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From Intern to Tech Entrepreneur – Dan Ward on The Leader’s Mindset Podcast | Jason LeDuc Leadership Consultants | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: From Intern to Tech Entrepreneur – Dan Ward on The Leader’s Mindset Podcast
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The first thing is how do these
individuals react to the support group.
I would consider myself in a meeting the
support group. I was not there to
participate in the meeting per se. I was
there to see their support dance
technology presentation whatever it
might be. And the very best leaders were
always the ones that would acknowledge
my presence. They would say hello. They
Welcome to the leaders mindset where we
bring you conversations with leaders who
are making an impact in business and our
communities. Today my guest is Dan Ward,
the co-founder and president at Detroit
Labs. Thanks for joining us today, Dan.
>> Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it.
it.
>> Yeah, it's going to be great. What is
Detroit Labs and how did it come about?
>> Great question. So we are a software
design and development studio. Um not
shocking but we are downtown Detroit and
uh we work with uh large brands to um uh
to unpack some of their challenges uh
look for some opportunities in the
marketplace and we design and develop
digital solutions for them. So we've
worked with some really really great uh
partners uh over the years. Obviously we
are downtown Detroit so the automotive
industry is uh right down the street
from us. So, we've uh been able to
partner with Ford, GM,
Volkswagen, actually Hyundai Kia a
little bit, too. And then uh we've also
we've also uh uh partnered with uh Jimmy
John's. Uh so, if you've ever ordered a
sandwich with the Jimmy John's uh mobile
app or website, that's our uh um our
partnership with them. And so, we
started the business back in 2011. Um
the idea there was not really
remarkable. It's a services uh company.
So uh but the idea was really based
around mobile development at the time. I
think that's what was uh really hot at
the time and it was uh something for us
ended up being a lot of opportunity. And
so um that's where kind of we we got going.
going.
>> And what I understand is you one of your
focuses very early on was user
interface, user experience kind of
before other people were talking about
that. How how did that come about? How
has that helped you as a business?
>> Yeah, we feel really passionate about
building software that people actually
use. Uh, you know, there's a the old the
old adage, right, of of if a if a tree
falls in the in the woods and no one's
here or no one's there to hear the
sound, did it make a sound type thing?
Well, uh, in in our mind, if you build
software and you spend all this money on
software and no one uses it or they
can't use it, was it actually worth your
investment? Was it valuable? And uh ear
early on we we really learned that that
it was important to make sure that
whatever you build, whatever you you
invest in, it's solving a problem. It's
solving a challenge and people can
actually use it. So we would draw a lot
of inspiration uh based off of other
apps that were out there that that
customers use. I mean, you know,
Instagram, Twitter at the time, right?
Like what are some of the reasons people
use these apps? what are some of the
design elements that really bring people
back in and can we learn from that and
bring that to you know the corporate
apps uh or to the B2B apps even and so
we have found user experience really the
way to get adoption when it comes to uh
digital solutions
now Detroit Labs has a little bit of a
unique story as a startup I understand
that your four co-founders you the the
four co-founders you were all put
together by an investor like a boy band.
>> Yeah, it's it's so funny the boy band
thing. Uh yes, that that is very true.
Um we actually didn't know each other
going into it. Uh we we I think all
different had like different ideas for
this company, right? And and I think we
had talked to uh investment group
different times, right? Completely
unrelated. And then that investment
group was like, "Hey, listen. I I think
that you all could potentially work well
together and they put us together. So,
stereotypical boy band thing. I'm I'm
sure we're not uh we're not that
handsome and we don't sing or dance very
well, but um we ended up working really
well together. We kind of complemented
each other.
Talked about it like kind of a ven
diagram. There's not a ton of overlap.
Like we do things really well and and we
we very much bring different skill sets
to the table. uh one of our one of our
co-founders about a year in uh went off
to do another startup and a few other
things. Um great guy. Every once in a
while we we run into him. But the three
of us are still running the business. Uh
we have a leadership team and we are
still part of that leadership team and
it works well. I will say I I tell
everybody all the time when you're
looking to start a business,
starting it with people you don't know
is actually a really really beneficial
thing because you can get into a room
and you can you can argue, you can pound
your fist on the table, you can raise
your voice, and then afterwards you can
go get lunch because you're not worried
about this, you know, decades of
friendship baggage that might come with
that. You know, do they always dislike
me? Do they always disagree with me? You
kind of ignore that. And I think it's a
healthy way to start a business.
>> Yeah. Uh I had never heard of this till
I talked to you a couple weeks ago about
it. And I I kind of like this. I kind of
like this idea of you know, investors
see a lot of founders, especially a lot
of solo founders pitching ideas. And you
know, sometimes it's never quite right
quite right with the solo founder with
the idea, but throwing a few of them
together really shows some promise. And
you talked about the the one of the
advantages is you didn't have
relationship baggage coming into it with
your co-founders like like many
co-founders do. What else were some of
the advantages of being put together
with a group of guys you didn't know to
start a company?
>> Yeah, I think I think there's the I
think there's a general um value in
having just people surrounding you. So
whether you know them or not, I think
there is you know listen doing a startup
is incredibly difficult. There are times
that are really successful and then
there are times that are really awful,
really painful. And I always joke around
and say misery loves company. And so
when it does get difficult, when when
things are hard, when things are
miserable, it's really nice to have a
crew that you can at least go to and
they're experiencing the exact same
thing. Um, so regardless of if if if I
knew them or not, I have found that that
is just a really comforting thing. Um
because over time, right, it all hasn't
always been roses. Uh we've had our fair
share of challenges and being able to
sit across from each other and know that
we're all kind of going through that
same thing, that same, you know,
hardship, difficultness, what whatot,
it's it's comforting.
>> Yeah. And there's a lot of data out
there that shows that
startups that have co-founders that are
started by co-founders
are uh startups that are started by
co-founders do better raising money in
the early days. They do better scaling
when they get to that point. They do
better when they start to grow into a
larger company. So in addition to it it
feels better and you've kind of got that
misery loves company thing. You've also
got some hard data that says companies
with co-founders do a lot better.
What was something difficult about
working with a bunch of guys you didn't know?
know?
>> Um I think just trying to figure out
what everyone was good at early on. I I
think there's probably some
self-consciousness when you go into it
wondering, okay, well, are they
overlapping their skill sets with mine?
Are we going to be in a situation where
we're kind of like competing for the
value that we bring to the business? And
and I mean, we were fortunate enough
that that wasn't the case. And I think a
lot of the reasons that we we figured
that out rather quickly is because we
became open-minded and you have to bring
some level of, you know, the business is
bigger than than you. Um, I I I grew up
playing playing sports and specifically
team sports and I remember coaches would
always just say, you know, the program
is bigger than the players. And so there
was no one player that was going to end
up, you know, taking, you know, taking
the team to the next level. But that
player, you know, your best player could
get removed and another one shows back
up. The program, the team, the the the
goal is always bigger than the
individual. And I I think that once we
kind of, you know, laid the cards on the
table, understood, oh yeah, you know,
this person's really great at finances,
governance, understanding how a business
actually runs, this person's really
great at culture, growing, uh, the
technical environment, the skill sets,
the talent that we have, this individual
is great at sales and marketing. It just
became really clear that we bring
complimentary skill sets. And then where
we overlap, we just kind of view that as
like that's the spot where you bring a
lot of that tension and and I would call
it healthy arguments to
>> Was there anything that none of you were
good at that you had to figure out who
was going to take it on as you got going?
going?
>> Um, yeah. I I would say early on,
honestly, I would say sales. And I think
sales in general have always been our
biggest challenge. So, I I remember
early on as the person that had to do a
lot of the actual um selling and
presenting and pitching to clients, I I
was incredibly terrified about showing
up at a client's, you know, office and
pitching them about Detroit Labs and
doing it well and and I think, you know,
early on we recognized that that was
going to be a problem, right? You have
to be able to sell your services if you
want business, otherwise you business.
So, uh, we ended up getting some
coaching early on to help us figure out,
you know, how to qualify a lead, how to
best present, uh, you know, the
structure of actual selling, a lot of
like sales 101 tactics. And so, that was
really helpful because we kind of all
acknowledged that, hey, we don't have
this. So, we worked on that. And then,
it's kind of interesting because we
really like learned how to sell once we
became face to face with a client. But
the piece that we never quite learned
and that you know honestly I'm still
kind of trying to figure this out is
that uh the outbound and inbound
strategy that lead generation strategy
and that's a challenge that we have even
as leaders and we've looked to expand
our leadership group to help us solve that.
that.
>> You know it's so funny because that's
something that 10 years into this for
myself I still am working on the inbound
outbound thing. Once I once I get into
the room it usually goes great. we close
the deal. But getting into that room has
always been the challenge for me.
>> It is incredibly difficult. Um and and
we've been so far we have a plan right
now. Um we ended up bringing in a leader
that has a plan that they've run in the
past and I'll be sure to let you know
how it works.
>> That that sounds fantastic. I would love
to if it's working for you, I'd love to
get any advice you've got. All right,
before we go any further, what's up with
the sneakers? For those of you who are
listening and aren't watching this,
behind Dan are a bunch of shelves and
there's books and pictures on there, but
there's a bunch of sneakers all over the shelves.
shelves.
>> Yeah. Um, sneaker. Okay, so I think
maybe maybe I rewind back a big I was a
big basketball fan growing up. Uh, a big
Michael Jordan fan. I I was a Pistons
fan early on, but still, you know, I
love Michael Jordan. And so, you know,
every year I would ask and beg my
parents to get whatever the latest pair
of Jordans. That was going to be my
school pair. And that was my one pair
for this for the year until they ripped
up. And then I would get a new pair
going into next year. And, you know, you
may or may not try to accelerate the
wear on the pair to make sure that you
get another another version. And then um
it was just I was kind of always
obsessed with that culture and obsessed
with uh the the latest release from a
pair of Jordans. And so once I ended up
uh getting a few bucks, getting an
actual job, started to kind of collect
shoes. And I say kind of, but I have
like 60 pairs of shoes in this office,
so maybe it's not a kind of. And the
biggest thing is I try to get limited
releases. So, I try to focus my dollars
to otherwise I probably would have 200
pairs in here. But I also wear every
single pair. So, there are a lot of shoe
collectors that
buy shoes, put them away, never touch
them. They're called dead stock and they
never touch them. And I do not subscribe
to that program. And I absolutely love
to wear all of my shoes. So, they're on
shelves and when they're not on shelves,
they're on my feet. Uh that's great to
hear because you know life is for the
living and uh shoes are for the wearing, right?
right?
>> Exactly. They belong on feet and
concrete and I sometimes get a lot of
looks because some of my more limited
ones I might be wearing out in the rain
or I might get dirt on them. But you
know, all shoes can be clean.
>> Yeah. And uh probably the worst part of
that is someone who sees you wearing
them who freaks out and starts yelling
at you, right? I have had some
interesting um I I wore a very limited
pair unintentionally in a snowstorm in
Minnesota one time and I was checking
into a hotel and the first thing they
said was, "Oh my goodness, I've never
seen those in person." And they wanted
to come up and look at them. Weird, but
okay, sure. And and then they kind of
freaked out that I was walking in snow
with them. And I had to remind them like
snow is just water. Water repels off
these shoes. It's just leather. you can
clean it really easily. So, there's been
a couple different scenarios where that
was a bit weird.
>> That is That is a little weird, but uh a
fun story. So, before Detroit Labs, you
worked at Rocket, which coincidentally I
just got an email from my mortgage
provider today saying they've just been
bought by Rocket. So, tell us a little
time you were at Rocket and what your
role there was.
>> Yeah, it sounds like you have Mr. Cooper
as you're servicing. The the deal the
deal went through this morning. Uh so
anyways, I I ended up uh they were Quick
and Loans at the time um right out of
college. I 2007 I think I had applied
for a job over there. It was technical
support analyst I think was the the the
work. I I would go around and replace
keyboards and mice and if a computer
stopped working I would fix it. That
type of stuff. And I I I did that for
about three months or so. And then there
was an opening on the support team that
focused on the executives. And so I felt
like that would be an interesting
opportunity. And truth be told, I really
kind of wanted it because they got a lot
of the newer technology. They got their
newer Blackberries and the newer
computers because the executives had
those and they had to be able to support
them. So they had to know how to use
them. So that was honestly probably the
draw for me. So I applied for that role.
Uh was fortunate enough to get it. uh
worked with another individual on that
team that supported the executives and
then uh eventually I had to go in and
help Dan Gilbert with with problem and
and it went well solved the issue and
then the next time he had a problem they
called me went in solved the issue and
and Dan and I got along
not really sure there's probably a lot
to unpack for why we got along but we
did and and and our personalities uh
vibed pretty well and so I started to
help him in a more dedicated fashion. So
the other individual that I was working
with would focus more on the broader
executive team and I would focus more of
my energy and efforts on helping Dan,
supporting Dan. And that ended up uh
turning into me sitting outside Dan's
office. That was where my desk was. And
then there was an opportunity one time
where Dan's support crew wasn't able to
go with him to New York one time. and
and you know in instead of Dan you know
going by himself he had a couple
different meetings there was uh you know
I I offered to go with him I was like oh
you know New York that's interesting
never been there you know flying on a
jet like that sounds cool so I offered
to go with Dan and I I had an assignment
I had to get him to two meetings and uh
now be clear Dan's very capable of doing
this himself uh but that was that was my
my assignment
and I had fun with him. And I think, you
know, again, our our personalities
worked really well. I was able to get
him to those meetings. Uh we had a
pretty good time together. And, you
know, I started to go on probably 60 to
80% of his trips. Sometimes I was in a
support role where I would support from
a technology standpoint. Sometimes I was
in a role where I'd help him build out a
presentation. Built out a lot of his
presentations uh when I was working for
him. And sometimes it was silly things
like doing Photoshop stuff for him, you
know, to send an email out. It was an
interesting role and uh it evolved over
time. So I found myself, like I said,
from like traveling 60% of the time to
80% of the time and going to a lot of
Cavs games because you own the Cavs and
great sports fan and uh meeting a lot of
people and it was just a very
interesting gig and that was about four
years right up until we started Detroit Labs.
Labs.
As you got more involved with traveling
and attending meetings with Dan,
supporting him in meetings, you got to
see Dan as well as some other very
highpowered leaders with a lot of
responsibility. You got to see them in action.
action.
>> What did you learn from those leaders
and those experiences?
>> Yeah, I I think there's always two
things I pull. There's probably more,
but there's always two that I really
really get stuck in my head. and and one
of them has become it's kind of become a
core piece of how I evaluate individuals
right wrong or indifferent but the the
first thing is how do these individuals
react to the support group I would
consider myself in a meeting the support
group I was not there to participate in
the meeting per se I was there to see
their support dance technology
presentation whatever it might be and
the very best leaders were always the
ones that would acknowledge my presence
They would say hello. They would
introduce themselves. Uh the worst
leaders were the ones that would just
straight up ignore me or ask me to do
something for them that, you know,
probably I shouldn't do or or you know,
nothing bad, but just like go get them
something. And I'm like, well, I'm not
your support crew. Why would you just
assume I would do that? And um so that
was the first thing. I really noticed
that people in high powers and high
positions that would acknowledge the
support crew and be nice to them and
welcoming them and and introduce
themselves as if they were a a peer at
the table. Very best leaders by far.
>> And then uh the other piece of it too
was and this was honestly this was Dan's superpower.
superpower.
He was so and is still so inquisitive.
So he would come into a room and he
might be in that room with very little
background information or he knew a
little bit going in there. Maybe he did
some homework and and understood why,
you know, he was there. Obviously some
of the bigger meetings he he did a lot
of homework for, but it was interesting
because he would ask so many questions
in the meeting and what he was trying to
be what he was trying to do is one, you
know, make a connection with the
individual. wanted the individual to
feel valued that they were they were in
the meeting and they they were having
that time with Dan. He but he was also
trying to become an expert in the room.
He was trying to make sure that he
really understood what they were talking
about, what product it was, what pitch
it was, and he would also he would
always ask a bunch of questions. And the
interesting thing was after those
meetings, uh, I would often still be in
the room packing some things up and
maybe I would talk to the individual
that that he had the meeting with and
their response was always, "Wow, he
really cared. Wow, he really understood
what we were, you know, pitching, what
we were selling." It's like almost like
he did his homework and like he
researched this. And in reality, it was
just Dan being inquisitive. And I don't
even know if he knows that he does that,
right? like it's just natural for him to
ask a lot of questions, seek to
understand, and I mean now maybe he
understands it a little bit more, but
like in the moment I think that's just
him and and I really think that's his superpower.
>> Are there any other lessons you took
from Dan about being a startup founder
and how you run your company today?
Yeah, I I I think that
Dan was always really good at reacting
by his gut. So, um he always would say,
"Money doesn't leave, it follows." It's
one of his isms that that he always
talked about and and it means a lot of
things, but but really it's acting based
on your gut. And if you do the right
things, if you try to get ahead of
certain different scenarios, if you if
you drive by your passion, if you stick
with your plan with what you know is
best best for your team members, um, and
best for the folks that are around you,
money tends to follow. And and I really
wholeheartedly believe that if if you're
if you're doing like we we always said
we're if we're doing the right things,
success will end up coming. And that is
that you know, money doesn't lead, it
follows. And I I we still run our
business that way. Sometimes the money
following can take a little bit of time,
but we still run our business often
times with our our gut being uh a strong
piece of the decision-m dynamic.
dynamic.
It sounds like Dan was a great mentor to
you. He he helped encourage and build
your skills as a leader while you were
helping him with technical issues or
anything else he needed. What did you
learn about mentoring emerging leaders
from Dan?
>> Yeah, you know, it it's interesting. I
think what comes to mind is access. So
trusting what you know, Dan really
trusted that I could be in the room with
some of these very influential people.
He he he trusted that I would be exposed
to a lot of decisions that were
confidential but that I would keep them confidential.
confidential.
And I actually was in a was in a meeting
with him yesterday
and he brought an intern in and that Dan
has a pattern of bringing interns into rooms
rooms
where they're big meetings. there's
decisions to be made and they're exposed
to just a lot of different situations
and dynamics in those rooms and there's
not a lot of leaders that would be
comfortable enough to do that and I know
that's not isolated to me when I was
with them and I know that's not isolated
to the meeting yesterday. There are a
lot of folks within Rocket that started
as interns with Tan and they're
successful because he gave them access
and exposure early on and and he he
really he treated them as if they were
going to grow into the organization at
some point in time. So I really think
that's like if you want to be a good
mentor, you know, pull the curtains back
a little bit, give them access to to,
you know, meetings or allow them to ask
questions. I mean, can't tell you how
many times an individual earlier in
their career is just afraid to ask a
question just and and afraid to ask
like, "Hey, what went through your mind
when you made that decision, right? Just
just because often times as a mentor,
you don't think to step back and say,
hey, I made that decision because X, Y,
and Z." Because you're not assuming that
the individual cares that much for why
you did something, but they do. And so
if you can kind of give that culture of
access and that I think it I think
that's what makes a great mentor and
certainly that's what made Dan a great mentor.
mentor.
>> Yeah. I look back on my time in the Air
Force and the leaders that impacted me
the most the ones who impacted the
leader I became later were the ones who
would bring me to those meetings and
they would tell me before going in this
is what we're trying to get out of this
meeting. Right? And sometimes it was
we're trying to get approval for
something. Sometimes it was we're just
we're just going to be in there so that
they know we're here and we're we're on
board with this. There was always a
there was always a purpose and then it
was always sit down sit down on the side
of the room. Don't say anything unless
someone asks you a question and then
look at me first and I'll nod if you can
answer it. And then most importantly,
uh, the the really really great ones
would debrief on the way out, like on
the car ride on the way back going,
"Let's talk about what happened in that
meeting and and how you think it went
and and and what what comes next." So,
yeah, it was interesting. Dan Dan is
he could be a really humble guy. And I
think that there is an assumption on his
part that
why would I care why he made that
decision or why would I care about his
strategy for that, right? And and I I
honestly I think that comes from a very
endearing place, very humble place.
head. But but he kind of flipped that
and encouraged me just to ask questions
because he didn't know what I wanted.
And so I think it was just that,
you know, pushing of me a little bit and
then honestly when I would ask, he'd
give me great answers. So I knew that
behavior was good. I knew I could
continue to ask him. And uh he's really
great about that.
>> Yeah. Getting young emerging leaders to
start to think like executives and
senior leaders, start to think
strategically is one of the hardest
transitions in all of leadership. But
that mentoring, that one-on-one, let's
let's debrief it. Ask me your questions.
I'll try to explain as much as I can is
so critical to helping emerging leaders
become our future strategic leaders for tomorrow.
tomorrow.
>> Yeah, I 100% agree. I mean, you have you
have to encourage people to actually be
be willing to I mean, that works across
just leadership, too. just en encourage
them to be curious. I think is Dan uses
that word a lot too. Be curious.
>> I I I think it's
if not the most critical quality for
leaders, probably one of the most
critical quality qu quality for leaders
and it's not taught enough.
>> I agree.
>> All right. Well, let's take a break from
this. Let's play a game. Are you up for
a game?
>> I can do games. Yeah, sure.
>> All right. The name of this game is
rapid response. I'm going to ask you a
series of questions. I want you to
respond with the first thing that comes
to your mind. Now, that doesn't mean you
have to give a one-word answer.
Elaborate as much or as little as you'd
like. Tell a story if you'd like that
goes along with the answer. We'd love to
get to know our guests and we'd love to
get to know you in a way that maybe some
of the other questions won't uh answer
for us. Okay,
>> sounds good.
>> All right, Dan Ward, rapid response
round. Your time begins now.
now.
Podcast recommendation.
Oh. Um, conspiracy Theories. It's on
Spotify. It is hosted by Carter Roy. I
personally am not a conspiracy theorist,
but I am fascinated by some of the
stories that they end up building
conspiracies around. They talk about a
lot of historical events and they talk
about the fact that these historical
events ended up getting surrounded in
conspiracies and they try to unpack why.
Um, the podcast they are also not
conspiracy theorists. So, it is kind of
like an interesting I don't know. My my
my 11-year-old uh and I listen to it
while we drive to baseball and it's very fascinating.
fascinating.
>> So, first let me let me say I think it's
great that you and your 11-year-old
listen to a podcast together. I think
that's fantastic.
>> A couple we listen to.
Uh, also if I weren't doing this right
now, I would be downloading every
episode I could of that podcast right
now because I'm not a conspiracy guy
either. But I am fascinated by how
historic historical events because we
live in an uncertain world and there are
things that are uncertain about those
events turn into these conspiracy
theories and I I cannot wait to listen
to that.
>> It's fantastic. I have a history degree,
so it kind of tugs on my heartstrings a
little bit. Uh because there's it's it's
all history at the end of the day.
>> Well, I I can't wait. I can't wait. That
is the um you win the we're we're not
even out at 2025 yet. I think you win
the award for best podcast
recommendation for 2025 on this podcast.
>> Perfect. Glad
>> if you're watching and you're coming on
the show in the next few weeks, you
know, try to try to take the king down,
I guess.
What's your favorite pair of sneakers?
>> Oh, a great question. Um, I'm going to
grab them because these are the ones
that I actually did wear in the snow and uh
uh
they are a collaboration between Nike
and Travis Scott and this brand called
Fragment. And uh I love the color. I
love the pink laces. I love that they're
Jordan 1 lows. There there's just a lot
to love about these because I feel like
they can be
kind of fun, funky, but at the same time
I wear them with a suit as well. And so
they can be kind of dressed up a little
bit, tame down a little bit, but still
add a little something. So they are one
of my favorite ones. They're probably
one of my more limited ones. And they
are the pair that went stomping through
a snowstorm and turned out just fine. So,
So,
>> it's like picking my favorite kid. So,
just to be clear, that's very hard for
me to try to do.
>> Yeah, I understand. Hold them up to the
camera for us one more time. Get a like
right in front of the camera. Get Let us
get a good look at them.
>> Oh, those are pretty.
>> Yeah. Yeah, they're they they have been
worn well. So, they are they are one of
my favorites, but I clean my shoes a
lot, so they don't necessarily look like
they've been
>> Well, it sounds like you take good care
of them.
>> I do. I do. That's That's how they keep
moving on me. So, that's how they keep
on my feet.
>> Who is someone we should all be paying
attention to?
>> Ooh. Just in general.
>> Uh, in in general or specifically, who's
someone you're paying attention to?
>> Oh jeez, that is a great great question. Um,
[Music]
well, I was trying to think of sports
there for a minute because I played
fantasy football and I was really paying
attention to Tyreek Hill that went out
yesterday, um, unfortunately for the
season, but uh, uh, all right, I'm in
Detroit. The person I'm probably paying
attention to the most right now is AJ
Hinch. Um, and then with a with I know
I'm allowed to pick only one, but close
second there is probably Dan Campbell.
So, uh, the Tigers beat the Indians
yesterday, Guardians I should say. Uh,
and so hopefully they have a little bit
of a postseason run and then hopefully
the Lions aren't too far after him. I
hope so. The uh, the Red Sox uh, won it
yesterday against the Yankees in a
nailbiter, which is very typical for the
Red Sox, especially the postseason. So,
I I hope we get to see uh get to see uh
Red Sox Detroit coming up and uh and
>> that knocks the Yankees out. I'll be happy.
happy.
>> We'll have to we'll have to link up on a
a video or something and uh do a live
watch together or something. >> Perfect.
>> Perfect.
>> What's your pumpup song or your walk-on music?
music?
>> Oh my goodness. Okay, so
this is probably going to date me and
I've been introducing my son to this.
So, there's a lot of, I think, new stuff
that I I would love, too. But, um, Limp
Biscuit, I introduced my son to Limp
Biscuit, uh, the other day. My wife and
I were actually listening to it in the
house, and I think the song that would
be my pump up would be Break Stuff by
Limp Biscuit.
>> It's It's a pretty intense song. I got
some other ones that I used when I
played hockey that, you know, would be
in the same category, but this one is,
you know, I I coach flag football and so
on the way to flag football games, I've
been playing it for my 11-year-old and
he's like, "Oh, that's really cool." And
warmed my heart a little bit. So, yeah,
break stuff by Limp Biscuit. Uh what's
crazy is our local alternative station
has been playing Old Limp Biscuit stuff
much more frequently the last couple
weeks and that is in heavy rotation
right now on uh the local alternative
station here in Vegas.
>> Well, they uh they've been on and off
touring. Um and then Wes Borland, their
lead guitarist, and he also writes a lot
of the music with Fred Durst, actually
lived in Detroit for a while in downtown
Detroit. and I attended a party and he
was there and so I was fortunate enough
to talk to him for a while and uh cool
down to earth guy and I normally don't
you know I've been around a lot of
professional athletes uh my time with
Dan and I don't normally uh like become
a fan around them right because you want
to respect their space and stuff and so
about halfway through the conversation I
had to look at him and be like hey man I
you know this might sound weird but I
was a big biscuit fan growing up and and
I listened to it before every hockey
game and just wanted to let you know
that and he actually was like super
appreciative about it. Thought that was great.
great.
>> That's cool. That is very cool.
Who is the biggest influence in your
life or what?
>> Ooh. Well, I have to say I have to say
first and foremost it it is my family
because we are um I I have so my wife, I
have an 11-year-old, I have a
six-year-old. Everything is about those
two kids. Uh whether it be activities,
sports. I, you know, my wife and I both
coach baseball. I coach basketball. I
coach flag football. So, our our life
very much revolves around them.
Obviously, there's probably some
external things that are influential in
my life, but realistically and and I
even tell folks at Detroit Labs, like
family is priority and and I I if I'm in
the office, I'm leaving at 4:45. No
matter what, I'm getting home, I got a
coach, I'll I'll I'll be back on later
after they go to bed. So, that's always
my priority. And I encourage folks at
Detroit Labs, do the same. And and don't
miss your kids' lives.
It's so funny whether it's it's the time
in the military or the time working with
startups or even my own business. I have
found that get that break in the
afternoon, spend the time with the
people you care about, get to those
dinners and then hit it later if you've
still got stuff to do. And and it works
it works so much better than trying to
wedge everything into 8 to 5 or 9 to5 or wedging
wedging
24 hours worth of work into 8 hours.
Well, and it's interesting, too, because
you may not even realize how impactful
it was for for your family and your kids
to be around during that time until they
get older. And then, hey, I I see a lot
of people that miss that. And and I I
understand it, too, right? Everyone's
situation is certainly different, but I
I encourage everyone to be as involved
as they possibly can cuz those kids grow
up fast, and you're going to look back
and regret it.
>> Absolutely. No one uh no one ever on
their deathbed said, "I wish I spent
more time at work."
>> Right. 100% true.
>> What is a book everyone should read? >> Oh,
>> Oh,
all right. So, this is probably going to
expose me as not a great reader. Um, but
that is probably one of the challenges.
I one of my weaknesses, I should say, I
really, this will be cliche. I really
loved the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isacson.
Isacson.
I thought it was fascinating. He's a
fascinating individual. I thought it was
interesting to see like how he motivated
people. Not always in the most positive
way. Um that's the first time I read
about the reality distortion field which
is how he motivated a lot of folks over
at Apple. I you know pros and cons to
that certainly and I think the
relationship with folks at Apple were
weren't great but he also drove
innovation and uh I mean so you know,
the output ended up being ideal, I
suppose. So, I I think that's a good
that's a really good book. Um, I I just
started reading the history of the CIA.
Um, I'm only like one chapter in, but
uh, Legacy of Ashes, I think it's
called, so I'll let you know how that
one turns out. But Walter Isacson, um,
Steve Jobs biography was really
interesting. I'm I'm like I said, I have
a history degree, so I don't do well
with fiction. I like non-fiction. I love
historical uh I can maybe do some was it
uh historical fiction, you know, I think
I don't know if you've ever watched uh
was it Mankind on Apple TV Plus? It's
historical fiction about uh historical
fiction about the space race. That's
interesting. But yeah, I digress.
>> You know, I haven't seen that. Um I'm
currently not subscribing to Apple TV
Plus, but I know I'll be getting a new
phone or iPad in the next few months,
and they'll probably give me a free year
of it or free three months of it. So,
I'll add that to my list of things I'm
going to cram into my watching during my
free trial.
>> It is worth it.
>> What is your favorite fall recreational
activity in Detroit? Oo,
Oo, probably
probably
it's probably going to a Lions game. Uh
we I think it was last year we took uh
our oldest to a game. Ford Field's
phenomenal. It It's really good. It's
built to handle a lot of people. Like I
mean, you've probably been to stadiums
where it feels like this wasn't really
built to handle all these people and
it's it's like really uncomfortable. Uh
Ford Field was built to handle all those
people. So, the concourses are massive.
Um the beers are huge, so you don't have
to constantly get up. Uh which is really
great. They've got a lot of self-service
stations. And we had um my son brought a
friend with them too and they just had a
blast. Like an absolute blast. And so um
between going to a Lion's game and then
hosting Lions game parties at our house,
we tend to host folks for any of the
games that we're not at. It's one of our
favorite things. Kids love it. All their
friends come over. We have probably
eight, nine kids here, four to six
families here at any given time. If it's
nice, we'll watch it outside. If not, we
>> That's great. It It sounds like a lot
when I was a kid. This It feels a little
bit like a time gone by where people go
over to somebody's house and and watch a
game and all the kids come and and that
kind of thing. We we have a really
really good community here and we kind
of live in somewhat of an old school
community where all of our kids jump on
their bikes and ride around everywhere.
They all meet each other up then they go
to we're right by the high school that
has really great turf baseball fields so
they can't ruin them if they go out on
them. They all play baseball. So, they
grab their whiffle balls, their whiffle
bats, they go over there and they play
they organize themselves via their Apple
watches and it's it's kind of old school
and it's really neat. I love it. For all
you young folks watching who believes
that Stranger Things is not a real thing
and those kids would be gone from 6:00
a.m. to to 11:00 p.m. at night without
any intervention by parents, it's 100%
real. That's how we grew up. Oh, I mean
my my youngest, my six-year-old went up
to the high school. I didn't know about
this till a little bit later. He went
with the older kids, but he was up
there, no shirt on, no shoes on, and
rode his scooter up to the high school.
And I had to eventually have a
conversation with my oldest and was
like, "All right, you need to let us
know when he's with you, and you need to
encourage him to put shoes and his shirt
on. He can't just be roaming around the
neighborhood in just shorts on the
scooter." So, um, but you know, the the
beautiful thing is they all have Apple
Watches now, so we can see where they're
at and and you know, as long as they
answer, that gives them freedom.
>> Sounds fantastic. What is your dream
vacation spot?
>> Oh, not a huge vacation person, but I
think it's probably Hawaii.
We we we've been on some pretty good
ones. We were in the Dominican Republic
this past year and my wife and I went to
Greece for our honeymoon. So, there's a
few places in Europe I think we'd like
to go, but I would have to say Hawaii
cuz kids keep asking about that as well.
So, I think the whole family.
>> All right, sounds fantastic. What is a
trend you're excited about?
>> Oo, okay. This is going to sound cheesy,
but maybe not. Um, for fashion, I happen
to like apparel design kind of goes with
sneakers and stuff like that. We're
going back to looser fitting clothing
and that is what has hit the runways the
last I don't know 3 years, four years,
maybe even longer. And uh, that is kind
of calling back to some of the the
fashion of the '9s where it was a little
bit baggier, a little bit looser. So,
I'm I'm selfishly looking forward to
that. And uh again, weird answer
probably, but I I I'm very much enjoying
instead of the skinny jeans that I can
wear a looser jean and still look fashionable.
fashionable.
>> Yeah, not a weird answer, but I will say
it's probably the first fashion answer
we've ever gotten. And I'm going to say
I'm here for it. I like that the clothes
are getting baggier. I'm kind of hoping
we get to some, if that's really true,
some brighter color stuff like we had
back in the late 80s and early 90s. Oh,
I think I think it's coming. There's a
little bit more neon coming around and
uh uh yeah, I think we're getting there.
I think it'll be very focused on that
like late grunge era uh design and the
of the '9s kind of moving into the
2000s. But, you know, this is what I'm
seeing so far stuff too, which is kind
of interesting.
>> Yep. Trust me, you young kids who don't
believe me about the Stranger Things and
the riding your bikes all day long,
you're you're going to love it. You're
going to love the '90s culture. for the
'90s fashion.
>> It's nice. It's comfortable.
>> Uh I think we already covered this, but
uh favorite sports team or player.
>> Oh, okay. Um
I'm Detroit, so I've got Tigers, Lions,
Red Wings.
In in basketball, it's actually the
Cavs, not not the Pistons as much.
Pistons are secondary because, you know,
I worked for the Cavs, so my loyalty
went there. I think right now at least today
today it's
it's
I have to do a tie. So it is Lions and
Tigers right now because it's Lions and
Tiger seasons. On the Tigers it's Tar
Scooble. Um incredible pitcher,
completely dominant. We win games just
because he's on the mound. Um on the
I think the easy one's Jared Goff, but
I'm going to go with probably Aman Ross
St. around. Uh he just transforms games.
He's able to he's a receiver for the
Lions. He's our best receiver, and he he
he absolutely transforms games. So, I
know I'm only supposed to give you one
answer, but we're in the middle of both
baseball and football seasons.
>> It's a it's a hard season. It's a
October's hard, right? Because if if all
goes well, our baseball teams are in the
playoffs, football's in full swing, and
hockey starts in like a week, right? So
>> yeah, we we've been fortunate enough the
last two years to have a baseball team
in the playoffs and uh hopefully that we
barely made it in this year after a
really cold end of the season. So
hopefully uh hopefully we're turning
that around.
>> Yeah, it's always same thing with the
Socks. It's always a nailbiter right up
to the last day of the season and and
then every post game is a is a
nailbiter. But I I hope we get to see
that Detroit Red Sox matchup coming up
here in a few weeks. So
>> that'd be fantastic. Especially because
uh you all out bid for Alex uh uh Bregman
Bregman
uh your third baseman. So he was
supposed to come to Detroit. So
hopefully we get an opportunity to to to
beat you all and then remind Alex of why
he should have came to Detroit.
>> Well, we'll uh we'll settle it on the
field. That's how we do things.
>> All right. Thanks for playing our game.
It was nice to get to know you a little
bit where the business questions might
not get us there.
to get back to it. What led you to
becoming an entrepreneur and what was
different becoming an entrepreneur from
working at Rocket?
>> Yeah. You know, I've been asked that
question a fair amount and and I I think
I think I was just naive, right? Like I
know I know that ultimately I'm kind of
not a great employee and even my other
co-founders are the same way. We're not
really great employees. We have a lot of opinions.
opinions.
uh sometimes that can come across not
great. So we knew that all right if
we're not great employees well then we
probably need to create an environment
where we can flourish um and and maybe
we can create an environment with where
others like us can flourish as well. So
you know that was certainly something
that was in the back of my mind. And
then when it came to actually starting a
company like I said I was incredibly
naive. I was just like oh this looks
like an interesting thing to do. This
looks like fun. this looks like, you
know, maybe like I that my challenges of
being an employee wouldn't be there. Um,
but I will say
the naive naivveness, naivity, I don't
know the way to say it, but being naive,
I should do that. That really helped me
to take the plunge and that certainly
helped me early on to just kind of
ignore some of those risks. But I think
where you do feel different than when
you when you're when you're employed. So
when I was at Rocket is you have responsibility
responsibility
to produce for your team members, your
employees. So now I'm not, you know, I
was responsible for myself and my
performance when I was at Rocket,
certainly to support others, but now I'm
responsible for everyone's paycheck in a
lot of ways. Uh you know, they just left
their jobs. they joined us. I I have,
you know, I have a responsibility to
make sure that the business does well so
that they made a good decision. They
took a risk. I want to make sure that
risk is rewarded. So, I think that's
where it's different. You know, instead
of just being focused on yourself and
your performance, you have that plus
making sure that you're doing right by
your team members, your employees that
join your your startup.
>> You've done some pitching to investors.
you've seen uh founders pitch to
investors. What advice do you have for
first-time founders who are starting to
pitch investors or are even just
thinking about raising money?
>> Yeah, I I think there's probably a
couple different uh um different points
of feedback. I think from the from the
idea side, your business side, please
please please make sure that you're
communicating what the actual
addressable market is. I I've seen a lot
of different pitches where they're just
ideas, but those ideas like, you know,
you sit there and wonder, okay, are
people actually going to buy that? Like,
do you are you solving a problem for
folks, right? Like human beings buy
based on pain. They have pain as as you
know, either big or minimal as it is and
you know, frustration like they they
they buy something to take that away.
And if you aren't being able to like
illustrate what that actual pain is,
maybe you don't have a business, right?
Maybe you just have a a feature for
something that exists or an add-on for a
product that's already in the market.
Well, you can't grow a business around
that. I think that's that's that's first
and foremost. And the big honestly, one
of the biggest challenges that I I see,
you know, I I work with Central Michigan
University um in their entrepreneurship
program. I get to see a lot of pitches
by students that come in and that's one
of the first things I say is will people
back to buy this? Like who who's your
market? Why like why are you selling
this? So that's one. The other one is
that a lot of good investors are looking
for good founders, good operators. So
they're looking at your idea, sure, but
really they're also assessing you as an
individual because a lot of ideas pivot.
uh a lot of ideas just go away and and
they want to know that they're putting
their money in the hands of someone that
can excel when that does happen. They
they're very much investing in in
founders sometimes more than they're
investing in the actual idea. So those
are kind of the two things that people
>> Yeah. It's it's so it's so interesting that
that
that we all get wrapped up in our idea
as entrepreneurs, the the the thing that
we want, right? And when you go when you
get to the point where you're pitching
investors, it really comes down to
what's the market, how is it going to
make me and as investor money, and then
do I believe you can pull it off? and
and there's a lot of detail and a lot of
analysis you can do to answer those
three questions for investors, but you'd
be surprised how many pitches I see that
don't answer any of those questions.
Yeah, it's it's I assume it will be used
because I want it and my two friends
want it. And it's like, okay, that and
that may be true, but do the other
100,000 people that you need to buy this
product actually want it? And you need
to do some research and figure that out.
And by the way, we have AI to help with
that. So if you didn't use that to do
some of your research, now the investors
are probably questioning you as a
founder. So now it's kind of like a
double whammy.
We always talk about here in Las Vegas,
I'm sure you've heard the same advice,
go ask a hundred people if it's
something they want or something they
could use or if they have that painoint
and then just take all the feedback and
if it's something that'll that that will
work for somebody. Chances are out of a
hundred, four or five of them will say,
"How do I buy it right now?" And we we
always encourage founders here because
in Las Vegas, we have this thing called
the Las Vegas strip and downtown Las
Vegas where you could talk to a hundred
people in a couple of hours and it would
be a complete cross-section of America
and the world and you could really get
an idea of what your potential here is
the idea by just spending a couple of
hours out of the street with a clipboard.
clipboard.
>> Yeah, that's a good point. Being able to
have that right there is is huge.
All right. So, being a founder in tech,
what emerging technologies are you
excited about? And also, what
technologies do you find yourself using
every day?
So, I'm going to do the I'm going to do
the cliche answer because I've been
using it so much lately. Um, I've been
using AI for rapid prototyping and and
historically I've used AI for for
research on on potential sales targets,
right? So, if if a a company either
reaches it out to us or we're thinking
about trying to do some outreach to an,
you know, individual company, I do um
research on that specific company to try
to figure out like who they are, what
what their revenue looks like and maybe
some of their challenges. So, AI has
been very helpful from that standpoint.
It's it's able to digest earnings calls
and market segments and market
challenges and trends and like way
better than I can. So, from a research
standpoint, AI has been I mean just
amazing. But, uh recently though, we've
been we've been trying to prototype a
few different
ideas where we're wondering is it
possible? Is it possible to do
something? and uh to be able to have
AI somewhat answer that but then also
build a little React web app for me to
test all these things out in real time is
is
it's really powerful stuff and so it is
that that's one of the things I think
I'm super super excited about is is the prototyping.
prototyping.
>> Yeah, I think that's exciting too and
I'm I'm really curious from your
perspective because you're doing rapid
prototyping with it. doing some coding
and that kind of stuff and we're all
hearing that like AI is going to take
all the software engineers jobs. I'm
curious from your perspective
what what is the AI great at in doing
this rapid prototyping and then where do
you feel like you need intervention from
an engineer or a human to really
complete the project?
>> Yeah, great question. So, in this
instance, AI was really great at writing
um so it's a React website. So, it it
wrote me a little quick uh website that
allowed me to rapid prototype what I was
trying to do just with a couple clicks.
So, it made it more accessible to me to
use that.
That doesn't mean that that snippet of
code is ready to go into a production
app, ready to go into a production
website. So I don't think AI is going to
necessarily replace software engineers,
replace developers. I think developers
and engineers that learn how to best use
AI will be just the ones that do amazing
that that excel. I I I
kind of liken it a little bit to, you
know, when I was in college, those that
really learned how to use Google
properly were those that excel. And and
I I think it's somewhat similar. And I
don't want to try to say that Google's
as powerful as AI is. Certainly that's,
you know, different scales here, but
really I think it's going to be can you
use AI to do some of the repeatable
mundane tasks? Can you use AI to QA some
of the code before you, you know, commit
it to the the main branch? Can you use
AI to test something or if you get
stuck, ask it a question, give have it
give you a suggestion? I think those
that can figure out how to do that are
those that are going to be successful.
And like I said, I don't necessarily
think, who knows, maybe I'll be wrong,
but I don't necessarily think that it's
going to replace. It's just going to
make engineers better who are willing to
use it. Yeah, I think that's a I I
agree. But I wanted to get your
perspective as someone who's doing it
and I hope that gives some hope to
people who are interested in being
software engineers or are currently
software engineers that you're going to
be needed just in a different way coming
up in the future.
>> You know, one person told me,
I don't know if this will come come to
fruition. They were talking to a bunch
of senior developers and the senior
developers were excited about AI because
they felt like all of the new junior
developers would come in and only know
how to code with AI. So, they wouldn't
actually understand what's going on
under the hood and if something didn't
turn out correctly or it wasn't right or
there was a bug somewhere that AI
couldn't figure out, well, you'd bring
these senior developers in and so then
their pay goes right way through the
roof. So, I was like, that's an
interesting perspective because they
talked about, you know, entry-level uh
folks in software engineering, they're
just going to use AI to teach them
everything or become a a crutch, if you
will, and and maybe they don't they
don't learn all the ins and outs. It was
just a it was an interesting anecdote
that I I it was the first time I had
heard that.
>> It's a it's going to be interesting to
watch. I will say, don't count out those
young people coming in. if they start
figuring out that there's opportunity
for them, if they can solve their boss's
problem before before their boss knows
it's a problem, they're probably just
going to go ahead and start doing that.
>> Oh, let me tell you, as as a business
that has billable individuals to clients,
clients,
more the the more entry level folks that
operate at a very high level that we can
have that stay with the organization,
the better our organization is.
I'm looking forward to
>> tail as old as time. As long as long as
there's been uh commerce and capitalism,
that's been a rule.
>> So, you talked earlier about you brought
some sales people onto your team. You
bring people on your team occasionally.
You let people go from your team
occasionally. When you're looking to
bring on a leader on your team, what do
you look for? Whether it's someone from
the outside or someone you're elevating
from within, what are the qualities you
look for to someone you're going to
bring on as a leader?
>> Um, it's a great question. I think I
think the first thing this might sound
obvious but a true understanding of our
business. I think that's really
important. We we are we're services
business and I always like to say that
you know we sell hopes and dreams that
sometimes are
a little more money than you think they
should be. And so it's a complicated
world uh complicated cell for us and it
really takes a certain individual that
can a move through that sales cycle,
stay positive, stay focused. It takes a
certain individual on the delivery side,
engineers and design that can work with
a level of ambiguity and turn that into
a great product and solve that solution.
So, I I I think first and foremost when
it comes to bringing on a leader, it's
it's the ability to understand what
they're walking into, the ability to
function autonomously, the ability to
deal with ambiguity, and understand that
not everything is is laid out for you in
front of you. And and some of it's going
to be learn as you go. Some of it's
going to be implementing your own
policies as well. So, you know, that's
that's a big piece of what we look for.
>> I love it. Curiosity, initiative,
accountability, and strategic thinking.
>> I've said it before. I hope they'll
believe you because they don't believe
me. If you're a young emerging leader,
curiosity, initiative, accountability,
and strategic thinking. If you develop
that, you're going to be on the path upwards.
upwards. >> Agree.
>> Agree.
What's coming up for you in Detroit Labs
in the next few months?
>> Great question. Um we are kicking off
three projects right now and that is
very exciting. Um two that are quite uh
sizable uh projects and one while
smaller has a lot of different and
interesting uh technology challenges and
components to it that I'm really looking
forward to. So uh we are we are at a
stage right now where you know we're
we're approaching capacity what I would
say you know everyone's on a project
right now. really really great place to
be. And uh and kicking off three
projects in the span of just a couple
weeks brings its own challenges but then
also brings a lot of um excitement,
enthusiasm, a lot of uh um a lot of
positivity amongst amongst the company
certainly amongst the leaders but also
amongst the company as well. And so that
is the biggest thing that we have going on because these projects will probably
on because these projects will probably take us out till you know at least the
take us out till you know at least the end of the first quarter next year. So,
end of the first quarter next year. So, it's exciting.
it's exciting. >> Uh, that is exciting. And it sounds
>> Uh, that is exciting. And it sounds sounds like uh if people pay attention
sounds like uh if people pay attention to what's going on at Detroit Labs, um,
to what's going on at Detroit Labs, um, with all the exciting things you have
with all the exciting things you have going on, they might you might need some
going on, they might you might need some people and they should, uh, they should
people and they should, uh, they should be paying attention in case there's an
be paying attention in case there's an opportunity for them.
opportunity for them. >> We're not we're probably not too far
>> We're not we're probably not too far away from um, starting the the hiring
away from um, starting the the hiring processes backed up. We'll see, though.
processes backed up. We'll see, though. >> All right. Well, get following Detroit
>> All right. Well, get following Detroit Labs and Dan and uh, pay attention if
Labs and Dan and uh, pay attention if you're looking for new opportunities. So
you're looking for new opportunities. So for everyone watching or listening right
for everyone watching or listening right now, what's something new founders can
now, what's something new founders can start doing today to get their startup
start doing today to get their startup on an upward trajectory?
on an upward trajectory? That's a great question.
That's a great question. I would say
I would say I would say really understand
I would say really understand your market, understand the position
your market, understand the position that you are in in your market
that you are in in your market and and really appreciate how much you
and and really appreciate how much you need to be selling. I think that that is
need to be selling. I think that that is something that h I think something that
something that h I think something that happens all the time is there's a lot of
happens all the time is there's a lot of founders that assume they build a really
founders that assume they build a really great product and people are just going
great product and people are just going to flock and use this great product
to flock and use this great product because it provides so much value and
because it provides so much value and and they forget that key component that
and they forget that key component that you need to be out telling everybody
you need to be out telling everybody about the value. You need to be out
about the value. You need to be out screaming about the value. And I think
screaming about the value. And I think if you really want your organization or
if you really want your organization or your product to grow, you do need to
your product to grow, you do need to focus in on the sales components, the
focus in on the sales components, the sales organization within your group.
sales organization within your group. It's a it's a piece that I would say we
It's a it's a piece that I would say we ignored probably for too long. Uh we we
ignored probably for too long. Uh we we really relied on word of mouth for way
really relied on word of mouth for way too long and uh and we've transitioned
too long and uh and we've transitioned that over the last couple years. You
that over the last couple years. You know, some some ups, some downs when it
know, some some ups, some downs when it when it comes to that. But just
when it comes to that. But just remember,
remember, you only stay in business if someone
you only stay in business if someone wants to buy your product. If someone
wants to buy your product. If someone wants to buy your service, whatever you
wants to buy your service, whatever you offer, you are only in business if
offer, you are only in business if someone wants to buy that. So, someone
someone wants to buy that. So, someone needs to sell that to them. And I often
needs to sell that to them. And I often think that that is overlooked.
think that that is overlooked. That is fantastic advice. And I know how
That is fantastic advice. And I know how easy it is as an entrepreneur to get
easy it is as an entrepreneur to get caught up in the day-to-day of what
caught up in the day-to-day of what we're doing and forget that that big
we're doing and forget that that big picture of we got to bring the revenue
picture of we got to bring the revenue in. Dan, this has been a great time. I'm
in. Dan, this has been a great time. I'm going to be following Detroit, the
going to be following Detroit, the Tigers, much more closely over the next
Tigers, much more closely over the next couple of days. Uh, I want to thank you
couple of days. Uh, I want to thank you for joining us today. Where can everyone
for joining us today. Where can everyone find you and Detroit Labs so that they
find you and Detroit Labs so that they can thank you for joining us today?
can thank you for joining us today? >> Yeah. Um, great question actually. Uh,
>> Yeah. Um, great question actually. Uh, so detroitlabs.com is is obviously our
so detroitlabs.com is is obviously our our main uh website. I'm not super
our main uh website. I'm not super active on social for a number of
active on social for a number of reasons. Um, but I am on LinkedIn, so
reasons. Um, but I am on LinkedIn, so you can you can find me on there. Um, I
you can you can find me on there. Um, I don't know the URL off the top of my
don't know the URL off the top of my head, but certainly if you do look my
head, but certainly if you do look my name up, uh, I will pop up right away.
name up, uh, I will pop up right away. And, uh, I I kind of I stay off a lot of
And, uh, I I kind of I stay off a lot of the other social platforms. Sometimes
the other social platforms. Sometimes just I'm on Instagram just to see what's
just I'm on Instagram just to see what's doing, but I don't post a lot for
doing, but I don't post a lot for whatever reason, but you can certainly
whatever reason, but you can certainly find me on LinkedIn. All right. Well, we
find me on LinkedIn. All right. Well, we will link that all up so nobody has to
will link that all up so nobody has to try to go find that on their own. Thanks
try to go find that on their own. Thanks again, Dan, for joining us today. I want
again, Dan, for joining us today. I want to thank all of you for watching and
to thank all of you for watching and listening, however you're getting this
listening, however you're getting this podcast. If you found this conversation
podcast. If you found this conversation valuable, go ahead and share it with
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can get more of these great interviews with people like Dan out to a bigger
with people like Dan out to a bigger audience. We have a lot more coming your
audience. We have a lot more coming your way in the next in the next few weeks.
way in the next in the next few weeks. We're going to keep doing this as long
We're going to keep doing this as long as you're all willing to listen. So go
as you're all willing to listen. So go out there, do great things today, onward
out there, do great things today, onward and upward.
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