0:01 work that they've done, you know,
0:03 leading up to it that allows them to
0:05 pull it off. So, for me, it's those kind
0:09 of simple processes that most traders,
0:11 well, a lot of traders I will say that
0:13 I've worked with didn't have those
0:16 basics dialed in. Um, and they were
0:18 trying to solve bigger challenges in
0:20 deviating from their trading plan. But
0:21 until they had actually put those
0:23 building blocks in place, it's hard to
0:25 solve the bigger issue. um because
0:26 you're missing some of the kind of
0:28 standard basic stuff that will carry
0:30 that will be the foundation for high performance.
0:31 performance.
0:33 >> We do have a special guest today uh one
0:37 of my favorite performance coaches
0:41 Kred Shehi Kelly. Uh she is with us and
0:43 we want to have a chat about a
0:46 conversation that is really passionate.
0:49 It's a passion for me. the psychology of
0:51 the you know high performance and peak
0:53 performance is really as I mentioned in
0:56 the chat room is a topic that I'm very
0:59 uh you know interested in how to be in
1:01 always the peak performance mindset
1:03 physically you know mentally and
1:05 everything uh I recently started a
1:08 podcast I had a conversation with yeah
1:10 Peter I had a conversation with one of
1:11 the Canadian Olympians
1:13 >> and it was a great conversation because
1:16 Olympians are also very similar to us
1:18 they are always in the simulator and
1:20 then they have to perform and no matter
1:22 how good they are in a simulator when
1:25 they perform everything matters in that
1:27 uh you know live trading or live action
1:29 that they're doing. But mentally is a
1:32 very very big uh challenge because a lot
1:37 of time high performance you know they
1:40 uh really connect their identity to
1:42 their performance and that can be a
1:44 really big impact on their uh mental
1:46 health and obviously later physical.
1:48 That's why a lot of high performers are
1:51 you know struggling with addiction like
1:52 Diego Maradona was one of the best
1:54 football player in the world you know
1:57 what happens and you know and it just
1:59 doesn't have to be even in world class
2:02 it could be anywhere like my father
2:03 struggled with addiction I struggled
2:05 with addiction and I'm a high performer
2:08 as well and if I can't perform the
2:12 failure or just not uh you know
2:14 disappointing myself puts a lot of
2:16 pressure on my mind and obviously on my
2:18 body. So, we want to have that
2:20 conversation with Cred. Cred, thanks for
2:22 joining us. You're looking great.
2:23 >> Thanks for having me, Andrew. I'm super
2:24 excited for this conversation,
2:26 especially in light of your new podcast.
2:28 Um, yeah, I'm really interested to hear
2:31 your thoughts on it. So, um, yeah,
2:32 thanks for having me on today.
2:35 >> Yeah, of course. Tell us about I think
2:36 the topic that you wanted to
2:38 conversation again, we're very
2:39 interested is about the high
2:41 performance, you know, identity. How
2:43 they connect this, you know, with their
2:46 and how can control themselves Exactly.
2:48 So what I wanted to talk about was
2:50 something that I've seen trip up a lot
2:51 of traders. So it's, you know, in
2:53 relation to high performance, it applies
2:55 to high performers from every domain,
2:56 but specifically it's something that I
2:58 keep seeing again and again with traders
3:01 and traders also who've not quite
3:03 reached the high performance level. You
3:05 know, they might not be making the money
3:07 that they want to make yet, but they
3:09 have the mindset of setting out to be
3:11 exceptional, but there's something that
3:13 often trips this type of person up. And
3:15 so I thought it'd be helpful to discuss
3:18 it and help people to understand if it's
3:19 something that a trap that they're
3:21 falling into. So and then what they can
3:23 do to overcome it. So I'm calling it the
3:25 high performer trap. And it's basically
3:28 exactly as you said where you attach
3:31 your identity to um the identity of the
3:33 high performer rather than just focusing
3:36 on the tasks that will take you to the
3:38 level of high performance. So it's kind
3:40 of like a difference between attaching
3:43 your ego from the psychology sense to an
3:46 identity and just focusing on tasks. And
3:48 so to make this a bit more concrete,
3:50 what I see happen is that a lot of
3:52 traders overestimate the complexity
3:54 required to reach a high performance
3:57 level, but they underestimate the amount
3:59 of consistency required. So, it's
4:01 actually really more about doing the
4:04 boring consistent tasks repeatedly and
4:06 sticking to that for the long haul more
4:09 so than trying to, you know, have really
4:11 complex strategies or have one thing
4:13 that I see a lot of people try and rely
4:16 on is tech that helps them uh, you know,
4:18 measure their heart rate variability or
4:20 all of these different kind of tech
4:22 things that feed into high performance.
4:24 But if you don't have the basics right
4:25 and if you're not kind of covering those
4:27 bases and just doing those things
4:30 consistently, all of those additional um
4:32 resources for high performance won't
4:35 really do anything. So I guess what I'd
4:37 love to open up the conversation with
4:39 you about is just understanding
4:40 especially because you're you know high
4:43 performing in trading business and in um
4:45 you know in your sporting like mountain
4:47 climbing all of that. What's your take
4:50 on the that idea of the boring
4:52 consistent things just done repeatedly
4:53 over time? The stuff that doesn't really
4:55 light up anyone's identity or ego but
4:58 just requires grit. Um would you find
5:00 that that's something that you've had to
5:02 do in each of those domains in order to
5:03 reach high performance or what would
5:04 your take on it be
5:08 >> for trading? Uh one thing that uh for
5:10 for me trading is that is really I'm
5:13 enjoying this video game nature of day
5:15 trading. It's like sol solving a puzzle.
5:17 I wake up every morning and sometimes
5:20 when I miss trading is I'm sad that I
5:22 cannot come to play a video game. It's
5:26 really a game has been a game gamified
5:28 activity for me. Of course, money is uh
5:30 important. Not anymore. At the
5:32 beginning, it was not, but for me like
5:34 $5,000 up and down in the in during that
5:35 day doesn't really change my life. But
5:38 I'm super excited to come to trade
5:40 because I think it's really fun. I made
5:43 it really fun for me like video game and
5:45 of course the community like I love to
5:46 come and see the you know thousand
5:49 members that we have they're all friends
5:51 um and this is a conversation that I had
5:54 with the Olympian uh that I had in
5:56 Canada and she said she's also a coach
5:58 now she's retired and she said that you
6:00 have to make it like a game rather than
6:02 a competition and you have to just enjoy
6:06 the process of uh you know this uh you
6:10 know playing every single day. um for
6:12 for climbing that you mentioned that I
6:15 think high altitude climbing is you know
6:18 a high performance task but again the
6:21 climbers the mountaineers over time they
6:23 know that the expedition every single
6:25 day is fun is not about the summit it's
6:27 about the journey is about the views
6:29 about meeting new people about going to
6:31 cool places in the world rather than
6:33 just being on the summit and that summit photo
6:34 photo
6:36 >> so it's focusing on the process like
6:39 enjoying the process of what you have to
6:41 do daily in order to achieve the
6:43 outcome. Um, yeah, that that makes a lot
6:45 of sense. And one thing that I've seen
6:48 with traders particularly is that often
6:49 people come into trading when they've
6:51 been successful in other areas. So,
6:52 they've had, you know, a corporate
6:53 career and then they want to transition
6:55 out of that into trading. They want more
6:57 autonomy, whatever it is, or they've
7:00 come from maybe the military or sales or
7:02 whatever it is. And what it takes to be
7:05 successful in those arenas is different
7:06 to what it takes to be successful in
7:10 trading. Because in many arenas, the
7:11 harder you work, the more effort you put
7:13 in, the more time on the clock, you
7:16 know, the better that or the higher your
7:18 performance will be and the better
7:19 results you'll get. But in trading, it's
7:23 not necessarily about um doing all of
7:25 the things or working 24/7, being at the
7:27 markets 247,
7:29 um reading all the books, all of that.
7:31 It's about being strategic in how you
7:32 operate. They're working smarter instead
7:35 of harder. And so what I see that trips
7:36 people up with this high performer trap
7:40 is that they they work really hard, but
7:41 they're working on the wrong things. And
7:43 so they're not actually being efficient
7:45 with their time and their energy. And
7:47 then that feeds into if they're not
7:48 seeing progress because of that, it
7:50 feeds into a sense of failing or not
7:52 being enough. Um, and actually the fix
7:54 is to understand that trading is an
7:56 entity unto itself and what's required
7:58 to be successful. and trading is
8:00 slightly different to what's required to
8:02 be successful in those other arenas. And
8:04 so it really is about figuring out the
8:06 simple straightforward things that you
8:08 just need to do repeatedly over time in
8:10 order to be successful and releasing
8:13 yourself from that attachment to wanting
8:16 to be seen as a high performer or um you
8:19 know trying to outwork everybody else so
8:21 that you can get the results that you
8:23 want. I don't know if you see that as
8:25 well with traders or how does that land
8:26 with you?
8:28 >> Yeah, I do. I you know as you mentioned
8:30 that there's a lot of high performers
8:32 are actually being attracted to trading
8:35 because it's it's a challenge. It's a
8:36 challenge and usually you know in our
8:39 community I've seen you know thousands
8:41 of our members in person and they're
8:43 coming to Vancouver you've seen them and
8:44 [clears throat] they're all successful
8:47 in other fields doctors businessmen you
8:49 know entrepreneurs and you know
8:51 mid-career people and they all you know
8:54 come to that however there is one big
8:56 difference that uh they will be shocked
8:59 most of them is that in business in
9:02 career in other fields your success
9:04 depends on external
9:07 interactions, other people, colleagues,
9:10 bosses, you know, employees, but in
9:12 trading is all you and you have to
9:14 accept all the decision. And that's
9:16 usually the thing that people, you know,
9:17 get shocked. Like we have the military
9:19 people Mike and John I mean when they
9:21 are in a battle it's a group work the
9:23 orders that come from the top and you
9:24 know logistics and everything but in
9:27 trading Mike have to make the decision
9:30 himself and has to carry the
9:31 consequences himself and that's
9:33 something that it takes some time for
9:36 them to adjust. Uh another thing is that
9:39 uh they have to accept that the market
9:42 is unpredictable and the mistakes that
9:44 they're making is not the losses that
9:46 they're having is not because of the
9:47 mistakes that they're taking
9:50 necessarily. A lot of time a very good
9:53 system have 50% you know losses and it's
9:57 just nature of the probability um and
9:58 that they struggle a lot. I had one
10:00 trader that he was air traffic
10:02 controller and then he said I'm coming
10:06 after 25 years mindset of no mistake.
10:09 Mistake means disaster and he just
10:10 couldn't figure out this fact that the
10:13 market is random and 50% of the time
10:15 you're wrong. You're you're a loss but
10:17 that doesn't mean that you are wrong.
10:18 >> Exactly. I think that's one of the
10:20 biggest uh challenges that I see with
10:22 traders is that inability to accept a
10:24 loss. And again it comes back to that
10:26 identity. If you've developed your whole
10:28 identity over your whole life of being
10:30 someone who succeeds in sport, who
10:33 succeeds in you know school, college,
10:34 whatever career you have before you come
10:37 to trading and then suddenly you have to
10:39 accept losses and completely switch your
10:41 thinking and understand that that's part
10:43 of the game and you know that's how you
10:44 ultimately reach success. It's a very
10:47 hard mindset shift to make. So what I
10:49 always recommend to people who might be
10:51 struggling with this, you know, high
10:53 achiever in one area and then moving
10:55 into an area where that just that
10:57 framework doesn't hold anymore.
10:59 Something that or some simple tasks that
11:01 people can do to focus more on the
11:03 execution of the actions that are going
11:05 to lead to high performance are just
11:07 really simple things like tracking your
11:11 sleep, um raising your physical,
11:12 emotional, and mental state before you
11:14 go into the market. So, you already kind
11:15 of are checking in with yourself and
11:18 have an idea of what state you're in
11:20 psychologically before you enter the
11:22 market. And sometimes you can catch if
11:23 you're not feeling right for whatever
11:25 reason, um it might prevent you from
11:28 making big mistakes or deviating from
11:30 your plan in that session. Other things
11:34 are just refining your review. So, a lot
11:36 of high achievers and people who are
11:37 really striving to be that high
11:39 performance trader, something that they
11:40 do is they make a really complex
11:42 post-trading review process and then
11:44 it's so complex and there's so much data
11:46 in it that they actually just don't do
11:48 it. They don't track it because it's
11:49 overwhelming. So, they set out with
11:51 great intentions, but then they don't
11:53 actually track the data over time and so
11:55 the review is kind of meaningless for
11:57 them. So really slimming that down,
11:59 making it super simple and then tracking
12:01 the data religiously every single day
12:03 until you start to see patterns in, you
12:07 know, um how your emotions are impacting
12:10 your execution of your trades. Um maybe
12:11 the exact part of the trade that you
12:13 need to focus on from a psychology
12:15 perspective. Maybe it's jumping out of
12:17 trades too soon or not taking A+ setups
12:19 and then just laser focusing in on that.
12:22 So these simple kind of repetitive tasks
12:24 are the things that actually over time
12:26 give you real insight into how you're
12:28 trading into your own performance and
12:31 allow you to see where you can intervene
12:33 then to get the biggest uplift in your
12:35 performance. So it's usually the simple
12:38 things done repeatedly over time that
12:39 will actually lift everything across the
12:42 board. It's the same with athletes like
12:43 you know I've worked with a lot of elite
12:46 sports teams and it's say the kicker on
12:48 a rugby team staying back after practice
12:50 just kicking and kicking and doing it
12:52 themselves repeatedly in order to
12:55 improve that skill. It's a boring task.
12:56 It's not something that anyone is giving
12:58 them credit for. But then when they go
13:00 into a championship match and it's the
13:03 deciding factor if they win the game or
13:04 not, you know, comes down to a final
13:06 kick and they can pull it off. it's
13:08 because of all that boring consistent
13:10 work that they've done, you know,
13:12 leading up to it that allows them to
13:14 pull it off. So, for me, it's those kind
13:17 of simple processes that most traders,
13:20 well, a lot of traders I will say that
13:22 I've worked with didn't have those
13:24 basics dialed in. Um, and they were
13:26 trying to solve bigger challenges in
13:29 deviating from their trading plan. But
13:30 until they had actually put those
13:32 building blocks in place, it's hard to
13:33 solve the bigger issue. um because
13:34 you're missing some of the kind of
13:37 standard basic stuff that will carry
13:38 that will be the foundation for high performance.
13:40 performance.
13:43 >> What do what do you suggest uh tracking?
13:45 Like I started after I got an Apple
13:48 Watch, I started tracking my uh sleep
13:52 and uh it's how fast it's I'm so
13:55 fascinated how
13:56 bad I'm sleeping after I started
13:59 tracking it. And uh I haven't done much
14:02 to improve it but just tracking it it's
14:04 in back of my mind that you got to
14:06 improve the sleep like you know I I
14:08 thought I'm sleeping like 8 n hours but
14:10 I'm actually sleeping in average 6 hours
14:12 and for someone like me that I'm very
14:14 active this is really bad and then I
14:17 realized that the you know the nights
14:19 that I'm sleeping longer I'm actually
14:21 performing better in trading and in
14:24 running. Another thing that you know I
14:25 had a conversation with this Olympian
14:26 and she said something really
14:29 fascinating. She said that the re there
14:30 are research that if you are a little
14:34 bit uh dehydrated your cognitive ability
14:37 is down 10%. And they have measured it
14:39 and I didn't know that like uh even the
14:43 water like proper hydration
14:45 impacts the cognitive ability and
14:47 trading is all about finding puzzles and
14:50 cognitive ability. How do you what are
14:53 they you think they should track and how
14:55 they make this correlation because it's
14:56 also really hard to make the correlation.
14:57 correlation.
14:59 >> So I love that you're saying that
15:00 they're the exact kind of things that
15:02 I'm talking about and that hydration one
15:06 is so important. So um I think sleep and
15:08 sleep hydration like your physical
15:11 well-being um is probably paramount and
15:12 people maybe you know if you're an
15:14 athlete that makes sense because
15:16 obviously it's a physical uh game. It's
15:18 a physical execution of skill. Um, but
15:21 in trading it's equally as important and
15:23 I think sleep is the absolute most
15:24 critical one. So if somebody comes and
15:26 they want to work on confidence or they
15:28 say I'm jumping out of trades too soon,
15:30 but they're sleeping like five six hours
15:32 a night. Usually that's where we'll
15:35 start working first because um it's
15:36 interesting that you say 6 hours. I'm
15:38 going to butcher the explanation of
15:39 this, but there's two different studies
15:41 that basically combine together suggests
15:44 that if you get only six hours or less
15:47 uh sleep a night repeatedly, um over
15:50 time, I think it's about over about
15:52 a week or slightly longer, maybe it was
15:54 10 days, you actually start operating as
15:56 if you're um impaired as if you were
15:59 under the influence of alcohol. So I,
16:01 you know, it's a bit more uh I'm not
16:04 really explaining that precisely, but it
16:06 is in research and I've looked it up
16:07 because it's it's something that I've
16:08 looked into. So basically, if you're
16:10 sleeping six hours or less a night over
16:13 a long period of time, it's like you're,
16:16 you know, um over the driving limit for
16:17 alcohol and you're actually getting in
16:19 front of your computer screen and you're
16:21 executing trades and you're risking
16:24 money under that level of um cognitive
16:27 stress. So that's why it's not just a
16:29 nice to have well-being side of things
16:31 to say sleep is really important. It's
16:33 actually critical for you to be able to
16:34 execute cognitively at the level that
16:36 you need to. And the same with the
16:40 hydration. So um at a more complex level
16:41 there's an exercise that I do with
16:43 traders when I start working with them
16:45 onetoone um or my course actually and
16:47 they they map out all of the different
16:49 factors that impact performance in any
16:51 way under different headings. So under
16:53 the physical heading, under the
16:55 psychology, you know, mental, emotional
16:57 heading, um tactical skill, and then
16:59 lifestyle. And so in lifestyle, we'd be
17:02 putting things like hydration, um sleep,
17:04 even downtime, you know, all of these
17:06 different things that if you were doing
17:08 all of these things optimally would
17:10 produce peak trading performance, but
17:12 that's a little bit of a complex um
17:14 exercise. So even as a quick takeaway,
17:16 what I would recommend as an absolute
17:18 baseline for everyone to track would be
17:19 your hours of sleep the night before you
17:21 trade and do it in a in a spreadsheet.
17:23 Like so I mean boring actually tracking
17:26 the data every day. Um the amount of
17:28 sleep that you got last night, the your
17:30 physical rating out of 10. So let's say
17:31 you've you're suffering with I don't
17:33 know a cold or something. Your physical
17:35 rating is probably going to be lower. Um
17:38 your mental so your mental sharpness out
17:40 of 10 and your emotional state out of
17:42 10. And then you give yourself an
17:44 average as well, you know, of all of
17:46 those out of 10. And if you're already
17:48 seeing that for whatever reason you're
17:50 four out of 10 that day, that's a strong
17:52 indicator that maybe you should sit out
17:53 of trading that day. You should sit out
17:56 of the market. Um or let's say that
17:58 you're good physically and mentally, but
18:00 emotionally you're a two and you know
18:03 that your tendency is to revenge trade
18:05 or um go past your daily loss limit when
18:06 you're feeling emotionally triggered,
18:08 then you'll know to watch out for that
18:11 when you're trading. So, I would track
18:14 those things and then something simple
18:16 like a performance goal. Um, we've
18:18 talked about this a lot of times. So,
18:20 setting a goal that's focused on the
18:22 execution of your plan rather than the
18:25 outcome. So, it could be 80% or more of
18:28 all trades taken fit my setup criteria
18:32 from my um trade book. And just tracking
18:33 those simple things like just those
18:36 things. So, one key performance goal,
18:39 sleep, and that PEM's rating every
18:41 single day religiously. Over time,
18:42 you'll start to see a pattern. So, if
18:44 you're somebody that doesn't get enough
18:45 sleep, you'll likely see that on the
18:48 nights that you know you got, say, 6
18:52 hours or less that you tend to um take
18:54 setups that don't fit your criteria. And
18:56 you'll start to see correlations in the
18:59 data. So it's even those like few
19:00 factors if you were to track them over
19:03 time that will help you to identify
19:04 exactly what's happening in your trading
19:06 and why. And so in that situation
19:08 someone might come and say I've got a
19:10 big problem on the psychology side of
19:12 things. You know I just can't I'm not
19:13 I'm being impatient. I can't wait for my
19:15 setups to appear. I'm jumping into
19:18 trades that aren't quality trades. But
19:20 the solution will be sleep. So rather
19:22 than doing anything on affirmations or
19:24 visualization or anything like that, the
19:26 first protocol will be to address the
19:29 sleep. So that's how that you know
19:32 brings us back to that idea of the high
19:33 performer trap and trying to make
19:36 everything complex and thinking that the
19:38 solution is always some complex solution
19:40 that requires a lot of time and effort.
19:42 Sometimes it's actually just going back
19:44 to basics, getting the sleep, tracking
19:46 the pens, tracking the performance goal
19:49 and and that alone can shift things so
19:51 that you find that if you get more
19:53 sleep, you're taking more quality setups
19:54 and then obviously over time you're
19:56 going to be more profitable.
20:01 >> Yeah. I mean uh it's uh even even the
20:04 overeating is a consequence of lack of
20:07 asleep or a lot of other you know not
20:08 recovering properly because of the
20:10 cortisol level in the body and the body
20:12 you know always in the stress modes and
20:14 uh it's really fascinating it's really
20:16 easy to track uh especially with the you
20:18 know this technology like Apple watch
20:20 orings and stuff is really I love my
20:22 Apple watch it's really nice beautiful
20:24 performance and it can do track and
20:25 everything and it's quite accurate
20:27 actually when I was in Nepal and I was
20:30 going through the higher elevation is
20:32 really accurately was tracking my uh
20:35 oxygen level and breathing noises that I
20:36 had. So in the higher elevation I was
20:38 fascinating that how can you get my
20:40 breathing in my Apple Watch I don't know
20:42 how they do that but you know as I was
20:44 going through the elevation 5,000 6,000
20:45 meter it was telling me that your
20:47 breathing is going higher and higher
20:48 because your body is under stress for
20:51 oxygen is really nice to do that. you
20:53 did have a program or some sort of a
20:56 package if if I'm not mistaken that how
20:59 people track it and did you have that
21:00 did you have something
21:03 >> it's so it's part of my um so I have a a
21:05 signature program so it's my system it's
21:08 my methodology of how I help people um
21:10 execute their trades better so you know
21:11 the biggest challenge psychology side of
21:13 things is people not doing what they
21:15 know they should be doing so I have a go
21:17 deep to level up your trading is my
21:19 system that takes people right through
21:21 all of the
21:24 uh tasks and you know exercises to focus
21:26 on in order to build really strong
21:28 psychological resilience in the markets
21:30 and execute your trades. So that that
21:32 exercise that I'm talking about and that
21:33 tracking thing is part of it. They're
21:35 actually the first two modules is
21:38 focused fully on doing a whole audit of
21:39 all of the things that impact your
21:42 performance like you know down to sleep
21:45 down to um you know having a social life
21:47 whatever it is that that fills you up
21:50 with uh energy and helps you execute
21:52 better in the market. There's that
21:53 exercise and then we go into really
21:55 in-depth goal setting and part of that
21:57 is actually setting up a tracking system
21:59 for yourself. So, it's really not, you
22:01 know, you're talking about really, um,
22:04 great technology there, but before we
22:06 ever get to that, um, you know, before
22:07 you ever get to the sophisticated
22:09 journaling tools or any of that from the
22:11 psychology side of things, just a simple
22:14 spreadsheet and tracking some data can
22:16 make a massive difference to people. So,
22:17 that's kind of what we focus on. We set
22:19 that foundation before we ever go near
22:21 looking at subconscious beliefs and how
22:23 they're impacting your execution in the
22:25 market. We get that baseline stuff
22:27 dialed in. So that's probably what
22:28 you're talking about, I'd imagine.
22:31 >> Yeah, I think so. I think um I know a
22:34 few people working with you and uh since
22:36 started working with you, they've
22:38 changed their life. Like uh like Megan,
22:39 for example, is one of them. I know
22:41 she's working with you. And then Megan
22:44 is now a trail runner. She's uh you
22:46 know, she's you know, improving in her
22:49 life. And I'm fascinating following her
22:51 and uh you know, I know that uh the
22:54 changes when she's been working with you
22:57 for some time. I think uh um the trading being
22:59 being
23:02 aware of all of these help a lot of
23:03 people in different aspect of life even
23:06 if you track you all of these and your
23:08 trading doesn't improve you might
23:10 actually improve your life much better
23:12 and I've seen a lot of people around me
23:14 that's uh trading help them to become
23:17 much better like Mike for example now is
23:20 running marathon Peter did the marathon
23:22 you know Megan is a trade runner Thor
23:25 for example one of our moderators
23:26 Have you seen him recently? He's like a
23:28 terminator or like he has changed you
23:30 know lost a lot of weight and so feel
23:32 running and everything and these are the
23:34 people that it's obvious that this
23:36 process of becoming better trader have
23:39 helped them in uh life and uh uh other
23:42 aspects. So tracking them is is a good
23:43 thing not only for training for everything.
23:44 everything.
23:46 >> 100%. Like that's you know a lot of
23:48 people actually even in feedback from my
23:49 program it's definitely not something
23:51 that I put out there as marketing
23:53 because it's it's not something I can
23:55 stand over and say it'll definitely
23:58 happen. But the system that I teach is
23:59 it comes from sports psychology as well.
24:01 So like it's applicable in sport. It's
24:02 applicable pretty much across the board
24:05 in any high performance domain. But
24:07 through going through that type of um
24:10 self-improvement with a very specific
24:12 goal in mind, it does force you to look
24:14 at what's holding you back. Like what
24:15 are the deep blockers within you that
24:17 are holding you back from achieving your
24:19 goals? Um where can you bring more
24:21 consistency to your preparation to your
24:23 review so that you can get more out of
24:26 the hours that you spend on trading or
24:28 on your sport or whatever it is. So, I
24:31 do think that um yeah, the process of
24:33 becoming better and becoming a high
24:35 performer in any arena does force you to
24:37 become a different person and in a
24:39 positive way. Um and I definitely can't
24:42 take credit for Megan's um amazing trail
24:44 running and all of that, but I do, you
24:46 know, I would agree that what you're
24:48 saying, you're seeing that in the BBT um
24:51 leaders, moderators, and all of that. as
24:54 they're getting more consistent, more
24:55 refined, they're performing better in
24:57 their trading, it's carrying over to
24:59 other areas of their life because you
25:01 can't be one person in trading and then
25:03 a different person outside in other
25:04 areas of your life. It just doesn't work
25:06 like that. Like much as we would like to
25:08 be able to completely compartmentalize
25:10 the person and the performer, there's
25:13 only a certain amount really that or a
25:14 certain extent that you can do that to.
25:18 So, um, trading is probably one of the
25:20 harshest arenas where you go in and you
25:22 think that you're just going in to learn
25:25 a strategy and to become profitable and
25:27 you'll make some money. And actually, it
25:30 becomes the cleanest, clearest mirror as
25:31 to everything that's holding you back in
25:33 your life and as a person. And then it
25:36 shows you these opportunities to upgrade
25:39 your thinking, your behaviors, um, you
25:42 know, your knowledge in so that you can
25:44 perform better in the market. But in
25:46 doing so, then you actually become this
25:47 whole different higher version of
25:49 yourself. And I've seen that again and
25:52 again. And I'm not talking about in just
25:53 traders that have worked with me. I mean
25:56 traders that are doing it themselves,
25:57 working with other people. Anyone who's
25:59 had to go through that process of
26:01 leveling up in all of these different
26:03 areas, becomes a different person in the
26:05 process. Um, and I think it's really
26:06 rewarding. It does definitely carry
26:09 into, you know, personal lives, into
26:11 fitness, um, and into overall
26:13 fulfillment. I think would you agree
26:14 with that?
26:16 >> Yeah, I agree. They say there's a saying
26:17 that they said that's how you do
26:19 anything. That's how you do everything.
26:23 Uh um so I have a question actually from
26:25 a couple of members. It's a pretty much
26:28 the same question. So Amy is asking like
26:31 uh you know she's been trading uh for
26:33 like trying to trade for about a year
26:36 and a half and uh uh she puts her career
26:39 on hold to some extent and uh you know
26:41 the process of learning to be wrong is
26:44 exhausting for her and what advice would
26:46 you offer for traders who are at a bar
26:48 stage that they were wondering that even
26:51 if trading is for them they're another
26:53 question that was very similar was that
26:55 uh you know how can you stop blaming
26:57 yourself that I'm constantly blaming
26:58 myself. Oh, I shouldn't have done that
26:59 and then so maybe there are two
27:02 questions but a lot of people wonder
27:03 that okay I'm not getting results I'm
27:06 doing all of these stuff
27:08 how do I know that it's not for me and I
27:10 should stop.
27:13 >> So I would say
27:15 try everything on the psychology side
27:17 before you give up. Obviously, you know,
27:18 I don't know your financial situation
27:19 and all of that, but if we were just
27:22 talking theoretically, usually the piece
27:23 that's missing for people, if they keep
27:25 if they're working really hard, they're
27:26 doing everything, they're reading the
27:28 books, you know, they're like giving it
27:29 everything and it's not moving, they
27:31 they find that they keep experiencing
27:33 the same challenge. Usually what's
27:35 happening is it's in the subconscious.
27:36 So, the area to work on is the
27:38 subconscious mind. And it's that
27:41 people's deep subconscious um beliefs
27:44 and their identity is
27:46 there's programs running there that are
27:48 not serving their trading. And so it
27:50 doesn't matter how much conscious work
27:54 you do analyzing um you know like
27:57 tracking the data if if there's a
27:58 subconscious belief that it's holding
28:02 you back. So example that you know um
28:04 achievement I derive my self worth from
28:06 achievement. So, I'm only worthy as a
28:08 person if I'm achieving results. Uh,
28:10 that's a really common one. Um, which
28:12 would link with not being able to take a
28:14 loss. Uh, you know, because taking a
28:17 loss means that I'm less of a person.
28:19 Those deep beliefs will trip you up in
28:21 your trading. And they're usually, in my
28:23 experience, if someone is repeatedly
28:24 coming up against the same issue and
28:25 they're starting to question, you know,
28:29 is trading even for me? go and look into
28:30 that area of the subconscious beliefs
28:32 and how they're impacting your trading
28:34 and put some mental training tools in
28:35 place to try and reshape that. So you
28:37 figure out what the belief is that's
28:39 tripping up. Then you reshape it with
28:42 mental training and I would say now this
28:45 is a total nonressearchbased
28:48 uh guest of it but I would say in 95% of
28:51 cases that will shift things. So whether
28:53 trading is for you or not might be a
28:54 bigger question. But if it's because
28:56 you're coming up against this repeated
28:58 challenge, it's usually the subconscious
29:00 mind that's the blocker. And you know,
29:02 if you can target that and work on it
29:04 with very specific um techniques, you
29:07 probably should see then an uplift in
29:08 your performance and you'd see that
29:11 block dissolving.
29:15 >> Um I have a question uh that impacts
29:18 myself mostly, but uh I'd like to ask
29:20 you. Um I myself going through a
29:23 depression right now and uh it's also
29:26 some sort of a mid life crisis. I
29:29 achieved a lot and uh I know that I've
29:32 been plateaued in my achievements like I
29:33 made the money that I wanted. I had the
29:35 business and I climbed the biggest
29:38 mountains and I'm going through a very
29:40 you know serious depression in my mind
29:43 uh because I can't get that high from
29:45 another thing. And
29:47 what do you think I should do like uh or
29:50 people who reach to this level of uh
29:52 achievements through the peak
29:54 performance and then they go like again
29:56 you know I follow some of the you know
29:58 people like Maradona was the situation
30:02 like after you know becoming the board
30:04 figure and then he cocaine was his thing
30:06 until he died he just never could get
30:08 that high from something else had to go
30:10 through cocaine
30:11 what do you think I should do like
30:13 that's a question for me [laughter] So,
30:15 so I have a very clear specific answer
30:17 and first I'll have to do the you know
30:19 the ethical obviously if somebody is
30:20 experiencing depression and you know
30:23 going to sleep seek clinical help and
30:25 you know professional help with it
30:27 always first protocol but from my perspective
30:29 perspective
30:32 it's a really classic um example and and
30:34 you can disagree with this if you want
30:36 this is just my read of it the people
30:39 that you know pursue really high lofty
30:41 goals and goal after goal and and they
30:43 get that high and they set the new goal
30:45 Usually what's actually happening is
30:47 that they're equating their self-worth,
30:49 like their internal worth as a person,
30:51 how they feel about themselves, their
30:53 self-love, all of that. It entirely
30:55 depends on external results and that's
30:57 the problem. So it doesn't matter how
30:58 many mountains you climb or how many
31:00 millions are in the bank account or you
31:02 know none of that actually matters
31:05 because it's a operating system at your
31:07 subconscious level that is out of whack.
31:10 So the solution to it which is not easy
31:12 it takes a lot of you know internal work
31:14 it's actually like loving yourself and
31:16 I'm saying this to you but to anyone
31:17 who's struggling like this loving
31:19 yourself for who you are completely
31:21 separate to achieving anything like if
31:22 you never achieved anything in your life
31:25 but you had self-love you were totally
31:29 you know you really um felt inherently
31:31 worthy of love and happiness and all of
31:33 that just for by virtue of who you are
31:35 as a person as opposed to what you
31:38 achieve. when you can get to that place
31:40 it it you know then the achievements are
31:42 great but they don't define you as a
31:44 person and that's usually where the kind
31:46 of happiness comes back in.
31:48 >> Do you do you love yourself for who you
31:50 are? Like how
31:52 >> I do I do genuinely. I didn't always but
31:53 I did a lot of therapy and a lot of
31:55 selfwork on that like so you know I'm
31:58 I'm a walking example of having gone
32:01 from one version of probably being my
32:03 you know own biggest enemy to completely
32:05 coming full circle. And I genuinely do
32:09 love myself like for who I am and uh I
32:11 love to achieve things for sure. I'm a
32:14 competitive like driven person but and
32:15 and it's not perfect like I have to work
32:18 on that you know but yeah I could say
32:22 that hand on heart I do um but that I
32:23 had to do a lot of work to get to that point.
32:24 point.
32:26 >> Yeah I founded uh you know a lot of the
32:28 traders who are high achiever it's a
32:31 blessing and it's a curse. uh like my
32:32 father was the same like he was a you
32:35 know had nothing you know no education
32:37 and then really achieved a lot of uh
32:40 success financially and then he really
32:41 reached to that plateaued and then went
32:43 through the depression serious addiction
32:46 and he passed away very early in life.
32:49 Um and uh a lot of high achievers
32:50 getting into challenge of trading and
32:52 trying to get better and stuff that has
32:54 always served them in life but sometimes
32:56 it really catches them and you have to
32:58 be really careful but to your point I do
33:00 do therapy. I am trying to that's
33:02 exactly what my therapist is trying to
33:04 work uh on my psyche that go through
33:06 with my childhood go through the traumas
33:09 that I have and try to connect with my
33:13 inner person and try to love that person
33:15 uh and this anger that I always had and
33:18 make the fuel for my success you know
33:21 don't burn me uh and save me you know
33:24 after that um I don't know how much time
33:29 you have but uh I might may I see if
33:31 there's any question that uh people have.
33:32 have.
33:34 >> Yeah, I'm happy to stay on if that suits
33:35 you know I know you have your schedule
33:37 so but I'm happy to stay on if there's
33:47 >> Just to your point there Andrew I think
33:49 it's important like you're doing the
33:51 exact work that would resolve it. It
33:54 just takes time. Like for me it took 10
33:57 years to to overcome depression and an
33:59 eating disorder and then it continued to
34:01 be something I work on and now it's
34:02 completely out of my life. Like I don't
34:04 it's not something I struggle with at
34:06 all. It's never going to come back. But
34:08 like you can be doing all the right
34:09 stuff and just in the process of doing
34:12 it. It takes time and you know there's
34:13 not more you can be doing if you're
34:16 doing the work. It just it's a process.
34:19 >> Joy was saying that um Joy is asking a
34:20 question. It's not a question. It's more
34:22 like a statement that day trading saved
34:25 my life from a very dark place after
34:29 losing a loved one. And again he took uh
34:31 apparently this challenge of trading and
34:34 getting you know himself challenged to
34:37 recover from a crisis a tragedy in his
34:40 life and uh I've never actually thought
34:41 about that that trading can actually
34:43 this challenge can help you come out of
34:46 some dark stage of life.
34:48 Yeah, that's that's amazing that that uh
34:51 I can see how like it's given a focus, a
34:52 sense of achievement. It's you know it's
34:54 a really positive thing that so that's
34:56 wonderful that that's happened for that person
34:56 person
34:59 >> to answer the question that uh Amy had
35:02 uh up there that when to quit I think uh
35:04 if as a trader and educator if I want to
35:08 answer that is um a lot of time uh it's
35:10 psychology is not a problem your system
35:13 has the problem and people blame it to
35:15 psychology even Dr. Betty Steinberger
35:17 was saying that you know people love to
35:20 blame psychology for their inconsistency
35:22 but a lot of time is actually coming
35:25 from their system. So in my opinion is
35:27 uh if you give it a good reasonable
35:29 amount of time like maybe two years but
35:32 not full-time and only couple of hours
35:35 uh a day or maybe you know a week and
35:37 then you realize that you don't get the
35:40 consistency with moderate uh you know
35:41 investment that you had in your
35:43 education then maybe trading is not for
35:46 you and I do believe that trading is not
35:50 for everybody like uh some you know
35:52 career are not for some people like I
35:54 can never be a doctor. I hate blood and
35:55 everything. I can never become, you
35:58 know, you know, professional athlete in
35:59 what I'm picked because I'm not
36:01 passionate about and I think that's okay
36:03 if you're not [clears throat]
36:05 built for something.
36:07 >> Do you give this advice credit to some
36:08 people that maybe sometimes trading is
36:09 not for you.
36:12 >> 100%. Absolutely. Like there's so many
36:14 things that I could never be good at.
36:16 It's not, you know, and it and I might
36:17 try it and even if I was interested in
36:19 it, I might try it and it's just not
36:20 doesn't fit my personality. Doesn't
36:24 whatever. Um, I think that the key is
36:27 really trying to well probably having an
36:28 actual financial number that you know
36:30 I'm prepared to lose this much and if I
36:32 go past that I'm cut off. I think that's
36:35 just practical. Um, but I also think
36:38 that like you say um doing everything
36:39 you can to get the strategy right like
36:42 sometimes even at the higher level when
36:43 people have a good strategy sometimes
36:44 we'll work on something from the
36:46 psychology but actually it will turn out
36:48 that the market conditions have changed
36:49 and they need to adapt their strategy.
36:50 So, like you say, it's not always
36:52 psychology, but I think if you give it a
36:54 really good shot at learning the
36:55 technical side, addressing the
36:58 psychology, and you're not enjoying it,
37:00 you know, it feels like a strain and a
37:03 struggle all the time. Um, I think that,
37:07 you know, there there's no uh failure in
37:08 admitting that it's not for you. Like, I
37:12 quit a PhD in my life and, you know, I
37:13 guess a lot of people might see that as
37:14 a failure, but I think it's the best one
37:16 of the best decisions I made. I put so
37:18 much work into it, but it it came to a
37:21 point where the effort I was investing
37:24 wasn't going to turn into advancing me
37:26 down the path I wanted to go and so I
37:28 made a decision to cut my losses and you
37:31 know I I'm still to this day glad that I
37:32 did that. Um I learned a lot from doing
37:34 it but I'm glad I did it. So I don't
37:36 think that changing direction is failure
37:38 if it's the right thing for you. So I
37:39 think people find like being able to
37:41 figure out if it's right for them or not
37:42 is critical.
37:44 >> Yeah. And you in that time when you quit
37:47 you you didn't I mean now I know you
37:49 don't but in that time you felt that you
37:51 actually failed or no when you quit the PS
37:51 PS
37:53 >> no I had I mean I didn't I didn't do it
37:56 lightly I but I was so clear on where I
37:59 wanted to go with my career and I was so
38:01 clear on the trajectory of we lost a
38:04 year of research and like it got delayed
38:05 and I was having to choose actually
38:07 between purely focusing on research or
38:10 focusing on the um application. So I
38:12 much prefer the applied side of well at
38:15 the time it was sports psychology. Um
38:19 and I did the PhD on the like assumption
38:20 that I'd be able to work on both those
38:22 streams at the same time. And it got to
38:24 the point where I would have had to have
38:25 dropped the applied work in order to
38:27 only focus on the research. And that
38:29 wasn't my overall goal. Like I loved the
38:31 research. It was interesting but
38:32 ultimately I always wanted to be an
38:34 applied practitioner. And so it just got
38:36 to the point where I was like, "This is
38:38 taking me down a slightly different path
38:40 to where I want to go and it's no longer
38:42 like the correct mechanism to get me
38:44 where I want to go." And so I I quit it.
38:45 But it was definitely like I thought
38:47 about a lot, talked to therapists, like
38:49 really worked on the decision. So when I
38:51 did make the decision, it was a clean cut.
38:52 cut.
38:55 >> Yeah. Well, uh I really enjoyed the
38:59 conversation and uh if people want to uh
39:02 connect with you u I put a link uh in
39:05 the chat room and in YouTube u you have
39:07 a really great website a lot of
39:08 resources free resources as well I think
39:11 crediterformance.com is that the the URL
39:12 >> that's it yeah and there's a free master
39:14 class there free trading psychology
39:16 masterclass that if people want to um
39:18 understand about a few of the key
39:20 challenges that people experience as
39:23 traders the psychology uh side of if
39:24 they want to kind of understand more
39:26 about that and learn a few fixes for
39:27 those things that they can implement
39:29 straight away, that free master class is
39:31 probably the first place to start.
39:32 >> Yeah. And you have a YouTube channel and
39:34 you're active in pretty much all social
39:37 media, X and Instagram, I know. Uh and
39:40 LinkedIn as well. Um so guys, uh feel
39:43 free to uh follow and reach out to Cred
39:44 and I think your email is crederformance.com.
39:46 crederformance.com. Yes,
39:46 Yes,
39:48 >> that's it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
39:50 >> Seriously, also we have the link on our
39:52 website. So if you go to the homepage, I
39:55 think there is in one of the menu bars
39:58 uh it's it's in your so easy for people
40:01 to find you. I'm very grateful and we
40:04 have also a book together u on my trade
40:07 book uh credit has authored one chapter
40:09 which is really nice on psychology and
40:12 mental edge. I highly recommend guys uh
40:15 uh check it out and um thank you so much
40:19 for your time. I I really enjoy uh
40:20 talking to you every single time.
40:22 >> Thanks, Andrew. I love chatting to you.
40:23 It's always a really insightful
40:25 discussion. So, thanks for having me and
