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Forget Houses… Flip Land Instead! ($667K/Month Business)

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Is this the end of traditional real

estate investing? These brothers went

from making no money to $667,000

a month taking advantage of it. I had a

pregnant wife at home and I hadn't made

any real money in years. And you found a

repeatable way to double your money on

every single deal in less than 60 days.

You're talking about a 25 to $100,000

profit per deal. We've flipped land in

over 40 states without ever seeing it.

I'm here to find out how they went from

nothing to making over $8 million a

year. So, how much do you need to start?

>> As little as a few thousand. And nearly

every entrepreneur fails because of this

one simple mistake. Plus, the biggest

lesson they learned from spending a4

million on direct mail.

All right, Dan, Ron, tell us what are we

walking into and how did you turn Dirt

into a $16 million empire?

>> Exactly. So, we have been flipping

vacant land for about 6 years, and this

is one of our first properties that

we're standing on. And this is actually

the only property that we have ever

bought and hold. This land was about 50

minutes from where we live. So, Dan and

I were thinking like, we should just

keep this land. We bought this land for

about $100,000. At the time, it was

worth like 190. But overall, like how we

built um this empire was by flipping

vacant land all around the country,

unused, unwanted, rural vacant land,

then selling it on the market for market

value or sometimes above. out of all the

business models you guys have focused on

or could have focused on, how did you

land on this one, what's your advice to

our viewers?

>> So, for me, I came from e-commerce. I

had a drop shipping store. I had Amazon

FBA. I had a lot of different businesses

before that. And my whole goal was to

get out of my 9 to5. Um, and through

those processes, I've seen a lot of the

pros and cons of all these different

business models that people are looking

into. And then one of my mentors, Joe

and Mike Bruska, they told me about land

and how it's easy to acquire land under

market value. So, I went to Ron. And I

was like, "Hey, these guys are buying

and flipping land. My mentors are doing

it." And you're talking about a 25 to

$100,000 ticket profit per deal. Me in

e-commerce, that's what like you're

making in multiple months. My margins

were 10% net essentially when I was

selling electric bikes. And I saw this.

I'm like, we just need to figure out how

to buy a property for $50,000, sell it

for 100, and we just need one of those

to make 50 grand. Like that's successful

in e-commerce for a whole year. And I

just saw the potential in the business

model. You know how the entrepreneurs

get stuck or people in a 9 to-5 think

about well what business do I pursue?

They get stuck in this paralysis by

analysis, right? Did you guys feel like

you're in there too or were and the

mentor helped you get out of it? What's

your advice?

>> I've been stuck in that before when I

was getting into drop shipping. That's

how I felt. Um but my advice to anyone

else is just pick something, go with it.

For the most part, they all work to an

extent, right? They're business models.

Other people are doing it full-time and

successful at it. Why can't I? So that's

how I started looking at it instead of

like looking at the cons of why it won't

work all this. How can I make it work?

How can we make it work? And I

approached Ron with this business model

and we just really believed in it from

the start.

>> Let's go check out that feature that you

guys talked about. You said you were

building a pond and still working on it,

right? Absolutely. Yep.

>> Right. Let's go take a look.

>> So this is actually a work in progress

pond right

at the bottom. Water will be where we

>> This is the deepest. This is where we're

going to be. You can see the ledge right

here. This 20 ft below. So this would be

the deepest point about

>> just run off from the mountain. We'll

fill this thing up.

>> Yeah. So we hope that's the plan.

>> What's the early days look like? Talk to

us a little bit about the backend story

of you guys starting the business, what

you guys were doing.

>> Yeah. I was 9 to5 working uh sales for

building material. So this was actually

my territory, Northern Kentucky and

Cincinnati metro. So I covered like five

different counties in this area and I

was just driving 700 to 1,000 mi a week.

So I would just listen to podcast,

right? And that's how I got into

entrepreneurship in general. So, ever

since starting my nineto-ive, it was

always, "What's the quickest way to get out?"

out?"

>> Yeah. For me, I was uh I was coaching

college basketball and like I just

wanted a way out. I didn't want to work

for someone else. That was my biggest

thing is like I did not want to have to

go get a job. Early days on, like it was

a lot of grinding with the phone calls,

mail, all these different things. But,

uh it was fun like the grind at the

beginning, getting those first few

deals. It was really it was exciting.

>> And how quickly into the new business

did you guys leave the 9 to5? Totally.

>> We started in December. I left in

February. And then we went 5 months

without getting one deal essentially

until April. But we believed in it so

heavily. We were getting the leads. We

knew it was coming. We're like, how do

we just get one deal?

>> After that season ended in February,

probably around Dan, we went full in

like we were doing it every single day,

8 hours, 9 hours a day, we started

hiring people. So yeah, it was probably

3 4 months in when we knew like this is working.

working.

>> This is one of the few properties that

we're standing on that you actually own.

The interesting fact is you buy 40 plus states.

states.

>> Talk to us about some of the pillars on

how you achieve that. Yeah. So you got

to do your due diligence remotely. So

you have a few different options. You

have real litters, you have drone

photography, and you have just satellite

images and softwares, right? So we use

the LAN port software to really look at

the satellite, the slope, the wetlands,

the AI data that it shows, and we can

get a good baseline of what's going on

in the land just from that, right? And

then you get a drone photographer out

there and we have a set of questions. We

just copy and paste. We make sure uh he

gets ground pictures, he's getting

photos from above. If there's some

question areas like it's wet over there,

hey, get some photos. How bad is it? You

know, is there good access off the road?

Things like that, they do due diligence

for us. Then lastly, if you have a real

relationship, they can go there, give

you all the feedback, and and those are

our three sources right there.

>> Can we go check out more of the

property's features, highlights, anything?

anything?

>> Let's do it.

>> I'll follow you.

>> So, what's special about this property

as opposed to the thousands of other

deals that you guys have done?

>> I mean, the main thing, it's an hour

away from where we live. So, like it's

this is the closest we've ever bought a

property. And the thing about land is it

appreciates pretty much year-over-year.

It's not as volatile as houses. It's

going to go up 8% every year for the

next 30 years.

>> Okay. Do you mind sharing the details of

the deal? What you guys pay for it? How

did how did it come about? Anything interesting?

interesting?

>> Yeah. So, we the guy we bought it from

paid 70,000 for it and that was like he

wholesaliled it to us and we bought it

from assignment cuz we really wanted

this property. Um, and he wanted to buy

and flip it. I'm like, "Listen, we want

this property. What do you need for it?"

essentially. And at the time it was

worth probably about 180 or so. We So he

had it under contract for 70. We paid

him $30,000 cash. So 100 all in and got

a good deal on it. The one we're going

to down the roads listed for 250 about

the same size, but we think it's

probably anywhere 250 to 300. Guys, over

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it. All right. So, you said you

consistently double your money on every

deal. Can you walk us through what the

deals look like these days across 40

states? On average, it buy for 25, sell

for about 50. And like 5 acres was

probably our median acreage we're

buying. That being said, if you look on

uh the last year to two years, it's been

closer to buy for 100, sell for 200, buy

for 150, sell for 300. We've been doing

much more of those. But for the first 3

4 years, 25,000 was the average

acquisition cost.

>> Okay. Is the spread the income way

bigger on the bigger deals?

>> It's much bigger and it's the same

amount of work. But our goal was just to

get out of our jobs at first and we knew

we could do that by buying $25,000

properties and some for 50 and we do,

you know, a lot of those 10 of those a

month. We're in really good shape. Can

we do the same exact business model for

more expensive deals was the big

question. And one year we just put it on

our uh radars. It's like we're only

doing big deals. That's what we're

really focusing on. And that deal we got

a ton of six figure deals.

>> Talk to us about the average time on a

deal. Right. You mentioned 14-day

closes. What about due diligence on raw

land? That's a big risk. How do you guys

decide between risk, reward, etc.?

>> Yeah. So, we have like the marketing

aspect, which we're going to get a deal

or two from every marketing campaign.

That might take an hour, 2 hours. Then

you have the leads calling you back

essentially. So, you send the marketing,

you have leads calling you back. If it's

a single lead, you might talk to them

maybe 30 minutes, 45 minutes. All in

all, due diligence is going to take an

hour maybe. As you get more experience,

it doesn't take that long. You are

calling the county to see what

restrictions. You're reviewing it on a

computer and then you're just making

sure the price makes sense essentially.

Then you're scheduling drone. But hour

and a half, 2 hours maybe for due

diligence. But 5 hours maybe for a deal

and then we're talking about a 30 $40

$50,000 potential profit. It's not a ton

of time once you do it over and over.

You're going to get that time per deal

way down. 3 to 5 hours probably.

>> So from from first conversation to

close, 14 days, 30 days, 60 or on

average, what does that look like?

>> Probably like 3 weeks. I'd say 3 weeks

on average for those, we're really

aggressive with like getting to the

closing table fast. Every day that this

you haven't paid the seller, the seller

hasn't signed the deed, it's a day that

the seller could back out or something

could fall apart on the deal. So, we're

really quick with everything. You still

have a contingency though to back out.

We're offering you a really quick close.

Like our due diligence period is anytime

really before closing. Yeah, we'd have

to pay the title company. We have some

earnest money down with the seller that

they can uh potentially keep. So yeah,

there are contingencies in there where

if we find something from the drone

photographer, we can back out. And the

drone photographer has helped us quite a

few times, like back out of deals last

minute of stuff we couldn't see on the computer.

computer.

>> And the hardest thing is, and the main

thing we're doing there is analyzing the

price because when you're in rural

America, like this property, we have a

comp right there right now for sale, so

we kind of know, but a lot of times 10,

20 m, you might not have any comps. You

might have to go back 18 months. So it's

like a big question of you try to get

the closest to your property in terms of

size, distance, all of that. But the

main thing and the biggest challenge of

the business is actually comping land.

>> How important is the assessed value

then? How how much do you depend on that?

that?

>> It depends on the area. Yeah, virtually

not at all.

>> It might be $14,000.

And then we're getting taxed like $20 a

year on something like this. And they

try to keep the assessed value of vacant

land really low. And it's just not accurate.

accurate.

>> But that's in Kentucky. Some states are

different with how they appraise.

>> Closer you get to cities, the better

that assessed value because they want

their taxes, um, everything like that.

Here, they just don't want people like

for getting foreclosed on. like they

don't want to deal with that kind of

stuff. They want development. Uh so they

vacant land isn't that hard to keep.

It's not expensive to keep.

>> So where are we going next, guys?

>> Going to go up to Cincinnati to our

office and check out our operations up

there. Okay, let's go check it out. Do it.

it.

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[Music]

>> This is your Cincinnati office. This is

it. It is.

>> How long you guys been in this awesome space?

space?

>> Been here about 18 months or so.

>> Yeah, we got a podcast studio here, a

couple offices, conference room. So,

this half of it used to be our podcast

room just here. There's a wall right

here. They just took this out a few

months ago. Um, and we opened it up to

make a bigger podcast space to put two

desks in here and make it really one

collaborative idea. We s Ron and I sit

down, have a podcast, Ben's recording,

Marco's in here. It's just really collaborative.

collaborative.

>> Uh, what was the first deal and how soon

did the second, third, fourth happen and

so on? Yeah. So, our first deal was

actually right here in Weekley County,

Tennessee. This was five acres right

here. So,

>> a bunch of trash.

>> A bunch of trash. That's that's how we

negotiated them down from $15,000 to

five. So, we bought this deal for

$5,000. Sold it for $15,000 in 2 days on

Facebook Marketplace. Um took a little

bit to close obviously and all that, but

we didn't get a deal from December

December to April. And then April, we

got six deals. And then from April to

December, we had 48 deals that year.

That was our first year in it. So, it

was really big to just show the

marketing compounds on itself. You're

getting more calls, you're getting more

comfortable, you have more leads out

there. Just starts compounding. It took

us five months to get one deal. Then

that same month, we got six right there.

>> All right, guys. Blitz time with Dan and

Ron. You guys ready? >> Yep.

>> Yep.

>> How do you sell land that has been

landlocked from access routes?

Landlocked due to nearby development,

something like that.

>> Anytime a property is landlocked, one,

you have to sell it way under market

value. Two, you find access. And that's

what we typically do. We call the

neighbors and we try to buy access from

them. What's your favorite upflip

episode and why? >> H.

>> H.

>> You like the pooper scooper one?

>> Yeah, the pooper pooper scooper one's

interesting. Just like an absurd story.

That's probably my favorite.

>> Okay. What's the best purchase you've

ever made under $100?

>> This whoop honestly. Yeah,

>> that under 100 bucks. I

>> Yeah, it's like 20 bucks

>> for me. Books, learning that kind of

stuff. What's the biggest check you've

ever cashed and how did it feel?

>> About half a million dollars and uh it

was adrenaline rush. It was exciting.

>> Uh what's the most bizarre piece of

property you've ever considered? We've

seen some rural land, but rural rural

Mississippi land like the middle of

nowhere. No cities, no gas stations,

nothing nearby. We've actually bought a

few of those properties. Those are

pretty wild.

>> Did they pan out?

>> Yeah, we've made some money on them.

>> It's just tough cuz it takes so long to sell.

sell.

>> Got to buy, right?

>> Okay. If you could buy land in any

country in the world, what would it be

and why? Where would it be and why?

>> I think it would be like southern

France. I just It's not that hard to get

to. You got a direct flight to Paris and

then it's beautiful rural France.

>> Okay. I like Sweden. Switzerland, like

the prairie and that stuff, the

mountains. Yeah.

>> All right. If your business was a movie,

which would it be?

>> I thought of like in my mind, I like war

movies personally and and shows. So like

Band of Brothers, just seeing like the

they start, you know, off the coast and

they're working their way into Europe

and just seeing the progression of how

they're defeating the enemy throughout

it. I love that cuz that's kind of

business in general.

>> There you go. It is a battle.

>> That's that's that's a rep. When the

first deal started coming in, how much

profit did you guys take in personally

versus just reinvesting it, right? talk

about the delayed gratification aspect

for entrepreneurs and how important that is.

is.

>> You paying yourself early can really

delay the success of your business. We

put 100% of it back into the business,

back into marketing cuz marketing is the

fuel for growing that business. Like one

$10,000 deal doesn't do anything for us

personally and said we need to turn this

into much more. So 100% back into

marketing, back into the business. The

delayed gratification uh I think helped

us scale faster.

>> Yeah, you're just putting more fuel into

the fire. The fire's ignited. We got six

deals in April. We're rolling, right?

We're just like, put all of our money

in. Any single dollar we had, let's put

it right back in. That's buy more deals,

more marketing. And that's how we got 48

more deals that year.

>> What is the one mistake that most

entrepreneurs make? 99% of them.

>> Focus on the things that don't move the

needle. Focus on things that just don't

drive the business forward. As a

business owner, you have to figure out

what drives your business. And you don't

know necessarily at first, but for us in

land investing, it was the marketing,

choosing a market and just getting your

mail and your marketing out because

that's how you get leads, right? That

was the most important thing in this

business. But every business is a little

bit different with what drives the

business forward. Some people are so

focused on making their website look so

pretty and all these other small things

that don't really increase sales, right?

You just have to look at what's going to

increase your sales and profitability

and focus on those things. How do you

guys manage marketing with every other

hat that you have to wear on early on as

a business owner?

>> I think the biggest thing is just being

on a schedule. We've said it a few

times, reiterating it, is just being on

a marketing schedule. So, for example,

sending it. I used to like to send my

mail every Monday morning before I did

anything else. So, my mail goes out

whether it's 2,000, 3,000, 5,000 mailers

every single Monday. And that keeps

consistent deal flow. And it's you need

to do this. It is such an important part

of the business. you just cannot do

anything else that Monday or I couldn't

do anything else that Monday until I got

the marketing out.

>> It's just about the awareness of what

drives the business forward and knowing

what drives it forward. We know we have

to put all our emphasis on that so you

can't miss it or else like I said the

business just stops.

>> What do you guys use to identify

properties, analyze them, give us an

example? What do you use?

>> We use Land Portal for almost everything

we do. Building a list, reviewing the

deal and the due diligence on it,

sending out marketing, things like that.

But we can actually pull it up. We're

going down to 44 acres here soon in

Grant County, Kentucky. We can pull it

up. I'll show you right now.

>> Yeah. So, this is the 44 acres we're

going down to. And on this property, you

can see the slope on here as far as it

contour lines. We can hit 3D and see how

sloped it was. We talked about the

slope. Um, but yeah, this property, you

can see how sloped it is off the road,

everything like that. And that's kind of

the beauty of using a software like

this. We talk about computer due

diligence. This is what computer due

diligence looks like to us before we

actually go see a property or send a

drone photographer to a property.

Wetlands, FEMA, you can see all the

creeks, everything like that. Yeah.

Buildability overlay. So, it's actually

going to look So, what it's going to do

is actually look for buildable spots on

the land. Um, which is all AI driven in

terms of this. And it's looking for

buildable spots. Um, this is a very slow

property on this northern part. I don't

think I found any.

>> Now, we're going to visit. Yeah, it

didn't find any buildable spots up here really.

really.

>> You can see the one down here where the

house is. It circled that. Oh, it did.

Okay. We're going to go see this

northern parcel, though. This was

actually subdivided off and sold

separately. This is the 44 acres that's

for sale. You can see it listed on

Zillow as well here for $250,000.

>> Gotcha. I mean, it's one of the most

important parts of what you guys do is

analyzing the property, right? So,

having the right tools is absolutely

100%. And it also has things like uh

comp reports and where it's you go to a

estimate for land, it's not going to be

accurate because it's developed for

bedrooms, bathrooms, square feet, that

type of stuff. So, how many floors it

has. This is for land specifically. So,

it looks at the features of land, the

slope, the wetlands, all of that stuff.

And then those comp reports based on the

data. By the way, guys, if you want to

know more about land flipping, Ron and

Daniel put together a free master class

on how to start a profitable land

flipping business from scratch. So,

check out the link in the description to

get access. All right. Well, let's go

check out this property. Show you guys

on the ground how to do a little bit of

due diligence, get dirty, and get some

ticks on our feet. >> Exactly.

>> Exactly.

>> That was quite the drive.

>> Yeah. Let's check this property out. 44

acres here.

>> So, this isn't your property. This is

again what we discussed. You're looking

to purchase it.

>> Yes. It's only a mile away from ours.

Same size. Know there's a pond. It's for

sale for $250,000 right now. You have

over a thousand feet of road frontage

here. So there's it comes from the peak

up here, which is its highest point,

dips down into a valley, and then on the

other side comes back up to another peak

where you could build on and get a

little more privacy. On the second peak,

>> you split these things up into more density.

density.

>> We we do that a lot with our investments

in general. It's called minor

subdivisions. So yeah, especially in

rural America, there's not a ton of

restrictions on how many times you can

split it up. You think this 40 acres

probably make four or 10 acre parcels or

do five acre parcels, but we do that all

the time. So, what's the secret to

evaluating a property's potential? Walk

us through the key aspects.

>> Well, you want to make sure all the

attributes are good. So, you want the

road access. You don't want it to be

wet. You don't want it to be too slope.

That's my main question for this

specific property. Is it too slope? Do

we have enough room to build? And then

we're looking for attributes like

creeks, ponds, and just seeing what

stands out. Making sure it's in a

desirable area is the biggest thing when

you list it. And when you list it for

sale, is it going to sell for the price

you think? That's the biggest thing we

want to look at. And we want to make

sure there's no defects. Like, you have

a torn down barn here. or is that going

to hurt or help a future buyer? So, we

look at things like that.

>> So, once you've identified a possible

deal, what are the important next steps?

First, you do your due diligence, making

sure there's no crazy defects, but the

biggest thing is just checking the price

of the land. Like, what are you going to

buy it for and what can you sell it for?

And you want there to be plenty of

margin because if there are things you

didn't catch or the market's not as

strong as you thought, you want to be

able to drop the price and get more

aggressive and still make money. So, the

biggest thing is comping the land,

checking the attributes, just making

sure it's going to sell. How do you get

the seller on board though, Dan? I mean,

he may think it's worth 300,000. It's tough.

tough.

>> He wants quick cash or he doesn't want

quick cash. Like, we have an offer for

them. It's got to be the right seller.

We do things like double close if they

want, you know, 80% of market value.

Maybe they want 220 grand on a $300,000

property. We can work that out and get

90 to 120 days of the ability to market

it and talk to them and do that. We do

that. We do offer that. But our number

one pitch is let me I want to buy that

for 160,000 sell it for 300,000. You

want the quick cash now 14 days or do

you want it in 90 days and let me market it.

it.

>> When you're doing uh an offer higher is

are you essentially doing an innovation

where you sign a contract and then get

the opportunity to market it?

>> Yes. Exactly. And that's like uh and

then we'll just double close on the same

day, line up a future buyer and ask

them. We be we're very transparent with

the seller. It's like listen you didn't

want the 14-day cash. I can still pay

you 150 grand for that property. I'm

happy to do that right now. That's my I

I'd rather do that or give me 120 days,

we'll get an ovation and I would try to

line something up so I can get you that

220,000 you're looking for.

>> So, what part of the process do people

mostly get stuck on?

>> Yeah. So, analyzing the price of the

property, it's difficult with land

because there aren't always comps right

nearby. So, they might come up with a

price of, yeah, they think it's worth

$300,000, seller wants 250. Like, you

got to go back to the seller and try to

negotiate. So many people get cold feet

around negotiating with the seller,

telling the seller like, "Yeah, I can't

offer you that. I can offer you 170.

It's a hard conversation, but being

willing to have those conversations

makes you so much more money in the long run.

run.

>> All right. Do you guys mind if we go

check out the barn?

>> Let's go take a look.

>> Close. Are we okay with that?

>> Yeah, let's do it.

>> Is there anything else important that

our audience needs to hear about what

you're looking for at this property?

>> We're just making sure there's margin in

the deal essentially. So, we want to

make sure this property has been on the

market right now for sale for about 70

days, I believe. So, we want to make

sure we can get it under what it's

listed for, under market value, so that

you know when we go to sell it, we can

make money. So, we want a motivated

seller. So, we need to make sure that

that person on the on the other side

who's listed this wants their money and

wants it fast and they're sick of

waiting. It's been 70 something days. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> Have you ever closed on a property and

realized there's something really

horribly wrong with it? Talk to us about

that story, the lesson.

>> Yes. So, we bought 40 acres down in

Mississippi. It was a little off the

road, but it had an easement, so it had

legal access to actually get back there,

or that's what they told us. So, we go

to sell the property. We bought it for

like $30,000. We go to sell it for

$80,000. We have someone under contract.

They're like, "I want a survey first."

We get the survey and then the

surveyor's like, "This is broken access.

This property does not have legal

access." So, we tried to find a way to

get legal access. We couldn't figure it

out. That buyer backed out for $80,000.

We ended up selling for like 35 grand,

but it was something that cost us

$40,000. We were told on the front end

it had legal access, but once that

surveyor got an official survey, we

found that it didn't.

>> So, you didn't do the due diligence.

Didn't verify the easement?

>> We did. something you guys are doing now

because it's going to cost you or it's

just a risk of doing what you do.

>> So, we went through the title company

and we actually got insurance on it

having access like they insured us. I

get had access but if we go through an

insurance claim all we do is get our

money back essentially for the property

which is the same we got anyways. We

don't usually get surveys before we buy

properties. That would be the only way

to find this out. But surveys take like

you said 6 8 weeks and they back up

closing too much. So, we trusted the

title company. Unfortunately, we got

burned a little bit on this one. Uh but

it was definitely a learning lesson. How

do you do due diligence remotely? What's

the most important thing out of all the

important pillars?

>> With the mistakes we've made in the

past, we've really learned you got to

talk to the officials in the actual

counties, in the cities, talk to them

about your land. You're looking for

zoning restrictions. Can you put a

building on it? Can you put a mobile

home on it? Because there's a lot of

restrictions you have in certain areas

that tell you you can or can't do

something. And that can kill the deal.

Absolutely kill the deal without you

even knowing, right? And then you're

just looking for other things from the

county, making sure uh you can get like

septic and different utilities out there

and electric. So, it's more picking up

the phone, calling the people in the

actual area to limit your risk in the future.

>> Did you guys know anything about

buildable land or soil when you first

got started?

>> No. Didn't know anything about dirt in

general, like across the board. I knew

you probably needed a flat area in my

head to build on or like something

somewhat flat, but that's the extent

that I knew. And then you just kind of

learn and you get it and you get

properties under contract and you're

doing the due diligence yourself just

listening and watching YouTubetubes and

you just pick it up over time. It's not

that complicated.

>> I remember when you called me and

mentioned land flipping like let's do

this. Uh I remember getting on Zillow

and just like filtering a land. I'm like

I don't know what I'm looking at. I

remember how confused like everything

that I was looking at cuz I was in Ohio

was like farmland and stuff like that.

I'm like that doesn't make sense. Like

how do you do that? Like it's a very

vivid memory for me. What's been the

biggest resource earlier on to actually

get caught up and understand the

business, understand the industry?

>> Networking I think was big like Dan said

with his mentors were really big as far

as learning from them. Just there's

online resources where you can review

contour lines, you can look at different

pieces of land and like every day we

just got a little bit better and then

after 5 6 years like okay we've come a

long long way from where we were on that

day. It just it's slow build honestly. I

didn't feel comfortable reviewing land

after 2 months 3 months. It's like it

took 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 months to really feel

confident with reviewing land.

>> So, if you guys were starting today from

scratch, zero capital, what would the

first three steps be to to get going?

First thing you do is you analyze a

market and you choose a market. Right

after that, if you have no capital, you

can't send out mail. Mail's expensive.

Texting is even pretty expensive these

days. Pick up the phone, you start

calling. So, you got to get a list from

that area of all the property records uh

of vacant land, which is all public data

from the counties, right? You get that

list and you start calling them. and you

want to acquire their land, you got to

third, you got to get offers in their

hand. So, you got to come up with a

price that you're comfortable with when

you're talking to them. But on that

first conversation with them once you

call them, you're just trying to gauge

are they interested seller and is the

land worth buying essentially and then

gauge them yes or no and qualify the

lead on the first step.

>> Who would be the biggest resources

initially on like a realtor or a title

company for information? Let's say you

don't have access to apps, subscriptions

to get data. What are some free avenues

real quick to go to?

>> Uh county tax assessor has all the list.

So you call them, you can call them. You

should get sometimes it depends what

county you're in. Sometimes they'll send

you a zip file or like the old I don't

even know what they're called and you

can't decrypt it. Um but yeah, the

>> floppy disclos this is all public

records. You're in America, right? You

can type in this person right now and

find out their mailing address and you

can go to the county and you can get

their mailing address. That's more one

by one than pulling a bulk list or you

can say give me the list of your whole

database and the tax assessors and

they'll actually give you the whole

database of the all of it. But then you

need to sort through it. So more of a

one by one approach. you go to the

county tax assessor online or the GIS

map and you can look at individual

properties and get the mailing address.

What is the most underrated benefit of

land flipping?

>> Yeah, I think the biggest thing is like

when you get a land deal under contract,

the seller might live a thousand miles

away and like the deals are simpler

because you don't need someone to move

out of their house. If you're house

flipping or house wholesaling, like that

seller has to move out at some point.

You don't have to deal with analyzing a

structure. I just need to look at the

raw land and make sure nothing's too

crazy about it. It's good land. So the

ease of analyzing it, I think, is why I

love land flipping so much versus other

real estate where you have to look at

structure, plumbing, electrical, and

then even after you buy it, you you get

burned a lot in structures cuz you don't

know everything. You don't know what's

behind the walls. So land the biggest

benefit in my mind is it's easy to an

analyze once you learn how to do it.

>> What does climbing the ladder mean and

why is it crucial for especially for

those starting out in in this industry?

Yeah, I think like when you're getting

started in land investing, like the

first stage is like this business model

is for me and making that decision.

Second would be like learning a little

bit, but then like your goal is to get

your first deal. Then you scale up to

two, three, four, five deals. Then

you're making some really good money.

You can leave your job. A lot of

opportunities open up there. But some

people try to skip the first few steps

or they get stuck even like analyzing

the business model too much or in the

learning phase, they get stuck there and

they never actually take any action. So

there's a balance between learning,

taking action, but we really want to get

everyone to that first deal because then

you have the proof of concept that you

really need for this business model.

>> What's important besides patience when

it comes to climbing the ladder?

>> Besides patience, I I think some grit

because you're going to have things come

up. You're going to have some

difficulties in this business come up.

We weren't successful out of the gate in

this business. It took 3 4 months to

really get rolling and then when it did

get rolling like it was a snowball fast

down a steep hill essentially. So need

some grit at the beginning. You need to

be able to go through tough times for

sure and be willing to do that. But

that's probably the biggest thing for my

what I see from successful land investors.

investors.

>> So for every $5,000 that you spend on

marketing, you expect a net profit of

what? 50,000

>> about $50,000. Like we usually 10x our

marketing spend very very normal. We

like direct mail when we're doing

marketing for the most part. Like that's

what we built our business on. Other

forms of marketing that are cheaper are

texting, cold calling that you can do as

well for this business. But that's 8,000

9,000 pieces of mail. All it is is two

deals though. Like that's all we need to

get. So 9,000 pieces of mail, $5,000 of

spend. We're gonna get about two 20 to

$30,000 profit deals at scale. Sometimes

you're going to get a lot bigger though.

Like sometimes you'll get a $80,000

profit deal at scale with how much mail

we spend. We we sent millions of pieces

of mail and that's what the numbers come

out at scale. Like we're going to make

$50,000 for every 5,000 we spend. So it

the the name of the game is just

spending more on marketing essentially.

Like like we talked earlier,

consistency, send your marketing,

spending money, and then following up

the leads. But uh yeah, that's what it

looks like.

>> Yeah. And it's achievable. How do you

define the markets in which to spend

this marketing money?

>> That's the first part of the business.

We call it analysis, right? And uh

analysis and then marketing is the

second, actually sending them out. And

we're looking at things like sellrough

rate. How many 5 acre to 50 acre

properties are on the market versus how

many have sold in 6 months. So you're

just making sure what you're buying is

going to go through. We look at days on

market. It's average property. How long

is it taking to sell? We look at

population density. We don't want to be

in Seattle, Washington. We want to be

one or two to three counties removed

from a city like you are right now from

Cincinnati because then you get the rush

of the people from Cincinnati who just

want to own land, put a cabin on it, put

a future house on it, whatever they want

to do. Just keeps the market open and

the demand really high. The key is the

balance of sellers and buyers. We're not

in the middle of Cincinnati. So, the

sellers are a little more interested in

selling their land out here than in the

middle of Cincinnati. They know they

have something. And buyers, like Dan

said, buyers will come from the city.

Buyers want to own land outside the

city. There's a lot of people with

money, especially since co like there's

a lot of people that are trying to get

outside of city for weekend retreats,

stuff like that. So that's it's the big

balance when you're choosing a market.

Two to three counties removed from a

main metro area is really what we push though.

though.

>> And what's what's the key to your pitch then?

then?

>> Fast cash. Like we give people cash

within 14 days. If they were to list on

the market, it might take 8 months, 12

months. They have to find a realtor.

They have to pay realtor fees. We take

care of all closing costs and we're

going to get you money within 14

business days. So that's the biggest

thing is like we're going to follow

through. It's going to be a smooth

transaction. You don't have to worry

about anything and that's why we can buy

properties at such a steep discount.

>> How big is your team today across uh the

portal, the businesses that you guys are doing?

doing?

>> It's about 30 people in general and

that's throughout all the portfolios

from droners to the land business to our

other businesses, everything 30. And we

have virtual assistants. We have people

uh here in the US. We've kind of have a

combination of inerson and hybrid as

well. What's the most unexpected thing

that you guys have learned from building

and managing a team? I don't know if

it's unexpected, but the interview is

the best uh you're going to see the best

light in that person essentially. Like

when you're interviewing someone, like

you're they're going to be buttoned up

obviously, everything like that. And uh

just having realistic expectations for

employees, trying to build up employees

is kind of the biggest thing that we've

worked on the last couple years. Having

our employees go from a lower level

position, moving up in the manager

position, everything like that. But um

for me, I'm like I never get too high of

hopes for someone because we've had

people with the highest hopes and then

they haven't worked out in the first few

months. So just kind of level

expectations when you're hiring someone,

hire based on your core values is really

big for us. Your core value should be

the opposite of what you hate. So if I

hate people who lie, my core value is

going to be transparency and like being

honest, everything like that. So that in

the hiring process has been huge.

>> How do you guys find investors who are

willing to put in hundreds of thousands

of dollars into a deal? The easiest

place to start is other land investors

because the cycle of land investing,

someone comes in, they want the freedom,

they want the money, they build up some

capital by doing deals and then all of a

sudden you'll sit there and you have 50,

100, $200,000 extra in your bank account

over time and it's like how do you put

that best to use? So you go out to other

land investors who are newer or need

deal funding in general, need their

deals funded and you offer to pay for

them and you do some sort of partnership

profit split agreement. That's the most

common. Other way is uh it's a cheaper

option and it's going out and getting

from friends and families and investors

more like a hard money option. So I'll

give you 15% plus an origination point

or something up front. But the way you

get that it's hard because they don't

know land. So you have to show them your

portfolio. You got to treat it more as a

business deal, make a presentation,

multiple calls. Becomes a sales game to

get those type. But really you just need

a few really really good ones. That's

what we did. We got like two to three

very very good investors for the hard

money side of things. Um, and it's a lot

cheaper than the traditional profit

splits that I was talking about. Then

you just sell their deals really fast

and then they have more money and then

they put more money into you.

>> So from a family investor for example

who don't do land, how do you convince

them to actually get in on a deal with

you? Do you have a personal deal that

you work on you willing to share?

>> Uh, yeah. So our dad became a big

investor of ours. Um, and also one of my

friends became a big investor of ours.

And one, they kind of see what you're

doing and they're building confidence in

you over time because they're not

investing the first deal that we have.

So they see we're kind of building it

up. Things are successful. They see

that. But the biggest thing is I like to

go in very confident because I know this

property is going to buy for 30,000.

We're going to sell it for 60,000 in,

you know, 60 days or so. And you just

show them the history instead of trying

to convince them. You show them the

data. It's like this is what we we're

doing. We'd love for you to be a part of

it more. So

>> the first deal is the hardest with

anybody. Like it's like and then once

they get that return the first time,

like when's the next deal? Our data is

always asking. It's like when's the next

deal? Do you need my money right now?

And then that's that's the question you

get after you really give them a good

return. And it's constant in terms of

like we had so many people who want to

fund our deals because how much return

they get with them. What two-letter word

helped you guys multiply your income?

Being able to say no to smaller deals.

Before we were buying $10,000 deals, 15

$25,000 deals, but we knew we had to do

10 of them to make a $250,000 profit,

right? I knew we could go after deals

and make, you know, 100,000 2000 3

$400,000 of profit from one deal. And we

found out it's the same process. there's

really no more work than the smaller

deals. So, we just had to shift our

mindset, shift our whole business and

our operations, get the whole team on

board and start saying no to the smaller

deals, go after the big and really stay

and the whole idea behind that was just

staying precise on what we wanted at

that time and just changing our market.

>> Probably very tempting early on to say

yes to every deal, right? You want to

get it all,000 bucks there,

>> commercial deal here, this deal, any

deal you'd take at first. And I like

that cuz you learn a lot. But as you're

scaling a business, you want to keep the

team focused and and you get really good

at one thing and it you can scale exponentially.

exponentially.

>> What's the fastest that you guys have

ever closed a flip from start to finish?

>> Yes. So we actually a lot of times we

get referrals from sellers. If we have

good experience with sellers and a

seller referred I think it was a cousin

or something to us, but it was Tuesday

we talked to the seller the first time.

Friday she had $60,000. What's the

takeaway there?

>> I knew the area. We just sold a property

in that area. So that helped. Like I

knew the demand. I knew we'd be able to

sell the property. There's nothing like

I overly questioned. We got a drone

photographer out there, but there's

nothing that like I questioned too much

about the property. Due diligence was

simple, straightforward. I would have

held it up a week, 2 weeks if there's

something I was concerned about to get

those answered, but um there wasn't

anything. So, it was a really, really

smooth process, honestly. How important

is mentorship to your success?

>> That's how I got started in e-commerce.

That's how I got started in land

flipping. That's what we still do today.

I always find someone who's doing what I

want to do, just more advanced, further

along in their path, and mentor under

them essentially. Right now, we have a

guy out in Colorado who mentors us. He

actually owns a supplement company. He's

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Forget Houses… Flip Land Instead! ($667K/Month Business)