The central theme is a debate surrounding the desirability and feasibility of ending human death, with a focus on whether human existence should be prioritized above all else, especially in the context of advancing artificial intelligence.
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Rich and poor, whatever nation, it is
the single thing that humans want.
Nobody wants to die right now.
>> What have you done to change those
brutal conditions in society? You're a
person who has literally hundreds of
millions of dollars and you spend $2
million every year trying to look
younger. And honestly, you look your age.
age.
>> Hi, my name is Brian Johnson. I've spent
millions of dollars [music] trying to
reverse and slow down my biological
aging. I've also swapped blood with my
son. Today, I'm surrounded by 20
My first claim, ending death should be
>> Hi, I'm Brighton.
>> Hi, Brighton.
>> Nice to meet you.
>> How you doing?
>> I'm doing well. First off, I want to say
thank you so much for being here. I'm
super honored to get the chance to talk
to you. Uh, I hope this can be an
opportunity where I can learn, where you
can learn, and where we can teach the
audience something. I'm not trying to
prove you wrong, but I also don't want
to misconrue your words. So, why do you
think ending death should be humanity's
top priority?
>> Because I think this moment we live in
is really special. We are giving birth
to super intelligence. We all know that
AI is moving very quickly and we don't
quite know what exactly it is, but it's
big and it's fast. And so the suggestion
I have is that in this moment when we're
giving birth to super intelligence that
we are wise to transition our focus from
a world where we value death to one
where we say we are the first generation
who won't die. That basically we're
saying we value existence above all
other things. So it's basically a
contemplation of if you're human on
planet earth in this part of the galaxy
what does intelligent life do when
you're giving birth to super
intelligence? We say existence. That is
the number one thing we care about.
>> Right. So you have a faith in AI to get
us to reach the point where we can avoid
death and there is no I would say
there's no concrete evidence right now
that we have that that we can end death.
You're kind of basing that off of the
empirical data and the studies regarding
AI's progression. Is that correct?
>> That's correct.
>> Okay. So I've heard you say before that
religion is is a thing created to kind
of make death okay and make the idea of
death not as scary and that humans are
very clever. Wouldn't you say that your
faith in AI's progression to end death
is kind of that same argument, that same
faith just to avoid death as a whole?
>> Yeah, it's a good point. So, what I say
is that uh humans have always died. Up
until this point, uh there's an end of
life. And when end of life happens,
people have been coming up with reasons
of why it's a good thing for hundreds of
thousands of years. And so, the idea may
be you'll be reincarnated. Maybe there's
a heaven. may be that you will achieve
immortality in what you do and you'll be
remembered for for your deeds as a
soldier or a entrepreneur or a poet or
politician. And so people have always
sought a form of immortality indeed or
in this life or the afterlife. And so
what I'm saying is this is actually the
first time in human history where a
reasonable person could say we may be
the first generation who won't die and
not be left out of the room. Now you're
right. There is no evidence we can
actually do it. But you know some
biological species like species of the
jellyfish and the hydra have achieved
immortality. So we know biology has
solved for immortality just not in the
human species but it has been solved for.
for.
>> Right. So kind of to shift the topic a
little bit that is also based off the
assumption that death is a bad thing
because we don't know if death is a good
thing. And I I'm not saying you're
necessarily wrong about the creations of
religion but we can't kind of make that
decision ourselves whether death is a
good or bad thing. I would say the
creation of religion, if it is based off
of a fear, it's less less based off of
fear of death and more based off of a
fear of the unknown. And I would say
that that's kind of two sides of the
same coin when we're running away from
death and we're trying to do everything
we can to avoid death, but that's just
because we don't know. What would you
say about that?
>> Yeah, I'm saying that the reason why I
would identify defeating death as
humanity's number one objective is
because we have embraced it as part of
our daily lives. When somebody stays up
late and misses their bedtime, when they
eat a pint of ice cream before bed, when
they get very drunk, when they smoke
cigarettes, when they eat uh toxic
foods, those things are a form of death.
When companies that make addictive
algorithms that make addictive foods,
when they make those things, they're
profiting off of your death. And so,
what I'm saying is we have built a world
built on the profit of death and on
people seeking death. That's the
environment in which we're giving birth
to super intelligence. That's what I'm
identifying is that's the danger. We
don't want to bring in our new computer
companions, our new AI companions and
say we are a species that values death.
We want to say we are a species that
values existence.
>> Right? So I've heard you say before, I
think Lester Green said this and you
said this, that existence is the highest
virtue. And I would argue that a
positive existence is the highest
virtue. And that would mean that our top
priority should then be ending suffering
so that we can promote a good and
enjoyable life rather than just avoiding death.
death.
>> Yeah. The the challenge with saying a
positive existence is that your version
of positive may be different than
someone else's positive. And when two
humans agree on their versions of a
given idea, they typically kill each
other, right?
>> Or it results in very serious violence.
And so don't die is actually the single
thing that every human on the planet can
agree to every second of every day.
Everyone agrees don't die right now. But
I would argue that it's not about not
dying because why people have that
feeling is because there's an urgency to
live tomorrow because we die. I would
argue that urgency comes out of the fact
that our life ends and that's why we
want to continue to live is because we
have that end point and that's why
tomorrow matters so much and I want to
exist tomorrow. If death didn't exist
then we may not have that same feeling
of I want to exist tomorrow. Many people
have looked back through history and you
see that there were ideas about reality
of things that people wanted to do uh or
justified and norms changed. For
example, universal human rights uh as an
example, right? Or ending of slavery.
Those were ideas that people believed
fervently in that time and place. Now
they're gone. They're no longer part of
our zeitgeist. And right now death is
seen as inevitable. It's acceptable.
It's even desirable for some. That is an
idea that is is really going to uh be
challenged in this moment.
>> Thank you. Excuse me. Excuse me.
>> Hey, how you doing?
>> Good. How are you, bro?
>> All right. So, my name is Sean. Uh I'm a
philosopher and author. I know you're
into the philosophy game. So, you
mentioned uh the ending of slavery, the
ending of some of these ideas, of some
of these constructs. Correct. So, you're
speaking about endings, right? And your
your entire brand is don't die. So,
let's say a season never ended. summer
for for example then what happens what
would happen conjecturually what would
happen to our our planet
>> yeah so hi Sean
>> hi [laughter]
>> so I'm I'm glad uh to speak to a
philosopher I'm an aspiring philosopher
>> I think you made it bro [laughter]
>> yeah this is really you look back
through western thought and you say we
begin with Plato and Aristotle we go
through Christianity medieval times uh
renaissance enlightenment modern day
scientific era there are these time
periods with very big ideas like how we are
are
>> and we are due for a major change in
ideology as a species.
>> And right now the thing that really runs
the world is profit.
>> We will do anything to make money. We'll
do anything for status and power.
>> That has some negative consequences in
terms of what we build and how we do it.
That in the pursuit of profit, people
are willing to kill themselves. They're
willing to die for it. They're willing to
to
>> make other people die so that they can
die. We just have this culture where we
pursue death with this vigor and we
justify it. And so as we give birth to
artificial intelligence in this moment
the argument is we may want to sober up
and say is this the right vibe to
introduce super intelligence or should
we be open to this brand new possibility
that actually we may have this
possibility of being the first
generation who won't die. Now we don't
know what happens after.
>> Okay. But maybe it's our our move to do that.
that.
>> So there's there's two things there,
right? So one is that we don't know what
happens after, but we have all of this
passion to get to this place that we
don't know what's going to happen. And
that's not completely true. So we do
understand that if there are there's if
there's a species that doesn't go
extinct, that none of them ever die, the
planet literally becomes inhabitable. If
there's bees that never die, what
happens to the ecosystem? If there's a
plant species that never dies, what
happens to the ecosystem? So, I
understand there's this idea of like,
oh, we're walking into this kind of
glorious unknown where all of the ideas
are at our fingertips. We've actually
seen some of the evidence and some of
the uh the measurements, I guess you can
say, as to what happens when a species
doesn't continue to perish, to turn
over. Part of like the way that the
planet works, right, is the turnover.
Summer becomes another season, winter
becomes another season. Everything's in
transformation, I guess. What do you say
about that? When you think about the
fact that let's say don't die becomes
this worldwide thing and no one wants to
die, how does that not cause an
inhability issue with our planet and our environment?
environment?
>> Yeah, you make a great point and I think
we've kind of been on this trajectory
for a while where when we created
vaccines, we started figuring out can we
actually buttress disease. When we
figured out how to fight cancer, can you
actually stop these accelerating
diseases? So we've started to have the
ability to engineer biology and our
outside world with increasing precision, right?
right?
>> And that opens up all these
possibilities to say, well, if we're
trying to just cure, you know, solve not
dying today, can we solve for not dying
tomorrow and the next day? So this is
not an argument that we know what's
going to happen over the next few
hundred years is just to say that right
now this is potentially an existential
moment for the human race. Okay?
>> And we may want to do a vibe check. Are
we all so certain about this die thing?
we may want to sober up and say actually
what we really value is we just want to
hang tight and see what happens as we
enter this new era of being human
>> and hanging tight and and seeing what
the new era is going to be is one thing
a t-shirt that says don't die and and
don't die today is different than immortality
immortality >> yes
>> yes
>> I'm sure you you'd agree with that right
>> and we all know that you're you have the
means to kind of buy into this idea and
this concept a little more deeply than
probably the average person I've heard
you mention the five core power laws and
how that's kind of what's accessible to
everyone. And what I'm kind of what I'm
gathering is that there's going to be
super wealthy people that can buy into
the degree that you can and everyone
else gets a little bit healthier, I
guess. What's how would you
>> Yeah. What I'm trying to do is um I used
to eat fast food, >> right?
>> right?
>> And I did it because it was just a thing
we did in our culture and fast food is
really bad for you. And then I learned
that these companies use the very best
science to actually make you addicted. Mhm.
Mhm.
>> And so what I'm arguing is it's not for
a few rich people. This is society is
systematically killing itself. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And I think that's a bad thing for everybody.
everybody.
>> Society is systematically killing itself
and that's a bad thing for everyone.
What do you feel about sovereignty and
personal choice?
>> Hi Brian. My name is Chelsea Gods and I
sit across from you today. I think I'm
going to say the thing that a lot of
people in the circle are thinking. It's
easy when you're rich to care about not dying.
dying.
>> Most people spend all day every day also
caring about not dying because they're
living paycheck to paycheck.
>> 60% of Americans live paycheck to
paycheck. Being poor is the story of
humanity across the whole globe. I think
listening to a man who doesn't know what
it's like, how he's going to make rent
next month, that to some of us, it feels pretty
pretty
strange to hear you tell us that we're
not focused on being alive. I think
every person here is struggling to be
alive every single day. I think most
people in this country are struggling to
be alive every single day. And when they
smoke a cigarette, it's not about
whether they want to die. It's about
enjoying that moment. I'm talking to a
man who publicly [laughter]
has said that you eat pured food every
day and you're telling me, a normal
human being who is like everyone else,
struggling financially and whatnot, how
I should be living my life. And I think
there's something that's really
disconnected about that. I also think
that it's really false of you to claim
that people are focusing their life on
dying when really all of us are focusing
on surviving. That's why we're here.
Every one of us is here today because
we're surviving. We don't go to
McDonald's and think, "Oh, this is
killing me." We go to McDonald's because
we don't have enough time in the day to
make dinner. Because we can't afford to
go to the grocery store and buy a $20
steak because we can't shop at Airwan
and get $40 of strawberries. You know,
so I think a lot of us are here
wondering what does you, a person who's
rich, who doesn't know what struggle is
like and who also talks about the fact
that you use your own son's blood
>> have to add to us as humanity.
>> Yeah. Hi, Chelsea. >> Hey.
>> Hey.
>> Yeah. I I grew up uh with four other
siblings, single mom. My mother made my
clothes uh because we didn't have enough
money for her to buy clothes for me. I
went to school and I got made fun of
because my clothes didn't fit and they
were awkward. Uh, I didn't have money my
entire life. Uh, I became an
entrepreneur. I struggled for 14 years
with no money whatsoever. So, I
understand what it feels like to have no
money. I even know what it feels like to
be poor. So, I've been through that. I
also was chronically depressed for 10
years. I wanted to commit suicide
desperately. I really would have commit
committed suicide had it not been for my
three kids. I felt like I had a
responsibility to them. So, I understand
struggle. I understand pain. I was, you
know, 50 pounds overweight. I was in a
terrible shape. And so I understand what
it's like to be that way. My argument is
not to criticize you or anyone else.
What I'm arguing is that companies have
built their products to make you
addicted and to make you ill. That's
that's the core thing I'm trying to say
is that the most powerful economic
engine in all of history, the American
uh economic engine has pointed itself at
creating addictive foods and phones and
social media and porn and junk food.
>> Do you not think that you're addicted to
trying to stay alive? Do you not think
that that's an addiction? Do you think
not doing face fat, like fat injections
in your face, constantly doing plastic
surgery, do you not see that as an
addiction yourself?
>> Uh, no. I view I view it as a pursuit in
we're trying to figure out how
>> so if I change the name of my addictions
to a pursuit then maybe you'll think
that it's socially acceptable.
>> Uh I think that we share something in
common that neither one of us wants to
die in this moment.
>> I mean not today but sometime hopefully
you know hopefully.
>> Yeah. And I think that a lot of people
would change their opinion and want to
exist if the conditions of society were
not so brutal. It's not fair for
>> What have you done to change those
brutal conditions in society? You're a
person who has literally hundreds of
millions of dollars and you spend $2
million every year trying to look
younger and honestly you look your age.
>> Like that's the reality. And I'm not
even the first person to say that. So
what are you doing to make humanity
better really other than pursuing your
own vanity?
>> Yeah. Well, I share everything I learn
from all the scientific evidence with
everybody for free.
>> But it's scientific evidence from your
own body, right? So the study isn't
terribly useful to the general
population because a black woman isn't
going to have the same biometrics as a
48-year-old white man. So, I mean, in
some ways, it's kind of a selfish
pursuit that you're trying to make it
seem like it's altruistic. I feel like
that's the disingenuous part of this
conversation is that you're coming at it
from an argument of altruism, but I see
it, and I think a lot of people in this
room today see it as selfishness and
greed to try and hold on to life as much
as you can. So much so, that you bragged
about using your teenage son's blood,
which I have to tell you, history is not
going to be kind about that. Nobody
thinks about that woman in the Turkish
royalty who bathed in handmaiden's blood
and has a positive feeling about that. I
don't think anyone is going to read
about you in the future and be like,
"Oh, wasn't that great? Wasn't that
awesome that Brian Johnson used his own
teenage son's blood to make himself
younger?" No one's going to feel that way.
way.
>> So, two things. One is the evidence is
based upon population level evidence.
It's not on Brian Johnson. It's not
48-year-old males. It's population level
evidence where you can make conclusions
like 7 to 8 hours a night of sleep is
good for.
>> And that's something that rich people
get to do and poor people don't get to
do. Do you think rich people are working
overnight shifts? They're not.
>> Yeah. You need to give me a little space
to respond.
>> Sure. Of course.
>> Okay. So, the other thing you were
saying about my son's blood. So, the
reason that came about is my father is
now in his early 70s. He has cognitive
decline. He called me one day and he
said, "Brian, I'm suffering that I can't
now complete basic work projects. I'm
losing my mind and I'm terrified. I
said, "Dad, my team and I are doing
research on cognitive decline. There's a
new therapy of change exchanging plasma.
If it would be helpful to you, I'd be
happy to do this." So, I did the plasma
exchange for my dad because he's losing
his mind. Now, my son said, "Hey, Brian,
dad, if you're doing this, I'm happy to
do it, too. We'll make it a
trigenerational thing." It wasn't me and
my son. It was me doing it for my
father. The press, of course, makes
headlines of that and they make you
believe that I'm a nefarious actor.
That's not the case. But it's not really
just the press doing that because you
walked into this room and that was one
of the very first things you said about
yourself. You wore it like a badge of
honor. And I think that you do that
because it's controversial. To sit there
and say that that label is given to you
by the press is a little bit
disingenuous because you gave that label
to yourself and you did it to be
shocking. You did it to make headlines
yourself. So to put that onto the press
I actually think is really disingenuous. >> Thanks.
>> Hi
>> Brianna. Hi, Brianna. Nice to meet you.
>> Nice to meet you, Brian. So, there's a
few things that you've said. I just
would like to touch on what the first
thing is. Uh, your focus about the
industry. Um, focusing on death. I do
agree with a previous debater that the
focus on living is also taking away from
any true living. Um, as a human, I value
the experiences I have with my friends,
with my partners. Um, even the
experiences of lessons learned in life,
which sometimes do include fast food,
sometimes do include those things that
you were doing to your body and damaged
yourself. However, looking back, I can't
see where it is that you yourself have
found this fixation that death is the
total destruction. We as humans have
always kind of chose destruction. And
then we value life through that. And I
wonder what your position is when I
bring these points to you.
>> I think under, you know, when death is
inevitable, people yolo their way to
death, you know, like I might as well
then do the following things, the
following debaucherous things because it
makes me feel something.
>> And that's been something we've done.
We've basically made these debaucherous
acts of death virtues
>> where it's seen as a positive thing in
someone's life. And so an accusation I
get all the time is like, "Brian, you're
not living." And why am I not living?
Because I'm not staying up late and I'm
not drinking alcohol and I'm not
smoking. I'm not eating fast food. And
they're like, "You're not living. You're
missing out on life." >> Right?
>> Right?
>> And I, you know, try to explain that
that's really a misconception that we
all know once you eat a fast food meal,
you feel terrible.
>> No one's winning and doing that. And so
I'm saying that right now, this is a
special moment. If we weren't giving
birth to super intelligence, if that
wasn't some kind of things happening in
the moment, I'd say like, sure, like, do
your thing, whatever. This moment is
special. And when we're bringing that
intelligence into the world, when we
value death, we're sending the wrong
signals as a species. We treat planet
Earth the same way we treat our bodies.
>> So we are a species that that has
embraced and seeks after death and it
ruins our health, our individual health,
our societal health. I mean for example,
you look at the current number of people
on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety
meds. You look at people who are lonely,
the suicide rates. We are a sick
society. And that to me is what people
are starting to say. let's celebrate
that that's life and I'm saying that is
not life like this is not a good
situation everyone's in pain and
suffering so let's let's address that
>> so I absolutely agree with you actually
however what I do see again is that
through these things of comfort as
you've kind of called them right we do
that because we're still living in
between those times those bursts of
moments that we have with people we've
chosen to drink yes do I agree that
that's good no I'm like don't do it you
don't feel good the next day. But the
connection is how we joke about that,
how we all kind of iron sharpens iron
and we learn from that. We pass those
lessons on and we continue to grow as a
society. One thing that you mentioned
was nature. I love that because I really
struggled through your uh conversation
earlier with a prior debater about
life and the philosophical points of it.
Um polarity is a science that we adhere
to. um there has to be polarity in this
process. I think it was uh described
more as like a seasonal right however
for me it's the polarity without death
you don't know life and if we only have
life continuing that process such as you
mentioned the earth would be interrupted
I think that that is something that is
not worth the unmeasurable time that we
would need to even determine whether
that's something that we can do I also
feel that it
>> thank you My next claim is that we may
>> How you doing?
>> Wonderful. Wonderful. Wonderful. Nice to
finally meet you. >> Likewise.
>> Likewise.
>> So, uh, let's start it off by saying,
um, I'm glad that you chose life. You
were trying to unal alive yourself
before, right?
>> That's right.
>> What was the purpose of that? What What
was going on psychologically that got
you to that point? Yeah, I meant I
wasn't sleeping. I was overweight. I was
stressed out of my mind. I was up all
night with my kids. Uh I was leaving my
born religion. I was having challenges
with my partner. Like life was just
falling apart. I had no money. I was in
debt. I just it was a really challenging
moment and I didn't know where to go to
find hope.
>> So what hope what what hope did you
find? because I heard that you uh
actually had a conversation with a
interviewer that you stated that a book
that you read by Robert what was his
last name?
>> Oh uh Albert Kamu Albert Kamu.
>> Yeah the philosopher. Yeah.
>> Right. Right. Right. So what was it in
his book that gave you the hope again
that faith?
>> Uh he basically said that he explored
all of existential philosophy and he
said there really is no meaning to life
that once you realize that it's just
play. like you just you're happy that
you exist and the fact that we exist,
let's just make the most of it, >> right?
>> right?
>> And I felt relieved that I didn't need
to have an answer or a reason that I I
find myself conscious. I don't know why.
>> It's kind of a weird experience, but you
know, trying to do my very best with
what I have.
>> Conscious. So with your consciousness,
you decided to live. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. So you still found a meaning
though, right?
>> Yes. That's a good point. And I guess
like this is the thing that uh we are a
a species that loves meaning and purpose
and um at that moment I didn't really
have a purpose or meaning and it was
trying to find reconciliation that just
being alive is okay.
>> Do you believe that uh the purpose was
already there you just needed to tap in?
>> Yeah. I think purpose is probably
abundant that we can all find it and it
drives us but
>> do you believe in choice?
>> I do.
>> So do you believe people have the choice
to not want to live too? Yes.
>> And they can choose that. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> So what do you do about those people?
>> Give them choice.
>> Give them a choice. So if they want to,
let's say they were in your position and
they wanted to to live more, what do you
say about them? I mean to to not live
more, what do you say about them?
>> That's their choice.
>> Do you believe that a person could also
perish and a new entity can grow and
evolve as well? Is the information that
you're getting? So what let's just say
we're living and um if we continue to
keep living, there's no new information.
Do you believe that? Sure.
>> Okay. So, with there's the new
information, don't you think that
something eventually needs to perish so
something new can grow?
>> Uh, not always. Yeah. I think that Yeah.
I think that um we are in this new era
where we will be able to extend our
lifespans to degrees which would maybe
surprise us and that when that happens,
we will all just take it day by day and
and our norms will evolve and we'll
naturally get accustomed to 100 year
lifespans, 150, 200. That's a
possibility. Not saying it's guaranteed, but
but
>> Well, here's the thing. You're 498.
>> Uh 48.
>> 48. I'm 41. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. I don't look it right.
>> You look great. Good job.
>> So, I Thank you. I smoke. I don't drink
no more. I barely sleep. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, what? What? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Suggestions cuz I'm okay. You all right?
>> Yeah. Okay. I'm Matt. Okay.
Okay.
Hey man,
>> how you doing? Aiden,
>> good to meet you.
>> That was a powerful takeoff.
>> I appreciate it. Must be doing something.
something.
>> Track or something. No.
>> Yeah. Um, not tracking my health
unfortunately. But, um, so I would
before I get into what I disagree with
you about your claim on, I would like
for you to elaborate. What do you mean
by or actually
>> I would hypothesize that the reason you
say we may be the first generation does
not exist is kind of what you talked
about a little previously. Yeah.
>> Um, on super intelligence. Is that kind
of accurate or do you think that there's
another reason that humanity would be
able to defeat death in this generation?
>> That's right. Yeah, I think artificial
intelligence will be the key. Yes.
>> Okay. So, two thing three things off the
top of my head. The first is I don't
actually think that science is
progressing at the rate at which you
would say that it is.
>> Um the second is I don't think that not
dying is a good will to live. meaning
>> I think that when you start to say my
life's purpose is to keep living then
you lose your will to live. But I'll go
a little bit into the first one first.
The first reason that I don't think
science is progressing as fast as we say
it is and I don't think that super
intelligence um will play into a role of
this. But if you look at for example
health trends like you would be a vegan
right? Is that correct?
>> Um I don't yeah I don't actually
subscribe to that that word. Okay.
>> I follow you. Tell me about your diet.
What do you eat?
>> Uh, a lot of, uh, legumes, extravirgin
olive oil, berries, nuts, seeds,
>> what do you think about the keto diet,
for example?
>> Great. Just, you know, anyone can do
anything they want. I mean, anyone can
do anything they want.
>> Just measure your bioarkers and make
sure your body's happy. But I don't I
don't subscribe to the idea of carnivore
versus vegan or keto versus paleo. I
think they're they're too abstract. The
more re relevant thing is to eat what
you want,
>> measure your body, and see if your
body's happy. So okay then we don't
necessarily have to talk about diet but
the rate at which science is progressing
if you look at and this is the case for
not just health this is the case for a
lot of different areas of study is that
there is so much that we have yet to
discover I'll give you an example I
would probably say that for most people
um and I think that we can probably
agree on this like not eating um fruits
vegetables legumes for example would
probably not be the best like if you
were just to eat ground beef all day
would that be probably like for the 90%
of the population that probably wouldn't
be a good health choice right
>> you know again I'm impartial so people
can do whatever they want
>> I'll give you an example >> okay
>> okay
>> if you look at lots of health trends
from a couple of years back you know
like six seven years ago you had the or
even 10 years ago you had like the um
the keto diet you had lots of these
different diets but also studies are
constantly being published so
>> and it's very difficult to say how much
of science we have yet to explore I did
plug this to like JPT the other day and
they said like 80 to 90% of science has
yet to be discovered.
>> That's right.
>> So if you're coming from the mind of we
will be the first generation not to die
but we've only explored 10% of what is
actually going to keep you healthy. How
do you know that 10 years from now what
you're doing for your regimen
>> is going to be completely detrimental?
>> Yeah. How exciting is that?
>> What do you mean?
>> It's great. Right. [laughter]
It means we have this frontier of new
knowledge that we're about to discover.
I mean, nothing would make me happier.
This is why this moment is so exciting.
It's why it's why I think it warrants
suspending all of our ideas is we stand
on the precipice of this amazing new era
where we may discover all these things
which are dramatically going to improve
our health.
>> So take for example the drug ripomiasin.
We I believe you were taking
ripomosinas. Was that okay? So how long
are you taking that for?
>> Five years.
>> Okay. And why'd you stop taking it? uh
the side effect profile and some new
evidence that came out.
>> Okay. That new evidence having to do
with like cholesterol and ulcers etc. Right.
Right.
>> Uh usually methylation clocks to look at
speed of aging.
>> Right. Exactly. So how do you know that
everything that you're doing right now
in your regimen is not going to be
completely different from 20 years ago
for sorry 20 years from now.
>> I don't think that we will be able to
say that with certainty. And so maybe
you could make the claim that five
generations from now we might be able to
extend our health maybe to 120 200
years. I don't even think that's
possible, but I think that's an entirely
different claim.
>> I think you're right. I don't think >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Did you just jump?
>> I did. I did track.
>> Good to see you.
>> Pleasure to meet you. And honestly, it's
an honor and pleasure to connect with
you in person. I first watched your docu
couple years ago when it came out. I
even took screenshots of everything you
were doing and I was like, what is this
guy doing? It really opened my mind to
what death could be versus just what the
Bible says. Um, I want to talk more
about the structure of what world we'd
have to live in in order for this to be
doable. Um, is this something that
you're saying everyone should be doing
or is this just a choice you have
blueprint if you want to live longer,
you know, or if you don't, you can just
keep doing what you're doing.
>> Yeah. I think it's kind of like when the
United States of America became a
country, we said uh we like the idea of
life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness. It was this new idea of like
how does a society build itself? And
what I'm saying now is it's kind of like
a rebirth for the human race. What does
it mean to exist? What do we value? What
do we do?
>> And I'm saying that this is a moment
where we can have a new imagination
about our existence we've never had before.
before.
>> And that is that we may be the first
generation who won't die. And now when
that happens, it causes us to reflect on
everything we do in our lives now. Okay?
>> And so, you know, it's really like a
reflective moment. I'm just saying it's
really this new opening and it's a new
way to think about ourselves.
>> Okay? So, I come from the personal
training, strength and conditioning
world. I tell my clients it's all about
health span, longevity. You want to have
proper nutrition, proper sleep, you want
to uh resistance train as well.
>> Those are all great. But if we all to
live forever, how does then that look
like populationwise? like is everyone
just going to the population is just
going to increase increase. We can
barely even take care of the planet we
live in. We're looking at living on
Mars. How would we then share how would
we what is your perspective in that
world and also religion? You know 85% of
the world is religious Christianity,
Buddhism, Islam. Um and death is such a
big cornerstone of that. I know you were
Mormon as well and you ran away from
that. [laughter]
So what are your p what are your
thoughts on I guess the structure of
that when most of the world is so around death?
death?
>> Yeah. I mean um first is I'm not arguing
for immortality.
>> I'm arguing for don't die. I'm arguing
that we say existence is the highest
virtue and that we build society
according to that. Two is that
oftentimes the problems we think are
problems are not the problems that
actually become the problems. So for
example in New York horses were the
primary mode of transportation and there
was horse manure all over New York. goes
in the Hudson River is on the streets.
It was such a gigantic problem, people
were panicking. They said, "What do we
do to solve this problem?" So Henry Ford
built a model Model T. Then cars came
and horse manure went away because
horses went away. So horse manure was
not actually a problem because the Model
T solved that problem. Now the Model T
created other problems. We have roads
and pollution. So sometimes the things
we think are going to be the biggest
challenges turn out to not be the
challenge. Now I don't know what's going
to happen to the population. Now we have
a challenge where we have a population
collapse. So we're actually on the
opposite side of that. Our fertility
markers have dropped by 50% over the
past 50 years. So if anything, we have a
really serious worry about our
population. So it just like this comes
and goes. Sometimes we are worried on
one side of the other. But this is
really a moment where I'm saying that as
as much as we can, we want to embrace
existence. That's the thing that's most
precious for everybody.
>> Okay. Another question. Are you happy?
I've I've never been happier in my
entire life. And that is a genuine
answer. And this is what I'm I I really
want to like be with you on this. Like I
wish somebody would have been in my life
to say,
>> "Let me give you some basic tips on how
to achieve good sleep, how to avoid bad
foods, like how to have the willpower to
these things." I didn't have that in my
life. And that's really the role I'm
trying to play in people's lives is like
the good friend that is there to
encourage them to make good life choices.
choices.
>> Got it. Thank you. Pleasure to meet you.
Good to see you. [music]
>> Alec.
>> Hi, Alec.
>> I'm pretty good. So, I could be getting
over my head talking about this, but um
I I saw that you you had some data where
you were like, I have like the lungs of
a 30 something year old or heart of a
20, right? Um can you elaborate first on
with that specific thing that I'm
talking about?
>> Yeah. So the idea is that if you have a
90-year-old person next to a 10-year-old
person, you know who's 90 and who's 10. >> Sure.
>> Sure.
>> Based upon the quality of their skin and
you like their general mobility and so
there's an idea of biological age and
chronological age. And so for example,
I'm 48 but my left ear is age 64.
>> Why your left ear? Is that just a
example or
>> Example? Yeah, exactly. So I have mild
to moderate hearing loss in my left ear
because I listened to loud music as a
kid and I also shot guns
>> without hearing protection.
>> Right. And so that dramatically ages my
left ear. So everything I talk about,
I'm trying to say like if you do blank,
you know, like poor sleep or eat bad
food or uh doom scroll right before bed,
>> yeah, it could affect certain things.
>> Yeah, exactly. It accelerates aging in
the body.
>> So I can agree with you on every single
body part except for the brain.
>> I don't think you said we're going to
have the uh first person's uh we're the
first generation where we're going to
live forever or there could be someone
here that would live forever. I don't I
don't agree with that because I don't
think the science is there to either
replace a brain, right? Especially
because I think I think out of I'm not a
religious person. I don't think you are either.
either.
>> Uh I I think the brain is what makes us
who we are, not our soul. I don't know.
I if you needed a brain transplant, you
I don't think we can do that. We can't
take your brain and put it somewhere.
But even if we did, that's a whole Is
that actually Brian? Is it not? Um, so
how are you going to stop the brain from
like deteriorating? Like I don't think
you can do that. There is no science
that can do that.
>> Yeah, your point is valid and that is
correct. On current science, we do not
know how to do that. Also, throughout
history, history is a story of
impossible things becoming possible. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And so, while we can't see a path now, I
don't rule it out that we may find a
path to be able to uh restore brain
capacity or reverse the aging of the
brain. Now, we don't know again how to
do it, but I think it's worth us saying
this is really important. we should try.
>> I think there's a difference between
saying it's really important and we
should try versus oh yeah they're like
it's it is you know like I know the
claim technically said there maybe. So
you're kind of you're kind of leaving
yourself a little wiggle room but I
would make my claim would be it's not. I
know that technology is always advancing
but I mean if like if my brain got
separated the spinal cord and the brain
like you couldn't possibly reconnect
that in a way where it would work. Um,
so once your brain goes, I think you're
done. Um, and I don't I mean, as far as
I know, there's no way to stop a brain
from aging.
>> Yeah. And your voice is good. Criticism
is good. And that's how science moves
forward. And so there's going to be
people who don't believe it and there
are people who try to do it. And there's
going to be the continuence. So what I'm
saying is whether we believe it or not,
>> science is going to move forward. And it
may actually do it.
>> May actually do it. [sighs]
>> I mean, I I guess I can't really say
anything else, but I mean like, yeah,
>> All right. So, the claim is we might be
the first generation to not die. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I would assert that we are already late
to the party. So, you did a lot of time
in the church. It's not unlike
every other church. I believe that all
religions have something in common and
where they meet in the middle is where
we should be meeting in the middle. Now,
one thing that all religions have are
legit texts pre flood, pre great flood
>> of humans
living forever or at least thousands of
years. For instance, the the Samrian
kings list.
>> They have guys ruling for over 40,000 years.
years.
>> So, how do we explain that?
>> Right. I I don't have the answer. And
like the last guy said,
>> science isn't there. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. This is your pursuit. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Is would you say immortality or living
longer? Like how would you like
specifically define your pursuit?
>> I'm saying something really simple,
>> right? I'm saying that under any normal
circumstance on planet Earth, you yolo
your way to whatever game you're playing,
playing,
>> right? Whether you're building a
business, whether you're a politician,
whether you're a parent, like whatever
you do, I'm saying right now is
different in all times of history.
>> We are giving birth to super
intelligence, a form of intelligence
that exceeds our capacity to understand.
>> When that happens, all things change and
that includes our possibilities. M
>> that includes the possibility that we
may not be we may not die. And so I'm
saying this is the moment where we check
ourselves to say this moment may be different.
different.
>> So may not die physically in the body.
Is that what you're saying?
>> That's right.
>> But you're saying that we would be
potentially the first generation to do that.
that. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> But I'm saying every culture has already
proven you wrong.
>> Yeah. Except for they're not here, right?
right?
>> They're not here.
>> They're not here. And I would assert
that the reason why they're not here is
that death is actually earned through a
life well-lived. >> Uhhuh.
>> Uhhuh.
>> That I think that I believe that death
is actually a promotion in life. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And that this life here to assert that
we should um attempt to stay here
indefinitely is to kind of stay in the
spiritual sandbox and not choose to go
to the next grade. And that's great. All
I'm suggesting is you procrastinate.
>> Explain that.
>> Procrastinate death, right? Like what's
the rush,
>> right? I get it. Well, nobody wants to
die in this moment. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> And I would I would assert that since we
don't don't die in this moment, we
haven't earned our death and that we all
have a purpose here.
>> And I believe that yours is is honest
and I like what you're doing and I
respect it. And if you weren't doing it,
we all wouldn't be here today. So, I do
appreciate that with the rhetoric of the
claim, there's already been generations
that have lived forever. And you know
why they're not here? I think they
decided it was a bad idea to live forever.
forever.
>> It was a bad idea. We have overpopulation.
overpopulation.
>> How do you deal with that?
>> There's not enough resources. Things are
finite. And these meat bags that we're
walking around in >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> They rot,
you know. Yeah.
Yeah,
>> the pilot. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> we don't rot. Immortality comes through
the echo of a life well-lived.
>> And I commend you for years.
>> And you as well, friend. Wishing you the
best on that. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> My next claim is that no one should ever
eat fast food. [music]
>> Hi, Brian. It's me, Chelsea Gods again.
Obviously, I didn't know this about us.
It turns out we actually have something
more in common than I thought, which is
that we're both billionaires. Just
kidding. I'm not. Uh, it's that we're
both ex Mormons. So, I do think that's
really funny because I recognize a lot
of ex Mormon tendencies in you because
moderation is a huge part of that
religion. So, it's funny that I feel
like you haven't
>> that you took one thing and you changed
it into, you know, being obsessed with
your health. The claim that nobody
should ever eat fast food is an easy
claim to make when groceries are
affordable to you. The claim that you
can never eat fast food is an easy claim
to make when you're not working double
shifts, when you're not working
overnight. The reality is the reason why
people eat fast food is not just because
they like it. It's because their
lifestyle doesn't lend to the ability to
spend time either purchasing expensive
healthy food or preparing the food
themselves because time is such a
constraint in modern society. I think
that a lot of the things that you claim,
as much as you try and sound egalitarian,
egalitarian,
generally are for the wealthy. I think
not eating fast food is a habit that
wealthy people have. We're here in LA.
No one who lives in Beverly Hills is
eating fast food, but all the normal
people who are showing up to
construction sites every day, they are
because that's what real life looks
like. And I think that there's something
very classist about a rich person
telling a bunch of regular people,"Well,
you guys, you shouldn't have fast food."
Well, that's easy for you to say when
you always can have food on your table.
That's an easy claim when you always
have food on your table. So, what do you
say about that? That I'm I'm saying that
this is a classist claim. So, I'm saying
that um fast food companies have used
the best science to create the perfectly
addictive food with the right amount of
fats, proteins, and sugars. It hits a
peak dopamine moment in the brain. So,
they are addicting people to their food.
It is a methodical process and when
people eat that, they get themselves in
a vicious cycle.
>> So, you think people are addicted to Subway?
Subway?
>> Yeah. So just give me a give me a beat
to explain this concept. Um and so what
happens is people get in this vicious
cycle of addiction and I think that's
bad. And so as a as a starting principle
this is let's just put aside for a
moment uh a person's circumstances.
>> It is
>> that's easy for you to say
>> it it is not good for society to poison
its people. It's not good to consume
poison. Now if we establish that as a
baseline the next step becomes then how
do we feed ourselves? What are our
norms? I agree with you that is a very
challenging problem. Again I have been
in this situation. I have been poor a
substantial portion of my life without
the ability. So this is my my I just
made money very recently in my life. I
was poor for most my life. So the thing
you're saying I get it. I've been there.
I've done it.
>> So what's your solution then? Yeah, you
it you can actually buy food. You can
actually prepare food. You can take food
with you. It is not.
>> So you are suggesting that people who
have a very limited constraint on time
can do the things that you can do. And
again, I profer that that is just simply
not the case.
>> It's not the thing. So I'm not
suggesting people can do what I do. What
I'm saying is as a society, we should
stop demanding
poison and we should punish the
companies who are who are giving us
poison. It it makes everyone worse.
>> Okay, I'm going to be real here. I
actually love fast food. In fact, I eat
it probably at least once every two
weeks. I spent a significant portion of
my adult life as a vegetarian. So, a lot
of my time from the ages of 20 to age 37
were spent limiting what kind of food I
put into my body. And I can tell you
that as a person who no longer is a
vegetarian and no longer limits my diet,
I'm happier when I'm not constantly
thinking about food all the time, I am
more satisfied in my existence. I think
encouraging people to spend a
significant portion of their time being
stressed about their diet is actually
counterintuitive to what you claim to be
a proponent for, which is life. Because
I think constantly being worried about
every single thing that we put in our
bodies can actually have really negative
impacts on our psyche and our
well-being. And as a person who again
spent 17 years reading the ingredients
of everything, pouring over what was in
a package that I was eating, I can tell
you that the freedom that I feel not
having to think about that is actually
wonderful. And do I like fast food? Hell
yeah, I do. Do I eat it all the time?
No. I think that moderation is an
important part of life. So, not only do
I think that there's like a classist
part of this, I also think there's a
enjoyment part of this. And in some
ways, I I know that you've been told by
other people that you don't live your
life, and I kind of agree. I think you
spend most your life being worried about
a lot of things. I think you wake up in
the morning being worried about being
old. You wake up in the morning being
worried about what you put in your body.
You puree food in a you puree your food
and eat it like a baby. And people don't
want to do that. You know what I do want
to do, though? Sometimes eat a freaking
chicken sandwich from the chick from the
drive-thru. I just thinking about your
food all the time is negative. Do you
think it's negative? So, first I hope it
feels good to vent.
>> I don't think I'm venting. I think that
I'm like being direct.
>> I I think uh I mean you are being
direct. Uh I understand your anger. Uh I
>> I don't think I'm being angry. I think
that that's like you saying that because
I'm a direct and loud woman. I think
that's actually a really rude generalization.
generalization.
>> Okay. Um what I'm saying is I have been
in those circumstances and I don't buy
the hypothesis that eating poison makes
you happy. I don't think it makes the
body happy. I think if you were to
actually measure the body, I think the
body would complain that it doesn't like
getting those kinds of foods in its
>> Hi, Brian.
>> Hi. How are you?
>> Good. How are you? I'm Titania.
>> Hi Tiana.
>> So, I wanted to know um what your like
solution is because I feel like it's
been being beat around the bush. Like in
an ideal world, we all have access to
healthy maybe even organic food, but
just the basic food that it's nutritious
to our bodies and isn't, you know, all
over that's like poisoning us. But like
what is the solution for the everyday
people working, you know, just regular
jobs cuz we don't have livable wages
really anywhere in the United States. So
I would just like to act an actual
answer to like what would the solution
be? Is it to not eat or is it too like
poison ourselves? that's the term you've
used and eating food that's accessible
to us based on our budget and means like
what would your solution be to that?
>> I love this question. Uh so what I think
we should do is we should stop asking
companies to make poison that we
consume. So let's just stop eating the
food. If we stop eating it they will
want to make money by making food that's
better. So I'm saying that I understand
the limitations we have as you know
individually in our lives but we the way
we fix it is not by eating more poison.
The way we fix it is we stop it and we
say companies I'm not going to buy your
poison. You need to make something
that's better for me. So it's really a
societal shift because you can't just I
can't you can't just say hey person with
two jobs and no money like that's a very
challenging situation. We have to change
societal norms. So it really is from the
ground up we have to say we don't want
to eat poison. We don't want to feed our
kids poison. We don't want to feed our
adult our parents poison. Like it sucks
to be diseased and to feel bad. Let's
stop it. So I'm really I'm trying to
argue that we want to change this on a
societal level.
>> Okay. So in the interim what do we do?
Because I hear I agree with you but the
reality is we are not going to all
boycott McDonald's like today.
>> What if we did?
>> Okay. But we're not.
>> Yeah. But but I'm saying what it's a
it's a domino effect like you and your
friends and and your you have children
or your parents
>> but they're not because what are we
going to eat instead like Burger King?
>> No. So I think again this is not an easy
solution and life is not easy. This is
not a situation where like all the
answers are right there in front of us. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> But I definitely know I've been through
this myself, right? Like I've been the
same circumstance.
>> You can try your very best to eat as
well as you can, right? And sometimes
it's not perfect and sometimes you have
to make compromises. But I'm saying that
if we want these things to change, we
all need to take a stand together. We
need to stop asking for this to be made.
>> I feel like that's a big like solution
and I'm asking for like an interim
solution to like something people maybe
can take away that are watching this and
are you saying you don't have that solution?
solution?
>> No, I'm saying that. Yeah. So I would
say try to create a weekly schedule. So
if you can budget for example an hour of
your entire week, it could be on a
Saturday or Sunday and try to do meal
prep for that week. Try to buy some
basic foods and you can even do
something lower cost like something like
potatoes or something that is actually
in a budget you can afford and try to be
on some kind of of reasonable diet and
not consume fast food. But I think that
it actually can be done. You can take
reasonable steps to try to not
participate in fast food. And is this
all during our eight hours of sleep we
have to make time for too?
>> It could it could be seven as well
>> while we're working, you know, to make
money for like rent and not being paid
livable wages. I'm just trying to get
there with you and I'm not there.
>> I'm with you. So you I think you can
have some basic things. For example, if
you just if we could say it's not a good
idea to scroll before bed. It's not a
good idea to eat right before bed. What
about people that are influencers that
like, you know, they might have like
work in another time zone and they have
to scroll right before bed because they
got to get their trying to get their
eight hours you're talking about or
maybe just four or five for the normal
person, at least people I know. Like,
are you saying that they should just not
that like impacts their work?
>> Yeah. I'm saying there are things within
everyone's control to make small steps
on a daily basis to to say no to the
things that make them a lesser person.
You don't no one's going to force a
lesser person.
>> No one's going to eat
>> Can you elaborate on that?
>> Yeah. So, when you consume a diet of
sugar, uh even you eat a fast food diet,
you're less able cognitively. You have
lower reaction times. You have lower
willpower. It makes you a person that's
not as robust in the world. So it's
actually a form of self harm and I don't
want that to happen.
>> Self harm. Okay.
>> Yep. And so there are definitely people
have the ability to make these decisions
in their life like small things. This is
I'm not trying I'm not blaming the
person. I'm blaming systems. I'm saying
the systems we have in society suck.
They are killing people and
>> and they're man-made.
>> And the way we have to change that is we
have to stop participating in those
systems. This is not me blaming people. Mhm.
Mhm.
>> I I'm not pointing the finger. I'm
saying that we are stuck in a system,
but we actually are endorsing the system
by participating in it.
>> Okay. So, thank you, Brian.
>> Brian.
>> Hey, how are you?
>> Good. How are you?
>> Good to see you.
>> So, uh I'm a professional fitness
trainer and nutritionist. Uh originally
I'm from Ukraine. So in my country food
is much better than in US
>> but the lifespan is less than know 8
years less.
>> So don't you think that uh healthc care
is the
more important than uh the fast food and
the any other thing that connecting with
that? Yeah, I mean I think we we all
value healthcare when something bad
happens to us and we need help. I think
we all value it in that regard. Uh when
we're trying to solve something like disease,
disease,
some of that can be prevented by having
good healthy choices, healthy life
choices. And so in the US for example,
our system is primarily sick care,
right? You go there and you report your
symptoms, you have some kind of
diagnosis and you're treated with drugs
or something else.
Rarely do doctors talk about sleep or
exercise or diet, right? It's typically
a drug-based solution. And so our in the
US, our system is really not set up to
encourage active healthy lifestyles. I
think that's where it falls down is it's
good to help you not die right now, but
it's really bad to help you live for a
long time. So uh I do believe you
watched this movie live to 100 secrets
of the blue zone and one important thing
that connected all these people from a
different part of the world it's uh
social connection. So don't you think
it's eating the burger with the friends
at 2 a.m.
>> is way better than sitting in the couch
alone and eating the salad.
>> Yeah. At what time is the salad? [laughter]
[laughter]
It doesn't matter. Yeah. Kind of healthy salad.
salad. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Social connection is it's
like a one of the superpowers of a
wonderful life. I agree with that. Yeah.
And so this is this goes back to this
idea that um I don't think there's any
law of physics that says you can only
connect with your friends at 2 am when
you're both intoxicated. You know, like
you can definitely connect in the
morning, you can connect in the
evenings. And so again, these are really
products of our cultural norms today.
They don't have to be true. Like we can
change our schedule. For example, we do
morning dance parties with friends.
They're just as fun as 10 p.m. dance
parties. So you can actually change
norms and think about these differently.
It's just that we I think we feel stuck
in the way things are with expectations
from our friends and then we if some
like when I don't participate in those
things, right, the accusation is I don't
live life. Uh so it's I think we can
live lives that are healthy and still
like have reasonable health habits.
>> So I think fast food isn't a problem.
Relationship with the food is. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So uh we have a bunch of research and
experiments when the people eat fast
food and they stay in a calorie deficit
and they decrease the body fat percentage
percentage
>> and the cholesterol level. Does it mean
it's a fast food isn't bad? >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> What do you think?
>> Yeah, I think if you look at the
ingredients of fast food, there's a lot
of evidence to suggest it really could
be very harmful. In fact, it could
potentially contribute to some of the
worst human diseases. And so, it is I
don't think it's a good idea under any
circumstance to eat fast food. And I
think it's something we should
collectively agree as a society we don't
want anymore. Yeah, >> thanks.
>> Hey, how you doing?
>> Jordan, nice to meet you, >> Jordan.
>> Jordan.
>> So, my my viewpoint on all this I've
been hearing is it sounds like a a a
western problem.
>> Um, I don't think these problems happen
in the east because in America and
western countries were built on
capitalism and the whole idea of
capitalism is to extract and pretty much
you got to put down. So for me to make
money, I got to pick on the weak. So I
don't think it's a individual problem.
And I think that's what you're making
it. It it it sounds like how the
companies say recycling, you got to put
that's not our problem. That's the
company's problem. And I think when you
make it an individual problem, it makes
it seem like you don't care about the
humans. You know what I mean? So how do
you go attack the legislators? How do
you go against the companies? How?
because that's what we have to change if
you want to see our relationship with
food change. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, one thing I had CO a couple years
ago and I lost my taste.
>> That's when I realized that as
Americans, we have a horrible
relationship with food. It's all glutton.
glutton. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Um, so that is an American thing.
>> They may not be doing that in East
Africa. Yeah.
>> You know, um, so that's where I'm coming from.
from.
>> Yeah. I love your perspective and I
completely agree with you and I want to
be very clear. I'm not pointing the
finger at you.
>> I promise.
>> Yeah. And I don't think you are, you
know, but I'm just saying with the
rhetoric, it's not you're not saying we
have to fix the companies, right?
Because everything you've been saying
is, okay, you have to change your diet.
Now, I agree, you know, fast food, it
but there's moderation, right? Cuz if I
eat fresh steak every day, that's not
good. If I eat nothing but berries every
day, that's not good. If I eat nothing
but water every day, that's not good. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> So, you have to have balance and moderation.
moderation.
>> Yeah. So, yeah. I guess what I'm what
I'm trying to highlight is like you said,
said,
>> profit is the most important part of
American society, right? It is the thing
we value above all other things. And so,
when you go to Congress and you say,
"Hey, a company shouldn't pursue
profit." They're like, "Get out of
here." Like, that's not going to happen.
You go ahead.
>> But you have money.
>> Yeah. So you can speak to them louder
than I can speak to them.
>> And I have had these conversations.
>> They just won't like it. It it is you
you So this happened in a prohibition,
right? Like there was actually there
were people so in America there was a
time where alcohol was prohibited. Correct.
Correct.
>> Right. But rarely do you ever get uh
society to act that way. And so I agree
with you and so I am working on both
sides of this.
>> So I'm saying that in this room. So what
I what I really struggle with is I think
these companies addict all of us
>> to their things. They they are predators
and we are prey. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> Scrolling, porn, fast food, junk food,
uh nicotine, these are we we are an
addicted society
>> and it's awful.
>> And what I'm saying is this is a really
big problem and it's a collective
problem. We all own this problem. So,
everybody should do what we can to try
to fight this problem. The thing that
makes me upset is I felt powerless to
change my own eating habits every single
night. I would binge eat. I couldn't
stop myself from doing that. I had
didn't I didn't have the capacity to do that.
that.
>> I didn't have anybody in my life to say,
"Hey, Brian, can I help you with this
basic thing?" Nobody. So, that's the
role I'm trying to play is I'm trying to
say you can reclaim control of your
life. You can have willpower. I didn't
have it. I was stuck. Mhm.
>> And so I'm just trying to make like this
the most with with the power I do have
in the world, I'm trying to say like how
can we try to clean up this mess because
clearly a really bad situation. People
are hurting. It sucks. Like this is not
a good situation. So So I'm very open
like better ideas on how to solve it.
I'm trying my best with the powers I can
I do have to say like how can we make
progress along this.
>> So yeah. No, I I definitely agree. But I
don't think any 20 of us have the power,
the resources, the the the finances to
actually change. But you do.
>> You know what? Every single revolution
in history has started with a small
group. Every single one. It never
underestimate what a small group of
people can can transform.
>> My next claim is sleep should be
Hi Ryan. Hi. Nice to meet you. Nice to
see you. I'm Jolie.
>> Hi Jolie.
>> You said sleep should be the number one
priority in people's lives. I get why you would say that like it's very
you would say that like it's very important, right? But then I still think
important, right? But then I still think that is based on you should be on living
that is based on you should be on living like the longest because of course sleep
like the longest because of course sleep you know it affects your cognition and
you know it affects your cognition and your ability to do things and all
your ability to do things and all everything basically. Right.
everything basically. Right. >> That's right. But I would say still it's
>> That's right. But I would say still it's still the basis of wanting to live
still the basis of wanting to live longer. And I would say to that I would
longer. And I would say to that I would think what do you think the meaning of
think what do you think the meaning of life is? And if you're kind of
life is? And if you're kind of constantly using your life on Earth in
constantly using your life on Earth in this pursuit of continuously being on
this pursuit of continuously being on Earth, it's like why? Like what's the
Earth, it's like why? Like what's the point? I would say especially because
point? I would say especially because everything on Earth is very cyclical. So
everything on Earth is very cyclical. So obviously it's kind of designed in that
obviously it's kind of designed in that way. Nothing does really truly last
way. Nothing does really truly last forever like that. And I would say it
forever like that. And I would say it would be important to try to think about
would be important to try to think about why that is and why it's kind of
why that is and why it's kind of unnatural going against the natural way
unnatural going against the natural way of life
of life >> doing that especially um not to mention
>> doing that especially um not to mention there are a lot of other things like
there are a lot of other things like hereditary things and genes that we it's
hereditary things and genes that we it's out of our control.
out of our control. >> So I would kind of say what do you think
>> So I would kind of say what do you think about that?
about that? >> Yeah I think that lack of sleep is like
>> Yeah I think that lack of sleep is like the the first domino that falls over
the the first domino that falls over >> in wrecking life. So when you don't get
>> in wrecking life. So when you don't get good sleep, your willpower declines by a
good sleep, your willpower declines by a large margin. So the next morning when
large margin. So the next morning when you wake up and you look at a croissant
you wake up and you look at a croissant and you say, "Should I or shouldn't I?"
and you say, "Should I or shouldn't I?" you're more likely to say yes to it. Or
you're more likely to say yes to it. Or if there's a cookie at lunch or whatever
if there's a cookie at lunch or whatever your vice is. And so once you do that,
your vice is. And so once you do that, of course, that then leads to more
of course, that then leads to more cravings for more things like that. And
cravings for more things like that. And if you do if you eat those things late
if you do if you eat those things late at night, uh eating very heavily before
at night, uh eating very heavily before bed uh will increase your heart rate and
bed uh will increase your heart rate and lessen your sleep quality again. And it
lessen your sleep quality again. And it creates this really vicious cycle of bad
creates this really vicious cycle of bad habits that ruins sleep and ru and bad
habits that ruins sleep and ru and bad sleep then lower lowers willpower. I was
sleep then lower lowers willpower. I was on that cycle. I was in a really bad
on that cycle. I was in a really bad state in that continuous world. And it
state in that continuous world. And it really hurt a lot. Like I gained a lot
really hurt a lot. Like I gained a lot of weight. I had no willpower. I had no
of weight. I had no willpower. I had no ability to control my abilities my h my
ability to control my abilities my h my eating habits. And so I say this because
eating habits. And so I say this because uh we all want basic self-respect. We
uh we all want basic self-respect. We want to do the things we want to do and
want to do the things we want to do and we don't want to do things we don't want
we don't want to do things we don't want to do. And when you don't get good
to do. And when you don't get good sleep, you rob yourself of that power.
sleep, you rob yourself of that power. And so what I'm what I'm arguing for is
And so what I'm what I'm arguing for is that everybody wants to feel empowered
that everybody wants to feel empowered to become the person they want to be and
to become the person they want to be and sleep is the first pillar of that.
sleep is the first pillar of that. >> I understand what you're saying and I
>> I understand what you're saying and I agree with that.
agree with that. I just feel like I mean I guess it's
I just feel like I mean I guess it's still like the whole basis of the claim
still like the whole basis of the claim of um being the number one priority
of um being the number one priority especially you know like that's
especially you know like that's idealistic thinking. A lot of people
idealistic thinking. A lot of people don't necessarily have the circumstances
don't necessarily have the circumstances to do that. So, it's kind of like I feel
to do that. So, it's kind of like I feel like those would be people that are
like those would be people that are privileged enough to do that. Um, yeah.
privileged enough to do that. Um, yeah. >> Awesome.
>> Awesome. >> Thank you.
>> Hey. >> Hey. How are you?
>> Hey. How are you? >> How you doing?
>> How you doing? >> Well, I'm a personal trainer and
>> Well, I'm a personal trainer and nutritionist, so I actually agree that
nutritionist, so I actually agree that sleep is so fundamental to having a good
sleep is so fundamental to having a good day, having good energy, building
day, having good energy, building muscle. It's very, very important. But
muscle. It's very, very important. But you're somebody who had a lot of success
you're somebody who had a lot of success early in his life because of the
early in his life because of the sleepless nights that you spent building
sleepless nights that you spent building your company, of the sleepless nights
your company, of the sleepless nights you spent working hard, grinding, and
you spent working hard, grinding, and building up. And this is kind of like
building up. And this is kind of like the foundation of America. It's the
the foundation of America. It's the foundation of like success comes from
foundation of like success comes from sacrifice. And there are sacrifices that
sacrifice. And there are sacrifices that have to be made and like sleep is one of
have to be made and like sleep is one of them. Like I wouldn't be able to make it
them. Like I wouldn't be able to make it through college if I didn't work at a
through college if I didn't work at a bar. Like I had to be up till 4 in the
bar. Like I had to be up till 4 in the morning to pay the bills, do whatever
morning to pay the bills, do whatever you have to do. Um, and sometimes that
you have to do. Um, and sometimes that sacrifice is just necessary and that's
sacrifice is just necessary and that's something that needs to be recognized
something that needs to be recognized that it can't be your number one
that it can't be your number one priority. Like you have to think farther
priority. Like you have to think farther into the future. Sometimes you sacrifice
into the future. Sometimes you sacrifice sleep. Sometimes you sacrifice dieting.
sleep. Sometimes you sacrifice dieting. But in general, it should be a priority.
But in general, it should be a priority. >> Yeah, I I really empa empathize with
>> Yeah, I I really empa empathize with that position. And you're right. I did
that position. And you're right. I did skip a lot of sleep in building my
skip a lot of sleep in building my company. And you know what I really wish
company. And you know what I really wish is that somebody would have been in my
is that somebody would have been in my life and said, "Hey, Brian, let me help
life and said, "Hey, Brian, let me help you out with a few basic pointers
you out with a few basic pointers because when I went sleep deprived for
because when I went sleep deprived for several years, I became chronically
several years, I became chronically depressed uh so bad. I really did want
depressed uh so bad. I really did want to kill myself and I was very seriously
to kill myself and I was very seriously going to consider killing myself. And I
going to consider killing myself. And I didn't because of my kids. Uh but there
didn't because of my kids. Uh but there was no one in my life that stepped in
was no one in my life that stepped in and said, "Hey, you might want to
and said, "Hey, you might want to incorporate these basic habits." Now, I
incorporate these basic habits." Now, I was working, you know, 14-hour days. I
was working, you know, 14-hour days. I had three little babies at home, right?
had three little babies at home, right? I I mean, I have like an a gigantic
I I mean, I have like an a gigantic schedule and all the stress that comes
schedule and all the stress that comes along with building the company and I
along with building the company and I had no money. I was uh, you know, had a
had no money. I was uh, you know, had a lot of debt and so I totally understand
lot of debt and so I totally understand where people are coming from like it's
where people are coming from like it's life squeezes you so you have no time to
life squeezes you so you have no time to do anything.
do anything. >> So, and I paid my way through college as
>> So, and I paid my way through college as well. I had no help in doing that.
well. I had no help in doing that. >> And so, I get it. And so, what I am
>> And so, I get it. And so, what I am trying to say is that we have built a
trying to say is that we have built a culture that glorifies sleep
culture that glorifies sleep deprivation.
deprivation. >> It's a badge of honor. If someone gets
>> It's a badge of honor. If someone gets three or four hours of sleep, you not
three or four hours of sleep, you not only does that happen, you be like, I
only does that happen, you be like, I only got three or four hours and I feel
only got three or four hours and I feel better. They want to flex.
better. They want to flex. >> And I think that's the thing that's
>> And I think that's the thing that's damaging. Then other people try to
damaging. Then other people try to replicate that, but it leads to a lot of
replicate that, but it leads to a lot of mental disorders. And so I'm arguing
mental disorders. And so I'm arguing that as a society, one of the reasons
that as a society, one of the reasons why we're sick and hurting so badly is
why we're sick and hurting so badly is because we've glorified not getting good
because we've glorified not getting good sleep. And we all know like the human
sleep. And we all know like the human body needs seven to eight hours a night
body needs seven to eight hours a night is really kind of an insane moment for
is really kind of an insane moment for us as a species. I'm trying to correct
us as a species. I'm trying to correct for that. that can we all just get our
for that. that can we all just get our head straight that a every human no
head straight that a every human no matter the circumstances deserves 78
matter the circumstances deserves 78 hours of sleep per night.
hours of sleep per night. >> Yeah, I agree that uh humans do deserve
>> Yeah, I agree that uh humans do deserve that much sleep but I feel like the
that much sleep but I feel like the problem comes from the fact that like
problem comes from the fact that like look at what you were able to achieve in
look at what you were able to achieve in that time when you were sacrificing your
that time when you were sacrificing your sleep. Like you wouldn't be here today.
sleep. Like you wouldn't be here today. You wouldn't be able to have don't die.
You wouldn't be able to have don't die. You would have never came to the
You would have never came to the realization that you needed to emphasize
realization that you needed to emphasize your health and you would have never had
your health and you would have never had like the foundation in your life to be
like the foundation in your life to be able to have this platform to say these
able to have this platform to say these things if you didn't sacrifice your
things if you didn't sacrifice your sleep early on. All the sac sacrifice is
sleep early on. All the sac sacrifice is like a fundamental part of living,
like a fundamental part of living, especially in America. And it's not
especially in America. And it's not fair. But you know what? Life's not
fair. But you know what? Life's not really fair at all. There's people who
really fair at all. There's people who need to do the jobs that go late into
need to do the jobs that go late into the night. There are people that need to
the night. There are people that need to go and do the things that you don't like
go and do the things that you don't like to do. And there are people that need to
to do. And there are people that need to like risk death on a regular. You know,
like risk death on a regular. You know, these are things that happen and it's
these are things that happen and it's not fair. But society can't function if
not fair. But society can't function if everyone's always so emphasized on
everyone's always so emphasized on comfort and if everyone's always
comfort and if everyone's always emphasizing just like your immediate
emphasizing just like your immediate health because look, you're reversing
health because look, you're reversing everything you did earlier in life and
everything you did earlier in life and you think you're going to live forever,
you think you're going to live forever, then the sleep you lost isn't that big
then the sleep you lost isn't that big of a deal.
of a deal. >> Yeah, I I agree with you and I
>> Yeah, I I agree with you and I appreciate people who work night shifts.
appreciate people who work night shifts. You know, people who are at the ER, if
You know, people who are at the ER, if there's a problem, there's someone there
there's a problem, there's someone there to receive you. I'm I'm very grateful
to receive you. I'm I'm very grateful there are people who do that. Uh I think
there are people who do that. Uh I think it's also the case that I would have
it's also the case that I would have been potentially more successful that
been potentially more successful that the reason why I was you know I I I
the reason why I was you know I I I couldn't carry on anymore because I
couldn't carry on anymore because I didn't have these basic life uh habits.
didn't have these basic life uh habits. And so I totally agree with you. You're
And so I totally agree with you. You're making great points. It is a it's
making great points. It is a it's complicated. It's not easy for
complicated. It's not easy for everybody. But as a principle, I think
everybody. But as a principle, I think what would be a win for everybody is if
what would be a win for everybody is if we just acknowledge the value of sleep
we just acknowledge the value of sleep for everybody.
for everybody. >> Thanks. Thank you.
>> Thanks. Thank you. [music]
>> How's it going, Brian? >> How you doing? Good to see you.
>> How you doing? Good to see you. >> Nice to meet you. My name is Marte. I'm
>> Nice to meet you. My name is Marte. I'm an IFBB professional bodybuilder. I'm a
an IFBB professional bodybuilder. I'm a pro in two worldclass sports. Pleased to
pro in two worldclass sports. Pleased to meet you. My question about the sleep
meet you. My question about the sleep conundrum that we have here today is we
conundrum that we have here today is we have a biological imperative, do we not?
have a biological imperative, do we not? Right. We have mothers and fathers and
Right. We have mothers and fathers and right now we have a population decline
right now we have a population decline that's happening. Pretty sure you
that's happening. Pretty sure you already know this, which this offsets
already know this, which this offsets that. If you want people to last longer
that. If you want people to last longer and live longer, we want people to
and live longer, we want people to actually proliferate and have more
actually proliferate and have more progeny, right? M
progeny, right? M >> well this presents another example
>> well this presents another example because of time we're limited on time
because of time we're limited on time and we would say that time is money well
and we would say that time is money well during the formative years when kids are
during the formative years when kids are being raised guess what's happening the
being raised guess what's happening the mother's not getting sleep she's waking
mother's not getting sleep she's waking up the father actually has to go outside
up the father actually has to go outside of the work she has paternity leave all
of the work she has paternity leave all this stuff happens so that's the problem
this stuff happens so that's the problem now you're stuck at a crux to where we
now you're stuck at a crux to where we have to figure out how to reconcile this
have to figure out how to reconcile this time issue that can never be reconciled
time issue that can never be reconciled if we want more kids and we want a
if we want more kids and we want a bigger population bloom we need more
bigger population bloom we need more women to have kids in this nation to
women to have kids in this nation to produce which means that people are
produce which means that people are going to be lacking sleep in the in the
going to be lacking sleep in the in the other interim at the end of this.
other interim at the end of this. >> Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I think we
>> Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I think we should have more babies. I think it's a
should have more babies. I think it's a good idea. And you know, I have three
good idea. And you know, I have three babies. And so what I'd argue is that
babies. And so what I'd argue is that you can have babies, you can have a
you can have babies, you can have a family life, and you can also prioritize
family life, and you can also prioritize sleep. So, for example, if I do this
sleep. So, for example, if I do this again, I would sit my kids down even at
again, I would sit my kids down even at the earliest ages and say, "We are a
the earliest ages and say, "We are a family that prioritizes sleep." So that
family that prioritizes sleep." So that means every day we have our final meal
means every day we have our final meal at this time. Everybody turns their
at this time. Everybody turns their screens off at this time. Uh we have a
screens off at this time. Uh we have a windown routine before bed where we
windown routine before bed where we maybe read a book, maybe we do a bre a
maybe read a book, maybe we do a bre a breathing exercise, but we calm
breathing exercise, but we calm ourselves down, we go to bed, nobody
ourselves down, we go to bed, nobody gets out of their bed unless it's an
gets out of their bed unless it's an absolute emergency. And then because you
absolute emergency. And then because you can't wake somebody up in the morning,
can't wake somebody up in the morning, everybody gives everybody either a one
everybody gives everybody either a one to five star review on the star chart.
to five star review on the star chart. That includes if you walk out, you find
That includes if you walk out, you find your parent watching TV and they're
your parent watching TV and they're breaking the rules, they get a one-star
breaking the rules, they get a one-star review. Now, that is a family culture of
review. Now, that is a family culture of sleep where it says we're not going to
sleep where it says we're not going to be on screens all night long. When you
be on screens all night long. When you wake up, you're not going to be on the
wake up, you're not going to be on the screen. you're not going to have a pint
screen. you're not going to have a pint of ice cream right before bed. Like
of ice cream right before bed. Like these really basic things. So, I'm just
these really basic things. So, I'm just arguing that there is a family culture
arguing that there is a family culture and there is a society culture that says
and there is a society culture that says sleep is a good idea. We feel good when
sleep is a good idea. We feel good when we sleep. Now, yes, like when you have
we sleep. Now, yes, like when you have babies and they're waking up all night,
babies and they're waking up all night, you're not going to get sleep. I had
you're not going to get sleep. I had that for years. I woke up every night,
that for years. I woke up every night, all night with kids who are crying. My
all night with kids who are crying. My first two kids were collicky. I couldn't
first two kids were collicky. I couldn't get sleep for 6 months. I hear you. I've
get sleep for 6 months. I hear you. I've been through the pain. I know it. I
been through the pain. I know it. I still love my children. I'm glad I had
still love my children. I'm glad I had my children. But you know there are
my children. But you know there are things we can do to prioritize sleep.
things we can do to prioritize sleep. That's what I'm arguing is if within our
That's what I'm arguing is if within our power to do those things.
power to do those things. >> So I think what you're doing is you're
>> So I think what you're doing is you're mitigating a process that's going to be
mitigating a process that's going to be inevitable right now. Thus not really
inevitable right now. Thus not really providing a solution. All you're doing
providing a solution. All you're doing is staving off things. Now we're talking
is staving off things. Now we're talking about quality of life. Right? So when we
about quality of life. Right? So when we have a biological imperative right now
have a biological imperative right now we also have insert the chat the high
we also have insert the chat the high inclining divorce rate that we have
inclining divorce rate that we have right now. Women are initiating at a 79%
right now. Women are initiating at a 79% rate. So that means that women are
rate. So that means that women are raising kids by themselves. Whether or
raising kids by themselves. Whether or not we could say they're running men off
not we could say they're running men off or doing anything else or the men are
or doing anything else or the men are leaving abandoning their kids, they're
leaving abandoning their kids, they're doing this by themselves, thus
doing this by themselves, thus decreasing the chances for sleep even
decreasing the chances for sleep even more, eroding this process of having
more, eroding this process of having nuclear families to even have more time
nuclear families to even have more time to sleep. And also, men are being
to sleep. And also, men are being subjected to child support, having to
subjected to child support, having to work more hours. There's almost no way
work more hours. There's almost no way that we can get around this conundrum of
that we can get around this conundrum of the time thing. So, what's going to
the time thing. So, what's going to happen? There's no way we can obliterate
happen? There's no way we can obliterate the sleep problem happening with America
the sleep problem happening with America unless we change our culture.
unless we change our culture. >> Yeah, I agree with you. And like I think
>> Yeah, I agree with you. And like I think one of the bigger problems is I think
one of the bigger problems is I think one of the reasons why relationships
one of the reasons why relationships decay is poor health hygiene. If neither
decay is poor health hygiene. If neither person's sleeping well, you're much more
person's sleeping well, you're much more prone to be angry and to fight. Like
prone to be angry and to fight. Like your your reaction time to be triggered
your your reaction time to be triggered and to have an emotional response is
and to have an emotional response is very strong is very high. So that's why
very strong is very high. So that's why poor sleep it contributes to bad
poor sleep it contributes to bad behavior which erodess relationships. So
behavior which erodess relationships. So this is kind of like the foundation of
this is kind of like the foundation of how do you keep a relationship together?
how do you keep a relationship together? How do you keep a family together? How
How do you keep a family together? How do you keep people in a good state of
do you keep people in a good state of mind? It all begins with sleep.
mind? It all begins with sleep. >> Well, that that puts you stuck in a rock
>> Well, that that puts you stuck in a rock be in a hard place because until we
be in a hard place because until we reconcile this traditional family being
reconcile this traditional family being eroded, we will always have to reconcile
eroded, we will always have to reconcile how to get sleep. So, they'll always be
how to get sleep. So, they'll always be at odds with each other unless we change
at odds with each other unless we change society first. What came first, the
society first. What came first, the church, the chicken or the egg. Right
church, the chicken or the egg. Right now, we have family culture that needs
now, we have family culture that needs to change before we dig into people's
to change before we dig into people's pocketbooks and subscribe to your $2
pocketbooks and subscribe to your $2 million a year budget to have this
million a year budget to have this happen, which is, I mean, unrealistic
happen, which is, I mean, unrealistic and unsustainable for the majority of
and unsustainable for the majority of Americans that we see.
Americans that we see. >> Yes, I'm with you. And that's why the
>> Yes, I'm with you. And that's why the things I share with people are free. So
things I share with people are free. So I tell people I learn what I can from
I tell people I learn what I can from the scientific evidence of population
the scientific evidence of population level de data. Share those experiences
level de data. Share those experiences with people that are free and try to say
with people that are free and try to say hey look we are a society that doesn't
hey look we are a society that doesn't have us priorities straight. We can
have us priorities straight. We can correct these really small things and
correct these really small things and all feel much better. Repair our
all feel much better. Repair our relationships.
relationships. >> Unfortunately time isn't free.
>> Unfortunately time isn't free. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Yep.
>> Yeah. Go ahead. Yep. >> Thanks.
>> Thanks. >> Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate
>> that was quick. >> Gotcha.
>> Gotcha. >> How you doing? I'm good. How you doing?
>> How you doing? I'm good. How you doing? >> Good to see you.
>> Good to see you. >> So, uh, the claim is that sleep should
>> So, uh, the claim is that sleep should be everyone's number one priority. Where
be everyone's number one priority. Where does that factor in foundationally
does that factor in foundationally with water?
with water? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Cuz you can live a long time with no
>> Cuz you can live a long time with no sleep, but I don't think you can live a
sleep, but I don't think you can live a week without water.
week without water. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So, wouldn't we want to prioritize
>> So, wouldn't we want to prioritize >> water?
>> water? >> Water.
>> Water. >> Yeah. I can see the point.
>> Yeah. I can see the point. >> You're right.
>> You're right. >> Totally.
>> Totally. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I got nothing. [laughter]
>> All right. So, I think saying that sleep should be everyone's top priority is
should be everyone's top priority is generally uh a thing that we can mostly
generally uh a thing that we can mostly agree on in the fact that sleep provides
agree on in the fact that sleep provides a lot of benefits. I think the main push
a lot of benefits. I think the main push back on that claim is that it's hard to
back on that claim is that it's hard to prioritize sleep when you need to
prioritize sleep when you need to prioritize survival. And this is kind of
prioritize survival. And this is kind of going off of a lot of the arguments that
going off of a lot of the arguments that other people were giving is that say you
other people were giving is that say you had somebody that had to work overtime
had somebody that had to work overtime on two jobs. They had people to take
on two jobs. They had people to take care of, they had a family to take care
care of, they had a family to take care of, and they had to buy groceries and
of, and they had to buy groceries and all of that, and they just couldn't.
all of that, and they just couldn't. They didn't have enough time to get 8
They didn't have enough time to get 8 hours and 34 minutes of sleep. What are
hours and 34 minutes of sleep. What are they supposed to do? What are they
they supposed to do? What are they supposed to prioritize?
supposed to prioritize? >> Yeah. So, I agree with you and I fully
>> Yeah. So, I agree with you and I fully acknowledge that people's life
acknowledge that people's life circumstances prevent them from having a
circumstances prevent them from having a straight eight hour time period
straight eight hour time period sometimes, right?
sometimes, right? >> And so, what I'm arguing is that the
>> And so, what I'm arguing is that the things that wreck sleep are the things
things that wreck sleep are the things that are so common in our culture, we
that are so common in our culture, we don't see. For example, like scrolling
don't see. For example, like scrolling on your phone right before bed
on your phone right before bed >> that degrade your sleep quality. Eating
>> that degrade your sleep quality. Eating food right before bed degrades your your
food right before bed degrades your your your sleep quality. Eating bad foods
your sleep quality. Eating bad foods before bed degrades your sleep quality.
before bed degrades your sleep quality. a lot of light. Uh so our habits in
a lot of light. Uh so our habits in society are things that actually wreck
society are things that actually wreck sleep. So even if you have six hours of
sleep. So even if you have six hours of of time to get sleep, which is all you
of time to get sleep, which is all you can do, it's worse because those
can do, it's worse because those preceding habits. And this pairs with
preceding habits. And this pairs with why death should you know defeating
why death should you know defeating death should be our number one priority.
death should be our number one priority. Because when you think about the world
Because when you think about the world in that way, you basically are
in that way, you basically are acknowledging that good healthy habits
acknowledging that good healthy habits are good ideas for every outcome. that
are good ideas for every outcome. that you feel better, like you you want to
you feel better, like you you want to work harder, that you have more you have
work harder, that you have more you have more willpower, that I'm arguing that
more willpower, that I'm arguing that these things are just are intuitive,
these things are just are intuitive, they're obvious, and we all want them.
they're obvious, and we all want them. But society puts so much pressure on us
But society puts so much pressure on us to do these things and and get us to be
to do these things and and get us to be addicted to these things, it's very hard
addicted to these things, it's very hard for us to have the self-control to not
for us to have the self-control to not do them. So, I'm arguing that society is
do them. So, I'm arguing that society is structured in a way to kill us. That is
structured in a way to kill us. That is a bad thing. And the people who suffer
a bad thing. And the people who suffer the most are those without resources.
the most are those without resources. And I'm arguing that that they are in a
And I'm arguing that that they are in a bad spot. This is not a good situation.
bad spot. This is not a good situation. So I'm really trying to be the big the
So I'm really trying to be the big the best advocate that this is not a good
best advocate that this is not a good situation. We should stop doing this.
situation. We should stop doing this. >> How are you advocating that though? What
>> How are you advocating that though? What solutions are you bringing to the table
solutions are you bringing to the table to help solve these societal issues? I
to help solve these societal issues? I think it's great that you're like using
think it's great that you're like using yourself as a prime example of what the
yourself as a prime example of what the healthiest human can be. But how are we
healthiest human can be. But how are we supposed to achieve that point if we
supposed to achieve that point if we don't have the same privileges that you
don't have the same privileges that you do in getting there? I think it's super
do in getting there? I think it's super great that you're able to have those
great that you're able to have those privileges and like kind of have
privileges and like kind of have everyone learn from your experiences,
everyone learn from your experiences, but how do you propose a solution to
but how do you propose a solution to where people are able to achieve that
where people are able to achieve that eight hours of sleep every night?
eight hours of sleep every night? >> Yep. It's when health becomes high
>> Yep. It's when health becomes high status. So, I learned this a couple
status. So, I learned this a couple years ago. I was teaching my son how to
years ago. I was teaching my son how to swim. I learned there were three ways to
swim. I learned there were three ways to do it. One is I could push him in the
do it. One is I could push him in the pool. Two, I could jump in the pool and
pool. Two, I could jump in the pool and say, "Jump to me." Or three, I could
say, "Jump to me." Or three, I could bring his friend over who knows how to
bring his friend over who knows how to swim. And guess which one works?
swim. And guess which one works? >> The friend who knows.
>> The friend who knows. >> The friend, right? people do what their
>> The friend, right? people do what their friends do. Now, if their friends are
friends do. Now, if their friends are out partying and drinking all night and
out partying and drinking all night and they're eating junk food because, you
they're eating junk food because, you know, at midnight, that's what you're
know, at midnight, that's what you're going to do because your friends are
going to do because your friends are doing it. What I'm trying to change is
doing it. What I'm trying to change is the culture around our die culture.
the culture around our die culture. That's what's so damaging to everybody.
That's what's so damaging to everybody. So, when your friend starts going to bed
So, when your friend starts going to bed at the appropriate time, when they say
at the appropriate time, when they say like, look, it's a bad idea to scroll on
like, look, it's a bad idea to scroll on your phone to dream scroll before bed,
your phone to dream scroll before bed, that also ruins your sleep. That's a
that also ruins your sleep. That's a really positive thing because then all
really positive thing because then all friend groups start doing it and then it
friend groups start doing it and then it becomes okay and even high status. So,
becomes okay and even high status. So, I'm trying to change the culture of the
I'm trying to change the culture of the world to say it's not cool to die.
world to say it's not cool to die. What's cool is to live and like to feel
What's cool is to live and like to feel our best,
our best, >> right? I would say a lot of the examples
>> right? I would say a lot of the examples you're bringing up, those scrolling your
you're bringing up, those scrolling your phone and like eating bad food, those
phone and like eating bad food, those are all like generally negative things.
are all like generally negative things. I think a lot of people though sometimes
I think a lot of people though sometimes are sacrificing their sleep to do fun
are sacrificing their sleep to do fun things and things that they enjoy. Where
things and things that they enjoy. Where do you draw the line in say someone is
do you draw the line in say someone is prioritizing living an enjoyable life
prioritizing living an enjoyable life over prioritizing just living as long as
over prioritizing just living as long as possible? What are if they sacrifice a
possible? What are if they sacrifice a few hours of sleep, they only get like
few hours of sleep, they only get like six, seven hours of sleep instead of
six, seven hours of sleep instead of like the full eight hours and 34 minutes
like the full eight hours and 34 minutes that you're able to get.
that you're able to get. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, the challenge with that
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, the challenge with that is that for example, if your bedtime is
is that for example, if your bedtime is at 10 p.m. and you go to bed at 1:00
at 10 p.m. and you go to bed at 1:00 a.m. and you think you can just sleep
a.m. and you think you can just sleep till 9:00 a.m. to make it up, you can't.
till 9:00 a.m. to make it up, you can't. So, every night you miss your bedtime,
So, every night you miss your bedtime, the trash collector who comes to your
the trash collector who comes to your body and picks up all the trash, they
body and picks up all the trash, they don't come. So, your body accumulates
don't come. So, your body accumulates trash. And so, you miss this really
trash. And so, you miss this really important part of your cleaning process
important part of your cleaning process of your body. So, it's definitely true
of your body. So, it's definitely true that humans can have fun during any time
that humans can have fun during any time of the day. It doesn't need to be from
of the day. It doesn't need to be from midnight to 2 am. You could have fun
midnight to 2 am. You could have fun between 6:00 and 8:00 p.m. It's just a
between 6:00 and 8:00 p.m. It's just a culture. We've just chosen to have these
culture. We've just chosen to have these schedules, but there's no law of physics
schedules, but there's no law of physics that says humans can only have fun
that says humans can only have fun between 11 p.m. and 2 a.m. Like we could
between 11 p.m. and 2 a.m. Like we could >> No, but like given the opportunity, if
>> No, but like given the opportunity, if they want to prioritize an enjoyable
they want to prioritize an enjoyable life over living as long as possible,
life over living as long as possible, then isn't that something that would be
then isn't that something that would be worthwhile in sacrificing a few hours of
worthwhile in sacrificing a few hours of sleep? Say it's just one night.
sleep? Say it's just one night. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Thank you so much again.
>> My name is Dr. Sabat Rabian. I'm a behavior analyst and a psychologist. Um
behavior analyst and a psychologist. Um I watch your documentary. U you're
I watch your documentary. U you're pretty impressive person. Uh some of
pretty impressive person. Uh some of your statements are pretty significant
your statements are pretty significant from a psychological perspective, from a
from a psychological perspective, from a behavior analyst perspective. Um the one
behavior analyst perspective. Um the one about the sleep. Um I used to love
about the sleep. Um I used to love sleeping before I have children. I would
sleeping before I have children. I would have slept about 9 to 10 hours per day
have slept about 9 to 10 hours per day and it really helped me. But after my
and it really helped me. But after my both boys were born and they were
both boys were born and they were diagnosed with profound autism, um I am
diagnosed with profound autism, um I am no longer able to sleep. For example, I
no longer able to sleep. For example, I flew from Bay Area this morning to Meu
flew from Bay Area this morning to Meu and I got couple of hours of sleep last
and I got couple of hours of sleep last night because my 17-year-old son with uh
night because my 17-year-old son with uh profound autism didn't sleep at all last
profound autism didn't sleep at all last night. Um so some of these claims they
night. Um so some of these claims they do not apply to the public to general.
do not apply to the public to general. Um me being one of them as a mother of a
Um me being one of them as a mother of a child with special needs and we do know
child with special needs and we do know that 50 to 80% of children with autism
that 50 to 80% of children with autism or other mental disabilities they don't
or other mental disabilities they don't sleep well at all and they have a lot of
sleep well at all and they have a lot of sleeping issues. Uh so if I want to
sleeping issues. Uh so if I want to advocate for that population a lot of
advocate for that population a lot of these parents are significantly sleepd
these parents are significantly sleepd deprived. uh so as some of the other
deprived. uh so as some of the other people prior to me stated about the fact
people prior to me stated about the fact that 50 70% of American population live
that 50 70% of American population live p pay paycheck to paycheck um these
p pay paycheck to paycheck um these people do not have the luxury they would
people do not have the luxury they would love to sleep in but they do not have
love to sleep in but they do not have the luxury to sleep in and um they have
the luxury to sleep in and um they have to work double shifts u triple shifts
to work double shifts u triple shifts night shifts doctors nurses they don't
night shifts doctors nurses they don't have that luxury looking at these claims
have that luxury looking at these claims although they are really significant and
although they are really significant and impressive they don't apply to a lot of
impressive they don't apply to a lot of people so Um I would say that these
people so Um I would say that these statements um if if you do want to help
statements um if if you do want to help the humanity which you do multiple times
the humanity which you do multiple times throughout this uh session you said
throughout this uh session you said advocacy I would like to advocate if you
advocacy I would like to advocate if you really want to advocate for humanity you
really want to advocate for humanity you should come up with ideas that majority
should come up with ideas that majority of the people can benefit from they
of the people can benefit from they should not be only applying to the rich
should not be only applying to the rich and advantage and wealthy I have also an
and advantage and wealthy I have also an autism practice in the Bay Area that I
autism practice in the Bay Area that I help autism community and 50% of my
help autism community and 50% of my patients they are medical patients
patients they are medical patients purposely we distributed that between
purposely we distributed that between them and um people who can use their u
them and um people who can use their u they're rich and wealthy and can pay for
they're rich and wealthy and can pay for it. 50% are disadvantaged and poor but
it. 50% are disadvantaged and poor but they they take take advantage of the
they they take take advantage of the service. So a lot of these statements in
service. So a lot of these statements in general it it becomes a real advocacy if
general it it becomes a real advocacy if majority of the people can benefit from
majority of the people can benefit from not just the rich and wealthy and
not just the rich and wealthy and healthy and successful but also poor and
healthy and successful but also poor and disadvantaged. So what do you say about
disadvantaged. So what do you say about that?
that? >> Yeah, I mean first um I'm sorry to hear
>> Yeah, I mean first um I'm sorry to hear about that and second I respect you for
about that and second I respect you for what you're doing. Thank you. But no
what you're doing. Thank you. But no being, you know, having the sons with
being, you know, having the sons with autism, it doesn't make me feel sorry.
autism, it doesn't make me feel sorry. Actually, I really have accepted them
Actually, I really have accepted them the way they are and I love them and I
the way they are and I love them and I appreciate them. So,
appreciate them. So, >> yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't empathy for
>> yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't empathy for that. It's just that that um you're not
that. It's just that that um you're not getting sleep is painful.
getting sleep is painful. >> It really makes everything else in life
>> It really makes everything else in life so much harder. So, I guess I'm I'm
so much harder. So, I guess I'm I'm trying to acknowledge that I I hear you
trying to acknowledge that I I hear you and I've been through those periods in
and I've been through those periods in my life. I don't have a good answer for
my life. I don't have a good answer for you. I'm just I I agree with you. I see
you. I'm just I I agree with you. I see you. I understand you. And I know
you. I understand you. And I know there's a lot of circumstances in our
there's a lot of circumstances in our society that are just like that. And
society that are just like that. And sometimes it feels powerless. And so I
sometimes it feels powerless. And so I don't know what to say about it other
don't know what to say about it other than like I'm deeply empathetic. I've
than like I'm deeply empathetic. I've been there. I know what it feels like.
been there. I know what it feels like. And uh it's hard.
And uh it's hard. >> And again going back to what I said,
>> And again going back to what I said, autism is impacting one in 31 kids. So
autism is impacting one in 31 kids. So the ad real advocacy comes in when
the ad real advocacy comes in when majority of the people when our
majority of the people when our community when our population is getting
community when our population is getting impacted by such a disorder or other
impacted by such a disorder or other things in this world, we should be
things in this world, we should be advocating for all of them not for
advocating for all of them not for certain population.
certain population. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Thank you.
What was your name again? >> Brighton.
>> Brighton. >> Brighton. Brighton, I I choose you
>> Brighton. Brighton, I I choose you because I feel like you entered the
because I feel like you entered the debate with some good arguments that I
debate with some good arguments that I think uh deserve more extensive
think uh deserve more extensive discussion.
discussion. >> My claim is that life's finitude breeds
>> My claim is that life's finitude breeds its meaning.
its meaning. >> Yeah. If you I think if you go back the
>> Yeah. If you I think if you go back the past couple thousand years and you ask a
past couple thousand years and you ask a person in any given moment, what is the
person in any given moment, what is the purpose of life or what makes you
purpose of life or what makes you happiest? You would probably get a
happiest? You would probably get a slightly different answer every year for
slightly different answer every year for the past few thousand years. Humans
the past few thousand years. Humans change what they value. They change what
change what they value. They change what they aspire to become. Moral and ethical
they aspire to become. Moral and ethical norms change. So it it's not a static
norms change. So it it's not a static thing. And right now dying is
thing. And right now dying is inevitable. And when that death is
inevitable. And when that death is inevitable, people come up with reasons
inevitable, people come up with reasons why that's a good thing. It's a it's a
why that's a good thing. It's a it's a it's a vision of coping with this ugly
it's a vision of coping with this ugly reality. And if you fast forward 10, 15,
reality. And if you fast forward 10, 15, 20 years when we're maybe extending our
20 years when we're maybe extending our lifespans to 100, 150, 200 years, maybe
lifespans to 100, 150, 200 years, maybe even more, you're going to see humans
even more, you're going to see humans start transforming their opinions. For
start transforming their opinions. For examp, okay, let me give you another
examp, okay, let me give you another example. I was 50 lbs overweight and I
example. I was 50 lbs overweight and I couldn't really do anything about it. I
couldn't really do anything about it. I tried to diet. I tried to I tried
tried to diet. I tried to I tried everything I could. I couldn't really
everything I could. I couldn't really control it. I didn't have access to a
control it. I didn't have access to a GLP-1. So, my opinion would be very
GLP-1. So, my opinion would be very different if I had access to a shot that
different if I had access to a shot that just changed my ability to not be
just changed my ability to not be overweight.
overweight. >> Right?
>> Right? >> If someone just has the ability to be
>> If someone just has the ability to be healthy and not degrade over time,
healthy and not degrade over time, they're going to naturally change their
they're going to naturally change their opinion of that given thing because it's
opinion of that given thing because it's something that's now possible. So, I
something that's now possible. So, I think humans will adapt their opinions
think humans will adapt their opinions as the technology moves forward and
as the technology moves forward and enables us to live longer, healthier
enables us to live longer, healthier lives. Yeah, I would argue that
lives. Yeah, I would argue that something that is shorterdived and
something that is shorterdived and things that last a less amount of time,
things that last a less amount of time, people tend to value those things more
people tend to value those things more because there is an expiration date on
because there is an expiration date on it. And I think that's why a lot of
it. And I think that's why a lot of people come up with these coping
people come up with these coping mechanisms, if they are coping
mechanisms, if they are coping mechanisms. I'm not saying they are, but
mechanisms. I'm not saying they are, but because they value those moments and
because they value those moments and maybe it is based off of a fear of the
maybe it is based off of a fear of the unknown, but they're doing that because
unknown, but they're doing that because they value the moments. And the reason
they value the moments. And the reason why you've said before uh that you just
why you've said before uh that you just want to exist tomorrow and that's all
want to exist tomorrow and that's all you know is that you want to exist
you know is that you want to exist tomorrow. And I think the reason why we
tomorrow. And I think the reason why we have that yearn and why you're correct
have that yearn and why you're correct in saying that we have that yearn is
in saying that we have that yearn is because tomorrow isn't guaranteed. I
because tomorrow isn't guaranteed. I think that's the reason because death
think that's the reason because death exists. That's why we appreciate every
exists. That's why we appreciate every day a little bit more.
day a little bit more. >> Yeah. I mean, yes, that's I agree with
>> Yeah. I mean, yes, that's I agree with your point. We also value long-term
your point. We also value long-term things. you know, you you choose to have
things. you know, you you choose to have a baby now so your baby can grow up and
a baby now so your baby can grow up and go through life, right? Go to school and
go through life, right? Go to school and get married and have their own children.
get married and have their own children. So, we do choose both short-term and
So, we do choose both short-term and long-term goals. They they they all
long-term goals. They they they all motivate us,
motivate us, >> right? I I would say though that those
>> right? I I would say though that those goals are meaningful because there is an
goals are meaningful because there is an expiration date and because we we have
expiration date and because we we have to do it. There's kind of a rush to
to do it. There's kind of a rush to achieve things because we know that we
achieve things because we know that we don't have a lot of time,
don't have a lot of time, >> right? So, I want to achieve my career
>> right? So, I want to achieve my career goals. I want to uh start a family and
goals. I want to uh start a family and everything and the only reason I have
everything and the only reason I have any motivation to do that is because I
any motivation to do that is because I know that I have a limited amount of
know that I have a limited amount of time and the only reason why we have
time and the only reason why we have that is because we have a guaranteed
that is because we have a guaranteed expiration date.
expiration date. >> Yeah. This reminds me if you were to
>> Yeah. This reminds me if you were to travel back in time and you're with
travel back in time and you're with Homoctus a million years ago, they have
Homoctus a million years ago, they have an axe in their hand. You have some
an axe in their hand. You have some rudimentary form of communication. You
rudimentary form of communication. You say, "Homoctus, tell me about the future
say, "Homoctus, tell me about the future of existence. What will our ancestors be
of existence. What will our ancestors be like?" They would say, "Well, you're
like?" They would say, "Well, you're going to forge over there and you're
going to forge over there and you're going to travel over there. They'll tell
going to travel over there. They'll tell you their mental models of the world.
you their mental models of the world. What they're not going to tell you is
What they're not going to tell you is that one day you're going to just put a
that one day you're going to just put a little white thing in your mouth and
little white thing in your mouth and your infection goes away. You're going
your infection goes away. You're going to discover a microscopic world of
to discover a microscopic world of bacteria. This leads to infection and
bacteria. This leads to infection and death. Uh they're not going to tell you
death. Uh they're not going to tell you that you're going to hold this magic box
that you're going to hold this magic box in your hand and talk to anyone in the
in your hand and talk to anyone in the world in real time through the speed of
world in real time through the speed of light. That's not part of their mental
light. That's not part of their mental models. And what I'm saying right now is
models. And what I'm saying right now is is we live in a moment where our world
is we live in a moment where our world may experience a million years
may experience a million years equivalent of evolutionary advance in a
equivalent of evolutionary advance in a very short period of time. That our
very short period of time. That our perspectives of reality may dramatically
perspectives of reality may dramatically change. And so I'm saying that
change. And so I'm saying that everything we understand right now may
everything we understand right now may be old-fashioned even 3 years or 5 years
be old-fashioned even 3 years or 5 years or seven years from now. And that the
or seven years from now. And that the best thing we can do is to say, hey,
best thing we can do is to say, hey, like the way we've built society around
like the way we've built society around death, it totally makes sense. When when
death, it totally makes sense. When when death is inevitable, makes sense. When
death is inevitable, makes sense. When profit is your primary objective, makes
profit is your primary objective, makes sense. But when these circumstances
sense. But when these circumstances arrive where you're giving birth to
arrive where you're giving birth to super intelligence, everything kind of
super intelligence, everything kind of changes a bit. We say, what is life
changes a bit. We say, what is life again? Like what does it mean to live?
again? Like what does it mean to live? What is the purpose of life? How do we
What is the purpose of life? How do we feel about ourselves? How do we treat
feel about ourselves? How do we treat our fellow humans? Is it ethical for me
our fellow humans? Is it ethical for me to build a company that sells something
to build a company that sells something to you to make you die? Is it ethical
to you to make you die? Is it ethical for me to make you die? Is it ethical
for me to make you die? Is it ethical for me to have a structure in society to
for me to have a structure in society to say I should profit when you die? Is
say I should profit when you die? Is that ethical? And I said I don't No,
that ethical? And I said I don't No, it's not. It is not ethical for someone
it's not. It is not ethical for someone in society to cause someone else to die.
in society to cause someone else to die. That's what I'm saying is and this is
That's what I'm saying is and this is the the trappings of our society is that
the the trappings of our society is that we are addicted and we can't see this.
we are addicted and we can't see this. I've been there. So this is the argument
I've been there. So this is the argument I'm making is that we are at a different
I'm making is that we are at a different point of being human. I don't disagree
point of being human. I don't disagree with you. I think although the claim
with you. I think although the claim that we may be at we may be the first
that we may be at we may be the first generation to live forever, we may be
generation to live forever, we may be the first generation not to die because
the first generation not to die because of your faith in artificial intelligence
of your faith in artificial intelligence advancement is similar to religion
advancement is similar to religion because people have a faith that there
because people have a faith that there will be an afterlife that there will be
will be an afterlife that there will be a good that there will be something
a good that there will be something after this life. So, isn't it the same
after this life. So, isn't it the same thing to have this faith based off of
thing to have this faith based off of really no empirical data that artificial
really no empirical data that artificial intelligence where will improve to get
intelligence where will improve to get rid of death? And why specifically does
rid of death? And why specifically does it have to improve to conquer that goal?
it have to improve to conquer that goal? Why can't it be any other goal? Is it
Why can't it be any other goal? Is it are you saying that it's that goal?
are you saying that it's that goal? Because that's what you want or because
Because that's what you want or because there's actual evidence that we are
there's actual evidence that we are going to achieve ending death.
going to achieve ending death. >> Yeah. I mean, to hope is to be human,
>> Yeah. I mean, to hope is to be human, right? Like that's our fuel. We we all
right? Like that's our fuel. We we all feel hope that we can have tomorrow and
feel hope that we can have tomorrow and that we have something to to gain
that we have something to to gain tomorrow. And the reason why it's don't
tomorrow. And the reason why it's don't die is because anything even in the
die is because anything even in the positive where I say live well or be
positive where I say live well or be well or live long, your version of that
well or live long, your version of that may be different than my version. And
may be different than my version. And what happens when humans disagree on
what happens when humans disagree on certain things is they kill each other.
certain things is they kill each other. >> That's been the case all along is that
>> That's been the case all along is that humans kill each other over different
humans kill each other over different ideas. Don't die is the single thing
ideas. Don't die is the single thing everybody can agree to. rich and poor,
everybody can agree to. rich and poor, whatever nation, it is the single thing
whatever nation, it is the single thing that humans want. Nobody wants to die
that humans want. Nobody wants to die right now. And that's what I'm trying to
right now. And that's what I'm trying to say. This is not about immortality. It's
say. This is not about immortality. It's not about 50 years in the future. It's
not about 50 years in the future. It's not about the rich getting mortality.
not about the rich getting mortality. This is about every human on the planet
This is about every human on the planet saying we value being alive right now.
saying we value being alive right now. It acknowledges human dignity and human
It acknowledges human dignity and human existence at the most humble layer
existence at the most humble layer possible. And it's the most friendly
possible. And it's the most friendly ideology where it says you can be
ideology where it says you can be Christian and don't die. You can be
Christian and don't die. You can be Muslim, don't die. You can be capitalist
Muslim, don't die. You can be capitalist don't die. Socialist, don't die. Chinese
don't die. Socialist, don't die. Chinese and don't die. You can be anything you
and don't die. You can be anything you want and don't die. It says we as a
want and don't die. It says we as a species lock in and say this is our
species lock in and say this is our stand.
stand. >> We are not going to accept this.
>> We are not going to accept this. >> But why is death such a negative thing
>> But why is death such a negative thing that we shouldn't ever get to that
that we shouldn't ever get to that point? Because you don't know and I
point? Because you don't know and I don't know what happens after death even
don't know what happens after death even though some people believe that they
though some people believe that they know.
know. >> Aren't we then because we are afraid of
>> Aren't we then because we are afraid of it? Because I'm afraid. I assume you're
it? Because I'm afraid. I assume you're a little bit afraid to die. But we don't
a little bit afraid to die. But we don't know what it is. We don't know if it's a
know what it is. We don't know if it's a negative or a positive. So by avoiding
negative or a positive. So by avoiding it, aren't we depriving oursel of that
it, aren't we depriving oursel of that experience of death?
experience of death? >> Yeah. So I'm not afraid of death. And
>> Yeah. So I'm not afraid of death. And you know, if somebody wants to die,
you know, if somebody wants to die, that's their prerogative and and totally
that's their prerogative and and totally cool. The problem is when the concept of
cool. The problem is when the concept of death is part of society, people build
death is part of society, people build things that cause other people to die.
things that cause other people to die. That's the problem. And so, do we want
That's the problem. And so, do we want to introduce super intelligence to our
to introduce super intelligence to our world and say we are a species that
world and say we are a species that thinks it's cool to do things that cause
thinks it's cool to do things that cause other intelligent species to die? I
other intelligent species to die? I don't think that's the move. I don't
don't think that's the move. I don't think we want that part of our society.
think we want that part of our society. I don't think we want that to happen.
I don't think we want that to happen. >> I agree. And I would say although uh
>> I agree. And I would say although uh with great power obviously comes great
with great power obviously comes great responsibility and you are a big
responsibility and you are a big influencer and you have a lot of
influencer and you have a lot of influence on people's decisions. So
influence on people's decisions. So saying things like that like we
saying things like that like we shouldn't motivate people to eat
shouldn't motivate people to eat unhealthy, like we shouldn't generally
unhealthy, like we shouldn't generally eat fast food. I I can agree with that.
eat fast food. I I can agree with that. I think specifically there are problems
I think specifically there are problems with that claim. I would push back on
with that claim. I would push back on that a little bit because things like
that a little bit because things like food deserts exists where people don't
food deserts exists where people don't have access to healthy food. People
have access to healthy food. People don't have transportation to healthy
don't have transportation to healthy food. And while I think it it is true
food. And while I think it it is true people should eat healthy and they
people should eat healthy and they probably will feel better if they eat
probably will feel better if they eat healthy. And you've acknowledged before
healthy. And you've acknowledged before that not a lot not everyone can do that.
that not a lot not everyone can do that. Yes. But I I think a problem can occur
Yes. But I I think a problem can occur when because it's a nuance topic and
when because it's a nuance topic and you're you're not talking about all the
you're you're not talking about all the nuances of it. It can scare people off
nuances of it. It can scare people off when they say when you say like people
when they say when you say like people can't eat fast food and then they're
can't eat fast food and then they're like but fast food is all I have. That
like but fast food is all I have. That seems way too hard for me to accomplish
seems way too hard for me to accomplish so I'm just not going to try it all. Um,
so I'm just not going to try it all. Um, and I I I assume you've you've mentioned
and I I I assume you've you've mentioned that before, but I feel like it could be
that before, but I feel like it could be emphasized that people should just do as
emphasized that people should just do as much as they can. Yeah. Rather than
much as they can. Yeah. Rather than saying you should never eat fast food,
saying you should never eat fast food, you should try to eat healthy food as
you should try to eat healthy food as much as possible.
much as possible. >> It's a great point and you're right.
>> It's a great point and you're right. >> Well, do you want to arm wrestle?
>> Well, do you want to arm wrestle? [laughter]
[laughter] >> Uh, what do you think overall this
>> Uh, what do you think overall this conversation today?
conversation today? >> Uh, I think it was great. I think what I
>> Uh, I think it was great. I think what I respect about you is that you're a
respect about you is that you're a person who can have a debate and when
person who can have a debate and when you don't know something, you say, "I
you don't know something, you say, "I don't know." And when you feel like the
don't know." And when you feel like the other person is right, you say, "I think
other person is right, you say, "I think you're right." And I think that's very
you're right." And I think that's very valuable. You're not trying to prove the
valuable. You're not trying to prove the other person wrong, and you're not just
other person wrong, and you're not just trying to win the argument, but you're
trying to win the argument, but you're trying uh to get everyone to learn. And
trying uh to get everyone to learn. And so I respect that, and I appreciate
so I respect that, and I appreciate that.
that. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Awesome. What did you think
>> Thank you. Awesome. What did you think about it?
about it? >> I really had a lot of trepidation coming
>> I really had a lot of trepidation coming here today because I actually I prepared
here today because I actually I prepared for this uh for like six weeks. I did I
for this uh for like six weeks. I did I every morning I would actually I would
every morning I would actually I would go over my questions and I would try to
go over my questions and I would try to imagine like where are you at? What is
imagine like where are you at? What is happening in your life? Like what are
happening in your life? Like what are the real constraints? What do you feel?
the real constraints? What do you feel? Like how painful is life?
Like how painful is life? >> And I was I was nervous that I was going
>> And I was I was nervous that I was going to come in here and that you would be
to come in here and that you would be here and I'd be here and it would take
here and I'd be here and it would take us a time to find a dance
us a time to find a dance >> to say actually like we hear the same
>> to say actually like we hear the same music.
music. >> We just need to figure out like how to
>> We just need to figure out like how to vibe together.
vibe together. >> Yeah. And I feel like it took me about
>> Yeah. And I feel like it took me about 59 minutes like to find the vibe of like
59 minutes like to find the vibe of like what is going on because people have
what is going on because people have these preconceived notions. I'm a rich
these preconceived notions. I'm a rich person out of touch that has unrealistic
person out of touch that has unrealistic ideas about the world that doesn't
ideas about the world that doesn't actually understand like like what
actually understand like like what people are really going through. I
people are really going through. I deeply understand it. And so I um I
deeply understand it. And so I um I learned a lot on how to try to
learned a lot on how to try to communicate these things. I hope that I
communicate these things. I hope that I was uh I show that I'm empathetic that I
was uh I show that I'm empathetic that I really do understand and I genuinely am
really do understand and I genuinely am trying to be in your corner to be your
trying to be in your corner to be your best supporter. Like that is it's not my
best supporter. Like that is it's not my goal to criticize. It's not my goal to
goal to criticize. It's not my goal to shame you. It's to say like I
shame you. It's to say like I understand. I'm with you. I've got your
understand. I'm with you. I've got your back. Like I want to be your strongest
back. Like I want to be your strongest proponent. And so I learned that the way
proponent. And so I learned that the way I communicate that I need to come
I communicate that I need to come through different ways to to package
through different ways to to package that because I think it takes a minute
that because I think it takes a minute for us to reconcile like where we're
for us to reconcile like where we're each at and then find connection. So I
each at and then find connection. So I found it to be really helpful. I'm I'm
found it to be really helpful. I'm I'm grateful to all of you for all of your
grateful to all of you for all of your perspectives. I really learned a lot. I
perspectives. I really learned a lot. I I feel like I grew a lot. Um and so I
I feel like I grew a lot. Um and so I appreciate your like your patience with
appreciate your like your patience with me as I stumble through how to
me as I stumble through how to communicate these new ideas.
communicate these new ideas. >> Awesome. Sounds great. Thank you so
>> Awesome. Sounds great. Thank you so much.
much. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Nice meeting you.
>> Nice meeting you. I think the debate was more interesting
I think the debate was more interesting than I expected. I wasn't sure how it
than I expected. I wasn't sure how it was going to be approached by Brian and
was going to be approached by Brian and I think he was a little more genuine
I think he was a little more genuine than I expected to him to be. I maybe
than I expected to him to be. I maybe had a little bit of a Frankenstein
had a little bit of a Frankenstein vision of who he is as a person.
vision of who he is as a person. [laughter] I think it was helpful for me
[laughter] I think it was helpful for me to realize that he wasn't kind of just
to realize that he wasn't kind of just making these blanket statements
making these blanket statements expecting everyone to do exactly [music]
expecting everyone to do exactly [music] what he does and that he does actually
what he does and that he does actually have a more nuanced understanding of
have a more nuanced understanding of people's personal problems and I
people's personal problems and I appreciate the fact that he was saying
appreciate the fact that he was saying people should just try as much as they
people should just try as much as they can to achieve the kind of same health
can to achieve the kind of same health standards. I thought the cast was
standards. I thought the cast was fantastic. I really had a good time. I
fantastic. I really had a good time. I thought their perspectives were great. I
thought their perspectives were great. I thought that they presented real life
thought that they presented real life circumstances. They were speaking from
circumstances. They were speaking from the heart. So, I really took them at
the heart. So, I really took them at face value and I think that they're
face value and I think that they're genuinely looking for a solution, you
genuinely looking for a solution, you know, like, okay, so if if they agree
know, like, okay, so if if they agree with this, like tell me what to do. And
with this, like tell me what to do. And I think that's a great point. It's a
I think that's a great point. It's a good invitation for me to actually like
good invitation for me to actually like try to develop more robust solutions.
try to develop more robust solutions. So, I thought they were spot on with
So, I thought they were spot on with their observations.
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