YouTube Transcript:
Interview with former CIA officer Sarah Adams
Skip watching entire videos - get the full transcript, search for keywords, and copy with one click.
Share:
Video Transcript
Available languages:
View:
Mula a founding member and second in the
lead of the Taliban was arrested in 2010
Karachi Pakistan this crucial leader of
the most sist and anti-woman group in
the world was arrested by a female CIA
agent Sarah Adams today Miss Adams tells
us about the details of M brother's
arrest I will also ask her about why the
United States never designated the
Taliban as a terror group and what kind
of threats can be expected from a
Taliban ruled
Afghanistan Miss Adams thank you so much
for this opportunity
thank you for having me so how long have
you been with the
CIA um when I was in the CIA I spent a
decade there so I left the CIA in
2015 why you joined and why you left can
you elaborate on
that yeah why I joined is pretty simple
my um graduate thesis was on cashmir so
there was only like two places I could
think to apply to jobs the CIA and the
state department you know to work in
that topic area
and I left because I was actually
recruited out I got recruited out um on
what was called the select committee in
Benghazi at the time and that's why I've
been working Libyan terrorism ever
since but you had like 10 years of very
close um experience on Afghanistan and
the Taliban and other Terror groups in
the region
right yes I started working in Pakistan
and Afghanistan um and then I shifted um
and I worked Libya and then Iran so I
have a good good combo of um a lot of
actors playing in Afghanistan today we
know that you were stationed in in
Pakistan but did you go to Afghanistan as
as
well no I've actually never been to
Afghanistan you worked on uh groups like
Taliban but you never went to Afghanistan
Afghanistan
why well actually the main group I
worked on was lashari jangi um a
Pakistani terrorist group I ended up
working on Taliban cuz I got asked to
fill um an empty spot um targeting the
Taliban and I took that like as a last
minute opportunity so it actually wasn't
my account okay that's interesting what
was this empty spot on the Taliban that
you took the
opportunity it was one of the targeting
positions um to go after the senior
leadership of the Taliban and that
position was the top three of the
Taliban who were these top three one was
M who were two
others yep um number one at the time was
Mula Omar and then number three at the
time was Mula octar Muhammad Mansour and
you were responsible only for mulab
brother or the two others as
well I was responsible for all three of
them okay
um how you got m m brother and not the two
two
others yeah I mean it was pretty simple
um I actually was under the assessment
Mula Omar stayed in Afghanistan um I
know a lot of people don't agree with
that assessment but that's what I
believed at the time and I believe to
this day and then um Mula Oar Muhammad
Mansour was very interesting he was
spending all of his time I'm an area of
Pakistan called Dal band deine it's a
refugee area it's very difficult as you
can imagine for anyone to operate in
there even the Pakistani um forces so he
was just like in a very tough um
location so really Mula braer was kind
of the easiest action but you know we
also hear that Mahar Mansour had great
relations with mrtis you would go he
would go to UAE and you know some
private jets will take him from Karachi to
to
Dubai I mean how that kind of you know
high-profile um you know uh travels
could be unnoticed by
CIA the the year I was there he was
pretty well mostly based that year um in
D bondan um of course we tracked him as
you know for for many many years but the
year I worked him um he wasn't moving
around a lot I'm not sure why um but he
really wasn't doing any sort of foreign
travel and he wasn't going into
Afghanistan either at the time as you
know in later years he um started going
to Afghanistan more and um that led to
his demise so you said that mulab was
the easiest one to track and and uh
capture why was
that it's because he was um based
actually in what we call the Pakistani
settled areas that's usually the cities
of like Islamabad Karachi laor and
sometimes Pasha can fall into that
category so like they're living among
the population um the Pakistani
population you know when um a terrorist
is in somewhere like a refugee camp or
something that's they're living among
their own population and that makes it
much harder but living among a mixed
Pakistani population is different so he
was living in a very upscale
neighborhood in Karachi called gani
Mayar so it wasn't like a refugee
Community there weren't a lot of like
Afghans living in that location it was
where um you know well off pakistanis
lived so it means that the Pakistani
government was probably aware of his
existence and uh whereabouts
right well I definitely think they were
aware of his existence in Pakistan um
now do they know the exact house he
lived in um I never saw indication of
that and he had multiple houses um as
you likely aware so I don't think that
um we know that for sure how long you
you followed him and tracked him one
year one year and he was only based in
that place or he was moving around
different uh houses and
cities yeah he was based going back and
forth between Kachi in qua Pakistan he
had another house in qua or was he uh
visiting qua to you know um meet other Taliban
Taliban
leaders he had two wives one was based
in Pakistan one was based in qua he had
to go between the two to visit his
families Karachi and
qua okay and how did you capture him
tell us about
that yeah I mean we can't give obviously
too many details about capture but you
know as I wrote in my book um it was
almost luck his um son had stolen an old
phone of his from the closet and brought
it on a trip with his father so
obviously um you know the phone became
active for a long period of time which
allowed us to track and locate um him
properly and how old was uh how old was this
this
son he was about 16 years old so they
were traveling from qua back to karach
or vice
versa it the other way Karachi qua and
then back when he returned to Karachi
you went
and how many people uh you were I mean
the CIA agents who were involved in this uh
uh
arrest obviously I can't give numbers um
we did wait till the phone came back to
Karachi because I made the assessment
that um a child might have taken the
phone or a family member because you
know it's not how a senior leader would
operate so we didn't want to
accidentally um as you can imagine
detain a wife or a child um so that's
why we waited until the phone returned
to where um we believed his house was
located did you involve Pakistani um
like police or intelligence
well how it works um I know a lot of
people like obviously if you've been in
Afghanistan and Iraq it's kind of a war
zone and there's a US military there in
every other country in the world as you
can imagine we have to work with the
foreign governments we can't just go out
and you know pick up people on the
streets um ourselves you saw when we did
that in Italy and it became a lot of um
problems you know after 911 so we always
work with the local um forces on these
type of things so Pakistani police or
cisi who who helped you with that well
how it works in Pakistan wherever you
are it has to be somebody with arrest
Authority so whatever City you're in you
have to have an element that has an
arrest Authority and that's the standard
for like us
law but when muladar was arrested you
went inside inside the house what did
you see there there were family like
children and woman or he was alone what
kind of situation was that
yeah I didn't go into the house but yeah
he was there with his family um it was a
family home it wasn't like a a safe
house or a militant headquarters um yeah
there was a woman and children um
present in the house and you arrested
only M brother
himself um we actually took three people
we re released the other two um so we
did really take like the three oldest
males and who were the other two uh
males one was the son who like I
assessed was likely underage and asked
him to be released and the other was a
nephew um and I'm not exactly sure who
made the decision on him but the other
was his his nephew who might have been
um a little older he could have been 18
or 19 years old okay did you did you
face any resistance uh from M brother
and his family while arresting him or what
what
happened you know from what I know
there's nothing out of the ordinary um
nothing um happened like from a physical
sense or with weapons or anything did
you have his uh photos because we never
saw his photo before his
arrest yeah um we didn't really have
what I would say an accurate photo of
him um when we detained him so no we did
we collected a photo after his arrest
okay but several photos were you know
published on media claiming as mulab
brother but those photos they weren't so
you are sure that this person that who
is mulab brother now the Deputy Prime
Minister of Taliban this is the guy you
arrested yes that's M Liberator that I
we I met yes so tell us what happened
after you arrested him uh did you take
him to your um office your station or what
what
happened well as I noted we're in a
foreign country right he stays in the
cust city of that foreign country um at
the time it was really interesting I had
thought maybe my government would
extradite him um usually we extradite
terrorists to New York we have a um a
kind of
a Judicial piece um in the southern
district of New York that puts in a lot
of charges against terrorism um that
never happened out of the US and I
actually also thought The Afghan
government would request he be
transferred somewhere like to Bam but
the only thing the afan government asked
for us to release him so he actually
remained in Pakistani custody because
the other two governments didn't put in
an extradition request but the question
remains you were ordered by your uh
agency CIA to arrest him to what so what
happens after
arrest yeah so obviously when he's in
the custody of an intelligence agency um
they ask questions and collect
intelligence you need someone to move
into a judicial process
to charge them right to give them a
sentence from like a judge and um nobody
in the US government actually ever put
that into place but you did the
questioning and
interrogation yes for um the first month a
a
month a monthlong introd then my year
ended yeah then my year ended and I went
home so during this month is there
anything interesting that you find out from
from
him I mean I can't really talk about you
know what he said but what I found
interesting was what my government was
interested in right and my government
only seemed to be interested in
reconciliation um when they gave us
questions for him so at that time even
in early 2010 there was really only a
plan to negotiate with the Taliban you
know from for some sort of government
sharing at the time they called it
reconciliation it obviously became the
Doha deal but that was already in play
in 2010 so that's what I found
interesting and that's what we focused
on in discussions with him did you find
any um interesting information about
taliban's relationship with isi and
taliban's relationship with Al-Qaeda and other
other
groups to be honest um our government
wasn't asking those kind of questions
which I think could be surprising to
people I found a lot of contempt between
how he felt toward
um isi in Pakistan and the way he
responded to things and dealt with
situations um he did not seem to have
any sort of positive view of isi or
Pakistan in any way from my opinion um
and I can't remember us really having
much of a discussion um regarding
Al-Qaeda at the time I'm sure you're
aware of the sentiment inside
Afghanistan you know when we were uh
watching this news as uh he was arrested
it was taken inside Afghanistan
especially especially inside the
government as a conspiracy by the
pakistanies to ruin the possibilities of
any peace talks between the Taliban and
hammed Karai's uh government
because hammed Karai's government was
kind of saying that mad was ready for peace
peace
STS yeah I've heard those conspiracies
um obviously it's not what happened
right it was just my job to capture the
top three and won the opportunity to
present himself and I C um captured him
the thing is though um the US assessment
at the time like our state Department's
assessment was there would be no
reconciliation with a Mula berer so our
US state department did have him um him
and taba as the top two to use for that
but mul berer was not um interested at
the time and he wasn't ready for Recon
ilation and he sure wasn't ready to do
it with United States or Pakistan so at
least at that time I make the assessment
for my interactions he had no
interest in participating yeah as I you
know just a bit more details about the
arrest and the interrogations as I
mentioned in the uh
introduction um you know a leader of One
of most misogynist groups in the world
anti-woman groups in the world
is being arrested by a
woman did he express any feelings or
reactions to that or how did you feel
when you arrested
him I mean I was happy to arrest him as
you can imagine because um you know it
was uh an important pillar of my job
right I was given three difficult
targets he was um he did not have any
issues that I was a woman um and he
treated me with respect right he's a
senior leader in an organization I think
he he knows how to um communicate with
people how to influence people and he's
very good at persuasion so I think he
knew um how to interact with me
appropriately and did it like he was
very professional in the way he handled
it what do you mean appropriate and
professional what do you mean can you
give us
details yeah well I think he knew right
he was under a microscope I mean he has
a very large ego he knows his importance
right he knows his value and he likely
knew um the president of the United
States was paying attention right so he
wanted to um show himself in the best
light possible you know being the number
two of you know the organization which
was the Taliban so in an interview you
said that you had a list of top 10 Taliban
Taliban
leaders uh what what were your orders
just to capture them or kill them as
well for the Taliban it was primarily to
capture them um as you said at the
beginning of the show they were never
designated a terrorist organization so a
lot of them we did not have like um a legal
legal
authority to um do some sort of um you
know to kill them essentially um you
know that there is authorities for that
I believe they were on Mula Omar but not
every member of the Taliban had those
because they weren't a designated
terrorist organization so was a little
more complicated than if we were talking
about the top three of al-Qaeda okay but
you killed Mahar mansur later after you
know he took over uh from mulab Omar yes
he got the authorities when he became
head of the Taliban and lethal
authorities were placed on him it was
after my time but yes they legally were
able to go after him in that capacity so
you mean legally the number one of the
Taliban were like uh in the um head
Target to be killed not number two and number
number
three yeah I don't remember if they were
on two and three at the time but I know
it was on um number one but for the most
part it wasn't on any Taliban members
and it was maybe on 20 Al-Qaeda members
okay I see but can you tell us why um
the US government never designated
Taliban as a terror organization while
other organiz ations such as TTP and
Al-Qaeda and others were U designated as Terror
Terror
organizations yeah it's a good question
it's something I fought the little bit
of time I work Taliban I was trying to
get them designated the problem is um
the big problem is our state department
right they viewed the Taliban as a
political organization um and there long
been hopes to do negotiations with the
Taliban as a political organization and
if they got designated obviously those
plans um couldn't go through so there's
always been push back you know it's not
just the state department um there there
were Afghans also advocating against
designated them you know like um Z kazad
you know is probably the most
influential to keep Taliban off the
terrorist um list so yeah there was a
lot of push internally but politically
um they just had too much lobbying um we
still have too much Taliban sympathizing
in the US government um and hurting us
even to this day and why was that why
they were lobbying for uh on behalf of
the Taliban what do you
think I mean part of it probably
corruption greed um there could be some
nationalism problems right it just could
be people who have a little more racism
against people in their own country I
mean I think there's probably a lot of
issues at Bay
unfortunately um and you know people
just take advantage of situations like
that I think a lot of people lobbying at
the time weren't doing in the best
interest Afghanistan they were doing it
probably in the best interest of
themselves and their family greed um and
how it's going to best impact them in
the future
unfortunately so yesterday uh State
Department spokesperson vidon Patel uh
called the Taliban a designated Terror
organization do you think it's a change
of policy or just a slip of tongue how
do you assist
that I mean I think it was a slip of
tongue I think if you went back and
pressed him though he could say well the
hakani network is a designated terrorist
group and he'll be able to get off on
his comment I do think it was a slip of
the tongue we do want our state
department to start calling them a
designated terrorist organization but
they aren't um and it is an issue and
they need to start doing it so you
mentioned hakani network hakani network
has been designated as terror group and
of course the leader of hakani network
saraj hakani is has a bounty on his head
but uh you know you know where he is Cia
knows FBI knows nothing happens to him
that yes why is that is the question um
you know I have a theory on it I you
know I hate to say theories but I
honestly think there might be people in
the US government that think sjin hakani
could be a counterbalance um to the
Russians you know we have a huge push in
our country right now focused on the war
in Ukraine um I think if this is a
decision they're making it's a very bad
policy decision right because um SJ is
two-faced right he plays all sides um
you know he's a threat he's he's a
threat to our homeland right um as most
Afghans know he's creating the passports
for the terrorists coming here so yeah I
think this is again uh the wrong
assessment on the Taliban and the wrong
assessment related to Afghanistan and
we've all been dealing with these bad
assessments now 20 years um we have to
change people's thoughts Sarah it is
very difficult for my audiences back
home in Afghanistan to accept such kind
of Assessments that you know a
superpower like the United States um
have bad assessments not for a year a
month or a decade but for you know this
long uh why you think uh people should
uh you know accept and Trust such kind
of Assessments that this is just you
know an error not a
policy oh no I think this is both an
error and a policy right um you know I
disagree completely um with this support
of sadin hakani right he should have
been detained the second he left
Afghanistan when he went to both UAE and
Saudi Arabia the problem is I think
there's people making probably very good
assessments within our government but
the there's politics involved we call it
the politicalization of intelligence
right and that influences intelligence
um you know I don't know if your
audience remembers but years back um
there was a lot of pressure from the in
to the intelligence analysts in our
government to downplay Isis right so now
the same thing's happening they're being
pressured to downplay what's happening
in Afghanistan be it the Taliban be it
Al-Qaeda you know Etc so yeah it's
politics is influencing the quality of
the assessments coming out okay so let's
come to the um the taliban's uh
relations with the other Terror groups
in Afghanistan and outside Afghanistan
according to the Doha deal Taliban have
to must you know cut ties with Al-Qaeda
TTP and others uh do you think they have
cut their ties with um
Al-Qaeda they 100% haven't cut their
ties with Al-Qaeda first they're
intermarried so they're almost the same
group um basically all the al-Qaeda
camps also have the Taliban on it and
then Taliban also funds Al-Qaeda so yeah
they're 100% involved in al-Qaeda so how
that can be go unnoticed by CIA and
other agencies in the United
States I don't think it's going un
notice I think for politics nobody's
being honest that it's happening um and
you know when something bad happens
they're all going to be in front of
Congress saying oh I didn't realize this
and um they're lying so there should be
an interest then you know um what is
that interest for the United States to
you know turn a blind eye on taliban's
relationship as you said with
Al-Qaeda the crazy part is um how it
works in the US government is like
they're like a dog like chasing a ball
and then when a new toy comes up he like
turns his head right and so the US has
done this shift right like we're
supposed to be focused on China we're
supposed to be focused on Russia we
don't want to care we don't want to hear
about counterterrorism they took a lot
of dollars from counterterrorism
departments right they they removed some
counterterrorism departments so there's
way less people working on this issue um
because the US doesn't want to make it a
priority like they don't actually lay
out what is the enemy think what threats
come from the enemy they focus on who
they want to be the enemy at a certain
time and it's a very bad policy um we
we're losing Wars because of it um as
you know and and the whole Middle East
is is blowing up um and nobody's doing
the right Focus they're responding after
the fact if you respond after the fact
you're doing nothing is there an
assessment within the US government that
Al-Qaeda is not a threat anymore to the
US or qaa has changed its goals
globally yeah I mean if you look at
earlier in the year in February the US
government so our office of um like
National Intelligence did put out an
assessment that basically Al-Qaeda is I
think they said in an operational like
pause almost that they couldn't project
forward that they couldn't command their
forces in outside locations so they did
put out an assessment the assessment
obviously is wrong and as you've seen
even over the last 6 to8 weeks we've
seen senior leaders in our government
having to say oh there is a threat there
is a problem we had the leader of our
national counterterrorism Center she's
stepping down but while stepping down
she put out an assessment on it which
she was involved in that report that
wasn't included our head of FBI just
said it last week right he was involved
in that report he didn't have it
included in the report at the time so
now they're doing um you know kind of a
cover your butt kind of situation
because they know they put out incorrect
assessment at the beginning of the year
once you mentioned that there are you
know family ties between Al-Qaeda
leadership and Taliban leadership
including malar's family uh how you can
prove that then what kind of
relationship is
that yeah I mean there's a lot of
relationships between the families um so
if you just talk about Mula Omar's
family for example right so his daughter
is married to the son of Osama bin Laden
it was actually his first wife um his
second wife H's a second wife the um
wedding was very public which made a lot
of people think that was his first wife
um so there's a lot of unknowns like
people don't know he had a first wife
when the marriage happened um and then
another really interesting um
relationship is actually Mula Omar's son
Mula yakub who runs the Taliban military
um you know he is obviously as you know
now the relationship I told you he's the
brother-in-law of Hamza Bin Laden and
then he's married to one of the
daughters of Mula berer right so when
you start kind of linking all these
families together you see a lot of these
senior leaders have these intermarriages
and then the hakan are intermarried um
among a lot of the senior um alqaeda
families too um to include the bin Laden
so yeah for 20 years they've been
intermarrying to where now if you think
about it Hamza Bin Laden can live in the
family compound of a hakani right
because they're blood related now so
it's very different than you know in
2000 do you have any information where
is Hamza Ben Laden and if he is active for
for
Al-Qaeda yeah I mean you know I I talked
about Hamza been Laden being in Kandahar
you know I'm not going to kind of keep
discussing his location you know if he
moves if he doesn't move um I don't
think he needs to know um what people
are tracking on him but he's very
involved in al-Qaeda he's leading
Al-Qaeda and he's actually involved in a
plot against the US homelands so yeah
he's very concerning and people need to
be focused on him you know the uh
killing of zawahiri uh former Al-Qaeda
leader in kabell raised a lot of
questions uh and also some you know
speculations uh about possible Taliban
some f factions of the Taliban um you
know helping the US with finding you
know giving uh away his location and
other other things do you think Taliban
helped CIA in finding his
location no I do think theis are the
ones that have been protecting him for
20 years um I think the CIA got lucky
and got information
um when um Dr Ziri made the decision to
move to Cobble too soon um and he you
know made a strategic error um you know
there was still plenty of people
obviously not supportive of the Taliban
at the time especially in the area he
moved into and I think he just moved at
the wrong time and I don't actually
think it was the hakan and I think even
as we see how they are still close right
zahir's family is still close to Sur
hakani right so the family also does not
think the Taliban gave him up
so you mean usama's Usama Bin Laden's
family sorry zaah you mean Za's family
doesn't think that he was uh given away
by the
Taliban yeah actually um I don't know if
a lot of people know but in February of
this year zari's brother Muhammad died
he was involved in our Benghazi attacks
like in planning them them um and he was
in custody in Egypt well they held this
ceremony for him in Kandahar and zahir's
family came in you know a lot of senior
terrorists came in and yeah there was no
animosity between um zahir's Family
Al-Qaeda um any member of the Taliban or
the hakes um you know when that that
memorial went down so I think that's
more um people making conspiracies than
being real life okay you know recently
the tur ish
government um they stopped allowing uh
people with Afghanistan um diplomatic
passports coming into turkey uh without
the Visa and some people told us that it
is related to Taliban issuing passports
to some terrorists including members of
al-Qaeda is that true do you know
anything about
that it's likely the reason I think
they're not doing it right though um you
know the Taliban has issued over 6,000
passports um to Terrace now the
Diplomatic passports are issued to
basically the senior leadership of the
Taliban many of them are terrorists but
if you want to stop like I don't know an
Egyptian with it or an Iraqi or a
Jordanian or a Kuwaiti whomever they're
not being issued the Diplomatic
passports they're just being issued the
regular passports any Afghan National
would get so I think turkeyy is trying
to act like they're solving a problem
but they're not going to get any of the
foreign terrorists issue the passports
with that plan but I do think it sounds
like they're attempting to deal with it 6,000
6,000
passports how do you know
that well I've heard the number from
numerous people um so um numerous people
ACC okay no numerous people in Media or
intelligence or CIA or what do you mean
how you can prove it yeah I mean well
one of the issues is as you can imagine
a lot of my libyans are leaving Libya
and they're going to Afghanistan and
also getting these passports um and one
of the individuals making the passports
is actually a Libyan his name is Abdul
aim Ali Musa Ben Ali I've been working
on him for over a decade um very heavily
so um yeah I have a lot of information
of him making these pass reports or
being directing them to be made um
personally so I have it from a lot of
different sourcing um in North Africa um
in Afghanistan Etc where is he located
in Afghanistan or
Libya yeah he's located in Afghanistan
and he um gets paid by the ministry of
interior um in Afghanistan to make
passports for these foreign
Nationals yeah he does a lot of things
one of his roles is to make sure like
Al-Qaeda has these passports but he's
actually involved in the operational
planning for Al-Qaeda attacks in the
Middle East he does that with scial auto
so he's not just like the passport guy
he's an operational Commander as well so
how these passports are um used so
far well the interesting thing is um
because they I have seen some of these
passports and I have seen foreigners
that I know um and the passport is an
Afghan person and Afghan name on it but
they photos on it the interesting part
is from what I've been told um a number
of them have used them to come to the US
in some capacity the majority of them
either tried to go to Iran or turkey and
then they
um traveled to somewhere like Brazil Etc
and they came up you know through Latin
America um in a trying to cross our
border the interesting part is in the us
um we're very sympathetic to Afghans
even at the southern border right
because a lot of people worked in
Afghanistan over the years they've been
impacted by the the failed withdrawal
right so it actually is better to come
to our border even illegally and be an
Afghan right so um they might drop the
passports at the border and come in and
be someone else when they're in country
right but it is a big problem um I don't
know what all they're doing it for one
is just to live in Afghan istan so they
have now Afghan identities and they're
getting paid like welfare right so they
get money to support their families by
the Taliban government in Afghanistan
under their now fake Afghan names um and
it's just a wellfare terror system
that's been created so you're saying
that they're using Afghanistan passport
to come to the southern borders of uh
United States to come to the United
States and you know do some Terror
activities or just seek
Asylum I think obviously the terrorists
who got the Afghan passports is to seek
I mean to commit attacks I do think
there are people who were in bad
situations right that had to get um
passports on the black market just to
get out of Afghanistan so definitely not
everybody with an Afghan passport is
here to commit terrorist attacks but
when a foreigner so if you're like a um
Egyptian and you have an afghan passport
yeah um you're not here to commit you
know to be a refugee you're here to um
commit damage so you're saying that the
US authorities have noticed this kind of
cases and have they arrested anyone
or have do they have anything under
investigation yeah well the really
interesting thing is the US is finding a
lot of these passports like thrown away
alongside of the order so they've been
discarded um the other problem is is
some are using these identities so like
like let's say um you come in and your
name now is U Muhammad Khan and you have
a new birthday and it's Afghan passport
right and maybe you're a Pakistani you
now go into the system as Muhammad Khan
with this date of birth um from
Afghanistan so the US can't vet you
against Pakistani data because they
don't have any clue you're a Pakistani
right like they're not able to
background check you appropriately so I
don't think they've come up with a
solution to this problem um and it's
it's it's a major issue right we right
now have reportedly 50 Isis members in
the United States that they can't locate
and you think they have come from
Afghanistan or other
places it could be a number of places
Isis has moved here from Afghanistan
they've actually moved here from India
um you know there could have been some
who moved from you know Iraq and Syria
North Africa you know Isis is you know
and then turkey is the huge Transit
point for Isis so they could be a number
of nationalities and um left from a
number of
locations okay um so what kind of
threats you think one can be expect from
uh you know an Afghanistan under the
control of um Taliban or uh you know
these concerns can be uh you know
labeled as uh partisan politics uh also
you know and also some some people who
are naysayers and cannot accept the new
reality which is Taliban controlling
Afghanistan yeah I think there's
different rings of threats as you go out
right so I think if you start in
Afghanistan um besides the the ongoing
threat to the population um just the
closest emanation of Pakistan out right
I mean Afghanistan out so they can go to
Pakistan right um as we've seen this
increase um in their support to TTP
attacks but they also ascending Fighters
the other way they're sending fighters
to Iraq and um Syria um they're
basically getting ready for the US to
pull out of those locations so they can
kind do do the same thing they did in
Afghanistan right they want to repeat
Afghanistan in Syria and Afghanistan and
then Molly of all things so then you do
another ring out right and you start
talking about a Yemen Saudi Arabia Mali
and in those cases they become a
different threat they they're focused on
the embassies right they're like hey if
we attack us British whomever embassies
French we can push them out of these
locations right obviously we've had this
this ongoing even since Benghazi right
we got attacked at a cons in Benghazi we
left we never went back right the
terrorists saw that they've learned from
that and then the final ring when you go
out from the embassy threat is the
attack on you know the European Homeland
and the US Homeland which Al-Qaeda is
planning those attacks right Isis is
planning um similar attacks so yeah
there's a lot of ripples coming out of
Afghanistan um that they're going to
cause a lot of deaths unfortunately and
like you said people are putting their
head in the sand and almost waiting for
it to happen and in of being proactive against
against
it you know in recent years we see a
kind of a negative uh approach between
uh Pakistan and the
Taliban um especially on the issues of
related to TTP do you think uh this you
know negative developments are real uh
do you think given the fact that Taliban
and Pakistan have been especially isi
have been closed for for from the beginning
beginning
uh or you think it's just a
showoff yeah well I think you know a
long time back um Taliban and the
Pakistan's isai were in lock step right
um when white was like hummed G ran it
he then kind of got a little sideline
pushed out by his government and he
still ran it all on the side right and
then uh isi kind of restructured and as
you know director at s was like the main
body um supporting Taliban but then they
had a whole other directorate right
playing another game the counter
terrorism directorate That Was Then
capturing um senior Taliban in Pakistan
at the beest of America and that's where
the problem lies so now the terrorists
who are
leading um the the Taliban know of all
those arrests most of those arrests
haven't even been made public but they
know who was all arrested what happened
and they've made the assessment they
can't trust Pakistan not just because of
what happened over the last 15 years
with all the captures but they believe
it's Pakistan who can bring the us back
in and do operations against them and so
Pakistan now is a threat to them and
that's why they're leaning in more and
supporting TTP more right because they want
want
to make it expensive for Taliban to deal
with TTP to um weaken their defenses
right um to cost them money um and then
hopefully to basically take pieces of
the fata or kyum pakun walk Etc and make
it a part of
Afghanistan it's so you're expecting an
expansion of Taliban emirat into some uh
tribal areas of uh Pakistan is that
assessment even realistic given tal
Pakistan is a nuclear power
there I think it's realistic for them to
definitely get some
land and maybe large swasa land because
it's not like Pakistan's going to use
the nuclear weapons against Afghanistan
so the terrorist don't view the nuclear
weapons like the West does right
terorists don't even Factor them in when
they're planning right they're they're
focused on let's get the locals behind
us let's get a movement uh against
Pakistan behind us right let's get a
nationalist type of thing behind us um
and that's really what they're focused
on I mean they actually do have a fought
War plan they call it so they're very
focused and they're not concerned at all
about nuclear weapons and you think all
factions of the Taliban including hakan and
and
habah you know Powerhouse and Mal
brother and um M and others they are all
on the same page when it comes to
dealing with TTP or there are some you
know divides
I think there's there's divides but
they're small they're not as big as um
people think they all have different
focuses right so you know SJ hakani has
a million focuses and he's doing a lot
of things so he's not as far into this
fat War plan plus I think he's playing
the game right if something happens in
Afghanistan I want to be able to still
fall back to Pakistan right but if
you're talking about like
hula um Al-Qaeda Al-Qaeda Indo
subcontinent and then there's a
political group in Pakistan called juif
they're all in lock step and planning
together to do this kind of land grab in
Pakistan is a joint um effort and what
they're doing is they are going to
utilize TTP actually the talibans been
rotating units through TTP so when TTP
does attacks there's usually a couple
members of the Taliban in those attacks
um for for numerous reasons but one is
so when Pakistan says Afghans were
involved they think they're crazy right
and it's to get the population um
supportive of it because for many years
Pakistan lied I I lived in Pakistan
right there would be a suicide bombing
in lore and I'd go in and see him and
they're like it's an Afghan and then two
days later I'd see the person's head and
it was some you know Punjabi you know
who who grew up in in southern Punjab in
Pakistan so Taliban smart and they're
playing on these false negtive
narratives that have occurred over the
years they have a really great
strategy yeah but it's hard to believe
that Taliban would go against Pakistan
given you know over two decades um
American generals and you know uh
leaders politicians always said that
there is a very close tie between isi
and Taliban leadership especially hakani
Network so how one can expect hakan is
going against the pakistanis
yeah I mean the way I look at it is they
feel um Pakistan um sold them out right
remember there was a strike against
sadin sadin hakan's family killed his
wife and kids in Pakistan you have to
remember there's very negative feelings
for from the Taliban for what Pakistan
allowed the us to do and now the Taliban
is in a situation where they don't need
Pakistan nobody needs Pakistan that's
the problem so the Taliban have cutter
right they have US Dollars coming in
they have Chinese Investments dollars
coming in they have Goods Force dollars
coming in right they don't need Pakistan
ever again and I think that's the Future
Okay from Pakistan China Russia India
and Iran like four big players in the
region uh what do you think Taliban have
the closest uh relations and ties
now I think um like terrorist militant
operational alignment it's Iran I think
um India it's the you know let's give it
to Pakistan um but I don't think India
is putting the kind of money in that um
the US is doing and cter is doing and
China's doing um and Iran's doing China
is China they're just going to deal who
who with who's there they don't care if
they're into Power this year or next
year they're going to do their their
grab of um all the minerals they want to
get and then when a new government comes
in they'll really negotiate they don't
care they're used to dealing with these
type of governments all over Africa
there's coups all the time so it's China
it's just a mute point um and then
Russia's really interesting Russia
thinks they need to work with the
Taliban to deal with ISP right but they
don't realize the taliban's involved in
some of that so um I think Russia's just
going to get burnt just like the US has
gotten burnt on this um Taliban
relationship so Iran is the one to watch
that I think is going to be the most
concerning going forward and where
they'll have the most impact but uh
Donald Trump now running again for
president in the United States uh
mentioned at least twice the background
Airfield and how Chinese are controlling
them so he didn't mention Iran or Russia
or anything do you think if he comes to
power what kind of you know how you
assess this statement by Trump does it
show any signs of his uh willingness to
go back to Afghanistan or it's just a
you know narrative for for
elections yeah I think he was making the
point we shouldn't have given up bogram
look we did in another country which is
our rival China decided it was a
strategic point and they took it right
so I think he was making a point there
um I think a lot of American voters are
actually on the fence on the Afghanistan
issue because Trump's campaign has not
come out yet right and said what their
plan is or what their intent is or if
they'll end the Doha deal right so there
are a lot of questions and people are
making assumptions but until they show
us some sort of policy I think we're
just guessing um and people do really
feel you know during his administration
that at least you know our secretary of
state of time Mike Pompeo was played
right by muler berer um and we want to
ensure right he brings
in he wins really was he played or that
was the policy that was what United States
States
wanted well I think us wanted it but
they assumed it would be a Powers
sharing government they assumed tal they
were dreaming um but they assumed
Taliban would have a piece of the
government and someone else but
obviously that's a lie because they
would have them at the table right so I
think they thought it would just work
out and they actually put no plan in
place I mean it was a horrible policy
but part of the policy was influenced by
what the Taliban was telling them and
what you know Z was telling them right
so they were basing it off of Taliban
information not the information from
like Afghans you know who work in their
government and stuff like that okay my
last two questions first uh what are uh
the two or three you know policy options
for the next American president this
next American
Administration towards I
mean yeah I mean at least when you talk
to the community involved in this I mean
there's three different things at least
Americans care about right uh you know
obviously protecting our allies um you
know getting them to safety or getting
them released from Taliban prisons Etc
stopping the money going to the Taliban
because it's being proliferated to
multiple terrorist groups to include
Al-Qaeda and then desting the Taliban a
terrorist organization first to stop
their advancements but second to make
sure they don't receive any sort of
international recognition I mean
countries are being very soft on the
Taliban they're they're letting them
travel into their Nations like these are
terrorists right this is a threat to the
whole world so these are the policy
issues Americans care about now will our
policy makers step up and do the right
thing you know there's no guarantees
there yeah and the last question what
will happen if these policies are not
adopted by the us next uh
Administration yeah I think it'll even
happen before the end of the next
Administration there's going to be
attack on the US Homeland and then all
policies are going to change and and
it's going to affect everybody as you
can imagine it's going to probably stop
um the immigration of Afghans to America
um and it's going to start a whole
another branch of of this this war and
teror that nobody wants thank you so
much SAR Adams thank you Sammy thank you [Music]
[Music] [Applause]
[Applause] [Music]
Click on any text or timestamp to jump to that moment in the video
Share:
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
One-Click Copy125+ LanguagesSearch ContentJump to Timestamps
Paste YouTube URL
Enter any YouTube video link to get the full transcript
Transcript Extraction Form
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
Get Our Chrome Extension
Get transcripts instantly without leaving YouTube. Install our Chrome extension for one-click access to any video's transcript directly on the watch page.
Works with YouTube, Coursera, Udemy and more educational platforms
Get Instant Transcripts: Just Edit the Domain in Your Address Bar!
YouTube
←
→
↻
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc
YoutubeToText
←
→
↻
https://youtubetotext.net/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc