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Brandsutra Talk Session with Benoit de Fleurian

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let me uh begin the session for today

uh good afternoon to all

attending from uh nepal

and of course uh good aft

good morning to and and our colleague

joining from paris uh it is my pleasure

to welcome you all for ad stock nepal presents

presents

brand sutra talk session powered by uh

vinet a webinar on behavior change

communication with benua d fluent

i hope i pronounce your name correctly

it's more as

challenge you know it's still a

challenge even after knowing you for a

couple of years now

uh stock nepal is a premium digital magazine

magazine

which explores the advertising branding

you know marketing industry of nepal

this webinar is being hosted in

partnership with brand sutra

the platform for learning initiated by me

uh since my book in the same name was

published in 2015.

thanks to uh ynet for supporting the event

event

finet as we know is a leading internet

and tv service provider in nepal

it is my pleasure to welcome my friend

benoit the fluent for the webinar on behavior

behavior

change communication i've known him for

a couple of years

as i had an opportunity to work with him in

same uh you know team for an important project

project

and in the process also learned from him

during the process he has always

inspired me with

unconventional ideas and the core behavior

behavior

science approaches led with powerful

creative thinking

a veteran of ogilby paris where he held

the position of managing director

between 2006

to 2014 and together with his creative

partner chris

he accelerated the digital shift for the agency

agency

developing celebrated campaigns for clients

clients

including ibm coke zero and google

under his leadership paris consolidated

its position as the third half of ogilvy network

network

winning global assignment for coke zero

dove hair

duracells among others and enter the top 10

most creative agency in the world

his tenure as md accumulated in 18 lions

and the grand picks at kansas line 2013

invu for that medwa and agency

of the year at the wavy award 2013 and

khan's line

third european agency of the decade

currently he is working as a head of

behavior science practice

in ogilvy consulting paris

benoit has worked on white diversity of

sectors for

brands such as nestle dawg sony

playstation kodak

imperial ford disney

google many others in 2018

benoit was named chief strategy officer

with a specific mission to transform ogilvy

ogilvy

in france from multiple export

operations to an integrated agency

after an executive program at harvard in

behavior economics

he became consulting principal with

ogilby consulting

and launched the behavior science

practices in paris

a bespoke team dedicated to developing

an execution of behavior change interventions

interventions

across multiple sectors driven by the

core belief that the true potential of

behavior science

can only be realized with powerful

creative thinking

the unique approach has reduced on civil

behaviors in french railway stations

discourage underage gambling and increase

increase

caution among the tram crossing in france

france

the biggest behavior chance benoit and

his team have been trying to solve

for the past three years come from bill

and melinda gates foundation

the mission is to significantly

contribute to the reduced

malnutrition in nepal

the ambition is to develop a genuinely innovative

innovative

new model to transform attitude and behavior

behavior

to nutrition nationwide while simultaneously

simultaneously

making nutritious product affordable

accessible and appealing

so he has been traveling to nepal for

last three years

we have planned the session today where

benwa will do the presentation in the beginning

beginning

which is expected to take around 30

minutes time

followed by introduction where we can

ask him question related to the topics

and his experiences

we recommend you to write your questions

in the chat box

and try to read out the queries to him

uh venua welcome to uh branson

talk session once again it is such an honor

honor

to have you with us today we all

are looking forward to your session on

behavior change communication and of course

course

learn from your experiences over to you benway

benway

thanks a lot and thank you for uh

having me with you uh with you all today

you know one year ago exactly on the

same day the

january 27 i was in kathmandu

uh it was with uh with you and your

and your team and it's the last trip

that i did

since kovitz started so it's uh it's

really a real pleasure to be with you

even if it's uh

if it's a distance and it's also a

pleasure because

as uh said

i met behavioral science a few years ago

and since i made behavioral science i

really think that it is a

very powerful tool to uh to use

for marketeers for

for ngos for governments to really try

to change

uh the behaviors of their consumers

their citizens or their

their employees and and i'm really happy

each time i have an opportunity to try

to preach

on the application of behavioral

behavioral sciences

um so maybe we should start the uh

can you start sharing your screen so you

have a presentation

it might be a bit longer than 30 minutes

let's see because i'm i i'm used to talk

a lot

so i will try to to finish at least in

45 in 45 minutes

so the the the presentation is in is

titled the power of behavioral science

because there is something which is

so behavioral science is a lot in many

many conversations around the world

but in fact when you try to

see and [Music]

[Music]

see real applications of behavioral

science in the real life

so whether it is by government or by companies

companies

it's more rare and in fact it's

a discipline that probably we talk more

than we

than we do that we act and and i think

when people realize the power of

behavioral science

and in fact this presentation i will try

to make it as tangible as possible so

there are lots of examples

and i will really try to uh to convince you

you

with examples that you should use more

the power of behavioral science because

it can really help you

to uh reach your objectives in a

in a great manner so

if we go to the next chart will

start with a very brief very very brief

theory of behavioral science so you

should know that

there are two behavioral economists in the

the

recent years that have obtained the uh

the nobel prize

uh in uh in sweden

and uh the nobel prize of economy which

is quite rare for

for psychologists to have the the nobel

prize of economy

the first one is called daniel kahneman

he's still really one of

the the biggest uh name

in the in behavioral economics and uh

and he was awarded the nobel prize in 20

in 2002

and he told us about the two brains that

we have in our

in our heads there is a system one and

there is a system too

and the second uh nobel prize winner if

you go to next chart

ujjaya who is called richard taylor

he has given a name to those two brains

and which is really a great name because

it it really helps to understand

how we are functioning in in our heads

so system one is in fact the brain of

homer simpson

and system 2 is the brain of captain spock

spock

so you should imagine that in your head

you have a homer simpson and a captain spock

spock

and both of them are taking the decisions

decisions

on a daily every day

and omer simpson as you can think

he is really a brain which works on

automatism you don't control oversimpson

it takes decision you don't even know

what what decisions he is taking

he's very emotional he goes very quickly

he's fast he's unconscious he works on instinct

instinct

he is biased and he hates efforts so he

is really

he doesn't think that thinking is

something you should spend time on

captain spock is totally different he is reflective

reflective

he is controlled so you know what he he

he really knows what he's deciding

he likes effort and he knows that there

is no good decision that he is not taken

without an effort

he takes the time so he is slow he is

very cautious

he is explicit he follows rules so it's really

really

two totally different brains that you

have in your

in your brain if we go to next chart

maybe you'll be surprised

because in fact omer is making

much more decisions than captain spock

on a daily basis so we are the scientists

scientists

uh estimate that 95 percent

of our decisions daily are

taken by system one by omer simpsons so

that means that we work

all of us when we decide something when

we have a we decide to adopt

a be a certain behavior we are really

driven by our

emotions by cognitive shortcuts

and not by logic or by really deep

reflection so i

there is something which is great with

behavioral science

which is that we have tons of material

from the academic world so you have lots of

psychologists economists around the world

world

who have really done a lot of

experiments uh during the

the last 50 years so i will show you one

experiment which is very famous it's

called the ash experiment

so it's very vintage because it was done

in the in the 60s so it adds a bit of

charm to the video but i'll let you uh

look at the

the video you will see it's quite striking

striking

if you can play the video the ash

experiment is one of psychology's oldest

and most popular pieces of research the

volunteer is told that he's taking part

in a visual perception test

what he doesn't know is that the other

participants are actors

and he's the only person taking part in

the real test which is actually about

group conformity

the experiment you'll be taking part in

today involves the perception of line length

length

your task will be simply to look at the

line here on the left and indicate which

of the three lines on the right

is equal to it in length so for example

the actors have been told to match the wrong

wrong

lines the volunteer will be monitored

to see if he gives the correct answer or

if he goes along with the opinion of the group

group

and gives the wrong answer [Music]

[Music]

in the first test the correct answer is to

uh one one one

two one

once again the correct answer is two three

three

three three the ash experiment has been repeated

repeated

many times and the results have been uh

supported again and again

we will conform to the group again with

very social creatures

we're very much aware of what people

around us think

uh we want to be liked we don't want to

be seen to rock the boat so we will go

along with the group

even if we don't believe what people are saying

saying

we'll still go along one one

one why group dynamics is one of the

most powerful forces in human psychology

uh one one

so you see in that ash experiment

clearly it's not captain spock who is

answering it's over simpson

and omar simpson prefers to be he is

very social

he likes his friend and he prefers to go

with the group

rather than to believe its own rationality

rationality

so what we are doing and this is really

our job at uh at the the behavioral

science practice of

ogilvy what we try to do is to play with

all the biases the shortcuts that omer

is taking

to make decisions and to adopt beer behaviors

behaviors

again when you hear the academic world

they have numbered

175 175 biases

shortcuts that omer is taking to make

those decisions

and what we try to do is to play with

those biases

to inspire insights and strategies

and creative interventions that will

really have a big chance to

change behaviors on the next chart

we have a tool which is called which is

quite famous

so it's a cool which is called a tool

which is called mindspace

jaya and this is a tool that has been

developed but

by one of the very first uh

intervention agency which is called the bit

bit

so it's a british agency they are now

international and they are probably the

biggest agency in terms of behavior change

change

and they were developed when david

cameron who was

a young prime minister in the uh in the uk

really embarked on on behavioral science

and he thought this could be a great way

to really improve the effectiveness

of the policies of the the british government

government

so we had the bit and each time he was

passing a law he had a problem to solve etc

etc

he was asking to the bit if they could come

come

with non-conventional solutions

interventions to help

on the effectiveness of the of the policies

policies

and those guys have developed a tool

which is it's not the only tool there

are lots of tools in behavioral science

but that one

is quite interesting when you are when

you are in the business of

applying behavioral science to real life problems

problems

and basically what this tool does is

that it's there is behind

each letter of mind space one

psychological level

and basically behind those no nine

psychological levels

you are the 175 uh biases and shortcuts

that are regrouped behind those those

nine levels

so each letters is one level

so messenger incentive norms default

salience priming affect commitment and ego

ego

and all of them are really at work

in action when uh when we are taking

uh taking decisions and what i will do

during this uh this presentation i will take

take

each letter of my space one after the other

other

and i will give you an example so that

you really understand

how this level uh works and how it can really

really

powerfully powerfully impact on our

actions and and behaviors so let's start

with the

m so m for messenger

and you all know placebo it's one

of the most incredible

proof of the power of behavioral science

so placebo it's a medicine

without without any active ingredients

in it did and we always use

in uh in research when we are

researching a new a new medicine we

always compare the medicine with

a placebo to really uh to really uh

avoid to to to be biased by the the

psychological effects of

getting a medicine what is interesting

and i'm pretty sure that you don't know

that number

is that more than 50 percent

of german general practitioners are

used to prescribe placebo to their patients

patients

so you have more than half of the german doctors

doctors

who regularly give to their patients who

tell them they are

sick they have an egg etc they give them

placebo to treat them

and in fact there are two particular

illnesses where placebos are great it's

when you are suffering from upset stomachs

stomachs

in in those cases 59

of the patients who are suffering from

an absence upset stomach

can be cured by your placebo so

everything is in the the head not in the

in the instant instead side or the or

the stomach

more important in the cases of depression

depression

we have realized that one third of the patients

patients

suffering from depression can be cured

with a placebo the placebo will be as effective

effective

as an antidepressant so it's really

it shows how much powerful the mind is

the power of the mind and and if

you give to to a placebo to a mercy son

it can be cured

and all that why because there is a

messenger effect

the messenger it's a doctor in a white coat

coat

and you believe the doctor knows a lot

about how your body works so if the

doctor gives you

a medicine even if it's a placebo you

are convinced

your homer simpson is convinced that he

that it will work

and then he will be cured so messenger

is really something very important in in

behavioral economics

we are heavily influenced by who communicates

communicates

the information to us and those guys

if you have the right messengers they

can really convince you

to adopt a new behavior let's go

to the eye which is called incentive

in cambodia half the population are

severely anemic

because their diet of fish and rice

iron deficiency is the cause of many

health problems and pregnancy complications

complications

like premature births and miscarriages

and even deaths

iron pills are available but are far too expensive

expensive

so we needed to find a cost-effective solution

solution

that's when we knew this had the power

to change it all

we worked out that cooking with a piece

of iron for 10 minutes

could provide a family with up to 75 of

their daily iron intake

the challenge was getting them to use it

they did but just not for cooking

so we had to dig deeper if we wanted to help

help

and we found this a cultural symbol of

and the community has embraced it

our team has been going out educating

promoting and encouraging more families

and the results have been life-changing

after only nine months of regular

medical trials and testing

we have seen a 50 drop in iron deficiencies

deficiencies

and helped 54 800 people

feel healthier and happier the best part is

this is a sustainable solution made from

recycled material that undergoes strict

quality control tests

hand made and packaged by the local

community the project provides

hundreds of jobs along the way recently

received the stamp of approval from

former u.s president bill clinton

the lucky iron fish is now a registered

company for good

giving us the power to help millions of

families around the world

so there is here we are talking about incentives

incentives

and incentives it's a it's an obvious

lever to uh to convince

uh omer to uh to adopt a behavior

so incentive basically is that we are influenced

influenced

by the gains or the loss

that are associated with uh with a

certain behavior

but what is interesting is that the

perception of the gain

or the perception of the loss is very different

different

for romer simpsons and you can really

maximize the perception of the

uh of the game to all the perception

of the loss in in some cases to really drive

drive

omer to take to take decisions here it's

it's a very nice example you give

an iron ingot in got to to families

they will not use it they will use it

maybe once twice but they will not use it

on the long term why because it's the

same benefit at the end of the day it's

really providing

iron uh supplements to the family and

and they know that the family

needs iron and suffers from iron deficiencies

deficiencies

but it's not enough it's just rational

and and it doesn't

really stick in the in the brain when

you do

you form the ingot in in the shape of a

lucky fish so a fish which is really bringing

bringing

luck to the family suddenly everything connects

connects

and and you each time that the mothers

is cooking with the uh the lucky iron fish

fish

she thinks she is really bringing good

luck to the whole family

and and and the the shape of the uh of

the ingot is

really even if it's it seems quite anecdotal

anecdotal

in fact it makes all the difference between

between

using a an iron ingot once or twice a week

week

or using it every day so

you you you need to to play with

incentives and

when we really maximize the perceptions

of the

of the wind it's really a way to to to

make homer adopt the behavior

one quick word on on losses

in fact as human beings we love to win

but we ate much more to lose something

in fact when you talk to scientists

they have estimated that you hate to lose

lose

twice as much as you love to win

so in for for instance it's the same

thing to

to lose one dollar or to win two dollars

to gain two dollars

and so making people think that they can

lose something by not adopting a behavior

behavior

can be quite powerful and this is

something that we work

the next letter is n like norms

like social norms so remember the video

that we just watched

the power of what

the others around us are doing we are like

uh ships we conform to the uh to the group

group

we hate to uh to be different from the

rest of the group

we are social animals we are really uh

very influenced by what the others do so

each time

you can really work on uh

really showing that there is a a habit

which has been

formed in the population each time you can

can

tell to people other people like you are

doing that thing or that other thing

it's quite powerful

to uh bring uh people to adopt new

new behaviors so this is why you all

often see in uh in some

advertising campaigns uh 85 percent of

the people have already done that

it's why it's so important at the moment

while we are

uh starting to vaccinate against kovid

to show that you have big numbers of

people who have

accept agreed to be vaccinated and every

everything is uh is safe and they are

happy so this is very important because

way to convince people to adopt a new behavior

so let's go to the next letter which is d

d for default and again let's start with

okay

this simple innovation got featured in

over 17 newspapers

it generated a reach of 4.3 million on twitter

twitter and 3.2 million on facebook

in just four days this led to a huge

demand for the chalk sticks from schools

and ngos its good grade safety

certification got us our biggest prize

akshay patra the world's largest

provider of school

mythic meals approached us to distribute

these talks to more than a million children

children

every day we are now working

hand-in-hand with schools and ngos

to provide these chalk sticks for free

kids health will now be

sorry was there a problem with the sound

yes i think at least in france yes

so i don't know if it was the same in

nepal but i suppose

so but it's not about i will explain

so basically there is a big problem and

then this is a case

from our ogilvy cousins in india

the problem with kids is that they wash

their hands

before to uh to have uh to have lunch

but they don't use soap it's not in the

habit and

and of course if you don't use soap you

don't kill all the bacteria that you

have on the

on the hands and and it can and it can cause

cause

illnesses later so

what we did it's to

put soap in choc stick

so the kids are using the chopstick in

the uh

in the course of the morning when they

are studying etc

and when they are going to wash their

hands with water

they have lots of dust of chalk but they

have also powder of soap

and so when they wash their hands automatically

automatically

by default they are using soap and

and so we kill all the bacterias that

are responsible for gastrointestinal

intestinal illnesses so this

is a great illustration

of the default level which is

in fact we go with the flow when

something is preset

when something is already almost decided

you just adopt the behavior that is that is

done by default and you don't think you don't

don't

you adopt the behavior and this is very powerful

powerful

because it's something where

when you have almost a hundred percent

success rate

so you you go to a school you give the

chopsticks to the uh to the children

probably before the chopsticks you have

maybe five percent of the kids

who are washing their hands with with

soap at the end of the

intervention you have hundred percent of

the kids every day

that are washing their who are washing

their hands with with soap

so this is very powerful this is a lever

that we use

usually in in organ donation

and it's very powerful lever it's not

easy to use

because it's quite rare the occasions

the opportunities when we can

really use a default lever but when you can

can

it's very effective next letter

is s and s is for

saliency and it's it's another

very basic thing again we are talking to

omar simpson

so omer simpson when he sees something

around him

he changes behaviors for example he sees

that there are

lots of red posters of coca-cola around him

him

he goes to a cafe they are again red

are there no umbrellas there are

ashtrays everything is red

and it goes to the to the to the guy and

he's asking for a coke

so according to what you noticed around

you it can really shape your

uh your behaviors quite powerfully

here it's a very nice example from nivea

in in brazil and it's about sunscreen so

they have

they try to really educate people uh

to uh uh to put more sunscreen and and to

really try to pay attention to the the

damage of

sun especially on the on the kids the

big problem

that we have is that when you want to

tell someone

to put sunscreen more on some sun cream

on or on the kids

it's difficult because in fact you

realize too late

that your kid has been has been burned

so they

produce those little dolls so boys and

girls of course

and the door is used by the

to play on the beach but it has a

specific property

is that it gets burned live

so when he has too much sun he turns red

so you realize at the right moment

when you need to stop going to the sun

or put sunscreen and

and this is very very uh very very effective

effective

because in fact when you see something

suddenly you react

so it's a powerful example of how to use

salience to really drive people

to take a new behavior so science is

very basic level but it's quite a

powerful one

so we need to see to to understand to

find solutions to find ideas

how can i make my brand my product my

the behavior i want people to adopt more

salient in their life

it needs to be more relevant more

noticeable it needs really to stand out

from the crowd and then suddenly you

have much more

chances that your citizens or your

the next letter is p for priming

and priming it's something that

you remember omer sometimes he takes

decisions he doesn't

even realize why the reason why he took

the the decision so sometimes

the process is totally unconscious this

is a famous

academic examples of what priming can be

you take a jail and it's

a military jail

in uh in the u.s so with people who are

really tough guys

you repaint the jail you paint it in a

very particular pink which is famous

it's called the baker miller pink and

baker and millers

are psychologists and it's a pink

that really softens the ambience

it makes people feel nicer to to

each to each other more generous etc

and they proved by repainting the jail

that they had much less incidents

than before so it's a real impact

on the the psychology of the of the of the

the

prisoners another example you play in a supermarket

supermarket

french music people will buy french wines

wines

also because they are the best ones in

the world but if you play

the day after you play german music people

people

will start to buy german wines and when

we ask them

why did you buy this brand of german

wine they don't know

so really unconscious can be quite

effective it's more complicated to uh to

use because it's really if i you

you you need to have a good knowledge of

how the brand work

the brain works to really play with

unconscious cues

but it can be effective remember

loves emotion and and he's he tends to take

take

decisions really just based on emotional

emotional reactions you put

the smell of a donut around and

for sure omer will will go straight to

the bakery

and he will and he will ask for a dozen

of donuts

so this is an example that we uh

did with uh with nestle and it's a moment

moment

in there is a moment in uh in uh

people's life which is very very important

important

it's when you are between two and four

and five

and you are discovering for the first time

time

the taste of vegetables if you start to like

carrots cauliflower broccolis etc

at that age you will like and

love those vegetables for your life and

you will be really a great vegetable

eater if you don't acquire that that taste

taste

probably it will also last for your life

so you will never be

a great vegetable lover and you will

tend to eat the uh

not to benefit from all the nutritional

benefits of the

vegetables so it's very important at

that age to invest a bit of

money and a bit of time and the other

thing that we know

is that if you succeed

in making your kid trying between seven

and ten times

a new ingredient a new vegetable you

know that at the end of the day

he will like the taste he will recognize

it he will admit it

and it will be and the the battle will

be uh will be one

but sometimes it's difficult to present

to a kid

seven times on her in one week

the same vegetable that he really uh

doesn't lie

so we invented those plates that we call

story plates

for instance on the other bottom right

uh it's there is a special plate for

cauliflowers it's not anymore so it's uh

there is a 3d decor and it's uh in the

shape of a plane and it's blue like the sky

sky

and so suddenly the cauliflowers are not

cauliflowers anymore they are clouds

and if the kid doesn't eat the clouds

it will be very complicated for the

pilot of the plane to find his way

so you can and so those plates were coming

coming

with lots of stories so that parents can use

use

to really play with the emotions of the

kid and suddenly

the kid will be uh tended to

to to to eat to try and to like

much more the vegetables just because

emotionally speaking

it will be much more rewarding exciting

entertaining for

for him so affect is he is a powerful

lever too

we are coming to the last two letters of

mind space

the next one is commitment and we'll

now if you're heading to the pacific

island of palau you'll be signing up to

a new pledge

human impact on earth's environment is

one of the biggest challenges facing the

world today

the small island nation of palau was

feeling these impacts acutely

tourists were damaging reefs littering

oceans and poaching protected species

but how could a small local population

with limited resources

police the high volume of visitors what

if we made the tourists police themselves

themselves

introducing the palau pledge the first

of its kind

immigration policy for good all visitors

now need to sign an environmental pledge

to gain admittance into polar stamped

into the passport of international arrivals

arrivals

the pledge is a formal promise to polaus children

children

children of palau i take this pledge

preserve and protect

your beautiful and unique island home to

implement this policy

government the tourist industry and

citizens were brought together

a new visa entry stand was designed and

issued in multiple languages

and immigration laws would permanently

change the job that comes with the pledge

pledge

is the recognition that hey i can make a difference

difference

but we didn't stop at the passport staff

we redesigned the tourism experience

via a website an in-flight film a

passport insert

local education business accreditation signage

signage

penalties and collateral launched at the un

the palau pledge has been phrased by

international leaders and groups

influencers helped inspire people to

take the pledge online

and solidarity was below are you already

seeing tourists behaving

differently the awareness level is very high

high

leonardo dicaprio has been quick to

endorse the pledge

the reaction on social media has been widespread

widespread

the palau pledge has raised global

awareness of the responsibility this

generation has

for the next but its biggest impact is

local intellect

i hope my children can see the beautiful place

place

denver you're mute i don't know we

cannot hear you

yeah so yeah it's

a beautiful very creative example of the

uh of the power of commitment

it's very simple you know you you sign

a commitment officially

uh when you are entering the country

for sure you will try everything you can

to respect your commitment you you you don't

don't

try to to to betray your uh your commitment

commitment

and it's very uh it's very powerful

especially when it's done

so beautifully as uh as in pulau

and the last letter it's uh e4 for ego

it's another very powerful way to uh

to make homer adopt nice behaviors and

look at this

funny example from from china [Music]

[Music]

separating your trash for recycling it's

a simple task really

yet people in china are doing it all

wrong even after 20 years of public campaigns

campaigns

clearly something isn't working let's

maybe if we split the trash into more

bins people would know where to throw what

that doesn't look like or food

yep still not working if you won't sort

out the trash

let the trash sort you out [Music]

[Music]

meet the iq trash cans think yourself a genius

genius

you know what to do all just a regular person

person

well at least you're civilized wanna be

seen as an idiot

hey no one's stopping you [Music]

let's see how that worked out

people thought pretty highly of

themselves didn't they

this experiment was shared online to get

the conversation started

one simple change to our recycling bins

that was

all it took to do what 20 years of

public campaigning couldn't

so very simple illustration that uh

you want to show a good image of

yourself in front of

everyone and this is a powerful lever to

uh to really uh

make you change your your habits and now

i'm going to to

to show you a last video so it's a case study

study

uh that we uh our cousins of sao paulo

in brazil

uh did a few years ago

it's an organic donation which is quite

a sensitive

subject and it's really very difficult

to uh

to change the habits in terms of organ donation

donation

but this is a beautiful idea and and you

will see

i will explain to you how the the

multiple use of different levels

is really very very powerful [Applause]

[Applause] [Music]

okay [Applause]

[Applause] foreign

foreign [Music]

there's [Music]

[Music] um

so it's a beautiful emotional example

that was

really incredibly uh effective in uh

in brazil but when you take a behavior

psychology lens on the uh on the case

it's not uh by chance that they were so effective

effective

in fact they used almost all the levels

of mind space

messengers they used the uh the

football club players to really convince

with power about the fans to give their their

their

their organs incentive there was and you

see in the video

it was such a powerful incentive i can

stay fan of recife

even after i am dead uh and it's very

powerful and it's also

convincing that getting more and more

supporters to uh to recife because even the

the

supporters of competitive competitive

clubs can be

now can be transformed into a recipe supporter

supporter

norms you saw people saw more and more

of the fans

really be becoming organ donate donors

and so it was a another layer to

convince people to uh

to to donate their organs salience

we don't speak a lot about organ

donation in our lives and this is by the

way one of the problems of organ donation

donation

suddenly it's the big topic of

conversations it's everywhere

you cannot escape it affect when you see

mrs josinas

wearing the new jersey of recife when

you see

mrs josina's sons who is really into tears

tears

of course your emotions are really heavily

heavily

uh used to convince people to to be an

organ donor

commitment is very very important as

they say in the video

the family authorization is almost is

always the biggest

barrier you have to fight against when

you are

dealing with organ donation here there

is no more

barrier because the or the family knows

what the the the person wants to do they

have their cards

they know that they are organ donors and

last but not least ego

you cannot be a serious a good

recife football club fan if you are not

an organ donor

so it's really the the combination of

all those levels

that really make the uh the

interventions a huge success

and i think it's one of the uh the best case

case

in applied behavior behavioral psychology

psychology

you can you can find around so this is

what i wanted to uh

to tell you uh today sorry i was a bit

longer than expected so thanks a lot for your

your

for your attention i hope you discovered

a bit more about the power the

incredible power

of behavioral psychology behavioral science

science

and you have probably

seen that there is one common point to

all the cases i show it to you

it's not just that there is behavioral

science behind it but there is

lots of creativity also behind it and i

really believe that the combination of

the power

of science and the power of creativity

is the best combination

to have successful effective

interventions to uh to make people

and i'm welcoming your questions i hope

you have lots of questions

because the conversation is important

thank you uh benoit for your lovely

session sharing your thoughts on the

power of behavior science where

uh you spoke and explained

us the concept of mind space right

with the relevant examples from

different part of the world

uh it was very insightful for myself and

i'm sure

it was you know like always helpful for

all of us

here today in the season uh

i'm sure there will be questions uh

we'll be looking out for that

but in the meantime you know like i take

the privilege of asking you a first

question and let me you know like kind

of ask you

uh a personal question you know because

yeah i've been you know like quite fascinated

fascinated

with what you have achieved in last

three decades

you know in this professions therefore uh

i've been inspired by a carrier

therefore where you transform yourself

from being an

advertising expert you know like to now

the behavior

science constant and as a veteran of

ogilvy paris

working in industry for three decades

now can you please share

with us about the earlier carrier in advertising

advertising

how did you start and where what were

the learnings which inspire you to

um i think it's quite uh

it's quite easy to answer to you it's

the passion of ideas that uh

really animated me during all my career

i was

lucky because when i started my career

30 years ago

i started to work on a brand which is

probably the most beautiful french brand

you can

work on dream to work on when you are an

advertiser it's peri

so the famous mineral water brand and

i i was really a lucky guy because

the first campaign i i was

i worked on with uh on perry it won the

grand prix

in cam it was the the lion commercial

which is still very famous

in in france and i hope in in other countries

countries

and in fact it's it gave me the love

of both strategy and creative ideas

and i think this is really something

that animates me since the start

i i really genuinely do my

uh my work every day

to try to find the best relevant

intelligent and creative ideas that can

really have

an impact on on people's life and uh

and i think this is what a good

advertiser should uh should look for

and then when you try to find the best

ideas and when you are more on the

the strategic side of the of the of the business

business

your contribution to a great idea is to find

find

strategic and goals that are a bit fresh

a bit new

surprising but which really makes a lot

of sense for

consumers or or or citizens

and for that you need to be curious you

need to read you need to

look at other communications etc to uh

and and its curiosity led me to

behavioral science because i thought wow

first this is fascinating and there is a

lot of

interesting things to uh to discover but second

second

there is lots of material here to come

up with

very interesting strategies and

strategies that are really not only

fresh and surprising and new but they

are they could be

really very intelligent

to reach more effectiveness in what we do

very nice uh let me also till the time

we do not get

another uh you know like question from

the audience

i have a second question for between

then i will leave it to you

okay as you know that i also run an

agency group based in kathmandu vendor

and as i study your carrier i see that

you have hated ogilby paris as a

managing director

for almost a decade and during the

process under your

leadership you've also won numerous prestigious

prestigious

global awards including khan's lions

and manners to your like make yourself

the top 10 creative agencies in the world

world

i want to know a secret you know what

are the ingredients that helps you to

make yourself a successful agency aid

as it can be quite challenging at times

especially during uh times like this you

know like

copied as you have to inspire both your

team and manage your portfolio clients

at the same time

as head of agency business how do you

balance between client your agency team

and your life

are there anything that you that put you

awake at night

okay so there are lots of questions in

the in one question but

uh let's start with the uh the beginning

of your of your question i think the

most important when you are

managing an agency is to have a great

great creative partner it's really a

team which is

running an agency and i i've always

seen successful agencies at the top of

the agency

you have already always a kind of team

of a creative guy your business strategy

guy and they are running the the agency together

together

and i was very lucky to have one of the

the most to partner with one of the

the most brilliant creative partner he

he was uh

he he he was uh recently

chief creative officer of tbwa globally

worldwide and he decided to resign to

to uh to uh to create his own agency

so this is the first thing the second

thing is that you need to have

people around you that believe as much

as you do

about ideas and that who are really

ready to fight for

for ideas and so you need to change the

culture of the agency

and this is something very important you

need to uh

to start with a small group and and

progressively it goes bigger and bigger

and bigger

and it's true that in in 2013 when we won

won

and we were lucky to to to win so many

lions in

in can it was really great to work in

this agency because everyone was

at the same objective in mind and we

were trying really to do our best

to come up with with the best ideas for

our clients and to fight with the ideas etc

etc

and probably you need also one two

ideas work in your showcase and and those

those

exemplary ideas especially internally

you need to see the uh the sweat of the

agency you need to

to to see the uh the battles that you that that we want together

that that we want together to really convince our clients to uh

to really convince our clients to uh to buy these these brave ideas the

to buy these these brave ideas the battle

battle with the production companies to make

with the production companies to make the most of the of the ideas to fight on

the most of the of the ideas to fight on the money except

the money except so it's it's a big a big job a big

so it's it's a big a big job a big daily battle when you really want to to

daily battle when you really want to to preserve the ambition

preserve the ambition of the uh of the ideas that you are you

of the uh of the ideas that you are you present

present and this is important because if you do

and this is important because if you do that especially at

that especially at the managing positions then everyone in

the managing positions then everyone in the agency will

the agency will will behave the uh the same but it's

will behave the uh the same but it's true that it's

true that it's quite exhausting to do so uh

quite exhausting to do so uh and uh and sometimes it's complicated to

and uh and sometimes it's complicated to manage both the the the balance between

manage both the the the balance between the work life and

the work life and the personal personal life personal life

the personal personal life personal life and and to be very honest this is why i

and and to be very honest this is why i quitted the

quitted the managing director position i usually

managing director position i usually in in my uh kind of careers then you

in in my uh kind of careers then you continue into other managing positions

continue into other managing positions and you

and you have bigger and bigger teams etc i

have bigger and bigger teams etc i decided in fact to

decided in fact to go to the other to become a consulting

go to the other to become a consulting consultant

consultant and so i decided to continue to be a

and so i decided to continue to be a kind of expert

kind of expert and really to go back to the heart of my

and really to go back to the heart of my the core of my

the core of my work which is uh helping contributing

work which is uh helping contributing to have the most brilliant effective

to have the most brilliant effective ideas

ideas for our clients thank you i think abbas

for our clients thank you i think abbas has a question

has a question i'm sorry i was i have to you know like

i'm sorry i was i have to you know like uh i think you can keep of course hi

uh i think you can keep of course hi hi hi

so my question is you know behaviors i i'm guessing is driven by a lot of

i'm guessing is driven by a lot of factors right you have the culture

factors right you have the culture the social setup sorry my dogs are

the social setup sorry my dogs are talking a lot let me just

talking a lot let me just move around the social setup and a more

move around the social setup and a more sensitive aspect of religion right

sensitive aspect of religion right that's that that basically derives

that's that that basically derives people's behavior

people's behavior so if you're you know for example take

so if you're you know for example take peru for example or whatever

peru for example or whatever uh so there's a certain set of culture

uh so there's a certain set of culture and there's a certain set of religions

and there's a certain set of religions that comes into play

that comes into play when you come to a different country

when you come to a different country certain set of cultures social norms

certain set of cultures social norms so the things that we talked about you

so the things that we talked about you know

know the acronym we saw you know the multiple

the acronym we saw you know the multiple things uh you know the

things uh you know the uh the pink jail we saw and all that we

uh the pink jail we saw and all that we saw so

saw so do you think this is cross-cutting

do you think this is cross-cutting across all or you know

across all or you know are there little nuances we need to take

are there little nuances we need to take care of for example if you're doing

care of for example if you're doing uh a certain campaign in in a more

uh a certain campaign in in a more uh let's say more open society the

uh let's say more open society the campaign will take a different shape

campaign will take a different shape whereas

whereas that same campaign if adapted to a

that same campaign if adapted to a little bit of closed society

little bit of closed society will it have to be you know changed to a

will it have to be you know changed to a certain degree so that's

certain degree so that's uh that's my question great question

uh that's my question great question so i think the theory is valid for

so i think the theory is valid for everyone everywhere in the world

everyone everywhere in the world then the execution really

then the execution really needs to take into account the

needs to take into account the the context of what or of when with whom

the context of what or of when with whom etc

etc we intervene and this is where when we

we intervene and this is where when we really um do very seriously

really um do very seriously try to apply very seriously uh

try to apply very seriously uh behavioral science

behavioral science we always start with a face which is

we always start with a face which is really observing

really observing the people the communities the uh the

the people the communities the uh the situation in which we intervene

situation in which we intervene and we will try to understand all those

and we will try to understand all those nuances that you will uh that that you

nuances that you will uh that that you just uh

just uh approach we will try to understand the

approach we will try to understand the religious context

religious context we will try to understand every

we will try to understand every everything that can really be either

everything that can really be either a barrier or a level to help uh

a barrier or a level to help uh people uh adopt new uh new behaviors

people uh adopt new uh new behaviors and and so we have uh and

and and so we have uh and this is what i'm most interested

this is what i'm most interested in so we have big theory at the moment

in so we have big theory at the moment and we have

and we have lots of brilliant brains for the past 50

lots of brilliant brains for the past 50 or more years

or more years who have really designed developed the

who have really designed developed the theory

theory of how we take decisions how we adopt

of how we take decisions how we adopt behavior

behavior now it's our turn turn and

now it's our turn turn and me you all the people attending this

me you all the people attending this this webinar

this webinar to use the theoretical material

to use the theoretical material and to try to understand how we can best

and to try to understand how we can best apply it

apply it to our situations to our our consumers

to our situations to our our consumers to our citizens

to our citizens and this is where all those nuances uh

and this is where all those nuances uh exist so

exist so the campaign i i i do on recife

the campaign i i i do on recife i don't think it would work at all the

i don't think it would work at all the same way in

same way in in nepal but the the foundations of the

in nepal but the the foundations of the campaign i'm sure they would work

campaign i'm sure they would work yeah make sense thanks uh i think uh

yeah make sense thanks uh i think uh somebody has raised the hand happy rigby

somebody has raised the hand happy rigby uh

uh do you want to ask a question yes please

do you want to ask a question yes please yeah bonzo

so i had a question um because so as someone from the creative industry

someone from the creative industry i would like to know how you come to the

i would like to know how you come to the point of deciding

point of deciding what the pain point of the audience

what the pain point of the audience really is

really is because when you when personally when i

because when you when personally when i think of ideas sometimes i

think of ideas sometimes i tend to go like really off the charts

tend to go like really off the charts especially when it comes to marketing

especially when it comes to marketing services products is somehow it's still

services products is somehow it's still manageable but to

manageable but to find the audience's pain points while

find the audience's pain points while marketing a service i personally find it

marketing a service i personally find it really challenging

really challenging so like is there any secret trick or a

so like is there any secret trick or a hack or

hack or did you just learn it along the way

did you just learn it along the way so the yes that there is

so the yes that there is and if you are into it interested into

and if you are into it interested into the field of behavioral science

the field of behavioral science really you should read books first

really you should read books first because it's very interesting to read

because it's very interesting to read it's uh i'm not a big fan of

it's uh i'm not a big fan of scientific articles etc but when it

scientific articles etc but when it comes to behavioral science

comes to behavioral science it's it's rather uh really very

it's it's rather uh really very interesting readings to uh

interesting readings to uh to to read the uh the authors so

to to read the uh the authors so there is lots of material that you can

there is lots of material that you can play with

play with and it can really help you to think

and it can really help you to think a bit differently whether you think

a bit differently whether you think strategies whether

strategies whether you think creative ideas it will give

you think creative ideas it will give you

you some uh some

some uh some levers some biases some some material

levers some biases some some material really to

really to to think a bit differently but the

to think a bit differently but the second thing

second thing as i was saying to uh to average i think

as i was saying to uh to average i think if you are really if you go deep into

if you are really if you go deep into your

your audience your target audience uh

audience your target audience uh life then you can really observe very

life then you can really observe very interesting insights

interesting insights let me take an example we were working

let me take an example we were working with nestle

with nestle in in mexico and we were trying

in in mexico and we were trying to uh so the subject was trying to fight

to uh so the subject was trying to fight against obesity

against obesity and and especially so to to impact on

and and especially so to to impact on the food behaviors of of children and

the food behaviors of of children and one behavior which is responsible

one behavior which is responsible one of the behaviors because it's really

one of the behaviors because it's really multiple factors

multiple factors but one of the behaviors which is quite

but one of the behaviors which is quite uh

uh responsible for obesity children obesity

responsible for obesity children obesity is that the kids eat between 12

is that the kids eat between 12 and 15 times every day so they have 12

and 15 times every day so they have 12 or 15 occasions of

or 15 occasions of uh of eating in one day when a french

uh of eating in one day when a french kid for instance for

kid for instance for for example you would have just four

for example you would have just four occasions

occasions not more than that so the idea is that

not more than that so the idea is that if we could reduce

if we could reduce by one two three four the number of

by one two three four the number of occasions of

occasions of eating for a child it could be it could

eating for a child it could be it could be already

be already a good contribution to reducing

a good contribution to reducing childhood visits

childhood visits and so we observed the kids and we went

and so we observed the kids and we went from schools

from schools and we observed during the uh the break

and we observed during the uh the break and the guys well able the child the

and the guys well able the child the children

children were able to play football and to eat

were able to play football and to eat at the same time so they were playing

at the same time so they were playing football etc but they would have for

football etc but they would have for example a slice of pizza or sandwich in

example a slice of pizza or sandwich in one hand

one hand and they would eat while playing

and they would eat while playing so we said this could be a nice insight

so we said this could be a nice insight if we want kids to really when they they

if we want kids to really when they they have a break to do sports and nothing or

have a break to do sports and nothing or to do something else and nothing

to do something else and nothing and not have a chance to eat we should

and not have a chance to eat we should invent

invent an occupation for them a leisure

an occupation for them a leisure an activity which is making their two

an activity which is making their two hands

hands busy imagine the rubik's cube you

busy imagine the rubik's cube you remember the rubik's cubes in the

remember the rubik's cubes in the in the 70s 80s etc if you won't play

in the 70s 80s etc if you won't play with

with rubik's cube it's addictive but you have

rubik's cube it's addictive but you have to use your two hands

to use your two hands so we gave a brief to the creative teams

so we gave a brief to the creative teams how to

how to to reinvent uh an addictive

to reinvent uh an addictive okay game for kids but with the

okay game for kids but with the constraint

constraint we want the two ends of the kids

we want the two ends of the kids occupied so it's these kind of things

occupied so it's these kind of things when you

when you you are observing and really observing

you are observing and really observing with a nice uh

with a nice uh uh brain fresh uh brain of a

uh brain fresh uh brain of a behavioral psychologist you can really

behavioral psychologist you can really find inside that we

find inside that we we are not used to play with in in our

we are not used to play with in in our advertising life

advertising life okay uh below i see some question in the

okay uh below i see some question in the chat box as well and i'm going to read

chat box as well and i'm going to read out

out to you yeah uh here's a question from

to you yeah uh here's a question from dixon mahatma

dixon mahatma she's saying hello thank you for sharing

she's saying hello thank you for sharing your insight with us i enjoyed it

your insight with us i enjoyed it the book thinking fast and slow is

the book thinking fast and slow is also on behavior science yes did it

also on behavior science yes did it influence or contribute to you

influence or contribute to you or your work in any way yes it's

or your work in any way yes it's one of the uh the foundation

one of the uh the foundation foundational book

foundational book of of behavioral science it's written by

of of behavioral science it's written by daniel kahneman who who is the first

daniel kahneman who who is the first nobel prize winner so it's the first

nobel prize winner so it's the first time

time in the history of the nobel prize that a

in the history of the nobel prize that a psychologist

psychologist is winning the nobel prize of economy so

is winning the nobel prize of economy so it's really him

it's really him who who brought this idea that we are

who who brought this idea that we are not

not homo economical economics we are not

homo economical economics we are not rational we are really emotional people

rational we are really emotional people and we are taking decisions irrationally

and we are taking decisions irrationally so yes he is a big influencer of uh of

so yes he is a big influencer of uh of the whole

the whole discipline and of uh everything that we

discipline and of uh everything that we we try to do at the uh

we try to do at the uh okay there is another question again

okay there is another question again from amit pradhan

from amit pradhan he says hi since our behavior change

he says hi since our behavior change takes time is there any end

takes time is there any end survey done to study the impact

survey done to study the impact yes so

the uh when we work uh at uh ato v we really try to have an approach

ato v we really try to have an approach which is marrying

which is marrying science and creativity but we

science and creativity but we start with science when i talk about

start with science when i talk about observations this is ethnographic

observations this is ethnographic approaches

approaches we start by reading the scientific

we start by reading the scientific literature to

literature to to understand the brain of the consumers

to understand the brain of the consumers or the citizens

or the citizens and to see what are the biases that are

and to see what are the biases that are most important in one given behavior

most important in one given behavior and then so we have a constant

and then so we have a constant discussion

discussion between creative teams and more

between creative teams and more scientific behavioral strategies but at

scientific behavioral strategies but at the end of every process

the end of every process we try to measure and there is a

we try to measure and there is a basic thing in applied behavioral

basic thing in applied behavioral science is that you recognize that

science is that you recognize that your consumer or your citizen is

your consumer or your citizen is irrational

irrational so it's impossible to predict beforehand

so it's impossible to predict beforehand if your solution will be effective or

if your solution will be effective or not you need in fact to prototype your

not you need in fact to prototype your solution

solution and you need to measure it with a very

and you need to measure it with a very scientific mind

scientific mind for instance we worked with the french

for instance we worked with the french railways

railways last year and they briefed us on

last year and they briefed us on trying to fight against public

trying to fight against public uncivilities and especially

uncivilities and especially about lots of men french men

about lots of men french men who are peeing on the walls of the

who are peeing on the walls of the station so very basic behavior

station so very basic behavior so we we brought the science we add an

so we we brought the science we add an intervention

intervention but we created after the prototype

but we created after the prototype we created a sensor which is

we created a sensor which is so it's a brand new

so it's a brand new kind of sensor innovation

kind of sensor innovation very simple in fact it's the combination

very simple in fact it's the combination of uh

of uh liquids and liquid sensor so you can see

liquids and liquid sensor so you can see if there is a liquid on the wall

if there is a liquid on the wall and a heat sensor so you can

and a heat sensor so you can you can make the difference between cold

you can make the difference between cold liquid so it's not urine

liquid so it's not urine or warm liquids which is which is urine

or warm liquids which is which is urine and so

and so we put the sensors on the the walls

we put the sensors on the the walls where we add intervened

where we add intervened we measure before the intervention after

we measure before the intervention after the intervention

the intervention and we showed that we reduced by 88

and we showed that we reduced by 88 percent

percent the number of acts of of public

the number of acts of of public urination so in a way you probably most

urination so in a way you probably most of you you know the famous example of

of you you know the famous example of the fly

the fly in the uh urinals in skipper airport

in the uh urinals in skipper airport which is one of the most famous

which is one of the most famous so we were even more effective than the

so we were even more effective than the fly in skipo

fly in skipo fantastic yes we need to measure yeah

fantastic yes we need to measure yeah yeah

yeah then the question of shaker as well is

then the question of shaker as well is asking what according to you

asking what according to you is the more important element in the

is the more important element in the phase

phase system mind space and how can we use

system mind space and how can we use these terms in creating a social media

these terms in creating a social media campaign

you never know what would be the most important you need that this is what is

important you need that this is what is interesting when you are

interesting when you are especially when you are working on a new

especially when you are working on a new or

or on a new field you need to really

on a new field you need to really understand the the psychology of your

understand the the psychology of your consumers or your citizens

consumers or your citizens and and you need to think about what

and and you need to think about what would be the best

would be the best the best strategy for for intervening

the best strategy for for intervening but there is no magic

but there is no magic if there was a magic answer it would be

if there was a magic answer it would be too uh too simple

too uh too simple yeah okay uh i love your example of the

yeah okay uh i love your example of the palau please you know

palau please you know yeah and let me tell you frankly i was

yeah and let me tell you frankly i was part of the jury team

part of the jury team that decided to give grand picks to

that decided to give grand picks to palau place

palau place in 2018 at busan korea

in 2018 at busan korea during the at star in the psa category

during the at star in the psa category you know

you know and i i know it went on to win numerous

and i i know it went on to win numerous prestigious award in other global forums

prestigious award in other global forums as well

as well but what we see in that example

but what we see in that example is that the government has intervened

is that the government has intervened to make mandatory behavior

to make mandatory behavior as travels have to stamp and sign

as travels have to stamp and sign on the police you know while entering

on the police you know while entering the nation

the nation is it mandatory that uh for any such

is it mandatory that uh for any such bcc campaign to be successful there has

bcc campaign to be successful there has to be similar intervention

to be similar intervention from the government bodies and if that

from the government bodies and if that is important

is important what are the effective process to get

what are the effective process to get the government advocacy

the government advocacy for such campaign as i believe that

for such campaign as i believe that could be quite challenging as well

could be quite challenging as well yeah so in fact it really depends but

yeah so in fact it really depends but when you are

when you are into uh important behavior change

into uh important behavior change usually you realize that you have

usually you realize that you have lots of stakeholders who have a role to

lots of stakeholders who have a role to play

play in really uh changing the behaviors of

in really uh changing the behaviors of in that case of the

in that case of the of the citizens of the tourists and so

of the citizens of the tourists and so this is part of the

this is part of the preliminary phase of observation of

preliminary phase of observation of understanding of the context

understanding of the context of reading the literature and scientific

of reading the literature and scientific literature etc

literature etc you try to see all the actors that are

you try to see all the actors that are involved into a decision

involved into a decision and if the government and usually they

and if the government and usually they are

are they have a role to play especially when

they have a role to play especially when we are of course talking to a

we are of course talking to a citizens uh the the the subject that

citizens uh the the the subject that ngos are working on

ngos are working on often the government is is very

often the government is is very important yes you have to talk to them

important yes you have to talk to them and you are you you you need to try to

and you are you you you need to try to involve them in your

involve them in your in your intervention but it's you know a

in your intervention but it's you know a political leader

political leader it's uh it's like a ceo of a

it's uh it's like a ceo of a unilever or procter anger all it's like

unilever or procter anger all it's like when you present to them

when you present to them great ideas that you are

great ideas that you are when you have a great power of

when you have a great power of conviction when you have done your

conviction when you have done your homework and you are

homework and you are you have really great elements to

you have really great elements to indicate to to convince them that your

indicate to to convince them that your ideas will be effective

ideas will be effective usually they participate to it so it's

usually they participate to it so it's not

not of course they are a bit more

of course they are a bit more intimidating it's a bit more complicated

intimidating it's a bit more complicated to talk to the president of the country

to talk to the president of the country than to but

than to but at the end of the day and this is also

at the end of the day and this is also one of my beliefs is that when you have

one of my beliefs is that when you have really

really very strong ideas you can convince

very strong ideas you can convince anyone to buy it

anyone to buy it right and you know something else on

right and you know something else on governments and

governments and and this is part of the work that that

and this is part of the work that that we uh

we uh that we did with with you with uh with

that we did with with you with uh with avashia

avashia and the gates foundation in nepal there

and the gates foundation in nepal there is also

is also you should also also think of

you should also also think of a behavior change approach for

a behavior change approach for governments when you are talking

governments when you are talking to political leaders you sometimes you

to political leaders you sometimes you have to change

have to change the changing the behavior of the

the changing the behavior of the political leaders

political leaders it's the prerequisite before to change

it's the prerequisite before to change the behaviors of the

the behaviors of the of the citizens something that is really

of the citizens something that is really important is that they need to uh

important is that they need to uh to put your subjects on top of their

to put your subjects on top of their urgent agenda

urgent agenda if it's not on the top of their agenda

if it's not on the top of their agenda you can make sure that they will not be

you can make sure that they will not be involved

involved etc and at the end of the day it will

etc and at the end of the day it will really weaken your

really weaken your uh your effectiveness so we should also

uh your effectiveness so we should also use

use our psychologic cycles yeah psychologist

our psychologic cycles yeah psychologist science psychological science with them

science psychological science with them because they are

because they are also human beings right

also human beings right right i love your explanation on the

right i love your explanation on the mind space tools you know

mind space tools you know and i have always been advocating to my

and i have always been advocating to my clients

clients on the importance of occupying mind

on the importance of occupying mind space yeah why

space yeah why it comes to brand communications and

it comes to brand communications and even in my book brand sutra

even in my book brand sutra i have reinforced or thought that while

i have reinforced or thought that while products are made in factories

products are made in factories brands actually resides in the mind of

brands actually resides in the mind of the consumer

the consumer and this journey from a physical product

and this journey from a physical product in factory

in factory to an emaze or promise or status

to an emaze or promise or status and a set of responses in the mind of

and a set of responses in the mind of the consumer is all constitute

the consumer is all constitute by our brand communications you would

by our brand communications you would love your thought on the same metaphor

love your thought on the same metaphor for the brand communication you know the

for the brand communication you know the similar kind of

similar kind of it's it's uh it's very relevant as a

it's it's uh it's very relevant as a as a metaphor i think there is uh so uh

as a metaphor i think there is uh so uh ogivi is part of wpp and there is a guy

ogivi is part of wpp and there is a guy who is called jeremy

who is called jeremy bulmore who is uh very well known in the

bulmore who is uh very well known in the advertising scene he's a bit uh old now

advertising scene he's a bit uh old now but he's still in the advisory board of

but he's still in the advisory board of wpp

wpp and and he's really a very strong uh

and and he's really a very strong uh creative mind in the in the industry and

creative mind in the in the industry and there is a quote

there is a quote it's old one uh which which i used to uh

it's old one uh which which i used to uh to uh to use in my presentation

to uh to use in my presentation which is people build brands

which is people build brands like birds build nests from scraps

like birds build nests from scraps scraps and straws okay

scraps and straws okay so in fact we are giving lots of

so in fact we are giving lots of huge signs elements of information of

huge signs elements of information of communication to consumers

communication to consumers you never know the ones they will pick

you never know the ones they will pick up to build the brandness in their

up to build the brandness in their in their mind but it's it's the way it

in their mind but it's it's the way it works

works they have an image of the brand and they

they have an image of the brand and they pick up from what you give to them

pick up from what you give to them and sometimes it's uh it's it's very

and sometimes it's uh it's it's very um small signs that you give

um small signs that you give for instance even the uh i don't know if

for instance even the uh i don't know if you have a problem you call a company

you have a problem you call a company the voice and the first words of the

the voice and the first words of the person

person answering to you may be so important in

answering to you may be so important in the the image building of your brand so

the the image building of your brand so you never know you uh and so you you you

you never know you uh and so you you you should always try to communicate in the

should always try to communicate in the best way possible with the other your

best way possible with the other your consumers

consumers yeah fantastic uh there's a question

yeah fantastic uh there's a question from diksha mahat

from diksha mahat you know she's asking what would you

you know she's asking what would you consider

consider your most challenging project and one

your most challenging project and one you enjoyed the most

so it would be the same because i love challenges

challenges and for so fundamentally i'm a strategic

and for so fundamentally i'm a strategic planner and so strategic planner he's

planner and so strategic planner he's happy when he has a

happy when he has a really big complex strategic

really big complex strategic issue to uh to uh to solve but

issue to uh to uh to solve but i think i would i i would

i think i would i i would have two examples uh the first one

have two examples uh the first one was part of the work i referenced on

was part of the work i referenced on on nestle so we tried with nestle to

on nestle so we tried with nestle to create

create a global movement which was called

a global movement which was called united for healthier kids

united for healthier kids which was a movement really to help

which was a movement really to help parents to change the behavior

parents to change the behavior uh the eating behaviors of their

uh the eating behaviors of their children

children and so we brought lots of behavioral

and so we brought lots of behavioral economics lots of creativity lots of

economics lots of creativity lots of nutrition

nutrition we worked in a dozen of countries in uh

we worked in a dozen of countries in uh in

in in the world we had some results but

in the world we had some results but it's not the big success we

it's not the big success we we expected and

we expected and now that we are we are five years six

now that we are we are five years six years after the launch i'm a bit

years after the launch i'm a bit disappointed with the

disappointed with the the uh the results but at the same time

the uh the results but at the same time there was a huge ambition there was

there was a huge ambition there was really great uh ideas of intervention

really great uh ideas of intervention great science great thinking behind it

great science great thinking behind it and i'm sure it it will help to uh to to

and i'm sure it it will help to uh to to build more successful projects later

build more successful projects later so that was really three four years of

so that was really three four years of my life and it was really exciting

my life and it was really exciting and the second one is the one that uh

and the second one is the one that uh i'm embarked in nepal at the moment so

i'm embarked in nepal at the moment so with the gates foundation

with the gates foundation the the project is called barrio nepal

the the project is called barrio nepal so maybe some of you have

so maybe some of you have heard of it of it we will probably heard

heard of it of it we will probably heard more about it because we are about to to

more about it because we are about to to to launch

to launch a pilot in lumini uh province

a pilot in lumini uh province but there is also lots of uh things that

but there is also lots of uh things that we brought into the the

we brought into the the this project uh again behavioral science

this project uh again behavioral science creativity

creativity strategy uh understanding deep

strategy uh understanding deep understanding of the

understanding of the of the consumers trying to uh to play

of the consumers trying to uh to play with

with very different stakeholders including

very different stakeholders including the government

the government the food industry the consumers the

the food industry the consumers the citizens

citizens working with influencers so there is

working with influencers so there is really a a

really a a very big ambition behind this uh this

very big ambition behind this uh this project

project again i'm not sure we will be successful

again i'm not sure we will be successful i hope that we will make a change of

i hope that we will make a change of difference in uh in nepal

difference in uh in nepal but that we will see in probably in 20

but that we will see in probably in 20 years time

years time uh but anyway we have learned so much

uh but anyway we have learned so much and

and and i'm sure we will have progress in

and i'm sure we will have progress in the in the um

the in the um the way to use uh emotions behavioral

the way to use uh emotions behavioral science influence marketing to solve

science influence marketing to solve malnutrition in the world

malnutrition in the world thanks uh thank you for excellent

thanks uh thank you for excellent presentation on the power of behavior

presentation on the power of behavior science

science where you talk about two brains you know

where you talk about two brains you know system one and system two

system one and system two yeah and if i understood it correctly

yeah and if i understood it correctly you know like

you know like you have reinforced your thought that

you have reinforced your thought that the most decisions are made emotional

the most decisions are made emotional though i believe uh and if i'm correct

though i believe uh and if i'm correct brains

brains are to be used for rationalization of

are to be used for rationalization of the process

the process can you please elaborate further on this

can you please elaborate further on this as i believe this is quite critical

as i believe this is quite critical yeah so the the point so of course i

yeah so the the point so of course i talk a lot about omer simpson

talk a lot about omer simpson but really you should and this is a

but really you should and this is a picture i

picture i i like to give to people we should all

i like to give to people we should all think

think of us and of our consumers or the

of us and of our consumers or the citizens we are talking to

citizens we are talking to with two brains they really have

with two brains they really have homosexual and captain spock

homosexual and captain spock in their brain and in fact if you want

in their brain and in fact if you want to be successful

to be successful you need to to engage both brains

you need to to engage both brains in your activations in your

in your activations in your interventions in your

interventions in your in your approach sometimes you need to

in your approach sometimes you need to talk to uh

talk to uh to amer sometimes you need to talk to

to amer sometimes you need to talk to spock because he has a say

spock because he has a say and if he doesn't if he really doesn't

and if he doesn't if he really doesn't believe rationally

believe rationally that what omer is doing every day uh

that what omer is doing every day uh makes sense

makes sense at the moment he will stay he will say

at the moment he will stay he will say to him hey shut up i'm taking the

to him hey shut up i'm taking the control

control so we need to really

so we need to really and this is also what is uh what i'm

and this is also what is uh what i'm fighting for

fighting for it's to have complex um

it's to have complex um strategies for changing behaviors you

strategies for changing behaviors you don't change behaviors just because you

don't change behaviors just because you have a brilliant idea

have a brilliant idea uh it's it never maybe it worked uh

uh it's it never maybe it worked uh one one time against 1000 but it doesn't

one one time against 1000 but it doesn't work like that

work like that so we need to have complex interventions

so we need to have complex interventions at the same time at the end of the day

at the same time at the end of the day it needs to be very

it needs to be very you need to have one very simple

you need to have one very simple emotional engaging story

emotional engaging story aspirational story to tell to everyone

aspirational story to tell to everyone so this is where it's

so this is where it's it's also our our work and when it makes

it's also our our work and when it makes it

it complex and exciting we need to have

complex and exciting we need to have sophisticated strategies

sophisticated strategies but at the end of the day you need to

but at the end of the day you need to have one

have one one single emotional

one single emotional and great story to tell to everyone

one example remember when when jfk in the early 60s told to the american

in the early 60s told to the american people

people let's go to the moon it was a very very

let's go to the moon it was a very very simple story

simple story he told to everyone we can go to the

he told to everyone we can go to the moon and

moon and and we choose that because it's

and we choose that because it's difficult etc so

difficult etc so there was one simple story but at the

there was one simple story but at the same time there was

same time there was so much complexity around to make it

so much complexity around to make it happen and it has so much

happen and it has so much it had so much consequences on the

it had so much consequences on the american society etc

american society etc it was probably a great behavior change

it was probably a great behavior change idea

idea right so i see another question from

right so i see another question from prakas

prakas karna he's asking he's saying thank you

karna he's asking he's saying thank you for the great insights

for the great insights most of the example directly solve the

most of the example directly solve the social issues around the world

social issues around the world but besides that how can we apply the

but besides that how can we apply the same

same for the day-to-day use products the ones

for the day-to-day use products the ones that are already in use

that are already in use do you need to re-establish the product

do you need to re-establish the product using the strategy

uh you can work with everything yes you can uh

you can there are lots of issues at the moment

moment with sustainable sustainable development

with sustainable sustainable development uh

uh so you want the people to recycle you

so you want the people to recycle you want to

want to so there are tons of questions that

so there are tons of questions that really

really make behavioral science apply to uh

make behavioral science apply to uh to the the daily products we are we are

to the the daily products we are we are using

using in fact the good question and this is a

in fact the good question and this is a question i always ask

question i always ask to uh to my clients and

to uh to my clients and and if they say yes this is a client for

and if they say yes this is a client for us if they say no

us if they say no it's not for us do you have

it's not for us do you have a behavior that you want a consumer

a behavior that you want a consumer behavior that you want to change

behavior that you want to change do you want your consumers to use your

do you want your consumers to use your product differently

product differently do you want them to use your product in

do you want them to use your product in a certain way

a certain way and if you say yes to that to that

and if you say yes to that to that question

question then we we can use behavioral psychology

then we we can use behavioral psychology let me take an example it's uh

let me take an example it's uh from unilever it's the uh the brand of

from unilever it's the uh the brand of mayonnaise which is a sauce which is

mayonnaise which is a sauce which is called helmans

called helmans so they introduce in brazil but in

so they introduce in brazil but in brazil you don't eat mayonnaise

brazil you don't eat mayonnaise so it was a very small brand and it was

so it was a very small brand and it was just

just in the cupboard of maybe the high class

in the cupboard of maybe the high class that has have traveled around etc

that has have traveled around etc and and and they said if we want to be

and and and they said if we want to be big in brazil

big in brazil we need to build a habit

we need to build a habit of consuming regularly mayonnaise

of consuming regularly mayonnaise with your food how can we do that and

with your food how can we do that and it's always create difficult to create

it's always create difficult to create habits

habits except if you add on an existing habit

except if you add on an existing habit so what is the most important popular

so what is the most important popular habit

habit in uh in brazil when it comes to cooking

in uh in brazil when it comes to cooking it's to cook bisteke bolas hasse bolado

it's to cook bisteke bolas hasse bolado so it's basically

so it's basically the the the basic beef tag but you use

the the the basic beef tag but you use it

it you use it we you cook it with with

you use it we you cook it with with onions

onions and in fact they augmented the recipe

and in fact they augmented the recipe of bistekie acerola by adding mayonnaise

of bistekie acerola by adding mayonnaise and they created a sauce which was

and they created a sauce which was really delicious

really delicious which was really improving the favorite

which was really improving the favorite taste

taste of brazilian families and this is

of brazilian families and this is how they entered into the market and now

how they entered into the market and now almanz is really big

almanz is really big in brazil so it was a nice way to really

in brazil so it was a nice way to really think uh in terms of behavioral

think uh in terms of behavioral psychology

psychology how can i can how can i make my product

how can i can how can i make my product usage

usage really very common daily in in brazilian

really very common daily in in brazilian families

families fantastic as you've been traveling to

fantastic as you've been traveling to nepal

nepal often in last three years you know and i

often in last three years you know and i just

just like because it seems that most of the

like because it seems that most of the questions are over

questions are over uh any parting note for the marketeers

uh any parting note for the marketeers in nepal

in nepal what are the areas we should improve to

what are the areas we should improve to do some great advertising work or

do some great advertising work or a work that is related to bcc

a work that is related to bcc communications as well

um i think i would have four advices for you

one which comes from david ogilvy david o'keefe

o'keefe created a culture of divine discontent

created a culture of divine discontent in his agency so you are never happy

in his agency so you are never happy with your idea

with your idea it can always be improved it can be

it can always be improved it can be better it can be more effective etc

better it can be more effective etc and i think this is something that i

and i think this is something that i i i don't have a big experience of of

i i don't have a big experience of of nepal

nepal but i think what i felt is that maybe

but i think what i felt is that maybe you are

you are happy too quickly about your ideas you

happy too quickly about your ideas you don't challenge enough yourself etc you

don't challenge enough yourself etc you don't challenge your ideas

don't challenge your ideas and i think you would gain into a into

and i think you would gain into a into being a bit more

being a bit more discontent about your your ideas but

discontent about your your ideas but the second thing is that i think

the second thing is that i think a good agency is an agency who knows how

a good agency is an agency who knows how to fight

to fight with his clients right he felt that

with his clients right he felt that there is a culture

there is a culture in nepal which makes it very difficult

in nepal which makes it very difficult when you have a client to disagree with

when you have a client to disagree with him

him i think there is a question of bravery

i think there is a question of bravery and frankly

and frankly you need to be brave in advertising it's

you need to be brave in advertising it's not when you have big ideas

not when you have big ideas often it's they are

often it's they are a bit complicated to uh to buy

a bit complicated to uh to buy it's there is a level of risk etc

it's there is a level of risk etc and so if you cannot fight you you

and so if you cannot fight you you cannot

cannot succeed with big big ideas

succeed with big big ideas the third thing would be to uh really be

the third thing would be to uh really be curious

curious and this is why it's great to have this

and this is why it's great to have this webinar today it's great

webinar today it's great the the the

the the the [Music]

[Music] the spirit that you have in our treats

the spirit that you have in our treats because you feel it with everyone you

because you feel it with everyone you are really open to discussion you want

are really open to discussion you want to know more

to know more it is great with that stock this is

it is great with that stock this is really what they are doing which is

really what they are doing which is making opening nepal to other cultures

making opening nepal to other cultures of advertising ideas etc

of advertising ideas etc and i think this is very important it's

and i think this is very important it's the the the the basics

the the the the basics of a good advertising agency of a good

of a good advertising agency of a good advertiser you need to really have a

advertiser you need to really have a great

great advertising culture a culture of ideas

advertising culture a culture of ideas you need to

you need to look at them think why are

look at them think why are what are the ideas i would have loved to

what are the ideas i would have loved to uh to come up with etc

uh to come up with etc so there is a culture but the last

so there is a culture but the last advice would be

advice would be to use to be authentic to yourself

to use to be authentic to yourself i found uh uh when i

i found uh uh when i so i had come to nepal 15 days 15 years

so i had come to nepal 15 days 15 years ago

ago as a tourist but so it's very different

as a tourist but so it's very different to come back and to work with people and

to come back and to work with people and to meet

to meet really more deeply uh people

really more deeply uh people and i felt that you are a beautiful

and i felt that you are a beautiful people you are

people you are like some some particularities

like some some particularities which make that you are quite open you

which make that you are quite open you are

are generous with other people you are

generous with other people you are really

really open to other uh opinions differences

open to other uh opinions differences the way for example you treat the

the way for example you treat the religions in nepal

religions in nepal it's incredible it's the only country

it's incredible it's the only country where a muslim and a buddhist and a

where a muslim and a buddhist and a christian can be friends and there is no

christian can be friends and there is no problem talking religions

problem talking religions together so there is something which is

together so there is something which is really uh

really uh really great uh and and i think

really great uh and and i think the day you really use all those

the day you really use all those great human traits of

great human traits of of nepal i'm sure you will be you can

of nepal i'm sure you will be you can you can be a great

you can be a great a great country in on the advertising

a great country in on the advertising scene you see foreign

scene you see foreign if you look at the the way you do

if you look at the the way you do advertising in britain

advertising in britain in france in south africa in brazil it's

in france in south africa in brazil it's totally different

totally different and when there is a great uh culture of

and when there is a great uh culture of advertising it's when you

advertising it's when you really find those deep roots

really find those deep roots very authentic ways that you you you

very authentic ways that you you you behave in your country

behave in your country and i would love to see nepalese

and i would love to see nepalese culture a bit more india in the

culture a bit more india in the advertising

advertising yes thank you benoit for those kind

yes thank you benoit for those kind words and thank you for

words and thank you for being with us today and sharing your

being with us today and sharing your thoughts

thoughts on the power of behavior science where

on the power of behavior science where you spoke and explain

you spoke and explain us the concept of mind space with the

us the concept of mind space with the relevant examples from different parts

relevant examples from different parts of the world

of the world i'll quickly want to summarize our five

i'll quickly want to summarize our five key learnings for today

key learnings for today we are influenced by uh who communicates

we are influenced by uh who communicates the informations

the informations we are influenced by what our action

we are influenced by what our action will make

will make us gain or lose we are

us gain or lose we are strongly influenced by what others do

strongly influenced by what others do our emotional association can

our emotional association can powerfully save our actions

powerfully save our actions and we act in ways that make us feel

and we act in ways that make us feel better about ourselves so these are the

better about ourselves so these are the five key learnings

five key learnings i'm taking from this session from today

i'm taking from this session from today i'm sure

i'm sure all of us here i have also had lot of

all of us here i have also had lot of learnings

learnings from between uh thank you ben y again

from between uh thank you ben y again have for supporting this event

have for supporting this event and all the participants for your

and all the participants for your enthusiasm

enthusiasm it has been a good learning for all of

it has been a good learning for all of us today

us today thank you it was a pleasure to be uh to

thank you it was a pleasure to be uh to be with you

be with you with you all thanks a lot

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YouTube Transcript:Brandsutra Talk Session with Benoit de Fleurian

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Brandsutra Talk Session with Benoit de Fleurian