0:01 [Music]
0:04 welcome to Mom's true tea the podcast
0:06 where moms can spill the true tea on
0:09 various stop provoking topics and
0:11 challenge beliefs about motherhood and
0:14 life authentically unapologetically and
0:17 without judgment I'm your host Kendall leay
0:18 leay
0:21 Williams today is a very special episode
0:23 featuring a heart-to-heart conversation
0:26 between my oldest son and I am in this
0:27 episode we'll be discussing my son's
0:30 journey of coming out from both pers
0:31 perspectives in the importance of
0:35 fostering understanding and acceptance
0:37 but first let me give you his resume
0:40 he's a World Travel recording artist has
0:42 toured with Dave Crowder in his band
0:44 he's toured Germany singing Israel and
0:47 Lebanon he's a professional solo artist
0:49 and background vocalist for some world
0:52 renowned artists a music composer he's
0:54 performed on the Dove Awards as a
0:55 background artist and was part of a
0:59 Tyler perod performance in 2023 he has a
1:00 song on Apple music music called Greater
1:04 Love he gives the best bear hoods he
1:07 always smells amazing he's my firstborn
1:11 son and just know I don't play about him
1:13 so tap in for this authentic and
1:15 Unapologetic conversation from my heart
1:21 to his and his heart to mine hi son hey
1:24 Mom wow what a
1:27 welcomeing wow thank you so much that
1:31 makes me feel I don't know on the up
1:34 like we standing on business and you are
1:38 and you are thank you thank you so much
1:40 thank you so much for joining me and for
1:43 having this conversation with me son I
1:45 know it was not the most comfortable
1:47 conversation to have publicly and I know
1:49 that you were reluctant at first and I
1:51 respected that was your decision at the
1:54 time but I am so glad and so thankful
1:57 that you changed your mind because I
1:59 felt this conversation really needed to
2:00 happen shared from both of our
2:02 perspectives but just know I know it
2:05 takes courage and strength to embrace
2:07 your true self and my hope is that by
2:10 sharing our story it will bring healing
2:13 that will inspire and Empower others
2:16 going through similar experiences so son
2:20 Let's jump into it when did you realize
2:23 and accept your sexual orientation and
2:25 tell me about that journey of Discovery
2:30 for you okay well I know that I realized
2:34 that I was experiencing these feelings
2:38 when I was very very young um I think it
2:42 was maybe Elementary School honestly
2:45 like I felt that there was something
2:48 different you know like where boys are
2:51 supposed to like girls and and girls are
2:53 supposed to like boys you know this is
2:55 just something that you know that we're
2:56 taught that this is the right thing to
3:00 do and um for me you know I wasn't you
3:03 know like like I had a different feeling
3:06 for women and girls like you know like I
3:08 it for me it was just kind of like like
3:10 it's sacred I don't know I don't know
3:12 how to really explain it like I don't
3:15 want to touch a woman like that yeah or
3:19 make them feel any type of way like you
3:22 know I just have a very high respect and
3:25 um a very high regard for women wow and
3:28 it it just never really interested me
3:31 yeah to want to
3:34 experience a woman
3:37 sexually sexually like I just felt like
3:41 it was like y'all are God's gifts you
3:44 know what I'm saying we are you know
3:46 like y are God's gifts and um not
3:48 necessarily saying that men aren't you
3:52 know right but um I just never really
3:56 had a true desire to want to be with a
3:58 woman or to sexually be with a woman so
4:00 that attraction was not there for you
4:02 just wasn't there for me okay and
4:05 Society does tell us that it's abnormal
4:07 to have those feelings right so I can
4:11 only imagine how conflicted you may have
4:14 been knowing that Society tells you I'm
4:17 a man I should be with the woman and I
4:19 should have these feelings and this
4:22 desire and attraction for women so okay
4:24 that makes sense yeah it was very odd
4:28 you know because I just felt like I was
4:31 wrong like like is there something wrong
4:36 with me wow and um like why am I not
4:38 feeling this way and you know you hear
4:41 from other fathers you know other
4:44 fathers that have sons you know this is
4:45 just disgusting you know you don't do
4:47 that you know this is just how it's
4:49 supposed to be and you know you're
4:50 supposed to be like this you're supposed
4:52 to be like that and I'm just in the back
4:55 of my mind what's wrong with me yeah
4:57 nothing there's nothing wrong with you
4:59 so let's let's put that out there right
5:00 here and that
5:02 um thank you for sharing that
5:05 perspective and that gives me clarity as
5:08 well because I can only imagine the
5:11 confusion that you felt the Fear And the
5:14 emotions during that process of you
5:16 discovering you were gay or experiencing
5:18 these feelings that we're taught by the
5:21 church and black culture and Society are
5:25 not normal so I empathize with you
5:28 greatly on that hearing that perspective
5:30 how did you feel
5:33 when I came to you and asked you about
5:35 it or asked you questions about your
5:39 sexuality well you know um my coming out
5:45 funny when we lived in
5:48 Florida and you know you had that like I
5:50 thought I was in trouble I was like Lord
5:53 Jesus what is going on because all I
5:55 hear is
5:59 D breing your mind home right now and
6:02 I'm like oh Lord Jesus like what is
6:05 going on what did I do and then I came
6:15 F CUA I was running it up you know long distance
6:15 distance
6:19 calls were not really you know Norm they
6:22 were not free exactly they were not free
6:25 so you know I was calling all type of
6:27 people building relationships all these
6:30 type of people over the phone I'm like
6:32 Lord geez like
6:35 I you know for me like it like of course
6:37 you know like not paying the bills you
6:39 know you just don't really know you just
6:41 don't really know I'm thinking like you
6:43 know these long distance calls are
6:45 normal like you know okay you know I can
6:48 do this right because you know it went
6:51 through you know it went through but
6:53 because your mama
6:57 p man that was it's really funny it's
6:59 it's it's really funny um thinking about
7:01 like that whole scenario but then like
7:03 you know the seriousness of it like oh
7:07 my God my mom finally finally knows or
7:10 has this type of you know my radar my
7:12 radar kind of went up like hey wait a
7:14 minute who are these people like I know
7:17 I'm not making these calls yeah you know
7:19 of course I call a few back and they're
7:22 all men of course when I answer when
7:24 they answer and I'm like who the hell
7:27 are you and why are you talking to my
7:30 teenage son so it was Discovery for me
7:32 from a couple different perspectives one
7:34 you was running up my
7:38 phone two it was like who are you know
7:39 why are all these people that I'm
7:43 calling back men or young men or boys
7:47 and then three like wait is my son gay
7:50 you know what I'm saying because for me
7:51 even though you may have expressed that
7:53 you never really had those feelings and
7:55 desires for girls or women or anything
7:57 like that there was never any clear
8:01 indication to me that you were G really
8:04 I always thought that you knew I did not
8:06 okay maybe I was blind to it because
8:08 again you never you were always gentle
8:11 in nature but I thought that was just
8:13 who you were as a person because that is
8:16 who you are yeah as a person you were
8:18 just sweet you were humble you did not
8:23 give me any trouble drus and it was just
8:27 like I never paid that any attention and
8:30 I don't know if it was just my naive
8:32 and not paying any attention but it's
8:33 not like you were walking around in high
8:35 heels with towels on your head swing
8:38 your haired around or playing with dolls
8:41 like I just that I did not see I know
8:43 that you spent a lot of time with me you
8:46 spent a lot of time with Grandma and Rin
8:49 seat so you know I knew that but at the
8:52 same time just nothing was like oh wow
8:54 is my child gay yes like I just never
8:58 thought like that and like I did have
9:03 you know feminine qualities um young and
9:05 you know me being who I am today you
9:08 know and I didn't necessar I take it
9:10 back when I said that I thought you knew
9:12 okay I may have thought that you had
9:13 like a
9:16 speculation but I know that you didn't
9:18 know I know that you didn't know and I
9:21 didn't want anybody to know because I
9:24 was still wrestling with myself I was
9:25 still wrestling with myself to really
9:29 figure out who I am yeah who I am as a
9:32 boy who I am as a
9:34 teenager and who am I be who am I to
9:38 become as a manow and today you know I
9:41 still am trying to figure out who am I
9:45 at 33 yeah you know who am I at 33 and I
9:48 know that it's more yeah than you know
9:50 my sexuality I'm more than that
9:52 absolutely but you know I I always
9:54 thought that you had a speculation so at
9:56 the time you know um like knowing that
9:59 you didn't know it it feared me it
10:01 really brought a lot of fear in me
10:02 because you know I was still trying to
10:05 figure this all out right so to now have
10:07 to explain something to you that I
10:10 really don't know yeah you know that I
10:13 haven't really come to grips with it was
10:15 hard it was terrifying for me yeah wow
10:18 Dre I'm so sorry
10:22 son I'm so sorry um do you think coming
10:25 out impacted any friendships or family
10:28 Dynamic and and how so any of a
10:32 relationship I feel like people have
10:37 always accepted me for whoever I am just
10:40 because I'm just really good with people
10:44 you are I I love building relationships
10:47 with people I love figuring out who the
10:49 you know who they are as an individual
10:52 yeah and I feel like my you know my
10:55 humor like you know just like me being a
10:59 goofy person and a talented person and
11:02 me also carrying you know thank you God
11:05 for me carrying some sort of wisdom yeah
11:08 that that also helps people see past
11:11 yeah you know what they feel is taboo
11:14 right right do you feel like you have to
11:16 overcompensate in those areas and which
11:19 are already natural for you being a good
11:22 person your smile lights up a room again
11:25 you give the most amazing hugs ever
11:27 everywhere I go it warms my heart if
11:30 we're together and people see you and
11:32 they're just they just gravitate to you
11:34 my first thing is like how you know my
11:37 child and then second it's like this is
11:39 his heart because he's such an amazing
11:43 person do you feel like you had to be
11:45 extra when it came to that or were you
11:47 just be like no this is who I am
11:50 naturally and I don't have to be the
11:54 overly funny person or overly friendly
11:56 well Mom you know you've always taught
11:59 your sons to be you know who they are
12:02 not to really be that person that has to
12:05 be extra you know when you walk into the
12:07 room you know it's just that just has
12:11 never been me yeah I've always been very
12:14 calm yeah you have been very Collective
12:16 you know of course you know I have my
12:18 moments where I'm very sensitive you
12:21 know and I get you know I get upset and
12:23 sometimes I could be extremely stubborn
12:26 but still at the same time I've always
12:28 been me because you have always been you
12:31 oh wow just to see you know the woman
12:34 that you are you're not extra you know
12:36 what I'm saying you're not that person
12:38 you have never been that person and you
12:41 being the example that I look up to you
12:43 know it's it's
12:45 always that's never really been a
12:47 hardship for me I never felt like I've
12:50 ever had to overcompensate yeah just to
12:53 make a room like you good you know I
12:55 feel like us being the people that we
12:57 are and the spiritual people that we are
12:59 that God has given us a life
13:01 so when we walk into a room you know of
13:04 course you know not speaking from an
13:06 arrogant perspective but just you know
13:08 it's just the light that we carry I mean
13:10 talk your talk yeah the light that we
13:13 carry when we walk into a room it
13:15 brightens up a room yeah and I feel like
13:17 some individuals that deal with a lot of
13:19 Darkness they can't accept that
13:21 sometimes so that's why there is always
13:25 some type of conflict or some type of
13:27 there's a disconnect a tussle or
13:31 contention or we don't have consistency
13:34 in our lives as far as relationships are
13:35 concerned exactly like you know it's not
13:38 with everybody yeah you know it's not
13:39 with everybody but there's always that
13:41 one person that will not like you right
13:44 and they're GNA always try to see what
13:46 the negatives are right in society's
13:48 Norms absolutely you know what I'm
13:50 saying um what is the negative life that
13:52 they have and if they're gonna they're
13:55 gonna also try to force that on you or
13:57 you know point that on you and try to
13:58 speak to other people to make them not like
14:00 like
14:01 people are just like well he's
14:03 completely different with me
14:05 absolutely you know he's completely
14:07 different with me but um you know yeah
14:09 just speaking from that perspective yeah
14:11 and I think that's a good point that you
14:14 do make because I do feel like we carry
14:16 a light but I think sometimes we try to
14:18 dim our light when we come into
14:20 different spaces as well because we
14:22 don't want other people to feel a
14:24 certain way yeah like we never walk in
14:26 the room and turn the switch in we are
14:28 the light yes we don't have to turn the
14:31 switch on like we don't have to conform
14:33 we're just coming as ourselves and I'm
14:35 glad that that was something that you
14:37 took away from me because I always pride
14:40 myself on being very genuine and that's
14:42 exactly who you are as well thank you
14:46 Mom yes so did you have friends that you
14:48 confided in as you got older of course
14:50 and became a teenager like did you have
14:53 a circle of friends or any type of
14:55 support system outside of the family
14:58 because I know that you still probably
15:00 weren in a position to have an open
15:02 conversation like we're having right now
15:04 and I think we had one like much later
15:08 on down the line but before we had that
15:12 conversation did you feel like you had a
15:14 group of friends or anyone that you
15:16 could go to and confide in or just have
15:19 these conversations because you all may
15:22 have been aligned as far as sexuality
15:25 you know all of my friendships um you
15:28 know growing up over time I feel like
15:31 since I met all of my friend most of my
15:34 friends in church and most of my friends
15:37 could sing and like I have one best
15:39 friend now to this day that I call my
15:43 brother and we have been very close for
15:46 years now and we met we met in high
15:49 school and you know it's just always
15:54 been a positive friendship um and I feel
15:56 like over time you know there were a lot
15:57 of friends that were still trying to
16:00 figure themselves out
16:03 um and then you have the church aspect
16:05 you have the church aspect y you know
16:07 that coming down on you um but as my
16:09 friendships are concerned like I said
16:13 they see past my sexual orientation and
16:16 they have always been very genuine
16:18 relationships and of course like you
16:19 know you know you go you have your
16:22 people here today you don't have your
16:24 people here today of course you know and
16:26 that is completely okay but they can
16:29 never say that I was a bad person oh no
16:32 you know and I'm thankful for that yeah
16:34 I'm very very thankful for that I hope
16:36 I'm answering this
16:39 question because just just speak freely
16:41 like it is perfectly fine and there is
16:44 no right or wrong answer okay yeah well
16:45 you know with my friendships like a lot
16:47 of people were still trying to figure
16:49 themselves out you know sexually and who
16:52 they were and and can I be this way and
16:55 can I be that way I feel like I was more
16:58 of a person that encouraged people to
17:01 just be genuinely themselves you know
17:05 because this is what makes you beautiful
17:08 this is what makes you stand out you
17:11 know this is what made us become friends
17:14 and it's not about your sexual
17:17 orientation it is about who you are to
17:20 people it is about how you represent
17:23 yourself and the character that you have
17:26 and yeah yeah your sexuality doesn't
17:27 Define you yeah of course not you know
17:29 because there are people that are not
17:32 gay or you know and there're still are
17:34 and some people who are who are not the
17:36 best people and they're not the best
17:38 people so your sexuality doesn't Define
17:40 you your heart and your character is
17:44 what defines you yes okay so you know
17:47 like I said earlier I never like
17:49 honestly I never really realized nor
17:51 considered that you were gay growing up
17:54 I just didn't and I don't know maybe I
17:57 was in denial or just plain ignorant
18:00 because I just never saw those signs
18:01 that indicated that you were gay or
18:04 confused about your sexuality I knew
18:06 again like I said you were very caring
18:09 and you were a nurturer you weren't
18:12 rough like other boys you were artistic
18:15 when I found out you could sing um Sing
18:17 Down highly intelligent you were
18:20 creative and you were really all you
18:22 always took care of your little brother
18:24 outside of the time you slapped him in
18:26 the face when he was a baby and you were
18:29 five you must have saw something that I
18:33 didn't see but other than that you were
18:35 always really protective of your little
18:37 brother at the time you know you were
18:41 just a good sweet kid and you still are
18:44 um I think it was when you were a teen
18:46 like I said that I started to notice
18:47 those calls in that phone bill and we
18:51 had to have that conversation Jesus and
18:53 I do kind of remember like standing in
18:55 the kitchen and both of us standing face
18:57 to face and I'm like are you gay and at
18:59 the time because now I understand you
19:02 were still trying to identify who you
19:04 were and I was like are you gay and you
19:06 were like no I'm bisexual and then I
19:10 said no if you really understood what
19:12 that meant or you were still trying to
19:15 identify your sexuality at the time you
19:17 probably wouldn't have replied that way
19:19 right I think you were still just trying
19:21 to figure it out still trying to figure
19:23 it out and me in true fashion I was like
19:26 because you know the last thing I wanted
19:29 to do was for you to pretend to be be
19:31 attracted to some woman or be in a
19:33 relationship with some woman knowing
19:36 truthfully that wasn't your desire cuz I
19:39 think that's happened with a lot of men
19:41 a lot of heterosexual men you assume
19:44 they're heterosexual they get into these
19:45 relationships have you know they're
19:47 married they have kids and all this
19:49 stuff and the whole time that's not
19:50 their true desire you know what I'm
19:54 saying so I just wanted you even in that
19:56 very small conversation for you to feel
19:59 comfortable and say exactly who you were
20:02 because I wanted you to stand in your
20:05 truth and and now I understand why you
20:06 said what you said because you were
20:09 still trying to figure it out yes and a
20:12 little bit was fear of course I didn't
20:16 you know I didn't want to hurt you yeah
20:20 or hurt anyone connected to us yeah you
20:23 know so I wanted there to be I guess
20:27 some type of relief that oh he makes
20:30 still like girls like girls or you know
20:32 get married to a woman I still have
20:35 children you know and not saying that I
20:38 can't have children now but like but you
20:40 know at the time you know I I still
20:43 wanted there to be some type of Hope
20:46 yeah okay and relief okay that makes
20:48 sense that makes sense excuse me no
20:50 problem that makes sense you know like
20:53 admittedly I had so many emotions after
20:56 that brief conversation right we kind of
20:57 and we kind of didn't discuss it any
21:00 further till years later and that's when
21:02 we moved here we we discussed it further
21:04 and we really had a long conversation
21:06 about it and I think what prompted that
21:08 conversation is someone called your
21:10 stepdad thinking they were out in you
21:13 not realizing I had already you and I
21:16 had already had that conversation and T
21:19 knew like he knew already he said he
21:21 knew he noticed it and he asked me did I
21:24 notice it at the time but he never
21:26 judged you for that you know what I'm
21:29 saying but ironic when that person
21:32 called to say you know Dre is talking to
21:34 this person and they're gay so he must
21:37 be gay I was like I think that open up
21:40 an opportunity for you and I to finally
21:45 sit down and have that conversation
21:48 right and then I think the first thing I
21:51 said was I need you to make sure that
21:53 you're protecting yourself that you
21:56 educate yourself and then I suggested
21:58 that you join a support group and I
22:00 think you were going to like group
22:02 meetings for a little bit yes it was a
22:06 group called Evolution okay in near
22:09 Edgewood okay yeah it was it was
22:12 definitely a group where I learned a lot
22:16 about just about the culture in Atlanta
22:20 yeah the gay culture in Atlanta and how
22:23 it could be a beautiful thing but then
22:27 also a toxic thing as well and I was
22:29 going to these meetings with a very good
22:31 friend at the time and you know we still
22:37 Converse to this day um but I also
22:40 realized the things you know that the
22:44 gay culture accepted and didn't accept
22:47 um me being a heavier like man I've
22:50 always had weight on me and I
22:54 wasn't accepted to the fullest degree
22:55 when I would go to these meetings but
22:57 yet they would accept my other friend
22:58 because he was smaller yeah he was
23:01 smaller and they found him to be more
23:04 attractive wow so you know and then they
23:07 invited him to be you know a part of a
23:09 gay house and a gay house is like okay
23:12 where you have a mother a father and
23:15 children nephews like they and they all
23:19 live together but they're all so
23:23 sexually active together you know wow um
23:25 and you know depending upon who the
23:29 mother figure is you know how they are
23:31 they can either try you sexually or they
23:34 just won't um but they'll be teaching
23:36 you you know shaping you and molding you
23:39 to survive in this community and and you
23:42 know about um HIV prevention and you
23:43 know the importance of that you know
23:44 like and we spoke about all of these
23:47 things in the meetings too but then also
23:49 it kind of shied me
23:52 away from wanting to be fully active in
23:56 that because why do I have to feel like
24:00 I'm not accepted here and not accepted
24:03 in society's Norms as well wow like
24:06 that's not fair to me not at all it's
24:08 not fair to me and but me being the
24:11 strong person that I am and me also
24:14 being as spiritual as I am and me having
24:16 the relationship that I have with God
24:18 I've just learned you know that you know
24:21 God accepts me yeah and God loves me he
24:26 does and um I don't necessarily have to
24:28 jump all the way in into something that
24:32 I don't feel comfortable in right if
24:33 that makes sense yeah it makes total
24:36 sense so you felt rejected in that
24:39 Community because I I felt rejected to a
24:42 certain extent like um there were still
24:43 others that you know that like me for
24:46 who I was right that's also good you
24:48 know that speaks to their to their
24:50 character and who they are as who they
24:52 are as human beings but then also you
24:56 know all this rejection that a lot of
24:59 people within the gay culture have have
25:02 received they take that into the culture
25:06 as well so then it becomes a huge toxic
25:11 thing and if we're trying to
25:15 fight oppression and trying to fight um
25:17 being ridiculed and judged and all that
25:19 stuff but yet you're taking it into the
25:21 gay culture as well that don't make
25:24 sense to not at all not at all it it has
25:26 never made sense to me and to this day
25:29 it is still the same h to this day it is
25:32 still the same oh wow son I didn't know
25:36 that so but you know what I wouldn't say
25:38 I know it felt like a slight bit of
25:40 rejection being in that but at the same
25:42 time listening to what you're saying it
25:45 was for your protection yes it was
25:46 definitely for your protection and I
25:49 think we have to make sure that we
25:52 acknowledge that a lot of times the most
25:55 high will protect us from things right
25:58 and it feels like rejection but again
26:01 it's definitely us being protected I
26:05 just know I had like a range of emotions
26:08 from my perspective it you know it was
26:10 hard for me at the time to accept or
26:14 even process it right I I remember
26:16 having like I said this big range of
26:19 emotions at first I was again kind of
26:21 surprised I think I cried for days
26:22 definitely not in front of you because I
26:25 didn't want you to feel away because I I
26:27 could only imagine that you felt way and
26:30 you're confirming that you did already
26:33 right I was also afraid for you and
26:35 that's why I was like make sure you go
26:37 and educate yourself and get with these
26:39 groups because not only as a gay man but
26:43 a gay black man it is even harder so I
26:45 wanted to make sure you had the tools
26:49 that you needed in order for you to walk
26:51 this journey because it was nothing that
26:56 I could teach you or tell you or guide
26:58 you in I can only make my
27:00 suggestions then of course from a
27:02 religious perspective I was like what
27:03 does this mean for my child you know
27:05 what I'm saying because in in church
27:07 we're taught oh you're gay you're gonna
27:09 go to hell and I'm like there's no way
27:13 that my child who has this amazing heart
27:15 who has this beautiful gift is going to
27:18 go to anybody's hell not when you got a
27:21 bunch of Helens in the church already
27:23 just because you're not gay you do a
27:24 whole lot of other stuff and we'll talk
27:27 about that a little bit later but you
27:31 know I just I refuse to believe that and
27:32 then you know I heard things like oh I
27:34 heard you tried to beat the gay out of
27:35 him like how the hell am I gonna beat
27:37 the gay out of you when I didn't even
27:39 realize you were gay you heard that from
27:43 who Jes I won't say any names but you
27:45 know I'm sure someone within our family
27:47 told that person and that person told me
27:50 but it's here nor there it was like what
27:52 how do you beat the gay out of somebody
27:55 and I think but I do believe people have
27:58 had that experience I think it's very
28:01 ignant but you know I'm sure people have
28:03 that had that experience and and I
28:05 empathize with them then I also dealt
28:07 with guilt like you know did I put my
28:09 child In Harm's Way you know because I'm
28:12 not educated I don't know it's about how
28:14 you're feeling you know what I'm saying
28:15 I'm automatically thinking all the
28:18 things that Society has taught like
28:20 something's wrong or you know this
28:22 person's been touched or whatever and I
28:25 carried that guilt for a while and it's
28:28 not until like I said later on we had a
28:30 full on conversation and you were like
28:33 Mom that's not the case this is just how
28:37 I feel and you set me free at that time
28:41 because I was really like really guilty
28:43 and when we sat down and you said that
28:46 and you told me that you set me free and
28:48 thank you for that because I didn't have
28:51 to carry that guilt anymore you know I
28:53 wanted to also protect you I knew the
28:57 ignorance that comes along with this and
28:59 I wanted to make sure that I would
29:02 protect you as much as I possibly could
29:04 you know what I'm saying because I think
29:08 people are taught judgment and to me I
29:11 dispelled anything as far as you going
29:13 to hell because I was like no that's not
29:15 gonna happen my child's not going to
29:18 hell at all what were your experiences
29:24 with the church being gay oh man um so
29:27 it has always been of course a speculation
29:28 speculation
29:30 within any Community any church that
29:34 I've been in um but it's never been
29:37 anything that people could confirm until
29:39 they asked me like now being in the
29:41 church earlier when I was younger of
29:44 course I would deny it um I would deny
29:48 it and it was something that I was
29:49 really really fruitful of but once I
29:50 came out to
29:55 you that said me free oh wow so I want
29:59 to just say thank you to you because
30:01 it really Set Me Free from me lying
30:04 about something that I did not want to
30:07 lie about you know like this is this is
30:10 just something that I have to live with
30:13 and me being me being homosexual doesn't
30:16 have to Define who I am it does like you
30:18 know before you know it was okay for me
30:21 to come up on your platform you know and
30:23 sing this and slay to church and you
30:26 know and do all of this but now you want
30:28 to bring me into your office and say he
30:30 we want to work on changing
30:34 you wow we want to work on changing you
30:36 and we want to work on um getting you to
30:38 be the man that God has destined you to
30:41 be how do you know that and how can you
30:44 change me yeah and do you know do you
30:47 know what God wants you to be that's
30:48 exactly you know do you know the purpose
30:51 that God has instilled in you because a
30:54 lot of people still wrestle with that a
30:56 lot of people still wrestle with okay
30:58 what does God want me to be God want me
31:01 to do what is my purpose on the earth
31:03 you know what is going to make me
31:05 successful in the Kingdom but then also
31:07 successful on Earth you know these are
31:09 things that people wrestle with and
31:10 that's why a lot of people leave the
31:15 faith and that is very very hard to
31:17 wrestle with but still at the same time
31:19 like you know don't make me feel like I
31:22 need to change right like my
31:24 relationship with God is pretty good you
31:27 know what I'm saying and we we talk
31:29 about hard things
31:30 things
31:34 know we talked about the hard things
31:35 real hard things you know what I'm
31:37 saying absolutely and I feel like you
31:39 know God continues to give me Revelation
31:41 within the word and just like you know
31:45 through intuition and I'm thankful for
31:47 that I'm very very thankful for that but
31:50 yes it has been it has been hard but
31:53 then also like it has been I've had some
31:56 very loving loving experiences beautiful
31:58 experiences and a lot different churches
32:01 and just through people in general
32:04 because this is not taboo anymore no
32:07 it's not this is not taboo anymore
32:10 people are coming out right people are
32:12 coming out and a lot of people are still
32:15 hidden yeah people 60 year old daddies
32:18 right people 60 70 year old daddies like
32:20 for real you know what I'm saying and
32:23 Mas yeah you know what I'm saying now
32:25 starting to feel like oh I could come
32:28 out or they've been over the years yeah
32:30 you know what I'm saying doing things in
32:32 secret yeah and I feel like that makes
32:36 it a lot more rough wow it makes it a
32:39 lot oh my God that is so good that is so
32:42 good because you just said something
32:44 people that are in their 60s and 70s
32:45 first of all they're like I don't have
32:48 much time on this Earth so I want to be
32:53 free because they've lived this live for
32:57 60 70 plus years I would never want you
33:02 to be held in bondage or hostage yes to
33:05 not living in your truth that's exactly
33:10 what it is I can only imagine and like
33:12 us being you know
33:14 African-Americans we already still
33:16 trying to break off bondage you know
33:19 what I'm saying just from
33:23 slavery all of this and all the anger
33:26 and all of this stuff you centuries just
33:28 from slavery alone like you know and
33:30 then like I just saw something um on TV
33:32 the other day where like the lady was
33:33 like you know they they would have to
33:36 deal with the the white slave masters
33:37 and you know they they would have to
33:39 agree with them and make them feel like
33:42 they were Superior and right but yet
33:44 take that home to their
33:46 children and beat their children and
33:49 beat their dogs and all of this stuff
33:51 because they can't do that with
33:54 Master you know what I'm saying so like
33:58 like take that experience and now now
34:00 you have your son or your daughter right
34:05 coming to you saying hey yeah I'm gay
34:07 yeah you know what I'm saying or you
34:09 finding out through the great F you know
34:10 what I'm saying like all that anger that
34:13 you have and all the hostility that you
34:15 have it's going to be even worse for
34:18 them and their experience and them just
34:20 feeling free enough to come to you you
34:22 know about their experience not they're
34:26 not gonna feel that ease anymore yeah so
34:27 I I know that's I don't know if that's
34:29 kind of left but like still at the same
34:31 time like you I don't know just relating
34:33 that experience I feel like it's
34:35 generational it is definitely
34:36 generational it's definitely
34:39 generational because we have been we
34:42 have had to keep control of ourselves
34:44 and therefore that has to go and be
34:47 imposed on someone else right but again
34:49 the last thing I would have ever wanted
34:51 to do is hold you hostage and not to be
34:54 able to live in your freedom and as a
34:58 parent I think that we have to have
35:00 these conversations and have these open
35:02 conversations because there's parents
35:05 that clearly like their children are gay
35:08 and outside everybody knows it and
35:11 they're in this denial and not only that
35:14 you you will set your child free if they
35:16 could live and be who they really are
35:19 and then you would set yourself free as
35:23 a parent because it's a burden for both
35:25 right you want your child to be
35:28 protected so I I just think for me
35:31 during my Evolution and acceptance of
35:33 the fact that you were gay I learned
35:35 that you being comfortable being whoever
35:38 you choose to be was necessary for you
35:41 again to be free yes that denying your
35:44 sexuality it holds you hostage that's
35:47 your happiness and and your happiness
35:51 meant much more to me than your
35:53 sexuality and then I would be then I
35:54 started being like well who are you
35:56 dating like and you be like Mom you
35:58 still didn't want want to talk about
36:00 that and that's fine because again you
36:03 know I still I mind my business but for
36:05 me it became more about I just want my
36:09 child to be happy I want my children to
36:11 be happy you know what I'm saying
36:13 because again you you be surprised how
36:16 many parents are in complete denial
36:18 about the sexuality of their child and
36:20 and a lot of it has to do with
36:23 religion a lot of it does I'm sure it
36:28 does but my Evolution and my acceptance
36:31 was to not only set you free to be who
36:35 you were but also to set myself free
36:37 well I feel like you know like how you
36:39 said when I was younger you know you
36:43 really didn't you really didn't know and
36:45 I feel like genuinely there are some
36:49 parents that just don't know you know
36:51 that this has been their child you know
36:53 ever since they were born so you know
36:55 like them seeing their expression and
36:57 their emotion and their character this
37:00 is just all that they know that they
37:03 wouldn't think oh my child is gay right
37:04 that's true you know what I'm saying
37:05 that they you know like some people are
37:09 just oblivious to it and that is okay
37:10 you know it is something that I feel
37:12 like a lot of people you know still need
37:15 to learn and then also pay attention to
37:18 but then also it is so important for the
37:20 child it is also important for the child
37:24 to be able to you know um muster up some
37:26 strength and some courage just for
37:29 themselves right just for themselves to
37:31 want to be free yeah you know um a lot
37:34 of people love living in bondage they do
37:36 a lot of people love living in chaos
37:37 they do and that's completely okay
37:39 because God has given us free will you
37:42 know that is fine for you but I know for
37:45 myself yeah I need some peace in being
37:48 free okay in being free and then also
37:50 why wouldn't I want to be honest with
37:52 you right the people that I love yeah
37:54 you know the people that I love like why
37:56 wouldn't I want to be honest with you
37:58 and be able to share life experiences
38:01 with you you know just over time like I
38:05 feel like it is so saddening to be able
38:08 to hide and to be hidden from who you
38:12 truly are from your mother wow from your
38:15 father wow you know what I'm saying like
38:18 I feel like it is just a hardship and a
38:21 crutch and for anybody to have to feel
38:22 that way I feel like they really need to
38:25 do some re-evaluation yeah re-evaluation
38:28 as the parent and as the child there's
38:30 some learning and some growing to do and
38:33 some loving and some accepting like what
38:36 don't you accept of yourself you know
38:37 what I'm saying that's making you not
38:39 accept your
38:42 child that's good because some parents
38:43 may be struggling with some things as
38:45 well right yeah and it doesn't
38:48 necessarily have to be you know
38:50 homosexuality it could be a plethora y
38:52 it could be drug addiction it could be
38:54 abandonment it could be mental issues it
38:57 could be anything that's great that's so good
38:58 good
39:01 um has this impacted your mental health
39:04 at all oh yeah and and what did you do
39:07 or what have you done or what are you
39:10 doing to make sure that you are taking
39:12 care of yourself from a mental health
39:13 perspective well before I thought
39:15 counseling was like you know only for
39:17 the people that really truly truly truly need
39:18 need
39:26 truly literally we truly truly truly be
39:29 it there's lot of things to unpack yes
39:31 sir you know what I'm saying then like
39:33 really knowing the true definition of
39:35 trauma yeah you know what is trauma what
39:38 does trauma look like for you and there
39:39 are some things that I didn't know about
39:43 myself that I experienced that was
39:46 traumatizing you know what I'm saying
39:50 like my father right yeah like my father
39:53 wanted to be in my life doing all of
39:55 these things what two three years and
39:59 then boom you kicking me out again wow
40:01 because he's battling with addiction wow
40:04 you know and that was traumatizing for
40:06 me cuz it was like him leaving you all
40:09 over again because he already he wasn't
40:11 there in the beginning for a long period
40:14 of time then you became a teenager and I
40:16 think his sister is the one that reached
40:18 out and really kind of connected you to
40:20 the family yes and I'm very thankful for
40:22 her and I and I'm very thankful for her
40:25 as well I I will never disregard the
40:28 fact that you're aunt yes is the one
40:31 that bridged that Gap because for me it
40:33 was never me trying to put any pressure
40:36 on him to be in your life it was like I
40:39 have a child I need to move forward I'm
40:41 not going to try to push this for
40:43 anything you know you have a child as
40:45 well but again this is a bigger
40:48 conversation yeah definitely but I
40:50 that's why I mentioned that earlier and
40:53 then him coming into your life and your
40:56 teen years maybe once or twice and then
41:00 again abandoning you all over again
41:03 traumatizing for retrigger so it is
41:04 something that I'm still trying to
41:06 unpack to this stay but it's something
41:08 that I am not oblivious to it's
41:10 something that I'm just not putting in
41:13 the back burner yeah and ignoring that
41:15 this is trauma you have to acknowledge
41:17 it yeah I have to acknowledge I have to
41:19 speak on it that this is what it is
41:21 absolutely and this is how I'm going to
41:24 get out of it absolutely so you know to
41:26 this day I'm still seeing counselors
41:29 good and th and you know just therapy is
41:32 just it's it's a good
41:34 thing it's a good thing yes you it's
41:37 needed yes I trust God yes I pray yeah
41:39 but I feel like you know that's why God
41:41 has built this art form of therapy oh
41:44 absolutely you know like for us to be
41:46 able to speak that's why you need people
41:49 yeah that's why you need people yeah
41:53 absolutely wow son this is so good like
41:55 I feel like we like I said we had this
41:58 conversation years ago and I thought it
42:00 was so important for us to rehab this
42:03 conversation and how could we educate
42:06 ourselves to dispel any miss or
42:10 stereotypes associated with being gay
42:12 well to this day you know we have the
42:13 gift of
42:15 YouTube you know and a lot of people
42:17 telling and sharing their stories you
42:20 have a lot of vloggers um you know that
42:22 tell their coming out stories and you
42:24 know how they have dealt with this and
42:26 dealt with that you know do your
42:29 research yeah you know Google you can
42:32 type any question in and it will give
42:34 you an answer like and it's I'm might
42:37 not even be joking about that like
42:39 Google is the most
42:42 incredible application form out there
42:45 right now where you can literally type
42:48 any question in yeah that you have yeah
42:50 and you will have a plethora of
42:53 information to skim through to skim
42:55 through and then also you know it's okay
42:57 to ask questions to you know your friend
43:00 that you know that have family members
43:02 or friends that are gay you know it is
43:04 okay to ask those questions but it is
43:06 you know also be respectful about it
43:08 absolutely in your
43:11 searching in your um information finding
43:13 along the way so that you know you can
43:14 know how to deal with your own
43:18 experience right yeah wow that's good
43:22 that is so good son thank you again for
43:24 joining me on this episode I am so
43:27 grateful and for your openness and your
43:29 willingness to share your journey and
43:32 heing from my perspective as your mom
43:34 what I would encourage parents to do is
43:38 one to be accepting of your child their
43:40 sexuality does not change who they are
43:42 you being gay has not changed who you
43:46 are I love you just as much if not more
43:48 by you being able to stand in your truth
43:51 and be honest about who you are my
43:55 overall goal is always to make sure you
43:57 guys are happy yes and and live your
44:00 life how you want to live your life but
44:03 I always say be smart you know what I'm
44:05 saying and be cognizant of everything
44:07 that comes along with this because it
44:09 can't be an easy Journey based on your
44:11 conversation and hearing some of the
44:12 highs and the lows you know what I'm
44:15 saying so coming out is a personal
44:17 journey and it's often times difficult
44:19 and having a supportive and
44:21 understanding Community can make all the
44:23 difference in the world it is so
44:26 important that we Embrace individuality
44:29 and one being truly themselves we hope
44:30 that this conversation has touched your
44:32 hearts and shed some light on the
44:34 importance of creating a loving and
44:36 inclusive environment for our children
44:38 that are either struggling with
44:41 identifying their sexuality coming out
44:42 or have come [Music]
44:44 [Music]
44:47 out thank you so much for tuning in I'm
44:49 so blessed to have a community where I
44:52 can show up as my most authen s because
44:54 I don't know what else to be don't
44:56 forget to favorite the show leave a
44:59 review And subscribe to the podcast on
45:01 your favorite streaming platforms to
45:03 stay up to date on new episodes
45:06 subscribe to my newsletter at
45:11 moms.com follow us on all socials at M
45:16 Ms T R tea and be sure to share and stay
45:19 tuned for more thought-provoking topics
45:22 and real talk on Mom's Che te with
45:25 Kendall leay until next time remember
45:29 you need you just as much as anyone else
45:33 so stop playing about you okay bye
Chrome Extension