0:01 Today I'm talking with Dr. Mark
0:03 Brackett. Mark is the founding director
0:05 of the Yale Center for Emotional
0:07 Intelligence. He's the author of
0:09 Permission to Feel and he's the author
0:11 of his brand new book, Dealing with
0:14 Feeling. Dr. Brackett has developed a
0:16 framework that helps kids, parents, and
0:19 educators build emotional literacy
0:21 skills for recognizing, naming, and
0:23 working with emotions in ways that help
0:26 us thrive and get in touch with our
0:29 capability. I've known Mark for a while
0:31 and he is one of my favorite people to
0:33 talk with. So, you are really in for a
0:35 treat. I think you'll think about
0:36 emotions in a different way. You'll
0:38 think about coping in a different way.
0:40 And without a doubt, you'll end with
0:42 practical strategies you can use today.
0:45 I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside.
0:49 We'll be back right after this.
0:50 >> So happy to have you here today.
0:51 >> Thank you.
0:52 >> I have so many things I want to talk
0:54 about, but let's just start with you and
0:56 kind of what brings you to this work.
0:57 So, you spent your whole career
1:00 basically studying emotions, right? And
1:02 as parents, emotions are at the center
1:04 of our lives. Parents emotions, kids
1:06 emotions, emotions about in-laws.
1:08 There's a lot of emotions. I just want
1:09 to know what really drew you to this
1:12 work in the first place.
1:15 >> Well, since we're talking with a
1:18 parenting expert, um, I'll be frank. I
1:20 just feel like my emotional life was
1:23 kind of robbed for me as a kid. Um, I
1:26 had terrible abuse in my childhood and a
1:28 lot of bullying and just felt like there
1:30 was no place to go with my feelings. So,
1:33 what did I do? I ate them. I cried them.
1:36 I banged my head them. I did everything
1:38 that you would call unhealthy
1:39 >> to deal with them.
1:41 >> And just before we continue, cuz I know
1:43 that probably that led into so much
1:45 research and you really like took that and
1:46 and
1:48 >> turned it into a whole journey. All
1:49 those things you were naming, I just
1:51 have to say, were incredibly adaptive
1:53 things to figure out as a kid. Yeah.
1:55 >> Because emotions are they're so
1:56 powerful. You can't stop them. So, if
1:58 you don't have coping skills or you
1:59 don't have support, you got to got to go somewhere.
2:00 somewhere. >> Yeah.
2:00 >> Yeah.
2:02 >> I mean, I you know, I left people in a
2:05 very like dark place with that opening.
2:07 But I am blessed also because I had an
2:09 uncle who was my mother's brother. His
2:12 name is Uncle Marvin. and he was uh a
2:14 teacher by day and a band leader by
2:16 night in the Catskill Mountains who
2:18 happened to be writing a curriculum to
2:20 teach kids about feelings who happened
2:22 to live with us one summer at the right
2:24 time when I just shared what was
2:26 happening and totally transformed my life.
2:27 life.
2:28 >> How old were you?
2:29 >> I was 11.
2:30 >> He was with you the summer when you were 11.
2:31 11. >> Wow.
2:32 >> Wow.
2:33 >> And it just everything changed because
2:35 he asked me the simple question that
2:37 guides in my work which is how are you
2:40 feeling? No one asked me that question.
2:43 I think people were afraid to ask me how
2:45 I was feeling.
2:46 >> Did that feel really scary or really
2:48 amazing at the time or both?
2:51 >> I think it felt relieving
2:53 >> because I was trapped and this person
2:56 actually cared and as I say, you know,
2:57 gave me permission to feel.
2:59 >> Mhm. The next time we talk, we're going
3:00 to do a full episode just on that. We're
3:01 like not going to talk about your
3:03 research or book at all. Okay. But I
3:04 told you we would talk about those
3:06 things today and I keep my word.
3:10 >> Um, so how did that
3:13 shape a lot of your career and then can
3:14 you talk a little about the research
3:16 you've done around that too?
3:20 >> Well, you know, so Uncle Marvin kind of
3:22 saved my life. Things got better for me.
3:24 I still, you know, you know, things
3:26 still were difficult. You know, I wasn't
3:27 sure who I was and what I was going to
3:31 do with my life. Um, and then when I got
3:33 to college, I, you know, majored in
3:35 psychology and I double majored in
3:37 Spanish and criminal justice and had all
3:40 these different interests. And then I
3:41 was still like, what am I going to do
3:43 with my life? And then I was in therapy
3:47 and it was around 1994 95
3:48 >> and all of a sudden this big book came
3:51 out called Emotional Intelligence. And I
3:53 was like, this is my uncle. like this.
3:54 It wasn't my uncle who wrote the book.
3:57 It was Daniel Goldman. But um I devoured
3:59 that book because it just reminded me of
4:02 all my experiences with my uncle and he
4:04 was a journalist. But I saw these two
4:07 names that were like the theorist the
4:10 theoreticians and I called them both up
4:12 and I said, "I think I want to get my
4:15 PhD and study with you." Uh the long
4:16 story short on that one because you have
4:17 a lot of parents who want their kids to
4:20 go to great colleges. Um I got rejected
4:23 from Yale. the basically uh the
4:24 >> the home of your research now. >> Exactly.
4:26 >> Exactly.
4:27 >> And um I didn't have the test scores and
4:29 the grade point averages to get in or
4:32 like the pedigree and the experience,
4:34 but um I went to the University of New
4:36 Hampshire and then got my job at Yale
4:38 later. Uh the joke, by the way, just as
4:40 a quick aside, was uh at my tenure
4:42 party, uh the president of Yale, who was
4:43 the person who rejected me as his
4:45 student, he's like, you know, and you've
4:47 done just amazing work and we're so
4:49 proud of you. I'm like, I want to remind
4:50 you that you rejected me >> 100%.
4:51 >> 100%.
4:53 >> But I think that's an important piece,
4:53 too. Yeah.
4:56 >> In terms of emotion regulation, which is
4:59 my research. You know, not not
5:00 everything happens when you want it to
5:03 happen. And in my research, what I find
5:04 is that if you don't have the strategies
5:07 to deal with those feelings, often times
5:09 your dreams don't come true. in those
5:11 feelings. If we just even use your story
5:13 as context, I don't know, disappointment,
5:14 disappointment,
5:15 >> disappointment, anxiety, frustration, overwhelm,
5:16 overwhelm,
5:18 >> embarrassment for some people, right? >> Shame.
5:19 >> Shame. >> Shame.
5:20 >> Shame. >> Mhm.
5:21 >> Mhm.
5:23 >> You know, um yeah, they're all there.
5:25 And I think that's one thing that's
5:27 really interesting for me because I was
5:31 not the um I didn't come from a family
5:34 that was very into education. And so um
5:36 and I have two brothers and we all have
5:37 doctorates. So we're always like we were
5:39 together last weekend and we every time
5:42 we get together we're always like how do
5:44 we end up all becoming doctors
5:47 and um
5:49 but you know I study and I work with
5:52 people who all have perfect SAT scores.
5:54 They all have amazing gradepoint
5:56 averages. They all play instruments I
5:58 never heard of. They all have traveled
6:00 to countries I didn't know were ever on
6:02 the map. all to get into this place.
6:05 Yeah. You know, and uh and the
6:06 assumption I had when I was a young
6:08 professor was everyone's gonna be
6:10 successful because gosh, look at that.
6:12 Look at the credentials.
6:14 >> And now after 23 years, I've seen otherwise.
6:16 otherwise.
6:17 >> You know, I don't know if this will take
6:19 us off on a tangent. It'll be like a
6:20 side quest. We'll come back to the main
6:24 quest. Um but I I have three kids and
6:26 one of my kids especially,
6:28 it just things come really easily. Like
6:30 I I someone told me this term like he's
6:32 like a life natural like he's been here
6:33 before, right?
6:35 >> And people are surprised when I say that
6:38 that's the kid I worry the most about. >> Sure.
6:38 >> Sure.
6:40 >> Versus another one of my kids had major
6:44 speech delays like had to work so hard.
6:46 Things definitely don't come as easily.
6:48 And I think about the grittiness and
6:51 resilience and and also how much that
6:54 child has to build selfworth inside out
6:56 because there's no opportunity to build
6:59 it based on all of the accolades, right?
7:01 Um and I just wonder if that's related
7:02 to what you're talking about.
7:04 >> Well, what you're reminding me of is the
7:06 research which shows that, you know, for
7:09 kids who are naturally kind of talented
7:10 and skilled,
7:14 >> we tend to praise them for that as
7:16 opposed to praise them for their effort.
7:18 And the research is pretty clear
7:20 >> that um praising for like amazing job,
7:22 you're so talented, you're so amazing,
7:24 gosh, you hit that ball, you know, right?
7:24 right?
7:26 >> Doesn't actually help them develop
7:28 resilience and skills. And then later on,
7:29 on,
7:31 >> I I say this also, it's funny you
7:32 brought this up because you would assume
7:34 that a lot of my students would have a
7:36 growth mindset.
7:38 >> They don't. They only want the A. I
7:40 always joke I teach this course on
7:42 emotional intelligence and I I have like
7:45 you know all these different experiences
7:47 I want them to have. I want them to
7:49 learn the skills and practice the skills
7:50 and they're like what do I need to get
7:51 the end the test
7:53 >> like I want to memorize the correlation
7:55 coefficient between you know I'm like I
7:56 don't remember the correlation co it's
7:57 my own research >> seriously
7:58 >> seriously
8:00 >> like that's not what this is about. This
8:02 is about like learning a set of skills
8:03 that are going to help you in life.
8:05 Well, you know, and you and I, I feel
8:08 like whenever we talk like just go off
8:09 each other all day long. This is going
8:12 to be a 19 hour podcast. Um,
8:14 listeners, it will not just stay with
8:17 us. Um, but one of the things I always
8:20 think about is we can't develop skills
8:22 for emotions we don't allow ourselves to have.
8:23 have. >> Correct.
8:23 >> Correct.
8:25 >> Right. And we also just can't develop
8:27 skills to manage emotions that we don't
8:29 have. So if we think about if getting
8:32 rejected when you applied to college if
8:34 and it wasn't for you but if that is
8:35 your first experience with
8:38 disappointment ever because you are so
8:40 kind of quote naturally talented or
8:42 maybe life has been made you know
8:44 smoother for you whatever it was
8:46 >> why would you have coping skills as an
8:48 18-year-old that are any different than
8:49 I don't know a six-month old you wouldn't
8:50 wouldn't
8:51 >> you wouldn't and this is
8:54 >> like no one gifts them to you by age.
8:57 Well, you my argument which is based in
8:58 my research is that you know we weren't
9:01 born that way. There's no area of your
9:04 brain called emotion regulation. It is
9:07 100% learned. 100% learned. And my
9:09 research shows and I cover this in my
9:12 book which is that I studied thousands
9:14 of people during the pandemic and after
9:15 the pandemic because I was really curious
9:17 curious
9:18 because I struggled a lot dealing with
9:20 my own feelings during the pandemic. I
9:21 mean my mother-in-law moved in. It was
9:24 like a whole crazy thing and I failed a
9:26 lot and I was I go to bed at night wake
9:28 but Mark you're the director of the
9:30 center for emotional intelligence. It's
9:32 like who cares? He's not very good at
9:34 this right now. And I really took that
9:37 to heart in terms of like here I am as a
9:39 researcher and a expert but I was not
9:41 doing well at it. And so I started
9:44 studying people and what I found among
9:47 tens of thousands of people only 10% of
9:49 people said they had any education in
9:51 emotions or emotion regulation at home
9:55 and like 6 to 7% at school. So we have
9:57 people who are, you know, running around
10:00 without knowing or using these
10:02 evidence-based skills.
10:03 >> I think people, it's interesting, call
10:04 them soft skills. Yeah.
10:06 >> I was actually just talking to a
10:08 university yesterday about kind of their education
10:09 education
10:10 >> um curriculum. And we were talking about
10:13 like reversing that like how helpful it
10:17 is how how helpful is it to have amazing
10:19 mathematical skills if you have no
10:20 frustration tolerance. >> Exactly.
10:21 >> Exactly.
10:22 >> Not helpful. It's actually a
10:24 precondition to use your cognitive
10:26 skills. You and I, I know we we see this
10:29 similarly. Um, and so, yeah, I just
10:30 think it's a really powerful thing to
10:31 think about when your kids especially
10:34 are younger. The times when they don't
10:35 get invited to that birthday party or
10:37 don't make the soccer team.
10:39 >> Um, or I always think about, you know,
10:40 something that happened with one of my
10:42 kids where they all got assigned in
10:43 their grade kind of these special
10:45 projects. And some of these projects are
10:47 like amazing and very cool
10:48 opportunities. And some of them,
10:49 frankly, are just like,
10:51 >> I don't know, fairly mundane. Mhm.
10:52 >> And there's also the factor of whether
10:54 you're with your like crew of friends or
10:56 whether you're with totally random kids
10:57 in the first year of these projects. My
10:59 kid in that grade had no friends and got
11:01 I truly think one of like the worst
11:04 projects, right? And I did and and I do
11:06 think about this like I had I didn't say
11:08 this to him, but I have this like sick
11:09 joy of like, okay,
11:12 >> this is like this is where the stuff is
11:14 made. Like this is it. Because when he's
11:15 older, he's probably not going to have
11:17 special project week, but he's going to
11:19 be disappointed. He's going to be left
11:21 out. He's going to have FOMO. He's going
11:22 to not get what he wants. And if he's
11:24 not building these skills now,
11:26 >> well, the stakes are only higher then.
11:27 >> Agree. And it's developmental as you
11:30 know. And so what I needed, you know, in
11:32 kindergarten was different what I need
11:33 than what I needed in middle school than
11:35 high school than now. I mean, I'm 55. I
11:37 run a center at a university. You know,
11:39 the world's in a weird place right now.
11:42 Everybody's activated. And so the
11:43 regulation strategies that I have to
11:46 apply in my life now are not the same
11:47 ones that I needed when I was 5 or 10 or
11:48 15. Mhm.
11:50 >> And I think that's the beauty of the
11:51 work. It's also what makes people afraid
11:53 of it. It's why I think people are so
11:56 obsessed with the quick fix.
11:57 >> You know, everybody say like, "What's
11:58 the one strategy to help me deal with my
11:59 feelings?" I'm like, "I don't have the
12:01 answer for that. I'm sorry." I
12:02 >> I get that all the time, too. >> Yeah.
12:02 >> Yeah.
12:04 >> I have one kid tantruming, another kid's
12:05 drawing with Sharpie on the wall, a kid
12:06 screaming, "I hate you. What would you
12:08 do?" I was like, "I have no idea." >> Right.
12:08 >> Right.
12:09 >> I don't know.
12:10 >> Yeah. Take a deep breath and people
12:12 think that's the answer for everything.
12:15 >> Exactly. You talk about emotions as data,
12:16 data,
12:19 >> correct? So just can you expand on that?
12:22 >> Emotions are signals. They tell us to
12:23 approach or avoid. So I'm looking at
12:25 your facial expression right now. I'm
12:27 looking at your body language. I'm
12:28 listening to the tone of your voice and
12:30 it's telling me like Mark, you're
12:32 welcome here. Or Mark, like I'm not
12:34 interested in you. I'm getting the
12:36 former just so you know. But um that's
12:38 what emotions are for. They ensure our
12:41 survival. Uh they help us to thrive in
12:41 life. Yeah. Yeah.
12:44 >> And I argue that emotions are
12:46 information and there are five reasons
12:49 why every parent, every leader, every
12:51 teacher should care. The first is that
12:53 emotions drive attention. So, for
12:55 example, if you were bored with me right
12:57 now, well, I would dislike you a lot.
12:59 >> But, um, you know, it would just it
13:01 would be that there's something not
13:03 going right. Just like something doesn't
13:05 go right at home or in the classroom.
13:06 And it's not a bad emotion. It just
13:08 means that like what's being presented
13:10 to me doesn't click and my brain has
13:13 decided to go someplace else.
13:15 >> The second is decision-m. So I have tons
13:17 of research and others research which
13:19 shows that we think that we're like cold
13:21 cognitive creatures that were like I
13:23 made this choice because of this reason.
13:26 Hate to tell you this but you know for
13:28 parents like when you've been really
13:30 upset with your kid and you've been like
13:31 at the end of your rope and you're
13:33 really pissed and then you say that
13:35 thing that you regretted. How many of
13:36 you think you were like in that moment
13:38 you're like, I hate my kid right now and
13:39 I'm gonna say something that's going to
13:42 be meaning cruel. No, it's automatic. It
13:46 comes out and um if you were, you know,
13:47 intellectual about it, you would be
13:49 like, why would I be doing this? It's
13:52 not the way it works. The third is relationships.
13:53 relationships.
13:55 And so, just think about it. You know,
13:57 as I said, my facial expression, my body
14:00 language, all sends messages. The fourth
14:03 is mental health. And the last one we
14:04 spoke about already which is about
14:05 performance. If you don't have the
14:08 skills to deal with your emotions
14:09 especially for people who are really
14:12 creative. What I find in our research on
14:16 creativity is that emotions fuel the
14:19 creative process but emotional
14:21 intelligence and emotion regulation is
14:23 what determines whether that process
14:24 becomes a product. There's so many
14:27 things I want to double click on, but
14:29 just this idea of emotions as data and
14:31 information I think is very different
14:32 from how a lot of people think about
14:35 emotions where there's like positive
14:37 versus negative. Right. Exactly. Which
14:40 whenever I hear that just an unhelpful
14:43 binary because I think about a CEO of a company
14:44 company
14:46 >> and someone bringing them information
14:48 that would make them change a decision. >> Mhm.
14:49 >> Mhm.
14:51 >> I don't know if anyone think that's like
14:53 negative information. That's useful
14:54 information, right?
14:56 >> All emotions are information.
14:59 >> Exactly. And some are more uncomfortable
15:00 than others. Just like when you're going
15:02 one direction
15:05 >> on a plane flight and a pilot gets new
15:06 information, like there's a new light
15:08 going off or weather pattern they have
15:11 to change. That's inconvenient. But I
15:12 don't think anyone in the air is
15:14 thinking that's negative information. My
15:16 pilot should Yeah, exactly. Let's just
15:18 pay attention to the good stuff.
15:20 >> Deny, ignore. No,
15:22 >> no way. And so I think that in and of
15:24 itself is life-changing for people. Like
15:27 there's no positive or negative.
15:29 >> We don't. Emotions are data information
15:32 as we said. And I think you know when it
15:35 comes time to um regulate our emotions.
15:37 I think often times people think that
15:39 the goal is to get rid of negative
15:42 emotions. And I just want to say very
15:43 clearly that you can't get rid of your
15:44 feelings first. They don't where they're
15:46 going to go like it's not like you know
15:48 they come out of your head. I always
15:49 thought that, by the way, for years
15:51 before I really became knowledgeable
15:52 about science. I was like, "Someone's
15:53 going to go into my brain. I'm going to
15:55 carve out that area of my amydala and my
15:57 hippocampus, and I'm not going to feel
15:59 that anxiety anymore.
16:01 I haven't had that operation yet."
16:05 >> Um, and I also learned very clearly that
16:08 my anxiety is actually helped me get to
16:09 where I'm at. >> Yeah.
16:09 >> Yeah.
16:11 >> Because I I worry about the things that
16:12 I care about. >> Yep.
16:13 >> Yep.
16:16 >> And if I reframe it that way, anxiety is
16:17 no longer a negative emotion. It
16:18 actually is motivating.
16:21 >> Yes, that's actually so many different
16:24 ways of explaining nervous feelings to
16:26 my kids. They have really latched on to
16:29 this idea of like nervous means I care.
16:29 >> I love that.
16:31 >> Right. And it it then becomes this like empowering
16:32 empowering >> Exactly.
16:32 >> Exactly.
16:34 >> You know, yeah, I do care about this
16:36 test. So, it makes sense that I'm
16:37 nervous about it.
16:38 >> Exactly. I think the rule that I've
16:40 created, which is a simple rule to help
16:43 people, is that if you have a particular
16:46 emotion for a really long period of time
16:48 and it's intense and your coping ability,
16:49 ability,
16:51 >> you know, is you're struggling with
16:54 that, that's when you need to regulate.
16:56 But for the most part, you know, I argue
16:58 and my research supports this, by the
17:00 way, that the first strategy for healthy
17:02 regulation is permission to feel. >> Yes,
17:03 >> Yes,
17:05 >> it's saying, you know what, okay, hi
17:07 anxiety, welcome today. I that's just a
17:09 different attitude about it. It's a
17:11 mindset shift as opposed to oh my god
17:12 I'm anxious. >> Yes.
17:12 >> Yes.
17:14 >> Just a you think just feel it like oh my
17:15 god I'm anxious versus
17:17 >> hi anxiety welcome.
17:20 >> Yeah it is. And I find personifying it
17:22 to be so useful. Like there there are
17:23 friends we have that are a little pesky.
17:25 Like we love them but like they're a
17:26 little annoying but we can't can't make
17:28 them. They're just at the dinner party.
17:29 And like if you ignore them or try to
17:30 make them go away they usually get
17:32 noisier and they try to get our
17:33 attention in more dramatic
17:35 >> ways. Now I have a question because what
17:37 I've seen and I'm curious what you've seen,
17:38 seen,
17:40 you know, from your research and also
17:44 just from students. Is there
17:46 more of an inclination now than years
17:49 ago to kind of quote bring uncomfortable
17:51 emotions to a zero
17:52 >> than there used to be?
17:56 >> Yeah. I think that we, you know, have
17:59 I gotten to a place where people uh this
18:00 I was asked the other day about like
18:03 what does it mean to be emotional? And I
18:05 said, "Let's let's throw that term out.
18:07 It has no meaning. It's ridiculous."
18:10 >> And uh and then people, I think, are so
18:13 uncomfortable being uncomfortable
18:16 >> that they'd rather either suppress or
18:18 deny or people just want to figure out a
18:19 way like what do you need? What do you
18:20 need right now?
18:22 >> None of that is helpful.
18:25 >> Um and that's why I really feel strongly
18:27 about teaching people buckets of
18:28 strategies to deal with their emotions.
18:31 and permission to feel is one bucket.
18:33 But believe it or not, as you probably
18:35 know because we talked about what we
18:37 were having for lunch earlier. Um, and I
18:39 just say this because what you eat and
18:41 how well you sleep and the physical
18:45 activity you get are really highly
18:46 correlated with your ability to regulate.
18:48 regulate.
18:50 >> With parents, what I find is that in the
18:51 mornings they say, "I'm trying to be my
18:53 best self, but I just can't. I'm just
18:55 like irritable and I'm, you know, my I
18:57 set a goal to be my best self as a mom
18:59 and then I fail the first thing in the
19:01 morning and I say, "Well, how much sleep
19:02 did you get?" "Oh, I had a terrible
19:05 night's sleep." Oh, so your best self is
19:07 possible, but you're not thinking about
19:09 what's behind it that's getting in the way.
19:10 way. >> Yeah.
19:10 >> Yeah.
19:12 >> And the point, I think, of all this is
19:16 that people are trying to get rid of
19:18 their feelings as opposed to use their
19:20 feelings to achieve their goals. Mhm.
19:23 >> And that the work I really um what I
19:26 strive to help people understand is that
19:29 the goal of emotion regulation is not to
19:31 control your feelings is to learn how to
19:34 use all of your emotions wisely to
19:35 achieve a goal.
19:36 >> I think that's exactly right. And I
19:38 think a good example is like I notice
19:39 I'm really frustrated with my kids. I'm
19:41 snapping and instead of the spiral of
19:43 like I'm a monster, I'm a horrible
19:44 parent or you know other people would
19:46 find this easier than I do. Like okay
19:48 I'm frustrated like what's going on for
19:51 me? Um, have I done anything for myself
19:52 on the weekend?
19:55 >> You know, and then that information,
19:57 that frustration could actually help me
19:59 if I can recognize it. Permission to
20:01 feel frustrated that's happening.
20:03 >> Okay, maybe I should carve out I'm
20:05 making this up 45 minutes for myself or
20:07 ask my partner to do more, right? It
20:09 would give me that information if I
20:11 listen to it. One thing I wanted to I
20:13 was thinking about coming here today and
20:16 given you know the people that you reach
20:17 and kind of there's a there's a big
20:20 controversy right now out there and it's
20:21 one that's driving me crazy which is
20:26 that being self-aware is self-indulgent
20:29 >> and people are arguing like against my
20:30 work saying things like you know you're
20:32 causing kids to be so reflective that
20:34 it's causing them to ruminate and become
20:36 depressed even and creating more mental
20:38 illness. And I just want to I have to
20:40 talk about that with you for a moment
20:42 because it's driving me crazy. Yeah.
20:44 >> Because people think that doing the work
20:46 that we do in schools or with families
20:48 is about talking about feelings all day long.
20:48 long.
20:50 >> Like none of us want to talk about our feelings.
20:52 feelings.
20:53 >> It's not even appropriate. >> No.
20:54 >> No.
20:55 >> You know, there's a point where it's
20:56 like, "No, we're at school. We're doing
20:58 work. Yes, I want it. You can check in
20:59 in the morning to see how you're
21:01 feeling. Do you need a strategy to help
21:02 you get through the morning?" And then
21:04 maybe at the end of the day, a couple
21:06 times, just like you as a parent, you
21:07 wake up, you're going to meet with me to
21:08 do this podcast, and you're going to
21:10 check in like, am I in a good mood? Am I
21:12 in a bad mood? Like, what's, you know,
21:13 am I in the right place for this
21:15 interview? If not, what's my strategy
21:16 for getting to the right place? >> Yep.
21:17 >> Yep.
21:19 >> But do you see how like that takes 20 seconds?
21:20 seconds? >> Yes.
21:20 >> Yes.
21:23 >> It's not this like prolonged,
21:25 >> you know, bathing in your feelings. I
21:27 just want people to clear that up.
21:28 >> We have to clear it up
21:31 >> that this is about
21:35 self-awareness as a pathway to creating
21:36 the life that you need and want. >> Yeah.
21:37 >> Yeah.
21:40 >> And um and it's not about indulgence.
21:42 >> So a couple things for further defense
21:43 of Mark Bracket. You know, I'm a big
21:48 Mark Bracket fan. Um okay. So I think
21:51 there are extremes and what often
21:52 happens when we have one extreme and we
21:54 reject it is people immediately go to
21:56 the other extremes. They're rarely the
21:57 right answer, right? The right answer is
21:59 usually something more nuanced in the
22:01 middle and it is becoming increasingly
22:04 hard to hold multiplicity and nuance,
22:05 right? Which probably relates to this
22:07 kind of claim.
22:08 >> You know, self-awareness is
22:10 self-indulgence. I think we used to have
22:13 a world of kind of kids feelings. Who
22:14 cares? Who cares?
22:17 >> Yeah. get your act together, move on.
22:19 Kids feelings don't matter. And I do
22:22 think not your work, there's been a
22:25 misunderstanding and an overcorrection
22:27 to the other extreme. >> Yes.
22:27 >> Yes.
22:29 >> Where one extreme is kids feelings don't
22:31 matter. The other extreme is kids
22:36 feelings dictate reality or dictate what
22:38 the whole family does. So now we've gone
22:40 from feelings not matter to feelings
22:42 overpowering everything else. They're
22:45 both unhelpful extremes. Exactly.
22:46 >> And I think what you're saying, which is
22:48 my perspective, too, teaching kids how
22:50 to manage their feelings is in the
22:52 service of making them more capable.
22:54 >> Correct. I mean, you can't get over, you
22:56 can't always get what you want. And >> exactly
22:57 >> exactly
22:58 >> when you're a kid or when you're an
23:01 adult and frustration tolerance is
23:02 important. Delayed gratification is
23:04 important. All these things are
23:08 important. But the uh but self-awareness
23:09 is really important.
23:11 >> Yes. Because if you don't know how
23:13 you're feeling as a kid, especially like
23:15 I was a kid who was I didn't have
23:17 language. Nobody taught me the words. I
23:19 was trapped with my feelings and I
23:21 didn't feel safe and comfortable talking
23:23 about them. And as we know, especially
23:25 for kids, they shouldn't worry alone. >> Yeah.
23:26 >> Yeah.
23:27 >> You should not worry alone. >> No.
23:28 >> No.
23:30 >> And this is the enemy.
23:32 >> Exactly. And so by sharing what you're
23:34 feeling and being clear about it because
23:36 another big thing just going back to
23:39 this whole thing is that people
23:42 misunderstand behavior for emotion. So I
23:44 come in I hate you and I don't want to
23:45 go to school tomorrow and all of a
23:47 sudden the parents triggered and they
23:48 say things like you know who do you
23:49 think you are talking to me that way?
23:51 you know, stop being so angry.
23:53 When in my case, it was that the kid
23:56 spit on me on the bus and I'm feeling
23:58 such deep shame and fear that I don't
24:00 want to go to school tomorrow. But I've
24:02 only learned because daddy's a tough guy
24:03 to yell, scream, and say, "I hate school
24:06 and I hate you." But then I get sent to
24:09 my room because I'm engaging in bad
24:11 behavior that, you know, in that and
24:13 since my mother was not really skilled
24:14 at co-regulating.
24:16 >> Yeah. And so the best thing to do is
24:19 trigger get out of my face. And there I
24:21 was, you know, ruminating in my room
24:22 about my fear of going to school
24:24 tomorrow when no one knew how I felt.
24:26 And if they really knew how I felt, they
24:27 probably would have had a better intervention.
24:28 intervention.
24:31 >> Well, no, I'm so sorry that happened to
24:32 you. I mean that. >> Yeah.
24:33 >> Yeah.
24:35 >> I mean, thank you for I'm glad I
24:37 subleated it into a career of teaching
24:37 this stuff.
24:40 >> Me, too, for everyone's sake. And sorry
24:42 that happened in the first place.
24:44 Um, and maybe actually I think it would
24:46 be helpful to take that example because
24:48 it's so common, right? Which let's just
24:50 start with the word. Some version of I
24:52 hate you or even just I'm not going to
24:54 school today, right? Okay.
24:55 >> I think it might be helpful to outline.
24:56 We could play around together.
24:58 >> A version of my kids feelings don't matter.
24:59 matter.
25:01 >> A version of my kids feelings dictate
25:03 reality and what the whole family or
25:05 what they do. And then kind of
25:07 >> where do kids feelings matter and where
25:09 can we help our kids access their capability?
25:09 capability?
25:11 >> Yeah. Which which extreme do you want to
25:12 take first?
25:14 >> Well, first I have to say the feelings
25:15 always matter.
25:16 >> Yes, feelings always matter.
25:18 >> The first example I think is sort of
25:22 like the dismissing like I um and what I
25:24 found in my research by the way which is
25:28 relevant to your community is that the
25:31 number one reason why parents don't ask
25:35 their kids about their feelings is fear.
25:37 And it's fear from multiple
25:39 perspectives, but the primary one is
25:43 that they are afraid of not knowing what
25:43 to do. >> Yeah.
25:44 >> Yeah.
25:45 >> And so what do you do when you don't
25:47 know what to do? You go to automatic
25:49 habitual former ways that you learn
25:51 things, which is my mother's way of
25:53 like, I'm going to my room and you're
25:54 going to your room and we're not
25:56 talking. That's the extreme, right?
25:58 That's like, suck it up. You know,
26:00 you're on your own, kiddo. >> Yep.
26:01 >> Yep.
26:03 >> Doesn't usually help,
26:06 >> right? And I think that's what a lot of
26:07 kind of parents tell me like, "Well,
26:09 that's how my parents would have handled
26:10 it, you know, growing up. You're going
26:12 to school. Stop being ridiculous. You're
26:13 being dramatic. You're going to make me
26:14 late for my job. I'm going to get fired.
26:15 I'm going to have no money." I don't
26:17 know. Just like some litany.
26:19 >> I mean, there's no relationship there.
26:20 >> That's like,
26:22 >> "That's right. There's no relationship."
26:24 And in some ways, in that moment, you
26:26 also have no curiosity. Your your
26:28 curiosity is shut down. I have no
26:30 curiosity about what's underneath. Maybe
26:32 the problem isn't my kids saying they're
26:34 not going to school. Maybe that's just
26:37 represented representative of some
26:38 bigger problem they're actually struggling.
26:38 struggling.
26:40 >> The behavior, you know, there's there's
26:40 a symptom.
26:42 >> Yes. So, that's one extreme.
26:44 >> What's the other extreme that you also
26:46 want to make sure you're like, "This is
26:47 not what I'm talking about.
26:49 >> Oh my god, honey. What went wrong? Oh my
26:51 god, I can't handle this. Oh my
26:53 goodness. Let's we have to, you know,
26:54 let my god, let's go. Let's you know,
26:56 like that kind of over dramatic reaction."
26:56 reaction."
26:58 >> Yes. And I think another version of that
27:00 is, okay, let's sit on the couch. Going
27:02 to cancel our plans. You're not going to
27:03 school today. We're going to talk about
27:05 how you feel for the next 8 hours
27:07 instead. Right. And
27:08 >> actually, you're reminded me of
27:10 something. I wrote I I wrote this op-ed
27:12 and they decided not to submit it
27:15 >> after the last election when a school
27:18 here in New York City wrote a note
27:21 saying that if the kids were not up to
27:23 it, they didn't have to come to school
27:24 >> after the election. Yeah.
27:25 >> Yeah. And I was like, that is not
27:27 emotional intelligence.
27:30 Like you have to go to school period. I
27:32 mean, you have to learn how to life does
27:34 not go always in the direction that you
27:34 want it to go.
27:36 >> And I think what collapses in that
27:40 example and in my example is there's
27:42 emotions mattering with the collapse of
27:43 capability. Correct.
27:45 >> And I think as a parent, I always say
27:47 like so much of dealing with kids
27:48 distress and anxiety is holding two
27:50 things at once. As a parent, I believe
27:52 you and I believe in you.
27:54 >> Yes. And it and if we lose the I believe
27:56 in you part >> 100%.
27:57 >> 100%.
27:58 >> It's it's it's really it's also really
28:00 overwhelming and feels dangerous for a
28:01 kid because they're like well I'm
28:03 overwhelmed by this.
28:05 >> My parent is overwhelmed by this. Like
28:07 where do I start and you end?
28:08 >> But what you're doing there is you're
28:11 instilling a growth mindset in in terms
28:13 of and around emotion regulation in
28:14 particular. So if your kid is like doing
28:16 a climbing thing and they're oh I think
28:18 I'm going to fall. You're like honey I'm
28:20 watching you and I understand that
28:21 you're feeling afraid. I would be
28:23 afraid, too. It's a little scary the
28:25 first time, but I know you can do this.
28:26 >> And so, I'm gonna stand there. I'm gonna
28:28 watch you. I'm even gonna coach you a
28:28 little bit.
28:30 >> But I just know that you're gonna be
28:32 able to do this. I got I got you.
28:35 >> That second part, the and I know I often
28:38 visualize, you know, I need to see a
28:40 more capable version of my kid, then
28:42 they can access themselves in that
28:44 moment. Because if I can't see that for
28:46 them, like they they're not going to get
28:46 that from me. >> Exactly.
28:47 >> Exactly.
28:48 >> And so, okay, so what's in the middle?
28:50 So, we have a kid. I'm not going to
28:52 school today. Right? So, let's say we're
28:55 like, "Okay, not doing the two extremes in
28:55 in
28:57 >> the middle." It's like, "Honey, tell me
28:59 what happened. What's going on?"
29:01 >> And it's not this 4-hour conversation.
29:03 It's really getting to know the
29:04 experience. You know, honey, I did
29:06 notice that your facial expression was
29:08 different today. So, my hunch is that
29:09 maybe something happened at school yesterday.
29:10 yesterday.
29:12 >> Can we chat about it?
29:14 >> And then you you're in learning mode.
29:16 >> Mhm. But the learning mode is not to
29:18 then say, well, like you should, you
29:20 know, suck it up or like, oh my god. The
29:22 learning mode is to help engage in
29:23 problem solving mode.
29:25 >> I have something that a new research
29:27 finding that you're going to love.
29:29 >> So, in my research when I've interviewed
29:32 now, I'm going to say 15,000 people
29:34 >> about their childhoods
29:37 about the people who created the
29:39 conditions for them to kind of thrive.
29:42 There are three characteristics.
29:45 The verse is non-judgmental.
29:48 And as we know, people I think most of
29:50 us felt judged from the moment we came
29:52 out of our mother's womb just to be
29:54 blunt, you know, like you're not smart
29:55 enough, you're not you're too dark,
29:57 you're too light, you're too tall,
29:58 you're too short, your nose is too big,
30:00 your nose, whatever it is, it's like
30:02 it's just endlessly judged. And people
30:03 are saying, I just want to be around
30:05 someone who doesn't judge me. Please
30:07 don't judge me. The second is the
30:10 listening piece. Can you just listen?
30:13 Please don't jump in all the time. Just listen.
30:14 listen.
30:17 And the third is compassion.
30:19 Now, importantly, what I want to say
30:21 about this is that in the thousands of
30:24 people that I've studied, no one ever
30:25 says that the person who created the
30:27 best conditions for them when they were
30:32 young was smart or a problem solver.
30:35 I find that incredible because I don't
30:36 think people are looking for other
30:39 people to fix them. I think people are
30:40 looking for people to create the
30:42 conditions for them to thrive and to ask
30:44 them good questions so they can develop
30:46 the critical thinking skills to then
30:49 problem solve for themselves. And I
30:50 don't think that we create the
30:52 conditions for that as much as we
30:56 should. And by the way, only um onethird
30:59 of 15,000 people that I studied said
31:00 they had someone like that when they're
31:01 growing up.
31:03 >> I I've I don't know if I'm I'm unable to
31:05 snap. We could talk about that later,
31:06 but I've never wanted to snap when you
31:08 were I really felt the urge to snap for you.
31:08 you. >> Yeah,
31:09 >> Yeah,
31:12 >> I was showing off, but okay. Um,
31:13 >> you can cope.
31:14 >> Yeah, I can cope. I can I can do hard
31:19 things. Um, you know, no one's saying
31:20 the adult that really helped the most
31:22 was smart or a problem solver and how,
31:23 you know, we don't really want to be
31:25 fixed. The other part of that that I
31:28 think so powerful for parents to
31:32 remember is when you see your kid as
31:34 being able to be capable, as being able
31:36 to be resilient,
31:38 >> you set up conditions for them to access
31:39 that in them. >> Correct?
31:39 >> Correct?
31:41 >> Every time we say to our kids like, "Let
31:43 me do that for you or I'll fix this."
31:45 Whether it's literally opening the
31:48 Play-Doh jar or it's, "You weren't
31:49 invited to that birthday party. I'm just
31:51 going to create a slumber party for you
31:52 on that same date and we're going to
31:53 invite more people and it's going to be
31:55 more fun. We're actually saying to our
31:57 kids, I don't think you are capable of
31:59 coping with this, which is the mirror of
32:00 they take in.
32:02 >> And so you're bringing up another piece
32:03 of the research which I just remembered
32:06 which is the second factor is time
32:08 >> that nobody has the patience to like
32:09 that let their kids figure it out. They
32:11 just want to get it done for them.
32:11 >> I know.
32:13 >> It's like you know what honey just do
32:14 that. Let let you know move on. Like
32:16 just just go say go say you're sorry. Go
32:18 apologize. And it's, you know, saying
32:20 you're sorry doesn't really mean
32:24 anything as we know. And so just like we
32:26 we just want it to be done so we can go
32:27 back to our phones
32:30 >> or, you know, or do something else. And
32:32 people don't have the patience to be present.
32:33 present.
32:35 >> You know, I've been talking about this a
32:36 lot and it's resonating because I think
32:38 it goes to what you're saying that the
32:40 most underutilized parenting strategy in
32:42 a hard moment is doing nothing. >> Yes.
32:43 >> Yes.
32:45 >> Right. And I tell people, you should
32:47 think about doing nothing with a capital
32:49 D and a capital N because then you won't
32:51 think, I'm just doing nothing. No, no,
32:53 you are choosing doing nothing. It's
32:55 like a very hard strategy to use in 2025.
32:57 2025.
32:59 >> You wait and you trust. And the apology
33:01 is such an interesting one because I
33:03 have a kid who if in the moment
33:04 >> you say like, are you going to say
33:06 sorry? I mean, shut down completely. But
33:09 if you wait and trust and do nothing,
33:11 the authentic apology that comes from
33:14 him is the best apology I've ever heard
33:15 from a kid.
33:17 >> But you have to you actually have to
33:20 trust yourself and your kid more than
33:22 you trust that exact moment,
33:23 >> which is hard.
33:25 >> It is. And I find another piece of this
33:27 is the role modeling.
33:29 >> Yeah. is, you know, I joke about this,
33:32 but my mom had a phrase, this is a 1970s
33:34 phrase, probably where whenever things
33:37 would go wrong, she' I'm going to have a
33:40 breakdown. And I caught myself a couple
33:42 years ago on a flight and I was like
33:43 overwhelmed and somebody said, "You
33:46 doing like I'm having a breakdown." And
33:48 it's, you know, I picked that up.
33:50 >> And so we're picking up the strategies
33:52 obviously that our parents are, everyone
33:53 is showing us.
33:56 >> Yeah. And so you know if you're not and
33:58 this is the I think this is where the
34:00 explicit versus the implicit learning
34:03 happens whereas if we're modeling healthy
34:04 healthy
34:05 >> selft talk
34:07 >> if we're modeling healthy reaching out
34:10 for support you know I give an example a
34:12 lot with cuz you know in my research by
34:14 the way and I my hunch is that you got a
34:16 lot of moms who listen we got to get
34:18 more dads on this my my goal you know
34:20 for this new journey with my book
34:22 dealing with feeling is to get more dads
34:25 involved because I have found that um
34:28 only 3% of people think of their father
34:29 as the person who gave them permission
34:33 to feel. 3%.
34:36 That's a it's a very
34:39 I mean to me it's an alarming statistic
34:41 >> that no one sees their father as the
34:43 person who gave them that permission to
34:47 feel. And so the um the point of me
34:50 telling you this is people think this is
34:52 like such hard work to be a good role
34:56 model. But imagine this. I'm daddy and I
34:58 had a really rough day at work. Like
35:00 just a rough day at work. Like I got
35:01 into a fight with a colleague and I'm
35:03 irritable and I come home and you're
35:05 there as my daughter and you're like,
35:06 "Daddy, I want to play. Daddy, I want to
35:08 play." And daddy is like not in the mood
35:11 to play. And so what my father would
35:12 have done would be like, you know,
35:14 honey, get out of my face, you know, or
35:15 go to your room or go watch television
35:18 or, you know, go get a snack. But what
35:19 if it looked a little different? What if
35:23 it was, honey, I recognize you want to
35:24 play and I just want to let you know,
35:26 Daddy had a really rough day at work.
35:27 Actually, what happened is I said
35:29 something that was not kind to one of my
35:31 friends at work, and I feel terrible
35:33 about it. And I need a little bit of
35:34 time to just think about what I'm going
35:37 to say to him tomorrow. And if it's okay
35:39 with you, I want to be with you, but
35:41 now's not the best time. I just need a
35:43 few minutes to just kind of settle and
35:44 think about it, and then when I come
35:46 back, uh, we'll go take that walk or
35:48 we're going to play that game. So, what
35:50 did I do there? A, um, daddy has strong
35:53 feelings. B, daddy's okay sharing those
35:57 feelings. C, daddy's reflective.
35:59 D, daddy problem solves and thinks about
36:02 like solutions. Um, E, daddy sometimes
36:04 needs a little space to, you know,
36:05 reflect and think through things. All
36:07 that happened in a matter of a minute. >> Yeah.
36:08 >> Yeah.
36:11 >> But people don't think that that's the
36:12 right thing to do for some reason. Or
36:13 they don't think that
36:15 >> actually saying it out loud to their kid
36:17 is actually teaching them.
36:18 >> You know, I think there's also
36:21 confusion. I'm not supposed to cry in
36:23 front of my kids. I'm not supposed to
36:25 put my emotions onto my kids. Yeah.
36:27 Putting your emotions onto your kids,
36:30 ironically, probably comes from not
36:32 managing or verbalizing your emotions.
36:34 So they do kind of almost come out of
36:36 your head and they come out onto other
36:39 people and you're really talking about
36:41 regulating out loud.
36:43 >> Exactly. Actually, you reminded me of a
36:45 I've you know I do so much public
36:47 speaking that I get these people come up
36:49 to me and so a lot of dads come up to me
36:52 afterwards like dude you're vulnerable
36:55 and I'm like yeah and but it took me you
36:56 know I was 49 by the time I was like
36:58 public with my whole life story. So, you
37:00 know, it takes time for people, don't
37:02 worry. But, you know, and I share a lot
37:04 about the terrible bullying that I had.
37:05 And this one dad came up to me and he
37:08 said, "You know, Mark, I could never share
37:10 share
37:12 what you shared with us if it were me to
37:14 my kid."
37:16 >> And I said, "Well, tell me why." And he
37:18 said, "Well, my kid would think I was weak."
37:20 weak."
37:22 And I said, "Can we just pause for a
37:24 minute and just chat?" And I said, 'Well,
37:26 'Well,
37:28 what if your kid was being bullied right
37:30 now? How do you think that approach, you
37:32 know, would help or not help your kid?
37:34 And then the guy started crying with me.
37:37 And he's like, "Yeah, you know, it just
37:39 I just never really learned, you know,
37:40 this vulnerability thing, this sharing,
37:42 you know, my what happened to me as a
37:44 kid. I just never learned it. And I've
37:46 been stuck with not expressing it for 40
37:49 years or 30 years. And I just don't I
37:50 don't have the skill." And it goes back
37:54 to again the skill. the skill. And the
37:56 truth is, anytime we do something new
37:58 and anytime we do something new that's
37:59 completely different than all the
38:02 generations before us, it's going to
38:04 actually feel scary because our body is
38:06 doing something for the very first time.
38:07 It's unknown. It's going to be awkward.
38:09 And so I I think that's such an
38:11 important piece of it. Okay, I'm going
38:12 to talk about the rough day I had and
38:14 just name that and say, I need space cuz
38:16 I'm feeling frustrated and I need a
38:19 little time. When your body starts, I
38:20 don't know, having a racing heart at the
38:22 thought of doing that. I feel like our
38:24 brain tries to make sense of that by
38:25 saying, "I shouldn't do that." But
38:27 actually, your brain can make sense of
38:28 it differently.
38:29 >> I've never done this before. Of course,
38:31 my heart is racing. That's not a sign
38:32 I'm doing something wrong. It's a sign
38:34 I'm doing something new.
38:35 >> Yeah. And actually, now you're reminding
38:37 me of another area of research of mine,
38:39 which is kind of studying this concept
38:41 of becoming the best version of yourself.
38:42 yourself.
38:45 And so it's an exercise that I think
38:49 it's very helpful for parents to do,
38:50 which is just to take a moment and
38:53 imagine how you want to be seen and
38:55 talked about and experienced.
38:58 >> So if I were to ask you then, Dr. Becky
39:00 >> as a mom,
39:03 think about the attributes of the mom
39:06 that you want your kids to see, that you
39:08 want your kids to experience.
39:12 Present, connected, curious.
39:13 curious. >> Yeah.
39:14 >> Yeah.
39:15 >> Same team.
39:18 >> Nice. So, present, curious, connected,
39:21 same team. And so, in the moment when
39:22 your kid is like getting under your
39:24 skin, it's hard to show up as present,
39:29 connected, etc. But what if tonight
39:32 before you walk into your apartment, you
39:34 take a deep breath and you say, "I've
39:38 set a goal. I'm a mom who wants to be
39:42 seen as connected, you know, as present,
39:44 etc. And then kind of just visualize
39:46 that as you walk through the door. Do
39:48 you think that would
39:49 >> Yeah, I think you're talking about the
39:52 essence of reggrounding ourselves in our values.
39:52 values.
39:53 >> Exactly. Mhm.
39:55 >> And when we're, you know, with the
39:56 world, when we're on social media, when
39:58 we're running on the subways and we're
39:59 coming home and we're hectic and we're
40:01 thinking, "Oh my gosh, I have this work
40:03 to do yet and I got to make dinner and
40:04 then I got to put the kids to bed and I
40:05 got to do this problem solving for
40:07 tomorrow, blah blah blah blah blah." And
40:09 then we get activated those values and
40:12 that version of oursel gets dismissed.
40:14 And so it's a practice.
40:15 >> Yes, it is.
40:16 >> Just like yoga. >> Exactly.
40:16 >> Exactly.
40:18 >> Never ends. Right.
40:19 >> And I have, you know, I do a lot of work
40:21 here in the city as you do. I have a a
40:22 friend who's a principal of a school
40:25 downtown and he takes the bus in from
40:28 Brooklyn and he drives by the um Empire
40:32 the um Statue of Liberty and he he uses
40:34 that as his method
40:35 >> and he looks at the Statue of Liberty
40:37 and he reminds himself of the principle
40:39 he wants to be,
40:40 >> you know, and then on the way home as
40:41 the parent he wants to be. Isn't that beautiful?
40:42 beautiful?
40:43 >> Nothing like Lady Liberty to hold you accountable.
40:44 accountable.
40:44 >> Love it.
40:46 >> Never thought about Lady Liberty as my
40:47 accountability buddy, but I might have
40:50 to change my commute. I love that.
40:52 If parents listening,
40:55 you know, want to take what you're
40:57 talking about and make a couple small
40:58 shifts or something that feels actionable,
41:00 actionable,
41:01 like what are your what are your top go-tos?
41:02 go-tos?
41:05 >> The top go-to is to just have a mindset
41:07 that there's no such thing as a bad emotion.
41:08 emotion.
41:11 >> That you know what, the feeling is a
41:13 feeling. You could make it want to go
41:14 away, but it's there for a reason
41:18 because emotions come unbidden.
41:21 I think the second is,
41:23 and this is a big one for me because I
41:26 grew up and I still have, my automatic
41:29 go-to is self-criticism.
41:32 And I can only remember
41:36 um being criticized. It's terrible. And
41:37 I'm convinced that most of us have been
41:39 gaslighted by people in our development,
41:41 in our childhoods,
41:42 >> and we just start believing it. It
41:44 becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
41:47 >> No one ever taught us to sift through
41:49 the way other people were talking about
41:51 us and then it metastasizes and it
41:53 becomes your identity. And so I just
41:55 want to encourage people to move from self-criticism
41:57 self-criticism
42:00 or other criticism to self-compassion
42:02 and other compassion. And that alone I
42:04 think could make you know a huge difference.
42:05 difference. >> Yeah.
42:06 >> Yeah.
42:06 >> I'll give you one more. >> Great.
42:08 >> Great.
42:09 >> Um I got hundreds but I'll give you my
42:10 top three for today.
42:11 >> Top threes.
42:15 >> My third one is um it might be
42:17 surprising. It's to have an other
42:20 orientation. I think that we have become
42:23 such a me culture. I'm I'm feeling this
42:25 way and it's my thing and I had this
42:26 with you know during the pandemic my
42:28 mother-in-law got stuck with us for a
42:31 variety of reasons because of um you
42:33 know the pandemic. She's from Panama and
42:35 she couldn't go back and it's like it
42:38 ruined my routine you know like I like
42:39 to have coffee alone in the morning. I
42:40 don't want to have coffee with my
42:43 mother-in-law staring at me. And all I
42:45 realized was after six months for me to
42:47 realize is like I'm a narcissist
42:49 basically. It's like you're in my house
42:51 and I'm feeling this way and I want
42:53 >> yourself critical voice Mark.
42:55 >> Yeah, you're right. So, thank you for
42:57 the awareness.
42:59 And then, you know, I came down one
43:01 morning and I realized I had no
43:03 curiosity about my mother-in-law. Here
43:05 was an 81-year-old woman who doesn't
43:07 speak any English, who is stuck in
43:09 America during a pandemic, whose like
43:10 dog is like we're trying to figure out
43:12 how to take care of her dog in Panama.
43:14 And as soon as I stopped thinking about
43:15 my feelings
43:18 >> and I thought about her feelings,
43:19 everything changed. Actually, our
43:21 relationship changed dramatically. And
43:24 so even when we're feeling unpleasant
43:26 emotions as parents or as even children
43:27 can do this,
43:29 >> if we take a minute and think about like
43:31 who who is suffering right now that I
43:32 know, go into your phone and look for
43:34 pictures of people. Oh my gosh, she just
43:36 lost her husband or you know, whatever
43:39 it might be. This person's dog died. And
43:41 just reach out to that person and show
43:43 your love and support for them.
43:46 >> What happens magically is that
43:48 >> by you helping them, you feel better yourself.
43:49 yourself.
43:51 >> Tell everyone where they can find more
43:53 from you. I know everyone will want that.
43:54 that.
43:55 >> Well, my book is called Dealing with
43:57 Feeling, which I'm very excited about.
43:59 It's all evidence-based strategies to
44:01 help everybody regulate their emotions
44:04 more effectively. And the best place to
44:05 learn more about me is just my website,
44:13 >> Well, thank you. This hopefully is not
44:15 the last time I have you right here.
44:16 >> Thank you.
44:17 >> Um, and I love talking to you and thank
44:19 you for your very, very important work.
44:21 >> Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that
44:23 conversation. I know I really did.
44:25 Things that are top of mind for me are
44:27 that there's no bad feelings. This idea
44:29 of positive and negative emotions. Let's
44:32 throw that out and embrace what Dr.
44:36 Bracket says. Emotions are data and all
44:40 data is information and we want to get
44:42 information. As always, if you enjoyed
44:44 this episode, please take a moment to
44:47 rate and review it. or if you're
44:49 listening on Spotify or watching on
44:52 YouTube, drop a comment. I read every
44:55 single one. Let's end the way we always
44:58 do. Place your feet on the ground and
45:01 place a hand on your heart. And let's
45:03 remind ourselves
45:06 even as we struggle on the outside, we
45:10 remain good inside.
45:23 [Music] Hey.
