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Which School is BEST for Your Kid in India? IB vs IGCSE Vs CBSE NRI | Desi Return | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Which School is BEST for Your Kid in India? IB vs IGCSE Vs CBSE NRI
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Video Summary
Summary
Core Theme
The discussion provides an expert overview of different educational curricula available in India (CBSE, Cambridge/IGCSE, and IB), highlighting their structures, assessment methods, and suitability for students, particularly those returning from abroad. It emphasizes the importance of school implementation and teacher training over board affiliation alone.
paper in fact the biggest difference
between these three boards the main work
of boards is the assessments the
examinations which happen school or what
are the questions that they should be
looking or or what what information that
they should see to differentiate a
school that's doing well in a particular
curriculum the awareness amongst parents
is also low about what is a good school
most people go by The
The
Branding percentage of their children
are getting what percentage of marks in
10th and 12th yeah which again is not
[Music]
hello everyone welcome back to another
episode of DC return today's episode is
a bit special uh this is not uh
interviewing the family who have moved
back to India but uh talking to an
expert in education to get an overview
of uh different curriculums ask some of
the questions that most of the people
have and uh I'm really excited to have
Mr mosum on our show uh who is an expert
in the the education field who has
expertise working with different
curriculums what works which curriculum
would be better for kids uh this is an
important topic for a lot of families
who are moving back to India and I'm
really looking forward to our discussion
uh with that welcome Mr mome to the show
thank you so much ainash for inviting me
and I'll be happy to share whatever I
can for the people who watch this that's
fantastic so why don't we start a bit
about your background I mean relevant to
the education so we just set the stage
and then we can get into the specifics
uh of the curriculums and so
on uh getting into education happened by
chance before that I an i a software
engineer and MBA which is like the life
path for almost you know majority of uh
people especially of our age so I did my
btech and then uh worked with Mahindra
for couple of years as a software
engineer then I did my MBA from spj
Singapore Dubai and then I worked with
Reliance diai Amani anal deai Amani
group for again couple of
years so during that period I realized
that uh working for a corporate is not
my calling and I was always interested
in helping people
learn uh uh was ashler education which
was uh into education uh especially for
pre- primary and primary uh grade
children and it was about creating
curriculum for that age group and then
delivering it to
schools and it happened by chance I met
somebody we got talking and then we
decide let's get into this and that is
where my journey a serious Journey with
the you know school education started
because we were on the development side
so it also put us into a position of
responsibility to create something
meaningful for uh
children yeah so that is where we
started diving into a lot of research on
how children learn how uh you know how
Learning Happens what is the right
environment what kind of setting should
be there how children should you know
um how children should mingle with uh
students what interaction how much
instruction so at a very deep level all
those things and we created our
curriculum and we we were able to
successfully distribute in about 1200
plus schools in
India so and it was well appreciated and
this curriculum kept on you know getting
fine with time so I spent my 10 years in
this Venture with the couple of Ventures
one is the uh Propel education there
again we work with schools now this is a
more deep connection with schools where
we just not you know deliver curriculum
we also train teachers to you know help
them understand how the education is
changing and how children you know the
the environment has changed atmosphere
has changed over such a long period so
what is the right education now and how
to deliver it to Children yeah so that
is the work at Propel uh another venture
I'm a significant part of is uncover ma genius
genius
where uh where we understood we work
deeply in mathematics education and in
fact a lot of this is personal
experience because we me and my wife
who's again a professor in mathematics
in Delhi University
lectur so uh we didn't send our children
to school we uh thought of taking an
alternative path and uh we created our
own School initially but then
homeschooled a little later after uh 2
three years so during these years so
that has been my journey over last 15
plus years
and no fantastic yeah thanks a lot for
such a detailed overview and uh really
looking forward to our specific
questions right especially for youth to
spend uh close to 15 years understanding
how the kids uh Thrive and which
curriculum and doing a homeschooling for
your own kids with an alternate
education system which we will dive into
so maybe let's start with a little bit
on a high level on the different
curriculums that are available in India
right now and uh you know which one
would work better for what kind of a kid
or maybe some compare and contrast on
those curriculums I think that would be
very good
stamp yeah so I'll say there are many
curriculums but I'll say majorly uh if I
talk about children grade one onwards in
pre- primary below grade one them more
curriculums like montri reguo and other
apart from the widely known
curriculums uh from grade one onwards
primarily there are three curriculums I
uh which I would uh you know get into
detail of details of first is cbsc which
everybody knows then uh there is
Cambridge curriculum which is a more
recent Edition which is also called
IGCSE it is a curriculum which was
created which is created by Cambridge
University and it's been uh you know
accepted by schools
worldwide and the third one is IB
curriculum which again which is again an
international curriculum and it's it's I
would say it's more uh it's more
relevant to the current
education so these three are main then
there are state boards then there is ICC
but all those are on similar lines as
cbsc yeah so when I talk about cbsc then
those state boards and ICC also get
covered yeah uh do I get into details
yeah let's I think uh dive into a little
bit of differences between these boards
and uh which one would be appropriate I
think that kind of structure of uh
teaching in these different curriculums
and right so uh keeping uh your audience
in mind which are more uh you know whove
been staying abroad and now uh planning
to come back to India I'll talk from
that perspective whatever I understand
and then you can probably ask me
questions in case I miss something so
first board I'll take up is
cbsc uh which is India's national board
and which is one of the most Progressive
boards uh in India compared to state
boards and ICC uh ICC is also uh similar
but cbsc has been uh you know making a
lot of changes recently just to uh you
know to evolve with times okay so that
is there uh
and so in this board uh in fact a lot
depends on the school also with the same
board there are some schools who've been
uh doing full work but at majority level
I would say because of the structures
provided by Boards and the guidelines
and the uh objective of the
board uh maximum schools get stuck into
um completing the basic requirements
what are uh What uh the board say and in
fact uh I don't know if it's a mass
knowledge or not the board come comes
into picture only uh in grade 10th n9th
onwards till 8th every school is
independent to implement any curriculum
they want any in any way they want even
the exams are not necessary but because
10th is uh where the cbsc comes in so uh
most schools and it's been a pattern for
a long long time now so most people uh
most schools have in fact uh it's not
just schools schools Publishers the who
the whole system which has gotten
created because of this is that things
have been you know whatever requirements
of cbsc are there in 9th and 10th they
have gotten uh backtracked and whole
curriculum from grade one has been
designed in a way that children
uh face
minimum problems in grade 9th and 10th
yeah but that does not happen so we'll
come back to it
later uh what happens is the board uh
the the education system which got
created uh it's it's uh it's an old
board and a lot of a lot of evolution
hasn't happened over time so the
education system is stuck in the past in
the sense that it's more uh fact based
memory may based which requires a lot of
Road learning so the the system was Bas
more based on memorizing things rather
than understanding and understanding the
Practical Implement implications of what
we are studying yeah so a lot of those
things are still continuing that is
where I see a lot of gap between current
uh needs of the uh needs of the world
and the education
system that uh does not mean that there
are some schools who are not who've not
progressed or who not evolved over time
there are some schools who are uh you
know a Affiliated to cbsc boards board
but they are doing beautiful work but
there are few far in between yeah so in
cbsc boards what is happening the
guidelines from uh the
board and for for 9th and 10th but
depending on that the whole curriculum
gets distributed from grade one onwards
in a way that uh children prepare for
grade 9th and 10th and uh because the
syllabus is
such uh even the amount volume wise
and uh you know and the approach wise is
such that uh and also every school has a
lot of students in each class about 40
odd students in each class so getting
into experiential curriculum which is
the need of the r becomes difficult uh for
for
teachers because of the uh number of
children in each class second the
because of the background from where the
CH uh teachers are coming from they are
also coming from the same background and
even the colleges which offer B and all
they have not evolved so the kind of
teaching pedagogies they come with are
more traditional okay so that is why the
change has been slow and
schools uh because was because of the
size of population India has schools
have always been filled so they did not
even have incentive to change at a pace
which was required
yeah but now what what is happening is
because of the uh introduction of IGCSE
and IB which are more Progressive boards
I'll come to details of
these uh so there's a competition so
even cbsc schools are trying to evolve
okay and even the awareness is more so
the change is happening at a little
faster Pace compared to the past but yes
a lot of changes still required I've
covered a very high overview I would
want you to ask specific questions after
I talk about igcs and IB also in case
required yeah uh so I'll now come to
igcs board it's a board by Cambridge University
University
UK and again this University is a very
old University which has been working in
the field of education for long their uh
curriculum is Progressive more
Progressive than the uh traditional cbsc
curriculum which is there and they
also uh
encourage uh Hands-On experiences more
even the exam paper in fact the biggest
difference between these three boards
the main work of boards is the
assessments the examinations which
happen so the biggest difference between
IG CSC board and cbsc board is the kind
of Assessments they create for students
so cbsc board is more uh so this war
happened in which year or something like
that which they are trying to evolve
igcc curriculum is more thinking based
so it is not about memorizing it is
about uh understanding the level of
child's thinking level of
child's uh problem solving abilities
which is there somewhat more than what
cbsc requires so an igcc board will not
ask a direct question like this that
what was the name of the scientist who
invented something they'll probably go
into the detail like so if uh this
machine is used for say for example
there's a lawn
lawn
mower yeah yeah so lawn mower it is used
to cut the
grass uh do you think there can be other
uses also for this so this is not
something which can be memorized this is
something where you need to apply your
mind and see understand the operation of
the lawnmower and then understand
where else it can be used yeah so those
kind of things it has a little igcs
board has a little different structure
where uh you know uh the age groups are
divided into blocks so um grade 3 to
five is one
block grade uh yeah first second or
kindergarten to second is one block
grade 628 is one block then grade uh 991
and 11 12th is one block okay so that is
how it is there and the outcomes are
defined not
classwise what happens in cbsc here
outcomes are defined blocks wise so in
three years from grade three to five the
board mentions very clearly that and at
the end of grade five this is what we
expect the children to understand and uh
uh this is the level of understanding we
expect from a child and they very
clearly defined parameters in brid board for
for
that and then they have their own
curriculum they have their own books
which are some of them are published by
Cambridge also then some different
Publishers peon is there then some
Indian Publishers are also there so they
take out books for uh The igcs Bard okay
uh now coming to the IB board which is
now becoming popular in India and
elsewhere also IB board compared to
these two boards is the most Progressive
one uh in the sense there has been a lot
of research going and for about how children
children
learn and uh especially uh uh a lot of
care is taken at the pre- primary and
primary level to make education
experiential rather than you know Road
based and rather than you know just
sharing of knowledge sharing of
information that is the last thing uh they
they
suggest uh they talk about that even if
we cover less that is okay but it has to
be more experiential more more practical
where the understanding has to be built
and if you see like you also your
background background is also software
engineering right yeah robotics but I
can understand on the yeah so if we see
that the world has moved a lot and
technology is
changing every couple of years yeah so
we cannot expect to teach the child Java
today and then you know Implement Java 5
years later because the language today
also Java is obsolete the other
languages which have come up so this
board the basic the core of this board
is helping children learn how to learn
instead of learning things it is about
helping children learn how to learn so
that whatever is required after you know
5 7 10 years
they are they have built that skill to
learn the things which are required in
the future which is a very beautiful uh
way of approaching uh the education yeah
I will not talk about implementation
because implementation is very
subjective to the school who is doing it
these are the boards I've talked about
uh like I said that even under cbsc
there are some schools who are doing
beautifully for children there are
schools under IB who are not doing uh
you know implementing it uh that well
also so it's a lot depends on the vision
of the uh head who's running the school
and how much investment in terms of
training their
teachers and ensuring that the quality
is taken care of so that plays a big
part in
ensuring the quality of delivery by the
school go so board wise IB is the most
Progressive one I'll say IG CSC lies
somewhere in the middle and cbsc is
coming from the traditional side but now
trying to evolve yeah thanks a lot for
uh such a detailed overview just to
follow up I think as you uh suggested uh
as you said I think on cbsc the
assessment happens in grade n and 10 I
think pretty much every school try to
design their curriculum so that they are
prepared for that and then I think you
mentioned in the IG CSC it's the blocks
where they have these different blocks
where they do assessment in the IB how
does the assessment work uh relatively
compared to these two and uh I know you
mentioned it's very much independent to
the school in what they want to
implement so what kind of assessment
happens and how does differ from the
other conents so IB has uh gives a lot
of freedom to the school for the
implementation in IB also there are
different blogs like this pyp which is
called primary year programs which is
for children till grade five then middle
year programs myyp which is for grade
sixth and eth then there is uh CP and DP
CP is certificate program for grades 9th
and 10th and DP is diploma program for
grade 11th and 12th
so till grade 8th uh IB
is I IB does not give any structure like
in I cbsc and
IGCSE there is a syllabus prescribed by
uh those boards then there are books
which are based on uh that syllabus
those guidelines which are provided by
those boards
IB just
suggests that uh these skills are to be
developed in the children IB discourages
the use of the books it does not
prescribe any books it suggest every
school to create their own
curriculum for children so that is H
that happens mostly and that is also the
biggest positive they have but also the
biggest uh
challenge face uh they face because
teachers today are not that equipped to
design their own curriculum after
indepth understanding of how children
learn that is where they face a lot of
Challenge and when the board doesn't
give any anchor for them to fall upon to
you know some basic
guidelines that taking those basic
guidelines they can create uh uh
curriculum or they can create uh some
things on their own so
uh so a lot of teachers a lot of schools
struggle big time over there getting it
right so uh that is the challenge and
again yeah all these things will take a
little time till the teacher training
part is taken care of till you know uh a
lot of uh IB is the smallest uh segment
of the schools India has that is why the
focus now is becoming more and more so
with time I see it uh developing and uh
you know with time I see it uh I see
teachers getting more equipped to deal
with this kind of progressive curriculum
but today it's a challenge yeah yeah
yeah so I think in continuing to that
right I think the key thing is the
implementation you know for any of these
curriculums you have highlighted that
there are some schools in cbsc that are
doing very beautifully and you know some
schools in IB struggling even though the
framework might be to be more
Progressive but at the end it depends on
the implementation the teachers training
and so on so how can one parent uh be
able to differentiate which school or
what are the questions that they should
be looking or what what information that
they should see to differentiate school
that's doing well in a particular
curriculum so uh two points come to my
mind first every parent who is uh
planning to put their child in the
school they should meet the head of the
school and understand the vision of that
uh vision of the head what Vision uh do
they have whether it's a he or she do
they have for the
school and second to understand if the
work is happening in that field another
major aspect is to understand how much
investment in terms of
effort time and money they are putting
in teacher
training because teacher training is the
big at the end of the day teacher is
with the children so whatever be the
vision of the head the principal or the
owner the uh the groundwork is done by
the teacher so if that does not get uh
reflected in the teacher the work does
not happen so that is very important to
understand that how much work is
happening on the teacher end and coming
from majority of schools today still do
not consider teacher training uh the
important part of their uh you know
their growth or Evolution though every
curriculum cbsc also suggests a certain
number of days for teacher training but
that happens more as a you know
formality rather than serious effort
there IB uh has their own teacher
training programs which happens again
but the you know the frequency and the
number of trainings needed are much more
than what is currently being being
provided so these two things in any
school are the
biggest uh indicator of uh how the
school will work with students got it so
is there any online portal right to
differentiate because someone who he
hasn't lived in a city so somebody might
be moving to Bangalore or Delhi or
Mumbai and they have been abroad so they
might not be very familiar with the
schools they might get some
recommendations from family but uh it's
a different because you know it's their
own experience with their own kids or uh
someone so is there any online resource
that can tell like these schools are
better that's one aspect from a rating
and then the other one is like some of
the Practical questions that they can
ask to differentiate which are good
schools or which are not so good schools
so that they can make a right decision
uh when choosing one so I'll take your
questions one by one if I come to the
first question that is there any online
portal I am afraid I don't know of any
and uh second thing is it is very
difficult to uh you know objectively put
these things uh on any platform
because if we ask 100 parents of the
same school there would be mixed reviews
yeah some will say the school is good
some will say the school is you know not
so good some will say the school is
depending on their individual
experiences that depend a lot on the
teacher who teaching the children or
probably on some other experiences which
they have had so it's very difficult to
uh you know uh
objectively put uh these things on and
this will happen with the best of school
this will happen with the worst of
school that will so
uh just sitting online and deciding is a
very difficult task and most people go
by Word of Mouth which happens in every
field so if somebody asks me sitting in
US asks me which is a good school I'll
say XYZ is a good school so it gets
imprinted in their mind that XYZ z i can consider
consider yeah
yeah
uh but there the problem lies is that
uh the awareness amongst parents is also
low about what is a good school most
people go by The Branding the you know
again the the result they have been
giving for years and the result is
mostly in terms of you know what
percentage of their children are getting
what percentage of marks in 10th and
12th yeah which again is not the right indicator
indicator
especially in today's age because marks
are becoming less and less important and
skills are becoming more and more
important so it's a challenge yes for
any school any parent to understand that
is where uh the help of an expert uh
would help uh I see uh a lot of parents
like I'm am based in Delhi so Delhi has
a lot of
schools and there are schools who are
running on traditional uh
pedagogies they have been uh over you
know uh inundated by the applications
they receive and then you know they
select some and people die for getting
into those schools without
understanding that this knowledge or
this kind of skills might not be
required 10 year hence or 12 year hence
when their students move out of the
school but that is happening and that is the
the
reality so uh that is a challenge I
would say and I don't know what exactly
the solution to this is as of now okay
so it's mostly like I think there's no
set of questions it's just talking to
the head of school understanding their
vision and seeing the implementation of
certain framework what they're doing for
that exper like you know that learning
methodology and so on so yeah yes uh so
uh uh one thing I would say is that
because of the Frameworks and because of
the uh the the uh way these boards are
created there's a general tendency that
IB board will be doing some things right
whatever be the case cbsc board unless
they are putting in some effort they
would be doing certain things
traditionally whatever be the case so if
somebody has to take a broad
decision uh I would personally
especially from primary to Middle years
opt for an IB
School considering that some things
because they are coming from the top so
some things would be aligned whether or
not the implementation happens at
whatever level yeah but that is a very
very Broad
uh understanding I'm giving that does
not mean that IB is blindly right or
wrong yeah understood so uh especially
like a each curriculum has a different
language requirements the first language
second language and so on like maybe the
third language is there but it might not
be mandatory in terms of assessment uh
but it might be mandatory from a state
level to learn so for kids who have
grown up uh abroad and who is who are
not very familiar with some local
language from a reading and writing uh
each curriculum has their requirements
from a language like first language
second language so some have flexibility
to choose Spanish or French or not like
a local language or there might be some
that requires to be familiar with the
local language so on a high level on the
language requirements because a lot of
people think that IB provides more
flexibility from a language if somebody
is not familiar with it um but I don't
know if it's that is completely true
because I think I don't know if cbsc
offers some sort of some flexibility
also uh so if we can shed some light on
that I think that would be
great so now all the board in fact
English in most of these schools I would
say is the primary language in which the
curriculum is taught in almost all the
schools whether it is IB igcc or
cbsc uh recently the National Education
policy which came which also mandates
the uh introduction of regional language
especially at the primary level uh for
children so that is there but I am not
aware of how many schools are implementing
implementing
that uh but language wise I would state
that because people are coming from
outside English I assume that everybody
is comfortable with so all curriculum is
in English except for for the language
where apart from English would be a
mandatory language with English there
would be one Regional language which uh
they can opt for or one Regional
language in cbsa schools might be a must
so that Regional language would be their
Region's language and I assume that if
somebody is settling in Gujarat so they
have roots in Gujarat so the child might
not understand Gujarati but the parents
might be uh familiar with reading and
writing of Gujarati so but yes with the
child directly coming in third or fourth
might be a challenge Because unless
their parents have made a conscious
effort to you know in
Gujarati if they are living outside so
that would be a challenge but then the
parent uh will have to help or uh the
school will have to help or uh some
external help if required parents can
take that will have to be there
otherwise I don't see any challenge uh
in terms of languages in any of the
boards got it yeah so that is something
which is well take taken care of all all
kind all boards offer flexibility in
opting for different languages after you
know if a child wants an additional
language all these boards have multiple
options but then
the limitation comes at the level of the
school in all three boards so if the
school is only offering Spanish and
German then the child cannot off for
Sanskrit or off for you know uh say
French if it is not there or of for
Russian if it is not there that is more
of a resource problem because every
school cannot keep a teacher for every
language but I think the takeaway is
even cbsc has that flexibility at the
end it depends on the school uh Which
languages they want to offer more from a
resource availability perspective right
right right got it um so the other
question I wanted to check with you is
you know especially someone who is
learning in a different style right I
think you a progressive and know
different ways of learning I think as
you explained with the different
curriculums uh how are things post 12th
grade right in terms of uh studies I
know it's a general concept that people
who study in IB most probably study
abroad you know cbsc is designed to be
prepared for competitive exams that are
more applicable for Indian institutions
and so on so maybe my question is more
specific on people who have their kids
in IB or IG CSC how well are they
prepared for any of the examinations for
Indian institutions and also do they
have any options to to study in any
Indian institutions you know maybe some
other way not like through this
competitive examinations or there's some
institution that offers graduation or
undergrad or graduation programs in
India so I'll divide this question in
two categories for the parents whose
children are in primary levels whether
first second third fourth for those
parents they need not worry because all
the systems are changing even the you
know uh for graduation initially it used
to be marks which are scored in
different uh in the board which was the
main primary uh criteria but now slowly
that has been taken care of now it is
the exam uh the entrance exam which
happens and the pattern of entrance exam
is also getting involved so by the time
these children reach that level nobody
is aware what the uh you know exam
pattern would be but yes
there's a logical and there's a very uh
there's a sense that it would go more
towards practical
applications which happens in all these
schools so for for parents who have
their children in primary uh level I
don't think there's a need to worry at
all for the children who for the parents
whose children are gr six
onwards so
uh I would say that
uh for for parents whose children are in
9 10th 11
12th uh yes for going internationally IB
board is a very good Launchpad in the
sense that the their curriculum from
grade 9th is very research oriented and
very uh very
rigorous so there a child starts getting
into to real life projects from grade 9th
9th
onwards and very practical knowledge
they start gaining which is required and
which is appreciated by universities
outside so yes it is a
Launchpad uh there it also becomes a
challenge because they have not uh
theyve not gone through the system which
is required for you know Indian
universities or getting into engineering
or medical so yes they face a challenge
uh there for that they need to overcome
it by you know other ways like you know
preparing for the these exams from
somewhere or that is required uh for
cbsc school again for the parents whose
children are in Grade 9 10 11 12 uh the
the system is such that they uh in fact
major of majority of these children also
opt for other classes for entrance exams
because the course
curriculum no doubt is on similar lines
but the level of difficulty or the level
of complexity is different in fact that
is one of my concern that uh the level
of complexity in exams is getting lower
by the years so that is that is not a
good sign of Education in general it has
to test the understanding of the child
and so which is still not happening okay
no yeah thanks for that so I know I'm
just being cognizant about the time I
know there are a lot more topics that I
wanted to talk to you especially the
homeschooling and you know some of the
things that are evolving in the Indian
uh you know the system with the
curriculums and so on uh I'm sure I
think we will connect again and talk
about those and I really appreciate you
taking that time and sharing your
insights and this is very very helpful
for all lot of families I think uh to
have a broad understanding of these
different curcums what to think about
what to ask when they're looking for
schools uh it's a lot of valuable
Insight from your side so thank you very
much for taking the time and sharing
your thoughts on this thank you so much
Avinash it's my pleasure I would be
happy to help in whatever way uh it is possible
possible [Music]
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