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NMAAHC Oral History Interview: Jamila Jones

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from the Library of Congress and the

Smithsonian National Museum of

culture okay today is Wednesday April 27

2011 we're in Atlanta Georgia at the

Artmore Hotel in midtown Atlanta with

Miss Jamila Jones um to conduct an oral

history for the SMI onian's national

museum of African-American history and

culture project entitled The Civil

Rights history project my name is Joe

manier of the Southern oral history

program at UNCC Chapel Hill and our

videographer is Mr John Bishop Miss

Jones good morning thanks so much for

sitting morning thank you for having me

appreciate your effort to get up with us

um during this Atlanta visit it's really

nice to see you thank you um let me

start today um as we enter enter into a

conversation about um your work in the

southern Freedom Movement um in the '

50s 60s and and and even thereafter um

talk a little bit about about your

family start there can you tell me a

little bit about growing up in uh in

Montgomery and your family your parents

and okay I live with a mother and a

grandmother um I grew up with a sibling

my sister Daris

crow and a brother a little younger

McLoud and I guess key

to the

movement is the fact that my sister and

I rode the montgomer bus

line so we

experienced on a daily basis during

school the harassment that came from the

um bus

driver uh and so I guess that inspired

us or was something in

us that uh made us relate to of course

the montgomer busb guy can you talk a

little bit about um how you came to know

um Miss parks and to join the youth

chapter the local

NAACP uh yes in fact my sister was the

one who introduced me to Mrs pars uh as

we join the end of youth group NAACP

youth group uh my sister was vice

president I was just a member of that

group uh she would have us into her home

we would sit on the

floor and she'd give us bits and pieces

about life actually and people ask quite

often if I remember things that she said

and I do not uh but I know she read from

uh papers from from the uh national

office of the

NAACP and she taught us uh that we were

important I can remember that and that

uh it was key that we uh learned our

rights and that uh voting was an

important aspect of uh our lives and I

can just remember those things about the

conversations that had she had with us

and she also taught us that um it was

important to carry yourself in a good

responsible uh

way uh after we would meet she would

give us uh

certainly uh Miss Jones you mentioned

your sister dor scaw can you talk a

little bit about about her you mentioned

she was vice president and just describe

her a little bit yeah she was like a

leader of the bunch and whatever she did

basically I did uh there was a

difference in Us in that I I was uh

mostly interested in the music portion

of things that happened and she was more

of a the leadership fighter type um movement

movement

person but um she somehow had interest

from a very young age in uh rights and

what was right for you and she led me

down that path so you must have been

about 11 years old when the boycott

began there about I was 11 years old

when the boycott started yeah um what

are some of your you know from this

distance what are your some of your most

Vivid most Central important memories

from that experience I know that um the

youth and this is not often

said had their own kind of individual

movement that we let kind of let

ourselves around what was happening with the

the

movement and that we organized ourselves

to get across what we call across town

uh when we were no longer riding the

buses and we we had to find our own way for

for

survival my sister being the leader that

she was wouldn't allow us ever to go and

get a ride uh she said we'd be taking a

space from an adult and we were going to

walked

and some measure of success was realized

in some measure on that narrow question

of of

busing what was your

feeling it was a joyous feeling of

course and no longer we felt that we had

to take the

abuse uh that we had experienced on

those buses since I was 6 years old cuz

I started to ride the bus at age

6 and had done that to age 11 and we

found our ways to survive through that

uh it was piercing to see adults have to

leave uh the bus and go around to pay

their money and then get off the bus and

come to the back of the uh

bus uh I almost never had to do that

because we were the first stop

so we always found ourselves with a

seat but curious as we were there were

times we tested to see what would happen

if we sat in the front of the

bus and we

did and uh then they would ask us of

course when one white lady got on the

bus I can never forget her she had red

hair long hair and when she entered the

bus we would have to get up even

though um there were a number of seats

and she was the only white to get on that

that

bus so I think that was so piercing to

us that it never I never forgot it and

uh when the bus Bo cart started of

course that lived within me and I knew

that I would walk 300 and

what however many days actually did that

uh it would

take and to a six-year-old you just

basically are so curious about why is it

that we have to get

up that often I would sit behind

her and uh she would choose the same

seat each time she got on the bus this

white woman this white uh woman I don't

know her name I just remember her face

and her red hair but when she got on the

bus I decided um several times s to just

feel her hair see if I could put my

little fingers uh on the top of the seat

to see if it was a difference what is

the difference with her and the rest of

us and I did I would just kind of feel

that hair like it was an accident I

don't know what I concluded from that

except that it just gave me a feeling

that uh I feel she's really no different

this hair ha is not so much different

from ours and um that was just my little

childhood curiosity and how I answered it

sure um so that just that one white

lady put such uh curiosity in

me and I wanted to answer that so much

that I uh knew that I was going to walk

the length of the time it would take for

us to get to uh our go yeah um when and

how did you start singing started

singing We were um Elementary School

students at Alabama state laboratory high

high

school and uh each

Friday we would have a

and we formed this group uh three girls

uh actually was four four of us from the

beginning form this group so that we could

could

compete each Friday in the uh Talent

contest somehow it was something in us

that made us want to do freedom

songs and I can't answer today why we

chose that because we're about the same

age as um di Ross but when we went

outside to practice we practiced freedom

songs and that's what we would

sing so when the Montgomery Bus Boycott

came we formed this group at uh around

the age N9 and 10

uh we would kind of

ready and so because of the songs we

were singing it lent itself to the

Movement we were asked to come to sing

at practically every tea that was held

in my government you know uh during that

time they had a lot of tees that raised

money for the movement as well as other

things for the

churches and they would invite us to

come and I felt like uh it couldn't be a

te or they felt like uh they couldn't

have a tea if we didn't come so we went

all over town to tease on Sunday to

participate and we were kind of carrying

the message of the

movement um through our

songs and we were relevant for the time

and that's why they called on us so you

were this was a group of four girls all

11 12 years old I guess we were um in

that moment and in that moment we were

11 do you remember the names of the

other girls I do it was glad as Carter

because we formed the group and we

uh all through he of school we kept the

group uh Gladis

Carter and many Hendrick now MC we were

the three girls who

lasted among the

four uh we decided we were going to not

only practice at school but we would

practice at each other's homes and

that's how the fourth girl dropped out

because her parents wouldn't allow her

to each evening or the evenings that we

had set for practice

and thus it became the four three did

you all I'm sorry did you also sing in

church we did we were singing church but

because we mostly sang at school at first

first

because uh we all went to different

churches which was your church uh mine

Church was any of the girls um at uh

Reverend King's

church uh none of us was were uh members

yeah of Reverend King's church Manny MCC

was a member of uh Reverend aanats

church I was with

um revend say C

say um who

was had the first meeting for the

Montgomery Bus sport c um and he was

very active

as a matter of fact there are things in

your life that cause you to this I guess

these s total of things cause you to be

what whatever you are in life and uh he

talked each Sunday about accomplishments

they had

made uh toward needs of the black

community and I would hear what he had

to say uh so that was one of the

influences that I had in terms of my

life and uh fighting for freedom of

struggle yeah yeah um let's see you must

have entered high school around

57 50 fall of 57 fall of

58 I I finished in 62 yeah okay um and

can you describe

um the I think the late 50s because at

some point if if um I've read a couple

different accounts but um one indicates

that you traveled to Highlander Folk School

School

I did but that was before high school it

was like Junior High I think it was but

um I was

singing along with the uh my sister

being very active we were selected to go

to do a kind of a like a cultural

Exchange in terms of our music we would

share the kind of songs that we were

singing and gu Caro headed up that um the

the

workshops and people from around the

world actually because we met people

from Africa there uh would share the

kind of movement songs they were

doing it was because we our repertoire

of songs of freedom songs were uh great and

and

extensive that he asked that we come to

um um New York to do uh freedom songs to

raise money for the movement Southern

movement and that's how we got to con

Hall with RM shadsworth and others to do

that uh

fundraiser and from that came one of the

first albums of Civil Right

songs uh to be uh used uh

for fundraising and that kind of thing

and so we were uh the Montgomery

Montgomery

Tri we did not have a name we went all

over Montgomery before that time never

thought about a name uh they would just

say the girls we got to have the girls

or the girls this and when we got there

um they say for this album you got to

have a name so we debated and debate

about what could be our name and came up

with the Montgomery go P

Trio how old were you at that time when

you went to New York I want to say I

often you know around 16 yeah just into

high school yes

yes

um can you can you talk me through the

your your high school years because

obviously the the movement will shift

into a very active phase while you were

in high school and um uh the um Freedom

singers will come into being towards the

end of your high school year so I'm

interested in how you move through those

years singing protesting as an activist

yes and uh what happened is that

Montgomery when you have a large scale

movement like that

um quite often there are lot of

wounds that

occur so Montgomery um

adults could not sit down sometimes in

the same room let alone talking

about a movement and so the youth were

used so when James Beville and all the

people came into Montgomery and by the

way we did meet James bille and uh

Bernard Lafayette were the other group

that came to uh do the concert at con

Hall so we had already met them but they

came into Montgomery

first with the uh freedom

riters and so because we knew them we

had gone to uh Rend ab's house and

waiting to get the C to go pick up the

Freedom Riders as they came in because

at that time we still active in movement

and still

singing and Mrs abatha uh said uh we

don't have anybody to pick them up now a

lot of adults will tell you that they

did but that day we stole a car we said

well oh we got to go uh find a way to

get the uh Freedom

Riders and uh there was a girl her name

was antonet Carson and she had her

license at the time and her father

grandfather would leave his car

in the garage every day so we scheme

together and said we were going to steal his

his

car and go pick up the Freedom Riders

and we did we said how in the world we

going to get this car back in here so

what we did was we took some chalk

School chalk and Mark where the tires of

his car

were and took the car picked up the

Freedom Riders went back and put that

car right in the tracks of those marks

that we had made

made

and it was such an eventful day to see

how they were beaten and how they were

treated uh when getting off of those

buses and we had a car load up when we

when we left yeah yeah were you um

yourself uh ever so close to violence

that you really feel feared for your own personal

personal

safety it's something about

youth that even when you have

fear and it's something about having

live that kind of life that your fear is

bundled and it's

there but it does not

outweigh the need to

so that there were times when we had we

fear we had fear in fact the night that

the freedom riters came in uh we went to the

the

church uh carried them to the church and

we were there for the mass meeting that

night and when we went

in there were no

whites when we sat there a while the

church was completely surrounded

as far as you could see were

um uh mostly males on horses and um

carrying long guns and sitting outside

waiting on us to come out and that was

the night that we in fact spent the

night at the

church so it was a fearful

night but not enough fear to stop us

from doing what we need needed to

do s I was just going to say that uh

Rend uh say said that night uh to

me we were eating some food had come in

sandwiches and that kind of thing and he

was sitting on the steps at the church

on the

inside and I said R say what what are we

going to do cuz as far as we could see

all these people surrounding

we going to do like the doodle book and

I said what do you

mean he said Doodle cuz he called me

doodle quite a bit we going to do like the

the

doodle and I was an adult before I

really understood what we was saying but

we played this game in

Montgomery and we would sing The

Doodlebug Song it was back a back D back

back your house is on a

fire your children's

burning back a back dood back

back and I had to think about it as I

became an adult cuz I really didn't know

at the time what he was saying and I

thought about how that song said your

house is on a fire you in trouble but

you going to be just like the doodle B

and the doodle B when we was singing

that song the doodle B would back up

just bag out of uh the

sand and uh as if he was so small but as

if to say I'm protecting my

own let's pause for just excuse me just

one sec if we could

John we're back we're back after a short

break can you tell me about um M joh can

you tell me about the founding of the um

the freedom singers well

actually the freedom singer as you know

them I was not a part of that group I

joined after leaving the montgomer trio

but remember I went to school at Alabama State

State

University so that uh we kept the group

and so did uh the other two girls and so

we kept the group going during the time

that we were fighting to for a voter

registration and that kind of thing I

may have mentioned that um a lot of that

was done by the youth because a lot of

adults no longer wanted to participate

for whatever their reasons

were uh so when James Beville and those

people came into

Montgomery they called on us to sing

before the meetings that we would have

in the rural areas as well as in the

city of Montgomery so we would travel

around with them and we do the scene um

at the churches before the speaker would

of course speak so we kept our group The

Montgomery Trio going up until that

time and um after

which I came to

Atlanta uh got with Bernice

Reagan uh it started I guess I have to

back up to say that uh she had asked

that I participate

in the what they call the penny

festival and that's where the the M the

community and the school that was so SE much

much

separation that they had formed this

penet Festival to come together with the

community to put on a performance each

year yes and uh snck did that and when

Bernie rean asked me to

participate we did the music for for

that first P Festival that we would uh

we were

doing and um after I said goodness I

haven't been singing and this was so

good to participate in this kind of

thing so myself along with another

singer that uh was in the harambe singer MADD

MADD

Casey uh Pierce

now went to Bernice's house knocked on

the door and said we'd like to just

continue to sing let's continue to sing

and thus for uh was started

the harambe

singers so I wasn't in that uh Freedom

grp singers with bernes but in the

harambe singers with

her let me take you back tell me about I

want to ask about repertoire and what

you most like to sing say in the early

in the in the gospel Trio in Montgomery

later in the when you're in college and

then later with her back it depended on

what was happening at the

time uh that determine what we would

sing and what message we would cuz we

learned at highand that these songs not

only could carry a message for the

movement in Montgomery but songs carried

wherever and that when we went to um

Highlander we would sing and and uh our

songs uh This Little Light of Mine which

became one of the famous songs of the

movement and it's interesting to note

that we were singing that for the

movement at 11 years

old um and became one of the songs on

the the uh album that we did but that

was one of the important songs we got we

are soldiers in the Army was one of the

songs we did oh Freedom so we were doing

all of these songs at 11 years old for the

the

movement songs which later

became the bulk of the songs and uh the

basis of the songs for that upcoming

Civil Rights

Movement what you excuse me what part

did you s

I sing uh basically the melody but we

did interchange and I do a lot of the

lead singing on the uh songs all the verse

verse

singing tell me about um that work um I

think with

um uh about 66 1966 forward the par

singers and tell me about how that group

evolved and and you you work there I

will um I do want to say a bit more

about Highlander and how our songs began to

uh attended those workshops with G

Carolin and

all if you go back to the songs you'll

see that we were singing songs but

basically we didn't write the song There

is a a Montgomery song that represents

that movement that was written by one of

the professors at Alabama State

which for me for that era was the first

actual song that was written for

movement and I like to get that in

because people think it happened later

on but no right at that time he wrote

that song but when we went to Highlander

we were singing some of the song

basically the freedom songs basically as

they were done

traditionally and we are traditional

singers uh and we would add a word in in

a verse or a line to represent our

movement or sometime we would change a

line but we Wen actually changing whole

songs until actually we got there to

highand and saw others do it and then we

thought we were equipped we were going

back then writing songs and doing our

own you know version of the songs but we

kept it traditional and in terms of how

we would sing the song so if you hear

our album or any of those things you see

we kept um the traditional ways of um

doing that but I want to add that

because I want to give them credit of

how songs change doing the

movement that kind of

thing now what happened in in particular

what's that song that he wrote there's

one song that you're he wrote uh uh

and some it's interesting how he wrote

that song but some because sometimes now

when I'm singing it are we are

performing that song people look and say

did y'all say hell yes that's the way he

wrote the song because he wrote it from

a traditional song that

um I think the song is ain't going to

rain no

more and in that song it says how in the

hell do the old folk know it ain't going

to rain no more and he said how in the

hell don't the white folk know we ain't

going to ride them buses no

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NMAAHC Oral History Interview: Jamila Jones