the same thing for the device you're an aftermarket
aftermarket
for the device right now some of these
ecosystems are more friendly than others
like the App Store is well known for you
know not approving the app or maybe
competing with you eventually so that
one's a little bit trickier I mean not
to say that means you shouldn't do it
but it's a you know you have to look at
that risk but then you look at these
ecosystems like Salesforce and Heroku
and it's very clear that they are
committed to not doing that to you
and so like Salesforce people complain
like they haven't added features in
years that's exactly right because they
want other people to make money adding
features because that's part of their
ecosystem and they know that's part of
what makes them strong and they act that
way and so as Heroku that's good
that's the kind of ecosystem that's I
love because look it's a marketing
channel sales channel a pricing channel
like there's all kinds of stuff that you
sort of get built-in when it's like that
and I love built-in and the last thing
about market I want to talk about is I
think you should be in a big market and
this is typically something that a VC
you would tell you right you want to be
in a big market with lots where people
are spending billions of dollars and why
does a VC want that well because if you
see wants you to be worth a billion
dollars and that's not possible unless
people are spending billion dollars or
maybe you're making up a new market that
you think is gonna be worth a billion
dollars so that's why they care we don't
care about that at all but I still think
it you should be a big market because
first of all there's lots of niches that
you can be in so you've sliced out this
little customer segment of ok only
people from Wichita Falls who invoice to
other states with sales tax then we're
going to nail it
and there's 462 of them and we can find
them because it's Wichita Falls is how
we can just walk around and find them
and actually that's a pretty good idea
that's pretty good place to get started
and then you can get bigger right so
that's good except the problem with a
small market is that if that little
niche doesn't work there may not be
another thing to go do that's of any
interesting size and so your options are
limited and that's bad because obviously
at the front and even in the middle of
the business you're never sure exactly
what's going to work out and what's next
and all that kind of stuff a big market
has lots of playground lots of niches
that you could if this fails you're here
if this is successful you could expand
to there whatever you have optionality
and optionality is always power the
other thing is your product doesn't have
to be the number one best thing ever for anything
anything
how many CRM tools are there how many
project management tools
there how many time keepers software out
there how many invoice packages are
there like hundreds that are in each
category maybe more and not everyone's
making a bunch of money but actually a
lot of people are making enough money
and that's interesting in a big market
there's so much space the it's okay if
it's not the number one best thing for
everything you can still have a business
and that's good and not necessarily true
in a smaller market and of course just
the fact that it's big and people are
spending billions of dollars means there
is a market at all and like Heaton again
said earlier a many perhaps most
companies fail because they're not
building something where there is a pain
that people will pay for that you can
get to all this other stuff but in a
huge market there is a pain and people
are spending money and you probably
can't get to it right it validates that
off the bat and that's a huge thing and
it's easy to find those customers and if
you change your mind as I did with WP
engine and decided to change it from a
cash machine to screw it I want to swing
for the fences if been in a big market
you still have that option
that's all options good so the third
thing I want to get through is um how do
you acquire customers right so we talked
about charge a lot of money and how and
kinds of markets I like you don't like
and now what about getting customers so
probably the most controversial thing
out I will state is that I do not like
social media in any form for getting
customers I don't think it works very
well I think it's a lot of time I think
people don't acknowledge how much time
and and cost it actually is and I don't
think it it often does not result in a
repeatable business where it's a cash
machine and every month it does it and
every month you can acquire customers
I want to business where I can put in a
dollar and no I'll make four dollars
this year or maybe even now cuz I've
annual prepay right that's what I want
and in social media does not give that
to me it's ever-changing it's hard to
have a voice it's hard to do stuff I
have a blog with 40 thousand readers and
when I launch WP engine a blogging
platform I was sure I'd get maybe 30 50
new customers just out of people going
Oh Jason's doing that I'm gonna switch
to that and see what it is right that's
maybe that's egotistical well it
definitely is egotistical but that's
what I wanted to do so I did and I got
two signups this many out of tens of
thousands of readers and actually I
asked heating on my heating your
really huh your internet-famous and you
launched these little companies and see
them with your stuff what the hell am i
doing wrong means he just goes no it's
always like that it doesn't work move on
just like that but great the you know so
of course you can say well what about
buffer those guys are really good at
social media yes yes yes you know of
course it can be successful especially
if you're really good at it and spend
tons of time on it as they do yes of
course but in general I don't like that
I want I want to know I spend money and
make money that's what I want
and so since that's the model I like
that it's it's very important that you
know how much you're gonna you're gonna
pay per click that could be Adwords or
anything else but one way or another
you're paying for a visit to the website
that's how most online marketing stuff
can be boiled down to one way or another
so it's a good question how much should
I pay per click so this is my answer
which is sort of needs justification my
answer is that you can you take how much
average revenue you get per customer
divided by 25 and that's what you can
pay per click so if your average $50 a
month in revenue you pay $2 a click now
obviously it's like a ton of assumptions
and going on in here I like this is
not what is this so however I didn't
want to spend more time here going
through the math and stuff and besides
you might want to tweak my assumptions
and my numbers come up with your own
sort of better formula for you so I put
up a blog post which I hope is there
maybe someone can check and make sure it
really went up because I didn't oh it is great
great
um and it has the whole derivation of
this and blah blah so I'll just move on
and let you look at that if you care but
the point is you know obviously this
needs to be a data-driven thing what's
my conversion rate how much you know
what's the quality of the traffic
segment by by market like there's a
landing page optimization like there's a million
million
empirical data points you would actually
do to compute this but of course you
don't have any of those data points and
even if you have a couple hundred
customers you don't have enough data for
that to be statistically significant
anyway so you still need a rule of thumb
and so that there it is so now the bad
news so let's say all of this works you
create this little company and you have
no employees are just a few employees
you actually like working with and it's
chunking out 30 40 K a month in profit
maybe that'd be nice
and everything's going well what happens
next it keeps growing that's what it
does that's what companies that are
successful do they don't stop and so if
it keeps growing and you don't hire
people to work on support then you're
gonna give bad customer support is that
okay is that all right for you is that
the kind of company you wanted to build
that you enjoy working on and do you
hire more people and if you do what does
that mean in terms of your job and you
used to just worry about looking after
marketing or just looking after the code
but now you're managing people now it
becomes a thing that wasn't the thing
that you wanted to become that you
didn't set out for and so this is this
is kind of an issue and so so what some
people do there's various ways kind of
out of this you know you can you can
just sell the company for two big who's
the guy that has the the that that book
about selling your company where's where
is he selling your company online
yeah websites area so you go talk to
that guy about selling your website
online and it'll help you cuz he has a
book about so hooray but it's hard
obviously to sell that's easier said
than done and usually don't get that
much money for it sometimes you sell it
if you have a partner if you have an
employee sometimes you can sell to them
a nice trick there is a lot of times
people don't have like a bunch of cash
to give you and so you do some kind of
earn out like you're gonna get five or
ten grand a month or a percentage of
revenue for three years and in that way
the company can afford to pay you off
while you go off and that's not such a
bad thing but of course you also don't
have your company anymore
this is how this is what happened to my
second company IT watchdogs we were I
guess I'm probably running low on time
right Rob how am i doing that time okay
so um so we we had we had we had built
this amazing device for a customer of
ours on a contract basis and it was
wildly successful to them they were
immediately making millions of dollars
more money per year with this thing that
was embedded in their stuff and I
remember we were sitting there in their
conference room in Lincoln Nebraska and
they and they said hey what's stopping
you from building the same product and
selling it to the other hundred power
strip manufacturers
and we thought we said nothing I guess
we don't have an exclusive so yeah
that's not a bad idea it's a four months
later they bought the company that's it
so it happens of course but again it's
hard to it's hard to like make that
happen or plan for that common thing
people say is raise prices I mean shoot
if you don't want more customers and
make each of the customers pay more this
is good and that's true but they're you
know it does also change the nature of
the business so this conference is a
good example this year was more
expensive than last year and so some
people that were a little more of a
wanna preneur and not really you know
not really that serious just sort of
snooping around you charge more and some
of them will drop off and that was
something that was useful for the
conference but if this conference
retained grand like almost no one could
no one almost no one here could or
shouldn't show up for that kind of dough
and who would I don't know but it'd be a
different conference whatever that is be
different so just raising prices also
changes the clientele and that may or
may not be again okay for what you want
to do and again you can decide well
screw this bootstrapping thing I'm gonna
I'll go ahead and raise money that's
fine and that's what we did with WP
engine and so that's cool if you decide
you want to change your journey
completely that's fine
but if you knew this ahead of time then
all this bootstrapping was actually a
bad idea in other words if you wanted to
go do you know if that was your goal in
the first place then you should have
just been on that path and optimizing
yourself and your time and going to
market and all that in the first place
and not sort of gone too slowly at first
and then finally decide to accelerate so
it's a sub optimization anyway and you
should have kind of known that ahead of time
time
maybe so this is but this is this is
this is kind of bad like so what is the
answer here I mean I want this little
company and then if I am successful then
it won't be that thing it's just like
this weird catch-22 and there isn't a
great there isn't a great answer
unfortunately this is one of those
dilemmas you know how you know people
sell their company and then you know Oh
boohoo money doesn't make you happy and
Oh boohoo you don't know what to do next
Oh boohoo like you made ten million
dollars shut up right but actually it's
very real and actually you know people's
happiness some fulfillment is very real
and this is this is going to happen in
some form or fashion to you if you're successful
successful
and then it won't feel like you know oh
that's a high-class problem like yes and
it's your problem and so what you can do
it's hard and so but it's supposed to
why like working at IBM we're not doing
this now it's in our DNA we have to do
this so the only thing I can tell you to
combated is this this guy fail ease was
a Greek business man but then he turned
philosopher which I suppose that's kind
of what people who are in tech now do
right like they get successful business
and then they get blogs and right same
thing anyway so they lease it was asked
famously um what is the hardest thing
and he said to know thyself hardest
thing to me that is the sort of answer
to this dilemma of what is it that I
want from this what am I trying to build
with this company I know trending money
yeah I know I don't want to date you up
right on but what what am I trying to do
for me what's gonna be fulfilling for me
and even that is gonna change over time
unfortunately which means you have to
keep figuring that out and it's the
hardest thing oops
I thought building the company was the
hardest thing nope it's this that's the
hardest thing and so that's again a very
difficult message because there's not
much of an answer in that other than
yeah it's really hard no other than
maybe talking about it and especially
talking about it with folks who have
trod that path before and maybe doing
almost therapy with them to do that
which I'm happy to do I know lots of
lots of other other people are very
happy to do that sort of thing it's a
nice conversation to have um the other
thing he was asked in that same
interview was what is the easiest thing
and he says to give advice which is what
I've been doing for an hour so I'm doing
the easiest thing by telling you do the
hardest thing great easy for me to say
because then I can just wrap and leave
and it's up to you to do all the hard
stuff and so people ask what's my
formula for success which is a stupid
question but if there is an answer then
I've just given it to you but as best I can
can
in this past hour which is that you need
to have predictable acquisition of
customers which give you recurring
revenue that you're using an annual
prepaid to solve all your cash flow
problems with any market that's
conducive to the kind of company that
you're building and the constraints and
advantages that you have like being a
boutique but not not have
a million hours a week and that's how
you create a cash machine I hope
everyone here does exactly that and
thanks for your time you talk a little
bit about any advisor tips you have for
a SAS business that doesn't actually
have subscription revenue but rather a
transactional revenue it's a b2b model
acquisition is more traditional sales
with potentially larger revenue per
customer but much of what I see and read
about in SAS is focused on you know
getting business through clicks and and
writing the enterprise sales yeah an
enterprise SAS company in particular
okay great yes so first of all you said
it's not recurring yes it is it's an
annual contract mostly in enterprise
right maybe quarterly but usually can do
annual and that's good because that's
the annual prepay too and you can do
that in enterprise because their budgets
are typically annual as well so they
could care less and of course it's
easier to do one P o and one invoice per
year and do that with some kind of
automatic renewal that they have to
contact you if they don't want that kind
of thing right um obviously you gotta
charge a lot a lot and there's gonna be
you know you have to deal with M SAS and
all kinds of stuff there the purchase
orders gonna take forever to pay and all
that the other day we got a purchase
order with net 130 on it okay well so so
actually that that's you know rough in
that in that sense so um so obviously
you have a sales office often have a
sales force model with that but to be
clear at smartbear it was almost all
enterprise sales and there was no
salespeople and the way it worked as I
did all the demos and I went on the
sales calls and everybody who was back
at the office was competent in doing all
of those things and then when I had to
hire really competent people because
they had to be able to write code and
talk to customers and do tech support
and after sales questions which means
they had to be really smart and
multi-talented and they were expensive
but I also had a million dollars of
revenue per head because they were
really good and so we could be really
lean not in the lean startup sense I
suppose but in the not spending a lot of
money sense and so I could distribute
the money to them instead which is great
so that's an example of a bootstrap
company in the enterprise space where
you have terrific folks all around so
you don't go
haier haier out and build out a big
enterprise sales team you can do that of
course um it's much harder to it to me
to bootstrap that exactly because of
this time lag and money because to go
get them still you have to do cold calls
or some other kind of outreach or some
conferences or put white papers on stuff
and the sales cycle is often very long
especially because you catch them maybe
in a discovery phase and they're not yet
ready to buy and they're not ready to
select you and then the lawyers get
involved and it just takes a long time
and all that cost you're eating and
humans and time before you get the
purchase order and then still they don't
want to pay and then it'll go out in the
next check run and you know it can be a
long time before you get the dough the
good news of course is once you get it
you often keep those things for five years
years
it was fantastic right but you got to
charge the Lots to sort of get over the
hump of all that other stuff if you do
hire salespeople you got to go to you
often will have to go to more of a like
Commission only but lots of commission
model because you don't have the cash to
float you know a great sales guy for
their you know one hundred hundred or
one fifty one fifty sort of a
compensation model that they might be
expecting you can't say you just have to
say well I hope you dragon a lot of
sailfish and then you can eat a lot
I don't know right so that's hard to get
going so it is harder because of these
constraints which aren't necessarily you
know working but um but you can do it I
did it
um the pilots are another good trick so
you say why don't we start with it often
they want to do pilots anyway depending
on the product but let's just try it
with thirty seats see how that goes
maybe you can turn that around a lot
faster with a smaller budget and um and
then you get some cash flow going and
some relationship going and then go many
of the transactions we did were like
that our average transaction was twelve
thousand dollars but on the first
transaction but our average total
transaction was sixty thousand because
over time they'd buy more sometimes even
six and seven figures over the course of
you know year and a half or so
and so that kind of like get in there
and then go get more which sales people
call land and expand is not a bad model
either and helps you get a little more
cash flow I mean this is a whole topic
really so I hope some of that helps or
answered your question I know I know a
lot of
I'm coders that have products don't
necessarily take advantage of affiliate
programs how do you feel about that um I
think there's a lot of products for
which affiliate programs are great not
Enterprise but um we do pretty well with
affiliates and at first we did not we
didn't do a good job when we first
launched them and then we relaunched it
with ShareASale and we kind of did a
better job and in reaching out
personally to affiliates and especially
some of the larger ones and so on to try
to make it work giving them special
coupons much like the ones I just said
those but I really like it and if you're
gonna do affiliates I think first of all
you need it you need to pay the
affiliate a lot because they encourage
them to do it and especially the bigger
affiliates do get paid a lot and so you
won't get their attention unless you're
spending a lot of money with them at the
same time that's a big cash flow thing
because they get their money quickly
like typically in 45 days so if you're
paying an affiliate two hundred three
hundred dollars there's a lot I mean
most affiliate programs are more like 30
bucks and that's fine but you won't get
a lot of attention but if you're
charging a lot of money then you can pay
the affiliate a lot see isn't that
better to charge a lot of money it opens
up options but also you need that annual
prepay because it's so much money that
you're paying so quickly to them and so
again I would couple that with special
coupons for them to encourage the annual
and then you're back to good from a cash
flow perspective but in general I do
think it depends on the business there
are things like the one we're in and
hosting or in WordPress where the a ton
of companies who make a lot of money
through affiliate sales so it sort of
stands to reason that we could - and
there's other areas where it's not true
and so you'll just have to see but
certainly the affiliate doesn't get paid
unless you know they say you get a sale
so it seems to me you could certainly
make the math work and then either the
affiliate program will work or it won't
and either you'll get better at it or
not but either way you're not gonna pay
them till you get a sale so it's pretty
easy to make sure that equation works
and then you know then give it a try but
if it does work it's incredibly powerful
you want to talk about predictable
because those affiliates it's their job
to get more money every month right so
you have these people who themselves
it's it's in their interest to try to
send you new customers every month and
that's great that's that's exactly the
kind of predictable cash machine that
you want so in that sense I really like
affiliate sales
and one final note of fear on that is
there's a lot of shady affiliates and if
you ever go to Affiliate conference you
kind of feel like you need to take a
bath afterwards uh-huh there it's a lot
of them are are shady and so also you'll
get people if you're not if you're not
controlling who actually is able to do
the affiliate program and kind of
vetting them you'll be spread all kinds
of stuff that probably is not good for
your brand or even for sales or any of
those things and so you may or may not
care about that I mean may or may not be
interesting to us and it worked WP
engine we care about our reputation
quite a lot we trade on that reputation
of service and attitude and all that
kind of stuff and so it's important to
us that that not be the case we even
don't do certain SEO things even stuff
that's kind of gray hat just because what if that kind of looked bad so
what if that kind of looked bad so because we value that we are careful
because we value that we are careful about affiliates but you may or may not
about affiliates but you may or may not care and we know one thing that you
care and we know one thing that you regret doing or perhaps we're not doing
regret doing or perhaps we're not doing on your business journey man all kinds
on your business journey man all kinds of stuff all of the time I think you're
of stuff all of the time I think you're not honest if you don't say that right
doing or not doing I mean anybody that looks back over you know a year and
looks back over you know a year and can't and says like everything was
can't and says like everything was perfect I didn't make any mistakes
perfect I didn't make any mistakes you know not true I guess one thing I
you know not true I guess one thing I would say is if I look at a pattern that
would say is if I look at a pattern that I keep repeating that I have to be
I keep repeating that I have to be careful about so the things I'm not
careful about so the things I'm not really learning about and therefore I
really learning about and therefore I really regret it because if you make
really regret it because if you make that mistake the first time you can't
that mistake the first time you can't really regret it you say I made the best
really regret it you say I made the best choice I could at the time and let's
choice I could at the time and let's move on right but if you make it
move on right but if you make it repeatedly then maybe you start
repeatedly then maybe you start regretting that you're not getting
regretting that you're not getting better at it I guess two things there
better at it I guess two things there one is not getting rid of someone fast
one is not getting rid of someone fast enough that needed to go almost always
enough that needed to go almost always culturally based very rare that it's
culturally based very rare that it's skills based it's usually cultural based
skills based it's usually cultural based because people do poison that well and
because people do poison that well and that could just be a consultant it could
that could just be a consultant it could be employee it could be any of those
be employee it could be any of those kinds of things but that's really
kinds of things but that's really important and no one ever says well we
important and no one ever says well we fired that person too quickly no one
fired that person too quickly no one ever says that but everyone has a story
ever says that but everyone has a story of when they didn't fire someone soon
of when they didn't fire someone soon enough
enough so that's a mistake that I probably
so that's a mistake that I probably continue to make um and it's a constant
continue to make um and it's a constant thing and again even if you don't have
thing and again even if you don't have employees that could be true of a
employees that could be true of a consultant that you kind of feel may be
consultant that you kind of feel may be taking advantage of you or isn't really
taking advantage of you or isn't really working out but you're sort of well but
working out but you're sort of well but they're engaged so I'll just like
they're engaged so I'll just like there's there's lots of examples of that
there's there's lots of examples of that kind of thing I regret not staying true
kind of thing I regret not staying true to what I felt was the right thing to do
to what I felt was the right thing to do and that's in lots of different
and that's in lots of different situations
situations um yeah like the affiliates a weirdo
um yeah like the affiliates a weirdo feel like I'm kind of I'm kind of skeevy
feel like I'm kind of I'm kind of skeevy about having this person promoting my
about having this person promoting my thing should I do that or not and to me
thing should I do that or not and to me especially when you're building a
especially when you're building a self-funded company in which your
self-funded company in which your identity is so tied up in the company
identity is so tied up in the company itself I always regret not following
itself I always regret not following what I think is the right thing how to
what I think is the right thing how to treat people how to treat people coming
treat people how to treat people coming in coming out um the standards that you
in coming out um the standards that you set up inside the company for yourself
set up inside the company for yourself the customers for the product for other
the customers for the product for other people that you work with for hearing
people that you work with for hearing something that someone says and not like
something that someone says and not like and not kind of standing up for it and
and not kind of standing up for it and saying no that's not acceptable here
saying no that's not acceptable here it's not it's not funny it's not okay
it's not it's not funny it's not okay not doing that often enough the all
not doing that often enough the all kinds of things like that of I know I
kinds of things like that of I know I feel right now this is wrong and I'm not
feel right now this is wrong and I'm not acting strong enough to in to make this
acting strong enough to in to make this known to everyone and to say no this is
known to everyone and to say no this is what I'm building this is what we're
what I'm building this is what we're doing this is who we are I always regret
doing this is who we are I always regret not doing that after the fact so you
not doing that after the fact so you mentioned earlier about the little
mentioned earlier about the little formula of calculating your how much you
formula of calculating your how much you can afford per click so I noticed that
can afford per click so I noticed that was like a $2 $2 per click right so I'm
was like a $2 $2 per click right so I'm curious for wpengine or are you actually
curious for wpengine or are you actually being able to get that sort of cost per
being able to get that sort of cost per click or what are you doing no we can
click or what are you doing no we can spend even more so again the real answer
spend even more so again the real answer there is you measure everything all
there is you measure everything all throughout the funnel and you can
throughout the funnel and you can segment you segment out the cost to
segment you segment out the cost to acquire a customer by by the marketing
acquire a customer by by the marketing channel and was that there was an
channel and was that there was an affiliate there was a sales assisted was
affiliate there was a sales assisted was your a coupon because that makes it cost
your a coupon because that makes it cost more and that the customer stick around
more and that the customer stick around or did they cancel and we even measure
or did they cancel and we even measure stuff like and how much server costs are
stuff like and how much server costs are they costing how much support costs I
they costing how much support costs I think we have all of that and so for
think we have all of that and so for every customer we have all of that is we
every customer we have all of that is we have all this analysis that's very
have all this analysis that's very detailed and per philia and per channel
detailed and per philia and per channel and jiù jiù jiù jiù right um and so
and jiù jiù jiù jiù right um and so we're very precise about how the
we're very precise about how the marketing campaigns are working what's
marketing campaigns are working what's the payback period and so on that is the
the payback period and so on that is the correct thing to do but you know we have
correct thing to do but you know we have you know we sign we're in the four
you know we sign we're in the four figures of new customers per month so we
figures of new customers per month so we have a lot of data right so we can do
have a lot of data right so we can do all that statistically and actually have
all that statistically and actually have something also since we're shooting the
something also since we're shooting the moon now also we're willing to spend
moon now also we're willing to spend even more money than there might be you
even more money than there might be you know then you might think in order to
know then you might think in order to get customers and so we're that's even
get customers and so we're that's even more because we just want the customers
more because we just want the customers because we know what to do with them and
because we know what to do with them and that's valuable to us another thing is
that's valuable to us another thing is we are so good at word-of-mouth and
we are so good at word-of-mouth and social media and the consultant channel
social media and the consultant channel that most of our new signups are
that most of our new signups are actually without advertising at all but
actually without advertising at all but what that means is we can spend that
what that means is we can spend that much more acquiring through advertising
much more acquiring through advertising because on average it's still very cheap
because on average it's still very cheap and so we can afford against it so even
and so we can afford against it so even if we lose some money on some things
if we lose some money on some things just the fact that we have the customer
just the fact that we have the customer they might tell a friend
they might tell a friend they might upgrade later and so on just
they might upgrade later and so on just having a customer is it has a value and
having a customer is it has a value and financial value even over time even if
financial value even over time even if it's a little more difficult to measure
it's a little more difficult to measure all of that value it is true and so we
all of that value it is true and so we can spend even more so we measure all
can spend even more so we measure all this and we do it absolutely empirically
this and we do it absolutely empirically so that we know that and so with that
so that we know that and so with that we're pointing out is until you are
we're pointing out is until you are signing up a thousand people a month and
signing up a thousand people a month and are measuring all this stuff even if you
are measuring all this stuff even if you are measuring it you still don't have
are measuring it you still don't have enough data to really say and things are
enough data to really say and things are gonna fluctuate a lot week to week month
gonna fluctuate a lot week to week month to month and so on and so until you have
to month and so on and so until you have enough data to actually use data I had
enough data to actually use data I had this sort of assumptions in process
this sort of assumptions in process which actually came from other surveys
which actually came from other surveys and other things so that these
and other things so that these assumptions themselves seem correct in
assumptions themselves seem correct in the main and and and so so I that's why
the main and and and so so I that's why I like that formula but it's only
I like that formula but it's only because without data you have to have
because without data you have to have some rule of thumb and this is my best
some rule of thumb and this is my best effort at providing anyone with one that
effort at providing anyone with one that that's it's logical
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