This content explores the persistent and often overlooked evidence of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), suggesting a deeper, potentially non-human intelligence interacting with Earth, particularly around nuclear sites, and challenging conventional scientific and governmental narratives.
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They're not coming in from another star
system every other Tuesday. They're
they're present here.
There are handfuls of people doing weird
things here and there. Those people are
all over the place. Some of them I knew
when I was at NASA have come talked to
me and said, "Oh, yeah. I was
interested. I know something about this
or that."
>> Have you met anybody working on the
crafts themselves?
>> I've met people who've claimed to have
worked on them or seen them. So, yeah.
So the question I've had is why when we
had the NASA commission, why was there
no section on what astronauts have seen
in space?
I talked to Alan Bean. He was from
Apollo 12. He said that when he went up
to Skyab, they actually photographed a
red flashing light. Nobody puts lights
on satellites. First, you don't need
them, and second, it's more weight.
>> Also, satellites back then weren't doing
proximity operations. They were just
following predictable orbit. They
weren't changing orbits.
>> They weren't changing orbits either. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> They actually had a craft pull up
alongside of them in half their orbit.
And the cosminaut drew a picture of the
object. The story Musgrave, a shuttle
pilot, also talked about seeing things
like snakes. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> Things writhing around in space. Really? >> Yeah.
>> This is a phenomena that people have
seen for centuries. This case is going
back to the 1800s.
Balls of light coming out of the water,
hovering next to the ship, following the
ship, and then taking off into the clouds.
clouds.
And um that's why I think there's
probably bases underwater is your best bet.
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back to the show. Kevin Kuth, uh, this
is an absolute honor. It's been a long
time coming. Um, you're a physicist at
the University of Albany and and to me,
you are one of the few people who speaks
about UFOs in a really concrete,
hard-headed way. I think you're one of
the few people I know who are studying
how these crafts actually fly, how to
detect them. Um, and so I'm really
excited to have you. Thank you.
>> Well, then thank you so much for having
me. This is very exciting.
>> Oh, no. It's an absolute honor. And you
you have a a NASA background as well. I
I I want to know how you got into UFOs
to begin with because a lot of people
with your sort of credentials and
background uh think UFOs are a joke,
>> right? Yeah. I mean, I've I've always
been interested in in UFOs. I was 12
when Star Wars came out in 1977. And
during and during that time, I mean, it
was the same year Close Encounters: The
Third Kind came out. It was, you know, another
another
movie studios response to Star Wars that
came out in December. And I didn't I
didn't like it as much cuz there weren't
spaceships shooting each others with
lasers, right? So So as a 12-year-old,
that wasn't that exciting. But um but at
the same time, you know, there were TV
shows like In Search of with Leonard
Leonard Nemoy um and they would cover
UFO topics and that was on every night
like at 6:30 when we're eating dinner.
So So I watched that all the time. So
I've always been interested in them and um
um
and I think I wasn't so so this so I
went to graduate school in 1988. Um, I'm
grew up in Wisconsin and I moved out to
Montana to go to graduate school at
Montana State University in Bosezeman.
And our first week or two there, I had
just moved there. And um, there was a
cattle mutilation
>> where two cows were killed and
surgically manipulated. I don't have a
good word for what happened to them.
>> The blood was drained.
>> The blood was drained. The the the
sensory organs removed. the genitals
removed. One of them had like a core
sample. It had this cylindrical hole
punched through it. Just bizarre. I
mean, really bizarre. And the stand and
the people on the news were crazed about
this, right? Oh my god, there's, you
know, these two cows on this ranch were
killed. And there were UFO reports in
the county that night, hundreds of
reports. And um so the two stories were
that it was either aliens or Satanists.
And and and everybody's all got their
undies in a bundle over this, right? And
so, so we're at the physics department
and um some of us grad students are
talking about this and especially the
new graduate students, we've all just
moved there into a PhD program. So,
you're looking down the barrel of
spending five or six years of your life
at this place and we want what where did
what kind of place did we just move to
where cows are
>> murdered this way, right? This is really
bizarre. So, we're discussing this in
the hallway
>> and it was this heated discussion and I
remember I remember shouting at one
point, I don't know why aliens would do
it and I don't know how Satanists would
do it. I mean, it was that that level of
stupid discussion, right, that that
students would have and we were quite
loud and disturbed one of the professors
down the hall and he came out from his
office to find out what we're talking
about. He comes down the hall and we
tell him and I don't know if he was
trying to make us feel better cuz it was
the opposite, but he said, "Oh yeah,
yeah, this happens from time to time and
they'll investigate it and they won't
figure anything out and then everybody
will just forget about until it happens
again." And we're just like, "What?
That's even crazier than
than what we're already talking about."
And then he adds and he goes, "But you
know what's really strange? There are,
he goes, I have friends who work up at
Malmstrom Air Force Base and they have
problems with UFOs flying over the
nuclear missile sites and shutting down
nuclear missiles.
And you know, we listened politely and
when he walked away, we laughed our
asses off cuz this was the at the time
it was the silliest thing I thought I'd
ever heard. I mean, UFOs are shutting
down nuclear missiles and this isn't
>> everybody's not on red alert. I mean the
the the our our entire military should
be mobilized or something like that, right?
right?
>> So we just didn't believe it. We thought
this was just silly and it became kind
of a running joke. Anytime something
weird would happen at, you know, at
school or somebody's telling a story,
oh, this weird thing happened to me,
someone would invariably interject, but
you know what's really strange? UFOs are
shutting down nuclear missiles up in
Msrom Air Force. And we would all laugh,
right? This and so that was a running
joke for a whole year. And so now time
passes and um that was September of 1988
and he had said that it was ongoing. He
said they are doing this presently. Right.
Right. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And so now fast forward to
it was about 2015. So it's a couple
years before the New York Times article
and um I was teaching an astronomy
class. And we got to the point we're
talking about possibility of life
elsewhere. And some of the students
wanted me to comment on UFOs. I'm like,
well, I don't know anything about UFOs
and it's not certainly not science. This
is an astronomy class. So So I was just
poking around on the internet if there
is there anything reasonable I can
actually say other than the Drake
equation and the Fairmy paradox, right?
The two typical things that scientists
might talk about. And I was just poking
around at like 2 a.m. and I stumbled on
um Robert Hastings news um conference
from like 2010 where he had six people
on from the Air Force, various Air Force
positions. The first one was Robert Solace
Solace
talking about UFOs shutting down nuclear
missiles at Monstrom Air Force Base. And
I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I
heard about this in grad school. That
was a joke, right? And then I'm
listening to this. I'm like, that's is
not a joke.
>> Between September of ' 66
and March of ' 67,
we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity.
>> It's wild. Yeah. >> 30.
>> 30.
>> 30. That's pretty pretty insane.
>> Now, now what are you doing? He's
talking about events from 1966.
>> And I heard about it in 1988. And the
professor that told me in 1988 about
this was said that it is happening.
>> So this has been going on for 20 years
and no one's paying any attention to
this. I mean the army is still not the
military is still not mobilized and
worrying about this and I thought there
is something really wrong here.
>> And and I and I spent some time thinking
about it. I was up late that night
teaching class early, right? I didn't
barely slept. But I was thinking about
it and I thought, I mean, it's either
nonsense and the people who are in
charge of our nuclear missiles are
people who we shouldn't be trusting with
anything, or this is actually real,
which makes more sense considering the
amount of time that's involved, a
20-year time span, and um and nobody's
reacting to it, maybe because they all
think it's nonsense. And I thought,
"This is extremely dangerous. We're
going to get blindsided by something if
we're not careful." And I thought,
"Somebody ought to look into this." And
I thought, "I'm going to start looking
into this UFO business. What's all what
what is here? How real is this? How
possible is this?" And I so I so that's
when I started looking into it.
>> And I was and I had actually given a
talk in our department
like a year later after I looked into it
somewhat. I thought this is actually
really interesting. So I gave a talk in
our physics department about it, just an
informal talk and um and the room was
packed. I mean we I don't know how many
people can actually sit in that room but
it was well over the fire limit, right?
I mean we had people sitting
cross-legged right up to the front screen
screen
>> and um and I the talk went on there were
so many questions I talk of it for
almost 3 hours
>> and and most people just stayed for it
cuz everybody was really interested and
I thought yeah see this is interesting.
I mean this is an interesting problem
here and it's not that simple. And then
of course a year after that the New York
Times article comes out and um
>> and I thought well somebody has to be
somebody ought to study this and I
thought well shoot you just do it. >> Yeah
>> Yeah
>> I should do it.
>> And the nuclear link I could see that
being the perfect gateway for a rigorous
scientist like yourself because I think
science in the conventional sense has to
be repeatable. you need, you know, every
time you you drop this pen, it needs to
fall in sort of the same way for it to
be science, right?
>> And so I think the nuclear link is a
version of that with UFOs where UFOs
seem to show up across nuclear bases,
not only in the US, but all over the
world. And
>> yeah, and that's that's one thing that
worried me once I looked into it. I
thought, wow, this is happening in the
Soviet Union. This is happening in
France. This is happening in England. We
were talking before the show. I'm
wearing my American Alchemy Japan shirt,
which is paying homage to Leno, which is
a town next to their Fukushima
prefraracture, where they have they're
famous for their nuclear spill in 2011.
They have their civilian energy grid,
and UFOs were reported to show up there.
They have a whole museum dedicated to
UFOs. Vice did a documentary on them in
2022, and it's the town in Japan that's
obsessed with UFOs, and it's right next
to this nuclear. There was a Netflix
encounter episode I think episode 4
focused on that as well.
>> And Malmstrom where you mentioned that
is the site of
>> tons and tons of activity. You have Bob
Salace obviously in in ' 67 but before
that you had this this Echoflight
incident you know I think it was like
very it was 10 days before or something.
One was March 16th one was March 24th.
Then you have uh John Mills this retired
missile technician in the early 90s
seeing a bunch of UFOs there. You even
have an interview with this guy Chris
Langan, which say what you will about
the guy. He says he's has the highest IQ
in the world. He seems a little cocky to
me, but he's just offhand. He's saying
he's he's seen UFOs and he's seen them
around Malmstrom uh Air Force Base.
>> On the UFO thing, I was working for the
Forest Service not too far from
Malmstrom Air Force Base. One day I was
up there in a Forest Service pickup
truck at a certain campground and uh I
was there and suddenly I look up and I I
say suddenly it was just in the sky. I
became aware that it was up there and I
looked up there's this huge spheroidal
you know but elliptical not not a
perfect spheroid like a saucer that was
turned partially on its side >> right
>> right
>> and so it's just this recurring trope
from all these uncorrelated sources. uh
Robert Hastings who wrote the book UFOs
and Nukes got into this whole subject
because his father was actually uh um
working at Malmstrom base and um he was
learning radar theory from one of the
radar operators there. Uh Bob Hastings
was while he was a janitor. He was in
high school and the the radar operator
was like, "We're tracking some of these
unknowns. You should take a look." And
then that that was it for him. He was
hooked and he dedicated his life to
studying this stuff.
>> Crazy. Yeah.
>> So yeah.
>> Yeah. It's cool. I was maybe 3 years
ago. We were down in Louisiana visiting
my in-laws for for Marty Gro. And so
we're it was February and we're grill
outside grilling, right? And um and I
was grilling with my wife's uncle Matt
and he had his Air Force cap on and I
and I spotted Malmstrom Air Force Base
on his Air Force cap and I was like,
"Uncle Matt, you were at the air you
were in the Air Force and you were at
Mstrom. You were at Malmstrom." And he
goes, "Yeah, I was stationed in Malta."
I When were you there? And he goes, "Uh,
like 1971 through 74 or something like
that and early '7s." And I said, "Did
you ever hear anything about UFO
incursions at nuclear weapons sites?" He
goes, "Oh, that happened all the time.
These things would come in and shut down
the nuclear weapons." And he was going
on and on about this. I'm like, like
it's common knowledge. Yep.
>> Right. And how how is it Congress is
just finding out about this, right? And
my wife's uncle Matt has known this
since 1971. Th this is something to
worry about, right? And I was so
excited. I I I told him, "Okay, can you
tell my wife this because I'm tired of
being the only crazy person in
but but it was his response was amazing.
Oh yeah, this happened all the time."
And like like it's nothing, right? So on
the one hand, you have UFOs showing up
around our most important assets or
nuclear assets with people who are on
the PRP program who literally like they
have to report if they're on ibuprofen.
These are people who work at the nuclear
bases. They're the picture of mental
health and of sound mind and they all
see tic tac, saucers, orbs, you know,
shutting down nukes, >> right?
>> right?
>> There's that and then there's the idea
that the US government might have
saucers and hangers,
>> right? Do you think it's clear that this
is happening the nuclear thing? That's
that's clear.
>> Absolutely clear. Yeah.
>> Do you think the US government has
saucers and hangers and we have a an
active reverse engineering program for
nuts and bolts physical craft?
>> I think that's probably true. I've heard
this from enough people who've done that
kind of work for years now. That that's
probably the case. Yeah.
>> Have you met anybody working on the
crafts themselves?
>> I've met people who've claimed to have
worked on them or seen them. So, yeah.
Anybody that you can mention or
>> No, I shouldn't do that. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> These are these are whispers that you
get every note and I can't.
>> Did you Did you find them believable though?
though?
>> Yeah. Entirely believable. Yeah.
>> Really? Yeah.
>> No. You didn't sense any sort of deception?
deception?
>> No. No. One of the most believable
things I've heard is, "Well, have you
been able to figure anything out?" No,
we don't know. We don't know what
anything is or how anything works. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> That was my most And and I was like,
"All right, that makes sense." >> Interesting.
>> Interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's like um you know, giving an
iPhone to a a
just caveman or something
>> something like that. Yeah. >> Interesting.
>> Interesting.
>> I mean, it seem it seems like that the
tech any technologies they've got from
it are just, you know, surface level
type stuff. Oh, this is some interesting
material. What's it made of that that level?
level?
>> If if I were on the inside, I would
probably want somebody like you working
on this sort of thing.
>> I'd love to be working on this, but I
not not black work. I'd love to work on
this in the open.
>> Have you ever been contacted to do black
work? Uh, I had the opportunity to to
have clearance when I worked at NASA.
Okay. But but I turned it down
>> because you've always wanted to do
things in an open transparent way.
>> I'm a scientist and I want to and this
and one of the benefits of being a
scientist is we share information. We
work together. We cooperate.
>> Do you think that's
>> and and yeah, there's some competition,
but there's a lot of collaboration as
well. So, and that's very healthy.
>> Do you think that's part of what's held
back the legacy UFO program?
>> Back. If if it's held back at all, it's
because you've got 10 people closeted
working on one thing and they don't get
extra information that you might need to
get interesting ideas. You know, the
more people you have working on a
problem, the more diversity of ideas
you're going to get. And
>> do you think that there are certain
scientific things that you can't work on
in the kind of civil side, you know,
open world of of science without
receiving backlash?
Uh, UFOs is one of them. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. We There was some backlash
some backlash when we started working on
UFOs. There's You mentioned on Danny
Jones that you've had various friends
work on anti-gravity and receive sort of backlash,
backlash,
>> threatened threats and things like that.
Yeah. Too.
>> That's scary.
>> That's very strange. Yeah.
>> What do you think that is with the
anti-gravity stuff?
>> I really have no idea. Yeah, I mean I,
you know, you can jump to conclusions
and say, well, because somebody doesn't
want other people discovering things
that they know about and have control
over. I mean, you could jump to that
conclusion, but I don't I don't actually
know what the situation is. It's hard to tell.
tell.
>> Doesn't that feel like the base case
conclusion? Like if you if somebody's
getting threatened over discovering a
thing, um it would seem like there'd be
some group on the inside that would be
tracking people trying to discover a
thing that they're already aware of,
right? Yeah. Like that seems like the
AAMS razor easy explanation.
>> It leads to a whole sets of conspiracy
theories, right? And it's it's difficult.
difficult.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I've done deep dives on this
guy like Towns and Brown who I'm really
fascinated with and I I talk about him
probably too much for the audience
always laughs when I talk but but you
know I I find him to be really
interesting because I do think he made
breakthroughs in the world of gravity.
this sort of biffield brown effect which
is I think a very simple experiment but
I have you looked into that at all or
>> I haven't looked into that much at all.
Um you have limited time that's the
problem. I've got stacks of books I want
to read and things I want to look at and
yeah, it's just you have to pick and
choose. And I think that's and that's
one reason why you don't have academics
in the past looking into UFOs because
why spend time on something that's
probably nonsensical when you can be
sending spending time on something that
is probably going to pay off. And I
think that's the calculation most people
are doing. And
>> how do you
>> except at this point I don't think it's
nonsensical. So the payoff's huge,
right? How do you think UFOs fly?
>> I have no idea.
They're ve they're very strange in a lot
of ways. First, the um
how many ways are they strange, right?
The the speeds and accelerations are
crazy, right? The accelerations,
nobody's going to survive that. So, so
the equipment isn't going to survive it.
So, you know, in the Nimtt's case, we
estimated the acceleration of the tic
tac dropping from 28,000 ft to sea level
in 7 5 seconds or so, 78 seconds. Um,
it's about 5,000 gs of acceleration
minimum, right? 5,000 gs is insane. Um,
the new F-35 fighter jets, their wings
rip off at 13gs.
You know, most missile frames can't
handle more than a a missile can't
maneuver at more than about 35 gs.
>> And the frame isn't going to survive
more than 60 gs.
>> And now you got this tic tac thing
accelerating at 5,000 gs. That's not
possible. I mean, equipment won't
survive. So now this leads you to think
the only solutions there is you've got
to be playing with inertia somehow.
You've got to be playing with gravity
somehow. And um and so that leads you
down the path of general relativity and
warp drive and that way of thinking, right?
right?
>> Do you have a like a prop a propulsion
modality that you like best when it
comes to UFOs?
>> No, I don't exactly. So then but then
the other problem is power. If you look
at energies and power involved, the the
amount of power for that tic tac dropping
dropping
>> is something like um what was it was,00
gawatt of power.
You know, I remember Back to the Future
with Doc Doc Brown 2.1 gaww like that's
crazy or something. This thing was,00
gawatts, right? I mean, this is
>> And he had he had Mr. Fusion, which was
a nuclear fusion machine. Yeah,
>> that's right. Yeah. So, this is more
power. The tic tac maneuver took more
power than the total nuclear power
output of the United States.
>> Wow. Wow.
>> And that's in in that tic tac in the
size of an F-18. I mean, that's crazy.
And so now how do you how do you get
your head around that if so if if you so
let's say they're they can deal with
that kind of power for some reason they
have access to that much energy.
>> Um equipment is never 100% efficient.
>> So a 1% inefficiency. So you most of the
things we make are like 20% efficient at
best, right? Um so let's say they're
really good at this. They can get to 99%
efficiency. That means you've got a 1% inefficiency.
inefficiency.
>> 1% of 1,000 gawatt is like 11 gawatt of power.
power.
>> That means 11 gawatts of power is going
into waste heat.
>> The thing would melt. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So now what's happening? Are they really
more efficient than 99%.
>> Or is or do we have something wrong? Are
we looking at this the wrong way? Maybe
maybe they're not actually moving in
such a way that takes that much power.
>> Do you have any theories?
>> I don't exactly. Um warp drive is
certainly on the table. >> Um
>> Um
but that too is messy because we don't
how you know since there has been
theoretical work done on on warp bubbles
um we don't really know how these would
interact with matter. M so what does a
warp bubble do in an atmosphere? We
don't nobody's I don't think has looked
into that. So so these things are
strange because they don't appear to be
interacting with the atmosphere at all.
There's no sonic boom. There's no
fireball. There's no sound in many
cases. Uh the underwater UFOs you've
even got more in you should should be a
much more friction there. These things
are moving. The the one with the H the
the New Zealand frigot in 1980s, the HMNZS
HMNZS Southland
Southland
um had an 800 foot long USO
following it and it was about 2 km
behind the ship and actually closed that
distance in 25 seconds and went under
the ship and drained all the batteries,
drained all the power from the ship. And
you've got a clear the the width of this
thing was about 150 ft in diameter. This
cylindrical shaped object 800 ft long.
So it's so it's what is that? That's 30%
longer than the largest um Russian sub
to be the typhoon class subs, right? So
it's 30% bigger than a typhoon class
sub. The thing closes 2 km in 25
seconds. This gives you an acceleration
right underwater. The top speed is
something like 3,500 miles an hour and
you've got to clear a
a 150 foot diameter cylind 2 kmter long
cylinder of water out of the way to move
this thing in in 25 seconds. That water
had to go somewhere. Water is not
compressible. So you would have had
waves coming up. Um that did not happen.
So the thing is acting like it's not
even interacting with the water.
Yet we have sonar records from this
which mean sonar works by water
molecules banging on things right and
bouncing off. So the water molecules are
bouncing off this thing but it's not
interacting with the water all at the
same time.
How how this works I I have no
explanation for this. Um but that's the
data. Now now what do you do? Hm. Interesting.
Interesting.
>> It's really perplexing. These things are
really not simple.
>> Yeah. Do you think you've ever studied
UFO parts?
>> Um my colleague Matthew Shadalagus has
been working on studying debris from
purported crashes. >> Really?
>> Really?
>> Yeah. He has a new technique for um
detecting isotopes um using neutron
activation. So he's developed this
technique and he's been working on this
furiously for the last couple months.
>> Neutron activations, how is that
different than massspec?
>> Um mass spec basically you um typically
you you dissolve the material in nitric
acid and then you spray it into a into a
some electric plates that basically
electrify it, ionize it and then you
shoot it into a magnetic field that
constant magnetic field. The thing will
move in a circle. So, and the radius of
the circle depends on the mass. So, then
it hits a screen depending on where the
mass is. It changes where it hits the
screen. So, you can measure the mass of
the isotopes inside that spray.
>> And to back up for the audience, um,
isotope differences are are neutron
differences in various elements, right?
And if you were to find some, you know,
isotope ratios in a material that don't
occur naturally on Earth and don't
pattern match to asteroids, that would
be this really exciting, you know,
possible smoking gun that the thing is
actually a UFO,
>> right? Exactly. Well said. You
summarized that very nicely.
>> Yeah, that's exactly it. And um so
Matthew's technique is different. He
basically irradiates the material with neutrons
neutrons
>> with with a neutron source and basically
creates um
heavier isotopes with these extra neutrons
neutrons
>> and um and then he watches them decay
back into the the states that they were
in before. So he can tell what the
isotopes he created were and then he can
infer what they were originally um from
that. And it's non-destructive because
the they they decipate back to where
they were and u pretty quickly. And um
and you're not doing it to most of the
material. You're only you know rating
thousands of these atoms rather than as
compared to Avagadro's number for the
whole sample. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> It's so amazing. I mean Gary Nolan is
also doing this at Stanford. He's using
mass spec. Right. So, it's cool to see
that there's, you know, there are
updates even on his work as far as this
material analysis. The UFO Legacy
program has to be keeping tabs on what
you guys are doing. That would be my
guess, right? Right.
>> Like they you'd want some sort of like
civilian like the smartest like
>> Yeah. No, I know there there's there's
interest in Matthew's work. He's had
contact with government people and I
can't really talk about those details, but
but
>> Okay. Yeah. Are the parts like arts
parts? the the parts that
>> some of them were arts parts, but he's
he's had other ones, too. He's had
material from Ukraine and Israel and >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> all over. Yeah. >> Interesting.
>> Interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Arts parts. It's this rumor that
Art Bell, right, eventually ended up uh
in possession of this material that I
think was from the Was it from the Roswell?
Roswell?
>> Some of it's from Roswell. Yeah. Yeah.
and and the the material is in Artbell
obviously famous coast to coast you know
amazing you know um radio show host that
reached you know 10 to 15 million people
every night super into UFOs and it's so
interesting that he received these
pieces cuz he you know he's so
passionate about about this stuff I
believe one of the pieces is magnesium
bismouth is that right
>> because that's what Nolan has as well I
find this really interesting because in
the Biffield brown effect with towns and
brown the anti-gravity stuff. Uh, and I
don't have any I have a little bit of
evidence that Towns and Brown might have
been involved in one UFO crash
retrieval, but I don't have a ton I I
mostly have evidence that he figured out
an anti-gravity modality, but magnesium
uh or or bismouth rather is constantly
talked about bismouth because bismouth
is a high K dialectric. So it stores and
discharges easily a lot of
electromagnetism and that in the Bfield
Brown effect if you use that as the
insulator between the two you know
negative and positive electrodes that
creates greater thrust. So I find it
fascinating that you have UFO parts that
in the only anti-gra or in one of the
few anti-gravity experiments that we
know of it creates more thrust in that
experiment. That seems really
significant to me.
>> Right. And the other interesting thing
is it has nano layers of the bismouth
and magnesium. And the and one of one of
the two is paramagnetic and the other is diamagnetic.
diamagnetic.
>> So they're they have two very different
magnetic properties which is
interesting. So a lot of the
>> a lot of the modern work that we do in
material science on like spinronics and
this sort of thing basically is dealing
with magnetic spins with diamagnetic and
paramagnetic materials. So
>> so a lot of the new
breakthroughs in material science is
related to these types of materials as
well. So this is interesting stuff.
>> Super interesting. Yeah. Gary was also
when I was at his lab, he showed me some
of the pieces and he mentioned that some
of these materials might be able to
microsize wave guides for terraertz power.
power.
>> And um do do you think that that that's
true? Do you think these these pieces
are able to
>> I don't know if that's I don't know if
that's possible. Um that we haven't
looked into and I know I know what
Matthew's done, but I don't think that
he's looked into that at all. Yeah.
>> What is What is one scientific truth
that you adamantly believe that
conventional science disagrees with you
vehemently on? >> Oh,
that's a good question.
I don't know if I have an answer immediately.
immediately.
>> You you could dwell on it if you want
for in the movie if it comes up.
>> Have to think about that. What do I What
do I What interesting? Yeah. I don't
know if I don't know if there is one exactly.
exactly.
>> Yeah. At at NASA um you mentioned the
people there weren't really into UFOs.
How does how do you square that with all
this lore of them being interested in
UFOs and like I don't know, you have
like um Diana Pulka. Have you ever read
her book American Cosmic? So, she has
this NASA mission controller who
>> I guess now is public, but his his name
is Tim Taylor and you know, he's going
around taking them to crash UFO crash
sites, right?
>> Seems extremely read into any sort of
UFO program that exists. There are there
are individuals at NASA who are
interested and I and since I've gotten
interested and been vocal about it. I've
had some of the some of them I knew when
I was at NASA have come talked to me and
said, "Oh, yeah. I was interested or I
knew I know some something about this or that."
that." >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> It's so strange cuz it Yeah. You have
Hal Pavmeer who was a I think he was
both CIA and NASA showing up at Chris
Bledso's door when he starts to attract UFOs.
UFOs.
Very It's like
>> Yeah. Well, people come kind of come out
of the woodwork. You find that, you
know, I've now had a couple people from
NASA I find out were interested in
remote viewing.
>> Like I wouldn't have thought that when I
was back, you know, when I worked there, but
but >> interesting.
>> interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Is there a are they doing remote viewing
in a professional capacity at NASA?
>> No. Well, yeah. So, um I don't know. I
don't want to tell on anybody, but some
of this is actually public, but nobody's
noticed. Um, so one of the people at
NASA's actually written a CIA training
manual for remote viewing. >> Really?
>> Really? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But this this is public. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Well, then well, we can people are
going to look it up.
>> You can figure out who it is.
>> Okay. All right.
>> Yeah. No, I actually I was Yeah, there
was a Yeah. So, but
>> Well, if it's public, it's you know interesting.
interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> That's fascinating. and and that person
did it before they came to NASA but um
but are currently or were were NASA they
may be retired now at this point
>> you know they also have a patent I
believe in 2003 on a barrel-shaped
asymmetric capacitor and they put they
say this is we're talking about Thomas
Towns and Brown
>> Oh yeah that that works interesting too yeah
yeah
>> it's very interesting
>> yeah there are the these there are
handfuls of people doing weird things
here and there right and Yeah.
Yeah.
>> And they've been I mean you and once
I've gotten involved with this I find
that those people are all over the place
and they're all studying things they're
not supposed to be studying which is >> fascinating.
>> fascinating.
>> On that patent that NASA patent I
believe Larry Smallley has his name
there. He's a University of Alabama
Huntsville. He was the physics chair and
under him was a woman named Ning Lee and
she was studying I think like um superconductorbased
superconductorbased
you know kind of weight reduction uh via
kind of anti-gravity I think she she
called it gravitons gravity particles um
would would cause this sort of effect
and um you know obviously you know
groundbreaking sort of controversial
claim and she speaks about this at some
sort of MITER Corporation event and Um
then she kind of you know goes dark I
think gets a security clearance but um
her physics she leaves and starts a a
company I think it's called anti-gravity
LLC or something and then her physics
chair Larry Smallley goes and joins her
which I think is lends credence to the
actual findings right if your physics
chair leaves I mean you you know
academia it's kind of okay everybody's
got to be high conviction at that point
>> yeah yeah you don't leave a tenure position
position
>> and then his name shows up on a patent
around a barrel-shaped asymmetric
capacitor which is town that's talking
about towns and brown and I'm like,
okay, what's going on?
>> Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Wow.
>> I find it fascinating. Yeah. But but I
mean, one question I have is you have
all these names pop up, right? And you
have, you know, how put off is obviously
like seems so at the center of so much
UFO physics. Um, but a lot of a lot of
the names that pop up in in UFO science,
quote unquote, uh, it's almost like
there's some sort of like substructure
of a lot of these like mega structure.
So, like NASA, I don't like it. It
almost seems like what you're saying is
there is no official knowledge of UFOs,
but it's like these people within NASA
that are extremely interested in this
stuff. How do you square that with like
you watch the age of disclosure and it's
like we have a legacy program which you
would that implies some sort of like you
know it's like super wellcoordinated
>> it's a different thing. Yeah.
>> So like what I always try to ask I try
to press on people here is it like is
there a program or is it like this
hermetic substructure where people come
together via synchronicities
>> just people doing things. Um, I mean
that's one thing. I mean scientists
tinker as well, right? And
>> and NASA isn't like that now, but when I
worked there, which was the early 2000s,
you still were able to do like blue sky
research as as long as I mean the
requirement was you had to convince your
aerial lead that this was in line with
NASA's missions basically in some way.
And so um, so and that's all you had to
do. And so then you could go off and
work on this project, you know, now and
and while I worked there, near the end
of the time I worked there during the
Bush administration, they started what
they called full cost accounting
>> where they have to account for all their
costs. So now now you have to
>> you have to account for the time you
spend on things and and if you're doing
that, then you can't do this blue sky
research on this. You can't do this
little thing on the side. So for
example, one of the things that we tried
to do on the side, so this was a um
Yeah, why not? We we had I was
interested in the the Roswell um story
and I
was struck by the fact that the picture,
you know, Jesse Marcel says one thing
about the the material and and sounds
entirely believable and then they get
the picture the in the newspaper with
General Remy with what clearly is
aluminum foil and balsa wood.
>> Oh yeah.
>> In the picture. Right.
and and you look at that picture and you
think there's no way anybody's going to
mistake that for any kind of craft debris.
debris.
So, what was Jesse Marcel thinking or
did was it as they claimed that they
switched the debris, right? And I think
it's more likely they switched the debris.
debris.
>> Well, Marcel claimed that the the real
UFO debris was off to the side right
outside of the frame that frame. Did he
say that?
>> He did. Yeah. He also said he brought it
home and that his son played with it.
>> He showed it with his son. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So I think he would know the difference.
>> He would know the difference. Right. So
So then there there's the picture of
General Ramy and he's holding a memo
that you can see in the photographs and
it's a clearly a it's stamped top secret
and I thought what does that memo say?
And so me and one of my colleagues at
NASA because we were I was in the
intelligent systems division. So our job
was to develop um machine learning
systems to analyze data. And so we were
doing a lot of work with imagery.
>> I worked with Hubble imagery and I
thought why don't we try to clean why
don't we try cleaning up this memo and
see what the memo says. So we actually
wrote the algorithms to actually read
this this memo. and um wrote them, got
them running and we're testing them and
um and we just didn't have the computer
power at the time. It was a 300
megahertz machines we were working on
and you know we couldn't use the
supercomputer for this. So we couldn't
get away with that, right? We could get
away with using the 300 MHz computer um
on this and um it just didn't have the
computing power and computing time to do
it. So, so we abandoned the project, but
but we had thought that we were going to
we're going, you know, our little dream
was all right, we're going to figure out
what this memo says and then we're going
to publish it as a NASA publication,
>> but it's going to be buried as an example.
example.
>> We're going to the publication will be
on our methodology and our algorithm and
then we'll have several examples and one
of them will be the Roswell memo and
then we'll make it public and make it an
official NASA publication. Right? That
was that was our little plan, right?
Yeah, our sneaky plant and it just
didn't work out because we couldn't
analyze that imagery, right? But this is
but this is what's going on behind the
scenes and all at probably a lot of
government labs people are doing stuff
like this.
>> You know, maybe not trying to publish
it, but um
>> but trying to figure out if they can get
something to work or try something interesting.
interesting.
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So it's like there is this UFO truth.
You have, you know, various crashes. You
have various maybe scientific frameworks
that are not public. And then you just
have a bunch of vigilante efforts in
little pockets and compartment
attempting things. You got people, smart
people trying things. And it's, you
know, I think what, you know, John, I
think it was John Stewart said, "Isn't
it amazing what scientists can do when
no one makes them stop?"
>> And I think that's all it is. It's no
one's making them stop and they're
discovering things and
>> some of them are useful, some aren't.
And some are really interesting and some
they feel they probably shouldn't talk
about and I think that it's that simple. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> In a lot of cases.
>> Yeah. It's so fascinating. You have an
interesting theory around water worlds
and you know water being this really
important kind of variable for UFO
transport. Do you want to uh explain that?
that?
>> Yeah. Well, there's a few Yeah. So it
is why you know I was at one point
wondering why are there so many USOs
submerged unidentified submerged craft?
Why is that such a big thing? And um
and when you think about living on a
planet um living under an atmosphere is
horrible. It's difficult. The weather is
the the the conditions change every day.
They change daily, you know, hourly
even. And I'm coming down here from
Albany. I'm down here to Austin. You
know, we had snowstorm this weekend in
Albany or north of Albany. I drove
through it from Montreal to Albany
through a snowstorm. Um, and now we're
down here and it's what 60° and sunny
and I hope to go to the botanical garden
before I leave or something. Right. So,
the atmospheres are very
>> are quite variable. Now, now you go from
Earth to Venus. Venus's atmosphere has
100 times the air pressure on Earth,
>> which would crush you.
>> And it's about 800° Fahrenheit. And
actually, I was at NASA as when the
Mellan probe was doing radar mapping of
Venus. And we were perplexed because the
mountain tops
>> would become radar reflective
>> at times and then it would fade. And
then they would become reflective again
and fade. And we were like, what's going
on with this these mountain tops? And
realized they would become reflective
when the temperature would drop. So the
temperature would drop, the mountain
tops would become radar reflective. And
they realized what was happening is
vaporized lead and bismouth
was making was actually um making snowflakes.
snowflakes.
And so it was actually snowing leaden
bismouth snow on the mountain tops. I
mean, imagine what that would I can't
imagine what that would look like to
have metal snow. I want to go there and
actually see that. But that's what they
That's a cold day in hell, by the way,
>> when you've got metal snow raining on
the mountain tops.
>> So, that's what Venus's atmosphere is
like, right? And then you go to Mars,
and Mars has 1/100th
>> the atmospheric pressure of Earth. So,
you need a space suit and it's cold. You
know what? 100° below zero Fahrenheit,
something like that.
>> Colder than Antarctica temperatures. So
now, so now comparing Venus to Mars, the
temperature difference is is
a factor of 10,000
>> different. It's huge. And now you
consider a water world, water
is only liquid from 0° C to 100° C,
right? So you've got as long as you have
liquid water, you you are in that
temperature range. You're not going out
of it. And so it's much more stable
temperature- wise. The pressure varies
with depth dramatically. I mean,
atmospheric pressure varies with
atmospheric height as well, but but
because water is so much more dense,
it's much more dramatic. So, you can
control what pressure you like by
controlling the depth. And um
and water has such a high heat capacity,
the temperature doesn't change that
much. You don't have the temperature
fluctuations of water temperature that
you do in an air temperature.
So, it's a much more stable environment.
You're protected from solar radiation.
You're protected from ultraviolet rays.
You're protected from cosmic rays.
You're protected from, you know, small
meteorites at least. Um, it's and it's a
great place to hide electromagnetism.
Electromagnetic waves don't travel far
in water, so you can't see far. You
can't detect things with
electromagnetism very well. And which is
why we use sonar, right? And um so it's
a great place to hide. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> it's so there's every reason to go to
the water. Um
>> it's fascinating. So if you were like a
cardv three or four scale civilization
and you wanted to colonize a bunch of
other planets, water is the perfect
hideout spot. It's evidence. >> Water.
>> Water.
>> Yeah. Well, that's the other thing. So
you you only have you only have a couple
choices, right? So if you're going to go
col colonize another star system,
>> you've got to carry everything you need
to do it with you, right? So getting
already the traveling is hard. It's
going to be hard for anybody. Um but but
bringing everything you need to to build
up a base or some kind of settlement is
is going to be extra difficult. So So
you really have have a few options. And
um water worlds we now know are
relatively common. You know, we have
several water worlds in our in our solar
system. Mostly most of them are frozen
moons, icy surfaces, but there's oceans
underneath, right? So, you can either
you can either plan to colonize
you can either just plan to stay in your
spaceships, right? We're just going to
live in our spaceships. That's probably
the easiest thing to do, right? Um
or to colonize airless worlds like the
moon, which is no different than staying
in your spaceship. Um but then the other
option is to live on a planet. And if
you want to live on a planet to access
its resources, you're either going to go
with an airless world and stay in your
spaceship. Um, or the next most
reasonable choice would go to be to go
to water.
>> Yeah. And so it's it's also evidence, as
you said, of this kind of Goldilocks
temperature zone. I think water is
specifically unique as well because the
way that hydrogen and oxygen bond in an
H2O molecule is a perfect crystal
lattice structure. And so it's unique in
that the solid form of it is actually
less dense than the liquid form of it.
So you end up with, you know, these
worlds that don't flood because you end
up with a lot of lot of ice. Um, and so,
you know, that's fascinating as well.
And then I think that the final thing on
the UFO front is you're talking about
tons and tons of power. Uh, if you were
to theoretically break hydrogen and
oxygen bonds in H2O, you would get a ton
of power.
>> Yeah. Yeah, you can use water for for
storing energy that way.
>> Yeah. Or for fuel.
>> And then seas and you know seas have
dissolved minerals in them. So
>> you could I mean it's not a fast
process, but you can you could extract
any kind of mineral you want.
>> Any atom any atom you want you can
probably pull out of seawater. You know
whether you can do it fast enough to get
a substantial amount is really the
question. But so but that would be
easier than mining, right?
>> Do you think there are UFO bases in our
oceans? Tim Berschett recently said
there are five uh oceanic hot spots
across the world.
>> We have a higher propensity of sightings
around these five or six I believe deep
area deep water areas. And so to me it
just um it creates a um a question there.
there.
>> Do you think there are UFO bases?
>> I think that's probably that that's
probably the best bet. >> Really?
>> Really? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And you went to Catalina, right?
>> Went to Catalina. which is one of the
it's off the coast of Southern
California and a lot of people think
it's this UFO hotspot. There's a great
um book I think it's called under
underwater or undersea UFO base by
Preston Dennit, right?
>> And there's a ton of history in the
region. And so what did you find when
you went out there?
>> Yeah. Well, we we spent we spent 5 days
on a rooftop in Laguna Beach and
watching the skies and um
and it's all documented in the the movie
A Tear in the Sky. So um and the movie
best documents what the
the
basically how the mission progressed,
right? And so it's one of the first, you
know, universities supported
UFO data collection missions that that
we know of has happened. Right. So um so
there's a lot of excitement. There's a
lot of excitement in that movie and
that's real excitement, right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And um and we did see we did see some
interesting things that um and so here
comes some spoilers
and and so I'm going to spoil things
twice. So, so there's at one point
there's a bright light that's seen from
the team in Catalina Island which is
across the Catalina channel. We had two
two teams.
>> They spotted this bright light that was
moving um and they said it's too bright
to be a satellite. It's it's you know
going in this direction. So, we're we're
looking for it as well. So, we recorded
this object and um then it just abruptly
disappears and which is very strange.
And um and the problem with
documentaries is that yes, it takes a
long time to make a film, maybe a year
to two years in some cases. Um science
takes a lot longer.
>> We're a lot slower.
>> And um so the scientific study of what
the data we collected took a lot longer
and that got published just last year.
So our mission was what in 2021, tear in
the sky, I think came out in 2023,
something like that. And our scientific
paper on the mission came out just this summer.
summer.
>> Um, Matthew Shadagus was the first
author of that paper. And so we found
that that bright light was the space station.
station.
>> Um, why didn't we figure that out
earlier? The app we were using to track
satellites didn't take into account
daylight savings time.
>> A stupid mistake, right, that we
shouldn't have made. But
>> this is your first time doing this sort
of thing. And you make and and I
remember telling Matthew on our way,
>> the space station looks weird, by the
way. And it looks really like a UFO. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> And I remember telling Matthew on the
airplane, he you know, we were both
excited. Oh, this is going to be so much
fun. Think imagine what we can see. And
I said,
>> "Yeah, but the problem is we're just
what we're probably going to learn is
what not to do,
>> right?" And that's really what happened
that first mission. We learned how not
to do it.
>> Um, but Matthew is the one who figured
out it was the space station. and he put
it all together and he actually took the
pixel size on the camera
>> and then um knowing the altitude of the
space station figured out how big the
space station should be and he was
within one foot
>> of the side of the space size of the
space station. It's really a nice
analysis he does. We put it in the
appendex and
>> um and yeah something to be proud of the
fact that yeah we identified it to be
the space station and actually proved it
right. So, that's cool.
>> Um, another another event that happened
was these um one of the fleer cameras
was showing these objects dropping into
the sea and um and I was actually at the
time looking through night vision
goggles. This didn't end up in the movie
and people were too excited about the
fleer camera to hear me shouting about
the night. I was telling people, "Put on
your night vision goggles and look over
here." Um, but I saw something actually
drop and hit the water in infrared. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> Um,
>> Um,
>> you got that on video?
>> No. No. I was just looking through the
goggles watching for things. And um,
>> but it was through infrared.
>> It was in infrared. Yeah. And then then
um and I think they tried to simulate
this in the film, but it's not simulated
properly. They showed this thing
hovering. It wasn't It just dropped. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> But but the fleer cameras recorded
things dropping into the sea. And we um
>> So you think you saw a UFO? I don't know
what I saw actually but because but but
I was excited because it happened about
the same time the fleer camera was
showing things dropping but then we
figured out later that the fleer camera
was actually malfunctioning and that's
and that's a failure mode of the flare
cameras. We actually talked to the
engineers who worked on something.
>> Yeah, these things falling down is
actually a failure mode.
>> Oh, so maybe it was an issue with the camera.
camera.
>> So, so the flare camera recording we had
was not something dropping into the sea.
Um, I don't know what I saw and probably
will never know because you can't has to
be reproducible, right? You have to be
able to see it again and try different things.
things.
>> Is there a best sensor modality if
you're trying to spot UFOs?
>> I think as many sensors as you can
>> is there one say you had to pick one and
you had to you know what what would you pick?
pick?
>> If I picked one, I would try. That's tough.
tough.
I think I would go with a fleer camera
is a good choice for a few reasons. One,
you get a visual record of the object.
It's not a very good visual record
because it's going to be blurry because
it's infrared.
>> I've heard people complain, "Oh, the
Navy produces all these in these blurry
photos of UFOs." Well, they're infrared
images. What do you expect? I've heard
scientists say this, and you want to
slap them upside the head and say, "What
did you think was going to happen?"
>> And so, you know, but the other benefit
of is for with a flare camera is you can
measure the temperature of the object. M
>> because you're picking up infrared um
emissions, right? So those
>> that black body infrared spectrum
actually gives you the temperature of
the object. So
>> where where white hot comes from.
>> Yeah. So now so so not only do you get a
visual record of the object, but you get
its temperature too, which is which is
in you get extra pieces of information
for that. So for that reason, I probably
would choose a fleer camera. Is there a
sighting or a crash that you rank as
highest conviction as far as your
analysis of it that like you you are
convinced that this happened? >> Oh,
I would have to say
the most convincing one is one of the
most hard to believe ones. It's um JAL
Airlines 6 JAL 1628.
>> It was a Japan Airlines cargo flight
piloted by Captain Kenju Teruchi. This
is the sketch Tuchi drew of what he says
he saw at his window that night. And
this Japanese television graphic is
based on his description.
>> This is just a small space ship. We can see
see
big. This one is size is
carrier. to mother ships
>> and I and I remember I remember that
being on the nightly news. I remember
watching it was on NBC
Tom Broka Connie Chung. I remember that
being on the news and being holy [ __ ]
there's giant aircraft carriers sized
walnutshaped UFO followed that Japanese
Airlines for 45 minutes across Alaska.
>> Wild give us the whole sequence.
>> Yeah. So they've got So the
Japanese airlines they it's a it's not a
passenger jet. It's a 747. They are
transporting Boule Nuvo. Yep. They got
wine in the back. Let the skeptics
rejoice. No, the pilots were not drunk
on Ballet Nuvo. That's just a silly thing.
thing.
>> They're just transporting it.
>> Yeah, they're just transporting it. And
they're flying across Alaska. And and
first I I don't remember all the events.
Several things happened. They actually
saw several UFOs. First, these
rectangular things show up in front of
the ship and have these lights that go
up and down shining light into the
cockpit. And the the pilots could feel
the heat from the light of these objects
and they're like scanning or you know
like that kind of behavior. Um, and they
follow in front of the plane for some
time and then um, and then this giant walnut-shaped
walnut-shaped
object shows up that's something like
4747s in length. Right? So, this thing's
the thing's the size of an aircraft
carrier. And the the pilot said that
when it was in front of the plane, he
couldn't see anything but the craft.
It's it's it's that big. So, it's
unmistakable. I mean, and he's screaming
at air traffic control,
you know, what do I do about this? And
they're not picking it up on radar. And
so, um, it was later found that military
heightf finding radar was picking it up.
And so that radar actually that those
radar records actually got collected.
And um, and so this walnutshaped craft
basically follow the 747 for about 45
minutes. stayed about seven kilometers
away, but it would go from one side of
the plane to the other. It was bouncing
around from one side to the other. And
um and we analyzed its
speed and acceleration just crudely
based on the description of what it was
doing. So it would go so at one point it
would be at like 1:00 and then the next
sweep of the radar, which is about 12
seconds or so, would be would be at 6:00. And so we were using those
6:00. And so we were using those that information to estimate speeds and
that information to estimate speeds and accelerations. Um Daniel Kumbbe another
accelerations. Um Daniel Kumbbe another um physicist from the Neils Boore
um physicist from the Neils Boore Institute actually took the radar. I
Institute actually took the radar. I didn't I didn't know that we could get
didn't I didn't know that we could get our hands on the radar measurements when
our hands on the radar measurements when we published that paper. But he actually
we published that paper. But he actually got the radar data and he analyzed that.
got the radar data and he analyzed that. He was analyzing the jumps and he found
He was analyzing the jumps and he found that the object was accelerating at took
that the object was accelerating at took several dumps jumps different
several dumps jumps different accelerations at different times. But
accelerations at different times. But there were three three of them were the
there were three three of them were the accelerations were greater than 9,000
accelerations were greater than 9,000 gs.
gs. One of them was like 11,000 gs. And the
One of them was like 11,000 gs. And the top speed he estimated to be 250,000 m
top speed he estimated to be 250,000 m an hour.
an hour. And at 250,000 mph, you can get to the
And at 250,000 mph, you can get to the moon in 54 minutes.
moon in 54 minutes. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> That's That's not a joke. You got so
>> That's That's not a joke. You got so you've got something the size of an
you've got something the size of an aircraft carrier that could get to the
aircraft carrier that could get to the moon in less than an hour, right? That's
moon in less than an hour, right? That's basically what you you're dealing with
basically what you you're dealing with here. So that's and we have and we have
here. So that's and we have and we have the radar data from that.
the radar data from that. >> We have the radar data.
>> We have the radar data. >> You have the radar data.
>> You have the radar data. >> That's amazing. I didn't know that.
>> That's amazing. I didn't know that. >> That's amazing. Yeah. John Callahan, who
>> That's amazing. Yeah. John Callahan, who was the FAA
was the FAA chief of accidents and investigations,
chief of accidents and investigations, actually reviewed the case and then
actually reviewed the case and then Reagan, President Reagan's scientific
Reagan, President Reagan's scientific team and the CIA showed up and they
team and the CIA showed up and they wanted all the data.
wanted all the data. >> No way.
>> No way. >> And so they came to collect the data.
>> And so they came to collect the data. Callahan copied it and put it in a box
Callahan copied it and put it in a box that he just put under his desk.
that he just put under his desk. And so he had a copy of it and he didn't
And so he had a copy of it and he didn't turn that over. So they got
turn that over. So they got >> And that's public now.
>> And that's public now. >> And now that's public.
>> And now that's public. >> He held on to it for like 20 years and
>> He held on to it for like 20 years and then when he retired he made it public.
then when he retired he made it public. >> Good for him.
>> Good for him. >> Yeah. He's a hero, right? That's
>> Yeah. He's a hero, right? That's amazing.
amazing. >> Yeah. But he said so when he was in the
>> Yeah. But he said so when he was in the meeting with Reagan's scientific team,
meeting with Reagan's scientific team, they were all excited. They said, "We've
they were all excited. They said, "We've never had 45 minutes of radar data from
never had 45 minutes of radar data from one of these things before."
one of these things before." >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> And so um so that exists, but but from
>> And so um so that exists, but but from that radar data, it's accelerating at
that radar data, it's accelerating at 10,000 gs, 250,000 miles an hour. And
10,000 gs, 250,000 miles an hour. And and you can actually see the position of
and you can actually see the position of the plane on the radar. The one point
the plane on the radar. The one point where the plane actually does a 360 to
where the plane actually does a 360 to try to shake this thing. You can
try to shake this thing. You can actually see that on the radar. So the
actually see that on the radar. So the radar is working.
radar is working. >> Is the Are the pilots still alive?
>> Is the Are the pilots still alive? >> Yeah, I think so.
>> Yeah, I think so. >> I want to get in touch with that.
>> I want to get in touch with that. >> Yeah, I'm sure. The one pilot was
>> Yeah, I'm sure. The one pilot was actually fired.
actually fired. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> For going public with it. He was fired
>> For going public with it. He was fired and had his license taken away and then
and had his license taken away and then several years later was reinstated.
several years later was reinstated. >> That's horrible that he was fired for
>> That's horrible that he was fired for that. I mean, what what are you supposed
that. I mean, what what are you supposed you experienced something that kind of
you experienced something that kind of traumatic and and world view shattering?
traumatic and and world view shattering? >> What what would lying about it be a
>> What what would lying about it be a better thing to do for flight safety?
better thing to do for flight safety? >> You're right.
>> You're right. >> I think that's really the question.
>> I think that's really the question. >> Just ignore it. Yeah. That's crazy. Um
>> Just ignore it. Yeah. That's crazy. Um fascinating. You know, there's that
fascinating. You know, there's that audio recording of Steven Spielberg, I
audio recording of Steven Spielberg, I believe, talking about his trip to the
believe, talking about his trip to the White House and um they do a viewing of
White House and um they do a viewing of ET.
ET. >> Oh, right. I've heard this. Yes. And
>> Oh, right. I've heard this. Yes. And Reagan says, uh, you know, a lot of you
Reagan says, uh, you know, a lot of you in this room know that everything on
in this room know that everything on that screen there that you just watched
that screen there that you just watched is true.
is true. >> And he just stood up and he looked
>> And he just stood up and he looked around the room almost like he was doing
around the room almost like he was doing a headcount. And he said, I want to
a headcount. And he said, I want to thank you for bringing ET to the White
thank you for bringing ET to the White House. We really enjoyed your movie. And
House. We really enjoyed your movie. And then he looked around the room and he
then he looked around the room and he said, "And there are a number of people
said, "And there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on
in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true." And he
that screen is absolutely true." And he said it without smiling. Um um but he
said it without smiling. Um um but he but but but he he said that and
but but but he he said that and everybody laughed by the way the whole
everybody laughed by the way the whole room laughed because he presented it
room laughed because he presented it like a joke but he wasn't smiling as he
like a joke but he wasn't smiling as he said it
said it >> and so pretty interesting right
>> and so pretty interesting right >> that's interesting right
>> that's interesting right >> yeah well that's fascinating that people
>> yeah well that's fascinating that people from his scientific team I mean it
from his scientific team I mean it sounds like they were pretty aware of
sounds like they were pretty aware of this to to say oh we've we've never had
this to to say oh we've we've never had 45 minutes but it's like that implies
45 minutes but it's like that implies okay you're sitting on maybe you know
okay you're sitting on maybe you know shorter clips of UFOs
shorter clips of UFOs >> yeah they've got something That's
>> yeah they've got something That's something. Yeah. I mean, Alaska is a hot
something. Yeah. I mean, Alaska is a hot spot historically uh as well. I believe
spot historically uh as well. I believe um Nathan Twining, who's head of air
um Nathan Twining, who's head of air material command, responsible for all
material command, responsible for all aircraft development of the Air Force,
aircraft development of the Air Force, wrote the famous Twining memo in 1947
wrote the famous Twining memo in 1947 saying UFOs are not vision visionary nor
saying UFOs are not vision visionary nor fictitious, right?
fictitious, right? >> Um he he uh I believe they had like an
>> Um he he uh I believe they had like an observation program going on in Alaska.
observation program going on in Alaska. And then just recently you had it was
And then just recently you had it was this weird sequence of events, but in
this weird sequence of events, but in 2020, early 2023, you had the Chinese
2020, early 2023, you had the Chinese spy balloon.
spy balloon. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> And then right after that, you had this
>> And then right after that, you had this bizarre, you know, these things seem to
bizarre, you know, these things seem to show up and like jam, you know, the
show up and like jam, you know, the radars of these F-22s. And one of them
radars of these F-22s. And one of them specifically was in Alaska
specifically was in Alaska >> and crashed. And I've heard some very
>> and crashed. And I've heard some very strange things around this specific
strange things around this specific craft. I've heard things like it
craft. I've heard things like it reassembled itself and was seen in the
reassembled itself and was seen in the air over Canada. I' bizarre.
air over Canada. I' bizarre. >> I've heard something I've heard
