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Meet The Consultant That Makes Anyone Go Viral | School of Hard Knocks Podcast | YouTubeToText
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Core Theme
This content emphasizes that virality and success in content creation are engineered through strategic planning and understanding audience psychology, rather than being a matter of luck. It also highlights the importance of authenticity, consistent effort, and building genuine connections with an audience to achieve long-term success in the creator economy and business.
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Adley, how many views are you doing a
month right now?
>> 1.3 billion. And that's a little conservative.
conservative.
>> That's unreal.
>> You can literally engineer virality. We
never make a video without knowing
exactly what we want this comment
section to look like.
>> So, what you're saying is for everyone
watching, it's not luck. There's a formula.
formula. >> 1,000%.
>> 1,000%.
>> They always like to say, "Oh, I'm shadowbanned."
shadowbanned."
>> It's not the concept. Never the concept.
>> People have been sold a lie that is
keeping them small.
>> There's someone out there. They want to
be a creator, but they just don't
necessarily know how to get started.
What's the playbook?
>> So, we tell them to start with a method.
And if you you will never have an issue
getting views.
>> Sometimes the smallest things in your
video can be the difference between 1
million views and 10 million views.
>> And so, if you can plant those things
intentionally, that's what we teach
people how to do. Why would you not put
them in every video?
>> Adly, if me and you died tomorrow and
you had one more guiding principle to
leave with the younger generation, what
What's going on everyone and welcome
back to the School of Hard Knocks
podcast. I'm James and I'm here with
Jack and Josh and we are at for the
first time ever in Nashville, Tennessee
with an incredible guest for you guys
today. One of the most viewed content
creators on planet Earth, Adley Kinsman.
Adley, how many views are you doing a
month right now?
>> About 1.3 billion. And that's a little conservative.
conservative.
>> That's unreal. She said she she said 1.3
billion views a month
>> with a B
>> with a B, which is >> organically,
>> organically,
>> which is incredible. But the fascinating
part though is,
>> you know, you're a creator, but most
content creators are broke. You're
making a lot of money while you're doing
it as well, which which is fascinating,
guys. Adley's making millions of
dollars. She's built an incredible
brand, and we're going to be diving into
all of it today. Where I want to start
things out is I want to go back to when
you're 23 years old. And you know, for
those that don't know, ad you started
out in the music industry.
>> I did.
>> You're coming off The Voice. You signed
a a bad record deal and you went
bankrupt. What was your mindset like
when you're like, man, I I I got to I'm
I'm I'm going to I'm going to flip the
switch. I'm not going to let this be my
end all beall.
>> I think it was having real confidence in
my own abilities to entertain people.
You know, when you know deep down that
you have a gift and that you're good at
something or something comes naturally
to you. I think one of the biggest
things we all have to protect is that
belief in ourselves because the world,
everybody around us, our friends or
jealousy, whatever it is, and even
situations and circumstances that are
going to happen like signing a bad
record deal are going to give you all
these reasons to make you more fearful
and try to give you all these reasons
why you can't. And I think for a long
time we have to have enough fortitude to
be our own biggest cheerleaders and to
pull ourselves up and bootstrap it every
single morning and get up and just say I
do believe in myself. I do believe in
myself. Even on days you don't feel like
it. I think if you get delusional enough
and kind of tell yourself we're going to
make it. We're going to do this thing.
Then you have to have a little bit of um
delusion I think to be an entrepreneur
because for a long time and many many
days you guys know this it can feel
really bleak sometimes and it's like you
just get kicked in the face over and
over again but then eventually I think
you just have to be your own biggest
cheerleader and then eventually other
people will catch on.
>> Where did that self-belief come from? It
was that from your parents that kind of
instilled in you growing up or was it
more or less I've seen how hard I work
on my craft and that's where the
confidence comes from? I do think both.
I think I was getting the validation
like we all are as kids. We're like,
"Oh, you're so good at this." Whether
it's soccer or school plays or whatever,
you get validation and know that you're
kind of good at something and then if
you really enjoy it too, you're going to
be able to withstand that. But I do
think so probably partly the validation
of being told that you're decent at
something enough to where you you
believe it too and you think you can
make a difference in that way. Um I
think that's probably the biggest one to
be honest. And then recognizing that
mindset is so malleable and I'm an in
like I can be influenced easier than I
would like. And so I'm very particular
about my inputs and controlling my
inputs of what I listen to, the people
that I'm around and making sure those
are edifying conversations. Otherwise,
you can start to believe the lies pretty quickly.
quickly.
>> You uh you started in the music space.
What was that experience like? Like what
got you into music in the first place?
And what was that process of you wanting
to go on the show The Voice? I know we
know what things happen fast forwarding
later, but kind of walk us through that.
What was, you know, what inspired you to
first get into music in the first place
and what was that experience? Not many
people get the experience to go on a
show like that.
>> That's so true. You know, I say I
started playing guitar when I was 10,
but I didn't get any better. I haven't
gotten any better since I was 11. I
wasn't a great musician, but I loved
music. I loved how it allowed me to
understand people and circumstances
outside of my current experiences. And
so I was just always fascinated with
writing lyrics and then entertaining
people with that, but I wasn't really a
singer and I didn't really try that. I
was just interested in music and always
loved music. But when I went to college,
there was karaoke in Still Water,
Oklahoma. There wasn't much else to do
in Stillwater, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State.
So I would do karaoke on Wednesdays, but
that was really like the extent of it.
And until my sorority sisters dared me
to audition for this like karaoke show,
which was The Voice. And this was season
one or two kind of bridge there. Um, and
so ended up drove through the night
chugging energy drinks to do this dare
because I was the kind of friend who
like wouldn't say no to much. And I was
like, that sounds like a great time.
I'll do it. I've always wanted to go to
Nashville. I love music. So, sure, I'll
go audition for this show and take you
up on the dare. In a nutshell, end up on
the show. And my life had just changed.
I wanted to go work for a nonprofit that
called to write love on our arms. and
they help people struggling with
depression, addiction, self-injury, and
suicide because my dad was struggling
with all of those things. And I was
trying to learn empathy instead of anger
for what he was going through. And so I
wanted to go speak and encourage and
inspire people working for this
nonprofit. And little did I know, God
would show me that a voice that I didn't
know I have and put a microphone in my
hand on a much bigger stage.
>> And and you had a lot of success on the
show and eventually to the point where,
you know, you got a you got a contract,
you signed a record deal. And I think
this is this is really important for all
the creatives out there. Let's talk to
the creatives, the athletes, the
entrepreneurs. One of the most important
decisions that they make is ultimately
whether they want to sign with an
agency, sign a a contract, a record
deal, whatever it may be. You kind of
were gotten to a situation where
>> it was it was not working out in your
favor. What are some things that you can
advise to those young creators out there
when they're in those stages? because
big companies, they can take advantage
of people because especially if you
don't have that business prowess, you
know, behind you, like maybe you didn't
have it at the time. What are some
things, some red flags that looking back
on that that were kind of there that you
could instill in people when they're in
those stages, they're coming up, they're
getting approached by big talent
agencies, you know, whatever it may be,
>> I would say. So, I signed this, let's
put record deals in air quotes because
it was really just an investor, okay?
And he had a record label. Anybody could
just have a record label, right? and he
just had money to fund it and when he
knew I was going to be on the show
somewhere in the interim we signed this
deal and then the show gave me some
leverage right but
>> how did they approach you
>> he was a friend of my mom's from college
and so it was a family thing seemed like
it would be great good Christian guy um
and it I had signed to I didn't have
anything else going for me at the time
that I signed this deal right I wanted
to go work in this cubicle helping
people with depression and now I look at
this deal and I'm like it seems pretty
bad. I sign away commercial rights to my
name for life. Um it's an imper I mean
it's a it's a bad deal. I own nothing
and I don't have a a real shot to ever
own anything and the deal would have
been thrown out in court. It was pretty
unconscionable to do to a human. But um
I didn't have any other leverage at the
time that I understood. I didn't know
anything about the industry. It was an
opportunity to move to Nashville and I
thought how bad could it be? turns out
real bad once you do get a little
leverage and I couldn't then I couldn't
go to meetings without this person and
this person was not a nice people didn't
like to be around him let's say that and
so I realized oh my gosh my entire
future is predicated on my relationship
with this family and I really am trapped
here unless I do something um so my
advice would be if to honestly whether
it's management whether it's an agency
partnerships are very very very
difficult and very few genuinely work
out. Even when you're best friends with
somebody, it's kind of why they say
don't live with your best friend, you
know, like these other sides come out.
And so I would say now I regret nothing
because it get it made me scrappy real
fast. And it taught me what business
actually is. After I was bankrupt, I
realized if you want to solve your own
problems, all business is is solving
other people's problems. And if you
solve other people's problems, you solve
your own by default. So I would hold out
as long as possible. If you are doing
good and you see a path, I would hold
out on partnership, on signing
management, on signing agency for as
long as you can. And then I would still
not do an all-in deal. I would have fair
outs and I would bet on yourself for as
long as you can. I I I think there's so
much value to be said in that because I
mean the like the three of us, we've
been approached by countless agencies,
some of the biggest ones in the in the
world to kind of, you know, come in
there and it's like it's like you said, it's
it's
>> it it's it's a tough decision to kind of
want to give up that ownership and and
give decision rights to other people and
everything flows through somebody else
when if things are going well, things
are going well.
>> Yeah. And I'm sure that feel that feels
awesome like right the attention, the
validation of these big agencies being
like, "We want you. We want to add value
to what you guys are doing in the world
and thinking of what that amplification
could could lead to. But at the end of
the day, you're when you're just
starting out still, like you've got so
much runway still ahead of you. It's
like you kind of want to see what you're
made of first without having to take
that outside decision-making control.
>> The worst decision you can make is an
emotional one. You know, especially when
you're getting that first attention or
maybe you're you're starting to get that
gratification of all the hardware that's
finally coming in. And there's also a
saying that I love is that everything
I'm not makes me everything that I am.
and we talk about like our journey and
just like all the hardships we've gone
through and we talk about like man what
advice would I have given you know
younger James younger Jack younger Josh
on what we would have done differently
on the building of hard knocks but when
we really look at it probably would have
changed nothing because all of those
hardships and all those lessons good or
bad you learn along the way
>> makes you the company and the people
that you are today
>> even the mistakes all the mistakes we
make along the way those are very
valuable lessons like you can't pay for
those lessons. You have to go through
it, right? And so we can all probably
look in hindsight, we wouldn't change
much because those were either the
beatings we needed to take to learn
something the hard way, which is the
best teacher. And it is it is just very
necessary to figure it out through failure.
failure.
>> They they can't teach that in college. I
remember that uh when we did our first
interview with you um you know James had
asked you what were your thoughts on
college and you kept pointing you were
like sorry mom like like but I don't
think that college is like necessary in
today's world. Uh and and it's just it's
it's so true is for the fact of it's
just like hey like you could go to like
business school and they could tell you
like oh this is how you run a company or
be a manager and stuff like that but you
really don't know like that like the guy
or girl that dropped out of school and
is like trying to do it day in day out.
They're probably learning way more than
somebody just sitting in a classroom at
like a university somewhere.
>> Yeah, I totally agree. I think I went to
college, right? It was nice for the
bridge between living with your parents
and being fully fully in the real world.
They're still like somewhat of an
incubator where you get your feet wet
and not like ruin your life or end up
under a bridge. Uh so it was better in
the social aspect I felt, but how
expensive is that to just like have a
training ground for social behavior, you
know, like being a pseudo adult.
>> Where did you go to school?
>> Oklahoma State.
>> Oklahoma State. So Still Water.
>> Still Water, Oklahoma.
>> So if I Let me ask you this then, right?
because you know probably going to steal
water is not a great example but I
always tell people I think what's way
more important than the college you go
to. You can go to the best school in the
world but if it I think it's the
location of where you go to school. I
think it's that city. Go to a place like
Nashville where it's moving. Go to a
place like Austin where it's like
moving. You know we we went to the
University of Texas and it's like
getting out to like a city like that
where there's proximity with people that
are doing things. They're moving. It's
like that's that's more valuable in my
opinion than going to get a degree somewhere.
somewhere.
>> Yeah. Cuz nobody knows what you want to
do at 18. You don't know what you want
to do at 23. You have an idea of it, but
very few people are going to be doing
the same thing at 18, 19 that they are
at 25. Very few, you know, and most
people I have friends in just the most
painful debt that they cannot get out of.
of.
>> We've helped several people get pay off
their student loans. I'm like, you we
would have no way out of this unless you
make triple your salary, which is not up
to you if you're working for somebody
else, you know? So, encouraging people
to be entrepreneurs. Well, let me ask
you guys this. Do you think it can be
taught or do you think people are
naturally born entrepreneurs out of all
the interviews you've done?
>> I think there's some people that have
that initial that innate drive and they
just have those those characteristics
were probably instilled in them early on
and experiences that they went through.
But there's definitely some people at
some point that I feel that they can
they can they can experience like a
mindset shift where they they go and
it's not a lot of people but it's very
few people to where it's just like
they're like man like I I need to make a
change in my life and then they go all
in and as long as they take action they
be consistent with it and they learn
from the mistakes and they make the
necessary pivots they can become successful
successful
>> and and I'll I'll add on to that. I
think once you are exposed to that
little bit of you know entrepreneurial
freedom and and I talk about this a lot.
I think most entrepreneurs take that for
granted. I mean think about it athlete
like we we have the ability to really
travel whenever we want. We can work
from wherever we want. Do you know how
much of a blessing and a gift that is?
And I feel like not a lot of
entrepreneurs like really talk about
that. And we have the conversation, and
I hate to say it this way, but like if
if we had to go back and like work a job
and kind of like, you know, go up in in
in a cubicle and be locked in there, I
don't know how long I could last without some
some
>> There's no going back for anybody on
this couch. No one's going back.
>> It's not an option. Once you taste the
fruits, but it takes I mean, for me, it
took a very It took a long time. I've
been eight different people before I'm
the person that I am sitting in this
chair today. eight different versions of
myself, completely different versions,
but entrepreneurialism I can see now.
It's funny how you can only connect the
dots in hindsight, but now it was always
the umbrella of creating my own
opportunity. And that I think you can
kind of teach. I think a lot of people
do have the ability to spot opportunity
more naturally than others. But once you
start to see opportunity in everything
and be a student of that, like treat it
like a craft of what's the opportunity
today? What's the opportunity in
everything that I'm doing? Then you get
better. It's just like any other muscle.
>> So, I want to talk about seizing that
opportunity because, you know, I think I
think for everybody that has done
something substantial in the creator
economy, at least, you know,
>> if you go back to like a couple years
ago, in your case, you've been in the
game for for for a while now. You know,
what was your you said how long?
>> I think 10 10 years.
>> 10 years.
>> What was your moment of realization
where it's like there is a real massive
opportunity in the creator economy,
right? Because we talk about, you know,
when when we were building Hard Knocks,
it's like, hey, there's a big latch of a
big lack of, you know, financial
education. It's not taught well in
school. And, you know, at at the same
time, it's like the creator economy, you
know, I think in 2020, it was like a
$250 billion industry. So, we're like,
let's put the two of those together.
What was your realization when you just
saw the real power and opportunity in
the in the creator economy? Was that
initial kind of exposure to that? And
were you like, I was going to go all in?
when I went viral. I put some chickens
in a bathtub and grew 100,000 followers
overnight. And so I was still a musician
at that time. So attention to my album,
attention to everything that was adly at
the time, even as a country musician.
>> What platform was that on? >> Facebook.
>> Facebook. >> Facebook.
>> Facebook.
>> Facebook still our bread and butter.
Creators sleep on Facebook.
>> You got to tell that story though. What?
So what happened here? 100,000 followers overnight.
overnight.
>> Like you weren't just trying to go viral
for viral sake. You were trying to do it
to to market your music.
>> Kind of. I this was during bankruptcy
and I a meme network here in town. So I
used to have an office of you could
throw a rock and hit it right here on
Music Row. Um and so it's fun to be back
down here. We're sitting on Music Row
currently. Um but I the guy who runs Be
Viral, Jonathan Burton, still a very
very dear friend. He goes, "I think
you're funny and I understand your
frustration with not wanting to wait for
a suit behind a desk to give you
permission to be successful." And that
was my frustration with the music
industry is you sit around, you wait for
a publisher or label. This was pre- Tik
Tok for somebody to notice you and say,
"You're good enough now. I'll give you a
shot and I'll determine if you can be
successful." Um, but that doesn't sit
well when you know that you're good at
it and you know you're meant to do it.
So, I started making videos and I
started doing them for this meme
network. And at when I first started
making videos, I was learning how to do
this because I'd never made videos,
never done comedy, never anything like
that. So, I started looking at Vine and
I started just copying, trying to get my
muscle memory and do what everybody else
was doing and try to figure out how to
do it. Well, everything was tanking
because it came across so inauthentic
because it was because I was just
copying. And so, nothing's doing well
and I had to have a new video turned
around by 6 a.m. every morning. And so,
it's 1:00 in the morning. I'm exhausted.
I put my little SD card in from the
GoPro that I was filming on. He gave me
a GoPro to film on. So, I put the SD
card in and all the footage is corrupt.
all of it and I had to turn something in
in five hours and I just spent all day
making this bid. And so I'm crying and
my boyfriend at the time, we were very
country and he goes, "Ad, why don't you
just go get those chickens in the
backyard and do something with them?
They make you happy." And I was like,
"Okay, I have no better idea." So I went
in the backyard and I got Ellen
Deheneris, Oprah Henfrey, Chick Norris,
Shakira Chakira. They look alike. I got
Bruce Henner. Thought it was a hen.
Turned out to be a rooster. Got Bruce
Henner. got all my chickens and I put
them in the bathtub and just improvd
this bit. Um, and so he my boyfriend
just walks in on me and I'm curling
Bruce Center's hair and I reveal all the
chickens in the bathtub. Pretty silly,
pretty basic. I turned it in. The meme
company was like, "What is this?" I'm
like, "I'm sorry. All my footage was
gone." And I kind of thought it was
funny though. And so I put it on my
Facebook page overnight. It did 19
million views overnight.
Facebook like that back then.
>> Oh yeah,
>> Facebook had to algo back in.
>> Oh yeah, it did.
>> Oh my.
>> So it had 19 million views overnight and
over 100,000 followers. And I hate that
my back had to be against the wall. I
had to be that desperate for me to just
be my dang self. And when I was myself
and I did what I thought was funny and I
did something funny with my chickens,
that is what resonated with people. So
that has been my guiding.
>> Did that kind of have a you know that
realization that like from now on I'm
going to kind of just lean on myself a
little bit more here. I'm not going to
kind of abide by what other people want
me to do and lean into their guidelines.
Like was that kind of that profound
viral moment that you had that
realization where it's like I know what
I'm doing here.
>> That was huge for me. It still is. I
still get chills every time I think
about that story because anytime I start
to lose my way or be like maybe I should
do something more like this or I start
comparing myself, I just go back to
that. And when I stick to my guns and my
blue ocean, that is when things work
because everybody else is already they
already got their thing and I'm just
going to be a knockoff version of that.
Where's the fire in that? Where's the
novelty there? So, the more we can
create our own lanes, the more you can
create your own lanes, the better off
you're going to be. And I think a lot of
creators right now are caring a lot more
about optics over ethics, right?
Everybody's just trying to make a quick
win, quick butt, and so puck buck, just
trying to make a quick buck. So, people
are just copying other people and
creating slop out there instead of
really taking the time to learn a craft.
and they're wanting to just go from the
bottom of rung of the ladder to the top
rung of the ladder because the creators
they look up to make it look easy. You
guys make it look easy. You look at my
videos that make it look easy and
simple. But this is 10 years of
refinement. It's like writing a good
song. It takes a lot of work to make a
complex emotion sound that simple and
write it in a way that it is. And this
this craft of entertainment of getting
attention is the same thing. And so I
would just encourage everybody to not prioritize
prioritize
uh optics over ethics. they they see the
interview with with a Tom Brady and a
Shack. They don't see the hours of going
downtown day in day out trying to
interview a bunch of people. Uh I want
to talk about Facebook for a second
because your viral video came on
Facebook. And I feel like most people
that create content today, they sleep on
Facebook. They think it's like it's
outdated. Like there's not enough. And
like the three of us like we even like
we caught our first like big
monetization break on Facebook. that
allowed us to like for several months
like pioneer and build our business
because of like them trying to compete
with Tik Tok. And so like I want I want
to hear this from you like like how
important is Facebook for creators? Like
I like and I'm saying this because I
think so many people sleep on it.
>> We and and just add in there four days
ago we just had a 4-m minutee long
video. This is at like 8 million views
right now. You can't get your head
though. I'm just
>> That's what it that's what it is.
Facebook all day. I am the most viewed
as as of last I was told the most viewed
female producer in Facebook and or Meta
and Snapchat history. Wow.
>> Not my face and everything but we
commissioned we directed and we have a
network of things that we've created
over the last seven years that are still
just in circulation you know.
>> Congratulations. Seriously.
>> Thank you. But a single video like I can
I can show you a screenshot from our
Facebook mana business manager of a
single video doing over a quarter
million bucks that took us less than an
hour to make. And at our height, we were
making 18 Facebook videos a day. 15
actors on full-time staff.
>> So, so you made you made 250 racks off
of one video.
>> Off of one video.
>> Off of a Facebook video.
>> Off of a Facebook video. And it was all
that was all on Facebook. I know that's
earned more because that's just the
screenshot from one post of it. We
posted it 40 plus times. It's been all
over Snapchat. It's been everywhere. And
it's still earning money, you know. But
that's just one screenshot. So it takes
I it does take one video to change your
life, but that one video I think changes
your life in the way of showing you
what's possible. It shows you that
confidence of oh my gosh, I can do this
because you still have to show up and
you have to be consistent with it day
over day and over time that's what's
going to change your life. But it takes
one video to get that jump start.
>> So I'm curious if someone out there is,
you know, they want to be a creator, but
they just don't necessarily know how to
get started. What's the playbook of
like, hey, if you want to get to your
first 10K followers, do this.
>> You have to go from it has to be
something you genuinely want to do
because it is not going to be easy at
first and it you will dis get
discouraged. We like to say everybody
has at least 100 bad videos in them that
they have to get out. So, don't make
stuff that you hate and isn't going to
make you jump out of bed in the morning.
And most of us are multi-passionate
people, right? And so where we watch in
the viralish community, a lot of people
get stuck is do I make content about law
or I'm a doctor or but I'm really
interested in baskets like what they
don't know what to make content about
and they they get stuck and they spin
for months and months sometimes years.
And so we tell them to start with an SRS
model um or sorry 5630 method. I would
tell any creator who doesn't know where
to start to do the five, six, and 30
method, which is pick five of the things
that you're interested in that you could
want to make content about and make six
videos in each of those five buckets and
you're going to post for 30 days 100%
unattached to the outcome. Do not delete
anything. Do not even look at the
videos. Don't look at the data until the
end. Just bank those 30 videos and then
post one a day. F six videos in each of
the five styles. And at the end of 30
days, you have thoughts about what you
created, right? Maybe you were really
excited about bucket number one and you
now realize that's unsustainable for my
lifestyle and holy crap that was hard
and I don't want to do that anymore. Or
maybe buckets three and four which you
thought were like okay but that took off
and you actually did really like doing
it. So then take buckets three and four
and focus on month two doubling down on
those. You have to just get into action
and then look at the data and let that decide.
decide.
>> The the point that I want to point out
there it's the action piece of it. It
wasn't that like so so many people they
get into analysis paralysis where
they're like they're trying to make this
one perfect video. They don't like how
they look and it's just like you don't
even know if the type of video you're
going to make is going to hit with the
audience. They might want they like you
might think like oh let me do this like
this is going to be good but they might
want to the audience wants a completely
different piece of content from you. You
just have to figure that out what that
is and you can't do that unless you
experiment with a bunch of different
ideas. Interviews was not our first
piece of content. We didn't we didn't go
out there and be like, "Oh, we're going
to be a business interview channel." No,
we just were passionate about business
media. Like, we just were passionate
about business. So, we we made like 30
different video ideas in the business
space over and over and over again until
we went out and did an interview. And it
got the first one got 100,000 views. And
we're like, "Okay, we should do more of
that interview thing." And then
eventually we're like, "Guys, it's a
no-brainer. The audience is telling us
they like they don't want to hear from
the 20-year-olds about business. They
want they like when we go and talk to
people that have actually played the
game." And that's when we made the
pivot. But you don't get to that point
unless you follow a method like that
where it's like you're taking action
making a bunch of different types of
content. Yeah. And and it gives you the
data back and you just can't get
discouraged. If it's not working out,
you just keep reiterating.
>> Yeah. And you have to and that's the
part that people don't want to do is the
action piece is the failure piece. That
is the only way through. That is the
right of passage. That is what allows
you to play is the failing forward and
looking at the data and being dedicated
to the outcome knowing that you're going
to win. You're going to figure this out.
And if you already know the outcome is
that you win, then it's just how many
failed videos does it take? It will
happen eventually. But that's why we say
to everybody, you have at least 100 bad
videos in there. So, we don't know. You
could hit on video 17. You could hit on
video 76. You could hit on video 712.
You never know when you're going to hit.
But if you keep yourself in this game
and surround yourself with community and
other people who can say what they see
in you on days you forget it, you're
gonna be all right.
>> There there's so so much gold to unpack
here. I got to touch on, you know, two
two things here is first of all, you
brought up uh having those 100 bad
videos. We'll go back to our, you know,
first couple YouTube videos and it's
it's a tough watch.
>> It's a little unbearable sometimes.
>> Oh my god. Don't go. If you're watching
this right now, don't go watch them, you
We we look unckempt. Like it's it's insane.
insane.
>> It and and there's a lot of truth to
that. But it just goes to show and
that's why I'm such an advocate that
look quantity breeds quality. The more
you post, the more data you're going to
get to figure out, hey, like you said,
you double down on this, you 10x that
you you take that idea behind the bar
and you shoot it and you don't touch it
again, you know. Um so I think there's I
think there's so much truth to that. Um,
and then the other thing I want to touch
on is again you you you just have to you
have to stay in the game because for
some people it is their hundth video.
The amount of successful creators that
I've talked to where I I like to ask
them I'm curious how many videos did you
post before you had one that went really
viral and oftent times it's it took them
50th 100th 200th. I tell everybody when
we had we have 7.3 million followers on
Instagram now. when we had we posted 400
times on Instagram and had less than 50 followers.
followers. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> Now that now but that that's the thing.
Now granted before I started the school
of hard knocks, I had grown a personal
channel from 2019 to 2020 on Tik Tok to
about 800,000 followers in 10 months. So
I knew the capability of short form
content and how to go viral. Now that
was having that with with Hard Knocks
and understanding that it's like I
learned the fact of it. If you're just
consistent, if you're feeding stuff to
the algorithm, something can pop as long
as you're diligent about making pivots,
trying different things. Where I wanted
to kind of ask you was a you're you're
hearing that in today's world, the two
biggest opportunities for people are AI
and building personal brands in terms of
somebody wanting to build that personal
brand when when you're kind of advising
people, right? How much of a focus, you
know, and I know that you touched on
this a little bit, but I wanted to kind
of just really get your thought process
on this. People are like, should I make
just content about, you know, I'm a real
estate investor. Should I just make real
estate content or are you more of the
advocate of them making throwing videos
in about having different content
pillars like about family and faith and
and real estate and money and and
talking about their bad investments?
Like are you what is your thought
process on building a real good personal brand?
brand?
>> We are all multi-dimensional people and
I'll give you a case study. Actually,
one of our clients was Brian Mark at the
real Brian Mark. He was doing about $6
million a year as a business coach to
fitness trainers. pretty niche thing and
pretty saturated actually of business
coaches for fitness trainers online and
he understood the power of organic 95%
of his sales were probably coming from
his Instagram and he was stuck at 6
million a year and he couldn't get any
more growth and what his content was was
just very one-dimensional yelling
aggressively at the camera all the time
that's the only dimension of Brian that
we saw and I was like Brian you are a
hilarious person you are so dang funny.
You have an amazing relationship with
your wife. You have a tight sales
system. All you need is more attention.
And we're going to get you more
attention by not being just the
aggressive yelling business coach all
the time. Because if I'm somebody who's
scrolling and I don't like being
screamed at, I'm gone. That's attracting
a very small group of people when you
are a dynamic human. So all we did for
him talked to him one hour a week and my
whole goal was tweaking one thing. one
thing and that was his top of funnel
content to show these other parts of his
personality, these other parts of his
life, his relationship, his humor, the
back end of his finances, all of these
different dynamic pillars that were
going to talk to tangential themes
around his core avatar and just broaden
his message. In less than six months, we
doubled his following and took him from
six million a year to 10 million a year,
tweaking one thing, making him more
dynamic than just being the guy who
yells at the camera all the time.
Well, it just goes to show you where we
love the saying where attention goes,
revenue flows.
>> Amen. And you asked earlier where I
first like was like the creator economy
is it is that when we when COVID
happened and everybody is on their
phones like this, we went from averaging
20 million views a week, which I was
already stoked with, to over 200 million
views a week. And we've been at over a
billion views a month ever since.
because then it was just building
systems to get as much attention as
possible. And this was coming from a
mentor and he told me, Adley, I was
trying to niche down and he goes, "Do
not do not." He goes, "Go as wide as you
possibly can and then you can niche down
and do whatever the heck you want."
>> Who's your content mentor?
>> I have several. Um, I got started from a
guy named Rick Lax who owns a pretty big
network on Facebook and he's a magician
by trade. And he taught me how as a
magician how to hold attention, how to
say, "Hey everybody, look at this crazy
thing while you're doing slide of hand
over here." Which are retention tactics
and engagement tactics and all the
things that we teach in Viralish. Um,
but he as a magician has a really strong
skill set for getting people.
>> I I think I love what you said about the
retention tactics. I one thing that we
preach and and to kind of relate it to
our interviews is sometimes the smallest
things in your video can be the
difference between one 1 million views
and 10 million views.
>> For example, somebody has a you know a
dog in the video and it's going crazy in
the background. Somebody walks by and
they're and it's like the littlest
things like you said waving the hand,
somebody doing something crazy in the
background. It makes the littlest
difference sometimes. And so if you can
plant those things intentionally, that's
what we teach people how to do because
you can literally engineer virality by
taking another step to think about it
and design your comment section in
reverse. We never make a video without
knowing exactly what we want this
comment section to look like. And once
you know that those are the little
things that take you from a million
views to 10 million views, why would you
not put them in every video?
>> So what you're saying is for everyone
watching that it's not luck, there's a formula.
formula.
>> 1,000%. When we looked at all of our
most viral videos, videos that have done
over 300 million views on a single
video, all of our videos that are over a
hundred million views, we have over 50
million or sorry, we have over 50
videos, I'm sorry, we have over 75
videos that have over 100 million views.
>> on a single video, right? And so when
you look at all the best performing
videos, it becomes very clear, the
formula becomes very clear of the cream
of the crop. And you're like, "Oh my
gosh, all of these top performing videos
have the same things in common." So our
formula revealed itself to us. And then
we had to just curriculumize it and be
like, "Okay, what we so innately know
about how to make videos go viral, just
like you guys so innately know it." Now,
how do you teach that to other people?
Because you just know it and you don't
know why. But that's that's been the
hardest part is to articulate this
formula. But now we've done it and we
have a community of the most vi viral
business owners and entrepreneurs on
social media.
>> Let's let's talk about that psychology
of a viral video, right? Because you
know I I know that just like you like we
we obsess over this stuff right here.
You know you you've got your first
couple seconds. You want to go pattern
interrupt curiosity. What is what is
your real psychology and formula for
that viral video regardless of the niche
that somebody's in?
>> Well, you nailed it. That this is so
everybody's like, "Oh, of course the
hook. They're going to say the hook. It
is all that matters. Not all that
matters, but it is the first thing that
matters. We could sit here and dissect
videos till the cows come home and none
of it will matter if nobody sees it.
Like we'll teach anchoring tactics and
we'll teach all these things to people.
And so this girl Aaron came up to me
last month. She was like, "Ad, I tried
the anchoring tactic and you know it didn't."
didn't."
>> What do you mean by that, the anchoring tactic?
tactic?
>> An anchor would be something that you
show in the first few seconds that is an
anchor to what is going to be revealed
later. So helping with like helping with
like retention almost to like get people
to want to watch from start to finish. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> You know who's the master of that?
>> Mr. Beast.
>> Yes, he is. Yes, he is. So there's these
same principles like we're not
reinventing the wheel here. This is
age-old storytelling. This is before
biblical times of what makes a good
story. Look at every movie you like,
every sitcom. If Ross and Rachel stayed
together in season two, would we have 10
seasons of friends? No. If Liam Niss
rescued his daughter from sex slavery
halfway through the movie, would we keep
watching? No. You have to have a hook, a
curiosity, an emotion that happened
here, and you do not scratch that itch
until the very end. We're just all
taking that and putting it in a format
for social media. But it's the same
principles, you know, it just shows up
in different ways.
>> I love the analogy and and I'm I'm
taking that one about the movies, right?
you don't you don't put the the ending
of taken in the middle and and you have
to have that same mindset even with the
short form video. But one of the things
that you said was you don't have to
reinvent the wheel. And I think that
what keeps so many content creators just
stuck and prevents them from creating is
they think they have to invent this new
idea in whatever niche that they're in.
I talk about this all the time. Street
interviews have been around for 20
years. Every single major news
corporation, television, has been
utilizing those for their companies. I I
didn't invent it. I became an innovator
within the niche. Yes. But I want to ask you,
you,
>> how much are you We talk about this a
lot. You know, when I was building my
personal brand on TikTok and went from 0
to 800K, I I would spend an hour plus a
day and people say doom scrolling where
you're just scrolling, but like finding
like great videos that people were doing
to try and, you know, get some
inspiration from them and how could I
add my own creativity to this type of
video. Do you still spend time like
consuming other people's contents and
and studying other viral videos to see
what they're doing to kind of come up
with ideas for your own content that
you're creating or maybe other clients
that you know you're working with? How
much time do you spend diligently kind
of scrolling and consuming other
people's content to come up with those ideas?
ideas?
>> About an hour a day. You were always a
student. What worked six months ago,
what worked four months ago doesn't work
today. And so, especially if you want to
innovate, you can't break the rules
unless you know what they are. So, it's
very important to know what's going on
right now. It's very important to know
the age-old rules, the current rules,
and then take it and twist it and put
your own spin on it. For when we first
started making videos, it was mostly
couples prank type stuff. And so, what
we would do there is get really good at
taking ordinary moments, really
relatable things, and then just 10xing
them, making them feel extraordinary.
For example, if I wanted a dog and my
husband didn't want a dog, very common
relationship thing, very common
relationship argument. So, I would turn
our apartment into a barnyard for the
day to show how much I would just take
everything and 10x it. If we couldn't go
on vacation, I would put a hot tub in
our living room. And so, these are
things that people feel innately like,
"Oh my god, that's she's so me." And the
husband is that's so me. So, the
sharability was high. the association
with us is high because they see
themselves in us, but it's just
exaggerated. So, it's more viral. It's
bigger. It's on a different scale.
>> Something you just said there is
actually what I also believe builds the
best personal brand is a sense of
relatability, thousand%.
>> Because often times when people I start
to I used to say see success, they
become out of reach and they start to
elevate themselves and their lifestyle
and they forget like who their core
audience is and who they're motivating
and who they're actually speaking to.
But you always have to remember it
doesn't matter even though you're
hitting new levels within your business
or just even new stages within life, you
can't forget who that core customer, who
that core viewer is because if you lose
the relatability, you're going to lose
your audience.
>> There's like the the guy that used to
make the content for like there was a
guy that basically he used to make
content where he would like do his day
in the life of like going to like a
corporate job basically and then he was
like he got this big following. And he's
like, "All right, well, I want to quit
my corporate job now and go make
content, like trying to make money on my
own." And his audience just [ __ ] on him
like completely. And it probably wasn't
just because he like, you know, was
doing something better for his life. It
was just sort of the way that he went
about it. It was like he completely just
he's like, "Well, hey, y'all got me
here, so now I'm going to do whatever I
want." and he just completely abandoned
his audience of people that would watch
his videos because they were they were
working they were in the corporate
community and so they watched this guy
and it was just very interesting to see
like it's like hey like you can't like
you know abandon the audience that got
you to where you are.
>> It's so true. How you get somebody is
how you have to keep them. I heard that
once for dating but it's I think even
more true in business and relationship
with an audience. And that's not to say
you can't grow, you can't evolve but you
have to take them with you if you want
them to stick around. They look at
Taylor Swift. She's a wonderful example
of this and she could sell you a water.
She could sell you her spit right now
because she's taking her audience with
them everywhere she goes. She feels like
and I'm not a Swifty.
>> You're not wrong. Somebody would buy that
that
>> other For sure they would.
>> That's a cult following right there.
I've never seen anything like that.
>> No. But she put in the work early to
love on her fans and involve them in the
experiment. She leaves little Easter
eggs for them everywhere. She feels like
one of us who made it. And so they're
excited for her because she hasn't made
them feel forgotten. And then I think
the creators that are trying to make
themselves bigger than life right now
and unapproachable and unrelatable like
they're too cool for school is not going
to last. Even what worked for the Paul brothers,
brothers,
I don't think is going to work now. Like
you're and be Beast, it's almost too big
to feel like one of us who made it
because there wasn't this fandom along
the way. And now the creators who you
see winning are really close with their
audiences on Tik Tok. You have what's
nuts that just ended up on SNL or a Tik
Tok following. Like these are the new
stars of the future and the people who
are connecting with their audience and
their audience helps them get there and
they feel like a true extension their
the brand that they help create feels
like an extension of them. They have
buyin and so to cut that to make that
divide to cut that off it is you're
asking for career suicide.
It's it's such a good reminder because
as like now with with the channel that
we've built, you know, the access that
we've gotten to certain people has like
grown tremendously, but as we've started
to kind of do a little bit more like the
A-listers, we'll we'll get DMs of people
going, "We didn't follow you for this.
We didn't follow you for that." They
they they they like the the off the
street, the random person that nobody
knows. And so, but you have to listen to
that part of the audience. And that's
why I always tell people that it's like,
hey, I'm going to continue to take
advantage of like the access that we've
been granted, but you can't forget that
reason why people followed you.
Otherwise, you're going to lose that
core base and the people that were with
you from the beginning. And you don't
want to lose that part of the audience.
>> How do you find the balance between
letting the comments and letting other
people dictate your business direction
and still giving them a voice, still
listening to them, but not letting them
solely decide where you go. In essence,
letting the haters drive. M
I think I think that's a it's a really
interesting question because I think it
really depends on like the context for
example, right? Like
you're always no matter what you do,
there's going to be a subset of the
community or just viewers who are just
like not going to like the direction you
go. But I think if you get an over like
a resounding voice from the comments
like, "Hey, don't really like where
you're taking this direction. Don't
really like this type of feature." or
whatever it may be or just maybe the
style of video
that is a symptom of like okay
maybe I can try maybe once maybe twice
more but hey this may not be where I'm
going to take my brand in the future but
I'll also say that like I mean we'll
even see like with with our videos like
there's like certain parts of our videos
where people like I don't actually like
the fact that maybe you mention money
for example well it's like well money is
is actually a core pillar of our of our
you know
>> our you know brand and like kind of what
makes our videos what they are. So, I
really feel like there is no perfect
balance of like h you know a lot of like
I don't know. I don't really feel like
there's a perfect balance. What would
what would you say, James? Like is there
like when you when you see comments on
our videos, how do you kind of take that
into consideration for like future
videos that you make in the future?
Well, I mean, I'm always I'm always a
big advocate of like bad engagement is
better than no engagement in most cases.
But at the same time, I think yeah, like
if it's if there's like something like
resounding there where it's like, you
know, general consensus is people don't
like that, then you should probably like
shift away for that. But again,
especially when you get to a certain
scale at mass, there's always going to
be people that find something to kind of
like hate on and and say something
about, and you just you just can't let
it get to you. You just have to keep on
creating great content and keep on
innovating. You know what I mean?
>> As long as you keep it authentic. I
wanted to ask for people that have like
gotten some traction
>> on their videos and then out of nowhere
like it's just not really hitting
anymore. They kind of hit a plateau.
Like for example, we had a point in our
journey where we were stuck at like 150k
on Instagram for like 3 months and we we
made small pivots to our videos to help
us get out of that.
>> But for people that kind of go through
that like plateau like they always like
to say, "Oh, I'm shadowbanned." Yeah. or
>> it's not the content. Never the content.
>> I'm shadowbann
the algorithm changed. The algorithm
changed and now my content doesn't hit.
It's like it's it's anything but the
content sucks.
>> Anything but their fault.
>> I'll just say this. The best comments to
read and it's this I'm a it's awful I'm
saying this is the head of Instagram. If
you read his comments, it's always like
new no new no new no new no new no new
no new no new no new no views or
anything. You go check out the the
videos of their profile. I'm just like well
well
>> 300 view jail.
>> Have you looked at the content you're
making? Like it it honestly makes sense
>> and they but the thing is they think the
content is good. They are precious with
it. But if you want unlimited access to
distribution, you don't make what you
want to watch. You don't make what you
want to watch. You make what they want
to watch. And if you make what other
people want to watch, you will never
have an is an issue getting views. You
think I wanted to make the cringiest
videos on Facebook for three and a half
years and get death threats and make
people waste three minutes of their life
creating rage bait, creating food dump
videos, creating all this stuff. I would
never watch that. I'm not that
interested in it. But the data showed us
that is what people wanted to watch. So
who am I to say, "No, you're going to be
entertained by the same thing I'm
entertained by." Yeah.
>> And I think the courage to be disliked
in this process of creating is also a
right of passage. You have to have your
own convictions. And I'm not saying make
stuff you hate. You have to also like
it. You have to know people are also
going to poo poo you all the way up.
Especially the bigger that you go. That
is just a part of it.
>> But but that's so important because I
think some of the best, you know,
content creation advice that I've ever
heard is you want to make your content
as if if if a complete stranger were to
see your content, would they be inclined
to save or share that video?
>> Yes. If you can do that and and and
remove your emotional attachment. Oh, I
look so good here, you know, and and and
get out of that mindset, it's like you
are going to be so much better off. You
have you have to think about if a random
person saw this, would they care? You
know, we work with a lot of top
entrepreneurs and helping them grow
their personal brands. And I'm going to
cuss here. I'm sorry, but I'm just going
to say one of the one of the the uh best
things that I can tell anybody is stop
making the assumption that people know
who the [ __ ] you are.
>> No one knows. No one knows you. Nobody
knows who you are. Even now with with
>> Yeah. Well, as you guys know, that's
as you guys know, I closed my last deal
and it's like, dude, you've got a thou
you got 5,000 followers. You know, it's
crazy. I I say, look, even now with
with, you know, 17 million followers.
I'm still making this as if people have
never seen. That's why I'm always it's
always a walk up or who am I here with
today? And it's like I'm always trying
to like I always have that mentality
that you want to make it as if they
never have seen you before. And you you
get them in, you know,
>> because you're a pro. And we don't know
that in the beginning. Like we would use
our names like, "Hey, Blake, come over
here." No. Nobody knows who Blake is.
Nobody knows who your neighbor is.
Nobody knows who Adley is. Like, you
have to make it as if it's brand new.
Every single video is a hero video.
There's no last week my boyfriend did
XYZ, so this week I'm going to Nobody
saw that. Now I already feel like I'm
missing out on something. Do I What did
I miss? I got to go back and watch. Ah,
too much. Too much effort. don't make it
any effort for them to pick up and be in
the story immediately.
>> Society has the attention span of a
goldfish today. Probably probably in due
part because of social media. And so
like people don't understand that it's
like it takes it could take a th there's
a thousand different reasons for
somebody to scroll past your video.
>> All we're trying to do all of us is
prevent that half a second of
disinterest. And that is why suspense is
so freaking powerful. Look at all of the
viral videos. took the most viral video
that you could think of that you love.
Now watch it as a student and look at
what was at stake and how high the
suspense was and that will be why you
watch that video and that will also be
the reason it went so viral.
>> I I I have to give you your flowers as
well because you you did a call in our
in our entrepreneur community that that
we had. Oh yes.
>> And uh and you know I there was a one
that just came to mind but even just
throughout the entire call like I I'm
I'm the same way as was like I'm I'm
such a student. That's why I love this
conversation. And when you meet people
that have just had so much success in in
in content it's like you want to be a
sponge to to them and what they're doing
and what they've learned about it. And I
remember I think it was a lady Celia
she's got like a seven figureure
security company and she was asking you
know hey I've got a security company.
How would you make content? and you just
had ideas that came off like that for
her. And I was like, damn, that's that's
a really good idea, you know? So, I
think your ability to kind of take very
boring businesses and concepts and make
them very fun is like a skill and
something that like I I just have to say
like it's it's fascinating that you have that.
that.
>> Oh, thank you. And that's reps. That's
doing it all day, every day, looking at
so much content, being a student. I've
broken down y'all's videos shot by shot.
What is the first opening frame? Is it
blurry? Is it to your back? Is your face
in the front? like everything because
all these little details matter. That's
why it looks so simple to do, but you
realize that people try to copy videos
beat for beat like I'm going to do that
exact same video and they don't realize
how off they are because it is the
nuance, the little bitty things that
make that are the difference between
good and great. If I had a nickel for
every retention graph I've analyzed and
then gone back and fixed the video based
off the retention graph, I would be richer.
richer.
sounded bad, but like that would be
where all the money comes from is the
amount of studying that I've done if I
got paid for as much as I study would be
more than I actually create.
>> So curious to get your thoughts on this.
You know, I'm the same way about content
in a lot of ways that I'm very
analytical and I'm always curious about
like everybody's always going to have a
kind of a different answer, right? And
obviously it's it's you mentioned the
Instagram CEO, you know, he's been
pretty transparent about like, hey, what
drives performance in content? You know,
from my understanding is I always think
of the most important metric on social
media is watch time and completion rate.
They they the the platforms Tik Tok,
Instagram, Facebook, YouTube at and at
the end of the day, they're competing
against each other. They're going to
reward the creators that are keeping
people on their on their platform
watching content longer. What are some
other metrics that you think are, you
know, up there? If if we know that, hey,
watch time is probably the most
important thing. Would you agree with that?
that?
>> 1000%. What are some maybe some other
metrics that you're always kind of
thinking about that's kind of like up
there within with the importance of
watch time when when you're trying to
determine metrics for a viral video?
>> I mean, he really stole the golden
goose. It is watch time. That's why we
made these videos that wasted three
minutes of people's life. We were making
so much more money every second we held
you on the platform. So, if you want to
optimize for anything, watch time. And
people, you can get there in a few
different ways for your channel. Some
people get there and have and heat up
their page by doing one banger a week.
Like right now, I'm not in a place to do
a ton of volume. So, I'm making sure
what I actually post is hot, is going to
be good to keep my page hot and healthy.
But other people, so say I got 52
million views this week. Somebody else
may get 52 million views by doing four
posts a day, right? And so they're
getting their watch time by volume,
which you should do in the beginning to
get your reps in, to learn what you're
doing, and then double down on what's
working. But I could get there the same
way, but with quantity. But you only, to
your point, you only know what quantity
is once you've done enough quality.
>> Right. But and and that's the other
thing as well is one of the biggest
debates is is it quantity or quality?
Quantity or quality. I tell people all
the time for us like the last video that
we've posted on Instagram that has under
a million views was April 2024.
So almost a year and a half ago was the
last time we posted on Instagram and got
under a million views. And when we post
now 1 to 3 million views on a video that
really we don't really gain followers
off that. So now it went from like when
we were starting the channel you have to
tell her Jack the kind of the rule of
thumb that we had about the three posts
a day.
>> Oh yeah. Well, like I said, when we were
starting out, like we weren't doing
interviews initially, and so we used to
have this trade-off
>> company rule. We had
>> a company rule that was like, okay,
well, like day one, you know, is Jack,
day two James, day three Josh. And on
that day, you had to get your three
posts up that were all different unique
ideas to help us experiment and figure
out like what, you know, what help us
get closer to finding what content
people are going to want to see from us.
And if you didn't get your post up that
day, like all you had to get all three.
If you didn't get all three posts up,
you had to Venmo the other guys 25 bucks each.
each. >> Nice.
>> Nice.
>> So, and it was like that because we
wanted to breed that consistency and and
um it wasn't that like all three videos
were necessarily bangers by any sense,
but it was the that repetition of like
let me try to come up with as many
concepts as possible. And you we would
have stuff that would like get a 100,000
views here or there, but when we you
know it wouldn't wasn't as consistent as
when we saw the interviews, it was every
single one we posted, people were.
>> But as you grow and and you get that
core audience, then it's like, okay,
let's get away from the quota posting.
Oh, I got my two posts up and let's and
and now it's like, you know, I I I post,
you know, I like to say every other day,
maybe three to four times a week, but
you know, those three to four times a
week. I mean, we generate off of the
channel 250 million views a month across
all platforms. So, again, it it does
come down to where I think at a certain
point, great content is always going to
perform and and you want to just
optimize for like the content that is
guaranteed that you know can get a lot
of views, you know,
>> and you let the data tell you what's
great. Like if somebody's like, I am
posting great content and it's not
working. That's why Viralish exists is
to be that creative bridge to say,
here's actually how to make it great
from a data perspective. We can't be
precious about it. This is not art. This
is social media. And there's it's kind
it can be an art form, meaning there's a
craft and there's a science to what
makes it work. But it was really a
marriage of art and science. It's the
science of the art of bringing something
into the world. But
>> data tells us whether it's good or not.
And I even say that with a grain of salt
because we have made so many videos that
are good from a data or an earning
perspective. They have hundreds of
millions of views, but they it's not a
good video. It's not like making the
world a better place.
>> So, I want to shift a little bit more
now because we went from, you know,
talked about how you had that first big
viral moment on Facebook, then 19
million views or and then and then we
went all in on the the the psychology,
virality, everything. I want to talk
about the business side of things now,
though, because and and I I I feel like
you would probably like this one. One of
our favorite sayings is is that great
businessmen are terrible content
creators and great content creators are
terrible businessmen.
>> I mean most influencers are broke. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> a lot of them are and it's cuz they
don't understand the business side of
media. What was your evolution in
building your media company to the 8
figureure, you know, branding company
that is today? Like you've worked with
some of the biggest companies in the
world. What has kind of been your
journey in building the media company
out, you know, to to the point where it
is today? What's made me developing
being in like I've developed into a good
businesswoman. I didn't start that way.
I was good at sales. I was good at
people and I was only good at sales
because I was good with people. But I
was good with people because I'm
entertainer first, right? And so I think
when you have enough belief and skill
set and you found your zone of genius,
that's where you resonate and then it
becomes easy to do business with you and
then you can be a good business person
if you serve people well, you protect
your reputation and you offer high value
and you deliver on what you say you're
going to do. Now there's more to it
obviously than that, but that's the
foundation of it is solving other
people's problems. Even if it was just
entertaining people, we solve people's
problems by you guys do by many ways.
But on your top of funnel, you close the
gap of showing other people what's
possible. You bring the most
aspirational people in the world down to
bite-size accessibility that somebody
can they get a little bit closer by
watching your page. They get a little
bit more educated. When we started, we
were making videos that entertained
people mostly during COVID. We made
their them smile more. So people come to
my page and they knew what to expect.
They knew they were going to laugh or
they were going to feel seen or a little
bit less crazy because I do a lot of
self-deprecating humor, right? So you're
solving a problem for them whether it's
business problem or on the emotional
spectrum somewhere. And then I think
even as a content creator I've now I was
just telling James and you guys before
we started I've talked myself into into
a desk job building out the business
because it is harder than just making
videos. But if you make great content
and that is your front end building the
business becomes a lot easier if you're
great at one thing first. I think it's
really interesting when we talk about
you know turning attention into actual
revenue because we had our own fault and
and literally hard knock within this
journey of one of the first things that
we did is I'd say about a year maybe a
year a year and a half in is we created
you know a canvas store a motivational
canvas store look people watch our
videos because they want to feel
inspired they want to feel motivated and
so we just assumed that our audience
would like a product of motivational
canvas art. And so we put probably, you
know, $20,000 into this uh, you know,
venture and sold only a few canvases.
And we're like, man, why did this not
work? And this is the biggest lesson
that I think we've learned and also
learned from just working with some of
the biggest brands in the world is that
the biggest problem that a person can
make or a creator can make is assuming
what their audience wants. You can never
assume what your audience actually
wants. You have to ask. And so within
our new ventures like let's just say our
community for example where we bridge
you know our audience the millionaires
and billionaires that we interview and
connect them is we ask them we we we did
polls questions is because I look like a
fitness trainer for example is maybe
you're a successful fitness creator and
you know people follow you they follow
you have some guides you show your
workouts and you start to sell your
workout plan and you know maybe it's
getting a couple sales but it's just not
really going the way that you want. and
you're like, "Man, why is this not
really working as well as I thought it
was going to be?" It's because you never
asked and what they really wanted was
your diet plans. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And you're selling them the wrong thing.
And so for you, you know, working with
some of the biggest brands and and
biggest people in the world, at what
point, you know, they're they're
attention. They're they're generating
they're excuse me, they're making videos
to generate attention. How do you
balance making videos for attention, but
also making videos to generate revenue
for their product or service?
>> Great question. And we like to say more
attention equals more leads. More leads
equals more sales, right? Nobody can buy
from you if they don't know you exist.
So you guys, even before you started
monetizing, you were just doing this for
like free value before the community,
before you had anything to sell, right?
And I think that is the most important
part is to build an audience and then
there's niches inside of even an
audience, right? Um so I would say build
like a lot of people like I'm not going
to start social media until I have
something to sell. I think that's a
horrible idea.
>> This is so good. Keep going. Horrible.
They're like well I'm not going to start
my Instagram yet because I got to figure
out how I'm going to monetize it. No,
because now you're doing it backwards of
what you just said where you're going to
say I'm creating this thing and then I'm
going to go market this. You don't know
if that's what people want building. Do
you have that friend that's ever like
joined an MLM or something? No knock on
MLMs, but every time you're around them,
they're just trying to sell you on something.
something.
>> You can knock on them if you want. You
can knock on,
>> but any time, we've all had those
friends who just always trying to get
you in on something, trying to sell you
something. We don't like that friend in
real life. So, why are you going to be
that person online where every time
you're making a video, you're online,
you're just trying to sell people stuff.
No, you can build a world in which your
product exists seamlessly and then it
will be effortless flow. You're not
going to deal with pitch fatigue. Hot
Ones is a great example of that. One of
my favorites. They sell buffalo sauce
and they just exited for $86.5 million.
>> Why do you think they sold for that much?
much?
>> They created a world around the product.
They never had to pitch that buffalo
sauce. They created an what we call an
SRS, a simple, repeatable, scalable
format that you eat these. It's an
interview style format and the questions
get harder as the wings get hotter.
simple, easy, repeatable, and so you
learn the Buffalo sauce just by way of
how the format is going. And you know,
by the time Jennifer Garner gets to
blazing butt that the question is going
to be fire, you know, like and so is
your mouth, you know, like that's just
it's you don't have to explain it. It
happens. And so now people just learn
the sauces because they created a world
around it that is entertaining first.
And if you entertain people, you can
earn the right to educate them and
eventually sell them on whatever you want.
want.
>> I think that is so smart. And I was, you know, me and Nolan were just in Beverly
know, me and Nolan were just in Beverly Hills the other day and uh there was a
Hills the other day and uh there was a young gentleman that had, you know, came
young gentleman that had, you know, came up to us. They they love the content and
up to us. They they love the content and they were like, "Man, I've got, you
they were like, "Man, I've got, you know, 4,000 followers right now. You
know, 4,000 followers right now. You know, how he was asking me these
know, how he was asking me these questions about how do I monetize? What
questions about how do I monetize? What should I brand? What should I build?"
should I brand? What should I build?" And it's like at for a second I thought
And it's like at for a second I thought about it's like, "Hm, this is the
about it's like, "Hm, this is the content you're making. How do you
content you're making. How do you monetize?" And I said, "You got you got
monetize?" And I said, "You got you got to build a brand. Like you you got 4,000
to build a brand. Like you you got 4,000 followers. That's not an audience.
followers. That's not an audience. Double down on building a brand." Now,
Double down on building a brand." Now, in our case, we didn't launch like
in our case, we didn't launch like something until we did have millions of
something until we did have millions of followers. And I'm not saying you have
followers. And I'm not saying you have to wait until then, but like get some
to wait until then, but like get some raving fans, like build that brand. It's
raving fans, like build that brand. It's going It may take a a couple years, but
going It may take a a couple years, but media is a long game. Accept that, you
media is a long game. Accept that, you know? I mean, come up with some other
know? I mean, come up with some other ways to make money off the content in
ways to make money off the content in the meantime. But when it comes to like
the meantime. But when it comes to like really selling or building a product
really selling or building a product out, if you got a couple thousand
out, if you got a couple thousand followers, you know, audiences, it's
followers, you know, audiences, it's hard to convert off of just that many
hard to convert off of just that many people. You want to build a big brand
people. You want to build a big brand first. That needs to be the emphasis.
first. That needs to be the emphasis. >> I agree. And there are the people who
>> I agree. And there are the people who will die on the other hill. But I think
will die on the other hill. But I think we can all agree that most people have
we can all agree that most people have been sold a lie that is keeping them
been sold a lie that is keeping them small. And there are those people who
small. And there are those people who can I talked to a girl two weeks ago.
can I talked to a girl two weeks ago. She made 40 grand last month off of
She made 40 grand last month off of 2,000 followers.
2,000 followers. >> She's doing great and she's talking to
>> She's doing great and she's talking to her core audience all the time, but she
her core audience all the time, but she probably has one of the largest TAMs
probably has one of the largest TAMs ever.
ever. >> Most people that aren't going to do
>> Most people that aren't going to do that. You would have better luck by
that. You would have better luck by building an audience first and going
building an audience first and going bigger. There is a difference between
bigger. There is a difference between cultural relevance and contextual
cultural relevance and contextual relevance. Jefferson Fiser is a great
relevance. Jefferson Fiser is a great example of this and one of my favorites
example of this and one of my favorites where most people, he's a trial lawyer
where most people, he's a trial lawyer from Texas, okay? Go look him up. is a
from Texas, okay? Go look him up. is a great example of this trial lawyer from
great example of this trial lawyer from Texas. Do you think he has 6 million
Texas. Do you think he has 6 million followers on Instagram because he's
followers on Instagram because he's talking about law? No, he's talking
talking about law? No, he's talking about what litigation actually is, which
about what litigation actually is, which is miscommunication. And so he teaches
is miscommunication. And so he teaches people, he macroed out and teaches
people, he macroed out and teaches people how to have a better next
people how to have a better next conversation. So his content looks like
conversation. So his content looks like here's what to say next time somebody's
here's what to say next time somebody's gaslighting you. Here's what to say or
gaslighting you. Here's what to say or if your wife ever says this, here's what
if your wife ever says this, here's what to do. And it's something every wife
to do. And it's something every wife ever has like said. He's talking about
ever has like said. He's talking about something that is relatable to literally
something that is relatable to literally everyone, but it's macroed from the
everyone, but it's macroed from the basis of what he's learned and his
basis of what he's learned and his expertise. So, his funnel is natural,
expertise. So, his funnel is natural, right? Audience and then niche. And now
right? Audience and then niche. And now he's what a New York Times number one
he's what a New York Times number one bestseller and his law practice is doing
bestseller and his law practice is doing excellent because more people know about
excellent because more people know about him, know that he exists. So, when
him, know that he exists. So, when realers especially, it's always the
realers especially, it's always the realators and they're like, "I only want
realators and they're like, "I only want followers who are going to buy from me."
followers who are going to buy from me." Like, okay, Tammy, you want 12 followers
Like, okay, Tammy, you want 12 followers for the houses you're going to sell this
for the houses you're going to sell this year? No. Build a brand. So, when I'm
year? No. Build a brand. So, when I'm ready,
ready, >> so that that customer is going to
>> so that that customer is going to purchase from you once a decade,
purchase from you once a decade, basically. If if that maybe maybe not.
basically. If if that maybe maybe not. >> So, I'm like, Becky, go bigger. Be a
>> So, I'm like, Becky, go bigger. Be a realer. So, when I'm ready to buy a
realer. So, when I'm ready to buy a house, you're who I think of. Or my
house, you're who I think of. Or my friend's looking to buy a house. So, I
friend's looking to buy a house. So, I send her your profile. You have to be
send her your profile. You have to be more known. You don't have to be, but I
more known. You don't have to be, but I would say attention is an arms race
would say attention is an arms race right now. and your competitor is using
right now. and your competitor is using AI. They are mass clipping. They are
AI. They are mass clipping. They are incentivized clipping. They are using
incentivized clipping. They are using synthetic content to go be more known
synthetic content to go be more known because if I offered you one billboard
because if I offered you one billboard in Nashville or 100 billboards in
in Nashville or 100 billboards in Nashville and they're free, which social
Nashville and they're free, which social media is, which one are you going to
media is, which one are you going to take?
take? >> 100 billboards because that's the person
>> 100 billboards because that's the person who has more attention. So, they're most
who has more attention. So, they're most likely going to get the business when
likely going to get the business when the time is right. I I I want to touch
the time is right. I I I want to touch on the realtor example because I think
on the realtor example because I think it's a good one because it piggybacks
it's a good one because it piggybacks off your point about total addressable
off your point about total addressable market. Most realtor when they make
market. Most realtor when they make content, this can go for anybody that
content, this can go for anybody that makes content for a local market. Like
makes content for a local market. Like most realtors, they just they want to
most realtors, they just they want to make content to target people.
make content to target people. Everyone's like, "Well, how do you
Everyone's like, "Well, how do you target someone if it's organic?" Like,
target someone if it's organic?" Like, uh they want to make content that's
uh they want to make content that's specifically targeting people in their
specifically targeting people in their local market that could buy home homes
local market that could buy home homes from them. Well, they're just like, "Oh,
from them. Well, they're just like, "Oh, I'm just going to do this like house
I'm just going to do this like house tour real quick and uh people are going
tour real quick and uh people are going to see the nice homes." It's like, who
to see the nice homes." It's like, who who like how many people are going to
who like how many people are going to like like could be your potential
like like could be your potential customer or are going to see that
customer or are going to see that content and want to buy from you? It's
content and want to buy from you? It's like maybe when they're in the the mood
like maybe when they're in the the mood to go buy a house maybe. But what if who
to go buy a house maybe. But what if who is your total addressable market? It's
is your total addressable market? It's all the people in the age of people that
all the people in the age of people that can buy homes in your in that in that
can buy homes in your in that in that area or people that might be wanting to
area or people that might be wanting to move there. What content do they
move there. What content do they consume? Well, that's families, that's
that's husbands, that's wives, that's mothers, that's fathers. They want to go
mothers, that's fathers. They want to go do fun things in the local area. So, why
do fun things in the local area. So, why aren't you not making like you can like
aren't you not making like you can like some of your content needs to touch on
some of your content needs to touch on the real estate stuff, but like go make
the real estate stuff, but like go make content about, you know, the best
content about, you know, the best restaurants in town, go make content
restaurants in town, go make content about the best activities in town, what
about the best activities in town, what are fun things to do, what are some
are fun things to do, what are some memes about the city. Uh, and and all
memes about the city. Uh, and and all those ideas can captivate your entire
those ideas can captivate your entire total addressable market. So now when
total addressable market. So now when you know somebody that followed you
you know somebody that followed you three years ago is in the mood to buy a
three years ago is in the mood to buy a house because they followed you for
house because they followed you for because you found the best fajitas in
because you found the best fajitas in town. Well, you post a video with a nice
town. Well, you post a video with a nice house, you know, three three fourbedroom
house, you know, three three fourbedroom house and now like they're your
house and now like they're your customer. They never would have been if
customer. They never would have been if you would have never made the fajitas
you would have never made the fajitas video.
video. >> And that is one of the hardest things to
>> And that is one of the hardest things to get people to do when we teach people
get people to do when we teach people how to make viral videos and topfunnel
how to make viral videos and topfunnel content. That's really where we
content. That's really where we overindex because most people they're
overindex because most people they're good at being the expert. They're good
good at being the expert. They're good about talking about their thing, but
about talking about their thing, but they're staying too small. They're so
they're staying too small. They're so focused on conversions, they're missing
focused on conversions, they're missing the bigger picture, which is we are in
the bigger picture, which is we are in the greatest wave of free advertising
the greatest wave of free advertising that the world has ever seen. So, go a
that the world has ever seen. So, go a little bit wider and do yourself the
little bit wider and do yourself the largest favor ever of becoming known.
largest favor ever of becoming known. One of the things, one of the things
One of the things, one of the things that I wanted to ask is, you know, we're
that I wanted to ask is, you know, we're we're kind of talking a little bit a
we're kind of talking a little bit a little bit here about turning content
little bit here about turning content creation, you know, into like the
creation, you know, into like the business side of things, but to that let
business side of things, but to that let let's kind of talk to that person that
let's kind of talk to that person that they're wanting to pursue content
they're wanting to pursue content creation as a full-time job or or
creation as a full-time job or or eventually build it into a business in
eventually build it into a business in those early years, early months, per se.
those early years, early months, per se. it is hard to monetize at the beginning
it is hard to monetize at the beginning especially like you know I would tell
especially like you know I would tell that person with 4,000 followers to not
that person with 4,000 followers to not worry about building a product or
worry about building a product or service to sell yet and rather double
service to sell yet and rather double down on building the brand and the
down on building the brand and the content but one of the biggest mistakes
content but one of the biggest mistakes that we all see you know creators when
that we all see you know creators when they're starting out make especially as
they're starting out make especially as they're coming up because it is hard to
they're coming up because it is hard to monetize is they dilute their brands
monetize is they dilute their brands they start to kind of do some BS little
they start to kind of do some BS little you know brand deals or promos or
you know brand deals or promos or sponsorships for certain people and it's
sponsorships for certain people and it's like I just don't think that's the way
like I just don't think that's the way to go
to go >> outside of and maybe This is the answer
>> outside of and maybe This is the answer a little bit. Ad revenue, right? And you
a little bit. Ad revenue, right? And you know, we were fortunate. We got invited
know, we were fortunate. We got invited into, you know, this Facebook reels
into, you know, this Facebook reels bonus program. It was invite only and we
bonus program. It was invite only and we were making 30 to 35k a month because we
were making 30 to 35k a month because we were maxing it out during like the 2021
were maxing it out during like the 2021 era for a couple months before we had
era for a couple months before we had that realization that, hey, you can't
that realization that, hey, you can't build a business off of just ad revenue.
build a business off of just ad revenue. Um, what are some ways that you think
Um, what are some ways that you think creators should be looking to monetize?
creators should be looking to monetize? Are you a fan of going out and trying to
Are you a fan of going out and trying to get sponsorships? Are you a fan of
get sponsorships? Are you a fan of affiliate? like what are some to that
affiliate? like what are some to that beginning entrepreneur before they build
beginning entrepreneur before they build the media company, they build that big
the media company, they build that big thing for their audience, they don't
thing for their audience, they don't have hundreds of thousands of followers
have hundreds of thousands of followers yet to monetize. What are some ways,
yet to monetize. What are some ways, some actionable ways that you think
some actionable ways that you think people should monetize when they're when
people should monetize when they're when they're kind of in those beginning
they're kind of in those beginning stages? I think two things. The future
stages? I think two things. The future of private communities, which we're all
of private communities, which we're all doing, right? Private communities and
doing, right? Private communities and owning your audience and giving them
owning your audience and giving them literally whatever they want and what
literally whatever they want and what you're able to give them. Serve the
you're able to give them. Serve the younger you. Somebody who's two steps
younger you. Somebody who's two steps behind you. I teach people how to make
behind you. I teach people how to make viral videos because that is what I know
viral videos because that is what I know that like the back of my eyelids right
that like the back of my eyelids right so whatever you're first become an
so whatever you're first become an expert in something be really good have
expert in something be really good have some value to offer and build you can
some value to offer and build you can build a private community the second
build a private community the second prediction I can guess I guess sorry the
prediction I can guess I guess sorry the second prediction I guess I would have
second prediction I guess I would have is really the future of UGC where your
is really the future of UGC where your followers don't matter but you're good
followers don't matter but you're good at creating content right and then so
at creating content right and then so you're going to make this content for a
you're going to make this content for a company AI is getting really good at
company AI is getting really good at making UGC
making UGC really really good. And so unless you're
really really good. And so unless you're really great and doing something AI
really great and doing something AI can't really replicate, which is maybe
can't really replicate, which is maybe 10% of UGC creators are that good, then
10% of UGC creators are that good, then I think there's going to be a huge
I think there's going to be a huge change up there. And I would advise
change up there. And I would advise creators to go work to go become the
creators to go work to go become the face of a company. I viral is full of
face of a company. I viral is full of business owners and entrepreneurs who
business owners and entrepreneurs who are not the best fit to be the face of
are not the best fit to be the face of the brand. And we know that brands have
the brand. And we know that brands have to start acting more like content
to start acting more like content creators and less like companies online.
creators and less like companies online. And they need a face. They need somebody
And they need a face. They need somebody to go do the man in the streets. They
to go do the man in the streets. They need somebody to do the simple
need somebody to do the simple repeatable thing and create the world,
repeatable thing and create the world, right? So, as a creator right now, find
right? So, as a creator right now, find something you're passionate about. If
something you're passionate about. If it's sports betting, go make content in
it's sports betting, go make content in sports betting and do high stakes viral
sports betting and do high stakes viral style videos in sports betting and then
style videos in sports betting and then do it as the face of a company who's
do it as the face of a company who's going to give you a lot of leverage,
going to give you a lot of leverage, who's going to give you the money and
who's going to give you the money and the support to lift your personal brand.
the support to lift your personal brand. Now you have leverage. You can go do
Now you have leverage. You can go do this for for multiple companies, right?
this for for multiple companies, right? And that is going to be a more solid
And that is going to be a more solid foundation for you financially than
foundation for you financially than hoping to get a UGC deal here or here or
hoping to get a UGC deal here or here or here. I would go be the face of a
here. I would go be the face of a company because all of these companies
company because all of these companies that I'm talking to want to bring a
that I'm talking to want to bring a creator inhouse. So, you're going to
creator inhouse. So, you're going to make a lot more money right away and
make a lot more money right away and you're not going to have to work as
you're not going to have to work as hard. You're still going to work really
hard. You're still going to work really hard, but you're going to know where
hard, but you're going to know where your paycheck's coming from while you're
your paycheck's coming from while you're putting in the time to get the skills.
putting in the time to get the skills. >> I I wanted to ask um there's a there's a
>> I I wanted to ask um there's a there's a there's a gentleman I would consider him
there's a gentleman I would consider him to be one of the greatest like internet
to be one of the greatest like internet marketers of of our generation. I don't
marketers of of our generation. I don't know. Have you heard of Neil Patel?
know. Have you heard of Neil Patel? >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Neil Patel. Incredible internet
>> Neil Patel. Incredible internet marketer. He's worked with some of the
marketer. He's worked with some of the biggest brands in the world and you know
biggest brands in the world and you know I saw on a on a on a call that we were
I saw on a on a on a call that we were actually on with him where he where he
actually on with him where he where he was asked what do you see as the future
was asked what do you see as the future of content creation and he mentioned
of content creation and he mentioned that it was he thought it was the
that it was he thought it was the globalization of content
globalization of content >> and I I I think that you know to touch
>> and I I I think that you know to touch on that for a second you know he's he's
on that for a second you know he's he's true not only is it doing you know sub
true not only is it doing you know sub channels and sub languages and doing
channels and sub languages and doing that right Mr. piece has done that. A
that right Mr. piece has done that. A lot of other big companies have started
lot of other big companies have started to do that as well.
to do that as well. >> Tons of foreign channels
>> Tons of foreign channels >> which which is very smart and even like
>> which which is very smart and even like uh another thing that we've done and
uh another thing that we've done and that I've noticed is like when we went
that I've noticed is like when we went to go do interviews in Dubai, we our
to go do interviews in Dubai, we our content was being pushed to millions of
content was being pushed to millions of people in the Middle East and you just
people in the Middle East and you just tap into an even wider audience. It's
tap into an even wider audience. It's like you you really you don't you can't
like you you really you don't you can't stop growing if you're like going to do
stop growing if you're like going to do that. And so a big focus as me is like I
that. And so a big focus as me is like I want to go do international content in a
want to go do international content in a whole bunch of countries. I'm curious
whole bunch of countries. I'm curious for you. Are there any other things that
for you. Are there any other things that you're thinking about in the next 3 to 5
you're thinking about in the next 3 to 5 10 years? I mean, I know that you've
10 years? I mean, I know that you've definitely touched on some of the points
definitely touched on some of the points about AI and the clipping. What do you
about AI and the clipping. What do you see the next 5 to 10 years are going to
see the next 5 to 10 years are going to be huge opportunities for content
be huge opportunities for content creators? Things that are going to
creators? Things that are going to change in the creator economies and new
change in the creator economies and new opportunities, new opportunities that
opportunities, new opportunities that will arise for people
will arise for people >> creators creating their own products
>> creators creating their own products different than we've seen with with
different than we've seen with with Prime and and things like that. But I
Prime and and things like that. But I think it's gonna the rise of like the
think it's gonna the rise of like the microcreator in these small subsets of
microcreator in these small subsets of communities in private communities like
communities in private communities like you can build something to sell even the
you can build something to sell even the smallest niche and make fantastic money.
smallest niche and make fantastic money. The most of the creators that we work
The most of the creators that we work with are making what people would get uh
with are making what people would get uh for a salary from their degree. We're
for a salary from their degree. We're talking multiple six figures and seven
talking multiple six figures and seven figures a year after just a few years of
figures a year after just a few years of getting really really good at content
getting really really good at content creation and they're picking what
creation and they're picking what they're naturally great at or they're
they're naturally great at or they're becoming the face of a company and
becoming the face of a company and crushing it. Right? So, I do think you
crushing it. Right? So, I do think you don't have to grow to millions and
don't have to grow to millions and millions of followers. I think you need
millions of followers. I think you need to focus on building true authenticity
to focus on building true authenticity in relationship with a group of people
in relationship with a group of people and pick something with a larger total
and pick something with a larger total addressable market. Why not? Why pick
addressable market. Why not? Why pick something so so small, right? But what
something so so small, right? But what is the bigger version of that small
is the bigger version of that small niche that you're an expert in? How can
niche that you're an expert in? How can you go a little bit bigger so that you
you go a little bit bigger so that you can have more opportunities? Because
can have more opportunities? Because what you sell your first year in
what you sell your first year in business is not going to be what you're
business is not going to be what you're probably selling year for. You will have
probably selling year for. You will have to change and adapt with the time. So
to change and adapt with the time. So your relationship with that buying
your relationship with that buying audience is more important than
audience is more important than anything.
anything. Um and then I had another one but I
Um and then I had another one but I think I lost it. Globalization,
think I lost it. Globalization, verticalation, verticalization and a
verticalation, verticalization and a mult multi-channel strategies. You know,
mult multi-channel strategies. You know, like we have multi- channelannel
like we have multi- channelannel strategies now, but we haven't done it
strategies now, but we haven't done it necessarily for Adley brand outside of
necessarily for Adley brand outside of Adley and espanol. We have a we have a
Adley and espanol. We have a we have a creator competition reality show that
creator competition reality show that we're building right now. That's going
we're building right now. That's going to be a different version of it. Then we
to be a different version of it. Then we have Adley reels, you have Adley long
have Adley reels, you have Adley long form, education ad, you know, but I
form, education ad, you know, but I think you're going to find if you are
think you're going to find if you are again a multi-passionate person, you can
again a multi-passionate person, you can have these subsets of audiences. That
have these subsets of audiences. That way you don't have everything all in one
way you don't have everything all in one channel, which is going to confuse the
channel, which is going to confuse the algorithm. is going to confuse you and
algorithm. is going to confuse you and confused people don't buy anything.
confused people don't buy anything. >> I'm curious, do you think that we're
>> I'm curious, do you think that we're going to continue to kind of see this
going to continue to kind of see this trend of of these, you know, media
trend of of these, you know, media companies like, you know, you brought up
companies like, you know, you brought up Hot Ones, I think was a great example
Hot Ones, I think was a great example where, you know, essentially what was
where, you know, essentially what was sold was they built the world around the
sold was they built the world around the product, but that that audience is what
product, but that that audience is what is what they bought for 80 million. You
is what they bought for 80 million. You know, I don't know if you know Dcoin was
know, I don't know if you know Dcoin was like the meme pages that sold the Warner
like the meme pages that sold the Warner Bros. for $84 million. Barto sold for
Bros. for $84 million. Barto sold for hundreds of millions of dollars. Do you
hundreds of millions of dollars. Do you think that there's going to kind of
think that there's going to kind of continue to be a trend in, you know,
continue to be a trend in, you know, private equity companies or these big,
private equity companies or these big, you know, media holding companies
you know, media holding companies continuing to buy a lot of these
continuing to buy a lot of these creators, especially as you bring up,
creators, especially as you bring up, you know, you own the audience, you have
you know, you own the audience, you have that private community, maybe there's
that private community, maybe there's other businesses around. Do you think
other businesses around. Do you think that there's going to kind of continue
that there's going to kind of continue to be a trend in that space?
to be a trend in that space? >> 1,000%. Why? That's We're flying to
>> 1,000%. Why? That's We're flying to Madrid tomorrow to talk about it with
Madrid tomorrow to talk about it with one of the biggest music and
one of the biggest music and entertainment companies in the world. It
entertainment companies in the world. It is a meeting of the mind of
is a meeting of the mind of entertainment executives and creators
entertainment executives and creators coming together to have this very same
coming together to have this very same conversation. And they're like, "Listen,
conversation. And they're like, "Listen, we have a ton of money, literally
we have a ton of money, literally limitless budget. Where do we put it?"
limitless budget. Where do we put it?" People with a lot of attention, right?
People with a lot of attention, right? And they're looking at brickandmortar.
And they're looking at brickandmortar. They're building out hotel groups and
They're building out hotel groups and bridging entertainment with creators.
bridging entertainment with creators. One of these hotels that Universal is
One of these hotels that Universal is building in Sa Paulo, Brazil is backing
building in Sa Paulo, Brazil is backing up to the soccer stadium and all the
up to the soccer stadium and all the rooms on this side are box suites and
rooms on this side are box suites and they are filled with items and limited
they are filled with items and limited drops and things from Universal Music
drops and things from Universal Music Groups artists and things you can only
Groups artists and things you can only get and experience in this hotel. And
get and experience in this hotel. And then how can we incentivize creators to,
then how can we incentivize creators to, hey, I'm Justin Bieber. I'm doing a
hey, I'm Justin Bieber. I'm doing a pop-up show here. And how can we get uh
pop-up show here. And how can we get uh 25,000 creators to this hotel in the
25,000 creators to this hotel in the next 24 hours? It is going to be a very
next 24 hours? It is going to be a very interesting mix of data, interests,
interesting mix of data, interests, interest based marketing,
interest based marketing, ad networks based on interest in
ad networks based on interest in engagement algorithms to mobilize people
engagement algorithms to mobilize people and not have the beers of the world feel
and not have the beers of the world feel so far away. But I now feel like I'm
so far away. But I now feel like I'm attached to this artist. I have a piece
attached to this artist. I have a piece of I got in on this limited drop. I was
of I got in on this limited drop. I was at this event and chosen. I feel closer
at this event and chosen. I feel closer to Universal. I feel closer to Eminem,
to Universal. I feel closer to Eminem, to the artists that I love. And that is
to the artists that I love. And that is the bridge that we're trying to build
the bridge that we're trying to build where people feel a part of a world now
where people feel a part of a world now more than just looking up to this artist
more than just looking up to this artist in the sky the way that it's
in the sky the way that it's historically been. I think the bridge
historically been. I think the bridge between artists and fans is going to get
between artists and fans is going to get closer and closer. And so if you're an
closer and closer. And so if you're an artist or a musician and you want to be
artist or a musician and you want to be above all that, I think your time of
above all that, I think your time of relevancy is very limited. Well, I think
relevancy is very limited. Well, I think it's also just a testament of how people
it's also just a testament of how people are buying and consuming nowadays more
are buying and consuming nowadays more than anything. Like traditional media is
than anything. Like traditional media is dying. Like you look at like just like
dying. Like you look at like just like the traditional news outlets, newspaper,
the traditional news outlets, newspaper, all of that. Like how people are
all of that. Like how people are consuming content is completely
consuming content is completely different. You know, people are getting
different. You know, people are getting their news from Twitter and Instagram
their news from Twitter and Instagram now.
now. >> People are buying products not because
>> People are buying products not because the product itself has amazing
the product itself has amazing marketing. It's because they're you
marketing. It's because they're you they're using, you know, an influencer
they're using, you know, an influencer creator that you love to sell the
creator that you love to sell the product. Mhm.
product. Mhm. >> With all the changes that have kind of
>> With all the changes that have kind of been, you know, made within media in the
been, you know, made within media in the past couple years, where do you see that
past couple years, where do you see that going in the future? Do you feel like
going in the future? Do you feel like people are going to continue to buy more
people are going to continue to buy more from creators itself or where do you
from creators itself or where do you kind of see the future of media kind of
kind of see the future of media kind of going?
going? >> The future of media is shoppable media.
>> The future of media is shoppable media. It is QR codes. It is Google lens of
It is QR codes. It is Google lens of what you're seeing on the screen.
what you're seeing on the screen. Miranda's wearing this thing. What is
Miranda's wearing this thing. What is that? Oh my gosh, I have a dupe of it or
that? Oh my gosh, I have a dupe of it or I see where to get the real thing. And
I see where to get the real thing. And we're going to be shopping with
we're going to be shopping with metagasses. We're going to be shopping
metagasses. We're going to be shopping all of the time. And if my eyes, if I'm
all of the time. And if my eyes, if I'm wearing metag glasses and my eyes gaze
wearing metag glasses and my eyes gaze at this thing a little too long, I'm
at this thing a little too long, I'm like, "Oh, James' sweater vest thing."
like, "Oh, James' sweater vest thing." And it can measure my dopamine. Are you
And it can measure my dopamine. Are you kidding? Like, we are going to get so
kidding? Like, we are going to get so algorithmically honed in. It's It's
algorithmically honed in. It's It's scary to think about where the future
scary to think about where the future is. Although my husband loves it and
is. Although my husband loves it and he's like, I everything on my algorithm
he's like, I everything on my algorithm is exactly what I would wear. I don't
is exactly what I would wear. I don't have to spend any time shopping. And it
have to spend any time shopping. And it is it is wild. But as you measure
is it is wild. But as you measure people's social engagements, they're
people's social engagements, they're what they linger a little bit too long
what they linger a little bit too long on. You guys know how scary the
on. You guys know how scary the shoppable algorithm is. Expect that to
shoppable algorithm is. Expect that to 10x.
10x. >> We like to end these podcasts off by
>> We like to end these podcasts off by asking our guests two questions. Um, and
asking our guests two questions. Um, and I'll I'll start off and then Jack,
I'll I'll start off and then Jack, you'll ask the second one. Adley, if me
you'll ask the second one. Adley, if me and you died tomorrow and you had one
and you died tomorrow and you had one more guiding principle to leave with the
more guiding principle to leave with the younger generation, what would that be?
younger generation, what would that be? >> It is not how good you are today sitting
>> It is not how good you are today sitting in this chair, laying in your bed,
in this chair, laying in your bed, wherever you're watching this video
wherever you're watching this video right now. It is 100% how good you want
right now. It is 100% how good you want to be. You have to have a vision to see
to be. You have to have a vision to see past your current circumstances. And I
past your current circumstances. And I do think my mom taught me that early on.
do think my mom taught me that early on. Our in times where my circumstances have
Our in times where my circumstances have not been great to know and believe
not been great to know and believe deeply that that is temporary and that
deeply that that is temporary and that you have to have vision and make it up
you have to have vision and make it up if you have to. But tell yourself that
if you have to. But tell yourself that your vision is huge and who you are
your vision is huge and who you are today has no indication on who you're
today has no indication on who you're going to be in the future if you change
going to be in the future if you change and your actions will align because you
and your actions will align because you will resonate. And that's where people I
will resonate. And that's where people I think get law of attraction wrong. It is
think get law of attraction wrong. It is first becoming it, then you resonate it,
first becoming it, then you resonate it, and then you attract it into your life.
and then you attract it into your life. So have vision to see past your current
So have vision to see past your current circumstances and know that it is not
circumstances and know that it is not about how good you are today. Those
about how good you are today. Those skills do not pre or those skills do not
skills do not pre or those skills do not disqualify you from the future that you
disqualify you from the future that you desire. It is very very possible for
desire. It is very very possible for you.
you. >> And Adley, if today everything was all
>> And Adley, if today everything was all said and done, what legacy would you
said and done, what legacy would you want to leave behind? How do you want to
want to leave behind? How do you want to be remembered? I hope that when people
be remembered? I hope that when people either consume my content or were around
either consume my content or were around me that I made them feel more confident.
me that I made them feel more confident. Whether it was confident in their
Whether it was confident in their silliness and their the things that make
silliness and their the things that make you unique that me and the way that I
you unique that me and the way that I live my life could be representation of
live my life could be representation of what is possible and everything that God
what is possible and everything that God can do in a life when you don't take
can do in a life when you don't take yourself too seriously and you just
yourself too seriously and you just trust the path and stay committed to
trust the path and stay committed to your own authenticity and ability and
your own authenticity and ability and that I was somebody who paved a path for
that I was somebody who paved a path for them.
them. >> I love that. incredible advice and just
>> I love that. incredible advice and just an insanely insanely valuable
an insanely insanely valuable conversation. Adley, thank you so much.
conversation. Adley, thank you so much. >> Thank you, friends.
>> Thank you, friends. >> We appreciate you. For everybody
>> We appreciate you. For everybody watching right now, be sure to like and
watching right now, be sure to like and subscribe for amazing content cuz every
subscribe for amazing content cuz every week we're bringing you guys the best
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can't wait to see you on the inside. With that being said, we'll see you in
With that being said, we'll see you in the next episode.
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