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Mind Matters: Mental Health at Work | World Economic Forum Annual Meeting 2025 | World Economic Forum | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Mind Matters: Mental Health at Work | World Economic Forum Annual Meeting 2025
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The discussion highlights the significant and escalating global crisis of mental health at work, emphasizing its profound impact on productivity and the urgent need for systemic solutions that address both workplace-specific stressors and broader societal factors.
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into Cincinnati all right um thanks
everybody for coming and thank you to
everybody uh joining this world economic
Forum on mind matters all around the
world uh on the W's live stream which uh
just began I'm David rhods I'm executive
chairman of the Sky News Group group
based in London and uh a former young
Global leader of the Forum and now on
the forum's international media Council
and I'll be moderating today's session
and we've got an incredible group uh to
weigh in on the topic today which is
mental health at work so first we have
Minister Mady of uh the of South Africa
uh we have Christy Hoffman of the Union
Union based now here in Switzerland
Steve McMillan of H logic and Bill REI
of U uh of
Pinterest um we've talked a lot at the
Forum all week about
productivity and most of us that have
been in these discussions that
productivity dialogue has been about
artificial intelligence in its various
aspects but of course another aspect of
productivity impact by AI but by many
other factors that we're going to get
into today is mental health at work and
that's mind matters that's today's topic
uh The Forum estimates that some one
trillion in productivity loss is
attributable each year to a mental
health issue of some nature at work so
when you think about that one trillion
the billions of hours of uh of lost productivity
productivity
to this situation it really does Merit
the kind of discussion that we're going
to have today but we'll just jump into
that uh in all of its aspects um and
Minister mus lady I want to start with
you you look at this in a public health
context um and there are so many factors
that impact on Mental Health at work
just describe for us a bit thinking
about that public health context what
what are all of those
factors yeah thank you very much uh yes
I I know that the topic is about mental
health at work and
productivity but I I I wish to take it
as a whole because I want to argue that
a mental health at work is just a subset
of the whole mental health problems and unfortunately
unfortunately
I think we are in
trouble big
trouble mental health is a Cinderella of
Health Care
Systems when Health Care Systems get
underfunded the first to be discarded is
mental health we don't start with it in
other words we we'll deal with it if
there is money and having been in health
care for that long I know for sure this
to be a problem the World Health
Organization even called a special
conference I think it's 10 years ago
about mental health we took resolutions
we even developed the program I don't
know in other countries but in my
country I don't think we have even
implemented it this despite the fact
that the problem was recognized long
time ago let me take you
back to 1978 by the way in 1978 our was
a first year medical
student when the World Health
Organization and UNICEF cohosted the
conference on Primary Health
Care in the small town of almaa in the
former Soviet Union where they defined
what health is and can I just add so
were you you were a student at that time
you were watching that from afar
obviously yes and I was very inspired
because I believed what they were saying
which never
happened because they defined Health as
not just the absence of disease or
infirmity but the state of good
physical mental and social wellbeing and
at the moment in many parts of the world
we regard Health as just a good health
as a state of physical well-being full
stop the mental and social part we've
discarded that's what I'm saying when I
said I used to believe but it's not
happening that way
so that is the problem we're faced with
and it's getting worse because of the
stresses of life now
postco is even much much worse it's much worse
worse
postco I don't know in other countries
in my country there's a new issue now of
drugs there's a drug called crystal meth
which kids have gone to it doesn't make
them high it make them go
psychotic yes psychotic yes they go
psychotic they come you know in Chains
and all that so you're covering a few
different things here I think you when
you think about in a public health
context you're thinking about Mental
Health First just acknowledging that
that's a part of Public Health which is
relatively new it is second that there's
a whole context around what's going on
in the community if there are drugs what
are those drugs what are new what are old
old
then there's obviously being able to
fund these Health Systems I just I want
to bring in Steve for a moment because
one thing that you're talking about is
that you say right the first thing to go
are mental health programs and you
oversee a very large Public Health
scenario Steve I think people think of H
logic I know maybe I do as maybe medical
device people maybe people who help
people get a mammog
maybe people who are in that part that
the minister is describing of providing
physical resources for health but you've
been doing some work or maybe
commissioned some uh studies uh
certainly a Gallup survey recently that
tries to get at what the outlines are of
this part of the problem that's not in
the physical yeah it's exactly right and
uh I probably had my eyes open much
later in life than Minister meletti did
uh but about 5 years ago we partnered
with Gallup for those you don't know we
are very focused in uh All Women's
Health breast cancer screening cervical
cancer just about every woman's probably
had uh been touched by our products in
life but after years of discussions
around Women's Health what I realize is
we're a diagnostic company and what gets
measured gets results and there's always
been talk and so we embarked on
something that I actually hope will
become our most profound product ever
and it's one we'll never make any money
on and it's called the G holic Global
Women's Health index now we didn't know
how to do this so we went out and
partnered with Gallup who every year
does the World Poll and so what we've
been doing now for the last four years
we just unveiled the year four report at
Gold's house yesterday is getting
longitudinal data on 142 countries we're
interviewing almost 300,000 people every
year we now have data for four plus years
years
on 142
countries and when they first came back
to me with a questionnaire and this was
by partnering with somebody good you
know we're looking at cancer screenings
high blood pressure screenings all these
kind of stuff and Gallup came back and
said we need to have a major component
on mental health and we even have
questions in this index like I feel safe
walking down the street at
night now to your point you know I had
never thought really about mental health
in that way and it opened my eyes but
what we are absolutely seeing in the in
the data is some emotions like anger and
stress that you mentioned peaked during
covid and they're still elevated but
coming down but the two emotions that
are really rising and far worse today
than then in Pre in pre-co time is
sadness and worry
and when you think about particularly
anxieties worri yes yeah and you know
you think about it I was raised by a
single mom and so I probably have a
unique male uniquely male perspective on
everything that falls on women and I
think in a postco world right it's
always trying to balance everything but
there's still so much that falls on
women and I think the concerns about the
Health Care Systems you know concerns
about rights concerns about everything
have been magnified and so while the
immediate pieces of stress and anger
might be down a touch that sadness and
worry Rising is to me very concerning
very sad in and of itself but also now
we have very clear quantitative data to
show that happening and we're hoping as
we take that to each country they can
start to put action plans so these are
things happening what you're describing
and what the minister is describing in
terms of drug use these are things
happening outside the workplace that
certainly impact how people deal with
this at work and in other
contexts christe you're very focused on
work you you're talking about labor
organization and how uh
employees how employees work but some of
it is work is changing I mean we've
talked about you've talked a lot
about jobs that maybe didn't didn't
exist if not preco certainly in the time
we're describing back to the 70s and
80s what is it about work that is making
this more of an
issue well I think the single biggest
factor in work sort of started pre-co
and really uh became accelerated during
and after covid is the level of
surveillance and pressure for higher
intensity work that is made possible
through the AL rmic management tools um
that we have now so it links back to
technology um and that in general the
pace of work has gone up in so many
places but even if it hasn't people are
surveilled or monitored far more than
they ever were before and again this
accelerated during covid it causes huge
amounts of stress to many workers that's
the number one complaint in so many
workplaces is the level of monitoring
and stress that they experience from
that technology I think another uh type
of employee that's really become
prominent in our work around mental
health are the workers that work in the
data supply chain who do all the content
moderation or that could be an element
of factchecking but it's mostly like
visuals um and you know labeling and so
on in that case that work can be really
really traumatic those workers most of
whom not all are located in the global
South could be looking at hundreds and
hundreds of of videos you know all day
long 5 days a week um which show various
degrees of really harmful violent um and
emotionally impactful content whether it
could be like drowning puppies which
might be the softer choice although all
kinds of animal abuse or torture
beheadings you know violent acts and
they have to label that or you know put
it into a box or a category that's a
place where we're seeing and we work
with a lot of workers in nine countries
um and it does get media attention I
will say it's getting a lot of attention
and we're dealing with employers and
what is the answer in that scenario to
that to that type of work because it
does cause all kinds of
PTSD um people saying their lives are
changed forever even when they go home
they can't really Rel they can't sleep
they can't relate to their family it's
too traumatic so we're looking at what
can the solutions be in that scenario
it's not just enough to say if you need
psychological help we have someone
available you really have to change the
way and part of that is rotating workers
in and out of egregious content so that
nobody's doing one or more than an hour
a day for example of like the really
egregious visuals or reducing the pace
of work you know slowing it down that's
a big factor for those workers as well
um mandatory training because some
people won't come forward and say I want
mental health support or they won't be
given the time off their their job to
get that mental health support they have
to come on their own time so but really
ma making some of that mandatory and so
we're looking at a lot of different p
possible solutions some of which most of
which are not MediCal or you know it's
really about how do we change the work
so that it is less traumatic and cause
and has you know redu and reduced the
impact I want to get to Bill on a couple
of topics but we should talk about in
you mentioned the global South being a
place where many of these for instance
content moderation jobs are jobs that
didn't used to exist that could have
these kinds of
implications now exist now South Africa
has often on various issues spoken a bit
for the global South in terms of
representing what the situation is so
take us inside the communities that you
represent and how how is work Chang how
is work changing how is work different
for instance from when you were studying
medicine very different yeah
look where I started on the general
situation and say mental health work at
work is a
subset it it will be unlikely if in that
country mental health is not a big issue
in the Health Care System it will be
unlikely that you will find it better at
work because it starts with the overall
healthare system system I know in my
country it's compulsory to have a health
and wellness units people who are
trained in health
awareness in in in every government
department at least we're encouraging it
even outside government in the private
sector but when you look into what they
doing it will be mostly physical
well-being right because the overall
issue of mental wellbeing they don't
even think about it you know that's
exactly what I was saying say because
then even the number of
trained health I mean mental health care
workers will increase accordingly if if
the budget allows it but what I was
saying is well and if Steve's figures
are right we're going to need yeah
actually if you want to look for sectors
I mean we're going to need more people
sounds like to address this yes yes
definitely Bill you're a bit on sort of
both sides of the trade in the sense of
you provide what I would say just as a
user is a little bit of a happier place
online than maybe the one Christie just
described but equally you're trying to
manage a large and dispersed Workforce
that probably has different expectations
of the workplace today than when many of
us got in the workplace yesterday
certainly well a couple things I'd say
to maybe hit both sides of that you know
um there's multiple examples of talking
about well you know as we're talking
about mental health in the workplace
well people come to work with all these
pressures and you know uh sort of
circumstances that they're dealing with
outside the workplace that comes to work
as well um caregiving
responsibilities um you know uh you know
these kinds of things and so with
Pinterest we've really made uh you know
proving a more positive business model
for social media Central to our reason
for being uh you know there's a there's
a youth Mental Health crisis that's
happening and I think it's actually
brought than just youth um and a big
part of that has been fueled by social
media and the toxicity that has become
Central to uh so much of the business
model and social media so is it because
they weren't as young people prepared
for it when they confronted it or is it
just the nature of these Platforms in
general I think that it's it's it's
multifaceted um I would say that you
know if I step all the way back from it
you know rewind the clock when did
social media start to become more toxic
it's when it switched from being a
chronological feed of what our friends
posted which if you think back when it
was that most people felt like oh it's
helping democracies rise up and it's
helping us become closer to our
neighbors um and uh uh and you know
reconnect with you know long lost
connections that we hadn't seen since
high school or college or whenever and
then one day it flipped and you know I
think that flip a lot of that was about
AI being put in charge of what you see
uh in that feed instead of being a
chronological feed of what your friends
post it became a feed of what the AI
thought would make you watch the longest
uh and we talk a lot about AI you know
these last few years but it's really a
decade plus since ai's been in charge of
what you see in those feeds and the AI
figured out pretty quickly that you you
look longer at the things that are
triggering for you whatever your trigger
is um uh and you know whether it's you
know that politician that gets you
really fired up or whether it's somebody
else's fake life that you can't possibly
live up to you're you know you're
looking at somebody else's highlight
reel but comparing your everyday life to
someone else's highlight reel you know
this this effect has been in place for
you know a decade Plus in building so I
think that's really driven a lot of the
Mental Health
crisis um and so you one of the things
we want to do with Pinterest is well
prove there's a different business model
in that if sort of Engagement via
enragement and these kinds of things
have become Central to the business
model of social media in so many ways
can we prove a different business model
more one that is centered on positivity
and one that can make
measurably positive contributions to
emotional well-being and I can talk more
about it but the headline is we've
proven that's possible we certainly
haven't solved it all but we've proven
it's possible if you could tune the AI
to maximize view time you had all these
negative externalities that led to
Mental Health crisis can you tune it to
be more positive can you tune it to make
people feel better and we've proven
that's possible now there's a lot more
of that to do we've proven that's
possible um but the part of that is also
how do we create a really inspired
engaged Workforce that's also dealing
with these things and so mental health
in the workforce matters a lot to us as
well so let's come back we'll come back
to the workforce Point as uh as you've
experienced at Pinterest but I wonder if
some of it is chrisy talking about Ai
and how over time that influences the
models of what people see influences
political speech influences
everything is one thing that you're
confronting well you come into these
workforces that you're describing Try to
Make a Better
situation but is the alternative to that
well we just won't have those workers at
all we'll try to get the AI to do it in
other words is there a potential unintended
unintended
consequence uh as it relates to those I
mean groups I think in terms of content
moderation it's not really uh a little
bit some companies you I won't say names
but have been really pressured from
public pressure because exposure to this
is quite oh my God that's awful you know
they've had that exposure and they've
said well then we just won't do it and
that's not the answer because we need
content moderation we the fact that a AI
could potentially screen out some of the
more egregious and hopefully over time
that will happen but that still doesn't
I we should want that to happen I mean
that that's not off the table and I
think even the companies who are large
usually you know bpos that do all kinds
of like let's say customer service work
and content moderation data labeling um
you know they they would say well
eventually this problem will go away
because the more egregious stuff will be
you know taken out by Ai and maybe
that's true but so far that hasn't
really happened despite the promise and
the answer to say well we just won't do
it because content moderators make
mistakes this could be also you know
another argument but but guess what they
you know I think the number that's
recently been used in the media is they
20% mistakes well you could improve upon
that if the working conditions were
better but minister is there a tradeoff
particularly in communities that you
would be familiar with and have talked
about is there a trade-off between like
we need the jobs I mean some of these
jobs are hard and expose people to
difficult conditions but of course you
know we're we're not dealing in a
perfect world where there's unlimited
number of employment
options no no no I I don't understand
that very
well I'm just saying from a government
standpoint we we want employment we want
Economic Opportunity for people we're
finding people go to work the workplace
is a different place than it used to be
it imposes mental health challenges what
are the
trade-offs well at the moment that's why
it it will differ from
developed I mean from developing
countries to developed ones right in a
developing country what you want is a
job regardless of what type of a job
that comes first there's no time of it's
a bit like your hierarchy of physical
health mental like I just I want a job
in fact unemployment itself can cause
serious mental stress just just being
unemployed and and in my country that I
can assure you is what's going on
because just sing sitting and idling
there especially if you have studied
with a belief that you're going to have
a better life and you don't have a job
that in itself causes mental health
problems so if any jobs come by you
won't think about the complexities or
complications of that job you'll rush
into it if there's a problem you'll
solve it there at work that's what I'm
trying to say so it might be that in
highly developed countries what they
worry about is what type of job whether
it will induce stress and all that
that's not what is deping in lwi income
countries can I jump in here because we
represent content moderators in nine
countries most of which are not in the
global not in Europe not in the United
States and the complaints are very loud
and clear coming from these countries
that this is not a job that I could stay
in that this is you know there's no
reason this is not really a big cost
item this is about like a slight
rearrangement to work reorganizing work
this is not something that's going to
put the
clients that that are getting this work
done you know the big tech companies you
know it's not harming their bottom line
to make this work acceptable I mean this
is a human right to have a health and
safety health and I understand that
there are different levels trigger
points you know depending on how
desperately you want the job but it is
still a big complaint and it doesn't
need to be bill you have I think it's
fair to say a developed World Workforce
what are their what are their
expectations yeah so you know a few
things I'd say you know as as we've you
know really over the last two and a half
years Revitalize the company with you
know uh you know emotional well-being
you know a more positive uh business
model for social media at the at the
core of our reason for being we've made
a lot of progress on that but a
revitalized Workforce has been a big
part of that so some of the things that
we have done there you know we think
about future of work you know there's a
few things we think about one um you
know you know there needs to be flexib
right um uh and come back and talk about
we done with our pimplex program that
has really created flexible work
Arrangements that really helps for you
know more people to be able to engage
more the best and brightest to be able
to engage from all different backgrounds
um you know providing the flexibility
needed for uh those who are caregivers
um which by the way disproportionate um
disproportionately you see you know
women and underrepresented groups carry
disproportionate amounts of caregiving
um and so providing better flexibility
has also let us be more attractive to a
more diverse Workforce which has
actually you know been part of you know
we believe deeply part of our
reacceleration as a business and our our
Workforce has been delivering really
great results so flexibility is one um
second I would say is that future
oriented people want to see career
growth and Pathways and you know how
there's a future for their job and I
think a lot of discussions around AI
talk about well jobs are going to go
away versus well you know AI can
actually create a lot of new ways to do
really interesting new things and so
making sure there's a future orientation
for career growth and then thirdly uh I
would say is just you know it needs to
be fulfilling and you know fulfilling
can happen in lots of different ways but
I think people want to work on something
that matters and there's lots of
different ways to find things that
people can connect with but you know we
saw that as we made um you know
positivity Central to our reason for being
being
and really connected that with a bigger
purpose that's really you know I think
enlivened our Workforce even more that
they feel like they're working on
something that really matters and doing
something that has impact far beyond our
walls but I think you know that can be
at any organization so if you can have
flexibility you know future orientation
and fulfillment these things can really
drive real impact um and particularly
this one on flexibility where I think
there's a there's a change in Direction
there particularly around like forced
mandates back to office and things like
that and you know we're seeing that as
we've provided flexibility one it's been
a great attractor of talent particularly
of diverse talent but it's also driving
collaboration as well we see that those
that take advantage of our penflex
program are disproportionately engaged
in collaborative work which is
completely counter to the narrative that
you can't collaborate if you're not in
person but we do have a mixed model
there's some in person some remote um
now Minister mood will lady would remind
you that in all that developed roal
context still nothing competes for many
people with just having a job at all and
I think that's that's your point about
the the the imposed costs of just
unemployment on Mental Health in
Security in various ways yes that's what
I'm saying and and I think maybe we we
are agreeing but just at different
levels because my argument is
unemployment itself yeah is a big big stressor
stressor
and that you'll find more of that in a
developing country now once you get that
job is then that all
these problems come in to see whether
this is the type of job I've want
whether I've got any options which I can
study it comes later well one important
factor in that Steve do the numbers show
either your numbers that you're talking
about today I would think maybe in both
contexts that women are more risk to
these factors yes yes consistently you
know what's also interesting is we we
interview men in a lot of these things
and you get differences particular
things like U uh domestic violence and
of course the perception of men versus
women in so many of these areas is as to
whether it's not as big of an issue um
so you do see consistently on so many of
the mental health aspects women are
seeing it is a bigger deal than men and
I think
ultimately probably is a head notter to
many people but it's nice to have the
day I mean I think the uh the worry
index is up to 42% of all women in the
world and that's are saying they
experience significant periods of worry
every day and the number and the latest
one for sadness and again the question
is written you know do you experience
this for significant parts of a day is
up to 30% for women chrisy who do people
in the workforce whether there's a
gender divide or not who do they think
it's the respons their responsibility to
solve these
problems is that companies is that is
that governments who is it I mean I I I
think if if people identify that they
have a work related problem they expect
their employer to help them solve it or
they blame their their employer um you
know it it could be different sources of
anxiety or depression but you know at
the end of the day for work related um
mental health issues it is on the
employer to figure out some kind of
solution and I think that employers also
need to identify that as I think someone
said at the early stages it's a it's an
economic issue for employers the deoe
did it do did a study that found for
every $1 invested in mental health
there's a $5 Improvement in attendance
um and you know productivity so I think
it's really not just a question of um PE
workers have problems and they expect
their employers to fix it it's in the
employer's interest to create a work
environment that addresses you need some
measurement yeah yeah and I I would
strongly agree with that the thing I
would add is that I think while an
employer has you know both a
responsibility in some ways as well as a
real benefit if you can address these
things um I also think though you have
to start with the recognition that you
don't have all the answers and engage
deeply with communities that are
affected to find those answers so some
examples that I would give um you have a
caregivers group and so I talked about
some of what we've done around you know
flex flexible work Arrangements that you
know um are helping those that carry you
know caregiving uh burdens um or
caregiving responsibilities um but we've
also you know heard through that you
know ways that we can expand our
benefits programs that would be helpful
uh for caregivers but we've actually
done this across as we've driven uh you
know greater inclusion in our Workforce
we have what we call P inclusion groups
that you know are groups of employees
that can come together that you know are
you know uh you know share similarities
and things that they're facing and can
talk about not only what they're facing
but actually creates Forum to talk about
you know how can we how can we help to
solve these things
and that's a forum where sort of folks
can come together to talk about you know
real issues but also to talk about well
how can we work together to make
progress on those issues because we
don't have all the answers we need to
engage deeply with communities that do
even the work I was mentioning on um you
know our our our mental health programs
um you know not just for our Workforce
but you know across those that that use
our platform uh We've engaged deeply
with those that are in the mental health
community and that's actually led to a
lot of some of them here in the room um
uh you that has actually led to a lot of
the insights that have informed actions
that we have taken so I think you know
one you've got to start with
acknowledging there is a mental health
crisis that's happening you know two how
do you engage you know with with you
know lots of folks that are trying to
solve this and coming with different
angles but then three how do we think
about different effects on different
communities and different parts of the
population and different answers we
might need for different parts of the
population different communities but I
think you have to engage deeply with
those communities to get those answers
because employers don't have all of them
but we can participate in them if we if
we engage more closely with those
communities yeah I just going to mention
a paradox and it's a question that's
I've had kind of looking through the
data for us maybe all to think about but
the the Paradox that I'm finding is as
particularly in more developed markets
where we've gone to a lot of remote work
and we're a company that's actually just
been flexible I think we were one of the
most flexible companies preco we're
probably considered less flexible now we
never did any mandates of anything
around work and office or anything else
but what I'm finding very interesting
and my children are 23 to 34 so if you
think in in that group is so many folks
who say they want to work
remotely but I worry are getting
incredibly lonely they're feeling like
they're connected and they're saying yes
and I think the loneliness is feeding
into the sadness worry in a weird in a
profound way and I think about it this
is too simple drug use and other other
bad yeah it's way too simple analogy but
if you ask kids you know they they want
sugar right they want candy bars okay
well I want to work from home but it
might not be the best for you right like
eating healthy and so there's you know
is there some somewhere in between that
you know I'm not saying work in the
office all the time but I think complete
remote work I worry is actually
extending this we don't have that in the
data but it was a question that kind of
jumped into my head we've got about 10
minutes we and I want everybody to get a
chance to sum up but I also sense that
we've got a little bit of vibration in
the room of people who want to put
questions to uh our panel today and so
we should we should get to some of those
including two in the front row so you
guys decide who wants to go first great
thanks and oh please just uh also for
the benefit of the live stream just
identify yourself and however you want
to uh mention your affiliation
absolutely so my name is Alicia London
I'm the CEO at prospa Global we
exclusively work on mental health
strategies for companies investors
philanthropists but I'm also a young
Global leader so great to see other y's
in the room um the question I wanted to
ask well just uh for some context I I'm
often approached by CEO's leadership
with a question of I just don't know
what to do about this it's a really
complex issue I I have to say Pinterest
has been extraordinary and really deeply
engaging with communities yeah and
really understanding this um and and
that's quite rare so most leadership
will come and say where do I start
there's a list of a hundred things I
think even some Advocates are you know
and I come previously from an advocacy
World wanting to do the hundred things
and we'll rate you up well um so one of
the things we've done is created an
audit assessment a diagnostic for
companies based in
countries um and different Industries
around where the biggest risks and
opportunities are to help narrow that
down um do you think that kind of thing
is helpful so we can measure it properly
and give baselines are there other tools
that would be helpful um would be great
to hear as As Leaders what would be
helpful for you and then just one thing
I wanted to share because you brought up
my favorite current topic on
expectations one of our assessments we
see this quite a lot and we just pulled
us um workers in in December and found
that 50% of employees in the US believed
it's a company's responsibility to cause
them no
stress no stress and and so actually I
think there's a real challenge there for
Business Leaders to un not just meet
expectations but not just maybe give the
sugar um analogy um is that a challenge
it obviously varies both region um how
do we reset healthy psychological
contracts between workers and employees
in a way that does bring the benefits
we're looking for all right two
questions there who wants to
start I mean I I can say we also have an
assessment tool that we would recommend
to our Union shop stewards and so on or
to you know unions that are coping with
problems and and you know one clear
measure is just how many people are
absent due to burnout or some other work
rated stress and I think that that's an
indicator um but there's also um some
basic factors such as how precarious is
the job and this goes back to your point
that not having a job is incredibly
stressful so if you're working in an
environment where you're on a two-month
contract or you know it's not what you
would consider to be a secure job
there's a lot of workplace changes
taking place and you're not involved in
it you're not part of the discussion I
mean we would have an assessment tool I
think that's you know and these were the
elements that we would be looking at
that would normally stress out any
worker and then some would react
differently than others so I I think
that's a a fair a fair point and as to
your point about expectations which I
think is really more closely identified
with younger workers and you know I also
have a 27 yearold and a 30-year-old at
home and I don't know what to say to
that because I do really believe that
it's a problem and this idea that you've
grown up thinking work is a place of
meaning and you know but nobody wants to
do work that's horrible you know I I
that's that's a longer conversation I
think everybody's dealing with across
Generations that that um you know I I
could tell you some of the things that I
say to my too but I wouldn't want to say
it in this room
probably they might be watching they
might be watching and you know no I mean
just I don't have that much patience for
it but yeah let's uh let's come here so
my name is deani pavar I'm a global
shaper from baramati India and I
represent the grassroot communities
because our Hub is the first rural hub
from India my question is a mix of what
he said that um unemployment is the
biggest concern in terms of mental
health and also I would like to uh talk
about Pinterest as well so I just want
to correlate both of these things when I
talk about grassroot communities there
are so many self-help groups so many
people uh trying to find Opportunities
to grow and kind of reinvent the things
which they do so uh in terms of
unemployment and seeking Inspirations
from Pinterest how can we bridge the gap
between because Pinterest is uh
perceived as very Urban platform right
but uh it has such an incredible way of
inspiring people to start new things
right and how can it be implemented in
Grassroots because it will solve
unemployment issues with happen over
there yeah um well thank you um and
that's quite intentional on our part
that we I talked about not tuning just
for maximizing view time and tuning for
positivity part of what we found that
leads to positivity is if you can
actually help people to fulfill intent
to go find ways to go take action in the
real world to do something and so I
think a lot of these uh feelings of you
know hopelessness and sadness are much
more profound when there's you know when
you feel like it's sort of happening to
you and there's nothing that you can do
and so one of the things we see is that
um you know as we've looked at the
rising rates of anxiety and depression
and all these things that and we look at
tuning for positivity well so much of
that is actually helping people engage
in something that's going to be a
productive outcome for them and it
almost doesn't matter what is that
productive outcome you can choose your
own creative Endeavor but finding
something that has a productive outcome
is actually a great Rel belief of stress
and and so part of what we do on our
platform is try to help people get from
inspiration to action ability because we
see that that action again whatever it
is for for you actually goes from the
feeling of hopelessness and things
happening to you to I'm doing something
and even if that something isn't
necessarily self-help directly but I'm
just doing something that is worthwhile
that makes me feel good whether it's
figuring out how to put together that
outfit that's going to make me walk a
little taller or how I'm going to you
know the meal I'm going to prepare to
bring my family and friends together and
what that's going to mean or just how I
redo the room so it's a better place to
get the people I love to gather um these
are all just very productive outlets and
so I think that is um you know so much
of our sort of social media content
consumption has been around view time
maximization you know we're looking at
how do we create outcomes in the real
world so that people are getting real
world connection real world actions and
these things we do see and and and
there's lots of research on this
these things do lead to more feelings of
positivity because it's it's it's active
and productive versus sort of sitting
back and feeling that things are
happening to you we may have time for
one more if we have one more right by
the microphone than um my name is ien
and I'm from Indonesia I work in
education uh I heard that we talk about
uh social media as one of the the the
the what the trigger or the you know of
this all mental mental health problem
but is there a bigger problem in the
younger generation such as mindset I
mean I heard that uh someone said that
uh I think you mentioned about employees
saying that they they expect a uh work
that is not stressful and I think that
will make it even more stressful in my
opinion okay so is there a bigger
problem than that which is the mindset
and if so uh being in education I think
I want to ask how do we help this uh
prepare this younger generation they
will face more challenges in the you
know ahead maybe not social media but
whatever but how do we prepare them so
that they're more resilient and not fall
into the Trap or the pathway of that
mental health problem eventually
Minister I'm going to put you on the
spot because you have a very
young population by comparison certainly
with many uh many of the other uh States
represented and so how do you see how do
you see that are their expectations
different than for instance when you
went off to medical school oh
absolutely the kids are not like us
absolutely and and yes and and when you
tell them about resilience and they tell
you that was during your time that was
yes they want everything rolling in on a
silver plot definitely I mean I discuss
these things with my kids and tell them
how you know and they tell you that that
was during your time now
your father was poor and doing that to
you and you are rich now and you can
offer me everything I want so we we not
the same and and I'm worried I see a lot
of energy drinks used by our kids almost
on a daily basis it worries me because I
don't think they're healthy so it is
definitely a generational problem I I
don't have answers on on how yeah
because even now during my time when I
was a young doctor you know you know not
very young but at the age of 26 I could
work for many hours on end in a rural
hospital with no other doctor it doesn't
happen now you find a hospital with many
many young doctors but complaining of
overwork and blaming government this
government is useless and all that and
you can't even tell them I used to work
for 16 hours in a La nonstop and I
thought it was normal and I think it
developed me believe you me there's no
youngster who will tolerate that now so
you know no way you know Bill Steve
Christie Minister um yeah my day job I'm
a journalist I think our headline is the
kids are not like us
right if I was right in the but thank
you all for these insights thanks
everybody for participating in the
conversation uh the hashtag is we 25 and
uh thank you for coming today thank you
for watching [Applause]
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