0:00 [Music]
0:03 The
0:06 [Music]
0:09 Economist hello and welcome to the
0:11 intelligence from The Economist I'm your
0:14 host Jason Palmer every week day we
0:16 provide a fresh perspective on the
0:18 events shaping your
0:20 [Music]
0:24 world Nigerian politics is a nasty place
0:27 for women our correspondent said says
0:30 that's apparent in the details of a
0:32 sexual harassment Scandal that'll be
0:34 litigated in a parliamentary hearing
0:38 today and there's one behavior that
0:41 employees find more annoying than any
0:43 other having their ideas stolen but our
0:47 columnist says there are plenty of
0:49 reasons to forgive thieving colleagues
0:51 or to wait for the theft to backfire
0:55 [Music]
1:01 first up
1:09 though 10 days ago America carried out
1:12 the largest air strikes on Yemen since
1:14 president Trump took office again the
1:17 targets were radar and drone systems
1:19 used by houti rebels an iran-backed
1:22 militia that's been threatening trade
1:24 routes in the Red Sea since
1:26 2023 you know who wasn't surprised by
1:29 the strikes Jeffrey Goldberg
1:31 editor-in-chief of the Atlantic magazine
1:34 you know why because he had been added
1:36 to a group on the encrypted messaging
1:38 app signal in which everybody who's
1:40 anybody in America's security
1:42 establishment was plotting out the
1:44 attacks and you know who claimed not to
1:47 know a damn thing about it you're saying
1:49 that they had what they they were using
1:51 signal uh to coordinate on sensitive
1:54 materials and having to do with
1:56 what having to do with what what were
1:59 they talking about with the hooes the
2:01 hooes you mean the attack on the hooes
2:04 well it couldn't have been very
2:05 effective because the attack was very
2:06 effective I can tell you that I don't
2:08 know anything about it you're you're
2:10 telling me about it for the first time
2:12 anybody
2:13 else it all adds up to a really
2:16 genuinely breathtaking lapse in security
2:19 whether or not the president knew you
2:22 know the kind of lapse that could derail
2:24 a Clinton campaign and journalists the
2:27 world over are having a field day with
2:30 Revelations every journalist looking at
2:33 this story is thinking why didn't they
2:36 add me because this is an incredible
2:39 scoop shashan Joi is our defense editor
2:43 and then the second thought is my God
2:46 this is just an extraordinary data
2:48 breach this is astonishing incompetence
2:50 astonishingly bad handling of classified
2:52 information and very revealing about the
2:55 inner workings of the Trump
2:57 Administration okay so let's go through
3:00 how this came to pass so it begins on
3:03 March 11th Jeffrey Goldberg he's the
3:05 editor-in-chief of the Atlantic magazine
3:07 he gets a request on Signal which is for
3:10 those who who don't use it this is an
3:11 encrypted messaging app it's a little
3:13 bit like iMessage or Whatsapp it's often
3:16 viewed by people in defense and National
3:19 Security circles as being a little bit
3:21 more secure than those other apps and he
3:23 gets a connection request from someone
3:24 who appears to be Mike Waltz who is the
3:26 National Security adviser of the United
3:28 States the NSA two days later things
3:31 take an even stranger turn when Goldberg
3:34 is added to a discussion group called
3:36 the houthi PC small group now I need to
3:39 break that down a bit Jason the houthis
3:40 are the armed group in Yemen that's been
3:42 attacking shipping and PC means the
3:45 principal committee which is kind of the
3:47 group of senior officials who make
3:49 decisions in the US government so this
3:51 looks like it's a group that's created
3:53 to coordinate upcoming military action
3:56 against the houthi militia in Yemen
3:58 there are 18 members they appear to
4:00 include JD Vance the vice president
4:02 Marco Rubio the Secretary of State Tulsi
4:04 gabard the Director of National
4:05 Intelligence John Ratcliffe the CIA
4:07 director Pete hex the defense secretary
4:09 many many more as well what then follows
4:12 is an incredible series of messages
4:15 deliberating over whether the United
4:17 States should bomb Yemen and then
4:19 ultimately Pete Heth tests the war plans
4:21 themselves incredibly detailed messages
4:24 about the weapons that will be used the
4:25 targets so he ends up knowing about this
4:28 strike 2 hours before the rest of the
4:30 world and this ends up being a quite
4:32 remarkable leak of very sensitive
4:34 information and so in those messages
4:37 Beyond to the detailed military plans
4:39 what do you see there's lots it's in a
4:42 way the sort of chat you might have with
4:43 your friends Jason except presumably
4:46 you're not discussing the bombing of
4:47 Yemen it's Laden with Emojis there's a
4:50 great moment where you know there's
4:52 prayer emojis after the strikes occur
4:54 there's one with flexed muscles and
4:57 American flags and fire it's it's a sort
5:00 of very colloquial casual conversation
5:02 Jeffrey Goldberg has been pretty
5:05 responsible he's redacted the most
5:06 sensitive information in these chats
5:08 he's for example not told us the names
5:10 of serving CIA officers he's not told us
5:13 details of the weapons the targets but
5:16 what you see is that the way this
5:19 Administration talks about Europe in
5:21 public is the way they talk about it in
5:23 private they do not like Europeans you
5:26 have JD Vance saying I hate bailing
5:28 Europe out again Pete Heth says I fully
5:31 share your loathing of European free
5:34 loading it's pathetic Steven Miller
5:36 who's a White House official basically
5:38 says how do we Bill the Europeans for
5:40 this operation how do we bomb Yemen
5:42 without consulting them and then send
5:44 them an invoice for it the concern they
5:47 have is that reopening the Red Sea which
5:51 the houthis are disrupting would benefit
5:54 Europe and Egypt more than it would
5:56 benefit America so they some somehow
6:00 want to know why are we doing this why
6:02 is America doing this it gives you a
6:04 hint of that opposition to kind of
6:07 military entanglement abroad
6:09 particularly from JD Vance this really
6:11 shows you that contempt for Europe that
6:14 we see in public that's exactly what
6:17 they think in private as well and in so
6:19 far as we haven't learned anything new
6:21 about the stance of the administration
6:23 on Europe how serious is this breach
6:26 really I think it's a pretty serious
6:28 breach look officials many countries use
6:31 signal to talk to journalists and others
6:33 and to talk to each other it's not
6:35 unconscionable that Mike Waltz was using
6:37 signal it's not unconscionable he has
6:38 Jeffrey Goldberg in his contact book you
6:40 know officials talk to journalists great
6:42 shock I think there's two mistakes here
6:44 one of them is Mike Waltz adding a
6:45 journalist to this internal chat but the
6:48 much much more serious breach is the use
6:51 of this unclassified system you know
6:54 it's an encrypted app but it's operating
6:56 on an unclassified unsecure phone to
6:58 discuss highly classified system that's
7:01 a breach of American law it's a breach
7:04 of the law it's what the Republicans
7:06 were very angry at Hillary Clinton about
7:08 back in 2016 and by the way one of the
7:12 particularly concerning things here is
7:15 that Steve witkoff who is really the
7:16 point man on Russia Ukraine talks
7:19 appears to have been in Moscow at the
7:22 time that some of these messages were
7:23 being sent to him that raises the
7:26 question of whether his phone with these
7:28 conversations with that channel and
7:30 perhaps many other sensitive Chats on
7:32 Russia Ukraine related issues were on a
7:34 phone that were accessible to Russian
7:35 intelligence Services I think there will
7:37 be real questions asked about this you
7:39 know last week I spoke on the
7:41 intelligence about the five eyes
7:43 intelligence Alliance I said allies
7:45 would be wondering whether the Trump
7:46 Administration is capable of keeping
7:48 secrets safe this is not the kind of
7:51 thing that will fill them with
7:52 confidence on that front but will there
7:55 be any accountability is the question
7:57 this is an Administration that can deny
7:59 deflect and to delay ad nauseum do you
8:02 think heads will roll well you're right
8:04 it denies it deflects Pete hex's claim
8:06 that he wasn't texting War plans appears
8:08 to be a lie I think that Mike Waltz is
8:11 in real trouble let's remember here
8:13 Waltz is more of an orthodox Republican
8:15 you know he's not a make America great
8:17 again super trumpy guy in the way that
8:19 JD Vance is in the way that Steve
8:21 witkoff is and so I think Waltz was
8:24 already probably on slightly shakier
8:26 ground he is also the man who is
8:28 supposed to be coordinating these
8:30 meetings that's what the National
8:31 Security advisor does I think that the
8:33 White House will be very angry at him
8:35 heg Seth has also made a serious breach
8:38 here but hex is more of a trumpy guy and
8:41 you can see the way he's come out
8:43 fighting is the way that Trump probably
8:44 likes so I have a feeling that Waltz
8:47 could get in more trouble for this the
8:49 National Security Council says there's a
8:51 review underway to find out how an
8:53 inadvertent number was added to the
8:55 chain I don't think we need the FBI for
8:58 that Jason I think we can see how it
8:59 happened Mike Walt did it but the funny
9:01 thing I thought is that they're also
9:03 insisting that this exchange was quote a
9:05 demonstration of the deep and thoughtful
9:08 policy coordination between senior
9:10 officials all I'll say is that anyone
9:12 familiar with the multi-decade history
9:13 of American foreign policy deliberations
9:15 has probably never seen a flexing bicep
9:18 an American flag a fire Emoji in the
9:20 great historical record when discussing
9:22 American wars in Vietnam Iraq and Korea
9:25 let's remember that this comes days
9:28 after Steve witkoff gave an interview to
9:31 Tucker Carlson a pro Trump journalist in
9:34 which he exhibited breathtaking
9:37 ignorance about most basic elements of
9:39 his brief in negotiating with Russia he
9:41 couldn't name two of the five occupied
9:43 regions that Russia claims despite being
9:45 apparently quite enthusiastic to give
9:47 them away I think that events like this
9:50 will compound the sense that this is an
9:54 Administration that just lacks a basic
9:58 sense of coh cerent foreign policy
10:00 process and that should be a concern to
10:03 Congress it should be a concern to
10:04 Americans and it will be a concern to
10:06 allies Shong thank you very much for
10:08 your time as always thanks Jason I'll
10:10 see you in the economist signal
10:16 [Music]
10:25 chat my first trial into politics was in
10:29 the year
10:30 2019 under the platform of the Social
10:33 Democratic party in 2019 Natasha akoti
10:37 UDA unsuccessfully ran for governor of
10:40 Nigeria's Middle Belt State Ki it was a
10:44 very tough
10:45 Journey it was laed with violence
10:48 violence in all forms the physical
10:50 attacks of my person my constituents the
10:54 my followers who were killed the houses
10:57 were burnt down uh um they were beaten
11:00 up every time we went out to campaign we
11:03 were beaten up we were shot at she lost
11:06 that election but undeterred she decided
11:09 to run for the
11:10 senate or Ogen is our Africa
11:13 correspondent the day before that vote
11:16 in 2023 she faced yet another obstacle
11:20 now all the roads the five roads they
11:22 were caught should I say golles were
11:24 made out of them five major roads to her
11:27 constituency were dug out so that
11:29 election materials couldn't get to them
11:31 and it took her 6 months before she was
11:33 finally sworn in as Senator because she
11:35 had to appeal for rejected ballots to be
11:37 included in the vote throughout her
11:39 entire journey into politics she's faced
11:42 violence verbal abuse cyber bullying and
11:44 more it seems to be the regular Norm
11:47 here especially when you're a woman her
11:49 story is a reflection of the harsh
11:51 conditions that women face in Nigerian
11:55 politics and or before we get into that
11:57 sort of bigger political picture how
11:59 have things gone for Senator akoti Huda
12:02 since she's been sworn in well they're
12:04 not going too well at the moment most
12:06 recently she struggled to get bills
12:08 passed and was told to sit in a remote
12:10 corner of the chamber where she'd
12:11 basically be out of public view for
12:13 seven months I have not been able to
12:16 raise my motions contribute to debates
12:19 or take second readings of my numerous
12:23 bills that the Senate President had
12:25 silenced me on the floor of the senate
12:28 for the past seven months Senator abti
12:31 claims that the reason she's being
12:33 singled out like this is retaliation by
12:35 God ababio the Senate President for
12:38 rejecting his sexual
12:39 advances so after refusing to sit where
12:42 she was told she formally accused him
12:44 the Senate President of sexual
12:46 harassment the Ethics Committee got
12:48 together and hastily recommended that
12:49 she be suspended and the Senate
12:51 President did exactly that on March the
12:53 6th suspending her for 6 months
12:55 withdrawing all her security he said
12:57 she's not allowed anywhere near the
12:59 National Assembly or her office
13:01 basically these are some of the harshest
13:03 conditions that we've ever seen
13:04 regarding a senator suspension now the
13:06 Senate President goak pabio denies
13:09 sexually harassing her and he says that
13:11 Senator abbotti suspension is actually
13:13 unrelated to her complaint against him
13:16 that she was suspended for gross
13:17 misconduct and there's an initial court
13:19 hearing which is slated for today and
13:21 coming back to that broader political
13:23 picture you were hinting at this is
13:24 perhaps not so surprising in Nigerian
13:26 politics or is it unfortunately it's not
13:28 women are very very underrepresented in
13:31 Nigeria's politics it has one of the
13:33 lowest shares of female representation
13:35 in government in the world no Nigerian
13:38 state has ever elected a female governor
13:40 no major party has put a woman on a
13:42 presidential ticket of the 360 members
13:45 in the lower house only 17 are women
13:47 Senator Aban is one of only four women
13:50 in the entire Senate and the few women
13:52 who do then make it to politics often
13:54 find themselves silenced which is part
13:56 of what is getting Senator so riled up
13:59 she was laughed at when she presented
14:01 her sexual harassment petition in the
14:02 Senate there's been comments about her
14:04 outfits some people suggested that her
14:06 husband should apologize on her behalf
14:08 for making a scene during the suspension
14:10 ruling her mic was turned off before she
14:12 could even defend herself and what's
14:15 behind this what is it that is causing
14:17 this disrespect of women in politics I
14:19 think the reasons are mostly cultural
14:21 ultimately Nigeria is still a deeply
14:24 patriarchal society and a lot of people
14:26 find and still find the idea of women
14:28 being such powerful positions just a
14:31 little irksome and politics is just
14:33 another area of life where we see that
14:35 women are infantilized all the time sen
14:38 aoti keeps being referred to by her
14:39 first name she's being called a girl a
14:41 Troublesome girl and this is why it's
14:44 near impossible for women without
14:46 powerful backers so whether that's
14:48 husbands or bosses to break into
14:50 politics because they're sometimes
14:51 treated as proxies for men and it's
14:54 because these attitudes are so
14:55 widespread that senator's case is
14:57 resonating with so many many people
14:59 there are parallels that can be drawn
15:01 with Nigerian women across Society who
15:03 are just trying to be good at their jobs
15:05 and you say there's an initial court
15:07 hearing today about her suspension how
15:09 do you think that's going to go it's a
15:11 tough question I don't think it's
15:12 looking good if the court case goes her
15:14 way she could return to her seat but
15:17 it's going to be a very long fight
15:19 because everything takes ages to go
15:20 through Nigeria's courts which means
15:21 that there might not even be a ruling
15:23 before her suspension is over but also
15:25 all the suspensions that have ever been
15:27 overturned through the courts before
15:29 four have only been of men and of men
15:31 with powerful backers she doesn't even
15:33 have that much support within the Senate
15:35 let alone Beyond it and even among the
15:37 few other female senators who are in the
15:39 house their responses have ranged from
15:42 weak to outright disappointing so not
15:45 only is she a woman but she's
15:47 politically unpopular and from an
15:48 opposition party in fact the party that
15:51 she beat to get this seat the one that
15:53 she had to fight for her Victory against
15:55 is already trying to look for ways to
15:56 kick her out so the Electoral commission
15:58 is actually received a petition to
16:00 recall her from her seat so it's not
16:02 impossible that she gets her seat back
16:04 that she finds a way to overcome this
16:06 but a lot is riding on the presumed
16:09 Independence of the
16:10 Judiciary all right it's always a
16:12 pleasure thanks for your time thanks for
16:14 having me Jason
16:18 [Music]
16:26 [Music]
16:30 I don't want to talk about the specific
16:32 things that my colleagues do that annoy
16:34 me because I think they can hear me
16:37 right
16:40 now so instead let's talk about
16:42 something we can all agree is
16:44 infuriating someone's stealing your
16:47 ideas and getting credit for them it's
16:50 an innate kind of Fury psychologists say
16:53 that children as young as five
16:54 disapprove of this kind of plagiarism
16:57 huh wait till they get job
17:00 the concept of credit stealing I think
17:02 is pretty familiar to anyone who's been
17:04 in the
17:05 workplace Andrew Palmer no relation
17:08 writes Bartleby our column on work and
17:10 management you come up with what you
17:13 think is a brilliant wi someone else who
17:16 you've just told that to then repeats it
17:19 as if it was their own and doesn't give
17:21 you the credit and it is according to
17:23 most surveys the single most annoying
17:25 habit that people encounter if something
17:27 is really annoying and happens a lot
17:30 what are the reasons to try and remain
17:31 calm so just as a coping mechanism are
17:33 there arguments to think that actually
17:35 this isn't terribly malevolent and I
17:37 think there
17:37 [Music]
17:40 are okay go on when someone Nicks my
17:43 idea why do I not fly off the handle so
17:46 reason one would be that the person
17:47 who's claiming credit doesn't
17:49 necessarily realize that they're doing
17:51 it there is a phenomenon called
17:53 cryptonia which is basically this idea
17:55 of inadvertent plagiarism and you can
17:58 see this being tested in various studies
18:01 where a group of people get into a room
18:03 they're asked to come up with ideas to
18:05 solve a particular problem and then a
18:07 little later there's another session
18:10 where they're asked to recall the ideas
18:13 that they came up with but only their
18:15 own and also to come up with some new
18:16 ideas to solve the same problem and
18:18 people routinely appropriate ideas of
18:22 other people they think they were their
18:24 own ideas and also when they come up
18:26 with supposedly new ideas they're
18:28 actually building on things that were in
18:29 the previous session and that's supposed
18:31 to calm me down oh they probably didn't
18:33 mean to Nick my idea so I should
18:35 probably be cool about it I think it
18:36 should calm you down Jason cuz if it's
18:38 not deliberate if it's not malevolent
18:41 then you're probably doing it yourself
18:44 you should remain calm okay I recognize
18:46 that I have some role to play here but
18:48 give me more coping mechanisms so
18:51 another one would be that Innovation the
18:53 idea of coming up with new things is
18:55 itself kind of a copying mechanism that
18:59 new ideas are not that new that they
19:02 recombine things that have already been
19:04 thought of and also that people are
19:06 often working towards the same solution
19:09 to a problem at the same time they're
19:11 doing so independently that's the idea
19:12 of convergent Innovation and you can see
19:14 that in in various Fields but there's a
19:17 very nice new book called like which is
19:19 about the history of the like button
19:22 popularized by Facebook back in 2009 but
19:26 this book which is by Martin Reeves and
19:28 Bob good
19:29 actually traces out how lots and lots of
19:32 different companies for many years
19:33 before that Facebook moment were
19:36 basically trying to solve the same
19:37 problem like how do you have a very
19:40 short sharp signal from a peer that you
19:43 like a piece of content and that story
19:45 and others like it basically suggest
19:47 that if you do think of something as
19:49 your own idea actually others are likely
19:52 to have had it too at roughly the same
19:54 time and it's probably building on other
19:55 ideas too you see the same sort of thing
19:58 in science ideas popping up in in
20:00 various places at about the same time so
20:02 I I understand that but what about the
20:04 part where somebody nevertheless gets
20:05 credit for it that's the really annoying
20:07 part of this it is annoying and some
20:09 people do but they may not be getting as
20:12 much credit as you fear so hopefully
20:14 people are able to see who's responsible
20:17 for things to see through someone who is
20:19 relentlessly taking credit for other
20:21 people's ideas but also it can back fire
20:24 if you take credit for something it
20:26 might be giving a different kind of
20:27 signal off from the one that you intend
20:29 so there's one study that suggests that
20:32 managers who both brag a little and give
20:35 credit do better that that's a good
20:37 strategy only ever boasting doesn't work
20:40 for you there's another which looks at
20:42 how being proud of something like really
20:44 overtly proud of something is actually a
20:46 kind of negative signal it suggests
20:48 you've hit a ceiling you've exceeded
20:51 your performance and there therefore is
20:54 a worry that oh okay we've maxed out
20:57 here so being slightly
20:59 modest being undemonstrative about doing
21:03 well can play quite well as well
21:06 implicit in in all of that I suppose is
21:08 that some some sort of justice is served
21:11 then people who go around as braggards
21:13 then don't get the credit perhaps we
21:14 think they do there are reason to remain
21:16 calm credit stealing then is I mean by
21:19 that in that casting no big deal yeah I
21:22 I'm not going that far I'm basically
21:23 trying to give some reasons why it may
21:26 not be always malevolent why it may not
21:29 always pay off for the credit stealer
21:32 but there are bound to be instances
21:35 where someone who's doing that a lot and
21:37 is doing so deliberately and is doing so
21:39 with a degree of self- knowledge is not
21:41 behaving well and is probably therefore
21:44 aggregating or appropriating credit in a
21:46 way that they shouldn't Andrew thanks
21:48 very much for your time I'm really glad
21:50 I had the idea that we should speak
21:51 thank you Jason
22:00 [Music]
22:05 that's all for this episode of the
22:07 intelligence we'll see you back here
22:09 tomorrow
22:11 [Music]
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