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Southern Section Sitdown: Thom Simmons
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[Music]
tar fatel here from SB live another
episode of Southern section sit down
coming your way and we've got a big one
in that's right it's Mr Tom Simmons the
assistant commissioner of the CIF
Southern section 26 years in the office
Mr Simmons congratulations to you that
is quite the tenure I'll start off with
this on the on the 26 years front does
it feel like it's gone by pretty fast oh
yeah it feels like it's jumped by you
know I every day it's very well every
year is very cyclical you get into fall
and then fall turns into winter and
winter turns into spring and then the
summers are no longer exist you probably
just get July for the most part summer
wise because schools are starting
earlier and early they're ending later
and later we had schools that started uh
their first year week of football
practice in Late July um schools playing
in Hawaii
the first two weeks of August so you
know zero week in football was August
18th I I don't remember in my time it's
ever been that early usually what first
week of September was for the most part
I mean when I was in high school yeah
you didn't start until after Labor Day
yeah that times have certainly changed
and I think when you think about 20 plus
years servicing the high school sports
Community Tom you know again
congratulations to you what what to you
and we'll get to the heavier stuff later
but I on a kind of a macro level what do
you has changed the most uh good bad
ugly you know when you man you wake up
it's like I've been doing this 26 years
and what do you remember from the 90s
compared to here in 2023 that's so
different well it's become more of a
business I mean there's more of a
business aspect I mean we're look where
we are right now doing what we're doing
and and you know then if you see nil and
you look at all of that and um you know
these kids are they've they're finding
new ways to
make what they do not only something
they love to do but they can profit off
it and that was never the case when I
started in this office that besides that
there we had fax machines and I what
about pagers we had P we had pagers we
know cell phones oh that's funny yeah
and I was only one of two people that
had a computer you know desktop in the
office talk about the growth of the
office obviously more schools in 26
years Tom can can you touch on that a
little bit Yeah well I there were 487
schools in the CI Southern section now
they're
565 um we had 18 Varsity Sports we have
29 now wow um there's been an influx and
and we're very proud of this a very very
huge influx in in female Athletics and
uh we we think that that's nothing but
positive providing these young ladies
the opportunity to go out there and and
participate in the sports they love just
like the boys do and it's it's it's been
an exciting time but you know it's also
been a time of a lot of change in the
office know we've in the last 2 months
we've had 67 years of uh combined
experience and friendship walk out the
door and Rob W God Riner wolf and Anita
FMA so you know that part of it has been
tough we've had a couple of losses you
know lives Wise from uh some co-workers
and when you're in an office of 17
people you're not just friends and
co-workers you're family and uh that's
the hardest thing when you're looking at
26 years and you're seeing the people
that you've lost the people that you
worked with and that are no longer here
and that part of it is always the sad
part um but you know change from for a
lot of people is a dirty word and you
just you have to put your head down and
and fight through it I think I've
actually heard you say um that you have
thousands of kids and you can you know
and you talk about the southern section
and and all the kids that are partic
participating participating in
education-based
athletics what to you is so challenging
about your job when it comes to the vast
numbers I believe the largest section in
the state um I don't know maybe the
largest section in all of the country
and when it comes to schools and numbers
it it just sounds like a lot if we were
our own State Association we' be the
ninth largest in the country just just
on our own um the state of California is
the largest uh Association in across the
country they have over, 1600 schools uh
Texas would be closest next and they
about another two 300 schools less than
what California so it's a big job it's
got a lot of
responsibility when you are thinking
about high school sports we think about
community and you're someone that has
kind of overlooked a community of of
high school sports in Southern
California the southern section have you
seen the impact of some of these
programs kind of reach Beyond what
you're talking about and talk about the
growth of some of the programs in the
section that you seem to think to
yourself man that that's that's pretty
impressive like a Saint John bosow or
modern day that travel all around the
country and they kind of put High School
football excuse me Southern California
high school football on the map per se
you must take pride in a section team
going and representing like that you
know I I always say the same thing I
take pride in uh in in those schools and
those schools that achieve at a high
level I you know um Notre Dame
basketball you know they do a great job
Harvard West like baseball they do a
great job and they succeed at a high
level and they pump out some high level
student athletes but again my focus is
on the 775,000 that will never ever wear
their uniform again and that's really
where my my love and passion goes to
when I'm putting on a championship I'm
thinking about the Sixth Man on the
bench I'm thinking about all the way
down to number 15 I'm not usually
thinking about the top five simply
because they're going to have their day
next week they're going to have their
Day next year but for some of these guys
especially in our
championships this is the last this is
their Super Bowl it's their World Series
it's their NBA championship this is
their last opportunity to to be in the
Limelight and have this amazing chance
to participate and so we always tried to
you know we try to get the best venues
we're at the Rose bow last year we be at
the Coliseum this year you know put on
the first class events um always try to
give these student athletes what we
consider to be the ultimate moment in
the Sun for them you kind of mentioned I
think it's a good segue you're alluding
to transfers the a the B the C analogy
it seems the numbers have climbed at
least in the past 10 years and so on but
before we get into the last couple years
or even this year right now I'm actually
curious 26 years ago what was what was
transfers
as was there as much Limelight
limelight's not the right word was there
as much attention on transfers 26 years
ago where kids transferring for
different reasons just the transfer in
general what's so different between now
and 25 years ago well what's different
is as you if you transferred that was
strange that was not the norm if you
transferred you you know from a modern
day to a bosow or a BOS to a poly or
something like that scratcher yeah
people would they were like what is this
person doing the transfer what is the
largest misconception when it comes to
the off office if you could for the
viewer run through kind of talk to us
like we're five I think that's fair run
through I'm student athlete a mom and
dad want to move me I'm putting in my
paperwork take us from that point to
getting on the field or on the court
what's the general basis process yeah so
we have a an administrative tool called
cfss home and that's how we communicate
with our membership that's how we uh
deal with any kind of paperwork between
the schools um it's really been life
changing and uh it's provided us with a
lot of easy access and opportunity
because before again we had two fax
machines and the receptionist desk and
they so it was all real paperwork it was
all real paperwork and I remember to
this day one day uh the receptionist at
the time she looked at those and things
and said she's 27 years old and she
said why do you have two printers in in
my office and we had to explain to her
what a fax machine was she'd had no idea
so um but the the the paperwork comes in
there are alpha cuts for each
administrator so there's a through M
there's so on and so forth for all the
administrators depending on what school
that is in their Alpha cut got it they
get the paperwork and they start going
through it now there are several
different ways you can transfer number
one this what called the valid
residential change where Mom Dad the cat
the dog everybody moves out of public
Area High School attendance area a into
B and they give up all right you and
enjoyment to the previous residents they
have to do that with permanent attent
which means they have to they can't have
the ability to go back there on weekends
and it's for 12 months 12 consecutive
months you have to give up like I said
right using enjoyment of that previous
residence that would be what would be a
valid residential change the next thing
is if you're not moving you have what's
called a sit out period which is 50% of
whatever sport it is that you're
participating in that date is a date
certain everybody thinks oh it's 30 days
it's 45 days no it's a date certain it's
half half the season
and the last is one that we've kind of
narrowed down over the years when we
especially when we went to the SOP uh
transfer and that's a hardship and a
hardship is anything that's
unforeseeable unavoidable uncorrectable
act recogition that is non-athletic in
nature so if I'm a student athlete and I
have let's say I have cancer and I have
to go to the City of Hope every week and
the school that I was going to was St
Paul but now isua is
closer if you can prove and provide
evidence and documentation that that is
a hardship then you would get your
hardship approved and you would have
immediate Varsity eligibility and I I
think the most important thing and I
know we'll probably touch on this at
some point is in the 111 year history of
this organization our staff has never
made a single bylaw there it's 276 pages
of the blue book that is done by the 88
leagues who meet three times a year that
is done by the athletic administrators
the principles the ads they come
together as a as leagues and vote on
legislation they it's proposed by them
it's debated by them and it passes are
fails by them we have no vote nobody in
the office I don't have a vote and I'm
certainly not getting rich I'm driving a
Ford Escape 2012 Ford Escape so you know
every time I hear someone say oh modern
day just gets this transfer taken care
of we'll touch on that I got they're
taking care of the CIF under the table
if only I app I appreciate the cander
and the humor too Tom I I think there
are so so many opportunities to kind of
set the record straight so many
questions especially on social media we
talked a little bit before the show and
there's a lot of misinformation out
there and what is believed to be true
and I think we all can agree if you
begin to think something over and over
again is is going on even if it's wrong
you're going to start to believe that's
what's really going on and I think you
coming on to the show and talking about
those things I is is good for everybody
and so when you talk about the valid
change of residence people always think
about okay well how how are people like
closing how are people selling their
house and closing escrow on another
house so fast that's one example oh they
must be forging the paperwork so on and
so forth please touch on that but also
there's a part of it that is uh up to
the schools there's there's a school
aspect to the policing of these
transfers can you touch on those things
please you know and this is a prime
example especially when we've we've been
talking about this no gallis thing
lately I know that's very much in
everybody's Minds what people don't
understand is because they get tied up
into the idea that we approved valid
residential changes that's not how it
works the CI of Southern section office
does not approve valid residential
changes we receive them from the school
the school has a right responsibility to
do its due diligence and make sure that
it's going out there it's checking house
and High School attendance area a to
make sure they' vacated and checking
High School tenant area B house to make
sure that they are living in there they
got stuff in the closets they've got
beds they've got their pillows they've
got everything plates dishes whatever
that's the school's responsibility so
especially when you're talking about
these kids from
ngalas we never approved any of their
valid residential changes what we did is
we received them from nalis who said in
their testimony on the paperwork they
signed that they are validating that
these are true and accurate valid
residential changes so what we do if we
come across information after the fact
then what we want to do is we want to
minimize the damage as much as possible
and the first thing that we do is we put
these kids under review or we find them
academic or ineligible based on whatever
the facts State we do that not because
we want to hurt one or two kids who we
find ineligible we do that because we
want to protect the 50 other kids in
that locker room cuz if those kids play
you're going to deal with forfeits maybe
they have the year of their lives oh
sorry you got to take it all back yeah
and that's exactly true if we can
minimize that damage then we minimize
the damage to the psyche and the mental
health of you know 50 other kids in that
lock room and I think that's what gets
missed especially in Twitter oh the CIF
they're just so is that your favorite
place I just don't understand there are
so many people go on that go on that
that site sure and state things as if
they know these to be 100% accurate and
infallible okay so the paperwork from
the school is submitted they're supposed
to police it themselves you get it what
is a good example of something that
might tip you off or the section off
that something might be a little fishy
about the paperwork or not correct what
is the action of the office then well
one good example of that would be when
you find a guardian listed under
multiple transfers to different schools
the same name the same address something
like that
another I guess piece of evidence would
be you're looking at where they're
coming from and where they're going to
they're moving from a five-bedroom $1.5
million house to a one-bedroom apartment
in a town in a part of the city they
probably wouldn't find themselves in
those are all red flags and they need to
be investigated and so the problem that
people don't really fully understand is
we're not the NCAA we do not have an
investigative Wing right in in the
office I said there's 17 of us in there
and you know we got 565 schools so we
don't have time to send out an army of
lawyers and in private investigators to
go and look at these different valid
residential changes that's why the CIF
Southern section and all the sections in
the CIF are self-policing
bodies they have a responsibility when
they join the membership to abide by the
bylaws and when they find out
information where things are not being
abided by they have a responsibility
both for themselves and for the
membership to make sure that they're
letting us know you know what they know
and providing evidence and most
importantly signing their name to
whatever it is they provide another
example that I think people got up in
arms about per se the Santa Margarita
Santa Margarita uh transferred from
Orange Lutheran a quarterback transfer
from Orange Lutheran and in the same
week or roughly thereof 10 days or
something became eligible at Santa
Margarita excuse me played in that game
played against bishop amont and there
was a notion out there that the section
office kind of picks and chooses what
paperwork they'd want to file
through prior explain how you take on
the cases if that's what you want to
call them and uh how you get to one is
it is it first come first sered and
explain that process a little bit for
those that don't know yeah so when
paperwork comes into the office it's
taken as it's provided to us we don't
put anybody up ahead in the line because
they're from Orange County we don't put
anybody up ahead in the line for the
modern day we take everything as it
comes on an intake basis they stay at
the top of the pile unless there's more
evidence and more information than we
need then we will move them down until
we can get to the next one and see if we
can't clear that one faster it's always
about trying to this is the one thing
that is so tough being in this job
especially as time has gone by we are in
the high school eligibility business we
are not in the high school ineligibility
business right if we can find a kid
eligible and we can find a kid eligible
as soon as possible that's what we want
to do now it has to be done via the
bylaws it has to be done via the rules
but if we can we're going to find kids
eligible that's the most important thing
now with regard to the Santa Margarita
kid that's a valid residential move I
don't approve valid residential move
Santa Margarita did they said they did
their due diligence they said they went
to the houses and they verified that
that that move is taken place unless
someone has some evidence to prove
otherwise and the mortgage company
wanted to do a 10day me esir yep those
do exist they exist no question about
that so
the nature of your
job it's so um polarizing I think the
office with so many transfers so many
kids moving this kid's eligible he has
to be an sop oh NOP he's ineligible why
aren't they investigating that oh that
one went through super easy it seems
like that's more of your job now than
some of the other things that I would
think you were probably more passionate
about you know is that an unfortunate
part of this uh you know job that you're
in Tom in some ways it can be you know I
I would I much rather be on a football
field or a baseball field or a
basketball court or you know on a a pool
deck yes for that question that's the
fun part of that
job but you know when I took the job
back in 1997 this was part of the job
too and you know you take the bidder
with this with the SED and and that's
kind of what you have to how you have to
attack this job is part of your job is
to do things that are that can be
unpopular they can be misunderstood they
can be hurtful and damaging to kids um
and you don't want to do that you that's
never your intention I didn't go into
this job to to do that went into this
job because I love sports and I love
education-based Athletics and I love
High School sports and I want to be a
part of that but you know there has to
be a governing body the win atall cost
mentality is a good set way to talk
about some of those Powerhouse programs
and because the trans transer Market Per
Se it's probably a bad way to put it but
because the transfers are so rampant in
such a high clip those kind of the rich
get richer it seems sometimes Tom and
then you got these programs that feel
like they have to kind of play that game
too if they don't want to get blown out
by 35 every Friday night or by 30 on the
scoreboard in basketball is there a way
to to fix that um you know if if you if
you had a magic wand to kind of swirl it
it whether it be you know changing some
of the transfer rules or the way schools
might operate is there a fix for that
for me that's not that's not a topic I
can touch and I and I'll simply say that
to you because again it's the will of
the membership if the membership wanted
to to do something about that sure
there's an easy fix one year no
eligibility whenever you transfer that
that that that's one way you could go
and and talk about and and for the
viewer that might not know when you talk
about membership agreeing to do that
you're C can you explain a hypothetic Al
if they wanted to make that rule okay
you transfer you got to sit out a whole
year how would that go about well you
would go to again the council which is
we talked about your league would make a
proposal at the council level and like I
said they make they meet three times a
year and they're comprised of the 88
leagues that make the membership they
vote on all legislation if they wanted
to uh you got to remember now that
because transfers are a Statewide rule
you would have to go not only at the
section level but you'd have to go at
the state level too so the state
Federated would have to weigh in and
vote on this as well but if it got out
of the section level and you know the
majority and it doesn't have to be
2third or just it be a simple majority
if the majority of those leagues wanted
to change it change it it gets changed
then it goes to the state Federated and
then all 10 sections and then what we
call Allied organizations would would
vote on it so like capso and csada and
you know these different or
organizations that have votes on that
state Federated council is it a little
bit similar to how girls flag football
came about kind of just like one section
then it goes to the state level then
kind of everybody votes on okay it's
sanctioned so kind of the same process
per exact same governance okay okay not
any different okay and so when it comes
to making that
change why is it you think more membered
schools or membership the leagues why
why don't you think there's more of a
push to try and change that I don't
think that the membership really wants
to penalize kids like that you know
let's let's just take for example I I'm
going to school in Seattle Washington
and my dad gets a job at Boeing right
and Boeing transfers him to Long
Beach should he be penalized because Dad
got a new job right I don't think so the
problem people always then make out is
okay what the there's got to be a
reasonable distance okay so what's the
reasonable distance is it because
they're moving from
Fresno or is it because they're moving
from the valley you know that's what
people can't come to an agreement on
what is a reasonable distance to
consider that a kid who makes a valid
residential change should be able to do
that and do that without penalty because
you know we're talking 14 15 16 17 18
year old kids and they don't have the
choices they their parents are making
those choices for them if in in many
instances so should they be penalized in
certain situations
yeah playoff system little the the
football playoff system the cow preps
rankings the the computer system you
know people seem to have issue with that
is there a misconception on that that
maybe you'd like to address well it's
funny because we just had you know this
first reading for 2425 at Council where
we're talking about going to that system
in all sports and one of the the
mathematicians that we had that came in
and spoke to the council he had this
graph and the graph which was showing in
all the different sports where schools
using the two-year model were so wildly
misplaced in terms of the division that
they could compete in and football was
an exact replica of perfection in terms
of the teams that were winning division
one championships were competing in
division one championships belonged in
division one championships all the way
down to division 14 it was just these
perfect
blocks that that's because they're based
on what's Happening Now not when you've
had a once- in a generational team two
years ago who that now have taken your
number and risen it up that's the thing
that I think people uh are looking
forward to because they see the value in
that they see the value in making sure
that we have a competitive balance
throughout all of the sports and all the
divisions and that can't happen if again
you're using two years of data that's
just that's not realistic and it's not
fundament feasible and so we believe
that by
2425 with the help of our friends at
scorebook live we will have a data
driven system that will allow us to
create that uh that perfect that perfect
system that couple other things and then
I think we'll kind of start wrapping up
I wanted to touch on one thing and
that's the um athletically motivated
transfer can can you doesn't exist okay
it doesn't exist that that's what I
thought so it used give us the history
on athletically motivated to answer
please when we went through to from uh
you know the different bylaws for for
valid residental change and hardship and
we instituted sop the very first thing
that we took out was athletically
motivated transfers the only thing with
regard to athletically motivated
transfers that still exists is if you
follow a coach within 24 months got it
so I'm at school a and my new coach gets
a job at school B and I transfer to
school be that's an athletically
motivated transfer so is that why that
verbage is still in the book in the only
place that it's there is that one L I
feel like people have kind of just seen
that and it's out of context and they
run with it like it still exists I'm
like I'm pretty sure that was gone a
while ago I can trans hard to prove
right is that there's an element of that
too Tom sure I can transfer that was why
we got one of the reasons we got rid of
the the bylaws because if you just kept
your mouth shut yeah you you could never
be in violation of the bylaw but as soon
as you open your mouth and you said hey
yeah this was a better opportunity for
me to play football at school B and
that's why you were done yeah it's in LA
Times or it's an you know Daily News you
know blah you know simple little quote
it's like okay you're not playing yeah
and it didn't make any sense for us to
Institute a baa that basically you
couldn't win right could can't prove
that you can't prove it okay so okay so
doesn't exist anymore for everybody out
there the public private public private
I think certainly privates have more
resources than
Publix you know I think a lot of people
suggest hey you know let's split up the
divisions go public ver and private I
believe Texas does that has there ever
been conversation of that at the office
and again I I think I feel like you're
going to go back to the the the
membership but may maybe your opinion on
how maybe there are pros and cons to
that system well this is what I tell you
is there are the membership is split
almost 6040 public
private since I've been doing uh
statistical analysis this goes back to
the 80s the number of championships won
by public schools is around 60% and the
number of championships won by private
schools around 40% so in proportion to
membership they're winning as many
championships as they should they're not
outside of the bounds of that
statistical anomaly the other part of
the equation is for every modern day and
every St John bosow and every Notre Dame
there are 16 Public Safety acms there
are 10 Riverside community churches
there are 15 Le laay there are 12
Flintridge Sacred Hearts I think the
last couple ones we'll touch on maybe on
a lighter note is just I I've been
asking the guest this are you still
having
fun you you still having fun doing this
job you know I think that this job is
again we talked about it in other terms
it's a very cyclical as well well for me
and has been um I lost uh and my
assistant of 26 years who retired but I
gained someone who I think is going to
take that position to Greater Heights
than I could have ever
imagined so I'm kind of coming out of a
state of mourning having lost my best
friend in the world Rob WOD the former
commissioner probably my second best
friend in the world rer wolf ass
commissioner and who was basically my
work wife for 26 years and so that's a
lot of loss in a two-month period but
again I'm so excited and she's not on
camera but maybe she will be on camera
at some point we'll get her on camera
but I'm excited about the opportunity to
start with this new young lady and build
something that I think will be of great
benefit to the membership and will
provide what I think is something that's
very very lacking with the with the
death of newspaper
and that is more coverage about high
school and education based Athletics
that's why you're I'm excited to have
you as part of scorebook live it's why
I'm excited to have her in our office
that's why I think that uh this the
visual medium is going to take over the
print medium and it's going to be
something that's going to be far greater
and it's going to get more people
excited so am I still having fun you
know if you asked me a month ago
probably not but I'm starting to have
fun again you know and and hopefully you
know my my team and I will will continue
to make what we do what it should be and
it should be fun I think I think that's
an underrated word I think people they
think as fun is like that's so secondary
you know and and I think there's an
element to it that that's needed you got
to thread something in there and and of
course the wonderful addition to your
office is Taylor Martinez who helped put
this set together so thank you Taylor
thank you Taylor but you know I I wanted
to ask you that because I think when
you've been around long enough you've
seen The Good the Bad and the Ugly and I
think right now kind of like what you're
alluding to things are things are get
there's a lot of miscommunicate
misinformation out there and it makes
your job a little bit more difficult but
I think an opportunity like this to set
the record straight and be transparent I
think I think the high school sports
Community is going to appreciate that so
the last question I'm going to ask you
is if he had that magic wand and you
could kind of swirl it around how would
you like to see the the the health of
high school sports is is there is there
maybe an example you could give me that
that it's like that's the high school
sports realm I want to
see well just talking about her she in
the last Taylor in the last couple of
days has brought me several different
articles about story ideas that she
really wants to look at and it's story
ideas that I never knew existed and
they're Feelgood story ideas you know
one kid's been playing football he's got
one leg you know um
the thing that I that gets me jazzed and
makes me want to keep coming to work
every day are those stories those kids
their what what means something to them
and gets them jazzed and so if I had a a
magical wand that I could wave and and
change it would be to get the business
aspect out of it and let's get back to
the pure joy of of doing something we
love it's just you know that's what it
is it's kids being kids and if we could
just have more of
that then that would be pretty
cool ladies and gentlemen Tom Simmons
Tom thanks for coming in I hope you had
a little fun you know I know sometimes
the topics can get a little a little
jarring and and they can challenge but I
think transparency is really important I
think that's why you came on here and I
think that's I think people are going to
appreciate your explanation of just some
basic rules that they actually seem
pretty black and white there's not a lot
of of you can't really get around them I
think the way you put it is just hey
this is the way it is and this is the
way our our office operates and I know
that if something else comes up um
you're easy to get in touch with so
thanks again for coming on well I
appreciate you having me and anytime I
can come on and set the record St
straight I'm happy to do so yeah would
love to have you that's another edition
of Southern section sitdown I'm tar
fatel thanks for
[Music]
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