0:00 is a bit like the reverse of the
0:01 presidency You know you want to stand
0:03 for president you must take off at Sal I
0:05 am
0:06 nonpartisan And then this one is oh I
0:09 better get out of parliament because I
0:11 am going to be partisan I'm like okay P
0:14 you know you don't want to paralyze the
0:15 government But you also don't want one
0:18 group of people able to push through
0:21 everything I'm sure people will be very
0:23 unhappy with me but I will say this I
0:24 think the mosquito party should all just
0:26 go away you know I mean some of them are
0:30 it is already the case in the past few
0:32 elections that you are not gaining
0:34 traction you know so what are you trying
0:36 to do so if you're into this podcast
0:39 chances are you're all about those deep
0:41 meaningful conversations but what if you
0:43 could take that to the next level
0:45 imagine a podcast that's super personal
0:48 like all about someone special in your
0:50 life their stories their memories their
0:52 voice that's exactly what we do at
0:54 Focaly here's the deal you tell us who
0:57 the podcast is for and we set up a
0:59 30-inute call with someone who knows
1:01 them best Maybe it's you a family member
1:03 or a close friend We handle the
1:05 interview and boom within a week you've
1:07 got a studio quality podcast that's
1:09 basically a time capsule of their life
1:12 And believe me it hits different Just
1:14 ask Brendan Lee who dropped this
1:16 folklory on his wife for Valentine's Day
1:18 His words she loved it Said it was the
1:21 best gift ever and she has gotten some
1:23 pretty good gifts before So if you'd
1:25 like to create something special too
1:27 check us out at folklery.com The links
1:29 in the show notes and we'd love to chat
1:31 Now on to the podcast
1:35 What's up everybody welcome to another
1:38 episode of Yala
1:41 your thrice weekly podcast where we talk
1:43 about the hottest news with a touch of
1:44 what Terrence good old humor Good old
1:47 humor man Yes Going to be talking about
1:49 a lot of things in the news today
1:51 Correct But with a special guest Yeah
1:53 someone who's I mean she actually is
1:56 like sometimes the the center of these
1:58 news topics surprisingly like it just
2:01 she just pulls these things out of her
2:02 head that we never knew existed and then
2:04 it becomes a huge story for everyone
2:06 Yeah A story which we covered a lot Um
2:09 so so I mean it's great to have for the
2:11 second time back on Yalabad Uh Bertha
2:13 Hansen welcome back Thank you Thank you
2:16 But now must be the season that you're
2:18 like you wake up every morning and you
2:19 you can't wait to get out of bed right
2:21 because not until like so much going on
2:24 season I'm saying like your it's in your
2:26 blood to one very exercised by it Yes
2:29 Yeah Yeah Yeah But what's what
2:31 difference is it from like normal you
2:33 know normal periods without elections
2:35 Peace time Peace time Peace timer
2:37 No Well basically I mean I've always
2:40 observed and covered politics such so
2:43 much you know and I was just telling
2:45 Harish that there's so much I want to
2:47 say about it because I've covered it for
2:49 so long So there's so much I know Yeah
2:52 And when people say things and they
2:54 don't remember this and don't remember
2:55 that I get so you know I must tell you
2:58 how this happened or you know this thing
3:02 has happened and you don't remember and
3:03 all that sort of things So it gets very
3:05 irritating for me sometimes reading
3:07 about political news and the GE reports
3:10 like for example whenever I read the
3:12 constituency reports you know the EBRC
3:16 reports No the you know what's happening
3:18 in
3:19 SA you know now it's very vogue right
3:22 you know the the mainstream media is
3:23 doing I get so irritated oh really why
3:26 because in the past we didn't do it like
3:28 that because you know I mean we had a
3:30 lot more facts like I mean it's not just
3:34 tell you number of blocks not just that
3:36 number of voters tells you things like
3:38 you know how long the meet the people
3:40 session how many people go there you
3:43 know what the residents bring up we look
3:44 at town council reports reports what the
3:47 town council reports say how much do
3:48 they charge SEC you know we we had this
3:51 kind of more data polit political data
3:55 and then we make sure we chat corner
3:57 whoever it is down there So it's not
3:59 just a swift 20man interview with men in
4:03 the street and then we pull out
4:06 everything that's been written on the
4:07 internet and then we patch it together
4:09 with a few quotes Oh come on It can't be
4:12 it can't be like that You really need
4:14 ground reporting and right now this
4:16 reliance on internet by the way in my
4:17 time I got no internet
4:19 hope you need to go and jal do they go
4:23 on the ground to these NPS sessions to
4:24 actually I have no idea I don't know and
4:27 no and no chat GBT also so you can't
4:29 like just ask oh my god yeah I remember
4:32 go down go back a few times to a certain
4:35 place because I didn't get the property
4:36 prices increase in property prices oh my
4:39 god it was really supposed to be so deep
4:42 yeah And you know what's the problem we
4:44 didn't even get to run it because
4:46 elections were called So in those days
4:49 when it was swift you really are a lot
4:52 of things you can't can't report cuz the
4:55 rate of election is out and then you are
4:58 busy the new cycle gets to you Yeah
5:12 Now uh uh could be based on articles you
5:14 actually wrote in in previous times you
5:16 know which people might not be aware of
5:18 Oh yeah yeah yeah I mean there was this
5:21 crazy one when I think uh Hazel Hua you
5:24 know the PSP was doing the election
5:27 boundaries and they were they had a
5:28 motion in parliament to discuss that and
5:31 I remember after that the question about
5:33 whether there's gerrymandering whether
5:36 anything is politically motivated right
5:39 and then somebody I saw online said that
5:41 uh yeah yeah of course it is you know
5:43 you don't remember uh go chukong carved
5:46 out McFersonen for Junan and then you
5:49 know the other side there no such thing
5:50 Why your sources they said "Oh Wikipedia
5:53 You trust Wikipedia I'm looking at it
5:55 all." I get so fed up So I just
5:58 responded and I said "Yes it's true."
6:02 Then someone said "Who's your source?" I
6:05 said "The source is
6:07 me." And then of course all got a bit
6:10 flabbergasted by it I said "Yeah I wrote
6:12 the damn story I reported it I
6:14 interviewed the prime minister then."
6:17 You know so it was like You know
6:20 sometimes you know you don't know things
6:24 and you can go into the past a bit and
6:26 you know dig some things out but then if
6:28 you don't know what you don't know how
6:29 you going to dig
6:30 You know you get what I mean so is that
6:32 a motivation that keeps you wanting to
6:34 be vocal about things like this because
6:35 you almost feel like um there is the the
6:39 knowledge of the past is kind of lost
6:41 Agree I think so Sometimes it's like why
6:44 are we so ignorant about some things
6:46 that have happened let me today you
6:47 should read the mothership article on
6:50 what's his name joshua right joshua Yeah
6:55 Yeah I'm supposed to be writing about it
6:56 this morning but I'm here with you
6:58 Fantastic I know I mean a lot has been
7:01 said about nominated MPs right i mean
7:03 when they first resigned the two of them
7:05 right but sorry just to clarify first
7:06 it's uh the the whole story is about
7:09 these uh two nominated uh MPs who now
7:13 have resigned from their post before the
7:15 end of their term Yes And there's
7:17 there's word on the ground that they
7:18 might be Oh no It's already out It's
7:20 already out that they're running It's
7:22 not out that they're running Ambiguous
7:25 That is the problem right so basically
7:27 it's like uh you know are you running
7:30 for PAP well it all depends I mean to me
7:33 it just shows you right It's so
7:37 politician like or partisan position It
7:39 depends on the prime minister and that's
7:41 what he's saying And it says don't get
7:43 fixated by Joshua Rush Yeah Yeah And I'm
7:46 like "Hey can you you know be a just say
7:49 yes or no?" But then you can't say yes
7:51 or no because you're now part of a party
7:53 Yeah So it just shows you right i mean
7:56 if he were an independent neutral person
7:58 probably can say yes or no But now
8:00 depends on but but what do you think of
8:02 the defense that he put out saying that
8:05 um it made sense for him to retire as an
8:08 NMP because he was no longer bipartisan
8:10 He felt himself Okay I tell you my my
8:12 take is a bit different Okay My take is
8:15 what is the PAP thinking
8:19 you know I mean I've been there since it
8:22 inception That's how DN
8:24 Yeah Way from the very beginning
8:28 you know I mean what is the PAP thinking
8:30 when he wanted to put it up the NMP uh
8:34 they they face objections from their own
8:35 MPs so much so that it wasn't even it
8:39 was supposed to be a tentative
8:40 institution you is something that every
8:43 parliament had to decide whether I want
8:45 an MPs in the house Then it became part
8:48 of the system Then it became part of the
8:51 constitution Yeah And then you expand
8:54 expand make it or sectoral
8:56 representation Right Uh and then you
8:59 gave powers that are almost as close as
9:02 an elected MP right over the years you
9:05 keep drumming this thing about
9:07 nonpartisan independent and then you
9:09 know put it in the constitution you know
9:12 the constitution on NMPs is actually a
9:15 lot more info then on your elected MPs
9:18 no the elected MPs one is in the
9:21 parliamentary elections act not in the
9:24 constitution
9:26 but in the constitution it says uh how
9:29 many NMPs I think nine and these are
9:31 their powers in the constitution mm Okay
9:34 So you go through all that trouble and
9:37 then this year you're going to say "Ah
9:39 welcome." Yeah You know you try to
9:42 convince people about the the
9:44 nonpartisan nature Welcome I'm so glad
9:46 you have seen the light and come to me
9:48 Yeah Yeah What are you doing you have un
9:51 you know you undid so many years trying
9:55 to convince people about this
9:57 institution Yeah And you throw it away
9:59 But you you mentioned that that is what
10:01 is the PP doing but what about the I
10:04 mean the individual himself choosing to
10:06 do that What if he's the conviction is
10:09 so strong that he feels like white I'm
10:11 like I I believe everything I hear It's
10:14 very simp
10:19 then you have an institution
10:22 All depends which one you think is more
10:24 important to you Yeah How would you want
10:26 to protect an institution that has been
10:29 developed over the years through much
10:32 trouble or do you think wow now I want
10:35 to go and serve And hello excuse me
10:38 you've been in an NMP for two terms No
10:41 could always quit in the after first
10:43 term Uh true but now you quit before
10:46 budget Yeah Hello the most important
10:49 debate in parliament and you quit before
10:51 it and you say "Oh I can't uh see how I
10:56 can know be nonpartisan." You suddenly
10:59 became partisan Yeah You know this
11:02 nonpartisan thing is really getting to
11:03 me I mean you know it's a bit like the
11:06 reverse of the presidency You know you
11:08 want to stand for president you must
11:09 take off I am
11:12 nonpartisan And then I mean
11:16 reverse Yeah Yeah And then this one is
11:18 oh I better get out of parliament
11:20 because I am going to be partisan
11:25 I'm like okay you know I know the
11:28 constitution doesn't say you need to be
11:29 sure uh you know you you you you have to
11:32 be nonpartisan It just says independent
11:35 Okay So we all know what that means But
11:37 but does does that mean that you're
11:39 giving more grief to the PAP side of
11:42 things or the individual NMP in in this
11:45 i don't know I just don't think I just
11:47 don't think you're doing any good
11:49 anywhere Yeah I mean it creates it's
11:51 almost a mockery of the the system when
11:52 it becomes feels like it's a stepping
11:54 stone to to I mean you know I I I don't
11:58 know I I
11:59 I just think the PP should just say can
12:02 you guess stay put even if you if you if
12:06 you end you know just stay put you know
12:10 Yeah But would you say anything
12:12 different if they were doing it to step
12:14 down and then run for opposition in
12:16 opposition party same thing So so I mean
12:19 you know now that we are in the leadup
12:21 to the next elections you also wrote a
12:24 book about the GE 2020 election So given
12:26 there was co but how what are the big
12:28 differences you see in this stage of
12:30 like leading up to the election oh I
12:32 think this is uh far more exciting I
12:35 mean that one was quite sudden I think
12:38 and there was
12:39 co you know can't go to rallies and you
12:42 go look you know and I think the PB
12:44 wasn't very prepared to be on social
12:47 media uh so they so that their their
12:51 their
12:53 campaigning wasn't very g I mean now you
12:57 see I'm I'm quite sure some of the the
12:59 you know stuff on Tik Tok and you know
13:02 Instagram they're all professionally
13:03 done m you know so you can see that
13:06 they're gearing up and so so that's good
13:09 I mean that that to me is pretty good Uh
13:12 and you know it looks like the forward
13:14 Singapore report will be his manifesto
13:16 Mhm You know whereas after co it seemed
13:19 like they just wanted to quickly take
13:20 advantage of co and just pop come out
13:22 with something but now it looks like
13:25 there's a gradual buildup So and of
13:28 course most interestingly is this is a
13:30 mandate for I mean for the prime
13:32 minister the 4G so it will be looked at
13:36 that way too Yeah And but what about uh
13:39 media coverage side of things do you
13:41 think feel the mainstream media has a
13:43 different role in this G compared to I
13:46 think they far more active or more
13:48 active more active Yes Yes Yes I mean
13:50 they're covering a lot more Uh but then
13:53 you see the politicians are also
13:54 speaking a lot more M yeah what I don't
13:57 like is how more the lack of ground
14:01 reporting you know as I mentioned
14:02 earlier you know I mean you if you just
14:06 report what every politician says what's
14:09 the point I mean you know you I can get
14:12 it on social media you know you want to
14:14 to do Facebook reporting I I mean what
14:18 what extra do you give me
14:20 you know so the value added must be
14:23 there you know what's the value added so
14:25 so even like uh would the recent EBRC
14:28 report be an example of where maybe the
14:30 media could have dissected it a bit more
14:33 as opposed to just talking about I tell
14:35 you this uh I have a regret uh you know
14:40 I mean I've covered plenty of EBRC
14:42 reports and I don't see some of the
14:45 things then that I didn't see some of
14:47 things then that I see now
14:50 maybe it's age we got wiser also because
14:54 I think I've got more
14:55 You know when you are a journalist you
14:57 just get caught up with the news cycle
14:59 another day another thing another thing
15:00 you just want get out so you really
15:03 don't look at it you know very closely
15:06 now you got time I can superimpose
15:09 polling this trick on top of polling
15:11 this trick I can you know do all sorts
15:13 of things and then I say ah like that so
15:16 you know it's u it's I wish I was a lot
15:20 more I mean more informed at that point
15:23 when I was doing the writing Okay Yeah
15:26 Well what was the what more have you
15:29 seen now that you have time to really
15:30 analyze it what is the the key points
15:32 that you notice well you know the key
15:35 point is how
15:37 much how much it is really the prime
15:39 minister's prerogative to to have to
15:42 hold the election draw the boundaries
15:45 put the people everywhere and all that
15:48 And it's a bit disconcerting You know I
15:50 was telling you just now how the NMP one
15:52 was enshrined but not really the elected
15:56 MPs right I mean I think I I don't know
15:59 whether I'm correct so I'm not
16:01 constitutional expert but I think yes we
16:03 have to call elections uh and the
16:06 constitution says something about GRC's
16:09 that there must be GRC's and what what
16:11 things are GRC's and then you got to go
16:13 to parliamentary elections act
16:16 and the thing about parliamentary
16:18 elections act which I found
16:20 So so strange is that you have a minimum
16:23 of eight SCMC's SMC's SMC's okay uh
16:27 minimum of eight and then okay so you
16:30 know there will always be SMC's right
16:32 and then you say that there must uh at
16:36 least one quarter of your seats or your
16:39 MPs must come from GRC's
16:42 so you have a minimum eight and at least
16:45 here you know that the variance is so
16:48 wide because you didn't put a numerical
16:51 figure to the number of seats anyway so
16:53 you have an eight here and a one quarter
16:55 there Yeah Yeah
16:58 You know so I I I I I it's so you really
17:02 you can actually do a lot in between I
17:04 can have eight SMC's and 100 GRC's One
17:08 GRC No one one huge GRC one you know So
17:14 so things like that Then for example
17:16 what is the MP to voter ratio one is to
17:20 28500
17:21 Yeah 28 who came out with that magic
17:24 figure you know i I don't know No I mean
17:27 so so basically when people say "Oh the
17:29 EBRC left to do it own thing and all
17:31 that but I don't even know the general
17:35 points you know like how many MPs how do
17:38 you come out with one MP to 28,000?"
17:40 What is the standard deviation by the
17:42 way the deviation is not in this GRC's
17:45 report Yeah Yeah But I calculated I
17:47 think it's about 20 over% Yeah So you
17:50 don't tell me that And then we cling to
17:52 this thing about population shifts right
17:55 oh we have to redraw because population
17:57 shift and estate Hey hello that's your
17:59 job How is that an explanation for how
18:02 you draw boundaries yeah You know so
18:05 it's like if it you you shouldn't you be
18:08 telling me some parameters like oh we
18:10 will always you know uh have a deviation
18:13 of how much we came out with 28,000 or
18:17 whatever because uh uh we tried not to
18:20 mess around with you know old boundaries
18:22 or whatever you know you need some
18:26 parameters so that people can have a
18:28 grip on it you know you know one thing
18:32 that we have never really found out and
18:36 nothing's been said You know GRC's right
18:39 is supposed to have Malay or Indian and
18:42 others and they are specific No the
18:45 constituencies this one must be M That
18:47 one must be whatever
18:49 You know specific it must be specific
18:52 Yes Okay You know we never told how that
18:54 came that comes about
18:58 You realize it You don't know You know I
19:00 didn't know it was meant to be specific
19:02 I thought there were you go to one they
19:05 will tell you this part is only for is
19:08 it I thought I thought there was there
19:11 was some requirement for Malay
19:13 representation Indian representation but
19:14 I didn't know it was at a constituency
19:16 level yes it is you can't anyhow put
19:20 Indian when there's supposed to be a
19:22 Malay there okay
19:25 yeah yeah okay so you see all these
19:27 things not explained right
19:29 we don't know I mean a big part of is
19:32 how close the EBRC report is released to
19:34 the election as well right that doesn't
19:36 give a lot of time for even when
19:38 journalists you know I think basically
19:40 that only comes out I don't know when
19:43 rate of election I think only when bit
19:45 rate of election comes out then they
19:46 tell you where oh okay okay okay this
19:49 one I'm afraid I'm not sure the EBRC
19:52 when it comes out no no the EPRC just
19:54 gives you the boundaries they tell you
19:56 which GRC but they don't tell you which
19:58 GRC needs a meal
20:00 they don't okay ah so the the so when it
20:04 does happen I'm not sure when that is I
20:07 think it is when the r of election comes
20:09 up because then the parties who want to
20:11 contest in GRC's also especially
20:12 opposition parties must guess You need
20:14 to hold your cards You need to guess
20:16 guess a bit But SMC you can I mean you
20:19 can declare that there's no problem
20:21 there But you know there was uh what you
20:23 heard some of the people from PB saying
20:25 that this EBRC report is more
20:26 transparent than ever You know we should
20:28 be grateful It is right It is there are
20:29 more explanations There are more words
20:33 there are more words Okay So the the
20:37 words uh distribution is uh uh
20:40 population shifts which I tell you I
20:42 don't need you to tell me that you have
20:44 to redraw based on population shifts
20:46 Yeah The second point is a prime
20:48 minister saying please keep it about the
20:50 same That is mainly the second point
20:52 Hello So you tell me is that an
20:55 explanation when I don't even know why
20:57 the PM wants to keep it about the same M
21:00 so you know and I was listen to Janu
21:02 Pucherry he says what's so inappropriate
21:05 we only we one SMC and we just did this
21:08 hello I mean EBRC isn't just a numbers
21:11 game of how many SMC's and GRC's is the
21:14 way you chop it yeah yeah yeah not just
21:17 the way you you know how many pieces you
21:19 divide it's how you chop up the pieces
21:21 as well
21:22 so so it's a lot of words and I suppose
21:25 we have to be grateful so s that there's
21:29 a few more words uh and know they tell
21:32 me this is ratio to this ratio and know
21:36 this or whatever
21:37 but no you're not going into the
21:40 underpinnings of this thing in the first
21:41 place I mean if the last EBRC
21:44 explain why the the why how we drew then
21:49 then maybe now I can say oh okay so they
21:51 want the same thing but
21:53 they didn't do that either do that
21:56 but if I mean we would love for it to be
22:00 super transparent and all the data and
22:03 information out there but what is the
22:05 most immediate thing that you would
22:06 change if you could more what what
22:08 detail would you want to see in the EBRC
22:10 report that you feel like isn't too
22:13 onirus too too difficult a change to
22:15 make or just something that you can see
22:17 in the EBRC report that would make it
22:19 okay first of all I want you to state
22:21 what is the deviation from the mean
22:23 because that was something you did and
22:24 now you don't the deviation of the
22:26 28,000 once 20,000 voters yeah I mean I
22:29 mean I mean come on you know SMC like
22:34 biggest 33,000 voters you know I think
22:37 the smallest is 20 something I just
22:39 imagine the poor bloody candidate
22:42 running like a headless chicken to get
22:44 33,000 waters and then the other fellow
22:47 having
22:49 lack of draw you know and then you know
22:52 and also
22:54 uh the fact is some constituents are
22:56 more compact than others so maybe not be
22:58 28,000 it could be
23:01 30,000 it's not as though you got to go
23:03 far far to go and get your constituent
23:04 you know so you could maybe handle more
23:08 more people or maybe you should handle
23:09 less but Somebody has to explain this
23:12 you know so you know you so I there's no
23:15 explanation for that uh for example if
23:19 you say keep to the average size of
23:21 GRC's is what prime minister said so it
23:24 be four and five members
23:26 hello uh so if he said something
23:29 else please introduce three member GRC's
23:34 you can also do that
23:36 so it really depends on what he wants
23:39 he never said increase the number of
23:41 single seat WS but going by the trend is
23:45 usual to give you one let's say watching
23:47 grass grow one one this time one more
23:51 yeah so so
23:54 basically I actually don't think that uh
23:58 it's a question of as you say what can
24:00 be immediately done with the EBRC okay
24:04 those little things deviation or that
24:06 you know can explain a bit but I happen
24:09 to think like Kevin Tan a constitutional
24:12 lawyer that we do need an elections
24:14 commission to redraw this whole thing
24:16 Yeah He mentioned that in LinkedIn post
24:17 right because this whole thing about
24:19 equal representation is very important
24:21 Yeah Yeah Equal representing because it
24:24 it it means a lot you know I mean for
24:27 example okay uh the courts have said it
24:31 they said that you know if some member
24:32 of a GRC quits Yeah the rest of them
24:36 take over But
24:38 SMC you must have a B like I I don't
24:41 know very weird also Yeah You know so
24:43 I'm like okay so you know shouldn't is
24:46 that equal representation i'm not sure
24:49 Correct Correct You know if you have
24:51 four fellas in parliament representing
24:53 you instead of five that is not equal
24:55 representation And then you require all
24:58 of them to vacate their seats so that
24:59 you can have an election I so you see so
25:03 some I some basic principles must be in
25:06 place for everything else to follow Uh
25:09 but so we're talking about the almost
25:11 like the process the transparency of the
25:13 EBRC report and all Um but in terms of
25:16 how parties should think about it right
25:19 I I've I've talked about this previously
25:21 where Harsh we were talking about EBRC
25:23 report I was like but if a you know
25:25 opposition party is worth its salt and
25:28 it's doing the leg work for 5 years
25:31 right it shouldn't come as a big
25:34 surprise that there will be changes
25:36 within the boundaries and if they have a
25:39 strategy of like working an area sort of
25:42 like uh you know rather than just like
25:44 okay I only carve out certain areas and
25:46 I hope that they hold it for the
25:47 election it I mean if they're worth
25:49 their salt they should have already seen
25:51 this coming right have you been able to
25:53 see some of the boundaries coming I
25:55 don't think so And in any case I mean
25:57 that might work for for opposition party
26:00 I mean parties who only want to contest
26:02 SMC's but quite a lot of them were
26:05 gunning for GRC's Yeah So you know so
26:08 it's not as though they're looking at a
26:09 small part of Singapore and then want to
26:12 cultivate it So you look at it the other
26:14 way around They have spent time
26:16 cultivating a bigger area and then
26:19 having a part of it sliced away M so you
26:22 know I I'm not sure how prepared people
26:24 can be for that now the only thing is
26:26 whether or not between when what is the
26:28 period between now EBRC report out and
26:32 the rate of election being issued so
26:34 this is the time right where you can go
26:36 and you know do what you need to do you
26:38 know those areas where you haven't
26:40 canvas or whatever you know you you have
26:42 to go and do that yeah yeah so so I I'm
26:46 not so sure what you're getting at
26:48 because uh you know I think if you ask
26:51 PAP MPs they themselves probably are not
26:53 too happy too ah you know I mean you
26:56 know suddenly you you know get pulled
26:59 out and all that hey you know this this
27:01 now it's the other side yeah thank god
27:04 middle finger show shown in the vicinity
27:06 oh my god you know this middle finger
27:08 thing the only only
27:11 reason is caught on right is because we
27:15 we don't see it but it does happen so
27:19 you know what's the problem I What
27:21 happens you mean people showing the
27:22 message of course not Slam the door on
27:24 your face tell you to please go away I
27:27 mean this happens during campaigning not
27:30 just now So you think we the message
27:32 should be this is part for the cause you
27:33 know Yes Exactly It's part for the cause
27:36 It's just that you got caught on camera
27:38 Yeah Correct It's part for the cause You
27:40 know I don't want to if I don't want to
27:42 open my door I don't open my door If I
27:43 tell you I'm not interested in talking
27:46 to you Yeah I tell you that So what's
27:48 what's the big deal i I really saw no
27:51 need for knowing multiple explanations
27:53 and I really saw no need I mean did you
27:57 expect that everybody will love you no
28:00 So what's the big deal So to to find
28:03 them getting all defensive to me is
28:05 likeh what the hell and I did see that
28:07 you know there was a PAP volunteer who
28:09 was also embraed
28:13 He said I was pointing to another table
28:15 You haven't done I really I really don't
28:18 think you know I mean what he should
28:21 have said is that I wasn't pointing at
28:22 you to put your camera down but he
28:25 didn't say that either Yeah Notice Oh
28:28 okay Okay Ah because the the impact was
28:31 you are telling the guy who's videoing
28:34 watching you right but you didn't say
28:36 that too in your defense You instead put
28:39 up another reason why you might be
28:41 pointing a finger Yeah So I don't know a
28:44 lot of finger pointing going on these
28:45 days middle fingers and all and index
28:48 finger and everything Yeah But um I mean
28:51 you know that the the way the coms are
28:54 being done cuz you know like that
28:56 there's in my mind I would be like okay
28:58 um there are many ways to to go through
28:59 any story you know um be it the
29:02 fingerpointing or be it some of the
29:03 other sagas Uh do you think that I mean
29:07 the PP is being a lot more savvy on
29:09 social media but when you see
29:10 politicians being too savvy on social
29:12 media does it how do you feel about that
29:16 h I tell you uh a long long time ago
29:19 when the internet came into being and
29:23 then uh the prime minister Menlong
29:25 started going on it Mhm FB I really did
29:29 not like it because I always would like
29:32 my leaders to have a little mystery
29:33 about them Oh really rather than be too
29:36 open and I know your every secret know
29:39 that kind of thing Yeah So now I mean I
29:42 guess I'm getting used to it but I also
29:46 think that I mean if you do an interview
29:48 and it's a podcast like this it's
29:49 perfectly fine I mean it's just an
29:51 interview but if you have something that
29:52 is done especially to show you off which
29:54 is a political advertisement right it's
29:57 a political advertisement then I don't
29:59 know I this is the part where you tell
30:03 me I don't want to be populist
30:06 but you are looking for the popular vote
30:08 right I mean you know so I mean you will
30:11 go on these things to reach
30:13 people popular vote isn't it yeah yeah
30:16 so I don't know I I have mixed feelings
30:19 but I do understand that young people
30:21 lap it up Yeah And I don't lap it up But
30:25 then how is that different from you
30:27 being on Facebook cuz I mean you are a
30:29 public figure right you I mean you you
30:32 have been had a public role for a long
30:34 time Couldn't the same be said about you
30:35 you know I prefer
30:37 Ber mysterious I don't need to but I
30:39 don't I'm not a politician I have no
30:40 figure I have nothing to gain and
30:42 nothing to lose
30:45 On Facebook it's not as though I mean
30:48 you want to follow me you follow you
30:49 don't follow done I mean it's not as
30:50 though you are going to vote for me
30:53 right I mean seriously I mean do
30:56 whatever you want and I will do whatever
30:58 I want I don't have uh I mean a
31:01 commitment to my voters or whatever no
31:05 so hello I'm afraid you can't quite
31:07 equate me that way
31:11 but but actually since the last time you
31:14 came on so right there have been a
31:16 couple of you know big things that have
31:18 big pieces of news One was obviously NRC
31:21 debacle but the other one also was uh
31:23 Pritam Singh's conviction right I mean
31:26 just just touching on the second one
31:27 first we'll go back to NRC in a bit I'm
31:29 sure but for Pittam Singh's side of
31:31 things what's your take on all that has
31:33 that damaged the workers party brand or
31:36 or has it turned people against you know
31:38 the the PAP or what what's your take on
31:41 that
31:43 you know I had expected the whole town
31:46 council saga to affect the workers party
31:49 brand that went on for two general
31:52 elections and more and it didn't did it
31:55 I think and that was something that is
31:57 very should be close to the hearts of
31:59 his voters because it is about their
32:02 funds you know so if nothing happened
32:05 there right and this is a case of she
32:08 lie I lie do you lie do you not lie
32:11 you really think that will have much
32:13 impact I doubt but I mean now with uh
32:18 over the past few years there has been a
32:20 lot more how you say presence of social
32:22 media you know snippets um and I think
32:25 people's opinions of people are being
32:28 formed more than ever by what they see
32:30 on social media so so I think what
32:32 happened with the town council thing
32:33 that almost felt like it was only in the
32:35 newspapers you know it never went into
32:38 social media okay uh so with Britam now
32:40 there's you know him walking to court
32:42 being charged um and you know waiting
32:44 for sentencing and all that feels a lot
32:47 more public now and you still don't
32:48 think there's any impact
32:53 Well if it does then I'm I don't know
32:55 I'll be a bit surprised or maybe even on
32:58 him as an individual because of town
32:59 council Exactly Yeah I mean basically I
33:01 think social media can make you very
33:03 popular or very unpopular Uh but whether
33:06 or not uh that should shift the way you
33:09 think about someone Yeah that's
33:11 something I don't know I mean I can also
33:12 say wow Pam he step up damn good caught
33:16 on social media immediately I can I can
33:18 say that too I can say that you know he
33:21 looks very down walking to the
33:22 courthouse and that these are
33:24 impressions and I suppose impressions
33:26 will count in a voters's mind
33:30 I hope not I hope that won't be the case
33:34 I mean definitely but in some ways
33:36 there's has kind of neuted any kind of
33:39 PR a lot of PR that he could have done
33:41 the last few months answer I think he
33:42 couldn't say uh he couldn't be as public
33:44 about a lot of things because he was
33:46 going through the court process and all
33:48 that right no Why he could have said
33:51 something Why maybe it's just sour
33:54 brings that we didn't get pretend on the
33:55 podcast by him I don't think there was
33:58 no any constraint at all Oh really i
34:01 mean don't talk about the case Yeah But
34:03 it doesn't mean that you can't talk
34:04 about something else Yeah I mean we did
34:06 see him from state from the state court
34:08 walk over to parliament join a
34:09 parliament session then
34:13 state very public So yeah I I I don't
34:18 Okay I don't think he'll have much of a
34:19 name I mean if anything I saw that
34:22 Minister of State Alvin Tan he he did a
34:24 he did a Liquanu tribute I didn't see it
34:27 I mean it was just yesterday or
34:29 something right and then he did some
34:30 kind of he
34:33 inserted video at the end when he was
34:36 talking about I just wish they just
34:38 leave the old man
34:40 alone
34:43 Seriously leave the old man alone Yo I
34:47 mean you are 4G four No Yeah But how
34:51 like if we the election is held every 5
34:53 years literally there'll be
34:55 that 30th anniversary of
34:59 the 5 years coincide with SG70 some then
35:03 you know our founders memorial when it
35:05 comes Oh my god I I don't know I've said
35:10 be before that you know you know I mean
35:13 the old man didn't like this in the
35:14 first movie you know and basically if
35:17 you want to learn from the old man go
35:19 and read about him and read what he says
35:22 uh but don't use him as a as a
35:24 bargaining chip for or against you know
35:27 now we're very used to pulling out his
35:29 code and say see what he says he also
35:31 said this he also said that oh my
35:34 goodness
35:36 I feel like I go to his the tree and
35:37 then plant some flowers there and and 4D
35:40 also come out What but but speaking of
35:42 see what he said right you know that he
35:44 had that famous quote about he will get
35:46 out of his grave Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah
35:48 This is it I mean there there are people
35:50 online who are saying that the state
35:52 Singapore is in now like he better get
35:55 up He better do you really feel like
35:57 we're at a stage where where we really
36:00 should be calling for Lee Kuanu to come
36:01 back from the grave or anything
36:03 i think what I would like to
36:07 see is something that Han Fukuang said
36:10 too in his recent
36:12 piece You know they must give me a new
36:14 vision a collective vision I can get
36:16 behind because right now your
36:19 vulnerability narrative is being
36:23 destroyed by your own bureaucratic way
36:25 of putting things across I mean global
36:28 uncertainties and political shifts and
36:30 all that God knows man I mean Lie Kuwan
36:32 you would have said it differently where
36:34 we say you don't buck up you die
36:37 so so I I I don't see and something
36:41 strong coming out from the 4G in fact
36:44 everything is so it's like so reassuring
36:48 we have your back we will walk with you
36:52 we won't leave you behind we will do
36:54 what we can I mean you know it's like
36:59 okay you know so you want more hard
37:01 truth I want more I want something
37:03 harder You know instead you're trying to
37:06 tell me it's okay But you think people
37:08 are ready to hear the the hard truth i
37:11 think frankly even if they're not ready
37:13 they should be hearing the hard truth
37:16 because right now I'm getting a very
37:18 soft music you know from them And I
37:22 don't think we should have that You know
37:24 I was reading uh yesterday you know like
37:27 the Dutch for example cut one public
37:29 holiday M we want to raise them Of
37:32 course I also say who doesn't want
37:34 public holidays but then the Dutch cut
37:37 it to raise output you know because they
37:40 have to think about defending themselves
37:42 you know Ukraine and all that sort of
37:43 things you know Yeah We don't think in
37:45 those terms do we yeah So you think we
37:48 are all still too much in a bubble we're
37:50 too much in a bubble and we're getting
37:51 very entitled You think you can run away
37:55 uh from not giving CDC vouchers next
37:57 time hello M uh and you think people
38:01 will be happy it's only $800 Yeah When
38:04 he started with what$100 $200 in $2
38:07 denominations
38:09 people will get used to it That is the
38:11 the thing that I worries me that's why I
38:13 said some hard truths that better be So
38:16 so you think generally the sentiment of
38:18 like maybe that that worry like what you
38:21 say you know not seeing a vision not
38:23 seeing a strong um leadership almost you
38:27 think it's more now than it was say in
38:29 2020 2020 well 2020 is co
38:33 ah I think which is also could have been
38:35 bleak a lot of bleak sentiments out
38:36 there and all yeah so but they handled
38:38 that okay I think everybody was going
38:40 through co you know I mean almost I mean
38:44 it's a it's a global phenomenon Right So
38:47 I think we handle that well But now
38:50 postco is even more low on you know so
38:53 that's where I think you need to come up
38:55 with your own idea so to speak you know
38:58 I mean you can't always tell me to be
39:00 nimble and agile and upgrade my skills
39:03 Yeah I I I don't I I I I can't They
39:08 don't have a a good story to tell about
39:13 why you need me But but but isn't this
39:17 line of like um you know hard truths
39:20 strong men politics isn't that what the
39:22 rest of the world is seeing more of with
39:24 you know in the US with Trump and and
39:28 even want that in Singapore really hey
39:30 hello Trumpian And we must still have a
39:33 bit of rule or law I mean that that
39:36 still must be it No I want to see them
39:38 do be harder and that is the ruling
39:41 party But you know I also wouldn't want
39:45 them to dominate all sectors of life
39:48 You know I mean you know the I I will
39:52 follow them if they can give me an idea
39:54 where we are going how we're doing it
39:56 instead of of of always being trying to
39:59 molly coddle me I don't want I don't
40:02 want that Maybe that's what other people
40:04 want I mean I can imagine like um
40:07 certain demographics preferring that but
40:10 um you know like this air of like
40:12 uncertainty I mean even we feel it right
40:14 looking at the the global things but is
40:17 it something that every generation faces
40:19 cuz you've been covering politics for
40:20 quite a while previous elections like in
40:22 the '9s in the 80s was there that same
40:25 element of like where is the world
40:27 heading you know or you think now is
40:29 more than ever now is more than ever I
40:31 mean I mean you I mean don't talk about
40:33 Indochina time that is quite whole
40:35 different ball game really but I mean
40:37 80s and 90s were very good for us was
40:40 great Yeah So know we were boom town
40:44 economic growth double digit and all
40:46 that you know so it was a comfortable
40:49 period Yeah So then doesn't doesn't give
40:51 that doesn't that justify the
40:53 uncertainty that even for the for the
40:55 leaders the ministers who say okay that
40:57 that lack of a concerted vision right it
41:00 is because it is more more uncertainty
41:02 now I'm sorry man I elected you to come
41:04 up with it you knowh you come up with it
41:08 it's not a question I I need to think
41:10 about your circumstances hello you're
41:13 the politician no you tell me
41:16 no I seriously this is how nice people
41:19 like your you know uh you know no
41:21 because we hear that um and I mean like
41:24 after you hear it many many many times
41:26 almost it's you're programmed to think
41:28 that way and I think it's like you know
41:30 whenever we keep hearing oh Singapore
41:33 especially in the media scene like you
41:34 know Singapore is a small country you
41:36 know if you want to make movies you have
41:38 to make it in mandrin because the
41:40 Singapore market is too small I hate
41:41 that kind of stuff but being in media
41:43 for so long yeah and there's there's
41:45 certain truth to it but also I think
41:47 that is not a good rhetoric to have
41:50 ingrained in us So politically I think
41:52 now we hearing it so many times Every
41:54 politician that goes on every podcast
41:56 they're saying the same thing It's
41:58 uncertain So it's almost I think people
42:00 are getting used to it that oh it's
42:01 uncertain That's why there's no
42:02 concerted vision But what you're saying
42:04 is that no like we need all the more we
42:06 need Yeah Yeah That's what I'm saying I
42:08 mean because things are uncertain we
42:10 need to be more certain You don't come
42:13 and tell me you're just riding the wave
42:14 of uncertainty along with me
42:18 It's a future compact you know Singapore
42:20 we all so we're all uncertain they elect
42:23 you for what
42:25 I mean know I mean so so you know that
42:27 sentiment like how much of it is kind of
42:29 like um impacted also by now I mean
42:32 let's go to the NRIC debacle you know
42:34 which was kind of I mean when we were
42:37 covering it it did feel like wow this is
42:38 this is a screw up um does that affect
42:42 this uh your perception that there's no
42:44 concerted vision like or is that you
42:46 think it's just a one-off A small part
42:48 of government that Well I thought it was
42:50 a one-off I mean I I thought it was a
42:53 glitch I tried my level best to get them
42:56 to fix the glitch Then I realized that
42:58 it was maybe not a glitch Oh my god You
43:01 know then you the only thing that made
43:03 me think is that my god you must be
43:05 quite out of touch Huh i mean if you
43:07 don't think this is a glitch and it is
43:09 actually something we wanted to do you
43:10 know just you morons didn't realize that
43:13 this is the way we should go you know I
43:15 mean out of touch and for people who
43:18 might still be unaware I I don't think
43:20 so but uh it was your Facebook post that
43:22 that kicked off everything Yeah So you
43:26 broke in some way you broke the news
43:28 Broke the news Yeah Yeah I guess I did
43:31 but actually I wrote it after I got so
43:36 angry with you know how how how the
43:39 feedback was being treated you know and
43:42 uh and
43:43 then to have it like you know I remember
43:46 the last line that was given to me uh in
43:49 the letter was the this case is now
43:52 closed I'm like I mean this is before
43:56 you know the whole thing came out in the
43:58 public eye you know we consider this
44:00 case close I'm like what the you know so
44:02 that's when I wrote it Yeah So you know
44:05 some people say why can't you be a good
44:07 citizen and don't say a word no because
44:09 this is I said I was being a good
44:11 citizen but apparently I'm wrong Yeah
44:14 Yeah But were you surprised by the
44:16 reaction which reaction as in how fast
44:19 it spread oh yeah I was so wow It was
44:22 mindboggling Totally I mean you know I
44:25 was distributing my book around that
44:27 period No where when fell What the
44:29 number of people who came up to say
44:31 thank you and thank you and thank I was
44:33 like my god I didn't realize he had so
44:35 much traction
44:37 Yeah People actually came to thank me
44:40 People came to talk to me about it They
44:42 were giving their views on what the
44:44 press conference said what the
44:45 government said I didn't realize it was
44:47 so big So so the press the there the
44:50 different parts to it There was the
44:51 press conference there was the
44:52 clarification in parliament via speeches
44:55 from the ministers like what I mean even
44:58 through that whole process I felt uh not
45:01 as consistent in terms of messaging that
45:03 I felt that they were doing But how do
45:05 you feel about watching the press
45:07 conference seeing essentially two
45:09 ministers uh and apologizing the three
45:13 sitting there and apologizing right and
45:15 and yeah I tell you right from the
45:18 beginning I knew it had to do with the
45:20 word mask
45:22 Right from the beginning what is masking
45:24 what is unmasking what is partially mask
45:27 oh my goodness You know you your
45:29 definition of terms already not not very
45:32 good In fact after that press conference
45:34 still not clear
45:37 you know I mean I see Injani Raja
45:39 stumbling over mass unmasked and
45:40 partially mass and no whatever okay you
45:44 know I what my
45:47 impression sorry what's your what's your
45:50 question uh what your what what do you
45:52 feel about the press conference and how
45:53 they handled the Well first of all their
45:55 first press statement was really crappy
45:59 the one where they say we were going to
46:01 do it anyway
46:02 That one really crappy People got really
46:05 angry with that The press conference
46:08 came I thought can be sooner but it came
46:11 at least Uh so at least I mean people
46:15 got a bit of p of flesh you know you
46:17 have ministers apologizing here that uh
46:21 and then
46:22 uh after that came parliament questions
46:26 and then the full report right Yeah My
46:31 point about the full report is more a
46:35 it's more political I mean sure it was a
46:38 bureaucratic mix up miss coms and all
46:41 that but to me the deeper point which
46:44 the report did not go into and maybe it
46:46 should not because it's a civil service
46:48 report is how the political messaging
46:51 was so bad That was to me the key thing
46:55 you know when you say political meaning
46:57 from the the office holders Yeah Yeah
46:59 was so bad Yeah You know and what was
47:02 what was bad about it from Well first of
47:04 all you don't tell citizens this
47:07 actually not so valuable h after years
47:10 of saying that it is And do you have any
47:13 idea how much pride people take in their
47:15 ping IC
47:17 you know I mean when you say are you a
47:19 Singapore I hold pink IC I hold red
47:22 passport That's true These are
47:24 identifiers you know M so please don't
47:26 uh cut out my perception of these
47:31 identifiers Now of course you can say
47:32 your IC is different from your number IC
47:36 number Hello you want to split hairs
47:38 about these things That's not how people
47:40 see it These are things that sacred to
47:42 me Yeah It was quite irritating also
47:45 when some people spoke to us They're
47:46 like telling us oh you know last time I
47:48 joined lucky draw I just throw my icy
47:50 into a bowl and everything That was like
47:52 that's last time you know But now like
47:54 you said pride like even uh when when
47:57 you go NS and all they ask you to shout
47:58 your N you know as a key identify who
48:02 you are before you like jump off a cliff
48:04 or absale down a cliff So it's a very
48:06 big part of your identity Yeah it's a
48:07 big deal you see So then of course if
48:11 you try to explain it in terms of
48:12 identification and authentication
48:17 you know I'm like oh dear you know you
48:20 cannot so so in your mind right because
48:24 to me um the more years the government
48:27 spends in you know comms and social
48:29 media feels like yes I know there's a
48:31 lot of new media but it feels like there
48:34 coms sometimes it's it's mindboggling
48:36 you know um and and why do you
48:38 that is happening like the I can tell
48:41 you the disconnect Yeah
48:44 I Yeah I tell
48:45 you Okay How to say this you know if
48:50 they say things like that the normal way
48:53 is for the media to enter the picture
48:57 and they say but don't you think what is
49:02 no and then you will start thinking
49:05 again Yeah from the politicians
49:07 perspective they will have to rethink
49:10 they will no I mean sometimes right you
49:11 say something and say are you sure is
49:14 this what uh so you're telling me this
49:16 right confirmh and then you start
49:19 thinking right uh and then you will
49:22 start modifying your your your statement
49:25 or whatever on the spot right
49:27 you don't uh give me a press release and
49:30 I just bloody run it right uh and if I
49:33 do ask you questions and then you may
49:35 say okay can you please at this point
49:37 okay I okay to answer this question you
49:39 know so there will be changes so
49:42 somebody is doing some filtering
49:45 uh so maybe people will say well
49:48 government screw up we should just show
49:49 it in all this screwed upness you know
49:52 but I don't I'm not social media is that
49:54 way that means you know you parrot
49:56 whatever is bad and you parrot whatever
49:58 you think is good you you need to have
50:00 some presence in it as well you know so
50:04 if you think that hey this is not on you
50:07 know uh what do you say to people who
50:09 will say this but if you say run it and
50:12 you run it and it's so screwed up and
50:15 that's what you get I mean in some way
50:16 what you're saying is like by pushing
50:17 back and challenging it results in a
50:19 better better coms yes it results in
50:22 better coms you know so like I like
50:25 sometimes I I ask yeah but you remember
50:28 this or not that time this is oh yeah
50:30 you know and then you know then the tone
50:32 will change you it's like a bit of
50:34 feedback mm M but okay if you want to
50:37 like okay you just tell me what you want
50:38 to say and I just run then you know
50:41 parrot law just basically take recorder
50:44 just put on and and that you think is
50:46 your job yeah I mean I guess not so sure
50:49 even between us if like I have an idea
50:51 for a video in my mind it might be great
50:53 but when I tell you you might say that's
50:56 badpect and it makes me rethink the
50:58 video idea which results in a better
51:00 video so you know so if the whole
51:01 government thinks one way but then the
51:03 whole government wants to
51:05 to somebody and there's some an
51:06 interface of some sort so somebody is
51:09 there to say oh maybe no
51:12 I mean it's just like one party
51:14 government right I mean you know now uh
51:18 free elections all that people are
51:20 saying will be freak election opposition
51:22 wipe out and all that uh two party
51:24 system or whatever it is you know I mean
51:27 I was reading on Kang right I mean I
51:30 lied the manuh he said about how pap you
51:34 You don't want to paralyze the
51:35 government Yeah You don't want the
51:36 government to be paralyzed So you know
51:38 okay So you think gridlock know like the
51:41 US and like gridlock of some sort US
51:46 through the previous administration So
51:48 so you know but the thing is you also
51:50 don't want you don't want paralysis but
51:53 you also don't want one group of people
51:57 able to push through everything you know
52:00 So it cannot be between paralysis and
52:03 between you know a go ahead everything
52:06 goes kind of thing you know So so he's
52:08 he's right to say there must be an
52:09 equilibrium
52:11 right I frankly think we need strong
52:13 government Yeah So what is the concept
52:17 of strong government I think a strong
52:18 government means that you remain
52:21 government with maybe 60 70% of the
52:24 votes Yeah Or 60 70% of the seats But I
52:28 would like uh you to have a s like us to
52:32 have a substantial opposition for checks
52:34 and balance because really you cannot
52:36 check and balance yourself If you check
52:38 and balance yourself uh you wouldn't
52:40 have come out with that stable on ISIS
52:43 Okay Yeah Somebody would have said uh
52:46 you sure we should put it this way Uh
52:49 somebody would have said something Yeah
52:51 So you know so I I think we need we need
52:53 some opposition to come out and saying
52:55 some things M so so I mean on that note
52:58 like what what do you think the
52:59 opposition needs to do uh at this point
53:02 to to be as successful as they can be
53:05 cuz you know I mean EBRC report the
53:07 electoral boundaries have been redrawn
53:09 there's already a lot for them to do but
53:11 in terms of storytelling coms presence
53:14 okay I tell you what I'm sure people
53:15 will be very unhappy with me but I will
53:17 say this yes I think the mosquito party
53:19 should all just go away mosquito party
53:22 the smaller one smaller the smaller
53:23 opposition you know I
53:26 Some of them I have interviewed in my
53:29 rookie days Okay You know how old that
53:32 is Okay So they grow old with me I
53:34 retire already I mean so no I mean I
53:39 mean you're basically muddying the whole
53:40 picture Uh if it's already the case in
53:45 the past few elections that you are not
53:47 gaining traction Yeah You know so what
53:50 are you trying to do m uh al so so leave
53:54 it to the bigger boys no or go and help
53:57 the bigger boys do something or whatever
53:59 or just stay out the fray or go be an
54:02 NMP
54:05 but you know like in the last election I
54:06 think Red Dot United was formed because
54:08 PSP it was from PSP Yeah Yeah Because
54:10 they wanted to contest in an SMC that
54:13 was going to go uncontested SMC or PSP
54:15 against Starman Yeah
54:18 In they formed three weeks before the
54:20 election It was a new party Yeah But now
54:22 now they're couple hundred couple
54:25 hundred volunteers and all that Yeah
54:26 Yeah They're still going So in that case
54:28 do you think that's a benefit that if
54:30 Tama was going to and his jersey were
54:31 going to run uncontested at least having
54:33 some opposition uh even if it's a new
54:35 party formed 3 weeks before the election
54:37 it's still better than so you want all
54:38 seats contested You saying that all
54:41 seats should be contested in some way
54:42 like what you're saying uh for the coms
54:44 or NRIC because there was no contest or
54:47 push back It went out very like I see I
54:50 see GC Yeah So would it would it force
54:52 GRC's to sharpen their otherwise it's
54:54 just a walkover it's a bit easier True
54:56 True I mean I I think there should be
54:58 contests everywhere because it will also
55:00 keep incumbents on their toes Yeah Right
55:02 But mosquitoes mosquitoes keep you on
55:04 your toes
55:07 But I tell you mosquitoes should get out
55:08 when there are bigger fish
55:11 I mean you know don't don't don't I mean
55:14 frankly speaking okay I you can stay on
55:17 It just makes it more exciting and
55:18 livelier But you know I'm I'm I think
55:22 you should consider what it means for
55:24 you Basically you're not going to get
55:26 very far But okay if you want to do this
55:28 public service for me go ahead I mean I
55:31 remember you talking about fight with
55:33 Tan right
55:34 I don't know whether you remember this
55:36 Sorry This oldtime there was one time
55:39 workers party sent the suicide squad to
55:42 Angokio GRC Yeah Uh hey they didn't do
55:47 badly you know I mean you know I think
55:50 they didn't lose the election deposit
55:52 They didn't Okay Yeah So sometimes you
55:54 want you have to get 20% Is it no Oh no
55:56 Less less Less less Yeah So you know so
55:59 they didn't do too badly you know and
56:01 people were quite surprised you know and
56:03 I mean that must have given the prime
56:05 minister a bit of a shock Daman was more
56:07 popular than him you know So okay I
56:11 think these things are all right And
56:13 then you you have a contest it keeps you
56:15 on your toes So yes good you contest
56:17 every GRC Uh but also think about
56:20 muddying the waters M So then what would
56:23 be like uh things the bigger parties can
56:26 do different from what the bigger
56:28 parties can do
56:30 You know actually I'm quite gratified
56:33 that the workers party the PSP and even
56:35 the STP even is not in not in parliament
56:39 They do have some policy ideas Of course
56:42 they always get shot
56:43 downh they seem to be making an effort
56:47 to think something true you know so that
56:51 is a damn good start of course you know
56:54 so in the past when the PB can say you
56:56 got no idea now they have to tell you
56:58 your ideas are bad you know but at least
57:01 for me the voter I can compare ideas
57:04 so it's still for me to to think through
57:06 so I'm very gratified whe they should do
57:08 more of that now whether or not this
57:10 works with the vote voter the ordinary
57:12 citizens I don't know uh so you know
57:16 maybe you know that one you give a goody
57:18 hand out be already can I don't know I
57:21 mean even when when let's say coms like
57:23 should they cuz right now the PP is
57:25 going they're sending a lot of
57:27 politicians out on media platforms and
57:28 all do you think opposition should also
57:30 take that approach as far as possible I
57:32 don't know I mean look at how loy came
57:34 in totally wow I mean I remember I was
57:38 in the newsroom and were like who the
57:40 hell is
57:42 Huh So but that also shows like they're
57:45 working the ground Go back Yeah But now
57:49 with a GRC a bit harder I guess And now
57:51 with Tik Tok and Instagram and the
57:52 expectation almost maybe people don't
57:54 want that mystery anymore They want to I
57:57 mean people like me are dying out So
57:59 okay But you look at even celebrity
58:01 culture right last time I remember
58:02 Michael Jackson was so popular but you
58:04 didn't know much about it Now Taylor
58:05 Swift right people know her relationship
58:07 her ex-boyfriend Exactly Do you want
58:09 that i don't want that But I think you
58:11 imagine we always say that the
58:12 politicians don't want to serve because
58:14 they like some privacy right they will
58:16 never get good people You want them to
58:17 go that way and you probably get nobody
58:19 Yeah I I don't like the idea also that
58:21 there's too much of celebrities or
58:23 politicians on social media But I think
58:25 from their defense of people that we
58:27 have spoken to and asked like "Oh why is
58:28 your Tik Tok account so big?" For them
58:30 it's getting a message across Yes of
58:31 course You get one message across one
58:34 two messages across and that's about it
58:36 Yeah I mean okay Okay The other thing is
58:38 you make yourself a bit more likable
58:40 right uh at least somebody I I like I
58:43 don't know Uh I judge them by what they
58:46 say in parliament sometimes The trouble
58:48 is not many people watch it I know I
58:51 read what they say and all that to see
58:54 and from that I can get a lot more
58:56 things than from a Tik Tok video Yeah
58:58 Yeah Do you get me first of all I know
59:00 whether they got brains So you think
59:02 there should be more public debates like
59:04 Oh I Yeah You know you know the problem
59:06 with Singapore is
59:08 this The only way you get any debate is
59:12 in parliament
59:14 you know and for debate outside
59:16 parliament is practically non-existent
59:19 And what you have are forums and
59:21 dialogues and closed door whatever
59:23 whatever you know thing kind of thing
59:24 You may call that debate but there's
59:27 really no real room for anyone to say
59:31 something that's absolutely different M
59:34 so you know so and you know I'm getting
59:36 tired of you know uh people saying that
59:39 oh we have to wait till parliament then
59:41 we find out we have to wait till
59:42 parliament it's like what is this yeah
59:46 even NRC saga right wait till parliament
59:48 find out I'm like huh everything we must
59:51 wait to is that the only place that
59:53 anybody can say anything do anything
59:55 then the rest of us just wait
59:56 parliamentary privilege allows them to
59:58 you know I don't care I okay fine I mean
60:01 there is parliamentary privilege But I'm
60:03 also thinking to myself first probably
60:06 not urgent
60:07 So you consider a lot of things not
60:09 urgent No need to explain Hopefully
60:11 you'll keep come carry on and everybody
60:13 forget cuz I've seen I mean I think a
60:15 lot of people have seen the clips of
60:16 even Vivian Balaka Krishna as a student
60:19 challenging Oh yeah A great debater my
60:21 time And those sort of forums those were
60:23 televised right yeah This was university
60:25 debates University debates I mean I'm
60:28 watching it I'm like "Oh [ __ ] that's
60:29 cool that there was a tough question
60:32 that was asked but that forum doesn't
60:34 exist anymore." Yeah we don't We don't I
60:36 So as I said we're all very nice people
60:39 No Or very Okay Singapore is too nice
60:42 Really yeah But I don't know I don't
60:43 know whether it's being too nice or just
60:45 wanting to be politically correct or
60:46 simply got no bloody guts No more hard
60:49 truth So we need No no guts Got no guts
60:51 No guts We don't want to rock the boat
60:53 Yeah But but so that's it about the NIC
60:55 thing Do you think that that issue will
60:58 figure in this election like will it be
60:59 brought up as a as a big really that
61:03 means you you started the ball rolling
61:05 Please please I should
61:07 I no I the only takeaway I have from
61:11 that and I don't know how much you will
61:13 figure in people's minds during election
61:16 is the out of touch thing Okay like you
61:20 know I okay maybe I'm killing myself
61:22 here like it's just like the weekend
61:25 when I saw what the Tanjung Paga GRC MPs
61:28 did with the memorial tree
61:31 okay I don't know how the rest on the
61:34 ground thing but I felt it was out of
61:38 touch and tone death uh you know I mean
61:40 so I'm thinking to myself who is doing
61:43 their coms for who is thinking it
61:45 through is this how you want to reach
61:48 your people and know how you want to
61:51 know win friends influence people Hello
61:54 So so that from the NRSC thing that is
61:57 what I will take away the sense that you
61:59 may not know what is happening Yeah And
62:02 what people are saying what people are
62:04 feeling the idea that your identity card
62:08 is not so valuable Your IC number okay
62:11 let's be technically correct Your IC
62:15 just say IC is not important not so
62:19 valuable I think it's really a bit way
62:22 off you know Yeah To say something like
62:24 that is way off No I mean for the impact
62:26 for say someone like Jotio who was
62:28 delivering those messages Yeah that poor
62:30 woman Yeah that one doesn't look good on
62:32 her You know that poor woman I know I
62:35 know I know but you know but what to do
62:39 uh you know you asked about the media
62:41 budget debate had one query only from
62:44 Pam who did not do much followup about
62:46 the state of the media KPIs and all
62:49 right ah you know and that was it and
62:51 then she goes around saying oh we have
62:53 different ones for different whatever
62:55 and all that and nobody asks some very
62:57 basic questions like how many years has
62:59 it been right so you know uh the KPIs
63:03 can tell me or not by now what they are
63:06 know but so everything is just So so so
63:09 vague I mean first of all you know hello
63:13 they still don't have the articles of
63:14 association They don't have a any kind
63:17 of public access to anything even though
63:20 they're taking taxpayers money to
63:21 reporting to only to MDI M I think it
63:26 was better in the past you know come
63:27 under public listed then you know you
63:30 know everybody's salary as well here we
63:33 go gaga over pre Gupta salary or god
63:36 knows who else salary right the OCBC guy
63:38 and I god knows who else and then our
63:41 ministers we don't know
63:45 don't you think we are a weird country
63:47 the the relationship between like the
63:50 media and the government is very
63:52 interesting so do you foresee yourself
63:54 covering a lot of the elections in the
63:56 runout I mean you recently cover how to
63:57 cover but you recently launched the chin
63:59 and chai chin and chai chin and chai
64:01 Okay Oh chin and chai I've had them for
64:04 a long time but it was text for right
64:06 And and basically it was basically a
64:09 take on the news of the day So it was
64:11 written and only really only people who
64:14 follow the news or follow me can get it
64:16 M true sure So uh so you know I don't
64:19 have to explain and go backgrounding so
64:21 much and it's two characters having a
64:22 conversation with two civil servants
64:24 right yeah so you know so I thought hey
64:27 maybe I can use them as a teaching tool
64:30 uh and you know every year I want to do
64:33 something different you know so last
64:36 year I had my book for example and this
64:38 year I said try to make these two fellas
64:41 educate uh the population on some things
64:45 keep them informed about some things So
64:48 uh got it ready you know worked with
64:50 Cheyenne uh got a couple of people
64:52 interested in helping do some research
64:54 and then we just
64:56 put a domain name and just put it up
64:58 there So it's all proono I I suppose you
65:01 write the script and everything and then
65:03 someone animates it and then they do the
65:05 website and everything Yeah Yeah I just
65:07 post on my
65:08 FB on my Instagram you know you know and
65:11 goes up Yeah And and they they um come
65:15 out how often oh it's up to us Up to you
65:18 all Okay Yeah So sometimes we want to do
65:20 it very fast We can But the longer
65:22 pieces uh that one takes time So
65:26 actually have a backlog I have backlog
65:28 But you see I'm a news person So I
65:31 always try and have to recast you know
65:34 recast the thing right cuz you have a
65:35 lot of info but you have to recast to
65:38 fit what is happening today So that's so
65:42 I look at that Then some when you have
65:43 to write about news you have to come on
65:45 podcast So you got no time to write and
65:46 all All right Yeah I should not come
65:49 again No no no I think it's going to be
65:52 very interesting the next few months I
65:54 mean anything that you are you are
65:56 looking forward to or hoping for that
65:58 comes out in this election this election
66:02 i don't know Uh I I would like to see
66:06 workers party retain their seats Okay
66:10 I think the PSB should get at least one
66:13 seat Elected not not NCMP
66:16 Uh and then then we'll see how they
66:19 perform I mean right now we have what 10
66:21 10 10 MPs 10 opposition MPs in
66:23 parliament So you know another 10 we can
66:26 see how let's say you know 10 what is it
66:30 five plus four plus two I can't remember
66:33 but we say you got 15 people then you
66:36 know we see whether or not they do a
66:39 good job you know coming up policies and
66:41 asking questions and all that then you
66:42 know then we all can all stay back a bit
66:45 and see is this good or not you know so
66:49 I think right now it's a it's kind of a
66:51 it's a watching stage you know for me at
66:55 least I want to watch and see what what
66:57 they up to what they're doing Then for
66:59 voters like uh what would be one thing
67:02 to like one or two things for people to
67:04 think about as they think okay I have a
67:07 template I put up which I'm going to put
67:08 out again about the the questions you
67:11 should ask your MP everybody has a
67:15 sitting MP uh you know and basically you
67:19 go and you ask your MP how many times
67:21 you are in parliament what have you
67:23 spoken out on what is the most thing
67:25 that's happened here uh is there
67:27 anything in the town council report that
67:29 you know you think western should take
67:31 note of probably not uh you know so what
67:34 are the top issues in this constituency
67:36 and then you ask them to fill it up
67:39 yeah you see because I think at the end
67:42 of the day people cannot may not be able
67:44 to grapple the concept of great law and
67:48 partisan partisanship and all that but
67:50 people can grapple with who are you and
67:54 what have you done for me lately and
67:56 what will you do for me mm Mh So can we
67:59 can get that who are you done and what
68:02 have you done for me so you know I would
68:04 say voters should just go uh oh go to
68:07 MPS but don't don't don't disrupt just
68:10 give it to the thing and say okay I hope
68:12 you fill it up and then go off the but
68:14 also since you brought it up also since
68:16 you brought it up you know what you were
68:18 saying is that sometimes people need to
68:20 be have some push back to communicate
68:22 their message So when you saw the MPS
68:24 debacle happen uh because I mean on one
68:27 hand you can understand these are
68:28 passionate youth who care about
68:29 something uh and like what you said
68:32 there's no other forum outside
68:33 parliament to have these debates Yeah
68:35 But you know you I mean basically middle
68:39 finger or not is it just cannot I mean
68:42 they kill themselves with that M uh and
68:45 basically you and you come with mask and
68:48 you wear prayers you know why wouldn't
68:51 anyone think you're up to no good M you
68:54 don't even look as though you came to
68:57 first of all do good you know you came
69:00 like that you know so I don't know I
69:03 mean if I I wanted to speak I mean I've
69:06 gone to MPS sessions about that and
69:09 sometimes even though I raise something
69:11 a personal problem or whatever I do
69:14 engage in a bit of chithat right you
69:16 know aa because you know a big long
69:19 queue so you can raise it there you can
69:21 say hey by the way uh whatever whatever
69:23 you You can do that You mean things like
69:25 POFMA yeah Okay Yeah Cuz MP especially
69:28 if you're a voter is actually obliged to
69:30 talk Yeah So you you can get some views
69:34 across and then if you say hey we should
69:36 talk some more Okay What huh we should
69:39 talk some more later you know Okay You
69:40 fix a time a day We we talk somewhere I
69:42 bring some friends Can what ah or you
69:46 know you just say I tell you what what
69:48 you are welcome to come to my house I'll
69:49 get all my neighbors in Why don't people
69:52 do that they can do that right what's
69:54 what's the problem
69:57 so so there other ways other ways to do
70:00 these things But do you see that as a
70:02 wave of of um people who want to go zero
70:05 to 100 and they Yeah Yeah Yeah I know So
70:07 yeah So it's it's because there's a lack
70:10 of what you call civic participation
70:13 Uh I mean what do we have our workers
70:17 are represented by the NTU our
70:19 grassroots by the P you know and then uh
70:24 even consumer groups is case headed by
70:26 an MP
70:28 So you know a lot of big avenues are
70:31 closed off already Yeah Yeah So you know
70:34 you talk about civil civic rights then
70:36 you have okay aware uh maybe one uh
70:40 Singapore the the Cas the Cas people uh
70:44 for investors and then beyond that death
70:47 penalty groups hello already almost like
70:50 that already you know they so what what
70:54 what other real platforms do you have so
70:58 they tell you political parties so again
71:01 now you keep everything within have to
71:03 wait for parliament Yeah Wait for
71:05 elections for volunteer and everything
71:07 which is dangerous But but I I did just
71:10 also following up on that like what do
71:13 you hope that journalists will do more
71:15 of this general election what should
71:17 they be looking to cover that you feel
71:20 that is not adequately covered frankly
71:23 over the past two three years what has
71:25 not been adequately covered is cost of
71:27 living Cost of living Yes Mhm Because
71:30 when you read about cost of living it's
71:32 always about your CPI household
71:34 expenditure right it's all the stats
71:36 that's part that's officially produced
71:39 Yeah Right Uh and then beyond that you
71:43 really don't have any ground reporting
71:45 Like for example you know GST was raised
71:47 twice right tell me have you seen
71:49 reports on the impact of GST after they
71:51 raised it first time and second time
71:53 nothing H
71:55 nothing So so now suddenly everybody
71:58 knows it's cost but really what has been
72:00 reported on it
72:02 nothing you know so but instead we are
72:04 they're waiting for people to say ah
72:06 here economy rice store budget meals
72:09 here got vending machine for food hello
72:11 that's not reporting so so you're saying
72:13 that the reporters should should kind of
72:14 ask questions related to cost of living
72:16 in the leadup to election or you think
72:18 just in general
72:19 generally generally there's a lack of
72:22 this reporting so they report what is
72:24 easiest
72:25 You know like $1 million HB flat Of
72:29 course you you report because somebody
72:30 told you the real estate agent is the
72:32 one who gives you the press release you
72:33 write
72:35 So I mean but I don't see them going to
72:38 that $1 million flat Even if the fellow
72:40 doesn't want to talk talk to the
72:42 neighbors talk upstairs talk downstairs
72:45 and say "Are you also going to sell what
72:47 do you think?" Yeah I don't get it So
72:50 you know so it's there's no not much
72:52 value M uh
72:56 you get what I mean but then the during
72:58 the election itself like you said you
73:00 said that it wasn't a lot of on the
73:02 ground reporting uh at least too
73:05 difficult you know the thing is you must
73:07 you want to do on the ground reporting
73:08 you got to do it now cuz once reorgation
73:10 comes out the new cycle will be too
73:12 hectic Yeah yeah yeah the new cycle will
73:14 be too hectic So in fact actually if you
73:17 want to do polling you better poll now
73:19 because once real election comes out you
73:21 cannot do polling Yeah Uh so is anybody
73:24 doing it
73:26 you mean the indicative polling you do
73:29 now because it hasn't come out yet You
73:30 can still do got chance Yeah So the rule
73:33 is they can't they can't touch it if
73:35 once a rid of election of course Yeah
73:36 That's against the law Yeah I can middle
73:40 ground I go and do warning And what what
73:44 did you do exactly we went and asked
73:46 people in I don't know which war after
73:49 the rate of election Yeah I tell you I
73:51 totally forgot
73:52 Yeah About what sort of MP or something
73:55 It's not even a yes no but it was in a
73:58 sense a poll of some sort right
74:02 stern warning
74:04 Yeah We had we we had the stern warning
74:06 from police We framed it up and put it
74:07 in the office
74:11 But I mean you yourself definitely going
74:13 to be keeping tabs on the election and
74:15 sharing your thoughts on on Yeah Yeah
74:17 Yeah I I will I can't help it you know
74:21 And uh yeah I wish I was still in the
74:24 newsroom now I would love to go running
74:28 Yeah But but if people wanted to find
74:30 out I mean if they are not already
74:31 following you on Facebook your Facebook
74:33 page now Chin and Chai which is his own
74:35 website and on social media also So it's
74:38 on Instagram and Tik Tok and all Tik
74:40 Tok Instagram No I tell you what I'm
74:44 hoping maybe you help me is I want to
74:46 tell all the politicians
74:48 uh out there
74:50 if you like me to cover come and tell me
74:53 can I'll go and cover yeah I will I have
74:56 no problem or opposition anybody you
74:58 send me to me get in touch with me I
75:00 will go and do so go and do meaning what
75:02 on the ground reporting or I mean I go
75:04 and talk to you because you see the
75:05 trouble is I can't do on the ground
75:07 reporting on my own I mean that's why
75:10 you have
75:10 resourcees in news rooms which can you
75:13 know so a bit h fict take that's why I
75:17 say if I'm in a newsroom it' be quite
75:18 different I would say go and get this
75:20 get this get this and then you know a
75:22 lot of bodies who can go and collect
75:23 stuff yeah but you'll call out to anyone
75:26 any politician any candidate who's
75:27 running they want to talk to you yeah
75:29 get in touch with me I I will talk to
75:31 you okay I'll write the full interview
75:35 okay great and best way to get in touch
75:36 with you Facebook any yeah they they
75:39 should know how to get in touch with me
75:41 I I mean as you say you know your salt
75:43 If you feel you're worth your salt you
75:45 should know how to get in touch with me
75:47 Yeah Okay Awesome Uh okay cool And I
75:49 mean we have that one segment at the end
75:51 of every podcast which is the show thing
75:53 Yeah So I was like thinking jinging
75:56 right then you want us to go first or
75:58 you got ready oh you all go first I go
76:00 first Okay Okay Okay You have yours yeah
76:03 Mine is a Netflix documentary I watched
76:05 recently It was called American Murder
76:08 Gabby Gabby Patito So there was a case I
76:11 think in 2021 of two hikers or two uh
76:15 people who were living the van life like
76:17 driving cross country in the US and then
76:20 they went to I think uh the Grand Tetan
76:22 National Park and then suddenly they
76:25 lost contact with the family and then I
76:27 think like 10 days later suddenly the
76:29 boyfriend was back home with his parents
76:31 with the van the girl was nowhere to be
76:33 found So so her name is Gabby Patito and
76:35 this was I think I followed the case
76:37 very closely in 2021 Uh but yeah this
76:40 documentary uh is interesting because
76:42 they managed to get footage that the
76:44 girl was shooting of
76:46 themselves Yeah they got the footage
76:48 They interviewed like her ex-boyfriend
76:51 who was she was in touch with and
76:53 various people that were on the
76:54 periphery that I didn't know were part
76:56 of the the whole thing And uh yeah it's
76:58 interesting because it was you really
77:01 see how as a parent you know like when
77:03 your child is in trouble or does
77:05 something wrong there's two approaches
77:08 you can take you know like you do all
77:09 your best to protect them or you you
77:12 know help them cover up the mistakes
77:14 that they made And you know as a parent
77:16 it's it made me just think of it in a
77:18 very different way like oh yeah I know I
77:21 know my son maybe committed a crime but
77:23 what do I do from there you know so it's
77:25 a very interesting explore They explore
77:28 They talk to the parents and explore
77:29 It's just like adolesence
77:31 [Music]
77:33 13y old parents look at the parents the
77:35 grief of the parents and anger Exactly
77:37 Yes So so there's a lot of that in this
77:39 documentary that I found because I
77:41 followed the news a lot but I didn't see
77:42 these aspects of things Is it a docu
77:44 series or documentary like three
77:46 episodes Three episodes Yeah Very easy
77:48 watch Yeah Easy I mean but not like like
77:51 I mean it's very sad when you watch it
77:52 is very sad Yeah But but because I was
77:54 following so closely I was very
77:55 interested in it
77:56 Yeah Okay Uh cool Man my one shook thing
77:59 is I mean it's a piece of news but it's
78:01 almost so ridiculous that you can't
78:03 believe it's news It's that thing that
78:04 we were talking about before the podcast
78:05 about uh the Trump administration
78:08 accidentally texting the war plans to a
78:11 journalist And if if I were to tell
78:13 anyone that there was this chat group on
78:16 a Signal app which is something like
78:17 WhatsApp but a lot more secure
78:19 apparently that this person got added to
78:21 like you know all of us have gotten
78:22 added to stupid WhatsApp groups at some
78:24 point but turns out it was a WhatsApp
78:26 group with uh JD Vance the VP of uh the
78:30 US the secretary of defense um the I
78:33 think like some very high officials
78:35 talking about the bombing of the Houthis
78:37 in Yemen and it was an actual group and
78:40 it was the and it's operational details
78:42 in his operational details and it was
78:43 the editor of the Atlantic Atlantic
78:45 manly yeah and he got added to the group
78:48 and it is ridiculous and I I think there
78:51 were certain quotes even JD Vance said
78:53 something like you know I I'm sick and
78:55 tired of being the apologize what for
78:58 Europe is it for Europe you know not
79:00 doing your part and the Pete uh was like
79:03 you know I completely agree I'm sick of
79:05 this Europe and it just felt like a
79:07 group with friends and a lot of emojis
79:10 thumbs up thumbs down whatever
79:13 yeah and all that yeah and the the
79:16 reporter just say at first he thought it
79:18 was just a so he left um 2 hours later
79:21 the bombs actually hit and you realize
79:23 that and now the White House has
79:25 admitted that yeah it was but they
79:27 playing it off So that is the second
79:28 thing that is ridiculously fascinating
79:30 that they almost saying this is not a
79:32 security ble uh breach um there was no
79:34 confidential info this being blown out
79:36 of proportion Oh my god that sounds
79:37 familiar
79:40 It sounds yeah
79:42 similar so hasn't been an article
79:44 written about it on the Atlantic only
79:45 Yeah Yeah So that's how it broke Okay
79:50 Crazy And it over the past few days and
79:52 you watch it you look at it you're like
79:54 "Oh my god." Um and you hear Trump
79:56 talking about it He's siding with his
79:58 stuff like saying it's a small it's a
79:59 glitch It's a glitch So it's it's it's
80:01 like a TV episode of a TV series about
80:05 uh comedy administration like on V or
80:07 something like that
80:09 It's ridiculous It's ridiculous Crazy
80:11 It's a bit like you a journalist who
80:12 found herself you know in the center
80:14 Okay Okay Enough Enough Enough
80:18 Yeah but that that's my wardrobe
80:21 Oh Iard you know I almost wanted to pull
80:25 that as well but then Okay I go back to
80:28 something more evergreen I recommend
80:30 this book I'm I have been on a horror
80:33 book binge for some time Horror book
80:35 Yeah So to me the most horrific of
80:38 horror books is Tender is the flesh
80:42 Augustina Aberate I I don't know is a
80:45 very weird name but really that book
80:48 will keep your eyes open until the end
80:52 It is so really the worst most horrible
80:55 horror book ever What's the premise
80:57 what's the what's the premise gender is
80:59 the flesh Yeah But what what what's the
81:01 setting flesh Flesh Flesh Flesh So what
81:04 uh murder or cannibalism
81:07 Cannibalism
81:09 Oh my god And it's tender is the flesh
81:13 the medium well whatever no so it's I
81:17 don't I don't know it just has when
81:20 anybody asks me which one I always bring
81:23 out this one is it inspired by a true
81:25 story or anything no but I think he has
81:27 shades of you know sorian green shades
81:30 of that inside it I see so I'm sorry
81:32 it's to me I know it's nine I'm sorry
81:36 about the example I g but I tell you you
81:38 want to be short go and read
81:41 how how long do it take you to read it
81:43 very you will not put it down That's
81:46 take only good Wow Tender is the flesh
81:49 Tender flesh And I'm not the only one
81:51 You go online other people is also
81:53 thought of Awesome Uh okay cool Uh thank
81:57 you so much Bera So we'll put the links
81:59 in the show notes Um always good to have
82:01 you back and the next few months are
82:03 going to be very exciting Yeah Yeah it
82:06 will be I guess we can always have
82:07 another sit down again Can can All right
82:10 And uh thank you so much for inviting me
82:12 Well welcome Thank you so much I hope
82:14 you watch you see Chin and Chai Yeah Our
82:17 about us video is I saw I saw us we are
82:20 featured Yeah Yeah we are featured We'll
82:22 put a link to that in
82:23 the cool and thanks everyone for
82:25 listening and we'll talk to you all soon
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