0:03 Just after me and another English guy
0:04 decided like, "Oh, let's go for a swim."
0:07 Like immediately after eating, I know
0:08 where this is going.
0:11 >> The Italians were like, "No, no, no.
0:12 What's wrong with you?"
0:13 >> Oh, they're like calling it out.
0:16 >> You need to wait at least 2 or 3 hours. Like,
0:16 Like,
0:17 >> yeah. Yeah.
0:19 >> Oh my god. Like, did you get this as well?
0:20 well?
0:21 >> All the time. All the time.
0:24 >> Well, even now because um so I was in
0:25 Italy a couple of weeks ago cuz my wife
0:28 is Italian. We we go obviously all
0:31 summer spend time with their family with
0:33 her family and yeah it like have
0:35 something to eat and then it will be
0:39 like no one in the sea and then I'll be
0:42 like but I'm hot I've done this before
0:43 and everyone will be like don't do it
0:45 don't do it you've got kids like don't
0:47 leave don't leave them without a father
0:50 I've done this before I'm going in and
0:53 then uh I must admit sometimes like cuz
0:54 everyone's like looking at you I start
0:56 thinking oh my god am I actually going
1:03 Hello everybody and welcome back. Good
1:06 morning, good afternoon, good evening or
1:08 good night depending on where you are in
1:10 the world right now. I'm back in
1:13 Brussels and surprisingly sunny
1:16 Brussels. For how long, I'm not sure
1:18 because the weather has been all over
1:20 the place this week. But I'm hoping to
1:23 be able to get out, go for a stroll, get
1:26 my sunnies on, and uh yeah, listen to a
1:30 podcast. But anyway, enough about me. Of
1:32 course, we have another fantastic guest
1:35 on this week, and um he's there kind of
1:37 nodding along, sitting back, and ready
1:41 to get started. So, Martin, welcome.
1:43 >> Thank you, Louis. Thank you for that
1:45 intro. It is always a bit awkward that
1:46 bit where the other person's talking. I
1:49 just kind of nod and kind of think, "Oh,
1:51 Gwen's going to mention me." Uh, but
1:54 yeah, we've we've got past that now. So,
1:57 happy to hear it and happy to be here.
1:59 >> Onwards and upwards from here. >> Absolutely.
2:00 >> Absolutely.
2:03 >> So, I'm sure most people watching or
2:04 listening to this will already have seen
2:06 you and know a little bit about you, but
2:08 let's get straight into the
2:11 introduction. Who are you? What do you
2:13 do? Where are you from? and so on and so forth.
2:15 forth.
2:16 >> Yeah. You know what? So, I've done so
2:18 many of these podcasts over the years,
2:21 like on someone's podcast, and obviously
2:23 the first thing they do is ask you for
2:25 that introduction, and I always think,
2:27 why don't I prepare something? Because
2:28 when it comes to it, you're always like,
2:30 "Oh god, what am I going to say?" You
2:32 know, like you do something at work and
2:34 it's like the thing of like stand up and
2:36 introduce yourself. It's
2:38 >> so I should really plan this. I've done
2:40 this. I just make the same mistake every
2:42 single time. Um, so you always feel like
2:44 you have to start with your name, don't
2:45 you? So, my name is Martin. Um,
2:47 >> y start.
2:50 >> Yeah, I teach English as a foreign
2:51 language. I've been doing that for a
2:53 long time. I did the usual thing of,
2:56 well, I I moved abroad and then you kind
2:58 of think, right, I need to get a job and
3:02 then you end up teaching English. Um,
3:04 and so I lived in Italy for a long time.
3:07 I went there with a suitcase, one
3:12 suitcase in 2010. Came back in 2022
3:16 with a lorry, a wife, and a child. Um,
3:19 since added another child to that. Um,
3:20 >> great success.
3:23 >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um,
3:24 Um,
3:27 and yeah, so I have a podcast as well
3:29 called Rock and Roll English. I've been
3:30 in the online game quite a while now. I
3:32 think I'm one of like the OGs now, like
3:34 you know, original gangsters. cuz I
3:35 think it's only Loops English podcast
3:37 maybe who's been going along. So I've
3:40 been doing it since 2017
3:42 which to me doesn't feel like that long
3:44 ago but from what I understand in the
3:47 online space it is quite a long time.
3:48 >> It sounds like you were ahead of the
3:51 curve and this is now what seven eight
3:53 years ago. So congrats on the consistency.
3:54 consistency.
3:57 >> Yeah well I I was a bit more consistent
4:00 as you kind of yeah have kids and stuff
4:02 the consistency does kind of like go
4:05 down a bit. Um, but yes, so I've been
4:09 doing the podcast for a while now. Um,
4:11 and is that enough of an intro?
4:13 >> That's plenty. I can ask you lots of
4:15 follow-up questions. So,
4:17 >> first, you kind of fell into the same
4:20 situation that I think a lot of us fall
4:22 into in wanting to go abroad, thinking
4:24 like, oh, I'm going to travel the world,
4:26 but wait, I don't have any money. How
4:29 can I do that? So, then the backup plan
4:32 is often, I know, I'll teach English.
4:34 >> Absolutely. And uh I also did the same
4:36 thing when I moved to Seville. It was
4:38 like, well, I'll look for a job, but you
4:40 know, the easiest job to find is
4:43 probably teaching English. So in your
4:45 first weeks or months of teaching
4:48 English, what was it like? Did you get
4:50 any like impostor syndrome or anything?
4:54 >> Oh, do you? So when I started so I then
4:56 I since have done lots of different
4:59 qualifications and properly studied but
5:02 when I started I got a job in a school
5:05 in Rome teaching the Kalen method. Now I
5:07 don't know if you're familiar with that
5:09 >> rings a bell but I'm not sure exactly.
5:12 So it's a it's a weird kind of method of
5:15 like so basically I read a question and
5:19 say for example do you like sausages and
5:22 then I have to basically elicit the
5:23 answer from you and I say like yes I
5:25 like and you repeat like yes I like
5:27 sausages so it's like this parrot method
5:29 basically the student is a parrot and you're
5:30 you're
5:32 >> so I wouldn't even really call that
5:35 properly teach him. However, when
5:36 imposter syndrome, if anyone ever asked
5:38 me like a grammar question or anything,
5:41 my most embarrassing moment was
5:45 obviously I'm from Essex and when I
5:48 first moved abroad, I couldn't say the
5:50 th sound properly because I had a very
5:52 thick accent. I think it has kind of
5:55 gone a bit more neutral in recent years.
5:56 So, instead of the word mother, for
6:00 example, with like a mother, I would say mother.
6:01 mother.
6:04 And one of the words because it was
6:06 quite heavy on pronunciation this thing
6:10 was that word and I was saying mother
6:12 >> and this Italian person was saying
6:18 mother and I was going yeah uh mother
6:19 and then I remember mother and then he
6:21 went mother
6:25 and uh as as a joke but yeah so I was
6:26 there and I walked out of that lesson
6:28 thinking there's going to be a student
6:32 out walking around saying my mother and
6:35 I was like, "What am I doing?" It was it
6:35 was horrific.
6:40 >> But I mean, all accents are equal in
6:42 terms of being like valid. Of course,
6:44 you can speak like a Scott, you can
6:46 speak like a Welshman, you can speak
6:48 like you're from Essex. And I mean, I
6:50 think that's one of the beautiful things
6:52 about the United Kingdom that whenever
6:54 you teach students for a while,
6:56 sometimes they'll pick up your accent
6:59 and it's like, "Yes, come on."
7:02 >> Yeah. But also true, but I don't know
7:05 just that that one particular thing. So
7:06 So for example, when you teach students,
7:10 I'd imagine if you say the word bath,
7:11 how would you teach them how to say that?
7:12 that? >> Bath.
7:13 >> Bath. >> Exactly.
7:13 >> Exactly.
7:15 >> I'm going to have a bath.
7:18 >> Yeah. So that for me like that I
7:19 wouldn't think, oh my god, that sounds
7:20 horrible. Because that that's just like
7:22 you say the way people from the north
7:26 will say that word. Um
7:28 but the mother I I don't know. That was
7:31 that was a low point in my life.
7:33 I mean I did have a similar experience
7:35 in my first job because there were
7:38 certain classes which were focused on
7:40 identifying like minimal pairs and
7:43 similar sounds and all of the content
7:46 that was pre-prepared and we just had to
7:47 like deliver it
7:50 >> and they'd always make us say for
7:53 example sun
7:56 uh country and all of these like h
7:59 sounds rather than the
8:01 >> that we pronounce more in the orphan in
8:03 particular in Yorkshire like oh it's
8:06 proper sunny like sunny
8:07 >> whereas they would tell us to say it's
8:09 really sunny
8:11 >> like in a car I'm like no this is wrong
8:13 but I kind of had to
8:15 >> do it and change my accent and
8:17 neutralize it at the same time. >> Yeah.
8:18 >> Yeah.
8:21 >> Yeah. So I also have exactly this a
8:22 similar thing with minimal pairs and it
8:26 was three like I am as free as a bird
8:30 and three the number three and I could
8:32 not distinguish them at all and I was
8:37 saying to everyone okay free and free
8:39 and they were like that's just saying
8:41 the same thing and I was just like oh
8:43 god how am I going to get out of this
8:46 lesson alive? Um, yeah, some some bad
8:48 days at the start, but luckily, well, I
8:50 hope to think that I have become a much
8:52 better teacher since those days because
8:54 yeah, I had like no training there. It
8:57 was just literally thrown in the lion's
9:02 den and um yeah, but that was a long
9:04 time ago now. Luckily,
9:07 >> it was sink or swim and you swam by the
9:08 looks of it. And
9:12 >> I was sinking for a long time. Um,
9:13 just about survived. I think I was
9:15 unconscious for a while but then got
9:18 resuscitated when they picked me up on
9:19 the beach.
9:22 >> Exactly. You made it. And then um given
9:23 that you mentioned that you started your
9:26 podcast in 2017,
9:28 >> I remember that I had already started
9:30 listening to podcasts back then, but I
9:33 never crossed my mind to make my own one
9:36 until many many years later. Um, but
9:37 does that mean you're a kind of
9:40 techsavvy person that these ideas come
9:44 naturally or even business savvy?
9:47 >> I would say definitely not to both of
9:49 those questions and e even now kind of
9:52 like tech skills.
9:54 Well, when I see other people like say
9:56 my wife who doesn't terrible with
9:58 technology, I it does make me feel a bit
10:00 better, but I wouldn't say I'm techsavvy
10:02 at all. I keep things really really
10:06 simple. Um, and same as business, I just
10:08 kind of make things up as I go along.
10:11 But the reason I started a podcast there
10:13 was there's a few reasons. I think one
10:16 of the main inspirations
10:21 was um Rick Jacece. Now he
10:24 >> I I think I I might be wrong in saying
10:26 this, but I think he was like he made
10:29 the first podcast like he basically he
10:33 invented podcasts in the UK. He was like
10:36 the first well certainly the first name
10:38 to start a podcast and it was basically
10:40 him uh some other people Steven Merchant
10:44 and Cole Pilkington just talking rubbish
10:47 and then I kind of thought I could just
10:50 talk rubbish as well. Um and then I
10:52 noticed that Luke's English podcast
10:54 existed and he just talks a lot of
10:56 rubbish. Uh, and I don't mean that
10:58 that's not in a sort of like offensive
11:01 way. Just like has a chat and
11:03 >> rambles as I think he says. Yeah. And
11:04 then I thought, you know, I think I
11:06 think I could do that. And I was
11:08 actually trying to get some decent
11:11 listening material for my students. So I
11:12 thought, you know what, I'm just going
11:14 to make some of these. And I made the
11:16 first kind of like 10 episodes of my
11:19 podcast. I kind of just made for my
11:21 students and I just saved them as audio
11:24 files and used to send them by email to
11:25 my students.
11:27 And then I thought, right, okay, I'll
11:29 try and get a bit more serious here. And
11:31 then it started.
11:33 >> Per fact. I mean, that actually does
11:36 remind me that um in I don't know, 2018,
11:39 2019, I did send like audio files to
11:41 students uh telling them it was a
11:44 podcast, but it was never listed as a
11:46 podcast. And if only I'd have started
11:48 back then.
11:49 >> If only. But hey. >> Yeah.
11:50 >> Yeah.
11:53 And um given that you had this online
11:55 presence, does that mean that you
11:57 started teaching online classes before
12:00 the pandemic and before all of the
12:04 lockdown? Uh yes. Um however, I was
12:07 still working at a school in Italy. Um
12:09 so it was kind of like a side project,
12:11 but that it was kind of during the p
12:12 pandemic where I thought, well, okay,
12:15 I'm going to do this full-time now, I
12:18 think. Um but yeah, I was still running
12:21 online classes before that. I was quite
12:24 familiar with Zoom and breakout rooms uh
12:27 before the pandemic. Yeah.
12:30 >> Good times. Good times.
12:31 >> Yeah, indeed.
12:33 >> But um anyway, let's talk about the name
12:36 Rock and Roll English. Is that because
12:38 you're into rock and roll?
12:40 >> Again, a question I get a lot when I do
12:45 these things. Sorry. Um now um yeah
12:48 again few kind of things now again you
12:50 would think that you would think that
12:53 I'm into rock and roll and you know like
12:57 null Gallagher got a like Union Jack um
13:01 guitar but that is not the case really.
13:04 I have a friend who is a dentist and we
13:07 were out one night and we were talking
13:08 and someone said, "Oh, aren't you a
13:10 dentist?" And he said, "No, I'm a rock
13:12 and roll dentist." And I thought, "That
13:14 sounds so cool." And I was looking for a
13:17 name of my podcasts and you you often
13:20 get like um English with
13:23 Rob, English with Le.
13:26 >> Uh and I thought I maybe something a bit
13:28 more. So I just thought how about rock
13:30 and roll English and then basically went
13:33 with that. So, um, yeah. However, I like
13:36 to say now that on the podcast we do
13:38 talk about taboo subjects. So, it's kind
13:41 of the rock and roll spirit of like say
13:42 what you want, do what you want, be what
13:44 you want. That's why it's called rock
13:46 and roll English. That that I suppose
13:48 would be a more like philosophical
13:50 answer. But the reality is a friend said
13:52 she's a rock and roll dentist and I
13:55 thought that sounded cool. So, >> mate.
13:56 >> mate. >> Yeah.
13:57 >> Yeah. Exactly.
13:59 Exactly.
14:01 >> Awesome. Cool. Now, let's talk a little
14:04 bit more about Italy and about Sicily in
14:06 particular because before we started
14:08 recording, we were, you know, having a
14:10 bit of a chat, getting to know each
14:12 other, talking about things that we'll
14:14 later go on to talk about in a bit more
14:16 depth. But, um, I mentioned in passing
14:20 that I went to, uh, Palemo, uh, where I
14:23 did my Arasmus. Had a great time. It was
14:25 amazing. Didn't really improve my
14:27 Italian that much. Didn't really make
14:30 that many Italian friends.
14:32 But hey, it is what it is. But I was
14:35 unaware that you actually lived in
14:37 Palmo. I just knew that you used to live
14:41 in Italy. So yes. Um, why did you first
14:43 move to Palemo or did you first move to
14:47 Palemo? Um, what's Sicily story?
14:48 >> Yeah. Again, I haven't really got any
14:50 simple answers for you, have I? Because
14:52 it's not really a simple answer again.
14:56 So, um, where to start with this one? I
14:59 was working in investment banking in
15:01 London years and years ago and then I
15:04 thought this is not for me at all and so
15:05 I thought you know what I would like to
15:07 go and live in Italy a bit because my
15:10 grandparents were Italian but I didn't
15:12 as a child didn't speak any Italian um
15:14 and I always thought you know I'd like
15:17 to learn some Italian and I ended up
15:22 getting a job in a hostel in Palmo
15:24 >> and so I'd gone from working in an
15:27 investment bank on the left on Friday to
15:30 working in a hostel on the Monday. So it
15:30 was your
15:32 >> mom and dad must have been buzzing.
15:33 >> Oh yeah, they were they were over the
15:35 moon. So it was a bit of a career
15:36 change. So I I spent a little bit of
15:38 time in Pedmont
15:40 and then after a few months I moved to Rome.
15:41 Rome. >> Mhm.
15:42 >> Mhm.
15:45 >> And then when I was in Rome then after a
15:47 while I got a job for an Italian law
15:50 company. Um and they had an office in
15:52 Pedmont and said would you like to live
15:54 here? And because I already knew the
15:58 city, I thought, well, why not? Um, so I
16:01 did that. Um, because I was like
16:02 teaching English where I was doing
16:04 things with the lawyers and like
16:07 drafting emails and things like this. So
16:09 then I moved back to Pedmont for that
16:12 and then I got bored of that job. Got
16:14 another English teaching job.
16:16 >> So that's I think I answered your
16:18 question there, didn't I? Of why
16:19 Pedmont? Yeah, I think that was the
16:20 question, wasn't it? You know, you start
16:22 talking sometimes, don't you? And then
16:23 you're just talking rubbish for so long
16:25 you kind of think what was the question
16:26 again. No,
16:27 >> this is what I tell people. >> Exactly.
16:27 >> Exactly.
16:30 >> Yeah. For exams actually. But anyway,
16:31 yeah. So that's why
16:33 >> perfect. I mean a lot of the time
16:34 whenever I'm interviewing people
16:36 thinking of questions at the same time
16:38 I'm like kind of like okay got to listen
16:41 to pay attention but I've also got to
16:43 start thinking of my next question. So
16:45 then I'm like okay uh what's going on
16:46 isn't it? Yeah >> exactly.
16:48 >> exactly.
16:50 But with Talen, I remember that the city
16:52 is beautiful.
16:55 And of course, you've got a huge like
16:58 mountain just around it. I can't
16:59 remember the name.
17:02 >> Montego Montelino. Then you've got the port.
17:03 port.
17:05 >> The beaches in the city center don't
17:08 really exist, but you've got Mondello. >> Montlo,
17:09 >> Montlo,
17:12 >> which is just near the Palemo Football
17:14 Club Stadium
17:16 >> and kind of
17:17 >> kind of Yeah. Yeah, you have to go past
17:19 that from the city kind of go if you get
17:20 the bus you certainly go past the
17:22 stadium. Yeah,
17:24 >> exactly. But I mean I look back on that
17:27 time like really fondly that I had a
17:29 really good time obviously. I think I
17:32 moved there in February and the first
17:34 weekend we went to the beach and
17:37 actually went for a swim. So I was like
17:37 >> that is
17:39 >> I could get used to this. Of course it
17:42 wasn't boiling but it was like 20° in
17:45 February, quite humid as well. So, I was
17:47 like, "Wait, I've just come from England
17:49 where it's absolutely freezing and dark
17:53 at 3:00 and I've arrived here in Italy
17:56 eating pasta, pizza, gelato, and I've
17:59 just gone for a swim." So, huh, what's
18:02 not to like, right? Absolutely. That is
18:04 the exact reason why I always ask myself
18:08 what I'm doing back in the UK. Um, I
18:11 used to live in a house with a sea view.
18:14 Um, and like you said, I used to go, cuz
18:16 I lived that outside of the city, I used
18:19 to go to the beach 12 months a year. Not
18:22 not every day, but every month there
18:24 were some days like in January, in
18:26 February where, like you said, it's 20°,
18:29 you can go, obviously the water is cold,
18:31 but you can I was always the crazy
18:33 English person obviously like the
18:41 >> uh, things like this." Then like, you
18:43 know, I would go out with wet hair and
18:44 they would be like, "Oh my god, you're
18:46 going to get a cold. You're going to
18:48 die." I'd be like, "Don't worry about
18:51 it. I'm English. I'm all right."
18:54 But yeah, so I the weather especially,
18:56 the weather and the food, like two
18:57 things you mentioned there, things that
18:59 I miss a lot.
19:01 Um, so we'll get on to why you moved
19:04 back to the UK soon, but that just
19:06 reminded me that I remember we went to
19:10 some kind of like barbecue gathering and
19:13 it must have been in May or June and we
19:16 had a lot to eat and just after me and
19:19 another English guy decided like, "Oh,
19:20 let's go for a swim." Like immediately
19:21 after eating.
19:23 >> Oh, I know where this is going.
19:26 >> The Italians were like, "No, no, no.
19:27 What's wrong with you?"
19:29 >> Oh, they were like calling it out. wait
19:31 at least 2 or 3 hours like
19:32 >> Yeah. Yeah.
19:34 >> Oh my god. Like did you get this as well?
19:35 well?
19:37 >> All the time. All the time. Even now
19:39 because um so I was in Italy a couple of
19:42 weeks ago cuz my wife is Italian. We we
19:45 go obviously all summer spend time with
19:48 their family with her family and yeah
19:50 like have something to eat and then it
19:54 will be like no one in the sea and then
19:56 I'll be like but I'm hot. I've done this
19:58 before. And everyone be like, "Don't do
19:59 it. Don't do it. You've got kids." Like,
20:01 "Don't leave. Don't leave them without a
20:04 father." I've done this before. I'm
20:07 going in. And then uh I must admit
20:08 sometimes like cuz everyone's like
20:10 looking at you, I start thinking, "Oh my
20:12 god, am I actually going to die here?"
20:15 Um but luckily I haven't died so far. So
20:16 So far so good. Cuz that's the thing I
20:18 say. It's not even like you'll get a
20:22 stomach ache. It's you will die. It's like
20:25 like
20:27 so yeah, that's a really common thing.
20:29 >> I I didn't get it at the time and I was
20:31 I've just like you can see I'm crying a
20:33 little bit because I'm remembering that
20:35 moment of like a group of Italians with
20:38 their their head in their hands like no
20:40 don't do it. Don't go into the water.
20:43 You've just had a steak. Come on, chill out.
20:44 out.
20:47 >> Yeah, that is a really common thing.
20:49 But anyway, Palenmore. Um, what are the
20:51 things that you liked the most about
20:54 living in Palemo? Obviously, the food,
20:56 but what was it like and what were the
20:59 highlights of this long experience, this
21:02 big period of your life? You know, I
21:04 I've I say this to my wife regularly
21:07 that I feel
21:11 healthier and stronger in Italy and I
21:15 think it's because of the sun. um just
21:17 generally just in a better mood because
21:21 of that. So again, I used to go out for
21:24 example from like May or even before
21:28 that kind of like April to October
21:30 often before work I used to cycle to the
21:32 beach, have a swim, come home, have a shower,
21:33 shower,
21:35 >> and then go to work.
21:38 >> Now imagine that in comparison to waking
21:40 up, it's gray, it's cold, and it's
21:43 raining and you go to work. like there's
21:46 just there's just no comparison. Um, and
21:50 I I also felt that I could sleep less in
21:52 Italy. In the UK, I feel like I need to
21:54 sleep more because I think it's
21:57 something to do with the weather. Um,
22:00 so I I don't know, I just felt
22:03 healthier. And another thing is I was I
22:06 feel as if I was outdoors much more
22:08 whilst in the UK like even you know in
22:10 the summer you say to your friends, what
22:12 do you want to do? let's go to a pub and
22:14 then you're in like a dark dingy smelly
22:18 pub. Um whilst when I was in Italy like
22:20 you're always eating outside, drinking
22:25 outside and just generally outside. Um
22:28 so yeah those are the things and another
22:31 thing bit more practical thing here is
22:34 the cost of life um because in the UK
22:37 certainly near London it's everything is
22:40 so expensive whilst in Palmo especially
22:42 Italy is much cheaper everything is
22:44 cheaper than in the UK however the more
22:45 south you go
22:47 >> the cheaper you things are and you can't
22:50 really get more south than Sicily um so
22:53 like going out I remember near work
22:56 there was a place and a nice place to
22:59 sit outside and I used to get on a
23:01 Friday when they used to do it. Um,
23:04 pasta with like salmon and it was €3 for
23:08 like a whole plate of pasta. Um, now in
23:11 the UK that would probably be like 18 quid.
23:12 quid.
23:14 >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
23:16 >> exactly. I mean the cost of living like
23:18 obviously around London it's more
23:20 expensive than it is up north where I'm
23:23 from and the opposite happens of course
23:27 in Italy where if you go to Milan it's
23:30 going to be quite pricey and maybe in
23:31 Rome as well if you go to these like
23:34 touristy areas but like you when I was
23:38 in Pedmont I'd often go to university
23:41 and have a three course meal for I don't
23:45 know whether it was €3 or4 €4, but I'd
23:48 get there every day and have my starter,
23:51 my man, and my dessert and pay them in
23:53 like coins, which the fact that I could
23:56 pay them in coins was just like, what a
23:58 bargain. And then it was so filling. So,
24:00 you didn't really need to eat much else
24:03 for the rest of the day or before that.
24:05 So, it was like I can eat for four quid
24:06 a day
24:09 >> per week. That's what, like,
24:10 >> 20, 30 quid.
24:14 >> I know. Um, and because of that, it's
24:16 just I don't know. It's just like nice
24:17 like in the UK like now if you if you
24:19 want to go out and have something to eat
24:21 like well so I've got a wife, two
24:24 children, it's like nearly £100. Um so
24:26 you kind of think well I can't I can't
24:29 do this all the time whilst when so like
24:33 I said I was in Sicily recently um and
24:34 you just feel like you can just go out
24:36 not every day but certainly Friday and
24:38 Saturday Saturday night going out have
24:41 something to eat like standard if you do
24:43 that if you do that every Friday and
24:46 Saturday in the UK
24:48 >> then yeah you're going to be spending a
24:50 lot of money
24:52 >> correct. So, all right. Um, why did you
24:53 move back to the UK then?
24:55 >> Yeah. I should go get my wife and she
25:00 can tell you cuz it was more her um but
25:03 so well so she was of the opinion that
25:05 um it's better to raise children in the UK.
25:08 UK.
25:10 We we still often talk about this because
25:12 because
25:14 not really sure. And the idea was kind
25:16 of like we'll try, we'll go to the UK
25:18 cuz otherwise we would live with the doubt
25:19 doubt
25:20 >> and then if we don't like it, we'll move
25:23 back. I kind of get the feeling we don't
25:24 like it but we're just too lazy to move
25:27 back because it's too much effort. Um,
25:29 so no, there are like everywhere there
25:31 are pros and cons to everything. So
25:33 there are definitely some pros of living
25:36 in the UK and I think raising children
25:38 in the UK. However, there are also pros
25:41 and cons of exactly the same things in
25:43 Italy. Um,
25:46 >> so yeah, it's a tough one really.
25:49 >> We will see. I mean, I think it's nice
25:51 and it makes it easier to raise them
25:53 bilingually as well because if they've
25:56 spent time in both countries, then it
25:57 not all of the pressure and
25:59 responsibility falls on the parents
26:02 because if they were still in Sicily,
26:04 then I imagine they'd be speaking
26:06 Italian the vast majority of the time
26:09 and you'd be like the point of call, the
26:11 teacher for your children. So that's
26:14 maybe a little bit less pressure in that regard.
26:14 regard.
26:17 >> Yeah. Luckily the bilingual thing I mean
26:20 yeah being a parent I've had obviously
26:22 loads of problems. Everything I find
26:24 difficult. However luckily the thing
26:26 about language which is something before
26:27 I had children I honestly was losing
26:29 sleep about. I honestly couldn't sleep
26:31 at night thinking about it. So I thought
26:34 my daughter is at the time we only had a
26:35 daughter. I thought she's not going to
26:38 speak English because I was mainly
26:40 working and I thought she's not going to
26:41 see me as much and everyone's going to
26:43 be talking Italian. She's not going to
26:44 learn English and I honestly couldn't
26:47 sleep at night. Um, but luckily they
26:51 both speak English and Italian fine. Um,
26:54 which is I'm very happy about because
26:55 yeah, obvious if they didn't speak
26:56 Italian, they wouldn't be able to speak
26:57 to my wife's family. If they didn't
26:58 speak English, they wouldn't be able to
27:00 talk to my family. That would be a
27:02 nightmare. Um, however, that has been
27:05 zero problems. I could talk about all
27:06 the other things which have been given
27:09 us problems but luckily that is one
27:11 which hasn't and I know people in the UK
27:13 we know other Italians and they have had
27:15 problems. So it's one of those things as
27:17 like a parent you think it almost makes
27:19 you feel good when people have problems
27:20 because you think oh god at least it's
27:23 not me this time because we're having we
27:25 have problems with everything else but
27:26 sometimes you think oh thank god at
27:28 least it's not me. So yeah the language
27:31 thing luckily all good.
27:33 >> Okay. And is there a trick to that? Like
27:36 I've heard that usually like each parent
27:38 speaks in their own mother tongue and
27:40 that way it's easier.
27:42 >> Uh that that's what we do. I don't think we've
27:44 we've
27:45 we've always stuck to that. One parent,
27:47 one language. My wife always speaks
27:49 Italian. I always speak English. And
27:51 that's worked for us. But I I think
27:52 other people have tried the same which
27:55 doesn't and maybe hasn't worked. But um
27:57 that's what we've done and it's worked
27:59 and it flows nicely because if if we're
28:00 having dinner for example cuz my wife
28:02 understands English, I understand
28:04 Italian. So my say one of the children
28:05 will say something to my wife in Italian
28:07 and I will respond to that in English.
28:09 So it's not like it's not weird. Every
28:11 everyone always asks well how how do you
28:13 manage at dinner like you have to choose
28:17 a language like no it just flows
28:19 naturally and nicely which is which is
28:21 good. It would it would be weird like if
28:23 my wife spoke a different language that
28:26 I don't speak that would I suppose make
28:29 things more complicated because that
28:31 moment of like when you're all talking
28:32 it would it would be like what did you
28:36 just say? Um but luckily that that's not
28:38 the case for us.
28:40 >> Perfect. Now moving on from family,
28:43 let's talk about a topic that
28:46 >> brings us together and uh starting with
28:48 Palemore football club
28:51 >> because I remember when I was there I
28:53 went to a stadium two or three times
28:56 >> because it was peanuts. It was so cheap and
28:57 and
28:59 >> I can't remember how much I paid but it
29:01 was nothing and I wasn't working and I
29:03 didn't complain about the cost of living
29:06 or anything. But back then, Palma, I
29:08 think they'd just been sanctioned and
29:12 they had gone down to Sier or something
29:13 like that.
29:16 >> Um, first, were you and are you a Palmar fan?
29:18 fan?
29:20 >> I cuz I was, as I mentioned in our
29:24 pre-pod chat, so engulfed in English
29:28 football. I never really got that much
29:30 into Italian football. So when I lived
29:32 in Rome, I went there stud Olympigo a
29:35 few times to see like
29:38 um but not really. I've never really
29:40 been like really into it for example.
29:42 Like you kind of keep an eye out for
29:48 them. Um but not really to be honest. So
29:50 like I follow them on Instagram and I
29:52 talk to friends that are like Paladmore
29:54 fans but I wouldn't say that I'm really
29:56 up to date with what's going on. I know
29:58 they're in CB now. Mhm.
30:01 >> Um, but no, I'm not because I spend all
30:05 of my time listening to podcasts about
30:07 English football and watching English
30:10 football. So, I don't really have that
30:12 extra time to dedicate to uh Italian
30:14 football. I must admit I do find Italian
30:17 football quite boring as well. um that
30:20 like the football itself and the thing
30:22 which I think in England I think is what
30:27 makes football so good in England is
30:30 like the atmosphere in the stadiums and
30:33 like for example your team leadeds when
30:35 they were down I think in like did they
30:37 go to league one as well?
30:39 >> Yeah. Yeah. We're in one for two years.
30:41 Yeah. still get still getting like high
30:43 attendances whilst like if you go to
30:46 like the like which would say a in Italy
30:49 like the third division essentially you
30:52 you got like a man and his dog watching
30:56 that and that makes you haven't got that
30:59 electric atmosphere often like for
31:01 example away fans like it's a common
31:05 thing in the UK like even like in even
31:07 my local team Chelmstead City when I go
31:10 and watch them they're away fans that
31:13 come more away fans than go to like a
31:16 sele match in Italy sometimes.
31:19 >> Um and that like rivalry and that
31:22 electric atmosphere is just something I
31:24 think which makes English football
31:25 fantastic. Even if you're watching it on
31:28 TV as well, you just you can feel the
31:30 atmosphere. And in fact, Italians often
31:32 say like that's what when you it feels
31:34 like English fans almost like part of
31:38 the game that you're watching whilst
31:39 obviously when you we watch a big game
31:43 in Italy that's is that might happen but
31:45 for the majority of matches that's not
31:48 the case. Um so yeah, I'm not a massive
31:50 fan of Italian football but yeah I've
31:53 always kept an eye on it obviously. I
31:56 mean it is true that like in Italy for
31:59 example and in some teams in Spain uh
32:03 like there aren't as many dieh hard fans
32:05 or maybe there are a lot of fans which
32:07 will support I don't know the bigger
32:10 club instead of the local club. wink wink.
32:11 wink.
32:14 And then you look at uh the UK and
32:16 Germany in particular where you feel
32:19 that like football is for the fans and
32:21 that's why they've got this model of I
32:22 don't know what it's called but
32:26 basically fan groups own half of uh each
32:29 club. So then they're not allowed to
32:32 become I don't know mega rich states or
32:34 they're not allowed to go against what
32:36 the fans want and there is power from
32:40 the fans to keep football being a
32:43 popular sport where everybody
32:45 >> is allowed to go and they can afford to go.
32:46 go.
32:48 >> So something's not right there needs to
32:50 be fixed. I my theory I don't know if
32:54 this is true on this is that um because
32:57 I mean let's face it football well
32:59 certainly was originally supposed to be
33:01 a workingass sport okay I always say
33:06 it's for like workingass scum like me
33:09 like those I mean that's probably a bit
33:12 harsh to describe it like that but it is
33:15 kind of sort of like workingass people workingass
33:16 workingass
33:19 >> uh people sport um and in for example
33:22 let's use Pmore as an example okay so
33:24 they do have those dieh hard fans that
33:26 do go to every match in like the
33:28 quarterf as they say like the curve
33:31 let's say um however I've never spoken
33:34 to these people but the idea of them
33:36 going to watch when they were in like
33:41 going to watch like uh u away like so
33:44 they'd have to pay for flights for hotel
33:46 like that just would not they would not
33:49 be able to do that whilst in in the UK
33:51 obviously like well we've got like
33:53 minimum wage and stuff like that. Um and
33:55 so people going to football the people
33:57 that maybe do go home and away. So when
33:59 I used to do that for example I was in
34:02 my early 20ies I had like lots of
34:04 disposable income because didn't have
34:06 wife didn't have children things like
34:09 this and you're earning half decent
34:12 money so you can just spend it on
34:16 football. Um whilst if I compare that to
34:17 and maybe an Italian in the same
34:20 situation like early 20s probably be a
34:24 student um or like unemployed. So it's
34:28 just it it's not that easy to do that.
34:31 Um-i- which by the way is my theory of
34:34 why England fans are always so always
34:37 like the worst behaved because those
34:41 people that maybe
34:44 are not so well educated um use all
34:46 their money to go abroad and just get
34:49 drunk and smash places up and really do
34:52 our country proud.
34:54 >> It's not good. Whenever there is a World
34:57 Cup or Euros or anything, it's always
34:58 really nice to see
35:01 >> Irish fans or Scottish fans and Welsh
35:03 fans and they're all really really proud
35:06 and of course form part of uh the United
35:09 Kingdom, not Republic of Ireland, not
35:10 but um
35:12 >> it's like they're good vibes, friendly,
35:15 everybody gets along with them and then
35:18 it is so different when you compare it
35:20 to the typical English fans where
35:22 everybody knows what kind of people I'm
35:24 speaking about and they're always
35:26 looking for a fight.
35:27 >> Obviously, they're really, really drunk.
35:29 No problem with that. You can be drunk
35:30 and you can be very happy and friendly
35:31 as well,
35:34 >> but it's just, you know, you want to be
35:35 patriotic and proud when it comes to
35:37 football, but then this is
35:40 >> the dark side of the English national team.
35:41 team.
35:44 >> Absolutely. Um, yeah, it's it's horrible
35:47 when that happens. Um I I've been to
35:50 like so I remember so going like
35:53 European aways with Manchester United
35:55 and being with some people like you get
35:57 talking to people and then they start
35:58 doing things and you're like okay I'm
36:00 just going to try and just slowly get
36:04 away from you without without you
36:06 noticing cuz I am scared you might also
36:09 hit me. Um but yeah, that's that's
36:11 that's the not nice thing about
36:13 football. Even I don't know if you feel
36:15 the same when you tell people you like
36:16 football sometimes almost feel a bit
36:19 embarrassed because um
36:21 >> like it has got that kind of like oh
36:24 you're just some kind of like
36:26 >> some kind of scum. Yeah, especially I'm
36:28 English. I like football. Um I I
36:30 specifically remember once when I was in
36:33 Pedmont, an English girl actually had um
36:35 a boyfriend and you could see like
36:38 really sort of welldressed and I just
36:42 came like like Adidas top on and
36:46 >> jeans and um the so I think like she had
36:48 gone to the toilet and that I wasn't
36:50 just I wasn't the third wheel. It wasn't
36:52 them two plus me. There was a group of
36:54 people but I was quite good friends with
36:55 this girl. I thought I'll try and make
36:57 the effort to like make friends with her
37:00 new her new fella, let's say.
37:02 >> And um so I was talking and the
37:05 conversation was really dry and then I
37:06 thought, right, I'm going to have to
37:07 just throw this one out there, which I
37:09 don't like to do, but I just said like,
37:10 do you like football? Cuz if they say
37:12 yes to that question, it's like, oh,
37:14 thank God. And then you right, we can
37:16 just talk all night now. So I said, do
37:19 you like football? And he said, no, I
37:22 hate football. Um he said I just find it
37:25 like lots of people just like I can't
37:26 remember the specific words but sort of
37:28 said some sort of bad things and then he
37:30 said in fact I've never watched a full
37:32 football match in my life. What about
37:38 I mean there were some weekends where I
37:40 might watch like six games in a weekend
37:43 but I was like h you know just the odd
37:47 one or two I think. Uh
37:49 >> I mean I bet you were just like oh no
37:51 what are we going to speak about for the
37:52 rest of the night
37:54 >> because what those times when you do
37:56 when you say like do you like football
37:58 cuz you might have that thing it's a bit
37:59 awkward you don't know what to say to
38:00 someone but it's just like do you like
38:02 football and they say yes like they are
38:05 really into football it's just like bang
38:07 and then so they might even be from a
38:08 different country and then you can use
38:11 your championship manager knowledge um
38:14 oh yeah yeah like I remember talking to
38:15 someone from Romania once. She said,
38:17 "I'm from Klu." I Oh, yeah. Of course.
38:18 Yeah. Cluj played them in the Champions
38:21 League once. Yeah.
38:24 No, it is 100% something that like does
38:26 bring people together. I can think here
38:29 in Brussels that usually if I'm out
38:31 socializing and speaking to people that
38:34 I don't know that well or maybe we don't
38:36 have that much in common, but if they
38:38 like football and I like football as
38:40 well and usually we hang out at the
38:42 weekend, so then you're like, "Oh, have
38:43 you seen the result? what's going on?
38:45 Oh, how how are they doing in the table?
38:47 And so on.
38:49 >> There are no words to describe the
38:52 relief when someone says that. Um I
38:54 remember another example again quite
38:57 similar. Um this when I was living in
38:59 Rome and an ex-girlfriend, I was out
39:01 with her and her friend and her
39:04 boyfriend was from Monteneg Montenegro
39:06 and that weekend it was England
39:08 Montenegro and I thought brilliant. I
39:09 was like England Montenegro this
39:11 weekend. And he I hate football, not
39:13 interested. And I was like, "God, like
39:15 this weekend we're playing your country.
39:18 Like, what are the odds? I I thought we
39:20 could have a in-depth chat about like
39:23 players to watch out for. Uh, it's
39:25 horrible. What a night, man. Well, um,
39:27 we've only got a few more minutes, but
39:28 I'd like to touch on your favorite club,
39:30 which you did mention is Manchester
39:32 United. Um, that when you were growing
39:35 up, it was the glory days, you know, the
39:39 class of 92 as well. Um,
39:42 obviously I'm a leads fan, so I've been
39:43 through a pretty tough time over the
39:45 last 20 years as well. So, we can we can
39:48 be in that together at least. But, um,
39:50 what about the future of Manchester
39:52 United? How do you feel about it? Are
39:54 you optimistic in any way that you might
39:58 be able to bring back the glory days?
40:01 It's very difficult to
40:03 to certainly the glory days like because
40:06 like you said um when I if you make a
40:08 comparison with leads they've had a
40:12 really tough time because they were
40:15 like pushing like when I was like in
40:16 school and stuff like Champions League
40:18 semi-finals like near the top of the
40:22 league. Um, so yeah, if Manchester
40:24 United situation is not great, but if I
40:25 compare compared to Lee, that must have
40:30 been a real real heartache. But um,
40:31 yeah, it's difficult. It just looks like
40:33 the same mistakes are being made over
40:34 and over again. Got a new manager in,
40:36 he's got a new system, he gets his
40:38 players in, spends loads of money,
40:40 doesn't look like it's working. Things
40:41 have got to start changing pretty
40:43 quickly, otherwise he is going to he
40:45 won't be able to survive. And then a new
40:48 manager is going to come in and he's got
40:49 like specialist players like he's going
40:51 to change the formation and he's have to
40:53 get rid of these like wing backs and
40:57 like extra like number 10s. Um so it it
40:59 looks like we're just going round and
41:02 round in circles really and especially
41:04 at the top of the club when they're like
41:05 making decisions like you see every week
41:09 of like um people now are not allowed
41:11 food. They they like they have to bring
41:14 their own food and like they were like
41:15 making people redundant that were on
41:18 like 25 grand a year and then they said,
41:19 "Oh, because we're going to be out of
41:22 money." And then they go and spend like
41:24 250 million or whatever. It's just kind
41:25 of like
41:27 >> it doesn't sit well with people.
41:28 >> No, it doesn't sit well. But it's also
41:29 like if those are the people that are
41:31 making like the decisions. I mean these
41:33 decisions that I just mentioned are like
41:35 quite lowlevel things but if they're
41:38 making bigger decisions it's like do you
41:41 trust them to make the right decisions?
41:44 Um probably not. So I mean football goes
41:47 in cycles doesn't it? Um
41:50 and yeah you you've got to suffer as
41:52 well. It's part it's part of the beauty
41:54 of football though isn't it? um the
41:57 suffering. It means that you're going to
41:59 savor and rejoice and enjoy these
42:02 moments more when you do have success. I
42:05 know for sure if leads ever do
42:07 >> become a really successful club again in
42:10 the future because you've been down in
42:12 the doldrums and you've been >> absolutely
42:13 >> absolutely
42:15 >> in League One and the Championship and
42:18 through financial troubles as well. Then
42:22 if we do ever win a trophy or qualify
42:24 for European competitions, people will
42:26 absolutely love it. Like even last
42:28 season when we won the league, the
42:31 championship and got promoted, there was
42:34 a huge parade and hundreds of thousands
42:36 of people lining the streets all wearing
42:38 white and yellow and it's like you can
42:40 feel the passion.
42:42 >> This is the beauty of football. Yeah.
42:45 >> It's pushed to an extreme after you've
42:48 suffered a lot. Absolutely. Yeah. No,
42:51 this is the absolute beauty of football.
42:53 A few years ago, West Ham won a European
42:54 trophy for the first time. Like you can
42:58 just feel it like and seeing with
42:59 because West Ham in that final scored in
43:02 like the almost the 90th minute and you
43:03 can just see from the reaction of the
43:07 fans like and and like like I said, it's
43:09 almost that which is so great because
43:11 during COVID for example, football was
43:14 terrible, wasn't it? Um so that is what
43:19 makes football so brilliant. Um like the
43:22 fans and that in in English football is
43:24 something that I love one of the things
43:26 I love the most. Like for example like
43:29 fan chants in the UK like oh my god they
43:33 are so so good. Um I could spend all day
43:38 just watching fan chants on Instagram.
43:41 >> But yeah no brilliant. Now, on that
43:43 note, we have run out of time. I've got
43:46 to go, but you will be seeing us
43:48 together again in the future because uh
43:50 in a week or so, I'm going to be a
43:51 guest, I believe, on Rock and Roll
43:53 English. So, I'm looking forward to
43:56 that. And uh yeah, if you don't like
43:58 football, I apologize for the last 15
44:00 minutes, but um
44:02 >> I have tried to keep it general and talk
44:04 about like the instead of like going
44:06 into details about like what Beels Elsa
44:09 was like and what you think of him. Um,
44:12 so I have tried to keep it like general.
44:16 Um, so I hope that we manage to do that.
44:18 I reckon there'll be some people who
44:20 will have absolutely loved these last 15
44:22 minutes. And uh, if you are one of these
44:24 people, let us know in the comments and
44:27 maybe in the future we can do a football
44:30 special or do
44:32 >> a Premier League preview at the
44:33 beginning of every season or something
44:35 like that. The possibilities are endless.
44:36 endless.
44:38 >> Could talk about this all day. World Cup
44:39 next year as well. I'd like to do a
44:42 world a pre-World Cup pod. So, we could
44:43 definitely do that. Yeah,
44:46 >> I'm excited. I can't wait. Well, um,
44:48 it's been a pleasure. I look forward to
44:50 chatting again soon and uh, thank you
44:53 everybody for watching and, uh, lots of
44:54 love to everybody.
44:56 >> Thank you very much. See you soon. Bye-bye.
44:59 Bye-bye. [Music]
