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IV Congresso Internacional 2025 | Humanismo, Direitos Humanos e Cidadania - Dia 2 | Universidade Lusófona | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: IV Congresso Internacional 2025 | Humanismo, Direitos Humanos e Cidadania - Dia 2
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This content is a transcript from a congress focusing on human rights, humanism, and citizenship, with a particular emphasis on inclusive education and social intervention. It highlights the challenges and complexities of promoting equity, diversity, and democracy in educational and social systems, influenced by market forces, identity politics, and evolving democratic ideals.
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Good morning.
We still have
There are plenty of participants to join
to be accredited for this second day, but
However, let's begin...
our work. We already have many as well.
People who follow us are online. As
He said yesterday, this is a congress that has
the mixed modality, in which there is in fact the
opportunity for many people
to participate. We have among the
participants in this room in person
and online more than five hundred of
participants. Therefore, 500
The number of participants in this event exceeded...
In fact, our expectations are even
We had to change the amphitheater room.
because we moved to this larger room
to be able to accommodate so many people.
It's a good thing that's the case. That means
This event has been very well received and
because of the quality of the conferences that we
We have presented it, and it certainly deserves it.
That it be very well publicized.
This is our second day of work.
Yesterday we had a conference of
Opening with Professor Henrique
Ravieres Dias Gutieres, an excellent and
which received excellent feedback. Yeah, it is
recorded on YouTube, we can go back to
View. Many people asked if
They can view it, they can go back to
to visualize these interventions, such as
all the interventions of this congress.
Today we will also have another
excellent opening conference for the
second day with Professor David
Rodrigues, who also everyone
He knows a lot in Portugal, like everyone else.
We, the Portuguese, know and...
We are accustomed to quality and excellence.
of their interventions. This intervention
Professor David Rodrigues will
mediated by Professor Margarida Belgium.
Belgium.
But just like yesterday, I expressed my gratitude.
to the organizing committee and support
legitimate site through Vanessa and
From Lígia, I would also like to leave a
thanks to other people who
They collaborate on these two days and they are not
less important and are no less
Important, they have given support.
fundamental for logistics and
organization of this congress. A, and are
students, doctoral students and
master's students who are collaborating
Join us in organizing these two days.
and in the preparation for referral to
the parallel sessions. This support is
fundamental and also deserves to be
highlighted. And if you'll allow me to...
Allow me, let me just highlight two here.
people who also symbolize others
students, but the a eh Maira,
Maira,
Maira, I apologize, Maira Félix, uh,
who has been following the room here and that
He will give us the floor, if we
we need to ask some questions to
our guest speakers and also the
Ricardo Bacalhau, in support of eh
computer science which is fundamental for
transmission. live and for
broadcasting this event to the world
whole. Thank you all very much, and then...
I wish you a good day at work. Logo
next we're going to have we're going to have the a
thematic conference on education and
inclusion. Immediately following the intervention of
Professor David Rodrigues with a
communication entitled Education
inclusive, a path of rights and
duties. Thank you very much. Good morning, [applause]
Good morning everyone. It's a big one.
It is an honor to be here to present my
dear friend David Rodrigues, longtime friend
date, since the complicities of
Introduction of Technologies in Education
in 80 from 85 onwards. And now it is too.
in this role, from whom have I learned?
very much in this area of social inclusion and
educational. So Professor David
Rodrigues is a professor of education.
In particular, he obtained his doctorate in
University of Lisbon.
Can you hear me?
No, this is better, isn't it? So I'm going
repeat. Professor David Rodrigues is
special education teacher, obtained the
doctorate at the University of Lisbon and
He taught at Portuguese universities and
foreign countries like Belgium, Brazil and
China. He ended his teaching career in
2015 as a full professor.
He worked on international projects.
for UNESCO, UNICEF, Humanity and
Inclusion, on topics of rights.
Humans and social and educational inclusion. AND
guest speaker in countries of
Europe, Africa, Asia, America
from the North and the South. He published 32 books.
and dozens of articles in magazines specialty.
specialty.
He is the founder of the Pro-Inclusion Association and
He was its president between 2008 and 2020. He is
director of the Inclusive Education magazine
same association. He received in 2017 the
leadership excellence award
international by the Council for Expeditional
Children of the United States. In 2020,
He was awarded the gold medal of
human rights by the Assembly of
Republic. In 2023, it was agreed by
President of the Republic with the great
Grand Order of Instruction for High Command Officers
public. He has been a member of the Council since 2015.
National Education.
So, Mr. Counselor, thanks.
Wow, this is pretty weak.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Ah, that's better now. It's better. Eh,
I wanted to say that the applause that
They hit me, it was for the presentation, because
I still haven't said anything. That question
Regarding the excellent conference, it's always...
an expectation that may not be
It's filled in, isn't it? but it was for the
presentation. Oh, I wanted to, I wanted to.
Greetings to everyone present here.
And to say that it's a great pleasure to be here,
It's a great pleasure to be here, especially because
This is an opportunity we have to reflect.
again on things, to reflect,
to reflect, to think again about the
things and think again about the
human rights, think about it again
Regarding inclusion, it's always a
opportunity. And that's what I thank her for.
organization is organization of this
seminar. Today the United Nations does
80 years old. 80 years old. And according to
statements from United Nations officials
United, the United Nations has never been
in a situation as difficult as this one.
financing problems, problems of
credibility, problems even to
They are able to maintain it as an organization.
Who would have thought? Who would have thought that the Nations
United, as we have always become accustomed to
See it as an icon, as a representation.
of human rights? How do we
We've reached this point where we see that in the 80s
years of the United Nations today, if
Does it really call its existence into question? and the
its relevance. And that's why it's so...
Okay, we're organizing a seminar here.
about human rights. Uh, in this
perspective of resisting, resisting. Today
We're in the re, right? It was about resisting.
Yeah, I also wanted to before we start, huh...
along the same lines as Professor António
Teodoro yesterday when he opened the
seminar, make a reference to
Basically, that's what I wanted to say.
Today's discussion with you was about human rights.
and about inclusion. And speaking of
human rights and inclusion, speaking to you
a little bit, and that's where we're going.
to lead, to lead into the question of
inclusive education.
I only have half an hour, this is good news.
For you. Uh, I only have half an hour to
to speak. And Professor Margarida
Belcior has a guillotine that starts
The 25-minute mark cuts me off at the head.
Therefore, we are confident that this will
Run smoothly.
Perhaps a first reflection that I
I'd like to talk to you, because when
we talk about education and we talk about
inclusion, we often look to
At the micro level, we say: "What is it that
"Is there a problem in education?" And within the
education, we still say: "But what is it that
Do you have a hard time with inclusion?
We often have the idea that everything
It runs perfectly all over the world.
Except for inclusion. Inclusion is the great
problem. If we make a cloud of
words about what inclusion is
the word that evokes in people
It appears more that inclusion is a problem.
Oh, and everything's working fine at your school,
We have some difficulties here. And the
Inclusion, oh, that's a problem.
Inclusion is linked to the problem. THE
The biggest issue is the problem. AND
many times we look at the question
In education, we look at inclusion.
as if that were all, as if that were all.
located in that place. And I liked it,
perhaps, before actually talking about
inclusion, saying that there are other forces
more months, more macro influence
education and what influences education,
Education and inclusion. This is not where
I should carry it, but I should carry it.
Elsewhere. No, it isn't
OK.
And now, yes,
I'm going to talk to you about three aspects that I
I think they strongly influence the
development of education and
inclusion. The first one, first one is without
In doubt, the market, what could we do?
today, to call it something more direct, the
capitalism, the form of organization
economic and even social that we
We find them in our societies. And we
what we are experiencing now is a
perplexity regarding a set of
promises that were made to us and to a
set of realities with which we
we are facing each other. The market
He promised us access to consumer goods.
Everyone will have access to everything, to
consumer goods. Fantastic. It is prosperity
prosperity
at its best. He promised us a
globalization. I mean, it doesn't matter.
whether you live in Africa or whether you live
in Sweden. Everything will work out fine.
Globalization is what we will achieve.
Everyone should have access to prosperity.
And he also promised us meritocracy,
true meritocracy. What is it that
Would this be true meritocracy? Stay
rested, because the people who go
to have access to the places of tupo, to
places of power are, without a doubt, without
There is room for doubt, the people who are
more capable, the people who are more
independent people, those who take more
public service account. These are the
people that capitalism promised us
that were to arrive at the places of rag.
rag.
But despite having promised that, uh,
He took other things from us. He took us away.
many other things. The first is that the
Increased inequality. We don't have
There is no doubt that nowadays the systems
economic and social conditions in which we live
dramatically increased the a
inequality between populations, not only
among the populations within the country, but
between countries, between regions. THE
inequality today has become a
true, a true, a virus, a
A real virus that affects the whole world.
Obviously, the issue of poverty and the consumerism,
consumerism,
our economic systems do not
They managed to abolish poverty, by
On the contrary, eh, as I'm going to show you.
In the following graph, in Portugal, if
if there were no transfers
eh transfers at the level of
subsidies, at the level of all this, we
We would have more than 40% of people living in poverty.
in Portugal. we have 18% or 19% because
There are social transfers, because
otherwise we would have a number
immeasurably greater. And obviously
Yes, capitalism also brought us the
economic disaster. And I wanted to remind you
that not long ago the person in charge
by ecological policies in France
He said something terrible. I say that it is
absolutely terrible. He said: "I don't believe it."
that it is possible to reduce the impact of
climate change within
"economic systems that we have."
Amazing, isn't it? He said: "It's not
It is credible that we can reduce this.
impact within the logic of the system
economic situation that we have, which is very
Interesting, isn't it? Because we have
This idea is always benign, isn't it? What is it
What's needed is to separate the trash, and that's how it's done.
And this will go there. And we are forgetting.
of the big of the of the great photograph in which
It is said: "It will not be possible to take shortcuts
major climate changes, the fatal ones
climate change, without a change
important in our consumption system,
in our production system, in our
political system."
Well, here, we have an idea of how...
Poverty has evolved in Portugal. Us
We are, apparently, downloading a
just a little bit there, especially in poverty, in
intensity of poverty, but if you add them up
those two numbers, we're going to
exactly how to find that. Let's go
to encounter poverty that is rising by 40%. AND
Sad, isn't it? A system that tells us
He promised prosperity if we say
that in 10 Portuguese people, four are poor
and there's no way out of this
poverty without prevalent aid, a
constant and essential to what would be the state.
state.
From an ecological perspective, we also have...
This is the question, isn't it? That after us
if we cut down the entire forest,
We're having a fantastic opening. Us
we are going to inaugurate
a chestnut tree.
It's Chestnut Tree Day. The day of
chestnut. Of course, we before
We distributed 30 hectares of chestnut trees.
But it was necessary. It was, it really was
essential. We have it, but now let's go.
plant a chestnut tree and this
The chestnut tree will truly be the symbol.
of our ecological determination. That's it,
First place I wanted to call you
Pay attention. The market has influenced us.
particularly strong at the level of education.
But there is another issue that concerns us.
heavily influenced, the issue of
Respect for identity. And what is it that
What did identity promise us? Respect
through the identity of people, of groups,
He promised us that we had
knowledge, appreciation and preservation.
That identities were preserved, that
Identities were valued.
That was the promise. But what is ours?
reality? It's because it took away from us the
trust. We live in today's world.
many societies absolutely set up
insecurity in relation to others
groups, in relation to other people. To the
people who say: "Ah, but I don't go out
at night because I saw a car with two
"Black people inside the car." I said, "But
I wasn't confusing the color of the car.
with the people who were inside. No,
There is no fear. What happened? But it was...
Did I see it at midnight? I don't walk there.
Alone, right? So what's going on?
I live in a neighborhood where gypsies live. AND
You can see that, can't you? The next day
There was a person who told me: "No
In my neighborhood, there are families like that.
Gypsy women. "Do you see?" I said, "No."
I can't see anything.
I can't see anything. But if you show a
maybe I can see a photograph. But
this idea of trust, how does it work?
identity, the concept of identity in
Did it undermine trust so much? Identities
Balkanized. This is very interesting.
Yashamk's book, Identity Trap
He says that nowadays we are
in a very curious situation that is us,
In order to recognize identities, we have
Instead of Balkanizing them, we have to isolate them.
And from there he says: "This is a
"trap". Because from the moment
where we say: "Ah, you know, I am
"Very feminist." You see? The
feminists think that, you know I am
in favor of people with disabilities, the
people with disabilities, etc. From
from the moment we balkanized the
identities, we are immediately to
to create an additional difficulty for
there needs to be true inclusion, because
we can only assert ours
identities within a perspective
closed, Balkanized, almost as if
were it a confrontational perspective, a
warrior perspective in relation to
our identities. This is also a
current problem.
Another issue that was created for us
by this crisis of
Identity is belief in freedom and in
responsibility as values
unrestricted. That is to say, freedom and
the responsibility lies with everyone
people, regardless of what it is
a person's socioeconomic level,
regardless of age
person, right? From speaking to a boy of
6 years, so you didn't know it wasn't...
Is it possible to do that? Didn't you know? You don't
Did you know? Masamd, this is a lack of
the responsibility for this falls on a child of
5 years. It's a lack of... And we think, and
This is a neoliberal perspective.
Extremely dangerous, is what we think that the
People are free and responsible.
regardless of the situation in which
they are. Why? Because it's easier that way.
to hold them responsible and blame them
due to their own situation. Why is that
Are you poor? Why are you
Excluded? It's easy. It's because you don't
You make good use of your freedom, you fool.
Not you, so you're a free person, you
How come you don't use yours properly?
freedom? And since you don't use it well
Your freedom, you are irresponsible. AND,
therefore, the blame for the entire situation in
The place you are in is exclusively yours. And for
This means that identity has also become a
big trap.
And I liked, third aspect, a question
also at the macro level that it has
influenced education and inclusion is
this concept of democracy. And you
Just think about one thing, the idea seems
good. Imagine a society in which
It's the strongest who rule. The most
strong. The strongest, that is, the
those who are stronger, who can pack a punch
It will affect the other person's mind if they misbehave.
OK? And these people are few and far between.
They sent many. And the idea was very
good. The idea is this: if I say one
Man, one vote, if I give you the chance.
I will vote for everyone.
plotting against people, these powerful people, no.
and? I'm going to plot against them because I'm going to say,
since they are the majority,
I will plot against the powerful through one manote.
one manote. What an illusion we had.
What an illusion we had. What an illusion we had. We had the
What an illusion we had. We had the The illusion that if people could each
The illusion that if people could each If one of them were to vote, they would vote in favor.
If one of them were to vote, they would vote in favor. for their well-being, they would vote in favor of
for their well-being, they would vote in favor of for the well-being of everyone, they would fly to
for the well-being of everyone, they would fly to in favor of social harmony,
in favor of social harmony, through the end of exploitation, etc.
through the end of exploitation, etc. Therefore, our idea is, if we
Therefore, our idea is, if we if we could get the exploited to vote,
if we could get the exploited to vote, We would have a system that meets their needs.
We would have a system that meets their needs. Because they are the majority. And this
Because they are the majority. And this The promise of democracy, as you know, is not
The promise of democracy, as you know, is not It came true. One second promise
It came true. One second promise The essence of democracy was respect for
The essence of democracy was respect for minorities. It was to say that if we have
minorities. It was to say that if we have a democratic system, therefore minorities
a democratic system, therefore minorities They will be respected. Without prejudice to what
They will be respected. Without prejudice to what I'll tell you next, let me tell you.
I'll tell you next, let me tell you. that this is an absolutely
that this is an absolutely crucial nowadays, because we have the
crucial nowadays, because we have the The idea that democracy is power
The idea that democracy is power of the most voted. It's not just that we say if he
of the most voted. It's not just that we say if he He gets the most votes, what do we have?
He gets the most votes, what do we have? What to do? If democracy is only for
What to do? If democracy is only for defend those who received the most votes and the majority,
defend those who received the most votes and the majority, it becomes an autocracy just like any other
it becomes an autocracy just like any other other. It becomes an autocracy equal to
other. It becomes an autocracy equal to any other. The great, the great ethos,
any other. The great, the great ethos, the great, the great essence of
the great, the great essence of Democracy is about defending minorities. It's us
Democracy is about defending minorities. It's us we can within a given
we can within a given The system knows that there are people,
The system knows that there are people, Obviously, they have legitimacy.
Obviously, they have legitimacy. to get organized and to get things done,
to get organized and to get things done, but that this action by these people is
but that this action by these people is deeply connected to the protection of
deeply connected to the protection of minorities. If democracy does not defend
minorities. If democracy does not defend minorities are equal to everyone else.
minorities are equal to everyone else. autocracy, any dictatorship that we
autocracy, any dictatorship that we We would abhor it.
We would abhor it. And obviously, democracy
And obviously, democracy He promised us the separation of powers.
He promised us the separation of powers. That is, as they say, not to put
That is, as they say, not to put all the eggs in the same basket And the
all the eggs in the same basket And the that we are witnessing, passing by
that we are witnessing, passing by Now, what has been taken from us is...
Now, what has been taken from us is... Respect for minorities has not been...
Respect for minorities has not been... obvious. in many countries the issue of
obvious. in many countries the issue of a person having one more vote than their own
a person having one more vote than their own opponents arrive to publish and to
opponents arrive to publish and to to enforce unjust laws and forms,
to enforce unjust laws and forms, Obviously, democratic oppression. THE
Obviously, democratic oppression. THE oppression was as if the person had
oppression was as if the person had one one a stick that was called democracy
one one a stick that was called democracy a stick. And he hits the other one on the head with the stick.
a stick. And he hits the other one on the head with the stick. person and says: "Here you go
person and says: "Here you go democratic." Do you see? You are
democratic." Do you see? You are I'll take it, but it's in the name of democracy. In
I'll take it, but it's in the name of democracy. In The name of democracy. respect for
The name of democracy. respect for minorities, respect for the separation of
minorities, respect for the separation of powers. When we meet today in
powers. When we meet today in countries, such as Hungary, for example,
countries, such as Hungary, for example, when we pass it is in relation to
when we pass it is in relation to Brazil, when we think about aspirations
Brazil, when we think about aspirations that have other groups that are not
that have other groups that are not majoritarians to become majoritarians, the
majoritarians to become majoritarians, the I'll say any day now I'm going to cancel.
I'll say any day now I'm going to cancel. these judges who think they are
these judges who think they are independent. One of these days I'll go
independent. One of these days I'll go to annul the parliament. Any day now I
to annul the parliament. Any day now I I will be able to do anything that
I will be able to do anything that give me absolute power over
give me absolute power over this. And obviously, one is missing.
this. And obviously, one is missing. One flaw in democracy is that we
One flaw in democracy is that we we believed that it was inviolable, that
we believed that it was inviolable, that there was no way to go back in
there was no way to go back in democracy. And nowadays we are having
democracy. And nowadays we are having It's everyday lessons and several times over.
It's everyday lessons and several times over. day lessons to say attention, it's not quite
day lessons to say attention, it's not quite like this.
like this. Therefore, when I speak to you of these three
Therefore, when I speak to you of these three questions, I'm telling you that there are three
questions, I'm telling you that there are three major issues that influence the
major issues that influence the education and how it influences inclusion.
education and how it influences inclusion. Let's not just think that inclusion and
Let's not just think that inclusion and The schools here are closed, but they are
The schools here are closed, but they are Influenced by this big one, right? what
Influenced by this big one, right? what It has to do with what the market is, which has
It has to do with what the market is, which has It has to do with what identity is and it has to do with
It has to do with what identity is and it has to do with Let's see what the idea of democracy is all about.
Let's see what the idea of democracy is all about. It is in this context that human rights
It is in this context that human rights They develop. Human rights
They develop. Human rights They develop within this scenario and
They develop within this scenario and human rights, even though we think
human rights, even though we think which is a safe haven, they continue to have
which is a safe haven, they continue to have immense, immense, immense attacks,
immense, immense, immense attacks, Even at a conceptual level, right? Us
Even at a conceptual level, right? Us We could think that human rights
We could think that human rights It's more or less like a sacred book.
It's more or less like a sacred book. That no one attacks, isn't that right? You
That no one attacks, isn't that right? You human rights have been attacked by
human rights have been attacked by not being truly universal. THE
not being truly universal. THE People say: "Ah, that's a big
People say: "Ah, that's a big "Conversation." Human rights are not...
"Conversation." Human rights are not... They are not universal. If it really
They are not universal. If it really If they were human rights, they were
If they were human rights, they were Used all over the world. And we
Used all over the world. And we We are confusing here what rights are.
We are confusing here what rights are. humans with what the application of
humans with what the application of human rights. It's something else entirely. THE
human rights. It's something else entirely. THE The second question is that it is said: "But the
The second question is that it is said: "But the Human rights are a Western thing.
Human rights are a Western thing. "And Christian." The next day, I found it funny.
"And Christian." The next day, I found it funny. because in some countries it is said: "But
because in some countries it is said: "But What is this? something to consider that
What is this? something to consider that A man and a woman are equal. What
A man and a woman are equal. What and that? No, they're not. With all the
and that? No, they're not. With all the respect, that always has a part of
respect, that always has a part of Music, from the violin part, right? He has,
Music, from the violin part, right? He has, with all due respect, with all due respect
with all due respect, with all due respect With all due respect, they are fantastic, but
With all due respect, they are fantastic, but They're not, you see? Until
They're not, you see? Until biologically, even biologically not
biologically, even biologically not They are, but it's not the same thing. even if
They are, but it's not the same thing. even if to think about our history and our
to think about our history and our tradition. And we keep going like this,
tradition. And we keep going like this, jumping from one thing to another
jumping from one thing to another saying that it's only Westerners and
saying that it's only Westerners and It's Christians who have this obsession with
It's Christians who have this obsession with human rights. This has been a
human rights. This has been a systematic attack on human rights
systematic attack on human rights also. And there's also a very noticeable attack.
also. And there's also a very noticeable attack. It's interesting that it says: "The rights
It's interesting that it says: "The rights Humans, ah, [laughs] that's a good one.
Humans, ah, [laughs] that's a good one. Ideally, do you know who's interested?
Ideally, do you know who's interested? For human rights? They are the bandits.
For human rights? They are the bandits. The bandits are the people who...
The bandits are the people who... They are more interested in human rights.
They are more interested in human rights. When a person does one, they go right away, the
When a person does one, they go right away, the my human rights right to a
my human rights right to a phone call to my lawyer, no
phone call to my lawyer, no the law. The person suddenly remembers.
the law. The person suddenly remembers. of human rights. This is also a
of human rights. This is also a Slander regarding human rights. It is a
Slander regarding human rights. It is a slander regarding human rights,
slander regarding human rights, saying that human rights is
saying that human rights is conversation about forgiving people
conversation about forgiving people offenders, people who are not
offenders, people who are not using language that you
using language that you They know them, but they're not good people. there is
They know them, but they're not good people. there is good people and people who are too bad or
good people and people who are too bad or less and the evil people and and the
less and the evil people and and the human rights would only serve to
human rights would only serve to People who are evil people.
People who are evil people. However, we have seen that after
However, we have seen that after 77 years old, human rights
77 years old, human rights continue to constitute a
continue to constitute a important hope. They gave instructions.
important hope. They gave instructions. demands of peoples all over
demands of peoples all over world. That is, these claims
world. That is, these claims They end up relying on each other, they end up having
They end up relying on each other, they end up having how tutors of the ideas of rights
how tutors of the ideas of rights humans. They inspired advances in areas
humans. They inspired advances in areas political and social. in people with
political and social. in people with disability, for example, by
disability, for example, by Convention on the Rights of Persons
Convention on the Rights of Persons with a disability from 2007
with a disability from 2007 It draws directly from the Universal Declaration.
It draws directly from the Universal Declaration. of Human Rights. The opposition
of Human Rights. The opposition politics, feminism, LGBT rights
politics, feminism, LGBT rights plus immigrant populations, minorities
plus immigrant populations, minorities ethically, all these populations ended up
ethically, all these populations ended up by benefiting from this fundamental idea,
by benefiting from this fundamental idea, this tutorial idea of the systems of
this tutorial idea of the systems of human rights. And obviously the
human rights. And obviously the rights ended up asserting themselves as
rights ended up asserting themselves as diffuse and unavailable. Uh, when we
diffuse and unavailable. Uh, when we We say that human rights are
We say that human rights are By diffuse, we mean that the rights
By diffuse, we mean that the rights Humans are spread throughout the
Humans are spread throughout the people. We all have human rights.
people. We all have human rights. There are no people who have more, nor less.
There are no people who have more, nor less. Human rights don't deserve each other.
Human rights don't deserve each other. Contrary to what, for example, the
Contrary to what, for example, the The far right and neoliberalism, the
The far right and neoliberalism, the People, yes, there are people, the rights
People, yes, there are people, the rights Humans are great, but it's necessary
Humans are great, but it's necessary to deserve them. It's almost as if it were a
to deserve them. It's almost as if it were a race when you get there at the end. I
race when you get there at the end. I I end up running and saying: "Me, after all, me
I end up running and saying: "Me, after all, me "I deserved human rights." Did I deserve them?
"I deserved human rights." Did I deserve them? Oh, that's great. I ran a lot, but I deserved it.
Oh, that's great. I ran a lot, but I deserved it. human rights. Human rights
human rights. Human rights They are not a merit because they are
They are not a merit because they are diffuse, they are spread throughout the
diffuse, they are spread throughout the people and these are rights that are
people and these are rights that are unavailable in the sense that I don't
unavailable in the sense that I don't I can dispose of the human rights of
I can dispose of the human rights of Others might say: "Look, there you go, today."
Others might say: "Look, there you go, today." You lose that right, but look, it's just that...
You lose that right, but look, it's just that... this week. Then on to
this week. Then on to We'll gather some capsules this week and... what if...
We'll gather some capsules this week and... what if... Gather the 10 capsules for the week.
Gather the 10 capsules for the week. you regain that human right. I am not
you regain that human right. I am not I can dispose of the human rights of
I can dispose of the human rights of others. And more interestingly, I don't
others. And more interestingly, I don't I can exercise my human rights.
I can exercise my human rights. I cannot offer it. I can't tell you
I cannot offer it. I can't tell you My boss, I am now...
My boss, I am now... Retired? No, I don't say that anymore.
Retired? No, I don't say that anymore. But I couldn't tell my boss,
But I couldn't tell my boss, Look, you know, I even work for free.
Look, you know, I even work for free. he knows? I don't need you to pay me. No
he knows? I don't need you to pay me. No necessary. Even for me, it's an insult.
necessary. Even for me, it's an insult. Pay me. I work for free. I am
Pay me. I work for free. I am that. But you are not entitled to
that. But you are not entitled to Receive the salary? I have it, but I'm giving it up.
Receive the salary? I have it, but I'm giving it up. from him. I cannot give up mine.
from him. I cannot give up mine. human rights, and even less so to do with
human rights, and even less so to do with that other people give up theirs
that other people give up theirs human rights.
human rights. and human rights and education.
and human rights and education. First of all, I wanted to emphasize again
First of all, I wanted to emphasize again that education is permeable to everything
that education is permeable to everything this complexity that we talked about until
this complexity that we talked about until Now, the complexity of capitalism, the
Now, the complexity of capitalism, the capacity for identity, the capacity
capacity for identity, the capacity This gives us the complexity of what democracy is.
This gives us the complexity of what democracy is. and the inherent complexity of this debate
and the inherent complexity of this debate that exists within human rights. Eh, eh,
that exists within human rights. Eh, eh, and education has been influenced by
and education has been influenced by This whole situation. But let's see that
This whole situation. But let's see that educational changes were influenced
educational changes were influenced through these debates. That is, how is it that
through these debates. That is, how is it that these debates have reached education and how
these debates have reached education and how That's what we're looking at today. In
That's what we're looking at today. In first of all, this perspective of
first of all, this perspective of The capitalist market, how does it work?
The capitalist market, how does it work? It influenced education and how we...
It influenced education and how we... Are we thinking about this today? We are
Are we thinking about this today? We are thinking the opposite, contrary to
thinking the opposite, contrary to what would the market tell us, that only a few are
what would the market tell us, that only a few are that they deserve, we could also think only
that they deserve, we could also think only that some deserve human rights,
that some deserve human rights, There are also some who deserve it.
There are also some who deserve it. education. So, it's not, it's not difficult.
education. So, it's not, it's not difficult. You have to do the rule of three, right? If some
You have to do the rule of three, right? If some They deserve human rights, therefore they also
They deserve human rights, therefore they also There are some who deserve an education. And the
There are some who deserve an education. And the what does UNESCO tell us in the declaration of
what does UNESCO tell us in the declaration of Inion? It says: "All students matter and
Inion? It says: "All students matter and They matter the same. They matter the same.
They matter the same. They matter the same. Even those who misbehave,
Even those who misbehave, even those ill-mannered ones who called,
even those ill-mannered ones who called, They insulted the teacher's mother.
They insulted the teacher's mother. These people deserve the same as the others.
These people deserve the same as the others. Yes, they deserve the same as everyone else.
Yes, they deserve the same as everyone else. Because once again, education is not a
Because once again, education is not a It's not a matter of merit.
It's not a matter of merit. that it is only a possibility of
that it is only a possibility of I have anything for which I
I have anything for which I I contributed. Second, the investment in
I contributed. Second, the investment in Education is recognized as fundamental.
Education is recognized as fundamental. in terms of public policy. He wants
in terms of public policy. He wants That is to say, we cannot say it like this: "Yes, the
That is to say, we cannot say it like this: "Yes, the Investment in education is only for
Investment in education is only for some countries, only for certain areas,
some countries, only for certain areas, no. Investing in education as a whole is
no. Investing in education as a whole is recognized, which is a question of whether
recognized, which is a question of whether They think very much against this perspective.
They think very much against this perspective. of the market. If we were in a
of the market. If we were in a From a strictly market perspective, the
From a strictly market perspective, the What we would say is that it is necessary
What we would say is that it is necessary fund only the sectors that are
fund only the sectors that are strategic, only the students who have the
strategic, only the students who have the future, only entrepreneurship, only the
future, only entrepreneurship, only the digital technologies, everything that
digital technologies, everything that It sells well. So that's what was needed.
It sells well. So that's what was needed. finance. We know today that
finance. We know today that no,
no, but I've only just started [laughs]
but I've only just started [laughs] It's 5 minutes and still on the subject of the market.
It's 5 minutes and still on the subject of the market. Creating scholarships of excellence is not enough. THE
Creating scholarships of excellence is not enough. THE True excellence is the way in which...
True excellence is the way in which... The most vulnerable students are given treatment.
The most vulnerable students are given treatment. I would like to, since I have 5 minutes,
I would like to, since I have 5 minutes, that this thing might stay perhaps okay
that this thing might stay perhaps okay Highlighted, isn't it?
Highlighted, isn't it? excellence. We have to have one
excellence. We have to have one a different perspective on what is
a different perspective on what is excellence. Excellence for a long time
excellence. Excellence for a long time time was the excellence of some in
time was the excellence of some in some situations, in some places. AND
some situations, in some places. AND nowadays we think that
nowadays we think that Excellence is how students
Excellence is how students Vulnerable people are being treated. Any country
Vulnerable people are being treated. Any country of the world, even the poorest countries,
of the world, even the poorest countries, are able to create pockets of
are able to create pockets of excellence. Everyone is capable of
excellence. Everyone is capable of do that. If you come to the country more
do that. If you come to the country more Poor world, you'll see schools in
Poor world, you'll see schools in that the boys are all in uniform
that the boys are all in uniform with the King's College curriculum and
with the King's College curriculum and All fantastic.
All fantastic. That's not the question; the question is where are they?
That's not the question; the question is where are they? the others in this country, in these other countries
the others in this country, in these other countries Poor? Where are the others? And the
Poor? Where are the others? And the The first question is this: how do we
The first question is this: how do we Do we treat the most vulnerable students? If
Do we treat the most vulnerable students? If If you have time, read a book that...
If you have time, read a book that... I loved reading it, which is about the tyranny of merit.
I loved reading it, which is about the tyranny of merit. by Michael Sandle. Hey, look, here it is
by Michael Sandle. Hey, look, here it is Meritocracy. Look, are you seeing the
Meritocracy. Look, are you seeing the Meritocracy?
Meritocracy? The famous meritocracy. Can you see?
The famous meritocracy. Can you see? that man who is over there
that man who is over there berm? He's saying: "Wow, that's great!"
berm? He's saying: "Wow, that's great!" cyclist! Which one are you talking about?
cyclist! Which one are you talking about? Which cyclist is he talking about?
Which cyclist is he talking about? What a great cyclist! Bravo! Excellent. He
What a great cyclist! Bravo! Excellent. He He's talking about the cyclist who carries the
He's talking about the cyclist who carries the Bananas or the other one?
Bananas or the other one? Who is the great cyclist here?
Who is the great cyclist here? On the merits? Who is the great cyclist?
Identity also gave rise to changes. important in education and inclusion.
important in education and inclusion. First and foremost, it is this recognition
First and foremost, it is this recognition Diversity is not something exclusive to a few. I
Diversity is not something exclusive to a few. I I often tell this story that there is
I often tell this story that there is many years the Globenquiana Foundation
many years the Globenquiana Foundation edited a book called The Child
edited a book called The Child different. It was a book that was...
different. It was a book that was... very important at the time. The child
very important at the time. The child different. Who was the different child?
different. Who was the different child? They were the boys with difficulties and with
They were the boys with difficulties and with deficiency. Es é que era os
deficiency. Es é que era os different, because the others weren't.
different, because the others weren't. different, they didn't have a certificate of being
different, they didn't have a certificate of being different. Nowadays, we know that
different. Nowadays, we know that This is not true. We know that
This is not true. We know that Diversity is inherent to human beings and is
Diversity is inherent to human beings and is positive. That would be a whole other conversation.
positive. That would be a whole other conversation. the acceptance of all diversity in
the acceptance of all diversity in school, the question, that difference that
school, the question, that difference that There is a difference between integration and inclusion.
There is a difference between integration and inclusion. fundamental. It still is today.
fundamental. It still is today. It's important that we talk about this. How is that
It's important that we talk about this. How is that How did we get confused?
How did we get confused? Systematically, what does it mean to be integrated?
Systematically, what does it mean to be integrated? what to include. Integrated into
what to include. Integrated into In that sense, I even... uh... uh, the integrated one...
In that sense, I even... uh... uh, the integrated one... I think it even makes a noise. I think if
I think it even makes a noise. I think if we do part of the sound design
we do part of the sound design It works better. Here we have the school and the
It works better. Here we have the school and the The person who is going to integrate comes here.
The person who is going to integrate comes here. That's how it is, and that's how it's done.
That's how it is, and that's how it's done. He was the one who integrated, I don't know if
He was the one who integrated, I don't know if Did you notice when it made this noise here?
Did you notice when it made this noise here? He was the one who integrated.
That's great. The school hasn't changed at all. THE The person, when they integrated, even did...
The person, when they integrated, even did... snapping sound.
snapping sound. This is the perspective of integration. In
This is the perspective of integration. In From an inclusion perspective, we also
From an inclusion perspective, we also We would like it to make noise, but no.
We would like it to make noise, but no. It makes such a fantastic noise.
It makes such a fantastic noise. like this one. Why? Because we want to
like this one. Why? Because we want to not only that the person moves,
not only that the person moves, but also the structure that receives it.
but also the structure that receives it. move. And when these two structures
move. And when these two structures They are moving, it's harder to find.
They are moving, it's harder to find. this fitting of
this fitting of less. And that's why it's more difficult to
less. And that's why it's more difficult to inclusion rather than integration. Because in
inclusion rather than integration. Because in integration, obviously, we were at
integration, obviously, we were at waiting to find out if the person is capable or
waiting to find out if the person is capable or He is not capable. Look, you did it!
He is not capable. Look, you did it! I can't integrate that, poor thing. So it is.
I can't integrate that, poor thing. So it is. Look, you have to go back, right?
Look, you have to go back, right? Yes, it happens. Don't do it
Yes, it happens. Don't do it worse
worse the school's effort to respect everyone
the school's effort to respect everyone the starting points, etc. Uh, about the,
the starting points, etc. Uh, about the, Never mind, it would end here, maybe.
Never mind, it would end here, maybe. It would only end after the last one.
It would only end after the last one. slide. Well, promoting education...
slide. Well, promoting education... of democracy from the perspective of
of democracy from the perspective of valuing the students' voice, the voice of
valuing the students' voice, the voice of students. of the National Council
students. of the National Council Education, here we have our
Education, here we have our president, Professor Domingues
president, Professor Domingues Fernandes edited several recommendations.
Fernandes edited several recommendations. I'm going to tell you about the students' voices.
I'm going to tell you about the students' voices. These are very good recommendations.
These are very good recommendations. intentional, but stemming from
intentional, but stemming from very difficult realities and sometimes
very difficult realities and sometimes very disappointing. That means that we
very disappointing. That means that we We listen to the students a lot, but we listen...
We listen to the students a lot, but we listen... They say very little. That is,
They say very little. That is, we take very little forward with what
we take very little forward with what They say. That is, even in education.
They say. That is, even in education. superior, which we will discuss next,
superior, which we will discuss next, In higher education, we see that we
In higher education, we see that we We listen to the students, but it's not always the case.
We listen to the students, but it's not always the case. we almost never truly take into account
we almost never truly take into account Tell them what they say. This is a
Tell them what they say. This is a The question of democracy in relation to education.
The question of democracy in relation to education. How can we promote a
How can we promote a true democracy within
true democracy within education? This alone would be a seminar. I
education? This alone would be a seminar. I I'm really running out of time. Ah, I'll go.
I'm really running out of time. Ah, I'll go. I read you this phrase by Maria Montessori
I read you this phrase by Maria Montessori It also says: "Everyone talks
It also says: "Everyone talks about peace.
about peace. But no one teaches peace. It's funny, it is
But no one teaches peace. It's funny, it is as if peace were a content that we
as if peace were a content that we We learn in a transcendent way.
We learn in a transcendent way. and metaphysics.
and metaphysics. No one teaches peace in this world. Yeah, us
No one teaches peace in this world. Yeah, us We are educated for competition and...
We are educated for competition and... Competition is the principle of all...
Competition is the principle of all... wars. Competition is the principle of
wars. Competition is the principle of all wars.
all wars. When we educate ourselves for the
When we educate ourselves for the cooperation and offering to others
cooperation and offering to others solidarity, so that's going to be the day
solidarity, so that's going to be the day in what are we educating ourselves for?
in what are we educating ourselves for? peace.
peace. Well, that makes five.
Well, that makes five. Levers, but how will there be a fifth?
Levers, but how will there be a fifth? seminar on human rights, I
seminar on human rights, I I will present the second part of my
I will present the second part of my conference next, on the fifth
conference next, on the fifth seminar. Eh,
And that's it, it would end with just that, maybe. telling you again that inclusion is the
telling you again that inclusion is the That's a problem, isn't it? Ah, inclusion is a
That's a problem, isn't it? Ah, inclusion is a It's a problem, but I wanted to tell you, we heard.
It's a problem, but I wanted to tell you, we heard. It is often said that inclusion is a
It is often said that inclusion is a problem.
problem. And how can we promote the
And how can we promote the equity, diversity and democracy,
equity, diversity and democracy, those three things that we talked about in
those three things that we talked about in schools, without being through values and
schools, without being through values and inclusive practices. I think we
inclusive practices. I think we we are systematically confusing the
we are systematically confusing the disease with the remedy. Inclusion and
disease with the remedy. Inclusion and Education is the best remedy that
Education is the best remedy that we know how to fight against the
we know how to fight against the true diseases, which are the
true diseases, which are the inequality, lack of identity and
inequality, lack of identity and the system that we have.
the system that we have. Finally, I'd like to end with just one.
Finally, I'd like to end with just one. This image is to tell you that we are...
This image is to tell you that we are... always very, very confronted with the
always very, very confronted with the power that the sectors have today
power that the sectors have today The far right and neoliberal sectors
The far right and neoliberal sectors to attack the values that we have always
to attack the values that we have always we considered those to be the most
we considered those to be the most important aspects of our lives. Oh, Saint
important aspects of our lives. Oh, Saint Augustine. They once asked the Saint
Augustine. They once asked the Saint Augustine, where was virtue?
Augustine, where was virtue? And Saint Augustine was left thinking and
And Saint Augustine was left thinking and The person who asked him said, "But it is
The person who asked him said, "But it is Obviously, I already know what you're asking me.
Obviously, I already know what you're asking me. will respond. Virtue lies in the middle.
will respond. Virtue lies in the middle. it is not? Virtue lies in the middle, it lies in
it is not? Virtue lies in the middle, it lies in virtue. Virtue lies in the middle. And the
virtue. Virtue lies in the middle. And the Saint Augustine thought and thought and said:
Saint Augustine thought and thought and said: "No, virtue is not in the middle."
"No, virtue is not in the middle." Virtue lies at the extreme that opposes it.
Virtue lies at the extreme that opposes it. sin."
sin." Interesting, isn't it? Why do we
Interesting, isn't it? Why do we We have this idea that virtue has to
We have this idea that virtue has to being in the middle when many times
being in the middle when many times we value perspectives so much that
we value perspectives so much that They are xenophobic, they are racist, they are
They are xenophobic, they are racist, they are the perspectives that most undermine
the perspectives that most undermine education and we value it as much as
education and we value it as much as the values that we have held for so many years
the values that we have held for so many years we develop in our societies.
we develop in our societies. Virtue does not lie in the middle. virtue lies
Virtue does not lie in the middle. virtue lies on the side that opposes all of these
on the side that opposes all of these perspectives that undermine, that poison the
perspectives that undermine, that poison the our education. When we see the size
our education. When we see the size of the wave, sometimes we get too
of the wave, sometimes we get too discouraged. We say: "It's true, the
discouraged. We say: "It's true, the People have to fight, but the wave is too much.
People have to fight, but the wave is too much. "Big". When the wave is big.
"Big". When the wave is big. Otherwise, bring a ladder.
Otherwise, bring a ladder. Good afternoon.
Good afternoon. [applause]
Thank you, Professor David Rodrigues. Despite being late, no
Despite being late, no I don't know if anyone has any questions for
I don't know if anyone has any questions for To do something, it has to be brief: a question or
To do something, it has to be brief: a question or a comment
a comment whatever you want to do to Professor David
whatever you want to do to Professor David Rodrigues.
Rodrigues. Radio,
Radio, de reg da regim, enquanto estamos aqui,
de reg da regim, enquanto estamos aqui, Could you please add the last slide?
Could you please add the last slide? Thanks.
There is a question. I had arranged with three people to ask questions.
three people to ask questions. [laughter]
[laughter] They are failing to keep their word.
They are failing to keep their word. Hey, Felisberto is my name, I'm a student.
Hey, Felisberto is my name, I'm a student. PhD in Education. My
PhD in Education. My The question is this, Professor David.
The question is this, Professor David. Rodrigues, according to his statement and
Rodrigues, according to his statement and starting from the premises and the
starting from the premises and the market, identities and
market, identities and of democracy,
of democracy, of democracy,
of democracy, hh and essentially based on the
hh and essentially based on the market,
market, given the logic of capitalism and
given the logic of capitalism and competition and pseudo-meritocracy,
competition and pseudo-meritocracy, as Michael Sandel rightly says,
as Michael Sandel rightly says, thinks capitalism
thinks capitalism a base
a base ideological, philosophical, if you will,
ideological, philosophical, if you will, to actually establish a
to actually establish a inclusive education
inclusive education or
or What alternatives do you suggest?
What alternatives do you suggest? Sure, sure,
Sure, sure, because I understand that in this logic of
because I understand that in this logic of competition
competition We're not going there.
We're not going there. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Anyone else? Then Professor David
Anyone else? Then Professor David He answered them all. Does anyone else have
He answered them all. Does anyone else have Any questions? I think like
Any questions? I think like We're running out of time, perhaps.
We're running out of time, perhaps. We'd go with this one. Look, and yours
We'd go with this one. Look, and yours The question is excellent and I think that
The question is excellent and I think that We could do a seminar on this.
We could do a seminar on this. Who is getting ready to meet a
Who is getting ready to meet a solution? It is not? The truth is, let's
solution? It is not? The truth is, let's Look, we've been here for a long time.
Look, we've been here for a long time. aware of the dangers of capitalism,
aware of the dangers of capitalism, it is not? Not only through the socialists
it is not? Not only through the socialists Utopians, then the so-called socialists,
Utopians, then the so-called socialists, Scientific socialism, right? searched
Scientific socialism, right? searched create an alternative route. And in this
create an alternative route. And in this At that moment we thought that our
At that moment we thought that our a great alternative to fight against
a great alternative to fight against this capitalism that creates all these
this capitalism that creates all these The issues were creation and the
The issues were creation and the development of the welfare state. Think
development of the welfare state. Think in a social state and is above all a
in a social state and is above all a an issue that has developed significantly in
an issue that has developed significantly in Europe, it is not about creating structures
Europe, it is not about creating structures strong structures that
strong structures that In a way, they boycotted this logic.
In a way, they boycotted this logic. capitalist, giving, uh, giving perspectives
capitalist, giving, uh, giving perspectives equity, perspectives on democracy
equity, perspectives on democracy for everyone, etc. Right now,
for everyone, etc. Right now, Honestly, we're a little bit...
Honestly, we're a little bit... perplexed about this, because the
perplexed about this, because the The far right, neoliberalism, has
The far right, neoliberalism, has attacked exactly what we
attacked exactly what we We considered it to be our best.
We considered it to be our best. The shot is to attack capitalism and the
The shot is to attack capitalism and the capitalism and capitalism itself
capitalism and capitalism itself form of creating inequality, etc.
form of creating inequality, etc. Therefore, the best answer I can give you
Therefore, the best answer I can give you I can give, even if it's not a
I can give, even if it's not a enthusiastic response from tomorrows that
enthusiastic response from tomorrows that they sing,
they sing, even though it's not an answer
even though it's not an answer enthusiastic, that is to say, we have to
enthusiastic, that is to say, we have to to continue fighting, we have to continue to
to continue fighting, we have to continue to to fight, to resist, and to say that we
to fight, to resist, and to say that we we can, without a doubt, and mitigate it by
we can, without a doubt, and mitigate it by minus the effects of the market through
minus the effects of the market through creation of large education systems,
creation of large education systems, of good health systems, of good
of good health systems, of good systems that have to do with
systems that have to do with democracy.
democracy. issues related to protection
issues related to protection from the citizens' perspective on this. I think
from the citizens' perspective on this. I think which at this moment is the best hope
which at this moment is the best hope that we have. It is a hope that,
that we have. It is a hope that, Interestingly, and it is a greater hope
Interestingly, and it is a greater hope difficult in the sense that the extreme
difficult in the sense that the extreme The intelligent right realized that was it.
The intelligent right realized that was it. that I really had to act. That is, it was
that I really had to act. That is, it was in these foundations of the welfare state that
in these foundations of the welfare state that It was necessary to attack. And that's why we
It was necessary to attack. And that's why we we realize that every time we
we realize that every time we we are trying to raise something that
we are trying to raise something that boycott is this capitalist logic of
boycott is this capitalist logic of better and of inequality, we
better and of inequality, we We found that this is exactly where...
We found that this is exactly where... attacks. And finally, that's where
attacks. And finally, that's where We have to attack. attack in
We have to attack. attack in The perspective of promoting education is
The perspective of promoting education is that she be a citizen, an education that is
that she be a citizen, an education that is supportive, conscious,
supportive, conscious, of knowledge and not simply a
of knowledge and not simply a Follow-up education and the Quiz
Follow-up education and the Quiz Masters Voice, what the boss says. OK.
Masters Voice, what the boss says. OK. Thanks.
Thanks. [applause]
We now have another round table discussion about Inclusive education, right?
Good morning to everyone. They are present here.
They are present here. My name is Luzia Lima Rodrigues.
My name is Luzia Lima Rodrigues. I am here at Lusófona University,
I am here at Lusófona University, director of the master's program in
director of the master's program in OK, in special education and
OK, in special education and postgraduate studies in special education and
postgraduate studies in special education and inclusive education. And it falls to me here then.
inclusive education. And it falls to me here then. the fabulous role,
the fabulous role, to be accompanied by these people so
to be accompanied by these people so interesting things that I love to learn and
interesting things that I love to learn and to be questioned by them. We're going to...
to be questioned by them. We're going to... then listen to Professor Domingos
then listen to Professor Domingos Fernandes on curriculum, pedagogy and
Fernandes on curriculum, pedagogy and evaluation, perspectives for the
evaluation, perspectives for the diversity and inclusion, which I
diversity and inclusion, which I I'll now talk about yours.
I'll now talk about yours. No, it's not the last one. I'm just starting out, I
No, it's not the last one. I'm just starting out, I Okay, I'm reversing things.
Okay, I'm reversing things. starting from the opposite side.
starting from the opposite side. I always like to do something.
I always like to do something. different. So, Professor Domingos,
different. So, Professor Domingos, I'll introduce them to the three of them first and
I'll introduce them to the three of them first and Then we'll pass the word to the three of them, okay?
Then we'll pass the word to the three of them, okay? good? Professor Domingos, uh, he is
good? Professor Domingos, uh, he is president of the National Council of
president of the National Council of Education, elected by the Assembly of
Education, elected by the Assembly of Republic since July 9, 2022. It is
Republic since July 9, 2022. It is retired full professor at the School
retired full professor at the School Superior of the School of Sociology and
Superior of the School of Sociology and ISQITEC's Public Policies, which is the
ISQITEC's Public Policies, which is the our University Institute of Lisbon,
our University Institute of Lisbon, and researcher at the Research Center
and researcher at the Research Center and Sociology Studies.
and Sociology Studies. coordinated programs over the course of 17 years.
coordinated programs over the course of 17 years. master's and doctoral degrees in
master's and doctoral degrees in specialization in educational assessment
specialization in educational assessment at the University of Lisbon. AND
at the University of Lisbon. AND principal investigator of projects of
principal investigator of projects of investigation and evaluation
investigation and evaluation national and international and is the sole author
national and international and is the sole author out of 200 publications and only 300
out of 200 publications and only 300 national and international communications
national and international communications I was the only one who added it, because when
I was the only one who added it, because when When we see a resume like that, we're like...
When we see a resume like that, we're like... Always impressed.
Always impressed. And then I'll introduce Professor Lília.
And then I'll introduce Professor Lília. Pires, Lília Guardenteiro Pires, who
Pires, Lília Guardenteiro Pires, who It's here to my right too, it is
It's here to my right too, it is licensed in Service by the Institute of
licensed in Service by the Institute of Social Service in Lisbon and Master's degree in
Social Service in Lisbon and Master's degree in special education by the Faculty of
special education by the Faculty of Human Motor Skills Department of the University of
Human Motor Skills Department of the University of Lisbon. Uh, it performs the functions of
Lisbon. Uh, it performs the functions of coordinator of the guidance center
coordinator of the guidance center career and student support
career and student support Faculty of Arts of the University of
Faculty of Arts of the University of Lisbon. is a founding member of the group of
Lisbon. is a founding member of the group of work to support the student with
work to support the student with deficiency in higher education, having
deficiency in higher education, having done as part of the coordination during
done as part of the coordination during For several years, from 2021 to 2023, he was part of the
For several years, from 2021 to 2023, he was part of the European project Unite University Network
European project Unite University Network for Innovation Technology and
for Innovation Technology and Engineering, uh, from 2022 to January of
Engineering, uh, from 2022 to January of 2025, eh, Inclusion Diversity
Professor Lia, we're staying here too, eh? I'm pleased to welcome you. Professor Lília
I'm pleased to welcome you. Professor Lília So you're going to talk about higher education then.
So you're going to talk about higher education then. inclusive, a process of reflections from 37
inclusive, a process of reflections from 37 years of practice. It doesn't seem like anything, because
years of practice. It doesn't seem like anything, because no?
no? It doesn't look like anything. Professor David
It doesn't look like anything. Professor David Rodrigues, who has already been introduced by
Rodrigues, who has already been introduced by Professor Margarida. I'll go then, uh
Professor Margarida. I'll go then, uh so that you don't end up without presenting
so that you don't end up without presenting Nothing, I'll say a few things that...
Nothing, I'll say a few things that... They were said. Moreover, his conference
They were said. Moreover, his conference now, his participation in this
now, his participation in this A round table is also for eh eh
A round table is also for eh eh to explain things that weren't
to explain things that weren't explained at the conference. Therefore,
explained at the conference. Therefore, Now you have the chance to say others.
Now you have the chance to say others. things. Professor David Rodrigues,
things. Professor David Rodrigues, day before yesterday
day before yesterday he received the communication that by
he received the communication that by Faculty of Human Movement
Faculty of Human Movement 20 notable people who were considered
20 notable people who were considered by the University of Lisbon. So, to
by the University of Lisbon. So, to alongside people like Professor Manuel
alongside people like Professor Manuel Sérgio Vieira e Cunha, people like
Sérgio Vieira e Cunha, people like Mourinho, right? Our coach, he's...
Mourinho, right? Our coach, he's... Professor David Rodrigues also
Professor David Rodrigues also will be featured as one of the 20 notable figures of
will be featured as one of the 20 notable figures of University of Lisbon. It's the professor.
University of Lisbon. It's the professor. David Rodrigues as well, the teacher
David Rodrigues as well, the teacher Margarida forgot to mention, he is
Margarida forgot to mention, he is father of the most beautiful 20-year-old girl in
father of the most beautiful 20-year-old girl in He is the grandfather of the world's ugliest dog.
He is the grandfather of the world's ugliest dog. also. He is a poet, he is a musician, and he has a
also. He is a poet, he is a musician, and he has a a series of other virtues. Uh, the
a series of other virtues. Uh, the Professor David Rodrigues will speak.
Professor David Rodrigues will speak. about inclusive education, write
about inclusive education, write Rights achieved through crooked paths. And let's go
Rights achieved through crooked paths. And let's go So let's start with Professor David.
So let's start with Professor David. Rodrigues. Thank you very much.
Very, Good morning. I already saw you today.
Good morning. I already saw you today. Eh, [laughs]
Eh, [laughs] Good morning. I wanted to greet you, in
Good morning. I wanted to greet you, in First of all, my tablemates.
First of all, my tablemates. Well, it goes without saying that they have a
Well, it goes without saying that they have a great respect for each of them.
great respect for each of them. Uh, and h, and I wanted, I wanted maybe, eh
Uh, and h, and I wanted, I wanted maybe, eh to explain the title Writing a little
to explain the title Writing a little Rights achieved through crooked paths. When I
Rights achieved through crooked paths. When I I was coming here this morning,
I was coming here this morning, I passed in front of the avenue of
I passed in front of the avenue of university.
university. On the university avenue there is a
On the university avenue there is a red sculpture, I don't know if it already
red sculpture, I don't know if it already Did you notice, there's a red sculpture of
Did you notice, there's a red sculpture of Charter de Almeida.
Charter de Almeida. And it is, and it is very interesting that that
And it is, and it is very interesting that that sculpture, I'm not going to talk about the...
sculpture, I'm not going to talk about the... The history of sculpture is a little bit like that.
The history of sculpture is a little bit like that. different from the one I'm going to pull, but the
different from the one I'm going to pull, but the The history of that sculpture tells us a lot.
The history of that sculpture tells us a lot. the idea of what entry into
the idea of what entry into university. We are at the entrance to
university. We are at the entrance to University avenue and we have an arch,
University avenue and we have an arch, other different arcs, a circle. AND
other different arcs, a circle. AND I was thinking, look, here's a
I was thinking, look, here's a Great parable about what it is that we
Great parable about what it is that we We consider today that it is the entry into
We consider today that it is the entry into university. I was comparing it to
university. I was comparing it to which was the entrance to the University of
which was the entrance to the University of Coimbra, in the Middle Ages, where there was the
Coimbra, in the Middle Ages, where there was the iron gate. The iron gate was a
iron gate. The iron gate was a The university door that he entered opened
The university door that he entered opened in the morning at 9 o'clock, I don't know what time.
in the morning at 9 o'clock, I don't know what time. It opened, but it opened the university and then...
It opened, but it opened the university and then... He closed the door. I was thinking that
He closed the door. I was thinking that difference that exists between the iron gate
difference that exists between the iron gate and the sculpture of the charts of Almeida
and the sculpture of the charts of Almeida here at the entrance to the University of
here at the entrance to the University of Lisbon. This is a first parable.
Lisbon. This is a first parable. about how we view access today
about how we view access today to the university. Not a single access point, one
to the university. Not a single access point, one an access that opens and closes, but an access
an access that opens and closes, but an access which has various forms, which includes,
which has various forms, which includes, which cherishes various ways of entering into
which cherishes various ways of entering into university.
university. It's not just square people who enter.
It's not just square people who enter. square universities. I'm only talking.
square universities. I'm only talking. In various forms, isn't it? Not just the squares,
In various forms, isn't it? Not just the squares, but the rectangular ones, the circular ones, the
but the rectangular ones, the circular ones, the hexagonal, pentagonal. Everyone
hexagonal, pentagonal. Everyone can enter university, according to us
can enter university, according to us teaches the sculpture of Chartas de
teaches the sculpture of Chartas de Almeida.
Almeida. A second issue is that I think...
A second issue is that I think... That's when we think about university.
That's when we think about university. Today, we are thinking about improving...
Today, we are thinking about improving... pedagogy.
pedagogy. Uh, in 1983,
Uh, in 1983, most of the audience wasn't even born yet.
most of the audience wasn't even born yet. still, but the problem is yours, the
still, but the problem is yours, the The problem is yours. But in 1983, I
The problem is yours. But in 1983, I I organized the first symposium called
I organized the first symposium called pedagogy at the university, in
pedagogy at the university, in University of Lisbon,
University of Lisbon, 1983. And you can't imagine the blow that...
1983. And you can't imagine the blow that... I took it. Everyone was saying pedagogy.
I took it. Everyone was saying pedagogy. at the university, but not at the university.
at the university, but not at the university. There is pedagogy. pedagogy for children
There is pedagogy. pedagogy for children They would even go looking for the root of the word.
They would even go looking for the root of the word. pedors in Greek means child, pedagogy.
pedors in Greek means child, pedagogy. For children. We at the university
For children. We at the university We lack pedagogy, we are not...
We lack pedagogy, we are not... of these. We are not like that. We in
of these. We are not like that. We in university we have knowledge,
university we have knowledge, We have transmission, we have
We have transmission, we have Responsibility, we have autonomy. Which
Responsibility, we have autonomy. Which any pedagogy,
any pedagogy, as time has shown that these people
as time has shown that these people They were mistaken, and how did we...
They were mistaken, and how did we... we are so focused today on
we are so focused today on importance of the pedagogy of
importance of the pedagogy of university, we think that what the
university, we think that what the The university can do better, isn't it?
The university can do better, isn't it? not only to produce knowledge, but also
not only to produce knowledge, but also find ways like it can
find ways like it can to mobilize people to understand
to mobilize people to understand this knowledge and to participate
this knowledge and to participate in this knowledge.
in this knowledge. And here I'll give you an example, an example.
And here I'll give you an example, an example. which was once told to me by a colleague.
which was once told to me by a colleague. mine is from a university that
mine is from a university that On the first day of classes, a blind student entered.
On the first day of classes, a blind student entered. Oh, the blind man entered the room, didn't he? And he
Oh, the blind man entered the room, didn't he? And he She gave a presentation lesson, but she was trembling.
She gave a presentation lesson, but she was trembling. He says: "My God, what could I possibly do to myself?"
He says: "My God, what could I possibly do to myself?" to happen? I already have so many problems,
to happen? I already have so many problems, I'm still going to get a blind guy on top of me.
I'm still going to get a blind guy on top of me. it is not? What's going to happen? Then
it is not? What's going to happen? Then He gave the introductory lecture and at the end
He gave the introductory lecture and at the end From the introductory class, the blind man came
From the introductory class, the blind man came talk to him to reassure him
talk to him to reassure him People with disabilities. Often
People with disabilities. Often you have to do this work of
you have to do this work of to reassure people who don't have
to reassure people who don't have deficiency. And he came to talk to the
deficiency. And he came to talk to the The professor said to him: "Look, professor,
The professor said to him: "Look, professor, Stay calm, stay calm. Yes, but how?
Stay calm, stay calm. Yes, but how? "So, how's it going to be?" Oh, professor, it is
"So, how's it going to be?" Oh, professor, it is very very easy. All I need is that
very very easy. All I need is that Professor, send me the PowerPoint that will...
Professor, send me the PowerPoint that will... spend two or three more days in class
spend two or three more days in class early. This can be resolved. And the
early. This can be resolved. And the The professor said: "It's up there, up there."
The professor said: "It's up there, up there." that. "Oh, that's great, wonderful." And it began to
that. "Oh, that's great, wonderful." And it began to To do this, he sent the PowerPoint to the
To do this, he sent the PowerPoint to the for the blind student and it remained
for the blind student and it remained amazed because despite being blind, he didn't
amazed because despite being blind, he didn't Looking at the PowerPoint, he would say: "This
Looking at the PowerPoint, he would say: "This That number in the graph is there,
That number in the graph is there, "This is fantastic." He said, "Look,
"This is fantastic." He said, "Look, Finally, this solved it. After two
Finally, this solved it. After two Weeks later, the coordinator of the class came.
Weeks later, the coordinator of the class came. He spoke to the teacher and said: "Oh
He spoke to the teacher and said: "Oh Professor, is it true that you are...
Professor, is it true that you are... Send the PowerPoint to our colleague.
Send the PowerPoint to our colleague. Blind?" Dis: "Yes, then why not?"
Blind?" Dis: "Yes, then why not?" "Send it to us too?"
This is an interesting idea about the Pedagogy at the university. How is it that
Pedagogy at the university. How is it that people who sometimes have these
people who sometimes have these difficulties that are so evident, so
difficulties that are so evident, so obvious, how can these people
obvious, how can these people to help improve pedagogy in
to help improve pedagogy in university? How does this teacher
university? How does this teacher he discovered that if he sent the PowerPoint
he discovered that if he sent the PowerPoint earlier for the students, certainly the
earlier for the students, certainly the Your classes could be better.
Your classes could be better. Therefore, when we think about
Therefore, when we think about writing rights with crooked lines, we
writing rights with crooked lines, we at the university we are traditionally
at the university we are traditionally with many crooked lines, with many
with many crooked lines, with many crooked lines. A very specific line that has the
crooked lines. A very specific line that has the to do with the transmission, which has to do with us
to do with the transmission, which has to do with us to think that students are
to think that students are absolutely inesurably autonomous.
absolutely inesurably autonomous. Neither we, let alone the students,
Neither we, let alone the students, We teachers, not even we are as much as we think.
We teachers, not even we are as much as we think. But the students, right? Why is that
But the students, right? Why is that Did we think that? And let's think about what it's like
Did we think that? And let's think about what it's like that in these crooked lines we can
that in these crooked lines we can to create rights. I mean, what is it that
to create rights. I mean, what is it that we can do it at the level of
we can do it at the level of university to protect students
university to protect students Which ones are more fragile?
Which ones are more fragile? And when we talk about more students
And when we talk about more students fragile, we're not just talking about students
fragile, we're not just talking about students with a disability. often they are even the
with a disability. often they are even the students with disabilities who end up
students with disabilities who end up because it has more support because it has more
because it has more support because it has more possibilities of saying: "Look, I have
possibilities of saying: "Look, I have I have a disability, I am entitled to this.
I have a disability, I am entitled to this. "right". But often there are students
"right". But often there are students invisible. I'm only going to talk about two or
invisible. I'm only going to talk about two or three. There are students, for example, who...
three. There are students, for example, who... Their native language is not Portuguese.
Their native language is not Portuguese. These students whose language
These students whose language mother tongue is not Portuguese, they have difficulties.
mother tongue is not Portuguese, they have difficulties. added, because in terms of what is a
added, because in terms of what is a more symbolic thought, a thought
more symbolic thought, a thought more elaborate, when we have to
more elaborate, when we have to compare concepts, when we have to
compare concepts, when we have to See and discover the differences, right?
See and discover the differences, right? between things that seem the same to us
between things that seem the same to us At first glance, these students have
At first glance, these students have increased difficulties.
increased difficulties. Therefore, we need to have a
Therefore, we need to have a particular attention to these
particular attention to these students. Another issue that is
students. Another issue that is The fundamental question is how we, in these situations,
The fundamental question is how we, in these situations, in these
in these straight lines, how do we give so
straight lines, how do we give so often given little importance to
often given little importance to mentoring and how we think that
mentoring and how we think that all the support that is given to the student has
all the support that is given to the student has Whatever comes from the teacher, it has to come from a
Whatever comes from the teacher, it has to come from a structure of the university administration, it has to come from
structure of the university administration, it has to come from Ministry of Education and it has to come
Ministry of Education and it has to come preference of any entity
preference of any entity a transcendent being that provides support. And we
a transcendent being that provides support. And we We say: "How can this happen?"
We say: "How can this happen?" "What if I don't have this support?" And many
"What if I don't have this support?" And many Sometimes we ignore that there is a lot of support available.
Sometimes we ignore that there is a lot of support available. who can be recruited, who can be
who can be recruited, who can be combined, which can be negotiated with
combined, which can be negotiated with People who are around the student.
People who are around the student. And that doesn't mean we are.
And that doesn't mean we are. to exploit other people, because
to exploit other people, because Fortunately, we know today that when
Fortunately, we know today that when If you teach, you also learn. When a
If you teach, you also learn. When a if the student is helping another
if the student is helping another student, he is also learning.
student, he is also learning. It can also be learned by teaching.
It can also be learned by teaching. And that's why I think it's very...
And that's why I think it's very... It's important for us to have this perspective, isn't it?
It's important for us to have this perspective, isn't it? only in relation to students with
only in relation to students with disability, but we think about
disability, but we think about any student who has a
any student who has a difficulty. All of us, all of us to
difficulty. All of us, all of us to Throughout our lives we face difficulties.
Throughout our lives we face difficulties. We often have emotional difficulties, many
We often have emotional difficulties, many Sometimes affective, social. Nobody loves
Sometimes affective, social. Nobody loves me. It's not when people say: "The
me. It's not when people say: "The My problem there is that nobody likes it.
My problem there is that nobody likes it. me. If I don't go looking for mine
me. If I don't go looking for mine "Friends, nobody's looking for me."
"Friends, nobody's looking for me." Welcome to the real world. Real world,
Welcome to the real world. Real world, it is not? And how do we look at
it is not? And how do we look at These difficulties? What is it that we
These difficulties? What is it that we What can we do to achieve this? Again,
What can we do to achieve this? Again, In conclusion, I think that our
In conclusion, I think that our The answer is inclusion.
The answer is inclusion. Our response is how do we...
Our response is how do we... We promote inclusion. Not only do we have
We promote inclusion. Not only do we have perspective of what support is that almost
perspective of what support is that almost which could be a type of support
which could be a type of support special education for a person who comes,
special education for a person who comes, an expert, one is also
an expert, one is also precise. as they are needed, but not
precise. as they are needed, but not To think only about that, to think that many times
To think only about that, to think that many times our greatest strength for inclusion, the
our greatest strength for inclusion, the our greatest strength is creating
our greatest strength is creating Rights in crooked lines is recruiting.
Rights in crooked lines is recruiting. the whole community to help the whole
the whole community to help the whole community, to truly create one
community, to truly create one inclusive self-help perspective, of
inclusive self-help perspective, of solidarity, of helping others in the sense
solidarity, of helping others in the sense of us being able to overcome some
of us being able to overcome some the difficulties.
the difficulties. Therefore, this would be to give a
Therefore, this would be to give a kick.
kick. Thank you very much. Thank you very much,
Thank you very much. Thank you very much, teacher. [applause]
I will now pass the word to our colleague. Lília Pires,
Lília Pires, that will pass there to the
that will pass there to the For the computer.
For the computer. No, no, I ended up not having it. Here it is
No, no, I ended up not having it. Here it is this assistant. Excellent. OK.
this assistant. Excellent. OK. Well, good morning to everyone. It's for
Well, good morning to everyone. It's for It is a great pleasure for me to return to this
It is a great pleasure for me to return to this home and being so well accompanied in this
home and being so well accompanied in this A table with my dear friend David.
A table with my dear friend David. Rodrigues and Luzia from Sometime ago
Rodrigues and Luzia from Sometime ago many years, in these 37 we have many there
many years, in these 37 we have many there in partnership and also with the professor
in partnership and also with the professor Domingues Fernandes. It is indeed a
Domingues Fernandes. It is indeed a It is an honor, and I also want to thank...
It is an honor, and I also want to thank... organizing committee of this congress
organizing committee of this congress for inviting me to participate and,
for inviting me to participate and, above all, also to include the
above all, also to include the higher education issues in a
higher education issues in a congress where people are talking about
congress where people are talking about Humanism, human rights and citizenship.
Humanism, human rights and citizenship. Well, 37 years of experience might seem like a lot.
Well, 37 years of experience might seem like a lot. a number 37, if it were 40 maybe it would be
a number 37, if it were 40 maybe it would be most remarkable, but these 37 years are 37
most remarkable, but these 37 years are 37 years lived with profound eh
years lived with profound eh emotion and resilience,
emotion and resilience, because, as we said and throughout the
because, as we said and throughout the time, inclusion is a process and the
time, inclusion is a process and the this process in higher education is a
this process in higher education is a slow process and those who work on it have
slow process and those who work on it have to actually have a lot of resilience.
to actually have a lot of resilience. because there are times that are of
because there are times that are of happiness. These are the questions that
happiness. These are the questions that The professor now says when we
The professor now says when we we managed to overcome all the
we managed to overcome all the We see obstacles and we see our students
We see obstacles and we see our students all of them following the same ones
all of them following the same ones your colleagues on the same routes,
your colleagues on the same routes, when also having academic success, it is
when also having academic success, it is For us, it's a joy. But there is also
For us, it's a joy. But there is also tears, tears of happiness and
tears, tears of happiness and also the tears of frustration. Lots of
also the tears of frustration. Lots of Sometimes this happens, but that's the case.
Sometimes this happens, but that's the case. Frustration can also make us stronger.
Frustration can also make us stronger. because, as the professor says, we don't
because, as the professor says, we don't we have to be finding the
we have to be finding the obstacles and simply accepting them
obstacles and simply accepting them obstacles. We have to look at them.
obstacles. We have to look at them. as challenges to be overcome. Put
as challenges to be overcome. Put That's right, 37 years later, since I
That's right, 37 years later, since I I entered the Faculty of Letters at
I entered the Faculty of Letters at University of Lisbon, what is it that
University of Lisbon, what is it that Has the fact changed? We can already see that the
Has the fact changed? We can already see that the The terminology has changed, hasn't it? We have
The terminology has changed, hasn't it? We have new concepts, equity, diversity,
new concepts, equity, diversity, There's talk of inclusion, things are changing.
There's talk of inclusion, things are changing. Words, but policies will have changed.
Words, but policies will have changed. Will the regulations also change?
Will the regulations also change? There are new regulations, but will they...
There are new regulations, but will they... Have practices changed as well?
Have practices changed as well? And besides, time has changed, it's been 37 years.
And besides, time has changed, it's been 37 years. But is it possible that within these walls, of
But is it possible that within these walls, of walls of the school that welcomed me 37 years ago
walls of the school that welcomed me 37 years ago Over the years, the way things have also changed has also changed.
Over the years, the way things have also changed has also changed. Do we look at each other?
Do we look at each other? These are the questions we face.
These are the questions we face. to put, and for that, what inclusion is, the
to put, and for that, what inclusion is, the Education is a fundamental right that already
Education is a fundamental right that already It was mentioned here and it's fine.
It was mentioned here and it's fine. recorded in several documents, but
recorded in several documents, but we ask ourselves now, will it be in
we ask ourselves now, will it be in higher education: this right is fulfilled
higher education: this right is fulfilled Just by opening the doors? As they would say
Just by opening the doors? As they would say Professor, a little while ago, we can all...
Professor, a little while ago, we can all... to enter, but is it just a
to enter, but is it just a The question of entering higher education? AND
The question of entering higher education? AND This is how inclusion is done, or how it can be done.
This is how inclusion is done, or how it can be done. To talk about inclusion in higher education?
To talk about inclusion in higher education? Going back a little bit,
Going back a little bit, talking about inclusion or students with
talking about inclusion or students with some are difficulties or
some are difficulties or primarily students with disabilities
primarily students with disabilities they started entering higher education
they started entering higher education starting in the 80s. And at the time what
starting in the 80s. And at the time what The problem was that there were no structures in place.
The problem was that there were no structures in place. It was a lot of goodwill, a lot of goodwill.
It was a lot of goodwill, a lot of goodwill. from the teacher, the colleague's goodwill, the
from the teacher, the colleague's goodwill, the goodwill of the employee who was taking
goodwill of the employee who was taking in the wheelchair is on or on the lap
in the wheelchair is on or on the lap colleague because there were no elevators, or the
colleague because there were no elevators, or the colleague who I would take home to record.
colleague who I would take home to record. the classes. It was all in the name of good intentions, but
the classes. It was all in the name of good intentions, but This goodwill also began to stir.
This goodwill also began to stir. It's the minds and the people who were there, because
It's the minds and the people who were there, because They started saying, "This can't be."
They started saying, "This can't be." We have, these colleagues need
We have, these colleagues need support and in the late 80s the
support and in the late 80s the student movements,
student movements, students who did not have disabilities
students who did not have disabilities And here, in these years, we've talked about students who...
And here, in these years, we've talked about students who... They had visual impairments and were for
They had visual impairments and were for They started to put pressure on each other.
They started to put pressure on each other. from the school administrations and begin to
from the school administrations and begin to the first services to emerge in
the first services to emerge in universities. passes the college to
universities. passes the college to The University of Minha is one of
The University of Minha is one of first. In 1986, the University of
first. In 1986, the University of Coimbra has the first service in
Coimbra has the first service in Portugal's support for students with
Portugal's support for students with At the time, disability was the term used.
At the time, disability was the term used. And then we continue in '88 and
And then we continue in '88 and Faculty of Letters, University of
Faculty of Letters, University of Mino and Aveiro in '94, Porto in '95
Mino and Aveiro in '94, Porto in '95 and the one in Évora in '96, that is, all of this.
and the one in Évora in '96, that is, all of this. And in this space-time we see that there is here...
And in this space-time we see that there is here... We celebrate the 30th anniversary of the declaration of
We celebrate the 30th anniversary of the declaration of Salamanca. And indeed this statement
Salamanca. And indeed this statement It also came to boost these movements.
It also came to boost these movements. within the schools without
within the schools without regulations, without
regulations, without It lacks national legislative support.
It lacks national legislative support. they came to be created and came above
they came to be created and came above Of everything, the recognition begins here.
Of everything, the recognition begins here. of students with special needs,
of students with special needs, But as the professor here was saying, the
But as the professor here was saying, the We are talking about integration. Yes, in
We are talking about integration. Yes, in Basically, we are helping the student to
Basically, we are helping the student to adapt to good. There is, in fact, no
adapt to good. There is, in fact, no She is somewhat accepted, enters the school, but the
She is somewhat accepted, enters the school, but the Regarding the measures, what is changing is very...
Regarding the measures, what is changing is very... little.
little. In the 2000s, one of these services appeared.
In the 2000s, one of these services appeared. They come together and form a group of
They come together and form a group of work that has already been discussed, the group of
work that has already been discussed, the group of work to support students with
work to support students with Deficiency in higher education. And this
Deficiency in higher education. And this It's starting to move a little, actually.
It's starting to move a little, actually. plus schools nationwide. In
plus schools nationwide. In In 2007, we conducted a survey,
In 2007, we conducted a survey, We sent this with the support of the general management of
We sent this with the support of the general management of higher education
higher education a questionnaire to find out after all
a questionnaire to find out after all How many are we, who are we, what is it that
How many are we, who are we, what is it that we have. And it's interesting that those who don't
we have. And it's interesting that those who don't had support services, starts to think
had support services, starts to think through that questionnaire, perhaps
through that questionnaire, perhaps This is a service that we should have.
This is a service that we should have. here at our school too, see you later or
here at our school too, see you later or less to
less to 2010.
2010. A lot of it comes down to integration. You
A lot of it comes down to integration. You Services are increasing more in education.
Services are increasing more in education. public education compared to private education. And in
public education compared to private education. And in 2018, with the changes in legislation
2018, with the changes in legislation In terms of compulsory education, they begin
In terms of compulsory education, they begin also to be promoted
also to be promoted Universities rethinking their reality.
Universities rethinking their reality. And not only that. There is also beginning to be a
And not only that. There is also beginning to be a greater pressure from other groups. these
greater pressure from other groups. these students that Professor David has
students that Professor David has He spoke little, the students coming from
He spoke little, the students coming from Palope, for example, are what they bring to us with
Palope, for example, are what they bring to us with in large numbers, but equally with
in large numbers, but equally with major difficulties. And we have to
major difficulties. And we have to We need to welcome them and adapt the system.
We need to welcome them and adapt the system. We have to help them succeed. is from
We have to help them succeed. is from fact a
fact a a situation that is real,
a situation that is real, but not only students with
but not only students with neurodivergences, students with,
neurodivergences, students with, forgiveness, learning difficulties
forgiveness, learning difficulties They are also beginning to emerge and request from
They are also beginning to emerge and request from a school that creates the conditions for them
a school that creates the conditions for them They need these things to achieve academic success. AND
They need these things to achieve academic success. AND it is indeed also at this moment a
it is indeed also at this moment a I'll talk to you in a little while later.
I'll talk to you in a little while later. as they begin to emerge, the schools
as they begin to emerge, the schools they start to look at this idea, this
they start to look at this idea, this issue within the scope of what they called
issue within the scope of what they called at the time social responsibility and
at the time social responsibility and This issue is beginning to be accepted as the
This issue is beginning to be accepted as the inclusion, such as being recognized as
inclusion, such as being recognized as educational quality and in the realm of ethics
educational quality and in the realm of ethics institutional. It is from this year that
institutional. It is from this year that They are starting to appear.
They are starting to appear. What is the impact? In fact, that
What is the impact? In fact, that Are we getting students? Every year,
Are we getting students? Every year, the General Directorate of Statistics of
the General Directorate of Statistics of Education and Science release the data with
Education and Science release the data with based on the questionnaire which is as
based on the questionnaire which is as institutions fill it out. And from 2024, of
institutions fill it out. And from 2024, of From 2324 to 2425, there was an increase of
From 2324 to 2425, there was an increase of 30.70%
30.70% of students who requested the status of
of students who requested the status of student with educational needs
student with educational needs specific. In the previous year, that is,
specific. In the previous year, that is, from 22 to 23 to from 22 23 to 23 24 o
from 22 to 23 to from 22 23 to 23 24 o The increase was only 8.7%. Notice, from
The increase was only 8.7%. Notice, from From one year to the next, there was a...
From one year to the next, there was a... substantial difference of 30%. But above
substantial difference of 30%. But above From everything, the increase in the private sector
From everything, the increase in the private sector It was even more significant, it was...
It was even more significant, it was... 75.70%.
75.70%. This means that students begin to
This means that students begin to also see private education is like a
also see private education is like a alternative or as a way to be able to
alternative or as a way to be able to to attend higher education.
to attend higher education. But we have this issue every year.
But we have this issue every year. That is, but ultimately there is an increase in numbers.
That is, but ultimately there is an increase in numbers. But who are these students? How is that
But who are these students? How is that We, I consider that we are a
We, I consider that we are a just a little bit like we are the service of
just a little bit like we are the service of firemen? And I'll explain why.
firemen? And I'll explain why. Because every year the students leave, they are
Because every year the students leave, they are placed in schools and we or in
placed in schools and we or in colleges and we the services there is the signal
colleges and we the services there is the signal the alarm sounds when the student arrives and says: "I
the alarm sounds when the student arrives and says: "I I'm here, I need support" and knot
I'm here, I need support" and knot that which we may have done, but if
that which we may have done, but if If there are measures, changes to the rooms, eh
If there are measures, changes to the rooms, eh to create other conditions that were not
to create other conditions that were not as planned, we begin
as planned, we begin We became firefighters because we have to.
We became firefighters because we have to. at that moment resort to everything that is
at that moment resort to everything that is the
the the resources available. Therefore, the one of
the resources available. Therefore, the one of In fact, it's a necessity that we have. We have
In fact, it's a necessity that we have. We have There is a problem in this situation. For us it is
There is a problem in this situation. For us it is It is important to know who the students are.
It is important to know who the students are. They reach us, but it's with the application of
They reach us, but it's with the application of general data protection regulation
general data protection regulation data protection, this information
data protection, this information They are not collected. Therefore, we
They are not collected. Therefore, we We know that we are having many
We know that we are having many The students are coming, and that's good, which is a good sign.
The students are coming, and that's good, which is a good sign. We are here to welcome you. But who
We are here to welcome you. But who Are these the students? I can say in
Are these the students? I can say in Faculty of Arts of the University of
Faculty of Arts of the University of Lisbon, because we work with these
Lisbon, because we work with these numbers, which I had been working with for 37 years.
numbers, which I had been working with for 37 years. with 13 students with visual impairments.
with 13 students with visual impairments. This year the number has increased, there are 123.
This year the number has increased, there are 123. But I'm talking to you about data from
But I'm talking to you about data from first semester 2020 is 20 ai 25 26
first semester 2020 is 20 ai 25 26 and that, unlike in previous years,
and that, unlike in previous years, our group with whom we work
our group with whom we work there are more students with the disorder of
there are more students with the disorder of Petro of autism, students with
Petro of autism, students with specific difficulties
specific difficulties learning. these numbers of these
learning. these numbers of these students at our college duplicated and
students at our college duplicated and In some cases, they tripled. What is this?
In some cases, they tripled. What is this? What this means is that we have here a
What this means is that we have here a The diversity of the population we have
The diversity of the population we have that you need to pay attention to. And these are not
that you need to pay attention to. And these are not included as well because they are the students
included as well because they are the students who request student status with
who request student status with specific educational needs, but
specific educational needs, but we have other groups that we give
we have other groups that we give attention. we have the case of the students for
attention. we have the case of the students for Lopes, we have the case of students with
Lopes, we have the case of students with Due to financial difficulties, we created a
Due to financial difficulties, we created a a specific program for them and much
a specific program for them and much This year is interesting, reflecting a
This year is interesting, reflecting a It is only in these numbers that these
It is only in these numbers that these programs that they don't usually watch
programs that they don't usually watch were participating, we have at least two
were participating, we have at least two students with autism spectrum disorder
students with autism spectrum disorder working in the university services,
working in the university services, which is wonderful for us, which is
which is wonderful for us, which is We finally got these resources.
We finally got these resources. that we are giving to all
that we are giving to all students, these students also resort to
students, these students also resort to him, because this also has a problem.
him, because this also has a problem. that students have to, just like in
that students have to, just like in In the past, we emerged with the
In the past, we emerged with the claiming their rights, the
claiming their rights, the our students, the students who arrive at
our students, the students who arrive at colleges, universities, have to
colleges, universities, have to to demand better conditions for themselves
to demand better conditions for themselves rights. And often what we
rights. And often what we The thing is, we call them...
The thing is, we call them... to participate in meetings, to give opinions
to participate in meetings, to give opinions so that we can improve that
so that we can improve that what we do and have many difficulties
what we do and have many difficulties times in getting your answers. Put
times in getting your answers. Put Yes, we need students, huh?
Yes, we need students, huh? Help them too, because sometimes...
Help them too, because sometimes... It's natural that they don't feel so comfortable.
It's natural that they don't feel so comfortable. to do so, but that they can effectively
to do so, but that they can effectively Give your opinion. Nowadays, education
Give your opinion. Nowadays, education superior that retains some of the
superior that retains some of the dimensions of diversity or difficulty
dimensions of diversity or difficulty in responding to diversity, to
in responding to diversity, to dimensions of inclusion, whether physical or
dimensions of inclusion, whether physical or digital, whether pedagogical or not, which is already
digital, whether pedagogical or not, which is already to speak and probably the teacher
to speak and probably the teacher Domingues will speak, but above all
Domingues will speak, but above all we are also beginning to grasp the dimension
we are also beginning to grasp the dimension cultural, linguistic and ethnic. These
cultural, linguistic and ethnic. These These are the new varieties with which we...
These are the new varieties with which we... we confronted, and also the issue of health.
we confronted, and also the issue of health. mental health and well-being. It is extremely
mental health and well-being. It is extremely important. Those who are not well have nothing.
important. Those who are not well have nothing. If you don't feel like it, let's go study. AND
If you don't feel like it, let's go study. AND I need to help and motivate our people.
I need to help and motivate our people. students in that sense, but we are
students in that sense, but we are talking about institutions and in fact
talking about institutions and in fact they continue to see, just as in other
they continue to see, just as in other Issues in the country, inequalities. There is
Issues in the country, inequalities. There is institutions, the major universities,
institutions, the major universities, those that have already started, have
those that have already started, have effectively, many services already exist.
effectively, many services already exist. consolidated and inclusive practices
consolidated and inclusive practices consistent and are currently in a
consistent and are currently in a another level to address more complex issues
another level to address more complex issues h eh various, while there are others
h eh various, while there are others universities that they still lack
universities that they still lack resources, infrastructure is lacking for
resources, infrastructure is lacking for answer some of those that we already
answer some of those that we already We don't talk about them much, despite
We don't talk about them much, despite still being present. But above all
still being present. But above all everything also includes that which, for me,
everything also includes that which, for me, My 37 years of experience is...
My 37 years of experience is... cultural resistance and issues of
cultural resistance and issues of if we make education part of the curriculum
if we make education part of the curriculum Or adapting some, we are downloading the
Or adapting some, we are downloading the level or are we affecting the quality of
level or are we affecting the quality of course. I can't be there, I've already been told...
course. I can't be there, I've already been told... me, my lady, this, I in the end
me, my lady, this, I in the end this student has a certificate equal to
this student has a certificate equal to other. And I said, "Yes, of course, but no."
other. And I said, "Yes, of course, but no." It's possible because he didn't respond to the same.
It's possible because he didn't respond to the same. CV than this colleague. if
CV than this colleague. if if you don't have a resume, you don't have the
if you don't have a resume, you don't have the I can't have a special certificate.
I can't have a special certificate. It's about fulfilling what you're asking of me.
It's about fulfilling what you're asking of me. This is one of the issues that happens and
This is one of the issues that happens and despite me telling you that for a long time
despite me telling you that for a long time Unfortunately, the schools...
Unfortunately, the schools... They're made of people, aren't they? all of us.
They're made of people, aren't they? all of us. And just a short time ago, last year,
And just a short time ago, last year, A situation arose that I never
A situation arose that I never I imagined that in the literature faculty
I imagined that in the literature faculty This happened.
This happened. if it happened. We have the service there.
if it happened. We have the service there. of firefighters. When we have a student
of firefighters. When we have a student that enters us in a wheelchair and that
that enters us in a wheelchair and that We need you, we only have two rooms that
We need you, we only have two rooms that They are not accessible at the moment. And for
They are not accessible at the moment. And for Bad luck, that student had that day.
Bad luck, that student had that day. I had a class scheduled for that room.
I had a class scheduled for that room. And we'll get the services done quickly.
And we'll get the services done quickly. They tried to change it, but incredibly...
They tried to change it, but incredibly... It seems the professor who was there did not
It seems the professor who was there did not I wanted to leave the classroom because... well, no.
I wanted to leave the classroom because... well, no. I wanted to leave the classroom and
I wanted to leave the classroom and that student was deprived that day
that student was deprived that day to be in class because the teacher is pure
to be in class because the teacher is pure and simply didn't want to switch to
and simply didn't want to switch to next room. This to me is
next room. This to me is Truly shocking. And this means
Truly shocking. And this means to say that we are 37 years old.
to say that we are 37 years old. to speak every day, to raise awareness and
to speak every day, to raise awareness and we are still confronted with something that
we are still confronted with something that For us it was so basic and it was what
For us it was so basic and it was what We fought at first, but still
We fought at first, but still It continues to be in our classrooms.
It continues to be in our classrooms. We can also say that I spoke a little while ago.
We can also say that I spoke a little while ago. the difference between eh eh services and
the difference between eh eh services and institutions,
institutions, But we have one thing that I think...
But we have one thing that I think... which is the only one. Uh, it's the one in Portugal and the
which is the only one. Uh, it's the one in Portugal and the higher education has no legislation
higher education has no legislation specific to this subject, that is,
specific to this subject, that is, We have legislation up to the level of education.
We have legislation up to the level of education. mandatory, but from then on the State
mandatory, but from then on the State continues to think it's from
continues to think it's from responsibility of universities
responsibility of universities to guarantee what belongs to
to guarantee what belongs to responsibility of the State itself
responsibility of the State itself to guarantee your rights. Because what
to guarantee your rights. Because what What does the State do? Ah, why is this?
What does the State do? Ah, why is this? Because universities, education
Because universities, education superiors have autonomy. So, inside the
superiors have autonomy. So, inside the its autonomy, that was the justification.
its autonomy, that was the justification. that they gave me, they must indeed have their own.
that they gave me, they must indeed have their own. own regulations. effectively
own regulations. effectively institutions are responding, they are...
institutions are responding, they are... to have its own regulations, but
to have its own regulations, but There is effectively here the State is...
There is effectively here the State is... to shirk responsibility for ensuring the
to shirk responsibility for ensuring the right that is enshrined in
right that is enshrined in Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, the
Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, the These students have the right to education. THE
These students have the right to education. THE What does the State do? Well, the state
What does the State do? Well, the state what he does is partially justified.
what he does is partially justified. and giving students some benefits,
and giving students some benefits, some conditions guarantee them the
some conditions guarantee them the access through the quota
access through the quota priority for candidates with
priority for candidates with deficiency. We now also have...
deficiency. We now also have... support through scholarships
support through scholarships students with disabilities up to 60%,
students with disabilities up to 60%, scholarship and accommodation supplements and
scholarship and accommodation supplements and He created it very recently, for whom
He created it very recently, for whom It's good that you see that it's in education.
It's good that you see that it's in education. Check the counter; it includes where they are there.
Check the counter; it includes where they are there. published the services that exist
published the services that exist in universities and the points of
in universities and the points of contact, which is extremely useful for
contact, which is extremely useful for whoever is following a case and
whoever is following a case and student wants to go to higher education and
student wants to go to higher education and that needs more attention
that needs more attention special. Furthermore, regarding
special. Furthermore, regarding institutions,
institutions, We've checked this recently.
We've checked this recently. It is the general direction of higher education.
It is the general direction of higher education. launched a program called program
launched a program called program success and reducing dropout rates in education
success and reducing dropout rates in education superior and that many institutions,
superior and that many institutions, namely the University of Lisbon,
namely the University of Lisbon, has been providing training for teachers, for
has been providing training for teachers, for employees, for students,
employees, for students, in matters of inclusion, of
in matters of inclusion, of diversity, among other things. Beyond
diversity, among other things. Beyond Of all this, you must have already heard of
Of all this, you must have already heard of mental health program, check
mental health program, check psychological, from the check of
psychological, from the check of Well, now it's in terms of food.
Well, now it's in terms of food. that now and others still others
that now and others still others programs that have actually given to
programs that have actually given to institutions, especially those that
institutions, especially those that They have fewer resources, their opportunity
They have fewer resources, their opportunity to improve conditions and of
to improve conditions and of to adapt their schools. to these new
to adapt their schools. to these new public, to the challenges of these new ones.
public, to the challenges of these new ones. Well, what else are we missing? H,
Well, what else are we missing? H, What we lack here, besides the legislation that
What we lack here, besides the legislation that I've already said it, we also lack a greater
I've already said it, we also lack a greater relationship with the schools of
relationship with the schools of secondary education or levels of
secondary education or levels of previous teachings so that this passage
previous teachings so that this passage We would also like that here, and I think that
We would also like that here, and I think that It was extremely productive for us to
It was extremely productive for us to to do a good job, so that we are
to do a good job, so that we are so that our students are well.
so that our students are well. integrated, that these results of
integrated, that these results of national competitions were released much earlier
national competitions were released much earlier for us, even before that of those who
for us, even before that of those who They go out for the students, that's it, for the
They go out for the students, that's it, for the students who enter through the entrance exam
students who enter through the entrance exam nationally, it is essential for us to leave
nationally, it is essential for us to leave of us, the families, being distressed
of us, the families, being distressed when you arrive, because it's a moment of
when you arrive, because it's a moment of happiness. It's the most wonderful phase of
happiness. It's the most wonderful phase of A young person's life begins when they enter education.
A young person's life begins when they enter education. superior, making friends. It's the way we are.
superior, making friends. It's the way we are. We also have mentoring programs,
We also have mentoring programs, to prepare the mentors, to
to prepare the mentors, to we prepare the activities and adapt them
we prepare the activities and adapt them as much as possible so that they can be
as much as possible so that they can be fact hh
fact hh the best moments in life.
the best moments in life. Finally, the process, the inclusion in
Finally, the process, the inclusion in higher education is an ethic in
higher education is an ethic in movement, it is in fact a process
movement, it is in fact a process demanding, it's an unfinished process, it is
demanding, it's an unfinished process, it is profoundly human,
profoundly human, It requires constant reflection from all of us.
It requires constant reflection from all of us. humility,
humility, willingness to learn and ability to
willingness to learn and ability to to change.
to change. Finally, I would like to tell you that
Finally, I would like to tell you that It is done, and this, for me, is what I...
It is done, and this, for me, is what I... He has been guiding people since he was 37 years old, which is to look...
He has been guiding people since he was 37 years old, which is to look... to the other. We don't know, we don't
to the other. We don't know, we don't We want them to decide for us, we
We want them to decide for us, we We want to be heard. Therefore, we have
We want to be heard. Therefore, we have Instead of looking at the other person, we have to listen.
Instead of looking at the other person, we have to listen. We have to adapt, we have to welcome,
We have to adapt, we have to welcome, We have to share our space. Us
We have to share our space. Us We live, inclusion is lived in our
We live, inclusion is lived in our in our daily practice
in our daily practice gestures, in our decisions, in our
gestures, in our decisions, in our attitudes, in the way we value
attitudes, in the way we value People, each one of us. And she
People, each one of us. And she It is realized in policies, culture and
It is realized in policies, culture and institutional practices, but measures
institutional practices, but measures feasible, concrete, not
feasible, concrete, not declarations of intent, because they
declarations of intent, because they They're there too.
They're there too. We have to think about ourselves, the schools, and the
We have to think about ourselves, the schools, and the Higher education trains the country's decision-makers.
Higher education trains the country's decision-makers. They are our future decision-makers. And having
They are our future decision-makers. And having also taking into account what we have already heard, it is
also taking into account what we have already heard, it is worrying. We have to create
worrying. We have to create in fact an inclusive environment. We have to
in fact an inclusive environment. We have to Educating with and for difference. We have to
Educating with and for difference. We have to effectively forming conscious citizens
effectively forming conscious citizens and supportive, promoting inclusion,
and supportive, promoting inclusion, because it's not just about teaching, it's about
because it's not just about teaching, it's about Humanism, human rights and citizenship.
Humanism, human rights and citizenship. Thanks.
Thanks. [applause]
Very good, very good.
very good. What a great 37 years! H,
What a great 37 years! H, very good. Thank you very much, professor.
very good. Thank you very much, professor. Lília Pires.
Lília Pires. Curriculum, pedagogy and assessment.
Curriculum, pedagogy and assessment. perspectives for diversity and for
perspectives for diversity and for inclusion. I now pass the word to the professor.
inclusion. I now pass the word to the professor. Domingues Fernandes.
Domingues Fernandes. Well, good morning to everyone. Eh,
Well, good morning to everyone. Eh, I naturally wanted to begin by saying hello.
I naturally wanted to begin by saying hello. my esteemed colleagues of
my esteemed colleagues of table.
table. I wanted to say thank you.
I wanted to say thank you. The honorable invitation is highly appreciated.
The honorable invitation is highly appreciated. that I was directed to be here
that I was directed to be here with you this morning. Eh,
I have a particular admiration for work of this excellent institution,
work of this excellent institution, Eh,
Eh, that Professor António Teodoro
that Professor António Teodoro he managed to gather around him
he managed to gather around him excellent quality teachers,
excellent quality investigators And I have great admiration for them, I repeat,
And I have great admiration for them, I repeat, for the work that is done here
for the work that is done here very prestigious for the university,
very prestigious for the university, for the people who work there.
for the people who work there. AND
AND Therefore, I am very grateful and it is with much
Therefore, I am very grateful and it is with much I'm so glad I'm here.
I'm so glad I'm here. I,
I, David just picked up something that I
David just picked up something that I I apologize,
I apologize, But I can't miss a meeting.
But I can't miss a meeting. of education, in a meeting of people
of education, in a meeting of people concerned about the values they have here
concerned about the values they have here coming to be expressed, namely
coming to be expressed, namely in this last intervention,
in this last intervention, Fantastic intervention by Dr. Lília
Fantastic intervention by Dr. Lília Pires talking about things that nobody
Pires talking about things that nobody he speaks. of the things that are kicked to
he speaks. of the things that are kicked to Under the rugs.
Eh, I cannot help but mention here the
I cannot help but mention here the In memory of Dr. and Álvaro Laborinho
In memory of Dr. and Álvaro Laborinho Pike
Pike who left us yesterday.
who left us yesterday. It's a huge loss for the country.
It's a huge loss for the country. It's an example.
It's an example. Well, in whatever remains for me in
Well, in whatever remains for me in My life, I won't stop thinking.
My life, I won't stop thinking. in his example,
in his example, of a thinker, of a philosopher. I think that
of a thinker, of a philosopher. I think that He was a philosopher.
He was a philosopher. an educator, I also think he was one.
an educator, I also think he was one. educator who spoke about education, who
educator who spoke about education, who Very few people talk about Portugal.
Very few people talk about Portugal. a progressive man,
a progressive man, a democrat
a democrat deep
deep And above all, a humanist.
And above all, a humanist. And I found,
I had, I, I, I apologize for being with,
I, I, I apologize for being with, With this, perhaps I'm crushing the...
With this, perhaps I'm crushing the... Okay, folks, but I'll finish this part now.
Okay, folks, but I'll finish this part now. I was unable to do it today because I am
I was unable to do it today because I am deeply shocked as David is
deeply shocked as David is And like many of us will be, whoever
And like many of us will be, whoever I met him, and I had the enormous privilege of knowing him.
I met him, and I had the enormous privilege of knowing him. It's a great privilege to spend time with him. AND
It's a great privilege to spend time with him. AND The last time I was with him was in
The last time I was with him was in University of Minho, at the Biennial of
University of Minho, at the Biennial of Education, which I think he was...
Education, which I think he was... very much related to that. In July,
very much related to that. In July, He told me he had something.
He told me he had something. Whatever, but it was fine. A man
Whatever, but it was fine. A man who ran through the country guiding his own
who ran through the country guiding his own car from one side to the other and go
car from one side to the other and go Schools everywhere.
Schools everywhere. A lasting inspiration, a sense of
A lasting inspiration, a sense of humor, of an absolutely intelligent
humor, of an absolutely intelligent extraordinary.
extraordinary. Ké had the great privilege, the great
Ké had the great privilege, the great honor
honor to have it in some of the initiatives of
to have it in some of the initiatives of National Council of Education.
National Council of Education. And I wanted to leave this record here.
And I wanted to leave this record here. as a form
as a form to honor him
to honor him and tell him that I already feel many
and tell him that I already feel many longing
longing It's his.
It's his. I will always miss him very much.
I will always miss him very much. Please forgive me once again for this.
Please forgive me once again for this. inroito
inroito and moving on to the questions that
and moving on to the questions that They bring me here,
They bring me here, I think diversity is a
I think diversity is a a concept that has always existed, it is a
a concept that has always existed, it is a an almost natural concept that reminds us
an almost natural concept that reminds us for human nature and for these
for human nature and for these aspects. the differences that exist
aspects. the differences that exist between us when we enter the school.
between us when we enter the school. But
But democracies,
democracies They allowed it and have continued to allow it.
educational systems receive more and more
more and more most diverse origins
most diverse origins of
of other countries,
other countries, people today
people today with different ethnicities,
with different ethnicities, with different backgrounds
with different backgrounds sociocultural,
with different religions. I
I I started my activity, I...
I started my activity, I... I taught for about 50 years.
in Elvas. And in the late 1980s,
And in the late 1980s, I was finishing my doctorate.
I was finishing my doctorate. in the United States. I had a supervisor,
in the United States. I had a supervisor, a co-advisor from California. At the time
a co-advisor from California. At the time there was
there was uh Zoom, so it was like that
uh Zoom, so it was like that strange thing, because it was a
strange thing, because it was a telephone with a built-in speaker and
telephone with a built-in speaker and He's in California and we're in Texas, right?
He's in California and we're in Texas, right? And he was talking, but I wasn't listening, was I?
And he was talking, but I wasn't listening, was I? which was something that happened a bit later, I...
which was something that happened a bit later, I... to present a PowerPoint presentation defending your work and such.
to present a PowerPoint presentation defending your work and such. And he had PowerPoint there, and I...
And he had PowerPoint there, and I... I had sent it to him and at the time he
I had sent it to him and at the time he He mentioned something he wants to tell me,
He mentioned something he wants to tell me, I was impressed. He said:
I was impressed. He said: "I'm conducting an investigation here in
"I'm conducting an investigation here in San Jose, California,
San Jose, California, in a class that has 17 different ethnicities.
in a class that has 17 different ethnicities. There are young people, young, I mean, that here
There are young people, young, I mean, that here In Portugal, it was an absolutely...
In Portugal, it was an absolutely... unthinkable. I mean, no, nobody
unthinkable. I mean, no, nobody I was thinking about that. Therefore, from this point of
I was thinking about that. Therefore, from this point of From that perspective, we lacked diversity.
From that perspective, we lacked diversity. Because it has always existed, hasn't it?
Because it has always existed, hasn't it? Naturally,
Naturally, and we also had a lot of diversity
and we also had a lot of diversity marked by socioeconomic origin
marked by socioeconomic origin of the young
of the young and the children.
and the children. But we didn't have this diversity that
But we didn't have this diversity that many countries had a lot of first-time experiences.
many countries had a lot of first-time experiences. That's us, isn't it?
That's us, isn't it? Eh,
Eh, It is clear that this diversity
This poses a problem for democracies. to democratic countries, where people
to democratic countries, where people They can say and share their
They can say and share their opinions, however harsh they may be
opinions, however harsh they may be before the rulers, but they can,
before the rulers, but they can, because there are many countries where not
because there are many countries where not they can.
they can. And if we look closely at the countries
And if we look closely at the countries autocratic
autocratic and for dictatorships,
and for dictatorships, We don't have the diversity that we have.
We don't have the diversity that we have. in truly democratic countries,
in truly democratic countries, as we understand it under a
as we understand it under a capitalist society, etc. Everything, without
capitalist society, etc. Everything, without doubt. But I don't know him, nor does anyone else.
doubt. But I don't know him, nor does anyone else. I think you know of a system that
I think you know of a system that allow it, in fact, because only the systems
allow it, in fact, because only the systems It is democratic people who have this great
It is democratic people who have this great The challenge of inclusion. Why? Let's see,
The challenge of inclusion. Why? Let's see, Portugal, despite all the
Portugal, despite all the difficulties,
difficulties, Our country does not deny entry into
Our country does not deny entry into schools for all boys and girls,
schools for all boys and girls, all the young people who come from different
all the young people who come from different countries of the world
countries of the world in search of a better of the best
in search of a better of the best living conditions, in search of that
living conditions, in search of that that their countries, for various reasons,
that their countries, for various reasons, They are unable to provide it for them.
They are unable to provide it for them. Therefore, I would say that there is a
Therefore, I would say that there is a relationship
relationship between democracy, as we know it
between democracy, as we know it We understand in the Western world,
We understand in the Western world, and diversity
and diversity and
and Naturally, inclusion.
Naturally, inclusion. Because, therefore, I see here this
Because, therefore, I see here this This triangle, isn't it, in which the
This triangle, isn't it, in which the democracy
democracy and inclusion are linked to
and inclusion are linked to development of democracies and in
development of democracies and in world.
world. Of course, this raises a question here.
Of course, this raises a question here. ideological problem
ideological problem Significant, isn't it? that's it
Significant, isn't it? that's it or a problem
or a problem that ideology
that ideology it brings us. Therefore, the question is to know
it brings us. Therefore, the question is to know if ideology reaches us, let's say, in
if ideology reaches us, let's say, in In very broad terms, ideology
In very broad terms, ideology democratic
democratic and the knowledge gained through experience, let's say
and the knowledge gained through experience, let's say like this.
like this. In other words, notice that
In other words, notice that any educational process is
any educational process is naturally based on a set of
naturally based on a set of social values and a set of
social values and a set of Political values, right? Without a doubt it is
Political values, right? Without a doubt it is Yes, these are social values, they are
Yes, these are social values, they are these political values,
these political values, forgiveness, which makes us have a
forgiveness, which makes us have a a particular attitude. For example, let's go.
a particular attitude. For example, let's go. speaking of in relation to Portuguese
speaking of in relation to Portuguese non-native language. it starts
Of these values, I am thinking of values
values democratic,
democratic, that we have this, we have a certain
that we have this, we have a certain A vision of what Portuguese should be.
A vision of what Portuguese should be. of a non-native language, because we have a
of a non-native language, because we have a the view that we have to make an effort
the view that we have to make an effort significant in Portuguese society and
significant in Portuguese society and now restricting this here to society
now restricting this here to society Portuguese to integrate children and
Portuguese to integrate children and young people who come from different countries and
young people who come from different countries and Those who don't speak don't master the language.
Those who don't speak don't master the language. Portuguese. So why? Why
Portuguese. So why? Why We also think, those who are
We also think, those who are Democrats, those who are...
Democrats, those who are... humanists,
humanists, what our dear Álvaro was like
what our dear Álvaro was like Laborinho Lúcio, whom I forgot about
Laborinho Lúcio, whom I forgot about I mean, but he had a role.
I mean, but he had a role. absolutely fundamental in Portugal
absolutely fundamental in Portugal to have, let's say, a statute
to have, let's say, a statute Child's legal rights, I don't know if that's how it works.
Child's legal rights, I don't know if that's how it works. It is said, but he gave, the child
It is said, but he gave, the child it became a legal entity, no
it became a legal entity, no became a young man, an adult.
became a young man, an adult. Smaller, isn't it? as was the custom
Smaller, isn't it? as was the custom I mean, right? No, he had that role.
I mean, right? No, he had that role. and therefore we
and therefore we We want inclusion.
We want inclusion. because we know that the inclusion of
because we know that the inclusion of For children and young people, it will be a step
For children and young people, it will be a step absolutely fundamental for their
absolutely fundamental for their their own parents to integrate into society
their own parents to integrate into society Portuguese. Speaking of society
Portuguese. Speaking of society Portuguese, it is, let's say, the first, to a
Portuguese, it is, let's say, the first, to a a very important step. That's why the
a very important step. That's why the The National Education Council is a
The National Education Council is a A bit is uneasy and has already expressed it.
A bit is uneasy and has already expressed it. this concern, because the coverage of
this concern, because the coverage of Portuguese as a non-native language is
Portuguese as a non-native language is far from answering the real
far from answering the real needs. You see, it's a
needs. You see, it's a A child being in school, not mastering the
A child being in school, not mastering the Portuguese and there is no support there, no
Portuguese and there is no support there, no and? Therefore, this raises problems.
and? Therefore, this raises problems. serious issues for the country and are, in fact, questions
serious issues for the country and are, in fact, questions which need to be addressed. I was
which need to be addressed. I was to speak about ideology.
to speak about ideology. Therefore, ideology leads us to have a
Therefore, ideology leads us to have a a certain view of what integration is
a certain view of what integration is children in schools, of the children
children in schools, of the children immigrants, but it also gives us an insight
immigrants, but it also gives us an insight about what integration is
about what integration is It's the young Portuguese people who come from
It's the young Portuguese people who come from means
means depressed from a cultural point of view,
depressed from a cultural point of view, social and economic. That was one thing
social and economic. That was one thing which has always existed, because what we
which has always existed, because what we We have it in Portugal, and we still have it.
We have it in Portugal, and we still have it. Unfortunately, more than 50 years have passed.
Unfortunately, more than 50 years have passed. April 25th is an education.
April 25th is an education. which is very much geared towards entry into
which is very much geared towards entry into higher education right from the
higher education right from the first cycle of education
first cycle of education basic, where the 77% and 87% begin, and
basic, where the 77% and 87% begin, and you have four and you have three and you have two and one and
you have four and you have three and you have two and one and I don't know what. That you are the best in the class,
I don't know what. That you are the best in the class, etc. It begins in the first cycle of education.
etc. It begins in the first cycle of education. basic and then there's a sort of one, I
basic and then there's a sort of one, I I see it as a kind of...
I see it as a kind of... straw where everyone goes through there
straw where everyone goes through there a certain layer
a certain layer of Portuguese people, of young people and children
of Portuguese people, of young people and children Portuguese, that everything is oriented
Portuguese, that everything is oriented for them to enter education
for them to enter education superior. Of course, perhaps this is
superior. Of course, perhaps this is a bit of an exaggeration, but the truth is that
a bit of an exaggeration, but the truth is that We still have many young people, thousands.
We still have many young people, thousands. of young people who do not pursue this
of young people who do not pursue this path and that are excluded or
path and that are excluded or segregated and worse still, they are segregated
segregated and worse still, they are segregated and excluded in the very first years of
and excluded in the very first years of education. That's what it is!
education. That's what it is! Extraordinary, isn't it? Soon we
Extraordinary, isn't it? Soon we Early years, right? We have
Early years, right? We have children who reach the fourth year of
children who reach the fourth year of schooling without knowing how to read and write.
schooling without knowing how to read and write. This is one thing, anyway, I'm not even going to...
This is one thing, anyway, I'm not even going to... to say what I think about it,
to say what I think about it, Because what I would say was very shocking.
Because what I would say was very shocking. here. I have no words but to
here. I have no words but to shocking to say what I
shocking to say what I I feel about that. And sometimes in
I feel about that. And sometimes in 5th grade,
5th grade, And now I'm going to say something, I don't want to
And now I'm going to say something, I don't want to jcar nobody, in quotation marks, many quotation marks,
jcar nobody, in quotation marks, many quotation marks, They are normal children, they don't have any problems.
They are normal children, they don't have any problems. nor needs
nor needs special health conditions, as there are many
special health conditions, as there are many children who have problems
children who have problems deep cognitive or intermediate or not
deep cognitive or intermediate or not These are the children who have none.
These are the children who have none. diagnosis, but not those kinds of diagnoses.
diagnosis, but not those kinds of diagnoses. They belong to others and, therefore, they are not
They belong to others and, therefore, they are not included by and simply the system
included by and simply the system Portuguese educational system. And so it happens in
Portuguese educational system. And so it happens in other countries, in other democracies.
other countries, in other democracies. This is a fight we have to have. AND
This is a fight we have to have. AND a fight. And where am I going with this?
a fight. And where am I going with this? Naturally
Naturally I don't want them to think that I didn't do the
I don't want them to think that I didn't do the Homework, right? I.e,
Homework, right? I.e, What I think is that, and going back a
What I think is that, and going back a a little while ago,
a little while ago, the question
the question as a rule, there is a problem here in which the
as a rule, there is a problem here in which the ideology
and the experience of people or experiential knowledge
of people or experiential knowledge done, as is often said, will be
done, as is often said, will be sufficient for us to face these
sufficient for us to face these challenges, in order to face the challenge of
challenges, in order to face the challenge of diversity and to face the challenge
diversity and to face the challenge from the
from the inclusion.
inclusion. I don't think so.
I don't think so. I don't think so, because something is missing here.
I don't think so, because something is missing here. component that is normally handled with
component that is normally handled with some carelessness throughout all of
some carelessness throughout all of countries and especially policies
countries and especially policies public, which is
public, which is knowledge,
knowledge, as L Schulman told us
as L Schulman told us There has been more for about 40 years.
There has been more for about 40 years. the teachers, the professors, the
the teachers, the professors, the Education professionals have three types
Education professionals have three types knowledge that is absolutely
knowledge that is absolutely fundamentals
fundamentals And what is knowledge naturally?
And what is knowledge naturally? of the discipline or disciplines that
of the discipline or disciplines that People teach. Therefore, the
People teach. Therefore, the in-depth knowledge
in-depth knowledge of a scientific field or fields
of a scientific field or fields scientific
scientific It is absolutely unavoidable and
It is absolutely unavoidable and Absolutely fundamental.
Absolutely fundamental. But then there's the knowledge.
But then there's the knowledge. pedagogical.
pedagogical. The pedagogical knowledge that was
The pedagogical knowledge that was recently discovered in education
recently discovered in education superior, especially from Bologna,
superior, especially from Bologna, it is not? Or what's it called?
it is not? Or what's it called? Bologna Treaty, it's not a treaty, it's the
Bologna Treaty, it's not a treaty, it's the Bologna process and/or the declaration of
Bologna process and/or the declaration of Bologna, perhaps. It was from there that
Bologna, perhaps. It was from there that all universities have
all universities have departments somehow connected to
departments somehow connected to The question of pedagogy. It was from there
The question of pedagogy. It was from there that we have, and rightly so, the CNAPS in Portugal and
that we have, and rightly so, the CNAPS in Portugal and other initiatives. Lots of
other initiatives. Lots of universities do indeed have a
universities do indeed have a growing concern
growing concern this level. And notice, the knowledge
this level. And notice, the knowledge pedagogical, as L. Schulman said,
pedagogical, as L. Schulman said, it is not?
it is not? Eh,
Eh, It's indispensable, it is, it's part of that.
It's indispensable, it is, it's part of that. of that triad that he defined
of that triad that he defined knowledge, because there is a lack of it here
knowledge, because there is a lack of it here pedagogical content knowledge, not
pedagogical content knowledge, not and? In other words, the pedagogical knowledge of
and? In other words, the pedagogical knowledge of mathematics, if you will, or knowledge
mathematics, if you will, or knowledge pedagogical of science or of the sciences
pedagogical of science or of the sciences experimental or philosophical or of
experimental or philosophical or of Arts, whatever they may be, right? uh, that's
Arts, whatever they may be, right? uh, that's which is what allows a teacher not to
which is what allows a teacher not to Yes, be able to share with the
Yes, be able to share with the your students and capable of engaging them.
your students and capable of engaging them. in a set of challenges, isn't it, of
in a set of challenges, isn't it, of so that they learn physics or
so that they learn physics or chemistry or the questions that arise
chemistry or the questions that arise in the arts or the questions that arise
in the arts or the questions that arise In physical education, it isn't, and so on.
In physical education, it isn't, and so on. outside. And therefore, what is evidently
outside. And therefore, what is evidently which brings us back to the question and
which brings us back to the question and From pedagogy, right? Oh, and it reminds us
From pedagogy, right? Oh, and it reminds us to one thing or another, right?
to one thing or another, right? What kind, what kind of teacher?
What kind, what kind of teacher? It's that these visions...
It's that these visions... Eh,
Eh, What type of teacher profile do we have?
What type of teacher profile do we have? We should have it, shouldn't we? We have to have
We should have it, shouldn't we? We have to have teachers who are proficient in these
teachers who are proficient in these knowledge and other things, I'm just...
knowledge and other things, I'm just... I'm referring to lixulma here, but there are others.
I'm referring to lixulma here, but there are others. knowledge, naturally,
knowledge, naturally, curricular knowledge, the knowledge
curricular knowledge, the knowledge of the psychological development of
of the psychological development of of young people and children, etc. But
of young people and children, etc. But joining me here, these three, ah, here the
joining me here, these three, ah, here the Pedagogical knowledge is a kind of
Pedagogical knowledge is a kind of spinal column, I don't know, one or
spinal column, I don't know, one or backbone, isn't it? eh da da
backbone, isn't it? eh da da professional identity of a teacher,
professional identity of a teacher, From his perspective on the matter, it is...
From his perspective on the matter, it is... starting from this pedagogical knowledge
starting from this pedagogical knowledge that he or she does not create the conditions for
that he or she does not create the conditions for so that everyone
so that everyone those who are in schools, all without
those who are in schools, all without exception,
exception, so they can learn and go so far
so they can learn and go so far as for their abilities, the
as for their abilities, the their motivations, etc., allow them,
their motivations, etc., allow them, it is not? And this naturally leads to visions.
it is not? And this naturally leads to visions. of substantially different teaching methods. AND
of substantially different teaching methods. AND Of course, this is linked to ideology.
Of course, this is linked to ideology. The issue is that ideology
The issue is that ideology It gives us broad guidelines,
It gives us broad guidelines, It gives us values, it gives us principles.
It gives us values, it gives us principles. It gives us a philosophy, if you'll allow me to...
It gives us a philosophy, if you'll allow me to... expression, of what school is, of
expression, of what school is, of What is the relationship between people within?
What is the relationship between people within? from school, what is the relationship
from school, what is the relationship among the teachers, among the professors
among the teachers, among the professors And the students, what is management?
And the students, what is management? For inclusion, for diversity. THE
For inclusion, for diversity. THE Management is absolutely fundamental, not
Management is absolutely fundamental, not and? Therefore, ideology gives us this.
and? Therefore, ideology gives us this. Everything, but it doesn't tell us how.
Everything, but it doesn't tell us how. It doesn't make us reflect on how...
It doesn't make us reflect on how... I teach this piece of music, what is it that
I teach this piece of music, what is it that I make this musical piece with these
I make this musical piece with these children or with these what do I
children or with these what do I I do this with this painting, with this picture.
I do this with this painting, with this picture. or with this sculpture
or with this sculpture so that my students can discuss what it is.
so that my students can discuss what it is. that exists and that they envision art.
that exists and that they envision art. In a certain way. It is not? Therefore, and
In a certain way. It is not? Therefore, and Ideology doesn't give us that.
Ideology doesn't give us that. I don't know if I'm being clear. Therefore,
I don't know if I'm being clear. Therefore, Ideology is extremely important.
Ideology is extremely important. because we will always, always have
because we will always, always have as has already been made very clear, both in
as has already been made very clear, both in David's intervention, they may not have
David's intervention, they may not have spoken as I am speaking,
spoken as I am speaking, We are naturally different and we have
We are naturally different and we have we are looking at things from
we are looking at things from different angles. But it's already been here
different angles. But it's already been here spoken by, by, by Dr. Líharia and and
spoken by, by, by Dr. Líharia and and By Professor David Rodrigues, right?
By Professor David Rodrigues, right? Well, there's, let's say, here,
Well, there's, let's say, here, an ideological component that cannot
an ideological component that cannot to cease to exist. And we will always have
to cease to exist. And we will always have tensions and we're going to have to deal with these
tensions and we're going to have to deal with these tensions because there are many good people who
tensions because there are many good people who thinks that PLNM doesn't matter,
thinks that PLNM doesn't matter, because there are many good people who think that
because there are many good people who think that children with special needs
children with special needs health professionals should be in hospitals or
health professionals should be in hospitals or They should be at the back in the rear,
They should be at the back in the rear, it is not? Of course I'm not the
it is not? Of course I'm not the absolutely obsessed defender of what
absolutely obsessed defender of what Whatever it is, right? But especially
Whatever it is, right? But especially Article 54 of Decree-Law 54, which is a large
Article 54 of Decree-Law 54, which is a large civilizational leap.
civilizational leap. From my point of view, decree law 54,
From my point of view, decree law 54, which is what defines the legal status
which is what defines the legal status of inclusion, right?
of inclusion, right? From my point of view, it's a leap.
From my point of view, it's a leap. civilizational, but naturally it could
civilizational, but naturally it could there will be some issues there that will have to
there will be some issues there that will have to to be thought about or rethought, because there are
to be thought about or rethought, because there are very complex factual situations in
very complex factual situations in schools with a certain type of
schools with a certain type of children, but most children,
children, but most children, notice,
notice, This is a real issue that we...
This is a real issue that we... We go to the field a lot. I am already there
We go to the field a lot. I am already there spend more time, right? I'm going to finish.
spend more time, right? I'm going to finish. We go very far into the field, we're in the know about what it is,
We go very far into the field, we're in the know about what it is, I have a group of people
I have a group of people extraordinary that goes, does studies of
extraordinary that goes, does studies of home in schools, etc. And there is a situation
home in schools, etc. And there is a situation in a school, in a room where the
in a school, in a room where the The teacher is very nice.
The teacher is very nice. naturally, because people don't
naturally, because people don't They do it on purpose, don't they? People do
They do it on purpose, don't they? People do due to lack of knowledge, they often do
due to lack of knowledge, they often do Out of ignorance, isn't it? And then, ah,
Out of ignorance, isn't it? And then, ah, These are my students and stuff, okay?
These are my students and stuff, okay? We have here these 17 or 18 students and so on and
We have here these 17 or 18 students and so on and then we have that one over there,
then we have that one over there, Wow, this is something
Wow, this is something after hearing what we have here
after hearing what we have here We heard, didn't we? It's a thing
We heard, didn't we? It's a thing Truly extraordinary, isn't it?
Truly extraordinary, isn't it? We have there the one who, well, uh,
We have there the one who, well, uh, ready. Now, this is indeed because
ready. Now, this is indeed because counterpoint,
counterpoint, We have been to schools where the boys and
We have been to schools where the boys and girls with special needs
girls with special needs health coexist,
health coexist, they coexist,
they coexist, They go to recess, they weren't going, but there was
They go to recess, they weren't going, but there was In a project, there was a teacher who
In a project, there was a teacher who Things got moving, didn't they? And they
Things got moving, didn't they? And they they started living with the boys
they started living with the boys so-called normal.
so-called normal. And the so-called normal boys won.
And the so-called normal boys won. immense with this experience and the others
immense with this experience and the others The boys laughed and smiled and felt
The boys laughed and smiled and felt Happy, aren't they? And so here, I
Happy, aren't they? And so here, I I don't have time, do I? Because there is here
I don't have time, do I? Because there is here a pedagogical issue. Pedagogy is
a pedagogical issue. Pedagogy is absolutely crucial because it is she who
absolutely crucial because it is she who She organizes us, she's the one who helps us to
She organizes us, she's the one who helps us to organizing the teaching, she is the one who helps us
organizing the teaching, she is the one who helps us in developing the curriculum, it is she who...
in developing the curriculum, it is she who... helps to understand the differences between
helps to understand the differences between people and, above all, it is she who
people and, above all, it is she who gives us the heuristic instruments that
gives us the heuristic instruments that They allow you to create environments that are
They allow you to create environments that are environments of joy, of learning,
environments of joy, of learning, of affection, of humanity, no. It's not, but
of affection, of humanity, no. It's not, but always very demanding. These are environments
always very demanding. These are environments necessarily demanding,
necessarily demanding, That's what Labor Lúcio was.
That's what Labor Lúcio was. He was a demanding, democratic man.
He was a demanding, democratic man. Progressive, but very demanding. And we
Progressive, but very demanding. And we we need a lot of demands in
we need a lot of demands in education, because this is a challenge
education, because this is a challenge civilizational,
civilizational, we are able to integrate everyone
we are able to integrate everyone those who arrive at school today. And who
those who arrive at school today. And who It allowed them to get to school.
It allowed them to get to school. Democracy. We are, I am
Democracy. We are, I am Let's talk only about Portugal now, but this is
Let's talk only about Portugal now, but this is similar to what happens in other
similar to what happens in other countries. It was in democratic countries that
countries. It was in democratic countries that I know that it is being built and is still being built.
I know that it is being built and is still being built. the democratic education systems in
the democratic education systems in Portugal. That's clear. What we
Portugal. That's clear. What we We walked all the way here, what were we?
We walked all the way here, what were we? capable of doing, which is recognized by
capable of doing, which is recognized by all national instances and
all national instances and Credible international organizations, not just empty promises.
Credible international organizations, not just empty promises. of the days, it's not the shouting in the newspapers
of the days, it's not the shouting in the newspapers or the shouting on television, it's not because
or the shouting on television, it's not because those who study things, because
those who study things, because those who care about
those who care about development of societies. All the
development of societies. All the They acknowledge it. We did a great job.
They acknowledge it. We did a great job. progress, but we always have a lot to do.
progress, but we always have a lot to do. To fight, always a lot to work for. AND
To fight, always a lot to work for. AND I believe this because
I believe this because For 50 years I have been privileged.
For 50 years I have been privileged. because I lived with many people with whom
because I lived with many people with whom I learned a great deal, didn't I? And I
I learned a great deal, didn't I? And I I learned
I learned what
what the teachers, the female teachers, the
the teachers, the female teachers, the Schools can make a difference.
Schools can make a difference. I emphasize the teachers, the female teachers,
I emphasize the teachers, the female teachers, all the educators, the technicians. Today,
all the educators, the technicians. Today, Today we are thankfully adding technicians.
Today we are thankfully adding technicians. in schools. There are still few, but they already exist.
in schools. There are still few, but they already exist. It didn't exist in my time, it didn't exist.
It didn't exist in my time, it didn't exist. Absolutely nothing, right? it's when I
Absolutely nothing, right? it's when I I started teaching, and that's one thing.
I started teaching, and that's one thing. relatively recent, psychologists,
relatively recent, psychologists, animation technicians, and mediators
animation technicians, and mediators linguistic and cultural, all of these are
linguistic and cultural, all of these are additions that, little by little, of
additions that, little by little, of In some way, public policies will
In some way, public policies will Introducing it in schools. And therefore,
Introducing it in schools. And therefore, all these people can do the
all these people can do the difference. I am underlining this.
difference. I am underlining this. why? because there are people here
why? because there are people here young, very young, and most of them are
young, very young, and most of them are Young, but the problem is theirs. As it says
Young, but the problem is theirs. As it says There's David Rodrigues, now the least
There's David Rodrigues, now the least Young people like me, uh, still still
Young people like me, uh, still still They remember the great debates and what
They remember the great debates and what They studied about Basis Bernstein or
They studied about Basis Bernstein or Passeron. And even the the the
Passeron. And even the the the from the evaluation, the Pernu Pernu Lidalal and
from the evaluation, the Pernu Pernu Lidalal and other European thinkers
other European thinkers That's not true, but there was.
That's not true, but there was. especially from a group of
especially from a group of thinkers here in Europe
thinkers here in Europe which was simultaneous, it was more than 50 years ago.
which was simultaneous, it was more than 50 years ago. years, which was simultaneous with the report
years, which was simultaneous with the report Colman in the United States, in which one of the
Colman in the United States, in which one of the Colman was a sociology professor at
Colman was a sociology professor at University of Chicago, a large
University of Chicago, a large The university, even today, is a great institution.
The university, even today, is a great institution. university. And Colman did a study.
university. And Colman did a study. In conclusion, I'm not going, I'm not going.
In conclusion, I'm not going, I'm not going. I don't even have time to massacre them.
I don't even have time to massacre them. where the conclusion was that schools did not
where the conclusion was that schools did not They make all the difference. This gave rise to,
They make all the difference. This gave rise to, Schools don't make a difference. To the
Schools don't make a difference. To the schools simply reproduce the
schools simply reproduce the social inequalities,
social inequalities, it is not? And this is what we have to do
it is not? And this is what we have to do to ask questions when we enter a school,
to ask questions when we enter a school, when we decide to become teachers, when
when we decide to become teachers, when We are teachers. Are we...
We are teachers. Are we... Will it make a difference or not? Or we are
Will it make a difference or not? Or we are simply contributing to
simply contributing to reproduce the social inequalities that
reproduce the social inequalities that They still persist in societies.
They still persist in societies. Democratic, right? I have to
Democratic, right? I have to to finish.
to finish. And that's it.
And that's it. And to finish,
And to finish, uh, and therefore, h,
uh, and therefore, h, They said that, that they didn't do it.
They said that, that they didn't do it. difference, but then Basilbernstein,
difference, but then Basilbernstein, and I'll finish quickly, the
and I'll finish quickly, the Basilbernstein wrote something
Basilbernstein wrote something Like this.
Like this. Well, if we have them, the schools can't
Well, if we have them, the schools can't doing it doesn't make a difference, but if
doing it doesn't make a difference, but if us
us we have, if people have developed
we have, if people have developed a certain view of pedagogy,
a certain view of pedagogy, if people develop a certain
if people develop a certain resume overview and whether people
resume overview and whether people developing a certain view of
developing a certain view of evaluation, what is the triangle that
evaluation, what is the triangle that It has been with me for 50 years, I crush the
It has been with me for 50 years, I crush the people with this triangle.
people with this triangle. There's been a lot of time. Those who me
There's been a lot of time. Those who me They already heard, they already know, they already know before.
They already heard, they already know, they already know before. that I never stop talking
that I never stop talking in this, regardless of the issue that
in this, regardless of the issue that it will address, because it's something that
it will address, because it's something that guided my academic life and
guided my academic life and professional. Therefore, he said
professional. Therefore, he said Bernstein, if we have another
Bernstein, if we have another a vision of each of these domains of
a vision of each of these domains of knowledge, then schools will be able to
knowledge, then schools will be able to to make a difference. And I believe, I am
to make a difference. And I believe, I am of those perhaps naive or cunning
of those perhaps naive or cunning "Papudo," as we used to say in my hometown,
"Papudo," as we used to say in my hometown, I'm a big-mouthed little engineer who believes
I'm a big-mouthed little engineer who believes In that. Do you believe that we, those who
In that. Do you believe that we, those who are in this room and many others like
are in this room and many others like We are capable of making a difference.
We are capable of making a difference. to achieve this, we must combine an ideology.
to achieve this, we must combine an ideology. Open, progressive, democratic, isn't it?
Open, progressive, democratic, isn't it? with
with one
one a vision
a vision It's about pedagogy.
It's about pedagogy. curriculum and evaluation
curriculum and evaluation that contributes to inclusion being
that contributes to inclusion being a reality, so that everyone can
a reality, so that everyone can learn according to your
learn according to your capabilities. And that's all for now. Very
capabilities. And that's all for now. Very thanks.
thanks. [applause]
Well, thank you very much, Professor Domingos. Thank you all very much. We will pass
Thank you all very much. We will pass The floor, then, is now open to the audience.
The floor, then, is now open to the audience. We still have,
We still have, time and we agreed uh at this table
time and we agreed uh at this table speak less so I can listen to you and
speak less so I can listen to you and so that we can be.
He had asked to speak here. First, teacher. Just a moment, just
First, teacher. Just a moment, just one moment.
one moment. Hello, good morning to everyone present.
Hello, good morning to everyone present. I am Francisco Júnior, I am a student of
I am Francisco Júnior, I am a student of Master's degree from the University of Évora,
Master's degree from the University of Évora, sandwich master's program, and I am also
sandwich master's program, and I am also university employee, I think as
university employee, I think as You call here, employee of
You call here, employee of University of the State of Rio Grande
University of the State of Rio Grande North, in Brazil. And firstly
North, in Brazil. And firstly I would like to congratulate the panel for
I would like to congratulate the panel for Excellent explanations.
Excellent explanations. And the topic of my research is
And the topic of my research is recognition and inclusion of people with
recognition and inclusion of people with shortcomings of public higher education
shortcomings of public higher education in Brazil and in Portugal. And then I am
in Brazil and in Portugal. And then I am conducting a case study on the subject
conducting a case study on the subject University of Évora and at the University
University of Évora and at the University from the State of Rio Grande do Norte, which
from the State of Rio Grande do Norte, which where I study and work as a civil servant. So the
where I study and work as a civil servant. So the My question would be regarding which...
My question would be regarding which... These are the main challenges faced.
These are the main challenges faced. to achieve the inclusion of people with
to achieve the inclusion of people with deficiency? And that's when I refer to
deficiency? And that's when I refer to inclusion, not just access, but also to
inclusion, not just access, but also to staying so that no one incurs
staying so that no one incurs guarantee access to university and
guarantee access to university and Then comes school dropout.
Then comes school dropout. So, that's why I'm referring to access and
So, that's why I'm referring to access and permanence of people with disabilities
permanence of people with disabilities in public higher education in Portugal.
in public higher education in Portugal. And once again, thank you very much.
And once again, thank you very much. Very good. Maybe we do.
Very good. Maybe we do. the questions. Exactly. We make three
the questions. Exactly. We make three questions. AND
Hello, I'm Camila Munhai, a teacher at UNESP of Marília, São Paulo, Brazil. Eh,
UNESP of Marília, São Paulo, Brazil. Eh, I wanted to thank you first for listening to them,
I wanted to thank you first for listening to them, right? An honor, both today and yesterday. I just don't
right? An honor, both today and yesterday. I just don't I don't know if I'll leave more desperate because I see
I don't know if I'll leave more desperate because I see that we have faced many problems
that we have faced many problems They're similar, aren't they? It's an attack on rights.
They're similar, aren't they? It's an attack on rights. humans, democracy and everything else,
humans, democracy and everything else, But I'll try to be hopeful, okay?
But I'll try to be hopeful, okay? Professor, it's with people who are
Professor, it's with people who are fighting the same battles there thinking and
fighting the same battles there thinking and debating such important things. Then,
debating such important things. Then, I thank. I wanted to ask a question.
I thank. I wanted to ask a question. For Professor Lilia. Yeah, us
For Professor Lilia. Yeah, us We are facing a very serious problem, uh,
We are facing a very serious problem, uh, I think he's also global with
I think he's also global with in relation to mental health. Eh,
in relation to mental health. Eh, Specifically in our city, we
Specifically in our city, we It has high rates of youth suicide.
It has high rates of youth suicide. Uh, I wanted to know a little more about that.
Uh, I wanted to know a little more about that. mental health program or other
mental health program or other stocks, right? Well, because what we have
stocks, right? Well, because what we have often seen as a response to
often seen as a response to illness among young people, suffering
illness among young people, suffering In terms of mental health, it's simply overmedicalization.
In terms of mental health, it's simply overmedicalization. including children. Yeah, so I wanted
including children. Yeah, so I wanted to know about other actions, right, in a
to know about other actions, right, in a A more holistic perspective that views health.
A more holistic perspective that views health. mental health, also as prevention and promotion.
mental health, also as prevention and promotion. Quality of life, right, that's what I think.
Quality of life, right, that's what I think. That's what we should do.
That's what we should do. Thanks.
Good morning. My name is Luciarda, I am researcher and professor at this institution.
researcher and professor at this institution. First of all, thank you for the
First of all, thank you for the all interventions.
all interventions. And my question goes in the direction of the new
And my question goes in the direction of the new type of integration and inclusion
type of integration and inclusion mentioned by the panel, which concerns
mentioned by the panel, which concerns an integration
an integration linguistic, cultural, ethnic, therefore
linguistic, cultural, ethnic, therefore we have been following along, both here and in this
we have been following along, both here and in this university, whether in others with whom
university, whether in others with whom We've been talking, it's a new type of
We've been talking, it's a new type of needs that exist. And when we
needs that exist. And when we we think
we think in special educational needs,
in special educational needs, I think that's a lot, not being me.
I think that's a lot, not being me. absolutely nothing from that area and not
absolutely nothing from that area and not knowing absolutely nothing about this area,
knowing absolutely nothing about this area, But I think it's a type of inclusion that's more...
But I think it's a type of inclusion that's more... easy to do, because there is some
easy to do, because there is some indication, is there any guidance, we
indication, is there any guidance, we We know what it's about. When we
We know what it's about. When we We are talking about the inclusion of young people.
We are talking about the inclusion of young people. children and young people, especially, t me
children and young people, especially, t me referring to higher education, which because it does not
referring to higher education, which because it does not to have the Portuguese language as your language.
to have the Portuguese language as your language. maternal,
maternal, The world comes to you in a different way. THE
The world comes to you in a different way. THE our way of looking at the world, of
our way of looking at the world, of to interpret the world, to feel
to interpret the world, to feel culturally, to understand
culturally, to understand Culturally, it is strictly linked.
Culturally, it is strictly linked. to our native language. And even when
to our native language. And even when we learned another language, then
we learned another language, then The ideas are not the same. Then,
The ideas are not the same. Then, I'd like to hear from the table how that works.
I'd like to hear from the table how that works. It has been discussed, what is it that
It has been discussed, what is it that What have you been thinking and doing in light of this?
What have you been thinking and doing in light of this? new reality. I
new reality. I I would also like to make a brief
I would also like to make a brief As a master's student, I'm asking this question.
As a master's student, I'm asking this question. from the Lusófona University house,
from the Lusófona University house, special education, coordinated by
special education, coordinated by dear teacher Luzia and the privilege
dear teacher Luzia and the privilege to have Professor David as a teacher,
to have Professor David as a teacher, who gave us an exceptional lesson,
who gave us an exceptional lesson, inclusive. Thank you very much, professor. Already
inclusive. Thank you very much, professor. Already I would also like to thank you for the lecture that you gave.
I would also like to thank you for the lecture that you gave. sir also spoke at the opening, saying
sir also spoke at the opening, saying with respect to inclusive education, a
with respect to inclusive education, a rights and duties of all. Very
rights and duties of all. Very Thank you, professor, for mentioning...
Thank you, professor, for mentioning... also regarding the importance of
also regarding the importance of integration
integration and inclusion. I would like you to
and inclusion. I would like you to also share a little more about
also share a little more about Those who arrived later couldn't.
Those who arrived later couldn't. to have that privilege. So good to hear the
to have that privilege. So good to hear the Sir, speak about topics that also...
Sir, speak about topics that also... important issues such as integration and inclusion
important issues such as integration and inclusion mentioned here by our colleague
mentioned here by our colleague also. And I'd also like to add a
also. And I'd also like to add a direct question for Professor Lília and
direct question for Professor Lília and I also want to thank the teacher for
I also want to thank the teacher for importance of the topic brought up here and
importance of the topic brought up here and for more than 37 years also
for more than 37 years also experience. The question is: teacher,
experience. The question is: teacher, how and in what way, what does it do?
how and in what way, what does it do? faculty of letters to train
faculty of letters to train teachers and get to know them? And how do they deal with it?
teachers and get to know them? And how do they deal with it? with teachers who don't want to change
with teachers who don't want to change Why is a room not adapted for a change?
Why is a room not adapted for a change? So, just as it shocked you, it shocked me.
So, just as it shocked you, it shocked me. also as a student, to think and reflect on whether
also as a student, to think and reflect on whether if it were a classmate of mine in
if it were a classmate of mine in university. This brings us here.
university. This brings us here. reflection and also mention the teacher
reflection and also mention the teacher Sundays. I am very grateful for your comment.
Sundays. I am very grateful for your comment. Regarding pedagogy being so crucial, then...
Regarding pedagogy being so crucial, then... as well as curriculum and evaluation. AND
as well as curriculum and evaluation. AND Thank you very much for the opportunity.
Very well, we can move on to the for the answers now or for
for the answers now or for comments. Is there one more person?
comments. Is there one more person? Yes. Okay. Who is the person? Please,
Yes. Okay. Who is the person? Please, You can raise your hand.
You can raise your hand. Francisco is asking the false
Francisco is asking the false testimony.
Ah, okay. There's nobody here.
There's nobody here. Okay, there's nobody here. Then we moved on
Okay, there's nobody here. Then we moved on to the comments from the table. Who wants
to the comments from the table. Who wants to start?
Well, first of all, thank you very much for your questions. I'll try to answer the
your questions. I'll try to answer the as concise as possible, taking into account
as concise as possible, taking into account Because it could be used for another conference.
Because it could be used for another conference. Oh, sorry, that would be for someone else.
Oh, sorry, that would be for someone else. conference. Regarding the challenges and
conference. Regarding the challenges and Inclusion: how do we address it? I
Inclusion: how do we address it? I I'm going to talk about the experience I have in
I'm going to talk about the experience I have in Faculty of Letters. whenever we
Faculty of Letters. whenever we we are contacted or we identify a
we are contacted or we identify a student, because my service that
student, because my service that coordeno eh encompasses the entire course of
coordeno eh encompasses the entire course of student, that is, it is a service that goes to
student, that is, it is a service that goes to to the fairs of eh dissemination of the offer
to the fairs of eh dissemination of the offer formative to spread our our
formative to spread our our service in the sense of training
service in the sense of training teachers and students
teachers and students interested. It is the student who is the service.
interested. It is the student who is the service. that welcomes, that energizes all
that welcomes, that energizes all welcoming activities for all
welcoming activities for all students, because our perspective is not
students, because our perspective is not To create a separate program, is to include
To create a separate program, is to include in and during this phase, it is also in this
in and during this phase, it is also in this phase that we are uh that are uh
phase that we are uh that are uh We contacted some of the students, even
We contacted some of the students, even even before they know that there is one
even before they know that there is one student status with special needs
student status with special needs specific. What do we do next?
specific. What do we do next? If it's a situation where we have to
If it's a situation where we have to Do we need to serve as firefighters, or do we need to act now?
Do we need to serve as firefighters, or do we need to act now? We do that immediately.
We do that immediately. immediately an interview with the student
immediately an interview with the student and we tried to find out what they are...
and we tried to find out what they are... What do you need help with? What is it that...?
What do you need help with? What is it that...? We have to change the environment, if it is
We have to change the environment, if it is that we have to change right there in that
that we have to change right there in that phase. Then there's the whole process of...
phase. Then there's the whole process of... of the student with special needs status
of the student with special needs status specific educational aspects and then there is a
specific educational aspects and then there is a communication to teachers. Normally,
communication to teachers. Normally, We have measures that are transversal,
We have measures that are transversal, What are the teachers already doing?
What are the teachers already doing? accustomed to and that we do not have for that
accustomed to and that we do not have for that I'm contacting them. or else if there is
I'm contacting them. or else if there is If they have any questions, they can contact us or
If they have any questions, they can contact us or So, if there are cases where there is indeed...
So, if there are cases where there is indeed... a greater sensitivity, so we try
a greater sensitivity, so we try always talking to each teacher is or
always talking to each teacher is or So now let's move on to a new methodology.
So now let's move on to a new methodology. that is very important to us that
that is very important to us that It's about talking to all the teachers who already...
It's about talking to all the teachers who already... so that student is for us to exchange.
so that student is for us to exchange. experiences and sometimes with the student and
experiences and sometimes with the student and family. It always depends a lot. I.e,
family. It always depends a lot. I.e, For us, it's the other, each one of us is the other.
For us, it's the other, each one of us is the other. Each case is different. No, no, no
Each case is different. No, no, no we have, it has a lot to do with the person and
we have, it has a lot to do with the person and Above all, if the environment, if it is lacking
Above all, if the environment, if it is lacking something in our environment that we have
something in our environment that we have adapting is always the goal.
adapting is always the goal. be for everyone. In other words, if it is lacking...
be for everyone. In other words, if it is lacking... this person, we have to do it in a
this person, we have to do it in a A perspective for everyone. Regarding health
A perspective for everyone. Regarding health mental,
mental, It's the service, from that perspective, we
It's the service, from that perspective, we we have, first of all, in terms
we have, first of all, in terms Nationally, there is the mental health program.
Nationally, there is the mental health program. what it was and what the schools of education
what it was and what the schools of education superior with were able to reinforce the
superior with were able to reinforce the psychology services and specifically
psychology services and specifically the assignment, the government gave the assignment
the assignment, the government gave the assignment of psychological checks that students
of psychological checks that students They could not only enjoy it inside, in this
They could not only enjoy it inside, in this If not within the university, but in
If not within the university, but in apart from that, with psychologists who adhered to
apart from that, with psychologists who adhered to program. Why is this? Why
program. Why is this? Why It effectively is, and there are no resources.
It effectively is, and there are no resources. sufficient. We have a psychologist.
sufficient. We have a psychologist. At the clinic, we have one psychologist, two
At the clinic, we have one psychologist, two psychologists, two clinical psychologists and
psychologists, two clinical psychologists and do eh e um educativo.
do eh e um educativo. Well, that's not enough because
Well, that's not enough because That's exactly what it says. Therefore, we
That's exactly what it says. Therefore, we We also have a national program.
We also have a national program. for the prevention of mental health issues, which
for the prevention of mental health issues, which It is available through the direction-gal
It is available through the direction-gal higher education and even tells us which
higher education and even tells us which The steps guide our intervention in
The steps guide our intervention in our schools and talks a lot about the issue
our schools and talks a lot about the issue prevention measures. What is it that we
prevention measures. What is it that we What are we planning for next week? Let's go
What are we planning for next week? Let's go Doing mental health week is in
Doing mental health week is in college bringing in specialists.
college bringing in specialists. We also have support consultations.
We also have support consultations. psychological, which we will now have two
psychological, which we will now have two modalities in support is punctual, one
modalities in support is punctual, one the situation that the teacher faced in
the situation that the teacher faced in classroom and needs a
classroom and needs a guidance from our psychologist
guidance from our psychologist Or, well, we have this moment, right?
Or, well, we have this moment, right? properly a consultation, it is a moment
properly a consultation, it is a moment where is the specialist there who can
where is the specialist there who can to guide the teacher's practice that
to guide the teacher's practice that he thought that student wasn't there
he thought that student wasn't there good. Okay, so we have this situation that
good. Okay, so we have this situation that we will have now and the work in
we will have now and the work in The group at this moment consists of the
The group at this moment consists of the initiatives that we have, because it's like you
initiatives that we have, because it's like you I mean, we're even fortunate enough to work with...
I mean, we're even fortunate enough to work with... A multidisciplinary team, right? 37
A multidisciplinary team, right? 37 years of experience and a college degree with
years of experience and a college degree with a sensitive approach to these issues
a sensitive approach to these issues It led to us having this team.
It led to us having this team. But there are indeed schools that don't do that.
But there are indeed schools that don't do that. It happens and it's more complicated in relation to
It happens and it's more complicated in relation to the questions are from
the questions are from of students who do not master the language
of students who do not master the language Portuguese, we have the experience,
Portuguese, we have the experience, At this moment, we begin working with
At this moment, we begin working with the students come from Paulo and we have two
the students come from Paulo and we have two programs. We have the Integrate program. THE
programs. We have the Integrate program. THE The Integrate program is a program of
The Integrate program is a program of welcoming these students in which we...
welcoming these students in which we... it is also a
it is also a A project that promotes peer-to-peer work.
A project that promotes peer-to-peer work. We work with the Center for Studies
We work with the Center for Studies Africans in the sense of helping us to
Africans in the sense of helping us to to identify the main difficulties
to identify the main difficulties that these students have. This program is
that these students have. This program is It can be done in a group or individually.
It can be done in a group or individually. and it essentially gives not only support in
and it essentially gives not only support in in the use of technologies, in the use of
in the use of technologies, in the use of tools in Moodle, in Fénix, are
tools in Moodle, in Fénix, are tools that students have to provide and
tools that students have to provide and often also some help in the
often also some help in the writing papers, in the interpretation
writing papers, in the interpretation of some texts that fail
of some texts that fail Okay, I understand. This is the program
Okay, I understand. This is the program that we have. we have a different reality and
that we have. we have a different reality and who are the international students
who are the international students But those that aren't there, that reach us and
But those that aren't there, that reach us and that are not integrated into programs of
that are not integrated into programs of Mobility, students coming from Pakistan
Mobility, students coming from Pakistan or that essentially come to do
or that essentially come to do second cycle, also Brazilian students
second cycle, also Brazilian students who need support to get to know a
who need support to get to know a There's not much space. This program will be,
There's not much space. This program will be, In other words, yes, we're going to reinforce the
In other words, yes, we're going to reinforce the The program integrates with this aspect, but
The program integrates with this aspect, but even always in this line of having, not
even always in this line of having, not only us, because we are what we are many
only us, because we are what we are many Sometimes, despite trying to get out of
Sometimes, despite trying to get out of In the office, we did not experience that.
In the office, we did not experience that. students, we don't feel what it is that they
students, we don't feel what it is that they They feel it. And it is along this line, that very line of
They feel it. And it is along this line, that very line of Seeing through others what we also bring.
Seeing through others what we also bring. students with similar experiences. AND
students with similar experiences. AND For this purpose we have a program,
For this purpose we have a program, I'm speaking quickly because I have time.
I'm speaking quickly because I have time. There's a lot to say, but we have a program of
There's a lot to say, but we have a program of college scholarships that we pay for
college scholarships that we pay for some scholarship recipients to join this
some scholarship recipients to join this program and some is ready, exactly
program and some is ready, exactly therefore. And this year we also managed to
therefore. And this year we also managed to include students in our tasks, a
include students in our tasks, a two students, one from Pakistan and the other already
two students, one from Pakistan and the other already I don't remember, but they don't master the
I don't remember, but they don't master the Portuguese language, but we managed to
Portuguese language, but we managed to they collaborated with us in activities
they collaborated with us in activities like the other colleagues. Therefore, this
like the other colleagues. Therefore, this This year is a successful year. In this respect,
This year is a successful year. In this respect, I feel quite happy about that, because
I feel quite happy about that, because having managed to mobilize my
having managed to mobilize my colleagues, uh, to do because it's always a
colleagues, uh, to do because it's always a additional effort from the other who has their
additional effort from the other who has their All regular work, right? ask
All regular work, right? ask someone to help the person who doesn't have
someone to help the person who doesn't have It's just another one, it adds more work. Put
It's just another one, it adds more work. Put That's always a great joy to know.
That's always a great joy to know. that that colleague is available
that that colleague is available with us to help these students to
with us to help these students to to have better integration.
to have better integration. I think I've answered everything. I don't know.
I think I've answered everything. I don't know. Thank you very much. Hey.
Thank you very much. Hey. Thank you very much,
Professor Domingos. In telegraphic form, sorry.
sorry. We're past the deadline.
We're past the deadline. as telegraphically as possible.
as telegraphically as possible. Well, and thinking a bit about the first one
Well, and thinking a bit about the first one The question that was formulated,
The question that was formulated, Well, I have to reaffirm here and
Well, I have to reaffirm here and the three, the three domains of
the three, the three domains of knowledge that seems fundamental to me
knowledge that seems fundamental to me and therefore there is something to develop,
and therefore there is something to develop, therefore a certain view of
therefore a certain view of curriculum at any level of
curriculum at any level of Education, right?
Education, right? And, and here, finally, forgive me for the...
And, and here, finally, forgive me for the... Simplicity, but at its core, the discussion.
Simplicity, but at its core, the discussion. It has to do with the curriculum. It's a thing
It has to do with the curriculum. It's a thing something that is said, that is dictated, or is a thing
something that is said, that is dictated, or is a thing That's life, isn't it? which helps us to
That's life, isn't it? which helps us to think,
think, Because it's a knowledge project. AND
Because it's a knowledge project. AND a knowledge project and therefore,
a knowledge project and therefore, It is something that challenges us, that...
It is something that challenges us, that... builds, that is rebuilt, that is
builds, that is rebuilt, that is adapts and forces us to formulate
adapts and forces us to formulate conjectures and to search and analyze
conjectures and to search and analyze these conjectures. Therefore, this, in
these conjectures. Therefore, this, in In essence, this is a discussion that...
In essence, this is a discussion that... It seems that we normally have some
It seems that we normally have some carelessness in this discussion so
carelessness in this discussion so Relevant, isn't it? No, the other one is that in
Relevant, isn't it? No, the other one is that in In terms of evaluation, we have to
In terms of evaluation, we have to to discuss and reflect on the issue of
to discuss and reflect on the issue of assessment. So now with this with the
assessment. So now with this with the artificial intelligence I have had the
artificial intelligence I have had the privilege of hearing things
privilege of hearing things extraordinary actions on the part of
extraordinary actions on the part of teachers. there are days num num num
teachers. there are days num num num a seminar that Kné gave, a
a seminar that Kné gave, a teacher
teacher That's because this is a language teacher.
That's because this is a language teacher. Portuguese
Portuguese That would excite anyone, but
That would excite anyone, but positive enthusiasm
positive enthusiasm it is not? Now, the problem is with what
it is not? Now, the problem is with what The head is what a person will deal with.
The head is what a person will deal with. artificial intelligence? with what with what
artificial intelligence? with what with what pedagogical head, as I said the other day,
pedagogical head, as I said the other day, Well, it's a somewhat strange term, but
Well, it's a somewhat strange term, but with what pedagogical mindset, with what
with what pedagogical mindset, with what The curriculum is what I'm going to tackle.
The curriculum is what I'm going to tackle. the challenge of technologies or the challenge
the challenge of technologies or the challenge Artificial intelligence?
Artificial intelligence? Because it's necessary to have a certain understanding.
Because it's necessary to have a certain understanding. evaluation
evaluation to ask the GPT chat to analyze
to ask the GPT chat to analyze that analyze the essays that I sent that
that analyze the essays that I sent that I asked the students to do it for me, that
I asked the students to do it for me, that That's what that professor of
That's what that professor of Portuguese did it. He asked the students for a
Portuguese did it. He asked the students for a I'm rehearsing because people say, "Oh,
I'm rehearsing because people say, "Oh, "Now I'm going to stop writing." Well, I will.
"Now I'm going to stop writing." Well, I will. We will stop writing if we don't act.
We will stop writing if we don't act. if we are not beings
if we are not beings thoughtful as we are, intellectuals as
thoughtful as we are, intellectuals as We are, aren't we? And therefore, I cannot.
We are, aren't we? And therefore, I cannot. take time, it has to be telegraphic,
take time, it has to be telegraphic, But the real question here is...
But the real question here is... let's think
let's think if evaluation is something that has as
if evaluation is something that has as fundamental objective or as an object
fundamental objective or as an object fundamental is the classification or does it have
fundamental is the classification or does it have with the fundamental objective of improving and
with the fundamental objective of improving and quality of our work. And when
quality of our work. And when I mean "our," I'm being Freirean, if I...
I mean "our," I'm being Freirean, if I... allow this boldness, that is,
allow this boldness, that is, Ours, mine and the students'. In other words, we are
Ours, mine and the students'. In other words, we are the two that we are looking at
the two that we are looking at quality of our work and that
quality of our work and that We learn from our mistakes and that
We learn from our mistakes and that We need to reformulate. Or else we said:
We need to reformulate. Or else we said: "Ah, man, we did a great job, man,
"Ah, man, we did a great job, man, Let's move forward, we can advance."
Let's move forward, we can advance." Therefore, we have to consider what mindset to use.
Therefore, we have to consider what mindset to use. It is through evaluative assessment that we will...
It is through evaluative assessment that we will... Regarding the issues of retaining students, it
Regarding the issues of retaining students, it in higher education, admit them and
in higher education, admit them and then retain them. And finally
then retain them. And finally It's a matter of thinking about what.
It's a matter of thinking about what. It is pedagogy that informs us, isn't it? the
It is pedagogy that informs us, isn't it? the António Sérgio, who was a great
António Sérgio, who was a great Portuguese philosopher, a great man, a
Portuguese philosopher, a great man, a to be absolutely extraordinary, like
to be absolutely extraordinary, like Like Laborinho Lúcio, I don't want to.
Like Laborinho Lúcio, I don't want to. to be here making unfair comparisons,
to be here making unfair comparisons, But it's a different Portuguese person, isn't it? He said
But it's a different Portuguese person, isn't it? He said that from Paris, when he was in exile,
that from Paris, when he was in exile, I was writing to Portugal for a friend and
I was writing to Portugal for a friend and He said: "I have to go to Portugal to
He said: "I have to go to Portugal to I'll only return to Portugal when there is...
I'll only return to Portugal when there is... conditions for making the revolution
conditions for making the revolution "pedagogical". The true revolution.
"pedagogical". The true revolution. This was said by António Sérgio in
This was said by António Sérgio in 19th century, right? And now that I am
19th century, right? And now that I am to quote Portuguese people, but I've also quoted them before.
to quote Portuguese people, but I've also quoted them before. A Brazilian, Paulo Freire, is already here.
A Brazilian, Paulo Freire, is already here. But now, another Portuguese person that I
But now, another Portuguese person that I I admire you very much, and that's where I'll end.
I admire you very much, and that's where I'll end. Sebastião da Gama. I apologize to
Sebastião da Gama. I apologize to those who have already heard me, but I don't...
those who have already heard me, but I don't... I'm tired of invoking Sebastião da Gama,
I'm tired of invoking Sebastião da Gama, because Sebastião da Gama, for now, I
because Sebastião da Gama, for now, I That was a great, great story.
That was a great, great story. I'm not going to tell that story, I'm just going to
I'm not going to tell that story, I'm just going to To say the following, he was doing the
To say the following, he was doing the During his internship, he was a Portuguese teacher.
During his internship, he was a Portuguese teacher. a great educator, a tremendous educator,
a great educator, a tremendous educator, A great poet and a great human being.
A great poet and a great human being. and he was doing his internship at
and he was doing his internship at Veigabeirão commercial school
Veigabeirão commercial school about 80 years ago, 70 and
about 80 years ago, 70 and so many years ago. And he
so many years ago. And he asks the students to do it.
asks the students to do it. to develop a task. He says: "You
to develop a task. He says: "You "Now they're going to do this and that." And there is a
"Now they're going to do this and that." And there is a A young man asks him: "Professor, this
A young man asks him: "Professor, this Is this for the grade?
Is this for the grade? And almost 80 years ago, the answer from
And almost 80 years ago, the answer from The enormous Sebastian of Gama was: "No, that
The enormous Sebastian of Gama was: "No, that "It's for learning."
"It's for learning." And here we have a vision, a man.
And here we have a vision, a man. visionary, just like Freir was. THE
visionary, just like Freir was. THE Freir, that which I know in writing
Freir, that which I know in writing His age is 74, when he was in Chile...
His age is 74, when he was in Chile... to carry out literacy campaigns, which
to carry out literacy campaigns, which who formulated his idea of evaluation.
who formulated his idea of evaluation. And we really need to wrap this up. Tell me
And we really need to wrap this up. Tell me I'm closing.
only. Just to say that in addition from that group in the Integrate program, we
from that group in the Integrate program, we We also have a language course.
We also have a language course. Portuguese for these students,
Portuguese for these students, specifically for them. And there is little
specifically for them. And there is little We forgot to mention. Thanks.
We forgot to mention. Thanks. One word?
One word? I don't think so.
I don't think so. No. Okay. So, we're really done here.
No. Okay. So, we're really done here. here. Thank you very much. We'll be back at 2 PM.
here. Thank you very much. We'll be back at 2 PM. in the afternoon. At 2 pm we are all
in the afternoon. At 2 pm we are all Back here. Thank you very much.
Back here. Thank you very much. [applause]
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Well, good afternoon. Are you listening to me? [music] good? Let's begin. No
[music] good? Let's begin. No Some schoolgirls are joining,
Some schoolgirls are joining, pupils, students, researchers.
pupils, students, researchers. Let's go inside so we can begin.
Let's go inside so we can begin. So, good afternoon again everyone and
So, good afternoon again everyone and to all. It is with great satisfaction that
to all. It is with great satisfaction that We begin the fourth round table discussion.
We begin the fourth round table discussion. dedicated to the topic of human rights
dedicated to the topic of human rights fundamentals and social intervention. This
fundamentals and social intervention. This The fourth round table proposes a reflection.
The fourth round table proposes a reflection. Critique of the role of intervention
Critique of the role of intervention social and social service in the promotion and
social and social service in the promotion and defending human rights in a context
defending human rights in a context marked by profound inequalities,
marked by profound inequalities, migratory challenges, new forms of
migratory challenges, new forms of exclusion and so many other things. And the
exclusion and so many other things. And the The debate, without a doubt, seeks to question
The debate, without a doubt, seeks to question practices, models, paradigms, pointing
practices, models, paradigms, pointing paths to more social action
paths to more social action ethical, more participatory, more
ethical, more participatory, more transformative and more humane. And this is,
transformative and more humane. And this is, without a doubt, it has been throughout this,
without a doubt, it has been throughout this, since yesterday, this morning, and we're going
since yesterday, this morning, and we're going to continue this afternoon. It has been a
to continue this afternoon. It has been a a meeting place, above all, of
a meeting place, above all, of thought, but also dialogue in
thought, but also dialogue in above all, it becomes a question
above all, it becomes a question central. and essential, which is how
central. and essential, which is how we can, through our practice
we can, through our practice professional and academic,
professional and academic, to affirm human rights as the central principle.
to affirm human rights as the central principle. structuring element of social intervention. And it is
structuring element of social intervention. And it is It's curious that both yesterday and today...
It's curious that both yesterday and today... Good morning, once again, how do you look?
Good morning, once again, how do you look? For the program, it's very rich because
For the program, it's very rich because This effectively refers to human rights.
This effectively refers to human rights. We are all impregnated with it, that is to say,
We are all impregnated with it, that is to say, We are all involved and we are all
We are all involved and we are all responsible for providing this
responsible for providing this human rights in our daily lives
human rights in our daily lives areas where we are working, but
areas where we are working, but in what we are, in what we are as
in what we are, in what we are as people, as citizens.
people, as citizens. And the truth is that we live in times of
And the truth is that we live in times of complexity,
complexity, uncertain, marked by inequalities
uncertain, marked by inequalities persistent, through new forms of
persistent, through new forms of vulnerability and profound
vulnerability and profound social transformations. And so it is,
social transformations. And so it is, It is urgent to rethink not only models, but
It is urgent to rethink not only models, but practices and so many other dimensions in
practices and so many other dimensions in the way we work, but also the
the way we work, but also the The ethical and political meaning of our actions.
The ethical and political meaning of our actions. And we have it with us now at this moment.
And we have it with us now at this moment. Here on my right are two guests.
Here on my right are two guests. of excellence whose paths and
of excellence whose paths and Reflections inspire us to look at the service.
Reflections inspire us to look at the service. social and social intervention with
social and social intervention with renewed awareness and commitment.
renewed awareness and commitment. Dr. Joaquina Madeira, president of
Dr. Joaquina Madeira, president of leadership of the European Anti-Poverty Network is
leadership of the European Anti-Poverty Network is Bachelor's degree in social work. Well, it has
Bachelor's degree in social work. Well, it has a long resume,
a long resume, I'll just say, it's all important and,
I'll just say, it's all important and, Therefore, it is very difficult to find here.
Therefore, it is very difficult to find here. here. But anyway, in this
here. But anyway, in this currently and is president of the board of directors of
currently and is president of the board of directors of European Anti-Poverty Network in Portugal and
European Anti-Poverty Network in Portugal and She has a degree in social work, she is a
She has a degree in social work, she is a leading figure in the third sector
leading figure in the third sector and in social action policies in
and in social action policies in Portugal with an extensive and very...
Portugal with an extensive and very... very diverse.
very diverse. And the truth is that
And the truth is that She's in charge now, isn't she, the teacher?
She's in charge now, isn't she, the teacher? Joaquina can then confirm the position.
Joaquina can then confirm the position. of president of the board of directors of the network and
of president of the board of directors of the network and so many other things, but they can go
so many other things, but they can go Do some research and then you'll know more.
Do some research and then you'll know more. things. Exactly. [laughter]
things. Exactly. [laughter] Anyway, thank you for your intervention.
Anyway, thank you for your intervention. hh has been focusing his intervention on
hh has been focusing his intervention on level of social service and not only and of
level of social service and not only and of social intervention in general has
social intervention in general has strongly inflamed in the themes of
strongly inflamed in the themes of poverty, social exclusion,
poverty, social exclusion, housing, inclusion and promotion of
housing, inclusion and promotion of integrated public policies and
integrated public policies and Structural, right? And therefore, I
Structural, right? And therefore, I I remember, I even went to look up a phrase that
I remember, I even went to look up a phrase that many times Professor Joaquina is
many times Professor Joaquina is She tells us when we are with her and
She tells us when we are with her and that poverty is not a problem
that poverty is not a problem of the people, it is a problem of society and
of the people, it is a problem of society and in the way this one also works.
in the way this one also works. Then we also have with us the
Then we also have with us the Professor Isabel Vieira, who is a
Professor Isabel Vieira, who is a a person who is an excellent teacher and
a person who is an excellent teacher and a social, community and interventionist
a social, community and interventionist not only that, but also of excellence in the area of
not only that, but also of excellence in the area of social service. hh and who are you going to tell us
social service. hh and who are you going to tell us It's about rethinking social work.
It's about rethinking social work. as a human rights profession. and
as a human rights profession. and social worker, she holds a doctorate in
social worker, she holds a doctorate in social work from the University
social work from the University Catholic and she's a teacher, eh eh na
Catholic and she's a teacher, eh eh na Catholic University, at the Faculty of
Catholic University, at the Faculty of Humanities, and provides supervision.
Humanities, and provides supervision. also pedagogical of professionals of
also pedagogical of professionals of social intervention in teams
social intervention in teams multidisciplinary and currently also
multidisciplinary and currently also collaborates with the Parish Council
collaborates with the Parish Council currently, but has also collaborated
currently, but has also collaborated For many years it has been in the Board of
For many years it has been in the Board of Carnide parish, in the area closest to
Carnide parish, in the area closest to resources and development too and
resources and development too and so many other things. and it also has one
so many other things. and it also has one This book is very important, that I
This book is very important, that I I invite you to also get to know and
I invite you to also get to know and to visit, to revisit, I would even say about the
to visit, to revisit, I would even say about the participation as a paradigm for
participation as a paradigm for social intervention. And that's it, and that's it.
social intervention. And that's it, and that's it. a reflection that, deep down, we are here today.
a reflection that, deep down, we are here today. around this major theme that already
around this major theme that already We have heard about the rights.
We have heard about the rights. Humans, humanism, and citizenship. And then
Humans, humanism, and citizenship. And then I will now pass the word to the lady.
I will now pass the word to the lady. Professor, Mrs. Dr. Joaquina
Professor, Mrs. Dr. Joaquina Madeira, please.
Madeira, please. Good afternoon to everyone.
Good afternoon to everyone. The difficult time is nap time. Varam
The difficult time is nap time. Varam early. I am going to try
early. I am going to try Keep your eyes open.
Keep your eyes open. I'm not going to present anything. Me and
I'm not going to present anything. Me and that I am the spectacle. Therefore, stay
that I am the spectacle. Therefore, stay Without me, please. Hey, let's move on.
Without me, please. Hey, let's move on. here, an hour between me and now and
here, an hour between me and now and Let's share this time and let's
Let's share this time and let's Make the most of it. I naturally
Make the most of it. I naturally I always prepare my presentations carefully.
I always prepare my presentations carefully. for 3 hours and therefore I appreciate that
for 3 hours and therefore I appreciate that They dominate me, controlling time. Uh, I
They dominate me, controlling time. Uh, I I want to naturally thank you for the invitation.
I want to naturally thank you for the invitation. that was addressed to me. Oh, it's too much.
that was addressed to me. Oh, it's too much. This congress is important, this
This congress is important, this reflection. This is a time for reflection, a time for
reflection. This is a time for reflection, a time for thought, it's imagination, it's
thought, it's imagination, it's creativity. Faced with problems, we
creativity. Faced with problems, we We only have one goal, which is
We only have one goal, which is to overtake him. When we can't
to overtake him. When we can't to overtake, we take a little spin and if
to overtake, we take a little spin and if Perhaps we'll solve it too. Therefore, the
Perhaps we'll solve it too. Therefore, the The theme is humanism, human rights and
The theme is humanism, human rights and citizenship. It couldn't be more timely,
citizenship. It couldn't be more timely, This isn't the topic, because I don't know if it's already...
This isn't the topic, because I don't know if it's already... Did you notice, we only talk about things?
Did you notice, we only talk about things? when they are missing or about to be missing,
when they are missing or about to be missing, otherwise they pass by us without
otherwise they pass by us without importance. At this moment, the topic has
importance. At this moment, the topic has more importance because there really is
more importance because there really is Here is a critical moment regarding
Here is a critical moment regarding all of these, these terms and these
all of these, these terms and these concepts that should be translated into
concepts that should be translated into attitude and human behavior. I
attitude and human behavior. I I gave my intervention the name
I gave my intervention the name create and create models and and for
create and create models and and for Keep them to maintain the design. They know
Keep them to maintain the design. They know What is the purpose?
The theme is creating and recreating models for maintain the design. What will the plan be?
Considering the topic, right? I put it like this, exactly, it should have
I put it like this, exactly, it should have I'm posing a question. The design is
I'm posing a question. The design is exactly to fulfill human rights and
exactly to fulfill human rights and universals. This is the design of
universals. This is the design of social intervention. It's the root, it's the DNA.
social intervention. It's the root, it's the DNA. But that's always the plan.
But that's always the plan. Universal fundamental rights are
Universal fundamental rights are In fact, the framework, the objective, and the
In fact, the framework, the objective, and the assistants' work process
assistants' work process social. Therefore, I began by thinking
social. Therefore, I began by thinking naturally from questions of concepts
naturally from questions of concepts which the lady has already mentioned here, and rightly so.
which the lady has already mentioned here, and rightly so. I wanted to remind you of a book that many
I wanted to remind you of a book that many They will surely know you. If not
They will surely know you. If not they know and have had the opportunity to
they know and have had the opportunity to read it, I recommend it's one of a kind.
read it, I recommend it's one of a kind. Author Amin Maluf, I don't know if this tells you anything.
Author Amin Maluf, I don't know if this tells you anything. something, which is a writer, a
something, which is a writer, a humanist, a reader of reality, a
humanist, a reader of reality, a An analytical approach to contemporary societies. the
An analytical approach to contemporary societies. the writer and poet as well
writer and poet as well who wrote the book with the name
who wrote the book with the name suggestive that it is a world without rules.
suggestive that it is a world without rules. when our civilizations
when our civilizations They run out.
They run out. So it seems that it is indeed a topic, isn't it?
So it seems that it is indeed a topic, isn't it? of cataclysm, no, of the end of
of cataclysm, no, of the end of empires,
empires, but it
but it Perhaps many of us agree that
Perhaps many of us agree that Something is changing. I
Something is changing. I I'm not just talking about changing, but about...
I'm not just talking about changing, but about... to transform from the root. We are in an era
to transform from the root. We are in an era or in a change not of times, no
or in a change not of times, no later, but from an era. There are signs
later, but from an era. There are signs evident that something very profound and
evident that something very profound and A structural change is taking place. we saw the
A structural change is taking place. we saw the what happens at the level, in fact, there is
what happens at the level, in fact, there is many authors and many thinkers and
many authors and many thinkers and many analysts of the present and of
many analysts of the present and of future that they say is a time of
future that they say is a time of multiple crises.
multiple crises. Therefore, there has always been a crisis, the crisis.
Therefore, there has always been a crisis, the crisis. It's part of ours, but here there are two.
It's part of ours, but here there are two. elements that characterize our
elements that characterize our time. It's a multi-crisis. Therefore, more than
time. It's a multi-crisis. Therefore, more than one crisis, two, three multiple crises
one crisis, two, three multiple crises and the speed at which they happen.
and the speed at which they happen. There are two factors that characterize the
There are two factors that characterize the our time, which we never lived through, always
our time, which we never lived through, always We are living through crises, multiple crises, and with
We are living through crises, multiple crises, and with speed. It is, indeed, a challenge at the level of...
speed. It is, indeed, a challenge at the level of... economic, communicational, naturally
economic, communicational, naturally social networks, relative more relative
social networks, relative more relative to fundamental and universal values.
to fundamental and universal values. Therefore, there are also clear signs there.
Therefore, there are also clear signs there. with some dominant traits in our
with some dominant traits in our society, which is one of intolerances, of
society, which is one of intolerances, of xenophobia, racism, in short, forms
xenophobia, racism, in short, forms hatred towards others, especially towards
hatred towards others, especially towards another, but it's not exactly with the other, it's with
another, but it's not exactly with the other, it's with The other, different and poor. Pay close attention,
The other, different and poor. Pay close attention, because foreigners in Portugal, if
because foreigners in Portugal, if They have economic power, they are foreigners.
They have economic power, they are foreigners. If they are poor, they have migrants.
If they are poor, they have migrants. And therefore, there is a crisis in the world.
And therefore, there is a crisis in the world. with regard to intolerance, to
with regard to intolerance, to adversity. You know that in large
adversity. You know that in large part
part Hatred and intolerance are founded on...
Hatred and intolerance are founded on... Another problem is fear.
Another problem is fear. We fundamentally have insecurities.
We fundamentally have insecurities. fear of what is different, especially if it is
fear of what is different, especially if it is visible. And therefore, in the world of
visible. And therefore, in the world of mobility,
mobility, It looks Babylonian, doesn't it? The big ones
It looks Babylonian, doesn't it? The big ones transhumance and more than that, the
transhumance and more than that, the Large migrations seem to belong to the times.
Large migrations seem to belong to the times. biblical.
biblical. If we see that image of
If we see that image of Gaza fleeing to the north of S
Gaza fleeing to the north of S Jordan, it's extraordinary how things are.
Jordan, it's extraordinary how things are. to happen in the 20th century. Therefore, it is a
to happen in the 20th century. Therefore, it is a The world is truly undergoing profound changes.
The world is truly undergoing profound changes. It's good for us to know that
It's good for us to know that It goes against everything we believed.
It goes against everything we believed. and we have defended up until now, including the
and we have defended up until now, including the fundamental rights, the rights
fundamental rights, the rights universals.
universals. And as has already been said here, and rightly so, the
And as has already been said here, and rightly so, the universal and fundamental rights are
universal and fundamental rights are the matrix and the reason for the service's existence
the matrix and the reason for the service's existence social.
social. Social work is founded precisely on
Social work is founded precisely on equal opportunities in justice
equal opportunities in justice social, in the dignity of people,
social, in the dignity of people, Finally, and these are the rights in
Finally, and these are the rights in Respect for difference. And these are the
Respect for difference. And these are the rights that are being put into
rights that are being put into cause. Therefore, your time here is
cause. Therefore, your time here is For younger people, it's a time of turbulence.
For younger people, it's a time of turbulence. which actually requires not being there too many
which actually requires not being there too many convinced of what needs to be done and
convinced of what needs to be done and how should we do it?
how should we do it? We are here in a house that has
We are here in a house that has responsibilities in this particular area,
responsibilities in this particular area, we know, in the initial training of all
we know, in the initial training of all academics and that it is indeed timely
academics and that it is indeed timely this reflection that is being made about
this reflection that is being made about The world, Europe, and Portugal. of the
The world, Europe, and Portugal. of the human rights, of which the greatest
human rights, of which the greatest opportunity, because we know that
opportunity, because we know that We need to think not only about our own actions.
We need to think not only about our own actions. where we will intervene, but in the whole of
where we will intervene, but in the whole of The universe we are in. In other words, it's very...
The universe we are in. In other words, it's very... interesting. I'm a little bit
interesting. I'm a little bit I'm going off-topic, but let me say that...
I'm going off-topic, but let me say that... Maslow's pyramid, in addition to the five
Maslow's pyramid, in addition to the five basic needs
basic needs They've been established since, like
They've been established since, like You know, mid-century, now there's more
You know, mid-century, now there's more two needs that are identified,
two needs that are identified, which is the knowledge and understanding of
which is the knowledge and understanding of world
world and the aesthetic needs of good and
and the aesthetic needs of good and of beauty. These are two new needs.
of beauty. These are two new needs. for human beings. Therefore, much more
for human beings. Therefore, much more the teachers, the people in the field
the teachers, the people in the field social and the students have to
social and the students have to to realize that in order to act on the tree we have
to realize that in order to act on the tree we have to get to know the forest.
to get to know the forest. This conversation, one might say, is very...
This conversation, one might say, is very... far from social services, it's not far from
far from social services, it's not far from social service, because that's what is done
social service, because that's what is done In the smallest territory, we have to
In the smallest territory, we have to always position yourself in the movements and in
always position yourself in the movements and in characteristics of the context in which we operate.
characteristics of the context in which we operate. Therefore, this is a topic that fits,
Therefore, this is a topic that fits, In a way, it's social work. THE
In a way, it's social work. THE The service at this moment remains
The service at this moment remains firm in its ethics, in its principles,
firm in its ethics, in its principles, rescues in and must be rescued in
rescues in and must be rescued in daily practices, values
daily practices, values structural and fundamental in practices
structural and fundamental in practices daily tasks in social work, knowing
daily tasks in social work, knowing that either from a technical point of view and
that either from a technical point of view and scientific, naturally and methodologically,
scientific, naturally and methodologically, we naturally have to act accordingly
we naturally have to act accordingly with the advances that are being made in this
with the advances that are being made in this in this field and in studies. and from the side
in this field and in studies. and from the side scientific discovery that goes
scientific discovery that goes learning from experience in context
learning from experience in context in which we act. Therefore, evolution is
in which we act. Therefore, evolution is It's a technique, but it's not one of its principles.
It's a technique, but it's not one of its principles. fundamental things that must be done
fundamental things that must be done Keep firm. This is a topic.
Keep firm. This is a topic. But there is a question here that is relatively...
But there is a question here that is relatively... to those receiving assistance, and especially when
to those receiving assistance, and especially when I'm in an institution, it's in
I'm in an institution, it's in training, which is my conviction that
training, which is my conviction that we cannot dissociate the person who
we cannot dissociate the person who We belong to the profession we practice. That is
We belong to the profession we practice. That is a very serious point that comes from my
a very serious point that comes from my experience.
experience. Uh, the caregiving professional is a professional.
Uh, the caregiving professional is a professional. of the relationships of the relationships, of the relationships
of the relationships of the relationships, of the relationships human, institutional relations,
human, institutional relations, of social relations and therefore has
of social relations and therefore has who knows human beings very well and
who knows human beings very well and It has to have ethical principles.
It has to have ethical principles. Mentors, guides for your actions.
Mentors, guides for your actions. Therefore, each one of us has to be
Therefore, each one of us has to be to be from a personal point of view, to be
to be from a personal point of view, to be human, with human skills
human, with human skills compatible
compatible with the principles that we will defend,
with the principles that we will defend, Furthermore, always keeping in mind,
Furthermore, always keeping in mind, naturally, this framework of rights
naturally, this framework of rights humans. And therefore, there are
humans. And therefore, there are certain personal abilities that
certain personal abilities that They must be trained beyond the
They must be trained beyond the scientific and technical knowledge.
scientific and technical knowledge. Therefore, Father António Vieira said
Therefore, Father António Vieira said so that when they ask you who you are,
so that when they ask you who you are, Answer what you do. What do you do?
Answer what you do. What do you do? so them.
so them. Therefore, there is no good assistant.
Therefore, there is no good assistant. socially, if you're not a well-adjusted person,
socially, if you're not a well-adjusted person, ethics, in light of fundamental rights,
ethics, in light of fundamental rights, with ethical attitudes, behaviors
with ethical attitudes, behaviors ethics. And naturally there are two
ethics. And naturally there are two qualities that are fundamental.
qualities that are fundamental. First, believing that this is murder.
First, believing that this is murder. of social services. Believe and practice.
of social services. Believe and practice. The design of the care service is the
The design of the care service is the people, families are subjects of
people, families are subjects of rights
rights of social justice and equality of
of social justice and equality of We are the same.
We are the same. No value judgments before it's...
No value judgments before it's... Bulgarian, before being
Bulgarian, before being Tibetan, before being an immigrant, is
Tibetan, before being an immigrant, is person. We are all people before we are people.
person. We are all people before we are people. to be anything. And as people
to be anything. And as people We are all human beings, equal in every way.
We are all human beings, equal in every way. side. This is an inalienable principle.
side. This is an inalienable principle. of social work.
of social work. And people are different.
And people are different. and we can only work with people,
and we can only work with people, working on our social relationships
working on our social relationships We start from this principle. But there are two
We start from this principle. But there are two qualities, two human skills
qualities, two human skills which I find essential in an assistant
which I find essential in an assistant social, in addition to its eh of its do
social, in addition to its eh of its do having incorporated that we are the
having incorporated that we are the agents of social rights. Beyond
agents of social rights. Beyond Of these, there are two: persistence and
Of these, there are two: persistence and perseverance.
perseverance. Don't forget, it's PP, PP,
Don't forget, it's PP, PP, Persistence and perseverance.
Persistence and perseverance. They seem like synonyms, but they are not synonyms.
They seem like synonyms, but they are not synonyms. When you are at your work
When you are at your work difficult, remember, PP, persistence and
difficult, remember, PP, persistence and perseverance. Persistence, what is it?
perseverance. Persistence, what is it? persistent
persistent in relation to the objectives. Therefore, we
in relation to the objectives. Therefore, we We set the objectives and we have to
We set the objectives and we have to persist
persist in not achieving the objectives and quality,
in not achieving the objectives and quality, Pay close attention, and the quality of movement.
Pay close attention, and the quality of movement. obstacles. The social worker is a
obstacles. The social worker is a obstacle handling technician,
obstacle handling technician, It's not about civil construction.
It's not about civil construction. is one of the obstacles to equality.
is one of the obstacles to equality. People's opportunity.
People's opportunity. Therefore, we must persevere.
Therefore, we must persevere. in this main objective, remove the
in this main objective, remove the hospital. When a person addresses
hospital. When a person addresses the social worker, when we want
the social worker, when we want to transform something, it's because it has a
to transform something, it's because it has a The problem is that there is an obstacle.
The problem is that there is an obstacle. because it has a difficulty and the
because it has a difficulty and the social worker serves to with the
social worker serves to with the people, with communities, etc. Then,
people, with communities, etc. Then, Let's see how we overcome this.
Let's see how we overcome this. portal. This is our job.
portal. This is our job. daily life. Why? to enjoy the
daily life. Why? to enjoy the rights, to be a person and to have all the
rights, to be a person and to have all the conditions for it to take place, to be achieved
conditions for it to take place, to be achieved their purposes. The second, no less
their purposes. The second, no less What's important is perseverance.
What's important is perseverance. Perseverance is the ability to maintain
Perseverance is the ability to maintain firm, to remain firm throughout the
firm, to remain firm throughout the processes.
processes. Therefore, everyone knows that in the service
Therefore, everyone knows that in the service social transformation
social transformation to solve a problem.
to solve a problem. Normally when we talk about problems
Normally when we talk about problems We immediately thought of a sure-fire solution.
We immediately thought of a sure-fire solution. In social work, social problems
In social work, social problems They are complex, not simple. There is no
They are complex, not simple. There is no a single solution to the problems
a single solution to the problems social. Why?
social. Why? Because the problems are complex.
Because the problems are complex. social. We'll get there in a moment. Therefore, the
social. We'll get there in a moment. Therefore, the Perseverance, I repeat, is the ability to...
Perseverance, I repeat, is the ability to... to remain steadfast throughout the processes. what
to remain steadfast throughout the processes. what Sometimes the processes aren't, no
Sometimes the processes aren't, no They always walk straight ahead, huh, they do
They always walk straight ahead, huh, they do many curves, then intersections,
many curves, then intersections, after obstacles,
after obstacles, perseverance. If that is the goal,
perseverance. If that is the goal, we persist in the objective with
we persist in the objective with perseverance.
perseverance. Therefore, these are two human qualities.
Therefore, these are two human qualities. that any professional in this area of
that any professional in this area of human sciences, particularly
human sciences, particularly Social assistance programs require practice.
Social assistance programs require practice. They have to acquire it. It's not just methodologies.
They have to acquire it. It's not just methodologies. In the case of technical intervention, it is the person who
In the case of technical intervention, it is the person who We are, it is the person we are capable of
We are, it is the person we are capable of to be able to enter processes
to be able to enter processes professionals. Without certain
professionals. Without certain skills,
skills, uh, it's difficult for us
uh, it's difficult for us to achieve our goal. At the end of
to achieve our goal. At the end of accounts, what is the achievement of any
accounts, what is the achievement of any professional?
professional? It's about helping to transform situations.
It's about helping to transform situations. Negatives turning into positives. This is the
Negatives turning into positives. This is the objective, whether of people or of
objective, whether of people or of institutions, whether from the community. This is it.
institutions, whether from the community. This is it. our work. Therefore,
our work. Therefore, in light of these facts and with these
in light of these facts and with these skills,
skills, We are facing complex problems.
We are facing complex problems. I think that's already a well-known topic.
I think that's already a well-known topic. Social problems are problems that...
Social problems are problems that... What does it mean? I already mentioned one.
What does it mean? I already mentioned one. a tiny bit that will exist but never will.
a tiny bit that will exist but never will. for a complex problem a single
for a complex problem a single A precise and accurate answer for your solution.
A precise and accurate answer for your solution. Never. There isn't just one. Why? Why
Never. There isn't just one. Why? Why the person, as Father Francisco used to say,
the person, as Father Francisco used to say, It had a very interesting expression.
It had a very interesting expression. which said that people are polyhedra.
Eh, he wrote, I ask that in a cyclical this. What does that mean? Eh,
this. What does that mean? Eh, A person has many facets. person,
A person has many facets. person, for example, in a situation of poverty,
for example, in a situation of poverty, Poverty can be the problem.
Poverty can be the problem. housing, but behind the housing, what
housing, but behind the housing, what Is it coming? Unhealthy housing or lack thereof.
Is it coming? Unhealthy housing or lack thereof. housing or health. And then what?
housing or health. And then what? It comes with health and the lack of
It comes with health and the lack of housing? The children go to school.
housing? The children go to school. and are unable to succeed in school
and are unable to succeed in school because it doesn't have a motivating environment.
because it doesn't have a motivating environment. This wing is suitable for your job.
This wing is suitable for your job. Therefore, people are polyhedra, they have
Therefore, people are polyhedra, they have many faces. poverty is a
many faces. poverty is a multi-causal problem
multi-causal problem And what's more, it's not just multicausal, it's not the
And what's more, it's not just multicausal, it's not the sum of causes,
sum of causes, and
and They interact with each other and form a cycle.
They interact with each other and form a cycle. which is called the cycle of poverty, because
which is called the cycle of poverty, because Interacting reinforces the problem and makes
Interacting reinforces the problem and makes A knot, isn't it? It makes a knot and therefore it is
A knot, isn't it? It makes a knot and therefore it is even more difficult to solve. That's why,
even more difficult to solve. That's why, Poverty is intergenerational, isn't it?
Poverty is intergenerational, isn't it? throughout the generations, because there is a
throughout the generations, because there is a A hard knot that is reinforced along the way.
A hard knot that is reinforced along the way. time if poverty lasts a long time,
time if poverty lasts a long time, Because the person gradually loses capacity.
Because the person gradually loses capacity. Poverty, you know, they know it's mainly
Poverty, you know, they know it's mainly Stress is a form of life, and stress kills.
Stress is a form of life, and stress kills. Poverty also kills.
Poverty also kills. because people live in anguish of
because people live in anguish of day-to-day, in the stress of day-to-day life. Only
day-to-day, in the stress of day-to-day life. Only They think about it, they say: "Oh, the
They think about it, they say: "Oh, the People settle in, people don't.
People settle in, people don't. They participate because they have to survive."
They participate because they have to survive." And when you think about survival, no
And when you think about survival, no If you think about the day after tomorrow, you think
If you think about the day after tomorrow, you think logo. Therefore, there are no projects.
logo. Therefore, there are no projects. Possible options for the day after tomorrow.
Possible options for the day after tomorrow. Therefore,
Therefore, It is indeed a problem that we have to
It is indeed a problem that we have to prevent. If you don't take precautions, it's very risky.
prevent. If you don't take precautions, it's very risky. difficult to solve.
difficult to solve. Therefore, it is complex. Why? Why
Therefore, it is complex. Why? Why It has multiple causes, because the causes
It has multiple causes, because the causes They reinforce each other. Therefore, the solutions,
They reinforce each other. Therefore, the solutions, solutions to these problems also
solutions to these problems also They have to be multidimensional.
They have to be multidimensional. with a variety of resources and with
with a variety of resources and with a diversity of protagonists.
a diversity of protagonists. And therefore, it requires new capabilities.
And therefore, it requires new capabilities. for agents, management skills,
for agents, management skills, ability to manage conflicts,
ability to manage conflicts, capacity
capacity of interinstitutional relations,
of interinstitutional relations, Yeah, teamwork, because
Yeah, teamwork, because alone, each of the provisions does not
alone, each of the provisions does not They could naturally help to solve
They could naturally help to solve problem. Therefore, this new one is not
problem. Therefore, this new one is not because they hadn't already existed and we
because they hadn't already existed and we We didn't know why, but it is.
We didn't know why, but it is. theorized at this moment that there are
theorized at this moment that there are human problems that are complex and
human problems that are complex and that do not have a single solution and that
that do not have a single solution and that They do indeed require a set of solutions.
They do indeed require a set of solutions. and therefore, they are competencies, they are skills
and therefore, they are competencies, they are skills formal requirements that must be acquired, but
formal requirements that must be acquired, but also human skills, the ability to
also human skills, the ability to to persist and to resist.
to persist and to resist. I'll tell you how much time I have.
I'll tell you how much time I have. To find out.
To find out. I still have 10 minutes.
I still have 10 minutes. So I put down five ideas here, I want
So I put down five ideas here, I want share with you
share with you which seem to me to be the measures that the
which seem to me to be the measures that the I'm not going to say anything about social work.
I'm not going to say anything about social work. Again, so don't have too many.
Again, so don't have too many. expectations.
expectations. The news is that I should be the one to say it, but
The news is that I should be the one to say it, but nothing.
nothing. Why? For me, each one of us
Why? For me, each one of us Oh, it adds something, doesn't it? Or it says of
Oh, it adds something, doesn't it? Or it says of a different way, but I'm not...
a different way, but I'm not... discovering gunpowder, but in fact it is
discovering gunpowder, but in fact it is what I, after my practice,
what I, after my practice, As you can imagine, I have quite a lot.
As you can imagine, I have quite a lot. taking into account the long time that
taking into account the long time that I work and I'm going to continue to
I work and I'm going to continue to I work, therefore, I remain active.
I work, therefore, I remain active. How old am I?
How old am I? Go.
Go. I'll give you a mobile phone. Want to get it right?
I'll give you a mobile phone. Want to get it right? [laughter]
[laughter] We'll leave that for later. Sorry, it's just for
We'll leave that for later. Sorry, it's just for wake up a little so as not to
wake up a little so as not to fall asleep. [laughter]
fall asleep. [laughter] I'm not speaking ill of anyone,
I'm not speaking ill of anyone, Go ahead, but I wanted to participate.
It is fine. Go, students, I am for you. great grandmother. It is fine.
72 79.
I hope to be here with you at 97. [laughter]
Ready. So, what are the five?
So, what are the five? ideas
ideas They are crucial.
They are crucial. for social work and for the
for social work and for the Social intervention in general?
Social intervention in general? It's not just about assistance, but the
It's not just about assistance, but the The welfare department plays a role here.
The welfare department plays a role here. fundamental
fundamental I translated it in the "a" and "iou" section of the service.
I translated it in the "a" and "iou" section of the service. social, the basics. Then ladies
social, the basics. Then ladies teachers will certainly develop or
teachers will certainly develop or They are already developing them. Then
They are already developing them. Then What is important at work?
What is important at work? social?
social? I'll put it another way. Therefore,
I'll put it another way. Therefore, social work is an exercise, a
social work is an exercise, a a profession or even an art, if we
a profession or even an art, if we If you want, because besides being good and beneficial, it has
If you want, because besides being good and beneficial, it has How beautiful it is, isn't it? It has to be the
How beautiful it is, isn't it? It has to be the three, the three objectives, there must be
three, the three objectives, there must be to associate and increasingly this has
to associate and increasingly this has sense. Therefore, neither can we.
sense. Therefore, neither can we. individually, social worker
individually, social worker solve problems on their own.
solve problems on their own. One appeal is not enough, considering the
One appeal is not enough, considering the complexity of the problems, for
complexity of the problems, for to solve social problems. Therefore,
to solve social problems. Therefore, It is imperative. We have the ability to
It is imperative. We have the ability to to move resources, desires,
to move resources, desires, capabilities around the solution of
capabilities around the solution of problems.
problems. And I'm talking about all levels, no.
And I'm talking about all levels, no. and? at the institutional level of resources
and? at the institutional level of resources institutional, at the policy level,
institutional, at the policy level, to move policies and resources and to
to move policies and resources and to level of professional skills.
level of professional skills. Therefore, associate
Therefore, associate It's about joining,
It's about joining, It's about connecting, it's about establishing bonds, it's
It's about connecting, it's about establishing bonds, it's to mobilize synergies for the common good and
to mobilize synergies for the common good and In consistent practice, as we already know,
In consistent practice, as we already know, empowerment,
empowerment, through what the lady
through what the lady will develop better than I did
will develop better than I did participation. Empowerment only happens
participation. Empowerment only happens when there is participation, otherwise it is
when there is participation, otherwise it is cosmetics.
cosmetics. Cosmetic intervention is also common.
Cosmetic intervention is also common. It seems like it is, but it isn't. Participation
It seems like it is, but it isn't. Participation only true
only true if it is worked on with people and if
if it is worked on with people and if to be born from and if it is from that
to be born from and if it is from that work process to develop that
work process to develop that which we call empowering people.
which we call empowering people. You know there's an author who defines
You know there's an author who defines poverty
poverty How does non-participation work?
How does non-participation work? It's very simple. It was, it was that which accompanied
It's very simple. It was, it was that which accompanied Bruto da Costa's doctorate. He
Bruto da Costa's doctorate. He He often said: "My master says
He often said: "My master says "Poverty is non-participation."
"Poverty is non-participation." It was interesting to say from this point on...
It was interesting to say from this point on... Why is it non-participation? Let them
Why is it non-participation? Let them this homework. Why is that
this homework. Why is that Is poverty non-participation? No
Is poverty non-participation? No Participation in what?
Participation in what? Because people are marginalized. If not
Because people are marginalized. If not Participates, but is on the sidelines. If not
Participates, but is on the sidelines. If not Participates, but is not part of.
Participates, but is not part of. It is excluded.
It is excluded. And therefore, associating is all to our
And therefore, associating is all to our It's not this one, it's that one, and
It's not this one, it's that one, and particularly the people themselves
particularly the people themselves individually or collectively that are
individually or collectively that are subjects of our action and to whom we act
subjects of our action and to whom we act we are directing our action. Without that
we are directing our action. Without that participation does not lead to transformation
participation does not lead to transformation social. There may be social cosmetics, but
social. There may be social cosmetics, but There is no change. Therefore, this is a
There is no change. Therefore, this is a fundamental principle. The inside of this
fundamental principle. The inside of this associating this issue is increasingly becoming a concern.
associating this issue is increasingly becoming a concern. very important, I don't know if I am
very important, I don't know if I am working on this topic, which is for the teams,
working on this topic, which is for the teams, teamwork, naturally the
teamwork, naturally the Complex society requires multiple types of knowledge.
Complex society requires multiple types of knowledge. multi-skills
multi-skills even the ones we think are more
even the ones we think are more recessed. People in law, the
recessed. People in law, the people of history, the people of
people of history, the people of finances have to be in the area of
finances have to be in the area of combating poverty and other problems
combating poverty and other problems social.
social. But this was already being discussed in my time, but
But this was already being discussed in my time, but It's difficult to do. But at this moment
It's difficult to do. But at this moment many teams are questioned.
many teams are questioned. interdisciplinary,
interdisciplinary, because what truly needs to
because what truly needs to Transdisciplinary teams are what exist.
Transdisciplinary teams are what exist. because it cannot
because it cannot to divide, to segment the needs of
to divide, to segment the needs of people. People have needs.
people. People have needs. Several, but they are holistic.
Several, but they are holistic. It's a whole. And therefore, the interventions
It's a whole. And therefore, the interventions they have to be done in a way
they have to be done in a way transdisciplinary
transdisciplinary for each person not to take a part of
for each person not to take a part of problems of the subjects to whom we
problems of the subjects to whom we We can help. Therefore, this is an exercise.
We can help. Therefore, this is an exercise. It's difficult, but I think that's what we have.
It's difficult, but I think that's what we have. that work, that is, having the discussion
that work, that is, having the discussion of the problems as a whole. This happens
of the problems as a whole. This happens very important in medicine. in medicine it happens
very important in medicine. in medicine it happens very much, but then there will be an intervention.
very much, but then there will be an intervention. transdisciplinary intervention
transdisciplinary intervention transdisciplinary, the discussion is
transdisciplinary, the discussion is multidisciplinary.
multidisciplinary. This then requires work on
This then requires work on This is one of the questions that arise.
This is one of the questions that arise. at this moment at various levels and in
at this moment at various levels and in various fields. Another one, the second one to follow.
various fields. Another one, the second one to follow. A is a
Following the A. What letter does this represent? to catch you. They're not paying attention. No
to catch you. They're not paying attention. No They are paying attention.
They are paying attention. There is.
There is. AND. So, what is it?
AND. So, what is it? What are we going to look for? There are many
What are we going to look for? There are many words with and I'm not going to ask you if
words with and I'm not going to ask you if No, we didn't finish one. It's about getting involved.
No, we didn't finish one. It's about getting involved. Involve.
Once again, excuse me, the Pope Francisco is always so accurate.
Francisco is always so accurate. In what Pope Francis says, he says a
In what Pope Francis says, he says a thing: "It's very important to count the
thing: "It's very important to count the "They are poor, but it's better to embrace them."
And here we have the involvement, It's acceptance, it's understanding,
It's acceptance, it's understanding, it is not? This is information without value judgments.
it is not? This is information without value judgments. It's empathy.
It's empathy. This is what the action means. And for that reason,
This is what the action means. And for that reason, The intervention has to be immersive.
The intervention has to be immersive. The territory, which had already been lost for
The territory, which had already been lost for for some time its value has been the
for some time its value has been the fundamental substrate of transformation.
fundamental substrate of transformation. It is in the place that life is real and is
It is in the place that life is real and is there where we can do
there where we can do real transformation
real transformation because it is in the space-time of life of
because it is in the space-time of life of people and resources. It doesn't mean
people and resources. It doesn't mean that there is no contribution from the regional level,
that there is no contribution from the regional level, national, of all, but it's local
national, of all, but it's local That life is real. That's where you have to
That life is real. That's where you have to during immersion,
during immersion, social work and transformation.
social work and transformation. Therefore, it results once again from a
Therefore, it results once again from a A complex perspective, isn't it? We have to
A complex perspective, isn't it? We have to look at the community in its
look at the community in its multiple is in its multiples
multiple is in its multiples dimensions. Therefore,
dimensions. Therefore, that's the difficulty
that's the difficulty Yes, as I repeat, in social problems it is
Yes, as I repeat, in social problems it is to have a single answer
to have a single answer and accurate.
and accurate. Don't think about it, it's all much more complex than that.
Don't think about it, it's all much more complex than that. That's it. And there's a topic here that I...
That's it. And there's a topic here that I... I've been thinking about this issue.
I've been thinking about this issue. You know that at this moment there is in
You know that at this moment there is in Portugal, as is the case in other countries,
Portugal, as is the case in other countries, This practice of para is not unique to Portugal.
This practice of para is not unique to Portugal. For every problem, a strategy. The problem
For every problem, a strategy. The problem aging has a strategy, the
aging has a strategy, the The problem of children at risk has a
The problem of children at risk has a strategy. The problem of poverty is a
strategy. The problem of poverty is a Therefore, the strategy is a silo. Silo.
Therefore, the strategy is a silo. Silo. I'm seeing the Alentejo region with the silos of
I'm seeing the Alentejo region with the silos of cereals. some along with other silos
cereals. some along with other silos problem solving.
problem solving. When we are talking about
When we are talking about integration,
integration, it is not? Well, how do we admit that
it is not? Well, how do we admit that every problem, that every social group
every problem, that every social group you have
you have What if we thought about it another way?
What if we thought about it another way? Just a little bit of revolution here.
Just a little bit of revolution here. What if we think outside the box? What if we
What if we think outside the box? What if we Thinking outside the box, what is that?
Thinking outside the box, what is that? What do all these people have in common? To all
What do all these people have in common? To all These people have these problems, it's the
These people have these problems, it's the vulnerability,
It's a mental illness. It's isolation,
It's isolation, It's the lack of access. Therefore, everyone
It's the lack of access. Therefore, everyone vulnerable social groups have a
vulnerable social groups have a something common, which is vulnerability,
something common, which is vulnerability, although with specificities.
although with specificities. Therefore, to mainstream it
Therefore, to mainstream it not of social groups, but of
not of social groups, but of problems that affect social groups.
problems that affect social groups. Hmm.
Hmm. And then poverty, as it has a theme that
And then poverty, as it has a theme that but it is for all social groups, the
but it is for all social groups, the the dependencies
the dependencies for all social groups in a way
for all social groups in a way Everything is different, and we need to develop strategies.
Everything is different, and we need to develop strategies. not for the affected social groups, but
not for the affected social groups, but for the problematic
for the problematic which is for integration.
which is for integration. The idea remains.
The idea remains. but I think it's worth thinking about,
but I think it's worth thinking about, because this then has repercussions on
because this then has repercussions on
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