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P1: "Who Killed Joseph Smith?" Documentary

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Summary

Core Theme

This content critically examines the historical accounts of the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith at Carthage Jail, employing forensic analysis and historical research to challenge traditional narratives and propose alternative theories about the events.

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so [Music]

thirty years ago

i came to nauvoo for my first time it

was awesome to go around nauvoo and see

all of the

historical things that i have heard

about my whole life and then at one point

point

a group was going to come over to

carthage and they asked me to come with

them to see if i wanted to see the jail

but i said no

and that makes no sense why i would have

said no because i wanted to see everything

everything

not long after that trip i served a

mission for the church in greece and

then got married

a few years later i graduated from byu

and began my career in business and then

spent the next few decades raising my family

family

but in all that time when i thought

about my visit to nauvoo i always

regretted not seeing carthage

here we are 30 years later

coming to check it out

[Music]

the first thing i want to see at

carthage is the window where joseph was

i go to it immediately and look for any

signs of musket shots striking the

stones around the opening

i don't find anything

i walk 50 60 and then 70 feet back from

the window trying to figure out if the

mob outside of the jail that day could

get a clear shot on hiram with their muskets

muskets

i can easily see inside of the bedroom

where joseph hiram john taylor and

willard richards were being held

i see the same door the mob shot through

twice before entering the room

i'm taking measurements and making

calculations and it hits me what really

happened here

in this moment the story of the

martyrdom becomes even more real for me

forensic detectives call it losing your

grip when the science takes a back seat

to the human tragedy that has taken

place at a crime scene

i try not to get emotional but it's impossible

impossible

i'm feeling waves of anger mixed with sadness

sadness

all of this is adding to my drive to

understand this mystery all i care about

for now is figuring out exactly what

happened in the two to three minutes

when joseph and hiram were killed [Music]

[Music]

on june 7 1844

william law a disaffected mormon

publishes the first issue of the navu

expositor attempting to rally

anti-mormons against the church in

nauvoo by calling out the alleged evils

the naavo city council declares the

expositor to be a nuisance

two days later they send the town

marshal to destroy their press

destroying the press ignites outrage

from citizen groups in hancock county

who call for the removal of the

latter-day saints from illinois

convinced an attack on navu is imminent

on june 18th joseph proclaims martial

law and calls out the navu legion to

protect the city

one week later the members of the city

council surrender themselves to

authorities at carthage

all are released on bail except joseph

and hiram

who at the last moment are falsely

accused of treason

a capital offence

the brothers are moved to carthage jail

to await their trial

where governor ford promises they will

be protected [Music]

[Music]

on june 27 1844

two days before their scheduled trial an

armed mob storms the jail and joseph and

the next day the bodies of joseph and

hiram are carried back to navu on wagons

in the afternoon of june 29th

boxes with sandbags are taken and

publicly buried in the navu city cemetery

cemetery

sometime around midnight the coffins

which contain the real bodies are

secretly buried in the basement of the

navu house

that next spring on may 21 1845

1845

the trial begins

john taylor urges his fellow latter-day

saints to refuse to testify

warning them that their lives could

still be in danger

nine days after the trial begins

all five defendants in the smith

brothers murder case are found not guilty

that fall all navu council members

charged in the destruction of the navu

expositor are also acquitted by a jury

joseph and hiram are now dead

joseph was the leader of the church and

hiram would have been the second in

command and they are both gone

next in command most likely would have

been samuel their younger brother within

a few weeks samuel was also dead under

suspicious circumstances

the crazy thing is nobody investigated

his death ever and nobody began the

investigation on joseph and hiram's

deaths either until a few months later a

new sheriff was voted in for the county [Music]

and he began a huge investigation and in

the end he indicted nine different men

now four of those men as soon as they

got word that they were indicted they

fled the county and that's a shame

because three of those four men were

actually injured by joseph at carthage

so the fact that they had been shot by

joseph says they were right there on the spot

spot

now out of the remaining five men

most likely none of them

were in carthage or pulling triggers of

guns however they're the ones that

convinced everybody to come to carthage

to get joseph and hiram so

those five men couldn't actually be

arrested for murder

but they were brought in on charges of

conspiracy to commit murder

and then the trial began now the trial

started out all of the members of the

jury were mormons members of the church

but at the last second the

defense attorney made a motion to the

judge to change out the jury

because they were afraid that that jury

you know they were all mormons and

and

the judge agreed and completely changed

the jury with all of the people that

were there on site

now the biggest problem with this court

case is our two biggest witnesses john

taylor and willard richards were not

there to testify

john taylor had sent out to all the

people in the community

do not testify at that trial so the two

main eyewitnesses weren't even there to

tell their story

so those five remaining men were all

acquitted you know this is one of the

most consequential crimes in american history

history

it only took about nine days

now

what would have happened

if john taylor and willard richards

would have testified

i mean they had

the full eyewitness accounts they were

in the room when it all happened they

should have seen the mob members that

were there

if anybody knew who pulled that trigger

to kill joseph and hiram it should have

willard richards and john taylor are the

only other men inside the jail at

carthage when joseph and hiram smith are killed

killed

both are ordained apostles in the church

and richards is a personal scribe to joseph

joseph

richards publishes his eyewitness

account in the na'vi neighbor four weeks

after the martyrdom on july 24 1844

john taylor waits until after willard

richard's death nearly 10 years later to

give his first public account of the

martyrdom at a conference in salt lake city

city

the richards and taylor accounts have

been the basis for telling the story of

the martyrdom since 1844.

the following reenactment is based on

on june 27 1844

four men remain in the jailer's bedroom

on the second floor of carthage jail

joseph smith

hiram smith john taylor

and willard richards

joseph has a sick shooter pepper box

revolver smuggled into him that morning

by cyrus willock

hiram holds a single shot pistol brought

in by john fulmer

taylor and richards each have a walking

just after five o'clock a mob of 100 to

the door to the bedroom has no lock and

according to willard richards when the

mob comes this time

joseph hiram taylor and richards close

the door and brace themselves against it

according to john taylor only hiram and

richards lean against the door

pressing into it with their shoulders to

prevent it from being opened

it's important to understand the

position of the four men against the

wall and the door when the mob first comes

comes

that first shot enters right about here

so if all four of them were against the

door at the same time it seems

impossible to me that one of them would

when that first bullet comes through the

door both taylor and richards agree that

the men scatter they move to the sides

and hiram comes 10 feet back from the

the mob shoots a second ball through the

panel of the door it strikes hiram on

the left side of his nose at the same

time a ball is shot from outside of the jail

jail

through the east window it strikes hiram

in his lower back

passes through his body and strikes the

watch in his front right vest pocket

he falls backwards

as he hits the floor he exclaims

i'm a dead man

my room never moves again

the richards and taylor accounts differ

on what happens after hiram is killed

according to richards joseph looks

towards hiram lying on the floor and exclaims

exclaims

oh dear brother hiram immediately joseph

opens the door two or three inches with

his left hand he reaches around with the

sick shooter in his right hand and

begins firing shots randomly into the entry

according to taylor joseph does not

immediately begin firing through the doorway

doorway

rather joseph goes to his brother leans

over him and exclaims oh my poor dear

joseph rises pulls the sick shooter from

his pocket and goes back towards the door

door

he opens it slightly and fires his

pistol six successive times

both richards and taylor report that

joseph is now unarmed

the mob continues sticking their muskets

through the doorway and firing

taylor uses his stick to knock down the muskets

muskets

a ball grazes hiram's breast and enters

his throat passing into his head

two more balls strike his body

and another just below his left knee [Music]

[Music]

after seeing hiram killed and joseph is

out of bullets

taylor worries the mob will enter the room

room

he rushes to the window hoping to escape

a ball shot from the doorway enters his

right thigh and causes him to fall into

a ball shot from outside the window

strikes the pocket watch in his vest

pocket and throws him back into the room

onto the floor and for a moment he is

taylor regains enough strength to roll

under the bed

a shot from the door cuts away a piece

of flesh from his left hip

willard richards continues knocking away

the muskets aimed through the door with

his walking stick

another ball strikes taylor a little

below the left knee and another enters

his left wrist and lodges in his hand

according to john taylor's

own telling of the events he was struck

five times

while he was over here against the wall

you know knocking down the bayonets with

his walking stick when he could see that

joseph smith had run out of ammo he

decides to make an escape over to the

window so he's running over to the

window and he gets shot and that causes

him to fall into the windowsill

and he's falling out the window and the

way that he tells the story is a shot

comes from out of the window and hits him

him

in his pocket watch that's in his vest pocket

pocket

that throws him from out of the window

back onto the floor and on the floor

when he gains his movement back he's

moving under the bed and gets shot in

the left hip he gets shot in the left

hand just here in the wrist below the

left hand traveling up below the fingers

and then he gets struck just below his

left knee [Music]

[Music]

i had often remarked to miss taylor the

singular fact of finding myself inside

the room when i felt a moment before

after being shot that i was falling out

and i never could account for it until then

then

but here the thing was fully elucidated

and was rendered plain to my mind

i was indeed falling out when some

villain aimed at my heart

the ball struck my watch and forced me back

back

if i had fallen out i should assurely

have been killed if not by the fall by

those around

and this ball intended to dispatch me

was turned by an overruling providence

into a messenger of mercy and saved my life

life

i felt that the lord had preserved me by

a special act of mercy

that my time had not yet come and that i

still had a work to perform upon the earth

earth

the story of john taylor's miraculous

preservation has been an integral part

of telling the story of the martyrdom

for hundreds of years

most martyrdom researchers agree today

that taylor's watch was never struck by

a musket ball

in the late 90s

several individuals began to question

the long accepted narrative

including curators at the lds church

history museum

where the watch is currently on display

so these are two

comparable watches

from that time

if you see the watch in the museum that

was in john taylor's pocket you can see

there's barely any damage to it

the hands are missing on it now but you

can see that front hole in the face of

the watch

but if you look really closely in that

picture you can see the little gear

in that hole

so what i believe happened is the same

thing that every carthage researcher

today believes happened

and that's that

when jon fell against the window seal it

smashed the watch together

causing that gear to pop that hole out

on the front of the watch i agree with

the researchers on this one that

with taylor under the bed joseph

attempts to leap from the same window

two balls pierce him from the door and

one enters his right breast from outside

the window he falls out of the window

exclaiming oh lord my god

richards carries the badly injured

tailor into the jail cell in the

adjoining room

as he is laid at the head of the stairs

he has a full view of hiram

john taylor's last words in his account are

are

later

when actually incarcerated in the jail

joseph the prophet

bore a powerful testimony

of the divine authenticity

shortly thereafter

pistol and ball

would take the lives of these

two testators hearing elder holland say

that the martyrs were killed with pistol

and ball catches my attention

willard richards and john taylor both

stated clearly that the mob had shot

joseph and hiram with muskets

elder holland gave this talk in october

of 2009

their honor

and their own search for eternal

salvation if you're a carthage purist

this whole scene is problematic it's

taken from a movie called joseph smith

the prophet of the restoration

the screenplay was written by gary cook

of the church's curriculum department

with input from the first presidency and

originally released in december of 2005.

did you notice the mob member fires a

pistol through the door instead of a musket

musket

this movie may have been where elder

holland got his information for his talk

notice how hiram is hit while he's still

holding the door shut

contrary to the taylor and wilford

accounts that state hiram was standing

10 feet back from the door when he was struck

struck

lastly did you notice when hiram is on

the floor and joseph is holding him but

the mob has not yet entered the room

how's this even possible the door has no

latch joseph and hiram are pushing the

door closed with all their might to keep

the mob out and somehow when they're on

the floor the angry mob doesn't rush in

and kill everyone in the room this whole

scene makes absolutely no sense

i know i'm being too hard on a movie

clip it's just one man's interpretation

for dramatic effect right

but even if it wasn't meant to be

historically accurate it's still very

curious what kind of guns were the mob

using oh that's a great question now i

don't remember off the top of my head

but for more detail about the mob and

the things that they um that they did

and how the events played out you can

read saints the first volume there's

chapter 44 it gives a full account of

the martyrdom and the events that happen

that night i look up the chapter in the

book the saints that the sister

missionaries recommended to us

this book was published in 2018 and it

confirms what i had been thinking all day

day

the lds church no longer accepts the

eyewitness accounts as they were given

by john taylor and willard richards

you can see hiram's hands on the door

when the second shot is fired through

the door panel

this book now presents the new official

narrative for the church john taylor and

willard richards said hiram was shot in

the back through the window by a musket

of a mob member outside of the jail but

this book describes hiram getting shot

in the back while stumbling away from

the door

so let me sum up the evolution of the

church's narration on what actually

happened at carthage

in the late 90s historian glenn leonard

former director of the lds museum of

church history claims in his book that

john taylor's watch was never shot

citing the unpublished research of neil

and gail ord

then in 2005

gary cook from the church curriculum

department writes the screenplay for the

movie joseph smith the prophet of the restoration

restoration

which alters

several major details from the

traditionally accepted story of the martyrdom

martyrdom

then in october of 2009 elder holland

says pistol and ball in his talk about

the martyrdom

this is the first time a general

authority from the lds church in

conference alters the john taylor and

willard richards eyewitness accounts

finally in 2018 the altered narrative is

officially published in the book called

the saints which is now the story

pointed to by church representatives at

carthage as the official lds church

narrative for the martyrdom

i have to admit

i didn't notice when the church made any

of these changes but now looking back i

can see them all so clearly

the church has known that there was a

problem with the eyewitness accounts for

a couple of decades now

and to their credit they've done a lot

of their own

really good research and they've come up

with their own theory to explain

how the narrative can still fit the

eyewitness accounts however the church

was not the first to begin this work

that would be mormon church historian

john hyacik who back in the early 1990s

began a series of seminars going through

what he believed really happened at carthage

carthage [Music]

working with rare latter-day saint

documents for about 40 years i started

looking at documents in 1980

i had some

very rigorous

historical training as a child beginning

in about 1973

but in 1980 when we moved to wisconsin i

began to examine early mormon documents

from the naval and kirtland periods or

the origins of the church

i met john a couple of years ago and

there's not a lot of people that know

more about the life and history of

joseph smith he takes the story of what

i had visited carthage so many times now probably

probably

50 times that i visited carthage and 150

times probably that i visited navau

being that i live in the area

so john's probably one of the top five

experts in the world on what happened at

carthage so when he started asking

questions people paid attention and

that's exactly the spark that we needed

to get the story of the martyrdom back

in the mind of the public

mostly the angles the angle the

possibility of hiram smith being shot in

the back and having that bullet come

from the outside that makes no sense

and you can stand outside of the

carthage jail and go down to the mission

home and go down a little farther and go

down a little farther and try to figure out

out

where you can

see the middle of the door

and i'm not going to all the

measurements or anything but just try to

see the middle of the door from some

distance you have to go quite out some

distance now imagine the window closed

or open

it just didn't add up for me it just

didn't seem plausible

that 200 of your best friends just went

rushing up the stairs and you're a half

a block away

and the first thing that pops into your

head is i've got a clean shot through

the window

up there where all my friends are having

a skirmish

and that just doesn't fit

so one of the first inconsistencies that

every true carthage researcher points

out is the angles

the angles of how hiram was shot from

outside of the

jail into his lower back those angles

just do not add up

in 2016 a video was posted on youtube

called the carthage conspiracy

the video appears to be a copy of a

presentation delivered much earlier than 2016.

2016.

the presenter also named joseph smith

has a background in black powder rifles

and is well versed in the muzzle energy

of a 19th century musket

he makes the same case as jon hyack that

the angles from the shots fired outside

of the jail cannot be realistic stories

about the carthage

murders are just filled with

inconsistencies there's a hundred

inconsistencies in the stories between

will and richards and john taylor

and against the

other evidence that we have [Music]

ballistic experts have identified the

mob most likely used the 69 caliber us

model 1816 flintlock muskets with a

smooth bore

willard richards mentions bayonets twice

in his testimony the 1816 musket came

with an attached bayonet making it the

prime candidate as the weapon used by

the mob today

the 1860 musket was shot with

approximately 2 100 foot-pounds of energy

energy

in comparison

a round shot from a 30-out 6 today

contains approximately 2300 foot-pounds

of energy which is enough to shoot

through a steel plate over 50 yards away

for our own tests we've chosen to use a

shotgun slug fired through a smooth bore

barrel with only 1

650 foot pounds of energy

that's 20 percent less firepower than

the 1816 musket we purposefully chose to

use a round with less muzzle energy to

account for mob members who might not

have put the full amount of gunpowder

willard richards

said that after hiram was shot through

the door to the left of the nose

he fell on his back

and while he was

laying on his back he never moved again

and there was another shot that came

from the door from a musket that grazed

his chest and entered here into his

throat so we're gonna try and simulate

that shot

with this angle

shooting a parallel hitting here and

we'll see if it you know exits out of

and they say that

hiram's head supposedly he was still

leaning against the door when he was

shot rather than being 10 feet back

so we're going to recreate that just to

can you see now why elder holland said

pistol and ball

i can tell you from my own experience

there is no way hiram was shot twice in

the head with a musket there is no

throughout the 1990s

muzzle energy and shot angles were the

main two talking points but in the 2000

three new pieces of evidence that came

to light that are much harder to explain

first was the bullet hole angle in the

panel of the door

second are the photos of hiram's skull

and third are the blood stains on

hiram's clothing

david lyon was the first to come up with

the idea of inserting a laser pointer

through the hole in the door panel to

determine the path of the musket ball

that supposedly struck hiram in the face

the ball was traveling five degrees

downward and was aimed slightly to the

right and would have hit just below the windowsill

windowsill

had hiram been standing in the path of

this bullet 10 feet back from the door

it would have struck him in his

abdominal area and not his face

in 1928

the skeletal remains of joseph and hiram

were discovered under the brick

foundation of a small building not far

from emma's grave

president smith of the rlds church

authorized the removal of joseph and

hiram skulls from the ground so they

could be examined further

they were taken to an upper room in the

mansion house and photographed and measured

measured

as you can see

there are no visible exit wounds in the

back or top of hiram's skull

so we now know

because of the angle of this shot

through the door

that there was no way

if it traveled and hit hiram while he

was standing right here that it could

have hit him in the face it would have

hit him somewhere in the abdomen secondly

secondly

we also know that there's no way that he

could have been shot twice in the head

because we can see the skull and there's

no exit wound from either of those shots

the shot that struck hiram in the back

penetrated his vest shirt pants and pantaloons

pantaloons

another bullet entered hiram's leg just

below the left knee and a fourth bullet

struck hiram on his right thigh

mary fielding smith hiram's widow

carefully preserved hiram's clothing and

brought them to the salt lake valley in 1848

1848

the eldest son of the hiram smith line

inherited the clothing for five

generations until eldred g and gary smith

smith

donated them to the church history

museum in 2013.

the fatal wound to hiram's face left

significant blood on the upper right

front of his vest and shirt in fact the

vest was so blood soaked that a

triangular shaped piece of the vest was

removed but the blood on the front of

the shirt is still visible

we also know that hyrum must have bled

out from those first two shots because

all of the rest of the shots on his body

there was no blood around any of them in

his clothes

gary smith who had possession of these

items for many years has examined them

closely and concluded heira must have

bled out from the wound to his face

before receiving the other three wounds

to his body

he cites dr eric christensen a forensic

pathologist and chief medical examiner

for the department of health for the

state of utah who stated

the complete absence of blood on the

clothing is not consistent with them

having been washed and is most

consistent with those injuries having

been inflicted post-mortem

in total hiram had five wounds

first was here to the left of the nose

then here below his chin

then he had a shot that hit him in the

lower back right here and came and hit

the watch that was in this pocket and stopped

stopped

he was also struck just below the left

knee and he was hit right here on the

all of the physical pieces of evidence

from the crime scene can be observed

measured and compared against the

eyewitness accounts and if you want to

come up with your own theory about what

happened at carthage you can start by

asking a couple of questions about hiram

if hiram was facing the door how did

that musket ball from the window strike

him in his lower back and then change

angles traveling parallel to the floor

and straight towards the door

how could two musket shots with 2100

foot-pounds of energy cause so little

damage to hiram's face

how could hiram get shot in the face and

still have the ability to emphatically

the second bullet hole in the door is 51

and 3 4 inches from the floor

hiram was 74 inches tall

if hiram was standing 10 feet or more

away from the door how did that musket

ball strike him in the face

especially because it was fired at a 5

degree downward angle

there are no exit wounds to hiram's

skull from either shot to his head

there is no visible damage to hiram's

nasal cavity or anywhere around the shot

that struck him to the left of his nose

in fact the only major damage visible to

hiram's skull after 84 years of

deterioration is that he is missing his

maxilla or upper jawbone

why are there no blood stains around the

other three bullet holes in hiram's clothing

the first carthage researchers to

officially answer these questions in a

published study were the lion brothers

joseph and david lyon were the first to

conduct a full forensic study of the

crime scene on-site at carthage jail

they published their landmark findings

in the byu studies quarterly in january

of 2008.

just like the lds church the lion

brothers did their own research

and after they did their own research

they could no longer say

that the eyewitness accounts were 100

accurate so they came up with their own

questions and they devised their own

theories to explain

how could the eyewitness accounts still

be as accurate as possible

and that's how they came up with their

according to the eyewitness accounts

there were two shots to hiram's head

one entering to the left of his nose and

one entering below his chin

but the lion brothers knew it was

impossible for those shots not to cause

damage to the back or top of hiram's skull

skull

that's why they believe hyrum was shot

only once in the head

so in order for the lion brothers theory

to make sense that ball entered here and

exited it here it was a super steep

angle downwards and we also know that

the shot from the door was 5 degrees

that's 5 degrees

so somehow we have to get

hiram's head almost parallel

to the floor in order to make that shot work

work

the problem with trying to get that

angle is it's nearly impossible it is impossible

impossible

according to the lions brothers theory

because of the bullet hole angle from

the second shot through the door hyrum

could not have been standing 10 feet

back when he was struck

therefore they believe he must have

still been holding the door closed

when that shot was made

their theory is that the ball struck

hiram to the left of his nose and exited

through his chin

hiram then stood up and turned around

saying i'm a dead man when another ball

fired through the open door struck him

in his lower back and that shot spun him

back around and then he finally fell

so let's see how the lions brothers

theory stacks up

like most carthage researchers today the

lion brothers don't believe the angles

work for a musket ball to have struck

hiram in the back from a shot fired

outside of the window that's why their

theory changes that shot to a musket

pointing through the door

their one-shot theory explains very

clearly how the muzzle energy of a

musket did not cause more damage to

hiram's head

instead of two shots with no exit wounds

there is only one shot that enters to

the left of hiram's nose and exits below

his chin thus giving the force of the

ball an exit instead of being absorbed

into the skull

this part of their theory is an epic

failure according to the lions brothers

the musket ball that entered through the

side of hiram's nose would have

obliterated the roof of hiram's mouth

and tongue on the way to exiting below

his chin

how could hiram possibly have spoken any

words intelligibly after that amount of

damage inside of his mouth

because of the bullet hole angle the

lion brothers do not believe hiram could

have been shot in the face while

standing 10 feet back from the door

their theory suggests hiram was still up

against the door when he was struck by

the second shot

just like the lds church now believes however

however

there is no feasible way to position

someone's body at the door to make that

shot possible

the one-shot theory matches very closely

with the visible damage to hiram's skull

you can see from the photos that hiram's

skull was missing the upper jaw bone

which would have been shattered to

pieces by a bullet passing through his

nasal cavity and exiting below his chin

according to the lion brothers the first

shot to hiram's head spun him around and

then he was shot in the lower back by a

musket pointed through the doorway

however if this theory was correct there

should have been blood on his clothes

from that wound to his back

i like many things about the lion's

brother's study their one-shot theory is

absolutely revolutionary

i have even adapted part of it into my

own theory

but they do admit that a big weakness in

their theory is the lack of blood on

hiram's clothes they explain this by

suggesting hiram's family washed his

pants under clothing vest and the lower

part of his shirt but not the upper part

of his shirt which seems highly unlikely

to me

but that's not the main problem with

their theory their main problem is that

it's impossible for a six foot two inch

man to position his body against the

door in a way that a musket ball could

penetrate to the left of his nose at

five degrees and exit the chin without

striking him somewhere else in his body

i've tried every possible angle and it

doesn't work unless you're standing

upside down or something like that which

makes no sense for a man trying to hold

a door closed [Music]

so while i was researching those angles

i came across a famous painting by casey

childs about the martyrdom

casey child's painting called greater

love hath no man is a two-part painting

the first half on the right was begun in

2009 and depicts joseph hiram taylor and

richards in carthage leaning against the

door to keep out the mob

the second half actually showing the mob

was completed in 2014

the full painting is now on permanent

display in the church history museum

casey initially consulted with the lions

brothers for the first half of his

painting and it shows can you see how he

depicts hiram's position

still against the door with a member of

the mob about to shoot the door with a musket

musket

notice the angle of the musket and the

position of hiram's head

does it look like that ball could

possibly enter the left side of his nose

exit his chin from that angle without

striking hiram somewhere else in his body

body

so the more that i spoke with casey

about his painting the more that he kept

referring to sam weston and i was like okay

okay

who's sam weston i need to meet sam

weston come to find out that he works at

the church history museum and he allowed

me to come and speak with him and

there's few people in the world that

have done more work on carthage today

than sam weston i spent the whole

afternoon with him and he taught me all

sorts of things that i had never heard before

and that's when i first walked in and

saw that painting i went in the exhibit

before it's even open and i saw that

just took my breath away

i was wow somebody's

actually drawing this

and um so i contacted casey we got talk

you learned really quickly after meeting

sam why casey consulted with him for the

second half of his painting

they're bad at guns and i says you know

what's missing tracy says what

the smoke

they'd have been shooting downstairs

and they were shooting rushing up the

stairs shooting into the jail wait why

would they have been shooting they were

shooting at the guard

they shot the guard they were shooting

blanks remember that

paper cartridge i showed you

they carry blanks with them

that was part of their accoutrements but

they didn't have the ball right

right

and so they were loading those shooting blings

blings

and so they shot blanks downstairs she'd

have the smoke the mobs rushing up the

stairs shooting into the jail cell so

they've been shooting coming up the

stairs i says you need the smoke in the picture

picture

part of the reason casey adopted sam

weston's theory for the second half of

his painting is because both he and sam

came up with different measurements for

the bullet holes in the door panel than

the lions brothers

the lions brothers measured it at 0.69

inches and casey and sam measured it at

all right this is exactly right so we

went back my wife and i went back and we

had to gel to ourselves for several

hours okay and we were able to measure and

and

contemplate and look at things and i

took a ball back with me okay the first

thing i did i read the lion brothers

article and the first thing i did is try

to push that to the hole in the door

no way that's going to fit so i had some

digital calipers i measure it i

completely did that though nope they

never did it that's what i complained is

you can actually look through that door

and you can see there's a directional angle

angle

and i put a dowel in the door

okay and measure the angles exactly okay

but you know bullet going especially a

round ball going through something to

trajectory could be a way off

i mean one of their drawings they show

the bullet on this side of the room was

exactly here but on this side of the

room they had a plus or minus the foot

actually how does that work well no he

had the plus or minus on this side and

then on this side was exactly of where

the because he was trying to figure out

where the angle of the rifle must have

been to make the

his measurements were way off so did the

muskets have

these or was the shot that made that

hole in the door against john tater mentioned

mentioned

bayonets right willard richards mentions

bayonets right a lot of the the carthage

grace which were a block and a half away

on the square

came running and they had their bayonets fixed

fixed

uh the mob could have had bayonets right

1816 69 caliber smoothbore flintlock

wait is this original

that's a reproduction a very nice

reproduction of the river i've got an

original room but it's pretty crude

so this six shoots the 69 which is why

they've always used 69 caliber well it

was a common issue for the militias

69 caliber these were made but these

were gorgeous these were um commissioned

like that

do you agree with them that there was

probably guns being handed up and

switched out

would you think guys would shoot run

down someone else would run out kind of

thing yeah they could be

one gun if you look at casey child's

painting the gun that's aiming at the

door that's a hall breach later

and so these are all muzzle loaders a

breech loader

they've been around since the 1700s but

hall brothers designed theirs

and they were sold to the warsaw militia

we know that they had hull

hull

breach loaders

okay so any military weapon

carried a cartridge like this so this is

a 69 caliber ball

in a cartridge

so to load this gun

see that was one of the requirements to

be in the militia you had to have at

least two teeth

because you'd rip this open and prime

your gut so this is a flintlock so this

is your frozen pan

so you would take this so this has a

pre-measured amount of black powder in

it and the ball

which is a 69 count you put that and rip

that off and you prime you put a little

bit of powder there

and you shut the cover

now the powder can't fall out

you would dump the rest of the powder in here

here

and then you'd shove the paper and the ball

ball

in there they were just dumping it in

how much did they get in did they spill some

some

you know there's a lot of gifts

gifts

and so once that's loaded

now the ball won't fall out

and so

this is a piece of flint so this is a flintlock

flintlock

most of the guns

at this time period have been converted

to percussion guns right but there still

were a lot of flint locks there were

flint locks on the civil war so when i

pull the trigger you'll see that spark

against that and pop it open [Music]

[Music]

and that lights the powder in the pan

and there's a little hole here

the sparks go through and ignite and boom

boom

breach loader

has a chamber here you push a button it

pops up

you throw that in you load it again and

go and we know there were breech loader

guns there

and so they could stand up there and

load their guns

in a matter of five or six seconds

between shots

casey concluded from his own research

and from talking with sam that the 1819

hall breach loading musket was the

musket that the mob used to shoot hiram

you can see from his painting that this

is the musket he depicts being pointed

at the door panel

the interesting thing about this musket

is that it has no bayonet

of the 12 firearms carried by the mob in

casey's painting only one has a bayonet

this is a striking departure from the

eyewitness testimony of willard richards

who detailed knocking down the muskets

i've done my own research on the 1819 hall

hall

breech loading musket

and it does have less muzzle energy

than the other muskets with the bayonets

however sam still shows that there's

quite a bit of energy coming from that musket

musket

so there's several those this is the

so this this is the picture i like right

if his face would have been in the dart

a bit burnt too

sam's tests also brought up another good

point about the door and the splintering

from that shot if hiram's head had been

next to the door when he was shot that

splintering should have caused way more

damage to his head than we can see on

so i i drew this to prove that angle

could have hit him in the back and

that's standing how how

hard is it to get an accurate shot from

that distance with this kind of um

probably most of them missed okay i mean

so they were just firing away yeah they

were just in order to get through okay

so you're the first one that's convinced

me that angle is a possibility oh yeah

because yeah doesn't john taylor's the

one that says you couldn't have

shot in because it would have all hit

the ceiling because of the angle but

that's what willard says to the only

time right they didn't realize hiram was

shot in the back till after the whole

thing was over okay they didn't know that

that

but then he says but the only time he

could have received that ball is when he

was standing up

in front of the window right

after touring carthage myself

i can see sam's angles through the

window for that shot on hiram i can see

that they work

but that they could possibly work

however it still makes no sense to me

why if you're in a mob with all your

friends to come and get joseph and hiram

half of them come up the stairs and the

other half are shooting through the

window into the room where their friends

are entering that makes no sense to me

but i also asked sam i said why do you

think the church and other people

believe that hiram was against the door

when he was shot and sam gave me a

really good explanation for that

and john taylor and willard both say

hiram backed up and got shot yep but the

lions brothers are like the angles

aren't right that's why they had to come

up with the he was against the door

i've got a pitch when they restored the

building in the 30s and he's standing

there looking at the camera putting his

hands on the door and has his face down

by there and he's smiling at the camp and

and

i think that's about the time people

start thinking well

his face had to be by the door he's shot

they completely disregard

willard's account and

it's like any picture any photograph any

painting of church history it paints a

picture in your mind of what happened

right i mean

what did the wall look like that samuel

lamonite stood on

right we all know that right we can

describe it in detail why because

somebody painted it that's right and so

some there's finding a picture of

somebody standing by the door with their

face by the bullet hole right and okay

that's what happened in our mind that's

what happened i mean one that was when

the eight witnesses saw the the plates

the angel put them on a stump

and showed him the plates

where does that come from a painting a

painting the stump is not mentioned

anywhere it's a painting

so you can't really call yourself a

carthage researcher until you come up

with your own theory about what happened

at carthage and sam did that and he

wrote it out and completed that in 2014

but he never published it and i think

one of the reasons why he never

published it is because it's an ongoing

work for him he's still analyzing he's

still collecting evidence he's still

coming up with new ideas one of the

reasons why i wanted to make this film

is to bring his theory to light so that

people could see it i think it's that good

good

so your theory

is if i got it correct hiram and whoever

else is standing against the door

they shoot the first shot through the lock

lock

he backs up

two thirds from the door

he gets shot through the back

from outside

falls to his knees as he's uttering the

words i'm a dead man

and then the shot through the door hits

him in the face

and then later on when the doors open

and more shots come in that's the one

that hits him in the throat and the two

in the legs correct okay

i love sam's theory but part of the

reason i have a hard time accepting it

is because it requires you to go back to

believing hiram was shot twice in the head

head

and that means there should have been

two large exit wounds

let's see how sam's theory stacks up

according to sam's theory if the shooter

is 50 to 70 feet back from the window

and hiram angled his body a little more

towards the window

it's possible to make that shot

however sam admitted most of the shots

from that distance would have missed and

there is no evidence of damage from

musket balls to the outside stone around

that window

the major problem i have with sam's

theory is that it requires you to go

back to believing hiram absorbed the

brunt of two musket shots into his head

without sustaining far more damage

sam has researched civil war injuries

looking for examples of facial injuries

caused by musket fire

so far none of them match the minimal

injury into hiram's face depicted on his

this is the greatest strength of sam's theory

theory

if hiram was shot in the back first it

would be easy for him to have said i'm a

dead man while falling to his knees

before being struck in his face

according to sam after hiram is struck

in the back he falls to his knees and

then gets hit by the second ball shot

through the door which fits the shot

angle far better than if he was still standing

standing

there are no exit wounds to hiram skull

that would justify the two straight

shots to hiram's head from muskets as

described by the two eyewitnesses there

is not even any visible damage around

the nasal cavity from any caliber size

of ball

this is also one of the major weaknesses

with sam's theory if the first shot to

hire was in his lower back there should

have been blood all over his clothing in

that area

sam explains this by relying on the lion

brothers theory that hiram's family

could have washed those blood stains

completely out but he does not know why

the family would have left the stains on

the upper part of his shirt

i like sam's theory because it gives us

some very plausible new explanations to

better fit the current evidence however

it does not offer a good explanation for

the lack of major damage to hiram's

skull like the one shot theory does

but there's a very important reason sam

disagrees with the lions brothers one

shot theory

wait do you are you thinking that's a

possibility on the shot when he was

kneeling that it could have come in and

exited one shot it is possible i'm not

saying it isn't but willard says at

entry wound the coroner's in quest says

it was an entryway right and i think they

they

had seen enough bullet ones to know the

difference between the entry one an excellent

excellent

the coroner said the wound below hiram's

chin was an entry wound not an exit wound

wound

this detail from the coroner is a very

important aspect of my own theory which

i will cover later [Music]

gary smith is one of the hiram smith descendants that actually held

descendants that actually held possession of hiram's clothing before

possession of hiram's clothing before donating the shirt best pants and

donating the shirt best pants and underclothing to the church history

underclothing to the church history museum

museum gary believes that both taylor and

gary believes that both taylor and richards are credible witnesses

richards are credible witnesses while also admitting that portions of

while also admitting that portions of their accounts are inconsistent and

their accounts are inconsistent and sometimes implausible most likely

sometimes implausible most likely because of the amount of time that

because of the amount of time that lapsed between the events of the

lapsed between the events of the martyrdom and their accounts as well as

martyrdom and their accounts as well as the confusion in the room during the

the confusion in the room during the shootings and how quickly they moved to

shootings and how quickly they moved to the adjacent room after the murders

the adjacent room after the murders it is gary's contention that soon after

it is gary's contention that soon after joseph smith went out the window that

joseph smith went out the window that the mob returned upstairs into the room

the mob returned upstairs into the room to make sure hiram had also been killed

to make sure hiram had also been killed when they saw him lying on his back they

when they saw him lying on his back they turned him over slightly to check his

turned him over slightly to check his vitals and then shot him in the back to

vitals and then shot him in the back to make sure he was dead

make sure he was dead so let's see how gary smith's theory

so let's see how gary smith's theory stacks up

stacks up for the most part gary accepts the lion

for the most part gary accepts the lion brothers theory that hiram was shot in

brothers theory that hiram was shot in the face while still leaning against the

the face while still leaning against the door however he doesn't believe the mob

door however he doesn't believe the mob shot hiram in the back until they return

shot hiram in the back until they return to the jail later which makes the window

to the jail later which makes the window shot a moot point

shot a moot point gary matches the lion brothers theory on

gary matches the lion brothers theory on each of these four points though it's

each of these four points though it's still highly improbable for hiram to

still highly improbable for hiram to have been positioned against the door in

have been positioned against the door in such a way to make their one-shot theory

such a way to make their one-shot theory work

work the strength of gary's theory is his

the strength of gary's theory is his explanation for the lack of blood on

explanation for the lack of blood on hiram's clothing

hiram's clothing no other current theory can explain this

no other current theory can explain this piece of evidence which is why i use it

piece of evidence which is why i use it in my own theory as well

so there are three theories that we're talking about here we've got the lion

talking about here we've got the lion brothers we've got sam weston and we've

brothers we've got sam weston and we've got gary smith and i like all of them

got gary smith and i like all of them they all have good components to them

they all have good components to them but unfortunately

but unfortunately none of them can work based on the

none of them can work based on the forensic evidence

forensic evidence i understand that it's impossible to

i understand that it's impossible to know exactly what happened to carthage

know exactly what happened to carthage i mean there's always going to be an

i mean there's always going to be an unlimited number of possibilities but at

unlimited number of possibilities but at some point after a thorough

some point after a thorough investigation

investigation you have to choose the most likely

you have to choose the most likely scenario and there's a reason why none

scenario and there's a reason why none of the current three theories can

of the current three theories can account for all of the physical evidence

account for all of the physical evidence all of them were trying to prove the

all of them were trying to prove the current narrative

current narrative but you can't get to the truth by trying

but you can't get to the truth by trying to prove what you already believe

to prove what you already believe you have to stay open to wherever the

you have to stay open to wherever the evidence leads

evidence leads there's a couple of different reasons

there's a couple of different reasons why i believe that hiram wasn't shot

why i believe that hiram wasn't shot through the window first of all it was

through the window first of all it was an extremely difficult angle to hit

an extremely difficult angle to hit and

and that would have meant that many of the

that would have meant that many of the shots from the mob outside of the jail

shots from the mob outside of the jail would have missed and there is zero

would have missed and there is zero evidence

evidence for

for musket shots in the stone around that

musket shots in the stone around that window in fact we have an example from

window in fact we have an example from the saint magnus cathedral of what it

the saint magnus cathedral of what it looks like when a musket ball hits a

looks like when a musket ball hits a similar stone and you can see here on

similar stone and you can see here on carthage that there is nothing like that

carthage that there is nothing like that anywhere on the outside

anywhere on the outside secondly it doesn't make a lot of sense

secondly it doesn't make a lot of sense for why the mob outside would be firing

for why the mob outside would be firing through the window knowing their friends

through the window knowing their friends were inside the jail and third of all

were inside the jail and third of all there's no blood on hiram's back

there's no blood on hiram's back and that means he couldn't have been

and that means he couldn't have been shot in the back before he had already

shot in the back before he had already bled out from his other two wounds so i

bled out from his other two wounds so i agree with gary smith on that that the

agree with gary smith on that that the mob came up later and shot hiram in the

mob came up later and shot hiram in the back and that's why there was no blood

back and that's why there was no blood in the clothing around that wound

in the clothing around that wound now as far as the muzzle energy goes i

now as far as the muzzle energy goes i also agree with the lion brothers and

also agree with the lion brothers and gary smith that the one-shot theory is a

gary smith that the one-shot theory is a far better explanation for the two

far better explanation for the two wounds in hiram's head so if it entered

wounds in hiram's head so if it entered and exited that means the skull wouldn't

and exited that means the skull wouldn't have borne the brunt of the energy from

have borne the brunt of the energy from that shot and that's why there's no exit

that shot and that's why there's no exit wounds in the back or the top of hiram's

wounds in the back or the top of hiram's skull

skull hiram did say i'm a dead man but it was

hiram did say i'm a dead man but it was before

before he was shot and that means he knew

he was shot and that means he knew exactly what was about to happen to him

exactly what was about to happen to him so he was calling out i'm a dead man

so he was calling out i'm a dead man i don't think hiram was shot through the

i don't think hiram was shot through the door

door why would anyone stand in front of that

why would anyone stand in front of that door after and seeing the mob shoot

door after and seeing the mob shoot right through it it just doesn't make

right through it it just doesn't make any sense to me

any sense to me i know this directly refutes the

i know this directly refutes the eyewitness testimonies but the evidence

eyewitness testimonies but the evidence does not back up any scenario that i've

does not back up any scenario that i've seen where hyun was shot in the face and

seen where hyun was shot in the face and killed by a ball coming through that

killed by a ball coming through that second hole in the door

second hole in the door now i agree that the one-shot theory is

now i agree that the one-shot theory is the only way to explain the lack of

the only way to explain the lack of damage to hiram's skull

damage to hiram's skull but there's no scenario where that shot

but there's no scenario where that shot could have entered through his nose and

could have entered through his nose and exited below his chin

exited below his chin i believe the lions brothers i believe

i believe the lions brothers i believe the evidence points so there was only

the evidence points so there was only one shot

one shot however this is where i agree with sam

however this is where i agree with sam that shot didn't enter here and exit

that shot didn't enter here and exit here

here it was here that it entered that's what

it was here that it entered that's what the coroner said

the coroner said i agree with sam on that the shot

i agree with sam on that the shot entered here

entered here but what does that mean

but what does that mean if it entered here and exited here

if it entered here and exited here how do you make that shot

there's no way that that shot could have come through the door

come through the door now a lot of people that i talk with say

now a lot of people that i talk with say when i explain this to them

when i explain this to them and i show them the angles

and i show them the angles i say how could you possibly make a shot

i say how could you possibly make a shot right here

right here and they're like well i don't know the

and they're like well i don't know the mob could have done it and i'm like okay

mob could have done it and i'm like okay if the mob did make that shot

if the mob did make that shot they would have had to come into the

they would have had to come into the room and somehow grabbed hiram and shot

room and somehow grabbed hiram and shot him here under the neck

him here under the neck and if that's true

and if that's true why didn't john taylor and willard

why didn't john taylor and willard richards tell that part of the story

richards tell that part of the story why did they make up this other story

why did they make up this other story that he was you know standing right here

that he was you know standing right here when he got shot through the door

when he got shot through the door i mean how hard would it have been to

i mean how hard would it have been to confuse a mob member walks in and shoots

confuse a mob member walks in and shoots him through the neck right here

him through the neck right here something's going on the evidence points

something's going on the evidence points to this was the shot it entered here it

to this was the shot it entered here it exited here

exited here how did that happen

i didn't want to make this documentary just to show

just to show all of the current theories there are

all of the current theories there are out there right now on what happened at

out there right now on what happened at carthage

carthage i wanted to show my own theory

i wanted to show my own theory i've spent thousands of hours

i've spent thousands of hours researching what happened

researching what happened reading all of the documents reading all

reading all of the documents reading all the reports i've consulted with 20

the reports i've consulted with 20 different people including two forensic

different people including two forensic detectives

detectives i reconstructed the entire set to match

i reconstructed the entire set to match exactly

exactly the measurements of that room at

the measurements of that room at carthage and then i brought actors in

carthage and then i brought actors in and moved them in different positions

and moved them in different positions showing all the different theories and

showing all the different theories and explaining where the mob was

explaining where the mob was looking to see how it could all fit

looking to see how it could all fit together

after you spend that much time on something

something you begin to see

you begin to see the pieces that fit together

the pieces that fit together and you see a story that begins to

and you see a story that begins to emerge

emerge now let me tell you a little bit about

now let me tell you a little bit about the difference between the three main

the difference between the three main theories that we've covered

theories that we've covered which are from the lions brothers sam

which are from the lions brothers sam weston and from gary smith

weston and from gary smith all three of them are members of the lds

all three of them are members of the lds church

church and they know that there's

and they know that there's inconsistencies in those eyewitness

inconsistencies in those eyewitness accounts but they wanted to preserve the

accounts but they wanted to preserve the good name of willard richards and john

good name of willard richards and john taylor and show how the evidence could

taylor and show how the evidence could still fit

still fit their eyewitness accounts

their eyewitness accounts they wanted to protect the name of the

they wanted to protect the name of the church and they wanted to protect the

church and they wanted to protect the name of the descendants of all the

name of the descendants of all the people that were involved and i get that

but that wasn't the way that i looked at it

it i'm also a member of the church and i

i'm also a member of the church and i want to protect all these people as well

want to protect all these people as well but i want the truth

i want to know who really killed

who really killed joseph smith and his brother hiram

joseph smith and his brother hiram what really happened

what really happened in those two to three minutes

in those two to three minutes at carthage

[Applause] [Music]

man of grief hath often crossed me on

often crossed me on my way

my way who sued so

[Music] i had now

i had now [Music]

[Music] i knew not why

i knew not why [Music]

[Music] opened greater

opened greater [Music]

clear [Music]

to me was clear as day was

these brothers [Music]

i chose comments

willard richards tries to make the room look like the mob committed the murders

look like the mob committed the murders he collects the guns and fires more

he collects the guns and fires more shots into the wall and possibly haram's

shots into the wall and possibly haram's leg

richards helps taylor into the next room where he leaves him for the next nine

where he leaves him for the next nine hours

hours [Music]

[Music] there he lays where i left him

after some time passes the mob comes back into the room looking for hiram

one of the mob members fires a shot into hiram's back

they turn hiram's body over to make sure it's him

joseph came to carthage like a lamb to the slaughter

the slaughter he knew he would have to seal his

he knew he would have to seal his testimony with his blood

testimony with his blood what he didn't know

what he didn't know is that he and hiram would be killed by

is that he and hiram would be killed by their friends

so john taylor and willard richards

and willard richards were both members of the quorum of the

were both members of the quorum of the twelve

twelve willard richards

willard richards was joseph's personal scribe

was joseph's personal scribe john taylor went on to become the third

john taylor went on to become the third president and prophet of the church

these men were supposed to be joseph and hiram's

were supposed to be joseph and hiram's friends

and they found a way to be in that room that day

i understand the implications of what i'm saying

the implications of what i'm saying are going to make a lot of people upset

but i wanted the truth i was willing to deal with the truth

[Music] i wasn't the first one to come up with

i wasn't the first one to come up with the theory that joseph and hiram were

the theory that joseph and hiram were killed by their friends the idea that

killed by their friends the idea that the martyrdom was an inside job has been

the martyrdom was an inside job has been around since 1844.

around since 1844. listen to the words of joseph and

listen to the words of joseph and hiram's sister catherine

hiram's sister catherine i was in nauvoo a few days before my

i was in nauvoo a few days before my brothers were brought to carthage where

brothers were brought to carthage where they met their death i shall never

they met their death i shall never forget that saturday june 23 1844 when i

forget that saturday june 23 1844 when i last saw my brothers alive

last saw my brothers alive i heard brother joseph's last sermon

i heard brother joseph's last sermon delivered to a great audience in nauvoo

delivered to a great audience in nauvoo i might say that it was more in the

i might say that it was more in the nature of a prophecy than a sermon

nature of a prophecy than a sermon or rather its conclusion was

or rather its conclusion was for as he finished he turned and facing

for as he finished he turned and facing some of the high priests and elders

some of the high priests and elders sitting there he told them that there

sitting there he told them that there were seated on the stand beside him

were seated on the stand beside him those who were conspiring to deliver him

those who were conspiring to deliver him up to the enemy

up to the enemy to take his life and who would be

to take his life and who would be responsible for his death

responsible for his death he said there are those among you who

he said there are those among you who will betray me soon in fact you have

will betray me soon in fact you have plotted to deliver me up to the enemy to

plotted to deliver me up to the enemy to be slain

be slain the truth of this prophecy is of history

the truth of this prophecy is of history he was betrayed

he was betrayed and by his own alleged best friends

and by his own alleged best friends these same fellows attempted to assume

these same fellows attempted to assume the reigns of the church at his death

the reigns of the church at his death [Music]

[Music] a lot of this depends on what your

a lot of this depends on what your paradigm is how you approach the proof

paradigm is how you approach the proof that we've presented

that we've presented if you want to prove a certain narrative

if you want to prove a certain narrative then you'll only see the evidence that

then you'll only see the evidence that proves that certain narrative

proves that certain narrative i've been on both sides of both

i've been on both sides of both narratives was an inside job and it was

narratives was an inside job and it was the mob

the mob i had the idea that john taylor and

i had the idea that john taylor and willard richards killed joseph smith but

willard richards killed joseph smith but that would be preposterous to any other

that would be preposterous to any other mormon because those two men went on

mormon because those two men went on especially john taylor to become even

especially john taylor to become even greater

greater influences general authorities in the

influences general authorities in the church they were apostles then

church they were apostles then but i

but i didn't see it in the same framework for

didn't see it in the same framework for me i already understood that william law

me i already understood that william law was

was a member of the first presidency and he

a member of the first presidency and he was influential in the martyrdom of

was influential in the martyrdom of joseph smith and so to me and i saw so

joseph smith and so to me and i saw so many apostles leave in kirtland and

many apostles leave in kirtland and leave in nauvoo or even in missouri

leave in nauvoo or even in missouri there was a big turnover and a lot of

there was a big turnover and a lot of apostasy in the quorum of 12. so

apostasy in the quorum of 12. so right from the outset i don't have the

right from the outset i don't have the conditioning and the

conditioning and the um

um the

the preconceptions that an apostle can't

preconceptions that an apostle can't betray

betray the church or betray joseph smith the

the church or betray joseph smith the apostles of course were all betraying

apostles of course were all betraying joseph smith

joseph smith there wasn't a single part of this

there wasn't a single part of this reenactment

reenactment that we didn't think completely through

that we didn't think completely through every detail

every detail we asked exactly does this belong in

we asked exactly does this belong in this documentary or not

so what most people don't know is that the mob came twice

the mob came twice they also don't know that there were

they also don't know that there were more people in the room than just joseph

more people in the room than just joseph and hiram joseph and hiram were the only

and hiram joseph and hiram were the only ones that were actually under arrest

ones that were actually under arrest they were the only ones that were told

they were the only ones that were told by the judge that they had to remain at

by the judge that they had to remain at carthage

carthage but for some reason the jailer let many

but for some reason the jailer let many other people come in and out of that

other people come in and out of that room and the night before the actual

room and the night before the actual martyrdom happened around 12 midnight

martyrdom happened around 12 midnight dan jones

dan jones tells his own account of what happened

tells his own account of what happened it was dark they heard the mob come up

it was dark they heard the mob come up the stairs were talking behind the door

the stairs were talking behind the door they all ran to the door dan's the one

they all ran to the door dan's the one that said that they had only had a chair

that said that they had only had a chair leaning against the door and someone

leaning against the door and someone grabbed that as a means of defense but

grabbed that as a means of defense but they all stood against that wall and i

they all stood against that wall and i believe most likely that was what

believe most likely that was what happened

happened when they were actually killed as they

when they were actually killed as they were all standing against the wall they

were all standing against the wall they weren't against that door joseph called

weren't against that door joseph called out to them we're ready for you

out to them we're ready for you something like that

something like that and it spooked the mob and they took off

and it spooked the mob and they took off the next morning joseph sends dan out to

the next morning joseph sends dan out to go find out what happened

go find out what happened what was this mob that was there last

what was this mob that was there last night and as dan is going around town

night and as dan is going around town he runs into a remnant of that mob and

he runs into a remnant of that mob and they talk about that they're there to

they talk about that they're there to hang joseph that they came to carthage

hang joseph that they came to carthage to grab him to hang him i think that

to grab him to hang him i think that probably tells more accurately what was

probably tells more accurately what was in the mind of the mob members rather

in the mind of the mob members rather than they're

than they're busting through the door shooting while

busting through the door shooting while their friends are out shooting at them

their friends are out shooting at them through the other window that doesn't

through the other window that doesn't make sense to me they had come there

make sense to me they had come there they were armed but they wanted to take

they were armed but they wanted to take joseph and they wanted to take hiram out

joseph and they wanted to take hiram out of that room now can you imagine the

of that room now can you imagine the shock that they had when they found out

shock that they had when they found out that joseph was armed and joseph came

that joseph was armed and joseph came out and he shot his pistol and he had a

out and he shot his pistol and he had a six-shooter that looked a lot like this

six-shooter that looked a lot like this and there are three of the mob members

and there are three of the mob members that were actually injured by those

that were actually injured by those shots from joseph

shots from joseph now it's very important that you

now it's very important that you understand that it was three shots

understand that it was three shots three injuries that were caused because

three injuries that were caused because of all the details that john taylor and

of all the details that john taylor and willard richards

willard richards conflict with even each other there's

conflict with even each other there's one detail they both get very clear

one detail they both get very clear they say when joseph fired his six shots

they say when joseph fired his six shots three of them misfired and that was

three of them misfired and that was always puzzling to me why would they go

always puzzling to me why would they go out of their way to talk about these

out of their way to talk about these misfires how would they even know that

misfires how would they even know that that joseph had misfired do you hear the

that joseph had misfired do you hear the bang but don't see the bullet come out

bang but don't see the bullet come out of the front or do you hear the click of

of the front or do you hear the click of the gun and all the things that were

the gun and all the things that were going on in that room how did they both

going on in that room how did they both come up with that detail that joseph had

come up with that detail that joseph had three shots that fired and three that

three shots that fired and three that misfired

misfired dan jones had not been allowed back into

dan jones had not been allowed back into the room once he left the jailer had

the room once he left the jailer had made sure that all that was in that room

made sure that all that was in that room was john taylor and willard richards so

was john taylor and willard richards so when joseph goes out i have him going

when joseph goes out i have him going out of the room to fire john and willard

out of the room to fire john and willard now have to figure out what are they

now have to figure out what are they going to do

going to do in that moment i tried to portray in the

in that moment i tried to portray in the reenactment that john

reenactment that john you know wasn't exactly sure he was

you know wasn't exactly sure he was ready to go through with this but he had

ready to go through with this but he had to make a decision and he knew he had to

to make a decision and he knew he had to take hiram out and then he was going to

take hiram out and then he was going to have to go and take joseph out

have to go and take joseph out so joseph and hyrum didn't have guns but

so joseph and hyrum didn't have guns but their friends brought them guns john

their friends brought them guns john fulmer brought in a single shot

fulmer brought in a single shot which joseph at first had it but then

which joseph at first had it but then cyrus wheelock is the one that brought

cyrus wheelock is the one that brought in the sixth shooter and that sixth

in the sixth shooter and that sixth shooter he said does anybody want this

shooter he said does anybody want this and joseph took the six shooter and gave

and joseph took the six shooter and gave the single shot to his brother hiram so

the single shot to his brother hiram so they were both armed and it's important

they were both armed and it's important to understand that joseph had six shots

to understand that joseph had six shots and hiram had a single shot

and hiram had a single shot and it's also important to understand

and it's also important to understand that that sixth shooter that cyrus

that that sixth shooter that cyrus wheelock gave hiram actually used to

wheelock gave hiram actually used to belong to john taylor john taylor

belong to john taylor john taylor collected guns and he had sold that sick

collected guns and he had sold that sick shooter to cyrus wheelock which tells me

shooter to cyrus wheelock which tells me he probably had a new one

he probably had a new one so in my estimation that's what he had

so in my estimation that's what he had with him in the jail that day was at

with him in the jail that day was at least a six shooter and i think willard

least a six shooter and i think willard had at least one single shot probably

had at least one single shot probably two he could have had a six shooter as

two he could have had a six shooter as well anyway so joseph goes outside of

well anyway so joseph goes outside of the room to dispatch the mob the mob

the room to dispatch the mob the mob when they see that he's firing on them

when they see that he's firing on them they all take off back down the stairs

they all take off back down the stairs in the meantime hiram and john taylor

in the meantime hiram and john taylor get in in a shootout inside of the room

get in in a shootout inside of the room hiram of course is completely shocked

hiram of course is completely shocked that john would have been in on this

that john would have been in on this so in the middle of that squirmish

so in the middle of that squirmish that's where i believe that hiram shot

that's where i believe that hiram shot john taylor in the leg that was the

john taylor in the leg that was the first big wound that john taylor

first big wound that john taylor received with that single shot from

received with that single shot from hiram when john taylor and he were in a

hiram when john taylor and he were in a gunfight he calls out

gunfight he calls out joseph

joseph i'm a dead man

i'm a dead man so

so john shoots him

john shoots him and he gets that shot that i've been

and he gets that shot that i've been describing this whole time under his

describing this whole time under his throat

throat enters here and it exits here

enters here and it exits here and then he falls to the ground now i

and then he falls to the ground now i had to decide what to do with that fall

had to decide what to do with that fall in the

in the eyewitness accounts they have hiram on

eyewitness accounts they have hiram on his back they say he landed on his back

his back they say he landed on his back and he never moved again

and he never moved again and i have gone through this scenario so

and i have gone through this scenario so many times if he landed on his back and

many times if he landed on his back and the shot to his lower back was from the

the shot to his lower back was from the mob later on

mob later on then what did they do did the mob come

then what did they do did the mob come in look at him turn him over and then

in look at him turn him over and then shoot him in the back

shoot him in the back and then turn him back over and shoot

and then turn him back over and shoot him in the knee and shoot him in the

him in the knee and shoot him in the thigh because remember all three of

thigh because remember all three of those shots don't have any blood with

those shots don't have any blood with them which means they happened after

them which means they happened after hiram had already bled out

hiram had already bled out so

so the timing of it would suggest that that

the timing of it would suggest that that happened when the mob came back up and i

happened when the mob came back up and i just don't see them turning his body

just don't see them turning his body back over

back over and shooting him so i see hiram hitting

and shooting him so i see hiram hitting the floor

the floor on his stomach and staying on his

on his stomach and staying on his stomach and then the mob comes up and

stomach and then the mob comes up and shoots him first in the back and then

shoots him first in the back and then checks and is like yes indeed that is

checks and is like yes indeed that is higher

higher so a very interesting thing

so a very interesting thing happened during the filming of that

happened during the filming of that scene

scene if you look at the vest of hiram you can

if you look at the vest of hiram you can see that there's a large section of it

see that there's a large section of it cut out and it's on the right lapel

cut out and it's on the right lapel on the right side

on the right side and that's where all of the blood would

and that's where all of the blood would have come from his wound and there's no

have come from his wound and there's no other blood anywhere on the vest but

other blood anywhere on the vest but there is blood on his shirt underneath

there is blood on his shirt underneath where his vest would have been covered

where his vest would have been covered in blood and a lot of people are like

in blood and a lot of people are like well shouldn't there have been other

well shouldn't there have been other blood all over the vest

blood all over the vest and maybe

and maybe maybe not

maybe not and it's very convenient they say that

and it's very convenient they say that that big section of his vest was cut out

that big section of his vest was cut out with all the blood on it and we can't

with all the blood on it and we can't you know really tell if that had blood

you know really tell if that had blood on it or not

on it or not but i did not intend this at all and

but i did not intend this at all and we've simulated the blood coming from

we've simulated the blood coming from those two wounds that was all out on the

those two wounds that was all out on the floor

floor and then after we were finished with the

and then after we were finished with the chute

chute and hyrum stood up

you could see where the blood ended up

where the blood ended up i mean

i was blown away this is exactly

this is exactly exactly where the piece of his vest was

exactly where the piece of his vest was cut out it's on the wrong side because i

cut out it's on the wrong side because i turned his head to the left but had i

turned his head to the left but had i turned it to the right it just as easily

turned it to the right it just as easily could have been on this side look at

could have been on this side look at that

we basically without even trying proved that it was a possibility

proved that it was a possibility that with that major wound the only

that with that major wound the only blood on his vest would be in the exact

blood on his vest would be in the exact area that was cut out

area that was cut out so

so hiram gets this shot into john taylor's

hiram gets this shot into john taylor's thigh

thigh now he's unarmed and now he's dead

now he's unarmed and now he's dead laying on the floor and now joseph comes

laying on the floor and now joseph comes back into the room

back into the room and joseph sees

and joseph sees what had happened his brother is lying

what had happened his brother is lying on the floor

on the floor and john taylor is there

and john taylor is there and then john taylor opens fire on

and then john taylor opens fire on joseph and strikes him

joseph and strikes him and that's when i believe that joseph

and that's when i believe that joseph smith starts firing back on john

smith starts firing back on john now john

now john most people think that john

most people think that john got shot five times

got shot five times and that's not correct

and that's not correct that only works if you believe he was

that only works if you believe he was actually shot in the watch

actually shot in the watch and i think again today every carthage

and i think again today every carthage researcher out there

researcher out there none of them believe that john was shot

none of them believe that john was shot in the watch

in the watch that means all that was left was four

that means all that was left was four wounds the big shot in his thigh

wounds the big shot in his thigh the shot into his wrist that traveled up

the shot into his wrist that traveled up below his fingers the shot below his

below his fingers the shot below his left knee and the shot in his left hip

left knee and the shot in his left hip he was shot four times

he was shot four times four

four that first shot came from hymer

that first shot came from hymer the next three shots i believe were from

the next three shots i believe were from joseph's gun

joseph's gun now why do i think that

between three caliber sizes of the balls that came out of the guns at that time

that came out of the guns at that time this is a 69 caliber would have been

this is a 69 caliber would have been fired from the musket

fired from the musket this is a 50 caliber that could have

this is a 50 caliber that could have been shot from a rifle or a hand

been shot from a rifle or a hand pistol and then this is about

pistol and then this is about approximately a 30 caliber a little bit

approximately a 30 caliber a little bit bigger than today's 22

bigger than today's 22 and that

and that is the ball that gets shot from a six

is the ball that gets shot from a six shot gun like joseph had so

shot gun like joseph had so let me ask you

let me ask you if john taylor

if john taylor was shot in the hand

was shot in the hand with this

with this it hit him in the wrist

it hit him in the wrist and traveled up his hand and was lodged

and traveled up his hand and was lodged right here

right here the doctor that worked on him afterwards

the doctor that worked on him afterwards to remove that ball

to remove that ball had to cut it out with a pen knife

had to cut it out with a pen knife digging around in his hand trying to

digging around in his hand trying to find that ball and then he used a

find that ball and then he used a compass to pull it out when he found it

compass to pull it out when he found it and of course john was in excruciating

and of course john was in excruciating pain when that was happening

pain when that was happening do you think if that ball hit you in the

do you think if that ball hit you in the wrist and traveled up to your hand here

wrist and traveled up to your hand here that it would be difficult to find it

that it would be difficult to find it there's no way

if it had been a 50 caliber shot hit here traveled up even then

hit here traveled up even then still easy to find

still easy to find the only thing makes sense to me was

the only thing makes sense to me was that 30 caliber

that 30 caliber that i believe could hit you in the

that i believe could hit you in the wrist travel up your hand and get lodged

wrist travel up your hand and get lodged here and be difficult to find when

here and be difficult to find when you're digging around in his hand with a

you're digging around in his hand with a pen knife that makes way more sense to

pen knife that makes way more sense to me

me secondly that wound to john taylor's

secondly that wound to john taylor's knee just below his knee he never

knee just below his knee he never removed that ball for the rest of his

removed that ball for the rest of his life it stayed

life it stayed do you think you could walk around the

do you think you could walk around the rest of your life with a 69 caliber ball

rest of your life with a 69 caliber ball stuck in your knee

stuck in your knee there's no way

there's no way on the other hand if you had this 30

on the other hand if you had this 30 caliber

caliber that i could see was a possibility

now the final wound on his hip didn't the ball didn't lodge in his hip it tore

the ball didn't lodge in his hip it tore a piece of the skin off so i can't say

a piece of the skin off so i can't say about that shot but the other two shots

about that shot but the other two shots absolutely they were not a 69 caliber

absolutely they were not a 69 caliber musket ball it was a smaller caliber now

musket ball it was a smaller caliber now we went out

we went out in the range and we

in the range and we tested this for ourselves we took a

tested this for ourselves we took a ballistic arm and the very first thing

ballistic arm and the very first thing we did was shot it with a 22 and we hit

we did was shot it with a 22 and we hit it right here in the wrist just like

it right here in the wrist just like john taylor described and that bullet

john taylor described and that bullet traveled up and it went right through

traveled up and it went right through the fingers

the fingers so then we decided to shoot it with a 69

so then we decided to shoot it with a 69 caliber musket

caliber musket simulated

simulated and it blew the hand completely off

and it blew the hand completely off that's what i suspected all along that

that's what i suspected all along that there's no way that there was

there's no way that there was muskets aiming through the door and

muskets aiming through the door and that's how jon was shot there would have

that's how jon was shot there would have been way too much damage on him getting

been way too much damage on him getting hit three times four times like he did

hit three times four times like he did there just would have been way more

there just would have been way more damage than in the record you don't just

damage than in the record you don't just walk away from a 69 caliber musket ball

walk away from a 69 caliber musket ball hitting you in the knee it would have

hitting you in the knee it would have tore your leg off

tore your leg off same thing if it hit you in the hand you

same thing if it hit you in the hand you don't have a hand anymore we did this

don't have a hand anymore we did this simulation we watched what happened

simulation we watched what happened ourselves

ourselves last piece of evidence that i wanted to

last piece of evidence that i wanted to cover

cover was section 135 of the doctrine and

was section 135 of the doctrine and covenants

covenants this is what john taylor wrote

this is what john taylor wrote afterwards about the martyrdom

afterwards about the martyrdom to seal the testimony of this book in

to seal the testimony of this book in the book of mormon we announced the

the book of mormon we announced the martyrdom of joseph smith the prophet

martyrdom of joseph smith the prophet and hiram smith the patriarch

and hiram smith the patriarch they were shot in carthage jail on the

they were shot in carthage jail on the 27th of june 1844 at about five o'clock

27th of june 1844 at about five o'clock p.m by an armed mob

p.m by an armed mob painted black up from 150 to 200 persons

painted black up from 150 to 200 persons hiram was shot first and fell calmly

hiram was shot first and fell calmly exclaiming i am a dead man

exclaiming i am a dead man joseph leaped from the window and was

joseph leaped from the window and was shot dead in the attempt exclaiming oh

shot dead in the attempt exclaiming oh lord my god

lord my god they were both shot after they were dead

they were both shot after they were dead in a brutal manner and both received

in a brutal manner and both received four balls

four balls four balls

four balls is what hiram received

is what hiram received now what john may have forgotten

now what john may have forgotten or didn't know was going to be a

or didn't know was going to be a possibility is that hiram's clothes were

possibility is that hiram's clothes were going to be preserved all the way from

going to be preserved all the way from that day till today

that day till today and you can see in the clothes where he

and you can see in the clothes where he was shot

was shot once in the back

once in the back once in the knee

once in the knee once in the hip

once in the hip there's three if he was only hit by four

there's three if he was only hit by four balls

balls that's one shot left but there's still

that's one shot left but there's still two wounds one in the nose

two wounds one in the nose and one below the chin

and one below the chin that's why so many of us believe today

that's why so many of us believe today that that shot

that that shot that final shot to be accounted for

that final shot to be accounted for was one shot

was one shot some say this is the entry and this is

some say this is the entry and this is the exit i think that the evidence

the exit i think that the evidence proves this is the entry and this is

proves this is the entry and this is john taylor knew

john taylor knew that iron had only received four shots

that iron had only received four shots it wasn't five

it wasn't five like the eyewitness accounts today

like the eyewitness accounts today make it look

make it look or make it seem like that's what

or make it seem like that's what happened

happened when it comes to understanding

when it comes to understanding everything that happened at carthage

everything that happened at carthage we're not done yet

we're not done yet there are still

there are still new stories to be told

new stories to be told new evidences to be discovered

new evidences to be discovered there are new carthage researchers

there are new carthage researchers that still have to wake up

i was so worried when the actor playing joseph grabbed hiram to turn him over

joseph grabbed hiram to turn him over because he still had blood on his hand

because he still had blood on his hand and it got on hiram's shirt and there

and it got on hiram's shirt and there was nothing we could do about it

was nothing we could do about it after we were done filming i looked

after we were done filming i looked closely at hiram's shirt and was totally

closely at hiram's shirt and was totally shocked

[Music] over the last few years we've had a lot

over the last few years we've had a lot of positive

of positive evidence come out about joseph that

evidence come out about joseph that seems to exonerate him from all the

seems to exonerate him from all the atrocities that are attributed to his

atrocities that are attributed to his name and i just look forward for a lot

name and i just look forward for a lot more

more good to come out regarding joseph

good to come out regarding joseph as a forensic detective specializing in

as a forensic detective specializing in cold cases i have personally overseen

cold cases i have personally overseen the investigation of over 100 murder

the investigation of over 100 murder cases i believe the most likely scenario

cases i believe the most likely scenario is that the smith brothers were fired

is that the smith brothers were fired upon first by the two men staying in the

upon first by the two men staying in the jail with them

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YouTube Transcript:P1: "Who Killed Joseph Smith?" Documentary

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P1: "Who Killed Joseph Smith?" Documentary