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Post Falls Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting - July 29, 2025

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Call the meeting to order. Please rise

>> To the flag of the United States of

America and to the republic for which it

stands. One nation under God,

indivisible, with liberty and justice

Hi, good evening everyone. Welcome to

the July 29th planning and zoning

commission meeting.

Start with roll call. >> Carrie

>> Carrie

>> here. Bimble >> present.

>> present. >> Stephenson

>> Stephenson >> here.

>> here. >> Wilhham

>> Wilhham >> here.

>> here. >> Shriber

>> Shriber >> here.

>> here.

Any ceremonies, announcements,

appointments, or presentations tonight?

>> There's none.

any declarations of conflict, exparte

contacts or site visits?

>> I I had somebody a couple weeks ago come

to my house and they were talking I they

were talking about the Spokane Street

and Graange area. I don't even know

which property and some vote coming up.

He was really nice. I told him he had to

come to the planning and zoning to

handle that. Uh but but he he wasn't

aggressive or anything. Um, just wanted

to say his piece. He did say I was the

only commissioner that knew what they

were doing. Everybody else might take

>> That's right. That's it. Uh with regards

to our second public hearing at the G2,

um I'm the engineer for the Ross Point

Water District and so I wanted to

disclose that we've had I've had some

conversations uh with regards or with

the applicant with regards to water man

size in Horse Haven. And so that's

supposed to be to let everyone know

it'll be a 12 in water mane. Um and so

but of course that doesn't really change

the outcome of anything here tonight.

So, um, just wanted to disclose that so

everybody knew what I've heard and note.

>> Okay. Thank you.

All right. Uh,

consent calendar.

>> There is nothing on it.

>> There is nothing on it. All right.

Citizen issues. This, uh, section of the

agenda is reserved for citizens wishing

to address the commission on an item

that is not on the agenda tonight.

Persons wishing to speak will have five

minutes. Anybody have anything they want

to talk about tonight that's not on the agenda?

agenda?

All right, seeing none, we'll move right

along to unfinish or old business.

>> We had nothing on there as well.

>> All right.

Okay. Jump right into public hearings

tonight. If you do want to do uh some

public testimony for any one of these

hearings, make sure you fill out the

paperwork in the back. bring that up

front to Nancy up here and we'll work

through this and you'll have four

minutes of that time. I'll explain how

that'll work once we get to that point.

First hearing tonight is River City

corner special use permit and

subdivision and we'll open up that hearing.

Good evening planning commission. My

name is Justin Solder and tonight before

us we have River City Corners which is

an application for a special use permit

The applicant is requesting approval to

subdivide approximately 4.06 acres into

five commercial lots within the limited

commercial zone and a special use permit

to develop a convenience store with fuel

pumps on one of the proposed parcels. Here

Here

is the project site in red on the

northeast corner of Poland Avenue and

Greens Fairy Road. The project site is

mainly surrounded by residential

development to the northwest and east

with an elementary school directly to

the south. The current land use on site

is a large lot single family residence

Here is the zoning of the subject site.

You can see it's limited commercial as

well as the surrounding parcels which

And first we will talk about the

subdivision plan. So here you can see

there are five different lots proposed

outlined in yellow. There is one

entrance and exit to the project site on

Pine Avenue and there will be another

one on Greens Ferry.

Lot three contains the existing single

family residence and lot three is also

where the convenience store and fuel

pumps will be proposed and we'll get

into those a little later.

So we will go over the review criteria

for the subdivision first. Criteria one

is definite provisions have been made

for water supply system that is adequate

in terms of quantity and quality for the

type of subdivision proposed.

Ross Point Water District has provided a

will serve letter indicating that there

is sufficient capacity and intent to

serve the proposed subdivision.

For criteria two, adequate provisions

have been made for public sewage systems

and that the existing municipal system

can accommodate the proposed sewer

flows. The city has adequate capacity to

provide service to the subdivision as

proposed and the conceptual layout of

the sewer system shows the ability to be served.

Number three, the proposed streets are

consistent with the transportation

element of the comprehensive plan. The

proposed layout of the subdivision is

consistent with the transportation

master plan. Each parcel will be

responsible for maintenance of

landscaping and irrigation as well as

snow removal from public rights of way

adjoining the project site. And there

will also be a relocation of traffic

signal on the northeast corner of Greens

Fairy and Pole Line that will be

coordinated with the developer and the

city through the site plan review process.

All areas of the proposed subdivision

which may involve soil or topographical

topographical conditions presenting

hazards have been identified and that

the proposed uses of these areas are

compatible with such conditions. Um

there are no known soil or topographic

conditions which have been identified as

presenting hazards. There are on-site

septic systems that will be removed upon

development and the Philips 66 pipeline

does run through the proposed

subdivision and there will be a 50-foot

easement proposed over the pipeline that

would be maintained as open space and we

will take a look at this in closer

The area proposed for subdivision is

zoned for the proposed use and the use

conforms to other requirements found in

the code. The subdivision and the

proposed lots conform to the

requirements of title 17 and 18 of the

postfalls municipal code. In addition,

the proposed convenience store with fuel

pumps is an allowed use with the

approval of a special use permit. So, if

the special use permit is approved, this

the proposed subdivision would be

consistent and conforming with the

limited commercial zone and the proposed use.

use.

And finally, for criteria six, impact

fees will be assessed and collected on

individual building permit basis to

assist in mitigating off-site impacts to

parks, public safety, streets,

multimmoal, EMS, and fire systems services.

Here again is the subdivision and again

I just wanted to point out lot three

because that is where we are going to be

focusing on for the special use permit. Here

Here

is the proposed conceptual plan for the

special use permit. Um, you can see that

the main building for the convenience

store is toward the east and the fuel

island and fuel tanks are in the center

of the site and further west. The fuel

Um, you you can also see here the

entrance and exit on Pline Avenue and

then lot three will also be accessible

off of Greens Ferry Road when the full

Now, we will go over the review criteria

for the special use permit. For number

one, implementation of the special use

will or will not conform to the purposes

of the applicable zoning districts. The

limited commercial zone permits

neighborhood compatible commercial

resilo services and uses of modest scale

in areas not conveniently served by

existing or proposed commercially

designated land. A convenience store is

an outright permitted use within the LC

zone, but the proposal of fuel pumps

requires the approval of the special use

permit. The proposed use may provide

some daily needs to the surrounding

residential subdivisions and both Greens

Fairy and Pole line are minor arterials

which can accommodate the anticipated

traffic volumes associated with the gas

station and convenience store.

For number two, we touched on this

briefly already um that a convenience

store is an allowed use by right in the

limited commercial zone. However, a

convenience store with fuel pumps is an

allowable use with the approval of a

special use permit. And that's what you

can see here in the chart from the

For review criteria number three, the

convenience store will be required to

comply with the Department of

Environmental Quality, Coupney County

Fire and Rescue, and the site plan

review process to mitigate risk

associated with the sale and storage of

petroleum products. And through the site

plan review process, a buffer will be

required between the commercial use and

the surrounding residential use to help

reduce potential nuisances such as

noise, light, and odor through setbacks

and landscaping.

Continuing on, criteria three, we'll

talk about transportation. The city's

transportation capital improvement plan

or sorry, the proposed special use is

not anticipated to produce impacts that

would adversely impact adjoining

transportation systems. The current

roadway network has capacity in the

immediate vicinity to facilitate

long-term traffic operations with the

improvements that are proposed or

required as part of the site

development. And the proposed project

will require roadway widening and the

relocation of traffic signals at the

intersection of Pole Line and Greens Fairy.

Fairy.

For water, the site will be connected to

the city's water reclamation facilities

which have capacity to handle the

project. Existing septic systems on site

will be decommissioned and appropriate

sewer fees and connections would be

identified and completed in the site

plan review process. And the city sewer

system has capacity to serve the

convenience store and gas station. For

water, as mentioned previously, Ross

Point has submitted a will serve letter.

And there are existing facilities in

For criteria four, whether the proposed

use will or will not comply with the

goals and policies found within the

comprehensive plan. So now we'll go over

some of those goals and policies. For

goal one, business development at this

location capitalizes on access to

neighborhood commercial opportunities

and may provide opportunities for

employment and services in proximity to

residential uses which may be seen as

providing community prosperity and

fiscal health for goal. Goal three

identifies lowercale walkable small lot

development as being tied to Postfall's

small town scale and feel. And the

proximity of smallcale commercial

services and proximity to residential

zones promotes walkability in this area

and may contribute to the overall small

For goal six, the development of this

parcel would be considered as infill

development and would bring the adjacent

multimmoal transportation infrastructure

up to current standards, including in

street improvements, bike lanes, and

pedestrian pathways. The missing

improvements are a priority need for

access to the school to the south side

of Poline. And we'll get into this more

as well with some photos um on a future

slide. For goal 12, the development of

the property will contribute to the

city's public infrastructure

improvements through payment of impact

fees. And in addition, business

development contributes to overall

fiscal resiliency within the community

Now for some of the policies support

land use patterns. Impact fees will help

maintain or enhance community levels of

service and the proposed business

development contributes to fiscal resiliency

resiliency

as cars are the dominant mode of

transportation within the community.

Petroleum products are a needed

resource. In addition, convenience

stores may provide a number of food and

household products that can be seen as a

valuable resource in the immediate

vicinity. There are no other gas

stations or grocery stores within 3/4

mile of the project site. Also, the

completion of missing segments of

pedestrian and vehicular facilities will

aid with maintaining and enhancing the

level of service for transportation in

this area.

In order to ensure that the development

will be well designed, the project is

subject to the city site plan review

process and required to conform with

both city and state standards. And

through that process, we can also help

ensure the gas station will remain a

compatible use with the surrounding

residential areas by imple implementing

design standards such as buffers and

Here we have a graphic that shows the

project site in the middle of this red

circle. And the circle is approximately

one mile. And this is just representing

where other facilities um that might be

similar to this are within the area. So

to the east at the intersection of

Poland and Highway 41, there is a KICO,

a 7-Eleven, which are both gas stations,

and a grocery outlet, and they're just

about one mile away. The next closest

facility would be located at Walmart

further south on Mullen Aav. And as you

can see, it's just outside of the onem

radius. This graphic can also help

illustrate how the development could be

perceived to fall in line with the small

town feel of Post Falls. Rather than

residents driving out to Highway 41 for

small convenience items, there is

potential to walk within a neighborhood

Policy 3, five, and 8. Um, we have the

convenience store and gas station may

provide daily needs within close

proximity to the neighboring residential

subdivisions. And the site is near the

intersection of Poleine and

Greensferryy, which are both arterial

roads, minor arterials, and the subject

site is an underutilized property and

Policy 25, 26, and 27 are all very

related and talking about improving the

continuity of sidewalks and improving

the overall connectivity of

transportation and pedestrian pathways.

And so development of this property will

include improvements such as a 10-ft

multi-use trail along Pole Line and a

six-foot sidewalk along Greens Ferry and

uh bike lane as well.

Here is a overview of the project site.

And here I just wanted to show that

there are sidewalks on both Greens Ferry

and Pole Line represented with the

orange or yellowish line and then they

stop at the subject site. With this

project being built out, sidewalk would

be continued represented by the red dash

line all the way along the project site.

And now you would have all four corners

being improved and people be able to

walk, you know, from the east on Greens

Ferry all the way to the corner and then

south on Poline or on the same for

Greens Fairy just coming down south on

Pole Line.

Here's another photo kind of showing

that. Here we're on Greens Ferry looking

north. The project site is on the

northeast corner and hopefully you can

kind of see that three of the four

corners are improved with site

improvements. Um, and with this project,

that fourth corner would be improved as well.

well.

Here's a couple more. On the left, we

have Greens Ferry looking south towards

the project site. And if you can see,

there's sidewalk at the base of this

white fence that then dead ends to the

project site. This would be continued

all the way down to the intersection.

And then same on the right photo here,

we have this uh trail that is deadending

into the project site. And this is

looking on pole line west towards the intersection.

Policy 43 talks about uh compliance with

accessibility requirements in accordance

with the American with the Disabilities

Act. So development of the property

would include improvements to the

pedestrian paths as we've just talked

about in compliance with ADA and then

through the site plan review process. Um

all the on-site improvements would be in

compliance with ADA standards as well.

67 promote linking green belts, trails,

and open spaces. We've also kind of

talked to this one. Um, but the

multi-use trail included on pole line

will connect pathways from the site from

the subject site to the neighborhood as

well as the sidewalk on Greens Fairy.

Here is a list of all the agencies that

were notified of the project. And out of

those agencies, we received six

responses. The school district remains

neutral. Kney County Fire and Rescue

will review the project during

permitting or the site plan review

process. Kney County Community

Development did not have any comments.

Postf Falls Police Department remains

neutral. The Yellowstone pipeline does

have vicinity uh facilities within the

project site which we will talk about.

And then for Department of Environmental

Quality, they have specific requirements

for underground storage tanks. And in

their comments, they wanted to put

emphasis on the importance of following

best management practices for petroleum

Here we have the pipeline represented

with a red line. As you can see, it

follows Pole Line and then jogs out onto

the project site through the neighboring

subdivision to the east and then

eventually makes its way back down onto

P line.

And here's the subdivision. So this

green area in the middle of the site

that runs diagonally is actually where

the easement over the pipeline is

proposed. And this is a 50ft easement.

So 25 ft on either side of the pipeline.

And this would be this would remain as

open space.

And then again just to show where the

pipeline is here is the conceptual site

plan for the convenience store. And you

can see that the pipeline is or the fuel

island and the fuel tanks are well out

of the way of where the easement for the

pipeline is currently.

Here's the subdivision review criteria

so we can just have a reference to

review them and the special use permit

review criteria. And then the last thing

I wanted to mention is that upon

granting a special use, the commission

may attach conditions including uh but

not limited to the following here on screen.

screen.

So, that concludes my presentation. I'm

available for questions if you have any.

>> Any questions?

>> Do have a quick one. Um, can you go back

to the site plan, please?

There we go.

Um, I see in the green there that the on

the looks like the east side there's

some buffering. It looks like that green

area, it looks like it's about 20 feet.

Can you speak to what kind of buffering

and landscaping is required to go in

that area? Sure. The requirement is 15

feet and then they have trees and shrubs

that are required at certain intervals.

Um I don't know what all those intervals

are off hand but the buffer itself is a

minimum of 15 ft. What they're actually

depicting here is 15 ft. So then you can

see the building is even set back a

little further from the 15t buffer.

>> Okay. Okay. And the purpose of that is

just so I understand it is to screen

adjoining properties from

>> it's a separation of uses specifically

between a residential single family

residential and commercial uses.

>> So it's a landscape screen basically.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> What's your distance from the back of

the the um convenience store to the

properties in the back?

>> Uh I do not know that offhand. And so

and this um just would be landscape >> correct

>> correct

>> screening also

>> on the east side

>> on the um >> north

>> north

>> north side

>> where the pipeline is. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um

>> Um

>> but there's properties beyond that res

resial north of lot four.

>> North of lot four. Yeah I can go back to

that as well. Yeah. There's landscaping

that 15oot buffer would be all the way

around the project site on the north and

east from the res single family

>> Um am I correct in that Philip 66 and

YPL are the same line?

>> That is my understanding. Correct. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So they're talking about setting

back from that.

Okay. And then um the pedestrian path

that comes along pole line right now

dead ends into that well that's right

there. It's not on this property, but

it's right at that corner. It's shown on

the site plan.

What's the thought process on how to

connect the sidewalk

on this site and that the existing

sidewalk without going through the well?

>> Uh where is the is that a question for

the developer?

>> It might be Rob Paulus might be able to

answer that. >> Okay.

When you were looking at that one

picture looking down pole line, you see

the wellhead and the fence that

surrounds that well.

>> That's right.

>> What you're talking about?

>> Yep. See the the red and white fence there?

there? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Good evening, members of the commission.

Robert Paul, a city engineer. So, we did

take a look at that with the developer

during the preliminary application

process. Um I that well that's there

ideally we would like to see it go away

but there is still users of that well to

the north. Uh there is room and the

lower right P

actually the lower right picture does

not depict it well enough but there is

room that in what would uh typically be

the swale area that the sidewalk or

multi-use path in this case can wrap

around and not get into the roadway and

be between the curb and the fence to uh

connect the two which would allow for

the connect connectivity.

But since that's not on this property,

whose responsibility would that be?

>> They would be responsible for making

that connection in front of the well

well site. >> Okay.

Uh conditions,

recommended conditions.

Saw here a couple questions on the staff

Just trying to understand some of these.

There's seven conditions that were

suggested. Uh proposition number three

is the proposed subdivision must be

completed in a single phase. Does that

mean that all of the

site work is done or how does that what

is that? require for the subdivision all

the frontage improvements would need to

be completed.

>> So just frontage improvements, not

necessarily the internal road.

>> The the internal access point um would

be a requirement with the actual site

plan review of the um proposed

convenience store with gas station, but

that's not a subdivision requirement. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

And then um

uh number seven was landscaping plans.

So the landscaping plans, street trees,

street trees should be planted by a

developer in spring following

construction of homes. I'm assuming that

means following construction of buildings,

buildings,

not necessarily houses,

but yes, with each but would they are

they going to be required to put in these

these

the landscape buffers the landscaping

itself along the street and around the

perimeter of the property before they

sell those individual lots or is it just

when actually somebody comes forward and

is developing that lot?

>> I will let planning answer that site

plan related question.

>> So, typically with a subdivision

um commercial subdivisions, they

generally form a property owners

association to maintain street trees

that are on the public rideway. Um this

right here, we generally

I don't know how this is prior to plat

how it's currently foreseen to be

managed. either is it going to be done

lot by lot or through a properties

owners association that is not been

relayed to me in planning it >> okay

>> what's it no it's talking about the

street trees

>> well all the approvements

>> street tree street trees shall be

planted by the developer in the spring

and fall following conditions so in

speaking to street trees they are done

either two ways they are either done

through a property owners association or

they're done by the adjacent property

and connected to each property to

develop as part of the site plan review.

And I'm just admitting right now I do

not know the preference nor been

informed on how that plan is to be done. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Maybe the applicant should shed could

shed a light on that aspect. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Thank you.

>> Okay. Am I understanding right then the

developer is only going to develop the

gas station piece. The other three

pieces aren't going to be developed and

possibly be sold or something. Is that

what I'm understanding?

>> Yeah. Currently, right now, you are

getting an a special use permit just for

lot three for that particular use.

You're also being requested to create

five lots. One of the lots, lot three is

the one with the special use permit. The

other four remaining lots will be

available to market and develop

consistent with all the permitted uses

that are allowed in the limited

commercial zone

>> for them to develop and or sell. >> Correct.

>> Correct.

Can you remind me how this lot became

>> There was an annexation in 2018 and it

would became limited commercial at that time.

time.

>> And why

I'm trying to remember why was R1 not

considered considering R1's everywhere else?

else?

might be able to from what I recollect

right now he's looking at the future

land use map to see if there's a

commercial note I don't believe there is

on that but when you look at the the

rightway that goes through that the

easement that's encumbers the property

with the gas line at the time of

annexation they looked at different

viabil uses with residential around that

with the rightway that be dedicated for

the that there it at the time of

annexation didn't seem like a good

viable option for them to put a

residential project. Plus, the time we

didn't necessarily have the cottage

home, the tiny home, and the other

options at the time for annexation that

are now available for annexation

requests. But this did, like Justin

said, um limited commercial was proposed

in 2018 and that's how it was brought

in. Then I

>> think if I remember right, it was one of

the arguments that they had for that was

one that the the angle of the pipeline

going through the property made it

pretty much impossible to develop a

single family. So it was either going to

be multif family or some sort of a

limited commercial. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And they even spoke to the fact that

there'd be a spot for a convenience

store would be a nice spot for being

close to the high school and whatnot

like that. So that was that was part of

their sales pitch. True. And then in

2018, we could do multif family and

limited commercial. That was an option.

Since 2018, we did remove multif family

as an option. So

>> I have a question. How many kids go to

that grade school?

>> That is a great question. I do not know.

>> It should be >> answer.

>> Might be in the comments from the school district.

district.

>> Yeah, it'll be in there.

>> It'll be last year's numbers, but it

350.

>> Sorry, what was that? >> Three

>> Three >> 350.

>> 350. >> 350.

>> 350.

>> High school, 1600.

>> We got 2,000 kids there and 1,600 of

them got cars.

>> Okay. I don't think that many.

>> Well, however, 800 then.

Any other questions?

All righty. Thank you. We got the

Name for the record, please.

>> Hi, I'm uh Nick Edner with Ace Solutions.

Solutions.

This is Kevin Stouse, also with Ace Solutions.

>> What's that?

>> Do you know where mine would be?

>> Brought it with me just in case.

right.

So again, yeah, I am uh Nick Edner.

We're here with Ace Solutions on behalf

of the owner uh Tony Marman. Uh River

City Corners, as was as mentioned, is a

4.06 06 acre lot at this uh intersection

of P line and Greens Ferry.

Uh currently it's within the city of

Post Falls zone limited commercial.

We're proposing five lots an average of

081 acres per lot.

Uh for utilities as mentioned there's existing

existing

uh city of Post Falls sewer lines within

both Greensferry and Pole line. Those

yellow lines on there represent rough

location of those sewer lines and the

brown is the water lines from Ross

Point. There's a 12-in water line at

Greens Ferry and a 6 in through at Pole

line. And then as mentioned also, we

have the Philip 66 gas line that runs

through the site that ends up forming a

lot of our future lot lines.

Uh here's our rough here's our layout

that we have so far. Uh we've got uh

like I said five lots. Our smallest lot

is lot one there. It's about 13 uh 250

square ft which is just under a third of

an acre. Our largest is lot three uh at 57500

57500

give or take and 1.3 acres. Uh as part

of our development, we'll be widening at

both pole line and greens ferry and then

we'll be installing 10-ft path extension

on pole line. Currently the as uh Mr.

Paulus mentioned the idea is that we

will go around the well at uh the poor

the poor boys uh water association. We

have been in some contact with them and

we have found out as Mr. Pace mentioned

that they are still using that well. Um

and uh yeah, we'll be doing a 5-ft um

sidewalk along Greens Ferry connecting

the existing and providing that last uh

connection at that intersection.

Um the uh lots bordering the residential

have a required 15t separation as

mentioned and currently also they are

also required to have a burm or fence as

part of that visual separation. So, not

only do they have to have trees, but

they need to have a um some sort of

vertical separation with a fence or burm

or combination.

>> So, would that burm or fence be not be

the existing fences there, but a new one?

one?

>> I believe the existing one is a chain

link fence. So, um no, it would need it

would need to have sight obscuring. So,

either Okay. um they would need to

provide slats and that or or probably

you know with all the site work to be

done it probably will need to be taken

out and put back in with something more

sight of securing anyway. So yeah

and then yeah as mentioned uh the the

special use is going to be occurring

currently on lot three. Uh the the

reason it is special use is as per as uh

as mentioned is because it has gasoline.

Uh it's be a convenience store with gas

gas station. Um we have done had some

initial discussions with the city in

terms of safety uh in terms of having

the fuel um being being where it's

located. Uh there's we cannot uh find

any local requirements from either DEEQ

or Kney County Fire and Rescue in terms

of how far it can be from a school. Um,

we we were able to locate a EPA recommendation.

recommendation.

It is of a,000 ft for four gas stations

that are planning to dispense more than

3.6 million gallons of gas. Now, I did a

little bit of research. The average gas

station only sells 1.1 million gallons

of gas. And this gas station is going to

have four islands with maybe eight

spots. I uh do not know what they're

anticipating for gas sales, but I would

imagine it's going to be hard for them

to to get 3.6 million or more. It sounds

like a very large station would be

yeah,

and I think that is all that I have for

now. There any questions? >> Questions?

In regards to the Philip 66 letter

that's in our packet, what conversations

have you had with this? Because this

says it may conflict with your proposed plan.

plan.

>> Yeah, we've had numerous conversations

with them already. We think what

happened is that this email got sent to

a different department within Philip 66,

but we've had we've had lots of

conversations um with them in terms of

both the location of where we can build

a building uh which they're happy with

and also with where the crossing is

because at um our last see if I can go

back to it at we've got the road that

will cross over the the line up here in

the the north side of lot three. uh they

have some requirements in terms of the

the casing either the casing of the

line. We've already done some initial

potholeing to determine how deep it is

and we've kind of come up with a with an

initial design of how we're going to

cross that line and they're so far

they're happy with everything. So, >> okay.

>> okay.

>> Okay. Thank you.

All right. Do public testimony now. If

you haven't and you still want to speak,

make sure you failed the paperwork.

Bring it up front to Nancy here. Uh so

the way this will work is everybody will

get four minutes to speak if they like

or I'll read their comments. Uh there is

not a uh a Q&A. If you have specific

questions for the developer, the

developer does have a certain amount of

time after public testimony to answer

those questions. So, if you have

questions, ask them. They will answer

them uh shortly after all the public

testimony. So, there is no back and

forth uh during this. So, just allow

everyone to to speak their mind. You'll

have four minutes. Uh Mr. Manley, how is this

this

clock working now? John,

>> how's this clock working now? Obviously,

I see something back there. Is there

something down here or how? >> No.

>> No.

>> Nancy's uh running the clock from over

there and then

>> they should see it on the on their

laptop too, correct? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, there's going to be a clock on the laptop.

laptop.

>> There should be one.

>> There's a timer on my iPad.

>> There's a timer on the iPad.

>> On the podium.

>> Okay. It's all new. We had a clock last

week, but Okay.

>> It's right here. >> Cool.

>> Cool.

>> And then NY's running that

>> and now it's upside down. There we go. Cool.

Cool.

All right. All right. Cool. So, the time

will be right in front of you so you'll

know how much time you have left. Um, if

I if you do run over and I do interrupt

you, it's just to let you know your

time's up. So, with that being said,

we'll go into public comments here.

Uh, not wishing to speak in opposition.

Megan Frederick, see attached letter.

Chase. Okay. Last name throwing me off.

All right.

To whom it may concern, I'm going to

read this into the record here. I'm

writing to express my deep concern in

strong opposition to the proposed

commercial development at the 4acre lot

less than 500 ft from my house. I

understand the current plan is to divide

it into parcels into five commercial

lots, including construction of a gas

station. and I urge you to reconsider

this proposal due the significant and

lasting negative impacts it would have

on our neighborhood, our property values

and safety and well-being of the nearby

families and children. Devaluation of

property and quality of life. Our

neighborhood is quiet residential area

characterized by family homes, green

space, and peaceful atmosphere.

Introducing a hightraic commercial

business, especially a gas station, will

erode this character. Numerous studies

have shown that homes located near gas

stations experience a drop in property

value sometimes to the amount of 5 to

15. The increased noise, traffic, light,

and air pollution

will also will make our area less

desirable for families and future buyers

and directly harming the investment we

made in our homes. Safety concerns. Gas

station near an oil pipeline. The

presence of an underground oil pipeline

on or near the proposed development site

raises serious safety con concerns.

Construction of a gas station is

inherently hazardous facility involving

fuel storage tanks and constant

refueling activity.

So close to a pressurized oil pipeline

significantly increases the risk of fire

explosion and environmental

contamination. Even a minor incident

could have catastrophic consequences,

not just for those in the at the

station, but for the homes in the vicinity.

vicinity.

Environmental and health risk. Gas

stations introduce a variety of

pollutants into the local environment,

including volatile organic compounds

from fuel vapors, potential leaks from

underground storage tanks, and

contaminated storm water runoff. These

pollutants can affect the local air and

water quality

especially troubling giving the

proximity to residential homes,

children, pets,

and sensitive individuals. Long-term exposure

exposure

to these VOCC's

VOCC's

has been linked to respiratory issues

and serious health concerns.

increase traffic and noise. The influx

of vehicles associated with multiple

commercial lots, especially a gas

station, will dramatically

uh drastically increase the traffic

volume of nearby roads not designed to

accommodate commercial traffic.

This raises the potential for accidents

endangering pedestrians and disrupts the

quiet and safe streets of our family

that our families currently enjoy.

Proximity to school pro proposes

additional risks. The proposed

development is dangerously close to a

high school and elementary school, which

raises many red flags, including traffic

near school zones, puts young

pedestrians and student drivers at

greater risk

uh potentially, particularly during high

traffic drop off, and pickup hours. In

addition, the presence of gas stations

so close to the school introduces

exposure to harmful air pollutants for

children. Those developing lungs are especially

especially

vulnerable. It's not only health resist

health risk, but a public safety

oversight. There's tobacco and alcohol

sold at gas stations so close to a

school. Mismatch with zoning and

community vision. This type of high

impact commercial development is

incompatible with the surrounding

residential areas and long-term vision

of the community. has uphold it

threatens to set a precedent for the

future. Encroachment of commercial area

commercial uses in the residential areas

and further degrading the community

fabric. In summary, allowing this

development to proceed would

irreversibly damage and the value,

safety, livability of our neighborhood.

I strongly urge you to prioritize the

well-being of families and friends who

built their lives here to reject the

Did you get the second name on there?

>> The second name? >> Yes,

>> Yes,

>> that was Megan Frederick and Chase Setsler.

All right. Wishing to speak in

>> It says see attachment.

>> Is that something when I'm done? I'm

going to read it and then I'll hand it

to you.

>> I'd like it. Somebody else could read.

That's great.

>> My name is Mary Joe McNell and I live in

Post Falls. Thank you for this

opportunity to speak with you today. I

would like to address the proposed gas

station and convenience store on the

northeast corner of Pole Line and Greens

Fairy called River City Corners. My

initial reaction to reading this was why

would they want to put a gas station

right across the street from an

elementary school. I'm concerned about

the public safety of for the children

who attend that school.

Gas stations are fire hazards and

explosion hazards, not to mention

magnets for robberies and other criminal activities.

activities.

I just think it's a very bad idea to put

one on that corner with children in such

close proximity.

This is a residential area. I live a

half a mile from there as the crow

flies. It is a a busy enough

intersection already and that's before

you are allowing an additional 700

housing units just a half a mile to the north.

north.

that that intersection is a dangerous

intersection as it is.

There are a myriad of gas stations just

over over on Highway 41. And I will make

a comment that he said that it was

Walmart and the one on the corner and

then the 7-Eleven. There's also a new

one going in on Hope and 41, a huge one

going in there. So, we have plenty of

gas stations.

Um, and I see absolutely no reason for

putting one smack dab in the middle of a

residential area and so close to three

different schools because there's the

high school, the elementary school, and

then just down the street there's that

other elementary school. I don't care

that it is a limited commercial zone.

That can be changed. I see you plan to

divide it into five commercial lots. I

think the city needs to reszone it it

residential and leave the commercial

properties over onto Highway 41. Please

do not let this corner um allow this

corner to become a gas station and

convenience store. And who else knows

what might go on the remaining lots?

Thank you again for your time.

>> Thank you. >> Thanks.

All right. Wishing to speak in

My name is Dustin Anderson. Um, first

question I have is there any way for us

uh as a community to veto the SCP for

>> I mean, that's what

>> that's what that's what this all is.

Okay. So, what what what do my big

question is what can we do as a

community uh to help you guys understand

that this is a bad idea?

>> What you're doing right now.

>> Okay. Well, this isn't enough people. Do

you need more signatures? Do you need

more people to hear from to to know that

this is a a a problem? Because this was

a surprise for everybody when we got it

in the mail. So, um, do you need more?

Because I there's a lot of families that

are willing to do what it takes to let

you guys understand this is a bad decision.

>> Ma'am, no. Okay. I >> No,

>> No,

>> it's posted. The property's been posted

with all the notices that can answer.

>> Okay, this is it's not a question and

answer. It is posted. It's on the

website there. That sign's been up there

and I know people and this has always

come up. So, if you have specific

questions, you know, tonight's the night

for the hearing. We'll see what happens tonight.

tonight.

Goes forward, goes backwards, I don't know.

know.

>> Um you can ask specific questions if you

and uh we can't really go have this back

and forth because we could go back

forward all night long.

>> Okay. So this

>> you have questions for the developer,

ask those. They can answer in the

rebuttal period, but we're not going to

have this back and forth. And please, no

questions from the audience.

>> Okay. So I asked the developer that

question then. Is that what you're

saying? So because that was a that was

my question.

>> I mean the hearing is tonight. So

>> this is the only possibility for anybody

to speak.

>> It depends on what happens tonight.

Okay. I mean,

>> um, so on that behalf, I strongly would

urge you guys to please, like it was

said, it's already a busy intersection.

Uh, it gets crazy around that area.

There's tons of kids, tons of people

there. Who cares about it being a small

town vibe. That's why we moved here.

That's why we live here. It doesn't have

to be, you don't have to bring the city

life to the middle of a residential area

for us to feel some type of way.

Especially a gas station, that's not

going to do it. And the commercial lots

are one thing. It's going to be looking

right down into our property. It's going

to decrease our property value a lot.

And to be honest with you, uh it it'd be

awesome if you guys can really look at

this and think to yourselves, is this

really a good idea when there's gas

stations literally right down the

street. They just built new ones. We

don't need anymore in that area. So, um

that's all I have to say. Please

reconsider it.

>> Okay. Thank you.

All right. Wishing to speak neutral.

Is it Byron Stark?

I say that right.

>> Do I just have something for the time on

this or

>> I think she's got

>> Okay, perfect.

>> somehow remote control.

>> Okay. I just wanted to say thank you for

letting me speak first and foremost. Um,

I just had a couple of questions. Well,

I know this isn't really Q&A, but just

for the developer and kind of the

history of, you know, that area. Um, I'm

pretty sure that anyone here could, you

know, go on Google and look and see the

amount of traffic fatalities that

happened right along Greens Ferry. Um, I

mean, last year we had uh what was it?

An 8-year-old kid got hit right outside

the school zone by someone that wasn't

paying attention. Couple years back a

15-year-old with a bike and then a

10-year-old girl. And then 2016 there

was another incident. So my big question

for the developer in that regards is

what is going to be done mitigation wise

because a commercial area right next to

a hightra school zone is in my opinion

never really like a good idea except if

there's mitigation there. Um if there's

some sort of plan to allocate for that.

Um so I'm just wondering like planning

wise what's being done to offset the

safety concerns. I'm sure that everyone

is wondering about here. Um, and kind of

just like in general, um, again with

that history of, you know, traffic

fatalities, you can look up article

after article after article and, you

know, is there is this is a safety zone

like is a school zone going to be

increased or is there going to be some

sort of officer station by to make sure

the kids are getting out of school safe,

you know? So what is being done

mitigationwise to alleviate um you know

concerned parents, concerned citizens,

people who live in that area and who

have lost people who have died uh in

that area to people who are again going

over the speed limit, not paying

attention and right having a commercial

area which is going to be a hightra

area. It's less about to me about the um

you know gas hazard and fire hazard and

more about the proximity of it being

right next to um an educational

facility. I mean you had issues with the

elementary school, the Prairie

Elementary School, that's where those

young kids passed away, but you also or

got injured. And then you also have the

high school that's right next door as

well. And then you have the real life

church a couple blocks down which is a

40,000 um member congregation over

there. It's a very big institution. So

there's a lot of children, a lot of

teenagers, a lot of middle schoolers

kind of all running around there. So my

big concern for that development is the

proximity of the residential area right

next to a commercial area. What's going

All right. Not wishing to speak in opposition.

I'm going to butcher this first name.

McKay Christensen.

Thank you.

Uh there are concerns of increased

traffic throughout the neighborhood.

concern concerns being three schools in

the area and again resulting in heavy

traffic. Another concern being my back

fence faces zone three with crime

increasing. This is two worrisome. Two

years ago I spoke with Mr. Wilhelm about

adding a walkway sidewalk to the east

side agree. He said not a chance. Please

say not a chance here. Thank you.

Um, some they spoke with you two years

ago about adding a walkway and sidewalk

to the east side of Greens Fairy and you

So,

uh, wishing to speak in opposition,

Hi.

>> I actually came here for a different pl

for a different thing. So, I'm actually

really surprised about this one, which

is terrifying, quite honestly. Uh, and

by the way, there's not three school.

There's four schools right there. So,

there's a STEM school that's in the

TLore district right there. I don't know

if anybody remembers that one, but so

there's a high school, there's the

elementary school that my grandchildren

who live with me go to right across the

street from where they're planning on

putting it. And then there's one just

down the street. So that's four schools,

not three. And it's honestly that's

terrifying. There's

when you say not a chance, like that's

literally the thing that I'm saying in

my head like not a chance do I want that

there at all. like whoever wrote the

first letter, bravo. And everybody else

who spoke against it, yes, bravo. But

that first letter, 100% every single

thing. And uh but yes, the the safety of

those kids and walking

is terrifying to have a convenience

store and a gas station right there.

Property values, all of that. Yes. But

for the kids safety, no. I do not want

that there. No, my neighbors do not want

that. I'm like texting my neighbors at

the same time like, "Oh my gosh, I wish

you guys are all off work right now

because this is not something that we

And when he said something about 1,000

ft is what the recommendation is, what

is it? 100 foot across the street from

an elementary school and then maybe a

Come on, you guys. No, we don't need a

gas station there. We don't need it. We

really don't even need a convenience

store there. I'd rather have a house

there than I would a convenience store

and a gas station by all means. Like, we

can all go a mile and there's two of

them right there. And there's a gas

station right there. Gas station right

there. Convenience store. Convenience

store. and another store. That's all

within one mile

and all on a highway. We don't need it

in the middle of our street right there.

So, thank you.

Hello. I'd just like to respond to a few

of a few of the comments. Um, first of

all, uh, as we mentioned, we will be

widening that corner intersection. Um, that'll,

that'll,

uh, include completing the crosswalks at

Greens Ferry and Pole Line. And uh the

city may require uh additional

requirements along our our two points of

entry. Um and we're happy to comply with

those as needed if it needs to be

painted um painted with crosswalks or

painted with uh crossing stripes,

whatever whatever is needed, we're happy

to comply.

Um, and we just also like to highlight

too that um along with uh with what's

been proposed for lot three, there are

other possibilities for uh limited

commercial within the other lots. Um

limited commercial could be anything

from a uh another could be anything from

a coffee stand to a floor shop. All

those things could be could be on that

corner as well as uh what's been

currently proposed at the gas station.

So um and uh the other question about

how far away is it uh it is roughly 500

ft uh doortodoor from where the gas

station will be to the front door of

that of the school. Um so thank you. All

Close out the hearing and we'll go look

at our review criteria. do some deliberation.

deliberation.

>> Mr. Chairman, really quick. Um, Chris,

would you mind kind of speaking? We have

a lot more people in the audience than

we normally do. Can you kind of speak to

a little bit about what our job here is

and what what us as a commission is

supposed to be doing because there's we

want to make sure that everyone understands.

understands.

>> Yes, sir. So,

obviously tonight we have two actions

for consideration in front of the board. uh one is a subdivision request from one

uh one is a subdivision request from one lot into five lots in a limited

lot into five lots in a limited commercial zone. The limited commercial

commercial zone. The limited commercial zone is already established. The

zone is already established. The commission is not making a

commission is not making a recommendation on any zone changes. In

recommendation on any zone changes. In the limited commercial zone, there are

the limited commercial zone, there are certain commercial uses that are

certain commercial uses that are permitted outright. That is the

permitted outright. That is the applicant doesn't need request from the

applicant doesn't need request from the this commission to do those permitted

this commission to do those permitted uses. uh there's a list of them in the

uses. uh there's a list of them in the city code and they range from any number

city code and they range from any number of things. Uh so that is the first

of things. Uh so that is the first action is is the subdivision.

action is is the subdivision. Usually those are fairly mechanical uh

Usually those are fairly mechanical uh decisions. Uh and if an applicant meets

decisions. Uh and if an applicant meets the criteria, they're generally entitled

the criteria, they're generally entitled to request uh the subdivision

to request uh the subdivision consideration. Uh the second action

consideration. Uh the second action tonight is the uh special use permit

tonight is the uh special use permit which is really limited to the only only

which is really limited to the only only the fact that the proposed convenience

the fact that the proposed convenience store location would like gas station in

store location would like gas station in our code. A convenience store is a

our code. A convenience store is a permitted outright use but a convenience

permitted outright use but a convenience store with gas facilities is a special

store with gas facilities is a special use permit. And under the special use

use permit. And under the special use permit which is also before this

permit which is also before this commission we have limited criteria u

commission we have limited criteria u established by our code and we go

established by our code and we go through and decide whether or not the

through and decide whether or not the special use is permitted or not with our

special use is permitted or not with our four criteria that our staff outlined

four criteria that our staff outlined before. So, um there are certain rights

before. So, um there are certain rights that are somewhat uh

that are somewhat uh set in our code and there are certain

set in our code and there are certain parts where we have some discretion uh

parts where we have some discretion uh and we'll go through those criteria uh

and we'll go through those criteria uh in more detail here as the commission

in more detail here as the commission deliberates.

deliberates. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Does that help?

>> Does that help? >> It it does. Thank you.

>> It it does. Thank you. So,

So, uh, depending on how you folks would

uh, depending on how you folks would like to move forward, um, the

like to move forward, um, the subdivision approval can occur whether

subdivision approval can occur whether or not the special use permit one is not

or not the special use permit one is not conditioned on the other. Obviously, the

conditioned on the other. Obviously, the special use permit would be conditioned

special use permit would be conditioned on the subdivision approval. So,

on the subdivision approval. So, depending on what your brothers are,

depending on what your brothers are, which one would you like to hear first?

which one would you like to hear first? I would recommend we address the special

I would recommend we address the special use permit first because that's kind of

use permit first because that's kind of the way we do things. We usually wrap up

the way we do things. We usually wrap up with a subdivision approval criteria,

with a subdivision approval criteria, but

but I'm I'm open to either suggestion

I'm I'm open to either suggestion tonight.

tonight. >> No, that's that's fine.

>> No, that's that's fine. >> I I would rather go the other way.

>> I I would rather go the other way. >> You want to go subdivision first? Divide

>> You want to go subdivision first? Divide look at the division of lots and then

look at the division of lots and then decide on lot three whether or not a

decide on lot three whether or not a special use permit would be granted for

special use permit would be granted for that. Maybe that makes more sense.

that. Maybe that makes more sense. >> That would be my recommendation.

>> That would be my recommendation. >> All right, let's do that then.

>> All right, let's do that then. >> Anybody else go with that?

>> Anybody else go with that? >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> All right.

>> All right. >> All right. Uh, River City Corners

>> All right. Uh, River City Corners subdivision 25-1.

subdivision 25-1. Uh, the request tonight is to look at a

Uh, the request tonight is to look at a division of a 4.06 acre parcel into five

division of a 4.06 acre parcel into five lots. It is already annexed into this

lots. It is already annexed into this city. It has limited commercial zoning.

city. It has limited commercial zoning. Uh, so review criteria number one, uh,

Uh, so review criteria number one, uh, whether diff is up on the board for you.

whether diff is up on the board for you. whether definite provision has been made

whether definite provision has been made for water supply adequate in terms of

for water supply adequate in terms of quantity and quality for the type of

quantity and quality for the type of subdivision proposed. Uh again, a

subdivision proposed. Uh again, a limited commercial subdivision.

limited commercial subdivision. >> Ross points the water provider. They've

>> Ross points the water provider. They've raised no concerns about supply there

raised no concerns about supply there and the existence of uh lines already to

and the existence of uh lines already to the property. I don't see any issue with

the property. I don't see any issue with >> Okay, I'm getting agreement on that one.

>> Okay, I'm getting agreement on that one. >> Yes.

>> Yes. >> Agreed. Yeah. Uh number two, adequate

>> Agreed. Yeah. Uh number two, adequate provisions have been made for a public

provisions have been made for a public sewage system and that the existing

sewage system and that the existing municipal system or private system I

municipal system or private system I suppose can accommodate the proposed

suppose can accommodate the proposed sewer flows.

sewer flows. >> Yeah, the city approved it.

>> Yeah, the city approved it. >> And on this criteria again, the city has

>> And on this criteria again, the city has indicated a well- served letter or has

indicated a well- served letter or has capacity. So these ones are fairly

capacity. So these ones are fairly mechanical. Uh number three, whether

mechanical. Uh number three, whether proposed streets are consistent with the

proposed streets are consistent with the transportation element of the

transportation element of the comprehensive plan. I think this is

comprehensive plan. I think this is probably one of the biggest parts of

probably one of the biggest parts of this is that both of them both streets

this is that both of them both streets are minor or yeah minor arterials I

are minor or yeah minor arterials I think um and

think um and this is the last quadrant of that

this is the last quadrant of that intersection to come forward and

intersection to come forward and develop. So this is a very very

develop. So this is a very very important part of the capacity of that

important part of the capacity of that intersection. So it's it's fairly major

intersection. So it's it's fairly major intersection. Uh Greens Fair is um

intersection. Uh Greens Fair is um eventually going to be five l or is five

eventually going to be five l or is five lanes or designed for five lanes and

lanes or designed for five lanes and pulling is as well. So um having that be

pulling is as well. So um having that be able to complete the transportation

able to complete the transportation um improvements for that is incredibly

um improvements for that is incredibly important. Um, it also provides a

important. Um, it also provides a pedestrian link

pedestrian link that is very, very important to get kids

that is very, very important to get kids down from the west side or excuse me,

down from the west side or excuse me, the east side of Greens Fairy um down on

the east side of Greens Fairy um down on a sidewalk or pathway to the

a sidewalk or pathway to the intersection so they can safely cross

intersection so they can safely cross um pull line to get to school and not

um pull line to get to school and not have to go down to the midblock

have to go down to the midblock crossing.

crossing. um that even though it does have a rapid

um that even though it does have a rapid flashing beacon, um those are never as

flashing beacon, um those are never as effective as intersections with traffic

effective as intersections with traffic signals for pedestrian crossings. And so

signals for pedestrian crossings. And so this is consistent um with the

this is consistent um with the transportation element. And there's

transportation element. And there's actually no internal streets. It's just

actually no internal streets. It's just all external streets, which is a huge

all external streets, which is a huge benefit uh to our community.

benefit uh to our community. >> Widen end up widening both streets, end

>> Widen end up widening both streets, end up creating uh pedestrian pathways on

up creating uh pedestrian pathways on both streets that are separated from

both streets that are separated from traffic. via that landscape buffer,

traffic. via that landscape buffer, swale, whatever.

swale, whatever. >> It's a It's a big safety improvement.

>> It's a It's a big safety improvement. >> Okay.

>> Okay. And and on that one, I don't think there was any real testimony about the

there was any real testimony about the internal structure or the driveways or

internal structure or the driveways or anything else. Um that's all going to be

anything else. Um that's all going to be privately maintained and everything

privately maintained and everything else. So internal to the subdivision.

else. So internal to the subdivision. Those aren't going to be public roads or

Those aren't going to be public roads or dedicated,

dedicated, >> right? They're just cross access

>> right? They're just cross access easements.

>> All right. Number four. Number four. Um, all areas of the proposed subdivision

all areas of the proposed subdivision involving soil or topographical

involving soil or topographical conditions presenting hazards have been

conditions presenting hazards have been identified and the pro proposed uses of

identified and the pro proposed uses of these areas are compatible with such

these areas are compatible with such conditions.

conditions. I think the only hazard that was

I think the only hazard that was identified is the pipeline and its

identified is the pipeline and its location and

location and Philip 66 uh Yellowstone pipeline people

Philip 66 uh Yellowstone pipeline people are are seem like they're they're being

are are seem like they're they're being um dealt with by just giving them a 50

um dealt with by just giving them a 50 foot wide easement green space around

foot wide easement green space around their their infrastructure. So that

their their infrastructure. So that generally takes care of that and they've

generally takes care of that and they've got special crossing

got special crossing conditions that are being met by the

conditions that are being met by the developer. So um I think that's the only

developer. So um I think that's the only thing that's there and it's being

thing that's there and it's being adequately identified

adequately identified and mitigated.

>> Agreed. Okay, thank you. Uh number five, the uh area for the proposed for the

the uh area for the proposed for the subdivision is zoned for the proposed

subdivision is zoned for the proposed use and the use conforms to other

use and the use conforms to other requirements found in the code.

requirements found in the code. I

I >> think this is one where there's kind of

>> think this is one where there's kind of some misunderstanding. So the property

some misunderstanding. So the property is zoned limited commercial now.

is zoned limited commercial now. >> Yes.

>> Yes. >> Right.

>> Right. >> The subdivision doesn't change that. It

>> The subdivision doesn't change that. It doesn't change what the uses of that

doesn't change what the uses of that site, what the

site, what the permitted uses of that site are. So I

permitted uses of that site are. So I don't have any issue with the

don't have any issue with the subdivision itself.

subdivision itself. >> All right. I mean, as it as it stands

>> All right. I mean, as it as it stands right now today, they could go and put

right now today, they could go and put five different buildings or six

five different buildings or six different buildings on the one parcel.

different buildings on the one parcel. >> Exactly.

>> Exactly. >> The only thing a subdivision does is

>> The only thing a subdivision does is allows different ownership.

allows different ownership. >> Correct.

>> Correct. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> They could technically lease pads if

>> They could technically lease pads if they wanted to on one on one parcel.

they wanted to on one on one parcel. >> Yep.

Uh and finally, number six, uh the de developer has made adequate plans to

developer has made adequate plans to ensure the community bears no more than

ensure the community bears no more than its fair share of cost to provide the

its fair share of cost to provide the service by paying fees or otherwise.

>> Yeah, they're responsible for all the impact fees and

impact fees and doing off-site improvements.

doing off-site improvements. >> Yeah, they're they're frontage

>> Yeah, they're they're frontage improvements are particularly costly to

improvements are particularly costly to be honest. I mean, that's an expensive

be honest. I mean, that's an expensive corner to develop and they even got to

corner to develop and they even got to move a traffic signal mast arm.

move a traffic signal mast arm. Yeah. Between the the street widening,

Yeah. Between the the street widening, those the dedications that are required

those the dedications that are required for that, the improvements along the

for that, the improvements along the street, and then the impact fees, that's

street, and then the impact fees, that's substantial cost.

substantial cost. >> It's substantial. It probably more than

>> It's substantial. It probably more than covers their impact. Yeah,

covers their impact. Yeah, >> I mean impact fees are meant to cover

>> I mean impact fees are meant to cover all their impacts and they're also the

all their impacts and they're also the adjoining

adjoining infrastructure development is pretty

infrastructure development is pretty extensive relatively speaking.

extensive relatively speaking. Okay, that's all I had. Commissioners,

Okay, that's all I had. Commissioners, now we did have some recommendations on

now we did have some recommendations on this, but it sounds like the

this, but it sounds like the recommendations were tied to both. So,

recommendations were tied to both. So, uh, we can go ahead and deliberate on

uh, we can go ahead and deliberate on the subdivision approval, uh, at this

the subdivision approval, uh, at this point and then circle back around on,

point and then circle back around on, um, I think there's seven

um, I think there's seven recommendations for both PUD and

recommendations for both PUD and subdivision conditions. Um, I don't know

subdivision conditions. Um, I don't know that any of them were specific to the

that any of them were specific to the PUD specifically. So the conditions are

PUD specifically. So the conditions are one through seven and with the exception

one through seven and with the exception of number seven being following

of number seven being following construction of the I'd say uh not homes

construction of the I'd say uh not homes that's obviously a transplant but uh

that's obviously a transplant but uh street trees shall be planted by the

street trees shall be planted by the developer in the spring and fall

developer in the spring and fall following construction of the sites make

following construction of the sites make that modification.

that modification. Um but I don't know that any of these

Um but I don't know that any of these were

were >> so specific to the PUD

>> so specific to the PUD >> but is this a PUD?

>> but is this a PUD? >> I'm sorry. Excuse me.

>> I'm sorry. Excuse me. >> Special use permit SU or a typo in the

>> Special use permit SU or a typo in the staff report. I misread that. I

staff report. I misread that. I apologize. I correctly read it, but I

apologize. I correctly read it, but I was

was >> in reading through these conditions.

>> in reading through these conditions. My opinion is all seven of these

My opinion is all seven of these conditions apply to the subdivision.

conditions apply to the subdivision. >> That's the intent. The intent of the

>> That's the intent. The intent of the section is um to go apply these

section is um to go apply these conditions to the subdivision of which

conditions to the subdivision of which then you could um as Justin elaborated,

then you could um as Justin elaborated, we have those six arenas. When you get

we have those six arenas. When you get in here the special use permit, you

in here the special use permit, you technically can apply special conditions

technically can apply special conditions beyond what code would otherwise require

beyond what code would otherwise require to that special use permit if there was

to that special use permit if there was a a way that you guys wanted to

a a way that you guys wanted to entertain that.

entertain that. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, so my recommendation is to if we're

>> So, so my recommendation is to if we're going to vote on this one, then look at

going to vote on this one, then look at these seven conditions for this one and

these seven conditions for this one and we'll treat the SUP separately.

we'll treat the SUP separately. >> My my question on the conditions is I

>> My my question on the conditions is I still don't understand condition number

still don't understand condition number three. the proposed subdivision must be

three. the proposed subdivision must be completed in a single phase. I don't

completed in a single phase. I don't understand what that means.

understand what that means. >> The intent of that is in our code it

>> The intent of that is in our code it says that it's to clarify that when you

says that it's to clarify that when you do the project and when they do the

do the project and when they do the platting prior to plat they're going to

platting prior to plat they're going to do all of the off-site improvements and

do all of the off-site improvements and associated internal improvements that

associated internal improvements that are needed to satisfy the elements of

are needed to satisfy the elements of the plat that they won't be able to

the plat that they won't be able to break this up into two phases. So,

break this up into two phases. So, hypothetically, let's just say there's

hypothetically, let's just say there's the special use permit. Whatever the

the special use permit. Whatever the outcome, they did that portion of the

outcome, they did that portion of the subdivision. They come to the city and

subdivision. They come to the city and they go, "We only want to do the east

they go, "We only want to do the east portion now and we want to break it up

portion now and we want to break it up and do the second portion later." This

and do the second portion later." This makes it really clear, no, you're going

makes it really clear, no, you're going to do the whole thing in one

to do the whole thing in one construction phase.

construction phase. >> Okay. So, would it be addressed with

>> Okay. So, would it be addressed with condition number three or condition

condition number three or condition number two that they need to have all

number two that they need to have all those off-site improvements done,

those off-site improvements done, including the landscaping, including the

including the landscaping, including the roadway

roadway through the property, the private

through the property, the private roadway through the property? Is that

roadway through the property? Is that part of the master development agreement

part of the master development agreement or is that part of this single phase?

or is that part of this single phase? Will the master development agreement

or can we can we make it a condition on there that the subdivision requires

there that the subdivision requires those internal roads to be done?

My concern is that we end up with just the parcel where this convenience store

the parcel where this convenience store is proposed with one access point only

is proposed with one access point only off a pole line and the road going out

off a pole line and the road going out to Greens Ferry which is shown on the

to Greens Ferry which is shown on the drawings is never built.

My interpretation is that's what number three is saying. The whole subdivision

three is saying. The whole subdivision must be completed in a single phase. Not

must be completed in a single phase. Not necessarily the individual lots and the

necessarily the individual lots and the buildings but the subdivision the front

buildings but the subdivision the front of.

of. >> That's what I want to clarify. Yeah,

>> That's what I want to clarify. Yeah, that's my interpretation. That's the way

that's my interpretation. That's the way I've always interpreted it.

I've always interpreted it. >> So, if you were to amend that condition,

>> So, if you were to amend that condition, you would say something the effect of

you would say something the effect of the subdivision must be completed in a

the subdivision must be completed in a single phase inclusive of internal

single phase inclusive of internal circulation.

circulation. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. and and condition number seven,

>> Yeah. and and condition number seven, I'm not following why trees wouldn't be

I'm not following why trees wouldn't be done now and why we would wait until

done now and why we would wait until buildings are added or built.

buildings are added or built. >> I think it's probably a leftover from

>> I think it's probably a leftover from maybe a residential subdivision

maybe a residential subdivision requirement. I think you're right. Um

requirement. I think you're right. Um it's it's appropriate to have the the

it's it's appropriate to have the the frontage. So, usually like in in

frontage. So, usually like in in residential subdivision,

residential subdivision, the house construction beats up the home

the house construction beats up the home front, the street frontage, and you

front, the street frontage, and you can't put

can't put >> I could see that happening like along

>> I could see that happening like along the the backside, the buffer, that

the the backside, the buffer, that probably won't be built until there's

probably won't be built until there's something built on those sites.

something built on those sites. >> But along the streets, I think that

>> But along the streets, I think that should all be complete.

should all be complete. >> Yeah, this actually says construction of

>> Yeah, this actually says construction of homes, which is not

homes, which is not >> applicable. So, I think we

>> applicable. So, I think we >> could amend it. Yeah, condition seven

>> could amend it. Yeah, condition seven should probably say something to the

should probably say something to the effect of final landscape trans plans

effect of final landscape trans plans for street trees. Um well, street trees

for street trees. Um well, street trees shall be planted um as part of the

shall be planted um as part of the development of the subdivision

development of the subdivision and just leave it at that.

and just leave it at that. >> Yeah, it's part of it's part of the

>> Yeah, it's part of it's part of the single phase,

single phase, >> right? And they can they'll I'm sure

>> right? And they can they'll I'm sure they're going to have a property owners

they're going to have a property owners association or a commercial development

association or a commercial development association that'll maintain.

association that'll maintain. So,

So, so that

so that and so yeah, the

and so yeah, the frontage improvements are the

frontage improvements are the responsibility of either

responsibility of either the property owners association or the

the property owners association or the adjoining property owner.

adjoining property owner. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Correct. Right.

>> Correct. Right. >> Anything else?

>> Anything else? >> But but commissioners, it's the timing

>> But but commissioners, it's the timing you're looking at on the trees, right?

you're looking at on the trees, right? When when do those trees need to be in

When when do those trees need to be in >> part of the subdivision construction?

>> part of the subdivision construction? I'm thinking that number seven should

I'm thinking that number seven should read the second sentence should read

read the second sentence should read street trees shall be planted by the

street trees shall be planted by the developer in the spring and fall

developer in the spring and fall preceding building construction

and oftentimes like with commercial they post a bond or shity for like when it

post a bond or shity for like when it gets into you obviously don't want them

gets into you obviously don't want them planting trees you know late November

planting trees you know late November December right because the ground ain't

December right because the ground ain't right so they'll go and they'll post a

right so they'll go and they'll post a bond or shity and then come springtime

bond or shity and then come springtime there's usually some items that they

there's usually some items that they some bullet items that they install and

some bullet items that they install and then they release to shity for that. So

then they release to shity for that. So there's ways in the commercial that we

there's ways in the commercial that we generally do that and add that clarity

generally do that and add that clarity in the construction improvement

in the construction improvement agreement, the approved landscape plans

agreement, the approved landscape plans and how they coordinate with the

and how they coordinate with the engineering division for those off-site

engineering division for those off-site improvements.

improvements. >> Okay.

>> following construction? I I think is is what I'm struggling with

what I'm struggling with >> used to be.

>> used to be. >> So with a reg so with a a subdivision

>> So with a reg so with a a subdivision that like a standard subdivision like

that like a standard subdivision like for instance and I'll bring it up

for instance and I'll bring it up because Fieldstone it's across the

because Fieldstone it's across the street, right?

street, right? >> So the frontage improvements on P line

>> So the frontage improvements on P line and Greens Ferry Street trees were put

and Greens Ferry Street trees were put in as part of the subdivision

in as part of the subdivision improvements,

improvements, >> right?

>> right? >> And I think the same applies here.

>> And I think the same applies here. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> So it's just part of the subdivision

>> So it's just part of the subdivision improvements. individual lot development

improvements. individual lot development can happen at a later time because

can happen at a later time because that's they're not going to they're all

that's they're not going to they're all getting

getting >> yeah they're landscaping plans for their

>> yeah they're landscaping plans for their individual parcels

individual parcels >> but the street improvement is what I'm

>> but the street improvement is what I'm concerned with.

concerned with. >> Yeah, the street trees happens as part

>> Yeah, the street trees happens as part of the subdivision

of the subdivision >> proceeding proceeding construction of

>> proceeding proceeding construction of the sites.

the sites. >> Yeah, I think we could append it to

>> Yeah, I think we could append it to number four.

number four. >> I just have never seen number seven

>> I just have never seen number seven spelled out separately in any other

spelled out separately in any other subdivision we've done when we start

subdivision we've done when we start talking about street trees. So it threw

talking about street trees. So it threw me for a loop. That's

me for a loop. That's >> I conferred with the city engineer. We

>> I conferred with the city engineer. We could probably remove seven and the

could probably remove seven and the frontage improvements are in included in

frontage improvements are in included in the construction improvement agreement.

the construction improvement agreement. >> Perfect.

>> Perfect. Okay, cool.

Okay, cool. >> All right. All that being said,

>> All right. All that being said, >> sorry for the confusion.

>> sorry for the confusion. >> That's fine. like somebody like to make

>> That's fine. like somebody like to make a motion.

So, I'll make a motion here. Looking for my sample.

Looking for my sample. Um, I move to approve

Um, I move to approve the River City Corner subdivision

the River City Corner subdivision and the subdivision file number is

and the subdivision file number is SUBD-25-1

finding that it meets the approval criteria in Post Falls Municipal Code

criteria in Post Falls Municipal Code 17.12.060

17.12.060 060

060 as outlined in our deliberation here and

as outlined in our deliberation here and subject to the conditions

subject to the conditions of one through six as uh

of one through six as uh as contained in the staff report and

as contained in the staff report and direct staff to prepare a reasoned

direct staff to prepare a reasoned decision.

decision. >> Do we need to mention anything about

>> Do we need to mention anything about removing seven and incorporate that into

removing seven and incorporate that into >> I think he's got it with one through

>> I think he's got it with one through six. Would we include on condition three

six. Would we include on condition three the internal access driveways to be

the internal access driveways to be included as the subdivision

included as the subdivision improvements?

improvements? >> Okay. So, uh amending

>> Okay. So, uh amending condition three to say the proposed

condition three to say the proposed subdivision must be completed completed

subdivision must be completed completed in a single phase which includes

in a single phase which includes internal access. How do you say that?

internal access. How do you say that? >> Internal access circulation.

>> Internal access circulation. >> Internal access and circulation.

Okay. Have a motion on the floor. Second and a

Have a motion on the floor. Second and a second. Roll call, please.

second. Roll call, please. >> Stephenson,

>> Stephenson, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Kimble,

>> Kimble, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Wilham,

>> Wilham, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Shriber,

>> Shriber, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Carrie,

>> Carrie, >> yes.

>> All right, moving into the special use permit

moving into the special use permit review.

review. All right.

River City Corners SE use permit 25-1. Um, again addressing the use of the lot

Um, again addressing the use of the lot three, proposed lot three from the

three, proposed lot three from the subdivision for

subdivision for uh convenience store with gas station

uh convenience store with gas station facilities. Um number one, whether

facilities. Um number one, whether implementation of the special use would

implementation of the special use would or would not conform to the purposes of

or would not conform to the purposes of the applicable zoning district uh which

the applicable zoning district uh which is

is >> commercial light or what is it? Light

>> commercial light or what is it? Light commercial

commercial >> limited commercial

>> limited commercial >> limited commercial.

Yeah, I mean if implemented, it does conform to that zoning district

conform to that zoning district >> and and the intent of the LC zone is to

>> and and the intent of the LC zone is to permit neighborhood compatible

permit neighborhood compatible commercial retail and service

commercial retail and service uh modest in scale

So pretty pretty straightforward there, >> right? I mean the the special use permit

>> right? I mean the the special use permit here is for the gas pumps, not the

here is for the gas pumps, not the convenience store, right?

convenience store, right? >> So I mean the convenience store is

>> So I mean the convenience store is allowed outright in that zone.

allowed outright in that zone. >> So the question is just the gas pumps.

>> So the question is just the gas pumps. >> It's really the gas pumps and the and

>> It's really the gas pumps and the and that as a use is

that as a use is what we're talking about here tonight.

what we're talking about here tonight. Not not whether it's a gas or a

Not not whether it's a gas or a convenience store or a coffee stand or

convenience store or a coffee stand or anything else that would be outright

anything else that would be outright allowed with just a building permit.

allowed with just a building permit. They go do it tomorrow.

They go do it tomorrow. >> See, that that threw me off there a

>> See, that that threw me off there a little bit because when when it was

little bit because when when it was going to come to the safety on this one,

going to come to the safety on this one, I thought the convenience store gas

I thought the convenience store gas station was one

station was one >> or I wouldn't have voted for it.

>> or I wouldn't have voted for it. >> And what do you mean? I'll explain when

>> And what do you mean? I'll explain when you come into the

you come into the this health, safety, and welfare on

this health, safety, and welfare on this.

this. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Sure. Uh and let's break it down. So on

>> Sure. Uh and let's break it down. So on number one, we're talking about again

number one, we're talking about again whether this special use, i.e. the

whether this special use, i.e. the extension of the gas station, I'm sorry,

extension of the gas station, I'm sorry, the convenience store used to the gas

the convenience store used to the gas station combo use would or would not

station combo use would or would not conform to the purposes of the uh

conform to the purposes of the uh limited commercial zone. Um, I think

limited commercial zone. Um, I think there's a lot of examples in in our area

there's a lot of examples in in our area where there are

where there are gas stations in fairly close proximity

gas stations in fairly close proximity to residential areas and little nodes.

to residential areas and little nodes. And I think that's

And I think that's really the the whole point of this. when

really the the whole point of this. when we when we zoned it in 2018 when it

we when we zoned it in 2018 when it annex and was zoned in 2018 as limited

annex and was zoned in 2018 as limited commercial

commercial um it was done so knowing that it was at

um it was done so knowing that it was at the intersection of two minor arterials

the intersection of two minor arterials which are supposed to have I mean

which are supposed to have I mean eventually they're going to have I think

eventually they're going to have I think Rob you can correct me if I'm wrong but

Rob you can correct me if I'm wrong but I think what 15,000 cars per 10 to

I think what 15,000 cars per 10 to 15,000 cars per day on each street um at

15,000 cars per day on each street um at capacity

capacity um it is not a it's not the roads are

um it is not a it's not the roads are designed designed for high volume.

designed designed for high volume. That's what they're there for. Um that's

That's what they're there for. Um that's what our transportation master plan

what our transportation master plan says. And so,

says. And so, um so if you're looking at a an

um so if you're looking at a an intersection that has 20,000 cars per

intersection that has 20,000 cars per day going through it, then that's um I

day going through it, then that's um I think that's an appropriate location for

think that's an appropriate location for a gas station.

>> Ladies and gentlemen, thank you. Okay,

Okay, >> number two.

>> number two. >> Number two, whether the proposed use

>> Number two, whether the proposed use constitutes an allowable special use as

constitutes an allowable special use as established by this chapter for the

established by this chapter for the zoning district involved and complies

zoning district involved and complies with all other applicable laws,

with all other applicable laws, ordinances, and regulations of the city

ordinances, and regulations of the city in the state.

in the state. So, this one is just going directly back

So, this one is just going directly back to our ordinance and our ordinance says

to our ordinance and our ordinance says that gas stations are a special use

that gas stations are a special use allowable special use in the LC zone

allowable special use in the LC zone through this process through the special

through this process through the special use permit process. So, I don't see any

use permit process. So, I don't see any question with number two.

question with number two. >> That agree?

>> That agree? >> Yeah. The land

>> Yeah. The land in the land use category and zoning

in the land use category and zoning classification. Yep.

classification. Yep. required to they are required to follow

required to they are required to follow all laws and ordinances.

all laws and ordinances. >> Can I ask one ordinance question? Does

>> Can I ask one ordinance question? Does the city of Post Falls have any

the city of Post Falls have any restrictions on beer and wine sales and

restrictions on beer and wine sales and proximity to schools?

>> I don't know off the top of my head. I think that's a liquor board question.

think that's a liquor board question. >> Well, liquor board for liquor, but beer

>> Well, liquor board for liquor, but beer and wine is city. Is it?

and wine is city. Is it? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I didn't know that.

>> Okay. I didn't know that. >> So, I wasn't sure

>> So, I wasn't sure >> if there were additional restrictions

>> if there were additional restrictions >> on the city side.

>> on the city side. >> Hopefully, they're carding the

>> Hopefully, they're carding the elementary kids.

elementary kids. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> All right. Number three, whether the

>> All right. Number three, whether the proposed use will or will not be

proposed use will or will not be compatible with the health, safety, and

compatible with the health, safety, and welfare of the public or with the land

welfare of the public or with the land uses in the vicinity of the proposal.

uses in the vicinity of the proposal. I see serious safety issues with over

I see serious safety issues with over 2,000 kids

2,000 kids going to a gas station in the morning

going to a gas station in the morning before school, at lunchtime,

before school, at lunchtime, after school. There may be crosswalks,

after school. There may be crosswalks, but kids are kids. They're going to run

but kids are kids. They're going to run across. They're not going to care about

across. They're not going to care about that.

that. with 2,000 kids, all the high school

with 2,000 kids, all the high school students that have cars, all the parents

students that have cars, all the parents that have cars, all the teachers that

that have cars, all the teachers that have cars, that is going to be a major

have cars, that is going to be a major cluster of people trying to get there.

cluster of people trying to get there. And it's not just the teenagers that

And it's not just the teenagers that might have some sense, but those little

might have some sense, but those little kids running across back and forth that

kids running across back and forth that street when the bell rings for school,

street when the bell rings for school, they're not going to care about red

they're not going to care about red lights, green lights. Um,

lights, green lights. Um, so I I was under the impression this was

so I I was under the impression this was together, the convenience store and the

together, the convenience store and the the gas the gas pumps, but it wasn't.

the gas the gas pumps, but it wasn't. But I I see down the road some kids

But I I see down the road some kids getting hit by cars because all that

getting hit by cars because all that traffic cuz that's where they're going

traffic cuz that's where they're going to hang out is right there.

to hang out is right there. So I think this is a terrible idea.

So I think this is a terrible idea. What what do you see the difference if

What what do you see the difference if if it's just a convenience store or if

if it's just a convenience store or if it's a convenience store with a gas

it's a convenience store with a gas station?

station? >> I don't think it should be either.

>> I don't think it should be either. >> How so?

>> How so? >> It's

>> It's >> please.

>> please. >> My concern is that the LC zone already

>> My concern is that the LC zone already says convenience store.

says convenience store. >> It can be a convenience store.

>> It can be a convenience store. >> Yeah. It says health, safety, and

>> Yeah. It says health, safety, and welfare.

welfare. >> Right. So the the LC zone allows for a

>> Right. So the the LC zone allows for a convenience store. It just requires a

convenience store. It just requires a special use permit for gas pumps. I

special use permit for gas pumps. I mean, they

mean, they >> I I have to agree. I I think a gas

>> I I have to agree. I I think a gas station is a bad idea there. Um there

station is a bad idea there. Um there are a lot of kids there. Um I

are a lot of kids there. Um I convenience store. I don't know for it

convenience store. I don't know for it could be okay. The kiddos going to high

could be okay. The kiddos going to high school would love it and a lot of people

school would love it and a lot of people that's in walking distance to their

that's in walking distance to their where they live and stuff. There's a lot

where they live and stuff. There's a lot of houses around there. It's walking

of houses around there. It's walking distance, but I live not too far from

distance, but I live not too far from there myself. And I travel that street a

there myself. And I travel that street a lot in the morning and in the afternoon.

lot in the morning and in the afternoon. And it's a 20 m an hour zone during

And it's a 20 m an hour zone during school or, you know, when kids are

school or, you know, when kids are present. And nobody hardly ever goes 20

present. And nobody hardly ever goes 20 miles an hour. So, I would really,

miles an hour. So, I would really, really be worried about a gas station

really be worried about a gas station being there and the extra traffic that a

being there and the extra traffic that a gas station would be in, you know, bring

gas station would be in, you know, bring in. Um, convenience store, like I said,

in. Um, convenience store, like I said, it's already zoned for that. So, we we

it's already zoned for that. So, we we can't really stop that. But, um I would

can't really stop that. But, um I would have a real problem with a gas station

have a real problem with a gas station going in there.

you know, when I back in 2018, I was probably only couple months on this

probably only couple months on this commission. And thinking back, that's

commission. And thinking back, that's why I asked the question earlier, the

why I asked the question earlier, the only reason we're kind of here today and

only reason we're kind of here today and this is not a residential area is

this is not a residential area is because of that jog. It does. That line

because of that jog. It does. That line runs all the way down pole line, all the

runs all the way down pole line, all the field stone. It actually goes through

field stone. It actually goes through the neighborhood that's right next door,

the neighborhood that's right next door, but I believe it's through the

but I believe it's through the underneath the street, which then gives

underneath the street, which then gives it that automatic easement where this

it that automatic easement where this one would be kind of kind of funky. Um,

one would be kind of kind of funky. Um, you know, commercial, you know, I'm kind

you know, commercial, you know, I'm kind of with the with Biggie Joe, like maybe

of with the with Biggie Joe, like maybe it'll be good. I think the gas station's

it'll be good. I think the gas station's going to create too much. Um, I also

going to create too much. Um, I also live in that area and I got a high

live in that area and I got a high schooler there and so I know how much

schooler there and so I know how much traffic is there during the school time

traffic is there during the school time in the morning and the afternoon.

in the morning and the afternoon. I think it just opens up too many uh too

I think it just opens up too many uh too many questions about safety and welfare

many questions about safety and welfare in that area. And then I think down the

in that area. And then I think down the street across from the h from the

street across from the h from the hospital or high school, there's also

hospital or high school, there's also another development going in. So that

another development going in. So that will increase traffic just a little bit

will increase traffic just a little bit too down there. So that's um that's my

too down there. So that's um that's my two cents.

I think when we have when we we look at this I mean the the real thing we're

this I mean the the real thing we're looking at well one thing that

looking at well one thing that maybe silence is deafening but the

maybe silence is deafening but the school district didn't mention any any

school district didn't mention any any traffic or safety concerns um having

traffic or safety concerns um having >> I was surprised by

>> I was surprised by >> um three schools within a half mile of

>> um three schools within a half mile of this location

this location um and so

um and so And I certainly do appreciate the safety

And I certainly do appreciate the safety concerns of everyone with regards to

concerns of everyone with regards to kids walking to school. Um, I designed

kids walking to school. Um, I designed Fieldstone subdivision. I designed uh

Fieldstone subdivision. I designed uh the Vineyard subdivision.

the Vineyard subdivision. Um, and those are, you know, having the

Um, and those are, you know, having the pedestrian connectivity is important.

pedestrian connectivity is important. um that goes with the subdivision with

um that goes with the subdivision with the gas station thing. Um and traffic

the gas station thing. Um and traffic associated with gas station.

associated with gas station. Um you know, they can outright put a

Um you know, they can outright put a Dutch Brothers in there and create just

Dutch Brothers in there and create just as much if not three times the traffic a

as much if not three times the traffic a gas station. It's going to generate

gas station. It's going to generate um on a and just do it completely

um on a and just do it completely outright without having to worry about

outright without having to worry about it. And I can just imagine the number of

it. And I can just imagine the number of high school kids who are going to get

high school kids who are going to get would get their their sugar caffeine fix

would get their their sugar caffeine fix on the way to school um by ripping into

on the way to school um by ripping into a a Dutch Brothers in that location. Um,

a a Dutch Brothers in that location. Um, I do see I do think that

I do see I do think that um it's going to develop as commercial

um it's going to develop as commercial and I think having a gas station at that

and I think having a gas station at that location

location uh where you know not not talking about

uh where you know not not talking about today but you know we're talking about

today but you know we're talking about in the future as this develops out and

in the future as this develops out and our community grows

our community grows that this is an intersection of two

that this is an intersection of two major or two major roads. is they're

major or two major roads. is they're arterials and

arterials and um that's typically where you find

um that's typically where you find convenience stores with gas stations is

convenience stores with gas stations is at those locations and I think um and I

at those locations and I think um and I think that's for that reason it's

think that's for that reason it's appropriate and I think the safety

appropriate and I think the safety mitigation comes to you know making sure

mitigation comes to you know making sure that during those times of days when

that during those times of days when there are a lot of pedestrians so school

there are a lot of pedestrians so school in school out um I do know that there

in school out um I do know that there are pedestrian crossing guards

are pedestrian crossing guards um in their shephering kids uh across

um in their shephering kids uh across the street. And I think that's an

the street. And I think that's an important function that the school

important function that the school district does and it's very appreciated

district does and it's very appreciated by us in the community. Um and I think

by us in the community. Um and I think that the pedestrian

that the pedestrian facilities that will be here will

facilities that will be here will mitigate the issues uh with regards to

mitigate the issues uh with regards to pedestrian safety and traffic going in

pedestrian safety and traffic going in and out of a commercial subdivision.

Does the school district ever ever go beyond neutral when they answer these?

beyond neutral when they answer these? >> I've seen them go both directions in my

>> I've seen them go both directions in my career.

career. >> You've been here a long time.

>> You've been here a long time. >> I have.

>> Chris, you have anything to add >> with the SUP?

>> with the SUP? I don't see anything in there that

I don't see anything in there that limits

the size of the gas station portion. I understand

of the gas station portion. I understand the convenience store portion, you know,

the convenience store portion, you know, code has specifics to that.

code has specifics to that. is

is should we be looking at or is it

should we be looking at or is it something we should consider looking at

something we should consider looking at is limiting the size of the gas station

is limiting the size of the gas station portion you know if we were to proceed

portion you know if we were to proceed because as an SUP I think we can do that

because as an SUP I think we can do that >> right

>> right um I think

um I think >> I don't know we should I'm just

>> I don't know we should I'm just >> no asking a question

>> no asking a question >> that's a that's a great question because

>> that's a that's a great question because the obviously right it's not a is it a

the obviously right it's not a is it a Flying J Maverick or is it a as they

Flying J Maverick or is it a as they show in their site land. Um

show in their site land. Um >> 7-Eleven

>> 7-Eleven >> 7-Eleven. So four pumps, right? So or

>> 7-Eleven. So four pumps, right? So or four pumps, so eight spots to fuel.

four pumps, so eight spots to fuel. >> So eight fuel locations.

>> So eight fuel locations. >> And we do have the ability to condition

>> And we do have the ability to condition this if you wanted to limit the number

this if you wanted to limit the number of pumps, limited the hours of operation

of pumps, limited the hours of operation or anything else if that was specific to

or anything else if that was specific to the gas station concerns. Um we do have

the gas station concerns. Um we do have that flexibility being a special use

that flexibility being a special use permit. I think we should at least

permit. I think we should at least consider it because when I look at this

consider it because when I look at this site plan, I see three fuel stations. So

site plan, I see three fuel stations. So that's 12 pumps

that's 12 pumps >> because that is that 12 because the one

>> because that is that 12 because the one we first saw was six but or was four,

we first saw was six but or was four, excuse me, the one that was in the

excuse me, the one that was in the >> I mean and we don't have I don't really

>> I mean and we don't have I don't really have scale here. So each one of those

have scale here. So each one of those would have normally, you know, when I

would have normally, you know, when I look at 71s or whatever, you've got two

look at 71s or whatever, you've got two on each side.

on each side. >> And if this is three of those,

>> And if this is three of those, >> okay, because I

>> okay, because I >> this is a different site plan than the

>> this is a different site plan than the one that they had in their presentation.

one that they had in their presentation. So the presentation is a little more

So the presentation is a little more refined. I believe had four or so it had

refined. I believe had four or so it had one, two, three, four islands,

one, two, three, four islands, >> two on each, I thought. Didn't you say?

>> two on each, I thought. Didn't you say? >> Yeah. Well, it had four

>> Yeah. Well, it had four >> tanks,

>> tanks, >> gas gas pumps with fueling on eight, so

>> gas gas pumps with fueling on eight, so spots for eight cars to fuel at once as

spots for eight cars to fuel at once as I believe that was on there.

Um, would you mind pulling up their presentation really quick, please?

>> So, you get eight cars in there at once. Right.

So my my thought would be if we were to proceed, there should be some wording in

proceed, there should be some wording in there that limits that

there that limits that to to what's shown there or shown here,

to to what's shown there or shown here, whatever it is,

whatever it is, >> right? I think that I think that's

>> right? I think that I think that's reasonable.

>> Any thoughts on what that wording should be?

be? >> That's a good question.

>> That's a good question. Well, even if you did allow that, then

Well, even if you did allow that, then you're going to have a long line of cars

you're going to have a long line of cars on both sides to that pump because

on both sides to that pump because that's the closest gas station to that

that's the closest gas station to that school.

school. So, however you do that, you're going to

So, however you do that, you're going to have a big line of cars right there and

have a big line of cars right there and little kids running in and out of that

little kids running in and out of that store.

store. >> And I'm I'm not disagreeing with you.

>> And I'm I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not even I'm just asking some

I'm not even I'm just asking some questions here.

I mean the reality is is if there is a long line it just speaks to the need for

long line it just speaks to the need for it in that location.

it in that location. >> That's true too.

>> That's true too. >> We need kids if the demand's there too.

>> We need kids if the demand's there too. So

>> well why don't we opine over that language and

opine over that language and >> okay

>> okay >> move on to the next one.

>> move on to the next one. >> All right. Uh number let's go to number

>> All right. Uh number let's go to number four since we've had quite a bit of

four since we've had quite a bit of discussion on number three and whether

discussion on number three and whether the proposed use will or will not comply

the proposed use will or will not comply with the goals and policies found within

with the goals and policies found within the comprehensive plan.

I see this one is both ways. Um you only goal six the uh goal six let's see

goal six the uh goal six let's see goal three walkability

goal three walkability uh

uh commercial services proximity to

commercial services proximity to residential

residential but then the um

there could be stuff I'm sure there's something about

something about there's an infill here that would be

there's an infill here that would be good there. But then

talk about safety, but then you know the connectivity. So there there's I think

connectivity. So there there's I think there's both pros and cons to this one.

>> Did anybody else have any thoughts on that one? We had some discussion about

that one? We had some discussion about underutilized property. um some

underutilized property. um some discussion both by the applicant and the

discussion both by the applicant and the staff as to uh the improvements uh that

staff as to uh the improvements uh that would be met uh by allowing this um

would be met uh by allowing this um although I think we've addressed some of

although I think we've addressed some of that in the subdivision approval. So um

that in the subdivision approval. So um well I mean one of the important parts

well I mean one of the important parts about and this is why they're coming

about and this is why they're coming together right um is that commercial

together right um is that commercial subdivisions generally don't happen

subdivisions generally don't happen unless they have an anchor tenant to

unless they have an anchor tenant to start them out right so no one spends

start them out right so no one spends the uh million plus dollars that they're

the uh million plus dollars that they're going to have to do on the frontage

going to have to do on the frontage improvements um to move that traffic

improvements um to move that traffic signal the mast arm

signal the mast arm um and foundation base and to put in the

um and foundation base and to put in the road widening and to put in the pathways

road widening and to put in the pathways and the swailes and the street trees uh

and the swailes and the street trees uh without there being an anchor tenant to

without there being an anchor tenant to um get that going to get them started.

um get that going to get them started. Um that just doesn't happen. And so the

Um that just doesn't happen. And so the reality is is that

reality is is that um these are the reason they're together

um these are the reason they're together is that they are part and parcel. And so

is that they are part and parcel. And so it goes to

it goes to goal six with regards to transportation.

goal six with regards to transportation. Um providing transportation

Um providing transportation infrastructure.

infrastructure. Um, that's a big one. And I think it al,

Um, that's a big one. And I think it al, you know, and that ties again back to

you know, and that ties again back to safety because even though the

safety because even though the conditional use permit is not

conditional use permit is not necessarily

necessarily directly involved with that, it's it's

directly involved with that, it's it's the reason they're doing the

the reason they're doing the subdivision.

subdivision. And

And so

so I think it hits policy 67 with regards

I think it hits policy 67 with regards to pedestrian connectivity.

to pedestrian connectivity. Um

and uh as well as you know infill infill development I mean Lonnie Bitman owned

development I mean Lonnie Bitman owned that property for I don't know 40 50

that property for I don't know 40 50 years and um and it's all the

years and um and it's all the development happened around him much to

development happened around him much to his chagrin

his chagrin and when he finally sold it um and and

and when he finally sold it um and and he he was the one who brought it in as

he he was the one who brought it in as limited

limited Um, so

Um, so you know, this is this is infill

you know, this is this is infill development and this has been planned

development and this has been planned since 2018

since 2018 and in some way, shape or form and this

and in some way, shape or form and this is the shape or form that we're seeing

is the shape or form that we're seeing tonight. So I think it meets

tonight. So I think it meets requirements or it meets our goals and

requirements or it meets our goals and policies with regards to infill

policies with regards to infill development as well, which is I think

development as well, which is I think really important. Um,

really important. Um, that's not the

that's not the It'd be nice to get that intersection

It'd be nice to get that intersection fully developed um and fully built out

fully developed um and fully built out so that it it functioned properly both

so that it it functioned properly both from a traffic standpoint as well as um

from a traffic standpoint as well as um a land use standpoint.

>> Okay, thank you. Or there's a motion. Anybody want to

Or there's a motion. Anybody want to >> I'll make a motion.

>> I'll make a motion. >> Well, any thoughts on eliminating

>> Well, any thoughts on eliminating limiting the uh number of pumps?

limiting the uh number of pumps? >> Chris, you brought that up. Did you have

>> Chris, you brought that up. Did you have any

any >> thoughts? I I was asking more as a

>> thoughts? I I was asking more as a question. I didn't have a specific

question. I didn't have a specific >> I mean, I do think it's appropriate to

>> I mean, I do think it's appropriate to limit the pumps to what they show in

limit the pumps to what they show in their site plan um in their in the

their site plan um in their in the presentation because, you know, that's

presentation because, you know, that's the that's the picture that we were

the that's the picture that we were sold, right? if you will. I mean, that's

sold, right? if you will. I mean, that's what they're that's where they're

what they're that's where they're >> staff report. You mean

>> staff report. You mean >> not the one staff report in the one in

>> not the one staff report in the one in the applicant's presentation

the applicant's presentation >> different

>> different >> that has

>> that has um the four spots. It it's a more

um the four spots. It it's a more refined site plan that allows for

refined site plan that allows for fueling of eight vehicles.

fueling of eight vehicles. Um

I think that you know just the fact that I mean I know when I drive by a gas

I mean I know when I drive by a gas station and it's full I go to the next

station and it's full I go to the next one. Yeah, that's exactly what I do,

one. Yeah, that's exactly what I do, too.

too. >> Um, so I mean other people do other

>> Um, so I mean other people do other things. I get that. So, but um limiting

things. I get that. So, but um limiting the number of gas pumps will limit the

the number of gas pumps will limit the volume of traffic going in and out.

volume of traffic going in and out. Really, the price will, but

>> So, Commissioner, um, do we know what that number was? It's unclear to me if

that number was? It's unclear to me if we were to impose a condition or make a

we were to impose a condition or make a motion with a condition of the limited

motion with a condition of the limited number of gas pumps. I think it's four

number of gas pumps. I think it's four pumps

pumps >> to four.

>> to four. >> We would limit it to

>> We would limit it to four pumps allowing for eight vehicles.

four pumps allowing for eight vehicles. >> That would be double-sided.

>> That would be double-sided. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Or double-sided pumps.

>> Or double-sided pumps. >> I'm just trying to make it clear for

>> I'm just trying to make it clear for what we are suggesting if that what were

what we are suggesting if that what were to be a condition on any motion.

to be a condition on any motion. >> The specificity helps. So, thank you.

>> The specificity helps. So, thank you. >> Yes.

>> Yes. Are there any specific um

Are there any specific um recommended staff recommended conditions

recommended staff recommended conditions on for the special use permit?

on for the special use permit? >> Not on this. I mean, we did hear some

>> Not on this. I mean, we did hear some issues with some lighting somebody did

issues with some lighting somebody did bring up. I mean, so there's you guys

bring up. I mean, so there's you guys could theoretically entertain like down

could theoretically entertain like down lighting, making sure that

lighting, making sure that >> isn't that part of our code?

>> isn't that part of our code? >> Um

>> Um >> downward directed.

>> downward directed. >> I think yeah, a new commercial

>> I think yeah, a new commercial >> that is in there.

>> that is in there. >> We don't limit pedestal lighting. I

>> We don't limit pedestal lighting. I don't think that's another thing that I

don't think that's another thing that I don't believe our code does do that

don't believe our code does do that though for standing pedestal lighting

though for standing pedestal lighting >> that low level or

>> that low level or >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> pedestrian stuff keeps people from

>> pedestrian stuff keeps people from tripping.

>> Any other thoughts or are we ready for a motion?

motion? >> No.

>> No. >> Somebody like to make a motion?

>> Somebody like to make a motion? >> I'll make one.

>> I'll make one. I move to deny River City Corners SUP

I move to deny River City Corners SUP file number 25-1

file number 25-1 finding that it does not meet the

finding that it does not meet the approval criteria in Post Falls

approval criteria in Post Falls Municipal Code 18.20.070

as outlined in our deliberation and direct staff to prepare a written reason

direct staff to prepare a written reason decision.

Oh, I second it. Second. >> Okay. And we have a second. Roll call,

>> Okay. And we have a second. Roll call, please.

please. >> Stephenson.

>> Stephenson. >> So, if we're voting to deny,

>> So, if we're voting to deny, yes would mean deny.

yes would mean deny. >> Correct.

>> Correct. >> All right. In that case, yes.

>> All right. In that case, yes. >> Kimble,

>> Kimble, >> no.

>> no. >> Wilhham,

>> Wilhham, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Shriber,

>> Shriber, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Carrie,

>> Carrie, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Okay.

>> Okay. All righty.

All righty. I think we're going to take a fivem

I think we're going to take a fivem minute recess.

All right, let's call the meeting back to order. Next hearing tonight is G2

to order. Next hearing tonight is G2 Development.

Development. We got a couple actions on that tonight.

We got a couple actions on that tonight. >> Yes. Good evening, commissioners. is

>> Yes. Good evening, commissioners. is John Manley, planning manager here with

John Manley, planning manager here with the city of Post Falls, presenting the

the city of Post Falls, presenting the G2 annexation, zone change and

G2 annexation, zone change and subdivision and their associated files

subdivision and their associated files is as you see there. Um

is as you see there. Um the owner of this is G2 Real Property

the owner of this is G2 Real Property Holdings LLC and the applicant is Scott

Holdings LLC and the applicant is Scott MacArthur. So there's three requests and

MacArthur. So there's three requests and you know I'll do my best to tell the

you know I'll do my best to tell the story from staff's perspective, but the

story from staff's perspective, but the first one is to annex approximately

first one is to annex approximately 10.05 05 acres. And your part of this

10.05 05 acres. And your part of this would be to review their requested

would be to review their requested residential mixed RM zoning and forward

residential mixed RM zoning and forward that on to city council. Then review

that on to city council. Then review their requested residential mixed as

their requested residential mixed as part of a zoning zone change request on

part of a zoning zone change request on approximately 8.3 acres and forward that

approximately 8.3 acres and forward that to council. So they'll both those both

to council. So they'll both those both requests you're not making the decision

requests you're not making the decision on it, but you're forwarding on a zoning

on it, but you're forwarding on a zoning recommendation to council. And the 8.3,

recommendation to council. And the 8.3, just for clarification, is already in

just for clarification, is already in the city.

the city. >> Yes, that's in the city.

>> Yes, that's in the city. >> And when you look at the subdivision,

>> And when you look at the subdivision, you could scratch your head and go, why

you could scratch your head and go, why is the subdivision 8.02, but yet the two

is the subdivision 8.02, but yet the two on the annexation don't sum to the 8.02?

on the annexation don't sum to the 8.02? And that's because of the rightway that

And that's because of the rightway that would be dedicated as part of the

would be dedicated as part of the annexation. So, okay.

annexation. So, okay. >> But the subdivision request is for the

>> But the subdivision request is for the 8.02 2 after rightaway and to do that

8.02 2 after rightaway and to do that with into 105 residential lots in that

with into 105 residential lots in that residential mix zone

residential mix zone >> 18.02

>> 18.02 >> 18

>> 18 >> 18.02

>> 18.02 Thanks.

Thanks. >> Sorry,

>> all that math and numbers. That's why we got to stick it to two items.

got to stick it to two items. >> I don't like confusing.

>> I don't like confusing. >> Math is bad.

>> Math is bad. >> So, the location of this is right here

>> So, the location of this is right here on the southeast corner of Singa and

on the southeast corner of Singa and East Horse Haven.

East Horse Haven. To the far east where you see air

To the far east where you see air annexation area B, that's that 10.05

annexation area B, that's that 10.05 acres. And then here you see the zone

acres. And then here you see the zone change request. That's that area A. And

change request. That's that area A. And then together they sum that 18 whatever

then together they sum that 18 whatever and change subdivision request

and change subdivision request >> post falls math.

>> post falls math. >> Yep.

>> Here's the surrounding zoning. So because the area A is in the city.

because the area A is in the city. That's why you see some yellow there. It

That's why you see some yellow there. It currently is the R1 zoning. Everything

currently is the R1 zoning. Everything to the west and to the south that's in

to the west and to the south that's in the city for the most part is R1. and a

the city for the most part is R1. and a little notch right to the north of Horse

little notch right to the north of Horse Haven.

Haven. Where you see near no color, that's an

Where you see near no color, that's an annexation request. So that's why

annexation request. So that's why there's no color. To the north of East

there's no color. To the north of East Horse Haven, you see that purple? That's

Horse Haven, you see that purple? That's the smart code zone. So that was I don't

the smart code zone. So that was I don't know the date in which that was that

know the date in which that was that came to the city, but that smart code

came to the city, but that smart code zone's been in the city for a bit. And

zone's been in the city for a bit. And the dark purple is the SC4 with the

the dark purple is the SC4 with the light purple the SC3. You see those lots

light purple the SC3. You see those lots are a little smaller in the SC4 that

are a little smaller in the SC4 that there is more of that rear that that

there is more of that rear that that allows for more density very akin to

allows for more density very akin to that what you see here that medium

that what you see here that medium density right there there's some medium

density right there there's some medium density R2 zoning and then a transition

density R2 zoning and then a transition to the north to that lighter purple

to the north to that lighter purple which is more like a single family

which is more like a single family zoning designation.

zoning designation. Everything to the east and south are

Everything to the east and south are larger properties or smaller properties

larger properties or smaller properties in the Coupney County for for their

in the Coupney County for for their jurisdiction.

Looking at the some additional information, the water provider would be

information, the water provider would be the Ross Point Water District. The

the Ross Point Water District. The currently on this there'd be more is

currently on this there'd be more is large lot single family. It's over the

large lot single family. It's over the Roth Prairie aquifer. For wastewater,

Roth Prairie aquifer. For wastewater, the city of Post Falls would be the

the city of Post Falls would be the service provider and there is capacity

service provider and there is capacity to serve it. For any existing structures

to serve it. For any existing structures there, it would be required for the

there, it would be required for the exist existing septic systems to be

exist existing septic systems to be abandoned

except for potentially you you'll see I'll go back. There is on this side a

I'll go back. There is on this side a pre-existing

pre-existing house that's on that. I've talked to the

house that's on that. I've talked to the applicant. The intent is for that house

applicant. The intent is for that house upon annexation and that farm to

upon annexation and that farm to continue that use until such time later

continue that use until such time later and then that's when that would

and then that's when that would transition in the second phase of that

transition in the second phase of that subdivision. We go into that later on.

subdivision. We go into that later on. For traffic, Horse Haven Avenue is along

For traffic, Horse Haven Avenue is along a northern boundary and it's a minor

a northern boundary and it's a minor collector and Seringa Street on the

collector and Seringa Street on the western boundary is a minor collector.

western boundary is a minor collector. Additional rights away would be needed

Additional rights away would be needed on Horse Haven Avenue as it would be

on Horse Haven Avenue as it would be part of the annexation. Here

part of the annexation. Here is your future land use designation. You

is your future land use designation. You see zone change area MB. Again, this is

see zone change area MB. Again, this is all in the low density and it allows up

all in the low density and it allows up to eight dwelling units per acre and the

to eight dwelling units per acre and the residential mix is an implementing zone

residential mix is an implementing zone in that future land use designation.

in that future land use designation. Here's the project site in proximity to

Here's the project site in proximity to the central island. That's the focus

the central island. That's the focus area that's in the comprehensive plan.

area that's in the comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan is divvied up

The comprehensive plan is divvied up into little portions and map and within

into little portions and map and within this post falls and because this area is

this post falls and because this area is a large county island in pocket it

a large county island in pocket it became it was denoted as a central

became it was denoted as a central island.

Looking at some of the principles of the central island. It looks at successful

central island. It looks at successful development of this area. What

development of this area. What incorporation will in city limits will

incorporation will in city limits will likely rely on the incentives rewarding

likely rely on the incentives rewarding developers with higher density or

developers with higher density or modified design standards in exchange

modified design standards in exchange for forward thinking integration of the

for forward thinking integration of the land into the surrounding context. So I

land into the surrounding context. So I believe this falls in line to their

believe this falls in line to their request for the RM.

request for the RM. The comprehensive goals for goal seven,

The comprehensive goals for goal seven, we don't specify everything tonight, but

we don't specify everything tonight, but we will highlight a couple. Goal seven

we will highlight a couple. Goal seven is plan for and establish types and

is plan for and establish types and quantities of land uses inf falls

quantities of land uses inf falls supporting community needs and a

supporting community needs and a long-term sustainability.

long-term sustainability. Some policies that may be considered

Some policies that may be considered consistent with that would be encourage

consistent with that would be encourage compatible infill development, encourage

compatible infill development, encourage annexation of county islands within a

annexation of county islands within a city. ensure that adequate land is

city. ensure that adequate land is available for future housing needs,

available for future housing needs, helping serve residents of all ages,

helping serve residents of all ages, incomes, and abilities through the

incomes, and abilities through the provisions of different types of

provisions of different types of housings and price levels.

Looking at goal six, maintain and improve Postfall's transportation

improve Postfall's transportation network on pace and concert with the

network on pace and concert with the needs and plans objectives. You see here

needs and plans objectives. You see here policies 24, 26, and policy 33.

policies 24, 26, and policy 33. More or less the three kind of come

More or less the three kind of come together as you know you look at

together as you know you look at annexations they help you again rideway

annexations they help you again rideway get the utility corridors they also

get the utility corridors they also allow you to create continuity with your

allow you to create continuity with your sidewalks trails and bicycle paths so

sidewalks trails and bicycle paths so they work together and meeting that goal

they work together and meeting that goal six

and I kind of highlighted them and left them on this image here to kind of look

them on this image here to kind of look at what would occur upon development on

at what would occur upon development on this they would improve seringa from the

this they would improve seringa from the southwest corner here northerly to the

southwest corner here northerly to the intersection of Seringa and Horse Haven.

intersection of Seringa and Horse Haven. So looking over to the image on this

So looking over to the image on this side of the screen, you can see that on

side of the screen, you can see that on the west side you have improvements.

the west side you have improvements. Then on the east side, that's that

Then on the east side, that's that section that does not have improvements.

section that does not have improvements. So that would that would be improved

So that would that would be improved with development.

with development. Looking at the 1300 feet of Horse Haven,

Looking at the 1300 feet of Horse Haven, that is this is looking easterly down on

that is this is looking easterly down on Horse Haven. So on the right you would

Horse Haven. So on the right you would upon development you would get frontage

upon development you would get frontage improvements along that as well. So that

improvements along that as well. So that would improve the

would improve the both the transportation corridors as

both the transportation corridors as well as creating that continuity and

well as creating that continuity and sidewalks and trails for this area.

sidewalks and trails for this area. Improving accessibility in that uh

Improving accessibility in that uh central island focus area.

Here is the three review criteria for a zone change. We've kind of gone over the

zone change. We've kind of gone over the first two. The last one I'll hold to the

first two. The last one I'll hold to the end as we're looking we did notice to

end as we're looking we did notice to all jurisdictions. So I'll address that.

all jurisdictions. So I'll address that. Then

Then do want to point out on compatibility

do want to point out on compatibility of the surrounding area. I'll go back to

of the surrounding area. I'll go back to I kind of mentioned this in a staff

I kind of mentioned this in a staff report that when you're looking at the

report that when you're looking at the subdivision later on, they do kind of go

subdivision later on, they do kind of go from larger lots along the south typical

from larger lots along the south typical single family and it transitions to the

single family and it transitions to the north along Horse Haven to more of that

north along Horse Haven to more of that cottage type product is what they're

cottage type product is what they're proposing. And you can see here

proposing. And you can see here that's akin to the medium density that's

that's akin to the medium density that's just on the north side of Horse Haven.

Now looking at the any other questions I have for the annexations of zone.

have for the annexations of zone. >> I do. Yep.

>> I do. Yep. >> Um so I think with residential mix it

>> Um so I think with residential mix it comes with a zoning development

comes with a zoning development agreement. Is that correct?

agreement. Is that correct? >> Yeah, we would incorporate that in the

>> Yeah, we would incorporate that in the annexation agreement.

annexation agreement. >> That's in the annexation agreement. And

>> That's in the annexation agreement. And is it appropriate to add things into

is it appropriate to add things into that at this point or is that a city

that at this point or is that a city council thing we should ask?

council thing we should ask? >> I think you can make recommendations

>> I think you can make recommendations that we would add as suggestions. I'll

that we would add as suggestions. I'll go and confer with Chris. He's nodding

go and confer with Chris. He's nodding yes. So yeah, you can

yes. So yeah, you can you guys could propose

you guys could propose language.

language. >> What's the plan for the existing septic

>> What's the plan for the existing septic at those houses that are there that are

at those houses that are there that are going to stay?

going to stay? >> I'll let the applicant chime in, but I

>> I'll let the applicant chime in, but I believe when they get up, I believe the

believe when they get up, I believe the house would stay on septic until such

house would stay on septic until such time it fails or the time it develops.

time it fails or the time it develops. And then phase one is zone A. So any

And then phase one is zone A. So any sort of if there is a septic out there

sort of if there is a septic out there on zone A, any existing house would get

on zone A, any existing house would get put on sanitary sewer or

put on sanitary sewer or they would have to be capped or

they would have to be capped or disbanded or whatever on the phase one.

disbanded or whatever on the phase one. >> Okay.

So, subdivision review. Here is the proposed subdivision. And here's that

proposed subdivision. And here's that referenced lot layout that I said along

referenced lot layout that I said along the western side. These are the more

the western side. These are the more typical single family type lots or more

typical single family type lots or more similar along this section of their

similar along this section of their proposed subdivision. So, along the

proposed subdivision. So, along the west, southern half, and the east half.

west, southern half, and the east half. >> Yep. Would you say that's R1?

>> Yep. Would you say that's R1? Um,

Um, >> I don't have those lots.

>> I don't have those lots. the size of the lots.

the size of the lots. >> I'll let the applicant uh when he comes

>> I'll let the applicant uh when he comes up

up >> say what the square footage and the lot

>> say what the square footage and the lot width,

width, >> but I think they're more similar to like

>> but I think they're more similar to like a typical R1.

a typical R1. >> Yeah, they're all 9,000 7,000

>> Yeah, they're all 9,000 7,000 >> 8,000,

>> 8,000, >> right?

>> right? >> Yes. 6,500 is the minimum lot size for

>> Yes. 6,500 is the minimum lot size for an R1. So, they're larger than a typical

an R1. So, they're larger than a typical R1.

R1. >> And they're all 60 ft wide, too.

>> And they're all 60 ft wide, too. So, it's halfway surrounded by bigger

So, it's halfway surrounded by bigger lots than what R1 would put.

lots than what R1 would put. >> Yeah. And then you have a city street

>> Yeah. And then you have a city street going through along this section and

going through along this section and then you have a city street going along

then you have a city street going along the north south here. They do propose I

the north south here. They do propose I believe a private road connecting it

believe a private road connecting it connecting to what their plan is for

connecting to what their plan is for cottage lots 62 cottage lots along the

cottage lots 62 cottage lots along the northern tier.

This is their they do have provide some open space. I'll go into the matrix on

open space. I'll go into the matrix on that. But with the RM and with the

that. But with the RM and with the cottage, they do require a certain

cottage, they do require a certain percentage of open space. And I wanted

percentage of open space. And I wanted to denote here the and I'll come back to

to denote here the and I'll come back to it later, the 70,730t

it later, the 70,730t of open space is what track day amounts

of open space is what track day amounts to.

So criteria one definite provisions have been made for water system and there's

been made for water system and there's adequate supply and I have in your staff

adequate supply and I have in your staff report exhibit A5 is that will serve

report exhibit A5 is that will serve letter for Ross Point irrigation to

letter for Ross Point irrigation to provide water.

provide water. Criteria two is is there sanitary sewer

Criteria two is is there sanitary sewer available and in the staff report we did

available and in the staff report we did denote that there's capacity

denote that there's capacity to provide services to this.

to provide services to this. Criteria three, the proposed streets are

Criteria three, the proposed streets are consistent with the transportation

consistent with the transportation element in the comprehensive plan.

element in the comprehensive plan. The subdivision should not have a

The subdivision should not have a negative impact on the transportation

negative impact on the transportation network. And I didn't note that the

network. And I didn't note that the roadways would dedicate the rights away

roadways would dedicate the rights away easements associated.

I do show here and the reason for this red box is so you can kind of see a long

red box is so you can kind of see a long term. Here's these blue the main access

term. Here's these blue the main access points ultimately for this project. And

points ultimately for this project. And it also they're looking at providing

it also they're looking at providing connectivity to the southeast portion.

connectivity to the southeast portion. So when those areas come into the city,

So when those areas come into the city, it would extend the the street network.

it would extend the the street network. So ultimately it would look like a

So ultimately it would look like a master plan community. That's the goal

master plan community. That's the goal at least.

And so that would be stubbing out to the south through these the county parcel

south through these the county parcel allowing those to develop.

Review criteria four is all areas of the proposed subdivision which may involve

proposed subdivision which may involve soil or topographic conditions

soil or topographic conditions presenting hazards.

presenting hazards. The sites over the

The sites over the cited the aquifer and there's no known

cited the aquifer and there's no known hazards.

Here is where that open space comes into play. Here the area of the proposed

play. Here the area of the proposed subdivision is zoned for the proposed

subdivision is zoned for the proposed use and the use conforms with the

use and the use conforms with the requirements found in the code. So when

requirements found in the code. So when planning looks at this and is

planning looks at this and is coordinating with is it a complete

coordinating with is it a complete application we start looking as well can

application we start looking as well can you meet the requirements for the

you meet the requirements for the residential mix zoning or the cottage

residential mix zoning or the cottage housing and you can see here they meet

housing and you can see here they meet both and it's not additive. So it's, you

both and it's not additive. So it's, you know, theoretically if you meet the 7%

know, theoretically if you meet the 7% open space, the cottage product is

open space, the cottage product is permitted outright in that and so you

permitted outright in that and so you don't necessarily have to in addition

don't necessarily have to in addition make that what they call here the

make that what they call here the 20,000. So I think this the intent of

20,000. So I think this the intent of this is for the applicant to show that

this is for the applicant to show that they're they're more than meeting both

they're they're more than meeting both those scenarios.

And then looking at some intent the residential mix I underlined here for

residential mix I underlined here for the residential mix zone. It's intended

the residential mix zone. It's intended to accommodate a mix of residential

to accommodate a mix of residential community the variety of housing types

community the variety of housing types of varying densities within the

of varying densities within the development and I've kind of already

development and I've kind of already gone over with the two types of lot

gone over with the two types of lot sizes and product that they intend to

sizes and product that they intend to do. And if you look in the context of

do. And if you look in the context of what was done with that smart code and I

what was done with that smart code and I believe I added that to your staff

believe I added that to your staff report as an exhibit collectively there

report as an exhibit collectively there is some diverse product in that area.

They do propose single family homes and so the intent would be condition the

so the intent would be condition the reference annexation agreement and

reference annexation agreement and development agreement to be um

development agreement to be um consistent with their application and

consistent with their application and provide um single family homes within

provide um single family homes within this area.

the cottage home residential performance standards here the purpose and then it's

standards here the purpose and then it's stated here in code and I referenced

stated here in code and I referenced that how cottage homes are permitted out

that how cottage homes are permitted out right here in the RM zoning district

review criteria six looks at the developer um paying for its fair share

developer um paying for its fair share and I cite here how impact fees and cath

and I cite here how impact fees and cath fees are paid at the time of building

fees are paid at the time of building permit to deal with the impacts to

permit to deal with the impacts to parks, public safety, streets, fire, EMS

parks, public safety, streets, fire, EMS and water reclamation facilities.

There's the agencies that were notified. Here's the comments.

Here's the comments. They're all remained uh neutral or no

They're all remained uh neutral or no utilities. They're Kuni County. They

utilities. They're Kuni County. They review at time of permitting and that's

review at time of permitting and that's common for them. They would they

common for them. They would they generally review the construction plans

generally review the construction plans and coordinate that prior to issues of

and coordinate that prior to issues of permits and they review the plat.

There's the six review criteria. There's the zone change review criteria

and once again there's a proposed subdivision plan. Any questions for me?

subdivision plan. Any questions for me? >> Lot five on

>> Lot five on the south part of that. That one's

the south part of that. That one's bigger. Maybe I missed this, but

bigger. Maybe I missed this, but >> yes,

>> yes, >> what's there?

>> what's there? >> That is a pre-existing home. And that is

>> That is a pre-existing home. And that is when I referenced that in phase one that

when I referenced that in phase one that that house would then have to be

that house would then have to be connected to sanitary sewer as part of

connected to sanitary sewer as part of phase one. I thought that was in the

phase one. I thought that was in the other lot. Okay.

other lot. Okay. >> Yeah. The other ones I referenced over

>> Yeah. The other ones I referenced over here, that's phase two. It's supposed to

here, that's phase two. It's supposed to be a two-phase project. So, sometime in

be a two-phase project. So, sometime in the future when um this side develops,

the future when um this side develops, that's when the desire would to be to

that's when the desire would to be to cook that up to sanitary sewer at that

cook that up to sanitary sewer at that time.

time. >> Gotcha. And then, while it doesn't look

>> Gotcha. And then, while it doesn't look like it on this subdivision,

like it on this subdivision, small neighborhood commercial is allowed

small neighborhood commercial is allowed in RM zoning. Is that correct?

in RM zoning. Is that correct? >> It is. And that's why they on that one

>> It is. And that's why they on that one slide where I would propose the

slide where I would propose the condition would be so that way they

condition would be so that way they don't come in later and change

don't come in later and change conditions of this is you know they

conditions of this is you know they present to you tonight single family

present to you tonight single family homes single family lots and then you

homes single family lots and then you condition accordingly.

condition accordingly. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Are all the cottage home lots at least

>> Are all the cottage home lots at least as they're laid out there are all of

as they're laid out there are all of them only access from given?

them only access from given? >> Yes. So all these would be accessed off

>> Yes. So all these would be accessed off the internal circulation. You'd have

the internal circulation. You'd have this Genden Avenue. Then you take this

this Genden Avenue. Then you take this private drive here, this lane.

private drive here, this lane. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And then you would access either the

>> And then you would access either the rear that would be fronting a green

rear that would be fronting a green space or the ones that are fronting the

space or the ones that are fronting the rightway along here. And so that's how

rightway along here. And so that's how kind of they would go through here.

kind of they would go through here. >> John, if I'm looking at this right, so

>> John, if I'm looking at this right, so Given Lane is basically a glorified

Given Lane is basically a glorified alley and all the lots fa the fronts of

alley and all the lots fa the fronts of the houses face either horse haven or

the houses face either horse haven or the open space. Is that correct?

the open space. Is that correct? >> Correct.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So they're out. So, okay, that

>> Okay. So they're out. So, okay, that makes sense. Thank you.

makes sense. Thank you. >> And they do provide parking along here.

>> And they do provide parking along here. The cottage homes do require 0.25

The cottage homes do require 0.25 off-site parking stalls per unit. And

off-site parking stalls per unit. And so, this is how the applicant decided to

so, this is how the applicant decided to meet that requirement.

>> Is there any on-site parking at the on the cottage homes?

the cottage homes? >> Well, they'll be required to meet the

>> Well, they'll be required to meet the two offsites per their units. So each

two offsites per their units. So each >> Yeah. So each one of there they have to

>> Yeah. So each one of there they have to have two for their lots.

have two for their lots. >> No different than any other single

>> No different than any other single family home.

family home. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So this this is their overflow parking.

>> So this this is their overflow parking. >> Overflow. Okay.

>> Overflow. Okay. >> And then the ones that are fronting on

>> And then the ones that are fronting on horse haven, they would have on street

horse haven, they would have on street parking adjacent to those lots in front

parking adjacent to those lots in front of their units.

>> And so there's only parking on one side there. is that you'd have parking on

there. is that you'd have parking on the um horse haven and then you'd have

the um horse haven and then you'd have these parking along this and

these parking along this and >> and then parking on the lots themselves.

>> and then parking on the lots themselves. >> Yep. Then you get two for each lot.

Then Horse Haven is improved. So it's kind of has that it's not a straight

kind of has that it's not a straight sidewalk. It's kind of

sidewalk. It's kind of >> Well, it's currently not improved in

>> Well, it's currently not improved in that image.

that image. >> Well, I know. It would be

>> Well, I know. It would be >> Yeah, it would be improved with curb

>> Yeah, it would be improved with curb swell and sidewalk. So, it's going to

swell and sidewalk. So, it's going to get widened at the time of development.

get widened at the time of development. >> But what I'm saying is it's kind of got

>> But what I'm saying is it's kind of got the like defined area like here's the

the like defined area like here's the parking a little bit off the actual main

parking a little bit off the actual main road. That's what those

road. That's what those >> is that what I'm looking at. Okay.

>> is that what I'm looking at. Okay. >> Well, that's their width of improvements

>> Well, that's their width of improvements where the actual striping and the

where the actual striping and the parking the parking lane is the south 8

parking the parking lane is the south 8 feet of that road section and then you'd

feet of that road section and then you'd still have your two travel lanes. Okay.

>> All right. >> What is up there in that corner?

>> What is up there in that corner? >> That existing house.

>> That existing house. >> This this corner

>> This this corner >> over up there. Yeah,

>> over up there. Yeah, >> that's Bob Gdon's old house.

>> that's Bob Gdon's old house. >> Not a part of existing house. It's not

>> Not a part of existing house. It's not part of the subdivision.

part of the subdivision. >> But okay. When this thing got annexed

>> But okay. When this thing got annexed in, there was a condition that the

in, there was a condition that the off-site improvements would be done at

off-site improvements would be done at the time of development. So, we will get

the time of development. So, we will get a completed intersection with

a completed intersection with development of this.

development of this. >> Okay,

>> Okay, >> it's good for thought.

>> Every now and then, >> right, it all comes together sometimes.

>> Hi, good evening. Scott MacArthur, MacArthur Engineering, here tonight on

MacArthur Engineering, here tonight on behalf of G2 Real Property Holdings LLC.

behalf of G2 Real Property Holdings LLC. uh we're talking about the G2

uh we're talking about the G2 development of we worked uh closely with

development of we worked uh closely with staff uh to uh to come up with a way to

staff uh to uh to come up with a way to implement uh our client's desired

implement uh our client's desired layout.

layout. Uh as Mr. Manley mentioned uh these two

Uh as Mr. Manley mentioned uh these two properties are in question here tonight

properties are in question here tonight with the yellow star signifying the R1

with the yellow star signifying the R1 zoned property that's in the city and

zoned property that's in the city and the uh pink star signifying the uh

the uh pink star signifying the uh requested annexation property.

requested annexation property. Uh currently the uh property to the east

Uh currently the uh property to the east the is zone a suburban uh innney county

the is zone a suburban uh innney county um as are the properties east of that uh

um as are the properties east of that uh which are single family residential

which are single family residential homes that uh it's highly unlikely that

homes that uh it's highly unlikely that we'll see those in my lifetime come into

we'll see those in my lifetime come into the city. Um the uh property to the

the city. Um the uh property to the north of that a subpropy is uh smart

north of that a subpropy is uh smart code uh very high density uh development

code uh very high density uh development uh attached structures attached units.

uh attached structures attached units. Um you have some R2 zoning as well with

Um you have some R2 zoning as well with some duplex units there in the orange

some duplex units there in the orange and then you have some R1 zone

and then you have some R1 zone properties uh to the west of that. Um

properties uh to the west of that. Um the R1 zone property right now that

the R1 zone property right now that we're that's in question uh has a single

we're that's in question uh has a single family residence with uh out structures

family residence with uh out structures and it's uh farmed on a routine basis as

and it's uh farmed on a routine basis as is the a sub property that's in the

is the a sub property that's in the county. Uh this is infill property. Uh

county. Uh this is infill property. Uh and as Mr. Manley mentioned um this uh

and as Mr. Manley mentioned um this uh area is in need of improvements to the

area is in need of improvements to the infrastructure to accommodate the

infrastructure to accommodate the traffic that we now have. It's also

traffic that we now have. It's also important to note that Horse Haven is a

important to note that Horse Haven is a corridor for Ross Point Water District.

corridor for Ross Point Water District. Uh, and this development will improve

Uh, and this development will improve the water system through this area.

the water system through this area. We'll get to that later on.

We'll get to that later on. Uh, again, just a quick slide just to

Uh, again, just a quick slide just to show the uh existing zonings and the

show the uh existing zonings and the requested zoning. So, you have some uh

requested zoning. So, you have some uh existing R1 zones, smart code, and we're

existing R1 zones, smart code, and we're requesting uh the residential mix zone

requesting uh the residential mix zone for this 18.02 acres.

for this 18.02 acres. Uh as Mr. Manley showed you, the uh

Uh as Mr. Manley showed you, the uh proposed subdivision,

proposed subdivision, uh we are limiting ourselves to the uh

uh we are limiting ourselves to the uh eight units per acre and we're working

eight units per acre and we're working with the city um to accommodate the

with the city um to accommodate the existing use to remain in place on the

existing use to remain in place on the uh western or excuse me, the eastern 10

uh western or excuse me, the eastern 10 acres of property uh that has a uh a

acres of property uh that has a uh a longtime resident uh who still uh farms

longtime resident uh who still uh farms that property and and has cattle and and

that property and and has cattle and and grazing. um that exists there until such

grazing. um that exists there until such time as he chooses to move. Yes.

time as he chooses to move. Yes. >> So, I've already asked this question,

>> So, I've already asked this question, but I'm ask you, you're the engineer.

but I'm ask you, you're the engineer. >> So, kind of all the way around and all

>> So, kind of all the way around and all up that side

up that side >> that would qualify as R1 right now.

>> that would qualify as R1 right now. >> Um

>> Um >> the size,

>> the size, >> correct? From from here on the east,

>> correct? From from here on the east, it's adjacent to similar 8,250 foot lots

it's adjacent to similar 8,250 foot lots here on in the county, but here on the

here on in the county, but here on the east, you you have roughly well, you

east, you you have roughly well, you have 43 single family homes that far

have 43 single family homes that far exceed the 6,500 foot minimum

exceed the 6,500 foot minimum requirement. Correct.

requirement. Correct. >> Uh this entire property could be

>> Uh this entire property could be developed with 6,500 foot lots, no open

developed with 6,500 foot lots, no open space, no traffic or, you know, no

space, no traffic or, you know, no empty.

empty. >> How many houses would that be?

>> How many houses would that be? >> It's hard to say.

>> It's hard to say. >> Estimation

>> Estimation >> six per acre.

>> six per acre. >> Yeah. Yeah. you're looking at five five

>> Yeah. Yeah. you're looking at five five units per acre. So, yeah, you know,

units per acre. So, yeah, you know, you're looking at a significant amount

you're looking at a significant amount of home. I mean, that's that's what

of home. I mean, that's that's what we're looking at the trade-off here for

we're looking at the trade-off here for the for the affordable opportunities,

the for the affordable opportunities, right?

right? >> Uh that can also share and be as serve

>> Uh that can also share and be as serve as a buffer between the high density to

as a buffer between the high density to the north and the uh requested existing

the north and the uh requested existing R1 to the south, east, and west.

R1 to the south, east, and west. >> So, would I be close to say that if it

>> So, would I be close to say that if it was just R1, you'd still have about the

was just R1, you'd still have about the same amount of houses?

same amount of houses? >> It's fairly close. Correct. Yeah.

>> It's fairly close. Correct. Yeah. Uh so again, here's a different look at

Uh so again, here's a different look at the proposed subdivision. Uh we've

the proposed subdivision. Uh we've provided the city with a preliminary

provided the city with a preliminary grading plan, uh storm water management

grading plan, uh storm water management plan, sanitary sewer plan, and water

plan, sanitary sewer plan, and water infrastructure plan.

infrastructure plan. Um here's the sewer plan. As as

Um here's the sewer plan. As as discussed before, this existing home

discussed before, this existing home here, there's several residences that

here, there's several residences that live on this property. Uh at the time of

live on this property. Uh at the time of development, this is a at least

development, this is a at least two-phase development. We're mentioned

two-phase development. We're mentioned two phases in the request. It's a at

two phases in the request. It's a at least two phases. I think that's the

least two phases. I think that's the language that we'd like to have in the

language that we'd like to have in the record tonight is something we discussed

record tonight is something we discussed with the city. Uh we originally looked

with the city. Uh we originally looked at starting the development with the

at starting the development with the west 8 plus acres moving into the 10

west 8 plus acres moving into the 10 acres to the east. However, depending on

acres to the east. However, depending on the occupancy uh remaining that existing

the occupancy uh remaining that existing home, uh it could turn into a three or

home, uh it could turn into a three or four phase development.

But that existing home is on a septic and that septic would be removed at the

and that septic would be removed at the time of development of that property. Uh

time of development of that property. Uh this or failure I guess of that existing

this or failure I guess of that existing system. Uh this existing home here is

system. Uh this existing home here is occupied by one of my clients uh one of

occupied by one of my clients uh one of the property owners. Uh and their home

the property owners. Uh and their home is planned to remain if you can see that

is planned to remain if you can see that sorry the mouse. Uh I believe there was

sorry the mouse. Uh I believe there was a question about that. They it will be

a question about that. They it will be connected to sewer at the time of

connected to sewer at the time of development. this existing home here. Uh

development. this existing home here. Uh there provisions in the plan to connect

there provisions in the plan to connect that home to sanitary sewer as well as

that home to sanitary sewer as well as well as the frontage improvements that

well as the frontage improvements that will be completed across that property

will be completed across that property as part of the annexation agreement that

as part of the annexation agreement that originally brought that property into

originally brought that property into the city.

the city. >> If this was approved RM

>> If this was approved RM >> could you walk right back around and

>> could you walk right back around and change that to apartments?

change that to apartments? >> Not with I don't believe without a a

>> Not with I don't believe without a a request for an amendment to the

request for an amendment to the approval.

approval. >> Correct.

>> Correct. And as it sits right now, there is no

And as it sits right now, there is no attached structures. These are all

attached structures. These are all standalone single family residential

standalone single family residential homes, which is consistent with what I

homes, which is consistent with what I think the intent of the R1 zone uh is.

think the intent of the R1 zone uh is. However, we're providing a significant

However, we're providing a significant amount of open space to to offset the

amount of open space to to offset the reduced lot sizes.

reduced lot sizes. >> Mr. McCarth?

>> Mr. McCarth? >> Yes, sir.

>> Yes, sir. >> Um I saw on your in your data table that

>> Um I saw on your in your data table that you're at 5.83 dwelling units per acre

you're at 5.83 dwelling units per acre on this. I want to make sure that's

on this. I want to make sure that's accurate before I ask you the next

accurate before I ask you the next question. I believe there's eight units

question. I believe there's eight units per acre.

per acre. >> It's eight units per acre. Okay.

>> It's eight units per acre. Okay. >> Um

Okay. Um would so if I'm understanding this

would so if I'm understanding this right, so if residential mix RM zone,

right, so if residential mix RM zone, um your client would be okay with a

um your client would be okay with a condition of no multif family

condition of no multif family development, attached multif family and

development, attached multif family and no commercial. That is correct.

no commercial. That is correct. >> And a density limitation of eight units

>> And a density limitation of eight units per acre.

per acre. >> I believe that I think that's correct

>> I believe that I think that's correct with consistent with the RM zoning. Is

with consistent with the RM zoning. Is that correct?

that correct? >> The RM zoning doesn't have a density.

>> The RM zoning doesn't have a density. >> It does not have a density.

>> It does not have a density. >> Does not have a density.

>> Does not have a density. >> I believe we discussed eight units per

>> I believe we discussed eight units per acre being our uh requested limitation

acre being our uh requested limitation >> which would be what the comprehensive

>> which would be what the comprehensive plan

plan >> correct. Yeah. Excuse me. Y

>> correct. Yeah. Excuse me. Y >> okay.

I I agree with the limitations that Ray

I agree with the limitations that Ray was just talking about. No multifamily

was just talking about. No multifamily if there's conditions put on this if it

if there's conditions put on this if it was approved.

was approved. >> And and I think once we get a little bit

>> And and I think once we get a little bit further into the presentation, I think

further into the presentation, I think you'll understand the intent of the

you'll understand the intent of the development is to provide uh that much

development is to provide uh that much needed opportunity for single family

needed opportunity for single family residential ownership, not rental

residential ownership, not rental opportunities uh that come with the you

opportunities uh that come with the you know there there's an area that is in

know there there's an area that is in need of that multif family. I live

need of that multif family. I live within a half mile of this development.

within a half mile of this development. Uh I do not prefer to have that in this

Uh I do not prefer to have that in this area additional in this area.

area additional in this area. So here's a typical R1 type lot layout.

So here's a typical R1 type lot layout. Uh this is lot 12. Uh backs up to the

Uh this is lot 12. Uh backs up to the open space. That's about a 4,000 square

open space. That's about a 4,000 square footprint

footprint on the ground uh for a typical R1 home.

on the ground uh for a typical R1 home. I don't anticipate a home of that size

I don't anticipate a home of that size being constructed there, but this is

being constructed there, but this is what you could build with your rear

what you could build with your rear patio, with your front porch. Uh, all

patio, with your front porch. Uh, all meeting City of Post Falls allowable

meeting City of Post Falls allowable setbacks

setbacks consistent with the R1 zoning. This is

consistent with the R1 zoning. This is your typical

your typical cottage home. Uh, the lots that we're

cottage home. Uh, the lots that we're proposing are 30 foot wide. Uh, we meet

proposing are 30 foot wide. Uh, we meet the requirements with this layout. Uh

the requirements with this layout. Uh that is an 882 square footprint

that is an 882 square footprint uh consistent with previous approvals

uh consistent with previous approvals actually exceeding previous approvals

actually exceeding previous approvals for projects in the city uh for the

for projects in the city uh for the cottage home development.

cottage home development. Uh this is a typical image of what we're

Uh this is a typical image of what we're proposing. Uh you could put a two-story

proposing. Uh you could put a two-story product here, but right now this is a a

product here, but right now this is a a typical approval with the front loaded

typical approval with the front loaded to the park, open space or rideway. Uh

to the park, open space or rideway. Uh the rear loaded access to a garage

the rear loaded access to a garage uh to off- streetet parking. And I would

uh to off- streetet parking. And I would like to go back real fast to the uh

like to go back real fast to the uh parking question that was raised earlier

parking question that was raised earlier as well. So, in addition to the required

as well. So, in addition to the required uh

uh supportive parking, I would say for

supportive parking, I would say for cottage homes, we also have six

cottage homes, we also have six additional spaces in the middle adjacent

additional spaces in the middle adjacent to open space with a sidewalk connecting

to open space with a sidewalk connecting to Horse Haven. We also have some off-

to Horse Haven. We also have some off- streetet designated off- streetet uh

streetet designated off- streetet uh parking that's uh going to be provided

parking that's uh going to be provided uh near the open space park and kind of

uh near the open space park and kind of a mix between the single family use.

a mix between the single family use. It's all single family, but the the

It's all single family, but the the larger single family lots and the

larger single family lots and the smaller single family lots.

smaller single family lots. So again, uh why obtainable housing? Uh

So again, uh why obtainable housing? Uh it's needed. U I want my kids to return

it's needed. U I want my kids to return here and own a home. I want them to be

here and own a home. I want them to be able to afford that opportunity. We

able to afford that opportunity. We don't have a lot of that opportunity. We

don't have a lot of that opportunity. We have one development in the city right

have one development in the city right now, two developments I should say, that

now, two developments I should say, that I know of that are being developed with

I know of that are being developed with that type of product. Um, I think this

that type of product. Um, I think this area is conducive for that and uh and

area is conducive for that and uh and that's why I bring it forward tonight to

that's why I bring it forward tonight to you. Uh, I I know a lot of uh veterans

you. Uh, I I know a lot of uh veterans and um seniors in the area that need uh

and um seniors in the area that need uh lowmaintenance affordable housing. They

lowmaintenance affordable housing. They don't need a 4,000 square foot square

don't need a 4,000 square foot square foot home. They need something that they

foot home. They need something that they can live in, be proud of with ownership.

can live in, be proud of with ownership. So that's why uh we bring this forward

So that's why uh we bring this forward tonight. Again, it's a transition from

tonight. Again, it's a transition from your higher density on the north side of

your higher density on the north side of Horse Haven through the south side of

Horse Haven through the south side of Horse Haven into your larger R1 size

Horse Haven into your larger R1 size lots. Uh with this development

lots. Uh with this development requirement comes amenities and open

requirement comes amenities and open space requirements. uh sidewalks,

space requirements. uh sidewalks, typical image of what our frontage

typical image of what our frontage sidewalk would look like. The homes

sidewalk would look like. The homes would have access to this sidewalk

would have access to this sidewalk through our open space. Um

through our open space. Um and that this sidewalk would uh traverse

and that this sidewalk would uh traverse from this private road section through

from this private road section through the property and connect to the sidewalk

the property and connect to the sidewalk along our north south street and it

along our north south street and it would also provide an inner block

would also provide an inner block connection to Horse Haven as well.

connection to Horse Haven as well. um the timing of this connection and the

um the timing of this connection and the timing of the completion of that

timing of the completion of that sidewalk would all be based on the

sidewalk would all be based on the phasing um and allowable uh density uh

phasing um and allowable uh density uh for single point of access.

So uh as Mr. mainly stated uh and I won't reiterate um I believe it's been

won't reiterate um I believe it's been well covered. Uh we do meet the four re

well covered. Uh we do meet the four re uh criteria for annexation for our east

uh criteria for annexation for our east 10.05 acres. Uh I can go through those

10.05 acres. Uh I can go through those if you would like, but I think we've

if you would like, but I think we've covered those well in our narrative and

covered those well in our narrative and Mr. Manley's staff report and as his

Mr. Manley's staff report and as his presentation stated, uh those are met.

presentation stated, uh those are met. Uh the three zone change criteria.

Uh the three zone change criteria. Again, uh the request for the zone

Again, uh the request for the zone change comes on the request for

change comes on the request for annexation. We think it's it's a best

annexation. We think it's it's a best fit for the property. We feel it's a

fit for the property. We feel it's a conducive use to what's surrounding. Uh

conducive use to what's surrounding. Uh it's a nice transition to what we expect

it's a nice transition to what we expect to occur to be developed along 16th

to occur to be developed along 16th Avenue uh at some point in the future.

Avenue uh at some point in the future. Uh and then you're looking at your six

Uh and then you're looking at your six subdivision approval criteria. Again, uh

subdivision approval criteria. Again, uh each item has been addressed in the

each item has been addressed in the narrative and in Mr. Manley's

narrative and in Mr. Manley's presentation. I don't want to reiterate

presentation. I don't want to reiterate those again. I think we've uh addressed

those again. I think we've uh addressed each item sufficiently and we meet all

each item sufficiently and we meet all the requirements and I will stand for

the requirements and I will stand for questions.

questions. >> Hey, Scott.

>> Hey, Scott. >> Yes. on the um condition on the

>> Yes. on the um condition on the subdivision about two or more phases. Um

subdivision about two or more phases. Um would you be open to an additional

would you be open to an additional condition that says prior to commencing

condition that says prior to commencing phase three that the open space would be

phase three that the open space would be completed and the frontage improvements

completed and the frontage improvements would be completed and or bonded for?

I think the only concern I have with that is the location of the existing

that is the location of the existing structures along Horse Haven that

structures along Horse Haven that encroach into

encroach into >> That's why the bonded for so you

>> That's why the bonded for so you wouldn't have to complete it.

wouldn't have to complete it. >> Yeah, I think the bonded for would be

>> Yeah, I think the bonded for would be sufficient. Yeah.

sufficient. Yeah. >> So that way you

>> So that way you >> Yeah, because I that's where I want

>> Yeah, because I that's where I want added that because I the sensitivity to

added that because I the sensitivity to our previous conversations. So

our previous conversations. So >> I think that would be um that would be

>> I think that would be um that would be consistent with uh our intent. I think

consistent with uh our intent. I think that'd be great. concern I have is you

that'd be great. concern I have is you get three quarters through and then you

get three quarters through and then you have outstanding obligations and then if

have outstanding obligations and then if the project fell apart then you know

the project fell apart then you know then it puts the city in an awkward

then it puts the city in an awkward position

position >> and I think it's a similar statement as

>> and I think it's a similar statement as uh at the time of annexation of the

uh at the time of annexation of the western 10 the original 10 acres that

western 10 the original 10 acres that was annexed into the city as R1 uh the

was annexed into the city as R1 uh the intent at the time of development was to

intent at the time of development was to complete the improvements at that

complete the improvements at that intersection and we don't want to forgo

intersection and we don't want to forgo those improvements so I think that's I

those improvements so I think that's I think that condition andor bonded for

think that condition andor bonded for would appropriate

would appropriate >> two for two on the forethought.

>> Uh Mr. MacArthur. >> Yes, sir.

>> Yes, sir. >> Um I got a question for you and I'm

>> Um I got a question for you and I'm going to preface it by saying that um I

going to preface it by saying that um I appreciate the fact that this is an

appreciate the fact that this is an attempt to provide affordable housing

attempt to provide affordable housing and private roads are a double-edged

and private roads are a double-edged sword.

sword. >> Correct.

>> Correct. >> Right. Mhm.

>> Right. Mhm. >> Because they're great now and in 30

>> Because they're great now and in 30 years from now and I happen to live on

years from now and I happen to live on one and you know that um

one and you know that um they require replacement and then people

they require replacement and then people come to the city and they say, "Hey, we

come to the city and they say, "Hey, we take over my road um because we don't

take over my road um because we don't have enough money to replace it." And

have enough money to replace it." And usually, at least in most cases, it's

usually, at least in most cases, it's because the development and the

because the development and the homeowners association was not set up to

homeowners association was not set up to properly fund

properly fund um road maintenance and eventual s

um road maintenance and eventual s resurfacing and whatnot. And so should

resurfacing and whatnot. And so should this get to an approval point tonight,

this get to an approval point tonight, would you and I'm gonna

would you and I'm gonna I wrote this a little bit earlier. So

I wrote this a little bit earlier. So would you be okay with a condition that

would you be okay with a condition that said with regards to the private roads

said with regards to the private roads the developer

the developer is would provide for a mechanism within

is would provide for a mechanism within the CCNRs for a road maintenance and

the CCNRs for a road maintenance and eventual for road maintenance and

eventual for road maintenance and eventual resurfacing

eventual resurfacing and shall provide for a funding

and shall provide for a funding mechanism to adequately fund those

mechanism to adequately fund those maintenance costs in addition to and

maintenance costs in addition to and separate from other HOA expenses.

separate from other HOA expenses. So like a syncing fund for capex.

So like a syncing fund for capex. >> Yeah, it's a sinking fund for the

>> Yeah, it's a sinking fund for the streets. That's aside from the

streets. That's aside from the maintenance for the

maintenance for the the

the open space and grass and mowing and

open space and grass and mowing and whatever else the snow plowing and the m

whatever else the snow plowing and the m the that stuff that at least provide for

the that stuff that at least provide for a mechanism so it happens so that it it

a mechanism so it happens so that it it doesn't set them up for failure. Could I

doesn't set them up for failure. Could I make that condition read uh that a

make that condition read uh that a seeking fund analysis can be completed

seeking fund analysis can be completed with staff prior to the development of

with staff prior to the development of the private road improvements or lots

the private road improvements or lots adjacent to private road improvements?

adjacent to private road improvements? >> I mean, however you put the mechanism

>> I mean, however you put the mechanism into the CCNRs, I'm just asking for

into the CCNRs, I'm just asking for there to be a mechanism within the CCNRs

there to be a mechanism within the CCNRs that provides for and funds. How that is

that provides for and funds. How that is divided up amongst the lots is

divided up amongst the lots is completely up to I would say the

completely up to I would say the developer but

developer but >> I think for mechanism

>> I think for mechanism >> and sorry I think my concern and and

>> and sorry I think my concern and and you've dealt with similar projects like

you've dealt with similar projects like this uh my concern is um the way the

this uh my concern is um the way the CCNRs are are written um

I I I don't disagree. I think we can do it. Let's simplify it. Let's keep the

it. Let's simplify it. Let's keep the sinking point. Yes. Let's let's analyze

sinking point. Yes. Let's let's analyze it that way. I think you can get

it that way. I think you can get creative enough to make it work. It's

creative enough to make it work. It's just it's something that needs to be

just it's something that needs to be there for private roads.

there for private roads. >> I think that over time with my

>> I think that over time with my experience, I I think that uh we've

experience, I I think that uh we've learned what not to do and what to do

learned what not to do and what to do with those situations. I too lived on a

with those situations. I too lived on a private uh in a private development in

private uh in a private development in the Greenside Vistas area when I first

the Greenside Vistas area when I first uh showed up uh back at home after

uh showed up uh back at home after college. And um that was one of the

college. And um that was one of the problems that we did have at that time

problems that we did have at that time is the developer um had to step in and

is the developer um had to step in and he did step up uh another local

he did step up uh another local developer and he took care of the

developer and he took care of the private roads until such time as our HOA

private roads until such time as our HOA could get on their feet um outside of

could get on their feet um outside of his original commitment which was

his original commitment which was helpful. So I think that could be uh

helpful. So I think that could be uh taken care of in the CCNRs. Yes.

taken care of in the CCNRs. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you.

>> Okay. Thank you. We so we've been advised not to do that

We so we've been advised not to do that in the past

in the past that we we can't

that we we can't require that

require that >> it would be yeah we would condition it

>> it would be yeah we would condition it on our CCNRs

on our CCNRs >> or as a part of our

>> or as a part of our >> I specifically asked for it on other

>> I specifically asked for it on other projects

projects >> have you

>> have you >> and said we can't do that

>> and said we can't do that >> I'm looking at council here now if I was

>> I'm looking at council here now if I was speaking out of turn

speaking out of turn >> well

>> well generally we don't well we don't enforce

generally we don't well we don't enforce CCNRs private agreement among landos or

CCNRs private agreement among landos or anything else how they I mean I can see

anything else how they I mean I can see it being tied to the future city

it being tied to the future city acceptance of abandoned private

acceptance of abandoned private roadways. So, as a condition of approval

roadways. So, as a condition of approval that the developer shall include in in

that the developer shall include in in their CCNRs. I mean, we already have

their CCNRs. I mean, we already have them. In fact, I think there's a

them. In fact, I think there's a recommendation currently for

recommendation currently for homeowners association being formed for

homeowners association being formed for the ownership and maintenance of the

the ownership and maintenance of the internal private roadway and tract A. I

internal private roadway and tract A. I don't remember Mr. Shriber's previous re

don't remember Mr. Shriber's previous re uh discussion on that issue, but I think

uh discussion on that issue, but I think you can include in that condition if

you can include in that condition if it's amendable to this uh type of a

it's amendable to this uh type of a situation that uh they provide for

situation that uh they provide for future funding of the roadway to be

future funding of the roadway to be maintained by the HOA as well. You know,

maintained by the HOA as well. You know, something

something >> fantastic. I would love to have it on.

>> fantastic. I would love to have it on. Anytime we have a private road, we are

Anytime we have a private road, we are facing a nightmare in the future.

facing a nightmare in the future. >> Yeah. The reality is the city gets

>> Yeah. The reality is the city gets petitioned for these and we have a new

petitioned for these and we have a new policy. The city has this acceptance of

policy. The city has this acceptance of private roadway policy where the city

private roadway policy where the city council looks at these and says, "Yeah,

council looks at these and says, "Yeah, is this in the best interest of the the

is this in the best interest of the the citizens to accept this private roadway,

citizens to accept this private roadway, bring it up to standards and alleviate

bring it up to standards and alleviate this prior HOA's burden that never

this prior HOA's burden that never really took off." And just to elaborate

really took off." And just to elaborate on that, the private roadway that um the

on that, the private roadway that um the cottage home development and the private

cottage home development and the private roadway have uh we're working on that

roadway have uh we're working on that path forward, right? There's a standard

path forward, right? There's a standard in the city. Uh recently we had a

in the city. Uh recently we had a project approved for uh cottage homes.

project approved for uh cottage homes. Uh we weren't expecting it, but we know

Uh we weren't expecting it, but we know the reason for it. We've now since uh

the reason for it. We've now since uh revised our plan set to include

revised our plan set to include sidewalks. Uh kind of more of an updated

sidewalks. Uh kind of more of an updated private road standard, not an alley.

private road standard, not an alley. It's uh you know there's there's

It's uh you know there's there's improvements that that are being made

improvements that that are being made that I think

that I think while um there are struggles in the city

while um there are struggles in the city I think there's um reason to to make

I think there's um reason to to make these improvements because everyone in

these improvements because everyone in this particular development will

this particular development will actually have to use this road and and

actually have to use this road and and so I think when you have a stake in it

so I think when you have a stake in it in this particular cottage home portion

in this particular cottage home portion of the development when you have that

of the development when you have that kind of stake in it I think you

kind of stake in it I think you understand the importance and you set

understand the importance and you set forth uh association fees and uh and you

forth uh association fees and uh and you you have your syncing fund calcul

you have your syncing fund calcul regulations amortized out for 20 years

regulations amortized out for 20 years and you you work it out. So

and you you work it out. So >> and and I think my previous concerns are

>> and and I think my previous concerns are really the enforceability of such a

really the enforceability of such a mechanism, Chris, in the future. Is the

mechanism, Chris, in the future. Is the city going to get in there and enforce a

city going to get in there and enforce a CCNR that was adopted 20 years ago? It's

CCNR that was adopted 20 years ago? It's it's a difficult task for the city to

it's a difficult task for the city to come in afterwards many years later and

come in afterwards many years later and then to say, "Oh yeah, we we approved

then to say, "Oh yeah, we we approved this as a condition 25 years ago. How

this as a condition 25 years ago. How would we enforce that?" So it's probably

would we enforce that?" So it's probably an

an >> enforcement. My concern isn't that that

>> enforcement. My concern isn't that that this project or any project is isn't

this project or any project is isn't meeting code. I think it My

meeting code. I think it My initial look at it is that it does, but

initial look at it is that it does, but the bigger concern is especially when

the bigger concern is especially when we're talking about affordable housing.

we're talking about affordable housing. So, we have people that stretch to get

So, we have people that stretch to get into the house. And not saying it's

into the house. And not saying it's happened here, but in other

happened here, but in other subdivisions,

subdivisions, the

the HOA dues are kept artificially low

HOA dues are kept artificially low >> so that people can afford to get in. And

>> so that people can afford to get in. And then the project's done. Developer's

then the project's done. Developer's gone. Guess what? You're now responsible

gone. Guess what? You're now responsible for this landscaping, all this common

for this landscaping, all this common fencing, roads, sidewalks, all kinds of

fencing, roads, sidewalks, all kinds of stuff that's private. And now is the

stuff that's private. And now is the association responsibility. And those

association responsibility. And those dues quadruple. And all of a sudden,

dues quadruple. And all of a sudden, you've got all these individual

you've got all these individual homeowners screaming and class action

homeowners screaming and class action lawsuits and all this stuff that

lawsuits and all this stuff that happens. Not saying it's the city's

happens. Not saying it's the city's responsibility. I'm just thinking we

responsibility. I'm just thinking we should be aware of it and plan for I I

should be aware of it and plan for I I not saying this project is even in that

not saying this project is even in that situation. Just

situation. Just >> I I live in a development and it's R1

>> I I live in a development and it's R1 zoned. Um we have a very small open

zoned. Um we have a very small open space. My HOA fees have doubled

space. My HOA fees have doubled >> exactly

>> exactly >> and my question to my association is

>> and my question to my association is often what am I paying for? You know,

often what am I paying for? You know, it's city maintained property

it's city maintained property essentially in various areas. Uh that's

essentially in various areas. Uh that's my question, right? Maintenance of costs

my question, right? Maintenance of costs have gone up. you know, every all the

have gone up. you know, every all the costs have gone up because the cost of

costs have gone up because the cost of living has gone up here significantly.

living has gone up here significantly. So, I think uh as Mr. Kimmel mentioned,

So, I think uh as Mr. Kimmel mentioned, providing that sinking fund, which is

providing that sinking fund, which is not regularly a part of developments

not regularly a part of developments here, but more so a part of developments

here, but more so a part of developments in other jurisdictions that we work in,

in other jurisdictions that we work in, I think would help us understand and

I think would help us understand and maybe as part of the CCNRs and a

maybe as part of the CCNRs and a reiteration at the time of purchase

reiteration at the time of purchase because these are purchased homes,

because these are purchased homes, right? Um, and I think uh understanding

right? Um, and I think uh understanding that at the time of purchase, sitting at

that at the time of purchase, sitting at the title company trying to sign 200

the title company trying to sign 200 sheets to to buy a home is is daunting,

sheets to to buy a home is is daunting, but when you're hit with that two or

but when you're hit with that two or three times and you understand that, I

three times and you understand that, I think that could be a part of the

think that could be a part of the conditions of the purchase that you

conditions of the purchase that you understand this.

understand this. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Well, it may be new to some things in

>> Well, it may be new to some things in postfalls. It's not a new concept. I

postfalls. It's not a new concept. I mean, I've done it many jurisdictions

mean, I've done it many jurisdictions and

and >> the the goal is to set it up for

>> the the goal is to set it up for success. Correct. Um, now most

success. Correct. Um, now most homeowners associates, we all know that

homeowners associates, we all know that most home owners associations are not

most home owners associations are not usually run by people who are

usually run by people who are development or savvy to those kinds of

development or savvy to those kinds of things. So, if you set them up for

things. So, if you set them up for success, at least gives them a fighting

success, at least gives them a fighting shot,

shot, >> correct,

>> correct, >> of staying solvent because I mean the

>> of staying solvent because I mean the reality is once the fees get too high,

reality is once the fees get too high, people stop paying them and then it just

people stop paying them and then it just gets snowballs and gets worse. Correct.

gets snowballs and gets worse. Correct. Um, so thank you for um

Um, so thank you for um being accepting of that.

being accepting of that. >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Any other questions for the applicant?

>> Any other questions for the applicant? >> Right. Thank you.

>> Right. Thank you. >> Thank you.

>> Thank you. >> Public testimony.

All right. Not wishing to speak in opposition. Tara Wolf.

opposition. Tara Wolf. Uh we live on the corner of Sering and

Uh we live on the corner of Sering and Horse Haven. Uh we have been aware that

Horse Haven. Uh we have been aware that the field surrounding our home was going

the field surrounding our home was going to be developed for years. However, we

to be developed for years. However, we are concerned with the number of homes

are concerned with the number of homes now proposed. Suring is 25 miles per

now proposed. Suring is 25 miles per hour, horse safe haven, and is also 25

hour, horse safe haven, and is also 25 mile.

mile. very fairly rural area compared to

very fairly rural area compared to others. 100 plus homes would increase

others. 100 plus homes would increase traffic in this area beyond what our

traffic in this area beyond what our infrastructure supports. We would

infrastructure supports. We would support less houses, reasonable

support less houses, reasonable additions,

additions, no cottage lots or tiny homes. Leave as

no cottage lots or tiny homes. Leave as R1, not residential mix

R1, not residential mix R2 and limit the number of homes.

wishing to speak in opposition. Kersh Lacier Lacier.

Thank you. So, um, hi, my name is Christy Lacader.

So, um, hi, my name is Christy Lacader. I live at 1842 East Prairie View Drive,

I live at 1842 East Prairie View Drive, which is an unannexed uh property or

which is an unannexed uh property or development just to the east of the

development just to the east of the proposed um u phase 2 plan that um Chris

proposed um u phase 2 plan that um Chris was talking about. Uh it, you know, it's

was talking about. Uh it, you know, it's first and foremost my primary goal to

first and foremost my primary goal to maintain or enhance and improve our

maintain or enhance and improve our properties. Um, and I'm concerned about

properties. Um, and I'm concerned about the uh

the uh medium density cottage homes of 105

medium density cottage homes of 105 homes means to me 200 plus cars a day

homes means to me 200 plus cars a day driving down Prairie View, 100 kids

driving down Prairie View, 100 kids playing on their bicycles without

playing on their bicycles without uh finished sidewalks

uh finished sidewalks towards the direction of the elementary

towards the direction of the elementary school that we were talking about in the

school that we were talking about in the previous uh hearing. So, I think it's

previous uh hearing. So, I think it's Prairie View Elementary is just right

Prairie View Elementary is just right around the corner. So, the developer

around the corner. So, the developer plans to improve the property along

plans to improve the property along Horse Haven, but it stops at the end of

Horse Haven, but it stops at the end of the development, and that is the

the development, and that is the opposite direction of where the

opposite direction of where the elementary school is. Uh, I walk my dogs

elementary school is. Uh, I walk my dogs down that road frequently, and the

down that road frequently, and the traffic that goes by doesn't adhere to

traffic that goes by doesn't adhere to the 20 mph zone or 25 mph zone. There's

the 20 mph zone or 25 mph zone. There's no space for us to walk. So the kids

no space for us to walk. So the kids safety is um you know important and I

safety is um you know important and I wonder what the city plans on doing to

wonder what the city plans on doing to mitigate the risk for kids. Um you know

mitigate the risk for kids. Um you know I am pleased to hear that there is a

I am pleased to hear that there is a plan in place for green space. Currently

plan in place for green space. Currently there are no parks around. So, you know,

there are no parks around. So, you know, in an effort to decrease the hooliganism

in an effort to decrease the hooliganism that comes with children naturally, um I

that comes with children naturally, um I am pleased that the developer uh is

am pleased that the developer uh is considering that, but um I would like to

considering that, but um I would like to consider maybe more green space or park

consider maybe more green space or park uh and maybe less homes. Uh another huge

uh and maybe less homes. Uh another huge concern of mine is the infrastructure.

concern of mine is the infrastructure. We have aerial uh power and cable that

We have aerial uh power and cable that is currently serving all of our homes.

is currently serving all of our homes. So with this development, what will be

So with this development, what will be the plan for that infrastructure? Am I

the plan for that infrastructure? Am I as a homeowner going to be required to

as a homeowner going to be required to now change our power outlet uh in order

now change our power outlet uh in order to accommodate their development? That's

to accommodate their development? That's uh pretty important for me. Um, the

uh pretty important for me. Um, the other thing I'd really like to ensure is

other thing I'd really like to ensure is what the plan in place will be for

what the plan in place will be for drainage into our yards. We back up to

drainage into our yards. We back up to the east side of their development and I

the east side of their development and I understand that's phase two in its

understand that's phase two in its future, but uh, you know, I drive by

future, but uh, you know, I drive by developments all the time and I see BMS

developments all the time and I see BMS going down into fencing and we are all

going down into fencing and we are all on individual septics. We don't have

on individual septics. We don't have access to sewer because we are unaccess

access to sewer because we are unaccess uh unanexed and it's too much money for

uh unanexed and it's too much money for our development to access those sewers.

our development to access those sewers. So we are stuck on septics and so if

So we are stuck on septics and so if their drainage comes and fills our

their drainage comes and fills our backyards with ponds that's problematic.

backyards with ponds that's problematic. And so if this doesn't happen for 10

And so if this doesn't happen for 10 years, what is our plan or our course of

years, what is our plan or our course of action to be able to get the support we

action to be able to get the support we need to fix the drainage problem that

need to fix the drainage problem that isn't working? Um,

I really want to just reiterate those questions.

want to just reiterate those questions. I'd also like to know the price point of

I'd also like to know the price point of the homes. Our goal is to improve our

the homes. Our goal is to improve our property and bringing these cottage

property and bringing these cottage homes in that are low income that are

homes in that are low income that are affordable with unobtainable HOA fees

affordable with unobtainable HOA fees will just and

will just and quality of the product is that going to

quality of the product is that going to promote uh an improvement in our area.

promote uh an improvement in our area. So I am over I appreciate you listening

So I am over I appreciate you listening to me uh and I think appreciate your

to me uh and I think appreciate your consideration of maybe a modification of

consideration of maybe a modification of the number of homes and a plan for the

the number of homes and a plan for the sidewalks etc.

sidewalks etc. >> Thank you.

>> Thank you. >> Thank you.

>> Wishing to speak in opposition Terry Switzer.

All right. In that case, I will read uh in opposition. There's no need for

uh in opposition. There's no need for this. There are four similar.

I think this was for the last one because this says fuel stations.

>> I didn't grab the other one. >> I recognize the name from the last one.

>> I recognize the name from the last one. >> Yeah.

Yeah, this talks about the pipeline and schools

schools over there.

>> Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. MacArthur, for explaining and for the u

MacArthur, for explaining and for the u u

u all the pictures showing. My wife and I

all the pictures showing. My wife and I are actually the owners of Bugs's Old

are actually the owners of Bugs's Old House. We bought that from John and Deb

House. We bought that from John and Deb seven years ago back in 2017. John has

seven years ago back in 2017. John has been extremely forthcoming and honest

been extremely forthcoming and honest with the development and informed us at

with the development and informed us at each process of the way even though

each process of the way even though there's been some months here and there.

there's been some months here and there. The first conceptual plan that we saw

The first conceptual plan that we saw two years ago was significantly less

two years ago was significantly less homes, but there were cottage lots in

homes, but there were cottage lots in there. Now I've seen it on film and like

there. Now I've seen it on film and like John said, this isn't about making

John said, this isn't about making money. It's about a legacy. There's

money. It's about a legacy. There's going to be walkways. There's going to

going to be walkways. There's going to be areas.

be areas. Couple of concerns I got is like when

Couple of concerns I got is like when you guys were talking about the HOA fees

you guys were talking about the HOA fees in the roads, we're not going to be a

in the roads, we're not going to be a part of this HOA. And years ago, me and

part of this HOA. And years ago, me and John and my wife had to come down here

John and my wife had to come down here because we built a shop on the property

because we built a shop on the property where the swimming pool used to be, but

where the swimming pool used to be, but we were told by the city that we

we were told by the city that we couldn't build this big of a shop

couldn't build this big of a shop because we went over the 84% threshold

because we went over the 84% threshold unless you gave the frontage right

unless you gave the frontage right improvements. Well, we're not developing

improvements. Well, we're not developing the field. Mr. Given is. So, we came

the field. Mr. Given is. So, we came down, sat down with the city, and we had

down, sat down with the city, and we had to we were forced to basically build a

to we were forced to basically build a smaller shop,

smaller shop, and we were also told that we were both

and we were also told that we were both going to lose our driveways. Now, in the

going to lose our driveways. Now, in the plan, I see that his driveway is going

plan, I see that his driveway is going to be turned into an alley, but we are

to be turned into an alley, but we are being forced to possibly lose our

being forced to possibly lose our driveway. We're not paying HOA fees, but

driveway. We're not paying HOA fees, but we're being forced to use private roads.

we're being forced to use private roads. Our address used to be Seringa. What's

Our address used to be Seringa. What's it going to be now? Who pays for the

it going to be now? Who pays for the mailbox? Who does this?

mailbox? Who does this? Um we're on we we are annexed. We're

Um we're on we we are annexed. We're already in the city. Um John actually

already in the city. Um John actually came over a few months ago and talked to

came over a few months ago and talked to us about you know the city might even

us about you know the city might even want be easier if we just reszone

want be easier if we just reszone everything and bring our parcel into it.

everything and bring our parcel into it. Would I prefer R1 over R2? Yes. If we

Would I prefer R1 over R2? Yes. If we stay with what the conceptual plan is of

stay with what the conceptual plan is of affordable living house cottage lots

affordable living house cottage lots only twotory.

only twotory. You got to play nice and you got to work

You got to play nice and you got to work together. I grew up in southern Idaho in

together. I grew up in southern Idaho in the fastest growing county. You're the

the fastest growing county. You're the fastest growing city and I live in the

fastest growing city and I live in the second fastest growing set city in the

second fastest growing set city in the second fastest growing county. Gross's

second fastest growing county. Gross's coming. So, we all kind of got to work

coming. So, we all kind of got to work together. But

together. But if it's going to be that many lots,

if it's going to be that many lots, minimum of two people per household,

minimum of two people per household, that's 200 cars. Then you had a couple

that's 200 cars. Then you had a couple of high school kids in there. One of the

of high school kids in there. One of the other concerns I had and the first thing

other concerns I had and the first thing that I read in here really stuck out was

that I read in here really stuck out was smallcale neighborhood commercial office

smallcale neighborhood commercial office uses may be suitable within res

uses may be suitable within res residential mix zones. So does that mean

residential mix zones. So does that mean we're going to put a Starbucks in that

we're going to put a Starbucks in that neighborhood as well? Does that mean

neighborhood as well? Does that mean it's going to be convenience store with

it's going to be convenience store with a sandwich shop without the gas pumps

a sandwich shop without the gas pumps bringing more people onto private roads

bringing more people onto private roads that the HOA has to pay for?

that the HOA has to pay for? So, there's a lot of questions as far as

So, there's a lot of questions as far as where we fit into this development.

where we fit into this development. Maybe we can talk with Mr. MacArthur

Maybe we can talk with Mr. MacArthur later this evening or something, but

later this evening or something, but we're kind of in our own little island

we're kind of in our own little island on a corner. I will say this, it is

on a corner. I will say this, it is going to be great to have sidewalks. Um,

going to be great to have sidewalks. Um, we have kids that ride through and I

we have kids that ride through and I tell them, you can ride through our yard

tell them, you can ride through our yard all you want because the intersections

all you want because the intersections are getting busier, the high school's

are getting busier, the high school's getting more kids. They're using um

getting more kids. They're using um Horse Haven, you know, to get down to

Horse Haven, you know, to get down to Greens Fairy real quick. They are only

Greens Fairy real quick. They are only 25 mph roads. The nice thing is we have

25 mph roads. The nice thing is we have police officers that live locally and

police officers that live locally and they keep an eye on the place, but it's

they keep an eye on the place, but it's coming and you're just going to add more

coming and you're just going to add more to the plate when you put a development

to the plate when you put a development like this in here. So, those are my

like this in here. So, those are my concerns as it is. You're not going to

concerns as it is. You're not going to make everybody happy.

make everybody happy. Um, but I appreciate your guys' late

Um, but I appreciate your guys' late night and your time and listening to

night and your time and listening to everybody. So, thank you.

everybody. So, thank you. >> Thank you.

wishing to speak. Neutral Angie Hman.

Okay. So, I just want I just have actually one question as far as like

actually one question as far as like Okay. So if I understand this correctly,

Okay. So if I understand this correctly, we're not building like any apartments,

we're not building like any apartments, duplexes or multiplexes there. Correct.

duplexes or multiplexes there. Correct. In that area.

In that area. >> That's what I understand.

>> That's what I understand. >> Okay. And then so

>> Okay. And then so and I have very much a lot of same

and I have very much a lot of same concerns as you do with our property

concerns as you do with our property backs up right there. And so about the

backs up right there. And so about the drainage. Yep. I wholeheartedly have a

drainage. Yep. I wholeheartedly have a big huge concern about that. if if

big huge concern about that. if if there's something implemented in there

there's something implemented in there or making sure that they have that uh

or making sure that they have that uh because I know that that was an issue on

because I know that that was an issue on the Prairie and uh Prairie and Spokane

the Prairie and uh Prairie and Spokane Street, that whole area, because that's

Street, that whole area, because that's where my son had owned his was that

where my son had owned his was that their drainage was not done correctly.

their drainage was not done correctly. And uh so I would like to see less homes

And uh so I would like to see less homes there as well. And uh

there as well. And uh and then as far as the uh if they have

and then as far as the uh if they have like any type of a something implemented

like any type of a something implemented for like fence for our fence line like

for like fence for our fence line like right now it's just the electric fence

right now it's just the electric fence just a fence if they're planning on

just a fence if they're planning on putting up like a property thing. And

putting up like a property thing. And then the other part that I the other

then the other part that I the other question that I have is I know on

question that I have is I know on Poland or not Poland Greens Ferry and

Poland or not Poland Greens Ferry and 16th I think it is the property that got

16th I think it is the property that got sold over there the place that was

sold over there the place that was that's still existing right there that

that's still existing right there that had all that property they put like a

had all that property they put like a fence right there but they also put a

fence right there but they also put a gate that goes right into their yard

gate that goes right into their yard that they can't do anything about. And I

that they can't do anything about. And I just want to make sure that there's not

just want to make sure that there's not going to be something done like that.

going to be something done like that. The Cleaves own that one. They used to

The Cleaves own that one. They used to anyways and then they sold it and

anyways and then they sold it and whoever bought it like when they sold

whoever bought it like when they sold off the rest of it, there's like some

off the rest of it, there's like some type of a gate that's right there and it

type of a gate that's right there and it ends up going in right in their lawn.

ends up going in right in their lawn. So, but so that's what I want to know.

So, but so that's what I want to know. It's just like is there what's the fence

It's just like is there what's the fence line going to be like as far as that

line going to be like as far as that goes? And because I couldn't tell on the

goes? And because I couldn't tell on the picture where what type of housing they

picture where what type of housing they were planning on putting behind ours and

were planning on putting behind ours and I think ours is in second phase.

I think ours is in second phase. So, uh,

So, uh, what that was, but yes, I very much want

what that was, but yes, I very much want to echo the concerns here because mine

to echo the concerns here because mine is on the same exact thing as hers where

is on the same exact thing as hers where it's just back toback with that

it's just back toback with that property.

property. >> So, did any of that make sense at all?

>> So, did any of that make sense at all? >> Yeah. And I'm sure Mr. MacArthur can

>> Yeah. And I'm sure Mr. MacArthur can address a lot. So, and I do appreciate

address a lot. So, and I do appreciate the fact that the developer um wants to

the fact that the developer um wants to keep them single single family homes or

keep them single single family homes or as far as like just home ownerships and

as far as like just home ownerships and not apartments and not duplexes, etc.

not apartments and not duplexes, etc. So,

>> Good evening again. Scott MacArthur. Uh just wanted to address a couple of

just wanted to address a couple of items. Christine okay uh Christine

items. Christine okay uh Christine Lacader she mentioned that um traffic

Lacader she mentioned that um traffic right so part of the issues that we're

right so part of the issues that we're having in this area right now are that

having in this area right now are that the fact that we don't have the rights

the fact that we don't have the rights of way uh to improve the roads to city

of way uh to improve the roads to city standards. Uh this project will improve

standards. Uh this project will improve the development uh to city standards.

the development uh to city standards. But one of the issues we have is that

But one of the issues we have is that the property to the east, the section

the property to the east, the section that uh is primarily concerned, there's

that uh is primarily concerned, there's a section on and I don't know if I made

a section on and I don't know if I made my picture large enough. Um

my picture large enough. Um there's a large section that you cannot

there's a large section that you cannot see here. Sorry, that is not in the

see here. Sorry, that is not in the city. uh and the rights of way are not

city. uh and the rights of way are not wide enough to continue the improvements

wide enough to continue the improvements uh through that section of Horse Haven

uh through that section of Horse Haven to connect to Greens Ferry. Um so

to connect to Greens Ferry. Um so there's some issues over there. The

there's some issues over there. The improvements are made up to the west

improvements are made up to the west side or excuse me the east side of the

side or excuse me the east side of the R1 property that's adjacent to

R1 property that's adjacent to Greensberry. uh but there will be this

Greensberry. uh but there will be this gap until the rights of way are are

gap until the rights of way are are obtained or the property to the north is

obtained or the property to the north is developed and the rights of way are uh

developed and the rights of way are uh obtained in the the center line of the

obtained in the the center line of the alignment basically for horse and will

alignment basically for horse and will have to change to provide that street

have to change to provide that street section that's needed to provide that

section that's needed to provide that connectivity. So um right now I again I

connectivity. So um right now I again I live in the area um and I too utilize

live in the area um and I too utilize Horse Haven for access uh pedestrian

Horse Haven for access uh pedestrian access, walk my kids, walk my dogs and

access, walk my kids, walk my dogs and uh we do walk on the streets and until

uh we do walk on the streets and until we get to the improved sections. So part

we get to the improved sections. So part of that safety improvement will be our

of that safety improvement will be our improvements as much as we can do uh

improvements as much as we can do uh through our portions of the property

through our portions of the property which is pretty significant being the I

which is pretty significant being the I believe it's around 2,000 lineal feet of

believe it's around 2,000 lineal feet of frontage improvements that need to take

frontage improvements that need to take place um

place um annexation and I just ran some quick

annexation and I just ran some quick numbers uh Mr. home. Uh, regarding uh,

numbers uh Mr. home. Uh, regarding uh, you know, R1 develop, it'd be roughly

you know, R1 develop, it'd be roughly about 100 lots that you could put into

about 100 lots that you could put into this property. Uh, single family

this property. Uh, single family residential, 6,500T lots, uh, which

residential, 6,500T lots, uh, which would be pretty significant. Uh, we're

would be pretty significant. Uh, we're asking for five more, but we're giving

asking for five more, but we're giving you 70,000 ft of open space, maintained

you 70,000 ft of open space, maintained open space.

open space. uh price points. Uh right now we have

uh price points. Uh right now we have several cottage developments in the city

several cottage developments in the city and the price points are consistent with

and the price points are consistent with single family residential homes which

single family residential homes which what we're finding with those we have a

what we're finding with those we have a laundry, you know, a not a laundry list,

laundry, you know, a not a laundry list, we have a long list of people that want

we have a long list of people that want to buy cottage homes because they don't

to buy cottage homes because they don't want to maintain those large lots. Uh we

want to maintain those large lots. Uh we know I I wish I lived on a larger lot.

know I I wish I lived on a larger lot. I'd maintain it, but there are people

I'd maintain it, but there are people that want to live on those smaller lots

that want to live on those smaller lots and have that sense of community and be

and have that sense of community and be adjacent to the open space. And that's

adjacent to the open space. And that's those are the people that we're looking

those are the people that we're looking for here in this development. can't say

for here in this development. can't say that's who will buy them, but uh I do as

that's who will buy them, but uh I do as as with all of my neighbors in my R1

as with all of my neighbors in my R1 zone property, encourage them to

zone property, encourage them to maintain their properties

maintain their properties uh keep price points up. Um Mr. Wolf, I

uh keep price points up. Um Mr. Wolf, I I've never thanked him. He caught my

I've never thanked him. He caught my dogs uh when we first moved into the

dogs uh when we first moved into the neighborhood years ago. Thank you. My

neighborhood years ago. Thank you. My kids were really mad at me for opening

kids were really mad at me for opening the garage door. So, uh Mr. Wolf, your

the garage door. So, uh Mr. Wolf, your driveway will continue to access Singa

driveway will continue to access Singa and Mr. Paulus, I believe we discussed

and Mr. Paulus, I believe we discussed that Mr. Given uh who currently lives on

that Mr. Given uh who currently lives on the R1's own property, uh he and Mr.

the R1's own property, uh he and Mr. Wolf will continue to have access

Wolf will continue to have access directly to Seringa. You will not have

directly to Seringa. You will not have access to Horse Haven, but you'll have

access to Horse Haven, but you'll have access to Seringa. Um and that's uh to

access to Seringa. Um and that's uh to keep like you mentioned um not a part of

keep like you mentioned um not a part of the association, not impacting the

the association, not impacting the private road section. And u and we also

private road section. And u and we also did provide a buffer in that area as

did provide a buffer in that area as well. It's a it's a small sliver, a

well. It's a it's a small sliver, a small maintained sliver. Uh, and I know

small maintained sliver. Uh, and I know if we can get it up there, but there is

if we can get it up there, but there is a buffer between the homes. So, it's a

a buffer between the homes. So, it's a larger setback to the cottage homes uh

larger setback to the cottage homes uh in that area as compared to um those

in that area as compared to um those that are, you know, we're not building

that are, you know, we're not building right up to the property line. The the

right up to the property line. The the homes that'll be built up to your

homes that'll be built up to your southern boundary are R1 size lots,

southern boundary are R1 size lots, larger lots, and I think you can see,

larger lots, and I think you can see, you know, 7,7300

you know, 7,7300 foot lots there. those road those lots

foot lots there. those road those lots will have access to the private road but

will have access to the private road but you will contain continue to have your

you will contain continue to have your access through your existing driveway.

access through your existing driveway. Uh as stated earlier we have no

Uh as stated earlier we have no intention for any commercial use on this

intention for any commercial use on this property and if so uh if that use

property and if so uh if that use changes that we'll have to come back to

changes that we'll have to come back to the city and ask for uh a change with

the city and ask for uh a change with this request.

this request. Uh regarding drainage that's one thing I

Uh regarding drainage that's one thing I did not mention. So, previously uh

did not mention. So, previously uh there's a

there's a try to find it here a grading plan. Um

try to find it here a grading plan. Um this property is flat. We live on the

this property is flat. We live on the prairie. Uh it's very flat. And so with

prairie. Uh it's very flat. And so with all developments in the city, part of

all developments in the city, part of our process is to illustrate that

our process is to illustrate that drainage is maintained on the property.

drainage is maintained on the property. Whether that's public road improvements,

Whether that's public road improvements, private improvements, the drainage must

private improvements, the drainage must be maintained on our property on our

be maintained on our property on our project. And we have to illustrate that

project. And we have to illustrate that at the time of development. So, when the

at the time of development. So, when the subdivision plans are formally

subdivision plans are formally submitted, uh, stamped, as an engineer,

submitted, uh, stamped, as an engineer, we're stamping and saying, "Yes, we're

we're stamping and saying, "Yes, we're maintaining our drainage on our

maintaining our drainage on our property." Um, with this project and

property." Um, with this project and with all projects in the city, uh,

with all projects in the city, uh, there's no fencing requirements. We

there's no fencing requirements. We could put up no fence, there could be a

could put up no fence, there could be a block wall, there could be a fence, but

block wall, there could be a fence, but that fence isn't a requirement of the

that fence isn't a requirement of the subdivision or the development

subdivision or the development um,

um, uh, density. I know a lot of people hit

uh, density. I know a lot of people hit on that number of homes. Again, 100

on that number of homes. Again, 100 homes in the R1 zone or we're asking for

homes in the R1 zone or we're asking for 105

105 uh eight units per acre uh in this

uh eight units per acre uh in this development. I I think it's a

development. I I think it's a fairly great tradeoff and so we're

fairly great tradeoff and so we're maintaining that eight units per acre in

maintaining that eight units per acre in this development. Uh and I will stand

this development. Uh and I will stand for any additional questions,

for any additional questions, >> questions,

>> questions, >> just looking at at uh that plan right

>> just looking at at uh that plan right there. Am I reading this right? That It

there. Am I reading this right? That It almost looks like the drainage is going

almost looks like the drainage is going to the west. Just the natural drainage

to the west. Just the natural drainage would be headed west.

would be headed west. >> That's correct. And and just this is a

>> That's correct. And and just this is a conceptual grading plan illustrating how

conceptual grading plan illustrating how we see the the subdivision potentially

we see the the subdivision potentially being laid out. But at all times uh that

being laid out. But at all times uh that is the intent with development. There

is the intent with development. There there's certain circumstances where you

there's certain circumstances where you do have to grade backyards to

do have to grade backyards to accommodate that, but it's uh in this

accommodate that, but it's uh in this particular you you are very correct. So

particular you you are very correct. So thank you. Well, that that is a a good

thank you. Well, that that is a a good issue that Christy and Angie brought up

issue that Christy and Angie brought up because over there on Prada

because over there on Prada uh I know some people over there that

uh I know some people over there that they can't get rid of their water.

they can't get rid of their water. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> So, I don't know what we can say about

>> So, I don't know what we can say about it. That's engineer stuff. Um but

it. That's engineer stuff. Um but >> you didn't point at me. You pointed

>> you didn't point at me. You pointed somewhere else. I'm just

somewhere else. I'm just >> Are you an engineer?

>> Are you an engineer? >> I just want to make sure it was Rob.

>> I just want to make sure it was Rob. >> He tells me he is.

>> He tells me he is. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. But anyway, that's that is a big issue

But anyway, that's that is a big issue that what they brought up because you

that what they brought up because you know standing water is no good. So,

know standing water is no good. So, >> correct. Right. And we do live on a

>> correct. Right. And we do live on a uh soils that are have high infiltration

uh soils that are have high infiltration rates in our area and so we even slow

rates in our area and so we even slow them down with our storm water soils by

them down with our storm water soils by the introduction of organic top soil.

the introduction of organic top soil. The problem is when that top soil is

The problem is when that top soil is compacted or the materials are over

compacted or the materials are over compacted uh and need to be scarified.

compacted uh and need to be scarified. And so that's a lot of times what it is

And so that's a lot of times what it is is just getting to a depth of scarifying

is just getting to a depth of scarifying it to a depth that allows that

it to a depth that allows that infiltration.

infiltration. >> Yes sir.

>> Yes sir. >> Um so I did some math and the number of

>> Um so I did some math and the number of lots you have divided by the acreage is

lots you have divided by the acreage is 5.83 units per acre.

5.83 units per acre. >> I yeah I believe I was looking back

>> I yeah I believe I was looking back through my notes for some reason the

through my notes for some reason the math

math >> math

>> math >> we'll be under eight units per acre.

>> we'll be under eight units per acre. >> And so I yeah I busted out the

>> And so I yeah I busted out the calculator for a second. Um so 6.0 0 is

calculator for a second. Um so 6.0 0 is fine on the

fine on the >> I'd like to keep it at under eight, but

>> I'd like to keep it at under eight, but I don't I don't foresee us getting

I don't I don't foresee us getting >> I I I check that after as well. I was

>> I I I check that after as well. I was trying to maintain it at eight just in

trying to maintain it at eight just in the event that Mr. Given home does turn

the event that Mr. Given home does turn into uh another unit there as well. Uh I

into uh another unit there as well. Uh I don't again this is conceptual

don't again this is conceptual subdivision plan. We're looking at a a

subdivision plan. We're looking at a a max density. I don't want to try to

max density. I don't want to try to limit that density. I want to be

limit that density. I want to be consistent with the comp plan.

consistent with the comp plan. >> That makes sense.

>> That makes sense. >> Thank you. But thank you. Yes. I after I

>> Thank you. But thank you. Yes. I after I sat down, I looked at that as well.

sat down, I looked at that as well. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. >> Mr. Wilhelm. He's an engineer.

>> Mr. Wilhelm. He's an engineer. >> Who is? Just kid.

>> All right. I understand most of what he says.

says. >> Yes, you do.

>> Yes, you do. >> All right. Thank you.

>> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you so much.

>> Thank you so much. >> Close out the hearing.

>> All right, commissioners. Because we have a couple different ways of

have a couple different ways of approaching it. We have a a subdivision

approaching it. We have a a subdivision and we have the annexation

and we have the annexation uh zoning request and a zone change.

uh zoning request and a zone change. I the subdivision approval would be

I the subdivision approval would be conditioned on the zone changes for the

conditioned on the zone changes for the two two properties zone change and the

two two properties zone change and the zoning recommendation of council. So uh

zoning recommendation of council. So uh why don't we go through the annexation

why don't we go through the annexation and zone change criteria first. Take

and zone change criteria first. Take both lots at once since they are

both lots at once since they are presented in the same way. There is no

presented in the same way. There is no difference in the in the manner. you're

difference in the in the manner. you're not going to it's unlikely you're going

not going to it's unlikely you're going to zone one not the same as the other.

to zone one not the same as the other. So that would be my recommendation.

So that would be my recommendation. Um

Um before you tonight is a requested zone

before you tonight is a requested zone of residential mixed uh for annexation

of residential mixed uh for annexation 25-2 and zone change 25-1.

25-2 and zone change 25-1. Uh and we'll go through the criteria. Uh

Uh and we'll go through the criteria. Uh number one is the proposed zoning

number one is the proposed zoning district consistent with the future land

district consistent with the future land use map and focus area contained in the

use map and focus area contained in the currently adopted postfalls

currently adopted postfalls comprehensive plan

but I'll speak at once. Um yeah so let's see here

see here I forget the u actual comp plan

I forget the u actual comp plan designation for this. Is it transitional

designation for this. Is it transitional or is it I think it's a low density

or is it I think it's a low density residential.

residential. >> Okay. So, low density residential

>> Okay. So, low density residential and RM residential mix zone is an

and RM residential mix zone is an implementing zone uh for that

implementing zone uh for that designation.

designation. Uh understanding that there is a density

Uh understanding that there is a density cap in the comprehensive plan for low

cap in the comprehensive plan for low density residential of eight dwelling

density residential of eight dwelling units per acre.

units per acre. So if it if it is zoned RM is there a

So if it if it is zoned RM is there a cap

cap >> we can so RM comes with a development

>> we can so RM comes with a development agreement a zoning development agreement

agreement a zoning development agreement attached to it where that's those are

attached to it where that's those are the things that we add into or can add

the things that we add into or can add into

into >> okay

>> okay >> uh those development agreements

>> uh those development agreements >> in our recommendation recommend or that

>> in our recommendation recommend or that that recommendation which would be

that recommendation which would be things like eight dwelling units per

things like eight dwelling units per acre cap, no multifamily, no commercial

acre cap, no multifamily, no commercial or and single family detached housing or

or and single family detached housing or something like that.

something like that. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> And limited to single family detached.

>> And limited to single family detached. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> We have a focus area here of central uh

>> We have a focus area here of central uh the central focus area. I don't know if

the central focus area. I don't know if there was any discussion or anyone want

there was any discussion or anyone want to address any of the points on that one

to address any of the points on that one >> that that talk that speaks to infill

>> that that talk that speaks to infill develop. It's a central or the central

develop. It's a central or the central island, right? central island and

island, right? central island and >> which speaks to infill development being

>> which speaks to infill development being a a priority uh for the city um and

a a priority uh for the city um and infill annexations. And to be honest,

infill annexations. And to be honest, the this is really a a good example of

the this is really a a good example of um

um how those old 1970s60s7s

how those old 1970s60s7s subdivisions where they're you know the

subdivisions where they're you know the halfacre lots um on the adjoining

halfacre lots um on the adjoining property. This is a good is an example

property. This is a good is an example of why those may never come into the

of why those may never come into the city. Um because

city. Um because they just they won't probably annex. But

they just they won't probably annex. But when these when these properties do come

when these when these properties do come up for sale and when they do come to

up for sale and when they do come to develop,

develop, um it's good to get them into the city

um it's good to get them into the city so that stuff like that doesn't happen

so that stuff like that doesn't happen and they never redevelop. Um if they

and they never redevelop. Um if they develop in the county is something it's

develop in the county is something it's really hard to get them into the city

really hard to get them into the city later. Mhm.

later. Mhm. >> So, and that goes to expanding

>> So, and that goes to expanding infrastructure, right? Because that

infrastructure, right? Because that adjoining subdivision, there's no right

adjoining subdivision, there's no right of way and there's no funding mechanism

of way and there's no funding mechanism to build the sidewalks across that. And

to build the sidewalks across that. And so, even though it's essentially going

so, even though it's essentially going to be eventually it's it's surrounded by

to be eventually it's it's surrounded by urban area, um but the funding

urban area, um but the funding mechanisms for having pedestrian

mechanisms for having pedestrian connectivity across there are few and

connectivity across there are few and far in between.

far in between. Thank you. Uh number two, and then this

Thank you. Uh number two, and then this this ties into the your comments tie

this ties into the your comments tie into the goals and policies consistency

into the goals and policies consistency with the uh postfall's comprehensive

with the uh postfall's comprehensive plan. Uh so speaking a little bit more

plan. Uh so speaking a little bit more on that one, we talked about a little

on that one, we talked about a little bit of transportation and the

bit of transportation and the infrastructure improvements are always a

infrastructure improvements are always a big one. Um, goal six, transportation

big one. Um, goal six, transportation improvements, especially on that corner,

improvements, especially on that corner, even though it's offsite. It's that's a

even though it's offsite. It's that's a really big one, getting that

really big one, getting that intersection of Horse Haven and Seringa

intersection of Horse Haven and Seringa um, built out. Uh, pedestrian

um, built out. Uh, pedestrian connectivity policies 67 speaks to that.

connectivity policies 67 speaks to that. I

I >> think it policies eight and nine talk

>> think it policies eight and nine talk about the infill and theation

about the infill and theation of the uh, the county pockets in there,

of the uh, the county pockets in there, but then that kind of just ties in to

but then that kind of just ties in to the frontage improvements, the

the frontage improvements, the connectability of the infrastructure.

connectability of the infrastructure. provide already talked about. Yeah.

provide already talked about. Yeah. >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Okay.

>> Okay. Uh uh and number three on the zoning

Uh uh and number three on the zoning recommendation and zone change criteria.

recommendation and zone change criteria. Does the proposed district being RM

Does the proposed district being RM create a demonstrable adverse impact

create a demonstrable adverse impact upon the delivery of services by any

upon the delivery of services by any political subdivision providing service

political subdivision providing service in the city?

in the city? >> Nothing's been identified in the staff

>> Nothing's been identified in the staff report.

report. >> Nope. And I don't believe there's any

>> Nope. And I don't believe there's any other testimony on the adverse impacts

other testimony on the adverse impacts on those services. So,

on those services. So, uh, those deliberations are done.

uh, those deliberations are done. Would you prefer to move on to the

Would you prefer to move on to the subdivision criteria and then address

subdivision criteria and then address everything at the same time or do you

everything at the same time or do you want to

want to >> deliberate on the annexation and zoning

>> deliberate on the annexation and zoning recommendation?

recommendation? >> Let's do this.

>> Let's do this. >> Let's do this one and get it.

>> Let's do this one and get it. >> Yeah, let's just take care of this one

>> Yeah, let's just take care of this one now. thinking.

now. thinking. >> Yeah, I'll I'll fire up a motion here

>> Yeah, I'll I'll fire up a motion here really quick.

really quick. >> I have something written down already.

>> I have something written down already. Probably

Probably >> not really, but I have a sample motion

>> not really, but I have a sample motion that I can use.

that I can use. So I move to recommend approval of

file the G2 development annexation and zone change file numbers ANNX25-2

zone change file numbers ANNX25-2 and ZC25-1

finding that the requesting zone of RM meets the approval criteria in Postf

meets the approval criteria in Postf Falls Municipal Code 18.20.10 1000 as

Falls Municipal Code 18.20.10 1000 as outlined in our deliberations and direct

outlined in our deliberations and direct staff to prepare a zoning recommendation

staff to prepare a zoning recommendation to be provided to city council. Um and a

to be provided to city council. Um and a recommendation to include a cap on the

recommendation to include a cap on the dwelling units per or the density to

dwelling units per or the density to eight dwelling units per acre and for

eight dwelling units per acre and for there to be no commercial or multifamily

there to be no commercial or multifamily uh development included in that zoning

uh development included in that zoning development agreement.

development agreement. >> Okay, I have a motion. What about u

>> Okay, I have a motion. What about u improvements along Horse Haven that are

improvements along Horse Haven that are not the frontage of this property?

not the frontage of this property? >> I think that's already included in the

>> I think that's already included in the prior annexation agreement. So, it goes

prior annexation agreement. So, it goes with the land.

with the land. >> Okay.

>> I think that's correct. >> And I would make a I would second your

>> And I would make a I would second your existing motion. All right. I have a

existing motion. All right. I have a motion and a second. We have a roll

motion and a second. We have a roll call, please.

call, please. >> Gary,

>> Gary, >> yes. Kimble,

>> yes. Kimble, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Stephenson,

>> Stephenson, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Wilham,

>> Wilham, >> yes. Shriber.

>> yes. Shriber. >> Yes.

>> Okay. Motion carries. Thank you. Uh secondly, the subdivision uh application

secondly, the subdivision uh application for subdivision 25-2

for subdivision 25-2 18.02 acres combined in the residential

18.02 acres combined in the residential mixed zone. This uh motion andor

mixed zone. This uh motion andor approval would be contingent upon the

approval would be contingent upon the reszone and zoning, I'm sorry,

reszone and zoning, I'm sorry, annexation approval on council uh into

annexation approval on council uh into 105 residential lots. Number one, water

105 residential lots. Number one, water uh system that is adequate

uh system that is adequate unless there's a debate on that one.

unless there's a debate on that one. Ross Point Water District has done a

Ross Point Water District has done a will well will serve letter.

will well will serve letter. >> Yeah, agreed.

>> Yeah, agreed. >> Seeing a nod. Uh number two, adequate uh

>> Seeing a nod. Uh number two, adequate uh provisions have been made for public

provisions have been made for public sewage system that can can accommodate

sewage system that can can accommodate these sewage flows and again the city of

these sewage flows and again the city of Post Falls has uh indicated service

Post Falls has uh indicated service would be available.

would be available. >> Yep. sewers available and they have a

>> Yep. sewers available and they have a plan for it within their subdivision.

plan for it within their subdivision. >> Number three, uh proposed streets are

>> Number three, uh proposed streets are consistent with the transportation

consistent with the transportation element of the comprehensive plan.

element of the comprehensive plan. >> Yeah, they're they're widening Singinga

>> Yeah, they're they're widening Singinga and Horse Haven in conformance with the

and Horse Haven in conformance with the transportation master plan. And they're

transportation master plan. And they're not only that, but they're also

not only that, but they're also providing connectivity to adjoining

providing connectivity to adjoining properties um as best they can to the

properties um as best they can to the south um to provide for good

south um to provide for good connectivity um and future road

connectivity um and future road networks.

And on the proposed streets, uh, you had suggested that, um, including a

suggested that, um, including a condition for the future private roadway

condition for the future private roadway to be a sinking fund in the HOA, um,

to be a sinking fund in the HOA, um, also addresses the consistency and the

also addresses the consistency and the impact on this future city services or

impact on this future city services or if they were to try to unprivatize those

if they were to try to unprivatize those streets in the future.

streets in the future. >> Correct.

>> Correct. >> I'm just pointing that out. See, see if

>> I'm just pointing that out. See, see if I'm getting a nod there. Yeah, I think

I'm getting a nod there. Yeah, I think the goal is to hope hopefully they won't

the goal is to hope hopefully they won't have to that they're as you know solvent

have to that they're as you know solvent that that's the goal to set them up for

that that's the goal to set them up for success, right?

success, right? >> Yes, sir.

>> Yes, sir. >> Not just kick the can.

>> Not just kick the can. >> Well, and on that note, I would say it's

>> Well, and on that note, I would say it's it's not just the private streets. It's

it's not just the private streets. It's any common area.

any common area. >> It really is. I mean, if I'm not

>> It really is. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, the Fieldstone HOA struggles

mistaken, the Fieldstone HOA struggles with maintaining and funding their

with maintaining and funding their >> open their acres and acres of or at

>> open their acres and acres of or at least in the past they did. It's getting

least in the past they did. It's getting better.

better. >> That's, you know, that's a 900 and some

>> That's, you know, that's a 900 and some units. So,

units. So, >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. Uh, number four. All areas of the proposed subdivision involving soil or

proposed subdivision involving soil or topographical conditions presenting

topographical conditions presenting hazards have been identified

hazards have been identified >> that were not identified.

>> that were not identified. >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Well, the one concern about drainage, I

>> Well, the one concern about drainage, I would consider that a topographic

would consider that a topographic concern, but that's been addressed and

concern, but that's been addressed and will be addressed,

will be addressed, >> right? Yeah.

>> right? Yeah. >> Through the grading.

>> Through the grading. >> The developer is aware. Yep.

Uh, number five, the area proposed for the subdivision is zoned or will be

the subdivision is zoned or will be zoned for the proposed use and the use

zoned for the proposed use and the use conforms to other requirements found in

conforms to other requirements found in the code.

the code. >> I think the the big thing that comes up

>> I think the the big thing that comes up for me on this particular one is

for me on this particular one is if if it was an R1 zone, which is our

if if it was an R1 zone, which is our lowest density single family residential

lowest density single family residential zone. I think it's our lowest density in

zone. I think it's our lowest density in the city. And that's what our

the city. And that's what our comprehensive plan leans towards.

comprehensive plan leans towards. The the difference in the unit count for

The the difference in the unit count for this particular project is numb overall.

this particular project is numb overall. >> So I don't see this being a stretch.

>> Yeah. And there's certain benefits to going with RM.

going with RM. >> It it gets us more of the variety in

>> It it gets us more of the variety in housing,

housing, >> uh more price points. Um and I don't

>> uh more price points. Um and I don't think that's a bad thing. Agreed.

think that's a bad thing. Agreed. >> Yeah, I think it's

>> Yeah, I think it's >> okay. Thank you. Uh and finally, uh

>> okay. Thank you. Uh and finally, uh number six, adequate plans to ensure the

number six, adequate plans to ensure the community will bear no more than its

community will bear no more than its fair share of costs

fair share of costs by paying fees or otherwise

by paying fees or otherwise >> impact fees and street improvements.

>> impact fees and street improvements. >> It's kind of interesting if you really

>> It's kind of interesting if you really look at the construction cost on a

look at the construction cost on a project like this

project like this that and we always talk about density.

that and we always talk about density. higher density somehow equals

higher density somehow equals affordable. It's not necessarily true,

affordable. It's not necessarily true, especially when you take a look at

especially when you take a look at impact fees and all these

impact fees and all these all the off-site costs, road

all the off-site costs, road improvements and so forth and so on,

improvements and so forth and so on, that adds up to more than the land.

that adds up to more than the land. So, this development is and most

So, this development is and most developments we have coming into the

developments we have coming into the city are actually paying way more than

city are actually paying way more than their share or at least mitigating their

their share or at least mitigating their share of any of these costs. I mean, the

share of any of these costs. I mean, the reality is that especially corner lots

reality is that especially corner lots and corner developments where there's

and corner developments where there's two frontages, they're

two frontages, they're that the city gets a lot of bang for the

that the city gets a lot of bang for the buck when it comes to those. And when I

buck when it comes to those. And when I mean the city, I mean the public,

mean the city, I mean the public, >> right?

>> right? >> Because it's it's really the the future.

>> Because it's it's really the the future. It's planning for the future. Um, and as

It's planning for the future. Um, and as you see them slowly chew away at these

you see them slowly chew away at these infill developments, the infrastructure

infill developments, the infrastructure happens and and you know, standards

happens and and you know, standards change and there's little jogs here and

change and there's little jogs here and there and the sidewalk and the curb and

there and the sidewalk and the curb and whatnot. But the reality is that at the

whatnot. But the reality is that at the end of the day, there's a there's a huge

end of the day, there's a there's a huge benefit to the city transportation

benefit to the city transportation network and really the regional

network and really the regional transportation network that comes with

transportation network that comes with these annexations and these

these annexations and these subdivisions. um building the frontage

subdivisions. um building the frontage improvements.

>> All righty. >> All right. Thank you.

>> All right. Thank you. >> I'd like to make a motion.

>> I'd like to make a motion. >> I would

There we go. And John, you had a a condition of

And John, you had a a condition of approval modification for number four, I

approval modification for number four, I believe it was, that we spoke about.

believe it was, that we spoke about. >> Yeah, it alluded to the fact that you

>> Yeah, it alluded to the fact that you would have um prior to phase three

would have um prior to phase three completed the open space and the

completed the open space and the frontage improvements would either be

frontage improvements would either be completed or bonded for.

completed or bonded for. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> But the way it reads now is proposed

>> But the way it reads now is proposed subdivision must be completed in two

subdivision must be completed in two phases,

phases, >> right? So,

>> right? So, >> so we would modify that condition.

>> so we would modify that condition. >> So, okay. My motion will modify that

>> So, okay. My motion will modify that condition to what you just said

condition to what you just said >> because I'm not going to repeat it.

>> because I'm not going to repeat it. >> Um, but it's on the record.

>> Um, but it's on the record. >> No more than three phases.

>> No more than three phases. >> Yeah. No more than three phases and

>> Yeah. No more than three phases and >> all common area improvements to be done

>> all common area improvements to be done before three phase three.

before three phase three. >> FA

>> FA prior to the com. Yeah. prior to the

prior to the com. Yeah. prior to the completion of phase three or prior to

completion of phase three or prior to >> commencing

>> commencing >> commencing phase three

>> commencing phase three and all frontage improvements shall be

and all frontage improvements shall be either constructed or bonded for prior

either constructed or bonded for prior to phase three.

to phase three. >> Did you say open space?

>> Did you say open space? >> Frontage improvements.

>> Frontage improvements. >> Yeah, we'd want the open space completed

>> Yeah, we'd want the open space completed too.

too. >> Oh, I said completed and and then that

>> Oh, I said completed and and then that to be completed the frontage improvement

to be completed the frontage improvement to be either completed or bonded.

to be either completed or bonded. >> Okay, cool. Thanks. Sorry. Okay. So, I

>> Okay, cool. Thanks. Sorry. Okay. So, I move to a approve

move to a approve the G2

the G2 subdivision

subdivision finding that it meets approval criteria

finding that it meets approval criteria in Post Falls municipal code 17.12.060H

in Post Falls municipal code 17.12.060H 060H as outlined in our deliberations

060H as outlined in our deliberations subjects to conditions

subjects to conditions 1 through 14 with number four as

1 through 14 with number four as modified previously stated adding a

modified previously stated adding a condition of approval.

condition of approval. um requiring the developer to put into

um requiring the developer to put into the CCRs a mechanism

the CCRs a mechanism for a sinking fund to provide for the

for a sinking fund to provide for the eventual resurfacing

eventual resurfacing uh and maintenance of the private road

uh and maintenance of the private road infrastructure.

infrastructure. uh ensuring that there is adequate

uh ensuring that there is adequate funding

funding um mechanisms in place for future

um mechanisms in place for future maintenance

maintenance and direct staff to prepare a written

and direct staff to prepare a written reason decision to that effect.

reason decision to that effect. Could you change that wording on your

Could you change that wording on your last one to say something along the

last one to say something along the lines of uh CCNRs to include a funding

lines of uh CCNRs to include a funding mechanism for maintenance and capital

mechanism for maintenance and capital replacement of common

replacement of common common areas, common amenities, common

common areas, common amenities, common features. It's just

features. It's just >> Yes.

>> Yes. >> So it's not just the private road,

>> So it's not just the private road, >> not just private road, but all those

>> not just private road, but all those things. Yes,

things. Yes, >> that makes sense.

>> that makes sense. So noted.

So noted. >> So amended

>> So amended >> and conditioned on annexation approval.

>> and conditioned on annexation approval. >> And conditioned upon annexation

>> And conditioned upon annexation approval. I thought that that was one of

approval. I thought that that was one of them.

them. >> Oh, it is.

>> Oh, it is. >> I thought so.

>> I thought so. >> I can't read anymore.

>> I can't read anymore. >> So based on that, I would second that

>> So based on that, I would second that motion.

motion. >> Yeah. I'm sorry.

>> One. >> No, you're right. Was not one. So thank

>> No, you're right. Was not one. So thank you.

you. >> No, I think it's number one.

>> No, I think it's number one. >> I thought it was number one.

>> I thought it was number one. >> Yeah, it is. All right. There it is.

>> Yeah, it is. All right. There it is. Yeah, that's number one.

Yeah, that's number one. >> All right.

>> All right. >> All right.

>> All right. >> It's getting late, but we're not that

>> It's getting late, but we're not that late.

late. >> Adding number one again.

>> Adding number one again. >> Motion on the floor.

>> Motion on the floor. >> Second.

>> Second. >> And we have a second. Roll call, please.

>> And we have a second. Roll call, please. >> Shriber,

>> Shriber, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Wilham,

>> Wilham, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Stephenson,

>> Stephenson, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Kimble,

>> Kimble, >> yes.

>> yes. >> Gary,

>> Gary, >> yes.

>> Next item on the agenda, administrative or staff reports. Um there's none.

or staff reports. Um there's none. >> Commissioner comments.

>> Commissioner comments. >> How did uh postfall's days go uh in

>> How did uh postfall's days go uh in terms of soliciting feedback for

terms of soliciting feedback for comprehensive plan?

comprehensive plan? >> Um postfalls days actually I thought it

>> Um postfalls days actually I thought it went pretty good. We had a pretty good

went pretty good. We had a pretty good interaction both uh Friday evening and

interaction both uh Friday evening and Saturday. It stayed pretty busy.

Saturday. It stayed pretty busy. >> Good. you know, we had, you know, about

>> Good. you know, we had, you know, about I think 378

I think 378 people do trying to get the penny pole.

people do trying to get the penny pole. >> Oh, cool.

>> Oh, cool. >> And then we had I think close I mean a

>> And then we had I think close I mean a pretty good showing on the mini poll and

pretty good showing on the mini poll and then we were able to get a word out on

then we were able to get a word out on the we have a a 30 question survey

the we have a a 30 question survey that's currently we're taking out till

that's currently we're taking out till August 11th. So we I we was able to get

August 11th. So we I we was able to get some cards out for that. We have about I

some cards out for that. We have about I thinkundred and

thinkundred and 50ish, I believe,

50ish, I believe, >> of responses in that plus or minus a

>> of responses in that plus or minus a little bit. Um, then in addition to

little bit. Um, then in addition to that, I did go to the market on the last

that, I did go to the market on the last two Wednesdays on those music. Still

two Wednesdays on those music. Still handing out little coasters for giving

handing out little coasters for giving people information to fill out the

people information to fill out the surveys. So, hopefully we'll get that

surveys. So, hopefully we'll get that info. But so far, it seems like it's

info. But so far, it seems like it's going pretty good. We're getting a

going pretty good. We're getting a pretty good idea of stuff. And then on

pretty good idea of stuff. And then on our website, we actually gave uh if you

our website, we actually gave uh if you go to the comp plan, there's a brief

go to the comp plan, there's a brief overview of the results of both the

overview of the results of both the penny pole and the mini pole. So you

penny pole and the mini pole. So you could go review that if you want to.

could go review that if you want to. >> Excellent. Thank you.

>> Excellent. Thank you. >> Very cool.

>> Very cool. Any other comments?

Any other comments? >> It's nice to be on this side of the

>> It's nice to be on this side of the podium now.

podium now. >> All right. Next motion is adjournment.

>> All right. Next motion is adjournment. All in favor? I

All in favor? I >> I

>> I adjourned.

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YouTube Transcript:Post Falls Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting - July 29, 2025

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Post Falls Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting - July 29, 2025