YouTube Transcript:
How to Use Music to Boost Motivation, Mood & Improve Learning | Huberman Lab Podcast

Skip watching entire videos - get the full transcript, search for keywords, and copy with one click.

Video Transcript

View:

welcome to the huberman Lab podcast

where we discuss science and

I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a professor

of neurobiology and Ophthalmology at

Stanford School of Medicine

today we are discussing music and your

brain however this episode could have

just as easily been entitled music is

your brain or your brain is music and

that's because music believe it or not

is a neurological phenomenon most of us

think of music as something that happens

outside of us the sounds we hear the

lyrics we hear their meaning how they

anchor us to pieces of our history both

emotional or social

it turns out that when we listen to

music it activates nearly every piece of

our brain moreover when we listen to

music it activates our brain in ways

that our brain itself and indeed our

body as well helped to create that music

at the level of so-called neural

ensembles that is the firing of neurons

in other words when we listen to music

our brain and our body become part of

the instrument that contributes to our

perception of that music today I'm going

to make clear how all of that happens we

will also discuss how music can be

leveraged towards shifting our brain

States and our bodily States for

instance what sorts of music to listen

to in order to make ourselves happy yes

Studies have been done on that as well

as how long to listen to music in order

to shift our mood or our overall bodily

State including how to process feelings

of sadness many of you are probably

familiar with particular songs that

anchor us to particular times in our

history or people in our history and

there's an age-old question really as to

whether or not listening to sad music

can help us process our feelings of

sadness or whether or not they drive us

further down the spiral of sadness and

despair and indeed Studies have explored

this as well so today I will explain how

music indeed how different types of

music activate different neural circuits

in your brain to create different brain

and bodily States how we can leverage

music toward things like emotional

processing shifting our emotions as well

as to enhance learning and memory and we

will also talk about the use of music to

enhance brain plasticity that is your

brain's ability to change in response to

experience not just in response to that

music but rather using music as a tool

to expand our capacity for

neuroplasticity giving us the ability to

learn far more in other contexts and

areas of life I confess that in

researching this episode I found myself

continually delighted as to first of all

how impressive the science of the study

of Music in the brain is and secondly

how fundamental music is to all of our

lives and this is true whether or not

you're somebody who listens to music

often or you're somebody that really for

silence indeed we will talk about

whether or not it's better to listen to

music or remain in silence when you

perform certain kinds of work it turns

out that there's a very clear answer to

that if you want a little bit of a Hint

it is best to listen to music in between

bouts of work or during brief rest

periods as opposed to listening to music

while you work and for those of you that

listen to music while you work and

thoroughly enjoy listening to music

while you work we will also discuss what

that means about your brain in

particular because it's likely that it

got wired up that way at a particular

phase of development and each and all of

you can learn today how to best leverage

music toward productivity but perhaps

equally important how to leverage music

for enrichment and enjoyment of life I'm

pleased to announce that we will be

hosting three live events in Australia

all three events will cover science and

science related tools for mental health

physical health and performance there

will also be a Live question and answer

session the first live event will take

place on February 10th in Melbourne at

the plenary theater

the second live event will take place on

February 17th in Sydney at the Sydney

Opera House and the third event will

take place on February 23rd in Brisbane

at the Great Hall to access tickets to

any of these events simply go to

hubermanlab.com tour and use the code

huberman I hope to see you there and

last but certainly not least thank you

for your interest in science before we

begin I'd like to emphasize that this

podcast is separate from my teaching and

research roles at Stanford it is however

part of my desire and effort to bring

zero cost to Consumer information about

science and science related tools to the

general public in keeping with that

theme I'd like to thank the sponsors of

today's podcast our first sponsor is

eight sleep eight sleep makes Smart

mattress covers with cooling Heating and

sleep tracking capacity

spoken many times before on this podcast

about the fact that sleep that is

getting enough quality sleep each night

is the foundation of mental health

physical health and performance one of

the key things to getting a great

night's sleep is to make sure that your

body temperature drops by about one to

three degrees at the beginning of the

night indeed that is how your body falls

and stays deeply asleep as well in order

to wake up in the morning feeling

refreshed your bodily temperature needs

to increase by about one to three

degrees eight Sleep mattress covers make

it extremely easy to control the

temperature of your sleeping environment

allowing you to fall and stay deeply

asleep throughout the night and to wake

up feeling refreshed I started sleeping

on an eight-sleep mattress cover well

over two years ago and it has completely

transformed my sleep it's allowed me to

fall asleep more quickly it's allowed me

to sleep more deeply throughout the

night and if I happen to wake up during

the middle of the night something that's

perfectly normal to do once or even

twice I fall back asleep far more

quickly and I wake up feeling refreshed

as a consequence my mood focus and

alertness throughout the day is greatly

elevated as compared to prior to

sleeping on my eight Sleep mattress

cover if you'd like to try an

eight-sleep mattress cover you can go to

atesleep.com huberman to save 150 off

their pod 3 cover each sleep currently

ships in the USA Canada UK select

countries in the EU and Australia again

that's eightsleep.com huberman today's

episode is also brought To Us by Roca

Roca makes eyeglasses and sunglasses

that are the absolute highest quality

I've spent a lifetime working on the

biology the visual system and I can tell

you that your visual system has to

contend with an enormous number of

challenges in order for you to be able

to see clearly in different environments

Roka understands the biology of the

visual system and has designed their

eyeglasses and sunglasses so that you

always see with Crystal Clarity

originally their glasses were designed

for performance that is for running and

cycling and for sport and indeed they

can still be used for performance they

won't slip off your face if you get

sweaty they're extremely lightweight but

I should mention that Roca eyeglasses

and sunglasses come in some of the

Aesthetics more typically associated

with performance glasses like those

cyborg Style I have glasses but they

also have a number of styles that you

would be perfectly comfortable wearing

out to dinner or to work I wear readers

at night or when I drive and I wear

sunglasses during the day if I happen to

be driving into bright light or outside

and it's just overwhelmingly bright I do

not wear sunglasses when I do my morning

sunlight viewing to set my circadian

rhythm and I suggest that you do the

same if you'd like to try Roca

eyeglasses or sunglasses you can go to

Roka roka.com and enter the code

huberman to save 20 off your first order

again that's Roca roka.com and enter the

code huberman at checkout okay let's

talk about music and your brain and to

start off I just want to take a step

back and acknowledge something that is

absolutely remarkable about music which is

if you think about language

I could describe to you a glass I could

describe to you an apple I could

describe to you a story I could describe

to you a face I could describe to you

any number of different things and you

could do the same for me language is

essentially infinite in the number of

things that it can explain and the ways

that it can explain it

and yet if you think about music music

provided there are no lyrics in that

music can't explain how a glass is

shaped it can't even tell you that

there's a glass present in the room or

on a table it can't tell you what a face

looks like it can't tell you what that

person who owns that face did or is

doing so in some ways you might think

wow music is fairly diminished in terms

of its qualitative depth compared to language

language

and yet if you take a step back and

think about what music can do it's

astonishing and it actually overwhelms

What language can do what can music do

well even in the absence of any lyrics

any words put to music music can

describe an emotion in fact music can

describe numerous types of emotions and

they can do it with a lot of nuance so

not just displaying for us happy or sad

but rather different degrees of

Happiness different degrees of Sadness

music can be used to convey a sense of

longing a sense of nostalgia a sense of

delight a sense of awe and on and on so

whereas music can't describe nouns very

well it can beautifully describe emotions

emotions

and not only can music describe emotions

with a tremendous degree of nuance music

can evoke emotions with a tremendous

degree of nuance

now this is spectacular and it's not

only spectacular it is important because

as we move through today's episode

you'll soon come to realize that it's

very likely

and indeed we have a lot of scientific

evidence to support the fact that music

evolved prior to spoken language

moreover it's very likely that singing

evolved prior to spoken language and

that music singing and dance together

evolved prior to language making music

as well as singing and dance but really

just music even on its own in the

absence of any lyrics or any bodily

movement as the fundamental form of

human communication indeed music can

evoke empathy again we're talking about

music in the absence of any lyrics When

I Say music can evoke empathy I'm not

talking about the sort of empathy where

you look at somebody and Nod and

understand so-called cognitive empathy

which is important by the way in

relational Dynamics or emotional empathy

where you're actually feeling what the

other person is feeling but of course

you never really know what somebody else

is feeling how could you you can only

have a sense of what they might be feeling

feeling

and you have a sense of what you're

feeling but let's be honest um as one of

our prior guests on the huberman Lab

podcast Dr Carl dyseroff so aptly noted

rarely do we ever understand how anyone

else truly feels because indeed rarely

do we ever understand how we ourselves

truly feel and certainly with language

it's very hard to explain our feelings

with words in a way that can convey the

way that we feel with the kind of nuance

that represents our own reality even in

a state of extreme happiness or extreme

sadness words fall short of explaining

how we feel inside and yet as I

mentioned earlier music not only can

describe emotions it can evoke emotions

within us and in doing so it can evoke

emotions that give us a sense of empathy

for the person playing the music or

simply for others in the world and music

can do that so powerfully because not

only does music come in through our ears

and we'll talk about the process of how

sound is converted into what we perceive

as music in a little bit because indeed

it comes in through our ears and we can

hear that music of course but the nerve

cells the neurons in your brain as well

as the nerve cells in your body

can become activated by music in a way

that the firing of those neurons

literally the frequency of those neural

impulses comes to match the frequency of

the sounds that you're hearing in your

outside environment in other words when

you listen to music not only is that

music coming into your body through your

sense organs your your hearing but your

body itself is an instrument playing

that music from within so for instance

if you listen to a piece of music that

has a lightness to it that evokes a

sense in you of the Turning of the

seasons from Winter to Spring and

something that's common in certain

classical music but other forms of music

as well

when you hear that music indeed it's

coming in through your ears but also the

firing of the neurons in your brain and

body responding to those particular

frequencies of sound is such that your

body itself is an instrument playing

that sense of the Turning of the seasons

from Winter to Spring within you which

is why your body starts to feel lifted

in some cases or it starts to feel a

lightness in some cases and an entire

set of emotions starts to be recruited

that at least for you resemble the

Turning of the seasons from Winter to

spring now that may sound rather complex

but we're going to break that process

down into its component parts but what I

essentially just said is that when you

listen to music not only are you hearing

that music but your body that is your

neurons and indeed your hormones as well

things like oxytocin and some other

hormones in your brain and body that

we'll discuss are contributing to a

symphony of emotion from within your

body and brain okay so while music can't

explain objects it can't describe them

it can explain in a very nuanced ways

emotions and it can evoke emotions

within us now if that's not amazing

enough music can not only describe and

evoke emotions it can also imply intent

think for instance about drumming that

you would hear off in the distance and

we're not talking about

and perhaps the Cadence of that drumming

changes such that as it's approaching it

gets more and more frequent

what is the intent being implied well we

know from numerous studies and you know

from numerous movies that you've seen

and heard that that sort of low

frequency drumming of increasing Cadence

as it approaches is implying the intent

of aggression or War

or at least is implying that something

serious is going to happen now contrast

that with a different frequency of sound

now

are far less clear in terms of what they

mean what their intent is but if we

contrast them with let's just call them

what they're typically called the war

drums or the drums that that convey a

what we create then is a juxtaposition

of two different emotional states in you

perhaps or maybe you don't respond to

those with any robust emotional shift

but we are conveying two separate or

distinct sets of intent

now of course spoken language can convey

intent I could say for instance you know

I'm going to help you how can I help you

today or I could say I'm gonna hurt you

right of course with spoken language you

could do that and you could change the

intonation of that language you change

the frequency so if I were to say I'm

going to hurt you it's very different

than if I say I'm gonna hurt you okay or

if I put it as a question I'm gonna hurt

you okay so with language of course

there's also the opportunity for a lot

of nuance depending on where the

inflections where the accents are on a

particular phrase even a particular word

but with music as you recall

when we convey a sense of intent we are

also conveying that sense of intent

through the body of The Listener not

just bringing it in through their ears

and so when we do that what we do is we

start to recruit a huge number of neural

circuits that are involved not just in

understanding or a sense of empathy for

an emotion but rather that can recruit

movement or what we call pre-motor

circuits in the body pre-motor circuits

are the neurons that start to fire

before a particular pattern of action is

generated and so when we hear music that

conveys emotion that evokes emotion and

especially when we hear music that

conveys a sense of intent from the

outside we too start to feel as if we

need to move or respond to that music in

a particular way now what I just

described to you is not something that's

learned in fact it is innate how do we

know that well there are some beautiful

studies that have explored how babies

respond to music indeed how babies

respond to specific types of music

specific frequencies of sound spacing

between particular notes and on and on

it's been demonstrated for instance that

babies as young as three months old

respond to music very differently than

they respond to just other forms of

sound scrambled in time now of course

babies that are three months old aren't

speaking so you could ask them does that

sound like music how does it make you

feel Etc they're not going to answer at

least not with any coherence because

they don't have spoken language yet but

despite their absence of language we

know that babies as young as three

months old respond to music because they

do so with rhythmic movements of their

bodily Limbs and actually their torso as

well now a little bit later we will

touch on this issue of what types of

music evoke movement of the Torso versus

movement of the limbs versus movement of

the Torso and limbs no I'm not going to

dance for you during this podcast

however there's a really interesting

story there that relates to how

primitive or evolved the motor neurons

the neurons that actually move the

musculature are and how primitive or

evolved the music that one listens to is

but just to give you a sense of where

that's headed

in this study where they examined the

responses of very young babies to music

what they found is that certain

frequencies of sound evoked movements in

those babies that were rhythmic where it

was mostly their torso moving back and

forth and maybe their head a little bit

whereas other patterns of sound

different frequencies in different Arrangements

Arrangements

evoked movement of their limbs more than

their torso and still other patterns of

sounds evoked movement of their torso

Limbs and head in other words babies

dancing and if you've ever been to a

wedding or a party or been out dancing

you will see people who include more

torso versus limb versus limb and torso

movement when they dance and yes of

course some of this relates to

Proficiency in dancing Comfort on the

Dance Floor

Etc but there are some Universal rules

out there about how certain frequencies

and patterns of sound AKA music

evokes different types of bodily

movements so starting from a very young

age prior to any instruction in terms of

how to dance

or what music is babies are dancing to

music and that highlights an important

point that we will return to again and

again throughout today's episode which

is that the systems of the brain that

respond specifically to movement not

just sound but specifically to musical

sounds are intimately tied to the neural

circuits of the body that generate

movement and this is especially

important to understand when we get into

our discussion about music and our sense

of motivation okay so the list of

incredible things that music can evoke

within us by way of how it activates our

nervous system and body is starting to

grow we've talked about how music can

convey emotion how music can evoke

emotion and how music can convey a sense

of intent as well now as how music can

generate action within us this is a

pretty spectacular list if you think

about it

in addition

music causes changes within our bodily

physiology that extends beyond the

nervous system although it has a

relationship to the nervous system

in particular there's been a lot of

studies that have explored how music

changes things like our blood pressure

or how fast our heart is beating our

so-called resting heart rate

and here we've made some important

discoveries in recent years and when I

say we I don't mean my laboratory I mean

Laboratories that focus on the

relationship between music and our

bodily physiology because we've long

known that music can change various

Health metrics there are some really

nice studies and I'll link to one or two

of the meta-analyzes of these studies in

the show note captions that have showed

that if people listen to anywhere from

10 to 30 minutes of Music per day and by

the way the selection of Music in these

studies ranged everything from Rock and

Roll to classical music to country music

typically these studies would ask

subjects what their favorite music is

and then they would have them listen to

that particular genre of music for

anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes per day

and if you look at the meta-analyzes of

those studies what you find is that

almost all of them see some sort of

significant effect that is some

statistically significant shift in the

bodily physiology of people that

deliberately listen to music for 10 to

30 minutes per day

not while doing anything else but just

listening to that music they find for

instance that their resting heart rate

is reduced if not during the period in

which you're listening to the music then

after the time in which they're

listening to the music they find that

their so-called heart rate variability

tends to increase for those of you that

aren't familiar with heart rate

variability having increased heart rate

variability is a good thing and that's

because heart rate variability reflects

the sort of push and pull or the balance

rather of the activation of a so-called

sympathetic nervous system which is the

one sometimes called the fight or flight

system although I don't really like that

nomenclature the sympathetic nervous

system by the way is not about emotional

sympathy it's what drives your heart

rate higher it tends to put us into

activated states where we favor movement

and motion and makes us alert whereas

the parasympathetic aspect of our

nervous system is the portion of our

autonomic nervous system sometimes

called the rest and digest system the

parasympathetic nervous system Drive

states of deeper relaxation of calm in

any event heart rate variability

reflects a periodic breaking a slowing

down of heart rate and breathing and

other aspects of our neural system

function that

Works alongside with sympathetic

activation think of sympathetic

activation as an accelerator

parasympathetic activation is a break

and when heart rate variability is

higher it reflects the fact that our

parasympathetic nervous system is

periodically engaging it's getting

activated and slowing our heart rate

slowing our breathing down music seems

to have the effect of activating that

parasympathetic aspect of our nervous

system and so we are pumping the break

every once in a while slowing down our

heart rate slowing down our breathing in

other words when people listen to music

for a dedicated period of time each day

of about 10 to 30 minutes some studies

looked at as much as 60 minutes but

typically 10 to 30 minutes what one

finds is that heart rate variability

increases not just during the period

when they're listening to the music this

is very important but also heart rate

variabilities increased Around the Clock

in those subjects even during sleep

making listening to 10 to 30 minutes of

your favorite music each day not just

what I would think to be a enjoyable

protocol if you could even call it a

protocol it's so enjoyable to listen to

your favorite music that it feels almost

inappropriate to call it a protocol

because protocol sounds kind of rigid

like you're imposing that on yourself

but if you need an excuse to listen to

your favorite music for 10 to 30 maybe

60 minutes per day and just attending to

that music not while doing anything else

which is what these studies had subjects

do well indeed that's been shown to

increase heart rate variability Around

the Clock which we know is beneficial

for your mental and physical health more

generally okay so there are dozens if

not hundreds of studies that have

explored how music impacts our

physiology and as I just mentioned it

seems that if we listen to music that we

like for 10 to 30 maybe 60 minutes a day

our physiology certain Health metrics

heart rate variability in particular

improve now in light of the positive

effects of listening to music on one's

Health there's a recent meta-analysis

that I found particularly interesting

the title of this meta-analysis is

effects of Music on the cardiovascular

system and it was published in Trends in

cardiovascular medicine now from the

title of this paper for effects of Music

on the cardiovascular system you might

think that it's just yet another

meta-analysis exploring how music

impacts heart rate variability and

things of that sort but what's

interesting about this study is that it

identifies that the way in which

listening to one's favorite music

positively impacts the cardiovascular

system and other aspects of our

physiology is very likely not through

direct changes on our heart rate simply

by listening to music but rather through

changes in our breathing and this is

true even if people were not singing

along with the music by the way now the

relationship between breathing and heart

rate is something that I've touched on

before but if you haven't heard me

discuss this I'm just going to briefly

tell you the relationship in two or

three sentences and then I'll explain

the mechanism also in about two to three

sentences so if you have a background in

biology or even if you don't this will

all be very simple and very clear

when you deliberately inhale

with a lot of vigor or you deliberately

make your inhale longer than you

naturally would so for instance if I

breathe in very vigorously through my nose

nose

something very specific happens to your

heart rate

it increases whereas when you

deliberately exhale

meaning when you exhale and deliberately

make that exhale longer or you

deliberately add Vigor to that exhale

or even a shorter deliberate more

vigorous exhale

you slow down your heart rate and that's

because of a phenomenon called

respiratory sinus arrhythmia which

because it includes the word arrhythmia

sounds like a bad thing but it's

actually a wonderful thing it has to do

with the relationship between a

particular muscle in your body called

the diaphragm which when you inhale our

lungs fill with air our diaphragm moves

down and our heart therefore has a

little bit more space it actually gets

bigger temporarily bigger but bigger and

when it does that whatever volume of

blood is in the Heart Is Now moving

through a larger space so it's the same

amount of blood moving through a larger

space and the nervous system registers

that as the blood moving more slowly

through that temporarily enlarged heart

and as a consequence there's a signal

sent through various Stations of the

nervous system to the heart to speed the

heart up in other words just as I said

before when we inhale our heart rate

speeds up

conversely when we exhale our lungs

empty out some air our diaphragm moves

up and as a consequence of that there's

less space for the heart and so our

heart temporarily becomes smaller and

when that happens the volume of blood

within that smaller heart moves more

quickly and that's detected by the

nervous system which then triggers a

neural signal from the parasympathetic

arm of the autonomic nervous system

which is just fancy nerd speak for a

neural signal is sent to your heart

every time you exhale to slow your heart

down so the well-established effects of

listening to your favorite music

increasing your heart rate variability

is not a direct interaction between the

sounds coming in through your ears and

changes in your heart rate while you're

listening to the music that's actually

what I would have thought happened but

this more recent meta-analysis pulls

apart the variables in these different

studies it really illustrates that when

we are listening to music We Are

subconsciously most of the times

subconsciously changing our patterns of

breathing we are inhaling in

anticipation of certain things happening

in the music we're exhaling when we feel

a relief of tension we get excited we

may get sad we may get happy we may even

just be listening to music that we don't

think is impacting our physiology at

such a core level but indeed it is music

is able to Route into our nervous system

at levels below our conscious awareness

and literally turn the various knobs if

you will of our cardiovascular system of

our breathing apparatus the diaphragm

the lungs it can evoke respiratory sinus

arrhythmia which again sounds like a

terrible thing but is actually the

reflection of a healthy nervous system

in heart and in doing so yes it

increases heart rate variability

something that is beneficial to all of

us but it's doing so by changing our

patterns of breathing so if you've ever

wondered why music can change how you

feel so robustly well it's doing that at

a deep foundational level of your

nervous system indeed at the levels of

your your nervous system that typically

are not in your conscious awareness

because I have to imagine that most of

you are probably not listening to music

and thinking oh here comes that one

chorus or here comes that one Melody and

this is where I always exhale or this is

where I always hold my breath this sort

of thing no most people are just

listening to music it's coming in

through their ears they're experiencing

some bodily Sensations maybe they're

moving their torso arms maybe arms and

torso maybe you're not moving at all no

dancing maybe just listening within your

head or maybe it's just dropped into the

background below your conscious

awareness at all and yet that music is

communicating emotion it's evoking

emotion it's communicating intent it's

activating those pre-motor circuits that

would have you move if it could and

we'll talk about dance a little bit

later but even if you're not dancing

even if you're not swaying the tiniest

bit your patterns of breathing are

changing and through respiratory sinus

arrhythmia your heart rate is changing

and through changes in your heart rate

your heart rate variability is

increasing so if ever you want wanted a

tooler protocol that was easy to use but

could positively impact your mental and

physical health well listening to your

favorite music for 10 to 30 maybe 60

minutes maybe more per day is that

protocol as many of you know I've been

taking ag-1 daily since 2012. so I'm

delighted that they're sponsoring the

podcast ag1 is a vitamin mineral

probiotic drink that's designed to meet

all of your foundational nutrition needs

now of course I try to get enough

servings of vitamins and minerals

through whole food sources that include

vegetables and fruits every day but

oftentimes I simply can't get enough

servings but with ag1 I'm sure to get

enough vitamins and minerals and the

probiotics that I need and it also

contains adaptogens to help buffer

stress simply put I always feel better

when I take ag1 I have more focus and

energy and I sleep better and it also

happens to taste great for all these

reasons whenever I'm asked if you could

take Just One supplement what would it

be I answer ag1 if you'd like to try ag1

go to drinkag1.com huberman to claim a

special offer they'll give you five free

travel packs plus a year supply of

vitamin D3 K2 again that's drinkag1.com

huberman so hopefully it's becoming

clear just how absolutely powerful music

is at evoking different physiological

responses within you that is within your

brain and body but there's an additional

one that I find particularly interesting

because it addresses and indeed answers

one of the most common questions that I

receive all the time which is how can I

get more motivated not how I Andrew can

get more motivated although of course I

ask myself that question from time to

time although admittedly most of the

time I'm wondering how I'm just going to

get everything I need to get done done but

but

I often get the question how can I feel

more motivated or what can I do to

sustain my motivation over time and you

know we hear a lot of different

strategies about how to do that we hear

about the quote unquote just do it

strategy the incredible slogan that Nike

created and that persists to this day

has become commonplace in culture and

indeed the just do it form of advice can

be a good one but for a lot of people

uh just hearing just do it or telling

themselves just do it is not something

that can evoke action in them uh other

people will listen to motivational

speeches they'll look at motivational

videos they'll read motivational books

um they may even hire coaches in other

words people invest a ton of time energy

and money into trying to be more

motivated and indeed a number of

episodes of The huberman Lab podcast

have focused on the relationship between

say motivation drive and the

neuromodulator dopamine we have several

episodes about that as well as a toolkit

all of which are available zero cost at

hubermanlab.com you can access those

easily by putting motivation into the

search function at hubermanlab.com all

of that will come up time stamped Etc

but perhaps surprisingly today's

conversation about music offers us a

particularly potent tool to increase

motivation and that's because one of the

fundamental properties of listening to

music is that it evokes activation of

these pre-motor and motor circuits

within our brain and body that is the

neural circuits whose specific job is to

mobilize our body from its current

position and state to a new position in state

state

so for those of you that listen to music

while you work out or prior to when you

work out you are definitely on to

something for those of you that don't

that's fine too what I'm going to

describe now are the specific sets of

neural circuits that listening to music

activates as I mentioned earlier

listening to music activates so many

circuits throughout the brain and body

that really one can take a step back

from the scientific literature on this

and say anytime someone has done a study

where human beings listen to music and

people record from a particular brain

area believe it or not even from the

olfactory system from the system and the

brain responsible for smell there seems

to be some significant shift in terms of

the neural firing there or the release

of neural chemicals

which on the one hand might lead you to

conclude that listening to music is just

sort of a non-specific generalized

activator of nervous system function

it's just kind of like turning all the

lights on but

that's not the case music in fact is

activating different neural circuits

differently in time and space to evoke a

whole set of specific reactions in your

brain and body but not the least of

which is the propensity for you to move

and this is something that you can

leverage and indeed I'll describe a

protocol by which you can leverage music

in order to greatly increase your state

of motivation okay so this is the

portion of today's episode where we're

going to discuss some specific neural

circuits but I want to assure you that

if you're a neurobiologist you can

understand this if you are not a

neurobiologist in fact if you took no

biology ever in your life I'm going to

make it clear and easy for you to

understand as I mentioned before when we

hear music it activates many many

circuits throughout the brain and body

when I say circuits I mean neurons nerve

cells that communicate with one another

sort of chains of reactions when I say

respond to one another what I mean is

when neurons are quote unquote activated

they release chemicals those chemicals

are called neurotransmitters things like

glutamate Gaba

they're also called neuromodulators

things like dopamine serotonin the names

don't really matter for sake of today's

discussion but what those things do is

they influence the likelihood that the

next neuron will be active or less

active Okay so neurons speak the

language if you will of electricity

because that's how they evoke release of

these chemicals and chemistry they vomit

out these chemicals those chemicals then

bind to little parking spots on the next

neuron called receptors and then the

next neuron gets activated electrically

and then to the next neuron and next

neuron and so on it's a chain of

electrochemical reactions okay so

there's your Neuroscience 101 lesson for today

when people listen to music there is

heightened activation of the so-called

frontal cortex the area of your brain

which is on the surface below your skull

but just behind your forehead more or

less and that area of your brain is

involved in a lot of different things

it's involved in understanding context

you know what sorts of behaviors and

thoughts and actions are appropriate for

a given environment by the way if any of

you have ever been in an environment

where everyone was really quiet and you

thought oh my gosh what's keeping me

from just blurting out my name right now

or saying something totally inappropriate

inappropriate

your frontal cortex is the one providing

the sh the so-called top-down inhibition

on that impulse to blurt something

inappropriate out and by the way your

thoughts about that impulse are

perfectly normal they actually reflect a

heightened sense of normalcy

um because it means that your brain is

thinking about how it's not going to do

that and so therefore you're not going

to do that likewise if you are ever at

the edge of a high bridge please stay on

the safe side of the railing but if you

think oh my goodness what's keeping me

from just jumping off the bridge right

now what's keeping you from doing that

is your frontal cortex it's suppressing

certain actions in a context-dependent

way in particular actions that are

dangerous to you socially physically

dangerous to others socially physically Etc

Etc

now the frontal cortex in order to do

that also has an incredible ability to

make predictions so this is the function

of the frontal cortex that I want to

focus on for the moment your frontal

cortex is great at doing the if this

then that type of analysis if I say this

everyone will be offended or if I say

this maybe they'll laugh or if I don't

say this I'll be safe if I do say that I

won't be safe this kind of thing

frontal cortex is activated when we

listen to music because within music

there are some regularities

sometimes these are described as motifs

or melodies or choruses again this is

the entire landscape of discussion that

we could have and we will have with an

expert guest about how the mathematics

of Music impacts the electrochemical

signaling within the brain and the

coding that is the mathematics of brain

function which leads us to predict that

certain things because they just happen

are likely to happen again or not happen

again but let's set all that aside for

the moment and just State the simple

fact which is that when you listen to

music your frontal cortex increases

inactivation because it is predicting

what you're going to hear next based on

what you're currently hearing and what

you heard before now I am from the

generation that we didn't have iPods

when I was a kid we did have CDs we did

have tapes but you had to fast forward

or rewind a cassette tape or you had to

skip on the CD in order to move about

the album in time

nowadays you can queue up different

songs in different order really easily

but if you are somebody who listens to

albums start to finish or if you're like

me and you grew up listening to albums

start to finish maybe occasionally

skipping a song but

you will be very familiar with this

phenomenon which is that right is a

given song ends if you're familiar with

that album you already anticipate the

start of the next song in your head and

that just speaks to the predictive

function that the frontal cortex plays

so if you have a mixtape with a bunch of

different songs sure you don't expect

one song of a given artist to lead into

the next but if you're somebody who's

listened to that mixtape a lot so you're

familiar with What song comes next or if

you're listening to a given album start

to finish and you're very familiar with

it well then you'll immediately resonate

with what I'm saying here which is that

your frontal cortex is always

anticipating what sound is likely to

come next and this is very important

because one of the key things about

music and its ability to evoke our sense

of surprise or Delight

through the release of a neuromodulator

called dopamine we'll get to this a bit

more later is because that prediction

Machinery is thinking oh I heard that

set of chords a moment ago I'm going to

hear it again and then when it changes

up your brain goes oh whoa hold on that

wasn't what I expected and it sometimes

does that with a sense of delight like

oh yes and sometimes it hears that and

it goes oh wait what's this I don't

really like this that much I like the

opener of that song but I don't really

like the rest I think of that as um you

know there's certain pastries muffins in

particular where I really like the top

it's got the little crumbs it's got the

berries and stuff and then you like get

down past the top and then you get to

the middle then you're like oh well this

thing's not that good okay there's

certain songs like that for me so I

always thought of those as muffin songs

because the top of the muffin is always

the best whereas a donut is great the

whole way through and now I'm going on a

tangent because I'm thinking about

muffins and donuts so I'm going to take

us back to music but the point is

relevant nonetheless which is that your

frontal cortex is making predictions and

when those predictions are broken

that's a sense of novelty and when that

novelty is something that you like okay

so it evokes a sense of yes I like that

well then dopamine is deployed and when

that novelty is something you don't like

typically there's a reduction in the

amount of dopamine released in a

separate set of brain circuits below

whatever level of dopamine happened to

be there prior your so-called Baseline

level of dopamine okay so when you

listen to music there's a strong

activation of the prediction Machinery

in your brain there's also activation of

the circuits in your brain that register

novelty what are those circuits these

are things like the ventral tegmental

area and the nucleus accumbens I've

talked about these before on the podcast

again you don't need to know those names

those are the names given to certain

brain areas that control the release of

dopamine in time according to whatever

you happen to be experiencing in that

moment okay so the mesolympic reward

pathway could perhaps better be called

the mesolimic reinforcement pathway so

for those of you out there shouting wait

the mesolimic pathway does a bunch of

other things it's not just dopamine I

agree it's all serotonin it's a bunch of

other things but for today's discussion

we're thinking about the mesolimic

pathway as deploying dopamine which it

does when we hear something novel

meaning not what we predicted and we

like what we hear and then there are a

bunch of other brain centers and

circuits that listening to music

activates I'll just list off a few again

this isn't intended to confuse anybody

or add a lot of useless nomenclature but

since I am a neuroscientist and this is

a science and science informed tools

podcast I'd be remiss if I didn't

mention that we get strong activation of

a brain structure you actually have two

of them one on each side of the brain

called the amygdala this is a brain area

that's part of a larger set of circuits

that's associated with arousal okay

meaning becoming more alert becoming

more aware of our surroundings and the

particular sensory stimuli that are

coming in at particular time such as the

notes of the music or a particular set

of lyrics and music also activates areas

of the brain such as the para

hippocampal formation the cortex and the

hippocampus itself brain areas that

encode and store memories and this is

something that I think everyone will be

familiar with when you hear certain

songs or even songs that sound like

certain songs or even songs that you

swear you've never heard before it can

evoke a sense of nostalgia of longing

for something of missing somebody of

sadness or of delight and happiness and

positive memories of somebody or

something indeed I think it's fair to

say that hearing particular pieces of

music particular songs more than any

other experience can activate a whole

library of memory and emotions within us

and that's because of its ability to

activate the para hippocampal regions of

the brain the cortex and the hippocampus

itself again several different brain

areas all which communicate with one

another and other areas of the brain in

order to encode our memories

our sense of self our sense of others

our sense of history with those people

and on and on now

rather than just make this a catalog of

different brain areas that music evokes

what I'm trying to do is spell out how

music activating these different brain

areas is creating different components

of what we are familiar with as our

experience of music so frontal cortex

prediction mesolimbic reward pathway

novelty amygdala a sense of emotion and arousal

arousal

para hippocampal cortex and cortex and

hippocampus our memories in particular

our emotional memories and our location

Memories associated with a particular

piece of music right haven't you ever

heard a song from let's say a summer

camp that you went to when you were a

kid and all of a sudden you're

remembering the smell of the grasses at

that summer camp you're remembering how

some of the kids were really great and

how some of the kids were really

obnoxious you're remembering some things

that you did remember your counselors I

mean there's just a whole landscape of

neural information there life

information stored in your head that

hearing a particular song that was sung

when you were what eight years old 10

years old I can't just flips the lid on

and it comes geysering out remarkable

now there are two other sets of brain

circuits that are activated by music

that deserve specific attention and

deserve that specific attention now in

the context of discussing motivation and

music's ability to motivate Us in

particular ways and those brain circuits

are the basal ganglia okay so this is a

set of circuits within the brain they're

associated with action initiation

so-called go circuits and withholding

action so-called no-go circuits but

basically the basal ganglia are involved

in regulating movement and

and

the cerebellum the cerebellum is

sometimes referred to as the mini brain

it looks like a little mini brain in the

bottom back of the human brain

and some species the cerebellum is much

larger relative to the rest of the brain

but in humans it's like this little

piece in the back that looks like a

little mini brain like you're carrying a

second brain back there that's why I

call it mini brain cerebellum it's

involved in a lot of things but one of

its primary functions is to encode

rhythmic timing and processing and along

with its outputs to some deeper brain

stem areas things like the vestibular

and cochlear nuclei we'll talk about

this the parabrachial nucleus again you

don't need to know these names it

meaning the cerebellum along with the

basal ganglia creates patterns of

activity in our brain that Cascade down

to particular circuits in our body

so these are so-called pre-motor

circuits and motor circuits that

generate the sense that we not only can

move but that we want to move and that

we want to move in particular ways so if

you internalize nothing from the last

five minutes or so in which I've been

describing how music impacts different

neural circuits in the brain please do

take away this important point which is

that when we listen to music we think of

that as an auditory experience but now

you know that it's also an emotional experience

experience and

and

and this is a very important and when we

listen to music it is programming a

specific set of motor actions that are

more likely to occur put differently

when we listen to music we are more

likely to move our body and not just

dance not just move our torso our limbs

or our Limbs and torso together in

concert with the music but rather move

our body from its current position to

another position and this is one of the

most important things to understand

about music music despite being an

auditory stimulus coming in through our

ears evokes the activation of neural

circuits in our brain that creates a

sort of inertia it creates a propensity

for Action across our entire body so now

that you understand that listening to

music activates lots of different brain

circuits of course the circuits that

respond to auditory stimuli so-called

primary auditory cortex is powerfully

activated by listening to music but also

circuits associated with novelty

anticipation we talked about circuits in

the brain associated with memory but

also circuits in the brain that are

associated with generating movement and

not just movement that is in sync with

or corresponds to the music that we're

listening to but all forms of movement

but when we listen to music that has a

relatively fast Cadence and we can

actually Define what that Cadence needs

to be and we'll do that in a moment

when we do that so-called pre-motor

circuitry the circuitry that's going to

initiate that kind of inertia where that

pressure for movement within the neural

circuits that actually evoke movement

are all activated so for those of you

that like to listen to music while you

exercise you're familiar with the fact

that listening to great songs with a

great beat with particular lyrics or

that associate you with a particular

time or place in your life can be very

motivating but there are data showing

that when people listen to music that's

faster than about 140 to 150 beats per

minute that it creates a heightened

state of motivation in the body to move

and the way that it does that is by way

of Shifting the balance between those

ghost circuits and no go circuits of the

basal ganglia there's some other ways

that it does it as well for instance

music can evoke the release of certain

neurochemicals called the catecholamines

these include dopamine but also

norepinephrine and epinephrine from

centers in the brain and body glands in

the body like the adrenal gland that

shift the body toward a predic position

of being more likely to move so if we

want to distill all this out to a simple

actionable takeaway

simply know this listening to music

relatively faster music predisposes you

to be more motivated to move and that is

independent this is what I find so cool

it's independent of whether or not

you're familiar with the song

independent of whether or not the lyrics

of the song are motivating lyrics if

they are that's just going to layer on

top of the faster Cadence which is going

to predispose you to move but what's

remarkable is that just listening to

that faster Cadence Music is creating a

neuronal resonance if you will a pattern

of neuronal firing within you that is

going to essentially take your and here

I'm using metaphor is going to put your

state of motivation from either back on

your heels to being flat-footed or let's

say you're mildly motivated so I'll call

that flat-footed to being forward Center

of mass so for any of you that are

suffering from lack of motivation in

particular to exercise but believe it or

not also to do cognitive work where

you're going to be still and you're

going to sit down and you're going to

read or learn or practice something

listening to music for 10 to 15 minutes

prior to doing that work prior to doing

that exercise is one of the best ways to

get motivated in order to engage in that

work or engage in that exercise that's

been demonstrated in the data very

conclusively using a variety of

different types of music and again there

are multiple mechanisms that converge to

create that heightened state of

motivation some of those mechanisms are

neurochemical like the release of the

so-called catecholamine dopamine

norepinephrine and epinephrine some of

them are strictly neural circuit based

so activation of premotor circuitry and

those are going to combine with neural

circuits that are going to narrow your

field of vision this is a good thing

whenever you want to be motivated

they're going to literally constrict

your field of vision to more of a tunnel

type of vision as opposed to more

panoramic vision and that I described it

as placing you into a forward Center of

mass I don't necessarily mean literally

a forward Center of mass

unless perhaps you're exercising like

running leaning slightly forward what

I'm talking about is using music as a

way to deliberately shift your state of

mind and body from one that is a

motivated not motivated to more

motivated and it's a very simple

protocol extracted from the

peer-reviewed literature you simply find

some faster music hopefully music that

you like it would be even better if it

was music that had lyrics that you find

motivating and listening to that for 10

to 15 minutes prior to engaging in

whatever that work may be physical or

cognitive on the topic of cognitive work

one of the most common questions I get

is what sorts of sounds or music should

I listen to in order to increase my

state of productivity motivation

concentration Etc on previous podcasts

related to focus and motivation I

touched on the use of so-called binaural

beats which are different frequencies of

Beats presented to one or the other ear

this is best accomplished with

headphones and there are a lot of

different frequencies of binaural beats

that you can get out there

um if you want to get detailed about

this binaural beats also involve the

differential between the frequency of

Beats between the two presented to the

two ears and then that difference then

is heard by higher order processing

centers in the brain in any event we

don't have to get too technical about it

we can simply say that yes there are

some decent peer-reviewed studies

demonstrating that when people listen to

so-called 40 Hertz it's a particular

frequency of sound 40 Hertz binaural

beats that it can enhance concentration

and focus however this is important

there are some recent studies that show

that binaural beats sometimes can impede

concentration and focus and thereby can

impede cognitive performance on various

tasks however the studies that show that

binaural beats can be detrimental to

performance on various cognitive tasks

did not use 40 Hertz binaural beats

specifically so we are still awaiting

more studies on binaural beats meanwhile

I'll just restate what I said before is

that there is some evidence that

listening to 40 Hertz binaural beats can

enhance concentration and focus there

are also data showing that other

frequencies of binaural beats might be

detrimental to concentration and

cognitive performance and previously

I've also discussed studies showing that

for instance if people listen to White

Noise in the background you could do

this on your computer or speakers in the

room or headphones or so-called Brown

noise which is essentially like white

noise all frequencies of sound or most

frequency of sound combined but with

particular frequencies of sounds that

are accentuated and others are notched

out as it's called so-called Brown noise

rather than understand all of this at a

technical level because I've covered

that before in previous podcasts suffice

to say if you go to YouTube and you just

put in White Noise background for

cognitive Focus or brown noise

background for cognitive Focus you can

just try those if you like during a

session in which you're trying to read

or learn or do mathematics or music or

any kind of cognitive work

if you don't like them if they don't

work for you then

um you know there's certainly no

obligation to use them likewise with 40

Hertz binaural beats and for binaural

beats you can also find those as zero

cost YouTube scripts there are a number

of zero cost apps that will allow you to

listen to binaural beats I've used the

app brainwave for some period of time

now to be honest I've never done this

strict control experiment on myself of

listening to the 40 Hertz binaural beats

or not listening to 40 Hertz binaural

beats doing the equivalent types of

tasks I can be fairly regimented with my

work and behavior but I haven't run a

detailed controlled study on myself

around this rather if I want to heighten

my level of focus or rule out

distractions what I will do is I will

listen to either white noise or brown

noise while I'll do work or I will

listen to 40 Hertz binaural beats while

I do certain types of work or sometimes

frankly I just work in silence other

times I will listen to classical music

in the background I'm a big fan of

listening to classical piano I

particularly like Glenn Gould the bach

very those are very pleasant to me but

and this is really important in

researching this episode about music in

the brain what I discovered was in the

controlled studies that have been

carried out as to whether or not people

perform better on cognitive tasks that

require a lot of focus especially

learning tasks that compared silence in

the background to purely instrumental

music in the background to music with

lyrics in the background to one's

favorite music with or without lyrics

the data are very clear it's very clear

that most people that means

statistically on average people perform

best on cognitive tasks or tasks that

require a lot of focus to perform

again these are mental tasks not

physical tasks when they are doing those

tasks in complete silence so that was

somewhat surprising to me

second best conditions are to do those

tasks in the presence of instrumental

music only and in that case there was a

lot of variation as to whether or not

people referred faster Cadence Music so

140 to 150 beats per minute or faster or

slower music 60 beats per minute or

slower I'll get back to those specific

numbers later because they represent

thresholds for inducing different types

of emotional states either happy or sad

but meanwhile

it's very clear when people work in

silence they perform better than when

they work with music instrumentals in

the background and they perform even

less well when they listen to music with

lyrics in the background we'll talk

about why that is the case in a moment

and then people perform especially

poorly relative to their performance in

silence or any of the other conditions I

mentioned when they listen to their

favorite music while doing cognitive

work and that to me was a bit surprising

especially since I spent a lot of my

University years studying while

listening to my favorite music in

different forms I'd listen to slower

music then faster music and go back and

forth and then sometimes turn it off

altogether and work in silence but the

center of mass of the literature around

this issue of whether or not to listen

to music while one studies or tries to

learn something the data are pretty

clear the data show that it's best to

study and learn either in silence or

with quiet instrumentals in the

background now I mentioned before that

previous studies compared the effects of

working in silence versus working with

40 Hertz binaural beats or white noise

or brown noise in the background and in

those studies it was found that the

white noise Brown noise and 40 Hertz

binaural beats background produced

better levels of focus I should say

heightened levels of focus and cognitive

performance and learning then working in silence

silence

but I've not yet seen a study that

compared 40 Hertz binaural beats

Brown Noise White Noise to music

directly and perhaps there's one out

there if there is please send it to me

I'd be very curious to learn what the

results of those are now that might seem

like a lot of information but the

takeaways from it are very clear and

it's always nice when things are clear right

right

it's clear that if we want to focus and

learn that working in silence or with

white noise or brown noise or 40 Hertz

binaural beats is going to be preferable

to working while listening to music but

if you're going to listen to music while

you work that is do cognitive work then

you're going to want to listen to music

that is purely instrumental and ideally

the music would be somewhat faster than

140 to 150 beats per minute now I do not

expect you to go and measure the

frequency of beats per minute in the

music that you listen to and of course

the beats per minute are going to change

right that's an average 140 to 150 beats

per minute

I don't expect you to get super

technical break down the music that

you're listening to that is not my goal

nor is that really what this podcast is

about I think occasionally people think

that you know the the goal of a science

and science-based protocols podcast is

to optimize everything in fact I not

such a fan of the word optimize because

optimal really depends on the situation

that you happen to be in the point here

is simply this that many people out

there including myself have been

listening to some of our favorite music

while working but it's very clear as to

why that degrades cognitive performance

we know for instance that when we read

we are creating a semantic narrative in

our own head and when we listen to music

with lyrics especially music with lyrics

that we recognize the semantic content

of the song the lyrics

competes with our comprehension of the

narrative within our head from the

material that we're supposed to be

learning so now it should be sort of

obvious why listening to your favorite

music that includes lyrics while trying

to learn something else is going to

impede learning it's because you've got

multiple scripts multiple dialogues

happening in your head and in fact this

is an opportunity for me to take a

slight tangent but a relevant one which

is to say a lot of times people will ask

me how I can retain a lot of information

I confess I never use a teleprompter for

podcasting I do have a usually a short

stack of notes you know anywhere from

one to you know six or seven pages of just

just

um bullet pointed notes that cue up

things that I want to talk about and

that I have researched in the literature

and then of course I'll refer to papers

from time to time but one of the things

that's been very useful for me which was

taught to me by the way by a professor

when I was in university to read and

retain information that I've read by

memory is that when I read I'm trying to

listen to the words being spoken in my

head typically my own voice although

sometimes in someone else's voice

doesn't really matter I find so when I'm

reading yes it's a process of visual

scanning but I'm also listening to the

words within my head as if they're being

spoken some of you may be familiar with

this because you do it others of you

perhaps might find this a bit more

foreign I'd be curious to know what your

process of reading and retaining that

information is whether or not it

includes an internal dialogue but nonetheless

nonetheless

it should be very straightforward now to

see why if you're listening to words that you're reading on a page maybe even

that you're reading on a page maybe even mumbling them you know a little bit

mumbling them you know a little bit moving your lips a little bit while you

moving your lips a little bit while you read which by the way if you heard our

read which by the way if you heard our episode on language and auditory

episode on language and auditory processing with Dr Eddie Chang who's

processing with Dr Eddie Chang who's chair of neurosurgery at UCSF he talked

chair of neurosurgery at UCSF he talked about the fact that when we read

about the fact that when we read any material that the brain is

any material that the brain is generating pre-motor activity you now

generating pre-motor activity you now know what pre-motor activity is

know what pre-motor activity is pre-motor activity down to the muscles

pre-motor activity down to the muscles of the throat larynx pharynx

of the throat larynx pharynx which would speak those words were those

which would speak those words were those signals to get above a certain level but

signals to get above a certain level but that when we read typically the signals

that when we read typically the signals that are getting sent through those

that are getting sent through those pre-motor circuits are just below the

pre-motor circuits are just below the threshold of what would have us actually

threshold of what would have us actually speak those words put simply when we

speak those words put simply when we read we are just shy of saying what we

read we are just shy of saying what we are reading and so when I say that when

are reading and so when I say that when I read I'm listening to the words in my

I read I'm listening to the words in my head that's what I'm referring to so

head that's what I'm referring to so we're starting to funnel in on some

we're starting to funnel in on some general principles of music and how it

general principles of music and how it impacts the brain and how that can be

impacts the brain and how that can be leveraged toward Better Learning and

leveraged toward Better Learning and better motivation both in the context of

better motivation both in the context of physical and cognitive Endeavors okay so

physical and cognitive Endeavors okay so if you want to get motivated listening

if you want to get motivated listening to music prior to doing something that

to music prior to doing something that you're trying to motivate to do

you're trying to motivate to do is a good idea that's what the data say

is a good idea that's what the data say if you're trying to learn something

if you're trying to learn something that's cognitive then requires reading

that's cognitive then requires reading focus and concentration silence 40 Hertz

focus and concentration silence 40 Hertz binaural beats white noise or brown

binaural beats white noise or brown noise is probably best and if you are

noise is probably best and if you are going to listen to music listening to

going to listen to music listening to music

music that includes instrumentals but not

that includes instrumentals but not lyrics would be best and listening to

lyrics would be best and listening to music that includes lyrics that you're

music that includes lyrics that you're very familiar with would be the worst

very familiar with would be the worst condition now with that said there are

condition now with that said there are nice studies and by the way I'm going to

nice studies and by the way I'm going to link to a number of reviews and primary

link to a number of reviews and primary studies in the show note captions that

studies in the show note captions that refer back to this point I'm about to

refer back to this point I'm about to tell you which is that listening to

tell you which is that listening to music while trying to do cognitive tasks

music while trying to do cognitive tasks can be detrimental toward learning that

can be detrimental toward learning that material

material turns out that if you listen to music in

turns out that if you listen to music in the breaks between trying to learn

the breaks between trying to learn certain material you can actually

certain material you can actually heighten your level of cognition and

heighten your level of cognition and focus and your ability to learn so I

focus and your ability to learn so I find this particularly cool it's not

find this particularly cool it's not that music is bad for focus and

that music is bad for focus and cognition and learning it's that

cognition and learning it's that listening to music especially music that

listening to music especially music that you're familiar with that includes

you're familiar with that includes lyrics at the same time as trying to

lyrics at the same time as trying to learn something else is not a good idea

learn something else is not a good idea but listening to music with lyrics

but listening to music with lyrics especially music with lyrics that you're

especially music with lyrics that you're familiar with that you find particularly

familiar with that you find particularly uplifting and motivating is a cognitive

uplifting and motivating is a cognitive and performance enhancer when you go

and performance enhancer when you go back to doing that work in silence or

back to doing that work in silence or perhaps while listening to White Noise

perhaps while listening to White Noise Brown noise or 40 Hertz binaural beats

Brown noise or 40 Hertz binaural beats so like so many things the answer is not

so like so many things the answer is not black and white it's not that silence is

black and white it's not that silence is better than music or that music is bad

better than music or that music is bad for learning it turns out that listening

for learning it turns out that listening to music even music with lyrics you're

to music even music with lyrics you're very familiar with can be highly

very familiar with can be highly beneficial for learning but that you

beneficial for learning but that you want to listen to that music in the

want to listen to that music in the breaks be between these bouts of

breaks be between these bouts of cognitive work now I've done previous

cognitive work now I've done previous podcasts that talk about how long about

podcasts that talk about how long about of cognitive work can or should be

of cognitive work can or should be typically 90 minutes is going to be the

typically 90 minutes is going to be the upper limit before you take a break some

upper limit before you take a break some people can't work for 90 minutes without

people can't work for 90 minutes without a break

a break by the way folks when I say without a

by the way folks when I say without a break I don't mean remaining in a deep

break I don't mean remaining in a deep trench of focus for 90 minutes nobody

trench of focus for 90 minutes nobody does that actually I suppose there are a

does that actually I suppose there are a few folks that with neurochemical

few folks that with neurochemical Assistance or just by way of training

Assistance or just by way of training can get themselves into a deep deep

can get themselves into a deep deep trench of focus for 90 minutes or more

trench of focus for 90 minutes or more but most people are going to focus on

but most people are going to focus on something and then have their attention

something and then have their attention flit out of focus and then they're going

flit out of focus and then they're going to have to draw their focus back to

to have to draw their focus back to whatever it is they're doing that's not

whatever it is they're doing that's not just typical that's absolutely normal

just typical that's absolutely normal and you shouldn't be concerned at all if

and you shouldn't be concerned at all if you try and focus for three minutes and

you try and focus for three minutes and find your attention jumping around two

find your attention jumping around two or three times during

or three times during that attempt but if you're somebody who

that attempt but if you're somebody who is going to do say a 90 minute or even

is going to do say a 90 minute or even 60 Minute or even 30 minute bout of work

60 Minute or even 30 minute bout of work and you are going to get up for a moment

and you are going to get up for a moment and use the restroom or you're going to

and use the restroom or you're going to take a break in between bouts of work so

take a break in between bouts of work so maybe you work for 30 minutes take 10

maybe you work for 30 minutes take 10 minutes or five minutes off or 90

minutes or five minutes off or 90 minutes take 30 minutes off listening to

minutes take 30 minutes off listening to music in those breaks

music in those breaks it seems can increase our ability to

it seems can increase our ability to focus and to learn new material once we

focus and to learn new material once we return to those bouts of cognitive Focus

return to those bouts of cognitive Focus now when it comes to physical exertion

now when it comes to physical exertion cardiovascular exercise resistance

cardiovascular exercise resistance training of any kind many people

training of any kind many people including myself like to listen to music

including myself like to listen to music while performing

while performing that physical exercise or that physical

that physical exercise or that physical exertion the data on whether or not

exertion the data on whether or not music improve physical performance is a

music improve physical performance is a bit mixed

bit mixed certainly you can find studies that show

certainly you can find studies that show that it improves physical output other

that it improves physical output other studies will say that it doesn't make a

studies will say that it doesn't make a difference other studies will say that

difference other studies will say that it reduces

it reduces physical output however this is a very

physical output however this is a very important however the type of physical

important however the type of physical exercise is not very well matched

exercise is not very well matched between those different studies so this

between those different studies so this is something that I believe is going to

is something that I believe is going to be highly individual in accordance with

be highly individual in accordance with the published data I mix it up there are

the published data I mix it up there are times when I will head out for a run or

times when I will head out for a run or I will do a resistance training session

I will do a resistance training session and I will listen to music usually an

and I will listen to music usually an album all the way through or a playlist

album all the way through or a playlist all the way through that's because I

all the way through that's because I don't want to be going onto my phone

don't want to be going onto my phone very often in fact these days I use an

very often in fact these days I use an older separate phone that doesn't have

older separate phone that doesn't have any text messaging or communication to

any text messaging or communication to the outside world but it has music

the outside world but it has music loaded into it

loaded into it or onto it that allows me to just listen

or onto it that allows me to just listen to music so that I I don't run the risk

to music so that I I don't run the risk of getting distracted texting and doing

of getting distracted texting and doing things like that I just want to focus on

things like that I just want to focus on my physical exercise I should say that

my physical exercise I should say that phone also has audio books podcasts

phone also has audio books podcasts things I've downloaded to it

things I've downloaded to it so it's a place where I can listen to

so it's a place where I can listen to things but not communicate with the

things but not communicate with the outside world at least while exercising

outside world at least while exercising some people do very well to listen to

some people do very well to listen to music literally in between and during

music literally in between and during their sets of resistance training

their sets of resistance training throughout their entire runs

throughout their entire runs it's going to be individual you have to

it's going to be individual you have to figure out what's best for you however

figure out what's best for you however one of the most interesting things about

one of the most interesting things about the scientific literature on this shows

the scientific literature on this shows that if people listen to music in

that if people listen to music in particular music that tends to be faster

particular music that tends to be faster more upbeat typically it's going to be

more upbeat typically it's going to be in these studies rock and roll music as

in these studies rock and roll music as opposed to classical although there are

opposed to classical although there are some studies that have explored

some studies that have explored classical and other forms of music as it

classical and other forms of music as it relates to exercise listening to that

relates to exercise listening to that music in between bouts of exertion so in

music in between bouts of exertion so in the rest between sets of resistance

the rest between sets of resistance training or periodically during say a

training or periodically during say a run

run or about a cycling

or about a cycling can indeed enhance performance in a way

can indeed enhance performance in a way that at least by my read of the data

that at least by my read of the data exceeds that which is observed when

exceeds that which is observed when people just listen to music throughout

people just listen to music throughout in other words if you find it useful to

in other words if you find it useful to listen to music before during and after

listen to music before during and after your workouts great be my guest however

your workouts great be my guest however what the data say is that switching up

what the data say is that switching up between silence and listening to music

between silence and listening to music and in this case it would be listening

and in this case it would be listening to music that you're very familiar with

to music that you're very familiar with and that can evoke a sense of motivation

and that can evoke a sense of motivation and desired action in you for whatever

and desired action in you for whatever reason the music the beat the memories

reason the music the beat the memories that it draws you to

that it draws you to Etc

Etc well then that's going to be useful so

well then that's going to be useful so there really isn't one protocol for how

there really isn't one protocol for how to get the most out of music for sake of

to get the most out of music for sake of physical exertion but if you're

physical exertion but if you're interested in playing with some of these

interested in playing with some of these variables as they've been examined

variables as they've been examined within the peer-reviewed literature I

within the peer-reviewed literature I find it interesting and indeed I found

find it interesting and indeed I found it useful to for instance do a workout

it useful to for instance do a workout where I only listen to music in between

where I only listen to music in between sets of resistance training or to listen

sets of resistance training or to listen to music prior to going out for a run

to music prior to going out for a run and then oftentimes when I do that the

and then oftentimes when I do that the song will or songs will be sort of on

song will or songs will be sort of on Loop in my head although I confess that

Loop in my head although I confess that a lot of times nowadays I listen to

a lot of times nowadays I listen to podcasts while I run or while I hike and

podcasts while I run or while I hike and when I'm in the gym and I'm doing

when I'm in the gym and I'm doing resistance training I like to listen to

resistance training I like to listen to music as opposed to content that

music as opposed to content that requires that I really focus very

requires that I really focus very heavily on that content such as a

heavily on that content such as a podcast such as a book I'd like to take

podcast such as a book I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our

a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor inside tracker inside tracker is

sponsor inside tracker inside tracker is a personalized nutrition platform that

a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to

analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and

help you better understand your body and help you meet your health goals I'm a

help you meet your health goals I'm a big believer in getting regular blood

big believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason that

work done for the simple reason that many of the facts factors that impact

many of the facts factors that impact your immediate and long-term Health can

your immediate and long-term Health can only be analyzed from a quality blood

only be analyzed from a quality blood test however with a lot of blood tests

test however with a lot of blood tests out there you get information back about

out there you get information back about blood lipids about hormones and so on

blood lipids about hormones and so on but you don't know what to do with that

but you don't know what to do with that information with inside tracker they

information with inside tracker they have a personalized platform that makes

have a personalized platform that makes it very easy to understand your data

it very easy to understand your data that is to understand what those lipids

that is to understand what those lipids what those hormone levels etc mean and

what those hormone levels etc mean and behavioral supplement nutrition and

behavioral supplement nutrition and other protocols to adjust those numbers

other protocols to adjust those numbers to bring them into the ranges that are

to bring them into the ranges that are ideal for your immediate and long-term

ideal for your immediate and long-term Health inside tracker's ultimate plan

Health inside tracker's ultimate plan now includes measures of both APO B and

now includes measures of both APO B and of insulin which are key indicators of

of insulin which are key indicators of cardiovascular health and energy

cardiovascular health and energy regulation if you'd like to try inside

regulation if you'd like to try inside tracker you can visit inside tracker.com

tracker you can visit inside tracker.com huberman to get 20 off any of inside

huberman to get 20 off any of inside tracker's plans again that's

tracker's plans again that's insidetracker.com huberman to get 20 off

insidetracker.com huberman to get 20 off now I'd like to talk about the use of

now I'd like to talk about the use of music to shift our mood and indeed to

music to shift our mood and indeed to get us out of states of anxiety this is

get us out of states of anxiety this is a really interesting scientific

a really interesting scientific literature with some very specific

literature with some very specific actionable takeaways that I think

actionable takeaways that I think everyone will find beneficial I

everyone will find beneficial I certainly did

certainly did however I want to point out that we

however I want to point out that we don't need a scientific study to

don't need a scientific study to illustrate for us the way that music can

illustrate for us the way that music can shift our mood and you already know why

shift our mood and you already know why it is that listening to a sad song can

it is that listening to a sad song can sometimes make us feel sad listening to

sometimes make us feel sad listening to happy music can make us feel happy it's

happy music can make us feel happy it's because when we listen to music there

because when we listen to music there are some fundamental components of that

are some fundamental components of that music literally the mathematical

music literally the mathematical structure of that music including the

structure of that music including the frequency of sounds the Cadence of those

frequency of sounds the Cadence of those sounds as well as the lyrics but even in

sounds as well as the lyrics but even in the absence of lyrics that are

the absence of lyrics that are activating brain circuits within us such

activating brain circuits within us such that the frequencies of sound that we're

that the frequencies of sound that we're hearing are evoking firing of neurons in

hearing are evoking firing of neurons in the brain of the same frequency in other

the brain of the same frequency in other words your brain becomes a bit of a

words your brain becomes a bit of a piano playing the same

piano playing the same song that you're hearing inside your

song that you're hearing inside your head now that's sort of a duh right you

head now that's sort of a duh right you hear music in your head even if you're

hear music in your head even if you're listening to it from outside in the room

listening to it from outside in the room but when you understand that neurons

but when you understand that neurons speak the language of electrochemical

speak the language of electrochemical communication what we're talking about

communication what we're talking about here is particular music evoking the

here is particular music evoking the release of neurochemicals in your brain

release of neurochemicals in your brain at a particular frequency so just think

at a particular frequency so just think about that for a second we know that

about that for a second we know that neurochemicals such as dopamine

neurochemicals such as dopamine serotonin some of the so-called

serotonin some of the so-called endogenous opioids right these aren't

endogenous opioids right these aren't opioids that people take this isn't

opioids that people take this isn't related to the opioid crisis we're

related to the opioid crisis we're talking about endogenous opioids that

talking about endogenous opioids that are released in response to music things

are released in response to music things like exercise different types of social

like exercise different types of social interactions those and other chemicals

interactions those and other chemicals are released according to the firing of

are released according to the firing of specific neurons and we know that when

specific neurons and we know that when you listen to music at particular

you listen to music at particular frequencies arranged in particular

frequencies arranged in particular motifs

motifs Etc that the neurons that release those

Etc that the neurons that release those neurochemicals are firing at those same

neurochemicals are firing at those same frequencies in other words that the

frequencies in other words that the sound is causing a

sound is causing a sound-dependent pharmacologic concert

sound-dependent pharmacologic concert within your brain so that fact should

within your brain so that fact should make it incredibly clear as to why

make it incredibly clear as to why certain music even in the absence of

certain music even in the absence of lyrics can evoke certain emotional

lyrics can evoke certain emotional states certain sound frequencies are

states certain sound frequencies are transformed into the neural language

transformed into the neural language within your brain that releases certain

within your brain that releases certain neurochemicals that create certain

neurochemicals that create certain emotional states of brain and body just

emotional states of brain and body just to drill in how incredible that really

to drill in how incredible that really is a little bit further

is a little bit further if you see a beautiful painting or the

if you see a beautiful painting or the picture or presence of somebody's face

picture or presence of somebody's face in real life that evokes a particularly

in real life that evokes a particularly strong positive or negative emotion

strong positive or negative emotion you can imagine that of course it

you can imagine that of course it creates the release of certain

creates the release of certain neurochemicals or perhaps in the case of

neurochemicals or perhaps in the case of a negative face suppresses the release

a negative face suppresses the release of certain neurochemicals but we can't

of certain neurochemicals but we can't say that a particular frequency of color

say that a particular frequency of color say Reds against oranges or the presence

say Reds against oranges or the presence of a rainbow evokes a sort of

of a rainbow evokes a sort of rainbow-like cascade of neurochemicals

rainbow-like cascade of neurochemicals whereas with sound that's exactly what's

whereas with sound that's exactly what's happening and this isn't to diminish the

happening and this isn't to diminish the value of vision in terms of its ability

value of vision in terms of its ability to evoke emotional states within us

to evoke emotional states within us after all I'm foremost a neuroscientist

after all I'm foremost a neuroscientist but under the umbrella of

but under the umbrella of neuroscientists I started off as and I

neuroscientists I started off as and I continue to be a vision neuroscientist

continue to be a vision neuroscientist studying the visual system and its

studying the visual system and its ability to evoke emotional states within

ability to evoke emotional states within us but I have to acknowledge that the

us but I have to acknowledge that the auditory system and in particular the

auditory system and in particular the circuits in the brain that respond to

circuits in the brain that respond to music have a remarkably potent ability

music have a remarkably potent ability to evoke these emotional states which is

to evoke these emotional states which is why when surveys have been done asking

why when surveys have been done asking people why they listen to music the

people why they listen to music the responses that have come back generally

responses that have come back generally resemble the following statistics

resemble the following statistics approximately 90 of people say they

approximately 90 of people say they listen to music to relax approximately

listen to music to relax approximately 82 percent of people self-report that

82 percent of people self-report that they listen to music in order to make

they listen to music in order to make themselves happy

themselves happy approximately 46.5 percent of people say

approximately 46.5 percent of people say that they listen to music in order to

that they listen to music in order to process particular states of emotion

process particular states of emotion we'll get back to what process means in

we'll get back to what process means in a moment but more often than not when

a moment but more often than not when these Studies have asked specific

these Studies have asked specific questions about what particular types of

questions about what particular types of emotions people are listening to in

emotions people are listening to in order to process their emotions better

order to process their emotions better it is the emotion of sadness

it is the emotion of sadness and 32.5 percent of people

and 32.5 percent of people report that they listen to music in

report that they listen to music in order to increase their sense of

order to increase their sense of concentration and we already talked

concentration and we already talked about the role of Music in concentration

about the role of Music in concentration or its ability in some cases to inhibit

or its ability in some cases to inhibit concentration a few minutes ago now you

concentration a few minutes ago now you might be asking yourself how can 90 of

might be asking yourself how can 90 of people listen to music for one thing and

people listen to music for one thing and 82 percent of people for another thing

82 percent of people for another thing and so on and so forth were well over

and so on and so forth were well over 100 of people ah well in this survey and

100 of people ah well in this survey and other surveys like it people have the

other surveys like it people have the option to give multiple reasons for

option to give multiple reasons for listening to music because of course

listening to music because of course most people have multiple reasons for

most people have multiple reasons for listening to music

listening to music now with that said if we are to examine

now with that said if we are to examine this one particular category nearly half

this one particular category nearly half of people who report listening to music

of people who report listening to music on a regular basis listen to music in

on a regular basis listen to music in order to process their emotions

order to process their emotions we can ask what does the scientific

we can ask what does the scientific literature tell us about how certain

literature tell us about how certain types of music evoke certain types of

types of music evoke certain types of emotions or help us process certain

emotions or help us process certain emotions and we'll get back to what we

emotions and we'll get back to what we mean by process in a moment but

mean by process in a moment but a number of Studies have been done on

a number of Studies have been done on this there's some meta-analyzes that

this there's some meta-analyzes that Converge on some general themes what I

Converge on some general themes what I refer to as the center of mass of data

refer to as the center of mass of data right when there are a lot of studies in

right when there are a lot of studies in a given area the outcomes of some of

a given area the outcomes of some of those studies conflict with one another

those studies conflict with one another generally in a good meta-analysis what

generally in a good meta-analysis what happens is different studies are

happens is different studies are considered more powerful or less

considered more powerful or less powerful than others depending on how

powerful than others depending on how many subjects were involved the

many subjects were involved the different control conditions or lack of

different control conditions or lack of control conditions and so on and so

control conditions and so on and so forth this is one of the great values of

forth this is one of the great values of meta-analyzes

meta-analyzes is that they don't treat all studies

is that they don't treat all studies equally they separate it out studies

equally they separate it out studies based on their level of rigor and

based on their level of rigor and thoroughness well what we can say with

thoroughness well what we can say with confidence is that

confidence is that music that makes us quote unquote happy

music that makes us quote unquote happy or tends to shift People's State from

or tends to shift People's State from less happy to happier regardless of how

less happy to happier regardless of how they enter the experiment tend to be

they enter the experiment tend to be faster music meaning music that on

faster music meaning music that on average contains

average contains 140 to 150 beats per minute or faster

140 to 150 beats per minute or faster okay and there's some other features to

okay and there's some other features to quote unquote happy music if you will

quote unquote happy music if you will that it tends to be in a major key that

that it tends to be in a major key that if there are lyrics to that music that

if there are lyrics to that music that the lyrics tend to report things that

the lyrics tend to report things that are happy or get this total nonsense in

are happy or get this total nonsense in fact when the type of lyrics in this

fact when the type of lyrics in this happy music's I guess singing about

happy music's I guess singing about um great events in life and positive

um great events in life and positive things falling in love being in love

things falling in love being in love positive memories birth of children

positive memories birth of children connection to friends Great Adventures

connection to friends Great Adventures those lyrics or I should say that music

those lyrics or I should say that music containing those lyrics was no more

containing those lyrics was no more effective in creating states of

effective in creating states of happiness than was music of equivalent

happiness than was music of equivalent Cadence so again music that was 140 to

Cadence so again music that was 140 to 150 beats per minute or faster on

150 beats per minute or faster on average

average well even if the lyrics were complete

well even if the lyrics were complete nonsense even if the vocalizations

nonsense even if the vocalizations weren't actual words

weren't actual words it still evoke the same increase in the

it still evoke the same increase in the level of happiness in the subjects than

level of happiness in the subjects than when compared to the music containing

when compared to the music containing coherent lyrics around happy events what

coherent lyrics around happy events what this means is that the Cadence of music

this means is that the Cadence of music is no doubt the critical variable when

is no doubt the critical variable when one is trying to shift one's mood from a

one is trying to shift one's mood from a state of whatever could be depressed or

state of whatever could be depressed or sad to non-depressed nonsad or neutral

sad to non-depressed nonsad or neutral to positive and so on and so forth

to positive and so on and so forth but what this also explains is one hit

but what this also explains is one hit wonders

wonders rarely if ever by the way are one hit

rarely if ever by the way are one hit wonders sad and depressing songs

wonders sad and depressing songs sometimes almost always these one-hit

sometimes almost always these one-hit wonders are songs that are very

wonders are songs that are very effective in shifting people's mood from

effective in shifting people's mood from not so happy to happier or we could just

not so happy to happier or we could just say happier regardless of where they

say happier regardless of where they started out before listening to the song

started out before listening to the song they feel better while and after

they feel better while and after listening to the song

listening to the song and indeed more often than not the

and indeed more often than not the lyrical content of those songs

lyrical content of those songs is not particularly meaningful it's not

is not particularly meaningful it's not addressing a particularly meaningful

addressing a particularly meaningful state or issue it's just what some

state or issue it's just what some people call a party song or something

people call a party song or something that's just uplifting not just to them

that's just uplifting not just to them to but to many other people which

to but to many other people which actually brings up an interesting and

actually brings up an interesting and future looking point which is that

future looking point which is that nowadays we are seeing the emergence of

nowadays we are seeing the emergence of AI Artificial Intelligence being used to

AI Artificial Intelligence being used to generate new songs by capturing these

generate new songs by capturing these well-established rules gleaned from

well-established rules gleaned from Neuroscience of how music impacts the

Neuroscience of how music impacts the brain such that in the future artificial

brain such that in the future artificial intelligence is going to be generating

intelligence is going to be generating hit songs for us as opposed to having

hit songs for us as opposed to having people generating hit songs I know this

people generating hit songs I know this evokes a state of concern and fear in

evokes a state of concern and fear in many people I think that um this is uh

many people I think that um this is uh fear that needs to be matched with

fear that needs to be matched with um I don't know perhaps a cautious

um I don't know perhaps a cautious optimism I mean who knows maybe there

optimism I mean who knows maybe there are patterns of music including lyrics

are patterns of music including lyrics that human beings in their current

that human beings in their current understanding of themselves and of Music

understanding of themselves and of Music have not yet been able to tap into and

have not yet been able to tap into and who knows maybe AI will be generating

who knows maybe AI will be generating the best music that we've ever heard or

the best music that we've ever heard or perhaps music that can shift our States

perhaps music that can shift our States from more depressed or sad to heightened

from more depressed or sad to heightened levels of happiness in ways that humans

levels of happiness in ways that humans have just not been able to accomplish so

have just not been able to accomplish so I think it's important to balance any

I think it's important to balance any pessimism about Ai and its ability to

pessimism about Ai and its ability to generate music based on these rules of

generate music based on these rules of how music impacts the brain with an

how music impacts the brain with an open-mindedness after all neuroscience

open-mindedness after all neuroscience neuroimaging and neural recordings

neuroimaging and neural recordings directly with electrodes in the brain

directly with electrodes in the brain while people are listening to music is

while people are listening to music is teaching us how the brain responds to

teaching us how the brain responds to that music and is giving us information

that music and is giving us information that indeed human beings but also

that indeed human beings but also computers can use in order to generate

computers can use in order to generate stimuli music that can shift our brain

stimuli music that can shift our brain into more positive States and if that's

into more positive States and if that's the case wouldn't that be wonderful

the case wouldn't that be wonderful another established feature of happy

another established feature of happy music is get this its ability to get

music is get this its ability to get people to relax the furrow of their brow

people to relax the furrow of their brow and need to raise their eyebrows and to

and need to raise their eyebrows and to be a bit wide-eyed and not just through

be a bit wide-eyed and not just through autonomic arousal but rather through

autonomic arousal but rather through activation of the muscles in the face

activation of the muscles in the face conversely we know that sad music and

conversely we know that sad music and here we can Define sad music this has

here we can Define sad music this has actually been done in the literature sad

actually been done in the literature sad music tends to be slower than average

music tends to be slower than average slower than 60 beats per minute or so

slower than 60 beats per minute or so again on average and this again is

again on average and this again is independent of the lyrics that might not

independent of the lyrics that might not even be present in the song

even be present in the song sad music tends to activate the

sad music tends to activate the corrugator muscles

corrugator muscles of the forehead which are the muscles

of the forehead which are the muscles that Furrow the brow and that lead to a

that Furrow the brow and that lead to a kind of serious look it's in an it's a

kind of serious look it's in an it's a folding in of the face as opposed to a

folding in of the face as opposed to a widening up of the eyes and a relaxation

widening up of the eyes and a relaxation of the brow now given where we are in

of the brow now given where we are in the course of this discussion that

the course of this discussion that shouldn't be surprising we already

shouldn't be surprising we already talked about how listening to particular

talked about how listening to particular sounds evokes the release of particular

sounds evokes the release of particular neurochemicals but in a more direct

neurochemicals but in a more direct fashion

fashion listening to particular sounds activate

listening to particular sounds activate certain pre-motor and motor circuits

certain pre-motor and motor circuits within the brain and body not just the

within the brain and body not just the desire to move one's torso limbs or both

desire to move one's torso limbs or both Bob one's head or move ahead side to

Bob one's head or move ahead side to side but also the micro structures of

side but also the micro structures of the face which because one of the main

the face which because one of the main roles of the face is to communicate

roles of the face is to communicate emotion

emotion is going to cause either a relaxation of

is going to cause either a relaxation of the brow and a lifting of the eyebrows

the brow and a lifting of the eyebrows or a furrowing or a activation of the

or a furrowing or a activation of the corrugator muscles of the eyebrow and if

corrugator muscles of the eyebrow and if that's not obvious and yet interesting

that's not obvious and yet interesting enough well get this

enough well get this there seems to be a direct relationship

there seems to be a direct relationship I'm chuckling because this still just

I'm chuckling because this still just blows my mind because it's a total duh

blows my mind because it's a total duh obvious when you hear it but it's still

obvious when you hear it but it's still just so cool that there's a direct

just so cool that there's a direct relationship of the frequency of the

relationship of the frequency of the sound that you hear either low pitched

sound that you hear either low pitched or high pitched and the Cadence of that

or high pitched and the Cadence of that sound and here I realize I'm not using

sound and here I realize I'm not using technical music theory language but

technical music theory language but whether or not the that particular tone

whether or not the that particular tone is played over and over close in time or

is played over and over close in time or more spaced out in time and facial

more spaced out in time and facial expressions and indeed

expressions and indeed when we listen to

when we listen to bass tones low frequency tones set apart

bass tones low frequency tones set apart from one another with some distance so

from one another with some distance so that they're not overlapping we get the

that they're not overlapping we get the all too familiar

all too familiar bass face so what I'm referring to here

bass face so what I'm referring to here is what neuroscientists would call a

is what neuroscientists would call a labeled line literally a circuit of

labeled line literally a circuit of neurons that goes from the periphery in

neurons that goes from the periphery in this case our ears into our brain

this case our ears into our brain through several different stations and

through several different stations and then

then Wicks out to impact all sorts of things

Wicks out to impact all sorts of things within US states of emotion states of

within US states of emotion states of motivation our propensity to move but

motivation our propensity to move but also a labeled line circuit coming from

also a labeled line circuit coming from hearing low frequency sounds played

hearing low frequency sounds played spaced apart from one another that

spaced apart from one another that evokes a particular facial expression

evokes a particular facial expression and again this takes us back to the

and again this takes us back to the earlier statement that I made which is

earlier statement that I made which is not an original statement frankly there

not an original statement frankly there are people within the field

are people within the field of auditory processing and understanding

of auditory processing and understanding how the brain processes music in fact

how the brain processes music in fact one of the world experts in this Dr Eric

one of the world experts in this Dr Eric Jarvis at the Rockefeller University was

Jarvis at the Rockefeller University was a guest on this podcast where we talked

a guest on this podcast where we talked about the relationship between music

about the relationship between music movement and singing and the fact that

movement and singing and the fact that music movement in particular dance and

music movement in particular dance and singing likely preceded the evolution of

singing likely preceded the evolution of modern spoken language

modern spoken language well Eric Jarvis and others have argued

well Eric Jarvis and others have argued quite convincingly that these circuits

quite convincingly that these circuits that I'm calling labeled lines to

that I'm calling labeled lines to particular facial expressions and states

particular facial expressions and states of emotion are the most fundamental

of emotion are the most fundamental components of communication and the ways

components of communication and the ways that humans have communicated about

that humans have communicated about their emotional state and literally

their emotional state and literally induced that same emotional state in

induced that same emotional state in other members of our species dating back

other members of our species dating back tens of thousands if not more years one

tens of thousands if not more years one of the fun things about researching this

of the fun things about researching this episode on music in the brain is that

episode on music in the brain is that there are a lot of quality studies

there are a lot of quality studies exploring how music impacts the brain

exploring how music impacts the brain neuroimaging neural recording data from

neuroimaging neural recording data from excellent Laboratories as well as a lot

excellent Laboratories as well as a lot of studies in fact a surprising number

of studies in fact a surprising number of studies exploring how particular

of studies exploring how particular types of music impacts mood States and

types of music impacts mood States and fortunately that allowed me to glean

fortunately that allowed me to glean some very specific recommendations as to

some very specific recommendations as to the minimum amounts of say happy music

the minimum amounts of say happy music that you need to listen to in order to

that you need to listen to in order to shift your mood into a happier State and

shift your mood into a happier State and indeed the numbers exist in the

indeed the numbers exist in the literature and it has been shown that

literature and it has been shown that the threshold for significantly shifting

the threshold for significantly shifting one's mood into a happier state by

one's mood into a happier state by listening to the sorts of Music we

listening to the sorts of Music we talked about before that faster Cadence

talked about before that faster Cadence Music even with nonsense lyrics although

Music even with nonsense lyrics although it could include other lyrics instead is

it could include other lyrics instead is nine minutes not ten not eight but nine

nine minutes not ten not eight but nine and I'm sort of joking when I say not

and I'm sort of joking when I say not ten not eight but nine because of course

ten not eight but nine because of course you could listen to music for 10 minutes

you could listen to music for 10 minutes or 15 minutes or longer in fact earlier

or 15 minutes or longer in fact earlier we talked about the benefits of doing

we talked about the benefits of doing that but

that but when one examines the various studies

when one examines the various studies that looked at how long subjects need to

that looked at how long subjects need to listen to music in order to shift their

listen to music in order to shift their mood into a happier State the threshold

mood into a happier State the threshold seems to be nine minutes so if you want

seems to be nine minutes so if you want to feel happier than you currently feel

to feel happier than you currently feel it seems that listening to happy music

it seems that listening to happy music for nine minutes or more is going to be

for nine minutes or more is going to be the effective approach okay so nine

the effective approach okay so nine minutes or more to shift one state to

minutes or more to shift one state to happier what about to process somber or

happier what about to process somber or sad feelings feelings of loss

sad feelings feelings of loss well this raises an even bigger question

well this raises an even bigger question and it's a question that I also get very

and it's a question that I also get very often so you're noticing I get a lot of

often so you're noticing I get a lot of questions often in any event

questions often in any event one of the common questions that I get

one of the common questions that I get is when we are feeling sad

is when we are feeling sad or experiencing a loss you know grieving

or experiencing a loss you know grieving that the loss of a relationship by you

that the loss of a relationship by you know by death or decision or by somebody

know by death or decision or by somebody moving away or the loss of a pet Etc

moving away or the loss of a pet Etc is it better to go into that state in

is it better to go into that state in other words to quote unquote feel one's

other words to quote unquote feel one's feelings or to counter those feelings

feelings or to counter those feelings now historically that's been a very

now historically that's been a very difficult question for me to answer

difficult question for me to answer because who am I to say whether or not

because who am I to say whether or not you should feel your feelings or whether

you should feel your feelings or whether or not feeling those feelings will take

or not feeling those feelings will take you down a trench of feeling much worse

you down a trench of feeling much worse or much better in fact there's an

or much better in fact there's an emerging literature exactly about that

emerging literature exactly about that issue that is whether or not the

issue that is whether or not the catharsis model is really vascotharsis

catharsis model is really vascotharsis being the expression and feeling of

being the expression and feeling of one's emotions as a way to extrude or

one's emotions as a way to extrude or get rid of those emotions or whether or

get rid of those emotions or whether or not that simply drives us further down

not that simply drives us further down the trench of those emotions that's

the trench of those emotions that's really something that we should address

really something that we should address in a separate podcast episode and I will

in a separate podcast episode and I will have experts from the fields of

have experts from the fields of Psychiatry and psychology to help us

Psychiatry and psychology to help us address that question directly but

address that question directly but since we're talking about music in the

since we're talking about music in the brain and the fact that music has a

brain and the fact that music has a tremendous capacity to evoke emotional

tremendous capacity to evoke emotional States including sad States

States including sad States what has been shown in the peer-reviewed

what has been shown in the peer-reviewed literature is that when people who are

literature is that when people who are feeling sad for whatever reason

feeling sad for whatever reason loss of relationship death who knows

loss of relationship death who knows doesn't really matter why they're

doesn't really matter why they're feeling sad after all

feeling sad after all it's that they're feeling sad listening

it's that they're feeling sad listening to 13 minutes or more of sad music

to 13 minutes or more of sad music that music can contain lyrics they are

that music can contain lyrics they are familiar with or no lyrics regardless of

familiar with or no lyrics regardless of whether or not it contains lyrics it's

whether or not it contains lyrics it's going to be on average 50 or 60 beats

going to be on average 50 or 60 beats per minute or less we established that

per minute or less we established that already

already listening to that for 13 minutes or more

listening to that for 13 minutes or more has been shown to be effective in

has been shown to be effective in allowing people to quote unquote process

allowing people to quote unquote process their somber feelings and to some extent

their somber feelings and to some extent to move past their feelings of sadness

to move past their feelings of sadness so

so those studies support the idea that when

those studies support the idea that when feeling sad feeling one's feelings and

feeling sad feeling one's feelings and perhaps even amplifying those feelings

perhaps even amplifying those feelings of Sadness by listening to sad music for

of Sadness by listening to sad music for 13 minutes or more can help people

13 minutes or more can help people process those sad feelings and while

process those sad feelings and while that point might seem overly

that point might seem overly reductionist I actually think it's a

reductionist I actually think it's a real value I'm certainly familiar with

real value I'm certainly familiar with feelings of loss feelings of grief and

feelings of loss feelings of grief and I've often struggled with this question

I've often struggled with this question of you know gosh do I try and just push

of you know gosh do I try and just push it aside or do I deal with those

it aside or do I deal with those feelings

feelings again this is something that you really

again this is something that you really need to determine for yourself but what

need to determine for yourself but what these studies show pretty conclusively

these studies show pretty conclusively is that when we're feeling sad matching

is that when we're feeling sad matching that sadness or amplifying that Sadness

that sadness or amplifying that Sadness by listening to sad music for 13 minutes

by listening to sad music for 13 minutes or more can help us move through that

or more can help us move through that state of sadness and one could argue

state of sadness and one could argue this is more or less the use of

this is more or less the use of catharsis of amplifying emotional

catharsis of amplifying emotional expression or feeling

expression or feeling in order to try and move that feeling

in order to try and move that feeling out is a classic idea of originating in

out is a classic idea of originating in Freudian psychology but probably before

Freudian psychology but probably before then as well but in any event I think

then as well but in any event I think these data support the idea that even

these data support the idea that even when feeling sad perhaps especially when

when feeling sad perhaps especially when feeling sad

feeling sad amplifying or matching those feelings

amplifying or matching those feelings through the use of sad music for 13

through the use of sad music for 13 minutes or more

minutes or more again you don't need to set a timer for

again you don't need to set a timer for 13 minutes but giving yourself a period

13 minutes but giving yourself a period of time to just listen to that music is

of time to just listen to that music is one way that can help you move through

one way that can help you move through that state of sadness and then be able

that state of sadness and then be able to lean back into other areas of life so

to lean back into other areas of life so we've talked about the role of Music in

we've talked about the role of Music in evoking or shifting states of happiness

evoking or shifting states of happiness and sadness

and sadness there are also interesting data that

there are also interesting data that support the use of music for shifting

support the use of music for shifting one out of a state of heightened anxiety

one out of a state of heightened anxiety and I find this especially interesting

and I find this especially interesting because my laboratory for a long time

because my laboratory for a long time has worked on behavioral interventions

has worked on behavioral interventions to reduce anxiety things like the

to reduce anxiety things like the physiological Psy which if you're not

physiological Psy which if you're not familiar with you can put physiological

familiar with you can put physiological PSI in my last name into YouTube and

PSI in my last name into YouTube and there's a demonstration of that it's a

there's a demonstration of that it's a breathing technique of two inhales

breathing technique of two inhales through the nose and a long exhale

through the nose and a long exhale through the mouth the lungs empty that

through the mouth the lungs empty that at this point in time we understand to

at this point in time we understand to be the fastest and most effective way to

be the fastest and most effective way to reduce one's levels of anxiety in real

reduce one's levels of anxiety in real time so it's two inhales through the

time so it's two inhales through the nose long to lungs empty exhale through

nose long to lungs empty exhale through the mouth

the mouth that's the physiological PSI

that's the physiological PSI earlier we talked about the fact that

earlier we talked about the fact that one of the main ways in which listening

one of the main ways in which listening to music shifts heart rate and increases

to music shifts heart rate and increases heart rate variability and thereby

heart rate variability and thereby positively shifts a number of different

positively shifts a number of different Health metrics is through shifts in

Health metrics is through shifts in breathing so I justify that brief

breathing so I justify that brief vignette about the physiological PSI as

vignette about the physiological PSI as within the general context of what we're

within the general context of what we're talking about today

talking about today in any event

in any event there are data that have explored

there are data that have explored whether or not specific musical stimuli

whether or not specific musical stimuli can be used to significantly reduce

can be used to significantly reduce anxiety in particular one published out

anxiety in particular one published out of the University of Pennsylvania and

of the University of Pennsylvania and I'll provide a link to the study in the

I'll provide a link to the study in the show note captions which shows that

show note captions which shows that people that listen to a particular song

people that listen to a particular song that I'll describe in a moment

that I'll describe in a moment experience up to 65 percent reductions

experience up to 65 percent reductions in their anxiety and that's a

in their anxiety and that's a significant reduction in anxiety and I

significant reduction in anxiety and I should point out that

should point out that 65 reduction in anxiety in this case was

65 reduction in anxiety in this case was accomplished with just three minutes of

accomplished with just three minutes of listening to this one particular song

listening to this one particular song and get this that particular song was as

and get this that particular song was as effective in reducing anxiety as one of

effective in reducing anxiety as one of the most commonly prescribed

the most commonly prescribed benzodiazepines so what is this magical

benzodiazepines so what is this magical anxiety reducing song the title of the

anxiety reducing song the title of the song is weightless by Marconi Union

song is weightless by Marconi Union I hadn't heard of the song prior to

I hadn't heard of the song prior to researching this episode I did indeed

researching this episode I did indeed look up the song on YouTube and listen

look up the song on YouTube and listen to the song I will provide a link to the

to the song I will provide a link to the song in the show note captions I confess

song in the show note captions I confess that it is a very relaxing song I also

that it is a very relaxing song I also confessed that I was not experiencing

confessed that I was not experiencing anxiety when I listened to the song but

anxiety when I listened to the song but it was successful in reducing my level

it was successful in reducing my level of overall autonomic arousal I found

of overall autonomic arousal I found myself more relaxed Etc now of course

myself more relaxed Etc now of course what I'm describing in terms of my own

what I'm describing in terms of my own experience is not a peer-reviewed study

experience is not a peer-reviewed study it's what I would call anik data meaning

it's what I would call anik data meaning I'm just describing my experience but

I'm just describing my experience but again there are peer-reviewed studies

again there are peer-reviewed studies exploring how this particular song

exploring how this particular song shifts one's autonomic State and I think

shifts one's autonomic State and I think this three minutes of listening to this

this three minutes of listening to this one song should at least be Tried by

one song should at least be Tried by anyone that's trying to reduce their

anyone that's trying to reduce their anxiety Because unless you're listening

anxiety Because unless you're listening to the song in some way that I'm not

to the song in some way that I'm not aware of like excessively loud or

aware of like excessively loud or something of that sort I can't imagine

something of that sort I can't imagine how listening to the song would be

how listening to the song would be detrimental in any way and if you are

detrimental in any way and if you are anything like the subjects in the study

anything like the subjects in the study that they explored it could very well be

that they explored it could very well be beneficial and help you reduce your

beneficial and help you reduce your anxiety it's also something that you

anxiety it's also something that you could keep queued up in your phone or on

could keep queued up in your phone or on any device such that if you think you

any device such that if you think you may experience anxiety you just put your

may experience anxiety you just put your headphones in and listen to it you might

headphones in and listen to it you might be wondering whether or not Marconi

be wondering whether or not Marconi Union's weightless is only three minutes

Union's weightless is only three minutes long well I don't know the answer to

long well I don't know the answer to that because when you go on YouTube what

that because when you go on YouTube what you'll see is that clearly a number of

you'll see is that clearly a number of people are benefiting from listening to

people are benefiting from listening to the song to reduce their anxiety or at

the song to reduce their anxiety or at least that a number of people have

least that a number of people have listened to this song Because if you put

listened to this song Because if you put Marconi Union weightless into the search

Marconi Union weightless into the search function on YouTube what you'll quickly

function on YouTube what you'll quickly discover is that the top video has get

discover is that the top video has get this 47 million views and it's 10 hours

this 47 million views and it's 10 hours long now across today's episode it's

long now across today's episode it's been in the back of my mind that some of

been in the back of my mind that some of you out there perhaps are trained

you out there perhaps are trained musicians that you grew up playing an

musicians that you grew up playing an instrument perhaps sang in choir or at

instrument perhaps sang in choir or at school perhaps you played multiple

school perhaps you played multiple instruments perhaps you even know music

instruments perhaps you even know music theory whereas others such as myself

theory whereas others such as myself were encouraged to play an instrument

were encouraged to play an instrument when we were younger but then abandoned

when we were younger but then abandoned that instrument in fact I'll just tell

that instrument in fact I'll just tell you a brief story when I was a kid every

you a brief story when I was a kid every kid in school was required to pick an

kid in school was required to pick an instrument my parents for whatever

instrument my parents for whatever reason clearly they didn't ask me what I

reason clearly they didn't ask me what I want to do they asked me to play the

want to do they asked me to play the violin in school and I got the violin

violin in school and I got the violin started playing the violin I took the

started playing the violin I took the Suzuki method lessons this is where you

Suzuki method lessons this is where you don't learn to read music directly you

don't learn to read music directly you there's a number assignment to the

there's a number assignment to the different notes and that's initially how

different notes and that's initially how you learn I was also supposed to listen

you learn I was also supposed to listen to the songs while I slept this idea

to the songs while I slept this idea that some of the music and musical

that some of the music and musical learning could be encoded during sleep

learning could be encoded during sleep an interesting topic because there's

an interesting topic because there's actually some emerging evidence for that

actually some emerging evidence for that now but at the time as far as I know

now but at the time as far as I know there were no peer-reviewed studies but

there were no peer-reviewed studies but nonetheless it was thought that this

nonetheless it was thought that this works and perhaps it does well I can

works and perhaps it does well I can tell you one thing for sure it did not

tell you one thing for sure it did not work for me because I have one photo and

work for me because I have one photo and truly just one from a concert that I

truly just one from a concert that I played I must have been about eight or

played I must have been about eight or nine years old and within this photo

nine years old and within this photo what you'll notice is there's a gallery

what you'll notice is there's a gallery of children all with violins all of

of children all with violins all of whom's bows are up

whom's bows are up and my bow is down that in addition to

and my bow is down that in addition to the fact that my fly was open in the

the fact that my fly was open in the picture and the fact that every time I

picture and the fact that every time I played the violin either by practice or

played the violin either by practice or with the teacher present when we would

with the teacher present when we would go to these once a week

go to these once a week sessions with a individual teacher

sessions with a individual teacher people would cringe animals would cringe

people would cringe animals would cringe literally dogs would howl such that my

literally dogs would howl such that my parents

parents did not encourage me to continue playing

did not encourage me to continue playing in fact they and many others encouraged

in fact they and many others encouraged me to quit playing so I quit playing I

me to quit playing so I quit playing I confess I don't know how to play any

confess I don't know how to play any instrument I've attempted a few other

instrument I've attempted a few other instruments in my lifetime yes I believe

instruments in my lifetime yes I believe in neuroplasticity it is a Hallmark

in neuroplasticity it is a Hallmark feature of our brain our brain can learn

feature of our brain our brain can learn things even as adults but the point I've

things even as adults but the point I've tried to make here is that I am not of

tried to make here is that I am not of the category of kids that played an

the category of kids that played an instrument

instrument and understands music theory or how to

and understands music theory or how to read music I simply don't and I realize

read music I simply don't and I realize that those of you that are listening to

that those of you that are listening to this or watching this out there are

this or watching this out there are probably in a mixed category of

probably in a mixed category of proficiency all the way down to what I

proficiency all the way down to what I would consider my own relationship to

would consider my own relationship to music which is deficiency although I

music which is deficiency although I greatly enjoy listening to music and I

greatly enjoy listening to music and I do have a pretty good ability to

do have a pretty good ability to memorize lyrics

memorize lyrics in any event

in any event the reason I raise this is that there

the reason I raise this is that there are now dozens if not hundreds of

are now dozens if not hundreds of quality peer-reviewed studies using a

quality peer-reviewed studies using a variety of technical approaches that

variety of technical approaches that show that when children especially

show that when children especially children younger than eight

children younger than eight learn to play an instrument and even

learn to play an instrument and even better learn to play multiple

better learn to play multiple instruments

instruments regardless of whether or not they learn

regardless of whether or not they learn to read music that it leads to greatly

to read music that it leads to greatly enhanced connectivity within their brain

enhanced connectivity within their brain that persists into adulthood and that it

that persists into adulthood and that it facilitates other forms of

facilitates other forms of neuroplasticity and learning which is

neuroplasticity and learning which is basically to say that my brain very

basically to say that my brain very likely does not include these enhanced

likely does not include these enhanced circuits which circuits am I referring

circuits which circuits am I referring to well there are a number of different

to well there are a number of different circuits in the brain that have been

circuits in the brain that have been shown to expand when children learn how

shown to expand when children learn how to play an instrument as a child eight

to play an instrument as a child eight or younger and again eight isn't a

or younger and again eight isn't a strict cut off and I always have to

strict cut off and I always have to highlight this forgive the tangent but

highlight this forgive the tangent but when we say eight or younger I don't

when we say eight or younger I don't want people with nine-year-old children

want people with nine-year-old children or a 10 year old kid or even 16 year old

or a 10 year old kid or even 16 year old kid listening or even adult listening to

kid listening or even adult listening to think oh you know the window is shut for

think oh you know the window is shut for me because when one designs a study you

me because when one designs a study you have to have some thresholds who you

have to have some thresholds who you include and who you don't include and

include and who you don't include and some sometimes that leads to these kind

some sometimes that leads to these kind of artificial perceptions about where

of artificial perceptions about where the cutoffs are but in any event it's

the cutoffs are but in any event it's very clear that if you did learn an

very clear that if you did learn an instrument when you were young or

instrument when you were young or ideally even multiple instruments and

ideally even multiple instruments and even better would be to learn multiple

even better would be to learn multiple instruments and how to sing along with

instruments and how to sing along with instrumentals especially in an

instrumentals especially in an improvised manner

improvised manner well your brain has expanded

well your brain has expanded connectivity on average relative to

connectivity on average relative to children that did not have that

children that did not have that experience now the good news is that

experience now the good news is that learning how to play an instrument or

learning how to play an instrument or even thankfully for me

even thankfully for me listening to novel forms of music music

listening to novel forms of music music that you don't typically listen to for

that you don't typically listen to for 30 to 60 minutes per day and it doesn't

30 to 60 minutes per day and it doesn't have to be every day in fact it can even

have to be every day in fact it can even be just three days a week for 30 to 60

be just three days a week for 30 to 60 Minutes has been shown to expand brain

Minutes has been shown to expand brain connectivity in ways that of course

connectivity in ways that of course lends itself to better musical

lends itself to better musical comprehension and even performance but

comprehension and even performance but learning how to play a musical

learning how to play a musical instrument at any age as well as singing

instrument at any age as well as singing and singing especially with others in a

and singing especially with others in a group has been shown to enhance learning

group has been shown to enhance learning and the acquisition of new skills

and the acquisition of new skills separate from musical learning and

separate from musical learning and singing in other words it seems that

singing in other words it seems that learning how to play an instrument and

learning how to play an instrument and singing are a gateway to neuroplasticity

singing are a gateway to neuroplasticity and this is again supported by

and this is again supported by neuroimaging data some of the more

neuroimaging data some of the more striking of those data are that you know

striking of those data are that you know children that learn how to play one to

children that learn how to play one to three instruments when they were a kid

three instruments when they were a kid or that sang in a choir or a group or

or that sang in a choir or a group or that we're taught to sing solo for that

that we're taught to sing solo for that matter show up to 30 percent greater

matter show up to 30 percent greater connectivity within this particular

connectivity within this particular their brain Network that links the two

their brain Network that links the two hemispheres of the brain now as soon as

hemispheres of the brain now as soon as I say two hemispheres of the brain it

I say two hemispheres of the brain it starts drawing up a lot of ideas in

starts drawing up a lot of ideas in people's heads mainly derived from pop

people's heads mainly derived from pop psychology that you know there are

psychology that you know there are left-brained people and right brain

left-brained people and right brain people

people I've touched on this before but I want

I've touched on this before but I want to make this abundantly clear again now

to make this abundantly clear again now most of what you've heard about

most of what you've heard about so-called left-brained People Are

so-called left-brained People Are right-brained People is complete and

right-brained People is complete and total nonsense it's myth there are some

total nonsense it's myth there are some functions in the brain that are

functions in the brain that are lateralized to the left or the right

lateralized to the left or the right hemisphere in particular porosity they

hemisphere in particular porosity they start lilting and falling of speech and

start lilting and falling of speech and in singing is highly lateralized in the

in singing is highly lateralized in the brain other aspects of language can be

brain other aspects of language can be lateralized in the brain but really if

lateralized in the brain but really if you hear that certain people are more

you hear that certain people are more emotional or certain people are more

emotional or certain people are more logical based on right brain left brain

logical based on right brain left brain stuff that stuff is completely false

stuff that stuff is completely false it's complete garbage in fact it's not

it's complete garbage in fact it's not based in any real solid data so when I

based in any real solid data so when I say that learning an instrument or

say that learning an instrument or learning how to sing young or even as an

learning how to sing young or even as an adult is beneficial for increasing the

adult is beneficial for increasing the connectivity between the two sides of

connectivity between the two sides of the brain what that increased

the brain what that increased connectivity between the two sides of

connectivity between the two sides of the brain which is by the way mediated

the brain which is by the way mediated through a structure called the corpus

through a structure called the corpus callosum

callosum is not about enhancing one's emotional

is not about enhancing one's emotional capacity or logical capacity it's really

capacity or logical capacity it's really about increasing the capacity of all

about increasing the capacity of all brain circuits or at least the brain

brain circuits or at least the brain circuits that are connected up directly

circuits that are connected up directly with the corpus callosum which includes

with the corpus callosum which includes many brain circuits for things like

many brain circuits for things like cognition language learning speech

cognition language learning speech mathematics a lot of people don't

mathematics a lot of people don't realize this but a lot of musicians are

realize this but a lot of musicians are also especially Adept at mathematics and

also especially Adept at mathematics and for you musicians you're probably

for you musicians you're probably nodding of course right because the

nodding of course right because the music is grounded in theory that has

music is grounded in theory that has basis in math and in physics something

basis in math and in physics something that we will address in a future episode

that we will address in a future episode about harmonics Etc

about harmonics Etc when children or adults learn how to

when children or adults learn how to play a musical instrument or several or

play a musical instrument or several or how to sing and play musical instruments

how to sing and play musical instruments that increase connectivity in the corpus

that increase connectivity in the corpus callosum is essentially providing

callosum is essentially providing multiple highways of option for learning

multiple highways of option for learning all sorts of things so it's something

all sorts of things so it's something that I highly encourage so much so that

that I highly encourage so much so that I intend to finally finally learn how to

I intend to finally finally learn how to play an instrument I've got a particular

play an instrument I've got a particular instrument in mind that I've wanted to

instrument in mind that I've wanted to learn how to play for a very long time

learn how to play for a very long time but based on my prior experience with

but based on my prior experience with trying to learn an instrument and

trying to learn an instrument and because I like to consider myself a

because I like to consider myself a considerate person I intend to do this

considerate person I intend to do this more or less in isolation from people

more or less in isolation from people and indeed from animals as well and for

and indeed from animals as well and for those of you that don't have the time or

those of you that don't have the time or energy or desire to learn new forms of

energy or desire to learn new forms of Music you'll be perhaps delighted to

Music you'll be perhaps delighted to know that just listening to novel forms

know that just listening to novel forms of music and in particular when you

of music and in particular when you listen to novel forms of music and you

listen to novel forms of music and you pay attention to that music not just

pay attention to that music not just letting it play in the background that

letting it play in the background that too has been demonstrated to expand the

too has been demonstrated to expand the brain's capacity for neuroplasticity its

brain's capacity for neuroplasticity its ability to modify itself and make it

ability to modify itself and make it better at learning other sorts of things

better at learning other sorts of things both cognitive and physical so I highly

both cognitive and physical so I highly encourage you to listen to the music you

encourage you to listen to the music you love I certainly love to listen to the

love I certainly love to listen to the music that I Delight in and have for so

music that I Delight in and have for so many years but there's also strong

many years but there's also strong scientific support to encourage

scientific support to encourage listening to new forms of music that

listening to new forms of music that hopefully you will like but nonetheless

hopefully you will like but nonetheless the mere foraging for and listening to

the mere foraging for and listening to novel forms of Music itself seems to

novel forms of Music itself seems to activate brain circuitry in a way that

activate brain circuitry in a way that allows for Better Learning and

allows for Better Learning and comprehension of all sorts of things so

comprehension of all sorts of things so today we've been talking about music in

today we've been talking about music in the brain and I confess this is an

the brain and I confess this is an enormous topic so much so that I had to

enormous topic so much so that I had to discard with entire sets of data and

discard with entire sets of data and discussion around for instance the

discussion around for instance the mathematical structure of music and how

mathematical structure of music and how that relates to the mathematical

that relates to the mathematical structure of firing of neurons we

structure of firing of neurons we touched on this a little bit however in

touched on this a little bit however in the context of certain frequencies of

the context of certain frequencies of sounds that we hear creating certain

sounds that we hear creating certain frequencies of neuronal firing and

frequencies of neuronal firing and activation in the brain I mean just

activation in the brain I mean just think about that how amazing that is

think about that how amazing that is it's literally like the brain playing

it's literally like the brain playing your neurons like a piano this is not

your neurons like a piano this is not what happens when you smell a particular

what happens when you smell a particular odor or taste a particular taste or see

odor or taste a particular taste or see a particular face or visual stimulus

a particular face or visual stimulus incredible things happen within those

incredible things happen within those senses as well but there is something oh

senses as well but there is something oh so fundamental and incredible about

so fundamental and incredible about music and its ability to tap into our

music and its ability to tap into our neural circuitry and our neural

neural circuitry and our neural chemistry in ways that shift our

chemistry in ways that shift our emotional states and our motivational

emotional states and our motivational States so we talked about ways that

States so we talked about ways that music can be leveraged to shift our

music can be leveraged to shift our emotional and motivational States again

emotional and motivational States again not as a way to reduce music to its

not as a way to reduce music to its reductionist parts but rather to help us

reductionist parts but rather to help us gain understanding into how the brain

gain understanding into how the brain responds to music and how we can

responds to music and how we can leverage music of all kinds with and

leverage music of all kinds with and without lyrics how we can balance the

without lyrics how we can balance the contrast between music and silence to

contrast between music and silence to increase motivation and so on and so on

increase motivation and so on and so on for those of you that are interested in

for those of you that are interested in the more formal structure of music and

the more formal structure of music and how it relates to brain function and

how it relates to brain function and vice versa as well as for those of you

vice versa as well as for those of you that are interested in singing and

that are interested in singing and songwriting and more along the lines of

songwriting and more along the lines of lyrical content and how singing in

lyrical content and how singing in groups and how improvisation of singing

groups and how improvisation of singing and musical playing can impact brain

and musical playing can impact brain function and plasticity I promise you

function and plasticity I promise you there's going to be both an expert guest

there's going to be both an expert guest coming on the podcast to discuss that as

coming on the podcast to discuss that as well as a solo episode on those topics

well as a solo episode on those topics again the topic of music and the Brain

again the topic of music and the Brain being far too vast to cover in just one

being far too vast to cover in just one conversation with that said I hope that

conversation with that said I hope that today's discussion allowed for you to

today's discussion allowed for you to think about music differently hopefully

think about music differently hopefully it will lead you to listen to music a

it will lead you to listen to music a bit differently perhaps even leverage

bit differently perhaps even leverage music for different purposes in your

music for different purposes in your life and above all to think about music

life and above all to think about music and to enjoy music either listening to

and to enjoy music either listening to it or playing it or both because as you

it or playing it or both because as you now know music isn't just able to

now know music isn't just able to activate your brain but rather your

activate your brain but rather your brain contains vast amounts of real

brain contains vast amounts of real estate that are literally there to

estate that are literally there to listen to music if you're learning from

listen to music if you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast please

and or enjoying this podcast please subscribe to our YouTube channel that's

subscribe to our YouTube channel that's a terrific zero cost way to support us

a terrific zero cost way to support us in addition please subscribe to the

in addition please subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and apple and on

podcast on both Spotify and apple and on both Spotify and apple you can leave us

both Spotify and apple you can leave us up to a five star review

up to a five star review please also check out the sponsors

please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and

mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode that's the

throughout today's episode that's the best way to support this podcast if you

best way to support this podcast if you have questions for me or comments about

have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests that you'd like me

the podcast or guests that you'd like me to consider hosting on the huberman Lab

to consider hosting on the huberman Lab podcast please put those in the comments

podcast please put those in the comments section on YouTube I do read all the

section on YouTube I do read all the comments not on today's episode but on

comments not on today's episode but on many previous episodes of The huberman

many previous episodes of The huberman Lab podcast we've discussed supplements

Lab podcast we've discussed supplements while supplements aren't necessary for

while supplements aren't necessary for everybody many people derive tremendous

everybody many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like

benefit from them for things like improving sleep for hormone support and

improving sleep for hormone support and for Focus the huberman Lab podcast has

for Focus the huberman Lab podcast has partnered with momentous supplements

partnered with momentous supplements because momentous supplements are the

because momentous supplements are the very highest quality they also ship

very highest quality they also ship internationally and they tend to focus

internationally and they tend to focus on single ingredient formulations which

on single ingredient formulations which makes it easy to develop the most

makes it easy to develop the most biologically effective and

biologically effective and cost-effective supplement regimen for

cost-effective supplement regimen for you if you'd like to see the supplements

you if you'd like to see the supplements discussed on the huberman Lab podcast

discussed on the huberman Lab podcast you can go to live momentous spelled ous

you can go to live momentous spelled ous so it's livemomentis.com huberman if

so it's livemomentis.com huberman if you're not already following me on

you're not already following me on social media please do so I am

social media please do so I am hubermanlab on all social media

hubermanlab on all social media platforms so that's Instagram Twitter

platforms so that's Instagram Twitter LinkedIn threads and Facebook and on all

LinkedIn threads and Facebook and on all those platforms I cover science and

those platforms I cover science and science related tools some of which

science related tools some of which overlaps with the content of the

overlaps with the content of the huberman Lab podcast but much of which

huberman Lab podcast but much of which is distinct from the content on the

is distinct from the content on the huberman Lab podcast so again it's

huberman Lab podcast so again it's huberman lab on all social media

huberman lab on all social media platforms and if you haven't already

platforms and if you haven't already subscribed to our newsletter we have a

subscribed to our newsletter we have a zero cost monthly newsletter it's called

zero cost monthly newsletter it's called the neural network newsletter that

the neural network newsletter that provides podcast summaries as well as

provides podcast summaries as well as tool kits such as a toolkit for Sleep

tool kits such as a toolkit for Sleep toolkit for Focus toolkit for

toolkit for Focus toolkit for neuroplasticity toolkit for Fitness

neuroplasticity toolkit for Fitness deliberate cold exposure heat exposure

deliberate cold exposure heat exposure and on and on again all available zero

and on and on again all available zero cost you simply go to hubermanlab.com go

cost you simply go to hubermanlab.com go to the menu scroll down to newsletter

to the menu scroll down to newsletter tap on newsletter and then give us your

tap on newsletter and then give us your email and I want to emphasize we do not

email and I want to emphasize we do not share your email with anybody thank you

share your email with anybody thank you once again for joining me for today's

once again for joining me for today's discussion about music and your brain

discussion about music and your brain and last but certainly not least thank

and last but certainly not least thank you for your interest in science

you for your interest in science [Music]

Click on any text or timestamp to jump to that moment in the video

Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds

One-Click Copy125+ LanguagesSearch ContentJump to Timestamps

Paste YouTube URL

Enter any YouTube video link to get the full transcript

Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds

Get Our Chrome Extension

Get transcripts instantly without leaving YouTube. Install our Chrome extension for one-click access to any video's transcript directly on the watch page.

Add to Chrome — Free

Works with YouTube, Coursera, Udemy and more educational platforms

Get Instant Transcripts: Just Edit the Domain in Your Address Bar!

YouTube

←

→

↻

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

YoutubeToText

←

→

↻

https://youtubetotext.net/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

YouTube Transcript:How to Use Music to Boost Motivation, Mood & Improve Learning | Huberman Lab Podcast

Video Transcript

Paste YouTube URL

Transcript Extraction Form

Get Our Chrome Extension

Get Instant Transcripts: Just Edit the Domain in Your Address Bar!

YouTube Transcript:
How to Use Music to Boost Motivation, Mood & Improve Learning | Huberman Lab Podcast