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Live Lecture #2 - Mind Body Debate

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welcome to everyone that's watching this

later we have quite a few

people logged on live and more and more

are joining uh that makes me so happy

uh you guys are wonderful i was telling

everyone that on live

uh that i really feel so lucky this

semester that i have so many wonderful

students people that are just good people

people

kind and intelligent and responsible and

so thank you for being here

this course is a little bit slow to get

started um

i think online it feels a little bit

slower than in person because really for

these first couple weeks

um we're just kind of getting people

thinking i'm asking big questions

because i i just kind of i want y'all to

almost in a way doubt everything

question everything about existence

about being a human being

so that we can analyze everything from

the start and y'all can come to some

solid conclusions as to what you believe

and what you understand

in regards to all of this um i always

think about

um gosh

well it's hard to say this without going

into a whole life span lecture but

a lot of times we just believe things

because people have told us

them you know whether it's our family

members our parents

grandparents our teachers um

different our bosses our friends

whatever tv

movies uh the news whatever it is we

just believe it because we've been told

this or we read it somewhere and so somehow

somehow

it's part of our belief system and our

reservoir of knowledge

um but i what i think is important is

for us to make this shift

where we stop just blindly believing in things

things

and instead we move towards critical

thinking and analysis

and we come up with our own reasons for

believing and so how i think about it is

say your parents tell you to believe in something

something

and that can be wonderful to honor them

and respect them by believing what they believe

believe

in but if you just take it up without

analyzing it yourself

then i almost think of it like a flower

or a plant without any roots

and storms are going to try to blow you

away in life people with different opinions

opinions

uh people with just different forces are

gonna try to influence you

and if you don't have those roots you're

gonna get totally destroyed in the winds

of life so to say

and so what i always want is for people

to grow those roots themselves

so that no matter how hard life gets how

complex life gets

you know what you believe and why you

believe it and your beliefs

are grounded in logic and in fact and in

all kinds of things that are meaningful

to you

that you understand and if you have

those roots too

then you can go almost explore the winds

so to say you can go have conversations

that are maybe uh passionate and with

people that have differing opinions and

you can show respect to them and they

can respect you and you have the flexibility

flexibility

to kind of have those conversations but

not to get uprooted by them or not to

feel threatened by them

and so i just i want you all to grow

those roots for yourself

and you know if there's any parents out

there listening to this they're like well

well

what are you telling them you know this

is kind of like social psychology

because i kind of stopped saying

stop listening to authority figures um

but the point is

that in the end you all kind of become

independent critical thinkers yourself

and it would be wonderful if you end up believing

believing

the same thing that you know your

parents believe or or people that you

love and respect

believe it it may be the case because

you love and respect them for a reason

um and so but then you would believe it

but you would also have roots

and it will ground you for the rest of

your life so really in the beginning of

gen psych i try to kind of throw

everyone into kind of an existential crisis

crisis

and i don't think we started quite doing

that last time

did i ask you all the question if there

was a pill that could make you happy all

the time would you take it

i know i asked it in a discussion board

format but did i ask you all in a live

my ipad's doing the bad thing y'all it's

in the

it's in this attempting data recovery

loop i read about it online sorry i'm so

distracted my ipad is

majorly malfunctioning and i have a

class right after this

okay uh y'all don't think so okay so for

those of y'all online now because you

know part of this is a participation opportunity

opportunity

let me ask you guys a question if there

is a pill that you could that could make

you happy

all the time would you take it

hello hey pedro hi hey yeah

yeah i've had my my hand raised but um

so i i probably wouldn't though i think

it's because like that will keep you

from uh

always being happy and kind of kind of i

think takes away a lot of the

worth of happiness itself so like you

have to experience all the other

emotional spectrum per se you know

that's just myself so i probably

wouldn't that's a wonderful answer

um excellent point does anybody else out

there agree what do you guys think

um hi hi lina hi

yeah elena um i don't think i would take

it because i don't it would keep me from

being genuinely happy

because being happy all the time is i

don't know weird

yeah yeah and so you know there's

i think that y'all are pointing to this

idea that um

we can't selectively numb emotions has

anybody seen

renee brown's uh ted talks or her

netflix special or any of her work

rene i have no idea who that is no well

she's awesome and she's really popular

right now so she actually has her phd in

social work

but it really lines up with psychology

um you know like

therapists out there you may have a

licensed professional counselor you may

have a phd level psychologist

you may have a licensed uh psychological

associate or you may have a licensed

clinical social worker

so that last option renee brown's in

social work which you can't be a therapist

therapist

if that's your your pathway um and she

has she's become really popular she's at

the university of houston but popular to

the point that she has a netflix special and

and

oprah meets with her and stuff like that

and she talks a lot about how we can't

selectively numb emotions that they're

all important and if you try to numb one

you numb them all and so there's this

idea that if we try

to numb the bad emotions whether it's

anger or sadness

that in the end we're not going to

actually be able to feel happy at all

happiness would cease to exist

that they're kind of two sides of the

same coin one is what it is in light of

the other

you have to know uh sadness in order to

really know and appreciate and value happiness

happiness

um and so this is all super complex but

i think you guys

get it i think y'all are there uh with

me i'll be saying i agree because you

need to feel negative emotions to appreciate

appreciate

to be happy carly's saying i wouldn't

take the pill i've been through many

good and bad times

the bad definitely shows how great the

good times can be and makes you

appreciate them more

being happy all the time is also just

not realistic happy is not always

appropriate motion for some situations

that totally makes sense

so i hear a bunch of things in that

response and let me write down

pedro and lena y'all spoken through audio

audio

i have something to touch on with that

oh yeah who is that

it's caitlin hi caitlin hi so i feel

like i wouldn't because i feel like

emotions are really what shaped

the person and who they are so i feel

like if you're happy all the time you

don't have that time to feel sad or

angry or disappointed so that

won't really form the what could be bad

in your life

it kind of just buzzes it all out yeah

it kind of oh gosh i don't know a word

for it but it would kind of turn us into

i don't know zombies and robots i feel

like you have to have emotion of

other emotions other than happiness to

actually be a person

yeah yeah that's an excellent point and

to form you yeah

i i think i saw that your hand was

raised yeah i agree with

uh what caitlyn said and i also think

that emotions help with like personal growth

growth

so if you're feeling happy all the time

you're really not doing any growing

yes and i heard this and some of the

other thank you because i was trying to

get us back towards that

and i hear this in each of y'all's

responses personal

these emotions especially the hard

emotions are necessary for personal growth

growth

you know i think i probably i don't know

maybe i've already talked about how

we've got to become okay with failure

the most successful people and the

people that live i think

uh the healthiest happiest most

productive lives are the people that are

okay with failure and okay with being uncomfortable

uncomfortable

um they know how to work through it and

to use it

as something positive um and so you know

the if we fail we just get up and try

even harder like

this is fun kind of thing let's keep

trying okay so

uh jared i saw that your hand was raised

yeah um

yeah i have a question so do you mean

like we take the pill once

and we feel happy the rest of the time

or do we like take it like

over over like a

a sequential amount of time yeah so it's

almost like doses like so it'll wear off

kind of thing

well i don't know do you all think it

well i mean if if you're not if it's like

if it has to be taken sequentially

in that case i wouldn't take it because eventually

eventually

it would stop working because your body

would be getting used to it and

therefore you would

you would be getting addicted to it so

you would be struggling to get that high again

again

and then you would eventually get to the

point where it starts killing you

and so the question becomes is this a

drive is

is this happiness pill that we're

talking about are we talking about ecstasy

ecstasy

you know it's kind of in the definition

of the term uh bliss

absolute happiness kind of thing and so

i you know i like these questions that

you're asking jerry because those are

the exact kind of questions that i sit

and i talk to my friends about

we're like okay let's change the

situation with just this little thing

and then how do our answers change but

through kind of asking these different details

details

we get more clarification as to i think

what we believe

um and you know there's these concerns

for consequences

um there's these concerns that do we

already have this out in our world

um if it is something that can wear off

would more people be likely to take it

like it's not something that you take

and it's

forever you're always happy instead you

know for

maybe a week you're happy with some more

people take it then

if then the next week you can decide not

jared did you have anything else or

sophia i see your hand is raised

oh yeah i was gonna say um

i wouldn't take the pill because this

kind of goes with um

like personal growth i just feel like if

we were happy all the time

that we wouldn't learn through those experiences

experiences

even though like it hurts like pain i

feel like

if we were happy all the time we

wouldn't learn because those are

some big emotions that like get you

um learning like yes

like even through defeat and yes um

failure and stuff like that

i absolutely agree and i think that you

know a bunch of the class does agree so

well said let me look at some of these

comments that y'all have put down here um

i like how you denoted the importance of

even anger and

self for self-preservation y'all all

emotions have a purpose

and we've got to remember that for some

reason in our society we're so

afraid of anger and we're so afraid of sadness

sadness

and we do anything we can to avoid it

maybe our happy pill

is the tv maybe it's video games oh my

gosh i just got

my family got out mario kart this past

weekend and at first i thought this is

going to be boring

like i'm not going to want to play y'all

all i want to do is play mario kart i swear

swear

so you know maybe we lose ourselves in

these things that make us happy

um and because we want to avoid the

sadness or we want to avoid the stress

we want to avoid the anger

maybe your happy pill is food maybe it's

alcohol maybe it's some of these

hardcore drugs whether it's

to see maybe it's marijuana which isn't

as hardcore of a drug but as a drug

you know different people numb through

different ways

and when we numb it it does have

consequences these emotions are

valuable you know like what would be the

purpose of anger what do you all think

hello hello hi yeah i probably would say

like especially to

to uh like to like defend yourself

against uh

i guess any kind of any kind of damage

to really you know rather emotional or

or physical i absolutely love what you

were talking about avoidance of emotions

i think that's what

cascades every a lot of uh

the majority of societies and

psychological problems you know you know

you know them when they're small when

you could have dealt with them but you

let them bottle up and make sure they

become bigger than you

and that's when yes that emotional

crisis that you mentioned

i love it i i think i probably go

through like at least double digit

amount of emotional crisis a year

and uh and i actually like it because

i'm just learning more and more

reassessing myself as it goes

you know i want to yeah i want to put i

i want to write that down here because i

think that's so cute you know crisis i

like that you just said i like it

you know and that's what i hope that we

get to a place in this class and i don't

know maybe i said this last time in lecture

lecture

y'all can remind me if i did but i want

to get to a place that even when our

life is

full of dysfunction full of

negative emotions uh full of stress that

we can

stop and we can think oh my gosh this is amazing

amazing

because i'm alive my life is rich

don't remember someone reminded me do i

talk about my friends i don't think so

you don't think so my friend over uh at

the last college i was at

uh his life was so empty when i first

met him he's a wonderful person

and but i would worry about him because

he didn't have

a family he didn't have he just didn't

have much connection he was very much alone

alone

um and it was just deeply

uh sad it was sad for me to see it was

sad for him to experience

um and later he ended up meeting a woman

and he got married quickly and she

already had a son

and so then he had this family almost

like an instant family right

um and he started coming to work and

then he would be complaining

he's like oh this happened and then this

person said this

and then this and i would always stop

him and i would always say oh my gosh

like how cool is this can we just stop

and think about

a year ago your life was so empty and

now it's so rich

you have people that you love and people

that love you and because of

all of that yeah there's stress and yeah

sometimes there's conflict

sometimes there's anger sometimes

there's sadness sometimes there's frustration

frustration

but your life is rich i picture this

painting of all this color

and it's dynamic and so whenever my life

is like

going wrong i just stop and i almost try

to find appreciation in it

like i'm happy to be alive and i know

that you know i have to take

all the bad stuff all the low points all

the hard emotions all the stress

in order to have all the high points all

the wonderful things all the love

all the purpose all the meaning all of

that and so

i hope we get to a point that when

things are really bad we can appreciate

it i know it sounds weird

but we can appreciate him you say oh my

gosh my life is rich and i'm alive

i may have already said i always think

about um riding a roller coaster with

my younger sister one of my younger

sisters and we get on there and she was terrified

terrified

she wanted to ride the roller coaster

but it starts and she's just

freaking out um like just having a panic attack

attack

and i notice and i'm like oh well how

can i fix this

so i just start yelling i'm alive i'm living

living

i'm alive and she just starts dying

laughing because everyone can hear me

but you know that kind of rush that kind

of feeling like

i feel scared right now but that means

that i'm alive and that's exciting and

that can be wonderful

um i still see some hands raised did

y'all want to say something or were they

left over from before

yeah i was gonna oh sorry i am first and

then jared yes

okay i was gonna say that like anger is

important because

whenever you're experiencing like

physical and emotional distress

anger motivates you to do something

about it and it helps with like

discharging the tension in your body and

calming your nerves

yes wonderful excellent point and it

makes me think gosh

i don't remember that details of this i

went to a conference and this lady was

doing research on marijuana usage

and how it impacts uh the body

physically in the brain they were doing

brain scans all kinds of

a physiological tests and i remember

them saying something about

after chronic marijuana use they would

put people in stressful situations or

situations that should kind of make them

angry and they wouldn't get stressed

they wouldn't

get angry they would need more

in order to feel that feeling that

people that aren't using marijuana chronically

chronically

you know would feel but i feel like

maybe and i'm kind of jumping some

making some connections on my own here

you know so maybe i'm getting a little

far from the research

but i hear a lot of people and i have a

lot of students who uh

use marijuana and i see that their

motivation levels drop

and so i wonder if that has to do with

it they're not feeling enough anger

they're not feeling

enough stress they're not feeling right

they're too calm

and so if you're so calm if you're so

chill why do anything kind of thing

so it's kind of like a happy pill in a

way it really yeah

you know and i almost see this question

as more similar to the drugs out there

than it's similar to like

antidepressants we haven't brought that

up yet

um but i do i i see an antidepressant as

something slightly different but there

is that whole

kind of question here um jared you were

going to say something

well going back to the whole like life

is rich kind of thing

yeah i was going to say that uh

sometimes that in itself can be a struggle

struggle

because when you have everything you've

ever because once you've gotten

everything you've

ever wanted you're not really sure where

to go next and eventually

you can't you can't exactly figure out

and eventually it starts to take its

toll on your mentality yes and you start

to get so bored with life that you don't

want to live in it anymore

yeah this idea of how do you spell

boredom i think like that

that looks weird but you know there's so

many things that you're mentioning here

one i think about

overall maybe you know studying the

psychology of happiness and there is a

happiness documentary

psychology of happiness um and i'm going

to create an extra credit assignment for

you guys that you can watch this uh documentary

documentary

that's just called happiness and they

point out in there and in a lot of the

happiness literature

um that people who have everything

it's almost like they experience level

lower levels of happiness and overall

life satisfaction

it's the people who have struggle it's

the people in these

countries that there's not a lot of

money and there's not a lot of

you know uh the acquisition of

items or you know whatever we want to

call it those are the people that are

happier um whereas in our country

where everything's all about money and

all about acquiring all these goods and

you know start reaching certain levels

of success by reaching certain financial statuses

statuses

uh you know our levels of happiness

aren't there and so there's something

about i don't know human connection

simplicity and struggle working for

something makes it more meaningful

and i think we've experienced that in

our lives if you work for something

it means something to you if something's

just handed to you it's like

this isn't this isn't cool jared were

you gonna say something

i mean uh well

i think it has more to do with like all

of us using up our dopamine so much

okay meanwhile the people in the third

world countries they don't really

have much to use their dopamine on so

when they accomplish something

they get the dopamine a dopamine rash yeah

yeah

and so that's why everybody's depressed

so that's something to continue i love

that you're bringing this up continue to

think about this as we move into

the biopsychology chapter um we'll talk

about this these

different kinds of things dopamine

people are obsessed with dopamine

because that's the pleasure

uh hormone or neurotransmitter it makes you

you

feel just awesome and so we do different

things and we release dopamine

um you know like wellbutrin if anyone's

taking the antidepressant wellbutrin

that's the one that messes with dopamine

i've been hearing a lot of good reviews

that people love wellbutrin

and it makes sense because it feels wonderful

wonderful

uh to feel more dopamine um and so yeah

in these different countries maybe

different things are impacting

the release of dopamine um and all of that

that

um something gosh what i was gonna go

back to i have a friend and maybe i

already mentioned this last time i have

so many gen site classes right now y'all

i'm sorry it's hard for me to remember

what i say in each class

um and i i'm so blown away by you guys

this is one of the most

active uh meaningful discussions i've

had with an online class so bravo to you

guys y'all y'all rock

um but i think about and i don't know

maybe i mentioned it my friend that's an

ob gyn did i discuss that last time

she's a doctor and she's just making

i don't think so i'm not no you didn't

okay good i need to stop questioning myself

myself

um so uh she became an ob gyn um

she uh started off with 250

000 as her starting salary which is a

crazy starting salary

yeah i know right and after two years

of working as you know a full doctor uh

she's now gotten offered a position

as a partner at this other uh group

um and joining as a partner will double

her salary so she'll be up to

500 000 a year um and one of the other

partners said well if you really want to

work hard i mean i did last year and i

made 750 000

a year her husband is a pharmacist his

his salary i think is around 150 000 a year

year

yeah i'm talking about really large

numbers for a household if she's making

between 500 and 750

000 and he's making 150 part of this is

for me to tell you guys

there is money in medicine and in uh

pharmacy you know those kind of fields

so if you're interested in in those

go for it there's also concerns about

taxes and then she does

have still i think 200 000 of student

loans from med school

and she's already paid 150 000 of just

interest so there's all kinds of other

things going on but the reason why i

mention all this other than inform you

guys about these kind of fields and

you know how people are doing in them um

she has her dream job she's accomplished

everything she wants to she has

more money than she can spend um well

she needs to pay off the debt but

she can pay it off if she wants to um

she has

two beautiful children she has a

wonderful husband she built her dream house

house

she has multiple cars that she loves she

has everything

she's not happy you know she's my best

friend and she'll call me all the time

she's struggling she's really struggling

and so there's more to life than just

this amount of money that you make

or you know different kinds of things

and so what i end up

asking here is what's the point of life

why do we do anything

why do what is the point behind human behavior

behavior

you sound like freud a little bit freud

who is that

sigmund freud we'll talk about him later

on because that lines up with he says

that there's these two drives

basically you know i see the universe

over williams saying the universe uh

in the universe and one is the life

drive and they've been it's been

popularized as a life drive

it's eros it's love the other one is the

death drive oh

gosh i always get confused if it's

thanatos or thantos one is the villain from

from

avengers right or not not avengers one

of the superhero shows

i think it's thanatos uh is the death drive

drive

and so what you're you're siding with

here i think it was jared

is is the life drive anything that's for

like uh reproduction

um anything that's pro-social that

that's what is

driving all activity um and it could be

love it could be human connection

um but underneath it all for freud is survival

survival

and it's survival of the individual

through like you're saying sustenance

you know eating

and survival of the human race through

reproduction so you're actually 100

lined up with some heavy philosophy uh

that that freud

uh kind of spouted um it's a wonderful

job uh pedro i see that your hand is raised

raised

oh okay yes hang on yeah all right so

you say like like like what's the point

of life i mean like i guess that that

goes that goes in the same uh train i

thought that you were talking about

each other's perspective but uh i mean

for me it would be more

interesting that you were talking about

the different facets of people

finding happiness yeah like uh you know

so for me it would be like

material means slash money family or

human connection relationships and

success is slash

self-realization like those when i when

i'm lacking on one of those i can start

feeling you know not myself that's so

cool you're pointing out how

like we are multi-dimensional life is

multi-dimensional and you just listed

so many things that are important to you

um and you know maybe

what i wonder is if there's a hierarchy

if there's one thing that's more

important than all the rest

absolutely i guess you're talking a

little bit about mass lows

yeah yeah a little bit but yeah for sure

i mean

you have to have to take care of your

basic basic needs

initially in order to have the physical

drive to take care of the rest right yeah

yeah

right yeah excellent um and i'm gonna go

over here on the chat we're saying you

know william was saying we are the

universe experience it itself

well that is like a really nice quote

william i

want to post that in our class really uh

wonderfully said

and i want you to think about that when

we get into our mind body debate which i

want to get to today

um to talk about the mind and the body

so the mind and the brain what are they

and then how do they relate and we have

one discussion board on that but i think

that y'all can kind of a little bit more

quiet on the discussion boards

um anybody else on what is the point of

life what drives all human behavior why

do anything

we had for survival reproduction

we have just to experience so we had

survival um

experience i don't think i've actually

understood the point of life

yet for some reason

you know that is totally normal i i

don't know that we ever fully grasp it

and and i know that these are kind of

crazy questions but i think they are

actually the questions that the main

questions that we should be wrestling

with our whole life

and i think that for some people you

know i had some people in person they're

like you're making us all feel so much anxiety

anxiety

but i think that because of that anxiety

we avoid confronting these questions

that are so

core to life um you know another

the end point of all life is death we

are all constantly dying and i know that

makes us feel

you know deeply anxious and

uncomfortable but

avoiding it doesn't make it not true you know

know

it's still happening we're still headed

towards that so we need to be aware of it

we need to be aware life is temporary

and we need to think why

what's the point of it all why am i

doing any of this and i think it's kind

of this constant pursuit we're trying to

figure out

so lena i totally understand where

you're at and it reminds me of an old

class i had a student who would make

note cards

um and she showed me your note cards for

studying for the exam and i got to one

of them

and it said what is life and it just i

died laughing because i'm like oh my

gosh this is like

what she's studying for our exam like

that is such a huge question what is life

life

and i was fascinated to turn it over and

see how she was going to sum it up on

the back of a note card

um so i want to get you all thinking

about i recognize that we don't have all

these answers

but i want to think what are some

answers survival experience

i'm going to go back and look at some of

these uh things that you all added in

here and i think they're a little bit

more correct

um yeah i think well one time i mean i

think we're always

questioning like what why are we here and

and

why are we at the top of the food chain and

and

i one time heard that there's like a

difference between

our function and our purpose and

sometimes your function could be like

your job but then your purpose

on this earth could be something

completely different and it and it

doesn't always have to be like

for like reproductive matters to

reproduce and populate i like it could be

to help others you know reproduce or it

could be

you know to give someone else's life

meaning and like show them that they

have value to themselves

oh that's what is your name because it's

just showing up as iphone

my name is bentley i wasn't here for the

first time last week but this is my

first time on

awesome well welcome nice to meet you

nice to meet you too

that was a really cool like just

philosophy there so thank you for

sharing y'all i love this because i

think some of these things will

stick with us and make different people

think in different kind of ways and it

can impact our life

to think you know how you put it

function versus purpose

um and that you know all of us may have

different purposes and

sometimes you're you're in line with

that life drive thing that jared was

talking about but you're looking at a

different way maybe it's not reproduction

reproduction

maybe it's to help somebody else you

know and you get to a point in life if

you look at lifespan development that

erickson talks about generativity versus stagnation

stagnation

it's the stage of life that you're

supposed to be focusing on the

generation coming behind you

and what's going to be left after you're

gone you know what is this kind of

impact you're leaving in this world and

that's what i hear in in your description

description

is what is that impact you know what

what's the point of life the impact that

we have

um and it should be a positive kind of impact

impact

it may not be reproduction itself but it

may be helping somebody else in some

other way something positive

something forward moving in terms of

positivity um

i think that's really cool um let me

look at some of these other things that

we had here

alyssa was saying back to the pill um

well judith was saying

that if it's a temporary thing uh you

would take it

i want to talk about that and then i

want to remember to loop back around to

what we were saying a second ago

um i want to be you know normally when i

i take a poll of a class in person i say

how many people

would take the pill and maybe sometimes

i get one brave person that'll raise

their hand

and say okay i would take it and

everyone else falls

on this path of i wouldn't take it and i

do believe

in you know we shouldn't take it i think

that there's so much

uh value in these points that y'all are

making that i'm going to

further clarify um but if we're honest

if we're talking about real lived

experience and and

you know judith is saying if it's

temporary yeah then you know sometimes

life is really hard

sometimes you're struggling to get out

of bed or sometimes you lose somebody

so important so loved and you feel like

you can't even function

or sometimes the world is just being

incredibly rude and mean to you and it

feels like you can't escape

or sometimes you feel so much anger that

your blood is boiling

and you don't know what to do and you

just can't sit in that discomfort anymore

anymore

it's not something that's helping you

it's something that's destroying you

and so maybe we need that break and so

what it points out

is the context of the situation if we're

in a really bad situation and we're not

surviving through it someone in person

said some of us don't have

supportive families and some of us

because of that maybe don't have these

different psychological

tools that no one ever taught us to be

strong and to

think in these kind of different ways to

be resilient and so we need something

else to rely on in those moments and you

know if they were just being honest and

saying they would take the pill

when they can't handle life and i think that

that

a lot of us would do that life is really

hard um

and when it comes to actually living it

maybe more of us would take the pill

than than we're saying but that doesn't

take away from all the value and meaning

in this argument to not take the pill um

okay if we look at what carly had said

um i think that i had read that one

let's go down to alyssa

i would not take the pill because true

happiness would not be genuine in order

to appreciate the feeling you have to

experience other emotions if i only felt

happiness i would not appreciate it i

feel like every emotion whether it's

good or bad is

very important to learn and to grow in

life so personal growth is important

there's also this importance when it

comes to

empathy and human connection

okay i'm

oh that's a cool william was saying my

friend insists that any kind of current

artificial happiness seems to just steal

from future natural happiness

oh that's really interesting paige i'm

taking a sociology class and our first

chapter was all about a man

named durkheim and his look on suicide

he studied which groups of people have

committed it and he ended up finalizing

his research saying that married people

and men

are up there um i think this is because

they are already happy they have

what they want but now they have nowhere

else to go and nothing else to strive for

for

thank you for saying that because that's

the thing about my friend is you know

she called me she's like

i i feel lost and i feel like i'm losing myself

myself

and i'm like well you have so much but

what are you working towards

what is the purpose of what you're doing

right what are you striving towards

and she said i don't know i don't know

where to go nets i i don't know what my

goals are

and it points out that it's not about it

sounds cliche but it's not about getting

the goal

it's not about having the stuff it's not

about reaching

all these like the finish line kind of

thing it's about the

run the chase the fight the struggle

that's what's enjoyable and so the

people that already have it's

you don't get happiness by reaching the

things you find happiness

through trying to reach for them if that

makes any sense

uh and i think that we need to be happy

kind of in the present moment

and this ties into mindfulness and

meditation and all of that which

psychology is trying to use

uh to help people be more

psychologically healthy in a completely

non-religious type way i know meditation has

has

religious connotations but really it

doesn't have to be uh religious in

in in any way you know but what you're

saying paige is so important

the striving is what's meaningful the

striving is what's

enjoyable and i'm going to talk about it

later on in the semester

lots of people think the point of life

has become rich and successful but

whenever i talk about it with others i say

say

it's love and fulfillment i've lost

people in my life

um and i've experienced grief to the

point that it feels like it's just

i mean just like ripping me to shreds

and in those moments things become

really clear

and i remember thinking nothing is real

but love nothing

is real but love over there was a song

that i would listen to over and over

again that was

basically that lyric over and over again um

i think that in certain moments things

become clear to us but life is really tricky

tricky

and we start thinking that things matter

that don't actually matter

a lot of us care what other people think

it's one of my lifelong struggles i care

what other people think

um and it's hard to get over some of us

care about

the amount of money that we make or the

amount of prestige that we get or the

amount of success

you know life is really tricky and we

start getting competitive with these

kind of things

when what really matters is possibly just

just

love and connection and so that's what

where we get to okay what's the point of

life kind of thing

um okay i'm going to look at let's see

paige i think so many people just want

to live they want to live their life to

the fullest and that includes things

like taking risks

going on adventures i know people that

travel so much and believe they have

lived just when they lived to their

fullest potential so to experience to

live it's kind of the point of life

uh okay off topic question in a second

i'll i'll ask those

um i read i read something that says poorer

poorer

not as successful people can often be

happier because they learn to appreciate

what they have instead of constantly

yearning for more for love i wouldn't

say money

uh can buy happiness but money can

definitely make life easier which can

lead to happiness so if you study the

psychology of happiness

a certain um a

certain level of money kind of does by

happiness in a way

if you don't have enough money to get

food and have a house

and to meet your basic needs if you

don't have enough money for that

you're going to struggle with happiness

once you have enough money

to meet those basic needs then

you're good and past that point

happiness money doesn't buy happiness it

doesn't increase happiness if anything i

argue that it actually decreases it and

makes the pursuit of happiness

more difficult um and so the question

becomes where's that line of

where what do you need to meet your

basic needs um

and that's all in that happiness

documentary so if we go to what i put

about well we're talking about the pill

um we need these negative emotions for

personal growth

the emotions make us who we are um you

know all

uh emotions have a purpose anger is

important even

our society's terrified of it but it's

important i think about

empathy and human connection i think

about if i was on a happiness pill and

one of my students came to me

and they were crying because their dad

just passed away and i was just

smiling and not able to go there with them

them

i think that that pill destroys empathy empathy

empathy

is feeling with that's the definition of it

i don't think you would be able to truly

feel with somebody

and if they're sitting and they're

coming to me in these

vulnerable horrible sad moments and i'm

just kind of smiling and not able to connect

connect

i don't think we're able to connect as

human beings if we're all kind of

robot zombie happy people um and

i think that some people believe the

whole point of life is human connection

empathy and love so that would be uh

possibly a catastrophic consequence of

that pill

um another thing i think about you know

to just uh uh

further uh uh expand upon the idea

that emotions are what they are in light

i think about the times that i've lost

people in my life

and the immense pain that i've felt the

unbearable sadness and

i think what if i got that news and

i think that it makes it clear that this

happy pill

again destroys love you know i hold on to

my grief in a way to my pain in a way

because it is a reflection of the love

the connection that i had with these

people and i never want to forget that

um and we'll talk about that later on in

the semester i know people have

different experiences of grief and

different ways of understanding

the grief process but to me i think it's

important that we're able to feel

these kind of dark emotions because it

allows for

uh it's the reflection of the positive

emotions the meaningful the

these wonderful emotions and i think

that we we've covered that

in a wonderful way so to the point of

life some people said survival some

people said experience some people said

function versus purpose

sometimes i hear like i said above its connection

connection

so uh freud would say and normally i get

this more than y'all have

uh have kind of spoken to

but that's kind of neat that y'all

haven't said this freud does say

survival but he also says

the main point of all life all human

activity is pleasure he talks about us

like we're ultimately selfish

we do things just because it makes us

feel good

um and we'll talk about that later in

the semester erickson who's a

developmental psychologist

says the point of all of life and

behavior is connection

affiliation uh you know connection and

bonding with others

um let's see uh someone i mentioned

maslow um

he says it's um basically

uh huma uh self-actualization

reaching these highest levels of human beingness

beingness

being the best person you can possibly be

this would be maslow and rogers

so i just want you guys to think what

you all think and and you know maybe

i don't know if we'll have an assignment

that you can put these thoughts into

maybe a discussion board in here of course

course

you'll have in this conversation but i

think it's just important for life

i think that there's a danger in

thinking that pleasure

is the purpose of life and

maybe you all don't agree i totally

respect it if you all don't agree i just

get concerned if somebody thinks the

point of all human activity is pleasure

i understand

the thought and maybe it is true maybe

we are kind of ultimately selfish

but if the point of everything is for

you to feel pleasure and for you to be happy

happy

then shouldn't we all just be doing hard drugs

drugs

i know that sounds super controversial

but then we would just

feel pleasure all the time we would just

be addicts

and so i think that if anyone has this

idea that the point of life is to feel

pleasure you've got to watch yourself

because you may

find that you're driven to addiction to

certain things that provide

pleasure and happiness or as jared had

said a dopamine hit

you may be driven to just play video

games or just watch tv um

or just do whatever brings you pleasure

eat or drink

or do drugs or smoke marijuana or you

know whatever it is

um that whatever brings you pleasure you

may have a tendency

towards addiction so i just kind of tell

people watch for that and think about

maybe we need maybe there's more maybe

we need to find com

being find comfort in the discomfort in

the discomforting emotions and those

kind of things that

that there's richness and meaning to it

all okay another question and then i've

got to

what time did this start 12 30. i've got

to move on to the next thing

real quick we won't discuss this one as

much in detail

um and i'm going to pause the recording

for one second

okay so we had two other comments let's

see uh pedro was saying i agree pleasure

isn't long-lasting and doesn't validate

your existence and william said

according to jung the point of our life

is to undergo the process of

individuation to become our most

complete self

okay so wonderful job uh william knowing

that we'll talk

a little bit about you maybe once we

talk about

uh freud um as one of the kind of descendants

descendants

of freud um and you're absolutely right

there and so it kind of lines up with

what we were talking about with the

people that believe in self-actualization

self-actualization

um okay so the next question is if you were

were

well in 1637 rene descartes

said i think therefore i am koji toyer

go soon if you were brain dead and no

longer capable of action or thought have

in 1637 descartes said i think therefore

i am this means kojito air goes soon

or kojic means i think therefore i am

um if you were brain dead and no longer

capable of action or thought have you

ceased to exist

what do you guys think this one's

actually more controversial than the last

last

hello okay yeah uh in that aspect and

actually have

thought about it very deeply i actually uh

helped my best friend put his father

dressed last year

and he was brain dead um you know

and so my outside perspective was

entirely different than his fat his and

his family

but in a way um and i hope he doesn't

disconsider it you know to me like he

did he did actually cease to exist

um you know if you put in the in the in

the aspect of his psyche and who he was

but physically his body his body yet remains

remains

so it was a very interesting experience

for me um but that that's my opinion

those are tough experiences and i had a

couple of yeah in-person students kind

of bring up that they've gone through

similar situations recently and that it

becomes blatantly clear to them when

they see their loved one

or this person you know in that state

that they are no longer themselves

that they have ceased to exist in the

way that they existed before

um that it's just really there's no way

that they can ignore that it it's clear

to them

um okay and we're getting some comments

here carly saying yes your soul is

a very important part of you once you

can no longer

think and feel i do think you have

ceased to exist

i think people are much more than their

bodies okay so you bring up the idea of

a soul and

you know thank you for being brave and i

mentioned this last time that people are now

now

scared to bring up any kind of spiritual

religious beliefs in a school setting

and i want to tell y'all y'all can feel comfortable

comfortable

bringing them up in here i think it's an

important part and i think i said this

last time

of your understanding of psychology and

all the answers to these questions

and i want to respect those individual

thoughts and beliefs and so the idea of

a soul

is an important consideration here you

know and

so i'm going to leave it up to you guys

so we have two answers here

um once you know uh pedro was saying yes

they cease to exist

um their brain is not working anymore uh

carly's kind of saying soul is important

and there's more to you than your body

but that thinking and feeling is an

important part of who you are and once

the thinking and feeling is gone maybe

you cease to exist

i know this one's more controversial so

i think i typically get less

uh responses with it so

instead what i'm gonna do okay go ahead

um i also believe that you cease to

exist once you stop thinking

okay because um the most important part

of life is thinking

i mean you can't really do anything

without thinking

i don't know if that made any sense but

it absolutely made sense

yeah yes absolutely it's a foundational

part of life is is human thought it's

life as we know it and

uh so once you lose that we've ceased to

exist in the way that that we have before

before

yes william what were you gonna say hey

i just wanted to uh uh speak about like

the opposite

like so well when you're brain dead uh

you know supposedly you know you might

not be able to think but

um is like where is your consciousness

at that moment like

um could you be dreaming and maybe in

that dream you're thinking

or you know like you never know exactly

what that person's consciousness is

going through

yeah you don't we really don't know what

consciousness is and we kind of

see consciousness as the product of

brain waves and

so we look at the screen and we see okay

if there's brain waves that means the person

person

is conscious but is that really what

consciousness is or is there more to it

than just these kind of brain waves and

so you know we're taking some

big assumptions and saying that oh yeah

they're not conscious anymore um because

we don't know what that is maybe they're

somehow there

still maybe there's something more to

life than what we see and what we understand

understand

and we're going to get to that place

maybe next week or the week after where

we kind of realize

how big the universe is and how little

we know and i just want us

all to like be humble in in realizing

that we know

so little and we've got to be careful

with the assumptions we make and so i

love that you said that

uh william that there's so much

possibility is the person still there

you know sometimes we see these

situations where someone comes back all

of a sudden

um after being in one of those states

and maybe it's rare but

it seems to happen from time to time and

then there's a whole issue of religion

and there's spirituality so you know

maybe some people in here have certain

religious beliefs in regards to the soul

and what happens to the soul

after death maybe other people you know

there's a spiritual kind of thing that

you know we have this spirit or this

presence that then

joins the rest of this larger spirit or presence

presence

there's a bunch of thoughts here so

okay i'm going to go through what this

all leads up to is the mind body debate

so first we've got to talk about descartes

descartes

descartes renee descartes um he

how my teachers used to talk about it is

he was doubting everything

and he was about to like think himself

out of existence

he kind of said how do we know that any

of this is real

how do i know that any of this is real i

don't you know and my question becomes

have y'all ever had a dream that felt

all the time yeah i it's creepy and some people

people

it's like you wake up in your dream but

you're still dreaming but you think

you're awake you know we're talking

about idea of inception kind of

that actually happened to me one time

yeah and it's confusing isn't it

yeah i was sitting in the middle of a

classroom with no clothes on and then

when i noticed that nobody was saying

anything about it that's when i realized

it was a dream

yeah like i figured it out you're like

this is too weird

something's going on here um and so

we've had these experience

a lot of people have had these dreams

that feel really real

how do we know right now that we're

actually awake

how do you know that you're awake and

part of this lecture and that you're not

dreaming this

maybe you slept through your alarm

because i'm in the exact same place i

was every other time i woke up

okay so you're trying to find you know

this consistency with this place but

what if it was all a dream

yeah all of life i always think about

that as well

yeah you know i don't know if it's true yeah

yeah

we don't know you don't we can't prove

anything kind of thing and and we're so

desperate in our society to cling to the

physical world because we feel like that

provides us evidence

so you know this idea like okay well i'm

in the same physical place every time i

wake up

you know so that proves but how do we

know the physical is real descartes

saying we don't

this table could be an illusion so if we

don't see

yeah we are sims that's what carly's

saying and here comes residential crisis

says william yes we've reached it

i fulfilled my purpose make everyone

freak out

doubt their existence um okay so

um if you all don't feel it by getting

confused about

dream world versus real life

uh what about considering schizophrenia

people with schizophrenia hear things

and see things and feel things and smell

things and all the senses they they uh

i guess i've said them all hear things

see things taste things

smell things feel things that are not there

there

like it's real to them but it's not

we say it's not real and so

how do we know that you haven't had a

schizophrenic break

how do i know that i haven't i could be

imagining all of this

i could have schizophrenia y'all could

be all figments of my imagination

just because i like this is even further

from reality because i can't

see you or touch you or anything you know

know

this is all further but like just

because you could touch somebody in

person doesn't mean that they're real it

that's how people with schizophrenia uh

experience reality their own reality

so hopefully um let's see what is

schizophrenic people are seeing and

feeling into other dimensions

carly i like that question and so i i

want to be careful with it because there

may be people out there that have loved ones

ones

uh that have schizophrenia and we don't

want to mess with

things too much we've got to recognize

that uh

their world isn't real at least we've

come to the conclusion that it's not

and it can be dangerous for us to feed

into the idea

uh that their world is actually real so

i do want to respect anyone out there

that has a family member that has

schizophrenia i i want to respect this boundary

boundary

between uh reality and and not reality

um delusion fantasy illusion

uh uh hallucination all that kind of

stuff um

but with all that being said i also at

the same time

want to respect individual experience and

and

i i don't know what gives us really you

know the right to

judge somebody else's experience as

not you know legitimate in a way

and so we do you know what if you know

what carly said schizophrenic people are

feeling and seen

into other dimensions you know what if

they somehow have broke this

programming that all the rest of us are

stuck in

and they're actually seeing and

experiencing things that

that are beyond what we can and so i

want to be careful because this is a

controversial discussion but i i do want

to move towards

a place of respect and so i like that

what carly's saying this place of

respect that we can

respect individual experience and

individuals understandings

of reality what is real is real for the person

person

and that's what we're headed towards

here ben was saying my uncle got

schizophrenia but

you would never know unless he told you

uh so that's really interesting and ben

i hope that you're here when we talk

more about these disorders so that you

can share

more about that uh individual about your uncle

uncle

uh sometimes dreaming can be a form of

deja vu but what does psychology say

about deja vu

right so that's another interesting

question why do we have this feeling

sometimes that we've been somewhere

before that we've done

things before you know is there stuff

that we don't realize that we

you know and i just want to say life

existence is so much more complicated

and i don't have of course all the answers

answers

uh psychology will probably speak to an

unconscious you know we have

um unconscious memories or we have

um unconscious information or we have

this gut feeling and sometimes we're

absorbing things and we don't realize

we're absorbing it and we're remembering it

and then we're in a similar situation

and we connect to those kind of gut

feelings those kind of unconscious

memories and

and that unconscious knowledge okay um

okay jared was saying then how do you

know how does he uh how does he know he's

he's

schizophrenic and so oh i'm trying to

control myself uh because i

love talking about schizophrenia um

typically schizophrenia

is something that's very obvious it's

not a someone kind of sorta has

schizophrenia kind of thing

it's very clear that they do um and so

we'll talk about that more later on

um but my guess is with ben that he kind

or with ben's uncle

um that he kind of kept it hidden and

maybe retreated into his own reality

into his own world

um there's different ways maybe he kind

of shut down

and just wouldn't talk about it to

others um

it would be interesting to to hear ben's account

account

um but we'll talk about it later on

typically schizophrenia is very obvious

and it actually is obvious to the people

around the person and not

to the person themselves if you have

schizophrenia a lot of times you don't know

know

because you're so caught up in your

alternate reality

you don't understand that it's not real

but the people around you

all realize you're saying things that

aren't making sense you're talking to

someone that's not there

it becomes very clear to everyone else

okay ben was saying he's a hermit so

he kind of you see this with a lot of

people schizophrenia they disconnect

and because of that disconnect other

people aren't aware of what's going on

um so that's interesting okay so dave

hart's doubting everything like we've

been doing right now

and it's fun in a way but it's anxiety

provoking and so he's like i don't know

that anything's real

and he basically said i can't trust

anything all i can trust is i think

therefore i am i am a thinking being i'm

having thoughts right now so i exist

that's all he could prove because he was

thinking i think therefore i am

in the end you know they talk about it

like he had a basket of apples those are

all his beliefs he dumped them all out

he said i can't believe anything

he put the first one back in i think

therefore i am he ended up putting

everything back in

and just getting back to kind of this

basic way of being that he believes

everything is kind of real

he was a religious person and he thought

well it's not like an evil

god is controlling us all god isn't evil

he was religious

uh so he said okay uh he wouldn't be

tricking us all

so we can trust all of this kind of

stuff it's a real simple way of

explaining descartes

but from descartes pain this mind body

dualism the mind body separation so

he's gets pegged with separating the mind

mind

from the body the brain

if we want to identify what the mind is

we can say consciousness

it's an immaterial substance

distinct from the body

a substance whose essence

is thought imagining feeling

and willing it's subjective

the brain and the body on the other hand

you can say that the brain is the organ

that serves

as the center of the nervous system

i always thought that the brain was you

oh interesting oh okay which one's you

the mind

or the brain the mind is you the mindset

and the thing is a vehicle and so yeah

i hear that in different philosophies

that it's almost like you can think about

about

uh the mind as software and the body

the brain is hardware so the brain is

like your computer

and your mind is you the software kind

of thing

the presence so i i know i may be adding

a little bit to your idea there

who was saying that sorry give you

credit jared

jared okay uh so i i like that way of

thinking and so that's exactly what i

want you all to

do here is what do you all think the

interaction is what is the relationship

um let's see well first let's do how do

they interact

how do the two interact so i think that it's

it's easy to come up with ways that the body

easy to come up with ways that the body can influence the mind

can influence the mind how does body influence mind

how does body influence mind you know some people say the body and

you know some people say the body and the brain this is matter physical matter

the brain this is matter physical matter and the mind is not it's not material

yes i thought about that too see carly's saying when you look in the mirror you

saying when you look in the mirror you aren't seeing your actual self

aren't seeing your actual self you are the brain but instead your body

you are the brain but instead your body what you are controlling and using to

what you are controlling and using to keep yourself alive okay excellent idea

keep yourself alive okay excellent idea carly and good job

carly and good job jared were you gonna say something else

jared were you gonna say something else i was gonna say well i technically the

i was gonna say well i technically the mind is the physical thing because of

mind is the physical thing because of the brain

the brain is a physical object it's just connected

is a physical object it's just connected to all these different parts of the body

to all these different parts of the body to con in order to control it similar to

to con in order to control it similar to the character axel

the character axel where he is a man strapped between into

where he is a man strapped between into this giant wheeled contraption

this giant wheeled contraption to control it that's kind of like what

to control it that's kind of like what the mind is

the mind is so do you think the mind is a product of

so do you think the mind is a product of the brain

the brain [Music]

[Music] well basically the when the mind comes

well basically the when the mind comes when the brain comes alive

when the brain comes alive it is the mind it thinks it it thinks it

it is the mind it thinks it it thinks it creates the words that you say

creates the words that you say so if we if the brain is dead is the

so if we if the brain is dead is the mind dead

well if there's still brain activity on the inside like dreaming then

the inside like dreaming then technically it is not

technically it is not dead until the activity has ceased

dead until the activity has ceased okay at that point you are 100 and dead

okay at that point you are 100 and dead okay so everyone's going to come up with

okay so everyone's going to come up with different answers to this and i love

different answers to this and i love what y'all are saying this is exactly

what y'all are saying this is exactly what i want you guys thinking is coming

what i want you guys thinking is coming up with your own kind of answer

up with your own kind of answer and i'm just asking questions to clarify

and i'm just asking questions to clarify because i'm about to give you all four

because i'm about to give you all four uh popular answers to the mind body

uh popular answers to the mind body debate and so you can figure out which

debate and so you can figure out which one yours lines up with

one yours lines up with um jared i was trying to figure out for

um jared i was trying to figure out for you and i i have a guess but we'll see

you and i i have a guess but we'll see what you say when we get to it

what you say when we get to it um how do the two interact how does the

um how do the two interact how does the mind influence a body i think that we

mind influence a body i think that we see

see okay you know the easy one i'm going to

okay you know the easy one i'm going to just blow through these really quick

just blow through these really quick um depression if we're talking about the

um depression if we're talking about the body influencing the mind

body influencing the mind we would see let's see a chemical

we would see let's see a chemical imbalance

and let's see what else could we look at uh love

uh love is just a chemical in the brain

a chemical in the brain or body love is oxytocin research now

love is oxytocin research now shows uh that body position posture

shows uh that body position posture gestures and facial expressions can

gestures and facial expressions can influence how you think so even how

influence how you think so even how you position your body and influence you

so if you want to feel happy i know this feels really fake but you should smile

feels really fake but you should smile faking a smile actually can end up

faking a smile actually can end up making you feel happier start laughing

making you feel happier start laughing just start laughing you may feel kind of

just start laughing you may feel kind of crazy

crazy but it may actually end up making you

but it may actually end up making you feel a little bit happier

feel a little bit happier um if you skip around like seriously

um if you skip around like seriously just start skipping

just start skipping you can't help but feel happy if the

you can't help but feel happy if the reverse side

reverse side if you walk around like this all day

if you walk around like this all day little tiny steps

little tiny steps slouched over you're you're gonna

slouched over you're you're gonna probably be more likely to feel a little

probably be more likely to feel a little bit sadder a little bit more depressed

bit sadder a little bit more depressed the research shows that how we put our

the research shows that how we put our body matters

body matters and so some kind of silly examples if

and so some kind of silly examples if you wrinkle your nose um while smelling

you wrinkle your nose um while smelling something

something an odor may smell more unpleasant if you

an odor may smell more unpleasant if you raise your eyebrows

raise your eyebrows you'll report being more surprised by

you'll report being more surprised by something that you read hand washing

something that you read hand washing can have a psychologically cleansing

can have a psychologically cleansing effect it can lessen feelings of guilt

effect it can lessen feelings of guilt and remorse this is really interesting

and remorse this is really interesting when you think about

when you think about ocd someone who can't stop washing their

ocd someone who can't stop washing their hands

hands is there something there that they're

is there something there that they're trying to get rid of guilt

trying to get rid of guilt get rid of remorse get rid of these

get rid of remorse get rid of these uncomfortable feelings and they're

uncomfortable feelings and they're finding

finding a cleansing effect in washing um

a cleansing effect in washing um power poses i have my students always

power poses i have my students always power pose before exams and i know some

power pose before exams and i know some people have tried to disprove the

people have tried to disprove the research on this

research on this but there is research that says that if

but there is research that says that if we pose like we're superwoman

we pose like we're superwoman or superman make the body as big as

or superman make the body as big as possible that we are actually going to

possible that we are actually going to feel more powerful it's going to change

feel more powerful it's going to change you physically inside

you physically inside you're going to increase your

you're going to increase your testosterone levels you're going to

testosterone levels you're going to decrease certain stress hormones

decrease certain stress hormones and so you're going to feel

and so you're going to feel psychologically more powerful

psychologically more powerful and you're going to perform better so

and you're going to perform better so just positioning your body

just positioning your body changes the chemicals in your body which

changes the chemicals in your body which changes your psychological experience

changes your psychological experience so we see that the body influences the

so we see that the body influences the mind

mind um what else we can look at next is what

um what else we can look at next is what about how the mind can influence the

about how the mind can influence the body

it tells it to move okay there you go i was about to say i think this one's

i was about to say i think this one's actually harder but there's a very you

actually harder but there's a very you know simple example

know simple example yeah it kind of you can think about it

yeah it kind of you can think about it as commands the kind of movements of the

as commands the kind of movements of the body

body uh so let's see jared said i think it

uh so let's see jared said i think it was jared tells it to move

was jared tells it to move command similar to how a driver tells

command similar to how a driver tells the car to move when it puts the foot on

the car to move when it puts the foot on the gas pedal

the gas pedal i like that i like that oh now i'm

i like that i like that oh now i'm thinking maybe you have a different

thinking maybe you have a different answer than mine body debate i'm

answer than mine body debate i'm interested to see what you go with in a

interested to see what you go with in a second

second um okay um one i always think about is

um okay um one i always think about is being embarrassed

being embarrassed some students get really nervous when

some students get really nervous when they speak in class in an in-person

they speak in class in an in-person setting

setting um and so they get nervous uh they're

um and so they get nervous uh they're embarrassed

embarrassed and then all of a sudden they blush so

and then all of a sudden they blush so they have this physical reaction to a

they have this physical reaction to a psychological state

psychological state being embarrassed

and it's so frustrating if you're the person that's blushing because it's like

person that's blushing because it's like darn it my body is betraying me it's

darn it my body is betraying me it's revealing

revealing my psychological state no one would have

my psychological state no one would have known that i was nervous

known that i was nervous if my body hadn't done this you know

if my body hadn't done this you know screw you body kind of thing

screw you body kind of thing but it's stemming from your

but it's stemming from your psychological state um maybe when

psychological state um maybe when uh you're nervous so for me when i'm

uh you're nervous so for me when i'm nervous

nervous my stomach immediately hurts

someone who believes that it's all just stemming from the body

stemming from the body would say oh well uh nervousness is

would say oh well uh nervousness is actually

actually a physical thing um and it's not a mind

a physical thing um and it's not a mind thing um and that everything else is

thing um and that everything else is just a product of the physical so i know

just a product of the physical so i know that sounded kind of confusing but some

that sounded kind of confusing but some people

people are thinking that way and so let's move

are thinking that way and so let's move towards those kind of different answers

towards those kind of different answers that recognize that position in other

that recognize that position in other positions

positions um okay so oh meditation though i forgot

um okay so oh meditation though i forgot to mention this in my in-person classes

to mention this in my in-person classes meditation is a really powerful example

meditation is a really powerful example of the mind influencing the body

of the mind influencing the body we're in to practice meditation later in

we're in to practice meditation later in the semester it's

the semester it's it it changes the body's physical change

it it changes the body's physical change it changes the brain

it changes the brain meditation does and it's a mental

meditation does and it's a mental exercise

exercise okay so the popular answers to the mind

okay so the popular answers to the mind body debate

body debate i'm going to go ahead and write them

i'm going to go ahead and write them here

this is what stemmed from descartes descartes got blamed with separating the

descartes got blamed with separating the mind from the body dualism means two

mind from the body dualism means two separate things

separate things it's an important word there the other

it's an important word there the other ideas are monistic

ideas are monistic uh theories uh so they're all gonna

uh theories uh so they're all gonna emphasize uh

emphasize uh one part um i'm looking for something to

one part um i'm looking for something to highlight this

highlight this oh and it did the whole thing and that

oh and it did the whole thing and that is way too much pink

is way too much pink okay so dualism two things so he got

okay so dualism two things so he got pegged with separating these things and

pegged with separating these things and causing this whole debate

causing this whole debate but really i see this idea not just from

but really i see this idea not just from descartes i see it stemming way back in

descartes i see it stemming way back in religion

religion this idea that the body is a capsule

this idea that the body is a capsule for the soul that's mind-body dualism

for the soul that's mind-body dualism your mind maybe you see it as your soul

your mind maybe you see it as your soul consciousness

consciousness is separate from the body and the body

is separate from the body and the body is just a capsule so kind of like the

is just a capsule so kind of like the the mind your consciousness is driving

the mind your consciousness is driving the car

the car kind of thing but what jared had just

kind of thing but what jared had just said a second ago but i'm not going to

said a second ago but i'm not going to say that he believes in my body dualism

say that he believes in my body dualism i'm just saying that this is the idea

i'm just saying that this is the idea there that stemmed from descartes

there that stemmed from descartes because he said um you know i i don't

because he said um you know i i don't know that my body is real

know that my body is real i only know consciousness but he ended

i only know consciousness but he ended up believing um that it's almost like

up believing um that it's almost like we have this little cartoon version of

we have this little cartoon version of ourselves that sits in our brain

ourselves that sits in our brain and that's our consciousness and it's

and that's our consciousness and it's looking through a screen which is our

looking through a screen which is our eyes

eyes and it's moving around our kind of robot

and it's moving around our kind of robot body and commanding our body

body and commanding our body um but that they're two separate things

um but that they're two separate things so we see it in religion we see it in

so we see it in religion we see it in descartes so this stems from descartes

descartes so this stems from descartes this is a quiz question

mind body dualism uh the mind and body are two distinct entities

are two distinct entities that interact with each other

that interact with each other to make a person

okay the next is going to be physicalistic monism

and mental processes will eventually

be explained in terms of these okay i need to focus mental processes

okay i need to focus mental processes will eventually be explained

will eventually be explained in terms of these physical entities

in terms of these physical entities as physical theory as science as

as physical theory as science as medicine continues to evolve

there is so much focus on this viewpoint in our society right now

in our society right now on the objective side of this dichotomy

on the objective side of this dichotomy that there's a tendency to assume that

that there's a tendency to assume that this is the only approach

this is the only approach so just so you know this is huge

so just so you know this is huge right now and in mainstream psychology

right now and in mainstream psychology it's huge

it's huge in mainstream science in everything

in mainstream science in everything right now this

right now this is kind of a central belief

is kind of a central belief um and then the next one i'm going to

um and then the next one i'm going to put is the opposite

put is the opposite idealism this is another monistic theory

idealism this is another monistic theory so the physicalistic monism

so the physicalistic monism only believes that the body and the

only believes that the body and the brain exist

brain exist it believes that the mind consciousness

it believes that the mind consciousness is all a product

is all a product of the body and the brain um love is

of the body and the brain um love is just a chemical in the brain happiness

just a chemical in the brain happiness is a chemical in the body all of this is

is a chemical in the body all of this is just a product of the physical world

just a product of the physical world the physical world is all that is all

the physical world is all that is all that exists

that exists the opposite is idealism they believe in

the opposite is idealism they believe in only the mind and only consciousness

only the mind and only consciousness and only these non-material kind of

and only these non-material kind of things

things and so it's only the mind it's this

and so it's only the mind it's this and the external world the physical

and the external world the physical world is either mental itself

world is either mental itself or an illusion

created by the mind this is a wild way of viewing the world

this is a wild way of viewing the world this is kind of in line with the matrix

this is kind of in line with the matrix and i always say if there's anyone out

and i always say if there's anyone out there believes in idealism talk to me

there believes in idealism talk to me because you've got to be fascinated

because you've got to be fascinated these are the people that are fun to

these are the people that are fun to talk to because their view

talk to because their view is that everything out there doesn't

is that everything out there doesn't exist it's all an illusion it's all

exist it's all an illusion it's all created by the mind

created by the mind this morning i was thinking about this

this morning i was thinking about this and i finally got to a place that i

and i finally got to a place that i could believe in this a little bit

could believe in this a little bit i don't know that i came to a place that

i don't know that i came to a place that i can explain it but it was almost like

i can explain it but it was almost like you can think of all of existence the

you can think of all of existence the whole universe everything as this

whole universe everything as this massive consciousness

massive consciousness and then we're just all little pieces

and then we're just all little pieces and levels of this consciousness

and levels of this consciousness and that this consciousness is creating

and that this consciousness is creating this experience of the world

this experience of the world this kind of illusion of a physical

this kind of illusion of a physical world and we're all individually living

world and we're all individually living in it kind of thing

in it kind of thing i think that's what that kind of

i think that's what that kind of viewpoint looks at reality as

viewpoint looks at reality as it's kind of wild it's kind of cool so

it's kind of wild it's kind of cool so really neat if that's what you believe

really neat if that's what you believe and i'm going to give you all another

and i'm going to give you all another kind of out here because what i

kind of out here because what i see in these and i want to say this is a

see in these and i want to say this is a psychology class this is not a

psychology class this is not a philosophy class you're going to go into

philosophy class you're going to go into if you study philosophy this stuff in

if you study philosophy this stuff in way more detail

way more detail and your professor would be more of an

and your professor would be more of an expert on this i study it from a bit of

expert on this i study it from a bit of a psychological perspective i did study

a psychological perspective i did study philosophical

philosophical psychology um so i know a good amount

psychology um so i know a good amount but i just want to say

but i just want to say i'm like hitting this just barely um

i'm like hitting this just barely um jared's saying so we are all the same

jared's saying so we are all the same person as

person as that's what i was thinking like this

that's what i was thinking like this massive consciousness

massive consciousness uh that is is yes you know

uh that is is yes you know it's all going to sound weird but that's

it's all going to sound weird but that's idealism i want to give you an out

idealism i want to give you an out physicalistic monism saying there's one

physicalistic monism saying there's one thing it's all the physical

thing it's all the physical idealism saying there's one thing it's

idealism saying there's one thing it's all the non-material it's all the mind i

all the non-material it's all the mind i feel like both of those are rather

feel like both of those are rather extreme so then people go towards mind

extreme so then people go towards mind body body dualism because

body body dualism because they're trying to respect both kind of

they're trying to respect both kind of things but there's a problem in mind

things but there's a problem in mind body dualism

body dualism that it causes this separation and i

that it causes this separation and i don't know that we want

don't know that we want a separation because we hear so much in

a separation because we hear so much in the previous discussion

the previous discussion of the connectedness of the mind and the

of the connectedness of the mind and the body

body of this this relationship that you can't

of this this relationship that you can't separate them kind of thing and we

separate them kind of thing and we experience them

experience them kind of as one and so i feel like this

kind of as one and so i feel like this last one gives you a little bit of an

last one gives you a little bit of an out neutral monism

out neutral monism you don't have to pick as a stream of a

you don't have to pick as a stream of a position and you don't have to separate

position and you don't have to separate these things cause this big bifurcation

these things cause this big bifurcation so

so both mind and matter are aspects

both mind and matter are aspects of a distinct essence

of a distinct essence that is itself identical

that is itself identical to neither of them

how i think about this one this is a simplistic way of explaining

simplistic way of explaining it there's something over arching

it there's something over arching overarching over arching over arcing

overarching over arching over arcing whatever it is and then you have the

whatever it is and then you have the mind and the body

mind and the body they're part of this broader thing

they're part of this broader thing so it's this distinct essence that

so it's this distinct essence that they're both part of therefore they're

they're both part of therefore they're one

one because they're part of this broader

because they're part of this broader thing um and that distinct essence is

thing um and that distinct essence is not

not physical and it's not mental it's not

physical and it's not mental it's not matter and it's not non-material

matter and it's not non-material it's something different i was just

it's something different i was just reading a whole bunch this morning about

reading a whole bunch this morning about this because i wanted to understand more

this because i wanted to understand more of the specifics of neutral monism and i

of the specifics of neutral monism and i was surprised that william james is one

was surprised that william james is one of the big proponents of it

of the big proponents of it he was one of the first guys talking

he was one of the first guys talking about this perspective y'all who is

about this perspective y'all who is william james do y'all remember from the

william james do y'all remember from the history of psychology lecture

history of psychology lecture um he's the father of american

um he's the father of american psychology i got it lena

psychology i got it lena yeah so i always say it william james

yeah so i always say it william james who's the father of psychology overall

who's the father of psychology overall ben wood

ben wood thank you you said it like me feel him

thank you you said it like me feel him wounds it's like you need all this

wounds it's like you need all this gravel in your throat

gravel in your throat that's the father of psychology um and

that's the father of psychology um and so william james father of american

so william james father of american psychology

psychology talked about maybe this overarching

talked about maybe this overarching thing

thing is actually experience itself

is actually experience itself experience is not necessarily

experience is not necessarily non-material it's not necessarily

non-material it's not necessarily a physical it's not necessarily matter

a physical it's not necessarily matter it's something different

it's something different it's something and so it's hard to

it's something and so it's hard to explain but that we experience the world

explain but that we experience the world as kind of both of these things

as kind of both of these things uh making up our experience does that

uh making up our experience does that make any sense

make any sense so anyway i want you all to think about

so anyway i want you all to think about this kind of stuff and come up with

this kind of stuff and come up with with your own answer i think there's an

with your own answer i think there's an importance so that we also question do

importance so that we also question do we want them separate or do we want them

we want them separate or do we want them together and all of this is going to

together and all of this is going to influence the way that you understand

influence the way that you understand different things in psychology

different things in psychology whether it's psychological disorders or

whether it's psychological disorders or whether it's stress

whether it's stress or whether it's drug use do you care

or whether it's drug use do you care about the physical or do you care about

about the physical or do you care about something non-physical something

something non-physical something material the mind consciousness which

material the mind consciousness which one do you give more power to

one do you give more power to or do you try to treat them equally do

or do you try to treat them equally do you treat them as connected

you treat them as connected or as separate so there's a bunch of

or as separate so there's a bunch of things that all this is going to

things that all this is going to influence i do

influence i do think a little bit in my mind and it's

think a little bit in my mind and it's because of my own professors

because of my own professors let's not separate things too much i

let's not separate things too much i think it's important that we emphasize

think it's important that we emphasize connection

connection that there's multiple dimensions to

that there's multiple dimensions to things but it's all connected

things but it's all connected both within the individual and within

both within the individual and within all of existence if that makes any sense

all of existence if that makes any sense so uh jared which which idea do you side

so uh jared which which idea do you side with the most

with the most he's like a lot of them are kind of

he's like a lot of them are kind of interesting

interesting yeah but the the mind body dualism kind

yeah but the the mind body dualism kind of falls in line with my idea that the

of falls in line with my idea that the mind

mind is a driver that's jacked into the body

is a driver that's jacked into the body vehicle

vehicle yeah that's what i was thinking the only

yeah that's what i was thinking the only thing that i heard at one point was i

thing that i heard at one point was i was wondering if you believe the mind is

was wondering if you believe the mind is just a product of the physical world and

just a product of the physical world and that if the

that if the physical stops existing the mind would

physical stops existing the mind would as well

as well and then i wonder if maybe you fall

and then i wonder if maybe you fall somewhat into physicalistic monism

somewhat into physicalistic monism i mean i've had that i there were a

i mean i've had that i there were a couple of times where i had that idea

couple of times where i had that idea yeah yeah and so i think that those are

yeah yeah and so i think that those are really the big

really the big answers right now you know and what

answers right now you know and what psychology mainstream is trying to force

psychology mainstream is trying to force people into is the physicalistic monism

people into is the physicalistic monism they want us to believe that everything

they want us to believe that everything is

is is a product of the brain um whether

is a product of the brain um whether it's love

it's love or stress or schizophrenia or alcoholism

or stress or schizophrenia or alcoholism it's all the brain and the body um and i

it's all the brain and the body um and i mean it's to the point that you know i

mean it's to the point that you know i was watching an introductory lecture

was watching an introductory lecture from some professor at yale and he

from some professor at yale and he starts it off with saying

starts it off with saying all of y'all probably believe in mind

all of y'all probably believe in mind body dualism because of your religion

body dualism because of your religion but by the end of this course you're not

but by the end of this course you're not going to believe in that anymore you're

going to believe in that anymore you're going to believe in physicalistic monism

going to believe in physicalistic monism that's the only way he said everything

that's the only way he said everything psychological is biological

psychological is biological i don't believe it's right for him to do

i don't believe it's right for him to do that you know instead my viewpoint is

that you know instead my viewpoint is oh i'm not going to tell y'all what to

oh i'm not going to tell y'all what to think i i don't think there's a right or

think i i don't think there's a right or wrong answer here

wrong answer here instead i'm just going to tell you all

instead i'm just going to tell you all to think and come up with those roots

to think and come up with those roots yourselves

yourselves i think it's just a better i don't know

i think it's just a better i don't know a

a way of handling all this but just so you

way of handling all this but just so you all understand the amount of pressure

all understand the amount of pressure out there um that peop that mainstream

out there um that peop that mainstream psychology is going to want you to

psychology is going to want you to believe in physicalistic monism and

believe in physicalistic monism and maybe you're going to hear that

maybe you're going to hear that throughout this uh semester okay

throughout this uh semester okay oh i don't want to go but i think that

oh i don't want to go but i think that it's time to go um

it's time to go um i need to talk about um natural sciences

i need to talk about um natural sciences versus human sciences

versus human sciences i am

i am [Music]

okay i'm going to go ahead and kind of end this lecture um and i'm going to end

end this lecture um and i'm going to end the recording so i can get this posted

the recording so i can get this posted for you guys but i'm going to stick

for you guys but i'm going to stick around right now

around right now and lecture on the sciences for about

and lecture on the sciences for about 10-15 minutes so anyone that has the

10-15 minutes so anyone that has the time is welcome to stay

time is welcome to stay anybody that needs to go you're 100 free

anybody that needs to go you're 100 free to go i will post that next real short

to go i will post that next real short recording for you guys to watch later

recording for you guys to watch later um i just want to say really briefly

um i just want to say really briefly before i end this recording

before i end this recording i appreciate you guys i mean i am so

i appreciate you guys i mean i am so happy right now

happy right now because this was like i said earlier one

because this was like i said earlier one of the most interactive

of the most interactive uh online lectures i've ever had

uh online lectures i've ever had um and so i just feel so happy i feel

um and so i just feel so happy i feel like i know you guys and i'm so proud

like i know you guys and i'm so proud that y'all were all brave enough to kind

that y'all were all brave enough to kind of speak up

of speak up and share your thoughts about especially

and share your thoughts about especially these controversial confusing weird

these controversial confusing weird things

things so thank you and i really look forward

so thank you and i really look forward to our next live lecture now

to our next live lecture now um for anyone that just watched this

um for anyone that just watched this recording you felt a little bit left out

recording you felt a little bit left out hopefully we find a time that you can

hopefully we find a time that you can participate as well hopefully you can

participate as well hopefully you can join in at some time but also

join in at some time but also know that it's okay to watch the

know that it's okay to watch the recordings and participate through the

recordings and participate through the discussion boards and reach out to me if

discussion boards and reach out to me if you need anything

you need anything thank you to everyone i'm going to end

thank you to everyone i'm going to end this recording let me know if you need

this recording let me know if you need anything and goodbye

anything and goodbye thank you

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Live Lecture #2 - Mind Body Debate