0:07 welcome and yeah this is a panel all
0:10 about the private blockchains that have
0:12 been developed and exist and are moving
0:15 trillions of Dollars around the world
0:19 already and where it stands and um the
0:20 degree to which they're going to be
0:24 opened up and I think the place I'd love
0:27 to start with would be with you Raj
0:30 because you have a prime example of this
0:32 you have your own blockchain which you call
0:33 call
0:36 MTN and I'm going to come out and say
0:38 that probably most people here haven't
0:41 even heard of it but it kind of it plugs
0:43 into all manner of things tell us a
0:46 little bit about what you are up to
0:49 thanks thanks for having me um so uh we
0:51 at MasterCard started this journey a
0:53 couple of years ago where we saw a
0:55 couple of things happening uh obviously
0:56 everybody knows about the public chains
0:58 and the assets that are going in the
1:00 currencies that are going in
1:03 um that is one aspect of it uh there is
1:06 also uh when it comes to trade when it
1:09 buying and selling you need money and
1:12 obviously stable coin is one answer but
1:15 there's also $18 trillion worth of Bank
1:18 deposits as of last um month I think uh
1:21 in various Banks uh some of whom are
1:23 represented here end of the day that is
1:25 a scalable business model for the banks
1:27 it's distributed it's available and that
1:30 need to be available for transaction in
1:33 as well so what does it take to put that
1:35 together how do you solve this where you
1:37 need to represent this money that Fiat
1:40 money that exists uh in some cases there
1:41 may be stable coins as well but there is
1:43 assets that are coming in the public
1:46 chain the first thing that we said that
1:49 we needed to do is is our first product
1:51 um which is whenever you interact with a
1:52 public chain you need to know who the
1:54 counterparty is you need to know what
1:57 they represent uh many of the companies
1:59 that are here represented here is
2:01 actually is assets and they are actually
2:03 regulated in their own sense and they uh
2:05 they but you need to know that as a as a
2:08 person buying or selling so knowing that
2:10 and having a framework for identifying
2:12 those counterparties is essential so we
2:14 launched a product called crypto
2:15 credential first which is a building
2:18 block towards the MTM that you refer to
2:20 so that is the first piece and the
2:22 second how do you represent the money
2:24 itself in an interoperable way the bank
2:27 money as well as some other forms of the
2:30 money uh being stable coins or even um
2:32 uh other forms of value that is
2:34 represented how do you represent in the
2:36 blockchain how you complete the
2:38 transactions now this is not just about
2:41 the capital capital Market assets is a
2:42 big use case that's why this conference
2:44 exists and that's where many of the
2:45 people but there are other forms of
2:47 assets that people want to tokenize as
2:50 well we have trade Finance who wants to
2:52 uh do letter of credits and and invoices
2:54 and represent that in token form as well
2:57 so end of the day this all need to be
3:00 orchestrated so what we are multi token
3:02 network is really a platform think of it
3:04 as a platform on which applications can
3:06 be developed where you can understand
3:09 who the counterparties are you can bring
3:10 bank money some of which would be
3:13 represented in traditional ledgers not
3:15 even blockchain some of which would be
3:17 represented in a blockchain uh based
3:19 technology upgraded but still living
3:22 within the bank and some forms of the
3:23 currency in this beginning to come
3:25 you're seeing some examples of this in
3:27 markets where the bank money itself is
3:30 going to the the public chain but how do
3:32 you orchestrate all this end of the day
3:35 we need to deliver a net effect of a DVP
3:37 uh delivery versus payment use case
3:40 across multiple applications some are
3:41 Capital Market some are not Capital
3:43 Market we won't be the one issuing the
3:48 asset we will not be the one um uh uh uh
3:52 even uh representing the final custody
3:54 of that asset but we want to provide a
3:56 platform on which people can build and
3:58 build applications so we have couple of
3:59 banks who are connected and more
4:02 applications connecting uh Ando is is a
4:05 great example of that so okay so tell me
4:07 a little bit first of all about
4:10 um this sounds great in theory in
4:13 practice who's using it how popular has
4:16 this roof how long has it existed even
4:19 yeah so the journey has just started you
4:21 know the the overall regulatory
4:25 environment um and how uh not all every
4:28 uh every bank is uh ready to uh was
4:29 ready to get into this I think that has
4:30 Chang changing it's already changed
4:33 outside us and and in the current
4:34 climate I think it will change here as
4:38 well um so we publicly announced um you
4:40 know we first did in Hong Kong with
4:43 Standard Chartered um a uh carbon credit
4:46 based transaction um uh late last year
4:48 we announced a partnership with JP
4:50 Morgan uh there are more conversations
4:53 happening um it's early days but end of
4:55 the day this is about platform building
4:57 building platforms scalable platforms
5:00 takes time and uh the right building
5:02 blocks need to be in place we think the
5:04 first building block is really having
5:07 this kind of a a mechanism where you can
5:09 identify the counterparty have a a set
5:11 of rules by which you can identify and
5:13 interact with for whatever transactions
5:16 are that's our crypto credential and uh
5:18 uh and the second is is really providing
5:20 this platform on which applications can
5:23 be built so yeah I mean as as a
5:25 journalist I talk to a bunch of tech
5:27 companies and all tech companies tell me
5:29 they're a platform everyone needs to be
5:32 a platform these days um you know
5:33 spoiler alert we're going to about to
5:35 talk to Ryan about um moving deposits
5:38 around the world and you are a bank and
5:40 you have Bank deposits it's obvious why
5:42 a City Bank would be doing that can you
5:44 just talk a little bit
5:48 about why MasterCard makes sense to be
5:51 the entity that is creating this this
5:53 layer and this platform yeah it's a very
5:56 good question so uh today we bring um
5:58 thousands and thousands of banks
6:00 together in our tradition business which
6:04 is card-based business um today you can
6:06 get a card issued from one of the banks
6:10 and walk into 130 million plus locations
6:12 anywhere in the world uh and use that
6:15 without having to pre- coordinate how
6:16 the money is going to pay you're going
6:18 to go tap somewhere they let you walk
6:20 out with Goods without checking with you
6:22 what what who issued the card and where
6:25 it came from how is that I know you
6:26 everyone goes through that experience
6:28 every day but how is that possible it is
6:32 possible based on a set of rules um that
6:35 on which people can trust and operate um
6:38 so this platform business is not new to
6:40 us we know how to organize ecosystems
6:43 bring parties together in an equitable
6:45 way so that they contribute value and
6:47 they get more out of it from the network
6:49 because the network grows and that
6:51 happens when people can trust it when
6:54 people can uh conduct transactions in a
6:56 trustworthy way identify counterparties
7:00 in a in an easy way and build uh
7:01 Solutions so that's what scales and
7:03 we've done that in card Network we've
7:08 done that in um open banking um uh we do
7:11 this in a and so we think this this
7:13 requires such an organization as well
7:14 and that's what we're hoping to add
7:20 value on so Ryan um over to you you um
7:22 also have your own blockchain tell me a
7:25 little bit about um yeah moving money
7:27 during golden
7:29 week so we build City City token
7:32 Services um the last couple years went
7:34 live officially uh in September this
7:36 year and the pain point that we are
7:38 trying to solve for was we service you
7:41 know 19,000 clients that you know are 90
7:43 plus countries typically on a day-to-day
7:46 basis these large corporates T are
7:47 managing liquidity and payments in
7:50 multi-i so you keep buffers of cash in
7:51 these different regions which is really
7:53 an inefficient use of cash and the
7:54 reason they do that is because bank
7:57 holidays and cut off times so the
7:59 ability to move money instantaneously
8:02 247 on a 365 basis is really what our
8:04 corporates wanted so if you needed it
8:06 for you know m&a activity overdraft
8:09 whatever the cases you can use that so
8:10 that's what we built so you know Raj
8:13 talks about like the network so we built
8:15 City token services within City's four
8:17 walls right so you now we can meant and
8:19 burn you know tokens within City but
8:21 we've often skated all the complexity of
8:23 a blockchain away from our clients and
8:25 that was by Design so you know if you're
8:26 sending money from New York to Singapore
8:28 we meant it in New York send it to
8:30 Singapore deposit it but the the clients
8:32 have cash in their accounts like the
8:35 feedback we got was like one this
8:36 technology is new it's still emerging
8:38 they don't have the resources two they
8:40 don't want to manage tokens yet large
8:43 Enterprises is who we're targeting so I
8:46 mean that seems very similar in in the
8:48 to what you were saying about your own
8:50 thing where it's just about taking cash
8:53 using it to buy a thing or just using it
8:55 to move the cash from one place to
8:57 another and as the client I don't want
9:00 to know from blockchain chain I like you
9:03 are like you pulling away from the the
9:05 trendy buzzword and you're just like let
9:07 me make certain things that you want to
9:10 do a bit easier
9:13 um is so in terms of where you're at
9:15 you're in how how many different
9:17 countries are connected to this network
9:18 right now so currently right now we're
9:21 three but you know adding additional um
9:25 this year also and is there any vision
9:28 of making this be bigger than just the
9:31 four walls of City we actually started
9:32 like our thesis statement our clients
9:35 gave us was multi-bank multiorder always
9:37 on liquidity and payments so we started
9:39 working with various organizations like
9:42 the regulated liability Network RSN
9:44 project Agora on what does that Network
9:46 look like for the future but if you
9:47 can't move a token within the four walls
9:49 of your own institution how are you
9:51 going to connect to a network so really
9:54 building out that with our clients and I
9:56 truly believe success bre success so
9:58 showing value day one where clients
10:00 where they have money where they were
10:02 unable to do because of a bank holiday
10:04 or Chinese New Year last week now they
10:05 can move it
10:09 instantaneously um so what's your um
10:11 success Criterion like what what does if
10:16 if I come back here in a year you know
10:18 what what would you hope to be able to
10:20 show it's really based on client demand
10:22 I mean obviously growing more and more
10:24 client demand because you know the speed
10:26 of money doesn't match the speed of the
10:28 internet right if we think about digital
10:29 Commerce the way that money actually
10:32 moves in reality and I think it's been
10:33 interesting launching the early adopter
10:35 program at city is you know we thought
10:37 it was just for liquidity and payments
10:39 but the uses of different programmable
10:41 money like if my account drops below X
10:43 in Singapore send money directly to New
10:46 York so there's or MMA has someone done
10:49 that yet and t+1 settlement so you're
10:50 seeing these like use cases that you
10:52 know we started very small but it's
10:54 starting to you know expand and I think
10:56 the Holy Grail that we're all trying to
10:58 get to is like DVP Atomic settlement
10:59 right where but if you don't have like
11:01 the cash on ledger to be able to move
11:03 money real time you'll never kind of get
11:08 to that rwa instantaneous
11:10 settlement so that brings me to You
11:14 Caroline because you have
11:17 um like a a basically this and then
11:18 broadened out across a whole bunch of
11:20 other asset classes too tell tell me
11:22 about do you everyone on this panel has
11:24 a blockchain you have a blockchain you
11:26 you tell you you must have a blockchain
11:28 we do plus we have a platform believe it
11:30 or not you have a BL we have a platform
11:32 yes course we have but I but I do think
11:34 all joking aside you know the the
11:36 platform piece is very important right
11:39 because that breeds that Network effect
11:41 we have a philosophy in bmy that this is
11:44 about a fundamental change in Market
11:46 structure and obviously blockchain
11:48 technologies have proved themselves as
11:51 great utilities for assets like Bitcoin
11:54 we started on the crypto uh custody side
11:56 we are the world's largest uh custodian
11:59 we custody 51 trillion of assets
12:02 clearly that is uh there's a way to go
12:04 in the tokenized world and the digital
12:06 asset world to get to that level but we
12:07 felt the obligation to be there to
12:09 service our clients on the crypto side
12:13 so we started in October 2022 with the
12:16 crypto offering for Bitcoin and ether um
12:18 obviously the market shifted a little
12:19 bit at that moment in time but we stayed
12:22 convicted and why did we stay convicted
12:24 because we felt that first off you
12:26 needed that trusted partner to actually
12:29 really enable this ecosystem to thrive
12:32 and to enable the market we
12:34 fundamentally believe that blockchain
12:36 Technologies smart contract technology
12:39 is a derivative of are the Technologies
12:41 of the future to break some of the
12:43 issues that exist in the market
12:45 structure and don't hear me say that
12:47 we're going to incrementally optimize a
12:50 50-year-old Market infrastructure no we
12:52 believe that we're at the precipice
12:54 that's your job we believe that we're at
12:56 the preus of real Market structure
12:58 change so whether you want to relate it
13:01 back to the introduction of ccps csds
13:04 back in the' 70s is or whether you want
13:06 to think about it as electronic trading
13:07 like this is the next big shift so
13:09 people shouldn't think about it as just
13:12 incremental benefits of a technology
13:14 like this is the next wave and why is
13:16 that important and what does our digital
13:19 asset platform do we're enabling whether
13:21 it's we started with custody because if
13:23 you can't keep the assets safe I mean
13:25 you're starting from a very Rocky
13:27 foundation so we felt like putting that
13:28 foundation in place and you can think
13:29 about that as a a little bit of the
13:31 backend infrastructures as well the same
13:33 way you don't want clients having to
13:34 think about the infrastructure pipes and
13:36 plumbing same way you want them to be
13:39 sure that their assets are safe but it's
13:41 enabling then the mobility of those
13:43 assets and the greater utility of those
13:46 assets through the value chain so at BM
13:48 we operate across the entire value chain
13:51 whether it's issuance payments um
13:53 custody financing collateral we're the
13:56 largest collateral provider for us it's
13:59 very important that if a client has an
14:02 asset the ability to now wrap that asset
14:04 whether you call that tokenization or
14:06 other to actually get greater value out
14:08 of that asset instantaneously so the
14:11 next step is atomic settlement so free
14:13 up the asset straight away but freeing
14:15 it up for what purpose right it's to
14:18 then create Extra Value to pump it
14:20 through either into collateral to lend
14:22 it to do many many many things that
14:25 today in the ecosystem we live in either
14:27 take multiple days or are actually not
14:30 possible to do so said very simply for
14:31 us it's like let's make clients money
14:34 work more for them and work more for the
14:37 world and do that in a very seamless way
14:40 24 by7 so the actual platform itself
14:43 enables that where we are at the moment
14:45 in the ecosystem there's still
14:47 particularly on the tokenization side
14:49 there's still a lot of you know use
14:51 cases that are starting to come to
14:53 Market that are really proving out there
14:55 is like day-to-day value so whether it's
14:57 tokenized money market funds we've got
15:00 the very big luxury um to have a lot of
15:02 diverse clients who are really
15:04 evangelizing this space so um we are
15:07 actually managing and servicing I think
15:10 it's the majority of tokenized funds at
15:13 BM across public and private blockchains
15:15 which I think is somewhat unique for
15:18 banks and again that was a privilege
15:19 that we got because we educated
15:21 ourselves on public change through
15:23 crypto so I think we understand where
15:25 public chains have an advantage for
15:28 certain use cases versus private chains
15:30 and also until iiz bonds as well we're
15:32 seeing a lot of um work there whether
15:35 it's through the ECB trials um and
15:37 different initiatives so again that to
15:39 me is more of an efficiency play take a
15:41 lot of the inefficiencies out of the
15:44 market make it run cheaper but also take
15:46 out the operational
15:50 risk I mean so it seems to me a little
15:52 bit as though you
15:55 are doing this incrementally you're like
15:57 I'm going to I'm going to you know
15:59 tokenize a money market fund over here
16:00 I'm going to talk to the ECB over there
16:02 I might dry a bond over here I'll build
16:05 out a platform here there will be um
16:07 demand from various different clients
16:09 and we will
16:12 grow and yet you're saying like no this
16:14 is not the plan I do not want to be like
16:17 growing one step at at a time I want a
16:20 revolutionary um change and I'm just
16:21 kind of wondering when that
16:23 revolutionary change is meant to happen
16:25 do you think it will take a while right
16:27 I Rome wasn't built in a day I think for
16:29 a real shift in the market Market it's
16:32 going to take a number of years but it's
16:35 those use cases that are incremental the
16:37 foundations are there now we've got our
16:40 platform it can do many many things
16:43 these use cases are today value use
16:45 cases they're making either investors
16:47 money or they're making the
16:49 intermediates the asset managers money
16:51 so you're seeing real money then come
16:53 into the ecosystem as a result of that
16:55 so those needs of clients are being
16:58 instantaneously met and then to Raj's
16:59 point then you get the network effect
17:01 that starts to build off that and that's
17:03 why we all work with each other to make
17:05 sure that we compow that so I think
17:06 you'll start seeing that shift when you
17:08 start seeing more and more flow
17:09 particularly coming into the
17:12 tokenization sides um and then you'll
17:13 start to see the momentum in the market
17:15 where that market structure will really
17:18 play into it for me the last mile is
17:22 Cash though there's still a bifurcation
17:25 of Solutions in the market um some of
17:30 them have a real Market fit stable coin
17:31 but there's still a need for something
17:34 that is truly interoperable across all
17:36 of the players that can enable that onc
17:39 ramp and I think that's one of the last
17:40 mile hurdles you've obviously got the
17:43 liquidity hurdles that also exist in the
17:45 tokenization market we can solve for
17:47 that on the collateral side and we can
17:49 solve for that in B and by hooking up to
17:51 liquidity venues that I don't see as an
17:52 issue that's about bringing the
17:55 ecosystem together but I think the
17:56 creativity that needs to happen in the
18:00 market now is how do we bring onchain
18:03 cash in a real way that can operate
18:05 across the ecosystem and Bridge The
18:07 Divide between the security side and the
18:09 cash side Raj isn't that like what
18:12 you're trying to do no so no the the
18:13 problem statement is is real so there
18:16 are two aspects of this interoperability
18:18 that Caroline just talked about one is
18:19 there are multiple Banks participating
18:21 there is a sending Bank receiving Bank
18:23 how does that cash represented on chain
18:25 kind of can clear and get settled it
18:26 happens in a certain way in the
18:28 traditional Network how do we make that
18:30 chain on the Chain without uh
18:33 significant overhead in a standard way
18:36 so that is problem one and second is um
18:38 how do you do the asset exchange so uh
18:39 they're doing the building blocks we're
18:42 not doing the custody so she's uh uh so
18:43 there are different parts of the
18:45 ecosystems are coming together end of
18:47 the day we think there there need to be
18:50 a platform that that that allows what I
18:53 call really simply apps to be built apps
18:55 there's nothing but that is bringing end
18:57 user value to a business end user value
18:59 to a consumer
19:01 they need a common fabric on which they
19:03 need to operate and that's what the
19:05 ecosystem is trying to build we have an
19:08 answer and there are um there are other
19:09 Solutions out there as well um Ryan are
19:12 you are you in the market for a
19:14 interoperable cash transfer platform
19:16 that like please someone give me one and
19:18 I'll plug into it there's several out
19:20 there but absolutely we're not trying to
19:22 create a siloed City see there's one
19:24 person who doesn't want to be a platform
19:27 great that um that we don't the clients
19:28 don't want a city token they don't don't
19:31 want xbank token they want multibank you
19:33 know always on so it doesn't make sense
19:35 for you know that's why we collaborate
19:36 together on these bigger issues and like
19:38 several of us up here on different
19:40 working groups together trying to figure
19:42 out like how to drive this forward and
19:43 you know it's not clear which one's
19:46 going to win right I mean there's public
19:47 private permission like all different
19:50 flavor flavors of it out there but you
19:52 know from a global standpoint standard
19:54 standpoint there's definitely a ton of
19:55 initiatives out there around this space
19:57 I would say you know I used to joke with
19:59 my team if I had a dollar for every time
20:00 someone called me about a different
20:02 network I could retire you
20:05 know okay Nadine bring bring us back down
20:07 down
20:09 said bring bring us back down to earth
20:12 here um where where do you like having
20:13 listened to all of this having
20:16 understood where where these
20:19 Technologies are where um can you place
20:23 that in the context of this just massive
20:26 existing system that we that you are
20:29 part of at the dtcc and
20:31 um and to what degree do you see the
20:35 kind of uh agreement and consolidation
20:36 that's necessary for this to really take
20:38 off I don't know if it's consolidation
20:41 as much it is harmonization um and
20:44 integration but just to give you a sense
20:45 because I think you ask Caroline what do
20:47 you mean why is this taking so long the
20:49 numbers are not um impressive if you
20:51 just look at dtcc and we're the
20:54 depository for the US Equity market so
20:56 you're looking at 98 trillion dollars of
20:58 equities four quadrillion dollars in
21:01 settlement one of us messes this up
21:03 that's not a good thing right so we've
21:05 got to be very careful and purposeful in
21:08 our approach by all means this is as
21:10 disruptive of technology that we've ever
21:13 seen in our Collective lifetime but it
21:15 needs to be deployed with with purpose
21:18 um each one of these individuals and
21:20 organizations as well as many people in
21:22 in the audience everybody's doing a lot
21:24 of great work a lot of pioneering work
21:27 in in in this space we view our job
21:29 because we're the depository
21:31 and there's a lot of philos philosophies
21:35 whether ENT CSD will survive in a defi
21:38 world and who knows in 50 60 years what
21:41 will happen but in the immediate future
21:42 um unfortunately we're not going to
21:44 tokenize everything in one Fell Swoop
21:46 right so for a period of time we're
21:48 going to have traditional assets and uh
21:50 tokenized assets digital assets
21:53 coexisting and you need a party uh to
21:54 manage that convergence and this is
21:57 where dtcc comes in the second thing
21:58 that you heard and you've made that
21:59 comment a few times they each have a
22:02 platform they each have a blockchain
22:04 today alone we heard our hosts here uh
22:07 launched on L1 uh we heard Unis swap
22:09 launch and L2 I mean they're coming up
22:12 fast and furious every day um earlier
22:14 Carolina and I were joking about like we
22:16 need to hire somebody just to keep track
22:18 of these new Innovations coming out
22:22 every day so in in in in invert Le we've
22:24 created a lot of silos one of the
22:27 biggest Advantage the US market has is
22:29 we've got one post trade infrastructure
22:31 but with the way we're growing this
22:33 thing up because of different reasons
22:35 right there's speed of innovation
22:36 there's been some of the regulatory
22:38 constraints that were talked about in
22:40 the earlier panel so what we're trying
22:43 to do at dtcc is not replicate at all
22:45 what they're doing what we're trying to
22:48 do is build a solid foundation that
22:51 reinvents or reimagines what traditional
22:53 things we've done today right as a
22:54 depository you do issuance you do
22:56 custody you do clearing you do
22:57 settlement you do collateral but we
23:00 don't compete with anybody what we do is
23:02 we create the platform or the foundation
23:05 where then they run their apps on it or
23:07 they integrate their systems in it um
23:10 and that is one part of the of the
23:12 journey I think Ryan also hinted at the
23:14 other we have two other big impediments
23:16 that we've just got to figure out one is
23:18 around standards uh which is huge and
23:20 you're right like same thing every day
23:22 there's an organization coming up going
23:24 we've gotten five people around uh let's
23:26 have coffee and talk about standards and
23:28 then the most important component is
23:32 data um until we can streamline how we
23:34 talk to each other with with standards
23:35 around data that is also going to be
23:37 very difficult to get the the the
23:39 platform to call this I don't believe
23:41 there'll be one platform to rule them
23:42 all I think you ask the question who's
23:44 going to survive I think there'll be
23:46 many many l1s many many l2s there'll be
23:49 many many platforms I'm sure Raj's
23:51 competitor is doing exactly what he's
23:52 doing but there's a role for everybody
23:55 to play in this ecosystem and what we're
23:58 trying to do is just is just be the uh
23:59 like the way I think about them like
24:01 they all have Lego blocks that they're
24:02 putting together and we've just got that
24:04 flat sheet where we're just building the
24:08 apps um and the castle on top of it so
24:10 that is the role we're trying to play um
24:12 we're we're very lucky we're in a
24:14 trusted position with all our clients
24:17 all of them are our owners so we're
24:20 owner um we're participant owned and
24:23 governed so we've got a amazing ability
24:25 to sit down and collaborate uh with the
24:27 industry uh which is which is awesome
24:30 we've got that same trusted position
24:32 with our Regulators uh so we can build
24:35 bring the industry together um and work
24:38 together to make sure that we're not
24:40 overlapping but complimenting as we push
24:42 together and this is the Royal Wii this
24:44 is not just dtcc but the Royal Wii on
24:46 trying to do that um I agree with
24:48 Caroline it's going to take a while uh
24:51 Rome wasn't truly built in a day uh but
24:53 I'm hoping with the speed of technology
24:55 and the new things but we've got to be
24:58 careful we can't break can't leave like
25:01 a lot of um debris in our in our in our
25:03 way we've got to be very thoughtful and
25:05 responsible Pro and purposeful as we
25:07 push forward but it will happen it is
25:11 happening when you say the industry I
25:14 mean the financial services industry
25:16 well I mean so you go so you so you deal
25:21 mostly with Equity Securities no no
25:22 we've got we've got a little bit of
25:24 everything a little bit of everything
25:25 but but certainly mostly
25:28 Securities um
25:31 obviously there's a whole you know other Universe
25:33 Universe
25:37 of um you know options Futures and and
25:39 and so on and so forth then there's a
25:42 whole other Universe of 200 other
25:43 countries in the world which all have
25:45 their own different markets then there's
25:48 a whole other Universe of crypto
25:53 um and again like uh hu almost countless
25:56 number of regulators in I mean not just
25:59 in lots in the US but count
26:01 internationally at some
26:03 point where do you sort of draw the
26:05 boundaries of I mean you can't convene
26:07 everyone in one place where do you kind
26:09 of say we are we I'm just going to sort
26:11 of concentrate
26:14 on the fed and what they regulate or
26:15 something like that where do you kind of
26:17 say like we are going to have this
26:19 Garden where people can trust each other
26:21 and if a bunch of kids want to start
26:23 trading mem coins that's fine but that's
26:24 not going to be on our
26:27 platform I think you just said it right
26:28 we're not going to trade me going on our
26:30 platform well we're going to we're going
26:33 to stick to the traditional markets
26:36 obviously crypto is also an option uh
26:38 that was not available to us and it's
26:40 still not available but it's something
26:42 that um is in the realm of the
26:44 possibility right now where do we start
26:47 we start in our own backyard so we focus
26:49 on the US markets we focus on the US
26:51 Regulators now the beauty of this
26:54 technology do once you let a token go um
26:56 it may be issued here but it could it
26:59 could move globally um you know at the
27:01 speed of the network so that's why I
27:04 think that will force uh Regulators
27:06 we've done it before right like we've
27:07 after the global financial crisis The
27:09 Regulators did come together they did
27:11 come up with standards and my
27:13 expectation is at some point we we will
27:16 do the same with with u digital
27:19 technology but for right now we start
27:20 where we know we can make a massive
27:22 impact the US markets are still the
27:25 largest markets in the world so if we
27:27 can as they say if you can make it in
27:29 New York you can make it anywhere right
27:31 um and we start here and then we move
27:33 forward but we all represent global
27:35 companies uh we've got a global
27:38 footprint and my guess is we'll be able
27:41 to influence um and move forward just by
27:44 the sheer uh impact of the actions that
27:47 we will take so it is a it's a global
27:49 process but we can't solve it globally
27:51 we've got to start uh where it matters
27:55 and for me it's here Ryan you um you've
27:58 built this just tell me you have this
28:02 sounds relatively simple I have I'm a
28:04 corpor cor Corporation I have a bank
28:05 account at City Bank and I want to be
28:08 able to move money from Singapore to New
28:12 York how many different Regulators
28:14 needed to sign off on that before you
28:18 could like start selling this to clients
28:20 I mean naen had a really good point like
28:22 we are a US domicile country so we
28:24 worked here first with us Regulators to
28:26 get all the approvals and sign offs but
28:29 every country we roll it out in we engag
28:30 those Regulators as well so like
28:32 Singapore was our first branch and we
28:34 targeted the branches with the largest
28:36 like money hubs as well as like time
28:38 conflicts so you know 5:00 p.m in you
28:40 know New York is 5:00 a.m. in Singapore
28:42 so typically you couldn't set money now
28:44 you can but we worked you know with the
28:47 Mas after getting all the US approvals
28:49 to be able to do that and like so now
28:51 how long did it take to get the US
28:53 approvals you know it was a prolonged
28:55 period it was I mean it's a journey
28:56 though we're all in this together and
28:57 like I'm sure that you spent a lot of
29:00 time with like you know internally
29:02 externally stakeholders to explain this
29:04 technology and break it down in very
29:06 like you know digital money like token
29:09 you know bank account like wallet making
29:11 it very simplistic for everyone to
29:13 understand and like kind of demystify it
29:15 and then also for that reason we offens
29:17 skated all the complexity of the
29:19 technology from our clients like you log
29:22 on to City direct or via API you don't
29:23 have to have a wallet you don't have to
29:26 host a node like all that and like I
29:27 think that gave Comfort to our
29:29 regulators also about understanding how
29:31 we've set this up and are really focused
29:32 on safety and
29:34 soundness raaj you how many Regulators
29:37 do you deal with a week so our
29:40 traditional business we operate in in in
29:44 um hundreds 150 plus countries and so I
29:45 don't think I can give a simple answer
29:49 so in in this respect it is um we're
29:52 taking a very faced approach um uh we
29:56 are starting U International US dollar
30:00 International based uh uh transfers and
30:03 um uh the way that we have done is uh
30:05 this goes back into one of the things
30:08 that you're probing with all of us is is
30:10 because of the lack of clarity and how
30:13 Banks can get involved and put money
30:15 publicly on the Chain so a lot of them
30:17 starting rightfully so for their clients
30:19 and privately but we want to get to a
30:21 state where this can actually be public
30:22 that's the first thing that that that
30:25 that that need to happen so the way
30:26 we've solved for it very similar to what
30:28 Ryan said none of the users of our
30:30 system need to know anything about the
30:32 chain they all interact using simple
30:35 apis uh the capabilities are abstracted
30:37 it's internal um so it's easy for people
30:39 to use so we didn't have to um go
30:42 through um that kind of a process but if
30:44 you want to really unlock this the first
30:49 thing is um how um um how Banks can
30:51 directly engage and how The Regulators
30:54 see it um there are encouraging signs in
30:56 this market for example on that now and
30:58 I would really love to see a more uh
31:01 clear regulatory Clarity on that there
31:02 are other load box as well right there
31:06 is um we talked about once you put once
31:08 you are ready to regulator put money on
31:10 the Chain uh you need to know how do you
31:12 identify Contra parties and we talked
31:14 about that that is a condition that is
31:16 necessary for success and the end of the
31:18 day it need to be interoperable and
31:21 Caroline made that point uh as well so
31:23 that that is another precondition for
31:25 this to scale I think we see all of us
31:28 putting building blocks in place but
31:30 when this come together I think we can
31:32 we can really take it to the next level
31:33 I think we are in the cusp of that it'll
31:36 take years to kin's point but it yeah
31:37 there's there's no Silver Bullet it's
31:39 going to take all of us in this room and
31:41 everybody else to continue to
31:43 collaborate to build to build this new
31:46 digital ecosystem so Wall Street 2.0
31:48 isn't just going to materialize it's
31:49 it's going to take a lot of
31:54 time how much quicker do you think it
31:57 can happen now with this new regulatory
32:00 regime United States compared to four
32:03 months ago it's definitely going to
32:05 accelerate um we're already feeling the
32:06 momentum a number of us are talking
32:10 about you know the oppression we felt
32:13 last year versus this year there's
32:15 definitely more freedom to really have
32:16 the conversations I also wouldn't
32:18 underestimate the amount of Education
32:21 Ryan mentioned it I think our obligation
32:23 we operating across like a 100 plus
32:27 markets across a diversity of regulators
32:29 is to do our job job to educate right so
32:33 that takes time I do feel there is a
32:35 decent amount of that education now
32:37 that's paying forward I think the next
32:39 step though is to really think about
32:41 this from a different lens so if we're
32:43 just regulating the thing that has a
32:45 technology wrapper on it that's still
32:47 traditional with just a technology
32:49 wrapper on it what we need to be
32:50 thinking about is when we move to this
32:53 wallet infrastructure how does that
32:56 break the regulatory environment that we
32:59 exist in today and it will and it should
33:02 if it doesn't it means all we've done is
33:05 just kind of optimized on we what we had
33:06 and we just kind of incrementally made
33:09 it 20% better it goes a bit faster you
33:11 know it's not as exciting as what it
33:14 should be if we get it right it
33:15 shouldn't fit the model that we have
33:18 today because a wallet should hold many
33:21 many many things and that will break the
33:22 model we have today where we have
33:24 agencies that are split a little bit
33:27 more by asset class we should have kind
33:31 of use case driven regulatory regime
33:33 that sits and manages and is focused on
33:35 that wallet and I think that's the big
33:37 shift right the education that was done
33:39 historically was very I would say
33:41 important and narrow focused on what
33:43 does the tech do what are the risks how
33:44 do we make sure that we bring the
33:46 institutional grade controls that we
33:49 have to nadin's point we cannot afford
33:52 to get this wrong on certain parts for
33:54 example on the custody and the clearing
33:56 side that is table Stakes you need to
33:59 make sure those fundamental are in place
34:00 but now I think the next shift is like
34:01 how do you really look at this in a
34:04 different way and how do we influence
34:06 then the right amount of creative
34:08 regulatory policies that can actually
34:11 look at what should be a bigger um
34:13 disruption and a different way of
34:15 managing Capital markets yes I think
34:17 there's a cultural chift here that we
34:19 also keep need I mean we all grew up in
34:21 environments where you had the equity
34:23 team and you had the fixed income team
34:24 and you had the derivatives team right
34:26 and that doesn't work in an environment
34:28 where you've got wallets and you've got
34:30 tokens that transcend them and you've
34:32 also got middle and back offices that
34:34 probably have not evolved or changed in
34:36 in eons right so there was also a
34:39 cultural Factor here uh but we also
34:41 while we're all giddy and we could feel
34:42 the momentum let's remember that
34:45 regulations have not changed yet yes
34:46 right so we still have we still have a
34:49 way to go but I think these things are
34:50 path dependent right I mean like there's
34:52 such a massive
34:55 regulatory infrastructure both in the
34:57 United States and globally the the idea
34:59 that that going to tear itself down and
35:02 reconfigure itself around wallet it
35:04 doesn't have to it needs to evolve to
35:06 start to recognize right so while we're
35:08 working with destructive technology I
35:10 think the Innovation is unfortunately
35:12 going to be incremental for a period of
35:15 time before it catches up and T takes
35:17 off and it's happened before yep right
35:20 let's not forget that right in like
35:22 again go back to the 70s like it
35:24 happened right The Regulators were able
35:26 to come together we created Central
35:28 depositories and there was a whole
35:30 infrastructure built around that boat on
35:32 the r side and then obviously the market
35:34 infrastructure so Canon should happen
35:36 the speed at which it will happen
35:39 obviously is what none of us can predict
35:40 um but again if we're not showing up
35:43 doing our part it definitely won't
35:45 happen okay I think that's actually a
35:47 really great place to um end it thank
35:51 you all Nadine Caroline R Ryan it's been
