0:10 If there's one thing that South Africans
0:12 or certainly members of the business
0:14 news tribe have learned from the co 19
0:17 experience that is question question
0:18 especially anything that comes out of
0:22 government. Well uh it seems as though
0:24 we're being asked to swallow this again.
0:25 This is to do with a foot and mouth
0:27 disease. John Steen Hazen, leader of the
0:30 Democratic Alliance, agriculture
0:33 minister of South Africa, put on a very
0:36 brave face yesterday, relying on a
0:38 department that has mucked up the whole
0:41 thing. Well, interestingly enough, uh
0:43 there is a farmer in parliament. His
0:45 name is Athl Trollup. He is the
0:49 parliamentary leader of action SA, a
0:52 party that is disrupting uh wherever uh
0:55 it does see opportunities to disrupt.
0:58 And I've asked Athel to come and uh
1:01 update us on his perception of the foot
1:03 and mouth disease which farmers are
1:06 telling us is the greatest tragedy this
1:09 agriculture sector has faced since the
1:19 Ethel, in a way, I'm quite sorry
1:22 actually that you you guys at Action SA
1:23 stayed out of the government of national
1:25 unity because with your background,
1:27 having been a farmer, I'm not sure there
1:29 too many other people in parliament,
1:31 mostly townies, who would be as well
1:34 positioned to understand what's going on
1:36 in agriculture because it certainly
1:38 doesn't seem to be the case at the
1:40 moment from what the farming community
1:41 tell us. But you did something unusual
1:44 yesterday. John Cena has a press uh
1:48 conference uh and you went along to it.
1:50 I suppose you're allowed to. But on top
1:53 of that, you asked a question which is I
1:55 I I'm not sure I've ever heard of that
1:57 before where a a parliamentarian has
1:59 gone to a press conference of uh cabinet
2:01 minister and actually put them on the
2:03 spot. And you certainly did. Just
2:05 explain the background to that in this
2:07 very unusual disruptive decision.
2:09 >> Uh good morning, Alec. Uh thanks very
2:10 much for having me on your show. First
2:12 of all, I just want to commend you. You
2:15 know, you you have a a a a business
2:17 called Bismuse and you talk about
2:19 business a lot. I mean, that is your
2:22 core business. And I was very impressed
2:25 that you included agriculture in your
2:27 business focus and I listened to your
2:31 interview with um Peter Keane and Dr.
2:33 Lond from KZN
2:36 and it made every hair in my body stand
2:37 up. Uh, and for people who don't know
2:40 what foot and mouth is, uh, maybe they
2:41 should have a look at that interview.
2:43 Maybe they should start reading about
2:46 the impact of foot and mouth. Um, I read
2:49 recently a dairy farmer's diary for one
2:52 month of what happened on his farm and
2:54 it's just quite
2:57 um, sobering. Um,
2:59 so that's where we are. And you said I
3:01 did something unusual. Uh the minister
3:03 used exactly the same words yesterday
3:05 when I asked him a question at his
3:07 ministerial briefing and he said that
3:09 it's unusual having a parliamentarian
3:11 coming to this briefing because I've got
3:13 all the mechanisms parliamentary
3:15 mechanisms to ask questions to the
3:16 minister and I'm a member of the
3:18 portfolio committee. Well, that's
3:19 precisely why I went to that press
3:22 briefing. I am a member of the portfolio
3:23 committee and the minister had not
3:25 briefed the portfolio committee about
3:27 this new plan of his and I thought well
3:30 let me go and be uh get firsthand
3:33 information. The problem an is that foot
3:35 and mouth this current foot and mouth
3:38 outbreak has been around since 2021.
3:41 That's four years now. You remember how
3:43 long the two years of co were for South
3:45 Africans. Well, these four years for
3:49 farmers have been an absolute nightmare
3:51 because the minister quite glibly says
3:53 he's going to wage a war against foot
3:55 and mouth disease. But the question is
3:57 what's he going to wage the war with?
3:59 You need vaccines and we don't have
4:02 vaccines. And this is what gave rise to
4:04 my question to the minister when I said
4:07 to him yesterday, you say that it's the
4:10 responsibility of the farmer to maintain
4:12 biocurity on his farm. Well, absolutely.
4:15 that that is what proper farmers do.
4:17 They uh make sure that they have proper
4:19 fencing that they can exclude other
4:22 animals that might have diseases. Um and
4:24 the government should be doing the same
4:25 thing. We don't have a barrier anymore
4:27 between the Krueger Park and uh
4:29 livestock farmers in South Africa. That
4:32 barrier is gone. So the first barrier of
4:34 prevention is gone because of neglect
4:36 like all the other neglect we see in
4:38 this country. Neglect of road and rail
4:41 and all of our infrastructure, traffic
4:43 lights, you name it. It's just gone.
4:45 This government does not look after
4:47 infrastructure. So the consequences then
4:49 and I think you said if you don't
4:52 maintain your road you get potholes.
4:53 Well, if you don't maintain your buffer
4:55 zones of foot and mouth, you're going to
4:58 get a foot and mouth disease outbreak.
5:00 So my question to the minister was, so
5:03 you tell us you're going to do this, you
5:04 have no ammunition, you have no
5:07 vaccines. Farmers for the last four
5:09 years have been waiting for the
5:11 department to provide vaccines and the
5:14 vaccines haven't come and in fact many
5:16 of the farmers that have vaccinated and
5:18 been able to get hold of vaccines their
5:21 animals have still died. Now it is said
5:23 that animals and yesterday one of the
5:24 departmental officials said that animals
5:28 don't die of foot and mouth. Well they
5:30 might not die of foot and mouth disease
5:32 but they die of secondary diseases.
5:34 Clustradial diseases, pasteurella, riff
5:37 valley fever, all the other diseases
5:40 that also require vaccines. And I want
5:42 to tell you that honest biological
5:44 products and the agricultural research
5:48 council have been absolutely delinquent
5:51 in producing vaccines. Alec, every
5:53 single summer I get inundated by calls
5:57 from farmers to say hot water, uh,
6:00 gallickness, Asiatic, African heart
6:03 water are killing my cattle. I can't get
6:05 blood. I can't get vaccines. And then I
6:07 contact the director general and I
6:09 contact the minister and they assure me
6:10 that the product is available and the
6:12 farmers come back and say the product's
6:15 not available. So poet biological
6:18 products used to be an iconic South
6:20 African establishment that provided
6:22 vaccines to South African farmers and
6:24 also farmers across the continent and
6:26 even the world. Now we can't do it
6:29 anymore. 500 million rand, half a
6:33 billion rand has gone missing from port
6:35 where they were supposed to be upgrading
6:37 their facilities uh to good
6:40 manufacturing practice standards so that
6:42 we could export vaccines and that we can
6:44 also have proper vaccines. We can't do
6:47 that and that is why or minister pert
6:50 and the arc cannot provide vaccines. So
6:53 when I asked the minister, are you are
6:55 you sure that the people who are going
6:58 to head up this war against foot and
6:59 mouth disease, your departmental
7:05 officials and ARC and OBP um leadership?
7:07 Are you sure that they can manage
7:08 because they are the people that have
7:11 put us in this mess? If we had been
7:14 vaccinating properly, Alec, in all the
7:17 uh district management areas or red zone
7:18 areas where we've had outbreaks in the
7:20 last four years, we wouldn't be in the
7:23 situation we are in now. Putin mouth has
7:26 become like a felt fire. The dairy
7:29 industry in KZN is on its knees. And uh
7:32 you know, I listened to um Peter Keane
7:35 talking to you yesterday. Dairy farmers
7:37 love their cattle. They see them every
7:39 day. Sometimes three times a day their
7:42 milks, but certainly twice a day. They
7:44 know them almost by name, but certainly
7:46 by sight of the animal. They know their
7:48 animals. They know their production. And
7:50 when you see production starting to go
7:52 down and you see your animals developing
7:54 mastitis and you see them walking on the
7:57 ends of their legs because their hoof um
8:00 covering has hoof walls have fallen off.
8:03 Uh it it can break a person. And you
8:05 know, Alec, the other question that was
8:07 asked yesterday uh to the minister that
8:10 he evaded and didn't address at all is
8:12 what about compensation? When you have
8:16 an outbreak, Alec, by law, you are
8:18 expected to inform the department that
8:20 there is an outbreak. Now, what that
8:24 done does is immediately it brings your
8:27 farm to zero income. Zero income. dairy
8:31 farmer, beef farmer, feed lot, suddenly
8:33 you have zero income. And the minister
8:35 makes a lot of fuss about movement of
8:38 animals. And he's right. Technically, if
8:41 you want to confine and control a
8:44 disease, you uh you must quarantine it.
8:45 Any kind of disease, whether it's in a
8:47 hospital or whether it's on a farm, it
8:48 must be quarantined. But if you're going
8:50 to quarantine a business, you must give
8:52 it some support. Otherwise, that
8:55 business will fail. or else people will
8:57 not report and they will move their
8:58 animals because there's a price
9:01 differentiation and they'll move their
9:02 animals to where they can sell them.
9:05 They've got bills to pay, children to
9:07 educate and that kind of thing. So what
9:08 has happened is that the farmers are
9:10 expected to fight this war with their
9:12 hands tied be behind their back with
9:14 their own resources and John Steen was
9:16 asked yesterday what are you going to do
9:20 about compensating people that are um
9:22 reporting incidents of foot and mouth
9:24 outbreak and that are going to zero
9:27 income situation and he was absolutely
9:29 still on that. The only good thing that
9:31 came out of the press conference
9:33 yesterday was that the minister has said
9:36 that he's going to appeal for this to be
9:38 declared a national disaster. Now,
9:39 that's still a long way from being
9:41 declared a disaster. What he said and
9:42 what he's done in this government are
9:45 two separate things, but at least they
9:47 have woken up to the fact after four
9:49 years that we have a national disaster
9:51 here. And I'm going to conclude by
9:54 saying we learned a lot during CO. And
9:55 that is what I actually wrote in my
9:58 press statement. We learned during CO
10:00 not to ask less questions and be
10:02 accepting, but to ask more questions,
10:05 especially when it comes to the economy.
10:07 You know what CO did to the South
10:09 African economy? Well, that's what foot
10:11 and mouth disease has been doing to the
10:13 agricultural economy for the last four
10:15 years and it's still not declared a disaster.
10:16 disaster.
10:17 >> There's so much in what you've just
10:19 shared with us now, but I I want to
10:23 start with the politics first. There is
10:25 already feedback from people saying
10:28 Steen has been lined up by the ANC with
10:31 this portfolio because they were under
10:33 the impression that he would mess it up
10:35 which he appears to have done and they
10:38 were well aware that this was not going
10:40 to be an easy portfolio at all. In fact,
10:42 it's a disaster that was brewing with
10:44 foot and mouth disease. you you know
10:46 politics, you know,
10:49 can it be as machavelian as that or are
10:53 people trying to make more out of uh the
10:56 political side of this than is actual
10:58 fact? Look, I don't think it can be or
11:01 is as mavelian as that. I really don't.
11:03 This thing has been four years in the
11:04 making. Steen Hazen has been the
11:07 minister for about 18 months. So, it was
11:09 already being messed up before he
11:11 arrived. But but the problem with South
11:14 African politics, Alec, is that when
11:16 John Steinen became the minister of
11:17 agriculture, I think the farming
11:19 community thought, well, great, now
11:20 we've got somebody who will listen,
11:22 somebody who looks like us, talks like
11:26 us, and um will hear us. Now, in proper
11:30 politics where governments appoint the
11:32 most appropriate person to the job, not
11:34 like our country where you have people
11:36 like Angie Mocha as the minister of defense,
11:37 defense,
11:40 uh it doesn't matter what color you are,
11:41 it doesn't matter what language you
11:44 speak, but if you have expertise in an
11:46 area, that's the area that you should be
11:49 deployed to. Now I I I looked at some of
11:51 the officials uh in the department of
11:53 agriculture for example that are
11:56 responsible for handling this outbreak.
11:58 Yesterday there were three veterinarians
12:00 doctors that were seated next to the
12:01 minister and you know they are
12:03 veterinarians. I'm not a veterinarian.
12:06 I'm just a farmer and and you know I
12:08 can't question their their
12:10 qualifications but there is an official
12:12 in the department that's actually
12:14 responsible for day-to-day management
12:16 who advises the minister and I've
12:18 searched everywhere. Alec to find out
12:21 what his qualifications are with regards
12:23 to veterary
12:26 uh biocurity and disease management
12:28 outbreak and I can find none and I have
12:30 said for a long time in the committee
12:32 that I believe that the minister is
12:35 being misled by his officials. I've
12:37 written messages on our portfolio
12:40 committee group to say that if we can't
12:43 manage the influx of illegal aliens
12:46 across a linear border of this country,
12:49 how on earth are we going to manage the
12:51 infiltration of an enemy like foot and
12:54 mouth that spreads across our country
12:56 where there are no fences, where we have
12:58 massive communal farming areas, where we
13:00 have livestock in the cities that roam
13:02 in our streets, how are we going to
13:04 manage it? And I don't believe that we
13:06 have the officials, the capacity, the
13:09 expertise or the skills to manage this
13:11 the disease outbreak. The minister did
13:13 say one good thing and I've written it
13:15 down and I'm going to monitor it very
13:17 very carefully because from the farming
13:19 community and the stakeholders in
13:21 agriculture, it is apparent that there
13:23 is no partnership between the department
13:25 and them. The minister says yes, they've
13:27 met with various people and they got
13:31 various representatives from uh you know
13:33 the academic field and so on on on a
13:36 task team. But when it comes to the
13:38 farmer, the man who milks his cattle,
13:41 the man who pulls his dead calves out of
13:44 animals that have got um foot and mouth
13:46 disease, they don't believe that there's
13:47 a proper partnership. And the minister
13:50 said yesterday that the department can't
13:51 manage this alone and that they will
13:53 have to collaborate and cooperate with
13:55 farmers. Now that was good news for me
13:58 because farmers I think it was Pete Keen
14:01 uh who said to you yesterday that he
14:04 manages his contagious abortion or
14:07 brucyosis in his own dairy herd. So he
14:08 acquires the vaccines, he applies the
14:11 vaccines, administers them and he
14:14 monitors the recovery of that animal.
14:17 Minister's DNA said the Department of
14:20 Agriculture must do this vaccination.
14:22 They must be part of the comprehensive
14:25 vaccination because they will then
14:27 follow up. There's no better followup
14:30 than the man and woman or men and women
14:32 on a farm that deal with those animals
14:34 daily. They will see them every day and
14:36 say, "Oh no, my cattle are improving. My
14:38 cattle are getting worse." That's the
14:40 best way to follow up. Nobody in an
14:43 office in Ptoria can effectively follow
14:46 up. And um I think Dr. Lond said one of
14:48 the problems with the department
14:50 officials being responsible for
14:52 surveillance and followup is once
14:54 they've been on your farm, Alec, where
14:56 you have an outbreak, they can't come to
14:58 my farm within 7 days. So those staff
15:01 effectively become disengaged for 7
15:03 days. Whereas I will monitor on my own
15:06 farm, my own animals on a daily basis.
15:08 So this has to be a collaboration and a
15:12 cooperation between every farmer their
15:14 production representation organizations
15:15 whether it's the milk producers
15:17 organization or the red meat producers
15:21 organization or agri sa or agri eastern
15:24 cape sigh all of those institutions they
15:26 should be involved and they will monitor
15:28 and they will report back because it's
15:31 in their interest to break this current
15:33 outbreak not to simply go along year
15:35 after year after year and then tell us
15:37 yesterday that this is a 10-year
15:41 project. Which business can endure a
15:43 10-year project at their own expense?
15:46 It's simply unacceptable. This is a
15:49 government responsibility. It's a state
15:53 um uh controlled disease and if it is a
15:55 state controlled disease and it's
15:57 legislated that the state is responsible
15:59 for its control, then the state must
16:02 control it. But that brings in a whole
16:04 lot of issues and you did mention that
16:07 Stanasen was quiet about compensation
16:09 for farmers but as a state controlled
16:13 disease you stop the farmers from
16:16 acquiring vaccines. So you're
16:19 responsible for making sure that they do
16:21 not suffer losses. I mean it's a it's an
16:24 open andsh shut case in commercial law.
16:26 I has that penny dropped because the
16:28 feedback we're getting from the business
16:30 news community members and we have a lot
16:32 of farmers on our very very active
16:34 WhatsApp groups with our premium members
16:37 telling us that these farm these
16:39 agricultural uh bureaucrats are
16:41 incredibly arrogant. They think they
16:43 know better. They've been informed about
16:48 this ages ago and they actually just
16:50 it's almost like they don't want to work
16:51 with the farmers and they want the
16:54 farmers to fail. So has the penny
16:56 dropped about the liability that the
16:58 state and unfortunately we as taxpayers
17:00 are going to be facing in this regard.
17:02 >> I don't believe the penny has dropped. I
17:04 heard uh one of the doctors or the
17:07 veterinarians on Minister Stehazen's
17:09 team yesterday say that animals don't
17:11 die from putting mouth disease. So that
17:12 means he doesn't understand what
17:15 secondary infections are. And he said
17:16 the only problem is that you do lose
17:19 carbs, a high number of carbs. Now let
17:21 me just explain to you Alec and your
17:23 listeners. If you're a dairy farmer,
17:26 your your enterprise cannot continue if
17:28 you don't get heer carves. If you don't
17:31 get any calves, that's the end of your
17:34 business. You need replacement females
17:36 to carry on your enterprise. So, that's
17:37 the first problem that was highlighted
17:39 to me yesterday when an official made a
17:42 remark like that. But what happens with
17:45 um a foot and mouth disease outbreak and
17:47 the economic consequences are the
17:49 following. First of all, you lose
17:52 production. So um the veterinarian um
17:56 Dr. Lond explained to you that if your
17:58 cows come off production, say a cow's
18:01 producing 18 lers of milk, she contracts
18:03 a high temperature, gets foot and mouth
18:05 disease, she will either develop
18:07 mastitis and not let down milk because
18:09 her teeth are too sore to milk, but the
18:11 production will go down. When she comes
18:13 back into production, she might produce
18:14 eight or 10 liters of milk. So you've
18:17 already lost half of your production. So
18:20 that's the first consequence. production
18:22 falls dramatically. But if you are in a
18:24 district management area and you have
18:27 been quarantined, you may not sell your
18:29 products. That's the next consequence.
18:33 So you lose production, you lose income.
18:35 Then the next thing is that you lose
18:38 replacement livestock, the future of
18:40 your business when they die either from
18:43 foot and mouth disease or uh secondary
18:45 infections. And some of those secondary
18:48 infections require other vaccination and
18:50 vaccines. And if you can't access them,
18:52 your hands are tied behind your back.
18:53 And then the last one, and this is
18:54 probably the most difficult to manage
18:58 because feed lots uh can be given
18:59 exemption where they inoculate their
19:01 animals and they can still slaughter
19:03 them. So farmers can sell uh their
19:06 wieners or their young livestock to the
19:08 feed lots to be fattened and prepared
19:10 for market. And when they get to a feed
19:11 lot and they contract foot and mouth
19:14 disease, they can be vaccinated and in
19:16 90 days or more they can slaughter the
19:19 animals and production continued. But if
19:21 you are a
19:24 stud breeder and you've built up the
19:27 genetics of your stud to the very best
19:29 way you can, acquiring genetics from all
19:32 over the world and you contract foot and
19:34 mouth disease, you may not sell those
19:36 genetics. So you can't sell ghouls, you
19:39 can't sell heers, you have zero income.
19:40 Now no business can tolerate zero
19:42 income. But this department of
19:45 agriculture and this government expects
19:47 farmers to tolerate zero income. It is
19:49 completely unacceptable. And Alec, you
19:51 must remember there's another thing
19:54 about dairy farming. Most dairy farmers
19:56 reproduce or have their animals
19:58 reproduce through artificial
20:00 insemination. So they're not even
20:02 bringing in bulls from other areas and
20:04 putting them into their herds. They are
20:05 inseminating their cattle to get them
20:07 pregnant so that they can carve and
20:10 produce milk artificially. So they can
20:11 manage an environment and they can
20:13 quarantine themselves absolutely
20:16 perfectly. But the minister said
20:17 yesterday, and this is the point that
20:20 really really bothers me, and you asked
20:22 me, has the penny dropped? And I say the
20:24 penny hasn't dropped because the
20:26 minister gets told by these officials
20:30 that quarantine and seclusion is the
20:33 best way to um confine an outbreak.
20:35 Well, it hasn't been the best way
20:36 because it's been four years now and
20:38 it's getting worse by the day. The
20:41 minister says vaccination is not a
20:44 silver bullet, quote unquote. He said
20:47 bio security on farm is the
20:49 responsibility of the farmer. Now I
20:51 agree that it is but think about a
20:53 farmer who lives in a communal area
20:55 where he puts his livestock out into the
20:58 pasture every day with no fences. His
20:59 cattle mingle with all the other
21:01 livestock in that area and people are
21:03 buying and selling cattle all the time
21:06 to educate a child or to pay a bill or
21:09 bring new bulls in and bring new rams
21:11 into communal herds and communal flocks.
21:14 there is no biocurity control. So if
21:16 you've got commercial farmers securing
21:21 their farms and emerging or um
21:24 subsistance farmers doing the opposite,
21:27 we will never get rid of this outbreak.
21:29 So that's where the government needs to
21:31 catch a wake up and John Steinen needs
21:35 to understand that biocurity is his do
21:37 department's responsibility especially
21:39 in a state controlled disease. Well, I
21:42 had a a a voice message from Pete Keane,
21:44 the farmer as you mentioned that I spoke
21:46 to earlier this week, and he said bio
21:50 security is impossible because the neighbors
21:52 neighbors
21:56 uh who want to get their cattle onto
22:00 your land uh or just through anger,
22:02 whatever, uh cut down fences. He says he
22:06 had a fence that was cut in 260 places.
22:08 This is just not possible. And he made
22:11 the point as well that a crow eating off
22:14 a carcass which has passed because of
22:17 foot and mouth disease will it doesn't
22:19 know that it's not supposed to go into
22:22 the next door farm. So this isn't the
22:24 way it's being looked at is it appears
22:26 to be incredibly naive and certainly out
22:29 of touch. But right at the as far as the
22:30 farmers are concerned they're saying
22:33 please just let us get our own vaccines.
22:36 Don't you as the state tell us how that
22:38 you will give us vaccines, you can't
22:40 give it to us and in the meantime our
22:43 herds are being smashed. Let's get back
22:46 to what happened at on that 500 million
22:49 rand that disappeared at the Ornist
22:52 biological products. You mentioned that
22:54 yesterday when talking to the Minister
22:57 of Agriculture. Do you have any insight
22:59 into where that money went? Because from
23:01 what you've said and from what the
23:05 farmers tell us, this was once a a pride
23:07 of South Africa. We were producing
23:10 fantastic vaccines, more than enough for
23:13 our own management of a of a crisis like
23:15 this. Now there's nothing and 500
23:18 million was put there by taxpayers and
23:20 it's unaccounted for. Do you have any
23:21 insight into what happened to that
23:23 money? Well, I think the short answer to
23:25 that is if you watch the Madlanga
23:28 Commission or the Adoc Parliamentary
23:31 Committee uh inquiring of what's
23:32 happened to the money in the South
23:34 African Police Services, the answer
23:36 would be the same. Money gets frittered
23:38 away uh especially through the tender
23:40 processes and people enrich themselves.
23:42 But once again, I'm going to speak to
23:44 what was said at the press conference
23:48 yesterday. The CEO of the ARC
23:50 said that the vaccine production
23:54 facility at onward stroke arc
23:57 uh was built in 1980.
24:00 1980 that was 45 years ago, Alec. And he
24:03 said it became so outdated that they had
24:06 to do away with it and build a new
24:10 facility that um would meet good
24:13 manufacturing practice standards. Now
24:14 that's well and good but you don't
24:18 destroy something but before you've got
24:21 an alternative to produce vaccines. And
24:22 then he went on to really incriminate
24:25 the department and himself when he said
24:27 that that facility used to produce
24:30 vaccines for foot and mouth outbreaks
24:32 and they used to produce about a couple
24:35 of thousand vaccines a week when there
24:39 was a buffer management zone and the
24:41 outbreaks were not as intense. That's
24:43 what he said. Essentially what has
24:45 happened now four years later there is
24:49 no buffer zone the outbreak is now a
24:52 national disaster and he says they can't
24:54 produce vaccines and the minister says
24:55 that they will increase that production
24:58 by the end by midFebruary to 20,000
25:01 vaccines a week. Now you've heard the
25:03 numbers the national herds about 14
25:06 million strong. um some of the vaccines
25:08 that we're going to be procuring from
25:10 other countries because we can't produce
25:13 them. They need a double dose and they
25:16 need a follow up within 6 months uh
25:19 honest to put and OBP um and the ARC
25:21 tell us they have a vaccine that is a
25:23 one application vaccine but they can't
25:25 produce it. So what we are saying is
25:27 action SA and what all the farmers are
25:30 saying is let's collaborate. Let's use
25:33 private sector laboratories. If you've
25:36 got the vaccine, we can massroduce it.
25:39 Let's put a plan together.
25:41 Do away with archaic legislation that
25:44 prevents that. sweep off the table if
25:46 it's a national disaster all the
25:48 constraining um
25:52 regulations and let's go to a private
25:55 laboratory that produces medication for
25:58 humans or whatever medication and give
26:01 them a contract to produce the required
26:03 number of vaccines like in two weeks
26:06 time because we we're not looking for a
26:08 vaccine Alec we've got a vaccine now we
26:11 just need to reproduce it let me give
26:14 you a a a story about vaccines and
26:16 regulations and legislation just to
26:19 illustrate how it can be overcome. There
26:20 was a scientist in France called Louis
26:24 Pasteure and he discovered a cure for rabies.
26:26 rabies.
26:28 Now in the past if a rabbid animal bit
26:30 you that was the end of it you died or
26:33 if it put another animal it died.
26:36 And the the symptoms are very similar to
26:38 foot and mouth disease. You start
26:40 salivating and that's what cattle do.
26:44 They salivate and drool. And uh a woman,
26:46 a French woman's son was bitten by a
26:48 rabbid animal. And she traveled across
26:51 France to meet Mr. Louis Pasture. Was
26:53 not a doctor. He was a chemist. To meet
26:55 him and say, "I need you to treat my
26:58 son." But the legislation and the law
27:02 prohibited this man applying the vaccine
27:05 to this child. And he wasn't a doctor,
27:07 so he couldn't apply it. Anyway, he he
27:09 consulted two doctors about this child.
27:11 And the doctor said, "The child has got
27:12 rabies. It's going to die in the next
27:14 two days." And he consulted the mother
27:16 and said, "I have injected thousands of
27:18 animals with this antivenenom or
27:21 antidote and they have recovered, but
27:23 I've never injected a person. If I
27:25 inject your son and he dies, I'm going
27:28 to be culpable." She said, "My if my son
27:30 is going to die, I'm going to take that
27:34 chance." And he applied the medication
27:36 or the antidote to the child and he
27:39 lived. Now, if you have a national
27:40 disaster, you need that kind of
27:42 intervention. You need that kind of
27:45 leadership to tell farmers and tell the
27:47 country, "We're going to do this because
27:50 we have to do this in order to save our
27:51 industry." Can't say we can't do this
27:53 because of the law and this regulation
27:55 and the next regulation and we can't
27:57 import this vaccine because this person
28:00 hasn't given permission yet. If it's a
28:01 national crisis, and it is a national
28:04 crisis, we were acquiring vaccines for
28:07 CO that hadn't even been tested. Alec,
28:09 why can't we do the same thing for
28:11 agriculture? We were acquiring vaccines
28:13 that have been shown to have been
28:16 detrimental to human beings.
28:18 Why can't we do the same thing when
28:20 farmers are on their knees saying our
28:22 livestock are dying? We are dying of
28:24 poverty and this is psychologically
28:26 killing us. In the United Kingdom, when
28:29 they killed thousands of cattle, tens of
28:30 thousands of cattle, farmers were
28:32 committing suicide, but the government
28:35 was compensating them. In South Africa,
28:37 farmers are considering suicide because
28:39 they're losing their income and their
28:41 dear livestock and the government is not
28:43 compensating them and the government's
28:45 not even backing them up. That's where
28:49 the real issue lies in uh the vernacular
28:53 and it's opposite because they would say
28:56 that is where the calf has died. Uh
28:58 certainly from Peter Keen's uh
29:01 perspective he I'm sure would and he and
29:03 other farmers would would welcome the
29:05 intervention that you recommending and
29:07 it seems pretty rational but he said
29:09 even before that just give us the chance
29:12 to buy vaccines wherever we can. Let us
29:14 go and get let us look after our own
29:16 assets. The fact that the government is
29:20 not allowing uh farmers to do that is
29:23 baffling to me and it does appear as
29:25 though again the the penny hasn't
29:28 dropped because if you are not treat if
29:29 you're treating this as a national
29:31 emergency which is what we are told that
29:34 the government is kind of believing well
29:35 then that's the kind of intervention
29:38 that one needs surely so if you were man
29:40 minister of agriculture to close off
29:41 with if you were the guy if you were in
29:44 Sten Hazen's job if action is a had join
29:47 the government of national unity and uh
29:49 there was somebody bright who said hang
29:51 on we got a farmer here he knows uh
29:53 agriculture far better than anybody else
29:56 that we have around let's put him into
29:58 that role if you were running the
30:01 agriculture department what would you do now
30:01 now
30:03 >> well first of all if you listen very
30:06 carefully to what uh Peter Keenan said
30:09 when he buys um contagious abortion or
30:13 brucilosis vaccine from his nearest
30:15 co-op or veterinarian services. He looks
30:18 at the coal chain to make sure that that
30:22 vaccine is effective. Now, no farmer is
30:24 going to apply vaccines to his livestock
30:26 that's going to wipe it out. The whole
30:28 idea about applying the vaccines is to
30:30 save your livestock and production. So,
30:32 this big brother mentality of the
30:36 government saying we need to we need to
30:38 um apply the vaccine, we need to certify
30:40 the vaccine, we need to surveil what
30:42 happens thereafter after application.
30:47 That's complete madness. The best remedy
30:49 to control this is to give the
30:52 responsibility of application,
30:54 surveillance, and followup to the people
30:56 who have got skin in the game. Those
30:58 officials that are sitting at the ARC
31:00 and the OBP get paid at the end of their
31:02 month. Their salary gets paid whether
31:05 the outbreak is coming to an end or
31:06 whether the outbreak's getting worse.
31:08 And the outbreak's getting worse because
31:10 there's no consequence to those people.
31:13 the the people that feel the consequence
31:14 should be the people that are
31:16 controlling this disease and those are
31:17 the farmers, those are the livestock
31:19 owners. I sat there and I listened to
31:21 the African Farmers Association of South
31:23 Africa asking questions, how are we
31:25 going to fight this? How are we going to
31:27 prevent this infecting our herds? What
31:28 are you going to do about it? What are
31:30 you going to do about compensation?
31:33 Nothing. So that's the answer, Alec. We
31:36 have, you know, the Department of
31:39 Agriculture is very thin on extension
31:42 services, on veterinarians on the
31:44 ground, people that interact with
31:45 farmers on a daily basis. That's been
31:48 one of the probably one of the biggest
31:50 shortfalls of this new government is
31:52 they did away with effective, efficient,
31:55 competent, capable extension officers
31:57 that would be on the ground monitoring
31:59 outbreaks, speaking to farmers, engaging
32:01 them, providing vaccines. That's all
32:04 gone. So in the absence of that you have
32:07 an infrastructure of farmers, people who
32:09 look after livestock on a daily basis
32:12 who are there at the front line who can
32:14 become your extension officers. So the
32:16 government has got a network of
32:18 extension officers, farmers like Peter
32:20 Keane, vets like Dr. Lond right across
32:23 this country. They are the front line.
32:24 Put them into service. If you're going
32:27 to wage a war, then wage it with
32:28 everything at your disposal. And the
32:30 people at the front line are the best
32:32 people to fight the war.
32:34 >> And I'm sure you will continue to fight
32:36 the war in parliament as well. When does
32:38 it reopen? When do when do all the
32:40 politicians go back and and have debates
32:43 on issues like this, Iran and other
32:44 pressing issues?
32:46 >> Well, we've been back this week and we
32:48 dealt with the budget and I'm back in
32:50 parliament. Uh we're having a press
32:53 conference today but um you know
32:55 parliament takes a while to warm up and
32:57 that's why I was perturbed and a a bit
32:59 beused that the minister was holding a
33:02 press or briefing uh to tell the press
33:03 about what he was going to do without
33:05 calling us as a portfolio committee. I
33:07 mean I wrote to the portfolio committee
33:09 chairperson in the beginning of December
33:12 and I said this is a disaster. We need
33:13 to do something. we need to do something
33:15 different because our officials are not
33:17 up to it and I believe they are
33:19 misleading the minister and you know
33:21 we're now mid January and we haven't had
33:24 that portfolio committee meeting so if
33:26 it was urgent if it was a national disaster
33:28 disaster
33:30 uh we should have been dealing with this
33:32 stuff and uh I'm not going to wait and
33:34 the minister said it was unusual that I
33:36 was there to ask questions I'm going to
33:39 do the unusual in unusual times that's
33:41 my responsibility and I will continue to
33:43 do it I'll do whatever I can and that's
33:44 why I have to thank you for the
33:46 opportunity to speak on this matter.
33:48 This is not a parochial matter, Alec.
33:50 This has got nothing to do with any
33:52 particular political party. This should
33:54 concern every single member of
33:56 parliament and every single South
33:58 African because this is a national
34:01 disaster. Food insecurity is one issue.
34:05 But when food becomes inaccessible and
34:08 milk becomes inaccessible,
34:10 this government will import meat and
34:13 milk so that people can eat and stay
34:16 alive and allow importation. What will
34:18 that do to our industry? It will break
34:21 our industry. We have always been a food
34:22 sufficient country. We've seen our
34:24 neighboring countries become food
34:26 insecure because of bad political
34:29 decisions. We can't afford to let that
34:30 happen in South Africa.
34:33 Trrollop is the parliamentary leader of
34:35 action SA. I'm Alec Hog from businesswe.com.
