This content is an interview with the leader of Jamaat Islami, Shafi Rahman, discussing the party's political aspirations, its stance on Islamic law, women's rights, historical controversies, and its potential impact on Bangladesh's secular identity and democracy.
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Mr. Raman, you say that you respect
women and you believe that women can
rise to leadership positions. Can I ask
you how many women candidates has the
Jamaat Islami fielded in this election
in the parliamentary election?
>> Not a single one but we are preparing.
You will not see any substantial number
in any other parties also because
[music] this is a cultural entity in
Bangladesh. We are getting prepared for that.
that.
>> No, but it's not we are not saying
>> but surely it's not zero in any other
party. Why not have even one woman candidate?
candidate?
>> Answer is we are preparing for that.
>> Okay. But what about the position of the
head of the Jamaat? Could a woman take
your place one day?
>> It's not possible. It's not possible
because Allah made everyone in its own
entity. [music] What Allah made, we
cannot change it.
>> It's quite remarkable. You're saying
this in a country where you've had women
prime ministers for the past three decades.
For [music] decades, Bangladesh's
politics has been dominated by two
parties, the Awami League and the
Bangladesh Nationalist Party. But
there's always been a third force in
play, the Jamaat Islami, a political
party [music] based on Islamic principles.
principles.
Long confined to the margins, the Jamaat
was outlawed during the rule of now
deposed Prime Minister Shik Hassina
after her overthrow in August 2024. And
with national elections approaching, the
party is back in the spotlight. Recent
polling suggests Jamaat could emerge as
a major player.
In this episode, I speak to the party's
[music] leader, its am Shafi Rahman. I
question him about the Jamaat's
controversial past, its role during the
1971 war of independence and its
alliance with Pakistan. I press him on
the party's stated commitment to
introducing Islamic law. And I asked the
amir directly what does his party's
ascent mean for Bangladesh's [music]
secular identity, women's rights and the
future of its democracy.
>> Mr. Rahman, thanks so much indeed for
talking to Al Jazzer.
>> Thank you.
>> We are speaking uh weeks before the
election and by all accounts your party
is set to do perhaps the best it ever
has in its history. But should the
people of Bangladesh be worried because
the Jamaati Islami has said, your
leaders have said that you want this
country to be governed by Islamic law.
Thank you and welcome you here for
taking my interview.
You have raised a very critical question.
question.
>> We are going to participate in this
election under the existing law of the
country. We will try to perceive the
sentiment of the people.
will not do anything against the will of
the people.
>> You're saying will of the people but at
a public rally in July last year, Mr.
Mujibu Rahman, who I believe is your
party's vice president or number two,
you were present at that rally as well.
He said only Islamic laws should be
followed in the national parliament in
future and there should be no place for
man-made ideas or systems.
>> But you will follow the speech of chief
of the party.
You mean to say you you reject what he said?
said?
>> No, no, no. I am I am not rejecting or
receiving anything. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> But when you will consider
a strategy from a party
>> then you will look to the what the chief
of the party speaking. We are promoting
the values which Islam recognize. Say
for example anti-corruption,
transparency everywhere.
>> Yes. democratic rights of the people,
human rights are being
>> but those many but those many would
argue are already part of the statute. I
guess the question is and I think it's
very important to have clarity on this
because sometimes it can appear that we
get different messages from the Jamaat.
If you come to power will you bring in Islamic
Islamic
>> if is it is essential for the betterment
of the country. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Then parliament will decide the matter.
It's not me.
>> Parliament will decide
>> yes parliament will decide the matter.
>> Okay. Because you say this you say it's
still a matter of debate and discussion.
That's what you seem to be suggesting.
But in the past year alone, we've seen a
number of positions that you've taken
which seems to be pushing the country in
that direction. Let's start with women.
You proposed reducing working hours for
women because according to Quranic
principles, they can perform duties
towards their children. Why would you
make such a proposal
>> in in the 21st century?
>> Who said I never told like this?
>> It's a proposal you made. It's been
widely reported.
>> No, no. What I told I told
>> Yes. A mother at the same time he is
caring baby. He's look aftering her baby.
baby. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And at the same time he will perform the
same duty same hour with the gentleman.
It's not a justice. At least for
lactating period
while she will be childbearing
>> or child caring. This period they have
to show honor. What we found actually
some sisters some ladies >> yes
>> yes
>> when she considered it's not possible to
continue my job he gave up the job but
if you reduce the hour for certain
period it's not unlimited and it's not
mandatory for all it's
>> talking you're talking about only
reducing it during the lactating period
>> basically that but if some lady
decide no I will perform 8 hour duty no
problem it's an it's an option for her
>> but there's already the option of
maternity leave
>> only which many women
>> only only for 6 months >> yes
>> yes
>> it's not sufficient we feel a child
never become grown up within 6 months
>> okay because you understand that your
proposal has been received in a very
different way there's actually been
protests about this people have come out
onto the streets including the women of
Bangladesh They say whether they choose
to work or stay at home. If I can finish
if I can finish the if I can finish the question.
question.
>> I I do respect.
>> No, I must I must finish the question.
They say whether they choose to work or
stay at home is their personal choice.
They say your proposal will push women
back into darkness and restrict their independence.
independence.
>> Question of darkness. It is a matter of
showing respect to them. No question of darkness.
darkness.
We never told like this and we never
think like this. Even
>> it is their matter. Yes, there are some
activist whose ideology is completely
contradictory with us. They can come to
the street. We also respect them. We
show respect to the freedom of
expression. They can come but it's a
very negligible section of the society.
>> Millions of women as you know sir work
in Bangladesh's workforce especially in
the garment industry. Over 50% are women
and they have struggled for decades to
get there. They have fought the
stereotype that women have to be parents
and mothers and looking after children.
Men can also shoulder that
responsibility. And the worry is that
your proposal is rolling the clock back
that employers will now not want to hire
women because of the fact that you now
have restrictions on their working hours.
hours.
>> It is your concern but this is not the
fact. I have visited few governments
industry after my speech. >> Yes,
>> Yes,
>> I did not observe such thing anywhere.
anywhere rather they feel comfort yes
we'll get chance to come back again in
my job after two years or two and a half
years but when they dropped down here
they never came back here
>> okay well as I said there are protests
but you've dismissed them you said they
make a very small percentage of of the
opinion on this
>> yes it's a beautiful democracy
>> okay but Mr. Raman, you say that you
respect women and you believe that women
can rise to leadership positions. Can I
ask you how many women candidates has
the Jamaat Islami fielded in this
election in the parliamentary election?
>> Not a single one. But we are preparing.
We have already participated in local
government election where our sisters
contested and become succeeded. But in
future we are preparing for that in
parliament also.
>> Not a single woman candidate in this
election though.
>> No. No.
>> Why not?
>> Yes. You will not sub see any
substantial number in any other parties
also because this is a cultural entity
in Bangladesh. We are getting prepared
for that.
>> But surely it's not zero in any other
party. Why not have even one woman candidate
candidate
>> already answered?
>> I am what was the answer?
>> Answer is we are preparing for that.
Therefore in future inshallah we'll
contest like this.
We are not disrespectful to them in this regard.
regard.
>> Okay. But what about the position of the
head of the Jamaat? Could a woman become
the head of the Jamaat, take your place
one day?
>> It's not possible. It's not possible
because Allah made everyone in its own
entity because you will never be able to
bear a child.
We'll never be able to feed our breast
to a child. This is God-given.
And there are some differences between
men and women. what Allah made. Yes, we
cannot change it.
>> I'm not able to change it.
>> First of all, not all women necessarily
want to be or will be mothers. But even
if they are, even if they're raising
children, why can't they head an
organization like the Jamaat? I'm not
able to understand
>> there are some limitation in some cases
they will not be able to perform their
duties. They will be limited
>> physical [clears throat] inconveniences
you know already. We cannot deny it. I
actually don't know
>> why I don't know a mother when will give
birth a child how will perform the duty
it's possible never Allah knows
everything best
>> it's quite remarkable you're saying this
in a country where you've had women
prime ministers for the past three decades
decades
>> we did not protest them already I said
we are not disrespectful >> yes
>> yes
>> but if you look to the world
>> those who are upgrade world how many
ladies came forward
Fascinating. You're saying that they
can't be the head of an organization
while they can be the prime minister of
a country of what 160 70 billion people.
So clearly women are capable of
leadership positions.
>> Even most of the country in the world
did not consider this feasible. This is
the reality of the world.
>> Many countries have had women leaders
including yours.
>> Few countries.
>> It's interesting because you were
actually part of a a government with the
BNP. You are part of an alliance
government. Bigam Khaledia a woman was
the prime minister. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> You think she did a good job as prime minister?
minister?
>> It's not our decision. It's their party decision.
decision. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> We should respect this party opinion.
>> We cannot impose anything upon anyone.
>> Mr. Rahman, it's not just gender rights.
The worry is that the rise of the Jamaat
also poses a real threat to cultural
diversity, to media freedoms. Your
student leaders have made very
provocative statements against media
houses and cultural institutions that
were attacked last month.
>> Say for example,
>> for example, okay, Mr. Mustapur Rahman,
he's a Jamaat student wing leader of the
Raj Shahi University, he said at a rally
on the eve of the attacks, we declared
that the so-called newspapers including
Protoolo and the Daily Star must be shut
down. If any journalist from these
papers is present here, they should
leave immediately. Another Jamaat
student leader who's uh at the Jiangir
Nagar University reportedly said that
Chaya and Udichi these were two cultural
institutions that were attacked must be
crushed to achieve Bangladesh's true independence.
independence.
>> You have observed these statements but
you did not observe the statement of the
party Jamati Islam and Islamat.
>> No, I'm asking you for your reaction to
>> Yes, we have already given our reaction.
We condemned it and we never supported it.
it.
You've distanced yourself from these
statements very clearly. Very clearly
both Islamic Chhatra Shabir and Jamat Islam.
Islam.
>> But what action have you taken against
these leaders? Satir will make the
taken. It's not our side organization.
It is matter of Islam. Please ask them.
>> No, but it is very much part of the the
Jamaat umbrella.
>> No, it is not a legal part of Jamat
umbrella like other organizations. Say
for example, Chhatru or Chhatru League.
Okay. They are the side organization of
this party declared way in their constitution.
constitution.
>> So you have no power to punish these leaders.
leaders.
>> We we can we can give only our opinion
and suggestion. Man can commit some
fault. You have to correct him. This is
not the way to shed him. But if he
repeat again then you can take action.
>> No because he's saying that these
organizations should be crushed to
achieve Bangladesh's true independence.
That's very strong.
>> Gen warning to them.
Okay. You don't think that that raises a
question about how serious your
condemnation is that it renders it
somewhat ineffectual if they just let
off with a slap on the wrist?
>> You can say but what we did did we did
it sincerely.
>> Okay. Can I ask you sir what happens to
minorities in Bangladesh if the Jamaat
comes to par? I know that you said all
faiths will be treated equally but the
Jamaat record shows otherwise doesn't it?
it?
>> What is that record?
There are several instances I'm I'm
going to site. Human rights watchdog
said that when U and the BNP were in
power in the 2001 2006 period, attacks
on Hindus increased alarmingly. In most
instances, the perpetrators were members
of the BNP and the Jamaati Islami.
>> We are taking challenge. None from
Jamaat Islam have been engaged in such
type of uh vandalism or any attack.
You deny any role at all in any attack
involving the Jamaat Isam
>> since from the liberation of Bangladesh
and several time we have very clearly
uttered this
and now also
>> okay because
>> say for example
>> okay you you reject human rights watch
let me ask you about the United Nations
>> please tell let me tell >> yes
>> yes
>> Hassa ruled the country for 15 and a
half years
how the rule Everyone knows
in this period there were there were so
many attacks been conducted
>> upon the Hindu communities. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Bish communities.
When anything happened
they make liable Jamatistan for that.
>> This is not by the way the Bangladesh
government. This is a this is human
rights watch.
>> Let me tell and
>> this is human rights watch. It's an
international watch.
>> Repeat my answer.
>> Okay. But no single case been probed in
the court. Ultimately at the end of the
day it has been probed their people who
are engaged with this nonsense. Not the
Jamaat Islam people.
>> A United Nations report on the recent
attacks against minorities after the
August uprising
>> says that some Jamaate Islami and BNP
supporters were involved in revenge
violence on religious and indigenous groups.
groups.
>> I reject this.
>> Are you somewhat in denial, sir? I have
cited to you two human rights reports
across two different time periods by two
international agencies and you're saying
it's all false.
>> Yes. Yes. All false. I am not telling
all false. There are reality attack been happen
happen
>> but we are not engaged with this.
>> All right.
>> Please please let them tell who are the
people specific people who will take action.
action.
>> Okay. The Jamaats also carries
tremendous negative historical baggage
doesn't it? It stands accused of war
crimes alongside the Pakistan army
during Bangladesh's war of independence
against Pakistan in 1971. An estimated 3
million killed, 300,000 women raped by
the army and its collaborators. Many of
your leaders have been convicted,
sentenced to death. Isn't that a very
dark legacy to shake off?
>> Yes, you are uh asking so many critical
questions to me. It's another one.
Please look at the past. What happened
that time? Jamati Islamist decision was
a political decision.
It was not a armed force.
>> A political decision [clears throat]
party to support Pakistan or to oppose
the independ with Pakistan unitedly. It
was Pakistan that time.
>> Why we did it?
The leaders of Jamaat Islam at that time
who served the organization they
predicted if with the help of India
Pakistan being liberated or it gets independence
independence
>> it will be another hgemony upon
Bangladesh and what we experienced in
>> I'm not asking sir on the political
decision. I'm asking about the war crime.
crime.
>> Yes I am coming here.
>> Yes. When we are never engaged in crime
at that period,
you'll say why the court has given
verdict like this death sentence or life
sentence. Why it was
>> it was totally perverted
>> and a debated justice.
>> It was mis miscarriage of justice.
Why and how
the same court >> m
>> m
>> after the change of 5th of August >> yes
>> yes
>> had decided one pending case of our one
leader at Islam and they have given so
many observations upon the bartik which
had been passed earlier
>> but sir can I ask
>> was totally politically motivated and
>> but can I ask you this though there
could be concerns about fair trial but
isn't there undeniable evidence that the
jamaat was linked to the atrocities. The
International Commission of Jurers said
in 1972, "Hundreds of Bengali
intellectuals were killed within the
last few days before the surrender of
the Pakistan army. These murders were
perpetrated by members of a paramilitary
believed to have been the action section
of the Jamaat Islami. A New York Times
dispatch from 1971 reports that
throughout East Pakistan, the Pakistani
army is training new paramilitaries. The
recruits include adherence of the
Jamaat. I can keep citing many such references.
references.
>> Yes, I am coming to this point. Look,
Look,
during this period, there are some
forces, military was there, paramilitary
was there. >> Yes,
>> Yes,
>> they were conducted and controlled by
Pakistan army, not anyone, not any organization.
organization.
>> But the jamat was part of the
paramilitaries carrying out these atrocities.
atrocities.
>> I I'm giving you answer.
>> Yes. If someone being engaged in any
atrocity that time,
>> why not a single
uh case been filed against them even no
GD general diary in any police station
of East Pakistan that time
>> or in Bangladesh period in Bangladesh
that time
>> why not?
>> So are you saying these accounts are all
>> why after 40 years it came?
>> No. Are you saying then all these
accounts the international commission of
jurists the New York Times all of these
are false
>> that time the evidences were fresh
witness were alive and the memory was
very quiet but not a single leader been
accused for that why Mr. Can I respond >> yes
>> yes
>> sometimes Mr. Rahman, it can take
countries years to come to terms with
the crimes of the past. The fact that a
lot of time has passed doesn't
necessarily absolve individuals or
organizations of guilt. Brother that
time Shak Mujib ruled the country for
quarter to four years and he got
sufficient time. He also enlisted 195
war criminals finally and all of them
were Pakistani men. Not anyone from East
Pakistan. I'm saying leave aside.
>> It's it's interesting sir because you
said at an event in New York last year,
you said if anyone has been hurt or
harmed by the Jamaat Islami since 1947,
I seek unconditional forgiveness. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> On behalf of all the individuals and the organization.
organization. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> You seem to be acknowledging that there
is a problem. There is some complicity
or some involvement of the Jamaat.
>> It's not it's not
>> otherwise why would you say that? It's
not matter of assume assumption rather
because we are men we are organization
man by made by men. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> So men can commit any fault
>> including atrocities in 71
>> fault and atrocity is not same. I never
told atrocity. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> I told fault. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> That's why I seek pardon and we'll
continue it. So you're saying these
millions who were killed, lacks of women
raped, the Jamaat had nothing to do with
it. Who committed these crimes then?
>> Who committed this crime?
>> I'm saying if it wasn't if it wasn't
>> there are records.
>> The army and the paramilitaries.
>> There are records. We we are not denying
this. It is it is a reality of the
history. I am not going to the number
what you mentioned but but if a single
man even been been assassinated or a
single mother been lost her dignity we
are quite respectful to them.
>> My last question to you on this subject
is because it's election time and I know
that there have been similar denials
from you in the past of the Jamaat in
the past.
>> Would you like to change the script?
Would you like to apologize on behalf of
the Jamaat to the people of Bangladesh
for your involvement in the 1971 atrocities?
atrocities?
>> If we commit atrocities then we will
definitely seek pardon.
>> Why seek pardon? We should be tried.
>> But if not, if it is a garbage upon us,
if it is we are the victim of this
propaganda, why I should go to the do this?
this?
>> Okay, I guess I've got my answer. Uh but
tell me uh we're coming towards the end.
Ahead of the elections another big
controversy has been relations between
India and Bangladesh that are otherwise
two friendly countries but that's
dramatically deteriorated because
Bangladesh wants India to deport Sheikh
Hassina and India has refused so far. If
you come to Pasa how will you tackle
this problem?
>> We'll set fruitful dialogue with India
because they are our neighbors.
>> Okay. Our position is very clear.
We never give any discomfort to our
neighbors. Similarly, we will hope they
will give us comfort. Our relation will
be brotherly, will be friendly, will be
mutual respect upon mutual respect and trust.
trust.
>> What if India flatly refuses though to
extradite shaker?
>> No problem. We'll set further dialogue.
Dialogic the solution not other thing.
Has India reached out to you? I know
that you met an Indian diplomat. Did any
of this come up in discussion?
>> Just one diplomat came to visit me after
my sickness, >> right?
>> right?
>> And that was not a political setup. So I
did not discuss these things. It's not
just about Sheik Hassina because last
time when you and the BNP were in power,
India said that Bangladesh should become
a safe haven for anti-India insurgents
and the same accusation is being
repeated now
>> question of anti-India rather you tell
the people are pro Bangladeshi India we
are pro Bangladeshi and every citizen
should be own their own country first
>> you're not more inclined towards
Pakistan as many believe question.
>> You have a historical relationship with them.
them.
>> We have no specific inclination to any
nation or country. Rather, we are quite
committed to maintain a just relation
with all.
>> My final question to you, sir. This
election is meant to be about change,
especially the millions of young people
who are part of the anti-Hina uprising.
They would like to see change. But given
everything we've discussed the Jamaat's
record when it comes to women when it
comes to minorities all of that do you
believe do you believe that you will be
able to deliver change
>> in Bangladesh
>> let the people to decide the matter I
can give a simple example to you >> okay
>> okay
>> in five major universities the student
union election has been conducted there
are girls and there are boys
>> and they are quite sensible
they have given their verdict in favor
of Islamic Chhatrahir. Why?
>> In favor of your student
>> Islam. Why? Why?
They have decided the aspiration of the
young people will be filled through
them. They have decided the prestige,
dignity and privacy of our girls will be
maintained by Islamic. what the sensible
people of this uh sector has given a
message to the nation we can perceive.
>> All right. Well, let's see how it goes.
Mr. Raman, thank you very much indeed.
>> Thank you so much
>> for speaking to us and taking our questions.
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