This content explores the journey and philosophy of Matthew Rugamba, founder of House of Taio, highlighting his evolution from a passionate craftsman to a strategic entrepreneur building a significant African fashion brand. It emphasizes the importance of business acumen, cultural storytelling, and authentic representation in the global fashion landscape.
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The first African fashion billionaire is
not they're not going to have the best
designs, but they're going to have the
best business model. If the West likes
my products, they can come to we're not
going to go and chase uh fashion weeks
around the world.
>> Matthew Rugamba is the founder and
creative director of House of Taio, a
fashion house born in Rwanda and
embraced on the global stage. But the
journey didn't begin with runways or
global recognition.
It began with bow ties crafted by hand,
driven by passion, and rooted in curiosity.
curiosity.
From those early pieces in Kaggali,
House of Taio evolved into one of
Rwanda's most influential fashion
brands, earning international acclaim.
More than a designer, Rugamba is a
cultural architect who understands that
fashion is both art and enterprise. His
passion has matured from craft to
strategy, mastering not only fabric and
form, but the business fundamentals that
sustain creativity.
When I started to realize how difficult
it was,
um I I knew I had to go all in. Patience.
Patience.
>> Patience has been the hardest lesson.
Hello and welcome to Rooted in Quality
by Afroquality. The podcast that brings
you all the people and the ideas and the
movements that are shaping Africa's
creative cultural and economic future.
This is rooted in quality.
Matthew, if someone you met the first
time asked, "Who are you?" Like, "Who
are you really?"
What would be your answer?
Uh, I always struggle with that question
because I feel that when I answer it,
the I should give a I tend to give a
snapshot of where I am right now in this
point of time. I believe human beings
evolve and I feel that I've grown and
I've changed. Right now I am uh I'm a a
relatively new father. Um
thank you. Um and uh a lot of my work, a
lot of um as a designer, as a creative
director, I also look at the bigger
picture now. I look at um you know, I
look at functional fashion. I look at
before maybe I just wanted to look
really nice and like what would I wear
as a dad? what would I wear if I was
carrying four or five bags, you know?
So, it's it's I think that my perception
of myself continues to evolve. Uh but
I'm someone who always looks for
authenticity. Um someone who enjoys
storytelling, um someone who wants to
see um Africa really um
continue to rise. I feel that uh this is
an exciting time for to be young and
African in on the continent and I feel
that it's an opportunity to to um not only
only
create new narratives but also to bring
to the forefront um narratives that
existed before but the world was not
aware of. So I see a lot of uh responsibility.
responsibility.
I see responsibility for myself as a as
I've now become a senior fashion
designer in in in in
you know in the industry. So I have to
look at you know what practices I'm I'm
taking on what ways I'm doing business.
It it will impact whether a parent lets
their kid go to fashion school you know.
So I I see a lot of a lot more
responsibility in my personal life, in
my work life. My team has grown over
times. Um and and I just want to do good
good work. Um I want to celebrate Rwanda
and Africa. I want to um to to change
the way we do business and make this
industry grow. So yeah, if if you are to
put a pin in the spectrum of your life
based on your question about who you
always how you answer the question about
who you are. So if you to put a pin to
say looking back when you were just
starting out as house of tio if you were
to answer that question how different is
that answer from the answer that you're
giving now in terms of when you strip
off being a father
a creative designer everything in terms
of the person. So
So
at that time I would call myself an
aspiring fashion designer that wants to
have stores in New York, London, um that
wants to have runway shows in those countries.
countries.
And the reality is that um that dream of
of of being a big fashion designer then
it was sort of co-opted from other from
you know looking at the western fashion
industry and saying this is the path of
a successful fashion designer but now
you know it's actually 14 years almost
to the day. Um yeah it was actually
yesterday 25th was wow was uh 14 year anniversary
anniversary
that dream and that those goals have
have evolved and changed um and so
I had a vision but part of it wasn't mine.
mine.
Part of it was what I was sort of
conditioned to believe is success. Uh
but at the at the baseline, my goal was
to celebrate where I'm from. And fashion
is, I found, was a really rich way to to
tell stories about where to to to
celebrate and and and and uh you know,
things like dignity, um you know, lifestyle,
lifestyle,
um and character, you know, all these
elements where I I believe we can
celebrate it through things like
fashion, through cuisine, through the
arts. And I found that fashion was the
way that I was going to do that.
>> You know, you said something about if a parent
parent
uh would think and make a decision
whether they would have their child
become a fashion designer, they would
look at what you are doing and if you
are not living right, that's shaped a
certain thought in my mind in terms of
how you see yourself. Is it right to say
you are very conscious in terms of
outside of your fashion? What's the
brand or the person? Matthew Rogamba
represents in the in the community.
>> Um I think that
because I know the the obstacles I faced
when I was starting out and um you do
have people who are closest to you who
worry that I don't know whether they can
succeed in this industry but it's
because they don't have some they don't
have an example for you to follow
>> reference there's no reference. So um
one of the things that really motivated
me in the early days um especially and I
it still motivates me now is
I have to show the brand growing.
I have to show um elements of success because
because
there are people who have told me even
early on when I was really struggling
that because of they saw what I did they
entered the industry or because they saw
what I did they pursued another creative
interest. Um so that's where I see the
sort of responsibility is that I need to
um for our industry to grow for the
creativity for the arts um success is an
important element because maybe their
parents their uncles their aunties
whoever you know their their mentors
will say oh maybe pass by there ask ask
them at house how they did it we've been
watching their story online for all
these years look at how they did it. So,
it's possible. It's within reach.
Everyone is inspired by someone else.
>> Congratulations again on your 14th
anniversary. Do you consider it now
after doing it for 40 years that this is
>> Yes.
>> Or maybe to put the question
differently, in another 40 years time,
would we find you still building House
of Tire?
The hope right now I'll say the hope is
yes but I also hope that it will have evolved
evolved >> definitely
>> definitely
>> um not not just within fashion maybe
within other elements. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Um it's it's become
so tied to my my identity. Um to be
honest I've not really existed in any
other work space. So um you
so my my I've shaped my company the way
I do admin based on my experience. I
have not existed in another really like
whether it's a corporate setting or I
did this straight when I was in school
of school you know actually I started
when I was in school and um so I hope
that uh it will have evolved and and
taken sh you know even a different
shape. I feel even just to make life
interesting um
people take on different roles. Maybe my
role will have shifted within the
company um but still your effort will be
on growing
>> the vision.
>> Yes. And and I think that
one of the key things that I look at is um
um
if I was to strip everything away, what
would House of Tire look like as a
content company? What would it look like
as a restaurant? What would it look like
as a sports team? And
if I'm able to identify characteristics
and elements that remain consistent in
each of those settings, then um this the
sky is the limit. And uh then I I really
I truly believe that we we have
something uh we have something strong.
You started out of school.
At what point did you realize that this
was going to be your life's work? like
Um when I was
so when I when I'm when the idea was
coming to me I I I don't think it was
like a sudden epip epiphany. it was it
was developed over time and um you know
I remember looking around and saying
university is the only time I'll be
surrounded by um peers who are so
experienced in so many different things
and so it was an a great opportunity to
start something. I didn't know what it
was going to be, but it was a good
opportunity to to start something. And
um there were so many people I could ask
for advice. You know, my first
photographers were my classmates, models
were my classmates.
>> Um people that did some of the editing,
graphic work were my classmates. And I
don't think I would have started
anything outside of that context if I
had entered the work space, work
environment. Um,
when I started to realize how difficult
it was,
um, I I knew I had to go all in, I knew
that eventually I would have a family
and maybe I wouldn't be able to take
certain risks. And um, in order for
people to believe in what I was trying
to do or believe that it was possible, I
had there was no halfway. Halfway
wouldn't have got me here. I had to go
all in. And if I failed, I failed still
relatively. So I was still very young,
you know, to be honest. And um
it would have just been part of my
journey. You know, you've just said
something, you realize how difficult it
is and then you decided that because of
that you had to go all in which usually
you don't find a lot of young people
look at the world that way. So that's
why I had to take a pause and actually
also think deeply about it. Most of the
times you meet people and they try
something, it's difficult, they just
give up because they're just moving for
moving forward to the next thing. How
how did you come to that mindset 14
years ago?
>> I think that uh
the challenge excited me but also um I
didn't feel like
I mean what was the cost of failure?
At that point, it wasn't high. I knew it
was going to get it was only going to
get higher. And um I looked at
alternatives of like, okay, if this
doesn't work out, what am I going to do?
And when I realized how much I enjoyed
it, I said, "No, I can't let myself fail
at this point. I have to dig deep. I
have to push myself. I have to um be creative.
creative.
And I have to to
if I couldn't do it alone. So for people
to believe in me, they need to see
especially at that point when you
couldn't couldn't even really guarantee
any salaries you know
and um I needed my team even now I need
my team to continue to trust in me but
that also comes from determination and
uh a drive and a and a self-belief.
Now touching on belief but in the area
of your work there's a concept that I
found while researching for this that's
attributed or you've spoken about
afrodundiism and to be honest until this
year's met gala where there was
something around I think black dandism
or something was the theme I had not
even like I didn't know what that was
and so now looking at 14 years ago you
structuring your style around the
concept of Afrodiism like what exactly
was that and what does it mean to you
versus what maybe the rest of the world
might interpret the concept of of Afrodiism.
Afrodiism.
So when I started House of Tire the I was
was
to put it bluntly I was frustrated. Um I
was really frustrated and and and
annoyed by um the perception that many
people had of Africa. Um and it was felt
it was one-dimensional. Um even in
situations where um you know many of my
classmates at the time I I studied
international relations they are they're
incredibly well read. They stay on top
of the news.
But perceptions of Africa remains
um you know rooted in uh you know
poverty, there's famine, there's disease
and and you know they can't govern
themselves elements of that. And I and I
thought to myself, if these are really
educated people
who are bombarded with with this
narrative of Africa, there's something I
have to change. And I and I believed I
could do that through the arts. Now um
from that sort of um frustration I said
how can we how can I present an
alternative narrative? Oh no, or just
another side, you know. And I now I felt
that the only way to sort of combat
such a negative stereotypes and and
stories is to have something uplifting
that uh that celebrates dignity, pride
um in in one's heritage. And so I knew
it had to be
related to formal wear and but then what
is formal wear? Where did suits come?
Suits the traditional suits came from
from England you know and and then the
world co-opted that and through
colonialism it spread around the world.
I wanted to to say but how did we make
start to make it our own? And so I
started to to do research about
different uh subcultures around the continent.
continent.
um the way they dressed um and and what
was why did they dress a certain way at
a particular time and I was looking at
all the independence movements and those
independence movements were sort of
coupled with um we transition in fashion
um and music and music. Exactly. So um I
wanted to
you know the the idea of dandism
in in I guess in its earliest form was
not they didn't see it as coming from
Africa. So I I I
thought that that word that phrase would
perfectly describe the the the nuances
and the differences of uh the way um in
particular African men
um dressed for occasion. And another
element of it that um sort of inspired
me, I I would always remember going to
church at Easter, especially Easter,
some Christmases and
Christmases I would be in uh in the
rural more rural area and
people don't earn that much, but they're
going to to church in in in in wellored suits.
suits.
polish shoes, you know, you know, the
whole concept of
>> put on their Sunday wear, Sunday best. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> And I said this shows um the respect for
an occasion, the respect for scenario
and that I honestly I only really saw it
in in in Africa, you know, where such
high regard for a particular occasion,
you know,
>> especially, you know, and you're seeing
it weekly for church.
>> Yeah. and and I wanted to sort of
capture that where it's it's not about
the money that's in your pocket.
Obviously, the more money you have,
maybe the more you can do, the more
stage you can be, but even with the minimum,
minimum,
it's it it's a mentality, you know. So
um all those different uh influences
um sort of shaped my idea of Afrodis and
I felt that as had as as house of t is
introduced to the world this is the lens
I want to start with obviously we would
evolve to do many different things but
that was the lens that we had to start
with and that's the lens that and that's
sort of the
the concept that sort of propelled our
work um online the first time I posted.
>> You know, it's interesting what you say
about the way Africans tend to think
about occasions and pre prepare and plan
for such. I had my own root shock like
at a part point in my life when I had
left Ghana and then I went to church
somewhere and I was surprised about how
the thinking and the mindset around
going to church was versus how in
African I want to believe it's the same
in most places where you'd want to put
on your Sunday best for church and
that's like an occasion but then in
other places there was nothing like that.
that.
>> Exactly. But you talked about it and it
just hits me that it's actually very
real. I'm wondering how many other times
or scenarios like that that Africa
actually Africans tend to occasionalize
it but for most people they take it in
the stride like as a normal thing.
That's that's very interesting. But you
you you observed that how old do you
remember like how old you were around
that time when you picked that nuance
up? Um it was well I was around 20 21
between 20 and 22 really. Um but I think
that it was it was in the back of my
mind. Um but I when I went to to to
university in the in the states is when
it now it it's it became a lot clearer.
You know, I was talking to people who
had never seen a tailor and I was like,
man, all my big events, I had to go to a
tad go to a taylor,
>> you know, and everyone everyone in my
family, all my friends were had access
to a t like it's like a barber family.
>> Yeah. As soon as you're a family doctor,
you're lawyer.
>> Exactly. So, and and and realizing that
that's such a foreign concept for some
people. Um, and I remember
for my I think it was my confirmation
and even yeah for my confirmation I had
to go and I was like eight or nine. I
had to go and pick the fabric and then
take it to a tailor and sit and and
watch clothes being made and it was so
long. I I I I remember standing up and I
could feel the bench um for like the
next 30 minutes. My bum on the bench had
become one, you know. I didn't realize
it took clothes so long to make clothes. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but those experiences are are foreign
to many people around the world.
>> You're very big on stories and you talk
about the um the House of Tao brand uh
using it to tell stories. What's one
story that you've never told through
>> You know, I think a big part of stories
for me is also about timing.
And there are some things that I feel
have not uh been fully formed to to tell
to tell yet.
And um I think that there are many
stories that I want to tell about about
the journey
um about uh the challenges
about how um every day you have to make
difficult decisions.
you know creativity versus
what makes business sense.
A lot of the time they differ. So right
now I don't feel like we've been doing
as much storytelling as we did in our
first um sort of 5 years.
>> Okay. Um I think that
my experience in the industry and now us
as a come we're we're sort of going
through a period of evolution
and um we will probably maybe get into
the next phase next year. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And um
and then you will see more of that that storytelling.
storytelling. >> Okay.
>> Okay. um
um
in building a creative business in Rwanda
Rwanda and
and
thinking about how competitive the world
of fashion is like you think people talk
about Milan, New York, Paris or whatever.
whatever.
Did it ever cross your mind that people
would underestimate what you are capable
of just because you are coming from
Rwanda and basing and operating from
Rwanda cuz you went to school abroad. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> You could have decided to say okay this
is what I want to do but I want to do it
in London that place. So did you ever
think that coming to do it in Rwanda
would make people underestimate
>> you? I would say I would say funny
enough that more people underestimated
me here than outside. Um outside it was
an exciting story to tell. Um because
uh firstly you know fashion the arts
you're always looking for something new
what's next and so it was exciting for
many people to hear about a company
doing bow ties from Rwanda. There's like
first of all people wear bhas like that
in Rwanda. Second of all, um this is
exciting. I want to know more. Um the
fashion industry is always eager to know
about what's next what's the next new
thing. Um where you're likely to find
opposition is when you know certain
access to certain things is a lot more
gatekeeping. But to be honest, I never
really reached that uh that level. A lot
of the
I found um that the place we were
underestimated was here, you know, where
someone is like, I'm not going to pay
this amount for your product, you know,
because you look like me.
>> Yes. Or you made it here, you know, and
we had to prove we basically had to
prove ourselves every time a customer
walked in. So like you came all the you
drove all the way to our store
walked around.
There's something that brought you to
the store
and yet you keep trying to downplay the
work that we are doing. You wouldn't
have come if if there was nothing that
that attracted you to this story in the
first place.
>> You see, two things have come up from
what you just said. I think the first
part which maybe will also help um with
our listeners is you talked about making
bow ties out of Rwanda and how novel the
concept sounded when you're out there in
in Europe and other places and I
realized that the story around how oft
started actually we haven't touched on
it that you actually started of making
bow ties
>> before now you expanded into different
categories right okay so I just thought
to put that out there so that it gives a
lot more context to our listeners to be
able to understand the journey and the
trajectory of uh House of Tao. But the
second part of what you said about
somebody who would come and they've
heard nice things about the brand,
everybody sees the quality work that you
do, but still they would want to question
question
whether you are worth that much. Do you
think it's a factor of how we value
ourselves or people want to transpose
the value that they do not have in
themselves in using it to assess how you
see yourself and how you price yourself?
I think that um I think that
when those scenarios happen obviously it
frustrates me but I also have once I
cool down I have to think there's a
reason why that happened and um from my
understanding is you have um a whole machine
machine
around fashion from the west
that is pumping out these stories and
the placement
in movies, in TV shows, and on our TVs,
those are the only that's the only
content we see. So, by the time I always
say that by the time you purchase a
product, you've been conditioned for a
long time.
And so, we would just pop up on their
Instagram page and then they walk into
the store.
I said we're not we're we're we're not
conditioning people to to desire our
product by doing that. So my first
actually the first how I started getting
people to to to wear my products with
the bow ties in particular um I focused
on on something that existed in our
society weddings. So I made sure for the
first couple of weddings I'm telling all
my friends listen you I know you
probably only have one or two suits
maximum at this stages of your life if
you change the bow tie if you wear
different shirt you'll look like you
have six service and so I I was giving
out bow ties so people go to weddings
and like I saw like eight people with
these bies let me go and look for them
so that was a part of us conditioning um
our audience to to take a deeper look
and consider our products. So whenever
something I think when it fails or when
um people walk in and they're
questioning something too much, it's
because we're we haven't um set up the
I guess the the world for our product to
exist. We've done we've not done the
social marketing exactly who make our
people view our products the same way
they would view products from other
parts exactly of the world. You know, I
was telling somebody once that when we
we were talking about building Afro
quality and how difficult it is and all
that and I said that one of the things
that's come to me that if you take a
brand like LVMH there's they've done the
hard work because it's a lot of work
years of consistent conditioning of the
market to think the way they think about
a Gucci or a Louis Vuitton and as
African brands we have to understand
that we can't take any shortcut if we
genuinely want to build the brands that
would past, then you have to be ready to
do the work and be prepared to say you
don't cut corners when it comes to how
you shoot your videos. You don't cut
corners in terms of how you represent
the brand out there because those are
the little things that add up to create
that mindset. Most of the times African
brands struggle with
that kind of approach because you assume
that because I'm from Africa because I'm
from Rwanda and because I've done it. So
give me the space and allow it to go
even when the consumer in their minds is
like he's evaluating you and comparing
it to his experience that he just had
when he entered a Louis Vuitton store.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So it's a it's a good
point that you have made and at the back
of it is also to keep in mind that at
that point in time the responsibility is
on you to say you know the journey you
know what you're doing you have to carry
the customer along.
>> Exactly that journey you know it's it's
very insightful. Thank you. Thank you
for that. Um we will shift gears a
little bit in this conversation since
where we've gotten to to talk a lot more
about what what does it say in terms of
our retail systems and I've touched on
it I think my last uh comment uh that
sometimes it becomes easier to be able
to assess a brand that is next door uh
that is uh from Europe or let me put it
differently sometimes it's a lot easier
let's say house of tio is doing very
well in Rwanda
as somebody sitting in Zambia or Congo
which is like less than 2,000 or not
even 2 500 km or 800 km away the person
will struggle to access your products
but then somebody sitting in London or
New York will have easy access to want
to buy a house of tio what does it say
about our retail systems on the
continent and for you what has been your
experience in terms of trying to build a
um build house of tao and scaling it
>> w that's And that's been a nightmare. I
I always I've always told people that
people close to me that my the first
African fashion billionaire is not
they're not going to have the best
designs, but they're going to have the
best business model because
that is such a major pain point. Um and
and so I've talked to many retailers
um over the years and
if if you if if if I if I gather that
they don't understand that issue and
they don't have a plan on how they're
going to to tackle that, I say you're
the same as me, you know, so I would
rather just keep on retailing direct. Um
and uh
I think that in terms of retail there
there's there's so many elements to it.
There's uh there's a logistics, there's
payments and a lot of those things are a
lot bigger than than us as individual
brand. Um,
every fashion designer that is able to
to to sell international,
they probably have their own combination
of factors that they are um using to
make it work. And um,
within Africa, it's just always thought
like there's a lot of risk and we
already have tiny margin. So, you don't
want to add to that risk. you know, it
might be risk in terms of currency
uh fluctuations.
It's it's also about um
access. So,
you know, you're looking at riskreward
for everything. If I fly to London, you know,
know,
the the flight is probably cheaper than
to many parts of Africa.
>> Yeah. Probably cheaper than flying to, I
don't know, Sineagal.
>> Yeah, exactly. the car.
>> The car is in or Legos. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And
>> And
there's no guarantee I'm going to make
sales, but they go to to to Europe,
London. So, that that has existed, but
it it's um also
I don't believe it's entirely true. Now,
Now,
when there's more information available,
people will make different decisions. I
have heard of brands that do pop-ups
from in Brazil, Juba, and whatever, and
they they're not interested about
chasing money in America. So,
So,
I think information will continue to
change things. People building
infrastructure will change things. Governments
Governments
um easing tariffs on on certain um you
know, certain goods will will change
things. But it's a process and I and I
think and I'm sure many designers out
there are a bit impatient like me. While
other people are building these systems,
I am just I'm trying to find
alternatives, shortcuts in the interim
because I'm not going to build a whole
payment system yet. But I don't be
surprised if a if someone in retail ends
up building a totally different solution
because that fixes those problems. Yeah,
>> I think the point that you've touched on
on business model is is interesting to
note because it's one of the things that
we tend to also fall in especially as Africans
Africans
uh to not think about the business model
in relation to what we are dealing with
but you think of it purely in terms of
okay it's fashion business this how it's
done in Italy so you assume that that's
the playbook that's going to work
without taking into consideration the
business side of things and how it will
apply when you are trying to build
something in that same industry but in
Africa or in a particular country. So
it's it's interesting to hear that. But
still on the global fashion industry,
when you go out there, do you think or
let me put it differently, what is the
biggest misconception
the global fashion industry has about
for I remember I did an interview with
Huffington Post uh
maybe 2020 2014 and
and
I basically said, "Stop calling African
fashion tribal."
>> And the comments, that was like the last
time I looked at comments. They were
people were angry um about that. Um
really angry cuz it it was actually was
part of a long interview, but it became
the the headline.
>> Can you repeat that again so they come
back and add comments to this interview?
I think now I think now the the the
world has evolved a lot more but re
reading that interview I mean I was a
bit nervous after that piece came out um
but reading it again now I'm really
proud of what I said um because I felt
it was intellectually lazy. How can you
have so many words to describe fashion
from all over the world? But then for
Africa it's like tribal tribal black and
white print tribal blue and yellow dress
tribal you know and and at that time I
was getting first I I was trying to
explain to to you know in that that
phase of my life I was trying to explain
to to people that you can wear you're
wearing a white shirt you know there's
no print whatsoever but that that is
still African fashion If clothes are
made maybe just for particular body
types that are predominant on the
continent that is African fashion. But
at that time especially
the view was African fashion needs
print. African fashion means loud
colors. African fashion cannot be
subtle, you know. It it it can't uh it
can't be, you know, even elegant, you
know. And um so I think that that's I
think it still exists the the the misinter
misinter
you know we've had people come to the
store and like you show them something
and they really like a shirt and they're
like no but I need something more
African you know I need to show them
that I got a shirt from Rwanda and I was
just like
there different ways of doing this you
know and but it's an education
as I said people are conditioned over
time. So rather than simply getting
frustrated by by that, I have to see how
do I also condition people to see things
that see different and conversations
like this help that because I know that
there's going to be some people who sit
down and watch this who have never
really thought about it that they're
seeing every where African fashion is
described they're seeing tribal. they
didn't realize, you know, and and and so
when I do realize certain things and I
take time to think about it and take
time to test and see, um, I make it my
responsibility to to to talk about it.
No, but I think it's important to
actually talk about it and talk about it
a lot more because in our experience
with Afro quality like in the initial
stages when we started our pilots, we'll
bring products and sometimes I remember
one time when we opened the store in
Ara, we had some Vivo products and then
a lady looks at it like are you sure
this is made in Africa? Because
>> like and then she's looking at it like
she's expecting to again see the
stereotypical okay tribal signs or it
has to have a bit of chiten in here.
before we said look Africa is huge.
Africa is enormous and the tastes are
varied. You don't always want to wear
it. You think, you know, it's so I think
it's it's good. But what I'm taking out
of it is that
>> the conditioning has been so long. We
have to stay at it long enough to also
recondition our own people first to also
be able to pivot from it. So that if you
have a relative or somebody you want to
come from wherever in the world to come
home to buy stuff, you should be
comfortable to say yes, you can buy
things. You can buy the wax prints and
everything, but you should be able to
buy a running shoe. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And say it's an African brand and it's
African fashion. Buy a normal shoe. It
doesn't have to be a shoe that has some
chit somewhere inside. So that that's
the only way you can be proud of
something that is made from the
continent. You buy a watch from the
continent believing that yes, it looks
as good as a Gucci watch or as some
other brand, but it's an African brand.
You know, it's a mindset shift.
>> Yes. that that that that that will help. Um
Um
we talked about the business model
earlier on and most of our fashion
houses and fashion businesses tend to be
very artisal and small scale at best
medium scale.
Scaling handcrafted production of course
is very difficult. Should I say
notoriously difficult?
>> What keeps you awake at night? balancing
the craft and knowing what's possible
for you as House of Tou.
>> I think that's that's the phase that I I
spend a lot of time dealing with that
right now. Um often we have to we have
to block off custom orders for a couple
of weeks at a time to be able to work on
new pieces, new stock. And I we will
make them knowing that people are not
going to purchase them immediately.
we're going to have to get them into the
store, try them on, see a new style, and
then sometimes we have to discontinue
popular styles. So, it's like saying I
like I'm not going to make money, but we
have to do it so that people can try new
things and so we can introduce new
things into the market. Now
we I I it it always feels like a chicken
and the egg thing. Um where to to to
increase our production
um we have to know where we're going to sell
sell
and uh to to to to be to to even to
increase our production, we have to have
new suppliers that can that can supply
us in large quantities.
And um at the same time we have to as we
try to transition to do bigger quantities
quantities
we people need to walk into our store
and be able to say oh can I order this
shirt but can I have this detail here?
Um so we're sort of in that transition
but for us to continue to grow and for
us to to make money we have to do more
mass production.
The hope is that we find experienced
production partners who can um assist us
with this transition. Uh because it's a
whole different ball game. It's not as
easy as adding 10 more tailor, 15 more
tailor. There are systems, there's new
technology that's coming out uh frequently
frequently
and there's a lot of training that's
involved. Um yeah. So from what you're
saying because it brings me to mind the
idea of having a system to scale up
production beyond it being handcrafted
but to be able to still maintain that
level of detail and authenticity to it
and uh so it comes to basically like
production having bigger production
scale. Now, how do you juxtapose that
with the trend that is happening in the
world today where there's a lot of
conversations around slow fashion
because the industrialization of fashion
has become so huge and there's so much
waste and there's that seeming push for
Africa to go the slow fashion route.
What's your view on that?
>> I think that um
I mean I have I have a couple of views
on that. I think that
when you do talk about slow fashion,
it's an important element of it is is is
the business model as well.
So um and the supply chain. So slow
fashion might not be in the actual
making but maybe the textile takes
months to put together
>> to get one. Yeah.
>> Yeah. But then
if as a brand you've made the decision
to go down that path, you have to be so
strict about the storytelling. you have
to be so strict about communicating
why that is valuable
and and I think that sometimes it's a
responsibility that people overlook and
why maybe some of these slow fashion brands
brands
you know start strong and fizzle out.
So, it's um it's it's a complex it's a
complex thing and a whole and and I
think that it's something that I'm I'm I
continue to develop my views and I and I
expose myself to to um to so many
production spaces, cultures. I look at
India a lot. They have so many elements
of slow fashion whether it's bead work,
hand embroidery
but I but what I love to see um
especially when I've looked at artisans
in India is
that beadwork embroidery
becomes it's it's almost like an
applique becomes part of a garment that
is made maybe a bit faster. So that's
>> it's like a bit of a merger. A merge
between the first fashion
infrastructure. It was a slow fashion at
seasonal stuff.
>> Exactly. And and and uh
and I think that I those that's actually
that's one country that I've been
looking at quite a bit. Um I I I'm I
look at okay what artisal work is going
on and how have they um
first of all how do they keep it alive?
How do they keep these skills within their
their
>> how do they make the business also make sense?
sense? >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> You know so maybe it will mean that we
are part of something else or we are
part we are creating a piece that is
part of a bigger puzzle. Um, in terms of
if you're looking at sustainability,
maybe um,
if you if you have a shirt and the
textile takes, I don't know, maybe 3
months to to to maybe it makes more
sense to sell rugs, you know. So I I
still think that
without having clarity on the business
model or different things you can do um
to to keep the business running.
It's it's a challenge. It's a challenge.
You know talking about the challenges of
the business model. What for you is the
hardest business lesson you've learned
in the last decade?
It's been patience.
>> Patience has been the hardest lesson.
>> Tell us more.
>> Patience in everything. Um when I have
an idea and then I'm like okay I want to
implement this and then so many of my
raw materials were not available in
Kgali. So I have a cous then I'm like
okay if I can't find this sort of buckle
can I have it made then I now have to go
and sit with someone who deals with
metals for a whole two weeks to get one
component for something that I had an
idea about and then if I want a new
textile I talk to to manufacturers and
okay um you need to do uh you need a
minimum quantity of of let's say 100
mters and it's going to take uh 3 months
to fulfill your order. So you get
excited by the by the potential, you get
excited by the idea, then realize you
have to wait four to 5 months hikaboo
sample. Um so patience was was was
difficult for me and so I always feel
like I have 20 tabs open and uh I start one
one
let that let that process burn in
>> then I go to the next one. So patience
has been uh in in all aspects of the
business you know whether it's you know
at the store implementation of certain
ideas concepts
um training you know now I I have to
have the foresight that if I want a
tailor to be doing something really well
I have to look at my needs in two years
and say let me bring in a tailor now who
will probably start on the ironing and
then every couple weeks you give him
time on the machine then he eventually
becomes a tailor of me you know but in
so many aspects of the business I can't
go out and and get the finished product
of a component that I need to to uh to
fulfill what the end goal is. So, I've
I've had to learn to be patient,
>> patience, patience, patience. And I
don't know, I think the African fashion
industry has been patient enough, but if
you look at what's happening now, there
seems to be a lot of I wouldn't say
obsession, but a lot of excitement and
interest in African fashion. Do you
think or do you see it as a trend
or do you think that it's moving and
helping to create a proper industry so
we can actually talk about African
fashion as a business and as an industry
outside of it being like a art a
seasonal holiday something that you buy
to just show off to your friends?
think that the interest has sort of been
building. Um, but I do feel like there
elements of I guess trend a trend like
you know when you're looking at the
proliferation of of African art and
fashion and music cuisine into the
global stage um I think the first
versions of it were taken by the
diaspora you know um and uh I think I
would credit Nigerian diaspora for
taking so much from the continent into
the rest
>> most remote parts of the world.
>> Please don't add the Ghanaian Ghanaians
as well.
>> No, definely definitely Ghana. But I I
feel like so many so many uh Africa. But
I remember the first time I heard Afro
beats in in in London. I was just like,
"Wo, this people are playing these songs here."
here." >> Traveling.
>> Traveling.
>> Yeah. This was like this was sort of
when House of Tire was emerging. So um
so that's part of the reason
I feel that adopt this
>> no but people started to adopt >> okay
>> okay
>> um and and pe and pick interest in our
brand because they started to see they
started to hear African music in clubs
restaurants started you know they
started see see more African restaurants
they started to see more Africans on
their screens you know and and then
naturally people are looking for fashion
So timing was a big part of my journey
and my story. And uh but in order for us
to push past just like uh you know
trends or flavor of the month that that
type of vibe, we have to actually build
industry. We have to build ecosystems.
Um we have to uh strengthen institutions.
institutions.
uh because
you know if if you have a handful of
African brands becoming really strong
over the next uh five to 10 years
you're going to have the money coming
from the west from America from Europe
and they're like you know I can I can
purchase an African brand for2
million and $3 million whereas the a
brand of equivalence
status in an Italy or Paris or wherever
they're going to spend more tens or
maybe even hundreds of million. So it's
very important for us to to build
ecosystem and and when I talk about that
I'm talking about from the textile
um to uh the the actual workmanship
uh the whole supply chain retail
footprint all those things so that by
the time I guess people start trying to
to inject money or or purchase
uh brands or equity
we have we've created brands of of
substantial value which are well integrated.
integrated. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly. Wow.
Wow. So
So
from everything that you're saying I can
see clearly the impacts of other
variables that tends to cross over and
more or less seem to push or create
traction for certain industries. And for
the fashion industry, it's quite clear
that there was a little bit of a push
that it received from the music industry
which sort of made people want to assert
themselves. But today when I look at how
big Afro beats has become, I question
myself beyond the music, have we built
enough commercial assets as a continent
to be able to
benefit or to leverage off the music and
the equity of the music. Where you from
where you stand, what assessment? I I
don't think we've done enough, but I
think that uh I think that not enough
people saw the music as an opportunity,
as the gateway, but um one of my
favorite um
documentaries is uh The Turning of
America. And um it's it's it talks about
how hip hop put Obama into the White
House. So it says we're going to take
you from 15 Cedric Avenue where known as
the birthplace of hip hop in in New York
to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, the White
House. Now, what I loved about um it was
like a VH1 maybe four or five part
documentary is they start from the first
Jamaican DJs that went to New York,
started uh scratching and doing all
these things and they keep showing at
every stage how um how hip-hop got into
the mainstream.
And in the '9s, you had so many
different ads had people rapping,
whether it's cereal, whether it's it's a
restaurant, it's so many different
things. But the fact that the ad has
rapping in it shows how hip-hop was was
sort of making its way through um the
American culture. And eventually you had
hip-hop culture u which you know Obama
at some point leading up to he embraced
it. He was you know braggadocious good
with words. He he he dropped a few lines
from from hip-hop songs in during his
campaign. And
when I I watched that documentary and I
watched versions of it religious. So
whenever I look at Afro beats, I look at hip-hop.
hip-hop.
How did hip-hop become mainstream?
>> How? Because it was it was a small it
was small subculture. It
>> was a fringe subculture underground music.
music.
>> Exactly. But and and when it became mainstream,
mainstream,
it had its own language. It had its own
dress code. And the moment I started to
hear cuz I'll never uh you know I
remember the early days you you listen
to I mean I always start with like two fac
you know huge but then when I was
starting how to tie it was more the
video in his early days and I was like
this is the time because the more that
um uh we hear their music
firstly on radio And you're not how many
people have requested for it to to to drop.
drop.
>> Then you go out and they're not saving
it for the first two hours of the night.
They're playing the songs that peak out.
And I remember the times I would be
standing in a club and I'm just like,
"Wait, is that is that whiskey? They're
here. Is that whiskey?" You know, and
then you you're looking at people this
you would always see the Africans get
excited and they're jamming, you know,
Caribbeans as well. And then you start
seeing uh Europeans, Americans,
Caucasian Americans, and you're like,
you know what,
the next things they're going to look for
for
beyond the music is the culture, the fashion,
fashion,
>> the culture, the fashion. And so it's a gateway.
gateway.
>> So I I think from what you've said, and
I have my own experience as well, I can
see clearly that that represents an
opportunity. I'm not so sure if the
conversations have been had enough for
us to begin to look at the business
aspect of it to be able to bring the
culture as a property full circle so
that the music is there. The movies was
a bit of a Lollywood came through was
Gollywood a few movies here and there
and then things seem to have slowed down
but then the fashion space is a place
that I think can also be really pushed
in my mind. You would it would be
amazing to get to a point where today if
you go to every major African city not
even any major city in the world today
you would find a club a nightclub that's
like an African nightclub
>> literally I've tested it in sometimes it
amazed me between an African restaurant and African nightclub in almost every
and African nightclub in almost every major city you would find one which is
major city you would find one which is great but I have to bring it full circle
great but I have to bring it full circle at least in the fashion space hopefully
at least in the fashion space hopefully we would see house of tao
we would see house of tao >> I will maybe work together with for
>> I will maybe work together with for quality.
quality. >> Yeah, definitely. I I think that um I
>> Yeah, definitely. I I think that um I think one of the the the cuz I tried to
think one of the the the cuz I tried to look at what is feasible, what isn't now
look at what is feasible, what isn't now um one reason I was also I've been drawn
um one reason I was also I've been drawn to accessories. I was drawn to
to accessories. I was drawn to accessories when I started cuz that was
accessories when I started cuz that was an easier access point. But I am I am
an easier access point. But I am I am looking deeply into accessories once
looking deeply into accessories once again.
again. Now when you look at clothing, if
Now when you look at clothing, if One one really good thing that that many
One one really good thing that that many brands I guess the industry as a whole
brands I guess the industry as a whole in in Europe, in America, in uh in
in in Europe, in America, in uh in England that they do is their sizing.
England that they do is their sizing. So if I'm experiencing a brand I've
So if I'm experiencing a brand I've never experienced before, if you tell me
never experienced before, if you tell me it's a UK 12, it's a UK 42, it's, you
it's a UK 12, it's a UK 42, it's, you know, or it's a EU European sizing, I'm
know, or it's a EU European sizing, I'm I'm more willing to experience. I'm
I'm more willing to experience. I'm moving into experience because I know I
moving into experience because I know I know what I'm get. I know what to expect
know what I'm get. I know what to expect in terms of sizing. Um, design might not
in terms of sizing. Um, design might not be what I'm looking for, but in in uh
be what I'm looking for, but in in uh when you when you're looking at African
when you when you're looking at African fashion,
fashion, uh there's always question marks because
uh there's always question marks because there's no
there's no >> standardized
>> standardized >> standardized u
>> standardized u standardized sizing on the continent.
standardized sizing on the continent. So, um, that's why in-person pop-ups
So, um, that's why in-person pop-ups have been very important for for me and
have been very important for for me and for House of Tire because people need to
for House of Tire because people need to feel and try and try on these garments
feel and try and try on these garments that will that will those will be the
that will that will those will be the same people who say, "Oh, House of
same people who say, "Oh, House of Tire's medium is like like this when
Tire's medium is like like this when they're telling their friends." But it
they're telling their friends." But it is so difficult to to look at something
is so difficult to to look at something online
online um especially clothing and say I know
um especially clothing and say I know how this will fit and if some of the
how this will fit and if some of the shirts you know some of the shirts are a
shirts you know some of the shirts are a bit longer someone can see it in the
bit longer someone can see it in the image but they're not sure how how it
image but they're not sure how how it will fit or work for them. You know, one
will fit or work for them. You know, one thing you said when we talked about the
thing you said when we talked about the music, and it got me thinking is how
music, and it got me thinking is how Africans embraced the music and Africans
Africans embraced the music and Africans in the diaspora embrace the music. And
in the diaspora embrace the music. And I'm wondering what it would take to have
I'm wondering what it would take to have a lot more Africans, let's say, embrace
a lot more Africans, let's say, embrace the fashion so that we can do with the
the fashion so that we can do with the music, uh, we can do with fashion the
music, uh, we can do with fashion the same thing we've done with music. What
same thing we've done with music. What do you think has to change? Is it the
do you think has to change? Is it the mindset that has to change? Is it
mindset that has to change? Is it infrastructure? Is it policy?
Policy is an interesting one. Um I would say first and foremost you have to
say first and foremost you have to create
create as a fashion designer I now if if people
as a fashion designer I now if if people are not buying my products I have to
are not buying my products I have to create the occasion for them to wear my
create the occasion for them to wear my products. People have to see clothing in
products. People have to see clothing in movements. They need to see it in life
movements. They need to see it in life you know. So you have to create the
you know. So you have to create the context. Some people are, you know, if
context. Some people are, you know, if someone is wearing um, you know,
someone is wearing um, you know, standard suits to work every day in
standard suits to work every day in somewhere in London or, you know, maybe
somewhere in London or, you know, maybe in New York, then then they, you know,
in New York, then then they, you know, they have this shirt that they love, but
they have this shirt that they love, but sometimes, especially if you're not a
sometimes, especially if you're not a bold fashion, fashionista, whatever,
bold fashion, fashionista, whatever, >> they're waiting for the context and
>> they're waiting for the context and location.
location. >> Yes. they're waiting for the context to
>> Yes. they're waiting for the context to wear it. Someone going to invite me to a
wear it. Someone going to invite me to a dinner, whatever. So, so I think that uh
dinner, whatever. So, so I think that uh we also have to create the context for
we also have to create the context for people to to wear these items and
people to to wear these items and celebrate them. You do you it's
celebrate them. You do you it's difficult to to
difficult to to you know you for the masses
you know you for the masses to to just adopt this without
to to just adopt this without understanding you know where and when I
understanding you know where and when I would wear these pieces. Now when you
would wear these pieces. Now when you talk about policy
talk about policy initially I would say no.
initially I would say no. However
However um I like I love reading about what
um I like I love reading about what restaurants and you know cuisine cuz I
restaurants and you know cuisine cuz I feel it's closely linked to fashion. Now
feel it's closely linked to fashion. Now when I read about what uh the the the
when I read about what uh the the the what Thailand did
what Thailand did um to to make their more to basic they
um to to make their more to basic they called it I think um
called it I think um uh I think it's like culinary diplomacy
uh I think it's like culinary diplomacy of sorts something along those lines.
of sorts something along those lines. >> I think of it.
>> I think of it. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So I wondered
>> So I wondered you know Thai restaurants are quite
you know Thai restaurants are quite prominent around the world everywhere.
prominent around the world everywhere. you know, and I thought that was just
you know, and I thought that was just immigrants going and and setting up
immigrants going and and setting up these restaurants. I thought that that's
these restaurants. I thought that that's that's what happened.
that's what happened. But they actually created dishes
But they actually created dishes that would that could travel around the
that would that could travel around the world. Maybe in some situations they
world. Maybe in some situations they tone down the spice level and uh and and
tone down the spice level and uh and and they use those dishes. You know, they
they use those dishes. You know, they created a standard a standard for for
created a standard a standard for for Thai restaurants and they insisted on
Thai restaurants and they insisted on many of the Thai restaurants to have
many of the Thai restaurants to have chefs and cooks who were Thai or trained
chefs and cooks who were Thai or trained in Thailand at least when these
in Thailand at least when these restaurants are setting up
restaurants are setting up >> who've been exported.
>> who've been exported. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And that is policy.
And that is policy. So we if you know and I read this story
So we if you know and I read this story maybe like a year or two ago. So my
maybe like a year or two ago. So my whole life before that I was just
whole life before that I was just enjoying Thai food in different places
enjoying Thai food in different places and thinking oh an immigrant came here
and thinking oh an immigrant came here to do something else ended up cooking.
to do something else ended up cooking. No that was by design. That was by
No that was by design. That was by design. And in those Thai restaurants,
design. And in those Thai restaurants, you look at the ingredients they're
you look at the ingredients they're using, um, the spices that they're
using, um, the spices that they're using, the flavorings, and all those
using, the flavorings, and all those stuff they're using, they they're made
stuff they're using, they they're made in Thailand. So you have whether it's
in Thailand. So you have whether it's their chilies, their soy sauce or fish
their chilies, their soy sauce or fish sauce or all these things now have a
sauce or all these things now have a ready market all over the world because
ready market all over the world because of that intentional policy. So that's
of that intentional policy. So that's why I say policy is is a factor and it
why I say policy is is a factor and it became a factor for me just from
became a factor for me just from watching what happened with with Thai
watching what happened with with Thai food globally.
food globally. amazing connection and I can actually
amazing connection and I can actually see it that
see it that in the fashion space is something that
in the fashion space is something that can be also pursued very strongly
can be also pursued very strongly because there are certain motives and
because there are certain motives and certain
certain design elements that are traditionally
design elements that are traditionally and authentically African and even if
and authentically African and even if when you come on the continent there are
when you come on the continent there are certain design elements and design
certain design elements and design motives that when you see you would know
motives that when you see you would know this is from Kenya, this is from Zambia,
this is from Kenya, this is from Zambia, this is from Rwanda, this is from South
this is from Rwanda, this is from South Sudan, this is from Ghana Like there are
Sudan, this is from Ghana Like there are certain things you see the k you know
certain things you see the k you know this is from uh Ghana you see the imigu
this is from uh Ghana you see the imigu >> you see that you know this one Rwanda
>> you see that you know this one Rwanda >> you see uh I can't remember the name for
>> you see uh I can't remember the name for the one in South but they have all these
the one in South but they have all these motives and then the southern Africa
motives and then the southern Africa there's some that you see okay this one
there's some that you see okay this one definitely it's from Zuland
definitely it's from Zuland >> you know so the there should be a way to
>> you know so the there should be a way to be able to use these ingredients maybe
be able to use these ingredients maybe the downside or the difficulty with it
the downside or the difficulty with it is that because these
is that because these artistic expressions. So, it's very easy
artistic expressions. So, it's very easy for somebody to just go and make
for somebody to just go and make knockoff versions of it and then go and
knockoff versions of it and then go and sell it in Europe and and cream the
sell it in Europe and and cream the market. But it will be interesting to
market. But it will be interesting to have some policy makers explore how they
have some policy makers explore how they can build some sort of a fashion
can build some sort of a fashion diplomacy strategy for Africa.
diplomacy strategy for Africa. >> Yeah. No, definitely it starts it starts
>> Yeah. No, definitely it starts it starts by looking what's what are ambassadors
by looking what's what are ambassadors wearing.
wearing. >> Wow. Okay. It could it could be as
>> Wow. Okay. It could it could be as simple as that. What are they wearing?
simple as that. What are they wearing? What are they wearing when they go and
What are they wearing when they go and meet different people? What gifts are
meet different people? What gifts are they giving?
they giving? You know, if you think about how many
You know, if you think about how many gifts the average ambassador will give
gifts the average ambassador will give throughout a year,
throughout a year, >> what are the gifts that they are giving,
>> what are the gifts that they are giving, you know, so so th those all provide
you know, so so th those all provide opportunities
opportunities and and I think that um everyone
and and I think that um everyone involved needs to to look at the bigger
involved needs to to look at the bigger picture because it's it's not it might
picture because it's it's not it might not pay next week, not next month. You
not pay next week, not next month. You can't wake up and just put these things
can't wake up and just put these things in a microwave and assume we're going to
in a microwave and assume we're going to see results immediately. It's built up
see results immediately. It's built up over time. And uh sorry, the last thing
over time. And uh sorry, the last thing with policy that um you know is
with policy that um you know is protection. You've talked about um
protection. You've talked about um elements that we we can distinctively
elements that we we can distinctively know that they're from different parts
know that they're from different parts of the world. But if you see how you
of the world. But if you see how you know the French protect champagne,
know the French protect champagne, they're like, "Listen, you're you can
they're like, "Listen, you're you can call your sparkling wine. I don't care
call your sparkling wine. I don't care what else you're going to call it.
what else you're going to call it. >> Just don't use the
>> Just don't use the >> is not champagne.
>> is not champagne. >> If it didn't come from this part of our
>> If it didn't come from this part of our country, it is not champagne,
country, it is not champagne, >> you know. So, we have to fight for what
>> you know. So, we have to fight for what is ours.
is ours. >> Well, the IP around some of these
>> Well, the IP around some of these >> exactly because that's where we start to
>> exactly because that's where we start to create um value.
create um value. You know the story you were saying about
You know the story you were saying about what the ambassadors could do reminds me
what the ambassadors could do reminds me a couple of years ago actually not a
a couple of years ago actually not a couple almost 20 years ago we had a
couple almost 20 years ago we had a president in Ghana back in the days when
president in Ghana back in the days when we were growing up
we were growing up >> where they instituted on Fridays that
>> where they instituted on Fridays that everybody should wear African prints so
everybody should wear African prints so it became a thing we had something
it became a thing we had something called Friday wear
called Friday wear >> and you can imagine what it did for the
>> and you can imagine what it did for the local fashion industry but along the
local fashion industry but along the line I don't know what happened it
line I don't know what happened it seemed to have died down but that's
seemed to have died down but that's maybe if somebody a historian goes to
maybe if somebody a historian goes to evaluate the trend in terms of the
evaluate the trend in terms of the consumption patterns of Ghanaians
consumption patterns of Ghanaians participating or patronizing African
participating or patronizing African brands that could be an inflection point
brands that could be an inflection point where the whole market probably went up
where the whole market probably went up and then maybe it came down but it
and then maybe it came down but it wouldn't come down back to where it used
wouldn't come down back to where it used to be. So you'd see some growth.
to be. So you'd see some growth. >> So if from the policy side there are
>> So if from the policy side there are such interventions I can see clearly how
such interventions I can see clearly how it can also uh help a lot in the fashion
it can also uh help a lot in the fashion industry. Um
industry. Um I wanted to ask a question about how the
I wanted to ask a question about how the fashion
fashion uh African fashion can move beyond
uh African fashion can move beyond clothing to become a cultural movement.
clothing to become a cultural movement. But I think our earlier conversation has
But I think our earlier conversation has captured it well between connecting the
captured it well between connecting the dots uh from um uh from music and how
dots uh from um uh from music and how the influences are and how that movement
the influences are and how that movement is going and then we touched a little
is going and then we touched a little bit on the food but that's an aspect
bit on the food but that's an aspect that I know you're not a chef but from a
that I know you're not a chef but from a creative point of view what
creative point of view what collaborations or opportunities exist if
collaborations or opportunities exist if we're able to for instance export our
we're able to for instance export our food and how can that also help the
food and how can that also help the fashion industry.
I I I I feel that um so when I I spent a lot of time thinking
so when I I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wanted House of Tire to be
about what I wanted House of Tire to be over at the inception
over at the inception and
and I thought about
I thought about experiences that that gave me a positive
experiences that that gave me a positive impact of or positive reflection of a
impact of or positive reflection of a different culture. And it was I was
different culture. And it was I was looking at things that were easy access
looking at things that were easy access like music, food.
like music, food. Um those are those those
Um those are those those are those two I will even call them
are those two I will even call them arts. There's two arts.
arts. There's two arts. >> Yeah. Perform hooks.
>> Yeah. Perform hooks. >> Yes, they're hooks. And I will want to
>> Yes, they're hooks. And I will want to learn more. You know, I so it's an
learn more. You know, I so it's an entryway. I look at the art as an
entryway. I look at the art as an entryway. And I knew that what I wanted
entryway. And I knew that what I wanted to achieve can only be done with the
to achieve can only be done with the arts because intellectual debate and GDP
arts because intellectual debate and GDP this GDP that even intellectual people
this GDP that even intellectual people get bored of that at some point you know
get bored of that at some point you know but the arts it's about feeling
but the arts it's about feeling >> you know it's about like what uh made
>> you know it's about like what uh made you feel a particular way. I've enjoyed
you feel a particular way. I've enjoyed songs where I don't know what they say
songs where I don't know what they say mean, but the song made me feel a
mean, but the song made me feel a particular way. And um so I do feel like
particular way. And um so I do feel like um when I look at cuisine, when I look
um when I look at cuisine, when I look at film, when I look at uh at um music,
at film, when I look at uh at um music, these are
these are these are entry points. Um and as a
these are entry points. Um and as a African fashion designer,
African fashion designer, it's also on me to identify and see
it's also on me to identify and see who has made a breakthrough,
who has made a breakthrough, you know, how can we work together
you know, how can we work together or when someone comes to my popup in
or when someone comes to my popup in London or New York, how do we give them
London or New York, how do we give them a
a a fuller experience,
a fuller experience, >> authentically African experience,
>> authentically African experience, >> you know, maybe maybe they smell random
>> you know, maybe maybe they smell random coffee, you know, when music is being
coffee, you know, when music is being played, you know, so that when they
played, you know, so that when they smell coffee again, they're going to
smell coffee again, they're going to remember us, you know, you I think that
remember us, you know, you I think that there ways of uh of of creating a richer
there ways of uh of of creating a richer experience for people who who come into
experience for people who who come into your space to experience the brand, but
your space to experience the brand, but also um we have to find ways of reaching
also um we have to find ways of reaching out to to different people and pulling
out to to different people and pulling them into our world.
them into our world. You talked about the conversations
You talked about the conversations around GDP and the hard numbers getting
around GDP and the hard numbers getting boring at some point and but then there
boring at some point and but then there seems to be a disconnect. Uh do you
seems to be a disconnect. Uh do you think African governments take creative
think African governments take creative industries seriously enough as engines
industries seriously enough as engines of growth and job creation uh
of growth and job creation uh justaposing that with the obsession with
justaposing that with the obsession with all the hard economic numbers when our
all the hard economic numbers when our politicians and economic leaders tend to
politicians and economic leaders tend to talk? I mean I can't remember what year
talk? I mean I can't remember what year it was but uh South Africa economy was
it was but uh South Africa economy was was bigger than Nigeria for a long time.
was bigger than Nigeria for a long time. Then there was like one weekend where
Then there was like one weekend where they just added like Nollywood and a few
they just added like Nollywood and a few other industries and in one weekend
other industries and in one weekend because of the way they they they
because of the way they they they counted it was they calculated it.
counted it was they calculated it. Nigeria surpassed uh South Africa and I
Nigeria surpassed uh South Africa and I I remember that blowing my mind when I
I remember that blowing my mind when I was reading the stories about it. Uh I
was reading the stories about it. Uh I think that
think that I think that it's important uh for the
I think that it's important uh for the data to sort of exist. Um and uh there
data to sort of exist. Um and uh there are some decisions that are being made
are some decisions that are being made because they're looking at okay how many
because they're looking at okay how many jobs exist in the creative industry
jobs exist in the creative industry right now versus maybe agriculture or
right now versus maybe agriculture or versus um steel or construction, you
versus um steel or construction, you know, and if I plucked someone from a
know, and if I plucked someone from a from a vocational school or even just
from a vocational school or even just someone off the street, how quickly can
someone off the street, how quickly can they be earning from a particular
they be earning from a particular industry. So I do believe that uh
industry. So I do believe that uh numbers are important, information is
numbers are important, information is important and uh it's it's a
important and uh it's it's a responsibility of of of many of us
responsibility of of of many of us within the industry to
within the industry to to have as much I guess data as possible
to have as much I guess data as possible because if someone is looking at it from
because if someone is looking at it from from uh I guess from the helicopter to
from uh I guess from the helicopter to the exact place from above and you're
the exact place from above and you're glancing and our leaders have to make
glancing and our leaders have to make many different decisions
many different decisions and you're like okay we have limited
and you're like okay we have limited budget we have different things we need
budget we have different things we need to do
to do um where do we put the money and as
um where do we put the money and as people within the fashion industry
people within the fashion industry within the arts we also have to make our
within the arts we also have to make our case for ourselves we have to and then
case for ourselves we have to and then we also have to Um,
we also have to Um, you know, I think I remember from one of
you know, I think I remember from one of our early fashion weeks, we I mean,
our early fashion weeks, we I mean, you're trying to put a collection
you're trying to put a collection together, you're trying to organize a
together, you're trying to organize a fashion week, then we said, but no, we
fashion week, then we said, but no, we need like an infographic. And so, you're
need like an infographic. And so, you're trying to figure out all the
trying to figure out all the nationalities of different people who
nationalities of different people who have come to your show. And then when
have come to your show. And then when you put that information in a nice
you put that information in a nice infographic, even us who are in this
infographic, even us who are in this industry, we're like, "Oh, wow." you
industry, we're like, "Oh, wow." you know, 100 different people came, you
know, 100 different people came, you know. Um, and then when we put when we
know. Um, and then when we put when we started to count not just our employees
started to count not just our employees but supports like maybe supports maybe
but supports like maybe supports maybe the guy who does the garden once a week
the guy who does the garden once a week uh you know another person who provides
uh you know another person who provides you buttons or
you buttons or >> Exactly. when someone who does my
>> Exactly. when someone who does my deliveries. we have the same people that
deliveries. we have the same people that do our deliveries.
do our deliveries. And um I started thinking like this in
And um I started thinking like this in in 2015 when I went to Stockholm and uh
in 2015 when I went to Stockholm and uh there was so many of it was a number of
there was so many of it was a number of us from different aspects of the uh
us from different aspects of the uh different sectors of the creative sector
different sectors of the creative sector as a whole and they were telling us what
as a whole and they were telling us what they did
they did and one of the things that they did was
and one of the things that they did was um redefine what is the creative
um redefine what is the creative industry.
industry. So people who are making video games and
So people who are making video games and whatever to the music industry and
whatever to the music industry and they're selling millions of of albums,
they're selling millions of of albums, you know, the video game I think that
you know, the video game I think that time I went in about 2015, I think
time I went in about 2015, I think Minecraft had sold for like 1.5 billion,
Minecraft had sold for like 1.5 billion, Skype sold, but those are parts of their
Skype sold, but those are parts of their tech, but they're parts of the creative
tech, but they're parts of the creative industry. So at that time, I think uh
industry. So at that time, I think uh it must have been
it must have been significance. I know it was well over
significance. I know it was well over 30% of jobs in Stockholm were from the
30% of jobs in Stockholm were from the created in the creative space and
created in the creative space and that's why language and communication is
that's why language and communication is so important because if we're not doing
so important because if we're not doing that then it looks like
that then it looks like >> it's after thought.
>> it's after thought. >> Exactly. So there's so many different
>> Exactly. So there's so many different important players we need within our
important players we need within our industry and some people
industry and some people to to to to collect data to get collect
to to to to collect data to get collect data to explain what is going on on the
data to explain what is going on on the ground.
ground. You know, you said something very
You know, you said something very interesting that is shaping uh into the
interesting that is shaping uh into the next line of conversation, which is how
next line of conversation, which is how fashion businesses and creative
fashion businesses and creative industries in general collect data and
industries in general collect data and how much value we give to the numbers.
how much value we give to the numbers. Cuz most of the times people tend to do
Cuz most of the times people tend to do it for fun or for from a passion point
it for fun or for from a passion point of view and forget that at some point
of view and forget that at some point the numbers will be called in hard and
the numbers will be called in hard and they need to be able to stand up on
they need to be able to stand up on their own. Um there's a lot of ev
their own. Um there's a lot of ev evolution in the world of AI and people
evolution in the world of AI and people have talked about it from where you sit.
have talked about it from where you sit. How do you see new technologies like AI
How do you see new technologies like AI impact fashion maybe you can talk about
impact fashion maybe you can talk about it first from the point of view of data
it first from the point of view of data collection for instance and getting the
collection for instance and getting the insights that hither to we did not have
insights that hither to we did not have to even know the real size of the
to even know the real size of the creative industry.
creative industry. So, I think that um we need to to find
So, I think that um we need to to find ways to use the new technology um
ways to use the new technology um in a way that grows our businesses. Um I
in a way that grows our businesses. Um I think that we also need to to be aware
think that we also need to to be aware about who also built these products.
about who also built these products. >> Mhm. and and uh we have to be I would
>> Mhm. and and uh we have to be I would say give it cautious
say give it cautious uh because
uh because if you do build um I think what we've
if you do build um I think what we've seen a lot in uh in uh in the world in
seen a lot in uh in uh in the world in world politics today is when you're too
world politics today is when you're too reliant on a system and then people
reliant on a system and then people decide to pull the plug on it what
decide to pull the plug on it what happens to you.
happens to you. >> Yeah. So, um,
>> Yeah. So, um, those within the tech space, although,
those within the tech space, although, you know, I I try to see how to use AI
you know, I I try to see how to use AI every day to make our our work easier
every day to make our our work easier and more and and more seamless and and
and more and and more seamless and and to to serve our customers better. But I
to to serve our customers better. But I I try to to remind myself every time I
I try to to remind myself every time I get excited about a new function or
get excited about a new function or something I did a lot easier, a lot
something I did a lot easier, a lot faster,
faster, I I try to think back, you know, don't
I I try to think back, you know, don't get too excited because if if this one
get too excited because if if this one aspect of your business relies on this
aspect of your business relies on this exclusively
exclusively and there's a global blackout for 20
and there's a global blackout for 20 minutes or an hour or a week, what
minutes or an hour or a week, what happens? when they decide to change the
happens? when they decide to change the price tfold, what happens? So, I am I'm
price tfold, what happens? So, I am I'm optimistic. Um, but I also
optimistic. Um, but I also I I I remind myself to be
I I I remind myself to be >> You are cautiously optimistic.
>> You are cautiously optimistic. >> Exactly. Okay.
>> Exactly. Okay. >> I I like that. And for me, coming from a
>> I I like that. And for me, coming from a technology background, I always talk to
technology background, I always talk to people and I told them that it's
people and I told them that it's important to understand what is
important to understand what is happening. It is important to be
happening. It is important to be cautious but there are things that we
cautious but there are things that we can at our levels also maybe ask in
can at our levels also maybe ask in terms of our governments because some of
terms of our governments because some of these platforms are being developed in
these platforms are being developed in ecosystems or environments that they
ecosystems or environments that they don't answer to our local governments
don't answer to our local governments but then at the point where they have to
but then at the point where they have to do monetization one way or the other
do monetization one way or the other they would have to figure out a way of
they would have to figure out a way of collecting their money and that is where
collecting their money and that is where you can bring in some kind of control or
you can bring in some kind of control or structure because yes you want
structure because yes you want technology to fly and want it to do well
technology to fly and want it to do well but you also need some guard rails
but you also need some guard rails That's one point. But the other side of
That's one point. But the other side of it is I'm maybe maybe an optimist when
it is I'm maybe maybe an optimist when it comes to this is the fact that so
it comes to this is the fact that so long as you don't create a situation
long as you don't create a situation where you have a uniolar one powerful
where you have a uniolar one powerful entity that runs a lot of the AI systems
entity that runs a lot of the AI systems but you have a multipolar setup where
but you have a multipolar setup where there's competition
there's competition >> at least you would expect that that
>> at least you would expect that that would
would answer for the fear that somebody will
answer for the fear that somebody will wake up one day and increase the price
wake up one day and increase the price 100fold or try to shut it down and then
100fold or try to shut it down and then try to use it to you and all
try to use it to you and all that. That's really how I look at it.
that. That's really how I look at it. And this from an individual point of
And this from an individual point of view and if you look at let's say today
view and if you look at let's say today Microsoft word almost majority of the
Microsoft word almost majority of the computers in the world run on Microsoft
computers in the world run on Microsoft word it's still a computer as a
word it's still a computer as a technology and a solution that comes
technology and a solution that comes from one country and a particular
from one country and a particular company but people are dependent on it
company but people are dependent on it but we don't have that fear today of oh
but we don't have that fear today of oh I can't run my PC on word because
I can't run my PC on word because tomorrow they can wake up and increase
tomorrow they can wake up and increase the price overnight. That's how I
the price overnight. That's how I interpret these future technologies from
interpret these future technologies from a geopolitical point of view. I can see
a geopolitical point of view. I can see for instance if let's say somebody
for instance if let's say somebody decides that okay we don't like the
decides that okay we don't like the whole of Africa so then we'll shut them
whole of Africa so then we'll shut them out out of Facebook.
out out of Facebook. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> The same way today you don't have any
>> The same way today you don't have any Google or Facebook in China even Russia
Google or Facebook in China even Russia now is cut out of Swift and things like
now is cut out of Swift and things like that. So those are the scenarios that
that. So those are the scenarios that become very complicated and very
become very complicated and very complex. as a small business person. I
complex. as a small business person. I don't know if that's within my power,
don't know if that's within my power, but those are the things that as you
but those are the things that as you said, you want to be cautiously
said, you want to be cautiously optimistic because those are real
optimistic because those are real possibilities.
possibilities. >> But I like what you said about how you
>> But I like what you said about how you use AI. Uh maybe the second part of it
use AI. Uh maybe the second part of it outside of the data side is design
outside of the data side is design >> because really that's the elephant in
>> because really that's the elephant in the room. A lot of the things that we
the room. A lot of the things that we are seeing AI do today, some of them are
are seeing AI do today, some of them are marvelous.
marvelous. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> What do you think? What do you see? How
>> What do you think? What do you see? How do you see yourself use it to express
do you see yourself use it to express the craft of House of Tai going into the
the craft of House of Tai going into the future?
future? >> Um,
>> Um, it's something that I've I've I've been
it's something that I've I've I've been uh sort of quite cautious with. Um I
uh sort of quite cautious with. Um I think that
think that yeah obvious like I I test things here
yeah obvious like I I test things here and there and um I try to to make sure
and there and um I try to to make sure that
that I am I am even if I get a particular
I am I am even if I get a particular result I try to to sit and marin it and
result I try to to sit and marin it and think think a lot deeper into it. So if
think think a lot deeper into it. So if I was to give an example, um not too
I was to give an example, um not too long ago
long ago because I never I never studied fashion.
because I never I never studied fashion. >> Uh so I just continuously practice it
>> Uh so I just continuously practice it and there's some things that felt like
and there's some things that felt like intuition but they're based on knowledge
intuition but they're based on knowledge from somewhere else. And uh in this
from somewhere else. And uh in this particular instance, I was looking for
particular instance, I was looking for the right contrasts for particular
the right contrasts for particular color. I was trying to put some accents
color. I was trying to put some accents onto different clothing, but I didn't
onto different clothing, but I didn't want the I didn't want the obvious one.
want the I didn't want the obvious one. So I was like, what, you know? So I'm I
So I was like, what, you know? So I'm I was actually writing it as a sort of
was actually writing it as a sort of stream of consciousness. And it was good
stream of consciousness. And it was good to have responses as I continue to
to have responses as I continue to build. Eventually the the the the answer
build. Eventually the the the the answer was my I guess a combination but it was
was my I guess a combination but it was a process and I had to go through that
a process and I had to go through that process in in that way
process in in that way >> filtering out even the output coming
>> filtering out even the output coming from the air.
from the air. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly. >> Okay. And I was able to get um
>> Okay. And I was able to get um combinations
combinations that and accents that were sort of they
that and accents that were sort of they were based on the color wheel and like
were based on the color wheel and like opposites on the the color wheel. And so
opposites on the the color wheel. And so it was built off a rationale that many
it was built off a rationale that many different you know experienced whether
different you know experienced whether it's interior designers, fashion
it's interior designers, fashion designers use and you know different
designers use and you know different color theories and um because I never
color theories and um because I never learned that in in in school I was able
learned that in in in school I was able to to to um to learn that and learn why
to to to um to learn that and learn why my I was picking up certain uh
my I was picking up certain uh combinations And then when when I put
combinations And then when when I put the product in the store, customers look
the product in the store, customers look at it and like, I don't know why I like
at it and like, I don't know why I like this,
this, but it makes sense for me. And it was so
but it makes sense for me. And it was so interesting. I don't usually spend a lot
interesting. I don't usually spend a lot of time at the store, mostly at our
of time at the store, mostly at our production space, but it was interesting
production space, but it was interesting to see how customers interacted with
to see how customers interacted with those products. So with that experience
those products. So with that experience and this is something that you were able
and this is something that you were able to achieve using technology, do you feel
to achieve using technology, do you feel like technology can ever replicate the
like technology can ever replicate the cultural
cultural soul that is embedded in most of the
soul that is embedded in most of the African fashion and African products
African fashion and African products that we put out there
that we put out there at this stage. I know technology moves
at this stage. I know technology moves fast but at this stage I don't think um
fast but at this stage I don't think um I don't I I think because there's so
I don't I I think because there's so much context that is that the technology
much context that is that the technology might not have sort of access to
might not have sort of access to um and so
um and so you know if if for instance a customer
you know if if for instance a customer walks into my store and says oh I need
walks into my store and says oh I need something um for a funeral
something um for a funeral and and you know the AI
and and you know the AI their assumption is oh funerals is just
their assumption is oh funerals is just black but that's not the same in every
black but that's not the same in every culture it's not the same in every
culture it's not the same in every context and there are things that you
context and there are things that you know maybe because I've been serving
know maybe because I've been serving this person for for years I'll know what
this person for for years I'll know what they want you know and uh so I think
they want you know and uh so I think context is always uh key and it is
context is always uh key and it is important for myself and even the team
important for myself and even the team that I build at the the store is we
that I build at the the store is we always try to we need to try and pay
always try to we need to try and pay attention to to context.
attention to to context. >> Context.
>> Context. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> What excites you about the future of
>> What excites you about the future of creativity on the continent.
creativity on the continent. >> I think I think the thing that excites
>> I think I think the thing that excites me the most is that we're we're just
me the most is that we're we're just scratching the surface. I I don't like I
scratching the surface. I I don't like I I I don't feel like we're anywhere near
I I don't feel like we're anywhere near the peak. Um uh another thing that
the peak. Um uh another thing that excites me is uh we are beginning to
excites me is uh we are beginning to consume a lot more of our products
consume a lot more of our products and uh we are able to to now I I I
and uh we are able to to now I I I believe there there many people on the
believe there there many people on the continent building fashion businesses
continent building fashion businesses and um
and um maybe the west is an afterthought.
maybe the west is an afterthought. M you know they I remember when when I
M you know they I remember when when I was starting out and then people kept
was starting out and then people kept asking me oh what's your spring what's
asking me oh what's your spring what's your autumn winter collection is going
your autumn winter collection is going to be like I'm like we don't like we
to be like I'm like we don't like we don't have the same winters you guys
don't have the same winters you guys it's maybe at most we have sweater
it's maybe at most we have sweater dresses dresses you know wear you know
dresses dresses you know wear you know so now I'm trying to build this whole
so now I'm trying to build this whole autumn winter collection and you know at
autumn winter collection and you know at the times I was trying to say okay what
the times I was trying to say okay what would it look like then at the end of
would it look like then at the end of the day I'm like it's not my context and
the day I'm like it's not my context and I'm selling here primarily. So I think
I'm selling here primarily. So I think that we're starting to see more brands
that we're starting to see more brands that are just like
that are just like if the west likes my products they can
if the west likes my products they can come to we're not going to go and chase
come to we're not going to go and chase uh fashion weeks around the world I will
uh fashion weeks around the world I will go from Cape to Cairo to find my clients
go from Cape to Cairo to find my clients and and and I and the rest of the world
and and and I and the rest of the world will can come find me where I am. I
will can come find me where I am. I think that that's exciting. Therefore,
think that that's exciting. Therefore, if if you had to bet on an emerging
if if you had to bet on an emerging trend that would define the future of
trend that would define the future of African style in the next 10 years, what
African style in the next 10 years, what will it be?
will it be? That is um that's very challenging um
That is um that's very challenging um and something that I continue to think
and something that I continue to think about. But now we'll go back to to
about. But now we'll go back to to numbers and data and uh the youngest
numbers and data and uh the youngest continent in the world.
continent in the world. uh whatever it is, it's going to be
uh whatever it is, it's going to be driven by the youth and what the youth
driven by the youth and what the youth want to celebrate, what the youth want
want to celebrate, what the youth want to to embody.
to to embody. And uh so although I think I'm still
And uh so although I think I'm still quite young, I I'm looking at at at the
quite young, I I'm looking at at at the youth culture. I love just, you know,
youth culture. I love just, you know, coming here to Zara Courts and and
coming here to Zara Courts and and looking at kids playing basketball,
looking at kids playing basketball, watching what their style, looking at
watching what their style, looking at what they're wearing. Um, I like doing
what they're wearing. Um, I like doing this in many cities around the world,
this in many cities around the world, but I'm I'm glad that Kegali is now
but I'm I'm glad that Kegali is now having more and more centers where
having more and more centers where you're seeing
you're seeing youth
youth >> and and so I I don't know what it's
>> and and so I I don't know what it's going to be. Um but I do believe that it
going to be. Um but I do believe that it is going to be uh driven by the youth.
You've had your work on global carpets around the world. What does that
around the world. What does that visibility actually do for the business
visibility actually do for the business back on the continent? The bottom line.
back on the continent? The bottom line. This is funny because I
This is funny because I I had a few experiences over the years
I had a few experiences over the years that
that that motivated me to focus on on the
that motivated me to focus on on the business model and efficiency and
business model and efficiency and production. Uh the this was um for the
production. Uh the this was um for the for uh the first Black Panther we
for uh the first Black Panther we dressed Junior and Yongo and uh
dressed Junior and Yongo and uh once that suit went online that was the
once that suit went online that was the first time my fro my phone froze from
first time my fro my phone froze from because of Instagram
because of Instagram and uh we had people from all over the
and uh we had people from all over the world saying how can I get this exact
world saying how can I get this exact outfit I will I will send you money for
outfit I will I will send you money for it now that fabric had run out there was
it now that fabric had run out there was like no way we could produce Oh, even if
like no way we could produce Oh, even if I wanted to, we had special Black
I wanted to, we had special Black Panther elbow patches. Someone I someone
Panther elbow patches. Someone I someone said, "Can I just buy the elbow
said, "Can I just buy the elbow patches?" And I hadn't even thought that
patches?" And I hadn't even thought that I could simply sell it as a unit. And
I could simply sell it as a unit. And people were ready to throw money at us,
people were ready to throw money at us, but we couldn't. We like we could we
but we couldn't. We like we could we were so focused on creating that that
were so focused on creating that that outright. And I said, "Everyone that I
outright. And I said, "Everyone that I know
know assumes that uh now, you know, the money
assumes that uh now, you know, the money is flowing in, you know, Black Panther
is flowing in, you know, Black Panther is the biggest movie in the world. It's
is the biggest movie in the world. It's been the biggest movie for some time
been the biggest movie for some time that you're just you've made it." And I
that you're just you've made it." And I was sitting there and I was like, my
was sitting there and I was like, my bank account didn't
bank account didn't because I wasn't I wasn't prepared. And
because I wasn't I wasn't prepared. And I I kept telling myself the next time
I I kept telling myself the next time things like these happen, we have to be
things like these happen, we have to be prepared. And so I started to focus on
prepared. And so I started to focus on the on the business and and and trying
the on the business and and and trying to see how we can grow our team, how we
to see how we can grow our team, how we can increase our production, how we
can increase our production, how we could um increase our our our reach and
could um increase our our our reach and but what it did in the short term was
but what it did in the short term was credibility. I had someone who had who
credibility. I had someone who had who who visited the week before and uh at
who visited the week before and uh at that time we were doing tradition like
that time we were doing tradition like suits. Now we we we discontinued suits
suits. Now we we we discontinued suits but at that time we were and he didn't
but at that time we were and he didn't want to to pay what we were and it was
want to to pay what we were and it was it was nothing to be honest.
it was nothing to be honest. uh we had to underpric just to get
uh we had to underpric just to get people buying our products
people buying our products and he's like no no no
and he's like no no no I will I'll go and I'll get my suit
I will I'll go and I'll get my suit somewhere else. No,
somewhere else. No, the day after the suit went viral, he
the day after the suit went viral, he said, "So, I'm coming with a deposit
said, "So, I'm coming with a deposit tomorrow and I he was assuming we were
tomorrow and I he was assuming we were going to just wait for him." No, no, his
going to just wait for him." No, no, his assumption was that he talked like we
assumption was that he talked like we had agreed on the order and he's like at
had agreed on the order and he's like at that time we're accepting 50% deposit
that time we're accepting 50% deposit came with 70 and then he left it to so
came with 70 and then he left it to so immediately it was credibility and that
immediately it was credibility and that credibility was still um it's still it
credibility was still um it's still it was I would say
was I would say it was more valuable than the money at
it was more valuable than the money at that point because so many people
that point because so many people uh didn't believe that Rondon fashion
uh didn't believe that Rondon fashion could could reach those heights. And
could could reach those heights. And since then, we've had so many different
since then, we've had so many different Randon fashion designers uh reach new
Randon fashion designers uh reach new heights and it's happened consistently
heights and it's happened consistently since then. So, it was so important and
since then. So, it was so important and that credibility.
that credibility. And now, you know, before that people,
And now, you know, before that people, if I had an appointment with someone,
if I had an appointment with someone, they felt that if we said 2:00 p.m.,
they felt that if we said 2:00 p.m., they could rock up at 4:00 because
they could rock up at 4:00 because you're not you're not creative. You're
you're not you're not creative. You're not supposed to something so important.
not supposed to something so important. And and it was so frustrating because
And and it was so frustrating because I'd be sitting there in my note where
I'd be sitting there in my note where everything, you know, and so that
everything, you know, and so that credibility was so important for us and
credibility was so important for us and it was why I was willing to do that
it was why I was willing to do that suit. We emptied out our account.
suit. We emptied out our account. You know, we were using premium
You know, we were using premium materials. You know, I paid an arm and a
materials. You know, I paid an arm and a leg with the DHL. Um, we stopped all
leg with the DHL. Um, we stopped all other production and we had to do that
other production and we had to do that suit in two and a half days. So, I had
suit in two and a half days. So, I had multiple people working on it. And then
multiple people working on it. And then each one of those people, you're paying
each one of those people, you're paying them above and beyond what what they
them above and beyond what what they would usually get. So we emptied our
would usually get. So we emptied our account and not not to be paid for that
account and not not to be paid for that but because the credibility was going to
but because the credibility was going to lay the groundwork for what we want to
lay the groundwork for what we want to achieve in the future.
achieve in the future. Now looking at this kind of setup where
Now looking at this kind of setup where you have a good endorsement but then
you have a good endorsement but then from the commercial machinery that exist
from the commercial machinery that exist to drive the business you underestimated
to drive the business you underestimated uh uh
uh uh what it could look like.
what it could look like. I I I'm I'm just thinking because I've
I I I'm I'm just thinking because I've heard this from a lot of creatives. So
heard this from a lot of creatives. So it gives me the sense that we is is that
it gives me the sense that we is is that we think about the businesses but we
we think about the businesses but we don't think about them in terms of
don't think about them in terms of structurally what it takes for it to be
structurally what it takes for it to be like an LVMH or an H&M or something is
like an LVMH or an H&M or something is is there something missing in the way
is there something missing in the way creatively when we are building
creatively when we are building businesses we look at things why does
businesses we look at things why does that happen quite often and that's not
that happen quite often and that's not even your experience I'm sure when you
even your experience I'm sure when you talk to other creatives they will all
talk to other creatives they will all keep telling you the same experience I
keep telling you the same experience I think about 3 four months ago There was
think about 3 four months ago There was another African artisan that was making
another African artisan that was making I think shared butter or something and
I think shared butter or something and they got some endorsement from a big
they got some endorsement from a big media entity somewhere and they couldn't
media entity somewhere and they couldn't meet the orders. So I was like another
meet the orders. So I was like another one. What's missing in the value chain?
one. What's missing in the value chain? Uh for us as African creators I think
Uh for us as African creators I think it's because you you you
it's because you you you are building for the audience we can
are building for the audience we can see.
see. >> Okay. Um whereas uh the internet social
>> Okay. Um whereas uh the internet social media has made the world a lot bigger
media has made the world a lot bigger and it's so easy to go from zero to 100
and it's so easy to go from zero to 100 but it is dangerous when you don't have
but it is dangerous when you don't have the infrastructure or the setup cuz you
the infrastructure or the setup cuz you will sign almost any deal to try and
will sign almost any deal to try and fulfill that demand. Um and a lot of
fulfill that demand. Um and a lot of times is is it's it might not be the
times is is it's it might not be the right deal. So I think so I I I the way
right deal. So I think so I I I the way I'm building House of Tire is one eye on
I'm building House of Tire is one eye on on our immediate audience and the ones
on our immediate audience and the ones we can see and we we understand we but
we can see and we we understand we but then what would happen if if we had
then what would happen if if we had scale up significantly what would it
scale up significantly what would it look like? So it starts with the
look like? So it starts with the ideation of like what would it look like
ideation of like what would it look like and um and you know the times I'll sit
and um and you know the times I'll sit and just daydream and try to think you
and just daydream and try to think you know maybe when I'm going on a run I
know maybe when I'm going on a run I think what would it look like I think
think what would it look like I think that's the starting point then you start
that's the starting point then you start to explore and that's why it's important
to explore and that's why it's important for me to to now you know I transition
for me to to now you know I transition from um if I'm looking at where I source
from um if I'm looking at where I source my products previously you know I'm
my products previously you know I'm looking at Kegali you know, kegali is
looking at Kegali you know, kegali is small market of people who who buy my
small market of people who who buy my products. So, I have to make sure
products. So, I have to make sure there's variety all the time. So, I'm
there's variety all the time. So, I'm buying small batches like maybe 30 m 40
buying small batches like maybe 30 m 40 m of of a particular fabric so that we
m of of a particular fabric so that we make a couple of shirts and then you you
make a couple of shirts and then you you don't find them again.
don't find them again. But when you're trying to go beyond
But when you're trying to go beyond borders,
borders, that 40 m has to transition to 200 to
that 40 m has to transition to 200 to 250 to, you know, eventually to a,000.
250 to, you know, eventually to a,000. So every year I push myself. I'm like,
So every year I push myself. I'm like, okay, our button supplier,
okay, our button supplier, what is their capacity? You know, can we
what is their capacity? You know, can we start doing samples with another button
start doing samples with another button supplier who can reach a bigger
supplier who can reach a bigger capacity? My fabric suppliers are like,
capacity? My fabric suppliers are like, "Okay, what is the lead tag for for you
"Okay, what is the lead tag for for you to make more fabric for me? Can you make
to make more fabric for me? Can you make the exact grade?" You know, and so so I
the exact grade?" You know, and so so I I start by looking at the raw materials.
I start by looking at the raw materials. Then from the raw materials, I'm looking
Then from the raw materials, I'm looking at production. And I'm still looking for
at production. And I'm still looking for the right production partners to be able
the right production partners to be able to to significantly
to to significantly uh ramp up our production. Then from
uh ramp up our production. Then from that point I'll look at retail and not
that point I'll look at retail and not just retail. I mean I've had more
just retail. I mean I've had more conversations regarding retail. So I I I
conversations regarding retail. So I I I have a general idea of of the people who
have a general idea of of the people who that I could work well with and you know
that I could work well with and you know that's part of the reason we're having
that's part of the reason we're having this conversation because we were on the
this conversation because we were on the same wavelength for this these sort of
same wavelength for this these sort of discussions
discussions and but we we can't skip the product you
and but we we can't skip the product you know I can't I don't want to have just
know I can't I don't want to have just one shirt in in every step and say I
one shirt in in every step and say I have a footprint I don't
have a footprint I don't >> you know what you're saying and maybe
>> you know what you're saying and maybe this is an opportunity to make a plug
this is an opportunity to make a plug for Afro quality
for Afro quality And one of the core motivations for
And one of the core motivations for wanting to build Afroity has been what
wanting to build Afroity has been what you just said in terms of the journey
you just said in terms of the journey that we have a lot of instances where
that we have a lot of instances where African creatives or people making
African creatives or people making things because of your reality today. So
things because of your reality today. So you produce for that context. But if we
you produce for that context. But if we don't have any machinery or any setup
don't have any machinery or any setup that prepares you to be able to produce
that prepares you to be able to produce unmas then tomorrow when the day in the
unmas then tomorrow when the day in the sun comes it's like moving from zero to
sun comes it's like moving from zero to 100 and that one there's nobody even if
100 and that one there's nobody even if you are I don't know superman to be able
you are I don't know superman to be able to be able to meet that demand but then
to be able to meet that demand but then in an environment where we've created a
in an environment where we've created a machinery that allows an artisan to get
machinery that allows an artisan to get comfortable with the idea of okay now I
comfortable with the idea of okay now I can produce I used to produce 100 but
can produce I used to produce 100 but now I'm producing 200 300 because I'm
now I'm producing 200 300 because I'm distributing instead of two countries
distributing instead of two countries I'm distributing in 20 countries in
I'm distributing in 20 countries in Africa. I am not a global brand yet but
Africa. I am not a global brand yet but my products are in 20 countries because
my products are in 20 countries because there's a distribution infrastructure
there's a distribution infrastructure that I depend on. I don't have to worry
that I depend on. I don't have to worry about that. What that does is that when
about that. What that does is that when that moment comes that Wakanda moment
that moment comes that Wakanda moment comes again for a house of tio and you
comes again for a house of tio and you have to move from your production that
have to move from your production that you have that is supplying 20 countries
you have that is supplying 20 countries to meeting demand that is coming from
to meeting demand that is coming from around the world. It is not a huge jump
around the world. It is not a huge jump because the way like when you're working
because the way like when you're working out or you're playing sport muscle
out or you're playing sport muscle memory. Exactly.
memory. Exactly. >> When you've been doing something and
>> When you've been doing something and you've been doing it continuously, you
you've been doing it continuously, you already know the levers to pull, who to
already know the levers to pull, who to call and all that.
call and all that. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly. >> And that becomes a lot easier. So from a
>> And that becomes a lot easier. So from a multiplier level, imagine having a
multiplier level, imagine having a system in place that allows a house of
system in place that allows a house of tio, a Sonia Mugabo, a Flo or an aima to
tio, a Sonia Mugabo, a Flo or an aima to all be able to achieve that. That's
all be able to achieve that. That's really the thinking and the mindset
really the thinking and the mindset around building a business like Afroity.
around building a business like Afroity. Other than that,
Other than that, >> everything will just be a dream. The
>> everything will just be a dream. The policy will come, the trade rules will
policy will come, the trade rules will come and everything, but when the time
come and everything, but when the time comes, our makers do not have the
comes, our makers do not have the training ground and the capacity to be
training ground and the capacity to be able to scale up.
able to scale up. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly. >> So, yeah, that was my pitch for
>> So, yeah, that was my pitch for >> No. Yeah. up. I I agree with you and
>> No. Yeah. up. I I agree with you and that's why um you know these convers you
that's why um you know these convers you know I think one one thing you um that I
know I think one one thing you um that I should also mention is relationships the
should also mention is relationships the relationships don't go from zero to 100
relationships don't go from zero to 100 they built over time and that's when um
they built over time and that's when um that's when you will you know it's
that's when you will you know it's always fascinating when I hear about
always fascinating when I hear about relationships that happened or occurred
relationships that happened or occurred for bigger fashion brands around the
for bigger fashion brands around the world and uh I think that
world and uh I think that I think One other aspect that that uh I
I think One other aspect that that uh I should mention is many designers in in
should mention is many designers in in Africa we are designers we do production
Africa we are designers we do production retailers
retailers uh we do all part of the the chain but
uh we do all part of the the chain but in reality the biggest brands around the
in reality the biggest brands around the world don't do all those things and um
world don't do all those things and um it's time for us to as different players
it's time for us to as different players in the in in the system start to emerge,
in the in in the system start to emerge, strategic partnerships will allow
strategic partnerships will allow everyone to to to grow bigger.
everyone to to to grow bigger. >> Great. Um, so in terms of the I'm still
>> Great. Um, so in terms of the I'm still on this idea of like looking at the
on this idea of like looking at the Afroio business, I say Afroio
Afroio business, I say Afroio sounds like a JV for the future. Looking
sounds like a JV for the future. Looking at the Africa House of Taio brand and
at the Africa House of Taio brand and globalization and scaling, how do you
globalization and scaling, how do you balance something deeply rooted in
balance something deeply rooted in Rwanda while appealing to international
Rwanda while appealing to international audiences like in your mind frame and
audiences like in your mind frame and when you are storyboarding for your
when you are storyboarding for your concepts? How do you think through such
concepts? How do you think through such a scenario?
a scenario? Um, I think that I think that sometimes
Um, I think that I think that sometimes you can create one product and then just
you can create one product and then just put it in different contextes and uh and
put it in different contextes and uh and and it's it's embraced in different
and it's it's embraced in different ways.
ways. So, so sometimes you can create a
So, so sometimes you can create a singular product but maybe the way you
singular product but maybe the way you portray it you show different uh you
portray it you show different uh you know uh different spaces, societies
know uh different spaces, societies uh or different events or different so
uh or different events or different so that's that's one side of it. Um the
that's that's one side of it. Um the other side of it is is
other side of it is is sort of trying to understand why
sort of trying to understand why different people purchase our products.
different people purchase our products. Um,
Um, and you know, in in in Rwanda,
and you know, in in in Rwanda, you know, many people who buy our
you know, many people who buy our shirts,
shirts, they like it as an alternative to a
they like it as an alternative to a suit.
suit. Um, they're just like, I'm, you know,
Um, they're just like, I'm, you know, climate, whatever. I just also don't
climate, whatever. I just also don't feel comfortable wearing suits all the
feel comfortable wearing suits all the time, but the shirt and maybe pants give
time, but the shirt and maybe pants give me a formal formal look. people from
me a formal formal look. people from other parts of the world will come and
other parts of the world will come and see that and say you know what I want to
see that and say you know what I want to try the same and uh I I feel that that
try the same and uh I I feel that that there different ways of of doing it.
there different ways of of doing it. Sometimes it's color combinations as
Sometimes it's color combinations as like an introduction. So you have um
like an introduction. So you have um if I were to design a shirt for someone
if I were to design a shirt for someone who has many formal events and they live
who has many formal events and they live in either Europe, UK, uh the states,
in either Europe, UK, uh the states, maybe you start them off with a navy
maybe you start them off with a navy blue, start them off with a black, a
blue, start them off with a black, a gray, then you start to transition them
gray, then you start to transition them to maybe a dark green, burgundy, and
to maybe a dark green, burgundy, and eventually they have the the full
eventually they have the the full spectrum. Um, but I think it's so
spectrum. Um, but I think it's so important for us to to stay true to an
important for us to to stay true to an identity and an aesthetic. We we
identity and an aesthetic. We we shouldn't um
shouldn't um rather than trying to change our
rather than trying to change our products to fit
products to fit another market in terms of design. We
another market in terms of design. We have to
have to also identify similarities and the
also identify similarities and the context in another country that would
context in another country that would allow for our product to sell
allow for our product to sell >> to fit in.
>> to fit in. Um do you have a playbook for expanding
Um do you have a playbook for expanding a house of tio to other
a house of tio to other African countries other parts of the
African countries other parts of the world in your mind when you see the
world in your mind when you see the vision for out of
vision for out of >> I don't have a definite uh playbook I I
>> I don't have a definite uh playbook I I I
I learn every time I have a new experience
learn every time I have a new experience but I I I the I think the most important
but I I I the I think the most important thing for me entering a new market
thing for me entering a new market whether it's in Africa, whether it's uh
whether it's in Africa, whether it's uh in uh the West is by physically getting
in uh the West is by physically getting the products there for people to
the products there for people to experience. It might be a short-term
experience. It might be a short-term popup. It might be a more established
popup. It might be a more established retail partnership.
retail partnership. And so that is key, you know, to see if
And so that is key, you know, to see if if your products even work in that
if your products even work in that space. But aside from that, I know I'm
space. But aside from that, I know I'm probably not going to set up a house of
probably not going to set up a house of tire shop in many of these cities. So,
tire shop in many of these cities. So, it's it's about finding the right
it's it's about finding the right partnerships that will allow us to to
partnerships that will allow us to to take our products into these different
take our products into these different spaces with um
spaces with um you know with minimal burden there.
you know with minimal burden there. There are people who who are taking on
There are people who who are taking on the risk to break into new markets.
the risk to break into new markets. There are people who have better market
There are people who have better market understanding
understanding and uh sort of will create that cushion
and uh sort of will create that cushion for us when we try to to take a steps
for us when we try to to take a steps into new new markets.
into new new markets. H
Matthew, as we seek to we get to wrap up on this
as we seek to we get to wrap up on this um conversation, I want us to touch a
um conversation, I want us to touch a little bit around uh your views about
little bit around uh your views about your work so far, impact and legacy.
your work so far, impact and legacy. Um
Um but since you're big on stories, so
but since you're big on stories, so maybe let me put this question in. Um
maybe let me put this question in. Um you've worked and employed a number of
you've worked and employed a number of people uh artisans from the very
people uh artisans from the very beginning. What's one story of impact
beginning. What's one story of impact that stays with you in your 14 year
that stays with you in your 14 year journey?
>> It's difficult to pick one story in particular, but one thing that I love to
particular, but one thing that I love to see is progress.
see is progress. I love to see progress um from my team
I love to see progress um from my team and and their their personal progress.
and and their their personal progress. So um you know the there guys who joined
So um you know the there guys who joined the team who had like one pair of shoes
the team who had like one pair of shoes you and uh you
you and uh you they were they were grateful to come to
they were they were grateful to come to work just cuz we had lunch. Yeah. and uh
work just cuz we had lunch. Yeah. and uh and now you know they have families,
and now you know they have families, they have moped or shoes, they have a
they have moped or shoes, they have a motorbike, you know, stuff like that. So
motorbike, you know, stuff like that. So it's exciting for me to come to work
it's exciting for me to come to work every day and I'm seeing progress from
every day and I'm seeing progress from my person their their personal progress
my person their their personal progress because it's showing that that our work
because it's showing that that our work has
has it has impact and uh it's you know I've
it has impact and uh it's you know I've taken a personal interest in you know
taken a personal interest in you know are you kids going to school and I feel
are you kids going to school and I feel like I I go a bit beyond the HR now and
like I I go a bit beyond the HR now and >> becomes like family. Yeah, it comes like
>> becomes like family. Yeah, it comes like family. There's some uh I have some
family. There's some uh I have some staff members, you know, they came talk
staff members, you know, they came talk to me and said, "Listen, my wife doesn't
to me and said, "Listen, my wife doesn't have a job."
have a job." And the first time I'm just like, "Oh, I
And the first time I'm just like, "Oh, I don't know. Should I should I be hiring
don't know. Should I should I be hiring couples?"
couples?" And um and I was just like the fact that
And um and I was just like the fact that they decided to have this conversation
they decided to have this conversation with me, let's let's see, let's see. And
with me, let's let's see, let's see. And um you know, it feels it also feels like
um you know, it feels it also feels like a big responsibility.
a big responsibility. to know a household depends on our
to know a household depends on our success every day. But uh I think the
success every day. But uh I think the the most exciting thing for me uh
the most exciting thing for me uh daytoday is also to see the progress of
daytoday is also to see the progress of my team. And if they've achieved certain
my team. And if they've achieved certain things one year,
things one year, I'm like what is it going to look like
I'm like what is it going to look like next year? And they must also
next year? And they must also have ambition for themselves and to
have ambition for themselves and to create an environment where we all
create an environment where we all collectively want to to do better.
collectively want to to do better. on feeling the sense of responsibility.
on feeling the sense of responsibility. Do you at any point in time feel like
Do you at any point in time feel like from a cultural representation point of
from a cultural representation point of view, you have the whole of that you
view, you have the whole of that you have on your shoulders the need to
have on your shoulders the need to represent Rwanda culturally when it
represent Rwanda culturally when it comes to the creative space and the
comes to the creative space and the fashion space to the rest of the world.
those those those ideas and thoughts they continue to develop in different
they continue to develop in different ways. I feel that uh
ways. I feel that uh you know what is representing Rwanda
you know what is representing Rwanda and and I think of if if creatively I
and and I think of if if creatively I said we only need to do Rondon inspired
said we only need to do Rondon inspired design alone I think that that's
design alone I think that that's limited. Um I think we need to look at
limited. Um I think we need to look at at I I enjoy looking at Africa as a
at I I enjoy looking at Africa as a whole. Uh but I think that representing
whole. Uh but I think that representing Rwanda also includes
Rwanda also includes doing well as a brand from Rwanda
doing well as a brand from Rwanda and uh whenever there is success that
and uh whenever there is success that has been born from here
has been born from here that is that is representing Ronda well.
that is that is representing Ronda well. So um you know there are times when you
So um you know there are times when you know I've had people come to the store
know I've had people come to the store and say no I want something that looks
and say no I want something that looks more Rondon. I want I want every shirt
more Rondon. I want I want every shirt should have imigo and I was like no
should have imigo and I was like no that's not that's first of all random
that's not that's first of all random design is not just immigo
design is not just immigo and then beyond that uh we have to
and then beyond that uh we have to understand that random design is can be
understand that random design is can be shaped by experiences here by being here
shaped by experiences here by being here while you're creating and uh some of
while you're creating and uh some of these things evolve over time they're
these things evolve over time they're not going to be frozen in like in time
not going to be frozen in like in time from a you know you get a design that
from a you know you get a design that will existed it at one particular time
will existed it at one particular time and say the shirts will always look like
and say the shirts will always look like this. We have to continue evolving.
Let's say a young man walks up to you. He's inspired by everything that you're
He's inspired by everything that you're doing and he says that
doing and he says that what does it take? What does it really
what does it take? What does it really take to get to the level that you are
take to get to the level that you are now? I know in your hearts you want to
now? I know in your hearts you want to go somewhere else but there will
go somewhere else but there will definitely be people who would look at
definitely be people who would look at where you are and feel see that as a
where you are and feel see that as a milestone that they would want to
milestone that they would want to achieve and they ask you what does it
achieve and they ask you what does it really take to be brutally honest
really take to be brutally honest in the response to that young person
in the response to that young person what would you say I'd say a couple of
what would you say I'd say a couple of things um self-belief
things um self-belief um a strong sense of self knowing you
um a strong sense of self knowing you know try and know yourself what makes
know try and know yourself what makes you tick, what excites you, what
you tick, what excites you, what disappoints you, what upsets you, um
disappoints you, what upsets you, um what do you think uh might make you
what do you think uh might make you special? You know, you have to have that
special? You know, you have to have that strong sense of soul because you now
strong sense of soul because you now create the conditions that allow um for
create the conditions that allow um for you to do good work. Another practical
you to do good work. Another practical thing, a practical thing that I would I
thing, a practical thing that I would I would say is important is you have to
would say is important is you have to create a buffers for yourself to be
create a buffers for yourself to be fully creative. Um
fully creative. Um you you have to create a buffer for
you you have to create a buffer for yourself to to dream you know and when
yourself to to dream you know and when you look at uh artists who've existed in
you look at uh artists who've existed in the world fashion designers or even
the world fashion designers or even athletes sometimes it's their family
athletes sometimes it's their family it's their friends it's their partner
it's their friends it's their partner who has been that buffer that sort of
who has been that buffer that sort of gave them the the protection
gave them the the protection to to to to to to to dream. And that's
to to to to to to to dream. And that's why it was so important for me to start
why it was so important for me to start when I was in school because I knew I
when I was in school because I knew I was still staying at my parents house
was still staying at my parents house when I when I started. And um I knew
when I when I started. And um I knew that if I went too far out of that that
that if I went too far out of that that period, I would I would have had another
period, I would I would have had another career path to be honest. And so I
career path to be honest. And so I identified the buffer that already
identified the buffer that already existed and I had to capitalize in that
existed and I had to capitalize in that time frame. I had to show some level of
time frame. I had to show some level of success in in that time frame. So
success in in that time frame. So creating a a buffer
creating a a buffer for you to to be ambitious, to dream, to
for you to to be ambitious, to dream, to be creative is so important.
be creative is so important. And then lastly, discipline.
And then lastly, discipline. If it's something that you want,
If it's something that you want, you have to be ready to sacrifice a
you have to be ready to sacrifice a number of things and give it a good go.
number of things and give it a good go. Okay. So, let's say today
Matthew Rugamba is 98 years old. You are enjoying your life
98 years old. You are enjoying your life somewhere,
somewhere, retiring, standing in front of a mirror
retiring, standing in front of a mirror and then you're looking back on your
and then you're looking back on your life. If you imagine yourself at that
life. If you imagine yourself at that age,
age, what's one thought you think will be on
what's one thought you think will be on your mind? Try to live a life with uh
your mind? Try to live a life with uh with minimal regret.
with minimal regret. >> Um but I I do think at a certain point
>> Um but I I do think at a certain point at at different points I try to take
at at different points I try to take stock.
stock. >> Okay. And so if I was 98 years old
>> Okay. And so if I was 98 years old thinking about my life,
thinking about my life, I will think did I live my life
I will think did I live my life authentically
authentically and uh authenticity is is
and uh authenticity is is important important to me and
important important to me and there are some things that work out
there are some things that work out there are some things that don't work
there are some things that don't work out but I but I will think I even when I
out but I but I will think I even when I look back at decisions I've made uh
look back at decisions I've made uh about things I've said in the past like
about things I've said in the past like that whole comment about uh the tribal
that whole comment about uh the tribal African tribal.
African tribal. >> Yeah. People using tribal to describe
>> Yeah. People using tribal to describe African fashion. Um I looked back I
African fashion. Um I looked back I looked back even now and say yes I was
looked back even now and say yes I was authentically
authentically myself and my my shared my opinion. Noah
myself and my my shared my opinion. Noah and and
and and I think when I look back my whole life,
I think when I look back my whole life, I will think about the decisions I made,
I will think about the decisions I made, um the thoughts I had, the things I said
um the thoughts I had, the things I said were were they all, you know, authentic
were were they all, you know, authentic and I will be at peace
and I will be at peace if I'm 51%
if I'm 51% authentic, you know, uh approach life
authentic, you know, uh approach life authentically.
authentically. >> That was Matthew Regamba,
>> That was Matthew Regamba, uh, founder and CEO. Well, he doesn't
uh, founder and CEO. Well, he doesn't call himself CEO, uh, creative director
call himself CEO, uh, creative director of House of Tao. It's been an amazing
of House of Tao. It's been an amazing conversation, a lot of amazing insights
conversation, a lot of amazing insights and nuggets. And for me, my biggest
and nuggets. And for me, my biggest takeout from all this is staying
takeout from all this is staying committed to it and believing in
committed to it and believing in yourself for the long haul. It's been
yourself for the long haul. It's been interesting and we wish you all the
interesting and we wish you all the best. Thank you very much for joining
best. Thank you very much for joining us.
us. >> Thank you very
>> Thank you very >> This is Rooted in Quality by
>> This is Rooted in Quality by Afroquality. We'll catch you again next
Afroquality. We'll catch you again next time. Thank you.
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