The most effective way to study and learn is not intuitive; it primarily involves actively combating the natural process of forgetting through strategic methods like self-testing, rather than passive review.
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welcome to the huberman Lab podcast
where we discuss science and
science-based tools for everyday [Music]
[Music]
life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a
professor of neurobiology and
Opthalmology at Stanford school of
medicine today we are discussing how to
study and learn that is what the
scientific data say is the best way to
study in order to remember information
and to be able to use that information
effectively in different areas of your
life so for those of you that are still
in school this could be any stage of
school today's discussion will be very
useful for you however even if you are
not formally enrolled in any kind of
school at the moment today's discussion
will also be extremely effective for you
to be able to study and learn better
information from say the internet or
podcasts or any area of your life where
you are seeking to learn and use new
knowledge now one of the most important
things that you're going to learn today
is that learning that is the best
learning practices are not intuitive so
before we dive in keep in mind that
whatever you believe about how best to
learn for you is probably Incorrect and
I confess this was humbling for me as
well when I started to dive into this
literature because as somebody who was a
student for many years and in some sense
still considers himself a student of
science and health information because
of this podcast and certainly somebody
who still teaches University courses
both to medical students and graduate
students and to undergraduate students
at Stanford I thought I understood the
whole teaching and learning process but
I too learned that it is anything but
intuitive in fact most of what we
believe about the best ways to study are
absolutely false fortunately today you
will learn the best ways to study turns
out there's a rich literature on this
dating back well over a hundred years
and the data are absolutely fascinating
and Incredibly actionable it's
incredibly interesting how the fields of
Education the fields of psychology and
the fields of Neuroscience have now come
together to define the optimal
strategies to study and learn before we
begin I'd like to emphasize that this
podcast is separate from my teaching
research roles at Stanford it is however
part of my desire and effort to bring
zero cost to Consumer information about
science and science related tools to the
general public in keeping with that
theme I'd like to thank the sponsors of
today's podcast our first sponsor is
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huberman today's episode is also brought
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trial okay let's talk about how best to
study and learn and of course people
have different learning styles Some
people prefer to learn by reading some
people prefer to study in a group Some
people prefer to highlight some people
call themselves auditory Learners other
people consider themselves visual
learners but guess what when one looks
at the research on preferred learning
styles pretty much all of that melts
away it turns out that the best way to
study and learn is defined not by the
medium in which that material arrives
whether not it's auditory or visual or
combined whether or not you review
slides or a textbook or you watch small
videos it turns out that the best way to
study and learn is to access components
of your memory systems that offset
forgetting this is a theme I'm going to
return to over and over again throughout
today's episode rather than think about
studying to learn and retain information
I want you to think about studying to
offset the natural process of forgetting
that everybody experiences when they are
exposed to new material of any kind
cognitive or motor learning musical
learning math Etc okay so keep this in
mind throughout today's episode the best
way to learn is to think about
offsetting the natural forgetting of new
information you're trying to inoculate
against forgetting that is the way to
remember things that is the way to gain
Mastery over them and I'm going to teach
you how to best do that using the data
gleaned from the peer- reviewed
literature now before I do that I want
to talk about what learning is I promise
to make this fairly brief because I've
covered learning and so-called neuro
plasticity before on this podcast for
those of you that have heard those
discussions this will serve as a
refresher for those of you that have not
heard those discussions this will be
thorough enough for you to be able to
digest all the rest of today's
information neuroplasticity is this
incredible feature of your nervous
system which of course includes your
brain and your spinal cord which is the
ability for your nervous system to
change in response to experience so any
form of learning involves
neuroplasticity neuroplasticity we
sometimes hear as neural plasticity two
words or
neuroplasticity those are the same thing
essentially the change that underlies
neuroplasticity at the level of cells
which we call neurons or nerve cells
generally involves three different
mechanisms one is the strengthening of
certain connections what we call
synaptic connections synapses are the
location between neurons where they
communicate with one another it's
actually a gap between the neurons it is
technically called the synaptic left
it's a gap and within that Gap chemicals
are passed across that Gap that allow
one neuron to activate other neurons or
many neurons to activate many other
neurons or to inhibit the activity of
other neurons okay so one form of
neuroplasticity is the strengthening of
connections between neurons another form
of neuroplasticity is the weakening of
connections between neurons and yet a
third form of plasticity which is often
discussed in the media but is very rare
actually in the nervous system
especially the adult nervous system of
humans is neurogenesis or the addition
of new neurons let's just get this out
of the way up front because the addition
of new neurons again grabs so much
attention in media articles but it's
responsible for a near trivial amount of
the sort of neuroplasticity that is
important for today's discussion or
frankly for most all discussions it is
true you have a specialized set of
neurons in your olda factory bulb that
are responsible for smell as well as a
specialized set of neurons in the
so-called dentate gyrus of your
hippocampus an area of the brain that's
important for memory in which new
neurons appear to be added throughout
the lifespan but this is not the major
mechanism by which learning and memory
occurs in humans rather the major
mechanism by which learning and memory
occurs in humans is the strengthening of
existing connections and the weakening
of existing connections or the formation
of new connections between already EX
existing neurons not new neurons okay
now the removal or weakening of
connections between neurons being an
important component of neuroplasticity
is very important for sake of today's
discussion I want to emphasize that when
we hear about weakening of connections
we often think well that means
forgetting or that means the brain is
getting less good however so much of the
neuroplasticity that underlies for
instance the acquisition of a new motor
skill is actually the reflection of
removal of connections so we don't want
to project any kind of value onto a
discussion about adding new connections
removing new connections let's just
leave it at this level mechanistically
when you hear about neuroplasticity just
know that it could be the consequence of
strengthening of connections as well as
weakening of connections and that
neither strengthening of Connections in
the nervous system nor weakening of
connections can map directly to the
formation or remove removal of say
memories or information just know that
these are the important mechanisms in
fact if you look at a baby that is let's
say I don't know N9 months old their
motor skills are not terrific typically
compared to the motor skills that that
child will have when they are six or
seven years old just look at a kid
trying to eat spaghetti or something of
that sort or eat anything when they're a
small baby versus a toddler versus a
young child versus an adolescent or Te
You know despite the um poor table
manners of some adolescence and teens
and some adults for that matter they are
still exhibiting far more precise motor
movements than they did as an infant of
course and believe it or not the
Improvement in motor coordination that
one observes in humans and other species
for that matter from birth until the
adolescence and teen years and adult
years is largely the reflection of the
removal that's right the removal of
neural connections as opposed to the form
form
of neural connections however the neural
connections that remain become much more
robust they become much more reliable
okay so that's the mechanistic backdrop
for everything that we're going to talk
about today which is how to study and
learn and as I mentioned earlier in my
introduction most of learning and
remembering new material is about
offsetting the forgetting process that
naturally occurs any time we hear new
information so in keeping with what will
ultimately reveal itself to be the
dominant theme of today's discussion
right now and for reasons that will
become clear later I want you to take a
brief quiz now the moment people hear
quiz or test typically it spikes their
adrenaline they start feeling stressed
but don't worry you're going to keep
your answers to yourself and you're
doing this for a very specific purpose
here's my question this is a two question
question
quiz how many different ways
mechanistically speaking does does
neuroplasticity occur is it one
mechanism two mechanisms or three
mechanisms or is it four or
five okay can you name in your head two
of the three major changes that the
nervous system can undergo which are
neuroplasticity okay so the answer to
question was is that there are three
different modes of neuroplasticity as
you recall or as you may not have been
able to recall and by the way if you
were not able to recall the three
different modes of neuroplasticity or
mechanisms underlying neuroplasticity
that is fine as you'll soon realize
recognizing the errors in your
information retention is another
critical and very useful way to retain
more information even if you got the
answer wrong or you didn't know in fact
especially if you got the answer wrong
or you didn't know so the three ways are
the strengthening of neural connection
second the weakening of neural
connections and third through
neurogenesis the addition of new neurons
why did I provide this quiz why did I
test you well as you'll soon learn if
you look across the total body of
research on how best to study and learn
it involves doing exactly what we just
did which is to periodically stop and
test yourself on the material that you
learned testing is not just a way of
evaluating what knowledge you've
Acquired and which knowledge you have
not managed to acquire it also turns out
to be the best tool for offsetting
forgetting of any kind and I'll go into
the data that supports that statement in
a moment so yes today we're going to get
a little bit meta in the sense that
we're going to be learning about optimal
studying strategies and applying those
as we go through this podcast and no
there will not be a test at the end
although you're welcome to give yourself
a test at the end I'm going to provide
you with an excellent zeroc cost very
fast tool that you can use to evaluate
your knowledge and your ability to study
and learn better as a consequence of
having listened to this podcast versus
had you not listened to this podcast so
if ever there was an incentive to listen
to the end there it is okay let's talk
about some of the other practical
aspects of studying and learning I know
a lot of you out there who want to learn
and want to come up with the best
studying strategies are trying to think
about how to structure your day or how
much to study or when to study let's get
the most important things out of the way
first neuroplasticity and learning that
is convert converting your studying
efforts into retention of knowledge is a
two-step process you probably heard
about active engagement that's just a
fancy set of words for focus for really
attending to the information that you're
trying to learn and it is very important
anytime you're trying to learn new
information so focus goes with alertness
you can't be focused if you're not alert
this is
prerequisite so you need to be alert and
you need to be focused in order to pay
attention to the information that you're
trying to learn in fact it is the
process of being focused and
attending that cues your nervous system
that something is important that
something's different about whatever
sensory experience you happen to be
having when you're focused and attending
whether or not it's the information
you're hearing or that you're looking at or
or
both that cue at the level of
neurochemicals in your brain and body
signals to the neurons hey you're going
to have to change you're going to have
to alter your connections either make
them stronger or weaker or a combination
of those things in order to make sure
that your nervous system can retain and
use the information at a future time so
that's step one and of course as a part
of step one most people when they hear
about optimal studying strategies they
want to know you know what should they
do what should they take in order to
learn better well here's what everyone
should take in order to learn better
which is a great night's sleep the night
before limiting your external stress
although some stresses good because it
cues up your alertness it actually
allows you to remember certain things
better we'll talk about this a little
bit later no one can remove all stress
from their life but we know one thing
for sure your ability to be alert and
focused is going to be greater if you
slept well the night before okay so
sleep is without question the best neut
Tropic right the word neut Tropic means
smart drug I don't really like that term
because learning involves all sorts of
things it's not just about being smart
it's about being able to attend it's
about sometimes being creative flexible
with ideas and information here's the
point you're going to need to get your
sleep right in order to be able to study
and learn at your absolute best and I've
done many episodes of The hman Lab
podcast about sleep we have a newsletter
about sleep that details in a short PDF
format the various things you can do to
get your sleep optimized so to speak you
can find all that hubman lab.com by
putting sleep into the search function
we don't have time to discuss that
material now but get your sleep right so
that you can be alert and focused when
it comes time to learn now the process
of being alert and focused on particular
material that you want to learn can be
enhanced by just having a silent script
within your head silent meaning you're
not saying it out loud where when you
sit down to learn you're looking at a
book or you're listening to a lecture
perhaps a podcast like this you're
thinking okay I need to learn this I
need to learn this you can voluntarily
ramp up your level of focus and
alertness by telling yourself that
information is important
don't be a passive participant in
learning this is the basis of active
learning by expecting the information to
be so interesting that it pulls your
level of attention and focus out of you
rather learn to engage your attention
and focus voluntarily
volitionally okay when we hear about
ADHD attention deficit hyperactivity
disorder we know that people with ADHD
can attend very rapidly they can really
pay close attention for long periods of
time if they like a given topic or a
given experience or activity they have
serious challenges however engaging
their attention and alertness if they
are not excited about an activity or
information and so it is the Hallmark of
all good Learners to be able to
voluntarily force yourself to attend and
to focus and when I say force yourself
that means a constant bringing back of
your mind's attention to whatever it is
you're trying to learn it is meant to
feel difficult I say meant to feel
difficult because that strain that you
feel that encouraging or in some cases
forcing yourself to attend sometimes
even putting on a hoodie and hat you
know literally putting blinders so that
you can only attend to the material
right in front of you that straining
that you feel reflects in part the
release of neuromodulators like
epinephrine adrenaline in the brain and
body which serve to cue the neural
circuits that they need to change at a
later time okay so the strength that you
feel in trying to learn the strain that
you feel in forcing yourself to learn
how to focus that is good that's a
c-tier nervous system that it's going to
need to change that neuroplasticity
needs to take place think about it if
you didn't feel that strain and you were
able to perform whatever it is that you
were doing or remember whatever
information it is that you're being
exposed to seamlessly well then your
nervous system wouldn't have to change
because it already has the capabilities
within the neural circuits so that
strain that you feel that agitation is
great that's a cue that you are learning
or that you set the learning process in
motion now it's also the case that some
people don't have great levels of focus
and attention and there are of course
pharmacologic tools I would encourage
anyone that has clinically diagnosed
ADHD to talk to their doctor about
whether or not they should use
prescription meds and or other methods
great sleep is always going to be an
important substrate for attention and
focus for anybody but especially for
people with
ADHD I highly encourage anyone that's
interested in enhancing their levels of
focus and attention to also consider the
non-pharmacologic approaches so this is
irrespective of whether or not you need
pharmacologic approaches yes being well
hydrated yes the appropriate amount of
caffeine for you that allows you to be
alert but not you know shaking and
agitated can be very
useful however the scientific data also
support the fact that doing a brief say
five to 10 minute mindfulness meditation
each day these are the data from Wendy
Suzuki's laboratory at New York
University showing that people who do a
10-minute meditation per day where they
simply sit or lie down close their eyes
focus on their breathing their attention
invariably drifts they bring their
attention back to their breathing people
who do that on a regular basis improve
their level of focus they improve their
memory and recall ability and of course
there are a bunch of other positive
effects of that simple
zeroc cost tool of mindfulness
meditation so if you're interested in
improving your levels of focus and
attention for sake of learning I highly
encourage you to explore the Oho
valuable tool of mindfulness meditation
just five or 10 minutes per day done on
a regular basis you miss a day no big
deal just get right back to it the next
day does it matter if you do it morning
afternoon or night no some people find
that doing it too late at night might
disrupt their sleep
but if you think about meditation of the
sort that I just described as a
perceptual exercise maybe you don't even
call it meditation you're just teaching
yourself to focus you could even do it
with Eyes Open by focusing on a visual
Target allowing yourself to Blink there
are good data on this sort of approach
as well and then just making sure that
your visual attention and cognitive
attention comes back to that visual
Target over and over again it's a
deliberate process of bringing your
attention back to a particular
location that is very valuable for
improving your levels of focus in fact
it is known to create significant
improvements in your ability to focus
which is critical for your ability to
study and learn so I know that many
people are interested in what to take
what to do at the level of kind of um
esoteric practices or things to buy
there is stuff out there again I
mentioned hydration caffeine great sleep
and so on but the simple practice of
mindfulness meditation or just what I
describe as a focusing perceptual
exercise of bringing your attention back
to the same location over and over again
deliberately will train you to train
your nervous system to bring your
attention back to whatever it is you're
trying to learn now I've done other
podcasts about how to focus about
attention specifically and ADHD again
you can find all of those at hubman
lab.com simply put ADHD or Focus or
tools for focus into the search function
and it will take you to the exact
timestamps in those episodes that are
relevant right now however I want to
talk about the second part of neuroplastic
neuroplastic
which is that the actual changes in the
nervous system the strengthening and
weakening predominantly of connections
between neurons that underly learning do
not occur during the focusing and
learning or rather the exposure to the
material but instead during deep sleep
and sleep-like states and again I've
done a lot of podcasts and talked a lot
about tools for getting better sleep but
I just want to remind everybody that the
actual reordering of the connections the
strengthening of connections between
neurons that underly learning the
weakening of those connections occurs
during sleep in particular during rapid
eye movement sleep which tends to
predominate in the latter half of the
night so make sure that you're getting
enough sleep for you for some people
it's 6 hours for some people it's eight
hours and yes there is something called
the first night effect the first night
effect is the experimentally observed
phenomenon whereby information that you
learn on a given day is mostly
Consolidated during the night's sleep
that you have on that first night after
the learning occurs does this mean that
if you get a poor night's sleep on the
first night after learning something
that you are forever going to forget
that information that it cannot be
Consolidated into your neural circuits
no however it's very clear that the
first night after learning you want to
get the best sleep possible so if you're
learning BS you're studying is going
late into the night and you're drinking
a lot of caffeine be mindful that the
sleep that you get after drinking that
caffeine late into the day the all
nighters that you're pulling those are
not serving you're learning well so you
need to structure your life as a student
of any kind so that you can get focus
and attention to what it is you want to
learn and you can get sleep to the best
of your ability and of course people who
are raising young kids or who have
stress in their lives for whatever
reason perhaps won't be able to optimize
their sleep on that first night or even
subsequent nights but do your best to
get your sleep right it's the single
best thing you can do for your mental
health for your physical health and for
Learning and performance of any kind and
it's really worth the effort
Now with an understanding of the
mechanisms the focus and
alertness and the Sleep phase of
neuroplasticity what are some other
things that you can do to enhance
whatever studying and learning you've
obtained I already talked about a tool a
behavioral tool for enhancing Focus what
about a behavioral tool for enhancing
plasticity if your sleep is great or
especially if your sleep isn't great and
there I highly recommend you explore
non-sleep deep rest or nsdr there's a
script for this in the show note
captions nsdr sometimes referred to as
Yoga Nidra although those things are
similar but different is a 10 or 20
minute practice that you can do to
restore your mental and physical Vigor
if you haven't slept enough so you could
do it first thing in the morning when
you wake up if you feel you haven't
slept enough you can do it in the
afternoon you can do it in the middle of
the night if you're not able to sleep
and offset some of the Sleep loss that
you otherwise would have experienced
nsdr is a very powerful tool in order to enhance
enhance
neuroplasticity and I'll talk more about
this in a future episode there's a lot
of exciting data coming out about nsdr
and yoga Nitra but if you're sleeping
well and even if you aren't I highly
encourage you to incorporate a 10 or 20
minute nsdr into your schedule someplace
again where you place it in your
schedule isn't as important as the fact
that you do it in order to enhance
neuroplasticity that is the reordering
of connections between neurons to serve
the studying and learning that you're
doing now let's talk about how the best
students structure their days turns out
there are great studies on this there's
a really nice paper in fact that
surveyed close to 700 students these
were medical students approximately
equal number of male and female students
and analyze the most useful learning
habits that is the learning habits
associated with the most successful
students now anytime you do a study like
this where people take surveys there's
always the issue of causality in fact we
can pretty much set aside any possible
causality for instance I'm about to tell
you that the very best performing
students tend to study for about three
or four hours per day but you could
easily say Well they're the best
students because they study three or
four hours per day they don't study
three or four hours per day because
they're the best students and you'd be
exactly right okay we can get into all
sorts of discussions about correlation
versus causation about reverse causality
and on and on however none of that is
the point here the point here is to
establish what are the habits that the
most successful students seem to
incorporate over and over again
regardless of what classes they're
taking regardless of where they are in
their Arc of their learning trajectory
and so what we know based on this study
and I'll provide a link to it in the
show note captions is that there are at
least 10 study habits that the highly
effective students use I'm going to
focus on the top five or six just for
sake of time because it turns out that
most of the effect it appears
of being a better student can be
attributed to these top five or six
habits first of all they set aside time
to study they literally schedule time to
study now this probably serves several
roles the first one is that they are
able to clear out other distractions and
in fact that's the second thing that
they do they are very effective or they
make it a point of putting their phone
away and off of isolating themselves
that's right they're not studying with
other people they study alone which is
not to say that people who study with
others cannot be effective in their
studying but the best performing
students seem to study alone they put
their phone away they tell their friends
and families that they are not going to
be able to be reached during that time
and yes they study for three or four
hours per day but they break that up
into a couple of different sessions
typically two or three sessions so
they're not doing a three or four hours
studying about all in one
shot so they're managing their time
they're eliminating distractions and
they're studying for a consistent amount
of time at least 5 days per week okay
presumably they're taking some weekends
off although that wasn't made clear from
this paper the other thing that they do
and this is very important is that they
make an effort to then teach their peers
to teach other students in the class now
some of you may be thinking and I'm
thinking back to college here mostly
that if you spend all this time learning
the information and you are in a
competitive scenario with the other
students that teaching them the
information is kind of kind of a freebie
for them and it's harder for you meaning
you're putting yourself at a competitive
disadvantage or you're giving them an
unfair Advantage for not having done the
work now while this paper didn't do an
analysis of whether or not these
students that served as the Learners
from the other students got an unfair
Advantage it's very clear that students
who make it a point to learn material in
isolation then bring that material to
other students in the same course and
teach them perform exceedingly well in
comparison to the other students so
don't be afraid to be a teacher of your
peers in order to test this is key to
test and develop Mastery of the material
now in my laboratory for years we used
to have a saying which I simply picked
up from the Laboratories I was trained
in I didn't come up with a saying which
was watch one do one teach one and that
was referring to doing surgeries or
suturing or doing an antibody reaction
or a western blood or things that you do in
in
Laboratories watch one do one teach one
watch one do one teach one of course
should be reserved to anything where no
one's going to be put in danger by the
watch one do one teach one procedure
right some procedures especially in
Laboratories can be dangerous given the
materials you use Etc and of course
today we're talking about learning and
studying generally so provided it safe
watch one do one teach one is an
excellent means to learn that is to
study new material to develop
proficiency and even Mastery and over
time perhaps even virtuosity we'll
return to that later those distinctions
so going back to this idea that the best
students set aside time they designate
time to study alone without distractions
that is sure to help them anchor their
focus and attention they know that
they're going to need to use their focus
and attention during that time and we
know with absolute certainty that focus
and attention are a limited but
renewable resource in the human brain
the longer you're awake the more is the
buildup of a molecule called adenosine
in your brain and body it makes you
sleep sley makes it harder to focus when
you sleep adenosine levels are pushed
down again you're able to focus again
you feel more alert you can think of
adenosine as limiting your attentional
budget which is not to say that some
people don't study best in the afternoon
or in the evening or even late at night
right I recall times during University
when I'd study between the hours of 10
p.m. and 2: a.m. I don't do that any longer
longer
but scheduling time where you know
you're going to need to be focused and
attending is perhaps one of the most
important things toward being able to
focus and attend to the material now if
you're taking courses you probably are
going to be a slave to the timing of the
courses you aren't going to be able to
tell the instructor okay listen I want
you to do this course at you know 3 p.m.
because that's when you learn best or at
8: a.m. because that's when you happen
to be able to attend best however to the
extent that you have any control over
the time in which you're going to study
keeping that at a regular time or times
perhaps one block early in the day one
block later in the day perhaps two
blocks early in the day and so on is
going to be beneficial it turns out
that's also supported by the research
literature that the brain just like with
its sleep wake cycles that entrain to a
regular schedule that is your brain and
body get used to being active and
inactive at particular times based on
your exposure to sunlight your exposure
to activities your social rhythms Etc if
you regularly meaning for the course of
about three days make it a point to
focus and study at particular times
again pulling your attention back it's
not an automatic process but pulling
your attention back to a specific
location perhaps on a page or that
you're listening to in a lecture your
body and brain will start to entrain to
that Rhythm such that you will be able
to focus and attend better simply by
virtue of the regularity of the timing
of the exposure to the material okay so
you probably need about two or three
days to break into a regular schedule of
focusing and attending and studying at a
given time or times allow yourself that
transition period but then make it a
point to schedule those times to study
set aside your phone tell people you're
going offline turn off the Wi-Fi if you
need to or have to you may need it for
your studying I don't know depends on
what you're studying but limit
distractions at all costs and learn to
just focus on the material and this is a
skill this is the most important thing
to understand it's a skill to be able to
focus and study and it's a skill that
you can learn very quickly especially if
you schedule it for regular times and
you give yourself two or three days in
which to adapt to those schedules and
times and then try and stick to them as
regularly as possible perhaps even on
the weekends if you're approaching you
know the end of the quarter or
semester perhaps even on the weekend
even if you're not in the quarter or
semester keeping those regular times
will entrain your nervous system to
study and learn at its best at those
particular times I'd like to take a
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into specific ways to study in order to
maximally offset forgetting notice I
didn't say in order to learn but rather
to maximally offset forgetting AKA
learning stably learning material
there's one other point that I wanted to
pass along from this uh really nice
study on the study habits of highly
effective medical students that I've
been referring to and that is when one
examined or these people were asked
about their motivation for studying the
best performing students had an
interesting answer they had a very
long-term understanding of how or belief
rather about how their success in
medical school would impact their family
how it would impact their life Arc how
it would change them and they weren't
particular about the ways in which it
would change them or their family in
fact it was a rather broad abstract
aspirational way of thinking about their
study efforts so what I like so much
about this paper is that you know in
addition to having a fairly large sample
size close to 700 students that were
evaluated and yes it's purely uh you
know self-report and this kind of thing
nonetheless it Bridges the two extremes
of studying and learning you know it
gets right down into the nitty-gritty of
how long they study when they study the
things they do to limit distraction that
we just discussed but it also gets to
their underlying psychological
motivations and the thing that they use
in order to pull them forward through
their study efforts perhaps especially
when their desire is waning or their uh
level of fatigue is increasing I don't
know that I'm speculating here but this
is this aspirational component of going
to medical school which it turns out in
the country in which the study was done
um only very very select few of the very
best students are able to achieve that
they have to learn the in a different
language altogether which is
incredible I always Marvel at that you
know I have friends that did their PHD
thesis in Italy they're Italian by birth
they now happen to run a laboratory in
Italy and they had to do their PHD
training and write papers and give their
thesis dissertation and defense in
English even though English was their
second language so talk about a
challenge and um that's just one example
that I can think of there are many
examples of
that these students students that I'm
referring to in this study are not
necessarily constantly thinking about
how their efforts will transform
themselves and their families but they
certainly were able to report what it
was specifically that they are seeking
what they're aspiring to besides just
trying to do as well as they can getting
into and through medical school so the
high level aspirational stuff within you
whatever that is for you it's going to
be highly
individual is certainly important and it
offers a bookend to the nuts and bolts
kind of stuff that you're going to do I
would hope in order to best study and
learn the specific material so the
specific actions that you're going to
take each day to learn specific bits of
information that will pull you toward
those important aspirations and now
again if you love the material you're
learning this aspirational component is
probably not as important right I can
recall during University and graduate
school and so on thinking oh my goodness
this is like the coolest thing I've ever
heard probably say that about a million
different topics like oh my goodness
circadian rhythms seasonal rhythms
melatonin neural circuits dopamine I was
just a wash with excitement about what I
was learning but of course sometimes I
would take a course where the material
was I don't know if it was more
challenging or not but I had a harder
time getting engaged by the material
either by virtue of how it was being
taught to me or the material itself so
the ability to attach to some
aspirational goal to pull you
through can be very valuable you're not
going to love every topic you have to
learn however I will say that at least
in my experience some of the courses
that I look back on most fondly are the
courses that I struggled with the most
and in fact that's the basis of the next
and easily one of the most important
studying tools so a key theme in all of
the excellent literature that is the
peer- reviewed research on how best to
study is that studying that feels
challenging is the most effective I know
nobody wants to hear this everyone wants
to hear about flow everybody wants to
hear about information just sinking into
their brain by osmosis I think it was a
Garfield cartoon where he talked about
learning by osmosis there's this very
cute real world video of a kid in a
classroom uh I believe uh it's in China
where he's taking the book and he puts
it on his head maybe I can find this
clip and he's just kind of like trying
to wash it into his brain it's super
cute clip but guess what that doesn't
work I mean it works to put the book on
your head it doesn't work to it's not
going to get the information into your
brain uh perhaps someday there will be
ways to rapidly download information
into neural circuits right now we know
we've known for hundreds of not
thousands of years that effort is the
Cornerstone of learning so I know there
probably some gron about that I know
some of you perhaps were hoping that
today I was going to tell you how to
study so that studying wasn't
painful I think I can accomplish that by
the end of today's episode but in order
to do that let's take another quiz okay
so here's the quiz again you can answer
these questions in your head you don't
have to tell anyone but you could write
them down or say them out loud if you
want the first question
is when during either your states of
alertness or sleep does the remodeling
of neural connections occur I like to
think this is a pretty easy one okay the
answer is during sleep the second
question is what is one behavioral tool
that you can use to improve
focus the answer is simple mindfulness
meditation which I'd prefer you think of
Simply as a perceptual exercise so again
just sit or lie down close your eyes
focus on your breath when your attention
drifts bring your attention back to your
breath and so on or if you prefer you
can do this Eyes Open by focusing on a
visual Target either a foot or two feet
or 3 ft away whatever distance is
comfortable for you allowing yourself to
Blink as needed but forcing yourself
to focus on that visual Target for say 1
to 3 minutes maybe even 3 to 5 minutes
maybe even 10 minutes again please blink
you don't want your eyes to dry both
those tools will improve your ability to
attend to focus to other material when
the time comes okay the circuits for
focus and attention themselves are
subject to
neuroplasticity and then the third
question is can you name or List off in
your mind three tools that the most
effective students have been shown to use
use
I can think
of limiting distraction by virtue of
putting away phones and telling others
you won't be in contact with them two
and I'm getting these out of order I
realize is to isolate to study alone and
the third that I can recall is to teach
others in the same course okay you can
probably think of a few others now why
are we taking these silly little quizzes
Well turns out they're not so silly when
one considers that hopefully you'll
remember the information from today so
that you don't have to listen to it over
and over again but that if ever there
was a strongly research supported tool
in the literature in the peer-reviewed
literature about how students can learn
information better it's testing and I
know I know I know we think of tests as
a way to evaluate our knowledge but it
turns out that testing is one of the
best ways to build our knowledge to
retain our knowledge and again to offset
forgetting now the study of testing as a
learning tool not just as a way to
evaluate how much information we've
learned goes back over a hundred years
there's a classic study that was done in
1917 where grade school age children
read biographies so they read
biographies and then the kids were
divided into different groups one group
read and reread and reread those
biographies over and over another group
read the biographies once and then were
tested on those biographies but get this
they tested themselves on those
biographies simply by having to think
about the information that they had read
and trying to remember the information
like what was the biography who was the
person who are they married to what did
they do when did they go to school what
did they do in school what did they do
in the world what role did they play in
life so they essentially tested their
own knowledge simply by going into their
own head and asking themselves what they
could remember about those biographies
now keep in mind here that even though
it's fairly apparent that reading a
biography to three four times might seem
more passive than testing oneself on a
biography that they had read just
once right you could imagine that
thinking about the biography involves
more effort and indeed it does but keep
in mind also that the kids in the second
group were only exposed to the biography
once and yet when you look at the
percent of accurate recall of
information from those
biographies the children that read the
biography once and then made a
deliberate point to think about that
biography in their own mind to
effectively test themselves on that
material just within their heads over
and over but an equal number of times as
the kids that read the biographies
directly on a page over and over vastly
outperformed the kids that read the
biographies over and over put
differently reading and rereading
material and re re rereading material is
far less effective than reading material
and then thinking about that material
testing yourself on that material
forcing yourself to bring that material
to mind in your own mind and this is not
just for sake of remembering more volume
of material but also accuracy of recall
of that material and that at least to me
was pretty surprising at first until one
starts to explore subsequent studies of
the role of testing as a learning tool
and then you start to realize that
testing yourself is Far and Away the
best tool for studying and learning not
just for evaluating your knowledge but
for actually studying and incorporating
that knowledge into your neural circuits
okay so I realize that anytime I or
somebody else talks about a study that
was done in 19 17 we think of people in
these you know like wooden shoes and um
in these School houses that look so
different and uh kids dress so different
let's get a little more modern here um
keep in mind however that the nervous
system hasn't really changed much in
tens of thousands of years um
nonetheless I think it's nice to think
about a more recent study of how best to
study and this study which by the way
we'll provide a link to in the show note
captions as well as a couple of reviews
that include results from similar
studies again I'm pointing to a body of
research not just one study
here looked
at whether or not studying material four
times so study study study
study was better in terms of locking
that information into people's minds
allowing them to use that information
flexibly which is an element of
creativity essentially giving the
Mastery of the material then a different
Group which studied once studied the
material twice studied the material
three times then was tested on the
material or a third group that studied
material once then took one two yes
three tests on the material now so what
I just described was three groups all of
whom read a passage this was a passage
about animals about biology some other
topics too in different experiments
again three groups one group studies
four times they study the material 1 2 3 four
four
times then later they take a test the
second group studies one two three times
takes a test on that material and then
later takes a test the third group
studies the material once then takes
three tests on the material and then
later takes a test so what's analyzed
and compared between these different
groups is their performance on that
final test okay what I put in as the
fifth bin there right because it was
think about it as ssss so study study
study study and then later test or SSS T
study study study test and then later
test or sttt study test test test and
then later test so what's compared and
contrasted is performance on the test
some period of time later now some
experiments made that final test of the
material a couple days later other
experiments made it a couple weeks later
other experiments made it much later
month or even a year later
okay the point here is twofold first of
all based on everything I've told you
thus far you can probably guess who
performed best on the test that occurred
some period of time later okay right the
performance on that final test was
essentially proportional to the number
ofest one had already taken on the
material okay that should be pretty much
obvious given the way we've been going
today in this description of tests as a
way to offset forgetting okay so the
more tests that you
take as a way to expose you yourself to
the material the better you're going to
perform on that material at some later
point now of course at some point you
have to be exposed to the material for
the first time right that's why it's
studying and learning but after one
exposure to new material taking more
tests on that material even if you don't
perform that well on those tests as long
as you're able to see the accurate
answers to those tests and compare your
answers to those answers will lead to
better performance on the ultimate test
and retention of that material at some
later time put differently it's not
about how many times you study the
material or how many times you're
exposed to the material it's about being
exposed to the material doing your best
to focus and attend to that material and
then self- testing yourself on that
material or as the case may be if an an
instructor is the one giving you the
test but nonetheless taking tests on
that material not just once but ideally
two or three times that's what really
locks the material into your neural
circuits that's what's going to lead to
the most pervasive change the most
durable change we should say in your
neural circuits that carry that material
that hold that material in your mind
what we call Neural encoding okay so the
the more times you test yourself or that
you are tested on material the better
your retention of that material now some
people will immediately say well
goodness what if I learned it and then
I'm tested and I'm somehow consolidating
the wrong or inaccurate material but it
doesn't appear to be the case as long as
you learn what the correct answers to
the tests are even if you're getting you
know 40 or 50% or less accurate on those
tests that you take immediately after
the studying
period that's still going to be a better
strategy than rereading the material
which ought to be somewhat surprising it
certainly was surprising to me but you
know what's even more surprising and a
little scary and that we all should know
and I wish I had learned when I was like
in the second grade is that if you ask
students how confident are you in the
material that you just learned how well
do you think you would perform on a test
what you see consistently in these
studies I'm chuckling because it's kind
of mindblowing is that the students who
study the the material that is who were
exposed to the material four times think
that they are going to perform best on
the ultimate exam however the students
that study the material once and then
are tested three times on that
material they think that ultimately
they're going to perform least well for
instance they ask them their confidence
how well do you think he would perform
on a test of this material in two weeks
or in a year or in six months or even
tomorrow they report that is the
students in the study test test test group
group
report much lower confidence in the
material much lower sense of Mastery of
the material compared to the students
that were exposed to the material four
times who are saying yeah I think I
would do pretty well or very well and
guess what the exact opposite is true
put differently when you're exposed to
material over and over and over again
you think you've learned the material in
fact your confidence that you've learned
the material increases with each
subsequent exposure to the material but
actually you haven't learned it at all
compared to the people that are exposed
to the material and then take tests on
the material often times straining to
get the answers right on those tests in
fact sometimes getting those answers
dead wrong and then realizing they get
those answers dead wrong or sometimes
they just sense it but guess what
testing yourself once twice maybe three
times prior to the ultimate test of your
knowledge of that material is Far and
Away the best way to lock that material
into those neural circuits now I say I
wish I had learned this when I was a
student because to some extent I used a
self- testing approach the one most
Salan example of that is I took a course
when I was in college I still remember
it was bioscience's 169 L neuroanatomy
laboratory taught by Ben ree he's still
there I believe and he was known then
and I'm sure still now if he's still
teaching as extremely challenging
Professor extremely challenging not as a
person not as personality but a ton of
detail and rigor and high high high
expectation for this laboratory course
in neuroanatomy which involved lectures
it involved a neuroanatomy textbook
where you'd look at you know essentially
panels of different brain sections from
different species different types of
stains of different brain tissue mind
you this is an undergraduate course and
then there was a laboratory component
hence the L in 169 L where you'd have to
go from microscope station to microscope
station identifying structures based
simply on what you could see down the
microscope and therefore you had to know
what the stain was you know what was
essentially visible to you on the slide
because certain stains reveal certain
things like the what we call the cell
body of neurons versus the um the sort
of wires what we call the axons between
neurons etc etc I remember thinking this
is a really hard course it was a very
difficult course and my mode of studying
for the course involved of course going
to class doing the dissection we
dissected a sheep brain at that time um
so we're literally dissecting an actual
brain we're doing microscope work we're
learning about it from the textbook and
from lecture and there was a ton of new
nomenclature about rostral codal dorsal
vent all the stuff of neuron anatomy and
then at some point I made the decision
perhaps on the basis of sheer overwhelm
to study for neuron Anatomy by laying
down on my bed in my studio apartment I
lived alone and closing my eyes and
flying through the nervous system from
different entry points through the ear
review my coar anatomy through the eye
review my retinal Anatomy through the
dorsal surface of the brain think about
the susai and gyri and then the Corpus
colossum and then I got and and I can
still see it in my mind's eye so my
process of studying for neuroanatomy yes
involved exposure to the material but it
involved hours upon hours of thinking
about the material within my own brain
so it's a little bit meta unto itself
there as a consequence I like to think
in fact I believe um with some
confidence that I have uh very high
Mastery of neuroanatomy in different
species as well now that's my particular
area of expertise I don't think I'm any
kind of savant with respect to neuro
Anatomy I just spent hours upon hours
learning the material and then reviewing the
the
material within my mind so in other
words testing myself here's what I would
do if I were moving down a trajectory of
a of a neural tract for instance between
say the the hippocampus and a
neighboring structure and I didn't know
what was next I would then go look it up
in the textbook and then I'd go back to
this you know mental exercise
visualization type studying it really
wasn't studying is the point the point
is that I was testing myself I was
trying to find the points in which I no
longer had the knowledge to move further
through in this case my mental image of
the brain but through the material and
this is the key aspect of testing it's
not about just knowing how many things
you get right how many things you get
wrong it's about recognizing exactly
what you know and don't know and an
important component of testing is
running up against those things where
you say h i can't remember I don't know
what comes next or I'm certain that that
structure is the fimbria and then you go
and you look and you go it's not the
fima but guess what I'll never forget
for instance the location of the
habenula or what it looks like a
structure which by the way since these
names are kind of uh esoteric at that
time we didn't know what it does it
turns out it's involved in
disappointment it's key to the
depression circuits or the circuits that
underly depression in some individuals
it is um suppressed by viewing of
morning sunlight we know that too and by
getting too much artificial light
exposure in the middle of the night you
enhance activity of the habenula
beautiful work not done by my laboratory
but other Laboratories demonstrates that so what I just did for you there was
so what I just did for you there was hopefully teach you a little something
hopefully teach you a little something about neuron anatomy and depression but
about neuron anatomy and depression but more importantly to just illustrate that
more importantly to just illustrate that how you test yourself can be highly
how you test yourself can be highly individual to the ways in which you
individual to the ways in which you learn best now that contradicts what I
learn best now that contradicts what I said earlier which is that this notion
said earlier which is that this notion that people have different learning
that people have different learning styles and you know some people are
styles and you know some people are verbal Learners and some people are
verbal Learners and some people are auditory Learners and Etc doesn't really
auditory Learners and Etc doesn't really hold up so well anymore but which by the
hold up so well anymore but which by the way is not to say there isn't any
way is not to say there isn't any research to support it it's just that
research to support it it's just that it's heavily contradicted by other
it's heavily contradicted by other research that contradicts that idea but
research that contradicts that idea but your approach your mode of best testing
your approach your mode of best testing yourself on material for sake of
yourself on material for sake of offsetting the forgetting process and
offsetting the forgetting process and for identifying where you have gaps in
for identifying where you have gaps in your knowledge or where you thought you
your knowledge or where you thought you knew something but you don't or you knew
knew something but you don't or you knew something but it's wrong that can be
something but it's wrong that can be accomplished through the approach that's
accomplished through the approach that's best for you which in my case turned out
best for you which in my case turned out to be lying down and thinking about the
to be lying down and thinking about the material in my head head and still to
material in my head head and still to this day when I read a paper I try I
this day when I read a paper I try I don't always do this but what I try to
don't always do this but what I try to do is then take a walk in my yard or
do is then take a walk in my yard or outside and I try and think about the
outside and I try and think about the key components of that paper and think
key components of that paper and think about some of the graphs that are
about some of the graphs that are especially important which is what I'm
especially important which is what I'm going to do now I'd like to take a brief
going to do now I'd like to take a brief break to thank one of our sponsors
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electrolytes I dissolve one packet of element in about 16 to 32 ounces of
element in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I wake up in the morning and
water when I wake up in the morning and I drink that basically first thing in
I drink that basically first thing in the morning I also drink element
the morning I also drink element dissolved in water during any kind of
dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise I'm doing especially
physical exercise I'm doing especially on hot days if I'm sweating a lot and
on hot days if I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes if you'd
losing water and electrolytes if you'd like to try element you can go to drink
like to try element you can go to drink element.com huberman spelled drink
element.com huberman spelled drink lm.com huberman to claim a free element
lm.com huberman to claim a free element sample pack with the purchase of any
sample pack with the purchase of any element drink mix again that's drink
element drink mix again that's drink element.com huberman to claim a free
element.com huberman to claim a free sample pack okay so I like to think that
sample pack okay so I like to think that we're establishing that testing yourself
we're establishing that testing yourself or testing your students or being tested
or testing your students or being tested by your teacher is the best way to
by your teacher is the best way to offset
offset forgetting let's look at the literature
forgetting let's look at the literature that actually supports that statement
that actually supports that statement directly because in the previous
directly because in the previous experiment I described it was either
experiment I described it was either study study study study or study study
study study study study or study study study test or study test test test and
study test or study test test test and then later everybody takes a test at the
then later everybody takes a test at the same time a variant on that was done
same time a variant on that was done where they had one group of
where they had one group of students study material so this is new
students study material so this is new material and when I say study I mean
material and when I say study I mean they were exposed to the material for
they were exposed to the material for the first
the first time and I realize this is a little bit
time and I realize this is a little bit of a problem because we're using the
of a problem because we're using the word study when in fact I'm trying to
word study when in fact I'm trying to make the point that testing yourself is
make the point that testing yourself is studying okay so uh forgive me but this
studying okay so uh forgive me but this is the way it's mapped out in these
is the way it's mapped out in these experiments in these papers should you
experiments in these papers should you look them up in our show note
look them up in our show note captions one group is exposed to the
captions one group is exposed to the material what we're call studying and
material what we're call studying and then takes a test immediately after they
then takes a test immediately after they are told what they got right what they
are told what they got right what they got wrong on that test and what the
got wrong on that test and what the correct answers are and then sometime
correct answers are and then sometime later after a delay they take a test of
later after a delay they take a test of the same material another group studies
the same material another group studies that is they're exposed to the material
that is they're exposed to the material then there's a delay okay that delay
then there's a delay okay that delay could be days it could be weeks this
could be days it could be weeks this experiment has been done every which way
experiment has been done every which way it seems by now then they're tested and
it seems by now then they're tested and then there's another delay and then they
then there's another delay and then they take a test at the same time that group
take a test at the same time that group one did okay so again it's study test
one did okay so again it's study test long delay test for group one or study
long delay test for group one or study delay test delay test for group two
delay test delay test for group two remember the final test is taken at the
remember the final test is taken at the same time by everybody or group three
same time by everybody or group three study that is they're exposed to the
study that is they're exposed to the material then a long long long long long
material then a long long long long long delay then a test and then the ultimate
delay then a test and then the ultimate test okay the test that everybody takes
test okay the test that everybody takes at the same time can you guess which
at the same time can you guess which group performed best and the essence of
group performed best and the essence of this experiment if you're listening to
this experiment if you're listening to this and it's not clear in your mind is
this and it's not clear in your mind is you're either expose to the material and
you're either expose to the material and test it very soon after and then take a
test it very soon after and then take a test after a delay say a week or two
test after a delay say a week or two weeks later or you're exposed the
weeks later or you're exposed the material there's a delay of a few days
material there's a delay of a few days then you take a test and then another
then you take a test and then another few days and then you take a test so
few days and then you take a test so it's more evenly spaced or if you were
it's more evenly spaced or if you were assigned to the third group you'd study
assigned to the third group you'd study you're not going to see the material or
you're not going to see the material or be tested on it until a day or two
be tested on it until a day or two before the big test then you're tested
before the big test then you're tested on it you get your answers back and then
on it you get your answers back and then you're tested on it again you could
you're tested on it again you could imagine that the last group might
imagine that the last group might perform best because they're reexposed
perform best because they're reexposed to the material they're told what the
to the material they're told what the correct answers are so they know what
correct answers are so they know what they got wrong they know what they got
they got wrong they know what they got right and then the next day they're
right and then the next day they're taking the test again I would have
taking the test again I would have thought that group would perform best
thought that group would perform best but it turns out the opposite is true
but it turns out the opposite is true it's pretty wild the best performance
it's pretty wild the best performance comes from being exposed to material
comes from being exposed to material what in this experiment they're called
what in this experiment they're called studying okay so they read a passage or
studying okay so they read a passage or they learn some math material or
they learn some math material or language material or music material or
language material or music material or motor
motor learning then they take a test very soon
learning then they take a test very soon after even same day or next day and then
after even same day or next day and then there's a long delay and then they take
there's a long delay and then they take the test that group performs best put
the test that group performs best put differently test yourself very soon if
differently test yourself very soon if not the same day certainly the next day
not the same day certainly the next day or so very soon after being exposed to
or so very soon after being exposed to material for the first time as opposed
material for the first time as opposed to the last group which performs worst
to the last group which performs worst they perform worse being exposed to
they perform worse being exposed to material then there's a long period of
material then there's a long period of time then you're tested on that material
time then you're tested on that material you are told what you got right what you
you are told what you got right what you got wrong and then the next day you take
got wrong and then the next day you take a test again even with overlapping
a test again even with overlapping questions to the test you took just the
questions to the test you took just the day before and that group performs worst
day before and that group performs worst and the group that studied had a gap
and the group that studied had a gap test that had a gap test they performed
test that had a gap test they performed somewhere in the middle what does this
somewhere in the middle what does this tell us what it tells us is so important
tell us what it tells us is so important Visa neuroplasticity Vis of V best
Visa neuroplasticity Vis of V best learning strategies this is something
learning strategies this is something that goodness I wish I had learned when
that goodness I wish I had learned when I was in graduate school when I was an
I was in graduate school when I was an undergraduate when I was in high school
undergraduate when I was in high school and Elementary School goodness even when
and Elementary School goodness even when I was in kindergarten I wish IID learned
I was in kindergarten I wish IID learned this test yourself on the material that
this test yourself on the material that you were just exposed to very soon after
you were just exposed to very soon after your first exposure to it
your first exposure to it because that offsets the natural
because that offsets the natural forgetting of new material that the
forgetting of new material that the brain is exposed to this is absolutely
brain is exposed to this is absolutely the Hallmark of all the impressive data
the Hallmark of all the impressive data about testing as a tool for learning
about testing as a tool for learning testing oneself or your students or
testing oneself or your students or being tested if you're the student by
being tested if you're the student by your teacher
your teacher as a tool not just for evaluating
as a tool not just for evaluating performance for knowing what you know
performance for knowing what you know and don't know but for consolidating
and don't know but for consolidating that information in your neural circuits
that information in your neural circuits and when I say consolidating that
and when I say consolidating that information in your neural circuits I
information in your neural circuits I realize it's a
realize it's a mouthful what we know is that this
mouthful what we know is that this business of putting the testing soon
business of putting the testing soon after exposure to new material is about
after exposure to new material is about offsetting the forgetting of that
offsetting the forgetting of that material so you might say wait if that's
material so you might say wait if that's true how come studying the material and
true how come studying the material and then waiting and then then taking two
then waiting and then then taking two tests right back to back where you're
tests right back to back where you're learning the material again during the
learning the material again during the test that should be the best performing
test that should be the best performing group ah well there seems to be
group ah well there seems to be something fundamentally different about
something fundamentally different about first exposure to material versus
first exposure to material versus testing yourself on that material and we
testing yourself on that material and we don't know exactly what that is there's
don't know exactly what that is there's some interesting neural Imaging data in
some interesting neural Imaging data in humans that this has to do something
humans that this has to do something with this notion of familiarity with
with this notion of familiarity with material this is very simple so this is
material this is very simple so this is easy to understand even though it
easy to understand even though it involves a little bit of memory
involves a little bit of memory Neuroscience nomenclature
Neuroscience nomenclature familiarity with something recognizing
familiarity with something recognizing it is not the same thing as having
it is not the same thing as having agility with that thing of having
agility with that thing of having Mastery of that thing is not the same
Mastery of that thing is not the same thing as having Mastery of the material
thing as having Mastery of the material of having committed it to memory okay so
of having committed it to memory okay so when you read something over and over
when you read something over and over and over you see it over and over you
and over you see it over and over you hear it over and over you think about it
hear it over and over you think about it over and over of course you're reading
over and over of course you're reading it or you're hearing about it and you
it or you're hearing about it and you think that you're learning the material
think that you're learning the material that your neural circuits are changing
that your neural circuits are changing but it's a pretty passive process or
but it's a pretty passive process or even if it's a difficult chapter to read
even if it's a difficult chapter to read or a difficult passage of
or a difficult passage of Music the difference is when you're
Music the difference is when you're tested on material something happens in
tested on material something happens in your performance of or recalling of if
your performance of or recalling of if it's just you know cognitive or you're
it's just you know cognitive or you're writing it down or you're told to play
writing it down or you're told to play the the music or do the the motor
the the music or do the the motor movement something happens in the error
movement something happens in the error the getting wrong of certain things that
the getting wrong of certain things that cues your nervous system to lock in the
cues your nervous system to lock in the information that you have right and to
information that you have right and to remember what you have wrong so that you
remember what you have wrong so that you then correct it which is Far and Away
then correct it which is Far and Away different than exposure and reexposure
different than exposure and reexposure and reexposure okay so it's a
and reexposure okay so it's a prerequisite to learning that you need
prerequisite to learning that you need to see the material for the first time
to see the material for the first time you can't just start testing yourself on
you can't just start testing yourself on material you've never been exposed to I
material you've never been exposed to I suppose you could but you're going to
suppose you could but you're going to get it I would imagine mostly wrong or
get it I would imagine mostly wrong or all wrong but this business of using
all wrong but this business of using testing very soon after first exposure
testing very soon after first exposure to material as a tool to study
to material as a tool to study in order to offset forgetting is clearly
in order to offset forgetting is clearly tapping into this difference between
tapping into this difference between familiarity with something for which we
familiarity with something for which we know certain brain areas are activated
know certain brain areas are activated versus recollection being able to take
versus recollection being able to take that material and bring it to memory
that material and bring it to memory bring it to your focused attention and
bring it to your focused attention and use that material I realize this is a
use that material I realize this is a bit abstract and some of this is still
bit abstract and some of this is still being parsed if you're interested in the
being parsed if you're interested in the Neuroscience of familiarity with
Neuroscience of familiarity with something versus your ability to
something versus your ability to actually recall something and have
actually recall something and have Mastery of that material
Mastery of that material there's a really nice review that I
there's a really nice review that I provide a link to in the show note
provide a link to in the show note caption it's published in the journal
caption it's published in the journal hippocampus I always chuckle at the fact
hippocampus I always chuckle at the fact that there's a journal that named after
that there's a journal that named after a brain structure after all as far as I
a brain structure after all as far as I know there isn't a journal called retina
know there isn't a journal called retina or amydala um and I have a brief
or amydala um and I have a brief anecdote from graduate school whereby I
anecdote from graduate school whereby I learned that there was this journal
learned that there was this journal hippocampus and I was at a graduate it
hippocampus and I was at a graduate it was my first graduate student gathering
was my first graduate student gathering in graduate school and the guy who
in graduate school and the guy who hosted it um turns out is AUM AR in the
hosted it um turns out is AUM AR in the field of learning and memory and I was
field of learning and memory and I was saying you know this is ridiculous like
saying you know this is ridiculous like there's a journal called hippocampus
there's a journal called hippocampus here I am first year graduate student he
here I am first year graduate student he goes yeah there is and I said yeah
goes yeah there is and I said yeah that's so silly like who are the who are
that's so silly like who are the who are the like who are the idiots that name a
the like who are the idiots that name a journal after a brain structure turns
journal after a brain structure turns out there's also a journal called
out there's also a journal called cerebral cortex and there's probably one
cerebral cortex and there's probably one about spinal cord so it turns out I I
about spinal cord so it turns out I I was the idiot saying this and the guy I
was the idiot saying this and the guy I was talking to who of course was the
was talking to who of course was the host of the party said yeah actually uh
host of the party said yeah actually uh that's my journal I founded the journal
that's my journal I founded the journal hippoc campus so you can look them up so
hippoc campus so you can look them up so at this Point you're going to take a
at this Point you're going to take a test and it's a super easy test okay I
test and it's a super easy test okay I realize we're a bit into the material
realize we're a bit into the material and we're all probably fatiguing a
and we're all probably fatiguing a little bit marveling I hope at what an
little bit marveling I hope at what an incredible tool testing and in
incredible tool testing and in particular self- testing soon after
particular self- testing soon after being exposed to new material is and the
being exposed to new material is and the question is this and by the way this is
question is this and by the way this is an open-ended question you're not
an open-ended question you're not supposed to know the answer because I
supposed to know the answer because I haven't told you the answer yet but I
haven't told you the answer yet but I want you to think about
want you to think about this if one looks at the majority of
this if one looks at the majority of data in this whole field of testing as a
data in this whole field of testing as a studying
studying tool how much improvement do you think
tool how much improvement do you think you get from testing yourself once on
you get from testing yourself once on new material do you think it's a you
new material do you think it's a you know 10% Improvement a 20% Improvement
know 10% Improvement a 20% Improvement so here I'm just comparing to testing
so here I'm just comparing to testing yourself once on material that you were
yourself once on material that you were just exposed to For the First Time
just exposed to For the First Time versus not testing yourself at all okay
versus not testing yourself at all okay how how much do you think you improve
how how much do you think you improve the answer is about 50% 5 zero and I can
the answer is about 50% 5 zero and I can say that on the basis of the fact
say that on the basis of the fact that in studies of musical learning of
that in studies of musical learning of mathematical learning of language
mathematical learning of language learning of motor learning when subjects
learning of motor learning when subjects are exposed to new material and then
are exposed to new material and then tested at some period of time later the
tested at some period of time later the percentage of information they get right
percentage of information they get right or that they are able to perform
or that they are able to perform something correctly diminishes over time
something correctly diminishes over time especially because they're not doing any
especially because they're not doing any practice and no testing in the
practice and no testing in the intervening time this was built into
intervening time this was built into these experiments
these experiments and then you simply ask how much of the
and then you simply ask how much of the material was
material was forgotten if they just were exposed to
forgotten if they just were exposed to the material so in the case of say music
the material so in the case of say music learning this would be you know your
learning this would be you know your teacher sits down next to you and shows
teacher sits down next to you and shows you the scales on the piano but then
you the scales on the piano but then you're not practicing them in between
you're not practicing them in between versus um or perhaps another example
versus um or perhaps another example would be somebody gives you a lecture
would be somebody gives you a lecture about a particular phase in history and
about a particular phase in history and then you're not being exposed to the
then you're not being exposed to the material again and you're not self-
material again and you're not self- testing versus if you just take one test
testing versus if you just take one test even a self-directed test of the
even a self-directed test of the material immediately after irrespective
material immediately after irrespective of how well you perform you have the
of how well you perform you have the amount of forgetting okay I want you to
amount of forgetting okay I want you to think about self testing in this way
think about self testing in this way because we're thinking about optimal
because we're thinking about optimal studying strategies you have the amount
studying strategies you have the amount of forgetting that would normally occur
of forgetting that would normally occur this is oh so important in fact I don't
this is oh so important in fact I don't even know that most neuroscientists
even know that most neuroscientists think about learning and neuroplasticity
think about learning and neuroplasticity this way most everybody including
this way most everybody including neuroscientists are taught we taught
neuroscientists are taught we taught continue to be taught that you're
continue to be taught that you're exposed to new material you focus okay
exposed to new material you focus okay then during sleep there's remodeling of
then during sleep there's remodeling of the connections all that's true but we
the connections all that's true but we really need to think about how most
really need to think about how most information that comes into our nervous
information that comes into our nervous system each day is forgotten most of it
system each day is forgotten most of it is completely discarded there are some
is completely discarded there are some rare clinical deficits where people
rare clinical deficits where people remember everything and I'll tell you
remember everything and I'll tell you these people really struggle in life
these people really struggle in life they do not do well in work in
they do not do well in work in relationships they remember every little
relationships they remember every little detail of everything and it is
detail of everything and it is incredibly disruptive to their quality
incredibly disruptive to their quality of life it's nothing you want you want
of life it's nothing you want you want to have a great memory for the right
to have a great memory for the right things so when you self test material
things so when you self test material you have the amount of forgetting that
you have the amount of forgetting that occurs compared to if you're just
occurs compared to if you're just exposed to the material I want you to
exposed to the material I want you to keep that fact in mind because that fact
keep that fact in mind because that fact is the one that really hit me upside the
is the one that really hit me upside the head and made me realize goodness
head and made me realize goodness gracious how I wish that I'd self-
gracious how I wish that I'd self- tested myself on material that I wanted
tested myself on material that I wanted to remember over time rather than
to remember over time rather than reading it over and over I had this
reading it over and over I had this elaborate process for studying that I
elaborate process for studying that I used all through college and graduate
used all through college and graduate school and it worked pretty well for me
school and it worked pretty well for me where I'd read and highlight then I'd
where I'd read and highlight then I'd write out my notes then I would write
write out my notes then I would write little paragraphs about that stuff now
little paragraphs about that stuff now some of that probably mimicked self-
some of that probably mimicked self- testing indeed it had to have and then
testing indeed it had to have and then of course I would take the quizzes and I
of course I would take the quizzes and I would go to office hours you know once I
would go to office hours you know once I got serious about school I got really
got serious about school I got really serious about school and of course I
serious about school and of course I still forget things I've made errors on
still forget things I've made errors on this podcast before apart from going too
this podcast before apart from going too fast or making a joke that people didn't
fast or making a joke that people didn't perceive as a joke a whole story there
perceive as a joke a whole story there but in any case of course I make errors
but in any case of course I make errors of course I've forgotten certain things
of course I've forgotten certain things and sometimes I misspeak I always strive
and sometimes I misspeak I always strive to get things accurately we correct
to get things accurately we correct things in the show note captions if
things in the show note captions if they're called out to us we're now using
they're called out to us we're now using AI to review the podcast and adjust
AI to review the podcast and adjust anywhere using insertion so actually
anywhere using insertion so actually replacing those words if we need to and
replacing those words if we need to and so on and so forth but yes we all forget
so on and so forth but yes we all forget things we all make errors but if I had
things we all make errors but if I had just known that testing myself on
just known that testing myself on material while walking out of class or
material while walking out of class or soon after getting home or later that
soon after getting home or later that evening or the next day would allow me
evening or the next day would allow me to perform so much better on an exam a
to perform so much better on an exam a midterm or a final exam and of course I
midterm or a final exam and of course I still would have studied because I was
still would have studied because I was committed and you should still study as
committed and you should still study as much as you feel is necessary to get
much as you feel is necessary to get Mastery of the material for
Mastery of the material for you however if I had known that testing
you however if I had known that testing oneself or being tested soon after
oneself or being tested soon after exposure to material would have the
exposure to material would have the amount of forgetting even out to a year
amount of forgetting even out to a year later I definitely would have saved
later I definitely would have saved myself a lot of time let's talk about
myself a lot of time let's talk about some specifics of ways that you can self
some specifics of ways that you can self test or if you're a teacher or if you
test or if you're a teacher or if you have good dialogue with your teacher and
have good dialogue with your teacher and they are open-minded perhaps they are
they are open-minded perhaps they are open to hearing about what are the best
open to hearing about what are the best forms of testing oneself as a tool for
learning the best tests are open-ended short
short answer very minimal prompt tests not
answer very minimal prompt tests not unlike the type that we've taken today
unlike the type that we've taken today during this podcast as compared to
during this podcast as compared to multiple choice tests multiple choice
multiple choice tests multiple choice questions allow for familiarity of names
questions allow for familiarity of names of facts you know it's going to be a b c
of facts you know it's going to be a b c d and sometimes e is you know A and C
d and sometimes e is you know A and C and so on and so forth and within each
and so on and so forth and within each of those a b CDE e answers and you're
of those a b CDE e answers and you're looking for the right answer you're
looking for the right answer you're looking for the familiarity the
looking for the familiarity the recognition of something yes this not
recognition of something yes this not that okay that's the best answer you
that okay that's the best answer you Circle C okay this kind of thing as
Circle C okay this kind of thing as opposed to an open-ended question where
opposed to an open-ended question where you have to write out your answer you
you have to write out your answer you have to recall the information right it
have to recall the information right it requires a much greater degree of
requires a much greater degree of Mastery of the information than does
Mastery of the information than does familiarity or recognition of the
familiarity or recognition of the material so the best tests as study
material so the best tests as study tools are going to be open-ended short
tools are going to be open-ended short answer questions or even long answer
answer questions or even long answer questions now there's one exception to
questions now there's one exception to this which are multiple choice tests
this which are multiple choice tests that include tricks okay if you've ever
that include tricks okay if you've ever taken the GRE the graduate school
taken the GRE the graduate school entrance exam or the elsat or the MCAT
entrance exam or the elsat or the MCAT there are some questions in there that
there are some questions in there that are very straightforward but in those
are very straightforward but in those standardized tests they tend to include
standardized tests they tend to include some quote unquote trick questions in
some quote unquote trick questions in which those questions don't allow you to
which those questions don't allow you to just recognize the correct answer and
just recognize the correct answer and distinguish it from the other incorrect
distinguish it from the other incorrect answers but rather they have answers in
answers but rather they have answers in there that on first blush look like the
there that on first blush look like the right answer and people have a tendency
right answer and people have a tendency to Circle those and move on or to select
to Circle those and move on or to select those and move on but if you think about
those and move on but if you think about the material a little more deeply turns
the material a little more deeply turns out those quote unquote obvious answers
out those quote unquote obvious answers are actually the incorrect answers so
are actually the incorrect answers so there are versions of multiple choice
there are versions of multiple choice tests where it requires a greater degree
tests where it requires a greater degree of Mastery of the material where simple
of Mastery of the material where simple familiarity won't serve you and you
familiarity won't serve you and you actually have to be able to recall the
actually have to be able to recall the different components of information
different components of information leading into that but those are a bit
leading into that but those are a bit more rare certainly in the context of
more rare certainly in the context of other kinds of learning like musical
other kinds of learning like musical learning although I suppose for music
learning although I suppose for music theory that could be relevant but when I
theory that could be relevant but when I say Music Learning I'm just kind of
say Music Learning I'm just kind of fating to the idea of the mechanics of
fating to the idea of the mechanics of musical learning but of course there's
musical learning but of course there's music theory Etc so what I'm effectively
music theory Etc so what I'm effectively saying is the ultimate exam the final
saying is the ultimate exam the final exam the midterm exam the exam that's
exam the midterm exam the exam that's administered to you rarely do you have
administered to you rarely do you have control over the format of that exam
control over the format of that exam sometimes it's mixed format but the
sometimes it's mixed format but the different ways in which you self- test
different ways in which you self- test as a form of studying are really key and
as a form of studying are really key and ideally you would make these open-ended
ideally you would make these open-ended in other words you would not simply rely
in other words you would not simply rely on multiple choice you would rely on a
on multiple choice you would rely on a form of self- testing or that you give
form of self- testing or that you give your students or that your teacher gives
your students or that your teacher gives you that requires you to think about the
you that requires you to think about the material with some degree of depth with
material with some degree of depth with some degree of effort and of course
some degree of effort and of course you're going to get certain things wrong
you're going to get certain things wrong now I would hope that if testing is
now I would hope that if testing is being used as a learning tool as opposed
being used as a learning tool as opposed to just for evaluation but here we're
to just for evaluation but here we're talking about using testing as a
talking about using testing as a learning tool that it wouldn't impact at
learning tool that it wouldn't impact at least not at that moment your final
least not at that moment your final performance in the course or whatever it
performance in the course or whatever it is rather it is testing for sake of
is rather it is testing for sake of learning learning now we know from the
learning learning now we know from the literature that students don't like pop
literature that students don't like pop quizzes I gave you a few today and
quizzes I gave you a few today and forgive me they don't like pop quizzes
forgive me they don't like pop quizzes and we know this in the form of the
and we know this in the form of the reduction in teaching evaluation scores
reduction in teaching evaluation scores okay uh having received teaching
okay uh having received teaching evaluation scores of different uh let's
evaluation scores of different uh let's say values over the years and I always
say values over the years and I always take the feedback
take the feedback seriously one Salient comment that just
seriously one Salient comment that just leapt into my mind was the fact that I
leapt into my mind was the fact that I end up mentioning my Bulldog Costello
end up mentioning my Bulldog Costello too often in class so here I'm
too often in class so here I'm mentioning him again just to get back at
mentioning him again just to get back at that one student that said I mention too
that one student that said I mention too much I'll mention him as much as I want
much I'll mention him as much as I want the point here is that when students
the point here is that when students evaluate their teachers they tend to
evaluate their teachers they tend to punish their teachers for pop quizzes
punish their teachers for pop quizzes does that mean pop quizzes aren't
does that mean pop quizzes aren't effective no but you know what's more
effective no but you know what's more effective telling students at the outset
effective telling students at the outset of class or telling yourself at the
of class or telling yourself at the outset of any kind of learning
outset of any kind of learning Expedition because this isn't just about
Expedition because this isn't just about the classroom that you're going to take
the classroom that you're going to take a bunch of exams that you're going to
a bunch of exams that you're going to use testing or quizzes whatever you want
use testing or quizzes whatever you want to call them as a form of teaching and
to call them as a form of teaching and learning and that you can expect five
learning and that you can expect five tests or five quizzes during the course
tests or five quizzes during the course of being presented the material or that
of being presented the material or that you are going to test yourself every day
you are going to test yourself every day after the material now sometimes you
after the material now sometimes you have to go from one class to the next
have to go from one class to the next class there isn't an opportunity to test
class there isn't an opportunity to test yourself but guess what's not going to
yourself but guess what's not going to be helpful walking out of class and
be helpful walking out of class and getting immediately on to your phone we
getting immediately on to your phone we know that that probably inhibits your
know that that probably inhibits your ability to remember the material because
ability to remember the material because it's going to enhance forgetting because
it's going to enhance forgetting because you do have this key
you do have this key opportunity right after being exposed to
opportunity right after being exposed to new material to help offset the
new material to help offset the forgetting by testing yourself on that
forgetting by testing yourself on that material as soon as possible after being
material as soon as possible after being exposed to it so again even though I did
exposed to it so again even though I did not attend school in an era where we had
not attend school in an era where we had smartphones and texting I recall walking
smartphones and texting I recall walking out of class and just walking out of
out of class and just walking out of class and going to my bicycle but of
class and going to my bicycle but of course there were people to talk to
course there were people to talk to there were other things to attend to if
there were other things to attend to if you're really serious about learning
you're really serious about learning material take a few seconds maybe even a
material take a few seconds maybe even a few minutes after being exposed to that
few minutes after being exposed to that material and think about that material
material and think about that material test yourself on it and if you find that
test yourself on it and if you find that you don't know the material you're
you don't know the material you're confused by it or overwhelmed by it
confused by it or overwhelmed by it great you just accomplished the first
great you just accomplished the first step in queuing your nervous system to
step in queuing your nervous system to the fact that it needs to learn that
the fact that it needs to learn that material and you've created an
material and you've created an opportunity for enhanced neuroplasticity
opportunity for enhanced neuroplasticity which is really what all of the stuff
which is really what all of the stuff about testing as a form of studying is
about testing as a form of studying is about you're going to test yourself so
about you're going to test yourself so that you figure out what you don't know
that you figure out what you don't know so that you then look up that material
so that you then look up that material test yourself on it again so that
test yourself on it again so that ultimately you
ultimately you forget very little of it if any now
forget very little of it if any now there are other components to learning
there are other components to learning and neuroplasticity that I've talked
and neuroplasticity that I've talked about on previous podcast that are just
about on previous podcast that are just too interesting not to mention but I'm
too interesting not to mention but I'm just going to mention them in brief
just going to mention them in brief things like Gap effects Gap effects are
things like Gap effects Gap effects are oh so cool and they've been demonstrated
oh so cool and they've been demonstrated for lots of different forms of learning
for lots of different forms of learning Gap effects
Gap effects are what I just did which is to take
are what I just did which is to take periodic pauses in the learning of
periodic pauses in the learning of material as short as 5 to 10 seconds but
material as short as 5 to 10 seconds but even as long as 30 seconds during which
even as long as 30 seconds during which guess what your hippocampus the neurons
guess what your hippocampus the neurons in your hippocampus repeat information
in your hippocampus repeat information that you've been exposed to for the
that you've been exposed to for the first time at a rate 20 to 30 times
first time at a rate 20 to 30 times faster than
faster than typical just as it does during rapid ey
typical just as it does during rapid ey movement sleep so if you are a teacher
movement sleep so if you are a teacher and or if you are a
and or if you are a learner periodically throughout an
learner periodically throughout an episode a class or whatever of trying to
episode a class or whatever of trying to learn new motor skills or music skills
learn new motor skills or music skills or whatever kind of
or whatever kind of learning pause and let your hippocampus
learning pause and let your hippocampus generate more repetitions of that
generate more repetitions of that material than it would otherwise if you
material than it would otherwise if you just tried to Barrel through so I
just tried to Barrel through so I realize as we've gone through today's
realize as we've gone through today's discussion that words like test and quiz
discussion that words like test and quiz evaluation offsetting forgetting all of
evaluation offsetting forgetting all of that stuff can you know Spike people's
that stuff can you know Spike people's cortisol it can uh give us flashbacks to
cortisol it can uh give us flashbacks to uncomfortable classroom experiences
uncomfortable classroom experiences related to being called on cold called
related to being called on cold called uh for the answer um a vicious trick
uh for the answer um a vicious trick that instructors play keep in mind that
that instructors play keep in mind that testing as a form of studying whether or
testing as a form of studying whether or not self-directed or given to you by a
not self-directed or given to you by a teacher is not for sake of evaluation at
teacher is not for sake of evaluation at the level of okay you know you get an
the level of okay you know you get an exam at the end of a lecture and then
exam at the end of a lecture and then you do your best to answer those
you do your best to answer those questions and then you turn it in and it
questions and then you turn it in and it impacts your grade no this is
impacts your grade no this is about being told or revealing to
about being told or revealing to yourself how much you know and don't
yourself how much you know and don't know and then of course being told the
know and then of course being told the correct answers so that you can compare
correct answers so that you can compare your answers to the correct answers and
your answers to the correct answers and doing this frequently and ideally very
doing this frequently and ideally very soon after being exposed to the material
soon after being exposed to the material that's one of the key things that I keep
that's one of the key things that I keep coming back to again and again here um
coming back to again and again here um because it's something that frankly was
because it's something that frankly was not done well I was in school um for
not done well I was in school um for whatever reason and I think that's
whatever reason and I think that's largely because when people hear the
largely because when people hear the word testing they think of evaluation
word testing they think of evaluation and if anything at least in the United
and if anything at least in the United States over the last 30 years but in
States over the last 30 years but in particular over the last 15 years
particular over the last 15 years there's been this tendency to shift away
there's been this tendency to shift away from formal evaluation you know I
from formal evaluation you know I personally believe that one can learn in
personally believe that one can learn in many different styles and many different
many different styles and many different contexts I of course as a university
contexts I of course as a university Professor um believe that for certain
Professor um believe that for certain topics in particular science and
topics in particular science and medicine and health but other topics as
medicine and health but other topics as well of course that formal rigorous
well of course that formal rigorous coursework is by far the best way to
coursework is by far the best way to learn information for
learn information for me but that regardless of whether or not
me but that regardless of whether or not you're learning just from YouTube or
you're learning just from YouTube or you're learning from podcasts or you're
you're learning from podcasts or you're learning from books you're learning from
learning from books you're learning from the school of life as it were from
the school of life as it were from experience that testing as a form of
experience that testing as a form of studying is absolutely key and gosh
studying is absolutely key and gosh there's such a beautiful body of
there's such a beautiful body of research in fact I'll link to several
research in fact I'll link to several studies including a review entitled
studies including a review entitled testing enhances learning a review of
testing enhances learning a review of the literature as well as a beautiful
the literature as well as a beautiful article test enhanced learning uh which
article test enhanced learning uh which gets into this and there's a wonderful
gets into this and there's a wonderful book about this that I'll also provide a
book about this that I'll also provide a link to in the show note captions um all
link to in the show note captions um all of course authored by researchers who
of course authored by researchers who have worked squarely in this field and
have worked squarely in this field and compare the data on testing as a
compare the data on testing as a studying tool to other forms of studying
studying tool to other forms of studying and learning so it's a really impressive
and learning so it's a really impressive literature that I do believe we all
literature that I do believe we all should have known about and that's why
should have known about and that's why I'm passing it on to you now now before
I'm passing it on to you now now before we wrap up I want to make sure that I
we wrap up I want to make sure that I emphasize some of the other key
emphasize some of the other key components to studying and learning that
components to studying and learning that have nothing to do with testing as a
have nothing to do with testing as a studying
studying tool and those are the role of emotion
tool and those are the role of emotion the role of story and the role of what's
the role of story and the role of what's called interleaving now in terms of
called interleaving now in terms of emotion I think we all inherently
emotion I think we all inherently understand that more emotionally Laden
understand that more emotionally Laden experiences are remembered more durably
experiences are remembered more durably we tend not to forget them in fact this
we tend not to forget them in fact this is the basis of things like PTSD
is the basis of things like PTSD post-traumatic stress disorder it is the
post-traumatic stress disorder it is the reality that one trial learning that is
reality that one trial learning that is exposure to something and never
exposure to something and never forgetting it occurs very readily when
forgetting it occurs very readily when the thing that we're exposed to is
the thing that we're exposed to is negative or has a very heavy negative
negative or has a very heavy negative emotional Salient so it could be
emotional Salient so it could be something we read or something we see
something we read or something we see sometimes it's something that happens to
sometimes it's something that happens to us you know I I don't like the idea of
us you know I I don't like the idea of that but this is true your nervous
that but this is true your nervous system is wired such neuroplasticity is
system is wired such neuroplasticity is such that stressful experiences because
such that stressful experiences because they deploy such massive amounts of
they deploy such massive amounts of adrenaline epinephrine as well as other
adrenaline epinephrine as well as other neuromodulators allow very quickly for
neuromodulators allow very quickly for the milu the environment of the neural
the milu the environment of the neural circuits that led up to that experience
circuits that led up to that experience to strengthen their connections with one
to strengthen their connections with one trial so-call one trial learning this is
trial so-call one trial learning this is why sadly although at the same time from
why sadly although at the same time from an Adaptive perspective we say
an Adaptive perspective we say fortunately if you were to step outside
fortunately if you were to step outside today and God forbid see somebody get
today and God forbid see somebody get hit by a
hit by a car you would remember that chances are
car you would remember that chances are you would remember that forever now that
you would remember that forever now that does not mean that the emotional
does not mean that the emotional components of that memory are
components of that memory are necessarily going to stay within you
necessarily going to stay within you there are tools for the treatment of
there are tools for the treatment of PTSD such as the different ones that
PTSD such as the different ones that come to mind are you know systematic
come to mind are you know systematic exposure therapy where you're reexposed
exposure therapy where you're reexposed to that idea or memory sometimes even
to that idea or memory sometimes even circumstance with of course the support
circumstance with of course the support of a trained professional typically a
of a trained professional typically a psychiatrist or
psychiatrist or psychologist and the emotional load of
psychologist and the emotional load of that experience is gradually uncoupled
that experience is gradually uncoupled from your M Mor of the experience
from your M Mor of the experience there's things like EMDR there are
there's things like EMDR there are pharmacologic approaches some of these
pharmacologic approaches some of these are combined with the sorts of things
are combined with the sorts of things I've described I've done entire episodes
I've described I've done entire episodes about stress and PTSD again you can find
about stress and PTSD again you can find those at hubman lab.com by putting
those at hubman lab.com by putting stress PTSD into the search
stress PTSD into the search function however we know that it is the
function however we know that it is the same neuromodulators mainly epinephrine
same neuromodulators mainly epinephrine and norepinephrine deployed at massive
and norepinephrine deployed at massive amounts in those moments where something
amounts in those moments where something very stressful happens that allows the
very stressful happens that allows the neural circuits that led up to the
neural circuits that led up to the circumstance as well as the neural
circumstance as well as the neural circuits that encode that visual scene
circuits that encode that visual scene and scenes like it or sounds like it to
and scenes like it or sounds like it to be locked in and linked to the stress
be locked in and linked to the stress response now what this is really all
response now what this is really all saying is that negative stuff is
saying is that negative stuff is remembered typically the first time and
remembered typically the first time and every time and very durably over time as
every time and very durably over time as compared to positive experiences which
compared to positive experiences which as far as Peak experiences go right
as far as Peak experiences go right birth of your first child a wedding a
birth of your first child a wedding a wonderful um professional or person
wonderful um professional or person experience those two can be one trial
experience those two can be one trial learning and memory but most things that
learning and memory but most things that we are exposed to are not at those
we are exposed to are not at those extremes either negative or
extremes either negative or positive however we know that any kind
positive however we know that any kind of story any kind of emotional emphasis
of story any kind of emotional emphasis on material either in the delivery of
on material either in the delivery of that material but certainly in the way
that material but certainly in the way that that material is perceived by you
that that material is perceived by you like getting really excited about
like getting really excited about something you want to learn or thinking
something you want to learn or thinking something's really awful is likely to be
something's really awful is likely to be more readily and stably committed to
more readily and stably committed to your memory and that's because of these
your memory and that's because of these neuromodulators like epinephrine and
neuromodulators like epinephrine and norepinephrine but other neuromodulators
norepinephrine but other neuromodulators as well that wire those experiences into
as well that wire those experiences into your neural circuits again these
your neural circuits again these neuromodulators epinephrine
neuromodulators epinephrine norepinephrine we also hear about
norepinephrine we also hear about acetycholine dopamine Etc they can
acetycholine dopamine Etc they can operate at low levels and sort of
operate at low levels and sort of background levels they can create subtle
background levels they can create subtle fluctuations and mood focus and
fluctuations and mood focus and attention or they can create massive
attention or they can create massive shifts in mood focus and attention
shifts in mood focus and attention depending on their levels their time and
depending on their levels their time and much much more Point here is that if
much much more Point here is that if you're a teacher Andor if you are a
you're a teacher Andor if you are a learner paying attention to your
learner paying attention to your internal State as you're trying to learn
internal State as you're trying to learn is very key we've all had that teacher
is very key we've all had that teacher that lecture that just kind of drones
that lecture that just kind of drones things out in monotone if you need to
things out in monotone if you need to learn the material coming out of a
learn the material coming out of a source like that person or otherwise
source like that person or otherwise you're going to have to ramp up your
you're going to have to ramp up your level of internal attention consciously
level of internal attention consciously in order to bring about some emotional
in order to bring about some emotional salience some intensity to the way it's
salience some intensity to the way it's perceived and you can do that just
perceived and you can do that just through your own thinking as opposed to
through your own thinking as opposed to the situation whether you have a super
the situation whether you have a super Dynamic teacher who's telling you things
Dynamic teacher who's telling you things with wide eyes and perhaps even cracking
with wide eyes and perhaps even cracking jokes by the way the teachers that crack
jokes by the way the teachers that crack jokes get lower teacher evaluations than
jokes get lower teacher evaluations than those that don't crack jokes or swear
those that don't crack jokes or swear did you know that the teachers that
did you know that the teachers that crack jokes and swear they're perceived
crack jokes and swear they're perceived as more likable but they get lower
as more likable but they get lower overall evaluations typically they're
overall evaluations typically they're seen as less professional and therefore
seen as less professional and therefore less good teachers by their students
less good teachers by their students that's why I try not to make too many
that's why I try not to make too many jokes or swear in my
jokes or swear in my lectures the point being that we all
lectures the point being that we all have those really wonderful Dynamic
have those really wonderful Dynamic teachers yes it's much easier to learn
teachers yes it's much easier to learn and remember that material you still
and remember that material you still need to test yourself on it but it's
need to test yourself on it but it's much easier to learn that material for
much easier to learn that material for the very reasons I say it before it's a
the very reasons I say it before it's a lesser example of more deployment of the
lesser example of more deployment of the neuromodulators in you the learner that
neuromodulators in you the learner that is exposed to that material okay so
is exposed to that material okay so emotion matters so much so that in a
emotion matters so much so that in a beautiful review about learning a memory
beautiful review about learning a memory from the Great James maau one of The
from the Great James maau one of The Luminaries in modern neuroscience and
Luminaries in modern neuroscience and psychology of memory he talked about a
psychology of memory he talked about a medieval practice this is pretty wild
medieval practice this is pretty wild whereby people and kids kids are people
whereby people and kids kids are people of course but adults and kids were
of course but adults and kids were taught information and then thrown
taught information and then thrown literally thrown into cold water why to
literally thrown into cold water why to deploy adrenaline and consolidate memory
deploy adrenaline and consolidate memory of the material they were exposed to now
of the material they were exposed to now I know we've covered deliberate cold
I know we've covered deliberate cold exposure on this podcast before no I'm
exposure on this podcast before no I'm not saying you need to do a cold plunge
not saying you need to do a cold plunge after being exposed to new material but
after being exposed to new material but guess what they were doing that many
guess what they were doing that many hundreds of years ago and it makes sense
hundreds of years ago and it makes sense logically based on all our understanding
logically based on all our understanding of the neurobiology underlying things
of the neurobiology underlying things like PTSD underlying emotion Laden
like PTSD underlying emotion Laden memory formation and consolidation and
memory formation and consolidation and our ability to remember things that were
our ability to remember things that were emotionally Laden much better than
emotionally Laden much better than things that were less emotionally Laden
things that were less emotionally Laden so if you want to take a cold shower
so if you want to take a cold shower after learning some material or even
after learning some material or even better testing yourself mentally on that
better testing yourself mentally on that material while in a cold shower or cold
material while in a cold shower or cold plunge you certainly can just don't stay
plunge you certainly can just don't stay in there too long use best practices if
in there too long use best practices if you want to know what those best
you want to know what those best practices are for deliberate cold
practices are for deliberate cold exposure you can check out our
exposure you can check out our deliberate cold exposure newsletter at
deliberate cold exposure newsletter at huberman lab.com it's completely zero
huberman lab.com it's completely zero cost you don't even need to sign up you
cost you don't even need to sign up you simply go to newsletter in the menu tab
simply go to newsletter in the menu tab and you can find that PDF and now
and you can find that PDF and now because you are becoming proficient in
because you are becoming proficient in an understanding of neuroplasticity and
an understanding of neuroplasticity and learning and testing and neuromodulators
learning and testing and neuromodulators like epinephrine yes drinking caffeine
like epinephrine yes drinking caffeine will increase your levels of EP nephrine
will increase your levels of EP nephrine not strikingly so but enough that it
not strikingly so but enough that it probably helps you learn things a little
probably helps you learn things a little bit better should you drink the coffee
bit better should you drink the coffee after listen that's getting a little bit
after listen that's getting a little bit too down in the details the most
too down in the details the most important components to learning are
important components to learning are that you be alert so that you can attend
that you be alert so that you can attend so you can pay attention to the material
so you can pay attention to the material you're trying to learn and then testing
you're trying to learn and then testing yourself later and of course the other
yourself later and of course the other component which is getting sufficient
component which is getting sufficient amounts of great sleep each night and I
amounts of great sleep each night and I highly recommend doing nsdr I mentioned
highly recommend doing nsdr I mentioned Gap effects before those are very very
Gap effects before those are very very cool I just used another one now and the
cool I just used another one now and the final tool for studying that I believe
final tool for studying that I believe is not discuss enough and is a bit
is not discuss enough and is a bit counterintuitive so it's a fun one to
counterintuitive so it's a fun one to just mention and that perhaps you can
just mention and that perhaps you can explore in your own studying and
explore in your own studying and learning Adventures is interleaving of
learning Adventures is interleaving of information this one's kind of wild
information this one's kind of wild actually turns out that if your
actually turns out that if your instructor or you takes information
instructor or you takes information about something that they're trying to
about something that they're trying to teach you or you're trying to learn
teach you or you're trying to learn maybe it's piano know maybe it's
maybe it's piano know maybe it's Neuroscience maybe it's how to learn
Neuroscience maybe it's how to learn better and every once in a while throws
better and every once in a while throws in a little anecdote about something
in a little anecdote about something let's just say or mention something
let's just say or mention something about the Olympics or incorporate
about the Olympics or incorporate something that seems pseudo random
something that seems pseudo random because it's not actually related to the
because it's not actually related to the material you're trying to learn turns
material you're trying to learn turns out that that acts not as a gap in the
out that that acts not as a gap in the same sense that Gap effects which are
same sense that Gap effects which are times in which you do nothing in order
times in which you do nothing in order to get more repetitions of the material
to get more repetitions of the material you just heard in your hippocampus but
you just heard in your hippocampus but rather those breaks of interleaving
rather those breaks of interleaving information not just getting a steady
information not just getting a steady barrage like drinking from a fire hose
barrage like drinking from a fire hose of new information from start to finish
of new information from start to finish turn out to enhance overall learning
turn out to enhance overall learning ability probably we think at a
ability probably we think at a mechanistic level because the neural
mechanistic level because the neural circuits are able to generate more
circuits are able to generate more repetition similar to Gap effects but
repetition similar to Gap effects but actually in a very interesting way also
actually in a very interesting way also because by injecting other information
because by injecting other information that seems totally unrelated random or
that seems totally unrelated random or pseudo random it allows the brain areas
pseudo random it allows the brain areas that are responsible for encoding
that are responsible for encoding information to take whatever new
information to take whatever new information you're learning and to
information you're learning and to incorporate it with existing knowledge
incorporate it with existing knowledge or even distantly related knowledge so
or even distantly related knowledge so does this mean that you should learn
does this mean that you should learn math and history in the same lecture
math and history in the same lecture well I think that might be a bit
well I think that might be a bit overwhelming kind of like drinking from
overwhelming kind of like drinking from Two Fire hoses here we're talking about
Two Fire hoses here we're talking about interleaving challenging information
interleaving challenging information that's new to you with little anecdotes
that's new to you with little anecdotes little bits of information that perhaps
little bits of information that perhaps are new to you but don't require a lot
are new to you but don't require a lot of challenge which is of course why
of challenge which is of course why every once in a while I throw in a
every once in a while I throw in a little anecdote about my Bulldog or
little anecdote about my Bulldog or learning neuroanatomy or something of
learning neuroanatomy or something of that sort it's not just to provide a
that sort it's not just to provide a break it's to provide examples that are
break it's to provide examples that are related but not Central to the material
related but not Central to the material that we've been talking about today
that we've been talking about today which is all about how to study and
which is all about how to study and learn optimally okay so I realize that
learn optimally okay so I realize that many of you are not students any longer
many of you are not students any longer although some of you are but in many
although some of you are but in many ways we are all students we are all
ways we are all students we are all constantly being exposed to all sorts of
constantly being exposed to all sorts of information out in the world and
information out in the world and goodness knows um thank goodness we
goodness knows um thank goodness we don't remember it all but there is of
don't remember it all but there is of course information that we would like to
course information that we would like to remember that we would really like to
remember that we would really like to consolidate in our memory and be able to
consolidate in our memory and be able to have some Mastery over earlier I said I
have some Mastery over earlier I said I would distinguish between unskilled
would distinguish between unskilled skilled Mastery and virtuosity and I'll
skilled Mastery and virtuosity and I'll do that now unskilled of course means
do that now unskilled of course means that we have limited understanding let
that we have limited understanding let alone um ability to use information
alone um ability to use information skilled typically means we know and can
skilled typically means we know and can recognize and use information in basic
recognize and use information in basic ways or even Advanced ways Mastery
ways or even Advanced ways Mastery typically means that we have you know
typically means that we have you know close to the full depth of knowledge in
close to the full depth of knowledge in a given area and that we can use it
a given area and that we can use it pretty flexibly and virtuosity at least
pretty flexibly and virtuosity at least my definition of virtuosity is where we
my definition of virtuosity is where we actually have such Mastery of material
actually have such Mastery of material that we can use it in ways that we still
that we can use it in ways that we still don't even know how we can use meaning
don't even know how we can use meaning that we can inject elements or we even
that we can inject elements or we even invite elements of uncertainty and kind
invite elements of uncertainty and kind of spontaneity into the use of that
of spontaneity into the use of that material here I'm thinking of great
material here I'm thinking of great musicians I'm thinking of great athletes
musicians I'm thinking of great athletes where they know all the plays they know
where they know all the plays they know all the moves it's all scripted into
all the moves it's all scripted into their nervous system and they can deploy
their nervous system and they can deploy those at any time so they have real
those at any time so they have real Mastery but in order to display their
Mastery but in order to display their incredible abilities their virtuosity
incredible abilities their virtuosity they actively invite in The X Factor the
they actively invite in The X Factor the uncertainty such that sometimes they
uncertainty such that sometimes they find themselves playing their instrument
find themselves playing their instrument or singing or performing athletically or
or singing or performing athletically or mathematically or what have you in way
mathematically or what have you in way that even surprise them and that of
that even surprise them and that of course is a lot to expect of ourselves I
course is a lot to expect of ourselves I think most of us would be uh content to
think most of us would be uh content to have skill and Mastery of the things
have skill and Mastery of the things that we care about and you know should
that we care about and you know should we achieve virtuosity then wonderful but
we achieve virtuosity then wonderful but one of the main points of today's
one of the main points of today's discussion was to arm you with an
discussion was to arm you with an understanding of neuroplasticity in the
understanding of neuroplasticity in the context of studying and learning to
context of studying and learning to really understand that so much of
really understand that so much of learning stably and consolidating
learning stably and consolidating information over time is to offset the
information over time is to offset the forgetting process
forgetting process and that testing is not just a tool for
and that testing is not just a tool for evaluating our knowledge but rather a
evaluating our knowledge but rather a tool for evaluating and reinforcing and
tool for evaluating and reinforcing and building our knowledge put differently
building our knowledge put differently that testing is an excellent tool if not
that testing is an excellent tool if not the best tool for studying and I think
the best tool for studying and I think that's an important reframe that others
that's an important reframe that others have brought about and that I really
have brought about and that I really want to highlight underline and bold
want to highlight underline and bold face during today's discussion it's one
face during today's discussion it's one that I certainly wish I had applied more
that I certainly wish I had applied more in my educational trajectory and it's
in my educational trajectory and it's one that I plan to deploy further in my
one that I plan to deploy further in my seeking out of new knowledge in terms of
seeking out of new knowledge in terms of the podcast and Neuroscience but in
the podcast and Neuroscience but in other areas of my life as well because
other areas of my life as well because from the existing literature and
from the existing literature and hopefully from the way it was presented
hopefully from the way it was presented to you today you probably realize that
to you today you probably realize that it is near infinite if not
it is near infinite if not infinite that we can apply testing as a
infinite that we can apply testing as a tool for studying self- testing testing
tool for studying self- testing testing of others using testing as a way to
of others using testing as a way to really probe what we know and don't know
really probe what we know and don't know and to really offset that forgetting
and to really offset that forgetting process and in that sense it is is
process and in that sense it is is really nicely aligned with what we know
really nicely aligned with what we know about
about neuroplasticity and it's also something
neuroplasticity and it's also something that we can use freely and that you can
that we can use freely and that you can use covertly that you can apply in your
use covertly that you can apply in your own seeking out of knowledge and new
own seeking out of knowledge and new skills of all kinds classroom or
skills of all kinds classroom or otherwise if you're learning from and or
otherwise if you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast please subscribe
enjoying this podcast please subscribe to our YouTube channel that's a terrific
to our YouTube channel that's a terrific zeroc cost way to support us another
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throughout today's episode that's the best way to support this podcast if you
best way to support this podcast if you have questions for me or comments about
have questions for me or comments about the podcast or guests or topics that
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Lab podcast please put those in the comments section on YouTube I do read
comments section on YouTube I do read all the comments for those of you that
all the comments for those of you that haven't heard I have a new book coming
haven't heard I have a new book coming out it's my very first book it's
out it's my very first book it's entitled protocols an operating manual
entitled protocols an operating manual for the human body this is a book that
for the human body this is a book that I've been working on for more than 5
I've been working on for more than 5 years and that's based on more than 30
years and that's based on more than 30 years of research and experience and it
years of research and experience and it covers protocols for everything from
covers protocols for everything from sleep to exercise to Stress Control
sleep to exercise to Stress Control protocols related to focus and
protocols related to focus and motivation and of course I provide the
motivation and of course I provide the scientific substantiation for the
scientific substantiation for the protocols that are included the book is
protocols that are included the book is now available by pre-sale at protocols
now available by pre-sale at protocols book.com there you can find links to
book.com there you can find links to various vendors you can pick the one
various vendors you can pick the one that you like best again the book is
that you like best again the book is called protocols an operating manual for
called protocols an operating manual for the human body if you're not already
the human body if you're not already following me on on social media I'm
following me on on social media I'm hubman lab on all social media platforms
hubman lab on all social media platforms so that's Instagram X formerly known as
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Twitter threads Facebook and Linkedin and on all those platforms I cover
and on all those platforms I cover science and science related tools some
science and science related tools some of which overlaps with the content of
of which overlaps with the content of the hubman Lab podcast but much of which
the hubman Lab podcast but much of which is distinct from the content on the
is distinct from the content on the huberman Lab podcast again that's hubman
huberman Lab podcast again that's hubman lab on all social media channels if you
lab on all social media channels if you haven't already subscribed to our neural
network newsletter our neural network newsletter is a zeroc cost monthly
newsletter is a zeroc cost monthly newsletter that has protocols which are
newsletter that has protocols which are one to three page PDFs that describe
one to three page PDFs that describe things like optimizing your sleep how to
things like optimizing your sleep how to optimize your dopamine deliberate cold
optimize your dopamine deliberate cold exposure we have a foundational Fitness
exposure we have a foundational Fitness protocol that describes resistance
protocol that describes resistance training sets and Reps and all of that
training sets and Reps and all of that as well as cardiovascular training
as well as cardiovascular training that's supported by the scientific
that's supported by the scientific research and we have protocols related
research and we have protocols related to neuroplasticity and learning again
to neuroplasticity and learning again you can find all that at completely zero
you can find all that at completely zero cost by going to huberman lab.com go to
cost by going to huberman lab.com go to the menu tab in the right corner scroll
the menu tab in the right corner scroll down to newsletter you put in your email
down to newsletter you put in your email and we do not share your email with
and we do not share your email with anybody body thank you once again for
anybody body thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion all
joining me for today's discussion all about how to study and learn and last
about how to study and learn and last but certainly not least thank you for
but certainly not least thank you for your interest in science
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