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Was Charles Manson Born To Kill? | True Crime Story | Real Stories | Real Stories | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Was Charles Manson Born To Kill? | True Crime Story | Real Stories
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Charles Manson and his so-called family
would become the most infamous killers
of the 20th century the victims died in
the worst way
committing a series of brutal and
seemingly senseless crimes that would
spell the end of the 1960s hippie dream
they were vicious I mean just horrible
true killings I mean it's multiple
stabbing while people are begging for
their lives but what made mensen the man
he was he was a very powerful person
when he said jump they jumped counted so
many young people fall under his spell
Charlie would talk about how he was
Jesus and the devil all in one and were
Manson and his followers born to kill [Music]
August 8 1969 I was a Los Angeles police
officer worked in West Los Angeles
division and I received a radio call at
about nine o'clock in the morning a man
down at Cielo Drive
I wasn't expecting what I saw when I got
to that house in a theme described by
one investigator as reminiscent of a
weird religious right five persons
including actress Sharon Tate were found
dead at the home of Miss Tate and her
husband screen director Roman Polanski
mr. Tate was eight months pregnant I was
the first one in there what I entered
the house saw everybody was dead the
word Pig written on the front door and
somebody's blood it was very gruesome [Music]
[Music]
Detective Sergeant Mike McGann was
assigned the case when I arrived on the
scene there was some wires that were cut
over a large gate I entered the driveway
and found a car parked about set of
driveway which contained a Steven parent
18 year-old Steven parent had been
leaving after a visit to the properties
caretaker and I went inside and I
discovered Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring
26 year old Sharon Tate had been renting
the Bel Air home celebrity hairdresser
Jay Sebring had been visiting the eight
and a half month pregnant actress
Sharon was terribly stabbed and they
were tied together with a rope which was
tossed over a rafter in the house I
continued on through the back door and I
found abigail folger 25 year old coffee
heiress abigail folger was a houseguest
of the Polanski's Abigail even stabbed
numerous times
she was very bloodied and obviously dead
and I also found voytek frykowski
Folgers lover for Kowski was a friend of
Polanski from Poland Wojcik had also
been struck with a gun that they used it
was a it was a terrible scene I had been
working homicide for a long time so I
had seen a lot of scenes but I don't
think any quite as bad as this would
Polanski was in Europe at the time of
course he dashed back when he found out
that he's his young pregnant wife had
been murdered
and held probably one of the most moving
news conferences by the way that I've
the houses up and now you see lot of
blood all over the place
travels maybe close and that's all
of course the husband can be a suspect
and so we wanted to talk to Roman and
and he agreed to take a polygraph the
next morning at our crime lab and I was
there with a polygraph examiner he
passed with flying colors there was no
question he was not part of the homicide
nobody knew who did it nobody had a clue
and Hollywood just went nuts dogs
oh hell I panicked all these movie stars
they were hiring you know guards and
off-duty police anybody that could get
to the house I mean it was a complete
panic in the Hollywood area and the next
night the killing continued businessman
Leno LaBianca and his wife Rosemary was
stabbed to death in their home again
messages were written in blood
after the lobby office were murdered
that day it really started hot and heavy
there was a lot of fear in paranoia
here in LA particularly in the movie
colony why well not just because the
murders were incredibly gruesome total
169 stab wounds but they seemed to be
random despite a massive police
operation investigators were unable to
identify a perpetrator we did everything
we do I mean we we had everybody we
could possibly have think of working on
the case doing every possible thing
every lead we had we exhausted then
three months after the murders
detectives got word that a young
California girl had made an
extraordinary jailhouse confession a
story so strange it was almost
unbelievable was a crazy story out there
yeah it was very crazy susan was nice
especially every one of me talking to
her and in that period of time
you you would think it was impossible I
mean she was just a very nice young lady
21 year old Susan Atkins had claimed two
cellmates that she and a group of her
friends were responsible for the
terrible crimes
if these were typical murderer types or
robbers your rapists or burglars
it would have been quite as shocking but
they started looking at the backgrounds
of these people most of them came from
good middle-class families in December's
Leslie Van Houten was a homecoming queen
Tex Watson as a star athlete Patricia
KRENWINKEL sang in the church choir at
one time she want to become a nun these
seemingly all-american kids have become
unrecognizable to their families she was
controlled by an unlikely but powerful
puppet master this Charles Manson this
mephistophelian guru type who was very
charismatic very intelligent 35 year old
ex-convict Charles Manson commanded an
unerring devotion from his hippie
disciples they would kill seemingly at
his whim he did control a minute when he
said job they jumped the name Charles
Manson would become synonymous with evil
but who was this diminutive guru and how
was he able to convince his young
devotees to commit frenzied bloody murder
over two nights in August 1969 actress
Sharon Tate and six others had been
slain in one of the century's most
infamous crimes the killers were a group
of young seemingly middle-class flower
children acting on behalf of their
spiritual leader 35 year old ex-convict
Charles Manson [Music]
[Music]
but just who was this powerful guru
Manson was to have been born as an
unwanted illegitimate child of a young
prostitute disowned birth pretty much
raised by relatives he grew up it's a
very tight situation it's been claimed
that Manson's mother once tried to sell
her infant son to a childless waitress
in return for a pitcher of beer from an
early age he was left to his own devices
got involved in delinquent / criminal
activities when you grow up on the
street particularly if you're short and
slight like Manson is you have to be
able to learn how to read people very
very quickly and determine who you can
get over on and who you can't and Manson
was excellent at that from the mid 1940s
onwards a raft of thefts and armed
robberies would see the young Manson
passed through several institutions
where he was said to be sexually
brutalized what comes through certainly
looking at all the psychiatrist reports
and probation reports of Charles Manson
that was heaps of potential there but
something had happened early in life and
this this dogged him the whole time he
felt he'd been dealt a bad hand by the
1950s in his rare periods of freedom
Manson expanded his criminal repertoire
to include pimping young women from a
Hollywood apartment
the qualities that a pimp has to entrap
intimidate extort run the life of their
prostitutes rent them out sell them and
so forth
those are qualities that stood Manson
incarcerated again in 1960 and facing a
lengthy sentence Manson began to study
new ways of thinking when he was in
Terminal Island there was a
Scientologist Manson picked up on this
and he did 150 hours of auditing which
is the Scientology term for counseling
and Mansa started writing songs what he
was doing which is quite revolutionary
for the time he started imbuing these
songs with much of the philosophies that
he was picking up from Scientology and
also from his observations of human
nature so I think certainly Manson at
that point he's actually left the
persona of the petty criminal and he's
that fellow convict Phil Kaufman would
encounter Manson in early 1967 I was
arrested importing smuggling if you will
so a little bit of weed from Mexico it's
convicted in Arizona and sent to
Terminal Island California where my
first day of the yard I heard this guy
playing guitar and sing and he sounded a
look at your game girl
don't think I was pretty good the hack
the guard came up to a Charles and said
Manson you can't play your guitar here
you got a biscuit our place for playing
to get sorry says you know you ain't
never gonna get out of here Manson and
so they said I had a where man everybody
kept on goin playing this guitar part of
the mansion that the public came to know
was a very institutionalized person who
was used to being told what to do and
felt more comfortable in a confined or
isolated place when you have an
individual like Manson who doesn't fear
any type of punishment really he's a
very dangerous individual if someone
beats you with a whip and you love the
whip it's heaven right here Jack right here
here
Charles Manson had been imprisoned in
1960 when he was eventually released
seven years later the world was a very
different place we had just come out of
the fifties where teenagers were
basically kept on a very tight leash and
then all of a sudden this this wonderful
subculture erupted and we all became free
free [Music]
the 32 year old guitar-playing ex-con
headed to the eye of the storm [Music]
[Music]
there were thousands of young people all
up and down this street and this was all
the psychedelic scene dr. David Smith
founded the neighborhood's famous free
medical clinic 1967 was totally crazy
the streets would jam people were taking
LSD and dancing and music everywhere we
had the diggers giving up free food and
it was just a total insanity and we were
in the middle of it we did a survey of
the thousands of kids that came through
our clinic and 98% of them had used LSD
Charlie it saw a good thing when he
realized that if somebody ran around and
talked like a guru in that day and age
especially up in San Francisco you could
gather a group of followers in no time
you're taught but you can't they even
teach you the word they give you the
words take all the words away and don't
think it right wrong
just think in truth among those to fall
under Manson's spell were librarian Mary
Brunner disaffected teenager Lynette
Fromme and 19 year-old drifter Susan
Atkins she had a tough start in life on
top of a broken home on top of child
abuse Susan Atkins had to suffer the
death for mother from cancer and she was
compute e pretty wild so wild that her
family couldn't contain her and like
many others she headed off to San
Francisco where she worked variously as
a waitress and as a topless go-go dancer
she came across Manson quite early on in
the in the history of the Manson Family
and he was able to assume a fatherly
role with her which is a template for
what went on with the other girls also
joining the group in 1967 would be 20
year old Patricia KRENWINKEL later
renamed by Charlie as Katie she had a
troubled childhood as much she suffered
from overt problem with body hair which
as anyone knows has come through the
teenage thing that can really screw
someone up and her sister was a heavy
drug user she would dominate it the
family so Patricia really was a
forgotten charm
Tricia KRENWINKEL talked about meeting
Charlie and she met him down at the
beach and he took her to an apartment
and had her take off all her clothes and
look at herself in a full-length mirror
and say isn't that that the most
beautiful thing you've ever seen cease
to exist just come and say and that's it
he got her she was his after that come
on you can't be like many communal
groups of the 60s Manson and his girls
got an old school bus and began roaming
California on his release from prison
Phil Kaufman joined up with the group in
it was incredible you know it was sex
sex sex drugs and rock and roll real sex
drugs and rock and roll it was sex on
demand it was you know I mean if I get
just gotten out of prison you know any
pretty girls you just want to get laid
that's a good day at the office
the music was the seduction he did get
the new girl some new girl hood runaway
he was good and the girls would all sit
and you know and you know play their
little instruments and and that usually
worked you know that was that was the
hook it got a man
Phil Kaufman would introduce Manson to a
number of music producers including
Doris Day's son Terry Melcher Manson
hoped to get a major recording contract
and introduce his songs to the world
remember that a lot of people had not
heard this type of music before and
Manson was not that savvy to the
industry media industry music
interesting BS at the time if they said
to him Charlie it's brilliant
we loved it we'll be in touch he
believed they meant it
they may award bell-bottom power to
families that long hair but they were
businessmen and Charlie and the family
were hippies and they wanted to do
hippie music you know and it was just
this total chaos it was just the
recording shows were terrible but
Charlie always kept pursuing a
professional recording as a child Manson
had been rejected by his mother
now the LA music industry would do the
same it became evident to me that you
in 1967 after spending over half his
life in institutions thirty-two-year-old
petty criminal Charles Manson had been
released into a brave new world
gathering a small band of admiring
followers in San Francisco Manson and
the group began roaming the state
picking up new recruits along the way in
Los Angeles 16 year old Barbara Hoyt was
just one of many young people they
attracted he was definitely a father
figure to everybody I admired him it was
everybody gave me lots of attention
they're all very nice to me
I think the acceptance I felt was very
strong draw and I think that was
probably one of the main draws to to the
cult and probably anybody within a few weeks
weeks
Barbara would move with her new family
to a rundown film set in the hills
outside Los Angeles a location that will
it's a heavy feeling here it was just
such such evil that came out of here [Music]
and such a pretty
place my god [Music]
[Music]
I can smell the same smell over those
trees I can see where the ranch was down
in front of me over there was the Corral
and back here was the barn and in front
of the barn was the movie set this just
seems so surreal [Music]
[Music]
it's almost like it was long ago dream
instead of reality at the ranch
Barbara Hoyt would live among young men
and women that within months would
become murderers including 23 year-old
Charles Tex Watson and 20 year-old
Leslie Van Mountain Leslie Van Houten
was from Monrovia and by all accounts
just a really all-american type girl she
was a homecoming princess at my high
school and she come from a family which
was affluent that had broken down she
had sought solace in drugs she'd also
had an affair which end it resulted in
in the pregnancy on an abortion like
most of Manson's women she was in a
vortex in a void Tex was kind of happy
go lucky he didn't challenge Charlie for
leadership at all
he he don't he did what Charlie told him
to do he came from a solid family
background but something happened and
that I believe was drugs it just took
him from a path she was leading to a
successful professional life onto a
completely different way literally free
sex and freedom of sexual relationships
was quite attractive to him heterosexual
relationships to some group orgies
always a conspicuous presence would be
the young Susan Adkins by then
rechristened by Manson as Sadie
the first time I met Sadie she's sitting
on the floor kind of against the wall
and there are people around and she
sported right in front of me and cut one
whoa she would do stuff for shock well I
thought she was great at the time I
thought you know wow I have a free
person you know at the ranch this child
like free spirit was a state of mind the
group aspired to
the philosophy was that everything you
learned was wrong so we're gonna erase
your mind and make it childlike but in
retrospect you could see the by doing
that then you could implant your ideas
and philosophy any kind of belief system
you had that was considered trash so
people worked on disbelieving things
that they've been taught unlearning
everything you learned in school so that
you'd end up basically having no
opinions based on what you were brought
up with you wouldn't have any more
values any more it's that that were
given to us by our parents and peers but
everything we did was it was our choice
you know people gave up their egos
willingly whenever people convert to a
new political philosophy or a new
religion a new way of life it's not
because some spend Galli or some
powerful evangelists or some powerful
malevolent figures such as Manson was so
strong in the way they came on and so
articulate that they instantly converted
people it's always an interactive
process they needed him to be a
father-like figure a guru and they
created that for themselves
Manson needed followers Manson needed
people to listen to him and so they both
got what they each needed from each other
other
but not everyone would find Charles
Manson and his philosophies irresistible
Charles and I drove up to San Francisco
just the two of us it was at that time
when the philosophy of the hippies was
do your own thing man
you know let the man get you do your own
thing and I kept saying that Charlie
can't sit now and I'm doing your own
thing and I yeah man and you're like you
know it I was like if he did be at the
time you know we said then that he
realized that that I wasn't programming
and then was he after we got back for
awhile and I said Charlie you know I
gotta go he says yeah just still think
and hurt you and I said yeah I'm still
thinking Manson's feelings of power were
growing in 1968 dr. David Smith's
medical clinic studied the group at
spans ranch I really thought that he was
delusional and borderline psychotic he
did refer to himself as God he just hung
his arms out you know and and bow his
head and we know what he meant
Charlie would talk about how he was
Jesus and the devil all in one and all
men were but he was more of the epitome
of it he certainly said that he who
killed me like who and when yelling
across 2,000 years ago and didn't do it
I think bitter good in the summer of
1969 Manson would take playing God to
in the isolated ranch in the mountains
above Los Angeles surrounded by his band
of loyal disciples the man who'd spent
more than half his life in jail would
begin preaching an Armageddon gospel he
called helter skelter he explained to me
about helter skelter you know it's a
racist philosophy basically but he he
explained it to me like would God want
all the flowers to be the same color and
you know he made it seem like something
very pretty
helter skelter came out of one of the
Beatles songs the words but what it came
to mean to Manson and what he was
preaching so to speak to his followers
was a race war we had Watts Riots and so
you know I far as I was concerned he was
just saying the saying the obvious
anytime the word black who is mentioned
he he you know he hackles up because he
had been in prison and he saw that you
know you know how it was between whites
and blacks he said the black man was
gonna win this war but he said black
yelling those were Whitey's for him to
do and they're not gonna be able to
handle the reins of power so they're
gonna have to turn over the reins for
those white people who had survived
television I eat Charles Manson his
family they said we're gonna come on at
the bottom mr. Pitts and will take over
the leadership of the world Charlie
wanted to have his own twelve tribes of
Israel basically out there in the desert
and he he planned for a whole
civilization so it was quite quite a
grand design did Manson believe what he
was telling them about the apocalypse
coming no he didn't believe that at all
III I would be amazed if he actually
believed that this was a show this was
totally a performance that Manson put on
Manson is not mentally ill he's not
psychotic he's manipulative and
narcissistic and psychopathic but he's
not mentally ill and neither were the
followers mentally ill the end of the
world is a good draw you know a lot of
by the middle of the year the atmosphere
at the ranch began to change
significantly the intensity level was
noticeable like helter skelter is coming
down like now Manson's world was
beginning to unravel unknown to Barbara
Hoyt in May during a drug deal gone wrong
wrong
Charles Manson had shot a dealer he
believed to be a member of the militant
Black Panther girl we started having
guards at the ranch you know hiding in
the haystack in various places they had
field phones laid out between the front
of the ranch in the back of the ranch
then the Black Panthers were gonna come
for us
Charlie was getting pretty panicky and
intense and high-strung and and frightened
at the same time the LA County Sheriff's
Department were beginning to take notice
of the strange group we are attempted
to run some undercover officers in there
to try to buy narcotics because they
were dealing doing a lot of things never
had one
bit of success because they just would
not accept a stranger Charlie had family
members up here on the hill watching the
cops watch us yeah so we were all
watching each other it was all fun
considered it fun
we eventually arrested Charlie a couple
of his female friends
Malibu sheriff's station and book them
while we were interviewing Charlie we
were notified by des personnel that
somebody had come into the station to
try to bail him out and I asked who it
was and they even gave me a name a name
was Gary Hinman didn't mean anything to
us when I repeated that name to Charlie
[Music]
detective Salerno could never have known
that Gary Hinman would soon become the
first murder victim of the Manson family
in July 1969 Manson and his followers
attempted to extort money and property
from Hinman when he refused to cooperate
Manson family associate Bobby Beausoleil
took action when him and basically said
you're nuts I'm not giving anything to
you so they killed him they stabbed him
and and then they smothered him with a
pillow allegedly to play suspicion for
the murder on the Black Panther
political group slogans were dogged on
the wall in blood along with a panther
portrait the murder attracted little
attention but in less than a month's
time the family would commit a crime
that would make the world sit up and
take notice
my own personal feeling is the motive
for the killing was a series of events
which chipped away at Manson's Dominion
there was no record deal people were
leaving the family people were
questioning Manson's ability to be this
self-proclaimed Messiah there was chinks
appearing and the last weapon in his
on August the 8th 1969 Manson launched a
series of crimes he hoped would be
blamed on the black community I remember
the night that he had called Tex and I
remember looking at them as they were
talking it was almost like a black cloud
was around him it was dark and he told
me to take the other younger girls to a
place called the wickiup and he ordered
me to do it he didn't ask me he ordered me
me [Music]
[Music]
I was good half mile down the road there
was a back house way back there and
Sadie had called me on the field phone
and told me to bring three sets of dark
clothes up to the front of the ranch I
showed up with the clothes and Charlie
snapped at me
wanted to know what I was doing at the
front of the ranch when he told me to do
something else and I told him that Sadie
had asked me to bring the three sets of clothes
clothes
and he told me no they already left
Susan Atkins Patricia KRENWINKEL Tex
Watson and newcomer Linda Kasabian were
headed to the former home of record
producer Terry Melcher now being rented
by director Roman Polanski and his
actress wife Sharon Tate
they cut the telephone wires climbed
over the fence got in through an open
window and it was hell on entry to the
property former all-american high school
kid Tex Watson was reported to tell its
residents I am the devil and I've come
to do the devil's business these people
I knew and slept with and loved are now
heinous murderers they were vicious I
mean just horrible killings I mean some
multiple stabbing while people are
begging for their lives these people who
I've known you know made love to or now
now they're killing people that way I
mean point.but a flip complete flip for
Manson he had no empathy or emotional
attachment to any of these people the
victims died in the worst way for Kowski
was beaten over the head numerous times
on huge gashes ease and we believe this
is a weapon the techs used to kill him
Patricia KRENWINKEL chased abigail
folger across the lawn and poor abigail
was screaming and running for her life
this is not a nice way to die
Patricia KRENWINKEL her only complaint
is that the ninth went down to the bone
and started hurting her hand went so far
down Susan Atkins told me that Sharon
said please let me live so I can have my
baby and Susan told Sharon look [ __ ] I
don't have the immersion on you you're
gonna die so they got rid of all their
bloody clothing put on their regular
clothing and they threw the bloody
clothing over the side of a hill and
they went back to the ranch
Manson spoke to them she went the back [Music]
they slept in everybody slept in the
next morning but in the next evening
afternoon I went into Johnny swartzes
trailer and I was just sitting back and
watching the hobo Kelly in the afternoon
and Sadie came in and by that was about
five or six wanted me to turn the
channel to this to the news she told me
to call tax and I called tax he came to
the trailer and so did a couple other
people and and they all sat on Johnny
Swartz's couch there and watched the
news the first thing that came on was
the Sharon Tate murders so now I knew
that murders had occurred there I had no
idea no clue whatsoever that I was
sitting amongst the murderers someone
said picked a good one or something like
that because it made the first story and
then they laughed they thought that was funny
funny
and I remember when I watched the TV
when I was watching this it scared me
you know scared me and I was thinking
wow I'm not in that world that's good
well you know I had no idea how much in
it I was that night the people Barbara
Hoyt counted as her friends would go
hunting again there was no one safe in
on August the 9th 1969 the so-called
Manson family had slain actress Sharon
Tate and four others in a bloody terror
filled home invasion and the nightmare
was not yet over when they went down
looking for victims the second night
there was no one in LA there was no one
in this whole city that was safe they
were gonna break into a church and kill
the pastor and hang them from the cross
in there but the church was locked
because it was at night those eventually
chosen to die were 44 year-old
supermarket executive Leno LaBianca and
his 38 year old wife Rosemary Manson had
driven in the car with them finally
picked out this house he told them that
last night meaning at the Tate mansion
they had botched it by almost letting a
couple of them escape and not killing
them efficiently so he didn't want that
to happen again so he said you wait here
I'll go into the house he went in and
tied them both up then went back out
told him it's okay now you can go in and
kill them and then he he drove off the
lobby office were trussed up like
literally like a couple of hogs at
slaughter and then they were slaughtered
these were brutal violent terrible
murders Leslie Van Houten told Diane
Lake that stabbing rosemary LaBianca was
fun the more she did it the more she
enjoyed it this Fork was the fork that
Patricia KRENWINKEL used to carve wore
in the abdomen of Leno LaBianca after he
was killed and then stuck it into his
chest when the body was found it had the
this fork sticking out of it
I mean it's it's it's it's it's
nightmarish it's nightmarish among words
written in the victim's blood was the
phrase helter skelter hacks told me that
they'd gone to a love-in and for me not
to mention it and I was kind of jealous
because my dad would never let me go to
a love-in
I wasn't 11 they were killing the LA
bianca's yeah the whole thing just makes
me shake over the course of two bloody
nights Manson's followers had taken the
lives of seven unsuspecting victims
seemingly without conscience even
through their subsequent arrest and trial
trial
most of Manson's entourage would remain
unswervingly loyal to him everything
that Charlie did they did if Charlie
said something they would pear at him if
Charlie put an X on his forehead they'd
come to court the next morning with the
next exits on their foreheads if he put
his swastika on there by God the
swastika was there the next morning
only a few including Barbara Hoyt would
testify against the man they once
thought of as divine so what had driven
so many to willfully engage in such
brutal and bloody crimes was murder in
their nature were Manson and his young
followers born to kill
I couldn't say that that Manson was born
coming out of the womb to kill people
but I think that his upbringing and was
so bad that I I don't doubt for one
minute that it were not conducive to a
good life well-rounded life and I guess
he maybe he just want to make everybody
miserable that's that's the only theory
I could ever really come up with I don't
even think he was thinking of murder or
when he first formed this family but it
was a small evolutionary process and I
think at some point he saw that he could
get them to do anything he wanted them
to do and he had this enormous hostility
for society I know Charlie was treated
horribly as a child you know between the
neglect and abuse he suffered I don't
think that he attracted kids who were
predisposed to kill people I'd hate to
think that the whole group of them were
natural-born killers I just don't think
that's the case do I think these women
had they not met Manson would have gone
on to kill somebody no I don't believe
that there's no indication that that
would have happened Manson now is a
different story whether he killed
somebody in his past or didn't it's
really unclear in dispute but he
certainly has the capability of doing
that but from manses perspective he if
he could get you to kill the person for
him he much preferred to have you do it
because in his mind it's absolving him
then of direct criminal responsibility
he's always working the system and
working other people Manson nothing is
by chance it's all planned and he is a
highly controlled controlling individual
I know when I interviewed Suzan Adkins
she said she was in death row for five
years before Charlie left a brain and
that he had absolute control of her
thoughts and they believed he could read
their minds I think what you had was
delusional leader coupled with
psychedelic drugs and alienated
population of young people and an
environment that reinforced it
I describe it as a gradual
desensitization and conditioning process
and he throughout his life and stolen
cars committed robberies and many other
state and federal crimes and he had
these people had them do do these same
kinds of things we all can have the
capacity to say no just say no charlie I
think he was made into a monster by his
upbringing but he still had a choice so
I don't think it's just nature versus
nurture I think we all have a choice and
responsibility to determine our own
fates the only thing I can think of this
difference between me and those I have
some empathy for the victims they didn't
seem to care they don't care they need
they I've had a real hard time oh here I go
getting I had never gotten past with [Music]
[Music] you
you [Music]
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