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Bending Brains #75 - Rob Joynes
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[Applause]
[Music]
[Applause]
I'm just going to like I'll just I'll
just like look behind you I'll look up
here I'll look around I'll look at the
mic I'll look at your forehead and every
once while be on the eyes eyes look at
my eyes it's this freaking out Man
glasses are we rolling yeah have you
done a podcast have done many podcasts I
don't know why people keep asking me to
do podcasts I'm like I mean I didn't to
be fair I didn't ask you you know you're
just here sleeping pre feed over there
and I don't have a choice I know we're
right I literally was sleeped is right
there on my air mattress we just got
done doing an awesome session sounded
great by the way you were too hard on
yourself I yeah I'm I am nobody and
people keep asking me to be on their
podcasts not since Steve Albini have you
had such a distinguished guest with the
with the crowns of Heaven and the The
Laurels of Earth as Rob
joins um but here I am you know here to
talk about it and uh yeah so tell the
tell the people who you are and what you
do uh my name is Rob joins I'm from
Seattle I make music
and um I'm
in three projects right now uh I have a
band called fell off a band called
Sunnyland and I'd make uh music by my by
myself under my name Rob joins and um
that's what I do and people can find
this music on the internet everywhere
that music is available all the places
title I don't know I mean I did you go
through like dis kid or city B yeah
exactly it's everywhere band camp uh
yeah sometimes I unclick Amazon music
just because I hate Amazon but then I
sto I kind of stopped doing that because
I was like I didn't want to make it like
less accessible the thing I have about
individuals who char pick which massive
doll tech company it's like what phone
do you have right what websites do you
use exactly like you Spotify is an a
billion company that I think I used to
do that I think I just have like a
personal Vendetta against Amazon you
sound like Trevor he the say he's Amazon
yet for some reason he'll use everything
else it's like there's at at that high
of a level there's no difference they I
live in Seattle they exploit I think
that's you know it's because it's stucks
visible uh we're okay
come on now we just started I want to St
you must only like grunge Nirvana and
Starbucks maybe death C CU it ends there
um the like the the the visibility of
what Amazon has done to Seattle is like
so everywhere describe it I've I've
never been to Seattle it's one of the
few big American cities I Haven been to
so let let me and the people know and
you you've been living there for how
long Seattle 10 years okay so you know
it well yeah yeah and uh it's home you
know go Haw and uh like so South Lake
Union is the Amazon campus and if you
were just headquarters
there yeah it's there's like a million
skyscrapers and like up like a 100,000
like techies with like badges on walking
around and if you like were to go there
as just like a like a a normal
civilian like I I went and just like
walked around with my partner and was
just like it's like a model City blown
up to to scale like it's bizarre it
feels like Bizarro world like this 10
years ago no when did this start
happening well it was I mean I guess it
started like yeah 10 12 years ago like
right when you moved there yeah it used
to be more of like an industrial kind of
part of town but it's like uh the whole
Skyline has changed in 10 years uh we
call it the Amazon crane Forest it's
just like 30 cranes perpetually building
skyscrapers it I mean I don't think it
just is like it's it's obvious like um a
lot yeah these buildings are weird
they're like a lot of them are vacant I
don't know um why are they
vacant because they they built them so
fast that they're like there's nobody in
them yet you know what I mean like yeah
it's I don't really understand how all
that
works I I don't go to South Lake Union
like that's not like a place if you live
in Seattle you don't go there right I
don't go to the places where it's Tech
heavy in finance heavy in Chicago not
often when I do I I know I'm there you
know you know when you know you're there
like yeah this is different um my my I
have a a list of stores you will see
when you know you are there and I'll
give you my this is my fun list this is
just anecdotal but you'll see a um
Lululemon Orby Parker Molly's Cupcakes
or Jenny's ice cream one of the one or
both um some brick-and-mortar like
flower Boutique looking shops
what else um you'll see a Panera Bread
you'll definitely see like a Panera and
chipotle uh maybe like a blaze pizza or
something and I'm trying to think of
like the nicer what are some other like
really nice obvious stores the biggest
one to me is always going to be like a
Lululemon warie Parker like that's how
you know and then again like a I don't
know if you guys have Molly cupcakes and
Jenny's ice cream out there but it's a
it's a g cuz they're like highend
cupcakes and highend ice cream like ice
cream you'll get like two scoops for
like $10 we have a thing called Molly
Moons I've never been to to it though I
mean we have a lot of like boot like um
or Starbucks Reserve not Starbucks but
Starbucks Reserve yeah I don't know
about that I've never heard of that but
we the fcy St we have like artisanal ice
cream and stuff and there's always like
a like like a group of dorks like lined
up outside to get in and I'm like who
are these people like they probably
think you're a dork too I'm like I can't
imagine being an adult man and standing
in line like in line for more than 10
minutes for ice
so Seattle has a big Tech boom as of the
last decade certainly and why Seattle
cuz it used to be San
Francisco and like New York and now I
know Chicago's also well Google is
headquartered in Seattle Microsoft is
from Seattle MH Um T-Mobile are this the
Mariners play at T-Mobile Park you know
um across the water from us if you take
520 or I90 the Bridges go to Belleview
which is its own City that's like got
skyscrapers and stuff but it just like
it faces Seattle across the water MH
um and also like a place where I just
can't imagine going it just it exists
there I don't know what's going on over
there you been I mean I have but what it
what kind of is this a nice area uh yeah
it's got like a mall that has like Gucci
and Louis V is it where a lot of the the
people who work at the tech tech
companies live I don't know you're
asking me all kinds of questions
about for yeah but like you know
Seattle's like any other city it's just
like a series of small towns and like
you don't leave your neighborhood
necessarily like uh I mean I go there
are like the places I go I'm like I'm in
Capitol Hill I'm in Ballard and I'm and
and I'm up north where I live like I uh
what neighborhood do you live in I I'm
not going to I'm not going to like get
into specifics but
I what reg don't dox me bro what oh my
God I live in like shorel first of all
you go by a fake last name and your
first name is Rob that's not a popular
name a lot of red flags um no one's
going to fight me uh no no I'm not
worried about that I just like I don't
want it to make it sound like I don't
live in Seattle because I live in
Shoreline which is technically a
different municipality so I don't have a
Seattle address anymore I know I was
really sad when we moved up there a year
ago I was really sad to lose my Seattle
address luckily I don't mail my own
merch like other people do that for me
so I like I used to have to put my
return address like and it and it and it
said Seattle on it so I was like cool
yeah like I'm from Seattle but like it
would be a bummer if I had to put
Shoreline on the return address that
people just they need like the big city
name to feel like authentic like they
got it cuz I I didn't have it until a
year ago I don't know what that is I
never really got it I never had I was in
hickor Hills and people were like hick
Hills I'm it's Preposterous I should not
feel I shouldn't feel any it is
preposterous Preposterous Preposterous
Preposterous Preposterous Preposterous
no editing on this podcast no editing
editing we're going to talk for two
hours no editing he said we spend a lot
of time trying to figure out how to
pronounce words yeah I don't know the
city it's an obsession specifically with
bigger cities like New York Chicago La
Dallas Miami Seattle Oregon San
Francisco it's not Portland rather um
you like people want to have that name
for some reason especially like in an
art scene probably the same if you're
like in a in in the Tech Finance SC like
oh I live in you know in New York I live
in Manhattan you know or I live in Los
or San
Francisco but I don't know it is
definitely a flex and how I know that is
I never lived in it I lived in a small
sub outside a major city and I saw how
the Chicago individuals sometimes not
all would Flex it or not take you
seriously if you weren't in the city I
think maybe maybe
like like unpacking the reason why I
feel that way is probably also just
because it's like it's almost like a
branding thing it's like people know the
brand of Love Like It says says that
Seattle on all of my stuff on all my
social media on my band camp all these
things like it says I'm from Seattle so
like where the [ __ ] is Shoreline you
know what I mean and literally if you go
like three blocks south of my house
you're in
Seattle just a suburb um and I live in
the suburbs now it's very weird I don't
like living in the suburbs uh why not
why'd you move why why leave the city
because I got a very good opportunity to
live with in-law situation family that
is very affordable and a very very good
situation for me my partner and my
you're married
uh no I called them my in-laws because
we've been together for nine years you
looked like you had a bra I'm a goddamn
liar you had a brain I'm just like wait
so you don't live in Seattle you're not
married this isn't your real ass name
your neighborhood you haven't been to
all the other neighborhoods you don't
know other big 500 4 500 companies there
who am I even talking
to um I this podcast has changed to uh
un uh un unveil the lies of Rob yeah I I
I I call them my in-laws cuz it's like
shorthand for like my partner's family
we've been together for 9 years we're
we're technically in like a domestic
partnership under the eyes of the law or
whatever are you is that's how it works
right gu I'm sure it's state by state
yeah um so you've been together since
you're 21 yeah wow same age yeah yeah
we're like a month and a half apart oh
that's cute two months apart
yeah um and so it was just a really good
situation for us and um I
Seattle's just one of those places where
you got to you got to hustle to live
there because it's so expensive and you
got to like figure things out and and I
think it's really hard for people who
move away to move back because you need
to like be there to find the housing and
like you know you know what to do and
where to go what's not what's a good
area but not too expensive yet anyone
who's lived there for like like as long
as I have generally like has like
friends and connections that will keep
them there you know like so I can like
you know when this situation ends I will
find another like the Cockroach I am an
opportunity opportunist and you cannot
get rid of me I will like I will not get
priced out of this city you know what I
mean so it's gotten expensive there like
everywhere uh yeah everywhere it's not
very big I mean it's like very dense
it's not what's the population like
700,000 or something oh it's like a mill
but like it's the metropolitan area yeah
I don't know City proper is like 700 I
don't know the demographics I don't know
the company I don't know [ __ ] 145,000
looking it up right now just City proper
pric right rules oh I hate that Trevor
always does that I don't know I just
said that he's always like price is
right dude that this Price is Right
rules makes no sense for anything but
the Price Is Right you know this is why
we need a producer to look at up for us
okay let's see my guess you heard it
here first the population of Seattle
what did I say it was I don't know, I
said 740 okay look at that I can't read
that my eyes are no good
you
737,000 I was off by
3,000 all right that was a shot in the
door uh it's also like a big area
there's a lot of suburbs there's like
there's Tacoma there's Bellevue there's
like other cities like in the area so
it's like I don't know to me it just
feels like a big city but it's like not
that big it's like one of those like
medium big cities and um I mean I'm in
the city every day cuz I work on Capitol
Hill so like and I take yeah either take
light rail in or I drive that sounds
fancy What's with Capitol Hill cuz I
just think Washington DC yeah um it's
like it it was the gay neighborhood like
in the I guess in the 80s and 90s and
like by gay you mean homosexual yeah how
happy sometimes when
this who who in America our grandparents
in 1938 um yeah it was the gay old
neighborhood he was gay and it back in
the 20s it was the Gil neighborhood um
and uh there was was this bump like the
70s gay like that kind of gay I don't
know um but it yeah and it was
like I don't I forgot you don't know the
history don't know the GE exactly
there's like some like you know there's
like oh like Kirk Cain hung out here at
this Diner like it's like that kind of
neighborhood you know like um and I'm
sure like every place claims that kirco
ban hung out there or whatever but um
and it's uh it it's yeah it's like Bane
spilled his milk here once yeah it's a
bar neighborhood it's a you know like
it's I would say like people who aren't
okay so a lot of people come into my bar
I work in a bar I'm a bartender okay
you're not going to say which one I work
at the Cha Cha Lounge oh you'll say that
but you won't say cha cha Lounge like
chaa real smooth out exactly okay and uh
and people will come in from out of town
and you know they'll ask me like oh
what's uh what's you know what's good
around here you know um blah blah blah
and I'll be like well you know like
there people will say like oh I I was
sent to Capitol everyone told me to come
to Capitol Hill because like that's
where it's popping off like that's where
the clubs are or whatever and I'm like
yeah but it's like
Monday or whatever you know I'm like
you're not going to find anything this
isn't la like you know like we're a
secret Podunk town and everything closes
at like 10: p.m. on Monday you know like
I was like you're in the wrong
neighborhood you say secret what Podunk
town like like Boonies like it's it's
like you know like we just like like
people go to bed like the train stops
running at midnight on weekdays I get it
you know it's not things go down early
it's not a 24-hour like you know like
New York never sleeps Seattle sleeps a
lot New York I would say the only places
I've been to that feel like not all of
it but a majority or chunks of the city
are going 24/7 7 days a week would be
like New York La New Orleans and Miami
there's a chaa lounge in
LA and uh owned by the same people it's
like our sister bar and they have a DJ
seven nights a week like and and it's
like you know and I'm like what's that
like we're not even open on Sundays what
is it like to go out like Mondays and
Tuesdays and wed it would be great for
me oh yeah you stay up late yeah it
would be great for me if I had something
to do I can't even go get something to
eat what's your vitamin D intake like
cuz you stay up late and you go to and
you sleep in late cuz you have your job
I mean you don't need to see the sun
right it's optional you do need to see
this on you do need Vitamin D look at me
I'm not like I'm not pasty white you
need you need that that D that vitamin D
yeah I need I need that D that's true um
I I don't know like I I that's just the
thing is that like I don't see the sun
anyways like for you know from like
between November and March because it's
just raining the whole time so what does
it matter if I'm awake at 3:00 a.m. or 3
p.m. what's the difference the sun is
still there is there daylight can you
see outside it's just gray and raining
but like
today uh out like here in Chicago yeah
here in Chicago it is gray and raining
right now but there's still sunlight
it's just diffused it's still hitting
you though you think that you are
actually getting the benefits of the sun
even if it's pouring rain and you have a
hood up yes more than if you're you're
wearing a big hat and a jacket more than
if you're just in a dark basement so the
the like the like five square Ines of
your face hands and face that is exposed
to the and eyes it's something it's
better than nothing well that's why you
know there's a dip in the winter for
everyone people get more sick people
gain weight of that so like December and
January are like the busy season for the
music scene in in Seattle like there's
so many shows happening like so I don't
I don't know if that's true I feel like
I feel like everybody during the summer
who are you talking you're talking about
young people I'm talking about like 50
60 70 year olds I'm talking about the
old people young people like you yeah
I'm about you're like three or four
years I'm a little old I tell my
students like listen I have two rules
talk to me like I'm 80 and no acronyms
okay like those are my rules no acronyms
what do you mean you know people just
say like you know BFF like I'll keep it
simple but you know sure like you don't
know what BFF means want to be confused
but they'll say there's so many young
acronyms like just stuff I've never
heard of they'll Shand everything those
lazy bastards they'll Shand everything
I'm like can you just say it because the
time in takes you to explain it to this
old fool which I am you could have just
said the man squad uh see double time
right yeah I don't know what you that's
from the
[Music]
office crisis management Squad front and
center exactly that episode where he
keeps doing that right yeah I'm just
like just no acronyms and talk to me
like I'm an old man because I and your
students are like traditional College
age yeah between 18 and 25 I'll get a
couple that are probably like in their
late 20s I've had one that was like in
their 50s one in their 40s but it's rare
most between 18 and 25 I just like the
idea of like a bunch of 19-year-olds in
a room with one 50-year-old guy they're
all on their phones and he's just like
staring asking questions and taking it
seriously following all the rules and
shows up every time you and him are the
only two people in the room and there's
like a bunch of 19-year-olds like just
scrolling I love I love and and
definitely uh get frustrated with it but
I do learn a lot it keeps me young and
sharp I'm aware of a lot of the
Technologies going on but what I have
noticed is the not to toot my own horn
of my generation but the millennial that
1980 to
1996 era because we were integrating
slowly from analog to digital technology
from you know from tube to transistor to
you know to
microprocessors we had to learn how to
interface from an analog to digital
world we know how to do the digital
thing in an analogous way where we can
make sense of stuff we had to know about
kilobytes megabytes gigabytes and
understand computers and how to make
signal flow work with TVs and Stereos
and whatnot because we've gone all
Wireless and cloud and uploading and
downloading with large uh capacitance
now with um with like terabyte hard
drives and whatnot students don't have
to worry about any of that stuff they
could just everything can just be sent
cloud drive without worrying about data
uh rate compression rate ratios they
don't have to worry about any of that
stuff cuz it's gotten so big when this
technology first came out you had you
know floppy discs kilobytes of size you
can hold so you had to take size into
consideration you couldn't just do
whatever you want all the time there was
no Cloud to save to you didn't have
phones that have terabyte solite hard
drives on them now uh you couldn't store
stuff on Google Drive so what a horrible
world we lived in what I'm saying is we
were with the Apes back then you know
they're really good at certain things
but they're terrible and this is what
I've seen Universal universally this is
anecdotal but this is what I've
witnessed with hundreds if not thousands
of people in that age group at this
point they're really really bad
with understanding how things work
fundamentally and how to do things in a
physical world because they've never had
to so it's not their fault it's just
it's part of their upbringing they never
have to if you go back further behind us
everyone knew how to do stuff in an
analog world really well and they
couldn't figure out digital stuff so
we're in this weird transition period if
we're about the same age where you grew
up learning how to physically have to do
the thing and integrated with technology
so now when you work with technology you
can kind of make sense of both sides of
it I guess the question is would you
rather though be a like live in a world
where you can make a table or live in a
world where you can make a meme you know
what I mean grandma can't make a meme I
Grandma be making tables all day I'd
rather know how to do both so I try my
best to know how to do both and not be
married to either but defin convinc that
um I I understand your premise and the
explanation I I'm not convinced that
it's true no like I don't know if I know
a lot of really stupid old people like
that are no no I'm not I'm not saying
they're smart I I also know about St are
just like you know that likeed to like
learn to do anything no of course that's
what I'm saying that that you're proving
my point they stopped when it came to
the digital world they're really good
with the analog world you gave them a
home sound system from 1980 and they're
setting that thing up we're paying
somebody too they're setting it up dude
they're like okay that speaker you going
to plug the cable in RCA okay soon as it
comes to HDMI and Bluetooth and
connecting to Wi-Fi they're stupid as
hell and then you get to the Millennials
we had to learn how to do both and
integrate because we were part of that
we were losing the analog world we're
growing out of it and integrating into
the digital world into streaming into
OLED TVs into smartphones now the
generation born in the last 20 years
they missed the analog world they didn't
have to learn integrate because they
missed have that that era of time to
integrate and now they're just into the
digital world so they're really good at
understanding the internet and all the
things about it and the reddits and this
and the for CH the whole thing they're
like Wizards with it and gaming and you
name it but when it comes to hey how do
you plug this thing in and make this
signal go through and what does that
data rate mean and all that they're lost
because they never grew up having to
understand it because everything's
always been really high quality in their
life in the digital world high quality
great internet speed no SBC Yahoo dialup
from 1999 not Napster because you have
Spotify now for a couple bucks a month
streaming high quality audio now on
iTunes music or apple music you can get
wave audio streaming Untitled too this
is unheard of when I was downloading
music illegally on
app right years you know why it's news
to you cuz how old are you 30 all right
you see my point if you were 18 you
probably would have found that out by
now cuz it's the digital world and
you're know really well I'm tell I only
know it CU they told me this is my
podcast and I'm interviewing you so I
but I I'm just kidding I do have a
question though about uh since you're a
teacher by this way is all my anecdotal
thought and experience I'm not saying
this is Def well okay and this is this
gets back to that so this is paralleling
like your this theory that you know yeah
or you know like that premise um so you
teach audio stuff yeah and uh this man
I'm looking at the camera now for you
listening at home this man teaches six
different classes at two different
universities um the busiest man in
America and uh you so um a lot of like
this like audio stuff
um like are these people who are
interested in recording acoustic
instruments and bands like I see a drum
kid over here and guitars and like
traditional like instrument bands you
know the American rock band sound or are
they like interested in making like
beats or electronic stuff
when you said that give you an exact
number that's loose and not exact so
I'll contradict myself I would say it's
um 802 maybe 75 25 75 into the digital
domain of midi sampling um sound mashing
of mixing and taking stuff like ripping
stuff off the internet making new music
out of it which is kind of like sampling
but a little bit more pirate piratey um
digital age not many people have
microphones I constantly berid my
students like buy a microphone I don't
care if it's a used sm57 for 50 bucks on
eBay get it wait they don't own
microphones like barely anyone has a
microphone this is my brain exploding uh
that's crazy when I went to Columbia
when I started there I had like 15
microphones I had the 414s year we
recorded with today already yeah my
professor's like you have all this I was
like bro I I'm serious I feel like I I I
consider myself to be a lite and I like
yeah like I I use no less than three
microphones if I'm just demoing
something a lot of it is DJ
producer um samples production based
electronic music which is fine it's all
I love that stuff it's great stuff I'm
I'm not against that at all I'm saying
you should do both right you need to
know both uh especially yeah I you know
um I think that um it's a there's like a
real they want to be we want to be them
they want to be us thing going on in the
music world right now where like it
seems like a lot of I'm hearing these
like white Indie artists like start to
use autotune stylistically in a way that
like you know like hip-hop artists would
and I'm starting to see like you know
artists like Travis Scott um team up
with Tam and Paula and uh James Blake
and like you know uh these more Bona
like these like you know acoustic Indie
artists and I think it's it's it's like
it's beautiful but it's also like
okay you know you can just you don't
have to I I get like we're all like
excited about genre blending and the
different things going on but sometimes
I do feel like a weird pressure to make
things that I wouldn't just naturally
make because there's so much that's so
accessible now
um you know I I have had to like you
know stop myself from making like weird
you know Alex G ass choices on um you
know on certain things that I'm working
on where I'm like but I'm going to make
it weird man I'm going to like do a
crazy vocal effect and it's like yeah
it's it's not if it's not the right
choice for the project then don't just
do it for the sake of making a stylistic
choice but um yeah I don't know and and
conversation there yeah I also I also
consume uh like a lot of hip-hop a lot
of uh I I am I am we were talking in the
car earlier about I was like are you a
heavy rotation guy or like a new music
everyday guy um and you were you you
said both but I I tend to be like a new
music every day like it I I am obsessed
with the idea that you could never you
could listen to new music all day long
and never have to hear the same song
Twice abs for your entire life that's
true for music it's true for Fine Art
it's true for writing and reading it's
true for film and television I mean
there's a big pet peeve is when people
especially our age they're getting to
that point where they're still living on
that high of when they were 18 and
discovered some cool music and they
think there's no there's no good music
there's no good movies I hear it all the
time like yes there is there's amazing
music coming out there's amazing movies
amazing films amazing television it's
just how you get to it is slightly
different what it looks like is
different and if you don't grow with it
and be open and accepting to it you will
build up that membran that keeps you
insulated to your old music there it's
very it's very new to me like as I just
crested 30 that like the like the idea
that people uh are are like now stuck in
one like era of Music it takes until our
age start happening yeah that's like
that's new to me and I'm just like oh my
God God help me like cuz like if that
ever happens to me because I am so
obsessed I'm like I I like I might wake
up today and be like I don't know I've
never heard Cameroon whistling music
before like that's like I'm going to
check that out like that's the you know
that's good though it's healthy to keep
growing with and I love hip-hop shows I
think like hip-hop is in a very special
place right now in terms of um you know
uh how excited young people are about it
and like when I go to these shows and I
just went and saw this artist called
jalile uh I went with my friend and
bandmate from fell off Ryan who we were
in the 21 plus section it was like a 21
plus and all ages venue and uh where
he's grabbing a drink and I'm looking
around and I'm like oh my God Ryan we're
in the parents section we're the oldest
people who are here for this show and
not for our kids to go to this show and
uh so you know we had to go out and mosh
and like you know the kids I I you know
um I don't know how much of like I have
left in me of being able to like go to
like a hip-hop music festival and like
actually like be sardined in with a
bunch of kids and like in just because
I'm I'm getting physically exhausted
from it and like my knees are really
starting to hurt like and stuff um
you're also tall you're blocking those
poor kids view uh well you know if
you're at like a big huge Like Music
Festival the stage is so tall it doesn't
yeah and also like if you go see like
Playboy cardi or something it's like
Circle pits everywhere so they're not
even concerned about like looking at the
stage so much as we are just like it's
about the atmosphere and stuff yeah it's
like uh it's like what new metal was you
know that that
Trevor and I had a fun Creed night a few
days in a row like last month where we
just once in a while you just go back I
mean I haven't Listen to Like that music
or that band in 20 years and you go back
and I still know every word every Guitar
Lake and it's hilarious I work a lot of
karaoke nights uh at at every bar that
I've ever worked at but at the one I'm
at and uh there was a guy singing can
you
take but he kind of he sounded like just
his natural voice he sounded like Billy
Cor
and I was like oh my God this is if this
was just a little
slower it sounded like a Smashing
Pumpkin song yeah Billy Corgan Smashing
Pumpkins
yeah I like not my jam I like I like the
the first three Smashing Pumpkins album
a lot
okay my partner Jeff's really like uh
very influenced by Smashing Pumpkins and
that heavy guitar stuff it's not not
really something I I didn't I certainly
like never listened to like Nirvana in
high school or anything I never like
Nirvana and honestly all of the like the
bands that you think of when you think
of like a Seattle documentary about
music were never really on 1987 to 1994
like that yeah I like uh I like you know
Unwound and like you know botch and like
what about like 9in
nails no uh Stone Temple Pilots Jane's
Addiction n Sound Garden no absolutely
not raage Against the Machine
none of them none of the above yeah you
know I mean in high school I was Guns
and Roses in high school like the first
three like death cab records were my
Bible um and uh and like you know Minus
the Bear um minusa yeah Modest Mouse uh
that that was all I mean those are all
Seattle bands too um so like that you
know that was very much my my wheelhouse
and the the stuff that in informed how I
make music now so you would have enjoyed
a lot of the shows I went to in the
2000s cuz every band you just named I I
saw in their time back then all a lot of
other bands adjacent to that and smaller
shows before like they got a little too
big enough time went on when they made a
lot more money from their their music
but one of my favorite shows I think you
would enjoy was Ben gibbert solo at the
Metro in 2007 and it was amazing and he
play I think he played with Damen rice
there was this time was a good time
there was like a boom in the early 2000s
where you could just like did you ever
watch the OC that was probably a little
okay was that yeah it was on when I I
think between the ages of like remember
the the the Adam Brody character Seth
Cohen and like what his aesthetic was uh
there was a time where you could just
like look like that dude and make like
pretty mediocre indie rock and like and
you know and you could get your song on
like a Target commercial and like M and
like have pretty moderate success and be
on like get guest spots on TV shows and
stuff and have absolutely no sense of
like personal style and fashion in terms
of clothing like you look back at what
those dudes were wearing it is a damn
shame let me try anything like uh like
van slip-ons that were like plaid and
like an AR an Argyle Sweater and like
really like ill-fitting blue jeans we
got to name these bands we got to try to
we I'm not going to do that I'm not
going on I'm not putting anybody on
blast you know who you are grizzly bear
okay I'm I'm starting off with these
bands from that era um the honorary
title do this all day talk if we're
talking like specifically like yeah like
OC adjacent bands like Rooney would be
like the classic example um but yeah I
mean even largely like uh you know like
I don't want to put minus the bar on
blast cuz like those guys very much like
we're not put in a bad way this is funny
like those guys are around like I see
those guys I love those I'm I'm poking
fun at these bands that inspired my life
I love these bands I've seen these bands
live I'm laughing at what people dressed
like 20 years ago when they were
hipsters in Indie rocks they weren't I
mean I guess they were hipsters their
version of hipsters they didn't dress
like hipsters I mean I think I think
hipsters have been
changing for the last probably since
they came out I'd say about since the
mid-50s right wouldn't you say that's
when it started like greenage Village
like beat Nick poet like alen gin
Ginsburg gin Ginsburg and um and like
Bob Dylan and and um Lenny Bruce like
these people of you know that era late
50s early 60s and it I think it's it has
to lot a lot to do pop culture
influencing for or influencing forward
and trickling down post World War II um
like post World War II fashion changes a
lot because of fabric shortage that's we
get shorter skirts for women yeah well
also like uh the idea of like um you
know prep and uh and like athleisure
wear coming into like being able to like
wear KS and sneakers and like yeah
that's all like back half of the century
stuff um and here I am today wearing
like yeah like a crew neck
sweater and yeah um to be fair I've been
wearing my new B this is a beautiful
polo by the way I love this shirt I
pride myself on my stripes and patterns
um you know uh uh but even just talking
about the the idea that uh things you
know being stuck in an era of music or
thinking things were better at any given
time I'm also seeing a lot of people who
are really frustrated about um how
difficult it is to make money in music
yes and um you know I never respond to
these kinds of things on like social
media CU I don't want to be that guy but
I'm als I'm just not convinced that like
things are any like better or worse on a
net level than any other given time in
in the recorded music in the world of
recorded music industry it's just
different it's like everything is like
more micro scale
you know little CMS and like uh you know
uh and and and lower Al together than
like I I guess yes in the 90s and early
2000s you could like get a record deal
and uh and you know make money a as a
musician but
like just like the way that you
know the work of intellectuals is
largely what survives and therefore what
endures in terms of Fine Art in like
record Ed music art world what indoors
is like what we remember so we only
remember the people that were successful
and made money and so we look back to
that and think oh things were so much
better back then because you could
actually make it if you were like an
indie band and I'm like you still can
it's just different and the ways that
you get seen are different the ways that
you can Market yourself I think people
are frustrated by the idea that you have
to manage and Market yourself all the
time right you don't have an anr and a
manager but you don't need one you just
are that so that's why you don't have
one it's not because you know unless you
make enough money you can't have one and
you don't have to go on the phone you
can stay away from that but yeah that's
that's all you and just this idea that
like you know that like Spotify is the
devil but band camp is the saint I'm
like I don't make a penny from from band
camp streams so you know like and I make
a fraction of a penny from Spotify so
it's like you know I would rather have
people listen to my music on Spotify
than band camp because that's also the
way that um you get hurt on you know
Spotify radios or related to artists or
whatever and and it's it's how a lot of
people discover new music and the
accessibility to new music is I think a
great thing it's like fantastic I you
know you had a um Molly Compton on uh
she's uh does vinyl stuff right and she
was talking about I actually was like
listening to her talk about the way she
consumes music through vinyl I was like
I could never do this but I'm fascinated
by it and I love that like that she just
like puts on a record like she has like
a thousand records or whatever and
she'll just like pick one out and put it
on like well she's like getting ready in
the morning or whatever and like and
meanwhile I'm like the first thing I
like look at in the morning is like the
hip-hop charts and like you know I'm
like listening to whatever the latest
releases for hip-hop is so it's like
just different ways of consuming music
um but I don't think one's more virtuous
than the other no they're different
different intentions different outcomes
different
states of mind you're in when you do it
I mean I love vinyl I have a ton I mean
between my roommate and I probably have
800 9900 records and all very very good
ones spanning you know 100 years I have
a ton of local and touring artist
records and I love them and I listen to
them with certain intent like later
today when we're hanging out we're going
to listen to records the whole night and
but when I'm driving or walking which I
do every day or do or doing um errands
around the house I have my earbuds in
and I'm listening to Spotify MH and when
I'm with a person and I want to show new
record I'm not now I'm not doing a
playlist or random I'm putting on a
record on Spotify there's certain places
where I do certain things but at home on
a sound system nine times out of 10 it's
going to be you know vinyl but I keep up
with buying new ones right I do
sometimes feel like an outlier in my
world view of how the of um of existing
with how music consumption has has
changed and and how much I value it and
and actually like think that a lot of
things have gotten better um in some
ways I like think that Spotify saved the
music industry and that streaming s like
when people talk about how it killed the
music indust I'm not saying it like
literally saved but I'm saying it made
things like net net positive rather than
net negative um you
elaborate uh that like the accessibility
to music is a good thing and the fact
that you don't have to go to a record
store and buy a record to hear like that
you can um you know that you can just
like as a music listener it's certainly
gotten better you know yeah and fight
for like radio play and stuff like back
in the 90s right if I want but it also
also hyper hyper saturated like it's a
lot to par so you have you are a music
enthusiast a music consumer at a high
level that makes it part of your hobby
passion and like homework to like dig in
and do that stuff but that would have
happened either way because technology
March in forward would dictate that more
people would have access to uh like
electronic instruments and means of
recording M where as like recording used
to be a big deal sure now like that
would have happened either way the
streaming thing wouldn't have
necessarily happened either way but
there still would have been so much more
people with the ability to make recorded
music as art either way
so um you know I I think it's just like
okay so if you're frustrated that like I
I I just wonder if like people who are
super frustrated that they're they're
not being seen or heard or getting paid
um because of the oversaturation have
have maybe just never looked in the
mirror and thought is my music that good
say am I
ugly cuz that's a whole I can talk about
that subject for a long time I'm like
I'm like looks are huge sure and I I
think that in every industry yeah I I'm
just like coming from one ugly person to
another
okay if I'm just like you know maybe
maybe your shit's just not that John
Blaze so like people don't [ __ ] with it
like and I'm sorry but like like it's
like not just because you made music
doesn't inherently give it value or a
random Factor there's that that Rando
factor that you can't like why is beat
happening popular but not some other
jaon banging on an random there is a
random thing um but it's always been a
factor there's always been the random
factor in all of it
and I'm not saying the people who do
randomly blow up aren't skillful it's
just they have they probably haven't
been doing that long well you got to
work hard the work has to be good and
and and the rest is luck right so some
there are some anomalies because of the
way an algorithm and the internet works
that they didn't work that hard they're
okay and they still blow up mhm it's the
right look the right age the right place
the right the right Tik Tok uh viral
video you name it but that was true of
all times there's always
it's been for a while there's always
going to be mediocre bands that somehow
like rise to the Sur what wonders that's
what we used to call them watch VHS like
I love the '90s or I love the 8S or
whatever version they do and you will
have the smells like sex
and what other songs do they have I
don't know but that song probably pay
for their mortgage and stuff so one hit
wonders have been around for a long time
now on now another thing that's changed
and I don't know whether it is for the
better or worse but I think it's
interesting to observe is the length of
releases the runlength of releases so
we're seeing a lot more really random
like three song EPS six song albums
seven song albums singles yeah now you
can have an album two s releases right
like and and we think about okay well
why were records 38 why why was the
traditional album 38 minutes it's got be
under 40 phant record
because of the vinyl industry so those
were the constrictions back then we just
have less constrictions now around it's
so much more free form in every way
genre runtime all the choices that you
can
make does that mean it's better or worse
it's not it is it just is it's just
different so uh so you know now like my
brother and I I I would be um it would
be ridiculous of me not to talk about my
new project now that I'm here because it
just came out um my brother and I are
launching a band called Sunnyland right
now what's your brother's name my
brother's name is Will Will and um and
uh we've been making music together
since high school we started this new
band and it's it's very much our project
it's like the two of us making the music
that we grew up with and and uh and you
know kind of no one to tell us no no
other band mates it's just like the two
of us like big record ex telling you
know yeah right yeah that was never the
issue it was the it's it's it would be
like yeah it would be other people
people who are like creative uh
contributors to the project and you know
it's just us so it's really exciting um
and we made the decision that we're only
going to put out four song EPS period
unless like unless like maybe yeah a
label wanted to put out a full length
and wanted to press final for us then we
would talk about either putting together
a collection of songs that we've already
C recorded onto a 12 in or uh doing you
know a new record Al together um but for
now while it's just us just doing our
thing and having fun and making this
music that we enjoy um we want to put
out four song releases and uh it's it's
a lot easier to bite off if the
expectation is not there that you need
to make you know 38 minutes of Music um
then uh you can spend like that much
more time on four songs and really be
happy with them uh you know a week in
the studio than having to feel like you
really need to bite off this whole
project of like nine songs and spend
$10,000 doing it uh you know you can
make four songs for a lot less money and
spend a lot more time and Care making
those songs the best they can be and
largely people are probably not going to
make it through your whole full length
if you're not if you're you if you're
not on a mainstream radar you know so uh
so that's been like that's a cool that's
a cool thing and I'm not yeah I don't
really feel one way or another about it
it just sort of is and uh um yeah I do
you have any vinyl my so Rob joins my
the Rob joins like project has been
pressed to vinyl and that was through a
small label called lovers weekend um and
I that's pretty cool I have not checked
the spreadsheet lately but I'm sure that
like I'm going on mic I'm saying it to
all you people out there listening I
don't think I've made the money back yet
that it cost to press the vinyl let
alone what it cost to to record the
record not who does am I about that
because I'm like people should have
realized that my [ __ ] is John Blaze and
that they like should love it I'm like
no it just so happens that you know well
there was a pandemic and a lot of other
reasons why you know I wasn't able to
tour on it or like sell sell out of that
of those copies of the record
um but I'm I'm happy you know I'm happy
that it's on wax and I'm happy that
people can like consume it in that way
um and enjoy it in that way
uh I don't really know like and I had
fun working with the label cuz that
guy's really into vinyl and he loves all
the precious you know like the The
Collector quality of it and stuff I
don't know what exactly what the value
of working with a label is when you're
an artist On My Level other than the the
best thing that lovers weeken and Dent
tapes which is like the um the local
Seattle label that puts out uh cassettes
and they put out a cassette for me the
best thing that they do for me the most
valuable thing is that they mail all my
merch I never have to go to the Post
Office that's great I I I don't like
like like going through the orders and
some people are they love that they love
that aspect of running the label they
like all of the like oh I get to yeah I
get to like write a little note or put
stickers in there or like love the notes
yeah it's fun thanks me I'm like I don't
have time for this [ __ ] like throw in a
goddamn you got time for it don't lie to
yourself toss it in the US in the
mailbox and be on my way uh so uh I'm
glad to have somebody to take care of
that stuff but that's not even like like
what is a label anymore other than just
alone to make something that you pay
back through sales are they providing
you with PR are they providing you with
like social media outreach if they're
not really doing anything for you
otherwise other than just giving you
money that you're you know you're going
to have to pay back in some capacity
just like maybe find a way to you know
if if you have the means to just raise
that money yourself and and have no ties
to anybody else how do how do you feel
about bands that do GoFundMe for
records
anti elaborate uh I know I know I know
plenty of people who have and do I would
never do that tell us more please uh if
I like I said like you're totally
welcome to do that that's your
prerogative I just personally would not
do it um uh I I also don't presume that
anybody likes my music enough to pay me
for it in advance I don't feel like
that's earned on my half like you know
uh yeah cuz if they haven't already you
know what I mean like there's I have
made lots of music over the years and
it's all available it's all out there
for you to hear so if you like it all
right yeah buy my merch because all that
money is going right back into the fund
to make more to finance I self Finance
everything all the recording stuff um
all like yeah um it's all yeah it's all
me baby until yeah DIY do yourself or
until someone does it for us right yeah
I don't think I'll ever do a gofund me
ever again they've never been s I've
never done it for records what ends up
happening is your family and and like
people who love you end up giving you
money yeah um that's but they but yeah
but I'm like okay but then like but I
don't make music for those people MH
like my family doesn't understand
brother does but like my my folks don't
it's a Pity donation you're like oh
Robin is a little thing here like some
distant
relative GL Andy some cousin that like
that this link got shared to like I
don't need them funding my album like
I'll just hustle I'll make them I'll
make the money myself and yeah and yeah
I always found gof fundies to be for
either massive massive projects or like
serious situations like um funerals
serious operations you know things like
that people like who just freak stuff
and they don't have health insurance
they're usually low means of of income
it's a great tool for that it's like
saved people's lives right but for
Middle Ground um middle class
Kickstarter is traditionally like more
used to fund art projects you know
Kickstarter IND goo too right yes yeah
Kickstarter has um like uh prizes you
know or um what's the word yeah like so
if you gifts and prizes yeah it's almost
like a pre-order so just do a pre-order
yeah if if enough people want to hear
your album that they are willing to
pre-order it and that ends up covering a
substantial amount of the cost of making
it great now that being said they might
pre-order it you know well what two
years in advance if you're going to make
the record and then press it to vinyl I
mean
takes a long time sometimes the Cyber
truck you know takes a
while what the Cyber truck the Tesla
cyber truck that's like was people
pre-ordered like three years ago oh sure
it's only a 100 bucks it still hasn't
come out yet so um yeah so you know uh
yeah so there's that I mean okay if you
want to pre-order the vinyl so that you
can cover like up front a bunch of the
cost of pressing um great yeah I don't
have any problems with that I I just
uh you know I also think it's um a kind
of a cloud hanging over your head if a
bunch of
people um donated to your Kickstarter
and are expecting to get their their
prizes or prizes is the wrong word but I
I don't know I like the idea it's fun I
like the idea of like prizes like it's a
carnival like you're going to get a
stuffed Pikachu or whatever if you if
you donate to my next record um but um
you know um I I I just don't really need
like the pressure of family members who
I've never met or or don't really know
that well like who donated to my album
like expecting to get a copy of it later
and then here I I mean we just finished
doing a live session and those songs are
like definitely not for even people who
know me personally you know what I mean
I would rather have people who don't
know me personally listen to and enjoy
my music than people who don't do know
me personally because you have a nice
voice by the way thank you um thank you
dragged across gravel over thank you
very much yeah Rob just did a live
session it was glorious first person is
singing to my new mic sounded good it's
good I will I will know yeah when I when
I hear it back it's a beautiful looking
mic the design of it is very uh it's got
like that faux leather on it if you I
mean it looks like yeah if you put Wings
on that thing I bet it's like I bet it
sails through the air you know it's
aerodynamic it flies it's uh Stevie
Nixon and uh Kevin Parker singing into
those mics from uh D Paulo and uh well
whatever Stevie Nix is doing now I don't
know yeah probably just chilling on her
royalties for quite some time you know a
lot of the people I think that like
started the crusade of complaining about
artists not getting paid were high- paid
artists oh absolutely who saw who saw
their they saw fun La homes go down like
no just crumbling and they scrambled and
they like put out a lot of propaganda
that a lot of like lower lower tier in
terms of visibility
artists uh you know saw like absorbed a
lot of that propaganda and like
reappropriated into I'm not getting paid
enough MH uh maybe maybe I'm just maybe
I'm maybe that's unfair UNF a different
era of selling records that is a that is
something that is completely true bands
have always made money off merch they
still do bands have always gotten paid
to play Sur they still do but where the
difference is between 2000 and before
and now that's just the number I thre
out there but it's hard to say exactly
when is because you could just stream
everything you KN only people I know
just don't buy records or CDs are out
but don't buy records or cassettes CU
it's like they don't have the money for
or just don't feel like giving up their
bad habit to put the money towards art
uh that's a lot of people back in the
day the only way to get music was you to
buy the CD the cassette the eight track
or the
the other thing I see a lot is like
people throwing out these figures that
are like well you know if you break it
all down like it costs like $10,000 to
make a record and like how are you going
to make that back and I'm like okay it
shouldn't cost you
$10,000 records technically after I paid
for everything I've been making records
for free for quite some time especially
if you are a part of your music scene
and you are like up in your music scene
and your music is good people will want
to work with you and they will like they
want to be a part of it and they want to
see that record get made because they
believe in you they're not going to
charge you 10 grand I've made some
epically long time time consuming
records I don't think I've ever made
like over $2,000 on like the longest
form record I've ever made it's probably
never been more than that we're talking
months years of like overdubbing and
just taking our time with it yeah no
it's like I'm not yeah and I'm not like
there are first of all you might have to
lower your expectations that might be it
maybe you're not going to be recording
at Electric Lady Land
or right you know or electrical audio
you know you might have to go down to
the $500 studio and like that's fine
start somewhere but yeah that that's
what I'm getting at is the complaints or
the um the concern with the gofund me
Kickstarter records it's always
something trying to raise 10 15 grand
for record it's like whoa whoa whoa whoa
what are you doing go to the place
that's going to cost you a th000 bucks
or the person who's in a band Who
records a bunch of other bands in your
scene who has the gear and you give him
two grand and there's your record like
easily no no anywhere in this country
you can do that absolutely so when
people want to go to some fancy you know
why they want to do it because it looks
great on the gram another looks really
good on Facebook and the gram that
you're in a real air quotes real studio
uh not to like not not to like total non
Seer but I I was just thinking about
we're talking about all this stuff and
the cost of making like a a record in
which you're ATT tracking uh in which
you're tracking acoustic instruments and
in a studio that looks like the one
we're in now and Etc um is uh the
accessibility of recording and creating
hip hop allows people to do it at a much
more frequent rate uh which is why you
know a rapper can put out like three or
four mixtapes in a year where it might
take a year and a half for a band to
come out with an album I think there's
value in both of those and I don't think
that like I don't think that
the um the the quality or the the
staying power uh is necessarily like you
know um one is like better than the
other or whatever I'm like okay I like
like this rapper that I'm kind of
obsessed with right now that I was
showing you in the car Midwest this kid
is like he's cranking [ __ ] out and it's
like it's all super cool and dope but
it's like there's new stuff out all the
time and he's like we are in kind of a
content creation like world and
Marketplace so the there is value in
putting out music that fast but there
are always going to be you know fans of
guitar music uh who are willing to wait
for the next you know lamda record to
come out or whatever and they're not in
a rush they're not like why the [ __ ] has
lamda not put out another album it's
been two years you know like I just
don't see that kind of like command or
whatever you know it's different for
different styles and also like Playboy
cardi Travis Scott like they they take
[ __ ] three years to put out a record
and those are much more like elevated
hip-hop records there's a lot more like
production put into those they also can
they could afford to take their time
right exactly yeah you know Kendrick was
able to take five years between Dam and
Mr morale like cuz he probably is worth
$100 million yeah he do he could sit for
matter I also understand that it's
actually more financially viable or um
it makes more sense for like um like a
large art artist like you know to um to
just be playing shows all the time
because they're making you know 50 to
100,000 um dollars just for a
performance midrange by the way yeah
well sure I was thinking yeah like yeah
like uh you know like a rapper like so
like Don Oliver or something you know
okay he's going to get paid like he
might be play getting paid like 80 to
play at a festival or something you know
um and who knows how much he's making on
his on on on an album sure they probably
press it to vinyl but like those artists
are making a lot off of streams M um you
know I see a lot of like okay if you
spent $10,000 on your record so like say
there's like somebody saying oh if you
made a record for $10,000 you would have
to get a million streams to make that
money back and I'm like yeah if you made
a record for
$10,000 you should get a million
like that should be that hard for you to
do you're putting in that kind of
quality I know I know bedroom pop
artists from Philly who like plenty of
them who have like more than more than a
million streams per song and they
probably made that record for the cost
of the gear that it
,00 Buck yeah I my advice to musicians
out there is buy a couple microphones
buy an interface buy some cables and
some stands and just make records on
your own and collect stuff with other
people and collaborate and come together
with other likeminded producers ask
questions learn read some books take
some courses get certified watch YouTube
you can do it yourself my advice stop
making music sell all your [ __ ] gear
invest it in my new Bitcoin in my new
coin I've got a great coin for you joins
coin joins
coin uh join do you have any uh
cryptocurrency do you own any cryptocur
currency no I am a gambler do you hear a
lot of the the the tech people around
you talk about it there are no tech
people around me no like where you said
and they go to the bar I don't talk to
those people you just serve them take
their money yeah do they tip well no so
on uh yeah Friday or Saturday night
we're talking like 10% gratuiti really
like when I walk like what I rang from
these people who all make over six
figures each wow yeah but you know you
got to think like I'm I'm I I have like
400 transactions in a night a lot of
those people their mentality is well
everyone else is going to tip this guy
so what does it matter if I give him
nothing you know yeah if I have a night
where it's like I'm only ringing like so
that's if I'm like you know ringing like
um you know $3,000 on one till um with
like three other bartenders behind the
bar with me all with their tills like
but if it's like you know if I'm like if
it's like a slow night and I'm at the
upstairs bar we have two bars at my bar
like and it's like all regulars and I
only ring like $600 I'm probably going
to make 30% gratuiti maybe more so uh
because those people they know me and
I'm giving them more like FaceTime like
what's the biggest tip you ever
got
um during right before the pandemic uh
when when it was clear that actually the
night that everything shut down was my
birthday um birthday March 15th 16th
yeah was close right uh yeah or the yeah
the day before my birthday whatever it
was gu is weird uh yeah it I definitely
remember that it was my my birthday was
the day that they came in and said it
was Monday the 16th right I guess yeah
and they came in and they said we're
shut down this is the last night whever
that bar never reopened uh that was a
gay bar that I was working at and uh and
a guy who owns another gay bar one of
the like other like uh bar owners in the
neighborhood came in and uh gave me like
$150 $200 tip you know on his like two
drinks or whatever because like he was
worried about me 2,000% tip or something
um yeah shout out so Alex the Admiral
he's a great guy out of curiosity Billy
what' you say say shout out to Alex
Billy that own Admiral in West Seattle
who gave $200 tips uh also I have been
given a watch I got a I got a
watch it was a it was a citizen but it
was a nice gold watch a watch yeah it's
probably worth like1 $150 interesting
tip sorry I forgot my cash at home but
here's my watch no I told I was just
chatting up with this guy he was really
really nice I like watches and uh I was
telling him I was showing him a watch
that I was thinking about getting and
and uh and I was like I really like your
watch it reminds me of this other other
one that I've had my eye on and he said
you and then on his way out he was like
you know what man just take this cuz he
was a rich guy you know he was like I
don't know he just we really hit it off
and so he just gave me his watch I still
have it it's a great watch if I was a
very wealthy person like billionaire
level I would have so much fun with
blowing people's minds with tips and
like donating and stuff you know like
you see that person on the stade that
just looks looks coherent and whatnot
they just need a little bit of money and
you just I'll just give like $1,000 just
10 100s just give him a stack and walk
away I just like walk up to a uh you
know to a guy that's in a tent and be
like here's a watch man no here's a d do
a house I would just mess with people
just like over the top I me that's not
sustainable you don't want no I'm
talking I'm Bill I'm like Jeff Bezos
like Elon Musk like just hundreds of
billions you would never be that because
I know but if I was this is how I get
back you never would because you're a
good person you sound like Trevor he
always gets mad whenever I do
hypotheticals he can't this this my
brain does not well you're not an only
child I called the only child look you
you don't get to be a billionaire by
being a good person the two are mutually
exclusive you cannot be a billionaire
and a good person at the same time F
okay I got a trillion dollars in the
bank right I'm messing with people I
every tip is like 10 grand no matter
what it is I buy a coffee at the local
coffee shop there 10 grand for everyone
just messing with they're like confused
like they think it's illegal like no
it's fine just doing it all the time so
much fun I don't like this there are
people that do this on YouTube and it
makes me very uncomfortable I would go
above and beyond like way more than like
a Mr Beast thing like just where someone
is like I'm going to buy an entire
grocery store I'm like this is not
you're doing this out of vanity this is
not actually like helpful or sustainable
for helping Community would buy anything
I would just give people stuff all the
time all the time you just be like just
a maniacal Willy Wonka just handing out
bills like that why why not do something
that's more sustainable I would do that
too I would have I would start and and
have events and whatnot and you know
everyone clap when I walk around you
know just imagining you going like full
like like like benevolent Mr
Burns SMS yeah and like I'm I'm just
like you don't need to do that Rick
Steve so I live in I live in Shoreline
and just north of me and Edmonds Rick
Steve do you know Rick Steves um it's a
travel show guy okay through Europe
through the back door with Rick Steves
okay and he bought um I would say he's
like Rich necessary I mean he's like a
successful you know public television
personality he does well I'm sure he
bought uh like a a motel uh up in Edmond
and repurposed it into a women's shelter
like that's and and like it's a
sustainable thing that I defit do things
like that why don't that's some real
that's some real like walk in the walk
in the walk you know [ __ ] I wish more
people did that that have the means to
you know if you think about what Jeff
Jeff Bezos like gives away charitably
like his philanthropic and you know um
Endeavors are like me giving $5 to a
panhandler
is on ratio like percentile wise is more
than he's ever done like period like
trust me I know I know I I I don't have
a lot of money so I give my
time my education and my um life life
abilities to people I also think that e
like uh even like if you were to total
up all of your gear and add that into
your you would be like net worth
um you giving that away would be less
valuable than than you like what what
you do which is like give the like the
music Community an opportunity to do
things absolutely using this space and
this gear and your knowhow to do all of
that stuff you can't even you can't put
a dollar amount on that no I mean that's
what I've been doing for you know 13
years is that yeah and and uh that's
that's my way of understanding how to
give back because I don't have the means
I I don't come from any means to give
Financial you know to give money to
things so I just give time experience my
my my hands you know my muscles I give
what my body like it's Priceless so I
could just do that this is Ben's body
broken for
you that just sounded kind of kind of
creepy Jesus I just came from uh uh you
know so I'm here in beautiful Chicago I
land
yesterday I came uh I didn't sleep all
the night before cuz I closed the bar
caught an early flight I'm just
recounting for the listener at home my
my adventure here um uh I I caught my
early morning went straight to the
airport lost two hours on the flight
here so what time give them a time they
don't know what time it is right now uh
well right now no no in the story you
haven't said a time yet yeah so like I I
flew out at 5:30 in the morning work uh
2 A.M see this is really 2 this
important for the listener to understand
the narrative cuz you didn't say any
times you just said I didn't sleep yeah
closed the bar I went home I got my
luggage uh I got to the airport my
partner drove me to the airport flew out
lost two hours so I landed here at noon
ouch I got um I got here um uh and
dropped my stuff off and Trevor was
working from home so he he lets me in I
come down and I to this nice situation
that you guys have for me to my
accommodations and I tried to take a nap
but I'm in a new city I'm excited I
haven't been to Chicago in 6 years I was
like like I couldn't sleep so even
though I was like I was so tired I was
like I'm going to get up and I'm going
to go to the Art Institute um and I'm
there the art insute of Chicago Museum
yes beautiful overwhelming Museum Top
Notch it keeps winning best museum in
the world too and over again to look at
it's I I got there and I had to I wanted
to get a cup of coffee and I had to go
to the bathroom so I went to like the
cafe or whatever just walking to the
bathroom in the cafe I like just breezed
past you know all of these classic
iconic images and I was just like [ __ ]
me God damn it it has legendary
paintings yeah I'm like spoiling it all
for myself but also just like it was
just like Waltzing past you know some of
the most iconic art in the history of of
humans and um and so then I was like
okay I go back to uh Renaissance and
medieval section which is what I was
most excited to like look at and see and
oh man hour three I haven't even left
the like the the medieval like
Renaissance like Hall and uh and I'm
starting to get real woozy um I I like
it's catching up with me I'm starting to
get I'm starting to hallucinate I'm
starting to feel kind of high and I'm
like I'm looking around at all these um
these students who are scribbling in
their
notebooks um you know they have like
their high school students like having
to do I'm like oh my gosh this must be
horrible for you that you have to look
at this like rendering of the
crucifixion you know the the passion
story or whatever you know um me and and
I'm just like here to just enjoy it and
I don't have to write a paper and then
I'm like okay I'm going to hit the wall
soon I'm gonna I'm going to pass out if
I don't get out of here so I beIN for
the impressionism section well you don't
need much thought for you just go
impression I get to I get to already I
Breeze past
I get to Van go so easy to and and and
I'm and I'm looking at and there's all
these people like taking pictures on
their phones of like you know of of the
bedroom and the self-portrait and
they're like 5T away and I'm like with
my face like 8 Ines from the from the
self-portrait looking at all the brush
strokes and they're starting to move and
I feel like and I'm like looking around
being like these people have never
dropped acid they don't even know you
can't enjoy van go if you've never done
acid and uh and then I and then I was
like tunnel vision and I like and I just
I I booked it out of there I went to the
red line I took the train back here and
um yeah that's my that's my uh that's my
art institute did you go to like State
and Lake Red Line it was um I just
walked up two blocks to um Monroe in
state on road line yeah and uh to 35th
it's great right so convenient it's fast
it is it's a little far the walk from
the station to your house is you have to
walk past the white so Stadium it's like
a half mile not bad the white sock
stadium is called something really weird
it's called like guaranteed R Stadium or
something used to be it used to be us
seller before that then it was kamsky
before that people complain about um you
know uh T-mobile Park used to be safe Co
and Lumen uh used to be sentury link
they called the clink and I'm like I had
no problem adjusting I like what's the
difference between sentury link and
Lumen they're both just you know they're
both like
uh you know phone company monopolies who
cares what we call the Stadium you know
but I I think I might have a problem
referring to uh a ballpark as Guaranteed
Rate stadium that just it doesn't roll
off the tongue it's a weird collection
of the tongue it didn't roll off the
tongue when it was us cell cell I can't
speak I can't speak I can't even say it
kamis I still call it kamsky okay see I
don't like that I don't like like
calling a ballpark something that it
used to be because I'm just like that's
just confusing for everybody just call
it what they call it it's confusing for
people who aren't from around here if
you're from around here and you say
kamsky 100% of everyone knows cuz
they're all from here but like you know
lum's been Lumen for two years people
are still calling it centry link or
whatever people are T-mobile's been that
for yeah for several years uh people and
and and I'm like I'm like what brand
loyalty do you have to safco insurance
company you know that you don't to
T-Mobile it's just what you learn and
you stick to it I at least have T-Mobile
you know Key Arena listen what do you
call the tallest building in the
midwest um it's in Chicago yeah yeah
yeah I know oh God what's it called [ __ ]
me you're hurting my feelings right now
you're hurting my feelings legendary
building now was the tallest building in
the world for like 23 years it's not
it's not SE Sears Tower is it well it is
the Sears Tower but it's actually not
it's the Willis Tower okay but no one
calls it the Willis Tower well it's
Willis Willis Willis Tower yes but it's
the Sears Tower
even though it's not just like it's not
kamsky it's you know great well it's
been Willis for a while like 20 years or
so yeah well thank you for informing me
of that cuz now I'm going to only refer
to it as Willis to you're going to get
jumped and I'm not and I'm not going to
help you I'm like yeah beat his ass he
deserves it I will help you jump in this
poser is from Seattle yeah get out of
here what is this this is an elf bar
what is it strawberry banana but like
what is it I don't know it's not a Vape
it is a vape you were saying everything
nicotine Vape can I try it sure you
don't care yeah go for
it we've holy oh shoot that tastes like
strawberries and bananas careful I know
it tastes like a Gogurt that it does
taste like a Gogurt oh and that's why
the kids are all addicted to that so
dangerous it tasted like a Gogurt man we
don't even know we don't even know the
kind of you know the kind of health
effects that this is going to have on
that is why every time I've tried
someone's Vape which isn't often it's
always blows my mind I'm like the
flavors are potent it's disgusting when
I had a jewel back in back in the jewel
days uh I just had the like original
flavor which was just like it just kind
of tasted like tobacco MH and I was like
I hated I hate the flavors I don't want
I I'll take tobacco or mentol that's all
I want um and uh and then now and then I
like and then I quit you know sigs
vaping all that stuff and I don't really
know how it started back up again but
but I'm just like everyone else I'm
whipped by these Vapes and you know and
I just and you can puff on it all day
long it's like a portable hookah I take
it to shows you know I'm I'm at I'm at
the symphony the other day and I'm in
the bathroom smoking this [ __ ] thing
between between the conero and the and
strain between Moonlight Sonata and
Stravinsky canid and D um fire bird I
think is what I saw yeah and uh and so
I'm at such an interesting Benoy Hall
puffing on my [ __ ] elf bar I'm the
only I'm wearing music you like it's so
wide I'm like I'm like everyone's all
dressed up I'm wearing like a denim vest
and a shirt from the movie Society I
don't know if you know you ever seen the
movie Society it's a melt movie I know I
know Menace is society but I've never
seen and the shirt has blood stains all
over it that's it's like a white shirt
that has like red dye all over it or
it's from the movie yeah I mean it's
just the shirt is it's a it's a fan art
it's a I bought it off of an artist and
um and yeah and here I am wearing my my
vest and my and my Society shirt and my
and my white high tops and I mean it was
a mat so people don't really get dressed
up for the MAA but like there were a lot
of people in suits and I definitely felt
I was like I'm [ __ ] it I'm wearing my
sunglasses inside let's go so did you
you wore your sunglasses inside yeah
interesting yeah I was like I want
what's your vision cuz you were saying
you need glasses what's my vision like
what what what what the numbers that how
should I know oh I haven't been to an
optometrist in 12 years oh okay never
mind then yeah because I'm saying if you
wear sunglasses inside and you can't see
well it's probably really really hard to
see yeah but you don't need to see you
just listen it's true it is it is just
sound yeah I mean I had great seats I
was like five rows back from the stage
so yeah I like to watch the you know the
the the performers you know and that's
what what you go to live Symphony for is
to you know to see it done live that's
the way it's meant to be enjoyed what
was your what has been your favorite
Concert Experience like the best one
you've like in every way all around the
best concert I've ever been to In My
Life yeah that's not fair you can't how
about this one one of your favorites
like you can't do that extremely
rememberable maybe not best but like it
pops in your head when you think of this
question a couple pop up which one just
choose any of them I mean the first one
that just like popped into my brain was
the last time I saw mwai was at the Show
Box uh downtown and um I've seen mwai a
couple of times uh that was really
really great
um you know I one one that comes to mind
is uh Sasquatch 2010 I believe I saw
Bona touring on Forma forever and and he
was on the small stage cuz you know that
was back before you were young 18 I was
16 16 um and um yeah that one that that
comes to mind
um you know and then and then a lot of
them are are like artists that you know
know you like that you probably even
heard of because they're like it was
like my friend's brother in a basement
you know kind of thing or whatever so
it's like the most some of the most
emotional concerts for me like okay so
we just
um Trevor and I just uh were're at this
wedding which is like kind of how we
reconnected in therefore for why I'm
here in Chicago visiting and and uh
we're at this wedding and we were
groomsmen quter quane it was in quane
Idaho and we're we're groomsmen so
there's a there's you know the there
there's like the bachelor party and the
wedding rehearsal day before the act
before all the everybody else all the
other guests show up and the and the
actual ceremony happens and everything
they had a lovely um day for just the
you know just the the the family and and
the wedding party and um the uh the
bride McKenzie her brother Nate who's a
guy I grew up with played oh so Trevor
played I played and then Nate played and
and truly he only did covers which is
like he he makes his own music and he's
a great artist but I I cried I mean it
was absolutely beautiful like that's
that's the most recent performance that
moved me to tears you know um cuz he did
songs that were their favorites you know
and uh and like he just oh my gosh he's
got this kind of James Taylor quality to
his voice that's very like like kind of
soft and round and feels like a like a
like a comfy pillow or whatever and just
a beautiful um so that was yeah that was
really nice
um in terms of
um uh symphonic or you know orchestral
music or whatever I I saw um rock Mon's
first two um piano concertos this year
that was really emotional because the uh
that second piano coner is like one of
my favorite pieces of music of all time
um and you play piano right I do not
like that how long have you been playing
I started taking lessons I was like
seven years old you still do
uh I did take
lessons I I so the the the history of me
like playing piano is um I did like you
know your standard like you know CDE e f
g g g g f e d CCC you know you just
start like with that you know and that's
how you learn to read and everything you
know you're a little baby and then uh
and then then I then then then comes the
bo you know the like the more like the
teaching pieces the bo
and uh and I was taking lessons from the
organist at our church um and uh then I
I had a teacher named Kristen who was in
my mom's band and your mom had a band
we're we're not talking about it um wait
wait wait wait wait wait I'll respect
that but my mom my mom was in a lot of
bands but like Christian rock band yeah
that's awesome she's a jazz singer
though she uh that's great she seems I
thought your mom's I thought you like
saying like that was one of your first
band names like my mom's like the band
name is called my mom's band that is an
it's an okay I didn't say it was good or
bad name I just thought mean then I
realize like Oh you mean like your mom I
mean I'll say like anyone listening free
to use my mom's band it's out there you
know your with Ben's permission are you
okay with I'm fine with it intellectual
property I have a I have a lot of band
names that I like you know um but wait
so your mom cuz I always say there's
only like there's only like five good
band names and they're all taken you
know what I
mean um man like probably like duster
that that's a good band name yeah duster
Unwound great band name um yeah you know
what I mean uh I feel like I can predict
the style of Music These are so far the
seeds the seeds is a great band name um
so far you're 0 for three you don't like
any of these band names I think they're
fine but you're like there's only five
great ones not great oh said five good
the rest are like just passable or or
range from passable to terrible good
band names out there name them I think
Sonic Hugh is a pretty cool band name bo
you don't because you don't like 90s
music that's why I love Sonic Hugh it's
a fine band name you don't think it's a
good name I think it's a really
interesting name is is I mean obviously
it probably wasn't when they were around
but like youth is way like played out in
in oh yeah that's I'm saying relative to
the time yeah 1981 no one in the world
has a band name like that um Talking
Heads is not too bad it's pretty Talking
Heads is good not too bad uh radio isn't
that too it's not too bad for how
popular is it's not the best but it's
not bad fine just makes me think of the
iron ran novel Fountain Head
um if Nirvana didn't get so big if you
were to keep it just like underground
like a garage Rock punk rock grun rock
band it's not a bad name cuz who in the
world even knew what that meant in 1989
we have no internet no one could Google
Buddhist information Buddhists knew well
they knew but like that's that's an
interesting word and they were like they
were like man you CED our stees you know
what I'm saying that's like a new word I
don't know if you ever met a Buddhist
but that was Flawless impression have
not met a Buddhist you need to inter
interview one for the Pod something I'm
going to try to do you got Steve Albini
how hard can the dolly llama be just
call up the doll to have my tongue put
in his mouth or
something I might do it cuz I'm not a
child you might do it I would do it I'd
do it the dolly I'd be like I'll do it
if you do it for me doll Lama I'm all
about stories and experiences and tongue
kissing the doll I get to say that the
doll llama sucked in my tongue yeah uh I
don't know I I could live myself okay
new band name Dolly llama tongue sucker
there you go Dolly llama Tong sucker uh
okay so um yeah so the um the
keyboardist in my in my in one of my
mom's like yeah Christian rock bands uh
she taught me um like uh so so her thing
was
um uh bring me chord charts and I
will like teach you how to rever oh my
God okay for the viewer at home Ben is
getting ripped off this [ __ ] nck
Nicki Vape I'm in a candy store with
that thing yeah um so she would have me
bring like death cab songs like chord
charts like guitar guitar um uh tabs and
stuff and we would like reverse engineer
how to play a Ben fold song or an Elton
John song or whatever just from ear
using only the chords
um then I was in you know band and
Orchestra winter drum line you know did
you play piano and
play xylophone vione
monea
morba like wait you're making up ban
phone B so did you go into the
percussion World cuz those are starting
to getting percussive inst uh my brother
was on the drum lines so that was how I
got into marching band and stuff
marching band was awesome so nepotism as
always it's always no yeah right yeah I
I just I was in I was in the pit I was a
keyboardist so that's what they do you
don't March wait did your mom go far
with her music in the in the band she
was in uh let's put it this way a
personal go my mom asked me like what
would it mean wait wait wait let me
guess something sorry to cut you off you
said Christian rock
bands uh and Jazz but a lot of big band
jazz like Andrew sisters kind of stuff
but Christian
rock you do any Christian why you why
are you so yes why you why you cuz I
don't want people to Google this [ __ ]
it's my bread and butter I grew up on
that so my first people always say like
oh my first concert it was like I was
like 15 or 16 I was like bro I've been
going to concert since I was born it
wasn't until 15 that they went to
secular before that it was all Christian
so because I grew up heavily in the
Christian world and Christian rock so
like you know uh Amy Grant Carmen Avalon
News
Boys Jars of Clay uh I mean Jars of Clay
still [ __ ] can we just talk about that
hey we're talking Christian don't bring
the f word in
here they [ __ ] for Jesus dude you know
what I'm saying like the bands I just
named I can I I know a lot of that era
the 9s Christian rock alterer rock used
to always go to this Christian music
festival called pulse in South Bend
Indiana um yeah so I was just wondering
switch foot well they Switchfoot was
doing what like pod and like these bands
they're like we're Christian but like
they were just trying to double dip mhm
that's what they were doing like they're
kind of Christian but like you like
they're music you can take either way
depending on how you interpret the and
that's why the music industry now is
broken because Christian crossover bands
don't have a chance anymore that's for
all you listeners out there thinking oh
Rob thinks that the music industry is
better I did my back hurts oh what do
you mean it hurts I just got to lean
forward do you need this to go up this
is fine and then way you could SK up
closer I don't all right this is no
editing no editing on I want you to be
too out of frame bending brains we don't
edit here that's one rule um yeah yeah
for all you people thinking oh Rob is
like sing for the way the music industry
is now did your play with like those
kind of artists Psych the music industry
is broken because Christian crossover
bands can't make it in this world
anymore they can't double dip they have
to stay in their Lane did Mother with
those bands like not that level no no
she's older than that um she's older
than that how old is your mom uh
68 she would have been of the 80s then
yeah of that era of Christian music
right uh yeah but the but this band it
was a contemporary like Christian music
band whatever and uh so that so yeah so
that's um she was playing for Billy
Graham okay I get it now yeah like
worship yeah worship team kind of music
um and um yeah so that that but I I
always say that that that piano teacher
like Kristen she really unlocked that
like my playing style as it remains to
this day um how I play is because of the
way that she taught me to like to block
chords and stuff you know I do a lot of
like fifths and sevenths and stuff on my
in my left hand and and a lot of leads
on my right you know um and and pretty
traditional like um rock guitar chord
progressions and stuff like that pry on
the on the piano then you've been
playing a while yeah it's it's like yeah
it's second nature to me yeah and you
have training so and you you learn how
to read music and stuff and so this is
the thing is like so I I like I lost the
ability to like read music largely and I
never was very good at it like even when
I was in marching band one of my best
friends was the lead of the of of pit
which is like the the auxiliary that's
on the sideline in front of the marching
band um which is like yeah where I was
like playing you know Vib phone and
banana phone and stuff
and uh and um even even a lot of the
times I would just go over to her house
and she would site read my parts and
teach them to me so I didn't have to
read them because I was just like I
don't [ __ ] have time for this you
know I don't I got I got homework to do
I also I also didn't do the homework so
um yeah so I yeah it's just all ear you
know and I don't really like I don't
really do a lot of covers like uh I'm
here I'm here in Chicago to see one of
my favorite artists Kath Bloom tomorrow
whichever I I have covered a couple of
her songs and I I do covers for like
Halloween sets and stuff like for fun
like fun covers but I'm not really much
of a cover artist but I'm not one of
these people that like sits around
trying to to pluck out like Jeff does
that a lot at home like he'll be sitting
at home like learning how to play um you
know like um like a Neil Young song or
something that's not really what I do
look at my life I'm lot like you you
sound just like him you actually kind of
sound like a you kind of sound like a
creaky Old Prospector like remember when
he took his music off Spotify you're
like well what a move must have been
really hard I got a big pile of gold in
my mind and I'm going to take it away
from spottify I love nothing more than
one really really really really really
really really rich and successful people
do something so darn bold and brave that
doesn't affect their life at all
spotify's trying to steal my gold it's
so goofy like people always respect like
what do you mean these people can afford
to do it it doesn't do anything what I
don't understand about Neil Young it
doesn't do anything like as a as a as a
figure what I don't understand about
Neil Young is is he's like all about
like audio file [ __ ] right like he's
like all about like it has to be the he
like designed a thing that was the most
pure way to like listen to something
it's like the most true way to listen to
a vinyl or whatever and I'm like your
recordings suck like 70% of the time
like listen to the album mirror
ball what the [ __ ] was happening in that
studio like what people need to remember
it sounds like a it sounds like a line
six with the bass knob turned all the
way up spider lion 6 or you know the
spider the LI 6 Spider terrible with the
[ __ ] with the base turned like all
the way up and just FL it sounds ass
it's the worst guitar tone so I'm like
wait you really need like the most pure
way to learn listen to that like you
know what I mean okay and even like on
harvest sure you've got like you
know um you know you've got you've got
the cuts from Harvest that everybody
knows you know Heart of Gold and all
that but like uh you know or uh see the
Lonely Boy out on the weekend that that
acoustic is really crispy it sounds
beautiful really true kind of vintage
beautiful like analog sounding tone but
you get later into the record and
there's like weird like quasi live
sounding recordings where he's like
hitting wrong notes in the solo I'm like
on his most popular record so I'm like
why are you the one that's telling me
the way that that I can't listen to your
music through earphones doesn't get
better
than people who are and and you know
what here I've said it so Neil Young at
me bro at
me
Hit The Vape mic drop I have hit me up
on X bro I don't have much patience for
um big artists that are pushy with tech
and quality and stuff they don't really
know what they're talking about like
they're just artists they're not
Engineers they're not they're not
engineer producers that are trained in
like research this stuff and do the math
and they're not they don't know how to
do any of that stuff and that's fine
that's fine but like no like know that
about them when you listen to them
they're not gods they're just humans
they're promoted at the right time by
the right people and they got the yes
stamp of approval by the industry and
that's about as far as it goes and their
skill and talent that's my word on it
I've heard just as many good musicians
at the lowest lowest Echelon of Fame and
I've heard great ones at the top and the
difference is who's promoted more by the
entities that say they want to the power
as it be it's that simple it's the same
with movies it's it's it's all the same
it is uh it is interesting well we talk
about that with movies that's that's a
hot take but I will say in terms of just
like a solo artist writing music like
the uh like like the people who are like
held as like Gods you know like oh it's
a well it's [ __ ] it's Fleetwood Mack
or it's like you know it's it's Jimmy
Hendricks or oh my God it's Joe Walsh
whatever like I'm like yeah but like you
ever heard of swirlees you know what I
mean the don't even talk about the swir
swirly's the greatest band all time I'm
going to do a session with them shut the
[ __ ] up I'm not going to shut the [ __ ]
up you shut the [ __ ] shut the [ __ ] up
bro I just saw them so I saw them at um
I saw them in Seattle and Bellingham
last time they were on tour which this
is like years ago now it's like five
years ago before the pandemic and uh
you're like the third person in my life
that knows them and they're like and
they and they literally like they rolled
up I I got to the venue and like they
were touring in the grossest like old
ass van and like and I was like and I'm
like this van this band deserves the bus
dude like they need ni po coming down
the stairs upstairs not when you come
down the stairs to our bedrooms come
down I have the swirly poster with the
guy lighting a fire with the spray can
it came in my broke di car vinyl I have
all their vinyl they finally released
two years ago we spent our wild youth
fers in the glitter saloons finally one
of the greatest records of all time it's
it's top top five records for me of all
time one of the greatest openings for a
record of all time the way that record
opens is
mind needs to be on a m rush I'm like
you don't talk to me 65-year-old man you
do not talk to me about the [ __ ]
beetles like I don't want to hear about
it the swirlies are my Beetles the
swirlies are so good so unbelievably
underrated for what they did with sound
in the '90s and they were like that was
happening at the same time as like
[ __ ] Pearl
Jam I don't want to talk about [ __ ]
Pearl Jam I want to talk about sound
garden like I can't I need the S I need
I like those bands too but the it's not
even the swirlies it's just swires
talking about good band names that's a
great band name wish they contined to
like make music and have more of a thing
but what are you gonna do welcome to
swirly's cast the podcast where we talk
about
swirlees I I love them I mean I
literally have met like I said three but
like seven people my whole life that I
always left that PO they one of je
favorite bands he showed me them one it
it was my indicator this it didn't help
me at all in college from 18 years old
to 24 6 years I was single no
relationship when I went to any parties
which wasn't often but when I went out
anywhere the only stipulation for me to
take anybody seriously by that I mean a
woman I'm a heterosexual man is I would
go I'd Lee with do you know the swirlies
and if they said yes I'm going to try so
hard to talk to this person 100% of them
said no so it never work and this is why
you don't deserve love and no one ever
wants to date
you but eventually that came true and
eventually someone did know them when I
was much older mhm and that that was
while I was like wait you do yeah there
are there are a few bands like you know
it's funny duster used to be one of
those bands for me but because of Tik
Tok and how much their music has been
proliferated like in the last few years
it's no longer a metric for like are we
going to see eye to eye about a lot of
different kinds of music stuff and what
quality like what tonality and quality I
like in music that we will like I I know
Kath Bloom is one of those artists like
uh so you know I'm I'm here in Chicago
to visit you and to visit Trevor and all
that to visit this lovely city but the
the like the Catalyst for me coming was
to come see this artist Kath Bloom and
very very unknown I would say I would
say that where's she playing uh she's
playing at The Hideout nice and uh there
yeah small venue exactly I mean dude
she's playing a house show in Pittsburgh
I mean if I if I had known people in
Pittsburgh that would like put me up I
would have gone but I I also maybe need
to like be at a venue so I can like hide
from her and not like cuz it's like a
real metor hero situation that's going
on here so um so I like don't
necessarily want to just be like hanging
out in somebody's backyard with her yet
uh although I do know two people who
have played shows with her so she's just
a person Rob is she though we're all
just people yeah you know I'm saying
like no no Joe Walsh is just a person
don't put anyone on a pedest cath Bloom
is a God don't put anyone so yeah so
like I would would say like in terms of
yeah or like visibility or legendary
status it's probably somewhere like in
the ballpark of swirlees so she is one
of those artists where I'm like if you
know who [ __ ] Kath Bloom is like
we're going to get along I've heard of
her I've never listened to her music do
you want to go to the show tomorrow I
can't I won't be around okay well that
means you're really missing out on a
once in a-lifetime thing here you know
it is what it is till it ain't you know
that's the problem with live music is
that it is uh it is very um it's here
and it's gone you know it's happens one
instant I uh I go to a lot of shows I
have a really cool show I'm going to
next week menit trust do you know menit
trust I do not a really cool like a
Jazz Low fi IND D soft rock I have some
of the records with new ler really cool
band first impression just off the top
of the Dome I don't trust them
why I just don't trust that name man I
trust I was trying to make a joke didn't
it didn't it's all good really good
music I'll show you it later I have the
records from Montreal for The Listener
at home uh you're going to be missing
out on the next like five hours of me
and Ben just screaming at each other as
we like just share music back and forth
wait you've never heard of this manand
wait you've never heard of that band
it's just going to be that for the rest
of the day
so we got a lot of we have enough
records to appease anyone because there
every have all the Styles and genres out
there and yeah I'm I'm happy of my
swirly's collection I have I think I
have four four there three and are you
an Unwound person at all I don't know
you're not really into post hardcore
maybe as much I don't know them okay so
Unwound I it's interesting I've see I've
found that Unwound is like very very
known and regarded in the Northwest it's
actually very Regional uh and I don't
feel like their reach is maybe as wide
elsewhere uh but the people who do know
you know if you know you know talking
about acronyms for uh you know for the
the children um yeah no acronyms here if
you know you know and um and so Unwound
like uh like I would say like leaves
turn inside you is similar to a swirly's
record but the rest of their stuff is
like pretty is like you know drive like
J like post hardcore more more in line
with like you know the the more angular
guitar stuff of like Sonic Youth and um
but they're a great band one of my
favorite bands yeah Sonic Youth I have a
fun story about that let's hear your
Sonic Youth story he's never told on mic
first time you're hearing it people I
think I've told the story well then once
or twice I think this is just redundant
you see that jazz Master over there that
ocean turquoise Jazz Master Bea be
beautiful Heaven Heavenly Angel over
there Legend has it that thirst Moore
Lee Ronaldo when they were in Wisconsin
Milwaukee Wisconsin in the 2000s on the
Sonic Youth 2009 tour which I saw them
at the Vic theater for that they played
that guitar well this is a real um John
voits car George castanza tell you the
story I can go
further I would love to have John vo's
teeth on a
pencil I like Angelina Jolie's father um
so I was in the market for buying a jazz
Master this is December 2011 that's when
I got that back before it was cool to
have
one and I was reaching out to this guy
on eBay who was selling it and at the
time he had a red one matching headstock
a sonic blue one matching on stock and
the ocean turquoise one and he told and
then I was looking at all three it was
at his guitar shop and I was like okay
I'm gonna go up to milwauke to buy it
and the red one was owned by Joe p
pantelon and uh so I reached out to him
and I was like I might I wanted really
wanted a sonic blue one they're more
rare color I wanted it and he was like
oh um it's not available anymore I was
like oh okay I guess I'll just get the
ocean turquoise one then and it's it is
a little mermaid in in like yeah in
color so I can see why it's a kind of a
mermaid color you ocean yeah it's ocean
yeah and the legend has it and he said
thirst Moore and Lee Ronaldo came into
the shop and we're trying out all three
guitars cuz they're known when they went
to cities for picking up Jazz Masters
and jaguars that's why they had like a
hundred of them each I was going to say
like I was not going to be like
particularly impressed if you were like
this was thst Mo's guitar cuz I was like
doesn't that dude have like 12 guitars
on St it up it if it was it would look
hammered and destroyed and I guess they
tested it and tested the other ones they
played it at the shop and they ended up
buying the other two and they left that
one and then that's the one I got so you
have thirst and Mo's sloppy seconds
hanging on your wall yep and you're
bragging about it yep sorry
Kim yeah well you know I think I think
we have one of Chris Walla guitars so oh
yeah yeah I mean we I mean like that's
it's not I feel like as maybe as crazy
just because uh he's like very much just
like I mean he's not a local anymore he
lives in like Iceland or something but
that's where I tracked my record was at
his no at his studio in Seattle oh nice
with him no with a great um great
producer called Sam rosson who is uh an
engineer there and uh yeah and that's
cool yeah a lot of great records have
been made there you know is that where
um um Red Ribbon recorded
there um
I don't think so I think Red Ribbon was
like tracked in um in New York oh okay
with I really like them with what's his
face red ribon cool I have that that
vinyl and uh so I mean you know Red
Ribbon because of Jeff or yeah they came
through 2019 was Jeff with them yeah
okay Jeff was with them they stayed the
night it was a fun time okay good
session man I just don't even have any
recollection of him telling me about
that I mean he must have but um it's
because you're too cool you're too busy
in Iceland with Chris Wall called me and
he's like hey I'm with Ben and I was
like we had a good time Ben [ __ ] who
and I hung up Ben S I said I want a
divorce we're not even
married yeah that was a fun time when
they came through I really really like I
would never go to Iceland no no why
scary white people place I don't want to
go there I Midsummer Vibes Seattle bro
no Midsummer Vibes I don't want to go
isn't Seattle a scary white person
place I guess so that's why people from
Seattle of Seattle that's why people
from Seattle like to go to Iceland so
much because they're like I want to go
to like Seattle but like even more white
guess Seattle's
demographics uh gosh what is the this
has just become like the you know like
Seattle Civics podcast like know your
Civics yeah I live there I don't work
for the city Jesus come on Guess for me
bro guess I don't I don't care to do
that you can't do it I don't it's about
6% white 177% asian about 7% black
really only 6 6.6%
Hispanic 4% Native American .9% Pacific
Islander and 2% other races and 5.6% two
or more
races you heard it here first so about
2/3 ending
brains Seattle
Civics um yeah I don't know if you could
go anywhere in the world where would you
go Ben for how long what's the context
just just go right now yeah like you got
let say two weeks week and a half to two
weeks one
location uh probably
Tokyo okay yeah bit of a basic [ __ ]
choice but you I would go to record
bands though how basic is that okay yeah
see and and here's the thing is that you
probably will is like that's going to
happen the plan is like next year to do
Tokyo hopefully my goal I I'm thinking
maybe doing an Asian tour of
Tokyo South Kore Soul South Korea
Singapore and try to throw
in the Philippines or I was really
hoping you were going to be like I want
to go like recording like you know like
Nigeria or like you know I mean Ethiopia
is possible because of some connections
to that I got connections I might have
connections in Ghana for you yeah if you
want to go to Ghana Togo let's go yeah I
was thinking about going to
ugogo
because I just I want to see those
chimps man after watching chimp I don't
know I don't have any like music
connections there but like you know I do
a podcast with a
chimp we were watching uh for the
listener at home we're watching uh chimp
chimp Nation or whatever no we were
watching our universe but they had a lot
of chimp footage mhm chimp Empire is a
different thing which is really cool
really interesting
documentary kind of overwhelming and
heavy and really sad there's some sad
stuff they really play into the feelings
of us relating to them as humans even
though they're not not going to watch it
well not interested if I were pick a
less easy one like a you know Tokyo or
Paris or something um chimp Nation you
go to Chimp Nation go record The Chimps
do you think chimps can make music
honestly Ethiopia would be pretty sweet
um I think that they could do
something I would probably
do
um really want to go to
Thailand Asia I that's a big to record
or just to visit see I can't ever I've
never been anywhere with just to visit
I've always recorded everywhere I've
been this is my problem I feel like up a
lot of people when I I feel like when I
travel if I'm not doing it for music
then it's frivolous I know I don't know
how to just show what a waste what a
waste I could have been playing a show
it sucks I can't vacation I've never
like vacation I felt guilty about coming
here just to go to a concert and was so
relieved that you asked me to do a live
session because I was like thank God at
least I'm like being productive or
whatever while I'm here and like getting
my music into some new ears potentially
I don't know how do not ask slforce an
artist to do a podcast in a session when
they come like I said relief I was like
because I I just feel like the like the
whole mission of my life is to share my
music with other people and if I'm not
doing that every opportunity I have uh
you know then yeah then it feels like
yeah it feels like kind of a waste maybe
but that's funny cuz the whole mission
of my life is to share other pe people's
music with other people yeah which is we
need you and not me you know what I mean
hey man a solid Bridge with good
geometry and good downforce man you need
that you need that perfect arch you know
just distribute that weight right good
foundation takes all kinds takes all
kinds Tak a village
it takes an Icelandic Village yeah um
yeah yeah about you where would you want
to go uh now's a really bad time but I'd
like to go to Jerusalem I okay well I
was going to say a really bad joke that
was insensitive but I didn't do it I'd
love to go I'd love to like I'll tell my
joke now but I don't mean it it's okay
you can say I was going to say it's
between two places Ukraine or
[Laughter]
Jerusalem uh I'd love to love to see the
Vatican I would love to go to those
places in
right now that these things are happen
yeah uh yeah love to uh um yeah I mean
this is the thing is that Jeff and I
have been talking about going to Japan
for years now and sick yeah right I just
feel like we just can't we can't get
ourselves to do it because we just feel
like if we're going to take the time off
to do that and spend the money that it
takes to travel and do all that why
wouldn't we do a tour yeah it's just
like it feels crazy especially while
we're in the throws of fell off which is
like a band that is very much active
right now and the iron is hot and we
want to strike and we want to do as much
as possible while we're excited about
this project and while we feel like uh
you know excited about getting it like
the shows are good and the turnouts have
been good and like people are are
listening and the feedback has been
great and like to just be like cool
great now instead of going on tour I'm
going to go to Japan like why don't you
tour in Japan that sounds like a lot of
work the two of you oh it's not really
that kind of band make it uh Do Your Own
Thing I mean if you heard it you'd be
like this is impossible Do Your Own
Thing like make like five six songs
together and then just do like shows
like just two person shows around I
could why not I could I will say like
juggling the three projects that I'm
doing right now is already enough I
can't
imagine yeah I already like also like
you know just this is like I I feel like
this is a like I I feel like I was
coming on this podcast to talk about DIY
music and we have talked a lot about a
lot of [ __ ] but like talk about DIY
in term in terms of DIY music like uh
the way that DIY touring has changed
post pandemic it's like so different and
it's so much harder talk about it that
now I'm like I don't want to uh like you
know I'm like I don't I don't like I'm
like only going to DIY t or if I feel
like it's if it's really worth okay get
it together
bud W edit it out that's some good banan
it chop it out oh what in the world how
is that stuff
legal
that I'm such a noob so wait so keep
going on um you know I think that like
you know you had a lot like I I feel
like I knew a lot more like Road dog um
people who have just been like DIY
touring for like 8 to 10 years and like
you know and they just like they do it
all the time and that's like part of
their bands like stees is that like
they're just like they're they only ever
play to like 50 to 100 people but they
play but they do it all the time like
two months out of the year they're on
the road and you know they're just
hitting all the all the stops in the US
you know um and I just feel like that
used to that idea of doing that used to
appeal to me and now I'm like my God
does it take me a 100 hours just to book
like six shows on the west coast if if
I'm cold calling especially for the kind
of music that I do as Rob joins it's
it's hard to place it's hard to build
those bills that make sense and that
will get if I don't want to play to just
like a dozen people if I want to play to
any substantial amount of people it's
like really you really got to like comb
and curate and uh um it It's just tough
tough and and also like a lot of a lot
of that kind of booking for like House
shows and stuff is all done through like
Instagram now you know U lot less emails
like a lot yeah it's like so uh the
whole thing is is a lot harder and when
we went on tour with fell off uh it was
I didn't book it it was it was booked by
our guitarist who's the booker at ver
project in in in Seattle which is a DIY
um operation and you know it's like a
all ages music operation and um so they
are connected with um with a lot of like
places like Holland project and Reno or
you know whatever and um and and we're
able to do like a lot more of that and I
was like and it just came together so
much faster and I'm like oh you're
telling me that the reason this is so
hard for me is because I'm just some guy
just some like Jabron you know what I
mean like I can don't ever want to be a
Jabron and I I can get you a Show in
Seattle but like only by passing you on
to somebody who actually like books
those shows and like you know makes it
happen and promotes it and stuff uh so
like my connections are like largely
just dead you know like I you know
they're like why because they're old you
know they're because the pandemic wiped
a lot of stuff out you know and like two
years went by as well and and even
though like and and you even though it
feels like we were frozen in time kind
of and on the other end of it we're like
okay now we need to pick up where we
left off that's simply not the reality
right uh like people did move or their
or their life or their Lifestyles or
living situations changed or their
priorities changed and maybe they don't
really do the live music thing so much
anymore but there's like a whole new
crop of like other people that do and I
don't know them yet because I haven't
met them so I have to start at square
one again and that means that like if
I'm going to take a band on the road I'm
asking them to I'm asking those
bandmates my friends to lose money to
like take a dive for my music Rob joints
like you know like hey here's a band
with my name on it can you lose a bunch
of wages from work and spend your
vacation days uh helping me live my
dream like you know it's like it doesn't
really seem fair so I can do it solo and
I will and have like I did fly out dates
last year with just a laptop and a mixer
and a sampler and like you know and I
went out and I did that kind of set um
and it was fun it felt exploratory like
it felt like I was like oh next time I
come back I'll have a couple more
connections or whatever and so that did
give me a little hope there but I will
say like making Rec the best recorded
music I can is much more of a priority
to me right now than like Road
dogging um just that's just like me
personally but I think that that coupled
with the the the way that uh DIY touring
landscape changed and maybe it just
became less accessible to me because of
my age too you know like because I'm not
23 and and will do anything and sleep on
any floor anymore you know I [ __ ] no I
still will got you we got you a queen
air mattress [ __ ] it I still will hey
this is not too bad right this is like
much nicer than half the places half not
I would say like this is much nicer than
90% of the plac missing an actual
bedroom for you half half was just a
word I'm saying this is literally your
own shower and bathroom yeah this is lit
laund room nicer than second place if
you don't like that you got a food MH
you have a podcast Studio I wake up once
an hour I wake up get some fresh air you
got a door right there overnight I'm
sleeping I'm tossing I'm turning I'm
waking up every hour I'm switching futon
mattress futon mattress just living it
up no it's not too bad I I've also I've
slept in some places mhm and this is a
good middle ground obviously one notch
above would be like a bedroom now I did
see one spider really I did crush it
I've never seen a spider down here I
killed that [ __ ] spider this a pretty
smack because we don't have
um animals and I 9 9% of time don't
allow no food down here no smoking um
it's a tiny spider smaller than I'm just
saying like there's kids if you want to
keep your DIY place or Studio place or
collaborative space clean keep food and
drinks out of it MH it'll help with most
of the problem roaches I don't mind a
roach roaches if I say Ro I'm not happy
like that means something wrong is
happening yeah but I mean if I'm
sleeping somewhere like I would rather
sleep with roaches than spiders what is
wrong with you well because spiders will
[ __ ] like they're not going to do
anything no the spiders will [ __ ] you up
no they're not going to do anything I'm
also very afraid of spiders yeah it
sounds like it cuz they're not going to
do anything they'll bite you we live in
Chicago there are zero poisonous spiders
here and they're not going to bite you
unless you hurt them or do something to
I was talking about like California well
does it sound like I'm in California
where I have played the most amount of
like shows on tour for those who don't
know the animals reptiles spiders snakes
and amphibians insects in Chicago are
not threatening the most threatening
thing you'll find isn't going to
threaten you is a coyote look out for
your small dogs and your pet rabbits but
that's about it um spiders bees bugs
they're only going to go after you if
you're disturbing them or threatening
them or vibrating too much so if you
stand still and they go on you don't do
anything they're not going to do
anything to you they have no need to
I've slept with a lot of well you put my
mind at ease cuz frankly this place is
infested with spiders the old DZ that
you saw 6 years ago I lived in there for
like a decade yeah and it was completely
unprotected from insects they could have
got in every way left and right and I've
I slept with them I felt them crawling
on me at night I didn't care at all they
didn't do anything nothing were
comforted you thought you know what at
least I'm not alone you realize it's all
in your head it's all in your head I
would destroy Fear Factor I wish I could
have been on that show 20 years ago damn
when I was a kid and I watched it I was
like I could do that I could do that
that doesn't bother me I'd eat those
test I i' chill with those snakes i'
jump off that Cliff that car ride looks
awesome those horses I'd ride Zero of
those things looked scary or threatening
I'm like I need to get on the show but I
was too young and probably not pretty
enough it's always a bunch of Attractive
people on that show that are are fit and
stuff you know yeah they're like uh you
know I think it would be a very
different kind of show if they just had
a bunch of like schlubby Schmucks and
like and they were like eat a [ __ ]
spider all right and you're just like
and there's just like a [ __ ] like
greasy dude who's like [ __ ] a spider
I used to eat bugs at parties to spice
it up and mess with people they'd be
like oh my God there's a spider in the
kitchen I just go up to it and just eat
it put my mouth and it all just the
first thing that Ben does when he's on a
date with a woman is he asks is do you
like swirlies and then he eats a spider
yeah and if they stick around we're set
yeah marriage marriage is right the
Wedding Bells Are Ringing I have
realized
that you you you need someone who
compliments you who's the opposite I
need someone to to normal aliz me bring
me back to Earth cuz I'm too out there
in the clouds with just a little wild
and I just need someone to Center me I
don't want someone as well opposite
attract you need a woman that hates
swirlies and
spiders no my my my girlfriend loves the
swirly pride is not like spiders but she
is not like me in any of my wildness
which is good you know when we go to the
beach now I still have gone swimming in
this weather and I'm the only one out
there in the water cuz it is 55° and
she's just shaking her mad at me but
it's like hey I will do that I love cold
water it doesn't bother me I'm going to
try to go swimming once a month the
whole year so I'm going to try to go in
the winter too oh you're going to do
full-on polar plunge I used to do when I
was a kid I used to you know go out
there break the ice with a sledgehammer
and jump in mhm and which I have no idea
why the adults let me do that at like 9
but hey it taught me a lot that most of
the fear is an anticipation and it's in
your head it's not really real
especially stuff that you know you be
okay like I'm at a beach I'm not like
jumping into deep water it's 8 in deep
like I'm not going to be swept away or
go under and get frostbite or I can't
say that appeals to me I'm not much of
an outdoorsy guy let alone uh jumping
into ice water I don't understand the
appeal I like a cozy I like a cozy
indoors I like cozy indoors but life is
too easy it's too soft I watch a lot of
horror movies so therefore I don't leave
the city I like you know okay I flew
from one city to another I never I'm not
in like an urban area really you don't
like nature no what not really you got
to go camping with me Rob no I went
camping with my brother like once last
year and it rained we'll do a we'll do a
double date camping trip I'll teach you
all how toang I didn't even I didn't
even have a tent I slipped in my van and
I was like it was raining and I was just
laughing to myself watching movies on my
laptop being like what what do people
enjoy about you got to go camping with
no internet connection um yeah you know
I don't know um you don't like it I just
uh you know I'm I'm a city boy you know
I'm a city boy soft he soft I'm a softy
you know I like both I love both I love
the the access to information food
culture people different architecture
different histories museums I love all
everything about Chicago New York um big
cities it's great but equally love
absolutely the middle of nowhere you
could throw me in the middle of nowhere
for a month I'd be happy if I had the
means to compensate work I would do that
every other month now mind you I grew up
Eastern
Washington yeah not not in the boonies
by any means definitely like in
Civilization but very like just a bike
ride away from hikes and rivers and uh
and uh you know like I had a real boy in
his dog childhood you know black lab and
how far wait what town were you in
specifically I was in Spokane okay but I
was in the county so like north of
Spokane the next town up is me how far
are you from Trevor do you know minutes
minutes yeah we grew up neighborhood
apart we yeah we we were on the high
school improv team but I mean like
outside of school well he was a year
younger than me and I I had pretty much
like stopped going to high school by the
time you were too cool for school
literally yeah by the time we would have
maybe run in the same circles like I was
out of there I had one foot out the door
so but he grew up kind of on some land
there's some property around him don't
know that's what he says like a like
open space forest and open space and
stuff don't know didn't know him then I
will say a lot of people from Spokane
from like my uh from my world like
growing up grew up to be some of the
coolest most creative people you'll ever
meet um you know and
um so like
uh uh like I'm I'm very pleased to have
like reconnected with Trevor you know um
even though we weren't really friends in
high school because I think we did come
from a a a pretty exceptional group of
people um maybe other maybe other
creatives feel that way maybe they don't
maybe they're like I got out of my
hometown and and uh and like I never
looked back or whatever uh you know uh I
and I know a lot of people like did
Escape situations where it was a
creative drain for them like their that
their their their creativity was not
fostered by the community that they were
raised in uh but for me man my my high
school experience was pretty great like
I uh yeah second second two years like
Junior and Senior year I didn't go to
the high school but um I was in the
building for in my senior year I I was
in the building for improv practice like
once once or you know once a week or
every other week that's cool your school
had an improv class that's awesome it
was it was just run by students it was
not like it was not an established thing
at all still cool yeah um
it was just my yeah my my friend Mike
and my friend Jake who also are
creatives and I've worked with Jake on
other projects since and like I wasn't
even friends with him in high school
really either but um but he he went on
to like yeah do do uh writing and um and
you know stuff and um but
um uh but yeah just Jake and Mike just
like ran the ran the Improv team and I'm
sure it was a nightmare I I'm I'm I'm
thrilled student ran things don't go I'm
thrilled that there is no like footage
that I'm aware of that exists of
Performing we were in a time when people
there is no footage of what we were
doing in high school I am glad about
that I am glad about that I'm
disappointed that like that even like my
my early 20s were captured you know what
I mean I would be fine if like the uh
you know the the the the the the public
and very very recorded nature of the way
we live now if that would have started
like six years ago I'd be gold like
everything before that I can just toss
in the trash do you you put a lot of
stuff on to the internet of your private
life or like in like the behind the
scenes or in between life or do you
mostly just keep it like mus and stuff I
have um you know Peaks and valleys in in
in terms of my interaction with social
media I will go for I will go for like
two months without posting a story or or
anything um but I'm on it you know I'm
I'm what's going on I feel like pretty
left out if I can't see who's releasing
music and what's going on in our scene
you know absolutely um and and also
artwork you know U visual art stuff and
um so uh but I don't I don't feel the
need to like constantly be creating
content out of my regular life of course
uh when it's interesting I do I think uh
I think there is this like kind of um
there can be a negative attitude towards
the um the the the the thing of um for
instance like Instagram being just
highlights of the best things about your
life I'm like well yeah duh like I don't
want to see somebody just eating a bowl
of cereal and watching Desperate
Housewives or whatever like yeah you do
not want to see me eat pizza but I want
to see the you know I want to find out
if somebody got married or you know or
if or a friend of mine is is in is in
Berlin that's interesting oh cool I'll
ask them about that next time I see him
like got to see some cool pictures of
that or whatever like I'm I I I think
social media is what you make it and
like I think a lot of people have their
are bringing their own negative baggage
to it and maybe they're feeling
inadequate in their lives or um or
struggling with something and and uh and
and social media can really exemplify
that and and um and exacerbate people's
like feelings of isolation or or
inadequacy or or like my life is not as
interesting as all these other people
who are like doing cool stuff on social
media but well what it doesn't show with
the like my life is not as cool as that
person's life is all the groundwork to
even get to like putting putting up that
post which might show like maybe a cool
show or behind the stages a theater or
even a really cool Studio it's like you
know what it took to get to that that's
what they're not showing like all that
effort and hard work that it takes to
when you do post the thing that people
are like oh I can't believe you get to
do that it's like this wasn't just
overnight it was it wasn't by accident
homie I made some I made some pretty
serious sacrif my life to this literally
financially loans risks everything to do
this and be here and still working on
and there's a lot of post part of this
to even put out the footage you know the
podcast the sessions the shows the
festival the traveling all of it is
immense amount of work I've never had a
sense of a normal life not even close
what is a normal life I don't know I
couldn't tell you I I have I love yeah
and I'm really really happy with like
the way that I've structured my life
yeah because I didn't like uh I didn't
take on things that couldn't be
sacrificed you know like uh and and I
actually would really I think really
regret if I had because it would have it
would have like hindered my ability to
like make music and put it out into the
world and and you know make cool [ __ ] do
cool [ __ ] like I like to you know I like
to make projects and I like to do cool
things and and experience other
people's music and stuff but like yeah I
mean I like sound yeah I'm just like
well it just made me sound like uh like
like going to shows or experiencing
other people's music is somehow work or
require sacrifice but um but I just I'm
a bartender so I have to like see a lot
of people and hear a lot of people who
are [ __ ] miserable and tell me some
of the stuff they tell you uh so I have
like worked at a lot of different kinds
of bars how many oh um I don't know six
or seven sure um maybe seven or eight I
don't know and and not all and not like
not always consistently sometimes I just
I fill in at bars or I like work I how
long have you been in bars working in
bars I've been a bar chender for six
years um a while okay yeah uh and uh and
like you know I've worked at at like
neighborhood Dives where you know you
see the same people every day playing
the pull tabs I don't know if you guys
have pull tabs here if that's a thing
it's a form of gambling um gambling yeah
in the bars it's like tickets that you
open they're like little lotto tickets
kind of and uh uh you know people are
like addicted to that they're addicted
to drinking you know they're uh they're
staring into their into their beer and
they're like you know and they're just
they're just Uncle Rico from Napoleon
Dynamite like oh [ __ ] I could have
thrown a football over them mountains
you know and it's like and I'm like I
just can't fathom like living like that
I totally like s i I totally sympathize
with people who do feel stuck or that
their situations or their geographical
proximity or whatever has like hindered
their ability to like um to live a
satisfying life but um but I also just
the kind of person who I seriously don't
have time to spend in a bar if I'm not
working there I cannot just be like I'm
going to go kill three hours at the bar
by myself like just go hang out with the
regulars like there is so much [ __ ] I
have to do if I have two or three hours
to spare I'll probably be going to the
movies and catch a movie that I haven't
seen yet it's more productive I mean I
don't even think it's productive so much
as like that's more interesting to me
and more I mean it's definitely not as
detrimental to your mind and emotions
and phys health I think you certainly
can lead a full and happy life that is
small localized and largely takes place
at your local bar I think there's
nothing wrong with that if that's what
you want to do I mean if you're sitting
there drinking every day at a bar that
you if you're sitting there drinking
there every day and complaining to me
about how your life sucks and continuing
to do absolutely nothing to change it it
gets a little hard for me to sympathize
with you yeah absolutely especially when
I have to see it all the time how many
how many uh if you could throw out an
anecdotally if you could throw out a
number how many alcoholics have you
encountered two million
I it's it's impossible to that's like
one of astrophysicist is asked like how
many galaxies are there many stars are
there I like two to the 18th trillion
you're like what uh I did work at one
bar in particular no names mentioned
that was um a very very sad place to
work and was very much Weighing on me
emotion place I work at now is not
really like that at all there I mean
there are like people on the Block who
never leave the block and are constantly
talking about like man my [ __ ] is dope
like I can make I could you know I'm
going to blow up one of these days I'm
like yeah but you never leave this block
and like you don't like you're not
really actively taking the steps or
working hard to um to you know to raise
money for a project that cuz like
sometimes good music does cost money you
know absolutely and like and if you are
like you know not are if you're choosing
not really like like to work that much
and make that much money and then you
the money that you do have or make
you're spending at this very expensive
bar that I work at it's like okay like
maybe break that habit so that you can
like put that money to just change up
your life you know expensive how like
what's an oldfashioned cost uh with
mid-range BB that's not that bad yeah um
when I see them here in Chicago and
they're 20 bucks I'm like uh this is why
I don't Dr bars definitely not that kind
of part this is like I I'm not that kind
of bartender either like I'm I'm a dive
bar guy like this is like we're talking
like venues yeah Dives we're talking
like vodka sodas and like beers like you
know it's like what's the cheapest beer
you guys have reineer is our um is like
our Yingling it's like uh it's like our
like our regional um and what is it like
bucks yeah like a tall can's like $2 to5
depending on what neighborhood you're in
a draft is like three to three to five
or six maybe love me a draft um yeah you
know it's just like it's like yeah I
don't know if you know like Olympia
that's our other like piss beer you know
it's s they like it's the capital uh it
is but they're the beer yeah Olympia
Beer which I guess probably comes from
Olympia like the city know more about
Washington than you yeah that that beer
is also like the that's like what my my
grandfather like drank a sixer a Rainer
like till the day he died kind of beer
you know it's like but uh um it's like
yeah uh so um yeah so I'm like you know
I'm just like okay like I I'm like I
cannot in some ways it's some ways it's
like almost like mentally taxing on me
to like I miss working a job before I
was a bartender when I could just like
listen to music and podcast all day and
not talk to anybody I'm sometimes like
horse at the end of the day I mean I'm
talking for you know I mean you're
you're a teacher you know like you're
literally lecturing I'm fried I'll lose
6 hours I'm like soaked in sweat and my
brain feels like it put into a blender
and your voice is just crusty yeah my
voice starts to hurt absolutely and I do
miss like not having to do that
sometimes and um and I feel like it
really sucks my energy out in a way that
makes me like uncreative when I go home
after a shift I can't just like write a
song I do have to like I write I work on
music on my off days I don't really I
can't really I can go home and like
listen to like an audio book and do the
dishes and I can be productive in that
way sure but I can't really be creative
you're tapping part the brain yeah so um
so in in some ways it like really Burns
me out like to to like have to just be
like to just have the you know the like
the burnouts who are just you know at
the bar every [ __ ] day but like the
other hand it does like motivate me to
you know or it has in the past has like
motivated me to be like okay I don't
want to be I don't want it to be that I
actually like the last bar that I worked
at so like the current bar that I work
at is a lot of creatives I mean yes on
the weekends it's party people but like
a lot of the people in our neighborhood
they are artists like everyone the guy
serving you your burger is in is in a
band that like has tour the country you
know what I mean like it's like it's
that kind of part of town so like um
you know these are like this is like
these are cool like real like people who
like you know are like um are doing that
kind of stuff and so it's this doesn't
really apply as much but that last bar
that I worked at really made me never
want to hang out in a bar like just to
kill time yeah like ever again and I
since have stopped like I don't I don't
just like go to the bar to like make
time disappear anymore I rarely go I go
I go for shows I go for like if my
friends invited me out and it's like oh
wow I haven't seen this person yeah we
want to like hang out and catch up but
like I'm not just like oh I've got a
Thursday night free I'm going to go to
the bar and like play pull tabs and and
you know whatever it's hard for me to go
to um a bar just to hang like if the bar
has something I don't have like a venue
pool tables some a DJ spinning vinyl
whatever it is that I don't have I have
no problem going but with my what you
saw upstairs it's really hard for me to
go to bars cuz I have so so much better
stuff here oh yeah your home rules like
I would never leave this [ __ ] place
there's so much to do here yeah I
usually don't I mean we have I do
podcast we have band practice here I
haven't shown you a picture but I have
like I have like I'm a VHS collector so
I have like thousands of [ __ ] dope
rare tapes that I haven't even seen yet
I got a Zen rack like I go to I go to
like this this there's a festival in
Seattle called short run I go every year
and I just I stock up I got Zen that I
could just like you know I got book I
got lots of [ __ ] to do man I got never
and and me and that doesn't even factor
in like the time it takes to record
music which like I could spend eight
hours in my studio just on an off day um
you know and just be left alone and I I
really value that so is uh is pinball
like much of a thing here in Chicago
I've seen it at places especially um
there's some cool arcade places Emporium
is a cool uh Bar Arcade pool table they
have shows there it's a cool spot I
think uh people in Seattle maybe kind of
take for granted that like
uh pinball like pinball is everywhere
it's like Seattle's like a pinball like
capital and every bar has pinball
machines there are leagues people yeah
people I don't think it's quite like
that yeah people play competitively
there are bars that are just pinball
bars like and even me as like just a
person who has spent time in venues and
bars and um I'm not I don't even
consider myself to be a pinball person
but I can like Crush certain machines
like I can like you know like I have my
machines and like I it's just the
proximity to it like everybody in
Seattle plays pinball huh yeah I don't
think it's quite that popular here yeah
I had a really cool pinball machine in
my garage for a while um my friend
stepen had in his living room for a
while the game it was hook hook like
okay it was awesome yeah like when when
you do a certain like the ball goes into
a certain tube and that era game is is
like my favorite 1990 love like you know
Sopranos Star Trek Lord of the Rings
like Black Knight Medieval Madness like
Jurassic Park like a lot of like those
those Terminator '90s movies like so
those machines were either made um once
the movie was a hit or like later you
know like early 2000s and so a lot of
them are in like good condition they're
upkept the the farther back you go like
the games get much harder to play
because they're either just older or
they're just like they're not they're
it's I mean it's just like video games
right it's like you know video games get
more intuitive and easier to play and um
and they're just designed better and
with the user in mind and some of these
retro games are really tough yeah yeah
the Pino stream was fun though we played
it every day in my house hook I remember
when um the ball would go into a certain
place and the guy would go you can fly
you can fight you can grow I can't even
watch like Lord of the Rings without
like every time I hear a line like in
The Lord of the Rings movie that's in
the pinball machine it just all of a
sudden my brain just goes like ball here
we go like man it'd be fun when when
when Saron goes a new era or a new age
is rising to all that's the beginning of
the multi ball on the game and like you
know it's like that's funny yeah they're
taking The Hobbit sien guard you know I
used to love those movies I saw them all
opening night when they came out in 2001
2 and three let me tell you I I had a
like an experience with those movies
recently because I did they were out
when I was growing up you know and we
had they were some of the first DVDs we
ever owned I don't know why box set or
something but um so I always just kind
of took them for granted as like movies
that exist they're out in the world like
you know like a lot of people see them
as comfort food movies or whatever but
um but um Jeff had been rewatching them
or falling asleep to them or whatever
and I would just like get really sucked
in even though I know nothing really
about Lord of the Rings or the lore or
I've never read the books or anything I
read The Hobbit but like I felt like
that was pretty easy I mean like Lord of
the Rings is a little bit different and
um but they have the the extended
versions on HBO now that are like
they're you know they're four hours plus
per movie and I just said you know what
I those on Blu-ray I think the extended
version yeah I was like I'm just going
to spend a week where like all I watch
is like Lord of the Rings like I'll just
dip in and out you know when I have an
hour or two uh and by the end I was like
in tears I was like these movies are so
[ __ ] good it's amazing that they were
able to capture a story of this
magnitude on screen it's like a
seemingly impossible feat and I feel
like the narrative around the time when
they were coming out was no one's going
to be satisfied because the fans are
going to be like they left out so much
and the people who don't aren't fans of
the books are just going to be like I
have no idea what's happening because
there's 30 characters and they all have
like crazy backstories Peter Jackson did
a good the fact that they were able to
make a like a Layman like me just
totally understand everything that was
going on uh is a is a a feat yeah great
movies they were fun movies great movies
the the hobbits though booty never saw
them they're not good they're so bad the
CGI much of a uh I'm not really much of
like a fantasy or sci-fi kind of guy
like my wheelhouse for BHS collecting is
uh 80s action and um horror uh slashers
campy slashers um that's kind of stuff
you know I love really bad like um
there's a movie called tracks t
trxx uh that is like just horrible trash
like movie that I love that's like it's
like a like a real just like getting too
old for this [ __ ] kind of movie like VHS
I used to I used to have a really cool
collection of those I got rid of them
when I moved and I I mean I grew up in
the VHS world had so many VHS there's a
really cool DIY venue that you would
like to visit and or play with any of
your bands uh in Chicago it's called VHS
and there the theme there is it's a just
wall toall VHS can we go there
tonight is it open I I'll look into it I
I'm I'll I let you know but probably
love to check that out it's cool I uh I
try not to like play there unless I'm
driving I try not to like go places
where I can buy VHS cuz I don't I don't
want to like fly home with a bunch of
tapes like they're they're sensitive you
know um little you know little it's it's
physical media so it's you know it's
um it can deteriorate and stuff I had so
many I saw on a um something I had never
seen before on Instagram from a from an
account that I follow that uh that
collects and trades and sells rare
movies and um they they posted a a
picture of a sticker they saw on a tape
from a um you know uh from a
um a video store like a um uh what what
do they call that when it's a you know
they're they're getting rid of stock so
they just sell it off or whatever you
know and it's said um uh it said do not
rewind immediately after watching uh it
was like don't it was like a Not Be Kind
Rewind it was like rewind before you
watch the movie because the um because
the tape stretches and warps it it gets
warm when you're watching it and if you
rewind it immediately after watching it
can warp the tape that makes sense and I
was like I have never heard that before
and I think sense I think that that's
probably a little overly sensitive you
know it's like you can beat these tapes
up pretty bad and they they they survive
a lot of [ __ ] M um that sounds but it
did make me think that I'm just GNA from
now on when I watch a movie and I put it
back in my collection I'll save
rewinding for for what before I watch it
I used to love rewinding I have a couple
of little you know car rewinders yeah I
was just going to say we had a
1957 Chevy red rewinder there I have
that one do you yeah yeah I have that
exact that's like my
childhood black one we had that one and
I remember like we would measure which
one was faster like the actual VCR when
you turn it off you hit stop and then
hit rewind versus doing it while it's
playing which was always faster and then
doing the external rewinder we' like
just take bets on you know like seven
result I'm like what a silly piece of
technology
because is your time really so valuable
that like say you're watching like uh
you know back when they used to say like
friends okay a show that was home
released for home media on VHS you could
watch episodes like you could watch a
whole season of friends on BHS it's like
five tapes in a box or whatever takes up
so much space but your time is so
valuable that you need to okay I just
finished I'm binge watching friends just
finished one tape and I'm going to put
the next one in but I cannot wait I
don't have time for it to rewind so I'm
going to put in the next tape and put my
tape into the rewinder
I mean it's one of those things like why
does it need to exist it's it's just uh
because that technology is just built
for that task it does do it better and
it doesn't wear down the Mechanics for
the one that you want to just use to
watch St forward cuz those are moving
Parts I'm not convinced do you know what
I'm saying though it's going to break
down those parts faster one the car one
in particular I think is purely
aesthetic well yeah that they do it's
fun think I don't think that it's like
for the tape no no and if it is it is so
negligible what I'm saying is the
mechanism of the VCR right it plays
forward and backwards it does a bunch of
different stuff when you take the tape
out instead of rewinding it in that VCR
it's going to wear down the components
in that VCR more which you should save
for the quality for when you do just
watch stuff off of it and beat down the
external rewinder that's cheaper that is
designed just for rewinding so it will
do it quicker and that's all shop is and
it might be 30 bucks you could replace
it versus your nice fancy Sony or
Kenmore VCR that might be and not to
mention but on a lot of these TV VCR
combos the C uh
CRT um whatever they're called um is uh
that the VCRs will go out on them long
before the tube TV does the tube TV will
last you 20 years so you know it's it's
a pain in the ass finding and now those
are going on eBay for crazy money those
TVs yeah oh man I smashed so many of
those the are comos yeah I've smashed so
many smashed I'm wild what did I tell
you I need some new you just smash TVs
how
destructive I've blown up and smashed so
many things I was inspired by
MythBusters and how it's made and
Einstein you know they tell you not to
do it at home I everything [ __ ] Rebel
everything that they said not to do home
I've done at home I used to climb to the
top of the tree in the backyard that one
went the platform if you rem remember it
the old hicker Hills house yeah i' climb
to the top of the tree it's 100 feet up
and I would carry computer monitors TVs
and then throw them off watch that I
just did when they weren't around I was
going to or or or they were around and I
just I'm 300 feet away so they like or
they or you were going to be like no I
did this after they moved out of that
house I just as a full grown man no I've
done it I did it most of it as a
teenager but yeah we used to smash the
fall time I'd take a sledgehammer and
just go right through that screen so
give me like uh give me your your like
comfort food if you're going to pop in a
tape you can go to sleep it's going to
lull you to sleep what's your comfort
food movie my VHS or I like Netflix on
my phone I think it's got to be like VHS
worthy geez I haven't watched a VHS in
ages but if I were to be in a situation
where I have like an old tube TV with a
V vcr and a plug in VHS which you will
be if you come to Seattle and stay in my
guest room are is the um the RCA are the
red and white um audio cables are they
going to external speakers or just audio
from the TV it's audio from the TV all
right fine uh comfort food probably a
frozen pizza because that'll bring me
back to what I used to do when I was a
kid but now I'm so sorry but you're
making me like very like self-conscious
right now like I need you're you're
making me think that I need to get
speakers for the guest room everyone
ever always for every situation I kind
like have TV you need kind of like the
way that TV sounds cuz it's so janky the
TV is designed for one thing display it
does everything else poorly so okay but
like but I think there's something to be
said it brings me back to Childhood to
have the shitty little tvcr combo and to
listen to the horrible tiny shr audio
from those speakers if I'm watching my
cousin Vinnie on
VHS you know what I mean do I really
need the external speakers the problem
is uh Rob when I was quite young my dad
had a dope sound system uh a nice
massive Pioneer you know 15in Subs 4in
mid 1-in Tweeter full range sound system
graphic equalizers turn table six disc
CD changer um two cassettes dual you can
record stuff on so when I discovered
that I could take this this RCA of
yellow red and white I could keep the
yellow in the TV split because the
cables were kind of like glued you split
off without breaking the white and red
and stretch it and plug it into the back
of the VC or the back of the receiver
the power amp receiver in the back of
the stereo into aux one and two or just
aux one and then you select Ox when on
the input select and you can have a full
rain sound system of your VHS once I
discovered that it changed my cousin
Vinnie forever it changed hook and ET
and
boys you know Goonies and uh um Monster
Squad so you like adventure movies
you're into the adventure movies you
know Land Before Time never ending story
page
master these are also a lot of Coming of
Age movies too you like are good like
boys growing up well see I was born 1989
so I'm like in in the thick middle of
being a millennial but I always tell
people I grew up with
the technology and pop culture of a Gen
X and I grew up with the mindset of a
boomer and I don't mean that in my
beliefs or anything I just like latch
key kid like go out and play till the
sun sets like seriously like my whole
life it's why I'm a wild man like zero
rules about
like up stuff andash city boy now
because I got it all out of my system oh
I don't I got to keep it was so much fun
it's the best way to live I mean any
other way is just sad I was like
basketball like let's let's like let's
go shoot hoops until the sun goes down
let's shoot something basketball BB guns
guns
GS basketball shoo those cans off a saw
hor I made a mini golf course in my
backyard I used to make I made a a
nine-hole golf course across my neighbor
yards without asking them I just dug
holes and just made a course and mowed
the grass at different heights like I
just did whatever I wanted all the time
and it was awesome it was great but the
same is true for how I would what I
would watch but the thing is I was my
family is really really big and I had
uncles and aunts born from
1948 to
1968 um and with that they had kids at
many ages so I have cousins that are
born in 1968 same age as the youngest
Aunt I have all the way to 2002 so there
was many generations of our cousins and
our family is really big and at the old
house that was the main house my grandpa
built the house so the whole family
always hung out there we have like three
generations of cousins I was of the last
of the I was the youngest of the last or
the first generation so I had cousins
that were born the 60s and 70s who I
grew up with I got the hamme from
they're gen xers so although I'm morning
'89 a lot of my cousins I'm also the
youngest of my siblings and they grew up
with older cousins so I had all the
movie and technology and the video games
and and music and clothing and ideas and
ways of living it's a little bit older
than what I grew up with and you throw
on top of the fact that when you grow up
with less means and less access to
information didn't have cable didn't
have the internet didn't have the
computer nothing um wasn't allowed to
watch cable just basic TV which is
nothing you even grow up leaving more
behind like more old like it's it's I'm
leaving further
behind and handd downs from Brothers you
got it from cousins so even my fashion
sense everything I know is is all old so
yes I'm you know born 1989 but sometimes
when I hear even people my age talk
about their upbringing who did have
cable who did have cell phones who did
have internet who did get new clothes
who were allowed to watch South Park and
stuff they I can't relate to them they
did Watch dub what I'm really hearing
from all this what I'm taking away is if
a butterfly had flapped its wings just
one one time more different or whatever
you would I can totally see you being
the proprietor of a mini golf course
maybe a chain mini golf courses I love
mini golf it's a great thing to do on
tour with your band because it's like a
good way we have the afternoon we got
three hours before soundcheck and we
don't really know anything about this
city or whatever or we're in like bum
[ __ ] nowhere New Jersey let's find mini
golf course yeah and they're never
expensive it's always like eight bucks
yeah I was just going it's always
between like seven and $10 and there's
like nobody there and golf Wednesday
kids are at school go go-karting too
another 10 bucks oh yeah I also love uh
like I love like a bumper boats bumper
cars um yeah that's interesting you know
uh kids these days man they'll never
understand the RCA cable and yeah
they're like they'll never watch my
cousin Vinnie wait you mean you just
don't use Bluetooth and stream it's bro
you know what though I do go to people's
houses especially people who are a
little younger than me and my God if
they yeah if they be watching everything
out of the speakers on their TV I cannot
deal I'm just like no it's like I don't
I don't think I'll ever watch stuff out
of a TV ever again I'm like I can't
everywhere I go where my life is is
existing I bring them speakers I hooked
up my brother with speakers for his TV
my parents were there is my girlfriend
with hers mine here every room where I
consume stuff has s you have you have
made it this far into the podcast into
here we are in hour six of us talking
about actually where are we though guess
how long we've been talking oh man it's
got to be over two is it two and a half
24 240 okay um about yeah we've been
talking like almost a like a almost
almost a Lord of the Rings amount of
time um but but if you're still
listening and you do not have some kind
of
external speaker that you literally
could buy for like $30 at your local
Goodwill or on Facebook Marketplace or
something you probably get something for
free yeah you cuz someone want to get
rid it you doing how much do you not
respect yourself and your life if you
are watching [ __ ] through your TV
speakers I'm going to put out a PSA
right now ready PSA ready kids this this
will work it'll double it will quadruple
and function you can do your vinyl your
TV your aux cable for your computer
which I recommend so you don't do
Bluetooth you plug your laptop into it
and then control all the music from your
phone as a wireless remote but it's
still streaming straight from the cable
not Bluetooth and you can have
Bluetooth and you can plug into your
Blu-ray or 4K or video game console you
literally can do everything buy yourself
a receiver get a Kenmore a Sony one set
of speakers and one set of speakers
that's what I have in my ENT go on
Facebook Marketplace everything's
plugged into it eBay Craigslist whatever
and you I'd say top spend between $100
and $300 on their receiver and speakers
you're set for life it's so simple
that receiver is a hub to connect all
the technology you want from every type
of medium you listen or watch or view or
consume your set you select between the
different channels if you want to watch
TV vinyl uh video games streaming phone
whatever so come on down to Ben's audio
supply get yourself a new pair of
pioneers get it and then after you're
done buying your new set of speakers
head on out to the back and we'll play
mini golf at Ben's mini golf Palace we
have an archery golf course we have a
paintball course we blow up old TVs off
The Treehouse this is like I'm I'm
saying like the space that DZ Fest was
thrown in like could have been like this
it could have been like a paintball SL
mini gol it was all of those things I
had a paintball course there's a reason
why there was a festival there I didn't
start off going with right the festival
evolved out of golf the festival
happened at 22 years old but since 2
years old I was already doing wild stuff
back there so I got a lot of experience
of learning how to UTI I feel like yeah
I don't know I you know I I also I hear
a lot of kids these days [ __ ] from
people who like didn't grow up like in
the city or in Seattle but they're like
oh like kids these days don't just like
ride their bikes around the neighborhood
I'm like yeah cuz they live in the
[ __ ] city they're like there is no
yard you know what I mean like they
can't just like bike to to the river and
play poo sticks or whatever you know poo
sticks uh like but they like but they uh
you know so I'm like but I I still feel
like the like kids growing up in like in
like far farther out in the suburbs and
and around where I grew up in Spokane
are probably still doing all that stuff
maybe maybe not maybe I am the last of a
generation that was just digging holes I
don't think I just dug holes I don't
think they did you dig holes I yes I I
just dug holes I tried making
underground forts me too yeah it never
worked no it never worked Roots I was an
ID did in a forest yeah I did one time
though I did make one where I I got deep
it was not far it was like 4 feet I'm
we're talking like if you ever watch the
movie Holes with Shadow buff yeah yeah
they're digging like what is it like 5x5
like 5ot deep and and diameter five like
uh like every single day I'm like I
maybe got four feet on this [ __ ] hole
put a piece of plywood over it cover it
with dirt maybe like move some put some
sharpened bamboo sticks underneath it to
kill your enemy you know all yeah or
like uh like well no I mean this was the
fort you go into it and you got the roof
and you maybe put some like that stuff
growing up and you're not into nature
now that's wild like I said got it all
out of my system really isn't it's you
don't like I don't have time to dig
holes anymore I'm not saying you know
you grow up you grow up you lose your
childhood wonder and you don't dig holes
anymore you you're breaking my heart I
got I got to get my kids to school I got
to pay my mortgage I can't I can't dig
be digging holes you're you're breaking
my heart yeah I know I really need to
just dig some holes you know what I'm
going to take a break from making music
booking shows making records I'm going
to take some time for me and I'm going
to dig some holes there's one thing I've
gotten out of this podcast so um yeah I
mean uh yeah definitely did did a lot of
shenanigans as a childhood boy
um and uh yeah I was I was on the very
very end of I was the you know the the
VHS to
DVD uh change over was like you know uh
was late 90s early 2000s yeah so and and
I also you know so I was born in '93
which means that
March March 16th I know I'm kidding okay
we already been down this road pandemic
day D 3:16 John 316 joh 36 I'm a holy
guy man um you know that Bible verse for
God so Lov the world that he gave us one
and only begotten son who shall ever
believes in him shall not perish but
have everlasting life amen ameny amen um
yeah no I grew up in the church grew up
in the church uh but um
um uh you know I also think I'm probably
like the last like uh you know the
youngest person that still like
remembers 911 you know happening cuz I
was 7 years old so and I'm happy to be
hopefully I live a long life I'd like to
live a very long time if possible just
cuz I want to see how things turn out
you know if I live into my 90s I think
it would be really really cool to be the
last person that remembers like well one
of the last people who remembers the
turn of the century sure uh you know
imagine like you know talking to
somebody who was born in you know
1893 uh and uh you know and what that
was like and stuff now no one's going to
want to listen to me I'm just going to
be some old cot that like you know that
like digging holes playing putt putt I'm
just digging holes I can't wait spfy
took all my goals I can't wait to be old
like after 90 I am going to be a wild
Cowboy like just I'm going to be but
what are you going to do to me I'm 9 I
mean you heard my music I feel like like
it's going to lend itself very well to
me being an old man like can you even
get arrested after 90 like what they put
in jail you're over 0 one of my best
friends is 70 years old that man gets
away with so much [ __ ] you can't get in
trouble if you're 90 like seriously the
judge will be like uh what just go get
out of here what are you doing you're
harmless to society you're incapable of
hurting people you don't know what's
going on you need help getting around
like come on now that being said I don't
think I I'm hoping I'll still have like
lot of friends of all ages I mean I'm
friends with people of all ages like I
said got one of my one of my best
friends is 70 one of my good friends is
you know in in her 40s so two of my good
friends are are in their 40s and uh I
you know I have a uh just later this
month I'm I'm doing a 21 run with with
one of my friends for for their 21st
birthday what's a 21 run uh going out to
the bars for the first time on your 21st
birthday like going yeah going bar
hopping on your on your on your 21st
birthday I didn't do that but I did now
yeah you know just going all the places
that you've been locked out of your life
place you couldn't go and you find out
how not that cool and not that
mysterious ter it is and expensive yeah
just uh oh W this place is just like
shitty has flat carpet and pinball
machines oh I have a question for you um
oh well to finish my thought is that
like I don't think there's going to be
like a whole lot of people who are like
uh I'm not going to have kids or
anything so I'm not going to have like
people who are like going to I'm not
have an estate you know what I mean so
I'm like I better make my own
preparations for burial and stuff like
that so if I want a big old Tombstone
and a statue and a plaque that says here
lies Rob he died as he lived in a hot
tub drunk surrounded by beautiful women
then you know I have to do that all you
already dug your grave you've been
digging these holes just go climb in one
that's free is it legal though are you
allowed to just bury I mean if you're
dead if you're dead I want people to
know where the hole is oh you know so
they can go visit it I want I want a
hole in the middle of the forest throw
me in it plant a tree call a day don't
waste anything don't put chemical put
chemicals in me like the Ben Giving Tree
like you can visit here lies the Ben
tree man Ealing people it's crazy what
are you putting these chemicals in me
for what about um could we do something
to the tree that resembles your likeness
like could we call yeah build a tree Al
So eventually the tree dies from getting
poison from the nails that works so
what's your question and then yeah and
then we should probably route this
[ __ ] thing you're like after that
stupid statement what's your goddamn
question
ah what was my question oh what is what
upcharge do you guys send to do on
alcohol what do you mean like what
percentage like how do you know how to
gauge the price and what like say a beer
say CU it's so expensive to go to bars
mhm so the
upcharge say like how do you gauge what
percentage to do so like industry
standard for like retail or like you
know whatever is like or restaurants is
like 300% of the cost to the right so
it's 3 times what you paid for it right
that's how the beer is $2 for the bottle
right you're charging six okay uh I will
say that like it's very random at bars
because uh at a lot of bars like a well
a well bottle of vodka like you guys
call Wells here right uh so like that I
mean wholesale [ __ ] man those things
those bottles might cost like4 to6 and
you're getting like you know 20 it's we
we're free poor state so you might be
getting like less than 20 shots out of
it sometimes but like if you're charging
eight or $9 for the well that's like way
more than a 300% up charge like right um
but the lowest like the worst money that
we make is on Red Bull because Red
Bull's very expensive even at wholesale
yeah uh and so if you're charging $5 for
a Red Bull like if you just bought a can
of Red Bull for me it's like five bucks
it's probably like 250 at cost so that's
only like 100% markup and then but
what's weird is like if you get a vodka
Red Bull it's a $4 upcharge on your
drink MH which is funny to me because
you could just buy a shot of vodka and a
Red Bull for and it' be a dollar more
and you get twice as much red bull but
these are the things people don't think
about they're drunk they're partying
what you're saying is why I really
appreciate and loved when Red Bull like
sponsored Dy Fest and brought like so
much red bull for free cuz I know how
much money they cost they give us a lot
for free and they also come into the bar
a lot and do a lot of promotional stuff
the thing about Red Bull is much like
you know Jack Daniels or you know
whatever if you can get your um people
just order a Jack and Coke now I could
give them an Evan and Coke which Evan
Williams which is essentially the same
thing as Jack Daniels the bottle even
looks the same I'm sure it comes from
like the same Factory the same
Distillery whatever it's $2 more for
Jack Daniels but their branding is such
that they got into the you know the
Zeitgeist at large they got into the
common vernacular that you just order a
Jack and Coke SYM with whiskey and Coke
vodka Red Bull you order a vodka Red
Bull like but it doesn't say a brand
with vodka Red Bull it's not like I'm I
want an absolute Red Bull but Red Bull
is the brand so oh you know there are
not other you don't order a vodka
Rockstar you don't order a vodka monster
right right so
a lot of places do have like uh turbo on
the gun turbo is like is like the RC of
energy drinks and it's it it's it's a
bag on the gun so like uh you know and
it's very cheap but um we have such a
like brand Loy especially at our bar
just because it is also kind of like a
club and people like expect Red Bull you
know uh we we don't do that we have we
have one of those they give they gave us
the fridge you know with the with the
design thing all over it one of our Red
Bull fridge is actually really cool it's
like it's got um it looks like an old
Diner Booth almost it's got like plush
or it's like padding all over it like
cushion kind of um you know they're like
they have lots of like merch and you
know all this [ __ ] like and the Red Bull
girls come by and uh and so like we we
we're pretty like brand loyal to Red
Bull in particular so they're a fun
company they're a fun brand not going to
lie they're really cool they they really
gracious and fun to work seems like uh
they did good things for you I uh we got
a we got a a Dey endorsement over here
Red Bull I mean I don't really drink it
much cuz it's terrible for you it's
[ __ ] gross but for a DZ Fest I sure
had like 10 each day and I was like yeah
I don't drink that [ __ ] it's nasty I had
so much I I was messed up I mean but
when you're riding on that kind of feel
you need whatever you can get I like
needed to have it because I was it was
rough um time is it shoot we got 9
minutes before we hit 3 hours you want
to go three hours or you want to call it
9 minutes we can do it let's do it
what's our what's our what's our top
what have we not hit we not hit let's
see I probably should talk about music
some more or something talk about music
well first of all tell everybody
especially if like somebody made it this
far because they like my music and they
wanted to hear me talk about it about
talk about um the projects you're in
again and where everyone can find them
and going a little bit depth about them
so fell off is a project that I started
with my partner Jeff that the Genesis
was that he had written a lot of guitar
songs guitar focused songs
uh in his style and uh but is not a
vocalist is not somebody who is maybe as
confident about putting putting an aabc
song together you know so he would like
write really cool parts or like put most
of a song together but our collaborative
effort there is that uh he will give me
demos or whatever and I will uh like
write the vocals to it maybe rearrange
it a little bit and then we bring it to
the band and now the band is writing
together on our latest project uh where
we are actually writing at band practice
and a lot of the times I won't even go
because um because they want to write
the guitar parts together and I'm just
going to be sitting there reading my
book and they don't I if anything me
being there is almost like a hindrance
to them getting stuff done um that
project is uh a lot of fun it's like
just really like spontaneous and
happening really fast and um and I think
it I think think it shows in the music
that like we're having a good time and
that like and uh one thing that was like
a surprise to me about it was that when
we did go on this tour that um I wasn't
really sure if guitar music uh if if
like the youths were all that you know
uh excited about guitar music because
largely the way that I interact with um
the 17 to 23y Old demographic is at
hip-hop shows and uh and and and you
know raging at the you know at the uh at
the SoundCloud trap shows and stuff you
know so I was very pleasantly surprised
when we it was a mostly all ages tour
and that at the spaces we played at the
demographic was very much excited 17 to
23 year olds who are not cynical because
it's all new to them you know they're
still very excited about about this
music and they have never heard you know
a lot of the bands that we sound like
from 10 years ago or whatever you know
just to quote Steve Albini like
something funny that you know I heard
him say in an interview one time was
that like it's amazing how much music
progressed uh from like the ' 50s like
especially guitar music like from like
40s with like jump Blues Fats Domino and
all that stuff to like you know to Chuck
Berry then to Elvis and all the rock and
roll stuff in the
50s and then in the 60s like you know
you you then then we really start to
take shape and see like weirder band
names and the idea like what is a band
you know what concept records and um and
you know obviously like what's going on
by Marvin Gay changed everything and
like the progression of music like
changed so much and then the 70s and
like and then you know and the 80s we
have a lot of electronic music and it's
like you hit the 90s and it's like done
all right we did it all now we're just
going to recycle everything and Hip-Hop
is the one thing like well one of the
genres that has really like taken form
and evolved in so many crazy ways and
absolutely same thing with electronic
music but um but guitar music has
largely stayed the same since the early
90s and like I feel like swirlees was
one of the last bands to like really
shatter people's expectations of what
guitar music can be and um so
so it's still all very new to you know
to these younger people so they're so
and and you know young people just they
they want to buy your merch they want to
listen to you you for the next 10 years
they're going to be the people who in 10
years are like stuck in that ER right uh
when they're 30 they're going to be like
I still listen to Phil off but uh so my
other project Sunnyland is uh is me and
my brother and it's much more your kind
of traditional indie rock um the songs
that I played on the live session with
you today uh one of those is from the
release that uh we just put out it's
just called ep1 the EPS are just going
to be numbered you know um lots of music
videos coming out filmed three music
videos for it so far three out of the
four songs have videos might make one
for the fourth we're still trying to
figure that out um it's like uh Ben
gibbert style what what is death ca cu I
think it was trans glanis oh well plans
had a video for every that's was plans a
little more shock like a lot more
shotgun than that they're all just like
us like just like hanging out and
playing the songs and like you know it's
like very low budget videos and very
just fun and us just having a good time
and um a lot of it was filmed in Spokane
around the places we grew up and stuff
so um there's a lot of uh a lot of
respects being paid to my you know my
upbringing where I came from and stuff
um that's that's what Sunny land's all
about very much a Brother Band very much
like
uh kind of encapsulating all that all
the stuff I like about being in in like
a in a softer rock kind of Indie Indie
band you know because at the end of the
day that is my background you know uh
Rob
joins Jo y NES is like you can you can
find my music any anywhere and I I it's
a bit of a um Patchwork of different
kinds of music and genres but it is
still kind of your you know your sun
kill Moon kind of stuff and um Kath
Bloom inspired you know she's one of my
biggest influences and lyrically uh uh
so that's everywhere you know you can
hear all that stuff and um I've been
I've been working on a lot of very
different kinds of things with my solo
stuff and I I think it's going to take a
lot of different directions as time goes
on um the last few shows that I've
played have been just with me and a
laptop and a sampler and it's much more
like kind of sound bath like noise
collage kind of stuff they are still
very much like songs you know they do
have structure um but but it's much more
experimental so far it has not landed
nobody likes it um but if I if I release
it maybe maybe people will be a little
more excited about it I think that maybe
people just don't know what to expect
when I show up with a laptop and all
they've ever seen me play is like guitar
or piano and with and with a band with a
four on the floor you know drums and um
so uh still trying to figure that out I
am self-recording an EP right now that
doesn't have any drums and it's just
yeah it's just more like singer
songwriter kind of more keyboard focused
uh uh Sunnyland has kind of become the
outlet for for my guitar songs and uh
and I've taken the more abstract stuff
that uh I really just can't do with a
band or you know whatever and that's
that's what I'm doing now with uh with
with my solo stuff so there's a lot of
projects going on yeah that that keeps
me busy and um and the last thing I'll
do is like I said if you made it this
far I'm gonna shout out a few Seattle
bands that you should check out yeah you
should uh so apples with Moya is a great
band uh they're coming out with a new
record soon that is going to blow your
mind it is so good I got to hear the
leak and I'm really excited about it uh
dead family dog kind of inactive right
now but they have great they have a
great um release on
Spotify
um and
um let's see who else am I excited about
um man like I it's like as soon as I
said that those were the only two that I
could think of that's like what I've
been listening to the most my good
friend Luke hog fos just put out a great
record called Florida um with also done
by Sam rosson at the at the hall where I
recorded my record and um I've been I've
been listening to that a lot uh and
really vibing on it um and um yeah those
are my three wrecks there you go awesome
well thank you rob this was fun thanks
so much for having me laugh maybe think
May me giggle it was a good time we had
a fun day today we had a really fun
mandate today we did we went to uh R
great great breakfast place breakfast
had beet as we shared Brew then we did
two video live session here our behind
me and then we did a three-hour podcast
this man made me play guitar for the
first time in like a month I haven't
even like picked up a guitar and
strummed it that's right my fingers my
fingers are feeling it that's good and
uh a lot of good content today yeah
we're have a fun night too let's do it
all right well thank you everyone for
listening thank you rob for coming all
the way out from Seattle
Washington and uh for sharing your your
music today I really enjoyed it I'm
excited to hear it and edit it and work
on it and yeah check out the bands you
just mentioned and check out more
Seattle bands it's a great scene I've
always enjoyed it and uh thank you for
[Music]
listening
[Applause]
[Music]
wo
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