0:02 When I was growing up, when I heard the
0:05 word Vietnam, I thought only of the war,
0:08 tragedy, controversy, and shame and
0:10 angst. When I departed Vietnam as
0:12 ambassador, it's very emotional for me.
0:15 Vietnam is a beautiful country. I think
0:17 arguably one of America's most important
0:20 friends and allies.
0:23 Daniel Kinbrick, he is no longer living
0:25 in Vietnam, but holds Vietnam very dear
0:28 to his heart. He's visiting again since
0:30 he left his ambassador post and he's
0:32 moved on to a new role at the Asia
0:34 Group. I've always believed in my entire
0:35 career of diplomacy. It's all about
0:38 trust and about mutual respect. We were
0:39 trying to do something interesting that
0:41 was supposed to show respect to Vietnam
0:43 and the Vietnamese people and celebrate
0:46 the Tet holiday. And when it came out,
0:47 not every comment is going to be
0:49 positive or nice because I got a
0:51 handwritten note from former President
0:53 Barack Obama.
0:54 When President Trump made his
0:57 announcement on April 2, 46% tariffs are
0:58 announced for Vietnam. Vietnamese
1:00 friends are shocked and well, this is
1:02 terrible. We're not going to engage and
1:03 we're going to figure out some other
1:05 path. Why did Vietnam end up with a more
1:07 favorable deal? And I think they had a
1:12 choice. There's a first mover advantage.
1:13 The first American ambassador to the
1:15 Socialist Republic of Vietnam was Pete
1:16 Peterson. And I told him once over
1:19 dinner that what the United States and
1:20 Vietnam had accomplished together was a
1:22 miracle. And Ambassador Peterson got
1:24 very unhappy with me. And he said, "I
1:26 don't like the word miracle. Miracle
1:28 implies that it just happened or was an
1:30 accident and or an act of God." He said,
1:32 "That's not what happened here." Will
1:33 Vietnam be quote unquote the next
1:35 Singapore? Don't get me wrong, I have a
1:37 lot of respect and admiration for
1:40 Singapore as well. But [Music]
1:41 [Music]
1:43 good afternoon everyone. Welcome to
1:44 another episode of the Vietnam
1:46 Innovators podcast. I'm your host. Thank
1:49 you for tuning in every single week and
1:51 supporting the podcast. Uh today we
1:54 actually have a very special guest. Uh
1:56 he is no longer living in Vietnam, but
1:59 holds Vietnam very dear to his heart,
2:02 I'm sure. Um he's visiting again um
2:04 since he left his ambassador post and
2:06 he's moved on to a new role at the Asia
2:08 group. Uh but I'll let him explain
2:11 everything. Uh Daniel Kittenberg,
2:12 >> welcome to the podcast.
2:14 >> Mr. How are you? Such a pleasure and
2:15 honor to be here.
2:17 >> Yes, thank you. [Music]
2:18 [Music] [Applause]
2:19 [Applause] [Music]
2:26 >> Let's just wind back the clock a little
2:29 bit. ambassador. Um, uh, in my notes
2:31 here, one of your first, or sorry, one
2:33 of your last, uh, things that you did
2:35 with the Vietnamese government was a
2:37 very endearing photo with the former
2:39 general secretary, um, upon your
2:41 departure. And I think that really
2:44 marked, uh, not only the end of your
2:46 time in Vietnam, but also the beginning
2:48 of some uh, new things to look forward to.
2:49 to. >> Um,
2:50 >> Um,
2:51 >> drawing from your time as the
2:53 ambassador, how would you say Vietnam
2:54 has changed
2:57 >> since then? Well, how thanks for the qu,
3:00 you know, um I I reflect on that. I I
3:03 remember when I when I left when I
3:04 departed Vietnam as ambassador. It's
3:06 very emotional for me. You know, I moved
3:08 here with my family. We were here for
3:10 for 3 and 1/2 years. You get very
3:12 invested in a place. We we loved every
3:14 minute of being here. You know, traveled
3:16 all over the country, met so many
3:18 people. I talked about develop the
3:20 developing these relationships of trust
3:22 and these friendships that that was hard
3:26 to uh to walk away from. And you know um
3:28 you know even officially I was really
3:30 gratified you know the general secretary
3:33 allowed me to call on him as did the you
3:34 know the president and the prime
3:35 minister and foreign minister and
3:38 others. Um and part of the reason why I
3:41 think it was so meaningful to me is that
3:43 you know I was here during the 25th
3:46 anniversary uh of US Vietnam ties and of
3:48 course was here over this last week to
3:50 celebrate the 30th anniversary. When you
3:52 reflect on that, it's really
3:53 extraordinary what the United States and
3:56 Vietnam have accomplished together. And
3:59 to feel like I made a small contribution
4:02 to that is really the greatest honor of
4:05 my life. My my first political memories
4:07 that I remember as a child were of the
4:08 Vietnam War and of the Watergate
4:12 hearings uh which were not uh unrelated
4:14 as you may recall uh from our history.
4:17 Uh, and when I was growing up, you know,
4:20 Vietnam, when I heard the word Vietnam,
4:22 I thought only of the war. I thought of
4:25 this tragedy. Even for someone of my
4:28 generation, um, it was uh, it was a
4:31 source of controversy and shame and uh,
4:34 and angst. And then to discover in the
4:38 course of my diplomatic career that uh
4:41 Vietnam is a beautiful country uh with
4:45 amazing people who today
4:48 um you know is really I think arguably
4:51 one of America's uh most important
4:53 friends and allies and when you when you
4:55 reflect on that journey uh it's really
4:56 gratifying and it's and it's quite
4:59 emotional. You ask how Vietnam has
5:00 changed the most. Look, I think Vietnam
5:03 has changed in an extraordinary way over
5:06 the last especially 30 years. Uh, and
5:08 the US Vietnam relationship has changed
5:10 alongside it and there's a direct
5:12 correlation there. You know, I mean, I
5:13 think Vietnamese leaders decided that
5:15 they were going to pursue a new path, a
5:18 path of international integration and
5:21 part of that uh was dependent on
5:23 normalizing ties with the United States.
5:24 As you know, the United States still had
5:27 an economic embargo on Vietnam and and
5:29 was probably the main roadblock to
5:31 Vietnam's internationalization strategy.
5:33 So, the the two went hand inand
5:36 Vietnamese reform, desire to integrate
5:38 uh internationally, and then a desire to
5:40 normalize ties with the United States.
5:43 All of that came together. Uh I think
5:46 Vietnam has changed uh in really
5:48 dramatic ways, and Vietnam has
5:49 accomplished so much. I think the
5:51 Vietnamese people and the Vietnamese
5:53 leadership should be incredibly proud of
5:55 what what you accomplished. Vietnam
5:59 today uh is a leader. It's a leader in
6:02 the region. Um it's an incredible example
6:04 example
6:06 uh of what a country can achieve. You
6:07 know, it's partly related to the
6:10 normalization story with the US. I think
6:12 it's much more related to what a people
6:14 and a country can do when they set out
6:17 an ambitious uh plan and when they work
6:19 towards it. You know, Vietnam's, as you
6:20 know, one of the fastest growing
6:21 economies in the world. You are one of
6:23 the youngest countries in the world. And
6:25 when I come here, I'm just addicted to
6:28 the dynamism and the energy
6:31 uh that I feel. And also, perhaps most
6:35 surprisingly, to the incredible
6:37 positivity towards the United States.
6:38 You know, a couple years ago when I was
6:40 here as ambassador, I used to say,
6:42 "America is more popular in Vietnam than
6:43 any other country in the world." Can you
6:45 imagine that after everything that we've
6:47 been through? But but it's true. I I'll
6:50 share one more story. The first American
6:52 ambassador to the Socialist Republic of
6:53 Vietnam was Pete Peterson. I don't know
6:55 if you're aware of his story, but you
6:58 know, he was um uh he was a fighter
6:59 pilot during the war. He was shot down.
7:02 He was imprisoned in the Hanoi Hilton
7:04 for uh 7 years, about a year longer than
7:07 John McCain was. And he ends up becoming
7:09 the first American ambassador and does
7:11 such an amazing job uh and really got us
7:14 off uh I think on the right foot. Got to
7:15 know him when I was ambassador here. I
7:16 used to host him at my home regularly
7:19 and I told him once over dinner that
7:20 what the United States and Vietnam had
7:23 accomplished together was a miracle and
7:25 Ambassador Peterson got very unhappy
7:27 with me and I was surprised and I said
7:29 why what did I say and he said I don't
7:31 like the world the word miracle he said
7:33 what the United States and Vietnam have
7:35 achieved is extraordinary and we should
7:38 celebrate it but miracle implies that it
7:40 just happened or it was an accident and
7:42 or an act of God he said that's not what
7:44 happened here what we've achieved is the
7:46 result of hard work, courage,
7:49 commitment, and goodwill by people and
7:50 leaders on both sides. And I was I was
7:52 really inspired by that. So, look,
7:54 Vietnam has accomplished a lot through
7:56 the hard work of your people and your
7:57 leadership. Uh the United States and
7:59 Vietnam have done the same together.
8:01 Hasn't been easy, but um you should be
8:03 proud of what you've done and we we
8:05 should be proud and celebrate together
8:07 what we've achieved. Now you you know
8:10 what you know today which is um probably
8:12 not much more than than most people in
8:14 terms of like the details of the
8:16 negotiation but you know the context how
8:18 the people are thinking about it. Um why
8:20 did Vietnam end up with a more favorable
8:22 deal would you say? Of course it's not a
8:23 done deal. >> Yeah.
8:23 >> Yeah.
8:26 >> Uh aside from the trust social I think
8:28 it's what it's called. Social true
8:29 social sorry.
8:31 >> Um was it strategy? Was it trust
8:33 something else? uh give us a little
8:35 backstory of what what you're thinking
8:36 on that.
8:38 >> Yeah. No, the these are great questions.
8:40 How and something that we you know
8:41 follow very closely and spend a lot of
8:43 time talking about. May maybe I'll say a
8:47 couple of things. Um look, I I have
8:49 tremendous respect I think you can tell
8:52 for Vietnam and for Vietnam Vietnamese
8:55 diplomacy, which I think is is been very
8:56 skillful over the years. You know, I
8:58 talked earlier about what Vietnam has achieved.
9:00 achieved.
9:02 I think diplomatically Vietnam has
9:04 achieved all that it's had because your
9:06 leadership and your diplomats are very
9:10 strategic and very practical. Uh and I
9:13 think uh Vietnam has brought that same
9:15 strategic thinking and practicality to
9:18 the current challenge over tariffs. I do
9:19 think when President Trump made his
9:22 announcement on April 2 to um issue the
9:25 so-called uh liberation day tariffs, the
9:27 the reciprocal tariffs, I do think
9:30 Vietnamese friends were were shocked and
9:33 a bit uh a bit bewildered. Some were
9:35 maybe a bit a bit angry. And I think
9:39 what I had heard in the runup to April 2
9:42 was some version of, you know, a lot of
9:43 Vietnamese friends felt like they had
9:45 engaged so positively with the first
9:47 Trump administration. This is when I was
9:48 here as ambassador. Of course, President
9:51 Trump visited twice. President Trump
9:53 stated explicitly, publicly, and
9:55 privately that he likes Vietnam. He said
9:57 that earlier this year in a in an early
9:59 phone call that General Secretary Dolom
10:01 made. And I think that that made a lot
10:04 of Vietnamese friends feel like we did
10:05 really well under the first Trump
10:06 administration. We're going to follow
10:08 that same playbook. We know the
10:10 president generally likes Vietnam.
10:11 Everything's going to be fine. Then the
10:15 April 2 announcement happens uh and 46%
10:17 tariffs are announced for Vietnam.
10:18 There's Vietnamese friends are shocked
10:20 and bewildered. And I think they had a
10:22 choice. They could have been upset and
10:24 angry and said, "Well, well, this is
10:27 terrible. Um we're not going to engage
10:29 and we're going to figure out some other
10:30 path forward, right?" But that's not
10:32 what Vietnam did. And I think in classic
10:35 Vietnamese fashion, Vietnamese
10:37 leadership and diplomats said, "We're
10:38 going to engage and we're going to
10:40 engage aggressively and we're going to
10:43 bank our success on a belief that
10:46 there's a first mover advantage." And I
10:47 think the Trump administration was
10:49 trying to signal that was the case. Uh,
10:51 but I got to tell you, I think the
10:53 Vietnamese may have engaged Washington
10:55 as successfully, maybe more successfully
10:57 than anyone else. General Secretary
10:58 Dolan was the first leader to call
11:00 President Trump after April 2. They
11:03 spoke on April 4. Uh there was a formal
11:05 agreement that Vietnam was going to be
11:08 on the the short list of fast-tracked
11:11 trade negotiations. Uh the Vietnamese uh
11:14 and the US sides have had I've lost
11:15 track. I want to say something like five
11:18 rounds of negotiations both in person uh
11:20 and virtually. Deputy Prime Minister
11:23 Faul came to the United States. Trade
11:25 Minister Zen came to the United States
11:28 multiple times. Lots of virtual
11:31 um engagements as well. And look, the
11:32 Vietnamese have been strategic. They've
11:34 been practical. They've been concrete.
11:35 They've been detailed. I think they
11:37 brought a lot to the table. They put a
11:39 lot on the table. And I think my
11:42 understanding from talking with friends
11:46 on both sides, um, the Vietnamese uh,
11:49 they they they came to play. Uh, they
11:52 brought their the their agame. They put
11:53 on the table a pretty broad
11:56 comprehensive package of commercial
11:58 purchases, uh, steps to address market
12:01 access barriers, non-tariff barriers,
12:06 uh, and then, um, um, some creative uh,
12:09 responses to US concerns, whether it was
12:11 trans shipment, Chinese content or
12:15 tariff levels or whatever. So, um, look,
12:17 I I think the deal as it stands today is
12:19 the result of hard work on both sides.
12:21 But I give a lot of credit to, uh,
12:23 Vietnamese diplomats and negotiators for
12:27 that outcome. I I do think though we're
12:29 not quite done, and it's important to
12:31 focus on that for a couple of reasons.
12:33 It's hard to tell exactly how the
12:36 Vietnamese deal may stack up to others
12:38 um, uh, you know, before the other deals
12:40 are concluded. I think what I've learned
12:42 from the Vietnamese negotiators and
12:44 others, it's the relative tariff rate
12:46 that's more important than anything. So,
12:47 you know, when I push Vietnamese
12:49 friends, hey, what's your bottom line on
12:50 tariffs? They say, well, I'm not going
12:51 to give you one. It all all depends on
12:54 how our competitors are doing. Right?
12:57 That's point one. Point two would be
12:59 it's not quite done yet because I think
13:01 following the the most recent phone call
13:02 between President Trump and President
13:05 Dolam. Uh my sense is there's there's a
13:07 little bit of confusion and ambiguity on
13:09 both sides and basically both sides are
13:12 figuring out how do we implement in
13:14 detail what was discussed on the call
13:16 and what's been negotiated between the
13:19 two sides because I know Vietnamese and
13:20 American companies feel this way. I know
13:23 our clients feel this way. When you've
13:26 invested billions of dollars in the
13:27 Vietnamese market, either for the
13:29 Vietnamese market or especially for
13:31 export out of Vietnam, which is what
13:33 most of the investment is focused on,
13:36 the relative tariff rate is existential
13:38 to your business and to the survival of
13:39 at least that supply chain that's
13:41 dependent on Vietnam, maybe to the
13:43 entire business. So, companies and
13:47 investors need certainty and they they
13:50 crave it. They're desperate for it. And
13:52 I think we can't see soon enough the
13:54 issuance of this joint statement that's
13:57 being negotiated uh because we need to
13:59 lay out the clarity.
14:03 What is 20% uh across the board on
14:04 reciprocal tariffs really mean? Does
14:07 that include the the the previous MFN
14:09 tariffs? Is it in place of that? On top
14:11 of that, what does 40% on transship
14:14 goods mean? Um I don't know anybody
14:16 quite on either side of the Pacific who
14:18 knows yet, right? because you can define
14:21 trans shshipment in different ways. Um
14:23 is it related to fraudulent rules of
14:25 origin or just Chinese content? And then
14:29 uh on the 0% tariffs, does that mean
14:33 select um you know select sectors of
14:35 goods will have 0% tariffs in Vietnam or
14:37 is that across the board? So anyway,
14:39 we're not quite there yet, but I still
14:41 think the thrust of your question is is
14:43 is a good one. Vietnamese have done
14:46 quite well. Uh overall what's been
14:48 announced actually stacks up pretty well
14:50 compared to other markets, but I I still
14:51 think we got a lot of details that have
14:54 to be hammered out. [Music]
14:55 [Music] [Applause]
14:56 [Applause] [Music]
15:02 [Music]
15:05 >> Uh Dan, one thing as I researched your
15:07 background just a bit further is, you
15:08 know, I realized you were appointed
15:12 ambassador um during Trump's first uh term.
15:12 term.
15:15 >> Yeah. And and so you could say that
15:17 you're one of the very few people in the
15:20 world that know both sides quite well in
15:22 terms of I would say not just relationship.
15:22 relationship.
15:24 >> I I do feel like I know both sides.
15:26 >> You might be actually the only person.
15:27 Another thing about it because you know
15:31 Vietnam and and the US um the history of
15:33 trade is not as lengthy as let's say
15:35 Japan or Korea which have a few decades
15:39 on it obviously in terms of uh history
15:41 >> and I think in the relationship you have
15:44 this unique lens into it. So my my
15:46 question is the other way around. How
15:48 can Vietnamese businesses
15:51 >> uh get a better insight into how the
15:53 current administration is thinking about
15:55 Vietnam trade? how can they perhaps
15:58 prepare just a little bit better? >> Um,
15:59 >> Um,
16:02 >> no, that's really well said. Well, look,
16:04 for for those uh for those clients who
16:06 hire the Asia Group, that's what we do
16:10 is is we we help them uh on a daily
16:12 basis try to understand what's happening
16:14 in the negotiations, what does it mean
16:16 for your sector? because as I as we
16:19 understand it um
16:24 you know the the the the draft agreement
16:26 uh at least before the phone call I
16:28 think was pretty sophisticated in terms
16:30 of depending on the sector and level of
16:32 foreign content there were different
16:35 tariff levels and the like and so I
16:36 think it's important to know that but
16:38 maybe to take a step back before we get
16:41 too bogged down in the details maybe
16:44 look at this issue uh maybe from a bit
16:46 more of a philosoph ophical viewpoint.
16:48 We've tried to advise clients, don't
16:52 make any rash decisions right now. Um, I
16:55 think we all crave clarity and whether
16:57 you're uh a company that's thinking
17:00 about investing in Vietnam or the United
17:02 States or exporting to one market or the
17:04 other, whether you're considering again
17:06 an investment in a new supply chain or
17:07 even considering moving your supply
17:11 chains, I I I think now is the moment to
17:13 probably hang tight to follow the
17:16 situation very closely and to wait until
17:18 we see how these relative tariff levels
17:21 settle settle out before making any big
17:23 decisions. That would be number one. I
17:25 do think it's important to follow the
17:27 issues closely. But thirdly, I think
17:29 what we normally advise is that
17:31 companies ought to be quite proactive as
17:34 well. Um, you know, our conversation
17:36 today is focus mostly on sort of risk
17:38 mitigation and the risks we see. I think
17:40 a lot of companies and the public go to
17:44 that uh sort of in the first instance.
17:45 But one thing we try to do at the Asia
17:47 Group is we try to tell clients, look,
17:50 there's always opportunity as well. And
17:51 there really is because we're in the
17:54 midst of a trade negotiation where both
17:56 sides have a lot of stake. You could
17:57 argue both sides have a lot of leverage
18:00 right now. This is the moment as far as
18:02 I'm concerned to resolve a lot of the
18:05 longstanding market access uh issues and
18:08 non-tariff barriers as well. So I think
18:10 the companies that have s succeeded the
18:12 best are the ones that have gotten their
18:15 issues on the agenda. Whether it's
18:18 American companies petitioning the
18:20 American the US government or Vietnamese
18:22 companies petitioning the the Vietnamese
18:24 government or a little bit of both. This
18:26 is also a moment to think how how can we
18:30 how can we navigate this? and um because
18:32 there's a real desire in Washington and
18:35 Hanoi to conclude a deal uh there's an
18:36 opportunity to resolve some long-term
18:39 issues here as well. So I think I think
18:40 the biggest advice I would give to
18:43 Vietnamese companies work really hard to
18:45 understand the current moment and
18:48 whether that's you know hiring a
18:51 world-class consulting firm or uh
18:54 engaging with your your peers in in in
18:56 the sector. Do everything you can to
18:58 have a sophisticated understanding of
19:00 what's happening. But but I'd be very
19:01 deliberate and careful. I wouldn't make
19:04 rash decisions right now. But I I would
19:06 definitely take a proactive approach.
19:09 And again, it's not all gloom and doom.
19:11 It's not all risk and downside. There
19:13 are tremendous opportunities here. And
19:15 to go back to your very first question
19:17 on this subject, Vietnam looks pretty
19:20 good from where we sit today. If we can
19:22 land this deal that we're negotiating
19:25 right now, um I I think Vietnam's going
19:26 to come out in a pretty strong position.
19:28 I I think that's that's where I would
19:30 bet my money right now. But we got to
19:32 watch really closely because uh this
19:34 deal is not fully done yet. And again,
19:36 it depends on on the relative tariff
19:38 rate for for the other markets as well.
19:40 >> Uh Dan, on that note, before I continue
19:42 as well, um I've been meeting a few
19:45 other business leaders uh over the last
19:47 week since we scheduled this podcast. Uh
19:49 today's the 15th of July, just for the
19:51 audience to know. We'll release this
19:54 very quickly after recording. Um and I I
19:55 noted that, hey, we're having Dan on the
19:58 show. Um he's at the Asia Group. Um he's
20:00 going to be sharing about this topic and everyone
20:01 everyone
20:02 >> wanted to listen to this podcast. Oh wow.
20:03 wow.
20:05 >> And actually,
20:06 >> you know, just as a side note, we'll
20:08 have to revisit it later. Um, some of
20:10 them actually really wanted to do like a
20:12 closed door session with you, like an
20:13 offline event to hear from you and your team.
20:14 team.
20:16 >> Look, my friend, I'm I'm game. So, if
20:17 you want to do something like that,
20:19 let's talk because
20:20 >> um, you know, whether it's on a future
20:22 trip or something that we do
20:25 >> uh remotely, I'd love to do that. When
20:27 you look at US Vietnam trade and the
20:29 role of the market, you know, we got
20:31 decades worth of experience with one
20:33 another. decades worth of investment and
20:36 trade and relationships. And I know that
20:38 the United States remains Vietnam's
20:40 largest export market. I don't think
20:42 that's going to change overnight. And as
20:44 I said earlier, it's the relative tariff
20:46 rate that's more important than
20:49 anything. So, so let's see where things
20:51 shake out. I actually think Vietnam's
20:53 position pretty well right now. So, I
20:56 again, I wouldn't make any rash
20:58 decisions at this point. Uh I think um
21:01 we're going to know more in the um you
21:05 know in the coming weeks but um I I I
21:07 remain I remain bullish on Vietnam and
21:09 US Vietnam relations regardless.
21:12 >> Uh will Vietnam be quote unquote the
21:15 next Singapore, Southeast Asia? Um is
21:17 that the wrong comparison altogether? Is
21:19 it making its own story? And and what is
21:21 that story if you were just to give that
21:23 quick elevator pitch?
21:25 Well, look, don't get me wrong. I have a
21:26 lot of respect and admiration for
21:30 Singapore as well, but and look, these
21:32 are Vietnam's sovereign decisions.
21:34 Vietnamese leaders know better than
21:36 anybody else what are the challenges and
21:38 opportunities for Vietnam here in the
21:40 21st century and what's the the right
21:43 path forward. But I think for me, I I'd
21:45 probably be reluctant to sort of hop on
21:47 the bandwagon of let's talk about being
21:49 the next Singapore. You know, I'd want
21:51 to I'd probably pitch it as how can
21:54 Vietnam be its best self, be the best
21:56 Vietnam that it could be and think about
21:57 all the attributes that you have. You
22:00 have this, you know, when we talked a
22:02 little about a little bit earlier, but I
22:04 reflect a little bit more on what is it
22:06 that American and other investors see in
22:09 Vietnam. again, they they see this
22:13 young, rapidly developing economy with
22:17 with Vietnamese people who work hard,
22:19 who uh are pretty well educated and
22:20 trained to begin with, but are hungry
22:26 and eager for more. Um, who are sincere
22:28 and honest and dedicated. Again, you've
22:29 got a leadership that's focused
22:32 strategically on trying to take Vietnam
22:34 to the next level of development and is
22:37 committed to uh private sector to grow
22:40 growth in FDI. There's a lot to be
22:43 optimistic about here. So, that that's
22:45 what I'm focused on. Um, you know, I've
22:46 heard a little bit since I've been here
22:48 this idea of Vietnam is the next
22:50 Singapore. And look, uh, there's a lot
22:53 to learn from in Singapore, a lot to like.
22:54 like.
22:57 Again, for me, I I think Vietnam needs
22:58 to just think about what are its unique
23:01 attributes and how can it be its very
23:05 best self. The things that I worry the
23:08 most about as a friend of Vietnam is how
23:10 are you going to solve your energy
23:14 challenge? To keep this amazing story
23:16 going and the the Vietnamese economic
23:18 miracle going,
23:21 um Vietnam has to meet its energy
23:23 demands. You know, from what the general
23:25 secretary and others say that Vietnam
23:26 knows better than anybody what those
23:29 challenges are, but there's also been
23:30 talk about this for the last couple of
23:32 decades and probably not as much
23:35 progress as needs to be made. Vietnamese
23:38 leaders are also talking about uh how do
23:42 we um you know, how do we make Vietnam
23:45 and and IT superpower? How do we uh
23:47 invest in semiconductor supply chains?
23:49 How do we build data centers here and
23:51 take advantage of the AI revolution?
23:53 you've got a lot of attributes there as
23:55 well, but a lot of that's going to
23:57 depend on uh meeting the the power needs
24:01 as well. And so I I really hope that the
24:02 reforms the general secretary and others
24:04 are talking about can really take off
24:07 and we can speed up the reform a and the
24:09 project approvals that will meet those
24:12 energy demands. I hope hope to see some
24:14 acceleration there. I think that'll be
24:16 that'll be really key. But I I've been
24:17 really impressed in talking with
24:19 investors and people here. you know, the
24:21 things you're doing in the IT sector and
24:23 in software development. I mean, hey,
24:25 guess that's why you're here, right? I
24:27 mean, it's it's pretty extraordinary.
24:29 You think about the number of, you know,
24:31 Vietnamese and Silicon Valley and the
24:33 like there's a lot to work with here
24:36 that I'm I'm really excited about. I'm
24:39 confident that Vietnam will continue to
24:40 find its own path, but that's probably
24:43 what what I would think about. Look, but
24:44 it's always great to look for examples.
24:47 I I've seen Vietnamese people taking
24:49 bits and parts of what they like from
24:52 the from the the the Singapore model
24:55 from every country, bits and pieces from
24:57 like the Korean and Japanese success
25:00 stories and the like. You I I just
25:02 encourage Vietnam to find its own way
25:04 and um that that'll almost certainly be
25:05 the best way.
25:06 >> You know, it's been a few years since
25:09 our team um kind of interacted with you
25:11 in the past and I didn't get a chance to
25:13 meet you with you, but our team did. Um,
25:15 and it's all about that rap video.
25:16 >> It's pretty amazing
25:19 >> that that went viral online. Um, why
25:20 don't we just start there to kind of set
25:22 the tone a little bit?
25:24 >> Um, do you remember any lines from the
25:26 rap video?
25:27 >> Well, you know, by the time we got done
25:29 filming, I probably did it a thousand
25:31 times. So, I I remember all the lines,
25:33 but um um yeah, you don't you you can
25:35 test me if you want, but no. Okay. You
25:36 know, the funny thing was I don't know
25:38 if you could tell when we first started
25:41 doing that. Um, you know, I I didn't
25:43 know it very well. Matt Ference, I don't
25:44 know if you knew Matt when he was here.
25:45 He was the public affairs officer here
25:47 in Ho Chi Min City. And basically, he
25:48 came to me
25:50 >> uh in my last year in Vietnam and said,
25:52 "Hey, Mr. Ambassador, I got an idea for you."
25:52 you."
25:56 >> He said, "I know annually you do a Tet video
25:56 video
25:58 >> because we we always tried to show great
26:00 respect to Vietnam and the Vietnamese
26:01 people." So, every year I would do some
26:03 kind of a video to commemorate Tet. And
26:05 Matt came to me and said, you know,
26:07 they're pretty good, but they're, you
26:08 know, uh he said, "I think we can do
26:10 something more exciting." Uh, and he
26:12 said, "Did you know that rap or hip-hop
26:14 is the most popular, you know, musical
26:16 art form among young Vietnamese people?
26:18 Clear US Nexus." He said, "Why don't we
26:21 do a rap video for Tet this year?" Uh,
26:23 and I said, "Why not? Let's do it." So,
26:24 so he he did the whole thing, you know,
26:26 he wrote it. He
26:28 >> uh he hired you to produce it, you know,
26:29 did did the whole thing. I was just his
26:32 prop. But when we started shooting, I I
26:34 didn't have it memorized at all. And
26:35 there there were there were two guys
26:37 holding Q cards behind the camera and I
26:39 was reading for some of those early
26:41 takes. But seriously, I bet we did like
26:43 who knows 100 maybe a thousand takes. So
26:45 yeah, it's it's kind of imprinted in my
26:47 brain. I'm so grateful to you for doing
26:49 I'm grateful to Matt cuz he thought of something,
26:50 something,
26:52 >> you know, a little bit unorthodox,
26:55 you know, um 50-year-old white guy from
26:59 from Nebraska doing a a hiphop, you
27:01 know, a rap video partly in Vietnamese
27:03 about Ted. It's a little bit unorthodox
27:06 obviously. I I remember when I I he
27:07 actually sent me a formal memo. I
27:08 remember I signed off on and I said,
27:10 "You know what? I might lose my job over
27:11 this cuz we're taking a risk." But I
27:13 said, "Why not?" And I think the thing
27:16 that excited me is I've always believed
27:18 in my entire career of diplomacy. I
27:20 learned early on it's all about trust
27:23 and about mutual respect. And so we we
27:24 were trying to do something interesting
27:26 that was supposed to show respect to
27:28 Vietnam and the Vietnamese people and
27:30 celebrate the Tet holiday. do it in a
27:32 way that maybe would resonate with them.
27:35 And in this amazing, you know,
27:37 globalized world, I thought rap or
27:39 hip-hop might be the the medium to do
27:42 that. And um well, it's it's just
27:44 amazing. Um I I can mention a couple
27:46 other things that stood out about it. Um
27:48 it was really cool that that we got
27:50 Wowee to do it. I don't know if that was
27:52 you or Matt or who who did that, but I I
27:54 really love I really love Wow. And I
27:55 remember at one point in the filming, he
27:57 looked at me and he said, "Mr.
27:58 ambassador, I'm going to make you
28:00 famous." And I guess and I guess he was
28:04 right. Um, but it was kind of amazing.
28:05 You know, we did it for the Vietnamese
28:08 audience to show respect and hopefully
28:11 highlight this great intercultural
28:14 uh exchange that's taken place um
28:15 between, you know, Americans and
28:19 Vietnamese. And when it came out, uh, I
28:21 was really pleasantly surprised how
28:23 popular it was in Vietnam. I mean, it it
28:25 exceeded our expectations, right? But
28:27 then there was this really kind of
28:29 strange period where about 48 hours
28:32 later it it sort of went viral globally
28:34 >> and and and and I wasn't prepared for
28:35 that. You know, I I felt a little
28:37 nervous and a little bit embarrassed.
28:38 People are calling me from from all over
28:41 the world. But what I loved about it is
28:44 then it gave me this this vehicle to
28:46 talk about the United States in Vietnam.
28:48 And I used to tell people, hey, the idea
28:50 that an American ambassador would think
28:53 it was a good idea to do this in
28:54 Vietnam. And the fact that it was
28:58 popular, I think speaks volumes to how
28:59 close the US and Vietnam have become,
29:01 how much our relationship has changed
29:02 for the better.
29:04 >> So, I was really gratified for and and I
29:07 have to like I I have to sort of brag
29:08 about two things. So, I felt like it
29:10 went okay in the end
29:12 >> because I got a handwritten note from
29:14 former President Barack Obama saying,
29:16 "Hey, great great job on, you know, on
29:18 the video." And then MC Hammer retweeted
29:19 the video.
29:21 >> Um, so I felt those two things kind of
29:23 kind of validated, but but we did it we
29:25 did it for the Vietnamese audience and I
29:27 I was really gratified how well it went
29:28 and I really just can't thank you and
29:30 your team enough. You guys were uh amazing.
29:31 amazing.
29:32 >> It's it's probably one of the things
29:34 I'll never forget about running this
29:35 company. So, thank you so much
29:37 ambassador for that opportunity and the
29:40 audience reception to it was incredible.
29:42 I remember reading comments and I
29:43 reviewed them this morning before this podcast.
29:45 podcast.
29:47 >> Some people said it was a milestone in
29:49 US Vietnam relation. And you know, you
29:51 put something out that goes viral
29:53 globally. Not not every comment is going
29:55 to be positive or nice.
29:56 >> But I thought for the people that didn't
29:57 like it, I think they didn't understand
29:59 what we were doing. And and I think for
30:01 for most people who did, which was the
30:02 majority of people, I think they
30:04 understood what we were what we were
30:05 trying to do. And um you know, another
30:08 thing I was very conscious about was I
30:10 was trying to be respectful of Vietnam
30:12 and respectful of of the art form and I
30:14 was just trying to be be myself. So you
30:15 know, when we talked about like how do I
30:17 dress, what do I do, you know, I thought
30:19 I thought Matt and your team said the
30:20 right thing like just be yourself. So
30:22 you know, had my suit on and a sweater
30:24 vest and we we did our thing.
30:27 >> Awesome. Uh, we'll have to arrange a uh
30:29 reunion for you and Wowi and Bins.
30:30 >> I I would love to do, you know, when I
30:34 left Vietnam, I guess it was probably
30:35 Yeah, it was just a couple months after
30:36 that, actually,
30:38 >> um, Wow. We actually came to one of my
30:40 farewell events, and I was I was really
30:42 touched. He's He's a great guy. >> Okay.
30:44 >> Okay. [Music]
30:51 [Music]
30:54 >> Um, let's turn to your current work. Yeah,
30:54 Yeah,
30:56 >> Daniel. Um,
30:58 >> it's you're on the front lines of what's
30:59 going on, especially in the private
31:02 sector. Um, so you're a partner at the
31:04 Asia Group, which is a global firm
31:06 helping primarily American companies, as
31:08 I understand, uh,
31:12 >> kind of expand, uh, do good work, um,
31:14 create value in Asia. Um, and you've
31:16 been in this role since February. >> Yep.
31:16 >> Yep.
31:19 >> Uh, so not too far ago. Um, how did you
31:22 find this transition from public to
31:23 private sector? um and also what
31:26 surprised you the most and perhaps what
31:28 sort of skills that you picked up in the
31:30 public sector have helped you thus far
31:31 in your current.
31:32 >> Thank you. How those are great
31:34 questions. Look, I I have loved every
31:37 minute uh of my new career at the Asia
31:38 Group and I've really enjoyed being in
31:41 the private sector, even much more so
31:43 than I than I anticipated. You know, I I
31:46 I was really inspired to uh a career in
31:49 public service by uh really by some of
31:51 the professors I had when I was a
31:53 university student in Nebraska and and I
31:56 had the opportunity to meet um both some
31:58 American and and foreign diplomats
31:59 during that time and that's what really
32:02 inspired me to pursue a career in public
32:05 service. But after 31 years and and
32:07 having so many amazing opportunities, I
32:09 I feel so privileged and blessed, you
32:11 know, to serve as ambassador to Vietnam.
32:14 I was the assistant secretary for East
32:16 Asia in the Pacific at the State
32:17 Department. I was senior director for
32:20 Asia in the White House. Uh spent a long
32:22 time in in China and Japan. I felt like
32:24 I'd achieved everything I ever dreamt
32:26 possible, even more so than I' I'd ever
32:29 dreamed might be possible. So, I I was
32:31 looking for hopefully a new career and a
32:34 new a new opportunity and a new way to
32:37 to contribute. Uh I'm really grateful to
32:40 be uh at the Asia Group. Uh I think it's
32:42 the finest business consultancy focused
32:45 primarily on Asia. And I guess what I've
32:48 found is um I think the skill set of
32:51 people like me is directly applicable to
32:53 to the private sector. You know what I
32:55 learned throughout my my public career
32:57 was that diplomacy is all about
32:58 relationships and especially
33:01 relationships of trust. Uh and I think
33:03 that's uh you know it's that kind of
33:05 ethos and that spirit that we bring to
33:09 our work uh at the Asia Group. Um, you
33:11 know, we talk about helping our clients
33:14 navigate this new geoc moment that we
33:17 find ourselves uh in. Um, you know, I
33:18 think more than ever we're finding
33:20 public policy, especially emanating from
33:23 Washington uh is having a huge impact on
33:26 on uh corporate strategy. Uh, and if
33:28 you're going to navigate that moment, I
33:30 think you have to embrace where we are,
33:31 you have to understand it, and then we
33:34 have to help companies in a really
33:36 sophisticated way navigate that. You
33:38 asked me what surprised me the most. I
33:40 think what what surprised me uh on the
33:43 upside is look you are right. We we are
33:45 headquartered in Washington DC but we
33:48 have 13 offices uh uh overseas in Asia.
33:52 40% of our workforce uh is in Asia and
33:53 although we do have a large number of
33:56 American clients, we also have uh a
33:58 really large number of Asian clients as
34:00 well. And and we do some of the things
34:02 that you would expect. We help a lot of
34:05 uh uh American and uh other foreign
34:08 companies uh figure out how to operate
34:11 in Asia. We're helping uh a Asian
34:15 companies um navigate the US market. But
34:17 I've been most pleasantly surprised by
34:19 the number of Asian clients we have that
34:23 ask for our help elsewhere in Asia.
34:25 >> Uh for example, as soon as I finish up
34:27 here in in Ho Chi Min City, uh I'm going
34:29 to go spend two days in Seoul. uh we
34:31 have a a really important and growing
34:35 practice uh in in Korea. Uh and
34:37 increasingly we find a number uh of
34:41 Korea's leading companies um uh are
34:43 working with us to to invest elsewhere
34:44 in Asia. And I don't need to tell you or
34:47 anybody else how important Vietnam is to
34:49 South Korea and we hope at the Asia
34:51 Group to continue playing a role in
34:53 that. I think that that's probably the
34:55 the the the biggest surprise I've had
34:58 really on the upside that that we feel
35:00 like we can bring the understanding that
35:04 we as a firm have of uh of Asian
35:07 countries and governments of of the US
35:11 um market and US policy and then help uh
35:14 help our our clients put together a
35:15 strategy that allows them to navigate
35:17 that in the most successful way
35:19 possible. So, look, I've loved every
35:21 minute of it. I've loved being able to
35:24 come back to Vietnam. You know, I I work
35:27 uh I work a lot on Vietnam, I also uh am
35:30 very engaged in our China practice, but
35:32 given my given my background across the
35:35 region, uh I I work as well uh a bit uh
35:38 on uh you know, supporting our clients
35:40 in Korea and Japan and across Southeast
35:41 Asia as well.
35:43 >> You have a very fun job.
35:44 >> I have a great job. You know, I was
35:46 joking the other day. you know, in some
35:48 ways I still feel like a diplomat just
35:50 now I'm a commercial diplomat and I'm
35:53 working mostly on behalf of our clients.
35:54 And so, you know, it changes your
35:56 perspective. You're bringing a similar,
35:59 I think, skill set and you're using, you
36:01 know, the same knowledge and experiences
36:03 that I've developed over decades and
36:05 that we as a firm have developed uh over
36:07 over the last decade plus, but just from
36:10 a from a new perspective. So, again, I
36:12 tell people I feel like I'm a commercial
36:14 diplomat now. And the the other thing
36:16 though that's still really important to
36:19 me is I think for myself and many
36:21 colleagues at the Asia group, you know,
36:23 I think collectively if you look at who
36:25 we are almost to a person, we've
36:28 dedicated our entire adult lives to Asia.
36:29 Asia.
36:31 So we have really deep and lasting relationships
36:33 relationships
36:37 uh across the region. uh and so from uh
36:40 from the sidelines and in an informal
36:43 way, we still try to to to help and
36:45 provide advice where we can to diplomats
36:47 across the region as well. I'm
36:50 passionately invested in the US Vietnam
36:51 partnership and friendship and I'll do
36:55 whatever I can even informally uh to try
36:57 to support the the continue the
36:58 continued growth of the friendship
37:00 between our two countries and I feel the
37:02 same way about um you know what we're
37:04 trying to do elsewhere in the region.
37:06 you know that we that doesn't generate
37:08 any income that doesn't keep uh keep our
37:10 company afloat but I think it's it's
37:12 something that we all feel passionately
37:14 about and and we try to do what we can
37:16 look I I can speak for myself and I
37:19 guarantee I can speak for you know the
37:21 Asia group and our our chairman Kirk
37:23 Campbell and our CEO Narov Patel and
37:27 others we fundamentally believe that the
37:28 the future of the 21st century is going
37:31 to be written right here in Asia and
37:33 that uh America's security and
37:35 prosperity depends on what happens uh in
37:37 Asia, including right here in Vietnam
37:39 and and we need to be a part of that and
37:40 we intend to do so.
37:43 >> Yeah. And um I'm I'm curious. I I
37:45 haven't been living in the US for 10
37:46 years now since I left. Yeah.
37:51 >> Um, how has US firms and investors their
37:54 view of Vietnam evolved and especially
37:56 as of late with, you know, the tariffs
38:00 happening, um, some shifts in in trade?
38:02 >> Uh, have their view of Vietnam and the
38:03 kind of questions they're asking about
38:05 Vietnam changed?
38:07 >> Yeah, those are great questions. How I I
38:09 probably ought to break that down into
38:11 different components. We can talk about
38:13 how people see Vietnam and the
38:15 tremendous opportunities here, but I
38:17 think, you know, we we then also have to
38:20 analyze what's happening in Washington,
38:21 especially regarding trade and tariff
38:24 policy and how that's affecting um you
38:27 know, calculations on the part of uh of
38:28 investors whether it's in the United
38:31 States and elsewhere. Look, maybe I I'll
38:32 take the the first one. What what's
38:34 happening in Vietnam and views of
38:36 Vietnam? Look, I I think a lot of
38:38 American uh companies, you know, like me
38:40 and like all of us at the Asia Group,
38:42 we're bullish on Vietnam, we see
38:45 tremendous opportunity here, right? Um
38:46 in one of the regions of one of the
38:48 world's fastest growing economies, one
38:50 of the youngest, most dynamic countries
38:53 in the region and the world, uh you've
38:55 got a stable leadership and and
38:58 political scene. You've got a leadership
39:01 I think particularly
39:03 um you know under the new general
39:06 secretary Dolam, you've got a leadership
39:07 that's that's really focused strategically
39:09 strategically
39:12 uh I think in trying to position Vietnam
39:14 uh to best succeed in the 21st century.
39:16 I I I have to say I'm I'm really taken
39:20 by his vision. I came here in March um
39:22 partly on my own and partly as part of a
39:24 US ASEAN business council mission. We
39:26 had the the chance to meet directly with
39:27 the general secretary and to hear his
39:30 vision about how Vietnam is going to
39:33 focus under his leadership on economic
39:35 development first and foremost
39:38 uh primarily fueled by uh the private
39:41 sector and foreign direct investment and
39:43 in the key uh strategic sectors that
39:46 Vietnam believes will be central to its
39:49 growth strategy which is you know it and
39:53 high-tech energy especially uh uh clean energy
39:54 energy
39:55 um you know infrastructure,
39:57 transportation, healthcare and the like.
39:59 That that's a pretty impressive vision.
40:02 So look, I I think you know whether it's
40:04 American investors or South Korean or
40:06 Japanese investors, there are a lot of
40:08 reasons to be excited about the
40:10 opportunity here in Vietnam. You know, a
40:13 growing economy uh and increasingly
40:16 wealthy populace with uh cash to spend
40:18 on all sorts of things. is again the
40:20 leadership focused on areas really
40:22 growing energy demands that if they're
40:24 not resolved soon uh are going to be a
40:26 real bottleneck to Vietnamese growth,
40:27 but I'm cautiously optimistic Vietnam
40:29 will will meet that. So that's the
40:32 opportunity I think uh um American and
40:36 other investors see. Uh I I will say
40:39 that um because we want Vietnam to
40:42 succeed, I think we and and many of our
40:44 clients are also honest about some of
40:46 the challenges that we see here. And you
40:48 know the main challenges that we see
40:51 despite all the optimism would be the
40:54 the the slow pace of of project
40:55 approvals including in the energy
40:58 sector. I think there's a sense that uh
40:59 the Vietnamese bureaucracy probably
41:02 moves a bit slower than it needs to uh
41:04 in those areas. I think there, you know,
41:06 there's some concern about the the
41:10 opacity of the the policym process and
41:12 you always hear concerns about um you
41:15 know, some tax policies and the like. Um
41:17 but but I will say this, when I when I
41:20 first arrived in Vietnam as ambassador,
41:22 I had all kinds of American companies
41:25 coming in asking for help. Uh, and I
41:27 used to joke that what I discovered is
41:28 American companies don't call on the
41:31 American ambassador to say, "Hey, Dan,
41:32 just wanted to let you know how well
41:34 we're doing. Um, just thought I'd tell
41:36 you that. Nice to meet you. Bye." No,
41:38 like American companies come to see the
41:39 American ambassador because they have a
41:41 problem and they want the ambassador's
41:43 help. So, I started to develop kind of a
41:45 skewed, I think, view early in my tenure
41:47 of Vietnam. I thought, "Wow, there's so
41:48 many challenges here." to make sure I
41:50 had the right view though, I went and
41:51 talked to some of our most experienced
41:53 business people and consultants and
41:57 lawyers. Uh and and and um what what I
41:59 discovered was this. They said, "You you
42:00 need to start asking additional
42:03 questions of the companies that come to
42:04 complain." And so what I started doing
42:08 was okay, you know, uh Mr. or or Ms. US
42:10 business representative, you got this
42:11 concern. We're going to help you. Let me
42:13 ask you a question. Uh are you committed
42:15 to Vietnam for the long term? And the
42:17 answer 100% of the time was of course we
42:20 are. Are you leaving anytime soon? No.
42:22 We're not going anywhere. Uh okay,
42:23 that's helpful. And then I would say how
42:25 does Vietnam, despite this challenge,
42:27 compared to the rest of Asia? And almost
42:29 every representative would say, oh well,
42:30 the situation in Vietnam is much better
42:32 than elsewhere.
42:34 >> So what it taught me was, you know, the
42:36 Vietnamese market isn't perfect. There
42:37 are some of the challenges that I've
42:40 talked about, but for the companies that
42:41 are invested here, they're here for the
42:43 long term. They're bullish on Vietnam.
42:45 and almost to a person they'd say as
42:47 well that the Vietnamese leadership
42:48 really over the last decade and that's
42:51 still the case under general secret is
42:52 also committed to meeting with
42:54 businesses and addressing their
42:56 concerns. So, you know, there are
42:59 challenges here. Um, I think a lot of us
43:02 remain really bullish that um we can we
43:04 can meet the moment and help contribute
43:07 to Vietnam's development. [Music]
43:15 [Music]
43:16 >> Uh Daniel, we're near the end of our
43:18 podcast. Just a couple questions left
43:21 for you, by the way. Um, I want to hear
43:25 some uh advice from you about how
43:27 Vietnamese businesses can prepare to go
43:31 global, especially in the US and also
43:34 vice versa. How can US companies come to
43:37 Vietnam? Just that one, two, three, uh,
43:39 kind of straight up advice
43:41 >> and takeaways that you can offer.
43:43 >> Yeah, look, you you got to know your
43:46 market. You got to do great research.
43:49 Uh, you got to focus on talent. got to
43:51 have the best talent to operate, you
43:55 know, in in in in either market. Um, and
43:57 you you really got to do your your due
43:59 diligence and and you have to, you know,
44:01 through that research and due diligence
44:04 and hiring great talent, you you have to
44:06 figure out the unique needs of that
44:08 market. You know, operating in the
44:10 United States, you know, brings its own
44:12 set of opportunities and challenges. you
44:14 know, from different regulations in
44:16 every state in the United States to
44:18 meeting, you know, standards and
44:20 regulations depending on the the sector
44:22 you're in. And also, you know,
44:24 understanding the market and American
44:27 tastes and preferences and the like. And
44:30 the same holds true here here in
44:32 Vietnam, you know, may maybe even even
44:35 more so. Um, you know, when I think about,
44:37 about,
44:38 you know, especially the companies and
44:41 the investors that we see uh succeed
44:43 here, they're the ones that are here for
44:46 the long run. They're the ones that do
44:48 hire the the the right talent uh and
44:51 that that work really hard to succeed in
44:54 this environment, not to come to Vietnam
44:56 and say, "Uh, Vietnam, you got to change
44:59 to suit me." to say no, you know, how
45:01 are we going to tailor our approach and
45:03 our goods and our products to the
45:04 Vietnamese market? You know, I have said
45:07 here there are some things that I think
45:09 foreign investors want to see in
45:11 Vietnam, but I I learned early on from
45:13 one of my one of my former bosses, a
45:16 former president who who stated very
45:18 clearly to the Vietnamese leadership,
45:22 America is invested in Vietnam success.
45:23 So when we raise concerns or make
45:26 suggestions, we do it from the
45:28 standpoint of wanting Vietnam to
45:30 succeed, wanting to see the best for
45:33 Vietnam, wanting to see the best for for
45:35 the US and Vietnam together. So from
45:37 that perspective, you you'll always hear
45:39 suggestions, but again, I'll just I'll
45:40 just foot stomp what I said a moment
45:42 ago. If you're going to succeed in
45:43 either market, you really got to do your
45:46 homework. You got to be committed to to
45:48 to meeting, you know, the needs and the
45:50 desires and the requirements in that
45:53 market. And that that takes a long-term
45:56 approach and um you know it's certainly
45:57 what I'm committed to doing. I know it's
46:00 what we're committed to doing uh at the
46:03 Asia Group. Um and and I can't wait to
46:05 continue to come back here on a on a
46:08 regular basis and to see if we can drive
46:10 as much American investment as possible
46:12 in Vietnam that works for both
46:15 countries. And as I mentioned, drive as
46:18 much investment from other markets uh in
46:20 Asia into Vietnam because I think
46:23 everyone can see um you know what the
46:24 opportunities are here. You could argue
46:27 it's the golden age like the past 5 10
46:29 years FDI has only grown but it could be
46:31 actually a period of even accelerated
46:33 velocity of that investment.
46:36 >> Absolutely. It's like top 10 into
46:38 Vietnam. It's not even top five I think.
46:41 >> Yeah. You know if it depends on who you
46:43 ask and how you count. most you know I
46:45 heard it today I had had the honor of
46:47 meeting with um deputy part party
46:50 secretary here in in Ho Chi Min City
46:52 really really great me really impressive
46:54 vision so you know you see this
46:56 impressive vision at the national level
46:58 you see it here uh at the local level
47:00 here in Ho Chi Min City as well but he
47:02 he quoted the US as being number nine
47:04 and and I guess what I would say is you
47:06 know because I'm American and I'm
47:07 competitive I always want to be better I
47:09 always want to see more American
47:12 investment one reason why those I think
47:13 those numbers are a little lower than
47:16 the reality though is is a lot of
47:17 investment that comes in here comes via
47:19 Singapore from American companies that
47:21 are either headquartered or registered
47:23 there and I think those flows get
47:24 counted as coming out of Singapore as well.
47:25 well.
47:27 >> So I I think the numbers are a bit
47:29 higher but I either way it's still look
47:32 it's still quite quite substantial. Um
47:34 and then as I've talked about huge
47:37 investment flows from Korea and Japan
47:39 and and elsewhere and we hope to
47:41 continue playing a role to facilitate
47:43 that as well. And and I should should
47:46 also underscore uh I'm really excited as
47:50 well just in the in the 5 months I guess
47:52 since I joined the Asia group we're
47:55 talking with a lot of uh Vietnam's
47:59 leading companies as well uh about how
48:01 they might succeed in the US market or
48:04 other overseas markets and again you
48:06 know uh how we can help them do that as
48:09 well and yeah this really could be the
48:12 golden age both you know for Vietnam's
48:16 economic development, for US Vietnam
48:18 economic ties, but I think some of the
48:21 some of the household names of
48:22 Vietnamese corporations here in Vietnam
48:25 are going to be known uh on the global
48:28 stage soon as well. Really excited to be
48:30 uh to be a part of it. I know I've said
48:32 it a million times, but I'm really
48:33 optimistic about Vietnam's future.
48:36 really bullish about um you know the
48:38 prospects for for Vietnam going forward
48:41 and look forward to hopefully being a
48:41 part of that.
48:45 >> Very good. Uh Dan, last question please
48:47 >> for you. Uh we have you on the program
48:49 today to share your insights both in
48:51 your diplomatic career but also the new
48:52 private sector career that you're taking
48:54 forward and you know you're still
48:55 speaking to the same people though
48:57 ironically just in a different way. >> True.
48:57 >> True.
48:59 >> Um lots of great insights. Thank you so
49:01 much. I learned a lot today and I hope
49:04 our audience has as well. Um my question
49:06 for you would be uh we have you on the
49:09 podcast to share insights. Who can we
49:11 have on this podcast so that you can
49:12 learn from?
49:14 >> Oh wow.
49:15 >> So it could be not a specific person.
49:17 You don't need to name names but an
49:20 expert in some industry, a sector, a
49:22 topic that you're just really curious
49:23 about. Well, if you're if you're asking
49:25 me, and I'm going to be selfish, the
49:28 kinds of things I'm interested in, I'd
49:30 love to hear from some of Vietnam's
49:33 corporate leaders about how they see the
49:35 same set of issues that we're dealing
49:38 with, right? Uh the opportunities for
49:40 Vietnam's future growth, some of the
49:42 challenges and bottlenecks that they
49:46 see. Um a similar analysis of US Vietnam
49:48 relations and trade going forward. That
49:51 would be fantastic. I'd love if you
49:54 bring on uh some of the young
49:55 Vietnamese, the the up and cominging
49:57 generation that you referenced a moment
49:59 ago. I'd love to hear what they're
50:00 saying about all of this. How do they
50:03 see their own country in its own future?
50:04 You know, I'm sitting here as,
50:06 >> you know, as an American business
50:07 consultant and a former diplomat
50:10 pronouncing on what I see and what I
50:12 think is happening in Vietnam. I'd love
50:16 to hear um if if your Vietnamese
50:18 audience and this this really exciting,
50:20 talented generation if if they're as
50:24 bullish on Vietnam as I am. Um and look,
50:27 if you could swing it, uh I'd love to
50:29 see you get some uh you know, Vietnamese
50:31 and and American officials on here as
50:34 well and maybe see what what they say as
50:36 well. Uh but I I've really enjoyed our
50:38 conversation. I've learned a lot from
50:41 you as well and uh can't wait to see who
50:42 else you have on the program. I'm I'm
50:44 excited to learn from them.
50:46 >> Fantastic. Um if anyone listening here
50:48 today on today's program feels like they
50:51 can help Dan. He'd love to hear from
50:53 you. Uh but also vice versa. If you want
50:55 to learn from Dan and the Asia Group,
50:57 let us know in the comments below. You
50:59 have my email, too. You can also
51:01 probably reach Dan somewhere on the
51:03 internet uh and his team. They'd love to
51:04 hear from you. And Dan, uh, like I
51:06 mentioned earlier in the podcast, I
51:08 think if we did do some sort of program,
51:11 um, with our audience, especially the F2
51:13 generation, they would
51:15 >> absolutely love to hear from you
51:17 directly. So, um, we'll have to follow
51:20 up with that another time. Uh, everyone,
51:22 that was another episode of the Vietnam
51:25 Innovators podcast. Daniel Kittenbrink,
51:27 partner at the Asia Group and former US
51:29 ambassador to Vietnam, possibly one of
51:31 the only few people on this planet that
51:34 knows the two parties. so well and so
51:35 intricately such a pleasure to learn
51:38 from you today and I hope to have you on
51:39 the podcast again.
51:40 >> Thank you. Thanks so much. Really
51:41 enjoyed our time. Look forward to the
51:42 next session.
51:44 >> Very good. Uh thank you guys and see you
