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How to Make Your Brand So Magnetic They Stop Scrolling ft. Erica Mallett

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Core Theme

The core theme of this content is that building a magnetic personal brand and achieving lasting success in content creation hinges on cultivating a deep sense of belonging for your audience, driven by authenticity, clear identity, and unique belief systems, rather than solely chasing attention.

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All good marketing, all good branding is

just about getting people to feel like

they belong.

>> Meet Erica Mallet, the brand strategist

that helps you become a category of one

using the science and psychology of icons.

icons.

>> Your job as a creator is to find a

thousand different ways to say the same

nine things. You are just communicating

your beliefs over and over again. And

that is literally what building a brand

is about. In this episode, Erica breaks

down why connection beats attention, how

to build a belief-based brand that

people actually rally behind, and why

copying others is the quickest way to

kill your magnetism before it even starts.

starts.

>> I don't think attention is the biggest

asset anymore. It is connection. All of

this AI slop on our feeds can get

attention. But how to connect with

someone is a lost art. Erica breaks down

the timeless principles behind how icons

are able to build cultlike audiences and

the simple repeatable frameworks you can

use to create the same magnetic pole

around your brand.

>> Different is so much better than better.

Better doesn't stand out. We expect

everything to be better. We don't expect different.

different.

>> This episode will completely rewire how

you think about building your own

personal brand. So get a pen and paper

out and let's lock in.

>> Erica, what makes a personal brand truly

magnetic? What can make someone stop

their scroll and say, "I need to watch

this video. I need to seek out this information."

information."

>> Braden, it is a big question and it is

the million-dollar question. And I would

say there's a number of things that I

want to dive into answering that

question, but I'll give you the overall

answer first. And that is they have a

clear identity that has been defined

within an inch of its life. And that

identity is being brought clearly into

their brand expression. So the identity

that they're communicating is the

identity that is true to them. That's

what I'll start by saying

>> on our pre-show call you get or you told

me that you've become super clear on

what your personal brand is. And so I'd

love for you to explain that to us and

for our listeners of like there's a lot

of people who talk about building a

personal brand. You're helping people

find what it is is their thing and

helping them define personal brand. So,

how do you define your personal brand

and how have you been able to separate

yourself from the competition and make

your personal brand magnetic?

>> It has taken me a lot of time and a lot

of research, but I'd say what I have

eventually gotten to is as I told you

complete clarity. I I'm in a space now

that I don't feel like I am competing

with anyone. And that is the feeling

that I want people to have because it is

a truly freeing freeing feeling. I had a

client um explain it to me once as he

said he feels like he was in bumper to

pump bumper traffic before and now he's

found the open lane that he can speed

right into and get ahead. And that is

exactly how it feels. So the way that

I've come to that is I'm someone who has

always been obsessed with

self-development. And I think people who

are predisposed

to be obsessed with self-development are

those who are you know eventually going

to get to this clarity with a bit of

help. What I have done is I have made a

bunch of frameworks which help me

clarify my unique difference in the

market. Understand my skill stack. So

how all of my experience is stacked

together and then clearly communicate

that. So my through line I call it is

helping you become a category of one

using the science and psychology of

icons. And essentially I break down

iconic things. I look at their

strategies and then I develop them into

tiny little bite-sized takeaways for

people to apply to their own brands. So

one line has taken me about 10 years to

get to. But it doesn't have to take

everyone else that long. It just took me

that long.

>> Wow. That is so interesting. and I feel

like I'm right there with you where it

totally has taken me a decade to at

least feel like I'm kind of heading in

the right direction. What did it start

as in the very early days? Cuz I know

like you look at your YouTube now, the

thumbnails are amazing, the video

content's great. What did those early

days kind of look like for you as you

were, you know, finding your voice and

finding kind of who you wanted to be on

social media and who you wanted to help?

>> So, I started back in the day as a

musician. I was actually a rapper,

believe it or not. And I toured the

country here in Australia, uh, doing

festivals and shows and things like

that. And back then, I just didn't

really think much about my brand. I just

thought about what I creatively enjoyed.

And that was uh, writing what I felt and

communicating it in a way that felt like

interesting to people. And I look back

and I guess that insight is what has

eventually taken me to where I am now. I

think my evolution as a person has gone

from just doing stuff that I find fun

and that I find creative and trying to

make people laugh, I think has been the

biggest theme out of my whole career and

then eventually bringing that into

content where I was just really doing

skits. I was on TikTok for about a year

just doing funny little skits and takes

and things like that and that evolved to

realizing that through the clarity that

I had found and the voice that I had

found then I could help people do the

same. Um because when I was in radio, I

was a national radio host here in

Australia. Um I didn't have that clarity

and I floundered a lot. you know, I I

got people calling me cringe when I was

speaking on air and saying that, you

know, I was hard to listen to. And to be

fair, maybe I was back then. Um, so I

didn't have my voice then. I found it.

And now the clarity that comes with

finding your voice and the freedom that

comes with that, that's what I developed

in the end to get to where I am now.

>> Do you have any specific frameworks to

help people get clarity? Maybe someone's

listening to this and they also feel

like they're in bumper-to-bumper traffic

and they're looking to gain clarity on

their personal brand. What are some of

those frameworks or questions they can

ask themselves to gain clarity?

>> Yeah, I love this question and the first

part of this framework is really simple

and that is to develop a beliefbased

brand strategy. And what I mean by that

is build a brand that is based on your

perspective and the way that you see the

world, your experiences of the world,

rather than looking externally and

trying to copy people. And what this

does is really, if you spend long enough

in the industry that I've spent long

enough in, you realize that all good

marketing, all good branding is just

about getting people to feel like they

belong. And if you build a brand based

on beliefs, what this does is makes

people relate to your beliefs. You find

your your people and they feel like they

belong with you. So really, especially

moving forward with, you know, the age

of AI and I think a lot of things a lot

of things are losing their perspective.

If you can build a belief-based content

strategy and brand strategy, you're far

ahead of 99% of people. So how do you

actually do that? First, you sit down

and you nut out your themes, your brand

themes. Now, I want to ask you guys,

have you thought much about your brand

themes? I know I can go deeper into

actually what that is, but

>> I think we've thought about our brand

themes for sure for the pod itself. I

mean, the pod has changed a lot, right?

Like we originally started this and it

was like cameras only and like after 50

episodes, we're like, man, how much

camera tips can we give? like we've kind

of given them all, you know, and we were

also, I feel like, growing as people. I

was starting a company and I'm like, you

know, this just doesn't make sense, I

feel like, for the longevity of this

show. And now it's kind of turned into

this, you know, the center of creativity

and business. So, having people on like

yourself that are well-rounded and, you

know, in the sphere of YouTube and

personal brand and people that are using

social for their business, whether

they're a real estate agent, whether

they have a production company, you

know, whatever that thing may be. And so

I think for the pod I feel very aligned

and for the personal brand side of

things I think it's a lot of like just

the behind the scenes of like building a

business and this podcast at the same

time. Uh as well as like the things that

I enjoy in my life. So like fitness, I

love plants. I love coral reefs like I

was telling you in the beginning of this

episode. And I think those are like the

differentiating factors because there's

a million people that talk about

business. So trying to find those little

tiny details that are like, "Oh, this is

what makes me me, and this is what kind

of separates me from the other millions

of gurus online, they're like, "Oh, I'm

starting this business, it's made a

million dollars." Well, there's a ton of

people that have done that, you know,

and it's like it's not really that

interesting. And so I think that we have

tried our best to do that. And I think

we're getting better at it every day.

But I'll let you talk about it, Coast.

>> I would say for me personally, I'm

actually, it's interesting because I'm

going through a little bit of a revamp

for my own personal brand. I think a lot

of it was very focused on photo video

stuff and I'm transitioning a little bit

more into I would say lifestyle creator

mixed with you know teaching people

about building a personal brand

themselves and also just like

documenting my journey. I've started to

bring a lot more of my fitness lifestyle

into my content but I'm positioning it

in a way of like I'm not a fitness

influencer. Like don't come to me for

fitness tips. I

>> We know that. We know that.

Don't come to me for fitness tips, but

like I want to live a motivational and

inspiring lifestyle, but having the

vulnerability to like let people know

that I don't have it all figured out and

almost using my content to keep me on

track and as an accountability partner

to like build my personal brand, build

the podcast, um, and bring people along

the way with like through that journey.

>> Oh, I love that. Okay. Well, this sounds

like you're in a good place. Maybe we

should do like a little dummy run

through of this um work and see what

happens. Let's do it. Let's do it.

>> So, the first step here is we're going

to choose three themes. So, when I say

themes, what I mean is these big

recurring ideas that you play with as a

person, as a brand. So, some examples

are J Shetty would be spirituality, um,

emotional intelligence and purpose.

Someone like Mr. Beast would be

spectacle, generosity, and mastery. Uh,

mine are creativity, influence, and

unique self-expression. So these can be traditional

traditional

quote unquote niche categories like

business or finance or they can be more

emotional themes like freedom,

brotherhood, experimentation. So off the

top of your head, can you choose three?

And the test is, do you feel really

passionate about these themes? And could

you talk about them for five years?

>> Oo, that's really good. Okay, so once we

choose our three themes, we have those

picked out. Let's just pretend they're

creativity, uh, fitness, and business.

Let's just let's just use those three.

Then what happens next? If I'm trying

to, you know, actually go out and make

consistent content, what does that look like?

like?

>> So, the next step is you choose three

beliefs under each of those themes. So,

the interesting thing here is that one

brand that has business as one of their

themes has a completely different

feeling to another brand that has

business as one of their themes. For example,

example,

uh Gary Vee, I would say that one of his

themes is business, right? But he

believes about business that it's a

lifelong pursuit and slow growth is the

only way. Whereas someone like Alex

Hamozi, he believes that you should

grind hard, win fast, hustle hard. I

think he said one time that men under 30

should have mandatory 12-hour work days.

So his beliefs about business are very

different to Gary Ve's beliefs about

business. So let's choose creativity.

What are your three beliefs about

creativity that guide you through the

world as a person?

>> My three beliefs about creativity. I

think that anyone can be creative. I

think that creativity is a muscle,

something that you need to like work out

every single day. I think you can lose

it very quickly if you're not

consistently doing it. And my third one

about creativity,

I'm trying to think. I think to be a

good creative, you have to be down to be

like messy and not be like great at it.

And I think that a lot of people like

get into I I'm like a perfectionist. I

want to be really good at the things I

do. And this was one of those things

that took so freaking long, but you

would see every time you would do it,

you would get like a little bit better.

And I feel like with most things, it's

kind of hard to see like consistent

growth, but I feel like as a creative,

every time I'd get in the laptop or get

behind the camera, I'm like, I'm getting

a little bit better. Like I'm not good,

but I'm still getting like a little bit

better. So those would be three beliefs

that I can think of off the top of my head.

head.

>> Okay, that's excellent. So what you do

is you take each of your themes and

you'd write three beliefs under each of

those themes. So nine beliefs in total.

And these beliefs should inform your

entire content and brand strategy. And

what I mean by that is that you are just

really your job as a creator is to find

a thousand different ways to say the

same nine things. You are just

communicating your beliefs over and over

again. And that is literally what

building a brand is about. Now there's

some nuance to how to actually

communicate those beliefs and make it

very watchable. But really that is the

basis of how you differentiate yourself

because your beliefs about creativity

are completely different to someone

else's beliefs about creativity. Your

job is to just convey them in different ways.

ways.

>> That's so interesting that you say that

because I feel like when I was in

college and once I graduated and joined

the workforce, I'm working. I remember

seeing like the same, you know, five

viral Gary Vee videos that he would post

and it'd be like, you know, the one

where someone's like, "I don't matter."

And he's like, "You do matter." Like

those I I can I can I mean, I can

remember them like they they've stuck

with me, these like viral moments that

he's had cuz they repost them and they

haven't really changed his thoughts or

his perceptions on that topic. So, it's

so interesting that you say that because

I think that something that Costas, I

all of our community struggles with a

lot is, you know, you say your your five

things or you say your six things and

you're like, well, you know, it's it's

Saturday and we have a whole year ahead

of us and I'm trying to think of like

what to post. I feel like that is such

an interesting thing. When you go about

redoing a piece of content, what do you

think about when you're like remaking

something or just saying it maybe in a

little bit of a different way? because I

think a lot of people get stuck with

that and it's something that I think I

think both of us have gotten stuck with

at some point for sure. Hope you're

enjoying this episode. Real quick, I

want to let you know about an awesome

free product that we got linked in the

description. It's our personal brand

kickstart. What's in it?

>> Okay, we got five prompts for you. It's

going to help you define your personal

brand, get clarity, and start posting

content that really resonates with your audience.

audience.

>> It'll literally take you less than 10

minutes and it's been super apparent

with all the guests that we've had on

our show. They have really strong

personal brands and it's allowed them to

scale their businesses. So, go check it

out. Top link. Let's keep it rolling.

>> Yeah, I love what you said there cuz

you're right. Gary Vee has been saying

the same thing for years and years and

years, just the same few things. And

that I mean he's a genius at it. I think

the the real art is as you said um not

getting sick of saying the same thing.

And I call this hiding the vegetables in

the cake. So you have your belief,

right? You've written down your nine

core beliefs, the things that guide you

through the world. Now, your job is to

communicate those in a way that your

audience actually cares about. Because a

lot of people just stop at going, "Oh, I

have a belief and I have a perspective.

I'm just going to say that the way that

I think is interesting." But that's not

what communication and content creation

is about. It's about understanding your

audience to the extent that you can

communicate it in a way that they

actually care about. So, let me give you

an example of what I mean when I say

building a brand is about finding a

thousand different ways to say the same

things rather than a thousand different

things. Uh, one of my beliefs is that

everyone has the ability to find their

own unique voice. So when I am trying to

find ways to communicate that belief,

what I call the vegetable, I'm going to

look out into the world and try and see

what is out there that is either

agreeing with this belief, disagreeing

with this belief, or referencing this

belief in any way. So then I go, okay,

great. What if I look at people who have

a very clear artistic voice? Like what

about artists who found their unique

self-expression? What about musicians

who feel completely unique? Can I do

case studies? What about I like to think

of this as topical or universal themes?

Are the cakes? So, we're looking out

there. We're going, what are the

universal themes that people are feeling

when thinking about their unique voice?

What are the frustrations about it? How

can I package it in a way that is cake,

aka delicious, for people to interpret

and eat up?

>> I love that. Okay, so we got the themes,

we got the vegetable in the cake. People

are writing this down and they're like,

"Okay, I got clarity on who I want to

be, how I'm going to show up online, but

they're worried about, and you brought

it up, they're worried about maybe being

a little cringe and they're worried

about how people are going to perceive

them online." And you talk about getting

over this uh the cringe mountain. And so

I want to talk about how cringe mountain

plays a part into building a personal

brand and how to get over cringe

mountain. Brandon and I have both been

creating content for the past decade.

And it's funny because I look back at

some of the old stuff that I try like

tried to post on YouTube. I'm like, man,

that was really cringe. Like I wouldn't

have watched myself back in the day. But

I was trying and I was still like

showing up. But I also wasn't like I

didn't do any of this, you know,

personal brand inner work trying to

figure out what my themes were and all

that kind of stuff. So long-winded way

of saying how can someone overcome

cringe mountain and bring what they

write down creating their themes and

what their personal brand is like how

can they bring that to life um and feel

more comfortable online?

>> Yeah, I love that you brought this up.

And if you're not looking back and

cringing at your old work, you're doing

it wrong. you're not you're not

developing enough or trying hard enough,

I would say. So, that's good. You should

be cringing at your old work. And look,

what I will say to that is everyone who

is now cool or good at something has had

to climb a cringe mountain. And I think

we need to normalize this because people

think that they should be good at

something from the jump. Especially

like, not to name names, but Gen Z. I

feel like they think that they should be

perfect straight away. I don't know why,

but of course you're not going to be

good at it. You just started doing it,

you know? So, I think the first thing is

just normalizing the fact that it should

feel cringe and people should think

you're cringe. But once you can embrace

that, there's a real power to that. So,

that's the first thing. And then two

little ways that I like to think about

this and two things I like to remind

myself of is number one, it gets to be

this easy. And what I mean by that is

that as a creative and a perfectionist,

you can make things really hard for

yourself if you want to. You can go,

"Okay, I really want to start a YouTube

channel, but I need a good camera. I

need the right lighting. I need to be

fully made up. I need my hair done. I

need a microphone. I need X, Y, and Z."

This particular group of people,

creative perfectionists, are very good

at procrastinating. And this is what I

call being at the base camp of cringe

mountain. You may not realize that's

where you are, but really what you're

doing is you're stopping yourself from

starting the climb because it's scary

starting the climb. So, the first thing

is it gets to be this easy. Meaning that

it's as hard or as easy as you let it

be. If you go, I'd like to start a

YouTube channel. You could literally

pick up your phone and start one today.

Great. It's easy. So, that's the first

thing into starting climbing cringe

mountain. The second thing is that it's

all just practice. And this is something

I tell myself probably every day. Uh

this took a lot of pressure off me as a

perfectionist. If I see everything I do

as just practice, suddenly I don't care

about it as much anymore. And I really

encourage people to look at it like that

as well. Like I know it feels like a big

scary thing, you know, starting posting

and putting yourself out there, but it's

all just practice. It doesn't matter.

Nothing is set in stone. It's like white

water rapids. You put something out

there, it disappears really quickly. You

put something out there, it disappears

really quickly. And you can get sad

about that being the nature of the

internet, but you can also be empowered

by that. It's all just practice. And

this thing just builds on the next thing.

thing.

>> I love that because I I don't know. I

think a lot of people, myself included,

the hardest part about making content

was the thought of being sent to group

chats. And I don't know if that's like a

if that's just like an I mean I'm

assuming maybe it's a thing in

Australia, but in America like I was so

prepared. I was like if I make this

workout video I'm going to get blasted.

Like I'm getting blasted in every

[ __ ] group chat. I'm going to get

roasted. They're going to say I'm such a

dork and I'm cringe. And it and it was

super cringe. Like to Kostas' point like

we both giggle back at you know I was

making fitness YouTube videos as a

college student as a freshman. Like

that's just easy pickings to like bully

somebody. Like I get it. And like I

don't know. I mean it that [ __ ] hurt.

Like I remember I remember there was

like a it was like an app called Yik Yak

and it was anonymous and someone had

posted one of our videos on there and it

had like a [ __ ] hundred comments and

it was just like just getting ripped

into. I'm like man this is so brutal.

Like do I do I let them win or do I keep

going? And I'm really glad that I kept

going. But I'm curious what your

thoughts were when you were like a news

anchor and you're seeing, you know,

people can say whatever they want right

now. You know, there's no consequence

and someone has like zero subscribers,

zero profile picture, and they can just

say the craziest rude [ __ ] How did you

kind of overcome that? What is your

advice to people that you've spoken to

uh with just overcoming comments, maybe

being sent in the group chat, that whole

situation? I really relate to what you

just said. It's a thousand% something

that a lot of people think of. And the

first thing I'll say is that I like to

think of where haters are on Cringe

Mountain. People who are hating are

never climbing cringe mountain. They're

always the ones at base camp because no

one who has climbed the mountain would

ever laugh at you for climbing the

mountain. Um, so that's the first thing.

And the second thing I'll say is that

looking back on my time in radio, yes,

it was brutal. Like I would be on air

and the text line is like an immediate

like you get the messages immediately

and there's no filter. I'd be on air

like literally talking on live radio and

someone would send a message being like

[ __ ] off your cringe. Be like [ __ ] Like

so it's like someone interrupts your

conversation to tell you how [ __ ] you

are. And um I think what this did to me,

like at the time it was painful, but I

look back now and I feel like I have a

superpower because I was exposed to such

a large volume of people's opinions

about me in such a short amount of time.

And I called this cringe exposure

therapy um colloqually. And what this

has done is that now I don't care if you

think I'm cringe. like great, maybe I

am, but that's not a problem. Cringe is

a sign that I'm growing and I'm learning

and I'm trying to be better and that's

actually something that I'm proud of.

So, that's why I'm such an advocate of

content creation because I think that

content creation is the fastest way to

expose yourself to the opinions of the

many. Like, if you post long enough, you

will go viral and you will get exposed

to haters. And that exposure to people's

opinions of you is so crucial in your

career as a public figure, as a

creative, because no one is not going to

get haters. Like there'll be a video of

a cat drinking milk from a bowl and

someone's like, "Stupid cat. Hate this

cat." Like, why?

>> No one.

>> Yeah. No one is safe. So, you just have

to get used to it. And I think content

creation is such an incredible

self-development tool. It doesn't give

you the uh it doesn't you don't get it

doesn't get the credit that it deserves

for being a self-development tool.

>> Two things about this topic.

>> I was on a YouTube I was on two YouTube

shows when I was in high school. One was

called Teens React and the other was

called Summer Break. One of them was

like a reality show. Summer Break was a

little bit more cringe than uh than

Teens React. But I got chirped a lot in

high school for like being on this show.

And looking back, I had some pretty

thick skin because I remember just

telling myself, man, if these people got

the opportunity to be on the show, like

they would take it themselves. So, it's

like them chirping me is just in a way a

form of jealousy. And I think with

people like you said that are chirping

people who are stuck at, you know, base

camp or trying to climb cringe mountain,

it's like these people don't have the

balls to go after it themselves. So,

it's easier for them to hate on you for

doing something and trying. I There's a

great ASAP Rocky interview where he

goes, "When did it become uncool to

try?" And I I love that cuz it's like

you're never going to be hated on for

someone who's

uh who's like do who's like gone through

what you've gone through or like doing

better than you. You're always getting

hated on and chirped at for from people

who are like wishing they were doing

what you were doing or aren't doing it.

So, that's one thing. And the other

thing I watched um do you know who Dan

Martell is?

>> No, I don't think so.

>> He's um he's been very successful in

business, but he kind of went all in on

his personal brand and he's been blowing

up recently, but he did an interview, I

believe it was with Chris Do recently

and he talked to Alex Hermoszi, like

they had a dinner and it kind of opened

his eyes. He was like, "Alex, why are

you doing this? Like, why should I go

all in on personal brand?" and he came

to the realization that everything on

his vision board that he wanted was

behind him putting out content. Like

everything that he wanted on his vision

board was behind reach and building a

personal brand for himself. And so when

he had that mindset or that that clarity

of like I everything I want in life is

behind me building this personal brand

like I'm going to go all I'm going to go

all in. Who cares if I'm cringe? And I

think if people also have that

mentality, that's also something that's

been keeping me going recently of like

everything that I say I want, my dream

life is behind me building a personal

brand and staying consistent with

content and making it a priority.

There's so many times where I've made

excuses for myself of like ah like I

have this other thing to do or I don't

have anything to talk about. Like I

don't know what I should make content

about. [ __ ] that. Like if I really want

to achieve everything I want to achieve

and like get my dream life, all of that

is behind me being cringe on the

internet, taking my camera to the

[ __ ] gym because I'm getting chirped

right now for taking my camera, big ass

tripod, my FX3. Like, I got the whole

setup and people are tripping me. I'm

like, I don't give a [ __ ] because I'm

I'm blowing this thing up. So, yeah.

>> Damn right. I mean, I think as someone

who works in this space, I'm probably a

bit biased, but I can't understand why

people wouldn't realize that that's the

the way of the future, you know, like

it's only clearer to me as the days go

on and there are layoffs of massive

companies and AI workforces. And not to

sound alarmist or anything, but I really

do think there's a premium on

perspective and taste. And that is what

building a personal brand is about. And

if you want to live a life that is

extraordinary and interesting and

fulfilling and purposeful, I really

can't imagine why you wouldn't want to

delve a little deeper into your identity

and understand how to communicate that.

And yeah, you're spot on about um the

haters who hate from the base camp of

Cringe Mountain. Doesn't matter. What

are your thoughts in the next 6 to 12

months with all of this AI content

popping onto our feeds with Sora

becoming a thing and with, you know, these

these

>> videos are crazy?

>> These Oh, yeah. These Sora feeds popping

up. Do you feel like we're going to see

a shrinkage of brand deals and more of

an expansion of like a creator business

where it's like, you know, I'm going to

Erica because she's going to teach me

about XY or like this is her thing or

I'm going to go to Coast and Braden

because they know a lot about this like

and I want to learn from these people,

not from, you know, I don't know what

other, you know, like if you you can ask

chat GBT, but it doesn't doesn't help

you if you don't know what to even ask

it, right? What do you feel like that's

going to look like in the next 6 to 12

months from creative people monetizing

online or someone trying to monetize

what they know online? Do you think

that's going to switch up? Do you think

it's going to stay the same? I'm just

curious what your thoughts are on the

kind of the forecast.

>> I think that content that is

purelyformational and educational,

it will be hard for creators who make

that kind of content to continue

monetizing in the way that they have

because that's what AI tools do really

well, right? They take the knowledge

that is out there and the dots that have

been connected already and then they

deliver that in a way that is

interesting. So people in that category

I think will have trouble in the next 6

to 12 months. But I think that people

who can differentiate and also really

drill down on the emotion that their

brand represents and how they make

people feel. Those are the creators that

are going to be I think onwards and

upwards from here because that is the

thing that is hard for AI to replicate

at the moment anyway. I'll never say

never but at the moment if you have a

crystal clear differentiation and

understanding of your unique skill set

of your tone of voice of how you make

people feel that's something that can't

at this stage be replicated. you brought

up in one of your YouTube videos that

you feel like we're moving away from the

attention economy and we're moving more

into the uh connection economy. Can you

break that down for our audience and

like what that actually means in practice?

practice?

>> Yeah, 100%. So, I'm a big fan of Gary

Vee obviously, but I think he wrote a

book called Day Trading Attention and I

love the guy, but I think it's a sign of

how quickly the last few years have

moved because I don't think attention is

the biggest asset anymore. It is

connection. And what I mean is that all

of this AI slop on our feeds can get

attention. It understands like people

making these things understand how to

grab someone. But how to connect with

someone is a lost art. And I can run you

through some strategies of what I mean

in terms of connecting with people

rather than just getting their attention

if you like.

>> Okay. So what you could call this is

like I've seen this term like dark

psychology branding tactics online which

I guess you could you could say that's

what this is but really getting people's

connection rather than their attention

is a about building a beliefbased brand

and a belief based content strategy

which I've taken you through but b uh

one strategy that I really love is

called the enemy effect which is uniting

your audience against an ideological

enemy. And what this does is it creates

an in-group and an out groupoup. It

again it speaks to belonging. If you can

make people feel like it's us versus

them. I know this sounds very negative,

but it isn't only used in negative ways.

For example, someone who does use it, I

guess uh in negative ways is like Andrew

Tate. He speaks about the matrix. Um

that's his enemy. So he says it's us

verse the matrix and we have to do x y

and z. That's an example of from my

perspective Andrew Tate using it in a

negative way, but a positive way could

be someone like Taylor Swift. Her enemy

is the cool girl. And you know, this

speaks to the feeling of being left out

and otherred. And anyone who feels like

they've never been in the cool group,

this unites those people together and

makes them feel like they have a place

to finally belong. So, the first one is

the enemy effect. It is crazily

effective at make making people connect

with you. If you can explain to them

that it's us versus the enemy, then

that's a connection straight away. So

that's strategy number one.

>> Can you give um like a specific example

of how someone could bring the enemy

effect if they aren't Taylor Swift or

Andrew Tate? take, I don't know, maybe a

gardener who wants to make gardening

content or um I guess like a like when I

think of maybe somebody making fitness

content, maybe the enemy is, you know,

eating unhealthy and not living a

healthy lifestyle. But take can we take

maybe some more like nuanced um niches

maybe and give some examples for how

they can bring in the the enemy effect?

>> Yeah, absolutely. Why don't you maybe

name a niche and I'll see if I can find

an enemy that would be interesting and nuanced.

nuanced.

>> I like the gardening one.

Okay, gardening. So, you could choose

bugs as your enemy. Uh, you know, these

little critters that get around in your

garden and your whole brand is about

trying to build an organic garden that

is free of bugs. Or your enemy could be

these big corporation gardening stores

because they have uh products imported

from China. None of them are

handcrafted. None of them are made with

any intention. So your enemy is, you

know, the big corporations or an enemy

could be um, you know, wintertime and

the whole brand is around how to garden

in winter because that is the tension.

How do we keep growing vegetables and

eat throughout winter? So you can see

that it's it really can be anything, but

it speaks a lot to who you're going to

attract and the kind of brand and

content you're making as a result. God,

Erica, I love this game. This is like

it's so eyeopening. And going back to

your point about kind of having an

enemy. I think that that's that's been

used by all of our like our NFL teams,

our NBA teams, like all of these large

uh these large scale teams. It's like

you go into arena when I was working for

the Lakers and I went to Boston. I

remember walking through the gates and I

remember the team on the bus was like,

"It's your first time in Boston." Like

the people I worked with, I'm like,

"Yeah, I'm really excited to see the

arena." It's like the garden. It's like

very famous, very excited. And they're

like, "Oh, no. It's not going to be fun.

It's going to suck." And I'm like, "Why

is it going to suck?" Like, you know,

it's the garden. I feel like this is

going to be like a great time. Like, no,

no, this arena is unlike anything you've

ever experienced on the road. And I'm

like, how bad could it be? Cuz you go to

all these arenas in the Midwest. People

are pretty nice. They're like, "Oh,

what's up? You're with the Lakers. Like,

welcome to town." Like I remember

walking out of the thing and there was

like a really young kid maybe 10 or 11

years old and it's just like double

birds right as you walk out the door and

I was like holy [ __ ] we're here and you

actually do hear I remember walking on

the concourse like [ __ ] you like go back

to LA and like like you're saying it's

like you know they've kind of built up

these rivalries you know against one

another and it's like a tribal thing of

like we're with this team you're not

here you're not from this part of town

We're from Boston. We grew up. We're

tough. You know, this is like who we

are. And I I think that it's so

interesting to kind of bring someone's

personality into their content because

that is something that would make

someone totally be into another person

be like, "Oh, well, they came from a

place like I came from or they came from

like a not like, you know, silver

platter upbringing. They came from a

more difficult upbringing. That's why I

relate to them." So, I I don't have a

question there. Just more of a a

statement with what you were saying.

>> 100%. It's all about the tension. Again,

back to the psychology of it. It's how

we're wired. We are wired for tension.

That's why every good story starts with

conflict. Every good TV show starts with

conflict. Like, you'll never find a book

that starts where the characters not in

a place of conflict in the beginning.

It's just the way that it works. So, if

you can become an expert at finding the

tension and then explaining that to

people, that is one way that they will

connect with you. I can guarantee it.

>> Yeah. You almost like uh when I think of

an enemy,

I think of just like a single person,

but it's almost like an ideology that

you're against.

>> It goes as it's kind of it's kind of

like when we were starting the pod when

we were so focused on cameras. I mean,

our running joke was like [ __ ] on

the Nikon brand. Like that was like a

running joke, right? And like I remember

meeting people and even this last

weekend we were in we were in Charlotte

and one of the gals that was helping us

out his like a long-term listener to the

pod and we met someone out in public. I

would never say this to someone's face

cuz I don't really like it doesn't

really matter. It's just more of like a

funny bit. But he's like, "Yeah, I use a

Nikon." And she looked at me and I was

like, "Don't say anything right now,

bro. Like you're going to make me

laugh." And this random dude be like,

"What's so funny about my camera?" Like

nothing. Nothing. But it's like, yeah,

we were just jokingly hating on this

brand and a lot of people were, you

know, were in on it in like the camera

world. It was like a funny thing to like

hate on Nikon. Still is funny to hate on

Nikon. Nikon still sucks. But, you know,

it was like that's a perfect example of

like what you're saying. And it has

nothing to do with like, you know, a

person, you know.

>> No, it's not. Yeah. And I I think that's

so good to clarify that when I say the

enemy, I think people do think person,

but that's not what this is about. It's

about an ideology. It's about a concept.

It's about something out there that is

bigger than you. And in by way of

choosing something that's bigger than

you, you also get to be the underdog,

which is another way that you connect to

audiences is be the underdog and have

them rooting for you. So yes, I think

that when used um it depends who uses

this. It can be used for good, it can be

used for evil. It is a very powerful

strategy and I'll give it to the people

because I think that this is what the

big brands and the biggest politicians

are using and I think that more creators

who are good-hearted and good intention

should be using the enemy effect for good.

good.

>> From watching your stuff too, like I've

been looking I've watched every single

video on your YouTube channel, but from

from that moment of watching all your

stuff, I'm looking at everyone's like

thumbnails and titles a little bit

differently. And on the topic of the

enemy, I saw someone in the fitness

space was like, "Keto is absolute

horseshit." And that's another example

of like what you're saying. They're

taking like a stance where you have so

many people that are using keto and

really liking it and they're like, "Wait

a minute." Like, "Why does this person

hate it?" And then they go and they

watch that video and they watch it till

the very end. And then they probably

comment and be like, "Hey, you're an

idiot." And they're like, "I love it.

Bring it on." Like, "Bring it on. We

love this." And it's so it's so interesting.

interesting.

>> That's a really interesting example as

well because you can you can have an

overall brand enemy. So say let's use

this for an example. Maybe that person's

overall brand enemy is fads like fitness

fads would be the name of the enemy. And

then you can have the overall enemy and

then micro enemies within that fad. So

maybe each of their videos is just

taking on a different fad. So we've got

keto, we've got intermittent fasting,

we've got blah blah blah. And uh it kind

of gives like a bit of a compass for

your entire content strategy is finding

the tensions within the enemy and then

coming at those. And I think also, you

know, when I talk to a lot of people

about the enemy effect, they go, "But I

don't want to be negative." And first of

all, I don't think the enemy effect is

necessarily negative, but I hear that.

What I say to that is by way of defining

the enemy, you actually get to define

the hero as well. So if back to the

gardening example, if we say the enemy

is these big gardening stores, these

corporations, they're the enemy. Then

who's the hero? Maybe it's the little

gardening store down the road, the one

that is founderowned. Uh so one thing

that you can do is instead of coming at

the enemy, you can come for the hero.

And that is also a way that you connect

with people.

>> I want to go back to the underdog thing.

And I'm curious because

how can someone position themselves and

utilize the underdog story if they're

also positioned as like an authority in

their space and they've done the thing

and they've like made it so they're

building credibility by showing that

they're an authority in their space. Is

there a way for that person to bring in

the um the underdog story into their

content or into their brand? I love this

question and absolutely there is if you

think about it Trump is an underdog.

He's one of arguably the one of the most

powerful people in the world but it's

because his enemy is something that he's

chosen to be bigger than him and that is

I mean the lamestream media is one of

his enemies or uh what does he call it?

The deep state is one of his enemies.

These are ideological things that are

big and juicy and more quote unquote

powerful than him. So just by way of the

dynamic, he is instantly an underdog by

choosing something that is more powerful

than him. So the underdog brand strategy

is a very powerful strategy because we

naturally will root for the underdog in

any given situation. It's again how

we're wired because underdogs tell us

something about ourselves. We want to

see them win because it means that we

could possibly win as well. So what I

would say to utilize this strategy is

just to choose an enemy that is bigger

than you, that is more powerful than

you, and that is causing pain to your

target audience. That's very important.

You have to be able to explicitly say,

sit down, write five ways that this

enemy is impacting the daily lives of

your target audience. And then that is

what you come for. Now you are the

spokesperson. You're the protector. And

you should fight to stop that enemy from

hurting your audience in whatever way it is.

is.

>> It's so interesting hearing you break

down all these um ideologies because

a lot of people who teach about personal

brand, it's like you just got to be

authentic and show up online as

yourself. And the way that you're

describing it, my mind is running while

listening to you, you know, listening to

you talk. I'm like, "Oh my god, if I was

to, you know, sit down and come up with

these themes and select an enemy, it's

like so much easier to start coming up

with content ideas." And I think a lot

of people who are listening to this

conversation are they're probably

thinking about their personal brand or

how they can go about creating content

in a completely different way than they

didn't originally think about. At least

I know I am.

>> Yeah. I think that be authentic is the

most annoying thing that anyone could

ever say. It pisses me off so much. like

but what is authentic? As someone who I

think it took me a long time to

understand myself and understand my

voice and my difference. I don't know

what be authentic mean. Like me 5 years

ago if you said that to me I'd be like

but what is authentic? What am I? Who am

I? I don't know. And that's why I think

that it's annoying advice because it's

like just skimming over the fact that

this identity work, as I said at the

beginning, we've got the identity and

the expression. This identity work is

just so vital. And if you do the

identity work and then do the expression

work, you'll be ahead of 99% of people

because most people just skip straight

to the expression without understanding

their themes, their tone of voice, their

enemy, you know, their beliefs, all of

this stuff. So yeah, it does make it a

whole lot easier if you start with the

identity and then do the expression. Do

you recommend somebody starting with the

identity stuff like figuring out what

their brand is before they even create a

single piece of content or is it I can

figure out the identity kind of as I go

along? Can the figuring out the identity

be some sort of like paralysis to

starting creating content?

>> Yes, I'll answer that that last question

first. It can if you are prone to

perfectionism and procrastination, it

can be something that stops you um from

getting out there if you spend too long

on it. But I'll say that doing, you

know, the frameworks that I've mentioned,

mentioned,

they're helpful. I've worked with

creators who have 500 followers and 15

million followers. It's helpful at any

stage of the journey because what I will

say is if you start content and try and

figure it out on your own, you'll

probably get there eventually, but it's

going to take you a lot longer um if you

don't do, you know, the identity work

while you're going through the process.

So, it's helpful for anyone at any

stage. It shouldn't be the thing that

stops you from starting. Just do it as

you go along. It's also okay to have

gotten to a million subscribers and then

realize that you don't know who you are

or what you're doing. That happens a lot

a lot. A lot of my clients have people

at that level who want to clarify it

more and differentiate.

>> I got a million, but I got a million,

but like I don't know.

>> What What do you notice about creators

that have made it past cringe mountain?

Maybe they're, you know, top of their

space. they're doing really well.

They're making really good money with

it. How do they keep that fuel on the

fire from yourself, from other people

that you've coached, from other people

that you've, you know, studied online?

Because Gary is kind of one of those

people that has stayed very relevant

since I was younger. And I think it's

really interesting because many of the

creators that we all know and love came

into a huge popularity and then it's

almost like this bubble pops and maybe

they have kids and they're not focused

on it. Maybe they've made enough money

and this was a means of like, you know,

financial freedom and they hit that goal

and they don't have to create anymore on

like a schedule. It's not no more like a

nineto-five job where they're showing up

and posting on this weekly cadence,

right? What do you notice about them

that keeps, you know, that kerosene on

the fire and kind of keeps them going?

>> I think this is a great question. I

think it has a lot to do with how you

define your why. And I think I listened

I'm probably gonna butcher this, but I

listened to a podcast at one point and I

can't remember who. It's one of those

things I can't remember who said it. I

can't remember which podcast, but I

remember the point. And the point was

the guest was saying that they had

worked with people in the army. Um, and

it's a grueling, you know, first few

months in the army. have to get through

terrible terrible like uh training and

obstacle courses and things like that.

And the ones that made it are the ones

who had people that they were doing it

for like a real reason. Like they had

their kids, they had their um they had

their wife, they had their husband,

whatever it is, they had something that

meant something to them that when it got

really really hard, they thought back to

that thing. And it doesn't have to be a

person. It just has to be a really clear

purpose. And through doing the identity

work, you will find that purpose. Like

once you find that thing, I feel so

driven because I'm like, "Oh, that's my

thing. I get it." The clarity, it's like

the depth of my reasoning is just there

and it will never not be there and I can

keep going back to it whenever I need

to. And I think that that's the thing

that on days that I'm completely lacking

motivation, which is often I go back to

and I go, well, I've just got to do it

because of that. It's like irrefutable

at that point. So I'd say the kerosene

is the why, the deeper reason, the

purpose. If someone is

making content for a decent amount of

time and then they're thinking to themselves

themselves

like this isn't necessarily aligning

with who I am or my life has changed and

maybe they want to not fully change up

their entire brand but maybe reposition

a little bit. Do you have any advice on

that? Like I'm noticing the person I am

and the life that I'm living. I just

turned 30 now versus me at 23, 24. I was

still making content online, but

thinking about like the person that I

was back then versus the person that I

am now. And the content that I was

making back then versus now, completely

different. It's taken me a while to like

get clarity on like what kind of content

I actually want to make and how I want

to be perceived online and what like

message I want to share. But for someone

who as they go on, I also think about

myself probably at 35 or 40 is going to

look a lot different than I am now. What

advice do you have for that person as

they continue to create content and they

themselves change, but you still want to

stay constant with like those themes and

beliefs? Like what advice do you have

for that creator to like create

longevity for themselves, but they're

changing a little bit, you know, as they

grow? I think that often your themes

won't change but your beliefs might. So

what I find with creators that I work

with is if they want to change you know

years after working together often it's

not the themes that change because if

you if done right that exercise is about

defining the core of your being like who

you are as a person and I think that

very rarely changes but the way you go

about those themes is often what

changes. So I would say just keep really

clued in with how those things are

changing like how your beliefs about

your themes are changing throughout your

career. And the other thing I would say

is define your tone of voice. And a

really way a easy way to do this is just

to choose three words that you filter

all of your communications through. And

these words also they can change over a

number of years but I found that they

don't really change that much. So my

words for example are strategic,

observant, and irreverent. So whenever

I'm creating a con piece of content, I'm

going am I being strategic enough? Am I

being observant enough? Am I being

irreverent enough? And if yes, then that

is a piece of content that represents me

and it feels cohesive and on brand. So

if you get clear on those things, then

you can monitor them as you go

throughout your career. It's always okay

to change, but just change with strategy

and intention. That's all I'd say. I

love that. Is there is there a specific

platform that you're really trying to

hone in a lot of your attention on right now?

now?

>> For us, it's YouTube. Like YouTube is

our child and it feels like, oh my god,

let's just get this YouTube to keep

going because it is one of the only

platforms that it does pay us a

consistent amount of money every month

uh from the AdSense, which is really

cool. And it wasn't something in the

beginning that we were really thinking

about a ton. And now it's allowed us to

kind of like grow our operation and hire

more people to help us out. And I'm

curious kind of where you're doubling

down at the end of 2025.

>> YouTube. I'm bullish on YouTube. I love

YouTube. And it's funny cuz I'm someone

who's been in short form content

creation for 10 years and I just moved

to YouTube just under a year ago and I

love it. It's like something clicked for

me finally. And this is another thing

where it helps to have your themes and

your beliefs defined because once I

started on YouTube, I was like,

everything perfectly aligns here with

like this platform and my goals and my

values. My beliefs, they're all aligned.

And I think, you know, for example,

connection uh as one of my values and my

beliefs, how to connect with people and

that being the most important thing,

YouTube is the way to do that. You know,

I not to say that you can't do that on

social short form platforms like

Instagram, Tik Tok, but if you really

want to connect with someone and, you

know, have them feel something about

you, having them listen to you for 10

minutes at a time is what's going to do

that rather than just a fleeting, you

know, passing by uh reel. Not to say

that short form isn't important, but for

me, I think that YouTube is incredible.

I couldn't believe it when I found it. I

was like, you know, a what do you mean?

I can elaborate on my points. It's It

was amazing.

>> You're really good at those hooks. Like,

you were so good at capturing someone's

attention right off the bat in those

first 30 seconds.

>> What is the Zagnar Zagnar effect?

Zagernar. Zagernick effect. Someone help

me pronounce the word. How do you say it?

it? >> Zagarnic.

>> Zagarnic. >> Zarnick.

>> Zarnick.

>> You almost had

>> That was close. What is the Zarnic

effect? because it's something that

you've mentioned before in your videos

and I think it's something that the

Rocks need to know. What is it?

>> Yeah. Well, thank you for that

compliment first of all. I think that um

uh it's down to 10 years of trying to

think of the most hookiest angle of

things. So, I appreciate that it's

coming through. Um the zonic effect is essentially

essentially

a psychological phenomenon where open

loops make us want to come back time and

time again. So, the Mona Lisa, for

example, uses the zagonic effect because

when you look at the Mona Lisa, you

don't know if she's smiling or frowning.

You don't know if she's sick, uh, you

know, angry. It you can't quite get a

hold of the expression. And this

ambiguity makes us come back over and

over again. It's why uh, cliffhers of TV

shows do something so crazy to our brain

because our brain keeps coming back to

try and solve it. Our brains are

problem-solving machines. So our brains

go, well, we need to find the answer to

that. We need closure. So they keep

coming back. So if the way that this

comes down to creators is if you can

understand how to leave a loop open in

some way, whether this is in your

content, whether this is in your, you

know, consistent brand voice, maybe you

conceal the identity of something in

your content or you uh keep people

guessing with your posting schedule.

Having some kind of open loop in you, in

your brand, in your content, keeps

people coming back and obsessing and

wanting to get the closure that their

brain is asking them for.

>> Did you just say someone can utilize

inconsistent posting to actually grow a

magnetic personal brand? That's [ __ ]

wild. That's wild.

>> You never know when I'm coming back, baby.

baby.

>> Thank God.

>> Oh, no. See, that could be used by the

wrong person. That can be dangerous

advice. Um, I'll put some caveats on that.

that. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> People need to be able to miss you. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> So, if you haven't built an audience, no

one's going to care if you post

irregularly, then you just post

irregularly. So, if you, you know, have

a million followers and then you keep

people guessing. Then,

>> can we, can we kind of go, can we go

into this a little bit more? You know, a

creator that me and Braden absolutely

love and adore is Casey Neistat. And he

has done that so well. But I think you

have to earn that right to

>> like you put in your time and you build

something amazing and then you leave

people wanting more and every time he

comes back it's like such a treat. I

know you've talked also about somebody

like Frank Ocean, right? Like Frank

Ocean doesn't put out music all that

often, but when he drops, people are

listening. But he's gained that um

ability because his his albums are so

[ __ ] good that you're like whenever

he drops, I'm dropping everything to go

listen. So,

is it just you got to put in your time?

We're also in a like pe people who get

into content creation, you worry about

having to post consistently and if I

take a break, I'm going to be

irrelevant. And so, how can someone get

to a place of I can take a break and

people are going to miss me and I I I'm

going to come back when I want.

>> I think it really depends on the

platform as well. I will say that I

think that YouTube is more conducive to

taking a little bit of a break. Like I

don't think posting consistency is as

important for the algorithm as somewhere

like Instagram. Um so what I'd say is it

is just about building that relationship

before you give that distance. So if you

are someone like Frank Ocean who's just

a freak of nature, he's been good from

the jump. He didn't have really much of

a period of public um you know

improvement and I will say that's a rare situation.

situation.

um you can just disappear because people

have already made that connection uh

with him, with his themes, with his

lyrics. He has this innate ability to

just connect with people. So when he

pulls away, people care because they're

connected. So I think this takes a bit

of, you know, intuition from a creative

person. You have to understand, okay, is

my audience connecting with me? Do I

feel like I've connected to a community

community? In that case, people will

care if you have some ambiguity and take

take a bit of distance, but until you're

at that point, it's probably not a good

strategy to use.

>> And would you say it's a little bit

easier for someone more on the

entertainment side of things, like an

entertainment creator versus someone

who's providing a ton of knowledge. I

think about somebody like an Emma

Chamberlain, right? Like the value that

she's providing the audience member is

that she's super entertaining and you

love her personality. And so you're

going to miss that because she is a

quote unquote one of one. There's nobody

really else like her. And if people are

trying to jock her like editing style or

her personality, they're just kind of

second best to her. And so you miss

that. Like you love Emma Chamberlain. So

whenever she drops, you're coming back.

I think about somebody who their brand

is around providing value maybe from a

more educational standpoint. if they're

not putting out that content, they're

probably gonna find the information from

another creator or from, you know,

chatbt or something. So, would you say

that strategy might work a little bit

better for an entertainment based

creator versus like an educational?

>> Well, this is exactly why I think that

people need to get to the emotional core

of their brand because I don't really

see it like information versus

entertainment. I think that all creators

should have the effect on their audience

like Emma does. likeformational creators

should be aiming to make that emotional

connection and it's completely possible.

Um so you know for example an

informational channel about finance um

the the feeling might be freedom and a

different channel about finance the

feeling might be control. So if you can

get really clear on the feeling that

you're trying to get across the

emotional connection that you're

building with your audience through the

information then yes they will miss you.

uh I think that it will work for

everyone if if they build their brand

correctly and build their identity,

right? So yeah, I think information more

valuebased knowledge channels should

always still be making their priority to

build an emotional connection through

sharing the knowledge. Like sharing the

knowledge is a process, but at the core

of that is the feeling and the emotional

bedrock. You spoke to us a little bit

about an openloop framework and how at

the end of a movie, you know, if we get

left on a cliffhanger, we're a little

bit pissed off. But you also have a

fourstep loop framework. What is the

four-step loop framework that you talk

to people about?

>> Yeah. So, there are four ways that you

can leave loops open. And the first one

is the loop of who? And this is the identity of people. So, you know, um MF

identity of people. So, you know, um MF Doom, um Darth Punk, um all of these

Doom, um Darth Punk, um all of these brands that have concealed their

brands that have concealed their identities. DJ Marshmallow, um Dream on,

identities. DJ Marshmallow, um Dream on, he's a YouTuber, wear a mask for a long

he's a YouTuber, wear a mask for a long time. These people and these brands have

time. These people and these brands have all been able to grow so big so quickly.

all been able to grow so big so quickly. I think in part to the fact that there

I think in part to the fact that there is this open loop about their brand. We

is this open loop about their brand. We are constantly just sitting there

are constantly just sitting there thinking, who is this? What? Even if

thinking, who is this? What? Even if it's not, you know, conscious, it's

it's not, you know, conscious, it's subconscious. Who is this? Where are

subconscious. Who is this? Where are they from? What do they think? Like,

they from? What do they think? Like, we're just trying to solve this problem

we're just trying to solve this problem of the loop of who. The second loop is

of the loop of who. The second loop is the loop of when. And this is, as we

the loop of when. And this is, as we were speaking about, this inconsistency.

were speaking about, this inconsistency. So, Frank Ocean can drop and then

So, Frank Ocean can drop and then disappear. Beyonce can drop and

disappear. Beyonce can drop and disappear. Um, there's this creator that

disappear. Um, there's this creator that I follow named D'Angelo. He actually

I follow named D'Angelo. He actually hasn't posted for ages, but I still go

hasn't posted for ages, but I still go to it to go to his page to check if he's

to it to go to his page to check if he's posted. He hasn't posted in about 6

posted. He hasn't posted in about 6 months. I still go regularly to go check

months. I still go regularly to go check if he's posted because that is the loop

if he's posted because that is the loop of when in my brain. When is he going to

of when in my brain. When is he going to post? When am I going to hear from this

post? When am I going to hear from this person again? The next one is how much

person again? The next one is how much and this is about access. So Beyonce is

and this is about access. So Beyonce is really good at this. Taylor Swift is

really good at this. Taylor Swift is really good about this. They say you

really good about this. They say you can't access me unless XYZ. Beyonce

can't access me unless XYZ. Beyonce doesn't really give interviews. Adele

doesn't really give interviews. Adele doesn't really play shows. This is about

doesn't really play shows. This is about making um the the presence of that

making um the the presence of that person a really special thing and being

person a really special thing and being strategic about how much presence you

strategic about how much presence you give people. And then the loop of why is

give people. And then the loop of why is about leaving stories open and Taylor

about leaving stories open and Taylor Swift is really good at this. She leaves

Swift is really good at this. She leaves Easter eggs in things where people try

Easter eggs in things where people try and figure out what she means. What why

and figure out what she means. What why did she do that? Why did she wear that?

did she do that? Why did she wear that? What's that mean? Um, so yeah, those are

What's that mean? Um, so yeah, those are the four loops. Just a really simple way

the four loops. Just a really simple way of thinking about how to get people

of thinking about how to get people triggering that zonic effect in their

triggering that zonic effect in their brain.

brain. >> Is there a way that people can bring

>> Is there a way that people can bring that into their content? I know we were

that into their content? I know we were talking about these like massive icons

talking about these like massive icons that maybe aren't playing into the

that maybe aren't playing into the content creation game that maybe a

content creation game that maybe a typical listener of this audience is.

typical listener of this audience is. Um, is there a way of, you know,

Um, is there a way of, you know, creating these loops um, in a way that

creating these loops um, in a way that actually is effective? Like we said,

actually is effective? Like we said, kind of the how much or when you're

kind of the how much or when you're posting, if it's sporadic, it might not

posting, if it's sporadic, it might not be the best strategy. Like, is there a

be the best strategy. Like, is there a way that you think about creating these

way that you think about creating these hooks or creating these open loops that

hooks or creating these open loops that are um, you know, more conducive to a

are um, you know, more conducive to a regular creator?

regular creator? >> Yeah, absolutely. So when I think about

>> Yeah, absolutely. So when I think about it on the level of just one piece of

it on the level of just one piece of content, you want to think about an open

content, you want to think about an open loop in the same way. So if the whole

loop in the same way. So if the whole piece of content is a circle, what is

piece of content is a circle, what is the thing that you're leaving open? And

the thing that you're leaving open? And you know, I I have a lovehate

you know, I I have a lovehate relationship with the idea of hooks,

relationship with the idea of hooks, like the concept of hooks, because I

like the concept of hooks, because I think it's a good framework for making

think it's a good framework for making people understand that the very

people understand that the very beginning of the video is very important

beginning of the video is very important for getting people's, you know,

for getting people's, you know, attention and connection. But really, I

attention and connection. But really, I like to think of a piece of content in a

like to think of a piece of content in a way of what loops are you opening in the

way of what loops are you opening in the first part or throughout the video. So,

first part or throughout the video. So, when I make a YouTube video, I'm just

when I make a YouTube video, I'm just trying to open loops in the beginning of

trying to open loops in the beginning of a video. I ask questions. I go, "What is

a video. I ask questions. I go, "What is going on here? What does it mean? And

going on here? What does it mean? And how can you use it in your own brand?"

how can you use it in your own brand?" Those are my loops that I open. But if

Those are my loops that I open. But if you were making, you know, a piece of

you were making, you know, a piece of content about gardening, what loops can

content about gardening, what loops can you open that make people very

you open that make people very subconsciously go, "Yeah, what is that?

subconsciously go, "Yeah, what is that? What is what is the closure there? What

What is what is the closure there? What is the question?" So it could be a

is the question?" So it could be a visual loop like uh one that I see a lot

visual loop like uh one that I see a lot is influencers make their coffees on

is influencers make their coffees on camera and this in itself is kind of

camera and this in itself is kind of like an open loop because we very

like an open loop because we very subconsciously and naturally just want

subconsciously and naturally just want to see the coffee complete. So if

to see the coffee complete. So if someone is making a coffee in the

someone is making a coffee in the beginning opens a loop in our brain. We

beginning opens a loop in our brain. We want to see the coffee complete. And

want to see the coffee complete. And maybe we don't subconsciously like we

maybe we don't subconsciously like we don't consciously realize that but

don't consciously realize that but subconsciously that's what our brain is

subconsciously that's what our brain is doing. So try and open as many loops as

doing. So try and open as many loops as you can whether it's a question that

you can whether it's a question that you're asking something that you're

you're asking something that you're doing on screen like maybe you're

doing on screen like maybe you're knitting and that you can't tell what it

knitting and that you can't tell what it is yet uh what you're saying all these

is yet uh what you're saying all these kinds of things. So look at it like your

kinds of things. So look at it like your job is to open loops and close them by

job is to open loops and close them by the end of the video. I think though

the end of the video. I think though what you're saying, we're also seeing a

what you're saying, we're also seeing a lot of creators have shows like a lot of

lot of creators have shows like a lot of the YouTube creators that are very

the YouTube creators that are very successful. I just watched a really

successful. I just watched a really great video by Colin and Samir where

great video by Colin and Samir where they were talking about uh Kelly Wakasa

they were talking about uh Kelly Wakasa was the creator that they were like

was the creator that they were like hosting on this channel called Creator

hosting on this channel called Creator Support and they were explaining and

Support and they were explaining and showing how different creators are kind

showing how different creators are kind of like owning phrases. like Ryan Treyan

of like owning phrases. like Ryan Treyan just went and tried all these different

just went and tried all these different Airbnbs and like his phrase is like I

Airbnbs and like his phrase is like I tried X and you're coming back to this

tried X and you're coming back to this show to kind of see like oh what did

show to kind of see like oh what did Ryan try like what am I what are we

Ryan try like what am I what are we going to see that he tried out or

going to see that he tried out or another popular uh you know little thing

another popular uh you know little thing that people are doing on YouTube is like

that people are doing on YouTube is like blank verse blank and you're like oh I'm

blank verse blank and you're like oh I'm kind of curious like how the cheap thing

kind of curious like how the cheap thing stacks up against the expensive thing

stacks up against the expensive thing and it does start us off in the very

and it does start us off in the very beginning of those videos like well I

beginning of those videos like well I want to see like how it stacks up

want to see like how it stacks up they'll show you like a little bit of

they'll show you like a little bit of one and a little bit of the other but

one and a little bit of the other but you're like I I want want to see them

you're like I I want want to see them versus one another. I want to see like

versus one another. I want to see like why I clicked on this video is to kind

why I clicked on this video is to kind of see that thing close the gap. And I

of see that thing close the gap. And I think that that's what we're going to

think that that's what we're going to keep seeing on social. And I'm seeing it

keep seeing on social. And I'm seeing it on short form now with these little

on short form now with these little micro shows that keep popping up on my

micro shows that keep popping up on my feed. Like they're 10 episode shows, you

feed. Like they're 10 episode shows, you know, and it's I'm coming to it's like

know, and it's I'm coming to it's like TV but vertical now. That's super

TV but vertical now. That's super interesting to kind of see like that

interesting to kind of see like that transition happening on short form.

transition happening on short form. >> I love that way of content creation. I

>> I love that way of content creation. I think that it just makes a lot of sense

think that it just makes a lot of sense because it's less work from you as a

because it's less work from you as a content creator once you have a

content creator once you have a throughine in your content. It's so easy

throughine in your content. It's so easy to just keep creating content under that

to just keep creating content under that through line. Like I tried that's a

through line. Like I tried that's a through line, you know, someone's

through line, you know, someone's content who uh look like I look at

content who uh look like I look at Michelle Car Curry. I don't know how to

Michelle Car Curry. I don't know how to say her last name.

say her last name. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> She she also does the I tried and it's

>> She she also does the I tried and it's like running a marathon versus flying a

like running a marathon versus flying a plane. If there was just someone doing

plane. If there was just someone doing these random things, you'd be like,

these random things, you'd be like, "Okay, they're not very cohesive.

"Okay, they're not very cohesive. They're a bit scattered." But because

They're a bit scattered." But because her throughine, I tried ties it all

her throughine, I tried ties it all together, we go, "Okay, this is very

together, we go, "Okay, this is very interesting." That um you're right. It

interesting." That um you're right. It leaves a bit of an open loop for that.

leaves a bit of an open loop for that. Yeah.

Yeah. >> There was a YouTube video that you had

>> There was a YouTube video that you had and I believe it was called the IKEA

and I believe it was called the IKEA effect. What or No, it was something

effect. What or No, it was something with the egg. Is this the egg one? Is

with the egg. Is this the egg one? Is this is that the egg one? Right.

this is that the egg one? Right. >> That was like mindboggling to me when I

>> That was like mindboggling to me when I watched this a few nights ago. Can you

watched this a few nights ago. Can you tell us about the IKEA effect and how

tell us about the IKEA effect and how someone can add that into their content?

someone can add that into their content? >> Yeah, I love this one. So, I'll start

>> Yeah, I love this one. So, I'll start with how it started. Back in the ' 70s,

with how it started. Back in the ' 70s, um, instant cakes were just becoming a

um, instant cakes were just becoming a thing. So, Betty Crocker came up with

thing. So, Betty Crocker came up with the genius idea of instant cake mix and

the genius idea of instant cake mix and they said, "It's just a powder. All you

they said, "It's just a powder. All you do is add water." Who was cooking at the

do is add water." Who was cooking at the time? Housewives. So, you know, they

time? Housewives. So, you know, they launched it to the market going great.

launched it to the market going great. this is going to be a huge hit. And it

this is going to be a huge hit. And it didn't go very well. Sales were nowhere

didn't go very well. Sales were nowhere near what they expected it to be. And

near what they expected it to be. And they couldn't understand why because

they couldn't understand why because they should have a hit on their hands,

they should have a hit on their hands, right? Like it was saving people time.

right? Like it was saving people time. It was saving people money. It was easy.

It was saving people money. It was easy. It was intuitive. So they hired a team

It was intuitive. So they hired a team of psychologists.

of psychologists. And they found that the fact that there

And they found that the fact that there was no work for the hat for the um for

was no work for the hat for the um for the baker to do, for the woman to do, uh

the baker to do, for the woman to do, uh meant that they didn't really enjoy the

meant that they didn't really enjoy the process. And furthermore, they didn't

process. And furthermore, they didn't feel proud of the final outcome. When

feel proud of the final outcome. When they had the cake in front of them, they

they had the cake in front of them, they didn't feel like they could say, "That's

didn't feel like they could say, "That's my cake." So what they did is that they

my cake." So what they did is that they said on the packet, "Add an egg." And

said on the packet, "Add an egg." And suddenly the sales of instant cake mix

suddenly the sales of instant cake mix took off because now they got to add an

took off because now they got to add an egg. They got to be part of the process.

egg. They got to be part of the process. They had to crack it. They had the

They had to crack it. They had the sensory experiment of opening an egg and

sensory experiment of opening an egg and putting it in and then beating it.

putting it in and then beating it. Suddenly it was their cake. So it's a

Suddenly it was their cake. So it's a bit of a metaphor for the fact that we

bit of a metaphor for the fact that we are more obsessed with things that we

are more obsessed with things that we have helped build. And you can see this

have helped build. And you can see this being utilized in IKEA because what do

being utilized in IKEA because what do you mean I have to pay a lot of money to

you mean I have to pay a lot of money to buy a bed frame that I have to put

buy a bed frame that I have to put together? But the thing is when I have

together? But the thing is when I have that final product, I value that bed

that final product, I value that bed frame more because I have helped create

frame more because I have helped create it. So IKEA uses this, but content

it. So IKEA uses this, but content creators are also using this, brands are

creators are also using this, brands are also using this, fandoms are using this.

also using this, fandoms are using this. So really the message is help your

So really the message is help your audience help. How can you let your

audience help. How can you let your audience feel like they have built you

audience feel like they have built you as much as you have built you? Things

as much as you have built you? Things like um you know with K-pop uh people

like um you know with K-pop uh people build the fandoms and the realities and

build the fandoms and the realities and the mythologies. Uh with things like

the mythologies. Uh with things like Fortnite I get to build the skins of the

Fortnite I get to build the skins of the characters. um with the same with Sims.

characters. um with the same with Sims. So, how can you make people

So, how can you make people how can you make people input something

how can you make people input something and then by way of inputting something

and then by way of inputting something they feel like it's their thing as much

they feel like it's their thing as much as it is your thing? What's interesting

as it is your thing? What's interesting is anytime I buy something that I got to

is anytime I buy something that I got to build, I'm hiring a task rabbit. And and

build, I'm hiring a task rabbit. And and my fiance goes, "Oh, like I put I got

my fiance goes, "Oh, like I put I got her a vanity and I think it took me like

her a vanity and I think it took me like three [ __ ] days to make, but it's

three [ __ ] days to make, but it's because I didn't think you could use an

because I didn't think you could use an electric drill to do it. So, I was

electric drill to do it. So, I was really doing it manually." And I

really doing it manually." And I finished it finally. And she goes,

finished it finally. And she goes, "Don't you feel like a man that you

"Don't you feel like a man that you built?" I go, "No, really feel like I

built?" I go, "No, really feel like I wish I I I wasted [ __ ] three days.

wish I I I wasted [ __ ] three days. Wish I could have just got a task

Wish I could have just got a task rabbit." But

rabbit." But I do also think that you have a really

I do also think that you have a really good point cuz um

good point cuz um >> I think that yeah, like if you feel like

>> I think that yeah, like if you feel like you're you're a part of it and you like

you're you're a part of it and you like help maybe that underdog win,

help maybe that underdog win, >> um you feel like you had a part in this

>> um you feel like you had a part in this person's success. So you want to see

person's success. So you want to see them win even more and you're going to

them win even more and you're going to support them. Absolutely. And you know,

support them. Absolutely. And you know, it goes for fandoms. It goes for like I

it goes for fandoms. It goes for like I used to make kombucha and I swear it

used to make kombucha and I swear it tasted better than anything I've ever

tasted better than anything I've ever tasted shop bought. It didn't. I just

tasted shop bought. It didn't. I just made it. Like it's just the fact that I

made it. Like it's just the fact that I put the effort in to make it. So yes,

put the effort in to make it. So yes, how can you make people put effort in

how can you make people put effort in and enjoy the process? You're not just

and enjoy the process? You're not just getting them to do your work for you.

getting them to do your work for you. Hey, write the copy for my website. No,

Hey, write the copy for my website. No, that's not the point. It's about making

that's not the point. It's about making them enjoy the process of being part of

them enjoy the process of being part of the fandom. I'm curious to know about

the fandom. I'm curious to know about your like content creation strategy.

your like content creation strategy. Obviously, you have serious clarity on

Obviously, you have serious clarity on your personal brand and you know what to

your personal brand and you know what to make content about. What is your

make content about. What is your day-to-day, week to week look like as a

day-to-day, week to week look like as a full-time content creator? Also, I'm

full-time content creator? Also, I'm assuming you do consulting. Like, I'd

assuming you do consulting. Like, I'd love to know a little bit more about

love to know a little bit more about like how you run your business and what

like how you run your business and what does your content strategy look like

does your content strategy look like trying to balance both short form and

trying to balance both short form and long form content.

long form content. >> Ah, it's something that I'm always

>> Ah, it's something that I'm always thinking about. So my business itself,

thinking about. So my business itself, you're right, I have two offerings and

you're right, I have two offerings and that is I do one-on-one consulting with

that is I do one-on-one consulting with creators, public figures and founders

creators, public figures and founders and then I have a course which people

and then I have a course which people can buy uh and work through my framework

can buy uh and work through my framework with worksheets and things like that. So

with worksheets and things like that. So those are the two ways that people can

those are the two ways that people can access what I'm building. And then in

access what I'm building. And then in terms of what my week looks like uh week

terms of what my week looks like uh week to week, I've just recently taken a step

to week, I've just recently taken a step back from doing so much one-on-one work

back from doing so much one-on-one work because um it is you know it is very

because um it is you know it is very fulfilling but it is also timeconuming

fulfilling but it is also timeconuming and quite emotionally demanding I find

and quite emotionally demanding I find because I really care about my clients.

because I really care about my clients. So at the moment I'm focusing more on my

So at the moment I'm focusing more on my content creation. Um, so what that looks

content creation. Um, so what that looks like is I try to do one YouTube video

like is I try to do one YouTube video every two weeks. And I found that that's

every two weeks. And I found that that's a really good amount for me. And um,

a really good amount for me. And um, basically I'll write a script for about

basically I'll write a script for about 3 or 4 days. I'm a perfectionist when it

3 or 4 days. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my scripts, and I don't

comes to my scripts, and I don't recommend taking that long, but that's

recommend taking that long, but that's how long it takes me. Um, and when it

how long it takes me. Um, and when it comes to packaging it, I have a process

comes to packaging it, I have a process there. Um, I use a tool called one of

there. Um, I use a tool called one of 10. I don't know, have you have you

10. I don't know, have you have you heard of it?

heard of it? >> It's a free browser extension. Um, so I

>> It's a free browser extension. Um, so I will go to, you know, people in adjacent

will go to, you know, people in adjacent categories or not even just any category

categories or not even just any category of content creation and I just look at

of content creation and I just look at how people are packaging their content.

how people are packaging their content. I go, okay, what what is the open loop?

I go, okay, what what is the open loop? What are the themes here? What why do I

What are the themes here? What why do I think that people had clicked on this

think that people had clicked on this video? I look at outliers which are

video? I look at outliers which are above three three times what they

above three three times what they usually get and then I package my videos

usually get and then I package my videos based on my assumptions from the

based on my assumptions from the outliers of other people. Sometimes I'll

outliers of other people. Sometimes I'll just have a hunch. I'll go I think

just have a hunch. I'll go I think people will be interested in this and

people will be interested in this and I'll just go for it. But mostly I am

I'll just go for it. But mostly I am packaging my videos based on what

packaging my videos based on what outliers have performed well in uh

outliers have performed well in uh that's already out there. I think that's

that's already out there. I think that's a really good tip to go and see like on

a really good tip to go and see like on the homepage what using one of 10 what

the homepage what using one of 10 what has the like three five 9x because

has the like three five 9x because you're like okay there's something here

you're like okay there's something here clearly and there might be something

clearly and there might be something that I can steal in this video and put

that I can steal in this video and put one little detail into mine and actually

one little detail into mine and actually have it really be successful. I think

have it really be successful. I think that's a really good piece of advice.

that's a really good piece of advice. >> Yeah. And you can turn these things into

>> Yeah. And you can turn these things into frameworks as well. like one of my

frameworks as well. like one of my content frameworks is this bracket uh

content frameworks is this bracket uh effect or um psychology or um method

effect or um psychology or um method will bracket desired outcome. So the

will bracket desired outcome. So the enemy effect will make you magnetic. Uh

enemy effect will make you magnetic. Uh the rule of opposites will make people

the rule of opposites will make people obsessed with you. This is a framework

obsessed with you. This is a framework that I go back to time and time again

that I go back to time and time again because I've found that it works. And I

because I've found that it works. And I found that framework on a channel called

found that framework on a channel called Charisma on Command. Um, so they had it

Charisma on Command. Um, so they had it wasn't even very similar. It was like

wasn't even very similar. It was like something that wasn't related to

something that wasn't related to personal branding, but I just said

personal branding, but I just said that's I broke that down in my head. I

that's I broke that down in my head. I said, "What's this? What's the framework

said, "What's this? What's the framework in this title?" And then if that that

in this title?" And then if that that framework were applied to my content,

framework were applied to my content, what would that look like? So really

what would that look like? So really that's something that anyone can do with

that's something that anyone can do with anything. It's not about copying. It's

anything. It's not about copying. It's about understanding what is taking

about understanding what is taking place. Like having the mind of a

place. Like having the mind of a scientist when you're looking at

scientist when you're looking at outliers and go what is actually

outliers and go what is actually happening there like what why did people

happening there like what why did people click? Was it the thumbnail? Was it the

click? Was it the thumbnail? Was it the title? Was it the combination? And then

title? Was it the combination? And then turning your assumptions into a

turning your assumptions into a framework. And that is how I my first

framework. And that is how I my first video on YouTube got what 200,000 views

video on YouTube got what 200,000 views or something like that because I was

or something like that because I was scientific about it.

scientific about it. >> I think if you're not scientific about

>> I think if you're not scientific about it, you're just playing the game on hard

it, you're just playing the game on hard mode. Like

mode. Like >> yeah,

>> yeah, >> see what's working for other people and

>> see what's working for other people and like don't [ __ ] rip it. But how can

like don't [ __ ] rip it. But how can you bring that into your own work and

you bring that into your own work and your own content? I want to ask you, why

your own content? I want to ask you, why is being different better than being

is being different better than being better? Oh, I mean, different is so much

better? Oh, I mean, different is so much better than better. Uh, and I'll tell

better than better. Uh, and I'll tell you why. It's because better doesn't

you why. It's because better doesn't stand out. We expect everything to be

stand out. We expect everything to be better. We expect good. We don't expect

better. We expect good. We don't expect different. So, the biggest asset that

different. So, the biggest asset that you can have is a difference.

you can have is a difference. Differentiation is one of the most

Differentiation is one of the most important parts of your brand. And

important parts of your brand. And that's differentiation against your

that's differentiation against your category, but also differentiation

category, but also differentiation against your competitors. And really

against your competitors. And really again trying to get in the mind of

again trying to get in the mind of people what do people expect and how am

people what do people expect and how am I different from that and that will be a

I different from that and that will be a superpower if you can get clear on that.

superpower if you can get clear on that. >> Do you think we're a little different?

>> Do you think we're a little different? Please say yes.

Please say yes. >> Absolutely. I think the combination of

>> Absolutely. I think the combination of both of your personalities and um the

both of your personalities and um the way that you communicate is absolutely

way that you communicate is absolutely different. It's a little bit of a um

different. It's a little bit of a um cheat code to have two of you because

cheat code to have two of you because you're instantly different because it's

you're instantly different because it's a combination that no one else can

a combination that no one else can really you know your chemistry can't be

really you know your chemistry can't be replicated really. So I think absolutely

replicated really. So I think absolutely you're different in that way. It's just

you're different in that way. It's just about getting so crystal clear on that

about getting so crystal clear on that through line that you're telling people

through line that you're telling people what why do I as a person never heard of

what why do I as a person never heard of you stumble across your content. Why do

you stumble across your content. Why do I want to join what you're building?

I want to join what you're building? That's all that really matters in the

That's all that really matters in the end. Good to get some um reassurance on

end. Good to get some um reassurance on that because me and Fig are like I think

that because me and Fig are like I think we got something like I don't know like

we got something like I don't know like so to hear you say that makes us makes

so to hear you say that makes us makes us feel a lot better. I hear okay being

us feel a lot better. I hear okay being different [ __ ] great. Okay. Sounds

different [ __ ] great. Okay. Sounds great in concept but also kind of a

great in concept but also kind of a little bit scary because you are

little bit scary because you are naturally wanting to do what everybody

naturally wanting to do what everybody else is kind of doing and if it's worked

else is kind of doing and if it's worked for them maybe it'll work for me. And

for them maybe it'll work for me. And it's almost like the safe bet. It's a

it's almost like the safe bet. It's a lot scarier to be different on the

lot scarier to be different on the internet. Do you have any frameworks or

internet. Do you have any frameworks or ways that people can find

ways that people can find >> ways to differentiate themselves and

>> ways to differentiate themselves and find what makes them different and bring

find what makes them different and bring that into their content? Can you explain

that into their content? Can you explain some like maybe specifics um in that

some like maybe specifics um in that regard?

regard? >> Yeah. And it's it's actually so

>> Yeah. And it's it's actually so interesting based on what we were just

interesting based on what we were just talking about about finding these

talking about about finding these frameworks and then plugging yourself

frameworks and then plugging yourself into if you haven't differentiated

into if you haven't differentiated yourself, you will just end up copying

yourself, you will just end up copying people and um So you have to understand,

people and um So you have to understand, yeah, your difference before you're able

yeah, your difference before you're able to do that and do it justice. So what I

to do that and do it justice. So what I will say about copying the category

will say about copying the category leader is that you're never going to

leader is that you're never going to beat someone at being themselves. That

beat someone at being themselves. That it's just a losing battle. So you can

it's just a losing battle. So you can try, but good luck. Um, so how to

try, but good luck. Um, so how to differentiate yourself? I'd say the best

differentiate yourself? I'd say the best place to start is sit down and uh make

place to start is sit down and uh make two columns. On the left side, write

two columns. On the left side, write expectations. On the right side, write

expectations. On the right side, write me. And then define your category. So,

me. And then define your category. So, what category are you in? For me, it

what category are you in? For me, it would be personal branding. What

would be personal branding. What category would you guys be in?

category would you guys be in? >> I think for this podcast, I think it is

>> I think for this podcast, I think it is a merge between

a merge between the creator economy, creativity, but

the creator economy, creativity, but also business. I think we're kind of

also business. I think we're kind of trying to merge those two.

trying to merge those two. >> It's like a little triangle, I would

>> It's like a little triangle, I would say.

say. >> Kind of merge those.

>> Kind of merge those. >> Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it is like it it

>> Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it is like it it is creativity and business cuz it's like

is creativity and business cuz it's like creator economy. It's monetizing online.

creator economy. It's monetizing online. It's how to make money using an

It's how to make money using an unconventional method that's very new.

unconventional method that's very new. Like this is still such a new career

Like this is still such a new career that's emerged in the last like

that's emerged in the last like >> you know 7 to 10 years. Um that our

>> you know 7 to 10 years. Um that our parents like they have no idea what the

parents like they have no idea what the heck is going on and like how we make

heck is going on and like how we make money. And when I tell my dad that I'm

money. And when I tell my dad that I'm like podcasting he's like still don't

like podcasting he's like still don't understand that. I'm like it's all good.

understand that. I'm like it's all good. we will talk about it one day. Um, you

we will talk about it one day. Um, you know, I think though that it is not

know, I think though that it is not necessarily like one thing, you know, I

necessarily like one thing, you know, I don't know if that if that kind of

don't know if that if that kind of >> Okay, how about this? What do people

>> Okay, how about this? What do people assume you are when they first come

assume you are when they first come across you when you talk to them at a

across you when you talk to them at a party and you try to tell them what you

party and you try to tell them what you do? What do they assume about you and

do? What do they assume about you and who at what you do?

who at what you do? >> They assume that I think we're creators

>> They assume that I think we're creators that we like make money using using our

that we like make money using using our phone or using a camera. I would say for

phone or using a camera. I would say for like for both of us, right? Would you

like for both of us, right? Would you say that?

say that? >> Yeah. It's it's really interesting

>> Yeah. It's it's really interesting because me and Braden,

because me and Braden, >> there's a few different things that we

>> there's a few different things that we do and the podcast kind of falls into

do and the podcast kind of falls into one of those even though it is like a

one of those even though it is like a major thing that we do. It's like we got

major thing that we do. It's like we got the podcast. We also make actual video

the podcast. We also make actual video and photo content for brands where we're

and photo content for brands where we're not in it. We also work with brands on

not in it. We also work with brands on our own social media. So, those are kind

our own social media. So, those are kind of like the three ways that we I guess

of like the three ways that we I guess make money and like support ourselves

make money and like support ourselves and it kind of all falls under the brand

and it kind of all falls under the brand of 505/braden

of 505/braden and Costas.

and Costas. >> And what would you be offended if

>> And what would you be offended if someone assumed you did?

someone assumed you did? >> That's a good question.

>> That's a good question. [Music]

[Music] >> I think I'd be offended if somebody

>> I think I'd be offended if somebody called me an influencer.

called me an influencer. >> That's because I think there's a certain

>> That's because I think there's a certain connotation with that. There's also a

connotation with that. There's also a certain connotation with like the term

certain connotation with like the term content creator.

content creator. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um but I think that Yeah. I think if

>> Um but I think that Yeah. I think if somebody Okay, this is a great example.

somebody Okay, this is a great example. When I was back in the day when I

When I was back in the day when I thought building a personal brand or

thought building a personal brand or creating content online was me needing

creating content online was me needing to like be in front of the camera posing

to like be in front of the camera posing for photos because I'm like, "Oh, that's

for photos because I'm like, "Oh, that's what these like lifestyle content

what these like lifestyle content creators do." And people had no idea

creators do." And people had no idea that I was a photographer and

that I was a photographer and videographer. And people are like, "Oh

videographer. And people are like, "Oh yeah, you model." and and I'm like, "No,

yeah, you model." and and I'm like, "No, I don't [ __ ] mock. What are you

I don't [ __ ] mock. What are you talking about? I'm just like posing in

talking about? I'm just like posing in front of a camera for Instagram because

front of a camera for Instagram because I need to be consistent." But that kind

I need to be consistent." But that kind of offended me. And so then I was like,

of offended me. And so then I was like, "Oh, I need to bring more of like what I

"Oh, I need to bring more of like what I do for actually for work, photo, video

do for actually for work, photo, video stuff into my content." And that's kind

stuff into my content." And that's kind of when I pivoted um earlier on. But

of when I pivoted um earlier on. But yeah, to answer your question, I think

yeah, to answer your question, I think the term influencer, like I would not be

the term influencer, like I would not be want I would not want to be called an

want I would not want to be called an influencer because I don't think it

influencer because I don't think it represents what I do or what me and

represents what I do or what me and Braden do accurately.

Braden do accurately. >> Yeah. Okay. So, I love this. So, the

>> Yeah. Okay. So, I love this. So, the reason I'm asking these questions is

reason I'm asking these questions is that for this exercise, you want to

that for this exercise, you want to select a category that you are in or

select a category that you are in or that you get lumped into that you feel

that you get lumped into that you feel like doesn't do you justice, that you

like doesn't do you justice, that you feel like you are differentiated from.

feel like you are differentiated from. So let's just say we choose um okay

So let's just say we choose um okay podcasting for you guys. So we've got

podcasting for you guys. So we've got this left hand column expectations,

this left hand column expectations, right hand column me and the category is

right hand column me and the category is podcasting. Now go down each uh of the

podcasting. Now go down each uh of the columns for expectations and what do

columns for expectations and what do people expect from podcasters? There's a

people expect from podcasters? There's a bit of a thing about podcasting, right?

bit of a thing about podcasting, right? So what do we expect? um people who

So what do we expect? um people who ramble on without much idea of what the

ramble on without much idea of what the audience wants to hear or two dudes just

audience wants to hear or two dudes just talking or um people who are not very

talking or um people who are not very self-aware like we're going expectations

self-aware like we're going expectations good and bad of the category first and

good and bad of the category first and now we move over to you. What how do you

now we move over to you. What how do you break those expectations? So if

break those expectations? So if someone's expectations of the category

someone's expectations of the category of podcasting is two dudes just

of podcasting is two dudes just rambling, how can you really

rambling, how can you really differentiate yourself from that and

differentiate yourself from that and come in and go, "We have a structure. We

come in and go, "We have a structure. We have a strategy. We're here to say this,

have a strategy. We're here to say this, this, and this." And then people are

this, and this." And then people are pleasantly surprised. You break their

pleasantly surprised. You break their expectations, which makes them pay

expectations, which makes them pay attention and connect more than if you

attention and connect more than if you were just fitting into the category.

were just fitting into the category. >> I like that. I like that you have

>> I like that. I like that you have frameworks for everything. It's [ __ ]

frameworks for everything. It's [ __ ] >> phenomenal. brain works.

>> phenomenal. brain works. >> That's amazing. And I think you're right

>> That's amazing. And I think you're right though when when I think about a

though when when I think about a traditional podcast like and we've

traditional podcast like and we've gotten that comment before like oh like

gotten that comment before like oh like people need to make podcast mics more

people need to make podcast mics more expensive. I'm like that's awesome.

expensive. I'm like that's awesome. Appreciate that a ton. Um but we really

Appreciate that a ton. Um but we really are trying to provide a ton of value for

are trying to provide a ton of value for someone for free. It's like it's

someone for free. It's like it's completely free. You don't have to pay

completely free. You don't have to pay to come hang out with us and it's a show

to come hang out with us and it's a show that happens every single week. And I

that happens every single week. And I think that the people that have been

think that the people that have been with us since the very beginning, and

with us since the very beginning, and there's a lot of them that have been

there's a lot of them that have been with us for over over four years now,

with us for over over four years now, and they've seen the progression. They

and they've seen the progression. They know how much money it takes to run this

know how much money it takes to run this thing and how we go all around the world

thing and how we go all around the world interviewing people. We're going to go

interviewing people. We're going to go on a trip to Hong Kong in like four or

on a trip to Hong Kong in like four or five weeks. And it's like, we wouldn't

five weeks. And it's like, we wouldn't do that if we didn't care about helping

do that if we didn't care about helping people and about giving the best of the

people and about giving the best of the best information out for free to people.

best information out for free to people. Um, and like it just made education so

Um, and like it just made education so much cheaper because we're busting our

much cheaper because we're busting our asses and spending a [ __ ] ton of money

asses and spending a [ __ ] ton of money to bring you these guests from all

to bring you these guests from all around the world and you're spending

around the world and you're spending your time hanging out with us all the

your time hanging out with us all the way out in Australia. Like that's a

way out in Australia. Like that's a crazy thing that they get that people

crazy thing that they get that people get access to a person like you for

get access to a person like you for free. And it's like you've gotten to

free. And it's like you've gotten to hang out with the two the three of us

hang out with the two the three of us for almost two hours now. And I've

for almost two hours now. And I've learned a ton. Coast has learned a ton.

learned a ton. Coast has learned a ton. I'm sure the rocks have learned a ton.

I'm sure the rocks have learned a ton. Um, and I I'd say like that is our our

Um, and I I'd say like that is our our value prop and like that is kind of our

value prop and like that is kind of our promise is, you know, that this is a

promise is, you know, that this is a free show. Like it'll stay free. If you

free show. Like it'll stay free. If you want to work with us, sure, we can.

want to work with us, sure, we can. That's like a whole another thing, but

That's like a whole another thing, but the show will always stay free. And I

the show will always stay free. And I think that that is a very cool thing

think that that is a very cool thing that Coast and I have talked about like

that Coast and I have talked about like a ton of like this is like such an

a ton of like this is like such an educational resource that we wish we had

educational resource that we wish we had and like there's something for every

and like there's something for every step of the journey. Oh, I want to get

step of the journey. Oh, I want to get into my personal brand. Oh, I have these

into my personal brand. Oh, I have these four episodes to listen to. I want to

four episodes to listen to. I want to monetize. How do I make money online?

monetize. How do I make money online? there's three more episodes for you to,

there's three more episodes for you to, you know, to go through. And yeah, when

you know, to go through. And yeah, when you're saying that, that's kind of what

you're saying that, that's kind of what I think of.

I think of. >> And that will continue to pleasantly

>> And that will continue to pleasantly surprise people. When people have

surprise people. When people have negative expectations about your

negative expectations about your category, that's a good thing for you

category, that's a good thing for you because you get to differentiate from

because you get to differentiate from them. So people will find your podcast

them. So people will find your podcast and go, "Holy [ __ ] these guys know what

and go, "Holy [ __ ] these guys know what they're talking about. They go in with a

they're talking about. They go in with a plan. They talk to incredible people and

plan. They talk to incredible people and they do it for free." Like, this is a

they do it for free." Like, this is a differentiator that instantly works for

differentiator that instantly works for you. and that you should lean into. So

you. and that you should lean into. So the more of those that you can get out,

the more of those that you can get out, the more you will learn about your

the more you will learn about your differentiation. Just go point by point

differentiation. Just go point by point um assumption about the category and

um assumption about the category and then me. Assumption about the category

then me. Assumption about the category and then me. Differentiate yourself from

and then me. Differentiate yourself from the category and then do the same

the category and then do the same exercise with competitors. What do

exercise with competitors. What do people expect from this competitor? Then

people expect from this competitor? Then how am I different?

how am I different? >> That's funny that you say that because

>> That's funny that you say that because it's kind of like what we did when I was

it's kind of like what we did when I was starting my business. We did like a

starting my business. We did like a little bit of a SWAT analysis of

little bit of a SWAT analysis of strengths, weaknesses, threats, and

strengths, weaknesses, threats, and opportunities. And like my production

opportunities. And like my production company strictly does social stuff. And

company strictly does social stuff. And when we're pitching against these really

when we're pitching against these really big production companies that have been

big production companies that have been around for decades, it's very easy for

around for decades, it's very easy for us to differentiate ourselves because if

us to differentiate ourselves because if it is living on the phone, my argument

it is living on the phone, my argument is like they these people haven't

is like they these people haven't produced more stuff on the phone and

produced more stuff on the phone and it's just a fact. Like I'd be shocked if

it's just a fact. Like I'd be shocked if you show me their stuff and they've made

you show me their stuff and they've made more stuff on social like hats off to

more stuff on social like hats off to them. Like you should hire them. But I

them. Like you should hire them. But I just don't think that's the case. and

just don't think that's the case. and that is our differentiating factor and

that is our differentiating factor and it's really played into our advantage

it's really played into our advantage when going up against companies that are

when going up against companies that are like much bigger than us. Um, so yeah,

like much bigger than us. Um, so yeah, it's like we've taken a stance of like

it's like we've taken a stance of like social is our thing. We love social and

social is our thing. We love social and a lot of the bigger companies like

a lot of the bigger companies like social's like whatever blah like we do

social's like whatever blah like we do broadcast like that's our thing. Um, so

broadcast like that's our thing. Um, so it's interesting just to hear it in

it's interesting just to hear it in different contexts like in the creator

different contexts like in the creator economy or in you know someone who's

economy or in you know someone who's making YouTube videos and trying to

making YouTube videos and trying to build their brand the differences. And

build their brand the differences. And what do you think is your feeling? Like

what do you think is your feeling? Like what do you think you make people feel?

what do you think you make people feel? [Music]

[Music] >> I think we

>> I think we >> uncomfortable.

>> uncomfortable. >> Comfortable. I I I think like confident

>> Comfortable. I I I think like confident and I think that people feel inspired

and I think that people feel inspired that they can do it cuz like we're just

that they can do it cuz like we're just two regular guys and we're doing it and

two regular guys and we're doing it and it's like we've done it for over a

it's like we've done it for over a decade and I feel like just now we

decade and I feel like just now we barely feel like we have steam really

barely feel like we have steam really going ahead on the tracks and we show

going ahead on the tracks and we show people that it's possible and we bring

people that it's possible and we bring on people who you would think would be

on people who you would think would be so overly confident and they're doing

so overly confident and they're doing it. They're making all this money.

it. They're making all this money. they've been doing it forever and they

they've been doing it forever and they all have like stories of doubt and

all have like stories of doubt and stories of you know chugging up a

stories of you know chugging up a mountain and stories of second-guessing

mountain and stories of second-guessing whether this was a career that they

whether this was a career that they should be taking or their family was

should be taking or their family was supportive of them and I think I think

supportive of them and I think I think it's really confidence and like belief

it's really confidence and like belief confidence belief yeah I think those are

confidence belief yeah I think those are the two things for sure that come to my

the two things for sure that come to my mind what do you think

mind what do you think >> so that that is so important when it

>> so that that is so important when it comes to differentiation because you

comes to differentiation because you know things like um it being free

know things like um it being free incredible

incredible But other people can also be free.

Like if I was trying to make a podcast, I wouldn't be able to copy the way that

I wouldn't be able to copy the way that you make people feel. So that that is

you make people feel. So that that is something you should hone in to. So if

something you should hone in to. So if you get really clear on like what okay

you get really clear on like what okay specifically, what kind of confidence,

specifically, what kind of confidence, what kind of inspiration? Um and then

what kind of inspiration? Um and then lean into that. Wow. That's how things

lean into that. Wow. That's how things are that's how things blow up. It's you

are that's how things blow up. It's you know, we're simple animals. It's all

know, we're simple animals. It's all about feeling.

about feeling. >> For the record, thought we were still

>> For the record, thought we were still talking about Braden's production

talking about Braden's production company with Blue Stripe. I think we

company with Blue Stripe. I think we make people feel super comfortable on

make people feel super comfortable on the

the >> should I was trying to make a cheeky

>> should I was trying to make a cheeky little joke.

little joke. >> Oh man. Um, early on in the podcast when

>> Oh man. Um, early on in the podcast when we asked you about how you got clarity

we asked you about how you got clarity on your personal brand and more about

on your personal brand and more about your personal brand, you talked about

your personal brand, you talked about stacking skills. And I'd love to go into

stacking skills. And I'd love to go into that a little bit and how somebody can

that a little bit and how somebody can think about stacking skills in terms of

think about stacking skills in terms of building their personal brand and why

building their personal brand and why that is a way to find their like

that is a way to find their like onlyiness or to differentiate themselves

onlyiness or to differentiate themselves um when they think about those skills

um when they think about those skills that they have and how they can bring

that they have and how they can bring them into their content.

them into their content. >> Yeah, it's another great way to

>> Yeah, it's another great way to differentiate yourself because no one

differentiate yourself because no one can replicate your life experience and

can replicate your life experience and your skills. So what I'll say about that

your skills. So what I'll say about that is maybe sit down and just write down

is maybe sit down and just write down okay on the surface level what are all

okay on the surface level what are all the jobs that I've had okay and then

the jobs that I've had okay and then what are all the interests and hobbies

what are all the interests and hobbies that I've had okay and then the real key

that I've had okay and then the real key is looking for the thing that connects

is looking for the thing that connects all of those things because you'll find

all of those things because you'll find one you will find one we are all drawn

one you will find one we are all drawn to things that I think our innate nature

to things that I think our innate nature wants to do and in within those things

wants to do and in within those things what did you enjoy if you feel like you

what did you enjoy if you feel like you can't actually make any connections. You

can't actually make any connections. You went, you know, you were in um banking

went, you know, you were in um banking and then you were in marketing and

and then you were in marketing and you're like there's no connection there.

you're like there's no connection there. Think about what you liked doing in

Think about what you liked doing in banking and what you liked doing in

banking and what you liked doing in marketing. What you were told you were

marketing. What you were told you were good at consistently in banking, what

good at consistently in banking, what you were told you were good at

you were told you were good at consistently in marketing and connect

consistently in marketing and connect those things. So, I'll give you an

those things. So, I'll give you an example. For me, you know, I've been a

example. For me, you know, I've been a musician. I've been a radio host. I've

musician. I've been a radio host. I've been a content creator. I've worked in

been a content creator. I've worked in advertising. I've been in podcasting.

advertising. I've been in podcasting. Random assortment of things, right? But

Random assortment of things, right? But the entire time, all I was doing was

the entire time, all I was doing was trying to understand how to make people

trying to understand how to make people feel something and then communicate that

feel something and then communicate that clearly. Everything. Advertising. That's

clearly. Everything. Advertising. That's all advertising is making people feel

all advertising is making people feel something and then communicating that

something and then communicating that clearly. In music, that's all that is.

clearly. In music, that's all that is. Making people feel something and then

Making people feel something and then communicating that clearly. Like I

communicating that clearly. Like I realized that there's just been this

realized that there's just been this theme throughout my whole career, making

theme throughout my whole career, making people feel something and then

people feel something and then communicating that clearly. And so I

communicating that clearly. And so I stacked all of those skills to do what

stacked all of those skills to do what I'm doing now, which is helping people

I'm doing now, which is helping people make their audiences feel something and

make their audiences feel something and communicate that clearly. So what I'll

communicate that clearly. So what I'll say about skill stacking is it's more

say about skill stacking is it's more than just going I've I've worked here,

than just going I've I've worked here, I've worked here, I've worked here. It's

I've worked here, I've worked here. It's about understanding what your strength

about understanding what your strength in all of those things were and what the

in all of those things were and what the through line was in all of those things

through line was in all of those things and then bringing that into what you do

and then bringing that into what you do now because that's your superpower.

now because that's your superpower. >> So interesting. My senior year of

>> So interesting. My senior year of college, I took a business of acting

college, I took a business of acting class because or business of acting

class because or business of acting because I thought I was like, "Oh, maybe

because I thought I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll be an actor." I also thought I

I'll be an actor." I also thought I could maybe be a DJ. Conversation for

could maybe be a DJ. Conversation for another day. Anyways,

another day. Anyways, uh one of the assignments was to contact

uh one of the assignments was to contact a working successful actor and interview

a working successful actor and interview them or like ask them a few questions

them or like ask them a few questions for about like 10 minutes. Had a friend

for about like 10 minutes. Had a friend whose dad was a working actor and I

whose dad was a working actor and I asked him like what is the piece of

asked him like what is the piece of advice you would give me if I want to

advice you would give me if I want to get into acting? And he said graduate,

get into acting? And he said graduate, don't even try to act. Go travel. Live

don't even try to act. Go travel. Live your life. get get life experience for

your life. get get life experience for about a year, then pursue acting. And

about a year, then pursue acting. And the reason he gave that advice was

the reason he gave that advice was you'll have so much more to pull from

you'll have so much more to pull from when you're creating these characters.

when you're creating these characters. Not saying building a personal brand is

Not saying building a personal brand is about creating a character, but I think

about creating a character, but I think the same advice applies in the way of

the same advice applies in the way of when you're going into creating content

when you're going into creating content or building your brand, having those

or building your brand, having those stack skills or having those life

stack skills or having those life experiences to pull from is so important

experiences to pull from is so important because then you can relate to a lot of

because then you can relate to a lot of other people and you you become unique.

other people and you you become unique. But then you can also draw from those

But then you can also draw from those experiences and talk about things that

experiences and talk about things that are like relatable to people but in a

are like relatable to people but in a unique way to yourself because you've

unique way to yourself because you've had those lived experiences and you've

had those lived experiences and you've stacked those skills.

stacked those skills. >> What a wise man. I love that advice.

>> What a wise man. I love that advice. That's super interesting. I think I

That's super interesting. I think I would 100% agree with that. And I would

would 100% agree with that. And I would also add to that, follow the fun. I

also add to that, follow the fun. I think that's what I've tried to do my

think that's what I've tried to do my whole career is just follow the fun. I

whole career is just follow the fun. I get a bit woowoo sometimes about it.

get a bit woowoo sometimes about it. Like I think we're all innately

Like I think we're all innately programmed to be pulled towards

programmed to be pulled towards something. And I think some of us listen

something. And I think some of us listen to it and some of us don't. And the

to it and some of us don't. And the people who are able to tune into that,

people who are able to tune into that, it's quiet at first and then it gets

it's quiet at first and then it gets louder and louder and then serve it are

louder and louder and then serve it are the ones that really succeed. And

the ones that really succeed. And whether you want to call that following

whether you want to call that following the fun or I don't know, destiny or

the fun or I don't know, destiny or whatever, whatever you want to call it,

whatever, whatever you want to call it, there is something inside of you that's

there is something inside of you that's pulling you towards something. If you

pulling you towards something. If you can tune into that and go, what what do

can tune into that and go, what what do I want to do? Like if you're in a job

I want to do? Like if you're in a job that you hate, great. You can tune into

that you hate, great. You can tune into what you enjoy in that job, though.

what you enjoy in that job, though. Like, is your favorite part of the day

Like, is your favorite part of the day when you're in the kitchen talking to

when you're in the kitchen talking to your colleagues or is it when you're

your colleagues or is it when you're replying to an email or is it when

replying to an email or is it when you're in a meeting presenting? Like,

you're in a meeting presenting? Like, there are clues everywhere. If you tune

there are clues everywhere. If you tune in and you just have to tune in and

in and you just have to tune in and that's the first step. It's really hard,

that's the first step. It's really hard, but I think yes, get life experience,

but I think yes, get life experience, follow the fun, and notice the through

follow the fun, and notice the through line.

line. >> God, I really like that. I I think

>> God, I really like that. I I think Costy, when we first got the mics and we

Costy, when we first got the mics and we sat down, I was like, "This is fun.

sat down, I was like, "This is fun. >> This is super fun." Like,

>> This is super fun." Like, >> it still is fun though.

>> it still is fun though. >> No, it didn't. No, I know. But I mean,

>> No, it didn't. No, I know. But I mean, like the first time the first time you

like the first time the first time you sit down and you're like, "Oh, give me

sit down and you're like, "Oh, give me the money."

the money." >> No, wait, wait, wait. Give me the money.

>> No, wait, wait, wait. Give me the money. First first time we ever we recorded the

First first time we ever we recorded the first ever episode of 55 podcast never

first ever episode of 55 podcast never put it out because we we were like

put it out because we we were like sitting next to each other not facing

sitting next to each other not facing each other like in a line. I forgot

each other like in a line. I forgot about that.

about that. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And it was so bad. I remember we're like

>> And it was so bad. I remember we're like probably 40 minutes in. We're like we

probably 40 minutes in. We're like we got this thing. Can we run this back

got this thing. Can we run this back again and we should be like in a circle?

again and we should be like in a circle? Damn, that's actually crazy. I forgot

Damn, that's actually crazy. I forgot about that. But talking about following

about that. But talking about following the fun,

the fun, you know, I think going back to like

you know, I think going back to like what makes us unique is we try to thread

what makes us unique is we try to thread the line of providing value but in a fun

the line of providing value but in a fun and entertaining way. And that was like

and entertaining way. And that was like the only way we were going to do this

the only way we were going to do this show. And we understood that like if

show. And we understood that like if it's not fun for us,

it's not fun for us, there's no way we last four plus years

there's no way we last four plus years doing it. It's like we wanted to crack

doing it. It's like we wanted to crack jokes. We didn't want it to be serious.

jokes. We didn't want it to be serious. Like we felt like we did have a lot of

Like we felt like we did have a lot of experience to pull from and we could

experience to pull from and we could bring that in and we could provide

bring that in and we could provide value, but like we wanted to make it fun

value, but like we wanted to make it fun and not be afraid to, you know, share

and not be afraid to, you know, share things that we [ __ ] up on because it

things that we [ __ ] up on because it was like us being vulnerable of like we

was like us being vulnerable of like we know some stuff but probably not

know some stuff but probably not everything. Um, most likely not

everything. Um, most likely not everything.

everything. >> Probably not.

>> Probably not. >> Yeah, probably not. But it was [ __ ]

>> Yeah, probably not. But it was [ __ ] fun and like we're not scared to cuss

fun and like we're not scared to cuss and we weren't scared to like share

and we weren't scared to like share funny stories. Um, and I think that is

funny stories. Um, and I think that is like super uh important because if it

like super uh important because if it isn't fun it's going to be hard to keep

isn't fun it's going to be hard to keep it sustainable

it sustainable >> 100%. And your body tells you, you know,

>> 100%. And your body tells you, you know, like to this day that's it's still kind

like to this day that's it's still kind of again it sounds woo. It's still how I

of again it sounds woo. It's still how I select my content ideas. Like I know

select my content ideas. Like I know that when something is really exciting

that when something is really exciting to me, I get a specific feeling in my

to me, I get a specific feeling in my chest. Like I'll get a little fluttery

chest. Like I'll get a little fluttery feeling at the thought of making a video

feeling at the thought of making a video about that. And if I have a video that's

about that. And if I have a video that's like, okay, it's passed all the checks,

like, okay, it's passed all the checks, it's got great packaging, it's done well

it's got great packaging, it's done well on, you know, other niches, blah blah

on, you know, other niches, blah blah blah, but I don't get that fluttery

blah, but I don't get that fluttery feeling, I'm not doing that piece of

feeling, I'm not doing that piece of content because I know that I'm not

content because I know that I'm not going to be able to deliver it well if

going to be able to deliver it well if it doesn't feel like it's compelling to

it doesn't feel like it's compelling to me. And I think this is also you can

me. And I think this is also you can have all the frameworks and all the

have all the frameworks and all the strategies and blah blah blah, but one

strategies and blah blah blah, but one of the biggest differentiators is just

of the biggest differentiators is just kind of like what your body tells you is

kind of like what your body tells you is what what is my body telling me that I

what what is my body telling me that I should be moving towards? Um, and again,

should be moving towards? Um, and again, it's really quiet at first, but like you

it's really quiet at first, but like you said, um, Braden, when you started

said, um, Braden, when you started podcasting and you and you felt that,

podcasting and you and you felt that, you feel it. When it clicks, it clicks

you feel it. When it clicks, it clicks and you got to pay attention cuz

and you got to pay attention cuz sometimes it's very quiet. Sometimes it

sometimes it's very quiet. Sometimes it hits you like a ton of bricks.

hits you like a ton of bricks. >> Without a doubt. If if you could go back

>> Without a doubt. If if you could go back and chat with someone who's like 18

and chat with someone who's like 18 years old and they're getting ready to

years old and they're getting ready to kind of start this personal brand

kind of start this personal brand journey and start making content online.

journey and start making content online. What would you tell that person out

What would you tell that person out there that's in our community?

there that's in our community? >> I would say

>> I would say read as much as you can, learn as much

read as much as you can, learn as much as you can. like you you can't form a

as you can. like you you can't form a perspective without first inputting,

perspective without first inputting, you know, you can't output without

you know, you can't output without input. It's like you're a sponge, right?

input. It's like you're a sponge, right? And you can't ring yourself out until

And you can't ring yourself out until you filled yourself up with liquid. So

you filled yourself up with liquid. So your job honestly in the beginning is

your job honestly in the beginning is just to consume. And I don't just mean

just to consume. And I don't just mean short form content. you know, it has its

short form content. you know, it has its place for teaching you, but I mean like

place for teaching you, but I mean like do a course or if you want to go to

do a course or if you want to go to university. You don't have to though. I

university. You don't have to though. I did and I'm glad I did because it taught

did and I'm glad I did because it taught me how to think and it taught me

me how to think and it taught me interesting things. I never used it for

interesting things. I never used it for a job or anything like that, but it was

a job or anything like that, but it was value because it gave me something to

value because it gave me something to input and just accumulate information.

input and just accumulate information. And you can't have a perspective until

And you can't have a perspective until you've accumulated a lot of information.

you've accumulated a lot of information. Um, and don't just accumulate

Um, and don't just accumulate information from one perspective. Like

information from one perspective. Like try and wherever you hear someone say

try and wherever you hear someone say something, try and look up the opposing

something, try and look up the opposing perspective. Get all perspectives and

perspective. Get all perspectives and form your own perspective because people

form your own perspective because people aren't really doing that anymore. That's

aren't really doing that anymore. That's honestly how you differentiate yourself

honestly how you differentiate yourself is to input everything, think about it,

is to input everything, think about it, let it simmer, and then output with

let it simmer, and then output with intention.

intention. >> I love it. I love it. This has been such

>> I love it. I love it. This has been such a fun episode. If you guys are still

a fun episode. If you guys are still hanging out with us, please go check out

hanging out with us, please go check out Erica's socials down below. Ladies and

Erica's socials down below. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been episode 175 of

gentlemen, this has been episode 175 of the 505 podcast with Erica Mallet. And

the 505 podcast with Erica Mallet. And we'll see you guys all next week. Peace.

we'll see you guys all next week. Peace. Who's on the hit list now postpod? What

Who's on the hit list now postpod? What are you thinking?

are you thinking? >> Still Nikon

>> Still Nikon >> without a doubt.

>> without a doubt. >> 100% still Nikon.

>> 100% still Nikon. >> Mhm. Um, as someone who is slowly but

>> Mhm. Um, as someone who is slowly but surely incorporating um, running into my

surely incorporating um, running into my content, a little bit of lifting,

content, a little bit of lifting, >> I think,

>> I think, >> dude, are we kind of enemies on stories?

>> dude, are we kind of enemies on stories? You think about that for a second?

You think about that for a second? >> Yeah. Yeah, we are enemies.

>> Yeah. Yeah, we are enemies. >> We kind of are enemies on Instagram

>> We kind of are enemies on Instagram story. Yeah.

story. Yeah. >> Um,

>> Um, >> that's funny. You know, it's interesting

>> that's funny. You know, it's interesting because I was thinking about like my own

because I was thinking about like my own for my own personal brand stuff because

for my own personal brand stuff because I'm not going to be going near I'm not

I'm not going to be going near I'm not going down the path of I'm a fitness

going down the path of I'm a fitness influencer.

influencer. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> I think more so my enemy would be

>> I think more so my enemy would be someone who isn't trying to like get

someone who isn't trying to like get better

better >> at in like every aspect of their life,

>> at in like every aspect of their life, right? So fitness plays into my life

right? So fitness plays into my life because I'm trying to get better at

because I'm trying to get better at fitness and live a healthy lifestyle so

fitness and live a healthy lifestyle so that I'm able to do the things that I

that I'm able to do the things that I want. And so maybe my enemy is somebody

want. And so maybe my enemy is somebody who isn't living the healthiest

who isn't living the healthiest lifestyle but also isn't

lifestyle but also isn't going after their dreams.

going after their dreams. >> That's a really good one. The people

>> That's a really good one. The people that aren't going after their dreams. I

that aren't going after their dreams. I think I hope those people like despise

think I hope those people like despise me genuinely with a passion. Like I want

me genuinely with a passion. Like I want them to be like, "Fuck this guy. I hate

them to be like, "Fuck this guy. I hate this dude."

this dude." >> What's interesting uh in hearing her

>> What's interesting uh in hearing her talk about it is like um like not being

talk about it is like um like not being afraid to lean into that and like be a

afraid to lean into that and like be a little bit more polarizing than you

little bit more polarizing than you might think. And it might rub some

might think. And it might rub some people the wrong way, but I think about

people the wrong way, but I think about the people whose feathers you're going

the people whose feathers you're going to ruffle are not who you're trying to

to ruffle are not who you're trying to attract anyways. like like take living

attract anyways. like like take living your best life and trying to live a

your best life and trying to live a healthy lifestyle. People who are doing

healthy lifestyle. People who are doing that are going to be on board and

that are going to be on board and somebody who's maybe a little bit more

somebody who's maybe a little bit more lazy are going to say, "Fuck this dude.

lazy are going to say, "Fuck this dude. Maybe he's a little bit cringe, like

Maybe he's a little bit cringe, like it's not for me." It's like, great, that

it's not for me." It's like, great, that content wasn't for you anyways.

content wasn't for you anyways. >> I completely agree. And it's funny cuz I

>> I completely agree. And it's funny cuz I think we're both on the same page with

think we're both on the same page with the fitness thing where we really both

the fitness thing where we really both enjoy it, but

enjoy it, but it's for it's not be like, "Oh, I want

it's for it's not be like, "Oh, I want let me show you what my bench is." is my

let me show you what my bench is." is my it's this is a lifestyle that I think

it's this is a lifestyle that I think you all will enjoy. Whether it's you're

you all will enjoy. Whether it's you're playing tennis, whether you're doing

playing tennis, whether you're doing Pilates, whether you're doing yoga,

Pilates, whether you're doing yoga, whether you hit the gym, whatever,

whether you hit the gym, whatever, running, whatever the thing may be. I

running, whatever the thing may be. I think everyone should have a few of

think everyone should have a few of those things that they really enjoy

those things that they really enjoy because it makes you healthier. It makes

because it makes you healthier. It makes you feel better. It makes you, some of

you feel better. It makes you, some of them make you get outside, they'll bring

them make you get outside, they'll bring you together with different people. And

you together with different people. And like the very first community that I was

like the very first community that I was really felt a part of was fitness and I

really felt a part of was fitness and I think it's a great one still to this day

think it's a great one still to this day because of the transformation that you

because of the transformation that you see in your life. You get those little

see in your life. You get those little wins that stack up and it goes into all

wins that stack up and it goes into all of the little things that you're doing.

of the little things that you're doing. So I think that was that was very

So I think that was that was very interesting from her talk. And now when

interesting from her talk. And now when I see people posting a lot of these

I see people posting a lot of these thumbnails, a lot of these titles or

thumbnails, a lot of these titles or just videos in general, a lot of them

just videos in general, a lot of them are meant to be triggering and Because

are meant to be triggering and Because social is this place. It can be a very

social is this place. It can be a very polarizing place, especially if you find

polarizing place, especially if you find yourself on the wrong side of it where

yourself on the wrong side of it where someone says something crazy. And I hope

someone says something crazy. And I hope our audience, our rocks, take a second

our audience, our rocks, take a second when they see a piece of content that

when they see a piece of content that maybe like does trigger them and maybe

maybe like does trigger them and maybe makes them feel like a certain type of

makes them feel like a certain type of way to take a step back and be like,

way to take a step back and be like, that's exactly how they're trying to

that's exactly how they're trying to make me feel. They're trying to make me

make me feel. They're trying to make me feel upset. They're trying to get me to

feel upset. They're trying to get me to send this off. And like it's unfortunate

send this off. And like it's unfortunate that the platforms are created in a way

that the platforms are created in a way to do that because I feel like that is

to do that because I feel like that is almost like the negative side of social.

almost like the negative side of social. Uh but you know really take a step back

Uh but you know really take a step back and think about you know why are you

and think about you know why are you feeling a certain type of way about this

feeling a certain type of way about this person making this thing because that

person making this thing because that was probably their end goal.

was probably their end goal. >> Hearing her talk about also creating

>> Hearing her talk about also creating themes for yourself and having beliefs

themes for yourself and having beliefs going back to the phrase of you are the

going back to the phrase of you are the niche. I think that can be a lot uh I

niche. I think that can be a lot uh I think that can be really um like

think that can be really um like confusing for a lot of people like I

confusing for a lot of people like I don't have a specific thing like I want

don't have a specific thing like I want to just I want to get paid to like be me

to just I want to get paid to like be me on the internet and I think if you can

on the internet and I think if you can think about what are your themes like

think about what are your themes like how can you find the throughine between

how can you find the throughine between fitness and photography and podcasting

fitness and photography and podcasting and cooking whatever those things that

and cooking whatever those things that you're into that make up you that make

you're into that make up you that make you unique

you unique what is the through line. What are your

what is the through line. What are your themes? What are your beliefs? And I

themes? What are your beliefs? And I think that is how people who are kind of

think that is how people who are kind of nicheless.

nicheless. They're they're consistent with their

They're they're consistent with their beliefs and themes throughout every

beliefs and themes throughout every single piece of content um and how they

single piece of content um and how they show up in any subniche that they have

show up in any subniche that they have within their life.

within their life. >> Yeah, without a doubt. Cringe Mountain

>> Yeah, without a doubt. Cringe Mountain was also so interesting. That's a term

was also so interesting. That's a term that many of us have probably heard

that many of us have probably heard before is like you're climbing cringe

before is like you're climbing cringe mountain. But for us specifically, I

mountain. But for us specifically, I even remember some people writing

even remember some people writing reviews and if you go to our Spotify,

reviews and if you go to our Spotify, there's like a handful of like [ __ ]

there's like a handful of like [ __ ] mean reviews where someone's like,

mean reviews where someone's like, "These guys are too broy. I tried to

"These guys are too broy. I tried to show these to somebody and they're just

show these to somebody and they're just a little too broy." And it's like,

a little too broy." And it's like, "Okay, then don't listen. Then don't

"Okay, then don't listen. Then don't listen if you think we're that we're too

listen if you think we're that we're too broy." And we talked about this. I

broy." And we talked about this. I remember when someone had wrote that

remember when someone had wrote that comment and we're like, "We're just not

comment and we're like, "We're just not going to be for everybody." And like,

going to be for everybody." And like, it's almost a good thing. You want to

it's almost a good thing. You want to weed people out who don't vibe with you

weed people out who don't vibe with you because one, you're not going to change

because one, you're not going to change for some like random person on the

for some like random person on the internet. And two, the way I like to

internet. And two, the way I like to think about this, right, is if if you

think about this, right, is if if you were in a room of like a hundred people,

were in a room of like a hundred people, one, you're not going to vibe with

one, you're not going to vibe with everybody. Like, you're not you're you

everybody. Like, you're not you're you might vibe with 15 20% of them. I have

might vibe with 15 20% of them. I have no idea. Maybe you vibe with 5% of them.

no idea. Maybe you vibe with 5% of them. I don't know. And that's like the

I don't know. And that's like the audience and the community that you're

audience and the community that you're trying to build. You're not trying to

trying to build. You're not trying to build a group of like, you know, like,

build a group of like, you know, like, oh, I don't want 100% of this pie.

oh, I don't want 100% of this pie. That's not the game that you're playing.

That's not the game that you're playing. And you're not going to like attract

And you're not going to like attract that those kind of people. You're going

that those kind of people. You're going to attract people that are probably

to attract people that are probably similar to you and see themselves in you

similar to you and see themselves in you in one way or another. So when you do

in one way or another. So when you do end up getting your first hate comment,

end up getting your first hate comment, congratulations. Like welcome to the

congratulations. Like welcome to the club. It's a fun place to be. Uh it's

club. It's a fun place to be. Uh it's just kind of it's part of the game. Like

just kind of it's part of the game. Like Erica said,

Erica said, >> I also think on that topic, the people

>> I also think on that topic, the people who are the biggest who have the biggest

who are the biggest who have the biggest personal brands have probably just as

personal brands have probably just as many haters who are super loud as people

many haters who are super loud as people who really [ __ ] with them. She brought

who really [ __ ] with them. She brought up Taylor Swift. There's a lot of people

up Taylor Swift. There's a lot of people who [ __ ] hate Taylor Swift because

who [ __ ] hate Taylor Swift because she they think she makes like shitty pop

she they think she makes like shitty pop music or whatever. Like she used to be

music or whatever. Like she used to be country and now she's more pop. As we

country and now she's more pop. As we know, she is one of the [ __ ] most

know, she is one of the [ __ ] most diehard fan bases of all time. Somebody

diehard fan bases of all time. Somebody like Gary Vee, he's super like

like Gary Vee, he's super like provocative in the way that he speaks.

provocative in the way that he speaks. Um, and that might be for some people

Um, and that might be for some people and other people hate it. And so if you

and other people hate it. And so if you can remember that like you might be

can remember that like you might be super into somebody, you know, as a

super into somebody, you know, as a content creator, musician, uh, whoever

content creator, musician, uh, whoever it may be, and you love their stuff,

it may be, and you love their stuff, there might be somebody else who's like,

there might be somebody else who's like, that's not their cup of tea. And you

that's not their cup of tea. And you might be thinking, how the [ __ ] do you

might be thinking, how the [ __ ] do you not like this person? Like, they're so

not like this person? Like, they're so good. Take Taylor Swift. If you were to

good. Take Taylor Swift. If you were to tell, if we were to talk to Khloe and be

tell, if we were to talk to Khloe and be like, yo, Taylor Swift is whack. She'd

like, yo, Taylor Swift is whack. She'd be like, go off on you, right? Cuz she's

be like, go off on you, right? Cuz she's a [ __ ] super fan. And it's the same

a [ __ ] super fan. And it's the same thing like you're not going to be for

thing like you're not going to be for everybody. And the people who are who

everybody. And the people who are who have the biggest personal brands and who

have the biggest personal brands and who are the most successful,

are the most successful, they have just as many haters as they

they have just as many haters as they have supporters. Um, but it can be hard,

have supporters. Um, but it can be hard, especially when you're like not used to

especially when you're like not used to getting vulnerable and and maybe having

getting vulnerable and and maybe having a specific point of view on the

a specific point of view on the internet. You're like, "This worked for

internet. You're like, "This worked for this person. Maybe it'll work for me.

this person. Maybe it'll work for me. I'm I'm I'm scared of being cringe."

I'm I'm I'm scared of being cringe." It's it's all part of the journey.

It's it's all part of the journey. >> Totally. And I I hope that people listen

>> Totally. And I I hope that people listen to this one and go back and really think

to this one and go back and really think about their why for making content on

about their why for making content on the internet because if your why is just

the internet because if your why is just to make money, you're going to hit so

to make money, you're going to hit so many bumps in the road and that that why

many bumps in the road and that that why I just don't think is strong enough

I just don't think is strong enough because you can make money doing

because you can make money doing anything. You can make money in sales,

anything. You can make money in sales, you can make money doing solar, social

you can make money doing solar, social media, gardening, whatever the heck the

media, gardening, whatever the heck the thing may be, you can make money doing

thing may be, you can make money doing it. And your why has to be so much

it. And your why has to be so much stronger than that. And having a really

stronger than that. And having a really strong why will help you when the times

strong why will help you when the times are tough. When you're sitting and

are tough. When you're sitting and you're stuck and you don't know what to

you're stuck and you don't know what to do or you're exhausted uh or you know

do or you're exhausted uh or you know you've been on a twoe road trip and it's

you've been on a twoe road trip and it's 11:00 at night where you're at and

11:00 at night where you're at and you're trying to do an awesome podcast.

you're trying to do an awesome podcast. Like I was so prepared to do this and I

Like I was so prepared to do this and I didn't feel I didn't feel tired once we

didn't feel I didn't feel tired once we started rolling. I was exhausted. Like

started rolling. I was exhausted. Like took a flight today. We landed here.

took a flight today. We landed here. I've been shooting for the last like 10

I've been shooting for the last like 10 days non-stop. I have four days where

days non-stop. I have four days where they're going to be all night shoots.

they're going to be all night shoots. So, four days where I'm not going to

So, four days where I'm not going to sleep. I'm going to be up from like 6:00

sleep. I'm going to be up from like 6:00 p.m. to 7 a.m., which is insane to think

p.m. to 7 a.m., which is insane to think about. Um, but I would never even think

about. Um, but I would never even think about like missing this spot at 10:00

about like missing this spot at 10:00 p.m. at night because I'm doing

p.m. at night because I'm doing >> Are you shooting Are you shooting DJs?

>> Are you shooting Are you shooting DJs? >> It feels like it. It feels like it. You

>> It feels like it. It feels like it. You think I'm at the Kennedy Space Station

think I'm at the Kennedy Space Station and it's it's apparently we have to

and it's it's apparently we have to shoot at night and I didn't know that.

shoot at night and I didn't know that. >> So, wait, where are you? I haven't even

>> So, wait, where are you? I haven't even like

like >> I'm in Orlando, Florida right now. This

>> I'm in Orlando, Florida right now. This is the last leg of our trip. We're in

is the last leg of our trip. We're in Orlando, Florida, and we're about to

Orlando, Florida, and we're about to shoot at the Kennedy Space Station,

shoot at the Kennedy Space Station, which is going to be actually really

which is going to be actually really cool. But we have to shoot at night

cool. But we have to shoot at night because these lasers that they're

because these lasers that they're shooting out can only uh be seen at

shooting out can only uh be seen at night, like for them to be able to see

night, like for them to be able to see it with their devices they're using with

it with their devices they're using with these infrared cameras and all this good

these infrared cameras and all this good stuff. So, it's going to be a really

stuff. So, it's going to be a really cool experience, but it's going to be

cool experience, but it's going to be really late. And when Erica when we

really late. And when Erica when we found out Erica was in Australia, like I

found out Erica was in Australia, like I didn't even I didn't even bat an eye of

didn't even I didn't even bat an eye of like, yeah, we'll do a late pod. Like

like, yeah, we'll do a late pod. Like that's just this is just part of the

that's just this is just part of the game that we're in.

game that we're in. >> It's kind of preparing you a little bit.

>> It's kind of preparing you a little bit. >> It is. I'm like getting I'm getting used

>> It is. I'm like getting I'm getting used to being up at like 10 or 11:00 at

to being up at like 10 or 11:00 at night. But I think that to say this

night. But I think that to say this story to wrap this in a bow, it's like

story to wrap this in a bow, it's like when stuff gets tough or when it's late,

when stuff gets tough or when it's late, it's 10:30, 11:00, and you're exhausted

it's 10:30, 11:00, and you're exhausted and you've had a long travel day.

and you've had a long travel day. If you don't want to do said thing, it's

If you don't want to do said thing, it's probably not it's probably not like the

probably not it's probably not like the thing for you. You should probably think

thing for you. You should probably think about like doing something else because

about like doing something else because this show fires me up beyond belief to

this show fires me up beyond belief to bring you guys great guests and have

bring you guys great guests and have like really fun conversations. Like I

like really fun conversations. Like I feel really energized right now. I got

feel really energized right now. I got to go I'm going to go sit in the sauna

to go I'm going to go sit in the sauna outside and relax a little bit before,

outside and relax a little bit before, you know, we got to go to bed. But she

you know, we got to go to bed. But she gave so many awesome insights and I

gave so many awesome insights and I think that we both are excited about

think that we both are excited about building out our themes, man, and really

building out our themes, man, and really hammering into that. I felt like felt

hammering into that. I felt like felt like I was in like a college AP lecture

like I was in like a college AP lecture class, baby. I was locked in.

class, baby. I was locked in. >> Well, it's so nice that she has so many

>> Well, it's so nice that she has so many [ __ ] badass frameworks. It makes it

[ __ ] badass frameworks. It makes it so much uh easier and like more

so much uh easier and like more digestible and I feel like somebody will

digestible and I feel like somebody will be able to listen to this episode and be

be able to listen to this episode and be like, "All right, I can actually take

like, "All right, I can actually take some pen to paper and do it." But the

some pen to paper and do it." But the thing that she said at the end about

thing that she said at the end about follow the fun, like you're saying, it's

follow the fun, like you're saying, it's so it's so true. Like if it ain't fun

so it's so true. Like if it ain't fun for you, you might have, you know, a

for you, you might have, you know, a couple videos, you might have a couple

couple videos, you might have a couple weeks, couple months, but you're going

weeks, couple months, but you're going to burn out if you're not enjoying it.

to burn out if you're not enjoying it. So

So >> I think in anything in life, whether

>> I think in anything in life, whether it's content creation,

it's content creation, >> job, whatever,

>> job, whatever, >> what you do for work,

>> what you do for work, >> how you spend your weekends, how you

>> how you spend your weekends, how you spend your time, like follow the fun. I

spend your time, like follow the fun. I think that is I might get that tattooed.

think that is I might get that tattooed. I think that's such a great motto to

I think that's such a great motto to like live your life by because it makes

like live your life by because it makes things a lot more enjoyable. And the

things a lot more enjoyable. And the beauty about building a personal brand

beauty about building a personal brand and creating content is like following

and creating content is like following the fun and having that be your job has

the fun and having that be your job has never been more accessible and more of a

never been more accessible and more of a thing that you can do if you follow her

thing that you can do if you follow her frameworks and create a strong personal

frameworks and create a strong personal brand for yourself.

brand for yourself. >> Um

>> Um >> God, I can't wait to be home though,

>> God, I can't wait to be home though, man.

man. >> You miss your bed?

>> You miss your bed? >> I miss my bed so much.

>> I miss my bed so much. >> You miss your rock?

>> You miss your rock? >> I miss my rock so much, dude. I wish I

>> I miss my rock so much, dude. I wish I was home, but we're making good.

was home, but we're making good. >> The plants are looking good, though.

>> The plants are looking good, though. Chloe's taking care of your plants. Or

Chloe's taking care of your plants. Or were they firing?

were they firing? >> Dude, my plants popping out. Let me tell

>> Dude, my plants popping out. Let me tell you,

you, >> 17 of your [ __ ] bonsai trees.

>> 17 of your [ __ ] bonsai trees. >> I got a plant off Etsy for like $90, and

>> I got a plant off Etsy for like $90, and it was It's called a monstera. It's an

it was It's called a monstera. It's an albino one. It's very specific. People

albino one. It's very specific. People can't just go

can't just go >> an albino.

>> an albino. >> You can't just go buy that one at the

>> You can't just go buy that one at the store, okay? You got to have someone

store, okay? You got to have someone that has an albino one. And I got this

that has an albino one. And I got this thing delivered. Didn't have any.

thing delivered. Didn't have any. >> I'm sure they sell that at Target, do

>> I'm sure they sell that at Target, do they not?

they not? >> They don't. No, they don't. Not an

>> They don't. No, they don't. Not an albino one. and it just popped out its

albino one. and it just popped out its first leaf, dudes. I'm a dad. I'm a dad.

first leaf, dudes. I'm a dad. I'm a dad. >> That was pretty sweet. That was pretty

>> That was pretty sweet. That was pretty cool. But this is the last leg of our

cool. But this is the last leg of our shoot, I think. Um, dude, I It's funny

shoot, I think. Um, dude, I It's funny >> cuz I remember when I quit the Lakers, I

>> cuz I remember when I quit the Lakers, I was like, I'm not going to probably

was like, I'm not going to probably travel that much anymore. I'll probably

travel that much anymore. I'll probably be in LA like for the most part all the

be in LA like for the most part all the time. I'm just going to travel all the

time. I'm just going to travel all the time, dude. I hit silver on Delta, bro.

time, dude. I hit silver on Delta, bro. We're on the

We're on the >> cooler part of the plane now. We're in

>> cooler part of the plane now. We're in group four.

group four. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. That's big, dude.

>> Wow. That's big, dude. >> Bro, you know what's crazy? This is

>> Bro, you know what's crazy? This is actually insane.

actually insane. >> Working hard. Group six.

>> Working hard. Group six. >> Delta Delta credit card. Delta credit

>> Delta Delta credit card. Delta credit card. Okay. Free bag. Silver free bag.

card. Okay. Free bag. Silver free bag. Two free bags, bro.

Two free bags, bro. >> Oh, that's hu that's huge.

>> Oh, that's hu that's huge. >> It's actually massive. It's huge for us

>> It's actually massive. It's huge for us because I was I'm I've been traveling

because I was I'm I've been traveling like six bags. This has only been like a

like six bags. This has only been like a hundred bucks each time. And my bags

hundred bucks each time. And my bags weigh like 80 lbs each.

weigh like 80 lbs each. >> That's huge.

>> That's huge. >> It's massive for the team. And now,

>> It's massive for the team. And now, dude, I'll bring you up with me in group

dude, I'll bring you up with me in group four. Dude, you can come hang out with

four. Dude, you can come hang out with me in group four.

me in group four. >> It's the only nice thing you've ever

>> It's the only nice thing you've ever done for me. Yeah, we'll let you.

done for me. Yeah, we'll let you. >> We're getting some free bags and

>> We're getting some free bags and upgrades and stuff.

upgrades and stuff. >> Free bags. We're getting upgrades for

>> Free bags. We're getting upgrades for free. We're going to Hong Kong. I know

free. We're going to Hong Kong. I know we've said that like the last few

we've said that like the last few episodes, but now it feels like, you

episodes, but now it feels like, you know, we got to get this rolling. We had

know, we got to get this rolling. We had a few guest cancellations, which has

a few guest cancellations, which has been super fun for us to deal with.

been super fun for us to deal with. >> Yeah, that's the most fun.

>> Yeah, that's the most fun. >> God, we love Let me tell you guys

>> God, we love Let me tell you guys something. We love it. And we love the

something. We love it. And we love the guests that you guys have. Just know

guests that you guys have. Just know that when they're here, they're great

that when they're here, they're great people. They're great people. The ones

people. They're great people. The ones that cancel, it's like, "Holy [ __ ]

that cancel, it's like, "Holy [ __ ] dude. What are we doing? Why are we

dude. What are we doing? Why are we canceling? I got to tell I got to tell

canceling? I got to tell I got to tell you something.

you something. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Not pod related.

>> Not pod related. >> Okay. This is just separate.

>> Okay. This is just separate. >> Sarah Catherine works for a company

>> Sarah Catherine works for a company called Passes and the CEO very

called Passes and the CEO very successful.

successful. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> So, she had a birthday and she th and

>> So, she had a birthday and she th and her birthday I believe was on I don't

her birthday I believe was on I don't know if it was actually her birthday

know if it was actually her birthday like the day but she threw a birthday

like the day but she threw a birthday party at the HQ and their HQ used to be

party at the HQ and their HQ used to be the HQ of FaZe. It's this like massive

the HQ of FaZe. It's this like massive like compound. It's really sick. But

like compound. It's really sick. But they hired Mal P, the DJ, to come DJ and

they hired Mal P, the DJ, to come DJ and super [ __ ] fun show. It was like two

super [ __ ] fun show. It was like two hours long and um it was so intimate.

hours long and um it was so intimate. I've never been at like a show like that

I've never been at like a show like that where it was like

where it was like maybe

maybe maybe a couple hundred like probably 150

maybe a couple hundred like probably 150 people watching just raging. And it's

people watching just raging. And it's also funny because Sarah Katherine's

also funny because Sarah Katherine's like, "I [ __ ] love Malp." And I'm

like, "I [ __ ] love Malp." And I'm like, "Babe, that's pretty like deep

like, "Babe, that's pretty like deep house. Like, we're in the EDM space."

house. Like, we're in the EDM space." I'm like, "That's sick that she's kind

I'm like, "That's sick that she's kind of getting introduced to it." I'm like,

of getting introduced to it." I'm like, "Everybody loves house music. They just

"Everybody loves house music. They just don't know it. They haven't, you know,

don't know it. They haven't, you know, heard.

heard. >> We'll give her some We'll give her some

>> We'll give her some We'll give her some uh

uh >> some leeway cuz she grew up in

>> some leeway cuz she grew up in Louisiana.

Louisiana. >> This is one of my favorites at

>> This is one of my favorites at Coachella. Mr. Malp Malp is dancing."

Coachella. Mr. Malp Malp is dancing." >> Oh, sick.

>> Oh, sick. >> Malp is dancing. Do you know about this?

>> Malp is dancing. Do you know about this? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some girl commented on

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some girl commented on his Tik Tok was like these DJs never

his Tik Tok was like these DJs never dance or maybe it was him. It was like

dance or maybe it was him. It was like Mau P never dances and then he put it up

Mau P never dances and then he put it up like on the screen. It's like Mau P is

like on the screen. It's like Mau P is now dancing and he was just like going

now dancing and he was just like going off.

off. >> Dude, it's it's funny cuz I went to like

>> Dude, it's it's funny cuz I went to like I went to the bathroom before he went on

I went to the bathroom before he went on >> and he walked in as I was like leaving.

>> and he walked in as I was like leaving. I was like he's kind of a kind of a unit

I was like he's kind of a kind of a unit kind of big dude. Got some size on him.

kind of big dude. Got some size on him. >> That's funny.

>> That's funny. >> But it was sick. Our good buddy Diplo

>> But it was sick. Our good buddy Diplo was there.

was there. >> Really? He was doing a set, too. That's

>> Really? He was doing a set, too. That's great. That's awesome.

great. That's awesome. >> We left before he went on, but they were

>> We left before he went on, but they were like going back to back after.

like going back to back after. >> Oh, that's fun, dude. That's fun. This

>> Oh, that's fun, dude. That's fun. This was a This was a super fun episode,

was a This was a super fun episode, though. I think that Eric has so many

though. I think that Eric has so many amazing teachings. I hope that you guys

amazing teachings. I hope that you guys loved those because we did. I I I can't

loved those because we did. I I I can't wait to have these awesome guests keep

wait to have these awesome guests keep coming to the show. I I'll give you guys

coming to the show. I I'll give you guys one little hint, okay? We have one

one little hint, okay? We have one confirmed pod that I know is without a

confirmed pod that I know is without a doubt happening next week, which is with

doubt happening next week, which is with Dan Churchill. He's a chef, which is

Dan Churchill. He's a chef, which is going to be awesome. He's based in New

going to be awesome. He's based in New York City. So, this is going to be a

York City. So, this is going to be a very fun episode. Man, you're talking

very fun episode. Man, you're talking about a guy that's fit. You should take

about a guy that's fit. You should take some notes, man. Me and Dan have a lot

some notes, man. Me and Dan have a lot in common. We're like both very fit

in common. We're like both very fit guys.

guys. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trio, dude. The

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trio, dude. The three musketeers.

three musketeers. That's us. That's what they're going to

That's us. That's what they're going to start calling.

start calling. >> Just the trio. God, it's going to be

>> Just the trio. God, it's going to be fun. But that's all I'll leave you guys

fun. But that's all I'll leave you guys with. I'm super excited. If you're still

with. I'm super excited. If you're still here, please go yo, go check out our

here, please go yo, go check out our newsletter down below. Tobling in the

newsletter down below. Tobling in the description. Writing one of those a

description. Writing one of those a week. Super fun. I'm writing those. So,

week. Super fun. I'm writing those. So, if you hate them, let me know. And we'll

if you hate them, let me know. And we'll see you guys all next week. Love y'all.

see you guys all next week. Love y'all. Rock so much.

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YouTube Transcript:How to Make Your Brand So Magnetic They Stop Scrolling ft. Erica Mallett