This content outlines a five-stage journey individuals experience after receiving a late diagnosis of ADHD or autism, focusing on the emotional and identity shifts involved in understanding and accepting their neurodivergence.
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Have you just been diagnosed with ADHD
or autism and you are going through an
identity crisis? Don't worry, we have
got you covered. We're going to take you
through the five stages that you will go
through after receiving a late diagnosis
>> from two people that have been there.
Welcome to Late Bloomers, where we are
getting our lives together.
>> A little bit late, but eventually.
>> Okay, so late diagnosis. How old were you?
you? >> 36
>> 36
>> and I was 40. So, both late. Me later.
>> Must be the first time you've ever been
later than me for anything. [laughter]
>> Yeah. And I'm newer as well, aren't I?
>> You are. So, I'm interested to see where
you are on your five stages of late diagnosis.
diagnosis. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Let's find out.
>> Let's get into it.
>> Stage one
is absolute confusion.
>> Well, confusion meaning you actually
aren't broken. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
and you always thought you were.
>> Yeah, we're not only broken.
>> If you are late diagnosed, I'll speak
from the ADHD perspective. You have
lived with crippling self-hatred
self-hatred
and self-beliefs that sound like I am
lazy. I am useless. I'm a let down. I've
got terrible attention to detail. I quit
everything I start. I'm a horrible
friend. I'm unreliable.
Just just a nasty laundry list of
terrible things that you say to yourself
on a daily basis. And you believe
they're 100% correct.
>> Yeah. Well, it's the basic things. And
from knowing you, like even not really
being able to keep a tidy house or make
your bed, you were like, "Well, there
must be something wrong with me then cuz
everyone else in the world is able to do
this with relative ease."
>> And there is something wrong with you.
Yeah. Well, that's
>> it's just happens to be ADHD, not a huge
moral failing. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it is so confusing because it rocks
the core identity that you've always had
about yourself.
So, it is a massive shock. I think
the kind of silver lining in all of that
confusion is it gives you a lifeline for
the first time ever, which is
I'm I may not be to blame. I may not be
the world's most useless adult human.
>> Yeah. I I can't I can imagine lifeline
is a good way of putting it because it
definitely isn't going to change the way
you feel overnight. like like you're not
going to all of a sudden get the
diagnosis and be like, "Oh, right, cool.
So, none of that what I thought about
myself is true."
>> You're still going to have a hangover of
thinking those things about you.
>> It's the start of a really long journey.
I think look, when we're talking about
the five stages that you're going to go
through, this is probably going to take
people years >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> to kind of get to the end point, which
is actually a really good, really happy
place. What about you? What was your
kind of oh my god I'm not broken? Mine
was obviously like I'm not a lazy
useless loser.
>> Yeah. Well, my confusion is is very real
but it's it's very different. So I
didn't have the same level of sort of
hatred or self criticizing that you did.
Um there are some things in my life that
sort of don't make sense to me that did
make sense to me before my diagnosis. So
like when I used to drink alcohol every
day. I honestly believe that that was
completely trauma related. Now I'm sort
of struggling with the idea of like, oh,
I've read so much already since I've
been diagnosed about autistic people and
their relationship with alcohol cuz you
feel less autistic. So I'm like, has
that got something to do with it? It's
like, yeah, it's quite so it is quite
confusing. The the other sort of funny
thing was um I always just thought I was
rude. I just thought I was a bit like
blunt, bit direct. I can imagine people
frustrate me, but it never used to
bother me. I was like, well, it's me. Do
you know what I mean? If you don't like
me, don't like me. But now it's like,
oh, maybe maybe I'm not like rude. I
just have in an innate need for accuracy
and I'm not correcting the person cuz I
want them to feel bad. I just want
accuracy. And yeah, I don't like. So
yeah, it is confusing, but it is
confusing for me, but definitely not.
I'm not coming from a place of I hate myself.
myself.
>> So mine's very much like, oh my god, I'm
not broken. And yours is like, oh my
god, I'm not actually rude.
>> I'm not I'm not actually rude. And like
maybe I make a little bit more sense now.
now.
>> Of course. >> Like,
>> Like,
>> of course. Okay, stage two is
permission. Oh, that's so real. So, >> aka
>> aka
>> I don't need to pretend anymore.
>> Yeah, like this.
>> Like after the confusion swamp, this
next one is so tough to walk through.
It's both beautiful and horrific at the
same time.
It's when you realize you have been
pretending to be normal your entire life.
life.
Like that is a devastating realization,
right? Like I like weren't you guys all
pretending to be human? No, they were
just doing it. It came quite naturally.
You shouldn't have to feel like you are
competing for an Oscar to pretend to be
a neurotypical person. But that's what
we all do. Everybody desperately wants
to look normal. So for me
that came with a desperation to be seen as
as
clean and tidy. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Organized. Someone that was reliable.
Someone that wouldn't be late. And you
are just swimming up tide your whole
life. You're playing against yourself. And
And
in that moment when you get diagnosed,
it's like,
so I don't have I don't have to wear
this mask that by the way is so heavy.
Like for me to pretend to be really
clean and organized
is a full-time job. And even then, [laughter]
[laughter]
>> like I I still don't get it right. So,
it's like this freedom that says you
don't have to pretend to be for me super
tidy, super organized, super good with
details. That's okay. You get to see
that in the kind of sphere of your ADHD.
But it is so destabilizing because it's
like if I'm not pretending to be a
normal human, what am I like? What am I?
Who am I?
>> Yeah. Something really strange has
happened to me in this this one
specifically for me because I think that
we thought I was autistic before I got
diagnosed. So like sensory issues,
crowded spaces, plans changing, there
was a lot of that accommodated for. So I
thought to myself when I was diagnosed,
nothing's really going to change. But it
really has. And it's and it's and I
think it's on a subconscious level
because I'm not making these choices.
But this I don't need to pretend
anymore. I'm I'm more autistic since
I've been diagnosed with autism. And and
it's not a choice. Like I it's
even little things like I went to do the
washing up the other day and like the
food collector thing um was full of like
gross food and for 20 years I just
picked that up and put it in the bin.
But like I picked it up and I was
immediately like oh my god grossed out
over like overwhelmed. And I'm like,
that isn't a choice. I'm here by myself.
No one else is around me. I need that in
the bin. Why the hell is this happening
to me?
>> Like, it's it's really strange >> because
>> because
>> regression, I think they call it. >> Regression
>> Regression
almost sounds slightly negative.
Permission unmasking. It's like you who
you really are underneath that mask of
I'm fine alpha male that you wore for so
long. Out comes all these little kind of
neurody divergent.
>> Somebody who's scared of the plug.
That's who comes out. The food plug.
>> It's fine. You get to be
>> scared of the plug. you get to be.
There's also though with permission,
>> although it's like incredibly
destabilizing to your entire identity
about who you are, there's also a big relief
relief
like you it's almost like a physical
exhale and your shoulders drop because
the game
is over. Or is it just beginning?
support.
>> Aka, wait. I'm allowed to ask for help.
>> No, surely I have to live life on my
own. Deal with all my problems on my own
inside my own head, pretend to everybody
else that I'm fine, and never get help
cuz it's all my own fault and I deserve
to feel terrible. Yes, you realize not
only are you allowed to ask for help,
but that you should be, that you deserve
it, and the people that love you want to
get to know you and want to support you
in those areas. Oh my god, when I go
back to the early days,
this was so hard to me. I was so used to
desperately hiding. So if I'd lose
stuff, I wouldn't tell people. I was
living in a pigsty. I'd clean up before
people came around. Like I just I
desperately wanted to be seen as
functional adult. I was really far away
from that. When we got together, I was
constantly losing stuff, phones, keys, wallets,
wallets,
and I remember my the shame of like
losing my wallet. Again, the memory that
comes to mind is when I met you in
Brighton. I left my wallet on the train
and I just had a full-on panic attack.
Started crying.
And I was kind of letting you into my
world of like, I'm so sad and I'm so
confused and I hate myself. I've lost my
wallet. I don't know what to do. I'm
useless. And allowing you to like be
there for me. But that voice in the back
of my head was like, don't show someone
this. Nobody wants to see this. like you
absolute baby deal with it. Like it's
this push and pull between I want to be
seen and I want to ask for help but also
no nobody's wants a burden. That is so
different now. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> If I lose something it's like babe I've
lost something and you'll be like need
help with a phone call to boots and it's
either like no they've got a WhatsApp or
an email or yes please.
>> Yeah. like and that's taken years.
Learning the language of asking for help
is a whole new thing when I'm like I'm
emotionally dregulated or I'm running
late or I'm overwhelmed or I think I
might be burning out yet again and
telling you and allowing that support.
It's just the most wonderful thing.
>> You're definitely I mean you've got four
years on me for a diagnosis or 5 years.
you're further along than I I'm not even
at the start line on this one yet. I
don't think like I would advocate I know
everything you're saying. Agree with
every word that you're saying. I would
advocate for others to ask for help and
help and accommodation at work and all
of that sort of stuff and help from your
partner, family, parents, loved ones.
But I'm not there yet. Like I but I
don't even know what that would look
like. let alone am I not there yet? Because
Because
I think I would be okay with you. Like I
will communicate with you and I've been
practicing that for years about loud
noises and being over stimulated and
verbalizing when plans change how I'm
feeling and stuff like that and needing
emotional support. I didn't I wouldn't
know what to do if I started feeling
like that in a meeting environment. I
wouldn't feel brave enough yet to be
like, "Guys, I'm like, I need to go for
I would just like power through it."
>> I mean, I don't think you're you're not
doing badly at all, by the way. And I
think that asking for support and
letting people in, the most important
place to do that is the people you live
with. It's
>> your family. And you do do that really,
really well with me. and actually a bit
with sear and it will sound like um I
need some time to go and process this. I
can't react emotionally right now. I
need to go and sit in the room for 10 minutes.
minutes. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Or it will be guys you are changing the
plan. I'm feeling really anxious. Can we
can we put it out on the table? Or it
will be we said we were going to bed and
now you guys are talking. I'm really
confused. What's going on? You're verbalizing
verbalizing
loads more of your internal world and
that's what it is. It's >> verbalizing.
>> verbalizing.
>> Well, I think as well I've got a belief
I don't know whether this is going to be
popular or unpopular. You know,
unmasking at home is beautiful, but I
also believe that masking at work when necessary
necessary
is really important as well. Like if if
we were doing a presentation and all of
a sudden I left like there's you just
the things that make you over stimulate.
Too many people too many meetings. I
know I'm going to be masking for that
hour so I'll just be really tired after.
That's not a place.
>> I think at work is where we can use the mask
mask
build resilience push through. Everybody
does that at work. There's a whole
language of work and a way of being and
you learn it in your particular industry
and you perform it. It's at home. You
must be able to come home, be who you
are, receive support, be loved, be able
to vocalize. And look, I I think the
language is is a huge thing.
>> I never ever knew any of the words that
I use all the time. Now you are going to
have to learn your kind of autistic
version of of what I've been through
like my disregulated lost a wallet panic
attack running late and I'm sweating
like all this stuff.
>> You're going to learn
everything that affects you deeply and
kind of put that into the language
of the family and like you are doing it
and you don't need to rush through it.
You lived a whole life as like a very
straight talking alpha male bloke who
believed I think you needed to get on
with things >> alone.
>> alone. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> In terms of family help that's that's
really tough because my hope would be
for listeners that they've got parents
that would
be so interested and and like oh my gosh
we didn't know. Can we have a convo?
What does that mean? I can't speak to
that at all cuz my mom's not here. My
dad doesn't think ADHD is real.
And you I don't know. You haven't You
haven't really spoken to your parents.
>> No, I've not spoken to them. I mean,
it's only just really happened. So,
maybe we'll see.
>> Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. Okay.
Stage four is
is
developing selfrust.
So aka okay I can be successful my way.
>> There you go. So
I was
not very successful in my 20ies. I drank
a lot, took a lot of substances,
had far too many jobs, far too many
partners, far too many addresses, most
of them unregistered.
And my full-time job really was
pretending to be normal. All of my
energy went to covering up behaviors
that I thought were too shameful to ever
be seen. So, I didn't have a lot of
energy to actually develop some of my
skills. Like, I messed about in music.
And I did do some singing and I I had a
little brief graphics design job and I
worked in a bank for a bit.
I tried so many different things,
but my main thing was pretending.
When you
realize that you have ADHD and you get
the support that you need and you start unmasking,
unmasking,
actually what you'll learn is that you
aren't going to become neurotypical
no matter how hard you try.
You're going to get supported where you
struggle and that will allow you to
double down on things that you're really
good at that you've probably missed.
Such a huge part of the ADHD experience
is having low self-esteem. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz you just feel like a failure.
You're never going to make your dreams
come true with like really low
self-esteem. You got to start finding some
some
self-belief in there. And I think when
you are supported in your neurode
divergence, you can lean into that
creativity, that artistic project, that
research driven brain. Like whatever it
is that's your thing, you get to focus
on that. And like for me, success was
always, you know, those like bros, those
like grind bros. wake up at 4:00 a.m.,
be in the 5:00 a.m. club, go to the gym,
smash down four coffees, take this. Like,
Like,
that's what I thought success was. To be
have a great job, to be financially
free. And what I've realized is you can
lay in bed loads and be successful. You
could wake up at 9:45 and be successful.
You could work in short bursts and then
have a few days off and be successful.
You get to realize that success isn't
one way. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Isn't one thing. It's not defined by
neurotypical people. And you get to make
a like really weird wonky
path to success.
>> Well, on on that note, like my
definition of success is probably
different to yours as well. It's almost
like we've got two different neurodeiveres.
neurodeiveres.
Um because I my particular flavor of
autis autism that I've got didn't
prevent me from being professionally
successful. Um I was in a really good
job 20 years in in the same bank. Um got
to quite a senior level but I hated it.
Like I hated it. There was loads of
masking, loads of bullies, loads of
egos. It was just, you can imagine,
right? Like my sense of justice, even
with the tiny team that we've got, like
imagine just full of bosses that are
just power hungry.
Um, but anyway, so yeah, my my
definition of success is probably more
on the emotional side because I was
really stunted there. Um, and that is
it's easy for me to say with with a job
that's doing quite well, but I always
had that and now I'm doing something
completely different.
>> Um, but I am so much happier.
>> Wow. So, your success for you is
what? More emotions with me and the
kids. just to put it really simply, just
like a higher baseline of like calmness
and happiness, >> right?
>> right?
>> That's probably it in a nutshell.
>> I think as well some of your autistic
traits that we've giggled at. Um, you
are super super super talented with maths
maths
>> patterns I would say.
>> Bit of a cliche. Come on. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
So you will find mistakes
in our accountants work
>> everywhere. I find mistakes everywhere.
>> It's like you can see it. I don't know
what you're looking at, but it's like
you can see these patterns like that's
wrong. That particular percentage hasn't
worked out. You're doing it all in your
head. It's every time every time we're
dealing with numbers, you'll find these
mistakes that that most people don't.
and you've found a way to
use that like you always did. You worked
in a bank so you were always around kind
of numbers and maths. But now as an entrepreneur,
entrepreneur,
>> not as much as you think. That's a bit
of a
>> is it?
>> Everyone everyone even at school level,
please Mr. Bank manager, can I have a
modern apprentichip in the bank cuz I'm
really good at maths. Cool. You won't be
using any of it here. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> But you you do use it now.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you know, you're
always looking at um
how many members in our dub club or
dubby subscriptions or I don't know like
end of year accounts, whatever it is,
like you know, every number, every
percent what's happening. So incredible
and it's so helpful. So you found a way
to take that like autistic trait of
obsessional pattern spotting for you and
apply it to work in
>> the coolest way. And for me it's like
my unbridled obsessional creativity
>> is fully part of what we do. So yeah,
you get to find your areas where you
excel and just double down on those and
they're brill.
>> I completely agree. The one thing on
that though, like to the point that you
made the first where I will spot errors
in pretty much everything that fills me,
I've said it to you before, it fills me
with absolute terror and dread that the
whole world in my mind that means the
whole world is just being run by people
that are inaccurate. Like everything's
wrong everywhere. That's how I feel
because every time I get sent something,
I find mistakes in it. So, does that
mean this everything's not right?
>> Yeah, a little bit.
>> Oh, man. I can't even.
>> But you're operating at a really
different level. It'd be like an Oxford
graduate in English literature
reading things, just normal things that
are written and be like, there's
grammatical errors everywhere and it's
like tiny things that most people
wouldn't spot.
>> You're like that level of maths and
pattern. It must be tough when you're
that level. I don't know what that's like.
like.
>> I don't know. I've never known anything different.
different.
>> And look, the whole point about this
stage 4 is when you double down on your
areas that you're naturally good at, you
start to build that selfrust, you start
to build that self-esteem, and it's just
a way better use of time than trying to
turn yourself normal, whatever that is.
Right, on to stage five, which is our
final stage, which is fulfillment,
>> aka I can have a beautiful life.
>> Oh, yeah, baby.
>> There you go. >> And
>> And
you really, really can.
I don't think I ever would have believed
in my 20s or early 30s I would ever have
the life we have now. And that isn't
just being idiots on the internet,
running podcasts and writing books. It's
being calm and happy, not having that
enemy in my head constantly. It's not
being like anxious, hating myself,
letting everyone down. Like, and my ADHD
hasn't changed.
>> I'm as useless. I'm using that word like
in a jokey way. I'm as useless today as
I was then. I just treat the thing
differently. I don't try and beat it out
of myself. I'm kind to it. I support it.
I ask for help. I don't expect myself to
be neurotypical. And I go and have so
much fun with family and friends and
work and creativity. And it's just so
cool that you can go from absolutely
hating yourself, what I would have
called the dregs of so society in terms
of my life choices to something that's
just peaceful and beautiful. Go on. What
are you giggling at?
>> I was just in my head playing out what I
was going to say. And you said that you
in a jokey way, you're as useless as you
ever been. I would say I'm as rude as I
ever have been, but but I can forgive
myself. And actually, more importantly,
with people knowing now that I'm
autistic, they're like, "All right, he's
not like picking on me. He's just that's
the way he is."
>> So, like maybe it makes them feel a bit
better as well.
>> I would say you're
>> just about to say more rude >> through.
>> through.
>> Oh my god. through the eyes of like
a normal person
who was using kind of normal societal
standards. I'm picking my words very
careful here. Yes, you would be in the
last few months more rude.
>> Careful, babe. Like the internet thinks
I'm the nicest person in the world.
>> You are. Hey, you are the nicest person
in the world to me.
>> Yeah, that's that's [laughter] pretty
much it. Stop and see it as well.
>> That's always
>> And Lily. Yeah,
>> that's No, but I don't think it's rude.
I would now what I used to see as
rudeness I now think of as you being
direct. So you're more direct on a call.
I don't want to know how the weekends
are. Thank you. I don't like small talk.
Can we talk about work? Lovely. Direct
actually saves us all five minutes of >> weirdness.
>> weirdness.
But what I'm so excited about for you,
because looking at the kind of five stages,
stages,
like I've come through pretty much all
of this. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And I'm at the fulfillment level. Like I
am so happy. I'm so known. I'm so
myself. I don't have any shame about my
ADHD behaviors. I know all the bloody
lingo. It's really supported. We've
written books. Life's brilliant. I love
work. I love family. Like, it's Thank
God. Never thought I would have got here.
here.
>> The only shame you're you're feeling is
the fact that I was autistic. You've you
said you've thought back and you're
like, "Oh my god, I told him off. I like
had a go at him and that."
>> I said he needed to smile more. I said
he needed to be more social. I'm like,
"Oh my god." But what makes me excited
when you were going through these
stages, you were like, "I don't even
know if I'm in the support properly."
stage three. So, you are going to get so
much more support from me, from other
people. You're going to learn the
language. You're going to get to know
you so much better. The selfrust. I
think that you already have that in
terms of work, but you you kind of said
success was your emotional life. You're
going to go deeper into what your
emotional life is like. I'm so excited
for that. And then yeah, stage five,
what your fulfillment is going to be like
like >> because
>> because
like you're just getting to know
yourself through this other lens and I
Yeah. Where's it going to end up? Like
where is your most fulfilled
iteration? It might be never leaving the house,
house,
>> playing card, doing math. I don't know.
>> I don't even think the most fulfilled
would ever be never leaving the house.
I'm like joking, but like what do you
think if you were going to We can come
back to this episode in 5 years.
>> Let's see what happens. This is just the
start. I don't think I need to know. You
didn't know at the start, did you?
>> So, let's see.
>> Have you enjoyed this episode?
>> I have. I do need to get off this chair
though cuz my leg is completely numb and
I need to move it.
>> Asking for support. You are moving
through stage three, guys. This has been
the late bloomers podcast where we have
spoken to you about the five stages of
having a light diagnosis. We hope light
>> not light late
>> definitely not light not the light version
version
>> autistic [laughter] light
>> the expanded pack. We hope it's been
helpful. If it has give us a like, a
share, a comment, a review, all of those
things that you can do and we really
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