YouTube Transcript:
Bertha Henson on GE2025_ Middle Fingers & the State of Opposition Politics | #YLB 635

is a bit like the reverse of the
presidency You know you want to stand
for president you must take off at Sal I
am
nonpartisan And then this one is oh I
better get out of parliament because I
am going to be partisan I'm like okay P
you know you don't want to paralyze the
government But you also don't want one
group of people able to push through
everything I'm sure people will be very
unhappy with me but I will say this I
think the mosquito party should all just
go away you know I mean some of them are
it is already the case in the past few
elections that you are not gaining
traction you know so what are you trying
to do so if you're into this podcast
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And believe me it hits different Just
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His words she loved it Said it was the
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Now on to the podcast
What's up everybody welcome to another
episode of Yala
your thrice weekly podcast where we talk
about the hottest news with a touch of
what Terrence good old humor Good old
humor man Yes Going to be talking about
a lot of things in the news today
Correct But with a special guest Yeah
someone who's I mean she actually is
like sometimes the the center of these
news topics surprisingly like it just
she just pulls these things out of her
head that we never knew existed and then
it becomes a huge story for everyone
Yeah A story which we covered a lot Um
so so I mean it's great to have for the
second time back on Yalabad Uh Bertha
Hansen welcome back Thank you Thank you
But now must be the season that you're
like you wake up every morning and you
you can't wait to get out of bed right
because not until like so much going on
season I'm saying like your it's in your
blood to one very exercised by it Yes
Yeah Yeah Yeah But what's what
difference is it from like normal you
know normal periods without elections
Peace time Peace time Peace timer
No Well basically I mean I've always
observed and covered politics such so
much you know and I was just telling
Harish that there's so much I want to
say about it because I've covered it for
so long So there's so much I know Yeah
And when people say things and they
don't remember this and don't remember
that I get so you know I must tell you
how this happened or you know this thing
has happened and you don't remember and
all that sort of things So it gets very
irritating for me sometimes reading
about political news and the GE reports
like for example whenever I read the
constituency reports you know the EBRC
reports No the you know what's happening
in
SA you know now it's very vogue right
you know the the mainstream media is
doing I get so irritated oh really why
because in the past we didn't do it like
that because you know I mean we had a
lot more facts like I mean it's not just
tell you number of blocks not just that
number of voters tells you things like
you know how long the meet the people
session how many people go there you
know what the residents bring up we look
at town council reports reports what the
town council reports say how much do
they charge SEC you know we we had this
kind of more data polit political data
and then we make sure we chat corner
whoever it is down there So it's not
just a swift 20man interview with men in
the street and then we pull out
everything that's been written on the
internet and then we patch it together
with a few quotes Oh come on It can't be
it can't be like that You really need
ground reporting and right now this
reliance on internet by the way in my
time I got no internet
hope you need to go and jal do they go
on the ground to these NPS sessions to
actually I have no idea I don't know and
no and no chat GBT also so you can't
like just ask oh my god yeah I remember
go down go back a few times to a certain
place because I didn't get the property
prices increase in property prices oh my
god it was really supposed to be so deep
yeah And you know what's the problem we
didn't even get to run it because
elections were called So in those days
when it was swift you really are a lot
of things you can't can't report cuz the
rate of election is out and then you are
busy the new cycle gets to you Yeah
Now uh uh could be based on articles you
actually wrote in in previous times you
know which people might not be aware of
Oh yeah yeah yeah I mean there was this
crazy one when I think uh Hazel Hua you
know the PSP was doing the election
boundaries and they were they had a
motion in parliament to discuss that and
I remember after that the question about
whether there's gerrymandering whether
anything is politically motivated right
and then somebody I saw online said that
uh yeah yeah of course it is you know
you don't remember uh go chukong carved
out McFersonen for Junan and then you
know the other side there no such thing
Why your sources they said "Oh Wikipedia
You trust Wikipedia I'm looking at it
all." I get so fed up So I just
responded and I said "Yes it's true."
Then someone said "Who's your source?" I
said "The source is
me." And then of course all got a bit
flabbergasted by it I said "Yeah I wrote
the damn story I reported it I
interviewed the prime minister then."
You know so it was like You know
sometimes you know you don't know things
and you can go into the past a bit and
you know dig some things out but then if
you don't know what you don't know how
you going to dig
You know you get what I mean so is that
a motivation that keeps you wanting to
be vocal about things like this because
you almost feel like um there is the the
knowledge of the past is kind of lost
Agree I think so Sometimes it's like why
are we so ignorant about some things
that have happened let me today you
should read the mothership article on
what's his name joshua right joshua Yeah
Yeah I'm supposed to be writing about it
this morning but I'm here with you
Fantastic I know I mean a lot has been
said about nominated MPs right i mean
when they first resigned the two of them
right but sorry just to clarify first
it's uh the the whole story is about
these uh two nominated uh MPs who now
have resigned from their post before the
end of their term Yes And there's
there's word on the ground that they
might be Oh no It's already out It's
already out that they're running It's
not out that they're running Ambiguous
That is the problem right so basically
it's like uh you know are you running
for PAP well it all depends I mean to me
it just shows you right It's so
politician like or partisan position It
depends on the prime minister and that's
what he's saying And it says don't get
fixated by Joshua Rush Yeah Yeah And I'm
like "Hey can you you know be a just say
yes or no?" But then you can't say yes
or no because you're now part of a party
Yeah So it just shows you right i mean
if he were an independent neutral person
probably can say yes or no But now
depends on but but what do you think of
the defense that he put out saying that
um it made sense for him to retire as an
NMP because he was no longer bipartisan
He felt himself Okay I tell you my my
take is a bit different Okay My take is
what is the PAP thinking
you know I mean I've been there since it
inception That's how DN
Yeah Way from the very beginning
you know I mean what is the PAP thinking
when he wanted to put it up the NMP uh
they they face objections from their own
MPs so much so that it wasn't even it
was supposed to be a tentative
institution you is something that every
parliament had to decide whether I want
an MPs in the house Then it became part
of the system Then it became part of the
constitution Yeah And then you expand
expand make it or sectoral
representation Right Uh and then you
gave powers that are almost as close as
an elected MP right over the years you
keep drumming this thing about
nonpartisan independent and then you
know put it in the constitution you know
the constitution on NMPs is actually a
lot more info then on your elected MPs
no the elected MPs one is in the
parliamentary elections act not in the
constitution
but in the constitution it says uh how
many NMPs I think nine and these are
their powers in the constitution mm Okay
So you go through all that trouble and
then this year you're going to say "Ah
welcome." Yeah You know you try to
convince people about the the
nonpartisan nature Welcome I'm so glad
you have seen the light and come to me
Yeah Yeah What are you doing you have un
you know you undid so many years trying
to convince people about this
institution Yeah And you throw it away
But you you mentioned that that is what
is the PP doing but what about the I
mean the individual himself choosing to
do that What if he's the conviction is
so strong that he feels like white I'm
like I I believe everything I hear It's
very simp
then you have an institution
All depends which one you think is more
important to you Yeah How would you want
to protect an institution that has been
developed over the years through much
trouble or do you think wow now I want
to go and serve And hello excuse me
you've been in an NMP for two terms No
could always quit in the after first
term Uh true but now you quit before
budget Yeah Hello the most important
debate in parliament and you quit before
it and you say "Oh I can't uh see how I
can know be nonpartisan." You suddenly
became partisan Yeah You know this
nonpartisan thing is really getting to
me I mean you know it's a bit like the
reverse of the presidency You know you
want to stand for president you must
take off I am
nonpartisan And then I mean
reverse Yeah Yeah And then this one is
oh I better get out of parliament
because I am going to be partisan
I'm like okay you know I know the
constitution doesn't say you need to be
sure uh you know you you you you have to
be nonpartisan It just says independent
Okay So we all know what that means But
but does does that mean that you're
giving more grief to the PAP side of
things or the individual NMP in in this
i don't know I just don't think I just
don't think you're doing any good
anywhere Yeah I mean it creates it's
almost a mockery of the the system when
it becomes feels like it's a stepping
stone to to I mean you know I I I don't
know I I
I just think the PP should just say can
you guess stay put even if you if you if
you end you know just stay put you know
Yeah But would you say anything
different if they were doing it to step
down and then run for opposition in
opposition party same thing So so I mean
you know now that we are in the leadup
to the next elections you also wrote a
book about the GE 2020 election So given
there was co but how what are the big
differences you see in this stage of
like leading up to the election oh I
think this is uh far more exciting I
mean that one was quite sudden I think
and there was
co you know can't go to rallies and you
go look you know and I think the PB
wasn't very prepared to be on social
media uh so they so that their their
their
campaigning wasn't very g I mean now you
see I'm I'm quite sure some of the the
you know stuff on Tik Tok and you know
Instagram they're all professionally
done m you know so you can see that
they're gearing up and so so that's good
I mean that that to me is pretty good Uh
and you know it looks like the forward
Singapore report will be his manifesto
Mhm You know whereas after co it seemed
like they just wanted to quickly take
advantage of co and just pop come out
with something but now it looks like
there's a gradual buildup So and of
course most interestingly is this is a
mandate for I mean for the prime
minister the 4G so it will be looked at
that way too Yeah And but what about uh
media coverage side of things do you
think feel the mainstream media has a
different role in this G compared to I
think they far more active or more
active more active Yes Yes Yes I mean
they're covering a lot more Uh but then
you see the politicians are also
speaking a lot more M yeah what I don't
like is how more the lack of ground
reporting you know as I mentioned
earlier you know I mean you if you just
report what every politician says what's
the point I mean you know you I can get
it on social media you know you want to
to do Facebook reporting I I mean what
what extra do you give me
you know so the value added must be
there you know what's the value added so
so even like uh would the recent EBRC
report be an example of where maybe the
media could have dissected it a bit more
as opposed to just talking about I tell
you this uh I have a regret uh you know
I mean I've covered plenty of EBRC
reports and I don't see some of the
things then that I didn't see some of
things then that I see now
maybe it's age we got wiser also because
I think I've got more
You know when you are a journalist you
just get caught up with the news cycle
another day another thing another thing
you just want get out so you really
don't look at it you know very closely
now you got time I can superimpose
polling this trick on top of polling
this trick I can you know do all sorts
of things and then I say ah like that so
you know it's u it's I wish I was a lot
more I mean more informed at that point
when I was doing the writing Okay Yeah
Well what was the what more have you
seen now that you have time to really
analyze it what is the the key points
that you notice well you know the key
point is how
much how much it is really the prime
minister's prerogative to to have to
hold the election draw the boundaries
put the people everywhere and all that
And it's a bit disconcerting You know I
was telling you just now how the NMP one
was enshrined but not really the elected
MPs right I mean I think I I don't know
whether I'm correct so I'm not
constitutional expert but I think yes we
have to call elections uh and the
constitution says something about GRC's
that there must be GRC's and what what
things are GRC's and then you got to go
to parliamentary elections act
and the thing about parliamentary
elections act which I found
So so strange is that you have a minimum
of eight SCMC's SMC's SMC's okay uh
minimum of eight and then okay so you
know there will always be SMC's right
and then you say that there must uh at
least one quarter of your seats or your
MPs must come from GRC's
so you have a minimum eight and at least
here you know that the variance is so
wide because you didn't put a numerical
figure to the number of seats anyway so
you have an eight here and a one quarter
there Yeah Yeah
You know so I I I I I it's so you really
you can actually do a lot in between I
can have eight SMC's and 100 GRC's One
GRC No one one huge GRC one you know So
so things like that Then for example
what is the MP to voter ratio one is to
28500
Yeah 28 who came out with that magic
figure you know i I don't know No I mean
so so basically when people say "Oh the
EBRC left to do it own thing and all
that but I don't even know the general
points you know like how many MPs how do
you come out with one MP to 28,000?"
What is the standard deviation by the
way the deviation is not in this GRC's
report Yeah Yeah But I calculated I
think it's about 20 over% Yeah So you
don't tell me that And then we cling to
this thing about population shifts right
oh we have to redraw because population
shift and estate Hey hello that's your
job How is that an explanation for how
you draw boundaries yeah You know so
it's like if it you you shouldn't you be
telling me some parameters like oh we
will always you know uh have a deviation
of how much we came out with 28,000 or
whatever because uh uh we tried not to
mess around with you know old boundaries
or whatever you know you need some
parameters so that people can have a
grip on it you know you know one thing
that we have never really found out and
nothing's been said You know GRC's right
is supposed to have Malay or Indian and
others and they are specific No the
constituencies this one must be M That
one must be whatever
You know specific it must be specific
Yes Okay You know we never told how that
came that comes about
You realize it You don't know You know I
didn't know it was meant to be specific
I thought there were you go to one they
will tell you this part is only for is
it I thought I thought there was there
was some requirement for Malay
representation Indian representation but
I didn't know it was at a constituency
level yes it is you can't anyhow put
Indian when there's supposed to be a
Malay there okay
yeah yeah okay so you see all these
things not explained right
we don't know I mean a big part of is
how close the EBRC report is released to
the election as well right that doesn't
give a lot of time for even when
journalists you know I think basically
that only comes out I don't know when
rate of election I think only when bit
rate of election comes out then they
tell you where oh okay okay okay this
one I'm afraid I'm not sure the EBRC
when it comes out no no the EPRC just
gives you the boundaries they tell you
which GRC but they don't tell you which
GRC needs a meal
they don't okay ah so the the so when it
does happen I'm not sure when that is I
think it is when the r of election comes
up because then the parties who want to
contest in GRC's also especially
opposition parties must guess You need
to hold your cards You need to guess
guess a bit But SMC you can I mean you
can declare that there's no problem
there But you know there was uh what you
heard some of the people from PB saying
that this EBRC report is more
transparent than ever You know we should
be grateful It is right It is there are
more explanations There are more words
there are more words Okay So the the
words uh distribution is uh uh
population shifts which I tell you I
don't need you to tell me that you have
to redraw based on population shifts
Yeah The second point is a prime
minister saying please keep it about the
same That is mainly the second point
Hello So you tell me is that an
explanation when I don't even know why
the PM wants to keep it about the same M
so you know and I was listen to Janu
Pucherry he says what's so inappropriate
we only we one SMC and we just did this
hello I mean EBRC isn't just a numbers
game of how many SMC's and GRC's is the
way you chop it yeah yeah yeah not just
the way you you know how many pieces you
divide it's how you chop up the pieces
as well
so so it's a lot of words and I suppose
we have to be grateful so s that there's
a few more words uh and know they tell
me this is ratio to this ratio and know
this or whatever
but no you're not going into the
underpinnings of this thing in the first
place I mean if the last EBRC
explain why the the why how we drew then
then maybe now I can say oh okay so they
want the same thing but
they didn't do that either do that
but if I mean we would love for it to be
super transparent and all the data and
information out there but what is the
most immediate thing that you would
change if you could more what what
detail would you want to see in the EBRC
report that you feel like isn't too
onirus too too difficult a change to
make or just something that you can see
in the EBRC report that would make it
okay first of all I want you to state
what is the deviation from the mean
because that was something you did and
now you don't the deviation of the
28,000 once 20,000 voters yeah I mean I
mean I mean come on you know SMC like
biggest 33,000 voters you know I think
the smallest is 20 something I just
imagine the poor bloody candidate
running like a headless chicken to get
33,000 waters and then the other fellow
having
lack of draw you know and then you know
and also
uh the fact is some constituents are
more compact than others so maybe not be
28,000 it could be
30,000 it's not as though you got to go
far far to go and get your constituent
you know so you could maybe handle more
more people or maybe you should handle
less but Somebody has to explain this
you know so you know you so I there's no
explanation for that uh for example if
you say keep to the average size of
GRC's is what prime minister said so it
be four and five members
hello uh so if he said something
else please introduce three member GRC's
you can also do that
so it really depends on what he wants
he never said increase the number of
single seat WS but going by the trend is
usual to give you one let's say watching
grass grow one one this time one more
yeah so so
basically I actually don't think that uh
it's a question of as you say what can
be immediately done with the EBRC okay
those little things deviation or that
you know can explain a bit but I happen
to think like Kevin Tan a constitutional
lawyer that we do need an elections
commission to redraw this whole thing
Yeah He mentioned that in LinkedIn post
right because this whole thing about
equal representation is very important
Yeah Yeah Equal representing because it
it it means a lot you know I mean for
example okay uh the courts have said it
they said that you know if some member
of a GRC quits Yeah the rest of them
take over But
SMC you must have a B like I I don't
know very weird also Yeah You know so
I'm like okay so you know shouldn't is
that equal representation i'm not sure
Correct Correct You know if you have
four fellas in parliament representing
you instead of five that is not equal
representation And then you require all
of them to vacate their seats so that
you can have an election I so you see so
some I some basic principles must be in
place for everything else to follow Uh
but so we're talking about the almost
like the process the transparency of the
EBRC report and all Um but in terms of
how parties should think about it right
I I've I've talked about this previously
where Harsh we were talking about EBRC
report I was like but if a you know
opposition party is worth its salt and
it's doing the leg work for 5 years
right it shouldn't come as a big
surprise that there will be changes
within the boundaries and if they have a
strategy of like working an area sort of
like uh you know rather than just like
okay I only carve out certain areas and
I hope that they hold it for the
election it I mean if they're worth
their salt they should have already seen
this coming right have you been able to
see some of the boundaries coming I
don't think so And in any case I mean
that might work for for opposition party
I mean parties who only want to contest
SMC's but quite a lot of them were
gunning for GRC's Yeah So you know so
it's not as though they're looking at a
small part of Singapore and then want to
cultivate it So you look at it the other
way around They have spent time
cultivating a bigger area and then
having a part of it sliced away M so you
know I I'm not sure how prepared people
can be for that now the only thing is
whether or not between when what is the
period between now EBRC report out and
the rate of election being issued so
this is the time right where you can go
and you know do what you need to do you
know those areas where you haven't
canvas or whatever you know you you have
to go and do that yeah yeah so so I I'm
not so sure what you're getting at
because uh you know I think if you ask
PAP MPs they themselves probably are not
too happy too ah you know I mean you
know suddenly you you know get pulled
out and all that hey you know this this
now it's the other side yeah thank god
middle finger show shown in the vicinity
oh my god you know this middle finger
thing the only only
reason is caught on right is because we
we don't see it but it does happen so
you know what's the problem I What
happens you mean people showing the
message of course not Slam the door on
your face tell you to please go away I
mean this happens during campaigning not
just now So you think we the message
should be this is part for the cause you
know Yes Exactly It's part for the cause
It's just that you got caught on camera
Yeah Correct It's part for the cause You
know I don't want to if I don't want to
open my door I don't open my door If I
tell you I'm not interested in talking
to you Yeah I tell you that So what's
what's the big deal i I really saw no
need for knowing multiple explanations
and I really saw no need I mean did you
expect that everybody will love you no
So what's the big deal So to to find
them getting all defensive to me is
likeh what the hell and I did see that
you know there was a PAP volunteer who
was also embraed
He said I was pointing to another table
You haven't done I really I really don't
think you know I mean what he should
have said is that I wasn't pointing at
you to put your camera down but he
didn't say that either Yeah Notice Oh
okay Okay Ah because the the impact was
you are telling the guy who's videoing
watching you right but you didn't say
that too in your defense You instead put
up another reason why you might be
pointing a finger Yeah So I don't know a
lot of finger pointing going on these
days middle fingers and all and index
finger and everything Yeah But um I mean
you know that the the way the coms are
being done cuz you know like that
there's in my mind I would be like okay
um there are many ways to to go through
any story you know um be it the
fingerpointing or be it some of the
other sagas Uh do you think that I mean
the PP is being a lot more savvy on
social media but when you see
politicians being too savvy on social
media does it how do you feel about that
h I tell you uh a long long time ago
when the internet came into being and
then uh the prime minister Menlong
started going on it Mhm FB I really did
not like it because I always would like
my leaders to have a little mystery
about them Oh really rather than be too
open and I know your every secret know
that kind of thing Yeah So now I mean I
guess I'm getting used to it but I also
think that I mean if you do an interview
and it's a podcast like this it's
perfectly fine I mean it's just an
interview but if you have something that
is done especially to show you off which
is a political advertisement right it's
a political advertisement then I don't
know I this is the part where you tell
me I don't want to be populist
but you are looking for the popular vote
right I mean you know so I mean you will
go on these things to reach
people popular vote isn't it yeah yeah
so I don't know I I have mixed feelings
but I do understand that young people
lap it up Yeah And I don't lap it up But
then how is that different from you
being on Facebook cuz I mean you are a
public figure right you I mean you you
have been had a public role for a long
time Couldn't the same be said about you
you know I prefer
Ber mysterious I don't need to but I
don't I'm not a politician I have no
figure I have nothing to gain and
nothing to lose
On Facebook it's not as though I mean
you want to follow me you follow you
don't follow done I mean it's not as
though you are going to vote for me
right I mean seriously I mean do
whatever you want and I will do whatever
I want I don't have uh I mean a
commitment to my voters or whatever no
so hello I'm afraid you can't quite
equate me that way
but but actually since the last time you
came on so right there have been a
couple of you know big things that have
big pieces of news One was obviously NRC
debacle but the other one also was uh
Pritam Singh's conviction right I mean
just just touching on the second one
first we'll go back to NRC in a bit I'm
sure but for Pittam Singh's side of
things what's your take on all that has
that damaged the workers party brand or
or has it turned people against you know
the the PAP or what what's your take on
that
you know I had expected the whole town
council saga to affect the workers party
brand that went on for two general
elections and more and it didn't did it
I think and that was something that is
very should be close to the hearts of
his voters because it is about their
funds you know so if nothing happened
there right and this is a case of she
lie I lie do you lie do you not lie
you really think that will have much
impact I doubt but I mean now with uh
over the past few years there has been a
lot more how you say presence of social
media you know snippets um and I think
people's opinions of people are being
formed more than ever by what they see
on social media so so I think what
happened with the town council thing
that almost felt like it was only in the
newspapers you know it never went into
social media okay uh so with Britam now
there's you know him walking to court
being charged um and you know waiting
for sentencing and all that feels a lot
more public now and you still don't
think there's any impact
Well if it does then I'm I don't know
I'll be a bit surprised or maybe even on
him as an individual because of town
council Exactly Yeah I mean basically I
think social media can make you very
popular or very unpopular Uh but whether
or not uh that should shift the way you
think about someone Yeah that's
something I don't know I mean I can also
say wow Pam he step up damn good caught
on social media immediately I can I can
say that too I can say that you know he
looks very down walking to the
courthouse and that these are
impressions and I suppose impressions
will count in a voters's mind
I hope not I hope that won't be the case
I mean definitely but in some ways
there's has kind of neuted any kind of
PR a lot of PR that he could have done
the last few months answer I think he
couldn't say uh he couldn't be as public
about a lot of things because he was
going through the court process and all
that right no Why he could have said
something Why maybe it's just sour
brings that we didn't get pretend on the
podcast by him I don't think there was
no any constraint at all Oh really i
mean don't talk about the case Yeah But
it doesn't mean that you can't talk
about something else Yeah I mean we did
see him from state from the state court
walk over to parliament join a
parliament session then
state very public So yeah I I I don't
Okay I don't think he'll have much of a
name I mean if anything I saw that
Minister of State Alvin Tan he he did a
he did a Liquanu tribute I didn't see it
I mean it was just yesterday or
something right and then he did some
kind of he
inserted video at the end when he was
talking about I just wish they just
leave the old man
alone
Seriously leave the old man alone Yo I
mean you are 4G four No Yeah But how
like if we the election is held every 5
years literally there'll be
that 30th anniversary of
the 5 years coincide with SG70 some then
you know our founders memorial when it
comes Oh my god I I don't know I've said
be before that you know you know I mean
the old man didn't like this in the
first movie you know and basically if
you want to learn from the old man go
and read about him and read what he says
uh but don't use him as a as a
bargaining chip for or against you know
now we're very used to pulling out his
code and say see what he says he also
said this he also said that oh my
goodness
I feel like I go to his the tree and
then plant some flowers there and and 4D
also come out What but but speaking of
see what he said right you know that he
had that famous quote about he will get
out of his grave Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah
This is it I mean there there are people
online who are saying that the state
Singapore is in now like he better get
up He better do you really feel like
we're at a stage where where we really
should be calling for Lee Kuanu to come
back from the grave or anything
i think what I would like to
see is something that Han Fukuang said
too in his recent
piece You know they must give me a new
vision a collective vision I can get
behind because right now your
vulnerability narrative is being
destroyed by your own bureaucratic way
of putting things across I mean global
uncertainties and political shifts and
all that God knows man I mean Lie Kuwan
you would have said it differently where
we say you don't buck up you die
so so I I I don't see and something
strong coming out from the 4G in fact
everything is so it's like so reassuring
we have your back we will walk with you
we won't leave you behind we will do
what we can I mean you know it's like
okay you know so you want more hard
truth I want more I want something
harder You know instead you're trying to
tell me it's okay But you think people
are ready to hear the the hard truth i
think frankly even if they're not ready
they should be hearing the hard truth
because right now I'm getting a very
soft music you know from them And I
don't think we should have that You know
I was reading uh yesterday you know like
the Dutch for example cut one public
holiday M we want to raise them Of
course I also say who doesn't want
public holidays but then the Dutch cut
it to raise output you know because they
have to think about defending themselves
you know Ukraine and all that sort of
things you know Yeah We don't think in
those terms do we yeah So you think we
are all still too much in a bubble we're
too much in a bubble and we're getting
very entitled You think you can run away
uh from not giving CDC vouchers next
time hello M uh and you think people
will be happy it's only $800 Yeah When
he started with what$100 $200 in $2
denominations
people will get used to it That is the
the thing that I worries me that's why I
said some hard truths that better be So
so you think generally the sentiment of
like maybe that that worry like what you
say you know not seeing a vision not
seeing a strong um leadership almost you
think it's more now than it was say in
2020 2020 well 2020 is co
ah I think which is also could have been
bleak a lot of bleak sentiments out
there and all yeah so but they handled
that okay I think everybody was going
through co you know I mean almost I mean
it's a it's a global phenomenon Right So
I think we handle that well But now
postco is even more low on you know so
that's where I think you need to come up
with your own idea so to speak you know
I mean you can't always tell me to be
nimble and agile and upgrade my skills
Yeah I I I don't I I I I can't They
don't have a a good story to tell about
why you need me But but but isn't this
line of like um you know hard truths
strong men politics isn't that what the
rest of the world is seeing more of with
you know in the US with Trump and and
even want that in Singapore really hey
hello Trumpian And we must still have a
bit of rule or law I mean that that
still must be it No I want to see them
do be harder and that is the ruling
party But you know I also wouldn't want
them to dominate all sectors of life
You know I mean you know the I I will
follow them if they can give me an idea
where we are going how we're doing it
instead of of of always being trying to
molly coddle me I don't want I don't
want that Maybe that's what other people
want I mean I can imagine like um
certain demographics preferring that but
um you know like this air of like
uncertainty I mean even we feel it right
looking at the the global things but is
it something that every generation faces
cuz you've been covering politics for
quite a while previous elections like in
the '9s in the 80s was there that same
element of like where is the world
heading you know or you think now is
more than ever now is more than ever I
mean I mean you I mean don't talk about
Indochina time that is quite whole
different ball game really but I mean
80s and 90s were very good for us was
great Yeah So know we were boom town
economic growth double digit and all
that you know so it was a comfortable
period Yeah So then doesn't doesn't give
that doesn't that justify the
uncertainty that even for the for the
leaders the ministers who say okay that
that lack of a concerted vision right it
is because it is more more uncertainty
now I'm sorry man I elected you to come
up with it you knowh you come up with it
it's not a question I I need to think
about your circumstances hello you're
the politician no you tell me
no I seriously this is how nice people
like your you know uh you know no
because we hear that um and I mean like
after you hear it many many many times
almost it's you're programmed to think
that way and I think it's like you know
whenever we keep hearing oh Singapore
especially in the media scene like you
know Singapore is a small country you
know if you want to make movies you have
to make it in mandrin because the
Singapore market is too small I hate
that kind of stuff but being in media
for so long yeah and there's there's
certain truth to it but also I think
that is not a good rhetoric to have
ingrained in us So politically I think
now we hearing it so many times Every
politician that goes on every podcast
they're saying the same thing It's
uncertain So it's almost I think people
are getting used to it that oh it's
uncertain That's why there's no
concerted vision But what you're saying
is that no like we need all the more we
need Yeah Yeah That's what I'm saying I
mean because things are uncertain we
need to be more certain You don't come
and tell me you're just riding the wave
of uncertainty along with me
It's a future compact you know Singapore
we all so we're all uncertain they elect
you for what
I mean know I mean so so you know that
sentiment like how much of it is kind of
like um impacted also by now I mean
let's go to the NRIC debacle you know
which was kind of I mean when we were
covering it it did feel like wow this is
this is a screw up um does that affect
this uh your perception that there's no
concerted vision like or is that you
think it's just a one-off A small part
of government that Well I thought it was
a one-off I mean I I thought it was a
glitch I tried my level best to get them
to fix the glitch Then I realized that
it was maybe not a glitch Oh my god You
know then you the only thing that made
me think is that my god you must be
quite out of touch Huh i mean if you
don't think this is a glitch and it is
actually something we wanted to do you
know just you morons didn't realize that
this is the way we should go you know I
mean out of touch and for people who
might still be unaware I I don't think
so but uh it was your Facebook post that
that kicked off everything Yeah So you
broke in some way you broke the news
Broke the news Yeah Yeah I guess I did
but actually I wrote it after I got so
angry with you know how how how the
feedback was being treated you know and
uh and
then to have it like you know I remember
the last line that was given to me uh in
the letter was the this case is now
closed I'm like I mean this is before
you know the whole thing came out in the
public eye you know we consider this
case close I'm like what the you know so
that's when I wrote it Yeah So you know
some people say why can't you be a good
citizen and don't say a word no because
this is I said I was being a good
citizen but apparently I'm wrong Yeah
Yeah But were you surprised by the
reaction which reaction as in how fast
it spread oh yeah I was so wow It was
mindboggling Totally I mean you know I
was distributing my book around that
period No where when fell What the
number of people who came up to say
thank you and thank you and thank I was
like my god I didn't realize he had so
much traction
Yeah People actually came to thank me
People came to talk to me about it They
were giving their views on what the
press conference said what the
government said I didn't realize it was
so big So so the press the there the
different parts to it There was the
press conference there was the
clarification in parliament via speeches
from the ministers like what I mean even
through that whole process I felt uh not
as consistent in terms of messaging that
I felt that they were doing But how do
you feel about watching the press
conference seeing essentially two
ministers uh and apologizing the three
sitting there and apologizing right and
and yeah I tell you right from the
beginning I knew it had to do with the
word mask
Right from the beginning what is masking
what is unmasking what is partially mask
oh my goodness You know you your
definition of terms already not not very
good In fact after that press conference
still not clear
you know I mean I see Injani Raja
stumbling over mass unmasked and
partially mass and no whatever okay you
know I what my
impression sorry what's your what's your
question uh what your what what do you
feel about the press conference and how
they handled the Well first of all their
first press statement was really crappy
the one where they say we were going to
do it anyway
That one really crappy People got really
angry with that The press conference
came I thought can be sooner but it came
at least Uh so at least I mean people
got a bit of p of flesh you know you
have ministers apologizing here that uh
and then
uh after that came parliament questions
and then the full report right Yeah My
point about the full report is more a
it's more political I mean sure it was a
bureaucratic mix up miss coms and all
that but to me the deeper point which
the report did not go into and maybe it
should not because it's a civil service
report is how the political messaging
was so bad That was to me the key thing
you know when you say political meaning
from the the office holders Yeah Yeah
was so bad Yeah You know and what was
what was bad about it from Well first of
all you don't tell citizens this
actually not so valuable h after years
of saying that it is And do you have any
idea how much pride people take in their
ping IC
you know I mean when you say are you a
Singapore I hold pink IC I hold red
passport That's true These are
identifiers you know M so please don't
uh cut out my perception of these
identifiers Now of course you can say
your IC is different from your number IC
number Hello you want to split hairs
about these things That's not how people
see it These are things that sacred to
me Yeah It was quite irritating also
when some people spoke to us They're
like telling us oh you know last time I
joined lucky draw I just throw my icy
into a bowl and everything That was like
that's last time you know But now like
you said pride like even uh when when
you go NS and all they ask you to shout
your N you know as a key identify who
you are before you like jump off a cliff
or absale down a cliff So it's a very
big part of your identity Yeah it's a
big deal you see So then of course if
you try to explain it in terms of
identification and authentication
you know I'm like oh dear you know you
cannot so so in your mind right because
to me um the more years the government
spends in you know comms and social
media feels like yes I know there's a
lot of new media but it feels like there
coms sometimes it's it's mindboggling
you know um and and why do you
that is happening like the I can tell
you the disconnect Yeah
I Yeah I tell
you Okay How to say this you know if
they say things like that the normal way
is for the media to enter the picture
and they say but don't you think what is
no and then you will start thinking
again Yeah from the politicians
perspective they will have to rethink
they will no I mean sometimes right you
say something and say are you sure is
this what uh so you're telling me this
right confirmh and then you start
thinking right uh and then you will
start modifying your your your statement
or whatever on the spot right
you don't uh give me a press release and
I just bloody run it right uh and if I
do ask you questions and then you may
say okay can you please at this point
okay I okay to answer this question you
know so there will be changes so
somebody is doing some filtering
uh so maybe people will say well
government screw up we should just show
it in all this screwed upness you know
but I don't I'm not social media is that
way that means you know you parrot
whatever is bad and you parrot whatever
you think is good you you need to have
some presence in it as well you know so
if you think that hey this is not on you
know uh what do you say to people who
will say this but if you say run it and
you run it and it's so screwed up and
that's what you get I mean in some way
what you're saying is like by pushing
back and challenging it results in a
better better coms yes it results in
better coms you know so like I like
sometimes I I ask yeah but you remember
this or not that time this is oh yeah
you know and then you know then the tone
will change you it's like a bit of
feedback mm M but okay if you want to
like okay you just tell me what you want
to say and I just run then you know
parrot law just basically take recorder
just put on and and that you think is
your job yeah I mean I guess not so sure
even between us if like I have an idea
for a video in my mind it might be great
but when I tell you you might say that's
badpect and it makes me rethink the
video idea which results in a better
video so you know so if the whole
government thinks one way but then the
whole government wants to
to somebody and there's some an
interface of some sort so somebody is
there to say oh maybe no
I mean it's just like one party
government right I mean you know now uh
free elections all that people are
saying will be freak election opposition
wipe out and all that uh two party
system or whatever it is you know I mean
I was reading on Kang right I mean I
lied the manuh he said about how pap you
You don't want to paralyze the
government Yeah You don't want the
government to be paralyzed So you know
okay So you think gridlock know like the
US and like gridlock of some sort US
through the previous administration So
so you know but the thing is you also
don't want you don't want paralysis but
you also don't want one group of people
able to push through everything you know
So it cannot be between paralysis and
between you know a go ahead everything
goes kind of thing you know So so he's
he's right to say there must be an
equilibrium
right I frankly think we need strong
government Yeah So what is the concept
of strong government I think a strong
government means that you remain
government with maybe 60 70% of the
votes Yeah Or 60 70% of the seats But I
would like uh you to have a s like us to
have a substantial opposition for checks
and balance because really you cannot
check and balance yourself If you check
and balance yourself uh you wouldn't
have come out with that stable on ISIS
Okay Yeah Somebody would have said uh
you sure we should put it this way Uh
somebody would have said something Yeah
So you know so I I think we need we need
some opposition to come out and saying
some things M so so I mean on that note
like what what do you think the
opposition needs to do uh at this point
to to be as successful as they can be
cuz you know I mean EBRC report the
electoral boundaries have been redrawn
there's already a lot for them to do but
in terms of storytelling coms presence
okay I tell you what I'm sure people
will be very unhappy with me but I will
say this yes I think the mosquito party
should all just go away mosquito party
the smaller one smaller the smaller
opposition you know I
Some of them I have interviewed in my
rookie days Okay You know how old that
is Okay So they grow old with me I
retire already I mean so no I mean I
mean you're basically muddying the whole
picture Uh if it's already the case in
the past few elections that you are not
gaining traction Yeah You know so what
are you trying to do m uh al so so leave
it to the bigger boys no or go and help
the bigger boys do something or whatever
or just stay out the fray or go be an
NMP
but you know like in the last election I
think Red Dot United was formed because
PSP it was from PSP Yeah Yeah Because
they wanted to contest in an SMC that
was going to go uncontested SMC or PSP
against Starman Yeah
In they formed three weeks before the
election It was a new party Yeah But now
now they're couple hundred couple
hundred volunteers and all that Yeah
Yeah They're still going So in that case
do you think that's a benefit that if
Tama was going to and his jersey were
going to run uncontested at least having
some opposition uh even if it's a new
party formed 3 weeks before the election
it's still better than so you want all
seats contested You saying that all
seats should be contested in some way
like what you're saying uh for the coms
or NRIC because there was no contest or
push back It went out very like I see I
see GC Yeah So would it would it force
GRC's to sharpen their otherwise it's
just a walkover it's a bit easier True
True I mean I I think there should be
contests everywhere because it will also
keep incumbents on their toes Yeah Right
But mosquitoes mosquitoes keep you on
your toes
But I tell you mosquitoes should get out
when there are bigger fish
I mean you know don't don't don't I mean
frankly speaking okay I you can stay on
It just makes it more exciting and
livelier But you know I'm I'm I think
you should consider what it means for
you Basically you're not going to get
very far But okay if you want to do this
public service for me go ahead I mean I
remember you talking about fight with
Tan right
I don't know whether you remember this
Sorry This oldtime there was one time
workers party sent the suicide squad to
Angokio GRC Yeah Uh hey they didn't do
badly you know I mean you know I think
they didn't lose the election deposit
They didn't Okay Yeah So sometimes you
want you have to get 20% Is it no Oh no
Less less Less less Yeah So you know so
they didn't do too badly you know and
people were quite surprised you know and
I mean that must have given the prime
minister a bit of a shock Daman was more
popular than him you know So okay I
think these things are all right And
then you you have a contest it keeps you
on your toes So yes good you contest
every GRC Uh but also think about
muddying the waters M So then what would
be like uh things the bigger parties can
do different from what the bigger
parties can do
You know actually I'm quite gratified
that the workers party the PSP and even
the STP even is not in not in parliament
They do have some policy ideas Of course
they always get shot
downh they seem to be making an effort
to think something true you know so that
is a damn good start of course you know
so in the past when the PB can say you
got no idea now they have to tell you
your ideas are bad you know but at least
for me the voter I can compare ideas
so it's still for me to to think through
so I'm very gratified whe they should do
more of that now whether or not this
works with the vote voter the ordinary
citizens I don't know uh so you know
maybe you know that one you give a goody
hand out be already can I don't know I
mean even when when let's say coms like
should they cuz right now the PP is
going they're sending a lot of
politicians out on media platforms and
all do you think opposition should also
take that approach as far as possible I
don't know I mean look at how loy came
in totally wow I mean I remember I was
in the newsroom and were like who the
hell is
Huh So but that also shows like they're
working the ground Go back Yeah But now
with a GRC a bit harder I guess And now
with Tik Tok and Instagram and the
expectation almost maybe people don't
want that mystery anymore They want to I
mean people like me are dying out So
okay But you look at even celebrity
culture right last time I remember
Michael Jackson was so popular but you
didn't know much about it Now Taylor
Swift right people know her relationship
her ex-boyfriend Exactly Do you want
that i don't want that But I think you
imagine we always say that the
politicians don't want to serve because
they like some privacy right they will
never get good people You want them to
go that way and you probably get nobody
Yeah I I don't like the idea also that
there's too much of celebrities or
politicians on social media But I think
from their defense of people that we
have spoken to and asked like "Oh why is
your Tik Tok account so big?" For them
it's getting a message across Yes of
course You get one message across one
two messages across and that's about it
Yeah I mean okay Okay The other thing is
you make yourself a bit more likable
right uh at least somebody I I like I
don't know Uh I judge them by what they
say in parliament sometimes The trouble
is not many people watch it I know I
read what they say and all that to see
and from that I can get a lot more
things than from a Tik Tok video Yeah
Yeah Do you get me first of all I know
whether they got brains So you think
there should be more public debates like
Oh I Yeah You know you know the problem
with Singapore is
this The only way you get any debate is
in parliament
you know and for debate outside
parliament is practically non-existent
And what you have are forums and
dialogues and closed door whatever
whatever you know thing kind of thing
You may call that debate but there's
really no real room for anyone to say
something that's absolutely different M
so you know so and you know I'm getting
tired of you know uh people saying that
oh we have to wait till parliament then
we find out we have to wait till
parliament it's like what is this yeah
even NRC saga right wait till parliament
find out I'm like huh everything we must
wait to is that the only place that
anybody can say anything do anything
then the rest of us just wait
parliamentary privilege allows them to
you know I don't care I okay fine I mean
there is parliamentary privilege But I'm
also thinking to myself first probably
not urgent
So you consider a lot of things not
urgent No need to explain Hopefully
you'll keep come carry on and everybody
forget cuz I've seen I mean I think a
lot of people have seen the clips of
even Vivian Balaka Krishna as a student
challenging Oh yeah A great debater my
time And those sort of forums those were
televised right yeah This was university
debates University debates I mean I'm
watching it I'm like "Oh [ __ ] that's
cool that there was a tough question
that was asked but that forum doesn't
exist anymore." Yeah we don't We don't I
So as I said we're all very nice people
No Or very Okay Singapore is too nice
Really yeah But I don't know I don't
know whether it's being too nice or just
wanting to be politically correct or
simply got no bloody guts No more hard
truth So we need No no guts Got no guts
No guts We don't want to rock the boat
Yeah But but so that's it about the NIC
thing Do you think that that issue will
figure in this election like will it be
brought up as a as a big really that
means you you started the ball rolling
Please please I should
I no I the only takeaway I have from
that and I don't know how much you will
figure in people's minds during election
is the out of touch thing Okay like you
know I okay maybe I'm killing myself
here like it's just like the weekend
when I saw what the Tanjung Paga GRC MPs
did with the memorial tree
okay I don't know how the rest on the
ground thing but I felt it was out of
touch and tone death uh you know I mean
so I'm thinking to myself who is doing
their coms for who is thinking it
through is this how you want to reach
your people and know how you want to
know win friends influence people Hello
So so that from the NRSC thing that is
what I will take away the sense that you
may not know what is happening Yeah And
what people are saying what people are
feeling the idea that your identity card
is not so valuable Your IC number okay
let's be technically correct Your IC
just say IC is not important not so
valuable I think it's really a bit way
off you know Yeah To say something like
that is way off No I mean for the impact
for say someone like Jotio who was
delivering those messages Yeah that poor
woman Yeah that one doesn't look good on
her You know that poor woman I know I
know I know but you know but what to do
uh you know you asked about the media
budget debate had one query only from
Pam who did not do much followup about
the state of the media KPIs and all
right ah you know and that was it and
then she goes around saying oh we have
different ones for different whatever
and all that and nobody asks some very
basic questions like how many years has
it been right so you know uh the KPIs
can tell me or not by now what they are
know but so everything is just So so so
vague I mean first of all you know hello
they still don't have the articles of
association They don't have a any kind
of public access to anything even though
they're taking taxpayers money to
reporting to only to MDI M I think it
was better in the past you know come
under public listed then you know you
know everybody's salary as well here we
go gaga over pre Gupta salary or god
knows who else salary right the OCBC guy
and I god knows who else and then our
ministers we don't know
don't you think we are a weird country
the the relationship between like the
media and the government is very
interesting so do you foresee yourself
covering a lot of the elections in the
runout I mean you recently cover how to
cover but you recently launched the chin
and chai chin and chai chin and chai
Okay Oh chin and chai I've had them for
a long time but it was text for right
And and basically it was basically a
take on the news of the day So it was
written and only really only people who
follow the news or follow me can get it
M true sure So uh so you know I don't
have to explain and go backgrounding so
much and it's two characters having a
conversation with two civil servants
right yeah so you know so I thought hey
maybe I can use them as a teaching tool
uh and you know every year I want to do
something different you know so last
year I had my book for example and this
year I said try to make these two fellas
educate uh the population on some things
keep them informed about some things So
uh got it ready you know worked with
Cheyenne uh got a couple of people
interested in helping do some research
and then we just
put a domain name and just put it up
there So it's all proono I I suppose you
write the script and everything and then
someone animates it and then they do the
website and everything Yeah Yeah I just
post on my
FB on my Instagram you know you know and
goes up Yeah And and they they um come
out how often oh it's up to us Up to you
all Okay Yeah So sometimes we want to do
it very fast We can But the longer
pieces uh that one takes time So
actually have a backlog I have backlog
But you see I'm a news person So I
always try and have to recast you know
recast the thing right cuz you have a
lot of info but you have to recast to
fit what is happening today So that's so
I look at that Then some when you have
to write about news you have to come on
podcast So you got no time to write and
all All right Yeah I should not come
again No no no I think it's going to be
very interesting the next few months I
mean anything that you are you are
looking forward to or hoping for that
comes out in this election this election
i don't know Uh I I would like to see
workers party retain their seats Okay
I think the PSB should get at least one
seat Elected not not NCMP
Uh and then then we'll see how they
perform I mean right now we have what 10
10 10 MPs 10 opposition MPs in
parliament So you know another 10 we can
see how let's say you know 10 what is it
five plus four plus two I can't remember
but we say you got 15 people then you
know we see whether or not they do a
good job you know coming up policies and
asking questions and all that then you
know then we all can all stay back a bit
and see is this good or not you know so
I think right now it's a it's kind of a
it's a watching stage you know for me at
least I want to watch and see what what
they up to what they're doing Then for
voters like uh what would be one thing
to like one or two things for people to
think about as they think okay I have a
template I put up which I'm going to put
out again about the the questions you
should ask your MP everybody has a
sitting MP uh you know and basically you
go and you ask your MP how many times
you are in parliament what have you
spoken out on what is the most thing
that's happened here uh is there
anything in the town council report that
you know you think western should take
note of probably not uh you know so what
are the top issues in this constituency
and then you ask them to fill it up
yeah you see because I think at the end
of the day people cannot may not be able
to grapple the concept of great law and
partisan partisanship and all that but
people can grapple with who are you and
what have you done for me lately and
what will you do for me mm Mh So can we
can get that who are you done and what
have you done for me so you know I would
say voters should just go uh oh go to
MPS but don't don't don't disrupt just
give it to the thing and say okay I hope
you fill it up and then go off the but
also since you brought it up also since
you brought it up you know what you were
saying is that sometimes people need to
be have some push back to communicate
their message So when you saw the MPS
debacle happen uh because I mean on one
hand you can understand these are
passionate youth who care about
something uh and like what you said
there's no other forum outside
parliament to have these debates Yeah
But you know you I mean basically middle
finger or not is it just cannot I mean
they kill themselves with that M uh and
basically you and you come with mask and
you wear prayers you know why wouldn't
anyone think you're up to no good M you
don't even look as though you came to
first of all do good you know you came
like that you know so I don't know I
mean if I I wanted to speak I mean I've
gone to MPS sessions about that and
sometimes even though I raise something
a personal problem or whatever I do
engage in a bit of chithat right you
know aa because you know a big long
queue so you can raise it there you can
say hey by the way uh whatever whatever
you You can do that You mean things like
POFMA yeah Okay Yeah Cuz MP especially
if you're a voter is actually obliged to
talk Yeah So you you can get some views
across and then if you say hey we should
talk some more Okay What huh we should
talk some more later you know Okay You
fix a time a day We we talk somewhere I
bring some friends Can what ah or you
know you just say I tell you what what
you are welcome to come to my house I'll
get all my neighbors in Why don't people
do that they can do that right what's
what's the problem
so so there other ways other ways to do
these things But do you see that as a
wave of of um people who want to go zero
to 100 and they Yeah Yeah Yeah I know So
yeah So it's it's because there's a lack
of what you call civic participation
Uh I mean what do we have our workers
are represented by the NTU our
grassroots by the P you know and then uh
even consumer groups is case headed by
an MP
So you know a lot of big avenues are
closed off already Yeah Yeah So you know
you talk about civil civic rights then
you have okay aware uh maybe one uh
Singapore the the Cas the Cas people uh
for investors and then beyond that death
penalty groups hello already almost like
that already you know they so what what
what other real platforms do you have so
they tell you political parties so again
now you keep everything within have to
wait for parliament Yeah Wait for
elections for volunteer and everything
which is dangerous But but I I did just
also following up on that like what do
you hope that journalists will do more
of this general election what should
they be looking to cover that you feel
that is not adequately covered frankly
over the past two three years what has
not been adequately covered is cost of
living Cost of living Yes Mhm Because
when you read about cost of living it's
always about your CPI household
expenditure right it's all the stats
that's part that's officially produced
Yeah Right Uh and then beyond that you
really don't have any ground reporting
Like for example you know GST was raised
twice right tell me have you seen
reports on the impact of GST after they
raised it first time and second time
nothing H
nothing So so now suddenly everybody
knows it's cost but really what has been
reported on it
nothing you know so but instead we are
they're waiting for people to say ah
here economy rice store budget meals
here got vending machine for food hello
that's not reporting so so you're saying
that the reporters should should kind of
ask questions related to cost of living
in the leadup to election or you think
just in general
generally generally there's a lack of
this reporting so they report what is
easiest
You know like $1 million HB flat Of
course you you report because somebody
told you the real estate agent is the
one who gives you the press release you
write
So I mean but I don't see them going to
that $1 million flat Even if the fellow
doesn't want to talk talk to the
neighbors talk upstairs talk downstairs
and say "Are you also going to sell what
do you think?" Yeah I don't get it So
you know so it's there's no not much
value M uh
you get what I mean but then the during
the election itself like you said you
said that it wasn't a lot of on the
ground reporting uh at least too
difficult you know the thing is you must
you want to do on the ground reporting
you got to do it now cuz once reorgation
comes out the new cycle will be too
hectic Yeah yeah yeah the new cycle will
be too hectic So in fact actually if you
want to do polling you better poll now
because once real election comes out you
cannot do polling Yeah Uh so is anybody
doing it
you mean the indicative polling you do
now because it hasn't come out yet You
can still do got chance Yeah So the rule
is they can't they can't touch it if
once a rid of election of course Yeah
That's against the law Yeah I can middle
ground I go and do warning And what what
did you do exactly we went and asked
people in I don't know which war after
the rate of election Yeah I tell you I
totally forgot
Yeah About what sort of MP or something
It's not even a yes no but it was in a
sense a poll of some sort right
stern warning
Yeah We had we we had the stern warning
from police We framed it up and put it
in the office
But I mean you yourself definitely going
to be keeping tabs on the election and
sharing your thoughts on on Yeah Yeah
Yeah I I will I can't help it you know
And uh yeah I wish I was still in the
newsroom now I would love to go running
Yeah But but if people wanted to find
out I mean if they are not already
following you on Facebook your Facebook
page now Chin and Chai which is his own
website and on social media also So it's
on Instagram and Tik Tok and all Tik
Tok Instagram No I tell you what I'm
hoping maybe you help me is I want to
tell all the politicians
uh out there
if you like me to cover come and tell me
can I'll go and cover yeah I will I have
no problem or opposition anybody you
send me to me get in touch with me I
will go and do so go and do meaning what
on the ground reporting or I mean I go
and talk to you because you see the
trouble is I can't do on the ground
reporting on my own I mean that's why
you have
resourcees in news rooms which can you
know so a bit h fict take that's why I
say if I'm in a newsroom it' be quite
different I would say go and get this
get this get this and then you know a
lot of bodies who can go and collect
stuff yeah but you'll call out to anyone
any politician any candidate who's
running they want to talk to you yeah
get in touch with me I I will talk to
you okay I'll write the full interview
okay great and best way to get in touch
with you Facebook any yeah they they
should know how to get in touch with me
I I mean as you say you know your salt
If you feel you're worth your salt you
should know how to get in touch with me
Yeah Okay Awesome Uh okay cool And I
mean we have that one segment at the end
of every podcast which is the show thing
Yeah So I was like thinking jinging
right then you want us to go first or
you got ready oh you all go first I go
first Okay Okay Okay You have yours yeah
Mine is a Netflix documentary I watched
recently It was called American Murder
Gabby Gabby Patito So there was a case I
think in 2021 of two hikers or two uh
people who were living the van life like
driving cross country in the US and then
they went to I think uh the Grand Tetan
National Park and then suddenly they
lost contact with the family and then I
think like 10 days later suddenly the
boyfriend was back home with his parents
with the van the girl was nowhere to be
found So so her name is Gabby Patito and
this was I think I followed the case
very closely in 2021 Uh but yeah this
documentary uh is interesting because
they managed to get footage that the
girl was shooting of
themselves Yeah they got the footage
They interviewed like her ex-boyfriend
who was she was in touch with and
various people that were on the
periphery that I didn't know were part
of the the whole thing And uh yeah it's
interesting because it was you really
see how as a parent you know like when
your child is in trouble or does
something wrong there's two approaches
you can take you know like you do all
your best to protect them or you you
know help them cover up the mistakes
that they made And you know as a parent
it's it made me just think of it in a
very different way like oh yeah I know I
know my son maybe committed a crime but
what do I do from there you know so it's
a very interesting explore They explore
They talk to the parents and explore
It's just like adolesence
[Music]
13y old parents look at the parents the
grief of the parents and anger Exactly
Yes So so there's a lot of that in this
documentary that I found because I
followed the news a lot but I didn't see
these aspects of things Is it a docu
series or documentary like three
episodes Three episodes Yeah Very easy
watch Yeah Easy I mean but not like like
I mean it's very sad when you watch it
is very sad Yeah But but because I was
following so closely I was very
interested in it
Yeah Okay Uh cool Man my one shook thing
is I mean it's a piece of news but it's
almost so ridiculous that you can't
believe it's news It's that thing that
we were talking about before the podcast
about uh the Trump administration
accidentally texting the war plans to a
journalist And if if I were to tell
anyone that there was this chat group on
a Signal app which is something like
WhatsApp but a lot more secure
apparently that this person got added to
like you know all of us have gotten
added to stupid WhatsApp groups at some
point but turns out it was a WhatsApp
group with uh JD Vance the VP of uh the
US the secretary of defense um the I
think like some very high officials
talking about the bombing of the Houthis
in Yemen and it was an actual group and
it was the and it's operational details
in his operational details and it was
the editor of the Atlantic Atlantic
manly yeah and he got added to the group
and it is ridiculous and I I think there
were certain quotes even JD Vance said
something like you know I I'm sick and
tired of being the apologize what for
Europe is it for Europe you know not
doing your part and the Pete uh was like
you know I completely agree I'm sick of
this Europe and it just felt like a
group with friends and a lot of emojis
thumbs up thumbs down whatever
yeah and all that yeah and the the
reporter just say at first he thought it
was just a so he left um 2 hours later
the bombs actually hit and you realize
that and now the White House has
admitted that yeah it was but they
playing it off So that is the second
thing that is ridiculously fascinating
that they almost saying this is not a
security ble uh breach um there was no
confidential info this being blown out
of proportion Oh my god that sounds
familiar
It sounds yeah
similar so hasn't been an article
written about it on the Atlantic only
Yeah Yeah So that's how it broke Okay
Crazy And it over the past few days and
you watch it you look at it you're like
"Oh my god." Um and you hear Trump
talking about it He's siding with his
stuff like saying it's a small it's a
glitch It's a glitch So it's it's it's
like a TV episode of a TV series about
uh comedy administration like on V or
something like that
It's ridiculous It's ridiculous Crazy
It's a bit like you a journalist who
found herself you know in the center
Okay Okay Enough Enough Enough
Yeah but that that's my wardrobe
Oh Iard you know I almost wanted to pull
that as well but then Okay I go back to
something more evergreen I recommend
this book I'm I have been on a horror
book binge for some time Horror book
Yeah So to me the most horrific of
horror books is Tender is the flesh
Augustina Aberate I I don't know is a
very weird name but really that book
will keep your eyes open until the end
It is so really the worst most horrible
horror book ever What's the premise
what's the what's the premise gender is
the flesh Yeah But what what what's the
setting flesh Flesh Flesh Flesh So what
uh murder or cannibalism
Cannibalism
Oh my god And it's tender is the flesh
the medium well whatever no so it's I
don't I don't know it just has when
anybody asks me which one I always bring
out this one is it inspired by a true
story or anything no but I think he has
shades of you know sorian green shades
of that inside it I see so I'm sorry
it's to me I know it's nine I'm sorry
about the example I g but I tell you you
want to be short go and read
how how long do it take you to read it
very you will not put it down That's
take only good Wow Tender is the flesh
Tender flesh And I'm not the only one
You go online other people is also
thought of Awesome Uh okay cool Uh thank
you so much Bera So we'll put the links
in the show notes Um always good to have
you back and the next few months are
going to be very exciting Yeah Yeah it
will be I guess we can always have
another sit down again Can can All right
And uh thank you so much for inviting me
Well welcome Thank you so much I hope
you watch you see Chin and Chai Yeah Our
about us video is I saw I saw us we are
featured Yeah Yeah we are featured We'll
put a link to that in
the cool and thanks everyone for
listening and we'll talk to you all soon