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Anh Phoong: Multimillion-Dollar Billboard Campaign, Representing Asian Women In Law | Dregs One | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Anh Phoong: Multimillion-Dollar Billboard Campaign, Representing Asian Women In Law
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[Music]
what up everybody this is dregs one
welcome to another episode of the
history of the bay podcast sponsored by
the get people of amoa Music San
Francisco also got to give a shout out
to our sponsors HP farms and stem social
behind the boards we got do behind the
lens we got King said got to give a
shout out to the hom girl pris in the
house today and we got another legendary
guest this is the history of the bay we
cover all angles of Bay Area culture we
got one of the most diverse places in
the world and we got to represent it
properly across all avenues not just
hip-hop not just graffiti but the law
and if you've been unless you've been
under a rock you've seen this guest in
some shape form or fashion on a
billboard on a bus at at a Giants game
on the internet I mean she has been
uh becoming a Bay Area icon and as we're
going to learn it's not just about her
marketing she actually fiercely
represents for her clients and you know
who it is if something's wrong you got
to call and phone hi thanks for having
me thanks for saying it's so good too of
course of course thank you for coming
through we were abolutely we had this in
the works for a while I know I'm excited
I'm very pleased that this came together
because um as we're talking about
offline uh it's for you it's not just
marketing you actually have really built
your business in an inspiring way and I
think there's a lot that we could talk
about yes thank you well I always start
at the very beginning so for those who
don't know um maybe tell everybody uh
where you grew up I was actually born in
San Jose okay yeah okay 408 yeah 408 and
I came to Sacramento moved to Sacramento
when I was about nine or 10 got you and
then spent um grew up there most of my
childhood and adulthood there Northern
California Northern California race yeah
and uh what about your family uh what's
their story so my parents
are were born in Vietnam but they're
ethnically Chinese uhuh so we're Chinese
folks that lived in Vietnam and you know
1979 and so my I have five siblings well
five um and my two my older two older
ones a brother and sister were born in
Vietnam and so my parents came and then
had me and my other siblings so I have
like a pretty traditional immigrant like
family story you know the one that says
that we came on a boat with nothing you
know nothing but the shirts on our back
and that's the story my parents have
always told us and um it's the truth of
the story right they really coming on
boats and coming to America um to live
the American dream and so we grew up
like so many immigrants with nothing and
un medical you know no money and my
parents didn't know English uh very kind
of typical journey and it was honestly I
think that I get asked a lot like where
where does all this drive and where do
you get this from and it's it's from
them I mean like can you imagine like
coming to another country don't know a
word you don't even know you have no
help you have no trade you don't know
how to communicate and trying to survive
and that's what my parents did they
hustled they hustled they learned a
trade and learned English and you know
they they killed it honestly like and
they did hard labor my my dad's
background um he does landscaping and
he's like 73 and still works to this day
he doesn't have to but he you know they
just want to work so I think that's
where a lot of my work ethic and my
drive come from is and I think a lot of
immigrants you know having that same
background like L of opportunity I want
to make my parents proud and um make
sure that I do good by them wow yeah
that's very impressive and um was like
education something that was a high
priority in your household yeah just
like the typical you know Asian parents
you know they want you to be a doctor
and lawyer and of course at that time it
was just like whatever like I wasn't
seriously thinking about being a lawyer
like I didn't really seriously think
about being being a lore until my late
like almost my 20s you know so um I went
through life knowing that my parents
were forcing me to go to college but I
didn't know what I wanted to do I
couldn't I didn't have a passion but I
was like what am I going to do like I
graduated high school and I went
straight to Community College I did that
and then I went to saak State and I
still didn't know what I wanted to do
but I was like I got to pick a major now
right what am I going to do well you
know what's safe and what's kind of easy
and so I picked business so as was a
business maj major and then um as I was
almost finishing my major just I was
like I can't do this this is boring this
is not me this is not what I want to do
and so one of my general education
courses I had to fulfill I picked
criminal justice and then that's when it
like ding ding ding like the lights
started turning on and I was like
fascinated by by the concept of it our
justice system and going to school was
entirely different then when you when
you want to learn the subject right and
when you care about what you're reading
and learning like you're into it right
it doesn't feel like oh my God I have to
do this I was excited and so um that's
how I kind of got into criminal justice
I wanted to be a criminal lawyer I
wanted to be a defense lawyer oh okay I
was I was hoping you weren't going to say
say
prosecutor no no I actually uh no no no
no just just just from what we've been
through yeah you know um and I worked at
the public defender office uhhuh in
Sacramento in salano County 7 County for
six years and and I did that while I
went to law school wow so uh change you
decided that I wanted to be a lawyer
started watching you know like Law and
Order and all that stuff they make t
just being a lawyer is so badass and I
was like I want to be that person in
court fighting for people I wanted to
fight for the people that didn't have
money and I wanted to fight for the
people that needed the help but didn't
have the ability to do it so that's why
being um a public defender was actually
my goal my end goal like finishing law
school I didn't know what personal
injury was or anything I was was like
I'm going to I'm going to do this I'm
going to help these people and um
working in my office I I 100% the day I
graduate I still thought I was going to
be a public defender so was that like
com of coming out of some of your own
experiences or things you had witnessed
growing up with the criminal justice
system yeah we grew up poor we had no
represent there there's no one to
represent us my brother's got in trouble
my brother oldest brother is the reason
why we moved to Sacramento um he was in
and out of jie and you know we had
people help along the way and and then
the people that helped us treat us
treated us like like people right they
didn't treat us any different they just
wanted to help us and so I just I just
remember my parents um the way that we
grew up was in especially in the Asian
culture to in the background it was like
oh leave it don't complain don't do
nothing over you know we're we're in
America this is not our home and we've
got to be quiet and it's like so they
just hush hush about a lot of stuff
didn't voice anything and for them it
was easier just to like pick up and move
to another another city and that's what
we did was kind of leave that behind and
I think it worked my brother turned out
good oh that's your
up yeah I mean uh that sense of advocacy
is really important and a lot of people
don't have that um yeah one reason I was
excited to have you on is because
there's a few parallels between my own
story as I mentioned I haven't talked
about this much on the podcast but for
those who don't know everyone's excited
to hear about this I know I was yeah I
have a lot ask you questions okay no we
can flip we can do a little back and
forth no go ahead tell your story first
yeah I have a law degree as well so a
similar path um for me I didn't do very
well in high school didn't really know
what I wanted to do I come from graffiti
and Hip Hop and uh on the side working
with youth programs but similar story
went to City College eventually like 10
years later after dropping out a few
times made it San Francisco State and
then made it into uh law school at UC
Davis where I graduated past the bar
practice for a few years uh decided it
wasn't quite for me um have stick to my
original Passion of the Arts and
creativity but um still the skills that
I learned are kind of carrying me
through this phase my career so I'm
really interested to uh hear your side
of the story because like I said there's
a lot that I relate to and um the idea
of like you said the lawyer on TV strong
Advocate I got in trouble as a juvenile
too who I could have used a good lawyer
here and there um so yeah I'm just
excited to like have this this dialogue
this episode of the history of the bay
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this episode of history of the bay is
brought to you by TPP in partnership
with lost soul Courier Collective
last year over 800 people in San
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is a serious problem that affects our
entire Community I've personally lost
several friends to overdoses and many of
us know people who have been impacted we
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Tracy h415 on Instagram or visit lost
soul Courier collective.org you can also
get the links in the description of the
episode so when you said so you you went
from graduating
undergrad and then you went into um
working with the public defenders MH
yeah so that was like an intern
externship you know I was a legal
secretary for the first few years and
then when I you know when you get into
law school you could apply for
internship and get credit so then my
third year I interned while I worked as
a legal secretary was doing misdemeanor
just arrangments and stuff and um you
know the reason why I'm not a public defender
defender
today um two reasons number one was
honestly like I said I I thought I was
going to be one they they wouldn't hire
me when I when passed the bar what yeah
after 6 years of being there I thought I
was going to you know um County
understanding right like what I'm going
to be you know I've been I've been
working here and then um it was during a
bad time there's a hiring freeze 200 um
200 what was it
2011 and the county wasn't hiring and so
I was like what am I going to do right
but the second reason I think that you
know well by chance like I'm not a
public defender was looking at all the
cases that we took cuz I was a felony
secretary so you know that's everything
from like the murderers and the robbers
and and I was fine with that like going
through those files I was fine I was I
could defend this person I have I know
exactly what I would say what most but
then what I couldn't do was I could not defend
defend
the child molesters that is crazy that
she said that because I had an interview
with the AL County public defenders
office and they offer me the job on the
spot this is my first year law school
and they're like we're going to put you
with the Predators and this was like a
program where it was
basically uh advocating for them after
they completed their sentence they
transitioned to like a halfway house
mental health facility and basically
helping them prepare the applications to
go back into society and I was like
ready to just all right let's see but
that's one things people don't realize
about public defenders or just the
criminal justice side on both sides any
side of it whether you're even I mean
going through it on the judge whatever
it's like that's a lot every day to like
take that kind of work home with you and
read those files and read the statements
and look at the photos and all that type
of stuff couldn't do it I for I me I you
know I I I so I would do is force myself
to handle those those files and it just
made you know I just felt really just it
was hard and I I have so much respect
for the public defenders I can do that
cuz they're great people right there's
but somebody's got to do it somebody's
got to do it these people still have
rights and they still you know right so
um but I just that was the one thing
that in the end I was like can I do this
and would I be any good if I said I can
only help people with these kind of
crimes but not not this type of criminal
right that's kind of like where I feel
like um
everything happens for reason right so I
I didn't get into being a public
defender there's also like a lot of
questions too of doing that work of like
what do we actually what works for these
situations is incarceration I mean
that's such a challenging area of the
law that yeah yeah it's hard especially
even you know I didn't have kids then
right I have kids now so I there's
there's just no way I can do that and I
know that about myself now like 100%
like I I just wouldn't you know be able
to so um it's there's a different path
you know that that was meant for me to
do yeah for sure so going back to even
like the application process to law
school did you cast cuz so for those who
don't know this might be interesed for
people who are who are pursuing their
education is that it's all based on
standardized test scores the the L the
elsat um if you get if the higher the
score you get the more schools you get
into the more financial age y you're
eligible for um it's a really intense
process I think I studied I don't I
don't know I studied
like I'll tell you offline you scor good
enough you got into UC Davis I did I did
pretty good did pretty good um but it
was a lot of work I had to I had to
study like like a full-time job oh yeah
put everything else on the side for like
a few months yeah to take that test um
now at that time did you have in mind
that you wanted to you know go to a
school like you to David what did you
have a goal yeah yeah I was like on some
like uh like I'll show you type of stuff
cuz I was such a bad student yeah and
then by the time I graduated from
undergrad I was like straight a killing
it super act and I had some really cool
mentors for the first time I had like
black male teachers which I never had
growing up and um they kind of put me on
the game of how to go to grad school and
stuff like that um so I was like I'll
show you Harvard
Columbia wow that's awesome which I
didn't get to I got recruited by some of
those schools but um that's amazing yeah
it didn't end up going to the ivy league
but you see Davis I believe at the time
I got in there it was like top 20 law
school no small feet shout out to UC
Davis School
law um but for you was that like similar
you had to just kind of Bunker down
study I did I did it all wrong so it was
like last minute like I I'm going to law
school and I'm just going to I got oh I
got to take this else acting what is
this and so I really wasn't serious
about it and um you know I was partying
a lot right so and this is where like
it's kind of funny now I have all my
friends back then um that I used to
party with and they're like what
happened ever since I started going La
school was like bye right cuz you had to
take Stu seriously so I kind of half-ass
it and I wish I would have you know took
it more seriously right but I I didn't
even take a course bought a book did a
bunch of questions I don't even think I
studied for two weeks
that's the reason why I completely
failed like failed um it's so hard
though like people should know that that
test is
incredibly yeah even if you're really
smart and you did well in other schools
that it's not meting comprehensive type
of question those logic games it's it's
no it's like no time it's time based and
so I I failed that like failed like can
you imagine just writing your name and
like just closing your eyes that's what
I did pretty much and so um so I failed
and so I it was already out of the
question I couldn't I knew that my score
was so low I couldn't even get to
any school like UC Davis or even MC
George and so I was looking at my
options and I found a school called
Lincoln law school of California it's a
California bar a California credited
school which is different than an ABA
school which is the American Bar
accredited so it's uh only in California
right and you can only practice in
California and I knew I wasn't going to
leave California so I was like okay well
I just need to get into a law school and
then take the damn bar right so I don't
care where I go um so I applied there
and they were like even the dean on
there right so this is you know a school
that takes below you know lower scores
and um I interview with that Dean and he
was like are you kidding me he's like I
mean we got low standards but even we
can't take you and I I remember that so
vividly I cried I was like what do you
mean like thought you guys don't care
about these LS scores like we don't but
this is like we can't do this and so um
it broke my heart cuz I I mean I kind of
knew it was a long shot right but I felt
like I had a chance so he told me the
dean told me that you need to improve
your score if you're really serious
about law school you're going to take
the next one and you're going to improve
your score by
25% 25% to get to their minimum okay so
that's how low my score was it's a big
jump yeah no I it was bad like I said I
wasn't I didn't give it my all for sure
um and so then you know for a moment I
walked out of there I was like you know
what [ __ ] this I'm not going to be a
lawyer like this is just this is hurt
you like forget it you know what can I
do you know I've got a criminal justice
major right what can I do and and then I
just did some soul searching and I
realized okay well you know what just
this is what you really want an and just
study your ass off this time and you
know take it again so I spent my next
couple months studying taking a legit
course and really applying myself and
learning how to answer those questions
the best question I mean the best answer
for those questions and um I ended up
scoring 27% better so I went and applied
and got in and then um and my plea to
him the dean that day when he told me no
was I was like hey I am not the smartest
girl especially on these standard TI
like these ABC I can't do that but I'll
tell you what like if hard work means
anything I will work my ass
and um he laughed you know and kind of
like you was like well I'm going to show
you right and so he actually the dean
was also a professor and so um when I
finished law school I was the valoran of
my class nice yeah so um and it just you
know felt good it kind of like ha haa to
you right any any naysayers anyone that
didn't believe in me in that time um but
no it wasn't by all means I don't think
being smart has anything to do with it
like you just have to you have to know
how to take that test you have to hustle
you have to put in the work right and if
you put in the work then you'll learn
the method then you'll pass but I don't
think it's being smart right yeah and I
was going to ask too did you did you
have any
mentors not not during that time I
didn't know I first in my family to be a
lawyer and um no no one show to pay the
way yeah cuz I I think one thing that's
really interesting about your story and
inspiring is um
I mean the representation of Asian women
in the legal field is really low I mean
if you look at the statistics all
minorities black indigenous Latin Asian
very highly underrepresented in law it's
a very elitist yeah industry um that's
the other thing about this conversation
is bringing me back this is why I don't
do it anymore because that elitism of
like oh I went to Harvard or like you
know you really meet these types of people
people
where did you go Lincoln you see
Davis uh and you know it's hard too
being for me I was in um school with
people who are all used to being the
smartest person in the room people who
are like like I said ivy league students
like I was top of my class here I was
this I did that I went to the best
private schools I'm like man I went to
ghetto ass High School like I didn't I
don't have none of you belong all the
time yeah I felt like an alien yeah yeah
um so it was very challenging um so but
I did meet along the way like I was part
of like the black law students union and
I was able to meet like uh judges yeah
um practicing
attorneys um teachers who were like
really giving me a lot of encouragement
so that's why I asked about mentorship
too yeah yeah no I mean like there was
obviously along the way then you know
people started realizing oh she's
serious and I'm going to do this um and
and so like I said like prior to that I
was I was kind of in a partying phase
and so I kind of understand why people
wouldn't take me serious right cuz I I
don't know how serious I took myself as
well right um but yeah no um now my
youngest brother you know he's 12 years
younger than me so he's seen me go
through that so he's lucky he's he has
me as his mentor so I really wish I
would have had someone else in my life
that's kind of like hey show me the way
and this is what you do but we got you
know there's something to be said about
figuring out on your own right
and obvious help along the way but
there's something in that struggle right
yeah I think at some point I kind of do
maybe we can talk about this I want to
do create some type of pipeline for
absolutely students of color and
students from lower income backgrounds
to figure out like how do you take the
LSAT how do you do the application love
that kind of stuff I would love to do
that yeah we might have to talk about
that offline yeah um but yeah no that's
awesome so I mean I feel like that's why
it is important know for what you've done
done
because I'm sure like you mentioned your
brother I'm sure there's other people
out there who are seeing you now and
being like well if she can do it then so
can I so sometimes you have to be that
Pioneer to to be the first one and also
I feel like you know law the law is so
hard and law school is so hard it's not
like any other classroom curriculum so I
don't really care where you went because
I think just going and and passing and
completing and passing the bar the
hardest bar in the nation the hardest
bar in California and we have to keep
lowering the scores for people to pass
to get a higher pass rate so to you for
for being able to do that cuz it's it's
it's and then you know what it's funny
like all the these people the snoody IV
League people it's like we sit together
I sit next to you yeah I'm sitting next
to you and I pass just like you did yeah
yeah so how much better was you like your
your
education I mean you can say I mean
maybe it was better but we took the same
test so that's what didn't matter to me
I was like if I could pass it and the
next person who went to Harvard pass it
like how are we any different right no
there's people from Stanford Harvard all
these top schools that fail absolutely
cuz it's not easy no there's no shame in
that either because it's so challenging
um was it was it hard for you to pass
the bar you know I was excessive and by
that time I already knew my study habits
and I was 100% % all in in every you
know I Grew Older too right and then
when you get older and then like I said
a lot of the drive had come like from
knowing what I wanted to do and how bad
I wanted to be a lawyer after everything
I gone through um I was that person that
studied 16 to 20 hours like I I just
studied yeah and ere excessively I mean
and and and even though I knew it like I
still studied so I felt really good
going in um but not good enough to say
it out loud like I think pass but I felt
like I was going to pass I didn't say
nothing um and so when I did pass I mean
it was surprising but it wasn't right
like you kind of you you kind of feel
good about it and um so that that
feeling of of passing was just it was
amazing I I knew it but it's nice to
know cuz the when we did it back then
when did you graduate or when did you
take 2019 2019 okay so when I took it in
um 2011 it was really weird that that
you would have to type your name in the system
system
and then you type it and then it's in
red it said you are on the list but when
you see red you're like danger right so
I'm like wait what am I on the past list
or not cuz I all I did was see red so it
it was um funny moment that um I always
remember yeah that is such a relief
because it's like it's like being at War
where you're seeing somebody just fall
down oh I failed oh she's like oh I
passed I made oh I failed you're like oh
damn what's going to happen yeah um but
that's amazing that you went through all
these different stages from your
beginning as a child the immigrants to
going through City uh your community
college to undergrad to law school to
passing the bar so that so is that when
you went to the public defender office
after you had the bar I was doing that
together I was in law school working
full-time at the public defenders office
office in in in in um Fairfield in
Vallejo and I would drive back to school
three nights a week and so it's
full-time job right yeah um for four
years and so when I had passed the bar I
was like hey I'm ready for and they were
like uh no sorry we don't have a
position for you and I was like okay so
what what am I going to do I didn't have
a plan B like I really was that was my
plan was I went to law to be a public
defender and so um so when I left the
office um one of my friends was
practicing impersonal injury and I was
like hey I could use some help you know
and I was like I don't know man I don't
know if I have the I have to do
something that number one helps people
right and I have to have the passion for
it because I I didn't do all this just
to do something I don't love to do and
so what I had realized was during dur
working with him we were advocating for
people right like on the plaintiff side
as a personal injury lawyer you're
advocating for people who are injured
from an accident right and that
satisfied my need in terms of wanting
like public service and the reason of
becoming a lawyer was to to help people
right so I found it um pretty similar
and I was like I think I could do this
and I I I worked alongside with him for
a little less than a year and I was like
friend but he wasn't the greatest okay
and I was like if he can have a law
firm I'm better than him I could do a
better job than him um me like as a
lawyer as a lawyer and having a law firm
because it was yeah SOLO practitioner
and um I was like if he could do it
there's no reason why I can't do it
right cuz he he you know didn't come he
didn't get money to start a firm and I
was just watching I was like why can't I
do it and I don't think I even allowed
myself to dream big enough to be someone
who owned or had to own Law Firm you
know it was always in my mind kind of
like my parents you know know like oh
you you you know you go through life and
you work you get a paycheck and blah
blah blah right and they always wanted
us to do good but owning and starting my
own practice was I mean something I
thought like okay maybe in 10 15 years
after you know being public having
experience not right off the bat right
so but because I didn't have a job and I
tried I applied I was trying to get jobs
I mean I couldn't get a job I could not
get a job and I don't know if it's
because of the school I went to the lack
of experience
right um I mean it's hard for every
anybody yeah yeah and um that's another
hurdle of this whole you're like yeah I
passed the bar it's going to rain and
then you're like I got to get a job and
you know Suddenly It's it's hard right
they don't tell you about that in law
school right it's like it's cool it's
everyone's dream you want to go to law
school you pass the bar get a great job
but that's not always easy getting the
job yeah and so I couldn't get a job I
worked with my friend and I was like you
know what I think I think I'm going to
do it
and and I was like you know shoot what
do I got to lose right and so
um I I opened the practice like the next
next month that is crazy yeah I mean no
is crazy like cuz you know we did it
with like nothing right I mean like I my
husband I met him in law school he's not
a lawyer but you know he's you know he's
by my side and so I at law school or
during law school during law school so
he was not a law student yeah yeah yeah
so sorry he was a a classmate or no he
was a classmate okay but he decided not
to practice no he he couldn't practice
cuz he could he's one of those that
failed the bar yeah yeah yeah um so
that's all right still got a nice yeah
yeah I still got JD and um so you know
we we you know we kind of thought hey
why not like you're you're you're work
just as hard as him if not harder why
why can't you do this and um so okay
let's do it and so we started the law
office of an F in our bedroom in our
spare bedroom and um we didn't advertise
no money to advertise all we did was
tell our friends and family hey anyone
get injured call me right and um and and
sure enough our friends and family
started getting injured really weird you
know and people were getting into
accidents and so our business kind of
like started self-funding itself because
um people were just getting in accidents
and then slowly and then obviously then
by then we started to
Network and shake hands and realize that
you know you have to go out and shake
hands and meet people how are you going
to get clients if you don't advertise so
this the other crazy part though is
someone who practiced law for a while I
got into I don't want to say the name of
the law fir but like and I'm not trying
to flex but I got into like a top
topnotch worldwide law firm with like
you know hundreds of lawyers working for
it um to top clients name brand blue
chip stock client corporate clients
and the amount like I didn't have no
idea what to do I had they had to tell
me do this and do that and there's some
basic stuff from law school but law
school doesn't prepare you to work h no
it don't so you're on the plaintiff's
side filing lawsuits on behalf of your
clients are you like just looking
through like the Reuters guide like how
do I do this sorry right I got to follow
lawsuit I guess I should send out some
interrogatories now yeah and just how do
I respond to their interrogatories are
you just teaching yourself I mean so in
the beginning yeah so I had my friends
and I had a couple other lawyers that I
knew and I would just asking for help I
me I was not too proud to ask for help
um because obviously you know as a
lawyer if you have to be confident
enough to represent your clients I knew
that I did I I would I I knew enough and
when we started litigating um if there
was ever an issue I'd be the first one
you know I had no problem learning the
law applying it and getting the help
that I need so um that was never really
an issue but you know it is a little
scary cuz then my first trial was
against a 35y old partner like 35y old
seasoned partner of a law firm against
me and I was on my first I think my
first year year and a half of of being a
lawyer and I was I was scared as [ __ ]
sorry I was scared I did everything and
you know what intimidating hell yeah I
mean he's 65 years old and he's seasoned
around the court and I'm like
you know your first time you're you're
nervous and you're scared and um but I I
I had the heart to fight for my client
and it was it was one of those cases
where if I didn't do it no one else
would do it so it wasn't like there was
options you know um but still I wanted
to do good and um I
remember when I met that lawyer on the
other side I was like this prick and he
was ended up being really really good to
me and nice like during out the
litigation proc process um and at the
very end when I gave my closing
statement she shook my hand at the end
you know behind closed doors we're
waiting for a verdict he said you did an
amazing job for your first time and of
course I tried to pretend like it wasn't
my first time I was like pretending like
I've done this before but he knew you
know our bar
numbers he was like a a a 87 or you know
yeah yeah yeah yeah so I was going up
against him and um and and just to have
him kind of give me credit it meant a
lot you you know and he was like you're
going to you're going to do very well um
oh I lost that Tri but he knew he kicked
my ass he kicked my ass on rebuttal oh
man like I thought I did good and then
when he went I was like [ __ ] and I just
you know um but yeah just to just hear
him kind of give me props on on on it it
it was and also goes to show you that
like even though the nature of our
relationship were against each other you
don't need to be an [ __ ] to your your
your opposing Council yeah and I think
that goes a long way um and what I
learned early on was like you know you
work with the same people in the field
right this it's so small like what is it
1% of lawyers you know 1% of the
population lawyers and you you run into
them like if it's not right now it's the
next case it's the next case so being
nice and cordial and professional goes a
long way versus just being a dick or a
prick CU you can you know there's so
many things that like have happened
during my practice that could have gone
different ways if if it was it you know
if it was hand differently right in
terms of the relationships that I have
with people um so your reputation goes a
long way your word goes a long way so if
I tell if I tell a council hey I need an
extension well yeah they're going to grb
to me because I asked them and I've
given them an extension I've given them
the courtesy um if I say no they're
going to say no to me you know so um I
just think that that in in in the world
that we're in um it it just always pays
off to be nice and to be good like in
general not just in the legal field
right just in general let's be nice to
each other and be good to each other
absolutely yeah I think in any field
like you said um doing being in music
and arts I deal with all types of
personalities and some of these people
are crazy as my viewers know um but also
like when in the law though that's
really important because like you said
it's oppositional you're literally going
against these people and you're going to
see them mhm at one point or the other
and it's like the same faces you see
going up are the same faces you see
coming down so just being cordial and
professional and personable goes a
really long way but this is crazy this
is I'm really glad we're having this
conversation CU I don't think people
understand how much of a self-made woman
you are so you're starting a one person
practice you're going to trial by
yourself yeah no
paralal no se
no couldn't afford that no I wish man
you know it was um like I said it was
but you know that's what I say man like
when you've got to do it yourself it's
just it's a learning lesson and and like
I said I lost I I
cried I I felt like man I'm a shitty
lawyer right I couldn't win this case
and you know I felt so bad for my client
but do you know how much I learned like
from that like man like cuz you have to
get back up bounce back up and it's hard
you know when you fall but you have to
get back up and because you can always
win yeah right so um it's um it's it's a
humbling experience but I think we need
it right for sure yeah at what point did
you feel like you finally got your chops
up like all right I know what I'm doing
now you know after that trial I was
scared you know and I was like what if I
lose again and um but we just I just I
just kept going back and told myself
like well you didn't come a lawyer just
to be a paper pusher right you want to
be in trial you want to be in the
courtroom and so um that's when you know
we we getting a little more more cases
in and like and for a solo practitioner
I was doing pretty good um and um just
forced yourself to go back in the
courtroom again and so when we started
working from our home it was just my
husband and I and then you know started
getting a little more cases okay we kind
of need some help hired my friend hired
his cousin and things were just like not
growing and um next thing you know you
know I have like six employees I'm like
wow like we got a real Law Firm here you
know we got to actually get an office
and so we the first I think two or three
years we were working out of our house
like you know obviously I couldn't
afford rent and then when I finally was
able to we got an office space and um we
just kept growing the business and I got
to the point where this was about five
six years into being on our own where I
had asked myself the question okay is
this it like I could continue being a
solar practitioner and handle you know
hundred something cases um you know is
this what your future is going to be
like is this what you see and that's
when um I don't know if you heard about
the story but like how I started
advertising I think I heard bits and
pieces I I want to get into that but I
have a couple more questions because
that's a big
deal um I was curious too about like
dealing with your clients so personal injury
injury
so that's you're dealing with accidents
work related injury uh any other type of
scenario it's really just um accidents
okay like work rated injuries can be
accident work rated injuries too but
primarily what we do we do like dog
bites and Si and Falls as well like when
you fall at a store or something like
that or a dog bites you but primarily we
do you know uh truck accidents bike
accidents motorcycles
pedestrians um but yeah so our our
clientele the people that we represent
are are people that are hurt right and
not not at their fault like they've done
nothing wrong and it's hard to see that
too because um you know how it is you're
driving you're biing all the rules you're
you're
stopping and then someone else does
something some a douchebag comes you
know does like you know rolls on over
runs over a red light and it's like you
know it's hard cuz these people are
doing the right thing right all the time
and they get the Brent uh the shirt and
the stick
yeah do you ever deal with somebody
sometimes where you're like uh dude
you're not that hurt or like dude that
was your fault oh yeah yeah can't take
your kids yeah there's been a couple of
times people try to like lie to me and
I'm like and if I know you're Li I'm
like wait this doesn't make sense I I
can add this and this smells right bad
and I don't want nothing to do I cannot
I will not represent anybody that's
lying to me or trying to have me lie to
the insurance companies like no we don't
play with that cuz I think with personal
injury right you have the term ambulance
Chaser right and you deal with there are
some sleazy people out there who are
just like hey you know do you want to
make a quick Buck here or let's just uh
put one of those neck things
on let me roll you to the court everyone
I represented has never never done that
um and and I think we do a pretty good
job and there's people who I think have
faked it um but I don't represent them I
would not like I I that's I don't do
that you know we don't we don't need you
know like there's legitimately people
hurting all the time um when you use the
term amance chasing it's you know it's a
negative it's a derogatory derogatory
and I get called out all the time on
social media people call me that and I
always say that it used to bug me a lot
because it it it felt like like you
don't know me right then I don't know
them so they can say whatever they want
right but what I had Learned was that
the are really bad lawyers out there
like you know that that term and
people's experiences you know with bad
lawyers it gives us that name and it's
hard to overcome that so I just try to
do good by me and my clients and um so
it doesn't get it doesn't bother me
anymore because I know you know you know
who you know I know myself I know the
firm I built and I know the reputation
that we've worked really hard to
maintain um I mean of course I'm in this
business to make money I'm I'm not
sitting here like I don't make money and
I mean that's not what I'm saying right
but I'm um I think I think you know it's
very surprising when you try to say a
compassionate personal injy lawyer or
injy lawyer who actually really cares um
because all people think is we care
about is just the dollars I've taken so
many cases for free and I've waved my
fee so many times just because it's the
right thing to do right like so it's not
always just about the money um at the
end of the day it's really about helping
people and I had actually got into
accident myself and that's kind of where
I made the connection and these
insurance companies are dirty they are
dirty in the sense that if they know you
have no lawyer and you could be laid up
in a hospital with a broken broken leg
and this is the true story and they can
send somebody right there and say Here's
a th000 bucks and like to a 18-y old kid
like thousand bucks is a lot yeah sign
it right there they I mean they do stuff
like that and and when his claim is
worth hundreds of thousands of dollars
and so that kind of stuff that's
actually you know part of the reason why
I started advertising too was this is
not right you know yeah cuz I was going
to ask the flip side of that whole
ambulance Chaser thing is that there's
actually people who need help there's
people who have their livelihood put at
risk AB because of some accident that is
not a fault of their own um and it's
really tough position and I've even when
I was practicing people were like bro
can you help me I'm like damn I'm over
here doing spreadsheets I don't do that
kind of law see what I can do yeah but
um yeah you you know it is a service
that actually helping people but you
know what the United States we're a very
litigious country if you don't know what
that word means look it up okay
litigious like we sue a lot of you know
there's like a lot of lawsuits people
plant the idea like oh you should sue
all this or that so I think that's kind
of where you have predatory lawyers out
there and um people thinking that uh a
lawsuit is a get-rich quick scheme
without even realizing you know how much
money it costs I had somebody tell me
about some stupid music related thing
that some person was threatening to sue
them and I was and he was like scared
like dude they said they're going to sue
I'm like well do they got money yeah
well no I'm like don't worry about
it that's very true
too not that like you can't get help
when you really need it but like for
what this situation was I was like it
wouldn't even be worth this person's
time yeah um okay so now let's get to
the the thing that made you famous I
mean advertising is an important part of
any business marketing you can't really
have a business without marketing um the
legal industry running a law firm
there's another thing I learned is the
actual business oh yeah branding and
marketing and for a law firm is actually
a lot of work and crazy enough you have
like become an icon from your Billboards
and your other advertising Ventures so
you were about to tell us how that all
got started so when I was at the turning
point of like is this my solo practice
is that going to be enough is this what
I want to do um I had taken a trip we
were going on a cruise with my mom and
my family and right when I got out of
the airport I had heard this jingle it
was like 444 pain or something like that
and got in the car heard on the radio
saw the buses saw like all the
Billboards and then in the hotel saw the
TV I was like what the [ __ ] I'm like who
so so then I looked it up and I'm like I
can't get and then by the time we were
going home I was singing the jingle and
I was like this is crazy I was like
well we don't have like nothing like
that back at home in Sacramento and I
was like do I want to be the one that do
that i was like let's do it and so the
first thing was let's figure out what
kind of jingle what what kind of you
know thing that we could do that's going
to stick and so we had played around my
husband and I played around a lot of
things and then um so then jokingly he's
like something wrong call and Fong I'm
like oh I was like that's so corny and
we're like corny he's good like corny
works and it's something that you will
remember so we kept saying it we like
you know what that's it that's what
we're going to do um and that's kind of
how we framed everything around
something wrong Callin wrong wow and who
designed the original advertisement I
mean I feel like you use Warrior colors
right which the Warriors like when the
Warriors are going on Championship runs
oh yeah yeah yeah yeah um yeah who who
Who's responsible for this what I want
to know so I do have have a main
marketing um lady who helps me with kind
of everything um but a lot of it I have
different teams you know depending on
where we're get what we're getting done
and a lot of it's just me wow I do what
I like and so they know all the people
that work with me they're like an's just
going to do what she wants and I um I I
just go by what I feel and what I like
and I've been wrong you know don't get
me wrong but um I I just go with what I
what I I like and that's I'm thinking
like if people if I like it people must
like it I know that's not true but in my
mind that's how I see it that's kind of
is true for any type of Art and there is
an art to advertising it's like really
just go with what you like yeah if you
were to do some I mean I feel like your
ads like reflect your personality
there's like the PO shows like strength
your Womanhood you're playing off your
last name it's very much your identity
that's being expressed if you were to do some
some
traditional you know and F Attorney in
law it probably wouldn't have the same
too cuz so we have purposely put me in
dresses because we didn't want the
serious suit and we had too many of
those I mean that's exactly why I
advertised was because there's not too
many people that look like me out there
advertising I mean there's a lot of TV
was going on there wasn't a lot of
billboards at least in in my area um and
I was just like well do people really
just think you you can only have that
old white man on TV be your lawyer
yeah you know I me because that's kind
of like what it felt like um and so you
know a lot of it too was just like I'm
going to put myself out there cuz I want
people to know that there's an option
and that if they need help I'm there and
and it was a hard to I mean cuz you know
I'm the face of it it's me and Fong but
um I was very afraid to do that to
because like I said like when you think
about especially personal injury because
PL if plain if law is very very doggy
dog like a you know so when you think
about a plaintiff's lawyer like do you
normally Envision a female and then a
minority female Asians are known or
supposedly known like we have the
reputation of being submissive right
especially Asian women or like we're not
um we don't voice ourselves and so I was
really afraid that people would would
look at that ad and be like she I'm not
even going to call her and so um but I I
decided that what I wanted to do was
more important getting the message out
there was more important than you you
know my my lack of self-confidence and
so the moment they started airing the
commercials we had the calls weren't
even for accidents it was just like Miss
Fong thank you and I'm like for what and
they said thank you for for letting us
know that you you're there thank you for
being a female thank you for showing my
daughter and I'm like wow like it was
the response was it was it was amazing
cuz it was the opposite of what I feared
was people were saying thank you for
doing something it's like they've been
waiting for it it's really weird um and
so I am I'm very like proud of myself
for being would overcome that and doing
that um not just because you know it
built my business or whatnot and we've
expanded has nothing to do with that
it's just it means a lot to me like to
be able to inspire or or let people know
young girls out there like someone that
looks like me can do that like I love
that yeah wow I mean I think honestly
that was kind of my first reaction too
when I first saw the Billboards I
remember seeing H some oh damn there
another one oh damn there no and
eventually like this might have all been
in the same day and I just remember kind
of being like good for her like that's
dope okay and that was a lot of the
response you know there's a lot of
people just champing just saying like
you know good for you like and and I
appreciate that because the community is
is we're supporting each other right and
we need that we need to support each
other you don't know me but like you see
me doing good or whatever you're like
yeah I mean I deal with a lot with this
in like the music space of artists who
have a hard time with marketing
especially in social media they think
it's as simple as uploading a video or
making a post but they don't understand
that your audience is going to notice
when you're pushing your product or your
service they're going to notice that
like oh wow they're really trying to get
this out there that's what's up I see
them maybe I should check this out
because if you don't if you're not
showing that you take it seriously and
you really care about it you can't
really expect other people to abely okay
so on the business side I mean we we're
talking about the cultural impact how
has this expanded uh F law how is it expanded
expanded
mhm okay so going from like size um
starting off with just me and my husband
I I think I have 65 or 7 employees now
and we have eight lawyers on our team
right you said 65 or 6 65 to 67 I don't
know CU we just hired some people too I
don't even
know um so but we're instead of just in
Northern California obviously the Bay
Area um we last year started our LA
office yeah Deo called me was yesterday likeo
likeo
there he he was in LA yesterday yeah so
we started La um launched San Diego this
summer wow um and so we're kind of just
doing this whole California dominance
thing and my thing is just you know what
I'm still sort of young I feel pretty
good of course I'm not young but I I
feel like this is the time to do it
right like if it's not going to help me
when I get older I tell you that so if
I'm going to do this it's going to be
now while I still have that drive and
that energy um to to expand and um I was
telling Priscilla um I passed the Nevada
bar so uh hopefully be multi-state I
didn't take the NP yet so that's what
I'm studying for so I passed the Nevada
bar in February and I take the NP in 3
weeks that's the personal rules and
responsibilities or something like that
yeah the eth moral the moral test yeah
yeah so I have to pass that and um then
I'll be licensed and hopefully start up
uh Fang La in Nevada that is crazy you
know when you think about all these Law
Firm I worked at a law firm that was
over a hundred years old oh yeah and
they all have you know white men names
like uh I'm not going to say any names
but you just use your imagination
Cromwell and Smith Sony and attorneys at
law you know uhhuh to to think that
there might be a law firm one day that
has that type of longevity with the name
Fong is like pretty amazing thank you
that's cuz I could see it you know going
that route of of growing it like I
started like that wasn't the goal but
you know as as as you meet each goal you
make your goals and your dreams get
bigger right you don't stay complacent
um but when you say that like it's it's
it's not farfetched too as well like to
to continue growing and I think there's
something about the legacy of my family
name oh and let's clarify this cuz I
know you guys are probably wondering is
it f or Fong I know you going to ask me
that right so um obviously p h o o n g
if you pronounce it should be F right
but it's not something wrong called an F
right but we actually do pronounce our
last name as Fong and when my family
came from um when they immigrated over
here when we had to write our names down
my my parents didn't know the difference
and so they they're telling the people
Fong and um didn't know how to the
difference between 1 and 2
and so they wrote down twoos and we went
by that but my name you know so I go by
Fong because that's my family's name
yeah yeah but I know it's supposed to be
F but I don't call myself anung whatever
that's you you know what I mean that's
that's the correct spelling two o's
people get it right two and it's and F
that's right yes um do you have other
attorneys working under you now or I
doow wow I have a team I have really
really really good team and one of the
cool things my I was telling you earlier
my brother 12 years younger um has been
a lawyer with me for two and a half
years now that's amazing it is he went
to San Francisco State and um his last
year like for four years while he was
going to college I was like I have this
Law Firm I want to build something go to
law school he's like no no he was in a
fraternity you know he was partying and
the last thing he think about was
another three or four years of school
right so sure enough I finally stopped
bugging him like his sophomore year I
was like this this kid is not going to
take it seriously so then I guess he
kept seeing you know how we were growing
and then sure enough on his fourth year
he calls me one day says hey sis how do
I go to law school what do I need to do
I was like are you being serious and
he's like yeah and I was like okay you
got to take the elsat and sure enough he
did he then he moved back home which the
school that I went to pass the bar first
time from Lincoln law school okay shout
out to Lincoln Law School they better
put you on their wall of fame no
seriously I mean for from that school
you know what the pass rate is M
43% 43% yeah so it is not a lot of
people pass it so um for him to or us to
be one of the 43%
um uh so yeah so I work with my brother
and we're waiting to do our first trial
together oh man that's so amazing that's
exciting um for someone who's interested
in running a billboard campaign because
I feel like with the internet people
were kind of sleeping on billboards and
um you can get like one of them like a
hood billboard in like East Oakland or
something like Hunter's Point you can
get that for like pretty affordable rate
I feel like but I don't know ballpark
range what does it take to like to to
become a household name I mean oh man um
well just like maybe that initial
campaign well the initial campaigns were
were huge because we do our launch and
that's probably what you see me every
corner because it's like I wanted that
feeling of you can't get rid of me you
know like um but
um I mean it's different for every city
right um but when we first started off
um maybe a few hundred th000 a year and
um now we're
at few million m so but because we're
expanding right um and yeah I know it
hurts when I say that but um and a lot
of people ask me does it work the
Billboards work and I mean I don't know
like the number one calls that we do get
people say we always ask how did you
hear about us and they say Billboards
number one and number two is Billboards or
or
referrals um and so but surprisingly
enough of of all the the calls the cases
that we do get the majority of them are
really from referrals or from either
prior CL clients or a referral could
also be someone that all the Avil board
but they you know their mom told them to
call or my mom just told me to call you
it could be referral from you know
family member or friend um and so though
they do work I think a lot of like we've
sustained our business too just because
we do good by our clients and the word
gets around like oh she's actually good
she's actually a good lawyer um and so
that is just kind of propelled it right
because like I said it only takes you
you know we've we've had markets where
we've tried within California uh the
whole advertising and Mar didn't
work people didn't respond mhm and there
were more of the tightened bedroom
communities right um and so um it like I
said it doesn't it's not a guarantee
just because you buy the space you you
know buy a billboard you put yourself on
TV that they're going to call right yeah
so um
we we spend we spend a good CH of change
you we got to spend money to make money
right exactly and I'll tell you what I'm
G spend money on myself and and and bet
on myself than anyone else I like that I
mean uh you know there's that phrase
scared money don't make money you know
and um I deal with people who are scared
to spend money sometimes it's scary
personal and professional and it's all
good I get it but uh I think in like the
rap industry which is where most people
are probably watching who are connected with us um people don't understand the
with us um people don't understand the value of marketing or running ads or you
value of marketing or running ads or you know they they think it's like a cheat
know they they think it's like a cheat Cod or something um but it's crazy that
Cod or something um but it's crazy that the biggest companies that you wouldn't
the biggest companies that you wouldn't expect to even need advertising are the
expect to even need advertising are the ones who spend the most on it McDonald's
ones who spend the most on it McDonald's yep
yep cocacola Starbucks I mean and they also
cocacola Starbucks I mean and they also don't look at it like all right I paid
don't look at it like all right I paid for one magazine ad let's wait for the
for one magazine ad let's wait for the phone to ring it's like no you have to
phone to ring it's like no you have to be consistent at this you to be
be consistent at this you to be consistent and I think for um someone
consistent and I think for um someone like you with what you've done with the
like you with what you've done with the billboard marketing there going to be
billboard marketing there going to be times where people just see it and like
times where people just see it and like Oh okay that's cool all right and then
Oh okay that's cool all right and then eventually it's like godamn you know
eventually it's like godamn you know like aong is everywhere and at this
like aong is everywhere and at this point like there's not a single person
point like there's not a single person in Northern California and it's getting
in Northern California and it's getting even further that like doesn't know who
even further that like doesn't know who you are like everybody knows who you are
you are like everybody knows who you are now so salute to you for that thank you
now so salute to you for that thank you I I didn't think that I I never imagined
I I didn't think that I I never imagined it when I started cuz like I said it was
it when I started cuz like I said it was just kind of let's just do this and um
just kind of let's just do this and um when we started advertising on the Bay
when we started advertising on the Bay Area it was always you know I'm from San
Area it was always you know I'm from San Jose and the bay I've always love the
Jose and the bay I've always love the Bay Area and we're like during Co I'll
Bay Area and we're like during Co I'll tell you this it's funny cuz I got a
tell you this it's funny cuz I got a discount during Co oh because it's co
discount during Co oh because it's co you know it was like right after like
you know it was like right after like crazy how many people took the
crazy how many people took the opportunity during Co to and so we were
opportunity during Co to and so we were talking about scared money don't make
talking about scared money don't make money right and so I was thinking if
money right and so I was thinking if we're going to do this like I bet you
we're going to do this like I bet you there's some good deals like no one's
there's some good deals like no one's buying any boards right now so I call my
buying any boards right now so I call my guy I go what deal you got for me he's
guy I go what deal you got for me he's like I can get you 300 boards for I'm
like I can get you 300 boards for I'm like what I was like okay like from what
like what I was like okay like from what I normally play I was like let's do it I
I normally play I was like let's do it I was like let's do it and so that's kind
was like let's do it and so that's kind of um how we kind of got that jump start
of um how we kind of got that jump start like because it was so cheap yeah and
like because it was so cheap yeah and they're damn expensive again now but
they're damn expensive again now but definitely took advantage of it when we
definitely took advantage of it when we had that opportunity and it was that
had that opportunity and it was that kind of thinking that mindset of I was
kind of thinking that mindset of I was like what are what is everyone else
like what are what is everyone else doing yeah everyone's saving their money
doing yeah everyone's saving their money because they're afraid right everyone's
because they're afraid right everyone's not spending money probably the wise the
not spending money probably the wise the do but like the biggest risk get the
do but like the biggest risk get the biggest rewards right and so that's why
biggest rewards right and so that's why I was like you know what let's pull the
I was like you know what let's pull the trigger and let's let's do the B now um
trigger and let's let's do the B now um while while it's kind of cheap and we
while while it's kind of cheap and we just maintain everything now and so we
just maintain everything now and so we don't do as much we don't do 300 Dr the
don't do as much we don't do 300 Dr the bay like we did before um something
bay like we did before um something about like 100 okay yeah that's crazy I
about like 100 okay yeah that's crazy I mean um at this point too like there was
mean um at this point too like there was an article that came out recently uh in
an article that came out recently uh in 48 Hills I believe right was that the
48 Hills I believe right was that the article about you and um you are
article about you and um you are hosting appearance at uh the stud bar oh
hosting appearance at uh the stud bar oh my gosh that was so much fun that was a
my gosh that was so much fun that was a great article I'm sorry the name of the
great article I'm sorry the name of the author is escaping me at the moment but
author is escaping me at the moment but um the article was really interesting
um the article was really interesting because it covered that event and
because it covered that event and basically like was talking about how you
basically like was talking about how you have like become an icon now I know it
have like become an icon now I know it was weird like I that word icon like I
was weird like I that word icon like I you said it and I'm just like I don't
you said it and I'm just like I don't see myself as one but they kind of
see myself as one but they kind of dubbed me as one and and I don't know
dubbed me as one and and I don't know how to like take it in like I'm you know
how to like take it in like I'm you know I blush like I'm still very like like I
I blush like I'm still very like like I I'm humbled by it because I'm like me
I'm humbled by it because I'm like me I'm just little old and fall like um but
I'm just little old and fall like um but the people that think that like my fans
the people that think that like my fans are so sweet they're so cute so I went
are so sweet they're so cute so I went to the stud they invited me and it was
to the stud they invited me and it was out a fluke they were just like hey they
out a fluke they were just like hey they they emailed me about a month before the
they emailed me about a month before the event and they're like hey we're doing
event and they're like hey we're doing this re opening in the stud have you
this re opening in the stud have you ever been there and we'd love for you to
ever been there and we'd love for you to uh be there and do the ribon cutting
uh be there and do the ribon cutting ceremony and I had him to talk about it
ceremony and I had him to talk about it because number one it's a club and you
because number one it's a club and you know I'm a lawyer I didn't know how
know I'm a lawyer I didn't know how professional that would look but my gut
professional that would look but my gut wanted to do that I was like oh this is
wanted to do that I was like oh this is cool this is fun you know and um so I
cool this is fun you know and um so I kind of just ghosted it for a little bit
kind of just ghosted it for a little bit and then like the week before I like you
and then like the week before I like you know what I don't [ __ ] care what
know what I don't [ __ ] care what people think about me and that's it came
people think about me and that's it came down to cuz he you know he the guy the
down to cuz he you know he the guy the host was ask me like so can you come and
host was ask me like so can you come and I was like you know what I want to do
I was like you know what I want to do this and I'm not going to sit back and
this and I'm not going to sit back and think about well what do these people
think about well what do these people think about fallone you know what if you
think about fallone you know what if you don't like it [ __ ] you and that's the
don't like it [ __ ] you and that's the truth and I told them I was like you
truth and I told them I was like you know I'm going to come whatever backlash
know I'm going to come whatever backlash people give me whatever that's fine I'll
people give me whatever that's fine I'll take it um but I want to do this I
take it um but I want to do this I believed in what they were trying to cuz
believed in what they were trying to cuz you know so the story behind that was
you know so the story behind that was they were closed because of Co they
they were closed because of Co they couldn't open for a few years so it was
couldn't open for a few years so it was a big opening and I I just I wanted to
a big opening and I I just I wanted to be there and support the community for
be there and support the community for that so I was like [ __ ] it who cares if
that so I was like [ __ ] it who cares if they think that an Fong's just a lawyer
they think that an Fong's just a lawyer that goes to clubs now you know like I
that goes to clubs now you know like I don't care you know I had a good time I
don't care you know I had a good time I had such an amazing time and I got to
had such an amazing time and I got to dance got to drink a little bit and take
dance got to drink a little bit and take some pictures with with the F people
some pictures with with the F people article said people were like bringing
article said people were like bringing bats for you my gosh yes yeah it was so
bats for you my gosh yes yeah it was so sweet it was they they got a they
sweet it was they they got a they painted a b silver and put um sari um uh
painted a b silver and put um sari um uh they hand did it um the day before and
they hand did it um the day before and glued on this um crystals for me it was
glued on this um crystals for me it was sweet really sweet that's dope I mean I
sweet really sweet that's dope I mean I think that's the thing about the Bay
think that's the thing about the Bay Area is like we're really proud about
Area is like we're really proud about our local scene um if you're from here
our local scene um if you're from here you remember all the old school jingle
you remember all the old school jingle right if I say the name Tom Shane for
right if I say the name Tom Shane for example everybody's going to know you
example everybody's going to know you got a friend in the diamond business you
got a friend in the diamond business you know what I'm saying not just any BP
know what I'm saying not just any BP 19th Avenue BP you remember that one Doo
19th Avenue BP you remember that one Doo so these are like the things we grew up
so these are like the things we grew up with on the radio on the Billboards and
with on the radio on the Billboards and um it's more than just the
um it's more than just the advertisements it's about the people
advertisements it's about the people that they represent and I think you've
that they represent and I think you've done an amazing job at integrating
done an amazing job at integrating yourself into the local community into
yourself into the local community into the local culture but I think as you
the local culture but I think as you said it's like you can't have great
said it's like you can't have great advertising in a bad product so I'm sure
advertising in a bad product so I'm sure you know you're lawyering and speaking
you know you're lawyering and speaking for itself you wouldn't be making this
for itself you wouldn't be making this these types of moves if you weren't a
these types of moves if you weren't a determined Hustler um and interesting
determined Hustler um and interesting enough I mean we talked about a little
enough I mean we talked about a little bit offline but there's some some other
bit offline but there's some some other people you know maybe adopting the same
people you know maybe adopting the same strategy and putting some Billboards out
strategy and putting some Billboards out there yeah more power to you there you
there yeah more power to you there you go absolutely you know if you're going
go absolutely you know if you're going to you know I welcome to come
to you know I welcome to come competition right cuz like we need
competition right cuz like we need competition right in our lives and just
competition right in our lives and just everything it drives you right when you
everything it drives you right when you have a competitor and I have no problem
have a competitor and I have no problem for people who are playing fairly what I
for people who are playing fairly what I do have a problem with is people who
do have a problem with is people who don't play fair and play dirty and what
don't play fair and play dirty and what I mean by that is people who are trying
I mean by that is people who are trying to buy my name uh people who clients
to buy my name uh people who clients think they're calling my office um and
think they're calling my office um and calling another law for yeah yeah ant
calling another law for yeah yeah ant here an here and then they'll sign them
here an here and then they'll sign them up and then pretending my clients crazy
up and then pretending my clients crazy and that's where I said like the whole
and that's where I said like the whole reputation about bad lawyers I kind of I
reputation about bad lawyers I kind of I understand why why the community public
understand why why the community public like gives us a bad name because there's
like gives us a bad name because there's dir lawyers out there I mean there's a
dir lawyers out there I mean there's a ton of good ones too but um the bad ones
ton of good ones too but um the bad ones are so bad right and um not just on
are so bad right and um not just on little things like that but just in
little things like that but just in general right and like I said if you're
general right and like I said if you're going to compete and put Billboards at
going to compete and put Billboards at me I have no problem with it and if
me I have no problem with it and if people want to call you instead of me
people want to call you instead of me you did good right but if you're going
you did good right but if you're going to sneak around and and buy my name and
to sneak around and and buy my name and I'm not work up your own name right you
I'm not work up your own name right you know um it's just it's been dirty um and
know um it's just it's been dirty um and it's it's just kind of part of the game
it's it's just kind of part of the game too though and like yeah it it comes
too though and like yeah it it comes with the territory I guess yeah I mean
with the territory I guess yeah I mean we talked about haters too I think it's
we talked about haters too I think it's easy to dismiss you as being like a bus
easy to dismiss you as being like a bus stop lawyer like Better Call Saul or
stop lawyer like Better Call Saul or something like that I'm sure you've
something like that I'm sure you've heard that before yes 100
heard that before yes 100 times um but you know what uh you you
times um but you know what uh you you know Believe It or Not ladies and
know Believe It or Not ladies and gentlemen I get hated on too uh you know
gentlemen I get hated on too uh you know who could hate on this I don't know but
who could hate on this I don't know but um anytime something like that comes up
um anytime something like that comes up I actually I just have to take it as a
I actually I just have to take it as a compliment because at the end of the day
compliment because at the end of the day people are are only going to throw shade
people are are only going to throw shade at something that is shiny and PE if
at something that is shiny and PE if you're not um if you're if you're not uh
you're not um if you're if you're not uh I don't know if there's a certain point
I don't know if there's a certain point where you reach a level of growth where
where you reach a level of growth where it's just inevitable your success is
it's just inevitable your success is just just naturally going to make people
just just naturally going to make people feel insecure about their own failures
feel insecure about their own failures whether whether you intend to or not um
whether whether you intend to or not um so I think it's all just a testament to
so I think it's all just a testament to your success I think also being a woman
your success I think also being a woman too I think in a in a primarily M driven
too I think in a in a primarily M driven industry like the legal industry you
industry like the legal industry you know some guys can't handle that oh yeah
know some guys can't handle that oh yeah you know um getting their ass kicked by
you know um getting their ass kicked by a girl you know as they would say oh
a girl you know as they would say oh yeah it it it it happens and I'm just
yeah it it it it happens and I'm just like I said I'm just just uh was telling
like I said I'm just just uh was telling a story about a a competitor that had
a story about a a competitor that had some bad things to say about me and my
some bad things to say about me and my advertising and I don't even know your
advertising and I don't even know your name and it's like I must be doing
name and it's like I must be doing something to your book of business for
something to your book of business for you to hate on me so much I mean like it
you to hate on me so much I mean like it you know it just I don't get it um but
you know it just I don't get it um but like I said I always say I sleep good at
like I said I always say I sleep good at night I sleep good because I'm a good
night I sleep good because I'm a good person I'm a good lawyer I do good by my
person I'm a good lawyer I do good by my clients um and if that's how you want to
clients um and if that's how you want to do you want to be dirty you want to play
do you want to be dirty you want to play dirty um that's on you you know I tried
dirty um that's on you you know I tried to just accept that I can't control
to just accept that I can't control these things no of course and it comes
these things no of course and it comes with the territory you're putting
with the territory you're putting yourself out there in a very visible way
yourself out there in a very visible way it definitely comes with that people I
it definitely comes with that people I I'm putting myself out there and like
I'm putting myself out there and like what am I going to expect right it's
what am I going to expect right it's kind of like um and and this is another
kind of like um and and this is another subject I do want to talk about um
subject I do want to talk about um putting myself out there right and I
putting myself out there right and I think a lot of people think of it as oh
think a lot of people think of it as oh she's you know a pretty girl like and
she's you know a pretty girl like and I've had people like on social media
I've had people like on social media make comments like oh her dress is a
make comments like oh her dress is a kind of low or like you know like that's
kind of low or like you know like that's a you know whatever her curves and
a you know whatever her curves and whatever um and I I know that I have to
whatever um and I I know that I have to take that in right as part of it and and
take that in right as part of it and and when we first started the advertising
when we first started the advertising you know how many times my husband
you know how many times my husband wanted to go beat someone's ass right
wanted to go beat someone's ass right because they would like leave messages
because they would like leave messages to rock you know but it all comes with
to rock you know but it all comes with it right we all knew that if we're going
it right we all knew that if we're going to do this you know the good comes with
to do this you know the good comes with the bad um but I think that people still
the bad um but I think that people still you know underestimate and just think
you know underestimate and just think like oh it's just a pretty face and
like oh it's just a pretty face and she's some people don't even think that
she's some people don't even think that I'm the lawyer they're just like oh
I'm the lawyer they're just like oh that's a girl on the billboard and that
that's a girl on the billboard and that she's not the lawyer or like she can't
she's not the lawyer or like she can't be good cuz she's just a pretty face or
be good cuz she's just a pretty face or um she's just selling her body like okay
um she's just selling her body like okay um but like I said I you know used to
um but like I said I you know used to get to me and and um I accepted it
get to me and and um I accepted it because I'm putting myself out there so
because I'm putting myself out there so I'm I'm going to take all the feedback
I'm I'm going to take all the feedback negative or good that comes with it but
negative or good that comes with it but doesn't mean that doesn't get to you
doesn't mean that doesn't get to you right like you got to have thick skin
right like you got to have thick skin yeah but you know some of the comments
yeah but you know some of the comments are you know it's you know I'm only
are you know it's you know I'm only human right yeah and people have
human right yeah and people have recently said stuff about my braces and
recently said stuff about my braces and and my teeth and my mouth and it almost
and my teeth and my mouth and it almost made me cry and and I'm like so um and I
made me cry and and I'm like so um and I get you know I I go in spurts of it um
get you know I I go in spurts of it um but one of the things that someone had
but one of the things that someone had said was it it I was like oh my gosh I
said was it it I was like oh my gosh I just can't read comments anymore because
just can't read comments anymore because it was like you know it was really mean
it was like you know it was really mean it was like a bully and I'm like why the
it was like a bully and I'm like why the [ __ ] are you even following are you even
[ __ ] are you even following are you even saying anything if you ain't got nothing
saying anything if you ain't got nothing nice to say come on and I feel bad then
nice to say come on and I feel bad then it starts making me think about the kids
it starts making me think about the kids and what they go through and I'm a
and what they go through and I'm a freaking grown woman I'm adult I could
freaking grown woman I'm adult I could take it like I might cry one night but
take it like I might cry one night but I'm good the next day yeah but when I
I'm good the next day yeah but when I think about the kids and like how this
think about the kids and like how this affects them and all the bullying that's
affects them and all the bullying that's going around like it's really sad it's
going around like it's really sad it's it's that's what we have to deal with
it's that's what we have to deal with like yeah so I get it I'm inviting you
like yeah so I get it I'm inviting you know comes with the territory but it's
know comes with the territory but it's just mean like be nice people yeah no
just mean like be nice people yeah no it's it's crazy it's it's uh it's like a
it's it's crazy it's it's uh it's like a disturbing symptom of our society right
disturbing symptom of our society right now that you know anything public on the
now that you know anything public on the Internet is going to get talked about
Internet is going to get talked about like that yeah um I happen to notice a
like that yeah um I happen to notice a lot of people leaving these comments
lot of people leaving these comments don't show a profile picture they have
don't show a profile picture they have very few followers typically uh you just
very few followers typically uh you just don't really see uh Happy successful
don't really see uh Happy successful people engaging in that type of behavior
people engaging in that type of behavior of tearing people down so so you know
of tearing people down so so you know what people need to realize is when
what people need to realize is when you're putting that stuff out there
you're putting that stuff out there you're saying more about yourself than
you're saying more about yourself than you could ever say absolutely about the
you could ever say absolutely about the person you're talking about yeah yeah
person you're talking about yeah yeah and um people talking about your braces
and um people talking about your braces and all that let me see your teeth yeah
and all that let me see your teeth yeah I
I know put your face on the billboard they
know put your face on the billboard they had a rose on the profile picture okay
had a rose on the profile picture okay yeah you know how hard it is to put your
yeah you know how hard it is to put your face and like know that like you're
face and like know that like you're going to the people are going to talk
going to the people are going to talk [ __ ] too you know it's hard so I mean as
[ __ ] too you know it's hard so I mean as a woman too right like you know I want
a woman too right like you know I want to be respected as well as an attorney
to be respected as well as an attorney um but I will tell you that I um I
um but I will tell you that I um I started commenting on that one of the
started commenting on that one of the comments I was like reply back and I'm
comments I was like reply back and I'm like you [ __ ] I was like do you know
like you [ __ ] I was like do you know what I've been through and do you even
what I've been through and do you even know like I couldn't get racist when I
know like I couldn't get racist when I was young cuz my parents had no money
was young cuz my parents had no money and I've always wanted to get racist but
and I've always wanted to get racist but I had no money and I finally can afford
I had no money and I finally can afford to get braces but when I could afford it
to get braces but when I could afford it I was too ashamed to wear bra because I
I was too ashamed to wear bra because I was afraid i' look ugly so I finally
was afraid i' look ugly so I finally have the courage to wear some freaking
have the courage to wear some freaking braces and hear you know all these
braces and hear you know all these comments and then like so as as a mother
comments and then like so as as a mother of a daughter and I'm really trying to
of a daughter and I'm really trying to you know preach what I say too right I'm
you know preach what I say too right I'm trying to teach her to love herself and
trying to teach her to love herself and don't care um like I'm embracing him um
don't care um like I'm embracing him um I love him some days and I hate him the
I love him some days and I hate him the other days but that's just kind of how
other days but that's just kind of how it goes right life is up and down I tell
it goes right life is up and down I tell my daughter like the one thing that if I
my daughter like the one thing that if I could ever teach her anything is like
could ever teach her anything is like love yourself like [ __ ] every body else
love yourself like [ __ ] every body else cuz it's I'm scared like going back to
cuz it's I'm scared like going back to like these comments and like bullying
like these comments and like bullying I'm so scared of the world that that
I'm so scared of the world that that that they're growing up in with so
that they're growing up in with so everyone just right talking [ __ ] behind
everyone just right talking [ __ ] behind keyboards and then it's just box right
keyboards and then it's just box right you don't even talking to people right
you don't even talking to people right then it's just all fake and then y all
then it's just all fake and then y all worked up for nothing and then yeah you
worked up for nothing and then yeah you hear about these kids committing suicide
hear about these kids committing suicide and it's it's terrible it's scary trolls
and it's it's terrible it's scary trolls there's like this comedian his name is
there's like this comedian his name is Ben Palmer and he he goes on like he
Ben Palmer and he he goes on like he he'll create like fake accounts like
he'll create like fake accounts like pretending to be Walgreens or something
pretending to be Walgreens or something and he'll just like troll like crazy
and he'll just like troll like crazy right-wing Republicans he'll put
right-wing Republicans he'll put something up about like LGBT pride month
something up about like LGBT pride month sponsored by Walgreens and then people
sponsored by Walgreens and then people will comment and he'll just go and troll
will comment and he'll just go and troll them and it's just some guy laughing
them and it's just some guy laughing with them yeah that's what I have to
with them yeah that's what I have to remember too is like some of these
remember too is like some of these people are just trying to get a rise out
people are just trying to get a rise out of you or just be like bro and fall
of you or just be like bro and fall commented today bro look I said her
commented today bro look I said her braces look crazy she wrote back like so
braces look crazy she wrote back like so I didn't I didn't I didn't reply to that
I didn't I didn't I didn't reply to that I deleted it right cuz I'm like okay be
I deleted it right cuz I'm like okay be smarter and but the next
smarter and but the next one I got trapped this one wasn't about
one I got trapped this one wasn't about my braces this person had the audacity
my braces this person had the audacity to say oh yeah she didn't even go to a
to say oh yeah she didn't even go to a top tier school that I was like oh no
top tier school that I was like oh no I'm going get you [ __ ] I like
I'm going get you [ __ ] I like this I like where'd you go Pub where'
this I like where'd you go Pub where' you go I'm like I'm sure you're I'm sure
you go I'm like I'm sure you're I'm sure you're not and then I'm realizing like
you're not and then I'm realizing like about eight replies after I'm like this
about eight replies after I'm like this [ __ ] two followers I was like oh
[ __ ] two followers I was like oh an why did you let yourself
an why did you let yourself myself yeah cuz I was so enraged into it
myself yeah cuz I was so enraged into it and um see that's the thing with the
and um see that's the thing with the social media it's good and it's like
social media it's good and it's like it's bad and so what I had told myself
it's bad and so what I had told myself was like be careful like when I read
was like be careful like when I read stuff about me like I'm scared I'm I
stuff about me like I'm scared I'm I almost like read it with when I open and
almost like read it with when I open and one I Clos um and it's you know just I
one I Clos um and it's you know just I just want people to know out there like
just want people to know out there like you know your comments like I think that
you know your comments like I think that people might have the conception oh
people might have the conception oh she's you know on she's putting herself
she's you know on she's putting herself out there so she must think she's
out there so she must think she's beautiful or she must have you know but
beautiful or she must have you know but no I have insecurities and like you know
no I have insecurities and like you know like I'm human and your words hurt and
like I'm human and your words hurt and but I also want to put the message out
but I also want to put the message out like also [ __ ] you if you want to be
like also [ __ ] you if you want to be mean you know
mean you know like um no time for that like and and
like um no time for that like and and that's the The Vibes I want to get is
that's the The Vibes I want to get is just like Good Vibes like just Good
just like Good Vibes like just Good Vibes all around um I don't know if you
Vibes all around um I don't know if you could tell but like I'm generally like
could tell but like I'm generally like I'm I'm I'm a I feel like I'm a good
I'm I'm I'm a I feel like I'm a good decent person I'm a happy person just
decent person I'm a happy person just don't [ __ ] with me you know I will
don't [ __ ] with me you know I will always be nice that's I always choose
always be nice that's I always choose that you know um but if you come for me
that you know um but if you come for me I'm going come back right um but I just
I'm going come back right um but I just think that um there's just two sides of
think that um there's just two sides of it too you know putting your face out
it too you know putting your face out there then dealing with the backlash
there then dealing with the backlash it's not always yeah when you mention
it's not always yeah when you mention kids I'm like man they should start they
kids I'm like man they should start they need to start teaching that in schools
need to start teaching that in schools how to how to deal with internet haters
how to how to deal with internet haters because it happens to the best of us
because it happens to the best of us when we get caught in that cycle
when we get caught in that cycle sometimes but honestly the best thing is
sometimes but honestly the best thing is just ignore it keep it pushing if you
just ignore it keep it pushing if you got to block somebody for your piece of
got to block somebody for your piece of mind block them it's not a big deal but
mind block them it's not a big deal but um yeah I mean this is also why I'm
um yeah I mean this is also why I'm really glad you're here to share your
really glad you're here to share your story because there's so much more to
story because there's so much more to you in the Billboards which I knew there
you in the Billboards which I knew there was um yeah really interesting backlash
was um yeah really interesting backlash is I'm can only imagine what it's like
is I'm can only imagine what it's like for like women's body positivity because
for like women's body positivity because it's like it's not like your Billboards
it's like it's not like your Billboards are like sexually provocative I don't
are like sexually provocative I don't think so you're just wearing a
think so you're just wearing a formfitting dress it's not particularly
formfitting dress it's not particularly revealing in any way but it's like if a
revealing in any way but it's like if a if a guy wears uh just some regular old
if a guy wears uh just some regular old outfits they're not even if the guy is
outfits they're not even if the guy is like flexing that might work right some
like flexing that might work right some let me defend
let me defend you some buff lawyer guy but uh yeah I
you some buff lawyer guy but uh yeah I think it's just um inherent in in the
think it's just um inherent in in the field but I think it's also inspiring
field but I think it's also inspiring and why this has gotten such a crazy
and why this has gotten such a crazy response is because um people are really
response is because um people are really admiring you as a a p P ER in a
admiring you as a a p P ER in a Trailblazer and um I think putting
Trailblazer and um I think putting yourself out there is very valuable and
yourself out there is very valuable and I applaud your work thank you thank you
I applaud your work thank you thank you it's like I said it's um it's a it's a
it's like I said it's um it's a it's a blessing and there's good days and
blessing and there's good days and there's bad days most of it's good all
there's bad days most of it's good all and shout out to my Queens out there
and shout out to my Queens out there okay like I don't think I've gotten
okay like I don't think I've gotten backlash from females yeah bet like the
backlash from females yeah bet like the girls aren't hating on they're not like
girls aren't hating on they're not like talking [ __ ] about like oh I don't get I
talking [ __ ] about like oh I don't get I get nothing but love and I mean like you
get nothing but love and I mean like you know like the guys are you know the
know like the guys are you know the comments I do get are bad actually all
comments I do get are bad actually all the ones on my looks are from men yeah
the ones on my looks are from men yeah yeah all all the mean ones are from men
yeah all all the mean ones are from men and I'm just like who taught you guys
and I'm just like who taught you guys okay um but yeah all the the females all
okay um but yeah all the the females all the women like all POS all good like
the women like all POS all good like just go Queen and we love you and
just go Queen and we love you and support no one's ever commented on my
support no one's ever commented on my body my you know on a female um so it's
body my you know on a female um so it's I'm just noticing and realizing that as
I'm just noticing and realizing that as he said that um amazing so shout out to
he said that um amazing so shout out to all my Queens out there I love you guys
all my Queens out there I love you guys seriously that's amaz like that's what
seriously that's amaz like that's what it's all about is is supporting each
it's all about is is supporting each other and um not not just you know like
other and um not not just you know like in in all Realms right um being minority
in in all Realms right um being minority but being a female and I think like you
but being a female and I think like you said going back to being like you don't
said going back to being like you don't see too many women lawyers that own the
see too many women lawyers that own the firm like you see there's tons of women
firm like you see there's tons of women lawyers right like women and minorities
lawyers right like women and minorities but like to actually be the owner of the
but like to actually be the owner of the firm like this is my firm good point
firm like this is my firm good point right and you don't see that much out
right and you don't see that much out see so much of it out there I really
see so much of it out there I really there's more than just me obviously but
there's more than just me obviously but it's not you know what you see all the
it's not you know what you see all the time and so um if I could encourage or
time and so um if I could encourage or Empower anybody like not even just in
Empower anybody like not even just in the legal field just in anything I went
the legal field just in anything I went to saak State yesterday and I heard a
to saak State yesterday and I heard a young girl who said that what she wanted
young girl who said that what she wanted to do was one day she's a she teaches
to do was one day she's a she teaches dance she wants to open up her own
dance she wants to open up her own studio um in her name and I was like man
studio um in her name and I was like man how good does it feel to be like 20s
how good does it feel to be like 20s something have dreams like that and I
something have dreams like that and I was like I'll tell you what
was like I'll tell you what that was me like 10 years ago I didn't I
that was me like 10 years ago I didn't I was like oh I'm going to open this firm
was like oh I'm going to open this firm and who' have thought right so um and
and who' have thought right so um and and so I just told her I was like you
and so I just told her I was like you can do it and she's like are you serious
can do it and she's like are you serious I'm like you can do it and I told her to
I'm like you can do it and I told her to hit me up and I was like if you ever
hit me up and I was like if you ever need help or anything like let me know
need help or anything like let me know um but she was you know minority as well
um but she was you know minority as well and I think she was just like really
and I think she was just like really like yes you can do it I was like you
like yes you can do it I was like you can't do this don't and the people that
can't do this don't and the people that think you can't get rid of them there
think you can't get rid of them there you go I love it
you go I love it that's why I'm so glad you're here to
that's why I'm so glad you're here to join us to um spread that message
join us to um spread that message um yeah it's been a pleasure hearing all
um yeah it's been a pleasure hearing all the story I feel
the story I feel inspired um I'm going to keep pursuing
inspired um I'm going to keep pursuing my creative
dreams um is there anything else coming up that you want to talk about or any
up that you want to talk about or any shout outs you want to give or no what's
shout outs you want to give or no what's the best way for people to get in touch
the best way for people to get in touch with you 866 got
with you 866 got pain you know know the number you know
pain you know know the number you know the name something wrong you better call
the name something wrong you better call and F and if you watch this interview
and F and if you watch this interview and decide to hit her up please let her
and decide to hit her up please let her know that you got the referral from the
know that you got the referral from the history of debate
history of debate podcast but this has been a real treat
podcast but this has been a real treat thanks again uh an Fong our lovely guest
thanks again uh an Fong our lovely guest amazing lawyer amazing businesswoman my
amazing lawyer amazing businesswoman my name is dregs one shout out to the whole
name is dregs one shout out to the whole team shout out to the sponsors shout out
team shout out to the sponsors shout out to you for listening and uh we'll be
to you for listening and uh we'll be back soon with some more
back soon with some more peace and
peace and love recognize where you got the G we
love recognize where you got the G we got our own style got own Northern
got our own style got own Northern California is a West Coast thing this is
California is a West Coast thing this is the history of the bank recognize where
the history of the bank recognize where you got the game we got our own style
you got the game we got our own style got our own slang Northern California is
got our own slang Northern California is a West Coast thing this is the history
a West Coast thing this is the history of the bank
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