The core theme revolves around understanding oneself, particularly the ego and emotions, as the key to overcoming challenges like addiction, achieving genuine fulfillment, and navigating the complexities of modern life, moving beyond superficial "efficiency" and external validation.
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I struggled a lot in college was
addicted to video games and then my dad
recommended that I go to a monastery in
India to become a monk and I was like oh
I'm there is the material people who
trying to get money and I'm going to be
better than all of them. I'm going to be
spiritual. There's a lot of ego in that.
I'm better than you because I don't care
about money. The ego will take anything
about you that [music] is good and will
hijack it. Once I started understanding
how I worked and that's when things
started to change.
>> What was breakthrough for you?
>> Dr. K is a Harvard trained psychiatrist
and co-founder of Healthy Gamer. Through
streaming, science, and his own personal
struggle with addiction, he's helping
millions face their mental health head on.
on.
>> The more that we use technology, it
deprivives us of getting joy in other
places. Once you get dependent [music]
on this, the rest of life is literally boring.
boring.
>> Is dopamine the culprit? This is where
>> Fun question I love to start with. If
you could only pick one word to describe
yourself as a professional, what would
that word be?
>> Noob. [laughter]
>> I like him. And and and why that word?
>> Um just cuz you know the more I learn
and the more I realize I don't know as
much as I think I know.
um you know I'm arguably quite
accomplished but like I still make
really really really basic mistakes and
I I think uh you know one of my mentors
once told me it's you know doctors make
really bad mistakes when they start to
think that they can't make mistakes. So
So
>> even now I mean especially with the rate
of like how much research we have
>> just the the amount of available
knowledge is increasing astronomically.
Yeah. So,
>> I think that's also it has to be a
really fun posture for you as you
continue to gain notoriety and knowledge
to kind of keep yourself in a place
where we don't get too big for our
britches to borrow an old phrase.
>> Absolutely. So, so I I I find that I
make the biggest mistakes when I operate
from ego. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And um That's good.
>> Yeah. And I think unfortunately I've had
or fortunately I've had a life where uh
my ego gets kept in check whether I
wanted to or not. So [laughter]
>> yeah. Okay. I I I love that. Uh your
story is fascinating. For folks who
don't know you, this is a direct quote
that we pulled uh from some of your
writing. Within eight years of flunking
out of college, I would start teaching
at Harvard Medical School.
>> So I flunked out and then took five and
a half years to finish college.
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> Then eight years later. Yeah. So, coming
off of what you just said about you've
had so much of your life where it kind
of has humbled you.
>> Uh what what had to change in you from
that journey to where you flunk out and
decide, all right, uh I'm going to get
my act together, you do, and then you
end up in a prestigious place like
Harvard and now that's launched
everything you do. I struggled a lot in
college was addicted to video games and
then my dad recommended that I go to a
monastery in India an ashram uh which is
like where people study yoga and
meditation. So I went there and I think
that's where I learned the most
important thing which was the thing that
I really focused on was like
understanding myself. So we learn
formally things like mathematics and
chemistry and even like physiology but
we don't learn how we work. Where do my
desires come from? What is my ego? Why
does it grow? Why does it shrink? Why do
I make mistakes? Right? So there I
learned a methodology of basically self-study.
self-study.
And once I started understanding how I
work, like I looked under the hood of my
internal processes and that's when
things started to change. And then it
still took a while. It wasn't like this
>> single transformational moment. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um
>> Um
>> what was the hardest part of the
experience with monks of of getting into
their world and practicing that? What
was the most excruciating?
>> Uh well, the first two weeks were awful.
Probably the worst weeks of my life. I
mean, I was at a rural monastery um
outside of Bangalore in southern India
and it was, you know, tons of
mosquitoes, food was terrible. Um it was
just a very very rural area and I just
wasn't ready for it. But I I'd say I
think the hardest thing was I had done
something where that's very common which
is I had the ego of having no ego.
I had sort of been like okay so I
decided to become a monk and I was like
oh I'm there is the material people who
are trying to get money and I'm going to
be better than all of them I'm going to
be spiritual that's better right
>> right I'm going to let go of all of
these silly career aspirations and all
of these things but if you really think
about it like there's there's a lot of
ego in that right I'm better than you
because I don't care about money
>> so there's a lot of subtlety and I think
once I understood
oh this is how the ego works that the
ego will take anything about you that is
good and will hijack it. I think that's
learning that lesson was incredibly
difficult because it's so small, right?
It's not like a big thing. Everyone
looks at me on the outside and thinks,
"Oh, this guy is great." That's when you
need to be careful.
>> What led to learning that lesson?
>> Two or three things. One, I think, is
just I I just trained in awareness. Uh
so just to be aware of what's going on
within me. And then I think the other
thing is um I kept making mistakes. So
like you know if we don't if we're doing
something wrong in life we're going to
keep screwing up. So I I kept on running
into problems and then I was when I was
trying to figure out like why am I
running into this problem? Why am I
running to this problem? I started to
realize okay there's a lot of subtle ego
at play.
>> What was the problem that you kept
running into?
>> Oh I mean I all kinds of problems. So
everything from um you know I tried to
do well in school and I sort of didn't
and it took me a while to figure out how
to do that. Um so because I I was still
trying to repair my mistakes, right?
Because I was a failure
>> and I no longer wanted to be a failure.
But I don't know if that makes sense. It
still has to do with my identity, right?
>> I want to be a winner. I don't want to
be a loser. The root of the problem is
there's still an eye there. So that's
one example. Um, you know, I I at one
point I was dating my wife and we had
challenges in our relationship and I
think a lot of the challenges in our
relationship related to my ego. Um, and
then I I think it really started to
change when I stopped caring about
outcomes and started just focusing on
the action. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So if if if I do well, great. If I don't
do well, not good. And and that uh was
something funny happened. I got a call
when I graduated from medical school. I
got a call from um my mentor and because
there was like a ceremony like a
graduation ceremony which I missed. And
then he was like where are you? And I
was like I'm at home you know and he's
like why aren't you here? And I was like
what you know I thought it was kind of
optional. He's like I'm presenting an
award for you. Like I'm giving you an
award man. Like where are you? And I had
no idea cuz I had never checked my
grades. Like I didn't know that I was
getting an award. M
>> so so that shift of really stepping away
from like trying to be successful had
all kinds of problems.
>> I want to dive into some of your
experience with the monks because I
think we all read about these things. We
hear these things and we think oh maybe
we can't identify with the discipline it
takes but when you go into that setting
>> um was it silence? Was it ritual?
What was it? Sure. Or what were a few
things that I that we could sit here and
we're watching and we're not in a
monastery but we can adopt some of these >> absolutely
>> absolutely
>> habits or actions. What was breakthrough
for you?
>> Okay. So I think first thing is the
setting was varied. So I um tried to
take my vows at the age of 21.
>> Uh one of my teachers told me that
taking your vows and forsaking giving up
your life means that you have something
worth giving up. You've got nothing.
you're basically a failure in life. So
he said go back to the United States,
get a doctoral degree and then at the
age of 30 if you want to take your vows
then you can do it. Go build a life and
then give it up. Um so that was one of
my teachers. So I I traveled in
different places. So I I wasn't like a
part of one institution. So I traveled
to different parts of India, different
settings, everything from Himalayas to
an uh EEG lab studying the neuroscience
of meditation. So, all kinds of
different settings.
I think what a lot of people don't
realize is like, you know, we think
about discipline. I'm a pretty lazy guy.
I'm not super disciplined.
>> Um, and I think one of the key things
that I learned is that, you know, we
think about effort.
But if you think about what's the
difference between something being hard
and something being easy, I think it's
your understanding.
So, if someone were to ask you, "Oh,
Ken, my god, how do you interview
people? That must be so hard. Does it
feel hard for you? >> No.
>> No.
>> Why not?
>> Because I've done it a lot. I've studied
the craft.
>> Yeah. Right. Right.
>> It's it's instinctive to this point.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. Right. So, it's become easy.
easy.
>> But that easiness doesn't necessarily
come from discipline. It comes from understanding.
understanding. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like you know what it's like now. You
know how to do this. It's easy to do.
>> Even if you look at someone like a
medical doctor where what they do is
hard. Like if you asked me to do
surgery, I'd say, "Oh my god, that's
really hard."
But so a surgeon knows how to do it. So
I I think a big thing that I learned is
in our society, I think we value a lot
of things like willpower, discipline,
hard work, and this stuff is great. Like
don't get me wrong, I think you should
have healthy habits. Healthy amount of
willpower is good. But I think what we
undervalue, which is I think the most
important thing that people can benefit
from, is awareness and understanding. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> As long as you're blind to something,
you can't ever fix it.
>> Yeah. And I see that in just about I
want to say 100% I've worked with about
2,000 patients at this point and I want
to say 100% of them didn't understand
something about their challenges.
>> Yeah. No, I agree with you. I want to
dig into that some, but I want to go
back to you saying that you are lazy.
Can you apply that in certain areas or
do you are you saying that across the
board your default mode is to be lazy?
>> Yeah, my default mode is lazy. I don't
like to work. Right. So I I think a lot
of what we consider work, right? So if
you understand how to cultivate joy,
then it's not like technically I work. I
work about six or seven days a week, um,
you know, I I work a lot. What other
people would call work, but I don't
really see it as work. Like like I don't
know if this makes sense.
>> It does.
>> Does this feel like work to you, Ken?
Are we working? We're not working.
>> No. I tell people all the time, this
beats working for a living.
>> Absolutely. Right. So So So I mean, you
don't look lazy,
>> but like I am, right? I'm a degenerate
gamer who failed out of college from
like playing too many video games. And
like that person hasn't [clears throat]
changed. Like I'm still that person. I
don't like to do things that I don't
like to do.
>> Yeah. Okay. That's where I'm d diving
into. And I'm I'm on dangerous dangerous
ground here taking on somebody as
educated as you. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. I'm a college dropout. Proud of it.
it. >> Great.
>> Great.
>> I don't think that I or anybody that
knows you would say that your default
mode is laziness. I I I think there
would be a lot of evidence to say you're
not a lazy person by default. I think
that what that what you're identifying
is that we all have that mode that we
can get into if we feel lost.
>> So, I've coached 10,000 people on the
air. I'll give more context as to why
I'm saying and I don't mind you pushing back.
back.
I've had so many women call my previous
show and say, "I need help.
>> My husband is not motivated." And as I
would dig in, they would start to say
things like, "He's just" They're
frustrated at their husbands. And the
laziness tag would come up. >> Sure.
>> Sure.
>> And I would gently show them that I
don't believe that their husband is
lazy. I believe he's lost.
>> Sure. And when someone feels lost, in
other words, no vision for their life,
no purpose, no meaning, no direction,
then I do think the de default mode is
to distract oneself. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh with pleasure. >> Yep.
>> Yep.
>> And that's the antithesis of work. >> Yep.
>> Yep.
>> So, back to what you said, you really
believe even now that your default mode
is lazy.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> What gives you that?
>> So, I agree with everything you said, by
the way. Agree 100%. Okay. But but let's
let's be precise with our language.
Okay. You say people who know you
wouldn't describe you as lazy. So let's
start. You made too soon.
>> I'm guessing that that was that was
dangerous ground.
>> No, no, no. Fair enough. Fair enough. So
let's dig into that. And second thing
you said is there's plenty of evidence
that you're not lazy. Right. There's
>> stand by that one.
>> Okay. We can stand by the first one. The
first one's right, too. So let me ask
you something.
When you say people who know you, what
do you know about someone you know?
What can you know about what some with
the people you know?
>> Uh, a lot of things. Big buckets would
be I can know
how they emotionally react to certain
things. I can see how they react.
>> I can know what they value based on the
way they
>> based on their choices they make.
>> You can see their choices. You can see
their reaction. see what they spend
their money on, their time on. I can go
there's your values,
>> right? So, so but be be very careful
here because you don't know what they
value. You know what their choices are.
>> You see their reactions but not their
emotions. Right? You see the signal of
the internal thing,
>> right? I cannot view their emotions.
>> You cannot view their emotions. Right?
So, I agree people who know me would not
describe me as lazy,
>> right? But they don't know what it's
like to be in here. >> Fair,
>> Fair,
>> right? Yes.
>> So, so in here I'm lazy.
>> What do you think shapes that?
>> The me being lazy.
>> Yeah. Or do you think that you're just
you're born that way?
>> I think I was given the gift of laziness [laughter]
[laughter]
and I think if I was hardwork I would
not have had to look for answers in the
way that I did.
>> Uhhuh. Okay.
>> Right. And so now when I think about
like my target audience, I mean it's
changed now. A lot of people watch me,
but yeah,
>> you know, originally I set out I started
streaming on on Twitch and I was like
working with like 24year-old gamers
living in their parents' basement,
right? These are the people who were not
motivated. And by the way, I I
completely agree with everything you
said about motivation and being lost and
laziness there. And we can get into that
if you absolutely want to. I think
you're spot on there. And that's why I
work a lot because I have all of those
things. But having purpose and being
lazy are like independent. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. So the whole point of purpose is
that it removes the need to be
disciplined or have willpower when you
have direction when you feel a natural.
See lazy is overcoming yourself. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Or the inability to overcome yourself. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. So what we're talking about which
I know you understand. I don't care what
your education is. If you worked with
10,000 people and you ended up in that
chair, you know what you're talking
about. Right. Absolutely. So laziness is
like when we think about laziness and
discipline and willpower. That's if
you're lazy, you have difficulty
overcoming yourself. Whereas what I try
to do is craft a life in which the
natural impulses I have move in the
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Obviously you started out working with
gamers. You're a gamer. Big part of your
story. I saw that you said this or
something to this effect. Gamers aren't
addicted to the games, they're addicted
to progress. And I found that to be
really fascinating, you know. Yeah. As
not as a guy who's not a gamer, I mean,
my levels of gaming stuck with Madden
and, you know, playing with my boys. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, now they're gone out of the house. I
don't play any video games. But I did
identify with
that they're addicted to progress.
And I've said this a million times and
I've never really sat with somebody like
you to dive into it.
Why are we humans, not just gamers, why
are we at least close to being addicted
or we desire progress?
>> So video games are really interesting.
If a video game is too easy, let's say I
designed a video game, you tap a button
and you win, >> right?
>> right?
>> You tap the win button, you win. You tap
the lose button, you lose. That's all
the game is. How long do you think
someone would play that game? that long.
>> Not at all. You make a video game too
hard, people will quit.
>> Mhm. So, video games are literally
crafted to be just challenging enough
where they give you dopamine. And I play
this game called this type of game
called Dark Souls or Elden Ring. And
these games are are known for being like
punishingly difficult.
>> One of the most addictive games out
there is this game called Fortnite. And
in Fortnite, you enter an arena with 100
other people and there's only one
winner. 99 losers for every single
round. Why is it addictive?
>> Because when you win, oh my god. [clears throat]
[clears throat]
>> Right. You've done something,
>> right? So So do you think it's we we get
more dopamine from winning the Super
Bowl or winning our first high school
season game season of the year?
>> I'm going to see the Super Bowl.
>> Absolutely. Right. Because the challenge
is so much more,
>> right? So what all these technologies
have done it I don't know that they like
really studied this from a neuroscience
perspective I think human beings just
innovated right they tried out different
things and they found certain
technologies which activate these parts
of our brain and so they they figured
out okay what is the right threshold of
a game because if I make it too hard no
one's going to play it if I make it too
easy no one's going to play it and so
the problem with games is that they do
what life is supposed to do, but they
make it easier
>> because at the end of the day, none of
us is designed to win the Super Bowl.
But the whole point of even the most
difficult games is for every player to
win in the end. And now your brain has
two choices. I can do this really hard
thing where success is far from
guaranteed, or I can do this really hard
thing where I'm supposed to win. It's
been crafted to make it feel hard, but
every game is designed to be beaten.
>> That's not true of life.
>> Yeah, that's right. Is dopamine the culprit?
culprit?
>> No, not at all.
>> I didn't think so. So why is addiction
growing in your opinion across all of those?
those?
>> Uh so so dopamine is just so dopamine is
a neurotransmitter.
>> Right. So it's just a signal in the brain.
brain.
>> And and dopamine does three basic
things. It gives us pleasure.
It also gives us cravings. So if you
like eat a cookie, you will want a
cookie tomorrow, right? So we we have a
very natural if something feels good to
us, we will want it in the future.
>> And then it also gives us behavioral
reinforcement and then we'll do that
action again in the future.
>> So we all need dopamine. If we didn't
have dopamine, we wouldn't feel like
eating ever basically. Okay? So we all
need it. The problem is that what
technologies have figured out how to do
is this is a system that exists to help
us survive. Okay? Like that's why
dopamine is there. But now what people
have figured out is they figured out how
to turn on that switch.
But turn on that switch without any real
benefit to the human being. And and so
it literally is it's like you know if we
think about a drug like um let's talk
about like cannabis for a second. So the
reason cannabis works in our brain is
because we produce canabonoids. We have
we make our own cannabis in the brain.
We have these things called
endockinabonoids. And when an
endockinabonoid connects to something
called an anundomide receptor,
anundomide discovered by an Indian dude
anund is the sun word for bliss. So we
literally have these receptors in the
brain that are called bliss receptors.
When a canabonoid touches a bliss
receptor, we feel blissful. So any time
in life when you feel blissful, your
endockinabonoid system is on and then
someone comes along and figures out, oh,
there's something that you can smoke
that will artificially activate it.
>> Now we've bypassed why does the system
exist? Because it wants us to do, we as
human beings are designed to do certain
things that make us feel blissful.
Whether it's holding my child, whether
it's getting married, whether it's
watching a sunset, right? We have all
these like good healthy things that
trigger these parts of our brain. All
these addictive substances artificially
activate them and now we've got a
shortcut to the end. Right? So if I
suddenly wake up one day and I can get a
winning lottery ticket. If you give me
the option for a guaranteed winning
lottery ticket, why would anyone ever
work? That's how addictions work, right?
They're by they're giving us the same
reward but without any of the healthy
stuff that is really why that reward
exists in the first place.
>> Yeah. So really I mean this is this is a
human problem. It's always been there,
but now we live in this modern time
where there's multiple ways to get the
artificial results.
>> Absolutely. Right.
>> Do you have a couple of thoughts or or
maybe some culprits as to why we're
seeing the explosion of addiction in our society?
society?
>> Yeah. So, I think there's two driving
forces. The first is we as humans are
getting better at taking advantage of
our brain. So, you have all these major
platforms. You even have like, you know,
cannabis companies will concentrate the
THC to make it more addictive. So, we're
learning. People out there have an
incentive to get people to use these
devices because they make money and
stuff like that. So, that's one thing is
like we're just getting better at like
figuring out scientifically how to turn
the stuff on. The second thing is that
for addictions, so addictions do two
things. They give us pleasure and they
take away pain. So the other big thing
that's happening is I think the amount
of challenge that people face, the
amount of suffering that people have. We
see rising rates of depression, rising
rates of anxiety, rising rates of
addiction, rising rates of substance
use, suicidality, loneliness, isolation,
lack of purposelessness in life. A lot
of people don't realize one of the the
variable that correlates one of the two
variables that correlates the most with
pornography addiction is a sense of
meaninglessness in life.
>> So what's happening is we are we're
losing connection with like our
humanity. We're losing purpose in life.
We're getting lost. We're getting our
heads flooded or indoctrinated with
things like social media and stuff like
that. We're forgetting how to live. So,
our natural source of this stuff is
getting depleted and we have an
artificial source. That's why we're
seeing addictions.
>> Oh, wow. Great explanation. Let's get
pretty tactical here. People watching,
listening right now,
>> uh they're hearing all the different
things and we're not judging people, but
we're going to go, "All right, let's
let's take your advice, right?" And
we're saying, "All right, we're going to
replace some of those negative things."
You may not be addicted to any of the
things we were talking about, but you
may dabble or whatever. you medicate
with it is my point. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> What are some tactical things, good
things that people can start to do that
will give the dopamine in its natural
most healthiest way? So let's start with
something really really simple. So our
body and our brain have this capacity
called tolerance.
So I don't know if you drink coffee or tea.
tea. >> Coffee,
>> Coffee,
>> right? But but if you drink a lot of
coffee, it stops working. Like I have I
know some people that you know they'll
have an espresso after dinner. I'm like
how [clears throat]
>> I couldn't do that.
>> Yeah. Right. So, but like some people
like it doesn't bother me. I I can go to sleep.
sleep.
>> And that's [clears throat] because the more
more
>> of something bad
is not really the more of something you
have in your system. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> The more your body learns how to
metabolize it faster.
>> So, I'm a lightweight. If you give me a
single beer, I'll be tipsy at the end of
it. [laughter] Right. But I have friends
who can put away a 12-pack, right?
>> Ain't no thing.
>> So, first thing is that the more that we
use technology, it deprivives us uh
>> of getting joy in other places.
So, what'll happen is if you play video
games all day, reading a book won't feel
fun. This is why people get stuck
because once you get dependent on this,
the rest of life is literally boring. I
don't mean that like bor like I mean
like their experience of reading a book
will be boredom.
>> This is teenagers with their phones.
>> They're bored. They're bored. Bored all
the time. Bored. Bored. Bored. Bored. Bored.
Bored.
>> And what we don't realize, we we think
boredom is bad, >> right?
>> right?
>> But boredom is incredibly healthy for us.
us. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Boredom is when we do a lot of
subconscious emotional processing. All
kinds of stuff happens when we're bored.
Creativity comes from boredom.
So, first thing is the more that you are
using technology,
the less fun you will have. And if I can
go into a little bit of detail. So,
here's what I want people to understand
about your dopamine.
>> Every night when you go to sleep,
>> your brain builds up a store of dopamine
and it gets ready for the day. Okay? So,
the dopamine in your brain, think about
a lemon that's full of juice. So when I
first take a lemon, a small squeeze
gives me a fair amount of juice. Once
the lemon is empty, I got to squeeze
really, really, really hard to get a
couple of drops. Okay? So when I wake up
first thing in the morning, if I do a
low dopamine activity, like I do a
little bit of work or I read or I go for
a walk, if my lemon is full, and I don't
know if you guys have done this, but you
can take a walk for first thing in the
morning, feels amazing.
>> Yeah. Right? It just feels good to go
for a walk.
>> So that's because we have so much
dopamine that even non-addictive
activities can feel good. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> The biggest mistake that a lot of people
make is that they wake up first thing in
the morning and what do they do? They
pull out their cell phones. And that's
like you're emptying your your dopamine
first thing in the morning. And then if
you're someone who wakes up in the
morning and spends an hour on their
phone and then oh my god, I have to go
to work. There's no excitement. There's
no pleasure. We are doing something to
our brains where we are depriving
ourselves from the capacity
of pleasure from work, from taking a
walk, from reading a book.
>> So, and it's it's so interesting. So,
this is something, you know, I was at a
high school yesterday working with about
600 high schoolers and I asked them a
simple question. If I work eight hours a
day and then I go home and I play a
video game or watch a football game or
toss around the football, you know, if I
work for eight hours and then I do
something fun, I have plenty of fun. But
if I do something fun and then I work, I
hate work. Does that kind of make sense?
>> Totally. So the simplest thing that
people can do is avoid technology for
especially the first hour of the day and
then especially whatever whatever you
wish you did more do that before you
touch a single piece of technology.
That's how you be a lazy person and work
seven days a week.
>> So right now the biggest problem that
people have is that we are being
programmed by our devices instead of
programming oursel.
>> Yes. So true. And you you bring up
another very good point which I've been
preaching for years, which is imagine
going to work, and I love the no device,
but let's keep that day going. And you
go into a job
that you're really good at, that you
enjoy doing, and it produces result you
care deeply about. In other words,
there's meaning and purpose in it. Now
you're now you're really getting the
good stuff. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And it just keeps going. And I don't
know if that we could keep the analogy
going, but it's like it's replenishing
the lemon.
>> When we talk about doing work that is
fulfilling, that's not dopamine. >> Okay?
>> Okay?
>> It's not the same as like, you know,
when you win a touchdown, like that
feels great, but it feels great in a
different way from staying up with your
child all night because they have fever.
>> Gotcha. Okay. So, we got the very So,
the the dopamine is definitely related
to difficulty.
>> Yes. Dopamine is related to difficulty.
Got the serotonin is the meaning and the
>> So pleasure
>> and contentment are two different things.
things.
>> That's correct.
>> Right. So feeling at peace with yourself
when you watch a sunset that feels very
subjectively different
>> from like watching you know the
game-winning goal.
>> Right. So one is is pleasure and the
other is contentment. And usually
there's an inverse relationship between
the two. as we are not content in life.
And when we talk about being lost, these
are the people that if you go to a
psychiatrist, they'll diagnose you with
depression. They'll say you have a
serotonin imbalance, right? There's a
serotonin deficiency. There really
isn't. But we sort of feel like, you
know, when we when we're lost in life
and I don't have that sense of peace,
then I fill up that vacuum with dopamine.
dopamine.
>> Then all I have is pleasure because I
have no peace. I have no contentment. I
have no direction. And what you'll find
is people who are content
can tolerate not having pleasure,
>> right? So the more like if you if you
have a family that loves you and you're
like doing well and you're like
volunteering with people and you're
helping people out, if you have a life
like volunteering is crazy. It makes
people feel good, but it's work that you
don't get paid for. There's no pleasure
in it, right? There's peace. There's contentment.
contentment. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
So the other reason that we see a lot of
and that's why I think we we have the
statistic about meaninglessness and
pornography. So as long as you don't
have purpose in life, it's kind of like
this empty space that addictions can
start to fill and you start to fill up
that emptiness with all this
dopamineergic activity, pornography,
drugs, video games. Take your pick.
>> Yeah. And it prays on young men
obviously. Absolutely. They're so early
in life, you know, they're kind of
behind the eightball cuz they're still
trying to figure out what purpose looks like.
like.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> So, that is that sounds like a real
difficult challenge.
>> Yeah. So, I mean, I think there are a
couple of other things that are specific
to young men. So, the biggest thing I
think that is different about young men.
Well, a couple of different things
society, but one huge one is that our
relationship with our emotions as men is different.
different. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we tend to suppress our emotions. we
tend to not know how to regulate our
emotions. So, one of the reasons why I
think um you know suicide rates for men
are four times higher than women, rates
of addiction are maybe 60 to 80% higher
for men than women. And I think that
some of the the reasons for that, the
reason we're prone to addiction is
remember an addiction gives us pleasure
and takes away pain.
>> So, if we look at video games, they shut
down the part of our brain that
experiences negative emotion. Alcohol
shuts down the part of our brain that
experiences negative emotion. The most
challenging addiction that I've ever had
to treat is people who use marijuana. We
don't think about it as cripplingly
addictive, but I've had a group of of
patients who say, "When I use marijuana,
it makes me feel normal. I don't get
high. I get to live life the way that
everybody else does." And when they're
not using marijuana, their mind is
filled with especially anxiety.
>> So that all of these addictions will
take away these negative emotions. And
the reason men are vulnerable to that is
because we don't have as much experience
or practice. And biology is important
here too with regulating those emotions ourselves.
ourselves.
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>> You have some great stuff on negative
emotions. paraphrasing, but you know,
you said some things like don't vent all
these negative emotions. This idea of
sharing it all and then it it kind of
has the reverse effect of what we need,
which is to sit in these emotions long
enough to actually compel ourselves to
change. So, a couple of things is is
let's start about let's start by talking
about negative emotions. First thing is
there's no such thing as a negative
emotion, right? So, let's understand
this. When you look at illness like
cancer, not everybody gets cancer.
That's good. The cancer's bad, right?
But every human being on the planet has
the capacity for sadness, capacity for
anger. And if you look at even primitive animals,
animals,
I don't know if a crocodile can feel
curiosity. I don't know if they can feel
joy, but they certainly exhibit signs of anger.
anger.
>> They certainly exhibit signs of fear.
>> So the most important emotions that we
have are actually the negative ones. And
negative emotions are signals for us to
move away from something. So a lot of
people don't realize this, but sadness
is critical. So the most visible emotion
we have is actually sadness. Because
when I'm sad, you know, maybe if I'm a
dude, I'm like going to be drinking a
beer. But generally speaking, if you
look at a child that's sad, what is the
most natural thing for a sad human being
to do? [laughter]
>> Right? So it's a very loud auditory
signal. We're actually decreasing our
capacity for survival because I can't
even see danger around me. I'm making a
loud noise. It's very visible. There are
tears coming down my face. There's no
evolutionary reason for that. Besides,
it's a signal to other people.
>> So sadness is literally a cry for help.
It's the way that a human being signals
to the rest of the humans around me, I
can't handle this. I need help. And what
we see with men is men who stop crying,
that's when they start dying,
>> right? So when when I don't exhibit
those signs of, hey, I need help. And if
we kind of think about it, right? When
does when does a child need help the
most is when they cry. That's how we
signal distress. That's how we signal a
need for aid. But once we stop being
sad, then we're not signaling to other
people that we need help. But we do need
help. That's why we feel sad in the
first place. So when we numb our sadness,
sadness,
we propagate our problems that are
making us sad.
>> So what's a practical response to these
emotions where you where you challenge
us to sit with them? How how long is
long enough?
>> No. Yeah. Don't sit with them.
>> Don't sit. Don't sit with no no. We'll
get to sitting later. That has to do
with venting. It's a different thing. So
what's the practical way to deal with
emotions? Okay. So how should I deal
with emotions? So, so, so let ask me the
question, how do we deal with sadness?
And then, then I have an answer for
that. And sitting with it is different. Okay.
Okay. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> So, let's understand what's the purpose
of emotion, right? So, emotion does two
things for us.
>> First thing that emotion tells gives us
is information.
>> So, I don't know if you guys have ever
done this, but like I one time walked
into a room
and everyone went quiet and I got really nervous.
nervous.
Now, what's wrong? I have no idea. I
went to a business meeting once with
someone who wanted to partner with us
and I just felt really uncomfortable.
So if you look at like the logic of it,
the words this person are saying are
great. We want to do partnership and
it's going to be great man. We're going
to do this and we're going to do this.
But some my emotion was signaling to me,
right? Because our emotions happen fast.
Our brain processes so much information
that we're not aware of. So the first
thing is anytime you feel an emotion,
you should ask yourself one very
important question. What is this emotion
trying to tell me? Right? When someone
comes up to you, I remember this used to
happen to me when I was in school. I
would get bullied and people would come
up to me and they would be really nice
and that would make me angry and that
would make me afraid because I know I'm
the butt of the joke is coming.
Right? So anytime we have an emotion,
this is survival information that
crocodiles have and it's telling us
something. So sadness usually is a
signal to ourselves that we have a
problem that we need help with. So ask
yourself if you're feeling sad, what's
my problem and who should I ask for
help? But often times we feel
embarrassed and things like that, right?
So we don't actually reach out to people
for help. Guilt is the emotion that
tells us I did something wrong. I need
to change my behavior. We don't want to
run away from guilt. Guilt is a signal,
hey bro. Hey girl, something you're
doing is not okay. Shame is interesting.
Shame is telling us that something we're
doing is not acceptable to the humans
around us. A human who becomes
ostracized is a dead human. So shame is
the way that we stay in connection with
the people around us. Right? What am I
ashamed of? I'm ashamed that I'm ashamed
of drinking at work, let's say, right?
Because if people found out then there
would be problems.
Anger is the emotion that we have to
protect ourselves. When someone violates
my territory, I feel angry. So if I if
I'm like, "Oh, I should be a Buddha and
never be angry. Never be angry." People
are going to run me over, man. Anger is
very important to protect ourselves.
You know what's really interesting? The
largest amount of anger that human
beings are capable of experiencing
comes from the hormone progesterone.
>> So progesterone is a progesteration
hormone. It's high in women who are
pregnant and after you have kids. And
it's really fascinating. So progesterone
and estrogen will go to the part of our
brain that experiences anger. it'll
amplify it and it also shuts off the
part of our brain that assesses risk.
So, and we see this anytime you look at
a mama bear who's the angriest animal on
the planet, it's a mama bear. Their
capacity for anger and protection is at
an all-time high, right? Like, so male
grizzly, you should run. Female grizzly
that is smaller, 200 lb lighter, and has
cubs, you better run, >> right?
>> right?
>> So, first question to ask yourself is,
what is the emotion trying to tell me? Yeah,
Yeah,
>> it's giving me valuable information. And
it doesn't mean that you have to listen
to it, right? You don't have to obey it,
but you should at least know and be
aware what what it's telling. Second
thing that emotions do is they give us
motivation. So now we have a big
problem. So if I feel ashamed of the way
that I look, let's say that I'm not in
very good shape. I look in the mirror,
I've got terrible acne, I'm ungroomed,
I've spinach in my teeth, you know, I
look at myself, I'm like, "This is
pathetic loser." And then I'm like, oh,
I go to a psychiatrist and they're like,
oh my god, you're a beautiful human
being on the inside. Let's get rid of
your shame. Like, don't have shame,
right? No, this is a signal that my you
you should channel that shame. Why don't
you start living a life where when you
look in the mirror, you're proud of what
you see. When you get angry and someone
is trying to take advantage of you, you
should channel that that anger to
towards motivation. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So emotions give us information
and they give us motivation. They give
us motivation for corrective action. I
would add one caveat to that.
>> Having the information is necessary for
having a healthy motivation, a
productive motivation. >> Good.
>> Good.
>> But without the information, we'll have
plenty of motivation. It'll just be in
the wrong direction. Right. So when I
get angry, I need to ask myself, okay,
what what am I really angry about?
>> All right. So let's go back to the uh to
the example you gave us. We're looking
in the mirror. We don't like the way we look.
look.
>> Yeah. Uh what what is the unhealthy
motivation? What's an example of what an
unhealthy motivation would be?
>> Yeah. So an unhealthy motivation is I I
look at myself in the mirror. I'm so
pathetic. Nothing will ever change. I
might as well I'm already out of shape.
Might as well eat
>> a large pepperoni pizza. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> Great. Okay. Got it.
>> Might as well in in really bad situations.
situations.
>> This guy doesn't even deserve to live. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Sadness leads to suicidality. Guilt
leads to suicidality. shame intensely motivated
motivated
>> just in the wrong direction and that's
why I mean your question was spot on in
the sense that that's why we got to ask
ourselves that's right
>> you know what am I really learning from
this and in the blind motivation of emotion
emotion
>> that's the problem
>> big problem >> right
>> right >> right
>> right
>> the other thing that I would say that
that's kind of a a bit of a nuanced
point is that often times when we feel
an emotion
>> something really interesting happens if
you look at most emotions they make our
thinking black and white. So there's
really fascinating. So anytime you feel
angry, we tend to release adrenaline and
adrenaline courses through our body. And
adrenaline does something really
fascinating. It takes our peripheral
vision. Most human beings don't even
realize you can see 180°. So if you like
take your fingers and you kind of you
can see like pretty wide. So adrenaline
collapses our peripheral vision and on
purpose, right? So when I see a tiger in
front of me, I don't care about what's
over here. I'm locking in and absorbing
this 100%. The problem is when it
collapses from 180° to 30°, basically a
cone in front of me, it does the same
thing mentally. So when I get angry, I
don't see all of the possibilities. I
just see this one possibility. So the
biggest mistake people make with
emotions is that they try to the emotion
tells you to do one thing. Break up with
her, bro. >> Right?
>> Right? >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> It it it proposes one solution in a very
black and white way. And then we get
into the struggle with ourselves. Do I
break up with her? Do I not break up
with her? You know, and then we But the
whole point is that there's all kinds of
other options. You can have a
conversation. You can let her know how
you feel. You can recruit her sister,
right? There's so many things that we
can do. When I'm feeling sad, the option
for solutions is infinite. But when the
sadness takes control of us and it has
that kind of motivation, then we only
see one thing. And then we kind of ping
pong between, should I do it, not do it,
do it, not do it. That's not the right
way to do it. What is the what is the
real problem? The the emotion is giving
me information about a problem. The
second thing is what are all of the
options? When I look at myself in the
mirror and I do not like what I see,
what are my options? Option number one
is throw in the towel and eat a
pepperoni pizza. Option number two is
talk to a friend of mine who does work
out and be like, "Hey, can you teach me
something?" Option number three is watch
a YouTube video and start doing
push-ups. Right? Option number four is
get some floss if there's spinach in my
teeth. There are so many options, but
the problem with emotions that we don't
realize is we focus on just one thing,
right? Which is the negative mo we so we
don't want to be motivated just towards
the default thing.
>> Yeah. Right. And and you've talked a lot
about we just tend to jump to solving too.
too. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> And and but that's just really great
advice. Uh okay, I want to pivot to
another topic that that you've talked
about. Uh, and this was you describing
yourself that at one point you were
idiotically efficient.
>> Do you remember saying that? Okay. And
so this idea of just always doing
something, making the most of time. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> I We're seeing crazy stress numbers in
Americans and everybody wanting I mean
whether that be a stay-at-home mom, uh,
an executive, whoever, we're trying to
do so much max out.
>> And I love the way you described that.
What's the what is the recommendation to
get out of that hamster wheel?
>> So, when I was in med school, I was
trying to, you know, do well. So, I
would be like, I want to be efficient,
right? And everyone's like trying really
hard in med school and and uh so I would
like, you know, wake up in the morning
and while I'm cooking breakfast, while
I'm eating, I'm listening to a lecture.
On the train, I'm reading. On the way
from the train to the classroom, I'm
listening. So, I'm just I'm I'm always
being productive with my time. And so
often times we think like, oh, I want to
make the most of my time. I want to make
the most of my time. Which makes sense,
right? So I don't think you should like
waste a lot of time. But I think
sometimes there are a couple of problems
with being so hung up on
>> efficiency. There's sort of like the
I'll start with sort of a more abstract
one, which is a bit spiritual. I
realized at some point that people who
are super into efficiency are
fundamentally greedy.
I want more. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. Oh, you're telling me that in one
hour I could do this much, but I want
more. I want more. I want more. So, a
lot of the people that I work with, I I
work with a lot of people who are very
successful and CEOs and entrepreneurs
and stuff and and fundamentally there's
this greed and every time you feed that
efficiency, you are reinforcing the
greedy part of yourself,
>> which is why 1 million isn't enough.
Now, I want two, now I want three. Is
what are you really reinforcing? Oh, I
want more, more, more, more, more, more,
more. and and that which you feed will
grow. So the more I give into that,
right, I want more. I want more. So I
have a lot of patients that will move
the goalposts. You know, five years from
now, it'd be amazing if I did this. And
then you get that. And then it's like,
well, now I want more. Now I want more.
Right? So my wife likes jewelry and I I
got her jewelry. But you know, it's the
damnest thing, Ken? I get her jewelry
and she's happy for a little while, but
then she wants jewelry again.
>> Yes. So that's why when I say
idiotically efficient, I think you
should be aware is number one. Like
really think about okay, what are my
goals? What am I really shooting for?
Why is this so important to me? There's
a lot of in in Sanskrit there's this
word that we use a lot in spirituality
called vaya which means detachment that
you shouldn't be like you know attached
to things. Like if it happens great it's
okay to want things. I have nothing
against wanting things, but if you don't
get it, you should be content anyway. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Right. So, I wanted hot water before we
we started. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And if I get it, I'm happy. But if I
don't get it, like, do I really want to
throw a fit? And how do you and and
you'll notice that there are going to be
people in your life, and we all
experience this at times, where when we
don't get what we want, we're upset. And
so if you really think about where does
that come from, that comes from us reinforcing
reinforcing
efficiency, greed, wanting more. I need
more, more, more, more, more. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> How much should we all be fighting this
temptation to be busy, busy, busy, which
can mask so much junk? We just spend a
whole bunch of time talking about our
emotions. When we're always busy all the
time, it's a lot easier to to not pay
attention to those emotions. Where does
silence or meditation fit into living a
healthy life?
>> So let's understand something. See for I
don't know let's say thousands of years
human beings have lived in a roughly
similar society right? So if I if I if I
go back to like time around Christ was
around next thousand years roughly human
beings lived the same life. Key thing
about human life is that we had a lot of
cognitive idle time. Mhm.
>> So, we do things like churn and butter.
We'd go hunting. And when we go hunting,
it's not like we go hunting now where
it's like we're going to lay out the
feed and climb into the blind and we
know that the deer is going to be there
at 6:00 a.m. We'd go out there and we'd
look and we didn't have anything to
read. We didn't have any podcasts to
listen to. We didn't have Ken. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> To entertain us while we're on our drive.
drive.
>> Yes. As so many hunters do.
>> As so many hunters do. Listen to me. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Right. And and so the human body is
designed for a fair amount of idle time,
>> especially cognitive idle time. So
cognitive idle time is the time where we
process emotions. It's the time where we
compound our learnings.
Okay? So if you kind of think about it,
so this was an experience that I had
where you know when I was being
idiotically efficient before that I was
being idiotically inefficient and I was
playing video games for 16 hours a day,
20 hours a day and my experience of it
is like you know I was failing out of
college and I knew I was failing and I
felt so ashamed and so guilty and all
that kind of stuff. The only way I could
manage that is I would play video games
and then something terrible would
happen. I would hate going to sleep
because the moment I lay down, I no
longer am occupied by the video game. So
all of the thoughts of how I'm screwing
up my life would come flooding to the
surface. I'd toss and turn for hours
until eventually I would fall asleep. So
I discovered something which is that I'm
going to just pass out. So I would play
until I was so tired that my head hits
the pillow and I'm asleep before I know
it. I I would play I wouldn't fall
asleep. I would fall unconscious. And so
if we look at what happens anytime
you're idle, whatever is within you will
come up.
>> That's what a lot of the more we're
using technology, the more we're pushing
things about ourselves to the side. So
idleness is very important for emotional
processing. So we have a a lovely
practice, not a lovely, a terrible
practice that we do in our community,
which is I I one day challenged someone
that I was talking to. I was doing an
interview and I challenged them to stare
at a wall for an hour and just see what
happens. [laughter] And then everyone
who's watching was like, I want to try
too. And then people started posting
about, you know, like first 15 minutes
the most boring stuff in your life. 30
minutes, 40 minutes, people start
crying, weird emotions start coming up,
right? So when you sit in silence, when
you sit with yourself, right? And we we
talk about, you know, sitting silently
while doing something pleasant like I'm
going to enjoy the sunset. >> Sure.
>> Sure.
>> Right. But then you already have some
default level of enjoyment. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> But if you're just by yourself, whatever
is within you will arise. And so if we
kind of look at the way that cognition
works, you know, if I am thinking about
something, there's no space for what's
already in there. So silence becomes
really really important to understand
yourself. Why are so many people
directionless in life? It's because I'm
getting told by this influencer over
here to go do this. I'm getting told by
Ken to go do this. I'm getting told by
Dr. K to go do this. I'm getting told by
my parents to do this, my boss to do
this. Everyone is telling me what to do.
I'm getting all of this information from
the outside. And then at some point I'm
doing some calculus and then I decide,
okay, I'm going to listen to this person
and then I go do this and then I end up
going to medical school and then I
realize I don't want to be a doctor. or
I don't spend like I just did it for the
prestige and then we have a quarter life
crisis, we have a midlife crisis because
the more trouble we get into is because
we start listening to everybody else and
we stop listening to ourselves
>> cuz this is the part of you that's going
to know do I like being a doctor or not
impressing someone is out there but what
do I like
that only you can tell yourself
>> and that's a voice that you hear when
silence becomes profound Can I make the
leap that this would also help a lot of
executives make great decisions or the
decisions they believe are right? Maybe
not great, but the decision they believe
is right. They can step away from all of
the noise in all the business and sit
and just let the silence tell them what
their heart's telling.
>> I mean, you can take you don't have to
take a leap. It's it's a shuffle step. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So when I work with executives a
big part is like so I don't know if this
kind of I'm going to try to explain but
so you know getting information from the
outside is great >> correct
>> correct
>> so let learn
>> right look at all your quarterly reports
and read about the changes that AI is
happening and that all that stuff is
going to go into your brain
>> but then the answer that comes out has
to come from within right so when I work
with professionals it's about even if we
look at I mean there's tons of science
behind and stuff like the flow state,
right? where the flow state is like
you're in a cognitive state where you're
kind of in tune but you're really here
and you're there and there's like a
melding and and even you know when we're
practicing medicine I mean it doesn't it
doesn't matter what you do even when
you're parenting there are times where
like if you're listening to too much
parenting advice
it's not going to be good right so so
accumulate that information and then let
this voice come out and when I ask
people you know when is the when do you
make I'll ask executives like when do
you make your best decisions or where do
your best decisions come from? Best
decisions come from in here. Now, if you
don't feed your brain the right
information, then it's going to be an
ignorant decision. [clears throat]
>> I have to ask you your take on burnout.
The numbers still continue to be very
high. It's not a new phenomenon in the
American workplace or worldwide. Yeah.
>> But the numbers are still high. Yeah.
>> So, tactically, someone catches you and
they go, "Dr. K, I know I'm burned out.
At least I feel like I'm burned out."
>> What would you tell them? I would tell
them that the weekend is the worst
invention that's ever been made. I mean,
worst thing that humans have ever invented.
invented.
>> Okay, weekends are terrible. Okay, I
love Africa and when my when I was
young, my my dad took me on safari and I
was like watching elephants. I was
watching buffaloos. You know, it's the
damnest thing. Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
Sunday, they do the same thing. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> The weekend, we've done something really
interesting as humans. We've given
ourselves Why do we have weekends?
Because we need to recover from the week.
week. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> So we've created a model. Why do we have
vacations? So that we can recover from
the everyday.
>> So our everyday is overly taxing.
So we're not building wealth. We're
going into debt and we're paying it off
and then we're going into debt and we're
paying it off. Not a good way to live.
So you know, people will sometimes ask
me like, "How do I work seven days a
week?" Especially because I'm lazy.
>> Yes. Right?
>> And and so one good rule of thumb that I
have for people is when you go to bed at
night, when you wake up the next
morning, you should feel recharged. You
should never do anything on a given day.
I mean, you have practically you have to
do that, but try to structure your day
so that when you wake up tomorrow, you
have sufficient energy to duplicate a
good day. Now, oftentimes, if you're
like an executive or when I was in
residency and taking call and working 30
hours in the hospital, that's not really
possible, right? So there's a lot of
practical things, but I think we have
taken it for granted that I can burn
myself out for 5 days. Like I'm going to
just empty myself, recover. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. But then I'm I'm ping ponging
between zero and negative 100. It's no
way to live life. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I think another big thing is burnout. It
really happens. We know that a lot of
science behind it. And and burnout
doesn't happen really when you work
hard. It's when you have wasted effort. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. So, so I get burnt out not when
I'm see I can be on a call for 30 hours.
I enjoy it. It's fun. What burns me out
is when it's 5:00 and I'm ready to go
home and I have to spend two hours on
hold with an an insurance company trying
to get treatment approved for a patient
of mine who has gone blind and rapidly
needs plasma feresis so that the the
antibodies that are attacking their own
eyes can be filtered out of their their blood.
blood.
>> Yeah. if I had a nickel for every time I
was on that call.
>> Right. So, so I think this is where we
got to think a little bit about it's not
that work itself burns us out.
>> And this is something that I think a lot
of young people don't understand. They
they want to just work less. The quality
of the work is really important. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, the other thing that I'll tell
people to do is the way you should work
has three steps. The first thing that
you should do is prioritize the work
that I call is the axe over your head.
Prioritize the work that interferes with
all the other work. Oh my god, I got to
do this. I got to do this. I got to do
this. You know how you have that
thought, I need to take care of this. I
need to take care of this. I need to It
make it just exhausts you. Do that stuff
first. This is where things get a little
bit controversial. Second thing that I
tell people to do is do the work that
you love. Not the work that you need to
do. Do that one thing that you love. If
you want to write fiction, write
fiction, right? Before you and then do
your regular work. So the work that
impedes you first, the work that
fulfills you second. And it doesn't have
to be a lot. You can, you know, do like
30 minutes a day, 45 minutes a day,
paint in the morning, and then go to
your job. And this goes back to the
dopamine thing because when when I work,
when I come home from the clinic, I
don't feel like painting. I don't You're
not going to be able to do anything. So,
you have to prioritize it first.
Everyone thinks that the stuff that I
love should come at the end.
>> That's good.
>> You know, so so give yourself a little
bit of that every day, otherwise you're
going to get squeezed.
>> I love that. That's great advice. I I
don't find that controversial. That
That's really really good. Okay. I'm
going to hit you five areas. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And I want you to just give one quick tip.
tip. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. And this is all about getting
better. So mentally, people want to get
better mentally. What would you give
them a tip to do?
>> Okay. Mental health is related to brain
health. Um brain health is related to sleep.
sleep.
And dreams are really important for
emotional processing. So, I'd say one
tip to get better mentally,
dream. And the most important thing
about dream is anything that you take as
a sleep aid, including melatonin, will
interfere with your capacity to dream.
The most dreams happen between the hours
uh 6 and 8 hours into sleep. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So, you got to hit 8 hours. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Every mental illness except for
personality disorders. Basically, every
mental illness has insomnia as a part.
So, sleeping is the foundation of mental health.
health.
>> Wow, that's good. Okay. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Emotional health,
>> Emotional health, >> same answer.
>> same answer. >> Okay, great. I love that. Uh, relational
>> Okay, great. I love that. Uh, relational health.
health. >> Yeah, this is a good one. Um,
>> Yeah, this is a good one. Um, don't use your relationship
don't use your relationship to solve your problems. Your
to solve your problems. Your relationship should not be your source
relationship should not be your source of self-esteem. It should not be your
of self-esteem. It should not be your source of like personal fulfillment and
source of like personal fulfillment and gratification. A relationship is
gratification. A relationship is designed to do relationship things but
designed to do relationship things but it does not absolve you of your own
it does not absolve you of your own responsibility. I think relationships
responsibility. I think relationships become unhealthy when we start using
become unhealthy when we start using them for things outside of
them for things outside of relationships. My relationship is now
relationships. My relationship is now going to be the source of my job.
going to be the source of my job. >> It's going to be the source of my
>> It's going to be the source of my I need so much validation because I
I need so much validation because I don't feel secure. It's the source of my
don't feel secure. It's the source of my security. That's not healthy. Okay. Uh
security. That's not healthy. Okay. Uh physical
physical >> physical health.
>> physical health. >> Physical health. A tip for physical
>> Physical health. A tip for physical health.
health. >> Walk.
>> Walk. >> Walking is the healthiest simplest thing
>> Walking is the healthiest simplest thing that you can do.
that you can do. >> Certain amount of steps distance that
>> Certain amount of steps distance that you
you >> I go 20 to 45 minutes after dinner.
>> I go 20 to 45 minutes after dinner. Ideal.
Ideal. >> Love it. Okay. And finally, spiritual
>> Love it. Okay. And finally, spiritual health.
health. >> Sit completely still
>> Sit completely still for 5 to 10 minutes. Do not move a
for 5 to 10 minutes. Do not move a muscle.
muscle. It'll be one of the hardest things that
It'll be one of the hardest things that you do. And I'll give people a tip. In
you do. And I'll give people a tip. In order to survive that, you will have to
order to survive that, you will have to breathe in a way that you have never
breathe in a way that you have never breathed before.
breathed before. >> And you will discover how blissful even
>> And you will discover how blissful even breathing can be.
breathing can be. >> Wow. Love that. Great stuff. So, what
>> Wow. Love that. Great stuff. So, what did you learn today?
did you learn today? >> Are you taking notes? And now, what are
>> Are you taking notes? And now, what are you going to do with it? And that's the
you going to do with it? And that's the whole point of these conversations. So
whole point of these conversations. So much I got from Dr. K today. So good.
much I got from Dr. K today. So good. But a great reminder. And this is a
But a great reminder. And this is a simple discipline for me as a question
simple discipline for me as a question asker. So I'm going to take his
asker. So I'm going to take his challenge to ask what is this emotion
challenge to ask what is this emotion trying to tell me? Uh I'm in such an
trying to tell me? Uh I'm in such an interesting season of life where
interesting season of life where professionally and relationally there's
professionally and relationally there's so many emotions that can hit me in a
so many emotions that can hit me in a day and I'm also at a pace where this is
day and I'm also at a pace where this is going to be difficult not in the
going to be difficult not in the question but to stand still long enough
question but to stand still long enough to say what is this emotion trying to
to say what is this emotion trying to tell me? So so good so much stuff uh
tell me? So so good so much stuff uh that you gave us Dr. K. I loved it. I
that you gave us Dr. K. I loved it. I know that our audience is so much better
know that our audience is so much better for it. So thanks for hanging out with
for it. So thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for having me, man. Ken, this
us. Thanks for having me, man. Ken, this was a blast.
was a blast. >> Awesome. Love it.
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