it look like um we talk a lot about this in in you know romantic relationships
in in you know romantic relationships what does it look like between friends I
what does it look like between friends I mean friends already have these sort of
mean friends already have these sort of dynamics of um you know there can be
dynamics of um you know there can be jealousy between friends and things so
jealousy between friends and things so what are the nuances um on these
what are the nuances um on these friendships with narcissists it's
friendships with narcissists it's interesting because I just had a podcast
interesting because I just had a podcast interview this morning on female
interview this morning on female friendship narcissist so you know how
friendship narcissist so you know how that shows up in relationships and it's
that shows up in relationships and it's the same thing it you just translate it
the same thing it you just translate it into a friendship versus a romance but
into a friendship versus a romance but it's the same process there's often love
it's the same process there's often love bombing this incredible connection that
bombing this incredible connection that you have this trust and then slowly the
you have this trust and then slowly the relationship turns and becomes more
relationship turns and becomes more controlling and more more abusive to you
controlling and more more abusive to you often I think almost it's worse than a
often I think almost it's worse than a friendship to be honest with you because
friendship to be honest with you because you you as this PO person pointed out I
you you as this PO person pointed out I was interviewing this morning Sabrina
was interviewing this morning Sabrina was pointing out is that you trust
was pointing out is that you trust friends with things that you don't
friends with things that you don't always trust a romantic partner you
always trust a romantic partner you divulge things that you don't always
divulge things that you don't always tell your family you're you're really
tell your family you're you're really giving this person a lot of animation
giving this person a lot of animation and you don't realize that they may be
and you don't realize that they may be working against you or that they may not
working against you or that they may not be a safe individual I know for me
be a safe individual I know for me here's the part that was really painful
here's the part that was really painful about my history is I'm autistic I had a
about my history is I'm autistic I had a real rough time making relationships as
real rough time making relationships as a child I didn't fit in very well I felt
a child I didn't fit in very well I felt very lonely I it perpetuated an
very lonely I it perpetuated an adulthood I thought somehow getting a
adulthood I thought somehow getting a degree and being educated would somehow
degree and being educated would somehow make things better now it made me then
make things better now it made me then the token psychologist that people like
the token psychologist that people like to pull out and say I know her so it
to pull out and say I know her so it really wasn't an authentic relationship
really wasn't an authentic relationship it was more being used more
it was more being used more transactional so when I met this
transactional so when I met this individual who just seemed to be so
individual who just seemed to be so accepting so really liked me a lot it
accepting so really liked me a lot it was intoxicating to me it's something
was intoxicating to me it's something that I have not really experienced on
that I have not really experienced on that level before but then I I forgot
that level before but then I I forgot what is too good to be true probably
what is too good to be true probably isn't real and and I got into this
isn't real and and I got into this relationship so unfortunately I feel
relationship so unfortunately I feel like that kind of primed me there were a
like that kind of primed me there were a lot of things that primed me for that
lot of things that primed me for that Rel I mean I was widowed too there was a
Rel I mean I was widowed too there was a lot of things that primed me for my
lot of things that primed me for my vulnerability to that toxic person but
vulnerability to that toxic person but but getting used to bad behavior does
but getting used to bad behavior does make it harder to see bad
Behavior there's there's so much there um you said maybe worse with friends too
um you said maybe worse with friends too you know you share so much um another
you know you share so much um another element back kind of back to the Sandra
element back kind of back to the Sandra Brown stuff I think there's a tactic
Brown stuff I think there's a tactic that um that the pedophiles use in
that um that the pedophiles use in things um twinship or twinning um I
things um twinship or twinning um I imagine between friends too that you can
imagine between friends too that you can you could really have a sense of like
you could really have a sense of like this is my this is my brother or this is
this is my this is my brother or this is my sister like we or we are like twins
my sister like we or we are like twins right um how how can that be used or is
right um how how can that be used or is it yeah it well it just develops Rapport
it yeah it well it just develops Rapport and Trust so that you end up feeling
and Trust so that you end up feeling like they get me and that you're going
like they get me and that you're going to prioritize them over maybe other
to prioritize them over maybe other relationships they sort of get elevated
relationships they sort of get elevated and there's this the same thing that
and there's this the same thing that happens in a toxic romantic relationship
happens in a toxic romantic relationship happens they isolate you um they start
happens they isolate you um they start to like manage you know gas light you
to like manage you know gas light you around your feelings they prioritize
around your feelings they prioritize themselves over other people but often
themselves over other people but often because we're so emotionally invested we
because we're so emotionally invested we don't recognize the toxicity we just
don't recognize the toxicity we just sort of experience this as man they're
sort of experience this as man they're just really really they like me so much
just really really they like me so much and we're best friends but we don't
and we're best friends but we don't realize that there's these elements
realize that there's these elements aren't good it's yeah it's hard to
aren't good it's yeah it's hard to explain because it's it's
explain because it's it's so it's it's so uh Insidious it's yeah
so it's it's so uh Insidious it's yeah I'm I'm learning this more and more that
I'm I'm learning this more and more that there's there are ideas and there are
there's there are ideas and there are patterns and then there's Nuance on the
patterns and then there's Nuance on the patterns one that I'd like to go a
patterns one that I'd like to go a little deeper on you talked about um you
little deeper on you talked about um you know prioritizing this friend over other
know prioritizing this friend over other relationships now a narcissist often has
relationships now a narcissist often has a fan club so if you get into a close
a fan club so if you get into a close friendship with a narcissist you can be
friendship with a narcissist you can be in their fan club and you cannot realize
in their fan club and you cannot realize it seems you you could be isolated from
it seems you you could be isolated from people who are Outsiders but not appear
people who are Outsiders but not appear socially isolated you're you're more in
socially isolated you're you're more in a cult is is that kind of how this is
a cult is is that kind of how this is that a Nuance on the isolation yeah it
that a Nuance on the isolation yeah it is because think of for example the mean
is because think of for example the mean girl who's the bully she'll trct other
girl who's the bully she'll trct other people who want to be in who like the
people who want to be in who like the power of feeling special so they will
power of feeling special so they will then become part of her Entourage in
then become part of her Entourage in order for them to be part of the click
order for them to be part of the click and make sure that they're not on the
and make sure that they're not on the out or even think about the queen bee
out or even think about the queen bee there's another example of a female
there's another example of a female narcissist archetype she gets to sort of
narcissist archetype she gets to sort of dictate what everybody does around her
dictate what everybody does around her and you comply because you want her
and you comply because you want her approval it feels better to have her
approval it feels better to have her approval than to have her contempt so
approval than to have her contempt so they control a lot by so I guess what
they control a lot by so I guess what you're starting to help me identify the
you're starting to help me identify the difference too because I'm having a I'm
difference too because I'm having a I'm trying to think rapidly on my feet here
trying to think rapidly on my feet here what's the underlying Dynamic I've not
what's the underlying Dynamic I've not thought a lot about this so I I think
thought a lot about this so I I think the big thing is they appeal to to your
the big thing is they appeal to to your need for belonging intensely your need
need for belonging intensely your need for connection and so you're willing to
for connection and so you're willing to sacrifice control you're willing to
sacrifice control you're willing to sacrifice even your own integrity and
sacrifice even your own integrity and standards in order to fit in and feel
standards in order to fit in and feel accepted by this person and not realize
accepted by this person and not realize that because that it's so intoxicating
that because that it's so intoxicating the sense of being seen by this
the sense of being seen by this individual although you're actually not
individual although you're actually not seen it feels like you're being seen but
seen it feels like you're being seen but you're not really being seen but by but
you're not really being seen but by but that that attention by the individual is
that that attention by the individual is so feels so intoxicated that you're
so feels so intoxicated that you're willing to sacrifice yourself you're
willing to sacrifice yourself you're willing to sacrifice what matters most
willing to sacrifice what matters most to you to have this attention yeah yeah
to you to have this attention yeah yeah and then you know you could sacrifice
and then you know you could sacrifice old relationships and and be thrust into
old relationships and and be thrust into new ones and feel like you're part of
new ones and feel like you're part of the the club The Mean Girls whatever it
the the club The Mean Girls whatever it is exactly what role does do physical
is exactly what role does do physical space have in this I've heard ideas
space have in this I've heard ideas about how um maybe taking people on a
about how um maybe taking people on a trip or something like that um can also
trip or something like that um can also U make them more exposed to The
U make them more exposed to The Narcissist it can I've never made that
Narcissist it can I've never made that connection before but I I certainly can
connection before but I I certainly can see how that works that way
see how that works that way that that giving them special gifts
that that giving them special gifts giving them um taking them on trips you
giving them um taking them on trips you know special favors that would
know special favors that would definitely would build a sense of
definitely would build a sense of specialness because we all basically
specialness because we all basically hunger see here's the problem with
hunger see here's the problem with narcissism and why I think we find it
narcissism and why I think we find it extremely compelling not only just
extremely compelling not only just because it's very toxic and mess with us
because it's very toxic and mess with us because there's a part of all of us that
because there's a part of all of us that wishes we special yeah there's deep you
wishes we special yeah there's deep you know cohat talked about this that
know cohat talked about this that there's two basic needs that we all
there's two basic needs that we all innately have we want to be seen and
innately have we want to be seen and understood he calls that mirroring not
understood he calls that mirroring not to be confused confused with a
to be confused confused with a narcissist mirring you but he calls it
narcissist mirring you but he calls it mirring that's Attunement another way of
mirring that's Attunement another way of thinking it's emotional Attunement and
thinking it's emotional Attunement and the other one is to be the apple of the
the other one is to be the apple of the eye that's what he calls it and that is
eye that's what he calls it and that is to be the one unique special person to
to be the one unique special person to someone and ideally we should that
someone and ideally we should that should be our parents think that we are
should be our parents think that we are per perfection in ourselves because we
per perfection in ourselves because we are theirs and they are ours and there's
are theirs and they are ours and there's this wonderful experience of delight in
this wonderful experience of delight in each other we need to have that that's a
each other we need to have that that's a that's a core need for all of us what
that's a core need for all of us what happens in a narcissistic relation ship
happens in a narcissistic relation ship during the love bombing phase is you
during the love bombing phase is you re-experience it through the
re-experience it through the idealization not realizing it's not real
idealization not realizing it's not real and it's actually I'm just making this
and it's actually I'm just making this up on the Fly you're the apple of their
up on the Fly you're the apple of their eye you're never it's not it's not an
eye you're never it's not it's not an actual real thing there's no mutuality
actual real thing there's no mutuality to this it's an imaginary experience of
to this it's an imaginary experience of which they they see you as the idealized
which they they see you as the idealized caricature to their narrative not really
caricature to their narrative not really you they don't see
you they don't see you and that re-experience are you
you and that re-experience are you saying the victim would re-experience
saying the victim would re-experience what they're what they're sort of hoping
what they're what they're sort of hoping to get in in that childhood Apple of the
to get in in that childhood Apple of the eye parental love thing but it's but
eye parental love thing but it's but it's a false experience exactly and does
it's a false experience exactly and does does that regress the victim
does that regress the victim no that's does it cause regression um I
no that's does it cause regression um I guess maybe it could I mean because yeah
guess maybe it could I mean because yeah I guess it does because what we do is we
I guess it does because what we do is we succumb to it so that to me that would
succumb to it so that to me that would be regression right okay we move into a
be regression right okay we move into a dependency with this individ yeah
dependency with this individ yeah actually we do we move into a dependency
actually we do we move into a dependency with this individual right and then
with this individual right and then become and then we we place their
become and then we we place their opinion above our own so we lose
opinion above our own so we lose ourselves we sacrifice that's what we're
ourselves we sacrifice that's what we're doing we're sacrificing the idealization
doing we're sacrificing the idealization thinking it's being the Apple the
thinking it's being the Apple the experience for our own integrity and
experience for our own integrity and self which yeah right that's regressive
self which yeah right that's regressive experience
experience okay man seems impossible to be I mean I
okay man seems impossible to be I mean I so I've interviewed a guy named Robert
so I've interviewed a guy named Robert Green who wrote a book called The Art of
Green who wrote a book called The Art of Seduction um I love him I'd love to
Seduction um I love him I'd love to interview him he's amazing man yeah
interview him he's amazing man yeah interesting guy and um you know that
interesting guy and um you know that that's a that's a pickup artist handbook
that's a that's a pickup artist handbook and uh one of the chapters is called
and uh one of the chapters is called effect or regression and it just seems
effect or regression and it just seems that the narcissist game is is the
that the narcissist game is is the seduction game but with no conscience um
seduction game but with no conscience um with a sort of superhuman energy and it
with a sort of superhuman energy and it it seems so devastating and so hard to
it seems so devastating and so hard to overcome um do do you have any tips for
overcome um do do you have any tips for being narcissist
proof I I'm not for sure we completely can ever be yeah that's the hard news is
can ever be yeah that's the hard news is that because they is is as Don Hennessy
that because they is is as Don Hennessy says if you haven't had it happen it's
says if you haven't had it happen it's just not met a sophisticated enough
just not met a sophisticated enough Predator
Predator yet so there is always going to be
yet so there is always going to be somebody out there who's better at it
somebody out there who's better at it that's how Bernie maid off was able to
that's how Bernie maid off was able to be successful or any of the other
be successful or any of the other terrible people that we talk a lot about
terrible people that we talk a lot about that just really make a big impact
that just really make a big impact publicly think of P didy for
publicly think of P didy for example but but I do think what helps is
example but but I do think what helps is to really know ourselves and to know our
to really know ourselves and to know our flaws understand our vulnerabilities
flaws understand our vulnerabilities know where know what makes you
know where know what makes you emotionally hungry what what where are
emotionally hungry what what where are your losses in your life if you can
your losses in your life if you can understand I was I lately been reading
understand I was I lately been reading Dr romany's book um it's not you she
Dr romany's book um it's not you she talks about know your backstory if you
talks about know your backstory if you can know your backstory and where your
can know your backstory and where your point I always say it's like this you
point I always say it's like this you don't walk into a grocery store hungry
don't walk into a grocery store hungry don't walk into a relationship hungry
don't walk into a relationship hungry right but the challenges can we
right but the challenges can we recognize when we're walking into a
recognize when we're walking into a relationship hungry most of the time we
relationship hungry most of the time we don't but to the degree that you know
don't but to the degree that you know yourself you can then know your
yourself you can then know your vulnerabilities and you can be more
vulnerabilities and you can be more alert to these types of tactics I
alert to these types of tactics I definitely do think it's helpful to know
definitely do think it's helpful to know what they are I know people like why is
what they are I know people like why is all this attention in the media aren't
all this attention in the media aren't we overt talking about it no well you
we overt talking about it no well you can only recognize something by knowing
can only recognize something by knowing something that you should recognize you
something that you should recognize you know we do need education it's really
know we do need education it's really really important but I but learning it
really important but I but learning it and not also being a student of yourself
and not also being a student of yourself doesn't get you a whole lot further
doesn't get you a whole lot further ahead you need to do both you need to
ahead you need to do both you need to know it but also know
know it but also know yourself you mentioned you know people
yourself you mentioned you know people who had a fall like Bernie mid off is is
who had a fall like Bernie mid off is is there a limit on how far that these
there a limit on how far that these these people can go it starts to seem
these people can go it starts to seem like you know if a narcissist is
like you know if a narcissist is managing the reality that they're
managing the reality that they're feeding the people around them that they
feeding the people around them that they do they need to keep contact with those
do they need to keep contact with those many people or can they sort of
many people or can they sort of establish um you know lieutenants who
establish um you know lieutenants who then go and do their bidding and and can
then go and do their bidding and and can they you know effectively build a cult I
they you know effectively build a cult I mean you know cult leaders are often
mean you know cult leaders are often narcissist teams um and and use
narcissist teams um and and use hierarchy or does it always require
hierarchy or does it always require their direct attention is that limited I
their direct attention is that limited I I I just wonder how far it all goes well
I I just wonder how far it all goes well I think of Hitler you know he's a good
I think of Hitler you know he's a good example he had lieutenants who then
example he had lieutenants who then acted on his behalf that so I do think
acted on his behalf that so I do think it's possible I think that's a hard
it's possible I think that's a hard structure you have to be a unique person
structure you have to be a unique person to be able to to have people work like
to be able to to have people work like that for you and work in your direction
that for you and work in your direction so I I don't generally they think that
so I I don't generally they think that they usually are that sophisticated to
they usually are that sophisticated to do that but the other this is the other
do that but the other this is the other hard truth that I think that we you you
hard truth that I think that we you you reminded me of another myth that we
reminded me of another myth that we often associate with narcissists and
often associate with narcissists and that is or with Psychopaths and
that is or with Psychopaths and sociopaths is that there is a bottom
sociopaths is that there is a bottom there's a limit to what they'll do no
there's a limit to what they'll do no there's
there's not it's only to what they can get away
not it's only to what they can get away with right if they have no empathy then
with right if they have no empathy then then there there is no limit they will
then there there is no limit they will go to any lengths as long as they can
go to any lengths as long as they can and that's we always assume Civility and
and that's we always assume Civility and there is no civility we need to we need
there is no civility we need to we need to when you're dealing with somebody
to when you're dealing with somebody like that stop thinking there is end
like that stop thinking there is end point there is no end point the end
point there is no end point the end point is
point is destruction the end point is destruction
destruction the end point is destruction so so do you do you advise people often
so so do you do you advise people often to to just cut ties and and get out of
to to just cut ties and and get out of town when they deal with these people
town when they deal with these people even if it's going to totally Rock their
even if it's going to totally Rock their lives yeah if you can you can always I
lives yeah if you can you can always I mean and not every toxic person in my
mean and not every toxic person in my life have I just cut ties with for lots
life have I just cut ties with for lots of complicated reasons I don't think
of complicated reasons I don't think it's always achievable but to the degree
it's always achievable but to the degree that you can I do think that's
that you can I do think that's definitely what the route you should go
definitely what the route you should go I think this the safest route the the
I think this the safest route the the challenge to me is what do we do with
challenge to me is what do we do with all these taxic people when nobody wants
all these taxic people when nobody wants to have anything to do with them I don't
to have anything to do with them I don't know what we're going to do with them
know what we're going to do with them but but yeah I think to degree we can
but but yeah I think to degree we can isolate ourselves and I the other thing
isolate ourselves and I the other thing this came out of Bill Ed's work he has a
this came out of Bill Ed's work he has a new book called uh um the new world of
new book called uh um the new world of adult bullies he talks about we need
adult bullies he talks about we need better consequences I agree with him
better consequences I agree with him totally even Chuck Derry is talking
totally even Chuck Derry is talking about consequences for men with male
about consequences for men with male violence we need to have because what
violence we need to have because what haven't you noticed that they talk their
haven't you noticed that they talk their way out of problems really really well
way out of problems really really well right they're fantastic at it seen I
right they're fantastic at it seen I know it's sort of like this bravado and
know it's sort of like this bravado and a aity and it's an incredible mix and
a aity and it's an incredible mix and but we need to stop as a society we need
but we need to stop as a society we need to stop hold the line and and hold them
to stop hold the line and and hold them accountable and we need to make it
accountable and we need to make it painful because their L their moral
painful because their L their moral development level is on the bottom it's
development level is on the bottom it's only based on consequences it's not on
only based on consequences it's not on any higher principle than that yeah if
any higher principle than that yeah if you if you do cut ties and leave is
you if you do cut ties and leave is there any way that you can leave some
there any way that you can leave some sort of consequence behind is there a is
sort of consequence behind is there a is there a grenade that you can roll behind
there a grenade that you can roll behind you as you as you walk out the door
you as you as you walk out the door there is and that's you becoming your
there is and that's you becoming your best version of
best version of yourself but the narcissist will
yourself but the narcissist will continue to abuse yeah they will
continue to abuse yeah they will continue to abuse but they hate knowing
continue to abuse but they hate knowing that you're doing better okay fair
that you're doing better okay fair enough fair enough um I have a question
enough fair enough um I have a question from one of our listeners uh he goes by
from one of our listeners uh he goes by the online name decentralized gaming
the online name decentralized gaming 0000 and he asks what other
0000 and he asks what other personalities should one be wary of
personalities should one be wary of besides narcissists and how might they
besides narcissists and how might they be recognized there Joe dearo in his
be recognized there Joe dearo in his book for personal or dangerous
book for personal or dangerous personalities identifies F I'm sorry let
personalities identifies F I'm sorry let me say it again Joe Navaro in his book
me say it again Joe Navaro in his book dangerous personality identifies four
dangerous personality identifies four types I highly agree with them they are
types I highly agree with them they are the narcissist the paranoid the
the narcissist the paranoid the antisocial personality disorder and the
antisocial personality disorder and the borderline so how do you recognize them
borderline so how do you recognize them really quick like if the narcissist is a
really quick like if the narcissist is a person who's the only person in the room
person who's the only person in the room and they're going to use you and they're
and they're going to use you and they're kind of they're charismatic and dynamic
kind of they're charismatic and dynamic and you're going to be very attracted
and you're going to be very attracted but they're they're kind of Lawless and
but they're they're kind of Lawless and very in indulgent the the paranoid
very in indulgent the the paranoid person everybody is against them they
person everybody is against them they may believe that you're on the inside
may believe that you're on the inside and you're not but that they have this
and you're not but that they have this they sort of see threats behind
they sort of see threats behind everything
everything and conspiracy theories um they
and conspiracy theories um they suspicious of your behavior whatever
suspicious of your behavior whatever they do they quiz you a lot ask you why
they do they quiz you a lot ask you why and does rapid distrust the antisocial
and does rapid distrust the antisocial personality disorder is a person who's
personality disorder is a person who's highly manipulative extremely glib and
highly manipulative extremely glib and Charming um but there is no conscience
Charming um but there is no conscience No Boundaries and they push on
No Boundaries and they push on everything they're very manipulative
everything they're very manipulative very exploitive and they're ruthless
very exploitive and they're ruthless you'll see them break rules and laws and
you'll see them break rules and laws and then the morine personality disorder is
then the morine personality disorder is tends to be extremely stable they tend
tends to be extremely stable they tend to be very flighty very emotional hot
to be very flighty very emotional hot and cold up down uh close and then
and cold up down uh close and then they're they interpret your behavior is
they're they interpret your behavior is the next moment angry and abandoning
the next moment angry and abandoning there's this this this constant fluidity
there's this this this constant fluidity to the relationship it feels very
to the relationship it feels very extreme very constantly changing so
extreme very constantly changing so those are things to watch out for he
those are things to watch out for he also mentions and I agree is that we
also mentions and I agree is that we tend to think that the one of these
tend to think that the one of these these personalities are kind of insular
these personalities are kind of insular and don't co-occur no that's wrong they
and don't co-occur no that's wrong they frequently co-occur and it's possible to
frequently co-occur and it's possible to have multiple things wrong at the same
have multiple things wrong at the same time you can be ADHD narcissistic and be
time you can be ADHD narcissistic and be depressed that's very possible you could
depressed that's very possible you could also be a narcissist who has borderline
also be a narcissist who has borderline personality traits that's very possible
personality traits that's very possible so he talks about watch for the stacking
so he talks about watch for the stacking of personalities traits on top of each
of personalities traits on top of each other the more that they stack the more
other the more that they stack the more dangerous the individual
dangerous the individual is you mentioned the the borderline
is you mentioned the the borderline being hot and cold too is is there a
being hot and cold too is is there a high element of sexuality with that too
high element of sexuality with that too or is that um is that a histrionic thing
or is that um is that a histrionic thing I'm I'm not quite familiar on where that
I'm I'm not quite familiar on where that line Falls histrionic to me which we
line Falls histrionic to me which we don't see a whole lot of is the sort of
don't see a whole lot of is the sort of the dramatic fainting uh everything's
the dramatic fainting uh everything's kind of hypercondriac it's it's very
kind of hypercondriac it's it's very yeah just imagine exaggerated extremely
yeah just imagine exaggerated extremely exaggerated and they're not a very
exaggerated and they're not a very frequent personality profile that we see
frequent personality profile that we see these days um so I think hypersexuality
these days um so I think hypersexuality is a part of all of them here's how
is a part of all of them here's how here's how I see it shift the narcissist
here's how I see it shift the narcissist is hypersexual in the sense of looking
is hypersexual in the sense of looking for novelty excitement Thrills and
for novelty excitement Thrills and they're using people it's it's also a
they're using people it's it's also a way for them to get you to bond the
way for them to get you to bond the psychopath is using it because they're
psychopath is using it because they're extremely predatory and they love to
extremely predatory and they love to debase you and there's a sadistic
debase you and there's a sadistic element to it the Border Lion's using it
element to it the Border Lion's using it because they just love to be loved and
because they just love to be loved and they're going to rush it because you're
they're going to rush it because you're the best thing they've ever met okay and
the best thing they've ever met okay and then the paranoid not the paranoid
then the paranoid not the paranoid probably wouldn't use it actually and
probably wouldn't use it actually and maybe that's the one person I wouldn't
maybe that's the one person I wouldn't attribute it to the histrionic
attribute it to the histrionic definitely would use it as well but that
definitely would use it as well but that would be used it because you love them
would be used it because you love them so much they want you to adore
so much they want you to adore them yeah
them yeah Dr kri this has been a fascinating
Dr kri this has been a fascinating conversation I have one more question
conversation I have one more question but before I ask it where should people
but before I ask it where should people look for you online they can find me
look for you online they can find me everywhere at Cary macavoy phd.com or
everywhere at Cary macavoy phd.com or Cary macavoy PhD I'm on all the major
Cary macavoy PhD I'm on all the major platforms excellent well we'll put links
platforms excellent well we'll put links to those in the description thank you
to those in the description thank you and Dr Carrie mcaboy my last question is
and Dr Carrie mcaboy my last question is how can we learn to trust others after
how can we learn to trust others after surviving narcissistic abuse
surviving narcissistic abuse slowly very slowly and often you'll feel
slowly very slowly and often you'll feel like you don't trust anybody I hear this
like you don't trust anybody I hear this all the time I don't trust I hate that I
all the time I don't trust I hate that I don't trust no it's you're trusting
don't trust no it's you're trusting you're trusting me you're telling me
you're trusting me you're telling me something confidential right now that's
something confidential right now that's trust what you're doing now is you're
trust what you're doing now is you're vetting people and you're used to doing
vetting people and you're used to doing what's called um unearned you know just
what's called um unearned you know just I'm trying to think of Sandra Brown's
I'm trying to think of Sandra Brown's term she has a way of talking about it
term she has a way of talking about it do you remember how she says it no she
do you remember how she says it no she earn trust versus versus there's another
earn trust versus versus there's another form of trust but we don't now just give
form of trust but we don't now just give trust away people have to they have to
trust away people have to they have to show that they've earned it and when we
show that they've earned it and when we expect that from people it feels foreign
expect that from people it feels foreign it feels like we're being distrusting
it feels like we're being distrusting but the paranoid person is the
but the paranoid person is the distrusting person and that is where
distrusting person and that is where they're highly suspicious and see you
they're highly suspicious and see you know minations behind every possible
know minations behind every possible door we're not doing that we're just not
door we're not doing that we're just not be rushing to relationships not rushing
be rushing to relationships not rushing to disclose the lots of ourselves not
to disclose the lots of ourselves not rushing to be vulnerable so get used to
rushing to be vulnerable so get used to being slow to trust to be to vet people
being slow to trust to be to vet people and see it to me it's almost like
and see it to me it's almost like following a person on the dance floor
following a person on the dance floor they take a step you take a step they
they take a step you take a step they take a step you take a step and it's got
take a step you take a step and it's got to be that mutuality that
to be that mutuality that reciprocity well Dr Carrie mckoy thank
reciprocity well Dr Carrie mckoy thank you so much um for your work and for
you so much um for your work and for this interview and for that final
this interview and for that final message I really appreciate it thank you
message I really appreciate it thank you to help raise awareness about
to help raise awareness about narcissistic abuse please share this
narcissistic abuse please share this video it helps a lot
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