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Neuroscientist (Dr. Tara Swart): Evidence We Can Communicate After Death!

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If what you're saying is true, then I

mean this is a revelation.

>> Yeah. And I I couldn't speak about it

until now that it's possible to

communicate with someone that's passed

away. And I'm saying it from the point

of view of being a neuroscientist and a

psychiatrist. And it's taboo because we

are afraid that people will think we're

going insane. I mean, I've been part of

teams that have locked people up and had

them injected with stuff against their

will because of things they were saying

that's not that dissimilar to things

I've experienced. I wanted to find out

as much science as I could to try to

back it up.

>> And do you think you found the answer? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> How sure are you?

>> 100%. And the things I found out are

going to shock you.

>> The floor is yours.

>> Okay. So, I'm Dr. Tara Wart. I'm a

neuroscientist and a medical doctor who

specialized in psychiatry. And I lost my

beloved husband to leukemia almost 4

years ago, 2 days before our fourth

wedding anniversary. And that everything

I believed in had gone wrong.

I was just totally lost and broken. But

then I started getting signs from my

husband. And in my desperation, I did

consult a couple of mediums. But not

being impressed by them, I ended up

thinking if it's possible to communicate

with someone that's passed away. And I

am all about optimizing my brain, then I

should be able to do it myself. So I

went down a rabbit hole. And what I've

uncovered in this research is going to

have a really beneficial effect on a lot

of people.

>> Why? because it means that we are

capable of so much more than what we

think the human mind is capable of.

>> So listen, here's what I'm going to do.

I'm going to try and ask the questions

and challenge you in ways that I think

the viewer might challenge you.

>> I see messages all the time in the

comments section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because in a strange

way you are you're part of our history

and you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you

Dr. Tara Swart. Good to see you again.

>> You too.

>> Thank you for coming back. You were our

most viewed guest on the show of all

time. Our last conversation did just

over 20 million views and downloads,

which is pretty staggering. But you're

back to talk about something entirely

different this time,

>> which is this idea of science, which

kind of intertwines with all of your

work on neuroscience that you've done

throughout your career. My first

question to you is, what is it that you

think you know that the vast majority of

people don't quite understand,

comprehend, or have accepted yet? and

take me right back to the sort of first

principles of that thinking.

>> I believe that we are capable of so much

more than what we think the human mind

is capable of now. And I believe that

the brain actually filters down the

capability of the mind so that we can

exist on this material plane. And

things that I found out doing research

for the signs is going to shock you. The

abilities that we have that we're not

aware of are way beyond what you might

even imagine right now.

>> In what departments and facets of my life?

life?

>> Let's just start with something really

simple. How many senses do you think we have?

have?

>> Five. I can smell. I can touch. Um I can

hear. I can see. Um is it five that?

Yeah, five. Is it five?

>> Have you heard of a six sense?

>> Being able to see ghosts and stuff.

>> Okay. So I think most people would agree

that we have five senses and some people

would say isn't there something like a

six sense and I don't think it's agreed

what that might be. So I actually did a

literature review of several pieces of

research about how many senses humans

have and we actually have 34 as we

currently understand it. >> 34.

>> 34.

And so what does this mean? Like what is

the because you're making an assertion

here. What is the assertion that you're

making and what does that mean for the

material sort of consequences of my life?

life?

>> I'm making a hypothesis based on both

the analogy of the observable universe

and the fact that we have this expanded

suite of senses to challenge you to

understand that you are capable of much

more than you think you are. And you

know, you're a really good case in point

for me because you love rationality and

data and science and you don't really

love intuition and the, you know, the

unknown, the unseen. So, you know, I

think if I can convince you of anything

by the end of this podcast, then the

impact that that could have on society,

I think is huge. I mean, the things I

found out are going to shock you.

>> What do you mean by that?

>> I, as you know, was a was a psychiatrist

in the past. So I'm able to diagnose

people and say whether they have a

mental illness or not. In the past four years,

years,

I've been keeping a secret. And there

were times in that four years that I had

to ask myself if I was in clinical depression,

depression,

if I was psychotic, if I was manic, if

the way that my consciousness was

expanding. I mean, Steve, I've I've been

part of teams that have locked people up

and put, you know, had them injected

with stuff against their will because of

things they were saying that's not that

dissimilar to things I've experienced in

the last four years.

So, I guess we better get into the

secret because I sat here with you

almost two years ago now and we had a

fantastic conversation, but there was

something you didn't tell my audience

when we had that conversation that re

reached more than 20 million people.

There was something at that moment in

time that you didn't tell me, which was

this secret you've been keeping.

What is the secret, Tara? Um, I lost my

beloved husband to leukemia almost four

years ago

and I've written this book which

mentions my personal story. So,

and I trust you. So, I really wanted to

come back on the podcast and just

explain a little bit to people about

what's been going on for me for the last

four years. So your husband Robin, you

met him 2016

and he passed he passed away from

leukemia in >> 2021.

>> 2021.

>> 2021. Now from 2021 when he passed away,

what what happened in your life? What

was going on in your world? If I was a

fly on the wall in your context, what

would I have seen?

>> He'd been given two weeks to live, but

he actually lived for three and a half weeks.

weeks.

and he died two days before our fourth

wedding anniversary. So, I was literally

reading condolence cards on my fourth

wedding anniversary.

If it wasn't for the people that I have

around me who became like a fortress, I

don't think I would be here today. You

know, never having had that experience

before, it was just so so devastating.

Um, and even though I'm a neuroscientist

and a psychiatrist, I just

I just was like like totally lost and broken.

broken.

And then

I started seeing robins in the garden

every single time I went to the window,

both in Hampshire and London. I've never

ever seen so many robins in my life.

Like not before or since. I still see

them sometimes. But I noticed it. I

thought, of course, that's what I want

to see. I have no idea what it means, if

anything. Um,

and then about 6 weeks after he passed away,

away,

I was asleep and I heard a noise in the

distance and we had been burgled once,

so I went to check it wasn't the alarm

in the garages. Couldn't work out what

it was. Thought maybe it was birds in

the distance. Went back to sleep. It was

about 4:00 a.m. and then I got woken up

by a massive thump to my shoulder. I

wouldn't demonstrate it on you because

it would be too much for me to hit you

that hard. It wasn't like a tap. So, I

opened my eyes and I could see next to

my bed

a very vague hazy version of Robin as if

he was pushing himself through trial to

be seen.

And I was just transfixed. And I saw him

become more and more clear. I could see

the outline of his hair and his face.

And then suddenly he just dissolved from

the top down. And my eyes went like

this. And I remember seeing his shins

and his feet. And I was like up on my

elbow watching. And I I just gasped out loud.

loud.

In my desperation, I did consult a

couple of mediums.

And again, I had that dual conversation.

I said to myself, this is the kind of

thing that crazy, desperate people do.

And within the same breath, it's okay

for me to be crazy and desperate right

now. I've lost my best friend, my life

partner. Like my everything I thought

about how the world worked has crashed

around me. And I ended up think, you

know, being not being impressed by the

mediums. and just at some point, I can't

even remember when now thinking if it's

possible to communicate with someone

that's passed away

and he was my husband and my best friend

and I am all about optimizing my brain

and expanding my consciousness, then I

should be able to do it myself. That's

that's the start of my journey that I've

written about in science.

>> And do you think you found the answer? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> How sure are you? >> 100%.

>> 100%.

I mean, if if if what you're saying is

true, then

that's a pretty I mean, that's a

revelation, right? So many people have

lost lost people or um have gone through

different types of loss in their life.

And you're telling me that through the

work you've done over the last couple of

years and the research you've done, you

understand how to communicate with them

in some capacity. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> And you're 100% sure. >> 100%.

>> 100%.

>> So, listen. Here's what I'm going to do.

I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to

I'm going to challenge you in ways that

I think um the viewer might challenge

you sat at home. So I'm going to try and

ask the questions that the viewer might

ask because there's you know people

>> the this idea is quite a significant

perspective shifting one. So my job in

this conversation although these are

sensitive matter matters of course is

just to try and play devil's advocate

where I can

>> and I just I want to say that you know

you know me

>> and you know that you've asked me to

come back on the podcast several times

and I've come when I'm ready so I want

you to ask me those questions.

>> Yeah. So where does this journey begin

then? So this you suffer this tragic

loss in your life. You go to the mediums

you're let down by them. Where does this

begin? Where does your research your

your journey of discovery begin?

It starts with this decision to um you

know try to

communicate with him myself. There's a

realization at some point that it's not

a one-way thing that when people pass

away they also have to learn. So it's

it's it's like two people having to

learn a language to speak to each other.

Like two people who speak a different

language having to learn a language that

they can both speak. That's that's how

it felt. Obviously, as a scientist, I

then wanted to find out as much science

as I could to to try to back it up,

which really comes down to the science

of whether the mind or the psyche or the

soul can exist separately from the body.

>> And I will say that way before I even

started thinking about this stuff, just

the the moment that he died, which he

died in front of me, once he'd actually

passed away, I remember a really strong

feeling of looking at his body and just

knowing that wasn't him.

and the the essence of who he was. I

didn't know where it was, but it was not

there lying in that bed.

>> And when did you realize that you were

going to start to collect research and

do research on this idea of being able

to communicate in ways that most people

don't realize we can communicate through

science. And also when you talk about

being able to communicate through these

30 plus senses, is that just with the

dead or is that with each other? like

can I communicate through you know is

there other ways that I can tap into

these senses that you've discovered

through your research

that will help me be more effective with

the living too.

>> I mean I think it starts with yourself.

So I think that the fact that if you're

not even aware that you've got 34 senses

then you're obviously not consciously

tapping into

something that you're not aware of and

and some of them are non-concious senses

anyway. Um things like the pH of your

blood or like the balance of oxygen and

carbon dioxide in your blood. you're,

you know, you're not going to be

conscious of those. You can't

necessarily exert much control over

them. Although, obviously, if you slow

down your breathing or you do a certain

type of breath work, it it could have an

impact on those things. The conclusion

that I came to, so like I said, I went

to the brink a few times. I went to the brink.

brink.

Let me give you the first example. I

realized that the first anniversary was

coming up on October 26th.

And around, you know, a couple of months

before that, I was doing the best that I

had been doing. so far. But I was very

aware this anniversary was coming and I

wanted to prepare myself mentally.

But from the 4th of October,

I suddenly like was in aches and pains

all over my body, which actually lasted

for six or seven weeks and was

accompanied by me feeling so depressed

that I actually had to look in the

mirror and like go through the criteria

for clinical depression and work out if

I was actually depressed or not. Um, and

I didn't meet all the criteria, but I

was in this physical pain. I could not

understand why. I went for a massage. It

was so painful. I didn't go again for a

year. So, eventually I looked through my

um diary on calendar on my phone. And I

looked back to October 4th, which was

the day that it started, and that was

the day that I had taken him home to

die. That was the day I took him home

from hospital. I didn't remember that

date, but clearly my body had and the

trauma was just reemerging as like

physical pain. Um, and I only realized

quite a lot later that I had to to do

some sematic work to actually get rid of

the last bits of trauma that um, talking

therapy can't actually get to

>> seatic work.

>> So, body body work, whether that's

massage or uh, dance or art or

craniosacral therapy or taichi, you

know, like anything physical. because

basically there's an area in the brain,

it's actually inside. So I can't really

show it to you on this, but it's kind of

inside there. And that part of the brain

is to do with articulating speech and it

basically gets shut down by trauma. So

those sort of phrases like I'm

speechless or I'm dumbfounded or I have

no words indicates the fact that there

may be residual trauma that's held in

your body that you can't actually

articulate and get out and solve through

talking therapy. So, it requires some

kind of physical therapy. So, that was

obviously to do with my um sense of

pain. And it took me a little while to

kind of put together what that might

mean by really like tapping into why was

my body um manifesting pain to to sort

of remind me of something or show me

something. But also in the first couple

of weeks after um Robin's body Robin's

body was taken away the morning after he

died and it was uh just under two weeks

till the cremation. In that time I would

wake up in the morning and I would be

absolutely freezing cold like shaking

and shivering. And it was October. It

wasn't like mid- winter. And I would

blast up the heating. When someone else

was in the house I would realize it it

was like a sauna. It was actually a bit

embarrassing and had to like you know

turn it down and like open some windows

and Robin actually hated being cold and

he would have been in the morg in a

refrigerated drawer that whole time and

again I think it was my sense of

temperature that was kind of on the same

wavelength as where I didn't consciously

think of where he was but I was feeling

freezing cold. So it was looking back it

was things like that that were

coincidences absolutely but then over

time and I'm talking a couple of years I

could ask for specific signs and get

them sometimes at first it would take a

while and then it became like it would

happen that day I could ask a question

in my head and get an answer. I

mentioned having you know sort of again

being at the brink of my sanity having

to question things. I was experiencing

something called thought insertion which

um in psychiatry is one of the symptoms

of schizophrenia. It's when you have a

thought in your head that you know isn't

yours. So I was experiencing that really vividly.

vividly.

But can you imagine experiencing that

and at the same time being a

psychiatrist that is is saying right

Tara you do realize you are having like

a psychotic symptom. And so in my

research, one of the things I realized

that maybe, you know, if you're going

through grief and you don't know the

things that I know, you can't articulate

to yourself that grief in many ways is

like psychosis.

It's changing the levels of

neurotransmitters in your head. It's

changing the electric electric and

chemical like signaling in your head. I

just have so much empathy for people

that that have to go through that and

don't have the wherewithal or the

resources that that I did. Do you think

one needs to cultivate their ability to

see signs? Do you think it's like going

to the gym?

>> Totally. Totally. I It took me years.

Um, and like I said, I believe it took

him years as well. Um,

so yeah, I I say it's like learning a

language, but you're right. It's like

going to the gym.

>> And what does one need to do in that gym

to grow their

sign muscle?

>> Well, it always starts with believing, right?

right?

>> Yeah. Um,

>> do you think that's what one of the big

issues in terms of being able to access

these other dimensions or dynamics is

most people just don't believe in it?

>> So, I wouldn't I'm not even sure if I'd

say most people. I'd say a lot of people

don't believe in it.

>> Or they secretly do, but they're scared

to talk about it cuz they think people

ridicule them.

>> Yeah. Cuz I don't know. My my brain my

brain feels like I need to have the

scientific evidence of things for me to

accept them because I think sometimes I

worry that if I don't have scientific

rigor around my beliefs then I would I'm

susceptible to believe anything and I'll

believe the spaghetti monster at the

bottom of the garden and I'll believe

you know every religion in the world and every

every

>> and everything and then I'm unanchored

and then I blow around like a plastic

bag in the wind and then I have no

orientation. Yeah.

>> So I think okay rigger is

>> the basis of my beliefs. I have to have

some sort of scientific evidence.

>> I know you do. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um,

>> Um,

>> it's not to say I'm not open-minded

because I've had my mind changed so many

times in my life that one would be dumb

now to not be open-minded and to not listen.

listen.

>> I agree with you about rigger. I

completely agree with that. My entire

career has been based on that. But I

just, you know, I was pushed up against

a wall. So, I had to think differently.

And I think the question I pose to

myself is is what if

>> you had to think differently.

>> So um the psychologist Carl Jung talks

about um when he talks about the

collective unconscious he talks about

those basically three main things that

all humans experience which is birth,

life and death. And so we have this

common experience which is actually part

of our inherited gene and brain

structure. Um so everyone who's ever

lived will experience those things. But

if we look at ancient wisdom, for a

start, we are made of the carbon and

hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen that

came from the big bang. So we're all

made of the same thing. Our ancestors

lived in the cycle with nature. I think

us actually having broken our connection

to nature is a huge part of why we're so

disconnected and unhappy. So if you

think of the life cycle of a salmon for

example, it you know it goes through its

life cycle and eventually its bones

contribute to the phosphorus on the um

floor of the forest. So it never really

goes away. Um in many other ways our

ancestors repeatedly saw the cycles of

nature and therefore always kind of knew

that everything gets renewed and nothing

ever completely goes away. And I think

that's a really important thing to

return to. I think, you know, when we

question things, which you're absolutely

right to do, I think we have to look at

things that we didn't think were true

that we now know are true as just ways

of being open to the fact that things in

the future might become obvious or known

that aren't known now. I think that is

an important place of being open-minded

to to sit at. And so for example,

um, want to hear about slime mold?

>> You tell me if that's something I want

to hear about.

>> So slime mold are single cellled

organisms like amoeba

who go about their daily life on their

own very happily as long as their basic

needs are met. But if for example

they're facing potential starvation,

they will come together and form a slug

because the slug can move towards your

vegetable patch, you know, a new food

source and they can survive.

Equally, if they are if they are facing

potential um extinction,

they will come together and form a a

sporing body like a mushroom. So that's

got a stalk and a fruing body that can

release fours that will go into the

atmosphere to all different places where

these new baby organisms can can grow

and thrive. But if you think about it,

the single cells in the stalk are

sacrificing themselves for the greater

good because there's no chance that

they're they're going to get released

into the atmosphere as a spore because

they're in the stalk. So some of them

actually cheat and climb up the stalk to

get into the fruing body and displace

other cells from the fruitting body.

So things like that and for example the

microisal network which is how mushrooms

and mcelium

feed the roots of trees. Even trees that

have been felled can be kept alive for

centuries because the microisal network

which is the connection between mycelium

and tree roots can bring water and sugar

to that tree stump to keep it alive. And

trees and mcelium don't even only do it

for the same species. They do it because

they're part of the entire forest and

it's symbiotic relationship and they

care about each other. Things like this

would have been like thought to be

fantastical 10 years ago. Um, you know,

we're in in LA at the moment and I saw

the driverless car for the first time.

Now, when I was growing up watching sci-fi,

sci-fi,

I never thought I'd see that in my life.

So that's all I'm saying that and and

I'm saying it from the point of view of

being a cognitive scientist and I'm

talking about the nature of

consciousness. I'm not talking about

other not asking you to believe you know

other parts of science but based on the

fact that we don't know everything.

We've learned loads of things that we

thought weren't true before.

I strongly believe there's a benefit to

humanity of raising this kind of

question and having this conversation

which I ask you why it's a taboo

conversation. What you know why

shouldn't we be enlightened? Why

shouldn't we feel better? Why shouldn't

we be more connected? Whatever we've

been doing up until now certainly hasn't

been working.

>> When when was it that you made the

decision that you were going to write a

book about this called the signs? Was

there a particular moment in this

process where you realized that you were

going to dig deeper and that then you

were ultimately going to share this with

the world?

>> I wasn't intending to write a book at

all, but I'd got to the point where I

had something that I could share with

people that I actually thought would be useful.

useful.

>> And at this point, you're communicating

with Robin

>> on a daily basis.

>> On a daily basis.

>> Give me some color to that. What does

that mean? Give me some examples if you

can. Well, either will be that like I'll

ask a question in my mind and the answer

will come in my mind but I know it's not

my own thought or I'll just get a direct

like message from him in my mind that I

know isn't me but mostly it's the signs.

So I've talked to you about the first

anniversary and how hard that was. By

the time of the second anniversary, um,

um,

I was actually in America

and I'd been filming in studio for a

week and then I was on the road on the

Navajo Nation and that was due to I was

due to fly out of the Navajo Nation on

the second anniversary of Robin's passing.

passing.

And on by that point I was feeling a bit

like I'd completely burnt out

and I had a choice about how to

reemerge. Um you know whether that was

going to be in a good way or I wasn't

going to be able to make it. Um and I

had this analogy of a phoenix rising

from the flames in my mind.

So on that trip I said

darling send me the sign of a phoenix.

>> You said that to who? to Robin in my

head. And I I chose the Phoenix because

it's really unusual. So, it's not like

if I said, you know, a dog, I'm probably

going to see a dog on the pavement every

day, but I chose something that is not

an easy thing to see. And I was actually

in Oklahoma City where, you know, you

wouldn't expect necessarily to see like

something unusual. Every single day

between my hotel and the studio, I went

through Chinatown and I passed a

restaurant called the Phoenix Garden

with a big emlazed like you know sign.

And on the way there I had had an

indirect flight from Boston and the

flight leaving Boston was late. So I

missed my connection in Chicago and I

had to spend a night in Chicago and then

I was, you know, late for filming and

stuff. And so when I was leaving to go

to LA, I was leaving on a on a

Sunday and from the Monday onwards I had

a podcast every single weekday in LA.

And so the team said to me, "We know

that you cannot miss that flight. We are

not going to put you on on an indirect

flight. We absolutely promise you direct

flight to LA. So you're fine from Monday

onwards." We were in the middle of

nowhere for like a week and basically my

flight wasn't booked because we didn't

know which airport we were going to be

at. We arrived on the eve of the

anniversary of Robin passing and my

flight was booked that day and it was

from Flagstaff in the Navajo Nation to

LA flying on the day of his anniversary.

No direct flights. I had to fly through

Phoenix, Arizona on the day of his anniversary.

anniversary.

You probably heard of that old analogy

of when you buy a car, you end up seeing

the car everywhere on the road. Like I

buy buy a new car and then I go

everywhere and it seems like everybody's

got my car because of do they call it

confirmation bias in science in

psychology where once you've got

something in your head you're more

likely to see that thing. I think

they've done studies on this where if

you are exposed to something or you're

told to think about something then

you'll see it more in the world. How do

you separate what you're saying from

that proven psychological phenomenon?

I don't I say use it to your advantage.

>> But how do you know that wasn't what was

happening in your life? Because if you

thought about the word Phoenix and then

over the course of a couple of days,

you're looking at everything, but you're

only going to register the things that

are emotionally reg resonant.

>> You know, I might have seen Phoenix a

lot of time over the last seven days,

but it means nothing to you.

>> Yeah. I didn't I didn't register it.

Again, I would say the number of times

this has happened, the the sort of like

how narrow I make the criteria. So, you

know, sometimes I say, I need to see a

button or a symbol of a button or the

word button, but it's got to have happen

three times by 11 p.m. tomorrow. Um, and

one of my friends says that, you know,

we share something which is if you see a

pair of lions. Um, and we send each

other pictures of it. But she says it

has to be if you went out of your way

and you walked a different way and then

you saw them. If it's like, you know,

the normal way that you go or somewhere

that you know that they exist, that

doesn't count. It has to be if you went

out of your way. So, I had a previous um

thing with Robin which was about the

figure of eight or the infinity symbol.

Um, and there's a story in the book of

how that was cropping up for me when I

actually met him. But there was a day

recently where I had some spaced out I

had three spaced out meetings in the

day. So I thought I'll take the

opportunity to walk for an hour between

them all.

>> And for the last meeting of the day,

I ended up walking past um UC, which is

University College Hospital, where he

was having treatment. And that had been

a really traumatic time for me when he

was in hospital there. And I have I will

have to say I kind of avoided that area

since then. I'll tell you about a

particular story that was like really

traumatizing for me. Um so on this walk

to um where I was going for the evening

for a book launch event, I ended up

walking past the hospital and and I

actually said in my head like why would

you make that happen to me? Like why why

do I have to walk past that building? I

never want to see that building again in

my life. And again, I said, "You have to

send me a sign."

And um by the time I got to Houston

station, so you know, you can people who

don't know can Google this. It's not

very far. There was an elastic band in

the figure of H signing on the pavement.

And that means something to me. Um,

so the thing about this this

confirmation bias thing is it it's

dependent on the reticular activating

system which is the system of your brain

that filters out what's not crucial to

your survival and filters in what it

wants you to notice.

And so

actually one of the things I've written

about in the book is the art of noticing

because really we live in this world

where the light you know life is passing

you by at 100 miles per hour. You're not

noticing things that could actually be

crucial to you thriving rather than you

just surviving.

And in this model called shared trait

vulnerability which falls under the

field of um research called neurosthetics.

neurosthetics.

So basically creativity is a positive

personality trait, right?

>> But there is a a high correlation

between creativity and psychopathology

which is mental illness particularly

depression, schizophrenia and alcoholism.

alcoholism.

And there are quite a few high-profile

examples of um creative people who had

mental illnesses like Alexander McQueen,

Kurt Cabain, Van Go. So what that shows

is that there's an area of overlap of

three particular ways of thinking that

are underpinned by neurology

that are the reasons that people with

mental illness are so creative and they

are basically

um hyperconivity.

So that's that's two things. That's

joining the dots in the material world

of things that aren't obvious to other

people, but it's also hyperconivity

inside the brain. So, if you think about

all these loes,

so heavy. If you think about all these

loes, the more lobes that are firing at

the same time, and there's also a cortex

that's known as the association cortex.

So, that one, you know, these loes can

be firing, but they're not necessarily

connecting up with each other. The more

interconnected all this firing is in the

brain, the more the brain opens up to

new ideas and so that underpins

creativity. And also this usually really

involves the visual cortex which is in

the occipital loes and that's why

sometimes people whether it's through

psychedelics or you know sort of sort of

altered states of consciousness through

creativity can can see things that they

didn't see before. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> There's also something called novelty

salience which is noticing new things.

um or just noticing things of importance

that you would otherwise have filtered

out. And there's something called um

attenuated latent inhibition or low

latent inhibition which is to do with

that filter. And it means that the

filter allows more things in than it

normally does.

>> So you can see we've got

hyperconnection, we've got noticing more

things, and we've got the filter like

loosening and allowing more things in.

Now, if you've got a high IQ, high

working memory, and you've got cognitive

flexibility, which is you can think, you

know, out of the box, that's a really

good thing. If you've got a low IQ,

you've got deficits in your working

memory, and you've got what's called

peververation, which is you just go over

the same thought pro process over and

over again, that can lead to you having

a psychological crisis. So I took that

model and thought if grief is like

psychosis and I'm currently in a very

vulnerable state, is creativity a

conduit for me to get not only back to

the state that I was in before, but into

a state of expanded awareness where I

can loosen the filter as I choose as I

choose fit. I can notice things that I

would have passed by before and I can

think differently about how my mind

works, how the world works, possibly

what happens after someone passes away.

And then I went and, you know, looked

into near-death experiences and terminal

lucidity and dark retreats. Like I said,

I went down a rabbit hole.

>> And what did you find in that rabbit

hole? at the border of life and death.

Usually within 1 to 24 hours of death,

someone who has

whose brain hasn't been functioning, who

can't remember the names of their own

children, suddenly becomes completely

lucid and says, "Steven darling, come

over here. Let me, you know, let's have

a nice like mother son chat." And then

that gives a lot of people hope, but

usually that means it's an hour or 23

hours till the person's going to die. We

can't explain that. How can a brain

that's irreversibly damaged suddenly

function completely normally? There is

no explanation for that. With the

near-death experiences,

I was particularly compelled by three stories.

stories.

Dr. Mary Neil, an orthopedic surgeon,

she's in that Netflix documentary,

Surviving Death. She was submerged

underwater for 15 or 20 minutes. She

should never have been able to be resuscitated.

resuscitated.

She describes her whole journey of going

to another realm, seeing, you know, a

being of light, being told that her life

isn't over. She has to turn back and

return to the physical world, even

though she could see her bloated body

and her friends trying to reach her to

resuscitate her and they couldn't. Dr.

Eban Alexander, who wrote Proof of

Heaven, he is a doctor. He was an

atheist. He was in a coma with bacterial

menitis and was pronounced clinically

dead and then basically came back and

said that he saw heaven and he now

believes in a god that is benign that

cares about the future of humanity. So

for me as a doctor hearing these stories

from other doctors was really really convincing.

convincing.

And then there's one story that um Dr.

Bruce Grayson told me he's a professor

of psychiatry at University of Virginia

who has done 50 years of research into

near-death experiences.

And he told me the story of a patient in ICU

ICU

who kept going into cardiac arrest and

he had a primary nurse who was a young

um 20-year-old nurse and they had a

really close bond. And one weekend she

was she had time off for the weekend and

he had a different nurse looking after

him and he went into cardiac arrest and

he had a near-death experience. And in

that near-death experience, he saw his

primary nurse. She said to him, "Your

life isn't over. You have to go back and

get better. And please tell my parents

I'm sorry about the red MG."

So he wakes up in ICU. He's got this

replacement nurse looking after him. and

he says, "The strangest thing just

happened. I um

had this experience of being in this

other world. I saw um my primary nurse

and she said I had to come back and she

also said, "Tell my parents sorry about

the red MG." So the temporary nurse

starts bursting into tears, runs out of

the room. He has no idea why. Someone

comes in and says, "What's just

happened?" he explains. And they tell

him that his primary nurse was given a

red MG for her 21st birthday, took it

out for a test run, crashed it into a

tree, and died.

Now, he didn't know she was dead, but he

saw her on the other side, and she told

him to come back.

>> And the guy that told you the story was

who relevant to the patient. Who said that?

that?

>> Dr. Bruce Grayson. He um has done 50

years of research on near-death

experiences. He's got over 5,000

recorded cases of patients of his own

that he's looked after that have had

near-death experiences. And he also

shared with me with me the numbers of of

uh cases that other people have on

databases. So, you know, we're looking

at over 10,000 cases globally recorded

at the moment.

What is it that you believe based on

those near-death experiences like the

red MG story

>> and based on this phenomenon of terminal lucidity?

lucidity?

So, Professor Alexander Bathani, who

wrote threshold about terminal lucidity,

put it really nicely when he said,

"Maybe at the border of life and death,

we see something that is true all along,

but we don't, for whatever reason, see

it or acknowledge it whilst we're alive

and well, which is that the mind and

body can operate independently of each other.

other.

>> It is quite it is quite shocking. is

this case from 2009,

an 82-year-old woman with Alzheimer's

disease who was non-verbal and

non-responsive and had no apparent

recognition of her surroundings or

families for years. And then one day

before her death, she suddenly sat up in

hospital, looked around and recognized

her daughter by name, spoke clearly,

reminisced about the past, thanked her

family for caring for her. Her speech

was coherent, her memory was intact, and

her personality recognizable, as though

she had never been ill. She fell asleep

that evening and died peacefully during

the night.

>> And what do you think's happening there?

What do you think's happening there?

>> It's possibly, you know, partially

explained by a a surge in

neurochemicals, but it's not explained

by how can those neurochemicals act if

the physical neurons and sinapses are

damaged. There there is no explanation.

The only explanation is that the mind is

not emergent from material matter. It's

not that the mind, the thoughts, the

emotions, the psyche cannot be solely

emerging from physical matter. That's

the only explanation from what we

understand so far.

>> And so what is it that you now believe?

You believe that our souls and our

bodies are two separate things.

>> And where does our soul live if it's not

living inside of me?

>> So like where is Robin? M so I believe

that you know whether whether you want

to call it the universe

consciousness um collective

consciousness godhead cosmic soup I

don't the word for it isn't important

there's there's somewhere that that

energy goes and it still exists in some

form and if you believe in reincarnation

then you may believe that it then enters

another body as a vessel and you know

has a different life um But

But

it doesn't go away.

>> I'm going to say something that you I

know you're not going to like, but I

know because I feel it personally. I

feel it from I feel it like with the

person I've been closest to in my entire life

life

who I know would never leave me if they

didn't absolutely have to. But I can

back that up to the extent of I can I

can say you can't prove that this isn't

true. I can back that up with everything

that I put in the book. And I'm not the

only one. Dr. David Eagleman at Stanford

says, you know, this idea of the brain

being like a radio and receiving signals

from outside. We can't prove it, but we

categorically cannot say it's not true.

Professor Donald Hoffman suggests that

spaceime is not the basis of how the

universe works. suggests that

consciousness is the basis of how the

universe works. We can't prove that's

not true. And I find that really

exciting. I mean, as a scientist, you're

supposed to challenge the status quo.

You're supposed to be curious. You

can't, as a scientist, believe that

everything we know now is all there is.

There's no point to being a scientist if

that's what you believe.

>> I asked you this question about the gym

earlier on about is it kind of like

training in the gym. Are there things

you think people could do to heighten

their ability to speak to loved ones

that might have passed or to heighten

their ability to tap into signs?

>> So I go through this in the book and and

I chose the order quite carefully. So I

talk about neuroesthetics which is you

noticing beauty basically if not like

actually engaging in the arts. There's a

lot of evidence for engaging in the arts

in terms of like um increasing your

novelty salience which is noticing new

things which is part of the journey of

opening up that filter.

>> Um and then there's a whole chapter on

nature because I think a lot of signs

come from nature like butterflies,

robins, um sort of you know spiral formations,

formations,

cloud formations. So noticing nature

more can help you you know also to

receive these signs. And then community

is a huge part of it because you know if

I had this conversation with you and you

totally shut me down and said it's not

provable. This is ridiculous I'm not

airing this episode. That would have a

very different like effect on me

>> to you even being open to like asking me

challenging questions that I welcome but also

also

engaging in this conversation and sort

of you know may feels a little bit like

maybe questioning you know some things

that you might do differently. Um, so

those are three very important parts of

like sort of part two of the book. Part

one is more about what are signs, what

are you missing, you know, have you been

receiving signs already.

>> One of the things that I when I was

going through my sort of um transition

from like being religious to being

agnostic, I'd say cuz I wouldn't call

myself an atheist is I was watching all

these um atheist minds debate and talk

and stuff and one of the things one of

them said is that if coincidence didn't

happen in our lives then that would be a

miracle. like statistically,

mathematically, if at sometimes you

don't think of Dave and then the phone

rings and it's Dave, that would actually

be more mathematically improbable

>> than it happening sometimes. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> If you think about, you know, the if you

had this on a like a distribution cup or something,

something,

>> it is likely mathematically that really

unlikely things will happen sometimes. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Right. So, I I've always had that in my

head as a way to sort of rationalize

coincidence. So when coincidence happens

I think well probabilistically

really unlikely things have to happen

and if they never happen then that's a miracle.

miracle. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Does that make sense?

>> Yeah it makes sense.

>> Like mathematically you would say like

>> likely things happen often unlikely

things happen less often. Extremely

unlikely things happen way less often. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> That's like the nature of like maths,

right? So when extremely unlikely things

happen, I say actually that makes sense

because probabistically those things

happen infrequently. They're not

happening every single day. Like right

now I'm thinking of I can name 10

people. I guarantee when I go to my

phone none of those 10 people have text

me. But if I do that every day one day

I'm going to say, "Hey Steve, checking

in." Which makes sense because of the

the laws of

>> But I don't want you to do that. I want

you to just like be open to naturally

thinking of someone and seeing if that

does happen or you know kind of or

asking for a sign and seeing if it comes

into your life. That that's that's all

I'm asking like what you know just try

it. It's not going to hurt you. And I'm

not just saying that to you. I'm saying

it to everyone.

>> And how do you think that would benefit me?

me?

>> I think it makes you believe in

something bigger than yourself.

>> Yeah. Um,

>> and why is that so important?

>> Because I think a life where all you're

trying to do is get through and meet

your needs is

life can be better than that. Um, I

think a life where you feel more

connected to yourself, to others, to

something greater gives you purpose. Um,

there's a lot of research that shows

that having a purpose that transcends

just yourself is actually really healthy

and important.

>> And what is that for you now? that

transcendent layer in your life. How do

you define it? Is it a religion? Is it

something else?

>> It's definitely not religion. Um

I guess it's spirituality and you know a

form which will mean different things to

different people. It's definitely about

caring for humanity.

>> Is it a god, a creator?

>> For me, no. Um but 85% of people

globally believe in religion under God.

So it's important. Um, I think for me it's

it's about

about

giving like a voice of relevance and

helping people to feel seen and heard

cuz I think that's very lacking and you

know I'm in the enormously privileged

position that you have given me of being

able to do that and I want to use that

in a really like positive way.

>> How does this overlap with or sit

alongside what people call intuition

>> because you talk about that as well in

the book.

>> Yeah. Um, I know there's so much like

there's still like so much else I want

to say.

>> Just keep going.

>> So, intuition is I mean intuition is

what it is. It's accessing inner wisdom,

right? But I've I've included it as a

really important part of the book

because I believe that it's a way to

receive and interpret your signs.

But um I just want to go back to

something I said earlier which is about

how trauma can be stored in your body

and you know to some extent it can't be

retrieved through talking therapy

because there aren't words for it

because it's actually embedded into the

tissues of your body. There's a really

exciting new hypothesis for how that

might work called the serotonin

hypothesis. So, previously

I think it would make sense that if you

know, for example, when when Robin was

in hospital,

I would like sit in a very hunched over

position and my fists would be clenched

cuz I felt like I was fighting for his

life all the time. And if I relaxed for

a millisecond, he could die. Um, so it

makes sense to me that that those

postural issues would show up for me

later. and you know in terms of like a

aches and pains and you know perhaps

sort of well not perhaps my as my

Pilates and yoga teachers keep telling

me like issues with you know certain

parts of my spine and stuff but um the

serotonin hypothesis is very exciting as

a neuroscientist because a lot of people

have heard of Bessel Vanderolk's work

and the book the body keeps the score

and it makes sense kind of intuitively

that the body does keep the score and

and like I've said there's an amount of

trauma that you can't express you can't

articulate verbally. So we believe we

understand that there are imprints of

that in the body. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> But we have we've never really

understood how that works. Um and we you

know I've talked before I think with you

about intuition

through a process called hebian learning

which is neurons that fire together wire

together gets pushed deeper and deeper

into neurons from the outer cortex the

lyic system the brain stem into gut

neurons and that's why intuition is

called gut instinct and we understand

that through stress postures you could

have bracing patterns in your muscles

for like the trauma that you've experienced

experienced

Fascia is the connective tissue that

holds your entire body together, all

your organs, all your muscles. And until

fairly recently, fascia was thought of

as a vestigial organ. It was cut away in

surgery without thinking of any that it

would have any effect on the rest of

your body. Now, it's understood more to

actually be an an organ of its own and

an important one. And the serotonin hypothesis

hypothesis

goes some way to explain how the level

of constriction of capillaries and the

amount of nutrients that's released to

skin, fascia, and muscle is a mechanism

for how trauma is held in the body.

>> And with that in mind, what do we do to

get rid of that trauma held in the body?

>> Physical activities. Um so dancing,

singing, drumming, humming, chanting,

massage, yoga, craniosacral therapy. And

you'll notice that the ones I started

with are, you know, very related to

ancient wisdom. So our ancestors knew

this. Um for example, in ancient Greek

um uh ancient Greek burials, they would

whail and beat their chests. So they

were getting rid of grief by like

screaming but also by beating their

muscles and letting like trauma exit

their body.

>> I'm very well aware that

there's probably a lot of people who

have sent this conversation to a friend

who is struggling right now

>> and that that friend who has lost a

loved one, potentially a husband,

potentially a wife, potentially, you

know, god forbid a child or a

grandparent or something is listening to

this because they are in search of

answers for their own healing. Mhm.

>> You've been there. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> If you were to advise them on

their own healing journey, what advice

would you give them?

>> The first thing would be to not repress

or deny how they're feeling and, you

know, really

feel the emotions that that have to come

along with grief. Um,

I've, you know, I had amazing talking

therapy which definitely helped me a

lot. So, if people have access to that,

um, professionally, then great. If not,

then, you know, if you've got close

friends that you can talk to, then

talking it out does help. But, I've

really learned that there's a limit to

how much that helps and that some sort

of physical therapy um is really helpful

as part of it. Those would be the

basics. I would say

time in nature has been so healing for

me. Um some form of creative outlet

whether it's making or beholding. So you

don't have to be good at art. If if you

draw, you know, a picture of how you're

feeling emotionally or a sketch of your

loved one, it doesn't have to be good.

You get benefits from doing that. It's

an out creative outlet for your grief.

That's probably the second level. And

you know, the third level to me is if

you've got any inclination to receive

signs um or just be open to, you know, a

white feather landing at your doorstep

um or a bird coming to visit you or

something that means something to you,

then that can bring a lot of comfort and

guidance and joy.

>> And you also assert that things like

being in nature, creativity, honing into

our intuition increase the probability

of us receiving these signs. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

Well, receiving and being able to

interpret in a way that's meaningful for you.

you.

>> Gut instinct.

Um, in the book you talk about how

strengthening one's gut health can have

an impact on gut instinct.

>> Explain that to me.

So the the body is basically the

physical foundation for um you know all

of your senses to be able to to flourish

to your higher mental faculties to be

able to flourish and ultimately for you

know whatever spiritual experience you

have of life to to be able to be at its

fullest and best as well. So taking care

of the physical foundations is really

important and um you know we could talk

about all the usual things like sleep

and diet and exercise, mindfulness,

stress management, but I want to really

focus strongly on the the gut brain axis

because a lot of new research has come

up since I wrote the source.

So it's actually, you know, we know a

lot about this birectional communication

between the brain and the gut. is

actually a three-way system which is the

brain, the gut itself, the gut neurons

and the gut microbiome which is

trillions of bacteria and fungi and you

know organisms that um are basically

determining the health of our entire

system because they're connected to our

immune system to our skin to our oral

microbiome and and the brain. So the way

that you the the most direct access you

have to your brain is through your gut.

The gut is the most direct way that you

can influence your brain and you can do

that through exercise obviously diet um supplementation

supplementation

even like um meditation and art and

music therapy have a beneficial effect

on your gut microbiome as well which has

a knock-on effect on the neurons and the

the brain and they communicate with each

other many ways mostly through the vagus nerve.

nerve.

>> What's the vagus nerve?

>> The vagus nerve is a cranial nerve. So

it comes from your skull. It's Latin for

wandering because it's the longest nerve

that goes through your body. So it goes

there's two, the right and the left. And

they go all the way from your cranium.

>> What's my cranium?

>> Your cranium is the bone around your brain.

brain. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Um so inside that um down your neck they

go through your diaphragm and to your intestine.

intestine.

>> I'll put a photo up on screen for

everybody wants to see where their vagus

nerve is.

>> Also other nerves. So the nerves that

innovate the gut organs um they're

called aphrant intestinal nerves.

They're also involved in this

communication. Then there's hormones and

there's cytoine um messages which are

chemical messages that aren't hormonal.

Your immune system actually also

produces neurotransmitters and there are

immune cells in your brain as well. So

those are all the ways that we know

currently that the brain and the gut

communicate with each other. And so what

does this mean in terms of my gut health

and ways to influence my my brain? Does

it mean that I I need to be really big

on my prebiotics and my probiotics to

make sure my my guts intact? And if I do

that, then my intuition will be sharper.

>> Mhm. So that's true, but I always like

people to understand what's behind that,

not just mindlessly take prebiotics and

probiotics. So what we're trying to do

is reduce inflammation throughout the

system. And so basically because

the brain is a small organ in in our

entire system but it uses up at least

20% of our energy. So it's very

vulnerable to um

what what we call oxidative stress or

free radicals. So every time like

there's any turnover of cells in our

brain or our body basically as we live

the wear and tear of daily life we

release free radicals which are

molecules that can damage cells

particularly nerve cells and because the

brain is has such high turnover of

energy it's particularly vulnerable to

free radical attack. So reducing

inflammation and putting things that are

neuroprotective around it like certain

vitamins and minerals is really

important. And the hippocampus part of

the brain which um it has high cell

turnover because it's to do with memory

laying down memories and obviously well

into adulthood we're still doing that.

That's also very vulnerable to free

radical damage and that's why we can get

memory and cognitive impairments and

dementias as we get older. So the the

modern western diet causes something

called disbiosis which is that your gut

isn't in a good state and that creates a

cascade of inflammation and releases

molecules some of which can cross the

bloodb brain barrier and therefore cause

inflammation in the brain. So we want to

minimize that as much as possible

and put in as many protective and

beneficial factors as possible. If we're

doing that, the system's in what we call

homeostasis, which is good balance. It's

kind of starting to take care of itself.

It's got all the nutrients that it

needs. It's hydrated. It's oxygenated.

That's when you've got extra resources

to do the higher mental functions. And

up until today, pretty much I've

described those as being able to solve

complex problems, being able to think

flexibly, creatively, override your biases.

biases.

But now I'm proposing that there's more

than that that we can do. There's

accessing levels of intuition that we

didn't know we had. very much through

through the same mechanism of how I

described trauma being stored in the

body. Hidden wisdom is also stored in

the body. It's not just in your brain.

And therefore the same therapies like

beholding and making art, humming,

drumming, storytelling, dancing, yoga,

just movement can help us to access that

intuition that isn't just in our brain

and our mind and take us to a next level

of intuition that's not just cerebral,

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Use the word dark retreats. I've never

heard that phrase before.

>> So dark retreats come from um a Tibetan

religion or philosophy, but it's um it's

seen throughout the ancient

civilization. So the ancient Greeks and

Romans used to bury people actually for

days and then they would come out and be

like the seers and the mystics of that

um community.

But there's most research um available

in dark retreats cuz it's still

happening today.

>> What is a dark retreat?

>> A dark retreat is um have you heard of

silent retreat? Silent meditation.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. My girlfriend went on one.

>> Yeah. So that's the kind of thing she

would do. So basically you can go away

for a few days to a few weeks and you're

just in silence and you're meditating

and doing breath work most of the time.

In a dark retreat you are in like pitch black for I mean you can go and do it

black for I mean you can go and do it for a few hours or a weekend but it's

for a few hours or a weekend but it's meant to be in sevens. So 7 to 49 days.

meant to be in sevens. So 7 to 49 days. The monks do 49 days. If as a you know a

The monks do 49 days. If as a you know a person who's interested spiritually you

person who's interested spiritually you wanted to do it quite seriously you

wanted to do it quite seriously you would go for 7 days and you would be in

would go for 7 days and you would be in a room or a cave that's got double walls

a room or a cave that's got double walls so it's completely dark and um

so it's completely dark and um the reason for doing this is that not

the reason for doing this is that not all of us can have a near-death

all of us can have a near-death experience right so this is a way of

experience right so this is a way of emulate it's the closest way of

emulate it's the closest way of emulating that for anyone like you or I

emulating that for anyone like you or I to get access to the benefits of a

to get access to the benefits of a near-death experience

near-death experience um which I've outlined them all in the

um which I've outlined them all in the book. So in a dark retreat at first you

book. So in a dark retreat at first you sleep a lot because it's dark. You're

sleep a lot because it's dark. You're releasing a lot lot of melatonin from

releasing a lot lot of melatonin from your pineal gland. So you fall asleep in

your pineal gland. So you fall asleep in darkness. You awake in darkness and

darkness. You awake in darkness and basically that kind of makes you feel

basically that kind of makes you feel more sleepy. So you sleep a lot. After a

more sleepy. So you sleep a lot. After a couple of days,

couple of days, you start to see

like pulsations of light. It might be like little shooting stars or kind of

like little shooting stars or kind of just like little sparks here and there.

just like little sparks here and there. And then eventually it feels like the

And then eventually it feels like the walls

walls are dimly alike.

are dimly alike. So in complete darkness you start to see

So in complete darkness you start to see light.

light. Obviously there's an element of like

Obviously there's an element of like hallucinating at this point. And so

hallucinating at this point. And so after three, four, five days, you will

after three, four, five days, you will actually start to see animals real or

actually start to see animals real or sort of fantastical. And eventually

sort of fantastical. And eventually people see like deities or beings like

people see like deities or beings like people do in near-death experiences.

people do in near-death experiences. Um, and when people come out of these

Um, and when people come out of these retreats, they experience many of the

retreats, they experience many of the same benefits like, you know, a real

same benefits like, you know, a real sort of

sort of like joy for life, less fear of death,

like joy for life, less fear of death, more compassion for other people, less

more compassion for other people, less fear of failing, so you know, taking

fear of failing, so you know, taking more healthy risks. So, it it's a way

more healthy risks. So, it it's a way basically of em emulating a near-death

basically of em emulating a near-death experience.

experience. >> And it therefore convinces you that

>> And it therefore convinces you that there's more than you can see in your

there's more than you can see in your day-to-day life. And

day-to-day life. And therefore that expands your mind in a

therefore that expands your mind in a way that's beneficial.

way that's beneficial. >> Yeah, it's another uh example of an

>> Yeah, it's another uh example of an altered state of consciousness. You can

altered state of consciousness. You can also get altered states of consciousness

also get altered states of consciousness through conscious connected or

through conscious connected or holotropic breath work and through the

holotropic breath work and through the use of psychedelic um plants as well.

use of psychedelic um plants as well. How do we know that it's it's not just a

How do we know that it's it's not just a changing of our neurological state or

changing of our neurological state or the the chemicals in our brain that are

the the chemicals in our brain that are causing us to interpret things

causing us to interpret things differently with our senses? Because,

differently with our senses? Because, you know, we've all I said we all many

you know, we've all I said we all many of us have experienced having some kind

of us have experienced having some kind of stimulant or psychedelic or some

of stimulant or psychedelic or some compound in a rave or at a festival

compound in a rave or at a festival that's made us see the world differently

that's made us see the world differently for a moment. And science would say

for a moment. And science would say that's just the neurochemicals in our

that's just the neurochemicals in our brain

brain >> doing different things which are

>> doing different things which are changing our perception. They wouldn't

changing our perception. They wouldn't say necessarily that it's a different

say necessarily that it's a different realm or a different dimension.

realm or a different dimension. >> Yeah. And I I think you're right. I

>> Yeah. And I I think you're right. I think it is that. So as a

think it is that. So as a neuropharmacologist I you know

neuropharmacologist I you know understand as much as the research says

understand as much as the research says about the it's mo mostly like I said in

about the it's mo mostly like I said in in the body in the brain with

in the body in the brain with psychedelics it's mostly 5HT or

psychedelics it's mostly 5HT or serotonin 2a receptors and there's a

serotonin 2a receptors and there's a level of hyperconivity within the brain

level of hyperconivity within the brain particularly as I said in the visual

particularly as I said in the visual cortex here which allows people to see

cortex here which allows people to see things that they don't normally see. M

things that they don't normally see. M >> um and I think the way to

>> um and I think the way to apply that in your life is that it's a

apply that in your life is that it's a glimpse into what's possible.

glimpse into what's possible. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> Um once you've experienced that, it

>> Um once you've experienced that, it could either be that you find other

could either be that you find other natural ways of experiencing that. So

natural ways of experiencing that. So there's there's a paper I can forward to

there's there's a paper I can forward to you that shows that certain forms of

you that shows that certain forms of conscious connected breath work produce

conscious connected breath work produce the same effect as a moderate dose of

the same effect as a moderate dose of psilocybin,

psilocybin, >> which is magic mushrooms.

>> which is magic mushrooms. >> Yes. And this um research came out after

>> Yes. And this um research came out after psilocybin was banned and practitioners

psilocybin was banned and practitioners thought well what are other ways that we

thought well what are other ways that we can help people to achieve these altered

can help people to achieve these altered states of consciousness. Um and

states of consciousness. Um and personally I believe that you know

personally I believe that you know having like a completely like all

having like a completely like all inspiring experience in nature or for me

inspiring experience in nature or for me like the ballet particularly when I've

like the ballet particularly when I've been so lucky sometimes to sit in the

been so lucky sometimes to sit in the wings and you just completely feel like

wings and you just completely feel like you're part of it. I mean, I've

you're part of it. I mean, I've literally had a spiritual experience

literally had a spiritual experience sitting in the wings watching actually

sitting in the wings watching actually was one of my friends, the principal

was one of my friends, the principal dancer, dancing just so overwhelming.

dancer, dancing just so overwhelming. It's completely an altered state of

It's completely an altered state of consciousness. Um, so there are there

consciousness. Um, so there are there are other ways of accessing that. Um,

are other ways of accessing that. Um, but I think it depends like why you want

but I think it depends like why you want to and what it means to you, but at

to and what it means to you, but at minimum, these sorts of things that I'm

minimum, these sorts of things that I'm talking about are ways of understanding

talking about are ways of understanding that there's more to life than what we

that there's more to life than what we know.

know. And how does that meaningfully change

like the concept of what happiness is and contentment is and like living a

and contentment is and like living a good life is?

good life is? >> So what I think is really interesting is

>> So what I think is really interesting is that we don't actually have to

that we don't actually have to experience certain things ourselves. So,

experience certain things ourselves. So, there's a lot of research that shows

there's a lot of research that shows that students from various different um

that students from various different um areas of expertise who simply learn

areas of expertise who simply learn about near-death experiences actually

about near-death experiences actually get some of the same benefits and that

get some of the same benefits and that these can last for over a year later. So

these can last for over a year later. So understanding that when someone sees

understanding that when someone sees that there's something greater than us,

that there's something greater than us, when someone sees the interconnectedness

when someone sees the interconnectedness of of everything, when someone

of of everything, when someone understands how small some of their

understands how small some of their problems are and the greater, you know,

problems are and the greater, you know, picture of things, helps people to be

picture of things, helps people to be more compassionate, more grateful,

more compassionate, more grateful, kinder to others, um less materialistic

kinder to others, um less materialistic is is really interesting. And I think

is is really interesting. And I think anything that we can do to help us, you

anything that we can do to help us, you know, free us from some of those chains

know, free us from some of those chains that I think hold us down in the

that I think hold us down in the material world, particularly in the

material world, particularly in the western world, is it's healthy for us

western world, is it's healthy for us physically,

physically, mentally, emotionally,

mentally, emotionally, but it also brings in this element of

but it also brings in this element of spirituality that I think is just so

spirituality that I think is just so lacking in the world at the moment and

lacking in the world at the moment and and could be so helpful because if we

and could be so helpful because if we look back at the way that our ancestors

look back at the way that our ancestors used their senses and their intuition to

used their senses and their intuition to interpret the land. Like a cloud

interpret the land. Like a cloud formation could mean that rain's coming,

formation could mean that rain's coming, but it could also mean that your

but it could also mean that your ancestors were talking to you. Just

ancestors were talking to you. Just seems like such a beautiful way to live.

seems like such a beautiful way to live. And

And when we lived in, you know, in

when we lived in, you know, in Paleolithic times, we didn't have spare

Paleolithic times, we didn't have spare resources for having fun, but we adorned

resources for having fun, but we adorned ourselves. We danced. We told stories.

ourselves. We danced. We told stories. We made, you know, cave art. So I think

We made, you know, cave art. So I think that just really

that just really reminds us that those things that are

reminds us that those things that are often seen as luxuries or frivolous,

often seen as luxuries or frivolous, they're not at all. They're

they're not at all. They're fundamentally important.

fundamentally important. >> Believing in these things itself is good

>> Believing in these things itself is good for us. Is that what you believe? You

for us. Is that what you believe? You believe that believing in something

believe that believing in something transcendent, whether it's spiritual or

transcendent, whether it's spiritual or religious, is actually just good for us.

religious, is actually just good for us. So that's reason enough to believe it.

So that's reason enough to believe it. >> It's reason enough to believe it, but I

>> It's reason enough to believe it, but I think it will naturally change what you

think it will naturally change what you do once you believe it. You're not going

do once you believe it. You're not going to live in the same way if you if you

to live in the same way if you if you know believe some fundamentally

know believe some fundamentally different things

different things >> and the ways in which it changes what

>> and the ways in which it changes what you believe are beneficial to you. So

you believe are beneficial to you. So are you saying that that is reason

are you saying that that is reason enough to believe it? Like to want to

enough to believe it? Like to want to believe it?

believe it? >> I think it's reason enough to try it.

>> I think it's reason enough to try it. >> Yeah. I mean sometimes it causes people

>> Yeah. I mean sometimes it causes people through human history to do awful

through human history to do awful things, right? To kill themselves, to to

things, right? To kill themselves, to to strap bombs to themselves and do

strap bombs to themselves and do horrific things because they believe in

horrific things because they believe in something transcendent.

it it can also lead to like destructive behavior.

behavior. >> I mean, I don't think there's any

>> I mean, I don't think there's any evidence from near-death experiences

evidence from near-death experiences that that's the case. I think I know

that that's the case. I think I know what that what you're referring to is

what that what you're referring to is something that's, you know, more

something that's, you know, more fundamentally like religious. And

fundamentally like religious. And >> cuz I was watching that I've been

>> cuz I was watching that I've been watching Jack told me to watch this

watching Jack told me to watch this Capture Bin Laden documentary. I was

Capture Bin Laden documentary. I was watching it last night and these people

watching it last night and these people flew themselves into buildings because

flew themselves into buildings because they believe in, you know, they were

they believe in, you know, they were obviously radicalized in various ways,

obviously radicalized in various ways, but they they believed in going to a

but they they believed in going to a afterlife that would be better than this

afterlife that would be better than this one and that they were sacrificing

one and that they were sacrificing themselves

themselves >> for the greater good. So, it's just it's

>> for the greater good. So, it's just it's I guess it's a side point that just the

I guess it's a side point that just the belief in transcendence itself in some

belief in transcendence itself in some regard isn't necessarily always going to

regard isn't necessarily always going to guarantee our behaviors on on this

guarantee our behaviors on on this planet are productive. Yeah. And I was

planet are productive. Yeah. And I was going to say like perhaps it's something

going to say like perhaps it's something more dogmatic, but I think you're

more dogmatic, but I think you're absolutely right to raise that point.

absolutely right to raise that point. And I'm not trying to sit here and say I

And I'm not trying to sit here and say I found like the perfect solution and

found like the perfect solution and everyone should do this and it's all

everyone should do this and it's all good. Like that's just I know that's not

good. Like that's just I know that's not true. I'm not trying to say that at all.

true. I'm not trying to say that at all. I think we should absolutely be

I think we should absolutely be questioning everything that that I'm

questioning everything that that I'm saying and I will keep questioning the

saying and I will keep questioning the way that I'm living my life and keep

way that I'm living my life and keep trying to learn and grow.

trying to learn and grow. >> I guess the point is just the belief in

>> I guess the point is just the belief in something transcendent. Does that make

something transcendent. Does that make our lives necessarily better? I guess

our lives necessarily better? I guess the answer is I can. It can.

the answer is I can. It can. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I'm really obsessed at the moment

>> I'm really obsessed at the moment actually with this idea of purpose and

actually with this idea of purpose and meaning because obviously we're living

meaning because obviously we're living in a society that's more and more

in a society that's more and more individualistic and

individualistic and >> independence is kind of vogue and

>> independence is kind of vogue and um because of a variety of things that

um because of a variety of things that have happened over the last 50 60 70

have happened over the last 50 60 70 years. We have more independence. Women

years. We have more independence. Women in particular have a lot more

in particular have a lot more independence which I think everyone is

independence which I think everyone is very most people are very um supportive

very most people are very um supportive of.

of. >> We have more choice than ever before and

>> We have more choice than ever before and with choice comes independence. I can

with choice comes independence. I can choose now when I have a family and

choose now when I have a family and maybe I couldn't choose before.

maybe I couldn't choose before. >> Um, and with choice and with freedom,

>> Um, and with choice and with freedom, I think some of our more short-term

I think some of our more short-term hedonistic desires and temptations take

hedonistic desires and temptations take hold and we end up sacrificing the tribe

hold and we end up sacrificing the tribe and shared responsibility and dependence

and shared responsibility and dependence and a lot of our meaning came from like

and a lot of our meaning came from like those things. So I I feel to some degree

those things. So I I feel to some degree that when we think about how we lad up

that when we think about how we lad up from like me to like my family to my

from like me to like my family to my city to my nation and then maybe to my

city to my nation and then maybe to my God,

God, >> those layers have fallen away and now

>> those layers have fallen away and now for many of us it's just me

for many of us it's just me >> and that's causing a crisis of meaning

>> and that's causing a crisis of meaning and purpose in in life because we're

and purpose in in life because we're kind of unanchored.

kind of unanchored. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> What's your perspective on this? And um

>> What's your perspective on this? And um do you think it's true that we're like

do you think it's true that we're like we're more unanchored than we've ever

we're more unanchored than we've ever been? And how do you think we get back

been? And how do you think we get back to that? If we can relate to feeling a

to that? If we can relate to feeling a little bit lost and anchored and the

little bit lost and anchored and the sort of prevalence in my view of people

sort of prevalence in my view of people having more and more midlife crisis and

having more and more midlife crisis and turning to religion or spirituality or

turning to religion or spirituality or something.

something. >> Yeah. Well, I I actually called this in

>> Yeah. Well, I I actually called this in March 2020 and it's on record because I

March 2020 and it's on record because I was on a podcast and I I said I foresee

was on a podcast and I I said I foresee a huge mental health crisis, but we

a huge mental health crisis, but we could choose for it to be a spiritual

could choose for it to be a spiritual revolution.

revolution. And so then obviously the you know the

And so then obviously the you know the rest of the pandemic happened and then

rest of the pandemic happened and then there was sort of a return to society

there was sort of a return to society which I think people found really hard

which I think people found really hard mentally as well and at the same time

mentally as well and at the same time there was the cost of living crisis, the

there was the cost of living crisis, the wealth gap, a new war, the crime rates

wealth gap, a new war, the crime rates you know certainly in London like just

you know certainly in London like just for my life experience they had you know

for my life experience they had you know significantly grown um for reasons that

significantly grown um for reasons that we're all contributors too but you know

we're all contributors too but you know it changes how safe you feel in society.

it changes how safe you feel in society. And I'm a big fan of technology.

And I'm a big fan of technology. Obviously, I'm a scientist, but it is

Obviously, I'm a scientist, but it is ironic that we seem to be more

ironic that we seem to be more disconnected than ever when in in one

disconnected than ever when in in one way we're we're more connected than

way we're we're more connected than we've ever been before.

we've ever been before. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> And

>> And I, you know, I I've said this before,

I, you know, I I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I think the way

but I'll say it again. I think the way out of that is is a return to ancient

out of that is is a return to ancient wisdom to true connection, which I

wisdom to true connection, which I believe can coexist with being

believe can coexist with being technologically connected and advanced.

technologically connected and advanced. Um,

Um, but yeah, I just I just think we've lost

but yeah, I just I just think we've lost what it means to be human, which means,

what it means to be human, which means, you know, really being in touch with

you know, really being in touch with yourself and being part of a community

yourself and being part of a community and and caring about something more than

and and caring about something more than just your own life and and your

just your own life and and your immediate, you know, inner circle. And

immediate, you know, inner circle. And what is true connection in your

what is true connection in your definition of the word?

definition of the word? >> Because I guess there's false connection

>> Because I guess there's false connection if there's true connection.

if there's true connection. >> So what is true connection?

>> So what is true connection? >> Um

>> Um >> and what is false connection?

>> and what is false connection? >> Well, I'll just go over, you know, what

>> Well, I'll just go over, you know, what I've said before cuz it's about

I've said before cuz it's about connection to yourself, to others, and

connection to yourself, to others, and you know, sort of the world or something

you know, sort of the world or something greater. And I, you know, it's about

greater. And I, you know, it's about something that's that's deep and not

something that's that's deep and not transactional. It's about something

transactional. It's about something that's meaningful. It's about something

that's meaningful. It's about something that's altruistic.

that's altruistic. I think it's about contributing

I think it's about contributing >> that day when you walked past the

>> that day when you walked past the hospital. What did you experience?

>> Um, it triggers me seeing that building and I just

and I just I you know I had obviously looked on

I you know I had obviously looked on Google Maps but not really realized I

Google Maps but not really realized I would walk past it and if I had realized

would walk past it and if I had realized I would have walked a different way and

I would have walked a different way and I remember just thinking

I remember just thinking it's unfair that I had to see this

it's unfair that I had to see this building. It was unnecessary

building. It was unnecessary unnecessarily a trigger for me. and and

unnecessarily a trigger for me. and and obvious obviously saying to Robin, you

obvious obviously saying to Robin, you need to send me a sign. But there

need to send me a sign. But there there's a reason for that which is, you

there's a reason for that which is, you know, I mean, I went to that hospital

know, I mean, I went to that hospital every day for a month for his first day

every day for a month for his first day and I think about 3 weeks for the second

and I think about 3 weeks for the second one. Um,

one. Um, but he had two admissions to ICU and one

but he had two admissions to ICU and one of them I'd been, you know, to visit him

of them I'd been, you know, to visit him for the day.

for the day. He'd been bedridden for quite a few

He'd been bedridden for quite a few weeks by then. And I came home. I was

weeks by then. And I came home. I was just sort of deescalating and, you know,

just sort of deescalating and, you know, sitting on the sofa and getting ready

sitting on the sofa and getting ready for the evening. And then suddenly I saw

for the evening. And then suddenly I saw the emergency line was calling. And I

the emergency line was calling. And I could hear them saying his heart rate

could hear them saying his heart rate went up to 200, like ICU, we're here

went up to 200, like ICU, we're here now. You know, we did a crash call. And

now. You know, we did a crash call. And they're just like talking, talking,

they're just like talking, talking, talking. And I suddenly just said,

talking. And I suddenly just said, "Should I come back to the hospital?"

"Should I come back to the hospital?" and she said yes in a tone of voice that

and she said yes in a tone of voice that was like you need to get here as quickly

was like you need to get here as quickly as possible. Got in the Uber. It's a 30

as possible. Got in the Uber. It's a 30 minute Uber ride from my house and

minute Uber ride from my house and messaged my best friend and said that

messaged my best friend and said that I've got to rush back to the hospital.

I've got to rush back to the hospital. He was on the 15th floor. So I was like

He was on the 15th floor. So I was like waiting for the lift. Got up there, saw

waiting for the lift. Got up there, saw the matron coming to unlock the door.

the matron coming to unlock the door. And I just said, "Is he in his room?"

And I just said, "Is he in his room?" And she said, "Yes, he's in his But she

And she said, "Yes, he's in his But she her face looked like not good. Ran round

her face looked like not good. Ran round and saw all the machinery from ICU in

and saw all the machinery from ICU in the corridor with like a hundred wires

the corridor with like a hundred wires coming out of the room.

coming out of the room. Ran into the room and just saw Robin sat

Ran into the room and just saw Robin sat up in bed. Huge smile when he saw me.

up in bed. Huge smile when he saw me. And he just said to me, "When I thought

And he just said to me, "When I thought this was the end, I just kept thinking,

this was the end, I just kept thinking, please let me see her face one more

please let me see her face one more time."

time." And

And you know after that he did get a bit

you know after that he did get a bit better but then

better but then um well in that first admission

um well in that first admission eventually I said to him you know you've

eventually I said to him you know you've got to start sitting out well the doctor

got to start sitting out well the doctor said you've got to sit out of bed and

said you've got to sit out of bed and the therapist had come around he said I

the therapist had come around he said I don't want therapy I've got you. So like

don't want therapy I've got you. So like I took the therapy the reflexology lady

I took the therapy the reflexology lady came around he pretended he was asleep

came around he pretended he was asleep and eventually I said darling you've got

and eventually I said darling you've got to play the game. I cannot do this by

to play the game. I cannot do this by myself and you and you can't just keep

myself and you and you can't just keep lying in bed. You've got to sit up. So,

lying in bed. You've got to sit up. So, he got helped into the chair and that

he got helped into the chair and that day when I went to say goodbye to him, I

day when I went to say goodbye to him, I hugged him like face to face. And I

hugged him like face to face. And I didn't quite realize that the whole time

didn't quite realize that the whole time I'd been kissing him from the side of

I'd been kissing him from the side of the bed cuz he'd been in bed. And when

the bed cuz he'd been in bed. And when we hugged face to face, I just burst

we hugged face to face, I just burst into tears. And I had never shown him

into tears. And I had never shown him anything but a smiling face the whole

anything but a smiling face the whole time. and I left and I just got this

time. and I left and I just got this barrage of text messages saying, "I'm

barrage of text messages saying, "I'm not spending one more night away from

not spending one more night away from you. I'm wasting away in this hospital

you. I'm wasting away in this hospital when I could be with you. When you come

when I could be with you. When you come in tomorrow, we're going to tell the

in tomorrow, we're going to tell the doctors that I'm leaving."

doctors that I'm leaving." So, I thought, "Okay." Came in the next

So, I thought, "Okay." Came in the next day. It's ward round. And I was pretty

day. It's ward round. And I was pretty much like part of the ward. Like the

much like part of the ward. Like the consultant would say everything and then

consultant would say everything and then say, "Is that okay, Tara?" kind of

say, "Is that okay, Tara?" kind of thing. And he said, "I want to leave.

thing. And he said, "I want to leave. I'm leaving today. I want to be at home

I'm leaving today. I want to be at home with my wife tonight. And she was very

with my wife tonight. And she was very clever. She looked at me and said, "What

clever. She looked at me and said, "What do you think, Tara?" Because she knew

do you think, Tara?" Because she knew I'd never put him in danger. But also,

I'd never put him in danger. But also, I'm standing in front of the man that I

I'm standing in front of the man that I love,

love, and I'm either going to tell him that I

and I'm either going to tell him that I don't trust him. I don't trust his

don't trust him. I don't trust his decision-m,

decision-m, the person who always always had my

the person who always always had my back, or I'm going to have to show him

back, or I'm going to have to show him that I have his back just like he always

that I have his back just like he always had mine. And I said to her, I

had mine. And I said to her, I understand why you wouldn't be in favor

understand why you wouldn't be in favor of this, but I think I can manage it.

of this, but I think I can manage it. And within two days, he was discharged

And within two days, he was discharged from hospital.

from hospital. Um,

Um, yeah, off IVs,

yeah, off IVs, um, on still on oxygen. We still had to

um, on still on oxygen. We still had to go in to have like the bone marrow tests

go in to have like the bone marrow tests and get blood transfusions and platelets

and get blood transfusions and platelets and things, but he slowly started to

and things, but he slowly started to recover. He it was a slow recovery. So

recover. He it was a slow recovery. So normally within a week you would get the

normally within a week you would get the second round of treatment. He wasn't

second round of treatment. He wasn't strong enough for that. But um we got to

strong enough for that. But um we got to the point where she actually said that

the point where she actually said that we could go to Hampshire and then he

we could go to Hampshire and then he stopped using the walking stick. He

stopped using the walking stick. He stopped using the oxygen. We came back

stopped using the oxygen. We came back to London for the second round of

to London for the second round of treatment. She said I I could not have

treatment. She said I I could not have imagined you would bring him back in as

imagined you would bring him back in as good a state as he's in.

good a state as he's in. But the second round of treatment was

But the second round of treatment was totally brutal and it didn't work.

totally brutal and it didn't work. Um, so he was in hospital again for a

Um, so he was in hospital again for a few weeks and then like I said on

few weeks and then like I said on October 4th I took him home.

October 4th I took him home. Even then the female consultant said to

Even then the female consultant said to me, "The last time you took him to

me, "The last time you took him to Hampshire, he got so much better. If

Hampshire, he got so much better. If anything changes, bring him back to

anything changes, bring him back to London." And the male consultant gave me

London." And the male consultant gave me two syringes of bone marrow stimulating

two syringes of bone marrow stimulating um drugs and said, "You cannot use this

um drugs and said, "You cannot use this without our permission, but if anything

without our permission, but if anything changes, inject him with this and bring

changes, inject him with this and bring him back to London." So, I still had

him back to London." So, I still had like a glimmer of hope, which I

like a glimmer of hope, which I shouldn't really have had. Um,

shouldn't really have had. Um, and like I said, he he lived for three

and like I said, he he lived for three and a half weeks instead of two.

and a half weeks instead of two. Um

yeah, and like right towards the end cuz he was in a hospital bed on an air

he was in a hospital bed on an air mattress,

mattress, he said like maybe you could like come

he said like maybe you could like come and lie on the bed with me. And I mean

and lie on the bed with me. And I mean he couldn't move. He couldn't raise a

he couldn't move. He couldn't raise a glass of water to his lips or anything,

glass of water to his lips or anything, but he somehow like moved his arm cuz I

but he somehow like moved his arm cuz I always used to sleep like on his chest.

always used to sleep like on his chest. Um,

Um, and then after a few seconds he said,

and then after a few seconds he said, "I'm just really claustrophobic." And

"I'm just really claustrophobic." And you know, I'd like had to put the rails

you know, I'd like had to put the rails up to stay in the bed because it was so

up to stay in the bed because it was so small. I was going to fall out. And I

small. I was going to fall out. And I said, "It's okay, darling." And I think

said, "It's okay, darling." And I think that I think that was his way of saying

that I think that was his way of saying goodbye to me cuz he died 2 days after

goodbye to me cuz he died 2 days after that.

>> What's on your mind? >> Um,

Um, I don't want him to get forgotten.

But I I also know because we've had this conversation that

conversation that there's something

there's something there's something there's there's still

there's something there's there's still like

like something that I have to do in this life

something that I have to do in this life which was the reason that I had to stay.

So yeah, I I think there's like a purpose

yeah, I I think there's like a purpose to fulfill that that Robin wants me to.

to fulfill that that Robin wants me to. So that that's what I'm going to do.

So that that's what I'm going to do. >> How do you think about falling in love

>> How do you think about falling in love again? because I have played out the

again? because I have played out the horrific thought myself in my own life

horrific thought myself in my own life of losing my partner and and how

of losing my partner and and how difficult it would it appears to be from

difficult it would it appears to be from this vantage point to fall in love again

this vantage point to fall in love again and meet people and to to think about

and meet people and to to think about those things again like how how do you

those things again like how how do you think about that?

think about that? >> Um so I actually

>> Um so I actually experienced unconditional love which I

experienced unconditional love which I didn't believe in. So the first time

didn't believe in. So the first time Robin said to me, "I love you

Robin said to me, "I love you unconditionally,"

unconditionally," because I had some baggage from a

because I had some baggage from a previous relationship. I said, "Don't

previous relationship. I said, "Don't say that because I don't think that

say that because I don't think that exists."

exists." And he never said it again,

And he never said it again, but every day for the rest of his life,

but every day for the rest of his life, he showed me that it was true. So at

he showed me that it was true. So at some point, I just knew it was true. I

some point, I just knew it was true. I would say, you know, obviously people

would say, you know, obviously people say things like, "He would want you to

say things like, "He would want you to be happy." And you know, I was still

be happy." And you know, I was still wearing my wedding rings for over two

wearing my wedding rings for over two years. And you know, even some of his

years. And you know, even some of his friends said, "You don't need to wear

friends said, "You don't need to wear them anymore." But I said, "I want to."

them anymore." But I said, "I want to." And I wore them for as you know, as long

And I wore them for as you know, as long as I still needed to. I

I'm open to receiving love, but I'm not going to go look for it. Let's put it

going to go look for it. Let's put it that way.

that way. >> Why?

>> Why? Um,

I don't know. I mean, it's not really my style anyway,

style anyway, but I think I've been so lucky with what

but I think I've been so lucky with what I've had that I don't I don't

I've had that I don't I don't I'd be okay if I didn't like have

I'd be okay if I didn't like have something like that again. Obviously,

something like that again. Obviously, I'm too young to like not want to have

I'm too young to like not want to have that again, but I'm I also feel quite

that again, but I'm I also feel quite vulnerable. So, I'll just like see how

vulnerable. So, I'll just like see how things go.

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And if I told you I'd been through what you've been through, and I asked you the

you've been through, and I asked you the question, should I go and look for love

question, should I go and look for love again? What advice would you give to me

again? What advice would you give to me if I'd lost my partner and I was what,

if I'd lost my partner and I was what, four years now?

four years now? >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> Away from that.

>> Away from that. >> Nearly.

>> Nearly. >> Yeah. What what advice would you give me

>> Yeah. What what advice would you give me about love?

about love? >> I think it's very personal. I think, you

>> I think it's very personal. I think, you know, if you want to be in a

know, if you want to be in a relationship, that's absolutely fine.

relationship, that's absolutely fine. Um, if you're not sure, that's fine,

Um, if you're not sure, that's fine, too. I think there's different levels of

too. I think there's different levels of how long it would take people. I do know

how long it would take people. I do know that when you know the majority of

that when you know the majority of voices were around around me were sort

voices were around around me were sort of saying like it's okay for you to do

of saying like it's okay for you to do that again that one of my friends who's

that again that one of my friends who's engaged to someone who was a widowerower

engaged to someone who was a widowerower he said to me at the time I'm telling

he said to me at the time I'm telling you right now 2 years is not it's not

you right now 2 years is not it's not long enough and that felt like a relief

long enough and that felt like a relief um so obviously it's almost another two

um so obviously it's almost another two years now I you know I think I believe

years now I you know I think I believe that if love is meant for meant for me

that if love is meant for meant for me then it will come to me so I'm I'm not

then it will come to me so I'm I'm not I'm I'm just calm about it.

I'm I'm just calm about it. >> How are you different? Like what are the

>> How are you different? Like what are the very material or like very obvious ways

very material or like very obvious ways that you're a different person on the

that you're a different person on the other side of this?

other side of this? >> Um what would your friends say if I said

>> Um what would your friends say if I said how is Tara different?

how is Tara different? >> Well, I think they would say that I'm a

>> Well, I think they would say that I'm a lot more like fragile and vulnerable cuz

lot more like fragile and vulnerable cuz cuz they're like very very protective of

cuz they're like very very protective of me still. Um,

me still. Um, I know they would I know what they would

I know they would I know what they would say cuz some of them have said it and I

say cuz some of them have said it and I didn't really like to hear this at

didn't really like to hear this at first, but they said you're going to be

first, but they said you're going to be able to help so many people. You know,

able to help so many people. You know, the first time someone said that I was

the first time someone said that I was like, I've been a doctor. I've been a

like, I've been a doctor. I've been a coach. I, you know, my whole like

coach. I, you know, my whole like personality is about helping people. I

personality is about helping people. I didn't need my husband to suffer

didn't need my husband to suffer horrifically and die so that I can help

horrifically and die so that I can help people. But now I do actually feel that

people. But now I do actually feel that I can and I want to. And what do you

I can and I want to. And what do you want to help them with? And who do you

want to help them with? And who do you want to help? People that are grieving.

want to help? People that are grieving. >> Not just people that are grieving. I

>> Not just people that are grieving. I think, you know, people are are

think, you know, people are are struggling and suffering in different

struggling and suffering in different ways. And people really really want to

ways. And people really really want to feel seen. And I think that's like an

feel seen. And I think that's like an important

important place where I would love to do

place where I would love to do something. I think I've got more and

something. I think I've got more and more curious about the idea that I might

more curious about the idea that I might be wrong about subjective reality and

be wrong about subjective reality and how I see things. And so I wondered if

how I see things. And so I wondered if if there's a clearer definition of the

if there's a clearer definition of the subjective reality that you see like do

subjective reality that you see like do you think we are these spirits that

you think we are these spirits that inhabit our and then like why is there

inhabit our and then like why is there is there reason why

is there reason why I've come into this body? Is there some

I've come into this body? Is there some bigger karmic purpose as to why I've I I

bigger karmic purpose as to why I've I I live? This ultimate question of like

live? This ultimate question of like what is the meaning of life in the world

what is the meaning of life in the world view that you have like what is the

view that you have like what is the point?

point? What is the point? Why did I need to

What is the point? Why did I need to live?

live? >> I don't know if I can answer that, but

>> I don't know if I can answer that, but I'm going to I'm just going to say like

I'm going to I'm just going to say like what's coming to my mind,

what's coming to my mind, >> which is

>> which is so like you and I might never have met

so like you and I might never have met in our lives, right?

in our lives, right? >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. And for some reason, we did. And

And for some reason, we did. And we had never met before I did the

we had never met before I did the podcast with you last time,

podcast with you last time, but people cannot stop talking about

but people cannot stop talking about like the level of chemistry as if we'd

like the level of chemistry as if we'd known each other our whole lives. And

known each other our whole lives. And I've always said I felt like I was

I've always said I felt like I was talking to my little brother.

talking to my little brother. And then that episode goes on to have

And then that episode goes on to have like the number of views that it does.

like the number of views that it does. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> I don't believe that that's random or a

>> I don't believe that that's random or a coincidence. I think and there's a

coincidence. I think and there's a reason for that. And for me,

reason for that. And for me, in a way, you were the worst person for

in a way, you were the worst person for me to come and do and tell this story to

me to come and do and tell this story to for the first time because you were the

for the first time because you were the most skeptical person of all the podcast

most skeptical person of all the podcast hosts that I can think of that I'm going

hosts that I can think of that I'm going to go on.

to go on. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> So,

>> So, there's obviously some importance to

there's obviously some importance to that. I can't explain it. I'm I'm not I

that. I can't explain it. I'm I'm not I didn't come here with all the answers.

didn't come here with all the answers. I'm just

I'm just lucky enough to be someone with credible

lucky enough to be someone with credible qualifications that's had a, you know,

qualifications that's had a, you know, an experience that most people don't

an experience that most people don't talk about that I can open up for people

talk about that I can open up for people that that's I would say like

that that's I would say like all that it is. But I want to add

all that it is. But I want to add something else that I'm feeling is

something else that I'm feeling is relevant as well, which is because of my

relevant as well, which is because of my friendship group and the kind of

friendship group and the kind of conversations that we have, I wasn't

conversations that we have, I wasn't allowed by my publisher to include

allowed by my publisher to include personal stories from my friends. I had

personal stories from my friends. I had to source stories from people I had

to source stories from people I had either never met or only met once or

either never met or only met once or were friends of friends. So every

were friends of friends. So every personal story that you read in the

personal story that you read in the signs which has the person's real name

signs which has the person's real name and it is written by them and gifted to

and it is written by them and gifted to me for this book are people that I don't

me for this book are people that I don't know and

know and they're all saying the same thing. They

they're all saying the same thing. They see, you know, light disturbances when

see, you know, light disturbances when they think of their lost loved one or

they think of their lost loved one or they get unmistakable signs or robins

they get unmistakable signs or robins visit them. Um

visit them. Um yeah, I haven't made that stuff up. Like

yeah, I haven't made that stuff up. Like there's something to it. I I don't know

there's something to it. I I don't know exactly what it is. I I hope I find out

exactly what it is. I I hope I find out before I die, but maybe I'll only find

before I die, but maybe I'll only find out after I die. I don't know.

out after I die. I don't know. >> And is there any meaning to all this

>> And is there any meaning to all this stuff? It's kind of going back to the

stuff? It's kind of going back to the question I asked second ago because you

question I asked second ago because you said you think we met for a reason.

said you think we met for a reason. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> And one could hazard any number of

>> And one could hazard any number of reasons as to why that was. Maybe it was

reasons as to why that was. Maybe it was because you're going to go on to help so

because you're going to go on to help so many people and reach so many people

many people and reach so many people with an important message, whatever. But

with an important message, whatever. But I don't know. This is my curiosity

I don't know. This is my curiosity trying to reach a conclusion which is

trying to reach a conclusion which is for what? For why? Like why are humans

for what? For why? Like why are humans here? Why why doesn't my dog Pablo have

here? Why why doesn't my dog Pablo have or does he have the same capabilities of

or does he have the same capabilities of seeing signs and communicating with

seeing signs and communicating with >> Oh, he's got more capabilities than you

>> Oh, he's got more capabilities than you in many respects.

in many respects. >> I mean, you talk about that in the book,

>> I mean, you talk about that in the book, right? You talk about pets and animals.

right? You talk about pets and animals. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Okay, let me talk about that a little

>> Okay, let me talk about that a little bit. So, dogs and cats can smell certain

bit. So, dogs and cats can smell certain diseases and um they can smell imminent

diseases and um they can smell imminent death. So there's something called

death. So there's something called hyperosmia which is um in humans it's

hyperosmia which is um in humans it's the ability to smell more than the

the ability to smell more than the normal range. So there's a very famous

normal range. So there's a very famous nurse called Joy I think it's Milner who

nurse called Joy I think it's Milner who smelt her husband's Parkinson's disease

smelt her husband's Parkinson's disease years before he was diagnosed and her

years before he was diagnosed and her ability to smell that disease has caused

ability to smell that disease has caused a new swab test to be created that takes

a new swab test to be created that takes chemicals from the skin of people to

chemicals from the skin of people to predict if they're going to get

predict if they're going to get Parkinson's disease.

Parkinson's disease. So there are some outliers in humans

So there are some outliers in humans that have you know they're called super

that have you know they're called super smellers for example like we're not all

smellers for example like we're not all capable of that but some people are

capable of that but some people are blind people

blind people rewire the visual cortex of the brain in

rewire the visual cortex of the brain in the occipital loes here for

the occipital loes here for echolocation.

echolocation. Humans aren't built for echolocation.

Humans aren't built for echolocation. Bats and dolphins are. But people who

Bats and dolphins are. But people who are blind can use up the unused c visual

are blind can use up the unused c visual cortex to um learn how to recognize

cortex to um learn how to recognize how close objects are to them by how

how close objects are to them by how long it takes sound to bounce back from

long it takes sound to bounce back from surfaces.

surfaces. So basically animals have senses that we

So basically animals have senses that we don't have. Some very rare people can

don't have. Some very rare people can have some of those senses that animals

have some of those senses that animals have that most humans don't. We're also

have that most humans don't. We're also capable of rewiring some of our um

capable of rewiring some of our um neurons for senses that replace ones

neurons for senses that replace ones that we don't have. And I'm just going

that we don't have. And I'm just going to bring us full circle, you know, kind

to bring us full circle, you know, kind of where we started with can you suspend

of where we started with can you suspend your disbelief by understanding that

your disbelief by understanding that there are lots of things that we can't

there are lots of things that we can't prove at the moment, but you know, we

prove at the moment, but you know, we sort of sciences science is to on the

sort of sciences science is to on the quest to push boundaries, which is that

quest to push boundaries, which is that Russell Foster suggested that not that

Russell Foster suggested that not that the only cells on our retinas are not

the only cells on our retinas are not just rods and cones, which are for

just rods and cones, which are for vision, but there's a different type of

vision, but there's a different type of cell that senses the passing of time

cell that senses the passing of time through the light dark cycle and you

through the light dark cycle and you know that's how we create our circadian

know that's how we create our circadian rhythms. He was ridiculed by scientists

rhythms. He was ridiculed by scientists who said we've been studying the eye for

who said we've been studying the eye for 150 years and you think there's a new

150 years and you think there's a new type of cell that we've missed out in

type of cell that we've missed out in all that time and you found it. And sure

all that time and you found it. And sure enough, now there are identified cells

enough, now there are identified cells called melanopsin cells which blind um

called melanopsin cells which blind um rodents

rodents can still keep to the circadian rhythm

can still keep to the circadian rhythm because they can sense the changing

because they can sense the changing light and dark cycle. But if you put

light and dark cycle. But if you put opaque contact lenses on them, they

opaque contact lenses on them, they drift off the circadian rhythm.

drift off the circadian rhythm. So,

So, I I'm not going to be able to give you

I I'm not going to be able to give you an answer at the end of this podcast,

an answer at the end of this podcast, but maybe that's the beauty of

but maybe that's the beauty of everything that we're not at the end of

everything that we're not at the end of knowing everything that we need to know,

knowing everything that we need to know, but there's a lot of really interesting

but there's a lot of really interesting big question marks.

>> Do you think we'll ever figure out these answers? Do you think science will ever

answers? Do you think science will ever get there? Do you think there'll come a

get there? Do you think there'll come a day when we make discoveries that prove

day when we make discoveries that prove that many of the things that you write

that many of the things that you write about in the science

about in the science >> are in fact true

>> are in fact true like scientifically justifiable

like scientifically justifiable repeatable?

repeatable? >> Yeah, I think so. But I don't think

>> Yeah, I think so. But I don't think we'll be here at that point. I'm always

we'll be here at that point. I'm always just fascinated because you know so much

just fascinated because you know so much about neuroscience and the connection of

about neuroscience and the connection of not just neuroscience but spirituality

not just neuroscience but spirituality and um and then also human psychology in

and um and then also human psychology in general. The thing I'm also fascinated

general. The thing I'm also fascinated about with you is that you're able to

about with you is that you're able to tell me things that I didn't know like

tell me things that I didn't know like you said to me last time about looking

you said to me last time about looking into someone's left eye and the fact

into someone's left eye and the fact that sweat leaks through the skin and

that sweat leaks through the skin and that menstrual cycle sync up and these

that menstrual cycle sync up and these are all things that are like really

are all things that are like really actionable that have helped me to look

actionable that have helped me to look at life differently. But also now I

at life differently. But also now I don't think I've looked in someone's

don't think I've looked in someone's right eye in the last two years,

right eye in the last two years, especially when they're like annoyed or

especially when they're like annoyed or something. So is there anything else

something. So is there anything else like that that you've become curious

like that that you've become curious about or discovered or talked about

about or discovered or talked about since we last saw each other? That might

since we last saw each other? That might be pert

be pert >> um I think we've discussed it which is

>> um I think we've discussed it which is like noticing beauty. That's been a real

like noticing beauty. That's been a real game changer for me. That's like

game changer for me. That's like gratitude to the next level

gratitude to the next level >> and that's an active practice of going

>> and that's an active practice of going through life looking for something

through life looking for something beautiful.

beautiful. >> Well, it was but then it becomes a

>> Well, it was but then it becomes a habit.

habit. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, and it's producing

>> Yeah. Okay. Um, and it's producing oxytocin just like gratitude practice

oxytocin just like gratitude practice does. So obviously it's kind of

does. So obviously it's kind of self-rewarding.

self-rewarding. >> So then you naturally want to do it more

>> So then you naturally want to do it more and more. But I notice I point it out to

and more. But I notice I point it out to people more as well now, which is that

people more as well now, which is that I'm obviously trying to like create a

I'm obviously trying to like create a bit of a like crowd effect. Um, not

bit of a like crowd effect. Um, not consciously, but I just can't help

consciously, but I just can't help myself. Like if I see something really

myself. Like if I see something really pretty, then I'll say, "Oh, like you

pretty, then I'll say, "Oh, like you know, did you see that?" Um,

know, did you see that?" Um, >> certain people do that often and they do

>> certain people do that often and they do seem to be the happiest people. My

seem to be the happiest people. My girlfriend does that all the time. She

girlfriend does that all the time. She she'll like like stop the car because

she'll like like stop the car because there's a flower that we need to go

there's a flower that we need to go spend 45 seconds looking at across the

spend 45 seconds looking at across the other side of the road.

other side of the road. >> And to a lot of people it's just a

>> And to a lot of people it's just a flower and we've kind of almost become

flower and we've kind of almost become used to seeing flowers.

used to seeing flowers. >> Well, that's habituation.

>> Well, that's habituation. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So even if you walk past like an amazing

>> So even if you walk past like an amazing tree or an amazing building every day,

tree or an amazing building every day, eventually you'll you'll just not notice

eventually you'll you'll just not notice it cuz you're habituated to it. So

it cuz you're habituated to it. So saliency is, you know, keeping yourself

saliency is, you know, keeping yourself primed like what I call the art of

primed like what I call the art of noticing. Mhm. And where are you right

noticing. Mhm. And where are you right now in terms of your journey of grief?

now in terms of your journey of grief? I

I >> mean much better is the first thing I

>> mean much better is the first thing I need to say cuz obviously it's been a

need to say cuz obviously it's been a long and dark time.

long and dark time. >> Um

I know that I know I'm not there yet because there is a

I'm not there yet because there is a part of me that is

like afraid to let my light really shine.

shine. >> Explain that. I think I sort of touched

>> Explain that. I think I sort of touched on it before that if I I feel like if I,

on it before that if I I feel like if I, you know, if I like throw myself back

you know, if I like throw myself back into my career now because I've had

into my career now because I've had quite a few years out

quite a few years out and it becomes really successful that

and it becomes really successful that there's a level of guilt associated with

there's a level of guilt associated with that. But,

that. But, you know, at least I'm aware of that.

you know, at least I'm aware of that. Um, I've had a few conversations with

Um, I've had a few conversations with close friends about it. I have quite a

close friends about it. I have quite a timeline ahead of me because of book

timeline ahead of me because of book publication and book promo and then

publication and book promo and then like, you know, next things that we

like, you know, next things that we might do. Um, so I think I just need to

might do. Um, so I think I just need to like keep working on that as things

like keep working on that as things unfold. Um,

unfold. Um, I know it's wrong, but it's how I feel

I know it's wrong, but it's how I feel at the moment.

at the moment. >> We we meet up again in 10 years time.

>> We we meet up again in 10 years time. Obviously, we're going to see each other

Obviously, we're going to see each other before then, but say we we get together

before then, but say we we get together in 10 years time, and this next season

in 10 years time, and this next season of your life has been a great success.

of your life has been a great success. What happened?

What happened? >> Wow. Um,

>> Wow. Um, I got over myself and like put myself

I got over myself and like put myself out there and like really shone and it

out there and like really shone and it actually did really help loads of

actually did really help loads of people. Um,

people. Um, >> look at the smile on your face as you

>> look at the smile on your face as you say that.

say that. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I really want to say thank you to you as

I really want to say thank you to you as well for everything.

well for everything. >> The feeling is mutual.

>> The feeling is mutual. >> You know, it really is. you you were

>> You know, it really is. you you were transformative for for this show and um

transformative for for this show and um everywhere I go still today people come

everywhere I go still today people come up to me and tell me about how that

up to me and tell me about how that conversation helped them it inspired

conversation helped them it inspired them in some way but also helped them

them in some way but also helped them understand as you said earlier in this

understand as you said earlier in this conversation that all that we know isn't

conversation that all that we know isn't all that there is to know

all that there is to know >> and just that you know I've tried to

>> and just that you know I've tried to play a bit of a skeptic throughout this

play a bit of a skeptic throughout this conversation I am naturally skeptical

conversation I am naturally skeptical but the other thing that's that from

but the other thing that's that from being a podcaster the other thing that

being a podcaster the other thing that happens to you is you become more

happens to you is you become more open-minded it's almost this paradox of

open-minded it's almost this paradox of you think you're going to learn more.

you think you're going to learn more. But actually through the through the

But actually through the through the conversations I've had, I've realized

conversations I've had, I've realized that there's so much that I don't know.

that there's so much that I don't know. And actually that's forced me more into

And actually that's forced me more into an agnostic position than I was before.

an agnostic position than I was before. And what I mean by that is it's forced

And what I mean by that is it's forced me into a state where I can't fall into

me into a state where I can't fall into the trap of thinking I know things.

the trap of thinking I know things. >> Yeah. So this is also why I I find it

>> Yeah. So this is also why I I find it hard to commit to any belief like a

hard to commit to any belief like a religious belief or atheism because

religious belief or atheism because there's I continually sit here over and

there's I continually sit here over and over again and someone will say

over again and someone will say something to me and I'll be skeptical

something to me and I'll be skeptical and then I'll reflect and then I'll look

and then I'll reflect and then I'll look at the research or the science or

at the research or the science or whatever and I'll change my mind and if

whatever and I'll change my mind and if you change your mind that many times you

you change your mind that many times you realize that um your mind should

realize that um your mind should probably not be fixed to any position.

probably not be fixed to any position. >> I love that. I'm so proud of you for

>> I love that. I'm so proud of you for hearing that. That's like an incredible

hearing that. That's like an incredible thing for people to hear. But it's true

thing for people to hear. But it's true and I hope that of my audience, you

and I hope that of my audience, you know, I was sat with my team a while ago

know, I was sat with my team a while ago and I was saying, do you know what DOAC

and I was saying, do you know what DOAC stands for? It stands for diversity. I

stands for? It stands for diversity. I get it. But it also stands for people

get it. But it also stands for people that have that are dreamers that are

that have that are dreamers that are open-minded, which is the O that are in

open-minded, which is the O that are in search of increasing their awareness,

search of increasing their awareness, and that could be in any definition that

and that could be in any definition that you want to describe it, whether it's

you want to describe it, whether it's awareness of health, psychology, who

awareness of health, psychology, who they are. And the C is about connection.

they are. And the C is about connection. So that's really like hearing your

So that's really like hearing your stories makes me feel like

stories makes me feel like >> me too. M

>> me too. M >> I feel that too. I'm struggling in that

>> I feel that too. I'm struggling in that way too. So that's the framework that I

way too. So that's the framework that I think about the show and that's the also

think about the show and that's the also why

why >> I try and remain open-minded to all

>> I try and remain open-minded to all things that I hear. Um and let people

things that I hear. Um and let people speak.

speak. >> I've never actually said that before,

>> I've never actually said that before, but there it is, guys. Um and I and

but there it is, guys. Um and I and that's why I'm I'm so compelled by this

that's why I'm I'm so compelled by this conversation today. Of course, like I'm

conversation today. Of course, like I'm skeptical. Like I think skepticism is

skeptical. Like I think skepticism is healthy.

healthy. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um but I'm also open-minded and that

>> Um but I'm also open-minded and that means that I'm willing to take what

means that I'm willing to take what you've said to me today and to

you've said to me today and to investigate it and run the experiments

investigate it and run the experiments in my own life.

in my own life. And if I am open-minded, maybe I'll

And if I am open-minded, maybe I'll receive some evidence for myself.

receive some evidence for myself. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, thank you. Thank you for doing what

>> So, thank you. Thank you for doing what you're doing. And also,

you're doing. And also, >> you know, as you said earlier, it's much

>> you know, as you said earlier, it's much easier and safer in life just to sit in

easier and safer in life just to sit in a box of the known. Like, you're not

a box of the known. Like, you're not going to get any arrows.

going to get any arrows. >> Yeah. But it's when people through

>> Yeah. But it's when people through history have dared to say that maybe the

history have dared to say that maybe the earth revolves around the sun or that

earth revolves around the sun or that maybe the earth isn't flat. They've

maybe the earth isn't flat. They've taken the arrows, but that's pushed us

taken the arrows, but that's pushed us forward as a society into a better way

forward as a society into a better way of being. So I always applaud the

of being. So I always applaud the the the guts to ask questions,

the the guts to ask questions, you know. So I hope that's the audience

you know. So I hope that's the audience that I've cultivated. But I hope they're

that I've cultivated. But I hope they're not too narrow narrow-minded or too

not too narrow narrow-minded or too fixed, but I'm sure they will debate and

fixed, but I'm sure they will debate and share their anecdotes in the comment

share their anecdotes in the comment section. I'm actually really looking to

section. I'm actually really looking to to I'm really looking forward to reading

to I'm really looking forward to reading the comment section.

the comment section. >> I know

>> I know >> on this particular conversation cuz I

>> on this particular conversation cuz I know what it's it's going to be full of

know what it's it's going to be full of stories and anecdotes and experiences

stories and anecdotes and experiences which I think is going to be really

which I think is going to be really enriching. But

enriching. But >> I do ask everybody in the comment

>> I do ask everybody in the comment section to be um open-minded and

section to be um open-minded and empathetic and kind

empathetic and kind >> um actively which means replying to

>> um actively which means replying to people and being kind because you know

people and being kind because you know grief no matter what your opinion is on

grief no matter what your opinion is on it is um is a very delicate thing and uh

it is um is a very delicate thing and uh we're all trying to find ways to be more

we're all trying to find ways to be more happier and more connected and uh to

happier and more connected and uh to deal with the reality of of our

deal with the reality of of our experience. is we have a closing

experience. is we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last

tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next

guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it

guest not knowing who they're leaving it for.

for. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> And the question left for you

>> And the question left for you is

is what is the best thing that someone has

what is the best thing that someone has done for you?

done for you? >> Oh god. Are you sure you don't make

>> Oh god. Are you sure you don't make these things up?

these things up? >> No, it's what it says here. If anyone

>> No, it's what it says here. If anyone wants to read it, it's what it says in

wants to read it, it's what it says in the book.

the book. It It's got to be Robin showing me that

It It's got to be Robin showing me that unconditional love really does exist.

>> Tara, thank you. Your new book, The Science, Beautiful book, by the way.

Science, Beautiful book, by the way. >> Thank you.

>> Thank you. >> Beautiful book, The New Science of How

>> Beautiful book, The New Science of How to Trust Your Instincts, will be out in

to Trust Your Instincts, will be out in September. So, if you're listening to

September. So, if you're listening to this in September, then it's out, and

this in September, then it's out, and I'll link it below for anyone that wants

I'll link it below for anyone that wants to have a read of this book. Um the the

to have a read of this book. Um the the really truly unique thing about you is

really truly unique thing about you is that you blend all of these different

that you blend all of these different perspectives into your your own

perspectives into your your own perspective and your own writing and

perspective and your own writing and your own research. And so

your own research. And so in reading this book, it pulls everybody

in reading this book, it pulls everybody in. It pulls in, I think, the skeptics.

in. It pulls in, I think, the skeptics. It pulls in the believers and it pulls

It pulls in the believers and it pulls them all into the same room to confront

them all into the same room to confront a new possible answer to the nature of

a new possible answer to the nature of reality that might just serve to help so

reality that might just serve to help so many of us. So, I highly recommend

many of us. So, I highly recommend everybody gives it a read because if

everybody gives it a read because if you're someone that likes to expand your

you're someone that likes to expand your mind and think beyond the known, then

mind and think beyond the known, then this is this is the book and this is the

this is this is the book and this is the moment in time because of all the

moment in time because of all the reasons you've said about loneliness and

reasons you've said about loneliness and individualism and all these things that

individualism and all these things that people need to read books like this. So,

people need to read books like this. So, I highly I'm so excited for it to be in

I highly I'm so excited for it to be in the world and I'm so excited to hear

the world and I'm so excited to hear what everybody um everybody thinks and

what everybody um everybody thinks and how they receive it. So thank you for

how they receive it. So thank you for writing such a wonderful book and thank

writing such a wonderful book and thank you for coming back and thank you again

you for coming back and thank you again for many years ago now blessing our show

for many years ago now blessing our show in a profound way that pulled in a huge

in a profound way that pulled in a huge new audience which is set us on a on an

new audience which is set us on a on an incredible journey. So yeah, thank you

incredible journey. So yeah, thank you Tara.

Tara. >> Yes, thank you.

>> Yes, thank you. >> This has always blown my mind a little

>> This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to the show

bit. 53% of you that listen to the show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the

regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So could I ask you for a favor? If

show. So could I ask you for a favor? If you like the show and you like what we

you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us, the

do here and you want to support us, the free simple way that you can do just

free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button.

that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do

And my commitment to you is if you do that, then I'll do everything in my

that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that

power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single

this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback.

week. We'll listen to your feedback. We'll find the guests that you want me

We'll find the guests that you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do

to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. Make sure

what we do. Thank you so much. Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to

you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to

yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a

come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is

CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm

a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many

launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you

incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that

are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the

are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never

conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes

released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guest and also

conversations with the guest and also the episodes that we've never ever

the episodes that we've never ever released and so much more. In the

released and so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me.

circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show

You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and

to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would

the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now,

love us to have. But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000

we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So,

people that join before it closes. So, if you want to join our private closed

if you want to join our private closed community, head to the link in the

community, head to the link in the description below or go to

description below or go to daccircle.com.

I will speak to you there. [Music]

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YouTube Transcript:Neuroscientist (Dr. Tara Swart): Evidence We Can Communicate After Death!

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Neuroscientist (Dr. Tara Swart): Evidence We Can Communicate After Death!