This content is an interview with Dr. Art Deius, a pioneer of the semiconductor industry and founder of Synopsys, exploring his leadership philosophy, personal values, and life lessons, emphasizing a "yes, if" mindset, the importance of heart and courage in leadership, and the continuous pursuit of learning and impact.
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Hi, today we're going to get a bit
personal with Dr. Art Deius, one of the
storied pioneers of the semiconductor
industry, having founded Synopsis in
1986 and leading it for nearly 38 years.
He's also known as the father of EDA.
EDA is electronic design automation and
is one of the most critical supply chain
partners in the semiconductor ecosystem.
For those of you not in the industry who
may not know Art, you're going to love
this episode because it's going to break
all stereotypes about who the leaders
are that matter in Silicon Valley. In
some ways, he is the soul and conscience
of the semiconductor industry. He's one
of those individuals who leads and lives
by a set of deeply held values. Please
join me in welcoming a soulful blues
musician, a deepinking philosopher, and
Welcome to a bit personal art. Thank you
for being here.
>> Hey, thank you for being here.
>> Thank you for inviting me into your
recording studio. This is so cool.
>> I hope it works for you. And there's
music behind us. So, okay, here we go. >> Perfect.
>> Perfect.
>> So, tell me a little bit about how often
do you do you come in here? Well, I try
whenever I'm home to at least play 15
minutes or so. You know, if you come
super uh charged from work, nothing
better than being able to crank a guitar
up a bit and uh uh and the stress comes
down, but I wish I could play way more.
>> And you also perform. So, tell me about
your band.
>> Yeah, we have a band, Legally Blue, and
we do about a dozen gigs per year or so.
Uh but the gigs are like two and a half
hours, two times an hour, 15 minutes,
which is a lot of material to actually
get on top of. So, where do you play?
>> Oh, a lot of uh things are outdoors. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And you know, some of our favorites are,
for example, in Sunnyvale closes uh Main
Street and then they put uh table so
people can eat there and a stage and
then we play the evening. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, it is
really cool.
>> So fun.
>> So, you and I have had the opportunity
to know each other for roughly 20 years.
>> That long? Really? Okay.
>> Which means we both started as teenagers.
teenagers.
>> Yeah. I was thinking kindergarten, but
Okay. Yeah, that's fine.
>> Teenage prodigy.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> So, anyway, so during that time, I've
learned a lot of lessons from you, and
some of them have been things that I've
observed, but some of them have been
point blank lessons that you've taught
me, things that you've told me.
>> Well, some of that material has come
back to me, so it's cool.
>> That's nice. So, you have to tell me
about that some. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> So, I want to start there with with sort
of your um your philosophical leanings.
Okay. So, you're you're a pretty deep
thinker. So yes, you are the father of
EDA and everybody knows you're a super
smart guy, but it goes deeper than that.
I mean, you're really quite a deep
thinker on both business side as well, I
think, as the the personal side. So, one
of the things that you championed at
Synopsis was this mind frame of yes if
rather than no butt.
>> No, because no because Okay. No. All right.
right.
>> No, but works pretty well, too,
actually. Okay. All right. So that's my
new saying. Anyway, so tell me a little
bit about why you adopted that and what
does it really mean and how did you see
sort of a transformation within synopsis
just because of a different mindset.
>> Yeah, you know actually it started I
think 2017 18 I had noticed that uh the
company had become more stodgy and maybe
the reality is I had become more stodgy.
Uh and oh yes yeah no no no it's very
easy to become more more u no no change oriented
oriented
>> and and essentially we were doing fine
but yeah our profitability had not
really grown and so somehow it occurred
to me that there were so many reason
that we couldn't do this no because
because because and so on and suddenly
one day I realized hey we have an enemy
it's no because and what's our friend
yes if and you know the ifs and the
causes are actually sort of the same
>> but the mindset change to go to a yes if
from a no because is actually extremely
fundamental because it opens doors
whereas every no because essentially
closes them and so uh I sort of
announced to the company that I'm going
to try to do this change sounded a
little bit esoteric maybe but then for
the entire 2019 I did tours and uh
roundts with small groups of employees
in front of let's say 100 or 200 other
employees and I would pick people that
were sort of lower middle management but
that had a little you know little spark >> okay
>> okay
>> and essentially asked them hey what do
you think of this and and it was
completely improvised uh there were
there was no nothing to read or so and
very quickly it started to take some
form and I knew the first little success
was when somebody reported hey you know
I talked with my kids at dinner about it
and they got it immediately and they
also immediately diagnosed us the
parents as being so no because and kids
are like that of course because kids are
open-minded to many many uh uh ideas and
uh from there it moved forward pretty
quickly. Uh maybe the second moment that
I knew we had something was when
somebody one of it was a a young lady, a
young manager who was in one of those
groups of three or four people and she
reported that oh they had a group
meeting on some project that didn't go
anywhere and it wasn't this didn't work
and that didn't work and they were
completely stuck and she said and I know
that when she told me that she was a
little insecure if she could do that she
said well and then somebody at the table
said, "Let's try this stupid art thing."
You know, that's that yes if. And she
said, "Exactly." I loved it because a it
showed that she had courage for
starters. But more importantly what she
said afterwards is we tried it and
suddenly the dynamics changed
>> and that's when I learned a lesson is
that the no cause to yes if transition
is not just a personal thing or a
project one or it is a group one because
very often we are all stuck in our own
no causes but when you tell somebody
else on a yes if basis the other person
often can solve some of the ifs and
that's when it started to take off
>> right any specific ific concrete
examples of something that happened that
>> there's a there's a massive concrete
example because we coupled it with uh
what we called at that time the rule of
40 and the rule of 40 was the addition
of the the the growth rate of revenue
and the profitability
>> and we were well below 40 and said oh
we're going to move in that direction
which is a very measurable uh thing and
if you look at our results starting
literally in 2019 you can see a break in
the curve of profitability and and align
that for many years then continue to go
up and you know of course this was the
work of many many people that all had
their own yes iff uh change vectors to
to execute on but that mindset change
for me it turned into an insight that
I've had the opportunity to use with so
many people and by the way you know I
meet a very no because person almost
every Hey, right
>> early on. It's called the mirror.
>> And there the guy is with yet another
set of no because I've somewhat learned
to say no no today not I'm going to be
yes. I'll figure it out.
>> Practice what you preach.
>> Practice what you preach. Uh and
preaching is is you know it's really
role model ultimately. Right.
>> Right. And what about applying it to
your personal life? It it very much
applies because uh when you are a CEO as
you know there are so many things that
are fundamentally conflicting uh in
urgency in importance in who to deal
with in what what decisions uh to make
and consistently asking oneself the
question is what is actually between the
yes and the if. Yes, we can do this if
and by the way it's not just if right
it's if if if ever.
>> There's always a slew of those. And by
daring to look a little bit more like a
child towards the future, anything is
possible. One actually comes in with an
energy level that actually opens doors.
>> Right. Right. Energy being very
important in our ind industry. Right.
>> Now, especially in
>> I'm sure we'll get back to that later.
>> Yes. More than one meaning there.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Okay. So another quote that I love from
you is that if you have the brains to
understand, you should have the heart to
lead. And you've recently added and the
courage to act. So what does that triage
look like?
>> Well, here too, you know, uh it it's
it's an old history in many ways. uh
partially because uh one of the the
great benefits I got by being early in
in synopsis other people actually
essentially pushed and told me that
caring for others in the community is
actually important you know uh I I grew
up as parents that yeah they would give
some money to people but we were not you
know we didn't have much money and it
was not really learned right and
suddenly I I discovered as as a CEO, you
not only have the opportunity, but you
also in my opinion have a necessity and
a responsibility to look at the circles
around the company, which initially were
think such as simple as, you know, a
second harvest in Silicon Valley. You
know, the very fact that today
>> there are many hundreds of thousands of
people in Silicon Valley that have not
enough to eat
>> is is is a surprising situation. you
would say and it was sort of a surprise
to me too at that time. But out of that
came sort of this notion of think beyond
yourself. And uh I I must have heard or
or or coined this terminology of they
who have the brains to understand should
have the heart to help. And that was
really through all of these years became
gradually a mantra because I saw here is
this super intense industry the
high-tech industry and specifically of
course in our case semiconductors
and actually there are a lot of brains
and in all fairness for top leaders
there's no time because we're sitting on
this exponential of change that you need
to constantly be on and still if you
have the brains you should do some
helping And so I used that within the
company and it's then years later that I
realized there was also there also other
force fields and we have seen this uh in
the last seven eight years in the global
situation that suddenly there's scary
things happening around us and then
suddenly it becomes well you should also
have the courage to act and courage has
to come with some wisdom. There's no
point in sort of making some claims and
then be shut down or so. uh but it is
necessary for uh people that have this
fantastic uh responsibility of leading a
company or an organization to say you
know we think for the long term we think
broader in ourselves
>> right and we'll we'll talk a little bit
more in a few minutes about your
philanthropy but obviously you take this
again and apply it to your personal life
that we we do have a big responsibility
as individuals
>> we we do and you know o Over time
obviously synopsis has done well
therefore we have done well as a family
uh and and there too you know uh in
philanthropy over time becomes important
to actually realize there are many many
many great causes uh the question is and
I I think one should give broadly but at
the same time if you have the
opportunity to give more or or even
participate in certain things it's
useful to understand which ones will
have the biggest long-term impact And
therefore it's also in useful to
understand who are the leaders and how
do they act
>> because you know uh leading an NGO a
non-government organization is a really
tough job and I can tell you I've met
some people that are just
extraordinarily good. >> Fantastic.
>> Fantastic.
>> Yeah I have as well and I think that
what you were saying earlier about that
you didn't really learn it necessarily
as a child. Um, I mean it was one of the
the number one priorities for me when I
was um raising children.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> And we started going to to Haiti when um
when my kids were like 9 years old, nine
nine and 11. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Started going. So do you what about your
family? Do you did you really try to
breed that into your children
>> in a milder form? Uh early on actually
uh I took uh both of our young daughters
at that time to a uh the distribution of
food of uh second harvest. Uh and what
they saw they were very quiet afterwards
>> because it was I think one of those
moments of realizing oh yeah yeah there
there other challenges in the world. uh
the training is not over for for our uh
children who are adults now because over
time they have to participate more and
they will and they're learning well
>> right yeah no it's a it's a good lesson
so one of the the other lessons that I
remember um and actually was something
that you told me um and I I have used
this so often and I've quoted you and I
I give you credit any
wondering what it is
>> no that is that people determine the
value of a meeting by how often they
hear their voice. And for my job, when
I'm managing a group of CEOs, that has
played an incredibly important role. And
I think about it all the time. And it's
not just it's not hearing their voices
for the sake of hearing their voices,
right? It's not an ego thing. People
want to be heard. So, do you still
believe that? Do you remember that? Do
you remember telling me that?
>> Yeah, I I remember that. And it's it's
quite a while ago uh because my thinking
has evolved a little bit uh because I
realize a uh often people are very uh
stressed when they have to speak up in
an environment that that has maybe other
great people and so on and so so there's
a reason they remember only what they
said because that's the highest
intensity moment >> right
>> right
>> uh I would add something to that now
which is that uh in any group and that
includes the two of us the listening
part is just as important. And then the
third thing is can you make the other pe
person feel an inch taller by the time
the the the meeting is over. And you
know in in music and and sometimes jazz
gets stereotype too and you you hear
sentence like you know really work well
on the silences. What the hell does that
mean? Well, actually listening in a band
is a fantastic thing and it's just as
hard because you know I'm concentrated
on making sure I make do no mistakes and
why I do that I'm not listening to the
other band members.
>> But when I'm relaxed enough so that I'm
not worried about my own mistakes and
let's say for argument sake I'll put you
as the drummer and suddenly you do a
little thing and I hear that the organ
player picks up that same little accent.
Suddenly everybody wakes up and if then
I can do something that increases that
accent now suddenly the band is cruising
right call it being in the pocket and
that that means suddenly you're together
and whenever you can do that in a
meeting and again yes if works with that
because solving a bad if is a really big yes
yes
>> and and and if it's clear that you know
we solved it together. I brought up a
problem. I really didn't know what to
do. And you say, "Yeah, but go left
instead of right." And suddenly it's,
"Oh, wow. I hadn't thought about that."
The very fact that I recognize that you
just gave me a little gift
is a gift back to you, right? And so the
the dynamics of groups can be so
improved if one were just a best better
listener and you know, no to self become
still a better listener.
>> Right. Right. Yeah. I know. I I think I
remember uh I don't know if you remember
who Bob Pepper Bob Pepper was level one
>> great leader
>> and he told me very early on, Jody, I
think your superpower is listening. I
was like, really? That's what I mean. I
was so disappointed that that was my
superpower and maybe ultimately he's right.
right.
>> Yeah. And do listen and then do
something with it that makes Bob Pepper
proud that he told you something.
>> That's right. That's right. Um, so you
you're in um a position that you get to
be around a lot of CEOs, uh, myself as
well. And what are some of the traits
that you've seen consistently in very
effective and very successful CEOs and
leaders in general?
>> Well, you know, that that is an
unbelievably broad topic, right? One of
the characteristics that that people
don't often recognize is just the word
perseverance. You know, it it I'm always
surprised that somebody who maybe was
not the super smart one, was not the
super well-placed one, but who didn't
give up actually became successful. And
so perseverance is actually one of the
key characteristics of being successful.
Now, defining CEO by sort of the job
attributes, I always start with the
values and and and the foundation of the
values is integrity. And integrity is a
big, you know, three uh uh syllable
word, but it can be easily translated in
do what you say and say what you do. I
if you're there, you have the foundation
of trust uh building and sometimes what
you do ends up not being so great and
then you have to say that too, right?
And so in in in my value pyramid that is
that is absolutely the foundation. Now
at the top I put something very
different which is passion. The the the
passion for what you do and probably
that's also one of the reason that gives
people a drive to move forward. But uh
passion is contagious and the people
that have that and then can surround
themselves with not only compliment to
themselves but but also people that that
can build each other up is one of the
characteristics that really great CEOs
have. And you know earlier when you say
oh Art you did this or that with the
company it is it is always we it is
always we and and actually earlier
didn't we not briefly discuss how
important it is to have somebody who is
a contrarian right
>> somebody who who actually say hey real
mirror here you watch this thing here
>> you're truth tellers
>> you're truth tellers and you there's
some that are sort of always sort of on
the no because side but even that the
skill is to take their their because
thing and turn it in a positive if and
then do whatever yes we can uh around
that. But we all have limited
capabilities. And so
you become really who you surround
yourself with. And if you're willing to
have opposites or people that think more
broadly or have different skills,
they're a gift. They're absolutely
fantastic gift.
>> Right. Right. So, were there any traits
that you found important as a leader
that you really didn't have naturally
that you had to either earn or learn
over time?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
You know, I I always feel and still feel
right now that I've been a fraud that I
know so much less than I wish I had. Uh
I wish I had done some MBA. I wish I'd
actually pay attention in engineering
class. uh uh I wish I had spend spent
more attention earlier to health. Uh uh
but at the same time can say no no
that's not a good attitude. This is old
stuff that by being confronted in in in
high responsibility or high leverage
situations hopefully you learn how to
how to do better. But uh I've heard from
a number of other people that are uh
very intense in their domain this this
notion of you know deep down time I'm a
fraud you know I'm faking it until I
know how to do it real for real and you
can also say hey that's the courage to
to do some bets to to try something
>> right yeah I think it's interesting
because you know you often hear about
women having imposttor syndrome
>> oh yeah that's what it's called right
>> yeah so now I'm talking to one of the
most successful CEOs in the world who
also had
>> imposter syndrome. So I it's very
interesting because it's it can be
debilitating for some people.
>> Are you an imposter?
>> No. Maybe. I mean please I'm sitting in
a room of people that you know are twice
as educated as I am. Three times as
smart. So of course I'm like the real
imposttor. But you know what? It's it's
still fun.
>> So here's here's why I will argue that
you're not. It has not much to do with
education. It has not uh much to do with
all these other skills. People may have
other skills than you have or in some
areas better in some areas not. But you
have passion. You have passion for
excellence. You have passions for
learning, for improving things. That is
what matters. That's what matters.
>> Yeah. Well, at least I have that.
>> Not at least. That's a lot. There's a
lot to have. So you went through a
transition at Synopsis where you um
handed over the role of CEO to Cassine
Gazi and you're now the executive chair
at Synopsis.
>> What's the name of the guy again?
>> Uh Sassim. Sassim.
>> It sounds familiar. Sounds familiar. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> So he must have those characteristics.
Okay. So that's you know maybe um go
through the criteria that you know that
you went through in choosing him to
basically you know trust him with your
life's work and then maybe how did you
know it was time
>> okay I don't trust him it's my life's
work because it wasn't my life it was
ours's life's work and actually 25 years
he was part of that to build build this
but uh yeah how do you you trust
somebody with the future of the company
And uh you know I mentioned some of the
criteria from from the from the values
point of view but u actually let me use
sort of the definition of um uh vitality
that I like to use and I like to define
vitality in three lines. The first one
is both the ability and the drive and
you can replace the word drive with
persistence or energy. It takes actually
hard work and literally also physical
persistence uh to do this. So ability
and drive to learn,
adapt, and collaborate. Without
learning, you're nowhere in our field.
And actually in many fields, you're
nowhere because we know not only do we
still live on exponential, we live on a
whole bunch of exponentials right now.
And so the speed of learning and the
quality of learning is absolutely
essential. Secondly, you can learn a lot
academically. Then decide, well, I've
learned it. The adaptation is really
turning it into the the the practice of
things. And then third one is collaboration.
collaboration.
What we do is not possible as individuals.
individuals.
Everything we do is a team and it's not
an additive team. It's a multiplicative
team. A single person fails on something
important. We all fail together. And you
know great example is just in
semiconductors. It doesn't matter if
synopsis made a mistake in the tool or
the designer made a mistake in using the
tools or the the manufacturing made a
mistake in manufacturing the thing the
three of us we all fail right
>> and that's a multiplication not an
addition right and once one understands
this notion of multiplication there's
something very profound which is most of
the things we deal with are not scale
complexity issues they are systemic
complexity issues many things are
interwoven and so in the in this ability
to learn, adapt and collaborate. Those
three words try to capture both that
sophistication and the necessity to
continually be on the ball. And you of
course we do learn, adapt and uh
collaborate in order to survive and
thrive and a lot of CEO work is
surviving in so many way personally uh
as a team as a company as as
circumstances change as geopolitics
hammers one whatever it is you're still
there. So that's the vitality and um I
would consider the the learning the the
the the principle one because it's a
starting point and it what was very
clear to me already many years ago about
15 years ago was clear that Ceine was a
an outstanding learner and you know just
looking at now the last 18 months he has
had to learn a lot of stuff that that
was yet different than anything we had
done before.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And he I mean obviously a
lot of uh regulatory and geopolitical
complexities when he was trying to get
the ANC deal done and so what did you
you know teach not necessarily to Cine
but teach the the culture and the
leadership at synopsis of how to handle
that kind of pressure. Well, uh, and
it's sort of synopsis, but it's also in
in specific case of Cine is that, uh, I
had thought about succession a long time
ago and, uh, and was always looking for,
you know, where's their potential talent
and, uh, and preferably from the inside
because it reduces risk substantially.
And so part of not so much the teaching
as the enabling teaching was to over
time help him be in different positions
in the company. And at some point in
time, you know, so he he was sort of
spiraling gradually up and by the time
he became uh COO and then later uh COO
and president, it became clear and
clear, hey, you know, something's
happening here. And uh and all of those
steps was learning partially with you my
advice, but a lot of that was also just
no, put him in the situation and
actually don't say much. And that was
actually difficult for me to step back
because a number of people started think
oh you know art has nothing to say
anymore and and so on. That was
unbelievably difficult to not say oh the
answer is this or we should do this and
but but let him speak first and drive
things. Uh but having said that in the
process it was clear that to me that he
was a fantastic choice. that doesn't
mean that that there's not a lot more he
has to learn and as you said you know uh
the geopolitical challenges started well
before that about six seven years ago
with was challenges uh between the US
and China and then there was other form
of geopolitical or geoperiod issues
which was of course covid uh that was a
big big challenge in many ways but
that's a great example of systemic
complexity becoming even more systemic
and so the one of my criter area is can
people understand systemic complexity
somewhat intuitively and and deal with
it without being overwhelmed.
>> This episode is brought to you by Needam
and Company. George needed founded
Needam and Company with the vision to be
one of the leading investment banks to
the semiconductor industry. Most
founders pivot, but for more than 40
years, NEM has been part of the fabric
of the semiconductor industry and has
partnered for decades with industry
leaders like applied materials, Intel,
Lamb Research, and Synopsis. Having had
a front row seat for numerous cycles,
NEM has never felt stronger about the
industry's short and long-term prospects
and looks forward to continued
partnering with today's and tomorrow's
industry leaders. Let's get back to the
episode. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean
that's a perfect lead into the sort of
the next topic which is sort of the
state of the world today. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And you know how you know whether
whether it is the geopolitics
whether it is our consumption of social
media or our consumption of news and it
seems that technology has created
so many benefits for humanity
>> but there are challenges. Yes. both
unintended and maybe in some cases
intended unintended consequences when
you think about social media for example.
example. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So what's your advice on you know how we
can live a more soulful existence with
all this chaos and turmoil and all the
white noise?
>> Yes. I think it's extraordinarily
difficult question that you're asking
here because uh many of the the forces
that you're describing are much bigger
than individuals. They're also much
bigger than even groups that don't know
what they have unleashed and and where
it's going. Although I must say, hey, uh
if I look at my parents when uh the Cuba
crisis happened, which was the early
60s, that sounded overwhelmingly big too
and it could have been, right? And you
know uh every generation has had
essentially these certainly in the last
200 years these waves of technology or
new capabilities or warfare that have
shocked uh humanity and some of the
shocks were ended up being positive. Uh
but many things change is painful in
general even if it's positive change if
you take you know the the steam engine.
Well, for all the people that had, you
know, uh horses to to to drive some some
some stuff or so, suddenly the train
destroyed that. And over time, you say,
well, it's more efficient and there's
advances, but the the transition is
what's actually most difficult. And
we're seeing this right now. There's an
unbelievably high degree of hunger for
more energy. And yet we all know that
right now a large amount of the energy
uh produces emissions that are
catastrophic for humanity. And so
there's a transition that's needed. Well
transition I think it was Maggie Tatcher
even that said you oh it has to get
worse before it gets better. And all all
CEOs know the simple question uh never
let a good crisis go unused. And there's
some truth to that but also never forget
of the people that in the crisis are
actually the ones that get hurt. And I
if one sees it that way now one can
start turning it to a yes if you know if
we understand that this transformation
will lead to these people or these these
entities to be harmed what can we do
preemptively about it and just by
putting it into the ifs set we have
broadened our own systemic uh
understanding to something where
leadership is actually worthy.
>> Right. Right.
So when one of the things again that
that social media has um one of the
problems that it has caused is this kind
of constant comparison versus
contribution. But the other thing is is
that you're you're pigeonholed into
believing one thing and then you're fed
that information sort of over and over
again. and we've heard about the you
know these algorithms doing that and so
it becomes very difficult to change
one's mind about something in our
industry we're pretty used to changing I
mean we have to be flexible about
everything you change on a dime I mean
this year doesn't look anything like
last year and it certainly doesn't look
like it did five or 10 years ago so
maybe what's something that you've
changed your mind about that actually
took persuasion from either someone else
or some other group that you know that
you're proud proud that you were mature
enough and progressive enough to sort of
Yet another one of those very difficult
questions because when do you know it's
just learning versus when do you know no
I actually was fundamentally stuck on a
model that was too simplistic uh of the
world and so you know
just maybe reusing an example that we we
talked about earlier this this notion of
uh how is it possible that Silicon
Valley needs uh uh multiple services
that provide food. You know, was that
just being blind? uh was it just well
you know I had not seen that or was it
actually a uh naive version of
understanding of the world and you know
if if I look uh at let's say the the the
great American adventure since World War
II uh the immense success of the country
uh in actually bringing up one of the
highest standard of living is somewhat
uh touched by the fact that there are a
lot of people in this country that are
below the an acceptable standard of
living and that one of the most
remarkable countries in the history of
certainly the last h 100red years uh has
not been able to deal with that and I'm
part of that I'm part of the industry
that's been successful that has been
changing all of these things and and all
of these questions by the way now are
greatly amplified through the whole
question so what's AI going to do about
this and and well there's some
remarkable great successes and there's
some remarkable awful stories already
about what it could do but at the end of
the day it's us it's us that decide us
humans that decide how we deal with the
world and so I think the increase of uh
saying it's our responsibility actually
that's that's another way of adding you
know the brain's too hard to courage to
action right into action, >> right?
>> right?
>> Uh I I think I'm still learning. I'm
still learning and the question is
learning how to be effective in this.
>> Right. So, we were talking earlier about
um that I had recently reread Clayton
Christensen's book, How to Measure Your
Life, and it I mean, it's a great book,
but one of the things that he brings up
is that where you spend your time and
resources that reflects what your real
values are. Like we may think we believe
one thing, but if you're not spending
your time or resources on it, then you
probably really don't believe that. So
what do you spend your time and
resources on that you believe that you
fundamentally believe aligns with your values?
values?
>> Well, you know, and I I look at the the
this uh synopsis time and the now
different synopsis time because at the
beginning there was almost no choice. uh
you know as as a young CEO and then as a
not so young CEO who was the same who
was like no choice on time uh I think
you and I remember vaguely uh E times
which was a newspaper at that time
before the internet
>> about our industry right of
semiconductors and you know that thing
would arrive I forget which day of the
week and the first thing I would go very
quickly through it you know what uh
horrible thing has just happened that
could endanger us as a company was
always this paranoia of tomorrow and you
know I've never lost that and you know I
think only the paranoid survive was Andy
Grove's gift to uh to bookdom I guess
>> yes and there's some truth to that and
so the reality is how much choice do you
have over your time and so if Christian
says yeah but you have to take choice
you have to make choices he's absolutely
right about that and I would say oh well
you know I have to spend better time
with my family and you know I'm I'm
thankful the fact that both of our now
grownup u daughters have become really
good people. But you know, at some point
in time was like, "Okay, here's the
little uh tag I have on my shirt when I
come home from yet another trip." Say,
"Your dad. I'm your dad. Just remember
that." Right? And and the the stress and
the the the jet lag and all of that were
were difficult. Now, in in in the next
phase now where I'm uh essentially
really the top supporter of Cine by
being chair, um uh I spend the rest of
my time on a whole new quest. And the
whole new quest is actually to
understand uh the systemic complexity of
energy and climate. Now I'm already
starting to modify it and wanting to say
AI, energy and climate because AI is
such a forcing function of change right
now which is both a potential issue and
potential opportunity to use that to to
drive different energy considerations.
And the reason I'm I'm so vested in that
is because I can easily see why what's
happening on the emission side is
heading straight to a massive uh human
catastrophe and therefore we have to
find a way to bend that curve in a
different direction. That's back to the
earlier talk. It's so difficult to
actually transition things right because
gets worse before it gets better. And so
uh trying to dedicate as much time I can
on that is in in the category of the
topics. But the other angle to your
question is or Christensen's uh
assessment is not just which time is
which people and and that goes back to I
think lessons that I wish I had learned
earlier but at the end of the day often
people let's say that want to go to
college you know they have all these
expectations you have to write an essay
on what you're going to do with your
life and why it's worthy to come to our
university and stuff like that and they
have no clue. They have no clue and
they're they're almost panicky. And I've
I've changed my advice there towards
saying, "Hey, you know, just pick the
people you really like, people that you
respect, the professor that was able to
make you an inch taller
>> just because you're excited about something."
something."
>> A and until you know what your passion
is going to be and how you may or may
not make a difference around you, align
yourself with people you think are
great. And I think that is really good advice.
advice.
>> Yeah. I think that you know I think it
was Tom Freriedman many years ago at the
US executive forum said that you know
this generation would have like seven
different occupations in their lifetime.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> Okay. And if you do then that means that
you can miss on the first couple of them.
them.
>> Yeah. And I I I would and Tom is really
good at at putting it in very tight uh
uh little sentences. Right. I I would
say don't use the word miss on a few of
them. If you could really learn and
experiment, right? And and it's actually
our fear of being a miss that stops us
from being open-minded and learning.
>> Just like my fear of playing the wrong
note makes me not listen to what our
keyboard player just did.
>> Yeah, I think that's a perfect analogy.
So, okay. So, I want to touch a little
bit more on on fatherhood. Okay. So, you
know, because I think that, you know, I
hear kids now and both men and women
>> say, you know, I don't even want to have
children because, you know, just the
kinds of choices that have to be made.
Um, again, men and women. So, how did
you sort of protect fatherhood and what
advice do you have for someone sort of
starting their career on how you manage
that and still have a close relationship
with your children and have an impact?
Well, there's sort of the stuff I did,
but even more the stuff I wish I did, right?
right?
>> And and I wish in hindsight that I had
more often at dinner talked about what I
actually do. At the same time, I look
back and I say I had no ability to do
that because after I don't know 12 half
hour or 14 half hour meetings, you're
completely zapped. And uh and still the
few stories I told, the few things they
did pick up, right? And of course they
look like they're not listening at all,
right? But they still hear it. They
still hear it. And so and you know, I
have the the the good fortune to have as
a spouse somebody who is equally
passionate about her work. She works in
in cancer epidemiology
and is is a researcher and publishes
papers. And so she has an understanding
for what it's like when she is under
stress and and yet another grant
proposal or or paper is due, you know,
uh next Monday and you know essentially
no sleep and just finish those things.
And so we we have been able to support
each other. But I think what our kids
learned out of that is a certain degree
of intensity and uh and passion uh and
in different forms they have found their
own way uh to say oh I don't want to be
like my parents for starters they're
working way way too hard but at the same
time be very balanced and good people
and so uh I don't know that that I knew
the recipe
>> but there's no question in my mind that
you know children are the greatest gift
you can get and and sometimes it's not
your own children. Sometimes if you you
don't have children, there's some other
child arounds that that can be helped
and that can uh uh greatly benefit from
uh some act of love or attention.
>> This episode is brought to you by GSME.
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customers. Now, back to the episode.
>> Yeah, I like this whole idea of sort of
the integration of both your
professional life and your personal life
so that your children do have some
understanding. I I see people doing that
more now.
>> So then, you know, um again to get a bit personal.
personal.
>> So tell me a little bit about how you
made it work with two ambitious people
in the home, highly successful, highly
passionate about what they do. How did
you maneuver that? I remember the um the
CEO of PepsiCo. I recently listened to a
podcast that she did and she said that
her husband thought PepsiCo children my
mother then all these things and she
came the husband came dead last and so
you know it's easy to put your spouse
dead last. So how did how did you guys
avoid that? You're still married so you
must have avoided it.
>> Yeah. Well but but you just send me into
the ultimate guilt trip of all the
things that I could have and should have
done uh better. And so, you know, let me
just highlight first that uh the the my
wife is maybe the greatest gift that uh
I got and not always appreciated
sufficiently for that because he somehow
found found an understanding of you know
this guy whatever he does he he won't
stop because that's who he is. And it's
it's more over time that I've gotten to
appreciate how many steps she took to to
make that possible and put herself on a
back burner that once the kids were out
of the house suddenly I saw the
intensity that she had
>> and and so in in hindsight I wish had
been able to be more supportive of her
career earlier on
but you know she made our family
successful and uh uh you
I don't want to go too far into the
guilt trip because you know flowers
won't do. Right. This is this is much
deeper than that.
>> Right. Well, I'm Does she get to spend
more time with you now or it's equally
as challenging?
>> You know, actually in a weird way, one
of the best experiences as I look back
was co. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> We were in the same house and we met 17
times in at crossing at the kitchen. We had
had
>> Were your children here too?
>> No, they were not. Okay.
>> They were not uh uh they in their 30s
and so so co was 5 years ago. So and so
uh and suddenly we had um brief lunches
together just sitting outdoors and uh I
think it it matured maybe matured just
me. I probably needed more maturing but
uh uh it it was actually a way to learn
how to do things differently.
>> Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that if
something good came of co it was a
family time in many cases
>> for some and for some it was the
opposite right it was the the big challenge.
challenge. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So let's switch gears and talk a little
bit um more about jazz. Okay. So you've
already given a few um examples of how
>> it influenced your leadership,
>> but maybe a little bit more about how
you know how it has impacted your life
and how you lead and
>> well you know uh sometimes I I joke or
maybe don't joke and say hey leading a
band is a lot harder than leading a
company and partially it's it's not a
joke because uh creative people uh have
an ability ability to turn a corner when
you don't expect it to happen. And
actually one of the the coolest thing
and we're still learning that as a band
is and we're we're interesting and this
is now management from Synopsis coming
into the band saying oh let's talk about
this and and let's make it sort of uh
clear that one of the rules is if
somebody makes a a mistake while we're
we're playing
a gig, the role of the rest of the band
is to make that mistake go away. not
look at, you know, why did you do that?
And, you know, we all make mistakes. And
interesting enough, the singer is the
person that needs to be protected most.
You know, it's sort of like the queen in
chess or something like that. And and
and I would never say that she makes
mistakes. I just say, "Oh, she made a
decision to not go to the chorus, but to
what's called the bridge or
and and the whole band goes, did we just
go to the bridge? What happened? What
happened here?" Right? Our job is to in
zero time redo the chords, figure out
what to do so that she sounds great. A and
and
being able to voice that explicitly. A
brought many jokes about it and and the
singer said, "Do you mean I make
mistakes?" No, we all make those. But
but this is the playing together. This
is the notion of we're a multiplication,
not an addition. Mhm.
>> And it's been cool to see how how the
band has done well with that. And uh and
we all make mistakes like this from time
to time. And the more we we can do that
together, that's not any different than
a good exact team. An exact team shines
when somebody not somebody when we are
in a bad spot and we t all Yes. If as
hard as we possibly can on each other,
>> right? Yeah, I get that. So you when you
were young, you met um one of your um
jazz idols.
>> Yeah. Barney Kessle. Is that the story?
>> Yes, that's the story. So tell us about
meeting him and maybe how it impacted
and changed
>> your thought process.
>> Well, so so I'm uh in undergrad uh in
Switzerland that I grew up mostly in
Switzerland. I was undergrad and nearby
a town called Montro which is well known
for his jazz festival. Mucho Jazz
Festival on the Lake of Geneva.
>> And I had been to a couple of concerts
there uh before and I had learned one
thing which is hey you know when they
open the doors if you're close to the
doors you run like crazy because it's
open seating. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And if you if you're really fast you can
make it to the first or second row.
Don't go for the first row because if
you're on the first row you will
suddenly find it's all reserved. Go for
the second row. That's as close as you
can get, right, to the musicians.
>> So then there was this guy um Barney
Kessle who was really a great jazz
guitar player from the very first
generation. So his first records were
like 1940s that far back and he was
going to play and I needed to go see
that and I had one record by him and I
had read the back cover like you know 40
times while listening to it and so I
went so early so early that the doors
were not closed yet and so it was sort
of dark and I can still today see it
towards the left along a hallway there
was some some light and some some sounds
and I sort of just mos to eat in. And to
my great surprise, it turned out it was
a cocktail party. Not that I knew at
that time what a cocktail party was, but
people standing around with some glass
talking to each other. And it turns out
it was the release cocktail party of a
record by Barney Kessle. So, it was the
the recording company had organized
that. And so, I'm sort of looking around
and suddenly right there, right there, I
see him. And and at that point in time,
my whole body changed. sort of I started
to do sort of this random walk you know
interesting ceiling and meanwhile my
internal laser I'm laser guided to get
closer and closer and closer to the to
this guy and so I'm sort of standing
there and suddenly our eyes meet and and
he had dark very
forceful eyes >> okay
>> okay
>> and I just blurted out and I I couldn't
speak English very well at that time I
just blurted out Mr. Kessle, how do you practice?
practice?
And he he he was so magnanimous.
Oh, that's easy. You find some people
that are better than you. You play with
them, and you practice, and you practice
until you're just as good. And then you
find some people that are better than
you, and you practice, and you practice
until you're just as good. And then a
third time, you find some people that
are still better than you, and you
practice, and you practice until you're
just as good. And then when you cannot
find anybody, you come see me and you
teach me.
>> I love it.
>> And the reason I know exactly about 15
18 years or so ago, I found in one of my
notebooks little, you know, like like
you do when you you're adolescent, you
you glue stuff in, you write things
down, little poem, that kind of stuff. I
had written down exactly what he said,
the three times. A and to me the magic
of his closure all these years later was
sort of the essence of learning combined
with the essence of humility.
>> Such beautiful center and then you teach me
me >> right
>> right
>> and uh and I think that for me suddenly
sealed the whole notion of what learning
is all about. It is actually cherishing
the fact that one is not as good as what
could be that there are other people
that are so fantastic around one and it
also consolidated this whole notion of
just don't look for your own passion.
The passion will come at an unexpected
moment. Surround yourself by people that
are great, people that are humble
themselves, people that are generous
role models.
>> That's what I've done. Look who I get to
be around. Oh,
>> it's great.
>> It's mutual. It's mutual.
>> So, I want to end by asking you when
it's all said and done, you know, how do
you want to be remembered? You know, how
do you want the industry to remember
you? How do you want your family and
humanity to remember you?
>> Well, I don't think humanity is going to
matter so much.
>> Make a big difference on climate. So,
>> Well, no, I haven't. See, that's the
problem with that's the
>> But you still have time.
>> We still have time. Well, I'll I'll I'll
I'll work hard on it. But, uh, you know, and
and
>> I don't know if if I'm worth
remembering, but it's a difficult
question because if if I think what I
actually cherish most is if if I hear
later and sometimes I do hear that that
I inspired somebody, it is sort of the
and and also I love discussions like
this because we're both learning, right,
at the same time. And yes, you have put
the focus a little bit too much on me.
But but but the fact is it's in
discussions like this that one sharpens
one own understanding while hopefully
making the other person find oh there's
something I that changes my life that
that and so you know inspiring people
making them an inch taller. Uh, and I'm
I'm I feel horrible to say I've many
times made them an inch smaller and not
always been great at this, but nonetheless,
nonetheless,
doing something that inspires people to
be bigger and better in some form or
other is probably uh the one thing that
I would be most thankful if that was the
epitap on the stone or whatever at the end.
end.
>> Well, you have one person you've
inspired. So,
>> well, thank you. Thank you.
>> Thank you for doing this with me. This
has been fun. So, let me ask you this. I
want to I'm going to get to this last
portion which we call the last tape out.
So, I'm going to
>> The last tape out.
>> The last tape out.
>> Yeah. The tape better be good.
>> That's right. And I'm going to ask you
some questions. You quick answer. But
before I do that,
>> think about a question for one of our
future uh guests on the show. So, one of
them is going to be Lisa Sue. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> So, what should I ask Lisa Sue? What
would you like to ask Lisa Sue? Maybe
they're the same.
Well, Lisa is a person I I greatly
admire and and so
yeah, one wants to ask somebody about
something that's actually difficult uh
to um and I I want to say she has done
two very great things already which is a
she essentially uh restored a company
that was heading from disaster to utter
disaster i.e. down the drain and and in
that sense she became the CEO that that
fixed it to being viable. Then she
became the CEO that established a whole
new position for that company back in
industry where it was no longer a number
two player or distant number two player
but became a real player. That is an
unbelievable accomplishment in its own.
uh and build essentially had rebuild the
company to be viable and then build it
to became a to become a very strong
company. So strong actually that with
that comes an immensely difficult
challenge which is now the whole world
is changing again partially helped but
what she and a number of other great
leaders in our industry have done which
is enable this whole AI++
uh world and with it comes all the
questions about energy all the questions
that you had about you know um media
influencing us the AI now maybe tricking
and what have you.
>> Uh but most importantly,
how will she learn when there are no teachers?
teachers?
>> There are no people that that are are
that far ahead. Of course, she can learn
from competitors and so on and and that
is a way to learn,
>> but how will she learn or is it no the
the specifics don't matter as much as
the fundamentals, which she has many of.
>> Okay. All right. Well, we will let her
know that. So, okay. Okay. So, I'm going
to ask you these quick questions and
Okay. You you can take as long as you
want to answer them, by the way.
>> Okay. Okay. Well,
>> all right. So, the first is, who's the
smartest person you ever met?
>> Well, smart is not the same as
intelligent. And you know, one person
comes up to mind I spent uh as an
adolescent every summer on a farm. And
uh you know, the farmer who was also a
bit of an entrepreneur in that village
uh was maybe 15 years older than I am.
So he was it was sort of more of a big
brother or a second father if you like
and he was pretty down to earth on
things including the vocabulary that
when it rained it was not a little rain
it was always a catastrophe of rain and
so on because people that that work on
real farms on on real things that have
to do with with feeding a village the
animals and all that they really know
about reality and and I've learned
probably more on that farm on management
than any other place uh certainly before
I became a manager.
>> Okay. I love that. I love that. So what
is a misconception that people have
about you?
>> Well, you know, often people ask me
about are you not proud of this and that
and achievements and so on and and the
misconception is I am completely focused
on tomorrow,
>> not not yesterday. I'm always interested
by by moment a problem sort of semi goes
away I'm already on onto the next thing
and you know actually I learned this
lesson one more time uh during the the
the pass the passing the baton to the
scene because once I announced it there
were so many people that were uh
humbling so uh thankful and and letters
and phone calls and some some people say
can I meet you one last time and I was
thinking Have they talked to my doctor?
Do they know that you know am I dying or
what's what's happening? And it it
became in in all the this so humbling
thank yous.
I was more and more depressed until I
understood something. Every single one
speaks in passive voice passes in past
tense. You did this, you had that. You
worked this. Thank you for and so on.
And the very few that look at and what's
next sort of it's so great that now you
don't have to work so hard and you can
go play golf or something that for me is horrible but okay nothing wrong with
horrible but okay nothing wrong with golf but
golf but I am was so interested in so no I want
I am was so interested in so no I want to be doing something that's newly
to be doing something that's newly challenging and and not you know be on a
challenging and and not you know be on a zillion boards or so but but something
zillion boards or so but but something truly where you don't know what the
truly where you don't know what the outcome is going to be.
outcome is going to be. >> Right. Right. Okay.
>> Right. Right. Okay. So, what is your vac favorite vacation
So, what is your vac favorite vacation spot?
spot? >> Well,
>> Well, you know, I think favorite what a
you know, I think favorite what a vacation spot what makes my vacation
vacation spot what makes my vacation spots favorite is the people I'm with.
spots favorite is the people I'm with. >> It's the people I'm with. And and
>> It's the people I'm with. And and frankly, any spot can become favorite
frankly, any spot can become favorite because some stupid little
because some stupid little restaurant somewhere where we just talk
restaurant somewhere where we just talk to the night is just as great as being
to the night is just as great as being on the highest mountain and and have the
on the highest mountain and and have the world around us, which is fantastic,
world around us, which is fantastic, too. It's all who you do it with.
too. It's all who you do it with. >> Okay. Yep. Makes sense. So, what is your
>> Okay. Yep. Makes sense. So, what is your pet peeve?
pet peeve? >> No, because that is pretty easy.
>> No, because that is pretty easy. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> I cannot stand that.
>> I cannot stand that. >> Okay. So, what is your go-to coffee
>> Okay. So, what is your go-to coffee order?
order? >> You do coffee?
>> You do coffee? >> Well, the uh uh my adult daughters would
>> Well, the uh uh my adult daughters would think of me as as a coffee neander toler
think of me as as a coffee neander toler because I go instant coffee, some
because I go instant coffee, some creamer, and some sweetener. Okay, done.
creamer, and some sweetener. Okay, done. >> Okay,
>> Okay, >> that's a level of sophistication.
>> that's a level of sophistication. >> All right. Okay. So, this is an
>> All right. Okay. So, this is an interesting question. If you had to be
interesting question. If you had to be 20 again,
20 again, would you choose to be 20 today or would
would you choose to be 20 today or would you do wish to be 20 when you were
you do wish to be 20 when you were growing up?
growing up? >> It's not if you had to. I am 20 again. I
>> It's not if you had to. I am 20 again. I am absolutely
am absolutely >> I always say that I have age dysmorphia.
>> I always say that I have age dysmorphia. No,
No, >> this is more uh I am 20 partially
>> this is more uh I am 20 partially because being 20 means trying and doing
because being 20 means trying and doing stuff where you actually don't know what
stuff where you actually don't know what the outcome is going to be where where
the outcome is going to be where where where uh uh it may be crazy to even hope
where uh uh it may be crazy to even hope for it. There is a a timeline that's
for it. There is a a timeline that's sticking backwards from from life. Uh
sticking backwards from from life. Uh and but you know I'm still looking my
and but you know I'm still looking my driver's essence and I want to scratch
driver's essence and I want to scratch out the number. So, I am 20 right now
out the number. So, I am 20 right now this minute.
this minute. >> Well, I'm 20 with you.
>> Well, I'm 20 with you. >> Fantastic.
>> Fantastic. >> Just fun 20-year-olds. So, thanks for
>> Just fun 20-year-olds. So, thanks for doing this with me.
doing this with me. >> Oh, thanks for the the honor of of
>> Oh, thanks for the the honor of of having this done.
having this done. >> Good. It's been fun.
>> Good. It's been fun. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thanks.
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