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This content is a discussion among enthusiasts about the "Thrill of the Chase" (TTOC) treasure hunt, focusing on insights gained from the finder, Jack, and exploring various theories and aspects of the hunt, including the nature of clues, the location, and the finder's experience.

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[Laughter]

Oh, there we are.

See, you found the thingamajigger. Congratulations.

Congratulations.

I did find it.

All right, everyone. Welcome to Amy

Seeks, where we discuss all things aha

moment, including games, puzzles, and a

strong e emphasis uh oh armchair

treasure hunts. And tonight, we're

talking about Jack Stoof, the finder of

the Forest Fen treasure hunt. And let's

see if we're actually live. Oh, look at

that. There we are. I see us.

You nailed it.

Nailed it.

Let us know how audio is, everyone, and

we'll try and adjust it on the fly. Um,

let's see here. And don't forget to

thumbs up or thumbs down and click

subscribe. And this episode is being

brought to you by Tubthumpers. That's Tubthumpers

Tubthumpers

with the Great US Treasure Hunt. Thank

you very much, Tub Thumpers.

All right, guys. Well, tonight we've got

obviously we're discussing all the

emails. I've got uh five questions that

were answered by Jack that I'll be

sharing with you guys tonight. And um

yeah, I guess we go from there.

Okay. Oh, I'm getting texts, too. All

right, guys. Um so, Jack Stef has been

emailing everybody. I don't know anyone

he's turned down. I mean, he's he's like

the, you know, and his responses are so

Forest Fenike. It's been kind of crazy.

So, and he's Now, Cynthia, you haven't

tried to email him yet, have you?

Oh, I did. Yes,

you did. Okay. And

but I did not ask him any questions.

Oh, you were just being nice and not not

like us.

Yeah, sort of. Yes.

Good to know. All right, we've got Oh,

hey, Alan K. Low key big Baldi and

Wrongway Corgan. How's it going, guys?

And what's this? Okay, free.

I have no idea what that text was. So,

all right. Should we jump into like

honestly I have not actually looked at

or analyzed the responses from that I

had gotten yet. Should we like jump

right in? Sure.

Sure. Okay.

Okay.

Unless Unless Justin wants to tell jokes.

jokes.

Tell us your joke, Justin. Just

because it's a good one.

That's a one too many sidecar drinks

later. Uh I mean, this joke probably

exists. It was just something that I

felt I don't know, special that I made

up, but probably already exists.

We liked it. We liked it.

Okay. Oh, wow. I can't even believe I'm

going to tell this joke. I mean, it's a

pun. Um

Okay. Uh well uh what do you call a uh a

sloth having sex?

I don't know what what

what

it's uh it's a slow poke.

Did anyone unsubscribe after that?

Did the numbers go down?

Oh my god. I'm down to six. Oh no. 500.

Oh 400 subscribers.

It's dropping by the second. And Justin,

your audio is a little low.

I don't know if you if you can bring

that up a bit. At least it is for me.

Let me know in the chat room. Hey, Tom

Walker is in the room.

Hey, Tom.

Watch out for those low hanging sheep

balls, Tom. Tom,

just saying. Just saying.

Who else do we have? We've got Lucky

Digger, Brian Gates, Gregor. Oh, we have

tons of people. Hi, guys. Welcome.

Oh, so many people. Hello, everybody.

All right, let's jump in. Here we So,

I'm going to go ahead and share screen.

Here we go.

Okay. The first question, will you let

us know the fate of the chest once you

have determined it perhaps through

medium or will we need to keep our ears

to the ground listening for any news?

And he simply answered yes. So, I'm

assuming that as soon as he knows, he's

going to go ahead and let us know so

that we don't have to keep, you know,

being like, have you sold it yet? What's

going on? What's going on? What's right?

So we can let him go. All right. So the

next up and hopefully you guys can see

this. Okay.

Question number two. You have kindly

ruled out a few things like GPS that

will not help a sinker solve TTOC.

Can you bring to light what else is not

helpful or involved? Perhaps things you

saw other seekers use that were not

required or helpful. His answer is A2.

Straightforward with no subdurfuge in

sight. dang it is very important to

remember and probably rules out a

majority of solves. The poem is written

from his perspective just like any of

his other poems. And he's not trying to

trick anyone or create the world's

greatest puzzle or be clever. It's

befitting the man. And you do have to

study him, I think, to definitively

figure it out.

Seems reasonable.

But Forest was always such a fan of the

clever thing, you know? He just loved

that. I just

Yeah, Forest was such a wordssmith. So,

um, well, I guess we should believe Jack

since he's the guy with the chest. And

uh you know, one of the most important

things or the thing that's going to be

the most difficult for me is to get rid

of any confirmation bias.

Was such a wordsmith. So

yeah. Um

Oh, sorry. Hold on.

Why am I hearing that? That's probably me.

me.

Let me check.

You know, one of the most important

things or the thing that's going to be

the most difficult for me is I can't

I don't have anything else on. Okay.

Okay.

Why am I

hold on a second everyone?

I'll try and locate the most important things.

things.

Huh? I don't see it anywhere, but I know

it's there.

Let me unhook my headphones. Okay. Okay.

Okay.

What if it's

I don't have anything else on

If you just muted right quick, you'd be

able to know whether or not it's you.

I'll try. I suspect it's Amy because she

doesn't have headphones on. So, yeah.

Oh, I've got earbuds.

Oh, okay.

But my headphones.

I wish I could find it somewhere.

Are you guys getting an echo in the chat

room? Let us know.

Can you hear me now without being

plugged into the headphones? I've still

got the

Well, my headphones aren't hooked up

anymore. So, now it's using my computer audio.

audio.

All right, let us know in chat if you

guys are getting the same echo that we

are cuz we're hearing ourselves and it's crazy.

crazy.

Cynthia, do you have the YouTube channel

up right now?

Uh, no, I don't.

Yay. Did we fix it?

I fixed it. I totally fixed it. That was

all me.

It didn't just

I was like, "Wow, that's pretty impressive."

impressive."

I love technology so much. Oh jeez.

Really? It just magically stopped.

Yeah. How about that?

Woohoo. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, okay.

So, should we move on to the next one?

Are we ready? Sure.

Sure.

Okay. Yeah.

All right. And I will

Here we go. Share screen again. Next question.

See if I can find it. Hold on.

Is there still music playing?

Uh, that's from me. Is it too loud?

No, not no. I just thought I was hearing things.

things. Okay,

I'm gonna hire an IT guy. Same guy from Blackbeard.

Blackbeard.

Oh my god, I went there. Oh my god.

Well, I'm going to hell. Maybe I'll just drive.

drive.

Okay. All right. Here we go.

Oh, and I see very important. Hi, Amy.

Hi. Very important. You're very

important VIP. Okay. Next question.

What was that process like of finding

the chest, contacting Forest to retrieve

it, and then going back for it, and

heading for Santa Fe? We're assuming

that you left the chest to go ask for

permission due to the instructions found

in the chest. And how difficult was it

to leave the chest after finding it to

get permission? Jack responds, "Not

difficult at all." But I understand why

that surprises some people. It was

sitting in just about the safest place

in the world for it. Nobody had found it

in those years there. I stood I had

stood within six feet of it early in the

search season in 2019 without finding

it. So, I doubted anyone else would find

it after I left it there just like it

had been.

Wow.

What do you guys think about that one?

I could envision that. I mean, you know,

it's it's a very small item all things

considered. I could completely imagine

standing six feet away and not being

able to see it. Yeah.

But what about the time? So, does that

mean so now I'm confused regarding the

blaze though? So, back back when Forest

was answering questions on Jenny's site

and other stuff, someone Hey Matt,

someone um said about the blaze and he

said it's not likely you would get

within 12 feet of it and not find it.

So, maybe that just means that Jack,

well, you know, the blaze supposedly was

damaged. I mean, we don't really know

the story of behind the blaze and what

Jack has talked about the blaze. I

always thought that if you were a

searcher looking for the treasure chest

and not just some random hunter or

whatever walking by that if you were

really looking for it and you found the

blaze that you'd be able to find it. But

um H that's that's interesting.

Want me to share the screen again so you

guys can talk about it?

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. And so Matt can see it, too.

Well, you you guys jumped right in. I

thought I was going to miss all the

small talk and I would jump in and we

would we would go, but uh All right, I'm

catching up.

We don't mess around here. Where are you

in question three? What?

It's incredible to think that he was six

feet away of it early on in the search and

and

didn't know it was there.

That combined with I saw an answer

somewhere else where he had said that

it's totally reasonable as I understood

it that folks had been within a couple

hundred feet of the of the chest without

knowing it's it was there. I mean that

uh it it just it bothers me. I just hope

I wasn't that person.

So, does that mean that does that mean

that the last seven clues then are so

ambiguous or so

abstract to understanding what they are that

that

Wow. Okay, Justin, this might take us

longer than we thought.

Well, I I

what I was telling you earlier

uh today, Amy, um

this idea, he says he stood within six

feet of it early in the search uh season

in 2019.

So, he remembers being there and then he

he kind of moved on.

He m either the next day, the rest of

the week, the next time he came back, he

just remembers that one time when he was

there. Like he he was still just sort of

working this

whatever football fields sized area or

something. That's that's what I have in

my mind. I have a a sizable area.

Yeah. and uh he remembers being over

there and he was close, but then he

moved on,

you know, and and so that that to me

that raises a lot of questions like

you're talking about Cynthia, like what

about all these other clues? And how

could he be six feet away? What wouldn't

the blaze the real blaze be right there?

Isn't that what we all assume? It's

right over it.

Guess I imagined the blaze potentially

being at a distance and it's just sort

of a reference point. Like let's say

you're down in a canyon and you look up

to the top of the canyon and there's

something formidable there that is kind

of your reference point and you look

down from there and that kind of gives

you the, you know, the the slice of the

canyon to look in, if you will. But what

do I know?

The potential that the blaze is up high

when you're at the place and somehow you

zero in on it and then look straight down.

down.

Yeah. I mean that that might be an

interesting question to pose to Jack

though was, you know, just generally

speaking, how large was the area that he

was focusing on? I mean, are we talking

football field sized? Are we talking,

you know, something considerably

smaller? I I'd love to know.

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah.

How large was the area?

I mean,

well, so Justin, maybe that first time

Jack was at the nook, he never looked on

the other side of those trees with the notches.

Well, that that's interesting. What it

what the safest place in the world?

You know, we've all we've all spent a

lot of time in the mountains. We know

that we're we're not dealing with a an

unlimited number of possibilities. I mean,

mean, sure.

sure.

You know, I What What's the safest place

in the world? What does that look like?

Safe from safe from eyes. Safe from eyes

that are looking for it.

Oh, that's that's a good point. I mean,

I guess when I was thinking safe, I was

thinking more like

the ability for some sort of natural,

you know, force to cause damage to it.

So, you know, say that it was in a, you

know, a large open field on a plateau,

like that seems fairly safe. You're not

going to have a flooding concern. Uh, if

it's in the middle of the plateau,

you're not going to worry so much about

erosion or or landslides or anything to

that effect. And if there's not a lot of

trees around, fire damage is less

concerning. I I don't know. I mean, I'm

really curious to know what he means by that.

that.

Alan K brings up a great point. Um, and

I see all the Amy Seeks as well. Um, you

have to knowingly go within a few steps,

quote unquote. Um, the that info makes

it sound like it was a very public

place. Um, all the clues with the within

Wyoming. So, why is that that I must go?

Why? Um, Davio, hey Davio, I hopefully

you saw my comment on your video. Um,

Davio says, I sound less abstract. And

then Jack had discovered the correct

home of Brown. And um Alan K says the

fake blaze was 1,000 ft away. That's

three plus football fields, right?

right?

Yeah. I I thought about that when we

were I don't know why I said football

field, but I did. But um when he um

It's because you're a big fan. when he

the the fake blaze confused him and it I

think it confused him because he knew he

was in the general area. So

I I think it's safe to assume that both

the fake blaze and the real damaged

blaze were in the same general area

whatever that is. So a thousand feet.

Yeah. Three football fields. It's a big

it's a big place to look around.

Did anybody has anybody asked if he used

a metal detector?

I was thinking about that. So, let us

know in the chat if you if anyone has

asked him if he used a metal detector.

We do know though from the Q&A on Dale's

site that what he brought with him and

he talked about all that. He listed it

and he did not list a metal detector.

Good point.

As a possibility, Billy Shaw, hey Billy

Shaw, I got your email by the way and um

I will get back to you. Um he says a

clearing off of a creek where you would

need to know exactly where to leave the

creek to head up the clearing.

So Billy Shaw just made a great video. I

actually haven't watched it yet, but I'm

sure it's great about his solution.

You you bust it yourself.

Hey, he's a fiddle player. He's got to

be a good guy.

So anyway, he he made a great video on

his solution. Um, Gregory

Calvin, is it not Calvin? Calvin Garcia.

He mentioned all the gear and he didn't

list a metal detector. Correct. Yes. So,

so I'm guessing no. But honestly, there

is a part of me who not only wants to

look for that stick, but I want to look

for the ring, right? Just what if what

if a squirrel somehow got in there and

squirreled away that beautiful ring that

that Forest originally found with a

metal detector at San Lazero? Is it

Lazaro or Lazaro? Lazaro.

Lazaro.

Lazero. Okay. All right. Okay. Should we

move on to the next question? Yes.

Yes.

Okay. Next question. Do you still have

the instructions left by forest in the

chest? Is that an image you can share

with us or would that reveal more than

you are comfortable with? Even a partial

image would be amazing. And he responds,

I don't want to put out any of our legal documentation.

It's not terribly surprising to me.

Now, why is it legal? Why is it legal

documentation? because that's what we

were talking about last night. Um,

when we were on when I said about that's

about being in the lawyer's office and

Carl's office or wherever. Obviously,

they had they drew up the documentation

that he returned it to Forest. force

handed it back, gifted it for the IRS

and and whatever other I mean like when

we talked about this last night with

David or whoever I guess whoever was on

I forget and um but and it had to do with

with

uh Jack's use of the words explicit

permission like it was so important

that that Jack actually reach out to

force and get the explicit permission to

move it and then explicit permission the

next morning to retrieve it. So

yeah. Yeah.

It's a legal thing.

I agree. I mean I it it seems to

reinforce that the instructions left in

the chest were certainly certainly legal

in nature.

And you know, I don't think that's

terribly surprising, but it is kind of

nice to have that concreted by his

answer there because

you know, before I mean, I could imagine

someone saying, well, maybe the

instructions were just, you know, not of

a legal basis, just general instructions

on what what to do outside of, you know,

legal guidance. But it sounds pretty

clear here that the instructions that

Yeah, it was it was something that um

people speculated about, but the idea

that um you open the chest and right off

the bat it's like, okay,

okay,

there we've got some legal issues,

right? And uh and and I've thought about

them and and and it started, right? The

the clock is ticking. think things are

going to happen now. Um that that's

interesting. It it completely makes

sense, but but uh it's not it wasn't uh

front of mind for me over the years

thinking about opening the chest. Yeah.

Yeah.

And Gregory um Colin Garcia says, "Jack

keeps mentioning that there is enough

evidence to somehow confirm the

solution. Therefore, Home of Brown is

our best bet combined with Warm Waters

Halt. Jack Jack, who is not Jack, but

it's Jack Jack,

has Jack done any video interviews

postfind. So, when I first started

emailing back and forth with Jack, uh,

one of the things I I mentioned often

was, you know, I really hope you're able

to make some extra money, you know,

doing the circuit, doing the Josh Gates

and all that other kind of stuff. And so

I kind of refrained from asking many

questions because I assumed that he'd be

going on those shows, right? And I

didn't want to usurp that. And

eventually he said, because I said, you

know, would you like some information on

how to get in contact with Josh Gates

just in case? And he goes, I've turned

them all down. Basically, he said he

turned them all down and he's not interested.

interested.

Which blew my mind. I was like

I I was like, "Well, then I have a few

questions." Like, if you're I assumed he

was going to do this, you know, tour

thing, make some extra money, all this

other kind of stuff. And when he said

no, that's when I finally was like,

"Okay, I'm going to ask a few questions then."

then."

I guess I was thinking that would be

uh expected in the sense that you know

if there's ongoing litigation probably

the last thing you want to do is to go on

you know media outlets and discuss it in

more freely um you know he talked about

it he no he talked about it just wanting

to get back to his normal life

he didn't like reference litigation he

just was like I just want to get back to

my normal life

fair enough.

And so that's when I start asking

questions. I'm like, "Okay, I have a few

questions. Then if if I'm not going to

see these answers in an interview on

ABC, then I then I want to ask myself

and I feel bad because I obviously I

don't want to bug him. But at the same

time, Forest, if anything, Forest taught

me to be bold.

I'm still pretty not bold, but I, you

know, I up my game a little bit by

asking some of these questions." So, um,

as far as I know with the

correspondents, it seems like he's not

going to be doing that kind of a circuit

thing. No Josh Gates, no, um, ABC, NBC,

you know, none of those things. No

morning shows, no nothing.

I don't think there's there's a lot of

money to be made. I don't know what you

get paid to go on Good Morning America

for a two and a half minute segment or whatever.

whatever.

I don't Three grand. I don't know what

they give you. It's probably not much.

And he's probably thinking I'm good in

the I've got the windfall coming as he said.

said.

Makes sense.

Actually, I don't think you get if it's

if they can call themselves a news show,

you don't get anything. Even Inside

Edition didn't pay money. So, really?

really?

No. Now, Expedition Unknown, I believe,

you had to really beg for any of it. And

it was so minuscule and and it wasn't

me, but it's someone Amy that you and I

both know that did it. Yeah.

Yeah.

And um

Oh my god, the money was like barely

pays for your gas.

You know, it's funny. I never asked her

about the money. I never asked her like

about that

it was hardly any. I mean, I don't know

if it was a couple hundred bucks even.

But I know I mean I've done other media

including like the Today Show or

whatever, and there was there's no

money. I mean, and they tell you right

up front that it's if it's a news show,

they don't pay you.

And it's funny how they're all news shows.

shows.

I'm sure that there would be some I'm

sure there's some show out there that

would love to get Jack and and they are

not just a news show. So then he would

get paid. But

and also, I don't know if many people

have noticed, but Dan Barbarici, the guy

that wrote the article that was in

Outside Magazine, he's the one that's

making the rounds. He's been on almost everything.

everything.

Oh, he has. All I know is that he's

gonna be doing a book. What? What is he?

Oh, no. I saw him on Inside Edition

uh one night this past week.

Oh, dang it. I missed that.

He shot He had shot like a CBS morning.

He had he was getting ready to shoot, I

think, a a Today Show episode. So no,

he's Dan's the one that's mostly doing

the the discussion on the

but but at the same time so getting the notoriiety

notoriiety

but not financially benefiting because

it's all news.

Okay. All right. Um let's see here.

Gregory Calvin Garcia, hopefully I'm

saying that right. Uh, interestingly,

Jack also wonders if the nine clues

hindered the search and that one clues

had more nuance than he knew. Right.

That was on Dale's site. Correct. That

one clue had more nuance than he was

aware of.

Uh, Billy Shaw Jr., does anyone on the

panel have any doubts that Jack is the

I don't have any reason to doubt it. No.

Yeah. I would love to say yes. You know,

it was me or it was Cynthia or Justin or

Matt or Dale or someone, but I mean, he

found it. That's all you needed to do is

find the chest and it's yours, you know,

uh, with all the instructions and all

that. All right. So, should we move on

to the next question?

All right. Here we go.

And if you guys hear the panting, I

Okay, fifth question here. Question

number five. How soon after getting your

Thrill of the Chase book did you have

your search area pinned down and gone on

your first search? This is what kind of

blew me away. In a matter of weeks, less

than two months, I had the germ of the

idea and went out there. I did also do

some recons in the same area, but I went

out there principally because this

location did have evidence in its favor.

And as time went on, as much as I didn't

want the treasure to be there, I found

too much evidence to reasonably believe

it could be elsewhere.

Wow. Wow.

Yeah. Are we all saying wow about the

same flaws there?

I like to think so.

Want the treasure to be there? Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

Just vague enough.

Dangle that out there so it blows our minds.

minds.

Oh man.

Why didn't Why didn't he want it to be there?

there?

Surrounded by tourists. I mean, we could

just speculate, you know. No, it's the

legal implication because if it's

Yellowstone National Park, they will

come after him if it comes out.

Okay. Right. That's

I mean maybe. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's that's the first thing that comes

to my mind.

Yeah. Although Yeah. Yeah. I mean he

he's talking about um

the the question is about search area.

So, we're back to football fields,

but he may have just said I mean his

area is going to be within Yellowstone

Park. So, may maybe he's just saying

that. I don't know.

Or maybe he does just mean maybe he

maybe he does mean because he had to

wait across the creek and every time

then he had to get his feet wet or

something. Yeah. May maybe it doesn't

mean Yellowstone. Maybe it's more

specific to the actual spot. It's it's

interesting that um so here he I I

missed this the first time I read it. Uh

he he had the germ of the idea. So

uh he he found the general area very

quickly and that never changed. But

Right. Right.

But he talks about

um knowing where someone is going to die

is a strange sort of intimacy. But he

talks about the confidence that he had

and that kept him going as he um refined

his thinking and um and narrowed it down

more and more. But the but the general

spot never changed. He he just he got

that it clicked. He knew it. And um anyway

anyway

besides my mind being blown?

Well, yeah. So, so yeah, I think Matt's

right. It he he doesn't mean Yellowstone

National Park. I think Matt's right. He

means the place in his general area.

Is that I I don't know.

I mean, it can't be like he had to climb

up a cliff because Forest I mean, he's

only walking where Forest walks. But as

far as physical difficulty, I just don't

see how there could be any kind of an

obstacle or a barrier that would have

intimidated him to where he said that

versus force lugging that thing back

there when he's uh you know 80 years

old. So that that's h

it definitely has me um there's so many

things that have me perplexed, right? I

mean, as you guys know from the Zoom yesterday,

yesterday,

I I I'm just like I am pulling my hair

out trying to figure things out. And um

you know, I had other questions I wanted

to ask. There was actually one I'll I'll

go ahead and share screen again. There

was one that I asked and I I messed this

up because I thought I had asked uh five

questions, but I had asked six. And uh

one of the questions that was in the

middle of all these was this one that he

did not answer. And I did ask him, I'm

like, you know, I'm really sorry that I

didn't that I did six questions instead

of five.

I go, but this is the one I wanted

answered. So I asked him, you mentioned

on Dale's Q&A that the blaze must have

been damaged or destroyed. If someone

still working on TTOC TTOC correctly

solves it, will this be a problem for

them to find the exact nook? Is the

blaze missing or damaged beyond helpfulness?

helpfulness?

So, I mean, I I feel awful bugging him

so much, right? Asking these questions,

that kind of stuff. Um, I know how how

Forest always was like felt obligated to

answer all these and he seems to be in a

similar position where he's really

wanting to satisfy these questions. Um,

but this is one for whatever reason he

Let's see here. Uh, Gregory says, "I've

done it tired. tires or tire rails

now are old and weakly visible. I have

no idea what that means, Gregory.

He also says, "The pioneers like Osborne

Russell and Lewis Clark blazed the

trails." Alan K says, "Amy seeks, if it

wasn't on private property, why did he

need to call Forest to get permission to

retrieve it? That screams Yellowstone

for me.

Now, I think on Facebook this was

answered. Hey, KPro, what's up? Um, I

think on Facebook, um, he answered one

of these. Somebody said he might This

is, you know, this is the tricky part.

He answered that for me, the the

explicit permission. Um he he told me

that um

if he had found it um on his first

during his first uh search season 2018,

he probably would would have just

grabbed it. But over the years, his um I

guess awareness of kind of the the

lawsuits that were swirling around and

that sort of thing.

it in his mind he thought um and and and

this maybe this means there wasn't legal

documentation or maybe there was as well

but before he ever cracked the thing

open he was already thinking

um you know

just to be on the safe side I want to

take this step and do this and so [Music]

[Music]

so he did the explicit permission thing

found it on Friday and then

so it wasn't instructed in the letter

that Forest left in the in the box.

Well, we're assuming, right?

It it could also have been somehow part

part of that, but he he made it sound as

if in his mind he was already thinking

that, you know, once I, you know, once I

knock on the top of this thing, I'm

gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna get him on the

phone. I'm gonna send him an email,

whatever. and get get permission.

He thought that this, you know, that's

what he told me.

And then he left it

and left. He left it in the safest place

he thought possible.

Going back to that last question though,

it does speak again to his confidence. Um,

Um,

you know, he he got tripped up by this

fake blaze, but he knew he was in the

right place. He got uh tripped up by he

he he didn't want it to be here, but he

knew it was. You know, it speaks to he

he was confident that he he knew this

was the spot. I've got a lot of

searching to do, right? 25 full days or

whatever was ahead of him,

but he he was confident.

So, you you can get you can get that

level of you can get that level of

confidence before you before you get there.

there. [Laughter]

[Laughter]

I'm just gonna squeak an uncomfortable

I honestly, you know, I I know I'm I'm

very ethical when it comes to a lot of

stuff and I'm always making sure I'm on

the right and it's like I'm doing things

correctly because on your deathbed,

that's who you are, right?

But I can't help to think that if I had

found the chest,

I would have totally squirreled it away

in my backpack, gone back to my car, and

then asked for permission to retrieve it.

it.

I mean, as ethical as I am, that's just

I mean, the chances What if I wouldn't

have been able to get past the whatifs?

What if what if a badger eats the treasure?

Um, you know, I and I know that I, you

know, so I've been trying to peruse

Facebook, right? And I'm like trying to

keep up with everything, which I am new

to Facebook since starting my channel

and seeing all these posts of people who

who who read about the fact that he left

the chest there, right? and um went to

go ask for us because he was he was so

confident that no one was going to find

it. It was like ah safest place in the

world, right? And he goes and contacts

Forest. Oh, that was the other thing,

right? So he goes to contact Forest on

June 5th and then recovers it on June

6th. Is that the correct timeline that

we have so far? Yes.

Yes.

Okay. All right. I should double check.

Okay. Yeah, I'm good. So

I don't know.

I understand why people are like, "No way."

way."

You know, the

the more that I hear

the more that I think that this was

a place that was exceedingly protected. um

the fact that so let's think about the

possible answers to this question. You

know what was the blaze?

Let's say the blaze was a rock.

Why can't he say that? Well, the blaze

was a rock. He doesn't want to answer

the question. He says that it was

damaged and moved, but he's afraid to

answer the question.

Animal, mineral, vegetable.

Why is he afraid to answer this

question? I think it's because it's

going to give away too much information

as to where the treasure was found.

Either it was a very notable event that

folks would, you know, like, well, it

was, you know, damaged by, I don't know,

a famous landslide or something that

might help kind of folks queue in on the

area. But more likely, in my opinion,

the blaze is something that was

incredibly unique. And if he called it

out right now, we'd know exactly where

it was at potentially. Ju just just my

two cents. I mean, it it does seem

what he's alluded to.

Yeah. I mean, okay. If it was a tree,

just say a tree. You know, it sounds

like it's something more specific than

that, like

a statue or,

you know, petrified piece of wood that

was of importance and protected, you

know, on display, you know, something.

It seems like it's something

considerably more unique than, you know,

otherwise he would just answer the

question. Like, it's it there's no need

to be ky about that. It's strange to me.

It's strange to me, too. So,

So,

so Justin, you you've done so much many

boots on the grounds looking at all

sorts of possibilities for blazes. Um,

and I'm assuming that maybe one of the

things you've done at least on one of

your searchs is you look for some kind

of a um a a formation of rock that's not

like a cliff, but I mean it's fairly

large like your size and and to see if

it looks like a bear or or or whatever.

Um, so you know, so Camel Rock, so so

outside of Santa Fe, and this has

nothing to do with actually what Jack

found, but outside of Santa Fe, there's

this huge rock formation called Camel

Rock and you know it it was it's been

standing there for years and years and

years and as a tourist pull off and you

know that camel's face fell off a couple

years ago. So

but you could still say a rock, right? I

mean, the chances that someone would would,

would,

you know, equate that to what you're

describing is small, I think.

Yeah. But, um, well, I'm just trying to

think of something that it could be that

isn't a tree or a wooden signpost or

something where nature nature damages it

like when the camel's face fell off.

That was sort of funny.

I mean, I think that there are displays

like this is a stretch, but you know,

there are displays within the national

park that have historic historical

significance. They're protected,

but you know, they,

you know, some of them are man-made,

some of them are quite unique. I mean,

it could be like a sculpture or

something to that effect where, you

know, if he said, "Well, the blaze was a

sculpture." Boy, how many sculptures are

on public display throughout the region

that we're describing that was damaged

in the last decade? Probably very few.

Uh that that I think would be an example

of of a scary answer to give. You know,

if the blaze was a sculpture and and

those are the types of things that I

think it may be is something that is is

unique enough where we're going to know

what it is if he says it. I I don't know

what that item is, but I think we would know.

know.

And a real quick question, Matt. Uh what

you sent me, is it okay to share that?

Is that why you sent it? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay.

Are you asking for explicit permission?

Yes, I am.

Okay. I'm going to send you my legal

document now.

Always always ask for consent

and then tomorrow you can show it

tomorrow. Not today. Not tonight.

You can show right now, please.

All right, I'll get that ready. You guys

keep talking.

Well, I I think the most interesting

questions that have been posed to Jack

are the ones that he doesn't answer.

I mean, the ones where I think maybe it

was Allen that had asked him, was the

treasure actually in a canyon? And I'm

I'm paraphrasing. And the answer, I

think, was one word. It was maybe. Mhm.

I mean,

why wouldn't you just answer the

question? Like, that's a very strange

response to me. Like, it sounds like

hell yeah, it was any canyon. Like,

it's like, how else do you interpret

that? So, you know, there's those are

the types of questions to me that are

the most interesting are the ones where

we don't get a response or, you know,

nothing to our satisfaction. Anyway,

and real quick, Matt, which part would

you like me to share? I got a a an email

that just has the he didn't understand

my first question. Oops. Part.

Did I mess up?

I don't know. I'm really bad

technologically speaking, so I would not

assume that you messed up. I would

assume that I'm not sure what I'm doing.

Oh, I'm assuming I messed up.

Oh, I like that. Yes, it was you. It was

all you.

um the the the email I just sent you

that has my question and then his

answer. I I I took it out of a longer

email, but those are word for word.

Eventually, I can show them. Um

if you want to share screen, you can go

ahead and do that if it's more convenient.

convenient.

Can I work? No. Okay, I'll try and find

it. Give me a second.

Okay. All right. Right.

I so want to make sure I don't show

something I'm not supposed to show. Is

it Is it okay to talk about uh upcoming

videos or anything like that?

Not. You don't have my explicit

I'd be good. Okay.

Oh, I don't know. This this woman I

know, she she like cracked a whip to

make she wanted me to make a video and

and she kept talking about like when is

it coming? Is it coming in an hour soon?

I'm like

her name is Cynthia. She could be very

mean and

I'm I'm working on it.

I can't tell if Cynthia froze.

We got some We got something today that

they called a clue. wasn't really a

clue, but they called it a clue. And

that that got me away from

chapter four, Zoom, baby. Yeah. Chapter four.

four. Yeah.

Yeah.

And then the fact that six of us were

constantly texting you all morning.

So, you absolutely had no time to finish

that video. I know. I

But you better finish it tonight.

But yes, I expected to be out there.

Complaining about the clue. Oh, but

we're not this. We're not supposed to

talk about chapter four. Okay. All

right. All right.

And real quick, Jeep girl Jodie says,

"And Jeep girl Jodie sending hugs." Big

hugs. I thought the blaze was a white

rock uplift near Cold Springs Mountain

in Irish Canyon. Gregory says, "Uh, a

specific trail would definitely reveal

where to search or the route to search

through Wyoming." Billy Shaw Jr., What

if the blaze is a physical object? Uh,

that was supposed to say isn't a Oh,

what if the blaze isn't a physical object?

object?

Uh, Paladin Paladin says, "Read about

the secrets of White Rock Canyon. Glyphs

carved in stone all over the place from

hundreds of years ago." Jeep girl Jodie

says there is a bold white layer of

limestone at the top of a perched

canyon. Irish canyon journeyman says

sitting in just about the safest place

in the world. Question mark question

mark question mark.

It sounds like it's protected

very much so.

Ah, we're gonna find it. And I'm gonna

And go ahead and share anytime you're

ready, Matt. I'll keep reading. Oh, here

we go. There we go.

Can you see it?

We can. We can.

Okay. Again, I I

I I asked the question and he didn't

answer it and I don't have it nicely

spread out and and so you'll just have

to trust me that this is word for word.

I'm just distracted, Matt, by your song

charts on the on the right side there.

Can't imagine what that's related to.

The what? Oh,

how do I

Chapter four, baby?

Where are I don't even know what's over here.

here.

Carrie's gonna be mad at you.

Where's my You know, okay. Um, okay. So,

I asked him why asked permission. The

poem says take it. And Forest never

suggested you needed that. And like I

said earlier, he said, "If if I had

somehow found it uh my first boots on

the ground, I probably would have just

taken it and told him after. But the

more I thought about it over months in

the chase, the more I wanted it explicit

from him and not just dependent on words

in a poem. Just being careful. We all

knew this thing could turn into a legal

hot potato,

which it did.

Thank you, Matt.

You were sweating bullets. I could tell

not all of us are as techsavvy as you.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Right, Justin. Dang,

I have so many song charts. Mike, you

want one? I'll give you one.

Yeah, give us the song chart. Chapter 4

Zoom solve tonight on ABC.

Justin, there's somebody here who wants

to say hi to you.

I have to see what Justin looks like. Hi.

Hi.

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

Nice to see you. I feel like I know you.

Well, likewise. I I listen to your show

regularly now, so

Oh, well, thanks. I appreciate it.

Anyway, I won't I know you guys have important

important

What show is that? What show is that?

It's a uh a radio an NPR uh affiliate

radio show that uh is on in like a bunch

of states and uh we talked about the

chase recently uh because of an article

done by a journalist and Justin was the

star of the article and so we talked all

about him. Yeah,

Yeah,

we were in town and and the um and the

article came out and so Justin, you and

I talked or whatever and it was very

exciting. It was fun. I thought it was

well written. And then um like later

that morning,

my producer found it.

A producer at her show said, "I found

this cool article." She didn't know he

or she

she pa

she didn't know the connection at all.

And so she's pitching the show to Chris

anyway. And then when the show is going

on, I'm texting you, Justin. I'm like,

it's a little weird that my wife is here

talking about you on the radio. But

anyway, it was a fun it was a fun hour.

That's a bit odd. Yeah. I mean,

shameless plug, though. Uh, her show

called Think is phenomenal. So, everybody,

everybody,

that was your show that I listened to. Yes.

Yes.

Cool. You guys all got to I'll put the

link in the description below as long

along with the other links of all the

stuff we're talking about.

Awesome. Thank you. Well, y'all have a

great night. Bye. Bye.

Nice to meet you. Yeah.

Nice to see you.

Well, that was way cool.

That was very cool.

Yeah, it was. It was. I mean, her her

show is not about me. It's not about our

lives. I mean, it's just it was weird,

you know, to have the radio on and she's

talking about Forest Fen and she's

talking about my friend Justin and and

it's like it's like this is kind of

weird. But

well, there's one thing in particular

that she said during that interview that

I had to exclaim out loud. Thank you

emphatically. Um, I'll let you guess

which line that was.

What? No, don't make us guess.

I don't know. I don't know.

Well, take it over.

Give us a hint. Give us a hint. Anything.

Anything.

No, I better not. No. Oh, you're cruel. Cruel.

Cruel.

Just a hint.

No. No. I'm drinking tea now. You can't

get to me.

Dang it. Dang it. Jenny. Jenny, can we

get another drink for him? Yeah.

All right. We've got a few comments from

chat. Here we go. Gary, by the way. Hi,

Gary. So Gary Richer is um he's in chat

and he says could go back to the blaze

being a petetroglyph many of which are

documented especially in Yellowstone as

far as the blaze is concerned and being

a unique object that would

that if you knew it it would somehow

jeopardize the location.

Right. So

that's a great example. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, potentially something

that's protected, you know, potentially

by the park authorities or something

that's kind of maybe even roped off. I

don't know. But, um, you know, something

that would stand the test of time,

something that's a a staple of the landscape.

landscape.

Uh, but something that you would know if

someone said you, "Oh, the blaze was a

petroglyph." And you'd think, "Oh, well,

there's only been a handful of

petetroglyphs that have, you know,

petetroglyphs that have been destroyed

to that degree in the last 10 years. It

can't be that hard to track down, right?

Yes, we know he said destroyed or

damaged. But that's what kills me.

Destroyed or damaged? Which one? And

that was the one question he didn't

answer. And I'm like, oh, I re I

responded, you know, saying, I'm sorry,

I meant to I meant to do five questions,

not six. And um this was the question

that was really important for me. And

unfortunately, let me just check right

now, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't

responded yet as far as uh the blaze is

concerned. Um, no, still no response as

far as whether or not it was damaged or

destroyed and how that would affect

someone searching for the treasure in

today. You know, I mean, one of the

biggest concerns we all have is if we

are going to continue trying to figure

out where the special spot is, is there

any way to know, right? Otherwise, we're

back where we started where no one's

found the chest yet and we all know

exactly where it is, right?

You know, at this point, how do we know,

you know, 100% if we got it correct?

Besides the stick, you know, we I only

have one search season under our belt

here. That's it. That stick is going to

be gone in another year. So, this is

make or break us right here. [Music]

[Music]

Well, and and

stick 2021.

Unless that stick blew into the safest

place in the world. Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Possible.

Possible.

All right, let's see. So, uh Jack Jack

after that, by the way, hi Gary. Gary is

the one who uh Forest when he was coming

out for Fenbury slipped and like totally

slammed into Gary's truck and dented it.

It was like a Superman moment, you know,

or like uh the what was that vampire

show where, you know, he like puts his

hands up duck dents the truck and uh

yeah, it was crazy. And so anyway, um

that that is who Gary is of the dented

truck fame. Uh, Jack Jackack says, "We

all have a huge advantage that Jack

didn't have, namely a 75% reduction in

search area. Theoretically, it should be

75% easier to solve now." Just saying.

Oh, I mean I agree that there's a huge

reduction in the area, but for those

poor schmucks like myself who were

pretty much convinced it was in Wyoming

to begin with

doesn't doesn't help all that much, unfortunately.

All right. Lucky Digger says, "I thought

that in CBRO's interview, he said

something about some kind of canyon."

That was the maybe, right? That was the

was it in canyon or not? And he's like maybe.

maybe. Yep.

Yep.

Or does she mean forest fans interview

with KPro? Uh

doesn't say. It doesn't specify. So let

us know. Lucky Digger. Uh Billy Shaw Jr.

says, and by the way, Amy seeks

uh that's how I see the uh questions. Uh

Billy Shaw Jr. I think Jack has said

that he thought it must have been

destroyed or damaged and that he never

found it. He didn't explicitly say he

never found it, but it I don't know.

Should we bring that up? Should I bring

that up in um the Q&A on Dale's site? Sure.

Sure.

Okay, let me go ahead and do that. You

Well, some somewhere he says I I think

it's the paragraph we're talking about.

It's worded

uh strangely. He says that something

like through much effort I was able to

ascertain that I I was in fact looking

at the real damaged blaze or whatever.

And then you're like, what does that

look like? What does that process look

okay. Yeah, there were a couple of

answers on there that really didn't set

well. You know, there there was the

other one where someone asked if they

could disclose if if Jack could disclose

what the blade is. And the answer was

kind of odd. I mean, the way it was

worded, he said that he said, "I think

that could imperel the location if it

ever becomes known." So,

So,

what does that mean? Like it doesn't

necessarily mean so only if the location

becomes known will the location become

imperiled if we were to know what the

blaze was. Like what what I I'm very

confused by that terminology in his

response. Maybe I'm just nitpicking though.

though.

Yeah. I think he I mean to play devil's

advocate he was fielding a lot of

questions dozens and dozens of questions

and often he was getting back to people

in 15 or 20 minutes so

you know maybe a you know not the most

elegant way to express that or something

I see what you're saying but

I don't I don't know I'm just playing

devil devil's advocate

Amy's gone. We can do whatever we want.

What are we doing, Cynthia?

Magic. Justin's been Justin's gonna dance.

dance.

You're going to do magic and Justin's

gonna dance and

No, actually, he's going to do magic

while he dances.

Was this like a job?

Wait, are you the dancing magician?

Yes, he is.

No, not at all.

All right, the the the teacher's back.

We need to behave.

What did I miss?

It's very uh [Laughter]

[Laughter]

What did I miss? Come on. Nothing.

Nothing.

I'm sorry. My dog had gotten a hold of

something that

I feel like just blurting out everything

that I blurted out Justin to you and

Cynthia the other morning when I was

like, "Okay, well, if this is what he

says, I think I know where it is."

Can we go there? kind of feel the same,

you know. And to be fair though, like

David Steele has has been a a grounding

force for me in the sense that, you

know, he comes back to the math and he

talks about as as much as as much to the

chagrin of many folks watching the

geographic coordinate solution and the

mathematical probability that that is a

coincidence is astronomically low. I'm

just going to have to throw it out

there. I mean, it is what it is. Like,

the numbers kind of speak for

themselves. So, you know, I I don't

think it's any secret that David

Steele's opinion on this is that that

Jack isn't being totally honest, you

know, with the present situation for

what he feels are obvious reasons and

that there's there's no reason to have

any of this discussion that we're having

right now because of course the

geographic coordinate solution is

correct and it and if you look at the

math, I mean, it's it's hard to discount

[Laughter]

Well, okay. But no, this is where I No,

this this is the problem I have with that.

that.

You have to do some gymnastics a little

bit to get to the number that works. I

mean, come on. This thing was Nobody got

to the number. If it's so obvious,

nobody got to the number. And I'm not

saying you were saying it's obvious, but

if if if all signs point in one

direction to one number, then somebody

would have figured out in year one.

No one did. And you you have to do these

you have to bend over backwards a little

bit. It f and this okay the the starting

place doesn't work. So let me do another

starting place. And uh the homonyms

don't work. So let me also add kangaroo

words. and this one could be, but let me

rule it out because it doesn't work. So,

you you kind of have to tweak it and

twist it and and then you get your

number and then you stand back and say,

"Look at this thing that just appeared."

That's that's kind of how I feel. I I

don't think it just comes to you. I

think you you you've kind of you kind of have to massage it.

have to massage it. Fair. Yeah. I mean, so the rules for

Fair. Yeah. I mean, so the rules for this are you start where he says to

this are you start where he says to begin

begin and anything that

and anything that has a literal number spelled out in the

has a literal number spelled out in the word is fair game. And anything that

word is fair game. And anything that homophonically speaking sounds like a

homophonically speaking sounds like a number is also fair game. Those are the

number is also fair game. Those are the only rules. I mean, I guess I view those

only rules. I mean, I guess I view those as as fairly straightforward, but you

as as fairly straightforward, but you know,

know, you know, to to my own credit, like I

you know, to to my own credit, like I wrote those those numbers out long ago

wrote those those numbers out long ago and I couldn't make sense of them and I

and I couldn't make sense of them and I started at the top of the poem. I didn't

started at the top of the poem. I didn't I mean, it sounds again, it sounds silly

I mean, it sounds again, it sounds silly now, but you know, start where he says

now, but you know, start where he says to begin seems reasonable now in

to begin seems reasonable now in retrospect, but but I agree that there

retrospect, but but I agree that there are there's the the one that's most

are there's the the one that's most contentious to me is this whole

contentious to me is this whole wraparound technique. It's like you get

wraparound technique. It's like you get to the bottom of the poem, but no, you

to the bottom of the poem, but no, you got to keep going. You go back up to the

got to keep going. You go back up to the top and you add this one digit. That

top and you add this one digit. That one, that one especially is bothersome

one, that one especially is bothersome to me. But you know, just the mere fact

to me. But you know, just the mere fact that you you start at a a position in

that you you start at a a position in the poem and consecutively from there

the poem and consecutively from there you end up with numbers that that of the

you end up with numbers that that of the billions and billions of ge geographic

billions and billions of ge geographic coordinates in the world land in the

coordinates in the world land in the prescribed area and meet all the

prescribed area and meet all the criteria. I mean that that is

criteria. I mean that that is interesting to me. Whether or not it's

interesting to me. Whether or not it's correct is clearly debatable. Um, unless

correct is clearly debatable. Um, unless you talk to David, it's not

you talk to David, it's not correct. Right.

correct. Right. It's the It is It

It's the It is It Yeah. So, you know, I I I like both

Yeah. So, you know, I I I like both sides of this. I mean, I understand if

sides of this. I mean, I understand if you're looking at it mathematically,

you're looking at it mathematically, it's it's it's hard to it's hard to

it's it's it's hard to it's hard to stray from it. But you're right. There

stray from it. But you're right. There are rules that are involved to derive

are rules that are involved to derive those numbers. And it really kind of

those numbers. And it really kind of boils down to whether or not you think

boils down to whether or not you think those rules are reasonable.

those rules are reasonable. Yeah,

but I digress. Back to the uh topic here.

Oh, so um something I've never really talked about much was I was never like a

talked about much was I was never like a fan of the GPS solve, but I was super

fan of the GPS solve, but I was super excited because obviously I don't know.

excited because obviously I don't know. I'm not Forest and I'm not the person

I'm not Forest and I'm not the person who found it, right? So, a huge part of

who found it, right? So, a huge part of it was just being so happy that Cynthia

it was just being so happy that Cynthia had I remember when she texted me, I've

had I remember when she texted me, I've slept the best I have, you know, in the

slept the best I have, you know, in the past however many years, right? And

past however many years, right? And after that, I don't care whether it's

after that, I don't care whether it's right or not, right? You know, it's like

right or not, right? You know, it's like it's like I'm just so excited. Um

it's like I'm just so excited. Um because it gave her this peace of mind.

because it gave her this peace of mind. It was like, yay, right? And so now

It was like, yay, right? And so now we're in this whole thing about it's

we're in this whole thing about it's like, oh shoot, now we don't know

like, oh shoot, now we don't know whether or not for sure if it was

whether or not for sure if it was correct or not. And hopefully eventually

correct or not. And hopefully eventually that's going to come out. You know,

that's going to come out. You know, hopefully eventually we'll have some

hopefully eventually we'll have some indication if you know even if it wasn't

indication if you know even if it wasn't GPS, is it the right spot? Right? We

GPS, is it the right spot? Right? We even if it wasn't GPS, was it the right

even if it wasn't GPS, was it the right spot and all that kind of stuff. Um but

spot and all that kind of stuff. Um but uh you know I I do want to go through

uh you know I I do want to go through eventually with Justin uh the whole

eventually with Justin uh the whole thing because I remember when I first

thing because I remember when I first saw it I was like

saw it I was like you know the massaging thing. I'm like I

you know the massaging thing. I'm like I don't know how I feel about this.

So, so I you know I I do want to do that at some point but um yeah I guess I

at some point but um yeah I guess I guess it is difficult when when the

guess it is difficult when when the finder says you know I mean just like

finder says you know I mean just like with forest how much do we believe how

with forest how much do we believe how much do we think maybe is being fibbed

much do we think maybe is being fibbed upon to save some information or

upon to save some information or something like that. how much do we take

something like that. how much do we take at face value? And the finder says, you

at face value? And the finder says, you know, no GPS, but um at the same time,

know, no GPS, but um at the same time, like Justin is saying with the the um

like Justin is saying with the the um the numbers, like what is the

the numbers, like what is the coincidence of this? And and so so I I

coincidence of this? And and so so I I always find myself being like, well, you

always find myself being like, well, you know, with numbers, as clear as numbers

know, with numbers, as clear as numbers are, they can still be fuzzy. You know,

are, they can still be fuzzy. You know, numbers can still be fuzzy when you when

numbers can still be fuzzy when you when you consider whatever rules that you're

you consider whatever rules that you're putting forth for those numbers. And

putting forth for those numbers. And yeah, I think that's why it's really

yeah, I think that's why it's really important to, you know, have clear

important to, you know, have clear justifiable rules when you're doing the

justifiable rules when you're doing the analysis of the poem in order to pull

analysis of the poem in order to pull out those numbers. Uh, but

out those numbers. Uh, but right,

right, you know, I mean, the numbers aside,

you know, I mean, the numbers aside, it's, you know, Jack has emphatically

it's, you know, Jack has emphatically said pretty clearly that the the

said pretty clearly that the the geographic coordinate solution is

geographic coordinate solution is incorrect. And so it's it's it's one of

incorrect. And so it's it's it's one of two things. You know, I generally, from

two things. You know, I generally, from my perspective, I I like to give folks

my perspective, I I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to

the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to take what they're saying at face value

take what they're saying at face value unless there's a compelling reason to

unless there's a compelling reason to the contrary. And

the contrary. And so far, Jack hasn't said anything that

so far, Jack hasn't said anything that makes me think, you know what, I can't I

makes me think, you know what, I can't I don't have confidence in what he's

don't have confidence in what he's saying. That's not true. I do have

saying. That's not true. I do have confidence because I have no reason not

confidence because I have no reason not to.

to. Right.

Right. And and you know, I've heard folks say,

And and you know, I've heard folks say, well, you know, he didn't even want to

well, you know, he didn't even want to come out. But the fact is he's public

come out. But the fact is he's public now and he and it appears to me that

now and he and it appears to me that he's he's doing his best. like he's

he's he's doing his best. like he's reaching out and making the best of what

reaching out and making the best of what was an unfortunate situation. He's

was an unfortunate situation. He's responding to emails. He's trying to

responding to emails. He's trying to balance,

balance, you know, he's he's walking this line

you know, he's he's walking this line and he's trying to give folks throw

and he's trying to give folks throw folks a bone, but at the same time,

folks a bone, but at the same time, there are legal implications that that

there are legal implications that that could harm him, I'm sure. Um, and it's

could harm him, I'm sure. Um, and it's just it's it's hard. I can imagine that.

just it's it's hard. I can imagine that. But, you know, for other folks, it's

But, you know, for other folks, it's like, well, I just I don't trust what

like, well, I just I don't trust what he's saying because the numbers speak

he's saying because the numbers speak for themselves. And I, you know, I I I I

for themselves. And I, you know, I I I I can see both sides of that.

can see both sides of that. Do you think um so like I was surprised

Do you think um so like I was surprised that legally he was forced to come

that legally he was forced to come forward with who he was because that was

forward with who he was because that was eventually going to come out. I just I

eventually going to come out. I just I guess I was surprised. I'm like, you

guess I was surprised. I'm like, you know, I just the court systems I'm like,

know, I just the court systems I'm like, god dang it. Um, do you guys think that

god dang it. Um, do you guys think that there is this potential that the

there is this potential that the location will also be revealed just due

location will also be revealed just due to the court systems needing to verify

to the court systems needing to verify that the um claim of of of saying I'

that the um claim of of of saying I' I've solved it. This is where it was. I

I've solved it. This is where it was. I mean, is that really a possibility?

mean, is that really a possibility? I hope not.

I hope not. I really hope not. I mean, as much as

I really hope not. I mean, as much as I'd love to know the location,

I'd love to know the location, that would be just another unfortunate

that would be just another unfortunate day for our legal system to get to the

day for our legal system to get to the point where you're having to dredge out

point where you're having to dredge out this sort of information from folks that

this sort of information from folks that this was a game, guys. You know, at the

this was a game, guys. You know, at the end of the day, like this was meant to

end of the day, like this was meant to be fun for everyone. It's over. You

be fun for everyone. It's over. You know, the game's over. There are sore

know, the game's over. There are sore losers involved in this game, no doubt.

losers involved in this game, no doubt. But

But always, right, always sore losers. It

always, right, always sore losers. It would seem it would seem like um rather

would seem it would seem like um rather than you know putting the onus over on

than you know putting the onus over on the defendant in this case, the

the defendant in this case, the plaintiff

plaintiff can can uh produce phone records and we

can can uh produce phone records and we can find out who who was texting her the

can find out who who was texting her the right remember the

right remember the right and then that would end it all.

right and then that would end it all. We all saw those email exchanges that

We all saw those email exchanges that were going back and forth and she says

were going back and forth and she says she's saying now that's that's the

she's saying now that's that's the finder. So therefore, she's saying that

finder. So therefore, she's saying that that's Jack. Once once we identify that,

that's Jack. Once once we identify that, then then the whole thing can go away

then then the whole thing can go away because it's not him.

because it's not him. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, that's true. So I Yeah, I don't know. But who who

So I Yeah, I don't know. But who who knows? Who knows?

knows? Who knows? That part is confusing. I I guess I've

That part is confusing. I I guess I've been surprised so far that it's gotten

been surprised so far that it's gotten as far as it has. Um just because anyone

as far as it has. Um just because anyone could claim exactly what she's claiming,

could claim exactly what she's claiming, you know? And so it confuses me that um

you know? And so it confuses me that um that it it continues to get traction.

that it it continues to get traction. And you know, I just feel I feel awful

And you know, I just feel I feel awful that I'm so excited that we have a

that I'm so excited that we have a finder because of the way it had to come

finder because of the way it had to come out. And I you know, I feel that same

out. And I you know, I feel that same conflict with obviously if we if we knew

conflict with obviously if we if we knew the location, you know, all of us would

the location, you know, all of us would be like I mean it would be the ultimate

be like I mean it would be the ultimate like you know, you have the climax in a

like you know, you have the climax in a book, right? you know, you're waiting

book, right? you know, you're waiting you're waiting to know the ultimate

you're waiting to know the ultimate information, which is where was it

information, which is where was it found, right? And all of us would be

found, right? And all of us would be like,

like, "All right,

"All right, but but ask yourself like,

but but ask yourself like, but that's not how I want it to come

but that's not how I want it to come out, you know?

out, you know? How do you want to find this

How do you want to find this information?" Like, exactly. This is

information?" Like, exactly. This is like any other riddle or puzzle out

like any other riddle or puzzle out there, right? Like if you go to the

there, right? Like if you go to the store and you're like, I'm going to buy

store and you're like, I'm going to buy this puzzle to solve,

this puzzle to solve, thousands of people have already solved

thousands of people have already solved it, but you're still buying it, right?

it, but you're still buying it, right? Like you you still want to solve it on

Like you you still want to solve it on your own.

your own. I adore the aha moment. It's like

I adore the aha moment. It's like that's right out.

that's right out. You've purchased this for your own

You've purchased this for your own amusement. Like that's and if somebody

amusement. Like that's and if somebody burst into the room and said ah the

burst into the room and said ah the answer is ABC. It's like come on like

answer is ABC. It's like come on like you know I was trying to do this for

you know I was trying to do this for myself and that's

myself and that's so ask yourself the question at the end

so ask yourself the question at the end of the day what would you feel better

of the day what would you feel better about? Would you feel better that yes,

about? Would you feel better that yes, you got a few hints because the person

you got a few hints because the person that found it threw you some hints, but

that found it threw you some hints, but didn't didn't give it to you on a silver

didn't didn't give it to you on a silver platter. You know, you still had to work

platter. You know, you still had to work for it and and you found it and and

for it and and you found it and and that's something I think you can feel

that's something I think you can feel proud of. But

proud of. But if someone comes out and gives you the

if someone comes out and gives you the answer right off the bat, is that really

answer right off the bat, is that really the way you want to go about this? I you

the way you want to go about this? I you know, maybe it is for some people, but

know, maybe it is for some people, but not for me.

not for me. Cynthia, how are you about that? because

Cynthia, how are you about that? because I know you are kind of like I want to

I know you are kind of like I want to know, right? How do you feel about that,

know, right? How do you feel about that, Cynthia?

Cynthia? So, because I don't really know what the

So, because I don't really know what the answers to the clues are, the next step

answers to the clues are, the next step Jack could do to really really help is

Jack could do to really really help is say Yellowstone National Park, yes or

say Yellowstone National Park, yes or no. Then that still

no. Then that still it it's it's almost as I mean that's the

it it's it's almost as I mean that's the next step after Fen said it was in

next step after Fen said it was in Wyoming. So now I mean a lot of us

Wyoming. So now I mean a lot of us that's the question. Well do you think

that's the question. Well do you think it was in Yellowstone or was it outside

it was in Yellowstone or was it outside the park? So

the park? So especially okay so one way you can sort

especially okay so one way you can sort of analyze this is if it was inside

of analyze this is if it was inside Yellowstone he cannot probably say it

Yellowstone he cannot probably say it was in Yellowstone.

was in Yellowstone. If it's not if it was not in

If it's not if it was not in Yellowstone, what harm would there be to

Yellowstone, what harm would there be to this place that he's trying to protect

this place that he's trying to protect so much? What harm would there be in him

so much? What harm would there be in him saying it was not inside Yellowstone

saying it was not inside Yellowstone National Park?

National Park? So, that to me would be an incredible

So, that to me would be an incredible incredibly helpful. And it still doesn't

incredibly helpful. And it still doesn't take you to the special place, but it it

take you to the special place, but it it helps narrow it down. That's a good

helps narrow it down. That's a good question. So, if it's not in

question. So, if it's not in Yellowstone, what are the implications?

Yellowstone, what are the implications? If he said it's not in Yellowstone, what

If he said it's not in Yellowstone, what do you guys think? What What are the

do you guys think? What What are the implications if he said that?

implications if he said that? There are none. This I mean to me I mean

There are none. This I mean to me I mean because I've searched so much of the

because I've searched so much of the wilderness, the Shichonne, you know,

wilderness, the Shichonne, you know, National Wilderness, which is huge. Um

National Wilderness, which is huge. Um I just don't if it would have been

I just don't if it would have been there, I don't even see what harm would

there, I don't even see what harm would it be him saying that. Now, if there's

it be him saying that. Now, if there's some kind of a protected area like

some kind of a protected area like Justin talked about earlier, sure, I

Justin talked about earlier, sure, I understand Jack not wanting to give up a

understand Jack not wanting to give up a spot that's really really protected. But

spot that's really really protected. But if it's if it's a national wilderness in

if it's if it's a national wilderness in Wyoming,

Wyoming, obviously outside of Yellowstone, I just

obviously outside of Yellowstone, I just don't see how um that could hurt

don't see how um that could hurt anything, which to me implies then it's

anything, which to me implies then it's probably inside Yellowstone. But that's

probably inside Yellowstone. But that's just me. It's not like I know anything.

just me. It's not like I know anything. I mean, I don't know, but that's just my

I mean, I don't know, but that's just my interpretation of him not telling us.

interpretation of him not telling us. I don't think anyone's posed the

I don't think anyone's posed the question to him, but I suspect that he

question to him, but I suspect that he would not he would choose not to answer

would not he would choose not to answer that. And I think by virtue of not

that. And I think by virtue of not answering that question, he has answered

answering that question, he has answered the question

the question sort of like I guess he could you could

sort of like I guess he could you could ask him that and he could just say

ask him that and he could just say maybe like the canyon. But when he said

maybe like the canyon. But when he said the maybe, it's like yes, it was found

the maybe, it's like yes, it was found in a canyon. So h

in a canyon. So h So you guys are thinking it like you're

So you guys are thinking it like you're leaning towards it has to be

leaning towards it has to be Yellowstone.

Yellowstone. It only because of the

It only because of the Yeah, I I guess I am just because he

Yeah, I I guess I am just because he won't say that it's not.

won't say that it's not. And it just seems to me

And it just seems to me because there I think there's going to

because there I think there's going to be so many legal issues if it really was

be so many legal issues if it really was in Yellowstone. Maybe there's legal

in Yellowstone. Maybe there's legal issues that forest that came about since

issues that forest that came about since forest hit it. You know, you know, rules

forest hit it. You know, you know, rules do change.

do change. Yes. So, but I don't keep up with it and

Yes. So, but I don't keep up with it and I don't know if anything has changed

I don't know if anything has changed with regarding national parks in the

with regarding national parks in the last 10 years, but

last 10 years, but it uh it just seems to me that yeah, I

it uh it just seems to me that yeah, I guess that's where I'm leaning.

guess that's where I'm leaning. Okay. As far as just people in the chat

Okay. As far as just people in the chat room and on this panel, how many are

room and on this panel, how many are over 50% that it was in Yellowstone?

Wow. I mean, not dramatically over 50%. Uh,

I mean, not dramatically over 50%. Uh, but think about the land designations

but think about the land designations that are at our disposal here, right?

that are at our disposal here, right? We've got

We've got national park, we've got state park, we

national park, we've got state park, we have BLM, we have forest service. Uh,

have BLM, we have forest service. Uh, what am I missing? Designated wilderness

what am I missing? Designated wilderness areas, like actual wilderness areas.

areas, like actual wilderness areas. Correct. And

Correct. And you have like the rec Aren't there like

you have like the rec Aren't there like reclamation areas? So outside of Cody

reclamation areas? So outside of Cody there's like bicycle trails or something

there's like bicycle trails or something and they're on a uh a kind of it's not

and they're on a uh a kind of it's not actually BLM but it's similar to it but

actually BLM but it's similar to it but it's not called that. It's like

it's not called that. It's like reclamation or and it's still federal

reclamation or and it's still federal though.

though. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, some sort of

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, some sort of federal designation. And then the last

federal designation. And then the last one would be uh uh Indian land, right? I

one would be uh uh Indian land, right? I mean an Indian reservation and I think

mean an Indian reservation and I think that's those are the and of course

that's those are the and of course private land, right? So th those are the

private land, right? So th those are the designations at our disposal. So which

designations at our disposal. So which of those would cause legal implications?

of those would cause legal implications? Well, probably most of them to a certain

Well, probably most of them to a certain degree, but some certainly more than

degree, but some certainly more than others, right? I mean on one spectrum

others, right? I mean on one spectrum you have something like

you have something like an Indian reservation that is that is

an Indian reservation that is that is problematic for a lot of reasons. Uh but

problematic for a lot of reasons. Uh but on the other side you have something

on the other side you have something like national forest that's certainly

like national forest that's certainly more lenient than I think pretty much

more lenient than I think pretty much anything in between unless it was

anything in between unless it was private land owned by forest where you

private land owned by forest where you pretty much can do whatever he said you

pretty much can do whatever he said you could do which might be pretty much

could do which might be pretty much anything. Uh you know as long as you

anything. Uh you know as long as you know he's not responsible for any

know he's not responsible for any liability. Uh but yeah I mean I think

liability. Uh but yeah I mean I think it's interesting to look at it from that

it's interesting to look at it from that perspective is like you know obviously

perspective is like you know obviously there's some legal concerns here. So

there's some legal concerns here. So which of those designations

which of those designations would help drive the answers that he's

would help drive the answers that he's given? And you know national park is

given? And you know national park is certainly near the top. I mean I think

certainly near the top. I mean I think Indian reservation would be at the top

Indian reservation would be at the top and um you know depending on the type of

and um you know depending on the type of private land

private land who owns the chest after it was found.

who owns the chest after it was found. How about fishing game? So you know

How about fishing game? So you know Justin in Sunlight Basin there were

Justin in Sunlight Basin there were there were some side areas that were

there were some side areas that were definitely governed by federal fishing

definitely governed by federal fishing game. What kind of regulations do they

game. What kind of regulations do they have?

have? So, fishing game is I I don't know all

So, fishing game is I I don't know all the implications, but I'm not aware of

the implications, but I'm not aware of any additional restrictions that would

any additional restrictions that would only apply to fishing game. As far as I

only apply to fishing game. As far as I know, it's mostly in line with what

know, it's mostly in line with what you'd see for any other uh national

you'd see for any other uh national forest designation.

forest designation. Um, but you know, that that may vary by

Um, but you know, that that may vary by state. I I don't know.

I'm definitely Okay, so the chat is saying, let's see, what do we have?

saying, let's see, what do we have? We definitely have kind of a split chat

We definitely have kind of a split chat as far as we have 100% as far as it

as far as we have 100% as far as it being in Yellowstone. KPro says

being in Yellowstone. KPro says Yellowstone. Um,

Yellowstone. Um, yes, 99.99999%

yes. So, I mean, and we have a no from Zoza Rocks.

Zoza Rocks. Stuck in Chase Landia says M. I have no

Stuck in Chase Landia says M. I have no idea what that means.

idea what that means. Montana.

Montana. Um 99% it was in Yellowstone National

Um 99% it was in Yellowstone National Park. Uh so so I think a lot of people

Park. Uh so so I think a lot of people are leaning towards Yellowstone, which

are leaning towards Yellowstone, which you know, part of that kills me just

you know, part of that kills me just because when I was working on it, I kept

because when I was working on it, I kept thinking there's no way it would be in

thinking there's no way it would be in Yellowstone. you know, it's just so

Yellowstone. you know, it's just so complicated there, you know, like how

complicated there, you know, like how could you get around all of the rules

could you get around all of the rules and laws and all that kind of stuff to

and laws and all that kind of stuff to give somebody something like in the um

give somebody something like in the um in the CBS Sunday Morning interview

in the CBS Sunday Morning interview where he says, "What if there's not a

where he says, "What if there's not a problem?"

problem?" And I'm like, "Well, that rules out

And I'm like, "Well, that rules out Yellowstone, right?"

Yellowstone, right?" Well, see that I'm not going full

Well, see that I'm not going full circle.

circle. He he So, when I first started The

He he So, when I first started The Chase, I thought, "Oh, yeah, Yellowstone

Chase, I thought, "Oh, yeah, Yellowstone makes a makes sense." It's like his

makes a makes sense." It's like his memoir is about it. He's in love with

memoir is about it. He's in love with Yellowstone. Let's take it at face

Yellowstone. Let's take it at face value. Let's just go to it. Right.

value. Let's just go to it. Right. Right.

Right. And then I start thinking about the

And then I start thinking about the legal implication. It's like, well, no

legal implication. It's like, well, no way. Like this sounds really scary to

way. Like this sounds really scary to hide it in a national park. There's a

hide it in a national park. There's a lot of problems here. Why would he?

lot of problems here. Why would he? What if?

What if? But then I came full circle and said

But then I came full circle and said really one of the few places that can

really one of the few places that can make sense is Yellowstone. And what I

make sense is Yellowstone. And what I landed on was, and I know I've mentioned

landed on was, and I know I've mentioned this before, so I apologize for

this before, so I apologize for repeating myself, but

repeating myself, but I think it is important. And that is

I think it is important. And that is the land designation

the land designation has an impact on the stability of the

has an impact on the stability of the land, right? So national forest, I mean

land, right? So national forest, I mean you can you can that can be leased out

you can you can that can be leased out for for activities like logging,

for for activities like logging, stripping the land. I mean it's not

stripping the land. I mean it's not ironclad. Things can happen there.

ironclad. Things can happen there. BLM is even worse.

BLM is even worse. And so you think about the kinds of

And so you think about the kinds of areas where

areas where Wait, how is BLM worse? BLM

Wait, how is BLM worse? BLM volatility.

volatility. I'm sorry, ma'am.

I'm sorry, ma'am. In terms of volatility change and

In terms of volatility change and Oh, right. Because it's not such a

Oh, right. Because it's not such a strong designation as far as being

strong designation as far as being changed through through Congress through

changed through through Congress through that kind of stuff.

that kind of stuff. That's right. Yeah. And so I'm looking

That's right. Yeah. And so I'm looking at places that are really protected

at places that are really protected because those are the types of places

because those are the types of places that have the most stability for the

that have the most stability for the land that's in that boundary. So

land that's in that boundary. So very stable land would be something like

very stable land would be something like a national park or a wilderness area. I

a national park or a wilderness area. I mean, you know, you think about a

mean, you know, you think about a wilderness area and that's like the gold

wilderness area and that's like the gold standard of conservation of land.

standard of conservation of land. Like if you get wilderness designation,

Like if you get wilderness designation, you're home free. You can't do anything

you're home free. You can't do anything there,

there, right?

right? And yes, there is wilderness area very

And yes, there is wilderness area very close to national park that's or to

close to national park that's or to Yellowstone that is interesting, too.

Yellowstone that is interesting, too. But those are the types of lands that

But those are the types of lands that are most interesting to me because

are most interesting to me because they're stable. They'll be stable for

they're stable. They'll be stable for years to come. Yeah. Yeah.

years to come. Yeah. Yeah. And Yellowstone.

So you I think Yellowstone is also on people's

I think Yellowstone is also on people's radars because

radars because um correct me if I'm wrong but Twice

um correct me if I'm wrong but Twice Forest

Forest didn't need to say I placed it on the

didn't need to say I placed it on the ground but he sort of went out of his

ground but he sort of went out of his way to say essentially hey I didn't bury

way to say essentially hey I didn't bury it just in a way that sort of raised

it just in a way that sort of raised eyebrow why is he doing that I mean he

eyebrow why is he doing that I mean he didn't say he didn't say very much

didn't say he didn't say very much uh between June 6th and his passing but

uh between June 6th and his passing but I believe twice he said,

I believe twice he said, you know, hello everyone. I just placed

you know, hello everyone. I just placed it on the ground. So, there's that. And

it on the ground. So, there's that. And now we have

now we have I mean I um maybe this is happening or

I mean I um maybe this is happening or maybe I'm wrong, but I did think it was

maybe I'm wrong, but I did think it was interesting that um

interesting that um Jack didn't need to tell people about

Jack didn't need to tell people about explicit permission, but he kept saying

explicit permission, but he kept saying to many different people, hey, by the

to many different people, hey, by the way, I got explicit permission. I got

way, I got explicit permission. I got and now we're talking about it and

and now we're talking about it and everybody knows. So

everybody knows. So I think these things, you know, might be

I think these things, you know, might be kind of laying the ground

kind of laying the ground precedence.

precedence. Yeah. Although I did float this with

Yeah. Although I did float this with Justin. I was like, there's really no,

Justin. I was like, there's really no, you know, court of public opinion for

you know, court of public opinion for something like this, right? It's not

something like this, right? It's not like we're

like we're so I don't I don't really know, but I do

so I don't I don't really know, but I do know that people are thinking about this

know that people are thinking about this and it and it makes them, you know,

and it and it makes them, you know, makes them look at Yellowstone.

makes them look at Yellowstone. We are all leaning towards Yellowstone.

We are all leaning towards Yellowstone. Well, so combine all of this these land

Well, so combine all of this these land designations and, you know, the sanctity

designations and, you know, the sanctity of the land with the video clip that he

of the land with the video clip that he sends out about wheelbarrows.

I mean, what do you get from that? Wait, which video clip?

Wait, which video clip? Tell me you saw the clip.

Tell me you saw the clip. I don't know if I did. It's been crazy.

I don't know if I did. It's been crazy. You would know. You would know if you

You would know. You would know if you saw it. It's about wheelbarrows. It's

saw it. It's about wheelbarrows. It's about weird. Wait, the one that's

about weird. Wait, the one that's referenced in his video in his

referenced in his video in his in Fargo. It's a scene in Fargo.

in Fargo. It's a scene in Fargo. Fargo one where he says, you know, I

Fargo one where he says, you know, I love I always loved this where he talks

love I always loved this where he talks about

about the point of that. I don't know what

the point of that. I don't know what connection you're making, Justin. I

connection you're making, Justin. I don't know what connection you're

don't know what connection you're making. I I took it to simply mean that

making. I I took it to simply mean that you you know, you can't see the forest

you you know, you can't see the forest for the trees. You can't you can't see

for the trees. You can't you can't see what's right in front of you.

what's right in front of you. It's obvious,

It's obvious, right? You can't see the obvious. Yeah.

right? You can't see the obvious. Yeah. Right. And so you read the memoir as a

Right. And so you read the memoir as a memoir. You you talk about these land

memoir. You you talk about these land designations

designations and you know what would make sense and

and you know what would make sense and what wouldn't

what wouldn't you know it's like it it strongly hints

you know it's like it it strongly hints towards Yellowstone in many ways. I I

towards Yellowstone in many ways. I I it's hard to ignore that.

it's hard to ignore that. Yeah. Uh speaking of clips, he also um

Yeah. Uh speaking of clips, he also um pointed everyone to a TED talk. Did

pointed everyone to a TED talk. Did y'all watch that? I haven't seen that

y'all watch that? I haven't seen that one, but I think it's actually one that

one, but I think it's actually one that I have saved in my list. I think I've

I have saved in my list. I think I've actually watched it before. Have you

actually watched it before. Have you watched it?

watched it? Yes. Well, what's interesting is that

Yes. Well, what's interesting is that the person who's giving this TED talk um

the person who's giving this TED talk um as an illustration pulls out a dowsing

as an illustration pulls out a dowsing rod or or is that what it's called? Or

rod or or is that what it's called? Or like finding spirits or whatever. And I

like finding spirits or whatever. And I immediately

immediately Cynthia has used that in one of her

Cynthia has used that in one of her videos by the way. Just just saying

videos by the way. Just just saying she did. Yes.

she did. Yes. I spoke to forest spirit using those.

I spoke to forest spirit using those. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. So, what did you think of that video,

So, what did you think of that video, Matt?

Matt? The TED talk or

The TED talk or Yeah, the TED talk.

Yeah, the TED talk. Oh, well, it was good. I mean, it was

Oh, well, it was good. I mean, it was kind of um

kind of um he his I I love his video. I mean,

he his I I love his video. I mean, yeah.

yeah. We're not just talking about um an

We're not just talking about um an intelligent,

intelligent, intuitive searcher. I mean, I want to

intuitive searcher. I mean, I want to listen to folks like that, but no, we're

listen to folks like that, but no, we're talking about we're talking about the

talking about we're talking about the person who found it. So, we're we're

person who found it. So, we're we're traveling back in time.

traveling back in time. He knew the general area and he was, you

He knew the general area and he was, you know, he was getting closer and closer

know, he was getting closer and closer and now we get to, you know,

and now we get to, you know, and he knew it right away

and he knew it right away to get his thinking. I mean, he answered

to get his thinking. I mean, he answered so many questions.

so many questions. If you've ever wondered

If you've ever wondered where we should go on the imagination

where we should go on the imagination logic continuum, that video tells you.

logic continuum, that video tells you. I could see that.

I could see that. And I mean, so many things are answered

And I mean, so many things are answered in that in that um cognitive bias video.

in that in that um cognitive bias video. It's it's really excellent. Um he his

It's it's really excellent. Um he his interest is not I I could go on and on.

interest is not I I could go on and on. his interest is not in um you know

his interest is not in um you know arguing for a geographic location or

arguing for a geographic location or against a geographic location, but there

against a geographic location, but there is a little bit in there where he is

is a little bit in there where he is kind of um not really anti- New Mexico,

kind of um not really anti- New Mexico, but kind of he I guess he kind of shoots

but kind of he I guess he kind of shoots down a common argument that is made for

down a common argument that is made for New Mexico.

New Mexico. Yes. The only point I bring the only

Yes. The only point I bring the only reason I bring it up is because it it

reason I bring it up is because it it it's part of a uh cohesive

it's part of a uh cohesive uh story that there's veracity here, you

uh story that there's veracity here, you know, as we look at something from 2019

know, as we look at something from 2019 because people are coming up with all

because people are coming up with all kind of conspiracies forest tapped this

kind of conspiracies forest tapped this guy or whatever like

guy or whatever like of course.

of course. Okay. But so anyway, there's I think

Okay. But so anyway, there's I think there's lots of good stuff in there.

there's lots of good stuff in there. It's it's science-based. It's the best

It's it's science-based. It's the best explanation I heard about uh

explanation I heard about uh confirmation bias and um and it's just

confirmation bias and um and it's just it's just fun. It's it's really good.

it's just fun. It's it's really good. It's very well done.

It's very well done. I'll make sure to put a link in the

I'll make sure to put a link in the description.

description. I mean, think about the timeline for

I mean, think about the timeline for that video. I hope I'm not like blowing

that video. I hope I'm not like blowing all your content for your video that

all your content for your video that you're creating.

you're creating. About half of it.

About half of it. This is my video.

This is my video. Can we talk about Can we talk about the

Can we talk about Can we talk about the fact that

fact that this is my video

this is my video that your your video is upcoming? I

that your your video is upcoming? I mean, I know there are people like me

mean, I know there are people like me who just love your videos.

who just love your videos. I mean,

I mean, videos are phenomenal.

videos are phenomenal. I was just I was just going to kind of

I was just I was just going to kind of synthesize, look at the material,

synthesize, look at the material, illustrate some some things, talk about

illustrate some some things, talk about connections, and just sort of create a

connections, and just sort of create a space for people to talk or whatever.

space for people to talk or whatever. But, um,

But, um, so if anyone is unfamiliar at this

so if anyone is unfamiliar at this point, um, Matt is

point, um, Matt is I'm retired.

I'm retired. Cynthia wants out of retirement. Cynthy,

Cynthia wants out of retirement. Cynthy, I I have to say I'm really grateful that

I I have to say I'm really grateful that Cynthia pushed you to doing this because

Cynthia pushed you to doing this because I so appreciate your analysis of Forest

I so appreciate your analysis of Forest and Forest loved your analysis. I mean,

and Forest loved your analysis. I mean, honestly, I was surprised that Forest

honestly, I was surprised that Forest didn't ask you to do his audio

didn't ask you to do his audio autobiography

autobiography because your analysis of Forest was so

because your analysis of Forest was so spot-on and so beautifully done. It's so

spot-on and so beautifully done. It's so anyone who's not familiar, Matt is

anyone who's not familiar, Matt is Smelled the Sunshine on YouTube and he's

Smelled the Sunshine on YouTube and he's the one who did these, you know, very

the one who did these, you know, very PBS style um Ken Burn style videos. No,

PBS style um Ken Burn style videos. No, don't shake your head. And and the like

don't shake your head. And and the like the audio is excellent, too. I'm just

the audio is excellent, too. I'm just like, my god, that is amazing narrative.

like, my god, that is amazing narrative. So, um so he will be doing uh he's

So, um so he will be doing uh he's putting together right now. Who knows

putting together right now. Who knows when it will come out. No pressure, but

when it will come out. No pressure, but Cynthia Cynthia was like, "Do a video.

Cynthia Cynthia was like, "Do a video. Do a video." And um so a video will be

Do a video." And um so a video will be coming out on his channel, Smell the

coming out on his channel, Smell the Sunshine, about some of the stuff that's

Sunshine, about some of the stuff that's been coming out with Jack.

been coming out with Jack. And I'm sorry to plug you and embarrass

And I'm sorry to plug you and embarrass you, but I I just I always appreciated

you, but I I just I always appreciated your analysis because it was so it was

your analysis because it was so it was spot-on. Forest himself loved it. You

spot-on. Forest himself loved it. You know, who is this guy? Wait, do you know

know, who is this guy? Wait, do you know anyone know who this guy is? Who is this

anyone know who this guy is? Who is this guy who's produced this video that just

guy who's produced this video that just is so spot-on? And um I'm guessing that

is so spot-on? And um I'm guessing that Jack watched your videos, too. Did Did

Jack watched your videos, too. Did Did you ever let him know who you were when

you ever let him know who you were when you emailed him?

you emailed him? Uh no. No.

Uh no. No. You know, it's hard to it's hard to

You know, it's hard to it's hard to gauge. Um

gauge. Um it

it you should have been like I'm kind of a

you should have been like I'm kind of a big deal. Just so you know,

big deal. Just so you know, just just so you know, I'm I'm kind of a

just just so you know, I'm I'm kind of a big deal.

big deal. He's kind of a big deal.

He's kind of a big deal. Yes, of course.

Yes, of course. And you know, we I mean YouTube is one

And you know, we I mean YouTube is one thing and Facebook is kind of its own

thing and Facebook is kind of its own little thing and there are some people I

little thing and there are some people I think who are still in the forums and so

think who are still in the forums and so there are some little enclaves.

there are some little enclaves. What's interesting is that um

What's interesting is that um you know Jack Jack was not an outsider.

you know Jack Jack was not an outsider. That's another thing about the cognitive

That's another thing about the cognitive bias video. You listen to that,

bias video. You listen to that, he he mentions AGK right at the top.

he he mentions AGK right at the top. He knows all the lingo.

He knows all the lingo. He was supposed to be on AGK. I mean,

He was supposed to be on AGK. I mean, I'm like, "Oh my god, what would

I'm like, "Oh my god, what would So, um, anyway, yeah, and that would

So, um, anyway, yeah, and that would have been interesting if he had I guess

have been interesting if he had I guess he was booked and he was cancelled. What

he was booked and he was cancelled. What if he had gone on there and it had it

if he had gone on there and it had it would have been a success. Toby would

would have been a success. Toby would have loved him. Uh, Shelley would have

have loved him. Uh, Shelley would have loved him. He It would have been a great

loved him. He It would have been a great show.

show. Yes.

Yes. So, what what does that mean? Would he

So, what what does that mean? Would he have become more active and we would

have become more active and we would have known him and he would have made

have known him and he would have made more videos? And

more videos? And that was one of my questions.

that was one of my questions. Reality where he's more involved in the

Reality where he's more involved in the community, you know,

community, you know, right? Because he did attempt to be more

right? Because he did attempt to be more involved and it just didn't work out.

involved and it just didn't work out. He said he's like, "Hey guys, this is my

He said he's like, "Hey guys, this is my first video." So, you get the idea that

first video." So, you get the idea that he's going to make more.

he's going to make more. And he left it up, you know, he left

And he left it up, you know, he left that video up after he knew. Like, I

that video up after he knew. Like, I know there's options to scrub your

know there's options to scrub your information um from the internet before

information um from the internet before something like this happens, right? Um I

something like this happens, right? Um I I know there was it was done before, but

I know there was it was done before, but I won't go into that, but anyway. Um you

I won't go into that, but anyway. Um you know, but he decided to leave that video

know, but he decided to leave that video up and post the video that he had of the

up and post the video that he had of the uncut interview for Outside magazine.

uncut interview for Outside magazine. Um which I, you know, I guess it's it's

Um which I, you know, I guess it's it's so crazy to be in a position where

so crazy to be in a position where so many people are like, "We're never

so many people are like, "We're never going to know anything ever, right?" And

going to know anything ever, right?" And we're like trying to trying to face

we're like trying to trying to face that. It's like, okay, I spent whatever

that. It's like, okay, I spent whatever years of my life devoted to this. I

years of my life devoted to this. I spent whatever time, whatever money, and

spent whatever time, whatever money, and I'm never going to know anything more,

I'm never going to know anything more, right? And then all of a sudden, we have

right? And then all of a sudden, we have a finder. And he's answering emails.

a finder. And he's answering emails. It's like, it's kind of mind-blowing.

It's like, it's kind of mind-blowing. And he's answering emails to so many

And he's answering emails to so many people. Um, you know, I know that for

people. Um, you know, I know that for anyone watching, I know that KPro has a

anyone watching, I know that KPro has a lot of these emails that she's been uh

lot of these emails that she's been uh accumulating as far as like so that way

accumulating as far as like so that way everyone can eventually know. We have

everyone can eventually know. We have hint of riches and then I'm sure she's

hint of riches and then I'm sure she's going to be live on Monday to share a

going to be live on Monday to share a lot of this stuff. And so we've got um

lot of this stuff. And so we've got um all this information that's a little bit

all this information that's a little bit scattered, which of course we all hate.

scattered, which of course we all hate. You know, we all hate that it's

You know, we all hate that it's scattered. We're just like, "No, no, no.

scattered. We're just like, "No, no, no. It's got to be in one place." But we're

It's got to be in one place." But we're like doing our best. were like, "Okay,

like doing our best. were like, "Okay, okay. Let's try and accumulate this and

okay. Let's try and accumulate this and and and try and have it in one place."

and and try and have it in one place." And um and so many things are actually

And um and so many things are actually being answered and and obviously a lot

being answered and and obviously a lot of them are are making us say, "Okay, if

of them are are making us say, "Okay, if that then what about this?" Like I know

that then what about this?" Like I know I'm I'm just dying to know about the

I'm I'm just dying to know about the blaze. It's like damn it, right? So,

blaze. It's like damn it, right? So, like why not answer, you know, if the

like why not answer, you know, if the blaze was damaged or destroyed, if we

blaze was damaged or destroyed, if we try and solve it now, what chance do we

try and solve it now, what chance do we have of actually knowing if we solved

have of actually knowing if we solved it? If the blaze is a physical object in

it? If the blaze is a physical object in the field that tells us we found the

the field that tells us we found the right spot

right spot if it's damaged or destroyed, how do we

if it's damaged or destroyed, how do we know if we have the right spot if we

know if we have the right spot if we keep searching?

keep searching? Yeah, that's one of the things that

Yeah, that's one of the things that really bothers me is that, you know, I

really bothers me is that, you know, I think the the messaging that I'm getting

think the the messaging that I'm getting for Jack, from Jack, and again, I'm

for Jack, from Jack, and again, I'm paraphrasing, but as I understand it,

paraphrasing, but as I understand it, it's it's something to the effect of,

it's it's something to the effect of, well, you'll know when you're there. You

well, you'll know when you're there. You know, it's it's a special place. Like

know, it's it's a special place. Like things will line up and you'll know. And

things will line up and you'll know. And that's a lot of faith.

that's a lot of faith. You know, the thing about that is it's

You know, the thing about that is it's like it goes both ways. like, you know,

like it goes both ways. like, you know, for someone who has very early on in the

for someone who has very early on in the search honed in on a particular area and

search honed in on a particular area and an area that happened to be correct,

an area that happened to be correct, right? You you didn't have a lot of lot

right? You you didn't have a lot of lot of breadth of searches or areas to

of breadth of searches or areas to really say, you know, like what speaks

really say, you know, like what speaks to forest and what doesn't because you

to forest and what doesn't because you nailed it. Bravo. You nailed it straight

nailed it. Bravo. You nailed it straight away. But

away. But nailed it. I guarantee that if you spend

nailed it. I guarantee that if you spend enough time and you look enough places,

enough time and you look enough places, you will find other places that speak

you will find other places that speak that feel funny uh and and seem poetic,

that feel funny uh and and seem poetic, almost too poetic.

almost too poetic. And so I fit perfectly.

And so I fit perfectly. Yeah. I I I maintain that it's not

Yeah. I I I maintain that it's not reasonable to say that well, you'll know

reasonable to say that well, you'll know when you're there.

when you're there. I guess I just don't agree. Um because

I guess I just don't agree. Um because I've seen some of those places that are

I've seen some of those places that are that line up

that line up just perfectly and and you'd think how

just perfectly and and you'd think how could it not be here like this I mean

could it not be here like this I mean how could it really how could this not

how could it really how could this not be the place

be the place and it wasn't so I I guess I maintain

and it wasn't so I I guess I maintain that we need more

that we need more like something else has to give in order

like something else has to give in order for us to have

for us to have that utmost confidence and that kind of

that utmost confidence and that kind of goes back to the comment earlier where I

goes back to the comment earlier where I was talking about there are folks that

was talking about there are folks that would like to actually discover this on

would like to actually discover this on their own

their own it would be wonderful to have that

it would be wonderful to have that opportunity and And I think the only way

opportunity and And I think the only way you're going to have that opportunity is

you're going to have that opportunity is if there is something there

if there is something there that you can validate and say, "Yes,

that you can validate and say, "Yes, I did it." Like, "This is the spot."

I did it." Like, "This is the spot." I mean, if if he could leave a trinket

I mean, if if he could leave a trinket behind, if he could mention something in

behind, if he could mention something in the area that,

the area that, you know, wouldn't give it away at all,

you know, wouldn't give it away at all, but when you're there, you'd see it and

but when you're there, you'd see it and go, "Okay,

go, "Okay, we got it.

we got it. This is it. You know, we we nailed it."

This is it. You know, we we nailed it." Something to that effect would be beyond

Something to that effect would be beyond helpful. I I for one would would really

helpful. I I for one would would really appreciate that. I felt, you know, it

appreciate that. I felt, you know, it was funny because I had actually emailed

was funny because I had actually emailed him and I blamed Forest for this. Forest

him and I blamed Forest for this. Forest always teased me because he said I

always teased me because he said I wasn't

wasn't risky enough, adventurous enough, you

risky enough, adventurous enough, you know, he always teased me because he was

know, he always teased me because he was just like, you know, it's like you play

just like, you know, it's like you play it safe too much, right? And so I

it safe too much, right? And so I actually emailed um Jack a list of a

actually emailed um Jack a list of a whole bunch of questions uh dealing with

whole bunch of questions uh dealing with how do we know 100% if we're going to

how do we know 100% if we're going to still keep searching for this? Is there

still keep searching for this? Is there any way to possibly know and stuff like

any way to possibly know and stuff like that? And I'm like, shoot. And he's

that? And I'm like, shoot. And he's like, he he was very sweet. I mean, he's

like, he he was very sweet. I mean, he's been extremely tolerant as far as how

been extremely tolerant as far as how many questions he's been ask or

many questions he's been ask or answering. And he's like, maybe just

answering. And he's like, maybe just five questions. And I'm just like I'm

five questions. And I'm just like I'm like, right, right. I'm sorry, but I had

like, right, right. I'm sorry, but I had to take the risk. You know, you know, I

to take the risk. You know, you know, I I'm I'm never out on the edge. And so I

I'm I'm never out on the edge. And so I did. And and it was really hard

did. And and it was really hard narrowing narrowing down five questions

narrowing narrowing down five questions to ask when it has to do with this kind

to ask when it has to do with this kind of stuff because I'm like, you know, if

of stuff because I'm like, you know, if the blaze is damaged and and um and

the blaze is damaged and and um and stupidly I I mean I meant to do five and

stupidly I I mean I meant to do five and as I reread the email I did six, but you

as I reread the email I did six, but you know, granted it's been a rough week and

know, granted it's been a rough week and a half, so I do want I do want a little

a half, so I do want I do want a little break on that. But um one of the

break on that. But um one of the questions he didn't answer was that

questions he didn't answer was that sick, you know, was that question in

sick, you know, was that question in between about the blaze? Because I'm

between about the blaze? Because I'm like, if we're going to keep searching,

like, if we're going to keep searching, there has to be something that will

there has to be something that will allow us to know for sure if we found

allow us to know for sure if we found the spot other than, oo, this is

the spot other than, oo, this is definitely it,

definitely it, you know, because everyone found a spot

you know, because everyone found a spot that they knew 100% sure this was it.

that they knew 100% sure this was it. You know, I I I mean, I've I've received

You know, I I I mean, I've I've received so many emails and I've tried to respond

so many emails and I've tried to respond to all of them and I know I haven't

to all of them and I know I haven't responded to all of them about people

responded to all of them about people who said obviously I've solved it

who said obviously I've solved it because it can't be anything else and

because it can't be anything else and they're 100% convinced and and Jack

they're 100% convinced and and Jack happened to be right about his area,

happened to be right about his area, right? And he said he had what was it?

right? And he said he had what was it? You know, I mean, it was how soon after

You know, I mean, it was how soon after he had bought the thrill of the chase,

he had bought the thrill of the chase, he had already had his search area,

he had already had his search area, right? That leads me back to the people

right? That leads me back to the people who had um gotten within 500 to 200 feet

who had um gotten within 500 to 200 feet without completely solving it, but just

without completely solving it, but just doing the geographical thing, right?

doing the geographical thing, right? Like pairing things up. This goes with

Like pairing things up. This goes with this. This goes with this. So, this

this. This goes with this. So, this might be the area, and I'm going to

might be the area, and I'm going to search the heck out of it.

search the heck out of it. Yep.

Yep. I mean,

I mean, yeah. I mean, I I maintain that the I

yeah. I mean, I I maintain that the I don't think it's I don't think it's that

don't think it's I don't think it's that damned hard, you know. You know,

damned hard, you know. You know, more than several people within two

more than several people within two years.

years. Yeah. Within two years, people had

Yeah. Within two years, people had become had come within 200 feet of the

become had come within 200 feet of the treasure. Within two years, people had

treasure. Within two years, people had done that without technically solving

done that without technically solving it. they had come within 200 feet of the

it. they had come within 200 feet of the treasure, you know, by just matching it

treasure, you know, by just matching it up geographically.

up geographically. So, obviously, you can get a search area

So, obviously, you can get a search area pretty fast that way and then just

pretty fast that way and then just search the crap out of it. But then, if

search the crap out of it. But then, if the blaze is damaged or destroyed, how

the blaze is damaged or destroyed, how are you ever going to know if you have

are you ever going to know if you have the right nook?

the right nook? That's right. That's the problem, I

That's right. That's the problem, I think, is it? And let me clarify that. I

think, is it? And let me clarify that. I mean, it is hard. Don't get me Don't get

mean, it is hard. Don't get me Don't get me wrong. It was It's clearly very

me wrong. It was It's clearly very challenging. I guess what I meant was

challenging. I guess what I meant was the starting location I don't think is

the starting location I don't think is that hard. You know, more than several

that hard. You know, more than several people continue to get the first two

people continue to get the first two clues correct. We've got people coming

clues correct. We've got people coming within a couple hundred feet of this,

within a couple hundred feet of this, but they didn't know they had

but they didn't know they had significance of it.

significance of it. Yeah. And they're missing something. So,

Yeah. And they're missing something. So, what that that tells me is that these

what that that tells me is that these first two clues weren't that hard. And

first two clues weren't that hard. And he says they get progressively easier,

he says they get progressively easier, but clearly they didn't because folks

but clearly they didn't because folks went right on past that third clue and

went right on past that third clue and didn't notice it. Right. I mean,

didn't notice it. Right. I mean, that's a that's another quote from the

that's a that's another quote from the um from the raw footage video. Cynthia,

um from the raw footage video. Cynthia, do you have that committed to memory

do you have that committed to memory yet?

yet? The one from outside magazine.

The one from outside magazine. You have to basically you have to have

You have to basically you have to have the first clue and then he said after

the first clue and then he said after that it's academic.

that it's academic. Academic academic academic

Academic academic academic sorry

sorry quoted the one which didn't get a lot of

quoted the one which didn't get a lot of attention. Um, the progressively easier

attention. Um, the progressively easier quotation. I always thought that people

quotation. I always thought that people should quote that more often.

should quote that more often. Yes, it gets progressively Oh, sorry.

Yes, it gets progressively Oh, sorry. I'm totally too excited.

I'm totally too excited. That's fine. But in that raw footage

That's fine. But in that raw footage video, he's he kind of has a different

video, he's he kind of has a different take on it. You need to you need to have

take on it. You need to you need to have the first clue. You got to know where to

the first clue. You got to know where to start and then after that it's academic.

start and then after that it's academic. Really?

Really? Okay. So, what I want to know, Matt, so

Okay. So, what I want to know, Matt, so what is your interpretation of academic?

what is your interpretation of academic? Because for me it had to do with not

Because for me it had to do with not boots on the ground, but that's, you

boots on the ground, but that's, you know, open to interpretation.

know, open to interpretation. Oh, no. That's I mean that expression I

Oh, no. That's I mean that expression I think um

think um it's um not quite a foregone conclusion,

it's um not quite a foregone conclusion, but it's straightforward.

but it's straightforward. Somebody should look it up. But isn't it

Somebody should look it up. But isn't it some something along those lines?

some something along those lines? So academic meaning it's obvious.

So academic meaning it's obvious. Yeah. Yeah. Straightforward. It's it's

Yeah. Yeah. Straightforward. It's it's clear

clear and it's like everything it's like

and it's like everything it's like everything hanging on that one thing.

everything hanging on that one thing. Now

Now we have we have in this in this not so

we have we have in this in this not so vast body of literature from Jack

vast body of literature from Jack a clear picture is emerging.

a clear picture is emerging. Yes.

Yes. And you'll have a difficult time uh

And you'll have a difficult time uh finding Jack saying that what you need

finding Jack saying that what you need to do is solve that first clue and then

to do is solve that first clue and then yada yada. That wasn't him at his MO.

yada yada. That wasn't him at his MO. Good.

Good. It was final resting place,

It was final resting place, right?

right? Slip ups,

Slip ups, you know, and then like know the man

you know, and then like know the man close reading of a text

close reading of a text and he had it within like two weeks.

and he had it within like two weeks. The blaze figures in more prominently in

The blaze figures in more prominently in his method than the first clue. It's

his method than the first clue. It's I mean it it has appeared now in a

I mean it it has appeared now in a number of places and it's so consistent

number of places and it's so consistent you know

you know flipups final resting place blaze

flipups final resting place blaze I I think we have you know the big

I I think we have you know the big pieces of of you know what led him

pieces of of you know what led him there.

there. Do you think it's solvable from that if

Do you think it's solvable from that if we incorporate Yellowstone as being the

we incorporate Yellowstone as being the area?

area? Well, I'd have to I'd have to just tell

Well, I'd have to I'd have to just tell you what my thinking is. And I don't

you what my thinking is. And I don't think Justin wants me to.

think Justin wants me to. I I never said that. I just think that

I I never said that. I just think that um you want to save something for your

um you want to save something for your video, right? I mean,

video, right? I mean, I wasn't going to put that in my video.

I wasn't going to put that in my video. Oh, okay.

Oh, okay. I mean,

I mean, okay, you're killing me. Please say

okay, you're killing me. Please say please. you know,

please. you know, um the the finder

um the the finder Justin,

Justin, we've we've all been wrong except for

we've we've all been wrong except for one person.

one person. Except for one person.

Except for one person. This one person

This one person um

um has told us um

has told us um uh I've lost my train of thought. I He

uh I've lost my train of thought. I He told us a lot of things in the cognitive

told us a lot of things in the cognitive bias video. Justin doesn't want me to

bias video. Justin doesn't want me to give this away. What's wrong with you?

give this away. What's wrong with you? Wait, it's okay if Justin doesn't

Wait, it's okay if Justin doesn't Justin. Yes or no? I mean, if it's no,

Justin. Yes or no? I mean, if it's no, it's okay. It's fine. It's fine.

it's okay. It's fine. It's fine. I mean, you know what is

I mean, you know what is Okay.

Okay. The game's over, guys. I mean, there's

The game's over, guys. I mean, there's no chess there. So, it's like, you know,

no chess there. So, it's like, you know, it it I don't I Go for it, Matt. How's

it it I don't I Go for it, Matt. How's that?

that? Okay. I just say he said um he said the

Okay. I just say he said um he said the the biggest the biggest hint or the best

the biggest the biggest hint or the best advice I can't remember exactly that

advice I can't remember exactly that Forest ever gave us was

Forest ever gave us was read the book normally.

read the book normally. Yes.

Yes. And it's like those damn wheelbarls.

And it's like those damn wheelbarls. It's just like what? He puts out one

It's just like what? He puts out one video and it's about the way the brain

video and it's about the way the brain works. What?

works. What? But it's so simple. It's so

But it's so simple. It's so straightforward. And now he says,

straightforward. And now he says, "Here's the most important thing that

"Here's the most important thing that Forest ever said, and everybody's

Forest ever said, and everybody's hanging on the edge of their seats. Read

hanging on the edge of their seats. Read the book normally."

the book normally." And what does he say in the book? He

And what does he say in the book? He So, I was thinking about that. I was

So, I was thinking about that. I was thinking, this is what I got all excited

thinking, this is what I got all excited about the other day.

about the other day. I I think if you take that at face

I I think if you take that at face value, that that's the most that's the

value, that that's the most that's the best piece of advice Forest ever gave.

best piece of advice Forest ever gave. Read the book normally.

Read the book normally. Well, then the and if you just read it

Well, then the and if you just read it as a memoir, the the memoir tells you

as a memoir, the the memoir tells you where he wants to die.

where he wants to die. There's a whole chapter on it.

There's a whole chapter on it. There's a whole chapter on where this

There's a whole chapter on where this man wants to die.

man wants to die. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not a big mystery. I mean,

It's not a big mystery. I mean, he wants to go back.

he wants to go back. It's right there in the book.

It's right there in the book. It's right in the book. If you read it

It's right in the book. If you read it normally, just like a memoir, you close

normally, just like a memoir, you close the thing and somebody says, "Where does

the thing and somebody says, "Where does this guy want to die?" He wants to die

this guy want to die?" He wants to die in Yellowstone. He wants to die along a

in Yellowstone. He wants to die along a stream

stream in some trees where he used to fish as a

in some trees where he used to fish as a kid. There's a whole chapter on it.

kid. There's a whole chapter on it. Now, does that narrow it down to three

Now, does that narrow it down to three football fields? I don't know.

football fields? I don't know. Well, so if you take that a step further

Well, so if you take that a step further and you say, "Look, there's a whole

and you say, "Look, there's a whole chapter on this, right? I mean, we all

chapter on this, right? I mean, we all know it's flywater." Like, I mean, he

know it's flywater." Like, I mean, he when he closes his tackle box for the

when he closes his tackle box for the last time, right? Now then he mentions,

last time, right? Now then he mentions, oh well you should look back at some of

oh well you should look back at some of the previous articles.

the previous articles. He does know

He does know that because he tells us to do that.

that because he tells us to do that. He talks about the substitution of

He talks about the substitution of words.

words. Let's let's take that a step further.

Let's let's take that a step further. Let's look at Flywater,

Let's look at Flywater, okay?

okay? And we'll look at the excer excerpts

And we'll look at the excer excerpts from Flywater that came before the

from Flywater that came before the actual memoir

actual memoir and the differences in the articles that

and the differences in the articles that were released. And at first I thought,

were released. And at first I thought, well, maybe that's a slip up, but again,

well, maybe that's a slip up, but again, he says that these were things that

he says that these were things that people didn't notice, but everybody

people didn't notice, but everybody noticed that the fire hole was removed.

noticed that the fire hole was removed. I mean, that was one of the first things

I mean, that was one of the first things I did. You know, you find that you find

I did. You know, you find that you find these articles and you're like, there's

these articles and you're like, there's uh some key differences.

uh some key differences. But I think the Firehole, the Madison,

But I think the Firehole, the Madison, the Yellowstone, these are wheelbarrows.

the Yellowstone, these are wheelbarrows. Ah,

Ah, it's just so obvious.

it's just so obvious. You're killing me. That's the trouble.

You're killing me. That's the trouble. Like

Like you lots of people obviously tons of

you lots of people obviously tons of people have searched the Madison. Tons

people have searched the Madison. Tons of people fire hole. They they they've

of people fire hole. They they they've torn that canyon apart.

torn that canyon apart. I mean I I I feel like I grid searched

I mean I I I feel like I grid searched that entire canyon from top to bottom.

that entire canyon from top to bottom. And obviously I'm empty-handed. So what

And obviously I'm empty-handed. So what is everyone missing? That's the starting

is everyone missing? That's the starting location.

location. It may very well be that is the starting

It may very well be that is the starting location. So

location. So slip ups.

slip ups. Slip ups and blaze. And there's a hint

Slip ups and blaze. And there's a hint about what the blaze is in the book.

about what the blaze is in the book. Yeah, apparently he did say that there's

Yeah, apparently he did say that there's a hint about the blaze, but the blaze

a hint about the blaze, but the blaze has been damaged or destroyed. That's

has been damaged or destroyed. That's what bugged me is in that. Let's see

what bugged me is in that. Let's see here if I can bring it up. When he says

here if I can bring it up. When he says that the blaze has been damaged or

that the blaze has been damaged or destroyed, let's see here.

the blaze could have been damaged knowing that knowing what I knew about

knowing that knowing what I knew about the that location and to try to find

the that location and to try to find that but I didn't feel my chances were

that but I didn't feel my chances were good.

good. So if you look at the history

So if you look at the history of events that have occurred

of events that have occurred Yes.

Yes. in let's say

in let's say Firehole Canyon over the last 10 years.

Firehole Canyon over the last 10 years. Yes.

Yes. What sort of geographic alterations?

What sort of geographic alterations? Yes.

Yes. Have happened.

Have happened. Yes.

Yes. Anybody? Anybody?

Anybody? Anybody? Have you researched this? I'm assuming.

Have you researched this? I'm assuming. Well, we had fire, but that was

Well, we had fire, but that was somebody just in another side car.

I don't know where it's at. I mean, that's

that's Have you looked into that? Have you

Have you looked into that? Have you looked into what has been damaged in

looked into what has been damaged in that area?

that area? Well, sure I have. Yeah.

Well, sure I have. Yeah. Okay. What have you got? Come on. Don't

Okay. What have you got? Come on. Don't kill us.

There was there was one time driving through the park years ago where

driving through the park years ago where I went to go into Firehole Canyon,

I went to go into Firehole Canyon, okay,

okay, during the summer, but Firehole Canyon

during the summer, but Firehole Canyon Drive was closed

Drive was closed and it was closed for a specific reason.

and it was closed for a specific reason. So, it all I'm saying is it might might

So, it all I'm saying is it might might be worthwhile to kind of look at what's

be worthwhile to kind of look at what's what's been going on in the canyon the

what's been going on in the canyon the last decade. What nature-wise in

last decade. What nature-wise in Yellowstone could have damaged and

Yellowstone could have damaged and destroyed anything?

destroyed anything? Sure.

Sure. That might be a blaze.

That might be a blaze. Is that what you're saying?

Is that what you're saying? Could be.

Could be. I mean, I I don't know. I mean, it's

Sorry, Matt laughing makes me laugh. Any guess is good as another. I mean,

Any guess is good as another. I mean, you know, I I don't know.

you know, I I don't know. Right. Okay. I'm going to try and get

Right. Okay. I'm going to try and get Okay, I'm going to scroll real quick

Okay, I'm going to scroll real quick because I know a lot of people have been

because I know a lot of people have been putting at Amy Seeks. I'm going to

putting at Amy Seeks. I'm going to scroll up. Um, Billy Shaw Jr. says,

scroll up. Um, Billy Shaw Jr. says, "When you read Flywater normally, you

"When you read Flywater normally, you may notice what you think is a typo."

may notice what you think is a typo." Wink. Okay. All right. All right. Um,

Wink. Okay. All right. All right. Um, Dee Oh, de. That's like what chickies

Dee Oh, de. That's like what chickies That's the call of a chickity. Dee.

That's the call of a chickity. Dee. Okay. Sorry. Geeking out with the

Okay. Sorry. Geeking out with the biology. Um Amy seeks, you correctly

biology. Um Amy seeks, you correctly perceive that Jack did not solve the

perceive that Jack did not solve the poem. He can claim to be the finder, but

poem. He can claim to be the finder, but he definitely does not know the meaning

he definitely does not know the meaning of all nine clues that need to be

of all nine clues that need to be followed precisely to and then it stops.

followed precisely to and then it stops. Let me just speak to that. Let me just

Let me just speak to that. Let me just speak to that because I said that he

speak to that because I said that he talked about the blaze. I didn't mean to

talked about the blaze. I didn't mean to imply that he he knew what the blaze was

imply that he he knew what the blaze was and nothing else because later on he

and nothing else because later on he says that he had solved all nine clues.

says that he had solved all nine clues. Um, there was one that sitting with

Um, there was one that sitting with Forest, Forest gave him additional

Forest, Forest gave him additional insight about what it meant or the

insight about what it meant or the significance of it, but

significance of it, but Oh, that's right.

Oh, that's right. As Jack worked this thing out, he he he

As Jack worked this thing out, he he he solved he solved the thing,

solved he solved the thing, but he may he may have kind of gone

but he may he may have kind of gone about it in a way that wasn't just, you

about it in a way that wasn't just, you know, ABC so forth.

know, ABC so forth. So, do you think that Jack solved it the

So, do you think that Jack solved it the way that Forest had hoped it had it

way that Forest had hoped it had it would be solved?

I don't know. I think so, personally. Um, but you

I think so, personally. Um, but you know, it's just it's just a hunch. But

know, it's just it's just a hunch. But keep in mind that this this whole nine

keep in mind that this this whole nine clues thing isn't setting well with me

clues thing isn't setting well with me because Jack keeps saying that folks are

because Jack keeps saying that folks are Forest might have almost done a

Forest might have almost done a disservice by saying there are these

disservice by saying there are these nine exact clues that need to be solved.

nine exact clues that need to be solved. The trick is to look at this as a whole,

The trick is to look at this as a whole, you know, a big picture item. And Forest

you know, a big picture item. And Forest has said things to that effect over the

has said things to that effect over the years as well. You know, look at the big

years as well. You know, look at the big picture. There's no shortcuts here. What

picture. There's no shortcuts here. What if you just ignore there has to be nine

if you just ignore there has to be nine clues and you just look at this

clues and you just look at this holistically?

holistically? Does that help?

Well, we know from the raw footage video that sometimes Forest would

that sometimes Forest would being silly.

being silly. He wouldn't sell the steak. he would

He wouldn't sell the steak. he would sell the sizzle and he sold the chase,

sell the sizzle and he sold the chase, right? And he gave that director what he

right? And he gave that director what he wanted

wanted and

and we know for sure. Yeah. I was shocked

we know for sure. Yeah. I was shocked in the unedited murder.

in the unedited murder. Yeah. In the unedited outside magazine

Yeah. In the unedited outside magazine video, he said they basically told him,

video, he said they basically told him, "We're looking for something for you to

"We're looking for something for you to say this." And Forest is like, "Okay."

say this." And Forest is like, "Okay." Yeah. He fed him a line and Forest kind

Yeah. He fed him a line and Forest kind of reinterpreted that. Um,

of reinterpreted that. Um, but he was he was he was selling the

but he was he was he was selling the chicks. He was in sales. He knew how to

chicks. He was in sales. He knew how to do that.

do that. He did. My grandpa was like that. I

He did. My grandpa was like that. I remember.

remember. So maybe he found that when he talked

So maybe he found that when he talked about nine clues that people could get

about nine clues that people could get their teeth into that rather than

their teeth into that rather than saying, "Hey, want to read a poem?" I

saying, "Hey, want to read a poem?" I don't know.

don't know. I got this really awesome poem. It's

I got this really awesome poem. It's like so cool and you're gonna love it.

like so cool and you're gonna love it. It's like really cool. I mean I

It's like really cool. I mean I yeah I don't know what to say about that

yeah I don't know what to say about that where he mitigates the significance of

where he mitigates the significance of nine clues and says that it's we need to

nine clues and says that it's we need to think about it more as just a flowing

think about it more as just a flowing narrative or whatever. It's it's

narrative or whatever. It's it's interesting language. I don't know.

interesting language. I don't know. I mean we we know it's a journey that

I mean we we know it's a journey that Forest took. It's sites that he saw

Forest took. It's sites that he saw along the way. It is

along the way. It is he does experience that he had

he does experience that he had and now we combine that with everything

and now we combine that with everything else we know now. We know that it's

else we know now. We know that it's wheelbarrows. We know that it's obvious

wheelbarrows. We know that it's obvious or more obvious than a lot of folks have

or more obvious than a lot of folks have made it. Myself included probably.

made it. Myself included probably. And

And um and we're looking at the big picture

um and we're looking at the big picture here. Look, we all know let's just let's

here. Look, we all know let's just let's just let's just yeah, let's just say

just let's just yeah, let's just say we'll leave the numbers aside and we'll

we'll leave the numbers aside and we'll say

say let's let's state what we think is the

let's let's state what we think is the obvious. Forest wanted to die in

obvious. Forest wanted to die in Yellowstone.

Yellowstone. Okay. Okay. So, you look at this poem,

Okay. Okay. So, you look at this poem, you say, "Well,

you say, "Well, we're we're going where these waters

we're we're going where these waters warm waters are.

warm waters are. We're going down a canyon." Like, well,

We're going down a canyon." Like, well, which canyon? Like, which warm water is?

which canyon? Like, which warm water is? I mean, holistically, if you look at it

I mean, holistically, if you look at it the big picture, well, Yellowstone is

the big picture, well, Yellowstone is where warm waters hold, right? So,

where warm waters hold, right? So, you're in Yellowstone, you're going down

you're in Yellowstone, you're going down into a canyon. Well, what canyon?

into a canyon. Well, what canyon? I mean, you look at the memoir for

I mean, you look at the memoir for clues. What sort of canyons is he

clues. What sort of canyons is he referring to? What sort of places is he

referring to? What sort of places is he talking about? I mean, places like

talking about? I mean, places like Madison Canyon, places like Fire Hole

Madison Canyon, places like Fire Hole Canyon, the you know, those are fairly

Canyon, the you know, those are fairly obvious, I think, in the memoir, you

obvious, I think, in the memoir, you know, and and and

know, and and and as Forest mentioned, like, you know, you

as Forest mentioned, like, you know, you people are getting these first two clues

people are getting these first two clues correct. It's not that hard. Like, more

correct. It's not that hard. Like, more than several people are getting this

than several people are getting this right. It's the obvious. I really think

right. It's the obvious. I really think it is. And

it is. And the obvious obvious, how does it last a

the obvious obvious, how does it last a 100red to a thousand years? if it's

100red to a thousand years? if it's obvious

obvious and and you do the work about somebody

and and you do the work about somebody who did the work.

who did the work. I agree that there there there has to be

I agree that there there there has to be work involved here. And the problem, I

work involved here. And the problem, I think, is going beyond those first two

think, is going beyond those first two clues.

clues. He's gone from the obvious to I think

He's gone from the obvious to I think the exceedingly obscure in a matter of

the exceedingly obscure in a matter of one clue.

one clue.

Not far, but too far to walk put him below Homer Brown. I I wouldn't be

below Homer Brown. I I wouldn't be surprised if that's obscure as hell. And

surprised if that's obscure as hell. And that's that's the mental gap here. And

that's that's the mental gap here. And if you are a if you're hard-headed,

if you are a if you're hard-headed, let's say Jack's a hard-headed guy,

let's say Jack's a hard-headed guy, right? He reads this thing and he's

right? He reads this thing and he's like, "Look, I'm of course in Firehole

like, "Look, I'm of course in Firehole Canyon."

Canyon." Sure.

Sure. That description. Yes. Yes.

That description. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, he he says it's the obvious.

Okay. Well, he he says it's the obvious. It's in Fire Hole Canyon. And he's just

It's in Fire Hole Canyon. And he's just tenacious. He's like, "I'm not going to

tenacious. He's like, "I'm not going to accept anything else because all the

accept anything else because all the clues are pointing here. It's it seems

clues are pointing here. It's it seems as obvious as it can get. So, let's keep

as obvious as it can get. So, let's keep going with it." And perhaps if you dwell

going with it." And perhaps if you dwell on that long enough and you have the

on that long enough and you have the right journalistic capabilities, you can

right journalistic capabilities, you can figure out what that mental gap is and

figure out what that mental gap is and and bridge it. I don't know

and bridge it. I don't know what was So what I guess um sorry that's

what was So what I guess um sorry that's not what I wanted to share.

not what I wanted to share. Oh my gosh. Your browsing history.

Oh my gosh. Your browsing history. Oh. Oh, the porn. Oh no.

Yeah, my browsing history is pretty damn boring. It's like, oh, puzzles and

boring. It's like, oh, puzzles and science. Yay.

science. Yay. Kind of boring. I was looking for

Kind of boring. I was looking for something I could nail you on.

something I could nail you on. I know. I feel bad for people who try

I know. I feel bad for people who try and do that because they they're like,

and do that because they they're like, "Wow, Amy is really into science."

"Wow, Amy is really into science." Like, it's extremely boring. I do want

Like, it's extremely boring. I do want to make sure. Okay, let me scroll real

to make sure. Okay, let me scroll real quick. Um Um There were a couple people

quick. Um Um There were a couple people who said, "Please ask this." Um let's

who said, "Please ask this." Um let's see. Billy Shaw says, "Uh, we'll know

see. Billy Shaw says, "Uh, we'll know because the stick will be there."

because the stick will be there." yeah. I'm a sticker,

yeah. I'm a sticker, not a nooker. Which honestly sounds

not a nooker. Which honestly sounds weird. Um, but I'm a sticker.

weird. Um, but I'm a sticker. Stickers versus the nookers.

Stickers versus the nookers. The Nookers.

The Nookers. Oh, no. I can't scroll up. Oh, shoot.

Oh, no. I can't scroll up. Oh, shoot. I'm so sorry. The chat's Wow, the chat

I'm so sorry. The chat's Wow, the chat is kicking. 160 people watching. Hi,

is kicking. 160 people watching. Hi, everybody. Okay, okay, okay. Um, some

everybody. Okay, okay, okay. Um, some people had asked some questions.

people had asked some questions. Somebody said, "Please ask Justin if

Somebody said, "Please ask Justin if he's watched my videos."

he's watched my videos." Very important was the name of the

Very important was the name of the person. So, I don't know if you've

person. So, I don't know if you've watched his videos or not. And I'm sorry

watched his videos or not. And I'm sorry if you could re ask those questions. My

if you could re ask those questions. My chat, the way it works is you scroll

chat, the way it works is you scroll through chat and it stops at some point

through chat and it stops at some point and and you know, it it no longer

and and you know, it it no longer scrolls. So, apparently it's a a a

scrolls. So, apparently it's a a a popular hangout for Sunday night. Um, so

popular hangout for Sunday night. Um, so really

really I don't think I've seen the videos by

I don't think I've seen the videos by the way. So, you know, feel free to

the way. So, you know, feel free to email me the link. I'm I'm not clear on

email me the link. I'm I'm not clear on where to find them off hand. So,

where to find them off hand. So, okay. Very important. Go ahead and uh um

okay. Very important. Go ahead and uh um wait, how do I I know you I know you

wait, how do I I know you I know you have very mistakenly given your email

have very mistakenly given your email out on other shows.

out on other shows. Oh, it's fine. Um so, two things. One is

Oh, it's fine. Um so, two things. One is that I have a huge backlog of emails, so

that I have a huge backlog of emails, so I apologize in advance. You know, if

I apologize in advance. You know, if it's

it's I know it's hard to keep up. I feel so

I know it's hard to keep up. I feel so bad.

bad. Um but yeah, so the email No, it's fine.

Um but yeah, so the email No, it's fine. I don't I don't mind. Uh, so the email

I don't I don't mind. Uh, so the email address is email chaosgmail.com.

address is email chaosgmail.com. That's ch haos. Feel free to

That's ch haos. Feel free to email me the video links.

email me the video links. Feel free to harass him at will. Yeah,

I don't I I'm I'm thinking about this thing you said, Justin, or you kind of

thing you said, Justin, or you kind of suggested this idea that we can look at

suggested this idea that we can look at this that, you know, Jack was um just

this that, you know, Jack was um just like every other searcher.

like every other searcher. They're all very confident. Oh, I've got

They're all very confident. Oh, I've got this thing figured out.

this thing figured out. Yes.

Yes. But but Jack just got lucky,

But but Jack just got lucky, right?

right? He's got a trump card. He's got he's got

He's got a trump card. He's got he's got that chest and

that chest and the ultimate trump card.

the ultimate trump card. And you know that going back to the

And you know that going back to the cognitive bias video in that section on

cognitive bias video in that section on Darwin, he talks about he he talks about

Darwin, he talks about he he talks about compat combating each one. What can you

compat combating each one. What can you do about these biases

do about these biases that hamper us? and he talks about, you

that hamper us? and he talks about, you know, being critical, taking criticism,

know, being critical, taking criticism, evaluating,

evaluating, being willing to change your mind.

being willing to change your mind. Um, one of the most interesting things

Um, one of the most interesting things he says is that, um, and this goes back

he says is that, um, and this goes back to that TED video, uh, TED talk video

to that TED video, uh, TED talk video with wheelbarls.

with wheelbarls. Uh, no, not

Uh, no, not no, that's a different one, right?

no, that's a different one, right? Sorry.

Sorry. That we are, human beings are um pattern

That we are, human beings are um pattern detecting creatures. Our brains are um

detecting creatures. Our brains are um by function,

by function, right? Just you don't have to uh say,

right? Just you don't have to uh say, "Hey, I'm going to go open this memoir

"Hey, I'm going to go open this memoir and look for connections and patterns."

and look for connections and patterns." Correct?

Correct? We already do that. In fact, uh we see

We already do that. In fact, uh we see them. We we do it so well. We do it and

them. We we do it so well. We do it and we see connections where there aren't

we see connections where there aren't connections.

connections. So, we have to ride the brakes on this.

So, we have to ride the brakes on this. What's the term of that again? Um

What's the term of that again? Um epophenia.

epophenia. Thank you. There's a scientific term

Thank you. There's a scientific term cloud

cloud and say, "Hey, you know, tonight I'm

and say, "Hey, you know, tonight I'm going to work on this. I've got two

going to work on this. I've got two hours. I'm going to look for

hours. I'm going to look for connections." No, no, no, no, no. Just

connections." No, no, no, no, no. Just the opposite. You should never do that.

the opposite. You should never do that. You You should And this is the thing he

You You should And this is the thing he said. He said, "I always considered it a

said. He said, "I always considered it a coincidence

coincidence unless

unless evidence came along and confirmed it."

evidence came along and confirmed it." And the big thing for him was intent. if

And the big thing for him was intent. if he was able to find forests intent in

he was able to find forests intent in creating this. Otherwise, it was always

creating this. Otherwise, it was always ruled a coincidence.

ruled a coincidence. The data

The data reading the memoir and just ruling all

reading the memoir and just ruling all patterns and connections out unless you

patterns and connections out unless you could say, "No, I'm finding

could say, "No, I'm finding authoral I'm finding an intent from the

authoral I'm finding an intent from the author. This this is this is a good

author. This this is this is a good one."

one." Yeah.

Yeah. Right. That's huge about his

Right. That's huge about his methodology. That's huge.

methodology. That's huge. That's the scientific method. The data

That's the scientific method. The data has to drive the theory, not the theory

has to drive the theory, not the theory driving the data.

driving the data. Yeah. I mean, don't read the book

Yeah. I mean, don't read the book looking for clues.

looking for clues. Read the book as a book, just like

Read the book as a book, just like Matt's saying, as a memoir and as Jack's

Matt's saying, as a memoir and as Jack's saying. And

saying. And and

and you know, when think about it in terms

you know, when think about it in terms of what his special place is like that,

of what his special place is like that, is it really that straightforward?

is it really that straightforward? Maybe.

Maybe. Okay, a really quick question from the

Okay, a really quick question from the chat. How many of you think that he

chat. How many of you think that he solved it the way Forest wanted it to be

solved it the way Forest wanted it to be solved as far as knowing Forest? Right.

solved as far as knowing Forest? Right. So, we we're getting this Oh, shut up,

So, we we're getting this Oh, shut up, Justin. Justin, shut up. I'm muting

Justin. Justin, shut up. I'm muting Justin from now on.

Justin from now on. Sorry.

Sorry. [Laughter]

[Laughter] Let us know like you know. So, um,

Let us know like you know. So, um, okay. No, stop. I'm sorry. I can't,

okay. No, stop. I'm sorry. I can't, Justin.

Justin. I got to get a refill. I'll be right

I got to get a refill. I'll be right back.

Okay, Cynthia, go. So, you know, I don't think Forest had

So, you know, I don't think Forest had an issue with however Jack solved it in

an issue with however Jack solved it in the original art. article written by the

the original art. article written by the finder, he said Forest called him a

finder, he said Forest called him a genius. So whether or not did Forest

genius. So whether or not did Forest care, he didn't I don't think he hid the

care, he didn't I don't think he hid the treasure chest because he wanted us to

treasure chest because he wanted us to crack his poem. That was just a vehicle

crack his poem. That was just a vehicle for him to deliver information so that

for him to deliver information so that we could find the treasure chest.

we could find the treasure chest. whether or not Jack found it because he

whether or not Jack found it because he got all nine clues in order where he

got all nine clues in order where he figured out where he wanted to die and

figured out where he wanted to die and then as Jack is walking from WW down the

then as Jack is walking from WW down the canyon or driving or whatever he did,

canyon or driving or whatever he did, right?

right? And then it's like he maybe almost

And then it's like he maybe almost reverse engineered it or or just got the

reverse engineered it or or just got the confirmation of the thoughts he had in

confirmation of the thoughts he had in his head.

his head. I just don't see Forest caring one way

I just don't see Forest caring one way or the other. The whole thing Forest did

or the other. The whole thing Forest did was hide the treasure chest so it could

was hide the treasure chest so it could be found. whether or not we interpreted

be found. whether or not we interpreted the clues right I I don't think he

the clues right I I don't think he what about spending so this is I guess

what about spending so this is I guess one thing that bugs me a lot is that one

one thing that bugs me a lot is that one thing I've learned from knowing forest

thing I've learned from knowing forest is that he had an ego right he had an

is that he had an ego right he had an ego he spent 15 years crafting something

ego he spent 15 years crafting something that he was somewhat confident was going

that he was somewhat confident was going to take a very very very long time to

to take a very very very long time to solve now obviously that depended on how

solve now obviously that depended on how many people were going to be working on

many people were going to be working on it. But if you have the ego, if you

it. But if you have the ego, if you spent 15 years crafting something,

spent 15 years crafting something, how is it possible that you're okay with

how is it possible that you're okay with that cleverness to never be known?

Yeah, you you would think that Forest would have encouraged

would have encouraged Jack to reveal the solution to show how

Jack to reveal the solution to show how clever Forest was. Is that what you're

clever Forest was. Is that what you're getting at?

getting at? Sort of. Yes. Yeah. Because I mean the

Sort of. Yes. Yeah. Because I mean the number of times I would ask Forest,

number of times I would ask Forest, how can you handle all this attention?

how can you handle all this attention? Right? Like how can you handle all of

Right? Like how can you handle all of this stuff happening? And um and I told

this stuff happening? And um and I told Jack this because I was like, you know,

Jack this because I was like, you know, obviously Jack has the right to know

obviously Jack has the right to know this kind of stuff. But you know, he

this kind of stuff. But you know, he would respond, I like people, and then

would respond, I like people, and then he would lean in and wink and say, "And

he would lean in and wink and say, "And maybe I'd like the attention a little

maybe I'd like the attention a little bit too,

bit too, right?" So I mean, and and then he had

right?" So I mean, and and then he had this ins insecurity complex with his

this ins insecurity complex with his father being this intelligent math

father being this intelligent math teacher, principal person.

teacher, principal person. And I just psychologically speaking,

And I just psychologically speaking, I find it hard to believe that Forest is

I find it hard to believe that Forest is okay

okay with um with nobody knowing this 15-year

with um with nobody knowing this 15-year solution being so clever, but The Finder

solution being so clever, but The Finder says not clever, not puzzly. And I just

says not clever, not puzzly. And I just I have a really hard time with that. I

I have a really hard time with that. I guess

guess I always thought he would want to talk

I always thought he would want to talk about it just because

about it just because Forest was a talker. He liked stories

Forest was a talker. He liked stories and now he's got a good one,

and now he's got a good one, you know.

you know. Yeah. Um, but you're right, Jack didn't

Yeah. Um, but you're right, Jack didn't think that Forest

think that Forest created this thing to kind of um,

created this thing to kind of um, you know, with with a flourish to show

you know, with with a flourish to show his brilliance like

his brilliance like a little bit of the ego of like my dad

a little bit of the ego of like my dad would be proud of me for producing this

would be proud of me for producing this thing.

thing. Yeah. He he he didn't think that that

Yeah. He he he didn't think that that was part of it though,

was part of it though, right? Yeah. I have a hard time with

right? Yeah. I have a hard time with that. Psychologically speaking, it just

that. Psychologically speaking, it just with the time I've spent with Forest, it

with the time I've spent with Forest, it just seems so more probable that Forest

just seems so more probable that Forest came up with something that his dad

came up with something that his dad would have been proud of clever-wise

would have been proud of clever-wise and and that's the opposite of what

and and that's the opposite of what we're getting from The Finder. He's

we're getting from The Finder. He's like, "That wasn't it." You know, it's

like, "That wasn't it." You know, it's not puzzly. I just that's the part that

not puzzly. I just that's the part that I have the hardest time with. Um and

I have the hardest time with. Um and Horus kept telling us to simplify. It

Horus kept telling us to simplify. It was straightforward. There was no

was straightforward. There was no subuge. I don't think

subuge. I don't think it it was

it it was I think he I I guess he imagined it

I think he I I guess he imagined it would not be found in his lifetime,

but he was so confident in that until 2018.

he was so confident in that until 2018. Yeah.

What produces that kind of confidence? you know, he says, uh, someone who's

you know, he says, uh, someone who's going to do the work, that kind of

going to do the work, that kind of stuff. And real quick, I know I'm sorry

stuff. And real quick, I know I'm sorry for chat, so I will answer a few. So DD

for chat, so I will answer a few. So DD says, Amy seeks, why is Jack's only pick

says, Amy seeks, why is Jack's only pick of the chess such an unflattering and

of the chess such an unflattering and jumbled display totally at odds with

jumbled display totally at odds with what Forest promised to bedazzle the

what Forest promised to bedazzle the finder? I'm guessing you're speaking to

finder? I'm guessing you're speaking to like the original post of what the chest

like the original post of what the chest looked like.

looked like. Here's a quick survey. How many of you

Here's a quick survey. How many of you in the chat? 118 of you. Hi everybody.

in the chat? 118 of you. Hi everybody. What's up? Happy Sunday. Um, how many of

What's up? Happy Sunday. Um, how many of you saw the picture of the chest, the

you saw the picture of the chest, the open chest, and was like, "Wait, where's

open chest, and was like, "Wait, where's the other stuff or were you like were

the other stuff or were you like were you were you satisfied with what you saw

you were you satisfied with what you saw or were you expecting more?" Um, Billy

or were you expecting more?" Um, Billy Shaw Jr. I saw that Willilitude made a

Shaw Jr. I saw that Willilitude made a great point that perhaps the spot has

great point that perhaps the spot has some tragedy associated with it and

some tragedy associated with it and that's why we why he didn't want it to

that's why we why he didn't want it to be there. Um,

be there. Um, that's interesting. Do you think it's a

that's interesting. Do you think it's a tragic spot or do you think it's a

tragic spot or do you think it's a emotionally important positive spot?

emotionally important positive spot? So, we know the spot is we I mean it's

So, we know the spot is we I mean it's clear the spot was extremely

clear the spot was extremely right deeply ingrained in Forest's

right deeply ingrained in Forest's psyche.

psyche. Was it fishing? Was it I know. Okay, I'm

Was it fishing? Was it I know. Okay, I'm gonna say it. Prepare yourselves. I've

gonna say it. Prepare yourselves. I've had enough to drink. Was it

had enough to drink. Was it an emotional moment with someone? Okay,

an emotional moment with someone? Okay, that's as far as

that's as far as elegant way of putting it.

elegant way of putting it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, we

Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, we know that this spot was extremely

know that this spot was extremely important to Forest in some way. Was it

important to Forest in some way. Was it emotional? Was it psychological? What,

emotional? Was it psychological? What, you know, what was it that

you know, what was it that made this spot so incredibly important?

made this spot so incredibly important? And what was it that that Jack thinks

And what was it that that Jack thinks that we're going to go there and say,

that we're going to go there and say, "This is so Forest." Because like we

"This is so Forest." Because like we talked about before, we're like, "How do

talked about before, we're like, "How do we know 100%." cuz I would love like we

we know 100%." cuz I would love like we talked about before on a Zoom, right?

talked about before on a Zoom, right? Looking for the stick, looking bending

Looking for the stick, looking bending bending over,

bending over, you know, just looking for that stick

you know, just looking for that stick because at this point it is the only

because at this point it is the only thing that we have

thing that we have that we have a picture of that we can

that we have a picture of that we can verify,

verify, right? We have nothing else at the spot

right? We have nothing else at the spot that tells us for sure you have the

that tells us for sure you have the right spot. And if we continue to search

right spot. And if we continue to search for it,

for it, what do we have that says yes, you got

what do we have that says yes, you got it right?

it right? That's where I'm torn. I I really want

That's where I'm torn. I I really want to keep working on it. But if I don't

to keep working on it. But if I don't have 98%

have 98% sure, right, that this is the spot, how

sure, right, that this is the spot, how do I justify the time I'm looking for

do I justify the time I'm looking for it?

it? And that's that's the balance to be

And that's that's the balance to be struck. you know, it's clear that he

struck. you know, it's clear that he doesn't want to divulge the location,

doesn't want to divulge the location, but for those that want to keep

but for those that want to keep searching and and potentially find it,

searching and and potentially find it, I I mean, maybe maybe it's unreasonable

I I mean, maybe maybe it's unreasonable for me to say this, but I think I think

for me to say this, but I think I think that's only fair. Um,

that's only fair. Um, you know, it's there are folks out there

you know, it's there are folks out there who don't have the same closure that he

who don't have the same closure that he has, and I'm hoping I'm hoping there's

has, and I'm hoping I'm hoping there's enough empathy involved where he can

enough empathy involved where he can extend that. Um, but also not release

extend that. Um, but also not release the location, you know? I mean, I think

the location, you know? I mean, I think he can do both.

he can do both. How do you How do you think that's Oh,

How do you How do you think that's Oh, go ahead, Matt. Sorry.

go ahead, Matt. Sorry. Oh, by by leaving something there

Oh, by by leaving something there or

or by allowing us to email him and say,

by allowing us to email him and say, "Hey, here's where I was at. Is that

"Hey, here's where I was at. Is that right?" You could say yes or no. I mean,

right?" You could say yes or no. I mean, I don't think he'd want to field all

I don't think he'd want to field all those emails over the years. would seem

those emails over the years. would seem more pregnant.

more pregnant. If you confirm it for one, you've

If you confirm it for one, you've confirmed it for all of his or her

confirmed it for all of his or her Facebook friends and all of their family

Facebook friends and all of their family and then it spreads from there and then

and then it spreads from there and then everybody knows in about 72 hours

everybody knows in about 72 hours everybody knows.

everybody knows. And that's that's the trick. So,

And that's that's the trick. So, it's up to each person that finds a spot

it's up to each person that finds a spot how they want to handle that, right? I

how they want to handle that, right? I mean, they could choose to release it to

mean, they could choose to release it to the world in no time flat, or they could

the world in no time flat, or they could very quietly say, "Okay, I'm I have my

very quietly say, "Okay, I'm I have my closure." And move on. And

closure." And move on. And I don't

I don't That's like the ultimate, isn't it?

That's like the ultimate, isn't it? It is, but people get closure in

It is, but people get closure in different ways. You know, and and Matt,

different ways. You know, and and Matt, you have an excellent point that all it

you have an excellent point that all it takes is one person to find it who feels

takes is one person to find it who feels compelled to me mention it to others and

compelled to me mention it to others and very quickly it's common knowledge. So

very quickly it's common knowledge. So that that's totally valid. I get it.

that that's totally valid. I get it. So what if Jack releases

So what if Jack releases the word that is key? Do you guys then

the word that is key? Do you guys then believe that I just got permission I can

believe that I just got permission I can say this. Um does that mean then that

say this. Um does that mean then that Sorry, I have to go pass out. I'll be

Sorry, I have to go pass out. I'll be right back.

right back. No, I just asked and she said no. So um

No, I just asked and she said no. So um thank you. That was very sweet by the

thank you. That was very sweet by the way for that person. Oops, I just lost

way for that person. Oops, I just lost my iPad.

my iPad. So when when Jack comes out when Jack

So when when Jack comes out when Jack comes forward and tells us what the word

comes forward and tells us what the word that is key is,

that is key is, maybe that will help answer some of the

maybe that will help answer some of the discussion that we're having tonight. Or

discussion that we're having tonight. Or maybe it's going to be so vague we're

maybe it's going to be so vague we're all going to say WPF. You know, now we

all going to say WPF. You know, now we know it, but so what? What where does

know it, but so what? What where does that get us? But at least we know pro

that get us? But at least we know pro I'm pretty sure that um this is

I'm pretty sure that um this is something that Jack's gonna tell us. So

something that Jack's gonna tell us. So I think that'll be helpful.

I think that'll be helpful. I think you were on the right track. My

I think you were on the right track. My money is on the word comes out and we

money is on the word comes out and we all go what?

all go what? Except

Except except for the few people who think they

except for the few people who think they already know what it means.

already know what it means. You know, even though they might have

You know, even though they might have their own personal interpretations or,

their own personal interpretations or, you know, takes on it. But I think a lot

you know, takes on it. But I think a lot of us will be like, "What?"

of us will be like, "What?" Okay.

Okay. Well, you you you could very well be

Well, you you you could very well be right. I mean, if it's not my word that

right. I mean, if it's not my word that is key, it's probably a good thing

is key, it's probably a good thing because my word that is key obviously

because my word that is key obviously didn't work for me.

didn't work for me. Say that the key word is is to

Say that the key word is is to o everyone give their keyword

o everyone give their keyword and wo

and wo All right, Cynthia. Cynthia, what's your

All right, Cynthia. Cynthia, what's your key word?

key word? I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. Go. Mine was go.

Go. Mine was go. Go. All right, Justin, what's your

Go. All right, Justin, what's your keyword?

keyword? Well, you know, there's a lot of

Well, you know, there's a lot of candidates. Give me a minute to think

candidates. Give me a minute to think what you guys You guys go ahead.

what you guys You guys go ahead. Okay. All right, Matt, you're next.

Okay. All right, Matt, you're next. What's your keyword?

What's your keyword? Wheelbarrel.

Wheelbarrel. [Laughter]

I got I got that hidden stanza in the poem. I asked Jack to send that to me.

poem. I asked Jack to send that to me. There you go.

There you go. And I got I have four extra lines. So,

And I got I have four extra lines. So, that's something that's going to be on

that's something that's going to be on your video, right?

your video, right? Right. And it's hard to rhyme with fire

Right. And it's hard to rhyme with fire hole, but Forest did it. Okay. Oh, yeah.

hole, but Forest did it. Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, if if you address this in the video,

Oh, if if you address this in the video, Matt, then let's just wait and see the

Matt, then let's just wait and see the video and not

video and not I'm I'm kidding. No, I don't I don't

I'm I'm kidding. No, I don't I don't know. I'll add a keyword, but it was for

know. I'll add a keyword, but it was for a bad solve, so I give up my keyword.

a bad solve, so I give up my keyword. And I you know, maybe it is wheelbarrow.

And I you know, maybe it is wheelbarrow. Maybe it's blaze. Maybe that's the

Maybe it's blaze. Maybe that's the keyword. Maybe it's not Maybe it's not a

keyword. Maybe it's not Maybe it's not a key like we think that just unlocks

key like we think that just unlocks everything. Maybe it's

everything. Maybe it's that you get the blaze first. I don't

that you get the blaze first. I don't know. Who knows? He says every almost

know. Who knows? He says every almost every line has a word that's keyed. So,

every line has a word that's keyed. So, well, because you need more one starts

well, because you need more one starts the catalyst. That's the word cold, just

the catalyst. That's the word cold, just so you know. And then every other

so you know. And then every other keyword uh basically starts that same

keyword uh basically starts that same catalyst in using the poem with the book

catalyst in using the poem with the book to mine certain words to lead you to the

to mine certain words to lead you to the exact spot, creating an X on a map,

exact spot, creating an X on a map, which is the blaze.

which is the blaze. What am I hearing? Again,

What am I hearing? Again, all you need to do is watch my 18-hour

all you need to do is watch my 18-hour video that's firstly produced on my on

video that's firstly produced on my on what I thought might be the correct uh

what I thought might be the correct uh direction going.

direction going. It's coming out soon on a set of DVDs.

It's coming out soon on a set of DVDs. Uh Blu-ray if you prefer of Amy Seeks

Uh Blu-ray if you prefer of Amy Seeks The Solution exclamation mark

The Solution exclamation mark exclamation mark. That's a shout out to

exclamation mark. That's a shout out to Croc Cow

Croc Cow verified.

verified. So anyway, um I just want everybody to

So anyway, um I just want everybody to know so they don't think so the

know so they don't think so the conspiracy theories don't start. It was

conspiracy theories don't start. It was Jack told Mike Cow lasers that he will

Jack told Mike Cow lasers that he will release the word that is key. So

release the word that is key. So Oh, that's wonderful. So tune in to KPro

Oh, that's wonderful. So tune in to KPro and Cow,

and Cow, right?

right? So turn in tune in to KPro Cow, get them

So turn in tune in to KPro Cow, get them to 4,000 subscribers.

to 4,000 subscribers. I said I don't know. Yeah, Jack reached

I said I don't know. Yeah, Jack reached out to them that he's going to do it. I

out to them that he's going to do it. I don't know in what manner Jack is doing

don't know in what manner Jack is doing it, just that he is to release it, but

it, just that he is to release it, but and he told Mike, so Mike's the one that

and he told Mike, so Mike's the one that had the info.

had the info. Mike's busy solving the great US

Mike's busy solving the great US treasure hunt, but hopefully if he's

treasure hunt, but hopefully if he's listening, he can mention it in chat

listening, he can mention it in chat whether or not to watch on Monday. There

whether or not to watch on Monday. There you go.

you go. But yeah, I've heard rumors he's already

But yeah, I've heard rumors he's already solved it. So, you know,

solved it. So, you know, you have to know the beats per minute

you have to know the beats per minute for each song. Never mind. I don't want

for each song. Never mind. I don't want to Oh. Oh, we are. And that's the other

to Oh. Oh, we are. And that's the other thing for anyone who is tuning in who is

thing for anyone who is tuning in who is unfamiliar with the Greatest Treasure

unfamiliar with the Greatest Treasure Hunt. They released their first clue and

Hunt. They released their first clue and we all hate it. No one.

we all hate it. No one. We all have to go watch Elf.

It has been delightful and perplexing us. Um, I haven't had much chance to

us. Um, I haven't had much chance to work on it. I I really am planning on

work on it. I I really am planning on going over chapter 4. The hint is for

going over chapter 4. The hint is for chapter 4 in the great US treasure hunt.

chapter 4 in the great US treasure hunt. And um what does it say exactly?

And um what does it say exactly? You have a partner, Amy?

You have a partner, Amy? I do not have an official partner.

I do not have an official partner. What's great is that right now I'm

What's great is that right now I'm looking at Justin and Cynthia and they

looking at Justin and Cynthia and they can't be working on it. But my partner,

can't be working on it. But my partner, she's working really hard on it right

she's working really hard on it right now while I do this.

now while I do this. Is this the partner we saw yesterday,

Is this the partner we saw yesterday, Carrie? Yeah,

Carrie? Yeah, she's kicking booty.

she's kicking booty. She's probably got it solved.

She's probably got it solved. Way to multitask. So

Way to multitask. So yeah,

yeah, we're all But you guys can't be working

we're all But you guys can't be working on it.

on it. I'm totally working on it. Are you

I'm totally working on it. Are you kidding me? I've got like Wait, wait,

kidding me? I've got like Wait, wait, wait. Boom. Right there. There it is.

wait. Boom. Right there. There it is. Oh, do you see it? Do you see it?

Oh, do you see it? Do you see it? I've got two monitors here.

I've got two monitors here. I'm not paying attention to you guys at

I'm not paying attention to you guys at all. I'm just

all. I'm just You printed that out on your own, didn't

You printed that out on your own, didn't you?

you? I did, unfortunately. Um, this is one

I did, unfortunately. Um, this is one where I just took a bunch of screenshots

where I just took a bunch of screenshots and printed it out. Oh, look at that.

and printed it out. Oh, look at that. It's trying to get me to do other stuff.

It's trying to get me to do other stuff. Um, all right. So, going back to the

Um, all right. So, going back to the chat, um, Oki Tarman, year 3009, 10,00

chat, um, Oki Tarman, year 3009, 10,00 years, 3551, 37.02

years, 3551, 37.02 north. I have no idea what that means,

north. I have no idea what that means, Okaran. But that's really cool. Um,

Okaran. But that's really cool. Um, Billy Shaw Jr. Blaze was my keyword. My

Billy Shaw Jr. Blaze was my keyword. My keyword, by the way, is cold. And

keyword, by the way, is cold. And obviously, it's right.

obviously, it's right. Watch my first video. Okay. Okay. Um,

Watch my first video. Okay. Okay. Um, my my keyword, I'm going to throw it out

my my keyword, I'm going to throw it out there for for this. I

there for for this. I I mean, I've had a lot of keywords over

I mean, I've had a lot of keywords over the years, but I'll throw one out. I'll

the years, but I'll throw one out. I'll say it's end.

say it's end. End.

End. End.

End. Okay.

Okay. Ent.

Ent. Nailed it.

Nailed it. Okay. All right. All right. Truck and

Okay. All right. All right. Truck and treasure. Amy seeks. How many of us want

treasure. Amy seeks. How many of us want just the solve and don't care where it

just the solve and don't care where it was?

was? That mean

That mean I think they kind of go together, right?

I think they kind of go together, right? Yeah, those are kind of

Yeah, those are kind of Okay. Billy Billy Shaw Jr. who on the

Okay. Billy Billy Shaw Jr. who on the panel would publicly reveal the spot if

panel would publicly reveal the spot if they had figured it out. I mean, we know

they had figured it out. I mean, we know Justin and Cynthia

Justin and Cynthia if I find it and it's I'm Yes. Hell, I

if I find it and it's I'm Yes. Hell, I already did one that was wrong. What's

already did one that was wrong. What's wrong with the second one that's wrong

wrong with the second one that's wrong or right?

or right? I would not I would not reveal it. Um

I would not I would not reveal it. Um Wait, what? But you revealed the GPS

Wait, what? But you revealed the GPS one.

one. I I I mean I was a guest on on you know

I I I mean I was a guest on on you know that expedition that Okay. That was

that expedition that Okay. That was Got it. Got it.

Got it. Got it. You know that wasn't my decision to

You know that wasn't my decision to make. Um

make. Um but right,

but right, you know, if it was just me. No, I don't

you know, if it was just me. No, I don't I don't think I would.

I don't think I would. Sorry.

Sorry. By the way, Justin's email is

By the way, Justin's email is Oh, okay. Let let me let me go back to

Oh, okay. Let let me let me go back to my general statement. I guess it would

my general statement. I guess it would depend on on on where it was. So So

depend on on on where it was. So So Operation Nook, that was just the place

Operation Nook, that was just the place in any forest.

in any forest. You know, a hundred thousand people can

You know, a hundred thousand people can walk through there and put beads or

walk through there and put beads or whatever. It's not going to ruin it.

whatever. It's not going to ruin it. There's really nothing there to ruin. If

There's really nothing there to ruin. If it's at some really um

it's at some really um That's true. It

That's true. It really like if it would be in a really

really like if it would be in a really delicate area around a hot spring or a

delicate area around a hot spring or a petetroglyph and and the boots on the

petetroglyph and and the boots on the ground are going to ruin it. Yeah. Then

ground are going to ruin it. Yeah. Then I agree. you you don't give it away. It

I agree. you you don't give it away. It I guess I shouldn't so quickly

I guess I shouldn't so quickly it would depend.

it would depend. That's fair.

That's fair. I totally understand that. It would

I totally understand that. It would if it's

if it's How about you guys, Matt,

How about you guys, Matt, Amy?

I I think I would want to tell the story. I think it's a good story. I

story. I think it's a good story. I think I'd want to write a book.

think I'd want to write a book. But could I be persuaded?

But could I be persuaded? You know, if Forest tried to persuade

You know, if Forest tried to persuade me, I think I could be persuaded to keep

me, I think I could be persuaded to keep quiet. Did that happen here? I don't

quiet. Did that happen here? I don't know.

know. So, if it was Forest decision to say,

So, if it was Forest decision to say, "Hey, please don't reveal the area."

"Hey, please don't reveal the area." You would say, you know, obviously it's

You would say, you know, obviously it's like you'd say, "I have to respect

like you'd say, "I have to respect that."

Do you think so? For me, a big thing is 10 years, 15 years, right? Like I'm

10 years, 15 years, right? Like I'm going to give it this much time

going to give it this much time and then I'm going to let you guys know

and then I'm going to let you guys know this information. Like for me, that

this information. Like for me, that seems like uh something that is very

seems like uh something that is very doable.

What do you guys think? Like is like like could the finder say could Jack say

like could the finder say could Jack say and hi Jack by the way. I know he's not

and hi Jack by the way. I know he's not watching because I didn't send him a

watching because I didn't send him a link or anything, but who knows when he

link or anything, but who knows when he might watch this

might watch this to say, "Hey, in in 1015 years, I'll go

to say, "Hey, in in 1015 years, I'll go ahead and reveal the spot." Right? At

ahead and reveal the spot." Right? At that point, only the hardcore people are

that point, only the hardcore people are going to be still listening, right?

going to be still listening, right? We'll be like six or seven years, right?

We'll be like six or seven years, right? Pretty much after the tax audit period

Pretty much after the tax audit period passes. Is that

passes. Is that Well, see, I am so unfamiliar with the

Well, see, I am so unfamiliar with the like the legalities of this. If it was

like the legalities of this. If it was in Yellowstone, how long would he have

in Yellowstone, how long would he have to wait to not risk penalties

to wait to not risk penalties financially?

Yeah, it's a tax audit period. I don't know what that would be is my guess. I I

know what that would be is my guess. I I mean, I don't know.

mean, I don't know. And Willitude says, "Do we think the

And Willitude says, "Do we think the chest was found Friday or Saturday?

chest was found Friday or Saturday? Wasn't Yellowstone closed on Friday?"

I don't remember. Friday. No. Uh, it was definitely he I mean

No. Uh, it was definitely he I mean Jack's already said he found it on

Jack's already said he found it on Friday. That's not I mean that's out

Friday. That's not I mean that's out there. And I was inside Yellowstone

there. And I was inside Yellowstone searching. I was actually in the

searching. I was actually in the Firehole Canyon area um the day after

Firehole Canyon area um the day after you could get in from Cody. I actually

you could get in from Cody. I actually stayed towards the end of May. It was

stayed towards the end of May. It was before Memorial Day, I believe, or or

before Memorial Day, I believe, or or right around that weekend. I know it was

right around that weekend. I know it was in May that I was actually inside the

in May that I was actually inside the park.

park. But but then the the north entrance and

But but then the the north entrance and west Yellowstone entrances were closed

west Yellowstone entrances were closed until what the

until what the till July,

till July, which is I don't know if that's a good

which is I don't know if that's a good uh does that help figure out the time

uh does that help figure out the time that it took Jack to drive that treasure

that it took Jack to drive that treasure chest to fence house? I don't know. But

chest to fence house? I don't know. But yeah, he he would have had to use the

yeah, he he would have had to use the Cody entrance or the Jackson entrance

Cody entrance or the Jackson entrance because the other three were closed

because the other three were closed until the 4th of July.

Okay. It's funny the parallels with AGK and and the hurricane closing down their

and and the hurricane closing down their trail. Justin's like,

if anyone is unfamiliar, A Gypsy's Kiss did a treasure hunt just recently that

did a treasure hunt just recently that was solved and many people had the

was solved and many people had the correct area and were waiting to go

correct area and were waiting to go there. and Justin and Cynthia, they were

there. and Justin and Cynthia, they were they were this close to leaving

they were this close to leaving to go find that one when it was found

to go find that one when it was found when it was found uh by the finder. And

when it was found uh by the finder. And by the way, the finder still has the

by the way, the finder still has the forest fen letter and they haven't

forest fen letter and they haven't opened it yet. Uh but they have said

opened it yet. Uh but they have said that when they do eventually open the

that when they do eventually open the forest fen letter that they will let me

forest fen letter that they will let me know um what it has in it. So uh so say

know um what it has in it. So uh so say stay tuned for that. Um let's see. DD

stay tuned for that. Um let's see. DD says for a fact contents of the chest

says for a fact contents of the chest were removed and replaced haphazardly

were removed and replaced haphazardly before that pick of the finders. Look

before that pick of the finders. Look look at and ask yourself if that is the

look at and ask yourself if that is the opulent display intended by forest. So

opulent display intended by forest. So you know like obviously I feel so bad.

you know like obviously I feel so bad. Oh there's a lot of Amy sakes. Sorry I'm

Oh there's a lot of Amy sakes. Sorry I'm trying to keep up. I feel really bad

trying to keep up. I feel really bad because my first reaction

because my first reaction to the image of the opened chest was

to the image of the opened chest was really

really and I'm like I'm like that is a terrible

and I'm like I'm like that is a terrible reaction because it's full of gold and

reaction because it's full of gold and all these wonderful things and here I am

all these wonderful things and here I am asking myself where's the gems? Where's

asking myself where's the gems? Where's the sparkle? Where's the boom? Right?

the sparkle? Where's the boom? Right? And I'm just like that is such a wrong

And I'm just like that is such a wrong reaction that I'm having. I felt bad

reaction that I'm having. I felt bad about it. Um, but I found out that so

about it. Um, but I found out that so many other people felt the same way just

many other people felt the same way just because, you know, the the Goonies

because, you know, the the Goonies feeling, that Goonies feeling of a chest

feeling, that Goonies feeling of a chest that you open up and there's gems and

that you open up and there's gems and everything sparkling and all that kind

everything sparkling and all that kind of stuff. And we had gold, which if

of stuff. And we had gold, which if anyone is familiar with dealing with

anyone is familiar with dealing with gold, gold is actually pretty dull. 100%

gold, gold is actually pretty dull. 100% like like 99 whatever% gold is actually

like like 99 whatever% gold is actually a very dull product, right? It sparkles

a very dull product, right? It sparkles and all that kind of stuff, but it's not

and all that kind of stuff, but it's not like a jam. It's gone. I mean, what what

like a jam. It's gone. I mean, what what were you guys' reaction when you saw the

were you guys' reaction when you saw the first picture of the open chest shortly

first picture of the open chest shortly after it it had been revealed, right? He

after it it had been revealed, right? He He's like, "This is just after I moved

He's like, "This is just after I moved it from its nook." Because we're I'm a

it from its nook." Because we're I'm a sticker. Those are nookers.

sticker. Those are nookers. What were you like? Were you guys super

What were you like? Were you guys super excited? What was your reaction?

excited? What was your reaction? No, I thought it was disappointing. I

No, I thought it was disappointing. I guess because it was dirty.

guess because it was dirty. It was dirty and there were baggies and

It was dirty and there were baggies and it wasn't all nice and shiny anymore,

it wasn't all nice and shiny anymore, you know, but um

you know, but um yeah, I mean, I wasn't so disappointed

yeah, I mean, I wasn't so disappointed that I thought, "Boy, I'm glad I didn't

that I thought, "Boy, I'm glad I didn't find it after all." I mean, it wasn't

find it after all." I mean, it wasn't like that extreme, but it was Yeah, I I

like that extreme, but it was Yeah, I I was surprised because it wasn't all new

was surprised because it wasn't all new and clean and shiny anymore.

and clean and shiny anymore. The um the thing about baggies

The um the thing about baggies um he mentioned in the raw footage

um he mentioned in the raw footage video, there's also a thing there where

video, there's also a thing there where he says, "I don't know what the life

he says, "I don't know what the life expectancy of a Ziploc bag is," or

expectancy of a Ziploc bag is," or something like that. And um I don't know

something like that. And um I don't know if those were spoken about at other

if those were spoken about at other times, the kind of the

times, the kind of the functionality of some of the elements in

functionality of some of the elements in there, the way he had, you know, put

there, the way he had, you know, put things up. But um

things up. But um the scissors.

the scissors. Yeah. I guess a lot of people were um a

Yeah. I guess a lot of people were um a lot of people were familiar with the um

lot of people were familiar with the um with the photograph that had those

with the photograph that had those enormous and and not real sapphires and

enormous and and not real sapphires and rubies.

rubies. um thinking that those would be in

um thinking that those would be in there. And um and Forest made it clear

there. And um and Forest made it clear that those things were not in there,

that those things were not in there, that he was just uh tinkering around

that he was just uh tinkering around with different iterations of this chest

with different iterations of this chest and taking photographs and thinking

and taking photographs and thinking about it. He had watches that he put in

about it. He had watches that he put in there and then removed.

there and then removed. He had a couple of $500 bills that he

He had a couple of $500 bills that he put in there and removed. Well, and you

put in there and removed. Well, and you were your channel did that full analysis

were your channel did that full analysis of the potential contents of the chest

of the potential contents of the chest and what they

and what they Yeah, that was the picture that was

Yeah, that was the picture that was really um astounding. But yeah, I mean

really um astounding. But yeah, I mean it was it was in need of a shower, you

it was it was in need of a shower, you know, it still a supermodel, but it it

know, it still a supermodel, but it it just woke up and it needs to take a

just woke up and it needs to take a shower and get some makeup and she's a

shower and get some makeup and she's a beauty. So, I don't know. I I thought I

beauty. So, I don't know. I I thought I I I thought it was great, but it was

I I thought it was great, but it was dirty. It it had been in the ground or

dirty. It it had been in the ground or near the ground for a decade. So, you

near the ground for a decade. So, you know, what do you expect?

know, what do you expect? Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm not quite

Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm not quite clear on, you know, what people were

clear on, you know, what people were expecting. I mean, like that, you know,

expecting. I mean, like that, you know, the real shiny quintessential chest. I

the real shiny quintessential chest. I mean,

mean, it's been in the dirt a decade. You

it's been in the dirt a decade. You know, it's like it's not an airtight

know, it's like it's not an airtight container. It's going to get dirty and

container. It's going to get dirty and groy. And I I think it it looked about

groy. And I I think it it looked about how I expected. Um, I guess I

how I expected. Um, I guess I anticipated a bit more patina, but

anticipated a bit more patina, but overall it looked about about how I

overall it looked about about how I expected. And that was kind of the

expected. And that was kind of the interesting part to me is like you look

interesting part to me is like you look at the stages of bronze and how pat over

at the stages of bronze and how pat over time you enter I I I like I color coded

time you enter I I I like I color coded them at some point and I was watching

them at some point and I was watching the years because over the years we were

the years because over the years we were going to enter from brown to green

going to enter from brown to green phase, right? It was going to start

phase, right? It was going to start entering that green. So, did you take

entering that green. So, did you take like samples of bronze and age them

like samples of bronze and age them outside to see how they would age or or

outside to see how they would age or or what are you talking about?

what are you talking about? Um, I mean I I tried to accelerate the

Um, I mean I I tried to accelerate the patina process myself just because of

patina process myself just because of the dog training thing, but that's

the dog training thing, but that's Yeah,

Yeah, mostly I had just been looking online to

mostly I had just been looking online to see like how how bronze patina over time

see like how how bronze patina over time and there's basically an age indicator

and there's basically an age indicator if it's been exposed to elements this

if it's been exposed to elements this number of years and it'll be generally

number of years and it'll be generally this color. And you know, I had told my

this color. And you know, I had told my buddy, I think it was last year, I said,

buddy, I think it was last year, I said, "We're just starting to enter the early

"We're just starting to enter the early stages of the green phase." So, wh

stages of the green phase." So, wh which buddy?

which buddy? Tyler.

Tyler. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm telling you, Tyler needs a reality

I'm telling you, Tyler needs a reality show.

show. He's doing something.

He's doing something. So, you know, we were at the very early

So, you know, we were at the very early stages of the of the green phase. You

stages of the of the green phase. You know, it reminds me of uh was it Twister

know, it reminds me of uh was it Twister where he says, "We're going green." You

where he says, "We're going green." You know, when he's looking at the sky. Um

know, when he's looking at the sky. Um yeah. Yeah. The stages of a material out

yeah. Yeah. The stages of a material out in a wilderness that's similar to

in a wilderness that's similar to something in the Rocky Mountains.

something in the Rocky Mountains. Yeah.

Yeah. Moisture, cold, heat, um all of those

Moisture, cold, heat, um all of those kinds of things.

kinds of things. So, you were surprised when you saw the

So, you were surprised when you saw the chest that it hadn't reached a certain

chest that it hadn't reached a certain stage.

stage. Um I I expected it to be a just a tad

Um I I expected it to be a just a tad bit more green than it was.

bit more green than it was. Yeah, just a tad.

Yeah, just a tad. Me, too.

Me, too. Yeah. Do you think it's do you think

Yeah. Do you think it's do you think there's any potential that it was buried

there's any potential that it was buried versus out out in a nook somewhere

versus out out in a nook somewhere that's intombed like we have, you know,

that's intombed like we have, you know, subultured uh septic, however you want

subultured uh septic, however you want to say that,

to say that, you know, and then we have pictures

you know, and then we have pictures after it was just recently removed from

after it was just recently removed from its nook and it really didn't have that

its nook and it really didn't have that same kind of aged look to it that I was

same kind of aged look to it that I was expecting.

expecting. Yeah. I I I mean, I don't know. I'm

Yeah. I I I mean, I don't know. I'm certainly no expert in the space, but if

certainly no expert in the space, but if I were to have to venture a guess, I

I were to have to venture a guess, I would say that

would say that it had some level of protection that,

it had some level of protection that, you know, maybe slowed the patina

you know, maybe slowed the patina process slightly. I don't know. It's

process slightly. I don't know. It's It's tough to say. Yeah.

It's tough to say. Yeah. Now, what would that be, though? Would

Now, what would that be, though? Would that be buried or would it be

that be buried or would it be subultured? Would it be um nooked?

subultured? Would it be um nooked? Would it be nooked or sticked? Sorry. Or

Would it be nooked or sticked? Sorry. Or slowpoked? No. Bad. Bad, bad jokes. Bad

slowpoked? No. Bad. Bad, bad jokes. Bad jokes.

jokes. I think Matt missed that joke. Thank

I think Matt missed that joke. Thank goodness.

It's Oh, Matt missed the joke. You should tell. You need to retell the joke

should tell. You need to retell the joke for everyone.

for everyone. No, I can't tell that twice. That's just

No, I can't tell that twice. That's just Can I tell it because it was good.

Can I tell it because it was good. Sure. Yeah, go for it. Yeah,

Sure. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I can't remember it.

I can't remember it. Don't worry, it's in text. You can just

Don't worry, it's in text. You can just pull it up. Oh, that's right.

pull it up. Oh, that's right. It was just something silly that you

It was just something silly that you know I I was a joke that I made up. It

know I I was a joke that I made up. It was a silly pun and it's

was a silly pun and it's he was four side cars in people. Don't

he was four side cars in people. Don't worry about it.

worry about it. Four side car joke. Okay.

Four side car joke. Okay. Yeah. And I'm sure probably the joke

Yeah. And I'm sure probably the joke already exists, but I felt clever for

already exists, but I felt clever for making it up and it's just silly. I

making it up and it's just silly. I mean, it's

mean, it's I thought it was good. Okay, I'm pulling

I thought it was good. Okay, I'm pulling it up right now. Hold on. Oh, here we

it up right now. Hold on. Oh, here we go.

go. I made a pun today.

I made a pun today. What do you call a sloth having sex?

It shouldn't be that funny. We're We're seeing another side of

We're We're seeing another side of Justin tonight.

Justin tonight. Well, that's what you get when you get

Well, that's what you get when you get four side cars in me.

four side cars in me. I have I have the most I am so hopeful

I have I have the most I am so hopeful that Justin somehow ends up with the

that Justin somehow ends up with the treasure chest and hides it again for us

treasure chest and hides it again for us all to find it again.

all to find it again. I will say that if I were to have found

I will say that if I were to have found that thing, my plan was to uh write up

that thing, my plan was to uh write up the solution and put it in the chest and

the solution and put it in the chest and then rehide it along with some other

then rehide it along with some other items that I have been collecting. So,

items that I have been collecting. So, you know, it'd be that'd be impetus for

you know, it'd be that'd be impetus for some folks to get out and search for it.

some folks to get out and search for it. Yeah. You think just a little?

Yeah. You think just a little? Yeah. Didn't Didn't quite work out.

Yeah. Didn't Didn't quite work out. Hey, it still might work out. It still

Hey, it still might work out. It still might work out.

might work out. It could.

It could. You still might end up with it. And And

You still might end up with it. And And if you do, I promise not to stalk you or

if you do, I promise not to stalk you or go all 7enter on you. I promise. Not

go all 7enter on you. I promise. Not going to happen. Oh, wait. I lied.

going to happen. Oh, wait. I lied. All right. Truck and Treasure says,

All right. Truck and Treasure says, "What if every what if every that got

"What if every what if every that got the book, I'm guessing everyone that got

the book, I'm guessing everyone that got the book was able to solve the poem, the

the book was able to solve the poem, the spot could have been literally trampled?

spot could have been literally trampled? How would Forest feel about his special

How would Forest feel about his special spot knowing everyone could go there?"

Early on though, I have a I when I interviewed Forest back in um 2015,

interviewed Forest back in um 2015, he actually says he would he would if

he actually says he would he would if the finder doesn't mind revealing the

the finder doesn't mind revealing the spot, he was good with it back in 2015.

spot, he was good with it back in 2015. So, how does that apply today as far as

So, how does that apply today as far as uh the family saying that they didn't

uh the family saying that they didn't want it revealed?

want it revealed? Well, there were a lot of crazy people

Well, there were a lot of crazy people that happened between 2015 and now. So

that happened between 2015 and now. So in the last five years, I mean in the

in the last five years, I mean in the last five years it changed so much the

last five years it changed so much the chase community and the crazy people

chase community and the crazy people that had come forward. You had the

that had come forward. You had the people that died starting in 2016. So uh

people that died starting in 2016. So uh you know a lot a lot happened after he

you know a lot a lot happened after he said that in 2015. I don't I don't know

said that in 2015. I don't I don't know if anyone particular thing changed his

if anyone particular thing changed his mind or he just really really was being

mind or he just really really was being supportive of Jack.

supportive of Jack. don't know.

don't know. So, we have we have 15 years working on

So, we have we have 15 years working on something that was so clever it was

something that was so clever it was going to take a hundred to a thousand

going to take a hundred to a thousand years to solve. We have Jack, right? Uh

years to solve. We have Jack, right? Uh with the family saying we don't want to

with the family saying we don't want to reveal it because then the spot becomes

reveal it because then the spot becomes like the um like the recent monolith

like the um like the recent monolith that was found. I almost actually put

that was found. I almost actually put I've got a little um like narrow box

I've got a little um like narrow box where you could put foil on it and make

where you could put foil on it and make it look like that little monolith that

it look like that little monolith that was found everywhere. I was going to put

was found everywhere. I was going to put that in the background.

that in the background. But I mean, we do know that spaces like

But I mean, we do know that spaces like that do get overwhelmed

that do get overwhelmed and do become then public knowledge, but

and do become then public knowledge, but forest seem to be okay with that before.

forest seem to be okay with that before. And yet, we're getting information that

And yet, we're getting information that says he's that that he he preferred it

says he's that that he he preferred it not to be known. Now, I you know, I

not to be known. Now, I you know, I there's so much conflicting stuff which

there's so much conflicting stuff which is is not new to the TTOC chase.

is is not new to the TTOC chase. But, you know, how do you reconcile

But, you know, how do you reconcile that? You know, never knowing the spot.

that? You know, never knowing the spot. We don't know if we figure things out,

We don't know if we figure things out, if we'll ever know 100% if we figured it

if we'll ever know 100% if we figured it out, except for the stick.

out, except for the stick. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. We're

I'm telling you. I'm telling you. We're gonna We're going to send you all a

gonna We're going to send you all a picture of all of us bent over, butts in

picture of all of us bent over, butts in the air with sticks in our hands,

the air with sticks in our hands, verifying it with the image on our

verifying it with the image on our iPads. Nope. Nope.

iPads. Nope. Nope. That was me earlier. Earlier this year

That was me earlier. Earlier this year at that

at that Oh, that's right. Tell us about that.

Oh, that's right. Tell us about that. Tell us what you're doing because Jenny

Tell us what you're doing because Jenny was cracking me up the look she was

was cracking me up the look she was giving you when you were telling us

giving you when you were telling us about that.

about that. Oh, no. I mean, I just I was spent hours

Oh, no. I mean, I just I was spent hours out there like four hours straight just

out there like four hours straight just digging through the dirt looking for

digging through the dirt looking for these the silly stick trying to trying

these the silly stick trying to trying to get a match. And of course

to get a match. And of course GPS location, right?

GPS location, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And you never found I mean

Yeah. And you never found I mean obviously it's going to be hard, right?

obviously it's going to be hard, right? But but at this point that's the only

But but at this point that's the only thing we have that's left there apart

thing we have that's left there apart from potentially maybe that ring.

from potentially maybe that ring. Um

Um I can say with reasonable confidence

I can say with reasonable confidence that that stick was not within a 20 foot

that that stick was not within a 20 foot radius of the you know the core

radius of the you know the core geographic coordinate solution location.

geographic coordinate solution location. Damn that is some severe search. Oh my

Damn that is some severe search. Oh my god.

god. It's not there. So you know if he tossed

It's not there. So you know if he tossed it aside there and that is the location

it aside there and that is the location then he tossed it pretty uh pretty hard.

then he tossed it pretty uh pretty hard. Oh

Oh So what's your opinion about that then?

So what's your opinion about that then? I mean,

I mean, it just goes back to the numbers, you

it just goes back to the numbers, you know? It's

from the the numbers aspect, it's hard to refute, but there are a lot of things

to refute, but there are a lot of things outside the numbers that make it easy to

outside the numbers that make it easy to refute.

So, do we think that um I know I've said this before, but I mean I didn't think

this before, but I mean I didn't think we were ever going to know the finder

we were ever going to know the finder and we know the finder now. And we don't

and we know the finder now. And we don't only know the finder, but he's answering

only know the finder, but he's answering everyone's emails. Not I don't I don't

everyone's emails. Not I don't I don't know if it's everyone, but

know if it's everyone, but so many, right? He's really making a

so many, right? He's really making a huge effort

huge effort to do what Forest did. And he's

to do what Forest did. And he's answering in a very similar fashion. I

answering in a very similar fashion. I can't imagine that is coincidental. I'm

can't imagine that is coincidental. I'm guessing he um has taken a cue

guessing he um has taken a cue from Forest um as far as how to answer

from Forest um as far as how to answer a hundred people emailing you, right?

a hundred people emailing you, right? There's there's there's got to be like a

There's there's there's got to be like a funnel that goes towards the psychology

funnel that goes towards the psychology of how you have to respond to people um

of how you have to respond to people um when everyone's asking you a question.

when everyone's asking you a question. And it it you know, it probably ends up

And it it you know, it probably ends up being very similar to the Fen. I mean, I

being very similar to the Fen. I mean, I don't know. What do you guys think as

don't know. What do you guys think as far as the similarities between the way

far as the similarities between the way he's answering and the way Forest

he's answering and the way Forest answered? Like that's just what

answered? Like that's just what ultimately happens when you have to

ultimately happens when you have to answer questions for people asking these

answer questions for people asking these things.

things. We should crowdsource this. So I think

We should crowdsource this. So I think what Forest may have done in certain

what Forest may have done in certain cases is put out publicly the answers to

cases is put out publicly the answers to questions that he got frequently so he

questions that he got frequently so he doesn't have to just keep answering the

doesn't have to just keep answering the same thing over again. Um,

same thing over again. Um, if all of us sent unique questions to

if all of us sent unique questions to Jack,

Jack, that would be I think that'd be a better

that would be I think that'd be a better strategy for us as a community because

strategy for us as a community because then there wouldn't be the same question

then there wouldn't be the same question over. So, he couldn't be like, well,

over. So, he couldn't be like, well, just publish these up on the site. Like,

just publish these up on the site. Like, everything's unique and so we get a lot

everything's unique and so we get a lot more answers. I I don't know. Just just

more answers. I I don't know. Just just my two cents.

What do you think, Matt? You were about to speak. Um, I've kind of forgotten the

to speak. Um, I've kind of forgotten the question, but but I'm gonna but I'm

question, but but I'm gonna but I'm gonna answer it anyway.

gonna answer it anyway. Excellent. That's the best show ever.

Excellent. That's the best show ever. No, I think um I mean he could have been

No, I think um I mean he could have been he could have been an He could

he could have been an He could have been a jerk and he's not.

have been a jerk and he's not. Turns out he's

Turns out he's he's being generous. He's answering

he's being generous. He's answering these questions. He's

these questions. He's trying to see the silver lining. I mean,

trying to see the silver lining. I mean, he ends um that one, was it the the

he ends um that one, was it the the second Medium article where he kind of

second Medium article where he kind of ends on a positive note. I mean, these

ends on a positive note. I mean, these are the worst circumstances you can

are the worst circumstances you can imagine. He he's rightfully

imagine. He he's rightfully upset about all this that that someone

upset about all this that that someone has forced his hand. It's very clear how

has forced his hand. It's very clear how the family feels, very clear how

the family feels, very clear how he feels. We can assume we know what how

he feels. We can assume we know what how Forest felt. No, this is wrong. What's

Forest felt. No, this is wrong. What's happening? And yet he puts a positive

happening? And yet he puts a positive spin in jackets mail. He comes out and

spin in jackets mail. He comes out and says, "This was a this was a joy. This

says, "This was a this was a joy. This is so surprising to meet all you nice

is so surprising to meet all you nice people, you know, and um so I think it's

people, you know, and um so I think it's great. I think it's great. I mean,

great. I think it's great. I mean, you talked about like the the

you talked about like the the similarities. I think it's inevitable

similarities. I think it's inevitable because he has secrets. he needs to keep

because he has secrets. he needs to keep um

um and he has to think about

and he has to think about you know what if I say this to this

you know what if I say this to this person this person's going to parse

person this person's going to parse every word and um so yeah it feels it

every word and um so yeah it feels it feels a lot like it when I'm sitting

feels a lot like it when I'm sitting there trying to put together an email it

there trying to put together an email it feels like when I used to write forest

feels like when I used to write forest and I wanted information

and I wanted information do I just say I want information or do I

do I just say I want information or do I say hey how are you

hope that he likes me back. The soft the family,

the family, what do I do? You know,

what do I do? You know, and um so and I and he's smart enough to

and um so and I and he's smart enough to know all that. I mean, it's it's very

know all that. I mean, it's it's very obvious that we're all we we want

obvious that we're all we we want information. He's

information. He's we're desperate for information.

we're desperate for information. Yeah. I I I just wonder it can't it

Yeah. I I I just wonder it can't it can't this can't last.

can't this can't last. He even did it for a few days and then

He even did it for a few days and then in Jack's in Jack gets mail he said I'm

in Jack's in Jack gets mail he said I'm I'm gonna step back

I'm gonna step back and it has slowed down. It has slowed

and it has slowed down. It has slowed down. He doesn't want to you know I

down. He doesn't want to you know I don't know if he's in residency. If he

don't know if he's in residency. If he is, it's amazing that he answered as

is, it's amazing that he answered as many emails as he did.

many emails as he did. That would be mind-blowing. Right.

That would be mind-blowing. Right. Right. So, he's working like 24 hours,

Right. So, he's working like 24 hours, then he has 24 hours off or whatever it

then he has 24 hours off or whatever it Why answer why answer all? Why, you

Why answer why answer all? Why, you know, um obviously coming forward, but

know, um obviously coming forward, but so generously saying, "Here's my email,

so generously saying, "Here's my email, right?" Why?

right?" Why? I think even people who aren't active in

I think even people who aren't active in the Chase community can still feel very

the Chase community can still feel very much a part of the Chase community. And

much a part of the Chase community. And I think he I think he felt that he you

I think he I think he felt that he you know he read the material he knew people

know he read the material he knew people he watched show shows cared about this

he watched show shows cared about this he liked for us you know and and I think

he liked for us you know and and I think you know I think it was I hope it was

you know I think it was I hope it was enjoyable for him. He said it was it was

enjoyable for him. He said it was it was a pleasant surprise. He was all like hey

a pleasant surprise. He was all like hey I'm I'm 1500 miles away from the

I'm I'm 1500 miles away from the treasure chest. I've got guards. I've

treasure chest. I've got guards. I've taken precautions. Get away from me. I

taken precautions. Get away from me. I don't want friends. And then all these

don't want friends. And then all these friendly people started saying, "Hey,

friendly people started saying, "Hey, congratulations." And he's like, "I'm

congratulations." And he's like, "I'm sorry, guys."

sorry, guys." A crap.

A crap. Sorry I with my hose and told you to get

Sorry I with my hose and told you to get off my lawn.

off my lawn. You know, that's what he said that I'm

You know, that's what he said that I'm feeling kind of bad that I was so

feeling kind of bad that I was so cranky.

cranky. Were you cranky?

Were you cranky? He He was kind of cranky.

He He was kind of cranky. He was Oh, I see.

He was Oh, I see. He's being sued.

He's being sued. Yeah, he was basically like, "Don't f

Yeah, he was basically like, "Don't f with me."

with me." Yes. Because I mean, it's it's no, you

Yes. Because I mean, it's it's no, you know, we all know that what what Forest

know, we all know that what what Forest and his family went through. That's, you

and his family went through. That's, you know, it's it's no secret. Um, you know,

know, it's it's no secret. Um, you know, the axeman

the axeman or the axeman,

or the axeman, right? That was not the axeman in the

right? That was not the axeman in the book. The one who broke in and stole a

book. The one who broke in and stole a chest full of dirt.

chest full of dirt. that aximan, right? So, I mean, I part

that aximan, right? So, I mean, I part of me was very very comforted by the

of me was very very comforted by the fact that he was aware enough to um

fact that he was aware enough to um protect his family from that from

protect his family from that from getting to a place where um and it's

getting to a place where um and it's funny when he said, you know, guards and

funny when he said, you know, guards and all that kind of stuff. Uh I was unaware

all that kind of stuff. Uh I was unaware of those types of communities until I

of those types of communities until I lived in Houston. And in Houston, um so

lived in Houston. And in Houston, um so many communities are actually like that,

many communities are actually like that, right? It's it's like it there's no um

right? It's it's like it there's no um what do they call it? Codes for for what

what do they call it? Codes for for what you can and can't do in certain

you can and can't do in certain subdivisions. They don't have that in

subdivisions. They don't have that in Houston. So So individual subdivisions

Houston. So So individual subdivisions create their own codes and stuff like

create their own codes and stuff like that. And so having gated communities is

that. And so having gated communities is actually really common in Houston,

actually really common in Houston, right? So when I heard that he had done

right? So when I heard that he had done that for me, I was like, "Yeah, it's a

that for me, I was like, "Yeah, it's a common thing that people do in certain

common thing that people do in certain communities." But for a lot of people

communities." But for a lot of people unaware of that, they were just like,

unaware of that, they were just like, "He did what? he did where well, you

"He did what? he did where well, you know, guarded gates, all this kind of

know, guarded gates, all this kind of stuff. Um, and I I don't know if it was

stuff. Um, and I I don't know if it was in Michigan where where where he set all

in Michigan where where where he set all that up, but um in Houston at least,

that up, but um in Houston at least, it's not an uncommon thing

it's not an uncommon thing and having a little gate where you you

and having a little gate where you you come in and out. Um,

come in and out. Um, I saw in in an online space that is not

I saw in in an online space that is not set up to trash everything and is kind

set up to trash everything and is kind of, you know, all about hate.

of, you know, all about hate. Not one of those places, but

Not one of those places, but friendly. I saw I saw his address

friendly. I saw I saw his address posted. I saw his occupation. I saw

posted. I saw his occupation. I saw where he lived. I saw all this. And I

where he lived. I saw all this. And I moderators need to delete this stuff.

moderators need to delete this stuff. And he he he he knows he knows that

And he he he he knows he knows that people will knock on his door.

people will knock on his door. He knows that he's going to be walking

He knows that he's going to be walking down the street and somebody's just

down the street and somebody's just going to walk up to him.

going to walk up to him. He knows that. It's terrible. But he he

He knows that. It's terrible. But he he knows the world he lives in and and were

knows the world he lives in and and were able to find each other and people

able to find each other and people found,

found, you know, awful jokes he made when he

you know, awful jokes he made when he was 21 years old and he got fired for

was 21 years old and he got fired for doing it, you know, and they're judging

doing it, you know, and they're judging him for that and they can people can

him for that and they can people can think whatever they want.

think whatever they want. Um, but I think he I think he learned a

Um, but I think he I think he learned a lot. I don't know if that's what's

lot. I don't know if that's what's Yeah, he was young.

Yeah, he was young. He was very young

He was very young when that happened. He was very young

when that happened. He was very young and and and you know I have a couple of

and and and you know I have a couple of 21 year olds and they're kind of dumb.

21 year olds and they're kind of dumb. We're all brains at

We're all brains at they have a few years of of mistakes to

they have a few years of of mistakes to make before they you know Amy you

make before they you know Amy you drinking of that?

drinking of that? I have to I have to we are we are there

I have to I have to we are we are there so many of us who are over 40 are so

so many of us who are over 40 are so grateful that social media hadn't taken

grateful that social media hadn't taken hold yet.

hold yet. Right.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be held accountable for what I did when I

held accountable for what I did when I was 21. I mean,

was 21. I mean, yeah,

yeah, whatever. I I I sort of see it in

whatever. I I I sort of see it in context, but

context, but uh what did you do when you

uh what did you do when you My wider point was that this whole idea

My wider point was that this whole idea of of going after him. Hey, I found out

of of going after him. Hey, I found out where he works. Hey, I find I found out

where he works. Hey, I find I found out where he lived. Hey, I know who his mom

where he lived. Hey, I know who his mom is. Hey, I got his dad's phone number.

is. Hey, I got his dad's phone number. Hey, I called them. Hey, I did this.

Hey, I called them. Hey, I did this. Like,

Like, creepy.

creepy. Yeah. And moderators need to just delete

Yeah. And moderators need to just delete all that stuff and be very conservative

all that stuff and be very conservative about it. lean on the side of I mean

about it. lean on the side of I mean lean on the side of if this were your

lean on the side of if this were your sibling, if this were your mother, if

sibling, if this were your mother, if this were your kid,

this were your kid, would you delete that information?

would you delete that information? Yeah, he deserves he deserves respect

Yeah, he deserves he deserves respect and and privacy and

and and privacy and yeah,

yeah, left alone if he wants to be left alone.

left alone if he wants to be left alone. Yeah, it's unfortunate that we have when

Yeah, it's unfortunate that we have when I

I Forest talked about the sevenenters when

Forest talked about the sevenenters when I was with him, he said I think we need

I was with him, he said I think we need to raise that number and he said the

to raise that number and he said the 12enters. So, I don't know where he got

12enters. So, I don't know where he got seven. I don't know where he got 12, but

seven. I don't know where he got 12, but the final word was 12enter. So,

the final word was 12enter. So, dang. All right. So, what's the latest

dang. All right. So, what's the latest word as far as when you were with Forest

word as far as when you were with Forest and like on our last show, you were

and like on our last show, you were talking about you were with Forest, but

talking about you were with Forest, but you didn't know for sure if he had known

you didn't know for sure if he had known uh about the find yet or not. And so

uh about the find yet or not. And so far, it seems like he knew. He

far, it seems like he knew. He absolutely did know. Um

absolutely did know. Um yeah. So, so I I was um

yeah. So, so I I was um I was searching very close and oh so

I was searching very close and oh so very far from where was and um I had I

very far from where was and um I had I had never met uh Forest. I had never met

had never met uh Forest. I had never met Cynthia Meechum and uh

Cynthia Meechum and uh but Forest was a big fan of yours

but Forest was a big fan of yours because of your videos. Uh we had we had

because of your videos. Uh we had we had had some back and forth and um it was a

had some back and forth and um it was a lot of fun in the spring making those

lot of fun in the spring making those videos and he finally just said we were

videos and he finally just said we were all very afraid of COVID but I think we

all very afraid of COVID but I think we were learning that we could there were

were learning that we could there were safe ways that we could meet and he

safe ways that we could meet and he invited me and so I showed up to his

invited me and so I showed up to his home about 10 10 a.m. in the morning on

home about 10 10 a.m. in the morning on June 6th, Saturday.

June 6th, Saturday. Uh spent a couple hours with him

Uh spent a couple hours with him uh and uh his dog and we just chatted.

uh and uh his dog and we just chatted. He's got nothing but time. Yeah.

He's got nothing but time. Yeah. And that's and that was the line that

And that's and that was the line that that there was a a low in the

that there was a a low in the conversation. I said, "For I said, I

conversation. I said, "For I said, I don't want to take it take up any more

don't want to take it take up any more of your time." And he turned to me and

of your time." And he turned to me and said, "Matt, I've got nothing but time.

So, you know, when hours later when Cynthia and I are together, I'm telling

Cynthia and I are together, I'm telling her this, I'm like, how could that man

her this, I'm like, how could that man say that? But, um, Jack wrote me and

say that? But, um, Jack wrote me and said that he absolutely did know. He had

said that he absolutely did know. He had found out the night before on Friday.

found out the night before on Friday. He had gotten that picture, I think.

He had gotten that picture, I think. Yeah, he got the picture and then

Yeah, he got the picture and then he was kind of waiting for Jack to to

he was kind of waiting for Jack to to like have it in his car, gassed up,

like have it in his car, gassed up, ready to go kind of, you know, all that.

ready to go kind of, you know, all that. And um

And um and yeah, I we were just chatting about,

and yeah, I we were just chatting about, you know, whatever current events and

you know, whatever current events and was not I'll say this, Forest was not

was not I'll say this, Forest was not interested in hearing about my search.

interested in hearing about my search. [Laughter]

[Laughter] I haven't figured out why,

I haven't figured out why, but uh I had a whole 30 minute

but uh I had a whole 30 minute presentation. I was gonna tell him all

presentation. I was gonna tell him all about my

about my No, I I didn't I didn't really want to

No, I I didn't I didn't really want to talk about it very much, but I mean I ju

talk about it very much, but I mean I ju I had just come from searching, so I

I had just come from searching, so I thought we would talk for at least five

thought we would talk for at least five or 10 minutes about it, but no, he

or 10 minutes about it, but no, he he wanted to talk about, you know,

he wanted to talk about, you know, that that's mind-blowing. So, he knew it

that that's mind-blowing. So, he knew it was found. He's hanging out with you.

was found. He's hanging out with you. As calm as can be. I thought he might

As calm as can be. I thought he might just like take a nap.

just like take a nap. Jesus.

Jesus. Like an old

Like an old And he knew the treasure was found and

And he knew the treasure was found and was on its way.

was on its way. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep.

Yep. That is

That is I'm just incredible timing, Matt. I

I'm just incredible timing, Matt. I mean, just

mean, just I can't imagine

I can't imagine having more uncanny timing than you had.

having more uncanny timing than you had. Well, that that uncanniness is what kept

Well, that that uncanniness is what kept Cynthia and I up until like two in the

Cynthia and I up until like two in the morning.

morning. Like our minds spinning. We're like,

Like our minds spinning. We're like, "Let's What did What did we do? Make a

"Let's What did What did we do? Make a beer run?" We just like ran.

beer run?" We just like ran. Let's go on the live streams. Let's

Let's go on the live streams. Let's figure this out. What?

figure this out. What? Your first meeting with Forest.

Your first meeting with Forest. Your very first meeting with Forest.

Your very first meeting with Forest. And it's the the day and your first

And it's the the day and your first meeting with Cynthia,

meeting with Cynthia, right? I came out of there and Cynthia

right? I came out of there and Cynthia was was like, "Come on down." So, I went

was was like, "Come on down." So, I went down there and we hung out. And

down there and we hung out. And Matt, I'm curious like just in

Matt, I'm curious like just in retrospect now, do you

retrospect now, do you Oops.

Oops. What are your feelings on,

What are your feelings on, you know, when the stage of the hunt

you know, when the stage of the hunt where you got involved and the degree to

where you got involved and the degree to which you got involved?

which you got involved? Would would you have changed anything if

Would would you have changed anything if you had to do it over with? Would you

you had to do it over with? Would you just not even bother? Like what what's

just not even bother? Like what what's your outlook on that?

your outlook on that? Like if I had known that it was going to

Like if I had known that it was going to be found on the

be found on the Sure.

tough question would have pushed it even harder and I

would have pushed it even harder and I did some really stupid things hiking

did some really stupid things hiking alone.

alone. Um I

Um I dangerous.

dangerous. Well,

Well, I um

I um I was at a I was at a point in the

I was at a I was at a point in the landscape where I needed to like descend

landscape where I needed to like descend this this hill. It wasn't really a

this this hill. It wasn't really a cliff, but it's the kind of thing that

cliff, but it's the kind of thing that would take you 15 minutes to go down and

would take you 15 minutes to go down and two and a half hours to go back up. And

two and a half hours to go back up. And I knew that. And so I knew that this was

I knew that. And so I knew that this was a one-way street. And I was going into

a one-way street. And I was going into an area I'd never been in before. And

an area I'd never been in before. And when I got down there, it was just

when I got down there, it was just crazy with with deadfall.

crazy with with deadfall. And so I don't know how fast a person is

And so I don't know how fast a person is going when they're hiking normally on a

going when they're hiking normally on a nice trail,

nice trail, but with with down trees everywhere and

but with with down trees everywhere and occasionally going over six of them and

occasionally going over six of them and realizing that you really need to go

realizing that you really need to go back and and go around and then, you

back and and go around and then, you know, like once I got down there and I

know, like once I got down there and I turned around and I looked at what I had

turned around and I looked at what I had done and I thought about this and at

done and I thought about this and at this point it's about like 1:45

this point it's about like 1:45 And I was like, and there's no self-

And I was like, and there's no self- service. Like, I'm not getting back out

service. Like, I'm not getting back out into civilization until seven or eight

into civilization until seven or eight o'clock and I'm walking out and I've

o'clock and I'm walking out and I've been up since six and just I w I was

been up since six and just I w I was never afraid for my life. I mean,

never afraid for my life. I mean, there's always grizzlies and that kind

there's always grizzlies and that kind of thing. But it's just like

of thing. But it's just like I shouldn't have made that, you know, I

I shouldn't have made that, you know, I I got that hunger for here I am. I've

I got that hunger for here I am. I've come so far, whatever. So, um, and I

come so far, whatever. So, um, and I did. I mean, I had to walk out. I It was

did. I mean, I had to walk out. I It was Was this obviously with Grizzlies? This

Was this obviously with Grizzlies? This was

was It was mentioned It was actually

It was mentioned It was actually mentioned in the Justin article, if I

mentioned in the Justin article, if I can call it that.

can call it that. Oh, jeez.

Oh, jeez. You can call it

You can call it that I came out. It was very um it was

that I came out. It was very um it was like a bog.

like a bog. um in in sort of these areas. You guys

um in in sort of these areas. You guys have encountered this where on the on a

have encountered this where on the on a river bank it'll sometimes go for for 20

river bank it'll sometimes go for for 20 30 yards where it's just like you know

30 yards where it's just like you know three inches of water but just

three inches of water but just everywhere

everywhere and and I was trying to avoid that. I

and and I was trying to avoid that. I didn't want wet socks but eventually I'm

didn't want wet socks but eventually I'm just like you know it. I got I got

just like you know it. I got I got to go through here. I have wet feet. I

to go through here. I have wet feet. I come out into a um a cult. It was it was

come out into a um a cult. It was it was a cult uh land. They had I think they

a cult uh land. They had I think they were going to have a greenhouse.

were going to have a greenhouse. Bunch of people in robes chanting.

Bunch of people in robes chanting. They never put up the greenhouse. So,

They never put up the greenhouse. So, they just had the skeleton of this

they just had the skeleton of this greenhouse. And then I saw this thing

greenhouse. And then I saw this thing that you can see on Google Earth. It

that you can see on Google Earth. It just looks like these little circles

just looks like these little circles like someone like God has drawn little

like someone like God has drawn little circles but those are air vents and they

circles but those are air vents and they let in light and there

let in light and there pot

pot uh no like there's a way to go

uh no like there's a way to go underground and then you shut the door

underground and then you shut the door and now everybody is underground but up

and now everybody is underground but up on this rise are these circles. They're

on this rise are these circles. They're huge. The the smaller ones are like five

huge. The the smaller ones are like five feet in diameter and the larger ones are

feet in diameter and the larger ones are 15 feet. I'm coming out in this. I'm

15 feet. I'm coming out in this. I'm already writing like what am I gonna say

already writing like what am I gonna say when the cult leader comes out with the

when the cult leader comes out with the guns and I'm and and I'm just walking

guns and I'm and and I'm just walking walking walking and I didn't get back. I

walking walking and I didn't get back. I mean my wife was furious with me

mean my wife was furious with me as she should be. I didn't have cell

as she should be. I didn't have cell service until like like I didn't call

service until like like I didn't call her until seven, you know.

her until seven, you know. So

So you need to hang out with Tyler.

All right. Hit me up. Hit me up, Tyler. I will convey that message.

I will convey that message. That's crazy. This was a real place. I

That's crazy. This was a real place. I mean, a real crazy place. If you are in

mean, a real crazy place. If you are in the Gardener Valley and you go past uh

the Gardener Valley and you go past uh Devil's Slide,

Devil's Slide, which everyone thought was Home of

which everyone thought was Home of Brown,

Brown, there's a way to turn back into that

there's a way to turn back into that canyon.

canyon. And right there, it's very obvious. You

And right there, it's very obvious. You can see some structures, some buildings,

can see some structures, some buildings, and they're obviously kind of there's

and they're obviously kind of there's there's you can see some uh not crosses,

there's you can see some uh not crosses, or maybe they are crosses, but you can

or maybe they are crosses, but you can see that it's like, oh, these are this

see that it's like, oh, these are this is some kind of a church. And then you

is some kind of a church. And then you see like the most expensive cars out

see like the most expensive cars out parked out front, lots of limousines and

parked out front, lots of limousines and and all this stuff. And and

and all this stuff. And and what's the name of that place? The the

what's the name of that place? The the the

the I forgotten. I've forgotten. But you can

I forgotten. I've forgotten. But you can you can look it up. It's right there.

you can look it up. It's right there. They they own Devil's Slide and they

They they own Devil's Slide and they don't like the name. They want to call

don't like the name. They want to call it Angel Slide or something.

it Angel Slide or something. That's right. Yep.

That's right. Yep.

But they also own if you take that road back

back we were talking about land earlier and

we were talking about land earlier and this was a question.

this was a question. Yes.

Yes. When

When when the land is private property

when the land is private property because it's been acquired but you can

because it's been acquired but you can still drive on the road.

still drive on the road. I I legally.

I I legally. Yeah. Um, but those people who own that

Yeah. Um, but those people who own that land, they'll they'll often post signs

land, they'll they'll often post signs that are deliberately misleading, saying

that are deliberately misleading, saying private property, and you're not sure if

private property, and you're not sure if that means the road. And you'll get to a

that means the road. And you'll get to a gate and it'll be like private property.

gate and it'll be like private property. And then you're like, am I still on this

And then you're like, am I still on this uh whatever they call it, time, not time

uh whatever they call it, time, not time share, but some kind of some kind of

share, but some kind of some kind of shared thing

shared thing like a rightway. Isn't it sort of like a

like a rightway. Isn't it sort of like a rightaway?

rightaway? Yeah. I don't know. But there were a lot

Yeah. I don't know. But there were a lot of things like that where I wanted to

of things like that where I wanted to drive a mile up this road and park my

drive a mile up this road and park my car, but I was so scared of, you know, I

car, but I was so scared of, you know, I mean, this is Montana.

mean, this is Montana. I actually went to those guys when I was

I actually went to those guys when I was searching up there and just talked to

searching up there and just talked to them and said, "Hey, is it okay if I

them and said, "Hey, is it okay if I hike in the area?" And they were cool

hike in the area?" And they were cool with it. So, you know,

with it. So, you know, wait, the Devil Slide area, that that

wait, the Devil Slide area, that that group,

group, what's the group? What is the name?

what's the group? What is the name? That's what I'm trying to recall. It's a

That's what I'm trying to recall. It's a church that's there. Um,

church that's there. Um, oh Jesus.

oh Jesus. And I don't I don't recall the name of

And I don't I don't recall the name of the the organization. I'm terrible.

the the organization. I'm terrible. Oh Jesus.

Oh Jesus. I think it's Church Universal and

I think it's Church Universal and Triumphants

Triumphants Royal Teton Ranch or something to that

Royal Teton Ranch or something to that effect.

effect. So they're cool. They're cool. Like as

So they're cool. They're cool. Like as far as you hiking around.

far as you hiking around. Yeah.

Yeah. But

But yeah, as long as you go and talk to him

yeah, as long as you go and talk to him first.

first. How did you know to talk to him?

How did you know to talk to him? I looked up on the land.

I looked up on the land. Oh my gosh. Okay. All right. Wow. And so

Oh my gosh. Okay. All right. Wow. And so I mean I know Devil's Slide was a

I mean I know Devil's Slide was a popular area. I mean a lot of people

popular area. I mean a lot of people were looking there.

were looking there. So they must have been familiar with the

So they must have been familiar with the Forest Finers, right?

Forest Finers, right? I'm sure they were. Yeah.

I'm sure they were. Yeah. I just can't imagine.

I just can't imagine. That was always my tactic though is you

That was always my tactic though is you know I never

know I never affiliated myself with the search per

affiliated myself with the search per se. You know, I'd say I'm like I'd like

se. You know, I'd say I'm like I'd like to hike in the area.

to hike in the area. Hi, I'm a crazy forest fan searcher. I

Hi, I'm a crazy forest fan searcher. I believe there's gold here.

believe there's gold here. Except not. Yeah, that's Yeah, I think

Except not. Yeah, that's Yeah, I think the phrasing of permission is you have

the phrasing of permission is you have to be kind of careful about that.

to be kind of careful about that. And then we have Parade Rest Ranch where

And then we have Parade Rest Ranch where we know for stayed. And we've got those

we know for stayed. And we've got those pictures of the runway where we know

pictures of the runway where we know first and Peggy were there during a

first and Peggy were there during a certain period of time. I think it was

certain period of time. I think it was 2009.

2009. which was my guess. I mean we if you so

which was my guess. I mean we if you so I was a postmark person and when you

I was a postmark person and when you look at the postmarks and you correct

look at the postmarks and you correct them accordingly um the chapter where

them accordingly um the chapter where the trust chest the poem is and all that

the trust chest the poem is and all that kind of stuff was 2009 June 5th and so

kind of stuff was 2009 June 5th and so for me the the chest being found June

for me the the chest being found June 5th June 6th I was like whoa right I

5th June 6th I was like whoa right I didn't question it but now we have

didn't question it but now we have information from the finder saying

information from the finder saying coincidence no big deal I'm just like

coincidence no big deal I'm just like damn

damn I mean I mean I'm just like yeah really

I mean I mean I'm just like yeah really okay right shoot. Darn it. Um one out of

okay right shoot. Darn it. Um one out of 365%

365% right? That's your

right? That's your your chance of it being found on that

your chance of it being found on that date. Um

date. Um Summit Lighthouse.

Summit Lighthouse. That's the I don't know if that's the

That's the I don't know if that's the official name of the group but the

official name of the group but the Summit Lighthouse.

Summit Lighthouse. Do you want to share the screen or

Do you want to share the screen or should I look it up?

should I look it up? Um,

Um, that's not the sign on the no

that's not the sign on the no trespassing signs though. They're the

trespassing signs though. They're the devil's slide. That whole area is

devil's slide. That whole area is offensed with the no trespassing or

offensed with the no trespassing or private land signs. And it's something

private land signs. And it's something something ranch and it had to do.

something ranch and it had to do. Yeah. It's a grand or something royal

Yeah. It's a grand or something royal Teton or L.

Teton or L. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And

I'm gonna have to start a new group. Tub thumpers with Forest Ven.

thumpers with Forest Ven. Yeah, but you're right, Matt. They don't

Yeah, but you're right, Matt. They don't like to call it Devil's Slide. They they

like to call it Devil's Slide. They they did have another name for it. Um,

did have another name for it. Um, angels something or other

angels something or other ascending to the angels.

ascending to the angels. There were many things I loved about the

There were many things I loved about the valley there, but seeing it in the

valley there, but seeing it in the morning light, if you got up and you saw

morning light, if you got up and you saw Devil's Slide in the morning, it was

Devil's Slide in the morning, it was just so beautiful. Um, and that valley

just so beautiful. Um, and that valley is just an amazing place. like the color

is just an amazing place. like the color when the morning sun hits it kind of

when the morning sun hits it kind of thing.

thing. The color and just just the rise of

The color and just just the rise of those mountains. It's kind of a dramatic

those mountains. It's kind of a dramatic rise and that valley has a an amazing

rise and that valley has a an amazing history of you know going back many.

history of you know going back many. So are we all in agreement then? Um like

So are we all in agreement then? Um like so obviously so much of us uh we're so

so obviously so much of us uh we're so whether the chest is there or not we

whether the chest is there or not we don't care anymore. We are so fascinated

don't care anymore. We are so fascinated with the spot right um solving it what

with the spot right um solving it what the correct solution was all that kind

the correct solution was all that kind of stuff. if we don't have

of stuff. if we don't have the 100% verification thing, right? So,

the 100% verification thing, right? So, we're working on this. We think we have

we're working on this. We think we have the spot. Um, all we have to go on right

the spot. Um, all we have to go on right now is the stick. Um, and and

now is the stick. Um, and and potentially,

potentially, you know, a small percentage the ring,

you know, a small percentage the ring, right, that's missing that Forest

right, that's missing that Forest couldn't find. And

couldn't find. And Oh, Matt, do tell what what do you

Oh, Matt, do tell what what do you think?

think? I don't know. I don't know about that.

You can be a a sticker or a stickler. Be a stickler,

a stickler, but don't be a don't be a

but don't be a don't be a Don't be a ringer.

Don't be a ringer. Don't be a Lazarian. A San Lazarian or

Don't be a Lazarian. A San Lazarian or whatever. Oh, there. There it is. Now we

whatever. Oh, there. There it is. Now we know where it is.

know where it is. I found it. See, Emerald, there you go.

I found it. See, Emerald, there you go. You then he um

You then he um it means Jack has to somehow lose the

it means Jack has to somehow lose the ring.

ring. I just don't see that.

I just don't see that. What do you think happened to the ring?

What do you think happened to the ring? Do you think Forest just never put it?

Do you think Forest just never put it? Well, I mean, what happened to the frog

Well, I mean, what happened to the frog on the necklace, you know?

on the necklace, you know? Well, that was in the vault, right? But

Well, that was in the vault, right? But he But it was in the vault,

he But it was in the vault, which again kills me because how many

which again kills me because how many times was I in that vault?

Was it just sitting on a shelf? Like I mean, does anybody have a picture of the

mean, does anybody have a picture of the vault where you could actually look at

vault where you could actually look at it and say, "Oh, there's that damn

it and say, "Oh, there's that damn frog."

frog." That's what Cynthia said. We need to go

That's what Cynthia said. We need to go look at pictures.

look at pictures. I mean, I know Kazars did, right? But

I mean, I know Kazars did, right? But but I was whenever I would visit, I felt

but I was whenever I would visit, I felt weird saying, "Hey, can we take a

weird saying, "Hey, can we take a picture?" So I never took pictures

picture?" So I never took pictures because it felt paparazzi, right? So

because it felt paparazzi, right? So whenever I was in the vault, I I was

whenever I was in the vault, I I was like, "Ah, it feels icky to say, hey,

like, "Ah, it feels icky to say, hey, can I take a selfie of me in the vault?"

can I take a selfie of me in the vault?" Or, you know, "Can I take a picture?"

Or, you know, "Can I take a picture?" And all that kind of stuff. But if it

And all that kind of stuff. But if it was invol in the vault the whole time,

was invol in the vault the whole time, that vault is not that big. It's a

that vault is not that big. It's a closet.

closet. Yeah.

Yeah. It can only

It can only pictures of everything in that vault. If

pictures of everything in that vault. If you send my PayPal account,

have you looked at them? Actually, I have not.

Actually, I have not. All right, I'm putting the link in chat

All right, I'm putting the link in chat right now. Cynthia PayPal account.

right now. Cynthia PayPal account. He had lots of little cubbies and

He had lots of little cubbies and cabinets and drawers and it could have

cabinets and drawers and it could have been anywhere, right? Well, in the vault

been anywhere, right? Well, in the vault there was only so I mean it was just it

there was only so I mean it was just it was just a closet, a plywood closet and

was just a closet, a plywood closet and it had

it had Yeah, but he had underneath he had I

Yeah, but he had underneath he had I mean there were like um

mean there were like um skins like folded up and and blankets

skins like folded up and and blankets here and I mean there was just stuff

here and I mean there was just stuff everywhere and

everywhere and when when's the last time

when when's the last time chambers it had like an empty a little

chambers it had like an empty a little room that was closet size that had

room that was closet size that had mostly guns and then it had the main

mostly guns and then it had the main vault. main vault meaning, you know,

vault. main vault meaning, you know, eight square feet as opposed to three

eight square feet as opposed to three square feet. I mean, it's a very small

square feet. I mean, it's a very small space, right?

space, right? But but but there's lots of I just felt

But but but there's lots of I just felt like there were lots of nooks. Like

like there were lots of nooks. Like you're just looking around.

you're just looking around. It was nook heavy.

It was nook heavy. His whole I mean the whole house was

His whole I mean the whole house was nook heavy.

nook heavy. Right.

Right. Right. I mean you you around every

Right. I mean you you around every little corner there was something new

little corner there was something new and there was something this and there

and there was something this and there was something that. You had the you had

was something that. You had the you had the um archaeology thing going on where

the um archaeology thing going on where you go in there and he's got everything

you go in there and he's got everything categorized as far as the bones of

categorized as far as the bones of things and all that kind of stuff. And

things and all that kind of stuff. And then you've got the closet which is the

then you've got the closet which is the vault. Um and it's nook heavy as well as

vault. Um and it's nook heavy as well as far as stuff that's in there. And then

far as stuff that's in there. And then he's always giving you stuff, right?

he's always giving you stuff, right? He's like, he's like, and and he's like,

He's like, he's like, and and he's like, "Have you ever had like for me, you

"Have you ever had like for me, you know, Madison arm was my my potential

know, Madison arm was my my potential starting point." And he he was hilarious

starting point." And he he was hilarious where he's like, "Uh, if you have a

where he's like, "Uh, if you have a broken arm, this is what you do. Here's

broken arm, this is what you do. Here's your arm." You know, he gave me one an

your arm." You know, he gave me one an arm for the um what was it? The Catholic

arm for the um what was it? The Catholic thing where if you had an ailment in

thing where if you had an ailment in your arm, you put a little arm in the

your arm, you put a little arm in the thing and it was silver and you know,

thing and it was silver and you know, and so I have these little little

and so I have these little little trinkets that he's like handing me,

trinkets that he's like handing me, right? because he's he's always handing

right? because he's he's always handing you stuff. He's like, "Here, take this."

you stuff. He's like, "Here, take this." And I remember one time, I think it was

And I remember one time, I think it was the visit with Dale where I left and

the visit with Dale where I left and he's like, "Which books don't you have,

he's like, "Which books don't you have, right?" And he's just loading me up with

right?" And he's just loading me up with all these books. And I'm just like I'm

all these books. And I'm just like I'm like, "No, I've got that one." He's

like, "No, I've got that one." He's like, "Are you sure? You should probably

like, "Are you sure? You should probably take another." And I'm just like, "No,

take another." And I'm just like, "No, it's okay. It's really right." And he

it's okay. It's really right." And he was very keen on doing that with his

was very keen on doing that with his stuff. And not once did I think, is

stuff. And not once did I think, is there a frog in there?

I mean, none of us saw a frog in there, right?

right? If it was in there, where would it be?

If it was in there, where would it be? I was never in the vault, so I cannot

I was never in the vault, so I cannot say.

say. I have to look at my pictures. I'll try

I have to look at my pictures. I'll try to do it tomorrow.

to do it tomorrow. Cynthia, when's the last time you took

Cynthia, when's the last time you took pictures of the vault and all that kind

pictures of the vault and all that kind of stuff?

of stuff? Um,

not not in the last two years. I I'm I'm not sure. My photos would be dated

not sure. My photos would be dated though, so if I pull them up, I can

though, so if I pull them up, I can tell.

tell. Well, we I mean, we know it was I mean,

Well, we I mean, we know it was I mean, he says it was in the

he says it was in the Do I have it correct? It was in the

Do I have it correct? It was in the vault. The frog was in the vault.

vault. The frog was in the vault. So, Finn hid the chest in 20110. So, I

So, Finn hid the chest in 20110. So, I mean, obviously

mean, obviously the frog had to be there somewhere. So,

the frog had to be there somewhere. So, yeah, I'm going to look for all my

yeah, I'm going to look for all my pictures because I don't remember seeing

pictures because I don't remember seeing it.

it. Okay. All right.

Okay. All right. I was just looking for Oh, go ahead. No,

I was just looking for Oh, go ahead. No, I was just going to say I was always so

I was just going to say I was always so much more impressed with um Sitting

much more impressed with um Sitting Bull's Peace Pipe

Bull's Peace Pipe and some of some of the other things in

and some of some of the other things in there.

there. Um

Um I don't know. I guess I never I never

I don't know. I guess I never I never knew to look for the frog, so I never

knew to look for the frog, so I never did.

did. Could you hang there? You know, he had a

Could you hang there? You know, he had a lot of stuff hanging on like a a nail

lot of stuff hanging on like a a nail head or something, too. So,

head or something, too. So, it was such like a a a

it was such like a a a garage tool storage kind of setup where

garage tool storage kind of setup where it was just pegboard and it just, you

it was just pegboard and it just, you know, and he would hand you things like

know, and he would hand you things like one of the things he handed me was the

one of the things he handed me was the the pirate coin, right? The, you know,

the pirate coin, right? The, you know, and I'm just like, this is a Miradi. I'm

and I'm just like, this is a Miradi. I'm like, thanks, right?

like, thanks, right? But you have to imagine at 90 or close

But you have to imagine at 90 or close to that, you have this collection and

to that, you have this collection and you have these friends you've made. You

you have these friends you've made. You start wanting people to have little

start wanting people to have little pieces of all that. Now granted, I would

pieces of all that. Now granted, I would have loved it if he had handed me the

have loved it if he had handed me the falcon from a tomb, but you know, right?

falcon from a tomb, but you know, right? by the way, here's a pal, you know, but

by the way, here's a pal, you know, but I mean, um, I think there were tons of

I mean, um, I think there were tons of people who got to meet with him and that

people who got to meet with him and that was something he really enjoyed doing.

was something he really enjoyed doing. If he enjoyed the meeting with you, he

If he enjoyed the meeting with you, he would hand you little trinkets from his

would hand you little trinkets from his vault or from various things like that

vault or from various things like that because at that point, what do you do

because at that point, what do you do with all those things? I mean, you guys

with all those things? I mean, you guys can see how much crap

can see how much crap I've got going on behind me. What

I've got going on behind me. What happens with all that when I when I

happens with all that when I when I reach 90, right?

reach 90, right? Yep, that's fair. I I I'd love to see uh

Yep, that's fair. I I I'd love to see uh if someone could track that down in a

if someone could track that down in a photo, that would be hilarious to me.

photo, that would be hilarious to me. All right, Cynthia, go ahead. Yeah, let

All right, Cynthia, go ahead. Yeah, let us know if you are able to see anything.

us know if you are able to see anything. I will check it out tomorrow.

I will check it out tomorrow. And I'll go back to the chat real quick.

And I'll go back to the chat real quick. I know I saw some highlights here. Um

I know I saw some highlights here. Um let me scroll back up. My goodness, the

let me scroll back up. My goodness, the chat is buzzing, baby. Uh, Jack Stoof YT

chat is buzzing, baby. Uh, Jack Stoof YT Vid NM interview 36 Forest. The person

Vid NM interview 36 Forest. The person who finds the treasure chest and puts it

who finds the treasure chest and puts it on their lap and raises the lid for the

on their lap and raises the lid for the first time. What will they see? That was

first time. What will they see? That was one of the questions I had in the like

one of the questions I had in the like 30 questions that I had to narrow down

30 questions that I had to narrow down to five and it didn't make the cut.

to five and it didn't make the cut. because we know there's the two top

because we know there's the two top treasures, but we also know that KPRO is

treasures, but we also know that KPRO is like um

like um accumulating a lot of emails from other

accumulating a lot of emails from other people.

people. Um that the problem like so I

Um that the problem like so I guess

guess I have I'm like I love that and at the

I have I'm like I love that and at the same time I know there's some people who

same time I know there's some people who are gonna there's some people some of

are gonna there's some people some of you who are going to falsify emails.

you who are going to falsify emails. Yeah, you're gonna have to take that

Yeah, you're gonna have to take that with a grain of salt. But it's nice to

with a grain of salt. But it's nice to have them all collected in one place.

have them all collected in one place. Yeah,

Yeah, I know. Because they're scattered to the

I know. Because they're scattered to the wind at this point. Um, DD, watch that

wind at this point. Um, DD, watch that New Mexico interview video on Jack

New Mexico interview video on Jack Steu's YouTube channel. Contrast that

Steu's YouTube channel. Contrast that forest describes with the

forest describes with the finder.

finder. I don't know. Sorry, DD. I don't know

I don't know. Sorry, DD. I don't know what that means. I'm scrolling up. Wow,

what that means. I'm scrolling up. Wow, the chat's buzzing. Very important, says

the chat's buzzing. Very important, says Amy Seeks. Are the fences at the place

Amy Seeks. Are the fences at the place six feet or 12 feet? And is there razor

six feet or 12 feet? And is there razor wire on bottom at all? That tells a ton

wire on bottom at all? That tells a ton about what's going on. Lol.

about what's going on. Lol. Very important. I have no idea what you

Very important. I have no idea what you just said.

just said. Okay. All right. All right. Scrolling.

Okay. All right. All right. Scrolling. Scrolling. Scrolling. Amy seeks. Alan K.

Scrolling. Scrolling. Amy seeks. Alan K. Hey, Alan. Um, scrapbook 14. And the

Hey, Alan. Um, scrapbook 14. And the golden frog is pinned to the wall behind

golden frog is pinned to the wall behind Donna Karen.

Donna Karen. Oh, wow. There you go.

Oh, wow. There you go. Okay, I'll pull that up in just a

Okay, I'll pull that up in just a second.

second. Donna Karen, where's that?

Donna Karen, where's that? Nelica. Is that Nella? Nelica. Uh Amy

Nelica. Is that Nella? Nelica. Uh Amy Sees. The little arm was called Magros.

Sees. The little arm was called Magros. Nelica. Thank you. If that's Nella

Nelica. Thank you. If that's Nella Nelica, hi Nelica. She helped me win

Nelica, hi Nelica. She helped me win some money in Vegas.

some money in Vegas. It was awesome. M

It was awesome. M yeah, she's she Yeah, it's really it was

yeah, she's she Yeah, it's really it was really sweet meeting her. Um

really sweet meeting her. Um Okay. All right. Should we should we

Okay. All right. Should we should we pull that up real quick? The um

pull that up real quick? The um Yes.

Yes. Okay.

Okay. But this is um but this is pre prehide,

But this is um but this is pre prehide, right? Pre

right? Pre I believe so because some people saw the

I believe so because some people saw the chest in that picture, right?

chest in that picture, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um I don't know if it's in

Yeah. Yeah. Um I don't know if it's in this one. Oh

this one. Oh yeah. I just went through every photo I

yeah. I just went through every photo I could find and I just don't don't see it

could find and I just don't don't see it anywhere like posthide, you know, after

anywhere like posthide, you know, after it was

it was But prehide is kind of interesting, too.

But prehide is kind of interesting, too. You know what I mean?

You know what I mean? Let's see if I can pull this up.

That's the big frog if I'm seeing this correctly.

correctly. Are you looking at it right now? Do you

Are you looking at it right now? Do you want to do screen share?

want to do screen share? No.

No. Okay.

Okay. You got to say that.

You got to say that. Where? So, I've got the picture pulled

Where? So, I've got the picture pulled up. Where am I looking on the wall for

up. Where am I looking on the wall for the frog?

the frog? Um, see?

Um, see? Oh,

Oh, to the right of Donna.

to the right of Donna. Yeah,

Yeah, it's so tiny, but it's not on a

it's so tiny, but it's not on a necklace.

necklace. But that's the big frog.

But that's the big frog. Can you Can you share share it, Amy?

Can you Can you share share it, Amy? Yeah. Yeah. Hold on one second.

Yeah. Yeah. Hold on one second. No, I'm just I'm going to do what I did

No, I'm just I'm going to do what I did before. I'm like, that's amazing. Cool.

before. I'm like, that's amazing. Cool. I wish you guys could see this. So,

I wish you guys could see this. So, art with Amy.

art with Amy. Amy describes.

Amy describes. So, yeah. Let me just describe to you

So, yeah. Let me just describe to you what I'm seeing. It's just absolutely

what I'm seeing. It's just absolutely amazing. All right. So, I'm guessing

amazing. All right. So, I'm guessing it's right here. Is that correct?

it's right here. Is that correct? Yeah. But that's the big one.

Yeah. But that's the big one. It's not on a necklace.

There you go. There's the big frog. And we know that was in the chest, but

And we know that was in the chest, but it was the small one that was on the

it was the small one that was on the necklace that was apparently still in

necklace that was apparently still in the vault.

the vault. That's so crazy. What the heck is this

That's so crazy. What the heck is this thing?

thing? Yeah. If you go to there's a there's a

Yeah. If you go to there's a there's a post called Golden Frogs

post called Golden Frogs and it has a photograph of both and I

and it has a photograph of both and I think we're seeing the big frog in that

think we're seeing the big frog in that photograph and then the other one is is

photograph and then the other one is is on the necklace and it's got turquoise I

on the necklace and it's got turquoise I think and gold and it's about a fifth or

think and gold and it's about a fifth or a sixth the size. I I think that's the

a sixth the size. I I think that's the one that was left behind.

one that was left behind. All right, let's see what we got for

All right, let's see what we got for images.

There we go. Right there. That one right there.

So, this is the one on the wall. Then this is the one that was missing. So

this is the one that was missing. So that was one of my questions too that

that was one of my questions too that didn't make the five question cut which

didn't make the five question cut which which was when you realized certain

which was when you realized certain things were missing from the chest, how

things were missing from the chest, how did that conversation go with forest?

did that conversation go with forest? Like how do you present that? Do you say

Like how do you present that? Do you say huh? By the way,

huh? By the way, where's my ring?

Just wondering, uh, I didn't see this in the chest. Do you have it? And then

the chest. Do you have it? And then Forest says, oh, let me check my vault.

Forest says, oh, let me check my vault. There it is.

There it is. It must have been in a different

It must have been in a different location after he hit it because I can't

location after he hit it because I can't imagine him going 10 years without him,

imagine him going 10 years without him, you know, without him noticing it.

you know, without him noticing it. They're hanging on a peg.

They're hanging on a peg. But what about the scissors? He didn't I

But what about the scissors? He didn't I mean, he took all the contents out of

mean, he took all the contents out of the chest, brought them in separately,

the chest, brought them in separately, put them back in the chest, and somehow

put them back in the chest, and somehow didn't notice the scissors on top.

didn't notice the scissors on top. The ring is probably still in the trunk

The ring is probably still in the trunk of his car.

My gosh. That was another question that didn't

That was another question that didn't make the five question cut, which was on

make the five question cut, which was on the drive to Santa Fe, where did you put

the drive to Santa Fe, where did you put the chest? Was it in the trunk? Was it

the chest? Was it in the trunk? Was it like sitting beside you?

like sitting beside you? Someone Someone should check the trunk

Someone Someone should check the trunk of his car.

of his car. Somebody asked him that so he doesn't

Somebody asked him that so he doesn't think I'm hounding him because I told

think I'm hounding him because I told him I was like, you know, after these

him I was like, you know, after these questions, just giving you a break. you

questions, just giving you a break. you know, obviously honeymoon period's over.

know, obviously honeymoon period's over. [Laughter]

[Laughter] Surprised that he's still answering

Surprised that he's still answering these questions at all. Um, but I guess

these questions at all. Um, but I guess since he's not doing one of these

since he's not doing one of these network interview things, um, no live

network interview things, um, no live interviews, which I honestly I am

interviews, which I honestly I am surprised that he's not doing the live

surprised that he's not doing the live interviews. I mean,

interviews. I mean, you know, even if you're not going to

you know, even if you're not going to make the money, I don't know. I don't

make the money, I don't know. I don't know. What do you guys think? Why?

know. What do you guys think? Why? What's the motivation to not do them at

What's the motivation to not do them at all? I guess zero ego, right? Like

all? I guess zero ego, right? Like there's no ego involved. It's like, I

there's no ego involved. It's like, I just want to move on. I'm not going to

just want to move on. I'm not going to make extra money. I don't want the

make extra money. I don't want the attention.

attention. His attorney told him not to. It could

His attorney told him not to. It could be legal, don't you think?

be legal, don't you think? But then he But then he would do it

But then he But then he would do it later. And in the email to me,

later. And in the email to me, true.

true. It was more like he just wasn't

It was more like he just wasn't interested and he just wanted to get

interested and he just wanted to get back to normal life.

back to normal life. That suggests like zero ego.

That suggests like zero ego. Yeah.

Yeah. bring you bring in more interest and

bring you bring in more interest and more people and 7% of that interest is

more people and 7% of that interest is is the negative is the loud scary

is the negative is the loud scary negative stuff

negative stuff 7 to 12%

7 to 12% 7 to 12

7 to 12 12

12 oh

oh so but then why answer all the emails

so but then why answer all the emails too is it just out of feeling obligated

too is it just out of feeling obligated for all the people who who spent five

for all the people who who spent five years or more of their lives

years or more of their lives I asked him about that

I asked him about that um his response

um his response was that it doesn't feel like work. He's

was that it doesn't feel like work. He's enjoying his communication with the

enjoying his communication with the community

and a majority of it has been positive. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I

Yeah. I think so. I hope so.

think so. I hope so. That is the difficult part is is

That is the difficult part is is discerning the difference. So when the

discerning the difference. So when the negative is so loud, it so feels like

negative is so loud, it so feels like it's the majority.

it's the majority. um even when it's not the negative that

um even when it's not the negative that just gets so loud you're like oh my god

just gets so loud you're like oh my god you know the suings and all this other

you know the suings and all this other kind of stuff. Um, so if

kind of stuff. Um, so if if he's not so if the

if he's not so if the sorry so many questions if he doesn't

sorry so many questions if he doesn't want to divulge the location basically

want to divulge the location basically at this point it's up to him right um

at this point it's up to him right um after all the legalities are are passed

after all the legalities are are passed and he gets ready to figure out how the

and he gets ready to figure out how the chest is going to be sold off so that he

chest is going to be sold off so that he can recoup some of the costs

Do you think there's any chance that more information will come out about the

more information will come out about the solve? Like I mean he seems so eager

solve? Like I mean he seems so eager right now to help out to a point, right?

I I don't know how to answer that with with any sort of intelligence. I just I

with any sort of intelligence. I just I don't know what to say.

don't know what to say. It's a psychological guess, right?

It's a psychological guess, right? Yeah. Well, it's been announced that

Yeah. Well, it's been announced that he's doing the six questions on Jenny

he's doing the six questions on Jenny Kyle's site, right?

Kyle's site, right? Yes.

Yes. So, we know we know. And I don't know if

So, we know we know. And I don't know if she sent questions or if he's just

she sent questions or if he's just picking six from the ones he's been

picking six from the ones he's been receiving, but at least we know that's

receiving, but at least we know that's coming. We And maybe that's where he's

coming. We And maybe that's where he's going to reveal the word that is key. I

going to reveal the word that is key. I don't know. But at least we're I mean,

don't know. But at least we're I mean, at least we're going to get six more

at least we're going to get six more answers

answers whenever that happens. I don't know what

whenever that happens. I don't know what the time frame is. So, the word that is

the time frame is. So, the word that is key, when do we know that?

key, when do we know that? I don't know. Maybe that's going to be

I don't know. Maybe that's going to be part of Jenny's. I don't know.

part of Jenny's. I don't know. Okay. All right. That was uh going to be

Okay. All right. That was uh going to be one of the questions again that didn't

one of the questions again that didn't make the cut was um the word, you know,

make the cut was um the word, you know, did you how how long after you

did you how how long after you discovered the word that was key and the

discovered the word that was key and the others that were also important did you

others that were also important did you find your area? But instead instead I

find your area? But instead instead I asked, you know, how long after having

asked, you know, how long after having TTOC did you find your area? I'm still a

TTOC did you find your area? I'm still a little shocked. I'm going to share that

little shocked. I'm going to share that again because I'm I'm still blown away

again because I'm I'm still blown away by that. Um,

by that. Um, see here,

see here, actually, let me stop share. Let me go

actually, let me stop share. Let me go take it because how could it be that

take it because how could it be that fast that he knew the area? That just

fast that he knew the area? That just blows my mind.

blows my mind. Um, let's see. because we didn't have

Um, let's see. because we didn't have all our confirmation bias.

all our confirmation bias. But you know, Forest was so confident

But you know, Forest was so confident would take a 100 to a thousand years and

would take a 100 to a thousand years and and he hoped somebody who did the work

and he hoped somebody who did the work was the one who found it.

was the one who found it. He was relying on human nature of

He was relying on human nature of apopenia to direct people away from it.

apopenia to direct people away from it. Like it's sort of like these null

Like it's sort of like these null ciphers in the great US treasure hunt.

ciphers in the great US treasure hunt. Like if you have enough noise, it's hard

Like if you have enough noise, it's hard to detect what's important. And so if

to detect what's important. And so if you throw just keep throwing noise at

you throw just keep throwing noise at it, it's just going to confuse people

it, it's just going to confuse people more and more and each person is going

more and more and each person is going to pick up on a different context or a

to pick up on a different context or a different rabbit hole and and it just

different rabbit hole and and it just prevents you from seeing the obvious.

prevents you from seeing the obvious. And I think that's uh what he was

And I think that's uh what he was counting on.

counting on. But that's a big gamble. You spend 15

But that's a big gamble. You spend 15 years crafting something,

years crafting something, 15 years crafting. I mean, he says it

15 years crafting. I mean, he says it took that long.

took that long. That wouldn't have taken that long. To

That wouldn't have taken that long. To do something like that would have taken

do something like that would have taken five years at most. doing it in a way

five years at most. doing it in a way that allows the rabbit hole potential.

that allows the rabbit hole potential. You know, it's basically I think writing

You know, it's basically I think writing it in a way that's generic enough where

it in a way that's generic enough where or just like has enough zingy phrases

or just like has enough zingy phrases like home of brown, you know, I mean

like home of brown, you know, I mean people people think different things and

people people think different things and it just it just turns into this this

it just it just turns into this this labyrinth very quickly for many people.

labyrinth very quickly for many people. Like I don't know just just my two

Like I don't know just just my two cents. But would that lead to a

cents. But would that lead to a confidence of knowing it was going to

confidence of knowing it was going to take a hundred to a thousand years to

take a hundred to a thousand years to solve?

solve? Apparently. So

Apparently. So I know, right? It's based on the

I know, right? It's based on the evidence. Yes. Right.

evidence. Yes. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what blows I You know, it just in

That's what blows I You know, it just in a matter of weeks, less than two months,

a matter of weeks, less than two months, I have the germ of the idea and went out

I have the germ of the idea and went out there. That sounds like every searcher

there. That sounds like every searcher I've ever talked to.

I've ever talked to. Yep.

Yep. It sure does. Except this guy has the

It sure does. Except this guy has the chest.

chest. The inarguable

The inarguable uh conclusion here is that he has the

uh conclusion here is that he has the chest.

chest. And the funny thing is like he's

And the funny thing is like he's probably looking at this and thinking

probably looking at this and thinking good grief like all these people have

good grief like all these people have been looking at this thing for a decade

been looking at this thing for a decade and couldn't find this. Like it was the

and couldn't find this. Like it was the first person first spot I really thought

first person first spot I really thought it was. And I went out there and it took

it was. And I went out there and it took me a while to find the exact location.

me a while to find the exact location. But it's not that hard you guys. Come

But it's not that hard you guys. Come on. You know. Well, see that's

on. You know. Well, see that's perspective.

perspective. That's the other thing. So, Forest says

That's the other thing. So, Forest says you go to an exact spot, but he didn't.

you go to an exact spot, but he didn't. So, what do we do with that discrepancy?

So, what do we do with that discrepancy? I think it's cuz the blaze was damaged.

I think it's cuz the blaze was damaged. Oh my god. Vegetable. What is the blaze,

Oh my god. Vegetable. What is the blaze, Jack? What is the blaze? Is it a rock?

Jack? What is the blaze? Is it a rock? Is it vegetable mineral?

Is it vegetable mineral? What are the vegetable mineral or I

What are the vegetable mineral or I forget what the third one is.

I think it's something readily identifiable for any one of us in the

identifiable for any one of us in the chat tonight to be able to say, "Oh, I

chat tonight to be able to say, "Oh, I know where that's at."

know where that's at." Jack is Jack the only person who figured

Jack is Jack the only person who figured out what Home of Brown is.

out what Home of Brown is. Well, that's confusing because we do

Well, that's confusing because we do know the Forest said people figured out

know the Forest said people figured out the first two clues, didn't know the

the first two clues, didn't know the significance of it, that kind of stuff,

significance of it, that kind of stuff, right?

right? So, were they just doing a basic

So, were they just doing a basic geographical match with the poem?

geographical match with the poem? Well, there was a quote by a searcher

Well, there was a quote by a searcher that actually published their email from

that actually published their email from Forest that no one ever said who the

Forest that no one ever said who the what the Homer Brown was. No one ever

what the Homer Brown was. No one ever got it until the finder. It was on

got it until the finder. It was on Reddit. I think KPRO

Reddit. I think KPRO um addressed this on her Thor thread. I

um addressed this on her Thor thread. I mean, and the guy posted the email from

mean, and the guy posted the email from Fen.

Fen. That would be an interesting question to

That would be an interesting question to Jack. It is it is it true that you're

Jack. It is it is it true that you're the only one who got the home of Brown?

the only one who got the home of Brown? He he might say, "Well, actually, I

He he might say, "Well, actually, I occasionally heard people

occasionally heard people talk about it or whatever, but maybe

talk about it or whatever, but maybe they never put it together." Or he might

they never put it together." Or he might say, "Yeah, you're right. I'd never

say, "Yeah, you're right. I'd never heard anyone talk about it and I know

heard anyone talk about it and I know what it is."

what it is." Yeah, I'd have to be have to be careful

Yeah, I'd have to be have to be careful how we phrase that question. You know, I

how we phrase that question. You know, I mean, if we said, "Has anybody else got

mean, if we said, "Has anybody else got it correct?" Well, I mean, he could say,

it correct?" Well, I mean, he could say, "Well, I don't know." But have you heard

"Well, I don't know." But have you heard anyone ever mentioning it before? If he

anyone ever mentioning it before? If he said no to that, like I think that'd be

said no to that, like I think that'd be that'd be pretty telling. I agree.

that'd be pretty telling. I agree. That would rule out everything we've

That would rule out everything we've ever heard.

We're going to ask that. I can't ask anymore. I've already asked

I can't ask anymore. I've already asked five questions.

five questions. You used up your You used up your three

You used up your You used up your three wishes. On the third one,

wishes. On the third one, the genie in the bottle

the genie in the bottle wishes.

wishes. That's right.

That's right. Everybody knows that.

Everybody knows that. We all know you're in the background

We all know you're in the background right now creating a new email address

right now creating a new email address so you can send it fresh. Yeah,

I know there. And I I'm assuming that some people probably asked these

some people probably asked these questions already and and it's

questions already and and it's potentially, you know, it's like, will

potentially, you know, it's like, will we see them? Um, I think there was a

we see them? Um, I think there was a thread on Thor, Hint of Bridges. Is that

thread on Thor, Hint of Bridges. Is that right? Where people were posting that

right? Where people were posting that kind of stuff. Has anyone looked at

kind of stuff. Has anyone looked at that?

that? Not I haven't. No. I I mean, I peruse

Not I haven't. No. I I mean, I peruse every now and then, but I haven't seen

every now and then, but I haven't seen anything that was new or that I could

anything that was new or that I could glean anything from.

glean anything from. I know, right? I do want to do a quick

I know, right? I do want to do a quick share.

share. Um, I actually I don't want to do a

Um, I actually I don't want to do a quick share, but I'm going to. um 3D

quick share, but I'm going to. um 3D bronze, as you know who makes those

bronze, as you know who makes those awesome bronze chests, the little mini

awesome bronze chests, the little mini bronze chests. He has a little mini side

bronze chests. He has a little mini side uh treasure hunt going on. And if you go

uh treasure hunt going on. And if you go to 3dBR.com

tell me where um you'll get this uh information here and then you answer

information here and then you answer with a password into this Vimeo and

with a password into this Vimeo and you'll know if you're right or not. And

you'll know if you're right or not. And this is the treasure. There you go.

So, I really didn't want to share this, but I am because I wanted to work on it

but I am because I wanted to work on it myself,

myself, but I'm going to be less selfish. So,

but I'm going to be less selfish. So, there you go. 3D Bronze uh has a little

there you go. 3D Bronze uh has a little mini treasure hunt going on. If you, you

mini treasure hunt going on. If you, you know, if you're banging your head

know, if you're banging your head against the wall for the Great US

against the wall for the Great US Treasure Hunt, which some of us are,

that thing's driving me nuts, right?

right? Pretty easy once you get the beats per

Pretty easy once you get the beats per minute.

minute. [Laughter]

[Laughter] me.

me. You're just evil.

You're just evil. No, no. I I I was not a fan of the clue.

No, no. I I I was not a fan of the clue. Unless there's something hiding in there

Unless there's something hiding in there that I don't see.

that I don't see. Yeah. You know, I mean, the thing about

Yeah. You know, I mean, the thing about it is like I I spent too much time on

it is like I I spent too much time on this thing. You know, when it first came

this thing. You know, when it first came out, I thought I was like, you know

out, I thought I was like, you know what? I I can solve this, you know, and

what? I I can solve this, you know, and this is just this is just ciphers,

this is just this is just ciphers, right? They have how hard can it be? So,

right? They have how hard can it be? So, next thing I know, it's like, well, I

next thing I know, it's like, well, I think I think there's probably a

think I think there's probably a PlayFare cipher involved, which of

PlayFare cipher involved, which of course we now know is absurd. And so,

course we now know is absurd. And so, well, I'll write a I'll write a program

well, I'll write a I'll write a program to solve this, right? And so, I

to solve this, right? And so, I whip it out and fire it up. And 300

whip it out and fire it up. And 300 billion combinations later, it it, you

billion combinations later, it it, you know, couldn't fired it up.

know, couldn't fired it up. Yeah. And it didn't work. So, it's like,

Yeah. And it didn't work. So, it's like, what what what the hell am I doing wrong

what what what the hell am I doing wrong here? And then then he comes out and

here? And then then he comes out and says, "A Playfair cipher." He's like,

says, "A Playfair cipher." He's like, "Of course there's not a Playfair

"Of course there's not a Playfair cipher." Come on. You could have told me

cipher." Come on. You could have told me that a week ago, but you know, every

that a week ago, but you know, every step of the way it's like, "Oh, I got an

step of the way it's like, "Oh, I got an idea. I could probably solve this." And

idea. I could probably solve this." And then he comes along and says, "No,

then he comes along and says, "No, that's absurd. What are you thinking?"

that's absurd. What are you thinking?" You know, it's been rough.

You know, it's been rough. And what did David say about your your

And what did David say about your your uh your um computer program?

uh your um computer program? I don't I didn't tell him. I think he'd

I don't I didn't tell him. I think he'd just be uh he'd know. He'd just laugh at

just be uh he'd know. He'd just laugh at me. So, you know,

me. So, you know, he's so sure that there is no playfair

he's so sure that there is no playfair cipher. It's not that kind all that kind

cipher. It's not that kind all that kind of stuff. I'm like, "Oh my god, you're

of stuff. I'm like, "Oh my god, you're killing me." But at the same time, you

killing me." But at the same time, you just saved like 80% of us a lot of a lot

just saved like 80% of us a lot of a lot of time where we would have kept working

of time where we would have kept working on it

on it with less appers.

with less appers. You know, put me out of my misery there

You know, put me out of my misery there because I could have gone down that

because I could have gone down that rabbit hole for weeks easily. Yeah.

rabbit hole for weeks easily. Yeah. So, do you guys think like so obviously

So, do you guys think like so obviously there we you know we're crowdsourcing as

there we you know we're crowdsourcing as much as we can all the answers from Jack

much as we can all the answers from Jack um and there will inevitably be emails

um and there will inevitably be emails that we'll never see. You know, people

that we'll never see. You know, people who maybe aren't really a big part of

who maybe aren't really a big part of the YouTube community or Facebook

the YouTube community or Facebook community who have emailed him and

community who have emailed him and gotten an answer. But the big answer Oh,

gotten an answer. But the big answer Oh, don't yawn. Oh, shoot. What time is it?

don't yawn. Oh, shoot. What time is it? Why do my shows always go so long?

Why do my shows always go so long? Just too interesting. Yeah,

Just too interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating. Um like like so

it's fascinating. Um like like so basically we have questions that

basically we have questions that they may never be answered. I guess

they may never be answered. I guess that's but we didn't think we were even

that's but we didn't think we were even going to know about Jack and now we know

going to know about Jack and now we know about Jack. I guess I still have this

about Jack. I guess I still have this hope that somehow we're going to know

hope that somehow we're going to know the spot. But you're

the spot. But you're I wouldn't be surprised if this is

I wouldn't be surprised if this is solved by Christmas. like, you know,

solved by Christmas. like, you know, information is still trickling out. He's

information is still trickling out. He's still answering questions.

still answering questions. Something's going to sneak out that, you

Something's going to sneak out that, you know, it's just going to be enough to

know, it's just going to be enough to put two and two together. It's just a

put two and two together. It's just a matter of time, I think.

matter of time, I think. But then, how do you verify it once you

But then, how do you verify it once you go there with I mean, besides the stick.

go there with I mean, besides the stick. Yeah, good question.

Yeah, good question. How do you verify? That's my big

How do you verify? That's my big question for Jack.

question for Jack. Is there any way

Is there any way from here forward?

from here forward? I asked him that. Yeah. I mean, his

I asked him that. Yeah. I mean, his response was, "Oh, you'll know it when

response was, "Oh, you'll know it when you get there."

you get there." Jack.

Jack. Hey, Amy.

Hey, Amy. Yeah.

Yeah. I just sent you another email, so you

I just sent you another email, so you can share screen.

can share screen. Oh, okay.

Oh, okay. Um, and this has um another question.

Um, and this has um another question. Some of this has been covered, I think,

Some of this has been covered, I think, but maybe,

but maybe, you know, not every nuance or whatever.

you know, not every nuance or whatever. But I I was I I had a million questions,

But I I was I I had a million questions, so I had to choose. So for for my

so I had to choose. So for for my questions, I just kind of talked about

questions, I just kind of talked about the the the fifth and the sixth, the

the the the fifth and the sixth, the timeline there, trying to figure out

timeline there, trying to figure out what was going on.

what was going on. How's that? Can you see it?

How's that? Can you see it? Yeah. Did you send Forest a photograph

Yeah. Did you send Forest a photograph Friday night? The twig photo. Did he not

Friday night? The twig photo. Did he not get back to you that night? And this is

get back to you that night? And this is amazing. I wasn't in a rush. This is

amazing. I wasn't in a rush. This is Saturday morning. I think I slept in,

Saturday morning. I think I slept in, spent some time enjoying the location

spent some time enjoying the location one last time, carefully and

one last time, carefully and methodically retrieved it and called him

methodically retrieved it and called him non not long after I I can't read it,

non not long after I I can't read it, but I think it says had it.

but I think it says had it. Yep.

Yep. But the Outside magazine article

But the Outside magazine article um makes it sound like the retrieval and

um makes it sound like the retrieval and the

the um delivery to Forest all happened on

um delivery to Forest all happened on Saturday, but it didn't. Only the

Saturday, but it didn't. Only the retrieval did. So um

retrieval did. So um he somehow slept in. I told him he's he

he somehow slept in. I told him he's he should be a surgeon with that kind of

should be a surgeon with that kind of calm position.

calm position. He wasn't in a rush. He went to the

He wasn't in a rush. He went to the spot. Maybe he had lunch there. Just

spot. Maybe he had lunch there. Just kind of whatever,

kind of whatever, you know. So now he's taking off,

you know. So now he's taking off, driving south that Saturday,

driving south that Saturday, you know, taking off at 2 or 3, I don't

you know, taking off at 2 or 3, I don't know. And at some point he calls Forest

know. And at some point he calls Forest and Forest sits down and writes the

and Forest sits down and writes the thing and then 8:00 PM

thing and then 8:00 PM publishes it. But there's that one

publishes it. But there's that one sentence in the Outside magazine article

sentence in the Outside magazine article that makes it sound like it's all in one

that makes it sound like it's all in one day and that really threw me and that

day and that really threw me and that caused a lot of people to come up with

caused a lot of people to come up with timelines.

timelines. you know, you can't you can't leave from

you know, you can't you can't leave from this spot in Wyoming and get to Santa Fe

this spot in Wyoming and get to Santa Fe at this and but

at this and but I I think he didn't I think he didn't

I I think he didn't I think he didn't meet with him until Sunday.

meet with him until Sunday. That seems like a reasonable conclusion.

That seems like a reasonable conclusion. I I I agree. I think I think Maddie

I I I agree. I think I think Maddie should write back and ask him uh how

should write back and ask him uh how long it took for him to drive from where

long it took for him to drive from where he was sleeping to where he

he was sleeping to where he touched the chest.

touched the chest. I mean, was he camping there? I don't

I mean, was he camping there? I don't think so. It sounds like he was staying

think so. It sounds like he was staying at a hotel room. How far away was it?

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah,

Yeah, this blew my mind. This melted my brain.

this blew my mind. This melted my brain. He slept in.

He slept in. I think I slept in.

I know. You know, Jack's a strange dude. I'm

You know, Jack's a strange dude. I'm just going to say it. Like I can't

just going to say it. Like I can't I can't imagine sleeping in. And I

I can't imagine sleeping in. And I That's That's coming from a guy who

That's That's coming from a guy who pretty much always sleeps in. So yeah,

pretty much always sleeps in. So yeah, that's crazy.

that's crazy. I wasn't in a rush.

I wasn't in a rush. I think I slept in.

I think I slept in. spent some time enjoying the location

spent some time enjoying the location one last time

one last time carefully and methodically retrieved it

carefully and methodically retrieved it and called him not long after I had it

and called him not long after I had it in the car.

Why was the retrieval careful and methodical? I mean,

methodical? I mean, right?

right? Like what is the what I mean? You you

Like what is the what I mean? You you stick it in your backpack and you walk

stick it in your backpack and you walk off. like what what is the what's the

off. like what what is the what's the issue here

issue here in the IKEA bag?

in the IKEA bag? Maybe he maybe he sort of chronicled um

Maybe he maybe he sort of chronicled um each uh clue.

each uh clue. Maybe he took more pictures. Maybe he

Maybe he took more pictures. Maybe he videotaped that,

videotaped that, you know.

you know. Yeah.

Yeah. Hey, here's me.

Hey, here's me. What? What?

I mean, I think I slept in. I don't remember, but I think I might have

remember, but I think I might have slept. I'm like, "Oh, Jack, you're

slept. I'm like, "Oh, Jack, you're killing me. Jack, I can't really kill

killing me. Jack, I can't really kill me."

me." I think I slept in. It wasn't Wasn't a

I think I slept in. It wasn't Wasn't a very exciting day, you know.

very exciting day, you know. Thanks for sharing that. That I mean,

Thanks for sharing that. That I mean, that one is the one that melted my

that one is the one that melted my brain. I just found this, you know, this

brain. I just found this, you know, this 10y year million dollar hundred

10y year million dollar hundred thousands of searchers looking for this

thousands of searchers looking for this hunt. I think I might have slept in.

hunt. I think I might have slept in. Jack, you're killing me.

Jack, you're killing me. Well, you know, he um he might be he

Well, you know, he um he might be he might be a kind of quirky,

might be a kind of quirky, intelligent guy. I mean, he's he went to

intelligent guy. I mean, he's he went to Georgetown. They usually accept people

Georgetown. They usually accept people who get 14 to600 on their SAT.

who get 14 to600 on their SAT. He's kind of a jack of all trades like,

He's kind of a jack of all trades like, "Hey, I think I'll go into this, you

"Hey, I think I'll go into this, you know, not really journalism, but he's

know, not really journalism, but he's doing like onion articles and then he

doing like onion articles and then he says, "I think I'll do med school." And

says, "I think I'll do med school." And now he's saying, "Ah, equities trading."

now he's saying, "Ah, equities trading." Um, it's not because he's a failure at

Um, it's not because he's a failure at these things. He's actually a success at

these things. He's actually a success at all of them.

all of them. He's just kind of a,

He's just kind of a, you know, a renaissance man or whatever.

you know, a renaissance man or whatever. And so maybe he's the kind of guy who

And so maybe he's the kind of guy who sleeps in the morning he's going to go

sleeps in the morning he's going to go get the chest. And maybe he's the guy

get the chest. And maybe he's the guy kind of guy who drives right to Forest

kind of guy who drives right to Forest and gives it to him and then just hangs

and gives it to him and then just hangs out and lets Forest go through it. I

out and lets Forest go through it. I couldn't even understand that. Like how

couldn't even understand that. Like how do you not

do you not I don't know that that seemed kind of

I don't know that that seemed kind of weird to me. But I don't know. Just a

weird to me. But I don't know. Just a quirky, you know, smart guy who whose

quirky, you know, smart guy who whose brain works a little. He maybe his brain

brain works a little. He maybe his brain is a is a bicycle that goes backwards.

is a is a bicycle that goes backwards. So

Anyway, he slept in. He slept in.

He slept in. I can't.

I can't. He thinks he slept in.

He thinks he slept in. He doesn't remember.

He doesn't remember. I think I slept in.

I think I slept in. I want that kind of calm in my life

I want that kind of calm in my life because I mean, I wake up and I'm just

because I mean, I wake up and I'm just like, "Oh god, trash day. I gotta get

like, "Oh god, trash day. I gotta get the trash out." Oh god.

the trash out." Oh god. We hear like the beep beep.

We hear like the beep beep. Get the trash out. Oh god. Wait, wait.

Get the trash out. Oh god. Wait, wait. I've got your trash. Yeah. I mean, um,

I've got your trash. Yeah. I mean, um, that's a level of calm and at the same

that's a level of calm and at the same time. So, we have Jack at this level of

time. So, we have Jack at this level of calm that is beyond most of us. And then

calm that is beyond most of us. And then we have Forest who is visiting with you

we have Forest who is visiting with you and being like, all I have is time,

and being like, all I have is time, right?

I can't take it. All I have is time, Matt. All I have is time. No big deal.

Matt. All I have is time. No big deal. Whatever. You stay as long as you want.

Whatever. You stay as long as you want. And again, melt the brain.

I don't know how he did it. We're going to figure it out.

to figure it out. I I'm going to have my butt in the air

I I'm going to have my butt in the air looking for a stick.

looking for a stick. We should crowd

We should crowd both.

both. We should crowdsource the slip ups,

We should crowdsource the slip ups, the potential video slip ups.

the potential video slip ups. Pick years. Everybody pick a year and we

Pick years. Everybody pick a year and we just start looking for them. Cynthy and

just start looking for them. Cynthy and I I think we found one. You do?

I I think we found one. You do? I don't know. I think we did.

I don't know. I think we did. I'm assuming it's in Yellowstone.

I'm assuming it's in Yellowstone. And I'm going to give you my Venmo.

And I'm going to give you my Venmo. [Laughter]

[Laughter] I don't know. I don't care about sharing

I don't know. I don't care about sharing it. You want to share it, Cynthia?

it. You want to share it, Cynthia? Uh, sure.

Uh, sure. Um,

Um, I have it right here.

I have it right here. 2015.

2015. What's the best way to share this slip up? Justin already knows it

slip up? Justin already knows it probably.

probably. It was in It's in the one from the

It was in It's in the one from the California Sunny magazine, right?

California Sunny magazine, right? Well, tell your story because you said

Well, tell your story because you said that you I'm sure you got paid a lot of

that you I'm sure you got paid a lot of money to be the photographers's driver,

money to be the photographers's driver, but tell the story.

but tell the story. Yeah,

Yeah, I did not get paid anything. I had the

I did not get paid anything. I had the pleasure of driving the photographer for

pleasure of driving the photographer for this article to areas that I picked

this article to areas that I picked because he didn't know New Mexico. And

because he didn't know New Mexico. And uh anyway, let's just go right to the

uh anyway, let's just go right to the article.

article. So the so the writer

So the so the writer and this is a fairly lengthy article

and this is a fairly lengthy article that was in the California Sunny

that was in the California Sunny magazine like back in 2015.

magazine like back in 2015. And

And this paragraph um it this paragraph

this paragraph um it this paragraph starts with such ravages of time are

starts with such ravages of time are often on his mind now that he's nearing

often on his mind now that he's nearing his 85th birthday. Though Finn remains

his 85th birthday. Though Finn remains matterof fact about the prospect of his

matterof fact about the prospect of his um my types cut off I think day coming

um my types cut off I think day coming to an end in quotes

to an end in quotes like for said this if I get Alzheimer's

like for said this if I get Alzheimer's I'm going to flag my calendar for for

I'm going to flag my calendar for for six months from now and do it my own

six months from now and do it my own way. He told me do you have it up there?

way. He told me do you have it up there? Yeah, there it is. So yeah, everybody

Yeah, there it is. So yeah, everybody can see it. So, uh, hopefully at my last

can see it. So, uh, hopefully at my last dying gasp, I will still go back to that

dying gasp, I will still go back to that place and die at my favorite.

place and die at my favorite. And then the author continues. He

And then the author continues. He trailed off perhaps wary of giving out a

trailed off perhaps wary of giving out a clue. I don't I don't know if that's the

clue. I don't I don't know if that's the slip up that Jack is referring to,

slip up that Jack is referring to, right? But notice, I mean, the last

right? But notice, I mean, the last dying gasp

dying gasp is like a meme, right? We know that

is like a meme, right? We know that language.

language. Yeah. And then he says he wants to die

Yeah. And then he says he wants to die at my favorite. So it's geography.

at my favorite. So it's geography. So he's telling us where he wants to

So he's telling us where he wants to die. And what what is it? His his

die. And what what is it? His his favorite uh his favorite soccer field,

favorite uh his favorite soccer field, his favorite McDonald's, his favorite

his favorite McDonald's, his favorite No, I think we know what it is, right?

No, I think we know what it is, right? Egg McMuffin.

Egg McMuffin. His favorite

His favorite fishing spot. He told us in Fly Water.

fishing spot. He told us in Fly Water. So, um, the thing to do would be to

So, um, the thing to do would be to maybe I don't know to see if there

maybe I don't know to see if there really was a favorite. Cynthia, I think

really was a favorite. Cynthia, I think you might have some more knowledge about

you might have some more knowledge about this. I I think one time you said his

this. I I think one time you said his favorite river was the Gibbon.

favorite river was the Gibbon. Yeah, that was that's that supposedly

Yeah, that was that's that supposedly was in a um one of the videos that Dale

was in a um one of the videos that Dale did that he posted on his site. You know

did that he posted on his site. You know how after the F degrees, Dale would go

how after the F degrees, Dale would go to Fen's house and um

to Fen's house and um Uh Dale would make videos like six

Uh Dale would make videos like six minutes long or whatever for of Forest

minutes long or whatever for of Forest talking about and fishing was one one of

talking about and fishing was one one of the things that Forest talked about at

the things that Forest talked about at least once if not more. And I'm pretty

least once if not more. And I'm pretty sure it was in one of those videos. But

sure it was in one of those videos. But when I I think he actually stated it

when I I think he actually stated it something like,

something like, "Oh gosh, I just loved that little

"Oh gosh, I just loved that little river." and he was talking about the

river." and he was talking about the gibbon, but it wasn't the words, it was

gibbon, but it wasn't the words, it was the emotion that he had in his voice

the emotion that he had in his voice when he said it. But when someone else

when he said it. But when someone else went I I told someone about this years

went I I told someone about this years ago and they said that they no longer

ago and they said that they no longer could find that. So

could find that. So find the given.

find the given. No, they could not find the video.

No, they could not find the video. Okay. Of Forest actually saying about

Okay. Of Forest actually saying about loving that little river.

loving that little river. Got it.

Oh, you know, I'm shocked over all these

you know, I'm shocked over all these years no one Well, maybe they did and I

years no one Well, maybe they did and I don't know it, but did anyone ever ask

don't know it, but did anyone ever ask Forest like what's your favorite fishing

Forest like what's your favorite fishing hole?

hole? Well, he talks about it. So, the best

Well, he talks about it. So, the best thing people should do is they need to

thing people should do is they need to read the ramblings and rumblings that he

read the ramblings and rumblings that he started writing like back in 1997 or or

started writing like back in 1997 or or whenever it was. And

whenever it was. And um it is published. You can download it

um it is published. You can download it from Dale's blog. So, I'd say hurry up

from Dale's blog. So, I'd say hurry up and do it. If you really want this

and do it. If you really want this information, you need to do it before

information, you need to do it before Dale closes that down. And I believe at

Dale closes that down. And I believe at the end of December is when he is going

the end of December is when he is going to shut down his blog. So, it's there.

to shut down his blog. So, it's there. Horus talks about this the secret

Horus talks about this the secret fishing holes, nine mile hole. I mean,

fishing holes, nine mile hole. I mean, he names uh some of them. So,

he names uh some of them. So, search for uh search for top secret on

search for uh search for top secret on that page. Yeah,

that page. Yeah, Amy.

Oh. Uh, the other hit. I think it was the first hit on the page that you had

You guys see it? Yeah. I mean, um,

the the the drawings and the photographs, uh, are in play for for

photographs, uh, are in play for for hints.

hints. You know, you read this, the nine mile

You know, you read this, the nine mile hole makes you think of fly water and

hole makes you think of fly water and that double page spread. And,

that double page spread. And, you know, I don't I don't know what what

you know, I don't I don't know what what it all means, but

it all means, but I don't know.

Well, nine miles sounds like uh, you know, it's I mean, I'm sure folks

you know, it's I mean, I'm sure folks have said it before, but a not far but

have said it before, but a not far but too far to walk style of answer, right?

too far to walk style of answer, right? I mean, it's

I mean, it's yes, it is nine miles from a certain

yes, it is nine miles from a certain location, but the actual location where

location, but the actual location where it's at this they call it nine mile

it's at this they call it nine mile hole. I mean to me that seems like a

hole. I mean to me that seems like a reference of not far but too far to walk

reference of not far but too far to walk personally but

personally but I don't know.

Yeah, it's I mean it's hard to know what a favorite would be,

a favorite would be, but I I think we're we're we're

but I I think we're we're we're in the right area, you know? I think

in the right area, you know? I think we're in the right area when we're at

we're in the right area when we're at these

these these these fishing spots that he loved.

these these fishing spots that he loved. And

And I agree. Yeah.

I agree. Yeah. You know, it seems obvious, but that's

You know, it seems obvious, but that's what Forest kept saying, and that's what

what Forest kept saying, and that's what The Finder is now saying like a broken

The Finder is now saying like a broken record.

record. It's obvious. It's obvious. It's

It's obvious. It's obvious. It's obvious. He keeps saying it right in

obvious. He keeps saying it right in front of you. You're missing it.

front of you. You're missing it. Wheelbarrow,

Wheelbarrow, you look on on the page there at the

you look on on the page there at the bottom of where your screen is at. You

bottom of where your screen is at. You notice it's Fly Water is

notice it's Fly Water is the excerpt is is right below

the excerpt is is right below the chapter that was in the memoir. And

the chapter that was in the memoir. And it is

it is different than what was actually in the

different than what was actually in the memoir.

memoir. Which part should I scroll down or

Which part should I scroll down or just a little bit?

Yeah, this is all fly water here. I mean, there seems to be a consensus

mean, there seems to be a consensus here. Consensus here with Yellowstone

here. Consensus here with Yellowstone and a sacred fishing spot,

and a sacred fishing spot, right?

right? Is that what I'm getting?

Is that what I'm getting? Mhm.

Talking obvious. He He thought that space was mine alone.

He He thought that space was mine alone. He went alone in there.

It's funny. Forest said, um, "Please don't share ramblings and rumblings."

don't share ramblings and rumblings." Um, I have yet to actually read it.

Um, I have yet to actually read it. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's it's worth a read.

Oh, okay. Yeah, it's it's worth a read. Part of me was

Part of me was part of me didn't want to because it it

part of me didn't want to because it it was something that was readable after

was something that was readable after after

after and reading it kind of acknowledged all

and reading it kind of acknowledged all that and it was hard to face that.

that and it was hard to face that. Right.

Right. Yep. That's fair. Yeah. That that last

Yep. That's fair. Yeah. That that last paragraph there, my tackle box is closed

paragraph there, my tackle box is closed at last and the catis hatch is gone. I

at last and the catis hatch is gone. I will rest through all of time and space,

will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down and scented in. And with

pillowed down and scented in. And with the smile that comes from remembering

the smile that comes from remembering the special things that brought me to

the special things that brought me to that final place.

I know it's stupid, but it makes me cry. You know, I hate endings. I hate endings

You know, I hate endings. I hate endings like you would not believe.

like you would not believe. And and uh you know, the chase uh as far

And and uh you know, the chase uh as far as the chest is concerned is over. And I

as the chest is concerned is over. And I guess that's why I am so hopeful that

guess that's why I am so hopeful that there's some way to verify

there's some way to verify that you found the right place because a

that you found the right place because a part of me

part of me could care less about the chest, which

could care less about the chest, which I'm surprised to realize.

I'm surprised to realize. A part of me could care less about the

A part of me could care less about the financial gain of figuring it out and

financial gain of figuring it out and and is surprisingly

um excited about the potential of figuring it out regardless of the chest.

figuring it out regardless of the chest. I I'm surprised by that.

But but at the same time, I want I want to know that there will be confirmation.

to know that there will be confirmation. And not the kind of I solved it, I know

And not the kind of I solved it, I know where it is. I have the chest kind of

where it is. I have the chest kind of confirmation that like so many people

confirmation that like so many people thought they had, but real actual

thought they had, but real actual confirmation. I I desperately I there's

confirmation. I I desperately I there's a part of my brain that desperately

a part of my brain that desperately wants to know that if I kept working on

wants to know that if I kept working on it, I would for sure 99.99%

it, I would for sure 99.99% [Music]

[Music] know it was the correct spot. Not just

know it was the correct spot. Not just if you go there, you'll know, right?

if you go there, you'll know, right? That's not good enough for me to spend

That's not good enough for me to spend that much time on it. Again, you know,

that much time on it. Again, you know, after spending five years working on

after spending five years working on this,

this, I I want I want an assurance, which so

I I want I want an assurance, which so far with the blaze being potentially

far with the blaze being potentially damaged or destroyed, we may or may not

damaged or destroyed, we may or may not have.

It's unfortunate. That was a deep sigh, man. That was a

That was a deep sigh, man. That was a deep sigh.

Oh my god, that was such a deep sigh. That's the problem, isn't it? So, um, so

That's the problem, isn't it? So, um, so if any of you are listening and want to

if any of you are listening and want to ask Jack that question, is there any

ask Jack that question, is there any potential way? cuz like I I do feel bad

potential way? cuz like I I do feel bad like I've bugged him enough and and and

like I've bugged him enough and and and you know honeymoon period over. Are you

you know honeymoon period over. Are you done answering questions, Jack? Because

done answering questions, Jack? Because obviously we will only ever have more.

obviously we will only ever have more. But you know,

But you know, you will have

you will have What did you say, Matt?

What did you say, Matt? Oh, well, my son is back from uh

Oh, well, my son is back from uh college. He just pulled in from

college. He just pulled in from Oh, cool.

Oh, cool. I was greeting him.

I was greeting him. Hi, Matt. Son, come join the party. His

Hi, Matt. Son, come join the party. His name is Ben and he's an actor so you can

name is Ben and he's an actor so you can see him and some

see him and some Wait, he's an actor.

Wait, he's an actor. Yes.

Yes. Put the link in chat, baby.

Put the link in chat, baby. That's so cool.

That's so cool. Just a student now, but he's very

Just a student now, but he's very talented.

talented. What uh what what sort of acting?

What uh what what sort of acting? Um he's he was just doing theater here

Um he's he was just doing theater here in Dallas as a child and as a young man

in Dallas as a child and as a young man and but now he's studying that at uh

and but now he's studying that at uh Webster in St. Louis. Webster College is

Webster in St. Louis. Webster College is a small school.

a small school. Nice.

Nice. Yeah. Very cool.

Yeah. Very cool. He's an actor.

I studied a little in college so of course I'm an expert.

You know just enough to be dangerous. I know just enough to embarrass myself.

I know just enough to embarrass myself. I can think of few things I know less

I can think of few things I know less about than acting.

about than acting. All you need to know is you get a few

All you need to know is you get a few drinks in you and everybody's a ham. Go

drinks in you and everybody's a ham. Go karaoke.

karaoke. [Music]

[Music] [Laughter]

[Laughter] Um let's see here. Uh let me take a

Um let's see here. Uh let me take a quick look at chat. Um, Dee says at

quick look at chat. Um, Dee says at first he suspected foul play with his

first he suspected foul play with his unexpected discovery in a previously

unexpected discovery in a previously searched location. Coupled coupled with

searched location. Coupled coupled with the messy condition of the contents led

the messy condition of the contents led him to need to question Forest. Again,

him to need to question Forest. Again, DD, no idea what you mean. Okay. Um,

DD, no idea what you mean. Okay. Um, above that, Billy Shaw, uh, Junior,

above that, Billy Shaw, uh, Junior, maybe he had to avoid people in the

maybe he had to avoid people in the area. No, it seems like it seems like he

area. No, it seems like it seems like he was so like like there was no one else

was so like like there was no one else in the area besides the fake Blaze

in the area besides the fake Blaze party. Somebody has asked him that

party. Somebody has asked him that as he was, you know, going over his

as he was, you know, going over his football fields,

football fields, how often did he see other folks?

how often did he see other folks? Okay.

Okay. What's our main qu So that like

What's our main qu So that like obviously I had 30 questions I wanted to

obviously I had 30 questions I wanted to send him, right? And he's like, "Do

send him, right? And he's like, "Do I'm like reasonable. very reasonable.

I'm like reasonable. very reasonable. All of these were within that, right? Um

All of these were within that, right? Um what are what are your t top questions

what are what are your t top questions that you would want answered? Uh

that you would want answered? Uh reasonably, obviously, not where's the

reasonably, obviously, not where's the chest. Um Cynthia, you go first.

chest. Um Cynthia, you go first. Um

Um Yellowstone, yes or no. That's number

Yellowstone, yes or no. That's number one for me.

one for me. And

And I don't think he'll answer that.

I don't think he'll answer that. Well, no. I'm sure he wouldn't, but Amy

Well, no. I'm sure he wouldn't, but Amy didn't ask me what I'd asked that he'll

didn't ask me what I'd asked that he'll answer. That was that's just my first

answer. That was that's just my first You're so negative, Justin.

You're so negative, Justin. My first question. Um, and then I also

My first question. Um, and then I also like the one that Amy just said about

like the one that Amy just said about did how did you run into people after

did how did you run into people after you parked your car? between where you

you parked your car? between where you parked your car and where the chest was

parked your car and where the chest was both to and back did both days Friday

both to and back did both days Friday and Saturday did you encounter other

and Saturday did you encounter other people

because if he's well June you know the good thing about June for him during the

good thing about June for him during the pandemic there's hardly anybody there I

pandemic there's hardly anybody there I mean I was there and I know this

mean I was there and I know this well you were you were there at a time

well you were you were there at a time that it was just like nobody

that it was just like nobody Yeah. And you know what? So, so, and I

Yeah. And you know what? So, so, and I started to think this about the Firehole

started to think this about the Firehole Canyon and why I would not make that my

Canyon and why I would not make that my choice at all. That road was closed. I

choice at all. That road was closed. I walked back it and I bet and I ran into

walked back it and I bet and I ran into a ranger who was working back there and

a ranger who was working back there and he said, "What are you doing here?" And

he said, "What are you doing here?" And it's like, "Oh, I'm just hiking." He had

it's like, "Oh, I'm just hiking." He had I mean, I startled him.

I mean, I startled him. This was like May 18th.

This was like May 18th. Yeah. A park ranger was startled to see

Yeah. A park ranger was startled to see a hiker.

a hiker. Yes. Because there it was the first day

Yes. Because there it was the first day the park opened after the pandemic and

the park opened after the pandemic and you had to come in. Yeah. I mean, you

you had to come in. Yeah. I mean, you had to come in from Cody or Jackson and

had to come in from Cody or Jackson and it's like there's nobody. There were a

it's like there's nobody. There were a few cars driving through, but no one

few cars driving through, but no one else nothing was open but gas stations.

else nothing was open but gas stations. So, there was no food. And and some of

So, there was no food. And and some of the restrooms, I believe, were open, but

the restrooms, I believe, were open, but there was no food. There was nothing

there was no food. There was nothing else there. And I was in there as soon

else there. And I was in there as soon as park opened that morning. And and the

as park opened that morning. And and the fact that I actually parked at the gate

fact that I actually parked at the gate to the Firehole Canyon and then I walked

to the Firehole Canyon and then I walked back.

back. He he wasn't expecting anybody. So So

He he wasn't expecting anybody. So So now we're talking from May 18th to June

now we're talking from May 18th to June 5th. I'll tell you what, this the

5th. I'll tell you what, this the pandemic really helped Jack because

pandemic really helped Jack because there's hardly anybody in the park

there's hardly anybody in the park if anyone was in the same search area.

if anyone was in the same search area. But that's why but but going back to

But that's why but but going back to Fire Hole Canyon. Well, maybe that's why

Fire Hole Canyon. Well, maybe that's why it was such exercise to get it back to

it was such exercise to get it back to his car because he had to park at the

his car because he had to park at the gate and walk back the canyon to get it

gate and walk back the canyon to get it and then bring it back to his car. Don't

and then bring it back to his car. Don't know.

know. I think it'd be more interesting

I think it'd be more interesting question to ask. you know, in 2019

question to ask. you know, in 2019 during a normal year when he was out

during a normal year when he was out searching that area for however many

searching that area for however many days, you know, how many searchers or

days, you know, how many searchers or no, how many how many people did he run

no, how many how many people did he run into while he was searching?

into while he was searching? Yeah, that's better.

Um Justin and Cynthia, you guys are really familiar with that area. when he

really familiar with that area. when he said, "As much as I didn't want it to be

said, "As much as I didn't want it to be in this area, if just for the sake of

in this area, if just for the sake of argument, if we take that not as

argument, if we take that not as Yellowstone in the grand scheme of

Yellowstone in the grand scheme of things, but on a micro level, a a

things, but on a micro level, a a smaller area, can you think of areas

smaller area, can you think of areas there where

there where if if you somehow were convinced that

if if you somehow were convinced that oh, it's over here or it's right around

oh, it's over here or it's right around that bend, are there areas where you

that bend, are there areas where you would say to yourself, "Oh man, I really

would say to yourself, "Oh man, I really wish it wasn't here, but it is and so

wish it wasn't here, but it is and so I'm going to look here." Can you think

I'm going to look here." Can you think of ways like or

of ways like or Yeah, for me, absolutely. The thermal

Yeah, for me, absolutely. The thermal areas that are so fragile where the

areas that are so fragile where the terrain is so fragile, if you aren't

terrain is so fragile, if you aren't careful, you you can not that you're

careful, you you can not that you're going to fall in, I'm saying, but you

going to fall in, I'm saying, but you just damage it. So, I don't know. Or you

just damage it. So, I don't know. Or you could fall in, too. I know when Sandy

could fall in, too. I know when Sandy and I went back to um Silvin Springs,

and I went back to um Silvin Springs, the group of springs back there, we

the group of springs back there, we followed the bison, the piles of bison

followed the bison, the piles of bison poop. So that we when we traversed

poop. So that we when we traversed across the hot area,

across the hot area, it was so dangerous seeming. I mean, and

it was so dangerous seeming. I mean, and this is far enough back so most uh

this is far enough back so most uh people aren't going to go back there,

people aren't going to go back there, but we needed to make sure that we

but we needed to make sure that we weren't going to fall through the crust.

weren't going to fall through the crust. So it's like, well, let's just follow

So it's like, well, let's just follow where the bison go. If they didn't fall

where the bison go. If they didn't fall through, we won't fall through. And

through, we won't fall through. And that's what we did. So if you're in an

that's what we did. So if you're in an area like that, Yeah. I mean, it it's

area like that, Yeah. I mean, it it's it's real fragile.

it's real fragile. Yeah. Forest told me a story about that.

Yeah. Forest told me a story about that. I think I shared that with you guys when

I think I shared that with you guys when we were um when we were hiking together.

we were um when we were hiking together. He said that one time uh he and Skippy

He said that one time uh he and Skippy were out and they were hiking along and

were out and they were hiking along and they had just walked over an area and

they had just walked over an area and they turned back and like it started

they turned back and like it started bubbling up like the landscape was

bubbling up like the landscape was changing right in front of them and that

changing right in front of them and that you know that's that's part the parts of

you know that's that's part the parts of Yellowstone. Yeah. So that that would be

Yellowstone. Yeah. So that that would be one place where you'd say man I wish I

one place where you'd say man I wish I wish this weren't the area but I I've

wish this weren't the area but I I've become convinced that it is. I mean, a

become convinced that it is. I mean, a few a few things come to mind, and this

few a few things come to mind, and this isn't I mean, this is just kind of more

isn't I mean, this is just kind of more general, but

general, but let's take an example. So, let's say

let's take an example. So, let's say you're over near the earthquake visitor

you're over near the earthquake visitor center. I mean, we know that it was in

center. I mean, we know that it was in Wyoming and not in in Montana, but let's

Wyoming and not in in Montana, but let's just say, just as an example, and you

just say, just as an example, and you were convinced that the treasure was

were convinced that the treasure was hidden under the memorial boulder that

hidden under the memorial boulder that they have that is protected at the top

they have that is protected at the top of the visitor center drive. You'd

of the visitor center drive. You'd really wish it wasn't there because

really wish it wasn't there because you're not supposed to like go beyond

you're not supposed to like go beyond the rope and go over there and disturb

the rope and go over there and disturb the site. But hypothetically, if

the site. But hypothetically, if everything was looking or trending in

everything was looking or trending in that direction, you'd say, "Well, damn

that direction, you'd say, "Well, damn it. It's got to be there, right?" Like

it. It's got to be there, right?" Like that. That's an unfortunate set of

that. That's an unfortunate set of circumstances where it's pointing to an

circumstances where it's pointing to an area that you're really not supposed to

area that you're really not supposed to be in. It's not dangerous, per se, but

be in. It's not dangerous, per se, but it's it's not a place that you're

it's it's not a place that you're supposed to be, you know, uh that that I

supposed to be, you know, uh that that I could see as a possibility just kind of

could see as a possibility just kind of generally speaking. And then

generally speaking. And then and Jack said elsewhere, he said it's

and Jack said elsewhere, he said it's not dangerous in the conventional sense,

not dangerous in the conventional sense, right? But this is not this is not a

right? But this is not this is not a good tourist site. I I I don't want to

good tourist site. I I I don't want to let people know about the site because

let people know about the site because it's you know so that that's interesting

it's you know so that that's interesting that you say that

that you say that and I think that that's I think a lot of

and I think that that's I think a lot of things are for me anyway it's kind of

things are for me anyway it's kind of inkling in that direction you know so

inkling in that direction you know so we're talking about this blaze being

we're talking about this blaze being what I believe to be pretty specific you

what I believe to be pretty specific you know if we were to say what it was we we

know if we were to say what it was we we probably know the spot or at least the

probably know the spot or at least the area. I mean, all of these types of

area. I mean, all of these types of things tend to are are are trending

things tend to are are are trending toward a place that's well known and

toward a place that's well known and protected where it's off limits, right?

protected where it's off limits, right? Like do not touch, so to speak.

Like do not touch, so to speak. But it's not dangerous to be there. The

But it's not dangerous to be there. The only reason you're not supposed to be

only reason you're not supposed to be there is just because some authority

there is just because some authority says you can't.

says you can't. Um, that one comes to mind and you know

Um, that one comes to mind and you know that might be a reason why he actually

that might be a reason why he actually left the park and called or wherever it

left the park and called or wherever it was you know to get reception and call

was you know to get reception and call fors and say you really want me to go in

fors and say you really want me to go in there and get that thing like how'd you

there and get that thing like how'd you get it in there you know it's like geez

get it in there you know it's like geez and you know another reason why he might

and you know another reason why he might have had to have been careful and

have had to have been careful and methodical to get it out of there

methodical to get it out of there because it's not that simple and maybe

because it's not that simple and maybe that's why he's saying Terry scan you

that's why he's saying Terry scan you got to get the hell out of there you're

got to get the hell out of there you're really not supposed to be you're not

really not supposed to be you're not supposed to be there um but I like that

supposed to be there um but I like that because it's protected. It's something

because it's protected. It's something that, you know, you you you have some

that, you know, you you you have some assurance isn't going to be damaged over

assurance isn't going to be damaged over time beyond this quirk with the blaze

time beyond this quirk with the blaze being damaged uh you know, so that it's

being damaged uh you know, so that it's going to stand the test of time uh for

going to stand the test of time uh for all intents and purposes. So that that's

all intents and purposes. So that that's that's one thought that I had. And the

that's one thought that I had. And the other one would be

other one would be a place like the swimming pool, right?

a place like the swimming pool, right? So you go down to the swimming hole and

So you go down to the swimming hole and if you go just downstream from the

if you go just downstream from the swimming hole, you can walk across the

swimming hole, you can walk across the river. Um, you know, it's technically

river. Um, you know, it's technically waiting, but you know, you're in ankle

waiting, but you know, you're in ankle deep water. It's not a big deal. Anyone

deep water. It's not a big deal. Anyone can do it. Uh, but it's it's a

can do it. Uh, but it's it's a trafficked area. You've got a lot of

trafficked area. You've got a lot of people that are in the swimming area

people that are in the swimming area doing their thing. And and actually one

doing their thing. And and actually one day I I sat down at the bank of the

day I I sat down at the bank of the swimming pool, this just the swimming

swimming pool, this just the swimming area for the fire hole. And I just

area for the fire hole. And I just watched people for like I mean I didn't

watched people for like I mean I didn't not in a creepy sense.

not in a creepy sense. He's got his binoculars out. He's

He's got his binoculars out. He's looking at the bikinis.

looking at the bikinis. That just sounded wrong. briefly. I

That just sounded wrong. briefly. I filmed

filmed I just filmed everyone and uploaded

I just filmed everyone and uploaded footage.

footage. Yeah, exactly. Right. So, I have tons of

Yeah, exactly. Right. So, I have tons of footage.

Check it out at justinwatchesladies.com. I mentally undressed everyone, but not

I mentally undressed everyone, but not in a creepy way.

in a creepy way. Yeah, I saw you there, Matt. No. Um,

Yeah, I saw you there, Matt. No. Um, so you know, I I sat there for at least

so you know, I I sat there for at least two hours and just kind of observing

two hours and just kind of observing like just the behavior around the

like just the behavior around the swimming area. And you really had two

swimming area. And you really had two categories. You had the kids and then

categories. You had the kids and then you had everybody else. The kids, they'd

you had everybody else. The kids, they'd get in the water right away. They'd have

get in the water right away. They'd have a good time. They'd swim around. They

a good time. They'd swim around. They would do a little bit more exploration.

would do a little bit more exploration. But, you know, generally people were

But, you know, generally people were staying in the swimming hole area. it. I

staying in the swimming hole area. it. I you know, in the hours that I watched

you know, in the hours that I watched and all the time that I've spent there,

and all the time that I've spent there, I could probably count on one hand the

I could probably count on one hand the number of times that I've seen people go

number of times that I've seen people go to the other side with like the intent

to the other side with like the intent of going into the woods over there.

of going into the woods over there. Right. Like some pe people will go to

Right. Like some pe people will go to the other shore. They might sit on the

the other shore. They might sit on the bank, they might kind of walk along it,

bank, they might kind of walk along it, but they don't stray too far. Um

but they don't stray too far. Um Right. Right. So, you know, it's a it's

Right. Right. So, you know, it's a it's it's slightly an awkward position

it's slightly an awkward position because it's like, geez, you got to go

because it's like, geez, you got to go through all these people and everything

through all these people and everything to get to to a place that's more

to get to to a place that's more private.

private. All these ladies and all their bikinis

All these ladies and all their bikinis is just

is just that's rough. Yeah.

that's rough. Yeah. No, but the the road is right there.

No, but the the road is right there. Tourists, people were swimming and and

Tourists, people were swimming and and to determine that the no, the treasure

to determine that the no, the treasure chest is around here somewhere. That

chest is around here somewhere. That would be like, oh man, I don't want it

would be like, oh man, I don't want it to be here. Okay. I see.

to be here. Okay. I see. Right.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know he talks

Yeah. Yeah. And and you know he talks about that area in the sense that he hid

about that area in the sense that he hid his toys there when he was a kid. We

his toys there when he was a kid. We know that he has a secret spot around

know that he has a secret spot around there.

there. What if that's the old spots?

What if that's the old spots? He likes that.

He likes that. Yeah. He would come year after year and

Yeah. He would come year after year and his toys were still there. This is a

his toys were still there. This is a very trafficked area and his toys were

very trafficked area and his toys were still there. That says

still there. That says where we find this about the toys.

where we find this about the toys. Oh boy. That's in um

Oh boy. That's in um I think it's in Too Far to Walk.

I think it's in Too Far to Walk. We've got Too Far to Walk where the toys

We've got Too Far to Walk where the toys were at the house. We've got the article

were at the house. We've got the article where the um stuff was left in

where the um stuff was left in Yellowstone, then they come back from

Yellowstone, then they come back from it. Um

it. Um no, there's another one about his hiding

no, there's another one about his hiding his toys near the swimming area.

his toys near the swimming area. Now, that one I haven't heard, but I

Now, that one I haven't heard, but I wouldn't be surprised.

See what I can find here. Just Jack does say to read all the memoirs.

Jack does say to read all the memoirs. Yeah, maybe I'm crazy. Anything anything

Yeah, maybe I'm crazy. Anything anything that tells you about who Forest is, he

that tells you about who Forest is, he seems to

seems to and especially any anything where Forest

and especially any anything where Forest is speaking.

is speaking. Yeah.

Yeah. What?

What? Anything where Forest is doing the

Anything where Forest is doing the talking.

talking. So if it's his memoirs or an interview.

So if it's his memoirs or an interview. Yes.

Yes. Which I have watched, you know, I mean,

Which I have watched, you know, I mean, five years in the chase. I I've watched

five years in the chase. I I've watched it all. You know, it's it's it's funny

it all. You know, it's it's it's funny because

because you know, if that's the answer, I'm

you know, if that's the answer, I'm like, I'm out because I've already seen

like, I'm out because I've already seen them all, watched them all, taken notes

them all, watched them all, taken notes on them all, all that kind of stuff. And

on them all, all that kind of stuff. And um I'm like, I I you know, obviously it

um I'm like, I I you know, obviously it it let me know who Forest was e even.

it let me know who Forest was e even. So, and it's different. You know, you

So, and it's different. You know, you meet Forest in person and again, there's

meet Forest in person and again, there's it like all of us, we have all these

it like all of us, we have all these different sides. and meeting Forest in

different sides. and meeting Forest in person, all of a sudden you see these

person, all of a sudden you see these different sides. It's like there's this

different sides. It's like there's this side, there's this side, there's this

side, there's this side, there's this side, there's this sides, there's the

side, there's this sides, there's the ham, there's the um cryptic person,

ham, there's the um cryptic person, there's the uh goofy person, there's

there's the uh goofy person, there's the, you know, and um and none of it

the, you know, and um and none of it obviously helped me in a way that the

obviously helped me in a way that the finder says that you will be helped by.

finder says that you will be helped by. Um,

Um, well, it it may have helped you. Just

well, it it may have helped you. Just didn't help you, you know, completely or

didn't help you, you know, completely or whatever.

whatever. I I'm pretty sure I was really close.

I I'm pretty sure I was really close. No, but I I think I think people were on

No, but I I think I think people were on the right track if they were if they

the right track if they were if they were

were seeing this as a as a personal thing for

seeing this as a as a personal thing for Forest and

Forest and But but I mean were we I mean he

But but I mean were we I mean he I see this is what um I mean he he

I see this is what um I mean he he learned of TTOC he got the book and a

learned of TTOC he got the book and a couple weeks later a few weeks later he

couple weeks later a few weeks later he had his area.

That was pretty quick, you know,

you know, right? That's what that's what boggles

right? That's what that's what boggles my mind. I'm like, if something's

my mind. I'm like, if something's supposed to be the person who did the

supposed to be the person who did the work, if something's supposed to be 100

work, if something's supposed to be 100 to a thousand years and someone had the

to a thousand years and someone had the general area two weeks after it, it

general area two weeks after it, it sounds like all those other people who

sounds like all those other people who were within 2 to 500 ft of the treasure,

were within 2 to 500 ft of the treasure, you know, and but but but the good part

you know, and but but but the good part of that is is that if there is any

of that is is that if there is any potential way we can figure out from

potential way we can figure out from Jack that we can learn 100% that we

Jack that we can learn 100% that we found the area, we have a chance of

found the area, we have a chance of finding that area the same way he did.

finding that area the same way he did. I agree.

I agree. I was just looking for that that

I was just looking for that that excerpt. Boy, I feel like I'm going

excerpt. Boy, I feel like I'm going crazy. Maybe.

crazy. Maybe. Do you know where that is?

Do you know where that is? Yeah, I am.

Yeah, I am. No,

No, you are crazy. It's okay.

you are crazy. It's okay. Yeah, no doubt there. Like I could have

Yeah, no doubt there. Like I could have sworn I read something about

sworn I read something about toys hidden somewhere. I guess I'm I

toys hidden somewhere. I guess I'm I don't know. Maybe someone in the chat

don't know. Maybe someone in the chat can set me straight. I'm not sure.

remember any uh keywords that are lookupable?

lookupable? That's what I've been looking at here.

That's what I've been looking at here. If I think it was in Too Far to Walk and

If I think it was in Too Far to Walk and and if it's not, then I'm just just not

and if it's not, then I'm just just not remembering.

remembering. The only one in Too Far to Walk that I

The only one in Too Far to Walk that I remember was the toys on the front

remember was the toys on the front stoop. Uh the house had burnt down. He

stoop. Uh the house had burnt down. He got out his little toys. I actually have

got out his little toys. I actually have Cynthia, you were there. Um just a few

Cynthia, you were there. Um just a few weeks ago, right?

weeks ago, right? I was where

I was where in Temple?

in Temple? Yeah, a couple months ago I was in

Yeah, a couple months ago I was in Temple. Yes.

Temple. Yes. Oh, was it months now?

Oh, was it months now? I think it was in November. Well, it was

I think it was in November. Well, it was last month. That was November.

last month. That was November. Had you uh had you been to Temple

Had you uh had you been to Temple before?

before? No.

No. Oh, okay. Did you just drive through? I

Oh, okay. Did you just drive through? I went there just to go to the Hillrest

went there just to go to the Hillrest Cemetery to uh see it and I was hoping

Cemetery to uh see it and I was hoping that maybe there would be a headstone or

that maybe there would be a headstone or something for Forest and Peggy by then.

something for Forest and Peggy by then. So, I reached out to Zoe and she said

So, I reached out to Zoe and she said there will never be a headstone or

there will never be a headstone or marker for Forest and Peggy there.

marker for Forest and Peggy there. She didn't say they aren't there. She

She didn't say they aren't there. She said there will never be a marker there.

said there will never be a marker there. Their marker will be in the Veterans

Their marker will be in the Veterans Cemetery in Santa Fe. And I don't think

Cemetery in Santa Fe. And I don't think most anyone will ever know where their

most anyone will ever know where their remains are.

remains are. Huh.

Huh. That's the That's how I analyze her

That's the That's how I analyze her response.

response. Okay.

There is is it there is supposed to be a plaque

is it there is supposed to be a plaque though um for military wise.

though um for military wise. Yeah, it's at the veterans that's the

Yeah, it's at the veterans that's the veterans one in Santa Fe. There will be

veterans one in Santa Fe. There will be Yes.

Yes. But it doesn't mean that their remains

But it doesn't mean that their remains are there,

are there, right? Just a plaque.

right? Just a plaque. Did you go by the house?

Did you go by the house? Yes, you bet.

Yes, you bet. It's pretty cool.

It's pretty cool. Took pictures.

Took pictures. Yeah, even though it's just a a lot with

Yeah, even though it's just a a lot with the stairs. It is pretty It is pretty

the stairs. It is pretty It is pretty cool to be there.

cool to be there. Have you been there, Matt?

Have you been there, Matt? Uh just once. Yeah. When I was uh

Uh just once. Yeah. When I was uh driving through, I stopped in.

It's It's kind of hard. It's weird. You know, I'm flipping through this book. It

know, I'm flipping through this book. It was such a huge part of my life.

was such a huge part of my life. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, and now it's just so over. It

You know, and now it's just so over. It hurts. It's shockingly painful. I'm

hurts. It's shockingly painful. I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to look for this

like, "Oh, I'm going to look for this story." And I'm flipping through here

story." And I'm flipping through here and I just know I've spent so much time.

and I just know I've spent so much time. You spent a lot of time in that memoir.

You spent a lot of time in that memoir. I spent a lot of time on everything.

I spent a lot of time on everything. And it's just so weird because I'm I'm

And it's just so weird because I'm I'm someone who likes to, you know, paddle

someone who likes to, you know, paddle down the river denial when things

down the river denial when things happen. I'm like, "Nah, too much. Can't

happen. I'm like, "Nah, too much. Can't handle it. We're just going to breeze

handle it. We're just going to breeze past it." And so whenever you're kind of

past it." And so whenever you're kind of faced with it, it it's like, "Ah, dang

faced with it, it it's like, "Ah, dang it." It kind of takes you by surprise in

it." It kind of takes you by surprise in that sense. um you know like I have all

that sense. um you know like I have all these notes and I have the you know I

these notes and I have the you know I compared all the books and um and

compared all the books and um and talking with Forest right and meeting

talking with Forest right and meeting Peggy and Shiloh and you know it's just

Peggy and Shiloh and you know it's just all over and yeah it's weird um it's

all over and yeah it's weird um it's weird when it hits you

weird when it hits you emotionally all of a sudden it's like a

emotionally all of a sudden it's like a punch in the face

punch in the face it's like yep it's over

it's like yep it's over you know um obviously it's not over

you know um obviously it's not over because we're still here but uh it's

because we're still here but uh it's just I Guess it just takes me by

just I Guess it just takes me by surprise. Um,

surprise. Um, so I'm like trying to scroll through

so I'm like trying to scroll through here to find the sweet little story. And

here to find the sweet little story. And oh, here's a lovely inscription. There

oh, here's a lovely inscription. There we go.

Um, those kind of things, they just, you know, they trigger the emotional aspect

know, they trigger the emotional aspect of it all that you don't sometimes

of it all that you don't sometimes realize you have. And uh and then all of

realize you have. And uh and then all of a sudden you start scrolling through

a sudden you start scrolling through these images and you see forest and you

these images and you see forest and you see your notes and and you see an

see your notes and and you see an inscription and all that kind of stuff

inscription and all that kind of stuff and all of a sudden all of a sudden you

and all of a sudden all of a sudden you get this and you're like, "Oh here

get this and you're like, "Oh here it comes." So anyway, but um

it comes." So anyway, but um let me see if I can actually find this

let me see if I can actually find this if I can emotionally shut my brain off

if I can emotionally shut my brain off for a second. Uh I thought it was at the

for a second. Uh I thought it was at the beginning.

beginning. Um sorry everyone.

Um sorry everyone. Where is the story about the uh is it in

Where is the story about the uh is it in a different book? Is it in the other

a different book? Is it in the other book where he goes um toys the toys he

book where he goes um toys the toys he finds at his house?

finds at his house? It's in part, isn't it?

It's in part, isn't it? I think remember.

I think remember. Yeah.

Yeah. Long jump supplemental punch.

Long jump supplemental punch. Kind of bugging me now.

Kind of bugging me now. Give me a second and I'll I'll I'll take

Give me a second and I'll I'll I'll take an actual look.

an actual look. And I I wasn't trying to put you on the

And I I wasn't trying to put you on the spot. I was just

spot. I was just I was just like,

I was just like, trust me, I had I had no idea this was

trust me, I had I had no idea this was going to come out.

going to come out. No, no, no, no, no. I'm with Justin, I I

No, no, no, no, no. I'm with Justin, I I I was just curious and you'll be able to

I was just curious and you'll be able to find it tomorrow or whatever.

find it tomorrow or whatever. Oh, no. Yeah, I just I get I get into

Oh, no. Yeah, I just I get I get into this stuff, but yeah, I for whatever

this stuff, but yeah, I for whatever reason, I distinctly recall a story

reason, I distinctly recall a story where he talked about little trinkets or

where he talked about little trinkets or toys that he had that he would hide near

toys that he had that he would hide near the swimming hole area of the fire hole.

the swimming hole area of the fire hole. And I I just I I don't know why that's

And I I just I I don't know why that's sticking with me.

sticking with me. That's probably the video. We need to

That's probably the video. We need to find where the slip was.

find where the slip was. And that's funny because I thought this

And that's funny because I thought this was like super common. I mean, when I

was like super common. I mean, when I was telling it to you guys, I'm like,

was telling it to you guys, I'm like, you know, it was like, of course you of

you know, it was like, of course you of course this this story exists. And now I

course this this story exists. And now I feel like I maybe I've just completely

feel like I maybe I've just completely imagined it. I don't know. I know I saw

imagined it. I don't know. I know I saw it somewhere. I really feel like I did.

it somewhere. I really feel like I did. That I I'll I want to say this.

That I I'll I want to say this. Um

Um there's definitely a correlation in the

there's definitely a correlation in the in the um in the spaces

in the um in the spaces in the YouTube channels where people are

in the YouTube channels where people are sympathetic to Forest and the family and

sympathetic to Forest and the family and kind of pro-chase and things are

kind of pro-chase and things are positive. You'll notice that people are

positive. You'll notice that people are very careful to

very careful to read the primary source material, to

read the primary source material, to memorize the important quotes, all this

memorize the important quotes, all this material. If you have the unfortunate

material. If you have the unfortunate uh

uh if you're ever in the unfortunate uh

if you're ever in the unfortunate uh situation of having to listen to these

situation of having to listen to these other channels, you will notice a

other channels, you will notice a complete ignorance of the primary source

complete ignorance of the primary source material. These people did not have a

material. These people did not have a relationship with Forest. They do not

relationship with Forest. They do not quote his words. They uh some of them

quote his words. They uh some of them they'll just say they didn't own half

they'll just say they didn't own half the books.

the books. And so you just wonder like what is this

And so you just wonder like what is this about for them? It's just some weird

about for them? It's just some weird obsession, right? And so the fact that

obsession, right? And so the fact that we're trying to remember

we're trying to remember two sentences from,

two sentences from, you know, quite a large body of work and

you know, quite a large body of work and we occasionally make a mistake and we

we occasionally make a mistake and we have to go back and fix it and find it.

have to go back and fix it and find it. That's a good thing. Like we're just

That's a good thing. Like we're just trying to remember the facts and know

trying to remember the facts and know what Forest said or whatever. But I I

what Forest said or whatever. But I I have noticed that um in some in some

have noticed that um in some in some channels there's just like no care

channels there's just like no care whatsoever.

whatsoever. um they, you know, didn't buy the book

um they, you know, didn't buy the book or they bought the one but not the

or they bought the one but not the other. They they don't quote him. They

other. They they don't quote him. They don't they don't they don't care. They

don't they don't they don't care. They don't know. It's it's like a completely

don't know. It's it's like a completely different mentality. Like it's it's

different mentality. Like it's it's really kind of weird. So anyway, I I I I

really kind of weird. So anyway, I I I I think I think the fact that occasionally

think I think the fact that occasionally we get a quote wrong or whatever, it

we get a quote wrong or whatever, it just shows that we care. Shows that we

just shows that we care. Shows that we care to get it right. And um Cynthia is

care to get it right. And um Cynthia is always like my

always like my uh she's just like a a I'm her disciple

uh she's just like a a I'm her disciple because of the way you commit quotes to

because of the way you commit quotes to memory. It's important. It's important

memory. It's important. It's important when you get them wrong and

when you get them wrong and because you hear people say, "Oh yeah,

because you hear people say, "Oh yeah, well Forest said this." And you're like,

well Forest said this." And you're like, "You didn't, you know." So

"You didn't, you know." So yeah, there were so many times where

yeah, there were so many times where shoot I'm still crying.

shoot I'm still crying. Dang it. Something touched a nerve.

Dang it. Something touched a nerve. It's like those floodgates, right?

It's like those floodgates, right? Something happened and boom, just

Something happened and boom, just But yeah, there were plenty of times

But yeah, there were plenty of times where um before I had a show, right? You

where um before I had a show, right? You know, I'd be watching one of the shows

know, I'd be watching one of the shows and somebody would say something and I'm

and somebody would say something and I'm just like, "Oh man, that is so wrong."

just like, "Oh man, that is so wrong." Right? you know, because I if if you

Right? you know, because I if if you watch my first video, you see this this

watch my first video, you see this this landslide of paperwork I had of

landslide of paperwork I had of everything printed out because um

everything printed out because um because I never wanted to go down some

because I never wanted to go down some rabbit hole unnecessarily because in the

rabbit hole unnecessarily because in the end on your deathbed, time is the

end on your deathbed, time is the ultimate money thing, right? Time

ultimate money thing, right? Time there's money, there's this, there's

there's money, there's this, there's this, but time is the ultimate cost. Um,

this, but time is the ultimate cost. Um, and so for me, any time I had free that

and so for me, any time I had free that I could spend on this was so important

I could spend on this was so important that I wanted to make sure everything

that I wanted to make sure everything was correct that I had. And yeah, people

was correct that I had. And yeah, people always had stuff wrong. Um, and it it it

always had stuff wrong. Um, and it it it wasn't malicious or anything. It was

wasn't malicious or anything. It was just people who um heard something,

just people who um heard something, interpreted it, and then would

interpreted it, and then would regurgitate it, and it was wasn't

regurgitate it, and it was wasn't correct.

correct. And um uh it's funny because when you

And um uh it's funny because when you are and I mean obviously at this point

are and I mean obviously at this point you can tell that as much as I am trying

you can tell that as much as I am trying to boom past things and get you know go

to boom past things and get you know go forward and all that kind of stuff. Um

forward and all that kind of stuff. Um when you spend five years of your life

when you spend five years of your life of your free time and and your free time

of your free time and and your free time is so precious

is so precious it does you do get invested. You can't

it does you do get invested. You can't help it and and um and it does trigger

help it and and um and it does trigger that stuff. Um, so, so when other people

that stuff. Um, so, so when other people got the information wrong,

got the information wrong, you know, you were like it was, it was

you know, you were like it was, it was hard because you you wanted to correct

hard because you you wanted to correct them, but at the same time, you're like,

them, but at the same time, you're like, it doesn't really matter as much to

it doesn't really matter as much to them, so just let it go. It's like it's

them, so just let it go. It's like it's like, no big deal, whatever. They got it

like, no big deal, whatever. They got it wrong. Um, but but it it is funny when

wrong. Um, but but it it is funny when you get so invested, you know,

you get so invested, you know, immediately when it is wrong. You're

immediately when it is wrong. You're like, "Nope, never heard that." Right?

like, "Nope, never heard that." Right? And then you you're like, "That was in

And then you you're like, "That was in this." and and you start typing away and

this." and and you start typing away and you show the reference d um because

you show the reference d um because you're just so involved in it. It's it's

you're just so involved in it. It's it's in your brain no matter what you try and

in your brain no matter what you try and do. So, um but anyway, it was

do. So, um but anyway, it was interesting though because there are

interesting though because there are times where people would brings bring

times where people would brings bring stuff up and you're like, I've never

stuff up and you're like, I've never heard that and then it actually proves

heard that and then it actually proves to be true. It's like in this article,

to be true. It's like in this article, Forest did say this and you're like

Forest did say this and you're like you're blown away because you've spent

you're blown away because you've spent all this time documenting and making

all this time documenting and making sure you had word for word everything he

sure you had word for word everything he had said. So that's I am curious with

had said. So that's I am curious with Justin when he said, you know, with the

Justin when he said, you know, with the toys and things like that, I'm like,

toys and things like that, I'm like, it's possible. And if it was, I want to

it's possible. And if it was, I want to know where.

know where. Well, yeah. I mean, I' I'd love to know

Well, yeah. I mean, I' I'd love to know either way with certainty and and and

either way with certainty and and and what concerns me is that it's not easy

what concerns me is that it's not easy to find. Like I did a couple searches,

to find. Like I did a couple searches, it doesn't come up. So,

it doesn't come up. So, you know, it was either something

you know, it was either something exceedingly esoteric, some sort of

exceedingly esoteric, some sort of verbal interview at some point, or I'm

verbal interview at some point, or I'm full of it.

full of it. Well, we know you're full of it, but

Well, we know you're full of it, but that has nothing to do with what we're

that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

talking about. So, yeah, I'm sorry everyone for my

So, yeah, I'm sorry everyone for my breakdown. Uh, those are unexpected.

breakdown. Uh, those are unexpected. That's what happens when you when you

That's what happens when you when you paddle down the river denial to try and

paddle down the river denial to try and move forward in your life despite what's

move forward in your life despite what's happening. It's like you just head down

happening. It's like you just head down forward direction.

forward direction. So

So yeah,

yeah, awkward. Now I feel so embarrassed.

awkward. Now I feel so embarrassed. Geez.

Geez. No, no. I look everybody had a lot of

No, no. I look everybody had a lot of time and emotion invested in this, you

time and emotion invested in this, you know, and it's I mean it ended in an

know, and it's I mean it ended in an unsettling way on several fronts.

unsettling way on several fronts. Just wasn't I don't think anyone

Just wasn't I don't think anyone anticipated it ending the way it did. So

anticipated it ending the way it did. So it's it's been rough.

it's it's been rough. Yeah, that's true. Um, you know, it's

Yeah, that's true. Um, you know, it's funny though.

funny though. So, part of my research with Forest Fen

So, part of my research with Forest Fen was research in all the other armchair

was research in all the other armchair treasure hunts as well as Masquerade and

treasure hunts as well as Masquerade and stuff like that. I was very familiar

stuff like that. I was very familiar that armchair treasure hunts very often

that armchair treasure hunts very often end poorly, the big ones, right? We have

end poorly, the big ones, right? We have the what was it the world's greatest

the what was it the world's greatest treasure hunt which ended with the the

treasure hunt which ended with the the prize being stolen. We've got the

prize being stolen. We've got the masquerade which ended with someone

masquerade which ended with someone having insider information and solving

having insider information and solving it. You know, there's we have the golden

it. You know, there's we have the golden horse which was apparently never solved,

horse which was apparently never solved, but then the solution came out, but it

but then the solution came out, but it didn't make sense and it wasn't the

didn't make sense and it wasn't the real, you know, I mean, I knew going

real, you know, I mean, I knew going into this all the risks

into this all the risks and that was the hardest part. Every

and that was the hardest part. Every time I spent time working on it, I knew

time I spent time working on it, I knew all the risks, all the potential poor

all the risks, all the potential poor endings and I was like, I have to be

endings and I was like, I have to be okay with whatever poor ending might

okay with whatever poor ending might happen. and insider information and

happen. and insider information and solving never knowing to solve all these

solving never knowing to solve all these different things I was prepared for. And

different things I was prepared for. And yet when you spend five years of your

yet when you spend five years of your free time, you know, doing it, all of a

free time, you know, doing it, all of a sudden you're on a show on YouTube

sudden you're on a show on YouTube crying because you're looking through a

crying because you're looking through a book that reminds you of the work you

book that reminds you of the work you put into this and that there is a

put into this and that there is a potential you'll never know 100% what

potential you'll never know 100% what the solution was.

That's a good summary. I concur. And obviously that's going to it's sad.

And obviously that's going to it's sad. It's sad. There's no no uh there's no

It's sad. There's no no uh there's no other way to put that. It's sad that

other way to put that. It's sad that that is a potential uh that is a

that is a potential uh that is a potential and always was a potential

potential and always was a potential when I first started working on it.

That's uh that's taking that's for me like when I was interviewed for a radio

like when I was interviewed for a radio show. Um I could tell the person was

show. Um I could tell the person was trying to get me to say how I thought we

trying to get me to say how I thought we deserved an explanation,

deserved an explanation, right? I think I think he asked the

right? I think I think he asked the question like six different ways. And

question like six different ways. And every time I said I was like, "No, I I

every time I said I was like, "No, I I they don't I don't deserve anything. I

they don't I don't deserve anything. I don't I'm not owed anything. This is a

don't I'm not owed anything. This is a free country. I chose to do this. I

free country. I chose to do this. I chose to spend my time doing it knowing

chose to spend my time doing it knowing full well it might end in a way that is

full well it might end in a way that is going to make me sad.

going to make me sad. And I know that's taking personal

And I know that's taking personal responsibility to another level. But um

responsibility to another level. But um every time he asked me that, I would say

every time he asked me that, I would say I I can't give you what you want. I

I I can't give you what you want. I can't tell you that I'm I'm I'm upset

can't tell you that I'm I'm I'm upset because I'm owed something. I'm like I

because I'm owed something. I'm like I can't give you that because it's not

can't give you that because it's not right. I'm like, I'm not owed anything.

right. I'm like, I'm not owed anything. No one held a gun to my head. No one

No one held a gun to my head. No one forced me to do work on this. And I did

forced me to do work on this. And I did the research and I knew armchair

the research and I knew armchair treasure hunts can end in a way that it

treasure hunts can end in a way that it would make me cry.

would make me cry. So, I mean, I like I say, I know that's

So, I mean, I like I say, I know that's taking personal responsibility to

taking personal responsibility to another level, but that's how I was

another level, but that's how I was raised. You know what I mean? It's like

raised. You know what I mean? It's like I if if you choose to take on too much

I if if you choose to take on too much in life and life shits on you, that's

in life and life shits on you, that's your responsibility. If you choose to do

your responsibility. If you choose to do a YouTube show and people make fun of

a YouTube show and people make fun of you,

you, how can you not expect that, right?

how can you not expect that, right? Those kinds of things. I'm like, uh, you

Those kinds of things. I'm like, uh, you know, it doesn't take a genius to see

know, it doesn't take a genius to see what's happening, choose your path, and

what's happening, choose your path, and then be surprised at how it ends. It's

then be surprised at how it ends. It's like, no, I I knew that was a

like, no, I I knew that was a possibility. It doesn't mean it doesn't

possibility. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt any less.

It doesn't make make it mean that I don't cry on YouTube

don't cry on YouTube live. But at the same time, I can't

live. But at the same time, I can't blame anybody for it. I chose to do it.

blame anybody for it. I chose to do it. Yeah.

[Music] Was that a downer for everyone in chat?

personal responsibility. The most boring thing ever.

thing ever. No one wants to hear about

No one wants to hear about responsibility.

responsibility. No.

No. No.

No. But seriously, that I mean that's how I

But seriously, that I mean that's how I was raised. Um you know when I would

was raised. Um you know when I would when I would go to my mom and be like,

when I would go to my mom and be like, "Oh my god, something happened. I'm so

"Oh my god, something happened. I'm so sad." And she would be like, "Did you

sad." And she would be like, "Did you choose to do it?" And I'd be like,

choose to do it?" And I'd be like, "Yeah." She goes, "Well, then deal with

"Yeah." She goes, "Well, then deal with it or don't do it."

it or don't do it." And I'm like, "Oh, you're so mean."

But but obviously in real life then I'm like, "Thank you for the lesson."

like, "Thank you for the lesson." Because um it's things like that that

Because um it's things like that that help me move on a lot faster.

Oh, please somebody start talking. Well, it is it is interesting that um

Well, it is it is interesting that um that Horus started a treasure hunt

that Horus started a treasure hunt that

that is un unlike any other and the the

is un unlike any other and the the personal element, the fact that I mean

personal element, the fact that I mean I don't know I don't know if we're ever

I don't know I don't know if we're ever going to have any others like this where

going to have any others like this where people

people um

um you know want to know the woman or man

you know want to know the woman or man who launched it and develop a

who launched it and develop a relationship with him or her and and and

relationship with him or her and and and there's admiration and I mean the way it

there's admiration and I mean the way it was tied in with his personal story and

was tied in with his personal story and you know I mean it

you know I mean it it is um

it is um he you know he really did want to share

he you know he really did want to share the thrill of the chase and it's

the thrill of the chase and it's actually an important

actually an important like psychological principle to

like psychological principle to understand

understand in your own life. This idea of

in your own life. This idea of wanting and achieving and and the

wanting and achieving and and the disappointment that can come when you

disappointment that can come when you actually get something and how you can

actually get something and how you can sometimes be happier when you are

sometimes be happier when you are striving and working for something. And

striving and working for something. And um I mean that's that's the kind of

um I mean that's that's the kind of stuff that I started to think about in

stuff that I started to think about in middle age.

middle age. And um there really is something to

And um there really is something to that. It's not it doesn't have to

that. It's not it doesn't have to necessarily be specifically tied to like

necessarily be specifically tied to like collecting relics or whatever. It can be

collecting relics or whatever. It can be broader than that, but um

broader than that, but um that's very important. And then the idea

that's very important. And then the idea that that was such an important part of

that that was such an important part of his life and we were drawn in to know

his life and we were drawn in to know this

this eccentric

eccentric unusual person who looked at life in an

unusual person who looked at life in an interesting way and and and uh you know

interesting way and and and uh you know I don't know it's it's uh I don't think

I don't know it's it's uh I don't think I don't think you can we're never going

I don't think you can we're never going to have another treasure hunt like this.

to have another treasure hunt like this. I mean, we're going to have lots of

I mean, we're going to have lots of we're going to have lots of puzzles,

we're going to have lots of puzzles, mazes to go through, left or right, but

mazes to go through, left or right, but something so personal, I I think that's

something so personal, I I think that's it's, you know, it's really it's really

it's, you know, it's really it's really unusual.

unusual. 15 years, right? A little bit more.

Been not long. It has been a long time. There's I mean I just I'm amazed with

There's I mean I just I'm amazed with just how personal it actually was. You

just how personal it actually was. You know that you know with most of these

know that you know with most of these it's like treasures from you know hidden

it's like treasures from you know hidden treasure from 300 years ago and you read

treasure from 300 years ago and you read about the dude and it's like well you

about the dude and it's like well you know maybe this happened maybe I'll go

know maybe this happened maybe I'll go search for it but like this was the here

search for it but like this was the here and now. It was a totally different

and now. It was a totally different ballgame.

What about you, Cynthia? About what? What was the question?

Have you ever heard of TTOC? [Laughter]

[Laughter] Yeah, I think I have at least three, if

Yeah, I think I have at least three, if not four on my shelf.

H there are some very sweet things from chat. Jeep girl Jodie again. Hugs to

chat. Jeep girl Jodie again. Hugs to you, Jeep girl Jodie. High fives, Amy.

you, Jeep girl Jodie. High fives, Amy. We keep it going, sister.

Um, Alan K says, "I still email Forest. I miss him and I never met him."

I miss him and I never met him." Um, very important. Just says, "Amy

Um, very important. Just says, "Amy seeks."

seeks." Uh, Rooster says, "Don't feel awkward.

Uh, Rooster says, "Don't feel awkward. Everyone feels sad that it's over." Um,

Everyone feels sad that it's over." Um, DD says, "Jack knows that he is not the

DD says, "Jack knows that he is not the first person other than Forest to have

first person other than Forest to have lifted the lid and viewed its contents.

lifted the lid and viewed its contents. He posted interview forest reveal his

He posted interview forest reveal his insight to another finder. Um Andy

insight to another finder. Um Andy Mootman. Oh, that's a fun name. Mootman.

Mootman. Oh, that's a fun name. Mootman. Uh did the panel members each find a

Uh did the panel members each find a location that they would consider their

location that they would consider their special location even if it was not the

special location even if it was not the same as Forest Fen's special location?

Justin, yes. Cynthia, yes. that not really. Um I mean

not really. Um I mean I I found some beautiful places but not

I I found some beautiful places but not like that maybe.

like that maybe. Cynthia, what were you think?

Cynthia, what were you think? What was the question? What are you

What was the question? What are you saying that that we found a special

saying that that we found a special place as we were searching? Is that what

place as we were searching? Is that what you mean?

you mean? I'm one for you. One that you now feel

I'm one for you. One that you now feel special. Isn't that what you meant, Amy?

special. Isn't that what you meant, Amy? I think so. Let me reread.

I think so. Let me reread. Yeah. So he says, "Did the panel members

Yeah. So he says, "Did the panel members each find a location that they would

each find a location that they would consider their special location even if

consider their special location even if it was not the same as Forest's special

it was not the same as Forest's special location?"

location?" No, I

No, I No, my special SP um

No, my special SP um you know pre precedes the the chase.

you know pre precedes the the chase. Oh,

Oh, and where is that? Can you send us a GPS

and where is that? Can you send us a GPS location?

I'm asking for a friend. Yeah, I bet.

Yeah, I bet. So, are you saying that you have a a

So, are you saying that you have a a place in the mountains that's special to

place in the mountains that's special to you? Were you going to tie that into

you? Were you going to tie that into your treasure hunt?

Boom. Just What state is that in, Dustin?

What state is that in, Dustin? What state is that special place?

What state is that special place? You know, there I

You know, there I I've known for a long time um where I

I've known for a long time um where I would hide something if I ever chose to

would hide something if I ever chose to do it.

do it. I've never Wow. You and Forest the only

I've never Wow. You and Forest the only two people I've ever heard of who had a

two people I've ever heard of who had a place like this. That's amazing.

place like this. That's amazing. That's pretty.

That's pretty. No, I'm sure everybody has

No, I'm sure everybody has I don't have a place like that. No.

I don't have a place like that. No. Oh,

I don't think people walk around with potential hiding spots.

potential hiding spots. in case I ever launch a treasure hunt.

in case I ever launch a treasure hunt. I was a strange kid. Like I actually

I was a strange kid. Like I actually would

would make my own treasure hunts and I would

make my own treasure hunts and I would know where the location was at, but I

know where the location was at, but I just found it fun to go through the

just found it fun to go through the process of the clues to get to the spot

process of the clues to get to the spot that I already knew just because I

that I already knew just because I thought it was a cool concept. Like it's

thought it was a cool concept. Like it's just a strange thing. Yeah,

just a strange thing. Yeah, that's awesome.

that's awesome. Forest everybody.

Forest everybody. Yeah,

Yeah, there will never be another forest fan.

It's hard when Yeah, I mean the it took him 15 years to come up with

it took him 15 years to come up with what he did and the other hunts are

what he did and the other hunts are really fun and everything, but yeah, it

really fun and everything, but yeah, it does seem like a pretty darn toot and

does seem like a pretty darn toot and unique thing. But Justin, honestly, the

unique thing. But Justin, honestly, the more I learn about who you are as a

more I learn about who you are as a person, the more I am excited about the

person, the more I am excited about the potential that you might put another

potential that you might put another hunt on that you might put a hunt on

hunt on that you might put a hunt on another one.

another one. No, you're you're overselling me here.

No, you're you're overselling me here. That's

That's just another dude

just another dude of this something that Jack has talked

of this something that Jack has talked about. He's talked about uh selling the

about. He's talked about uh selling the treasure chest uh testing the market

treasure chest uh testing the market uh peace meal versus whole all of that.

uh peace meal versus whole all of that. Is is there anybody I mean I don't know

Is is there anybody I mean I don't know uh is there is there anybody in the

uh is there is there anybody in the chase who's wealthy enough to buy this

chase who's wealthy enough to buy this thing?

I mean, who's got who's got $3 million sitting sitting around? They can just

sitting sitting around? They can just write a check. Anybody?

write a check. Anybody? Well, I mean, I I think that if if it

Well, I mean, I I think that if if it came up for auction, like I I would be

came up for auction, like I I would be compelled to bid, but it's it's

compelled to bid, but it's it's impossible to know how much this thing

impossible to know how much this thing is going to go for. I mean, I wouldn't

is going to go for. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes for, you know,

be surprised if it goes for, you know, maybe even an order, well, not an order

maybe even an order, well, not an order of magnitude, but considerably more than

of magnitude, but considerably more than the appraised value just because of what

the appraised value just because of what it means, what it signifies. So, I don't

it means, what it signifies. So, I don't know. I mean, it's it's going to I think

know. I mean, it's it's going to I think it's just it's really hard to say what

it's just it's really hard to say what it's going to go for at auction.

it's going to go for at auction. Yeah. I mean, the the chase we

Yeah. I mean, the the chase we everybody's welcome. So, we have people,

everybody's welcome. So, we have people, you know, struggling to pay rent, right?

you know, struggling to pay rent, right? pay paycheck to paycheck

pay paycheck to paycheck and then we've got some folks who are

and then we've got some folks who are very wealthy. I just wondered like

very wealthy. I just wondered like do we have people in the chase that we

do we have people in the chase that we know who could yeah they could part with

know who could yeah they could part with $3 million no problem or is it going to

$3 million no problem or is it going to go to somebody we've never heard of in

go to somebody we've never heard of in uh in whatever you know

uh in whatever you know like AGK always says the oligarch in uh

like AGK always says the oligarch in uh Dubai.

Dubai. Yeah. You're like, "Oh, a Dubai prince

Yeah. You're like, "Oh, a Dubai prince just bought it." Okay. All right.

just bought it." Okay. All right. I'm going to have to I'm going to have

I'm going to have to I'm going to have to make friends with any potential Dubai

to make friends with any potential Dubai princesses.

princesses. Princesses too. Anyway, either one. Just

Princesses too. Anyway, either one. Just whoever. So that just in case. That was

whoever. So that just in case. That was what always confused me because I I I

what always confused me because I I I mean if you're not familiar with what

mean if you're not familiar with what the chase was and you have a lot of

the chase was and you have a lot of money, why would you bid a lot of money

money, why would you bid a lot of money on it?

on it? There's a guy there's a guy in India

There's a guy there's a guy in India that just loves um I guess western stuff

that just loves um I guess western stuff from the US and he's the one that's been

from the US and he's the one that's been buying he's the one that bought the doll

buying he's the one that bought the doll dolls chaos and embroidery. This guy's

dolls chaos and embroidery. This guy's been buying fence stuff for years

been buying fence stuff for years and he lives in India. I can't remember

and he lives in India. I can't remember his name. So this guy I mean I bet for

his name. So this guy I mean I bet for him I I would be very surprised if

him I I would be very surprised if I mean yes I know of more than one

I mean yes I know of more than one person in the search community who would

person in the search community who would let's say it starts at a million bucks I

let's say it starts at a million bucks I can't imagine it would go for less than

can't imagine it would go for less than that who there's more than one how you

that who there's more than one how you will ever be able to outbid

will ever be able to outbid someone like this guy in India I would

someone like this guy in India I would be so surprised because he He knows

be so surprised because he He knows Force. He's been working with Force and

Force. He's been working with Force and collecting fence stuff for years to to

collecting fence stuff for years to to outbid that guy. Good luck. But I mean,

outbid that guy. Good luck. But I mean, maybe the guy doesn't care at all

maybe the guy doesn't care at all because it's not western stuff, per se,

because it's not western stuff, per se, but those dolls weren't western either.

but those dolls weren't western either. So, embroidery and chaos were sold to an

So, embroidery and chaos were sold to an Indian. Um,

Indian. Um, it's a man that it's a rich billionaire

it's a man that it's a rich billionaire guy that lives in India that buys fence

guy that lives in India that buys fence stuff. I had no idea.

stuff. I had no idea. Huh.

Huh. So, oh shoot. So, if that went up for

So, oh shoot. So, if that went up for auction and he wanted it. So, the Indian

auction and he wanted it. So, the Indian guy though is more about western art as

guy though is more about western art as opposed to the forest ven legend.

opposed to the forest ven legend. Yeah. But, but that's what I'm just

Yeah. But, but that's what I'm just saying. Chaos and embroidery had nothing

saying. Chaos and embroidery had nothing to do with the Old West or Cowboys and

to do with the Old West or Cowboys and Indians or any of the American West. the

Indians or any of the American West. the stuff that he liked to collect, they

stuff that he liked to collect, they were very unique. They weren't in that

were very unique. They weren't in that category and he he bought them. So, I

category and he he bought them. So, I mean, I would just think that it would

mean, I would just think that it would be really hard for a normal person to

be really hard for a normal person to compete with a multi-millionaire or a

compete with a multi-millionaire or a billionaire.

billionaire. That's just my opinion. I don't know.

That's just my opinion. I don't know. It's It's so funny because it's just so

It's It's so funny because it's just so hard to imagine that a person like that

hard to imagine that a person like that exists, right? a billionaire billionaire

exists, right? a billionaire billionaire alone just

alone just it just I can't comprehend it right I'm

it just I can't comprehend it right I'm like uh it's so hard and then to to

like uh it's so hard and then to to learn that there's there's at least one

learn that there's there's at least one billionaire familiar with forest van and

billionaire familiar with forest van and the whole genre

the whole genre I mean that I that would be sad it would

I mean that I that would be sad it would be sad if the chest went to someone who

be sad if the chest went to someone who would then covet it in their own little

would then covet it in their own little area and we'd never get any chance to

area and we'd never get any chance to see it or purchase is a part of it or

see it or purchase is a part of it or something like that.

something like that. But it sounds but it sound the way the

But it sounds but it sound the way the wording is, it's a little confusing like

wording is, it's a little confusing like yeah, how do you how do you sell it but

yeah, how do you how do you sell it but also display it? So, it sounds like

also display it? So, it sounds like there's some stipulation like he's only

there's some stipulation like he's only going to sell it if

going to sell it if you have to whatever put it in the Cody

you have to whatever put it in the Cody Museum for two years or you have to, you

Museum for two years or you have to, you know, display it in the Denver Museum

know, display it in the Denver Museum for one year or whatever it is like

for one year or whatever it is like to try and support

to try and support say it's yours on the plaque and you're

say it's yours on the plaque and you're going to take it in a year, but it it

going to take it in a year, but it it has to be there to fulfill you know why

has to be there to fulfill you know why I I don't know any other way to

I I don't know any other way to understand the language

understand the language uh in the in the various writings that

uh in the in the various writings that came out last week. It's sold and it's

came out last week. It's sold and it's displayed.

displayed. That makes sense.

That makes sense. I mean, the Cody Museum is what we're

I mean, the Cody Museum is what we're guessing is where Forest wanted it to

guessing is where Forest wanted it to end up. Is that correct?

end up. Is that correct? It's a natural.

It's a natural. Yeah, that's what we're guessing. Only

Yeah, that's what we're guessing. Only Jack would know. Someone should ask him

Jack would know. Someone should ask him that question.

that question. Well, he said he didn't want to say it

Well, he said he didn't want to say it in

in Okay. So, he probably wouldn't answer

Okay. So, he probably wouldn't answer it. And you know, Forest mentioned the

it. And you know, Forest mentioned the Smithsonian, but I think he was just

Smithsonian, but I think he was just sort of speaking like,

sort of speaking like, wouldn't it be great a thousand years

wouldn't it be great a thousand years from now if the Smithsonian yada yada,

from now if the Smithsonian yada yada, but it seems like his uh connection to

but it seems like his uh connection to the Cody Museum makes that a natural

the Cody Museum makes that a natural spot. But yeah, so it would be like

spot. But yeah, so it would be like because the finder said Forest was going

because the finder said Forest was going to help him arrange something and we

to help him arrange something and we know that Forest was very tightly

know that Forest was very tightly connected to Cody and mildly connected

connected to Cody and mildly connected to the Denver Museum, but it was really

to the Denver Museum, but it was really the Cody Museum that he had the

the Cody Museum that he had the connection with that he could have

connection with that he could have helped arrange for the finder to do

helped arrange for the finder to do something, right?

something, right? Um he was I he was in the process or

Um he was I he was in the process or somehow involved or was hoping to help

somehow involved or was hoping to help with a private sale. I think that's what

with a private sale. I think that's what the statement says.

the statement says. Uh, and then it that that's all we sort

Uh, and then it that that's all we sort of know.

of know. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. That sounds about right. I actually

Yep. That sounds about right. I actually have to jump off, guys. I got to get up

have to jump off, guys. I got to get up fairly early, so I'm gonna hop off.

fairly early, so I'm gonna hop off. Jump off, too. It's very late.

Jump off, too. It's very late. Yeah, me too. Time to call the night.

Yeah, me too. Time to call the night. I didn't mean to start an Exodus. Come

I didn't mean to start an Exodus. Come on. That's

on. That's No, that's okay. No, this was only

No, that's okay. No, this was only supposed to be like an hour or two hours

supposed to be like an hour or two hours long because I was up till 2:30 last

long because I was up till 2:30 last night, right? So, I'm just like, "No,

night, right? So, I'm just like, "No, no, no. This is gonna be a really short

no, no. This is gonna be a really short show." I think I say that every show and

show." I think I say that every show and then we get started talking and and

then we get started talking and and somebody cries and it keeps going.

It was a good show. Thanks for having me on.

on. Thank you, Amy.

Thank you, Amy. Thanks for coming on, you guys. It was a

Thanks for coming on, you guys. It was a really, really great discussion. And

really, really great discussion. And Matt, I am really looking forward to the

Matt, I am really looking forward to the video um whenever it gets uh finished.

video um whenever it gets uh finished. Your analysis always appreciated.

Your analysis always appreciated. Now I have to do it.

Now I have to do it. Committed now.

Committed now. Blame Cynthia. Blame Cynthia.

Blame Cynthia. Blame Cynthia. Actually, I think blame Justin maybe.

Actually, I think blame Justin maybe. Excuse me.

Excuse me. I thought you and I had a discussion

I thought you and I had a discussion about Matt doing a video.

about Matt doing a video. I I may have prodded Cynthia to prod

I I may have prodded Cynthia to prod you. Yeah. Well, no.

you. Yeah. Well, no. Justin, you prodded me first and then

Justin, you prodded me first and then five minutes later, Cynthia was

five minutes later, Cynthia was proddding me, so I was able to put two

proddding me, so I was able to put two together.

together. Total coincidence, Matt.

Yeah, that's my cue to exit stage left. Good

that's my cue to exit stage left. Good night, guys.

night, guys. Good night. Good night.

Good night. Good night. Good night, you guys.

Good night, you guys. Don't forget to like and subscribe. This

Don't forget to like and subscribe. This this episode is sponsored by Tub

this episode is sponsored by Tub Thumpers. Look for them as far as the

Thumpers. Look for them as far as the winners for the chapter 4 treasure hunt.

Everybody, thanks for joining us. Uh great discussion. Sorry for the tears.

great discussion. Sorry for the tears. And uh I look forward to seeing you all

And uh I look forward to seeing you all on the next chat whenever that is.

on the next chat whenever that is. Sleep sweet everybody. Sleep sweet and

Sleep sweet everybody. Sleep sweet and have a wonderful night and keep it

have a wonderful night and keep it positive as best you can. It's hard

positive as best you can. It's hard sometimes. All right, good night

sometimes. All right, good night everybody. Love you guys so much. Bye

everybody. Love you guys so much. Bye bye.

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