0:02 50% of people under the age of 30s still
0:05 live with their parents. 70% of people
0:06 in their 20s are going through something
0:08 called a quarter life crisis.
0:10 >> He's a Harvard trained psychiatrist
0:12 >> who specializes in modern mental health.
0:14 Meet Dr. K, the man behind Healthy Gamer
0:16 >> and the voice helping millions navigate
0:17 the digital world.
0:19 >> What does someone do with the feeling of
0:21 feeling being left behind?
0:24 >> People who feel like they're not enough.
0:26 That feeling comes from trying to make
0:29 other people happy and failing. Humans
0:31 need to grow. We need to pursue
0:32 something. We need to move in a certain
0:34 direction to stay alive. True or false?
0:37 >> Chasing growth is not the same as growing.
0:38 growing.
0:40 >> A lot of people get focused on doing,
0:42 but they don't pay attention to what's happening.
0:44 happening.
0:46 >> What does it even mean to be a man right now?
0:46 now?
0:48 >> A lot of masculinity right now is men
0:51 trying to become as manly as possible in
0:52 the alpha sense. And that doesn't
0:54 translate over into happiness. And that
0:57 doesn't work. When you look at people
0:58 who are growing up right now, people in
1:00 their 20s and 30s, why is it that
1:03 they're confused, lonely, hurt, when
1:05 externally everything seems to look okay,
1:08 okay,
1:09 >> the number one health and wellness podcast,
1:10 podcast,
1:11 >> J Shetty.
1:12 >> J Shetty,
1:16 >> the one, the only J Shetty.
1:18 When you look at people who are growing
1:19 up right now, when you look at people in
1:22 their 20s and 30s, why is it that
1:25 they're secretly
1:28 confused, lonely, hurt when externally
1:30 everything seems to look okay? So, a lot
1:32 of the people that I work with, I think
1:33 externally things don't look okay. I
1:35 think I think that was more true a few
1:38 years ago. I think now we're starting to
1:40 become more and more aware that things
1:42 are even externally not okay. But I'm
1:44 totally with you. I think um you know I
1:47 was just uh reading a paper about um
1:49 this guy named Eric Ericson who sort of
1:51 talks about the stages that we go
1:53 through in life. He was a psychologist
1:55 or psychiatrist and and so he said that
1:56 a lot of people are going through
1:59 something called a noiseless crisis. So
2:00 >> explain that to me. Yeah.
2:03 >> A lot of people that you look at are
2:05 going through a crisis that you will
2:07 never see. So we're sort of familiar
2:10 with this idea of a midlife crisis. This
2:13 is when men like me and you um you know,
2:16 we maybe hit our 40s, maybe hit our 50s,
2:18 we're we're maybe paying a mortgage, we
2:20 we don't get to do what we want, we'll
2:22 maybe dye our hair, buy a convertible,
2:24 and start driving really fast.
2:26 >> But what I think is is happening way
2:28 more, and there was an interesting study
2:31 on LinkedIn that found that 70% of
2:33 people um in their 20s are going through
2:35 something called a quarter life crisis.
2:37 So this is a time when you're sort of
2:39 like you sort of took all the right
2:42 steps, you did what you should do, but
2:44 you wake up one day and you realize this
2:46 is not the life that I want. So I think
2:48 we're seeing a ton of that. And I think
2:50 that one of the main reasons for that is
2:52 that the answers that the generation
2:56 before before gave us used to work. So
2:57 like when I was growing up, you know, my
2:59 parents were like super like look, you
3:01 have to be a doctor and and then this
3:03 sort of idea of going to college,
3:05 getting educated, you'll get a good job
3:06 and then you'll be able to buy a house
3:09 and happily ever after kind of stuff.
3:10 But I think that formula doesn't work
3:13 anymore. I think our institutions have
3:15 started to fail us. Not in a negative
3:17 way, but I think if you look at the way
3:19 that psychiatry develops, you know,
3:21 we'll do research for 20 or 30 years
3:23 before we figure something out. And
3:26 there's still studies being published on
3:29 Facebook today. And I don't mean meta, I
3:31 mean Facebook. So this was a trial that
3:32 started like eight years ago that
3:34 they're like publishing the results now.
3:37 So the rate of change in the world is
3:39 rapidly increasing and we don't really
3:41 know how to deal with it and young
3:43 people are getting absolutely crushed.
3:44 >> And is that affecting are you saying
3:47 it's affecting our identity? Like you
3:50 said before there was almost a path that
3:51 was laid out. Y
3:53 >> and so you had these milestones
3:55 effectively. I go to college, I
3:56 graduate, I'll get married at a certain
3:58 age, I'll buy a house at a certain age,
3:59 I'll retire at a certain age. There were
4:01 these milestones that were laid out for
4:04 you and now whether you go to college or
4:06 not, there's basically no milestones
4:08 because the goals have changed, the
4:09 targets have changed.
4:11 >> Yeah. So, so I don't even know if I
4:12 think the targets have changed, but I
4:14 think the bigger problem is the targets
4:16 aren't meetable anymore. So, just as a
4:18 simple example, when I went to college,
4:23 it cost about $5,000 a semester, $6,000,
4:25 I think. So, you know, college cost, I
4:26 mean, it took me 5 and a half years to
4:28 graduate. Um, so, so it cost me
4:30 somewhere around $30,000 to get an
4:31 undergraduate degree. I mean, that's the
4:35 cost of one year now, right? So, costs
4:37 are increasing a lot. If you look at
4:38 this idea of like, you know, getting
4:40 married by a certain age, and I have so
4:42 many patients who really struggle with
4:43 this because they feel like they're
4:46 late. They're like 50% of people under
4:47 the age of 30 still live with their
4:49 parents. So if you sort of think about
4:51 how does that cascade
4:51 >> say that again
4:53 >> 50% of people under the age of 30 who
4:55 are adults still live with their parents.
4:56 parents.
4:57 >> Wow. I didn't know that.
4:58 >> Right. So people in the United States in
4:58 the US
5:01 >> that feels like India
5:03 but and it's an economic thing because
5:04 it used to be that you can like I mean
5:05 think about you know we're here in New
5:07 York like rents are crazy. Like you can
5:10 pay like $3,000 for like a closet you
5:12 know. So, so now it's just not people
5:14 are finishing college, they have a ton
5:16 of debt, there's inflation, people are
5:18 not able to get jobs. And then if you
5:20 think about the cascading effect, if I
5:23 want a date, right, and I'm like a
5:26 27year-old dude and then like if the
5:27 date goes well, it's like, do you want
5:29 to come back to my place? And then we go
5:32 back to my place and like my ba is
5:34 there, you know, and then it's kind of
5:36 like you can't really, you know, do that.
5:37 that.
5:39 >> So, we're seeing sort of this epidemic
5:41 of loneliness. We're seeing this like
5:43 dating and mating crisis amongst like
5:45 men and and women and a lot of young men
5:47 are struggling. A lot of young women are
5:49 struggling too. And so like I think the
5:51 world that we lived in has changed and
5:54 we need new answers. We need new paths
5:56 to navigate this world.
5:58 >> Yeah. I love what you said about how the
6:00 targets are just unmeable. >> Yeah.
6:01 >> Yeah.
6:03 >> Because that's why people feel behind.
6:05 It's why they feel late. It's why they
6:08 feel they'll never get there. I now
6:09 we're all using chat GPT but a couple of
6:11 years ago when I was writing my second
6:13 book I started it off by talking about
6:16 how if you type in on Google the first
6:19 thing when you type in will I ever which
6:21 is obviously a question about your
6:23 future and possibility the first thing
6:27 that comes up is will I ever find love? >> Wow.
6:27 >> Wow.
6:29 >> And the second thing that comes up is
6:31 will I ever be enough? >> Wow.
6:31 >> Wow.
6:33 >> Like those are the top two questions.
6:35 >> Wow. And when you look at that and you
6:37 think, wow, like love and self-worth,
6:39 like they are right up there as the top
6:41 two most Googled things at that time.
6:43 Now on chat GPT, I'm sure we'll get so
6:45 much more data. But I love what you said
6:48 about unmet needs. What does someone do
6:51 with the feeling of feeling late, of
6:54 feeling behind, of feeling being left
6:57 behind. So this is why I was excited to
7:00 come here today because you didn't ask
7:02 me why. you asked, "What does someone
7:04 do?" Right? And I think that's what sort
7:06 of exemplifies what I appreciate about
7:09 you is that you're always focused on
7:11 what to do, not necessarily why things
7:14 happen. So I I think um you know, if you
7:17 have that feeling, there are a couple of
7:18 important things to do. The first is
7:21 that that feeling has to do with your
7:23 sense of identity. So where do you get
7:25 these expectations? Who do you think you
7:28 are? Um and I don't mean that sounds so
7:29 bad, but like really who do you think
7:31 you are? How do you understand who you
7:33 are? And this is what we see in people
7:34 who have a quarter life crisis is that
7:37 they are too busy with identification
7:39 that they don't understand identity.
7:40 Now, I know that's kind of confusing,
7:42 but if we think about identification,
7:44 what does that mean? That means that I'm
7:46 going to look outside of me and I'm
7:47 going to find a group of people and I'm
7:50 going to say my identity is like I'm one
7:51 of these people now,
7:55 >> right? Like I I'm a I'm a goth kid or
7:58 I'm super into football or I'm a gamer,
8:00 right? or I'm I'm an incel. Like there
8:01 are all kinds of ways that we can
8:02 identify. We can identify with a
8:04 political party, but identification and
8:06 identity are two different things. And I
8:08 think that when people feel like they
8:11 are behind, they have this expectation.
8:13 They're looking outside and they're
8:16 saying this is what I should be, but
8:19 their information about who they are
8:21 comes from what they see outside of them.
8:22 them.
8:23 >> And the most important thing that you
8:24 can do, I know it sounds kind of
8:27 generic, is to look within. And I mean
8:28 really think about, you know, how do I
8:30 feel about myself? What do I want in
8:34 life? I often times find that people who
8:37 feel like they're not enough, that
8:39 feeling comes from trying to make other
8:42 people happy and failing, right? So if
8:44 my parents want me to be a doctor and I
8:45 don't go to medical school, which is
8:47 what happened in my case, you know, then
8:50 you've let them down. And we get so much
8:53 our our core sense of identity, the way
8:54 we're socialized usually comes from
8:57 people outside of us. So there there's a
8:58 lot of research on things like
9:00 attachment theory where a child knows
9:05 what they feel based on reflection from
9:06 people around them. And my favorite
9:08 example of this is like, you know, when
9:10 I remember when I had a 2-year-old
9:11 daughter and she was like running around
9:13 and then she would fall
9:15 >> and then in a moment what she would do
9:18 is look around and if everyone else is
9:20 like, "Oh my god, are you okay?" she'd
9:22 start crying. But if everyone is
9:23 laughing, she'd get up and start
9:26 laughing too. So we learn so much about
9:28 ourselves from the people around us. I
9:30 think the problem is that the
9:32 expectations that everyone places on us
9:35 are no longer meetable in the same way.
9:37 >> So what you really need to do is ask
9:39 yourself, you know, who am I living for?
9:41 What do I want? What are the
9:43 expectations that I've internalized that
9:45 that form my value?
9:47 >> And then I I also tend to use a lot of
9:50 meditation practices. So I really like
9:52 for people who have identity problems,
9:53 people have narcissism or low
9:55 self-esteem, I'll do a certain kind of
9:57 meditation practice called shunya which
10:00 is shunya means void or nothingness. And
10:02 so they sort of you cultivate this
10:06 experience of like complete emptiness.
10:08 And when you cultivate that experience
10:10 of emptiness, there's a part of your
10:12 brain called the default mode network.
10:14 And this is the part of your brain that
10:17 thinks about you. So like you know your
10:18 brain thinks about all kinds of things.
10:20 I'm paying attention to you. But there
10:22 sometimes when we reflect on ourselves,
10:24 what do I think of myself? The really
10:25 interesting thing is that the default
10:26 mode network, the self-reflective
10:29 capability is hyperactive. When you're
10:32 very depressed, so when people are super
10:33 depressed, what are they thinking about?
10:35 A lot of people think that they're
10:36 thinking about how the world is falling
10:37 apart. They're really thinking about
10:40 themselves. I'm a loser. I'm pathetic. I
10:42 I've had patients who will come in and
10:43 say, you know, my family would be better
10:45 off without me. Like, I'm hurting my
10:47 kids by existing, so I'm going to kill
10:50 myself. like you you know they think so
10:51 negatively and you can't get them to
10:54 stop and so the interesting thing is as
10:57 we treat depression the default mode
11:00 network deactivates as you do
11:02 meditations and I think shunya is a
11:04 specific meditation that I suspect
11:06 activates this pretty quickly you stop
11:08 thinking about yourself and when you
11:10 stop sort of hyperfocusing
11:12 then it's this is I know it's kind of
11:14 paradoxical but when we think about
11:16 ourselves what we're really doing is
11:18 we're internalizing expectations Then
11:19 you start getting data from within.
11:21 That's not the same as thinking about
11:22 yourself. It is actually paying
11:25 attention to yourself. And then you
11:27 start to get these internal signals and
11:29 you get some amount of quietness, some
11:30 amount of stillness, some amount of
11:32 groundedness. And then people start to
11:33 move in the right direction. You start
11:34 to feel better.
11:36 >> Talk to me about that difference between
11:38 paying attention to yourself and
11:40 thinking about yourself. What are the
11:42 different thoughts and emotions and
11:43 feelings that are connected to each?
11:46 >> Ah, beautiful. So thoughts, emotions,
11:48 and feelings are all thinking about yourself.
11:48 yourself. >> Mhm.
11:49 >> Mhm.
11:52 >> When I think about myself, I'm literally
11:54 having thoughts. All look is good. All
11:56 look is bad, all look is beautiful, all
11:58 look is ugly. That's all thinking about yourself.
11:59 yourself.
12:01 Getting information from within is not
12:03 thinking about right. So if I think
12:06 about something, I am over here and the
12:09 thing is over there. So the object of
12:11 what I am thinking about happens to be
12:13 me, but the thinking is happening over
12:15 here. I am using my mind to think about
12:17 myself. So it's kind of like if you look
12:19 at your reflection in a mirror, you
12:22 don't see yourself. You are seeing a
12:23 reflection of yourself. What you're
12:26 really seeing is a mirror, right?
12:29 >> So what I think people and people get
12:30 stuck in this, right? Because they're
12:32 thinking about themselves a lot.
12:33 Instead, what they need to do is pay
12:34 attention to themselves. Now, paying
12:38 attention means observing, not thinking,
12:40 >> just watch.
12:41 >> And something really interesting
12:44 happens. So I I work with some patients
12:45 who have schizophrenia and they become psychotic
12:47 psychotic
12:49 >> and and it's really interesting. So when
12:50 I was back at Harvard, I was trying to
12:53 develop meditation protocols for
12:55 particular mental illnesses. So if you
12:57 suffer from depression um you know what
12:59 do you what kind of meditation do you do
13:01 and anxiety and stuff and I I turn that
13:03 all into a guide. Um but when I have
13:05 patients with psychosis
13:07 what I would try to so these are people
13:08 who are having hallucinations and
13:10 delusions and what I would really focus
13:12 on with them is they would get so caught
13:15 up in it right and in psychiatry we try
13:16 to make the hallucinations go away
13:19 that's a good treatment you know that
13:21 can be very good treatment but the other
13:23 thing that I would add to medications
13:26 and things like that is let's learn how
13:28 to just watch it without getting pulled
13:31 into it if they're there like so what
13:32 right can you just continue to focus on
13:34 this. Can you shift your attention away
13:38 from it? So, simply observing gives us
13:40 distance. So, there are other patients
13:42 that I have that will get so caught up
13:44 in something and and maybe you know your
13:45 listeners have situations where like
13:47 someone gets dumped and then your friend
13:48 comes to you and they're like, "Oh my
13:50 god, like my life is over, my life is
13:52 over." No, like take a step back like
13:54 get some perspective. So, as we observe
13:58 things, the bite comes out of it. We
13:59 start to gain a little bit of distance
14:03 from it. And you so you can just witness
14:05 okay I'm feeling anxious today right so
14:08 this is very different if I say my life
14:10 is falling apart versus saying there's a
14:13 part of me that feels like my life is
14:15 falling apart that doesn't make it true
14:17 thoughts aren't facts
14:19 >> so that observation is a little bit
14:21 different a skill uses a different part
14:23 of the brain and as people start doing
14:24 that they get some distance they get
14:26 some perspective and the really
14:28 interesting thing is when that part of
14:29 the brain activates it's like your
14:31 anterior singulate cortex, the part of
14:34 your brain that experiences emotion,
14:35 like your amygdala, this is like your
14:37 threat center, your survival center,
14:39 that actually starts to calm down. So
14:40 people will literally as you turn this
14:42 part of the brain on, this other part of
14:44 the brain will naturally turn off. Wow.
14:47 Yeah. It's almost like thinking has an
14:51 element of you attaching your story and
14:54 prediction and projection onto yourself
14:57 and observing is just watching the
14:58 story. It's almost like there's not even
15:00 a story actually. You're just watching.
15:01 You're just seeing.
15:03 >> It's it's a it's a beautiful way to put it.
15:04 it. >> Yeah.
15:04 >> Yeah.
15:06 >> Right. So, so you're right that your
15:09 mind attaches a lot of stuff, right? And
15:10 and this is why I'm I'm curious about
15:12 your background, but you know, in in in
15:13 Sanskrit and
15:15 >> in the Eastern spiritual traditions, we
15:17 have this concept of detachment or
15:18 >> vagya. Mhm.
15:20 >> And what what we sort of notice is if
15:22 you really think about what the source
15:25 of your suffering is, it's there can be
15:28 pain, but usually what really messes
15:31 people up are the implications of what happens.
15:32 happens.
15:35 >> Right? Oh, if like if this person says
15:37 they're if this person doesn't return my
15:39 text within the hour,
15:41 >> what does that mean? That means they
15:43 don't like me, that means they think
15:45 they're better than me, that means
15:47 they're more important people. We attach
15:48 all kinds of things and it happens
15:49 really rapidly. It happens
15:51 subconsciously. That's really where our
15:52 suffering comes from.
15:54 >> Yeah. Well said. Yeah. The Buddha called
15:55 it the second arrow. >> Mhm.
15:55 >> Mhm.
15:57 >> Like the first arrow it hurts. It's
15:59 things. And then the second arrow is the
16:01 meaning, the story, the implication that
16:04 you have not even checked, you've not
16:05 fact checked, you've not observed, and
16:06 there it is.
16:08 >> Yeah. So it's I'm I'm glad you brought
16:10 up that example because I was reading
16:12 that text recently. I didn't realize I
16:13 think so we we talk about the second
16:15 arrow a lot in psychiatry which is this
16:18 concept that you know life sends you the
16:19 first arrow you can't control whether
16:22 you get dumped or not but it is the
16:24 implication that you attach right so if
16:26 I get dumped that's a fact that's
16:27 there's some amount of pain some amount
16:29 of grief but then you start to tell
16:30 yourself I'm a loser
16:31 >> I'm not good enough
16:33 >> I'm not good enough I'll I'll always be
16:35 alone those kinds of thoughts are what
16:37 you add to the equation
16:39 >> the really fascinating thing about how
16:41 to stop doing that so this is I blown
16:43 away. I I I recently read I realized I'd
16:44 never like actually looked at the
16:46 teachings of the Buddha.
16:48 >> What I had done is everyone talks about
16:50 the teachings of the Buddha, right? But
16:52 it's like other people talking about the Buddha
16:52 Buddha
16:53 >> commentaries. Yeah.
16:55 >> So what I didn't realize is the Buddha
16:57 actually says the second arrow. So we in
16:58 psychiatry we talk about this is how you
17:00 avoid pain and negative emotions. The
17:02 Buddha says that the problem with the
17:03 second arrow is also your positive emotions.
17:04 emotions.
17:07 >> He says you should stop attaching that
17:09 to your positive emotions as well.
17:11 >> Yes. So when something good happens to
17:13 your life, we get excited about it. He
17:14 says, "Don't do that."
17:15 >> So if you get a promotion, that means
17:17 I'm going to do this and that means I'm
17:18 going to do this and that means I'm
17:20 going to do this. Stop doing all that.
17:22 Promotion is that's all it is. It has no implications.
17:23 implications.
17:25 >> And the really fascinating thing is this
17:27 is why it's so hard for people. Everyone
17:29 wants the associations of the good stuff,
17:30 stuff,
17:31 >> but nobody wants to give up the
17:33 associations of the bad stuff. That's
17:34 not how the brain works. If you want to
17:37 decouple those two things, take
17:39 something in your life that is good and
17:42 look at why you're excited about it and
17:44 then let go of that excitement.
17:46 >> It's it it happened. That's it. Observe
17:48 it. It's in the past. It doesn't mean
17:50 anything about your future. And if you
17:52 train yourself on both sides of those
17:55 coins, that coin, then your mastery will
17:56 increase way more quickly.
17:59 >> Yeah, absolutely. It's as as you know as
18:02 well it's the uh definition of
18:05 equinimity in the Gita of that idea that
18:07 one's not disturbed by happiness or
18:09 distress and that's really interesting
18:10 use of words. It's like how could you
18:12 ever be disturbed by happiness? But
18:14 that's how you are because you created
18:16 so much additional meaning which now
18:18 when it didn't happen the promotion
18:20 didn't even make you happy anymore
18:22 because you believe the promotion was
18:24 your right towards
18:26 >> some bigger greater thing and now you
18:28 can't even experience the joy of that moment.
18:29 moment.
18:30 >> Absolutely. And that's what I see. Yeah,
18:32 you know, I I have kind of like a couple
18:33 different buckets of patients. And the
18:35 interesting thing is I have people who
18:37 are like 29 years old living at home,
18:39 you know, in their mom's basement
18:40 playing video games and watching
18:42 pornography all day. And then I also
18:44 have like executives and CEOs and and
18:46 startup founders and and they do exactly
18:49 that. They attach a lot of things to
18:51 their happiness. So they end up moving
18:53 the goalposts. One promotion isn't
18:55 enough. Now I need another one. Now I
18:57 need another one. Now I need another
18:58 one. And it's beautiful the you know the
19:00 quote from the Gita that you said
19:02 because I think what does it mean to be
19:04 disturbed by happiness? Literally the
19:06 way that I I try to work with these
19:08 people is a disturbance is anything that
19:11 creates a change in your mind.
19:14 >> So your natural state is to be still.
19:17 Think about when you watch a sunset you
19:18 know or you're just like completely
19:20 peaceful like you're just there with
19:22 yourself. And even when you get a
19:24 promotion, that creates a disturbance.
19:26 And the moment that you create a
19:28 disturbance, you're no longer still.
19:30 You're no longer at peace. And you may
19:32 be signing yourself up for future
19:34 disappointment. Research shows that most
19:37 women still want to date a man who makes
19:42 more money than they do. But 60 plus% of
19:44 people who go to college are now women.
19:46 So what's happened is men are in this
19:48 really tough spot where the expectations
19:51 from men have not changed
19:53 but society has changed so we can't meet
19:56 those expectations anymore. So this is
19:57 what a lot of people don't realize. They
19:59 think that pornography addiction is
20:00 about sexuality. They think it's about
20:02 being horny. They think it's about lust.
20:05 It's not lust. One of the top variables for
20:07 for
20:10 addiction to pornography is lack of
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21:01 is there. What I'm really intrigued by
21:03 is how do you kind of factor that
21:06 thought in with growth? Because it's
21:09 almost like humans need to grow. We need
21:12 to pursue something. We need to move in
21:13 a certain direction to stay alive. True
21:15 or false?
21:17 >> I think that's the most common way, >> right?
21:18 >> right?
21:20 >> So, what's what's a healthier way or
21:22 what would be the better way?
21:24 >> Uh healthier or better is is a tricky language.
21:25 language.
21:26 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, what's
21:29 >> So, um I I think that So, this is really
21:31 confus. Glad you asked this because
21:34 >> I I I think
21:37 >> chasing growth is not the same as growing.
21:38 growing. >> Mhm.
21:39 >> Mhm.
21:42 >> A lot of people get focused on doing
21:43 >> but they don't pay attention to what's
21:46 happening. So, I see this all the time
21:48 in patients with addiction where like,
21:49 you know, you're they're doing something
21:51 like a substance or pornography or
21:52 something like that, but they're not
21:55 really paying attention to how does
21:57 pornography or the substance rewire my brain
21:58 brain
22:01 >> if I crush up opiates and snort them
22:04 right now? What am I signing myself up
22:07 for tomorrow? What what is the human I
22:09 am creating? What is the life I will
22:13 inherit if I take this action today?
22:15 And the interesting thing there is once
22:17 you start paying attention to that, it's
22:19 not really about growing. It's not about
22:21 getting anywhere. It's just what do I
22:22 want to inherit tomorrow? That's a great
22:24 way to I I think to think about it,
22:26 right? Think like actually super short
22:29 term. So I think wanting growth,
22:31 ambition, goals,
22:34 these are wonderful motivators,
22:36 but they won't bring you happiness,
22:38 >> right? So you can get satisfaction of
22:41 the ego through achievement. But then
22:43 you've done something really sneaky,
22:46 which is that you've made the lever of
22:48 satisfaction in your life gratification
22:50 of the ego. So I want to chase this. I
22:52 want to get promoted. But that's really
22:54 tricky. Like sure, you can get promoted
22:56 and you can feel really good, but now
22:59 you are training your brain
23:02 to feel good when you get something.
23:05 >> Mhm. And so this is something that no
23:07 amount of promotions will ever be enough.
23:08 enough.
23:11 >> It's less about what's happening and who
23:12 you're becoming and what you're
23:13 inheriting and more about what you're
23:16 doing. And that's why we get addicted to doing.
23:17 doing.
23:19 >> Yeah. Absolutely. So we get addicted to
23:21 doing because we want our internal state
23:22 to change. >> Yeah.
23:22 >> Yeah.
23:24 >> Right. So if I'm like
23:26 >> if I'm not happy, if I do something
23:27 about it,
23:29 >> then my circumstances will change. If I
23:31 get her flowers one more time, she'll
23:33 say yes when I ask her out on a date.
23:35 >> But what we're really doing is we're
23:37 putting the control of our life. We're
23:40 putting our internal
23:43 happiness or contentment based on how
23:44 the world responds to me. >> Mhm.
23:45 >> Mhm.
23:46 >> So I'm not saying that you shouldn't
23:48 act, which a lot of people will say like
23:50 should you not act, which actually if
23:53 you do this right will be where you end
23:54 up. And that's what happened to the
23:56 Buddha, right? So he said like I'm going
23:58 to walk this spiritual path. walked away
24:01 from his wife, walked away from his son.
24:02 And so I think that there is a certain
24:06 part of this path that is not
24:08 conducive to life. >> Mhm.
24:08 >> Mhm.
24:11 >> That you will start to change so much.
24:14 You will stop start to stop caring so
24:16 much about the things that everyone
24:17 around you cares that that it can become
24:18 really difficult.
24:19 >> Yeah. And that's what I was going to say
24:21 that even if we go back to the simple
24:24 idea at the beginning where you said if
24:26 you know who you are, you can start to
24:28 choose your own values almost your own
24:31 metrics, your own milestones that aren't
24:33 based on your parents, society, the
24:35 things around you. But the challenge
24:39 with that is you're fighting against
24:44 decades and decades of wiring
24:46 >> that is encouraging you to move at these
24:48 milestones, to move at this pace, to be
24:49 married by this age, to have kids by
24:52 this age. And so it's such a struggle
24:54 sometimes it can feel because you're
24:56 like wait a minute I'm trying to follow
24:59 my whatever it is. But over here there's
25:02 this chart that feels like it's ranking
25:04 me constantly that doesn't just
25:08 disappear. How do we hold on to our values
25:09 values
25:12 and a new vision in a world that has a
25:14 very clear script you should follow?
25:17 >> So it's a great question. Um, I guess
25:18 this is where like I'd like to just
25:21 share my experience, which is really weird.
25:23 weird.
25:26 So, I think that I got to where I am by
25:29 making a series of terrible decisions
25:31 and I strongly encourage everybody else
25:34 to consider doing the same. So, I spent
25:36 7 years studying to become a monk and
25:38 then decided to walk away from that.
25:39 Right? So, this is like abandoning this
25:41 path that I spent so much time putting
25:43 into. decided that I fell in love and
25:46 the whole met my wife and was not super
25:48 interested in brahmacharia
25:51 um celibacy and and so you know did that
25:53 and then ended up going to medical
25:55 school towards the end of medical school
25:57 I was going to do holistic oncology and
26:00 and do like evidence-based complimentary
26:01 alternative medicine for cancer
26:02 treatment my dad was a cancer doctor so
26:04 I was like I learned all this stuff in
26:05 India and I was like let's cure cancer
26:08 with like herbs and yoga and meditation
26:10 and chemotherapy and then towards the
26:12 end of it I fell in love with psychiatry
26:14 And even my family was like actually
26:16 super against it. They're like, "This is
26:18 crazy." Like my mom who's a doctor was
26:19 like, "You're going to go crazy if you
26:21 spend time with crazy people all the
26:23 time." Right? Why don't you like be a
26:25 real doctor? Like do cardiology. I look,
26:28 you know, do my wife was watching Grey's
26:29 Anatomy. She wanted me to be a
26:33 neurosurgeon. I was like, "Same organ,
26:35 but maybe in a different way." And so I
26:37 sort of walked away. I done a bunch of
26:38 research and and things like that. And
26:40 so I sort of walked away from that path
26:42 and like at the 11th hour sort of tried
26:44 to apply for psychiatry, ended up
26:46 getting lucky. And then I I wound up at
26:47 Harvard and I was like faculty at
26:49 Harvard Medical School and was like, you
26:50 know, working on these meditation
26:52 protocols and stuff like that. And then
26:55 I kind of started streaming one day
26:57 talking to like broke gamers on the
26:59 internet cuz I realized like no one's
27:01 really helping them. And so like walked
27:05 away from like that academic career. And
27:06 then the weird thing is like that sort
27:10 of picked up in a weird way. So I I
27:11 think that what a lot of people don't
27:14 realize is that so here I am you're kind
27:16 of saying okay so how do I the world
27:18 wants me to be this this is what I want
27:20 to be and there's a fundamental mismatch
27:21 even if I'm going to do this I'm going
27:24 to piss off the world and what I've seen
27:26 not only in myself but also my patients
27:28 who I encourage this path for. I was
27:32 really worried because I realized that
27:35 about 40% of my patients within 18
27:36 months of coming to see me will make a
27:37 career change. >> Wow.
27:38 >> Wow.
27:40 >> And I was like worried that I'm biasing
27:42 them in some way. Like am I like shaping
27:43 them? But I think once you start to
27:45 realize, okay, this is the direction
27:46 that I want to move. Once you cast some
27:49 of those things off and you start moving
27:52 in your direction, you get so much
27:55 positive internal feedback. Like, yeah,
27:57 people around you are upset, but you are grounded.
27:59 grounded.
28:00 >> And if you really think about when you
28:03 feel the most out of control in life,
28:05 it's because you let the opinions of
28:08 other people disturb this. But as long
28:11 as you were secure in what you're doing,
28:12 if you really lean into that and there's
28:14 so much positive feedback, like it the
28:16 first time I started streaming on Twitch
28:17 and you know, like there were five
28:19 people there, it felt so good to talk to
28:21 them. It just felt right. It felt right
28:24 in here. And the biggest thing getting
28:26 in the way of that in today's society is
28:28 we use technology to dull what's going
28:29 on in here.
28:32 >> I'm feeling anxious. Like I'm on the
28:33 subway. I'm bored. I don't like feeling
28:36 bored. Let me pull out my phone. I'm
28:37 feeling anxious. Let me pull out my
28:40 phone. Oh my god, my boss just told me
28:42 like, uh, let me pull out my phone. So,
28:44 we do so many things with technology
28:46 that dull our sense of self. We don't
28:49 like to be with ourselves anymore. I saw
28:52 a super scary study. People are spending
28:53 so much time on the toilet with their
28:55 phone, it's increasing the risk of
28:57 hemorrhoids by about 65%.
28:58 >> Oh gosh.
28:59 >> And they're not even pushing. They're
29:01 just sitting there. And if you stay in
29:04 that position in your body, it puts
29:06 pressure on the blood vessels. And like
29:08 like sitting on the toilet with your
29:10 phone is giving people hemorrhoids.
29:11 >> Oh my god.
29:12 >> It's super scary. And it does something
29:14 similar to your mind, too. I don't know
29:16 what. But
29:18 >> that's Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's as I'm
29:20 listening to you, I'm just thinking like
29:22 that's really the core of all of it. And
29:24 you talked about the ego self at the
29:26 beginning. It's almost like the reason
29:27 why we're so obsessed with what everyone
29:29 thinks about us is because of the ego.
29:31 It's right there.
29:33 >> So if I was to ask you, what does
29:34 someone do to truly stop caring what
29:36 people think?
29:38 Because there's usefulness in caring
29:40 what people think. It's what helps the
29:44 world stay sane to some degree. But at
29:45 the same time, there's a part of you
29:47 which what you're saying which I love is
29:49 this idea of I loved I love the
29:51 explanation you gave between hey when I
29:53 was live on Twitch for five people it
29:56 felt right here and then the opposite to
29:57 that which is I don't feel good right
29:59 here so I'm going to numb myself with
30:03 technology or you said dull yourself.
30:06 How do we even get to that clarity that
30:09 I like doing this right now? Because I
30:11 think we've all become so clouded and
30:12 I'm sure you see this with the people
30:14 you help and serve and the millions of
30:16 people online all the time that even
30:18 when you encourage someone to move in a
30:20 direction of noticing what's true to
30:22 them, it becomes a really difficult
30:24 concept for people because they're like
30:25 I don't know what's true for me. I'm
30:27 kind of I like these all these things
30:29 and I like this but then but now I'm
30:30 distracted by video games. I'm now
30:32 distracted by porn. I'm now distra like
30:34 there those pulls are so strong that
30:36 even if you're close to knowing I really
30:38 like this five people on Twitch the
30:40 distraction of oh I wish I had a million
30:42 subscribers is so strong that you get
30:45 pulled away from that sense how does
30:49 someone truly know something that feels
30:52 right for them to pursue in a world
30:54 where they're either clouded so they
30:57 don't know themselves well enough or
30:58 they get distracted
30:59 >> I think the answer is sort of in the
31:01 question and I think this Why it's fun
31:03 to talk to you because you ask questions
31:05 with certain concepts in mind. So I
31:07 think you know I don't know what I feel
31:09 so let's understand that first right so
31:11 if you want to understand what you
31:12 really want because you are getting
31:14 distracted like and it happens to me too
31:16 I'll see you know now that I'm in like
31:18 whatever room I'm in I make comparisons
31:20 right oh this doctor is doing this this
31:24 influencer is doing this um so the first
31:26 thing to understand is that where you
31:28 spend your attention is going to be
31:31 where you get information so literally
31:34 like if I numb your tongue like if I'm
31:35 doing dental surgery like you you know
31:37 you can't talk you can't chew. So one of
31:40 the key concepts is awareness precedes
31:42 control. And you kind of pointed this
31:43 out that if we look at what's happening
31:46 in our world, where is our perception
31:47 going? Where is our attention going?
31:49 It's always going outside of us. You
31:52 know, I when I was in med school, I
31:53 started med school at the age of 28,
31:56 which was behind. And so I was like, "Oh
31:57 my god, like I have to be efficient. I
31:59 have to be efficient." Everyone is so
32:00 concerned with productivity and
32:02 efficiency. I think it's one of the most
32:05 damaging things in the world because now
32:07 I'm listening to a podcast on the way to
32:09 the train. I'm reading on the train,
32:11 listening to a lecture on the way to the
32:13 lecture hall, paying attention in the
32:15 lecture hall. Like every moment I can be
32:17 productive, I can be efficient. But my
32:20 attention is outside of me.
32:24 So I get bad. I I basically another
32:26 thing to understand about the mind is
32:28 the mind never wears out. It rusts. The
32:31 faculties that you do not use, you will
32:33 lose. This is why we forget languages
32:37 that we don't practice. Right? So, we're
32:39 our attention is going outside of us,
32:40 getting pulled away by things like
32:43 technology. And then once we start to if
32:46 I spend all of my time thinking about
32:49 what everybody else is doing, I will not
32:51 have a good sense of myself. So, the
32:53 first thing we need to do is internalize
32:55 our awareness.
32:57 The second thing to understand is that
32:59 internalizing our awareness, why don't
33:01 we do that? Because it's usually painful.
33:03 painful.
33:05 So I don't know why the world is
33:07 designed this way, but when a patient
33:09 comes to me and sits in therapy,
33:12 they don't have a breakthrough first and
33:16 then cry a lot at the end. They cry a
33:17 lot. They face their trauma. They face
33:19 their negative emotions and then the
33:22 good stuff is at the end. So the reason
33:23 people don't like to look within
33:25 themselves, we actually try really hard
33:28 to never look within ourselves
33:30 because there's usually a lot of pain in
33:32 there. Like I remember when I was at the
33:33 height of my video game addiction, I was
33:37 like 18 years old and I I for 18 for a
33:40 whole year, I never went to sleep. I
33:45 always passed out. If I got into bed and
33:47 what would happen if I was idle,
33:49 thoughts would start to flow like you're
33:52 screwing up your life. You know, there a
33:53 month has gone by. You haven't gone to a
33:55 single class in a month. You're screwing
33:56 everything up. I could see that I was
33:59 destroying my life and I was powerless
34:01 to stop it. So shame and guilt would
34:04 flood my mind and I hated that. So I
34:06 would play until 5:30 in the morning,
34:08 6:00 in the morning. So I was so
34:10 exhausted that I would just pass out
34:12 immediately because if I was awake for
34:15 even 5 minutes, my mind would turn on
34:17 and I would be awake for hours in
34:19 absolute torture.
34:20 >> So we don't like to look within
34:22 ourselves because looking within
34:24 ourselves is painful.
34:27 This is where there has to be this ugly
34:29 part. And from a neuroscience
34:31 perspective, what's going on is we are
34:34 doing so much emotional suppression
34:36 through technological devices. That's
34:37 what they do, right? So if you're
34:38 feeling anxious and you pull out your
34:40 phone and you like laugh at cats, then
34:42 like suddenly you feel better. So it
34:45 shuts that stuff off. So as we shut off
34:46 these circuits of the brain, we have to
34:49 reawaken them. And this is probably from
34:50 an evolutionary perspective. I don't
34:53 know if this kind of makes sense, but
34:55 negative emotions keep us alive more
34:58 than positive emotions. So our brain has
35:00 a bias to experience the negative over
35:02 the positive. So the first thing we have
35:05 to do is move our attention away from
35:07 the outside world. Spend some time with
35:10 yourself. No music, no headphones, no
35:12 podcast, nothing like that. I mean, I
35:14 love podcast. Love this podcast. But
35:16 spend some time, you know, after you
35:18 listen to this episode, sit in silence.
35:20 Let yourself absorb. Second thing is, if
35:22 you sit with yourself, what's going to
35:24 come up is a lot of negativity.
35:27 But that negativity
35:30 has to come out before it disappears.
35:32 >> Mhm. So when I'm sitting with a patient
35:34 who has a history of trauma, the trauma
35:36 is like stuck inside them and they use
35:39 so many defense mechanisms to bury it.
35:41 We want to bring that stuff up. We want
35:42 to have you crying and stuff like that
35:44 and then let it go. >> Mhm.
35:44 >> Mhm.
35:47 >> And then underneath all the negativity,
35:50 you will find that voice, that internal
35:52 sense of really what you want. >> Mhm.
35:52 >> Mhm.
35:55 >> Right. when you have a good cry at the
35:57 end of that like you'll have a sense of
35:58 peace and you'll be like okay like this
36:01 sucks now that I've sat with it what am
36:03 I going to do about it and it's amazing
36:07 how it happens you don't have to do it
36:08 all you have to do is create the right
36:11 circumstances and in the same way that
36:13 your body the moment that you swallow a
36:15 piece of food your body takes care of
36:18 the rest if you give your mind the right
36:20 environment it is designed to heal just
36:22 like a cut on my arm it will get rid of
36:24 those negative emotions, you just need
36:25 to stop getting in the way.
36:27 >> That's such a that is a really brilliant
36:30 explanation. Never heard it put that way
36:33 so well. It's I love the idea that your
36:35 mind is already designed to repair and
36:38 heal itself and if it's given the right
36:41 parameters and the right setup and the
36:43 right environment, it will naturally
36:44 find its way.
36:47 >> Absolutely. But but the key part that
36:51 you put there is the pain and the
36:54 discomfort is the prerequisite for a
36:57 breakthrough and our ability to sit in
37:00 that is the part that makes it
37:01 contingent as to whether we'll actually
37:03 rise above from it.
37:04 >> Yeah. So I I think just one other example.
37:05 example.
37:07 >> So I want you all to think about when
37:09 you get food poisoning, what does your
37:11 body do?
37:14 It's feels nauseous. I'm going to vomit.
37:16 the nausea and vomiting is doesn't feel
37:19 good, but it is healthy.
37:21 >> And so sometimes what I'll also do like
37:23 when my kids get food poisoning is I
37:24 I'll wait I won't give them anti-nausea
37:27 meds unless they're in risk of
37:28 dehydration. So there's times where you
37:30 have to stop what the the mind naturally
37:33 does. But generally speaking, we want
37:34 the mind like think about it for a
37:38 second. Every time you stop, if anxiety
37:40 arises, your mind is trying to like get
37:42 rid of it. It's trying to vomit it out.
37:44 Why does your mind keep doing that? Why
37:46 does it keep going there? Because that's
37:48 the problem it's trying to solve.
37:50 >> Yeah. Let's go back to the ego now. Sure.
37:50 Sure.
37:52 >> Because you don't want to I didn't want
37:54 you to miss out on that part. The ego I
37:57 raised because I was saying that
37:58 we were saying that a part of us has to
38:01 stop caring what people think in order
38:04 to even pursue this path. I'm assuming
38:06 when you were studying to become a monk
38:08 for seven years,
38:10 where was that intentional desire coming
38:12 for you?
38:13 Where was the intention of to be a monk
38:15 coming? It was coming from the ego,
38:17 >> right? Talk to me about that because
38:18 that doesn't make sense to the outside.
38:20 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I mean here's
38:22 what happened in my life. So went to
38:24 college. So growing up I was like kind
38:27 of gifted. Um so never really like
38:31 learned how to study. And then my
38:32 parents, you know, were like, "Oh, you
38:34 have to be Dr. Aluk." And then I
38:36 remember when I was 15 years old, I was
38:39 at a a party one day and some some adult
38:40 asked me like, "What do you want to be
38:41 when you grow And I said, "I want to be
38:44 a doctor." And they were like, "Wow,
38:45 like you're going to be a doctor. Like
38:48 that's so amazing, right?" And so my ego
38:49 loved that. I was like, "Oh my god, I
38:51 just say I'm going to be a doctor and
38:52 people are going to be like, "Wow, you
38:54 have so much potential." I loved hearing
38:56 that. And then, but my heart really
38:58 wasn't in it. It was like ego. So then
39:00 when like I got to college, I was like,
39:03 "Ah, like whatever." And so then what
39:04 started to happen, something weird
39:06 happened is I started to fail. Fell into
39:08 video game addiction. I started to feel
39:10 a lot of shame. And then all of my
39:12 friends like left me behind. I I
39:13 remember I went to a Christmas party
39:14 where there was a friend of mine from
39:16 high school and I hadn't seen her in a
39:17 few years and I was like, "What are you
39:19 doing?" And she's like, "Oh, you know, I
39:20 just finished med school. Like I'm going
39:23 to start opthalmology residency in like
39:24 a month." She's like, "What are you up
39:26 to?" And I'm like, "I'm applying to
39:27 medical school for the third year in a
39:32 row. I've been rejected 80 times." What
39:34 ended up happening is my ego was so low
39:37 or like it was so bruised that I pulled
39:39 a really interesting trick that happens
39:41 in in spirituality where I said I'm
39:44 going to be not material anymore. All of
39:46 these materialistic people are chasing
39:47 these material. You want to be a doctor
39:49 for money and fame and pride and all of
39:50 this. I'm going to be better. I'm going
39:52 to let go of materialism. I'm going to
39:54 rise above you. I'm going to be swami.
39:56 I'm going to be yogi. I'm going to be
39:59 great. But it was really ego. So that's
40:01 the original. So I fell in love with it
40:04 in a genuine way, but also what kept me
40:06 there was like this is the way that I
40:10 win. This is the way that I catch up.
40:12 This is the way that I impress people.
40:13 >> So it took a lot of
40:15 >> both of them were that way cuz even Dr.
40:16 Lane was
40:16 >> absolutely right. So that's what's
40:19 sneaky about the ego. It'll twist and turn.
40:20 turn. >> Yeah,
40:20 >> Yeah,
40:21 >> that sort of happened for a while.
40:23 Thankfully, I had some really excellent
40:25 teachers. I did a lot of meditation
40:26 practice and I kind of discovered that
40:28 years later that oh this is actually
40:32 like my ego. So that was my journey and
40:34 then then I actually like let go of the
40:36 ego quite a bit. I stopped caring about
40:38 my grades and we'll get to that in a
40:40 second. So I like ended up getting into
40:42 medical school and and I I tried to take
40:45 my vows. So when I was 21 years old I
40:47 went to my my guru and I said you know I
40:48 want to become a monk like can I take my
40:50 vows? And his response was really
40:52 interesting. He said, "Becoming a monk
40:54 is about giving up your life, but you
40:55 don't have a life worth giving up. Your
40:57 life is empty. Like, you haven't done
40:58 anything. What are you giving up?
41:00 Nothing. It's an escape." So, he said,
41:03 "Go back to the US, get a doctoral
41:05 degree, and if you still want to do it
41:07 when you're 30, we'll take you. You can
41:09 come back every summer. We'll continue
41:10 teaching you practices. You can continue
41:12 learning. You can walk that path, but
41:14 we're not going to let you take vows."
41:16 So, I said, "Okay, fine. Deal." So, I
41:18 went back, focused on getting a doctoral
41:20 degree. So, decided to go to medical
41:22 school. Um, that's a little bit silly
41:23 because my wife wanted to be married to
41:25 a doctor. I was like dating her and so I
41:27 was like, "All right, might as well."
41:29 Um, which is like so funny because, you
41:30 know, everyone thinks like, oh, like you
41:32 have some deep No, I was just like, I
41:33 got to get a doctoral degree and like
41:35 this chick that I like wants me to be a
41:37 doctor, so like let me do that cuz she's
41:40 going to think that's hot. Um, so I mean
41:42 it was so like simple, right? So as I
41:44 start really focusing on the work and
41:45 then I think I I sort of let go of my
41:47 ego and so you kind of talked about you
41:50 know how do you stop caring. So and like
41:52 you said you should care. So I care a
41:55 lot about what people think but I don't
41:58 let it determine my identity.
42:01 So people say negative things to me all
42:04 the time. I got reprimanded by the
42:06 medical board of Massachusetts. I think
42:07 that's a good thing. I think that's a
42:10 healthy thing. I think that sometimes in
42:12 life I make mistakes and I think
42:14 sometimes in life I behave in a
42:17 non-perfect way and so I value what
42:21 people think but I also accept that I'm
42:23 not perfect, right? So of course I'm
42:25 going to make mistakes. I I I try not to
42:28 let it affect my sense of me and that's
42:30 the key differentiator because what a
42:31 lot of people do, this is the biggest
42:33 mistake I think you can make is if
42:34 you're this is what happens, right?
42:37 People are like, "I care so much what
42:39 people think. So, how do I fix that? I
42:41 stop caring what people think." And then
42:43 you turn yourself into an
42:45 And then that causes lots of problems.
42:47 And so, the problem is either end of the
42:49 pendulum is a bad idea. >> Mhm.
42:50 >> Mhm.
42:53 >> So, receive what people think. Also add
42:54 some context to it. Don't just take it
42:56 at face value. Where is this person's
42:59 criticism coming from? 90% of the uh
43:01 criticism I get is projection, right?
43:03 they see in me something that they don't
43:06 like, but that's not really who I am.
43:08 So, accept the criticism and then also
43:11 recognize that just because someone says
43:14 something about you, even if it's true,
43:16 that's not who you are. >> Yeah.
43:16 >> Yeah.
43:19 >> Right. It's an attribute of you. But at
43:21 your core, you're just a regular human
43:24 being trying to navigate this world
43:26 doing the best that you can. And the
43:28 moment that you accept yourself as that,
43:30 nothing great but also nothing terrible,
43:32 things become way easier.
43:35 >> Yeah, it it seems like for most people
43:38 following whether they call it ego or
43:40 whether they call it something that gets
43:42 them the result they want, i.e. I get to
43:44 marry the girl I want or the guy I want
43:46 or it gets me a promotion, gets me some
43:48 more money, helps me move to this city.
43:50 It almost feels like that's a base level
43:53 motivator that pretty much all of us
43:54 function on.
43:54 >> Yeah. Yeah,
43:56 >> it's almost like the general operating
43:58 system of the world which is I need to
44:00 get this to get this
44:02 >> and it either serves you because you get
44:05 there and you get the girl or it doesn't
44:06 serve you because you don't get it and
44:08 then that's where people turn towards
44:10 depression and and other things as well.
44:11 Like that's it's almost like when your
44:14 ego is not fulfilled
44:17 for what it may think, it may end up
44:18 moving towards being disheartened,
44:21 depressed and lonely. Absolutely. So I I
44:24 think ego opens the door to those things
44:27 and there is a ton of evidence for that
44:29 and and I love your observation that
44:30 this is the default way. I think that's
44:33 what that's how far physical evolution
44:34 got us. >> Mhm.
44:34 >> Mhm.
44:36 >> So if you look at like how human beings
44:39 evol evolved like you know we evolved to
44:42 care what people around us think right
44:44 so exodus from the tribe ostracization
44:47 from the tribe meant death when we were
44:48 like growing up and couldn't take care
44:50 of ourselves and things like that. So we
44:51 lived in these very tribal communities.
44:53 I think society has changed so much
44:56 because in those tribal communities
44:58 we cared a lot about the judgment of
45:00 other people but we also had a lot of
45:03 baseline connection.
45:04 You know, I I remember I had a friend
45:06 who was like one of the earliest
45:09 streamers and I I asked him why he quit
45:10 and he said, "Well, because people on
45:13 the internet are and he's like,
45:14 you know, when I used to play games in
45:17 arcades, like if you're mean to
45:18 everybody, no one's ever going to play
45:19 with you. But on the internet, you can
45:20 be mean to anyone. There's no consequence."
45:21 consequence."
45:22 >> Yeah. Yeah.
45:24 >> So, we used to have this this our brain
45:26 evolved for some amount of like caring
45:28 what people think, but some amount of
45:30 default connection. People just don't
45:30 give up on you.
45:32 >> Yeah. In today's world, people are so replaceable.
45:34 replaceable.
45:36 So those things worked when they when
45:38 they were both there. Now we have an
45:40 imbalance where people are so
45:42 replaceable. Everybody ghosts everybody.
45:45 Online dating is like I can keep on I I
45:48 don't have to choose between 10 people,
45:50 100 people, a thousand people. The
45:52 number of options, Jay, is infinite.
45:55 >> I can keep scrolling, keep scrolling,
45:58 keep scrolling until I find what I want.
46:00 So that sort of thing has has really
46:02 changed and so now what we have to do is
46:07 learn a new way to relate to people to
46:10 form our identity and then arguably you
46:12 can talk about like this is the limit of
46:13 physical evolution and there's a whole
46:15 weird spiritual perspective on on
46:18 spiritual evolution. Um but I do think
46:20 that like this is a skill and this is
46:21 why we're seeing an explosion of mindfulness,
46:22 mindfulness,
46:23 >> right? Right. I mean, it's it was
46:25 transformative for you, transformative
46:27 for me that these concepts are what you
46:30 need to survive and thrive in today's world.
46:30 world.
46:33 >> Yeah. It's almost scary when you put it
46:35 like that though, where you're like and
46:37 and I love that example of Yeah. If you
46:40 were playing a video game at an arcade,
46:42 generally if you were decent, people
46:43 would crowd around you and watch and
46:44 cheer you on.
46:46 >> If you were bad at something, maybe one
46:48 person would walk past and laugh or make
46:50 fun of you.
46:51 >> And and now, of course, that's
46:52 escalated. And that's what leads to
46:53 loneliness because people are like,
46:55 "Well, I don't want to put myself out
46:56 there. I don't want to go on that dating
46:58 app. I don't want to make a video. I
47:00 don't want to chase my passion because
47:01 actually if I do that, there's going to
47:04 be hundreds of thousands of people or
47:06 forget that, there's going to be just
47:08 the 10 people around me, my own family,
47:10 that disagrees with what I'm doing." And
47:13 so if someone's in that state right now
47:15 where they're like, "I'm scared about
47:18 putting myself out there from a let's
47:19 let's choose dating because you brought
47:22 up dating. I'm scared of putting myself
47:23 out there from a dating perspective
47:25 because I think I'm replaceable. I'm
47:27 actually scared of even believing that
47:30 real connection exists. I don't even
47:31 know if there's someone out there for me.
47:32 me.
47:35 How do I even begin
47:37 to work against the math and the
47:38 algorithm which is feels like it's set
47:41 up against me.
47:42 This is the first time I'm going to say
47:44 I don't know. So, I think dating is the
47:46 one thing I've been focused a lot on
47:49 over the last year. But in terms of what
47:52 I understand and what I know, I got
47:56 lucky. So like I found my hopefully life
47:59 partner before things got really really hard.
47:59 hard. >> Yeah.
48:00 >> Yeah.
48:02 >> And I think if you're not someone so
48:04 this is the one area where I kind of
48:06 feel like I don't know. So some of the
48:08 things that I'll do and and this is why
48:10 like I kind of make the content that I
48:12 do is you know I I made this guide to
48:14 meditation and what the best answer I
48:17 have is start to use some of these
48:19 concepts start to internalize some of
48:22 these skills. If we look at the way in
48:26 which dating in today's world scars you
48:29 that involves hits to your ego that
48:31 involves these things like some scars
48:32 and there's a we have a trauma guide too
48:34 where we kind of go into that but if we
48:36 kind of think about like why is dating
48:38 so hard this is the akrit concept of
48:40 something called a sumscar so this is
48:42 kind of like a trauma so if you kind of
48:44 think about every person that you date
48:47 you're not just dating that person
48:49 you're carrying the emotional baggage of
48:51 all of your experiences And this is why
48:53 online dating is such a mess. Because if
48:56 you go to date someone online, they're
48:58 not judging you based on you. They're
49:00 judging you based on all of their past experiences
49:02 experiences
49:02 >> and yours
49:04 >> and yours, right? So, so when someone
49:07 doesn't text you back, your mind
49:10 attaches associations to that, right?
49:12 Like, oh, this means they're ghosting
49:14 me. Well, why do you interpret that as
49:16 ghosting? Because I've been ghosted
49:18 before and it hurts so much. So as we go
49:21 through life, we start accumulating
49:24 baggage. And then what happens is we're
49:27 not dealing with a person. We're
49:29 interpreting that person. And I'm sure
49:30 there are people in the audience who
49:31 have felt this where people don't judge
49:34 you for you. They look at some tiny
49:38 fraction of you and they inject all of
49:40 their negative experiences with people
49:43 like that. All men are dangerous. All
49:46 women, you can't trust women, right? So
49:47 where do these generalizations come
49:49 from? And we see this so much get this
49:51 kind of indoctrination
49:54 using social media. But the the root uh
49:57 the psychological injury is there.
49:59 And so the best thing that I know how to
50:02 do is teach people
50:04 let's give you a course in yourself. >> Yeah.
50:05 >> Yeah.
50:07 >> This is how you work. And that's really
50:09 what I learned in India when I was here
50:10 in the United States. They'll teach me
50:11 about physics. They'll teach me about
50:14 chemistry. No one could explain to me,
50:17 "I want to wake up at 8:00 a.m., but I
50:20 never do. I want to stop playing video
50:22 games, but I can't control myself." And
50:25 so, as we teach people,
50:27 like, it's interesting cuz we have a lot
50:28 of incels that have been coming into our
50:30 community for the last few years, and
50:32 like they're starting to get better. As
50:34 you teach people, this is how I work.
50:37 This is where my ego comes from. I want
50:39 a relationship so bad that I'm going to
50:41 tolerate abuse because I'm scared of
50:44 loneliness. I would rather be abused
50:46 than alone. So once you start to
50:48 understand these things about yourself,
50:50 once you start to dissolve your ego a
50:51 little bit, once you start to realize
50:54 what your sum scars are, what is the
50:56 emotional baggage that you carry around
51:00 that sabotages all of your interactions?
51:02 And the way that you know this happens
51:04 is because the same crap keeps happening
51:06 to you over and over again. This person
51:08 takes advantage of you. This person
51:09 takes advantage of you. This person
51:12 takes advantage of you. That's because
51:15 you are sending out a signal that they
51:18 are picking up on
51:19 because they test boundaries. They'll
51:20 they'll treat you a little bit
51:24 inappropriately and you'll take it or
51:26 they detect that you're a people pleaser
51:28 and that you don't you can't tolerate
51:30 someone being upset. This is one of the
51:32 huge one of the biggest things that I
51:35 think people we've trained people to do
51:38 is tolerate people have now become intolerant
51:40 intolerant
51:43 of the dissatisfaction of others. If
51:45 somebody doesn't like me, I can't handle
51:48 that anymore. And so as you start to
51:50 realize some of these patterns, then I
51:53 think you're you form yourself into a
51:55 better human being. And then fingers
51:57 crossed it's up to karma or God or the
51:59 universe or whatever or the algorithm.
52:00 But I think the best thing that I know
52:02 how to tell people is turn yourself into
52:05 the healthiest human you can and then
52:06 the rest of it is kind of out of your control.
52:07 control.
52:09 >> Yeah, I actually I actually find that
52:10 approach quite refreshing and and I
52:12 think it's true. You just get a better
52:15 radar. You get a better ability to spot frequency.
52:16 frequency.
52:18 And I don't mean on a spiritual level. I
52:21 just mean on a on a general human level.
52:23 >> You like you just said, you set up your
52:24 boundaries better. You have better
52:26 barriers. You have better filters early
52:28 on. You don't allow someone with bad
52:29 behavior to last longer than they should.
52:30 should. >> Absolutely.
52:30 >> Absolutely.
52:33 >> And all of those things save you from
52:35 wasting time and energy.
52:37 >> And I think one of the biggest things is
52:39 you don't allow your old
52:41 old
52:43 kind of Hollywood
52:45 romance Disney version that was
52:49 programmed into you to rerun the program
52:51 every time it feels that way. So I think
52:53 so much of this goes back to that same
52:54 thing. It's like how do you not let that
52:58 old circuitry take over again even if
52:59 you've learned all these new principles
53:01 and you're meditating and you're mindful
53:02 and all this stuff but it can just flip back
53:03 back
53:06 >> because it's so hardwired and and that
53:07 ultimately sometimes you see people are
53:09 doing all the right work but they meet
53:11 someone that they found attractive
53:12 traditionally and then everything's gone
53:13 out the window.
53:14 >> Yeah. So I think it's really
53:16 uncomfortable. It's it's a beautiful
53:18 example because you kind of do
53:20 everything that you're supposed to do
53:22 but you never do the one thing you need
53:22 to do. Yeah,
53:25 >> I see this all the time in my patients.
53:27 And and you offered, I think, the best
53:29 example, which is you find someone that
53:31 you're attracted to. And what a lot of
53:34 people need to do is start looking at
53:36 people they're not attracted to. Don't
53:38 just accept that attraction because when
53:41 you follow that kind of attraction, it
53:43 gets you back into the cycle. I'm going
53:44 to meditate and I'm going to do this and
53:45 I'm going to do this, but then this kind
53:47 of person shows up and I'm going to make
53:48 the same damn mistake again. >> Yeah.
53:49 >> Yeah.
53:49 >> Right. Yeah.
53:52 >> So, so and it feels so counterintuitive.
53:53 I think another thing like so sometimes
53:55 my patients will come in, we'll talk
53:56 about, you know, dating and
53:58 relationships and they'll be like, you
54:00 know, but but it sounds like Dr. K,
54:01 you're saying I shouldn't be myself. And
54:04 I'm like, yeah, you shouldn't. I think
54:06 being yourself, I know this sounds kind
54:07 of weird, but let me explain. Being
54:09 yourself is one of the worst things that
54:12 you can do. Like, what created this
54:14 version of you? A lot of unconscious
54:16 programming, a lot of social
54:18 conditioning, a lot of trauma, right?
54:20 All of these things have turned you into
54:23 the current version of you. So I think
54:27 the real you is way more formless and
54:28 egoless and all that kind of stuff. We
54:31 actually need to dismantle. Don't just
54:33 be this set of patterns. That's what
54:35 they often times mean. They say like,
54:36 you know, if you can't handle me at my
54:37 worst, you don't deserve me at my best.
54:39 So I'm going to continue acting at my
54:41 worst. This is what we tell people
54:42 nowadays. I think that's a terrible
54:45 idea. And we wonder why there's such a
54:47 dating and mating crisis when everyone's
54:48 like, I'm just going to be me. If you
54:50 don't like me, you can move on. I'm
54:51 going to move on, too. Everyone is
54:54 replaceable. I don't need to change.
54:55 >> Right? So, I think we need to take a
54:57 step back from that and try to really
54:59 turn yourself into the best human being
55:02 that you know how to be. And then I
55:03 think things will turn around, which is
55:05 what I see pretty consistently.
55:07 >> Yeah. Yeah. At least you have the tools. >> Yeah.
55:08 >> Yeah.
55:10 >> Like you said, they may not it may not
55:11 solve all your problems, but at least
55:12 you have the tools to know what to do
55:14 with it. What do you what do you think
55:15 it means? You talk so much about
55:16 masculinity, which I really appreciate
55:19 because I think it's an area that
55:21 >> the country as a whole that we both live
55:23 in is dealing with right now. Yeah. The
55:25 world's dealing with it for sure. What
55:29 does it even mean to be a man right now?
55:30 >> I I don't know. >> Yeah.
55:30 >> Yeah.
55:32 >> Yeah. So, I mean I I don't
55:33 >> Yeah. What's confusing people, I guess,
55:34 is the question.
55:36 >> Yeah. So, I I I I mean, I don't
55:38 prescribe. So masculinity, my
55:40 understanding of like the the scientific
55:42 or literature definition is like it's
55:44 like the set of, you know, behaviors and
55:48 expectations that we put on men. That's
55:50 not that's not the lens that I work. So
55:51 if you ask me about masculinity, I'd say
55:53 like go ask someone else. I mean, I'm
55:54 going to talk about it, but like just to
55:56 be clear, you know, I'm a clinician. >> Yeah.
55:56 >> Yeah.
56:01 >> So my my I'm zoomed into one person at a
56:02 time. Mhm.
56:03 >> So, what I I think is going on right
56:05 now, um, you know, I I had a a really
56:08 interesting video come out recently that
56:10 got a lot of controversy about why women
56:11 prefer beta males. >> Mhm.
56:12 >> Mhm.
56:13 >> So, this is like a big thing where
56:14 everyone's like, I'm going to be alpha
56:16 and there's so much weird science that
56:18 people don't understand.
56:21 So, as one simple example of like a lot
56:23 of what masculinity like everyone wants
56:25 to be ripped, so there's a great study
56:26 that looked at something called drive
56:28 for muscularity.
56:30 >> Mhm. So this is not how muscular you
56:33 are, but how much you want to be
56:36 muscular. So the higher your drive for
56:39 muscularity is, the lower your
56:40 likelihood of entering a long-term
56:42 relationship. You can enter short-term
56:44 relationships. Um higher likelihood of
56:47 divorce. And I think there's there's a
56:48 lot of like cross talk where like a lot
56:50 of women are saying what we want is like
56:53 safety, not some dude who's like super
56:57 cut. And so there's a lot of confusion
56:58 about what it means to be a man. I think
57:00 one of the reasons why there's confusion
57:02 is because of sort of the way that men
57:05 and women operate. So
57:07 there's a part of
57:10 men that focuses on intrammale
57:13 competition. So I'm going to talk a
57:14 little bit about animals and I don't
57:16 think that translates over 100%. So big
57:18 caveat there. But if you look at sort of
57:22 like, you know, a a a lion pride, right?
57:24 The males will fight amongst themselves
57:26 and then one male will rise to the top
57:28 and then he becomes the male of the
57:30 pride. So there's this idea that like
57:32 men will fight amongst each other.
57:34 They'll create a hierarchy and then
57:36 that'll make them attractive to women.
57:38 And I certainly know that it was really
57:40 weird once I got married and started
57:42 wearing a wedding ring. I got way more
57:44 female attention. So, I think there's
57:46 some element of that that that that's
57:49 true. But I think that having spent a
57:51 lot of time working with female
57:53 patients, everyone's an individual.
57:54 We're not just like products of our
57:56 biology. And I think this is what really
57:58 confuses men is that we can fight
57:59 amongst ourselves, but that's not
58:01 actually what women want. That's not
58:03 what they actually make their their
58:05 selections based off of. So, I think a
58:07 lot of masculinity right now is men
58:10 trying to become as manly as possible
58:11 >> in the alpha sense.
58:13 >> In the alpha sense. And I think that
58:15 people get super confused because like
58:17 that doesn't translate over into
58:18 happiness. And if it doesn't translate
58:20 over into happiness, you know, the these
58:22 dudes like I've worked with so many men
58:24 who like are super into transactional
58:25 relationships because they really think
58:28 that human females that these general
58:30 principles of how lions select mates
58:32 will translate over to an individual
58:34 person who has unique genetics, unique
58:36 history, and that doesn't work. So they
58:37 approach this relationship
58:38 transactionally. They'll think like, oh,
58:41 all women want is like money. So if I approach
58:43 approach
58:45 a relationship from a transactional
58:49 perspective, if I see a woman as just a
58:52 biological uterus,
58:55 the women who want a partnership will
58:57 run away. The women who have enough
58:58 confidence will be like, "This guy is an
59:00 They'll they'll leave." And so
59:02 all you'll be left with is women who
59:04 also view relationships in a
59:05 transactional way. And then that will
59:08 sort of feed into giving you this idea
59:10 of like, okay, this is all women want
59:11 because all the women who don't want
59:12 that will never date you in the first
59:15 place. So I think we're seeing a lot of
59:18 these like mechanisms at play. I think a
59:23 lot of this masculinity is because um we
59:26 expect a lot from men, but as men are
59:28 failing those expectations because I
59:30 think they're unreasonable, we're not
59:32 really giving them an alternative. Mhm.
59:34 >> So I think you know research shows that
59:37 most women still want to date a man who
59:41 makes more money than they do. But 60
59:43 plus% of people who go to college are
59:45 now women. So what's happened is men are
59:47 in this really tough spot where the
59:51 expectations from men have not changed.
59:53 But society has changed. So we can't
59:56 meet those expectations anymore. And so
59:57 that there's this really interesting
59:59 gap. When people feel crushed, when they feel rejected, the ego activates. We
60:02 feel rejected, the ego activates. We fall into all of these like unhealthy
60:05 fall into all of these like unhealthy behaviors like pornography and drugs and
60:07 behaviors like pornography and drugs and video games and stuff like that to soo
60:09 video games and stuff like that to soo our internal environment. We don't teach
60:11 our internal environment. We don't teach boys or men emotional regulation skills.
60:14 boys or men emotional regulation skills. And so I think there's like just a
60:16 And so I think there's like just a confluence of a thousand things going on
60:18 confluence of a thousand things going on and men are getting like crushed and
60:20 and men are getting like crushed and squeezed.
60:21 squeezed. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean that I mean and and I
60:23 >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean that I mean and and I appreciate I know you're a clinician. I
60:24 appreciate I know you're a clinician. I just find your perspective on some of
60:27 just find your perspective on some of these more societal
60:29 these more societal >> challenges to be to be, you know, great
60:32 >> challenges to be to be, you know, great observations and and I and I feel
60:34 observations and and I and I feel similarly it's almost like it's what we
60:37 similarly it's almost like it's what we talked about. We talked about there were
60:39 talked about. We talked about there were targets
60:40 targets somehow some of those targets have
60:42 somehow some of those targets have remained but they feel unmeable.
60:43 remained but they feel unmeable. >> Yep.
60:44 >> Yep. >> And then there are moving targets which
60:46 >> And then there are moving targets which you keep trying to place i.e. I need to
60:48 you keep trying to place i.e. I need to get more buff, I need to get more
60:49 get more buff, I need to get more ripped, I need to get more money,
60:51 ripped, I need to get more money, whatever it may be. And they become
60:52 whatever it may be. And they become arbitrary, abstract targets. What's
60:55 arbitrary, abstract targets. What's happening for women on the other side?
60:56 happening for women on the other side? Because society's also changed and and
60:59 Because society's also changed and and their desires.
61:00 their desires. >> Yeah. I think they're getting equally
61:01 >> Yeah. I think they're getting equally screwed.
61:02 screwed. >> Yeah.
61:02 >> Yeah. >> So, so I I think the you know of the
61:04 >> So, so I I think the you know of the first thing to understand and I don't
61:06 first thing to understand and I don't think it's like a competition. I think
61:08 think it's like a competition. I think as society is changing, women are facing
61:11 as society is changing, women are facing particular challenges, men are facing
61:12 particular challenges, men are facing particular challenges. And one of the
61:14 particular challenges. And one of the beautiful things we've seen in our
61:15 beautiful things we've seen in our community is the more that we understand
61:17 community is the more that we understand that I think the better off things get.
61:20 that I think the better off things get. >> That's the conversation that needs to be
61:21 >> That's the conversation that needs to be had.
61:21 had. >> Yeah. So, and it's beautiful. I I
61:23 >> Yeah. So, and it's beautiful. I I remember a post that someone once made.
61:24 remember a post that someone once made. So, there there was a a a woman who's
61:27 So, there there was a a a woman who's very attractive who said, you know, I'm
61:29 very attractive who said, you know, I'm an incredibly attractive physical
61:31 an incredibly attractive physical physically attractive woman. I feel so
61:34 physically attractive woman. I feel so incredibly alone. Every time I meet
61:36 incredibly alone. Every time I meet someone, they don't see me. They don't
61:38 someone, they don't see me. They don't care about me. They just care about the
61:39 care about me. They just care about the way that I look and things like that. So
61:40 way that I look and things like that. So there are people always around me, but
61:42 there are people always around me, but they're like using me constantly. And
61:44 they're like using me constantly. And then the really funny thing is like
61:46 then the really funny thing is like there was an incel in her subreddit who
61:48 there was an incel in her subreddit who was like, "Wow, like the way you're
61:49 was like, "Wow, like the way you're describing loneliness, that's exactly
61:51 describing loneliness, that's exactly how I feel. I never imagined that like a
61:55 how I feel. I never imagined that like a 10 out of 10 attractive woman could feel
61:57 10 out of 10 attractive woman could feel the way that I feel." And it was like a
61:59 the way that I feel." And it was like a really beautiful moment like of weird
62:01 really beautiful moment like of weird connection over the internet. I think
62:03 connection over the internet. I think one of the key things that women are
62:04 one of the key things that women are struggling with right now is first of
62:05 struggling with right now is first of all safety. So, I think that uh men are
62:10 all safety. So, I think that uh men are getting very aggressive. Men are getting
62:12 getting very aggressive. Men are getting very angry and there's some reasons for
62:14 very angry and there's some reasons for that. I think that's not some that's a
62:15 that. I think that's not some that's a problem, but I think it's the only card
62:17 problem, but I think it's the only card men have to play in today's society. So,
62:21 men have to play in today's society. So, I think they're they're safety is kind
62:22 I think they're they're safety is kind of the number one priority um or like
62:25 of the number one priority um or like the number one danger that a lot of like
62:27 the number one danger that a lot of like women face. And I and I think it's
62:29 women face. And I and I think it's something that a lot of men like can't
62:31 something that a lot of men like can't understand. So I remember getting
62:34 understand. So I remember getting frustrated because I was like walking
62:36 frustrated because I was like walking behind a woman and we were walking. So I
62:39 behind a woman and we were walking. So I was walking down in New York City
62:40 was walking down in New York City actually and she like turned ahead of me
62:42 actually and she like turned ahead of me and it was night time but I'm like
62:43 and it was night time but I'm like walking behind her. We're walking at the
62:45 walking behind her. We're walking at the same pace and then you know later on
62:47 same pace and then you know later on someone kind of tells me like oh you
62:49 someone kind of tells me like oh you shouldn't do that because it seems like
62:50 shouldn't do that because it seems like you're following her. And so then
62:52 you're following her. And so then they're like what you should do is like
62:53 they're like what you should do is like pass her. So then I started walking
62:54 pass her. So then I started walking really fast and someone else tells me
62:56 really fast and someone else tells me like you should never do that because
62:57 like you should never do that because now you're like it seems like you're
62:58 now you're like it seems like you're walking fast. You're you're get you know
63:00 walking fast. You're you're get you know you're getting closer to her. So then
63:01 you're getting closer to her. So then it's like what am I supposed to do? And
63:03 it's like what am I supposed to do? And they're like you should cross the street
63:04 they're like you should cross the street and then I cross the street but then
63:06 and then I cross the street but then like
63:06 like >> then you got run over. It's like
63:07 >> then you got run over. It's like >> I didn't get run over but then there's
63:09 >> I didn't get run over but then there's another woman on the other side of the
63:10 another woman on the other side of the street. It's like cuz it turns out
63:14 street. It's like cuz it turns out >> so I'm just like like zigzag is zagging
63:16 >> so I'm just like like zigzag is zagging back and forth. So So but I I think the
63:17 back and forth. So So but I I think the reason that they feel this way is
63:18 reason that they feel this way is because they they things are unsafe.
63:21 because they they things are unsafe. >> Yeah.
63:22 >> Yeah. >> And a lot of men feel like they women
63:24 >> And a lot of men feel like they women don't give them a chance. And it's kind
63:25 don't give them a chance. And it's kind of like imagine that a third of the
63:28 of like imagine that a third of the people that walk into your store are
63:30 people that walk into your store are going to steal from you.
63:32 going to steal from you. How would you relate to that? I think a
63:34 How would you relate to that? I think a lot of men just don't understand the
63:36 lot of men just don't understand the statistics
63:38 statistics >> around how easy it is to become a victim
63:42 >> around how easy it is to become a victim if you're a woman in this world. You can
63:43 if you're a woman in this world. You can become a victim as a man too. I I don't
63:45 become a victim as a man too. I I don't think we take um you know cases of of
63:48 think we take um you know cases of of male sexual assault victims even by
63:50 male sexual assault victims even by women and teachers and things like that.
63:52 women and teachers and things like that. We don't take that seriously. um which
63:53 We don't take that seriously. um which is a real problem. But I think that's
63:56 is a real problem. But I think that's one thing that they're really struggling
63:57 one thing that they're really struggling with.
63:58 with. >> I think another thing that they're
63:59 >> I think another thing that they're really struggling with is that there is
64:01 really struggling with is that there is a lack of good men that women are
64:03 a lack of good men that women are looking for partnership. They're looking
64:05 looking for partnership. They're looking for companionship and a lot of men have
64:07 for companionship and a lot of men have become angry. And this is where like you
64:09 become angry. And this is where like you know people will say like we blame them.
64:10 know people will say like we blame them. I think that's the big mistake that we
64:12 I think that's the big mistake that we make. I think the reason that so many
64:14 make. I think the reason that so many men are struggling right now is because
64:16 men are struggling right now is because they're the one demographic that we as a
64:19 they're the one demographic that we as a society don't help. So the one thing
64:22 society don't help. So the one thing that hasn't changed, this is maybe the
64:24 that hasn't changed, this is maybe the most damaging thing is we expect men to
64:26 most damaging thing is we expect men to solve their own problems. So 60% of
64:31 solve their own problems. So 60% of people who go to college are women.
64:32 people who go to college are women. Where are the male scholarships? We
64:34 Where are the male scholarships? We don't want we don't need those because
64:36 don't want we don't need those because men have privilege. And I think this is
64:38 men have privilege. And I think this is what's really scary is, you know, I see
64:40 what's really scary is, you know, I see this a lot because I'll have CEOs come
64:42 this a lot because I'll have CEOs come into my office and then like I'll go and
64:44 into my office and then like I'll go and work in a jail and right most of the
64:46 work in a jail and right most of the people in jail are men. And so when we
64:48 people in jail are men. And so when we talk about male privilege, which is
64:50 talk about male privilege, which is real, the key thing is like it affects
64:52 real, the key thing is like it affects men, some men a lot, but it doesn't
64:55 men, some men a lot, but it doesn't affect others. So the majority of
64:57 affect others. So the majority of workplace injuries,
64:59 workplace injuries, um, you know, things like that, like
65:00 um, you know, things like that, like those are all men. And so I I think that
65:02 those are all men. And so I I think that we need to sort of stop thinking about
65:04 we need to sort of stop thinking about yes, male privilege exists, but it may
65:08 yes, male privilege exists, but it may be insufficient to compensate. And this
65:10 be insufficient to compensate. And this is how people think. They think that if
65:12 is how people think. They think that if there's privilege, that means that there
65:14 there's privilege, that means that there isn't hurt, right? But like it though
65:16 isn't hurt, right? But like it though things don't even out.
65:18 things don't even out. >> One thing I appreciate about medicine is
65:20 >> One thing I appreciate about medicine is things are very multiffactorial. So
65:22 things are very multiffactorial. So there's a lot of variables here. And
65:24 there's a lot of variables here. And just because you're rich doesn't mean
65:26 just because you're rich doesn't mean that like that has great advantages, but
65:29 that like that has great advantages, but if you get cancer, you still have
65:31 if you get cancer, you still have cancer. It's not like being rich cancels
65:33 cancer. It's not like being rich cancels out cancer. It may help in a very
65:35 out cancer. It may help in a very significant way, which unfortunately
65:36 significant way, which unfortunately I've seen. There's some degree of like
65:38 I've seen. There's some degree of like connection there, but one doesn't
65:40 connection there, but one doesn't replace the other.
65:41 replace the other. >> Mhm. Yeah. No. And it and and I think
65:44 >> Mhm. Yeah. No. And it and and I think you took it to the higher ground there
65:45 you took it to the higher ground there which I really appreciate which is
65:47 which I really appreciate which is that's the convers and that's why I
65:48 that's the convers and that's why I asked about both the conversation that
65:49 asked about both the conversation that needs to be had is how do we just
65:52 needs to be had is how do we just understand each other better because
65:54 understand each other better because generally what we find and it's easier
65:56 generally what we find and it's easier because it's clickbait gets more views
65:58 because it's clickbait gets more views gets more attentions is the small echo
66:00 gets more attentions is the small echo chambers of one or the other. Like we
66:03 chambers of one or the other. Like we could be sitting here as a conversation
66:04 could be sitting here as a conversation as men having a conversation about how
66:06 as men having a conversation about how women have let us down or we could be
66:08 women have let us down or we could be having a conversation about how men are
66:11 having a conversation about how men are terrible because then that makes us look
66:13 terrible because then that makes us look like better men and both are not helpful
66:15 like better men and both are not helpful for society because
66:18 for society because >> we're just going to sit on the opposite
66:19 >> we're just going to sit on the opposite sides of the bridge and just point
66:21 sides of the bridge and just point fingers.
66:22 fingers. >> Yeah, I'm with you. So I I think that
66:23 >> Yeah, I'm with you. So I I think that you know that's what happens is like
66:24 you know that's what happens is like that's literally what we see is like
66:26 that's literally what we see is like then you know male only spaces will
66:30 then you know male only spaces will highlight how women are saying that men
66:32 highlight how women are saying that men are all trash and then
66:33 are all trash and then >> and many to make seven figures or
66:35 >> and many to make seven figures or whatever it is.
66:35 whatever it is. >> Yeah. Right. So so and everyone's just
66:37 >> Yeah. Right. So so and everyone's just pointing the finger at each other and I
66:38 pointing the finger at each other and I think I think you're spot on that what
66:40 think I think you're spot on that what we really try to do is just understand
66:42 we really try to do is just understand >> sort of recognize that every human being
66:45 >> sort of recognize that every human being doesn't matter if you're a man it
66:46 doesn't matter if you're a man it doesn't matter if you're a woman you
66:47 doesn't matter if you're a woman you have a unique set of advantages. You
66:49 have a unique set of advantages. You have a unique set of challenges. Let's
66:51 have a unique set of challenges. Let's understand who you are. Let's give you
66:53 understand who you are. Let's give you this basic set of skills of like
66:55 this basic set of skills of like self-standing,
66:57 self-standing, dissolving your ego, emotional
66:59 dissolving your ego, emotional regulation. And if you like work on this
67:01 regulation. And if you like work on this stuff, I think that's the best way is
67:04 stuff, I think that's the best way is you become a healthy human, an
67:06 you become a healthy human, an independent human. I think that sets you
67:08 independent human. I think that sets you up for the best kind of relationship.
67:10 up for the best kind of relationship. >> I think that speaks to a big issue right
67:12 >> I think that speaks to a big issue right now. I'd love to know how you work with
67:13 now. I'd love to know how you work with people on this because it's a big part
67:16 people on this because it's a big part of self-standing is there's such a
67:20 of self-standing is there's such a challenge we have with raising the mind
67:24 challenge we have with raising the mind from judgment to understanding.
67:27 from judgment to understanding. It's so much easier to judge, blame,
67:30 It's so much easier to judge, blame, point fingers, shift responsibility
67:33 point fingers, shift responsibility to make sense of someone through very
67:37 to make sense of someone through very little amounts of information to have a
67:39 little amounts of information to have a projection on them. How do we encourage?
67:41 projection on them. How do we encourage? How do you encourage your clients? How
67:43 How do you encourage your clients? How do you encourage your patients and
67:44 do you encourage your patients and people you meet to rise from judgment to
67:46 people you meet to rise from judgment to understanding in a world where we don't
67:49 understanding in a world where we don't have time? We don't have energy for
67:50 have time? We don't have energy for that. It requires so much more effort.
67:53 that. It requires so much more effort. So, I don't know about time, but it does
67:55 So, I don't know about time, but it does require more energy and it does require
67:57 require more energy and it does require more effort until you learn how to do
67:59 more effort until you learn how to do it. So, I I once had a patient who um I
68:03 it. So, I I once had a patient who um I was in training at the time. They were
68:04 was in training at the time. They were an adolescent and they had all kinds of
68:07 an adolescent and they had all kinds of behavioral problems. So, this was a kid
68:09 behavioral problems. So, this was a kid who would start fights, um, would smear
68:13 who would start fights, um, would smear feces all over the bathroom at school
68:16 feces all over the bathroom at school and like what everyone does, this is so
68:19 and like what everyone does, this is so sad, but what everyone when someone does
68:21 sad, but what everyone when someone does something really crappy, what we want to
68:24 something really crappy, what we want to do is punish them. But if you want to
68:26 do is punish them. But if you want to stop that behavior, what you really need
68:28 stop that behavior, what you really need is compassion.
68:30 is compassion. >> So, if you sort of think about judgment,
68:32 >> So, if you sort of think about judgment, judgment is like a narrowing, right? So,
68:34 judgment is like a narrowing, right? So, I'm saying like you are bad. So there
68:37 I'm saying like you are bad. So there are a couple of things that create
68:39 are a couple of things that create judgment in the brain. The first is
68:43 judgment in the brain. The first is activation of negative emotion.
68:46 activation of negative emotion. If my adrenaline is high or if I feel
68:50 If my adrenaline is high or if I feel angry or afraid or anxious, this does
68:54 angry or afraid or anxious, this does something really interesting. It narrows
68:56 something really interesting. It narrows our peripheral vision from 180° to 30°.
69:00 our peripheral vision from 180° to 30°. >> Wow. So literally when if I were angry
69:02 >> Wow. So literally when if I were angry with you right now, I would be zoomed in
69:05 with you right now, I would be zoomed in on you because you were the threat. You
69:07 on you because you were the threat. You were the danger. The really interesting
69:09 were the danger. The really interesting thing is that it does that
69:10 thing is that it does that psychologically too.
69:11 psychologically too. >> We stopped seeing context when this
69:15 >> We stopped seeing context when this person dumped me.
69:16 person dumped me. >> Oh, that's so good.
69:17 >> Oh, that's so good. >> I didn't think about what's going on in
69:19 >> I didn't think about what's going on in their not even dumped when this person
69:22 their not even dumped when this person said no, I don't want to go on a date. I
69:25 said no, I don't want to go on a date. I didn't think about what's going on in
69:27 didn't think about what's going on in their life. I didn't think about the way
69:29 their life. I didn't think about the way I smell. I didn't think about any of
69:31 I smell. I didn't think about any of those things. All I see is that hurt and
69:33 those things. All I see is that hurt and it causes me to see red.
69:35 it causes me to see red. >> Wow.
69:36 >> Wow. >> And then I will snap into judgment. And
69:37 >> And then I will snap into judgment. And this is evolutionary, by the way.
69:40 this is evolutionary, by the way. >> So when a tiger when I'm like working
69:42 >> So when a tiger when I'm like working the fields and a tiger shows up, I don't
69:44 the fields and a tiger shows up, I don't want to be like, hm, I wonder what how
69:46 want to be like, hm, I wonder what how that tiger's feeling today. Like is the
69:48 that tiger's feeling today. Like is the tiger hungry? Is they not hungry? So
69:49 tiger hungry? Is they not hungry? So this is evolutionary. Fear and anger
69:52 this is evolutionary. Fear and anger cause us to zoom in, see black and
69:55 cause us to zoom in, see black and white, and act before we think, which is
69:58 white, and act before we think, which is the only way that we survive.
70:00 the only way that we survive. So what we really need to do to stop
70:03 So what we really need to do to stop judgment is to lower those emotions.
70:06 judgment is to lower those emotions. >> And we see this so much with Israel,
70:08 >> And we see this so much with Israel, Palestine, Democrats, Republicans,
70:11 Palestine, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, men, women,
70:12 liberals, conservatives, men, women, right? Everyone is angry. Everyone is
70:15 right? Everyone is angry. Everyone is fighting for survival. And when you
70:18 fighting for survival. And when you fight for survival, there's no room for
70:20 fight for survival, there's no room for compassion. There's no room for empathy.
70:22 compassion. There's no room for empathy. There's no room for understanding.
70:26 There's no room for understanding. So what we need to do is two things. One
70:28 So what we need to do is two things. One is if someone is coming at you really
70:30 is if someone is coming at you really hard, try to be compassionate.
70:33 hard, try to be compassionate. And this is what's really interesting.
70:34 And this is what's really interesting. You know, it's like weird like being
70:36 You know, it's like weird like being trained as a psychiatrist, like we get
70:37 trained as a psychiatrist, like we get trained in this stuff formally. It's
70:39 trained in this stuff formally. It's really hard to do. But when a patient
70:41 really hard to do. But when a patient comes into my office, you know, like and
70:44 comes into my office, you know, like and like like you're terrible and
70:45 like like you're terrible and psychiatrists are all terrible and like,
70:47 psychiatrists are all terrible and like, you know, like I hate being here and I
70:49 you know, like I hate being here and I don't need to be here and all y'all
70:51 don't need to be here and all y'all you're just trying to scam me. Like big
70:52 you're just trying to scam me. Like big pharma is paying you to fill people up
70:54 pharma is paying you to fill people up with meds. The natural reaction is like,
70:57 with meds. The natural reaction is like, "No, they're not. No, I'm not." You
70:58 "No, they're not. No, I'm not." You know, no, no, no, no, no. But I'll be
70:59 know, no, no, no, no, no. But I'll be like, "Okay, hold on a second. I can see
71:01 like, "Okay, hold on a second. I can see you're really upset, but tell me like
71:04 you're really upset, but tell me like why you hate psychiatrists so much. Like
71:06 why you hate psychiatrists so much. Like what have been your experiences? I'd
71:07 what have been your experiences? I'd really like to understand." And when
71:10 really like to understand." And when someone comes at you with hard emotional
71:11 someone comes at you with hard emotional energy, if you sort of make yourself
71:14 energy, if you sort of make yourself like water, if you kind of give them
71:16 like water, if you kind of give them that space, they kind of deflate,
71:20 that space, they kind of deflate, >> right? So, if I come at you, like I, you
71:21 >> right? So, if I come at you, like I, you know, I argue with my wife all the time,
71:23 know, I argue with my wife all the time, and if I come at her hard, like she's
71:25 and if I come at her hard, like she's done an awesome job recently of like
71:27 done an awesome job recently of like really handling my anger where I I would
71:31 really handling my anger where I I would come at her hard and she would fight
71:33 come at her hard and she would fight back, right? And if she comes at me
71:34 back, right? And if she comes at me hard, like I'll fight back. We've done a
71:36 hard, like I'll fight back. We've done a really good job of like giving each
71:38 really good job of like giving each other space. Like I get you, you're
71:40 other space. Like I get you, you're pissed. Like tell me more. Let me
71:41 pissed. Like tell me more. Let me understand. Help me understand. So don't
71:43 understand. Help me understand. So don't respond to that negative energy with
71:45 respond to that negative energy with like a negative emotional energy. It'll
71:46 like a negative emotional energy. It'll narrow your view. And for those that you
71:49 narrow your view. And for those that you judge.
71:51 judge. So So if someone is coming at you, I
71:53 So So if someone is coming at you, I think you got to cool off a little bit,
71:54 think you got to cool off a little bit, right? So and then if someone is coming
71:57 right? So and then if someone is coming at you, try to be compassionate towards
71:59 at you, try to be compassionate towards them. Now this is where a lot of people
72:00 them. Now this is where a lot of people get tripped up because they think
72:01 get tripped up because they think compassion means giving them what they
72:04 compassion means giving them what they want.
72:05 want. So sometimes people will come in will be
72:07 So sometimes people will come in will be like I need rtoolin. I need aderall. I
72:09 like I need rtoolin. I need aderall. I need it. I need it. I need it. Don't you
72:11 need it. I need it. I need it. Don't you understand doc? If you don't give me
72:12 understand doc? If you don't give me this, everything's going to fall apart
72:13 this, everything's going to fall apart and things like that. And I'm like,
72:14 and things like that. And I'm like, okay, look, I already prescribed you
72:17 okay, look, I already prescribed you once. I told you that if you lose your
72:19 once. I told you that if you lose your medication, I'm not going to prescribe
72:21 medication, I'm not going to prescribe it to you again. I totally feel that
72:23 it to you again. I totally feel that these consequences are there. I'm not
72:25 these consequences are there. I'm not going to give you more meds.
72:27 going to give you more meds. Right? But I recognize that doing that
72:29 Right? But I recognize that doing that is going to put you in a really tough
72:31 is going to put you in a really tough spot. I'm going to hold my boundary, but
72:33 spot. I'm going to hold my boundary, but with compassion.
72:35 with compassion. >> What else can I do? Do you want a
72:37 >> What else can I do? Do you want a non-stimulant medication? Do you want to
72:39 non-stimulant medication? Do you want to do some other things? Do you want me to
72:40 do some other things? Do you want me to write a letter to your professor telling
72:42 write a letter to your professor telling you that, you know, your ADHD is
72:44 you that, you know, your ADHD is particularly bad right now? I don't have
72:45 particularly bad right now? I don't have to include details of your clinical
72:47 to include details of your clinical history, but say, "Can you please give
72:48 history, but say, "Can you please give him an extension for medical reasons?
72:50 him an extension for medical reasons? I'm happy to work with you. I'm I'm
72:51 I'm happy to work with you. I'm I'm going to hold my boundary, but I'm going
72:53 going to hold my boundary, but I'm going to be as compassionate as possible."
72:56 to be as compassionate as possible." >> And what a lot of people think is that
72:58 >> And what a lot of people think is that compassion means letting people run all
73:00 compassion means letting people run all over you. That's not what it means. So
73:02 over you. That's not what it means. So you want to be compassionate but you
73:03 you want to be compassionate but you want to be stable. Now if you if you are
73:07 want to be stable. Now if you if you are feeling judgmental I think take a step
73:10 feeling judgmental I think take a step back take a breath. Also pay attention
73:12 back take a breath. Also pay attention to the way that you are indoctrinating
73:14 to the way that you are indoctrinating your mind. Right? So if we're spending a
73:17 your mind. Right? So if we're spending a lot of time on social media if we're
73:18 lot of time on social media if we're like watching like spending time in echo
73:20 like watching like spending time in echo chambers your judgment is going to be
73:22 chambers your judgment is going to be through the roof. And oftentimes if you
73:24 through the roof. And oftentimes if you are judging someone else, sit down and
73:28 are judging someone else, sit down and let them add their human context to your
73:31 let them add their human context to your projection. You think this person is
73:33 projection. You think this person is doing this and they're doing this and
73:34 doing this and they're doing this and they're like this and they're like this
73:35 they're like this and they're like this and all women are like this, all men are
73:37 and all women are like this, all men are like this. No, that I don't know about
73:38 like this. No, that I don't know about all men or all women, but this human
73:40 all men or all women, but this human being is not all of those things.
73:42 being is not all of those things. >> They're a unique human being. And as you
73:46 >> They're a unique human being. And as you train yourself, and it ain't easy. This
73:49 train yourself, and it ain't easy. This is where doing some emotional regulation
73:51 is where doing some emotional regulation practices and things like that like
73:52 practices and things like that like nadish pranayam and activating your
73:54 nadish pranayam and activating your parasympathetic nervous system and
73:56 parasympathetic nervous system and stuff. We have a guide to meditation
73:57 stuff. We have a guide to meditation that's all about that kind of stuff but
73:59 that's all about that kind of stuff but I'm sure you're familiar with you know
74:00 I'm sure you're familiar with you know alternate nostal breathing and things.
74:02 alternate nostal breathing and things. Um so as you do those kinds of things
74:05 Um so as you do those kinds of things and you like emotionally regulate as you
74:06 and you like emotionally regulate as you calm down then you'll be able to do that
74:08 calm down then you'll be able to do that but that requires a lot of energy and
74:10 but that requires a lot of energy and effort like you're spot on. Reacting is
74:12 effort like you're spot on. Reacting is really easy. one of the most
74:16 really easy. one of the most draining things. So, if you look at
74:17 draining things. So, if you look at willpower as a battery, one of the top
74:19 willpower as a battery, one of the top drainers of willpower is regulating your
74:21 drainers of willpower is regulating your emotions. It is the most emotionally
74:23 emotions. It is the most emotionally taxing thing you can do. So, it's hard,
74:26 taxing thing you can do. So, it's hard, >> but then you'll get better at it.
74:27 >> but then you'll get better at it. >> That's a brilliant answer. The idea that
74:30 >> That's a brilliant answer. The idea that anxiety, anger, and fear narrow your
74:34 anxiety, anger, and fear narrow your viewpoint and therefore don't give you
74:36 viewpoint and therefore don't give you the ability to see everything else in
74:38 the ability to see everything else in the context around it is such a such a
74:43 the context around it is such a such a useful lesson to know why that's
74:45 useful lesson to know why that's happening and how to regulate it. And
74:47 happening and how to regulate it. And I'm thinking about talking about your
74:48 I'm thinking about talking about your wife. I was thinking about something
74:50 wife. I was thinking about something with my wife. She sent me an idea
74:51 with my wife. She sent me an idea recently for a new venture that she
74:54 recently for a new venture that she wanted to start.
74:56 wanted to start. And in my head, all the fear and anxiety
74:58 And in my head, all the fear and anxiety went off. And I messaged back and I was
75:00 went off. And I messaged back and I was like, "Yeah, no, but I don't think it's
75:02 like, "Yeah, no, but I don't think it's going to work." Like, you know, she just
75:03 going to work." Like, you know, she just shared an idea. She' I'm really excited
75:04 shared an idea. She' I'm really excited about this. And my response was like,
75:06 about this. And my response was like, "Yeah, I don't think that's going to
75:07 "Yeah, I don't think that's going to work. And here are all the reasons why
75:08 work. And here are all the reasons why it's not going to work. And maybe we can
75:09 it's not going to work. And maybe we can do it in like 5 years." Like all this
75:11 do it in like 5 years." Like all this stuff. And then again, my yeah, my
75:13 stuff. And then again, my yeah, my wife's amazing at this. And she just
75:14 wife's amazing at this. And she just called me out in the most compassionate,
75:16 called me out in the most compassionate, loving way. And she was just like, "Hey,
75:17 loving way. And she was just like, "Hey, I was just sharing something I was
75:18 I was just sharing something I was excited about. I wasn't saying we have
75:20 excited about. I wasn't saying we have to do it. I wasn't saying we need to do
75:21 to do it. I wasn't saying we need to do it. And I I would have just loved for
75:23 it. And I I would have just loved for you to just at least hear my idea out."
75:25 you to just at least hear my idea out." Yeah,
75:25 Yeah, >> right.
75:28 >> right. Tell me what you're excited about. And
75:30 Tell me what you're excited about. And it's so interesting because I would
75:33 it's so interesting because I would generally do that in that moment. My
75:35 generally do that in that moment. My anxiet the reason why I didn't I'm now
75:37 anxiet the reason why I didn't I'm now reflecting back
75:38 reflecting back >> was my anxiety, my fear, my uh there
75:41 >> was my anxiety, my fear, my uh there wasn't any anger, but my anxiety and
75:43 wasn't any anger, but my anxiety and fear were high.
75:44 fear were high. >> Yeah.
75:44 >> Yeah. >> And therefore, my response was not
75:47 >> And therefore, my response was not helpful. And therefore, if my wife had
75:50 helpful. And therefore, if my wife had not been as involved as she is, then we
75:52 not been as involved as she is, then we would have just had a full-blown
75:53 would have just had a full-blown argument about nothing. Yeah. The one
75:55 argument about nothing. Yeah. The one thing that really shocks me is how much
75:58 thing that really shocks me is how much yogic training and psychiatry training
76:04 yogic training and psychiatry training don't prepare me to be a good husband.
76:06 don't prepare me to be a good husband. >> That's a great
76:07 >> That's a great >> like being a good husband and a father
76:10 >> like being a good husband and a father actually. So like
76:11 actually. So like >> But it does prepare you. It's just we're
76:12 >> But it does prepare you. It's just we're not I mean so that's that's the crazy
76:14 not I mean so that's that's the crazy thing man. And I think like I I thought
76:16 thing man. And I think like I I thought I was like, "Oh, I got this stuff on on
76:18 I was like, "Oh, I got this stuff on on lockdown, you know, like I'm yogi and
76:20 lockdown, you know, like I'm yogi and I'm doctor. Like great, it's going to be
76:22 I'm doctor. Like great, it's going to be No, it's like it's really hard.
76:25 No, it's like it's really hard. >> Yeah. Like my my wife brings out like
76:27 >> Yeah. Like my my wife brings out like some of my worst tendencies and I really
76:29 some of my worst tendencies and I really have to work on it."
76:31 have to work on it." >> And she's awesome. It's like I turn into
76:32 >> And she's awesome. It's like I turn into a different person around her in like
76:34 a different person around her in like not a good way.
76:35 not a good way. >> Yeah.
76:35 >> Yeah. >> You know,
76:36 >> You know, >> and and so I think that's also healthy
76:38 >> and and so I think that's also healthy in a sense because she's not a patient
76:39 in a sense because she's not a patient of mine. She's not like a client or
76:41 of mine. She's not like a client or someone in a meditation class or
76:42 someone in a meditation class or whatever. And when I go into
76:43 whatever. And when I go into psychiatrist mode, it pisses her off a
76:45 psychiatrist mode, it pisses her off a lot of course. Like, oh, tell me how you
76:47 lot of course. Like, oh, tell me how you feel. It's like,
76:48 feel. It's like, >> yeah, don't tell me it doesn't work on
76:50 >> yeah, don't tell me it doesn't work on me.
76:50 me. >> Yeah. So, I think it's it's it's hard
76:52 >> Yeah. So, I think it's it's it's hard for everyone, myself included, and it's
76:54 for everyone, myself included, and it's been shocking like how much you really
76:55 been shocking like how much you really have to train like I have to train
76:57 have to train like I have to train myself like every single day to try to
76:59 myself like every single day to try to be a better husband.
77:01 be a better husband. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think because that's
77:03 >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think because that's I I think it's so common that the person
77:05 I I think it's so common that the person that you love the most in the world
77:08 that you love the most in the world sadly gets to see the worst of you.
77:10 sadly gets to see the worst of you. Absolutely, man. the totality of you,
77:12 Absolutely, man. the totality of you, the the 360deree view of you. And and
77:15 the the 360deree view of you. And and there's a beauty to that, too, because
77:17 there's a beauty to that, too, because you feel you can show it to them. You
77:19 you feel you can show it to them. You you can't show that to anyone else. And
77:21 you can't show that to anyone else. And obviously, we don't want, again, I'm not
77:23 obviously, we don't want, again, I'm not encouraging or condoning physical,
77:25 encouraging or condoning physical, verbal abuse in any way, and that's not
77:27 verbal abuse in any way, and that's not what I mean. But there's a beauty in
77:29 what I mean. But there's a beauty in being able to show your full self to
77:31 being able to show your full self to someone with the vulnerability of it, as
77:33 someone with the vulnerability of it, as long as it's not harming them.
77:35 long as it's not harming them. >> Yeah. and for them to help you with it
77:36 >> Yeah. and for them to help you with it and for you to help them back. That's
77:38 and for you to help them back. That's why I think that is that one
77:40 why I think that is that one relationship. I don't I don't think
77:41 relationship. I don't I don't think anyone knows me better than my wife.
77:42 anyone knows me better than my wife. >> Yeah.
77:42 >> Yeah. >> It's the only person who knows what
77:44 >> It's the only person who knows what you're doing at 6:00 a.m. and what
77:46 you're doing at 6:00 a.m. and what you're doing at midnight and you know
77:47 you're doing at midnight and you know everything else in between. And so it's
77:49 everything else in between. And so it's beautiful. But I wanted to touch on
77:53 beautiful. But I wanted to touch on something with you that I wanted to talk
77:54 something with you that I wanted to talk to you about actually because I've I've
77:56 to you about actually because I've I've watched so many of interviews and I've
77:57 watched so many of interviews and I've been today's my my intention and my
77:59 been today's my my intention and my focus has been to really mind that
78:02 focus has been to really mind that spiritual clinician side in you and to
78:04 spiritual clinician side in you and to and to find some of that maybe more
78:07 and to find some of that maybe more ethereal stuff which which you're such a
78:09 ethereal stuff which which you're such a deep expert in as well because I think
78:11 deep expert in as well because I think the two complement each other so
78:13 the two complement each other so wonderfully in your expertise. What is
78:15 wonderfully in your expertise. What is that spiritual evolution that's being
78:17 that spiritual evolution that's being demanded of humanity right now? When you
78:20 demanded of humanity right now? When you mentioned it earlier, you like we've
78:21 mentioned it earlier, you like we've kind of reached the peak of our material
78:23 kind of reached the peak of our material evolution based on ego development. What
78:26 evolution based on ego development. What is the spiritual evolution that's that
78:28 is the spiritual evolution that's that we're being invited to?
78:29 we're being invited to? >> Yeah. So, I I think um this is where
78:31 >> Yeah. So, I I think um this is where like I got to start with a big
78:33 like I got to start with a big disclaimer. So, I think this is where
78:34 disclaimer. So, I think this is where like we're talking about spiritual
78:36 like we're talking about spiritual evolution which is not clear whether
78:37 evolution which is not clear whether this stuff even exists from a scientific
78:39 this stuff even exists from a scientific perspective. So I may touch on studies
78:41 perspective. So I may touch on studies and things like that on neuroscience and
78:43 and things like that on neuroscience and meditation and brain changes. So there's
78:45 meditation and brain changes. So there's some evidence of this stuff, but there's
78:47 some evidence of this stuff, but there's a lot of stuff in the spiritual
78:49 a lot of stuff in the spiritual traditions
78:51 traditions which there's no scientific evidence
78:53 which there's no scientific evidence for. So before I even started med
78:55 for. So before I even started med school, I was in a
78:57 school, I was in a >> Yeah. Yet
78:58 >> Yeah. Yet >> I was in a Taichi lab, a neuroscience
79:00 >> I was in a Taichi lab, a neuroscience taichi lab at at Harvard. And so we were
79:02 taichi lab at at Harvard. And so we were trying to understand this like concept
79:04 trying to understand this like concept ofqi or brana or life energy. And so the
79:07 ofqi or brana or life energy. And so the really interesting thing about this kind
79:09 really interesting thing about this kind of stuff is that there's no scientific
79:11 of stuff is that there's no scientific evidence that it exists.
79:14 evidence that it exists. But when you do a practice
79:18 But when you do a practice that supposedly activates this stuff, it
79:21 that supposedly activates this stuff, it outperforms physical exercise like yoga
79:24 outperforms physical exercise like yoga for example, right? Or taichi. So we
79:26 for example, right? Or taichi. So we were studying Taichi. And so there seems
79:28 were studying Taichi. And so there seems to be like something where like the
79:29 to be like something where like the health benefit is greater than physical
79:31 health benefit is greater than physical exercise, but we can't really detect.
79:33 exercise, but we can't really detect. What are you measuring to know that it's
79:35 What are you measuring to know that it's greater than physical exercise?
79:36 greater than physical exercise? >> I mean, it depends. So, uh you know, one
79:38 >> I mean, it depends. So, uh you know, one of my early mentors was um uh Dr. Wong
79:42 of my early mentors was um uh Dr. Wong would has a great paper in the New
79:43 would has a great paper in the New England Journal of Medicine on Taichi
79:45 England Journal of Medicine on Taichi and arthritis. So, she's just measuring
79:48 and arthritis. So, she's just measuring the improvement of arthritis if I give
79:51 the improvement of arthritis if I give Taichi, if I do exercise, and Taichi is
79:53 Taichi, if I do exercise, and Taichi is superior. So, I was trying to study the
79:56 superior. So, I was trying to study the mechanism of that and the mechanism is
79:58 mechanism of that and the mechanism is is super interesting. So, I was in a
80:00 is super interesting. So, I was in a chronic pain lab. And the really
80:02 chronic pain lab. And the really interesting thing about chronic pain is
80:04 interesting thing about chronic pain is that it locks your brain into like one
80:07 that it locks your brain into like one part of your body. So, someone who has
80:10 part of your body. So, someone who has chronic pain, they're always thinking
80:12 chronic pain, they're always thinking about what hurts.
80:13 about what hurts. >> Yeah, that's so true. And and then what
80:15 >> Yeah, that's so true. And and then what happens when we do yoga or ta chi is
80:17 happens when we do yoga or ta chi is that we're putting our body in different
80:19 that we're putting our body in different places to where if I'm like if I'm
80:21 places to where if I'm like if I'm standing on one leg and twisting myself
80:22 standing on one leg and twisting myself into a pretzel, my brain is focusing on
80:25 into a pretzel, my brain is focusing on other parts of my body. And that trains
80:27 other parts of my body. And that trains my brain to move away from
80:31 my brain to move away from the hurting part. And then once I move
80:34 the hurting part. And then once I move away from the hurting part, then I feel
80:37 away from the hurting part, then I feel it less. And so the pain actually feels
80:40 it less. And so the pain actually feels better.
80:41 better. >> And this is also what we do mentally
80:42 >> And this is also what we do mentally with yoga and stuff. It's like, let me
80:44 with yoga and stuff. It's like, let me move away from this ruminative thinking.
80:47 move away from this ruminative thinking. Let me return my attention to the
80:48 Let me return my attention to the breath. So, you're literally training
80:50 breath. So, you're literally training your brain to do what you tell it to.
80:52 your brain to do what you tell it to. >> Well, it's it's just what you said right
80:53 >> Well, it's it's just what you said right at the beginning, which was thinking
80:54 at the beginning, which was thinking about yourself versus paying attention.
80:56 about yourself versus paying attention. >> Absolutely. Right. So, it the beautiful
80:57 >> Absolutely. Right. So, it the beautiful thing about yoga and taichi is that they
80:59 thing about yoga and taichi is that they force you to observe yourself.
81:02 force you to observe yourself. >> Cuz once you stand on one leg, so you
81:04 >> Cuz once you stand on one leg, so you can do a simple like So, I'll challenge
81:07 can do a simple like So, I'll challenge everybody in your audience to just raise
81:08 everybody in your audience to just raise their arm. That's it. I just want them
81:10 their arm. That's it. I just want them to raise their arm and we're just going
81:11 to raise their arm and we're just going to continue talking. Okay? We're just
81:13 to continue talking. Okay? We're just going to have a conversation and over
81:15 going to have a conversation and over time what's going to happen. You don't
81:16 time what's going to happen. You don't have to do it
81:17 have to do it >> because I want to converse with you. You
81:18 >> because I want to converse with you. You won't be able to converse, right? So
81:20 won't be able to converse, right? So people are going to pay attention if
81:21 people are going to pay attention if they're still doing it and then the
81:22 they're still doing it and then the longer we go they're not going to be
81:24 longer we go they're not going to be able to hear anything we're saying. We
81:25 able to hear anything we're saying. We are forcing our attention over here.
81:27 are forcing our attention over here. >> So the change of our attention becomes
81:29 >> So the change of our attention becomes really really important.
81:31 really really important. >> Anyway, I was talking about Tai Chi and
81:33 >> Anyway, I was talking about Tai Chi and chronic pain but you asked a question
81:34 chronic pain but you asked a question about phys physical and spiritual
81:36 about phys physical and spiritual evolution. So the first thing to
81:37 evolution. So the first thing to understand is why have we stopped phys
81:39 understand is why have we stopped phys physically evolving? because we started
81:41 physically evolving? because we started shaping our environment.
81:42 shaping our environment. >> Mhm.
81:43 >> Mhm. >> So evolution happens in order for us to
81:46 >> So evolution happens in order for us to adapt to our environment. But once I
81:50 adapt to our environment. But once I start building cars, creating air
81:52 start building cars, creating air conditioning, having cell phones, what
81:55 conditioning, having cell phones, what we are doing is we are shaping our
81:56 we are doing is we are shaping our environment to let whatever I am now
82:00 environment to let whatever I am now continue to exist this way. I don't need
82:01 continue to exist this way. I don't need to grow. Right? If I shape my
82:03 to grow. Right? If I shape my environment around me, if I'm a
82:04 environment around me, if I'm a narcissist and I surround myself by
82:07 narcissist and I surround myself by people who will say, "Yes, you're great.
82:09 people who will say, "Yes, you're great. You're great. You're great." I will
82:10 You're great. You're great." I will never need to conquer that narcissism.
82:13 never need to conquer that narcissism. So I think there's a couple of things
82:14 So I think there's a couple of things going on in terms of spiritual evolution
82:17 going on in terms of spiritual evolution and those things are
82:20 and those things are somewhat reliable to completely crazy.
82:22 somewhat reliable to completely crazy. So like take this with a grain of salt.
82:24 So like take this with a grain of salt. So I think the first thing is that first
82:26 So I think the first thing is that first stage of spiritual evolution is that
82:28 stage of spiritual evolution is that since we're shaping our environment in
82:30 since we're shaping our environment in this way, our environment is making lots
82:32 this way, our environment is making lots of changes to our brain and lots of
82:34 of changes to our brain and lots of changes to our mind. So this is why we
82:36 changes to our mind. So this is why we have a mental health crisis. Like it's
82:38 have a mental health crisis. Like it's so weird, right? Science is progressing.
82:40 so weird, right? Science is progressing. We have more neuroscience papers than
82:42 We have more neuroscience papers than ever before. We have so many fMRI labs
82:44 ever before. We have so many fMRI labs and things like that. Our understanding
82:46 and things like that. Our understanding of the brain and the mind is increasing,
82:48 of the brain and the mind is increasing, but people are getting worse. So the
82:51 but people are getting worse. So the next stage of evolution that we need in
82:53 next stage of evolution that we need in your own life, I use the word loosely,
82:56 your own life, I use the word loosely, but maybe not so much, but is actually
82:58 but maybe not so much, but is actually like evolving your mind, right? And I
83:01 like evolving your mind, right? And I know that sounds kind of weird. evolving
83:03 know that sounds kind of weird. evolving your brain like like learning how to
83:05 your brain like like learning how to change yourself which is what evolution
83:07 change yourself which is what evolution is to survive and thrive in this level
83:11 is to survive and thrive in this level of the world around us. So this is
83:12 of the world around us. So this is starts with stuff like ego like we
83:14 starts with stuff like ego like we talked about emotional regulation not
83:16 talked about emotional regulation not letting these some scars or emotional
83:18 letting these some scars or emotional baggage pile up. You have to do a ton of
83:20 baggage pile up. You have to do a ton of mental training to survive in today's
83:23 mental training to survive in today's world. Then there's like other weird
83:25 world. Then there's like other weird things going on. So like the other weird
83:27 things going on. So like the other weird stuff is like when you start talk more
83:29 stuff is like when you start talk more about these spiritual traditions. So,
83:32 about these spiritual traditions. So, weird stuff.
83:34 weird stuff. There's a study that was done on DMT
83:37 There's a study that was done on DMT that 92%
83:40 that 92% of DMT users will encounter other
83:43 of DMT users will encounter other worldly beings.
83:45 worldly beings. >> Now, we have no scientific evidence of
83:47 >> Now, we have no scientific evidence of this except I think this is kind of
83:50 this except I think this is kind of could be argued as scientific evidence.
83:51 could be argued as scientific evidence. I'm not saying it's it's it's complete
83:53 I'm not saying it's it's it's complete evidence, but now what we have is we
83:55 evidence, but now what we have is we have something like a telescope where if
83:56 have something like a telescope where if I if I like look through a te or a
83:58 I if I like look through a te or a microscope, if I look through a
83:59 microscope, if I look through a microscope and I see a lot a lot of
84:01 microscope and I see a lot a lot of bacteria, you can't see that with the
84:02 bacteria, you can't see that with the naked eye. But if I use this technology,
84:05 naked eye. But if I use this technology, I can see something that my normal
84:07 I can see something that my normal perception cannot allow me to see.
84:10 perception cannot allow me to see. So I think what we're starting to do
84:11 So I think what we're starting to do with meditation is this is a this is a
84:14 with meditation is this is a this is a spiritual technology and there are some
84:16 spiritual technology and there are some meditation techniques that will give you
84:19 meditation techniques that will give you insight into your past lives that has
84:21 insight into your past lives that has been very helpful for some of my
84:23 been very helpful for some of my patients with trauma that they have this
84:25 patients with trauma that they have this trauma that doesn't come from this life.
84:26 trauma that doesn't come from this life. It actually like seems like it sort of
84:28 It actually like seems like it sort of comes from a past life. I can go into
84:30 comes from a past life. I can go into detail. I know it's unbelievable. But
84:31 detail. I know it's unbelievable. But there's a great uh researcher out of the
84:33 there's a great uh researcher out of the University of Virginia who's been
84:34 University of Virginia who's been looking at like past life research.
84:36 looking at like past life research. Occasionally some crazy scientists will
84:38 Occasionally some crazy scientists will get into the stuff. So I I think that we
84:40 get into the stuff. So I I think that we we are sort of being able to detect
84:44 we are sort of being able to detect things that are kind of beyond it. And I
84:47 things that are kind of beyond it. And I think this is where things get kind of
84:48 think this is where things get kind of weird, but like it's so strange, but if
84:50 weird, but like it's so strange, but if I was talking to a bunch of my friends
84:52 I was talking to a bunch of my friends who are neuroscientists or neurologists
84:54 who are neuroscientists or neurologists and I was asking them, what proof do we
84:56 and I was asking them, what proof do we have that thoughts exist from a
84:58 have that thoughts exist from a scientific perspective? We have none. We
85:00 scientific perspective? We have none. We can't detect thoughts, right? We can
85:03 can't detect thoughts, right? We can What does an fMRI or an EEG detect? EEG
85:06 What does an fMRI or an EEG detect? EEG detects electrical activity in the
85:08 detects electrical activity in the brain. fMRI detects blood flow. Neither
85:10 brain. fMRI detects blood flow. Neither of those things are thoughts. So, it's
85:12 of those things are thoughts. So, it's kind of weird, but we have no proof of
85:14 kind of weird, but we have no proof of the existence of thought. So, I was
85:15 the existence of thought. So, I was trying to figure out, okay, what's going
85:16 trying to figure out, okay, what's going on then scientifically? Some people
85:18 on then scientifically? Some people think it's like imagination.
85:20 think it's like imagination. >> I think what's going on is that there's
85:22 >> I think what's going on is that there's a certain realm of human experience
85:25 a certain realm of human experience which we can't detect with an instrument
85:28 which we can't detect with an instrument yet.
85:28 yet. >> So, this is subjective experience. It's
85:30 >> So, this is subjective experience. It's consciousness. It's thinking. And so I
85:33 consciousness. It's thinking. And so I think that we don't have a measurement
85:37 think that we don't have a measurement of consciousness, but that doesn't mean
85:38 of consciousness, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This is where a lot of
85:40 it doesn't exist. This is where a lot of people I think disagree with me. So some
85:42 people I think disagree with me. So some people will say since we can't detect it
85:44 people will say since we can't detect it scientifically, that means it doesn't
85:45 scientifically, that means it doesn't exist. I think that human beings can
85:47 exist. I think that human beings can observe it. It's a conserved human
85:49 observe it. It's a conserved human experience. We everyone can observe
85:50 experience. We everyone can observe their own thinking. I think it exists.
85:52 their own thinking. I think it exists. We just haven't developed the ruler for
85:56 We just haven't developed the ruler for consciousness yet. Mhm.
85:58 consciousness yet. Mhm. >> So the other area of spiritual evolution
86:00 >> So the other area of spiritual evolution is to evolve your consciousness. So to
86:04 is to evolve your consciousness. So to take your conscious experience, use some
86:06 take your conscious experience, use some of these more esoteric meditation
86:08 of these more esoteric meditation techniques which is usually how this is
86:09 techniques which is usually how this is done like condundalini sadena and stuff
86:12 done like condundalini sadena and stuff like that. So as you do these weird kind
86:14 like that. So as you do these weird kind of like chakra sadas and stuff like that
86:16 of like chakra sadas and stuff like that you will start to have it's hard to
86:19 you will start to have it's hard to describe a change in your subjective
86:21 describe a change in your subjective experience of the world.
86:23 experience of the world. >> Mh. So, as I move through the world,
86:25 >> Mh. So, as I move through the world, right, I I try, but I also like start to
86:28 right, I I try, but I also like start to see, okay, bad stuff happens to me. I'm
86:29 see, okay, bad stuff happens to me. I'm not so worried about it anymore. This is
86:31 not so worried about it anymore. This is a negative karma. That's sort of the
86:33 a negative karma. That's sort of the logical way to explain it, but that's
86:35 logical way to explain it, but that's not how it feels on the inside.
86:37 not how it feels on the inside. >> So, I recognize that there are periods
86:38 >> So, I recognize that there are periods of my my life where like negative
86:40 of my my life where like negative karmmas are manifesting. So, I'm like,
86:42 karmmas are manifesting. So, I'm like, let them come. Let them come. Let them
86:43 let them come. Let them come. Let them come. Like, I'm going to work through
86:44 come. Like, I'm going to work through it. I have to work through this stuff.
86:46 it. I have to work through this stuff. There's some kind of bad energy out
86:47 There's some kind of bad energy out there. And I realize how indefensible
86:49 there. And I realize how indefensible that is. But I really think that's
86:51 that is. But I really think that's what's going on. And so a lot of people
86:53 what's going on. And so a lot of people are are needing to evolve. They're
86:55 are are needing to evolve. They're hungry for this evolution. They're
86:57 hungry for this evolution. They're hungry for like this world around me.
87:01 hungry for like this world around me. Even if we talk about growth and goals
87:04 Even if we talk about growth and goals and ambitions, this is not satisfying.
87:07 and ambitions, this is not satisfying. They need to grow in a different
87:09 They need to grow in a different dimension. And I don't mean that like oh
87:10 dimension. And I don't mean that like oh there's like alternate I mean like there
87:12 there's like alternate I mean like there is material growth there is professional
87:14 is material growth there is professional growth there is academic growth and
87:15 growth there is academic growth and there is growth just within you to be
87:18 there is growth just within you to be able to experience different kinds of
87:20 able to experience different kinds of things to be able to understand like how
87:23 things to be able to understand like how you connect to other people that's a
87:25 you connect to other people that's a level of spiritual evolution
87:27 level of spiritual evolution >> and when I work with my patients what I
87:29 >> and when I work with my patients what I oftentimes you know will start with is
87:31 oftentimes you know will start with is like meditations to help them treat
87:34 like meditations to help them treat depression but eventually it's like okay
87:36 depression but eventually it's like okay if you're depressed because you know you
87:38 if you're depressed because you know you think you're a loser. Let's see if we
87:41 think you're a loser. Let's see if we can cultivate an experience of
87:45 can cultivate an experience of cosmic connectedness. And if you have
87:47 cosmic connectedness. And if you have that experience, and this is also what
87:49 that experience, and this is also what we know from psychedelics,
87:51 we know from psychedelics, you can use a psychedelic that's not
87:52 you can use a psychedelic that's not healing. Specifically, you can ask
87:54 healing. Specifically, you can ask someone what happened to you when you
87:56 someone what happened to you when you were using a psychedelic. If they had an
87:59 were using a psychedelic. If they had an ego death experience, that correlates
88:02 ego death experience, that correlates with treatment improvement in treatment
88:03 with treatment improvement in treatment refractory depression. that improvement
88:06 refractory depression. that improvement uh that correlates with improvement in
88:08 uh that correlates with improvement in trauma. But if all you see is colors and
88:10 trauma. But if all you see is colors and synesthesia and stuff like that,
88:12 synesthesia and stuff like that, clinical symptoms don't appear to get
88:13 clinical symptoms don't appear to get better.
88:15 better. >> And this is what we know from our
88:17 >> And this is what we know from our traditions, right? Is like as you have
88:18 traditions, right? Is like as you have these higher senses of consciousness,
88:20 these higher senses of consciousness, the aamara, the ego starts to dissolve.
88:23 the aamara, the ego starts to dissolve. Your atman blends with the cosmic soul.
88:27 Your atman blends with the cosmic soul. And like we can sort of duplicate that
88:29 And like we can sort of duplicate that in a lab now at least the subjective
88:31 in a lab now at least the subjective experience of it. Then that gets to the
88:34 experience of it. Then that gets to the question of is that subjective
88:35 question of is that subjective experience real or not? I think it's
88:36 experience real or not? I think it's absolutely functionally useful. We can
88:38 absolutely functionally useful. We can detect the change. We can detect the
88:40 detect the change. We can detect the health benefit in it. So I think that
88:41 health benefit in it. So I think that spiritual evolution that we're seeing is
88:43 spiritual evolution that we're seeing is like at the level of consciousness. And
88:45 like at the level of consciousness. And hopefully I've tried to explain that in
88:47 hopefully I've tried to explain that in a somewhat mechanistic or technical way.
88:49 a somewhat mechanistic or technical way. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fascinating.
88:51 >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fascinating. >> I also think this is where I get really
88:53 >> I also think this is where I get really weird. I think it's weird, but if you
88:54 weird. I think it's weird, but if you look at the world, we're all moving in
88:56 look at the world, we're all moving in this direction.
88:57 this direction. >> Mhm.
88:58 >> Mhm. >> Like meditation is exploding, right? we
89:01 >> Like meditation is exploding, right? we have like you know champions of it like
89:04 have like you know champions of it like you and you've spread a lot of knowledge
89:05 you and you've spread a lot of knowledge about it like something weird is going
89:07 about it like something weird is going on where from a scientific perspective
89:09 on where from a scientific perspective it makes sense that we have all these
89:10 it makes sense that we have all these like technology things and we need some
89:12 like technology things and we need some kind of antidote to that from a
89:14 kind of antidote to that from a neurochemical perspective I think that
89:15 neurochemical perspective I think that makes sense but I do feel like we're all
89:18 makes sense but I do feel like we're all being called to meditate more
89:20 being called to meditate more >> yeah but then going back to that mental
89:22 >> yeah but then going back to that mental training point that we all have
89:25 training point that we all have it goes back to that same point that you
89:27 it goes back to that same point that you brought up earlier we're all being
89:28 brought up earlier we're all being called to do this but then we struggle
89:29 called to do this but then we struggle to do
89:30 to do and we can't. We try once, we let go. We
89:34 and we can't. We try once, we let go. We know we need to work out. Everyone knows
89:36 know we need to work out. Everyone knows they need 10,000 steps a day. We don't
89:37 they need 10,000 steps a day. We don't get 10,000 steps a day. Everyone knows
89:39 get 10,000 steps a day. Everyone knows they need to eat better, but we're
89:41 they need to eat better, but we're still, you know, making all the fast
89:43 still, you know, making all the fast food companies rich and wealthier.
89:46 food companies rich and wealthier. What's the disconnect there?
89:48 What's the disconnect there? So, I think the biggest disconnect is
89:51 So, I think the biggest disconnect is information doesn't change behavior.
89:55 information doesn't change behavior. So like you know I had a patient once
89:57 So like you know I had a patient once this was bad but I had a patient once
89:59 this was bad but I had a patient once who was I was a medical student and so
90:01 who was I was a medical student and so they come in and and they smoke and I
90:03 they come in and and they smoke and I try to tell him hey so like smoking will
90:05 try to tell him hey so like smoking will give you lung cancer smoking will give
90:07 give you lung cancer smoking will give you heart disease and he's like yeah doc
90:09 you heart disease and he's like yeah doc I know and I was like I'm a medical
90:10 I know and I was like I'm a medical student. He's like yeah I know but
90:11 student. He's like yeah I know but you're a doc basically. He's like yeah
90:13 you're a doc basically. He's like yeah doc I know. He's like I'll stop. I'll
90:16 doc I know. He's like I'll stop. I'll quit. I promise. Comes in a month later.
90:18 quit. I promise. Comes in a month later. How's your smoking? Oh yeah I know I'm
90:19 How's your smoking? Oh yeah I know I'm supposed to. It's not working. And I was
90:20 supposed to. It's not working. And I was like okay maybe you want some medication
90:22 like okay maybe you want some medication for that. And he's like, "Sure, doc.
90:23 for that. And he's like, "Sure, doc. Give you the medication." Comes in a
90:25 Give you the medication." Comes in a month later. Are you taking the
90:26 month later. Are you taking the medication? Not really. Okay, let's give
90:28 medication? Not really. Okay, let's give you like let's try nicotine gum. Like,
90:30 you like let's try nicotine gum. Like, let's try this. He's not doing it. Not
90:32 let's try this. He's not doing it. Not doing it. Not doing it. So, I was, you
90:34 doing it. Not doing it. So, I was, you know, working with my preceptor and I
90:36 know, working with my preceptor and I read some about addiction and and things
90:37 read some about addiction and and things like that and I realized like you have
90:39 like that and I realized like you have to, you know, have to motivate him. And
90:41 to, you know, have to motivate him. And so, the next time he comes in, I take a
90:43 so, the next time he comes in, I take a different approach. I'm like, "So, tell
90:45 different approach. I'm like, "So, tell me about yourself. Tell me about you
90:46 me about yourself. Tell me about you know, what you're excited about." And
90:48 know, what you're excited about." And he's like, "You know, I love being a
90:49 he's like, "You know, I love being a father. I have three daughters and you
90:52 father. I have three daughters and you know I'll die happy the moment that the
90:54 know I'll die happy the moment that the last one is married because I I know
90:55 last one is married because I I know they're being taken care of and it's
90:57 they're being taken care of and it's going to be such a great day day. Like
90:59 going to be such a great day day. Like my oldest daughter is married. It was
91:00 my oldest daughter is married. It was awesome. Like walking her down the aisle
91:02 awesome. Like walking her down the aisle was one of the best experiences I've
91:03 was one of the best experiences I've ever had. And I ask him, "Oh, great.
91:07 ever had. And I ask him, "Oh, great. When your when your second daughter gets
91:09 When your when your second daughter gets married, do you want to be wheeling an
91:11 married, do you want to be wheeling an oxygen tank behind you? And do you want
91:12 oxygen tank behind you? And do you want to be pushed in a wheelchair when your
91:15 to be pushed in a wheelchair when your third daughter gets married?" And he was
91:17 third daughter gets married?" And he was like, "No." Right? Like I said something
91:19 like, "No." Right? Like I said something that was so mean and I was like that's
91:20 that was so mean and I was like that's what's going to happen if you don't stop
91:22 what's going to happen if you don't stop smoking. And so that was brutal. I
91:25 smoking. And so that was brutal. I wouldn't recommend it. I was still
91:26 wouldn't recommend it. I was still learning. I was still a medical student.
91:28 learning. I was still a medical student. But I think a lot of behavioral change
91:31 But I think a lot of behavioral change comes from
91:33 comes from like motivation within. You have to have
91:34 like motivation within. You have to have a good reason to do it. Not in in like
91:37 a good reason to do it. Not in in like an intellectual like oh this is like I'm
91:39 an intellectual like oh this is like I'm not going to get cancer 40 years from
91:40 not going to get cancer 40 years from now. Your brain doesn't understand. So
91:42 now. Your brain doesn't understand. So this is what people don't get. When I
91:44 this is what people don't get. When I tell you like do this or you'll get
91:46 tell you like do this or you'll get cancer. How does your brain
91:50 cancer. How does your brain know what cancer feels like? So if you
91:53 know what cancer feels like? So if you touch a hot pan,
91:55 touch a hot pan, your brain knows. They're like, "Okay."
91:56 your brain knows. They're like, "Okay." And then it's hard to touch a hot pan.
91:58 And then it's hard to touch a hot pan. >> Mhm.
91:59 >> Mhm. >> But how does your brain know this like
92:00 >> But how does your brain know this like hypothetical thing? It doesn't. So
92:03 hypothetical thing? It doesn't. So information goes into this one part of
92:05 information goes into this one part of our brain that really doesn't shape our
92:06 our brain that really doesn't shape our behavior. What shapes our behavior is
92:08 behavior. What shapes our behavior is emotions. So if you think about when you
92:10 emotions. So if you think about when you get angry, then everyone's telling you
92:13 get angry, then everyone's telling you not to act.
92:14 not to act. >> Mhm.
92:15 >> Mhm. >> Stop. Slow down. Don't act. the but when
92:17 >> Stop. Slow down. Don't act. the but when you get angry you feel like acting. M
92:19 you get angry you feel like acting. M >> so the first thing is that we need to
92:20 >> so the first thing is that we need to focus more on finding like our right
92:23 focus more on finding like our right like the right emotional reason like
92:26 like the right emotional reason like what is the reason for your change what
92:28 what is the reason for your change what really drives you to change the more you
92:30 really drives you to change the more you connect with that then the information
92:31 connect with that then the information will become useful there's another
92:34 will become useful there's another really interesting
92:35 really interesting >> such a great answer man that's awesome
92:38 >> such a great answer man that's awesome >> so great
92:39 >> so great >> one other thing that I would say is a
92:40 >> one other thing that I would say is a lot of people don't realize I don't know
92:42 lot of people don't realize I don't know if this makes sense but there's
92:43 if this makes sense but there's something called ambivalence which is
92:44 something called ambivalence which is when we're internally conflicted and
92:46 when we're internally conflicted and anytime somebody wants to change.
92:49 anytime somebody wants to change. There's a part of us that wants to
92:50 There's a part of us that wants to change, but there's a part of us that
92:51 change, but there's a part of us that doesn't want to change.
92:52 doesn't want to change. >> Yeah.
92:53 >> Yeah. >> So, when we want to change, I tend to
92:55 >> So, when we want to change, I tend to think about the benefit. So, in this
92:57 think about the benefit. So, in this moment, my brain is telling me like, oh,
92:58 moment, my brain is telling me like, oh, like we want to get, let's get healthy,
93:00 like we want to get, let's get healthy, but but so you're thinking about the
93:02 but but so you're thinking about the benefit when you start, but as you
93:04 benefit when you start, but as you start, you see the cost. So, when I go
93:08 start, you see the cost. So, when I go to the gym, all it is is suffering. And
93:12 to the gym, all it is is suffering. And so, then what happens is like the cost
93:13 so, then what happens is like the cost gets really big in my mind because I'm
93:15 gets really big in my mind because I'm reaping the cost now. I'm feeling the
93:16 reaping the cost now. I'm feeling the cost. this is really hard and the
93:18 cost. this is really hard and the benefit is far away. So when I get
93:20 benefit is far away. So when I get started, I think about the goal. I think
93:22 started, I think about the goal. I think about the benefit, but I'm not really
93:23 about the benefit, but I'm not really appreciating the cost. When I actually
93:25 appreciating the cost. When I actually do it, I feel the cost, but don't think
93:28 do it, I feel the cost, but don't think about the benefit.
93:29 about the benefit. >> So one of the biggest mistakes that you
93:31 >> So one of the biggest mistakes that you can make is thinking about the benefit
93:34 can make is thinking about the benefit when you want to do something
93:36 when you want to do something >> interesting.
93:37 >> interesting. >> So instead, what you should do is
93:40 >> So instead, what you should do is actually focus on the cost. Tell
93:42 actually focus on the cost. Tell yourself, okay, this is going to be
93:44 yourself, okay, this is going to be hard.
93:45 hard. >> Yeah.
93:45 >> Yeah. >> Right. like it's going to suck going to
93:47 >> Right. like it's going to suck going to the gym and accept the cost upfront. Do
93:50 the gym and accept the cost upfront. Do I want this thing? Yes. But you need to
93:51 I want this thing? Yes. But you need to balance it. So when we have high
93:53 balance it. So when we have high expectations, we're going to have low
93:55 expectations, we're going to have low follow through.
93:57 follow through. >> And when we have low expectations, if
93:59 >> And when we have low expectations, if you say to yourself, look, this is going
94:01 you say to yourself, look, this is going to suck. I'm going to do it anyway.
94:03 to suck. I'm going to do it anyway. That's the approach you should take.
94:05 That's the approach you should take. Now, a lot of people will say like, but
94:06 Now, a lot of people will say like, but I don't do it anyway. And that's where
94:08 I don't do it anyway. And that's where you need to really dig for a reason.
94:10 you need to really dig for a reason. >> Yeah. That reason being
94:12 >> Yeah. That reason being that idea that emotion shifts behavior.
94:15 that idea that emotion shifts behavior. Mhm.
94:16 Mhm. >> And figuring out what that emotion is is
94:19 >> And figuring out what that emotion is is so critical. Like I'm thinking about
94:22 so critical. Like I'm thinking about most of my spiritual aspirations come
94:24 most of my spiritual aspirations come from a deep sense of gratitude. Like
94:26 from a deep sense of gratitude. Like that's the emotion. It's like a
94:28 that's the emotion. It's like a gratitude to my teachers. The people
94:30 gratitude to my teachers. The people that have invested so much time into my
94:32 that have invested so much time into my life when I didn't deserve it. people
94:34 life when I didn't deserve it. people that are far more enlightened and far
94:37 that are far more enlightened and far more well read and people have actually
94:39 more well read and people have actually dedicated their life who found it useful
94:42 dedicated their life who found it useful to that I found so useful and were so
94:45 to that I found so useful and were so kind to give me time and energy
94:48 kind to give me time and energy >> that's kind of what it carries from
94:50 >> that's kind of what it carries from because I'm like yeah and then there are
94:52 because I'm like yeah and then there are certain other things which coming back
94:53 certain other things which coming back to health yeah knowing that hey all my
94:57 to health yeah knowing that hey all my friends are getting cancer at 40 or 50
94:59 friends are getting cancer at 40 or 50 years old or
95:00 years old or >> oh my god is that actually happening
95:01 >> oh my god is that actually happening >> a lot of them are sadly Oh my god. Yeah.
95:04 >> a lot of them are sadly Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Really sad truth
95:06 Yeah. Really sad truth >> to recognize. Oh yeah. I I would like to
95:09 >> to recognize. Oh yeah. I I would like to if I can avoid that. What's that going
95:12 if I can avoid that. What's that going to take? What does that mean? What do I
95:13 to take? What does that mean? What do I need to shift? What do I need to you
95:15 need to shift? What do I need to you know? And and so then there's there's
95:17 know? And and so then there's there's certain motivators like gratitude that
95:20 certain motivators like gratitude that are like these beautiful wonderful
95:23 are like these beautiful wonderful feelings. And then like you said with
95:25 feelings. And then like you said with the oxygen tank example in the
95:26 the oxygen tank example in the wheelchair, there's certain emotions
95:28 wheelchair, there's certain emotions that are much more fear-based.
95:30 that are much more fear-based. >> Yeah. and and worry worry-filled. Uh and
95:34 >> Yeah. and and worry worry-filled. Uh and both are useful for different things.
95:36 both are useful for different things. >> Absolutely.
95:37 >> Absolutely. >> Yeah.
95:37 >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I wouldn't rely on fear.
95:39 >> Yeah. I I wouldn't rely on fear. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a good one to get
95:40 >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a good one to get going.
95:41 going. >> Yeah.
95:41 >> Yeah. >> Good one to get going.
95:42 >> Good one to get going. >> But yeah, I mean I I I I think it's it's
95:44 >> But yeah, I mean I I I I think it's it's it's so interesting. I I wonder if like
95:46 it's so interesting. I I wonder if like so this is you know when I work with
95:47 so this is you know when I work with people I I find first of all that that's
95:49 people I I find first of all that that's really common that there's some things
95:50 really common that there's some things some emotional veillances that they can
95:53 some emotional veillances that they can really connect to that get them moving.
95:55 really connect to that get them moving. And so usually what we try to do is
95:57 And so usually what we try to do is connect that, right? So is there some
95:58 connect that, right? So is there some way to tap into gratitude about you've
96:00 way to tap into gratitude about you've been given this body and you know like
96:03 been given this body and you know like you know like what do you owe with this
96:06 you know like what do you owe with this body or something like that? So I think
96:08 body or something like that? So I think if you sort of think about the emotions
96:10 if you sort of think about the emotions that really get you going and for a lot
96:11 that really get you going and for a lot of men like for example it's anger which
96:13 of men like for example it's anger which can actually be good right channeling
96:14 can actually be good right channeling that anger often times that will help
96:17 that anger often times that will help people bridge the gap of if there's one
96:19 people bridge the gap of if there's one thing that does get you going can you
96:21 thing that does get you going can you tie that to a thing that you want to do?
96:24 tie that to a thing that you want to do? >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've always broken
96:26 >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've always broken it down as the um in the Bhagat Gita the
96:29 it down as the um in the Bhagat Gita the modes of material nature are there and
96:31 modes of material nature are there and so you have mode of ignorance, mode of
96:34 so you have mode of ignorance, mode of passion, mode of goodness and pure
96:35 passion, mode of goodness and pure goodness. So Thomas, Rajas and SBA and
96:37 goodness. So Thomas, Rajas and SBA and I've always seen that anger is like a
96:39 I've always seen that anger is like a Thomas motivator.
96:41 Thomas motivator. >> It's like it's it's not ideal but it
96:43 >> It's like it's it's not ideal but it gets you going.
96:44 gets you going. >> Yeah, absolutely.
96:44 >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And then rajas is more of a mode of
96:47 >> And then rajas is more of a mode of passion is kind of like having a goal,
96:49 passion is kind of like having a goal, having a desire, having an ambition like
96:51 having a desire, having an ambition like I want to get a six-pack, I want to be a
96:53 I want to get a six-pack, I want to be a millionaire, whatever. And but then
96:54 millionaire, whatever. And but then above that is goodness and pure goodness
96:56 above that is goodness and pure goodness which is more like love, gratitude, all
96:58 which is more like love, gratitude, all these emotions that are overall have a
97:01 these emotions that are overall have a much more healthier impact and have more
97:03 much more healthier impact and have more longevity to them.
97:04 longevity to them. >> Yeah.
97:04 >> Yeah. >> They don't die when you get there.
97:06 >> They don't die when you get there. >> The really interesting thing is that I
97:07 >> The really interesting thing is that I think if you use satvic emotions, your
97:10 think if you use satvic emotions, your material success could be way lower.
97:12 material success could be way lower. >> Yeah. For sure.
97:13 >> Yeah. For sure. >> Right. So, so as you start operating
97:15 >> Right. So, so as you start operating from love and as you become a little bit
97:17 from love and as you become a little bit more detached, you may not achieve as
97:20 more detached, you may not achieve as much but you'll be happier.
97:22 much but you'll be happier. >> Yeah. Yeah. Whereas if you have a lot of
97:24 >> Yeah. Yeah. Whereas if you have a lot of mode of passion in your life, Yeah.
97:26 mode of passion in your life, Yeah. you'll be much more successful. But
97:27 you'll be much more successful. But >> you'll also have ulcers.
97:28 >> you'll also have ulcers. >> Yeah.
97:30 >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
97:30 >> Yeah. >> Yeah. For sure. For sure. Uh I I really
97:33 >> Yeah. For sure. For sure. Uh I I really like the idea about just going back to
97:35 like the idea about just going back to that mental training piece around Yeah.
97:38 that mental training piece around Yeah. the emotion. What's at the root of our
97:41 the emotion. What's at the root of our addiction to pornography right now? Like
97:43 addiction to pornography right now? Like what's at the root of that from a
97:45 what's at the root of that from a >> from a core point of view?
97:47 >> from a core point of view? >> At the root is meaninglessness. So this
97:49 >> At the root is meaninglessness. So this is what a lot of people don't realize.
97:50 is what a lot of people don't realize. They think that pornography addiction is
97:52 They think that pornography addiction is about sexuality. They think it's about
97:54 about sexuality. They think it's about being horny. They think it's about lust.
97:56 being horny. They think it's about lust. It's not lust. So,
97:59 It's not lust. So, you know, one of the top variables,
98:01 you know, one of the top variables, there's two, one of the top variables
98:03 there's two, one of the top variables for
98:05 for addiction to pornography is lack of
98:08 addiction to pornography is lack of purpose, lack of meaning. So, when I was
98:11 purpose, lack of meaning. So, when I was designing our coaching program, I was
98:12 designing our coaching program, I was seeing that there's a lot of new
98:14 seeing that there's a lot of new problems, but they have these roots that
98:16 problems, but they have these roots that are a little bit different. So, in
98:17 are a little bit different. So, in psychiatry, they don't teach us how to
98:19 psychiatry, they don't teach us how to find purpose, but our initial pilot
98:22 find purpose, but our initial pilot study of 1,453
98:24 study of 1,453 people found a 68% increase in purpose
98:27 people found a 68% increase in purpose and direction in life at 20 weeks. So,
98:30 and direction in life at 20 weeks. So, that's also where you got to stick with
98:31 that's also where you got to stick with it for a while. It doesn't happen
98:32 it for a while. It doesn't happen overnight. So, I think what's going on
98:34 overnight. So, I think what's going on is to be like blunt about it, when you
98:38 is to be like blunt about it, when you are addicted to porn, you got to have a
98:40 are addicted to porn, you got to have a reason to not watch. So what happens
98:44 reason to not watch. So what happens with pornography addiction? A lot of
98:45 with pornography addiction? A lot of people don't realize what this looks
98:47 people don't realize what this looks like. They think it's like automatically
98:49 like. They think it's like automatically associated with lust and masturbation.
98:51 associated with lust and masturbation. Often times it's on the second screen.
98:52 Often times it's on the second screen. So we're seeing a big explosion of it
98:54 So we're seeing a big explosion of it with like work from home. People will
98:56 with like work from home. People will really use it to regulate their
98:58 really use it to regulate their emotions. That's really the number one
98:59 emotions. That's really the number one reason. So if we think about sex and
99:03 reason. So if we think about sex and what it does to our brain, if I'm
99:05 what it does to our brain, if I'm feeling anxious, if I'm a man,
99:07 feeling anxious, if I'm a man, biological male, and if my testosterone
99:09 biological male, and if my testosterone is is intact and stuff like that, you
99:11 is is intact and stuff like that, you know, we will often times if we get
99:14 know, we will often times if we get sexually activated, all of our negative
99:16 sexually activated, all of our negative emotions go away. And it's such a
99:17 emotions go away. And it's such a powerful activator. It's like the most
99:20 powerful activator. It's like the most powerful biological way to shut off your
99:24 powerful biological way to shut off your negative emotional circuitry.
99:26 negative emotional circuitry. Happens immediately like once you get
99:28 Happens immediately like once you get horny, right? And a lot of guys and
99:30 horny, right? And a lot of guys and sorry if this is a bit vulgar but you
99:31 sorry if this is a bit vulgar but you know will experience this postnut
99:33 know will experience this postnut clarity. And literally what happens in
99:35 clarity. And literally what happens in in your brain is when these sexual
99:38 in your brain is when these sexual circuits activate they suppress
99:40 circuits activate they suppress everything else including our risk
99:44 everything else including our risk assessment circuitry which is why we
99:46 assessment circuitry which is why we make really bad decisions. They shut off
99:48 make really bad decisions. They shut off everything else. They shut off your
99:49 everything else. They shut off your reasoning. They shut off your logic.
99:51 reasoning. They shut off your logic. They shut off your risk assessment. They
99:52 They shut off your risk assessment. They shut off your anxiety. They shut off
99:53 shut off your anxiety. They shut off your fear. So what we're seeing is that
99:57 your fear. So what we're seeing is that as people become more directionless and
99:59 as people become more directionless and as their capacity to handle negative
100:02 as their capacity to handle negative emotions decreases, they get addicted to
100:05 emotions decreases, they get addicted to pornography
100:06 pornography >> because it's the most accessible
100:09 >> because it's the most accessible biological tool that you can use and it
100:12 biological tool that you can use and it doesn't involve, you know, opiates and
100:13 doesn't involve, you know, opiates and spending money and things like that
100:15 spending money and things like that usually.
100:15 usually. >> Yeah. And what are the negative effects
100:17 >> Yeah. And what are the negative effects of pornography anyway that we're seeing?
100:19 of pornography anyway that we're seeing? Because if someone's watching this and
100:20 Because if someone's watching this and going, "Well, it's not that bad anyway.
100:22 going, "Well, it's not that bad anyway. It switches off. helps me
100:24 It switches off. helps me emotionally regulate.
100:24 emotionally regulate. >> Yes. So I think the scariest one for me
100:27 >> Yes. So I think the scariest one for me is um the rise of erectile dysfunction
100:30 is um the rise of erectile dysfunction under the age of 30.
100:31 under the age of 30. >> So erectile
100:32 >> So erectile >> how do the two correlate?
100:34 >> how do the two correlate? >> Yeah. Yeah.
100:35 >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So so erectile dysfunction under the age
100:37 >> So so erectile dysfunction under the age of 30 used to be 5%. Right. So as men
100:39 of 30 used to be 5%. Right. So as men where in society we tend to think like
100:41 where in society we tend to think like as you get older right like once you
100:43 as you get older right like once you have kids once you have grandkids like
100:45 have kids once you have grandkids like then it doesn't work the way it used to
100:46 then it doesn't work the way it used to right. But actually what we're starting
100:48 right. But actually what we're starting to see is the rate uh some studies
100:49 to see is the rate uh some studies suggest a rate of 20% of people under
100:52 suggest a rate of 20% of people under the age of 30 boys men um will have
100:54 the age of 30 boys men um will have erectile dysfunction. And the reason
100:56 erectile dysfunction. And the reason that happens it's kind of also a little
100:58 that happens it's kind of also a little bit of vulgar but it's medical. So the
101:02 bit of vulgar but it's medical. So the hand grip strength
101:05 hand grip strength uh the PSI the pounds per square inch of
101:07 uh the PSI the pounds per square inch of your hand can be like 120 130. The
101:11 your hand can be like 120 130. The vagina has a PSI of like 15 to 30. So
101:14 vagina has a PSI of like 15 to 30. So literally what the way you define
101:16 literally what the way you define erectile dysfunction is it is the
101:19 erectile dysfunction is it is the inability to maintain erection until the
101:22 inability to maintain erection until the completion of the sexual act. So what
101:25 completion of the sexual act. So what we're seeing is that when boys start
101:28 we're seeing is that when boys start using pornography and masturbating at a
101:29 using pornography and masturbating at a very young age without lubrication and
101:32 very young age without lubrication and stuff like that, their body gets trained
101:35 stuff like that, their body gets trained for a certain kind of stimulus in order
101:38 for a certain kind of stimulus in order to complete the sexual act. And when
101:40 to complete the sexual act. And when they engage in a sexual relationship,
101:43 they engage in a sexual relationship, their
101:45 their penis doesn't know how to handle like it
101:48 penis doesn't know how to handle like it is just just not enough. And then
101:49 is just just not enough. And then eventually they'll go at it, they'll go
101:50 eventually they'll go at it, they'll go at it, they'll go at it, they'll lose
101:52 at it, they'll go at it, they'll lose the erection, which is physiologic. And
101:55 the erection, which is physiologic. And then what happens is we have all kinds
101:56 then what happens is we have all kinds of like shame associated with it, you
101:59 of like shame associated with it, you know, and then like once the shame kicks
102:01 know, and then like once the shame kicks in, that shame can be so powerful that
102:03 in, that shame can be so powerful that the sexual drive cannot shut that down.
102:06 the sexual drive cannot shut that down. And then you have anxiety around sex and
102:08 And then you have anxiety around sex and things like that. and it can really mess
102:10 things like that. and it can really mess up people's relationships.
102:11 up people's relationships. >> What's the mental training for someone
102:12 >> What's the mental training for someone who's saying, "Okay, well, I I want to
102:14 who's saying, "Okay, well, I I want to disconnect from porn. I want to detach,
102:16 disconnect from porn. I want to detach, but I'm not going to find purpose
102:18 but I'm not going to find purpose tomorrow. So, what's the stop gap?"
102:21 tomorrow. So, what's the stop gap?" There is no stop gap, and you have to
102:23 There is no stop gap, and you have to stop thinking about things happening
102:25 stop thinking about things happening tomorrow. Honestly, that's where you
102:26 tomorrow. Honestly, that's where you start. So, you know, our approach to
102:29 start. So, you know, our approach to pornography has three major pillars, and
102:31 pornography has three major pillars, and I think you have to tackle all three. So
102:33 I think you have to tackle all three. So the first is like a very standard
102:35 the first is like a very standard addictionoriented
102:37 addictionoriented structure where like if you're trying to
102:40 structure where like if you're trying to quit alcohol, you got to stop going to
102:41 quit alcohol, you got to stop going to bars. So from a structural standpoint,
102:43 bars. So from a structural standpoint, what I recommend everyone is that they
102:46 what I recommend everyone is that they um you know log out of all their
102:48 um you know log out of all their devices, use only one device for
102:50 devices, use only one device for pornography and restrict your
102:52 pornography and restrict your pornography use to like one or two hours
102:54 pornography use to like one or two hours of the day. So it has to like stop
102:56 of the day. So it has to like stop infecting every part of your life.
102:58 infecting every part of your life. That's the first part. We're going to
102:59 That's the first part. We're going to kind of restrict it. Um, the second
103:01 kind of restrict it. Um, the second thing is emotional regulation. So, as
103:04 thing is emotional regulation. So, as long as your brain requires pornography
103:07 long as your brain requires pornography to manage your emotional your emotions,
103:09 to manage your emotional your emotions, it's you're never going to be able to
103:11 it's you're never going to be able to quit. So, you need to develop alternate
103:14 quit. So, you need to develop alternate skills to manage your emotions. These
103:16 skills to manage your emotions. These can be things like meditation practices,
103:18 can be things like meditation practices, even going for a walk, stuff like that.
103:20 even going for a walk, stuff like that. Um, one thing that I also really
103:22 Um, one thing that I also really recommend to people is that they give
103:24 recommend to people is that they give themselves time to think before they
103:26 themselves time to think before they before they go to sleep. So, spend an
103:28 before they go to sleep. So, spend an hour of idle time. I love pacing. We
103:31 hour of idle time. I love pacing. We need a lot of time to process emotions.
103:33 need a lot of time to process emotions. You can also do things like dream
103:34 You can also do things like dream journals. So dreams are one of the main
103:37 journals. So dreams are one of the main ways that our brain processes emotions.
103:40 ways that our brain processes emotions. So that emotional regulation is number
103:41 So that emotional regulation is number two. And the third thing is finding
103:43 two. And the third thing is finding meaning or purpose. So watch more
103:45 meaning or purpose. So watch more episodes of on purpose with J Shetty. So
103:48 episodes of on purpose with J Shetty. So as you develop that purpose, you're
103:50 as you develop that purpose, you're right, it's not going to happen
103:50 right, it's not going to happen overnight. We see that it takes about 20
103:52 overnight. We see that it takes about 20 weeks. That's when people
103:53 weeks. That's when people >> 20 weeks is amazing.
103:54 >> 20 weeks is amazing. >> Yeah. So it's focused, right? So what we
103:57 >> Yeah. So it's focused, right? So what we did is we took some of these like
103:59 did is we took some of these like clinical things that used to be used to
104:00 clinical things that used to be used to treat depression and we shift those
104:03 treat depression and we shift those those same conversational techniques,
104:05 those same conversational techniques, exploratory techniques to finding
104:07 exploratory techniques to finding something like purpose and that works
104:08 something like purpose and that works incredibly well and then we can go into
104:11 incredibly well and then we can go into the details of of you know what that
104:13 the details of of you know what that involves.
104:13 involves. >> I was going to ask you that that was my
104:15 >> I was going to ask you that that was my next question. How do how do you define
104:16 next question. How do how do you define purpose? What are you looking at in the
104:18 purpose? What are you looking at in the 20 weeks? What are you trying to get
104:19 20 weeks? What are you trying to get people?
104:20 people? >> Yeah. So so the funny thing about
104:21 >> Yeah. So so the funny thing about purpose is like it's not what everyone
104:23 purpose is like it's not what everyone thinks it is. So the way you find
104:26 thinks it is. So the way you find purpose is like really kind of
104:29 purpose is like really kind of counterintuitive. So it actually
104:30 counterintuitive. So it actually involves
104:32 involves I don't know what purpose is. Maybe we
104:34 I don't know what purpose is. Maybe we can ask you but what we know is what are
104:37 can ask you but what we know is what are the scientific mechanisms. So if I take
104:40 the scientific mechanisms. So if I take someone who has no purpose in life and I
104:44 someone who has no purpose in life and I take someone who has purpose in life,
104:46 take someone who has purpose in life, what do they do differently? That's what
104:48 what do they do differently? That's what we try to change.
104:49 we try to change. >> Great question. Yeah.
104:50 >> Great question. Yeah. >> So the first thing is self-direction.
104:54 >> So the first thing is self-direction. So people as long as you as long as life
104:57 So people as long as you as long as life is happening to you and you are not
105:00 is happening to you and you are not making choices if you are forced to make
105:02 making choices if you are forced to make choices you will feel out of direction.
105:04 choices you will feel out of direction. >> Mhm.
105:05 >> Mhm. >> So this is kind of counterintuitive but
105:07 >> So this is kind of counterintuitive but the first thing I tell people to do is
105:08 the first thing I tell people to do is start making choices.
105:10 start making choices. >> Mhm.
105:10 >> Mhm. >> And then the first question that they
105:11 >> And then the first question that they ask me is how do I know what's right or
105:13 ask me is how do I know what's right or wrong? That's not actually doesn't
105:15 wrong? That's not actually doesn't matter. The what matters in your brain
105:18 matter. The what matters in your brain is that you choose. And the whole point
105:20 is that you choose. And the whole point this is really insidious. If you think
105:22 this is really insidious. If you think about right or wrong, if you figure out
105:24 about right or wrong, if you figure out right or wrong, you're not make you're
105:26 right or wrong, you're not make you're not making the choice.
105:27 not making the choice. >> Yeah.
105:28 >> Yeah. >> The world tells you this is right and
105:29 >> The world tells you this is right and this is wrong. That's the world making
105:31 this is wrong. That's the world making the choice for you. This is right and
105:32 the choice for you. This is right and this is wrong. So forget about right or
105:34 this is wrong. So forget about right or wrong and just make a choice. I don't
105:36 wrong and just make a choice. I don't care what it is. Choose matcha instead
105:38 care what it is. Choose matcha instead of coffee. Put your left shoe on first
105:41 of coffee. Put your left shoe on first instead of your right shoe. Start
105:42 instead of your right shoe. Start brushing with your left te your left
105:44 brushing with your left te your left hand. So you need to start making
105:46 hand. So you need to start making choices. There's a beautiful element
105:49 choices. There's a beautiful element about anxiety that we can talk about
105:51 about anxiety that we can talk about there. It'll also like drastically help
105:53 there. It'll also like drastically help your anxiety.
105:54 your anxiety. Second thing that you need to do is
105:56 Second thing that you need to do is stretch your capacity.
105:58 stretch your capacity. So we feel like we have purpose in life
106:00 So we feel like we have purpose in life because it's not purpose but this is
106:01 because it's not purpose but this is like literally what the scientific
106:03 like literally what the scientific makeup of purpose is stretching your
106:05 makeup of purpose is stretching your capacity. So we always feel overwhelmed.
106:07 capacity. So we always feel overwhelmed. I don't want to do it. I want to do the
106:09 I don't want to do it. I want to do the bare minimum. We're a society of people
106:11 bare minimum. We're a society of people who do the bare minimum. We're a society
106:13 who do the bare minimum. We're a society of people who companies use chatgpt and
106:17 of people who companies use chatgpt and AI to review applications. Now everyone
106:19 AI to review applications. Now everyone is using AI to apply for jobs. It's just
106:22 is using AI to apply for jobs. It's just AI talking to AI. We're trying to do as
106:25 AI talking to AI. We're trying to do as little as possible. And we're seeing an
106:28 little as possible. And we're seeing an epidemic of purposelessness. We're
106:29 epidemic of purposelessness. We're seeing an epidemic of pornography use.
106:31 seeing an epidemic of pornography use. But that's because in your brain, these
106:32 But that's because in your brain, these two things are connected. The moment you
106:35 two things are connected. The moment you stretch your capacities, once again, it
106:38 stretch your capacities, once again, it doesn't matter what you're doing. If you
106:40 doesn't matter what you're doing. If you swim 10 10 laps, swim 11. If you are
106:45 swim 10 10 laps, swim 11. If you are wake up at 7 uh 7 7:00 every day, wake
106:48 wake up at 7 uh 7 7:00 every day, wake up at 6:59.
106:50 up at 6:59. This is the beautiful thing. The content
106:52 This is the beautiful thing. The content of what you do is completely irrelev not
106:54 of what you do is completely irrelev not completely. That's not wrong. That's
106:55 completely. That's not wrong. That's that's wrong. But the key thing is that
106:57 that's wrong. But the key thing is that you stretch your capacities. I didn't
107:00 you stretch your capacities. I didn't think I was capable of this. You don't
107:02 think I was capable of this. You don't even have to succeed. You just have to
107:04 even have to succeed. You just have to stretch it. I didn't think I could do
107:06 stretch it. I didn't think I could do this. Turns out I was wrong. At least I
107:08 this. Turns out I was wrong. At least I tried. When you start thinking in this
107:11 tried. When you start thinking in this way,
107:11 way, >> right? When I ask someone, you know, if
107:13 >> right? When I ask someone, you know, if I like a quick thought experiment,
107:16 I like a quick thought experiment, we're always afraid of giving it all our
107:18 we're always afraid of giving it all our all and failing. But when you give it
107:21 all and failing. But when you give it your all, how do you usually feel? You
107:24 your all, how do you usually feel? You can usually sleep at night. As long as
107:26 can usually sleep at night. As long as some of the stuff like ego and stuff
107:28 some of the stuff like ego and stuff doesn't get in the way, right? At least
107:29 doesn't get in the way, right? At least I tried my best. That can give you a a
107:32 I tried my best. That can give you a a good sense. That's a hard lesson I
107:34 good sense. That's a hard lesson I learned in med school because or in
107:36 learned in med school because or in residency is like, you know, what helps
107:38 residency is like, you know, what helps me sleep at night is not whether the
107:40 me sleep at night is not whether the patient lives or dies.
107:42 patient lives or dies. Did I give it my all? Did I do
107:43 Did I give it my all? Did I do everything within my power to try to
107:45 everything within my power to try to help this person? And if I did, the rest
107:47 help this person? And if I did, the rest is out of my hands.
107:48 is out of my hands. >> Yeah.
107:49 >> Yeah. >> Right. So, you have to stretch your
107:51 >> Right. So, you have to stretch your capacities.
107:52 capacities. >> The third thing, and this is the hardest
107:54 >> The third thing, and this is the hardest one,
107:55 one, >> relatedness.
107:57 >> relatedness. So, people have to be able to see you.
107:59 So, people have to be able to see you. >> Mhm.
108:00 >> Mhm. >> And respond to the real you. It doesn't
108:02 >> And respond to the real you. It doesn't necessarily have to be positive. Certain
108:04 necessarily have to be positive. Certain amount of acceptedness, accepting that
108:06 amount of acceptedness, accepting that person is good. But other people has to
108:08 person is good. But other people has to be able to see who you are. And that's
108:10 be able to see who you are. And that's really hard because people don't have
108:11 really hard because people don't have the attention for that. Everyone's on
108:12 the attention for that. Everyone's on their cell phones. So I think if you do,
108:15 their cell phones. So I think if you do, if you cultivate these three things,
108:16 if you cultivate these three things, your sense of purpose will increase in
108:18 your sense of purpose will increase in life.
108:19 life. >> That's fresh. I like that. That's I like
108:22 >> That's fresh. I like that. That's I like that you've used what you'd see as the
108:25 that you've used what you'd see as the difference between a purposeful person
108:26 difference between a purposeful person and someone who doesn't have purpose to
108:28 and someone who doesn't have purpose to find what to what path to travel.
108:30 find what to what path to travel. >> Yeah. So I think the really confusing
108:32 >> Yeah. So I think the really confusing thing is when people think about
108:34 thing is when people think about purpose, like if I were to ask you Jay,
108:35 purpose, like if I were to ask you Jay, what is your purpose? How would you
108:36 what is your purpose? How would you answer that? If I if you ask me what is
108:39 answer that? If I if you ask me what is my purpose? Yeah. So my purpose would be
108:41 my purpose? Yeah. So my purpose would be to make ancient wisdom accessible,
108:44 to make ancient wisdom accessible, relevant and practical for the modern
108:45 relevant and practical for the modern person.
108:46 person. >> Perfect. Right. So that's what most
108:48 >> Perfect. Right. So that's what most people think it is. They think it's like
108:50 people think it is. They think it's like this. Yeah. For sure.
108:51 this. Yeah. For sure. >> Right. But this is what I want people to
108:53 >> Right. But this is what I want people to understand. If you really think about
108:54 understand. If you really think about it, how do you know that you have
108:56 it, how do you know that you have purpose or you don't have purpose?
108:58 purpose or you don't have purpose? Totally. Yeah. It's not that.
108:59 Totally. Yeah. It's not that. >> It's an internal feeling. Like I wake up
109:01 >> It's an internal feeling. Like I wake up every day like my guess is you wake up
109:02 every day like my guess is you wake up and you're like, I have purpose.
109:04 and you're like, I have purpose. >> Yes.
109:04 >> Yes. >> It's an internal feeling. Mhm.
109:06 >> It's an internal feeling. Mhm. >> So, how do we cultivate that internal
109:08 >> So, how do we cultivate that internal feeling with these three things?
109:09 feeling with these three things? >> Yeah, I love that. I think it's
109:11 >> Yeah, I love that. I think it's beautiful. I really really like those
109:12 beautiful. I really really like those three things and they they come closely
109:14 three things and they they come closely to some of the things I've thought about
109:16 to some of the things I've thought about before as well. And I think there's a
109:18 before as well. And I think there's a need and your people get it because
109:19 need and your people get it because they're part of your community, but I
109:21 they're part of your community, but I think belonging is such a first step in
109:22 think belonging is such a first step in purpose. Like even, you know, recently I
109:25 purpose. Like even, you know, recently I took up pickle ball and I feel like I'm
109:27 took up pickle ball and I feel like I'm part of the LA pickle ball scene and
109:29 part of the LA pickle ball scene and I'll just walk up to a court
109:31 I'll just walk up to a court >> and I can just go play with anyone. I
109:32 >> and I can just go play with anyone. I don't have to know each other's names. I
109:34 don't have to know each other's names. I don't know what job they have. They
109:36 don't know what job they have. They don't know what I do. And you're playing
109:37 don't know what I do. And you're playing pickle ball together. And there's a
109:38 pickle ball together. And there's a sense of belonging which makes me feel
109:41 sense of belonging which makes me feel automatically linked to something bigger
109:43 automatically linked to something bigger than me. So belonging isn't a sense of I
109:45 than me. So belonging isn't a sense of I have friends. Belonging is I feel
109:47 have friends. Belonging is I feel connected to something that is beyond me
109:50 connected to something that is beyond me and beyond this person. And I think
109:52 and beyond this person. And I think that's such a part of purpose. The
109:53 that's such a part of purpose. The second one which is aligns with what
109:55 second one which is aligns with what you're saying to me is learning. But
109:57 you're saying to me is learning. But really, it's what you're saying. It's
109:58 really, it's what you're saying. It's that challenge to stretch my capability
110:02 that challenge to stretch my capability to to try something new every day. That
110:04 to to try something new every day. That idea of curiosity uh is so key to it as
110:07 idea of curiosity uh is so key to it as well as a habit. The third, this one's
110:09 well as a habit. The third, this one's really important for me. It's people who
110:11 really important for me. It's people who feel independently useful. So now you're
110:14 feel independently useful. So now you're part of this bigger thing, but you know
110:15 part of this bigger thing, but you know what you do. So I'm the guy who brings
110:16 what you do. So I'm the guy who brings the pickle balls. I'm the guy who like
110:19 the pickle balls. I'm the guy who like puts the net out, right? Like I have a
110:20 puts the net out, right? Like I have a per I have a use that is unique to me.
110:24 per I have a use that is unique to me. >> Yeah. So, you know what's really
110:25 >> Yeah. So, you know what's really fascinating
110:27 fascinating >> is
110:29 >> is I love and I'm amazed that my guess is
110:32 I love and I'm amazed that my guess is that you did not like read a bunch of
110:33 that you did not like read a bunch of scientific literature to come up with
110:35 scientific literature to come up with these things.
110:36 these things. >> I've I've read enough but I didn't use
110:38 >> I've I've read enough but I didn't use it to but I have I'm I'm defin I'm
110:40 it to but I have I'm I'm defin I'm always reading I I know you're you're
110:42 always reading I I know you're you're quite well read and stuff but I enjoy
110:44 quite well read and stuff but I enjoy reading. Yeah.
110:44 reading. Yeah. >> You know, so so I'm not a scientist but
110:46 >> You know, so so I'm not a scientist but but it's not like you're like let me
110:47 but it's not like you're like let me read a thousand papers. That's how I
110:49 read a thousand papers. That's how I came up with my answer,
110:50 came up with my answer, >> right? And so what I think is really
110:52 >> right? And so what I think is really beautiful is your things can be mapped
110:54 beautiful is your things can be mapped onto my things and what the data shows.
110:57 onto my things and what the data shows. Your independent exploration. Sure,
110:59 Your independent exploration. Sure, you're reading a lot. You are you keep
111:00 you're reading a lot. You are you keep up with science and stuff like that. But
111:02 up with science and stuff like that. But you're looking at your experience and
111:04 you're looking at your experience and you have belongingness which is
111:06 you have belongingness which is correlated with relatedness.
111:08 correlated with relatedness. >> Yeah.
111:08 >> Yeah. >> Right. You have this curiosity which
111:10 >> Right. You have this curiosity which causes you to stretch.
111:11 causes you to stretch. >> Yeah.
111:12 >> Yeah. >> You have this independent usefulness
111:15 >> You have this independent usefulness which is autonomy which is making
111:17 which is autonomy which is making choices. I'm going to go ahead. no one
111:19 choices. I'm going to go ahead. no one needs to ask me and you find a utility
111:22 needs to ask me and you find a utility like you know and so I I think it's
111:23 like you know and so I I think it's really beautiful like I like I love
111:25 really beautiful like I like I love hearing that because that shows me that
111:27 hearing that because that shows me that if people pay attention
111:29 if people pay attention >> right if they do what you did which not
111:32 >> right if they do what you did which not to devalue what you did but I think is
111:34 to devalue what you did but I think is easier than what I did you don't have to
111:37 easier than what I did you don't have to read a thousand papers on purpose to
111:40 read a thousand papers on purpose to understand what what it is right you can
111:42 understand what what it is right you can pay attention to yourself you can do
111:43 pay attention to yourself you can do some amount of reading you can listen to
111:45 some amount of reading you can listen to a few podcasts and that is enough for
111:47 a few podcasts and that is enough for you to find the right answers.
111:49 you to find the right answers. >> And it's crazy cuz you hit all three.
111:51 >> And it's crazy cuz you hit all three. >> Mhm.
111:52 >> Mhm. >> You didn't come up with four, you didn't
111:53 >> You didn't come up with four, you didn't come up with two. You came up with
111:54 come up with two. You came up with three. And it's all the same buckets.
111:56 three. And it's all the same buckets. >> Really amazing.
111:57 >> Really amazing. >> I have two more.
111:58 >> I have two more. >> Oh, really? Okay.
111:59 >> Oh, really? Okay. >> So So that's actually really cool, too.
112:02 >> So So that's actually really cool, too. >> Cuz if you've got two more, I wonder if
112:04 >> Cuz if you've got two more, I wonder if we're missing something.
112:05 we're missing something. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not And I don't I'm
112:06 >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not And I don't I'm not saying you are. This is just my own
112:08 not saying you are. This is just my own reflection.
112:08 reflection. >> No, no, no. But I mean, I would bet
112:10 >> No, no, no. But I mean, I would bet money we are. So tell me what
112:11 money we are. So tell me what >> the fourth one is service.
112:13 >> the fourth one is service. >> Okay. So having a sense of give back,
112:15 >> Okay. So having a sense of give back, having a sense of
112:17 having a sense of >> being involved in other people's
112:18 >> being involved in other people's well-being, which goes back to you've
112:20 well-being, which goes back to you've it's really beautiful because I've heard
112:22 it's really beautiful because I've heard that idea before, but not as strongly
112:25 that idea before, but not as strongly and concretely. This idea of you
112:27 and concretely. This idea of you explaining what it means to not think
112:28 explaining what it means to not think about yourself today has just like
112:31 about yourself today has just like really cut through for me which is so
112:33 really cut through for me which is so powerful because it's been explained in
112:35 powerful because it's been explained in a clinical way I think and that's what
112:37 a clinical way I think and that's what that service element is. It's like all
112:39 that service element is. It's like all those first things were still about in
112:42 those first things were still about in one sense belonging was beyond you. It's
112:43 one sense belonging was beyond you. It's think about something bigger than you.
112:45 think about something bigger than you. But this one's a key part. It's like how
112:46 But this one's a key part. It's like how are you doing things for things which
112:47 are you doing things for things which are not about you. I'm not thinking
112:49 are not about you. I'm not thinking about how I'm useful. I'm not thinking
112:50 about how I'm useful. I'm not thinking about this. I'm trying to think about
112:51 about this. I'm trying to think about someone else. So service and then the
112:53 someone else. So service and then the fifth one comes back to our point
112:54 fifth one comes back to our point earlier on detachment which is
112:56 earlier on detachment which is surrender. I use the word surrender
112:58 surrender. I use the word surrender because it falls into my five acronym
113:00 because it falls into my five acronym that I have. But the the last is
113:02 that I have. But the the last is surrender because there's such a need
113:04 surrender because there's such a need for ultimately that detachment from I
113:08 for ultimately that detachment from I what you just so beautifully said that
113:10 what you just so beautifully said that at the end of the day I can't decide
113:11 at the end of the day I can't decide whether I'm going to save someone's life
113:13 whether I'm going to save someone's life or not. The only thing I can be
113:14 or not. The only thing I can be satisfied is I gave it my all. And that
113:16 satisfied is I gave it my all. And that to me is what surrender really is is the
113:18 to me is what surrender really is is the ability to say I did everything and now
113:21 ability to say I did everything and now I'm holding my hands up and I'm living
113:22 I'm holding my hands up and I'm living with the the the results because I can't
113:25 with the the the results because I can't control what's going on. So
113:26 control what's going on. So >> go to mafarta also from
113:27 >> go to mafarta also from >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
113:28 >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I I think you're there's plenty of
113:30 >> And I I think you're there's plenty of science for your last two. I think the
113:32 science for your last two. I think the interesting thing is the scientific
113:33 interesting thing is the scientific literature doesn't
113:35 literature doesn't >> thus far has not tied that to the
113:37 >> thus far has not tied that to the concept of purpose.
113:38 concept of purpose. >> Yeah.
113:39 >> Yeah. >> But I I think especially like you know
113:40 >> But I I think especially like you know service is really interesting.
113:43 service is really interesting. There's a a study that found multiple
113:46 There's a a study that found multiple studies that found that people who
113:47 studies that found that people who suffer from major depressive disorder
113:49 suffer from major depressive disorder and are depressed one of the best things
113:51 and are depressed one of the best things they can do to improve their depression
113:53 they can do to improve their depression is help other people.
113:54 is help other people. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
113:55 >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Right. So there's something really
113:57 >> Right. So there's something really special about being a part of a
114:00 special about being a part of a community, giving back in some way has
114:03 community, giving back in some way has profound positive uh effects on our
114:04 profound positive uh effects on our brain
114:04 brain >> and it's so great for self-esteem. It it
114:07 >> and it's so great for self-esteem. It it affects all the I think we used to argue
114:09 affects all the I think we used to argue this stupid debate over can something
114:11 this stupid debate over can something ever truly be selfless service because
114:13 ever truly be selfless service because you're doing it for yourself. And I'm
114:14 you're doing it for yourself. And I'm actually not interested in that
114:16 actually not interested in that question. It's it's more interesting to
114:17 question. It's it's more interesting to me the fact that if you were useful,
114:19 me the fact that if you were useful, you'd feel more useful where you'd be
114:22 you'd feel more useful where you'd be more useful and you do more for others.
114:24 more useful and you do more for others. And that is a positive cycle for people
114:26 And that is a positive cycle for people who have depression or are struggling
114:28 who have depression or are struggling with feelings of not being worthy enough
114:30 with feelings of not being worthy enough or not mattering. That idea when you
114:32 or not mattering. That idea when you look at it through suicide, it's like I
114:34 look at it through suicide, it's like I didn't matter anymore. I didn't feel
114:35 didn't matter anymore. I didn't feel like I was needed anymore.
114:37 like I was needed anymore. >> Absolutely.
114:38 >> Absolutely. >> You know, it's like you don't want
114:39 >> You know, it's like you don't want people to go through those feelings and
114:40 people to go through those feelings and emotions.
114:41 emotions. >> There's a I I love what you said and let
114:43 >> There's a I I love what you said and let me know if we're like
114:44 me know if we're like >> No, I love it. Pickle ball is going back
114:45 >> No, I love it. Pickle ball is going back and forth too much, but you know, I I I
114:48 and forth too much, but you know, I I I love this concept of service because I
114:50 love this concept of service because I think many of the questions you asked
114:52 think many of the questions you asked me, I think this is the answer.
114:54 me, I think this is the answer. So when you engage in service that
114:57 So when you engage in service that dissolves your ego.
114:58 dissolves your ego. >> So if people are wondering how can I
115:00 >> So if people are wondering how can I stop caring about other people give
115:03 stop caring about other people give yourself in service right? Don't do what
115:05 yourself in service right? Don't do what they want. That's not really service.
115:07 they want. That's not really service. Service is is not giving someone what
115:08 Service is is not giving someone what they want. It is doing what you feel
115:12 they want. It is doing what you feel like for the benefit of others. It comes
115:14 like for the benefit of others. It comes from you.
115:15 from you. >> And you're saying like this isn't for
115:17 >> And you're saying like this isn't for me. This is for other people. And if you
115:19 me. This is for other people. And if you kind of think about how do I stop caring
115:20 kind of think about how do I stop caring about what other people think? That is a
115:23 about what other people think? That is a selfish selflessness,
115:25 selfish selflessness, >> right? I'm trying to make other people
115:26 >> right? I'm trying to make other people happy so that they'll leave me alone.
115:28 happy so that they'll leave me alone. They'll treat me with respect. They'll
115:29 They'll treat me with respect. They'll tell me I'm great. That's actually
115:31 tell me I'm great. That's actually selfish.
115:32 selfish. >> But service is giving without
115:34 >> But service is giving without expectation. Yeah.
115:35 expectation. Yeah. >> Giving. And that's the whole point.
115:37 >> Giving. And that's the whole point. >> Mhm.
115:37 >> Mhm. >> Right. And so I I think service is a
115:39 >> Right. And so I I think service is a beautiful way to decrease the agar
115:41 beautiful way to decrease the agar because it's not about me anymore. And
115:43 because it's not about me anymore. And there's a really interesting
115:44 there's a really interesting neuroscience to this which is literally
115:48 neuroscience to this which is literally when you are engaged in service the
115:50 when you are engaged in service the minutes that your brain are not thinking
115:53 minutes that your brain are not thinking about you increases
115:56 about you increases and for so much of our life social media
116:00 and for so much of our life social media and all of this kind of stuff we are
116:02 and all of this kind of stuff we are constantly thinking about ourselves.
116:04 constantly thinking about ourselves. >> Yeah. So literally to spend time to give
116:07 >> Yeah. So literally to spend time to give your break your brain a break from
116:09 your break your brain a break from thinking about you, worrying about you,
116:11 thinking about you, worrying about you, just focusing on somebody else.
116:13 just focusing on somebody else. >> Yeah.
116:14 >> Yeah. >> Is profoundly helpful for your default
116:16 >> Is profoundly helpful for your default mode network and your ego.
116:18 mode network and your ego. >> Yeah. Dr. K, I could talk to you for
116:20 >> Yeah. Dr. K, I could talk to you for hours and I'm going to need to book you
116:21 hours and I'm going to need to book you in again because cuz this is like this
116:23 in again because cuz this is like this is so much fun and we didn't even
116:25 is so much fun and we didn't even there's so many things we could talk
116:27 there's so many things we could talk about. Uh but we end every on purpose
116:29 about. Uh but we end every on purpose interview with a final five. These
116:31 interview with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one
116:32 questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
116:34 word to one sentence maximum. >> Okay.
116:34 >> Okay. >> Uh so Dr. K, these are your final five.
116:36 >> Uh so Dr. K, these are your final five. >> Okay, let's do it.
116:37 >> Okay, let's do it. >> Question number one is, what is the best
116:39 >> Question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received
116:45 >> or given? >> Best advice I've ever heard or received
116:48 >> Best advice I've ever heard or received or given.
116:50 or given. >> Um
116:52 >> Um can we go to the second one while I
116:54 can we go to the second one while I think about that?
116:54 think about that? >> The second one's harder usually. What is
116:57 >> The second one's harder usually. What is the worst advice you ever heard,
116:58 the worst advice you ever heard, received, or given? The thing that is
117:01 received, or given? The thing that is top of mind for me right now is be
117:02 top of mind for me right now is be yourself.
117:03 yourself. >> Yeah, that's I agree. It's fully bad
117:05 >> Yeah, that's I agree. It's fully bad advice. I'm so glad you said that
117:07 advice. I'm so glad you said that because I was on tour earlier this year
117:09 because I was on tour earlier this year and I literally said that on stage. I
117:11 and I literally said that on stage. I was like, if anyone ever tells you to be
117:12 was like, if anyone ever tells you to be yourself, it is the worst advice ever.
117:14 yourself, it is the worst advice ever. That makes me happy. Uh, question number
117:16 That makes me happy. Uh, question number three. What's something that you used to
117:19 three. What's something that you used to believe to be true that you don't
117:21 believe to be true that you don't anymore?
117:31 >> It's a good answer. Yeah, that's a great answer.
117:32 answer. >> I'm really not.
117:34 >> I'm really not. >> That's a I I can relate to. I put my
117:35 >> That's a I I can relate to. I put my hand up for that. That's a great answer.
117:37 hand up for that. That's a great answer. Uh, question number four. What's
117:39 Uh, question number four. What's something that other people don't agree
117:41 something that other people don't agree with you on, but you'd fight for till
117:44 with you on, but you'd fight for till the end? I don't know that I would fight
117:46 the end? I don't know that I would fight for this, but I think the biggest thing
117:48 for this, but I think the biggest thing is like some of my like I think that
117:50 is like some of my like I think that this consciousness stuff is real. I
117:52 this consciousness stuff is real. I think there's a whole dimension of like
117:55 think there's a whole dimension of like human existence that science cannot I
117:58 human existence that science cannot I get one answer one word but um but I I I
118:02 get one answer one word but um but I I I think that there is a whole I think that
118:03 think that there is a whole I think that I believe there's a layer of reality
118:07 I believe there's a layer of reality >> that can only be experienced
118:09 >> that can only be experienced subjectively.
118:12 subjectively. >> Great answer. Uh fifth and final
118:14 >> Great answer. Uh fifth and final question. If you could create we ask
118:16 question. If you could create we ask this to every guest who's ever been on
118:17 this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law
118:19 the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to
118:21 that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
118:23 follow, what would it be? >> I would never do that.
118:25 >> I would never do that. >> Yeah.
118:27 >> Yeah. >> I I really wouldn't.
118:28 >> I I really wouldn't. >> I'll edit it for you. If you could
118:30 >> I'll edit it for you. If you could create one habit that you wish everyone
118:32 create one habit that you wish everyone in the world would follow, what would it
118:34 in the world would follow, what would it be?
118:38 >> I understand you're trying to help me out here,
118:39 out here, >> but you're not going to answer.
118:40 >> but you're not going to answer. >> I am I am so averse to doing one thing
118:43 >> I am I am so averse to doing one thing for everyone.
118:44 for everyone. >> Everyone interesting,
118:45 >> Everyone interesting, >> right? Like I just don't think like
118:47 >> right? Like I just don't think like >> don't believe in it. Yeah. Yeah.
118:48 >> don't believe in it. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
118:49 Interesting. >> But I think I really think like I mean
118:51 >> But I think I really think like I mean I've learned this the hard way. The
118:53 I've learned this the hard way. The moment I assume that anyone who walks in
118:56 moment I assume that anyone who walks in my office
118:57 my office >> is even a little bit overlapping with
118:59 >> is even a little bit overlapping with someone else is the moment that
119:00 someone else is the moment that >> It's a great answer. Yeah. I love that.
119:02 >> It's a great answer. Yeah. I love that. Do you want to give the best advice
119:03 Do you want to give the best advice again? Oh.
119:04 again? Oh. >> Yeah. So best advice I would give is um
119:08 >> Yeah. So best advice I would give is um focus more on what is happening and less
119:11 focus more on what is happening and less on what you're doing. Focus more on what
119:14 on what you're doing. Focus more on what is happening and less on what you're
119:15 is happening and less on what you're doing.
119:16 doing. >> Yeah,
119:16 >> Yeah, >> I like that. Observe. Observe. Focus on
119:19 >> I like that. Observe. Observe. Focus on the observation.
119:21 the observation. >> Focus on the experience.
119:23 >> Focus on the experience. >> Yeah. So, just to explain a little bit,
119:25 >> Yeah. So, just to explain a little bit, right? I know we touched on it.
119:26 right? I know we touched on it. >> So, so I I think a lot of people don't
119:28 >> So, so I I think a lot of people don't realize what the consequences of their
119:30 realize what the consequences of their actions are.
119:31 actions are. >> Mhm.
119:32 >> Mhm. >> So, just to give you a really simple
119:33 >> So, just to give you a really simple example, we have a bunch of, you know,
119:36 example, we have a bunch of, you know, kids that are on iPads right now. And so
119:39 kids that are on iPads right now. And so a lot of times what parents don't
119:41 a lot of times what parents don't realize is like
119:43 realize is like um you know when your kid throws a
119:45 um you know when your kid throws a temper tantrum and you give them the
119:47 temper tantrum and you give them the iPad to calm them down, you're just
119:50 iPad to calm them down, you're just training them to throw a temper tantrum.
119:53 training them to throw a temper tantrum. For kids that are slightly older, a lot
119:55 For kids that are slightly older, a lot of parents will be like, "Hey, come down
119:56 of parents will be like, "Hey, come down for dinner. Come down for dinner. Come
119:58 for dinner. Come down for dinner. Come down for dinner." Kid doesn't show up
119:59 down for dinner." Kid doesn't show up for dinner. They're 15 minutes late. You
120:01 for dinner. They're 15 minutes late. You go up there, you un unplug the
120:03 go up there, you un unplug the PlayStation, and you're like, "No
120:05 PlayStation, and you're like, "No PlayStation for a month."
120:07 PlayStation for a month." So what you're actually training your
120:09 So what you're actually training your child to do is ignore your words
120:13 child to do is ignore your words and until you unplug the PlayStation.
120:15 and until you unplug the PlayStation. Does that kind of make sense?
120:16 Does that kind of make sense? >> Yeah.
120:16 >> Yeah. >> So like the first six times you say
120:18 >> So like the first six times you say something, you're not reinforcing that
120:20 something, you're not reinforcing that at all. Right. So you're actually
120:22 at all. Right. So you're actually training them to ignore what you say,
120:24 training them to ignore what you say, which is why you have to con and then
120:26 which is why you have to con and then you have to take a drastic action to get
120:27 you have to take a drastic action to get them to listen. And parents feel insane
120:30 them to listen. And parents feel insane because now I'm having to go up and yell
120:32 because now I'm having to go up and yell at you all the time in order to get you
120:34 at you all the time in order to get you to do anything. That's because when you
120:36 to do anything. That's because when you speak gently, there is no consequence.
120:38 speak gently, there is no consequence. >> Mhm.
120:39 >> Mhm. >> So tie the consequence to the gentle,
120:42 >> So tie the consequence to the gentle, not the consequence to the yelling.
120:44 not the consequence to the yelling. Because if you tie the consequence to
120:45 Because if you tie the consequence to the yelling, you'll have to yell again.
120:47 the yelling, you'll have to yell again. That's how the way they'll they'll get
120:48 That's how the way they'll they'll get trained.
120:49 trained. >> So pay attention to what is happening.
120:52 >> So pay attention to what is happening. >> Not what you're doing.
120:53 >> Not what you're doing. >> That's a great explanation. I love that.
120:56 >> That's a great explanation. I love that. Uh the book is called How to Raise a
120:58 Uh the book is called How to Raise a Healthy Gamer: End Power Struggles,
121:00 Healthy Gamer: End Power Struggles, Break Bad Screen Habits, and Transform
121:02 Break Bad Screen Habits, and Transform Your Relationship with Your Kids. Uh Dr.
121:04 Your Relationship with Your Kids. Uh Dr. K. subscribe on YouTube as well if you
121:05 K. subscribe on YouTube as well if you don't subscribe uh to Dr. K's channel
121:07 don't subscribe uh to Dr. K's channel already. Dr. K, you're going to have to
121:08 already. Dr. K, you're going to have to come back
121:09 come back >> and do a bunch more episodes cuz we
121:11 >> and do a bunch more episodes cuz we didn't even talk about kids today.
121:13 didn't even talk about kids today. >> Yeah, we didn't talk about kids and I
121:14 >> Yeah, we didn't talk about kids and I still want to hear so much. I mean, like
121:16 still want to hear so much. I mean, like it's it's amazing. Um you know, your
121:18 it's it's amazing. Um you know, your background with the Gita and and stuff
121:20 background with the Gita and and stuff like that. So, I'm super curious because
121:22 like that. So, I'm super curious because you seem super grounded
121:24 you seem super grounded >> in that and and I haven't even read the
121:27 >> in that and and I haven't even read the whole thing. So, I I want to learn about
121:29 whole thing. So, I I want to learn about that.
121:29 that. >> More than happy to. Now we're now we
121:31 >> More than happy to. Now we're now we know each other. So, we should connect
121:32 know each other. So, we should connect offline as well. Absolutely, dude.
121:34 offline as well. Absolutely, dude. >> Yeah, such a pleasure, man. You're
121:35 >> Yeah, such a pleasure, man. You're amazing.
121:36 amazing. >> If you love this episode, you'll love my
121:38 >> If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabbor Mate on
121:41 interview with Dr. Gabbor Mate on understanding your trauma and how to
121:43 understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on
121:46 heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
121:47 from the past. >> Everything in nature grows only where
121:48 >> Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So, a tree doesn't grow
121:51 it's vulnerable. So, a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it? It
121:52 where it's hard and thick, does it? It goes with soft and green and vulnerable.
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