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IV Congresso Internacional 2025 | Humanismo, Direitos Humanos e Cidadania - Dia 2

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This content is a transcript from a congress focusing on human rights, humanism, and citizenship, with a particular emphasis on inclusive education and social intervention. It highlights the challenges and complexities of promoting equity, diversity, and democracy in educational and social systems, influenced by market forces, identity politics, and evolving democratic ideals.

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Good morning.

We still have

There are plenty of participants to join

to be accredited for this second day, but

However, let's begin...

our work. We already have many as well.

People who follow us are online. As

He said yesterday, this is a congress that has

the mixed modality, in which there is in fact the

opportunity for many people

to participate. We have among the

participants in this room in person

and online more than five hundred of

participants. Therefore, 500

The number of participants in this event exceeded...

In fact, our expectations are even

We had to change the amphitheater room.

because we moved to this larger room

to be able to accommodate so many people.

It's a good thing that's the case. That means

This event has been very well received and

because of the quality of the conferences that we

We have presented it, and it certainly deserves it.

That it be very well publicized.

This is our second day of work.

Yesterday we had a conference of

Opening with Professor Henrique

Ravieres Dias Gutieres, an excellent and

which received excellent feedback. Yeah, it is

recorded on YouTube, we can go back to

View. Many people asked if

They can view it, they can go back to

to visualize these interventions, such as

all the interventions of this congress.

Today we will also have another

excellent opening conference for the

second day with Professor David

Rodrigues, who also everyone

He knows a lot in Portugal, like everyone else.

We, the Portuguese, know and...

We are accustomed to quality and excellence.

of their interventions. This intervention

Professor David Rodrigues will

mediated by Professor Margarida Belgium.

Belgium.

But just like yesterday, I expressed my gratitude.

to the organizing committee and support

legitimate site through Vanessa and

From Lígia, I would also like to leave a

thanks to other people who

They collaborate on these two days and they are not

less important and are no less

Important, they have given support.

fundamental for logistics and

organization of this congress. A, and are

students, doctoral students and

master's students who are collaborating

Join us in organizing these two days.

and in the preparation for referral to

the parallel sessions. This support is

fundamental and also deserves to be

highlighted. And if you'll allow me to...

Allow me, let me just highlight two here.

people who also symbolize others

students, but the a eh Maira,

Maira,

Maira, I apologize, Maira Félix, uh,

who has been following the room here and that

He will give us the floor, if we

we need to ask some questions to

our guest speakers and also the

Ricardo Bacalhau, in support of eh

computer science which is fundamental for

transmission. live and for

broadcasting this event to the world

whole. Thank you all very much, and then...

I wish you a good day at work. Logo

next we're going to have we're going to have the a

thematic conference on education and

inclusion. Immediately following the intervention of

Professor David Rodrigues with a

communication entitled Education

inclusive, a path of rights and

duties. Thank you very much. Good morning, [applause]

Good morning everyone. It's a big one.

It is an honor to be here to present my

dear friend David Rodrigues, longtime friend

date, since the complicities of

Introduction of Technologies in Education

in 80 from 85 onwards. And now it is too.

in this role, from whom have I learned?

very much in this area of social inclusion and

educational. So Professor David

Rodrigues is a professor of education.

In particular, he obtained his doctorate in

University of Lisbon.

Can you hear me?

No, this is better, isn't it? So I'm going

repeat. Professor David Rodrigues is

special education teacher, obtained the

doctorate at the University of Lisbon and

He taught at Portuguese universities and

foreign countries like Belgium, Brazil and

China. He ended his teaching career in

2015 as a full professor.

He worked on international projects.

for UNESCO, UNICEF, Humanity and

Inclusion, on topics of rights.

Humans and social and educational inclusion. AND

guest speaker in countries of

Europe, Africa, Asia, America

from the North and the South. He published 32 books.

and dozens of articles in magazines specialty.

specialty.

He is the founder of the Pro-Inclusion Association and

He was its president between 2008 and 2020. He is

director of the Inclusive Education magazine

same association. He received in 2017 the

leadership excellence award

international by the Council for Expeditional

Children of the United States. In 2020,

He was awarded the gold medal of

human rights by the Assembly of

Republic. In 2023, it was agreed by

President of the Republic with the great

Grand Order of Instruction for High Command Officers

public. He has been a member of the Council since 2015.

National Education.

So, Mr. Counselor, thanks.

Wow, this is pretty weak.

Good morning.

Ah, that's better now. It's better. Eh,

I wanted to say that the applause that

They hit me, it was for the presentation, because

I still haven't said anything. That question

Regarding the excellent conference, it's always...

an expectation that may not be

It's filled in, isn't it? but it was for the

presentation. Oh, I wanted to, I wanted to.

Greetings to everyone present here.

And to say that it's a great pleasure to be here,

It's a great pleasure to be here, especially because

This is an opportunity we have to reflect.

again on things, to reflect,

to reflect, to think again about the

things and think again about the

human rights, think about it again

Regarding inclusion, it's always a

opportunity. And that's what I thank her for.

organization is organization of this

seminar. Today the United Nations does

80 years old. 80 years old. And according to

statements from United Nations officials

United, the United Nations has never been

in a situation as difficult as this one.

financing problems, problems of

credibility, problems even to

They are able to maintain it as an organization.

Who would have thought? Who would have thought that the Nations

United, as we have always become accustomed to

See it as an icon, as a representation.

of human rights? How do we

We've reached this point where we see that in the 80s

years of the United Nations today, if

Does it really call its existence into question? and the

its relevance. And that's why it's so...

Okay, we're organizing a seminar here.

about human rights. Uh, in this

perspective of resisting, resisting. Today

We're in the re, right? It was about resisting.

Yeah, I also wanted to before we start, huh...

along the same lines as Professor António

Teodoro yesterday when he opened the

seminar, make a reference to

Basically, that's what I wanted to say.

Today's discussion with you was about human rights.

and about inclusion. And speaking of

human rights and inclusion, speaking to you

a little bit, and that's where we're going.

to lead, to lead into the question of

inclusive education.

I only have half an hour, this is good news.

For you. Uh, I only have half an hour to

to speak. And Professor Margarida

Belcior has a guillotine that starts

The 25-minute mark cuts me off at the head.

Therefore, we are confident that this will

Run smoothly.

Perhaps a first reflection that I

I'd like to talk to you, because when

we talk about education and we talk about

inclusion, we often look to

At the micro level, we say: "What is it that

"Is there a problem in education?" And within the

education, we still say: "But what is it that

Do you have a hard time with inclusion?

We often have the idea that everything

It runs perfectly all over the world.

Except for inclusion. Inclusion is the great

problem. If we make a cloud of

words about what inclusion is

the word that evokes in people

It appears more that inclusion is a problem.

Oh, and everything's working fine at your school,

We have some difficulties here. And the

Inclusion, oh, that's a problem.

Inclusion is linked to the problem. THE

The biggest issue is the problem. AND

many times we look at the question

In education, we look at inclusion.

as if that were all, as if that were all.

located in that place. And I liked it,

perhaps, before actually talking about

inclusion, saying that there are other forces

more months, more macro influence

education and what influences education,

Education and inclusion. This is not where

I should carry it, but I should carry it.

Elsewhere. No, it isn't

OK.

And now, yes,

I'm going to talk to you about three aspects that I

I think they strongly influence the

development of education and

inclusion. The first one, first one is without

In doubt, the market, what could we do?

today, to call it something more direct, the

capitalism, the form of organization

economic and even social that we

We find them in our societies. And we

what we are experiencing now is a

perplexity regarding a set of

promises that were made to us and to a

set of realities with which we

we are facing each other. The market

He promised us access to consumer goods.

Everyone will have access to everything, to

consumer goods. Fantastic. It is prosperity

prosperity

at its best. He promised us a

globalization. I mean, it doesn't matter.

whether you live in Africa or whether you live

in Sweden. Everything will work out fine.

Globalization is what we will achieve.

Everyone should have access to prosperity.

And he also promised us meritocracy,

true meritocracy. What is it that

Would this be true meritocracy? Stay

rested, because the people who go

to have access to the places of tupo, to

places of power are, without a doubt, without

There is room for doubt, the people who are

more capable, the people who are more

independent people, those who take more

public service account. These are the

people that capitalism promised us

that were to arrive at the places of rag.

rag.

But despite having promised that, uh,

He took other things from us. He took us away.

many other things. The first is that the

Increased inequality. We don't have

There is no doubt that nowadays the systems

economic and social conditions in which we live

dramatically increased the a

inequality between populations, not only

among the populations within the country, but

between countries, between regions. THE

inequality today has become a

true, a true, a virus, a

A real virus that affects the whole world.

Obviously, the issue of poverty and the consumerism,

consumerism,

our economic systems do not

They managed to abolish poverty, by

On the contrary, eh, as I'm going to show you.

In the following graph, in Portugal, if

if there were no transfers

eh transfers at the level of

subsidies, at the level of all this, we

We would have more than 40% of people living in poverty.

in Portugal. we have 18% or 19% because

There are social transfers, because

otherwise we would have a number

immeasurably greater. And obviously

Yes, capitalism also brought us the

economic disaster. And I wanted to remind you

that not long ago the person in charge

by ecological policies in France

He said something terrible. I say that it is

absolutely terrible. He said: "I don't believe it."

that it is possible to reduce the impact of

climate change within

"economic systems that we have."

Amazing, isn't it? He said: "It's not

It is credible that we can reduce this.

impact within the logic of the system

economic situation that we have, which is very

Interesting, isn't it? Because we have

This idea is always benign, isn't it? What is it

What's needed is to separate the trash, and that's how it's done.

And this will go there. And we are forgetting.

of the big of the of the great photograph in which

It is said: "It will not be possible to take shortcuts

major climate changes, the fatal ones

climate change, without a change

important in our consumption system,

in our production system, in our

political system."

Well, here, we have an idea of how...

Poverty has evolved in Portugal. Us

We are, apparently, downloading a

just a little bit there, especially in poverty, in

intensity of poverty, but if you add them up

those two numbers, we're going to

exactly how to find that. Let's go

to encounter poverty that is rising by 40%. AND

Sad, isn't it? A system that tells us

He promised prosperity if we say

that in 10 Portuguese people, four are poor

and there's no way out of this

poverty without prevalent aid, a

constant and essential to what would be the state.

state.

From an ecological perspective, we also have...

This is the question, isn't it? That after us

if we cut down the entire forest,

We're having a fantastic opening. Us

we are going to inaugurate

a chestnut tree.

It's Chestnut Tree Day. The day of

chestnut. Of course, we before

We distributed 30 hectares of chestnut trees.

But it was necessary. It was, it really was

essential. We have it, but now let's go.

plant a chestnut tree and this

The chestnut tree will truly be the symbol.

of our ecological determination. That's it,

First place I wanted to call you

Pay attention. The market has influenced us.

particularly strong at the level of education.

But there is another issue that concerns us.

heavily influenced, the issue of

Respect for identity. And what is it that

What did identity promise us? Respect

through the identity of people, of groups,

He promised us that we had

knowledge, appreciation and preservation.

That identities were preserved, that

Identities were valued.

That was the promise. But what is ours?

reality? It's because it took away from us the

trust. We live in today's world.

many societies absolutely set up

insecurity in relation to others

groups, in relation to other people. To the

people who say: "Ah, but I don't go out

at night because I saw a car with two

"Black people inside the car." I said, "But

I wasn't confusing the color of the car.

with the people who were inside. No,

There is no fear. What happened? But it was...

Did I see it at midnight? I don't walk there.

Alone, right? So what's going on?

I live in a neighborhood where gypsies live. AND

You can see that, can't you? The next day

There was a person who told me: "No

In my neighborhood, there are families like that.

Gypsy women. "Do you see?" I said, "No."

I can't see anything.

I can't see anything. But if you show a

maybe I can see a photograph. But

this idea of trust, how does it work?

identity, the concept of identity in

Did it undermine trust so much? Identities

Balkanized. This is very interesting.

Yashamk's book, Identity Trap

He says that nowadays we are

in a very curious situation that is us,

In order to recognize identities, we have

Instead of Balkanizing them, we have to isolate them.

And from there he says: "This is a

"trap". Because from the moment

where we say: "Ah, you know, I am

"Very feminist." You see? The

feminists think that, you know I am

in favor of people with disabilities, the

people with disabilities, etc. From

from the moment we balkanized the

identities, we are immediately to

to create an additional difficulty for

there needs to be true inclusion, because

we can only assert ours

identities within a perspective

closed, Balkanized, almost as if

were it a confrontational perspective, a

warrior perspective in relation to

our identities. This is also a

current problem.

Another issue that was created for us

by this crisis of

Identity is belief in freedom and in

responsibility as values

unrestricted. That is to say, freedom and

the responsibility lies with everyone

people, regardless of what it is

a person's socioeconomic level,

regardless of age

person, right? From speaking to a boy of

6 years, so you didn't know it wasn't...

Is it possible to do that? Didn't you know? You don't

Did you know? Masamd, this is a lack of

the responsibility for this falls on a child of

5 years. It's a lack of... And we think, and

This is a neoliberal perspective.

Extremely dangerous, is what we think that the

People are free and responsible.

regardless of the situation in which

they are. Why? Because it's easier that way.

to hold them responsible and blame them

due to their own situation. Why is that

Are you poor? Why are you

Excluded? It's easy. It's because you don't

You make good use of your freedom, you fool.

Not you, so you're a free person, you

How come you don't use yours properly?

freedom? And since you don't use it well

Your freedom, you are irresponsible. AND,

therefore, the blame for the entire situation in

The place you are in is exclusively yours. And for

This means that identity has also become a

big trap.

And I liked, third aspect, a question

also at the macro level that it has

influenced education and inclusion is

this concept of democracy. And you

Just think about one thing, the idea seems

good. Imagine a society in which

It's the strongest who rule. The most

strong. The strongest, that is, the

those who are stronger, who can pack a punch

It will affect the other person's mind if they misbehave.

OK? And these people are few and far between.

They sent many. And the idea was very

good. The idea is this: if I say one

Man, one vote, if I give you the chance.

I will vote for everyone.

plotting against people, these powerful people, no.

and? I'm going to plot against them because I'm going to say,

since they are the majority,

I will plot against the powerful through one manote.

one manote. What an illusion we had.

What an illusion we had. What an illusion we had. We had the

What an illusion we had. We had the The illusion that if people could each

The illusion that if people could each If one of them were to vote, they would vote in favor.

If one of them were to vote, they would vote in favor. for their well-being, they would vote in favor of

for their well-being, they would vote in favor of for the well-being of everyone, they would fly to

for the well-being of everyone, they would fly to in favor of social harmony,

in favor of social harmony, through the end of exploitation, etc.

through the end of exploitation, etc. Therefore, our idea is, if we

Therefore, our idea is, if we if we could get the exploited to vote,

if we could get the exploited to vote, We would have a system that meets their needs.

We would have a system that meets their needs. Because they are the majority. And this

Because they are the majority. And this The promise of democracy, as you know, is not

The promise of democracy, as you know, is not It came true. One second promise

It came true. One second promise The essence of democracy was respect for

The essence of democracy was respect for minorities. It was to say that if we have

minorities. It was to say that if we have a democratic system, therefore minorities

a democratic system, therefore minorities They will be respected. Without prejudice to what

They will be respected. Without prejudice to what I'll tell you next, let me tell you.

I'll tell you next, let me tell you. that this is an absolutely

that this is an absolutely crucial nowadays, because we have the

crucial nowadays, because we have the The idea that democracy is power

The idea that democracy is power of the most voted. It's not just that we say if he

of the most voted. It's not just that we say if he He gets the most votes, what do we have?

He gets the most votes, what do we have? What to do? If democracy is only for

What to do? If democracy is only for defend those who received the most votes and the majority,

defend those who received the most votes and the majority, it becomes an autocracy just like any other

it becomes an autocracy just like any other other. It becomes an autocracy equal to

other. It becomes an autocracy equal to any other. The great, the great ethos,

any other. The great, the great ethos, the great, the great essence of

the great, the great essence of Democracy is about defending minorities. It's us

Democracy is about defending minorities. It's us we can within a given

we can within a given The system knows that there are people,

The system knows that there are people, Obviously, they have legitimacy.

Obviously, they have legitimacy. to get organized and to get things done,

to get organized and to get things done, but that this action by these people is

but that this action by these people is deeply connected to the protection of

deeply connected to the protection of minorities. If democracy does not defend

minorities. If democracy does not defend minorities are equal to everyone else.

minorities are equal to everyone else. autocracy, any dictatorship that we

autocracy, any dictatorship that we We would abhor it.

We would abhor it. And obviously, democracy

And obviously, democracy He promised us the separation of powers.

He promised us the separation of powers. That is, as they say, not to put

That is, as they say, not to put all the eggs in the same basket And the

all the eggs in the same basket And the that we are witnessing, passing by

that we are witnessing, passing by Now, what has been taken from us is...

Now, what has been taken from us is... Respect for minorities has not been...

Respect for minorities has not been... obvious. in many countries the issue of

obvious. in many countries the issue of a person having one more vote than their own

a person having one more vote than their own opponents arrive to publish and to

opponents arrive to publish and to to enforce unjust laws and forms,

to enforce unjust laws and forms, Obviously, democratic oppression. THE

Obviously, democratic oppression. THE oppression was as if the person had

oppression was as if the person had one one a stick that was called democracy

one one a stick that was called democracy a stick. And he hits the other one on the head with the stick.

a stick. And he hits the other one on the head with the stick. person and says: "Here you go

person and says: "Here you go democratic." Do you see? You are

democratic." Do you see? You are I'll take it, but it's in the name of democracy. In

I'll take it, but it's in the name of democracy. In The name of democracy. respect for

The name of democracy. respect for minorities, respect for the separation of

minorities, respect for the separation of powers. When we meet today in

powers. When we meet today in countries, such as Hungary, for example,

countries, such as Hungary, for example, when we pass it is in relation to

when we pass it is in relation to Brazil, when we think about aspirations

Brazil, when we think about aspirations that have other groups that are not

that have other groups that are not majoritarians to become majoritarians, the

majoritarians to become majoritarians, the I'll say any day now I'm going to cancel.

I'll say any day now I'm going to cancel. these judges who think they are

these judges who think they are independent. One of these days I'll go

independent. One of these days I'll go to annul the parliament. Any day now I

to annul the parliament. Any day now I I will be able to do anything that

I will be able to do anything that give me absolute power over

give me absolute power over this. And obviously, one is missing.

this. And obviously, one is missing. One flaw in democracy is that we

One flaw in democracy is that we we believed that it was inviolable, that

we believed that it was inviolable, that there was no way to go back in

there was no way to go back in democracy. And nowadays we are having

democracy. And nowadays we are having It's everyday lessons and several times over.

It's everyday lessons and several times over. day lessons to say attention, it's not quite

day lessons to say attention, it's not quite like this.

like this. Therefore, when I speak to you of these three

Therefore, when I speak to you of these three questions, I'm telling you that there are three

questions, I'm telling you that there are three major issues that influence the

major issues that influence the education and how it influences inclusion.

education and how it influences inclusion. Let's not just think that inclusion and

Let's not just think that inclusion and The schools here are closed, but they are

The schools here are closed, but they are Influenced by this big one, right? what

Influenced by this big one, right? what It has to do with what the market is, which has

It has to do with what the market is, which has It has to do with what identity is and it has to do with

It has to do with what identity is and it has to do with Let's see what the idea of democracy is all about.

Let's see what the idea of democracy is all about. It is in this context that human rights

It is in this context that human rights They develop. Human rights

They develop. Human rights They develop within this scenario and

They develop within this scenario and human rights, even though we think

human rights, even though we think which is a safe haven, they continue to have

which is a safe haven, they continue to have immense, immense, immense attacks,

immense, immense, immense attacks, Even at a conceptual level, right? Us

Even at a conceptual level, right? Us We could think that human rights

We could think that human rights It's more or less like a sacred book.

It's more or less like a sacred book. That no one attacks, isn't that right? You

That no one attacks, isn't that right? You human rights have been attacked by

human rights have been attacked by not being truly universal. THE

not being truly universal. THE People say: "Ah, that's a big

People say: "Ah, that's a big "Conversation." Human rights are not...

"Conversation." Human rights are not... They are not universal. If it really

They are not universal. If it really If they were human rights, they were

If they were human rights, they were Used all over the world. And we

Used all over the world. And we We are confusing here what rights are.

We are confusing here what rights are. humans with what the application of

humans with what the application of human rights. It's something else entirely. THE

human rights. It's something else entirely. THE The second question is that it is said: "But the

The second question is that it is said: "But the Human rights are a Western thing.

Human rights are a Western thing. "And Christian." The next day, I found it funny.

"And Christian." The next day, I found it funny. because in some countries it is said: "But

because in some countries it is said: "But What is this? something to consider that

What is this? something to consider that A man and a woman are equal. What

A man and a woman are equal. What and that? No, they're not. With all the

and that? No, they're not. With all the respect, that always has a part of

respect, that always has a part of Music, from the violin part, right? He has,

Music, from the violin part, right? He has, with all due respect, with all due respect

with all due respect, with all due respect With all due respect, they are fantastic, but

With all due respect, they are fantastic, but They're not, you see? Until

They're not, you see? Until biologically, even biologically not

biologically, even biologically not They are, but it's not the same thing. even if

They are, but it's not the same thing. even if to think about our history and our

to think about our history and our tradition. And we keep going like this,

tradition. And we keep going like this, jumping from one thing to another

jumping from one thing to another saying that it's only Westerners and

saying that it's only Westerners and It's Christians who have this obsession with

It's Christians who have this obsession with human rights. This has been a

human rights. This has been a systematic attack on human rights

systematic attack on human rights also. And there's also a very noticeable attack.

also. And there's also a very noticeable attack. It's interesting that it says: "The rights

It's interesting that it says: "The rights Humans, ah, [laughs] that's a good one.

Humans, ah, [laughs] that's a good one. Ideally, do you know who's interested?

Ideally, do you know who's interested? For human rights? They are the bandits.

For human rights? They are the bandits. The bandits are the people who...

The bandits are the people who... They are more interested in human rights.

They are more interested in human rights. When a person does one, they go right away, the

When a person does one, they go right away, the my human rights right to a

my human rights right to a phone call to my lawyer, no

phone call to my lawyer, no the law. The person suddenly remembers.

the law. The person suddenly remembers. of human rights. This is also a

of human rights. This is also a Slander regarding human rights. It is a

Slander regarding human rights. It is a slander regarding human rights,

slander regarding human rights, saying that human rights is

saying that human rights is conversation about forgiving people

conversation about forgiving people offenders, people who are not

offenders, people who are not using language that you

using language that you They know them, but they're not good people. there is

They know them, but they're not good people. there is good people and people who are too bad or

good people and people who are too bad or less and the evil people and and the

less and the evil people and and the human rights would only serve to

human rights would only serve to People who are evil people.

People who are evil people. However, we have seen that after

However, we have seen that after 77 years old, human rights

77 years old, human rights continue to constitute a

continue to constitute a important hope. They gave instructions.

important hope. They gave instructions. demands of peoples all over

demands of peoples all over world. That is, these claims

world. That is, these claims They end up relying on each other, they end up having

They end up relying on each other, they end up having how tutors of the ideas of rights

how tutors of the ideas of rights humans. They inspired advances in areas

humans. They inspired advances in areas political and social. in people with

political and social. in people with disability, for example, by

disability, for example, by Convention on the Rights of Persons

Convention on the Rights of Persons with a disability from 2007

with a disability from 2007 It draws directly from the Universal Declaration.

It draws directly from the Universal Declaration. of Human Rights. The opposition

of Human Rights. The opposition politics, feminism, LGBT rights

politics, feminism, LGBT rights plus immigrant populations, minorities

plus immigrant populations, minorities ethically, all these populations ended up

ethically, all these populations ended up by benefiting from this fundamental idea,

by benefiting from this fundamental idea, this tutorial idea of the systems of

this tutorial idea of the systems of human rights. And obviously the

human rights. And obviously the rights ended up asserting themselves as

rights ended up asserting themselves as diffuse and unavailable. Uh, when we

diffuse and unavailable. Uh, when we We say that human rights are

We say that human rights are By diffuse, we mean that the rights

By diffuse, we mean that the rights Humans are spread throughout the

Humans are spread throughout the people. We all have human rights.

people. We all have human rights. There are no people who have more, nor less.

There are no people who have more, nor less. Human rights don't deserve each other.

Human rights don't deserve each other. Contrary to what, for example, the

Contrary to what, for example, the The far right and neoliberalism, the

The far right and neoliberalism, the People, yes, there are people, the rights

People, yes, there are people, the rights Humans are great, but it's necessary

Humans are great, but it's necessary to deserve them. It's almost as if it were a

to deserve them. It's almost as if it were a race when you get there at the end. I

race when you get there at the end. I I end up running and saying: "Me, after all, me

I end up running and saying: "Me, after all, me "I deserved human rights." Did I deserve them?

"I deserved human rights." Did I deserve them? Oh, that's great. I ran a lot, but I deserved it.

Oh, that's great. I ran a lot, but I deserved it. human rights. Human rights

human rights. Human rights They are not a merit because they are

They are not a merit because they are diffuse, they are spread throughout the

diffuse, they are spread throughout the people and these are rights that are

people and these are rights that are unavailable in the sense that I don't

unavailable in the sense that I don't I can dispose of the human rights of

I can dispose of the human rights of Others might say: "Look, there you go, today."

Others might say: "Look, there you go, today." You lose that right, but look, it's just that...

You lose that right, but look, it's just that... this week. Then on to

this week. Then on to We'll gather some capsules this week and... what if...

We'll gather some capsules this week and... what if... Gather the 10 capsules for the week.

Gather the 10 capsules for the week. you regain that human right. I am not

you regain that human right. I am not I can dispose of the human rights of

I can dispose of the human rights of others. And more interestingly, I don't

others. And more interestingly, I don't I can exercise my human rights.

I can exercise my human rights. I cannot offer it. I can't tell you

I cannot offer it. I can't tell you My boss, I am now...

My boss, I am now... Retired? No, I don't say that anymore.

Retired? No, I don't say that anymore. But I couldn't tell my boss,

But I couldn't tell my boss, Look, you know, I even work for free.

Look, you know, I even work for free. he knows? I don't need you to pay me. No

he knows? I don't need you to pay me. No necessary. Even for me, it's an insult.

necessary. Even for me, it's an insult. Pay me. I work for free. I am

Pay me. I work for free. I am that. But you are not entitled to

that. But you are not entitled to Receive the salary? I have it, but I'm giving it up.

Receive the salary? I have it, but I'm giving it up. from him. I cannot give up mine.

from him. I cannot give up mine. human rights, and even less so to do with

human rights, and even less so to do with that other people give up theirs

that other people give up theirs human rights.

human rights. and human rights and education.

and human rights and education. First of all, I wanted to emphasize again

First of all, I wanted to emphasize again that education is permeable to everything

that education is permeable to everything this complexity that we talked about until

this complexity that we talked about until Now, the complexity of capitalism, the

Now, the complexity of capitalism, the capacity for identity, the capacity

capacity for identity, the capacity This gives us the complexity of what democracy is.

This gives us the complexity of what democracy is. and the inherent complexity of this debate

and the inherent complexity of this debate that exists within human rights. Eh, eh,

that exists within human rights. Eh, eh, and education has been influenced by

and education has been influenced by This whole situation. But let's see that

This whole situation. But let's see that educational changes were influenced

educational changes were influenced through these debates. That is, how is it that

through these debates. That is, how is it that these debates have reached education and how

these debates have reached education and how That's what we're looking at today. In

That's what we're looking at today. In first of all, this perspective of

first of all, this perspective of The capitalist market, how does it work?

The capitalist market, how does it work? It influenced education and how we...

It influenced education and how we... Are we thinking about this today? We are

Are we thinking about this today? We are thinking the opposite, contrary to

thinking the opposite, contrary to what would the market tell us, that only a few are

what would the market tell us, that only a few are that they deserve, we could also think only

that they deserve, we could also think only that some deserve human rights,

that some deserve human rights, There are also some who deserve it.

There are also some who deserve it. education. So, it's not, it's not difficult.

education. So, it's not, it's not difficult. You have to do the rule of three, right? If some

You have to do the rule of three, right? If some They deserve human rights, therefore they also

They deserve human rights, therefore they also There are some who deserve an education. And the

There are some who deserve an education. And the what does UNESCO tell us in the declaration of

what does UNESCO tell us in the declaration of Inion? It says: "All students matter and

Inion? It says: "All students matter and They matter the same. They matter the same.

They matter the same. They matter the same. Even those who misbehave,

Even those who misbehave, even those ill-mannered ones who called,

even those ill-mannered ones who called, They insulted the teacher's mother.

They insulted the teacher's mother. These people deserve the same as the others.

These people deserve the same as the others. Yes, they deserve the same as everyone else.

Yes, they deserve the same as everyone else. Because once again, education is not a

Because once again, education is not a It's not a matter of merit.

It's not a matter of merit. that it is only a possibility of

that it is only a possibility of I have anything for which I

I have anything for which I I contributed. Second, the investment in

I contributed. Second, the investment in Education is recognized as fundamental.

Education is recognized as fundamental. in terms of public policy. He wants

in terms of public policy. He wants That is to say, we cannot say it like this: "Yes, the

That is to say, we cannot say it like this: "Yes, the Investment in education is only for

Investment in education is only for some countries, only for certain areas,

some countries, only for certain areas, no. Investing in education as a whole is

no. Investing in education as a whole is recognized, which is a question of whether

recognized, which is a question of whether They think very much against this perspective.

They think very much against this perspective. of the market. If we were in a

of the market. If we were in a From a strictly market perspective, the

From a strictly market perspective, the What we would say is that it is necessary

What we would say is that it is necessary fund only the sectors that are

fund only the sectors that are strategic, only the students who have the

strategic, only the students who have the future, only entrepreneurship, only the

future, only entrepreneurship, only the digital technologies, everything that

digital technologies, everything that It sells well. So that's what was needed.

It sells well. So that's what was needed. finance. We know today that

finance. We know today that no,

no, but I've only just started [laughs]

but I've only just started [laughs] It's 5 minutes and still on the subject of the market.

It's 5 minutes and still on the subject of the market. Creating scholarships of excellence is not enough. THE

Creating scholarships of excellence is not enough. THE True excellence is the way in which...

True excellence is the way in which... The most vulnerable students are given treatment.

The most vulnerable students are given treatment. I would like to, since I have 5 minutes,

I would like to, since I have 5 minutes, that this thing might stay perhaps okay

that this thing might stay perhaps okay Highlighted, isn't it?

Highlighted, isn't it? excellence. We have to have one

excellence. We have to have one a different perspective on what is

a different perspective on what is excellence. Excellence for a long time

excellence. Excellence for a long time time was the excellence of some in

time was the excellence of some in some situations, in some places. AND

some situations, in some places. AND nowadays we think that

nowadays we think that Excellence is how students

Excellence is how students Vulnerable people are being treated. Any country

Vulnerable people are being treated. Any country of the world, even the poorest countries,

of the world, even the poorest countries, are able to create pockets of

are able to create pockets of excellence. Everyone is capable of

excellence. Everyone is capable of do that. If you come to the country more

do that. If you come to the country more Poor world, you'll see schools in

Poor world, you'll see schools in that the boys are all in uniform

that the boys are all in uniform with the King's College curriculum and

with the King's College curriculum and All fantastic.

All fantastic. That's not the question; the question is where are they?

That's not the question; the question is where are they? the others in this country, in these other countries

the others in this country, in these other countries Poor? Where are the others? And the

Poor? Where are the others? And the The first question is this: how do we

The first question is this: how do we Do we treat the most vulnerable students? If

Do we treat the most vulnerable students? If If you have time, read a book that...

If you have time, read a book that... I loved reading it, which is about the tyranny of merit.

I loved reading it, which is about the tyranny of merit. by Michael Sandle. Hey, look, here it is

by Michael Sandle. Hey, look, here it is Meritocracy. Look, are you seeing the

Meritocracy. Look, are you seeing the Meritocracy?

Meritocracy? The famous meritocracy. Can you see?

The famous meritocracy. Can you see? that man who is over there

that man who is over there berm? He's saying: "Wow, that's great!"

berm? He's saying: "Wow, that's great!" cyclist! Which one are you talking about?

cyclist! Which one are you talking about? Which cyclist is he talking about?

Which cyclist is he talking about? What a great cyclist! Bravo! Excellent. He

What a great cyclist! Bravo! Excellent. He He's talking about the cyclist who carries the

He's talking about the cyclist who carries the Bananas or the other one?

Bananas or the other one? Who is the great cyclist here?

Who is the great cyclist here? On the merits? Who is the great cyclist?

Identity also gave rise to changes. important in education and inclusion.

important in education and inclusion. First and foremost, it is this recognition

First and foremost, it is this recognition Diversity is not something exclusive to a few. I

Diversity is not something exclusive to a few. I I often tell this story that there is

I often tell this story that there is many years the Globenquiana Foundation

many years the Globenquiana Foundation edited a book called The Child

edited a book called The Child different. It was a book that was...

different. It was a book that was... very important at the time. The child

very important at the time. The child different. Who was the different child?

different. Who was the different child? They were the boys with difficulties and with

They were the boys with difficulties and with deficiency. Es é que era os

deficiency. Es é que era os different, because the others weren't.

different, because the others weren't. different, they didn't have a certificate of being

different, they didn't have a certificate of being different. Nowadays, we know that

different. Nowadays, we know that This is not true. We know that

This is not true. We know that Diversity is inherent to human beings and is

Diversity is inherent to human beings and is positive. That would be a whole other conversation.

positive. That would be a whole other conversation. the acceptance of all diversity in

the acceptance of all diversity in school, the question, that difference that

school, the question, that difference that There is a difference between integration and inclusion.

There is a difference between integration and inclusion. fundamental. It still is today.

fundamental. It still is today. It's important that we talk about this. How is that

It's important that we talk about this. How is that How did we get confused?

How did we get confused? Systematically, what does it mean to be integrated?

Systematically, what does it mean to be integrated? what to include. Integrated into

what to include. Integrated into In that sense, I even... uh... uh, the integrated one...

In that sense, I even... uh... uh, the integrated one... I think it even makes a noise. I think if

I think it even makes a noise. I think if we do part of the sound design

we do part of the sound design It works better. Here we have the school and the

It works better. Here we have the school and the The person who is going to integrate comes here.

The person who is going to integrate comes here. That's how it is, and that's how it's done.

That's how it is, and that's how it's done. He was the one who integrated, I don't know if

He was the one who integrated, I don't know if Did you notice when it made this noise here?

Did you notice when it made this noise here? He was the one who integrated.

That's great. The school hasn't changed at all. THE The person, when they integrated, even did...

The person, when they integrated, even did... snapping sound.

snapping sound. This is the perspective of integration. In

This is the perspective of integration. In From an inclusion perspective, we also

From an inclusion perspective, we also We would like it to make noise, but no.

We would like it to make noise, but no. It makes such a fantastic noise.

It makes such a fantastic noise. like this one. Why? Because we want to

like this one. Why? Because we want to not only that the person moves,

not only that the person moves, but also the structure that receives it.

but also the structure that receives it. move. And when these two structures

move. And when these two structures They are moving, it's harder to find.

They are moving, it's harder to find. this fitting of

this fitting of less. And that's why it's more difficult to

less. And that's why it's more difficult to inclusion rather than integration. Because in

inclusion rather than integration. Because in integration, obviously, we were at

integration, obviously, we were at waiting to find out if the person is capable or

waiting to find out if the person is capable or He is not capable. Look, you did it!

He is not capable. Look, you did it! I can't integrate that, poor thing. So it is.

I can't integrate that, poor thing. So it is. Look, you have to go back, right?

Look, you have to go back, right? Yes, it happens. Don't do it

Yes, it happens. Don't do it worse

worse the school's effort to respect everyone

the school's effort to respect everyone the starting points, etc. Uh, about the,

the starting points, etc. Uh, about the, Never mind, it would end here, maybe.

Never mind, it would end here, maybe. It would only end after the last one.

It would only end after the last one. slide. Well, promoting education...

slide. Well, promoting education... of democracy from the perspective of

of democracy from the perspective of valuing the students' voice, the voice of

valuing the students' voice, the voice of students. of the National Council

students. of the National Council Education, here we have our

Education, here we have our president, Professor Domingues

president, Professor Domingues Fernandes edited several recommendations.

Fernandes edited several recommendations. I'm going to tell you about the students' voices.

I'm going to tell you about the students' voices. These are very good recommendations.

These are very good recommendations. intentional, but stemming from

intentional, but stemming from very difficult realities and sometimes

very difficult realities and sometimes very disappointing. That means that we

very disappointing. That means that we We listen to the students a lot, but we listen...

We listen to the students a lot, but we listen... They say very little. That is,

They say very little. That is, we take very little forward with what

we take very little forward with what They say. That is, even in education.

They say. That is, even in education. superior, which we will discuss next,

superior, which we will discuss next, In higher education, we see that we

In higher education, we see that we We listen to the students, but it's not always the case.

We listen to the students, but it's not always the case. we almost never truly take into account

we almost never truly take into account Tell them what they say. This is a

Tell them what they say. This is a The question of democracy in relation to education.

The question of democracy in relation to education. How can we promote a

How can we promote a true democracy within

true democracy within education? This alone would be a seminar. I

education? This alone would be a seminar. I I'm really running out of time. Ah, I'll go.

I'm really running out of time. Ah, I'll go. I read you this phrase by Maria Montessori

I read you this phrase by Maria Montessori It also says: "Everyone talks

It also says: "Everyone talks about peace.

about peace. But no one teaches peace. It's funny, it is

But no one teaches peace. It's funny, it is as if peace were a content that we

as if peace were a content that we We learn in a transcendent way.

We learn in a transcendent way. and metaphysics.

and metaphysics. No one teaches peace in this world. Yeah, us

No one teaches peace in this world. Yeah, us We are educated for competition and...

We are educated for competition and... Competition is the principle of all...

Competition is the principle of all... wars. Competition is the principle of

wars. Competition is the principle of all wars.

all wars. When we educate ourselves for the

When we educate ourselves for the cooperation and offering to others

cooperation and offering to others solidarity, so that's going to be the day

solidarity, so that's going to be the day in what are we educating ourselves for?

in what are we educating ourselves for? peace.

peace. Well, that makes five.

Well, that makes five. Levers, but how will there be a fifth?

Levers, but how will there be a fifth? seminar on human rights, I

seminar on human rights, I I will present the second part of my

I will present the second part of my conference next, on the fifth

conference next, on the fifth seminar. Eh,

And that's it, it would end with just that, maybe. telling you again that inclusion is the

telling you again that inclusion is the That's a problem, isn't it? Ah, inclusion is a

That's a problem, isn't it? Ah, inclusion is a It's a problem, but I wanted to tell you, we heard.

It's a problem, but I wanted to tell you, we heard. It is often said that inclusion is a

It is often said that inclusion is a problem.

problem. And how can we promote the

And how can we promote the equity, diversity and democracy,

equity, diversity and democracy, those three things that we talked about in

those three things that we talked about in schools, without being through values and

schools, without being through values and inclusive practices. I think we

inclusive practices. I think we we are systematically confusing the

we are systematically confusing the disease with the remedy. Inclusion and

disease with the remedy. Inclusion and Education is the best remedy that

Education is the best remedy that we know how to fight against the

we know how to fight against the true diseases, which are the

true diseases, which are the inequality, lack of identity and

inequality, lack of identity and the system that we have.

the system that we have. Finally, I'd like to end with just one.

Finally, I'd like to end with just one. This image is to tell you that we are...

This image is to tell you that we are... always very, very confronted with the

always very, very confronted with the power that the sectors have today

power that the sectors have today The far right and neoliberal sectors

The far right and neoliberal sectors to attack the values that we have always

to attack the values that we have always we considered those to be the most

we considered those to be the most important aspects of our lives. Oh, Saint

important aspects of our lives. Oh, Saint Augustine. They once asked the Saint

Augustine. They once asked the Saint Augustine, where was virtue?

Augustine, where was virtue? And Saint Augustine was left thinking and

And Saint Augustine was left thinking and The person who asked him said, "But it is

The person who asked him said, "But it is Obviously, I already know what you're asking me.

Obviously, I already know what you're asking me. will respond. Virtue lies in the middle.

will respond. Virtue lies in the middle. it is not? Virtue lies in the middle, it lies in

it is not? Virtue lies in the middle, it lies in virtue. Virtue lies in the middle. And the

virtue. Virtue lies in the middle. And the Saint Augustine thought and thought and said:

Saint Augustine thought and thought and said: "No, virtue is not in the middle."

"No, virtue is not in the middle." Virtue lies at the extreme that opposes it.

Virtue lies at the extreme that opposes it. sin."

sin." Interesting, isn't it? Why do we

Interesting, isn't it? Why do we We have this idea that virtue has to

We have this idea that virtue has to being in the middle when many times

being in the middle when many times we value perspectives so much that

we value perspectives so much that They are xenophobic, they are racist, they are

They are xenophobic, they are racist, they are the perspectives that most undermine

the perspectives that most undermine education and we value it as much as

education and we value it as much as the values that we have held for so many years

the values that we have held for so many years we develop in our societies.

we develop in our societies. Virtue does not lie in the middle. virtue lies

Virtue does not lie in the middle. virtue lies on the side that opposes all of these

on the side that opposes all of these perspectives that undermine, that poison the

perspectives that undermine, that poison the our education. When we see the size

our education. When we see the size of the wave, sometimes we get too

of the wave, sometimes we get too discouraged. We say: "It's true, the

discouraged. We say: "It's true, the People have to fight, but the wave is too much.

People have to fight, but the wave is too much. "Big". When the wave is big.

"Big". When the wave is big. Otherwise, bring a ladder.

Otherwise, bring a ladder. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. [applause]

Thank you, Professor David Rodrigues. Despite being late, no

Despite being late, no I don't know if anyone has any questions for

I don't know if anyone has any questions for To do something, it has to be brief: a question or

To do something, it has to be brief: a question or a comment

a comment whatever you want to do to Professor David

whatever you want to do to Professor David Rodrigues.

Rodrigues. Radio,

Radio, de reg da regim, enquanto estamos aqui,

de reg da regim, enquanto estamos aqui, Could you please add the last slide?

Could you please add the last slide? Thanks.

There is a question. I had arranged with three people to ask questions.

three people to ask questions. [laughter]

[laughter] They are failing to keep their word.

They are failing to keep their word. Hey, Felisberto is my name, I'm a student.

Hey, Felisberto is my name, I'm a student. PhD in Education. My

PhD in Education. My The question is this, Professor David.

The question is this, Professor David. Rodrigues, according to his statement and

Rodrigues, according to his statement and starting from the premises and the

starting from the premises and the market, identities and

market, identities and of democracy,

of democracy, of democracy,

of democracy, hh and essentially based on the

hh and essentially based on the market,

market, given the logic of capitalism and

given the logic of capitalism and competition and pseudo-meritocracy,

competition and pseudo-meritocracy, as Michael Sandel rightly says,

as Michael Sandel rightly says, thinks capitalism

thinks capitalism a base

a base ideological, philosophical, if you will,

ideological, philosophical, if you will, to actually establish a

to actually establish a inclusive education

inclusive education or

or What alternatives do you suggest?

What alternatives do you suggest? Sure, sure,

Sure, sure, because I understand that in this logic of

because I understand that in this logic of competition

competition We're not going there.

We're not going there. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Anyone else? Then Professor David

Anyone else? Then Professor David He answered them all. Does anyone else have

He answered them all. Does anyone else have Any questions? I think like

Any questions? I think like We're running out of time, perhaps.

We're running out of time, perhaps. We'd go with this one. Look, and yours

We'd go with this one. Look, and yours The question is excellent and I think that

The question is excellent and I think that We could do a seminar on this.

We could do a seminar on this. Who is getting ready to meet a

Who is getting ready to meet a solution? It is not? The truth is, let's

solution? It is not? The truth is, let's Look, we've been here for a long time.

Look, we've been here for a long time. aware of the dangers of capitalism,

aware of the dangers of capitalism, it is not? Not only through the socialists

it is not? Not only through the socialists Utopians, then the so-called socialists,

Utopians, then the so-called socialists, Scientific socialism, right? searched

Scientific socialism, right? searched create an alternative route. And in this

create an alternative route. And in this At that moment we thought that our

At that moment we thought that our a great alternative to fight against

a great alternative to fight against this capitalism that creates all these

this capitalism that creates all these The issues were creation and the

The issues were creation and the development of the welfare state. Think

development of the welfare state. Think in a social state and is above all a

in a social state and is above all a an issue that has developed significantly in

an issue that has developed significantly in Europe, it is not about creating structures

Europe, it is not about creating structures strong structures that

strong structures that In a way, they boycotted this logic.

In a way, they boycotted this logic. capitalist, giving, uh, giving perspectives

capitalist, giving, uh, giving perspectives equity, perspectives on democracy

equity, perspectives on democracy for everyone, etc. Right now,

for everyone, etc. Right now, Honestly, we're a little bit...

Honestly, we're a little bit... perplexed about this, because the

perplexed about this, because the The far right, neoliberalism, has

The far right, neoliberalism, has attacked exactly what we

attacked exactly what we We considered it to be our best.

We considered it to be our best. The shot is to attack capitalism and the

The shot is to attack capitalism and the capitalism and capitalism itself

capitalism and capitalism itself form of creating inequality, etc.

form of creating inequality, etc. Therefore, the best answer I can give you

Therefore, the best answer I can give you I can give, even if it's not a

I can give, even if it's not a enthusiastic response from tomorrows that

enthusiastic response from tomorrows that they sing,

they sing, even though it's not an answer

even though it's not an answer enthusiastic, that is to say, we have to

enthusiastic, that is to say, we have to to continue fighting, we have to continue to

to continue fighting, we have to continue to to fight, to resist, and to say that we

to fight, to resist, and to say that we we can, without a doubt, and mitigate it by

we can, without a doubt, and mitigate it by minus the effects of the market through

minus the effects of the market through creation of large education systems,

creation of large education systems, of good health systems, of good

of good health systems, of good systems that have to do with

systems that have to do with democracy.

democracy. issues related to protection

issues related to protection from the citizens' perspective on this. I think

from the citizens' perspective on this. I think which at this moment is the best hope

which at this moment is the best hope that we have. It is a hope that,

that we have. It is a hope that, Interestingly, and it is a greater hope

Interestingly, and it is a greater hope difficult in the sense that the extreme

difficult in the sense that the extreme The intelligent right realized that was it.

The intelligent right realized that was it. that I really had to act. That is, it was

that I really had to act. That is, it was in these foundations of the welfare state that

in these foundations of the welfare state that It was necessary to attack. And that's why we

It was necessary to attack. And that's why we we realize that every time we

we realize that every time we we are trying to raise something that

we are trying to raise something that boycott is this capitalist logic of

boycott is this capitalist logic of better and of inequality, we

better and of inequality, we We found that this is exactly where...

We found that this is exactly where... attacks. And finally, that's where

attacks. And finally, that's where We have to attack. attack in

We have to attack. attack in The perspective of promoting education is

The perspective of promoting education is that she be a citizen, an education that is

that she be a citizen, an education that is supportive, conscious,

supportive, conscious, of knowledge and not simply a

of knowledge and not simply a Follow-up education and the Quiz

Follow-up education and the Quiz Masters Voice, what the boss says. OK.

Masters Voice, what the boss says. OK. Thanks.

Thanks. [applause]

We now have another round table discussion about Inclusive education, right?

Good morning to everyone. They are present here.

They are present here. My name is Luzia Lima Rodrigues.

My name is Luzia Lima Rodrigues. I am here at Lusófona University,

I am here at Lusófona University, director of the master's program in

director of the master's program in OK, in special education and

OK, in special education and postgraduate studies in special education and

postgraduate studies in special education and inclusive education. And it falls to me here then.

inclusive education. And it falls to me here then. the fabulous role,

the fabulous role, to be accompanied by these people so

to be accompanied by these people so interesting things that I love to learn and

interesting things that I love to learn and to be questioned by them. We're going to...

to be questioned by them. We're going to... then listen to Professor Domingos

then listen to Professor Domingos Fernandes on curriculum, pedagogy and

Fernandes on curriculum, pedagogy and evaluation, perspectives for the

evaluation, perspectives for the diversity and inclusion, which I

diversity and inclusion, which I I'll now talk about yours.

I'll now talk about yours. No, it's not the last one. I'm just starting out, I

No, it's not the last one. I'm just starting out, I Okay, I'm reversing things.

Okay, I'm reversing things. starting from the opposite side.

starting from the opposite side. I always like to do something.

I always like to do something. different. So, Professor Domingos,

different. So, Professor Domingos, I'll introduce them to the three of them first and

I'll introduce them to the three of them first and Then we'll pass the word to the three of them, okay?

Then we'll pass the word to the three of them, okay? good? Professor Domingos, uh, he is

good? Professor Domingos, uh, he is president of the National Council of

president of the National Council of Education, elected by the Assembly of

Education, elected by the Assembly of Republic since July 9, 2022. It is

Republic since July 9, 2022. It is retired full professor at the School

retired full professor at the School Superior of the School of Sociology and

Superior of the School of Sociology and ISQITEC's Public Policies, which is the

ISQITEC's Public Policies, which is the our University Institute of Lisbon,

our University Institute of Lisbon, and researcher at the Research Center

and researcher at the Research Center and Sociology Studies.

and Sociology Studies. coordinated programs over the course of 17 years.

coordinated programs over the course of 17 years. master's and doctoral degrees in

master's and doctoral degrees in specialization in educational assessment

specialization in educational assessment at the University of Lisbon. AND

at the University of Lisbon. AND principal investigator of projects of

principal investigator of projects of investigation and evaluation

investigation and evaluation national and international and is the sole author

national and international and is the sole author out of 200 publications and only 300

out of 200 publications and only 300 national and international communications

national and international communications I was the only one who added it, because when

I was the only one who added it, because when When we see a resume like that, we're like...

When we see a resume like that, we're like... Always impressed.

Always impressed. And then I'll introduce Professor Lília.

And then I'll introduce Professor Lília. Pires, Lília Guardenteiro Pires, who

Pires, Lília Guardenteiro Pires, who It's here to my right too, it is

It's here to my right too, it is licensed in Service by the Institute of

licensed in Service by the Institute of Social Service in Lisbon and Master's degree in

Social Service in Lisbon and Master's degree in special education by the Faculty of

special education by the Faculty of Human Motor Skills Department of the University of

Human Motor Skills Department of the University of Lisbon. Uh, it performs the functions of

Lisbon. Uh, it performs the functions of coordinator of the guidance center

coordinator of the guidance center career and student support

career and student support Faculty of Arts of the University of

Faculty of Arts of the University of Lisbon. is a founding member of the group of

Lisbon. is a founding member of the group of work to support the student with

work to support the student with deficiency in higher education, having

deficiency in higher education, having done as part of the coordination during

done as part of the coordination during For several years, from 2021 to 2023, he was part of the

For several years, from 2021 to 2023, he was part of the European project Unite University Network

European project Unite University Network for Innovation Technology and

for Innovation Technology and Engineering, uh, from 2022 to January of

Engineering, uh, from 2022 to January of 2025, eh, Inclusion Diversity

Professor Lia, we're staying here too, eh? I'm pleased to welcome you. Professor Lília

I'm pleased to welcome you. Professor Lília So you're going to talk about higher education then.

So you're going to talk about higher education then. inclusive, a process of reflections from 37

inclusive, a process of reflections from 37 years of practice. It doesn't seem like anything, because

years of practice. It doesn't seem like anything, because no?

no? It doesn't look like anything. Professor David

It doesn't look like anything. Professor David Rodrigues, who has already been introduced by

Rodrigues, who has already been introduced by Professor Margarida. I'll go then, uh

Professor Margarida. I'll go then, uh so that you don't end up without presenting

so that you don't end up without presenting Nothing, I'll say a few things that...

Nothing, I'll say a few things that... They were said. Moreover, his conference

They were said. Moreover, his conference now, his participation in this

now, his participation in this A round table is also for eh eh

A round table is also for eh eh to explain things that weren't

to explain things that weren't explained at the conference. Therefore,

explained at the conference. Therefore, Now you have the chance to say others.

Now you have the chance to say others. things. Professor David Rodrigues,

things. Professor David Rodrigues, day before yesterday

day before yesterday he received the communication that by

he received the communication that by Faculty of Human Movement

Faculty of Human Movement 20 notable people who were considered

20 notable people who were considered by the University of Lisbon. So, to

by the University of Lisbon. So, to alongside people like Professor Manuel

alongside people like Professor Manuel Sérgio Vieira e Cunha, people like

Sérgio Vieira e Cunha, people like Mourinho, right? Our coach, he's...

Mourinho, right? Our coach, he's... Professor David Rodrigues also

Professor David Rodrigues also will be featured as one of the 20 notable figures of

will be featured as one of the 20 notable figures of University of Lisbon. It's the professor.

University of Lisbon. It's the professor. David Rodrigues as well, the teacher

David Rodrigues as well, the teacher Margarida forgot to mention, he is

Margarida forgot to mention, he is father of the most beautiful 20-year-old girl in

father of the most beautiful 20-year-old girl in He is the grandfather of the world's ugliest dog.

He is the grandfather of the world's ugliest dog. also. He is a poet, he is a musician, and he has a

also. He is a poet, he is a musician, and he has a a series of other virtues. Uh, the

a series of other virtues. Uh, the Professor David Rodrigues will speak.

Professor David Rodrigues will speak. about inclusive education, write

about inclusive education, write Rights achieved through crooked paths. And let's go

Rights achieved through crooked paths. And let's go So let's start with Professor David.

So let's start with Professor David. Rodrigues. Thank you very much.

Very, Good morning. I already saw you today.

Good morning. I already saw you today. Eh, [laughs]

Eh, [laughs] Good morning. I wanted to greet you, in

Good morning. I wanted to greet you, in First of all, my tablemates.

First of all, my tablemates. Well, it goes without saying that they have a

Well, it goes without saying that they have a great respect for each of them.

great respect for each of them. Uh, and h, and I wanted, I wanted maybe, eh

Uh, and h, and I wanted, I wanted maybe, eh to explain the title Writing a little

to explain the title Writing a little Rights achieved through crooked paths. When I

Rights achieved through crooked paths. When I I was coming here this morning,

I was coming here this morning, I passed in front of the avenue of

I passed in front of the avenue of university.

university. On the university avenue there is a

On the university avenue there is a red sculpture, I don't know if it already

red sculpture, I don't know if it already Did you notice, there's a red sculpture of

Did you notice, there's a red sculpture of Charter de Almeida.

Charter de Almeida. And it is, and it is very interesting that that

And it is, and it is very interesting that that sculpture, I'm not going to talk about the...

sculpture, I'm not going to talk about the... The history of sculpture is a little bit like that.

The history of sculpture is a little bit like that. different from the one I'm going to pull, but the

different from the one I'm going to pull, but the The history of that sculpture tells us a lot.

The history of that sculpture tells us a lot. the idea of what entry into

the idea of what entry into university. We are at the entrance to

university. We are at the entrance to University avenue and we have an arch,

University avenue and we have an arch, other different arcs, a circle. AND

other different arcs, a circle. AND I was thinking, look, here's a

I was thinking, look, here's a Great parable about what it is that we

Great parable about what it is that we We consider today that it is the entry into

We consider today that it is the entry into university. I was comparing it to

university. I was comparing it to which was the entrance to the University of

which was the entrance to the University of Coimbra, in the Middle Ages, where there was the

Coimbra, in the Middle Ages, where there was the iron gate. The iron gate was a

iron gate. The iron gate was a The university door that he entered opened

The university door that he entered opened in the morning at 9 o'clock, I don't know what time.

in the morning at 9 o'clock, I don't know what time. It opened, but it opened the university and then...

It opened, but it opened the university and then... He closed the door. I was thinking that

He closed the door. I was thinking that difference that exists between the iron gate

difference that exists between the iron gate and the sculpture of the charts of Almeida

and the sculpture of the charts of Almeida here at the entrance to the University of

here at the entrance to the University of Lisbon. This is a first parable.

Lisbon. This is a first parable. about how we view access today

about how we view access today to the university. Not a single access point, one

to the university. Not a single access point, one an access that opens and closes, but an access

an access that opens and closes, but an access which has various forms, which includes,

which has various forms, which includes, which cherishes various ways of entering into

which cherishes various ways of entering into university.

university. It's not just square people who enter.

It's not just square people who enter. square universities. I'm only talking.

square universities. I'm only talking. In various forms, isn't it? Not just the squares,

In various forms, isn't it? Not just the squares, but the rectangular ones, the circular ones, the

but the rectangular ones, the circular ones, the hexagonal, pentagonal. Everyone

hexagonal, pentagonal. Everyone can enter university, according to us

can enter university, according to us teaches the sculpture of Chartas de

teaches the sculpture of Chartas de Almeida.

Almeida. A second issue is that I think...

A second issue is that I think... That's when we think about university.

That's when we think about university. Today, we are thinking about improving...

Today, we are thinking about improving... pedagogy.

pedagogy. Uh, in 1983,

Uh, in 1983, most of the audience wasn't even born yet.

most of the audience wasn't even born yet. still, but the problem is yours, the

still, but the problem is yours, the The problem is yours. But in 1983, I

The problem is yours. But in 1983, I I organized the first symposium called

I organized the first symposium called pedagogy at the university, in

pedagogy at the university, in University of Lisbon,

University of Lisbon, 1983. And you can't imagine the blow that...

1983. And you can't imagine the blow that... I took it. Everyone was saying pedagogy.

I took it. Everyone was saying pedagogy. at the university, but not at the university.

at the university, but not at the university. There is pedagogy. pedagogy for children

There is pedagogy. pedagogy for children They would even go looking for the root of the word.

They would even go looking for the root of the word. pedors in Greek means child, pedagogy.

pedors in Greek means child, pedagogy. For children. We at the university

For children. We at the university We lack pedagogy, we are not...

We lack pedagogy, we are not... of these. We are not like that. We in

of these. We are not like that. We in university we have knowledge,

university we have knowledge, We have transmission, we have

We have transmission, we have Responsibility, we have autonomy. Which

Responsibility, we have autonomy. Which any pedagogy,

any pedagogy, as time has shown that these people

as time has shown that these people They were mistaken, and how did we...

They were mistaken, and how did we... we are so focused today on

we are so focused today on importance of the pedagogy of

importance of the pedagogy of university, we think that what the

university, we think that what the The university can do better, isn't it?

The university can do better, isn't it? not only to produce knowledge, but also

not only to produce knowledge, but also find ways like it can

find ways like it can to mobilize people to understand

to mobilize people to understand this knowledge and to participate

this knowledge and to participate in this knowledge.

in this knowledge. And here I'll give you an example, an example.

And here I'll give you an example, an example. which was once told to me by a colleague.

which was once told to me by a colleague. mine is from a university that

mine is from a university that On the first day of classes, a blind student entered.

On the first day of classes, a blind student entered. Oh, the blind man entered the room, didn't he? And he

Oh, the blind man entered the room, didn't he? And he She gave a presentation lesson, but she was trembling.

She gave a presentation lesson, but she was trembling. He says: "My God, what could I possibly do to myself?"

He says: "My God, what could I possibly do to myself?" to happen? I already have so many problems,

to happen? I already have so many problems, I'm still going to get a blind guy on top of me.

I'm still going to get a blind guy on top of me. it is not? What's going to happen? Then

it is not? What's going to happen? Then He gave the introductory lecture and at the end

He gave the introductory lecture and at the end From the introductory class, the blind man came

From the introductory class, the blind man came talk to him to reassure him

talk to him to reassure him People with disabilities. Often

People with disabilities. Often you have to do this work of

you have to do this work of to reassure people who don't have

to reassure people who don't have deficiency. And he came to talk to the

deficiency. And he came to talk to the The professor said to him: "Look, professor,

The professor said to him: "Look, professor, Stay calm, stay calm. Yes, but how?

Stay calm, stay calm. Yes, but how? "So, how's it going to be?" Oh, professor, it is

"So, how's it going to be?" Oh, professor, it is very very easy. All I need is that

very very easy. All I need is that Professor, send me the PowerPoint that will...

Professor, send me the PowerPoint that will... spend two or three more days in class

spend two or three more days in class early. This can be resolved. And the

early. This can be resolved. And the The professor said: "It's up there, up there."

The professor said: "It's up there, up there." that. "Oh, that's great, wonderful." And it began to

that. "Oh, that's great, wonderful." And it began to To do this, he sent the PowerPoint to the

To do this, he sent the PowerPoint to the for the blind student and it remained

for the blind student and it remained amazed because despite being blind, he didn't

amazed because despite being blind, he didn't Looking at the PowerPoint, he would say: "This

Looking at the PowerPoint, he would say: "This That number in the graph is there,

That number in the graph is there, "This is fantastic." He said, "Look,

"This is fantastic." He said, "Look, Finally, this solved it. After two

Finally, this solved it. After two Weeks later, the coordinator of the class came.

Weeks later, the coordinator of the class came. He spoke to the teacher and said: "Oh

He spoke to the teacher and said: "Oh Professor, is it true that you are...

Professor, is it true that you are... Send the PowerPoint to our colleague.

Send the PowerPoint to our colleague. Blind?" Dis: "Yes, then why not?"

Blind?" Dis: "Yes, then why not?" "Send it to us too?"

This is an interesting idea about the Pedagogy at the university. How is it that

Pedagogy at the university. How is it that people who sometimes have these

people who sometimes have these difficulties that are so evident, so

difficulties that are so evident, so obvious, how can these people

obvious, how can these people to help improve pedagogy in

to help improve pedagogy in university? How does this teacher

university? How does this teacher he discovered that if he sent the PowerPoint

he discovered that if he sent the PowerPoint earlier for the students, certainly the

earlier for the students, certainly the Your classes could be better.

Your classes could be better. Therefore, when we think about

Therefore, when we think about writing rights with crooked lines, we

writing rights with crooked lines, we at the university we are traditionally

at the university we are traditionally with many crooked lines, with many

with many crooked lines, with many crooked lines. A very specific line that has the

crooked lines. A very specific line that has the to do with the transmission, which has to do with us

to do with the transmission, which has to do with us to think that students are

to think that students are absolutely inesurably autonomous.

absolutely inesurably autonomous. Neither we, let alone the students,

Neither we, let alone the students, We teachers, not even we are as much as we think.

We teachers, not even we are as much as we think. But the students, right? Why is that

But the students, right? Why is that Did we think that? And let's think about what it's like

Did we think that? And let's think about what it's like that in these crooked lines we can

that in these crooked lines we can to create rights. I mean, what is it that

to create rights. I mean, what is it that we can do it at the level of

we can do it at the level of university to protect students

university to protect students Which ones are more fragile?

Which ones are more fragile? And when we talk about more students

And when we talk about more students fragile, we're not just talking about students

fragile, we're not just talking about students with a disability. often they are even the

with a disability. often they are even the students with disabilities who end up

students with disabilities who end up because it has more support because it has more

because it has more support because it has more possibilities of saying: "Look, I have

possibilities of saying: "Look, I have I have a disability, I am entitled to this.

I have a disability, I am entitled to this. "right". But often there are students

"right". But often there are students invisible. I'm only going to talk about two or

invisible. I'm only going to talk about two or three. There are students, for example, who...

three. There are students, for example, who... Their native language is not Portuguese.

Their native language is not Portuguese. These students whose language

These students whose language mother tongue is not Portuguese, they have difficulties.

mother tongue is not Portuguese, they have difficulties. added, because in terms of what is a

added, because in terms of what is a more symbolic thought, a thought

more symbolic thought, a thought more elaborate, when we have to

more elaborate, when we have to compare concepts, when we have to

compare concepts, when we have to See and discover the differences, right?

See and discover the differences, right? between things that seem the same to us

between things that seem the same to us At first glance, these students have

At first glance, these students have increased difficulties.

increased difficulties. Therefore, we need to have a

Therefore, we need to have a particular attention to these

particular attention to these students. Another issue that is

students. Another issue that is The fundamental question is how we, in these situations,

The fundamental question is how we, in these situations, in these

in these straight lines, how do we give so

straight lines, how do we give so often given little importance to

often given little importance to mentoring and how we think that

mentoring and how we think that all the support that is given to the student has

all the support that is given to the student has Whatever comes from the teacher, it has to come from a

Whatever comes from the teacher, it has to come from a structure of the university administration, it has to come from

structure of the university administration, it has to come from Ministry of Education and it has to come

Ministry of Education and it has to come preference of any entity

preference of any entity a transcendent being that provides support. And we

a transcendent being that provides support. And we We say: "How can this happen?"

We say: "How can this happen?" "What if I don't have this support?" And many

"What if I don't have this support?" And many Sometimes we ignore that there is a lot of support available.

Sometimes we ignore that there is a lot of support available. who can be recruited, who can be

who can be recruited, who can be combined, which can be negotiated with

combined, which can be negotiated with People who are around the student.

People who are around the student. And that doesn't mean we are.

And that doesn't mean we are. to exploit other people, because

to exploit other people, because Fortunately, we know today that when

Fortunately, we know today that when If you teach, you also learn. When a

If you teach, you also learn. When a if the student is helping another

if the student is helping another student, he is also learning.

student, he is also learning. It can also be learned by teaching.

It can also be learned by teaching. And that's why I think it's very...

And that's why I think it's very... It's important for us to have this perspective, isn't it?

It's important for us to have this perspective, isn't it? only in relation to students with

only in relation to students with disability, but we think about

disability, but we think about any student who has a

any student who has a difficulty. All of us, all of us to

difficulty. All of us, all of us to Throughout our lives we face difficulties.

Throughout our lives we face difficulties. We often have emotional difficulties, many

We often have emotional difficulties, many Sometimes affective, social. Nobody loves

Sometimes affective, social. Nobody loves me. It's not when people say: "The

me. It's not when people say: "The My problem there is that nobody likes it.

My problem there is that nobody likes it. me. If I don't go looking for mine

me. If I don't go looking for mine "Friends, nobody's looking for me."

"Friends, nobody's looking for me." Welcome to the real world. Real world,

Welcome to the real world. Real world, it is not? And how do we look at

it is not? And how do we look at These difficulties? What is it that we

These difficulties? What is it that we What can we do to achieve this? Again,

What can we do to achieve this? Again, In conclusion, I think that our

In conclusion, I think that our The answer is inclusion.

The answer is inclusion. Our response is how do we...

Our response is how do we... We promote inclusion. Not only do we have

We promote inclusion. Not only do we have perspective of what support is that almost

perspective of what support is that almost which could be a type of support

which could be a type of support special education for a person who comes,

special education for a person who comes, an expert, one is also

an expert, one is also precise. as they are needed, but not

precise. as they are needed, but not To think only about that, to think that many times

To think only about that, to think that many times our greatest strength for inclusion, the

our greatest strength for inclusion, the our greatest strength is creating

our greatest strength is creating Rights in crooked lines is recruiting.

Rights in crooked lines is recruiting. the whole community to help the whole

the whole community to help the whole community, to truly create one

community, to truly create one inclusive self-help perspective, of

inclusive self-help perspective, of solidarity, of helping others in the sense

solidarity, of helping others in the sense of us being able to overcome some

of us being able to overcome some the difficulties.

the difficulties. Therefore, this would be to give a

Therefore, this would be to give a kick.

kick. Thank you very much. Thank you very much,

Thank you very much. Thank you very much, teacher. [applause]

I will now pass the word to our colleague. Lília Pires,

Lília Pires, that will pass there to the

that will pass there to the For the computer.

For the computer. No, no, I ended up not having it. Here it is

No, no, I ended up not having it. Here it is this assistant. Excellent. OK.

this assistant. Excellent. OK. Well, good morning to everyone. It's for

Well, good morning to everyone. It's for It is a great pleasure for me to return to this

It is a great pleasure for me to return to this home and being so well accompanied in this

home and being so well accompanied in this A table with my dear friend David.

A table with my dear friend David. Rodrigues and Luzia from Sometime ago

Rodrigues and Luzia from Sometime ago many years, in these 37 we have many there

many years, in these 37 we have many there in partnership and also with the professor

in partnership and also with the professor Domingues Fernandes. It is indeed a

Domingues Fernandes. It is indeed a It is an honor, and I also want to thank...

It is an honor, and I also want to thank... organizing committee of this congress

organizing committee of this congress for inviting me to participate and,

for inviting me to participate and, above all, also to include the

above all, also to include the higher education issues in a

higher education issues in a congress where people are talking about

congress where people are talking about Humanism, human rights and citizenship.

Humanism, human rights and citizenship. Well, 37 years of experience might seem like a lot.

Well, 37 years of experience might seem like a lot. a number 37, if it were 40 maybe it would be

a number 37, if it were 40 maybe it would be most remarkable, but these 37 years are 37

most remarkable, but these 37 years are 37 years lived with profound eh

years lived with profound eh emotion and resilience,

emotion and resilience, because, as we said and throughout the

because, as we said and throughout the time, inclusion is a process and the

time, inclusion is a process and the this process in higher education is a

this process in higher education is a slow process and those who work on it have

slow process and those who work on it have to actually have a lot of resilience.

to actually have a lot of resilience. because there are times that are of

because there are times that are of happiness. These are the questions that

happiness. These are the questions that The professor now says when we

The professor now says when we we managed to overcome all the

we managed to overcome all the We see obstacles and we see our students

We see obstacles and we see our students all of them following the same ones

all of them following the same ones your colleagues on the same routes,

your colleagues on the same routes, when also having academic success, it is

when also having academic success, it is For us, it's a joy. But there is also

For us, it's a joy. But there is also tears, tears of happiness and

tears, tears of happiness and also the tears of frustration. Lots of

also the tears of frustration. Lots of Sometimes this happens, but that's the case.

Sometimes this happens, but that's the case. Frustration can also make us stronger.

Frustration can also make us stronger. because, as the professor says, we don't

because, as the professor says, we don't we have to be finding the

we have to be finding the obstacles and simply accepting them

obstacles and simply accepting them obstacles. We have to look at them.

obstacles. We have to look at them. as challenges to be overcome. Put

as challenges to be overcome. Put That's right, 37 years later, since I

That's right, 37 years later, since I I entered the Faculty of Letters at

I entered the Faculty of Letters at University of Lisbon, what is it that

University of Lisbon, what is it that Has the fact changed? We can already see that the

Has the fact changed? We can already see that the The terminology has changed, hasn't it? We have

The terminology has changed, hasn't it? We have new concepts, equity, diversity,

new concepts, equity, diversity, There's talk of inclusion, things are changing.

There's talk of inclusion, things are changing. Words, but policies will have changed.

Words, but policies will have changed. Will the regulations also change?

Will the regulations also change? There are new regulations, but will they...

There are new regulations, but will they... Have practices changed as well?

Have practices changed as well? And besides, time has changed, it's been 37 years.

And besides, time has changed, it's been 37 years. But is it possible that within these walls, of

But is it possible that within these walls, of walls of the school that welcomed me 37 years ago

walls of the school that welcomed me 37 years ago Over the years, the way things have also changed has also changed.

Over the years, the way things have also changed has also changed. Do we look at each other?

Do we look at each other? These are the questions we face.

These are the questions we face. to put, and for that, what inclusion is, the

to put, and for that, what inclusion is, the Education is a fundamental right that already

Education is a fundamental right that already It was mentioned here and it's fine.

It was mentioned here and it's fine. recorded in several documents, but

recorded in several documents, but we ask ourselves now, will it be in

we ask ourselves now, will it be in higher education: this right is fulfilled

higher education: this right is fulfilled Just by opening the doors? As they would say

Just by opening the doors? As they would say Professor, a little while ago, we can all...

Professor, a little while ago, we can all... to enter, but is it just a

to enter, but is it just a The question of entering higher education? AND

The question of entering higher education? AND This is how inclusion is done, or how it can be done.

This is how inclusion is done, or how it can be done. To talk about inclusion in higher education?

To talk about inclusion in higher education? Going back a little bit,

Going back a little bit, talking about inclusion or students with

talking about inclusion or students with some are difficulties or

some are difficulties or primarily students with disabilities

primarily students with disabilities they started entering higher education

they started entering higher education starting in the 80s. And at the time what

starting in the 80s. And at the time what The problem was that there were no structures in place.

The problem was that there were no structures in place. It was a lot of goodwill, a lot of goodwill.

It was a lot of goodwill, a lot of goodwill. from the teacher, the colleague's goodwill, the

from the teacher, the colleague's goodwill, the goodwill of the employee who was taking

goodwill of the employee who was taking in the wheelchair is on or on the lap

in the wheelchair is on or on the lap colleague because there were no elevators, or the

colleague because there were no elevators, or the colleague who I would take home to record.

colleague who I would take home to record. the classes. It was all in the name of good intentions, but

the classes. It was all in the name of good intentions, but This goodwill also began to stir.

This goodwill also began to stir. It's the minds and the people who were there, because

It's the minds and the people who were there, because They started saying, "This can't be."

They started saying, "This can't be." We have, these colleagues need

We have, these colleagues need support and in the late 80s the

support and in the late 80s the student movements,

student movements, students who did not have disabilities

students who did not have disabilities And here, in these years, we've talked about students who...

And here, in these years, we've talked about students who... They had visual impairments and were for

They had visual impairments and were for They started to put pressure on each other.

They started to put pressure on each other. from the school administrations and begin to

from the school administrations and begin to the first services to emerge in

the first services to emerge in universities. passes the college to

universities. passes the college to The University of Minha is one of

The University of Minha is one of first. In 1986, the University of

first. In 1986, the University of Coimbra has the first service in

Coimbra has the first service in Portugal's support for students with

Portugal's support for students with At the time, disability was the term used.

At the time, disability was the term used. And then we continue in '88 and

And then we continue in '88 and Faculty of Letters, University of

Faculty of Letters, University of Mino and Aveiro in '94, Porto in '95

Mino and Aveiro in '94, Porto in '95 and the one in Évora in '96, that is, all of this.

and the one in Évora in '96, that is, all of this. And in this space-time we see that there is here...

And in this space-time we see that there is here... We celebrate the 30th anniversary of the declaration of

We celebrate the 30th anniversary of the declaration of Salamanca. And indeed this statement

Salamanca. And indeed this statement It also came to boost these movements.

It also came to boost these movements. within the schools without

within the schools without regulations, without

regulations, without It lacks national legislative support.

It lacks national legislative support. they came to be created and came above

they came to be created and came above Of everything, the recognition begins here.

Of everything, the recognition begins here. of students with special needs,

of students with special needs, But as the professor here was saying, the

But as the professor here was saying, the We are talking about integration. Yes, in

We are talking about integration. Yes, in Basically, we are helping the student to

Basically, we are helping the student to adapt to good. There is, in fact, no

adapt to good. There is, in fact, no She is somewhat accepted, enters the school, but the

She is somewhat accepted, enters the school, but the Regarding the measures, what is changing is very...

Regarding the measures, what is changing is very... little.

little. In the 2000s, one of these services appeared.

In the 2000s, one of these services appeared. They come together and form a group of

They come together and form a group of work that has already been discussed, the group of

work that has already been discussed, the group of work to support students with

work to support students with Deficiency in higher education. And this

Deficiency in higher education. And this It's starting to move a little, actually.

It's starting to move a little, actually. plus schools nationwide. In

plus schools nationwide. In In 2007, we conducted a survey,

In 2007, we conducted a survey, We sent this with the support of the general management of

We sent this with the support of the general management of higher education

higher education a questionnaire to find out after all

a questionnaire to find out after all How many are we, who are we, what is it that

How many are we, who are we, what is it that we have. And it's interesting that those who don't

we have. And it's interesting that those who don't had support services, starts to think

had support services, starts to think through that questionnaire, perhaps

through that questionnaire, perhaps This is a service that we should have.

This is a service that we should have. here at our school too, see you later or

here at our school too, see you later or less to

less to 2010.

2010. A lot of it comes down to integration. You

A lot of it comes down to integration. You Services are increasing more in education.

Services are increasing more in education. public education compared to private education. And in

public education compared to private education. And in 2018, with the changes in legislation

2018, with the changes in legislation In terms of compulsory education, they begin

In terms of compulsory education, they begin also to be promoted

also to be promoted Universities rethinking their reality.

Universities rethinking their reality. And not only that. There is also beginning to be a

And not only that. There is also beginning to be a greater pressure from other groups. these

greater pressure from other groups. these students that Professor David has

students that Professor David has He spoke little, the students coming from

He spoke little, the students coming from Palope, for example, are what they bring to us with

Palope, for example, are what they bring to us with in large numbers, but equally with

in large numbers, but equally with major difficulties. And we have to

major difficulties. And we have to We need to welcome them and adapt the system.

We need to welcome them and adapt the system. We have to help them succeed. is from

We have to help them succeed. is from fact a

fact a a situation that is real,

a situation that is real, but not only students with

but not only students with neurodivergences, students with,

neurodivergences, students with, forgiveness, learning difficulties

forgiveness, learning difficulties They are also beginning to emerge and request from

They are also beginning to emerge and request from a school that creates the conditions for them

a school that creates the conditions for them They need these things to achieve academic success. AND

They need these things to achieve academic success. AND it is indeed also at this moment a

it is indeed also at this moment a I'll talk to you in a little while later.

I'll talk to you in a little while later. as they begin to emerge, the schools

as they begin to emerge, the schools they start to look at this idea, this

they start to look at this idea, this issue within the scope of what they called

issue within the scope of what they called at the time social responsibility and

at the time social responsibility and This issue is beginning to be accepted as the

This issue is beginning to be accepted as the inclusion, such as being recognized as

inclusion, such as being recognized as educational quality and in the realm of ethics

educational quality and in the realm of ethics institutional. It is from this year that

institutional. It is from this year that They are starting to appear.

They are starting to appear. What is the impact? In fact, that

What is the impact? In fact, that Are we getting students? Every year,

Are we getting students? Every year, the General Directorate of Statistics of

the General Directorate of Statistics of Education and Science release the data with

Education and Science release the data with based on the questionnaire which is as

based on the questionnaire which is as institutions fill it out. And from 2024, of

institutions fill it out. And from 2024, of From 2324 to 2425, there was an increase of

From 2324 to 2425, there was an increase of 30.70%

30.70% of students who requested the status of

of students who requested the status of student with educational needs

student with educational needs specific. In the previous year, that is,

specific. In the previous year, that is, from 22 to 23 to from 22 23 to 23 24 o

from 22 to 23 to from 22 23 to 23 24 o The increase was only 8.7%. Notice, from

The increase was only 8.7%. Notice, from From one year to the next, there was a...

From one year to the next, there was a... substantial difference of 30%. But above

substantial difference of 30%. But above From everything, the increase in the private sector

From everything, the increase in the private sector It was even more significant, it was...

It was even more significant, it was... 75.70%.

75.70%. This means that students begin to

This means that students begin to also see private education is like a

also see private education is like a alternative or as a way to be able to

alternative or as a way to be able to to attend higher education.

to attend higher education. But we have this issue every year.

But we have this issue every year. That is, but ultimately there is an increase in numbers.

That is, but ultimately there is an increase in numbers. But who are these students? How is that

But who are these students? How is that We, I consider that we are a

We, I consider that we are a just a little bit like we are the service of

just a little bit like we are the service of firemen? And I'll explain why.

firemen? And I'll explain why. Because every year the students leave, they are

Because every year the students leave, they are placed in schools and we or in

placed in schools and we or in colleges and we the services there is the signal

colleges and we the services there is the signal the alarm sounds when the student arrives and says: "I

the alarm sounds when the student arrives and says: "I I'm here, I need support" and knot

I'm here, I need support" and knot that which we may have done, but if

that which we may have done, but if If there are measures, changes to the rooms, eh

If there are measures, changes to the rooms, eh to create other conditions that were not

to create other conditions that were not as planned, we begin

as planned, we begin We became firefighters because we have to.

We became firefighters because we have to. at that moment resort to everything that is

at that moment resort to everything that is the

the the resources available. Therefore, the one of

the resources available. Therefore, the one of In fact, it's a necessity that we have. We have

In fact, it's a necessity that we have. We have There is a problem in this situation. For us it is

There is a problem in this situation. For us it is It is important to know who the students are.

It is important to know who the students are. They reach us, but it's with the application of

They reach us, but it's with the application of general data protection regulation

general data protection regulation data protection, this information

data protection, this information They are not collected. Therefore, we

They are not collected. Therefore, we We know that we are having many

We know that we are having many The students are coming, and that's good, which is a good sign.

The students are coming, and that's good, which is a good sign. We are here to welcome you. But who

We are here to welcome you. But who Are these the students? I can say in

Are these the students? I can say in Faculty of Arts of the University of

Faculty of Arts of the University of Lisbon, because we work with these

Lisbon, because we work with these numbers, which I had been working with for 37 years.

numbers, which I had been working with for 37 years. with 13 students with visual impairments.

with 13 students with visual impairments. This year the number has increased, there are 123.

This year the number has increased, there are 123. But I'm talking to you about data from

But I'm talking to you about data from first semester 2020 is 20 ai 25 26

first semester 2020 is 20 ai 25 26 and that, unlike in previous years,

and that, unlike in previous years, our group with whom we work

our group with whom we work there are more students with the disorder of

there are more students with the disorder of Petro of autism, students with

Petro of autism, students with specific difficulties

specific difficulties learning. these numbers of these

learning. these numbers of these students at our college duplicated and

students at our college duplicated and In some cases, they tripled. What is this?

In some cases, they tripled. What is this? What this means is that we have here a

What this means is that we have here a The diversity of the population we have

The diversity of the population we have that you need to pay attention to. And these are not

that you need to pay attention to. And these are not included as well because they are the students

included as well because they are the students who request student status with

who request student status with specific educational needs, but

specific educational needs, but we have other groups that we give

we have other groups that we give attention. we have the case of the students for

attention. we have the case of the students for Lopes, we have the case of students with

Lopes, we have the case of students with Due to financial difficulties, we created a

Due to financial difficulties, we created a a specific program for them and much

a specific program for them and much This year is interesting, reflecting a

This year is interesting, reflecting a It is only in these numbers that these

It is only in these numbers that these programs that they don't usually watch

programs that they don't usually watch were participating, we have at least two

were participating, we have at least two students with autism spectrum disorder

students with autism spectrum disorder working in the university services,

working in the university services, which is wonderful for us, which is

which is wonderful for us, which is We finally got these resources.

We finally got these resources. that we are giving to all

that we are giving to all students, these students also resort to

students, these students also resort to him, because this also has a problem.

him, because this also has a problem. that students have to, just like in

that students have to, just like in In the past, we emerged with the

In the past, we emerged with the claiming their rights, the

claiming their rights, the our students, the students who arrive at

our students, the students who arrive at colleges, universities, have to

colleges, universities, have to to demand better conditions for themselves

to demand better conditions for themselves rights. And often what we

rights. And often what we The thing is, we call them...

The thing is, we call them... to participate in meetings, to give opinions

to participate in meetings, to give opinions so that we can improve that

so that we can improve that what we do and have many difficulties

what we do and have many difficulties times in getting your answers. Put

times in getting your answers. Put Yes, we need students, huh?

Yes, we need students, huh? Help them too, because sometimes...

Help them too, because sometimes... It's natural that they don't feel so comfortable.

It's natural that they don't feel so comfortable. to do so, but that they can effectively

to do so, but that they can effectively Give your opinion. Nowadays, education

Give your opinion. Nowadays, education superior that retains some of the

superior that retains some of the dimensions of diversity or difficulty

dimensions of diversity or difficulty in responding to diversity, to

in responding to diversity, to dimensions of inclusion, whether physical or

dimensions of inclusion, whether physical or digital, whether pedagogical or not, which is already

digital, whether pedagogical or not, which is already to speak and probably the teacher

to speak and probably the teacher Domingues will speak, but above all

Domingues will speak, but above all we are also beginning to grasp the dimension

we are also beginning to grasp the dimension cultural, linguistic and ethnic. These

cultural, linguistic and ethnic. These These are the new varieties with which we...

These are the new varieties with which we... we confronted, and also the issue of health.

we confronted, and also the issue of health. mental health and well-being. It is extremely

mental health and well-being. It is extremely important. Those who are not well have nothing.

important. Those who are not well have nothing. If you don't feel like it, let's go study. AND

If you don't feel like it, let's go study. AND I need to help and motivate our people.

I need to help and motivate our people. students in that sense, but we are

students in that sense, but we are talking about institutions and in fact

talking about institutions and in fact they continue to see, just as in other

they continue to see, just as in other Issues in the country, inequalities. There is

Issues in the country, inequalities. There is institutions, the major universities,

institutions, the major universities, those that have already started, have

those that have already started, have effectively, many services already exist.

effectively, many services already exist. consolidated and inclusive practices

consolidated and inclusive practices consistent and are currently in a

consistent and are currently in a another level to address more complex issues

another level to address more complex issues h eh various, while there are others

h eh various, while there are others universities that they still lack

universities that they still lack resources, infrastructure is lacking for

resources, infrastructure is lacking for answer some of those that we already

answer some of those that we already We don't talk about them much, despite

We don't talk about them much, despite still being present. But above all

still being present. But above all everything also includes that which, for me,

everything also includes that which, for me, My 37 years of experience is...

My 37 years of experience is... cultural resistance and issues of

cultural resistance and issues of if we make education part of the curriculum

if we make education part of the curriculum Or adapting some, we are downloading the

Or adapting some, we are downloading the level or are we affecting the quality of

level or are we affecting the quality of course. I can't be there, I've already been told...

course. I can't be there, I've already been told... me, my lady, this, I in the end

me, my lady, this, I in the end this student has a certificate equal to

this student has a certificate equal to other. And I said, "Yes, of course, but no."

other. And I said, "Yes, of course, but no." It's possible because he didn't respond to the same.

It's possible because he didn't respond to the same. CV than this colleague. if

CV than this colleague. if if you don't have a resume, you don't have the

if you don't have a resume, you don't have the I can't have a special certificate.

I can't have a special certificate. It's about fulfilling what you're asking of me.

It's about fulfilling what you're asking of me. This is one of the issues that happens and

This is one of the issues that happens and despite me telling you that for a long time

despite me telling you that for a long time Unfortunately, the schools...

Unfortunately, the schools... They're made of people, aren't they? all of us.

They're made of people, aren't they? all of us. And just a short time ago, last year,

And just a short time ago, last year, A situation arose that I never

A situation arose that I never I imagined that in the literature faculty

I imagined that in the literature faculty This happened.

This happened. if it happened. We have the service there.

if it happened. We have the service there. of firefighters. When we have a student

of firefighters. When we have a student that enters us in a wheelchair and that

that enters us in a wheelchair and that We need you, we only have two rooms that

We need you, we only have two rooms that They are not accessible at the moment. And for

They are not accessible at the moment. And for Bad luck, that student had that day.

Bad luck, that student had that day. I had a class scheduled for that room.

I had a class scheduled for that room. And we'll get the services done quickly.

And we'll get the services done quickly. They tried to change it, but incredibly...

They tried to change it, but incredibly... It seems the professor who was there did not

It seems the professor who was there did not I wanted to leave the classroom because... well, no.

I wanted to leave the classroom because... well, no. I wanted to leave the classroom and

I wanted to leave the classroom and that student was deprived that day

that student was deprived that day to be in class because the teacher is pure

to be in class because the teacher is pure and simply didn't want to switch to

and simply didn't want to switch to next room. This to me is

next room. This to me is Truly shocking. And this means

Truly shocking. And this means to say that we are 37 years old.

to say that we are 37 years old. to speak every day, to raise awareness and

to speak every day, to raise awareness and we are still confronted with something that

we are still confronted with something that For us it was so basic and it was what

For us it was so basic and it was what We fought at first, but still

We fought at first, but still It continues to be in our classrooms.

It continues to be in our classrooms. We can also say that I spoke a little while ago.

We can also say that I spoke a little while ago. the difference between eh eh services and

the difference between eh eh services and institutions,

institutions, But we have one thing that I think...

But we have one thing that I think... which is the only one. Uh, it's the one in Portugal and the

which is the only one. Uh, it's the one in Portugal and the higher education has no legislation

higher education has no legislation specific to this subject, that is,

specific to this subject, that is, We have legislation up to the level of education.

We have legislation up to the level of education. mandatory, but from then on the State

mandatory, but from then on the State continues to think it's from

continues to think it's from responsibility of universities

responsibility of universities to guarantee what belongs to

to guarantee what belongs to responsibility of the State itself

responsibility of the State itself to guarantee your rights. Because what

to guarantee your rights. Because what What does the State do? Ah, why is this?

What does the State do? Ah, why is this? Because universities, education

Because universities, education superiors have autonomy. So, inside the

superiors have autonomy. So, inside the its autonomy, that was the justification.

its autonomy, that was the justification. that they gave me, they must indeed have their own.

that they gave me, they must indeed have their own. own regulations. effectively

own regulations. effectively institutions are responding, they are...

institutions are responding, they are... to have its own regulations, but

to have its own regulations, but There is effectively here the State is...

There is effectively here the State is... to shirk responsibility for ensuring the

to shirk responsibility for ensuring the right that is enshrined in

right that is enshrined in Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, the

Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, the These students have the right to education. THE

These students have the right to education. THE What does the State do? Well, the state

What does the State do? Well, the state what he does is partially justified.

what he does is partially justified. and giving students some benefits,

and giving students some benefits, some conditions guarantee them the

some conditions guarantee them the access through the quota

access through the quota priority for candidates with

priority for candidates with deficiency. We now also have...

deficiency. We now also have... support through scholarships

support through scholarships students with disabilities up to 60%,

students with disabilities up to 60%, scholarship and accommodation supplements and

scholarship and accommodation supplements and He created it very recently, for whom

He created it very recently, for whom It's good that you see that it's in education.

It's good that you see that it's in education. Check the counter; it includes where they are there.

Check the counter; it includes where they are there. published the services that exist

published the services that exist in universities and the points of

in universities and the points of contact, which is extremely useful for

contact, which is extremely useful for whoever is following a case and

whoever is following a case and student wants to go to higher education and

student wants to go to higher education and that needs more attention

that needs more attention special. Furthermore, regarding

special. Furthermore, regarding institutions,

institutions, We've checked this recently.

We've checked this recently. It is the general direction of higher education.

It is the general direction of higher education. launched a program called program

launched a program called program success and reducing dropout rates in education

success and reducing dropout rates in education superior and that many institutions,

superior and that many institutions, namely the University of Lisbon,

namely the University of Lisbon, has been providing training for teachers, for

has been providing training for teachers, for employees, for students,

employees, for students, in matters of inclusion, of

in matters of inclusion, of diversity, among other things. Beyond

diversity, among other things. Beyond Of all this, you must have already heard of

Of all this, you must have already heard of mental health program, check

mental health program, check psychological, from the check of

psychological, from the check of Well, now it's in terms of food.

Well, now it's in terms of food. that now and others still others

that now and others still others programs that have actually given to

programs that have actually given to institutions, especially those that

institutions, especially those that They have fewer resources, their opportunity

They have fewer resources, their opportunity to improve conditions and of

to improve conditions and of to adapt their schools. to these new

to adapt their schools. to these new public, to the challenges of these new ones.

public, to the challenges of these new ones. Well, what else are we missing? H,

Well, what else are we missing? H, What we lack here, besides the legislation that

What we lack here, besides the legislation that I've already said it, we also lack a greater

I've already said it, we also lack a greater relationship with the schools of

relationship with the schools of secondary education or levels of

secondary education or levels of previous teachings so that this passage

previous teachings so that this passage We would also like that here, and I think that

We would also like that here, and I think that It was extremely productive for us to

It was extremely productive for us to to do a good job, so that we are

to do a good job, so that we are so that our students are well.

so that our students are well. integrated, that these results of

integrated, that these results of national competitions were released much earlier

national competitions were released much earlier for us, even before that of those who

for us, even before that of those who They go out for the students, that's it, for the

They go out for the students, that's it, for the students who enter through the entrance exam

students who enter through the entrance exam nationally, it is essential for us to leave

nationally, it is essential for us to leave of us, the families, being distressed

of us, the families, being distressed when you arrive, because it's a moment of

when you arrive, because it's a moment of happiness. It's the most wonderful phase of

happiness. It's the most wonderful phase of A young person's life begins when they enter education.

A young person's life begins when they enter education. superior, making friends. It's the way we are.

superior, making friends. It's the way we are. We also have mentoring programs,

We also have mentoring programs, to prepare the mentors, to

to prepare the mentors, to we prepare the activities and adapt them

we prepare the activities and adapt them as much as possible so that they can be

as much as possible so that they can be fact hh

fact hh the best moments in life.

the best moments in life. Finally, the process, the inclusion in

Finally, the process, the inclusion in higher education is an ethic in

higher education is an ethic in movement, it is in fact a process

movement, it is in fact a process demanding, it's an unfinished process, it is

demanding, it's an unfinished process, it is profoundly human,

profoundly human, It requires constant reflection from all of us.

It requires constant reflection from all of us. humility,

humility, willingness to learn and ability to

willingness to learn and ability to to change.

to change. Finally, I would like to tell you that

Finally, I would like to tell you that It is done, and this, for me, is what I...

It is done, and this, for me, is what I... He has been guiding people since he was 37 years old, which is to look...

He has been guiding people since he was 37 years old, which is to look... to the other. We don't know, we don't

to the other. We don't know, we don't We want them to decide for us, we

We want them to decide for us, we We want to be heard. Therefore, we have

We want to be heard. Therefore, we have Instead of looking at the other person, we have to listen.

Instead of looking at the other person, we have to listen. We have to adapt, we have to welcome,

We have to adapt, we have to welcome, We have to share our space. Us

We have to share our space. Us We live, inclusion is lived in our

We live, inclusion is lived in our in our daily practice

in our daily practice gestures, in our decisions, in our

gestures, in our decisions, in our attitudes, in the way we value

attitudes, in the way we value People, each one of us. And she

People, each one of us. And she It is realized in policies, culture and

It is realized in policies, culture and institutional practices, but measures

institutional practices, but measures feasible, concrete, not

feasible, concrete, not declarations of intent, because they

declarations of intent, because they They're there too.

They're there too. We have to think about ourselves, the schools, and the

We have to think about ourselves, the schools, and the Higher education trains the country's decision-makers.

Higher education trains the country's decision-makers. They are our future decision-makers. And having

They are our future decision-makers. And having also taking into account what we have already heard, it is

also taking into account what we have already heard, it is worrying. We have to create

worrying. We have to create in fact an inclusive environment. We have to

in fact an inclusive environment. We have to Educating with and for difference. We have to

Educating with and for difference. We have to effectively forming conscious citizens

effectively forming conscious citizens and supportive, promoting inclusion,

and supportive, promoting inclusion, because it's not just about teaching, it's about

because it's not just about teaching, it's about Humanism, human rights and citizenship.

Humanism, human rights and citizenship. Thanks.

Thanks. [applause]

Very good, very good.

very good. What a great 37 years! H,

What a great 37 years! H, very good. Thank you very much, professor.

very good. Thank you very much, professor. Lília Pires.

Lília Pires. Curriculum, pedagogy and assessment.

Curriculum, pedagogy and assessment. perspectives for diversity and for

perspectives for diversity and for inclusion. I now pass the word to the professor.

inclusion. I now pass the word to the professor. Domingues Fernandes.

Domingues Fernandes. Well, good morning to everyone. Eh,

Well, good morning to everyone. Eh, I naturally wanted to begin by saying hello.

I naturally wanted to begin by saying hello. my esteemed colleagues of

my esteemed colleagues of table.

table. I wanted to say thank you.

I wanted to say thank you. The honorable invitation is highly appreciated.

The honorable invitation is highly appreciated. that I was directed to be here

that I was directed to be here with you this morning. Eh,

I have a particular admiration for work of this excellent institution,

work of this excellent institution, Eh,

Eh, that Professor António Teodoro

that Professor António Teodoro he managed to gather around him

he managed to gather around him excellent quality teachers,

excellent quality teachers, excellent quality investigators

excellent quality investigators And I have great admiration for them, I repeat,

And I have great admiration for them, I repeat, for the work that is done here

for the work that is done here very prestigious for the university,

very prestigious for the university, for the people who work there.

for the people who work there. AND

AND Therefore, I am very grateful and it is with much

Therefore, I am very grateful and it is with much I'm so glad I'm here.

I'm so glad I'm here. I,

I, David just picked up something that I

David just picked up something that I I apologize,

I apologize, But I can't miss a meeting.

But I can't miss a meeting. of education, in a meeting of people

of education, in a meeting of people concerned about the values they have here

concerned about the values they have here coming to be expressed, namely

coming to be expressed, namely in this last intervention,

in this last intervention, Fantastic intervention by Dr. Lília

Fantastic intervention by Dr. Lília Pires talking about things that nobody

Pires talking about things that nobody he speaks. of the things that are kicked to

he speaks. of the things that are kicked to Under the rugs.

Eh, I cannot help but mention here the

I cannot help but mention here the In memory of Dr. and Álvaro Laborinho

In memory of Dr. and Álvaro Laborinho Pike

Pike who left us yesterday.

who left us yesterday. It's a huge loss for the country.

It's a huge loss for the country. It's an example.

It's an example. Well, in whatever remains for me in

Well, in whatever remains for me in My life, I won't stop thinking.

My life, I won't stop thinking. in his example,

in his example, of a thinker, of a philosopher. I think that

of a thinker, of a philosopher. I think that He was a philosopher.

He was a philosopher. an educator, I also think he was one.

an educator, I also think he was one. educator who spoke about education, who

educator who spoke about education, who Very few people talk about Portugal.

Very few people talk about Portugal. a progressive man,

a progressive man, a democrat

a democrat deep

deep And above all, a humanist.

And above all, a humanist. And I found,

I had, I, I, I apologize for being with,

I, I, I apologize for being with, With this, perhaps I'm crushing the...

With this, perhaps I'm crushing the... Okay, folks, but I'll finish this part now.

Okay, folks, but I'll finish this part now. I was unable to do it today because I am

I was unable to do it today because I am deeply shocked as David is

deeply shocked as David is And like many of us will be, whoever

And like many of us will be, whoever I met him, and I had the enormous privilege of knowing him.

I met him, and I had the enormous privilege of knowing him. It's a great privilege to spend time with him. AND

It's a great privilege to spend time with him. AND The last time I was with him was in

The last time I was with him was in University of Minho, at the Biennial of

University of Minho, at the Biennial of Education, which I think he was...

Education, which I think he was... very much related to that. In July,

very much related to that. In July, He told me he had something.

He told me he had something. Whatever, but it was fine. A man

Whatever, but it was fine. A man who ran through the country guiding his own

who ran through the country guiding his own car from one side to the other and go

car from one side to the other and go Schools everywhere.

Schools everywhere. A lasting inspiration, a sense of

A lasting inspiration, a sense of humor, of an absolutely intelligent

humor, of an absolutely intelligent extraordinary.

extraordinary. Ké had the great privilege, the great

Ké had the great privilege, the great honor

honor to have it in some of the initiatives of

to have it in some of the initiatives of National Council of Education.

National Council of Education. And I wanted to leave this record here.

And I wanted to leave this record here. as a form

as a form to honor him

to honor him and tell him that I already feel many

and tell him that I already feel many longing

longing It's his.

It's his. I will always miss him very much.

I will always miss him very much. Please forgive me once again for this.

Please forgive me once again for this. inroito

inroito and moving on to the questions that

and moving on to the questions that They bring me here,

They bring me here, I think diversity is a

I think diversity is a a concept that has always existed, it is a

a concept that has always existed, it is a an almost natural concept that reminds us

an almost natural concept that reminds us for human nature and for these

for human nature and for these aspects. the differences that exist

aspects. the differences that exist between us when we enter the school.

between us when we enter the school. But

But democracies,

democracies They allowed it and have continued to allow it.

educational systems receive more and more

more and more most diverse origins

most diverse origins of

of other countries,

other countries, people today

people today with different ethnicities,

with different ethnicities, with different backgrounds

with different backgrounds sociocultural,

with different religions. I

I I started my activity, I...

I started my activity, I... I taught for about 50 years.

in Elvas. And in the late 1980s,

And in the late 1980s, I was finishing my doctorate.

I was finishing my doctorate. in the United States. I had a supervisor,

in the United States. I had a supervisor, a co-advisor from California. At the time

a co-advisor from California. At the time there was

there was uh Zoom, so it was like that

uh Zoom, so it was like that strange thing, because it was a

strange thing, because it was a telephone with a built-in speaker and

telephone with a built-in speaker and He's in California and we're in Texas, right?

He's in California and we're in Texas, right? And he was talking, but I wasn't listening, was I?

And he was talking, but I wasn't listening, was I? which was something that happened a bit later, I...

which was something that happened a bit later, I... to present a PowerPoint presentation defending your work and such.

to present a PowerPoint presentation defending your work and such. And he had PowerPoint there, and I...

And he had PowerPoint there, and I... I had sent it to him and at the time he

I had sent it to him and at the time he He mentioned something he wants to tell me,

He mentioned something he wants to tell me, I was impressed. He said:

I was impressed. He said: "I'm conducting an investigation here in

"I'm conducting an investigation here in San Jose, California,

San Jose, California, in a class that has 17 different ethnicities.

in a class that has 17 different ethnicities. There are young people, young, I mean, that here

There are young people, young, I mean, that here In Portugal, it was an absolutely...

In Portugal, it was an absolutely... unthinkable. I mean, no, nobody

unthinkable. I mean, no, nobody I was thinking about that. Therefore, from this point of

I was thinking about that. Therefore, from this point of From that perspective, we lacked diversity.

From that perspective, we lacked diversity. Because it has always existed, hasn't it?

Because it has always existed, hasn't it? Naturally,

Naturally, and we also had a lot of diversity

and we also had a lot of diversity marked by socioeconomic origin

marked by socioeconomic origin of the young

of the young and the children.

and the children. But we didn't have this diversity that

But we didn't have this diversity that many countries had a lot of first-time experiences.

many countries had a lot of first-time experiences. That's us, isn't it?

That's us, isn't it? Eh,

Eh, It is clear that this diversity

This poses a problem for democracies. to democratic countries, where people

to democratic countries, where people They can say and share their

They can say and share their opinions, however harsh they may be

opinions, however harsh they may be before the rulers, but they can,

before the rulers, but they can, because there are many countries where not

because there are many countries where not they can.

they can. And if we look closely at the countries

And if we look closely at the countries autocratic

autocratic and for dictatorships,

and for dictatorships, We don't have the diversity that we have.

We don't have the diversity that we have. in truly democratic countries,

in truly democratic countries, as we understand it under a

as we understand it under a capitalist society, etc. Everything, without

capitalist society, etc. Everything, without doubt. But I don't know him, nor does anyone else.

doubt. But I don't know him, nor does anyone else. I think you know of a system that

I think you know of a system that allow it, in fact, because only the systems

allow it, in fact, because only the systems It is democratic people who have this great

It is democratic people who have this great The challenge of inclusion. Why? Let's see,

The challenge of inclusion. Why? Let's see, Portugal, despite all the

Portugal, despite all the difficulties,

difficulties, Our country does not deny entry into

Our country does not deny entry into schools for all boys and girls,

schools for all boys and girls, all the young people who come from different

all the young people who come from different countries of the world

countries of the world in search of a better of the best

in search of a better of the best living conditions, in search of that

living conditions, in search of that that their countries, for various reasons,

that their countries, for various reasons, They are unable to provide it for them.

They are unable to provide it for them. Therefore, I would say that there is a

Therefore, I would say that there is a relationship

relationship between democracy, as we know it

between democracy, as we know it We understand in the Western world,

We understand in the Western world, and diversity

and diversity and

and Naturally, inclusion.

Naturally, inclusion. Because, therefore, I see here this

Because, therefore, I see here this This triangle, isn't it, in which the

This triangle, isn't it, in which the democracy

democracy and inclusion are linked to

and inclusion are linked to development of democracies and in

development of democracies and in world.

world. Of course, this raises a question here.

Of course, this raises a question here. ideological problem

ideological problem Significant, isn't it? that's it

Significant, isn't it? that's it or a problem

or a problem that ideology

that ideology it brings us. Therefore, the question is to know

it brings us. Therefore, the question is to know if ideology reaches us, let's say, in

if ideology reaches us, let's say, in In very broad terms, ideology

In very broad terms, ideology democratic

democratic and the knowledge gained through experience, let's say

and the knowledge gained through experience, let's say like this.

like this. In other words, notice that

In other words, notice that any educational process is

any educational process is naturally based on a set of

naturally based on a set of social values and a set of

social values and a set of Political values, right? Without a doubt it is

Political values, right? Without a doubt it is Yes, these are social values, they are

Yes, these are social values, they are these political values,

these political values, forgiveness, which makes us have a

forgiveness, which makes us have a a particular attitude. For example, let's go.

a particular attitude. For example, let's go. speaking of in relation to Portuguese

speaking of in relation to Portuguese non-native language. it starts

Of these values, I am thinking of values

values democratic,

democratic, that we have this, we have a certain

that we have this, we have a certain A vision of what Portuguese should be.

A vision of what Portuguese should be. of a non-native language, because we have a

of a non-native language, because we have a the view that we have to make an effort

the view that we have to make an effort significant in Portuguese society and

significant in Portuguese society and now restricting this here to society

now restricting this here to society Portuguese to integrate children and

Portuguese to integrate children and young people who come from different countries and

young people who come from different countries and Those who don't speak don't master the language.

Those who don't speak don't master the language. Portuguese. So why? Why

Portuguese. So why? Why We also think, those who are

We also think, those who are Democrats, those who are...

Democrats, those who are... humanists,

humanists, what our dear Álvaro was like

what our dear Álvaro was like Laborinho Lúcio, whom I forgot about

Laborinho Lúcio, whom I forgot about I mean, but he had a role.

I mean, but he had a role. absolutely fundamental in Portugal

absolutely fundamental in Portugal to have, let's say, a statute

to have, let's say, a statute Child's legal rights, I don't know if that's how it works.

Child's legal rights, I don't know if that's how it works. It is said, but he gave, the child

It is said, but he gave, the child it became a legal entity, no

it became a legal entity, no became a young man, an adult.

became a young man, an adult. Smaller, isn't it? as was the custom

Smaller, isn't it? as was the custom I mean, right? No, he had that role.

I mean, right? No, he had that role. and therefore we

and therefore we We want inclusion.

We want inclusion. because we know that the inclusion of

because we know that the inclusion of For children and young people, it will be a step

For children and young people, it will be a step absolutely fundamental for their

absolutely fundamental for their their own parents to integrate into society

their own parents to integrate into society Portuguese. Speaking of society

Portuguese. Speaking of society Portuguese, it is, let's say, the first, to a

Portuguese, it is, let's say, the first, to a a very important step. That's why the

a very important step. That's why the The National Education Council is a

The National Education Council is a A bit is uneasy and has already expressed it.

A bit is uneasy and has already expressed it. this concern, because the coverage of

this concern, because the coverage of Portuguese as a non-native language is

Portuguese as a non-native language is far from answering the real

far from answering the real needs. You see, it's a

needs. You see, it's a A child being in school, not mastering the

A child being in school, not mastering the Portuguese and there is no support there, no

Portuguese and there is no support there, no and? Therefore, this raises problems.

and? Therefore, this raises problems. serious issues for the country and are, in fact, questions

serious issues for the country and are, in fact, questions which need to be addressed. I was

which need to be addressed. I was to speak about ideology.

to speak about ideology. Therefore, ideology leads us to have a

Therefore, ideology leads us to have a a certain view of what integration is

a certain view of what integration is children in schools, of the children

children in schools, of the children immigrants, but it also gives us an insight

immigrants, but it also gives us an insight about what integration is

about what integration is It's the young Portuguese people who come from

It's the young Portuguese people who come from means

means depressed from a cultural point of view,

depressed from a cultural point of view, social and economic. That was one thing

social and economic. That was one thing which has always existed, because what we

which has always existed, because what we We have it in Portugal, and we still have it.

We have it in Portugal, and we still have it. Unfortunately, more than 50 years have passed.

Unfortunately, more than 50 years have passed. April 25th is an education.

April 25th is an education. which is very much geared towards entry into

which is very much geared towards entry into higher education right from the

higher education right from the first cycle of education

first cycle of education basic, where the 77% and 87% begin, and

basic, where the 77% and 87% begin, and you have four and you have three and you have two and one and

you have four and you have three and you have two and one and I don't know what. That you are the best in the class,

I don't know what. That you are the best in the class, etc. It begins in the first cycle of education.

etc. It begins in the first cycle of education. basic and then there's a sort of one, I

basic and then there's a sort of one, I I see it as a kind of...

I see it as a kind of... straw where everyone goes through there

straw where everyone goes through there a certain layer

a certain layer of Portuguese people, of young people and children

of Portuguese people, of young people and children Portuguese, that everything is oriented

Portuguese, that everything is oriented for them to enter education

for them to enter education superior. Of course, perhaps this is

superior. Of course, perhaps this is a bit of an exaggeration, but the truth is that

a bit of an exaggeration, but the truth is that We still have many young people, thousands.

We still have many young people, thousands. of young people who do not pursue this

of young people who do not pursue this path and that are excluded or

path and that are excluded or segregated and worse still, they are segregated

segregated and worse still, they are segregated and excluded in the very first years of

and excluded in the very first years of education. That's what it is!

education. That's what it is! Extraordinary, isn't it? Soon we

Extraordinary, isn't it? Soon we Early years, right? We have

Early years, right? We have children who reach the fourth year of

children who reach the fourth year of schooling without knowing how to read and write.

schooling without knowing how to read and write. This is one thing, anyway, I'm not even going to...

This is one thing, anyway, I'm not even going to... to say what I think about it,

to say what I think about it, Because what I would say was very shocking.

Because what I would say was very shocking. here. I have no words but to

here. I have no words but to shocking to say what I

shocking to say what I I feel about that. And sometimes in

I feel about that. And sometimes in 5th grade,

5th grade, And now I'm going to say something, I don't want to

And now I'm going to say something, I don't want to jcar nobody, in quotation marks, many quotation marks,

jcar nobody, in quotation marks, many quotation marks, They are normal children, they don't have any problems.

They are normal children, they don't have any problems. nor needs

nor needs special health conditions, as there are many

special health conditions, as there are many children who have problems

children who have problems deep cognitive or intermediate or not

deep cognitive or intermediate or not These are the children who have none.

These are the children who have none. diagnosis, but not those kinds of diagnoses.

diagnosis, but not those kinds of diagnoses. They belong to others and, therefore, they are not

They belong to others and, therefore, they are not included by and simply the system

included by and simply the system Portuguese educational system. And so it happens in

Portuguese educational system. And so it happens in other countries, in other democracies.

other countries, in other democracies. This is a fight we have to have. AND

This is a fight we have to have. AND a fight. And where am I going with this?

a fight. And where am I going with this? Naturally

Naturally I don't want them to think that I didn't do the

I don't want them to think that I didn't do the Homework, right? I.e,

Homework, right? I.e, What I think is that, and going back a

What I think is that, and going back a a little while ago,

a little while ago, the question

the question as a rule, there is a problem here in which the

as a rule, there is a problem here in which the ideology

and the experience of people or experiential knowledge

of people or experiential knowledge done, as is often said, will be

done, as is often said, will be sufficient for us to face these

sufficient for us to face these challenges, in order to face the challenge of

challenges, in order to face the challenge of diversity and to face the challenge

diversity and to face the challenge from the

from the inclusion.

inclusion. I don't think so.

I don't think so. I don't think so, because something is missing here.

I don't think so, because something is missing here. component that is normally handled with

component that is normally handled with some carelessness throughout all of

some carelessness throughout all of countries and especially policies

countries and especially policies public, which is

public, which is knowledge,

knowledge, as L Schulman told us

as L Schulman told us There has been more for about 40 years.

There has been more for about 40 years. the teachers, the professors, the

the teachers, the professors, the Education professionals have three types

Education professionals have three types knowledge that is absolutely

knowledge that is absolutely fundamentals

fundamentals And what is knowledge naturally?

And what is knowledge naturally? of the discipline or disciplines that

of the discipline or disciplines that People teach. Therefore, the

People teach. Therefore, the in-depth knowledge

in-depth knowledge of a scientific field or fields

of a scientific field or fields scientific

scientific It is absolutely unavoidable and

It is absolutely unavoidable and Absolutely fundamental.

Absolutely fundamental. But then there's the knowledge.

But then there's the knowledge. pedagogical.

pedagogical. The pedagogical knowledge that was

The pedagogical knowledge that was recently discovered in education

recently discovered in education superior, especially from Bologna,

superior, especially from Bologna, it is not? Or what's it called?

it is not? Or what's it called? Bologna Treaty, it's not a treaty, it's the

Bologna Treaty, it's not a treaty, it's the Bologna process and/or the declaration of

Bologna process and/or the declaration of Bologna, perhaps. It was from there that

Bologna, perhaps. It was from there that all universities have

all universities have departments somehow connected to

departments somehow connected to The question of pedagogy. It was from there

The question of pedagogy. It was from there that we have, and rightly so, the CNAPS in Portugal and

that we have, and rightly so, the CNAPS in Portugal and other initiatives. Lots of

other initiatives. Lots of universities do indeed have a

universities do indeed have a growing concern

growing concern this level. And notice, the knowledge

this level. And notice, the knowledge pedagogical, as L. Schulman said,

pedagogical, as L. Schulman said, it is not?

it is not? Eh,

Eh, It's indispensable, it is, it's part of that.

It's indispensable, it is, it's part of that. of that triad that he defined

of that triad that he defined knowledge, because there is a lack of it here

knowledge, because there is a lack of it here pedagogical content knowledge, not

pedagogical content knowledge, not and? In other words, the pedagogical knowledge of

and? In other words, the pedagogical knowledge of mathematics, if you will, or knowledge

mathematics, if you will, or knowledge pedagogical of science or of the sciences

pedagogical of science or of the sciences experimental or philosophical or of

experimental or philosophical or of Arts, whatever they may be, right? uh, that's

Arts, whatever they may be, right? uh, that's which is what allows a teacher not to

which is what allows a teacher not to Yes, be able to share with the

Yes, be able to share with the your students and capable of engaging them.

your students and capable of engaging them. in a set of challenges, isn't it, of

in a set of challenges, isn't it, of so that they learn physics or

so that they learn physics or chemistry or the questions that arise

chemistry or the questions that arise in the arts or the questions that arise

in the arts or the questions that arise In physical education, it isn't, and so on.

In physical education, it isn't, and so on. outside. And therefore, what is evidently

outside. And therefore, what is evidently which brings us back to the question and

which brings us back to the question and From pedagogy, right? Oh, and it reminds us

From pedagogy, right? Oh, and it reminds us to one thing or another, right?

to one thing or another, right? What kind, what kind of teacher?

What kind, what kind of teacher? It's that these visions...

It's that these visions... Eh,

Eh, What type of teacher profile do we have?

What type of teacher profile do we have? We should have it, shouldn't we? We have to have

We should have it, shouldn't we? We have to have teachers who are proficient in these

teachers who are proficient in these knowledge and other things, I'm just...

knowledge and other things, I'm just... I'm referring to lixulma here, but there are others.

I'm referring to lixulma here, but there are others. knowledge, naturally,

knowledge, naturally, curricular knowledge, the knowledge

curricular knowledge, the knowledge of the psychological development of

of the psychological development of of young people and children, etc. But

of young people and children, etc. But joining me here, these three, ah, here the

joining me here, these three, ah, here the Pedagogical knowledge is a kind of

Pedagogical knowledge is a kind of spinal column, I don't know, one or

spinal column, I don't know, one or backbone, isn't it? eh da da

backbone, isn't it? eh da da professional identity of a teacher,

professional identity of a teacher, From his perspective on the matter, it is...

From his perspective on the matter, it is... starting from this pedagogical knowledge

starting from this pedagogical knowledge that he or she does not create the conditions for

that he or she does not create the conditions for so that everyone

so that everyone those who are in schools, all without

those who are in schools, all without exception,

exception, so they can learn and go so far

so they can learn and go so far as for their abilities, the

as for their abilities, the their motivations, etc., allow them,

their motivations, etc., allow them, it is not? And this naturally leads to visions.

it is not? And this naturally leads to visions. of substantially different teaching methods. AND

of substantially different teaching methods. AND Of course, this is linked to ideology.

Of course, this is linked to ideology. The issue is that ideology

The issue is that ideology It gives us broad guidelines,

It gives us broad guidelines, It gives us values, it gives us principles.

It gives us values, it gives us principles. It gives us a philosophy, if you'll allow me to...

It gives us a philosophy, if you'll allow me to... expression, of what school is, of

expression, of what school is, of What is the relationship between people within?

What is the relationship between people within? from school, what is the relationship

from school, what is the relationship among the teachers, among the professors

among the teachers, among the professors And the students, what is management?

And the students, what is management? For inclusion, for diversity. THE

For inclusion, for diversity. THE Management is absolutely fundamental, not

Management is absolutely fundamental, not and? Therefore, ideology gives us this.

and? Therefore, ideology gives us this. Everything, but it doesn't tell us how.

Everything, but it doesn't tell us how. It doesn't make us reflect on how...

It doesn't make us reflect on how... I teach this piece of music, what is it that

I teach this piece of music, what is it that I make this musical piece with these

I make this musical piece with these children or with these what do I

children or with these what do I I do this with this painting, with this picture.

I do this with this painting, with this picture. or with this sculpture

or with this sculpture so that my students can discuss what it is.

so that my students can discuss what it is. that exists and that they envision art.

that exists and that they envision art. In a certain way. It is not? Therefore, and

In a certain way. It is not? Therefore, and Ideology doesn't give us that.

Ideology doesn't give us that. I don't know if I'm being clear. Therefore,

I don't know if I'm being clear. Therefore, Ideology is extremely important.

Ideology is extremely important. because we will always, always have

because we will always, always have as has already been made very clear, both in

as has already been made very clear, both in David's intervention, they may not have

David's intervention, they may not have spoken as I am speaking,

spoken as I am speaking, We are naturally different and we have

We are naturally different and we have we are looking at things from

we are looking at things from different angles. But it's already been here

different angles. But it's already been here spoken by, by, by Dr. Líharia and and

spoken by, by, by Dr. Líharia and and By Professor David Rodrigues, right?

By Professor David Rodrigues, right? Well, there's, let's say, here,

Well, there's, let's say, here, an ideological component that cannot

an ideological component that cannot to cease to exist. And we will always have

to cease to exist. And we will always have tensions and we're going to have to deal with these

tensions and we're going to have to deal with these tensions because there are many good people who

tensions because there are many good people who thinks that PLNM doesn't matter,

thinks that PLNM doesn't matter, because there are many good people who think that

because there are many good people who think that children with special needs

children with special needs health professionals should be in hospitals or

health professionals should be in hospitals or They should be at the back in the rear,

They should be at the back in the rear, it is not? Of course I'm not the

it is not? Of course I'm not the absolutely obsessed defender of what

absolutely obsessed defender of what Whatever it is, right? But especially

Whatever it is, right? But especially Article 54 of Decree-Law 54, which is a large

Article 54 of Decree-Law 54, which is a large civilizational leap.

civilizational leap. From my point of view, decree law 54,

From my point of view, decree law 54, which is what defines the legal status

which is what defines the legal status of inclusion, right?

of inclusion, right? From my point of view, it's a leap.

From my point of view, it's a leap. civilizational, but naturally it could

civilizational, but naturally it could there will be some issues there that will have to

there will be some issues there that will have to to be thought about or rethought, because there are

to be thought about or rethought, because there are very complex factual situations in

very complex factual situations in schools with a certain type of

schools with a certain type of children, but most children,

children, but most children, notice,

notice, This is a real issue that we...

This is a real issue that we... We go to the field a lot. I am already there

We go to the field a lot. I am already there spend more time, right? I'm going to finish.

spend more time, right? I'm going to finish. We go very far into the field, we're in the know about what it is,

We go very far into the field, we're in the know about what it is, I have a group of people

I have a group of people extraordinary that goes, does studies of

extraordinary that goes, does studies of home in schools, etc. And there is a situation

home in schools, etc. And there is a situation in a school, in a room where the

in a school, in a room where the The teacher is very nice.

The teacher is very nice. naturally, because people don't

naturally, because people don't They do it on purpose, don't they? People do

They do it on purpose, don't they? People do due to lack of knowledge, they often do

due to lack of knowledge, they often do Out of ignorance, isn't it? And then, ah,

Out of ignorance, isn't it? And then, ah, These are my students and stuff, okay?

These are my students and stuff, okay? We have here these 17 or 18 students and so on and

We have here these 17 or 18 students and so on and then we have that one over there,

then we have that one over there, Wow, this is something

Wow, this is something after hearing what we have here

after hearing what we have here We heard, didn't we? It's a thing

We heard, didn't we? It's a thing Truly extraordinary, isn't it?

Truly extraordinary, isn't it? We have there the one who, well, uh,

We have there the one who, well, uh, ready. Now, this is indeed because

ready. Now, this is indeed because counterpoint,

counterpoint, We have been to schools where the boys and

We have been to schools where the boys and girls with special needs

girls with special needs health coexist,

health coexist, they coexist,

they coexist, They go to recess, they weren't going, but there was

They go to recess, they weren't going, but there was In a project, there was a teacher who

In a project, there was a teacher who Things got moving, didn't they? And they

Things got moving, didn't they? And they they started living with the boys

they started living with the boys so-called normal.

so-called normal. And the so-called normal boys won.

And the so-called normal boys won. immense with this experience and the others

immense with this experience and the others The boys laughed and smiled and felt

The boys laughed and smiled and felt Happy, aren't they? And so here, I

Happy, aren't they? And so here, I I don't have time, do I? Because there is here

I don't have time, do I? Because there is here a pedagogical issue. Pedagogy is

a pedagogical issue. Pedagogy is absolutely crucial because it is she who

absolutely crucial because it is she who She organizes us, she's the one who helps us to

She organizes us, she's the one who helps us to organizing the teaching, she is the one who helps us

organizing the teaching, she is the one who helps us in developing the curriculum, it is she who...

in developing the curriculum, it is she who... helps to understand the differences between

helps to understand the differences between people and, above all, it is she who

people and, above all, it is she who gives us the heuristic instruments that

gives us the heuristic instruments that They allow you to create environments that are

They allow you to create environments that are environments of joy, of learning,

environments of joy, of learning, of affection, of humanity, no. It's not, but

of affection, of humanity, no. It's not, but always very demanding. These are environments

always very demanding. These are environments necessarily demanding,

necessarily demanding, That's what Labor Lúcio was.

That's what Labor Lúcio was. He was a demanding, democratic man.

He was a demanding, democratic man. Progressive, but very demanding. And we

Progressive, but very demanding. And we we need a lot of demands in

we need a lot of demands in education, because this is a challenge

education, because this is a challenge civilizational,

civilizational, we are able to integrate everyone

we are able to integrate everyone those who arrive at school today. And who

those who arrive at school today. And who It allowed them to get to school.

It allowed them to get to school. Democracy. We are, I am

Democracy. We are, I am Let's talk only about Portugal now, but this is

Let's talk only about Portugal now, but this is similar to what happens in other

similar to what happens in other countries. It was in democratic countries that

countries. It was in democratic countries that I know that it is being built and is still being built.

I know that it is being built and is still being built. the democratic education systems in

the democratic education systems in Portugal. That's clear. What we

Portugal. That's clear. What we We walked all the way here, what were we?

We walked all the way here, what were we? capable of doing, which is recognized by

capable of doing, which is recognized by all national instances and

all national instances and Credible international organizations, not just empty promises.

Credible international organizations, not just empty promises. of the days, it's not the shouting in the newspapers

of the days, it's not the shouting in the newspapers or the shouting on television, it's not because

or the shouting on television, it's not because those who study things, because

those who study things, because those who care about

those who care about development of societies. All the

development of societies. All the They acknowledge it. We did a great job.

They acknowledge it. We did a great job. progress, but we always have a lot to do.

progress, but we always have a lot to do. To fight, always a lot to work for. AND

To fight, always a lot to work for. AND I believe this because

I believe this because For 50 years I have been privileged.

For 50 years I have been privileged. because I lived with many people with whom

because I lived with many people with whom I learned a great deal, didn't I? And I

I learned a great deal, didn't I? And I I learned

I learned what

what the teachers, the female teachers, the

the teachers, the female teachers, the Schools can make a difference.

Schools can make a difference. I emphasize the teachers, the female teachers,

I emphasize the teachers, the female teachers, all the educators, the technicians. Today,

all the educators, the technicians. Today, Today we are thankfully adding technicians.

Today we are thankfully adding technicians. in schools. There are still few, but they already exist.

in schools. There are still few, but they already exist. It didn't exist in my time, it didn't exist.

It didn't exist in my time, it didn't exist. Absolutely nothing, right? it's when I

Absolutely nothing, right? it's when I I started teaching, and that's one thing.

I started teaching, and that's one thing. relatively recent, psychologists,

relatively recent, psychologists, animation technicians, and mediators

animation technicians, and mediators linguistic and cultural, all of these are

linguistic and cultural, all of these are additions that, little by little, of

additions that, little by little, of In some way, public policies will

In some way, public policies will Introducing it in schools. And therefore,

Introducing it in schools. And therefore, all these people can do the

all these people can do the difference. I am underlining this.

difference. I am underlining this. why? because there are people here

why? because there are people here young, very young, and most of them are

young, very young, and most of them are Young, but the problem is theirs. As it says

Young, but the problem is theirs. As it says There's David Rodrigues, now the least

There's David Rodrigues, now the least Young people like me, uh, still still

Young people like me, uh, still still They remember the great debates and what

They remember the great debates and what They studied about Basis Bernstein or

They studied about Basis Bernstein or Passeron. And even the the the

Passeron. And even the the the from the evaluation, the Pernu Pernu Lidalal and

from the evaluation, the Pernu Pernu Lidalal and other European thinkers

other European thinkers That's not true, but there was.

That's not true, but there was. especially from a group of

especially from a group of thinkers here in Europe

thinkers here in Europe which was simultaneous, it was more than 50 years ago.

which was simultaneous, it was more than 50 years ago. years, which was simultaneous with the report

years, which was simultaneous with the report Colman in the United States, in which one of the

Colman in the United States, in which one of the Colman was a sociology professor at

Colman was a sociology professor at University of Chicago, a large

University of Chicago, a large The university, even today, is a great institution.

The university, even today, is a great institution. university. And Colman did a study.

university. And Colman did a study. In conclusion, I'm not going, I'm not going.

In conclusion, I'm not going, I'm not going. I don't even have time to massacre them.

I don't even have time to massacre them. where the conclusion was that schools did not

where the conclusion was that schools did not They make all the difference. This gave rise to,

They make all the difference. This gave rise to, Schools don't make a difference. To the

Schools don't make a difference. To the schools simply reproduce the

schools simply reproduce the social inequalities,

social inequalities, it is not? And this is what we have to do

it is not? And this is what we have to do to ask questions when we enter a school,

to ask questions when we enter a school, when we decide to become teachers, when

when we decide to become teachers, when We are teachers. Are we...

We are teachers. Are we... Will it make a difference or not? Or we are

Will it make a difference or not? Or we are simply contributing to

simply contributing to reproduce the social inequalities that

reproduce the social inequalities that They still persist in societies.

They still persist in societies. Democratic, right? I have to

Democratic, right? I have to to finish.

to finish. And that's it.

And that's it. And to finish,

And to finish, uh, and therefore, h,

uh, and therefore, h, They said that, that they didn't do it.

They said that, that they didn't do it. difference, but then Basilbernstein,

difference, but then Basilbernstein, and I'll finish quickly, the

and I'll finish quickly, the Basilbernstein wrote something

Basilbernstein wrote something Like this.

Like this. Well, if we have them, the schools can't

Well, if we have them, the schools can't doing it doesn't make a difference, but if

doing it doesn't make a difference, but if us

us we have, if people have developed

we have, if people have developed a certain view of pedagogy,

a certain view of pedagogy, if people develop a certain

if people develop a certain resume overview and whether people

resume overview and whether people developing a certain view of

developing a certain view of evaluation, what is the triangle that

evaluation, what is the triangle that It has been with me for 50 years, I crush the

It has been with me for 50 years, I crush the people with this triangle.

people with this triangle. There's been a lot of time. Those who me

There's been a lot of time. Those who me They already heard, they already know, they already know before.

They already heard, they already know, they already know before. that I never stop talking

that I never stop talking in this, regardless of the issue that

in this, regardless of the issue that it will address, because it's something that

it will address, because it's something that guided my academic life and

guided my academic life and professional. Therefore, he said

professional. Therefore, he said Bernstein, if we have another

Bernstein, if we have another a vision of each of these domains of

a vision of each of these domains of knowledge, then schools will be able to

knowledge, then schools will be able to to make a difference. And I believe, I am

to make a difference. And I believe, I am of those perhaps naive or cunning

of those perhaps naive or cunning "Papudo," as we used to say in my hometown,

"Papudo," as we used to say in my hometown, I'm a big-mouthed little engineer who believes

I'm a big-mouthed little engineer who believes In that. Do you believe that we, those who

In that. Do you believe that we, those who are in this room and many others like

are in this room and many others like We are capable of making a difference.

We are capable of making a difference. to achieve this, we must combine an ideology.

to achieve this, we must combine an ideology. Open, progressive, democratic, isn't it?

Open, progressive, democratic, isn't it? with

with one

one a vision

a vision It's about pedagogy.

It's about pedagogy. curriculum and evaluation

curriculum and evaluation that contributes to inclusion being

that contributes to inclusion being a reality, so that everyone can

a reality, so that everyone can learn according to your

learn according to your capabilities. And that's all for now. Very

capabilities. And that's all for now. Very thanks.

thanks. [applause]

Well, thank you very much, Professor Domingos. Thank you all very much. We will pass

Thank you all very much. We will pass The floor, then, is now open to the audience.

The floor, then, is now open to the audience. We still have,

We still have, time and we agreed uh at this table

time and we agreed uh at this table speak less so I can listen to you and

speak less so I can listen to you and so that we can be.

He had asked to speak here. First, teacher. Just a moment, just

First, teacher. Just a moment, just one moment.

one moment. Hello, good morning to everyone present.

Hello, good morning to everyone present. I am Francisco Júnior, I am a student of

I am Francisco Júnior, I am a student of Master's degree from the University of Évora,

Master's degree from the University of Évora, sandwich master's program, and I am also

sandwich master's program, and I am also university employee, I think as

university employee, I think as You call here, employee of

You call here, employee of University of the State of Rio Grande

University of the State of Rio Grande North, in Brazil. And firstly

North, in Brazil. And firstly I would like to congratulate the panel for

I would like to congratulate the panel for Excellent explanations.

Excellent explanations. And the topic of my research is

And the topic of my research is recognition and inclusion of people with

recognition and inclusion of people with shortcomings of public higher education

shortcomings of public higher education in Brazil and in Portugal. And then I am

in Brazil and in Portugal. And then I am conducting a case study on the subject

conducting a case study on the subject University of Évora and at the University

University of Évora and at the University from the State of Rio Grande do Norte, which

from the State of Rio Grande do Norte, which where I study and work as a civil servant. So the

where I study and work as a civil servant. So the My question would be regarding which...

My question would be regarding which... These are the main challenges faced.

These are the main challenges faced. to achieve the inclusion of people with

to achieve the inclusion of people with deficiency? And that's when I refer to

deficiency? And that's when I refer to inclusion, not just access, but also to

inclusion, not just access, but also to staying so that no one incurs

staying so that no one incurs guarantee access to university and

guarantee access to university and Then comes school dropout.

Then comes school dropout. So, that's why I'm referring to access and

So, that's why I'm referring to access and permanence of people with disabilities

permanence of people with disabilities in public higher education in Portugal.

in public higher education in Portugal. And once again, thank you very much.

And once again, thank you very much. Very good. Maybe we do.

Very good. Maybe we do. the questions. Exactly. We make three

the questions. Exactly. We make three questions. AND

Hello, I'm Camila Munhai, a teacher at UNESP of Marília, São Paulo, Brazil. Eh,

UNESP of Marília, São Paulo, Brazil. Eh, I wanted to thank you first for listening to them,

I wanted to thank you first for listening to them, right? An honor, both today and yesterday. I just don't

right? An honor, both today and yesterday. I just don't I don't know if I'll leave more desperate because I see

I don't know if I'll leave more desperate because I see that we have faced many problems

that we have faced many problems They're similar, aren't they? It's an attack on rights.

They're similar, aren't they? It's an attack on rights. humans, democracy and everything else,

humans, democracy and everything else, But I'll try to be hopeful, okay?

But I'll try to be hopeful, okay? Professor, it's with people who are

Professor, it's with people who are fighting the same battles there thinking and

fighting the same battles there thinking and debating such important things. Then,

debating such important things. Then, I thank. I wanted to ask a question.

I thank. I wanted to ask a question. For Professor Lilia. Yeah, us

For Professor Lilia. Yeah, us We are facing a very serious problem, uh,

We are facing a very serious problem, uh, I think he's also global with

I think he's also global with in relation to mental health. Eh,

in relation to mental health. Eh, Specifically in our city, we

Specifically in our city, we It has high rates of youth suicide.

It has high rates of youth suicide. Uh, I wanted to know a little more about that.

Uh, I wanted to know a little more about that. mental health program or other

mental health program or other stocks, right? Well, because what we have

stocks, right? Well, because what we have often seen as a response to

often seen as a response to illness among young people, suffering

illness among young people, suffering In terms of mental health, it's simply overmedicalization.

In terms of mental health, it's simply overmedicalization. including children. Yeah, so I wanted

including children. Yeah, so I wanted to know about other actions, right, in a

to know about other actions, right, in a A more holistic perspective that views health.

A more holistic perspective that views health. mental health, also as prevention and promotion.

mental health, also as prevention and promotion. Quality of life, right, that's what I think.

Quality of life, right, that's what I think. That's what we should do.

That's what we should do. Thanks.

Good morning. My name is Luciarda, I am researcher and professor at this institution.

researcher and professor at this institution. First of all, thank you for the

First of all, thank you for the all interventions.

all interventions. And my question goes in the direction of the new

And my question goes in the direction of the new type of integration and inclusion

type of integration and inclusion mentioned by the panel, which concerns

mentioned by the panel, which concerns an integration

an integration linguistic, cultural, ethnic, therefore

linguistic, cultural, ethnic, therefore we have been following along, both here and in this

we have been following along, both here and in this university, whether in others with whom

university, whether in others with whom We've been talking, it's a new type of

We've been talking, it's a new type of needs that exist. And when we

needs that exist. And when we we think

we think in special educational needs,

in special educational needs, I think that's a lot, not being me.

I think that's a lot, not being me. absolutely nothing from that area and not

absolutely nothing from that area and not knowing absolutely nothing about this area,

knowing absolutely nothing about this area, But I think it's a type of inclusion that's more...

But I think it's a type of inclusion that's more... easy to do, because there is some

easy to do, because there is some indication, is there any guidance, we

indication, is there any guidance, we We know what it's about. When we

We know what it's about. When we We are talking about the inclusion of young people.

We are talking about the inclusion of young people. children and young people, especially, t me

children and young people, especially, t me referring to higher education, which because it does not

referring to higher education, which because it does not to have the Portuguese language as your language.

to have the Portuguese language as your language. maternal,

maternal, The world comes to you in a different way. THE

The world comes to you in a different way. THE our way of looking at the world, of

our way of looking at the world, of to interpret the world, to feel

to interpret the world, to feel culturally, to understand

culturally, to understand Culturally, it is strictly linked.

Culturally, it is strictly linked. to our native language. And even when

to our native language. And even when we learned another language, then

we learned another language, then The ideas are not the same. Then,

The ideas are not the same. Then, I'd like to hear from the table how that works.

I'd like to hear from the table how that works. It has been discussed, what is it that

It has been discussed, what is it that What have you been thinking and doing in light of this?

What have you been thinking and doing in light of this? new reality. I

new reality. I I would also like to make a brief

I would also like to make a brief As a master's student, I'm asking this question.

As a master's student, I'm asking this question. from the Lusófona University house,

from the Lusófona University house, special education, coordinated by

special education, coordinated by dear teacher Luzia and the privilege

dear teacher Luzia and the privilege to have Professor David as a teacher,

to have Professor David as a teacher, who gave us an exceptional lesson,

who gave us an exceptional lesson, inclusive. Thank you very much, professor. Already

inclusive. Thank you very much, professor. Already I would also like to thank you for the lecture that you gave.

I would also like to thank you for the lecture that you gave. sir also spoke at the opening, saying

sir also spoke at the opening, saying with respect to inclusive education, a

with respect to inclusive education, a rights and duties of all. Very

rights and duties of all. Very Thank you, professor, for mentioning...

Thank you, professor, for mentioning... also regarding the importance of

also regarding the importance of integration

integration and inclusion. I would like you to

and inclusion. I would like you to also share a little more about

also share a little more about Those who arrived later couldn't.

Those who arrived later couldn't. to have that privilege. So good to hear the

to have that privilege. So good to hear the Sir, speak about topics that also...

Sir, speak about topics that also... important issues such as integration and inclusion

important issues such as integration and inclusion mentioned here by our colleague

mentioned here by our colleague also. And I'd also like to add a

also. And I'd also like to add a direct question for Professor Lília and

direct question for Professor Lília and I also want to thank the teacher for

I also want to thank the teacher for importance of the topic brought up here and

importance of the topic brought up here and for more than 37 years also

for more than 37 years also experience. The question is: teacher,

experience. The question is: teacher, how and in what way, what does it do?

how and in what way, what does it do? faculty of letters to train

faculty of letters to train teachers and get to know them? And how do they deal with it?

teachers and get to know them? And how do they deal with it? with teachers who don't want to change

with teachers who don't want to change Why is a room not adapted for a change?

Why is a room not adapted for a change? So, just as it shocked you, it shocked me.

So, just as it shocked you, it shocked me. also as a student, to think and reflect on whether

also as a student, to think and reflect on whether if it were a classmate of mine in

if it were a classmate of mine in university. This brings us here.

university. This brings us here. reflection and also mention the teacher

reflection and also mention the teacher Sundays. I am very grateful for your comment.

Sundays. I am very grateful for your comment. Regarding pedagogy being so crucial, then...

Regarding pedagogy being so crucial, then... as well as curriculum and evaluation. AND

as well as curriculum and evaluation. AND Thank you very much for the opportunity.

Very well, we can move on to the for the answers now or for

for the answers now or for comments. Is there one more person?

comments. Is there one more person? Yes. Okay. Who is the person? Please,

Yes. Okay. Who is the person? Please, You can raise your hand.

You can raise your hand. Francisco is asking the false

Francisco is asking the false testimony.

Ah, okay. There's nobody here.

There's nobody here. Okay, there's nobody here. Then we moved on

Okay, there's nobody here. Then we moved on to the comments from the table. Who wants

to the comments from the table. Who wants to start?

Well, first of all, thank you very much for your questions. I'll try to answer the

your questions. I'll try to answer the as concise as possible, taking into account

as concise as possible, taking into account Because it could be used for another conference.

Because it could be used for another conference. Oh, sorry, that would be for someone else.

Oh, sorry, that would be for someone else. conference. Regarding the challenges and

conference. Regarding the challenges and Inclusion: how do we address it? I

Inclusion: how do we address it? I I'm going to talk about the experience I have in

I'm going to talk about the experience I have in Faculty of Letters. whenever we

Faculty of Letters. whenever we we are contacted or we identify a

we are contacted or we identify a student, because my service that

student, because my service that coordeno eh encompasses the entire course of

coordeno eh encompasses the entire course of student, that is, it is a service that goes to

student, that is, it is a service that goes to to the fairs of eh dissemination of the offer

to the fairs of eh dissemination of the offer formative to spread our our

formative to spread our our service in the sense of training

service in the sense of training teachers and students

teachers and students interested. It is the student who is the service.

interested. It is the student who is the service. that welcomes, that energizes all

that welcomes, that energizes all welcoming activities for all

welcoming activities for all students, because our perspective is not

students, because our perspective is not To create a separate program, is to include

To create a separate program, is to include in and during this phase, it is also in this

in and during this phase, it is also in this phase that we are uh that are uh

phase that we are uh that are uh We contacted some of the students, even

We contacted some of the students, even even before they know that there is one

even before they know that there is one student status with special needs

student status with special needs specific. What do we do next?

specific. What do we do next? If it's a situation where we have to

If it's a situation where we have to Do we need to serve as firefighters, or do we need to act now?

Do we need to serve as firefighters, or do we need to act now? We do that immediately.

We do that immediately. immediately an interview with the student

immediately an interview with the student and we tried to find out what they are...

and we tried to find out what they are... What do you need help with? What is it that...?

What do you need help with? What is it that...? We have to change the environment, if it is

We have to change the environment, if it is that we have to change right there in that

that we have to change right there in that phase. Then there's the whole process of...

phase. Then there's the whole process of... of the student with special needs status

of the student with special needs status specific educational aspects and then there is a

specific educational aspects and then there is a communication to teachers. Normally,

communication to teachers. Normally, We have measures that are transversal,

We have measures that are transversal, What are the teachers already doing?

What are the teachers already doing? accustomed to and that we do not have for that

accustomed to and that we do not have for that I'm contacting them. or else if there is

I'm contacting them. or else if there is If they have any questions, they can contact us or

If they have any questions, they can contact us or So, if there are cases where there is indeed...

So, if there are cases where there is indeed... a greater sensitivity, so we try

a greater sensitivity, so we try always talking to each teacher is or

always talking to each teacher is or So now let's move on to a new methodology.

So now let's move on to a new methodology. that is very important to us that

that is very important to us that It's about talking to all the teachers who already...

It's about talking to all the teachers who already... so that student is for us to exchange.

so that student is for us to exchange. experiences and sometimes with the student and

experiences and sometimes with the student and family. It always depends a lot. I.e,

family. It always depends a lot. I.e, For us, it's the other, each one of us is the other.

For us, it's the other, each one of us is the other. Each case is different. No, no, no

Each case is different. No, no, no we have, it has a lot to do with the person and

we have, it has a lot to do with the person and Above all, if the environment, if it is lacking

Above all, if the environment, if it is lacking something in our environment that we have

something in our environment that we have adapting is always the goal.

adapting is always the goal. be for everyone. In other words, if it is lacking...

be for everyone. In other words, if it is lacking... this person, we have to do it in a

this person, we have to do it in a A perspective for everyone. Regarding health

A perspective for everyone. Regarding health mental,

mental, It's the service, from that perspective, we

It's the service, from that perspective, we we have, first of all, in terms

we have, first of all, in terms Nationally, there is the mental health program.

Nationally, there is the mental health program. what it was and what the schools of education

what it was and what the schools of education superior with were able to reinforce the

superior with were able to reinforce the psychology services and specifically

psychology services and specifically the assignment, the government gave the assignment

the assignment, the government gave the assignment of psychological checks that students

of psychological checks that students They could not only enjoy it inside, in this

They could not only enjoy it inside, in this If not within the university, but in

If not within the university, but in apart from that, with psychologists who adhered to

apart from that, with psychologists who adhered to program. Why is this? Why

program. Why is this? Why It effectively is, and there are no resources.

It effectively is, and there are no resources. sufficient. We have a psychologist.

sufficient. We have a psychologist. At the clinic, we have one psychologist, two

At the clinic, we have one psychologist, two psychologists, two clinical psychologists and

psychologists, two clinical psychologists and do eh e um educativo.

do eh e um educativo. Well, that's not enough because

Well, that's not enough because That's exactly what it says. Therefore, we

That's exactly what it says. Therefore, we We also have a national program.

We also have a national program. for the prevention of mental health issues, which

for the prevention of mental health issues, which It is available through the direction-gal

It is available through the direction-gal higher education and even tells us which

higher education and even tells us which The steps guide our intervention in

The steps guide our intervention in our schools and talks a lot about the issue

our schools and talks a lot about the issue prevention measures. What is it that we

prevention measures. What is it that we What are we planning for next week? Let's go

What are we planning for next week? Let's go Doing mental health week is in

Doing mental health week is in college bringing in specialists.

college bringing in specialists. We also have support consultations.

We also have support consultations. psychological, which we will now have two

psychological, which we will now have two modalities in support is punctual, one

modalities in support is punctual, one the situation that the teacher faced in

the situation that the teacher faced in classroom and needs a

classroom and needs a guidance from our psychologist

guidance from our psychologist Or, well, we have this moment, right?

Or, well, we have this moment, right? properly a consultation, it is a moment

properly a consultation, it is a moment where is the specialist there who can

where is the specialist there who can to guide the teacher's practice that

to guide the teacher's practice that he thought that student wasn't there

he thought that student wasn't there good. Okay, so we have this situation that

good. Okay, so we have this situation that we will have now and the work in

we will have now and the work in The group at this moment consists of the

The group at this moment consists of the initiatives that we have, because it's like you

initiatives that we have, because it's like you I mean, we're even fortunate enough to work with...

I mean, we're even fortunate enough to work with... A multidisciplinary team, right? 37

A multidisciplinary team, right? 37 years of experience and a college degree with

years of experience and a college degree with a sensitive approach to these issues

a sensitive approach to these issues It led to us having this team.

It led to us having this team. But there are indeed schools that don't do that.

But there are indeed schools that don't do that. It happens and it's more complicated in relation to

It happens and it's more complicated in relation to the questions are from

the questions are from of students who do not master the language

of students who do not master the language Portuguese, we have the experience,

Portuguese, we have the experience, At this moment, we begin working with

At this moment, we begin working with the students come from Paulo and we have two

the students come from Paulo and we have two programs. We have the Integrate program. THE

programs. We have the Integrate program. THE The Integrate program is a program of

The Integrate program is a program of welcoming these students in which we...

welcoming these students in which we... it is also a

it is also a A project that promotes peer-to-peer work.

A project that promotes peer-to-peer work. We work with the Center for Studies

We work with the Center for Studies Africans in the sense of helping us to

Africans in the sense of helping us to to identify the main difficulties

to identify the main difficulties that these students have. This program is

that these students have. This program is It can be done in a group or individually.

It can be done in a group or individually. and it essentially gives not only support in

and it essentially gives not only support in in the use of technologies, in the use of

in the use of technologies, in the use of tools in Moodle, in Fénix, are

tools in Moodle, in Fénix, are tools that students have to provide and

tools that students have to provide and often also some help in the

often also some help in the writing papers, in the interpretation

writing papers, in the interpretation of some texts that fail

of some texts that fail Okay, I understand. This is the program

Okay, I understand. This is the program that we have. we have a different reality and

that we have. we have a different reality and who are the international students

who are the international students But those that aren't there, that reach us and

But those that aren't there, that reach us and that are not integrated into programs of

that are not integrated into programs of Mobility, students coming from Pakistan

Mobility, students coming from Pakistan or that essentially come to do

or that essentially come to do second cycle, also Brazilian students

second cycle, also Brazilian students who need support to get to know a

who need support to get to know a There's not much space. This program will be,

There's not much space. This program will be, In other words, yes, we're going to reinforce the

In other words, yes, we're going to reinforce the The program integrates with this aspect, but

The program integrates with this aspect, but even always in this line of having, not

even always in this line of having, not only us, because we are what we are many

only us, because we are what we are many Sometimes, despite trying to get out of

Sometimes, despite trying to get out of In the office, we did not experience that.

In the office, we did not experience that. students, we don't feel what it is that they

students, we don't feel what it is that they They feel it. And it is along this line, that very line of

They feel it. And it is along this line, that very line of Seeing through others what we also bring.

Seeing through others what we also bring. students with similar experiences. AND

students with similar experiences. AND For this purpose we have a program,

For this purpose we have a program, I'm speaking quickly because I have time.

I'm speaking quickly because I have time. There's a lot to say, but we have a program of

There's a lot to say, but we have a program of college scholarships that we pay for

college scholarships that we pay for some scholarship recipients to join this

some scholarship recipients to join this program and some is ready, exactly

program and some is ready, exactly therefore. And this year we also managed to

therefore. And this year we also managed to include students in our tasks, a

include students in our tasks, a two students, one from Pakistan and the other already

two students, one from Pakistan and the other already I don't remember, but they don't master the

I don't remember, but they don't master the Portuguese language, but we managed to

Portuguese language, but we managed to they collaborated with us in activities

they collaborated with us in activities like the other colleagues. Therefore, this

like the other colleagues. Therefore, this This year is a successful year. In this respect,

This year is a successful year. In this respect, I feel quite happy about that, because

I feel quite happy about that, because having managed to mobilize my

having managed to mobilize my colleagues, uh, to do because it's always a

colleagues, uh, to do because it's always a additional effort from the other who has their

additional effort from the other who has their All regular work, right? ask

All regular work, right? ask someone to help the person who doesn't have

someone to help the person who doesn't have It's just another one, it adds more work. Put

It's just another one, it adds more work. Put That's always a great joy to know.

That's always a great joy to know. that that colleague is available

that that colleague is available with us to help these students to

with us to help these students to to have better integration.

to have better integration. I think I've answered everything. I don't know.

I think I've answered everything. I don't know. Thank you very much. Hey.

Thank you very much. Hey. Thank you very much,

Professor Domingos. In telegraphic form, sorry.

sorry. We're past the deadline.

We're past the deadline. as telegraphically as possible.

as telegraphically as possible. Well, and thinking a bit about the first one

Well, and thinking a bit about the first one The question that was formulated,

The question that was formulated, Well, I have to reaffirm here and

Well, I have to reaffirm here and the three, the three domains of

the three, the three domains of knowledge that seems fundamental to me

knowledge that seems fundamental to me and therefore there is something to develop,

and therefore there is something to develop, therefore a certain view of

therefore a certain view of curriculum at any level of

curriculum at any level of Education, right?

Education, right? And, and here, finally, forgive me for the...

And, and here, finally, forgive me for the... Simplicity, but at its core, the discussion.

Simplicity, but at its core, the discussion. It has to do with the curriculum. It's a thing

It has to do with the curriculum. It's a thing something that is said, that is dictated, or is a thing

something that is said, that is dictated, or is a thing That's life, isn't it? which helps us to

That's life, isn't it? which helps us to think,

think, Because it's a knowledge project. AND

Because it's a knowledge project. AND a knowledge project and therefore,

a knowledge project and therefore, It is something that challenges us, that...

It is something that challenges us, that... builds, that is rebuilt, that is

builds, that is rebuilt, that is adapts and forces us to formulate

adapts and forces us to formulate conjectures and to search and analyze

conjectures and to search and analyze these conjectures. Therefore, this, in

these conjectures. Therefore, this, in In essence, this is a discussion that...

In essence, this is a discussion that... It seems that we normally have some

It seems that we normally have some carelessness in this discussion so

carelessness in this discussion so Relevant, isn't it? No, the other one is that in

Relevant, isn't it? No, the other one is that in In terms of evaluation, we have to

In terms of evaluation, we have to to discuss and reflect on the issue of

to discuss and reflect on the issue of assessment. So now with this with the

assessment. So now with this with the artificial intelligence I have had the

artificial intelligence I have had the privilege of hearing things

privilege of hearing things extraordinary actions on the part of

extraordinary actions on the part of teachers. there are days num num num

teachers. there are days num num num a seminar that Kné gave, a

a seminar that Kné gave, a teacher

teacher That's because this is a language teacher.

That's because this is a language teacher. Portuguese

Portuguese That would excite anyone, but

That would excite anyone, but positive enthusiasm

positive enthusiasm it is not? Now, the problem is with what

it is not? Now, the problem is with what The head is what a person will deal with.

The head is what a person will deal with. artificial intelligence? with what with what

artificial intelligence? with what with what pedagogical head, as I said the other day,

pedagogical head, as I said the other day, Well, it's a somewhat strange term, but

Well, it's a somewhat strange term, but with what pedagogical mindset, with what

with what pedagogical mindset, with what The curriculum is what I'm going to tackle.

The curriculum is what I'm going to tackle. the challenge of technologies or the challenge

the challenge of technologies or the challenge Artificial intelligence?

Artificial intelligence? Because it's necessary to have a certain understanding.

Because it's necessary to have a certain understanding. evaluation

evaluation to ask the GPT chat to analyze

to ask the GPT chat to analyze that analyze the essays that I sent that

that analyze the essays that I sent that I asked the students to do it for me, that

I asked the students to do it for me, that That's what that professor of

That's what that professor of Portuguese did it. He asked the students for a

Portuguese did it. He asked the students for a I'm rehearsing because people say, "Oh,

I'm rehearsing because people say, "Oh, "Now I'm going to stop writing." Well, I will.

"Now I'm going to stop writing." Well, I will. We will stop writing if we don't act.

We will stop writing if we don't act. if we are not beings

if we are not beings thoughtful as we are, intellectuals as

thoughtful as we are, intellectuals as We are, aren't we? And therefore, I cannot.

We are, aren't we? And therefore, I cannot. take time, it has to be telegraphic,

take time, it has to be telegraphic, But the real question here is...

But the real question here is... let's think

let's think if evaluation is something that has as

if evaluation is something that has as fundamental objective or as an object

fundamental objective or as an object fundamental is the classification or does it have

fundamental is the classification or does it have with the fundamental objective of improving and

with the fundamental objective of improving and quality of our work. And when

quality of our work. And when I mean "our," I'm being Freirean, if I...

I mean "our," I'm being Freirean, if I... allow this boldness, that is,

allow this boldness, that is, Ours, mine and the students'. In other words, we are

Ours, mine and the students'. In other words, we are the two that we are looking at

the two that we are looking at quality of our work and that

quality of our work and that We learn from our mistakes and that

We learn from our mistakes and that We need to reformulate. Or else we said:

We need to reformulate. Or else we said: "Ah, man, we did a great job, man,

"Ah, man, we did a great job, man, Let's move forward, we can advance."

Let's move forward, we can advance." Therefore, we have to consider what mindset to use.

Therefore, we have to consider what mindset to use. It is through evaluative assessment that we will...

It is through evaluative assessment that we will... Regarding the issues of retaining students, it

Regarding the issues of retaining students, it in higher education, admit them and

in higher education, admit them and then retain them. And finally

then retain them. And finally It's a matter of thinking about what.

It's a matter of thinking about what. It is pedagogy that informs us, isn't it? the

It is pedagogy that informs us, isn't it? the António Sérgio, who was a great

António Sérgio, who was a great Portuguese philosopher, a great man, a

Portuguese philosopher, a great man, a to be absolutely extraordinary, like

to be absolutely extraordinary, like Like Laborinho Lúcio, I don't want to.

Like Laborinho Lúcio, I don't want to. to be here making unfair comparisons,

to be here making unfair comparisons, But it's a different Portuguese person, isn't it? He said

But it's a different Portuguese person, isn't it? He said that from Paris, when he was in exile,

that from Paris, when he was in exile, I was writing to Portugal for a friend and

I was writing to Portugal for a friend and He said: "I have to go to Portugal to

He said: "I have to go to Portugal to I'll only return to Portugal when there is...

I'll only return to Portugal when there is... conditions for making the revolution

conditions for making the revolution "pedagogical". The true revolution.

"pedagogical". The true revolution. This was said by António Sérgio in

This was said by António Sérgio in 19th century, right? And now that I am

19th century, right? And now that I am to quote Portuguese people, but I've also quoted them before.

to quote Portuguese people, but I've also quoted them before. A Brazilian, Paulo Freire, is already here.

A Brazilian, Paulo Freire, is already here. But now, another Portuguese person that I

But now, another Portuguese person that I I admire you very much, and that's where I'll end.

I admire you very much, and that's where I'll end. Sebastião da Gama. I apologize to

Sebastião da Gama. I apologize to those who have already heard me, but I don't...

those who have already heard me, but I don't... I'm tired of invoking Sebastião da Gama,

I'm tired of invoking Sebastião da Gama, because Sebastião da Gama, for now, I

because Sebastião da Gama, for now, I That was a great, great story.

That was a great, great story. I'm not going to tell that story, I'm just going to

I'm not going to tell that story, I'm just going to To say the following, he was doing the

To say the following, he was doing the During his internship, he was a Portuguese teacher.

During his internship, he was a Portuguese teacher. a great educator, a tremendous educator,

a great educator, a tremendous educator, A great poet and a great human being.

A great poet and a great human being. and he was doing his internship at

and he was doing his internship at Veigabeirão commercial school

Veigabeirão commercial school about 80 years ago, 70 and

about 80 years ago, 70 and so many years ago. And he

so many years ago. And he asks the students to do it.

asks the students to do it. to develop a task. He says: "You

to develop a task. He says: "You "Now they're going to do this and that." And there is a

"Now they're going to do this and that." And there is a A young man asks him: "Professor, this

A young man asks him: "Professor, this Is this for the grade?

Is this for the grade? And almost 80 years ago, the answer from

And almost 80 years ago, the answer from The enormous Sebastian of Gama was: "No, that

The enormous Sebastian of Gama was: "No, that "It's for learning."

"It's for learning." And here we have a vision, a man.

And here we have a vision, a man. visionary, just like Freir was. THE

visionary, just like Freir was. THE Freir, that which I know in writing

Freir, that which I know in writing His age is 74, when he was in Chile...

His age is 74, when he was in Chile... to carry out literacy campaigns, which

to carry out literacy campaigns, which who formulated his idea of evaluation.

who formulated his idea of evaluation. And we really need to wrap this up. Tell me

And we really need to wrap this up. Tell me I'm closing.

only. Just to say that in addition from that group in the Integrate program, we

from that group in the Integrate program, we We also have a language course.

We also have a language course. Portuguese for these students,

Portuguese for these students, specifically for them. And there is little

specifically for them. And there is little We forgot to mention. Thanks.

We forgot to mention. Thanks. One word?

One word? I don't think so.

I don't think so. No. Okay. So, we're really done here.

No. Okay. So, we're really done here. here. Thank you very much. We'll be back at 2 PM.

here. Thank you very much. We'll be back at 2 PM. in the afternoon. At 2 pm we are all

in the afternoon. At 2 pm we are all Back here. Thank you very much.

Back here. Thank you very much. [applause]

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Well, good afternoon. Are you listening to me? [music] good? Let's begin. No

[music] good? Let's begin. No Some schoolgirls are joining,

Some schoolgirls are joining, pupils, students, researchers.

pupils, students, researchers. Let's go inside so we can begin.

Let's go inside so we can begin. So, good afternoon again everyone and

So, good afternoon again everyone and to all. It is with great satisfaction that

to all. It is with great satisfaction that We begin the fourth round table discussion.

We begin the fourth round table discussion. dedicated to the topic of human rights

dedicated to the topic of human rights fundamentals and social intervention. This

fundamentals and social intervention. This The fourth round table proposes a reflection.

The fourth round table proposes a reflection. Critique of the role of intervention

Critique of the role of intervention social and social service in the promotion and

social and social service in the promotion and defending human rights in a context

defending human rights in a context marked by profound inequalities,

marked by profound inequalities, migratory challenges, new forms of

migratory challenges, new forms of exclusion and so many other things. And the

exclusion and so many other things. And the The debate, without a doubt, seeks to question

The debate, without a doubt, seeks to question practices, models, paradigms, pointing

practices, models, paradigms, pointing paths to more social action

paths to more social action ethical, more participatory, more

ethical, more participatory, more transformative and more humane. And this is,

transformative and more humane. And this is, without a doubt, it has been throughout this,

without a doubt, it has been throughout this, since yesterday, this morning, and we're going

since yesterday, this morning, and we're going to continue this afternoon. It has been a

to continue this afternoon. It has been a a meeting place, above all, of

a meeting place, above all, of thought, but also dialogue in

thought, but also dialogue in above all, it becomes a question

above all, it becomes a question central. and essential, which is how

central. and essential, which is how we can, through our practice

we can, through our practice professional and academic,

professional and academic, to affirm human rights as the central principle.

to affirm human rights as the central principle. structuring element of social intervention. And it is

structuring element of social intervention. And it is It's curious that both yesterday and today...

It's curious that both yesterday and today... Good morning, once again, how do you look?

Good morning, once again, how do you look? For the program, it's very rich because

For the program, it's very rich because This effectively refers to human rights.

This effectively refers to human rights. We are all impregnated with it, that is to say,

We are all impregnated with it, that is to say, We are all involved and we are all

We are all involved and we are all responsible for providing this

responsible for providing this human rights in our daily lives

human rights in our daily lives areas where we are working, but

areas where we are working, but in what we are, in what we are as

in what we are, in what we are as people, as citizens.

people, as citizens. And the truth is that we live in times of

And the truth is that we live in times of complexity,

complexity, uncertain, marked by inequalities

uncertain, marked by inequalities persistent, through new forms of

persistent, through new forms of vulnerability and profound

vulnerability and profound social transformations. And so it is,

social transformations. And so it is, It is urgent to rethink not only models, but

It is urgent to rethink not only models, but practices and so many other dimensions in

practices and so many other dimensions in the way we work, but also the

the way we work, but also the The ethical and political meaning of our actions.

The ethical and political meaning of our actions. And we have it with us now at this moment.

And we have it with us now at this moment. Here on my right are two guests.

Here on my right are two guests. of excellence whose paths and

of excellence whose paths and Reflections inspire us to look at the service.

Reflections inspire us to look at the service. social and social intervention with

social and social intervention with renewed awareness and commitment.

renewed awareness and commitment. Dr. Joaquina Madeira, president of

Dr. Joaquina Madeira, president of leadership of the European Anti-Poverty Network is

leadership of the European Anti-Poverty Network is Bachelor's degree in social work. Well, it has

Bachelor's degree in social work. Well, it has a long resume,

a long resume, I'll just say, it's all important and,

I'll just say, it's all important and, Therefore, it is very difficult to find here.

Therefore, it is very difficult to find here. here. But anyway, in this

here. But anyway, in this currently and is president of the board of directors of

currently and is president of the board of directors of European Anti-Poverty Network in Portugal and

European Anti-Poverty Network in Portugal and She has a degree in social work, she is a

She has a degree in social work, she is a leading figure in the third sector

leading figure in the third sector and in social action policies in

and in social action policies in Portugal with an extensive and very...

Portugal with an extensive and very... very diverse.

very diverse. And the truth is that

And the truth is that She's in charge now, isn't she, the teacher?

She's in charge now, isn't she, the teacher? Joaquina can then confirm the position.

Joaquina can then confirm the position. of president of the board of directors of the network and

of president of the board of directors of the network and so many other things, but they can go

so many other things, but they can go Do some research and then you'll know more.

Do some research and then you'll know more. things. Exactly. [laughter]

things. Exactly. [laughter] Anyway, thank you for your intervention.

Anyway, thank you for your intervention. hh has been focusing his intervention on

hh has been focusing his intervention on level of social service and not only and of

level of social service and not only and of social intervention in general has

social intervention in general has strongly inflamed in the themes of

strongly inflamed in the themes of poverty, social exclusion,

poverty, social exclusion, housing, inclusion and promotion of

housing, inclusion and promotion of integrated public policies and

integrated public policies and Structural, right? And therefore, I

Structural, right? And therefore, I I remember, I even went to look up a phrase that

I remember, I even went to look up a phrase that many times Professor Joaquina is

many times Professor Joaquina is She tells us when we are with her and

She tells us when we are with her and that poverty is not a problem

that poverty is not a problem of the people, it is a problem of society and

of the people, it is a problem of society and in the way this one also works.

in the way this one also works. Then we also have with us the

Then we also have with us the Professor Isabel Vieira, who is a

Professor Isabel Vieira, who is a a person who is an excellent teacher and

a person who is an excellent teacher and a social, community and interventionist

a social, community and interventionist not only that, but also of excellence in the area of

not only that, but also of excellence in the area of social service. hh and who are you going to tell us

social service. hh and who are you going to tell us It's about rethinking social work.

It's about rethinking social work. as a human rights profession. and

as a human rights profession. and social worker, she holds a doctorate in

social worker, she holds a doctorate in social work from the University

social work from the University Catholic and she's a teacher, eh eh na

Catholic and she's a teacher, eh eh na Catholic University, at the Faculty of

Catholic University, at the Faculty of Humanities, and provides supervision.

Humanities, and provides supervision. also pedagogical of professionals of

also pedagogical of professionals of social intervention in teams

social intervention in teams multidisciplinary and currently also

multidisciplinary and currently also collaborates with the Parish Council

collaborates with the Parish Council currently, but has also collaborated

currently, but has also collaborated For many years it has been in the Board of

For many years it has been in the Board of Carnide parish, in the area closest to

Carnide parish, in the area closest to resources and development too and

resources and development too and so many other things. and it also has one

so many other things. and it also has one This book is very important, that I

This book is very important, that I I invite you to also get to know and

I invite you to also get to know and to visit, to revisit, I would even say about the

to visit, to revisit, I would even say about the participation as a paradigm for

participation as a paradigm for social intervention. And that's it, and that's it.

social intervention. And that's it, and that's it. a reflection that, deep down, we are here today.

a reflection that, deep down, we are here today. around this major theme that already

around this major theme that already We have heard about the rights.

We have heard about the rights. Humans, humanism, and citizenship. And then

Humans, humanism, and citizenship. And then I will now pass the word to the lady.

I will now pass the word to the lady. Professor, Mrs. Dr. Joaquina

Professor, Mrs. Dr. Joaquina Madeira, please.

Madeira, please. Good afternoon to everyone.

Good afternoon to everyone. The difficult time is nap time. Varam

The difficult time is nap time. Varam early. I am going to try

early. I am going to try Keep your eyes open.

Keep your eyes open. I'm not going to present anything. Me and

I'm not going to present anything. Me and that I am the spectacle. Therefore, stay

that I am the spectacle. Therefore, stay Without me, please. Hey, let's move on.

Without me, please. Hey, let's move on. here, an hour between me and now and

here, an hour between me and now and Let's share this time and let's

Let's share this time and let's Make the most of it. I naturally

Make the most of it. I naturally I always prepare my presentations carefully.

I always prepare my presentations carefully. for 3 hours and therefore I appreciate that

for 3 hours and therefore I appreciate that They dominate me, controlling time. Uh, I

They dominate me, controlling time. Uh, I I want to naturally thank you for the invitation.

I want to naturally thank you for the invitation. that was addressed to me. Oh, it's too much.

that was addressed to me. Oh, it's too much. This congress is important, this

This congress is important, this reflection. This is a time for reflection, a time for

reflection. This is a time for reflection, a time for thought, it's imagination, it's

thought, it's imagination, it's creativity. Faced with problems, we

creativity. Faced with problems, we We only have one goal, which is

We only have one goal, which is to overtake him. When we can't

to overtake him. When we can't to overtake, we take a little spin and if

to overtake, we take a little spin and if Perhaps we'll solve it too. Therefore, the

Perhaps we'll solve it too. Therefore, the The theme is humanism, human rights and

The theme is humanism, human rights and citizenship. It couldn't be more timely,

citizenship. It couldn't be more timely, This isn't the topic, because I don't know if it's already...

This isn't the topic, because I don't know if it's already... Did you notice, we only talk about things?

Did you notice, we only talk about things? when they are missing or about to be missing,

when they are missing or about to be missing, otherwise they pass by us without

otherwise they pass by us without importance. At this moment, the topic has

importance. At this moment, the topic has more importance because there really is

more importance because there really is Here is a critical moment regarding

Here is a critical moment regarding all of these, these terms and these

all of these, these terms and these concepts that should be translated into

concepts that should be translated into attitude and human behavior. I

attitude and human behavior. I I gave my intervention the name

I gave my intervention the name create and create models and and for

create and create models and and for Keep them to maintain the design. They know

Keep them to maintain the design. They know What is the purpose?

The theme is creating and recreating models for maintain the design. What will the plan be?

Considering the topic, right? I put it like this, exactly, it should have

I put it like this, exactly, it should have I'm posing a question. The design is

I'm posing a question. The design is exactly to fulfill human rights and

exactly to fulfill human rights and universals. This is the design of

universals. This is the design of social intervention. It's the root, it's the DNA.

social intervention. It's the root, it's the DNA. But that's always the plan.

But that's always the plan. Universal fundamental rights are

Universal fundamental rights are In fact, the framework, the objective, and the

In fact, the framework, the objective, and the assistants' work process

assistants' work process social. Therefore, I began by thinking

social. Therefore, I began by thinking naturally from questions of concepts

naturally from questions of concepts which the lady has already mentioned here, and rightly so.

which the lady has already mentioned here, and rightly so. I wanted to remind you of a book that many

I wanted to remind you of a book that many They will surely know you. If not

They will surely know you. If not they know and have had the opportunity to

they know and have had the opportunity to read it, I recommend it's one of a kind.

read it, I recommend it's one of a kind. Author Amin Maluf, I don't know if this tells you anything.

Author Amin Maluf, I don't know if this tells you anything. something, which is a writer, a

something, which is a writer, a humanist, a reader of reality, a

humanist, a reader of reality, a An analytical approach to contemporary societies. the

An analytical approach to contemporary societies. the writer and poet as well

writer and poet as well who wrote the book with the name

who wrote the book with the name suggestive that it is a world without rules.

suggestive that it is a world without rules. when our civilizations

when our civilizations They run out.

They run out. So it seems that it is indeed a topic, isn't it?

So it seems that it is indeed a topic, isn't it? of cataclysm, no, of the end of

of cataclysm, no, of the end of empires,

empires, but it

but it Perhaps many of us agree that

Perhaps many of us agree that Something is changing. I

Something is changing. I I'm not just talking about changing, but about...

I'm not just talking about changing, but about... to transform from the root. We are in an era

to transform from the root. We are in an era or in a change not of times, no

or in a change not of times, no later, but from an era. There are signs

later, but from an era. There are signs evident that something very profound and

evident that something very profound and A structural change is taking place. we saw the

A structural change is taking place. we saw the what happens at the level, in fact, there is

what happens at the level, in fact, there is many authors and many thinkers and

many authors and many thinkers and many analysts of the present and of

many analysts of the present and of future that they say is a time of

future that they say is a time of multiple crises.

multiple crises. Therefore, there has always been a crisis, the crisis.

Therefore, there has always been a crisis, the crisis. It's part of ours, but here there are two.

It's part of ours, but here there are two. elements that characterize our

elements that characterize our time. It's a multi-crisis. Therefore, more than

time. It's a multi-crisis. Therefore, more than one crisis, two, three multiple crises

one crisis, two, three multiple crises and the speed at which they happen.

and the speed at which they happen. There are two factors that characterize the

There are two factors that characterize the our time, which we never lived through, always

our time, which we never lived through, always We are living through crises, multiple crises, and with

We are living through crises, multiple crises, and with speed. It is, indeed, a challenge at the level of...

speed. It is, indeed, a challenge at the level of... economic, communicational, naturally

economic, communicational, naturally social networks, relative more relative

social networks, relative more relative to fundamental and universal values.

to fundamental and universal values. Therefore, there are also clear signs there.

Therefore, there are also clear signs there. with some dominant traits in our

with some dominant traits in our society, which is one of intolerances, of

society, which is one of intolerances, of xenophobia, racism, in short, forms

xenophobia, racism, in short, forms hatred towards others, especially towards

hatred towards others, especially towards another, but it's not exactly with the other, it's with

another, but it's not exactly with the other, it's with The other, different and poor. Pay close attention,

The other, different and poor. Pay close attention, because foreigners in Portugal, if

because foreigners in Portugal, if They have economic power, they are foreigners.

They have economic power, they are foreigners. If they are poor, they have migrants.

If they are poor, they have migrants. And therefore, there is a crisis in the world.

And therefore, there is a crisis in the world. with regard to intolerance, to

with regard to intolerance, to adversity. You know that in large

adversity. You know that in large part

part Hatred and intolerance are founded on...

Hatred and intolerance are founded on... Another problem is fear.

Another problem is fear. We fundamentally have insecurities.

We fundamentally have insecurities. fear of what is different, especially if it is

fear of what is different, especially if it is visible. And therefore, in the world of

visible. And therefore, in the world of mobility,

mobility, It looks Babylonian, doesn't it? The big ones

It looks Babylonian, doesn't it? The big ones transhumance and more than that, the

transhumance and more than that, the Large migrations seem to belong to the times.

Large migrations seem to belong to the times. biblical.

biblical. If we see that image of

If we see that image of Gaza fleeing to the north of S

Gaza fleeing to the north of S Jordan, it's extraordinary how things are.

Jordan, it's extraordinary how things are. to happen in the 20th century. Therefore, it is a

to happen in the 20th century. Therefore, it is a The world is truly undergoing profound changes.

The world is truly undergoing profound changes. It's good for us to know that

It's good for us to know that It goes against everything we believed.

It goes against everything we believed. and we have defended up until now, including the

and we have defended up until now, including the fundamental rights, the rights

fundamental rights, the rights universals.

universals. And as has already been said here, and rightly so, the

And as has already been said here, and rightly so, the universal and fundamental rights are

universal and fundamental rights are the matrix and the reason for the service's existence

the matrix and the reason for the service's existence social.

social. Social work is founded precisely on

Social work is founded precisely on equal opportunities in justice

equal opportunities in justice social, in the dignity of people,

social, in the dignity of people, Finally, and these are the rights in

Finally, and these are the rights in Respect for difference. And these are the

Respect for difference. And these are the rights that are being put into

rights that are being put into cause. Therefore, your time here is

cause. Therefore, your time here is For younger people, it's a time of turbulence.

For younger people, it's a time of turbulence. which actually requires not being there too many

which actually requires not being there too many convinced of what needs to be done and

convinced of what needs to be done and how should we do it?

how should we do it? We are here in a house that has

We are here in a house that has responsibilities in this particular area,

responsibilities in this particular area, we know, in the initial training of all

we know, in the initial training of all academics and that it is indeed timely

academics and that it is indeed timely this reflection that is being made about

this reflection that is being made about The world, Europe, and Portugal. of the

The world, Europe, and Portugal. of the human rights, of which the greatest

human rights, of which the greatest opportunity, because we know that

opportunity, because we know that We need to think not only about our own actions.

We need to think not only about our own actions. where we will intervene, but in the whole of

where we will intervene, but in the whole of The universe we are in. In other words, it's very...

The universe we are in. In other words, it's very... interesting. I'm a little bit

interesting. I'm a little bit I'm going off-topic, but let me say that...

I'm going off-topic, but let me say that... Maslow's pyramid, in addition to the five

Maslow's pyramid, in addition to the five basic needs

basic needs They've been established since, like

They've been established since, like You know, mid-century, now there's more

You know, mid-century, now there's more two needs that are identified,

two needs that are identified, which is the knowledge and understanding of

which is the knowledge and understanding of world

world and the aesthetic needs of good and

and the aesthetic needs of good and of beauty. These are two new needs.

of beauty. These are two new needs. for human beings. Therefore, much more

for human beings. Therefore, much more the teachers, the people in the field

the teachers, the people in the field social and the students have to

social and the students have to to realize that in order to act on the tree we have

to realize that in order to act on the tree we have to get to know the forest.

to get to know the forest. This conversation, one might say, is very...

This conversation, one might say, is very... far from social services, it's not far from

far from social services, it's not far from social service, because that's what is done

social service, because that's what is done In the smallest territory, we have to

In the smallest territory, we have to always position yourself in the movements and in

always position yourself in the movements and in characteristics of the context in which we operate.

characteristics of the context in which we operate. Therefore, this is a topic that fits,

Therefore, this is a topic that fits, In a way, it's social work. THE

In a way, it's social work. THE The service at this moment remains

The service at this moment remains firm in its ethics, in its principles,

firm in its ethics, in its principles, rescues in and must be rescued in

rescues in and must be rescued in daily practices, values

daily practices, values structural and fundamental in practices

structural and fundamental in practices daily tasks in social work, knowing

daily tasks in social work, knowing that either from a technical point of view and

that either from a technical point of view and scientific, naturally and methodologically,

scientific, naturally and methodologically, we naturally have to act accordingly

we naturally have to act accordingly with the advances that are being made in this

with the advances that are being made in this in this field and in studies. and from the side

in this field and in studies. and from the side scientific discovery that goes

scientific discovery that goes learning from experience in context

learning from experience in context in which we act. Therefore, evolution is

in which we act. Therefore, evolution is It's a technique, but it's not one of its principles.

It's a technique, but it's not one of its principles. fundamental things that must be done

fundamental things that must be done Keep firm. This is a topic.

Keep firm. This is a topic. But there is a question here that is relatively...

But there is a question here that is relatively... to those receiving assistance, and especially when

to those receiving assistance, and especially when I'm in an institution, it's in

I'm in an institution, it's in training, which is my conviction that

training, which is my conviction that we cannot dissociate the person who

we cannot dissociate the person who We belong to the profession we practice. That is

We belong to the profession we practice. That is a very serious point that comes from my

a very serious point that comes from my experience.

experience. Uh, the caregiving professional is a professional.

Uh, the caregiving professional is a professional. of the relationships of the relationships, of the relationships

of the relationships of the relationships, of the relationships human, institutional relations,

human, institutional relations, of social relations and therefore has

of social relations and therefore has who knows human beings very well and

who knows human beings very well and It has to have ethical principles.

It has to have ethical principles. Mentors, guides for your actions.

Mentors, guides for your actions. Therefore, each one of us has to be

Therefore, each one of us has to be to be from a personal point of view, to be

to be from a personal point of view, to be human, with human skills

human, with human skills compatible

compatible with the principles that we will defend,

with the principles that we will defend, Furthermore, always keeping in mind,

Furthermore, always keeping in mind, naturally, this framework of rights

naturally, this framework of rights humans. And therefore, there are

humans. And therefore, there are certain personal abilities that

certain personal abilities that They must be trained beyond the

They must be trained beyond the scientific and technical knowledge.

scientific and technical knowledge. Therefore, Father António Vieira said

Therefore, Father António Vieira said so that when they ask you who you are,

so that when they ask you who you are, Answer what you do. What do you do?

Answer what you do. What do you do? so them.

so them. Therefore, there is no good assistant.

Therefore, there is no good assistant. socially, if you're not a well-adjusted person,

socially, if you're not a well-adjusted person, ethics, in light of fundamental rights,

ethics, in light of fundamental rights, with ethical attitudes, behaviors

with ethical attitudes, behaviors ethics. And naturally there are two

ethics. And naturally there are two qualities that are fundamental.

qualities that are fundamental. First, believing that this is murder.

First, believing that this is murder. of social services. Believe and practice.

of social services. Believe and practice. The design of the care service is the

The design of the care service is the people, families are subjects of

people, families are subjects of rights

rights of social justice and equality of

of social justice and equality of We are the same.

We are the same. No value judgments before it's...

No value judgments before it's... Bulgarian, before being

Bulgarian, before being Tibetan, before being an immigrant, is

Tibetan, before being an immigrant, is person. We are all people before we are people.

person. We are all people before we are people. to be anything. And as people

to be anything. And as people We are all human beings, equal in every way.

We are all human beings, equal in every way. side. This is an inalienable principle.

side. This is an inalienable principle. of social work.

of social work. And people are different.

And people are different. and we can only work with people,

and we can only work with people, working on our social relationships

working on our social relationships We start from this principle. But there are two

We start from this principle. But there are two qualities, two human skills

qualities, two human skills which I find essential in an assistant

which I find essential in an assistant social, in addition to its eh of its do

social, in addition to its eh of its do having incorporated that we are the

having incorporated that we are the agents of social rights. Beyond

agents of social rights. Beyond Of these, there are two: persistence and

Of these, there are two: persistence and perseverance.

perseverance. Don't forget, it's PP, PP,

Don't forget, it's PP, PP, Persistence and perseverance.

Persistence and perseverance. They seem like synonyms, but they are not synonyms.

They seem like synonyms, but they are not synonyms. When you are at your work

When you are at your work difficult, remember, PP, persistence and

difficult, remember, PP, persistence and perseverance. Persistence, what is it?

perseverance. Persistence, what is it? persistent

persistent in relation to the objectives. Therefore, we

in relation to the objectives. Therefore, we We set the objectives and we have to

We set the objectives and we have to persist

persist in not achieving the objectives and quality,

in not achieving the objectives and quality, Pay close attention, and the quality of movement.

Pay close attention, and the quality of movement. obstacles. The social worker is a

obstacles. The social worker is a obstacle handling technician,

obstacle handling technician, It's not about civil construction.

It's not about civil construction. is one of the obstacles to equality.

is one of the obstacles to equality. People's opportunity.

People's opportunity. Therefore, we must persevere.

Therefore, we must persevere. in this main objective, remove the

in this main objective, remove the hospital. When a person addresses

hospital. When a person addresses the social worker, when we want

the social worker, when we want to transform something, it's because it has a

to transform something, it's because it has a The problem is that there is an obstacle.

The problem is that there is an obstacle. because it has a difficulty and the

because it has a difficulty and the social worker serves to with the

social worker serves to with the people, with communities, etc. Then,

people, with communities, etc. Then, Let's see how we overcome this.

Let's see how we overcome this. portal. This is our job.

portal. This is our job. daily life. Why? to enjoy the

daily life. Why? to enjoy the rights, to be a person and to have all the

rights, to be a person and to have all the conditions for it to take place, to be achieved

conditions for it to take place, to be achieved their purposes. The second, no less

their purposes. The second, no less What's important is perseverance.

What's important is perseverance. Perseverance is the ability to maintain

Perseverance is the ability to maintain firm, to remain firm throughout the

firm, to remain firm throughout the processes.

processes. Therefore, everyone knows that in the service

Therefore, everyone knows that in the service social transformation

social transformation to solve a problem.

to solve a problem. Normally when we talk about problems

Normally when we talk about problems We immediately thought of a sure-fire solution.

We immediately thought of a sure-fire solution. In social work, social problems

In social work, social problems They are complex, not simple. There is no

They are complex, not simple. There is no a single solution to the problems

a single solution to the problems social. Why?

social. Why? Because the problems are complex.

Because the problems are complex. social. We'll get there in a moment. Therefore, the

social. We'll get there in a moment. Therefore, the Perseverance, I repeat, is the ability to...

Perseverance, I repeat, is the ability to... to remain steadfast throughout the processes. what

to remain steadfast throughout the processes. what Sometimes the processes aren't, no

Sometimes the processes aren't, no They always walk straight ahead, huh, they do

They always walk straight ahead, huh, they do many curves, then intersections,

many curves, then intersections, after obstacles,

after obstacles, perseverance. If that is the goal,

perseverance. If that is the goal, we persist in the objective with

we persist in the objective with perseverance.

perseverance. Therefore, these are two human qualities.

Therefore, these are two human qualities. that any professional in this area of

that any professional in this area of human sciences, particularly

human sciences, particularly Social assistance programs require practice.

Social assistance programs require practice. They have to acquire it. It's not just methodologies.

They have to acquire it. It's not just methodologies. In the case of technical intervention, it is the person who

In the case of technical intervention, it is the person who We are, it is the person we are capable of

We are, it is the person we are capable of to be able to enter processes

to be able to enter processes professionals. Without certain

professionals. Without certain skills,

skills, uh, it's difficult for us

uh, it's difficult for us to achieve our goal. At the end of

to achieve our goal. At the end of accounts, what is the achievement of any

accounts, what is the achievement of any professional?

professional? It's about helping to transform situations.

It's about helping to transform situations. Negatives turning into positives. This is the

Negatives turning into positives. This is the objective, whether of people or of

objective, whether of people or of institutions, whether from the community. This is it.

institutions, whether from the community. This is it. our work. Therefore,

our work. Therefore, in light of these facts and with these

in light of these facts and with these skills,

skills, We are facing complex problems.

We are facing complex problems. I think that's already a well-known topic.

I think that's already a well-known topic. Social problems are problems that...

Social problems are problems that... What does it mean? I already mentioned one.

What does it mean? I already mentioned one. a tiny bit that will exist but never will.

a tiny bit that will exist but never will. for a complex problem a single

for a complex problem a single A precise and accurate answer for your solution.

A precise and accurate answer for your solution. Never. There isn't just one. Why? Why

Never. There isn't just one. Why? Why the person, as Father Francisco used to say,

the person, as Father Francisco used to say, It had a very interesting expression.

It had a very interesting expression. which said that people are polyhedra.

Eh, he wrote, I ask that in a cyclical this. What does that mean? Eh,

this. What does that mean? Eh, A person has many facets. person,

A person has many facets. person, for example, in a situation of poverty,

for example, in a situation of poverty, Poverty can be the problem.

Poverty can be the problem. housing, but behind the housing, what

housing, but behind the housing, what Is it coming? Unhealthy housing or lack thereof.

Is it coming? Unhealthy housing or lack thereof. housing or health. And then what?

housing or health. And then what? It comes with health and the lack of

It comes with health and the lack of housing? The children go to school.

housing? The children go to school. and are unable to succeed in school

and are unable to succeed in school because it doesn't have a motivating environment.

because it doesn't have a motivating environment. This wing is suitable for your job.

This wing is suitable for your job. Therefore, people are polyhedra, they have

Therefore, people are polyhedra, they have many faces. poverty is a

many faces. poverty is a multi-causal problem

multi-causal problem And what's more, it's not just multicausal, it's not the

And what's more, it's not just multicausal, it's not the sum of causes,

sum of causes, and

and They interact with each other and form a cycle.

They interact with each other and form a cycle. which is called the cycle of poverty, because

which is called the cycle of poverty, because Interacting reinforces the problem and makes

Interacting reinforces the problem and makes A knot, isn't it? It makes a knot and therefore it is

A knot, isn't it? It makes a knot and therefore it is even more difficult to solve. That's why,

even more difficult to solve. That's why, Poverty is intergenerational, isn't it?

Poverty is intergenerational, isn't it? throughout the generations, because there is a

throughout the generations, because there is a A hard knot that is reinforced along the way.

A hard knot that is reinforced along the way. time if poverty lasts a long time,

time if poverty lasts a long time, Because the person gradually loses capacity.

Because the person gradually loses capacity. Poverty, you know, they know it's mainly

Poverty, you know, they know it's mainly Stress is a form of life, and stress kills.

Stress is a form of life, and stress kills. Poverty also kills.

Poverty also kills. because people live in anguish of

because people live in anguish of day-to-day, in the stress of day-to-day life. Only

day-to-day, in the stress of day-to-day life. Only They think about it, they say: "Oh, the

They think about it, they say: "Oh, the People settle in, people don't.

People settle in, people don't. They participate because they have to survive."

They participate because they have to survive." And when you think about survival, no

And when you think about survival, no If you think about the day after tomorrow, you think

If you think about the day after tomorrow, you think logo. Therefore, there are no projects.

logo. Therefore, there are no projects. Possible options for the day after tomorrow.

Possible options for the day after tomorrow. Therefore,

Therefore, It is indeed a problem that we have to

It is indeed a problem that we have to prevent. If you don't take precautions, it's very risky.

prevent. If you don't take precautions, it's very risky. difficult to solve.

difficult to solve. Therefore, it is complex. Why? Why

Therefore, it is complex. Why? Why It has multiple causes, because the causes

It has multiple causes, because the causes They reinforce each other. Therefore, the solutions,

They reinforce each other. Therefore, the solutions, solutions to these problems also

solutions to these problems also They have to be multidimensional.

They have to be multidimensional. with a variety of resources and with

with a variety of resources and with a diversity of protagonists.

a diversity of protagonists. And therefore, it requires new capabilities.

And therefore, it requires new capabilities. for agents, management skills,

for agents, management skills, ability to manage conflicts,

ability to manage conflicts, capacity

capacity of interinstitutional relations,

of interinstitutional relations, Yeah, teamwork, because

Yeah, teamwork, because alone, each of the provisions does not

alone, each of the provisions does not They could naturally help to solve

They could naturally help to solve problem. Therefore, this new one is not

problem. Therefore, this new one is not because they hadn't already existed and we

because they hadn't already existed and we We didn't know why, but it is.

We didn't know why, but it is. theorized at this moment that there are

theorized at this moment that there are human problems that are complex and

human problems that are complex and that do not have a single solution and that

that do not have a single solution and that They do indeed require a set of solutions.

They do indeed require a set of solutions. and therefore, they are competencies, they are skills

and therefore, they are competencies, they are skills formal requirements that must be acquired, but

formal requirements that must be acquired, but also human skills, the ability to

also human skills, the ability to to persist and to resist.

to persist and to resist. I'll tell you how much time I have.

I'll tell you how much time I have. To find out.

To find out. I still have 10 minutes.

I still have 10 minutes. So I put down five ideas here, I want

So I put down five ideas here, I want share with you

share with you which seem to me to be the measures that the

which seem to me to be the measures that the I'm not going to say anything about social work.

I'm not going to say anything about social work. Again, so don't have too many.

Again, so don't have too many. expectations.

expectations. The news is that I should be the one to say it, but

The news is that I should be the one to say it, but nothing.

nothing. Why? For me, each one of us

Why? For me, each one of us Oh, it adds something, doesn't it? Or it says of

Oh, it adds something, doesn't it? Or it says of a different way, but I'm not...

a different way, but I'm not... discovering gunpowder, but in fact it is

discovering gunpowder, but in fact it is what I, after my practice,

what I, after my practice, As you can imagine, I have quite a lot.

As you can imagine, I have quite a lot. taking into account the long time that

taking into account the long time that I work and I'm going to continue to

I work and I'm going to continue to I work, therefore, I remain active.

I work, therefore, I remain active. How old am I?

How old am I? Go.

Go. I'll give you a mobile phone. Want to get it right?

I'll give you a mobile phone. Want to get it right? [laughter]

[laughter] We'll leave that for later. Sorry, it's just for

We'll leave that for later. Sorry, it's just for wake up a little so as not to

wake up a little so as not to fall asleep. [laughter]

fall asleep. [laughter] I'm not speaking ill of anyone,

I'm not speaking ill of anyone, Go ahead, but I wanted to participate.

It is fine. Go, students, I am for you. great grandmother. It is fine.

72 79.

I hope to be here with you at 97. [laughter]

Ready. So, what are the five?

So, what are the five? ideas

ideas They are crucial.

They are crucial. for social work and for the

for social work and for the Social intervention in general?

Social intervention in general? It's not just about assistance, but the

It's not just about assistance, but the The welfare department plays a role here.

The welfare department plays a role here. fundamental

fundamental I translated it in the "a" and "iou" section of the service.

I translated it in the "a" and "iou" section of the service. social, the basics. Then ladies

social, the basics. Then ladies teachers will certainly develop or

teachers will certainly develop or They are already developing them. Then

They are already developing them. Then What is important at work?

What is important at work? social?

social? I'll put it another way. Therefore,

I'll put it another way. Therefore, social work is an exercise, a

social work is an exercise, a a profession or even an art, if we

a profession or even an art, if we If you want, because besides being good and beneficial, it has

If you want, because besides being good and beneficial, it has How beautiful it is, isn't it? It has to be the

How beautiful it is, isn't it? It has to be the three, the three objectives, there must be

three, the three objectives, there must be to associate and increasingly this has

to associate and increasingly this has sense. Therefore, neither can we.

sense. Therefore, neither can we. individually, social worker

individually, social worker solve problems on their own.

solve problems on their own. One appeal is not enough, considering the

One appeal is not enough, considering the complexity of the problems, for

complexity of the problems, for to solve social problems. Therefore,

to solve social problems. Therefore, It is imperative. We have the ability to

It is imperative. We have the ability to to move resources, desires,

to move resources, desires, capabilities around the solution of

capabilities around the solution of problems.

problems. And I'm talking about all levels, no.

And I'm talking about all levels, no. and? at the institutional level of resources

and? at the institutional level of resources institutional, at the policy level,

institutional, at the policy level, to move policies and resources and to

to move policies and resources and to level of professional skills.

level of professional skills. Therefore, associate

Therefore, associate It's about joining,

It's about joining, It's about connecting, it's about establishing bonds, it's

It's about connecting, it's about establishing bonds, it's to mobilize synergies for the common good and

to mobilize synergies for the common good and In consistent practice, as we already know,

In consistent practice, as we already know, empowerment,

empowerment, through what the lady

through what the lady will develop better than I did

will develop better than I did participation. Empowerment only happens

participation. Empowerment only happens when there is participation, otherwise it is

when there is participation, otherwise it is cosmetics.

cosmetics. Cosmetic intervention is also common.

Cosmetic intervention is also common. It seems like it is, but it isn't. Participation

It seems like it is, but it isn't. Participation only true

only true if it is worked on with people and if

if it is worked on with people and if to be born from and if it is from that

to be born from and if it is from that work process to develop that

work process to develop that which we call empowering people.

which we call empowering people. You know there's an author who defines

You know there's an author who defines poverty

poverty How does non-participation work?

How does non-participation work? It's very simple. It was, it was that which accompanied

It's very simple. It was, it was that which accompanied Bruto da Costa's doctorate. He

Bruto da Costa's doctorate. He He often said: "My master says

He often said: "My master says "Poverty is non-participation."

"Poverty is non-participation." It was interesting to say from this point on...

It was interesting to say from this point on... Why is it non-participation? Let them

Why is it non-participation? Let them this homework. Why is that

this homework. Why is that Is poverty non-participation? No

Is poverty non-participation? No Participation in what?

Participation in what? Because people are marginalized. If not

Because people are marginalized. If not Participates, but is on the sidelines. If not

Participates, but is on the sidelines. If not Participates, but is not part of.

Participates, but is not part of. It is excluded.

It is excluded. And therefore, associating is all to our

And therefore, associating is all to our It's not this one, it's that one, and

It's not this one, it's that one, and particularly the people themselves

particularly the people themselves individually or collectively that are

individually or collectively that are subjects of our action and to whom we act

subjects of our action and to whom we act we are directing our action. Without that

we are directing our action. Without that participation does not lead to transformation

participation does not lead to transformation social. There may be social cosmetics, but

social. There may be social cosmetics, but There is no change. Therefore, this is a

There is no change. Therefore, this is a fundamental principle. The inside of this

fundamental principle. The inside of this associating this issue is increasingly becoming a concern.

associating this issue is increasingly becoming a concern. very important, I don't know if I am

very important, I don't know if I am working on this topic, which is for the teams,

working on this topic, which is for the teams, teamwork, naturally the

teamwork, naturally the Complex society requires multiple types of knowledge.

Complex society requires multiple types of knowledge. multi-skills

multi-skills even the ones we think are more

even the ones we think are more recessed. People in law, the

recessed. People in law, the people of history, the people of

people of history, the people of finances have to be in the area of

finances have to be in the area of combating poverty and other problems

combating poverty and other problems social.

social. But this was already being discussed in my time, but

But this was already being discussed in my time, but It's difficult to do. But at this moment

It's difficult to do. But at this moment many teams are questioned.

many teams are questioned. interdisciplinary,

interdisciplinary, because what truly needs to

because what truly needs to Transdisciplinary teams are what exist.

Transdisciplinary teams are what exist. because it cannot

because it cannot to divide, to segment the needs of

to divide, to segment the needs of people. People have needs.

people. People have needs. Several, but they are holistic.

Several, but they are holistic. It's a whole. And therefore, the interventions

It's a whole. And therefore, the interventions they have to be done in a way

they have to be done in a way transdisciplinary

transdisciplinary for each person not to take a part of

for each person not to take a part of problems of the subjects to whom we

problems of the subjects to whom we We can help. Therefore, this is an exercise.

We can help. Therefore, this is an exercise. It's difficult, but I think that's what we have.

It's difficult, but I think that's what we have. that work, that is, having the discussion

that work, that is, having the discussion of the problems as a whole. This happens

of the problems as a whole. This happens very important in medicine. in medicine it happens

very important in medicine. in medicine it happens very much, but then there will be an intervention.

very much, but then there will be an intervention. transdisciplinary intervention

transdisciplinary intervention transdisciplinary, the discussion is

transdisciplinary, the discussion is multidisciplinary.

multidisciplinary. This then requires work on

This then requires work on This is one of the questions that arise.

This is one of the questions that arise. at this moment at various levels and in

at this moment at various levels and in various fields. Another one, the second one to follow.

various fields. Another one, the second one to follow. A is a

Following the A. What letter does this represent? to catch you. They're not paying attention. No

to catch you. They're not paying attention. No They are paying attention.

They are paying attention. There is.

There is. AND. So, what is it?

AND. So, what is it? What are we going to look for? There are many

What are we going to look for? There are many words with and I'm not going to ask you if

words with and I'm not going to ask you if No, we didn't finish one. It's about getting involved.

No, we didn't finish one. It's about getting involved. Involve.

Once again, excuse me, the Pope Francisco is always so accurate.

Francisco is always so accurate. In what Pope Francis says, he says a

In what Pope Francis says, he says a thing: "It's very important to count the

thing: "It's very important to count the "They are poor, but it's better to embrace them."

And here we have the involvement, It's acceptance, it's understanding,

It's acceptance, it's understanding, it is not? This is information without value judgments.

it is not? This is information without value judgments. It's empathy.

It's empathy. This is what the action means. And for that reason,

This is what the action means. And for that reason, The intervention has to be immersive.

The intervention has to be immersive. The territory, which had already been lost for

The territory, which had already been lost for for some time its value has been the

for some time its value has been the fundamental substrate of transformation.

fundamental substrate of transformation. It is in the place that life is real and is

It is in the place that life is real and is there where we can do

there where we can do real transformation

real transformation because it is in the space-time of life of

because it is in the space-time of life of people and resources. It doesn't mean

people and resources. It doesn't mean that there is no contribution from the regional level,

that there is no contribution from the regional level, national, of all, but it's local

national, of all, but it's local That life is real. That's where you have to

That life is real. That's where you have to during immersion,

during immersion, social work and transformation.

social work and transformation. Therefore, it results once again from a

Therefore, it results once again from a A complex perspective, isn't it? We have to

A complex perspective, isn't it? We have to look at the community in its

look at the community in its multiple is in its multiples

multiple is in its multiples dimensions. Therefore,

dimensions. Therefore, that's the difficulty

that's the difficulty Yes, as I repeat, in social problems it is

Yes, as I repeat, in social problems it is to have a single answer

to have a single answer and accurate.

and accurate. Don't think about it, it's all much more complex than that.

Don't think about it, it's all much more complex than that. That's it. And there's a topic here that I...

That's it. And there's a topic here that I... I've been thinking about this issue.

I've been thinking about this issue. You know that at this moment there is in

You know that at this moment there is in Portugal, as is the case in other countries,

Portugal, as is the case in other countries, This practice of para is not unique to Portugal.

This practice of para is not unique to Portugal. For every problem, a strategy. The problem

For every problem, a strategy. The problem aging has a strategy, the

aging has a strategy, the The problem of children at risk has a

The problem of children at risk has a strategy. The problem of poverty is a

strategy. The problem of poverty is a Therefore, the strategy is a silo. Silo.

Therefore, the strategy is a silo. Silo. I'm seeing the Alentejo region with the silos of

I'm seeing the Alentejo region with the silos of cereals. some along with other silos

cereals. some along with other silos problem solving.

problem solving. When we are talking about

When we are talking about integration,

integration, it is not? Well, how do we admit that

it is not? Well, how do we admit that every problem, that every social group

every problem, that every social group you have

you have What if we thought about it another way?

What if we thought about it another way? Just a little bit of revolution here.

Just a little bit of revolution here. What if we think outside the box? What if we

What if we think outside the box? What if we Thinking outside the box, what is that?

Thinking outside the box, what is that? What do all these people have in common? To all

What do all these people have in common? To all These people have these problems, it's the

These people have these problems, it's the vulnerability,

It's a mental illness. It's isolation,

It's isolation, It's the lack of access. Therefore, everyone

It's the lack of access. Therefore, everyone vulnerable social groups have a

vulnerable social groups have a something common, which is vulnerability,

something common, which is vulnerability, although with specificities.

although with specificities. Therefore, to mainstream it

Therefore, to mainstream it not of social groups, but of

not of social groups, but of problems that affect social groups.

problems that affect social groups. Hmm.

Hmm. And then poverty, as it has a theme that

And then poverty, as it has a theme that but it is for all social groups, the

but it is for all social groups, the the dependencies

the dependencies for all social groups in a way

for all social groups in a way Everything is different, and we need to develop strategies.

Everything is different, and we need to develop strategies. not for the affected social groups, but

not for the affected social groups, but for the problematic

for the problematic which is for integration.

which is for integration. The idea remains.

The idea remains. but I think it's worth thinking about,

but I think it's worth thinking about, because this then has repercussions on

because this then has repercussions on

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YouTube Transcript:IV Congresso Internacional 2025 | Humanismo, Direitos Humanos e Cidadania - Dia 2

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IV Congresso Internacional 2025 | Humanismo, Direitos Humanos e Cidadania - Dia 2