India's recent slip in gender equality rankings highlights systemic issues beyond policy, emphasizing the need to address deeply ingrained societal norms, patriarchal structures, and the undervaluation of women's unpaid labor to achieve true economic empowerment.
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uh Elsa thank you so much for taking up
the time to talk to Global compass and
Strat News
global thanks nanana for having me I'm
so happy to speak with you on this very important
important
topic absolutely I would first like to
ask you this news that has come out of
India slipping two places how
significant is it in the largest scheme
of things it is significant but it's not
surprising let's put it that way so as
somebody who works on sexual and gender-based
gender-based
violence I am not surprised because in a
way women's lack of financial
Independence is a form of violence it's
a harm that Society is causing against
us simply because she does not
necessarily have access to all the
opportunities her male counterparts have
is it easy for her to open a bank
account is it easy for her to access
money make financial decisions free of
any interference from her family members
is financial literacy taught to her is
she in the workforce or is she not
allowed to work by her family so on and
so forth so we have to when we have
indices like this we have to Deep dive
and think about why is India slipping
when other countries are improving and
even if we take our own
country we don't necessarily have to
compare ourselves with other people are
we happy with the State of Affairs in
our own country and what is it that is
needed to improve the lives of everybody
including women who are pretty much half the
the
population right uh you know you you
talked of you just said are we happy
with the state of things right now now
for for the past quite a few years um
the government or or India has been
working on addressing the issue of
gender pay Gap is what I believe where
are we going wrong I mean if if if is
there inadequate
implementation of anti-discriminatory
policies what is the issue here so
policy is one thing education and
societal Norms are another so on one
hand you may have women friendly
policies that the government has
introduced you may have laws like
prevention of sexual harassment at the
workplace act you may have great
maternity benefits like 6 months of
maternity cover for a woman but is this
accompanied by education and I'm saying
education in the broad sense
because most of these issues that hold
women back stem from patriarchy and when
you unpack
patriarchy it's harmful societal gender Norms
Norms
that restrict women from achieving their
full potential they have certain
expectations of men
certain expectations of women and often
this is then used adversely to hold
women back so it's not enough so take
for example just the maternity
policy how many uh because of the six
months cover a lot of companies are you
know choosing not to recruit women
because they have and when they are
recruiting young women maybe in the
interview they asking
them are you going to get married or if
she's married when are you going to have
a baby what business is it of theirs you
know but these are these influence
decisions whether to uh hire her in the
first place whether to give her a
promotion and so on and so forth so a
lot of we are seeing a push back on that
policy so on one hand you may have great
policies but then how are they being
implemented and is is someone making
that you know making an attempt to study
is that having an adverse effect on
participation of women in the workforce
then if you look at these indices they
calculate where women are participating
in the economic
Workforce and are being paid right but
there's a pay Gap 40 uh Rupees to every
00 rupees so yes are we being
transparent about pay pay scales I think
we should make all companies uh you know
um and all employers be more transparent
about that but coming back to women's
work a lot of the work women do is often not
not
paid and they do not just work in their
families and for their households they
also do it for their communities
take for example the Asha workers or
community health workers community
health workers may not even be paid and
ASAS get paid very little but if you
think of the pandemic who were really
the backbone of the health system that
helped India get through it were the
ashas right assisting the doctors the
nurses the paramedics Etc so I feel a
lot of the work that will women do on a
daily basis is not accounted for and we
have to relook at how we view that work
measure that work compensate for that
work and so on and also help people
shift their thinking that it's not only
a woman's job to provide such care it's
also you know the job of men in society
so ultimately I think it boils down to
education that must accompany policy
implementation but also a holistic way
of implementing these policies so that
they don't um have a backlash again on
women right so you spoke of the very
important uh relationship between policy
and education you know and initiatives
are required we you you spoke about the
gender roles and you spoke about
invisible labor that women do and the
triple roles that women perform in terms
of household and work and
Community but you know it's very uh
surprising and alarming I would say how
come countries like Bangladesh countries
like Sri Lanka how are they doing so
well what are they doing right that we
aren't I'm not an expert in their
economic policies but what I can see
from the outside is that maybe they have
stronger macroeconomic policies maybe
they have um industries that have more
women in the workforce so if you take
both Sri Lanka and Bangladesh they are
big textile hubs you know so they are
the um factories for the large labels
that then get sold in all the major
department stores and uh our those are
jobs often that women uh work in you
know so maybe that's one of the reasons
that they have more industries that have
women Centric jobs but at the end of the
day like I said earlier we you know we
can get inspiration from Sri Lanka in
fact it should make us feel a shame that
they have a better rating than us but I
feel India should look at itself India
is very different from Sri Lanka and
Bangladesh both in size and composition
of populations and I feel we have
to relook at
ourselves very honestly you know not
just as a techb exercise relook at our
policies relook at how they are being
implemented and then we can set an
example for the world to
follow uh we don't always have to copy
what other people are doing we can be
very Innovative ourselves we have the
best brains in the world why can't we
solve this problem so I would encourage
take this index as you know a mirror
being shown to us we have a gap that
needs to be addressed it needs to be
addressed urgently because look at the
other side all the big uh Consulting
companies and every single economic
report says that if there was more
participation of women in the the
economy it would only be beneficial to
the GDP of the country right and also is
GDP the right metric for success and
progress that needs to be relooked at
but but in reality if more women were in the
the
workforce would that translate into more
money for everybody so that they can be
better off at the same time it should
not come at the cost of women only
shouldering the burden of care work at
home because then she's doing a whole
job at home and then a whole job outside
of home and that is not fair you know
and post pandemic maybe women are
exhausted they need time and they need
mental health they need all kinds of
resources for their well-being and we
haven't even looked at that in our
policies it has been said that it will
take more than a century to achieve a
semblance of uh you know gender pay
equality so perhaps you know the work
the current working system the
capitalist working system was never
designed for women never designed to
include or incorporate women but Nan I
would no nanja nanana I would like to
say that you know corporates are one
then there's government then there's
also you know um we are promoting
self-employment right amongst women
entrepreneurship but in India
entrepreneurship is always focused on
the big uh unicorns and you know
everybody should be so
successful um and those are Amplified
when it comes to women what I've
realized is they want to work from home
or close to home also because of their
care work duties which is a reality and
that gets sorted out they can't and I'm
not saying that is good or not but this
is my observation so how can we also
amplify and celebrate microenterprises
especially by women make Capital more
accessible to them give them the skills
that they need to start their own
businesses give them mentoring support
mentoring is highly critical we've
integrated mentoring in our programs at
Red Dot found foundation and most of the
time these women and girls just need
somebody to tell them they can do it and
they need to see others who are doing it
and then you know they have the
confidence to go ahead so I would say
it's not just the corporates because in
some ways the corporates are doing a lot
you know and it's not all corporates are
bad you know corporates are doing their
bit but how do we have a multipronged
approach where women have choices we are
not only forcing them to be beauticians
or tailor things that they don't like
but there are so many jobs that can be
done from home maybe Bangladesh and Sri
Lanka have identified those so how can
we bring jobs to women in a place where
they feel comfortable and that they have
the flexible hours or flexible work
times or work conditions that they can
excel in and then how do we celebrate
micro Enterprises because if you think
about your mother your grandmother
they've always been
entrepreneurial but because often they
didn't make lots of money we never
Associated them as
entrepreneurs but I do believe that all
of us have mothers and grandmothers and
aunties who've been you know earning
that extra Buck to give us a good meal
or a you know a nice outfit for Diwali
or something like that and that needs to be
celebrated right thank you very much
Elsa that was uh very nice uh insightful
uh you know uh thoughts that you shared
with us and I think of course a lot
needs to be done I mean a lot is
happening is as far as there's a
conversation on Child Care providing
Child Care for Women at workplaces which
will anyway increase productivity and
you know um have less attrition and that
is so important so you know of course
not all corporates are bad but I thought
I'll just throw that thought out there
that you know do have do people really
want because you know your history has
shown right that you know women were not
allowed to work in so many places single
women not allowed to rent homes in so
many you know those things we have we
have struggled we have some of us have
managed to overcome those challenges but
long way to go definitely and I think
organiz ations like yours are doing a
lot of good work in that and I
congratulate you on what you're doing
and I wish you and your work every
success in the field of gender
empowerment and I do hope to keep
connecting with you and talking to you
further thank you very much [Music]
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