YouTube Transcript:
Consideraciones Relevantes de la PTU 2025

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Video Transcript

Hello, how are you? Good morning everyone.

Thank you for joining

our webinar once again, this time on the

topic Relevant Considerations of the

APU, a very important topic for

these dates. This time, we're going to

have some great panelists from the

company: Ms. Verónica

Castillo, our

payroll manager; Mr. Said Rodríguez,

also from the payroll department; Mr.

Miguel Castañeda,

social security manager; and Mr.

Miguel Ángel Hernández Mora, our

director of fiscal certainty. All of

them will address different areas

that are important for all

companies to take into account. I'd

like to remind you that we have

all the

tools available so you can

participate with us live through the

chat, the Q&

A section, or even

raise your hand so you can

participate by asking a question, making a

doubt, or making a comment. eh totally live.

So, all that remains is to say that

we remain at your service. We'll

also be giving some

guidance in the chat section, so please stay tuned. And

without further ado, thank you very much team.

Forward. Thank you very much Alejandro.

Good morning everyone, and thank you for joining

this monthly webinar we're hosting

from BHR. And as

Alejandro mentioned, the topic we're going

to address is related to employee

employee

profit sharing. We know that for the

purposes of legal entities,

the annual declaration should have already been filed,

and with it comes the

obligation to distribute profits. And

for individuals who

also have employees under their care, we

still have six days to

file the annual return. eh and with

and and with that also the deadline for the

payment of profits, right? So

here we are going to touch on some

relevant topics. That's why there's also the

payroll department. It's the area that specializes in these

payments, in these calculations and payments of the

PTU, but there are also

relevant considerations that must be taken into account,

such as these social security issues.

What's happening with the PTU in terms

of social security? There are some

controversies when they say, "Hey, I

make advance PTU payments, how should they be

treated, etc." And finally, we will

look at very specific topics regarding the

tax effects of PTU,

such as how it is integrated, if there are some who

still tell us that it is an expense, it

is not an expense, eh, what is this, why, eh,

why does my declaration or

provisional payment show an eighth of what I should have paid,

paid,

etc., right? Let's see some

very relevant characteristics. It's

too much information, but we'll try to

talk about all of this in about 45 minutes,

and we'll leave a small

space of 10 to 15 minutes maximum for

questions and answers, right? Uh,

anyway, as Alejandro rightly mentioned

, there's our chat where

you can also express any

questions or comments about this. So,

without further ado, I would like,

Vero, Said, for you to share with us a little bit

about how this obligation is generated and

what the theoretical framework is, the legal framework

that concerns

workers' profit sharing and

everything that entails, right? Because the

truth is that it is something operationally very

important and we also have to

consider that many say, "The new

changes to the PTU are not so

new anymore because

this issue of caps has been around for quite a few years. So,

what could you tell us about this?

about this?

Thank you, good morning. Well, as we

know, uh, the PTU comes from when it

is a

constitutional right and is enshrined in

Article 123 of the Federal

Labor Law. It is a right that

workers have to participate in

profits and as such it helps us

to increase

productivity and the permanence of

workers as well.

So, well, this is not new,

this has been going on for many decades.

Today we have the distribution, well, this

is where they participate with 10% of the profits.

Good. Uh, I think this is an

issue, well, as mentioned, it is not something

something

new. As Vero mentioned,

the

distribution of the PTU begins to be regulated since the Constitution and well, uh,

we started with the law with the con The

Constitution, then comes the

Federal Labor Law, and they

begin to tell us, right?

When and what the amount is that

should be distributed. To begin with, well,

the profit for distribution

must be 10% of the

taxable income given for

income tax purposes. And within

the changes, right? As

mentioned, Article 127, Section 8, sets

a maximum limit for us to be able to distribute it to

workers, right? It could be three

months of the daily salary or the

average of the PTU received in the

last three years. Of these two, the one that is

more favorable to the worker, and in

some cases, it is also

capped at one month's salary for some

companies and for some workers. And

workers. And

if you allow me, well, we

also know that this distribution is

done in two parts: 50% is

carried out, uh, generally or

equally, based on days worked, and the other

50% is based on the

earned salary. Considering this, in the

case of unionized workers and

confidential personnel, this is capped

at the salary of the unionized worker with the

highest income plus 20%. We

also know that there are companies that don't

have unionized workers

or operational personnel. How do we

consider this cap? Well, we have to

find the worker who meets those

characteristics to be able to

cap it. Now,

regarding the days worked, it is

understood that the law tells us that there are

exceptions in the case of

pregnant women who take

postpartum leave, those

workers who had

temporary disability due to

occupational hazards, and those working fathers

who also took

paternity leave. These

workers, even if they were

absent, are considered

productive days,

so they are not excluded or reduced

from the part of the days

worked. Now, if we talk about

absenteeism, unpaid leave,

or general illness leave

, well, these must be

subtracted from the calculation. of those days.

When we talk about salary, the law

tells us that it must be based on the

daily salary, which is very

important to consider. Well, there,

no other income can be included

unless they are workers with

variable salaries, in which case they are treated differently.

Well, it also mentions who is

entitled to this participation?

Well, all workers who

were under the employment of

an employer and who worked during the

fiscal year and who have remained at least

60 days in the year, but it

only speaks to us in the case of

temporary workers. This is a very interesting fact

because temporary workers have

another characteristic from the rest of the

workers. That is, the law

establishes types of workers and

contracts that are by time,

by unit of time. So,

temporary workers refers to those who

are temporary. Those who

had to cover some activity or

some project, or even

farm workers, are

considered temporary workers.

All other workers,

regardless of the number of days they

have worked, are part of the

distribution, whether it's less than 60 days, 5,

10, 20. The days worked

count and are part of the right

Yes, but many regarding

contracts. Uh, an important issue here

, right? Or controversial

that suddenly arises in

daily practice is knowing if a

worker I'm hiring with a

trial period or for an

initial training period, knowing if they are considered a

permanent employee or,

uh, temporary, right? According to

what the Federal Labor Law establishes,

and employment relationships for an

indefinite period subject to a

period, right? Whether it's a trial period or

initial training,

the different criteria that

the authority has adopted, in this case the Ministry of

Labor and

Social Welfare, do specifically indicate

that these types of

employment relationships are considered permanent.

Therefore, from day one, they are

already generating the right to

be subject to profit sharing.

profit sharing.

No, this is a very

important point to consider in this part of

who does have the right to distribution

and who isn't.

So Another important point is that the

company is required to

disseminate this information to all

workers, and in the case of

unionized workers, to present them with a

copy of the annual declaration

indicating whether or not there was a profit.

So, this part is very important:

dissemination. Especially for those

companies that have

operational personnel, they do have to

comply with certain protocols. There

are quite a few of them, but the

most important thing is to disseminate this information

and have their joint commission. We

already have this.

Yes, even here, if you'll let me

share this a little bit, this situation

is very relevant because there is

a period during which

workers or unions

can complain to the commission and

to certain authorities regarding

whether or not they agree, whether they

agree, sorry, with the payment

of the PTU that is being determined, right? So,

So,

this part that Vero mentioned is very important here, because if

we, as employers, don't disseminate

the annual declaration for the

fiscal year, we are in default. Any

situation, so now we

give the workers the power to

complain that there is no dissemination and

therefore we are not complying with

the provisions established in the

Federal Labor Law, because it is also

very important to know that, well, this

PTU payment must be

made within 60 days of the date

the declaration should have been filed

. And here, many

of our clients always

ask us, well, if I filed

my declaration in January or February,

so it suits my interests, I count the 60

days from when I

filed it, right? The law is very clear and

establishes that it is when

the annual declaration should have been filed. When

should I file it? March 31st.

So, from there those 60 days begin to run,

and we conclude that no

later than May 30th, eh, for the purposes

of legal entities, they have the

obligation. Now it is within that

period, right? In other words, I can

pay it before, I can pay it during

or up to the limit, Yes, it can be done, right?

Because in the end, that's what they put at the

discretion of the employer,

that payment, right? And also, uh, and we must also

remember that, as

Vero and Said rightly mentioned, right? Look, in

general, there are those caps of three

months or the average of the three years of the

PTU and in some cases, and this is very

specific when they said, there are some

cases where the PTU has other caps,

what are they? uh, as a general rule,

what are they? It's the financial sector, which

are banks and insurance companies, banks and

insurance companies that have a

particular characteristic where the PTU is

capped at one month and that's been going on for a long time,

right? There's also another very

specific situation and those companies that

derive their profit from the

work that people carry out as an

entity, well, these are also

capped for one month. Generally,

what are these companies?

Civil societies, right? Because it's the fruit

of their work or the fruit of

people's work, right? uh, that's the general rule.

There are some particularities, right?

But In general terms, those are

the limitations where they say, "Hey,

you have up to one month." Hey, yes, but

the company can limit itself to three

months or what they received in the

previous three years. Yes, but

we are dedicated to

this, and therefore, our limit is

different, right? So that they don't

often go with the idea that these

workers are fair or why this, why

this situation occurs, is, is

this, well, at the end of the day, follow

the guidelines that the regulations

right? Here, if I may add a few

important points just now that were talking

about the whole issue of calculation and all

that, obviously it's important, but so

is having the

mixed commission, right? Suddenly, and we have seen in

practice that many clients do

not have the mixed commission, and it is very

important. Let's remember that the

mixed commission is what determines the

payment of the PTU, not the employer. So,

depending on the situation, we have to take that into account,

and in addition to the fact that the

reviews of Regarding the

IMS opinions, getting into my subject of

social security effects, the

authorities are requesting the minutes

of the joint commission and that they are

truly substantiated and that they are actually

done, right? So it's important to have that

joint commission and that the

companies establish it and that

they have that,

well, that legal basis, right? That

must be in place to be able to make the

distribution and for everything to be transparent, right?

right?

Yes. And that's very important, this

namesake, because many times this is

left behind,

right? And they don't take those precautions and in the

end, these are problems that we

face, and this part of the

remediation in these matters, wow, it

becomes very complicated, right? That's

correct. They do it as the

practical part, right? I mean, I'm going to distribute,

but well, I forget that I have to

form a commission, that the commission

is the one that will rule or rather,

review the amount to be paid and the one that will

have the entire declaration, All

the fundamentals to be able to make the

distribution, right? As such. And obviously, you

have to notify the employer and all

the collaborators, right? About that.

Exactly. And now, getting into

your subject, um, namesake, and you started

to touch on these issues of what's happening

with Social Security, if you could

tell us a little bit about what we

should take care of in terms of

social security and especially because of the

Technical Council agreement that

emerged in 2023 around the second semester.

semester.

Yes, yes, with pleasure. Look, this

agreement was like a reminder from the

institute. Normally, this has, if the

PT obviously has it all its life, well, the

same as the part of the

Technical Council agreements. Here,

obviously, derived from everything that comes from the

2021 reform on the issue of

subcontracting, the new form of payment

of or the ways to pay this,

this right of the PTU, well, the IMS

also spoke out and said, "Let's see,

let's get down to

business." Well, very strict and

argue certain situations." Here we

are putting in the slides

the most important thing about this agreement that

came out on June 26, 2023. uh, it was

published in the Official Gazette of the

Federation on July 7, 2023 and

what it had aimed to guide

employers regarding the exclusions

as components of the base salary for

contributions of payments that exceed the

maximum amount of the PTU. They already explained very well

this part of Vero Isaí, the

part of the payments that either the three

months or the part of the east of the

payment as such, but yes, that exclusion or

that excess amount that is

owed or that is paid, well here the IMS

is focusing on it and is saying,

well, if you are going to pay a PTU under those

two guidelines that the

legislation is already arguing, then you

have to integrate the surplus to me,

right? and that is how it is instructing the head

of the incorporation directorate

of all the sub-delegations and

Administrative units so that they

entail and that they make this

agreement known to everyone. Yes,

obviously we already know it, but in case of

any doubts that may arise,

each of them or each

subdelegation must have this

expertise, which we know that sometimes they don't have

, but they must clarify

this situation, right? And have the

basis for it. Here the agreement is

very clear, it comes into force the

next day, obviously it would be

July 8th, which comes into force in 2023, and it is

said that it comes into force, but in the

end I come back to the same thing, this has been around for a

long time, the

Technical Council agreement already argued about

these PTU advances or this, these

surpluses, right? Because there are two

relevant issues. There are also

PTU advances that the authority does not see well

because they are outside of everything that

is legal and what the law establishes

for the payment of PTU. Additionally, here we

also put this an

important point that all

workers who exceed what is indicated

in the 27 in section 8, which

is the part of the payment, the

surplus of it will be a

bonus as such and obviously it must be

integrated as the

first point said, right? And we know that there are

many practices, many employers

establish it in delivering amounts that

although they are registered in all

the accounting as advance payments to

workers, they normally

do it in December or some

other month, the authority is not

establishing it or will not

establish it as PTU, but as an

additional bonus and it must be

integrated into the salary, if it is in December, it

must be integrated into the salary of

January 1 of the following year. previous,

right? Here it is important that you

visualize this, see it. The authority is

focusing, it is auditing in a

way, let's call it, aggressive, if you will

allow me the expression. and so

are the reviews of

some tax credit, some cabinet, a

cabinet review or the review of

the Opinions. Here it is

also important for those of us who are dedicated to

that, for those who are in the forum that are

dedicated to issuing opinions, to take

this situation into account, right? Because the authority

is going to focus on it and this

year the review will surely have that weight

because last year, well,

this agreement was in 2023 and while it is

true, well, the next day the

authority will argue it from 2023,

from the 2023 opinion and obviously it will

have more weight for the opinion that we are going to

present in September of

this 2024, right? Here it also establishes

that integrating outside the limits or

deadlines established by the Federal

Labor Law loses its nature and for the

purposes of social security or for the

purposes of salary integration it

should be considered an integral part,

right? Obviously, there will be people who say

that there are grounds and all that, but they

would have to be clarified, it would have to be

substantiated if the authority is

moving in that direction, right? That the

advances of PTU isn't a PTU because it falls

outside the scope of what the

law establishes. You have to pay me surplus payments

that are bonuses, and you

have to integrate them. So, there would be

those two assumptions, or two, these or two

payments that are made should be

considered an integral part of the

salary, right? Even, even, my name is,

here I would allow it because

this part is very, very specific, right? Hey, when the

force is delivered, it goes beyond the

limits and deadlines. And what happens?

There are some occasions where companies

say, "I don't have the cash flow

right now in May to pay the PTU. I'd better

pay them in June because they

fall outside the deadlines, and then

that's no longer PTU for social security purposes

and it has to be integrated, right?

Correct. Totally agree. Same as

what I said before, the

advance of the PTU, right? I mean, we know

that many companies say, "Well,

to benefit the workers and

all that, well, I'm going to

pay you an advance in December or

another month, for whatever reason, right? But in the

end, well, it loses the nature of

the PTU according to

current legislation and obviously, well, it wouldn't fit

or it wouldn't or it wouldn't be like a PTU as such,

right? Because in December

the PTU is not paid, it is paid in May, right? May, June.

June.

Sure, sure. And that does have to be

very careful, right?

Yes. Here are some

important aspects of this criterion to

consider and to discuss with you

is that whoever excludes the base salary

from the cooking the payments that give up the

amount of the PTU, well, obviously it will

be very uh in the spotlight. Whoever pays

the PTU outside of the deadlines established

in article 122, the 60 days, well, it also

loses its nature and is

outside the deadlines and it becomes a

bonus as such, Right? Whoever

advises or provides services in the

implementation of these

practices, well, that becomes

the focus of the authority,

both good, in this case for

the IMS, right? Every certified public accountant

who issues a clean

or unqualified opinion in the opinions that they are

going to issue or that they issued in

2023 and that they will issue in 2024,

incur in these practices,

obviously, will have some impact on

the review of the opinion, they will have to

clarify it, they will have to justify it where

appropriate, if they did so, they will have to

justify it and obviously, to the

institute, clarify these

situations of why this practice was carried out,

which in the end the same institute

is already, let's put it this way,

clarifying it, reminding us again that I do

n't see this type

of practices favorably, right? With your agreement.

Yes, yes, namesake. Plus this part of, uh,

we know that Social Security is the

supervisory entity that is not tempted. heart

and goes straight to the freezing of your

accounts. This, and the truth is that it's

the institution that best knows how

to collect, right? And we say best knows how to

collect, not well, not badly, but collects,

because at the end of the day, you

can't operate if you don't have

bank accounts, right? And it is and it is where the Social

Security authority comes first

. So, yes, you have to be very

careful with this part that you mentioned about the

public accountant, this one has to be

practically

eh informed of any situation that he

considers not within the

guidelines, because if not, the sanction

for the accountant can also be

eh relevant, right? So, many

times, many clients tell us, "It's that you

you

Social Security assessors eh really get into your own

pockets and well, they must be

selective tests, because for

Social Security, they are not selective tests, just like

in taxes, right? That is, at the

end of the day, there is no

materiality or there is no materiality

in terms of

contributions, in terms of contributions

to social security. That must be

taken into account and everything is already

tied up because at the end of the day the

authority will know when

the petua was paid to its employees because they

stamp it and then the payment date appears

. You know when you filed your

annual return or what

dates you have until for this payment, right?

So this authority now

has all the tools to

reach out to taxpayers,

right? This part, and let me tell you

that this part of

information exchange between institutions is already

being quite efficient. There are already

local authorities that are

reviewing your federal taxes and Social Security,

this one, and Social Security may also

be reviewing this

federal taxes, local taxes. This

fiscal coordination is already working.

That seed that was

planted a little over a decade ago

is already sowing, it's

reaping fruits, right now? Because? Because

there's now more strategic coordination,

because the government needs money and

has to figure out how to raise it, right?

And always, and social security never

loses, right, my name is, right? No no. And here,

obviously, the oversight,

as I was saying, is

quite complicated with the

institute. Sometimes the people who

deal with audits or

audit reviews

aren't that expert, and they go

with guidelines

given to them from above, right? That is, there is no

other way here than for you to believe that you are a

tax credit. So, you don't have to

give them weapons so they can

monitor you, something that you can ultimately

start remedying beforehand, right? Do

n't do things that, or with some

recommendation that, well, you can be an

advance on PTU, you can pay the

surplus, don't integrate it because it's

PTU, but have everything well-founded,

well-advised so that you don't

have those complications. No no no don't

give the authority or don't give them

weapons so they can monitor you, right?

That's what's important, like

the comment we should

Yes, it is super relevant that they have it,

right? And also, well, I would like to

comment a little on this part of the

considerations regarding SRI and it goes

and goes at the end of the day, as you can

see, everything is integrated, right?

At the end of the day, there is harmony

on issues of

workers, right? Although it arises from a

constitutional right, we have already seen

that it not only has a

labor impact, but also an impact

on social security. The

precautions that our namesake Castañeda already mentioned,

and also for the purposes of

income tax, and

federal tax contributions,

must be taken into consideration. Many

still tell us, "Hey,

for me, PTU is a

deductible concept." No, it has never been a

deductible concept. It is not reduced from

the tax base, but that does not mean it

is an expense. And also, uh,

this part is very relevant because,

uh, the authority, what does it

establish? Let's see, I have a way to

determine the ISR. There are certain

adjustments or adjustments that I have to

consider to integrate this into the

PTU base and from there that 10% arises. But the

essence is the same, right? The

adjustments that must be made between the

determination of

income tax and the PTU are minimal and are

identifiable. So let's not lose

sight of the fact that the essence is the same, right? And there are

also many very

relevant things because there is a decree that

establishes that we can reduce

our provisional payments by one-

eighth of

the PTU that has been paid from May to December.

And many of our

clients tell us, "Hey, if I paid

a PTU in May, but there are parts of PTU

for certain situations that the

worker who is no longer with me,

well, he came and picked up his check until

August, September and so, well, I

am paying a PTU, but

that payment does not appear in the reduction of

my provisional payments and it will never

appear. Why? Because we go back to the

same thing, we have to take care of the

payment terms of the PTU and everything we have

paid in May, that amount I will be

able to reduce it to an eighth

starting with the May declaration and until

December, right? So it is very

important that the FDIs are stamped

, that the payment date and the stamping

correspond to May so that everything that has been

paid in May can be

reduced in the provisional payments and

not have any complications. uh, that

indeed there will be payments that will be

made later. Generally they are

people who no longer work with

us, but who uh, they have the

right to collect their share Of

the workers, eh, of

the workers'

profit sharing. And what we've also seen,

notice that eh, they've always asked us

this question. Hey, is anything that exceeds

the PTU cap a bonus or is it PTU?

Why? And why do I share it this

way? Eh, when

this reform on

subcontracting was made, eh, there were companies that

had employees and always had

employees and were very

profitable. So, the PTU that was

distributed was

10%, there was no more.

When the subcontracting reform came into effect

, the workers of

these companies eh, eh, started to get

upset because they said, "Hey, if this

company was profitable and I had that 10%,

why are you going to hit me now with these

rules for 3 months if you, your company, were already

paying me that?"

So, these companies

told us, "Hey, what am I going to do with

this situation? Am I going to consider it

as PTU or is it a bonus that I'm going to

pay the employees?" Well, at the end

of the day, these are topics for discussion because there are

those who say, "Yes, it is a PTU, because

at the end of the day my PTU base is

10% of taxable income.

That I have a limit, well that is

independent, but the essence of that

10% is. There are others who say, "No,

let's see, whatever you pay them additionally, even

when you reach that 10%, it's considered this

bonus and you're not going to consider it as PTU.

Why? Because that's why you have a cap.

So, these are very

specific issues, but they did occur,

because at the end of the

day there were quite

profitable companies whose workers were affected by this subcontracting reform,

and for that reason they said, "Let's

see, I'm not going to fight. I used to

pay my employees like this. I'm going to

continue paying because I didn't have

subcontracting, it was my natural way of

operating and I had my profits and I have

my profits. Why am I going to affect

the worker? And labor laws will

always be in favor of

workers. So, yes, we do have to be

careful with these situations. Yes, we've

faced this, and at the end of the

day, if we consider it as

PTU, let's look at the impact on

social security because we're talking about

caps, we're talking about other things.

What's going to happen? No?

So it becomes something integral, we

can no longer see it in isolation. Hey,

well, I'm going to use it for SR purposes,

because it even helps me because

my eighth part will be better for me to

reduce my provisional payments. Yes,

but what's happening with

Social Security? No? So, these are some of the

reflections we have to take into account now

now

as we calculate the

PTU payment that will be made

starting next month, and also take

into account the care involved in

stamping the FDIs, right? Because from there

they will have more repercussions.

So, basically these are the aspects

that we did want to discuss with all of

you. Now we're going to open the

microphones in order to be able to

answer the questions that

you have and those concerns. I see that

there are some comments in the chat

. So we're going to open

this microphone there. We saw

some hands raised there. So this

is this is what we

wanted in about 40 minutes. It's a lot, it

's a lot of information,

this topic is too broad, but we wanted to summarize it in 40

minutes because we think it

Perfect. Hey, let's start with the questions.

Yes, look, in the

questions section there is one that says, "If

the company has

unionized and trusted employees,

the calculation should be treated differently

." I think Vero and Saí could help us there .

Clear. Uh, no, uh, there's no

different treatment. There are two

types of workers there:

unionized workers and confidential workers. However,

since there are unionized workers, they must

choose the unionized worker with the highest income,

and that person will be capped at 20%, and

will be capped at all those in the general population who

Thanks, Vero. And let's see in the

the consequences of not complying with

the payment of the determined PTU and what

limits workers have to

demand their

payment. Let's see what consequences there are for not

complying with the payment of the PTU. Well, there

are labor consequences. Yes of course.

Well, there they violate the protection

that workers have for payment.

Well, there are sanctions. Yes of course. There are

fines ranging from 250 to 5,000 as a

penalty because they are violating

an ordinance, right? So, there

will be sanctions, there will

be consequences.

And another, what other was it

and what and what limit do

workers have to demand their payment? Ah,

well, the right to fight

expires in a year. That is, we already talked about the fact

that the company is obligated to do

the dissemination and then make the delivery. And

we're talking practically about

former collaborators. They have up to a

then says, "For the payment of PTU

capped at 3 months of daily salary, the

the

cap of the highest salary of

unionized personnel plus 20% should be considered in the determination, or does this cap only

apply to the payment and not to the calculation

and not to the payment." For example, for a

high-salary worker, his

theoretical PTU is 120,000. The cap

according to the highest unionized worker

plus 20% is 45,000. 3 months

of worker's salary 100,000. What

amount is paid?

Yes, that is a controversy because in

effect the law says the cap is 3 months of the

worker's salary, it is not

telling us that it is the cap because from

my perspective, well, we are already doing, we would be doing

a double punishment because first we

already punish those, well, who are seen as

more privileged with the salary, well, we

already punish them with the cap, now,

well, with the cap of 20% more

than that of the unionized worker or

whoever has the characteristic. Now he says,

"Well, if he earns more than what

they mentioned about the unionized salary cap

, well, we're already

telling him that it's going to be the same for everyone,

right? So, however, if there are

companies, and we have this one, well,

some companies that say they're not going to

hit the capped salary plus the 20%

for unionized workers, whoever meets the requirement.

requirement.

So, the law doesn't say that,

right? It only says that it's three

months of the worker's salary

. So, but, well, regarding

the reviews, there have been some

experiences with the reviews by the

Ministry of Labor. What criteria does

the authority establish in these reviews ?

Yes, indeed

, from the calculation of

profit and distribution, we already have an

established cap, right? And it's the additional 20%

to the highest salary of

unionized or permanent personnel,

right?, who meet those requirements.

requirements.

So, we already have an amount of PT to

distribute. For the purposes of the

next cap of 127 Section 8,

where it tells us it's three months'

salary, the

daily salary must be considered, right?

This is how the

Ministry of Labor and

Social Welfare has been handling it in the various

inspections it may conduct.

Thank you, thank you, Vero. Here, I'm going to

skip one by Mauricio Rosas because I

think it's also relevant to some people, and I'll

go back a little bit to the previous one. It

says, "The question is, what salary should be

considered to calculate the

three-month limit in the event that in 2024 the

employees have had a

mid-year salary increase?" the current salary or

And yes, because there are

many companies where they tell you, "Hey, the

increase isn't going to be given in January, but rather

in May, in June, in July.

Hey, what daily salary am I going to

get?" No, yes, no? And and and in fact there have been

cases where

suddenly in the month of

December your salary is increased, right?

And with that salary, I'm

going to consider the cap, well,

negotiations can be

held mainly with the

unions and with the joint committee in

one way or another, as

Mr. Miguel mentioned, he

told us that the

joint committee is in charge of making the

distribution, right? Many times when it

comes to being under review and

the rules are agreed upon, what they seek to

do is to be able to have an average of the

earned salary to be able to precisely limit

those 3 months and not fall into cases

like these, right? From, "You know what?

The profit sharing is coming up and

you're my friend and I'm going to raise your

salary a little bit more so that you get

a little bit more, right? One of those cases

that are fictitious, but that I don't

think will happen in reality,

right? However, that is uh part of the

criteria that is going to be that I know is being

taken on salaries earned during the year.

year.

Thank you. And I'll go back to the question I

had missed. He says, "Good morning,

what prevails between 10% and the

established cap?" Let's see, the Federal

Labor Law tells you it's 10%. And from there

comes a cap. That's why what I was saying

uh almost at the end of the talk, where there

are companies that say, "Let's see, this, I

was always utilitarian and I'm going to and I always

gave them 10%. "Why do I have to

cap it now?" Look, there are criteria, there are

considerations that tell you, "No, that

10% does not lose its PTU characteristic

because that is the general rule." Then

a cap comes and says, "Well, my PTU to be

distributed is going to be so much, but in essence

the 10% does not lose or could not lose

that characteristic of being PTU, but

each case does have to be analyzed specifically

in order to see

how it was determined, how it would be

paid and what

additional consequences there are from what we saw in

terms of social security, right? So, in the

end, my maximum is 10% of the

pleasant income. That's the maxim. Hey,

after the rain comes you're going to find it in

these ways. Ah, well, I'll

find it, right? Because if not,

the issue of what we saw in the

financial sector and SCS would also arise, where they tell you, "It's one

month and you can't do more."

So, we have to take those

considerations into account, right? But the maximum is that

10%. Then he says, "What is the role

regarding workers who are

compensated for unjustified dismissal?

Do they qualify for PTU?

Of course, of course. I mean,

that's another story, but the

right exists and must be granted. Whether they

are dismissed justifiably or

unjustifiably, the right is not lost

. We know it's an inalienable right.

Thank you, Vero. And the last question

to conclude. This one says, "What happens if

your right expires after a year?" But the year

would be in May of the following year, for

example, 2025. If the declaration is

filed in March 2025, is the

PTU from the previous year accumulated? Of course, because you

say, "Hey, what wasn't distributed? I'm going

to add it to the PTU that I'm determining

in this exercise." He says, "And in that and in

this example, the employee arrives in April

and says, "Hey, I want my PTU." Or he says,

"Request your PTU." His PTU no longer exists

because we have already accumulated it and it has already been paid to

or will already be paid to the employees.

Uh, what do we do to pay him and not

violate his right? Well, his

right will exist until May 31, 2026,

right? But I don't know, in that case I think that uh he would have to be

paid the PTU as such

because he still has the right.

Exactly. Yes, I also have that

issue, that dilemma, because in effect I

say, most arrive at Inter the

same year, but some arrive

and since they already know that their right

expires in a year, then they show up

in April or May of the following year,

well the company can't uh say, "No,

what do you think? Because I already

accumulated it for the new fiscal year." No, well,

your right exists because the law establishes it that way

. So, you have to be given

what was

determined there. The tax treatments

and this and accounting, well, they will have their

special treatment, but because that's what

the law says, that's what it demands and

establishes, it has to be paid.

Exactly. And as a concept of PTU, that is, there is

no more, right? And and it already says,

when a company does not pay the PTU it has

an impact on the financial statements and

fiscally, because if you do not pay the

PETU you will have a liability. So, uh,

the liability will be recorded there.

Fiscally, you do not have a right to a

reduction because you did not pay it.

The problem is a purely

labor issue, that if one or more employees

leave and complain, hey, if there was a PTU,

but they did not pay them, there are

labor consequences. Yes, yes, yes.

And well, this audience really

appreciates the time you

gave us in this webinar related

to the considerations for PTU.

We hope this has been helpful, and if you have

any additional questions, please feel free to reach us on

our channels, whether it's YouTube,

WhatsApp, our own page,

Instagram, or LinkedIn

. First of all, we

reiterate our gratitude, and we

remain at your service in any case

. Thank you very much.

Thank you all. We're at your

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Consideraciones Relevantes de la PTU 2025