0:02 Hey, I'm Tucker Carlson. Last week,
0:05 within just really minutes after Charlie
0:08 Kirk was shot at that event in Utah, a
0:10 kind of proxy war broke out over his
0:13 memory. Who gets to own it? Who gets to
0:14 use it? While the rest of us were still
0:16 reeling in shock, trying to figure out
0:18 what happened. A ton of people appeared
0:20 online, not just in this country, to
0:23 tell you exactly what happened, exactly
0:25 what it meant, and exactly what we
0:27 should do next.
0:30 And you can see why with this level of
0:34 emotion, rage, and grief in the air,
0:36 it's pretty wise to leverage that much
0:38 energy. It's almost like nuclear power.
0:40 It can be used for good or bad. And a
0:42 lot of people wanted to use it. There's
0:43 no question about that. So they begin
0:46 telling you, Charlie died for this. He
0:49 lived for this, and he died for that. So
0:52 the crazier reaches of the left, it was
0:54 Charlie was a Nazi. And the lesson is
0:56 Nazis get killed. It makes sense. he was
0:57 a bad guy who got what he deserved and a
0:59 lot of them said that out out loud.
1:01 Certain parts of the right immediately
1:03 told you that actually this was about
1:04 something completely different. You
1:06 know, Charlie died for Israel. Many
1:07 began to say the prime minister of
1:09 Israel said that and so did a lot of
1:11 other people. Charlie was a defender of
1:13 Israel, which he was, by the way, and
1:17 therefore he died for that cause.
1:19 But none of these explanations, all
1:20 self-serving, are really satisfactory.
1:22 They don't capture who Charlie Kirk was.
1:25 And on some basic level, they're
1:27 dishonest. Charlie was not a Nazi. He
1:29 was not killed because he was a Nazi.
1:31 Yes, he was a defender of Israel. He
1:33 would didn't die for Israel. However,
1:36 why did he die? What was his life about?
1:39 What was the sin, the core sin that
1:41 Charlie Kirk committed against somebody
1:44 power that got him killed in the end?
1:46 And the answer is right in front of us.
1:48 Certainly those of us who knew him.
1:50 Charlie's life was defined by his
1:53 Christian faith. Not his spirituality,
1:55 but his belief in Jesus. His life as a
1:57 Christian. And everything in his life
1:59 flowed from those beliefs. Everything.
2:02 Everything he did, said, and believed
2:04 came from the fact that he was above all
2:08 a Christian. And that is and was and in
2:11 fact has always been deeply provocative
2:14 and offensive to the rest of the world.
2:16 And why is that? It's worth thinking
2:18 about it for just a second. Christianity
2:19 doesn't seem like the kind of religion
2:21 that would provoke people to anger and
2:23 violence. In fact, it seems just the
2:25 opposite. It's the world's most
2:27 profoundly nonviolent religion, maybe
2:29 the world's only truly nonviolent
2:32 religion. A religion based on a man who
2:34 Christians believe was also God, who as
2:37 he was being led away to be tortured to
2:40 death on madeup charges, scolded one of
2:43 his disciples for fighting back. This is
2:46 a religion committed to love above all
2:48 and to living in peace and harmony
2:50 truly. It's a universalist religion that
2:52 believes that every person has a shot at
2:55 heaven. It's not exclusionary at all.
2:57 And so you would think it would make
2:58 sense that if you're a government or if
3:00 you're in power that you'd want a lot of
3:01 Christians living in your country
3:03 because they're not going to cause
3:05 massive problems. Not a lot of sincere
3:07 Christians are fermenting insurrection
3:10 at any given moment. Pretty much none
3:13 most of the time. They're tidy. They get
3:16 married. They love their children. They
3:17 pay their taxes. They're commanded to
3:19 pay their taxes. So, why wouldn't you
3:20 want a nation full of Christians? Why
3:22 wouldn't you encourage this religious
3:24 belief, even if it wasn't yours? Why
3:26 would you hate it? Well, there are a
3:28 couple of reasons. There are a couple of
3:29 things about Christianity, and these
3:31 were evident throughout Charlie's public
3:34 life that are deeply provocative to the
3:37 people in power. And the first is the
3:40 insistence that Christianity comes with
3:43 inherently that you are not God. You are
3:45 not God and neither are your leaders.
3:48 God is God and all of us stand before
3:50 him in the end to be judged and all of
3:52 us will be found lacking. Christians
3:53 believe the only way to heaven is
3:56 through Jesus. That's the only way.
3:58 But all of us, whether we believe in
4:00 Jesus or not, are fallen. We are
4:02 sinners. We are less than we ought to
4:05 be. We are not gods. And neither are the
4:07 people who lead us. And this has a lot
4:09 of implications. The first being if
4:11 you're not God, you don't get to do
4:13 whatever you want. There are limits.
4:14 There are rules that you didn't write
4:17 that you have to abide by. That's not a
4:20 judgment. That's a statement of fact.
4:22 Some call it natural law. It's been the
4:24 basis of every functioning society since
4:26 the beginning of time. But the basis of
4:28 our society is the Christian
4:31 understanding of justice which flows
4:35 from that belief. You are not God. God
4:37 is. He writes the most basic rules. You
4:39 abide by them. Period. That's the basis
4:41 of our law. That's the basis of Western
4:44 law. And that is a threat, a challenge
4:47 to people who would ignore the limits on
4:49 their behavior. Very much including our
4:50 leaders and very much including the most
4:52 powerful people in our society whether
4:54 they're elected or not. Nobody wants to
4:56 be told you're not allowed to do
4:59 something. And Christianity inherently
5:01 tells people that. Doesn't judge them.
5:04 It just states it clearly. No, you do
5:05 not have the power to kill except
5:07 possibly in self-defense. But you can't
5:10 just go killing people. And you can't go
5:12 killing people because, and this is the
5:13 second thing about Christianity that
5:16 tends to set the teeth of the powerful
5:20 on edge, Christianity insists that every
5:23 human being is created by God. every
5:25 single one. And that means that every
5:28 human being has a soul, a distinct
5:32 unique soul created by God. It is once
5:36 again the only true universalist faith
5:38 there is. And the New Testament is the
5:41 story of this an underread collection of
5:43 books that is not the story of the Old
5:45 Testament is very much the story of the
5:47 New Testament. In the New Testament, all
5:49 people are God's chosen. Every single
5:52 one. And the story itself makes that
5:56 point. The founder of most Christian
5:59 churches in the early near east was a
6:02 former Pharisee, a Jew who was in charge
6:04 of killing Christians until he famously
6:06 met Jesus on the road to Damascus. His
6:08 name was Saul. He became Paul and he is
6:10 the most prolific author in the New
6:12 Testament and the basis of a lot of
6:14 Christian theology. And his life tells
6:18 the story. People can change no matter
6:19 what they look like, no matter what they
6:21 previously believed, no matter where
6:22 they're from, no matter what language
6:24 they speak, because they are created by
6:27 God. And every person, every single
6:29 person, whether you like them or their
6:31 relatives or the way they look or not,
6:33 has that chance because all were created
6:36 by God and all were loved by God. That
6:38 is the basis of Christianity. That's the
6:41 Christian story. And so a sincere
6:43 Christian proceeds with that belief.
6:46 There is no tribalism in Christianity.
6:49 There is no identity politics. It's the
6:52 opposite. You may prefer to be with
6:54 people who look like you. That's fine.
6:56 But God doesn't prefer to be with people
6:58 look like you. God prefers to be with
6:59 all people because he created all
7:02 people. He's the God of the universe,
7:05 not just of the people you like. And
7:08 that again has massive implications for
7:10 the way that sincere Christians live and
7:12 for the way that Charlie Kirk lived his
7:16 life. And the first is if other people
7:18 have souls, if they like you, were
7:20 created by God, then they have freedom
7:22 of conscience.
7:23 You can tell them what they ought to
7:26 think, but you can't make them. You can
7:27 tell them what they ought to say, but
7:30 you can't force them. Christianity does
7:33 not convert by the sword. It can't. It
7:35 requires free will. And it requires free
7:38 will because it respects the individual
7:40 conscience emanating from the distinct
7:44 soul of every human being. And that is
7:46 why in the west which is based on
7:48 Christianity, our civilization is a
7:50 Christian civilization. Tattered though
7:54 it currently is, collective punishment,
7:57 hurting people for the sins of their relatives
7:58 relatives
8:02 is unthinkable. It's a crime because
8:05 each person will stand alone as he was
8:09 made before God and every person is
8:13 equal before God fundamentally. Doesn't
8:15 mean each person is equal in his
8:16 ability. It doesn't mean each per person
8:18 is equal in the choices he makes. Of
8:20 course not. But it means that every
8:23 person is a human being with a divine
8:25 spark inside. That is the core
8:28 assumption of Christianity. And it was
8:30 obvious when you watch Charlie Kirk that
8:32 he believed that. Charlie's been
8:34 famously quoted for the last couple of
8:36 days saying he abhores anti-semitism.
8:37 That is absolutely right. And he did. He
8:39 said that in public and he said it very
8:41 often in private. He meant it too. But
8:44 he abhored racism and bigotry on the
8:47 basis of genetics of all kinds because
8:50 he was a Christian and he believed that
8:53 God created each person. Now why is this
8:56 a problem for temporal authorities? Why
8:58 is it a problem for the people in power?
9:00 Because once again, it circumscribes
9:03 what they can do. It sets a limit on
9:06 their powers. If God created each
9:08 person, including the infuriating,
9:11 annoying, disastrously wrong person I'm
9:14 talking to, then I can't force him to
9:16 repeat my creed. I'm not in charge of
9:20 his conscience. Only he is.
9:22 And that is a limit. So when Charlie
9:25 Kirk said, "I believe in free speech,"
9:27 he didn't simply believe in free speech
9:29 because it was in the Bill of Rights. He
9:30 understood that it was in the Bill of
9:32 Rights because it's in the New
9:34 Testament. He understood that's a right
9:36 that comes from God bestowed on all of
9:40 us at birth. And he felt his job, his
9:42 duty was not simply to protect it, but
9:45 to live it, to show people what that
9:47 looks like. And I just want to play of
9:49 the many clips we could play of Charlie
9:50 Kirk on college campus. He spent his
9:52 whole life
9:54 worn out most of the time. Uh, as an
9:55 older man, I often said to him, "How the
9:57 hell do you get on plane after plane
9:59 after plane?" But he felt an evangelical
10:02 duty, small evangelical duty to do it,
10:04 to get out there and talk to people.
10:06 Why? not simply to build a coalition or
10:08 get this or that person elected, but
10:13 because he believed as a Christian that
10:17 convincing people voluntarily with words
10:19 in the beginning was the word and the
10:22 word was with God and the word was God.
10:25 So the gospel of John begins, words are
10:28 the key to winning people's minds and
10:30 their souls.
10:33 And he really meant this. He wasn't just
10:36 repeating the words. He meant it. And it
10:37 was obvious in the way that he
10:38 interacted with people who disagree with
10:41 him and people who hated him. Here's one
10:44 clip that tells part of the story.
10:46 Would you want someone who is not
10:49 necessarily stable or ready to bring a
10:51 child into this world and provide that
10:53 child the life it deserves? Would you
10:55 want them to still bring that child into
10:55 the world?
10:58 Without a doubt, every every life has a
11:01 moral obligation to be able to live. If
11:04 I can't give that child the life it
11:06 deserves, why am I bringing it to
11:09 Got it. No, this is this will be my last
11:10 question. I I want you to think about
11:13 it. If a single mom has two 2-year-olds,
11:15 twins, and she wakes up one day and
11:17 says, "I can't do it anymore. I can't
11:18 give them the life they deserve."
11:19 But that's just not the circumstance.
11:21 Hold on. Should she be able to take out
11:22 a shotgun and kill both those kids? No.
11:23 No.
11:24 Of course not. Because you think that
11:26 would be objectionable. That's why I
11:27 think it's objectionable to eliminate
11:29 two babies that are 6 weeks old because
11:32 they're morally the same thing. One just
11:34 happens to be bigger. One just happens
11:36 to be older. One just happens to be
11:38 outside of the womb. They're both human
11:40 beings. And you have something in you
11:41 that says, "No way is it okay to kill a
11:43 2-year-old." That's called your soul talking.
11:44 talking.
11:47 You have something in you that tells you
11:49 the truth. You can call it instinct if
11:51 you like. Charlie Kirk referred to it as
11:53 the soul.
11:55 But both mean the same thing. You have
11:58 the spark of the divine, God's spark
12:00 inside you and it reacts. It hums. It
12:03 vibrates like a tuning fork. And you
12:05 know on a basic animal level like your
12:07 dog knows when something is wrong. You
12:10 can feel it. And the whole purpose of
12:12 modern society it seems sometime is to
12:14 get the rest of us to ignore what we
12:17 know. That vibration inside us that
12:19 tells us the truth always. It never lies
12:22 to us. Charlie did not ignore that. And
12:23 you'll notice that in the end he
12:25 appealed to it with that young woman. He
12:27 didn't scream, "You're a murderer" in
12:28 his face. Though he considered abortion
12:31 murder, which it is, he felt that
12:33 deeply. This wasn't a performance. He
12:35 wasn't, you know, another nonprofit
12:38 phony in DC, figning outrage about
12:40 something. He really believed that
12:42 taking innocent life was wrong. in the
12:45 womb or in crowded cities, anywhere. He
12:47 thought it was wrong because his faith
12:49 tells him it's wrong and because his
12:52 conscience confirms that belief. And so
12:54 does yours and so did hers. So did all
12:56 of ours. We know when something is
12:59 wrong. And the people above us shout at
13:01 us, "No, really, there's an explanation
13:03 for it. That's just your super ego
13:07 barking at you." No, you know in your
13:11 heart deep inside what every person has
13:12 known and that is the murder of
13:15 innocence is a crime. It's a moral
13:17 crime. And that girl knew it. And in the
13:20 end, that was Charlie's appeal. Listen
13:23 to that divine spark inside you. Listen
13:26 to your soul speak to you. Turn off the
13:29 music. Get off the drugs. push the
13:31 distractions, which it's hard to believe
13:33 aren't actually designed to crowd out
13:36 that humming inside us, and be still for
13:39 a moment and accept what you already
13:41 know, what you were born knowing. Listen
13:43 to that.
13:46 Only someone who appreciates the person
13:48 he's speaking to as an actual human
13:51 being could speak that way. Notice how
13:53 rare that is. It's been noted in the
13:54 past couple of days, Charlie was a free
13:56 speech champion. Absolutely, he was. And
13:59 I pray that that's his legacy. But I
14:01 also think it's important to explain why
14:03 that mattered to him. It was not
14:06 abstract in any sense. It was central.
14:08 It was the core. Because consider what
14:11 it means if you don't respect free
14:12 speech, which is another way of saying
14:14 free conscience. The right of other
14:16 people to make up their own minds about
14:18 the basic questions of what what is
14:20 right or wrong and to express their
14:22 views on those issues. If you don't
14:24 acknowledge the right of other people to
14:26 do that, and if you take steps to
14:27 prevent them from doing that, what are
14:29 you really saying? You're really saying,
14:31 "I don't think you have a soul. I think
14:33 you're a meat puppet I can control. I
14:35 think you're an animal, maybe suban
14:37 animal. You're a slave. You're a person
14:41 to whom I can dictate belief. I don't
14:42 acknowledge that you have the right to
14:44 come to your own conclusion is another
14:46 way of saying I don't acknowledge that
14:48 you're a human being." It's dark.
14:50 There's nothing darker than that. And
14:53 trust me, they believe it, the ones
14:54 who've thought about it, and there are a
14:57 lot of those. But for a lot of people,
14:59 particularly those who are just
15:01 repeating what they think they should
15:03 say or responding to the momentary rage
15:06 of the moment,
15:08 they just throw stuff out. And we've got
15:10 to hope that the attorney general of the
15:11 United States, Pam Bondi, is in that
15:15 category. She said this just yesterday. Watch.
15:16 Watch.
15:17 There's free speech and then there's
15:20 hate speech. And there is no place,
15:22 especially now, especially after what
15:26 happened to Charlie, in our society,
15:28 there's free speech and then there's
15:29 hate speech. This is the attorney
15:30 general of the United States, the chief
15:32 law enforcement officer of the United
15:33 States telling you that there is this
15:35 other category called hate speech. And
15:37 of course, the implication is that's a crime.
15:38 crime.
15:41 There's almost no sentence that Charlie
15:44 Kirk, and I'm I'm not running the risk
15:46 of appropriating his memory for my own
15:49 ends by saying this, it's provable.
15:51 There's no sentence that Charlie Kirk
15:52 would have objected to more than that.
15:54 And you've got to think the attorney
15:55 general didn't think it through and was
15:57 not attempting to desecrate the memory
15:59 of the person she was purporting to
16:01 celebrate. That she just threw that out
16:03 there. That she hadn't thought about it.
16:05 You hope that. You hope that Charlie
16:10 Kirk's death won't be used by a group we
16:13 now call bad actors to create a society
16:15 that was the opposite of the one he
16:17 worked to build.
16:20 You hope that you hope that a year from
16:23 now the turmoil we're seeing in the
16:24 aftermath of his murder won't be
16:27 leveraged to bring hate speech laws to
16:30 this country. And trust me, if it is, if
16:33 that does happen, there is never a more
16:35 justified moment for civil disobedience
16:36 than that ever. And there never will be.
16:38 Because if they can tell you what to
16:41 say, they're telling you what to think.
16:43 There is nothing they can't do to you
16:45 because they don't consider you human.
16:48 They don't believe you have a soul. A
16:51 human being with a soul, a free man, has
16:53 a right to say what he believes, not to
16:56 hurt other people, but to express his
16:58 views. And by the way, that thinking,
16:59 and not to pile on the attorney general,
17:02 who's a very nice person, but that
17:04 thinking that she just articulated on
17:08 camera there is exactly
17:10 what got us to a place where some huge
17:11 and horrifying percentage of young
17:14 people think it's okay to shoot people
17:16 you disagree with, to kill Nazis for
17:18 saying things they don't like. Why do
17:20 they believe that? How did we get here?
17:22 Is it the video games? Is it the SSRIs?
17:26 Yeah, probably. But what it really is is
17:28 12 and then 16 years of indoctrination
17:30 in our schools at the hands of people
17:32 who tell them that, who say exactly what
17:34 the attorney general just said. Well,
17:35 there's free speech, which of course we
17:37 all acknowledge is important. So, so
17:38 important. But then there's this thing
17:40 called hate speech.
17:41 Hate speech, of course, is any speech
17:43 that the people in power hate. But they
17:45 don't define it that way. They define it
17:47 as speech that hurts people. Speech that
17:49 is tantamount to violence. And we punish
17:52 violence, don't we? Of course we do.
17:55 They've been taught that every year of
17:58 their lives and so naturally most of
18:00 them believe it. When Charlie Kirk is
18:03 shot in the throat with a 306 on camera,
18:06 I doubt very many young Americans want
18:07 to see something like that or actually
18:10 applaud the death of a man, a father, a
18:12 husband. But they've been told for their
18:16 entire lives in schools exactly what Pam
18:18 Bondi just told them. Well, there's free
18:19 speech, but then there's also hate
18:20 speech. and woe to those who engage in
18:24 it because it's a crime. That's a lie.
18:26 And it's a lie that denies the humanity
18:29 of the people you're telling it about.
18:32 And so any attempt to impose hate speech
18:34 laws in this country, and trust me,
18:35 there are a lot of people who would like
18:36 them. There are a lot of people who'd
18:39 like to codify their own beliefs by
18:41 punishing those under the US code who
18:44 disagree with their beliefs. Any attempt
18:47 to do that is a denial of the humanity
18:50 of American citizens and cannot be
18:52 allowed under any circumstances. That's
18:54 got to be the red line because again,
18:56 when they can do that, what can't they
18:58 do? And this is something, by the way,
19:00 that Charlie thought about a lot and
19:03 that I had occasion to talk to him about
19:05 a lot. And I really don't want to make
19:07 any of this about me because it has
19:09 nothing to do with me. But I did have
19:11 reason to have these conversations with
19:14 Charlie a lot. many many times over the
19:16 past three or four months. And this
19:20 began um at an event that he held in
19:23 Florida in July, the TPUSA MFEST event,
19:26 Turning Point event. I often go I always
19:27 have the best time. I always see Charlie
19:28 ahead of time. We have a cup of coffee
19:30 in a hotel room, talk about what's going
19:33 on. In addition to being, of course, a
19:34 conservative advocate, he was also a
19:36 conservative organizer and a coalition
19:37 builder, and he was very involved in
19:39 politics in a way that I'm not. So, it
19:40 was interesting as hell, but it was also
19:43 a way to learn what young people are
19:44 thinking about, talking about, because
19:46 he was on college campuses all the time.
19:48 And what is the state of a couple of big
19:50 debates that are happening within the
19:51 Republican coalition, particularly
19:54 around foreign policy and Charlie's
19:55 views on foreign policy, which I think
19:57 are fairly wellnown now, a lot of people
20:00 lying about them, um, were evolving, uh,
20:04 but had really evolved, um, and who
20:06 knows why he reached the conclusions it
20:07 did. I I think his Christian faith
20:10 informed them mostly was also the
20:11 experience of talking to young people
20:13 and his views were very much like
20:15 theirs. He believed that the war on
20:17 terror had been in net loss for the
20:18 United States and it caused incalcable
20:21 damage not just economic and physical
20:22 damage but spiritual damage to the
20:23 United States. It was it was bad. We got
20:26 nothing out of it. We were only hurt and
20:27 he didn't want to see that again. And he
20:30 felt very strongly about that. And of
20:34 course I agreed. Uh and so before that
20:36 speech that I gave in July, we had a
20:39 conversation about this backstage uh
20:42 right before I went on and I was
20:43 fulminating and getting all red in the
20:46 face like I often do to my shame and I
20:48 was mad thinking about this and thinking
20:50 about uh the effort by the neocons in
20:53 the United States to draw us in to
20:56 another forever war with Iran. It's not
20:57 a defense of Iran, of course. It's
20:59 merely an acknowledgement that we've
21:01 done this before. Uh this happened in
21:03 Iraq which uh you know we we entered
21:06 into uh at the behest of those same
21:10 foreign policy strategists um and and it
21:12 didn't work. And so I was going on at
21:15 some length backstage with Charlie and I
21:18 said uh you know probably not going to
21:19 talk about that. I'm not going to
21:20 torture you. I know your donors hate
21:23 this when I say that. Um, and also
21:26 Epstein was in the news and it was clear
21:28 to me that, you know, Epstein's probably
21:30 not like a MSAD agent or something, but
21:33 Epstein clearly had contact with Israeli
21:34 intelligence and American intelligence
21:36 and French intelligence, but the only
21:37 one you're not allowed to talk about is
21:39 Israeli intelligence. But it's it seemed
21:41 true to me and I had done uh some work
21:43 on that and I knew a bunch of people
21:45 pretty close to that story. So So I
21:46 thought that and I said that to Charlie
21:48 and I said, "But I'm not going to say
21:49 that because I don't want to make your
21:50 donors mad. I know. It's just going to
21:52 be like an endless
21:54 flurry of texts telling you to stop or
21:57 you're going to lose a bunch of funding.
21:59 And he looked at me, I'll never forget
22:02 it. And said, "Go all the way. Do it. Go
22:04 all the way." I said, "Man, I you know,
22:06 a lot of things I can talk about. I
22:07 don't need to talk about that." And he
22:10 said, "Do it." So, I did it. By the way,
22:12 I think that that conversation hit a mic
22:14 on and so did I. Probably exists
22:15 somewhere on somebody's server. But
22:17 that's I think a faithful rendition of
22:19 what he said. Um, and by the way, I'm
22:20 not trying to blame him for my remarks.
22:22 You can agree or disagree with those
22:24 remarks, but I I'm saying this only
22:28 because I was uh shocked and sickened by
22:31 the reaction of the ghoulish and really
22:33 repulsive reaction of the prime minister
22:35 of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, to
22:38 Charlie's death. basically made it all
22:40 about him and all about his country
22:43 immediately trying to
22:45 take the energy, the sadness, the grief
22:47 that people felt over Charlie's murder
22:49 and redirect it towards support for
22:51 whatever project he's involved in. And
22:53 by the way, Benjamin Netanyahu is not
22:56 the same as the nation of Israel at all.
22:59 Uh BB is despised by many people uh in
23:01 Israel. And if you know people who live
23:02 there, you know that that's true. Um
23:04 there are huge divisions within the
23:05 Israeli government. I mean, there are
23:07 certain parts of the the intel world uh
23:09 in Israel that do not support some
23:11 things that Benjamin Netanyahu has done
23:13 recently. So, it's not the same as
23:15 attacking Israel, attacking BB. But I I
23:16 don't think I've ever seen anything
23:20 lower than his attempt to hijack
23:22 Charlie's memory and use it for his own
23:23 political ends, particularly because
23:27 what he said was completely untrue.
23:29 Charlie didn't hate Jews. He loved Jews.
23:30 He had tons of friends who were Jews. He
23:32 loved the state of Israel. He loved
23:33 going there. He did not like BB
23:34 Netanyahu. And he said that to me many
23:36 times and he said it to people around
23:39 him many times. He felt that BB
23:42 Netanyahu was a very destructive force.
23:45 He was appalled by what was happening in Gaza.
23:46 Gaza.
23:50 He was above all resentful that he
23:52 believed Netanyahu was using the United
23:55 States to prosecute his wars for the
23:57 benefit of his country and that it was
23:59 shameful and embarrassing and bad for
24:01 the United States. And he resented it.
24:03 Didn't hate Netanyahu. He wasn't out
24:06 there with a placard saying that, but he
24:08 certainly expressed that to me and a lot
24:10 of other people. And there's no question
24:13 that BB's defenders uh on the internet
24:15 will call me a liar or a kook. Uh but
24:17 that's a fact. And enough text messages
24:20 exist that I think it can probably be
24:21 verified in pretty short order. Not that
24:24 it needs to be because that is true. Um
24:27 shortly after that speech, there was a
24:28 very intense attack on Charlie and to
24:30 some extent on me. Not that I really
24:32 noticed, but on him. I have no donors.
24:34 he had $100 million worth of donors and
24:36 so because he was involved in a
24:37 different project from just yapping on
24:38 the internet which is what I do for a
24:40 living. Um he was dependent to a great
24:43 extent on his donors of course it's a
24:45 nonprofit and they went after him and
24:47 tormented him. Not all of course many
24:49 were supportive but uh the ones who were
24:51 offended by my speech and there was a a
24:53 small very intense group who were
24:55 tormented Charlie Kirk until the day he
24:58 died. two days before he died, he lost a
25:01 $2 million dollar donation because he
25:03 had publicly pledged to bring me to the
25:05 next Turning Point conference in
25:07 December. And he told me over the past
25:09 couple of months he was losing a lot of
25:11 donations over that pledge. They put out
25:13 a flyer basically saying that I was
25:14 going to be at this event giving a
25:16 speech. And so he would text me and say,
25:18 "Man, I'm really taking a lot of heat
25:20 for this and people are really mad." The
25:23 American Jewish Committee called in a
25:26 statement Charlie Kirk an anti-semite
25:28 and quote dangerous. Charlie Kirk an
25:31 anti-semite. Yeah. Um he was not an
25:34 anti-semite. He was the opposite and he
25:37 was not dangerous. He was a great lover
25:39 of people and a purveyor of peace. He
25:41 was the opposite and he was very stung
25:42 by that. Those of us who've been called
25:44 names for a long time are a little bit
25:46 harder to offend. Charlie was deeply
25:47 offended by that and expressed some of
25:50 those feelings on Megan Kelly show and
25:53 in other places, but that did not let
25:55 up. The reason I'm telling the story is
25:57 because he called me and then came to
26:00 see me at my house about this topic and
26:02 uh I said to him every single time,
26:04 look, it's, you know, I've got my own
26:06 way to communicate my views. This is
26:08 actually not the most important issue to
26:09 me. There lots of things I can talk
26:11 about. I don't need to come to turning
26:12 point. I can take a year off, no
26:15 problem. I hated seeing how much he was
26:18 suffering, the hassle he was getting
26:20 from people. Uh, and I was being
26:22 attacked too, by the way. It was a huge
26:25 effort. Uh, I wasn't fully aware of it
26:26 actually because I don't go online that
26:28 much, but there was a huge effort by
26:29 people, some of whom I know and have
26:31 helped and like Seth Dylan of the
26:33 Babylon B for example, someone who had
26:35 his own problems with free speech who
26:38 was famously cancelled. Um, and I I like
26:39 Seth Dylan. I had him on a couple of
26:40 times. I had dinner with him to show
26:42 support. Seth Dylan was out there
26:45 demanding that Charlie Kirk take me off
26:47 the roster, pull me off stage because I
26:49 had said things that BB didn't like or
26:51 that he didn't like or whatever.
26:55 Shocking that someone whose whole
26:57 persona is wrapped up in the idea that
26:59 we all get to speak and if you don't
27:02 like it, make a more compelling case.
27:05 that that person and many others like
27:08 him were advocating for me getting
27:10 pulled off the stage because they don't
27:13 like what I'm saying.
27:15 This is a trend and one that we should
27:16 be really concerned about. It's not just
27:19 about Israel, by the way, at all. The
27:21 trend is really simple. People with
27:23 power don't want to hear disagreement.
27:24 They don't want to be challenged ever.
27:26 That's why we have free speech to
27:29 acknowledge that even those of us or
27:31 people with less power still have a
27:32 right to talk because they're human
27:36 beings. You don't own them. So time
27:37 after time, Charlie would call me or
27:40 come to see me and let me know, wow, or
27:41 show me text messages. These people are
27:43 really mad that you're speaking. And I
27:44 would always have the same thought, like
27:46 I feel pretty moderate, actually. I've
27:48 never been an Israel hater. Obviously,
27:50 I'm not an anti-semite. I just don't
27:52 want more wars. and I don't want a
27:54 foreign country humiliating my country
27:56 and telling us what our laws have to be.
27:57 I mean, this seems like pretty basic
27:58 America first stuff. And he would say,
28:00 "I totally agree with you, but they want
28:03 you off the stage." And I would always
28:05 say, "No problem." And he would say,
28:07 "No, it's important.
28:10 It's a matter of principle. I want you
28:17 By the way, I'm not accusing anyone of
28:18 being involved in that murder. I'm not
28:21 trying to mutter darkly or imply
28:23 anything. We don't there's a lot we
28:24 don't know about who murdered Charlie
28:26 and why. But I I don't know and I'm not
28:28 going to pretend that I do. But I think
28:30 it's important to say that out loud
28:33 because it's a fact and there are many
28:36 liars out there trying BB Netanyahu
28:38 number one among them shamefully
28:40 who are trying to distort the truth. A
28:43 truth that I know and can prove. And the
28:45 last thing I'll say about Charlie is
28:47 that his views were changing on topics
28:48 that had nothing to do with foreign
28:50 policy. You know, the famous kind of red
28:53 line, third rail, can't talk about it.
28:56 But it's possible that the subject that
28:58 makes people even matter in Washington,
29:01 New York, and LA having non-conventional
29:03 foreign policy views is having
29:04 non-conventional economic views. Man,
29:07 they really don't like that at all. And
29:09 Charlie's views on economics and on the
29:10 way that wealth is distributed in the
29:13 United States were changing fast. Really
29:16 changing fast and and hardening. Not
29:18 because he was a socialist. Hardly. He
29:19 was about as much of a socialist as I
29:23 am. Not at all. Um but because he lived
29:24 here and he spent a lot of time with
29:26 young people and he couldn't help but
29:28 notice because he was an observant and
29:29 honest person that they're not thriving
29:31 at all and that the chances they'll have
29:33 lives comparable to the ones they had
29:35 growing up are very small.
29:37 Most of them won't have houses. They
29:40 won't own anything. They'll be in debt.
29:41 And for that reason, they won't get
29:43 married or have children. And so, the
29:45 people who are born here won't continue
29:48 their legacy in the United States. It's
29:50 it's the end of our civilization.
29:52 And the root of a lot of this is
29:53 spiritual, but the root is also economic.
29:55 economic.
29:57 And it raises a question, a basic
30:00 question of fairness. And I tried to
30:01 address this in the speech that I gave
30:03 for Charlie in July. I don't think I did
30:04 a very good job. and it was
30:07 misinterpreted, but I invoked Bill Aman.
30:08 And the point I was making had nothing
30:10 to do with Bill Aman being a criminal or
30:13 even being an Epstein
30:14 friend. I mean, I I don't really know
30:15 anything about that. I don't know much
30:18 about I'm not accusing Bill Aman of a
30:20 crime. And I'm not accusing him of, you
30:22 know, being a sex creep or a massage
30:24 agent or anything like that. I don't
30:26 think that I don't know that for sure.
30:27 And I wasn't trying to say it. What I
30:30 was trying to say is that Bill Aman is
30:32 not creative, not particularly intelligent.
30:34 intelligent.
30:36 Bill Aman is worth $7 billion. So you
30:40 have to ask like how. And it seems to me
30:43 that Bill Aman is rich for the same
30:44 reasons that a lot of other people I
30:46 know are rich because he's hyperaggressive
30:47 hyperaggressive
30:49 and he's wellconed.
30:52 And my only point was if you live in a
30:54 society that awards the spoils to people
30:56 on the basis of those two qualities like
30:58 the most aggressive, the best connected
31:00 people get the richest, that's a
31:03 dysfunctional society.
31:06 There should be a reward for creativity
31:08 and decency and hard work,
31:11 steadfastness, following the rules. Like
31:13 you should have to add to the sum total
31:16 of your society. You'd think it's not an
31:18 argument against the free market. It's
31:19 an argument against whatever we're
31:20 living through right now. This is really
31:23 dark and ugly. And if people like Bill
31:24 Aman are getting the richest, what has
31:26 Bill Aman done? Shorted the market or
31:28 something? Talk down herbal life. I
31:29 mean, I'm not even saying that should be
31:32 illegal. All I'm saying is if that's one
31:33 of the richest guys in your society,
31:36 you've got a very sick society. I don't
31:38 think Billman's like a drooling idiot or
31:39 anything, but like when was the last
31:41 time you heard Bill Aman say something
31:44 constructive or creative? Like never.
31:45 So, it's just bad. And it's not just
31:47 about Bill Aman, of course. I mean, he's
31:49 just a minor player in the life of the
31:51 world, but he's a kind of metaphor for
31:54 how off track we've gone. And that
31:56 doesn't seem like a socialist point.
31:57 Once again, I'm hardly a socialist and
31:59 neither was Charlie Kirk. That seems
32:01 like a Christian point. Fairness is at
32:05 the root of the Christian story. People
32:07 will be judged not by who their parents
32:10 were or by how they look, but on their
32:12 hearts, on themselves, on choices that
32:16 they made. That's fair. So again,
32:18 fairness is essential to the gospel and
32:22 it's essential to any working society.
32:25 In a fair society or a society that its
32:27 citizens believe is fair, people will
32:29 comply voluntarily with the rules
32:31 because they don't think the game is
32:33 rigged. But in a society in which Bill
32:36 Aman, Bill Aman
32:39 makes seven billion dollars and like the
32:40 smartest, hardest working, most
32:42 interesting, creative young people, you
32:45 know, can never own a home in a society
32:47 like that, you're going to get Mum
32:49 Donnie as mayor, you're going to get a
32:50 lot of bad things cuz people will opt
32:53 out of the society because they know
32:56 it's not fair. It's rigged. That's the
32:57 only point I was trying to make. And
32:59 Charlie, not surprisingly, made it much
33:01 more eloquently, I thought, in an
33:02 amazing interview, the last interview I
33:05 did with him, uh, late July of this
33:07 year. Here's part of it.
33:09 We know how to create wealth, but we
33:11 don't know how to create it for the
33:13 generation that needs it most. If you
33:14 look at the economic conditions, you
33:16 would think the other conditions
33:18 surrounding it are like abject poverty.
33:19 These are the problems that like third
33:20 world nations have.
33:21 I know
33:22 our young people can't afford stuff and
33:24 they have to finance their basic
33:25 necessities. And yet we're the
33:27 wealthiest nation in the history of the
33:29 world on the planet. We have a $ 37
33:31 trillion GDP. We have the greatest
33:33 companies and we have all this stuff to
33:36 brag about. And yet all of our problems
33:38 would beg the question and it's like
33:41 this inherent contradiction. We're super
33:42 wealthy on one side, like a powerhouse
33:46 juggernaut, and we are like an economic
33:48 nightmare on the other side. How did
33:50 that happen?
33:53 So, if there is such a thing as the left
33:55 in the United States, if it still
33:57 exists, you would think a message like
34:00 that would at least get a hearing, a
34:02 respectful hearing.
34:05 Like, hey, what about wages? What about
34:06 the ability of young people to just buy
34:08 a little house with a little yawn and
34:10 sub lawn in some subdivision? Like, what
34:12 isn't that kind of what they say? They
34:14 want empower, you know, the most
34:16 vulnerable, the people who try hard and
34:18 play by the rules.
34:21 They called him a Nazi. They didn't care
34:23 that Charlie Kirk in real life spent his
34:27 trying time trying to stop war
34:29 trying to, you know, figure out how
34:31 young people could buy a little house somewhere.
34:32 somewhere.
34:36 Aren't those like left-wing goals?
34:38 No, they didn't care at all. And in
34:40 fact, they hated that because they're
34:42 for war, because they're for death.
34:44 because they're for the inequality he described
34:46 described
34:48 because it leads to a volatile society
34:51 that empowers them. Of course, they're
34:55 not a check on power, the professional
34:57 left, the trans community.
34:59 They're the shock troops of power.
35:03 Charlie Kirk was a check on power.
35:05 Charlie Kirk, inspired by his Christian
35:07 faith, stood up to people
35:10 fearlessly to say what he thought was true.
35:11 true.
35:14 And for that I will always love and
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