This content explores the nature of self-talk, particularly negative inner chatter, and provides practical, research-backed strategies to manage it effectively, transforming the inner critic into a supportive coach.
Mind Map
Click to expand
Click to explore the full interactive mind map • Zoom, pan, and navigate
If you experience worry, rumination, if
you find your inner critic activating at
times, there's nothing wrong with you.
We evolve the capacity to experience
negative emotions for a reason. Why did
I do this? Why didn't I do it that way?
You idiot. How could you do this? You're
worthless. We think about the whatifs.
What if this happens? What if that
happens? And before you know it, you
know, life is over.
over.
Here's what I hope everyone takes away
from this. Okay, three things. Number
one, you'll be able to take your inner
critic and turn it into an inner coach.
Number two, if you ever find yourself
falling down the rabbit hole of
rumination and worry, we're going to
give you some lifelines to pull yourself
out. And then number three, wow. So, we
got our work cut out for us. That's a
tall order. Yeah, we better get started.
Well, I've read your book, so I know you
can deliver on that. So Ethan, what
exactly is that voice that's in our head
that's chattering 4,000 words of it? So
when scientists like myself use use this
phrase self-t talk or the inner voice,
what we're talking about is we've never
heard anybody explain selft talk and
that inner voice in a way that I
actually get it. What is the solution?
Is there a simple way to shut it up in
order to just silence all of this
negative selft talk or is this a much
more complicated thing that we need to
take on? The most important thing to do is
Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to
the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so fired
up for our conversation today. I'm so
excited that you're here. It is always
such an honor to spend time together and
to be with you. And if you're a new
listener, I just want to take a moment
and personally welcome you to the Mel
Robbins podcast family. I'm thrilled
that you're here. And because you made
the time to hit play and listen to this
particular episode, it tells me
something about you. It tells me that
you're the kind of person who wants to
take control of your inner voice. And
you want to learn how to be more
encouraging and positive, especially
when it comes to yourself. And you know
what? I think that's amazing because I
want to learn how to do that, too. And
if you're listening right now or you're
watching on YouTube because someone
shared this with you, I want to take a
minute and point out to you that that
means that you've got someone in your
life that really cares about you. And
so, thank you for trusting them and
thank you for being here. And this is a
home run of a podcast episode for you to
listen to or watch because Dr. Ethan
Cross is in the house. He is a
psychologist and a neuroscientist and
he's been a pioneering researcher in the
field of selft talk and emotions for 25
years. Ethan Cross is also a professor
at the University of Michigan where he
has taught for the past 17 years. He is
also the founder and the director of the
research institute at the University of
Michigan, the emotion and self-control
laboratory. His work has appeared in
esteemed journals like science and the
New England Journal of Medicine. He
earned his PhD from Columbia University
and he is also the author of two
best-selling books, Chatter, The Voice
in Our Head: Why It Matters and How to
Harness It. And his latest bestselling
book is called Shift: Managing Your
Emotions So They Don't Manage You. His
books have been translated into over 40
languages, and today he's going to
unpack the insights so that you can use
this research to stop the negative selft
talk. So, please help me welcome Dr.
Ethan Cross to the Mel Robbins podcast.
Thank you for hopping on a plane and
being here in our Boston studios. I
cannot wait to dig into your work in
your uh bestselling book, Chatter. And
of course, congratulations on your new
book, Shift. It's so exciting to have
you here. Well, it's a it's an absolute
honor to be here with you. you know,
I've been um listening to you for quite
some time, and the the compatibility
between a lot of what you talk about and
um what I write about and do research on
couldn't couldn't be better. So, um just
an honor to be here. Awesome. Well,
let's just jump right into it. And
here's how I want to start. I would love
to have you. Do you want me to call you
Professor Cross? Ethan, what do you
like? I love Ethan. Okay, Ethan. We're
going with Ethan. Yeah. Ethan, I would
love to have you speak directly to the
person who's here spending time together
with us right now and tell them exactly
what they could expect to have be
different about their life if they take
everything that you're about to teach us
about our self-t talk, about our
emotions to heart and they put it to use
in their life. Here's what I here's what
I hope everyone takes away from this.
Okay, three things. Number one, you'll
be able to take your inner critic and
turn it into an inner coach. Number two,
if you ever find yourself falling down
the rabbit hole of rumination and worry,
we're going to give you some lifelines
to pull yourself out so you can actually
use your mind to solve your problems
rather rather than just get stuck in
them. And then number three, more
broadly, we're going to give you lots of
really pragmatic, tactical tools, simple
to use tools that you can use to really
master your emotions. So, if you want to
turn the volume on them up or down or
shorten or lengthen how long they last
or even switch from one emotional state
to another, we're going to give you some
guideposts that that steer you in the
right direction. Wow. So, we got our
work cut out for us. That's a tall
order. Yeah, we better get started.
Well, I've read your book, so I know you
can deliver on that. Uh, you know, you
have been at the University of Michigan.
You are the founding director and have
been running this incredible lab, the
emotion and self-control lab. What is
it? What has it taught to you? What do
you want us to know? The first thing
that I've learned over the past 25 or so
years doing research in this space is if
you ever find yourself going down that
vortex of doom and despair or anxiety or
or even overcome with other negative
emotions that don't really feel good in
the moment. Welcome to the human
condition. We all do at times. And I
think that's a really important point
for people to take home because I can't
tell you how many people I meet who who
really feel bad about themselves when
they find themselves slipping into one
of those emotional
states. We evolve the capacity to
experience negative emotions for a
reason. And we'll talk more about that
today. When they're experienced in the
right proportions, they can be useful.
So number one, if you experience worry,
rumination, if you find your inner
critic activating at
times, there's nothing wrong with you.
To the contrary, I would argue there's
everything right with you. Number two,
there are no onesizefits-all solutions
for managing these states that we want
to bring more under our control.
We have evolved to possess lots and lots
of different tools. And I think the key
to managing our emotional lives more
effectively involves learning about what
all those tools are and then figuring
out what are the unique combinations
that work for you based on who you are
as a unique individual. It's a lot like
in in my mind's physical fitness. Lots
of people have the goal to be physically
fit. But the way they get there can be
radically different compared to other
people and the same is true when it
comes to if we want to call it emotional
fitness. You got to learn about all the
different machines in the gym and then
you got to figure out what are the
exercises that work for me based on who
I am and what my goals are. Well, let's
start with going down the rabbit hole.
Yeah. Because you know your first
bestselling book, Chatter, the voice in
our head, why it matters and how to
harness it. When is the last time you
went down the rabbit hole? Oh boy. Like
you seem like a such chill guy like like
super tortured yourself about worry or
negative thoughts.
Um probably
um maybe a couple of months ago. Um the
you know and it was linked with um one
of my daughters. Are you going to get in
trouble for telling the story? I'm I'm
actively I'm actively monitoring. Now
he's going down the rabbit hole. My wife
is going to kill me. Yes. Yes. No. Um um
this is something I'm used to
experiencing. No, this is this is fair
to say. So, um my my youngest daughter
was um was applying to get into the same
school as my oldest daughter. And um
when my oldest daughter was applying to
get into a school, you know, there was
okay, if it works out, great. And if
not, no big deal. But now with the
second daughter, there's a social
comparison element here. and you know,
she has this older sister that she looks
up to and admires. And so I'm thinking,
well, what would happen if she doesn't
get in? And she fortunately did get in.
And it was a a great relief. But I did I
did find myself going down the rabbit
hole uh on occasion playing the what if this
this
happens. And you know, I should say that
when I do that, when I go down the
rabbit hole of despair, which I can get
stuck in every now and again, like like
the best of us, um, it always amazes me
how exceptionally adept we are at
brainstorming endless worst case
scenarios to our problems. Uh, I mean,
have you experienced this yourself?
Every day. Like, I mean, you're like
saying a couple months ago. I'm like,
dude, like if you ask me that question,
I'd be like about an hour ago. But it is
true because we are so good at thinking
about the negative and imagining the
worst case scenarios, but we're not so
great at imagining that things could go
right. That's right. Well, there's a
there's what we call this negativity
bias. Uh, one of my favorite titles of a
paper in in psychology is bad is
stronger than good. Um, one of our few
Nobel Prize winners won a Nobel Prize
for discovering that we're more
sensitive to losses than we are gains in
our lives. And that all makes sense if
you think about it. The the bad things
in life have the potential to harm us or
derail our lives a lot more than the
good things. So we should be more
sensitive to them. But sometimes that
oversensitivity to the bad stuff can
really lead us astray especially because
no one ever teaches us about how to
rewrite the ship when we find it going
in the wrong path. Well, one of the
things that you said that I am excited
is you said I'm going to teach you how
to turn your inner critic into a coach.
And I would love to start with this
amazing book chatter and all your
research about the voice in our head.
And I want to read a part of your book
to you. Sure. Because this was
jaw-dropping to me. So our verbal stream
of thoughts, our selft talk is so
industrious that according to one study,
we internally talk to ourselves at a
rate equivalent to speaking
4,000 words a minute. And to put this
into perspective, I crunched the
numbers. 4,000 words a minute is the
equivalent of reading the first book in
the Harry Potter series in less than 20
minutes. So when we think, we are not
always thinking in full sentences. We're
thinking in these sound bites that have
deep meaning. And when you spell out
what those sound bites are equivalent
to, you get essays in your mind. And I'm
sure you've you've you've felt this kind
of bombardment of information when you
find yourself going down that rabbit
hole. It's like our mind is pinballing
all over the place verbally and and
we're we're just inundated which is in
part why when we find ourselves kind of
racked with chatter it can it can feel
so so oppressive. Um this is one of the
reasons why writing about our
experiences doing something we call
expressive writing can be so helpful for
folks because it helps us organize our
thoughts so that we're not pinballing
all around. You know, you're right that
the key to beating this negative self-t
talk and this chatter in our head isn't
to stop talking to yourself. The
challenge is to figure out how to do so
more effectively. But before we can get
into how to control the voice in our
head, we need to answer a more basic
question. Why do we have one in the
first place? So, Ethan, what is selft
talk? And what exactly is that voice
that's in our head that's chattering
4,000 words a minute? Yeah. So I love I
love this question. So um so when
scientists like myself use use this
phrase self-t talk or the inner voice,
what we're talking about is our ability
to silently use language to reflect on
our lives. And it turns out that is a
remarkable tool that we possess for
navigating this crazy world. So let me
like flag four key functions that this
ability to use language silently
provides. Um, number
one, we're we're the same vintage here,
you know, age- wise, more or less. Um,
When we were growing up, what would you
do when you wanted to remember a phone
number or a name?
Um, well, if I didn't have a pen and
couldn't write it down, I would repeat
it over and over and over again in your
head. Yes. Yeah. So, or I'd come up with
like rhymes or like I to try to remember
it, right? So that's that's probably the
most basic function that your inner
voice serves for us. It's part of what
we call our verbal working memory
system. Wait, so that's what the basic
of your inner voice is is to help you
remember things. That's that's one
function it serves. So you could think
of your inner voice as like a Swiss Army
knife, multi-purpose tool. It does many
different things for you. So one and
oftentimes death by a thousand cuts.
We're going to get there. We're going to
get there. Don't you don't you worry.
So, number one, memorizing a phone
number, repeating a phone number,
repeating a name, going to the grocery
store and asking yourself, "What was I
supposed to buy? Milk, cheese, yogurt. I
guess I'm in the dairy aisle." But the
whole point here is you're doing that
silently, typically, not out loud.
That's one thing your inner voice lets
you do. Another thing your inner voice
lets you do, simulate and plan. So
before an well you do a lot of
presentations for for as part of your
job. You ever go over what you're going
to say before you go on stage in your
head always. Okay. That's your inner
voice. You are you are silently
rehearsing preparing simulating for what
you need to do. You know what else I use
that I just realized? When I'm packing
for a trip I'm like thinking ahead to
where I'm going and what I'm going to
need. There you go. So that's that's
another you're simulating and planning.
People do this before um interviews
before consequential conversations that
they uh are going to have. I am not as
good at giving a presentation if I don't
do this simulation
beforehand. My favorite function. So the
name of my lab at University of Michigan
is the Michigan emotion and self-control
lab. I love the topic of
self-control. We use our inner voice to
control and motivate ourselves. So all
right. So Mel, tell me what what do you
do to exercise?
Oh, keep going. Okay. I I because of
some of the experts we've had on the
show, I now lift weights. Okay. I walk.
I do yoga and pilates. Okay. Um I have
like a super active lifestyle outside.
But if but if I'm quote exercising, I
have to drag myself to the gym and then
I use an app to mo motivate myself.
Okay. And and that's what I do. Do you
ever talk to yourself when you're
exercising? All the time. I like I did
this morning in a
class. Hate this. Why are we on our
hands? I don't want to do a pike right
now. Um I feel like I'm in a gym class
with a woman who's talking like this and
who's like screaming at me like
screaming and why is she playing ACD at
6:30 in the morning? I thought this was
a freaking Pilates class. Like so it was
literally like I'm saying that to
myself. Um, as she would walk closer, I
would think, "Get away from me." You
know, go to the other side of the room.
So, I or I'm thinking, "This is too
heavy. I'm tired. I want to quit." I
see. Clearly, I don't have a lot of
willpower and discipline because my
chatter is a constant barrage of why I
should stop doing what I'm actually
doing. We have room for intervention
here, do we? We have tons of room. We
are going to make If you're already
doing fine in the gym, we're going to
make you do a lot better by the time
this episode is over. So, that's another
thing. If you're listening, you're going
to take home with you. So, so it's
possible if you are constantly against
yourself. Absolutely. You can you can
change your self talk. So, so but if we
just go back to a second, this is one of
my favorite questions to ask people when
I'm when I'm giving talks on this stuff.
I just kind of scan the room for what do
you say to yourself when you're
exercising? Lots of people talk to
themselves and what they say varies
tremendously from what you just
described to come on, you got this to I
really want a bagel right now and and
and and so on and so forth. And and we
know that people who are skilled at
harnessing this voice to be motivating
and encouraging, they actually perform
better in those contexts. So um so I I
knowing this
stuff am very strategic about how I
harness myself talk when I'm exercising.
I will be motivating. Come on man,
you've got this. That's right. I refer
to myself in the second and third
person. We'll talk more about how that
works. I als I also can become
um somewhat in my head uh aggressive
towards the instructor that is telling
me to do painful things. Oh, like the
woman that I was like you were just
describing. So for me, I find it, well,
why don't you try doing that, you know,
like I don't like the way you're talking
to me. You know, I want to do it this. I
don't say that out loud. I smile out
loud, but in my head, right, I'm having
that kind of conversation. So, so the
point here is another thing your inner
voice helps you do is control and
motivate yourself. The fourth and final
thing I want to flag here, to me, I
describe this as the most magical
feature of our inner voice. Um, your
inner voice helps us make sense of this
messy world that we live in. We are
bombarded by things all the time that
have the potential to lead us
astray. We get rejected. We get into
arguments. We experience anxiety about
what may come. And when those different
kinds of curve balls get thrown at us,
what we do is we often stop and we try
to okay, how do we make sense of this so
we could get back on on track of living
our lives? And we make meaning, we use
our inner voice to try to to try to make
sense of our our circumstances to
essentially create a story that helps us
understand what we're going through and
who we are. So your inner voice is
actually shaping your sense of self. So,
if we just pause here and zoom out, your
inner voice helps you do things as
simple as reminding yourself what's on
your grocery list and memorizing a phone
number when you're repeating in your
head to simulating and planning for the
future to controlling and motivating
yourself to making
meaning. If I told someone I could give
you a tool that does all of those things
like these are the things that are
really important to us in life. Your
inner voice is central to all of those
things. It's an invaluable tool that you
do not want to live life without. The
big question of course that really got
me into this business in the first place
was on the one hand we have this remarkable
remarkable
capability. We reach for it when we're
struggling but as you know as I know as
you who are listening knows oftenimes we
don't activate this voice and get clear
solutions to how to move
on. we just start stumbling. We start
looping over our problems in an attempt
to work through them or we start
berating ourselves incessantly for
mistakes that are endemic to to human
life. And when that happens, I think
that is one of the big problems we face
as a species. And as I have said before,
I say that not to scare or
sensationalize. I say it based on what I
know of the data. Because if you look at
what chatter, which I define as the the
negative manifestation of your inner
voice, when it turns into that negative
thought looping, that
self-perate, that just tanks us. It
makes it hard for us to think and
perform. It creates friction in our
relationships, and it undermines our
health and well-being. These are the
things we care about in our in our
lives. And so, that's why I think it's
just critical to address it. I have
never heard anybody explain selft talk
and that inner voice so elegantly and in
a way that I actually get it. Well,
thank you. I mean it is truly remarkable
when you take a 30,000 ft view and think
about what does our chatter look like?
What does it sound like? I mean, we say
things to ourselves that many people not
only wouldn't say to a buddy, right? We
often talk about that how, you know,
talk to yourself like you would talk to
someone else. This is a great tool, by
the way. We'll talk more about that
later. We sometimes say things to
ourselves that we are ashamed to even
say out loud. Sometimes when I do
exercises, workshops with groups or
students, I'll sometimes invite people
to just write down their chatter on a
piece of paper. And it's really
remarkable. People are often reluctant
to even put in writing what they're
think even when I assure them like the
shredder's right here. There's another
garbage bag with lighter fluid. Like not
bag, garbage can, right? You can I'm I'm
joking here, but like no one is going to
look at this, right? Just admitting to
what is happening up here can be so
challenging for folks and I think that
speaks to the gravity of what we're
talking about. What are some of the
examples of negative selft talk that
just show up again and again? I think
hearing it from you would really
validate it for me and for the person
who's with us right now because if we
don't if we're reluctant to even be
honest with ourselves and put it on
paper. Yeah. What can you validate based
on the fact that this is your area of
expertise? It's what you research that
you see over and over and over again
that are examples of negative selft
talk. So there there are three three key
forms. Number one, what I call
rumination, which is going over the
past, something you did in the past, you
can't fix it, right? But you just keep
turning it over and over in your mind.
Why did I do this? Why didn't I do it
that way? What implications might this
have moving forward? So rumination is
getting lost in this thought. It's a
legitimate issue from the past and
you're trying to work through it, but
you just keep turning it over and over.
You're not making any progress. That's
often a telltale sign of chatter.
Legitimate issue. You want to work
through it, but you don't make progress.
So it could be like, just to give it
even a more fine point, it could be that
you really screwed up in a relationship
and now you're telling yourself the one
got away or you you made dumb financial
decisions. this was me and and now it's
I'm why did I do that? I I I should have
started with my 401k like my father told
me when I graduated from college like d
like just hammering yourself into the
ground. How did I let myself go? I
should have like I I I've just now it's
too late. I I've been drinking like all
that kind of stuff that's in the past.
And and why is this such a predominant
form of selft talk for people? Well,
it's a predominant form because I often
think that we we navigate life in an
ideal sense on autopilot. We just kind
of want to live the life, you know,
knowing that the world is is is orderly,
it's safe, it's predictable. And then
when we encounter some some challenge to
that view that the world is safe, that
everything's okay, it's like an alarm
gets hit in our brains that says, "Stop.
Pay attention. Fix this."
And so then we zoom in really narrowly
on what the impediment is. And so maybe
it's something from the past and we keep
focusing on it until we can resolve it.
Often times though, we don't know how to
resolve it. We just keep on playing it
over and over in our minds and then the
alarm button stays pressed and we just
get into this rut of turning it over and
over and over. And we don't some of us
don't want to let go of that e either
because at least if we're focusing on it
that's step one but in the process of
doing that we're we're really harming
ourselves we're making it very
challenging to think and perform. I
mean, have you ever get gotten stuck in
rumination and then tried to have a
conversation with someone or read a book
only to find that you're physically
there or you're reading the information
on the page but nothing is penetrating
cuz your mind is somewhere else? Oh,
completely. Absolutely. Like if I get
into that loop where I am obsessing over
something that I think I did wrong, I
can't do anything else. Exactly. So
think that's that's thinking and
performance, right? like that is a major
major obstacle to being successful in
life if if your ability to really hone
your attention now is lost. And the way
that works, just if you want to geek out
with me for 30 seconds, sure, um our
ability to focus is limited. We have
these limited attentional resources.
They are um they're they're subserved by
our prefrontal cortex, the front part of
our brains. And chatter acts like a
sponge that soaks up all of those
attentional resources and it leaves very
little left over to do the things that
we often want and need to do. Whether
that be just pay attention to the person
we're talking to or read the chapter in
the book and absorb the information.
That's one of the way it really sinks
us. So, so you asked though like how
does chatter manifest? Rumination about
the past is one. Uh another one that
will be familiar to everyone in the
world or most of us is is worry right we
we worry about the future. We think
about the whatifs. We are what if
machines we can easily what if this
happens what if that happens and before
you know it you know life is over.
Right. Right. And that goes really fast.
So worrying is is getting stuck in these
negative thought loops typically about
the present and future relation. the
rumination. The first the first is the
past. The second form of selft talk is
getting stuck in a negative loop talking
to yourself about the future. What's the
third form? The third form that is very
common to folks is this self beratement.
This kind of like you idiot you know you
know how could you do this you're
worthless. So this kind of inner critic
is another manifestation of it. It can however
however
take different forms. So chatter really
is this process of just looping looping
negative information over and over. If
you're being super critical about
yourself like that that's very common.
Sometimes it can be just
um anxiety, right? You're you're looping
over what if this happens, what if this
happens. And so it's really this looping
of negative stuff. It's like you keep on
getting hit over and over and over. You
said it before. I think you said death
by a thousand cuts. Yeah, that's what it
can feel like when you just start
hammering yourself. ing, right? Like
it's exhausting. People often who are
experiencing chatter, they they report
just like being fatigued. Now, I want to
be clear also, y we all have this um
capability of experiencing chatter at
times. And and just because you do
doesn't mean there's anything wrong with
you. Again, this is normative. If it if
it morphs into the extreme state that is
like the volume is super high and it's
on for long stretches of time like more
than two weeks then we get into the more
um you know clinical state but but what
we're talking about here today is really
this is just true of human beings and
how we operate and again a big big part
of what I hope to do in talking to you
about this and sharing the science is to
convey first and foremost that this is normal
normal
This is just part of this messy world
that we live in. We have these
tendencies to slip into the states. That
doesn't mean there's anything wrong with
you. The opportunity though is to learn
about what you can do to help yourself
when you go down this path. If you don't
want to stay stay on it, Ethan, what is
the solution? I mean, now that you're
you're exposing all the negative selft
talk, I mean, is there a simple way to
shut it up or a magic wand you can wave
in order to just silence all of this
negative selft talk or is this a much
more complicated thing that we need to
take on? Well, there's not one simple
thing that everyone can do. Um, I don't
like that answer. Yes, I'm sure you
don't. But I'm going to I'm going to
give There goes my negative chatter
right out my mouth at you. But but but
but I'm going to give you there are lots
of simple things you can do is the way
to think about it. Oh, I like that. So,
um yeah, you should there's a lot of
hope. There's a lot there's a lot you
can feel bummed. I I think you should
feel good when I tell you that there's
not one thing you can do to manage your
chatter. Because here's what often
happens when you give people one
solution. They try it. That one thing
doesn't work for them. And now they
think, "What's wrong with me? M why is
this working for everyone else but not
me? We just published some research not
too long ago that looked at how people
dealt with their anxiety during the
COVID pandemic. So we did these large
studies. We tracked people over time and
every day we had them rate their co
anxiety and we had them indicate which
of something like 18 different tools
they used. Now all we wanted to know was
well what are the tools that are moving
the needle? Yeah. So, what was really
interesting about that study was there
was no individual tool that moved the
needle on people's anxiety. It was only
like when you used a combination of
tools. It's like curling biceps didn't
do it on its own. You had to do bicep
curls, push-ups, and sit-ups. Right.
Right. Except for journaling. Journaling
was the one tool that alone moved the
needle on people's anxiety.
However, it was also the most
infrequently used tool of all the tools
we ask people about. How does that make
sense? Yeah. Why? It's
effortful to sit down for 15 to 20
minutes and actually write. There's also
a vulnerability to putting it out there.
And so, I think teaching people about
that is really useful, too, because that
could be a powerful tool for folks. So,
do you have a favorite journal prompt
that's helpful for starting the process
of identifying your negative chatter?
What is it? Yeah. Um, well, for me, it's
like straight out of the pages of of of
the the literature. So, I tell people to
um write about your deepest thoughts and
feelings about whatever it is that's
bothering you. Really let yourself go.
Don't worry about punctuation or
grammar. Write continuously for 15 or 20
minutes. Now, what do we learn from the
time we're young about stories? They
have a beginning, a middle, and an end.
So what writing does is it gives these
guideposts to help you take this like
jumble of crap in our minds which are
making us nuts. Yes. And we're
organizing it. And that's the beauty of
of what we call expressive writing. So
the whole idea here is that we have this
remarkable set of tools that we can
leverage to help us work through our
chatter. But we need to know what those
tools are. And what what really
mystifies me is we don't get a users's
guide for where to find these tools and
a user's guide that teaches us how to
use it when we are born into this world.
We're born into the world with the
ability to experience this chatter or
this emotion dysregulation, but no one
no one teaches us how to use it or how
to how to manage it until now. Yeah. And
there is hope. There's absolutely hope.
What I I find it liberating to know that
there are so many different tools that I
can bring to bear to deal with the different
different
circumstances that I might encounter. um
you know my emotional life is utterly
distinct. It's like a fingerprint,
right? It's very different from yours
and every other human being on this
planet. So why would we expect the same
single tool to work for every single one
of us given how unique we are? My
grandfather was a a master carpenter and
I remember distinctly like when he would
show up to a job site, he would show up
with this remarkable set of tools. this
toolkit. No matter what problem he
encountered on the job site, no matter
what he needed to do, he had a tool, a
general, you know, he knew how to use
these tools and he could wield them to
solve the problem. If he showed up with
just a hammer, you'd be out of business.
And that's how I think about tools. You
want to give people those basic tools
that exist for pushing our emotions
around. And once you have them, you've
got a great resource. you've got like I
I I mean I'm looking at 12 tools that
you can use personally. There are tools
for getting other people to support you.
There's tools for receiving support. Let
me start with the first one. Use
distanced selft talk. One way to create
distance when you're experiencing
chatter involves language. So what is
distance selft talk and how do I use it
when I'm going down the rabbit hole? And
and you know I' I've actually heard you
use this on prior podcasts and you
weren't even aware of it. That's right.
How? So, can you think about times when
you might have coached yourself through
a problem using your own name and you
Oh, you mean like talking like like
saying to myself, well, come on. Yeah,
there you go. That's that's distant
selft talk. You just did distance selft
talk. So, distance selft talk involves
using your name and you to typically
silently coach yourself through a
problem. You could do it out loud, but
if you do it out loud, you want to be
aware of who's listening because it
violates um social norms to not only to
talk to ourselves out loud, but use our
own name to do it. Um we talked before
and you've talked before
about how much better we are at giving
advice to other people than we are
taking that advice ourselves. Uh little
factoid there, there's actually a name
for that phenomenon that we've we've
studied this in my lab. It's called
Solomon's Paradox. Solomon's Paradox,
named after the Bible's King Solomon.
Here, I'm going to give you another pop
quiz. Don't get nervous if you get it
wrong. If you get it No, I think you
will. I I think you will. So, what was
King Solomon famous for? I have no idea.
Being a king. Being wise. Oh, being
wise. He's wise. He was a wise guy. So,
um, King Solomon, like super wise
individual. people would travel from all
over the world to to receive his his
counsel. But when you look at his own
life, he made a slew of terrible
decisions. This is true of of humanity.
Like when I ask audiences, hey, are you
much better at at giving advice to
others and taking that advice yourself?
Every hand in the in the room goes
up. We when you use distant selft talk
what it's doing is you're using language
to automatically shift your perspective
to put you into this I'm talking to
someone else advice giving mode. Think
about the word you. The word you is the verbal
verbal
equivalent of pointing a finger at
someone else. Most of the time we use
the word you. It's when we're thinking
about or referring to another person. So
when you use the example of being in the
gym and one purpose of your selft talk
is motivation. Yeah. And you say, "Come
on, Ethan. You got this." That's an
example of using positive motivating
self talk using this distanced language.
That's exactly right. You're putting
yourself into this coach advice giving
mode, right? And what did we say
earlier? We we we we don't say to our
friends the things that we say to
ourselves when we get stuck in that
chatter. So when you use your own name
and you to coach yourself through a
problem, it's like it's putting guard
rails up on your selft talk that
prevents you from going down that that
more negative route. Can you give me a
couple examples of just generic positive
distance language for somebody
that hyperfocuses on the mistakes they
make or like saying that I'm never going
to be good enough, never like what what
are some examples of just things people
could start to say to themselves? Ethan,
all people make mistakes. You've you've
made mistakes before. You've learned
from them and you'll be fine. Oh, that's
nice. Yeah, that's that's a nice thing
to say to yourself rather than I'm such
an idiot. I'm such a I mean, you have
to, you know, I mentioned before we
started filming that I grew up in
Brooklyn, New York, and although you may
not hear the accent right now, um, in my
mind when I go into the chatter zone,
it's a filthy sometimes inner
beratement. Um, and so I'm not doing
that when when I'm in distant selft talk
mode. So give me another positive one.
So So really what we see happening is
you get into this more challenge
orientation. I can manage this. I can do
it. As opposed to being in what we call
threat mode. I can't manage this. I'm
gonna screw up. So, another example
would be um one of my favorites from a
study was um someone was was thinking
about having to plan a huge event for
someone and it was really really
stressful. You can do this. You can
manage this retirement party for this
person and get a great
turnout. People are going to come and
and they're going to love it. You've got
this. Um, you know, in my book, I
actually I share an artifact from Mr.
Rogers. Remember Mr. Rogers? Of course.
He he was the um You're sitting in 143
Studios, which was his favorite number.
Really? Uhhuh. Wow. There is some cosmic
connection that led me to bring this up.
So, Mr. Rogers, in my mind, is the the
human equivalent of a warm cup of tea on
a rainy afternoon, right? Just kind of
soothing. And there was this moment
where he had taken some time off from
from filming his his show and then he
was about to come back and he was racked
with chatter, racked with self-doubt.
And he he journaled a little bit about
it and he's you know it's how can I
possibly live up to expectations. I've
been gone and I'll never be good enough.
And then at a particular moment in that
essay he switches. He starts using
distant selft talk essentially you've
got this the hour have come you're going
to do a great job and so forth and so on
it's in the book and it's just
remarkable because you see the entire
tenor of a conversation shift when he
goes into this distant selft talk mode
you know one of the other tools that you
talk about uh that's very effective at
helping you get a handle on the inner
critic and this negative chatter that we
have is rituals can you explain that
yeah so you Rituals in popular culture
get a bad rap because we often equate
them with certain forms of anxiety and
there are those links that that do exist
where you have people who are suffering
from anxiety conditions become really
overreiant on a ritual to a point where
it can be harmful but a ritual in the
right proportions can be quite helpful.
I often call them ancient
chatterfighting tools. So if you think
about it, are are you religious in any
way or very spiritual person? Okay. Very
spiritual person. So I'm sure that there
are certain spiritual rituals that that
you know you've been exposed to.
Grieving rituals, right? Religions
around the world have been like, well,
let's just stop for a second. Let's
pause for a second. Take the loss of
someone. This is like a real chatter
challenge for a lot of people. Like
their worldview is shattered now. How
are they going to go on without this
person that they love, that they care
about? Religions have identified, hey,
that might be a really hard time that
people are dealing with. Let's give them
a tool to manage that situation. It's a
grieving ritual. So, here's what we know
about rituals. Rituals are relatively
rigid sequences of
behaviors that you perform them the same
way each time, more or less. They don't
necessarily, it's not clear why you do
the things that comprise a ritual. Like
if you've ever watched an athlete before
a game do a ritual, they do some funky
things like, you know, pull tug on their
earlobe a few times, pick a wedgie, put
their hand through their hair. The key
is you're doing the same thing in a
sequenced order, in a rigid sequence
order. The same way, here's how this can help
help
us. Chatter is often triggered when we
don't feel like we have order and
control. Things are just not under our
control. You've written extensively
about this, right? A ritual is under
your control. You can perform that
ritual the same way each time. And when
you do, it leads to what we call, this
is a mouthful,
compensatory control. You're
compensating for the lack of control you
feel inside when your chatter is taking
over by exerting control around you.
This is also why people do this. I'm
guessing pretty common thing. I'm going
to guess you do this. Here's another.
Yeah, I feel like I'm putting you on
edge throughout our conversation. Do you
ever organize and clean when you're
experiencing chatter? Okay. So, let's
have a conversation about this because
not only did I see on page 170 tools
that involve your environment. Yeah. To
really get your negative selft talk in
control. But the first one is create
order in your environment. When we
experience chatter, we often feel as if
we're losing control. You're right. Our
thought spiral control our sp thought
spirals control us rather than the other
way around. When this happens, you can
boost your sense of control by imposing
order on your surroundings. Organizing
your environment can take many forms.
Tidying up your work or home, making a
list, arranging different objects. This
is, I think, my number one way to combat
negative selft talk. And I never knew
that's what I was doing. So that that
was true of me as well before I got into
this space. And it was this was a super
um a super aha is a technical term for
me. So growing up I've always been I
would describe myself as positively
dispositioned very happy and clean. I've
always believed in hygiene. I shower
daily sometimes twice. twice. Sometimes
if I go to the gym, you know, I like to
stay fresh, but uh not terribly
organized in the sense of putting my
things away. Probably like my wife's
biggest pet peeve are the trail of
clothing that exists from the the shower
to the closet around the room. And if
you go into my office, I assure you it
does not look like this facility that
we're taping in right now. piles of
books. That's when times are good. Okay.
Yet, going back to when I was a kid,
whenever I would experience chatter, I
would do this. I something deep inside
me would beckon myself to it was like,
you remember Field of Dreams, like build
it and they will come. And for me, it
was like, clean it. Clean it and you
will experience relief. And so, I would
like go and put things away. And I do
this, you know, like go into the
kitchen, do all the dishes, maybe even
scrub the the counter, you know, same.
And then even masochistically, and tell
me if you do this, sometimes I even go
in my kids' rooms and put their stuff
away, of course. And and like all of a
sudden things feel a little bit better. I
I
absolutely had no idea this is a
technique that we reach for when our
overwhelm and our minds get to be too
much. You're compensating for the lack
of control you feel inside by trying to
exert order and control around you. And
now that you know how this works, you
can weaponize this. Okay. Let's talk
about that because I I can see lots of
areas moments in my life like when my
husband and I were really really
struggling the kids would joke that they
would come home from school and every
other day I would have moved the
furniture around dragging it and
scraping the floor in the room where the
TV was like just like I got to change
this around. And even thinking about
packing Sunday night to come down, I
have this thing about packing. Yeah.
Where I start to feel very overwhelmed
and then I'm mad at myself that I didn't
pack before and now I'm beating myself
up relentlessly. Why? Why is this so
hard for you? Like just make a damn list
and why didn't you do this on Saturday
morning and Jesus, you meant to leave
like two hours ago and I'm like
hammering myself. And that of course
makes it impossible to leverage what
you've already taught us which is the
planning and forecasting aspect of your
selft talk because I'm so busy berating
myself. So literally I come down in the
kitchen on Sunday night. I'm 2 and 1
half hours late leaving. Yeah. I'm not
even packed yet, Ethan. And I have
clothes still spinning in the dryer
upstairs. And you know what I did? I
literally pulled out the junk drawer in
the kitchen and I started organizing.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And my husband comes
over and he puts his hand on on my
shoulder. He's like, "You don't need to
be doing this right now." And what I
wanted to do is scream around me like,
and I took a deep breath and I was like,
"Right." But what I'm realizing is that
was me trying to create order and what
felt like a tornado of negativity in my
brain. That's exactly right. Is that why
we do to-do lists, too? Like when we
It's a way of organizing. And so th
these can be useful tools for helping
people to constrain their chatter as
long as we don't become overreiant on
them. And I'm giving you that caveat
that is true by the way of all the tools
that we're talking about and that I
write about. You know what I find
interesting too about what you just
said? Tell me. The chaos doesn't bother
me when I'm happy. Yeah. Like my desk
can look like we tipped over an aisle at
Staples. Yeah. And just crap everywhere.
But if I start to feel overwhelmed or
stressed at work, I don't do work. I
clean my desk. You describe yourself so
interesting. Like you get caught up in
this kind of tizzy, so to speak,
of kind of how it feels, right? Like,
let me out. Let me give me freedom. And
and you're reflexively going to clean.
And if that's working, great. But we can
also get even more
sophisticated about beforehand thinking
about what are the two or three things
that we want to do when we find oursel
in that state and then basically ahead
of time coming up with a plan. What do
we do? So here's we whoop it up. You
whoop it up. Whoop it up. Just like like
All right, another another question
here. What what comes to mind when I say
whoop? Uh like I like isn't there that
song? There it is. You just redeemed
yourself now. Now, now we're back. We're
at like 75%. We're getting back. Yeah.
Whoop. There it is. Right. So, so um so
people have struggled endlessly. You go
from listening to a podcast, reading a
book, you learn about information and
then you know the bleep hits the fan and
the question is you don't do it. Right?
It's the New Year's resolution dilemma.
I'm going to lose the weight. I'm going
to go to the gym every day. 3 days later
you stop doing it. And so scientists
have spent a ton of time trying to
figure out why are we so bad at
following through with our intentions
and how do we make people better? And
you could boil down the decades of
research into a simple framework called
Whoop. Here's what it stands for. The W
stat step one that's your wish. So what
is your goal? So your goal might be to
calm the chatter down like reduce the
noise when you find yourself slipping
into that state. That's the goal I want
to achieve. That's the wish. That's the
wish. Okay. The first O that's the
outcome. So what's going to happen to
you if you achieve that goal? Uh I'm
going to have less stress. I am going to
cause less drama for myself and other
people. Um, I am going to feel more at
peace and more in control because all of
this negative chatter and overwhelm that
becomes very paralyzing
uh, makes me feel out of control and
incapable. So, the outcome would be very
positive. So, so great job. And the
reason we focus I love the affirmations.
Just hang around all day. Hey, I'm happy
to give them. But it's true. And the
reason why we do the the outcome next
now like you've articulated your goal.
We want to energize you like this is a
goal worth pursuing. This is worth my
time. So now you're in this energized
state for pursuing this goal. Now we get
to the second O which are the obstacles.
Okay, the personal obstacles that are
going to stand in the way of you
achieving this goal. So what what might
be an obstacle that might prevent you
from turning the the volume on your
chatter down? Um I am fluent in negative
selft talk. Okay. I am fantastic at
criticizing myself. Uh I uh can whip
myself into a human tornado
uh in a
nancond and uh it can be very effective
when I get into a tizzy because other
people try to help. Okay. that. So I
think those are all lots of obstacles.
Like just being honest about like I
don't even know if I can do it. It would
be an obstacle. Yeah. So you mean turn
the turn the volume down? Yeah. Yeah. So
you've just you've just gone through
your obstacles. So what we would then
do, we would focus on one of those
obstacles to start and we get to a P
which is our plan. Okay. But it's not
any kind of plan. It's what we call an
implementation intention. It's easier to
call it a plan. Yes. It's basically an
if then plan. So if I find
myself doomcasting and becoming you know
this savant in negative selft talk then
and you plug in what you are going to
do. You plug in the tools that you're
going to use in that situation. So if I
find myself berating myself incessantly
then I'm going to coach myself using
distant selft talk. Mel, you can handle
this. It's not that big of a deal. Go
for a walk in nature. That's another
tool in your book. Go for a walk in
nature. Jump into the mental time travel
machine. Go forward and back. We'll talk
about that in a little bit. Okay. Right.
So, let's talk about it right now. Okay.
So, go what is it? I'm not going to
remember it. Mental time travel are are
these are two of the the most useful
tools that I possess along with distant
selft talk. Super simple. We talk a lot
about the importance of being in the
moment. Grounding ourselves in our
breath. That is useful. But what we
forget when we talk about being in the
moment is number one, our minds evolved
to travel in time. And you can actually
use that to your benefit. So number one,
how am I going to feel about this issue
next week, next month, next
year? Most of our emotions follow a time
course. They get triggered and as time
goes on, they eventually subside. Most
of our emotional experiences follow that
trajectory. But when we are stuck in
chatter, we just zoom in on the
awfulness. It feels like it's never
going to end. When you jump into the
time travel machine, how am I going to
feel about this 10 years from now, 20
years from now? It highlights the fact
that what you're going through, as bad
as it is, it's not permanent. Things
will eventually get better. It gives you
hope and that turns the volume on or
chatter down. That's one thing you
That's mental time travel to the future.
I I think that could work. That's
powerful for me and then that helps me
also access the positive distance talk
that you've taught us which is if I time
travel even two week like a week from
now you've already packed and been on
the trip and now you're home like it's
not that big of a deal and then I can
start to go Mel take a deep breath
you're capable of packing you got it so
you you're blending these tools which is
off also how these things actually
operate in daily life right so we go
back to the one thing it's Not one. Now
we're doing two. And you know what else
I I want to point out because I think
it's important to keep highlighting
this. You've given us other tools of
creating a ritual and playing music and
going outside and taking a walk in that
moment, playing a song and taking a walk
would just stress me out more. Don't do
it. Right. And but but I can see how now
you're starting to build this toolkit.
That's right. where I'm not going for a
walk right now, but I can time travel to
calm myself down and then I can use
positive distance talk to say, Mel,
you can pack a bag. That's right. So,
you can customize the tools based again
on who you are and the circumstances
you're in. So, let's close the loop
though on mental time travel because we
just talked about going into the future.
You could also go into the past. Works a
little bit differently. For me, this is
my uh is ace in the hole the right term?
I think it is. I don't know. What does
it mean? It's like my secret superpower.
Oh, gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Um I think I
might have gotten wrong, but that's
okay. So, um we'll give it to you. Yeah.
Well, now you're giving me the
apherisms. This is reciprocal. It goes
very well. Um, so, um, so I the story I
open up my my second book with, shift,
is a story of my grandmother in World
War II surviving the the Nazis basically
slaughtering our whole
family. My grandmother's my ace in the
hole. When things feel so big and and
just kind of how am I possibly going to
get through this? I jump into the mental
time travel machine. I go back to 1940,
whatever. I spent just a little bit of
time with my grandmother in my mind. And
what that does for me is it it it zooms
me out. It makes it super clear to me
that what I'm going through as as
difficult as it is, it pales in
comparison to what she went through and
survived. And I think we all have those
personal experiences or experiences in
our family or in our culture that you
can anchor on to put what we're going
through in perspective. Is there a
something you would add to that though?
Because if you're a world class
self-critic and ber Yeah. I could see
that strategy being something that only
becomes more evidence where you go and
you're such a piece of crap that you're
sitting here working yourself up about
this thing. How you know what I'm
saying? Like you actually should. So,
how do you take that to give yourself
perspective but then keep yourself
lifted in your capacity to coach
yourself through? You want to keep the
spotlight on the challenge that they
endured compared to what you're dealing
with right now. Right. And really use it
as a source of motivation as as Exactly.
not to not to you don't want to slip
back into the well, you know, anything
sets you off. That would defeat the
purpose of that exercise. And if you
find that doing that leads you into that
territory, don't use that tool. Use a
different one. That's great. And that's
that's that's a really important
takehome for these tools. Different
tools work for different people in
different situations. How important of a
role does environment play in selft talk
being positive or negative? Yeah, it can
it can play a big role um in a few
different ways. So um so we already
talked about your local environment, how
the way you structure your environment,
how organized it is can affect what's
happening between your ears. Um, there's
also ways of of of putting things in
your environment to trigger positive
experiences like um pictures of loved
ones, which you know sounds so so silly
on the one hand, but we did this
research years ago where we had people
um think about really painful experiences
experiences
and we had them then look at a picture
of a loved one or a picture of someone
else's loved one to see what are the
implications of looking at your what we
call attachment figure, someone you're
really connected to. And what we found
is that looking at that person that you
care about,
this activates a sense that there are
people in this world that support you,
which sped up how quickly people
recovered from from a distressing
experience. So after that research, I
like went on a shopping spree for f um
picture frames and like my my off all of
my offices have pictures of of my family
and friends all around it for that
reason. Yeah. I think that that you know
if you think about walking through an
office often times that's the thing that
te tethers you through the day. Yeah. Is
the reminder of what's meaningful in
your life especially when you're having
a stressful day. Exactly. Sort of like
the way that you time traveled backwards
to your grandmother. helps helps put
things in perspective. Correct. So,
that's that's one thing you can do. Um,
green space exposure. Uh, I was a little
um hesitant to really buy into this when
I first started uh researching this
space. I come from uh a place we we
talked about before Brooklyn, New York.
I I like to remind people that one of
the most famous books to come out of
this burrow or about this burrow was
titled a tree grows in Brooklyn,
singular, right? So, like there's not a
lot of um there was not a lot of green
space growing up and uh I'm a city
guy. I find green space exposure to be
um quite profound in terms of how it
impacts my emotional life. And there's
been a lot of research on this and what
happens is when you're stuck in
chatter, it consumes your attention.
It's the only thing you can think about.
So true. When you go for a walk in a in
a safe natural setting, what happens is
your attention is is captured by your
surroundings, but in a very gentle way.
The sights, the sounds, the smells, like
your attention just drifts on them. And
what that does is it gives you this
opportunity to rest and restore over the
course of that walk. So, you finish it,
you're feeling more rejuvenated, and you actually have more attentional capacity
actually have more attentional capacity to work through your problems. So that's
to work through your problems. So that's one way that your environment in
one way that your environment in particular green space exposure can help
particular green space exposure can help you. You know I just had an experience
you. You know I just had an experience where last week I you know got some very
where last week I you know got some very very difficult news and so I had a
very difficult news and so I had a horrible night's sleep could not fall
horrible night's sleep could not fall asleep. Woke up it was like 5:15 in the
asleep. Woke up it was like 5:15 in the morning which is ungodly early for me.
morning which is ungodly early for me. And it was pitch dark outside. My
And it was pitch dark outside. My husband Chris was gone and I laid there
husband Chris was gone and I laid there and I could just feel the negative what
and I could just feel the negative what if this and where you're just kind of
if this and where you're just kind of trying to problem solve through
trying to problem solve through something that's scaring you to death in
something that's scaring you to death in your life or your work or whatever. And
your life or your work or whatever. And I thought I need to get the hell out of
I thought I need to get the hell out of this bed. So, I got up. I got the dogs
this bed. So, I got up. I got the dogs outside and then I thought I should go
outside and then I thought I should go for a walk even though the moon is still
for a walk even though the moon is still out and it is pitch dark because my mind
out and it is pitch dark because my mind is a horrendous place right now and the
is a horrendous place right now and the last thing I want to do is look at
last thing I want to do is look at social media or try to solve it that
social media or try to solve it that way. So, or log on to email. And so, I
way. So, or log on to email. And so, I put on my coat and I still have my
put on my coat and I still have my pajamas on and I started walking down
pajamas on and I started walking down the driveway. And as I was walking in
the driveway. And as I was walking in the pitch dark and I'm seeing the moon
the pitch dark and I'm seeing the moon start to lower and I started thinking to
start to lower and I started thinking to myself sort of like you thought about
myself sort of like you thought about your grandmother about the fact that in
your grandmother about the fact that in the scale of humanity and the fact that
the scale of humanity and the fact that I am but a speck on this planet h
I am but a speck on this planet h hurtling through space the crap that's
hurtling through space the crap that's keeping me up at like I'm sorry again
keeping me up at like I'm sorry again still negative shaming myself if if you
still negative shaming myself if if you take notice but as I rounded the corner
take notice but as I rounded the corner and the the moon is set it probably took
and the the moon is set it probably took about 15 to 15 minutes of walking, but
about 15 to 15 minutes of walking, but there was an owl. It was
there was an owl. It was like, and I'm like,
like, and I'm like, "Oh, that the owl doesn't care." And as
"Oh, that the owl doesn't care." And as I kept walking and my senses were
I kept walking and my senses were activated, it pulled me into the
activated, it pulled me into the experience of the walking and then the
experience of the walking and then the sun started to come up and slowly but
sun started to come up and slowly but surely I noticed that the beatdown was
surely I noticed that the beatdown was gone. Yeah. Why does that work? Yeah.
gone. Yeah. Why does that work? Yeah. Because I think we've all experienced
Because I think we've all experienced feeling better and clearing our mind.
feeling better and clearing our mind. Yeah. When we either take a walk or if
Yeah. When we either take a walk or if it's available to you, you can get
it's available to you, you can get outside in green space. Yeah. So, a
outside in green space. Yeah. So, a couple things I want to point out. So,
couple things I want to point out. So, number one, you said 13 minutes. You
number one, you said 13 minutes. You said it took about 13 minutes. And the
said it took about 13 minutes. And the way I interpreted you saying that I was
way I interpreted you saying that I was like, it took a while. Mhm. But if you
like, it took a while. Mhm. But if you think 13 minutes is a while, how much
think 13 minutes is a while, how much time have you spent in that negative
time have you spent in that negative selft talk? 56 years. 56 years. I think
selft talk? 56 years. 56 years. I think 13 minutes is pretty damn good. Like 13
13 minutes is pretty damn good. Like 13 minutes is probably quicker than the
minutes is probably quicker than the amount of time it takes for Tylenol to
amount of time it takes for Tylenol to have its effect when you got a bad
have its effect when you got a bad headache, right? Like that is pretty
headache, right? Like that is pretty magical. So we talked a little bit about
magical. So we talked a little bit about how nature can help us restore. That's
how nature can help us restore. That's one way it can help us. Another thing
one way it can help us. Another thing that it does is it gives us the
that it does is it gives us the opportunity to experience the emotion of
opportunity to experience the emotion of awe, which is an emotion we experience
awe, which is an emotion we experience when we're in the presence of something
when we're in the presence of something vast and indescribable, something that
vast and indescribable, something that just feels bigger than ourselves. And
just feels bigger than ourselves. And nature is replete with those awe
nature is replete with those awe triggers like the moon. It's so
triggers like the moon. It's so beautiful and these, you know, you're in
beautiful and these, you know, you're in you're in southern Vermont. I've been up
you're in southern Vermont. I've been up there at times. It's it's gorgeous up
there at times. It's it's gorgeous up there. Mhm. When we experience this
there. Mhm. When we experience this emotion of awe, what it does, it leads
emotion of awe, what it does, it leads to what we call a shrinking of the self.
to what we call a shrinking of the self. You feel smaller when you're
You feel smaller when you're contemplating something vast and
contemplating something vast and indescribable. Here you are, Mel. You're
indescribable. Here you are, Mel. You're worried about this thing. I'm sure it's
worried about this thing. I'm sure it's a legit. It feels doesn't only feel
a legit. It feels doesn't only feel legitimate. I'm sure it feels
legitimate. I'm sure it feels existential in the moment that you're
existential in the moment that you're having it. Like, it's over. I'm over.
having it. Like, it's over. I'm over. The world is over. Right? Like, yeah,
The world is over. Right? Like, yeah, we've all been there. We know what it's
we've all been there. We know what it's like. Well, when you're in nature and
like. Well, when you're in nature and you have this opportunity to experience
you have this opportunity to experience awe, it just it makes you and your
awe, it just it makes you and your concerns feel a whole lot smaller when
concerns feel a whole lot smaller when you're contemplating the
you're contemplating the vastness of maybe like the site you're
vastness of maybe like the site you're in. I mean, you're probably walking
in. I mean, you're probably walking somewhere, trees are alive for hundreds
somewhere, trees are alive for hundreds of years, right? Like that makes what
of years, right? Like that makes what you're dealing with just feel a little
you're dealing with just feel a little bit more insignificant. And when we
bit more insignificant. And when we shrink ourselves in that way, our
shrink ourselves in that way, our problems shrink too. So um so I will
problems shrink too. So um so I will often weaponize this by going for walks
often weaponize this by going for walks in the local arboritum when I'm really
in the local arboritum when I'm really struggling with something and it
struggling with something and it inevitably helps. It's like what am I'm
inevitably helps. It's like what am I'm worried about this like when there are
worried about this like when there are so many more things happening in the
so many more things happening in the universe like come on let's get back
universe like come on let's get back into gear. Yeah. And more importantly, I
into gear. Yeah. And more importantly, I think it helps you access the other
think it helps you access the other tools. Because you know, the thing is is
tools. Because you know, the thing is is that the walk didn't disappear, the
that the walk didn't disappear, the problem. It actually lowered the
problem. It actually lowered the chatter. And so when I got back and into
chatter. And so when I got back and into my workday, and inevitably other things
my workday, and inevitably other things happened that then bring it back up,
happened that then bring it back up, whether I started organizing my desk or
whether I started organizing my desk or I'm using the other tools, I can see
I'm using the other tools, I can see what you're teaching us, which is you
what you're teaching us, which is you have the ability to catch it. That's
have the ability to catch it. That's right. When it's taking you down. That's
right. When it's taking you down. That's right. and then use these tools to
right. and then use these tools to create distance from it. So, there are
create distance from it. So, there are so many tools in the book and we've
so many tools in the book and we've covered a bunch of them so far, but what
covered a bunch of them so far, but what are some other quick and simple tactics
are some other quick and simple tactics and tools that the person listening can
and tools that the person listening can use to make their inner voice more
use to make their inner voice more positive? Okay, so let's enter into the
positive? Okay, so let's enter into the rapid fire part of the conversation. Uh,
rapid fire part of the conversation. Uh, sensory experiences tremendously
sensory experiences tremendously underutilized tool. I was blind to this
underutilized tool. I was blind to this up until relatively recently in my life
up until relatively recently in my life when my daughter was in a um a terrible
when my daughter was in a um a terrible mood was buming me out and um one of the
mood was buming me out and um one of the great songs of all time came on the
great songs of all time came on the radio in the car or iPad whatever you
radio in the car or iPad whatever you call it nowadays journeys don't stop
call it nowadays journeys don't stop believing and everyone got excited and
believing and everyone got excited and happy in the car music effortlessly
happy in the car music effortlessly shifts our emotions you can use this
shifts our emotions you can use this yourself you can use it to shift other
yourself you can use it to shift other people's emotions all of the senses
people's emotions all of the senses are useful tools to shift our emotions.
are useful tools to shift our emotions. Sense I'm staying at a hotel not far
Sense I'm staying at a hotel not far from here. The moment I walked into the
from here. The moment I walked into the hotel, I was I was a wash with this
hotel, I was I was a wash with this pleasant scent that the hotel has been
pleasant scent that the hotel has been piping through the ventilation system to
piping through the ventilation system to make the patrons feel comfortable. We
make the patrons feel comfortable. We spritz ourselves with chemicals to make
spritz ourselves with chemicals to make ourselves feel good and make other
ourselves feel good and make other people feel good. Our senses are
people feel good. Our senses are powerful tools. Um, let's talk about
powerful tools. Um, let's talk about other people though because other people
other people though because other people I think are really important and it
I think are really important and it touches back to this this problem where
touches back to this this problem where sometimes you go to other people and we
sometimes you go to other people and we push them away. So, how do
push them away. So, how do you how do you find other people in your
you how do you find other people in your life to actually help you when it comes
life to actually help you when it comes to your chatter or your the big emotions
to your chatter or your the big emotions you're experiencing? I call these our
you're experiencing? I call these our chatter advisors. Okay. Okay, how do you
chatter advisors. Okay. Okay, how do you find your chatter
find your chatter advisors? You want to look for people
advisors? You want to look for people who do two things. There are two key
who do two things. There are two key steps to providing good chatter support.
steps to providing good chatter support. Step one, you want to listen,
Step one, you want to listen, empathize, validate, connect with the
empathize, validate, connect with the person, right? Lots of big terms there,
person, right? Lots of big terms there, but what I mean is like you want to be
but what I mean is like you want to be there emotionally for that person. I
there emotionally for that person. I want to learn about what you're going
want to learn about what you're going through. Like I really would like to
through. Like I really would like to know what set you off at 5:00 a.m. the
know what set you off at 5:00 a.m. the other day. Tell me about it. Terrible.
other day. Tell me about it. Terrible. like I've been there too. Genuinely
like I've been there too. Genuinely connecting. What that does is it it it
connecting. What that does is it it it it helps satisfy the person who's
it helps satisfy the person who's suffering these needs they have to feel
suffering these needs they have to feel connected. Once I do that, then I want
connected. Once I do that, then I want to shift into this kind of advice or
to shift into this kind of advice or cognitive mode. So, all right, now we're
cognitive mode. So, all right, now we're connected. You can rely on me, but the
connected. You can rely on me, but the problem's still there. Let's try to
problem's still there. Let's try to let's try to look at it. And as someone
let's try to look at it. And as someone who is not going through the problem
who is not going through the problem myself, I'm in a great position to help
myself, I'm in a great position to help put it in perspective for you. Y those
put it in perspective for you. Y those are the two steps to providing good
are the two steps to providing good chatter support. And you would be amazed
chatter support. And you would be amazed at how frequently people who are
at how frequently people who are exceptionally well-intentioned don't
exceptionally well-intentioned don't follow those two steps. There are two
follow those two steps. There are two ways it breaks down. Number one, some
ways it breaks down. Number one, some people think that their job is just give
people think that their job is just give you a sounding board to let it out. just
you a sounding board to let it out. just keep going, right? There's value in that
keep going, right? There's value in that in in connecting and learning, but if
in in connecting and learning, but if that's all we do in a conversation, it
that's all we do in a conversation, it can lead to what we call co-rumination.
can lead to what we call co-rumination. Now, we're just kind of bathing
Now, we're just kind of bathing ourselves in the in the problem
ourselves in the in the problem together. And as a function, we often
together. And as a function, we often leave the conversation feeling
leave the conversation feeling connected, but the problem's still
connected, but the problem's still there. That doesn't work. The other
there. That doesn't work. The other thing that doesn't work, you come to me
thing that doesn't work, you come to me with a problem and within 5 seconds,
with a problem and within 5 seconds, Mel, this is simple. You know, like I
Mel, this is simple. You know, like I wrote a paper on this. Here's what you
wrote a paper on this. Here's what you need to do. Just do ABCD. You'll be
need to do. Just do ABCD. You'll be fine. Call me in the morning. We call
fine. Call me in the morning. We call those people jerks, right? Or Mel
those people jerks, right? Or Mel Robbins. I doubt I doubt that. And so,
Robbins. I doubt I doubt that. And so, so you really want to follow both of
so you really want to follow both of those steps in that order. Listen and
those steps in that order. Listen and then advise. There's an art to doing
then advise. There's an art to doing that. Well, so I'll use my wife here as
that. Well, so I'll use my wife here as an example. Is she going to kill you?
an example. Is she going to kill you? She might kill me, but it's okay. We
She might kill me, but it's okay. We love each other. Um, so if my wife came
love each other. Um, so if my wife came to me with with a problem that she was
to me with with a problem that she was um experiencing some chatter about, I
um experiencing some chatter about, I would immediately start listening,
would immediately start listening, empathizing, connecting. And when I
empathizing, connecting. And when I sensed that she had gotten it out and I
sensed that she had gotten it out and I really understood the
really understood the problem, I would ask her for permission.
problem, I would ask her for permission. I'd be like, "Hey, I I I totally get it.
I'd be like, "Hey, I I I totally get it. I have a I have a thought. You wanna Do
I have a I have a thought. You wanna Do you want to keep going or can I share it
you want to keep going or can I share it with you? Sometimes the way that she'll
with you? Sometimes the way that she'll answer that question is no, I'm not
answer that question is no, I'm not done. Just let me keep going. And then I
done. Just let me keep going. And then I let her keep going and then I come back
let her keep going and then I come back to it. Okay. At other moments it'll be
to it. Okay. At other moments it'll be yes, please. What do you think? Let's,
yes, please. What do you think? Let's, you know, help me. And so what I love
you know, help me. And so what I love about this framework that I essentially
about this framework that I essentially just described that we just talked about
just described that we just talked about is it gives me guideposts for how to
is it gives me guideposts for how to steer this conversation. When someone
steer this conversation. When someone comes to me, whether so my wife, my
comes to me, whether so my wife, my friend, my students, whoever, there are
friend, my students, whoever, there are these two steps that I follow in the in
these two steps that I follow in the in in the same sequence each time. Step one
in the same sequence each time. Step one is I'm there to empathize and connect,
is I'm there to empathize and connect, listen and learn.
listen and learn. Step two, now I'm going to try to help
Step two, now I'm going to try to help work with the person to broaden their
work with the person to broaden their perspective. So this has happened to you
perspective. So this has happened to you before. How'd you deal with it last
before. How'd you deal with it last time? Or you know, something like this
time? Or you know, something like this happened to me and here's what I did.
happened to me and here's what I did. Simple ways for broadening perspective.
Simple ways for broadening perspective. Like couple of questions like that you
Like couple of questions like that you ask. It often helps the person find the
ask. It often helps the person find the answer. I will often ask people to do a
answer. I will often ask people to do a a chatter advisor audit. So I'll have
a chatter advisor audit. So I'll have people like divide their world into
people like divide their world into personal and professional and then I ask
personal and professional and then I ask them to list who all the names of the
them to list who all the names of the people they go to to talk about the
people they go to to talk about the chatter when it
chatter when it erupts. Then I'll explain to them how
erupts. Then I'll explain to them how this art of chatter advising that we've
this art of chatter advising that we've just gone over that the key to being a
just gone over that the key to being a good adviser is to empathize, listen,
good adviser is to empathize, listen, and then shift into that advising. And
and then shift into that advising. And I'll have them circle the names of the
I'll have them circle the names of the people on their list who do both of
people on their list who do both of those things. And I haven't cross out
those things. And I haven't cross out the names of the people who who don't.
the names of the people who who don't. The people whose names you circle,
The people whose names you circle, that's your advisory board. And it's not
that's your advisory board. And it's not always the people that you're closest
always the people that you're closest to. Often times it's actually not. It's
to. Often times it's actually not. It's not. And that's okay. You know, there
not. And that's okay. You know, there are people who I love, who I'm super
are people who I love, who I'm super close to. I don't talk to them about my
close to. I don't talk to them about my chatter. It doesn't help me. It actually
chatter. It doesn't help me. It actually pushes me in the wrong direction. Um,
pushes me in the wrong direction. Um, but my board is an amazing asset that I
but my board is an amazing asset that I possess and I lean on it frequently to
possess and I lean on it frequently to deal with my chatter. Uh Ethan, what
deal with my chatter. Uh Ethan, what does a person do if they're, you know,
does a person do if they're, you know, listening to you and they've got someone
listening to you and they've got someone in their life who's really struggling
in their life who's really struggling because of the way they talk to
because of the way they talk to themselves? I mean, just down on
themselves? I mean, just down on themselves, down emotionally. What is
themselves, down emotionally. What is the best thing that you can do to help
the best thing that you can do to help somebody that you care about when you
somebody that you care about when you see them really beaten down?
see them really beaten down? So, I like to divide the way of helping
So, I like to divide the way of helping others into into buckets. One thing you
others into into buckets. One thing you can do if they come to you for help as
can do if they come to you for help as often happens to us, people want to talk
often happens to us, people want to talk to us, people want our support, then you
to us, people want our support, then you um you follow that that guide that we
um you follow that that guide that we just talked about. You listen and learn
just talked about. You listen and learn and then you advise. And part of the
and then you advise. And part of the advice is giving them the tools. Like
advice is giving them the tools. Like the way we help others is is teaching
the way we help others is is teaching others about these tools. I do this to
others about these tools. I do this to my kids all the time, right? Like I'm
my kids all the time, right? Like I'm constantly complaining that we're born
constantly complaining that we're born into the world with the the ability to
into the world with the the ability to experience chatter and big emotions.
experience chatter and big emotions. We're not born into the world with the
We're not born into the world with the users's guide that teaches us these
users's guide that teaches us these tools. So if my kids come to me, I
tools. So if my kids come to me, I listen, right? And then I offer them
listen, right? And then I offer them tools. But then there's another
tools. But then there's another situation where you see people you care
situation where you see people you care about, your colleagues, your loved ones,
about, your colleagues, your loved ones, and they don't ask you for help. And
and they don't ask you for help. And then the question is, well, what do you
then the question is, well, what do you do? Do you let them just figure it out
do? Do you let them just figure it out on their own, suffer in silence? Do you
on their own, suffer in silence? Do you volunteer the support without them
volunteer the support without them asking? There's been research on this
asking? There's been research on this and and it's tricky. The research shows
and and it's tricky. The research shows that if you volunteer the support
that if you volunteer the support without the person asking, it has the
without the person asking, it has the potential to blow up in your face. As a
potential to blow up in your face. As a parent, I'm sure you've experienced this
parent, I'm sure you've experienced this as I know I have. So sometimes if I've
as I know I have. So sometimes if I've seen my kids, I know they're struggling
seen my kids, I know they're struggling with something. this is something I can
with something. this is something I can help them with and I volunteer the
help them with and I volunteer the advice. You know, it's basically a mild
advice. You know, it's basically a mild version of how they respond. When you
version of how they respond. When you offer support and it's not asked for,
offer support and it's not asked for, what that does is it communicates to the
what that does is it communicates to the person that they're not capable of
person that they're not capable of handling their own
handling their own circumstances. And that can elicit
circumstances. And that can elicit defensiveness. So, here's the really
defensiveness. So, here's the really cool thing. We have learned how you can
cool thing. We have learned how you can still help people when they don't ask
still help people when they don't ask for help. And what it involves doing is
for help. And what it involves doing is providing support invisibly. Okay. Is
providing support invisibly. Okay. Is this another one of these secret
this another one of these secret weapons? This is a secret weapon that
weapons? This is a secret weapon that everyone that you are listen if you're
everyone that you are listen if you're listening, you now have a secret weapon.
listening, you now have a secret weapon. Lay it on us, Ethan. How do we do
Lay it on us, Ethan. How do we do invisible support? Invisible support is
invisible support? Invisible support is providing people with support but
providing people with support but without shining a spotlight on the fact
without shining a spotlight on the fact that you're doing You kind of asked me
that you're doing You kind of asked me about this earlier when you asked me
about this earlier when you asked me about how do you tactfully help another
about how do you tactfully help another person when they're struggling. This is
person when they're struggling. This is how you do it. Okay. And there are many
how you do it. Okay. And there are many forms this can take. I'll give you a
forms this can take. I'll give you a couple of examples. Let's say someone on
couple of examples. Let's say someone on my team or or you know my lab is is uh
my team or or you know my lab is is uh working under a really tense deadline
working under a really tense deadline and I I they don't have time to take
and I I they don't have time to take care of themselves and do simple things.
care of themselves and do simple things. I I can just order in food for them. If
I I can just order in food for them. If my wife is struggling with like lots of
my wife is struggling with like lots of stress at work, lots of chatter, it's
stress at work, lots of chatter, it's her turn to get the groceries. Like, I
her turn to get the groceries. Like, I just do the groceries, pick up the dry
just do the groceries, pick up the dry cleaning, I don't do it, come home and
cleaning, I don't do it, come home and ask for a pat on my back. I just do
ask for a pat on my back. I just do things to make the other person's life
things to make the other person's life just a little bit easier, a little bit
just a little bit easier, a little bit more manageable. That's one way of
more manageable. That's one way of supporting someone invisibly. Let's say
supporting someone invisibly. Let's say someone else is struggling with a skill.
someone else is struggling with a skill. Um, let's say it's public speaking. So,
Um, let's say it's public speaking. So, someone on my team is struggling with
someone on my team is struggling with communicating their science in a way
communicating their science in a way that people can understand with impact.
that people can understand with impact. Before I take them aside and say, "Hey,
Before I take them aside and say, "Hey, I've noticed that you could do a little
I've noticed that you could do a little bit better here. Here are three things I
bit better here. Here are three things I I want you to try." I'll first have a
I want you to try." I'll first have a team meeting and we'll all share out
team meeting and we'll all share out best practice. What are the two or three
best practice. What are the two or three things that we've all benefited from for
things that we've all benefited from for speaking more effectively? What I'm
speaking more effectively? What I'm doing there is I am getting the person
doing there is I am getting the person information they can benefit from, but
information they can benefit from, but I'm not shining a spotlight on the fact
I'm not shining a spotlight on the fact that I'm targeting it to them. So even
that I'm targeting it to them. So even sharing sources that you've benefited
sharing sources that you've benefited from, podcast episodes, books, share
from, podcast episodes, books, share that with someone else. You don't have
that with someone else. You don't have to target it to them and say, "Hey, this
to target it to them and say, "Hey, this is going to help you." But if you've
is going to help you." But if you've found the material meaningful, just
found the material meaningful, just share it in that context. And what it
share it in that context. And what it does is it it gives them the opportunity
does is it it gives them the opportunity to benefit as well, but without you
to benefit as well, but without you think without them thinking this was
think without them thinking this was specifically targeted to them. Oh, you
specifically targeted to them. Oh, you could always do it in a group chat.
could always do it in a group chat. That's my favorite thing to do is just
That's my favorite thing to do is just hit the family group chat. Hit the
hit the family group chat. Hit the friend chat. Hey everybody, great
friend chat. Hey everybody, great episode. Great. This episode was
episode. Great. This episode was awesome. I learned so much. Or this book
awesome. I learned so much. Or this book was great. Yeah, those are simple things
was great. Yeah, those are simple things you can do. And I do that all the time.
you can do. And I do that all the time. Let me close the loop on invisible
Let me close the loop on invisible support because I told you about two
support because I told you about two ways you can do it. There's a third and
ways you can do it. There's a third and it's my favorite. What is that? It's
it's my favorite. What is that? It's affectionate but not creepy touch. Are
affectionate but not creepy touch. Are you familiar with this one? Yeah. That's
you familiar with this one? Yeah. That's what ants do, not uncles. Well,
what ants do, not uncles. Well, definitely not uncles. But it's what
definitely not uncles. But it's what moms and dads do. That's true.
moms and dads do. That's true. Affectionate but not creepy. Yeah. Like
Affectionate but not creepy. Yeah. Like what do you do with your kids when
what do you do with your kids when they're born into this world? First
they're born into this world? First thing we do. Oh, I just pulled them
thing we do. Oh, I just pulled them against you. You hug them. That's right.
against you. You hug them. That's right. And and we have receptors on our skin
And and we have receptors on our skin that encode for an affectionate embrace.
that encode for an affectionate embrace. And when it's registered, there's this
And when it's registered, there's this automatic release of of stress fighting
automatic release of of stress fighting chemicals that flood our system. And so,
chemicals that flood our system. And so, you know, if if my daughters are
you know, if if my daughters are experiencing something challenging or my
experiencing something challenging or my my wife, I'll, you know, just kind
my wife, I'll, you know, just kind of give them a hug, caress their back.
of give them a hug, caress their back. Again, not creepy. Um, but even at work,
Again, not creepy. Um, but even at work, you know, like a fist bump, right?
you know, like a fist bump, right? Right. Is a simple way. We are a social
Right. Is a simple way. We are a social pat on the back. Pat on the back, right?
pat on the back. Pat on the back, right? t tactile species. That's a way of
t tactile species. That's a way of supporting someone invisibly as well. I
supporting someone invisibly as well. I totally get it. Yeah. You do want to
totally get it. Yeah. You do want to make sure to convey the not creepy part
make sure to convey the not creepy part of it though. For sure. Yeah. Um I would
of it though. For sure. Yeah. Um I would love to have you speak directly to the
love to have you speak directly to the person listening because you have shared
person listening because you have shared so much with us about your research and
so much with us about your research and ways that we can flip that negative
ways that we can flip that negative chatter into a positive coach. Um and
chatter into a positive coach. Um and all just so many tools. to reach for
all just so many tools. to reach for that will help you do that. If the
that will help you do that. If the person takes just one action based on
person takes just one action based on everything that you've poured into us
everything that you've poured into us from your two books, Chatter and
from your two books, Chatter and Shift, what is the most important thing
Shift, what is the most important thing to do? The most important thing to do is
to do? The most important thing to do is learn about the
learn about the tools. Just familiarize yourself with
tools. Just familiarize yourself with them. What I love about these tools is
them. What I love about these tools is decades of of research have gone into
decades of of research have gone into their identification. Complex,
their identification. Complex, backbreaking effort, but the take-homes
backbreaking effort, but the take-homes are super simple. Mental time travel.
are super simple. Mental time travel. How am I going to feel about this next
How am I going to feel about this next year into the past? You know, how does
year into the past? You know, how does this compare with what Bubby went
this compare with what Bubby went through? My grandmother Ethan, you've
through? My grandmother Ethan, you've got this. I mean these are simple things
got this. I mean these are simple things that don't take a whole lot of time and
that don't take a whole lot of time and energy to practice. Just familiarize
energy to practice. Just familiarize yourself with them and then start
yourself with them and then start self-experimenting. That is the that is
self-experimenting. That is the that is the the launch pad for gaining control
the the launch pad for gaining control of your chatter. And so um so my
of your chatter. And so um so my invitation to you is to familiarize
invitation to you is to familiarize yourself with the tools that are out
yourself with the tools that are out there. Start self-experimenting. Find
there. Start self-experimenting. Find the tools that work best for you and
the tools that work best for you and share them with other people. That is
share them with other people. That is the way I think we help really combat
the way I think we help really combat this this universal affliction. Ethan,
this this universal affliction. Ethan, you are so awesome. Now you're giving me
you are so awesome. Now you're giving me all the the No, I actually mean it. Like
all the the No, I actually mean it. Like I'm stunned because this topic can be so
I'm stunned because this topic can be so heady and you made it so accessible and
heady and you made it so accessible and tactical just like you said that you
tactical just like you said that you would. Congratulations on the
would. Congratulations on the bestselling book, The Manual, that now
bestselling book, The Manual, that now exists for all of us to turn our inner
exists for all of us to turn our inner critic into positive coaching chatter.
critic into positive coaching chatter. Congratulations on your mega bestseller,
Congratulations on your mega bestseller, Shift. I am so happy you came. Thank
Shift. I am so happy you came. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, the
you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, the feeling is totally totally totally
feeling is totally totally totally mutual. And I also want to thank you.
mutual. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for choosing to spend time
Thank you for choosing to spend time listening to something that can help you
listening to something that can help you create a better life. And there's no
create a better life. And there's no doubt in my mind that everything that
doubt in my mind that everything that Ethan taught us today is going to help
Ethan taught us today is going to help you change your selft talk from
you change your selft talk from something that is beating you down to
something that is beating you down to something that's lifting you up. and
something that's lifting you up. and that will change your life and the life
that will change your life and the life of people that you care about. Thank you
of people that you care about. Thank you for sharing this with people that you
for sharing this with people that you care about. And in case no one else
care about. And in case no one else tells you, I want to tell you in the
tells you, I want to tell you in the words of Ethan, you got this. You can do
words of Ethan, you got this. You can do this. And I also want to tell you, in
this. And I also want to tell you, in case no one else does, I love you. I
case no one else does, I love you. I admire the fact that you're taking time
admire the fact that you're taking time to listen to something like this. And I
to listen to something like this. And I know it was worth your time. And I also
know it was worth your time. And I also know it's going to help you create a
know it's going to help you create a better life. All righty. I'll talk to
better life. All righty. I'll talk to you in a few days. And I will be waiting
you in a few days. And I will be waiting to welcome you in to the very next
to welcome you in to the very next episode the moment you hit play. I'll
episode the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. You're definitely going
see you there. You're definitely going to love this one and I'm going to be
to love this one and I'm going to be waiting to welcome you into it the
waiting to welcome you into it the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.
Click on any text or timestamp to jump to that moment in the video
Share:
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
One-Click Copy125+ LanguagesSearch ContentJump to Timestamps
Paste YouTube URL
Enter any YouTube video link to get the full transcript
Transcript Extraction Form
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
Get Our Chrome Extension
Get transcripts instantly without leaving YouTube. Install our Chrome extension for one-click access to any video's transcript directly on the watch page.
