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The Art of Living a Courageous Life - Matthew McConaughey (4K)

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This content is a wide-ranging conversation exploring themes of personal growth, belief, masculinity, and the pursuit of a meaningful life, framed by a milestone podcast episode.

So, I mentioned to you that this is

episode 1,000. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> It's been 7 and a half years. Uh, we

just crossed a billion views the other

day as well.

>> Congrats, man.

>> And as a little surprise to you, we

wanted to take you back to an

environment that you probably know at

least a little bit well. Ah,

Ah,

Cooper's Place, Alberta, Canada, where

we shot it. We planted production

planted all those corn fields too.

They're as far as yeah I could see.

And this is the road Cooper drives up on

the way out. And that's that Han Zimmer

countdown. 10 9 8 Leaving children to

follow dream liftoff.

liftoff.

>> I love how quick that is. That

transition from from leaving to going. I

think that's so cool. Yeah, I think it

was, you know, Chris's version of tying

the human

drama. What would you do? A father

leaving children to go do what they know

they were meant to do. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> And leave this earth and then from there

on time changes. And yeah, at the end of this

this

shoot, when

it was wrapped and it was clear, we had

no more shots, no more scenes on this location,

location,

my family and I were in my Airstream on

the set is where we lived. We got uh um

at the edge of base camp, we turned our

Airstream to face out to the mountains

and right behind us is your medical and

your food, whatever you need from

production. But we stayed extra few days

and just hiked it and stuff. And one of

the things that was fun is I let my son

probably I don't know what believe I was

seven, eight at the time.

>> We got in my truck and I let him

drive through these corn fields as fast

as he wanted.

And he was going 360 all around cuz I

had checked. I was like they go, "No,

it's it's for as far as you can see.

It's just like the salt flats. Hit it."

And I've got some video of that and some

pictures. It was top. Yeah.

>> I think Mark Twain said that first,

didn't he? A version of that. History rhymes.

rhymes. Um

seems for as much as we go,

our generation's so different than the

last one. And there's never been

anything like this. The es and the

flows, the debits and the assets. And

for every new technology and old there's

a debit in an old culture and uh

it seems like it always is right there somewhat

somewhat

equalized and balanced. And then there's

a rhyme in that that sort of ecclesiastical.

ecclesiastical.

You know, there's a time for everything

and for every you reap that will you

sow. There's a time to kill. There's a

time to live. There's a time to plant.

There's a time to gather. There's a time

to spread. It's very immersonian too,

too,

you know. And uh for every new

technology we lose an old culture, you

know, and these these things that we

think are contradictory, heaven and

hell, hate and love that we think are

like this an imbalance for the truth of

them, I think, is in that third eye

where they overlap. And they all do

overlap. They all sort of balance

themselves out. And I don't know how

much new under the sun we actually are

doing. I think we call it different

names. Think we change the labels. I

think you get some things that are extra

strength and some things that are unled.

>> But I think they all pretty much balance

pretty much balance out and there's

rhyme and balance.

>> What's your perspective on coincidence

in life? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Serendipity.

>> Serendipity.

>> Yeah, man.

Well, first time I have it is deja vu

and you have it twice. I call it vu deja.

deja.

Let's flip that thing around upside and

backwards. Both sides of the coin. Um,

look, in some ways it's the beginning of

an argument

for God, a divine plan, u fate, karma.

In other ways, I don't mean that's fun

to start doing that math to try and

prove our way there, but

it also feels like those are the swing

backs. Oh, I've been here before. H I

was here before. This

This

life it doesn't have the the period at

the end of it. I mean, who knows how

many, you know, many lives, many

masters. I don't know if that's true. It

just sure makes it sure feels like it is

sometimes. Um, that's a rhyme. That's a

real nice a real time when life does

rhyme and you look and you look for the

math and you look for the science added

up and it ain't there

in that way. I do think science is the

practical pursuit of God of which we'll

never prove

and that's the point. So there you have

belief and faith for that which can't be

proven. But the pursuit of that is also

why I think God loves an atheist

scientist. It's like yes, keep it up.

>> Pursuit of that is why I think in my

agnostic years

where I said self-reliance, it's on me,

man. Forget faith. I'm not relying on

God. I ain't praying for nothing. It's

on me. Responsibility, self-reliance. I

believe that when I came back to my

faith that I heard God applauding.

Thank you for having your hands on the wheel.

wheel.

>> Thank you for taking the self-reliance

and saying it is on you cuz you know

what? I need that.

>> Well, it's that wonderful idea that God

doesn't want to do everything. Some of

it's up to you.

>> Amen. And though free will and faith

and self-reliance and faith, they can

seem contradictory, but I don't I don't

I don't I think they're the I think they

do rhyme.

>> And you need both. And we Yes, there's a

time for it. Inshalah, God willing,

there's a time for Well, if it's

supposed to be, it will be.

>> Yeah. Usually right after it happens,

>> you know.

>> Yeah. Uh, I think George Jenko says,

"Every man knows God when he's at his

lowest, that there are reliable times

when people turn toward faith."

>> And how many people turn at the end of

their life?

And I wonder, you know, if there is a

God, is that in the same way that, you

know, Catholicism could say sin all

week, but if you read if you meet it and

you ask for forgiveness on Sunday,

you're washed clean. Well, I see some

people use that as a crutch and go right

back to repeat offending. I've got a

appointment here going to forgive me

father for I know what I do. And I'm I'm

curious like is that okay to just

>> what's that mean?

>> Meaning there's the forgive me father

for I know not what I do.

>> And and I'm writing about well forgive

me father. There's times I know exactly

what I'm doing and I do it anyway.

>> Yeah. That was an error of valition not accident.

accident.

>> A choice I made. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Now if I'm going to keep making that

choice and be a repeat offender.

I'm not ready to go. Yeah. But if I ask

for forgiveness on Sunday I'm all clean.

We can do it all over again. I'm not

ready to I'm going. No, no, no. Hang on.

The buck's got to stop here, man. If

you're a repeat offender, God's going,

"Yeah, you're not going to sit there and

>> tom foolery with me here, bud."

>> Um, and I don't want to do that with myself.

myself.

Just as if I steal from you

and I come to you and I go, "I'm sorry."

That was I was I don't know where I was.

I was at horrible choice. I'm sorry.

Sorry. I'm asking for your forgiveness.

If you forgive me

cuz you take the my sincere want of

reconciliation, the first thing on the

docket between us should be me starting

to do anything and everything I can not

to have to come to you and say I'm sorry

for the same damn thing again.

If I do it

once, twice, I'm a repeat offender and I

stole from you three times, I think, and

I'm hoping you'll still forgive me, but

I wouldn't trust me,

you know. Um,

yeah. I think that's something that we

forget sometimes is that once you do the

forgiving, which let's go, let's the the

spite move out of us so we don't get

sick with that. The first thing

responsibility is on the one who's

asking for forgiveness to do everything

they can not to have to come to ask for

forgiveness or say I'm sorry again.

>> And I think we forget that. That's

that's on that's that's the debit.

That's that's what's owed by >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> the offender first.

You gave the grace to say I forgive you.

So he called we that doesn't mean it's

even money. That means I got work to do

>> to make sure I'm not coming back to ask

for it again.

>> As opposed again as opposed to there is

no amount of work that you can do that

will ever get you back to even keel.

It's someone saying

>> right the ledger is still imbalanced but

the door's open to the bank. the door

and and and it's on me to go

>> come and repay.

>> Look, I wish rehabilitation like the

jail system. I wish it was such that

once someone's out,

>> they're like you and me going to apply

for a job. They're not.

>> Scarlet Letter's on them. Well, that

means our our system of rehabilitation

isn't working

>> cuz if it works, you should get out. I

paid my penance. Now it's even money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about

think of when I've been betrayed.

When it's clearly betrayal, I know it's

betrayal and that person can look and

go, "Yeah, that's what I did." Um, I've

been asked for forgiveness for that

before. And I've been also seen people

go, "Yeah, that's what I did." And

they're not asking for forgiveness.

They're going, "Yeah,

that's what I did."

First response is, "Well, [ __ ] you." The

second one is, "If that's on my mind, if

that's keeping me up at night, that so

or whatever that is,

I got to I got I got to I got to flush

that. I got to wonder why is that on my

mind? I got to forgive that deed,

that person for that deed." And again,

not necessarily trust him, but do my

best to forgive him. And that can take

me a while. And I think that what takes

me the most time to to to forgive the

betrayal is

me when and if I betray myself, forgiven myself.

myself.

Because you know how it is, man. We

forgive too quickly. We dust resilient.

We hop up and dust oursel off and go,

"Forgive you. Let's do it again." We do

become repeat offenders because we

didn't take the time to put oursel or

feel the guilt of the wrongdoing and pay

a little penance to look at and go, I

don't want to feel this again. I don't

want to do that action again to make

myself feel this way. I don't it doesn't

it doesn't feel like me. I don't want to

I don't want that person to have that

sadness or anger with me again or the

world to have that sadness and anger

from this. I don't want to feel that

again. And that takes some pause

to then go now I forgive myself. Let's

carry on and trust and be ready to do

the work to say we're not going to we're

not going to just let that slide anymore.

anymore.

>> It's not there's going to be a way to

hold myself to the highest end. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Because it didn't pay off because the

repercussions sucked. There is a

unique sort of circle of hell that is

reserved for when you keep on making the

same mistake over and over again that

you've done it. You've had to pay the

penance. Yeah.

>> Say that you're sorry

and then arrive straight back at the

same place.

>> Yeah. I think there's a hell in the mirror.

mirror.

Then I think it can become a living hell.

hell.

Like I I got that poem in there, Daymares.

Daymares.

>> I love that one.

>> I do too. You know, night nightmares

suck, but at least you wake up

>> and they're over. It's the ones that

stick with you when you wake up and go

through your day that are right there.

Those are the ones. That's the living hell.

hell.

>> I think that's what you're what you're

talking about.

Word gets out, the circles gets out. You

people doubt you on your approach.

You're like, "Yeah, but don't do this

for this." I mean, all of a sudden,

you're going places and you got to look

over your shoulder. You got to see who's

there that I didn't pay back, who do I

owe? What bridge did I burn? What person

did I betray to get where I am? That's a

life. That's a living hell.

>> Well, forget that. That

in the modern world, you can move from

city to city. uh at least you can in

some regard leave your reputation

behind. This was one of the issues of

the west, right? This was how the snake

oil salesmen were able to keep going cuz

they would bounce from town to town, >> right?

>> right?

>> However, if you lose your reputation

with yourself,

if you no longer trust you, >> yep,

>> yep,

>> I don't keep my own word. I know that

I'm not a trustworthy person. I keep

making promises to myself and to other

people and I keep on breaking them. I

keep doing something that hurts other

people or the same person.

They don't trust me anymore and oh, I

don't trust me anymore. And you're 100%

right. It all comes back to being a very

personal act. And what some people would

say, oh, that person's acting selfishly.

No, they're actually being incredibly

unselfish. I think cuz they're pinning

themsel in a living hell and having to

look in the mirror and going, I don't

trust you. I don't respect you. Now, how

long? And I know some people that can

sleep quite well with that existence.

>> I don't know how long they can do it.

Sound bound to be some come up. It's the

world's got to get small. They got to

get dizzy somewhere. But,

you know, where's that come from?

Where's that come from for

an agnostic, an atheist?

Where's that come from? From someone in

power that could easily damage somebody

but chooses not to be cruel and they

could so easily. Why not? Where's that?

What What is What's that moral compass

of some sort of fairness or integrity

that keeps someone

having that kind of character even

though they may not believe in God or

religion? That's why I'm saying in this,

is it about belief? Yeah, the book's

about belief. That's what I'm pedling

here. I need more of it. I personally

believe in God but the whole thing is

not for if people that just believe in

God. You believe believe in trying to

pursue your better self transcendent

self. If you believe in the future, you

believe in your kids, you believe in the

past, something don't know what that is,

ask yourself what you die for. Start

there. Everyone kind of believes in

something. There's an argument that even

Nile believe has nothing. Nothing's even

something, you know. Um I don't know how

you double down on nothing, but

>> double nothing.

>> Yeah. There's a an opposite end to this

scale as well that continuing to sort of

betray yourself. Uh sometimes you can do

everything right and still not get the

result that you wanted and that seems

like a really tough pill to swallow for

people. I think that's why people become

uncomfortable with fully feeling their emotions.

emotions. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So

>> So

where do you go? What do you think when

I really I I gave it my all there. I bed

myself and I still got kicked in the nuts.

nuts. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Not only did I feel like I deserve it, I

feel like I earned it and I still didn't

>> Wait a minute. But you said that's the

playbook and I followed the playbook.

You said these were the rules and the

regulations. I followed it and I was

Well, suppose that's why we have

I have to I think I I naturally come

back and look I I I hustle. I'm a

hustler. I I I'm not puritanical. I'm

not making not I'm not trying to preach

a absolute straight and narrow way to go

things. I bullshitted my way into things

and faked my way into making things.

pulled off stunts, but

I I I I've never been able to really

live with by hook or by crook, I'll get

it how I can get it. I'll lie, cheat,

and steal to get it. I got the prize and

I'm still okay. I got it. My own shadow

chases me down in the middle of the

night. And those nightmares do become my

own daymares. Now they're getting going

for it and not getting it which we see a

lot now right now. I think we're living

in times where one of the indirect

examples we'll see seeing from leaders

some leadership is

who's got the power? The winner.

Okay. So what are the ethics? Well,

whatever the winner does. Yeah, but the

winner like pillaged and lied and

cheated and told him get the prize. But

he won.

Wait a minute. you moved the goalpost

while I had that. The ball is in the

air, man. Is that okay? They won. And to

I'm not buying to say I'm not ready to

purchase that. Okay, that's just how it

is. Um and

and

I'm in no way foolish enough to think

that everybody out there is on their

best behavior. No, me neither.

Uh, but I'm not ready for just hey,

however you can pull it off and however

many people you crumple along the way,

there ain't no rules, regulations. Oh,

and actually, if you do follow the

rules, you're a sucker.

[ __ ] you. What's the game for then?

We're going to get dizzy on that. That's

going to self-implode. That's going to

be That's not the Wild Wild West. That's

more than that. That's upside down and

backwards and the foot's on the other

shoe. That's not going to last. that

that that that that that doesn't have

any RO long-term ROI for us personally

or collectively as humanity. I don't

think so. We got to police that ourselves,

ourselves,

>> you know, and I think that's my hunch is

that we start with that. Everyone, no

matter how much they're thinking

globally or collectively, it all starts

with something very very personal. And

that that's where a revolution

will could begin. and a revolution of

evolution would begin that each person

goes, "I've got to go one step further."

As I talk about to salvage my character

or one step further before I pull the

parachute, quit.

I think that would that's how

you could really inch forward and evolve

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wisdom. Let's say someone has been

kicked in the nuts a good bit by life.

How do you advise them to sort of become

the hero of their own story again? Man,

Man,

>> that's a tough one.

I got a

I'm going to pull in here called Heaven

or Not and try and find it and uh see if

this kind of half answers that that question

question

and uh you know I don't have

that answer. A lot of times these uh

here it is heaven or not you know

tomorrow is not today's measurement when

the misery is bad enough right these

people don't have to the suffering consideration

consideration

is a it's a privilege man I'm trying to

put food on the table right now and pay

my rent tonight you want to talk to me

about investing in my future

and I say and that's part of what faith

and religion are for to help those in

misery hang on to a hope that will most

likely not be served serve them in this

life to sell them belief and faith that

they will be served in the next. And

what if there is nothing there, man?

What if there's nothing to hope for?

What if there's no next?

I don't know.

But either way, in misery here or

without a heaven there, not having any

hope or faith in anything is a certain

But if you can find something that you

can keep going,

something that no matter how small to

look forward to and continually have

faith in and chase, well then your life

here is going to be better now,

heaven or not.

That's a great question. You know, I sit

here with a life where I have the the

luxury to project, to ask myself and ask

others, no, make a sacrifice today.

Sacrifice a plastic ring today for a

gold crown tomorrow. Sacrifice something

today for more freedom tomorrow.

Sacrifice something today for a possible

healthier future for your kids. I

understand that's a luxurious position.

I'm not going to apologize that I'm in

I'm in it. But I understand to someone

"Good for you, man.

I'm trying to feed the family tonight.

I'm not thinking past that. I can't

think past that."

what he asked them to do. Yeah. My

indirect thing I would say and

understand is well if you don't have the

hope or believe in something you're

going to end up you're going to

definitely going to remain where you

are. And if you have hope and faith in

something, I'm not saying it's 100% get

out of jail. You're going to absolutely

>> peace is a gift of God and grace. To

reach it mean we must rage. age. Yep.

Yeah. I'm going to close my show that

I'm doing when on this little bit with

the tour with this with that cuz

cuz

hey man kumbaya

um I get it. I don't think that's how

peace is coming. I think that's a great

place to hope for, but to get there

is going to take punk rock

a rage.

It's going to take getting wild.

It's not going to be necessarily

logical. It's not going to be tame. It's

not going to be whispered. I don't think

it's going to take nothing. No emotion

gets more [ __ ] done than rage for for

good or for bad. Seems like rage really

moves the needle. You know what I mean?

>> And I think that that emotion and that

approach shouldn't be thrown out when

you're talking about a pursuit of peace

or contentment. I mean, it it takes

sweat equity. It it would take blood

being drawn.

I don't believe that we are as evolved

enough species

to as to just behave as we

intellectually can agree we should be.

I don't see it happening.

We can all agree with it

in an open forum. Enough of us go back

on our own and what we're doing.

You know,

it's a good idea,

but boy, when it's we're cornered and

what we got being possibly trespassed on

be very primal. Some lines need to be

drawn. I I believe so. Wonder whether we

uh overpraise balance

>> when when greatness might demand imbalance.

imbalance.

>> That's an interesting one. That's a fun

Yeah, I think my first reaction would be

we do overpraise balance a bit. It's a

I think a better pursuit is try and find

the rhyme in the inbalance.

>> Well, let me give you what I think is

the justification for why balance gets overpraised.

overpraised.

Most of the people who have a platform

which is sufficiently big with enough

credibility for others to listen on mass

>> have been through the rage and now burst

out the top to reach exit velocity. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> And what that means is

they're in a very different position now

to what they were at the beginning. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> And the summary is uh model the rise not

the result.

>> I like that. model the rise, not the

result. Because the result is where

they're at now. Do not ask Warren

Buffett about how long he spends reading

the newspaper and pouring over old

books. That guy was a hustler. He was a

hustler when he was young. What did you

do when you were at the stage that I am

at? Not what do you do now? Because I

want to get to where you are. That means

I don't do what you do now. I do what

you did to get there. >> Yay.

>> Yay.

>> Model the rise, not the result.

>> Love that. The approach.

>> Okay. I'm all over. I'm all for that and

the way especially the way you just

explained it and and let's just talk

about overall the and I haven't thought

of it when thinking about aspirations

with people and things but the result

which we know there isn't really one and

we cannot imitate someone else's exact

result. We're going to have our own

the the approach is all I think that's

that's that's the best our life can get

is one constant approach or and with

many different approaches but knowing we

never there is no result.

>> That's when I always say the metaphor

life's a verb. Um but that's that's

really fun to go no no no no don't study

the result. What was the person doing

when they got there? And everybody who's

achieved something great was some sort

of outlaw. >> Yep.

>> Yep.

>> Some sort of hustler. Out of balance,

out of whack, dark times. Woo. >> Astream.

>> Astream.

>> Still wakes up in the middle of the

night and glad there went a mouthguard

cuz they'd have chipped all their teeth

through that [ __ ] nightmare they were

having about those things they did back then.

then.

>> I'm one of those. Well, another question

would be, what virtue is there in

balance if there was no such thing as

imbalance to fight against? >> True.

>> True. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, I just reached equinimity, >> right?

>> right?

>> You know, I walked out onto this tight

rope. Yeah. Exactly. And I I don't know.

It just I didn't wobble once. Well, now

we're going into I have that I got that

thing there. I said, what what's better?

Take eight. Take eight eight big risk in

life. Sin once, miss the mark once, but

get seven. Achieve seven. Seven out of

eight. or take a hundred risk and

achieve eight of them.

My hunch is that

there's a God. He's saying go for the

hundred and get eight

>> rather than eight and get seven. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> If you're not take if you're not taking

enough risk

>> to sin or miss the mark, which is what

sin means to fail, then

then

>> what are you doing, man? Don't come back

with even money. go back with a safe bet

which that can become a sort of recessive

recessive

peace and namaste. No, it's a it's a

it's almost a it's I don't think it's

what the mystics meant when they were

like be disattached. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> I mean go embrace but

for highs and lows and pains and

pleasures understand that those outward

things are not the things to be attached

to for your own identity. It's got to be

inward first. Enjoy those, partake, but

don't become attached to those for your measure.

measure.

>> There's a an idea from Isaiah Berlin

called the inner citadel. He says, uh,

when the world denies us that which we

want, we retreat into ourselves in a

kind of spiritual depth into a sort of

inner citadel. Basically, if you can't

get what you want, you teach yourself to

want what you can get.

>> Okay? Uh so for instance um you damage

your leg in a battle and you can try to

fix the leg in which case you're fine or

if you fail you chop your leg off and

announce that the desire for legs is

misguided and must be subdued.

>> Right? This is a retreat in spiritual

death. This is uh aestheticism on steroids.

steroids.

>> Um I by not trying to play the game

there is no risk of failure. Right.

>> And I think that the not making any

bets. Um I I I see this a lot. I've been

very obsessed with emotions. Since we

last spoke a year ago, I've been very

obsessed with emotions, with feeling

feelings or trying to. And

I get the sense that feelings are one of

these strange bets. Emotions, investing

ourselves, not holding a bit back, not

putting one foot out, like putting it on

the line, opening up. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Exposing ourselves. And

that feels like uh a retreat in kind,

but one that's plausibly deniable. When

we just have one foot out, I didn't

fully commit myself to this this

project, this relationship, this

friendship, this this uh self

transformation. I kept one foot back.

Well, you know, I might I might not be

able to do that right now because I got

this this challenge or this this

restriction from before, this

relationship. Like, I'm going to hold a

bit back. I'm going to keep a bit for me.

me.

>> This is my bit.

>> And it means that if failure comes

along, it doesn't hurt as much. But it

also means that success is less likely.

And if success comes along, you know

that you didn't really earn it. You

didn't really win it because you played

the game. And that's fine in some areas

of pursuit. And at some stages of life, >> right?

>> right?

>> Early in life,

>> I don't think you can be left as

culpable. You're 12 years old, you don't

know what you're doing.

>> In business, the outcome really is what

matters. That is what you're optimizing

for. Some people business is a a a

personal transformation vehicle

masquerading as a wealth-making pursuit.

But for the most part, you're there to

do the business. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But in relationships, in friendships, in

the way that you show up for yourself,

in your personal transformation, in your

relationship to whatever you believe in,

>> I don't think that we should be having

our inner citadel really play any

>> hard to pull off. Um, but

I it's believe it's similar to what I

write about when I talk about a owner's

So many people have the renters's

mentality. Relationships, businesses,

transactional, you flip it, get it, flip it.

it.

And they never give the relationship the

chance to possibly be a friendship, to

possibly be a long-term relationship, to

possibly be a great mate, great partner.

They never give the real estate, the

house a chance to actually maybe become

a home.

I think it's the words better that to go

in with an owner's mentality.

Meaning, have you ever hired someone

that you were like

probably just need you for a few months.

You have?

>> Okay. You have. See, I I have only hired or

people that I was like I'm hoping this

is going to be a lifer. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> I'm hoping you're going to provide what

I need and I'm going to get you're going

to get for me what you need that this

could work out forever.

Barely any of them do. Got a couple

>> a few.

>> But that's how you entered the

relationship. But a one I wouldn't have

known or I wouldn't have got out of them

and they wouldn't have got out of me and

if as much if we wouldn't have gone into

it with an owner's mentality.

>> People can tell this is transactional or transient.

transient.

>> Let me ask you this though. Isn't all

right basically every I know it's

transactional transformational those

seem to be the two transaction

every relationship is transactional

>> but not only transactional some

transactional relationships could become

transformational but I mean we're all

using each other in a way that I can get

this from you give this to me my wife

gives this to me I give this to her it's

a transformational relationship but

we're always transacting so I don't have

the problem with the transaction I have

the pro I I I have I have the the whole

back when It's like, "Oh, it's merely

for transaction.

>> Oh, it's merely for use." And

how many people don't even try to hide that?

that?

They're just straight up going like,

"That's that's that's all it's for. What

are you talking about?" >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, I see it in in in in uh Palo

Alto, man. They raise all kinds of the

startups are everywhere and everyone

invests. You flip and it falls down and

no and they don't even blink. Yeah. and

you work for somebody and you become

their CEO and they fire you and d and

hammer you and see it in politics and

they hammer your name and drag you

through the mud and like dude that's

just that's how it is. No problem. Hey

Bob, how you doing? Like that's the guy.

No, that's fine. It's just business.

It's just politics. I'm like hang on a

minute. So that was that transactional

that that's water off the duck's back

for you? And for so many it is. I'm

amazed at how people do it. They're

built different in the same way as

doctors and nurses and firefighters,

>> people that need to deal with trauma, >> right?

>> right?

>> Uh you are dealing with interpersonal

trauma. You are you are a a soldier on

the field of interpersonal battle if

you're in politics or if you're in business.

business.

>> Yeah. You also don't necessarily do what

you believe.

>> You do what's expedient or successful or efficacious.

efficacious.

>> You efficacious. What's that mean?

>> Uh effective. Okay. Yeah. Um,

you betray

a lot of people, a lot of ideals,

That doesn't sound like very much fun to

me. Not that betrayal part.

I wonder if it's inherent or if that's

me reading it from the outside and

saying, "No, that could be different."

I wonder how much of that is people

optimizing for the wrong outcome and

only getting to see a very narrow

aperture of other people's outcomes,

too. Or this person seemed to step on

some toes and and break a couple of arms

on their way up.

They were okay. Everyone seems to be all

right with this,

>> right? You go, you don't know what the

texture of that person's mind's like

when they go to bed at night. They might

not have spoken to their father in 5 years,

years, >> right?

>> right?

>> They might never feel peace. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> They might permanently be anxious. They

might hate themselves. Might not be able

to get an erection, >> right?

>> right?

>> You want that. You really want that. But

you want this. You want the outside success.

success.

The price that people pay to be somebody

that you admire is one of the most

Yeah.

Trying to think. I'm going through my

head right now. Where have I sacrificed

my own character

to get ahead so then to be perceived

part of that

hustling part I said I've done, you

know, and I

>> That's the rise, you know. Yeah. And

being a marketeteer, too, you know,

gotten away with stuff, played games and

da da da da da. Kiss the fire and walk

away whistling. A little uh Icorus light.

light. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Did we talk about Icarus last time? >> No.

>> No.

>> No. I think I think we're more in need

of Icarus in reverse.

Meaning I I think, you know, oh, don't

get too close to the sun. It's getting

hot. It's gonna melt that wax. I think

most of us are turning back and it's 45

degrees Fahrenheit without bees on. I

was like, dude, what where do you go?

Where do we get the arrogance to think

that it's actually getting hot?

>> We're not even close, man.

>> Not even close to getting hot. I mean,

that close to the sun is way up there.

Arrogant pricks you are thinking that

you're that close. You didn't make it

near as far as you thought you did

>> or as you could go.

I wish more people I'm going to flip the

word were more involved with themselves.

>> Embrace your

>> instead of self-involved. That has a bad

term. I wish people were more involved

with themselves. Yeah.

>> I think that's where we're more deficient.

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wisdom right in the face. Yeah. You

thought you could hide back there,

didn't you? No, no, no. I see you, man.

You know the story of Seisphus? I don't

>> man that was cursed to roll the boulder

up a hill for the rest of time by the gods.

gods. >> Uh

>> Uh

this man gets cursed, I think he was a

demigod, gets cursed to roll a boulder

up a hill. It's heavy, heavy boulder. He

rolls it uphill and just as he gets to

the very top,

he stumbles and it falls down and

crushes him and he needs to walk back to

the bottom,

>> turn around, pick it back up. And

Albeckamu's famous line is we must

imagine Cisphus happy that this

pointless pursuit uh that he finds joy

in the process of doing it.

>> Um I wonder if we can imagine Icarus happy.

happy.

I wonder if we can imagine the guy that

is flying toward the sun as well.

He had a view that nobody else got from

up there and he only did it once and the

wings melted. But >> right,

>> right,

>> what if you'd run that experiment a few

a few times and what if you had a little

parachute that could have sort of

brought him down?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You might have realized that that was

just a one-off and actually I think you

can get closer.

>> Right. Right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We must imagine Icarus

happy, I think, is a cool a cool idea.

>> Yeah. And you know, he regulated his

breathing as it got so hot and sweaty and

and

>> he learned

>> somebody swung by and he had a backpack

with water on him the next time.

>> Yeah. He used the stronger glue, more feathers.

feathers.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He stitched it. You know

what I mean?

>> Came down a little more tan than the

time before.

>> I've always relied on logic to make

sense of myself and the world. I've been

finding that tougher to do lately. Seems

to me the facts have become unreliably overrated.

overrated.

What is a fact? Where do we go for the facts?

What's the truth? What's where to go for

that? That's probably a bigger question

than what's a fact. I think a fact I

think the facts are an underdog right

now. And I'm not sure where to go to

The math doesn't seem to be adding up.

I'm not looking around so much. And part

of the reason I wrote this for my own

spiritual therapy, I was going I found

myself getting cynical

not giving people the benefit of the

doubt, stereotyping, objectifying full

And then the scary part was I started to

entertain the idea of, yeah,

it may just be how it is now.

And that scared me.

And then I got angry at that. And I'm

still in the midst of some anger with that

that

which is a bit of that rage thing which

make me act upon it and go [ __ ] Mm-

not conceding and I don't think anyone

really wants to concede that that's just

the way it is. And if it is the way it is

and the reality is not enough to get off to

let's go to the dream. Let's flip that

script. I always have gone from

non-fiction to say let's make that the

dream. Just keep living. Art emulates

life. And that's in the recent years has

started to pay me back less. How much is

that to do with my own eyes?

Probably quite a bit. But whatever it

is, still seeing it and uh

I want to fight against it. So I flipped

it and said, "Let's go to dreams. Let's

go to pray poems, prayers. These are

pursuits of an ideal beauty. These are

in between the lines. This is in between

the math. This is not academic. This is

not intellectual. These are ideals that

we pursue. The beginner's mind that we

have as a child before we know worse.

And I don't want to be ignorant. I don't

want to be foolishly optimistic. Let's

look to those and believe that we can

Let that bring rhyme to the reason

instead of looking to the reason to find

the rhyme. Mhm. That's

it. The rhyme communicating with the reason

reason because

because

life around us is all like reason

reason. Neck up, man.

>> So, I want to pull some weeds here on

this pathway. Open up that this one lane

dirt top road with potholes and it's a

oneway going the opposite way which way

I want it to go. It's going away from

the heart. And to clean that up a little

bit and go, let's get you two

communicating a little bit. Uhhuh.

>> You're not going to win every time, bud.

Cuz we got we we we like our reason. We

want to mind oursel. But we make a

decision, we have any kind of certainty

or we make a judgment. Let's let's have

this let's have our heart be a

two-factor authenticator before we make

that decision. >> Um

>> Um

and uh that goes for the compassionate

side. That also goes for

the consequences and and of saying the

buck stops here with ourselves and

others. How do you advise perennial

overthinkers to get below the neck a

little bit?

>> Perennial overthinkers get below the neck.

>> Record themselves

all overinking. Have a listen back. I do

it. I overthink a lot. And when I've

heard myself back, I'm like going, "Dude,

"Dude,

you're kind of

seeing so much significance

that none of that shit's significant."

Every detailed frame have You're giving

it a proper name.

Oh, if everything's significant, there's

no significance at all, man. Some shit's

just like I don't have the capacity to

deal with it. I don't really care. It's

just how it is. Don't some of the

inevitables and sometimes you got to let

those ride. I'm not trying. That's just

how it is. I'm going to deal with that

now. I'm going to deal with what I can

deal with. I I get the middle agitations

on that. And I listen to myself back and

I'm like going, "Whoa, you need to get

You need to have a drink.

>> You need to relax. You need to, you

know, I got this uh uh funny appointment

here. It's called barbituate logic.

Where's barbituate logic? Can I find

this for a second? Uh,

Uh,

there it is. I need to calm my brain to

have half the thoughts per hour.

50% of the neural fragments and

therefore twice the power and one doubly

meaningful story with half the words.

>> You know, sometimes it the snaps it's

just it's too much. It's all treble. And

if everything is significant,

you're like, you miss the main thing. I

I'm missing so focused on the drop. I

didn't realize it was raining. It's the

force for the tree thing. So that's the

overthinking. When I've recorded myself,

I can hear that there is some lanyop

lanyop

etc. in my

talk and some of it is babble. Some of

it may be succinctly fine-tuned and

wonderful. Then I have to go, is that

useful to my understanding? Is it useful

to the story I can tell? Is it useful to

my application in life? And a lot of

times I'm like, no, it's clever. It's

like smart [ __ ] I don't want to spend

too much time in that head because that

sounds like, you know, you broke a sweat

in places you weren't really getting

exercise mentally, spiritually, or

physically. Um, so that could sometimes

listening listening back has helped me

baseline some things and kind slow the

brain down. Man,

you're missing me give more meaning. And

you hear the smartest people, man. I

love hearing the wisest people. Their

stuff's short, bro. It's quick and you

go, "Oh." And you're like waiting for

more and you're looking around and

they're like looking at you like that's

it. And you're like, "Perfect." my dad

telling me when I wanted to go to film

school instead of law school and I

thought he was going to go you want to

what him taking that pause and says is

that what you want to do and I said yes

him going

well don't half ass it

was waiting for so much more that was it

and there's no that was it nothing

better he could have told me yeah

>> yeah it's also I think remembering when

we overthink things or overexlain

things. You're stealing a lot of times

in in moments that you think maybe

you're teaching even ourselves,

especially others. You're stealing the

the dignity of leaving the truth in the

askers's kitchen,

like saying letting someone come up with

the have a conversation, but you're

letting them come up with

>> the answer. It's like what the best

directors do in films. They don't tell

you what to do. They talk about and get

you to go, "Oh, oh yeah." So, and you go

it is as you say,

>> then we got ownership and that's our

idea whether we were manipulated into it

or not. We're got going thank you.

>> It's mine. Now we got fire. Now we got

purpose. Now that you get the great

performance in front of the camera and I

think in in life more too when person

feels like they came up with the idea. I

always tell directors, man, I'm easy to

direct. Just don't tell me what to do.

And if you can trick me into thinking,

>> Yeah. You know,

>> yeah, there's a

wonderful insight about why we like

people that's similar to that. So, uh,

inverse charisma. Uh, a lot of the time

we think that we want to be more

charismatic because that would make us

more likable. We want our stories to be

engaging and our aura to be electrifying

and our presence to be magnetic and for

us to walk into a room and for everybody

to sort of look up

>> be compelled.

>> And then I looked at the friends that I

liked spending time around the most.

And they're interesting, but that wasn't

really the common denominator.

Some people are interesting

and some people make you feel interesting.

interesting.

>> And there's this wonderful story about

Jenny Jerome, Winston Churchill's

mother, and she gets to meet uh Benjamin

Israeli and William Gladstone on

consecutive nights for dinner. And she

leaves the first dinner, says uh I left

that feeling like he was the cleverest

man in all of England.

She goes to the second one. She says, "I

left that dinner feeling like I was the

cleverest woman."

And this wonderful idea that some people

are interesting, some people make us

feel interesting.

>> And and kind of the same with with this

idea here that uh >> allowing

>> allowing

allowing the conclusion to be arrived at.

at. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh is often the best solution.

>> Yeah. I I have to continue to watch it.

I love being in the know.

>> I I love giving

advice. I love sermonizing. My kids will

be like, "Can you give something a TED

talk?" Dad, like, "Yeah, shut

>> sit down." No, no, no, no. I've got slides.

slides. >> Listen,

>> Listen,

I let them find it. And you know, I

heard a cool trick and it was just so simple.

simple.

But uh one in

talking and

sharing something that you've learned

that you think may be applicable to

other people. The use of I, you or we to

use the we

>> like you is dangerous because people be

you're talking at me. You're telling me

what to do. I is safe because

>> well that's you're that's your

experience. Maybe you invite maybe

people see themselves or not. to say we

it's a it's it's closer to platitudinal

because you're going like are you

speaking for all of us? But it does

welcome everybody in. And it says that

and I always like to say this when I'm

talking about things with people. I'm

like when I when I say we, I'm I'm

including me. All right. Because I'm not

>> we includes me.

>> Yeah. We includes me. I'm not I'm

working on this [ __ ] too, man. you know,

um, and trying to and like I have to be

reminded don't don't be afraid to ask

the question that I'm asking for myself

that can open up someone else to go,

well, I got an answer to that.

What do you got?

>> Did with the similar with the kids last

night. Instead of saying

VA Levi Livingston, how are you doing?

It's a tough answer, tough question to

answer. I said, and my friend gave me

this note, said, "Hey, what's what's the

life of a teenager like these days?"

They took off and talked and shared all

kinds of stuff

>> cuz I wasn't putting them on the spot or

they didn't take it as put on I found

out so much more about how they're

feeling by asking

>> It's broad question.

>> Broad question.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You know,

>> Yeah. It's funny how we need license for that.

that. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> In a strange way. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

to be able to talk about is a lot of

times how we best talk about ourselves. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But couched with enough distance. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I have noticed I have seen it. It's the

I'm asking for a friend. Uh justification.

justification.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> What do you think about the role of

courage in life? You know, we've talked

the balance of doing it and not doing it.

it.

>> We've talked about dreaming big and

maybe dreaming even further. And then

we've also had this idea of uh a little

bit of relinquishing of control. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> As well as we got to apply the effort,

we got to have the vision, but we've

also got to know when when we're going

to let let go a little bit.

>> Yeah. It seems to me like courage,

the ability to feel our convictions and

>> commit to them is a little bit of a

common thread that sort of runs through those.

those. >> Yeah.

>> So

I grew up only knowing sort of the

courage of the persistent. Be resilient,

endure, get up, dust yourself off, go.

The problem with that, the Achilles heel

with that is if you get up and you have

the courage to keep on going every time

and get up and dust yourself off, you

make the same mistakes each time around

cuz you never backed up.

To have what I've now learned and still

learning is the courage to go, "No, I'm

going to let some people pass me in the

race right now cuz I'm going to look at

why I keep stepping in that damn same

pothole and twisting my ankle. The same spot.

spot.

why I keep failing when I try to get

that next spot in this relationship or

failing in this place to get this

product of my craft to the next.

>> Would that be uh the relinquishing of

the romcom era in in a a small part for you?

you?

>> Small part. Yeah. Uh yeah, that that was

one. It also has to do with when I got

married. my,

you know, son comes to me at four years

I'm going through my head. You're

[ __ ] four, dude.

I sat there. I was like, "God,

>> did your mom put you with this?"

>> It's a great question, but I mean, we're

not because we're not married. When you

get married, you switch your name. Okay.

And then he just got listened and all of

a sudden he goes,

>> "Are you scared?"

I'm [ __ ] four years old, dude. And I

was like, "Yeah,

I guess I am." I remember going to a

pastor and talking to a lot of different

elder men who had had long-term

relationships, were married for decades

and stuff, and and and my pastor goes,

"Let me just ask you this, Mr. Risk

Taker. What's the bigger risk?

Carrying on like you're going, it's

going well." or taking the deeper dive

into the sacrament covenant of marriage

which should be a covenant between you

and her and God. The trilogy will go

forward. That will be a whole new vent

adventure in itself. Are you what?

What's a bigger risk? I was like, "Oh,

the getting married's a bigger risk." He

was like,

he didn't say another word.

That was part of why I made the

affirmative action and was what I was

looking for as a way to play offense

with that choice. I didn't want to do it

because that's what you're supposed to

do. It's time. We've been dating for

this long. We got engaged. I didn't want

to do it by the book. and I was looking

being able to do the work I was doing

and offer the roles I was getting the romcoms

romcoms

was eating at me

because I felt like I could life is good

man I make good Honey,

feel like I can roll out of bed and do

one of these tomorrow morning. Well,

that's cool,

man. I'm kind of number one. I'm I'm I'm

the I'm the go-to guy for this.

But I wasn't I was countered by I had

met Camila, fallen in love, she's now

pregnant with her first child. So that

my life was extremely vital and I was

alive, cried harder, laughed louder,

felt more joy, all those things. about

my work was like all right and I was

like well I wish my work could be as

challenging or as vital as my life and I

remember looking in the mirror going

well be glad right now appreciate that

it's not the other way around but can I

have my work challenge my lifestyle in

this vitality

yeah if I do some dramas I want to do

well those aren't coming all right if I

can't do what I want to do quit do what

I was doing now that was

I think yeah it was definitely

courageous I did I honestly

think I'd written myself a one-way

ticket out of Hollywood.

People close to me. Basically, almost

everybody besides my wife was like,

"What is your major malfunction, little

brother? You got it made. Why Why are

you throwing a jack knife in this?

You're tripping yourself running

And I had my wife and myself to remind

myself of that 4:00 a.m. clarity that I

had in tears when I was like, "No,

I'm I'm I'm I'm rolling the dice. I'm

sticking with it." >> And

>> And

yeah, man. I did think I wrote myself a

ticket out of Hollywood. I did look at

other vocations, become a teacher,

a wildlife guide. I serious seriously

look at those things. Um

but over time and it was about 20 months

it was gone long enough had found

anonymity enough was not in your living

room in a theater in a romcom. You

didn't see me on a beat shirtless

where is he

and then I think I told you the story

turning down the $14.5 million offer

made people go oh [ __ ] what's he up to?

They don't just you don't just step out

of Hollywood and then unless you get you

turn that down because you got a plan.

you got somewhere you want to go and I

think that made me more

attractive as a new novel idea. But that

was yeah that wrist took a I think it's

fair to say that took a fair amount of

courage from me. A quick aside if you've

been feeling a bit sluggish your

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For a lot of people, their work feels more vital than their life.

more vital than their life. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Is that a a shiny object mirage that

>> Is that a a shiny object mirage that they need to rid themselves of?

If you can and you're willing to. Yeah. Look, that's part of why I started

Look, that's part of why I started writing.

writing. The script flipped on me 5 years ago.

The script flipped on me 5 years ago. I was like I was feeling like my work

I was like I was feeling like my work was more vital than my life. I felt like

was more vital than my life. I felt like I was going through the motions more in

I was going through the motions more in my life, but I was really getting major

my life, but I was really getting major life experiences and through my work.

life experiences and through my work. And I had the same question. I was like,

And I had the same question. I was like, well,

well, let's see where I can challenge myself

let's see where I can challenge myself more in the documentary, the one life

more in the documentary, the one life I'm living rather than the characters

I'm living rather than the characters I'm going to play that somebody else

I'm going to play that somebody else wrote, someone else directing, someone

wrote, someone else directing, someone else is lensing through their camera and

else is lensing through their camera and editing. What are we doing on

editing. What are we doing on this one take that we've had since the

this one take that we've had since the day we were born and will be cut the day

day we were born and will be cut the day we die. And so that was a challenge to

we die. And so that was a challenge to myself which

myself which led to the the writing which was a more

led to the the writing which was a more direct experience kind of put a word

direct experience kind of put a word down without it's my script and without

down without it's my script and without my performance on it without music

my performance on it without music without pictures and uh

without pictures and uh so that was an inward journey that I'm

so that was an inward journey that I'm that I'm still on and now I think I'm

that I'm still on and now I think I'm trying to want to do both of them. I

trying to want to do both of them. I just did a couple movies. Jeez, I was

just did a couple movies. Jeez, I was reminded how much I love it. M

reminded how much I love it. M >> it felt like freaking vacation going to

>> it felt like freaking vacation going to act again to have a singular obsession

act again to have a singular obsession like that was like it was a it was a

like that was like it was a it was a vacation

vacation >> for me and I did good work I don't mean

>> for me and I did good work I don't mean like it was laying back with the pina

like it was laying back with the pina colada I would getting what I wanted

colada I would getting what I wanted done each day and collaborating with

done each day and collaborating with somebody that I like to collaborate with

somebody that I like to collaborate with and building this thing and building a

and building this thing and building a character within the movie and being

character within the movie and being done I was like that was so much fun

done I was like that was so much fun that felt like a vacation much more so

that felt like a vacation much more so than the two months I just spent in

than the two months I just spent in Europe it felt like more of a vacation

Europe it felt like more of a vacation than that

than that which has led me to question myself.

which has led me to question myself. Maybe I need to learn how to vacation

Maybe I need to learn how to vacation differently.

differently. >> That's also a skill. Yeah, I hear uh

>> That's also a skill. Yeah, I hear uh True Detective season two maybe coming

True Detective season two maybe coming back.

back. >> That would be season probably five. I've

>> That would be season probably five. I've >> season two with you.

>> season two with you. >> Oh, well Nick's got an idea. Pitch a lot

>> Oh, well Nick's got an idea. Pitch a lot of the creator and he's brought it up to

of the creator and he's brought it up to Woody and I we've talked about it and he

Woody and I we've talked about it and he says he's got a line on it and we both

says he's got a line on it and we both said,

said, "Awesome.

"Awesome. show us.

show us. Um, that's as far as this has gone. Um,

Um, that's as far as this has gone. Um, I think we've talked about that. I I I I

I think we've talked about that. I I I I missed that. I loved that series. It was

missed that. I loved that series. It was my favorite thing to watch on TV and I

my favorite thing to watch on TV and I happen to be in it, but I just was I

happen to be in it, but I just was I loved it. I watched it every Sunday

loved it. I watched it every Sunday night like everybody else.

night like everybody else. >> Um,

>> Um, and

and in a series, it was the first time,

in a series, it was the first time, especially now, because things are

especially now, because things are getting abbreviated. The first acts of

getting abbreviated. The first acts of stories are getting abbreviated more and

stories are getting abbreviated more and more I'm finding and I don't know if

more I'm finding and I don't know if this is because oh people's attention

this is because oh people's attention span are shorter just introduce

span are shorter just introduce characters and let's get on with the

characters and let's get on with the conflict but act two starts on page 12.

conflict but act two starts on page 12. It used to start on page 37 38 and now

It used to start on page 37 38 and now it starts on page 12. And I'm like man

it starts on page 12. And I'm like man the actor's favorite part is act one

the actor's favorite part is act one because that's where we're going okay

because that's where we're going okay maybe you've seen it before but you

maybe you've seen it before but you hadn't seen it with me. You hadn't gone

hadn't seen it with me. You hadn't gone on this journey with this character. Let

on this journey with this character. Let me introduce you before the conflict

me introduce you before the conflict arises to this world and this character

arises to this world and this character and my behavior and my relationship so

and my behavior and my relationship so you can go on a journey with us with me

you can go on a journey with us with me like you've never gone through this

like you've never gone through this before.

before. >> Well, those are getting reduced. The

>> Well, those are getting reduced. The series of True Detective, eight series,

series of True Detective, eight series, eight hour episodes, man. I got three

eight hour episodes, man. I got three hours. I got I got 190 pages of an act

hours. I got I got 190 pages of an act one.

one. Um

Um that's a luxury and a beautiful thing to

that's a luxury and a beautiful thing to have to sit there and go okay you don't

have to sit there and go okay you don't and it takes took me a lot of patience

and it takes took me a lot of patience cuz I almost made some choices. I was I

cuz I almost made some choices. I was I remember sitting there after a month in

remember sitting there after a month in thinking like I think what I'm doing may

thinking like I think what I'm doing may be really boring and I was like no trust

be really boring and I was like no trust trust when when rust becomes crash it's

trust when when rust becomes crash it's going to flip. Trust getting there. But

going to flip. Trust getting there. But I was sitting there going and I was

I was sitting there going and I was going to Nick and Carrie on is this

going to Nick and Carrie on is this boring what I'm doing? And they were

boring what I'm doing? And they were like, "No, stick with it." I was like,

like, "No, stick with it." I was like, "Okay." I go, "You're you see stuff

"Okay." I go, "You're you see stuff bubbling underneath." They're like,

bubbling underneath." They're like, "Yeah." I was like, "Okay." Cuz I'm

"Yeah." I was like, "Okay." Cuz I'm getting anty, you know.

>> So, if that came along and it was the right script, be a great collaboration

right script, be a great collaboration again. Tell you who I had on the show

again. Tell you who I had on the show last week in London, Bugsy Malone, and

last week in London, Bugsy Malone, and uh he was telling me a few stories about

uh he was telling me a few stories about what he learned working with Guy Richie.

what he learned working with Guy Richie. >> Yeah. What have you learned working with

>> Yeah. What have you learned working with Guy?

is great in the moment, but you ask guy to work on anything

to work on anything or talk about what we lump for dinner

or talk about what we lump for dinner tonight and it may be six o'clock.

tonight and it may be six o'clock. That's too far in the future.

That's too far in the future. That son of a gun. He wrote he he he

That son of a gun. He wrote he he he wrote the script and I go in and I my

wrote the script and I go in and I my character had great monologues and great

character had great monologues and great things to say and it takes a lot of work

things to say and it takes a lot of work to work on those things and working to

to work on those things and working to understand them and I'd show up on the

understand them and I'd show up on the day and he we'd always sit down let's

day and he we'd always sit down let's hear it and he'd be over there listening

hear it and he'd be over there listening and all of a sudden be like oh god what

and all of a sudden be like oh god what did you say gez what was that line there

did you say gez what was that line there oh god that's rubbish who wrote that

oh god that's rubbish who wrote that well you did like oh god that's [ __ ] you

well you did like oh god that's [ __ ] you know what and he starts spitting out

know what and he starts spitting out different lines and he's rewriting on

different lines and he's rewriting on the day like right before you're

the day like right before you're supposed to do the scene not the morning

supposed to do the scene not the morning of and definitely not on a Sunday before

of and definitely not on a Sunday before the week. I'd ask him to meet me on

the week. I'd ask him to meet me on Sunday to go to the script. He stood me

Sunday to go to the script. He stood me up every time, every time. But you get

up every time, every time. But you get on set and now he's in it. And the stuff

on set and now he's in it. And the stuff he comes up with live

he comes up with live where I went from frustration to like,

where I went from frustration to like, oh, because 95% of the stuff he comes up

oh, because 95% of the stuff he comes up with live is better

with live is better >> than what was there. And so I started to

>> than what was there. And so I started to go, okay, it's a meter. It's it's a

go, okay, it's a meter. It's it's a musical meter of speech patterns that

musical meter of speech patterns that he's hearing. Pop pop pop. And there's

he's hearing. Pop pop pop. And there's no ums in any of his stuff. It's sharp.

no ums in any of his stuff. It's sharp. You know, it's it's it's it's noun verb,

You know, it's it's it's it's noun verb, non-verb, noun, verb, maybe an

non-verb, noun, verb, maybe an adjective, adverb in there somewhere.

adjective, adverb in there somewhere. Period. Bam. Pop pop. And he hears it on

Period. Bam. Pop pop. And he hears it on the in the moment. And again, he's

the in the moment. And again, he's funny. He'll call out something that

funny. He'll call out something that you'll think I thought was some of this

you'll think I thought was some of this genius stuff he wrote. And you'd be

genius stuff he wrote. And you'd be like, "Oh god, that's [ __ ] Who wrote

like, "Oh god, that's [ __ ] Who wrote that?" Like, "Well, you did." He's like,

that?" Like, "Well, you did." He's like, "Well, that's rubbish. Throw it out."

"Well, that's rubbish. Throw it out." He's like the uh he's like the freestyle

He's like the uh he's like the freestyle rapper of the director world.

rapper of the director world. >> Yeah. And I I loved after I got past

>> Yeah. And I I loved after I got past frustration. I I mean I enjoyed him and

frustration. I I mean I enjoyed him and working with enjoyed him before I

working with enjoyed him before I enjoyed working with him. And then I

enjoyed working with him. And then I understood the way he worked and

understood the way he worked and continued to enjoy him and enjoyed

continued to enjoy him and enjoyed working with him.

working with him. >> I really enjoyed working with the guy

>> I really enjoyed working with the guy and the way his mind works, his

and the way his mind works, his attention when it's live, when it's

attention when it's live, when it's time. Now we're in it. Now we're at the

time. Now we're in it. Now we're at the table. We are all here to shoot the

table. We are all here to shoot the scene. Let's sit down now and read

scene. Let's sit down now and read through this how it sounds. But you want

through this how it sounds. But you want to do this an hour before? You want to

to do this an hour before? You want to do this back in the trailer? Uh-uh.

do this back in the trailer? Uh-uh. >> Uh-uh.

That's exciting. That's like a tightroppe.

tightroppe. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I had to go between, you know,

So, I had to go between, you know, what's worth learning anything in the

what's worth learning anything in the damn script to No, no, no, no, no. You

damn script to No, no, no, no, no. You know, there's certain things. Of course,

know, there's certain things. Of course, you're reading this thing the night

you're reading this thing the night before thinking, I know 50% of this is

before thinking, I know 50% of this is going to be thrown out tomorrow.

going to be thrown out tomorrow. >> 60%. You know, um, but like I said, when

>> 60%. You know, um, but like I said, when you look and you hear it and you go in

you look and you hear it and you go in the moment, you go,

the moment, you go, "That is better." Yeah. And the hard

"That is better." Yeah. And the hard part is right after you hear it's better

part is right after you hear it's better and you agree it's better, it's like,

and you agree it's better, it's like, "Okay, let's shoot it." And like, well,

"Okay, let's shoot it." And like, well, hang on. I I need to It was a lot. Let

hang on. I I need to It was a lot. Let me have a look at it. You know what I

me have a look at it. You know what I mean? Let me try and at least memorize

mean? Let me try and at least memorize some of it.

some of it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Apparently, you've shot at Stray Vista

>> Apparently, you've shot at Stray Vista before. Did you have a cactus? Did you

before. Did you have a cactus? Did you have a

have a >> uh I had many cactuses in many places

>> uh I had many cactuses in many places that had a cactus. I was telling a story

that had a cactus. I was telling a story to someone a couple days ago. I think

to someone a couple days ago. I think it's the picture on the back of the book

it's the picture on the back of the book where my Airstream is there. I believe

where my Airstream is there. I believe that's in Utah. Mhm.

that's in Utah. Mhm. >> And I remember that place because I

>> And I remember that place because I pulled off the side of the road about

pulled off the side of the road about 5:00 p.m. one afternoon and I went on

5:00 p.m. one afternoon and I went on this dirt road through this camp that

this dirt road through this camp that was crystal meth. They were hacking it

was crystal meth. They were hacking it up and the the the the wandering eyes

up and the the the the wandering eyes and the twitches, they were all out

and the twitches, they were all out there watching me pull in. And I'd

there watching me pull in. And I'd learned from being on the road enough

learned from being on the road enough that it was me and my dog that when you

that it was me and my dog that when you go and you know some possible uh um uh

go and you know some possible uh um uh danger in the people that are around.

danger in the people that are around. You got to watch how you get out. You

You got to watch how you get out. You got to watch how you drive. You got to

got to watch how you drive. You got to watch how deliberately you back that

watch how deliberately you back that thing up. You got to watch how you get

thing up. You got to watch how you get out of the car, how you walk deliberate,

out of the car, how you walk deliberate, how you got your shoulders back.

how you got your shoulders back. >> And you also, it's a good idea to grab

>> And you also, it's a good idea to grab the baseball bat and do some stretches

the baseball bat and do some stretches with it with your shirt, you know, and

with it with your shirt, you know, and your dogs out. And while you know

your dogs out. And while you know they're over there a half mile away with

they're over there a half mile away with the binoculars, you just enough to

the binoculars, you just enough to hopefully have them go,

hopefully have them go, >> "Well, maybe let's pick the next guy."

>> "Well, maybe let's pick the next guy." You know what I mean? And that night, I

You know what I mean? And that night, I slept there and went to bed and I woke

slept there and went to bed and I woke up at 4:00 a.m. to this sound. And of

up at 4:00 a.m. to this sound. And of course, I already had on my mind if in

course, I already had on my mind if in case they come to break it, it wasn't

case they come to break it, it wasn't them. I, unbeknownst to me, had pulled

them. I, unbeknownst to me, had pulled up 6 ft away from a a

up 6 ft away from a a rail train rail and a train came by at 4

rail train rail and a train came by at 4 in the freaking morning and and I was 6

in the freaking morning and and I was 6 feet from it and that's what I woke up

feet from it and that's what I woke up from in that spot.

from in that spot. >> So, you do feel at home. We just need a

>> So, you do feel at home. We just need a train going by.

train going by. >> Train would be right on the backside.

>> Train would be right on the backside. Yeah, right on the backside. Um, in

Yeah, right on the backside. Um, in deserts, you know, you got me in the

deserts, you know, you got me in the desert. This is my This is where I I

desert. This is my This is where I I feel most at home in deserts.

feel most at home in deserts. >> Um, I don't know what it is. Deserts are

>> Um, I don't know what it is. Deserts are like cats. They're so feline, you know.

like cats. They're so feline, you know. Everything's incredibly clean. There's

Everything's incredibly clean. There's no mildew. There's no uh uh the

no mildew. There's no uh uh the moisture's not there. If something rots,

moisture's not there. If something rots, it dries.

it dries. >> It doesn't. There's no bacteria. And I

>> It doesn't. There's no bacteria. And I just love the cleanliness of a of a

just love the cleanliness of a of a desert. I get a lot of energy in the

desert. I get a lot of energy in the desert.

desert. >> What's the difference between a nice guy

>> What's the difference between a nice guy and a good man?

and a good man? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. um you know, right about that and there,

um you know, right about that and there, but a nice guy has is about some a nice

but a nice guy has is about some a nice guy gets along. Yeah, do that. Yeah,

guy gets along. Yeah, do that. Yeah, I'll do that. They don't necessarily

I'll do that. They don't necessarily have discernment or judgment. Not sure

have discernment or judgment. Not sure what they stand for or stand against.

what they stand for or stand against. It's like, yes, yes, yes, sure. Yeah.

It's like, yes, yes, yes, sure. Yeah. Hey, a good man has ideals that they

Hey, a good man has ideals that they stand for and they'll stand against and

stand for and they'll stand against and when they're tested,

when they're tested, a good man is not a nice guy. Um that's

a good man is not a nice guy. Um that's in the chapter of Manning Up.

in the chapter of Manning Up. You know, that's I was that time when I

You know, that's I was that time when I was doing the romcoms and that's all I

was doing the romcoms and that's all I could do. I was feeling like my work was

could do. I was feeling like my work was just me as a nice guy. And in life, I

just me as a nice guy. And in life, I was not just a nice guy. Like I said,

was not just a nice guy. Like I said, Camila's pregnant. I got a child coming.

Camila's pregnant. I got a child coming. I was I was feral with masculinity.

I was I was feral with masculinity. and and

and and my work. Maybe I was feeling a bit

my work. Maybe I was feeling a bit neutered.

neutered. >> And I was like, well, I'm I'm I'm I'm

>> And I was like, well, I'm I'm I'm I'm a good guy and a good man in life, but

a good guy and a good man in life, but I'm just a nice guy at work. Can I be a

I'm just a nice guy at work. Can I be a roles that can be a a good man?

roles that can be a a good man? >> And that was dramas. Cuz in dramas, you

>> And that was dramas. Cuz in dramas, you can stand for or stand against

can stand for or stand against something. Your ceiling for pleasure and

something. Your ceiling for pleasure and your basement for fame are up to you.

your basement for fame are up to you. How do you feel about it? And no

How do you feel about it? And no direction can go that's too much or

direction can go that's too much or that's not enough.

that's not enough. You got too angry there. Oh, you meant

You got too angry there. Oh, you meant that too much. Those that that didn't

that too much. Those that that didn't come in a drama. Those come in a romcom,

come in a drama. Those come in a romcom, right? Cuz the emotions and how you feel

right? Cuz the emotions and how you feel are compressed to be in a buoyant level

are compressed to be in a buoyant level in a threshold that's up bouncing from

in a threshold that's up bouncing from cloud to cloud only. Dramas are as much

cloud to cloud only. Dramas are as much pain, as much evil as you want to go, as

pain, as much evil as you want to go, as deep dark you want to go. Get there.

deep dark you want to go. Get there. Let's see how far you go.

Let's see how far you go. how high you want to fly, how close to

how high you want to fly, how close to that sun you get before you before you

that sun you get before you before you get burned, go see how far you go.

get burned, go see how far you go. That's what you get in drama. Much more

That's what you get in drama. Much more like real life. Um, and so,

like real life. Um, and so, you know, good guys, being a good good

you know, good guys, being a good good being a good man's a lot harder

being a good man's a lot harder for good reason. Not going to be most

for good reason. Not going to be most popular, not going to be always most

popular, not going to be always most affable.

affable. Um, it also doesn't mean you got to be a

Um, it also doesn't mean you got to be a dick or an [ __ ] Just means sometimes

dick or an [ __ ] Just means sometimes you got to go, I believe in this, is

you got to go, I believe in this, is this for me, this is for me, and that is

this for me, this is for me, and that is not for me. And because that is not for

not for me. And because that is not for me, if you do trespass

me, if you do trespass >> into my space upon me and my family,

>> into my space upon me and my family, there will be I will do my best to cause

there will be I will do my best to cause consequences.

consequences. And I'm going to let you know that. I

And I'm going to let you know that. I want I hope that's apparent because I'm

want I hope that's apparent because I'm not going to intrude on you, but if you

not going to intrude on you, but if you trespass that I mean I'm

trespass that I mean I'm I'm going to stand up for it and that we

I'm going to stand up for it and that we can talk our way out of that. Great.

can talk our way out of that. Great. No, it doesn't always work that way.

No, it doesn't always work that way. You know, a good man's not looking for

You know, a good man's not looking for trouble,

trouble, you know. Um, but if it comes and if he

you know. Um, but if it comes and if he or something he cares about unless we're

or something he cares about unless we're susceptible

susceptible to being trusted on but trespassed on by

to being trusted on but trespassed on by trouble, a good man

trouble, a good man does what he can to do to stop that. So

does what he can to do to stop that. So Aaron Bugsy um

Aaron Bugsy um tells this story. He famously had his

tells this story. He famously had his house robbery attempt occurred on his

house robbery attempt occurred on his very nice house in Manchester.

very nice house in Manchester. Manchester's got some spicy individuals

Manchester's got some spicy individuals in it from the gang culture and there is

in it from the gang culture and there is a CCTV video of him. Now by this point,

a CCTV video of him. Now by this point, this is I think 21 or 22. So he's been

this is I think 21 or 22. So he's been in the first movie. He has had multiple

in the first movie. He has had multiple huge albums, world tour rapping, done

huge albums, world tour rapping, done all the things. Most played fire in the

all the things. Most played fire in the booth, freestyle in history, all of this

booth, freestyle in history, all of this stuff, right? Uh so you might think even

stuff, right? Uh so you might think even though he came from below the streets

though he came from below the streets sort of he came from the sewers uh as a

sort of he came from the sewers uh as a kid

kid he has a public image to keep up. Maybe

he has a public image to keep up. Maybe he's got soft the sort of velvet prison

he's got soft the sort of velvet prison silk pajamas problem.

silk pajamas problem. >> And he told me this story and uh his

>> And he told me this story and uh his girlfriend rings. She's in the house.

girlfriend rings. She's in the house. These men are trying to break in.

These men are trying to break in. There's a barricade. So he's driving

There's a barricade. So he's driving back with his sister in the car. He's

back with his sister in the car. He's driving back and there's a guy by the

driving back and there's a guy by the side of the road and he can see he's got

side of the road and he can see he's got a brick in his hand. So, uh, Aaron stops

a brick in his hand. So, uh, Aaron stops the car, opens the door, and immediately

the car, opens the door, and immediately says, "Mate, is that you? Blue shirt.

says, "Mate, is that you? Blue shirt. That's such a nice blue shirt." And as

That's such a nice blue shirt." And as he's moving toward him, he puts his

he's moving toward him, he puts his hands in the air like this. He's moving

hands in the air like this. He's moving towards him. He's moving towards he's

towards him. He's moving towards he's moved to Hits this guy. Brick drops,

moved to Hits this guy. Brick drops, finishes him off, gets back in the car,

finishes him off, gets back in the car, and this bit's captured on CCTV and

and this bit's captured on CCTV and somebody overlaid it with the call to

somebody overlaid it with the call to the police. So, there's a 999 call going

the police. So, there's a 999 call going on.

on. >> Yay. from I think his mom who's in the

>> Yay. from I think his mom who's in the house. These men are trying to break in

house. These men are trying to break in and you see him pull up in this

and you see him pull up in this Mercedes. This guy been in movies and

Mercedes. This guy been in movies and all the rest of it and it's a van of

all the rest of it and it's a van of dudes. It's a van of men

dudes. It's a van of men >> trying to break in.

>> trying to break in. >> Yes. Yeah. You're trying to rob his

>> Yes. Yeah. You're trying to rob his house and see he's rich. He's got

house and see he's rich. He's got something that we want.

something that we want. >> He's already dealt with one of them.

>> He's already dealt with one of them. Think he might have dealt with another

Think he might have dealt with another one of them as well. And he pulls in in

one of them as well. And he pulls in in this fancy Mercedes. You see this guy

this fancy Mercedes. You see this guy who has got kind of world at his feet

who has got kind of world at his feet opens the door to his Mercedes, pulls

opens the door to his Mercedes, pulls his shirt off and just sprints at this

his shirt off and just sprints at this van. And he it was [ __ ] electric. He

van. And he it was [ __ ] electric. He told me this story is so electric.

told me this story is so electric. >> And that's on CCTV.

>> And that's on CCTV. >> That's great. There's best video he ever

>> That's great. There's best video he ever made right there, huh?

made right there, huh? >> So hardcore. It's so hardcore.

>> So hardcore. It's so hardcore. >> Um but yeah, that's you know, good man,

>> Um but yeah, that's you know, good man, not a nice guy.

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a checkout. I I guess are there any principles or

I I guess are there any principles or have you learned when it comes to the

have you learned when it comes to the masculinity thing, are there any

masculinity thing, are there any principles that you refuse to compromise

principles that you refuse to compromise on?

Let's define let's let's have fun trying to define masculinity here. I think

to define masculinity here. I think we've

we've rightfully so

rightfully so come out of the chasm that macho is

come out of the chasm that macho is masculinity.

I think through

through certain perceived and not perceived and

certain perceived and not perceived and realistic overcompensations of say a me

realistic overcompensations of say a me too movement

that some men felt

some men felt shamed to be masculine.

shamed to be masculine. Good men felt that way. I know for a

Good men felt that way. I know for a fact and again I want to say to all the

fact and again I want to say to all the women out there this has nothing to do

women out there this has nothing to do with being exclusive of the rise of uh

with being exclusive of the rise of uh the rights and power of women but in

the rights and power of women but in that over conversation there are a lot

that over conversation there are a lot of men that I know who were looking for

of men that I know who were looking for that definition that feel like

that definition that feel like >> I've been told what it's not

>> I've been told what it's not >> and now I don't know what it is and

>> and now I don't know what it is and [ __ ] I just opened the door for her.

[ __ ] I just opened the door for her. [ __ ] I'm done. Well, it certain and and

[ __ ] I'm done. Well, it certain and and and and I bring that up and sometimes

and and I bring that up and sometimes friends like, "Oh, that's frivolous."

friends like, "Oh, that's frivolous." No, but it's it's part of it. It's one

No, but it's it's part of it. It's one example of of like that's not what

example of of like that's not what that's not what me too meant

that's not what me too meant in the over conversation, especially

in the over conversation, especially when they said come one, come all

when they said come one, come all and Azizeri got thrown up there with

and Azizeri got thrown up there with Harvey Weinstein is the same crime.

Harvey Weinstein is the same crime. You're going no that's not the same.

You're going no that's not the same. Hang on a minute. Not

Hang on a minute. Not >> the same.

>> the same. There are a lot of men trying to

There are a lot of men trying to understand what that is. And like

understand what that is. And like anybody, they're not going to go down,

anybody, they're not going to go down, you know, anything to be corrected.

you know, anything to be corrected. Everyone overcompensates.

Everyone overcompensates. You know what I mean? And but that

You know what I mean? And but that there's men looking for a redefinition

there's men looking for a redefinition of what masculinity is.

of what masculinity is. And

And there is a difference. There are some

there is a difference. There are some wonderful, beautiful differences between

wonderful, beautiful differences between men and women, thankfully,

men and women, thankfully, >> biologically.

>> biologically. um not always exclusive of each other,

um not always exclusive of each other, you know, not and but there's nothing

you know, not and but there's nothing that I see this cuz is is right up there

that I see this cuz is is right up there at the top of what's one of the best

at the top of what's one of the best thing for women all over the world is

thing for women all over the world is more good men

more good men and

and a masculine

a masculine truly masculine man is not an oppressor.

truly masculine man is not an oppressor. Truly masculine man is not macho. It's

Truly masculine man is not macho. It's not chauvinist,

not chauvinist, but he's damn sure masculine. Most

but he's damn sure masculine. Most masculine I've ever felt

masculine I've ever felt after the birth of my first child.

after the birth of my first child. Never were my head, heart, and loins in

Never were my head, heart, and loins in such synchronicity. And the power that I

such synchronicity. And the power that I had was I mean it's probably the best

had was I mean it's probably the best husband ever at that time, too.

husband ever at that time, too. Men want to be, and I don't know if this

Men want to be, and I don't know if this is biological because I'm not saying

is biological because I'm not saying women don't, but men want to and are

women don't, but men want to and are looking for

looking for ways to be relied upon.

ways to be relied upon. And so we say, "Yeah, but you always

And so we say, "Yeah, but you always want to be the savior and you always

want to be the savior and you always want the solution." Okay,

want the solution." Okay, cool.

cool. There's nothing wrong with wanting to

There's nothing wrong with wanting to find the solution to things.

find the solution to things. >> Great. Let's work with that.

>> Great. Let's work with that. Thank you women for saying glad you got

Thank you women for saying glad you got the solution, but just listen to me for

the solution, but just listen to me for a second, Lauren, cuz I'm not looking

a second, Lauren, cuz I'm not looking for a solution. Actually, I just want to

for a solution. Actually, I just want to talk this out and I'll probably answer

talk this out and I'll probably answer my own question. You know what I mean?

my own question. You know what I mean? Doesn't mean don't be the male side of

Doesn't mean don't be the male side of you that wants to find the solution or

you that wants to find the solution or wants to be relied upon.

wants to be relied upon. It's being redefined now. And uh there's

It's being redefined now. And uh there's a lot of uh I talked to him and a lot of

a lot of uh I talked to him and a lot of young men and middle-aged men that are

young men and middle-aged men that are looking, you know, part of this role I

looking, you know, part of this role I got to play in this last film, The Lost

got to play in this last film, The Lost Bus. It was not, you know, visible to me

Bus. It was not, you know, visible to me that I was also representing a large

that I was also representing a large group of men who were middle-aged who

group of men who were middle-aged who woke up and looked around. I'm like, "Oh

woke up and looked around. I'm like, "Oh [ __ ]

[ __ ] this isn't where I thought I'd be. Oh

this isn't where I thought I'd be. Oh [ __ ] I haven't built anything."

[ __ ] I haven't built anything." failed marriages, failed jobs. Some of

failed marriages, failed jobs. Some of them did it all right, too. A lot of

them did it all right, too. A lot of them when things got tough, they snuck

them when things got tough, they snuck out the back door.

out the back door. >> Got the divorce, didn't go one step

>> Got the divorce, didn't go one step further, didn't show up, and that caught

further, didn't show up, and that caught up with them. Uh, but that's also a

up with them. Uh, but that's also a large group of the demographic of men

large group of the demographic of men going like, "Well, what does masculinity

going like, "Well, what does masculinity mean? How and where can I be relied

mean? How and where can I be relied upon? That gives me dignity to be

upon? That gives me dignity to be relied. That gives me significance.

relied. That gives me significance. Call it what you want, but if you think

Call it what you want, but if you think that's true, and I do, there's nothing

that's true, and I do, there's nothing wrong with that.

So, what is masculinity?

You know, I'm not going to, you know, let's get past the what are some of your

let's get past the what are some of your definitions of or understandings of what

definitions of or understandings of what masculinity is? If we were going to say,

masculinity is? If we were going to say, "Men, here's something that you should

"Men, here's something that you should expect of yourself and pursue

expect of yourself and pursue as a biological male."

as a biological male." >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> You know, it seems like a lot of the

>> You know, it seems like a lot of the definitions converge on similar sorts of

definitions converge on similar sorts of traits. Um,

traits. Um, emotional composure tends to be one of

emotional composure tends to be one of them. Uh, competence

them. Uh, competence tends to be another.

tends to be another. um the ability to be decisive.

um the ability to be decisive. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Is another of those.

>> Is another of those. >> So, we're starting to build this sort of

>> So, we're starting to build this sort of suite of traits,

suite of traits, >> right,

>> right, >> that it is. Uh but

>> that it is. Uh but as soon as you start to try and alter

as soon as you start to try and alter the edge cases, so well I mean you know

the edge cases, so well I mean you know going to have somebody who's

going to have somebody who's uh got emotional control

uh got emotional control or that uh even slightly at its extreme

or that uh even slightly at its extreme is a denial of emotions and no

is a denial of emotions and no vulnerability,

vulnerability, >> right?

>> right? >> Sort of uh all the bad bits of stoicism

>> Sort of uh all the bad bits of stoicism with none of the good bits,

with none of the good bits, >> right?

>> right? >> Uh and then okay, you want uh sort of

>> Uh and then okay, you want uh sort of competence. Well, that very quickly sort

competence. Well, that very quickly sort of turns into uh single-minded progress

of turns into uh single-minded progress at all costs regardless of what anybody

at all costs regardless of what anybody else thinks.

else thinks. >> And uh decisiveness turns into being

>> And uh decisiveness turns into being doineering

doineering >> and certain.

>> and certain. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need to listen

>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need to listen I don't need to listen to you. Um, so I

I don't need to listen to you. Um, so I think

think it is a a very delicate balance and I I

it is a a very delicate balance and I I I think it's a good point to say um me

I think it's a good point to say um me too was an important rebalance to men

too was an important rebalance to men being able to use their positions of

being able to use their positions of power to get access to women in ways

power to get access to women in ways that they shouldn't have done.

that they shouldn't have done. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> And the goal of me too was to sanitize

>> And the goal of me too was to sanitize the toxic elements of men's behavior,

the toxic elements of men's behavior, but instead it just sterilized all of

but instead it just sterilized all of them. It sterilized all of the elements

them. It sterilized all of the elements of its behavior. I think it

of its behavior. I think it >> and I think it's when it became so many

>> and I think it's when it became so many movements are are right on when it's a

movements are are right on when it's a rifle, but as soon as they become

rifle, but as soon as they become general admission.

general admission. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> It becomes the shotgun spread and it's

>> It becomes the shotgun spread and it's like, well, we got to Yeah. Come on.

like, well, we got to Yeah. Come on. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I don't know. You telling the truth? Oh,

>> I don't know. You telling the truth? Oh, it doesn't matter. Yeah.

it doesn't matter. Yeah. >> That's it. stops being the opportunity

>> That's it. stops being the opportunity to uh rebalance something and it starts

to uh rebalance something and it starts being an opportunity to grind an axe and

being an opportunity to grind an axe and continue to sort of put your foot on the

continue to sort of put your foot on the neck of of somebody else. So I think um

neck of of somebody else. So I think um yeah you end up with this

yeah you end up with this >> this strange situation especially around

>> this strange situation especially around me too. This is a pattern I mentioned to

me too. This is a pattern I mentioned to you last time about uh type A people

you last time about uh type A people with type B problems and type B people

with type B problems and type B people with type A problems. And the theme of

with type A problems. And the theme of that is

that is advice that's given on mass

advice that's given on mass is uh sometimes right even for the

is uh sometimes right even for the majority but will be um absorbed

majority but will be um absorbed asymmetrically. If you uh give everybody

asymmetrically. If you uh give everybody the same supplements, some people will

the same supplements, some people will be hyperresponders and some people will

be hyperresponders and some people will not respond at all. And sometimes the

not respond at all. And sometimes the hyperresponders are the people who

hyperresponders are the people who didn't need it already,

didn't need it already, >> right?

>> right? >> So an example when it comes to the me

>> So an example when it comes to the me too thing is the men who

too thing is the men who really needed to heed don't be pushy are

really needed to heed don't be pushy are precisely the men that that message will

precisely the men that that message will not work on. And the men who are most

not work on. And the men who are most likely to take it to heart,

likely to take it to heart, >> right,

>> right, >> are the ones who probably needed a

>> are the ones who probably needed a little bit more encouragement to go up

little bit more encouragement to go up to that girl in the bar. So if you're

to that girl in the bar. So if you're the type of guy who's who's a little bit

the type of guy who's who's a little bit more insular and a little bit more

more insular and a little bit more concerned and you didn't want to make

concerned and you didn't want to make her feel uncomfortable and you had

her feel uncomfortable and you had approach anxiety and then like believe

approach anxiety and then like believe all women do not the toxic male gays you

all women do not the toxic male gays you do not need to do the thing you're going

do not need to do the thing you're going to think oh I knew I knew all along that

to think oh I knew I knew all along that that was the case I must not I must not

that was the case I must not I must not do this thing whereas if you're the sort

do this thing whereas if you're the sort of guy who was already being way too

of guy who was already being way too pushy

pushy >> unfortunately this advice is there are

>> unfortunately this advice is there are hyperresponders and those that aren't.

hyperresponders and those that aren't. And unfortunately, a lot of the time the

And unfortunately, a lot of the time the people that are most likely to respond

people that are most likely to respond to bits of advice. And this is the same

to bits of advice. And this is the same thing when it comes to men should be

thing when it comes to men should be vulnerable.

vulnerable. Men should show their emotions more. Out

Men should show their emotions more. Out of the paniply, the full spectrum of

of the paniply, the full spectrum of men. Who do you think is most likely to

men. Who do you think is most likely to take on board the message? Men should be

take on board the message? Men should be more vulnerable.

more vulnerable. Men who are already

Men who are already >> already vulnerable.

>> already vulnerable. >> They've got a disposition to be more

>> They've got a disposition to be more vulnerable. the guys that have got the

vulnerable. the guys that have got the denial of emotions, you know, boomer

denial of emotions, you know, boomer absent father

absent father [ __ ] generational trauma passed down

[ __ ] generational trauma passed down thing. They're not taking their own

thing. They're not taking their own board. And uh it's just I I think it's a

board. And uh it's just I I think it's a fascinating challenge that we face when

fascinating challenge that we face when you say

you say the people who most need to hear a

the people who most need to hear a message are often the ones that are

message are often the ones that are least likely to hear it. And when you

least likely to hear it. And when you scatter gun it across everyone,

scatter gun it across everyone, >> you can actually not reduce down the in

>> you can actually not reduce down the in the bad incidents you're trying to get

the bad incidents you're trying to get rid of.

rid of. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And further reduce down the good that

>> And further reduce down the good that you were hoping to hold on to. It's a

you were hoping to hold on to. It's a solvent that works in reverse and it

solvent that works in reverse and it strips away the stuff that you were

strips away the stuff that you were trying to keep,

trying to keep, >> right?

>> right? >> And doesn't get rid of the bad stuff you

>> And doesn't get rid of the bad stuff you wanted to

wanted to >> evacuate. So what can we

>> evacuate. So what can we all learn?

all learn? What can men learn and what can women

What can men learn and what can women learn? In fact, okay, what do we learn

learn? In fact, okay, what do we learn from that heavy me too era where it was

from that heavy me too era where it was a toxic access that was you were getting

a toxic access that was you were getting away with it and all of a sudden? Uh-uh.

away with it and all of a sudden? Uh-uh. And I agree,

And I agree, but not to emasculate the good men or

but not to emasculate the good men or not have the ones that maybe were not

not have the ones that maybe were not offenders, but boy, right? you know, a

offenders, but boy, right? you know, a little bit more macho to have them not

little bit more macho to have them not puff the chest out more and go, "Well,

puff the chest out more and go, "Well, I'm going to double down on the macho to

I'm going to double down on the macho to push that back."

push that back." >> Cuz I I probably see it as a little more

>> Cuz I I probably see it as a little more progressive of a of a of a time in the

progressive of a of a of a time in the way that I agree the ones that maybe

way that I agree the ones that maybe were shy trying to recede, we're now

were shy trying to recede, we're now going, "Holy [ __ ] I was right." But I

going, "Holy [ __ ] I was right." But I also do think that it did

also do think that it did >> Oh, for chopped down tree and reminded a

>> Oh, for chopped down tree and reminded a lot that you go, you better back off.

lot that you go, you better back off. Better back down, boy.

Better back down, boy. >> 100%.

>> 100%. >> Yeah,

>> Yeah, >> 100%. It wasn't, that's not me saying

>> 100%. It wasn't, that's not me saying it's all bad, obviously. Um, but it's uh

it's all bad, obviously. Um, but it's uh >> thinking about the asymmetry of

>> thinking about the asymmetry of absorption uh when it comes to stuff

absorption uh when it comes to stuff like that. Uh

like that. Uh >> yeah,

>> yeah, >> I think

one of the things that I would hope we've learned from that situation

we've learned from that situation is, you know, the idea of Chesterton's

is, you know, the idea of Chesterton's fence.

fence. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, uh GK Chesterton talks about

>> Okay. So, uh GK Chesterton talks about um a liberal and a conservative come

um a liberal and a conservative come across a a fence post. Two two fence

across a a fence post. Two two fence posts in the field

posts in the field >> here right in front of us. Is there a

>> here right in front of us. Is there a fence here? And I don't have a fence,

fence here? And I don't have a fence, but you can imagine there's a fence

but you can imagine there's a fence here. Yeah. Yeah. Two fence post with a

here. Yeah. Yeah. Two fence post with a little bit of like wire between them.

little bit of like wire between them. And the liberal would say, "I see no

And the liberal would say, "I see no reason for this fence. We should break

reason for this fence. We should break it down." Conservative would say, "Hey,

it down." Conservative would say, "Hey, hey, hey, hold on a second.

hey, hey, hold on a second. Someone put that there. Maybe it is

Someone put that there. Maybe it is there for a reason." and the tension

there for a reason." and the tension between uh innovation, novelty,

between uh innovation, novelty, adventurousness, openness

adventurousness, openness and uh respect for tradition, stasis,

and uh respect for tradition, stasis, status quo. Uh on the other side, this

status quo. Uh on the other side, this is the perennial push and pull. How much

is the perennial push and pull. How much should we throw out these old traditions

should we throw out these old traditions and how much should we and I think

and how much should we and I think we

we learned a lesson

learned a lesson to maybe temper the throttle a little

to maybe temper the throttle a little bit to just sort of feather it as

bit to just sort of feather it as opposed to um

opposed to um whitewashing. And

whitewashing. And I you made a great point which is women

I you made a great point which is women want eligible men.

want eligible men. And this is why a zero sum view of

And this is why a zero sum view of empathy. Uh that if you give a degree of

empathy. Uh that if you give a degree of empathy toward the plightes of men

empathy toward the plightes of men despite the fact that for most of human

despite the fact that for most of human history they had some benefits that

history they had some benefits that women didn't apart from like the war and

women didn't apart from like the war and the death and the homelessness and the

the death and the homelessness and the drug addiction and the you know so on

drug addiction and the you know so on and so forth. Um,

and so forth. Um, if you say we can't give empathy to

if you say we can't give empathy to these people because it'll take away

these people because it'll take away empathy, which is not how empathy works.

empathy, which is not how empathy works. >> No, it's not exclusive of the other,

>> No, it's not exclusive of the other, that's that's

that's that's >> it's not zero sum. It's not a limited

>> it's not zero sum. It's not a limited resource that we have. Um

resource that we have. Um if you say uh boohoo poor patriarchy sad

if you say uh boohoo poor patriarchy sad complaining

complaining in the same breath

in the same breath uh men do not deserve sympathy. They've

uh men do not deserve sympathy. They've had it good for so long. We don't need

had it good for so long. We don't need to raise them up. And in the next

to raise them up. And in the next sentence saying where are all of the

sentence saying where are all of the good men at?

good men at? >> Yeah. is mating logic. Sepuku. Yeah.

>> Yeah. is mating logic. Sepuku. Yeah. Right.

Right. >> Uh and yeah, I just I get the sense if

>> Uh and yeah, I just I get the sense if any group has an issue,

any group has an issue, almost any group in society, we spend

almost any group in society, we spend billions of money in taxpayer funded

billions of money in taxpayer funded dollars to set up surveys and

dollars to set up surveys and initiatives.

initiatives. We don't tell them to pull themselves up

We don't tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. If men have a

by their bootstraps. If men have a problem, it is treated in a very, very

problem, it is treated in a very, very unique way. anybody else on the planet

unique way. anybody else on the planet has a problem, we say, "What can we do

has a problem, we say, "What can we do to fix society?" But if men have a

to fix society?" But if men have a problem, we say, "What is it men are

problem, we say, "What is it men are doing where they don't fix themselves?"

doing where they don't fix themselves?" >> And this is just a price that we need to

>> And this is just a price that we need to pay. As guys, it's a price we need to

pay. As guys, it's a price we need to pay. I've kind of given up on fighting

pay. I've kind of given up on fighting against it.

against it. >> But I certainly think after the last few

>> But I certainly think after the last few years, maybe we can

years, maybe we can >> dust settle here.

>> dust settle here. >> Okay, we've exercised that demon. Let's

>> Okay, we've exercised that demon. Let's [ __ ] start a new,

[ __ ] start a new, >> right? Yeah. I'm with you. You know, I I

>> right? Yeah. I'm with you. You know, I I one of the things I was questioning a

one of the things I was questioning a lot of my

lot of my friends of mine and some many of them

friends of mine and some many of them females that were around the leadership

females that were around the leadership from the Me Too movement was

from the Me Too movement was when are you going to start inviting

when are you going to start inviting good men, you know, to these gatherings?

good men, you know, to these gatherings? Well, come on. That's it's not you're

Well, come on. That's it's not you're not it's not a at the end it's not a

not it's not a at the end it's not a battle of the sexes. It's in a behavior

battle of the sexes. It's in a behavior that you're getting saying, "Hey, no

that you're getting saying, "Hey, no more of that."

more of that." >> That the male was doing great. Now that

>> That the male was doing great. Now that that's understood, there's a lot of men

that's understood, there's a lot of men that agree.

that agree. >> I I I remember, you know, it was like

>> I I I remember, you know, it was like a lot of people in my industry, men I

a lot of people in my industry, men I knew were like

knew were like would tweet out when it first happened

would tweet out when it first happened after the wine seed stuff, well, I just

after the wine seed stuff, well, I just want to go on record and let you know I

want to go on record and let you know I don't I I don't believe in Rick either.

don't I I don't believe in Rick either. And I was like, what are you doing,

And I was like, what are you doing, dude? You're kind of setting it up like

dude? You're kind of setting it up like was that questionable before?

was that questionable before? And then it was if you didn't write that

And then it was if you didn't write that or something like that. It was like

or something like that. It was like >> was the the black square of me. I was

>> was the the black square of me. I was never

never >> Yeah. The black square of me too. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The black square of me too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. >> I was never I was I I I wasn't on the

>> I was never I was I I I wasn't on the fence about it before, you know. Um and

fence about it before, you know. Um and that, you know, that that was not was

that, you know, that that was not was was more than different than just funny,

was more than different than just funny, but I remember that being an odd

but I remember that being an odd reaction. Um yeah. So yeah, I hope the

reaction. Um yeah. So yeah, I hope the dust settles and I believe it is

dust settles and I believe it is settling

settling >> now because I know um uh

>> now because I know um uh that uh

that uh a lot of people and women included that

a lot of people and women included that are friends of mine that were a large

are friends of mine that were a large part of the me too movement would I

part of the me too movement would I think in some part agree with what we're

think in some part agree with what we're saying going we don't want to we're not

saying going we don't want to we're not talking about cancelling men. You know

talking about cancelling men. You know what I That's not that was cancelling

what I That's not that was cancelling masculinity and that would be not a good

masculinity and that would be not a good thing to do for men or women.

thing to do for men or women. >> Correct. It's creating the exact earth

>> Correct. It's creating the exact earth of eligible male partners that they say

of eligible male partners that they say that they're looking for.

that they're looking for. >> Yeah. Uh you've got this great line

>> Yeah. Uh you've got this great line where you say so many people are

where you say so many people are obsessed with how to live longer instead

obsessed with how to live longer instead of how to live better.

of how to live better. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> How do you come to think about that?

>> How do you come to think about that? >> Quantity

>> Quantity success without the profit.

success without the profit. Oh, how much more can I get?

It's I I'm I'm I'm for it. The longevity, I'm I'm for it. But in in the

longevity, I'm I'm for it. But in in the pursuit of it, are we measuring quality

pursuit of it, are we measuring quality of life on along the way? Some people

of life on along the way? Some people aren't. And I I personally don't want to

aren't. And I I personally don't want to have the highest number, but then go

have the highest number, but then go that wasn't any fun or I didn't enjoy

that wasn't any fun or I didn't enjoy that or I didn't

that or I didn't that sucked.

that sucked. I'm just trying to remind everyone that

I'm just trying to remind everyone that just like in business when I say success

just like in business when I say success without the profit, we have plenty of

without the profit, we have plenty of people that succeed. If you got the most

people that succeed. If you got the most money, the most toys, you succeed. And

money, the most toys, you succeed. And we talked about those people earlier

we talked about those people earlier that have at the end of the day have

that have at the end of the day have problems in with relationships or they

problems in with relationships or they can't sleep or they can't get the dick

can't sleep or they can't get the dick up, whatever. They didn't profit.

up, whatever. They didn't profit. They're not profiting with their

They're not profiting with their success. Profit measures quality with

success. Profit measures quality with the quantity. So I'm saying real success

the quantity. So I'm saying real success is when you have profit. Well, really

is when you have profit. Well, really great longevity would be for those

great longevity would be for those quality years, quality time left in this

quality years, quality time left in this life. Um, I also say that because while

life. Um, I also say that because while I'm not looking forward to it, I'm not

I'm not looking forward to it, I'm not really afraid of death or dying. Not

really afraid of death or dying. Not looking forward to it.

looking forward to it. Shaking my boots if I'm face to face

Shaking my boots if I'm face to face with that great white, you know what I

with that great white, you know what I mean? I'm not looking forward to it.

mean? I'm not looking forward to it. >> But

>> But I see it as a obviously it's inevitable

I see it as a obviously it's inevitable and obviously I I personally see it as a

and obviously I I personally see it as a hopefully a comma,

hopefully a comma, >> you know, not a period.

>> you know, not a period. So

the number the higher number I don't know

I don't know just I think we got just watch being

just I think we got just watch being obsessed with that at the expense of

obsessed with that at the expense of quality of life.

quality of life. >> Is it the trade-off or do the two work

>> Is it the trade-off or do the two work in tandem

in tandem >> is what the trade-off obsessed with how

>> is what the trade-off obsessed with how to live longer than how to live better.

to live longer than how to live better. Do do you think it detracts?

Do do you think it detracts? >> No, I don't think it I don't think it

>> No, I don't think it I don't think it necessarily detracts,

necessarily detracts, >> but it can. I do think

>> but it can. I do think inevitably you might be if you're so

inevitably you might be if you're so obsessed with the projection length that

obsessed with the projection length that you're going to miss

you're going to miss >> a couple of really really worthwhile

>> a couple of really really worthwhile parties now

parties now where you may learn something have a the

where you may learn something have a the great love of life take a certain risk

great love of life take a certain risk that oh you may not make it out of that

that oh you may not make it out of that but we're going to do it anyway.

but we're going to do it anyway. Um and I'm all for projection. It's a

Um and I'm all for projection. It's a lot of what my g my it's a lot of my

lot of what my g my it's a lot of my jam. How far can we project in the

jam. How far can we project in the future? Boy, the further we can project

future? Boy, the further we can project the further I think we can see in the

the further I think we can see in the past. The more we have the ability to

past. The more we have the ability to invest in ourselves today to get that

invest in ourselves today to get that more ROI tomorrow. I just think an

more ROI tomorrow. I just think an obsession with the number can sometimes

obsession with the number can sometimes get in the way of seeing

get in the way of seeing more of an obsession with the quality

more of an obsession with the quality and the meaning of what what we're doing

and the meaning of what what we're doing right here. What's now and tomorrow?

right here. What's now and tomorrow? >> Is there something you do to remind

>> Is there something you do to remind yourself to inject more fun into your

yourself to inject more fun into your life?

life? Uh, I mean, I've got some simple tricks,

Uh, I mean, I've got some simple tricks, you know, if I'm not sure how to

you know, if I'm not sure how to respond, try to make the default to

respond, try to make the default to motion, humor.

motion, humor. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> And I'm a big fan big fan of of of

>> And I'm a big fan big fan of of of humor. And I wish we had more of it. Um,

humor. And I wish we had more of it. Um, and I think it's how we're going to get

and I think it's how we're going to get through a lot of these things that we

through a lot of these things that we have. Um, is we're going to have to all

have. Um, is we're going to have to all giggle at a few things and go, "Yeah."

giggle at a few things and go, "Yeah." And also at ourselves to be able to I'm

And also at ourselves to be able to I'm still learning and getting better. I try

still learning and getting better. I try not to giggle at myself when I bogey.

not to giggle at myself when I bogey. >> You know what I mean? Just go,

>> You know what I mean? Just go, >> "Yep." And and and to not be afraid of

>> "Yep." And and and to not be afraid of that failure, to be able to fess up and

that failure, to be able to fess up and go, "Yep, that was me." Oh, good gez,

go, "Yep, that was me." Oh, good gez, that didn't work. Um

that didn't work. Um laughter. I think we we we we it's taken

laughter. I think we we we we it's taken as being

discompassionate sometimes or it's being insensitive

insensitive >> and flippant.

>> and flippant. >> Yeah. like you're making you're making

>> Yeah. like you're making you're making the crisis benign. You're not giving the

the crisis benign. You're not giving the crisis credit. No, I'm giving the crisis

crisis credit. No, I'm giving the crisis credit, but I'm saying the crisis has

credit, but I'm saying the crisis has happened and now we got to deal with

happened and now we got to deal with getting through this son of a [ __ ] So,

getting through this son of a [ __ ] So, it's going to be tough. So, let can we

it's going to be tough. So, let can we giggle our way through untying this

giggle our way through untying this knot? I'm not patronizing the crisis at

knot? I'm not patronizing the crisis at all. I just want to go ahead and have a

all. I just want to go ahead and have a you know it's why you know uh um um uh

you know it's why you know uh um um uh the greatest comedians you know

the greatest comedians you know Chappelle he says stuff while the wounds

Chappelle he says stuff while the wounds people go you can't say that now the

people go you can't say that now the wound wound's too fresh it's why he's so

wound wound's too fresh it's why he's so smart and why he's so funny because he

smart and why he's so funny because he says it beforehand and calls it out

says it beforehand and calls it out >> Jimmy Car's got a bit about that where I

>> Jimmy Car's got a bit about that where I think he says uh saying that there is a

think he says uh saying that there is a topic too sensitive to joke about is

topic too sensitive to joke about is like saying there is a disease too

like saying there is a disease too serious to

Okay. Okay. I like that. Wow. Yeah. You know. Yeah. What uh uh uh and humor as

know. Yeah. What uh uh uh and humor as well with a is as a learning and a

well with a is as a learning and a teaching tool and and and and a and a

teaching tool and and and and a and a true humility with our own selves

true humility with our own selves of what we can learn and how we can

of what we can learn and how we can learn what we know and in written what

learn what we know and in written what we don't know. Um, and it's a uh it's

we don't know. Um, and it's a uh it's it's a great way to

not convert. It's a great way to help someone understand.

someone understand. >> It makes it it's why I'm rhyming in

>> It makes it it's why I'm rhyming in here. It's why some of these are

here. It's why some of these are diddies. It's why I'm saying let's sell

diddies. It's why I'm saying let's sell Sunday morning like a Saturday night.

Sunday morning like a Saturday night. Let's let's let's let's have a beer on

Let's let's let's let's have a beer on the way to the temple. You know what I

the way to the temple. You know what I mean? It's it's more digestible. We can

mean? It's it's more digestible. We can dance to it. And the broccoli actually

dance to it. And the broccoli actually does more than taste like candy. It is

does more than taste like candy. It is the candy.

the candy. >> What's that? Uh, you got a poem called

>> What's that? Uh, you got a poem called Life and Candy Crush. Is there a

Life and Candy Crush. Is there a parallel between the two?

parallel between the two? >> I love that game. I love Candy Crush,

>> I love that game. I love Candy Crush, guys. I said it.

guys. I said it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> You're out there. Send me some free

>> You're out there. Send me some free lives or some a whole bunch of those

lives or some a whole bunch of those prizes in there. Yeah. I I my kids

prizes in there. Yeah. I I my kids always bust me for playing Candy Crush.

always bust me for playing Candy Crush. I'm like, "This is a great game." And

I'm like, "This is a great game." And let me tell you why. So, I decided to

let me tell you why. So, I decided to put in there what I've shared with my

put in there what I've shared with my children, what I've noticed.

children, what I've noticed. >> You've learned from the great game of

>> You've learned from the great game of Candy Crush.

Candy Crush. >> I've learned from the great game of

>> I've learned from the great game of Candy Crush. Yeah,

Candy Crush. Yeah, >> that's funny. Um, I'm interested in

>> that's funny. Um, I'm interested in where confidence comes from as far as

where confidence comes from as far as you're concerned.

you're concerned. >> Yeah.

it definitely comes from belief,

pulling something off. Comes from, oh, I I I I I think I got an

Comes from, oh, I I I I I think I got an ability to do that. Let me work on that.

ability to do that. Let me work on that. Let me prepare to do that. Oh, [ __ ] I'm

Let me prepare to do that. Oh, [ __ ] I'm not sure. Bam. I'm in the game. Action,

not sure. Bam. I'm in the game. Action, cut, life or movie.

cut, life or movie. >> Ah,

>> Ah, I did it. I felt it, too. I know I did

I did it. I felt it, too. I know I did it. And you, who were the observer go,

it. And you, who were the observer go, you did it. I got confidence. I

you did it. I got confidence. I personally felt it and it translated.

personally felt it and it translated. Subjectively, I felt it. And

Subjectively, I felt it. And objectively, you went, "Yep."

objectively, you went, "Yep." Confidence. I make a big plan. I write

Confidence. I make a big plan. I write something out. A plan for the day, the

something out. A plan for the day, the week, an an event, a circumstance, a

week, an an event, a circumstance, a scene. I write out all this stuff, what

scene. I write out all this stuff, what my incentive or what I want to do, what

my incentive or what I want to do, what I hope comes from this. And I shut that

I hope comes from this. And I shut that and a year later I do that scene or I'm

and a year later I do that scene or I'm at that event and someone comes up

at that event and someone comes up afterwards and goes, "You know what that

afterwards and goes, "You know what that was, man? That was"

was, man? That was" And I'm like, "Yeah, that's exactly what

And I'm like, "Yeah, that's exactly what I wrote

a year ago." >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> It's what I wanted to do.

>> It's what I wanted to do. Pulled it off without saying one of

Pulled it off without saying one of those words.

those words. >> That's what you got from it?

>> That's what you got from it? >> Yes.

>> Yes. confidence, identity,

confidence, identity, testing it out and it can work.

testing it out and it can work. Confidence to go, I'm going to try and

Confidence to go, I'm going to try and pull this off. Maybe get away with it,

pull this off. Maybe get away with it, maybe it won't work.

Pulling things off, translating without saying

saying the word or without manipulation.

the word or without manipulation. feeling when I in something that we have

feeling when I in something that we have and I have an innate ability for

and I have an innate ability for something that I believe I have the

something that I believe I have the innate ability and I learn to the reason

innate ability and I learn to the reason behind that instinct and how to how to

behind that instinct and how to how to where's the right time timing. Oh, and

where's the right time timing. Oh, and it'll work I think right here. Who's the

it'll work I think right here. Who's the audience I'm talking to? Oh yeah, I'm

audience I'm talking to? Oh yeah, I'm going to make a plan

going to make a plan >> for that sale if it's all sales for that

>> for that sale if it's all sales for that transaction or whatever. And bam, it

transaction or whatever. And bam, it hits and it lands like I wanted it to.

hits and it lands like I wanted it to. Dogs damn it. Was that deja vu? It

Dogs damn it. Was that deja vu? It happened. That's how I saw it. That I

happened. That's how I saw it. That I get confidence from that.

get confidence from that. Um,

I've still working on and and and you know

know now I think even more

now I think even more in this I'm not going to say second half

in this I'm not going to say second half whatever the 50s

humility while still maintaining confidence. I had a really tough

confidence. I had a really tough relationship with humility, the

relationship with humility, the definition,

definition, until I heard

until I heard um I think it was Jordan Peterson's

um I think it was Jordan Peterson's definition. Humility is admitting we

definition. Humility is admitting we have more to learn and I was like, "Oh,

have more to learn and I was like, "Oh, whoa. I'm in.

whoa. I'm in. >> I can get on board with that.

>> I can get on board with that. >> Let me sign up." Because before that,

>> Let me sign up." Because before that, humility to be humbled, to be

humility to be humbled, to be humiliated. My shoulders would sink. I

humiliated. My shoulders would sink. I would be small

would be small >> passive and wouldn't speak up or there's

>> passive and wouldn't speak up or there's the opportunity

the opportunity and I miss it

and I miss it and I was like man I don't think that's

and I was like man I don't think that's what it means but I don't know how to

what it means but I don't know how to get around it.

get around it. >> It funny how we need the definition of

>> It funny how we need the definition of words to change a little bit like that

words to change a little bit like that some and that could be just a that can

some and that could be just a that can be a 180.

be a 180. >> You know what I heard the other day? I

>> You know what I heard the other day? I heard a fantastic new definition of

heard a fantastic new definition of vulnerability.

vulnerability. >> What was it? said, "Vulnerability

>> What was it? said, "Vulnerability is saying your truth in spite of the

is saying your truth in spite of the consequences, especially when they're

consequences, especially when they're scary."

scary." >> Oh, see, that sounds fun.

>> Oh, see, that sounds fun. >> Get on board with that.

>> Get on board with that. >> That sounds fun. That's a That That's a

>> That sounds fun. That's a That That's a different kind of surrender.

different kind of surrender. >> Yeah. Say what's true in spite of the

>> Yeah. Say what's true in spite of the consequences.

consequences. >> In spite of the consequences.

>> In spite of the consequences. >> Especially when it's scary.

>> Especially when it's scary. >> I'll be damned. Especially when it's

>> I'll be damned. Especially when it's scary.

scary. >> Yeah. Especially when it's scary.

>> Yeah. Especially when it's scary. >> Ah, I like that. It's got offense to it.

>> Ah, I like that. It's got offense to it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm on the

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm on the front foot.

front foot. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. I feel like it's something that's

>> Mhm. I feel like it's something that's noble.

noble. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And it's the same with this

>> Right. And it's the same with this rework or perhaps the original work of

rework or perhaps the original work of humility.

humility. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Brilliant. I can I can step forward into

>> Brilliant. I can I can step forward into this.

this. >> Not stepping back

>> Not stepping back >> away from it. And I think specifically

>> away from it. And I think specifically uh with men,

uh with men, >> I think uh

>> it's a a perhaps a a very smart way to do a super secret squirrel technique,

do a super secret squirrel technique, you know, Jedi mind trick to go,

you know, Jedi mind trick to go, >> so this is not a step back. It's

>> so this is not a step back. It's actually ically Brazilian jiu-jitsu this

actually ically Brazilian jiu-jitsu this thing into you're going forward now.

thing into you're going forward now. >> Um

>> Um but yeah, I I I think

but yeah, I I I think >> and and and and

>> and and and and dare I say women out there, did you hear

dare I say women out there, did you hear that?

that? >> Manipulate us to feel that way. Oh yeah,

>> Manipulate us to feel that way. Oh yeah, go for it. Manipulated all day into that

go for it. Manipulated all day into that and call us childish for wanting and

and call us childish for wanting and needing that. Play it, man. We'll we'll

needing that. Play it, man. We'll we'll take it.

take it. >> These are the these are the cheat codes.

>> These are the these are the cheat codes. Let Let us lay them out in front of you.

Let Let us lay them out in front of you. >> Yeah. You know, one of the best uh best

>> Yeah. You know, one of the best uh best bits of advice that I heard this sort of

bits of advice that I heard this sort of reframe that's similar to that. Um this

reframe that's similar to that. Um this guy was talking about he was in a

guy was talking about he was in a relationship with a lady and he had to

relationship with a lady and he had to be clean shaven through the week and

be clean shaven through the week and would leave his facial hair to grow over

would leave his facial hair to grow over the weekend. By Sunday evening, you

the weekend. By Sunday evening, you know, he's got enough stubble to really

know, he's got enough stubble to really scratch. And his exartner would say, "I

scratch. And his exartner would say, "I just hate on a Sunday where your face is

just hate on a Sunday where your face is scratching me in my mouth. I'm I'm so

scratching me in my mouth. I'm I'm so red and and and raw and it's so

red and and and raw and it's so annoying. And uh needless to say, that

annoying. And uh needless to say, that relationship didn't work. And then he

relationship didn't work. And then he moved into another relationship and this

moved into another relationship and this new partner had the exact same

new partner had the exact same preference, but said to him, "Honey, I

preference, but said to him, "Honey, I find it so sexy when you're clean

find it so sexy when you're clean shaven.

shaven. >> I think that's just the hottest thing in

>> I think that's just the hottest thing in the world.

the world. >> Incentives. Incentives. Follow the

>> Incentives. Incentives. Follow the incentives."

incentives." >> Oh, just lay out that little breadcrumb

>> Oh, just lay out that little breadcrumb in front of us. We will chase that

in front of us. We will chase that carrot, man. It's it's it's we're lead

carrot, man. It's it's it's we're lead pipe cent. It's so easy.

pipe cent. It's so easy. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um without

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um without complacency, trust that time is on your

complacency, trust that time is on your side.

side. >> What do you mean that?

>> What do you mean that? >> Yeah, man. Don't get ahead behind it. I

>> Yeah, man. Don't get ahead behind it. I can get in a rush and I haven't found

can get in a rush and I haven't found Look and I know how to hustle and let's

Look and I know how to hustle and let's go. The clock's ticking. We're all

go. The clock's ticking. We're all behind. All hands on deck. We got to

behind. All hands on deck. We got to bust ass. No time for pause. There's no

bust ass. No time for pause. There's no sleep, no nothing. Get the caffeine out.

sleep, no nothing. Get the caffeine out. Let's go. Mhm.

Let's go. Mhm. >> Sometimes we got to do that, but that is

>> Sometimes we got to do that, but that is usually because an unforeseen

usually because an unforeseen circumstance has happened that there's a

circumstance has happened that there's a crisis we got to deal with or we've uh

crisis we got to deal with or we've uh procrastinated and I put myself in that

procrastinated and I put myself in that position where I got we got to cram.

position where I got we got to cram. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> But

>> But it's not those two circumstances. We got

it's not those two circumstances. We got to watch oursel getting ahead of time

to watch oursel getting ahead of time and it's on your side. It's a little

and it's on your side. It's a little what I mean about the living longer and

what I mean about the living longer and living more quality. Time's on our side

living more quality. Time's on our side and we're forced to think and feel

and we're forced to think and feel especially today with how fast things

especially today with how fast things move that more productivity, faster

move that more productivity, faster pace, more information, faster pace,

pace, more information, faster pace, it's better. We're we're ahead of we're

it's better. We're we're ahead of we're ahead of of time a lot and but time's

ahead of of time a lot and but time's still moving at the same speed and

still moving at the same speed and they're not given more than 24 hours a

they're not given more than 24 hours a day. Even though me, like a lot of

day. Even though me, like a lot of people are looking for more.

people are looking for more. >> There just not there's not there not any

>> There just not there's not there not any more unless you just want to change your

more unless you just want to change your workday and some people do. me, I need

workday and some people do. me, I need my 9 and a half hours sleep. If I want

my 9 and a half hours sleep. If I want to say I'm getting four hours sleep and

to say I'm getting four hours sleep and get five and a half miles more of a

get five and a half miles more of a workday to be more productive, I would.

workday to be more productive, I would. But not to making that trade-off.

But not to making that trade-off. >> It's on our side. And when we're feeling

>> It's on our side. And when we're feeling like we're dancing with time,

like we're dancing with time, I know I'm usually getting as much or

I know I'm usually getting as much or I'm getting more done at the same pace

I'm getting more done at the same pace >> than if I'm It's the John Wooden, a

>> than if I'm It's the John Wooden, a great basketball coach for UCLA. Be

great basketball coach for UCLA. Be quick, but don't be in a hurry. That was

quick, but don't be in a hurry. That was his note to the his basketball players

his note to the his basketball players like be quick but don't be in a hurry.

like be quick but don't be in a hurry. You will miss things. Um

You will miss things. Um you know it's it's it's it's it's the

you know it's it's it's it's it's the Lego set, man. And you sit there and you

Lego set, man. And you sit there and you get in a rush. You don't read the

get in a rush. You don't read the directions. You get to the end and

directions. You get to the end and you've got 12 pieces left and you're

you've got 12 pieces left and you're like [ __ ] Because you got in a hurry.

like [ __ ] Because you got in a hurry. You got ahead of time instead of just

You got ahead of time instead of just that feeling of I've checked out what I

that feeling of I've checked out what I need to do and it's all adding up and

need to do and it's all adding up and this thing's built right and the

this thing's built right and the foundation right and boom, there's the

foundation right and boom, there's the last piece. It fits. Voila. Was with

last piece. It fits. Voila. Was with time. time's on our side. It's not an

time. time's on our side. It's not an enemy. The end, death is not the enemy.

enemy. The end, death is not the enemy. I do believe that part of, you know, not

I do believe that part of, you know, not in a rush to get there and we can stave

in a rush to get there and we can stave it. We want to stave it off sometimes

it. We want to stave it off sometimes and that it can be a screaming fight and

and that it can be a screaming fight and partially denial can help us get there.

partially denial can help us get there. I understand that. But still, it's on

I understand that. But still, it's on our side. It's going to happen. And

our side. It's going to happen. And since it's going to happen

since it's going to happen and there's that's non-negotiable,

and there's that's non-negotiable, might as well go

might as well go Well, I'm not going to rush to try and

Well, I'm not going to rush to try and make more of it than there is. I want to

make more of it than there is. I want to try and spend the time I got as well as

try and spend the time I got as well as I can produce,

I can produce, succeed, achieve, whatever those things

succeed, achieve, whatever those things are, but also

are, but also at a pace that

at a pace that I'm me that I that I that I like I like

I'm me that I that I that I like I like the dance to. I I like the give and the

the dance to. I I like the give and the take. I like the reverb. I like the the

take. I like the reverb. I like the the the the cause and effect of how things

the the cause and effect of how things are happening at this pace.

are happening at this pace. How are we orienting ourselves now since

How are we orienting ourselves now since time is speeding up so much faster with

time is speeding up so much faster with AI? I want to ask you this with AI and I

AI? I want to ask you this with AI and I mean this this is an objective question

mean this this is an objective question with AI with all these podcasts with all

with AI with all these podcasts with all these wealth of information that people

these wealth of information that people can get at all times and no one's

can get at all times and no one's listening to music anymore. They're

listening to music anymore. They're listening to everybody talk about this

listening to everybody talk about this and reading up in this and they're

and reading up in this and they're finding out the answers and in 10

finding out the answers and in 10 seconds that would have taken them 10

seconds that would have taken them 10 days to get before.

days to get before. Do people sound smarter to you?

Do people sound smarter to you? No,

No, >> me neither.

>> me neither. It'll sound dumber.

It'll sound dumber. I do think so. We're talking about sign.

I do think so. We're talking about sign. If everything's significant, nothing's

If everything's significant, nothing's significant at all. I do think that I I

significant at all. I do think that I I I talked to people that feel like

I talked to people that feel like they're hyperly punching their

they're hyperly punching their information. Absolutely [ __ ] great.

information. Absolutely [ __ ] great. Just splashing out, but I'm going walk,

Just splashing out, but I'm going walk, dude. What What was the theme there? Did

dude. What What was the theme there? Did you have a bass guitar in your band? You

you have a bass guitar in your band? You need a bass guitar or at least somebody

need a bass guitar or at least somebody on percussion hold it down because I

on percussion hold it down because I didn't hear the theme. I didn't hear the

didn't hear the theme. I didn't hear the thread. It was digits.

thread. It was digits. Where was the soul in that story? Which

Where was the soul in that story? Which goes back to the quality with the

goes back to the quality with the quantity, the quantity of information.

quantity, the quantity of information. But can we have the soul in it to where

But can we have the soul in it to where ah I hear the rhyme. Ah, there's rhyme

ah I hear the rhyme. Ah, there's rhyme to that those digits. There's rhyme to

to that those digits. There's rhyme to those facts. Oh, I see how they add up.

those facts. Oh, I see how they add up. Oh, but what if you put them in this

Oh, but what if you put them in this order? Ah, they add up to another thing.

order? Ah, they add up to another thing. Or actually, they may add up to the same

Or actually, they may add up to the same damn thing. Interesting. Now I've got a

damn thing. Interesting. Now I've got a rhyme. Now there's a song. That happens

rhyme. Now there's a song. That happens when time's on your side and you're

when time's on your side and you're looking at it. And I still offer I open

looking at it. And I still offer I open that up without complacency. Like start

that up without complacency. Like start now. That doesn't mean time's on my

now. That doesn't mean time's on my side. Yeah, dude. Inchah.

side. Yeah, dude. Inchah. >> When it happens, it'll happen. No. Like,

>> When it happens, it'll happen. No. Like, wake up.

wake up. Clock's ticking. It's on your side now.

Clock's ticking. It's on your side now. Just move with it. Dance with it. Put

Just move with it. Dance with it. Put some soul with the the facts.

Matthew McConnA. Ladies and gentlemen, dude, you're great. You're so fantastic.

dude, you're great. You're so fantastic. Super fun talking to you. Do it for

Super fun talking to you. Do it for hours. Did we just do that for an hour

hours. Did we just do that for an hour or so?

or so? >> Uh, two in a bit.

>> Uh, two in a bit. >> Did we really? Yeah. Again, it flies. It

>> Did we really? Yeah. Again, it flies. It flies when you're having fun. Uh, new

flies when you're having fun. Uh, new book,

book, >> Points of Prayers.

>> Points of Prayers. >> That's it. Some belief, not just belief

>> That's it. Some belief, not just belief in God, but think it's in short supply.

in God, but think it's in short supply. And I think more of us need it. And if

And I think more of us need it. And if we don't have more of it, doubt's going

we don't have more of it, doubt's going to win. If doubt wins, we're all going

to win. If doubt wins, we're all going to lose. And uh, we got stuff out there

to lose. And uh, we got stuff out there to believe in. I think people are

to believe in. I think people are looking for it. I know I am. And uh uh I

looking for it. I know I am. And uh uh I think it's a something we need. I know

think it's a something we need. I know something I need. And then I'm enjoying

something I need. And then I'm enjoying talking about it. I'm kind of saying

talking about it. I'm kind of saying this is sort of therapeutic, spiritual

this is sort of therapeutic, spiritual therapy for me cuz I'm getting to talk

therapy for me cuz I'm getting to talk about it. I'm getting to talk with smart

about it. I'm getting to talk with smart people about it. I'm getting questioned

people about it. I'm getting questioned about it. I'm getting to repeat some of

about it. I'm getting to repeat some of it. So it's even becoming mantric for

it. So it's even becoming mantric for me.

me. >> Um and then I'm going to go put a lot of

>> Um and then I'm going to go put a lot of this to music when I hit the road. Got

this to music when I hit the road. Got some great musicians coming out to join

some great musicians coming out to join me on stage and they're playing scores

me on stage and they're playing scores behind some of my reads. It's going to

behind some of my reads. It's going to be fun. Unreal.

be fun. Unreal. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. thousand episodes. Thank you for joining

thousand episodes. Thank you for joining me. It's a really special one.

me. It's a really special one. >> You're welcome. My pleasure.

>> You're welcome. My pleasure. >> So,

>> So, you're a Astrian connoisseur. Yeah.

you're a Astrian connoisseur. Yeah. >> So, the originals, this is the first

>> So, the originals, this is the first time that I know of that that they

time that I know of that that they partnered.

partnered. >> I think it was somebody based out of San

>> I think it was somebody based out of San Francisco and they said, "Hey, let's

Francisco and they said, "Hey, let's modernize it up just a hair." So, these

modernize it up just a hair." So, these were new. This was a new design.

were new. This was a new design. Um just a little waiter. This is the one

Um just a little waiter. This is the one original one I had. I called it the

original one I had. I called it the canoe.

canoe. And that's the one that I managed on the

And that's the one that I managed on the road for about 3 years.

road for about 3 years. >> When I think it was early 2000s,

>> When I think it was early 2000s, >> okay,

>> okay, >> it was me and my dog just traveling

>> it was me and my dog just traveling around. And if you and I are meeting a

around. And if you and I are meeting a director or someone to work to meet, I'd

director or someone to work to meet, I'd be like,

be like, >> "What? Next Tuesday? Let me see. Man,

>> "What? Next Tuesday? Let me see. Man, I'm heading Albuquerque. I'm kind of

I'm heading Albuquerque. I'm kind of moving this direction, too. flying to

moving this direction, too. flying to Albuquerque airport. I'll pick you up at

Albuquerque airport. I'll pick you up at 9:00 in the morning. And then how about

9:00 in the morning. And then how about if I'm driving that direction, I'll drop

if I'm driving that direction, I'll drop you off in Lincoln, Nebraska. How about,

you off in Lincoln, Nebraska. How about, you know, 6:00 that night, you get the

you know, 6:00 that night, you get the 6:00 out of Lincoln. We'd have our

6:00 out of Lincoln. We'd have our meeting on the road while I was pulling

meeting on the road while I was pulling the Airstream.

the Airstream. >> And every one of those meetings was a

>> And every one of those meetings was a great meeting.

great meeting. >> It was like, yeah. And everybody was

>> It was like, yeah. And everybody was like, some people stayed the night and

like, some people stayed the night and all my meetings. That's when we had a

all my meetings. That's when we had a Blackberry, not not the phones you have

Blackberry, not not the phones you have now, but I was all over North America in

now, but I was all over North America in this. And I took this out, built my own

this. And I took this out, built my own table in Louisiana with a carpenter.

table in Louisiana with a carpenter. I got given a paddle. The reason it's

I got given a paddle. The reason it's called a canoe is I had this I stayed

called a canoe is I had this I stayed with the Indian Squamish Nation Indian

with the Indian Squamish Nation Indian Reservation in Vancouver working on a

Reservation in Vancouver working on a film too for the money.

film too for the money. And on that reservation

And on that reservation there was a paparazzi that had moved in

there was a paparazzi that had moved in >> and he was like, you know, hiding behind

>> and he was like, you know, hiding behind trees on in the in the trailer park. And

trees on in the in the trailer park. And it's the Squamish Nation in your

it's the Squamish Nation in your reservation is their private property.

reservation is their private property. The chief's name, no [ __ ] was Mike

The chief's name, no [ __ ] was Mike Hunt. Chief Mike Hunt went to and his

Hunt. Chief Mike Hunt went to and his brothers went to this guy and said, "You

brothers went to this guy and said, "You are not welcome here." He's like, "It's

are not welcome here." He's like, "It's free contract. Stay away." Goes, "No,

free contract. Stay away." Goes, "No, no, no. If you're disturbing someone in

no, no. If you're disturbing someone in our tribe or making them any way

our tribe or making them any way uncomfortable, you're out." They kicked

uncomfortable, you're out." They kicked him out. The guy got the boot for just

him out. The guy got the boot for just taking pictures. And I would they would

taking pictures. And I would they would catch I had ribe eyes, right? And they

catch I had ribe eyes, right? And they would catch their co- salmon in shopping

would catch their co- salmon in shopping carts down the river, set up the rocks

carts down the river, set up the rocks where it would funnel the salmon into

where it would funnel the salmon into the shopping cart. They'd come up with

the shopping cart. They'd come up with the fresh salmon and I would trade them

the fresh salmon and I would trade them cooked ribe eyes for their salmon. It

cooked ribe eyes for their salmon. It was our barter. And he gave me the

was our barter. And he gave me the paddle when I left. He said, "In our

paddle when I left. He said, "In our nation, as we travel the rivers, the ore

nation, as we travel the rivers, the ore >> is the the compass,

>> is the the compass, >> the rudder for our canoe, and as you

>> the rudder for our canoe, and as you travel the rivers, highway rivers of

travel the rivers, highway rivers of North America, may this keep you in your

North America, may this keep you in your powerful."

powerful." >> Yeah,

>> Yeah, >> that's sick. Uh, well, you might not

>> that's sick. Uh, well, you might not have noticed, but there's uh balloons

have noticed, but there's uh balloons because this is episode 1,000 today.

because this is episode 1,000 today. >> Oh, all right.

>> Oh, all right. >> You are episode 1,000 on this show.

>> You are episode 1,000 on this show. >> Come on.

>> Come on. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Yeah,

>> All right. Yeah, >> look at that.

>> look at that. >> I know. But let's get going. Let's get

>> I know. But let's get going. Let's get started.

started. >> Love it.

>> Love it. >> Yeah, man.

>> Yeah, man. >> Thank you very much for tuning in.

>> Thank you very much for tuning in. Usually I have something to sell you uh

Usually I have something to sell you uh typically another episode uh at the end

typically another episode uh at the end of episodes. Uh but that is 1,000

of episodes. Uh but that is 1,000 episodes of Modern Wisdom, the end of

episodes of Modern Wisdom, the end of the first millennium.

the first millennium. And uh getting to do it again with

And uh getting to do it again with Matthew here on this video wall thing is

Matthew here on this video wall thing is uh really cool and beautiful and it's

uh really cool and beautiful and it's very meaningful to me. And doing a

very meaningful to me. And doing a thousand episodes of anything, doing a

thousand episodes of anything, doing a thousand of anything at all is a pretty

thousand of anything at all is a pretty big ask. Um if it wasn't for the fact

big ask. Um if it wasn't for the fact that they were all numbered and I'd

that they were all numbered and I'd recorded them, I would have imagined

recorded them, I would have imagined that it was closer to 300 or 400. So

that it was closer to 300 or 400. So I've just compressed down time over the

I've just compressed down time over the last 7 and a half years. Uh, but I want

last 7 and a half years. Uh, but I want to say thank you very much for uh

to say thank you very much for uh following me, for supporting the show.

following me, for supporting the show. Uh, obviously this has been a labor of

Uh, obviously this has been a labor of love. So, as much as I whine and

love. So, as much as I whine and complain um about how tired I am, uh I

complain um about how tired I am, uh I wouldn't change it for anything else. I

wouldn't change it for anything else. I don't want to do anything at 2:23 p.m.

don't want to do anything at 2:23 p.m. on a Thursday in the middle of Texas,

on a Thursday in the middle of Texas, then sit down and have this

then sit down and have this conversation. So, thank you for joining

conversation. So, thank you for joining me and uh here's to another thousand.

me and uh here's to another thousand. All right.

All right. See you next time.

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