This content explores how environmental factors, specifically social and cognitive presence and transactional distance, interact with Kohlberg's stages of moral development to shape an individual's sense of right and wrong. It emphasizes that moral growth is not solely an internal process but is significantly influenced by the learning environment and social interactions.
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just think like how like how did they
get there how do we go from don't eat
the cookies before dinner to you know
trying to figure out like all these
really complex moral dilemas we see out
there in the world it is it's pretty
amazing to think about how we develop
that sense of right and wrong isn't it
it really is and uh one of the biggest
names in that is Colberg right
absolutely Berg's theory of moral
development which is the stage Theory
all about how people progress through
different stages of reasoning when it
comes to moral issues but he was really
focused on the individual right like
their own thought process yeah and it's
fascinating stuff but it does sort of
leave you with the question of like well
what about the environment what about
the context that those individuals are
developing in and that's where this idea
of Clark's transactional Theory comes in
oh yeah I like that so it's not just
like looking at the person it's looking
at everything around them too right yeah
exactly it's like you can't just look at
the plant growing you have to look at
the soil the sunlight all that stuff
yeah perfect I love that and so that's
kind of what we're diving into today is
this the way these two theories actually
go together to help us understand how
the environments we learn in can
actually shape our sense of what's right
and what's wrong yeah it's going to be
fun yeah it is going to be fun so first
up let's talk about this social presence
idea from Clark now I mean I think it
sounds kind of straightforward but how
does that actually play into the stages
that Colberg was talking about well you
know it's almost like social presence is
kind of like that real world application
of some of those stages right because if
you think about it Colberg talks about a
stage where understanding social norms
and expectations becomes really
important for moral development well
social presence is what gives us the
context for actually understanding those
things so it's like not just knowing the
rules but it's like seeing them play out
yeah exactly and seeing like the nuances
right I mean imagine if you were taking
like a college semar on ethics it's one
thing to read the theories in a textbook
right but it's a whole other thing when
you've got a group of people students
and they're debating they're
respectfully disagreeing with each other
right they're challenging each other's
views the professor is in there kind of
guiding that discussion that's high
social presence and that really pushes
you to think about the why behind
ethical behavior and ethical Norms
totally and especially when you think
about like going from that kind of like
good boy good girl stage that cber talk
about to understanding broader societal
laws and stuff I mean you need that
social back and forth absolutely do you
think you could get that just from
observing or does it need to be like an
intense social presence that is a really
interesting question and I think you're
right that observation definitely plays
a role right we walk people we learn
from that yeah but Clark's Theory would
say that the more we actually actively
participate in those social interactions
the stronger like the deeper our
understanding of those moral principles
becomes and I always think about this
with language you know you can pick up
some vocabulary just by listening to
someone talk yeah but you don't really
become fluent until you're actually
having a conversation yeah that's true
right it's that back and forth yeah
totally okay so then what about
cognitive presence okay how does that
piece that Clark talks about connect to
what Colberg was saying about moral
reasoning okay this is where things get
really cool I think because Colberg
tells us that real moral development
isn't just about feeling bad when we do
something wrong right like oh I feel
guilty right right it's about the
reasoning behind that right it's about
actually being able to analyze like why
something is wrong and cognitive
presence is all about creating an
environment that Fosters that kind of
analytical thinking so like a classroom
where you're just memorizing rules
that's probably low cognitive presence
and maybe not doing a whole lot for your
moral development right probably not I
got it but imagine instead that you're
in a philosophy class and the professor
throws out this really complex ethical
dilemma something that's like ripped
from the headlines right something
really relevant and then encourages
everyone in the class to not only form
their own opinions but to defend those
opinions using logic evidence maybe even
challenging like some long held
assumptions right that's high cognitive
presence and that's like a gym you know
for your moral reasoning skills I love
that like a gym that's a really good
analogy but makes me think too about the
different ways people learn right some
people are very analytical some are more
feeling based does Clark's Theory
account for that at all or is it
assuming that like everyone's going to
thrive in that really kind of like
intense cognitive environment that's a
great point and I think that is
something that Clark does acknowledge
right that cognitive presence isn't
about like trying to force everybody
into this like same analytical box right
it's about providing a space where
people can engage with the material in a
way that's meaningful for them that that
really gets them thinking so for some
people that might mean heated debate
right they thrive on that for others it
might be more like quiet reflection and
writing So Different Strokes for
different folks the key is that the
environment encourages that act of
wrestling with those ideas yeah okay
that makes a lot of sense okay let's go
to transactional distance which I'll be
honest when I first saw that I was like
what yeah yeah it sounds very Tech
but is it basically about how much
intellectual Freedom you have in a
learning environment you nailed it yeah
High transactional distance is like that
old school classroom you know the one
where the teachers at the front they're
dictating you're memorizing there's no
room for questioning right that's high
distance right low distance is more like
you have a mentor and that Mentor is
challenging you they're pushing you to
think for yourself to explore different
viewpoints maybe even to disagree with
them right right which looking back to
Colberg you need that to develop your
own moral compass absolutely right
you're not going to be able to develop
it if you're not allowed to you know
even Explore the terrain right but do
you think there's ever a time where that
high transactional distance could be
beneficial I'm thinking about like those
earlier Colberg stages where having very
clear rules and expectations like that's
kind of crucial that's a really great
point and I think you're right there can
be times when a more structured like a
higher distance approach is actually
appropriate especially when we're
thinking about about earlier stages of
moral development you know think about
teaching a small child about like basic
safety rules you know you need to have
those clear boundaries yeah yeah yeah
you need those expectations to establish
that Foundation right but as people
mature as they move through those stages
that distance needs to shrink right it
needs to shrink to allow for that
exploration that critical thinking that
really fuels that higher level moral
reasoning yeah oh that makes a lot of
sense this has been so insightful and it
really highlights something I think that
these theories talk about which is the
importance of discussion absolutely
right like iron sharpens iron yes when
you're bouncing ideas off other people
it makes you really look at what you
believe right yeah and not just look at
it but articulate it right you have to
put it into words you have to defend it
you might even change your mind based on
what other people are saying you know
that's where real growth happens it's
it's not when we're just in isolation
it's when we're actually having that
dialogue that back and forth people
think it's a little messy it's in that
that space that we really start to
understand ourselves and understand our
own morality so for everyone listening I
think the big takeaway here is that it's
not just about us you know in our heads
thinking about this stuff the
environment the people we're around the
ways that we're encouraged to think all
of that actually impacts how our sense
of morality grows yeah it's that Inplay
you know it's our minds and it's it's
the world around us they both shape each
other yeah I love that so I think a good
thing for everyone listening to think
about is you know where have you seen
these theories kind of play out in your
own life right think about those mentors
you've had think about different
classrooms maybe even online communities
how did those places how did those
groups of people actually change the way
you think about right and wrong it's a
good question to ponder it is yeah
awesome well thank you so much for
joining us for this deep dive thanks for
having me yeah this is great my pleasure
all right we'll catch you next time
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