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Alex Hormozi: The #1 Myth That’s Keeping You Broke (And What to Do About It)
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You can build something very big in
about 5 to seven years. And the problem
is most people spend that same 5 to
seven years reliving the same 30 days
over and over again. You have to stay in
that painful place. Staying in the pain
is what gives you the catalyst to learn
how to get out of pain.
Please welcome a serial entrepreneur,
best-selling author, and the mind behind
a 100 million business portfolio, Alex Hormosi.
Hormosi.
What's that number one misconception you
hear when people are thinking about
building a business and you go that's
the issue?
I think they conflate sequence. A lot of
people who are wanting to make money
believe that the making money comes from
investing. Investing is the last thing
you do, not the first thing you do.
How do you get over the block of I don't
want to work for free?
I actually think it's entitlement.
You're not working for free. You're
learning and then you're earning.
Should you do what you love for money
and love what you do?
I think this is big myth number two.
People fail not because there's some
magical list nobody has. They fail
because it's an obvious list nobody does.
does.
It's the obvious list. If you were
trying to get in shape, you know you
should eat less and you should move
more. You already know what you're
supposed to do. The question is why you
aren't doing it.
What do you think is the number one
emotion that people don't know how to
control that leads to failure? Fear.
Fear.
The number one health and wellness podcast.
podcast.
J Shetty.
J Shetty. the one, the only J Shetty.
Alexi, I've been looking forward to this
interview for a long, long time. My
friends are fans. I'm a fan. And I know
we were in touch like maybe even a
couple of years ago now it's been,
but I'm so happy to be at the holy grail
of acquisition.com. I saw the big logo
when I walked in. Congratulations on
everything you've been up to and I'm so
glad to introduce you to my audience,
some of who I'm sure follow you already
and love your work. And then I'm hoping
you get a ton of new fans and a ton of
new people being impacted through this
as well. So, thank you so much for doing this.
this.
Well, thank you so much for having me
and I've been I'd say I mirror it right
back. We've been I've been looking
forward to talking because I think
there's there's so much good stuff that
I think is going to happen. So, I'm very excited.
excited.
I love it. Alex, I want to start with
asking you something that I've been
thinking about a lot when I'm talking to
people today and it's when I think about
my community, my audience who's
listening right now.
What are you going to unblock for them?
When you if someone read all your books,
listen to your podcast, listen to
today's podcast, what are they going to
unblock that's been tripping them up,
keeping them behind or holding them
back? I think they would have clarity on
what actions were required to get what
they wanted and then at that point they
would only have to just think like why
am I not doing it which is a separate
conversation but there's a lot of
confusion I would say around like what
are the things that are required in
order to create a business in order to
create an income I would say that I'm an
objectivist and so I just look at what
are the things that are observable and I
think a lot of time people spend inside
their heads trying to think about
manifesting and energy and all of this
stuff when it's like we got to let
people know about the stuff we have. We
got to have something to sell and we got
to make sure that what we're charging
costs less than than it costs to deliver
it. And we try and do that as many times
as we can. And so each of those pieces
obviously has frameworks behind them.
But they're all tied to one thing which
is just what actions are required. And
that's been the single pervasive frame
in my life that has made navigating
reality significantly easier for me cuz
I was very confused coming up and I was
like, I don't know what any of this is.
and I read all these self-help books and
and I felt more confused after the 10th
book than I did on the first book and
and then it was just like okay what do I
have to do and then that is kind of what
has started this journey for me.
What's that number one misconception you
hear when people are thinking about
building a business making money
changing their financial situation?
What's the number one thing you hear and
you go that's the issue? I think the
conflate sequence is probably the first
and biggest thing because a lot of
people who are wanting to make money
believe that the making money comes from
investing and investing is the last
thing you do, not the first thing you
do. And so one of the things is they'll
look at people who are at the end of
their careers and say, "Okay, well these
guys are making all these, you know,
these bets, right? I if I if I just
bought this memecoin or I just bought
Bitcoin in 2013, I'd be super rich." But
it actually doesn't take into
consideration what a decision-making
process like that would create, which is
if you took a swing at every type of
Bitcoin, because you can't just say, "I
would only pick this one." You'd have to
say, "I'd pick every single super long
shot." It's like we probably would have
lost them 99 of the other bets.
And so it's like we have to take it in
aggregate. And so I would say making
active income cool again uh rather than
the passive bet and really just gambling
um is probably the the first thing that
that people mess up is that they're they
somehow think that working or active
income is not scalable when in reality
the people who have the most money
typically have tremendously high incomes
and it's because of the excess of cash
flow from that income are they able now
to make big swings with riskier bets
that sometimes pay off and sometimes
don't. But you can't take those swings
unless you have more cash flows coming
in from the things you do every day.
You know what? No one's ever said it
that well, like from everyone I've
spoken to. And I'm so glad you pointed
it out because I completely agree. I
have so many friends who when they saw
the rise of crypto or whatever it was,
jumped in with a large sum of their life savings
savings
because they heard of a friend of a
friend of a friend who'd made a killing.
Put it all in there. A week later it
dropped by like 10k. They pulled it all
out. The next week it went up double
like and and it was just a mess. And so
many of them lost like 10 20 30 40,000 dollars.
dollars.
And it's all because you're thinking
that's the way to get there
and it's cooler and it's smarter and
like you're a genius
if you And you're right. Actually,
everyone I know that's made amazing
money on any of that already had tons of
money and it was play money for them.
Yeah. So it just changed into this. So
what's happening there? Why is it that
we've been led down this thought process
and how do we get out of it?
I mean I think it's fundamentally the
something for nothing fallacy of like
how can I get rich quick? How can I do
it really easily? And um basically the
more it feels like luck is usually where
you should have your first red flag. If
you I mean I have a belief that if you
control all the variables then you can
predict the outcome. Now, we don't
always control all the variables in any
given situation, but the greater number
of variables we control, the greater
influence we have over the outcome. And
if you're getting into something like
this and you're like, I actually don't
even know what the variables are. Then
it's like, you are you are 100%
gambling. And so, this is your life
savings. Would you put it on black at
the casino? Probably not. This is really
not that different than that. Except at
the casino, you have no nods at least
right here. It's like you have no idea.
And typically by the time especially
Genpop uh kind of retail investors find
out about something it is the peak and
it is too late. And so you have to be at
the very beginning of these if you want
to be speculative, which I
wholeheartedly am not a big fan of
speculative investments in general
because it's basically the greater fool
theory, which is what they call it in
the investment world, which is just like
we just keep selling to the greater and
greater fool until sometime somebody is
the greatest fool of all and then it
drops, right? And so I prefer to think
about instead of thinking of investments
and active income, I think of just money
per unit of time. And that kind of takes
out this binary or what I would consider
a false binary of active and passive and
think well and I I I feel like I can
prove this pretty clearly which is we
live in time and we collect money in
that period of time. And so
fundamentally all we want to do if we
want to increase our income is just
think what are we earning per unit and
this is where again bad piece of advice
is like never sell your time. It's like
okay well if someone gave you a billion
dollars for an hour would you not sell
that? I would, right? And so, it's a
question of how much is your time worth?
And then that creates a much more
actionable uh decision-making framework
of is this worth it or not? And to lad
up to the active versus passive, it's
how active is it versus how passive is
it? And it's my belief that nothing is
passive because there's always going to
be a certain amount of if you're doing
it right. Let's say if you you made one
passive investment, if you're doing it
the right way, you probably should have
looked at a hundred deals and all of
that took time. And all of that takes
diligence. And then after doing all this
analysis, then you decide to make this
investment. And so to say that it's
passive, it's like it doesn't take into
account all of the research that goes
into ahead of time, which is absolutely
still work. Now after the investment,
sure, but there's still time that you're
trading by first breaking that idea of
like if for in order for me to get rich,
it must be something that I don't trade
my time for, I think is like big myth
number one. So if we assume that, then
we say, okay, I have to trade my time
for money because money comes in over
time. what are the things that I can
trade my time for that will get me more
than I'm currently getting which is a
much more solvable problem that also is
significantly less risky and so
especially when you're trading time we
have some and so we don't we really just
risk the time to be like I would I never
want to I don't want to sell my I'm not
a I'm not a slave it's like calm down
we're it's a voluntary exchange and if
it's and here's the thing is if you
don't think the price is worth it then
don't make the trade and that's one of
the beauties of capitalism is it's two
parties both saying they'll be better
off and so fundamentally I would say the
focus of the the content the stuff that
I put out is how can I equip people with
the skills so that when they trade that
time they get more for it and then
continue to trade up and up and up for
the rest of their careers.
Yeah. I mean that is that's actually
such counterintuitive advice to what I
feel has been spreading on the internet
for the last two decades
of every conversations around passive
income. I feel like every one of my
friends is addicted to figuring out how
they can make passive income and those
are the same people that are not making
any more money than they already were.
But it's this addiction and obsession
with if I figure this out then I won't
have I can quit my day job and whatever
it may be.
Yeah. And I I've had influence so the my
neighbor is um is he owns uh Panda
Express and so last time I checked they
did $3.7 billion in revenue and they
have about a 27% net margin. So he took
home $935 million in personal income not
investment income. And so people see his
investment portfolio which is impressive
as you can imagine. has been doing it
for 45 years and so that starts to add
up, right?
But the thing is he can only take these
kind of bigger swings or bigger bets
because he has this very regular cash
that he spent 45 years building.
And I would say that what's interesting
is that you can build something very big
in about 5 to seven years. And the
problem is that I think most people
spend that same 5 to seven years
reliving the same 30 days over and over
again jumping from thing to thing to
thing and never actually getting the
root set so that they can pay down their
ignorance tax of not knowing enough.
Basically there's I would say there's
five stages that most newer
entrepreneurs or people who want to
pursue income go through. So the first
is um what I call uninformed optimism.
So your friend tells you about this
thing they made 10 grand on and you're
like that sounds amazing. you're
uninformed, but you're optimistic,
right? And so then you get into it and
then all of a sudden you get to uh
informed pessimism. So you get in and
then you put your money in and then it
drops and you're like, "Wow, this
sucks." And then, you know, people are
like, "Buy the dip." And so you're like,
"Okay, I'm going to I'm going to put
more money in." And so then you get to
kind of stage three, which is the value
of despair, where you're like, "Oh my
god, I've lost so much money. I have no
idea what's what's going on right now."
And at stage three, there's kind of a
fork. And so either people then go,
"Well, my other friend told me about
this other thing." and they jump back to
step one and go to uninformed optimism
and then they just they funnel through
that loop over and over again. Now to
break through that that dip you have to
basically get to stage four which is um
informed optimism. So now you understand
the rules of the game, you understand
the variables at play and it's not as
good as you thought it was but you at
least get it. And so from there then you
can get to achievement which is the
fifth step. But the thing is is that you
have to stay in that third painful place
because staying in the pain is what
gives you the catalyst to learn how to
get out of pain. And so rather than
trying to pull your parachute, it's like
I have to trudge through this so that it
forces me to learn the individual
skills, the individual variables that
affect this outcome. And that means I
might have to take 20 more lashings to
finally get it. And then at that point,
it starts to tick up. And then that's
when you start to become more of an
expert, more of a master at something.
Yeah. And if you don't sit in that pain,
you're going to keep repeating that
cycle with something new. So it was
crypto, then it was NFTs, then it was
whatever else just keeps going round and
round and round. Is that system in this
new book?
So this is probably for one chunk above that.
that.
Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.
No, cuz I was um I love the way you
break down the journey that we go
through in our mind and you do that with
multiple things because I think we don't
even see it.
Like that pattern you just explained is
a pattern you could live for three
decades. You've just saved people three
decades of pain by pointing it out and
saying, "Well, this is what you're
doing." Yeah.
And here's how to shift that. And I
think people make the mistake where we
go, I don't have time to learn, right?
right?
So, I'm going to learn from someone who
makes me feel like I can learn it in an hour.
hour. Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I'm going to do it, which still
is uninformed optimism. So, how do we
learn? Where do we go? How do you build
that time to say, "How many hours do I
need to even learn about this? I'm going
to put money in it." How would you
calculate that? If someone was like, I'm
going to put in a,000. I'm going to put
in a $10,000. How much time should they
put to value that amount of money?
So, great question. I would reframe the
premise, which would be we we'd still be
operating under this as I'm going to put
money into something. And so, I would
reject the original premise and say,
well, if you want to get really good at
something, then why don't we start with
skills that generate income? And so, if
we follow kind of the the three elements
of a business at its most basic form is
you have some element of promotion. So
we got to let people know about our
stuff. The second element is we got to
have a way to convert them. So we have
to be able to sell some sort of exchange
mechanism. And then finally, we have to
deliver, right? So track, convert,
deliver. Very easy. Um well, easy to
easy to say, hard to do, right? Within
each of those things, it's like, okay,
well, how do I let people know about my
stuff? Or even before that, what stuff
do I sell? Right? And so that's where I
like to think about it as people try to
think, man, there's so many people and
and try to boil the ocean. like it's
impossible to try and like try and think
what business could I possibly start
because you're trying to address the
world when it's much easier to say what
are the problems that exist in my life
and I kind of think of it as the three
Ps like most businesses come out of a
passion so something that you're just
inherently interested in they come out
of a profession so you currently
exchange right now you have a job
whatever it is and you get paid maybe
not as much as you want but you do get
paid uh for exchanging some sort of
value with the business and then the
third is P which is pain right so
there's some deep pain that sometimes
you went through. So maybe it's a mom
who had to figure out how to um create
non-allergenic food for their kids,
right? It's it would be something as
small as that. And so from that those
three kind of uh buckets is I think the
best starting point for most people who
want to start making an income. It's
like okay well if you're inherently
interested in this topic it's like can
we make can we let people know about
stuff around that topic? Can we create
solutions around that stuff? Can we
create services which is where I prefer
most people start which to be fair in
the United States 78% of businesses are
service based businesses. And I think
it's because they're the easiest to
start. You just trade time for money.
Very low risk,
right? You either get richer or you
don't. But like your your base your base
is zero. When you have a superior money
model, it gives you padding to be bad at
everything else
because you finally make more money per
customer than anyone else does in your
space, which means your advertising
doesn't have to be as good. You don't
have to be as good at sales. The offer
itself might not necessarily be as good.
But when you sequence these things
together properly the right way, then
you can unlock skill in the business.
People don't really give up on their
dreams. They see what it takes to get
their dreams and then decide it's too
expensive. I think that if we make who
we become the goal
rather than the thing we achieve instead
of winning once a decade we can win
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shower. Have you seen any metrics in
success rates between passion,
profession, and pain?
No, I haven't. I that would I really
want to know now.
Yeah. The reason why I ask it is because
I've been thinking about this for so
long and I want to go through each of
those because I think they're really I
think it's really sound advice.
I used to really believe that everyone
should try to do what they love
and love what they do. Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've changed my mind about that.
And I used to believe it very strongly
probably like 10 years ago. Mhm.
Mhm.
Only to then realize that that works
great for the 1 to 10%. Yeah.
Yeah.
But for the majority of people that's
going to be really really hard.
Mhm. And recently I was giving the
Princeton commencement speech for their graduation
graduation
and I was thinking about it a lot before
I gave that speech because I was like
wait a minute these are like
the most talented,
smartest people in the country who have
everything at their disposal. And I know
that even some of these people may not
get a job they love
or may never ever build something they
love. But guess what? Everyone needs
money to survive. Yeah.
So the question is and I want to hear
your take on it and I'll reflect back is
should you do what you love for money
and love what you do?
I think this is big myth number two. So
if we have we start with you know
passive versus active is big problem
number one. Um number two is follow your
passion. I think the reason that this is
so espoused I'll start where I think the
idea comes from and then kind of break
down from there. I think it's because
most of those commitment speeches are
billionaires or very successful people
and they say follow your passion. But if
we think through what other advice could
they give that would be socially
acceptable. They can't say you know I
got lucky. They can't say um I worked
you know super hard cuz people were like
sure you know like and so then it's like
okay well they're never going to get
attacked for saying follow your passion.
But the problem with that is it also
assumes that your passion or your
interest will never change.
And I mean anybody who's listening to
this just think about what you were
really interested in 10 years ago. It's
probably different than it is now. And
if you extrapolate that another 10
years, it'll probably be different
again. And so if we can think about the
hypothetical extreme of a really
successful person is someone who sticks
with the same thing for an extended
period of time, which is something that
I believe because you learn all the
lessons you possibly can in a very
narrow field, right? And that you
basically try and make as many mistakes
as you can. And if you basically, you
know, pay off all the all the ignorance
debt you can, it's like you end up just
succeeding by default if you just fail
every other way. But if you try and if
you try and do too many things, you
never actually get to to push the road
all the way, you know? trudge through
the mud and get there because you're
only learning one or two mistakes in
many fields and not many in one. Yeah.
Yeah.
And so the follow your passion issue is
that yeah, number one, the the passions
will change. Number two is that
sometimes you're passionate about things
that people don't value. And the thing
is is there's nothing wrong with that.
It's just that it'll be very hard to
make an income that way.
The third thing is that I think that it
creates an emotionality around business
or income, which is that the moment it
doesn't feel good that you believe the
myth that you should stop.
When I think that Oh,
good. you if you and I were to talk
about you know the business side of
anything there are elements that I love
and there are elements that I hate and I
see them as both required you know I
would love to maximize one versus the
other but it's just the cost of doing
business literally but I try to reframe
that pain that comes from doing the
things that I don't want to do to do the
things that I do want to do as the price
tag required to become the person that I
want to become and so if we think about
the traits of any person so it's like if
I want to be patient, then I can't
expect things to happen faster, right?
Like, if we were to go to the end of our
lives and say, "Hey, I want these
character traits." It's like, well, if
you had to play a character, you know,
in a video game and make them that way,
it's like, well, what would you have to
put them through in order to get those
traits? It's like, well, if you want
patience, then you're not going to get
things quickly. If you want to have
endurance, it's like you have to be able
to tolerate suffering, right? If you uh
if you want to be wise, it's like you're
going to have to get burnt and you're
going to have to learn the value of
judgment. And sometimes that means
you're going to get betrayed in order to
learn that pattern. And so it's like we
we lament the price tag for the things
that we want. And I think that at least
for me, my ultimate, you know, long-term
goal is just to become the person that I
the best version of me, right? And I
think that in order for that to happen,
I will have to go through pain. And so
the follow your passion, you know,
moniker also creates this emotionality
that gets you to quit when you really
are on the right path. And it's just
this is just part of it. And so I think
those are probably the big three um that
I think about when it comes to why
follow your passion doesn't serve most
people. And the other I'll say bonus
fourth might be that you might be really
good at something and people are very
willing to exchange money for that thing
and it doesn't mean that you actually
have to do the thing that you work on
that you make money on all the hours of
the day,
right? Like you can work for 20 or 30
hours a week and then have the other 120
to do whatever you want, 130 to do
whatever you want. Um, and that's I mean
not a bad not a bad thing in my opinion.
Yeah, I I'm that's that's the reason I
asked it. And I think even the advice
follow your passion doesn't mean focus
on your passion, right? Like there's
this confusion with like time. So even
when I think about it in my life
when I left the monastery and went to
work as a consultant because I needed to
pay the bills. Again, a very real
decision. Yeah. Because I was 25 years
old, living in my
loft room in my parents' house again
and that couldn't last very long.
When I went into that work, I was
teaching meditation by lunch. Like in my
lunch breaks, in the evenings, I would
teach meditation to my colleagues. There
was no demand for it. Two people would
show up.
2013, this was meditation and
mindfulness were not this
global movement. And I was just enjoying
it because I was following my passion.
But I was making money by being a
consultant which was trading my time for money.
money.
As I followed that passion more, I got
more confidence in it. The market
changed. We're in a very different
landscape today 12 years on for there
being business opportunities in wellness
and health that didn't exist 12 years
ago. And so now following my passion for
all of that time meant there was a time
when I could focus on it. Mhm.
But let's say I had another passion that
wasn't monetizable, people weren't
interested in at all. I could follow it
for years and bring it into my work and
bring it into my life and it would be
beautiful and I'd be more fulfilled,
but it didn't need to be my thing,
right? And so I really really like that
advice and it's something that I I
almost want to propagate so hard right
now because
I I feel just responsible that for so
long we've been telling people to, you
know, just do what you love and chase
what you love. And it's like, yeah, in
your private time and personal time, you
should, but but don't think that that
has to be the thing you make money from,
especially if you have a really obscure gift.
gift.
I 100% agree. I mean, I'm a utilitarian.
I I tend to be very I've probably edged
too much on pragmatic. Um, and maybe
that's just the im immigrant upbringing
of just like how are you going to pay
your bills? That's all anyone cared about.
about.
Well, the funny thing is I had that too.
My parents immigrants, too. But
I I think that there's a I think I got
really lucky to figure out what I loved
really early. Yeah.
Yeah.
And I got really lucky that I got to get
really good at it really early.
I had this mentor really early on in my
career who said never do what you love
because then it becomes work.
And so just a completely counter take
and this guy was a guy who just had a
normal he had three or four stores that
he ran and he retired at age 28 and not
as a gazillionaire. I think he made
something in the neighborhood of
probably like 30 or $40,000 a month, uh,
you know, take home. And for 20 years,
he did nothing besides collect his money
once a month and then he played golf 5
days a week and he got to hang out and
wa and basically be there for the
entirety of his kids and he loved that.
And that was that he accomplished he he
used to tell me he's like, I slayed the
dragon of life. Um, and so what's
interesting is that now the that his
girls are out of the house, he now is
going back and he's back in like, well,
what am I going to do now? Right? I
wholeheartedly agree with the the the
not following your passion piece. the
the practical translation um might be or
at least my my my third myth that I
would probably tack on to this as we're
building these
is um overbelief in idea and underbelief
in execution.
Oh yeah, so true.
And so there's two elements to this. So
one is that I think many people who are
you know intimidated to start believe
that they have to start the next
Facebook and you know the Zuckerbergs
and the basis of the world are so
incredibly rare. The vast majority of
people who got into business have many
many failured and many many failures
many many failed businesses uh that that
led them to fail into success right and
so uh one is that the idea has to be
this big amazing thing and the second is
that you shouldn't that the idea itself
is is the success right because they'll
share with as many people as they can
and they almost scratch the itch of
starting when you haven't done anything
I say there's basically four steps to
starting a business it's like you have
to get an LLC you take the LLC to a bank
and then you get a bank account and then
you connect that bank account to a
payment processor and then you go ask a
stranger if you can do something in
exchange for money and if you do all
four of those things you have a business
that's it right and so a lot of people
like spend years being like I'm going to
start a business one day it's like you
can do it tomorrow literally do all of
this tomorrow
and then it's like okay well then how do
I get the person to exchange money it's
like well you reach out to the people
you know right you open your phone you
look at the 400 contacts you have there
you open up Facebook profile. You have
300 friends. You you look at those
friends and then you just say, "Hey,"
you send a personal video, send a
personal text and say, "Hey, I am
starting this thing. Um, this is what
we're doing. This is what I'm solving.
Uh, do you know anybody?" That's it. And
so, it's not even like you're asking
your friends to buy something from you.
And what's interesting though is that
90% of the time, the person who responds
is, "Oh, you know, you could do that for
me if you want, but that just gives you
the easiest way that costs 0." And
because we're all connected with the
internet and phones, it's like the
barrier to entry has never been lower
than it is now. It's just the problem is
that um the barrier to distraction is
even lower.
What what stood out to me there is the
personal text, the video and the email
and then the fact that you're asking
your friends to introduce you to people
who may want it, not asking them directly.
directly.
That first part, the amount of emails I
get and I'm sure you get as well of
people pitching their services to you,
but none of them are personalized. Yeah.
Yeah.
Walk me through the difference of that
personal video, that personal because
it's it's it's life-changing like when
it's done right. So, I mean, these are
your friends or at least your contacts
that you've met at some point in your
life. And so, trying to recall when you
met that person, literally just stating
their name and asking that it's, hey,
I'm going to be doing this. And I would
say consistency is the currency of
credibility. So, what people don't want
to do is refer a friend to somebody
who's fly by night. But if you can
actually just demonstrate that, hey,
he's still doing that, the likelihood
that they're going to refer someone goes
way up because the relational capital is
not nearly at risk. Because if I'm going
to introduce somebody to somebody else,
I'm risking my social capital on the
hope that the third party or whoever is
sending this original text is actually
going to do a good job. And so you can
also include a little bit of risk
reversal in that which is like, hey, I'm
doing the first 10 for free and the
reason I'm doing it is because I just
want to get some testimonials, get some
reviews, and also just so that I can
learn, too. Um, and I think just being
really upfront and really being really
honest about it makes the stakes feel a
lot easier. And so then those first 10
people, you do exactly that. And the
thing is is that you're going to be
better off than they will. For those of
you who are like, I don't want to work
for free. It's like you're not working
for free. You're earning and then you're
sorry, you're learning and then you're
earning. And so we got to go through the
learn phase first. And the best way to
do it is people who aren't direct
connections of yours. Maybe one step
step removed. And then at that point,
they're going to give you very real
feedback. And if you do a good job, then
after a certain point, my goal is to get
people to basically shift supply demand
in their favor. Like I say the two the
two laws of business that I am the most
moved by are supply and demand which is
this X right here and then leverage. So
it's a fulcrum for leverage. And so I
see those are the two biggest forces in
business. And so I want to create
artificial demand for somebody who's
starting out by just saying we'll do a
lot of stuff for free. And then what
happens is when you have more no more
time to give and if people still want
you to do stuff and you say hey I can't
take any more people. If you want you
can pay and people like yeah that's
fine. And then boom and then you make
your first sale. And so, and you'll have
confidence because you're like, "Well, I
just did it 20 other times." And look at
the results from those people. And but
and the first one, you'll be embarrassed
about the 19th one, you're like, "Wow,
you're going to already pay down 60 70%
of all the mess ups that you were going
to do."
And then at that point, you're going to
start feeling good. And then from there,
my way of doing it is just you just keep
bumping the price by 20% every five
people until eventually people start
stop saying yes. And then up we're like,
"Okay, this is the price I can do for
now." And that's basically a very
seamless transition into how do I go
from nothing to making my first dollar.
How do you get over the block of I don't
want to work for free?
I actually think it's entitlement. I
think it's believing that you deserve
something for nothing. Like to to flip
the flip the rules in reverse. Imagine
somebody comes to you, they've never
done anything ever in this particular
space and they say, "Hey, will you pay
me to do this thing?" Would you
immediately, now maybe some people would
be like, "Sure." then it's a charity
thing which is different but would you
be like you know what I I really believe
that this guy is the best person that I
can get this problem solved from
probably not and so to carry some of
that risk for yourself you say I'm going
to front this but if you want to not do
it for free thing number one is that
you're getting educated so like you're
you're getting free education which I
see is absolutely valuable the second
thing is that you can make terms that
don't necessarily mean that it's free
like there's the price and then there's
the terms the terms of the agreement can
be if you do this with you have to give
me feedback uh throughout the entire
process and at the end if I do a good
job you leave a review right and on
three different formats and leave me a
video and leave me you know a text
version of it that's now absolutely like
I'll say it differently a business owner
they do illegally and and so therefore
they're very willing to pay people to
leave them testimonials and so if you
would be willing to pay $500 to get an
amazing testimonial then they're
basically you're they've paid you that
$500 but I promise you those first five
10 reviews will make you so much more
than they could ever have paid you and
not given you a testimonial. So, if we
if we flip it and say, "Hey, would you
rather get $1,000 from this person and
have them not leave a review versus free
and a glowing review?" I promise you,
you will make so much more from one
glowing review than you will from the
$1,000 long term. So, you're just
building up the stockpile, the
foundation to then build whatever you
want to build on top of it.
Yeah, it's it's really strong advice.
It's I I hope everyone who's listening
and watching right now is like going
this is what I'm going to do right now
like 10 hours for free because
that's where we're blocking ourselves.
We don't have the experience
and therefore we don't feel comfortable
selling more because we don't even know
how the service will look.
Right? So you're trying to sell a
service and maybe you sold one but you
haven't been through the full life cycle
of what it feels like to deliver that service.
service.
Now you don't know how many website
revisions or edits there's going to be.
You don't know how many app updates
there going to be. you have no idea
and now you're actually less likely to
go sell another one because you're
scared that you don't even know if you
can do it. And I feel
under that entitlement is an insecurity totally
totally
of I don't actually even know how to do
this. Like I've got a lot of friends who
are like really talented, really
skilled, they they actually would do a
great job,
but because they've never just done 10
clients for free,
they don't know how it's going to be if
they went and got 100 clients tomorrow.
So they're scared of getting a 100 clients.
clients. Yeah.
Yeah.
Not because they're not capable, but
because they haven't taken 10 clients
through the process.
So I want to give you something super
tactile for the audience.
Yeah, please.
Just 10 by 10. So give 10 people 10
hours. And so you can say, "Hey, I'm
going to do 10 hours of work for free."
That is a really compelling offer. And
you're going to do it one-on-one and
ideally with them. And so if you want to
build the website, build it in front of
them for the 10 hours so they can give
you real-time feedback. If you want to
uh you know write email copy, you still
meet with them once a week or not
ideally multiple times a week during
that so you can pay down that the 10
hours faster. And if you're worried you
can do you can do five people for 5
hours that matters less but it's more
that one-on-one so the least scalable
thing possible and it's free labor that
they can track. The reason that's such a
compelling offer is that everyone even
at in in every country even minimum wage
has value. Anybody can understand that 5
hours of work is a material amount of
work that you're choosing to give away
for free. And so even if you have no
expertise, labor at base price is still
worth something. And so if you add on
expertise, it becomes a very compelling
offer. But the beauty of that setup of
having five or 10 hours that you choose
to spend is that there's basically if
you're doing it oneonone, there's almost
no technical, you know, component to it.
You don't have to like build all these
calendaring and and schedule. It's just
like you're just going to text those
five people, hey, you want to do same
time tomorrow. Very simple. And then for
each of those, you know, calls that
you'll take with them. Um by the in the
very first call, you just say, hey, I
want to be clear. What's the problem?
what do you want to you know what do you
want to solve and do you mind at the end
of the five hours we spend together if
this was good if I can tell you about
what I do if you just set that that that
preframe up front and then you do the
hours on the fifth call or the fifth
hour or the 10th hour you say hey
remember I said at the beginning I was
like has this been good so far it's like
awesome let me just recap what we've
done over what we've covered and the
progress we've made do you feel happy
about that great so this is what I think
it would look like cuz also you spent
those 5 or 10 hours getting as much
information or ammunition from them of
all the other problems that you could
potentially solve and then at that point
says, "Hey, I think that I can solve
problem 1, 2, and three. It'll take me
maybe 6 months, but this is what kind of
an engagement would look like. How does
that sound to you?" That's all you have
to do. And the thing is is that after
you give someone 5 or 10 hours, there's
so much reciprocity that's built up.
They're like, "Well, shoot." I mean,
sure. Now, if somebody on the first call
says, "No, I don't want to." Then it's
like, you don't you don't even need to
like continue. And so, one of the big
things that I I'm a big proponent of is
absolutely give stuff away for free to
people who are qualified. Yes.
Yes.
And so, you're like, I don't want a lot
of tire kickers. was like for sure
neither do I. But if I had a room of 100
of the most qualified people, which if
you're like what are a qualified person,
it's it's B. So uh IBM made this figured
this out like 70 years ago and it's
really never changed. So B is budget
authority need timing. Do they have the
money to spend the ability to make the
decision? They need the thing right now
and is now is is it now a priority? And
so if we had a room of a hundred people
who met all four of those criteria,
wouldn't you want to do something and
spend five or 10 hours for free? I mean,
my god, like if you had if you could
sign like the reason they sell time
shares over six hour blocks of time is
because it just takes time to build
trust for a higher ticket sale. So, if
anything, it's like you're choosing to
say that I'm going to give you 5 hours,
but they're giving you 5 hours to
influence them to ultimately prove that
you're good at whatever you do. And so,
I think that is the easiest way to get
started. You can make that your
front-end offer. You can put that in the
video. And I think the the beauty of
that specific offer is that you don't
need to even figure out what you're
going to sell because you'll figure it
out during the time you spend with them.
And so you can figure out the offer in
real time with them. And also because
you're doing it one-on-one, you can
basically you can you can permutate it.
You can you can tweak it every single
time you you you pitch it to somebody on
the fifth or eighth call or whatever.
That ultimately gets you so many faster
iterations that are low risk.
Yeah. You know, talking to you today and
Alex, I watch your stuff all the time.
The thing that's standing out to me is
you're super tactical. There's all these
methods, there's all these systems, but
then when you were talking about your
life, you were like, it's all about who
I want to become.
Is there a number that you stop at or is
it actually who you want to become
that's your northstar? I see
entrepreneurship as the single greatest
path for personal development because if
if we define you know learning as fast
feedback loops, there are very few other
you know professions that give you that
much feedback that brutally honest
brutally honest feedback as the market
will do. And so at every point where I
get stuck in a business, I think to
myself like what skill do I lack? And I
define everything by skills. So even
traits which is just you know a
colloquial term which is really just a
bucket of many skills. Um, I just think,
okay, well, in order for me to appear
confident or be confident, it's really
like 38 things that I have to learn. And
all of these things, if I break them
down easier, I can do them. So, it's
like, okay, when I shake hands, I make
sure that I web the the middle of my
hand and I squeeze firmly and I look at
the person in the eye. It's like, that's
thing one. Thing two is that when we're
talking, like, you nod because you've
been doing this for so long. But some
people who don't know how to have
conversations just stand like this. But
somebody who's an active listener will
nod. They'll say, "Oh, that's a great
point, whatever." And so it's like
that's a second thing. When I walk into
a room, I'm going to call people by
name. It's a third thing. And so when I
when I try and think about these traits
of who I want to become, it's like can I
break these down into actions that I can
actually do. And so I think that is that
has been a large part of the the growth
that I've I've hopefully, you know, been
able to uh achieve. But in terms of the
ultimate goal for me, it's always just
been to be useful. Mhm.
And if I think I just do that, then I
like that it's such a simplified goal
because being useful has uh it actually
includes multiple parties because you
cannot be useful unless there's someone
else you're being useful to. And so it
gives you something controllable which
is that I have to learn skills so that I
can serve someone else and that is how I
can ultimately be useful. And so even
when we're, you know, we're making
content or whatever it is that we're
putting out, I I always try to think
like is this useful? Like can someone
actually will this change someone's
behavior? Like I want to educate. It's
like what is education? It just means
same condition, new behavior. So if
someone has had their same day over and
over again, then they're not learning.
So if your day looks the same every
single day, you have learned nothing.
And so that means that if you listen to
this podcast and then nothing changes my
behavior as a result, this was just
entertainment, not education. And so
that has been just it's a very sobering
point because you realize, oh, I have to
change my behavior in order to
demonstrate that I have learned. Now the
second component of this is like, okay,
well, what's intelligence then? So
intelligence as I define it is rate of
learning. So, how quickly do I change my
behavior in the same condition based on
some stimulus? Mhm.
Mhm.
And so, if you you in a very real way,
you can influence your intelligence by
being willing to change faster. And so,
if you've heard 10 podcasts and then you
eventually change versus somebody who
listens to one and then changes, that
person is more intelligent than you are.
And so, I see that is actually really
encouraging because it means like, oh my
god, I have an active control on how
quickly I can learn simply by changing
my behavior. And so, that has been kind
of my my motus operandum for how I how I
how I live life. Yeah, I want to dive
into that. But as an aside, my No, no,
no. The reason why you you'll get it in
a second. As an aside, I've been really
embarrassed of my handshake lately. It's
because I've got a really bad case of
tennis elbow. I've been playing a lot of
pickle ball and so my elbow is
destroyed. And so every time I've been I
was on tour for the last month and every
time I've shook someone's hand in a meet
and greet, my hand was just like just
like literally and I felt so
embarrassed, but every time every time I
did a proper handshake, my elbow would
hurt. Anyway, um but so you just you
just brought back all that all all that
trauma. I really appreciate that mindset
because it's what you said earlier that
it actually sets you up for long-term
success even when things are not going
your way, when the results may not go
your way, when you're having to do the
things you hate. Like it's only when
that's your north star that you can do
all of that. Whereas if your northstar
is just a number
or just an exit or whatever it may be,
it's really really hard when you feel
like that exit is just further and
further away and that numbers further
and further away.
And I'm sure that you've met I mean so
many entrepreneurs that they have their
exit and everyone almost has invariably
the same story. I went to a beach, I
drank my ties for a month and then
realized that this wasn't for me. And
so, so one of the refrains that I have
in my head all the time is uh you are
the problem like me talking to me, but
like we are the problem. And so we have
this issue where we fundamentally just
always want what we what we can't have.
Single people want to get married,
married people want to be single. And so
it's more that we just want something
different almost all the time. And so
it's that that desire and you're you're
the monk here, so you know more about
this than I do. That's the issue. Like
that's the core problem. Um and so even
everyone right now who who doesn't have
a business is like, "Man, I would like
to start a business someday." And then
all the people who started businesses
are like, "My god, I can't wait to get
out of this thing." Right? And so it's
just there are pros and cons on both
sides. There are trade-offs. And I would
say that if there was a fourth myth that
we were we we would tackle. It's that
people want the benefits of multiple
paths without the trade-offs of each.
And so I think one of the reason so
there's lots of, you know, content of
like, you know, talk to 80-year-olds and
they'll tell you, you know, their
biggest life regrets. But what I find
really interesting is that typically
what they will do is they will assume
all the benefits of their current life
and say I also wish I had the benefits
of this other path. Yes,
Yes,
without the costs of that other path
that are unknown. And also they don't
they forget to subtract all the benefits
of their existing path. And so I like to
play it out. It's like okay well if I
were to do this other path and make that
trade um would I be would I be better
off? And most times it ends up just
being like I'd probably be about as
happy as I am now.
like it's like, "Oh man, that the one
that got away, it's like you'd probably
be about just as happy as you are now.
As soon as you play it out a couple
years, it's like you probably be about
the same." And so that's actually
dramatically reduced my kind of regret
uh analysis from from a living
perspective. But I think the trade-off
part is so important because especially
when you're starting out or even when
you're more advanced in business,
there's a what I call the fallacy of the
perfect pick, which is that we
overanalyze things because we think that
we have to get it just right. Because we
think that if we pick just perfectly,
we'll find a way to get only benefits
and no costs. and it doesn't exist. And
so instead, people just stay stuck
thinking that there is some pick that
they're not seeing, but it's just not
true. And so I think the faster you're
willing to make the trade-offs and
actually spell them out like these are
the things I'm willing to trade because
I think a lot of people when they want
to like pursue any endeavor, they they
immediately think, and I think this is a
little bit more western, is that they
think about addition. They think about
how can how many more things can I do?
How many more things can I add to my
calendar? But most like right now, you
currently have a quote full calendar.
You live 24 hours a day and you do
stuff. And so I think it's more valuable
to think what am I willing to give up?
What am I willing to sacrifice? And
because we have to create space, we have
to create this vacuum so that we can put
this other thing in. And so those are
the trades. And I think in the beginning
the trades are sometimes uh you know,
more emotional. Uh because in the
beginning it's more, you know, my
friends will think this is weird. Uh
they don't want to get this text. What
if someone says, "Oh yeah, you're
starting your business. I forgot." Or,
"Oh, you're not not coming out with us.
Are you really doing that thing again?"
Dude, it's not going to I mean, hey,
man, I love you, man. Like I I'm
supporting you, right? or your your
mom's like are you really going to
pursue podcasting as a thing? Right.
Right.
I think like the the you know the first
rule of entrepreneurship is use what you got.
got.
Right. It's not waiting for some perfect
condition because um starting is the
perfect condition.
Yeah. That's where the profession part
comes in. Going back to where you are like
like
going back to passion, profession pain
with profession that's use what you got
like you actually understand this
industry. Maybe you even worked really
hard to get a degree in it if you went
to college
or you've had work experience since you
were 16. But you kind of want to
disregard that because you think there's
the perfect pick over here and
potentially the passionate pick over
here. How do you turn that profession
into a service, a side hustle, a real
business? What does what does that look like?
like?
So what's what's really nice from the
prof the profession of the three is by
far the fastest angle for sure because
you already have the thing that's
valuable because you already do exchange
it for money. And so the only thing you
actually have to add at that point is
promotion and conversion. So you have to
say, how do I let people know about this
thing that I'm doing? And secondarily,
how do I get these people once they find
out to give me money? Right? And so from
a letting people know about it, I gave
one of eight ways of letting people
know. So there's warm outreach, so
that's letting people know one-on-one
about your stuff. There's cold outreach,
which is oneonone to strangers. You've
got uh paid ads, right, which you can
run um on any platform. Um or you've got
posting content. Those are the only four
things that one person can do. Now,
that's a great breakdown. There's only
four things cuz you start thinking
there's a million things I have to do.
You've got strangers and people you know
and you've got oneonone and one to many.
That's the four box. Now from those core
four you then unlock four others which
is that I can do oneonone uh outbound or
I can do or I can post constant or I can
run ads to get customers who then get me
more customers to get affiliates or
partners who get me more customers to
get employees who will then do these
things on my behalf to get me more
customers or to get agencies who will
then do it as v you know as a vendor on
my behalf. And so the first is the
everyone must start with the core four.
Even if you get, you know, a bunch of,
you know, partners who then promote on
your behalf, you still started with a
message that you sent to somebody,
right? And so the core four is the first
activity that you must do in order to
promote. These other things are higher
leverage. That makes sense. But this is
the core four that you start with. Once
you have someone who's responding to you
and say, "Hey, I'm interested in your
stuff." Uh, which takes someone from a
contact to an engaged lead, right?
They've shown interest. Then we
basically have to take them from engaged
to ideally somebody who's going to buy,
right? And so that process um at the
most basic level is going to be a
conversation that leads to a conversion,
right? And so I have um a very simple
framework that I that I encourage people
who are starting out to follow which I
call closer. Um and so it's an acronym
so it's easy. So C stands for clarify
which you begin the conversation like
hey why' you respond to my thing right?
And the nice thing is that whenever you
promote you only are really going to
have a conversation with someone who
engages back right so you always have
the reason why right at the front. So
what made you what made you comment on
my post? What made you DM me after that?
What made you uh respond to my ad? What
made you u even respond to my my
original message or call? Right? So that
you have that reason. So what made you
do that? Clarify. Then you have L, which
is you label them with a problem. So
okay, so what I'm hearing is uh this is
problem. This is what you're trying to
solve. Does that sound about right?
Okay, cool. Then we go to O, which is
overview their past experiences. And so
here we're simply asking them more or
less the same four questions, which is
okay, what have you done so far? How did
that work for you? Uh what was good?
What was bad? And then we try and tie
that to our solution, the pieces that we
can solve. It's like, oh, I think you
might like this because we have this
other element. I'll get to that later,
but okay, this is great. What else have
you done? What else have you done? And
so that's kind of the pain cycle. And
the reason the pain cycle is important
is because in order to increase
motivation in the short term, we have to
basically expand the deprivation around
the thing that they want. And so we have
to we have to increase its priority in
the short term to get them to take
action. And that's why that that cycle
is so important. The fourth is S, which
is we sell the vacation. And so we want
to talk about the outcomes of what the
experience is going to be like once the
problem's solved. Uh rather than uh just
having some long-winded pitch. And
what's very interesting about the cell
portion is that most people talk way too
much. We try and get it to under 320
words. So it doesn't like people if you
can if you can very accurately describe
someone's existing condition to them and
say, "So it sounds like you're
struggling with this and it sounds like
you're struggling with this and it
sounds like you're struggling with this
and if we solve this one, this is what
unlocks. We solve this one, this is what
locks and we solve this, this one locks.
Is that about right?" They're like,
"Yeah." It's like we can totally help
you. A lot of times you actually don't
need to sit if you nail the the pain
part. The pitch is very easy. And so I
am a big believer in having three points
in whatever pitch you have. So you can
always chunk it up, you know, like I
have our attract, convert, deliver. You
have okay, how do we get people to find
out? How do we convert them and how do
we give them the stuff? Right? Having
three elements of whatever it is. I
mean, I used to do sales scripts for,
you know, different companies back in
the day. So it's like I had a mortgage
lead company and they're like, "Okay,
well the the leads are, you know,
timely. You want them to be qualified
and you want them to be exclusive."
Okay, great. If you're in fitness, it's
like you need you need a you need a
workout, you need to eat right, and you
need to have accountability. If you have
all three, then you can't fail, right?
And so there's always three. And then
with each of those three, I have kind of
in the back pocket a little anecdote
that to give an example of that. So that
way it makes it more real for the person
rather than explaining all the sets and
reps and all that stuff. No one cares.
That's why it's selling the vacation,
not the plane flight. Uh we're not going
to sell how we're going to get there.
We're going to sell where we're going to go.
go.
And so once we do S, then we go to E. So
at that point, we ask for the sale. If
they say no, then E and R come into come
into uh come into play. E is explaining
away their concerns. There's only five,
right? They're going to have a timing
issue. I've got a lot going on right
now. They have a money issue. I don't
think it's worth it. Uh they have a
decision maker problem, which is I don't
have the authority to make the decision.
I need someone else's permission. Uh
they're going to have a uh a stall
issue, which is let me think about it.
And then there's fifth is preferences.
So I don't like this particular thing
about your product or solution.
Um which is just saying that they want
your results a different way. And so
basically once you understand how to
overcome each of those five issues which
they are all actually just uh fallacies
in decision-m. So if it's timing issue
it's not really a time thing. It's a
priorities thing. If it's a money thing
it's not really a money thing. It's a
value thing. If it's a decisionmaker
thing it's really that they need support
not permission. And then we rely on past
agreements in order to say hey well your
husband knows that you're overweight
right? Do you think he wants you to stay
overweight? No. Then why would it be
against you doing something to change
that? Right? So, just walking through
those and I go through all of them, but
that's okay.
No, I love it. Yeah, this is a master
class, man.
Um, and then and then from a stalling
perspective, it's actually helping
someone make a decision because a lot of
people don't know how to decide because
you will have this conversation far more
than every person you talk to. People
maybe only have five 10 sales
conversations a year. If you are selling
in for a business, you'll have four or
five a day. And so, you should
absolutely always be more equipped than
they are to solve the problem. Um, the
one that I skipped was preferences,
which is, you know, I like uh, hey, I I
really want, you know, my my my friend
Charlotte, she lost 30 lbs doing your
thing, but can I just keep eating the
food that I'm currently eating? And so,
they want their results your way. And
so, the easiest way to explain around
that is if you change the variables,
change the outcome. Do you like the
outcome? Yeah. Well, then don't change
the variables.
And this is the only thing that I can
give you confidence in. And the question
is, is
you eating the food you want more
important than you looking the way you
want to look? And that's a real
question. And if the person says yes, it
is, then it's like, okay, well, then
nothing's going to change. if you don't change.
change. Yeah.
Yeah.
And so then you get to have a real
conversation. But each of those those
are the fundamental kind of ways of
getting over them. And so once you
explain away the concerns you after each
explanation, you always ask again. So
does like does that does that help that?
Does that does that um does that solve
that for you? Great. So ready to move
forward, you ready to do whatever the
next thing is? And then finally is R.
And the R actually happens after the
sale and is something that I added years
later in my career. It used to just be
close. Um but the R um is reinforce the
decision. So in the 24 hours post
purchase is when the vast majority of
people either either have you know cold
feet or they regret or you can reinforce
it and becomes a a super positive right
and so people believe it or not there's
tons of research that supports this is
that they will make a decision about
your business based on the first 24
hours post purchase. So it's this huge
moment where you can make a first
impression that preframes the remainder
of the of the relationship that you have
with them. And so being incredibly
dialed of like hey so you bought let me
tell you what the next steps are going
to be. We're going to take these steps
and we're going to tie that to goal.
Right? So, you said you wanted these
three things. The way that we're going
to solve these three things is these
three steps. These are the actions you
take. We're going to meet tomorrow at
this time. I'll see you there. Or if you
have a, you know, onboarding rep, then
you'd go from there. But that
fundamentally is how you'd have the
conversion conversation. And so, to loop
back to if I'm a professional, how do I
do this? It's like, well, you're going
to use the core four. You're going to
reach out to people. Once they respond,
you'll initiate the conversation where
you go through the closer framework and
then you make them an offer to do your
stuff, which will be either moonlighting
or, you know, in the morning. And what's
really interesting is that people think
that their 9 to5 is getting in the way
of their dreams when it's really they're
5 to 9. And so 5:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m.
it's like you're it's four prime hours
and then 5:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. it's
another four prime hours. So it's like
you've got eight you've got a full
workday that you can work which I
strongly recommend. I think a lot of
people are big on the burn the boats
thing and I think there's a time and a
place for that. But if you have a family
and you've got a mortgage, I would
recommend you keep your job.
I agree. and then supplement your
income. And then at the point where your
supplemental income in your off time
surpasses your your full-time income,
that is when I say make the jump. And
for me, cuz I actually, believe it or
not, tend to be relatively riskaverse
person. I would say if you do that for 6
months because there's going to be volatility
volatility
um in the business. And I'll also just
play out the next problem they're going
to have if that's all right.
Go for it. So,
So,
so much value, man. So much value.
So volatility is a symptom of
insufficient volume. And so if you feel
like you're like, man, how, you know, I
got a couple customers and then, you
know, the the leads stop coming in. It's
like, well, you're doing insufficient
volume. You're not doing enough of the
core four. We have to post more content.
We have to post more ads. We have to do
more reachouts, right? That's what we
have to do. And so, if you think, okay,
well, I've been doing these reachouts
and, you know, no one's responding or
things like that. One, we need to make
sure that the offer that we have is
good, which I think we started with the
5 hour thing. I think it's a great first
offer. But, you know, under that
assumption, if we do this, I have a rule
of 100, which is that you do 100 uh per
day. So, that means you're doing either
a h 100red minutes that you're putting
into posting content and you post and
you post to be very clear and you post
uh you you spend $100 a day on ads uh or
you do 100 reachouts. And if you want to
be crazy, you can do all three. And so,
in those in those in those scenarios, uh
the key is that you have to keep going.
And so if you get, let's say you do the
rule of 100 and you get one sale a week,
okay, then if you want to, that would
give you four sales a month roughly. If
you're like, man, I want to go from four
sales a month to to 16 sales a month.
The nice thing is that you actually have
a clear input output equation, which is
that, okay, it costs me 700 primary, you
know, efforts to get one sale. And so
that volatility feels like it's only
one, but it's because you're not doing
enough. If I take that 700 and do 700
per day, then all of a sudden I'll be
making one sale a day. And
fundamentally, that little compression
process is the only thing that separates
very small businesses from very large
businesses. Most small business owners
have no idea how much more volume the
guys who are ahead of them put out. I
remember a conversation at the very
beginning of me deciding to make content
after I sold the company where I said,
"Hey, you know, I I really want to learn
this Instagram game um and content
game." And so I talked to somebody who's
big big influencer and I said, you know,
can you can you analyze my stuff and
tell me what I'm doing wrong? And he
said, "Dude, you're not doing anything
wrong. You're just doing too little."
And so he said he said, "Pull up your
Instagram." And I pulled it up. Uh and I
think I was doing like a post every
other day or something like that. And
he's like, "Dude, I got four posts a
day." And I was like, "Whoa." And then
he said, "Pull up your LinkedIn." And I
I don't think I posted on LinkedIn. He's
like, "I got 10 posts a day." And he's
like, "Pull up your pull up your
Twitter." At the time, now X is like I
had nothing. Right. And so he he went
side by side. He's like, I'm putting out
70 80 a day and you're putting out one
every other and you're complaining. And
I was like, got it.
And so the most people dramatically
underestimate the amount of volume that
is required. And that volume has a great
feedback loop for skill because you do
these iterations and you will suck
and that is okay. And as long as you
like the process that I have for
improving any part of any system is just
do a tremendous amount of volume. Let's
say we do a 100 whatevers. We look at
the top 10 percent of of the ones that
got the highest response rate or the
ones that got the most views or the ads
that got the most clicks. We say, "Okay,
what was different about these top 10
percent compared to the other 90?" And
so the next hundred we do, we say,
"Let's just try and just do the thing we
did in the top 10%. We do it again." And
that continual refinement process has
been the key to all the stuff that we've
done. It's just look at what worked, do
more of that. And so if you were in the
professional bucket, that is more or
less kind of the approach that I would
take to get that first dollar.
Everyone needs to listen to that 15
minutes every day. I'm not kidding. That
was the most amount of value I think has
ever been packed in a 15 minutes that
I've ever heard in my entire life. And
I'm not kidding. That is such brilliant,
brilliant advice. Totally broken down
step by step. I mean, you could I mean,
you can make like 70 posts off of just
the last 15 minutes. It was so No. And
and I mean that. I'm not just saying
that because right now as you're
speaking, I've got so many friends that
I've got in my head that are exactly at
that point. And it's either the volume
that's messing them up. It's either not
having the plan to how do you pitch and
convert? Two questions. The first is how
do you stop being scared of sucking?
Because a lot of my friends are scared
of sucking. Mhm.
Mhm.
And the second one is why are we so
uncomfortable selling
and promoting and showing our work?
So the first one, what's really
interesting about the question is that I
think that most people are actually very
okay with sucking. I think they're very
not okay with being judged for sucking.
And so I think that at the at the onset
we have to redefine success as trying
and not as succeeding uh or at least
getting whatever desired outcome there
is because failure and success are are
salt and pepper. They're married.
They're the one one leads to the next.
And so the idea is we want to get as
many failures out of the way as fast as
possible. And so it's like we want to
pay down that failure debt as again as
soon as we can. And so the the very
tactical thing that I would advise is
think about there's we think I don't I
don't want people to think that I'm a
failure. It's actually not people.
There's like two people that you hear
their voice in your head. And so when
you actually get really clear on who
whose voice is that because I'll tell
I'll tell you a real world example. So
for me
when I this is sounds ridiculous but
just but just to show you hopefully how
ridiculous whatever you think sounds
I'll share one of mine. So, when I was
uh thinking about selling my company,
the the offer was for for 46.2 million.
And I I was afraid that it wasn't enough
to impress the people that I wanted to
impress. And so, and I had to figure
that out. I was like, I don't know. I
mean, is it worth it? Maybe I should
hold on to it longer and grow more. And
I want, you know, back and forth. And
when I thought more more about it, I was
like, actually, there's only one person
whose opinion I'm concerned about. And
then when I named it, when I was like,
"Oh, it's Tom. Tom's the per and like
I'm not even that close with Tom, but
Tom, my envisionment of Tom judging my
my my my exit as not good enough for
their approval." I was like, "Wait, I'm
letting Tom have this much influence
over my life. That's absurd." And so,
one of the big um reframes that I have
in my head is that if you don't know why
you believe what you believe, it's not
your belief, it's someone else's. And so
if you can't explain like why am I not
doing this? If you can't actually
explain it, it's because there's someone
else's voice that is influencing you
that you're not aware of. And so I try
and Yeah. Ex the naming is the key part
because as soon as you see that, you're
like Tom. You're like screw Tom. You're
like I want to It's like is is Tom's
approval worth more than the dream that
you want to pursue. And as soon as you
get that, you're like, well, hell no.
And then you move forward. And I can
tell you just from from the other side
of this, and I want to I want to be
really clear. I understand how scary it
is. It took me 6 months to quit my job.
And I I talked to my friend every single
day saying, "This is the day. This is
the day. This is the day." And when I
did finally quit my job, I drove across
the country. And I only called people
from home when I was already halfway
across. I didn't tell anyone I was
leaving because I was so afraid of what
they would say. So I say this as
somebody who absolutely gets it. But I
just want to tell you from the other
side of it, it's, you know, this is a
Leila quote, not me, but you know, fear
is a mile wide and an inch deep. And so
it looks like this vast ocean of of like
I'm going to drown. But as soon as you
take the first step, you're like, "Oh,
this is a puddle."
And there's a quote from Jo Willick that
I love that's recent. It's been top of
mind for me, which is besides death, all
failure is psychological.
It's just when you the longer you think
about it, the more you're like, wait,
all failure is just me drawing an
arbitrary line in the sand that I say
anything that does not meet the standard
will force me to be upset. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it's like, okay, well, if I don't
die, then I can keep going. And if I
don't die, then it means I can stand it.
Yeah. And and I think a big part of it
when I'm listening to you is because
it's psychological.
Let me know that it will happen. Yeah.
So I remember when I put out my first
video, which I didn't tell anyone I was
going to do. I spent two years watching
videos before I made one and put one out.
out.
And when I put out my first video, I
remember my friend saying to me, "You
talk too fast. the music is too loud.
It's edited badly. Cool. Like it wasn't
received with praise.
Now, I didn't think about that too much.
And now, if I go back to advise someone,
I'd say, anticipate that. Yeah.
Yeah.
Because if you anticipate it, then it's
okay. Then it's uh inch deep. Yeah.
Yeah.
Right. You're like, "Oh, okay. Well,
yeah, they're probably going to tell me
that the editing wasn't great or
whatever." Yeah,
but if
I have it,
avoid some of them, but guess what? I
won't avoid all of them. There will
still be someone who criticizes the
tone, what I'm wearing, how I look,
whatever it is. And as soon as you know that,
that,
you go, "Oh, that's all it is."
Someone's going to look at and be like, "Yeah, I'm not sure." And it's like,
"Yeah, I'm not sure." And it's like, "Oh, wait. Their reaction doesn't change
"Oh, wait. Their reaction doesn't change my reality." Yeah,
my reality." Yeah, like their reaction will always be
like their reaction will always be there. And I think what we're trying to
there. And I think what we're trying to do, going to your earlier point as well,
do, going to your earlier point as well, is we're trying to avoid the reaction.
is we're trying to avoid the reaction. We want to create something
We want to create something that has no negative reaction.
that has no negative reaction. And there is not a single person on
And there is not a single person on planet earth that has created a song, a
planet earth that has created a song, a movie, uh podcast or whatever it may be
movie, uh podcast or whatever it may be that has had no negative reaction. So
that has had no negative reaction. So I have so so many quick thoughts on
I have so so many quick thoughts on this. So number one is that if you do
this. So number one is that if you do nothing, people will criticize you. If
nothing, people will criticize you. If you do something, people will criticize
you do something, people will criticize you. So criticism is a fixed cost.
you. So criticism is a fixed cost. Period. Number two, it takes about 20
Period. Number two, it takes about 20 hours to become proficient in just about
hours to become proficient in just about anything. You want to play guitar like
anything. You want to play guitar like proficient in just about anything. It
proficient in just about anything. It just takes people 10 years to get the
just takes people 10 years to get the first 20 hours. And that's a huge a huge
first 20 hours. And that's a huge a huge issue. The third is that when you're
issue. The third is that when you're thinking about feedback is one, not all
thinking about feedback is one, not all feedback is created equal. You don't
feedback is created equal. You don't want to listen to the people who are
want to listen to the people who are closest to you. You want to listen to
closest to you. You want to listen to the people who are closest to your
the people who are closest to your goals. M
goals. M and so listen to the people who are
and so listen to the people who are already at your goals who already have
already at your goals who already have achieved those goals and listen to their
achieved those goals and listen to their feedback because I'll say for example
feedback because I'll say for example for me like if I if I I mean I rarely do
for me like if I if I I mean I rarely do but if I post anything of me at the gym
but if I post anything of me at the gym the only people who comment are people
the only people who comment are people who are smaller than me. No guy who is
who are smaller than me. No guy who is bigger than me ever has talked [ __ ]
bigger than me ever has talked [ __ ] about you know about my you know my
about you know about my you know my fitness stuff. Um and so to the same
fitness stuff. Um and so to the same degree anybody who's an entrep who's a
degree anybody who's an entrep who's a real entrepreneur is going to be like
real entrepreneur is going to be like hell yeah man you got out there. Oh of
hell yeah man you got out there. Oh of course you failed. I mean obviously you
course you failed. I mean obviously you failed but that's okay right? everyone
failed but that's okay right? everyone falls the first time right from uh from
falls the first time right from uh from the matrix. And so expect failure and I
the matrix. And so expect failure and I think that if you can play it out the
think that if you can play it out the there's a there's a really wonderful
there's a there's a really wonderful framework around this which is the the
framework around this which is the the frame of the veteran which is if you
frame of the veteran which is if you were to imagine whatever bad experience
were to imagine whatever bad experience occurs happening a thousand times more
occurs happening a thousand times more in a row how would you feel on the
in a row how would you feel on the thousandth time? And if that's how
thousandth time? And if that's how you're going to feel in the thousandth
you're going to feel in the thousandth time with the exact same condition, you
time with the exact same condition, you might as well feel that way today. And
might as well feel that way today. And it's just been a really like a like if
it's just been a really like a like if you're like man I hate traffic. It's a
you're like man I hate traffic. It's a Google. Let's assume traffic is a
Google. Let's assume traffic is a constant and it happens for the next
constant and it happens for the next thousand days. You'll probably be like,
thousand days. You'll probably be like, "Well, it's just how it is." Totally,
"Well, it's just how it is." Totally, right? And so, this is just how it is.
right? And so, this is just how it is. That's the feedback that you're going to
That's the feedback that you're going to get from the videos and it's going to
get from the videos and it's going to keep happening and it's okay.
keep happening and it's okay. Yeah. Your your point just now of the
Yeah. Your your point just now of the problem is it takes us 10 years to get
problem is it takes us 10 years to get the first 20 hours
the first 20 hours is so true. I know something that I've
is so true. I know something that I've because people are often like that to me
because people are often like that to me like Jay, how do you solve a problem?
like Jay, how do you solve a problem? I'm like, if I think something's a big
I'm like, if I think something's a big problem to solve or a skill to learn, I
problem to solve or a skill to learn, I will cancel every evening plan this week
will cancel every evening plan this week and I will cancel my entire weekend. And
and I will cancel my entire weekend. And all I'm doing this weekend is figuring
all I'm doing this weekend is figuring out that skill. I'll get a coach. I'll
out that skill. I'll get a coach. I'll commit to the time and I'll be around
commit to the time and I'll be around that community of people. Those are my
that community of people. Those are my three practices or things to develop a
three practices or things to develop a skill. And then this weekend is
skill. And then this weekend is dedicated to getting good at X. And it's
dedicated to getting good at X. And it's like if I don't get enough hours in this
like if I don't get enough hours in this weekend, the next four weekends are
weekend, the next four weekends are dedicated to that thing. And all of a
dedicated to that thing. And all of a sudden in a month, I've solved a problem
sudden in a month, I've solved a problem that could have taken me six years. And
that could have taken me six years. And so I love that piece of advice because I
so I love that piece of advice because I think it's it's the same advice when you
think it's it's the same advice when you give people like, "Hey, just try three
give people like, "Hey, just try three things out." And they're like, "Okay,
things out." And they're like, "Okay, I'll try three things out, one a year."
I'll try three things out, one a year." And and also when you give it 12 months
And and also when you give it 12 months to try one thing out, you actually never
to try one thing out, you actually never know. Whereas if you did something for a
know. Whereas if you did something for a whole day,
whole day, like I remember when me and my wife were
like I remember when me and my wife were in Hawaii and we both grew up in London.
in Hawaii and we both grew up in London. We never went surfing or skiing and
We never went surfing or skiing and things like this, right? We're in
things like this, right? We're in Hawaii. We try surfing. We do it the
Hawaii. We try surfing. We do it the whole day. I knew I was never going to
whole day. I knew I was never going to be a surfer and it's the last thing I
be a surfer and it's the last thing I want to do and I don't care at all about
want to do and I don't care at all about surfing. It It looks good, but it is not
surfing. It It looks good, but it is not fun to do. Like I didn't enjoy the
fun to do. Like I didn't enjoy the process. And I'm like, but if I went
process. And I'm like, but if I went like for 30 minutes one day, then I'd be
like for 30 minutes one day, then I'd be like, "Oh, well maybe I just didn't do
like, "Oh, well maybe I just didn't do it right." And then you're like, "Okay,
it right." And then you're like, "Okay, I'll go 30 minutes next year. I'll do an
I'll go 30 minutes next year. I'll do an hour next year." And so we just keep
hour next year." And so we just keep elongating the kind of failure rate or
elongating the kind of failure rate or knowing how quickly something's
knowing how quickly something's important or not.
important or not. I think it's getting completely immersed
I think it's getting completely immersed and just soaked in whatever the thing
and just soaked in whatever the thing that you're trying to pursue. So I'll
that you're trying to pursue. So I'll tell you a comparable story. So when I
tell you a comparable story. So when I was when I had my first business, I I
was when I had my first business, I I was I've never been a tech oriented
was I've never been a tech oriented person. Now I try not to speak that over
person. Now I try not to speak that over myself, but like I'm working on it. And
myself, but like I'm working on it. And so I was like, I have to learn how to
so I was like, I have to learn how to build web pages. I hate relying on these
build web pages. I hate relying on these IT guys. They're slow. They don't build
IT guys. They're slow. They don't build it the right way. And so this is right
it the right way. And so this is right as some of the early kind of softwares
as some of the early kind of softwares come out. And I had put it off. And then
come out. And I had put it off. And then I finally said, "Both days this weekend,
I finally said, "Both days this weekend, I'm locking the doors. I'm closing the
I'm locking the doors. I'm closing the the frames. I'm turning off my phone."
the frames. I'm turning off my phone." And I just had a simple page. I said,
And I just had a simple page. I said, "I'm just going to copy this page. I
"I'm just going to copy this page. I just want to see if I can figure it
just want to see if I can figure it out." And I set two full days aside and
out." And I set two full days aside and I finished it by noon.
I finished it by noon. Yeah.
Yeah. But I had put it off for weeks. And so
But I had put it off for weeks. And so most times it's almost like fear is a
most times it's almost like fear is a mile wide and an inch deep. So is
mile wide and an inch deep. So is ignorance. It's like it's more than you
ignorance. It's like it's more than you expect but less than you think. Yeah.
expect but less than you think. Yeah. Right. You get in and you're like, "Oh,
Right. You get in and you're like, "Oh, there's only four parts to this." Okay.
there's only four parts to this." Okay. I think okay, now I You want to wrap
I think okay, now I You want to wrap your arms around it. And I think that's
your arms around it. And I think that's why having these kind of longer intense
why having these kind of longer intense sessions where you kind of drink all of
sessions where you kind of drink all of it up because if you did multiple 30
it up because if you did multiple 30 minute sessions, for example, it's like
minute sessions, for example, it's like it'll take you the first 15 minutes to
it'll take you the first 15 minutes to get back into what did I just learn last
get back into what did I just learn last time? And then it just it takes very
time? And then it just it takes very it's very hard to get make progress. And
it's very hard to get make progress. And so I'm a I'm a massive advocate of full
so I'm a I'm a massive advocate of full shutdown days. I mean, drink your
shutdown days. I mean, drink your coffee, get your good night's sleep, and
coffee, get your good night's sleep, and then put your earplugs in and then like
then put your earplugs in and then like lock in.
lock in. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then the second question was why are we so
the second question was why are we so uncomfortable with selling, promoting
uncomfortable with selling, promoting ourselves, putting ourselves out there?
ourselves, putting ourselves out there? So I would put that as two two separate
So I would put that as two two separate buckets. So one is the promotion, which
buckets. So one is the promotion, which is kind of public embarrassment, public
is kind of public embarrassment, public harass, you know, that kind of Yeah. The
harass, you know, that kind of Yeah. The second one is um why am I scared to ask
second one is um why am I scared to ask this person for money? Right? And so I
this person for money? Right? And so I think on some level it comes down to
think on some level it comes down to some people feel like imposters. They're
some people feel like imposters. They're like I you know I don't deserve this and
like I you know I don't deserve this and things like that. But I think that
things like that. But I think that there's a there's a very tactical way to
there's a there's a very tactical way to overcome that which is you outwork your
overcome that which is you outwork your self-doubt. And so if you um if you've
self-doubt. And so if you um if you've done those 20 and I think it's the
done those 20 and I think it's the people who haven't done the 20 who feel
people who haven't done the 20 who feel like imposters, but if you've done it 20
like imposters, but if you've done it 20 times and you're like, I know what's
times and you're like, I know what's going to happen next and I know what
going to happen next and I know what your problem is and I also know I can
your problem is and I also know I can solve it. And so your conviction goes up
solve it. And so your conviction goes up because you're not you're not
because you're not you're not exaggerating anything. You're not
exaggerating anything. You're not puffing your chest. You're just one of
puffing your chest. You're just one of my big rules in persuasion is state the
my big rules in persuasion is state the facts and tell the truth. And so you're
facts and tell the truth. And so you're like, listen, I've done 20 of these. You
like, listen, I've done 20 of these. You have the same issues as these people.
have the same issues as these people. This is what I did for them. I think I
This is what I did for them. I think I can do the same thing for you. We're not
can do the same thing for you. We're not exaggerating. We're not claiming
exaggerating. We're not claiming anything. We're just saying like this is
anything. We're just saying like this is this is what's happened. And so I think
this is what's happened. And so I think that that will dramatically decrease the
that that will dramatically decrease the anxiety around the conversation. The
anxiety around the conversation. The second piece is the fear of like
second piece is the fear of like rejection in the micro. And so um it's
rejection in the micro. And so um it's it's always overstated because the worst
it's always overstated because the worst thing they can say is no. And then you
thing they can say is no. And then you say, "Okay, fine. No worries." Like not
say, "Okay, fine. No worries." Like not a big deal. I'll just ask somebody else,
a big deal. I'll just ask somebody else, right? Like if anything, sales is like
right? Like if anything, sales is like dating. It's a numbers game. Like you
dating. It's a numbers game. Like you have to be willing to say I would and
have to be willing to say I would and this is why I like rule of 100 a lot is
this is why I like rule of 100 a lot is have a hundred conversations and I
have a hundred conversations and I promise you your anxiety will go down
promise you your anxiety will go down because you'll just habituate. And so
because you'll just habituate. And so everyone like and this is the
everyone like and this is the psychological way of actually curing
psychological way of actually curing phobias. If you're afraid of spiders,
phobias. If you're afraid of spiders, the fastest way to cure spiders is lock
the fastest way to cure spiders is lock you in a room with spiders. You'll have
you in a room with spiders. You'll have a couple panic attacks. You'll you'll
a couple panic attacks. You'll you'll you'll pass out. You'll wake back up.
you'll pass out. You'll wake back up. The spiders are still there. You wait
The spiders are still there. You wait pass out. Wake back up and eventually
pass out. Wake back up and eventually you're just like, "All right, I'm used
you're just like, "All right, I'm used to it." Yeah.
It's because they've done this before. And so we just have to get you to the
And so we just have to get you to the we've done this before part as fast as
we've done this before part as fast as we can.
we can. Yeah. What about people who feel like
Yeah. What about people who feel like the approaches are manipulative, okay?
the approaches are manipulative, okay? Or these tactics are like you're preying
Or these tactics are like you're preying on someone's vulnerabilities and
on someone's vulnerabilities and insecurities and of course that person
insecurities and of course that person wants to lose weight for their partner
wants to lose weight for their partner and you're playing to that. Like what
and you're playing to that. Like what about someone who feels that way and
about someone who feels that way and that's what gets in their head like oh I
that's what gets in their head like oh I know I have a valuable service. I know I
know I have a valuable service. I know I want to help people but actually like
want to help people but actually like they should want to do it themselves.
they should want to do it themselves. I'm not going to convince them.
I'm not going to convince them. So I'm going to I'll define two things.
So I'm going to I'll define two things. So one I see the process of selling as
So one I see the process of selling as arranging the variables to increase the
arranging the variables to increase the likelihood a sale occurs. That is a
likelihood a sale occurs. That is a selling process. And so we want to use
selling process. And so we want to use all the variables we can because if we
all the variables we can because if we can control the variables we control the
can control the variables we control the outcome. And so I see then underneath of
outcome. And so I see then underneath of that the difference between help and
that the difference between help and manipulation is intention. And so you
manipulation is intention. And so you use the exact same uh variables to
use the exact same uh variables to influence someone's purchasing decision.
influence someone's purchasing decision. But if your intention is to scam them
But if your intention is to scam them out of money and not help them, then for
out of money and not help them, then for sure you should I hope you feel all the
sure you should I hope you feel all the feelings that you have right now. But on
feelings that you have right now. But on the flip side, if you're if you know
the flip side, if you're if you know that you're going to do your absolute
that you're going to do your absolute best and and you've not misrepresented
best and and you've not misrepresented something. And I think this is the key
something. And I think this is the key part where people feel the imposter
part where people feel the imposter syndrome is because they misrepresent.
syndrome is because they misrepresent. If you state the facts and tell the
If you state the facts and tell the truth, most of your anxiety goes away.
truth, most of your anxiety goes away. And I have this conversation sometimes
And I have this conversation sometimes with entrepreneurs even at a million
with entrepreneurs even at a million dollar a year, $5 million a year. And
dollar a year, $5 million a year. And they're like, I just feel this imposter
they're like, I just feel this imposter syndrome with my business and I'll say,
syndrome with my business and I'll say, "Are you stating anything that's not
"Are you stating anything that's not true?" And then they'll kind of look at
true?" And then they'll kind of look at me and they're like, "Well, you know, I
me and they're like, "Well, you know, I teach agencies how to, you know, grow
teach agencies how to, you know, grow their customer base." And I'm like,
their customer base." And I'm like, "Okay, and why do you feel like an
"Okay, and why do you feel like an imposttor?" They're like, "Well, you
imposttor?" They're like, "Well, you know, I had an agency and it just really
know, I had an agency and it just really wasn't that successful." And I'm like,
wasn't that successful." And I'm like, "Okay, are your clients successful?"
"Okay, are your clients successful?" They're like, "No, the clients are
They're like, "No, the clients are successful." I'm like, "Okay, so what do
successful." I'm like, "Okay, so what do you teach them that you were not able to
you teach them that you were not able to do for yourself?" And they're like,
do for yourself?" And they're like, "Well, I was actually just really good
"Well, I was actually just really good at the sales side. I was really bad at
at the sales side. I was really bad at the delivery side." I said, "If you just
the delivery side." I said, "If you just say, "Hey, I had an agency. I was really
say, "Hey, I had an agency. I was really good at selling customers, really bad at
good at selling customers, really bad at delivering on them, but if you're good
delivering on them, but if you're good at delivering on them and you need a
at delivering on them and you need a sales process, I can help you." I was
sales process, I can help you." I was like, "Would you feel like you're being
like, "Would you feel like you're being an imposttor?" He's like, "No." I was
an imposttor?" He's like, "No." I was like, "And believe it or not, that's
like, "And believe it or not, that's actually more compelling because you
actually more compelling because you have a damaging admission, which
have a damaging admission, which actually makes you it's one of the
actually makes you it's one of the components of persuasion, right? Like
components of persuasion, right? Like you just just tell people all the things
you just just tell people all the things that are not good because when you tell
that are not good because when you tell them the good things, they'll actually
them the good things, they'll actually believe them more." And so I would tell,
believe them more." And so I would tell, you know, I was in the gym space for a
you know, I was in the gym space for a while and so, you know, a gym owner
while and so, you know, a gym owner would have, you know, a bad location and
would have, you know, a bad location and bad parking. And they're like, you know,
bad parking. And they're like, you know, I I don't I don't it's it's
I I don't I don't it's it's embarrassing. And I say, include it in
embarrassing. And I say, include it in the ad. Just say, hey, by the way, we
the ad. Just say, hey, by the way, we have the uh we don't have the newest
have the uh we don't have the newest equipment. Uh our parking is terrible.
equipment. Uh our parking is terrible. We have a tiny location, but we have the
We have a tiny location, but we have the best workouts on this side of the
best workouts on this side of the Mississippi. Right? And if you say that,
Mississippi. Right? And if you say that, then it's like people are like, I love
then it's like people are like, I love that guy, right? Because he told the
that guy, right? Because he told the truth. And so you'll be significantly
truth. And so you'll be significantly more persuasive and have less anxiety by
more persuasive and have less anxiety by just stating the facts and tell the
just stating the facts and tell the truth. And if the facts aren't
truth. And if the facts aren't compelling enough, do the free work so
compelling enough, do the free work so the facts are compelling.
the facts are compelling. Yeah. Oh, I love that so much because
Yeah. Oh, I love that so much because I'm thinking of a friend right now who
I'm thinking of a friend right now who has a service he offers and he's always
has a service he offers and he's always scared that he's a one-man band and he's
scared that he's a one-man band and he's scared that companies are going to ask
scared that companies are going to ask for a service and he's almost
for a service and he's almost embarrassed of saying,
embarrassed of saying, well, I'm just one guy
well, I'm just one guy and he wants to present himself as a
and he wants to present himself as a company.
company. And I'm always saying to him, well, no,
And I'm always saying to him, well, no, tell them because you're one guy, you
tell them because you're one guy, you can actually be there. You're present.
can actually be there. You're present. You're doing all the work yourself.
You're doing all the work yourself. You're committed. you're not just
You're committed. you're not just rolling out something that everyone else
rolling out something that everyone else is doing.
is doing. So, I have I have an awesome frame for
So, I have I have an awesome frame for this. So, when we had our software
this. So, when we had our software company, Allen, which we sold in 21, uh
company, Allen, which we sold in 21, uh it was a software that helped uh
it was a software that helped uh agencies kind of manage schedules. It
agencies kind of manage schedules. It did automated texting stuff back before
did automated texting stuff back before all the new stuff now, right? And so, um
all the new stuff now, right? And so, um I actually had agencies that sold to gym
I actually had agencies that sold to gym owners and I obviously also owned Gym
owners and I obviously also owned Gym Launch at the time, too, which is which
Launch at the time, too, which is which is the category, you know, king in that
is the category, you know, king in that space, right? It's the biggest company
space, right? It's the biggest company there. And so, they were like, "How do
there. And so, they were like, "How do we how do we compete against you?" And I
we how do we compete against you?" And I said, "Every position has an advantage."
said, "Every position has an advantage." And so you are going to say, "Man, Alex,
And so you are going to say, "Man, Alex, Alex isn't going to be the one take, you
Alex isn't going to be the one take, you know, he's not the one taking your
know, he's not the one taking your calls. He's just going to you're going
calls. He's just going to you're going to be client number 77. He's not even
to be client number 77. He's not even going to know your name. You're going to
going to know your name. You're going to be assigned to some account rep that he
be assigned to some account rep that he pays, you know, nothing to." And of
pays, you know, nothing to." And of course, we paid well, but like I don't
course, we paid well, but like I don't know, you know, he just pays way less.
know, you know, he just pays way less. Um that he onboarded in two days. Uh and
Um that he onboarded in two days. Uh and like that's the level of service you're
like that's the level of service you're going to get. Whereas with me, you get
going to get. Whereas with me, you get the highest person. and you get the CEO
the highest person. and you get the CEO and you call me, I'll respond
and you call me, I'll respond immediately. I'm the one working your
immediately. I'm the one working your account. So, don't compare Jim the size
account. So, don't compare Jim the size of Gym Launch to the size of my company.
of Gym Launch to the size of my company. Compare the person you're actually going
Compare the person you're actually going to work with. And am I going to be
to work with. And am I going to be better than his rep number seven? Yes.
better than his rep number seven? Yes. That's a compelling pitch. Now, if I'm
That's a compelling pitch. Now, if I'm flipping the table, I'm going to say,
flipping the table, I'm going to say, "Listen, this guy's in his mom's
"Listen, this guy's in his mom's basement. He hasn't proven any track
basement. He hasn't proven any track record. We've been here for 10 years,
record. We've been here for 10 years, and the reason we've been here for 10
and the reason we've been here for 10 years, and we've gotten so big, is
years, and we've gotten so big, is because we're actually good at what we
because we're actually good at what we do. And if we weren't good at what we
do. And if we weren't good at what we do, we wouldn't be this big, and we
do, we wouldn't be this big, and we wouldn't been doing it for this long.
wouldn't been doing it for this long. This guy has no process. He might be
This guy has no process. He might be gone tomorrow." We both have advantages
gone tomorrow." We both have advantages that we can cater. So there's no
that we can cater. So there's no position on the board that doesn't have
position on the board that doesn't have advantage. You just got to play what you
advantage. You just got to play what you got. Again, rule number one, right?
got. Again, rule number one, right? Yeah. And and and the idea of pointing
Yeah. And and and the idea of pointing it out.
it out. Yeah.
Yeah. Is just so masterful because that's
Is just so masterful because that's what's blocking us. It takes away we're
what's blocking us. It takes away we're all trying to be everything to everyone
all trying to be everything to everyone and we want to portray that we've
and we want to portray that we've thought about every part of the puzzle
thought about every part of the puzzle and we're the one-stop shop. And I feel
and we're the one-stop shop. And I feel like whenever anyone says they're the
like whenever anyone says they're the one-stop shop,
one-stop shop, there's nothing there, right? Because
there's nothing there, right? Because it's like, well, wait a minute. There's
it's like, well, wait a minute. There's no way you could have figured out
no way you could have figured out this and this and this and this and this
this and this and this and this and this with just you.
with just you. With just you and you've been in the
With just you and you've been in the business for two years, right? Like it's
business for two years, right? Like it's it's just not possible. And so and
it's just not possible. And so and that's so freeing. Like I'm hoping
that's so freeing. Like I'm hoping people hear that and just feel so much
people hear that and just feel so much lighter and go tell the truth, state the
lighter and go tell the truth, state the facts, and and that's it. You know,
facts, and and that's it. You know, if they say no, that's okay. Because
if they say no, that's okay. Because honestly, if they say no, then they
honestly, if they say no, then they weren't going to be a fit.
weren't going to be a fit. Yeah. And so I can promise you some of
Yeah. And so I can promise you some of the best deals are the ones you never do
the best deals are the ones you never do because right now any business owner can
because right now any business owner can tell you this like there are customers
tell you this like there are customers that you're like I wish we did not ever
that you're like I wish we did not ever talk to this person, right? And so like
talk to this person, right? And so like you're just avoiding some of these
you're just avoiding some of these things that are going to be calamities
things that are going to be calamities later. So you might as well just get it
later. So you might as well just get it up front. And the thing is is that when
up front. And the thing is is that when you set those expectations, it just it
you set those expectations, it just it creates such a clean relationship from
creates such a clean relationship from there on. It's like these are the
there on. It's like these are the expectations you can set. This is what I
expectations you can set. This is what I will do. Anything outside of that, I'm
will do. Anything outside of that, I'm not going to pretend like I have done
not going to pretend like I have done it. Now if we want to figure this out,
it. Now if we want to figure this out, I'll be figuring it out with you. and if
I'll be figuring it out with you. and if you if you like the stuff I have here, I
you if you like the stuff I have here, I can apply some of those principles, but
can apply some of those principles, but I haven't done it. I want to be upfront
I haven't done it. I want to be upfront about that. And so, where's the imposter
about that. And so, where's the imposter syndrome? Where's the fear? It's like
syndrome? Where's the fear? It's like there shouldn't be any. And it's all
there shouldn't be any. And it's all about the deception piece. And I think
about the deception piece. And I think that's where that's where people get in
that's where that's where people get in trouble.
trouble. Yeah. The other thing I've learned about
Yeah. The other thing I've learned about that is that I feel like people who win
that is that I feel like people who win watch winners. Yeah.
watch winners. Yeah. And people who fail watch losers.
And people who fail watch losers. And so when I look online or even if I
And so when I look online or even if I talk to people that I get a lot of this
talk to people that I get a lot of this where people be like, I can't believe
where people be like, I can't believe this guy has like 100,000 followers.
this guy has like 100,000 followers. Like, have you seen his stuff? it just
Like, have you seen his stuff? it just sucks. Like, oh, I can't believe that
sucks. Like, oh, I can't believe that this guy like has a business making a
this guy like has a business making a million dollars. Like, I mean, he hasn't
million dollars. Like, I mean, he hasn't even got, you know, and so there's a lot
even got, you know, and so there's a lot of this where you find people who are
of this where you find people who are not winning are constantly whereas like
not winning are constantly whereas like I'm sure if me and you were talking
I'm sure if me and you were talking about something like dude, did you see
about something like dude, did you see what this guy did? That's amazing. Like,
what this guy did? That's amazing. Like, do you see what you know, whatever? And
do you see what you know, whatever? And and so I feel like there's that ideology
and so I feel like there's that ideology that we get stuck in where we're like, I
that we get stuck in where we're like, I know I'm better than that guy or
know I'm better than that guy or whoever, that girl, whatever it is. I
whoever, that girl, whatever it is. I know I'm better, but I'm not doing
know I'm better, but I'm not doing anything about it. And that hurts me
anything about it. And that hurts me even more.
even more. Can I tell you a story about this?
Can I tell you a story about this? Yeah.
Yeah. So, I know I think you've had um Kylie
So, I know I think you've had um Kylie Jenner on this.
Jenner on this. Not Kylie. I've had
Not Kylie. I've had You have a Kendall. You've had Kendall.
You have a Kendall. You've had Kendall. Kendra.
Kendra. Well, I'll then I'll tell you the story.
Well, I'll then I'll tell you the story. So,
So, Oh, I know the Kylie story from you.
Oh, I know the Kylie story from you. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. When she
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. When she became a billionaire. Yeah. Yeah. I've
became a billionaire. Yeah. Yeah. I've watched the video, man. I'm in, man. I'm
watched the video, man. I'm in, man. I'm in your content. I'm there. I'm there.
in your content. I'm there. I'm there. So, Kylie became a billionaire. I'm
So, Kylie became a billionaire. I'm 27ish at the time and I'm making I'd say
27ish at the time and I'm making I'd say very good money and I thought I was I
very good money and I thought I was I was, you know, the the man, right? And
was, you know, the the man, right? And then here comes this girl who's seven,
then here comes this girl who's seven, eight years younger than me and she's
eight years younger than me and she's crushing, you know, she crushed it and
crushing, you know, she crushed it and she was better she was better than I
she was better she was better than I was. And I and I, you know, my first
was. And I and I, you know, my first response was ego being like, "Hey, Chris
response was ego being like, "Hey, Chris Jenner is her mom. She's had her life
Jenner is her mom. She's had her life set up since day one. She's been on
set up since day one. She's been on reality TV for, you know, I had all that
reality TV for, you know, I had all that all that narrative." And then underneath
all that narrative." And then underneath of that, I was like, chill. What can I
of that, I was like, chill. What can I learn from her? Right? And so I have the
learn from her? Right? And so I have the fundamental belief that if someone makes
fundamental belief that if someone makes more money than you, they know something
more money than you, they know something that you don't know. And in that, you
that you don't know. And in that, you can learn of them. And I think that that
can learn of them. And I think that that allows every single person in the world
allows every single person in the world success to serve you.
success to serve you. Yeah.
Yeah. Literally, you just flip the world into
Literally, you just flip the world into like these are all the different lessons
like these are all the different lessons I can learn from all these people. And I
I can learn from all these people. And I think um one of my it's the sword of
think um one of my it's the sword of Gryffindor, but I love this quote that
Gryffindor, but I love this quote that was on it.
was on it. I love Harry Potter. Yeah.
I love Harry Potter. Yeah. Um, but it was made of, you know, goblin
Um, but it was made of, you know, goblin steel or dwarf steel and it was it only
steel or dwarf steel and it was it only took that which made it stronger.
took that which made it stronger. And so you know in no way makes you
And so you know in no way makes you stronger and you trying to point out all
stronger and you trying to point out all the deficiencies. It's like you're you
the deficiencies. It's like you're you are the thing that you are afraid of for
are the thing that you are afraid of for yourself. Like you're you're going to
yourself. Like you're you're going to point out all this person's deficiencies
point out all this person's deficiencies and your big fear is about the fact that
and your big fear is about the fact that other people want to do that to you. So
other people want to do that to you. So first start by stop doing it to other
first start by stop doing it to other people and start trying to find what are
people and start trying to find what are the things that they are because the
the things that they are because the thing is is it is a fact. They are
thing is is it is a fact. They are better than you at something. And I
better than you at something. And I think like you have to accept that as
think like you have to accept that as much as you're like that guy's got
much as you're like that guy's got 100,000 followers. Well, and he only had
100,000 followers. Well, and he only had one viral video. It's like, well, he's
one viral video. It's like, well, he's got one more than you do.
got one more than you do. Yeah.
Yeah. What was it about that video now? Let's
What was it about that video now? Let's start tackling that. Um, and so like
start tackling that. Um, and so like from Kylie, the thing that I learned was
from Kylie, the thing that I learned was brand. I was like, she's got a big
brand. I was like, she's got a big brand. And then I was like, okay, I need
brand. And then I was like, okay, I need to start looking at that. And that's
to start looking at that. And that's what that's what kicked off this entire
what that's what kicked off this entire journey for me even making all this
journey for me even making all this content stuff was that Forbes cover.
content stuff was that Forbes cover. Yeah.
Yeah. That was like that was the thing for me.
That was like that was the thing for me. And so, you know, Kylie, if you ever
And so, you know, Kylie, if you ever watch this, like you're a huge influence
watch this, like you're a huge influence in my life.
in my life. I love that. We'll get it. We'll get it.
I love that. We'll get it. We'll get it. I love that. And and what I like about
I love that. And and what I like about that is that criticism doesn't cure
that is that criticism doesn't cure envy.
envy. Yeah.
Yeah. And also success doesn't cure envy. It's
And also success doesn't cure envy. It's only study that kills envy. Like that
only study that kills envy. Like that appreciation, that admiration, that's
appreciation, that admiration, that's the only thing. And envy is that thing
the only thing. And envy is that thing that when when I coach people and I've
that when when I coach people and I've been fortunate enough to coach
been fortunate enough to coach musicians and actors and whatever.
musicians and actors and whatever. And there's two questions I always ask
And there's two questions I always ask people is the first thing is who do you
people is the first thing is who do you envy?
envy? And there is no person on the planet
And there is no person on the planet even in the 0.001% 001% who doesn't envy
even in the 0.001% 001% who doesn't envy someone that I've that I've met at least
someone that I've that I've met at least and then the second one is who's your
and then the second one is who's your god or what is your god whether it's
god or what is your god whether it's money time energy whatever it is
money time energy whatever it is and and those two questions sum it up
and and those two questions sum it up for people and what I found is that
for people and what I found is that success just doesn't take away envy so
success just doesn't take away envy so even if you had become a billionaire in
even if you had become a billionaire in the next 12 months
the next 12 months that still wouldn't have taken it away
that still wouldn't have taken it away because she did it at 21 and you did it
because she did it at 21 and you did it younger I can tell you
younger I can tell you yeah exactly and so it's like that
yeah exactly and so it's like that that's what's so fascinating about it is
that's what's so fascinating about it is that we You become successful by what
that we You become successful by what you get, but you become fulfilled by
you get, but you become fulfilled by what you lose. And losing envy and
what you lose. And losing envy and losing comparison and losing criticism
losing comparison and losing criticism leads to happiness. So when people say
leads to happiness. So when people say money doesn't buy happiness, it's not
money doesn't buy happiness, it's not that money is not important. Money makes
that money is not important. Money makes you successful and it's great. You
you successful and it's great. You should get it.
should get it. Happiness was never in the equation with
Happiness was never in the equation with money. That wasn't the point of it. Like
money. That wasn't the point of it. Like I love having awards and accolades, but
I love having awards and accolades, but they were never in the equation of
they were never in the equation of happiness. They were in the equation of
happiness. They were in the equation of success. And the equation of happiness
success. And the equation of happiness was envy, ego, illusion, lust, anger,
was envy, ego, illusion, lust, anger, all of this stuff. And so it's funny how
all of this stuff. And so it's funny how the equations get like, you know,
the equations get like, you know, crossed over.
crossed over. Yeah. Oh, I I just I loved everything
Yeah. Oh, I I just I loved everything that you
that you No, I just it really resonates hearing
No, I just it really resonates hearing about it from your story and also just
about it from your story and also just like breaking it down for people and
like breaking it down for people and making it really simple and going like,
making it really simple and going like, let's stop demonizing people who are
let's stop demonizing people who are selling well or making money and doing
selling well or making money and doing this thing because it it leads to a
this thing because it it leads to a certain part of the puzzle. But then
certain part of the puzzle. But then let's also remember that you wouldn't be
let's also remember that you wouldn't be who you are today if you hadn't got over
who you are today if you hadn't got over that envy right at the beginning.
that envy right at the beginning. So let me toss this in that I think
So let me toss this in that I think might be helpful.
might be helpful. So one of the quotes that I don't like
So one of the quotes that I don't like is comparison is the thief of joy. And
is comparison is the thief of joy. And I'll explain why
I'll explain why because I so I think comparison is
because I so I think comparison is incredibly valuable feedback tool. Now
incredibly valuable feedback tool. Now what we want to be clear is the
what we want to be clear is the differentiation between criticism and
differentiation between criticism and insults. And so insults are attack on
insults. And so insults are attack on someone's character saying and I'll give
someone's character saying and I'll give you an example. And a criticism is the
you an example. And a criticism is the difference between uh expected and
difference between uh expected and reality, right? Or desired and actual.
reality, right? Or desired and actual. So uh I expect you to be on time and you
So uh I expect you to be on time and you are 5 minutes late. Okay, cool. So I
are 5 minutes late. Okay, cool. So I say, "Hey, you were 5 minutes late. This
say, "Hey, you were 5 minutes late. This was the expectation. This is what
was the expectation. This is what happened." That is criticism, right?
happened." That is criticism, right? Insult. And you're lazy. And so um if we
Insult. And you're lazy. And so um if we can pull those things apart, we can take
can pull those things apart, we can take the good of because I I think our brains
the good of because I I think our brains are comparison brains. Like it's how we
are comparison brains. Like it's how we how we orient ourselves in the world.
how we orient ourselves in the world. Where am I? and very tough. Maybe years
Where am I? and very tough. Maybe years and years of of of monk study can maybe
and years of of of monk study can maybe get you out of it, but I think for the
get you out of it, but I think for the vast majority of people, comparison is
vast majority of people, comparison is is going to be fixed in their brain. And
is going to be fixed in their brain. And so it's like we want to use that. We
so it's like we want to use that. We want to use that skill of learning to to
want to use that skill of learning to to point out the discrepancy between where
point out the discrepancy between where they are and where I am so that I can
they are and where I am so that I can create steps so that I can get better. I
create steps so that I can get better. I want to completely eliminate and erase
want to completely eliminate and erase insults. And also on the flip side, if
insults. And also on the flip side, if someone insults me, um this is a a side
someone insults me, um this is a a side note, but like if the big fear that many
note, but like if the big fear that many people have on promoting or selling is
people have on promoting or selling is that someone's gonna say something bad
that someone's gonna say something bad about them
about them and so that they're going to get
and so that they're going to get insulted. And the biggest reframe that's
insulted. And the biggest reframe that's been helpful for me is simply
been helpful for me is simply translating all hate or insults into he
translating all hate or insults into he lives his life in a way that I would not
lives his life in a way that I would not prefer.
prefer. And it just comes down to that. I can't
And it just comes down to that. I can't believe he's he's married to this
believe he's he's married to this person. He makes this kind of why does
person. He makes this kind of why does he think he like he lives his life in a
he think he like he lives his life in a way that I would not prefer? And that is
way that I would not prefer? And that is just it has really boiled a lot of the
just it has really boiled a lot of the the hatred down to like oh well I mean
the hatred down to like oh well I mean you live your life in a way that I would
you live your life in a way that I would not prefer and that's fine. That's why
not prefer and that's fine. That's why you life my life and hey
you life my life and hey more power to you man. Uh and that has
more power to you man. Uh and that has just like really quelled a lot of the
just like really quelled a lot of the concern because I'm sure uh like you I
concern because I'm sure uh like you I get an unending you know deluge of of
get an unending you know deluge of of hate comments just because if you put
hate comments just because if you put yourself out there like if again if you
yourself out there like if again if you do nothing you will get criticized for
do nothing you will get criticized for doing nothing and if you do something
doing nothing and if you do something you'll get criticized. So criticism is a
you'll get criticized. So criticism is a fact. It is a fixed cost.
fact. It is a fixed cost. Yeah. And and yeah and that's why like I
Yeah. And and yeah and that's why like I I agree with you on the comparison point
I agree with you on the comparison point and that's why I look at
and that's why I look at comparison as two kind of brothers study
comparison as two kind of brothers study and envy
and envy and so that's that's the choice you have
and so that's that's the choice you have like we have to compare comparison is a
like we have to compare comparison is a fixed like you're going to compare
fixed like you're going to compare because the brain is wired that way and
because the brain is wired that way and it's either I compare myself with envy
it's either I compare myself with envy or study and those are my two choices
or study and those are my two choices I'm going to compare and so this idea of
I'm going to compare and so this idea of never comparing yourself to anyone
never comparing yourself to anyone is actually a lie and a myth in and of
is actually a lie and a myth in and of itself because if you never compared
itself because if you never compared yourself to anyone you wouldn't have
yourself to anyone you wouldn't have goals you wouldn't aspire for anything.
goals you wouldn't aspire for anything. You wouldn't become better.
You wouldn't become better. There's no feedback because you can't
There's no feedback because you can't say, well, this is where I was and this
say, well, this is where I was and this is what hap like that is a comparison.
is what hap like that is a comparison. And so I would I say that because one of
And so I would I say that because one of the things we have is feedback is fuel,
the things we have is feedback is fuel, right? And so it's like I want as much
right? And so it's like I want as much fuel as I can.
fuel as I can. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that's that's
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that's that's such a you know, you've said the word
such a you know, you've said the word feedback's come up so many times today
feedback's come up so many times today where you mentioned it so many times and
where you mentioned it so many times and to to see feedback as fuel is the only
to to see feedback as fuel is the only way to have an iterative constantly
way to have an iterative constantly evolving process. And I find that, you
evolving process. And I find that, you know, there's the famous quote from
know, there's the famous quote from Albert Einstein where he said, "Insanity
Albert Einstein where he said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over
is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result."
again expecting a different result." And feedback is the way you don't do the
And feedback is the way you don't do the same thing over and over again. You can
same thing over and over again. You can change it every time.
change it every time. But so many of us keep doing something
But so many of us keep doing something even when it doesn't work,
even when it doesn't work, hoping for that different outcome.
hoping for that different outcome. Why?
Why? We don't change the email copy. We don't
We don't change the email copy. We don't post at a different cadence. We don't up
post at a different cadence. We don't up the volume. We It's just like we're
the volume. We It's just like we're just, you know, I've got so many
just, you know, I've got so many friends. We'll upload a video, delete a
friends. We'll upload a video, delete a video, upload, you know, it's like we
video, upload, you know, it's like we don't change that and then we're still
don't change that and then we're still going, wait a minute, what's going on
going, wait a minute, what's going on here?
here? So my worldview on why anyone does
So my worldview on why anyone does anything is that they've been rewarded
anything is that they've been rewarded for doing that in the past.
for doing that in the past. And so, you know, one of the one of the
And so, you know, one of the one of the really difficult things with language in
really difficult things with language in general is that there's descriptive and
general is that there's descriptive and explanatory language. And so, for
explanatory language. And so, for example, I'll give the simplest example.
example, I'll give the simplest example. you know, Timmy stole a bike uh because
you know, Timmy stole a bike uh because he is dishonest. Okay. Well, if we
he is dishonest. Okay. Well, if we define dishonest, we would say, well,
define dishonest, we would say, well, dishonest people steal things. But
dishonest people steal things. But that's a circular definition. It doesn't
that's a circular definition. It doesn't actually help. The explanation of why
actually help. The explanation of why did he actually steal it is because he's
did he actually steal it is because he's been rewarded for stealing in the past
been rewarded for stealing in the past and so he repeated that that action
and so he repeated that that action because it got him something good. And
because it got him something good. And same thing goes for lying. Same thing
same thing goes for lying. Same thing goes for cheating. All of these things
goes for cheating. All of these things like why does someone do it? It's like
like why does someone do it? It's like because they've been rewarded for doing
because they've been rewarded for doing so in the past. They've been reinforced.
so in the past. They've been reinforced. And so why do people Yeah. Why do people
And so why do people Yeah. Why do people uh do anything that is and and you know
uh do anything that is and and you know my worldview is somewhat different than
my worldview is somewhat different than I think many people's because I come
I think many people's because I come from everything from a behaviorist
from everything from a behaviorist perspective but it has made me
perspective but it has made me significantly better at business because
significantly better at business because I get better at predicting behavior. And
I get better at predicting behavior. And so um I'll give you a simple example. So
so um I'll give you a simple example. So um you know there was an exec at you
um you know there was an exec at you know one of the companies uh and I was
know one of the companies uh and I was talking to one of the other owners and
talking to one of the other owners and they were like hey you know I I this guy
they were like hey you know I I this guy said that he would leave if we changed
said that he would leave if we changed the his title or whatever. And I said,
the his title or whatever. And I said, 'Okay, well, how many times have you
'Okay, well, how many times have you changed his title uh historically? And
changed his title uh historically? And he said, 'Ly of times. And I said,
he said, 'Ly of times. And I said, 'Okay, has he ever left?' And the answer
'Okay, has he ever left?' And the answer was no. I said, 'So based on his history
was no. I said, 'So based on his history of behavior, I would say that he says
of behavior, I would say that he says these things to decrease the likely that
these things to decrease the likely that you do it because that's his preference,
you do it because that's his preference, but the likelihood that he quits as a
but the likelihood that he quits as a result is low. And so it's like those
result is low. And so it's like those kind of deconstructions, some people
kind of deconstructions, some people just take things at face value. It's
just take things at face value. It's like, well, if we look, if we actually
like, well, if we look, if we actually try and find the explanation rather than
try and find the explanation rather than the description of the event, we can get
the description of the event, we can get way better predicting behavior,
way better predicting behavior, including our own. And I think that's
including our own. And I think that's where like people like I want to get
where like people like I want to get back to the the the trauma of whatever
back to the the the trauma of whatever it's like maybe like can I go to this
it's like maybe like can I go to this because I think this this might be
because I think this this might be helpful.
helpful. So um
So um I love the direction you go.
I love the direction you go. Okay. So many people will will use
Okay. So many people will will use trauma or some event and they will
trauma or some event and they will create a narrative around why why
create a narrative around why why haven't I started? It's because my dad
haven't I started? It's because my dad didn't hug me enough as a kid and I
didn't hug me enough as a kid and I don't have this confidence. And so they
don't have this confidence. And so they just create this big story and then
just create this big story and then they're like, I need to go see a
they're like, I need to go see a therapist so that I can, you know,
therapist so that I can, you know, untangle all of this. But if I were to
untangle all of this. But if I were to say, hey, I'm going to teach you how to
say, hey, I'm going to teach you how to how to serve in pickle ball, right? We
how to serve in pickle ball, right? We wouldn't have the first session be, hey,
wouldn't have the first session be, hey, go do a serve. And then you would serve,
go do a serve. And then you would serve, not ideally if I'm a pickle ball coach,
not ideally if I'm a pickle ball coach, right? And then I'd say, okay, so for
right? And then I'd say, okay, so for the next, you know, few weeks, what
the next, you know, few weeks, what we're going to do is we're going to try
we're going to do is we're going to try and go back in the past and we're going
and go back in the past and we're going to try and figure out why your serve is
to try and figure out why your serve is so bad. And no, we're just going to say,
so bad. And no, we're just going to say, change your wrist like this. this is how
change your wrist like this. this is how you do it. And so it's so much more
you do it. And so it's so much more productive to just focus on what do we
productive to just focus on what do we need to do instead rather than trying to
need to do instead rather than trying to figure out uh why you did it because the
figure out uh why you did it because the reality is you're never going to know.
reality is you're never going to know. It's a convenient narrative and it might
It's a convenient narrative and it might make sense but at the same time it could
make sense but at the same time it could just be that you rewarded for doing
just be that you rewarded for doing something like this in the past period.
something like this in the past period. Now there might have been conditions
Now there might have been conditions that created that reward and you can
that created that reward and you can lament the person but at the end of the
lament the person but at the end of the day the only thing you can do about it
day the only thing you can do about it is change behavior. And so um trauma
is change behavior. And so um trauma which is tossed around a lot um I define
which is tossed around a lot um I define as uh a permanent change in behavior
as uh a permanent change in behavior from an aversive stimulus from a bad
from an aversive stimulus from a bad thing. So you permanently change how you
thing. So you permanently change how you act because of something bad that
act because of something bad that happened. Now the question is is trauma
happened. Now the question is is trauma bad? Well did the change in behavior
bad? Well did the change in behavior result in increase or decrease in
result in increase or decrease in likelihood of achieving whatever goal we
likelihood of achieving whatever goal we have. And so if a kid touches a hot
have. And so if a kid touches a hot stove and they say ouch and then they
stove and they say ouch and then they never touch hot stoves again then that
never touch hot stoves again then that was a traumatic event by that definition
was a traumatic event by that definition and it's probably good trauma because
and it's probably good trauma because they never touch hot stoves again. So
they never touch hot stoves again. So decrease the likeli they die in a fire.
decrease the likeli they die in a fire. Great. And so sometimes it's like well
Great. And so sometimes it's like well then maybe we can be grateful for some
then maybe we can be grateful for some of the quote traumas that we've had
of the quote traumas that we've had because it permanently changed my
because it permanently changed my behavior in a good way. Now if we have
behavior in a good way. Now if we have quote trauma that that uh permanently
quote trauma that that uh permanently changed my behavior in a negative way.
changed my behavior in a negative way. So I had you know bombs and saw someone
So I had you know bombs and saw someone die in front of me and the next time I
die in front of me and the next time I hear a loud noise I you know I freak out
hear a loud noise I you know I freak out and I can't you know perform my job.
and I can't you know perform my job. Then that would be something that
Then that would be something that decreases the likelihood. But then at
decreases the likelihood. But then at that point rather than trying to figure
that point rather than trying to figure out the triggering event in the past we
out the triggering event in the past we just think okay how can we recondition
just think okay how can we recondition this person under similar conditions so
this person under similar conditions so that they can act this way instead. And
that they can act this way instead. And so trauma what it ends up happening is
so trauma what it ends up happening is it becomes an accelerated learning
it becomes an accelerated learning event. And so something bad happens your
event. And so something bad happens your brain's like pay attention because it's
brain's like pay attention because it's like I'm going to learn and you're I'm
like I'm going to learn and you're I'm going to permanently change our behavior
going to permanently change our behavior to make sure this doesn't happen again.
to make sure this doesn't happen again. And so it's not this and I hear this
And so it's not this and I hear this because a lot of people will
because a lot of people will anthropomorphize uh you know make human
anthropomorphize uh you know make human or you know try and bi biologize um
or you know try and bi biologize um that's a word go for it
that's a word go for it um something that occurs it's like it's
um something that occurs it's like it's stored in your body and I was like we're
stored in your body and I was like we're not computers right it's just that you
not computers right it's just that you have a behavior set and all we have to
have a behavior set and all we have to do is change these behaviors and then it
do is change these behaviors and then it eliminates and so um the reason so this
eliminates and so um the reason so this all started with feedback and so the
all started with feedback and so the reason feedback is fuel and what makes
reason feedback is fuel and what makes feedback good versus bad or rather
feedback good versus bad or rather useful versus non-useful is the latency
useful versus non-useful is the latency of the feedback, how quickly do you get
of the feedback, how quickly do you get it, and how specific is it? And so if
it, and how specific is it? And so if you say, "Hey, that sucked in the
you say, "Hey, that sucked in the moment." That not helpful. I will be
moment." That not helpful. I will be less, what it will do is make me less
less, what it will do is make me less likely to do the thing in front of you.
likely to do the thing in front of you. Right? If you said that
Right? If you said that on the flip side, if you were to say
on the flip side, if you were to say immediately, hey, real quick, when you
immediately, hey, real quick, when you do your intro, raise your tone a little
do your intro, raise your tone a little bit at the end because I think it'll
bit at the end because I think it'll actually create more curiosity and
actually create more curiosity and people want to stay longer. Okay, do the
people want to stay longer. Okay, do the intro again. There, I have a very
intro again. There, I have a very specific piece of feedback and I did it
specific piece of feedback and I did it immediately so that the likelihood that
immediately so that the likelihood that you change behavior is really high and
you change behavior is really high and maybe that it sticks. And so the reason
maybe that it sticks. And so the reason feedback is full and ideally if you're
feedback is full and ideally if you're trying to change someone else's behavior
trying to change someone else's behavior or even your own, it's like I want to
or even your own, it's like I want to seek out very fast feedback that's as
seek out very fast feedback that's as specific as possible to the behaviors.
specific as possible to the behaviors. And so um I tell the story a lot because
And so um I tell the story a lot because it's a it's a story that we tell inside
it's a it's a story that we tell inside of our company because it's almost
of our company because it's almost become lore. But we had a a director
become lore. But we had a a director super proficient, very competent in his
super proficient, very competent in his role, really high performer. The problem
role, really high performer. The problem was that everyone said he's such a dick.
was that everyone said he's such a dick. And the thing is is that I really like I
And the thing is is that I really like I liked his performance and I want to
liked his performance and I want to decrease the likelihood that I get
decrease the likelihood that I get complained to about him. And so he had
complained to about him. And so he had four different people in the company
four different people in the company have like one-on- ones with him being
have like one-on- ones with him being like, "Hey, I need you to stop being a
like, "Hey, I need you to stop being a dick." And the thing is his behavior
dick." And the thing is his behavior didn't change. And so I I was supposed
didn't change. And so I I was supposed to be like final boss in this situation
to be like final boss in this situation and be like, "All right, let's let's
and be like, "All right, let's let's let's have the sit down." And so I said,
let's have the sit down." And so I said, "Hey, I I don't care if you are a dick
"Hey, I I don't care if you are a dick on the inside. I would like to decrease
on the inside. I would like to decrease the likelihood that other people
the likelihood that other people describe you as one." And so I want to
describe you as one." And so I want to be clear. I have no judgment. I just
be clear. I have no judgment. I just want to change this likelihood of this
want to change this likelihood of this outcome. And so that kind of took the
outcome. And so that kind of took the personal attacks out of the
personal attacks out of the conversation. And then it was like,
conversation. And then it was like, okay, so what are the behaviors you do
okay, so what are the behaviors you do skill-wise as minutely as possible that
skill-wise as minutely as possible that get people to say this about you? So it
get people to say this about you? So it turned out it was you interrupt people
turned out it was you interrupt people on calls, uh you tell people how to do
on calls, uh you tell people how to do their jobs and and it was two other
their jobs and and it was two other things, whatever it was. And so I said,
things, whatever it was. And so I said, "So next time you have the, you know,
"So next time you have the, you know, desire to tell someone uh what to do
desire to tell someone uh what to do about their job, you have two options.
about their job, you have two options. Either say nothing or say, hey, I I
Either say nothing or say, hey, I I heard this thing that might help. Do you
heard this thing that might help. Do you mind if I share it?" If you just say
mind if I share it?" If you just say that first and if they say no, then just
that first and if they say no, then just be like, "Okay, no worries." or they say
be like, "Okay, no worries." or they say yes, then now you have permission to
yes, then now you have permission to share it. And when you share it, share
share it. And when you share it, share it in terms of behaviors, criticism, not
it in terms of behaviors, criticism, not insult. And so I just had to change a
insult. And so I just had to change a couple of those things. And then within
couple of those things. And then within a week, people were like, "Oh my god,
a week, people were like, "Oh my god, he's had he's a night and day. He's a
he's had he's a night and day. He's a different person. They create all these
different person. They create all these narratives. Maybe it was because his mom
narratives. Maybe it was because his mom did hug him. She called him or because
did hug him. She called him or because we told him what to do instead." And so
we told him what to do instead." And so I I I bring this up because I think many
I I I bring this up because I think many people do not take action around
people do not take action around pursuing their dreams because of
pursuing their dreams because of narratives that they create about their
narratives that they create about their past. But the reality is that none of
past. But the reality is that none of that matters because all we have to do
that matters because all we have to do is just say what do we need to do
is just say what do we need to do instead under these conditions. And if
instead under these conditions. And if we if we take that premise then you need
we if we take that premise then you need to learn and learning means same
to learn and learning means same condition new behavior. And so if every
condition new behavior. And so if every day is the same for you to your point of
day is the same for you to your point of insanity then you have the same
insanity then you have the same conditions and if your behavior has not
conditions and if your behavior has not changed then maybe you are insane or at
changed then maybe you are insane or at least for at least we're expecting a
least for at least we're expecting a different outcome.
different outcome. Yeah.
Yeah. And so that I think makes it significant
And so that I think makes it significant more palatable of like just change this
more palatable of like just change this one thing and then run it again. Yeah.
one thing and then run it again. Yeah. How does someone who's taking that
How does someone who's taking that feedback, trying to get better,
feedback, trying to get better, and the results just not changing,
and the results just not changing, they're not getting closer to the
they're not getting closer to the outcome?
outcome? Yeah.
Yeah. Two questions. The first is how do you
Two questions. The first is how do you know when it's time to give up?
know when it's time to give up? And how do you keep going when things
And how do you keep going when things are not working?
are not working? So, this is um there's a like there's a
So, this is um there's a like there's a handful of what I call like eternal
handful of what I call like eternal questions that can I don't think uh
questions that can I don't think uh they're more dichotoies to be managed
they're more dichotoies to be managed than problems to solve. And so how much
than problems to solve. And so how much should I consume today versus invest
should I consume today versus invest into tomorrow? How much uh how much risk
into tomorrow? How much uh how much risk am I willing to take? Uh which is the
am I willing to take? Uh which is the classic should I push or should I pivot
classic should I push or should I pivot for an entrepreneur? And the answer that
for an entrepreneur? And the answer that no one's going to like is that it's
no one's going to like is that it's actually up to you. So there's kind of
actually up to you. So there's kind of like good failure and bad failure. So
like good failure and bad failure. So good failure is like I tried something
good failure is like I tried something and I I saw that it didn't work and I
and I I saw that it didn't work and I realize what I need to do instead and
realize what I need to do instead and I'm going to iterate continuously. Bad
I'm going to iterate continuously. Bad failure is where I have a an assumption
failure is where I have a an assumption that the world or the conditions were
that the world or the conditions were going to be this way and my assumption
going to be this way and my assumption was false. And so if I believed that
was false. And so if I believed that people really wanted to have uh dog Zoom
people really wanted to have uh dog Zoom calls or whatever, right? A Zoom a Zoom
calls or whatever, right? A Zoom a Zoom made for dogs. Let's just take a
made for dogs. Let's just take a ridiculous example. Well, then I would
ridiculous example. Well, then I would have to take a couple of need to like in
have to take a couple of need to like in order for this to be successful, these
order for this to be successful, these four things would have to be true. If I
four things would have to be true. If I find out after starting some iterations
find out after starting some iterations that one of my three or four assumptions
that one of my three or four assumptions that underpin this being successful long
that underpin this being successful long term is not true, then I should not keep
term is not true, then I should not keep trying to pursue this. And that is where
trying to pursue this. And that is where I would say we need to pivot. In a
I would say we need to pivot. In a situation where none of the conditions
situation where none of the conditions that I or none of the the need to
that I or none of the the need to beliefs have changed, all of those
beliefs have changed, all of those conditions are still the same and it's a
conditions are still the same and it's a it's a it's a deficiency in skill. Then
it's a it's a deficiency in skill. Then that is where I would push.
that is where I would push. Now, how long will it take is going to
Now, how long will it take is going to be completely predicated on how quickly
be completely predicated on how quickly you can learn and the quality of that
you can learn and the quality of that feedback. And so to your point, I think
feedback. And so to your point, I think you said coach, community, and what was
you said coach, community, and what was the other one?
the other one? Commitment.
Commitment. Commitment.
Commitment. Some of consistency.
Some of consistency. Yes. And so um the the commitment part
Yes. And so um the the commitment part um if you want to increase your
um if you want to increase your commitment in anything. So I define
commitment in anything. So I define commitment by uh the elimination of
commitment by uh the elimination of alternatives, right? So marriage is the
alternatives, right? So marriage is the ultimate commitment. You eliminate all
ultimate commitment. You eliminate all alternatives, right? And so it's like we
alternatives, right? And so it's like we want to get married to this opportunity.
want to get married to this opportunity. We get married to this business. We have
We get married to this business. We have to eliminate all alternatives. Which
to eliminate all alternatives. Which means when your friend says, "Hey, I
means when your friend says, "Hey, I made 10 grand doing this thing." You
made 10 grand doing this thing." You say, "That's amazing. I don't know
say, "That's amazing. I don't know anything about that and I know I know
anything about that and I know I know two months of suffering from this one
two months of suffering from this one and I'm going to start at zero there, so
and I'm going to start at zero there, so I'd rather be two months in on this
I'd rather be two months in on this one." Um but the but with that push or
one." Um but the but with that push or pivot um we have to just take things to
pivot um we have to just take things to the natural extreme which is how I like
the natural extreme which is how I like to do it which is okay well if I do this
to do it which is okay well if I do this for 10 years and I keep getting better
for 10 years and I keep getting better do I think it's likely that I'll succeed
do I think it's likely that I'll succeed and the answer is usually yes and so
and the answer is usually yes and so it's like well then I just keep need to
it's like well then I just keep need to keep paying down those iterations and I
keep paying down those iterations and I think Naval said it's not 10,000 hours
think Naval said it's not 10,000 hours it's 10,000 iterations and I tend to
it's 10,000 iterations and I tend to believe that.
believe that. Your new book's called 100 million
Your new book's called 100 million dollar money models.
dollar money models. Yeah.
Yeah. It's like you know I think there'll be
It's like you know I think there'll be people listening who like I just want to
people listening who like I just want to make 100k a year. There'll be people
make 100k a year. There'll be people saying, "I want to make 100k a month."
saying, "I want to make 100k a month." And then there'll be people saying, "We
And then there'll be people saying, "We want to make $100 million business."
want to make $100 million business." What's the difference at each of those
What's the difference at each of those levels?
levels? And what are you sharing here that you
And what are you sharing here that you haven't shared in the $und00 million
haven't shared in the $und00 million series before?
series before? So, um, I'll take those questions one at
So, um, I'll take those questions one at a time. So, I'll start with the second
a time. So, I'll start with the second question, which is, what's different
question, which is, what's different about this book? So,
about this book? So, offers answer the question, what do I
offers answer the question, what do I sell? And so, is an offer so good people
sell? And so, is an offer so good people feel stupid saying no? So, basically
feel stupid saying no? So, basically broke down the components of an offer.
broke down the components of an offer. So we gave a little example of one 5
So we gave a little example of one 5 hours for free. It's a very simple
hours for free. It's a very simple offer, right? But there are offers that
offer, right? But there are offers that you can include guarantees, you can
you can include guarantees, you can include scarcity, you can include
include scarcity, you can include urgency, you can include bonuses and
urgency, you can include bonuses and then the actual core value itself.
then the actual core value itself. There's a way to increase the value of
There's a way to increase the value of anything. So we use something called the
anything. So we use something called the value equation, which is probably the
value equation, which is probably the most known framework I have, which is
most known framework I have, which is there four people say like create value,
there four people say like create value, but when you say how do I operationalize
but when you say how do I operationalize that? If I say to a 5-year-old create
that? If I say to a 5-year-old create value, they're like I don't know what
value, they're like I don't know what that means. And so how do we break that
that means. And so how do we break that down in behaviors? So one is that some
down in behaviors? So one is that some dream outcomes are going to be more
dream outcomes are going to be more valuable to somebody than something
valuable to somebody than something else. So, if I go to a guy and say,
else. So, if I go to a guy and say, "Hey, I can make you rich." Or some or I
"Hey, I can make you rich." Or some or I say, "Hey, I can make you good-looking."
say, "Hey, I can make you good-looking." Most men in general will say, "I'd
Most men in general will say, "I'd rather be rich." If you go to women, it
rather be rich." If you go to women, it flips the other way. But for them, that
flips the other way. But for them, that means that the outcome itself is going
means that the outcome itself is going to be some outcomes are worth more than
to be some outcomes are worth more than others. That's one element of value. The
others. That's one element of value. The second element of value is perceived
second element of value is perceived likelihood of achievement. How risky is
likelihood of achievement. How risky is it? How likely is it to occur? So, if I
it? How likely is it to occur? So, if I said, "Hey, I can make you rich and it's
said, "Hey, I can make you rich and it's guaranteed," it's going to be
guaranteed," it's going to be significantly more valuable than if it's
significantly more valuable than if it's uh you have to take a huge amount of
uh you have to take a huge amount of risk. The third variable is going to be
risk. The third variable is going to be speed. So from the time you make the
speed. So from the time you make the decision to the time you get what you
decision to the time you get what you want. Hey, I can guarantee that you're
want. Hey, I can guarantee that you're going to get rich but it's going to take
going to get rich but it's going to take 20 years. Plenty of people make that
20 years. Plenty of people make that like but a lot of people are like well
like but a lot of people are like well but now this 20 years I want to get rich
but now this 20 years I want to get rich tomorrow. Right? So time is going to be
tomorrow. Right? So time is going to be component of it. And then the fourth
component of it. And then the fourth component is is effort and sacrifice
component is is effort and sacrifice which is two sides of the same coin.
which is two sides of the same coin. Effort is all the things that you must
Effort is all the things that you must do that you don't want to do as a result
do that you don't want to do as a result of this decision. And on the flip side
of this decision. And on the flip side sacrifice is all the things you have to
sacrifice is all the things you have to give up that you would prefer to do but
give up that you would prefer to do but you can no longer do as a result of the
you can no longer do as a result of the decision. And so if we want to make the
decision. And so if we want to make the most valuable offer, then we want to
most valuable offer, then we want to create something that is a huge dream
create something that is a huge dream outcome that happens guaranteed, that is
outcome that happens guaranteed, that is immediate, and that they don't have to
immediate, and that they don't have to do anything for. Now, no offer is that
do anything for. Now, no offer is that good, but those are the hypothetical
good, but those are the hypothetical extremes, the ideals that we strive
extremes, the ideals that we strive towards. And I think that's a beautiful
towards. And I think that's a beautiful thing for entrepreneurs is that all we
thing for entrepreneurs is that all we try to do is just get closer and closer
try to do is just get closer and closer to all four of those pillars.
to all four of those pillars. So that is the core of the offers book.
So that is the core of the offers book. The lead's book is the core four. So we
The lead's book is the core four. So we went over earlier. So how do you promote
went over earlier. So how do you promote anything? And so that book takes all
anything? And so that book takes all eight of the components core four you do
eight of the components core four you do and then uh the core that other people
and then uh the core that other people do on your behalf and breaks down in
do on your behalf and breaks down in nitty-gritty detail step by step how to
nitty-gritty detail step by step how to do them. This book answers the question
do them. This book answers the question how do I make money right? And so it's
how do I make money right? And so it's like okay well I know what to sell and I
like okay well I know what to sell and I know how to advertise it but how do I
know how to advertise it but how do I turn that process into making money? And
turn that process into making money? And so most people uh like the thing that
so most people uh like the thing that separates when I look back on all the
separates when I look back on all the companies that I've owned, advised,
companies that I've owned, advised, sold, um the thing that separated the
sold, um the thing that separated the businesses that were moderately
businesses that were moderately successful from the ones that were
successful from the ones that were exceptionally successful is that they
exceptionally successful is that they had a better money model. And a money
had a better money model. And a money model is the core economic unit of the
model is the core economic unit of the business. So it's a deliberate sequence
business. So it's a deliberate sequence of offers that is ideally tailored to do
of offers that is ideally tailored to do one financial outcome, which is you
one financial outcome, which is you collect enough cash from one customer in
collect enough cash from one customer in the first 30 days to get and service two
the first 30 days to get and service two more customers.
more customers. And so when you have that amount of cash
And so when you have that amount of cash up front, then it unlocks cash flow for
up front, then it unlocks cash flow for the business to grow as much as it wants
the business to grow as much as it wants or at least until the next constraint of
or at least until the next constraint of the business. And so when I looked at
the business. And so when I looked at all the money models that I created is
all the money models that I created is there's basically four four different
there's basically four four different objectives to make that happen. So one
objectives to make that happen. So one is how do I get more people interested?
is how do I get more people interested? So that's going to be the nature of the
So that's going to be the nature of the offer. You know buy X get Y free
offer. You know buy X get Y free giveaways things like that that like
giveaways things like that that like okay I can structure this thing in a way
okay I can structure this thing in a way that makes way more people interested
that makes way more people interested than just saying hey buy my thing. The
than just saying hey buy my thing. The second element is okay how do I get
second element is okay how do I get those people to spend more money than
those people to spend more money than they otherwise would. So there's
they otherwise would. So there's different money models around that. The
different money models around that. The third is going to be how do I make them
third is going to be how do I make them spend their money faster? How do I pull
spend their money faster? How do I pull that cash flow forward? And then the
that cash flow forward? And then the fourth element of good money is a money
fourth element of good money is a money model is how do I get them to do it
model is how do I get them to do it again and again and again which can
again and again and again which can either be recurring in a membership or
either be recurring in a membership or reoccurring like Coca-Cola. You still
reoccurring like Coca-Cola. You still buy it again and again it's just not on
buy it again and again it's just not on subscription. And so if you have all
subscription. And so if you have all four of those things then you have a
four of those things then you have a business that can create tons and tons
business that can create tons and tons of demand get lots and lots of money
of demand get lots and lots of money upfront and get people to buy again and
upfront and get people to buy again and again which then creates stability and
again which then creates stability and cash flow for the business long term.
cash flow for the business long term. And so that is basically the four
And so that is basically the four pillars of the book and it's broken down
pillars of the book and it's broken down in those four steps of these are the
in those four steps of these are the these are the front-end offers that do
these are the front-end offers that do this. These are the the transition
this. These are the the transition points to how do I get someone to take
points to how do I get someone to take the next thing that's going to be more
the next thing that's going to be more expensive or how to get to take the
expensive or how to get to take the bottom thing or how to create pain
bottom thing or how to create pain points, how to create downells, all of
points, how to create downells, all of those components which ultimately make
those components which ultimately make businesses significantly more
businesses significantly more successful. And I started writing this
successful. And I started writing this in 2019. It was the first book that I
in 2019. It was the first book that I started. So it was actually called um
started. So it was actually called um lead lead generation to monetization
lead lead generation to monetization structures which you know very very sexy
structures which you know very very sexy name. Um but this was uh I had a mentor
name. Um but this was uh I had a mentor that told me hey you're in the sale
that told me hey you're in the sale process right now. you should document
process right now. you should document all the artifacts uh kind of
all the artifacts uh kind of crystallized knowledge at that point and
crystallized knowledge at that point and so that is what started that book. Now
so that is what started that book. Now offers and leads were basically that
offers and leads were basically that book was like this thick and I was like
book was like this thick and I was like this is I can't so I actually peeled off
this is I can't so I actually peeled off offers and then finished that first and
offers and then finished that first and then peeled off leads and finished that
then peeled off leads and finished that second and then finally I can get to the
second and then finally I can get to the money models which is actually what I
money models which is actually what I started six years ago.
started six years ago. And so I' I've I have not publicly
And so I' I've I have not publicly talked about any of the structures in
talked about any of the structures in this book and I feel like I'm giving
this book and I feel like I'm giving birth I've been I've been pregnant for
birth I've been I've been pregnant for six years. uh you know, conceptually
six years. uh you know, conceptually pregnant and I want to give birth to
pregnant and I want to give birth to this thing because I I think that this
this thing because I I think that this will make the largest impact on business
will make the largest impact on business owners bottom line of anything that I've
owners bottom line of anything that I've ever made. And it's been the source of
ever made. And it's been the source of the vast majority of my material success
the vast majority of my material success is being able to do this because when
is being able to do this because when you have a superior money model, it
you have a superior money model, it gives you padding to be bad at
gives you padding to be bad at everything else
everything else because you finally make more money per
because you finally make more money per customer than anyone else does in your
customer than anyone else does in your space, which means your advertising
space, which means your advertising doesn't have to be as good. You don't
doesn't have to be as good. You don't have to be as good at sales. your your
have to be as good at sales. your your your like the offer itself might not
your like the offer itself might not necessarily be as good, but when you
necessarily be as good, but when you sequence these things together properly
sequence these things together properly the right way, then you can unlock skill
the right way, then you can unlock skill in the business and then with that cash
in the business and then with that cash flow buy down that ignorance debt and
flow buy down that ignorance debt and then get give yourself time to to get
then get give yourself time to to get good at all the other stuff.
good at all the other stuff. And what starting point would you say
And what starting point would you say this book's aimed at? Like where is
this book's aimed at? Like where is someone at in their journey?
someone at in their journey? You can start at zero because you could
You can start at zero because you could start. So what's interesting about those
start. So what's interesting about those four things is that you don't need all
four things is that you don't need all four. You just need one.
four. You just need one. And over time because if you were trying
And over time because if you were trying to do a business that had all four, you
to do a business that had all four, you had recurring, you have upfront, like
had recurring, you have upfront, like you would be completely inundated. So,
you would be completely inundated. So, we would start with the first thing,
we would start with the first thing, which is some sort of attraction offer.
which is some sort of attraction offer. How do we get something that's that's
How do we get something that's that's more designed to get more customers or
more designed to get more customers or more people to engage in your original
more people to engage in your original reachout, your paid ad, your your
reachout, your paid ad, your your content, whatever it is. Um, and so I
content, whatever it is. Um, and so I have the five most successful structures
have the five most successful structures that I have used and detailed step by
that I have used and detailed step by step exactly how to execute them. And
step exactly how to execute them. And what's interesting is that this is the
what's interesting is that this is the stuff that so the offers book when it
stuff that so the offers book when it came out, there wasn't a single other
came out, there wasn't a single other book about offers, which is interesting.
book about offers, which is interesting. And then it became kind of a household
And then it became kind of a household name which is it was this massive gap in
name which is it was this massive gap in the space but as soon as you see it
the space but as soon as you see it you're like this is everything you know
you're like this is everything you know like this is how all of it works. I I
like this is how all of it works. I I think that money models will be that
think that money models will be that same thing where there's not a single
same thing where there's not a single book that ties those concepts together
book that ties those concepts together and as soon as it I think it will it
and as soon as it I think it will it will exist in that that huge gap that
will exist in that that huge gap that once you see it you can analyze any
once you see it you can analyze any business in that same way and
business in that same way and specifically your own.
specifically your own. Yeah I love it Alex. I'm honestly like
Yeah I love it Alex. I'm honestly like listening to you today and and I've
listening to you today and and I've consumed your content for a long time
consumed your content for a long time now. listening to you in person
now. listening to you in person consistently for this long around the
consistently for this long around the models that you've built is is a real
models that you've built is is a real treat, man. It's it's it's so well
treat, man. It's it's it's so well thought through. It's so systematic. I
thought through. It's so systematic. I love the way you think, the way you've
love the way you think, the way you've been able to train yourself to realize
been able to train yourself to realize that everything's built on behaviors and
that everything's built on behaviors and the ability even something that you said
the ability even something that you said to me that's really going to stay with
to me that's really going to stay with me because I think about it in such a
me because I think about it in such a similar way, but it's so obscure. Like
similar way, but it's so obscure. Like we we have a lot of similarities in our
we we have a lot of similarities in our beliefs and but some of them are a bit
beliefs and but some of them are a bit more
more from different angles, which I which I
from different angles, which I which I love.
love. Yeah. from different angles, but some of
Yeah. from different angles, but some of them are a bit more they're from
them are a bit more they're from different angles, but some of them are a
different angles, but some of them are a bit more widespread held. But your one
bit more widespread held. But your one thing you talked about today about how
thing you talked about today about how when you watch people say what they
when you watch people say what they regret,
regret, and I think about that all the time. I'm
and I think about that all the time. I'm like, of course you regret you didn't
like, of course you regret you didn't spend enough time with your family,
spend enough time with your family, but you're totally taking away from all
but you're totally taking away from all the benefits you just got right now. And
the benefits you just got right now. And I'm not saying people shouldn't spend
I'm not saying people shouldn't spend time with their family. It's just when
time with their family. It's just when you said that today, that was one thing
you said that today, that was one thing that I was like, I can't believe like to
that I was like, I can't believe like to have the ability to think it through to
have the ability to think it through to that level to not just take something at
that level to not just take something at face value. And I think that's that's
face value. And I think that's that's the skill I see you have. Thanks.
the skill I see you have. Thanks. Like that's the expert you're at is that
Like that's the expert you're at is that you don't take anything at face value. I
you don't take anything at face value. I appreciate
appreciate and and that's hard
and and that's hard because it requires you to dig deep to
because it requires you to dig deep to figure out, well,
figure out, well, what is the behavioral science here?
what is the behavioral science here? What is the what is the exchange here?
What is the what is the exchange here? Like what emotions are we talking about?
Like what emotions are we talking about? I picked out some of my favorite Alex
I picked out some of my favorite Alex Wosi quotes because I had to because
Wosi quotes because I had to because there's so many. All right, we've
there's so many. All right, we've touched on some of this, but it'll be
touched on some of this, but it'll be good to get your reaction to them again.
good to get your reaction to them again. All right, so
All right, so this one I love because I think it's so
this one I love because I think it's so true. Most people want to become
true. Most people want to become millionaires because of what being a
millionaires because of what being a millionaire allows you to do, not
millionaire allows you to do, not because of what you have to do to become
because of what you have to do to become a millionaire.
a millionaire. What do we do about that mindset?
What do we do about that mindset? It's uh it's wanting the view without
It's uh it's wanting the view without the climb. It's uh Jimmy Carr has a
the climb. It's uh Jimmy Carr has a great quote on this. Uh it's uh everyone
great quote on this. Uh it's uh everyone wants what you have but not what you did
wants what you have but not what you did to get it.
to get it. I think that if we make who we become
I think that if we make who we become the goal
the goal rather than the thing that we achieve
rather than the thing that we achieve instead of winning once a decade, we can
instead of winning once a decade, we can win every day because you can
win every day because you can continually get better at being who you
continually get better at being who you are and then the achievement is just one
are and then the achievement is just one milestone along along the path. But at
milestone along along the path. But at least in my experience is as I've
least in my experience is as I've actually approached milestones when it
actually approached milestones when it becomes increasingly likely that I'm
becomes increasingly likely that I'm going to achieve it, it matters less and
going to achieve it, it matters less and less. When I was in the lifting world,
less. When I was in the lifting world, if I if I thought whatever my lift was
if I if I thought whatever my lift was and added 100 pounds, I would be like,
and added 100 pounds, I would be like, "Oh my god, man, if I lifted that, that
"Oh my god, man, if I lifted that, that would be insane." But by the time you
would be insane." But by the time you actually do lift that, you also lifted 5
actually do lift that, you also lifted 5 lbs less than that before and you lifted
lbs less than that before and you lifted 10 pounds less than that before. So,
10 pounds less than that before. So, you're like, "Well, it's really not that
you're like, "Well, it's really not that big of a stretch anymore." And so, it
big of a stretch anymore." And so, it actually in some ways it's it's not even
actually in some ways it's it's not even nearly as fulfilling as you think it is.
nearly as fulfilling as you think it is. Cuz by the time it happens, you're so
Cuz by the time it happens, you're so close to it, it seems obvious. And so um
close to it, it seems obvious. And so um shifting from who I become rather than
shifting from who I become rather than what I achieve or who I become as the
what I achieve or who I become as the achievement um has been a wonderful
achievement um has been a wonderful reframe for like sure you want to be a
reframe for like sure you want to be a millionaire but what you really want to
millionaire but what you really want to do is become the person who can become a
do is become the person who can become a millionaire and that you can win every
millionaire and that you can win every day and then that takes away the um I
day and then that takes away the um I don't want to do the things that
don't want to do the things that Yeah. And that comes to one of the
Yeah. And that comes to one of the things you talk about a lot that I love
things you talk about a lot that I love is sense control. Like that that to me I
is sense control. Like that that to me I think one of the earliest clips I saw of
think one of the earliest clips I saw of yours was someone had asked you
yours was someone had asked you something like you know what do you
something like you know what do you what's a trait you see in successful
what's a trait you see in successful people and I think you'd said three
people and I think you'd said three things and I loved hearing that third
things and I loved hearing that third one. The first one was I think you said
one. The first one was I think you said something like
something like you know they're all people who who have
you know they're all people who who have high standards so they they want they
high standards so they they want they expect a lot from themselves. Yeah. The
expect a lot from themselves. Yeah. The second was but at the same time they
second was but at the same time they they're good at not being that hard on
they're good at not being that hard on themselves when they don't get there.
themselves when they don't get there. Emotional control. Yeah.
Emotional control. Yeah. Yeah. And then the third thing was like
Yeah. And then the third thing was like sense control if I'm not wrong.
sense control if I'm not wrong. Yeah. Yeah. The other one was uh so it's
Yeah. Yeah. The other one was uh so it's this
this which one did I get wrong?
which one did I get wrong? No. No. It's like uh you have this uh
No. No. It's like uh you have this uh inflated sense of self so you believe
inflated sense of self so you believe you can achieve great things.
you can achieve great things. Yes. That's it.
Yes. That's it. You have this crippling insecurity
You have this crippling insecurity that that pushes you away. Yeah. And
that that pushes you away. Yeah. And then the third is that you can control
then the third is that you can control your emotions.
your emotions. Yeah. And that that third and and I've
Yeah. And that that third and and I've always thought it's the high standards,
always thought it's the high standards, high grace. That's my language around
high grace. That's my language around it.
it. But the third one of of that
But the third one of of that selfmastery,
selfmastery, what do you think is the number one
what do you think is the number one emotion
emotion that people don't know how to control
that people don't know how to control that leads to failure?
that leads to failure? That is such a good question,
That is such a good question, fear.
fear. Because I think one of the one of the
Because I think one of the one of the most one of the wildest questions um
most one of the wildest questions um that I read that you know kind of stuck
that I read that you know kind of stuck with me was like
with me was like what would you do if you weren't afraid?
what would you do if you weren't afraid? And I think that's just a such a such a
And I think that's just a such a such a a powerful question to ask because every
a powerful question to ask because every person has the the fear is the thing
person has the the fear is the thing that gives you the hundred reasons. And
that gives you the hundred reasons. And what's really interesting about this is
what's really interesting about this is that we are our brains are exceptionally
that we are our brains are exceptionally good at finding problems which is why
good at finding problems which is why I'm a big fan of inverted thinking. So,
I'm a big fan of inverted thinking. So, how can I think about all the ways to
how can I think about all the ways to kill my business and then do the
kill my business and then do the opposite? You'll your brain is so much
opposite? You'll your brain is so much better at spotting problems than
better at spotting problems than spotting opportunities. And so, it's
spotting opportunities. And so, it's like use that problem that problem
like use that problem that problem finding thing and then just flip it. And
finding thing and then just flip it. And it sounds like, oh, well, I would just
it sounds like, oh, well, I would just think of the opportunities that way.
think of the opportunities that way. It's like it doesn't actually work. You
It's like it doesn't actually work. You actually have to think for the threats
actually have to think for the threats and then flip them.
and then flip them. But
But that's genius. I love that.
that's genius. I love that. Yeah, that's Charlie Mongers. That's,
Yeah, that's Charlie Mongers. That's, you know, you know, rest in peace. Um,
you know, you know, rest in peace. Um, but from a from a fear perspective, it's
but from a from a fear perspective, it's I think it's playing it out. It's like
I think it's playing it out. It's like what what am I actually most afraid of?
what what am I actually most afraid of? And so fear typically only lives in the
And so fear typically only lives in the vague, not in the specific. We tend to
vague, not in the specific. We tend to catastrophize to death. So if I make
catastrophize to death. So if I make this post and people laugh at me, I'll
this post and people laugh at me, I'll get shunned and then I'll eventually go
get shunned and then I'll eventually go alone and then die, right? So it's like
alone and then die, right? So it's like everything just goes to like death,
everything just goes to like death, right? And so playing it out into the
right? And so playing it out into the specific is like, okay, well, I make
specific is like, okay, well, I make this post, some people will like it and
this post, some people will like it and some people won't. And maybe I'll get
some people won't. And maybe I'll get some negative comments. If I get
some negative comments. If I get negative comments, I'll get more reach.
negative comments, I'll get more reach. So maybe that's not a terrible thing.
So maybe that's not a terrible thing. And then and then that night I will have
And then and then that night I will have dinner,
dinner, right? And that night I will go to bed,
right? And that night I will go to bed, right? And so uh making making it really
right? And so uh making making it really really specific and then just to add one
really specific and then just to add one more thing on that. The other really big
more thing on that. The other really big downside of being human from an
downside of being human from an opportunity moneymaking perspective is
opportunity moneymaking perspective is that we underestimate the upside and we
that we underestimate the upside and we overestimate the downside. And that has
overestimate the downside. And that has been incredibly valuable for us to stay
been incredibly valuable for us to stay alive
alive and not very valuable for us to make
and not very valuable for us to make money. And so when you if you're in the
money. And so when you if you're in the developed world, the the the absolute
developed world, the the the absolute worst case scenario is that you still
worst case scenario is that you still have I say fortress, you still have you
have I say fortress, you still have you still have a cover and you still have
still have a cover and you still have food and you still have air and you
food and you still have air and you still have water because in the
still have water because in the developed world all those things are
developed world all those things are available to anyone. And so it's like
available to anyone. And so it's like okay so the worst case scenario is that
okay so the worst case scenario is that I live and I'm completely free and no
I live and I'm completely free and no one bothers me. It's like you know that
one bothers me. It's like you know that actually sounds not so bad
actually sounds not so bad when you actually play it all the way
when you actually play it all the way out. And so um I think playing it out
out. And so um I think playing it out and actually really thinking what would
and actually really thinking what would I then do? Well, I probably reach out to
I then do? Well, I probably reach out to Sarah and she would let me sleep on her
Sarah and she would let me sleep on her couch. Okay. So, and I would I would ask
couch. Okay. So, and I would I would ask her if you can play. I'd be like, "Hey,
her if you can play. I'd be like, "Hey, Sarah, if I were to do something and I
Sarah, if I were to do something and I were to fail, how long would you let me
were to fail, how long would you let me sleep on your couch?" She's like, "I'd
sleep on your couch?" She's like, "I'd give you 6 months." And you're like,
give you 6 months." And you're like, "Okay." So, it al all of a sudden
"Okay." So, it al all of a sudden becomes concrete. And I think that that
becomes concrete. And I think that that starts to really evaporate fear rather
starts to really evaporate fear rather than like, "Oh, I will die."
than like, "Oh, I will die." Totally. Yeah. I remember that when I
Totally. Yeah. I remember that when I when I made the leap. I was like, and
when I made the leap. I was like, and and of course I was in a position to be
and of course I was in a position to be able to say this, but I was like, "Okay,
able to say this, but I was like, "Okay, well, I'll just go back to what I was
well, I'll just go back to what I was doing. Like, if this didn't work, I will
doing. Like, if this didn't work, I will just go back. like I'll figure out a way
just go back. like I'll figure out a way get the job back
get the job back and I'll get the job back and I and I'll
and I'll get the job back and I and I'll and I'll go back to do it and and that
and I'll go back to do it and and that was the reality and of course it was
was the reality and of course it was still at the time when I felt this was
still at the time when I felt this was taking up all of that.
taking up all of that. All right, another one that I love
All right, another one that I love this this one really really hit me and
this this one really really hit me and and I feel it's going to resonate with a
and I feel it's going to resonate with a lot of people if you haven't heard it
lot of people if you haven't heard it yet. People fail not because there's
yet. People fail not because there's some magical list nobody has. They fail
some magical list nobody has. They fail because it's an obvious list nobody
because it's an obvious list nobody does.
does. I'm so happy you like that one. It
I'm so happy you like that one. It didn't like I I just just to give kudos
didn't like I I just just to give kudos to Jay here, you picked out tweets that
to Jay here, you picked out tweets that were not like super banger high
were not like super banger high performers, but like I wrote these and I
performers, but like I wrote these and I was like this is like this is a thing.
was like this is like this is a thing. I picked ones that really I didn't pick
I picked ones that really I didn't pick them based on performance. I picked them
them based on performance. I picked them based on like I was like I read this I
based on like I was like I read this I was like yes like
was like yes like I like that. So just kudos to you for
I like that. So just kudos to you for that because I it makes me feel good. Um
that because I it makes me feel good. Um but yeah, so I mean this is a super
but yeah, so I mean this is a super known one but like the magic isn't the
known one but like the magic isn't the work that we're not doing right. It's
work that we're not doing right. It's the obvious list. um if you were trying
the obvious list. um if you were trying to get in shape, you know, you should
to get in shape, you know, you should eat less and you should move more. You
eat less and you should move more. You know that. And so I used to even do
know that. And so I used to even do these with when I would have a weight
these with when I would have a weight loss customer would come in the door and
loss customer would come in the door and they'd be like, "So tell me more about
they'd be like, "So tell me more about the" and I would just say like, "Do we
the" and I would just say like, "Do we really need to get into it?" Like you
really need to get into it?" Like you already know what you're supposed to do.
already know what you're supposed to do. The question is why you aren't doing it.
The question is why you aren't doing it. That's what I'm here for.
That's what I'm here for. And so in a lot of these situations,
And so in a lot of these situations, like you probably know that if you're
like you probably know that if you're going to invest, you should uh you know,
going to invest, you should uh you know, wait 10 years. And if you're not willing
wait 10 years. And if you're not willing to wait 10 years, then you shouldn't buy
to wait 10 years, then you shouldn't buy it. Which means that if you're like,
it. Which means that if you're like, "Well, I don't have the time to do that
"Well, I don't have the time to do that research." Then don't invest. increase
research." Then don't invest. increase your active income, right? Um and so and
your active income, right? Um and so and all these things like, okay, well, how
all these things like, okay, well, how do I increase my active income? Well, I
do I increase my active income? Well, I know I need to do more than I currently
know I need to do more than I currently am. I know I need to put my stuff out
am. I know I need to put my stuff out there. And so, one of my favorite frames
there. And so, one of my favorite frames around this is um it's the Solomon
around this is um it's the Solomon paradox, right? And so, for those who
paradox, right? And so, for those who don't know in the Bible, Solomon, wise
don't know in the Bible, Solomon, wise wise man. Um but it's called the Solomon
wise man. Um but it's called the Solomon paradox because he gave amazing advice,
paradox because he gave amazing advice, but his life was in shambles. And so,
but his life was in shambles. And so, the thing is is that we're exceptionally
the thing is is that we're exceptionally good at giving advice and very good and
good at giving advice and very good and very bad at following it for ourselves.
very bad at following it for ourselves. And so what's interesting is that you
And so what's interesting is that you they actually did studies on this where
they actually did studies on this where they had people they they whitewashed
they had people they they whitewashed someone's existing circumstances and
someone's existing circumstances and their conditions and had the same people
their conditions and had the same people not knowing they were criticizing
not knowing they were criticizing themselves give critiques to this person
themselves give critiques to this person what to do to improve their lives. And
what to do to improve their lives. And the thing is is that none of the people
the thing is is that none of the people were actually doing it. And so the thing
were actually doing it. And so the thing is um I like that frame because if you
is um I like that frame because if you parachute your sorry project yourself in
parachute your sorry project yourself in the future and look back and say okay
the future and look back and say okay what would 80 years old version of me
what would 80 years old version of me tell me to do for some reason it kind of
tell me to do for some reason it kind of like disembodies yourself a little bit
like disembodies yourself a little bit and you can get back and say well I
and you can get back and say well I would tell myself to do this this and
would tell myself to do this this and this. And the thing is is that you have
this. And the thing is is that you have complete context on your situation. And
complete context on your situation. And so sometimes it's some of the best
so sometimes it's some of the best advice you can get. And I know this is
advice you can get. And I know this is kind of like the inverted thing where
kind of like the inverted thing where you're like oh why why just actually go
you're like oh why why just actually go through the process and say I'm going to
through the process and say I'm going to write down a conversation with myself
write down a conversation with myself that's 80 years old. what would he or
that's 80 years old. what would he or she tell me to do? Um, and it probably
she tell me to do? Um, and it probably is that obvious list that no one does,
is that obvious list that no one does, not the magical list that no one knows.
not the magical list that no one knows. Because the thing is is that like the
Because the thing is is that like the clues of success are in plain sight.
clues of success are in plain sight. It's just that the sweat that's require
It's just that the sweat that's require the price tag associated with them is
the price tag associated with them is the one that people don't want to pay.
the one that people don't want to pay. So people don't really give up on their
So people don't really give up on their dreams. They give up they they see what
dreams. They give up they they see what it takes to get their dreams and then
it takes to get their dreams and then decide it's too expensive.
decide it's too expensive. And I think that's the big thing is is
And I think that's the big thing is is they think it's mispriced. And maybe it
they think it's mispriced. And maybe it is. And I think that's okay. But my my
is. And I think that's okay. But my my preference would be that many people
preference would be that many people say, you know what, that's not worth it
say, you know what, that's not worth it to me. And then be like, great, you've
to me. And then be like, great, you've won. Like, you've won. You don't need to
won. Like, you've won. You don't need to get anywhere. You've already won where
get anywhere. You've already won where you're at. So that's at least my my
you're at. So that's at least my my thought on it.
thought on it. Yeah. I love that. How does it how does
Yeah. I love that. How does it how does someone who listens to this episode
someone who listens to this episode versus someone who applies this episode
versus someone who applies this episode live differently today or tomorrow?
live differently today or tomorrow? Well, if someone just listens to the
Well, if someone just listens to the episode, tomorrow will be the same for
episode, tomorrow will be the same for you. Uh, so that's that's an easy one.
you. Uh, so that's that's an easy one. This was just entertainment for you.
This was just entertainment for you. Just define in terms of actions what you
Just define in terms of actions what you were going to do. I mean, that is really
were going to do. I mean, that is really it. And so like you can prove to
it. And so like you can prove to yourself that you learned something from
yourself that you learned something from this podcast rather than just being
this podcast rather than just being entertained by this podcast by simply
entertained by this podcast by simply doing something different, taking an
doing something different, taking an action. And so maybe it is just
action. And so maybe it is just recording that selfie video and texting
recording that selfie video and texting it to 100 people. That's it. You could
it to 100 people. That's it. You could just do that and you would have I mean
just do that and you would have I mean you would be so much further ahead than
you would be so much further ahead than than you were yesterday. And what's
than you were yesterday. And what's crazy is that the amount of uh progress
crazy is that the amount of uh progress that you make in that first 20 hours is
that you make in that first 20 hours is greater than any amount of progress that
greater than any amount of progress that you will likely make over the remainder
you will likely make over the remainder of your career because going from
of your career because going from absolutely terrible to proficient
absolutely terrible to proficient happens so fast. Now, to be clear, all
happens so fast. Now, to be clear, all of the gains come from going from
of the gains come from going from proficient to master, which take a huge
proficient to master, which take a huge amount of time, but it's it's one of the
amount of time, but it's it's one of the most exciting times because you're like,
most exciting times because you're like, "Oh my look, I can build an app now." Or
"Oh my look, I can build an app now." Or look, I can build a web page or look, I
look, I can build a web page or look, I I can I can show other people how to
I can I can show other people how to sell stuff, whatever it is. And I think
sell stuff, whatever it is. And I think I would I would just want to get to
I would I would just want to get to that, like get to that fast learning
that, like get to that fast learning curve as fast as you can. And the only
curve as fast as you can. And the only way we can do that is starting.
way we can do that is starting. I love it. All right, here's another
I love it. All right, here's another one. I don't know if it's a popular one
one. I don't know if it's a popular one or not, but deleting work life balance
or not, but deleting work life balance for a season nets you more work life
for a season nets you more work life balance over a lifetime.
balance over a lifetime. So, I I love this uh frame shift, which
So, I I love this uh frame shift, which is everyone talks about work life
is everyone talks about work life balance, but no one talks about it over
balance, but no one talks about it over what timeline.
what timeline. Paul Graham said this from Y Cominator.
Paul Graham said this from Y Cominator. He said um in order to make a million
He said um in order to make a million dollars, you have to endure a million
dollars, you have to endure a million dollars worth of pain. And so you might
dollars worth of pain. And so you might be able to endure a million dollars
be able to endure a million dollars worth of pain over 40 years or you can
worth of pain over 40 years or you can crunch it into four crazy years and then
crunch it into four crazy years and then after that you can have whatever you
after that you can have whatever you want to have afterwards. And so I I
want to have afterwards. And so I I think about life in seasons rather than
think about life in seasons rather than in you know on on microcosm of days and
in you know on on microcosm of days and and even weeks and I think that shifting
and even weeks and I think that shifting that perspective will really only solve
that perspective will really only solve one core problem for people which is
one core problem for people which is that they feel like they are doing
that they feel like they are doing something wrong by making a sacrifice
something wrong by making a sacrifice today. And there's always going to and
today. And there's always going to and again it's an eternal question. How much
again it's an eternal question. How much do I how much do I risk? Uh how much do
do I how much do I risk? Uh how much do I consume versus invest? These are
I consume versus invest? These are classic human problems that will never
classic human problems that will never have a correct answer. And it's more
have a correct answer. And it's more what's the correct answer for you and
what's the correct answer for you and your season right now based on the goals
your season right now based on the goals you have. And so I think if anything I
you have. And so I think if anything I would want that quote to give some
would want that quote to give some people permission
people permission to work a weekend every once in a while
to work a weekend every once in a while to to take the five to nine on both
to to take the five to nine on both sides of the day and say you know what I
sides of the day and say you know what I am going to be unbalanced and that's
am going to be unbalanced and that's okay because at least in my observation
okay because at least in my observation and probably yours I have yet to see a
and probably yours I have yet to see a hyper successful person who doesn't have
hyper successful person who doesn't have a wildly unbalanced life or at least for
a wildly unbalanced life or at least for a significant period of time
a significant period of time and we want to just make sure that we're
and we want to just make sure that we're not looking at someone once they are a
not looking at someone once they are a billionaire and saying what are they
billionaire and saying what are they doing now because they might be in a
doing now because they might be in a different season now and so don't look
different season now and so don't look at what you know Warren Buffett's doing
at what you know Warren Buffett's doing when he says, "If I make two good
when he says, "If I make two good decisions a year, I've had a good year."
decisions a year, I've had a good year." Well, if you make two good decisions a
Well, if you make two good decisions a year, you're still probably not you're
year, you're still probably not you're not going to be Warren Buffett, right?
not going to be Warren Buffett, right? Um, and so I I think about that as my as
Um, and so I I think about that as my as as a my frame.
as a my frame. Yeah. Don't read someone's chapter 20
Yeah. Don't read someone's chapter 20 when you're writing your chapter one.
when you're writing your chapter one. Like, it doesn't make any sense. And I
Like, it doesn't make any sense. And I remember growing up, not growing up, I
remember growing up, not growing up, I remember a few years ago when Gary
remember a few years ago when Gary Gary's version that I loved, which was
Gary's version that I loved, which was like in his words, and so I'll say, "Eat
like in his words, and so I'll say, "Eat [ __ ] for two years and then eat caviar
[ __ ] for two years and then eat caviar for the rest of your life." Yeah.
I'm going to be really balanced for 10 years. And I was thinking about the
years. And I was thinking about the other day and you said seasons and
other day and you said seasons and I was saying this the other day when I
I was saying this the other day when I was on tour. I was talking to Jesse Sler
was on tour. I was talking to Jesse Sler and I said this to Jesse. We were
and I said this to Jesse. We were talking about something similar and I
talking about something similar and I was just like
was just like I would never want a day a perfect day
I would never want a day a perfect day is not a day where it rains, snows, sun
is not a day where it rains, snows, sun and fall, right? Like that's not a
and fall, right? Like that's not a perfect day. Like you wouldn't say that.
perfect day. Like you wouldn't say that. You would say, "I hope it rains today. I
You would say, "I hope it rains today. I hope it snows today. I hope it's sunny.
hope it snows today. I hope it's sunny. And I hope the leaves shed." Like,
And I hope the leaves shed." Like, that's not a perfect day, but that's
that's not a perfect day, but that's what you want every day. And nature's
what you want every day. And nature's already showing you the cycles that
already showing you the cycles that work.
work. Yeah.
Yeah. But we're trying to go against nature by
But we're trying to go against nature by saying, "I want everything to happen
saying, "I want everything to happen today."
today." And I want all my days to be over the
And I want all my days to be over the halfway line.
halfway line. Yeah.
Yeah. And so I think about this from a law of
And so I think about this from a law of large numbers perspective, which is
large numbers perspective, which is let's say you have 365 days in a year.
let's say you have 365 days in a year. Um, and there's going to be, if you
Um, and there's going to be, if you change nothing, the bottom 10% of days,
change nothing, the bottom 10% of days, you're going to have 36 days in the year
you're going to have 36 days in the year that are bottom 10% days that are,
that are bottom 10% days that are, there's nothing wrong with a day. It's
there's nothing wrong with a day. It's just that this happens to be a bottom
just that this happens to be a bottom 10% day. And so, I think a lot of
10% day. And so, I think a lot of suffering comes from just the normal
suffering comes from just the normal volatility or variation that exists in
volatility or variation that exists in life and then somehow ascribing meaning
life and then somehow ascribing meaning to it and saying, "Oh, and because this
to it and saying, "Oh, and because this is the bottom 10%, it is bad." Rather
is the bottom 10%, it is bad." Rather than it is sunny, it is rainy and I need
than it is sunny, it is rainy and I need rain in order to appreciate sun. Yeah.
rain in order to appreciate sun. Yeah. Right. And so it's like we can't have
Right. And so it's like we can't have just upside. It's the trade-offs. Like I
just upside. It's the trade-offs. Like I want all the good without the bad. But
want all the good without the bad. But the bad is what makes the good good.
the bad is what makes the good good. Yeah. Yeah. And and the bad is what
Yeah. Yeah. And and the bad is what sometimes what keeps you going. Yeah.
sometimes what keeps you going. Yeah. Cuz if it was just good, maybe you'd
Cuz if it was just good, maybe you'd stop, maybe you'd give up.
stop, maybe you'd give up. Last one of these that I wanted to pick
Last one of these that I wanted to pick out, which I think is going to help a
out, which I think is going to help a lot of people because I've been doing it
lot of people because I've been doing it a lot. I'm wring my third book right
a lot. I'm wring my third book right now, and this has changed my life.
now, and this has changed my life. It's amazing how much you can get done
It's amazing how much you can get done if you work for 12 hours without your
if you work for 12 hours without your phone.
phone. So, I mean,
So, I mean, so simple yet so profound. So I defined
so simple yet so profound. So I defined so the here's the the the number one the
so the here's the the the number one the the highest value productivity hack that
the highest value productivity hack that I can give anyone. So this is the the
I can give anyone. So this is the the hack of productivity
hack of productivity do nothing except for the task you set
do nothing except for the task you set out to achieve.
out to achieve. That's it. So everything that people do
That's it. So everything that people do in order to increase productivity that
in order to increase productivity that is not working on the task at hand is by
is not working on the task at hand is by very definition making them less
very definition making them less productive like period. And so I think
productive like period. And so I think people have these very long routines. I
people have these very long routines. I think they have these like I got to get
think they have these like I got to get in the mood. I got in this mode. It's
in the mood. I got in this mode. It's like what if you could start taking
like what if you could start taking action despite your mood and then get
action despite your mood and then get into the mood faster through taking the
into the mood faster through taking the action. And so all of the things that
action. And so all of the things that have made me more productive in life
have made me more productive in life have been through elimination not
have been through elimination not addition. And so it is eliminating
addition. And so it is eliminating outside stimulus besides the one task
outside stimulus besides the one task that I'm working on. And so if we think
that I'm working on. And so if we think the hypothetical ideal or hypothetical
the hypothetical ideal or hypothetical extreme of the most focused person in
extreme of the most focused person in the world is that that person would do
the world is that that person would do literally nothing besides that one thing
literally nothing besides that one thing which means they wouldn't eat, they
which means they wouldn't eat, they wouldn't sleep. Now at some point you're
wouldn't sleep. Now at some point you're like okay well in order for he has to
like okay well in order for he has to eat and he has to sleep. Okay. So every
eat and he has to sleep. Okay. So every other hour is just this one thing. And
other hour is just this one thing. And so if we take that as a hypothetical
so if we take that as a hypothetical extreme, we want to approximate that or
extreme, we want to approximate that or get as close as possible to that extreme
get as close as possible to that extreme as humanly possible. And so for me, it's
as humanly possible. And so for me, it's good night's sleep, knowing what I'm
good night's sleep, knowing what I'm going to start on the day before.
going to start on the day before. Caffeinate earplugs. I I double ear
Caffeinate earplugs. I I double ear plug. I put the plugs and I put the
plug. I put the plugs and I put the things on. And I work in a room that has
things on. And I work in a room that has no windows. Now some people are like
no windows. Now some people are like that's depressing for me, but for me it
that's depressing for me, but for me it allows me to lose myself in my work, not
allows me to lose myself in my work, not get distracted by something that's going
get distracted by something that's going on outside.
on outside. Well, I was just about to say I'm glad
Well, I was just about to say I'm glad you brought up environment because
you brought up environment because everyone has an environment they thrive
everyone has an environment they thrive in. So I'm the same. I need I need
in. So I'm the same. I need I need instrumental music. I don't can't have
instrumental music. I don't can't have music with lyrics when I'm thinking like
music with lyrics when I'm thinking like I just I just can't do it. So I I have
I just I just can't do it. So I I have some artists that I'm happy to listen to
some artists that I'm happy to listen to instrumentals of. It also can't be songs
instrumentals of. It also can't be songs that I know. It has to be music that's
that I know. It has to be music that's totally unpredictable and totally random
totally unpredictable and totally random because it helps me with creativity.
because it helps me with creativity. Then I do need windows. I need natural
Then I do need windows. I need natural light, but I need to not see anything
light, but I need to not see anything real happening. So it's like sky tree.
real happening. So it's like sky tree. It's like it's uh nondescript and
It's like it's uh nondescript and there's not like a mall.
there's not like a mall. Correct. Yeah. Not people. It can't be
Correct. Yeah. Not people. It can't be people. And I I can't work in noisy
people. And I I can't work in noisy coffee shop. Like I can't work in
coffee shop. Like I can't work in environments like that. And to me, the
environments like that. And to me, the environment is more important than this
environment is more important than this whole mood builder thing
whole mood builder thing because that's like deep work. Like
because that's like deep work. Like you're in the cave doing the thing.
you're in the cave doing the thing. Can I can I tell a wild example?
Can I can I tell a wild example? Yeah.
Yeah. So I believe you if you control the
So I believe you if you control the conditions, you can control the outcome,
conditions, you can control the outcome, right? If you know all the variables.
right? If you know all the variables. And so if we want to be productive, we
And so if we want to be productive, we want to control as many of those
want to control as many of those conditions as possible. And so to type
conditions as possible. And so to type hypothetical extreme, if I were to say,
hypothetical extreme, if I were to say, "Hey, I guarantee um that everybody
"Hey, I guarantee um that everybody who's listening to this, if we were all
who's listening to this, if we were all in one room, I could get everyone naked
in one room, I could get everyone naked without saying a word." People would
without saying a word." People would hear that and be like, "Oh my god,
hear that and be like, "Oh my god, that's insane."
that's insane." What I would do is I would lock all the
What I would do is I would lock all the doors and I would turn up the the heat
doors and I would turn up the the heat to 200 and then just wait. And
to 200 and then just wait. And eventually everyone would get naked. And
eventually everyone would get naked. And the point to that is that we can
the point to that is that we can reconstruct the environment to get the
reconstruct the environment to get the desired outcome if we control as many of
desired outcome if we control as many of those variables as possible. And so you
those variables as possible. And so you if you don't feel as productive as you
if you don't feel as productive as you want, you get distracted easily, you
want, you get distracted easily, you might not have even given yourself a
might not have even given yourself a shot,
shot, right? And if you're trying to work
right? And if you're trying to work while having your notifications on,
while having your notifications on, while letting people text you and call
while letting people text you and call you, and you're at, you know, in a in an
you, and you're at, you know, in a in an area where people are coming by and
area where people are coming by and like, is this is this chair free? Is
like, is this is this chair free? Is this table free? And you're constantly
this table free? And you're constantly getting pulled. It's like, you haven't
getting pulled. It's like, you haven't even gotten a chance. And maybe you have
even gotten a chance. And maybe you have a roommate who who walks in and out,
a roommate who who walks in and out, maybe they listen to music. I'm like,
maybe they listen to music. I'm like, and the thing is is that many people are
and the thing is is that many people are in those conditions and they're like,
in those conditions and they're like, man, I I think I have I think I have a
man, I I think I have I think I have a medical condition. I think I need to get
medical condition. I think I need to get medicated. And it's like, dude, you
medicated. And it's like, dude, you didn't give yourself a shot. Like Jerry
didn't give yourself a shot. Like Jerry Seinfeld talks about how his his writing
Seinfeld talks about how his his writing condition is he has a desk in a room
condition is he has a desk in a room that has nothing else and he's got a pad
that has nothing else and he's got a pad and he's got a pen
and he's got a pen and he's he doesn't have to write but he
and he's he doesn't have to write but he can't do anything else.
can't do anything else. And so if we define commitment as the
And so if we define commitment as the elimination of alternatives then we need
elimination of alternatives then we need to commit to the work. Yeah.
to commit to the work. Yeah. Right. If focus is anything that is not
Right. If focus is anything that is not the work is not the work then that's it.
the work is not the work then that's it. And so I think that we get there through
And so I think that we get there through elimination not through addition.
elimination not through addition. Yeah. I felt that. I felt that. I think
Yeah. I felt that. I felt that. I think it's going to help a lot of people. And
it's going to help a lot of people. And I I you're so right. Like even it's so
I I you're so right. Like even it's so funny you say that. Up until 6 months
funny you say that. Up until 6 months ago, I started to think I was like,
ago, I started to think I was like, has my brain just been rewired by Tik
has my brain just been rewired by Tik Tok?
Tok? Like I was like, have I really lost my
Like I was like, have I really lost my ability
ability for deep work? And I was having this
for deep work? And I was having this thought probably like six maybe 12
thought probably like six maybe 12 months ago
months ago because I was racking my brain about my
because I was racking my brain about my new book and it wasn't as clear as it
new book and it wasn't as clear as it used to be and whatever.
used to be and whatever. And I just started to do what I always
And I just started to do what I always used to do.
used to do. Yeah. And all of a sudden it's all gone
Yeah. And all of a sudden it's all gone away. And I was like, I'm writing like
away. And I was like, I'm writing like for eight hours a day, Saturday and
for eight hours a day, Saturday and Sunday on a new book every week. I love
Sunday on a new book every week. I love it. I'm in the zone. I'm in the room
it. I'm in the zone. I'm in the room that I write in. And and I was like, oh,
that I write in. And and I was like, oh, it's it's it's right there. It's just I
it's it's it's right there. It's just I didn't give myself the opportunity
didn't give myself the opportunity because I was trying to do it with the
because I was trying to do it with the other
other distress. Trying to squeeze it in. It's
distress. Trying to squeeze it in. It's like you can't squeeze it in focus. It's
like you can't squeeze it in focus. It's a it's a jealous mistress.
a it's a jealous mistress. It requires all your attention.
It requires all your attention. Yeah.
Yeah. Love it. Alex, we end every episode with
Love it. Alex, we end every episode with a final five. These questions get asked
a final five. These questions get asked to everyone. Um, and so these are your
to everyone. Um, and so these are your final five. They have to be answered in
final five. They have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
one word to one sentence maximum. Okay.
Okay. So, question number one, Alex, what is
So, question number one, Alex, what is the best advice you've ever heard or
the best advice you've ever heard or received?
received? Do so much work it would be unreasonable
Do so much work it would be unreasonable for you not to be successful?
for you not to be successful? Second question, what is the worst
Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
advice you've ever heard or received? Follow your passion.
Follow your passion. Question number three, a piece of advice
Question number three, a piece of advice you wish you received sooner.
you wish you received sooner. Find people better than you and do
Find people better than you and do whatever you can to get them to help
whatever you can to get them to help you, including helping them first
you, including helping them first without expectation.
without expectation. Question number four, a lesson that took
Question number four, a lesson that took you far too many times to learn.
you far too many times to learn. Focus. One thing all in.
Focus. One thing all in. And fifth and final question. We ask
And fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on
this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law
the show. If you could create one law that everyone had to follow, what would
that everyone had to follow, what would it be?
it be? Everyone has to give all their wealth
Everyone has to give all their wealth away at the end of their life.
away at the end of their life. I love that one.
I love that one. But not to your kids, but not No, but it
But not to your kids, but not No, but it has to Yeah, exactly. It has to be given
has to Yeah, exactly. It has to be given away
away to kids or every or It doesn't matter.
to kids or every or It doesn't matter. Yeah. No, not to your kids like to Yeah.
Yeah. No, not to your kids like to Yeah. Yeah. You're saying beyond your kids.
Yeah. You're saying beyond your kids. Yeah. My friend just told me the other
Yeah. My friend just told me the other day that his dad just took him out the
day that his dad just took him out the will and his dad's given all his money
will and his dad's given all his money away to charity and all the kids are not
away to charity and all the kids are not getting anything. He was heartbroken. He
getting anything. He was heartbroken. He was like, "Oh god, I thought I was going
was like, "Oh god, I thought I was going to pay off the mortgage on my house."
to pay off the mortgage on my house." It's so funny. So,
It's so funny. So, there's a Sanskrit saying around that
there's a Sanskrit saying around that which is um
which is um uh if you have a good son, there's no
uh if you have a good son, there's no need to accumulate wealth. If you have a
need to accumulate wealth. If you have a bad son, there's no point to accumulate
bad son, there's no point to accumulate wealth.
wealth. And so at the end of the day,
And so at the end of the day, that's I mean that's my worldview, which
that's I mean that's my worldview, which is the reason that I I want the reason
is the reason that I I want the reason that I would want the game to be
that I would want the game to be structured so that everybody has to give
structured so that everybody has to give all their stuff away at the end is
all their stuff away at the end is because if you look at second and third
because if you look at second and third order consequences of that, the people
order consequences of that, the people who are the best at allocating or sorry
who are the best at allocating or sorry aggregating capital, the people are the
aggregating capital, the people are the best at making money uh would be the
best at making money uh would be the ones who are also the best at allocating
ones who are also the best at allocating it. And so you'd actually have the the
it. And so you'd actually have the the best tools and the people who are best
best tools and the people who are best skilled to use them. And so if you know
skilled to use them. And so if you know you have to give it away, then at some
you have to give it away, then at some point near the the later part of your
point near the the later part of your life, you would stop trying to amass um
life, you would stop trying to amass um and start trying to you'd focus on
and start trying to you'd focus on giving. And I think most people who do
giving. And I think most people who do give get addicted to giving because they
give get addicted to giving because they realize they actually it fills a hole
realize they actually it fills a hole that the wealth never did. Yeah.
that the wealth never did. Yeah. Right. And so what ends up happening
Right. And so what ends up happening though is that from a societal
though is that from a societal perspective is that if all the best
perspective is that if all the best allocators of capital then tried to
allocators of capital then tried to solve all the world's problems with the
solve all the world's problems with the capital they had, so many fewer problems
capital they had, so many fewer problems would exist that would the whole world
would exist that would the whole world would get better. The other downstream
would get better. The other downstream effect of that is that it would get rid
effect of that is that it would get rid of a huge amount of kind of the
of a huge amount of kind of the cronyism, the the nepotism, the things
cronyism, the the nepotism, the things where, you know, these these seventh
where, you know, these these seventh generation massive, you know, wealth uh
generation massive, you know, wealth uh trust fund, you know, kids were who like
trust fund, you know, kids were who like it doesn't serve the kids either. You
it doesn't serve the kids either. You look at those families, they're a mess.
look at those families, they're a mess. Um,
Um, yeah. Yeah. On on on so many reasons.
yeah. Yeah. On on on so many reasons. Um,
Um, and so I'm a big believer in equal
and so I'm a big believer in equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. And so
opportunity, not equal outcomes. And so if everybody's slate was clean day one
if everybody's slate was clean day one because no one got daddy's inheritance,
because no one got daddy's inheritance, then everyone starts at zero as close as
then everyone starts at zero as close as possible. Obviously genetics, you know,
possible. Obviously genetics, you know, can can play play a factor there, but I
can can play play a factor there, but I think that's as as equal of a start as
think that's as as equal of a start as we can get. And then everyone starts at
we can get. And then everyone starts at zero and and the ones who super win then
zero and and the ones who super win then turn into super givers.
turn into super givers. And I like that.
And I like that. Yeah. And if you don't, one thing I've
Yeah. And if you don't, one thing I've learned about that as well is if you
learned about that as well is if you don't give now, you won't give later.
don't give now, you won't give later. this feeling of like when I get a
this feeling of like when I get a million dollars I'll give more. It
million dollars I'll give more. It doesn't work that way. It's it's a
doesn't work that way. It's it's a proportion like it will hurt 10% at a
proportion like it will hurt 10% at a million dollars. It will hurt 10% at
million dollars. It will hurt 10% at 100k. Like it's not that's not going to
100k. Like it's not that's not going to change. And another phrase that we'd
change. And another phrase that we'd always hear in the monastery was uh God
always hear in the monastery was uh God doesn't see how much you give, God sees
doesn't see how much you give, God sees how much you hold back.
how much you hold back. And so that's why I like your law a lot
And so that's why I like your law a lot because it's that feeling of like,
because it's that feeling of like, hey, you know, at the end of it, I I
hey, you know, at the end of it, I I gave it all. Uh, the book is called $100
gave it all. Uh, the book is called $100 million Money Models, part of the $100
million Money Models, part of the $100 million series. Alex, I hope this is the
million series. Alex, I hope this is the first of many, many conversations we
first of many, many conversations we have online and offline. Truly loved our
have online and offline. Truly loved our time together. And I'm honestly, I've
time together. And I'm honestly, I've become a bigger fan spending this time
become a bigger fan spending this time with you and uh this this was a
with you and uh this this was a masterass for so many. I'm going to be
masterass for so many. I'm going to be sending this to a lot of people I know
sending this to a lot of people I know who need to There's there's some
who need to There's there's some podcasts that you do and you're just
podcasts that you do and you're just like, "Yeah, I'm going to send this
like, "Yeah, I'm going to send this personally to people in my life who I
personally to people in my life who I think this is going to change for." So,
think this is going to change for." So, thank you so much, man.
thank you so much, man. I'm super humbled and very honored. So,
I'm super humbled and very honored. So, thank you so much for having me.
thank you so much for having me. Thank you, man. If this is the year that
Thank you, man. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're
you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to
trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin
listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative
on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods
self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and the secret to
that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're
genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your
trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one
lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you. Just because I like it, that
for you. Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like as an
doesn't give it any value. Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all of
artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when
the value. That's the success comes when you say, "I like this enough for other
you say, "I like this enough for other people to see
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