0:03 Hello freak I'm getting
0:05 fascinated by the way your brain works
0:07 because for you it's important that the
0:09 person want to wear the suit and I have
0:11 a feeling that that's sort that's
0:13 symbolic of how you feel about life
0:16 itself. Like the person has to want to
0:18 be doing what they're doing. They have
0:20 to want to wear that suit. It has to be
0:23 an authentic gesture. Um did you ever
0:25 read a book called Extreme Ownership
0:26 written by a couple of Navy Seals? Uh
0:29 that's Joo Willink, right? No. No. Oh,
0:30 that's uh I think it is. Is it Is it
0:32 Jaco's book? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah,
0:33 I've had Jaco on the show a bunch of
0:35 times. Important book. Well, I've had
0:37 him on once before. What am I talking
0:38 about? A bunch of times, right? I've had
0:40 him once, but it's an important book.
0:42 Yes. Right now, there's lots of books
0:43 that have picked up on this theme, but
0:46 they were very eloquent about it. If you
0:49 don't own something, you're not the
0:51 boss. You have to take full
0:52 responsibility for everything that you
0:54 do. Why be
0:57 subservient? You must be the master of
1:05 I feel you. Makes a lot of sense. You've
1:07 got to own. You can't just walk into
1:09 things with your eyes half open. You got
1:11 to walk into things with your eyes fully
1:12 open. You got to know what you're
1:14 getting into. You have to take
1:16 possession of your life. Is this a
1:17 thought process that you have to
1:19 constantly reaffirm or is this cemented
1:20 in your It's exactly that. It's exactly
1:23 that. You drift on this point, right?
1:26 And it is whatever form of meditation or
1:29 mantra that you decide to
1:33 espouse, there needs to be some period
1:36 in your day where you
1:38 remember that there's a world out there
1:40 trying to tell you who you are. And
1:42 there's a world in here that's trying to
1:44 tell you who you are. Now, where do you
1:46 want to put your ex? Because the world
1:49 outside is very noisy and very tempting
1:51 and it has all the razatas. It has all
1:53 the tinsel and all the
1:55 glitter. It's got all the
1:58 toys. But that's because you don't think
1:59 you're enough in the first
2:02 place. If you don't think you're enough
2:04 in the first place, the whole idea of
2:05 the world to sell you stuff is first of
2:07 all they have to make you feel bad about
2:09 yourself less than in some way. And I
2:11 don't resent this system by the way. It
2:14 is the system.
2:16 But what's the expression about? Don't
2:19 hate don't hate the player, hate the
2:22 game. Don't hate the game. Love the game
2:25 because you're in it, mate. So, own the
2:28 game, accept the rules, and move on into
2:31 the rules. So, the world will try and
2:33 tell you who you are, and you have to
2:35 tell yourself who you are. And there's
2:38 this ongoing battle, and somehow there
2:39 needs to be a reconciliation between the
2:41 two. But in the end, you've got to have
2:44 all the eggs in your basket. There's
2:45 also an ongoing internal battle, though,
2:47 isn't there? There's the you that you
2:49 want people to think you are, and
2:52 there's the you who you are, and trying
2:54 to figure out like, how do I how do I
2:57 figure out who I am? Like, am do do I
2:59 have a correct assumption of how other
3:01 people are perceiving me and how I
3:03 actually am objectively, or am I
3:05 bullshitting the world with this suit
3:07 and pocket square?
3:10 Yeah, I would say it's exactly the
3:11 scenario that we're talking about. There
3:14 there's essentially only two two worlds.
3:15 There's the inner world of energy and
3:17 there's the outer world of energy.
3:18 There's there's two identities. One's
3:22 real, one's false. The external world is
3:25 I'm asking you to tell me who I am.
3:26 That's what we're all playing at. And as
3:27 soon as you start to play that game, we
3:28 run into all sorts of trouble. Call it
3:30 the ego, call it whatever you want to
3:32 call it. But that's the dynamic that
3:40 give ourselves enough confidence to
3:43 reassure ourselves that we are enough.
3:45 However, I enter the game because I've
3:46 got to move on in the world. I got to
3:47 crack on in the world and I know there's
3:49 loads of temptations that can come along
3:51 the way. So, I will own the suit. I'm
3:52 going to wear the suit, but I'm going to
3:55 own the suit. Now, I don't mean by
3:58 paying for it. I mean by owning it. It's
4:01 now my suit. It's my idea to put on this
4:03 suit. I have to personalize it in some
4:05 way. I have to understand a narrative
4:07 that allows me to own that suit and
4:09 thereby I put on my suit of armor and I
4:11 come out into the world and guess what?
4:13 I'm in a good time because I'm owning
4:16 the suit. Now, this is a very rockolid
4:18 philosophy. Is this something you've
4:21 ever written down?
4:23 It's what the essence of narrative I'm a
4:26 storyteller. The essence of narrative is
4:29 only about this dynamic. There is
4:31 nothing else in a story other than this dynamic.
4:33 dynamic.
4:35 So the struggle
4:38 between other people's perceptions and
4:41 your own wants and desires and who you
4:44 truly are, your your significant real
4:47 self. That's it. That's all there is.
4:49 You tell me a story that didn't that we
4:51 engaged in that's famous that's not
4:53 about this journey. I'll give you an
4:56 example. The prodigal
5:00 son parable Christian seems religious
5:02 doesn't really make much sense. Do you
5:03 know the story? Sure, but why don't you
5:06 lay it out? So, there's a father. He has
5:08 two sons, an older son and a younger
5:11 son. And he says to them, "Who wants to
5:12 spend their inheritance?" The younger
5:14 says says, "Me, dad. I'll go and spend
5:16 it." And the younger son takes all the
5:18 dough. And he runs off and sniffs coke
5:21 off strippers tits for a number of years
5:23 until he
5:25 realizes this is getting pretty boring
5:28 and I'm in a lot of trouble. He ends up
5:31 feeding throwing food to pigs. That's
5:34 his job. And he can't even eat the food
5:36 that he gives to the pigs. At which
5:43 back?" Dad then goes to They don't meet
5:45 this somehow happens. Not through
5:48 telephones. It just happens. At which
5:50 point dad goes to the fatty calf, says,
5:52 "Kill the fatty cal." Older son says,
5:54 "Hold on, dad. What's going on? I've
5:56 stayed with you since the beginning.
6:00 I've been loyal to you and I hear the
6:01 stories of my younger brother coming
6:02 back who's been sniffing coke off
6:04 stripper's tits for the last god knows
6:06 how many years and you're prepared to
6:09 kill the fatty calf. What's the SP, Dad?
6:10 I want to know the
6:12 story. He says, "You're all right, son.
6:13 Don't worry about that. You take a
6:15 little side step a little step to the
6:16 side. You'll always be with me. You're a
6:18 good boy." At which point he goes out to
6:20 meet the prodical son, the wasteful son.
6:24 the wasteful sun returns and he says you
6:26 were lost and now you're found. That's
6:28 the end of the
6:30 story. It's quite hard to make sense of
6:32 that in a literal sense. You go, "Oh,
6:34 dad was a bit unfair and you should have
6:36 been kind to the older son cuz he never
6:38 ran off and did
6:41 anything." But the essence of the story
6:44 is that you are the
6:48 father. You are enough.
6:51 Your older son is your intellect. He
6:53 says, "Oh, don't do this. Don't do
6:55 that." He's trying to reconcile, make
6:58 sense of a prosaic and material world.
7:01 The younger son being the
7:04 wild feral entity that he is, wants to
7:05 go out in the world and find out what
7:06 it's all
7:09 about. So, in his
7:12 recklessness and sense of adventure, he
7:15 finds that he can't escape
7:18 himself. So he has to return to himself
7:21 and at which point he has to accept who
7:23 he is which point the intellect is left
7:25 out of the equation pretty much as the
7:28 older brother because he can't
7:30 understand the significance of the
7:33 journey of the wasteful brother. In the
7:37 end you have to leave yourself to
7:39 understand the value of yourself. You
7:42 have to lose stuff before you realize
7:44 that all the stuff that you're losing is
7:46 ephemeral and transitory. It's not
7:48 yours. You're enough. You're always
7:50 enough. But you've got to somehow
7:52 prostitute yourself before you realize
7:54 your own value. That is the essence of
7:57 all stories. That's deep, guy. Richie,
7:58 is that something you you think about
8:00 all the time or is this I mean, is this
8:03 like a cemented philosophy? Let So King
8:06 Arthur, the story you just made, a man
8:11 is a king has a son. The son um the
8:14 father is runs into a bit of aggro. The
8:18 son jumps into uh a little uh boat, a
8:20 little skillet, and he's not skillet.
8:21 That's what you cook your chops on,
8:23 isn't it? Yeah. Um skiff. A little
8:25 skiff. The skiff takes off down the
8:27 river. He gets found by prostitutes.
8:29 He's brought up in a brothel. He
8:31 understands the ways of the street. He
8:34 becomes a king on the street. He works
8:36 his way out the different ladders. And
8:39 then he pulls a sword from a stone at a
8:40 certain point in his life, a certain
8:42 point of evolution. And then from there,
8:43 he goes on to be the king. There's a bit
8:45 of a tossle all along the way, lots of
8:46 wrestling matches. In the end, he fights
8:48 down his demons and he becomes the king.
8:50 So what's the significance of this
8:53 narrative? That every man in himself is
8:56 aristocratic. That he is his own king.
8:58 He takes a sour into the material world,
9:00 has to climb up all the different runs
9:02 on the ladder and ultimately has to
9:04 return to himself. The significance of
9:06 the extraction from the sword from the
9:08 stone is the stone is the material
9:11 world. The material world which seems
9:13 all solid because it controls you whilst
9:15 you're projecting your sense of identity
9:17 upon it. The extraction of the stone is
9:20 taking back your own authority, your
9:23 own divinity, your own authority, your
9:24 own identity, whatever it is that you
9:26 got to call it, your own power. You're
9:27 no longer looking for a sense of self
9:29 outside of yourself. And then you have
9:32 to face the demons that you've created
9:34 in your history by facing them and
9:37 fighting them and owning them. You put
9:39 them in the face of who you are. And
9:41 that's a wrestling match. You'd have to
9:43 take away all these crutches. And that's
9:45 all that we struggle from in life is
9:47 taking away our crutches. Oh, please
9:49 tell me who I am. Oh, please give me a
9:51 bit more money so other people think I'm
9:52 clever. Oh, and then I'll have a nice
9:54 car and people think I'm clever. You got
9:56 to take away all these crutches and
9:58 stand as the man that you are and you're
10:00 liberated from your whole thing. That is
10:02 the story of King Arthur. But it's not
10:03 just the story of King Arthur. It's the
10:05 story of all narrative. Do you think
10:07 that most people that are watching the
10:08 film are going to get that though?
10:08 They're just going to get an
10:10 entertaining story. They're just going
10:12 to see a bunch of cool stuff, some drama
10:13 play out. But this is fascinating that
10:15 you're operating so many levels
10:16 underneath it. Yeah, but I'm a
10:18 storyteller. It's my business. So, if
10:19 I'm in the business of story, I might as
10:22 well understand story. And do you need
10:24 to understand all that? I'm not sure if
10:25 you do. Depends where you are on the
10:27 ladder. So, you can just go along, have
10:28 a nice bit of entertainment. Good guy,
10:30 bad guy, everything's literal. There's
10:33 nothing wrong with literalism. It is
10:36 what it is. It's the game. You can glean
10:37 what you can glean when you're ready to
10:39 glean what you're ready to glean. Are
10:42 you a Joseph Campbell fan? I am a Joseph
10:44 Campbell fan. Yeah. Yeah. That I mean
10:46 that's a reoccurring theme in his work.
10:48 This the hero's journey. Yes. The hero's
10:50 journey. this underlying sort of
10:53 narrative that just really guides all
10:55 all stories and all ancient tales and
10:56 that there's something inherently human
10:58 about them, important about these
11:01 stories and they resonate with our our
11:03 wants and needs and goals and and even
11:05 also maybe the structure that we really
11:08 truly need in our own life.
11:10 Yeah. I mean, all the stories from
11:13 whatever period, I'm sympathetic to this
11:16 particular um to Joseph Campbell's
11:17 philosophy on this, but he's not the
11:19 only one. Right. Right. The weird thing
11:22 about religion is religion has done to
11:26 the spiritual significance of narrative
11:33 He's literalized it. He didn't realize
11:35 that putting on a suit is putting on a
11:38 suit of armor. is putting on something
11:39 that's rather
11:41 spectacular. You're just doing it for
11:42 convention. You're doing it for others.
11:44 You're not doing it for you. And in our
11:48 literal mind, we look at a narrative and
11:51 we see the narrative for what we believe
11:54 it to be, the exterior aspect of the
11:57 narrative. So, we completely we see the
12:00 world upside down. We don't we're not
12:01 actually interested in the essence of
12:04 the narrative because we're so busy
12:06 pandering after the approval of others.
12:08 So everything that we see, every
12:11 narrative that we listen to, every film
12:12 that you see, you're not really
12:13 interested in
12:18 its soul, you're interested in its body
12:20 because that's what we correspond to.
12:21 It's fascinating that you're comparing
12:24 it to suits because it resonates like
12:26 when you think of a guy showing up for
12:28 work or getting ready for work and he
12:29 doesn't want to go and he's putting on
12:31 this suit and it's just dredging through
12:34 it and putting it on and or you think
12:36 about a guy who's crisply tucking in his
12:39 collars and putting on his cuff links
12:41 and tightening up his tie and he feels
12:44 empowered by the whole process of it.
12:46 It's very it's very appealing. Like if
12:48 you see it in a film too, it's very
12:49 exciting. This is a man of purpose. They
12:51 did it in mean streets. I don't know if
12:53 you remember Harvey Keitel getting
12:54 dressed to go up on a Friday, getting
12:56 dressed to go out on a Friday night and
12:57 it affected a whole generation of people
12:59 about the way they dress cuz he owned
13:03 it. Yeah. Yeah. I never really thought
13:05 about that until this conversation. It's
13:07 not because I I just I don't really I
13:09 wear suits occasionally, like very very
13:11 occasionally. But you've been robbed.
13:12 I've been robbed. You've been robbed.
13:15 There are so many aspects of life. Food
13:17 for a long time got robbed from us and
13:19 we've slowly managed to claw that back.
13:23 It's true. Um, but clothes really,
13:25 you're a 45-year-old geyser and you're
13:28 still dressing like an 18-year-old.
13:30 What cuss is all that about? Well, some
13:31 people like to be comfortable though. I
13:34 get that, by the way. And they like that
13:35 look. Comfortable. Your suit's
13:37 comfortable. It's comfortable. Yeah. You
13:39 can get poured into this. Completely
13:41 deconstructed on the inside. Made by a
13:42 chap called Brunelloo. Knows what he's
13:45 doing. So, these are all handmade. Um,
13:47 it's It won't be handmade. Really?
13:49 Tailored? Uh, no. You I bought this off
13:51 the shelf and I had it Yeah. a couple of
13:54 things tweaked, but it's as comfortable
13:57 as a pair of pajamas. Really? Yeah. So,
13:58 again, you have to broker a deal. You
13:59 can't put on things that are
14:01 uncomfortable because guess what happens
14:02 in the morning? You're looking through
14:03 your suits, you go, "Oh, I like that
14:04 one, but I'm going to wear the
14:06 comfortable one." Ah, so they all have
14:08 to be comfortable. Well, otherwise,
14:09 you're not going to play the game, are you?
14:13 [Applause] [Music]
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