The conversation delves into the entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing the importance of practical problem-solving, rapid iteration, and building a strong, collaborative culture over rigid planning and traditional methodologies.
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What's really hard, I think, is when
you're sitting in a coffee shop with
with a notebook trying to come up with
>> All right, Solomon, T's up.
>> Let's roll.
>> So, almost at the end of the year.
>> Yes, sir.
>> It's quite crazy that this company
started. Not even at I mean, it was the
beginning, but it wasn't like January.
It was what April that this company got started.
started.
>> The product started in April. They
launched the product in April, but the
company started >> January.
>> January.
>> Well, you you've been telling me about
it since like Novemberish of last year. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> The idea originated like a year ago,
like a year before a year ago,
>> maybe even before November. Might have
been like September, October.
>> Yeah. I I think if I if I go back to my
DMs, it would probably be September,
October. I was speaking to you about the
idea. December comes along. Um, that's
when the repo was created and that's
when I would officially say like the
company began when we when we opened the
the GitHub account, the organization. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, and then
I think
I think we incorporated on the the 5th
of January.
>> Yep. And this whole time I remember you
reached out. I saw the DMs back from then
then
>> and you're telling me about the idea and
I thought it was a great idea but you
know I still had to make ends meet so I
couldn't quite jump ship and join you
right then and there. Um I think you
just kept pushing and you know
>> would you say you didn't have enough
conviction to jump ship?
>> No, I don't think it was a conviction
thing. I think it was a >> skill.
>> skill.
>> It was like I just had a kid. I kind of
got to pay bills.
>> Yes, fair enough. Um, yeah. So, I was
just waiting for uh it to pick up a
little bit more emotion, but uh but I
did feel FOMO. I feel like I I did feel
like there's a chance that this takes
off and I'm not part of it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> My hands were tied.
>> You just wanted to have fun with the boys.
boys.
>> I think that's
that is genuinely what it comes down to,
by the way. All right. So I think part
of part of it I could have been
interested in doing anything I think but
I just knew that I wanted to do
something with you and Mariano.
>> Yeah cuz we had like when we were
actually like peak leap actually
building stuff
>> we just had fun working on stuff
together. It's almost like no matter
what we build >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> you were just enjoying the process.
>> Could have been anything.
>> Surround yourself with good people,
smart people.
>> Have fun.
>> But I did think it was a good idea too.
But it was just like it was a good
combination of like the idea was great.
>> It's the best idea. I thought it would
work because it's it wasn't complicated.
You could explain in one sentence. It's
>> it's the best idea we'll ever have.
>> It's like we're doing this. We're
automating it with AI. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Cheaper, faster. The whole thing makes sense.
sense.
>> There's like zero I I have zero doubt in
my mind that I will I will never have a
better idea than compi
>> cuz it's just genius.
>> I feel like you're good though.
>> Um maybe.
>> Yeah. I feel like even now that we're
operating like I feel like we run into
those ideas all the time. You know what
I mean? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. the drone Waspie.
>> All right. Do you want to explain what
that is?
>> You want to explain Waspie? All right.
So, Waspie is a is another idea for a
company that we had.
>> I had not him. He doesn't
>> endorse. He doesn't want He doesn't
endorse this.
>> Um, so hear me out.
Drones that extinguish pests. All right.
So, right now, we we had a we had an
issue with um we had like a wasp nest
outside our office in in the UK, and we
had to actually call a guy to come and
fix it, right? So, he comes around,
>> we paid 200 bucks, whatever it was. Um
>> he's there for 5 minutes. He sprays it
with some like spray and then disappears.
disappears.
>> He's like, "Yeah." Like, he's like,
"Yeah, that'll be fixed in like 1 hour.
Just you can go back."
>> How How much did you pay this guy?
>> Like 200 bucks. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And just show up with
>> Yeah. Tell me why a drone can't just
like come in.
>> No, they can do it. My my issue is is if
we can't even get the regulation passed
to actually have drones for deliveries,
>> which is the number one use case.
>> You just do it. You'd break the law. Okay.
Okay.
>> In 2 seconds,
>> like Uber,
>> they weren't allowed to drive their They
weren't like regulated for a long time.
Yeah. They just paid the fines.
>> You can't fly a swarm of drones over the
UK. US.
I know what I know what Obama would do.
Jesus Christ. I
I
>> honestly I would do it.
>> I mean, listen.
>> You know what? Like, I would get
arrested for waspy.
>> Who am I to shut down your audience?
>> That's what the police would say. That's
what I would say to the police. Who are
you to shut down my idea, you know?
Like, no. I I think it's a great idea. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, if comp doesn't work out.
>> Okay. Wasp is always uh
>> Yes. That's my backup.
>> That's a strong second. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. vibe drones.
>> Yeah. To to me, I'm just excited about
all the new stuff that like we like as
we go. I mean, now we have a I've been
working a lot of products on the side
for even making our media more
efficient. And I think all these could
be businesses. I just don't have time to
actually like turn them into
full-fledged products, market them, all
that stuff. Also, what we're doing now
with uh like cyber security and, you
know, pentesting, automation, and it's
basically a defense company in its own right.
right. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> That could exist even without the
automation piece. So I feel like once
you're operating, you just keep
stumbling upon things that now that we
have all these models, it's like
everything could be better.
>> Yeah. The more like problems we solve
internally for like our customers, we
hear more about like
you figure out like what they want, what
they need, and
>> like consistently throughout the
process, we're like, "Oh [ __ ] we should
build this. We should do this. We should
add this feature. We should
>> But that comes after you're like deep in
some conversation." Like what's really
hard I think is when you're super high
level just you know sitting in a coffee
shop with with a notebook trying to come
up with ideas like that never works
>> like it's more about I keep hearing I
stumble upon problems or I keep hearing
about problems from people.
>> Do you think Mark Zuckerberg was like
sat in like a like a bougie cafe
I might I might make a company that
makes my friends he was just like you
know what I hate women. He he was like
that right he's a bit of an incel about
it and then you know he he made that
like hot or not looking thing and then
then Facebook comes around >> right
>> right
he he had a problem he solved it
>> he had a problem he didn't know he the
rankings and uh
>> how to aggregate people's information so
you can contact them
>> he was a bit of a loose cannon
>> and he just went and shipped something
>> and it turned into like a what trillion
dollar business
>> something beautiful about just shipping
stuff like as it comes and I think
>> we do that a lot in the It's like as we
stumble upon a problem, we just log in
for a day or two. Next thing you know,
we have a new product that does
something useful. Sometimes it doesn't
work. Sometimes it's just stupid. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But when it does work, it's great.
>> I have a question for you. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. What do you think has worked
the most at comp? Like if you just like
took everything if if you peeled from
>> strategy space, marketing wise.
>> Yeah. No one cares about strategy
product, right? Let's just say you got
into the office one day and you're like,
you know what? I'm going to vibe code
something. I'm going to make something
today which is going to improve a
process for everybody in the company.
I'm going to fix something. If you could
take one thing, what do you think it was
up until this point?
>> I mean, it's a combination of a lot of
like little wins that that compound.
It's hard to say because a lot of stuff
that we do, we just immediately ship it
as a feature into the product. It just
kind of makes it better. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> I mean, I think
>> it could be an internal tool. It could
be something like the the GTM dashboard
that you made. That's pretty cool.
>> But everything kind of leads to
something else, right? So like even the
dashboards that we made internally to
aggregate a bunch of data, we're not
using them as much right now, but they
did inspire the team to go and create
better dashboards. So even though now
they're deprecated or I guess they're
not they're not getting usage, like it
kind of enabled the next generation of
of of ideas in the company to flourish. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> You know what I mean? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
>> What I'm most excited about right now is
all the tools that we're doing in media.
>> You set the tone for everybody else,
right? So everybody knows that they
should be
>> I was pissed off one day that I was
there was no not enough data visibility.
I was like, we keep making decisions and
no one's really looking at the numbers
all the time. And part of the problem
was there's all this data that lives
everywhere. You have to go to seven
different platforms to piece together
what the [ __ ] is going on with with go
to market marketing. Um, let's put it in
one place. We're technical. We we can
aggregate data sources.
>> Um, so it kind of forced us to start
thinking a little bit more, you know, analytically.
analytically.
>> That's one thing I love about
Connissell. All right. So even even
their nontechnical hires, they have like
a like a notion. I saw this today. They
have like a notion um like checklist or
like a guide for nontechnical hires on
how to actually use cursor to vibe code
like stuff that they would need
internally. So everyone's like
encouraged even if you're a saleserson
you're a you're you're a marketing
person who's never like coded anything.
You can't join cursor and not not be
expected to to use a product figure out
how it works. Like you as a marketer
need to understand how the product
works. And if you're a non technical
marketer, how could you do that without
actually using the product and then
learning how to become a coder?
>> And honestly, the bar is so low
nowadays. Like even my dad is using cursor,
cursor,
>> dude. Yeah,
>> dude. My dad my dad's like 60some.
>> He's never he's never programmed in his
life. He's never been a computer guy at all.
all.
>> And then he wanted his own personal
website. I taught him about Vzero. He
went in, he started learning how to
prompt and get a get a website going. At
some point, he had the limit of the
tool. So I was like, "Okay, we got to
eject from V 0. Let's go to cursor here.
Here it goes. It's almost the same
thing. I taught him how to run a server
in his terminal.
>> Do two commands. Bun rundev." >> Easy.
>> Easy.
>> And you also have the chat. So you can
keep doing what you're doing. And now
he's fully on cursor.
>> It's unbelievable what you can do. If my
dad can do it, honestly, there's no
excuse for anyone at a tech company in
their 30s.
>> Imagine you're like a guy working at
like JP Morgan and you're like, I wish I
could make my own company, but I don't
know how to code. I'm never going to do
it. like just go and [ __ ] do it.
>> I think also the problem is like the
people that they're surrounded with are
not people that are doing it themselves.
So like how are they going to get the
insight to
>> you know what I mean? Like we're our
ecosystems like tech people, Twitter,
whatever like we keep hearing about all
these tools but 99% of people have no
idea what's possible.
>> Do you think it's like if you were a VC
would you invest in a a founder that was non-technical?
non-technical?
>> Absolutely not. even in like even now,
>> you know, I think the only exception
would be like someone that's like just
really good at recruiting that like they
they brought in some some cracked
technical talent.
>> Yeah. That like a
>> but they would have already had to prove
it. Like if it's just a nontechnical person
person
>> just speaking out of their ass and
trying to convince you that they can
build a company and they haven't proven
that they can
>> make the tech happen.
>> Like the the bar is just go unlovable or
replet or zero
>> or recruit someone. But like either of
those things has to be true. And if you
don't have either, then you're
>> I don't think I would hire I don't think
I would invest in a company even if they
were non-technical if they hadn't at
least tried to use something like lovable.
lovable.
>> Yeah. If they're not even thinking about
using those tools, that's an issue.
>> Yeah. Because it's like they're not they
they don't have a deep understanding of
how works in 2025. There's no way.
>> What's going to happen two years? Let's
say they do build a company, they do
succeed in the early days, but now it's
like 2 years later they're operating.
their teams don't have the DNA or the culture.
culture. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> To be using those tools if the founder
is not driving adoption.
>> One one good like um I guess data point
I have is our first account executive
hire Michael. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So Michael comes in for for those
at home who don't know. He comes in um
he's a nontechnical person always done
sales in his life. The first like couple
of weeks he literally like vibe codes a
lovable sales deck for Compai. Y
>> right. So he uh I was just like brain
dumping info in him because I've never
like sat down as as a founder. I've
never like sat down when in notion or
written like a document on um like our
pricing structure cuz I just have that
in my head. I know what to say on sales
calls. I know what to um like what
features to talk about. But a saleserson
who's joining the organization has like
zero context that stuff. So, but instead
of just like coming to me and being
like, "I need you to write this down."
He's like, he's like, "What's like the
main points? Like, what are the things
that people are buying for? What are the
pains you solve?" He comes back like a
week later and he's like, "Check this out."
out."
>> He's got like a full deck there. He has
all of the pricing structure that he's
like he's seen from conversations that
we've had um from the demo calls that he
joined when I was still doing it. Like,
>> that DNA will like pass on to every
every other hire that we that we do in
that in that team, right? Like you
imagine if it was just like a normal guy
that came in and was like had no
interest in that. I'd probably still
right now be like answering questions on
like% like what our prices are, you
know, cuz I'm I'm never going to write
it down.
>> That reminds me of like I mean to answer
your question about what has been one of
the the best wins that we've had around
something we V coded or just like put
together quickly. Um, you just reminded
me of a good one which is when we did
the strategy, mission, vision, pitch
deck, and data room.
>> And those things like literally two,
three years ago, I remember struggling
just like staring at an empty page.
>> You'd be there for like 2 weeks.
>> You have writer's block and you're just
there sitting forever. And what we did
right now is very similar to what
Michael did where basically we were just
and with even with whisper flow, right?
Where I was like literally with my voice
with a mic just like this one and I'm
like explaining everything that's in my
head similar to you. Hey, you know how
to how to pitch your sales. I was just
talking about like everything we've told
VCs about about mission about vision.
Let's get it on paper. Let's structure
it. So what we did is we actually
created an entire site that basically
captures it's basically a vivecoded internal
internal
basically information site that captures
everything about our strategy, you know,
our go to market, our mission, vision,
long-term. I think we we we call it like
our master plan is like a 5y year, 10
year master plan.
>> It's still online right now.
>> It's still online for us internally.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a private project, but
it's it's epic. I think it's honestly
helped drive a lot of decisions that
otherwise I don't think we would have
found the time to like sit down and
actually craft out
>> cuz we're busy operating.
>> No one's going to, you know, take the
time to write like a like a spreadsheet on
on
>> like imagine if I came to you on a
Monday like random week. We're busy.
We're growing and we we got to we got to
close more sales. We got to build more
product, right? I said like, you know
what, Louis, I'm going to take a week
and a half
>> to to to to stare at Google Doc.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And type into it because I think coming
up with a document is important.
>> There is no chance.
>> There's no chance. >> No,
>> No,
>> there's no chance. Instead, we in a day,
less than a day.
>> Maybe we just have like severe ADHD,
right? So maybe we're just not those
kind of like
>> I know some people do, but like but but
also like look at the net effect
beneficial though. I mean
>> like do you think is it possible that we
we are doing a worse job because we
don't do that stuff?
I don't think so because I think we I
think we're good at recognizing when
we're not going deep enough and either
we we delegate to someone who does have
the time to to go deep into a certain thing.
thing. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Or we actually just bite the bullet when
it when it's really important. But I
think that the bar in terms of
>> what should we be spending our time on?
Like it's it's harder to justify that
you should spend your time on something
unless it really merits it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So it creates more of an ongoing
urgency. If it's not like directly,
>> if it's not that important, you by
default, you want to invest the time. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> It's only if it's a burning issue,
you're like, "Okay,
>> yeah, there's no way around it." You
know what I mean? Like, we got to do it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I think as a founder, that's
actually kind of a superpower because
you end up moving really really fast and
you don't focus on unimportant details.
>> I mean, we never even had like a like a
real pitch deck for for the series A
that we
>> No, people do and they sit there up
front and they they invest in it. And
for us, it I think it was just more like
let's keep talking about it. Let's keep
you know what? Let's go straight into
conversations with VCs. How many times
did we show up and we had we had nothing.
nothing.
>> There was no laptop meetings. Nothing.
>> Dude, that that was like one of the the
favorite points of the company for me
going around Manhattan, the [ __ ] um
the SUVs, all of the different like VC
offices, IRL like meetings. I remember I
remember walking into into one of them
and you know they have this like
>> giant hallway with these portraits and
you're like staring at the faces of some
of the top founders in our generation
frankly like some of the biggest
companies out there
>> and you're just kind of like wow like I
can't believe that I'm here like coming
from an SUV into that hallway
>> they were in that room at some point
like they were in like room walking in
their footsteps and and and we have a
good business so it's like this legit
legitimately like there's no reason to
doubt ourselves from having a similar
outcome. So
>> I mean we're wearing suits, you know, like
like
>> we must have done something right
>> to deserve suits.
>> Do we do we have fitted suits? >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And you know what? Even if we hadn't
done it, even if we haven't succeeded,
like we're manifesting and part of it is
like, okay, you you got to I mean it's a
metaphor, right? It's like you you you
got to sell it before you have it in a way.
way.
>> 100%. that starts I mean we have a
working business don't get me wrong but
we're aspiring to more and we're raising
the bar constantly that that that means
improve like always you know even when
you do sales like we we can talk about
here are the next things that we're
shipping every feature is 2 weeks away
so if we're in a sales call right and
someone's like hey can you do this yes
we'll we'll figure out how to make it
happen in two weeks
>> I don't think we've ever said no
>> to someone who said can you do this can
you can you support this feature can can
compai do this right now I don't think
there's ever been a time on a sales call
where I've said nah.
>> And you know what? Like we can figure it
out. We can figure everything out.
>> We can definitely figure it out. Here's
my thing. I think in the past, right,
and this is when I was working at
companies like five, six years ago when
I was an employee. Um this is before the
AI era. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Those commitments were really expensive.
So every time you said yes to stuff,
>> you were screwed. You were you were on
the hook on the road map for 3 6 months. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> And if you didn't deliver, you lose that deal.
deal.
>> You'd have a project manager freaking
out, right? You'd have like a whole team
of people freaking out. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Now you're just like, you know what,
Mariano, figure it out.
>> Yeah. There's something special about
you can actually say yes to many, many
more things than you're used to
>> and you can actually deliver on it in
time because the tools are getting so
good that there's almost nothing that
you can't ship. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> It's it's changing the mechanics. That's
why I actually think like we should be
cautious around if you ever bring in
like let's say like a like a product manager
manager
or someone like that >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean? project manager
kind of like organization.
>> I feel like I feel like we would we we
would be like
>> I think at some point you need some
version of that to help coordinate
across teams but I think we got to be
careful with like it not being type of
person that
>> they have to be held accountable. I
think you have to like that's the thing
I hate about like project manager people.
people. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> They go from like project to project and
they kind of like
>> what's their KPI? How do you evaluate
success or performance? Right.
>> Yeah. It's it's like it's a hard one for me.
me.
>> Yeah. Yeah,
>> but I feel like if we hired like a like
a PM, you'd be able to like quickly see
like what ROI they were returning. Like
we'd figure out like some sort of like
KPI to like determine their level of
success. But it would be pretty hard as
well. Like I don't think we
>> like I come from a product background
and you typically would like tie it to
some form of like
>> you know like product success. So, it's
like, okay, monetization on a certain
product, like how much revenue this
product generate, that's kind of on you
to own the whole thing, you know, like
MPS on on a specific product, like stuff
like that.
>> Um, I I would say though, like I think
if we ever do bring in someone like
that, we probably have a big bias for
like former founders
>> to your point that probably like that
have touched AI
>> and if they're technical,
>> honestly, that might be a requirement.
>> Yeah, I think I think it would be. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I um a great example was what we talked
about in the SUV today. All right. So
the that company that we were thinking
about using, but they're a bit too early
for us right now, I think, to actually
like consider using them in a production
environment where we're like relying on
them for a big part of our product. >> Um,
>> Um,
>> I would actually much prefer to just go
and like aqua hire or hire that team%
>> like I'm a bit upset that they they have
brought about the idea.
>> Everyone has a build.
>> Everyone has a
>> That's what I mean. I feel like instead
of um
>> you know like relying on the software,
you just say to them, "Hey, look,
>> we built a great like a great company.
It's already proven. We have PMF. We
have like a a huge amount of like
success from it. Huge amount of like uh
people using it. People love it. The
>> um like reviews and and stuff like that
is like crazy. Like the best like
experience ever.
>> Yeah. Like we should be figuring out how
we get those kind of guys who are
building that product to just come and
work for us.
>> I mean at the end of day like look you
and I have been on
>> they could own the whole product though,
right? They could own like a whole like
section of it.
>> Run with it. Exactly. You and I have
been on the other side where it's like
>> you're working on your own thing but
it's a struggling thing and every day is
just heavy and you're like how the hell
am I going to like we don't have
employees just like two guys shipping on
a random thing.
>> Yeah. There's just something about
something powerful about joining a
winning team that just like makes
everything, you know, 10 times better.
>> Yes. So, I think I'm I'm I'm all for,
you know, finding
people that have the skills, but they're
just like, you know, maybe stubborn and
still, you know, doing their own thing
and find a way of convincing them to join.
join.
>> Did you expect any of the people that
we've hired to be like what they are
right now? So, for some context,
>> you know what? No. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It was me as well. I genuinely
believe that we we we got to a point
where we like maybe peaked with like
hiring and we were like, "Oh, right. Now
we're normal." Like now we're hiring
normal people who were just applying for
roles on like
>> It felt like that, right?
>> Yeah, it did. It felt like it for a
minute or two, right? When we got like
the new office in in in um in New York,
we like I was like, "Okay, we're just
like putting job posts on LinkedIn. I
have no idea who these people are. Are
they going to be like
>> like dedicated like we are? Are they
going to be the sort of people
>> they're going to have the energy and the
the passion and the commitment and the
care, right, for like little things.
>> I have no idea how we've done it, but
every single like hire that we've made
so far has been like 100% cracked,
>> but they kind of grown into it. Like I
think every single one of them has like
this like one to two week period of like
integration into the team
>> where like they kind of like look what's
going on around them
>> and they they kind of they get the hint
>> and then they they really start
embodying it. I think I think we'll get
to a point where someone like crashes
out because of it though. Like we'll get
to a point where we hire like an account executive.
executive.
>> Oh. And they're like like they're not
about it at all. They thought it was
going to be different.
>> [ __ ] that. Like you know I'm not staying
here until like 9:00 p.m. like everyone else.
else.
>> This like I'm kind of excited.
>> In fact, for like there there's
definitely some people in our team that
that I expected that some of that could
happen. And
>> I've been like very surprised that they
didn't. Dude, I I've actually felt like
every hire we've made in the last like
couple of months would be like
>> like my expectations were like, "Okay,
maybe it's like we're growing up a bit.
Maybe these these these guys will just
kind of be like, "Oh, I'm going to stay
until 6 p.m. I'm going to go home and
make dinner."
>> You know what? I just That would be
okay, though. I think there's somewhat
of this like hypnotic effect of like
>> things are working. The product is good.
You're on a rocket ship. You kind of
feel the energy underneath.
>> It almost changes your belief system.
You remember some people that like
before they joined they were asking a
lot of questions about like work life
balance and whatever and we're like
rolling our eyes were like that's not
that's not how it works.
>> That's not
>> Yeah. You know
>> I mean
>> and it turns out even people like that
ended up kind of fully
>> I wonder if like the
like do are we at the point where we
need like a HR person to come and like
do like evaluations and be like you know
what how do you feel about having a
comp? Cuz I'd be interested. Listen,
listen. I I do walk around asking people
how they feel. So,
>> I mean, yeah. So, do I mean like we're
serving that?
>> Are people going to Are people going to
tell you or if it was like an anonymous
survey, right? Would they be like, you
know what, the work life balance is
crazy. I'm not a fan. Zero out of 10.
>> But here's the other thing like like
here's the hard truth is essentially,
>> do we actually care?
>> No, we don't. But but but the reason we
don't care is because we have a very
clear idea of the kind of company that
we want to build. We know the benefits
that come with doing that and it's only
for a certain kind of people and we are
not here to lead by democracy and just
survey everyone and then be like, "Okay
guys, how much work life balance do you
want? Let's do that."
>> Maybe that's the point of a company when
we just you just know they're not going
to make it and they start sending like
anonymous surveys to like employees.
Actually, you know what? Check on that.
>> You know what? Here's a question for
you. If you look back at your
experience, all the jobs that you've had
and the ones that had had surveys,
>> the worst ones.
>> Worst ones.
>> Yeah. Dead ass. You're the guy that was
on you were featured on Business Insider
Business Insider for um basically saying
>> we saw some things on Twitter that went
viral and then we got featured.
>> But it was because you don't think that
people should work remotely.
>> Correct. Yeah.
>> All right. Why? Give me give me just
like a hot take. Give me a reason why.
Like two reasons.
>> I'm I think what's controversial is I
actually don't think it should be
controversial. Like I think I'm pretty like
like
>> rational about my opinions around it.
And I think part of it stems from the,
you know, if I look back at my career,
like the best times in my life that I've
enjoyed my work the most, that I've that
I've done my best work, that I've
learned the most, that I've made the
most friends, that I've
>> progressed my career, progressed my
skills, um, you know, met great people,
have all been working, you know,
physically at a company, showing up
every day and like doing stuff. I'm a
big fan of culture. So, um, I actually
used to work at Weiwork. I think it was
like 2016ish,
>> by the way. by the way.
>> Yes. Lambo, by the way. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. Great company.
>> Yeah. So,
one thing they did great uh is they just
they just prioritize culture above above
many things and that they just created
this like ecosystem >> profitability
>> profitability
>> like profitability which for record we
are not.
>> Mr. human
>> listen they didn't get they didn't get
the profitability right they didn't get
the business model right but they got
the culture right and I think I think
there's a lot to learn from that that a
lot of people that you know there's a
lot actually a lot of we work alumni
that are doing great things nowadays but
if I look back at like what's the best
culture that I've seen and the big the
best work ethic that I've seen like it
comes during those years
>> so and I've also had the contrast of
like you know you look at what happened
during co where like everyone was forced
to to work remote and it was great for
the first week
>> that by the way I hated that Yeah,
>> I thought was like the suckiest part of
like my career,
>> you know? I I remember but I remember
being very excited the first week. It's
like, you know what, I can work from home.
home.
>> [ __ ] yeah. This is great.
>> Hell yeah. This is going to be amazing.
And and and then you start doing it.
It's awesome.
>> Um and it starts getting a little bit
boring. So, you start looking for like
what else? Over the course of 2 years, I
went from like living my best life
before that to being absolutely just
like dreading every single day. It was
just boring and there was nothing
happening around me. I would literally
play games all day. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like I I I had a job,
>> but like no one was like%
it was just boring. Like
>> my mind is just I have a mind that has
to be like very interested in the thing
that I'm working on at that moment.
>> So if like if it was it was a normal job
by the way. I wasn't a founder. I was
just like an employee. I was probably
the worst employee that you could hire. Like
Like
>> I would be disappointed in myself for
hiring myself at Compi. Done. I'd be
like, "Damn, we have to fire that guy
because he sucks."
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Right. Like I would genuinely
log on like I, you know, I'd be active
on Slack because I was playing games
like on my other screen, you know? But I
was online. People would be like, "Wow,
you're online all the time." Like, "Yes,
I'm active. I'm here doing work like things."
things."
>> But it was like the worst time. It was
just the best times that I had at that
company was when I actually like went to
the office. And it was so rare. And
look, I remember I remember all these
things from Reworks like the happy
hours, the they had this thing called
summer camp that was [ __ ] fantastic.
>> Um, and not just rework, like also other
companies like whenever I've had
experiences of things like that. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> It's it's just it's been the best time
of my life. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I think I think a lot of it is like
I'm very sold on we need to create the
company that prioritizes people, that
prioritize connection, that and I think
everything else falls as a consequence.
Like I don't think I've ever worked as
hard as I'm working right now at comp. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And part of that is like right now it's,
you know, it's 6:00 p.m. on a Friday.
Everyone's still here. They're probably
going to be here until like 8 9 on a
Friday. No one's itching to leave. And
part of it is because we enjoy it so much.
much.
>> You are drinking an old fashioned.
>> We are drinking old fashion and talking
on the podcast.
>> We're still doing work, right? >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Listen, this counts.
>> It does count. It does count. I won't
take that away from you, but it's pretty
great. I mean, if you were a guy, let's
say you are a software engineer for a I
don't know, Salesforce. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You're not sipping you're not sipping an
old fashioned. >> No.
>> No.
>> And you're not on a podcast. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Talking [ __ ]
>> You know, we got to normalize this.
>> I think it was it was probably
normalized and then denormalized for
maybe good reason from like the ' 60s
and the ' 70s.
>> I don't want to throw you in, but you
know, everything works in cycles. I feel
like we're we're coming back.
>> We are We are so back.
>> We're back. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like Mad Man. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> The crack.
>> That was a great show. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I saw like eight episodes.
>> I feel like you haven't seen the whole thing.
thing.
>> No. No.
>> You got some homework.
>> Should I watch it?
>> You got some homework.
>> I watched like six episodes maybe. Bit
of the first season. It was great.
>> Now you're in New York. So I feel like
watching it while being in New York hits different.
different.
>> Would I see our office? Maybe.
>> Maybe. I think you might get inspired
for what we can do in the next office. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> it's a little bit retro.
>> But didn't their office suck?
>> They had like then they had like Yeah, I
was going to say like they had like
women on typewriters and that was it.
Like that's all I remember from that TV
show. Some woman she had the typewriter.
>> No, but he he did have the office and he
had a little couch in his in his
>> Yeah, but that was his personal office.
>> His little privacy. That's the one I'm
talking about.
>> I mean, yes. First of all, I'm all for
that. Thank you,
>> dude. Open space offices suck.
>> Yes and no. I feel like you need you
need you need half and half.
>> All right, hear me out. This might not
be this might be the worst take I've
ever had. I might get cancelled for it. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> but the normies office space like you
know shared like space. Great. But if
you're like the the CEO, COO, CTO,
>> listen, you should have a cracked out
office. You need like um what are they
called? What are the nice couches
called? There's like a a certain brand.
>> Yeah. Whatever. I'm not a couch guy. But
>> you're not a You're not a couch guy.
>> I'm not a couch guy. Sorry.
>> I don't know what to say. That says a
lot about you, honestly.
>> There's a certain brand of couch. It's
really good. I feel like you need one of those.
those.
>> You need like a cigar like air.
>> I completely agree.
>> Like a whiskey.
>> I do think you need separation of
spaces. I I think I think I think open
floors are great because they they
create like it's not claustrophobic.
>> Would a lot of like SAS companies like
agree though? I feel like, see, maybe
we're different. Maybe we are the
different ones in this space because I
feel like a lot of like SAS founders, a
lot of SAS companies would be like, "No,
that's like the wrong way of building a
company." Like you're the founders need
to be like in the room. I actually would
think that the founders need to have
like a cracked out area which is just
for them,
>> right? with like genuinely like a cigar color
color
>> like I want like a like this should just
have like whiskey
>> like oldfashioned on demand cigars like
Cubans want to go and grab one
>> right we have the suits go it goes with
it maybe it's just cuz I'm wearing a suit
suit
>> maybe maybe it's since it's
>> it is Friday
>> it is Friday
>> 6 p.m. My take on that is I I do think
you need you need multiple spaces that
are like cool hangout spots. Some of
them can definitely be and I do think
like separation of concerns is
important. So like having your own space
we can talk about strategy comfortably.
>> You have your engineering engineering
area. You have different areas. I don't
think everything should be like
completely you know if you watch like
ever a picture of like Meta's
headquarters there's like an army of
like you know 2,000 engineers like
sitting back to back to each other.
>> Is it Goldman or JP?
>> The JP Morgan. Yeah. 270 Park.
>> The trading floor.
>> Terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Something like
that I wouldn't do. But I think if you
have separate separate spaces that are
each like they're themed, they're
they're interesting. You got your
leather couches, you you can be working
in your own desk, but then you can also
like step out into a place where it's
just a little bit more inspiring, more
comfortable, more diverse. Like I think
that's great. Um I do think for founders
like there's something about velocity of
information that's important.
>> So there's things that we just can't be
shouting across the room.
>> We tanked the round again.
You you said the wrong thing. God damn it.
it.
>> God damn it. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Is this guy brain dead? Maybe.
>> I mean, I I guess as well there's a lot
of um there's a lot of times in a
company when
>> like co-founders disagree on like
certain angles or certain things like do
you want the team to be like these guys
just [ __ ] all the time?
>> That it'd be distracting right to be
hearing and all that. Which which I
think leads me to another question.
>> By the way, I think bitching is probably
a good thing. Like
>> I want to ask you about that. I want to
ask you about like so I think we have we
have an interesting relationship, right?
Like I think the way that we and look
I've had co-founders before like I I've
I've been doing companies for for a
little while and I think each one of
those relationships has been different
>> and I think what's unique about ours and
I love to kind of also hear from from
your perspective but then also ask you
is that we are not afraid to be like
extremely direct.
>> Yeah. sometimes to like call stuff out
and even tell you like, "You know what,
Louis? I think I think that idea is
stupid." And you tell me the same thing
all the time. It's like, "I think that's
that's that's the dumbest thing you've
ever said, >> right?"
>> right?"
>> And sometimes
>> and and but we never take it personal.
Like there's never been like a day where
I'm like 24 hours later I'm holding a
grudge against you.
>> Speak for yourself.
>> I literally cry.
>> I cry in the shower like a fetal
position. Just like rocking like a
crybaby. Um No, no. I I I wonder I
always like attribute that to the the
culture difference like EU versus US.
>> You think so?
>> I think so. Yeah. Because in the EU
people are very like direct and blunt to
people and I think that's probably
refreshing in the US. Like that's my
take on it anyway. I'm not sure if this
is true, but in in like the EU like I I
work for like Scandinavian companies
where you have like these autistic IT
guys that are just like so blunt and
they're just like [ __ ] you.
Are you stupid? Like it's literally like
Arnold [ __ ] Schwarzenegger is [ __ ]
saying like calling you an idiot. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think that's very common in in the
EU. I'm not sure about the US. I I don't
know. I've never worked here, but um I think
think
>> I'm I'm like I I don't take offense to
it because
>> I I've I've experienced it. I've seen
other people doing it. I I do it myself.
I see other people doing it. Um I think
that's probably uncommon in US companies
or even just like general like US
culture. I think it's I do think there's
a cultural component especially with
with the the sort of like shift towards
being like very politically correct and
like careful about people's feelings.
It's like if you offend someone, god
forbid you offend someone. So like I think
think
>> even meeting someone new, even if it's
your co-founder, you kind of have this
pretense of
>> like this unspoken rule of like you
better not say something that can be
that can cause discomfort in the other person.
person. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's kind of how most companies
operate. Have you I mean I spent a
couple years in Silicon Valley um and
you visited there plenty of times and
and everyone there every time I go I'm
like I feel like I should I shouldn't be honest.
honest.
>> I mean
>> I have to filter myself.
>> You're talking to someone who is from
the UK. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> We don't have freedom of speech there. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Apparently it's what I see on X anyway.
Apparently we don't have freedom of speech.
speech.
>> Uh I think yeah it's it's a big thing.
There's obviously, you know, we live in
a time where people aren't as like
trying to choose the I'm trying to
choose my words here. >> Fourth.
>> Fourth.
>> Yeah. Yeah. People aren't as like uh
forthcoming about certain situations or
>> you just maybe cancel culture has been
cancelled. I think it's probably a thing
that's happened.
>> New slash
>> we are so back.
>> We are so back you know. But you know
what something interesting about that is
>> our choice in starting a company in New
York versus San Francisco.
>> Dude, it's the best place ever. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like where else can you say to your
executive assistant, "Go and get me an
oldfashioned from downstairs?"
>> In the same building in San Francisco. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Are you an alcoholic?
>> Do you need to talk to somebody?
>> Look, the the two years that I spent
there, um I spent four years in the in
the Bay Area. Two years in San
Francisco. And um I don't think I ever
went out for drinks with anyone. It just
wasn't a thing in the culture.
>> Yeah. It's a UK thing as well,
>> by the way.
>> But but it's a very New York thing. Like
happy hour every single Thursday. You
get to you get to know people. You have
which no wonder you have the best sales
people here, so it kind of helps our
case right now. >> Um
>> Um
>> but but that just felt like slowly
suffocating like just being in that
environment where like no one is allowed
to have fun and to be honest and to to
let loose. the first the first job I
ever had um so Nathan if you're watching
this you know big fan this guy that I I
worked for the first ever company like
out of um like high school for me was
this was like an average software
company in like but [ __ ] nowhere in the
UK right um but I had the best time of
my life at that company it wasn't a wei
work like not a single viewer I'm I'm
sure I'm like I'm certain of it would
have known the company name but it was a
a company that was their office was
positioned very well. It was like a
2-minute walk to the closest pub/bar for
Americans, right? Every single week I
was like 19, 18, 19 at the time. So, I
was all for it, right? You get people
who were um I'd say like 50% of the
company would be like, "Let's go to the
pub like every Friday." They would just
be there. You get some some people who
be like, "Nah, it's not for me." Well,
they'd come every now and then and you'd
be like, "Oh [ __ ] this person's like
come out for the for the evening." Um,
but without fail, every Friday there'd
be at least like 10 or 15 people that
are just like, "Let's go for drinks.
Let's have like >> 100%."
>> 100%."
>> Dude, I made so many good friends. I
Well, we have Paul here. Paul works at
Comp, right? And I actually met him at
that first ever company I >> worked
>> worked
>> and we have been like friends since then,
then, >> right?
>> right?
>> I still speak to my manager from that
that company
>> to that same exact point. I think do you
remember us taking out the team like 2 3
weeks ago?
>> M they will never you'll never get that
anywhere else.
>> You'll never get that anywhere else. But
like do you remember the the the almost
like the day after that when we first
came into the office especially for the
new people that had just joined there
was almost this shift of energy where
like all of a sudden they're like I got
to know everyone here. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Almost in a in a relaxed setting in a
more vulnerable setting.
>> Yeah. everything just kind of clicked
and and I know we got to know some
people a little bit more intimately in
terms of like maybe opinions that like
they felt like they still weren't ready
to to kind of be more honest with
>> um so I feel like that just creates like
this cohesion like you don't get if like
everyone's just like uptight like
>> you know with the mask you know like
Mary or colleague that you just don't
care about like you're never going to
have like a good relationship to
actually build something great
>> but if it's like your friend Dgo who you
like you know you go for meal with and
you be like, "You know what? Just talk
[ __ ] the whole time. He's a bit drunk."
>> Yeah. You're more likely to be honest as
well. Yeah. If you're
>> you know exactly what happens, right?
And I think I I wouldn't say you need to
be friends with everyone you work with.
But I would say that you need to have
like a decent relationship with the
people that you
>> It's almost like it's a level of trust.
It's a level of honesty. It's a level of
rapport. It's a level of
>> I don't know. Just
>> you have to you have to like let
everybody know that
>> yes, we're building a business, but they
can have fun at the same time. And like
you don't have to take it like you don't
have to take it serious to the point
that you can't, you know, go for a drink
with like your the CEO and the CEO of
the company on a Friday,
>> right? Like I if someone said something
to me on a on a on a Friday night when
we were having old fashions, you know,
in like the karaoke bar that we took to,
like if they said something that I
didn't like, by the way, I'm never going
to remember on Monday, so get it off
your chest. They'll probably they'll
probably feel better about it.
>> I was so hung over.
>> You're not stressed about it. You you
got it off.
>> Yeah. Yeah, like they got it off their
system. I'm never even going to
remember. And even if I did, I don't
think I would care that much. Like, you
know what? That person talked a bit of
[ __ ] on on the on a night out with like the
the
>> But you know what? It has happened. It
has been quite a few times. As sometimes
we don't remember, but
>> get it off the chest.
>> We also never hold it personal, but it
creates it creates a new line of
communication, a new trust that almost
like you can you can be slightly
controversial. You can you can you can
hurt someone's feelings and that's okay. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean? Like like it
doesn't affect your work performance. As
long as you you do great work
>> and you absolutely crush it,
>> you're going to be okay. you're going to
be you're going to be around for a
really long time. You know, I think some
of the times we we socialize ideas with
each other and some ideas sound great in
paper, some ideas don't. So, what's
what's supposed to happen over time is,
you know, we have some budgets and we
just go and run experiments on our own.
So, one of the things that uh I think
Lewis did was basically he thought it'd
be it'd be great if we allocated some
some some funds and some time to to go
and launch a satirical account.
>> Yes. Um, so the story goes is is this
account that's essentially a European VC
named Henrik Johansson. >> Johansson.
>> Johansson. >> Johansson.
>> Johansson.
>> I say Johansson.
>> Pronunci. I am American. I feel like I
>> Joe Hansen said soccer football. For the
record, it's football. Um, >> yes.
>> yes.
>> I just got cancel. But but listen,
cancellation culture is agree with Trump.
Trump.
>> Is that what you just admitted on live television?
television?
>> The allegations or the allegations? the
allegations founded.
>> Okay. Henrik Johansson. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Uh is this a Scandinavian venture
capitalist again fictional character
whose entire mission in life is to to
regulate more to make companies more bureaucratic
bureaucratic
>> to make compliance great again
>> to to to praise startups for not for how
much revenue they have or how fast they
grow or how great their product is for
how compliant they are.
>> Yes. So it's a satirical account on X
that became widely popular. It's
followed by Mark Andre Palmer Lock
basically mostly tech elite in Silicon Valley.
Valley.
>> Elon Musk literally replied to account
replied to it last week. Um so his
account's like by all means like it's
doing great for us and it's driving a
lot of uh
>> we afforded these suits. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Honestly, I mean I attribute this suit
to Henrik.
>> There you go. Attribution matters. So
yeah, that's great. Yes.
>> Um, so now we're we're faced with, you
know, okay, this is working awesome.
What else can you do with it? And how do
we double down on on this effort? And
that's where uh, you know, our our very
talented, I think, media team is is
starting to brainstorm a couple of, you
know, characters or extensions to to the
to the story line.
>> For the record, can we just go on on the
record with this? I actually thought it
was the stupidest thing ever. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like I actually called the team out,
right? So I I can say that I'm I'm okay
with going into the details. I had I had
an idea for what we could do and then I
basically said to everybody after the
idea had like gone through the like the
the lines with everybody, everyone else
like thought about like what what could
you do? How could you actually make this
happen? And then I see like I saw a
preview of it, right? And I was like
this is not what we talked about. And
actually I think this is stupid. I I I
think it's going to I think it's going
to fail. I think it sucks. I hate the
idea. Maybe not in those words. Didn't
feel that strongly about it. But
essentially, I I I basically was like,
"This sucks."
>> You're opposed. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I was opposed to the situation. I
I didn't think it would work.
>> Two days later, I'm like,
>> we had the funniest funniest piece of content.
content.
>> Crushed it, you know?
>> It's like, first off, founders can be wrong.
wrong.
>> I mean, I was definitely wrong about
this. I was wrong about the soup.
>> But even if you go back to originally
Henrik Johansson's idea, it's something
that if you would have socialized with
me and asked me like, "Hey, do you think
it's good to to create this character in
the first place?" I think I would have
said like, "I think this is stupid." and
let's not do it.
>> And you ran with it and then it it
became something great, right? So, I
mean, same thing happened right now as
we start expanding the characters. It's
like this new character didn't feel like
it was going to be a good idea and then
it finally manifested. I mean, I won't
take credit. That was actually the team
just kind of fully driving the the the
creative there. Um, but yeah, I guess
it's really hard to predict what's going
to what's going to hit, what's not going
to hit.
>> Yeah, I think you almost can't predict.
I think like there's no way you can be
like if you if you were 100% every time,
then you would be like the richest
person in the world. 100%. But yeah, I
mean part of the secret and we had this
discussion. It's like, okay, given that
we're really bad at predicting
>> is clearly I would have gotten it wrong
and you got it wrong this time. Makes
sense. Um, what do you do? What's a
better formula? And part of it is just like
like
>> spin the wheel.
>> You just got to
>> prediction markets for ideas.
>> Yeah. Even prediction markets get go
wrong. Like you sometimes have bets are
90% and they completely flop because cuz
randomness, right? Uh but I think it's
more about
>> I have a prediction market right now.
Will I actually get another oldfashioned
>> tonight? My head says, my heart says yes.
yes.
>> Listen, if you're if you're tuning into
this, place your bets.
>> Like, will it happen?
>> Polls close in 2 minutes.
>> Yes. Double or nothing. That's all I
have to say.
>> I'm not sure.
>> Yes. Um, so I think part part of the
formula for uh that I think we we
settled on is like we just got to try
more things. And part of trying more
things is we got to cut down cycle time.
If you make it really cheap and really
fast to try stuff, then we don't have to
argue. Let's try both things. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> let's just do stuff and then whatever
actually turns out to perform better.
It's datadriven. I mean, there's nothing
revolutionary here, but I think part of
it is just like the mindset of you got
to reduce cost, increase iteration speed
that enables you to experiment.
>> What do people say? It's not about like
the um if you swing the bat enough
times, you're going to hit the wall,
right? You're going to hit something.
You're going to get a home run shots on
goal, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Um,
>> yeah, we're football guys, but the the
one played with your feet.
>> If Messi has like x amount of penalties,
he's going to love them.
>> If you keep crossing into the box. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. At some point,
>> I mean,
>> something's going to happen.
>> Something will happen. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> At some point. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> In the world. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Great business insight.
>> I'm not sure what we would have been
able to do without that. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. So, listen, media, I think I'm
super excited for some of this new stuff
coming down the pipeline. Um, I think by
the time this goes out to the internet,
we'll already have some of that out. Um,
and that's just the beginning. I think
it's it's it's there's no way it doesn't
perform well.
>> I guess one last question from me, Chloe
Johansson, is she actually a baddie or
not in your opinion?
>> I guess we'll find out. I guess we'll
let the people decide.
I think I need your opinion on camera on record.
record.
>> My opinion is that the voice of the
people is the ultimate truth.
>> Flip a coin.
>> Flip a coin. 50/50.
>> Spin the wheel. >> All right.
>> All right.
>> All right.
>> I don't know what we're calling this
podcast, but uh this is it.
>> Vibe talking.
>> Vive talking.
>> That's it.
>> All right. Cheers,
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