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This content is a discussion among paranormal investigators about their experiences with Ouija boards, hauntings, and the nature of spirits, emphasizing the importance of skepticism, evidence, and maintaining a grounded mindset.
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We have a Ouija board sitting right in
front of us. You're welcome to take the
cover off. I wouldn't want to. [laughter]
>> This concept of it being a portal to the
other world as well as about it being dangerous.
dangerous.
>> Yeah. The world's most dangerous game.
That's what it's called. Before you
start using these things, I would advise
if say your prayers. So, we use talcum
powder on our hands before we go on the
board away. Well, because you secrete
sebum. sort of came up with that concept
and thought we'll put something in
between a barrier because a number of
people have actually ended their lives
because of what the boards told them.
Have you guys been in a situation where
identity has actually taken over?
There was one girl from 1976 I believe
she passed away and she said, "Oh man,
I'm okay."
Have you guys interacted with entities
that you guys felt were evil? One
experience which I'll never forget. The
take gallery was originally Milbank
Penitentiary and we were sitting there
all of a sudden the plan ship was moving
around and it just went s a t a n s a t
a n s a t. [cheering]
[cheering]
>> Do you want to give a step-by-step
procedure on the right way to use a
Ouija board? Stay away. Don't get
involved in it. If you're looking for
it, it will come and haunt you and it
can manifest into something greater than
what it is if you allow it to take
control of your psyche. So, always
remain grounded. Keep your feet on the
floor because that's why the earth is.
>> If you end up on the ceiling, then you got
got
Hazel, such an honor having you on the show.
show. >> Namaste.
>> Namaste.
>> Namaste. Welcome.
>> It's an honor to to be here. Thank you,
Ravi. Thank you.
>> No, thank you for coming in here. We
have a Ouija board sitting right in
front of us. All your equipment from
your paranormal investigations.
>> Yes. Um, so interested. Dean is about to
join us. Dean, we're already rolling and
you can walk in. Welcome to the Ranir
Show. Good, good to be with you. You
guys are the oldest paranormal
investigation agency in the UK.
>> Wow. I mean,
>> one of one of them. Yeah. I mean,
>> can't put a date on it, but maybe in
London, but in the UK, there wasn't too
many around.
>> Uh, you know, I can't wait to deep dive
into all the stories and experiences you
guys have had. We've spoken so much
about Ouija boards on the show. This is
an actual Ouija board sitting right in
front of us.
>> Yes, it is. You You're welcome to take
the cover off.
>> I wouldn't want to. [laughter] Oh,
Oh,
>> you don't worry. You want me to do that
for you or you just happy to leave as is?
is?
>> Uh, are you comfortable doing?
>> Okay. Sorry to make you do this, Dean.
>> Oh my god. We're going to deep dive into
the equipment at this point.
>> Wow. Okay, you got to explain how this
works in the first place. uh when we
operate with this um divination tool, I
know it's widely um sort of uh accepted
as a way of contacting spirit and so on
and so forth, but we take a little bit
more of a skeptical view on on the Ouija
board ourselves. We actually have our
own methods um to try and eliminate um
things like the idiom motor effect. Now
what that is is when the the brain tells
the muscles to uh effectively move the
planchet. Uh do you want to show the
planchet Dean? Um
>> I'll show you on the wall.
>> Yeah. So uh the planchet itself
which is where the uh participant would
actually place their fingers on the
planchet. Normally four or five of you.
I'd say four is a good number for the
for for the board. Before you start
using these things, I would I would
advise if you have your own spiritual
beliefs and so on and so forth, say your
prayers [laughter]
just in case, you know, it makes you
feel more comfortable. Main concept is
obviously that the participants would
have to put their fingers one finger on
the on the plant shed where H talks
about the idiom effect is that you have
to physically be touching the plant
shed. So you could physically cuz you
have to physically touch it. People
could influence the board. This is why
skeptics like myself on the skeptical
side think they're touching it, they
could be moving it. But there is also
the side of it where if it is a spirit
coming through, you just have to listen
to what it's coming through and as long
as it makes sense. You're looking for
tangible responses to the questions
you're asking, not just random talk.
>> But we do use the word alleged spirit.
>> Gotcha. Have you guys been in a
situation where you've been using the
Ouija board and something has actually
taken over which which you guys believe
to be an actual entity?
>> Multiple times. Yeah.
>> Yeah. We we've had phone numbers come
through that have checked out from uh we
rang them up and the people that have
come through on the on the board. There
was one girl from 1976 I believe she
passed away and we we got the phone
number and she said tell my mom uh I'm
okay and did you you rang you rang and um
um
>> that was quite an interesting phone
call. So the ghost of that little girl
gave you the mom's number,
>> mobile number
>> from now.
>> From now and we're thinking to
ourselves, it just started rather than
going to letters, it started going to
numbers. And it wasn't making too much
sense. It started until it started with
the UK digits 079 something. We're like,
this is actually spelling a number, not
an age, not a
>> I specific. It's actually spelling a
mobile number.
>> After giving you guys the number, how
did it say that? Tell my mother.
>> It said, call mom.
>> Call mom. Call mom.
>> I'm okay. I'm okay. Yeah.
>> And then I had to basically
>> you did that. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> How did the mother react?
>> Well, first of all, I had to ask if um
you know,
>> did she have a
>> did she have a daughter that passed over
and this is the message we've been told
to to give you. Um sorry to bring this
to you, but also I think it might be
>> something you might want to hear is that
we were doing a seance last night in a
particular location, a Ouija board, and
this is what's come through and we're
only following up what we were told to
do. We didn't know where the number
>> twice that happened, didn't you?
>> We didn't know where the number was
going to go
>> twice. But on two occasions, mobile
numbers have come through on the board
and we run the mobile number. They've
led directly to someone. Yeah.
>> But uh with this particular case where
that little girl's spirit came and said
that call mom. Yeah.
>> Uh what was the location that you guys
were doing it in?
>> So it was in a house. It was a home investigation.
investigation.
>> But was it her house? Was it the house
that she had?
>> It was the house of It was No, it
wasn't. But it was the house of a relative.
relative. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. The relative lived there
beforehand. Uh but we had no knowledge
of this uh when we went in. So
>> why do you think the girl spirit chose
that house?
>> Because it must have been
the person who we were dealing with. She
was quite a a nice welcoming kindred
spirit. So I think they they may have
just chosen that opportunity to come
through um because of the good nature of
the people that were in the room.
>> The relative was a good human being.
>> Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think as
well for us it's also important to say
that we don't allow people on the board.
If we go to a location such as
historians, people have got public
knowledge of the location we're going
into. We don't allow them to come onto
the board because they could taint the
board or anyone under the influence of
any drugs, alcohol, we no sorry, we just
we won't allow that because
>> So you had to be sound of mind and sober.
sober.
>> Yeah. And they say you need to be s very
well within your yourself because if
anything does come through uh you could
potentially attach that to yourself and
start thinking oh you know
>> spirits after me uh I was on the board
last night it's known as the world's
most dangerous game that's what they
call it.
>> We've had some very astounding results.
>> Yeah. Yeah we have. Can we speak about
this dangerous game situation? Because
this is what we hear back in India and
I've spoken to some people who are into
western occult or you know English magic
as they call it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um they consider a wija board a bit of a portal.
portal. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So a number of people have
actually you know ended their lives
because of what the board's told them or
people have used um the board for you
know various means you know to try and
uh you know I suppose for dark reasons
you know try and contact the devil stuff
like this
>> like yeah and and you know they've
they've put things that they've done to
other people down to the board
>> you know they're also asking personal
questions as well aren't they about
certain things that's happened in their
They're sort of willing the board to
tell them the answers.
>> Tell give them the answers.
>> The board's got the control rather than
the person.
>> Why do you think this device has this
kind of ability in the first place?
Um, well, I mean, you know, it's a
divination tool, and like all divination
tools, in fact, going back to ancient
Greece, when someone would get some
bones and blood and throw them in a
bowl, uh, and rely on the results of the
way that the bones landed, that they
would use that as a a way of a sign from
the gods or whatever, telling them that
this is what they must do. They must go
into battle, they have to don't go into
battle, and so on and so forth. It's the
same thing with that with like you know
I think humans need answers to many
things and and I think cuz it's a very
visual thing. It's very tangible. So if
you've got a
>> an a a toz something you recognize it's
very easy to read rather than just open
answering out in the atmosphere and not
getting any responses. If you've got a
board with you know numbers on it and
things you recognize it's very easy to
then make that more real. Yeah. And I
think where the horror side comes to it
is where people have used the board.
Then subsequently after that things have
happened like people have passed away or
people have been in car crashes and
stuff like this. And this is where I
think a lot of it built up a lot of its
tension. But also what Hollywood did to
it during the 70s with all the horror
films that were around in that period
also gave it a stigmatism for more
western culture.
>> Yeah. And also I mean when you go back
to like World War I uh when the
spiritualistic movement really sort of
took off uh because of people wanting to
contact their loved ones you know. So
this obviously skyrocketed in terms of
its popularity in in western culture um
first world.
>> Yeah. After the first world war and
through that time. So, you know, I mean,
uh, like you when you see the Ouija
board, you were like, "Oh, the Ouija
board." [laughter] You know, it's how
you take it. Whether you if you take a
light-hearted approach to it, use it as
a Yeah. sensibly. Don't ever go on this
under the influence because you're not
in your right mind. So, if anyone um
invites you into a party and there's
drink and drugs and stuff and they're
saying, "Ah, let's go on the boards."
Stay away. don't get involved in it and
make sure that that the people on the
board are very trustworthy and you know
they can always use my technique of
powder in between you know because
apparently um we never actually
physically touch anything because
between us and atoms there's always
atoms between something
>> so you never actually physic physically
touch anything I believe understood okay
but why are you guys summoned in the
first place is is it to uh prove that an
entity is there uh with the evidence
evidence or do you all also cleanse
places? No, we're not cleaners.
>> No, we No, we're not. We don't profess
to be able to not ex not exorcists.
We're not We can't clear environments.
Um, but I would add just one thing to
that because that is an interesting
thing. We don't cleanse the spirit. What
we do is we try to
um help the person who's experiencing
this and we sort of say to them, you
know, it's more about them, more about
their state of mind, more about, you
know, surroundings. Yeah. Like Yeah. Like
Like
>> setting up a structure
>> for their life to to sort of battle it
themselves and and and get through uh
the the emotional trauma that they're
experiencing as well. So yeah, we
cleanse I' say more the person's soul
than the actual soul that's haunting the
person if that makes sense. um you know
yeah I would I would spend hours talking
to them to try and get through to them
and sort of you know uh understand them
as a person and see what's troubling
them because that to me is more
rewarding than uh you know there is no
device or no sort of I know people can
profess to clear buildings and walk
around and you know obviously um they
they have that ability I don't have that
ability so I'm not going to actually um
you know fool anyone uh with mumbo jumbo
um that I don't know nothing about. So
and you know if they think they've got a
ghost they would call naturally they
would be looking for a ghost hunter or
paranormal investigator but I guess
>> we go there not trying to ramp it up. We
try to get an understanding of the
environment we're working in working
with the person to try to establish what
exactly is going on. Is it
environmental? Is it psychological or is
it essentially paranormal?
>> Before we move on with most stories, >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> do you want to give a step-by-step
procedure on the right way to use a
Ouija board?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, basically, the right
way to use a Ouija board is okay. First
of all, you have to be sound of mind.
There's no other way about it. That
means you, you know, obviously under no
influence whatsoever. Um
Um
yet again uh choose if if you do go on a
board, choose your participants
carefully. Make sure that they are sound
of mind as well and people you can trust
who you know are not going to um
interact with the board and sort of
start pushing it around uh because
otherwise it's a waste of time from the
beginning. Uh you need to um
>> well everyone has to have the same
agenda. Yeah. So no one if you got three
positive people on the board who want to
make just contact then you've got one
person who wants to
>> maybe contact more darker spirits don't
do it with them.
>> Yes. Stay avoid people that have dark uh
agenda. You know maybe they won't voice
it out but if they're internally wishing
for that it'll happen.
>> Yes. There's nothing you can do to
prevent that but you always ask the
question that we all all here for the
same reason.
>> Okay. Also, um it's not a a way of
contacting spirit. Um it is a divination
tool and it's also it's used as a
divination tool, but it's also a parlor
game. Okay? So, they have to be very
mindful that it's a parlor game. Um, so
if something does come onto the board,
they're going to need to have someone
who can uh obviously document all the
the letters and so and be very mindful
as well that like we talk today in text
messages like LOL and you know uh things
like that. Sometimes some of the
messages that come through come through
in code as well. And it's not until
you've actually read what you've um
called out uh back to yourself, you
realize then you go, "Hold on, that's
really strange. It spells so on and so
forth." And
>> um yeah, I mean uh
and then obviously I think is is you you
know say a prayer before opening the board.
board. >> Prayer
>> Prayer
>> um an opening prayer. Uh use the board
wisely. Have a noteaker. Um it may be
gibberish at the point at the time but
it may be using tongue that we don't
recognize. If you're in if we went to
India and we started using the board and
it was coming through in Hindi
>> we wouldn't have a clue what you're
talking about until we got home and
translated it
>> or you translated it for us while we
>> were you know [laughter] but I think
obviously you know old English and and
being able to if you're speaking to
people from 1600s they would have a
completely different dialect what we
have. So that's also important. Old
tongue may not be what we talk now. Um
and then obviously closing the board
properly with a closing prayer. Doesn't
matter what it is. Just anything that
makes you feel comfortable.
>> Yeah. In in your eyes, what's the oldest
spirit that you guys have come into
touch with
>> throughout the course of your work with
or without the Ouija board?
>> With or without the Ouija board, I would
have to say it's happening.
>> Yeah. I mean, as a famous highway man,
we used to investigate a pub that date
back to the 1500s.
>> And yes, um, a very reputedly haunted
location. Um, but we were dealing with
spirits dating back to like the 1500s.
>> It was the first contact I ever had, uh,
that we ever caught on film.
>> Um, and it wasn't an apparition. It was
what actually physically happened at the
time. Um and I I'll explain that if you
don't basically um so we was um we we we
got gone to the pub um I had two
walkie-talkies put one on the bar and
one on my hip. I was calling out a list
of um spirits or well a list of names
that associated with the pub and I got
to this one particular name Francesco
Pereira and as I said you know
Franchesco Pereira if you can hear my
voice can you please come through and at
that time at that point the
and I was like everyone went oh that was
like pretty close and I went so I
challenged it I
Okay. I said, "If that was you, do it
again." And then my walkie-talkie went
like that.
>> So, yeah. I mean, if you're in a dark,
you you'd be
>> That's not the end of the story. Almost
a year to the day, we were we were back
in the pub.
We'd done loads of investigating
throughout the pub, upstairs,
downstairs, and I left one walkie-talkie
on the bar.
hadn't gone off all night. >> No.
>> No.
>> So, we're sitting there. It's about 3 in
the morning.
>> In the morning,
>> and I said, "Okay." I said, "If there
are any spirits in this bar,
make the walkie-talkie go off." And it went
went [laughter]
[laughter]
>> I think, you know, like we all went, we
all just sort of looked at each other.
>> That was that was
>> But I think it's obviously it's
correlation. We're looking for answers
to the questions. You know, if it just
happened randomly, we might put it down
to interference and stuff, but
>> a mini being ordered.
>> Who knows?
>> And it's radio frequency, so you know,
you know,
>> but we're looking for tangible responses
to the questions you're asking.
>> You think it was Franchesco Pereira? >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> potentially. Yeah,
>> potentially. Yeah. I think when we when
we come to the conclusion, we're like,
>> yeah, I mean,
>> we ran through loads of names, but eight
names, and we got to Franchesco Pereira.
Franchesco Pereira and Jose Pereira were
the two brothers that formed the
Spaniards in. Yeah. So, that's where it
came from. They had they had a jewel
over a woman and one of them died.
>> Fontaine Lady Fontaine.
>> So basically it was a it was an old
story about how they passed over. One of
them passed over was shot and they were
both in love with the same women. Um but
yet again we were
reverting to characters and calling out
characters associated with the inn. It
landed on one of them and then all of a
sudden a chain of events just started
opening up and thereafter. Do you think
Franchesco's spirit was stuck in that bar?
bar?
>> We had evidence to say potentially. We
could never say yes, but we would always say
say
>> we got evidence to to support that fact.
>> Was it bothering people? >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Well, yeah. I mean, there were people
being pushed in the back like into Yeah.
tripped over into ladies toilets. Like
there was a lot of uh women complained
about being
>> forcibly pushed in the back. One of
those women was actually my mother, my
mother. She had the same experience. She
felt something push her in the back when
she was going into the toilets. This was
long before we even investigated the
place. I always remember saying, "Oh, it
was really weird. I was going in tight
and I felt something push me." So, um,
yeah. I mean, it's important to note as
well that there's actually living
quarters above the pub. Yeah. And that
date back to the original Spaniards in,
so the 1500s. So, all staff members have
a have a place to stay. And some of the
staff were very heavily impacted by it.
>> One girl couldn't literally her door was
it was like an entity had uh had hold of
her door handle and wouldn't let her out
of the room and she was screaming and
forcibly trying to to get out. She
couldn't open the door
>> and she couldn't open the door
>> and then all of a sudden it let go and
she she went flying backwards into her
bedroom. But we investigated that pub
intensively for many years
>> 10 year period. We were there for a long
time period like we went through that
pub and we got so many u pieces of evidence.
evidence. >> Um
>> Um
>> we couldn't film everything back then
cuz it was more difficult to film stuff
back then and obviously but you can
never have every angle covered.
>> What did Franchesco want?
>> I think to scare us or to to to make it
known that he they he was still there
still own the pub. And I think as well
which you think about is an active pub.
It's a lot of people coming through the
building. It would have been less busy
back then. So, it's a very well-known,
very famous pub. A lot of traffic coming
through there. So, maybe it was just
trying to give a sign that they were
still there and they were the ones who
who made the pub what it was.
>> Have you ever dreamt of something
related to a case where the entity in
question tried contacting you through
your dream?
Um, I would say no to that. But
in terms of having an entity interact
with people that I've known uh, who have
rung me up and like at 2:00 in the
morning to tell me that there's a figure
walking down the stairs wearing
a black cape and a tricorn hat. And I I
know like obviously the person would
have no knowledge of what we've done,
who we've been involved in. And that
that description is literally that of of
you know uh a highwayman. Uh the triorn
hat was like the triangular hat. When we
were doing investigations of the
Spaniards in for a period of like two
three years, it seemed like
this this entity was following us
around. Yeah. people dreaming about
seeing this vision but would have no
knowledge of
>> what we
>> what we were doing. So a lot of it was correlated.
correlated.
>> What was really weird was there was this
one particular time
>> wasn't evil
>> when um we was in the Spaniards filming
and I was poked in the eyeball
physically poked in the eyeball. And
then uh a couple of weeks later I I I
was sitting down with my friend and I
said like have a look at what we're
doing showing her the video and all of a
sudden from nowhere she just let out
this almighty scream and she went ah my
eye something just poked me in my eye
>> and I was like I was like oh my god no I
went I said just keep watching
[laughter] and then literally you know
half hour into the the video she sees me
getting poked in the
So, it's things like that. I mean, it's
very strange. Uh, really strange. Yeah.
Have you guys interacted with entities
that you guys felt were evil, old and
old? I mean there was one which I I I
won't forget and that was Bodman jail in
Cornwall Bodman jail which is you know
um reputedly haunted and I had the team
down one end of the uh in in uh the
prison cell down one end and I stayed at
the other end on my own and I said you
know um
you know if you want us to go give us a
sign and this stone like a rock a
cobblestone stone just went bang was
thrown like behind me um against the
wall really loud. We got we got we've
got that on video as well. But yeah,
like um this cobblestone from nowhere
was launched at the wall.
>> So that would be called poltergeist activity.
activity.
>> Yeah. I mean uh but that's a sign as if
to say they want us out, you know, but
it won't get me out. [laughter]
[laughter]
>> I mean we respect the boundaries of
course that we've traveled all the way
to Cornwall. We're not just going to be
running out of building [clears throat] basically.
basically.
>> I don't run out though. >> No.
>> No.
>> What is a poltergeist?
>> A poltergeist is essentially a it's a
German for noisy ghost or noisy spirit,
right? Yeah.
>> Um it basically is is a entity that is
able to interact with objects
surrounding the area and can use it to
make noises, bangs, throw things. And
you know, we've had people ring us up
saying we've had things thrown across
the room. um doors closing, slamming,
knocking, opening lock doors. That's
typical poltergeist activity.
>> Yeah, we've had I mean there are many
documented cases globally of poltergeist
activity, you know, um all over the
world. One famous case is the Enfield poltergeist.
poltergeist.
>> Um that's the most famous.
>> Yeah, that's probably one of the most
famous cases in the UK is the Enfield
poltergeist. Um there are others of
course uh that that been very well documented.
documented.
>> Why is this case famous? Uh because uh
basically uh the witnesses involved
included um like obviously there were
credible witnesses um police officers um
you know there was a a lollipop lady um reporters
reporters
um members of the society for psychical
research um Morris Gross who I I had the
great pleasure of meeting and and
working with. He documented um you know
that that case for
a couple of years and you know he was
able to ascertain that there was
definitely something going on. There was
a young girl involved in that who was um
the the entity was talking through her larynx.
larynx.
>> We'll see if he'll speak to us. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Is anybody there?
>> No. No.
>> Who's there? Dr.
>> Doctor Who.
>> And uh so she wasn't actually physically
talking, but the spirit was talking
using her as as a portal and it was
like, you know, coming from the back of
her neck, but using um you know,
>> using parts of voice box supposedly a
girl's voice could never reach.
>> No, she would have to literally be the
greatest ventriloquist in the world. and
and um when when they you know like they
they actually found out at the end of
the case study uh it was like a 2-year
case study
um that the the the the entity revealed
himself as Bill Wilkins and um
and basically when the evidence was
played and aired um I believe his son
um heard this um voice and he came
forward and recognized it as his
father's voice and he approached Morris
and said that's my dad you know sounds
like that
>> and he did he died in in that house in
uh in a chair in the corner and
obviously they went to the graveyard and
there there it was his grave and when
they got the death certificate the death
certificate was exactly how you know the
young 10year-old girl 11-year-old at the
time, whatever, she she was able to to
say, you know, um her name's Bill and
well, you know, the entity's name was
Bill and died of a brain hemorrhage and
went blind before he died, you know, but
um yeah,
>> this is before the days of internet, so
you couldn't really
So this girl couldn't really have any
much knowledge about what happened
before they came and moved into the house.
house.
>> Yeah. So obviously there are a lot of
people that debunk it and try to sort of
you know but I spoke to Morris and he's
he was such a lovely genuine man.
>> What what [clears throat] was the father
trying to tell the son?
>> No he wasn't trying to tell the son. It
was the fact that he came through just
to say this is my house
>> and it was quite an aggressive form of
like a girl was being lifted up out of
the bed, thrown in the air
>> across the room
>> across the room and they they invited
the the newspapers to come and document
the case and they managed to capture the moment
moment
>> she was
>> she was thrown out of the bed. So So the
thing is is that in our field we tried
to document the evidence by camera, by
audio, however means to try and get
something on camera. This case was
obviously back in the 70s. Technology
wasn't that great, but they were able to
document things happening through voice
recordings, um, you know, video
recording, uh, photography, and using
credible witnesses such as the police
who would come in the house, they would
hear be hearing thumping in the walls,
>> Legos, Lego bricks
>> being thrown at them. So, so this is why
we we we say
the the foundations of any case is is
the witness is the participants and then
I guess the structure of the
investigation and the fact that Morris
Gross was such a a credible investigator.
investigator.
>> How did this particular case wind down?
I I think the uh media interest fizzled
out and uh I believe that the the the
actual once they established who it was
um the the the family started to realize
that you know I mean did the entity
presented itself less and less and less
and less and like yeah just like what we
say with the Ouija once they're
established they've had their little uh
hissy fit they come out and they're like
you know this is me here this is my
space I'm in my space get out and then
once you like you say like Dean said
earlier if if you just show them that
you're not a threat you're not um you're
not there for any sort of other reason
than to either interact with them or
it's your home or whatever then you know
>> I think the family gained more control
and it was more about the fact of it
done its worst it couldn't do much worse
and if the more they
>> the more they established that you know
it was drawing their energy drawn down
>> they lived on their fear Yeah. Yeah. So
when they took a break and they moved
out of the house, they took a break,
came back
>> and it died down.
>> It died down because they took I think
they took her away on holiday for a long
time. She went into a hospital for a
bit, came out, and she was more solid as
a person.
>> And now the house there's nothing there.
>> No, it lived in the field. Yeah. I mean,
once it was established, told its story,
and that was it. I'm sure the people
that live there now, they they know
there's nothing there now. So it's just
like it's just an ordinary house now.
But obviously at that moment there was
um a troubled family. The energy it was
picking up from what was going on with
the family, you know, with the mom um
breaking up with the the dad and you
know and the children suffering and
>> what the belief system is in regards to
polar guys is that they pray on people
that are
>> vulnerable vulnerable and that's what
most cases seem to
>> and vulnerability is defined by
>> emotional trauma.
>> It could be emotional trauma. Yeah. or
>> just a bad atmosphere uh you know events
happening that's you know if like
there's a divorce um or separation or
there's things going on in your personal life
life
has a negative impact on someone it can
impact their negative mindset
>> yeah alcohol abuse and drug abuse
>> yeah alcohol drugs all that um can feed
can feed the the belief that something's
going on your you you know so yeah your
best to always remain grounded keep your
feet on the floor because that's why the
earth's here. So you can, you know, you
know where you stand.
>> If you end up on the ceiling, then you
got to
>> then you call us. [laughter]
>> But some people don't realize like they
got like a sort of, you know, um
>> an old house.
>> Yeah. The the buildings expand and
contract and there's movement under
underground and you've got like in
infrasounds from all kinds of things
that could be happening miles away. you
know, there could be infrasounds coming
from traffic um you know, about you
know, half a mile down the road and it's
traveling through the ground into their environment.
environment.
>> A very interesting one is where we've
we've gone into pubs and they've had
glasses reported of glasses being thrown
or being tipped over, but we've been
investigating and we've we've lries have
gone past or big vehicles, but they
cause a vibration in the in the floor
>> and move the glasses slowly gradually gradually
gradually
>> and then off they go, you know. So when
they're there at that moment, it's
because obviously the lorries or the
buses or that have gone past throughout
the day have been slowly moving that
bottle towards the edge ready for it to
go. So when they capture it on CCTV or
whatever, they're like, "It's a ghost."
That's a natural thing. Everyone does
that. We know that. But not everything
is a ghost. Uh you know, there's
>> there's there's explanations, rational
explanations for a lot of the things.
>> Gotcha. Okay. I'm sure you guys have a
memory of all the ghosts or entities
that you guys met over the course of the
last 28 years.
>> Yeah, around 8 years. Yeah,
>> it's 28 years that you guys have been
>> ghost hunters. [laughter]
>> Sorry to use that.
>> I like that term though. We That's what
I prefer. Ghost hunters, not ghost
busters. We don't bust ghosts. We don't
go around busting them. We, you know, we
don't go around with a pen and go.
We are ghost hunters respectively. You
know, that's what we're doing. We're
hunting ghosts. We're
>> or looking for the for for evidence of
the afterlife. That's that's what I
really that that is my my goal. And I'm
pretty sure like Fedine who's very
skeptical wants the same thing. You
know, even though we we have different
belief systems, ultimately we still have
the same goal in
>> we respect each other's view. And
>> yeah, that's it. Um,
in your entire library of memories,
do you all do you guys have ghosts that
you classify as male spirits and female spirits?
spirits?
>> That's a good question.
>> Well, I mean, I think obviously it
depends on
the location if it's deemed to be
haunted by a particular subject. So, a
lot of castles have white ladies and
blue ladies and red ladies. So they have
color codes for their ladies.
>> I don't know.
>> It's just something that's very
>> synonyominous with castles being like
maidens and uh historical figures in
that in that time frame. Um they are
deemed to be Yeah, I do I do have an
sort of my own sort of idea why they
have different sort of color
perspectives. It's because of the
spectrum of light that they actually
travel in.
>> Wow. So um when they manifest they
manifest in a particular spectrum of
light. So hence why you get the white
lady, the blue lady, the red lady just
like I suppose like ultraviolet light.
We can't see without UV lights.
>> Uh and then through Yeah. Sorry.
>> I mean effectively this is physics of
color where
>> Yeah. physics of color. We're able to
see seven colors.
>> Yeah. But beyond the color red is the
infrared range. >> Infrared
>> Infrared
>> and the human eyes not able to see
infrared. No.
>> And beyond the blue side is the
ultraviolet range. Yes. Hence where we
use flur um forwardlooking infrared um cameras.
cameras.
>> Um I didn't bring one with me today but
um we do use forwardlooking infrared
flur to go and look into that spectrum
of light. So um you know and obviously
we use ultraviolet light as well to
detect what's in that ultraviolet range.
It helps you in gunding.
>> Yeah, we we we had um uh one particular
case at the Spani in didn't we Dean? And uh
uh
>> it's a very interesting tell you what
happened there.
>> So obviously we we H just got this
device. It's attach it to your phone.
It's a thermal imaging camera. enables
you to be able to show if something's
touched and it's cold, it's blue. And if
it's touched and it's white, it's either
yellow or white.
>> Um in heat symbols.
>> If if it's touched, if it's cold and
it's touched, it's blue.
>> If it's hot and it's touched, it's
normally white or or yellow.
>> Um that shows heat. Um,
Um,
>> we were in the middle of a Ouija board
session in a room and all of a sudden we
heard the door unlatch and it just opened
opened
>> just like that.
>> But then we H was like, "Okay, let me
get my phone moving camera." We actually
filmed the handle and the handle was
white hot.
>> White hot. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> To show that >> 90°
>> 90°
>> had physically touched that object, turn
the knob.
>> Cold brass. Yeah, it's a brass. Yeah.
And obviously brass is a good heat
conductor so it enabled to hold on to
the heat.
>> And this was witnessed by a news crew. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Gotcha.
>> Gotcha.
>> Um if if any of the three of us touch
the handle, it'll be white as well.
>> What I find interesting is that it
wasn't actually
it was hot and wasn't cold. I would have
expected it to be really cold. If it's a
spirit, I wouldn't have thought they
would be able to generate heat.
>> But this is beyond our comprehension. We
don't really know. We can't really
explain. And I think as well people
attribute dark spirits to black in color
and good spirits in white in color. Some
reason that's also what is de deviated
to be uh the norm in in in paranormal
research. So if you see a dark shadow
dark figure, you instantly think it's a
>> dark of nature
and it's like you know.
>> Yeah. Uh but that could be subculturally
coming from uh your childhood when your
you know your parents say oh you know
>> now or the dark
>> yeah you know Harry Potter's dementors
>> something like that. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> It's it's a very physical representation.
representation. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> You know it's
>> Have you guys used the camera and seen
something that was blue in color?
>> Like colder?
>> Yeah I've seen cold spots. Um um I'm
more interested in hot spots, but yeah,
I've seen cold spots um you know um on camera.
camera.
>> So what do you think classifies the
spirits according to temperature? Like
we spoke about the blue, red, and white
ladies in castles. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But what's the classification?
>> If you're filming with this camera, you
if we're human beings, we're you'd all
be generating heat
>> where we use it also as well to I guess
if we all we know one two three are
picked up on camera. If there was
something other worldly or something we
don't understand or comprehend was shown
in blue or had a a life source to it and
was shown in whatever color it was, it
would show up on the camera and we'd be
able to physically see that.
>> Are you able to see a silhouette of
human beings? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> On camera. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Really?
>> So it just shows you your outline your
heat source. So this is why we use it in
paranormal research because if we can't
we we might use night vision cameras but
use infrared but this is obviously uses
thermal imaging so it gives another
dimension to that.
>> Ah I because I would assume that it's
it's simply the place where the feet
land or whatever the hands touch but
you're saying that you're able to see a
bit of a silhouette.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean you would be able to
if you
>> I reviewed uh some evidence once uh for
a TV show and they had uh this this face
someone had caught a face on the thermal
imaging camera and wherever they they
moved the camera the face was still
there on the camera and they was like
looking around the room but you could
still see this physical face of a man
looking into the camera. now. Okay. So,
I'm not saying that was a ghost per se,
but it could be that yeah, it could be
um lens scarring through light. You
know, as you know, you can get scarring
on onto a lens and it may have just
stayed there. They might have just
filmed one of their colleagues quickly
and his face is stuck there. So, every
time they're looking around, they you
know, yeah, it does look like a spirit.
It does look like an entity. Uh I mean
yeah but you can or I say you can detect
um heat sources changing in the
environment with a flur um camera.
Um we
and I'll say this, we've never actually
captured a line a form. No,
>> we've never captured the form,
>> but that's what we use it for in in the
event of But we also obviously cold
spots and temperature fluctuations are
go hand in hand with paranormal
research. That's also a good way of
being able to if anyone feels a
temperature drop around their hands or
some people will say, "Oh, I've got a cold.
cold.
>> My hands are freezing cold." You can
instantly check and [clears throat] see
whether or not really there is like a
cold hand on there.
>> Yeah. cuz it would show if someone held
if something cold if you hold >> said
>> said
>> if you hold an ice pack over your hand
you would take that off your hand would
be blue
>> but you're able to at least you you've
got handprints
>> on people's hands no we haven't caught
that but I'm saying that that what if if
you did
>> that's what you're looking for
>> there are paranormal investigators all
over the world who've been able to catch figures
figures
>> there has been yeah there has been not
obvious we didn't film it we can't say
whether it was genuine or not but yes
they have caught things on film
>> I mean yeah There are people that have
used Flur cameras that have seen
entities walking across corridors from
door to door
>> and manifesting in courtyards and things
like that. Yes.
>> Mhm. [clears throat]
>> Um, can we talk about this male spirit,
female spirit thing again?
>> Yeah, I can. I don't know why this is
okay. But, and I don't know if Dean
agrees with me. I mean, if you ask men
if they're afraid of male spirits or
female spirits, they'll usually say
female spirits.
>> Yeah, I'm not surprised. And and I see
the opposite for women. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like girls get scared of male spirits. >> Me,
>> Me,
I I'm not scared of anything, anything
that comes my way. I used to be, don't
get me wrong, I used to be scared um of
like when I very first started out cuz
it was like a whole new adventure, but
now I'm hardened to it now. So, male,
female, dog, cats, which I've seen
really weird animals because that that
was something that really blew my mind
>> because when I see the cat, I was
standing at my friend's house and um she
was asleep and I had to rush back to
London and I woke her up and I said,
"I'm so sorry. Um, you know, I've got to
go. I've got to go." Um, I said, you
know, and then she just turned around
and she went, "Do you see my cat?" And I
was like, "Oh my god." I was like, "No
way." I said, "Oh my god, Lori, I see
the cat." She said, "In the bedroom." I
went, "Yes." She goes, "Yeah." She goes,
"Everyone sees the cat." And I see the cat.
cat.
You know, a manifestation of a cat with
a towel, head, legs, the lot. But what
gal was? It was just the outline. It was
like a It was like It was weird. I can't
even explain what I was looking at. It
It was just It was there. It was a
physical form of a cat. There was no
color. There was no It was You know, it
just interact. You know, like the film Predator.
Predator. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> When Predator's in the trees. That's the
only way to describe what I see was like
that when when Predator goes invisible.
And it was it was almost like that. It's
like the room had been disturbed by the
shape of a cat
>> and it and and it was like for
4 seconds if that you could see through
it. I could see through the cat. Yeah.
>> See through the cat but the outline of a
cat. Has a similar thing happened with
the outline of a human. Yes. You've seen
Yeah. With um that was in the span in me
and James.
>> I mean for me I mean this is I suppose
how most of people would attribute
seeing the spirit or ghost. they would
say they've seen an outline or they've
seen a figure of some sort. They can't
exactly describe too much detail, but
it's more of a a a transparent in
nature, but I've never seen a physical
form. I've never seen a ghost. That's
why I'm still on the fence. But with
Hazel, she's actually seen
>> and experience with um Dean's brother
James and we were just having a
conversation over over a table talking
and precisely at the same moment me and
James went like that and this form
just the torso flashed between us and we
both see the same thing and I said don't
say nothing. I mean,
just write down what you see. So, he
wrote down Dick Turpin and I wrote down
Dick Turpin. Wasn't because of where we
were. It's actually what we see. Half a
torso with a figure with a tricorn hat
>> and it it was like gray in form, but it
it manifested within an instant. It was
like not even two seconds. It was like
doom, gone.
>> I was in the same room. I didn't see nothing.
nothing.
>> Yeah. So, is that because I'm more of a
closed book or is because H and my
brother are more on the on the on the
believing side of it? So, I think is
this a form where if you've got more
skeptical views, you may not be
>> able to see or spirits might might not
want to show himself to you. If you're
more of a believer, maybe they may have a
a
>> Yeah, I a more of a nature.
>> I agree with this. I think that uh uh
and this is something that's been
reaffirmed over the course of doing this
show as well as in not just this episode
but all the paranormal episodes. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Magic reveals itself to those who truly
believe it exists.
>> I agree.
>> It's the same.
>> I think so. 85% of men in this country
will probably be like, "That's a load of
load of crap. I don't care." Um you
know, they'll probably brush it off. But
I think is that also unless you actually
have a a real experience, I think most
men are also frightened by the subject.
I think because then I think that if
anything does happen, it would probably
show a more vulnerable side to them.
Even if for us, if we actually did
>> see a genuine manifestation of a ghost
on camera or in front of me,
>> how would I react?
>> I think my epic campus is open.
>> I mean, I'll definitely say that uh you
have some psychic abilities. I mean,
your brain has waves. So these brainwave
patterns are received by people like
myself who are able to what is around
you because it's all fabricated. The
only real thing around you
>> is the heavens above.
>> That's real space.
>> Everything else [snorts] around you is fabricated.
fabricated.
>> That's your
>> you know except unless you're in a
field. [laughter]
>> You guys would enjoy India a lot. >> Oh
>> Oh
get us over to India. Show us all the
sites. Don't worry.
There's so much paranormal stuff.
>> Do you know what as well Ram is I think
that's important to discuss is you know
sort of residual energy. I think that
when people talk about, you know, what
makes a a location haunted, is it actual
the deceased still being there like in
some kind of form or is it that because
they lived in this because cultures have
lived in a particular location or have
been through a location for two, 300,
400 years, is that energy still felt
within the foundations of that building?
So, you may not actually be picking up
on, let's say, spirits walking around on
the earth plane, but you may be picking
up on uh just the energy field that
>> a recording or something that's been
obtained by the actual um fabric that
you're actually in and that's being able
to be felt by groups of people. And I
think that's what what you'd call a a
residual haunting is that it's something
that's just basically grounded to that
location. It's something that's always
there, will never move on. the sweat of
a ghost. It's more about
Yeah. I mean, how they died, how they
passed away. If you have a place where
it was a very quick and sudden end,
supposedly that's attributed to like if
you had hangings and people met their
death very quickly, they didn't have
time to process the death itself. So, if
you had places like hospitals where it
was a quite a long way to to to pass
over, you may not get so much residual
energy. But those who have passed away
very suddenly, it may be heavier because
I think that the way I mean this is all
interpretation but I think this is what
residual energy sort of pointed out is
that it's the way people die the the
foundations of the building. Is it
really actually a ghost? Is it haunting
or is it just something that is an
environmental factor that happens to be
you know
>> how how do you measure residual energy?
I guess it's basically a form of um this
is where I suppose meters would come
into it because I guess you'd have a a
form of if because the EMF field is a
the electromagnetic field is something
that is believed that spirits use to be
able to manifest
>> manifest itself. Let's let's talk about
the EMF field. We've spoken about this
in the past on this show,
>> but I would love for you guys to pick up
a piece of equipment and then begin an
explanation on the EMF field.
Okay, so this EMF meter, this is an
antiquated, which means antique piece of
analog EMF readings. So these these
really were used in the field um in the
early days of ghost hunting. Um I I
believe you can't get them now is uh but
yeah anyway I mean so basically this
would have given you um and it's
believed that um between the ranges of 0
and three um which is what we use in the
magnetic field reading. So the earth has
a natural reading between 0 and one. Um
so anything above the one starts to
point to a change in the electromagnetic
field. So if there spirit here a spirit
energy or an entity can you please make
the needle um rise to three which is
just here and just to show us can you do
it now? Can you spike the needle? Can
you can you spike the needle?
If there are any energies here because I believe
believe
if there's an energy here then spike the
needle to three.
>> Yeah. Spike the needle to three. Can you
please do that now on the count of three?
three? Two.
Two. One.
One. Now.
Now.
>> So there's nothing here.
>> There's nothing. But I'm not saying See,
this is the weird thing with hauntings.
Oh, here we go. So this is the weird
thing. Obviously with electrical pieces
of equipment, they can interact. As you
can see, I'm getting a a spike now. But
see, if I take that away from I mean,
obviously, we're surrounded by lights
and so on and so forth. But, I mean,
yes, effectively that that should not
spike to three. If it does, then we're
in uh if it's 3 millig and above, then
you're you're you're in a um a place
where you shouldn't be because high
levels of um EMF um you know, apparently
is attributed to um cancers and yeah,
radiation, poisoning, and so on and so
forth, especially with microwaves and so
on and so forth. So, use a microwave,
stand well away until it's finished.
>> Give it 10 seconds, then go back with uh
So, yeah, I mean, obviously, we would
use this in the field to first go
around. I would do um an analog reading
um before Dean would go and do a digital
reading um of of the um digital
>> a bit easier to
Are you the electric field or magnetic?
The magnetic field would be more. >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> So,
as you get closer, you can hear it. But
if you've done a sweep of the location
and you've written down your
measurements, if you go later into that
room, you should have the same readings.
>> The environment really shouldn't change.
But then if you've getting spikes
responses to your questions up to four,
five, six,
>> then there's no real explanation for that.
that.
>> Especially if you've you've done a
reading earlier,
>> got all your baseline readings. So
you're saying that you go into a room uh
ideally more than once. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Take all your baseline
readings, know where all your
powerpoints are,
>> not them
before we get to a location. So, make
like a little mini map drawing of, you
know, your your red hot spots, what you
call your hot spots, so you know where
the EMF fields are high. Stay away from
those areas. Um, and try to conduct your
investigation in an area with where
where there are no um electromagnetic
fields, any fluctuations, and then
conduct your research there. then see
whether or not you get the
>> but also the human voice plays a role
here where you said that if there's any
energy here please make your presence felt.
felt.
>> Yes, of course. I mean that that's just
you know uh you're trying to evoke um a
spirit that I mean you know just as I
would I would treat you in life as I
would treat you in death. So you know um
I would talk to you exactly the same way
I would talk to um yeah spirit.
>> Do they always respond?
No, not always. I mean, uh,
>> I mean, there shouldn't be there
shouldn't be really any fluctuation. I
mean, we're happy with if we're we're
content if it's just >> nothing.
>> nothing.
>> There you go. Cuz we know what the
Earth's field is. We know what we what
we're dealing with. But then if it does start
start
>> kicking off or giving off readings, then
we get excited, but we don't expect to
see the reading. We don't expect it.
>> But when we do,
>> then we start to ask intelligent
questions. Yeah.
>> We start to tune. we start a dialogue
and to see if there's a a correlation
between our questioning and the response.
response.
>> You ask yes and no questions or
>> it's a Q&A session. So yeah, it be like
are you male? Are you female? Did you
die here? Um
>> if if you're male, go to three. If
you're female, go to three.
>> Yeah. Or or some some EMF meters have
just color codes. So it would be like uh
green would be nothing and red would be
a high reading. So we'd say flash to red
if you can hear my voice and it will
flash to red. M
>> then we've got contact
>> and then we'll say are you male
>> flash red
>> or it stay green and then we say you female
female
stay there are you a child
>> it'll go straight up come down we'll ask
the question again are you a child it
will go up are you a male are you female
are you a child
>> so it's that correlation
>> that's that Q&A session but we have we
have got the
>> in regards to meters it's very difficult
I mean it's only happened on a handful
of occasions but to get actual
intelligent communication, but we did
manage to capture a 2 to 3 minute
segment where we actually obtained genuine
genuine
intelligent communication. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> With a child entity on film. This can be
seen on our our evidence page on our website.
website.
>> So, are we going back to like the First
>> Not that much. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Huh? It made a noise. >> Wait,
>> Wait,
>> someone just
>> heard a girl with voice.
>> Where? Where was this?
>> This was down in a disused underground station
station
>> station in
>> in uh Ken's town. >> London.
>> London. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So what what what happened?
>> For people to find out [laughter] what
happened, they can go to the evidence page.
page.
>> But I just to give it an over but to
give it an overview. Of course, it was
it was um staff staff had reported
seeing a an entity uh movement of a
young girl
>> um heard voices and and shadows.
>> And I'll tell you something else which
um that event if you remember at the end
we said if you want us out of here get
us out of here and the place flooded. >> Flooded.
>> Flooded. >> Flooded.
>> Flooded.
>> Yeah. Yeah, we had to evacuate because
it started raining very heavily and then
all of a sudden we it just rains came up
and uh we we were yeah
>> within 10 minutes all of us we had to
get 30 people out of this uh
>> whether that's coincidental it could be
but we asked the question you know um
get us out of here if you if you want us
out you don't want us here and then all
of a sudden uh the rain came down the
drains filled up in underground where we
were and all the water came up and
flooded the uh location. So, we all had
to leave.
>> This was [laughter] the spirit of a child.
child.
>> Yeah. Well,
>> who knows what I mean?
>> Who knows? Uh
>> but the responses we were getting was
from the spirit of a child. And what
ties in with that is we actually managed
to catch her
>> her voice.
>> This is what I'm saying about
correlation. A the location you're in. B
does it tie in with the actual haunting
and the experience of the witnesses?
Yes, we tick that box.
>> Did we manage to film it? Yes, we tick
that box. Did we get direct
communication? Yes, we ticked that box
and then we managed to catch a an audio >> of
>> of
>> a disembodied voice of a young child
>> of a young child. So, we were speaking
to a young child. Then we actually heard
the voice of a young child.
>> I never heard it on your like radio
>> on my phone. We recorded it. Only I
heard it and another person next to me.
I was like, did anyone else hear that? I heard
heard
>> there's about eight of us do that at
present, but only two of them heard the
voice. You kept the voice recorder on
and just put it on.
>> It was It was actually film caught on
film. So, we were filming the subject.
So, with the EMF meters were going so we
could see the actual evidence. I was
filming that, but then I heard a voice
and I said, "Does anyone else hear
that?" And the the guys next to me said,
"Yeah, I heard uh sound like a voice."
And when played it back,
it's as clear as day.
>> What was the jail's voice like? Just
normal jail. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
I mean, you know, you're in a room full
of adults and you hear a young girl's voice.
voice.
>> What did she say? >> Oh,
>> Oh,
>> do we say no? Because like Yeah. See,
that's the thing.
>> Well, just say just say it was it was it
was a response to
>> the question. Look, we could film
video after video after video after
video on YouTube and all these different
>> of, you know, all investigations, but
you know what? There's no point in that
for us. We want to
show people, you know, something that
they can go, wow, you know, okay, that's believable.
believable.
>> And you can see the reaction of us as
well on on camera
>> and it's like it's genuine. It's real
and that is a genuine piece of footage because that's what it's all about.
because that's what it's all about. >> That's yeah, ultimately that's what it's
>> That's yeah, ultimately that's what it's about. I mean, yeah. Why did she want to
about. I mean, yeah. Why did she want to do old is used as an air ra during the
do old is used as an air ra during the war and it dates back to obviously who
war and it dates back to obviously who knows when, but you know, it may not
knows when, but you know, it may not have been her. It may have been another
have been her. It may have been another spirit, but
spirit, but no one was ever harmed or no witnesses
no one was ever harmed or no witnesses were ever like feeling like it was a
were ever like feeling like it was a dark spirit. It just felt like if that
dark spirit. It just felt like if that was a their way of of showing us a sign,
was a their way of of showing us a sign, then there's their way.
then there's their way. >> Over the 30 years of your work, what
>> Over the 30 years of your work, what have you realized that most of them
have you realized that most of them want? What are their desires?
want? What are their desires? >> I suppose really it's just to to um just
>> I suppose really it's just to to um just the same as our desires to make contact.
the same as our desires to make contact. Social put yourself in that position.
Social put yourself in that position. Now you're on the other side. Yeah.
Now you're on the other side. Yeah. You're you're going to be trying,
You're you're going to be trying, you know, obviously um you you you'll
you know, obviously um you you you'll try if you want to make contact. Yeah.
try if you want to make contact. Yeah. If you see like me and Dean sitting
If you see like me and Dean sitting there going, you know, are you here
there going, you know, are you here spirit? And you're like, I know these
spirit? And you're like, I know these guys. Oh, let me try and get through.
guys. Oh, let me try and get through. Would you say that the biggest problem
Would you say that the biggest problem is loneliness?
is loneliness? I mean, I suppose it depends on maybe
I mean, I suppose it depends on maybe how they passed over. I guess it's just
how they passed over. I guess it's just if if someone passed over peacefully on
if if someone passed over peacefully on their on their deathbed,
their on their deathbed, >> no no no other no other business. They
>> no no no other no other business. They know what they need to do. They've gone.
know what they need to do. They've gone. They've passed over. I think if people
They've passed over. I think if people maybe feel they got unfinished business
maybe feel they got unfinished business or they left the world very young
or they left the world very young >> and they didn't want to leave the world.
>> and they didn't want to leave the world. >> I think that's more driving your
>> I think that's more driving your question. I think that in some cases
question. I think that in some cases it's actually taken us two or three or
it's actually taken us two or three or we've gone there two times, nothing's
we've gone there two times, nothing's happened, but yet we treat it as, okay,
happened, but yet we treat it as, okay, we're going to go about this time and
we're going to go about this time and maybe they'll like our energy. Maybe
maybe they'll like our energy. Maybe they'll be warm to us. They'll see we're
they'll be warm to us. They'll see we're not a threat. So, it may have taken
not a threat. So, it may have taken three or four investigations to start
three or four investigations to start getting established
getting established >> establishment. Um,
>> establishment. Um, >> in in India, and not just in India,
>> in in India, and not just in India, honestly, this is all over the world,
honestly, this is all over the world, it's believed that children are often
it's believed that children are often able to see things that adults can't.
able to see things that adults can't. But the course of human life and
But the course of human life and emotional trauma takes away that
emotional trauma takes away that ability.
ability. >> Well, I'll give you one fascinating
>> Well, I'll give you one fascinating fact. Children all around the world um
fact. Children all around the world um reported Yeah. that um you see here this
reported Yeah. that um you see here this is called the feltum in between your
is called the feltum in between your Yeah. This little bit here called the
Yeah. This little bit here called the feltum
feltum >> between the nose and the lips.
>> between the nose and the lips. >> Yes. But many children all around the
>> Yes. But many children all around the world reported
world reported um from different cultures, different
um from different cultures, different countries before they came back, before
countries before they came back, before they were reincarnated,
they were reincarnated, they chose their mommies and daddies and
they chose their mommies and daddies and the angel erased their memories by
the angel erased their memories by stroking them there.
stroking them there. Yep. They're stroking the feltum. But
Yep. They're stroking the feltum. But that was weird cuz it was in different
that was weird cuz it was in different cultures around the world that done
cultures around the world that done this. they they they they found
this. they they they they found >> I think like you know most of the global
>> I think like you know most of the global population is is it follows some form of
population is is it follows some form of religion and I think you're primed for a
religion and I think you're primed for a very very early age to to follow
very very early age to to follow religion or or and to follow spirit I
religion or or and to follow spirit I think it's very heavily ingrained in
think it's very heavily ingrained in society but I think obviously as well as
society but I think obviously as well as an investigators you're primed if you're
an investigators you're primed if you're going to a place you believe it to be
going to a place you believe it to be haunted you're also primed in the same
haunted you're also primed in the same sense so like you're already halfway
sense so like you're already halfway there to say that it's it's haunted so I
there to say that it's it's haunted so I think that priming does go on from a
think that priming does go on from a very early age and I guess it's
very early age and I guess it's >> where the culturally is is susceptible
>> where the culturally is is susceptible to you. Um, you will probably follow
to you. Um, you will probably follow that path more more or less. Is there
that path more more or less. Is there any other topic you'd like to shed light
any other topic you'd like to shed light on?
on? >> Yeah, I have a I have a question.
>> Yeah, I have a I have a question. >> Sure.
>> Sure. >> How did you find us? [laughter]
>> I had this dream actually about No, no. [clears throat]
[clears throat] Uh,
Uh, uh, we're always looking out for guests
uh, we're always looking out for guests related to the paranormal in the UK
related to the paranormal in the UK because I've come to realize that there
because I've come to realize that there is a bit of a subculture here.
is a bit of a subculture here. >> Oh, yeah. Uh, and case in point being
>> Oh, yeah. Uh, and case in point being the Treadwell's bookshop. I don't know
the Treadwell's bookshop. I don't know if you can.
if you can. >> Yes, I know. Treadwells.
>> Yes, I know. Treadwells. >> And there's another one whose name I
>> And there's another one whose name I can't remember. It starts with
can't remember. It starts with >> Watkins. Oh, yes. I know.
>> Watkins. Oh, yes. I know. >> They're like sister shops.
>> They're like sister shops. >> Little far apart from each other. So,
>> Little far apart from each other. So, uh,
uh, >> that that's not where we found you guys.
>> that that's not where we found you guys. That's a part of the subculture. We just
That's a part of the subculture. We just found you guys by googling u London's
found you guys by googling u London's paranormal situation.
paranormal situation. >> Okay. Yeah. cuz I was
>> Okay. Yeah. cuz I was >> the SEO
>> the SEO >> did a great job.
>> did a great job. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's up to
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's up to you.
you. >> Oh god.
>> Oh god. >> No. I'm just saying that you know we the
>> No. I'm just saying that you know we the website you know SEO Google it's great.
website you know SEO Google it's great. It works.
It works. >> Yeah. Uh as right at the top and it it
>> Yeah. Uh as right at the top and it it seemed the most real.
seemed the most real. >> Yeah. Identity, you know, brand identity
>> Yeah. Identity, you know, brand identity even though we're we're paranormal ghost
even though we're we're paranormal ghost hunters. I think for us or for me
hunters. I think for us or for me personally it was how we are presented
personally it was how we are presented and how we show ourselves because I
and how we show ourselves because I think that you know we don't want to be
think that you know we don't want to be showing floating ghosts on our website.
showing floating ghosts on our website. We want to become across as Chris
We want to become across as Chris professional and real and I think that
professional and real and I think that that's what's always had that's our
that's what's always had that's our mission you know you do.
mission you know you do. >> Yeah I'm I'm really pleased to hear
>> Yeah I'm I'm really pleased to hear that.
that. >> That's thank you. Yeah because we
>> That's thank you. Yeah because we actually thought it was from a friend of
actually thought it was from a friend of ours in Mumbai called Syia who will
ours in Mumbai called Syia who will probably get to see this. Hi Sonia.
probably get to see this. Hi Sonia. Yes.
Yes. >> Uh you know I've got to send her love
>> Uh you know I've got to send her love cuz I love Sonia and uh but yeah
cuz I love Sonia and uh but yeah obviously she will get to see this cuz
obviously she will get to see this cuz I'm going to make sure she gets a copy.
I'm going to make sure she gets a copy. >> What I'd like to say as well is just
>> What I'd like to say as well is just basically or do you want to talk first
basically or do you want to talk first and I can just uh
and I can just uh >> on that.
>> on that. >> What do you guys think of Treadwell's
>> What do you guys think of Treadwell's bookshop? It's a legend.
bookshop? It's a legend. >> Yeah, I love Treadwells. In fact, I've
>> Yeah, I love Treadwells. In fact, I've one of I've got a book with me with a
one of I've got a book with me with a Treadwell's uh bookmark in it actually.
Treadwell's uh bookmark in it actually. I love Treadwells. It's a fantastic
I love Treadwells. It's a fantastic workshop.
>> Watkins. >> Yeah, Watkins.
>> Yeah, Watkins. >> So, we went Okay, we went to both. Both
>> So, we went Okay, we went to both. Both are fantastic.
are fantastic. >> Watkins, Sharon Cross, uh down in
>> Watkins, Sharon Cross, uh down in >> It's a Coven Garden. I don't
>> It's a Coven Garden. I don't >> Yeah, it's Yeah, Co Garden. Yeah.
>> Yeah, it's Yeah, Co Garden. Yeah. >> Uh but I mean that's a couple of shops
>> Uh but I mean that's a couple of shops that I'd point every tourist towards. If
that I'd point every tourist towards. If you're ever in London and inclined
you're ever in London and inclined towards the paranormal,
towards the paranormal, >> visit these two shops.
>> visit these two shops. >> Can't go wrong. Those two shops had
>> Can't go wrong. Those two shops had energy and there's a lot of urban
energy and there's a lot of urban legends associated with those two shops.
legends associated with those two shops. >> There there is
>> There there is >> they do things in the bookshop as well.
>> they do things in the bookshop as well. I think they do tarot reading and stuff
I think they do tarot reading and stuff like that. So it's also energies are
like that. So it's also energies are >> things are going on in that building.
>> things are going on in that building. It's not just books. There are stuff
It's not just books. There are stuff that's happening on spiritual level
that's happening on spiritual level tarot cards and all kinds of stuff.
tarot cards and all kinds of stuff. Anyway, I mean it's everyone's uh niche
Anyway, I mean it's everyone's uh niche needs that they they need
needs that they they need >> and more people now more young people
>> and more people now more young people are getting involved in spirituality and
are getting involved in spirituality and tarot. There's a huge up spike.
tarot. There's a huge up spike. >> Yeah. Do do you sense that in the UK as
>> Yeah. Do do you sense that in the UK as well? Absolutely.
well? Absolutely. >> What people mostly ask us is um is
>> What people mostly ask us is um is basically
basically >> what sort of phenomena is there that I
>> what sort of phenomena is there that I should be looking for. Um
should be looking for. Um >> is basically you know orbs are believed
>> is basically you know orbs are believed to be the most man the beginning sign of
to be the most man the beginning sign of a manifestation. So it shows itself in
a manifestation. So it shows itself in light form. That's what an orb is. 95%
light form. That's what an orb is. 95% of the times it's dust or insect. But
of the times it's dust or insect. But there's that 5% that could be genuine uh
there's that 5% that could be genuine uh like a ball of light.
like a ball of light. >> A ball of light caught on film or
>> A ball of light caught on film or cameras. It depends on the camera you're
cameras. It depends on the camera you're using. if you are using a flash, etc.
using. if you are using a flash, etc. But again, we're just using subjects
But again, we're just using subjects that are known to be uh attributed to
that are known to be uh attributed to the paranormal, which is orbs, um stuff
the paranormal, which is orbs, um stuff like poltergeist activity. You're
like poltergeist activity. You're looking for uh you know, light
looking for uh you know, light anomalies, um smell, touch. We actually
anomalies, um smell, touch. We actually have used the AP method, which is audio,
have used the AP method, which is audio, visual, physical,
visual, physical, >> physical.
>> physical. >> That's our ethos. Basically, you need to
>> That's our ethos. Basically, you need to have your your audio. So, make sure
have your your audio. So, make sure you're recording anything, your visual,
you're recording anything, your visual, making sure you've got the recording
making sure you've got the recording equipment and your physical because as H
equipment and your physical because as H says, it's this is the original tool
says, it's this is the original tool ghost hunting is your physical being,
ghost hunting is your physical being, you know, using your service.
you know, using your service. >> Yeah. Your body is the best paranormal
>> Yeah. Your body is the best paranormal tool you'll ever own and possess because
tool you'll ever own and possess because it really is the one with all the
>> everything, smell, it's got everything. So, you can, you know, um use your body
So, you can, you know, um use your body as as the um
as as the um >> the conduit.
>> the conduit. >> Yeah. basically.
>> Yeah. basically. >> But I guess I think as well, you know,
>> But I guess I think as well, you know, there's Yeah. Like, you know, there's
there's Yeah. Like, you know, there's cold spots and so there's there's just
cold spots and so there's there's just different things that are are attributed
different things that are are attributed to to the paranormal and and you know,
to to the paranormal and and you know, what we generally deal with.
what we generally deal with. >> Gotcha. I have one last question for
>> Gotcha. I have one last question for you. Go ahead.
you. Go ahead. >> Go ahead. Um,
>> Go ahead. Um, again, 30 years of work.
again, 30 years of work. >> So, there's an understanding of the
>> So, there's an understanding of the paranormal world that you guys have more
paranormal world that you guys have more than the average paranormal enthusiast.
than the average paranormal enthusiast. >> Yeah. Uh are there horror movies that
>> Yeah. Uh are there horror movies that you'd like to recommend which take the
you'd like to recommend which take the understanding of the paranormal in the
understanding of the paranormal in the right direction? the entity. That was
right direction? the entity. That was one film that um I would recommend um
one film that um I would recommend um because you know it was very well played
because you know it was very well played out um in the sense that you know um
out um in the sense that you know um yeah I'm sure there are elements where
yeah I'm sure there are elements where it has to be hyped up a bit but the
it has to be hyped up a bit but the actual case study the story behind it
actual case study the story behind it was very genuine very real and very
was very genuine very real and very traumatic for the for the woman that
traumatic for the for the woman that actually went through that um case you
actually went through that um case you know so that would probably be my um
know so that would probably be my um sort of go-to kind of horror paranormal
sort of go-to kind of horror paranormal film. Um avoid things like sadly
film. Um avoid things like sadly uh yeah I mean things like you know
uh yeah I mean things like you know Apollo guys and those kind of movies. Um
Apollo guys and those kind of movies. Um yeah, sadly um
>> certain films there are films that I would say that have recently been made
would say that have recently been made uh that have um actually destroyed the
uh that have um actually destroyed the the the genuine um if they were made in
the the genuine um if they were made in a different light with a more believable
a different light with a more believable thing rather than trying to do the scare
thing rather than trying to do the scare factor thing. Um, you know, my type of
factor thing. Um, you know, my type of paranormal film or horror paranormal is
paranormal film or horror paranormal is something that is true and genuine and
something that is true and genuine and try and avoid the, you know, big hyped
try and avoid the, you know, big hyped up Hollywood sort of, you know,
up Hollywood sort of, you know, >> jump scare films.
>> jump scare films. >> Jump scare films. Yeah. Because that it
>> Jump scare films. Yeah. Because that it just don't happen. It does not happen. M
just don't happen. It does not happen. M >> if you're going to look for something,
>> if you're going to look for something, look for something that's based on a
look for something that's based on a true story, but that's directed in such
true story, but that's directed in such a fashion that it's it tells the truth
a fashion that it's it tells the truth and and doesn't, you know, try to, you
and and doesn't, you know, try to, you know, Yeah. just draw you in for
know, Yeah. just draw you in for >> the money.
>> the money. >> Yeah. For the money.
>> Yeah. For the money. >> I guess as well that I mean the
>> I guess as well that I mean the conjuring too that showcases the Enfield
conjuring too that showcases the Enfield poltergeist. So it gives you an insight
poltergeist. So it gives you an insight as to you know the work Morris did but
as to you know the work Morris did but actually shows it from the viewpoint of
actually shows it from the viewpoint of Ed and Lorraine Warren who are only
Ed and Lorraine Warren who are only there for like a day or two where Morris
there for like a day or two where Morris Gross was there for 2 years. So I guess
Gross was there for 2 years. So I guess it's they show it from that demographic
it's they show it from that demographic but it gives you a good insight as to
but it gives you a good insight as to the sort of stuff that was going on in
the sort of stuff that was going on in the building and the house. So if there
the building and the house. So if there was one I would say it's obviously one
was one I would say it's obviously one we've obviously dealt with and um had a
we've obviously dealt with and um had a relationship with was obviously Morris
relationship with was obviously Morris Gross would be the the conjuring too.
Gross would be the the conjuring too. Um, and the Ed Lorraine Warren, they're
Um, and the Ed Lorraine Warren, they're actually genuine cases. They're actually
actually genuine cases. They're actually built on cases that actually happened
built on cases that actually happened and were documented rather than just
and were documented rather than just being a director's fragment of the
being a director's fragment of the director's, you know, imagination.
director's, you know, imagination. >> Elaborated on as well, obviously. Um, of
>> Elaborated on as well, obviously. Um, of course, it's Hollywood, but
course, it's Hollywood, but >> it just still it's based in London and
>> it just still it's based in London and it shows you well, you know, an insight
it shows you well, you know, an insight into that case.
into that case. >> Oh, sure.
>> Oh, sure. >> You you want to add anything?
>> You you want to add anything? >> Yeah, just just don't be fooled by by,
>> Yeah, just just don't be fooled by by, you know, ghosts and flashing lights.
you know, ghosts and flashing lights. And I think like uh to make it you know
And I think like uh to make it you know to to clarify for your viewers I guess
to to clarify for your viewers I guess that after 30 years of nearly research
that after 30 years of nearly research and spectrum paranormal investigations
and spectrum paranormal investigations being formed I think we've now you know
being formed I think we've now you know even for me I think I can determine that
even for me I think I can determine that it's not if there are ghosts it's what
it's not if there are ghosts it's what what are they what are they is it is it
what are they what are they is it is it the deceased walking around aimlessly on
the deceased walking around aimlessly on an earth plane and they don't know where
an earth plane and they don't know where they are is it more of an energy
they are is it more of an energy substance where they've you know your
substance where they've you know your life force is is extinct but your
life force is is extinct but your energy's gone into space and you'll just
energy's gone into space and you'll just people can pick up on that. We really
people can pick up on that. We really don't know, but I guess we've
don't know, but I guess we've experienced enough evidence to say
experienced enough evidence to say there's definitely something going on
there's definitely something going on and we ain't going to stop until we
and we ain't going to stop until we found out what the answer is.
found out what the answer is. >> If we get there, you got a life force.
>> If we get there, you got a life force. You got a life force. I've got a life
You got a life force. I've got a life force.
force. >> We may on the other side. Who [laughter]
>> We may on the other side. Who [laughter] knows?
knows? >> I will. Podcast for the ghost world.
>> I will. Podcast for the ghost world. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly. >> Ghost cast. [laughter]
>> Ghost cast. [laughter] >> Dean Hazel, thank you so much.
>> Dean Hazel, thank you so much. >> Thank you so much so much. Thank you for
>> Thank you so much so much. Thank you for having us.
having us. >> I I hope you guys had fun.
>> I I hope you guys had fun. >> Oh, we really did. Thank you for the
>> Oh, we really did. Thank you for the opportunity.
opportunity. >> Thank you for honestly. It's been a
>> Thank you for honestly. It's been a great experience being able to, you
great experience being able to, you know, do your trip.
know, do your trip. >> Yeah. Yeah. Basically, yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Basically, yeah. >> Giving us the platform to do that.
>> Giving us the platform to do that. >> Honestly, it's like, you know, the honor
>> Honestly, it's like, you know, the honor of my life that I get to meet people
of my life that I get to meet people like yourselves who've dedicated your
like yourselves who've dedicated your existence to a single subject over the
existence to a single subject over the course of 25, 30 years. That's crazy to
course of 25, 30 years. That's crazy to me. M
me. M >> so this whole episode is just a way to
>> so this whole episode is just a way to pay respect to the depth of the
pay respect to the depth of the experiences.
experiences. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> So
>> So >> thank you so much.
>> thank you so much. >> Thank you for being on the show.
>> Thank you for being on the show. >> Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you.
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